I have heard about the new Verizon FIOS internet and TV services being rolled out across the country. My question is since they are using fiber optics to transmit their signal and with giving them additional bandwidth, will Comcast be ready to compete with them for pure channel capacity?

I might even go back to SBC if they did this.

<shudders>

It's way too soon to tell.

If the pipe is big enough, which it should be, then it's a matter of what it's filled with.

I think that cable companies now run their own fiber into your neighborhood. I don't think that they are going to be too bad off.

The ones I would worry about would be those who are going to depend on that old copper pair to deliver that last mile of service. I'd much rather have a nice fat RG-11 going into the house than a twisted pair.

Most cable companies bring the fiber to a node that serves about 100 homes. Depending on your area density, that could be close or far from your house. Either way, it wouldn't take a complete plant upgrade for cable to offer a similar product. Plus, new cable technology (docsis 3.0) is enabling a large amount of bandwidth to the customer.

I do agree FIOS is finally a good alternative to cable. Hopefully with competition they will both improve their product.

I think that cable companies now run their own fiber into your neighborhood. I don't think that they are going to be too bad off.

The ones I would worry about would be those who are going to depend on that old copper pair to deliver that last mile of service. I'd much rather have a nice fat RG-11 going into the house than a twisted pair.



LOL. Trust me when I say the plant for that last mile is NOT twisted

I have heard about the new Verizon FIOS internet and TV services being rolled out across the country. My question is since they are using fiber optics to transmit their signal and with giving them additional bandwidth, will Comcast be ready to compete with them for pure channel capacity?

They really don't have to yet, it will be years and years and years before FIOS has the penetration that cable has. Plus, FIOS is running into regulatory issues sometimes on a franchise by franchise rate.

RG11??? wtf? my whole house is wired for RG6. i have to reqire all that??? not to mention get new cable for the inside cabling? man.... that makes me upset

Posts here within the past month outlined plans by cable companies to start 'switched broadcast' selection of channels. Time Warner, supposedly, will start it shortly and other large companies must be considering it, too. (See background article (http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2005/0305/03a.htm)). Such switched channel selection, something like video on demand (VOD) but with no hard-disk head-end drives, would let lower-bandwidth head ends deliver huge channel capacities without upgrading to 860+ MHz bandwidths. Instead of currently tuning channels from a complete menu instantly available at each subscriber's STB, the switched-broadcast technique tunes channels only available at local hubs or head ends.

Widely accessed channels, it appears, would still be sent to each STB all the time. There's no reason fiber-to-the-home (or curb) teleco installations couldn't use the same technique. But an all-fiber setup should be able to deliver all channels directly (and constantly) to each STB. -- John

RG11??? wtf? my whole house is wired for RG6. i have to reqire all that??? not to mention get new cable for the inside cabling? man.... that makes me upset

He's talking about the cable to the house - not cabling within the house.

hehe, I don't think I'd want RG-11 in the house, that stuff is thick.

RG-11 is a thicker coax which is used outside of the house by the cable co. You would not ever rewire your house with RG-11 internally.

If I were able to choose FiOS or Comast today, FiOS would get the nod. I have just never had a good experience with Comcast. I think the top two players will soon be Verizon and Directv. I kind of like having satellite, but I might have to give FiOS a spin when it is available.

and every channel will be cropped...

Most cable companies bring the fiber to a node that serves about 100 homes.I think the current average node size is more in the 250-500 range ... yes there are certainly some plants that have hit 100 homes per node ... but that still seems pretty rare. There are also still some plants at 1000 homes per node.

But yes, most people seem to forget that the F in HFC stands for Fiber. Hybrid Fiber Coax ... fiber to the node ... then coax to the house.

Do we have to pay more after 7PM for this?

Right now it's hard to say which one to get since FIOS is not availabel in themajority of the markets and they are not really delivering anything yet. Once it's rolled out and working then the comparasions can begin.

Oh ... and according to most articles ... initial FiosTV roll-outs will pretty much have the exact same bandwidth and channel capacity as cable ... they are using an RF overlay approach.

Everything gets RF modulated (ie, NTSC / QAM like cable ... or you could even do QPSK / 8PSK like dbs) and sent down the fiber on a particular wavelength. The ONT (box that goes on the side of your house) converts that light back to RF ... and the signal is distributed through your house via coax.

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/general/2004/10/26/generalprimemedia_2004_10_26_eng-primemedia_eng-primemedia_113013_9170893455375305453.html?pThe deal, which includes both set-top boxes and unspecified central office equipment, also confirms that Verizon will use an RF overlay strategy for video as opposed to converting those signals to an IP format. A Verizon spokesman said today that the company isnt talking full details on its video service yet, but part of the decision comes from the carriers desire to take advantage of the economics of RF technology.

"The steps here are logical for us," he said. "This will allow us to put full cable TV type video on the fiber. Its simply a business decision. The video component of this doesnt even compete for space with data."

Most of the equipment is actually the latest iteration of gear from Next Level Communications, which Motorola acquired last year. Next Level was among the early leaders in telco video but was unable to get larger carriers to buy in to the system in part because much of it was proprietary.

Under the architecture Verizon is planning, RF video will be sent from a national head end located in Florida through a local CO and over the fiber network to optical network terminal from AFC Communications that sits on the side of the house. From there, it will connect to existing in-home coax through a traditional RF connector.
http://www.screenplaysmag.com/sp305m.html
The local fare along with some of the nationally distributed content will be delivered in analog as well as digital format, with all content modulated to RF at 50 to 870 MHz onto 256 QAM carriers and sent out at the 1550 nanometer wavelength.http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=61801&site=lightreading
Verizon's first rollout of video services is expected to occur sometime next year, and the company has said it will first offer an RF-based video service, equivalent to what is now offered by cable companies. The FTTP RFP the carrier issued -- along with SBC Communications Inc. (NYSE: SBC - message board) and BellSouth Corp. (NYSE: BLS - message board) -- in June 2003 even spelled out a video delivery system that would use, "to the extent possible, standard off-the-shelf CATV video equipment."

The RFP went on to say that the video distribution technique planned "is a CATV-like system."Etc.

Goggle - Verizon Fios "RF OVerlay"

So your video is eventually going to be analog NTSC and 256 QAM in the 50-870MHz spectrum ... basically just like cable TV on a 860MHz plant. Cable does also have to carry voice and data in that same space ... while Verizon isn't ... those get offloaded to seperate wavelengths. So that's a little bit of bandwidth savings.

But basically ... initially ... same as cable. It'll be interesting to see how many (bandwidth-hogging ... but no STB needed) analog channels Verizon carries.

Now ... when Verizon starts delivering IPTV, VOD, etc ... that'll be where things get interesting ... and you'll get some insight on where they might be headed. Of course Verizon's FTTH gives you more options than cable's FTTN ... it'll be interesting to see if Verizon finds a way to (economically) take advantage of that.

Potential trouble looms for SBC's Net-based TV

By Leslie Cauley USA TODAY

NEW YORK — SBC Communications, which promised to launch its much-ballyhooed Internet-based TV service later this year, will almost certainly have to delay a commercial rollout until at least 2006, some analysts say.

A potential trouble spot is Microsoft's IPTV software platform, still in development. That software will form the heart of the operating system for SBC's entire video network, making it critical to the project
.
The problem? There's a good chance Microsoft won't be able to deliver on the aggressive timetables set by SBC. One other carrier, Swisscom of Switzerland, recently announced delays of its IPTV project because of technology problems. Swisscom is using the same vendors, Microsoft and Alcatel, that SBC is, notes analyst John Hodulik of UBS Investment Research.

"We believe SBC's commercial launch of IPTV could also be pushed back into 2006 from its original target of fourth-quarter 2005," Hodulik wrote in a recent note to clients.

Rick Thompson, an analyst at Heavy Reading, a market research firm, says it could take even longer. "It's possible they might roll out in '06, but what that means to me is a few hundred or a few thousand in select markets, but realistically I expect '07 to '08 to be the service phase."

Any delay would be a setback for SBC, which is pouring billions into its IPTV efforts. It comes as the company is preparing to acquire AT&T. With revenue from local and long-distance service falling, SBC is rushing into the TV business as a way to offset those declines.

A delay in deployment "will hurt them with Wall Street, hurt them with regulators and hurt their stock price," says analyst Adi Kishore of Yankee Group.

SBC insists that things are on track. Lea Ann Champion, who's overseeing SBC's IPTV deployment, notes Microsoft's IPTV software is "working in the lab." Still, she concedes, "We still have a long way to go to get into the marketplace."

Moshe Lichtman, who is heading Microsoft's IPTV effort, acknowledges that things aren't coming together as fast as the company expected. The "eco-system" — industry parlance for the gear and software that must mesh flawlessly for IPTV to fly — is a concern, he says. "We are a little bit behind where we all thought the eco-system would be," he says.

SBC last year selected Microsoft as its sole vendor for supplying it with IPTV software. At the time, SBC said it planned to begin field trials in mid-2005 and deploy commercial services in late 2005.

SBC in March changed the schedule: It now plans to begin field trials in the third quarter and do a limited commercial launch later this year, ramping up in 2006. It is still planning to make its IP service available to 18 million homes by mid-2008.

Kishore says of SBC's deployment schedule: "I would characterize it as a technology gamble to some extent."

Why? Among other things, Kishore points out, Microsoft is working with a range of vendors that have never worked together before and have limited video experience.

My wife's parents just got Verizon fiber-to-the-door for internet access. They now get 13,000 down/2800 up(!!!) on BroadbandReports.com!

didn't Verizon also agree to use the MS IPTV ? If so, FIOS may not be available as soon as we may want nor think

Potential trouble looms for SBC's Net-based TV

By Leslie Cauley USA TODAY

NEW YORK — SBC Communications, which promised to launch its much-ballyhooed Internet-based TV service later this year, will almost certainly have to delay a commercial rollout until at least 2006, some analysts say.

A potential trouble spot is Microsoft's IPTV software platform, still in development. That software will form the heart of the operating system for SBC's entire video network, making it critical to the project


You would think a company like SBC would know not to depend on the King of Vaporware, Microsoft...I laughed my butt off reading this article...come on, they really thought Microsoft was going to able to commit to a timetable...?!?! Silly people... :rolleyes: :D

hehe, I don't think I'd want RG-11 in the house, that stuff is thick.

RG-11 is a thicker coax which is used outside of the house by the cable co. You would not ever rewire your house with RG-11 internally.

I'm just curious, does anyone know anyone who's actually wired inside the house with RG-11? Would it make that much of a difference?

I'm not sure if verizon will be using mpeg4 compession initially but if they are they can blow cable away with the amout of vod & HD channels they can offer even without doing IPTV. If you do some quick math a 870mhz sytem can handle 145 analog channels so lets say they keep 45 channels in analog for legacy perposes. that leaves 100 channels. Let say they carry every RSNHD and general HD channel available being very librial make it 100 HD channels. That will take up the space of 50 analog channels that leaves 50 analog channels. Using mepg2 compession they can offer 10-12 digital channels in the space of one analog channel. 12 * 50 thats 750 digital channels. Now that more than enough for lots of VOD and carry just about every channel available. If they use mpeg4 they can double those numbers to 200HD if ever available and 1500 digital channels. So they have a major advantage on cable companies off the bat. Not to mention they won't have to put analog decoders in any of there boxes since everything will be digital. Now add IPTV into the mix down the line which will give them more bandwidth savings . So lets say every channel decided to do HD next year. They would have the bandwidth to add them if they wanted.

I'm just curious, does anyone know anyone who's actually wired inside the house with RG-11? Would it make that much of a difference?

I didn't have it run throughout my house, but I did run some entering my house from an OTA antenna that was several hundred feet away from my house. I really don't think it would be physically possbible to install it in walls. I don't think you could make the bends in < 4" that you would need to do inside a wall to land it on the back of a wall plate jack. As mentioned above it is thick and really stiff compared to any type of RG6 I have dealt with.

I also think there would be no noticible difference between RG6 & RG11 until you got several hundred feet away from the source. We will sometimes use RG11 in school buildings as a feeder line and branch off to the rooms from that.

Check this one out. IF this is true this is going to be HUGE.

Fios to carry every HD channell available?

I wish I lived in a FIOS area.

http://www.******.com/db23p

Put url and 123 together for the domain name above.

David if I wanted to post it here I would have, but it is copyrighted work. Please stop the double standards.

Hasn't Verizon has been saying all along that FIOS would offer every national HD package?

Hasn't Verizon has been saying all along that FIOS would offer every national HD package?

No as a matter of fact they haven't said they would carry every HD channel. They did however say that they would carry more HDTV channels than other providers. Still having more and having all IMO are two very different things. For example Voom had way more but still not all.

Fred it is more then just that. :)

I have been getting a lot of good info fed to me today, this is really exciting stuff.

If Cablevision seels VOOM to Veriuzon for use in FIOS, it could badly damage its own long-term cable income, according to this story from Forbes:

Cablevision May Blame It On FiOS

David Ng Forbes.com

Credit Suisse First Boston said Cablevision remains the operator the most at risk from the introduction of FiOS television by Verizon Communications.

"Cablevision is clearly the most at risk to FiOS in the near-term and likely the long-term among the public cable and satellite companies," CSFB said.

Verizon has said it plans to build to nearly 20 million homes, or 60% of its footprint, by 2010. Cablevision tops the list of operators at risk with an overlap of 19% of its homes passed, according to CSFB.

The research firm estimates that 4% of Comcast and 4% of Time Warner Cable subscribers are exposed to Verizon's announced FiOS builds. In the satellite sector, 3% of DirecTV and 2% of Echostar subscribers are exposed, according to the research firm.

"Our pricing comparison indicates that Verizon's video plans offer greater value at all segments of the market versus its cable competitors and at the high end of the market versus satellite competitors," CSFB said.

However, the research firm said Verizon's offer appears in line with the competitions' offerings when looking at a bundle package of unlimited voice, mid-tier video and broadband of at least 3MB downstream.

http://www.forbes.com/2005/09/22/verizon-cablevision-television-fios-0922markets03_print.html

Isn't Rainbow a separate company yet?

Interesting.

From all the people I have spoken with the VOOM 32 on FIOS is a go. Who knows Maybe Cablevision will sell out to Verizon.

Its a very interesting time we live in. :)

Dish Network is about to kick up HD a bunch too, and I am working on that stuff now. :)

Dish better kick it up at least bunch or it is about to get left in the dust by digital cable, FiOS (and its other telephone company iterations), and DirecTV.

Isn't Rainbow a separate company yet?

Is any company really seperate anymore these days.

Dish better kick it up at least bunch or it is about to get left in the dust by digital cable, FiOS (and its other telephone company iterations), and DirecTV.

I agree and I also must add that these next 5 years might be the best ever TV years for customers. So many companies getting into the game with pricing and content wars. Oh fun times are ahead of us oh yes they are.

I for one can't wait and its about time we consumers could have companies fighting tooth and nail for our business like most other industries.

either way verizon ig going to take over the market imo.... who really would want dish or directv or cable if you can get more channels for cheaper with verizon? I know as soon as its ready in my area im jumping on board.

Dish better kick it up at least bunch or it is about to get left in the dust by digital cable, FiOS (and its other telephone company iterations), and DirecTV.

Agreed. The partial Voom package isnt enough. FIOS and SBC coming along with the direct HD punch set to happen next year with D*, Dish Network better get going. A wait and see approach will not serve them well. 2004 and early was for early adopters. You are either HD now or plan to be served!

Great news (rumor)!!

either way verizon ig going to take over the market imo.... who really would want dish or directv or cable if you can get more channels for cheaper with verizon? I know as soon as its ready in my area im jumping on board.

I was reading in the WSJ: It's not just Verizon, but a whole bunch of these companies like SBC, Adelphia, and others are going to be putting out very simillar services.

It's like one forumer asked a few posts up: Is there anything as a seperate company anymore?

No, not really.

It's going to be fascinating as hell to watch this all unfold. I'm tantalized!

either way verizon ig going to take over the market imo.... who really would want dish or directv or cable if you can get more channels for cheaper with verizon? I know as soon as its ready in my area im jumping on board.

Don't ever count out satellite because you never know what they might do to reduce their drawbacks and to entice customers towards them. Money always has a way of enticing customers one way or another. The more choice we have the better. Also as long as say DirecTV has Murdock and NFL Sunday Ticket they won't be going anywhere.

According to inside sources, a very high percentage of SBS technical capabilities are working on their fiber initiative.

It's going to be fascinating as hell to watch this all unfold. I'm tantalized!

I'd be more excited if my local cable company wasn't also my local phone company with a 1 or 2 county territory. :(

But it will be great for competition.

According to inside sources, a very high percentage of SBS technical capabilities are working on their fiber initiative. This Ken is true, the company I work for is currently working with SBC on some of these things.

The great thing is the consumer is the winner in all of this, and this is a great push for HDTV.

HD is finally going mainstream.

Don't ever count out satellite because you never know what they might do to reduce their drawbacks and to entice customers towards them. Money always has a way of enticing customers one way or another. The more choice we have the better. Also as long as say DirecTV has Murdock and NFL Sunday Ticket they won't be going anywhere.

im not counting them out but once this stuff starts happening dbs will lose alot of subs.... i would be suprised if both dish and directv survive when their sub numbers start to drop (and they will). Cable is going to lose out on alot of subs too. But Ive thought this from the beginning that what verizon was doing would kill all the other providers and it seems that very well might come true.

Fios is basically as good as D*'s longest term plans in terms of capacity but they dont have to worry about having every LIL (the advantage of cable in that they can only worry about one area).

DBS is going to HAVE to go to much cheaper prices (below what verizon will have and we have already seen they are VERY low). The day of price gouging for exclusive content (such as ST) will be over very soon.

I recently switched to Verizon DSL and come to find out the service is better than RoadRunner and it costs $5 less per month! :) I'm returning my cable modem tonight. ;)

If you think about it, the whole idea of one provider having every HD channel is technically possible, but unlikely from a number of other perspectives. The easiest example that comes to mind is NFL ST.

I call a HUGE BS on this one.

For one thing the cable companies have been snapping up local sports franchise broadcast rights, even putting in their own HD eqiupment to keep it exclusive.

For instance, here in San Diego, you can't walk 2 feet within PETCO park to watch the Padres without being bombard every step with "HD Brought to you by COX / SONY".

They even have their own CABLE channel, Channel 4SD, whose only purpose is to show Padres games and SDSU basketball games from COX Areana (nifty they just built a whole gym just for exclusive rights).

They REFUSE to let Directv or Echo show Padres games, it really blows, and consequently no one I know follows the Padres anymore because they can't watch them on TV (maybe a GOOD thing this year LOL).

I understand many markets (RSN) like Phillidelphia have the same cable company scum like TWC that owns the rights to all the games (Comcast I believe).

So I don't see how FIOS is going to break up the sports exclusivity deals in many markets. Are they really going to let Verizon come in with their HD truck and show the games.

I think Congress needs to get involved.

the padres have their games in INHD all the time.... thats where the rsn stuff is coming from. INHD will be able to vastly increase its programming too. Its not that far fetched at all.

The funny thing, Toy4two2, is that Padres Owner John Moores has DirecTV :)

Whats funny is things like NESN HD is not made available to Dish and DirecTV, yet I am able to watch many of the RedSox HD games on Bell ExpressVu from Canada.

Congress really does need to step in here and do something.

the padres have their games in INHD all the time.... thats where the rsn stuff is coming from. INHD will be able to vastly increase its programming too. Its not that far fetched at all.

INHD is owned by Cable Companies.

The only time locals get to watch their Padres is when FOX broadcasts Satuday baseball. You have to have cable to watch the Padres.

How can John Moores have D*? He can't watch the Padres with that unless he "moved" to San Fran, LOL.

INHD is owned by Cable Companies.

The only time locals get to watch their Padres is when FOX broadcasts Satuday baseball. You have to have cable to watch the Padres.

How can John Moores have D*? He can't watch the Padres with that unless he "moved" to San Fran, LOL.


My point was its a win/win for both verizon and inHD if it were to happen. InHd gets vastly more programming to choose from and verizon gets inHD/the contracts. Cox and others are part of the cable conglomerate that own INHD so the better that channel is the more its worth.

jagouar: I don't know where you are getting your numbers from

"...DBS is going to HAVE to go to much cheaper prices (below what verizon will have and we have already seen they are VERY low). The day of price gouging for exclusive content (such as ST) will be over very soon....

-- but is it difficult to at least give some credence to the CSFB pricing analysis?

"..."Our pricing comparison indicates that Verizon's video plans offer greater value at all segments of the market versus its cable competitors and at the high end of the market versus satellite competitors," CSFB said...."

Here's hoping they start wiring up multi-dwelling condos soon.;)

Here's hoping they start wiring up multi-dwelling condos soon.;)Just like SBC is working on its own secret FTTP initiative, so is Verizon also looking at FTTN. FTTN w/VDSL will also allow Verizon to service MDU using their existing copper. No need to run fibers all over a condo building.

Just like SBC is working on its own secret FTTP initiative, so is Verizon also looking at FTTN. FTTN w/VDSL will also allow Verizon to service MDU using their existing copper. No need to run fibers all over a condo building.It won't come soon enough. I think I've mentioned a number of times that my town has had FIOS since June yet I can't get it.

Verizon is probably a week away from getting a franchise agreement with its first Long Island locality. They know how disliked Cablevision is on Long Island and are making it one of their first targets.

The problem is that they need to negotiate individual franchise agreements with each individual locality (with Cablevision fighting against each agreement). Verizon is trying to make the case that they should be granted franchise agreements statewide, like they have done in Texas.

My town is one of the localities that they are currently in negotiations with. As soon a FIOS is available to me, I will cancelling D*. If Cablevision didn't suck so badly, I would have dumped D* when they decided to screw HD customers with their "Super Fan" crap.

Just like SBC is working on its own secret FTTP initiative, so is Verizon also looking at FTTN. FTTN w/VDSL will also allow Verizon to service MDU using their existing copper. No need to run fibers all over a condo building.

That's backwards. Verizon is FTTP and SBC is working with FTTN. SBC will use copper and VDSL2 for the last mile.

Bellsouth is still on the fence and basically waiting to see if SBC can pull off the lower cost option. Lots of doubts there due to the technical hurdles that have to be overcome.

jagouar: I don't know where you are getting your numbers from

"...DBS is going to HAVE to go to much cheaper prices (below what verizon will have and we have already seen they are VERY low). The day of price gouging for exclusive content (such as ST) will be over very soon....

-- but is it difficult to at least give some credence to the CSFB pricing analysis?

"..."Our pricing comparison indicates that Verizon's video plans offer greater value at all segments of the market versus its cable competitors and at the high end of the market versus satellite competitors," CSFB said...."

Fios:
Digital Service 160 chanels + Basic (15-35 channels) $39.95
Sports/Movie Package Combination (41 channels) $14.95
Digital Video Recorder (includes HDTV channels) $12.95

Total: $67.85 (sans HBO, SHO etc but the reason i didnt include them was they are pretty much priced the same on both providers). But that gets you 221 channels (not including HD channels).

DirecTV:
TOTAL CHOICE® PLUS (Over 155 Channels) $45.99
HD Pack $10.99
Total: $56.98 (155 channels, no DVR included, less HD.... you add a HDtivo and that $11 difference more than goes out the window)

Dish:
America's Top 180 (with locals) $52.99
HD Pack $9.99
Voom $5.00
Total: 67.98 (180 channels, no DVR, less HD)

Its quite clear to me who is the best deal there. And the reason my comment about Dish and Direct going to have to drop prices because for the same money you get alot more. D*/E* cant compete with that unless they drop pricing.

Source for Verizon pricing: http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/888456~abbfe0c614efeada9af96f71c0514fd2/kTi26334.zip

That's backwards. Verizon is FTTP and SBC is working with FTTN. SBC will use copper and VDSL2 for the last mile.

Bellsouth is still on the fence and basically waiting to see if SBC can pull off the lower cost option. Lots of doubts there due to the technical hurdles that have to be overcome.hehe, Thats the public announcments that you are talking about. I'm talking about what they have up their sleaves. Verizon likes FTTN since it allows them to get into the MDUs cheaply. SBC likes FTTP for its obvious advantages. And since a SBC's deployed FTTN will take the fiber close the homes, moving to FTTP at a later date is feasible.

Bell South is in the FTTN camp at this time.

D*/E* cant compete with that unless they drop pricing.


D* will be able to compete as long as they have NFL Sunday Ticket.

Also, they're giving away the HD TiVo's right now, practically for free. I got mine installed for $45.

ZD Net just posted and article that said that Verizon switches on it's TV Service in Keller, TX.

Go over to ZDNet _dot _com and the article is called: "Verizon Switches on TV Service". (Sorry, can't do a Link until I get 5 posts.)

Keller residents will pay $12.95 for the basic service, which includes 15 to 35 channels, and $39.95 for 180 channels. Sports and movie packages can be added for $5.95 and $11.95, respectively.

It will be intresting on what's going to happen.... I just like to see what the 180 channels will be.

jagouar: if you honestly believe DirecTV will be undercut on price, you have just totally failed to do research on any Rupert Murdoch operation.

Once the scale is there to go national, he will be advertising on a national basis, something it will take Verizon years to come close to.

If I lived in Killen, TX, (or Long Island!) I would have signed up for FiOS months ago. It seems like a good deal.

But to seriously believe Murdoch will be undersold is to totally ignore his history on at least three continents.

jagouar: if you honestly believe DirecTV will be undercut on price, you have just totally failed to do research on any Rupert Murdoch operation.

Once the scale is there to go national, he will be advertising on a national basis, something it will take Verizon years to come close to.

If I lived in Killen, TX, (or Long Island!) I would have signed up for FiOS months ago. It seems like a good deal.

But to seriously believe Murdoch will be undersold is to totally ignore his history on at least three continents.

When is the last time ANY DBS has EVER DROPPED prices? (voom comes to mind but that wasnt really a drop in prices). I dont remember one ever. I know all about ruperts past and not saying it wont happen but right now fios looks like the better option (even with all the sats going up for anybody in a fios deployed area). If they keep current pricing they wont compete. My point was they will have to if they want to stay competative with fios. And Keller, TX is the test market for fios TV. Hopefully our new teleom deal will get fios deployed heavily in TX now.

D* will be able to compete as long as they have NFL Sunday Ticket.

Also, they're giving away the HD TiVo's right now, practically for free. I got mine installed for $45.

2 million subs (last figure I saw posted here) wont keep D* in the black. I really think alot of people overstate how much ST means to D*'s bottom line. Yes those are important subs but 2 million isnt that many in the grand scheme of things. 85% of D*'s own subs dont even sub to ST.

Whats funny is things like NESN HD is not made available to Dish and DirecTV, yet I am able to watch many of the RedSox HD games on Bell ExpressVu from Canada.

Congress really does need to step in here and do something.

Woah! I know this is off topic but this is the first I've heard that there is RedSox HD games on BEV. How many are there? Could definetly be the final push to get me to go with BEV.

Woah! I know this is off topic but this is the first I've heard that there is RedSox HD games on BEV. How many are there? Could definetly be the final push to get me to go with BEV.

Rogers Sportsnet HD (available on all satellite/cable providers in Canada) sometimes picks up a game from InDemand HD if the Blue Jays are not playing. I've seen the occasional game from YES and FSN West on there as well. But they seem to favour NESN. The NESN HD games are excellent HD PQ (on SC). They also show the ESPN Sunday night game.

No need to go with Bell. The big action has been to Star Choice this month as they bought the remaining 40,000 Motorola Voom receivers. They have been selling them for $199cdn with a $50 programming credit. At that price I had to order 1 so I won't have to share my HD decoder between my 4DTV and SC setups anymore.

New Canadian customers also get a dish installed for free + an additional $50 PPV credit. Star Choice does not charge extra for HD (unlike their competitors).


http://www.kusat.com/catalog/product_info.php?currency=USD&osCsid=0249215059245656b52dc2ea9bc68051&products_id=329

Whats funny is things like NESN HD is not made available to Dish and DirecTV, yet I am able to watch many of the RedSox HD games on Bell ExpressVu from Canada.

Congress really does need to step in here and do something.

Scott - BEV carries NESN-HD? I thought it had no NESN carriage

Verizon is probably a week away from getting a franchise agreement with its first Long Island locality. They know how disliked Cablevision is on Long Island and are making it one of their first targets.

The problem is that they need to negotiate individual franchise agreements with each individual locality (with Cablevision fighting against each agreement). Verizon is trying to make the case that they should be granted franchise agreements statewide, like they have done in Texas.

My town is one of the localities that they are currently in negotiations with. As soon a FIOS is available to me, I will cancelling D*. If Cablevision didn't suck so badly, I would have dumped D* when they decided to screw HD customers with their "Super Fan" crap.
I'm with you, Bill. I feel exactly the same way about D*.
I've got Verizon now for local, wireless and DSL. FIOS TV will fit in very nicely.
Have you heard anything about Verizon's timeline for the southern Westchester I-95 corridor?

D* will be able to compete as long as they have NFL Sunday Ticket.

Why do you think Verizon is signing distant local CBS and FOX agreements, so they can offer thoses to customers to follow thier favorite NFL team that way.

Plus people like me on Dish are already getting the mini-NFL ST that way. At 1.50 per channel 5 CBS and 5 FOX comes out to about 60.00 for the season.

It aint just about price guys, it's about quality AND quantity. It appears that FIOS may offer both. That's a whole lot different than the garbage we get from D*!!! I can't wait...it can't be too soon to give D* the heave ho.

Why do you think Verizon is signing distant local CBS and FOX agreements, so they can offer thoses to customers to follow thier favorite NFL team that way.You still won't be able to get out of market stations, unless you qualify and/or have waivers.

When is the last time ANY DBS has EVER DROPPED prices? (voom comes to mind but that wasnt really a drop in prices). I dont remember one ever. I know all about ruperts past and not saying it wont happen but right now fios looks like the better option (even with all the sats going up for anybody in a fios deployed area). If they keep current pricing they wont compete. My point was they will have to if they want to stay competative with fios. And Keller, TX is the test market for fios TV. Hopefully our new teleom deal will get fios deployed heavily in TX now.



2 million subs (last figure I saw posted here) wont keep D* in the black. I really think alot of people overstate how much ST means to D*'s bottom line. Yes those are important subs but 2 million isnt that many in the grand scheme of things. 85% of D*'s own subs dont even sub to ST.
Right on all points. I hardly see D* lowering prices and offering more HD. They will lose in the Verizon FIOS territories until they really feel pain. Rupert will go as long as he can without lowering prices.

hehe, Thats the public announcments that you are talking about. I'm talking about what they have up their sleaves. Verizon likes FTTN since it allows them to get into the MDUs cheaply. SBC likes FTTP for its obvious advantages. And since a SBC's deployed FTTN will take the fiber close the homes, moving to FTTP at a later date is feasible.

Bell South is in the FTTN camp at this time.


I'm sorry but I don't know where you get your info from. SBC at this point has only experimented in small select areas for FTTP. It will be a long time till they go FTTP. They are spenind TONS of money on an overbuild of thier network with FTTN. To be able to use the last 5000 ft of copper saves a butt load of money. That's what big Ed is about nowadays. Bow it is possible that you may know something about whats going to come down the proverbial pipe when he retires later this year, but I highly doubt that if you did, you would post it here.

Bell South is in the FTTN camp at this time.


Shure cause when we buy them soon, they are going to be doing the same we are :D

My only question is, WHEN? I'm in L.A. I'm with D* but not a ST sub. If I can get pretty much all national HD channels and HDDVR at a decent price, Vz can own my a$$. (I already have Vz DSL, phone, & wireless.)

either way verizon ig going to take over the market imo.... who really would want dish or directv or cable if you can get more channels for cheaper with verizon? I know as soon as its ready in my area im jumping on board.

Not necessarily. they re only aiming for upscale market s and will most likely only offer it as part of a bundle.

Not necessarily. they re only aiming for upscale market s and will most likely only offer it as part of a bundle.

Huh? Not offered as a bundle? The whole idea of the telcos getting into the TV space is so they can do precisely that. They want to offer you a triple play of services(voice/data/TV).

I was searching Verizons site and found this announcement at:

Sorry... Don't have 5 posts yet for URLs.

newscenter_dot_verizon_dot_com

Click on:

Verizon FiOS TV Is Here!
Sep 22, 2005

Here's a quick service highlight: Wow!!!

Service highlights include:

A broad collection of all-digital programming and compelling consumer choice – with more than 330 total channels at launch and more on the way.

A lead offer with more than 180 digital video and music channels, for $39.95 a month.

More than 20 high-definition channels, with extraordinary clarity and theater-quality sound.

Nearly 600 video-on-demand titles available to customers now, with 1,800 by year-end.

A wide range of local and special-interest channels not found on most cable and satellite systems.

Channels grouped by genres such as entertainment, sports, news, shopping, movies and family, making it easy for audiences to find their favorite programming.

An easy-to-use interactive programming guide that integrates HD programming, video-on-demand and the digital video recorder along with broadcast television into a seamless user experience.

Verizon is probably a week away from getting a franchise agreement with its first Long Island locality. They know how disliked Cablevision is on Long Island and are making it one of their first targets.

The problem is that they need to negotiate individual franchise agreements with each individual locality (with Cablevision fighting against each agreement). Verizon is trying to make the case that they should be granted franchise agreements statewide, like they have done in Texas.

My town is one of the localities that they are currently in negotiations with. As soon a FIOS is available to me, I will cancelling D*. If Cablevision didn't suck so badly, I would have dumped D* when they decided to screw HD customers with their "Super Fan" crap.


My Uncle lives in MuttonTown and has had FIOS for a few months already!

Also expect Verizon to start a massive push for FIOS in apartment complexes in early to mid 2006. Now I'm going to say how the system will work but please don't mistake this solution with FTTN because this solution is still FTTP just done a tad bit differently.

Right now Verizon is very close to start using a new MDU ONT from either Motorola and/or Tellabs. This new ONT will be able to wire 16 units per ONT. Now this ONT would be put inside whatever room the current phone and cable wires are which could be a basement for example. The big issue with apartments is not wiring up cable or phone service but wiring up internet service because currently each house needs an ethernet cable run from the ONT and in apartments this requires very very hard work and access to each specific apartment unit. So with that said this new MDU will offer the same speed internet FIOS services but over the phone cable instead of an ethernet cable using VDSL2. VDSL2 can work at these high speeds with ease because the phone cable will only carry the data from the basement to the unit itself instead of from the CO to the unit. So the internet data would travel over fiber into the ONT but instead of going over an ethernet cable it will travel over the phone cable instead.

They will also use PPPoE which will require a username and password to get access to internet service but their router can hold this information so each computer itself will work as an always on connection that doesn't require a username or password.

Now their basic cable TV package at around 12 bucks a month can only be turned on if a Verizon tech hooks it up. To make sure that all customers in the building only get what they order they will use boxes which is why all packages but the basic package requires a box. One of these boxes will connect to a router to authorize services and for PPV and VOD use. The other digital boxes in the house will be connected to the router over its coax cables. So if you order a VOD title on another box it would send that request over the existing coax cables in the house until it reaches the router. So the router would handle all two way traffic for all digital boxes in the house. This two way traffic would include the program guide, interactive TV, tuning in of channels, VOD, PPV and making sure that all boxes can only tune in what that specific subscriber pays for.

This will be some very fun stuff. Verizon is also working to update their SDU ONTs to use VDSL2 as well so they can great save time and money on FIOS installations. Most homes have a phone jack near their computer and cable jacks in all the rooms they want TV with so most customers will be very quick installs. These new ONTs will still support using an ethernet jack so if a customer doesn't have a phone jack near the computer they will just install an ethernet jack.

It still will require connecting your existing cable wiring to the MDU ONT? What happens if your cable company company refuses access to their cable connection box? I know, in some buildings, the cable companies claim they legally own the internal cable wiring up until entry to the apartment.

Those weasels destroyed my front yard installing the lines for Fios last winter and never came back to fix it. We still don't have the service yet, and I'd never buy it. Plus, they don't have the NFL Sunday Ticket.

Scott - BEV carries NESN-HD? I thought it had no NESN carriage
The Red Sox HD games are shown on BEV on SportsNet. The games have the NESN logo and the Sportnet logo on the screen.

It aint just about price guys, it's about quality AND quantity. It appears that FIOS may offer both. That's a whole lot different than the garbage we get from D*!!! I can't wait...it can't be too soon to give D* the heave ho.

And it's also about availability. I hope everyone realizes this is not a national service. It's not even something that will be available to all Verizon customers. I live in a Verizon serviced area and I have Verizon phone and DSL but will still not see the FIOS service for years. In fact Verizon does not even have my area on the schedule for FIOS.

Right, but for those of us fortunate enough to have this option (Verizon FIOS is in my area but not down my street, yet), someday it's going to be "good-bye" Time Warner. ;)

BTW... I dropped RoadRunner, switched to DSL and come to find out... Verizon's service is better.

And it's also about availability. I hope everyone realizes this is not a national service. It's not even something that will be available to all Verizon customers. I live in a Verizon serviced area and I have Verizon phone and DSL but will still not see the FIOS service for years. In fact Verizon does not even have my area on the schedule for FIOS.


You may not even have verizon for long. they have been trying to sell off that area to sbc or sprint for a while now. looks like sprint is going to take it.

Those weasels destroyed my front yard installing the lines for Fios last winter and never came back to fix it. We still don't have the service yet, and I'd never buy it. Plus, they don't have the NFL Sunday Ticket.



If its on eazement, its actualy not your yard and they dont have to fix it. sorry bud but thats the way it is.

It still will require connecting your existing cable wiring to the MDU ONT? What happens if your cable company company refuses access to their cable connection box? I know, in some buildings, the cable companies claim they legally own the internal cable wiring up until entry to the apartment.


and they do own the box that houses the cable. they do not own the cable. that being said, they shure dont hold back from breaking into the telco's boxes and accessing the sub's iw, so i see no reason why a handy phone guy couldnt do the same :D

Excuse the ignorance, but what are FTTN and FTTP? :confused:

Excuse the ignorance, but what are FTTN and FTTP? :confused:

Loosely used acronyms.

FTTN = fiber to the node or neighborhood switching box
FTTP = fiber to the premises or to your house
FTTH = fiber to the home, similar to above
FTTB = fiber to the basement, sometimes used for MDU hookups

If its on eazement, its actualy not your yard and they dont have to fix it. sorry bud but thats the way it is.

Actually, our local laws do require them to replant. The worst part was they didn't use enough dirt to fill in the holes they dug so I ended up with big potholes in my yard.

Just to elaborate a litte.

With FTTN (Fiber to the Node). The node means a box/vault nearby in your neighborhood. From there, the signal/service is run over High Speed DSL over your existing phone line into your house. Over this High Speed DSL, the Video/Voice/Data all travel.

The Red Sox HD games are shown on BEV on SportsNet. The games have the NESN logo and the Sportnet logo on the screen.


Scott, how many games were on SportsNet this year? Are you talking about a few games or most of the NESN HD schedule? Thanks.

It still will require connecting your existing cable wiring to the MDU ONT? What happens if your cable company company refuses access to their cable connection box? I know, in some buildings, the cable companies claim they legally own the internal cable wiring up until entry to the apartment.

They may claim it but the law states that all wiring belongs to the customer or the apartment complex owners. If they a locked box they must provide a way to allow Verizon to disconnect it or they must disconnect it when the customer cancels service and they must also do it within the next business. This means that most cable companies allow the cable to be disconnected from their boxes because they don't want to send a truck roll everytime a customer disconnects.

Again they may claim it but you never hear about them winning or bringing this into court. The reason why is because they can win but they will endup losing like I said. If they brought it to court they would again be forced to disconnect the customers coax cables from their boxes via a truck roll.

Dont know if this has been mentioned at all, but it's definately true about VZ and one HD premium--STarz HD!

Heres the quote and the link----hope they add Cinemax HD also. It also says "later this year"

Verizon formed a long-term affiliation agreement with Starz Entertainment Group for the SEG premium movie channels and services. Under the agreement, Verizon will be able to carry East and West Coast feeds of all 13 SEG movie channels on Verizon FiOS TV when it launches later this year. The programming includes the flagship Starz and Encore brands, Starz On Demand and Starz HDTV


http://www.hotelmotel.com/hotelmotel/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=160333

FACT---------ESPNHD and ESPN2HD on VZ FIOS.

http://www.worldscreen.com/newscurrent.php?filename=disney921.htm

In Maryland I have FIOS for high speed Internet service and it is fabulous. The interface box in my case was mounted inside my basement and has an interface for an RJ45 jack for Internet service and a coax connection for cable service. Since I am no longer using Comcast cable for high speed Internet service I can use the cable wiring in my house for FIOS video service once it is available in my area.

Here's an article from today's NY Times:

Verizon Introduces Fiber Optic TV Service

By KEN BELSON
Published: September 23, 2005

Verizon Communications began taking orders yesterday for its new television service, which the company hopes will draw business away from cable and satellite providers.

As part of a national strategy, about 9,000 Verizon customers in Keller, Tex., 30 miles west of Dallas, will be the first to subscribe to the television service, called FiOS TV. The service includes more than 180 digital video and music channels, 20 high-definition channels and video-on-demand for $39.95 a month, carried over fiber optic cables that were installed to replace older copper lines.

The service in Keller is part of Verizon's plan to compete head-on with cable companies that in the last 18 months have started selling digital phone lines. To keep customers from defecting, Verizon and SBC Communications are starting to sell digital programming to complement their phone and broadband services.

The companies have taken different routes. Verizon is spending billions of dollars to run fiber lines all the way to customers' homes - lines that also carry phone calls and broadband connections. SBC, by contrast, is running fiber lines to neighborhoods and using existing copper lines to reach homes.

Either way, the phone companies are trying to assemble bundles of phone, high-speed Internet and television services that match what the cable industry offers.

Verizon's new television product will include more local channels not often found on satellite systems, and customers can order additional programming based on a genre, like sports and movies.

"This is just the beginning of TV that rides on a wave of light into people's homes," Steve Banta, president of Verizon's southwest region, said.

The company plans to introduce FiOS TV in six other markets, including several in Florida, Virginia and California, by the end of the year, when its fiber optic network will be available to three million homes.

Verizon has signed deals to obtain programming rights from most major television and movie studios. The company also signed franchise agreements with individual municipalities in Texas before the state government passed a law this summer that would allow Verizon and others to obtain agreements from the Texas Public Utility Commission. Instead of negotiating with towns for an agreement, which can take up to 18 months, Verizon can get approval from the commission instead.

Texas, however, is the only state to pass such a law, which means Verizon must still negotiate deals with individual cities in other states.

Verizon expects to sign up 20 percent of homes that can receive FiOS service in Keller by the end of the year, according to Bob Ingalls, the president of the company's retail group.

If its on eazement, its actualy not your yard and they dont have to fix it. sorry bud but thats the way it is.

that statement is 100% incorrect.

It is actually your yard and an easement holder has an obligation to maintain the easment and can be held liable for damages if they do not.

They may claim it but the law states that all wiring belongs to the customer or the apartment complex owners. If they a locked box they must provide a way to allow Verizon to disconnect it or they must disconnect it when the customer cancels service and they must also do it within the next business. This means that most cable companies allow the cable to be disconnected from their boxes because they don't want to send a truck roll everytime a customer disconnects.

Again they may claim it but you never hear about them winning or bringing this into court. The reason why is because they can win but they will endup losing like I said. If they brought it to court they would again be forced to disconnect the customers coax cables from their boxes via a truck roll.


I live in a Coop (68 apartments) in Westchester, NY and our Coop board(Housing Association) has already granted Verizon permision to wire our building for FIOS. I know Verizon technicians have been here twice trying to figure out the best way to do it. Your information would seem to indicate that they will probably now wait until the new MDU ONTs are available. Our building is very old, but there was a major fire several years ago and everything was extensively renovated - including replacing all of the POTS lines and coax cabling. MDUs wired this way would make installation a dream. I currently have Cablevision, which I detest, and am salivating for the day I can get FIOS TV.

They may claim it but the law states that all wiring belongs to the customer or the apartment complex owners. If they a locked box they must provide a way to allow Verizon to disconnect it or they must disconnect it when the customer cancels service and they must also do it within the next business. This means that most cable companies allow the cable to be disconnected from their boxes because they don't want to send a truck roll everytime a customer disconnects.

Again they may claim it but you never hear about them winning or bringing this into court. The reason why is because they can win but they will endup losing like I said. If they brought it to court they would again be forced to disconnect the customers coax cables from their boxes via a truck roll.

Longhorn,
This may not be as cut and dried as you are making it out to be. In our buildings case it certainly is not. I believe that the law you are referring to is the 1996 Telecommunications Act. This law basically provides a very comprehensive framework for either the individual condo owners, or the HOA as a whole, to purchase the "home wiring" and "home run wiring" from the incumbent service provider (i.e. cable company). If you take a close look at that document though, you will find that the provisions of the law can only be used when the incumbent provider no longer has a legally enforceable right to remain in the building.

In our case, the original contract that we signed with the cable company back in 1985 had wording to the effect that the cable company maintained complete ownership of "all" the wiring in the building, with no term specified. Because of this, they have a legally enforceable right (i.e. a signed contract) to operate, and also to preclude anyone from even thinking about using any of their wiring.

We had an MDU installer put in a DirecTv distribution system that made use of the cable comapnies "home run wiring" thinking that we were free to do this based specifically on our reading of the 1996 law. In the midst of trying to get them to open up their box so that we could hook the home runs up to the DirecTv system, their regional vice president shows up with lawyer in tow and says that if he sees or hears of anyone touching the wiring he is calling the police immediately, and shows us the contract to boot. Their position is that they own the wiring, and for us to challenge that it is incumbent upon us to take legal action. Remember, there is no access to the end of the home run wires as they are in the cableco box, which at a minimum has to be opened up to alow the wire to be connected to the DirecTv system.

One of the key points being that "we" are the ones that have to "take it to court" and not them. We are tring to get a contract invalidated, which in California requires Superior Court action. So, $17,000 in legal fees later there is still no provider in the building other than the cable company. Running all new home run wiring to the 50 units could have been done for about $12,000, in parallel to the cable wiring. We just found this out a few weeks ago.

Just want to make sure that no one reading this starts down the same path that we did only to end up getting spanked. Being in the right is one thing, proving it in court against someone with deep pockets is an entirely different matter.

If there are any lawyers perusing the thread who would care to help out a building full of people dying for an alternative to expensive cable television, please respond or PM me on this. This has been dragging on for 4 years and has caused an unbelievable amount of frustration and anger for all invloved.

Robert

P.S. To get somewhat back on topic :) I believe that the wiring that Verizon uses in the building will be their regular telephone wiring. Delivering the FiOS service over th eoriginal copper for the last hundred feet or so. I don't believe they would attempt to use the cable companies wiring. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Scott, how many games were on SportsNet this year? Are you talking about a few games or most of the NESN HD schedule? Thanks.
I would say most.

However I did not find them until a few weeks ago as usually I dont flip through all the expressvu sports stations.

Maybe someone else with ExpressVu who is a sports fan can shed some light of how many Red Sox HD games have been shown.

If its on eazement, its actualy not your yard and they dont have to fix it. sorry bud but thats the way it is.

Actually, easement or not, unless it is a government agency that did it, a public or private company must return it to it's original state or better. Many people don't know that and think companies have a right of way that let's them do whatever they want. They let them get away with it.

My Uncle lives in MuttonTown and has had FIOS for a few months already!

Right now, that's only for Internet. FiOS Internet is available in much of the North Shore of Long Island right now (but not where I live, yet).

They don't have and cable TV franchise licenses in NY yet. However, it appears likely that they will get their first one from Massapequa Park next Monday. (http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-bzveri4437662sep23,0,3736574.story)

[
P.S. To get somewhat back on topic :) I believe that the wiring that Verizon uses in the building will be their regular telephone wiring. Delivering the FiOS service over th eoriginal copper for the last hundred feet or so. I don't believe they would attempt to use the cable companies wiring. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.[/QUOTE]

That (POTS line)is true for the internet service as they would use a new advanced form of DSL to provide it. However, for the TV service they would still need to attach coax cable to the MDU ONT.

Actually, our local laws do require them to replant. The worst part was they didn't use enough dirt to fill in the holes they dug so I ended up with big potholes in my yard.
You know what they say: "There's never enough dirt to fill in the hole." I think that line was used in Stephen King's "Pet Sematary".

Longhorn,
This may not be as cut and dried as you are making it out to be. In our buildings case it certainly is not. I believe that the law you are referring to is the 1996 Telecommunications Act. This law basically provides a very comprehensive framework for either the individual condo owners, or the HOA as a whole, to purchase the "home wiring" and "home run wiring" from the incumbent service provider (i.e. cable company). If you take a close look at that document though, you will find that the provisions of the law can only be used when the incumbent provider no longer has a legally enforceable right to remain in the building.

In our case, the original contract that we signed with the cable company back in 1985 had wording to the effect that the cable company maintained complete ownership of "all" the wiring in the building, with no term specified. Because of this, they have a legally enforceable right (i.e. a signed contract) to operate, and also to preclude anyone from even thinking about using any of their wiring.

We had an MDU installer put in a DirecTv distribution system that made use of the cable comapnies "home run wiring" thinking that we were free to do this based specifically on our reading of the 1996 law. In the midst of trying to get them to open up their box so that we could hook the home runs up to the DirecTv system, their regional vice president shows up with lawyer in tow and says that if he sees or hears of anyone touching the wiring he is calling the police immediately, and shows us the contract to boot. Their position is that they own the wiring, and for us to challenge that it is incumbent upon us to take legal action. Remember, there is no access to the end of the home run wires as they are in the cableco box, which at a minimum has to be opened up to alow the wire to be connected to the DirecTv system.

One of the key points being that "we" are the ones that have to "take it to court" and not them. We are tring to get a contract invalidated, which in California requires Superior Court action. So, $17,000 in legal fees later there is still no provider in the building other than the cable company. Running all new home run wiring to the 50 units could have been done for about $12,000, in parallel to the cable wiring. We just found this out a few weeks ago.

Just want to make sure that no one reading this starts down the same path that we did only to end up getting spanked. Being in the right is one thing, proving it in court against someone with deep pockets is an entirely different matter.

If there are any lawyers perusing the thread who would care to help out a building full of people dying for an alternative to expensive cable television, please respond or PM me on this. This has been dragging on for 4 years and has caused an unbelievable amount of frustration and anger for all invloved.

Robert

P.S. To get somewhat back on topic :) I believe that the wiring that Verizon uses in the building will be their regular telephone wiring. Delivering the FiOS service over th eoriginal copper for the last hundred feet or so. I don't believe they would attempt to use the cable companies wiring. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


I'm aware of all of this but just remember that unless the cable company has an exclusive deal with that apartment complex the company must disconnect any customer from their boxes within 1 business day at least in Florida. No matter what the cable companies contract says they don't nor will they ever own the wiring inside each apartment unit even if they installed it. Now they do own the locked box and if another company even touched a wire on this that is against the law. Now if a customer wants their service disconnected so say Verizon can offer them TV service the cable company is required to disconnect that customer from their boxes within a certain amount of time.

I think your entire issue happens to be dealing with that cable company having an exclusive deal with the complex and not so much the wiring. Their exclusive deal via contract most likely states that no other company can touch their wiring or boxes. Again its not because they own the wiring its because they have an exclusive deal. If they don't have an exclusive deal that complex could get fedup with them and say to remove their boxes. Because by law that cable company doesn't own the wring inside the apartments themselves they can only take their boxes. No court would ever allow a company to own the wires inside the units themselves. As long as the wiring is say inside my house I own it from that point on.

To give you an idea of how this law works I'll give you an example below.

Lets say I have a house built. Now I'm having one builder that might hire tons of subcontractors. Lets say if my builder hired a contractor to install the cable wiring inside the new house. Now lets say if the builder doesn't pay this subcontractor.

Now with all that said who do you think is responsable to pay for this. Well in the eyes of the law because I own the house and all the wiring inside it I could have a lien put on my house unless I myself paid this contractor that installed those coax cables. The builder can't be forced to pay in the laws eyes. The cable wiring contractor cannot go after the builder either.

The samething applies to an apartment complex. Whatever company/person who paid to have these apartments built will always have to pay if anything doesn't get paid by the builder.

Hi Scott & LongHorn,

Just wondering if ANYONE knows the best site (******s; DSL Reports/Broadband Reports; etc?) to go to find out a lot of info about SBC Project Lightspeed/IPTV? Like pricing, channels, etc. I live in Southern CA. (Los Angeles AREA, San Gabriel Valley to be more precise). From last I heard, they were scheduled for November 2005.

TIA :)

Microsoft is not going to have any working boxes untill next year.

My guess is that litespeed tv will not be avail untill this tiem next year

Hi Scott & LongHorn,

Just wondering if ANYONE knows the best site (******s; DSL Reports/Broadband Reports; etc?) to go to find out a lot of info about SBC Project Lightspeed/IPTV? Like pricing, channels, etc. I live in Southern CA. (Los Angeles AREA, San Gabriel Valley to be more precise). From last I heard, they were scheduled for November 2005.

TIA :)Try the HDTV Locals Forum topic for your area.

Try the HDTV Locals Forum topic for your area.

Tele-TV,
Here is a link to the LA local forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=466639&page=1&pp=30

I just looked through the entire thread and it is 95% cable talk and 5% OTA talk. Nothing about Fios. But, I guess because it is the local thread that is where it should be discussed. I also started a thread about the SBC upgrade back when I first saw them laying cable:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=475354

Not much activity in that thread, and I see that according to the original timetable they do seem to be behind. I am also very interested in how this develops so let me know if you find another thread where this is discussed.

Also, back on topic, it looks like when these FIOS systems are deployed in MDU installations, that they either use the cable companies home run wiring or put in their own home run wires. I would really like to hear from an apartment or condo dweller in the FIOS area to see how they do it. I live in a condo and would like to know how SBC will get it in our building, or if they will even try. As others have mentioned, the SBC system is different from Verizons so the results may not apply to what would happen to us.

Robert

Thank-you Ken AND Robert. That's so funny Robert that you just posted the link for me, I was just in the local forums starting to find "the" thread. Thanks again guys. Can't wait to hear what's coming.

Okay back on topic (Sorry for the "diversion"). :)

I've had Verizon FIOS since mid-summer. Admittedly, I freaked when the installer cut the copper, because I knew there was no going back. So far, FIOS delivers!

Fairfax Ct Board just awarded Verizon video distribution rights, so I'm seriously considering ditching Dish. Are there any AVSers who are subscribers to the FIOS video offering (not the DirecTV deal)? What's your experience? Do they have HD on Demand?

I'm not even sure Fios video has been turned on yet. If it has been, I think it's limited to one small town in Texas at the moment.

You are right, but it won't be long before other areas get activated.

I became a Fios customer last week. I have looked over the TV lineup from TX and honestly I don't see anything that would compell me to drop dish. They are not bad, but I'm not sure if they have enough to get me to switch. Plus I like the Baltimore HD channels which I get OTA which I know that Verizon will not carry for me.

There are two (or three) things that would get me to budge.

1. PQ - If Verizon stomps all over Dish's SD PQ, then I might bite.
2. VOD - If there is an impressive VOD offering, then I might bite.
3. HD Lineup - If the HD line up expands dramatically, then I might bite.

I will have to say that thier montly DVR is too high for me. So I would have to re-eval the monthly costs before deciding on moving.

Plus I like the Baltimore HD channels which I get OTA which I know that Verizon will not carry for me.


Why do you think the Local HD's arent going to be part of FIOS?

Verizon is pushing FIOS up here in Northern Westchester. Broadband internet service is available in some areas, with video service comming soon.

From everything that has been said before, FiOS TV will carry all the local HD and SD channels. I can recall that was one of their promo points.

I've had the Fios broadband since June or so. It hasn't even so much as hiccuped once. In looking at what the initial lineup is in D/FW, I'll drop dish in a heartbeat. They are offering the local networks in HD, so that means no more freaking antennas for me. My ABC is broadcasting in VHF to make matters worse. The picture quality is said to kill satellite & cable as well. I have also heard mention of 6 tuner DVR's. That would be amazing.

Just for clarification.

I am in the Wash D.C. DMA. So the local cable companies only carry the Wash locals (both SD and HD). The same holds true for D* & E*. So while I do expect that Verizon will have Wash HD locals, I don't think that the Baltimore HD locals (which are Grade A contour OTA) will be offered in the lineup for my county.

Note: a long time ago (pre-1990) the predcessor to Comcast here did carry Baltimore locals, but dropped them later on.

Just for clarification.

I am in the Wash D.C. DMA. So the local cable companies only carry the Wash locals (both SD and HD). The same holds true for D* & E*. So while I do expect that Verizon will have Wash HD locals, I don't think that the Baltimore HD locals (which are Grade A contour OTA) will be offered in the lineup for my county.

Note: a long time ago (pre-1990) the predcessor to Comcast here did carry Baltimore locals, but dropped them later on.

Baltimores OTA market isn't much different then Pittsburgh which OTA is Grade A, but Comcast still has all the local HD's. Verizon is going to lock up contracts with all the Local Companies, why wouldn't they be national contracts? And as a poster stated earlier, one of the big selling points of FIOS TV is ALL HD Locals.

I've had Verizon FIOS since mid-summer. Admittedly, I freaked when the installer cut the copper, because I knew there was no going back. So far, FIOS delivers!

Fairfax Ct Board just awarded Verizon video distribution rights, so I'm seriously considering ditching Dish. Are there any AVSers who are subscribers to the FIOS video offering (not the DirecTV deal)? What's your experience? Do they have HD on Demand?
J.Mike Ferrara, I happen to read this article about a response from a Verizon FiOS TV customer from Keller, TX to a question from I4U News about anyone in Keller, Texas getting Verizon FiOS TV. Also shows some photo's of the installation.
Keller, TX FiOS TV Article (www.i4u.com/article4365.html)

Baltimores OTA market isn't much different then Pittsburgh which OTA is Grade A, but Comcast still has all the local HD's. Verizon is going to lock up contracts with all the Local Companies, why wouldn't they be national contracts? And as a poster stated earlier, one of the big selling points of FIOS TV is ALL HD Locals.

He wasn't saying they will not have a deal with Baltimore stations, only that with him being in the Wash. DC DMA, he is not likely to get Baltimore stations in addition to his DC locals.

I currently have the Verizon FIOS internet service, and love it. I DO plan to drop Comcast and go to Verizon FIOS TV when it is available in my area, due to all of the HD channels it will be carrying. I am really looking forward to it and hope they get it here soon!

Just for clarification.

I am in the Wash D.C. DMA. So the local cable companies only carry the Wash locals (both SD and HD). The same holds true for D* & E*. So while I do expect that Verizon will have Wash HD locals, I don't think that the Baltimore HD locals (which are Grade A contour OTA) will be offered in the lineup for my county.

Note: a long time ago (pre-1990) the predcessor to Comcast here did carry Baltimore locals, but dropped them later on.

Heheh, score one for Howard county. For some reason they get both baltimore/washington locals on comcast.

Yeah, but thats only SD. I was over there in Columbia working on a friends HDTV setup. His Comcast STB only has Baltimore HD channels in its lineup. But both Wash/Balt SD channels.

I've had FIOS since July here in upstate NY, It is great and if the Video service is as good I will have to try it. TimeWarner has not impressed me in the time I have had a HDTV, about 3 years. The customer service is poor and the HD lineup is nothing special. I think Verizon will give them a run for their money when they activate the video service in the Albany area.

Yeah, but thats only SD. I was over there in Columbia working on a friends HDTV setup. His Comcast STB only Baltimore HD channels in its lineup. But both Wash/Balt SD channels.

My parents in Laurel, MD are still getting FOX HD from Baltimore and DC - a lingering effect of the Comcast-Sinclair dispute. :)

I would switch from Comcast to FIOS in a heartbeat if it were available to me, even if I had to give up INHD1/2 and Comcast SportsNet.

Thought you guys might find this interesting...
http://www.i4u.com/article4365.html

I currently have Verizon DSL, haven't jumped to FIOS yet cause DSL became such a darn good deal after they rolled out the fiber in my neighborhood. I'll probably jump ship from Comcast when we get TV if the price point is right, which based on the way they are pricing internet compared to Comcast I'm hoping it will be.

Noticed the guy said even his SD looked better in the interview. I'm excited about the potential all this bandwidth provides :) Channel lineup mentioned also looked solid.

I'm surprising myself by how much weight I'm putting on Very Good Standard definitionn picture quality. I thought that my days of SD concerns were well in the past, but now that there is the chance of regaining excellend SD PQ, I'm getting a little excited.

Dish Network's SD channels look very poor on my Plasma. At first I thought that Plasmas just stunk for SD, then then I got some ATSC SD digitals and that PQ was great. So I knew it was the provider and not that plasma that was the cause of my woes. Plus DVDs look great on the Plasma. Dish did have great SD PQ back in 2000 when I first started to use them, but since the over compression of "must carry" its been terrible ever since.

What do you think the chances are of FIOS being able to be run into an HTPC and be able to record HD feeds and the regular feeds as well? All it will be is a Cat-5 line run into the box, and I bet somone, hopefully Verizon!, can create a program or hardware that would work with Media Center 2005.

I just got it installed last week, and the thing smokes. I'm running the 5 down right now, since hardly any sites out there are using the bandwidth to upload that fast (DSL reports didn't even gauge my speed!).

Anyway, it rocks, and I am just amazed that the Cat-5 from the outside box into the router is all that's needed. The install was fantastic, and I like the battery back up!

Can't wait to see what they offer in the video department.

Wow this sounds great I guess we have some new legit competition on the horizon. I have been with D* 9 years now but this may be just what makes me move as I know cable never will.

In the picture in the article, it still shows coax hooked up to the wall, which would make sense as you don't want to rewire your entire house. It may be that the black box, talks to the cable box so as to only allow through necessary channels at any given time to ensure that your home cabling has enough bandwidth. (I'm just making this up as I go along by the way, there's no facts to this just conjecture) Which would also allow the possibility of cablecard. I don't think cat5 is the delivery mechanism inside the home.

But 20+ HD channels to start certaintly sounds nice. :)

FYI: Verizon's Fios TV service is going to be just regular cableTV technology. The ONT box on the back of my house has a regular old F connector coax jack. They wil use the same coax in your house to deliver the tv programming. Their set top box is the same one from motorola that Comcast and others use.

They will likely migrate to IPTV one day, but at this point in time, they are going with the proven cable tv technology. The only difference is that run the signal opticallly on the fiber, and then change the signal over to electrical on the coax. Cable companies do this too. They just run the optical parts in their network, and their final run is coax to your house.

So I expect that regular QAM tuner card will work as well with Fios as it does with Cable. Of course what they encrypt is a whole other story.

FYI: Verizon's Fios TV service is going to be just regular cableTV technology. The ONT box on the back of my house has a regular old F connector coax jack. They wil use the same coax in your house to deliver the tv programming. Their set top box is the same one from motorola that Comcast and others use.

They will likely migrate to IPTV one day, but at this point in time, they are going with the proven cable tv technology. The only difference is that run the signal opticallly on the fiber, and then change the signal over to electrical on the coax. Cable companies do this too. They just run the optical parts in their network, and their final run is coax to your house.

So I expect that regular QAM tuner card will work as well with Fios as it does with Cable. Of course what they encrypt is a whole other story.

The box they installed on the back of my house has "Video" with an Ethernet jack above it. Interesting. And the install guy said copper is gone and that it would be a Cat-5 connect. Maybe I have a newer box? Could that be?

Any news on when Orange County in California might get FIOS? I really hate my internet provider and any alternative would be great.

It makes sense for Verizon to use good ole coax because of one big reason. Cost.

Seeing as how most STB's are made to work with coax, this makes it much easier because alot of cable STB's can be used by Verizon, keeping the cost relatively low, especially for a new service when they're trying to compete with cable. Also, many homes are wired w/ coax, so this makes for an easy switch for current satellite and cable subscribers. If the house had to be rewired w/ fiber, you can bet the cost would rise considerably, just because of the installation alone.

I can't wait for verizon tv service to be available in the dc metro area. Cable's prices are much higher, and satellite's quality is just bad. Verizon's prices are the same as a comparable satellite package, but with VOD, and better PQ. While I was looking forward to Directv's new mpeg4 service w/ more hd, I think it still won't be good enough in areas where it's competing w/ verizon tv service.

I can verify that it is coax to the box but there is a network interface that uses CAT-5 (only 1 required per household) for the video on demand, etc.

John

How many DVR tuners at this point JJ?

What do you think the chances are of FIOS being able to be run into an HTPC and be able to record HD feeds and the regular feeds as well? All it will be is a Cat-5 line run into the box, and I bet somone, hopefully Verizon!, can create a program or hardware that would work with Media Center 2005.

I just got it installed last week, and the thing smokes. I'm running the 5 down right now, since hardly any sites out there are using the bandwidth to upload that fast (DSL reports didn't even gauge my speed!).

Anyway, it rocks, and I am just amazed that the Cat-5 from the outside box into the router is all that's needed. The install was fantastic, and I like the battery back up!

Can't wait to see what they offer in the video department.


My Cablevision cable runs 9-10mb down. Plenty of places to take full advantage of that!

Tuners in 1 box? - 2 that I know of.

The box they installed on the back of my house has "Video" with an Ethernet jack above it. Interesting. And the install guy said copper is gone and that it would be a Cat-5 connect. Maybe I have a newer box? Could that be?

The Ethernet port in your ONT is for data service.

As it was explained to me, coax will be used to deliver video to the STBs and there will be a CAT-5e line from the router to 1 STB to handle VOD. I'll try to grill my manager for info since he just attended a video install class this week.

AS far as switching to FIOS TV from D*. Not too sure. Having lifetime DVR service through D* may keep me there. Unless they're gonna run a great deal for employees.

I've been happy with FIOS for Internet (I can get close to 15 Mbps in real-world use, not just tests) and I'm very interested in FIOS TV when it's offered, but I'm not going to jump on it before I find out a few things. The folks who have it in Keller TX don't seem to be saying much about it. They're probably too busy watching TV.

Some things I'd like to know from someone who actually has the service:

If you hang an analog TV or VCR on the cable, what do you get?

If you hang a digital receiver that handles unscrambled QAM on the cable, what do you get?

Some reports say the Verizon STB or DVR has IEEE 1394 ports. If true, are they active? Can I record to D-VHS? How about to a PC?

Does the STB provide simultaneous HD and composite/S-Video outputs, or must I select one or the other?

Since the fiber is not shared with the neighbors as cable is, it might be possible to send each house only the channels it is subscribed to, in which case scrambling would be unnecessary. But I don't know if they do that.

The rate for standard service is a bit lower than cable (though still more than I'd like to pay for the few channels I would ever watch) and the price for the Showtime/Starz/Encore bundle is so low I'd probably take that too. But the DVR price is a bit high and the charges to change the level of service, other than to drop it completely, are downright punitive. That suggests Verizon plans to bait and switch: sign people up for a good price, then jack the rates so high they know many will want to cut back.

Can't say too much at this time unfortunately. STB's will output simultaneously to component (HD) and S-Video/composite.

More later.

John

First off I'll state that I don't have the service and I'm just pulling this out of my a**...but I have some thoughts...

If you hang an analog TV or VCR on the cable, what do you get?

probably nothing...fiber optic should be a purely digital signal, which will probably require a digital cable box at every tv in the house

If you hang a digital receiver that handles unscrambled QAM on the cable, what do you get?

this might get you stations, because why scramble when they might be able directly control which stations are sent to you to begin with....but i'd guess nothing so that you have to rent boxes

Some reports say the Verizon STB or DVR has IEEE 1394 ports. If true, are they active? Can I record to D-VHS? How about to a PC?

pictures i've seen show motorola cable boxes, firewire recording works great with motorola boxes, fcc mandates that any HD enable box have firewire enabled. D-VHS should be a go, PC will be determined by 5C, my guess is that verizon will be using the same line of moto boxes so many other places use

Since the fiber is not shared with the neighbors as cable is, it might be possible to send each house only the channels it is subscribed to, in which case scrambling would be unnecessary. But I don't know if they do that.

personally i think it would both good and bad if they did this...bad side is that they have an exact record of every show you watch...good side is imagine all that bandwidth available for HD if they only have to send a couple simultaneous shows (1 show for each digital box you have) to your house instead of every channel all at once

The rate for standard service is a bit lower than cable (though still more than I'd like to pay for the few channels I would ever watch) and the price for the Showtime/Starz/Encore bundle is so low I'd probably take that too. But the DVR price is a bit high and the charges to change the level of service, other than to drop it completely, are downright punitive. That suggests Verizon plans to bait and switch: sign people up for a good price, then jack the rates so high they know many will want to cut back.

well with DSL and Fios internet that seem to prefer signing us up for a contract (1 year contract gets you a discounted rate sort of thing), but i have found the rates with or without contract better than comcast, and the service has never gone down, unlike my friends with comcast

i actually called and asked and turns out that verizon will void the 1-year contracts with no fee, no questions asked if you move somewhere and verizon doesn't offer service there, so I have found them to be fair and pretty hassle free

But the DVR price is a bit high ...

How much?

How much?

In the pricing guide it was listed at 12 or 13 bucks a month.... thats hardly "high". (from the official verizon thread had a pdf with pricing)

that includes the HD DVR box, and the DVR fee?

thats a few bucks less than Im paying for my 6412 through adelphia. certainly not what i would call high.

pictures i've seen show motorola cable boxes, firewire recording works great with motorola boxes, fcc mandates that any HD enable box have firewire enabled. D-VHS should be a go, PC will be determined by 5C, my guess is that verizon will be using the same line of moto boxes so many other places use
You are mistaken. Those rules apply to cable providers. Verizon does not come under that provision.

Yes, that (12.95) includes the HD DVR and all associated fees. A "standard" HD box is 9.95/month.

...Since the fiber is not shared with the neighbors as cable is, it might be possible to send each house only the channels it is subscribed to, in which case scrambling would be unnecessary. But I don't know if they do that.



ALL Cable TV signals are on the line, the tuner "slices" out the channel you want to watch.

When watching IPTV, (unlike cable TV or satellite TV), the only channel sent to your STB is the one you are watching.

They will likely migrate to IPTV one day, but at this point in time, they are going with the proven cable tv technology.

Not true.

Verizon's video offering is IPTV. 24 IP streams, each stream carrying multiple program ID's (video and audio channels).

They are using the BMR 1200 broadband video router from BigBand Networks and delivering the video over GigE SM fiber.

Since the fiber is not shared with the neighbors as cable is, it might be possible to send each house only the channels it is subscribed to, in which case scrambling would be unnecessary. But I don't know if they do that.

No reason Verizon couldn't adopt what the older cable companies have in the works: switched broadcasting (SB), summarized in this recent post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593023). SB differs from per-channel subscribing but in some ways has similar results. -- John

EDIT:Perhaps someone will differentiate between SB and IPTV (post above); they seem very similar. IPTV = internet protocol TV.

Not true.

Verizon's video offering is IPTV. 24 IP streams, each stream carrying multiple program ID's (video and audio channels).

They are using the BMR 1200 broadband video router from BigBand Networks and delivering the video over GigE SM fiber.

Sorry bud but your wrong. They are using the BMR 1200 for VOD services and two way talking only. They aren't using IPTV today nor in the next couple of years but they do have plans in the long term to go all IPTV. For now they will be using QAM 256 with switched broadcasting hardware.

No reason Verizon couldn't adopt what the older cable companies have in the works: switched broadcasting (SB), summarized in this recent post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593023). SB differs from per-channel subscribing but in some ways has similar results. -- John

EDIT:Perhaps someone will differentiate between SB and IPTV (post above); they seem very similar. IPTV = internet protocol TV.

Switched broadcasting and IPTV do work in the same type of way but they are different. For a basic overview of the difference please read below.

With IPTV everything is sent as data or packets so you would tune a TV channel in a similiar way to streaming a music video from say Yahoo Launch.

With switched broadcasting the TV program is still being sent as a video file and not as a data file. So in simple terms you would tune into a channel number and the set-top box would tell the head-end to send "this" feed down to this box. This feed is still in MPEG2 and QAM 256 is still being used. By using switched video a cable company if in the event of hardware failure can switch off to sending everything down the pipe even if that means not being able to offer the full lineup of channels. Its better to have to not offer 10+ HD channels compared to not being able to offer anything at all. That is the drawback with IPTV is that if that hardware crashes and burns you have no backup.

I hope this gives you an idea of the difference of these two options.

MPEG2? Is there a reason why FIOS wouldn't use MPEG4? (perhaps availability of compatible cable boxes and/or other equipment?) It would be nice if the 160GB of the DVR could record more due to the better compression ratio of MPEG4.

MPEG-4 chips are likely still somewhat expensive, and MPEG-2 chips are likely dirt cheap. Plus, the only thing that MPEG-4 does is improve bandwidth efficency. Since they have Fiber, that really isn't an issue for them today. And when it does become an issue, MPEG-4 will be much cheaper and possibly superceeded.

You are right about the DVR, but I don't think that gain motivates them.

Right now all of their boxes support MPEG4 and MPEG2. With that said because they will be using switched video hardware and pretty much have tons of bandwidth they didn't feel that the big extra cost for the MPEG4 head-end encoders was worth it at this point in time. When and if that changes they can switch everything out without even requiring one box swapout because everything would be done at the head-ends.

So in simple terms the encoders aren't worth the extra money.

Right now all of their boxes support MPEG4 and MPEG2. With that said because they will be using switched video hardware and pretty much have tons of bandwidth they didn't feel that the big extra cost for the MPEG4 head-end encoders was worth it at this point in time. When and if that changes they can switch everything out without even requiring one box swapout because everything would be done at the head-ends.

So in simple terms the encoders aren't worth the extra money. Thanks.

It's taken three months to get the regular FiOS service up and running in the Hummelstown/Hershey area of PA. Now Available !

I wonder how long it will take for TV service after the franchise agreement is approved ?

Verizon was just awarded state wide franchise in Texas. Yee Haw!

The Ethernet port in your ONT is for data service.

As it was explained to me, coax will be used to deliver video to the STBs and there will be a CAT-5e line from the router to 1 STB to handle VOD. I'll try to grill my manager for info since he just attended a video install class this week.

AS far as switching to FIOS TV from D*. Not too sure. Having lifetime DVR service through D* may keep me there. Unless they're gonna run a great deal for employees.


Any confirmed dates for video rollout in Northern NJ? Are the franchise agreements signed yet?

not yet.. Town by town right now..
www.tvchoicenj.com



Any confirmed dates for video rollout in Northern NJ? Are the franchise agreements signed yet?

According to this... http://www.verizon-media.com/iWeb/vz/100105vz.pdf

next in line in no particular order are Florida, Virgina, California, and Massachusetts

I can't wait to see this in MA

I can't wait to see this in MA

I can't wait either. I'm looking to get the heck out of Florida because the stress of every hurricane lately has been killing me. I'm looking to move to either Boston or Portsmouth which will have fiber either today or in the near future. I think I've got my mind set for Portsmouth, HN which does have most areas installed with fiber. I sure won't be buying a house unless the area is wired for fiber to order that day.

Heck does anyone know if Boston College has an opening for a professor in Political Science. I have my Masters and I graduated at Boston College in this major with a GPA of 3.78 so I'm pretty darn sure I can get a job. I even got drunk for nearly my entire senior year for crying out load.

I'm in Belmont, MA and started digging through the minutes of some of the town meetings that happen. I was ecstatic to see that back over the summer negotiations began on the franchise agreement so I thinking of actually popping into the next meeting to see where it's at. Unfortunately the most recent minutes were July so I wasn't able to find anything more recent, but i was just happy to hear it is making progress.

I can't wait to see this in MAInternet or video? Somebody I work with lives in Bedford and has been able to order FIOS internet service for a at least a month or so. I'm sure it will be a while before I see it in my neck of the woods. :(

larry

If you want to get a feel for where FIOS video is coming next simply track the availability of the voice and data network. That is always up and running 1st with video lagging as they wade through the video franchise agreements with each municipality.

Recent press releases indicated an agreement was reached in Massapequa Park, NY. That is pending with the PSC for approval.

I have been reading up closely on this and it apears that this is going to blow the doors off of the incumbent video providers.

Verizons web site will tell you if you qualify for the voice/data product. As soon as its available in my area I am switching. They have so much bandwidth availability that they will be the leader in HD and VOD going forward.

A few things I have gleamed from talking to friends who have FIOS data. Fiber is to side of your house. From there its taditional delivery, so you can utilize existing inside infrastructure. All pipes are dedicated, no more shared bandwidth like with a cable modem.

From reading reviews in the Texas area:

TV packages are very robust, and they seem to be signing additional providers at a rapid clip. No special HD or DVR packages....simply the cost of the set-top box rental.

Internet or video? Somebody I work with lives in Bedford and has been able to order FIOS internet service for a at least a month or so. I'm sure it will be a while before I see it in my neck of the woods. :(

larry

No I am looking for the video

not yet.. Town by town right now..
www.tvchoicenj.com


I sent a letter to the local politicians through the TVCHOICENJ.com web site, and one week later got a phone call from a guy who was hired by my township (Lawrenceville NJ) to advise them on Verizon. He told me, and believe me he knows what's really going on, and spent an hour with me on the phone, that Verizon could have a TV franchise in this area just by asking, which they HAVE NOT DONE. Instead, they are trying to get a statewide franchise, which makes their life a lot easier since they wouldn't have to bargain with each municipality, and because one statewide franchise makes renewals very easy - you only have to deal with one renewal date. He also told me that Verizon is offering to pay double the rate Comcast pays statewide, but what Verizon DOESN'T tell you is that they will increase a certain fee from pennys to over $2.00 on all customers so the customer will end up paying for their franchise costs. He said the internet wiring is almost done in this area, and that internet service should be available in the very beginning of 2006.
He said that he is forwarded all the form letters from the TVCHOICENJ.com web, and that he plans to call everyone who submits it because it contains some inaccuracies.

He told me Comcast does not down rez HD signals like Directv. I told him I'm interested in Verizon cause I want the best quality picture on all channels, including SD channels, and I believe Verizon is the only provider that will be able to give me that.

but what Verizon DOESN'T tell you is that they will increase a certain fee from pennys to over $2.00 on all customers so the customer will end up paying for their franchise costs.

I think this is really only relevant if Verizon charges the same as a similar package at comcast...looking at their FIOS internet service I find it to be a much better deal then the equivalent at comcast. You either pay less for equivalent content or you can pay the same and get much more (ie...15Mbps (verizon) vs 7Mbps(comcast)).

And when i mentioned franchises before I was talking about video franchise being negotiated in Belmont, MA. Apparently here they are doing town by town franchise agreements, hence the negotiations with my town specifically, so call your local cable/IT town board and you can probably find out what is going on. I got the information from my town's website by looking at the minutes of the most recent Info Tech Advisory board.

I've been a FIOS internet subscriber now for over a year and have been extremely pleased with the quality of service and speed. I've had virtually no interruption of service during that time. I've been blessed to have FIOS TV service now for over 2 months. This service too has been very good. There have been some minor glitches along the way but nothing major. The picture quality is very good in my opinion. I was a 4+ year subscriber to E* with their HD package. I think the pq is probably better than DISH on both the SD and HD channels. I have no regrets of letting DISH go at this time. The channel line-up has been posted several places and the HD offerings are quite adequate. The pricing is very competitive with DISH and other cable offerings. Based on the fact that I have such good internet service and no weather interference with my TV, I'll be staying with FIOS for a long time.

John

Our neighborhood (Manhasset in Long Island, New York) was wired last summer and I was offered a deal for the FIOS internet service that was the same as I was paying for Verizon DSL. On top of that they offered a promotional $5.00 a month discount for one year since I already have a verizon telephone package (local, regional and long distance for one charge).

I had a cable modem for about a year and the service was okay but they wanted to charge extra for more than one computer. Cablevision which ran the service pushed my rates up from about $30 a month to $45. I switched to Verizon DSL which gave me a free router about a year ago and their regular rate was $30 monthly plus taxes with no planned increase. In theory the cablemodem was faster (about double) but I noticed no difference. Several months ago I switched to FIOS and the transmission rate was much greater (I took the cheaper package of five MBS). In fact I performed a speed test (upload and download) and found FIOS 17 times faster than my DSL service!

Verizon has started to negotiate to provide video services locally but a letter in our local newspaper indicated that our local cable commission turned Verizon down because they did not offer local channels as does Cablevision. The result has been a furor as many residents dislike Cablevision, our local provider, intensely and have accused the commission of selling out. Cablevision's service is awful and they are expensive as I am one of their unhappy customers.

I then got our cable commission representative on the phone and he stated that Verizon must offer the same "services" as Cablevision (local programming, etc.). I told him that most people could care less about local programming and would prefer Verizon without it to Cablevision with it. I think he was taken aback by the communities response and he did state that they were making efforts to get competition to Cablevision. He was hoping that the Verizon package would be available by the end of the year but he was not too optimistic as Cablevision was threatening some kind of legal action (which they do best in lieu of service and value).

Cablevision has tried to fight back by offering a package of telephone and internet services for $30 a month each as long as you have their video services but this lasts for one year when rates go up. Verizon has responded by offering a $15 a month DSL package and they are promising a real good deal for a combined telephone, internet and video package.

I tried to get details from Verizon concerning their video package and the person I spoke to said it would be equivalent to DirectTV which would be an improvement over what Cablevision offers.

Nothing like real competition which, thanks to your local congressman has up to now been non-existent.

John

John,

I posted about this on dslreports.com, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14566580, and how I agree with you assertion that the commission is selling out to Cablevision, heck they get free cable for just being on the commission. The next meeting I am going to be there to voice my disgust with the lack of movement and truth from the commission. Thanks for providing more info as well.

FIOS Expanded Basic:

1-49 Basic channels - ABC, NBC, CBC, Fox and much more.

Entertainment
50-USA Network
51-TNT
52-TBS
53-FX
54-Spike TV

Sports
60-ESPN
61-ESPN Classic
62-ESPNews
63-ESPNU
64-ESPN2
68-Speed Channel

News
70-CNN
71-CNN Headline News
72-Fox News
73-CNBC
74-MSNBC
75-Bloomberg TV
76-CNN International
77-CNBC World
78-ABC News Now
79-C-SPAN
80-C-SPAN 2
81-C-SPAN 3
89-The Weather Channel

Information
90-Discovery Channel
91-National Geographic
92-Science Channel
93-Discovery Times
94-Pentagon Channel
95-The Military Channel
96-Military History Channel
97-History Channel International
98-History Channel
99-Biography Channel
100-Animal Planet
101-TLC (The Learning Channel)

Women
110-Lifetime
111-Lifetime Movie Network
112-Lifetime Real Women
113-Soapnet
114-Oxygen

Shopping
120-QVC
121-HSN
122-Shop at Home
123-America's Store
125-Jewelry
126-EXPO
127-Shop NBC

Home & Leisure
130-Style
131-Discovery Health
132-Wisdom
133-Fit TV
134-Food Network
135-Home & Garden Television (HGTV)
136-Fine Living
137-DIY (Do It Yourself)
138-Discovery Home
139-Wealth TV
140-Travel Channel

Pop Culture
150-Sci-Fi Channel
151-A&E
152-Crime & Investigation Network
153-Court TV
154-GSN
155-Bravo
156-TRIO
157-Logo
158-Ovation
159-BBC America
160-Comedy Central
161-E! Entertainment Television
162-Fox Reality
163-Fuel
164-ABC Family

Music
170-MTV
171-MTV2
173-MTV Jams
174-MTV Hits
175-VH1
176-VH1 Classic
177-VH1 Soul
179-BET Jazz
180-CMT
181-VH1 Country
182-Great American Country
183-Gospel Music Channel
184-BET Gospel
185-Soundtrack Channel

Movies
190-Turner Classic Movie
192-Fox Movie Channel

Family
200-Hallmark Channel
202-Family Net
203-AmericanLife TV
204-TV Land

Children
210-Disney
211-Toon Disney
212-Nickelodeon
213-Nick Too
214-Nick Toons
215-GAS
216-Noggin
217-Cartoon
218-Boomerang
219-Discovery Kids

People & Culture
230-BET
231-TV One
232-Black Family Channel
234-Galavision
235-Mun2
236-Sí TV
237-AZN Television

Religion
240-EWTN
241-INSP
242-I-Life
243-Church
244-JCTV
411-Verizon Information

600-646 Digital Music

HDTV Broadcast**
801-808-Please consult the Interactive Programming Guide for local listings

HDTV National**
810-TNT HDTV
811-ESPN HDTV
812-ESPN 2 HDTV
814-NFL Network HDTV
817-HD Net
818-HD Net Movies
819-Universal HDTV
820-Discovery HDTV
821-Wealth TV HD

http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/channel.aspx

The politics surrounding this is ridiculous. Competition is good for the consumer, yet you have local officials and incumbent cable companies trying to be a roadblock to this.

It is critical that everyone in a region where this is being developed pressure their local government officals. Remind them that you are a voting resident of their district and will make certain to take it out on them at the polls if they do not invite competition into your neighborhood.

Even if you dont want this service, dont you think its presence will force your local cable company to improve service or lower prices?

If you hang an analog TV or VCR on the cable, what do you get?

If you hang a digital receiver that handles unscrambled QAM on the cable, what do you get?

Some reports say the Verizon STB or DVR has IEEE 1394 ports. If true, are they active? Can I record to D-VHS? How about to a PC?

Does the STB provide simultaneous HD and composite/S-Video outputs, or must I select one or the other?

Since the fiber is not shared with the neighbors as cable is, it might be possible to send each house only the channels it is subscribed to, in which case scrambling would be unnecessary. But I don't know if they do that.

Answering the first question, you can subscribe and get a "basic" analog service, which I believe are just your local channels, and you DO NOT need a box for the service, and you should be able to hook it up to your tv and get the channels. If you want any of the expanded basic channels you HAVE to have the box, as it decodes the channels. This information is confirmed on their webpage:

Basic service package also available. Basic provides access to local TV channels, community and educational programming for $12.95 a month.

Verizon FIOS TV - Packages and Pricing (http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/FiosTVpackage.aspx)

Answering the second question, I have not heard any people that have the service give much information, but if the firewire (IEEE1394) is active on the box, then you should be able to record to DVHS and capture to your computer, but again, until someone with the service confirms this, I don't have the answer. I too, would like to know the question to that, because at that point, someone could let us know the bitrate for their programming and see how much better it is than anything else.

As far as the third question, since it is a Motorola box, it should output simultaneously SD and HD, as Motorola's cable boxes do.

Verizon has started to negotiate to provide video services locally but a letter in our local newspaper indicated that our local cable commission turned Verizon down because they did not offer local channels as does Cablevision. The result has been a furor as many residents dislike Cablevision, our local provider, intensely and have accused the commission of selling out. Cablevision's service is awful and they are expensive as I am one of their unhappy customers.

Verizon's FIOS TV does offer local channels at least in Keller, TX, the FIRST and ONLY city offering FIOS TV at this time. I think Verizon does plan to offer local channels in ALL the cities they plan to offer it to, but I can't confirm it. OBviously for them to fully compete with cable and satellite, they would have to offer the local channels. You might want to research that issue locally and confirm if Verizon was going to offer local channels in your city.

Verizon's FIOS TV does offer local channels at least in Keller, TX, the FIRST and ONLY city offering FIOS TV at this time. I think Verizon does plan to offer local channels in ALL the cities they plan to offer it to, but I can't confirm it. OBviously for them to fully compete with cable and satellite, they would have to offer the local channels. You might want to research that issue locally and confirm if Verizon was going to offer local channels in your city.

They will be offering both SD and HD local channels in all the markets they will serve.

Are they offering sports packages yet? ie, NHL center ice, MLB extra innings?

In my posting concerning a discussion with a Coble Commission rep I meant public Access channels, not local channels. Cablevision provides serveral channels that are public access and the commission wants Verizon to make the same offer and perhaps even some money to support a studio.

My position is let Cablevision offer public access channels and Verizon none and let the consumer decide. I bet most will say to heck with Cablevision and their public access offerings.

John

PS-I intend to show up at our next village meeting and make a fuss about failure to push through a franchise agreement for Verizon. If everybody did this we might get quicker action.

John

I got a knock on my door last night from a teenager going door to door selling FIOS TV in my neighborhood (Keller, TX). I had to help him out quite a bit with his sales pitch, but he made a sale last night.

I'm going to get the HD DVR box. My question to anyone who knows is: what kind of connection goes to the box? My FIOS demarc is on the detached garage and I've run Cat5 into the house, and have punched down 5 ports behind the TV. If the box runs on cat5, it'll be the easiest installation the installer has ever done.

If I need to run RG6, I'd like to know now, before the installer shows up, because I want the jack on an inside wall and my experience with the installers is they won't work in an unfinished attic and will only install jacks by drilling through the brick on an outside wall.

Yes, you need RG6.
http://www.i4u.com/article4365.html

Yes, I can indeed confirm that you need RG-6. As I posted in another thread, I've got all 3 types of boxes that Verizon offers - SD, HD, HD-DVR.

John

Rats.

That's gonna be a PITA of a cable pull. :(

It seems, judging by our local newspaper, the Manhasset Press letters to the editor, pressure is heating up on our local cable commission to approve a Verizon FIOS TV franchise. Local commissions on Long Island appear to be throwing obstacles in the way by making all sorts of demands to consider franchise approval and only one area (Massapequa) has rewarded a franchise though a number of areas are wired up.

Commissioners have also been accused of accepting free cablevision service from our local monopolist, Cablevision, but I have not verified this. I suggested to a commission person that they make it known if this is not true. I will continue to make noise through letters, calls, attendance at meetings, etc. to helpush the process along.

John

I got a knock on my door last night from a teenager going door to door selling FIOS TV in my neighborhood (Keller, TX). I had to help him out quite a bit with his sales pitch, but he made a sale last night.

I'm going to get the HD DVR box. My question to anyone who knows is: what kind of connection goes to the box? My FIOS demarc is on the detached garage and I've run Cat5 into the house, and have punched down 5 ports behind the TV. If the box runs on cat5, it'll be the easiest installation the installer has ever done.

If I need to run RG6, I'd like to know now, before the installer shows up, because I want the jack on an inside wall and my experience with the installers is they won't work in an unfinished attic and will only install jacks by drilling through the brick on an outside wall.


Send him over here, bad pitch and all! As a matter of fact, they can't throw a bad pitch with Fios :)

If I need to run RG6, I'd like to know now, before the installer shows up, because I want the jack on an inside wall and my experience with the installers is they won't work in an unfinished attic and will only install jacks by drilling through the brick on an outside wall.I'm certain that the TV does indeed require the RG-6 cabling. So run it now. I've heard that the VOD does use IP/Cat5, but I don't know for certain.

I'm definitely getting Verizon TV ... I've had FIOS since last spring and have not seen one blackout or service interruption the entire time ... I was having constant problems with COX high speed internet, and I can't wait to cut all ties to that company ... plus, if everything I'm hearing is true, my bill will be significantly less with better PQ ... how can I not switch?

I went with DirecTV about a year and a half ago because I'd seen how DVRs with cable service looked. The quality was somewhat degraded because the cable box was decompressing the signal and the DVR was recompressing the signal for storage and then decompressing the signal again for playback.

Do the DVRs from Fios have the same problem? Does the signal look degraded, or is the DVR receiving and storing the compressed digital signal and then decompressing it only once for display?

Well, the Verizon box is the same Motorola Cable box that the cable companies use. I'm sure there are some hardware tweeks, but it likely behaves the same.

Fios and cable DVRs both act the exact same:

Digital channels - playback is the same quality as live broadcast

Analog channels - degredation on playback

The difference ... of course ... being that all channels are supposed to be available digitally via Fios while cable has traditionally had a large analog-only lineup (those "lower 100" channels). In which case Fios has the advantage for those "Basic" and "Extended Basic" channels.

However, many cable plants are implementing "Digital Simulcast" ... at which point all channels are available digitally ... at which point for both Fios and cable playback will look the exact same as live ...

As far as I can tell, there is not any degredation on the HD channels. I haven't recorded much SD (digital or analog) but what I have recorded doesn't appear to be too bad.

It is true that much of the FIOS offering is digital.


John

I would switch to Verizon just to get HDNET Movies

JJ,

Just a quick question here.. I currently have fios internet and am greatly looking forward to the release of fios tv.. Anyway.. when purchasing the verizon tv service.. Does the $40/month include a basic SD box? I'm curious, because we currently have 3 receivers for directv, and so I was wondering if we'd just be charged for 2 additional stb's, correct? One SD box is included w/ the sub, and any additional ones you have to pay the fees for, correct? I just want to know exactly how much it'll cost. Also, is there any discount given to fios internet/tv subscribers? Thanks.

Mike:

I'm not 100% certain on that but I believe that you will have to pay for 3 boxes ($3.95 apiece for the SD). My bill has been kinda quirky due to the trial period which is now up so I'm a bit uncertain on that. I do know that they do not offer a SD DVR. HD boxes (standard or PVR) or more expensive 9.95 or 12.95 respectively.

Sorry I can't be more definitive on that first box but I believe that I am paying for 3 right now.

John

They just activated FIOS internet in my area (Lawrenceville NJ) and I was REALLY surprised that the 30 MBPS package costs $179 PER MONTH while the 15 MBPS package costs $44.95 per month.

Why in the world are they pricing it so high for 30 MBPS? If they had a reasonable rate, let's say even up to $69 per month for the 30 MBPS package they'd get a lot of subscribers. With the $179 per month they will get ZERO residential customers, and they obviously are trying to price out residential customers from that package.

Is ANYONE out there getting the 30 MBPS package and what do you pay?????

Are you using their wireless router and does their wirless G router actually transfer the full 15 or 30 MBPS rate, and does their wireless router support VPNs?

Nhey,

While I admit the jump from 15-30Mbps is very steep, why in God's name would you NEED a 30Mbps connection, for a home? I have the 5Mb/2Mb and I am very content. I could see why some people might want the 15Mbps connection, also considering it's very reasonably priced, but 30Mbps is certainly overkill. What's the upload speed w/ the 30Mbps, maybe that's where the premium is coming from?

Either way, I see no need for someone to need 30Mbps d/l speeds unless you have a small army for a family all using the same connection, or you do a massive amount of illegal downloading, in which case it's still debatable whether 30Mbps is any better than 15 because you're still waiting on the host...

I wouldn't get your feathers ruffled over such a small issue. Cable was price gouging around here before Verizon offered Fios w/ 4Mbps/768Kb for $55/month, which was very upsetting. I as well as 99% of verizon's customers could care less about having a 30Mbps connection.

EDIT: A quick check on verizon's webpage and yup, it's exactly what I expected.. It's a 30Mbps/5Mbps connection. For $180/month that is NOT a bad price. 30/5 are incredibly fast speeds. I'd be curious to see where you'll find a faster conection for the $. You could very easily run a small server off of this connection w/ these speeds.

In some areas, 30mbit/5mbit is around $60/month

Thanks. I'm going with the 15 mb per second connection, and really looking forward to it. I currently have Comcast at 6 mb/second but don't really get that cause of high use in my neighborhood degrading my speed. In New Jersey, they are offering FIOS internet at only $29.95 per month for the first year. Great price. Comcast's price is about $45 per month.

HDTVfreak - can you name some locations where the 30 mb/second rate is $60?

ALSO - what model D-LINK router does Verizon use for FIOS, and is it the standard flavor 802.11g or the "better higher speed" version of 802.11g?

I've been a FIOS internet subscriber now for over a year and have been extremely pleased with the quality of service and speed. I've had virtually no interruption of service during that time. I've been blessed to have FIOS TV service now for over 2 months. This service too has been very good. There have been some minor glitches along the way but nothing major. The picture quality is very good in my opinion. I was a 4+ year subscriber to E* with their HD package. I think the pq is probably better than DISH on both the SD and HD channels. I have no regrets of letting DISH go at this time. The channel line-up has been posted several places and the HD offerings are quite adequate. The pricing is very competitive with DISH and other cable offerings. Based on the fact that I have such good internet service and no weather interference with my TV, I'll be staying with FIOS for a long time.

John


Lucky bastard :)

Here's a story on the FIOS service in Fairfax County:

Herndon Wired, Ready for Cable TV From Verizon

By Arshad Mohammed
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, November 19, 2005; D01

It took six hours to hook up Jeff Dorman's 50-inch set to Verizon's new TV service but, in the end, he was pleased.

"Drag racing in high-def -- I'm in heaven," the Herndon resident said as he watched Formula One cars zip down a track in crisp color.

Dorman's Herndon basement -- with two computers, two phone lines and a huge TV -- is one of the sites where a new era in telecommunications is dawning. Verizon Communications Inc., a phone company, is unveiling its cable TV service, even as cable companies are marketing Internet telephone technology. The industry's biggest powers are fighting over increasingly wired consumers such as Dorman, dueling to offer them bundled suites of phone, TV and Internet service.

Verizon plans to announce next week that parts of Herndon are fully wired and ready to become the second market in the nation where its Fios TV service is available, offering some Northern Virginia consumers fresh competition and the promise of lower prices.

For Verizon, the cable that it has been laying in Northern Virginia, suburban Maryland and 13 other states is a multibillion-dollar lifeline it hopes will save the company as its traditional telephone business dies off.

But it will be years, if ever, before Verizon turns a profit on its huge investment.

"Verizon is betting its future on Fios," said Banc of America Securities LLC analyst David W. Barden. "The risk . . . is that it is overspending for the reward it will ultimately receive."

It will also be competing with cable companies that have far more TV experience and can add Internet and phone service for less than Verizon is spending on its new network.

Cox Communications Inc., the cable provider in Herndon and most of Fairfax County, dismissed the new service from Verizon.

"What Verizon has been talking about for the past several months is something we have been doing now for well over a year," Cox spokesman Alexander N. Horwitz said. "We believe that we offer a video, voice and data solution that has proven quite popular with consumers in Fairfax County. . . . Verizon is simply playing catch-up."

For Dorman, the single, slender fiber-optic cable that now brings him TV, phone and Internet service is a way to cut his bills by getting all three from one company.

Dorman and his wife, Vicky, expect to buy the services -- which now run them about $260 dollars a month -- for $151.85 plus an estimated $12.30 in taxes, fees and surcharges. They don't know the exact cost, because Verizon has not given them a detailed estimate and they have not gotten their first bill.

"For me it's all about money. I'm not the technical one, but I pay the bills," said Vicky Dorman.

By ordering faster Internet service (up to 30 megabits per second), the family may also finally end conflicts over who is doing what online.

Their current 1.5-megabit-per-second service could not carry Jeff's Internet music trading, the children's Counter-Strike and World of Warcraft online gaming, and Vicky's Web surfing without kicking somebody off.

"I can't count the number of fights I had with my brother," said the Dormans' daughter Stephanie, 21. "It created trauma all around."

Verizon, which first introduced Fios TV in Keller, Tex., two months ago, plans to charge $39.95 for its flagship offer of more than 175 music and video channels. It will charge $12.95 for a basic package of 15 to 39 local broadcast and community channels and $32.95 for a bilingual package of nearly 140 channels.

Cox charges $41.99 for its comparable "expanded basic" service, which has 86 channels; $17.99 for its basic package of 41 channels; and $30.44 for a bilingual Spanish and English service with 31 TV channels 46 music channels.

Verizon has won TV franchises from the town of Herndon, the city of Fairfax and Fairfax County. It is in talks with other municipalities and has begun laying fiber in Anne Arundel, Howard, Montgomery, Prince George's, Arlington and Loudoun counties.

It is an expensive business with many pitfalls.

When Verizon workers arrived on Tuesday to connect the fiber-optic wire to the Dormans' home, they accidentally cut through their own old copper telephone lines. While they were waiting for that to be repaired, they dug another hole and sliced Dorman's underground sprinkler system.

On Thursday, two technicians began hooking up the "triple play" of voice, phone and Internet service. More than four hours later, they were nearly done but the picture on Dorman's prized 50-inch Sony had a black border around it.

It took close to an hour to figure out the problem -- requiring Dorman to get down on his knees to reconnect some wires technicians had plugged in wrong.

Customers in Keller, Tex., said the company's workers had lavished time and attention on them.

"They have done it right. You can see that they must have horrendous installation capital tied up in this deal," said John L. Baker, an American Airlines pilot who recently got Fios TV service.

Baker, and others, said he worried Verizon may increase prices.

"That is going to be the acid test," he said. "You wonder -- are they just pricing the project just enough to get everybody on board and then . . . they start raising prices 5 percent a year and start recovering the tremendous investment they have made?"

Marilyn H. O'Connell, a Verizon senior vice president, said that was not the company's intention, noting that it faces competition from cable and satellite services.

"That's not my grand plan here, to get you in and then creep you up," she said, saying the company was underpricing its competitors to get customers to switch.

"You have got to give customers a reason to move and you can't take advantage of that when you do," she said. "And by the way, they will have an opportunity to go to the competitor -- it won't be like we'll be the only game in town."

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

I think one of the most telling things about the state of HD is the fact that this article never mentions it anywhere in the entire story! The "50 inch prize TV" is clearly an HD TV. They never once mention HD, and the pricing structure includes neither a price for HD or what HD is available. It is a sobering thought that as 2006 rolls around, no one but the people like us at this forum seems to really care about it.

SMK

Also, since Verizon appears to be going with standard cable STBs and other delivery hardware, the article--and other sources--suggest there are no firm plans to take advantage of fiber optic's nearly unlimited bandwidth compared to coaxial cable--with the right hardware. With cable/OTA/DBS customers complaining about picture breakup or fuzzy images from multicasting, reformatting (D*'s HDLite), and over-stuffed spectrum, all-fiber delivery has huge potential advantages. Instead of squeezing downlinked ~45-Mbps signals from program sources to <19 Mbps for typical cable delivery, the full 45-Mbps could be delivered to Verizon subscribers. While the boosted fidelity might not be noticed on typical displays now, suspect it could be seen with the growing crop of large-screen 1080p displays.

NHK in Japan recently demonstrated, experimentally, how optical fiber wavelength multiplexing (combining different light 'colors') can far surpass other delivery technologies. For their 7680 x 4320 Super Hi-Vision (http://www.eet.com/news/latest/technology/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=173402762) video system, outlined in earlier reports (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5713800&&#post5713800), NHK transmitted non-compressed Hi-Vision signals divided into 16 wavelengths. The broadcast-type signal totaled 24 Gbps (billion) versus typical cable HDTV of <19 Mbps (million bits per second). A ~19-Mbps HD signal, uncompressed, is <1.2 Gbps ( video payload (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2516871#post2516871)), although the great compression automatically filters away much video detail. (As a Verizon customer I've signed up for FIOS, but not holding my breath awaiting access in Manhattan.)-- John

"Drag racing in high-def -- I'm in heaven," the Herndon resident said as he watched Formula One cars zip down a track in crisp color.Formula has nothing to do with Drag Racing. Ahh, the Wash Post. This make as much sense as a Hockey player scoring a touch down, or a basketball player getting a triple.

Wow, that's a good article. This at least gives hope that the Verizon TV service will be available very soon to the Northern Va. area. We've had Fios now for a little while, and I can't wait to ditch directv and get fios tv. The price will come out to being about the same, but I can expect much better PQ and plenty of hd channels. Although OTA HD programming is nice since it's free, unless you have a good roof antenna I find myself having to adjust the indoor antenna at times, and little break ups here and there can be annoying. W/ hd locals over fiber this will be a non-issue! So verizon has started tv service for people in herndon?

ALSO - what model D-LINK router does Verizon use for FIOS, and is it the standard flavor 802.11g or the "better higher speed" version of 802.11g?

I have the D-Link Wireless DI-624!

Thanks. I'm going with the 15 mb per second connection, and really looking forward to it. I currently have Comcast at 6 mb/second but don't really get that cause of high use in my neighborhood degrading my speed. In New Jersey, they are offering FIOS internet at only $29.95 per month for the first year. Great price. Comcast's price is about $45 per month.

HDTVfreak - can you name some locations where the 30 mb/second rate is $60?

ALSO - what model D-LINK router does Verizon use for FIOS, and is it the standard flavor 802.11g or the "better higher speed" version of 802.11g?
go to www.dslreports.com they have a FIOS forum, I'm not sure of all the locations. Many good info there :)

Verizon Launching 2nd FiOS System

By John Eggerton Broadcasting & Cable

Washington, or at least one of its more prominent suburbs, can start watching telco TV this week.

Verizon, the most agressive telco video provider to date, is launching its second system this week, in the town of Herndon, Va., having secured a franchise to overbuild the market last July. Cox has the cable franchise there.

Washington will soon get more FiOS. Verizon struck an other franchise agreement last month with Fairifax County, the D.C. suburb that surrounds the separately incorporated Herndon.

Verizon is working to secure franchises in more than 200 other Virginia municipalities, but is is also hoping to get some regulatory relief in the form of legislation that would establish a state or nationwide franchising scheme, or that might do away with franchises entirely.

Telcos argue that not having to seek individual franchises will allow it to more quickly provide more competition in the multichannel video market, one of the Bush administration's, the FCC's and Congress's stated priorities.

Cable argues that if the franchising process is to be streamlined or short-cut, the same advantages should apply to cable.

Verizon's FiOS TV debuted in Keller, Tex., Sept. 22. Verizon. Texas' Public Utility Commission last month approved that state's first statewide franchise for telco video service. Verizon had filed for franchises in 21 communities under the state's new franchise law, the first of its kind in the country.

(from today’s Wall Street Journal)

“…AT&T executives say…technology will let it offer a new form of television with 1,000 or more channels available to consumers within the next 18 months. The company also plans to beam TV content to cellphones; offer targeted advertising on TV, much like Google offers on the Internet; and eventually provide thousands of programs and movies on demand…”

New to this thread...

Regarding the original question, here's my take.

I am currently a DirecTV subscriber. I have not gone HD with them because:
-DVR functionality is very high on my priority list, more than HD.
-the high cost of upgrading to the HD-DVR when it initially came out.
-the large number of problems reported with their HD-DVR
-the announcements that then followed regarding the change to MPEG-4 & the need to swap out equipment, (at some cost probably), when that occurs.
-the announcement that Tivo would no longer be the user interface for the DVR.

That said, if Verizon does not get FIOS-TV to my area by the time that DirecTV gets their act together, I will certainly stay with DirecTV.

So I guess my answer is:
Whomever gets it together first will get my business.
Though I must say I'm hoping it will be Verizon and will go with them in the event of a 'tie'.

Showdown on Long Island
November 23, 2005 8:11 AM PST
Verizon Communications and Cablevision are duking it out on Long Island, NY.

According to the Wall Street Journal and Business Week, which each published stories on Wednesday detailing the ongoing brawl in Massapequa Park, NY, things are getting pretty nasty.

It seems the companies are butting heads over Verizon's attempts to get video franchises in areas where Cablevision offers its service. According to the articles, Cablevision has launched a major smear campaign complete with newspaper advertisements and ant-Verizon flyers distributed throughout the town. The articles also say Cablevision has been throwing its weight around by bullying local officials, including the mayor. Cablevision has also filed a lawsuit against the city, which has made its way to the New York state Supreme Court.

Verizon is offering its new TV service to customers in areas where it has already built its new Fios fiber network. Verizon is spending billions of dollars to build the network that extends fiber directly into people's homes, giving them almost unlimited bandwidth capacity. Cablevision and other cable operators have accused Verizon of only providing the new Fios services in wealthy areas, ignoring low-income neighborhoods. Verizon has repeatedly denied these claims.

Long Island, isn't the only place where cable companies are putting up a fight. Battles are also heating up in Northern Virginia, where Verizon recently began offering Fios TV service.

http://news.com.com/2061-10785_3-5969069.html

is there a recent poll or study done somewhere that I can look at proving that people actually watch public access channels. I may be way off but in my personal experience I have never known anyone to watch public access content. The only thing I could ever imagine watching it for would be if they broadcast the local city hall meetings but again I know no one interested in their local politics and in my guide data it simply says "public access" so I would never have any idea when such a broadcast would be on.

Am I way off base or do people agree that getting public access studios setup for free by the cable company isn't something residents really care about?

The suburban New York community of Nyack has just approved a contract with Verizon to offer is FiOS digital TV system. It becomes the second New York municipality to sign on with Verizon. The local cable company, Cablevision, isn’t accepting the competition quietly. Here’s a story:

A Digital Dodge City


The high-stakes battle between Verizon and Cablevision over a town on Long Island
By Spencer E. Ante BusinessWeek.com
James Altadonna Jr. won a heated election in 2001 to unseat the incumbent mayor in Massapequa Park, a comfy middle-class suburb on the south shore of New York's Long Island, and he has since been reelected twice. But he has never had his reputation attacked as fiercely as this year, when he got caught in the middle of a fight between two of the country's most powerful communications companies.

The clash Altadonna has become embroiled in pits Cablevision Systems Corp. (), the sole provider of cable TV in Massapequa Park, against Verizon Communications Inc. (), which wants a license to offer a competing television service. Altadonna, who serves as mayor part-time and donates his $7,000 salary to the village, thinks Verizon should get its license so residents have more choice. Yet after he pushed through that approval, Cablevision on Oct. 17 slapped the village, its trustees, and Verizon with a lawsuit. Then a Cablevision-funded group distributed fliers and advertised in local papers, accusing the mayor of betraying his town.

Altadonna isn't backing down. The 45-year-old, who runs a local printing company and has lived with his wife and three children in Massapequa Park for 12 years, is sending residents a letter criticizing the fliers as "misleading and deceptive." He says Cablevision is simply trying to delay competition. "The scare tactics they use are ridiculous," he says. "You wouldn't think a billion-dollar company would pick on a mayor." Cablevision says it is not trying to prevent competition. Its goal is to stop Verizon from getting a special deal.

This is just one skirmish in perhaps the most contentious battle in the communications industry. A Digital Age equivalent of the Hatfields and the McCoys, Verizon and Cablevision are shooting it out in town after town across the New York region. Their battle reflects the changes sweeping the tech landscape, with cable companies trying to grab phone customers and phone companies jumping into the cable-TV business.

Yet the clash also shows the benefits of bare-knuckled competition. As they slug it out, Verizon and Cablevision are steadily coming out with better services and lower prices on everything from traditional telephone calling to speedy Net access. In August, Verizon introduced a low-end broadband service for $15 a month, half the price of its previous entry-level offering. In November, Cablevision unveiled broadband with speeds of as much as 50 megabits per second, trumping Verizon's 30 megabits. "Consumers end up getting more products with better prices and greater value," says analyst Anthony Noto of Goldman, Sachs & Co. ().

Their fight offers a study in contrasts. Cablevision is a combative, entrepreneurial outfit run by the eccentric father-and-son team Charles and James L. Dolan. James now runs the Bethpage (N.Y.) company, which also owns Madison Square Garden and the New York Knicks. Verizon is the quintessential corporate icon, a descendant of Ma Bell. Based in Manhattan, Verizon is headed by Ivan G. Seidenberg, a diplomatic exec who shuns the spotlight.

The wrangling dates back to late 2003, when Dolan's Cablevision became the first cable company to offer phone service over its fiber lines. With its stronghold in the New York region, Cablevision added phone customers quickly and now has more than 600,000. About 13% of the people who can get its phone service have signed up, giving Cablevision the highest success rate of any major cable company. Cablevision has also aggressively offered broadband service, and now claims 1.6 million subscribers. "They are going to fight Verizon every step of the way," says analyst Craig E. Moffett of Sanford C. Bernstein & Co.

THE SANDWICH INCIDENT

Seidenberg's response to such challenges has been a counterattack of head-spinning risk. Alone among the phone companies, he's spending billions to string fiber-optic lines into peoples' homes, so Verizon can offer them cable TV and blazing Net service that could one day reach 100 megabits. Verizon offers the Net service, dubbed FiOS, in hundreds of towns nationwide, but its TV service is being rolled out more slowly. Verizon needs to win government approval to offer TV, in most cases from each town or village.

As Massapequa Park demonstrates, the battles for those approvals can be bruising. Verizon began serious negotiations with the village over the summer and participated in a Sept. 12 public hearing on the issue. About the same time, Cablevision's director of franchise management, Jeffrey M. Clark, called the mayor and said the company was planning to run ads condemning the Verizon franchise in local papers. According to an affidavit from Altadonna, Clark offered to pull the ads if trustees postponed a vote on the agreement scheduled for later that month. Altadonna refused. Through a Cablevision spokesman, Clark denies the allegation.

The day trustees planned to vote on the new franchise, Sept. 26, they held another public meeting that hundreds of locals attended. During the hearing, Altadonna and the others took a 15-minute break to eat in a private room before they returned and approved Verizon's application. That 15-minute break is at the heart of Cablevision's lawsuit. The company alleges trustees violated the state's open meeting law by discussing the franchise behind closed doors. Altadonna says they simply ate sandwiches. "There's no question the village followed the law," he says.

Even after the vote, Cablevision has tried to persuade Massapequa Park residents to oppose Verizon. A few weeks later, a trade group, financed by Cablevision, sent flyers out accusing Altadonna of reneging on a promise to keep Verizon's cable equipment above street level. Still, most town residents seem to be on the mayor's side. "I wouldn't mind having some more competition," says Maria Walsh, a 42-year-old local.

Besides the lawsuit and the public relations campaign, Cablevision is appealing to New York regulators. (In New York, the state must confirm the franchises approved by local governments.) The cable company alleges Verizon got a sweetheart deal, with terms that are better than Cablevision's own. Among other things, Cablevision contends that Verizon isn't obligated to offer television service to every resident. "[The agreement] has loopholes that allow it to pick and choose neighborhoods," says a Cablevision spokesman. Altadonna and Verizon say that's not true.

The cable company is pushing hard to win over state regulators. It's sending letters to local mayors, urging them to lobby regulators to reject Verizon's Massapequa Park franchise, according to documents reviewed by BusinessWeek (click here and here for a sample). Cablevision's argument is that Massapequa Park could serve as a template for new cable franchises in other towns -- and that it's one that will poorly serve local communities.

Massapequa Park's fate should be decided soon. State regulators are expected to rule on Verizon's franchise in the coming weeks. And the state Supreme Court is expected to issue a decision in the Cablevision lawsuit next month. If state regulators approve the deal, Verizon plans to start offering cable TV, even if the suit is still in litigation.

Meanwhile, Altadonna is busy addressing one of the issues Cablevision has raised. On a recent sunny morning, he pulls up to the street where two Verizon cable boxes are located. The company's technicians are installing similar boxes 15 feet in the air and removing those near the ground. Rolling down his car window, Altadonna says, "I'm the mayor."

"This box is going to be taken away," says Brad Helford, a technician. "That's what you wanted, right?" Altadonna smiles. "Yup. I always live by what I say."

After he drives back to his office in Town Hall, Altadonna puts the finishing touches on his letter to village residents. "My integrity is not negotiable," it reads. "No malicious fliers, mailed by cowardly, spiteful individuals, will deter me from doing the right thing."

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_49/b3962098.htm

We in NJ (where Verizon is trying to get a statewide clearance rather than each town) are already starting to get strange commercials. I saw one recently stating that Verizon TV was "a bad idea" because they didn't offer (some kind of unspecified) service to "South Jersey". ????

At least this will employ those political-slime-commercial guys for a while longer - and probably get the same public reaction. Disgust, incomprehension, and "what's this Verizon TV stuff?" Honestly, I wasn't sure which side produced it.

have you seen the channel lineup for Verizon FIOS in Herdnon VA?

i would dump satellite in a nanosecond for the channel choice offered!!!!!

From looking at Fios site, I see they offer DVR services but from what I can tell, Non-Hd. Anybody know any different? That would be a very big reason for me not to switch.

The FIOS DVR is HD. They don't even offer an "SD" DVR but the HD one obviously records SD.

I've had mine now for about 3 months. I do have a problem with it in that it shows 50% full even with no programs showing in the list. I need to call and get a service tech to come out and replace it but I haven't done it yet.

John

Comes to FLA:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051206/nytu106.html?.v=33

"TEMPLE TERRACE, Fla., Dec. 6 /PRNewswire/ -- Verizon unveiled Verizon FiOS TV in Florida today to residents of this city of 21,000 northeast of Tampa, making it the first community in the state to feature the new service. Verizon will begin taking customer orders immediately and will make FiOS TV available in communities across Verizon's service territory next year."

whats the channel lineup for FIOS TV?

whats the channel lineup for FIOS TV?


http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/channel.aspx

Verizon starts TV service today
Verizon flips a switch in Temple Terrace to join the competition for providing television service.
By DAVE GUSSOW, Times Staff Writer
Published December 6, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TEMPLE TERRACE - The next skirmish in an increasingly contentious fight between phone and cable TV companies begins today when Verizon Communications flips the switch to provide TV service to this Hillsborough County community of 22,000.

But don't expect to be shocked and awed by a rapid deployment throughout the bay area: Verizon has only one other franchise agreement in this area - for unincorporated Manatee County - and only 43 agreements across the country.

In fact, only about 20 percent of Temple Terrace will initially have access to Verizon's FiOS service. Verizon began laying the fiber optic lines for the system here in January and received a franchise agreement from the city in May.

"This is just the beginning," Verizon spokesman Bob Elek said.

For consumers, the competition eventually will mean more choice and likely better pricing on TV, as well as phone, Internet and wireless services, which will be offered in bundles.

Cable companies - including Bright House Networks, the dominant cable company in this area, and Knology in Pinellas - already are offering phone services and are forming alliances with wireless carriers, such as Sprint.

In Keller, Texas, where Verizon started FiOS service in September, the cable TV incumbent, Charter Communications, began offering lower-priced introductory offers.

In the bay area, Verizon boosted the speed and cut the price of its digital subscriber line service for Internet access, while Bright House increased its access speed.

Verizon and Bright House have been exchanging barbs for months as competition has intensified. Bright House filed a complaint with the state Public Service Commission at one point. Verizon responded by talking about the rise of cable TV rates.

On Monday, Bright House spokesman Dan Ballister said simply, "We look forward to the challenge ahead," voicing confidence in its offerings and ability to provide good customer service.

Not all cable companies have been as cordial. In New York, Cablevision has fought Verizon's entry into some markets and criticized at least one town's mayor who supported a franchise for Verizon, according to the Wall Street Journal and other publications.

Jonathan Hurd, vice president of Adventis, a Boston telecom consulting firm, says Verizon's investment of billions of dollars in upgrading its network and offering TV is an absolute necessity, both to defend its traditional phone revenue as well as to attract new customers.

"When consumers think about buying these services, a lot of times it's the video and entertainment aspects of it that really sway their decisions," Hurd said.

Research also shows an opportunity, Hurd says, with many consumers expressing unhappiness with traditional video experiences and 85 percent saying there's nothing to watch one or more times a week.

"If Verizon can offer a more differentiated service than the traditional cable or satellite experience, then they have an opportunity to make some significant inroads into the market," Hurd said.

Initially, Verizon will be offering a comparable number of channels for less money. And it will tout its fiber network as a way to offer more - such as a package of international channels - than traditional cable providers can handle.

For example, Verizon's new service will include an "expanded basic" TV package for $39.95 a month that includes about 180 channels. In contrast, Bright House's "standard service" of cable offerings offers 78 channels for $46.49 a month (See chart, right).

At a news conference this morning, Verizon officials will show off the "super head end" control center, known as SHE-1, which looks like something NASA would use, with a wall full of monitors and people checking computer screens at their desks.

Tom Cruden, the senior staff consultant for video operations whose TV experience goes back to the GTE Americast (now Knology) system in Pinellas, even talks like a mission commander, frequently using the words "backup, redundancy and reliability."

If a problem is detected, the system automatically will switch to a backup. That includes anything on the network, from a satellite dish to even SHE-1, where operations would be transferred automatically to a second national control center in Bloomington, Ill.

"All launches are exciting," Cruden said. "But the difference (with FiOS) is the vast change in technology."

-- Information from Times files was used in this report.

-- Dave Gussow can be reached at dgussow@sptimes.com or 727 445-4165.

[Last modified December 6, 2005, 13:17:02]


http://www.sptimes.com/2005/12/06/Business/Verizon_starts_TV_ser.shtml

Verizon Pops Texas Six-Pack

By Linda Haugsted Multichannel.com

Parts of six more Texas communities will see the launch of Verizon Communications Inc.'s Verizon FiOS TV Monday.

The telephone company is expanding into areas of communities closest to its initial market, Keller. Areas that can order service as of Monday are northern Carrollton, eastern Coppell, central Flower Mound, northern Fort Worth, northern Irving and central Lewisville.

Verizon said it will now pass 400,000 north Texas households by the end of 2006, or 33% of its landline customers in the state.

New markets in 2006 will be Allen, Colleyville, Denton, Double Oak, Garland, Grapevine, Hebron, Highland Village, Lucas, Murphy, Parker, Plano, Rowlett, Sachse (where the rollout is governed by a local franchise negotiated before this year's passage of statewide operating authority), Southlake, St. Paul, Westlake (also locally franchised) and Wylie.

The actual launch times will be based on local completion of the telco's fiber-to-the-premises network in each community.

Glad to read about any FIOS expansion and hope Verizon makes it to my Manhattan location soon. Don't recall a definitive answer to what was meant by the suggestion Verizon's SD/HD isn't 'compressed' compared to standard cable or other sources (another thread). Obviously HD is always compressed (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2516871#post2516871) (video payload) from ~1.2 Gbps originally, to ~220 Mbps for HDD5 cassette storage, to ~45 Mbps for programmer satellite delivery to head ends, to ~17 Mbps (or less) to homes. -- John

Just talked to a verizon installation guy who was doing an installation for the fios data in falls church... He said he's pretty sure the fairfax county VA area will get the TV service ~mid Jan. he said. So that means only a month away!! :D Apparently they're testing the service throughly now, so it should be launched in a month. This is definetly great news for the northern va area!

I live in Fairfax County and am seriously considering getting FiOS internet and TV. I have D* now and am very, very dissapointed with the picture quality of their SD and HD. HDNET used to look awesome, but not anymore. The other D* HD channels have been ho-hum (PQ-wise) for quite awhile now. I get my local OTA.

Please, if anybody posting here has Verizon FIOS TV (with HD), please provide feedback on the PQ!!!

The FIOS DVR is HD. They don't even offer an "SD" DVR but the HD one obviously records SD.

Does the Motorola DVR they use have firewire ports? That would be the icing on the cake for me.

I live in Flower Mound. I just found out this service is available to me. I think I am going to switch from Dish. Any one know if the Motorola DVR they use has 15 sec. skip enabled? My wife says she can't go back to watching commercials.

is there a list of cities being considered for the FIOS hdtv service?

i'm in atlanta and would love to jump if it's cheaper than comcast - my bills are out of hand with all the HD channels and 2 dvrs.

Here's what I can tell you. I've been with FIOS TV now for over 3 months (I was part of the beta in Keller, TX). The PQ is excellent on both SD and HD material. I don't believe they have the 15 second skip enabled on the PVR - I've just used the fast forward to get through them but it takes some effort.

The firewire ports are indeed enabled but I have yet to be able to record to my D-VHS using them. My Mitsu. RPTV sees the STB fine but I cannot get the Mitsu. D-VHS to recognize/record from from the STB yet.

John

I'd been on the fence about switching from D* after almost 9 years since I had FIOS Internet installed in January. I wasn't really up to date on what D* was pulling in regards to HD locals until last week when they became available for my area, and that sealed the deal. I knew I'd have to upgrade to MPEG-4 boxes eventually (Which would currently cost me $99 for two, non DVRs), but obviously I was out of the loop because seeing I needed yet another dish that they were charging another $100 for. Well, the final straw was the $200 rebate for new and existing customers... That aren't already HD subscribers. As an HD customer that's put up with a lot from D*, that final brush off for their best customers pushed me over the fence.

Any problems I had paying $12.99 per HD DVR with Verizon faded away. Sure I could call retention and get $200 credit. But considering I had been pondering switching to FIOS in order to get a better service, that's not the issue. Real HD, not HD-Lite, a significant number of channels D* doesn't have, and not having to mess around with buying a new dish, installing it, buying new receivers every couple years and the apparent lack of quality with D*'s new non-Tivo DVRs (Only buffering one tuner a prime example...)

My only worry is how much the local taxes and other local fees will add to the bill. Having to pay for the boxes monthly is going to run the bill up fast, but I'm brushing that away given how much MPEG-4 DVR's would run me with D*. So despite my disgust with D*, I'm concerned how much the final bill will be to get roughly the same package I'm getting with D* Platinum. There's still a chance it's going to be cost prohibitive, but considering how much better and how much more I'll be able to get once FIOS is available in Fairfax, it would have to be significant to stop me from switching.

On the North Shore of Long Island the battle to get Verizon's FIOS TV is heating up. I have had Verizon's FIOS internet service for several months now and it has worked as advertised so I have been looking forward to seeing competition to our local cable TV provider which is Cablevision.

Cablevision's reputation for service and value is not good and my personal experiences with them support this. I recently questioned my village's representative to our North Shore Cable Commission concerning the feeling that they are dragging their feet. He blamed Verizon for not making an official proposal for a franchise but there are rumors afloat that the commission has made unreasonable demands. I don't know what truth is but Cablevision has a reputation for doing everything and anything to stop real competition.

The only solution is for citizens to keep questioning their representatives and force them to act for the public good.

I don't believe they have the 15 second skip enabled on the PVR - I've just used the fast forward to get through them but it takes some effort.


I came across this some time ago. For the 6412, you have to program the 30-second skip feature on the 6412's remote. I've heard this is the DVR that Verizon uses. Don't know if it'll work, but you might try it.

Here are the steps to program the 30 Second Skip, Mute, and Swap on the 6412 remote.

1) Press the "Cable" button at the top of the remote to put it into Cable Box control mode.
2) Press and hold the "Setup" button until the "Cable" button blinks twice.
3) Type in the code 994. The "Cable" button will blink twice
4) Press (do not hold) the "Setup" button
5) Type in the code 00173 (for 30 second Skip), 00141 (for Mute) or 00236 (for Swap).
6) Press whatever button you want to map the skip, mute, or swap function to.

Some 6412s come with a swap button on the remote. Comcast didn't have any when I got my DVR.

OK guys I'm switching. Do these boxes have DVI or HDMI out?
Thanks

I'll try the 30 second skip procedure soon and post back on the results.

Both of the HD STB's (DVR and non-DVR) have DVI out but I haven't verified that they work.

John

I'd been on the fence about switching from D* after almost 9 years since I had FIOS Internet installed in January...

...There's still a chance it's going to be cost prohibitive, but considering how much better and how much more I'll be able to get once FIOS is available in Fairfax, it would have to be significant to stop me from switching.

Rick, I thought you and others might find this article (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6286136.html?&display=Features&referral=SUPP) interesting and something that may aid your decisionmaking. Hopefully the link will remain active for a while. Below is one paragraph that really got my attention:

A demonstration of all three video feeds is a regular stop for Verizon officials giving visitors tours of the Keller operation. It’s easy to see why — the FiOS TV feed is distinctly crisper than the Charter and DirecTV feeds on regular and HDTV channels, including local, basic-cable and premium networks.

OK guys I'm switching. Do these boxes have DVI or HDMI out?
Thanks

I was able to get FIOS TV installed on December 12, and I was the first install for Irving, TX. I am very happy with the picture quality and the amount of channels you get for the money, especially the price of the movie package. Hopefully they can get HBO and Cinemax in there for a great price too.

As far as the the box, I got the HD/DVR, which is the Motorola QIP 6416-1. The output is HDMI ONLY, no DVI connections on the back of this box. At least not the ones Irving are using.

I came across this some time ago. For the 6412, you have to program the 30-second skip feature on the 6412's remote. I've heard this is the DVR that Verizon uses. Don't know if it'll work, but you might try it.

Here are the steps to program the 30 Second Skip, Mute, and Swap on the 6412 remote.

1) Press the "Cable" button at the top of the remote to put it into Cable Box control mode.
2) Press and hold the "Setup" button until the "Cable" button blinks twice.
3) Type in the code 994. The "Cable" button will blink twice
4) Press (do not hold) the "Setup" button
5) Type in the code 00173 (for 30 second Skip), 00141 (for Mute) or 00236 (for Swap).
6) Press whatever button you want to map the skip, mute, or swap function to.

As far as these codes, they do not work for Verizon FIOS, as there is no "SETUP" button on the remote.

Wonder if anyone with FIOS 1080i has accessed a diagnostic mode (if possible) and measured delivered bit rates for various programs? Supposedly that would help answer what Verizon meant by touting 'non-compression' of video compared to cable companies. What are they delivering 1080i at?

Also, how does Verizon's Motorola 6412 compare, maximum resolution-wise, with other 6412s in use? While a high bit rate delivery of programming should maximize resolution (less MPEG-delivered higher resolutions are 'tossed out' to achieve compression), and minimize MPEG breakups, if the 6412 is quite resolution-limited, enhanced PQ 'crispness' wouldn't make it to displays. A while back, I measured ~1335 lines (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175424#post5175424) with Motorola's single-tuner predecessor to the 6412, delivered from RCN Cable and HDNet's test patterns (now Tuesday 6 am ET) to my 9"-CRT RPTV. Suspect it would require live 1080i, or some excellent 1080/60i (30i) recordings, to see maximum HD fidelity. -- John

The output is HDMI ONLY, no DVI connections on the back of this box.

Does this box have other outputs besides hdmi, like component video? Also, is anyone aware if this box uses hdcp for certain channels or simply uses hdmi w/o hdcp? Thanks.

-Mike

Yes, both the DVR and non-DVR HD STB's have component outputs. They also have S-Video and composite.

John

Well, I took the plunge and am going to have the Verizon folks come install the HD-PVR and an SD box on 12/30.

I'm switching from DirecTV, mainly because of I'm tired of the softer picture courtesy of HD-Lite. Hopefully, FIOS will be better.

A couple of questions for FIOS HD owners:

1) What options do you have for formatting 4:3 SD signals? Can you do black and/or grey bars as well as the option to crop top and bottom?

2) Can you upconvert SD signals to 1080i?

3) Does the HD-PVR funtion work good? Easy to use and good PQ?

Anything else I should keep my eyes open for on installation day?

Is it correct that they don't have any sports packages (ie MLB EI, NHL CI) and no INHD?

Is it correct that they don't have any sports packages (ie MLB EI, NHL CI) and no INHD?

Correct.

I dont' subscribe to any sports packages. IN-HD would be nice.. but I don't know of any provider that provides all the HD channels.

Jan 3, 2006 10:34 pm US/Eastern

Howard County [Maryland] Grants Verizon Cable Authority

(WJZ) ELLICOTT CITY The long wait will soon be over for Howard County residents eager for cable TV competition, thanks to a unanimous Howard County Council vote Tuesday night authorizing Verizon to offer its fiber-optic powered FiOS TV in the county.

With its more than 265,000 potential viewers, Howard County is the first Maryland jurisdiction to grant Verizon a cable franchise. Verizon launched FiOS TV Sept. 22, 2005, in Keller, Texas, unveiling a broad collection of all-digital programming with more than 330 total channels and more on the way. The company also offers FiOS TV in Herndon and Fairfax County in Virginia, as well as other locations in Texas and Florida.

Availability plans for FiOS TV in Howard County will be announced soon.

"We applaud the County Council, along with the County Executive and the Office of Cable Administration, for moving Howard County to the forefront of communities nationwide where consumers will be able to choose their cable provider as easily as they choose their phone company," said William R. Roberts, Verizon Maryland president. "Competition drives innovation, value and service quality, and it puts the consumer in control.

"Verizon will compete aggressively for Howard Countians' business with our FiOS services, which are fueled by our lightning-fast fiber-optic network."

Under the 15-year agreement, which becomes effective in early March, Verizon will begin to provide FiOS TV to portions of the county where Verizon's fiber network is currently being built, reaching a large majority of customers within three years. The company plans to extend FiOS TV across the county over the next seven years as it constructs its fiber network in the areas served by the company's central switching offices.

In addition, the agreement contains provisions for the network's future growth; financial support and capacity for educational and government access channels; cable service to government buildings; and other important benefits to the county, including insurance, indemnification and enforcement protections.

FiOS TV is designed to be a formidable competitor to cable and satellite. It is delivered over Verizon's fiber-to-the-premises network, which has industry-leading quality and reliability. Fiber delivers amazingly sharp pictures and sound, and has the capacity to transmit a wide array of high-definition programming that is so clear and intense it seems to leap from the TV screen. Verizon's network design includes backup facilities not common to traditional cable systems, such as duplicate "head ends" where the TV service receives national programming.

In addition to FiOS TV, Verizon's fiber network also allows the company to offer consumers and businesses high-speed FiOS Internet Service at download speeds of up to 30 mbps (megabits per second) and upload speeds up to 5 mbps.* FiOS Internet Service currently is available to many consumers and small businesses in the Columbia and Ellicott City areas of Howard County, as well as parts of Anne Arundel, Montgomery and Prince George's counties.

* NOTE: actual (throughput) speeds will vary.

http://wjz.com/local/local_story_003223555.html

I just had a general question to those that currently have fios tv..

Have you had any general problems w/ the fios tv service in general? I did a search online to see about any experiences or problems and dslreports.com has reviews of people that have had it, and they report having problems w/ verizon's fios tv service. Like the box resetting, and misc. things. I also read that the provided wired d-link router is required to be used for the installation?

I'm concerned since I use a netgear wireless router for the fios internet service, and I could daisy chain the d-link I suppose, but it might cause problems I would think. Is everyone w/ fios tv using the supplied d-link router?

I expect verizon tv service to be available in my area in the next 2-3 weeks, so I'd like to have an idea of what is required before I even think about signing up for service. Thanks.

For those interested, it seems like verizon fios tv is now available in certain parts of ffx county, VA.

Yes, I am using the supplied D-Link router and also a supplied switch since I was out of ports.

I have had no significant issues with the service except I do have the HD-DVR and it for some reason shows 50% full even with nothing showing in the list. I need to call and get them to come out and install a new box but I haven't gotten around to it yet and it fortunately hasn't been an issue. The downside is that I will lose whatever I have saved on the HDD as they will totally replace the box.

Hope this helps.

John

How does the setup work with regards to STBs and TVs? Is a STB required at every TV in the home?

Yes, unless you want to run a modulator or long cables to other rooms. I do know that the HD STB's will output both HD (component) and SD S-Video/composite simultaneously.

That kills it for me :( ...I'm running a multi-tuner HTPC and I'm not stacking a bunch of cable boxes behind my tv. I'll have to look and see if I need more than one SD pvr card....may just have to wait until Vista and cable card support show up....is there cable card support for FIOS? I suppose if there isn't now, there may be eventually...

Naylia,

Every tv set can get the Analog 'Basic' channels through your existing cables. You need a QAM capable STB for local "in the clear" Digital/HD channels, also provided with the 'Basic Package'. All other channels in the larger 'Expanded Basic' Digital package need to go through Verizon's STB's.

YEAH!!!! that's great news. I wasn't sure if Verizon would actually have analog channels

/dance
/dance

Goodbye to Comcast in February hopefully :) ...February is the lastest word I've seen on when TV service will possibly be available in Belmont, MA.