has judder free playback been discussed yet? Will the HD72 take a 48Hz input and display it judder free? This along with the 1080i deinterlacing question are important factors...

I know the infocus has been confirmed to do a multiple of 24Hz.
-jeff

Curious to hear about the "High Altitude" fan setting as well. The manual doesn't specify what is considered high altitude. I'm at 5000', and I won't be able to use the HD72 if I have to run the fan at "full speed."

When is this PJ (H72) due to be shipped?

I just pre-ordered with Projector People. I'm number 4 on their pre-order list and they said It should clear customs and be in their possession by the end of next week. My sales person said to call back Monday afternoon to get an update on a specific time frame.

When is this PJ (H72) due to be shipped?
Visual Apex originally told me early February but when I checked on it yesterday they told me mid-February is more likely. Projector People still say early February is "possible", but it sounds like a long shot. I was hoping to get mine before the Super Bowl but I guess we'll just have to "settle" for my friend's Sanyo PLV-Z4.

You answered it there. At a particular throw, I'd also expect the top or bottom of the image to be fixed regardless of zoom. But it's fixed at a specific number of inches, at least as documented for the H72. As the screen height goes lower or higher this changes the percentage of that number of inches relative to screen height.

Now this is all according to the H' formula in the manual. It could of course be completely wrong as A) it's the worst pj positioning graphic I've ever seen and B) it seems to be wrong in other places.

In comparison the Infocus H76 (same DMD, similar quoted offset percentage) has an offset percentage fixed relative to screen size, like your AE300.


JeffKB,

I haven't the foggiest idea on how 0.86 makes sense. I can only guess that they cut and pasted the line with the 0.8 above and failed to delete the '8' or somehow made a typo. Dividing the numbers out in their table results in 0.6 instead of 0.86.


I cannot speak to the HD72, however I do have the BenQ 8700+ which is also a "fixed offset" projector.... in my setup the top of the image is a fixed position based on the distance from the projector to the screen... if you adjust the zoom the sides and bottom of the image are affected, but not the distance from the top of the image to the ceiling.

Notice that the Optoma calcs are for a 1280X768 display. Majority of us will only be using 1280X720...we will have to live with small black bars (24 pixels above and below) because the 4:3 material will display at 1024X768. This makes for imaginative screen sizing (have to size screen for 4:3 content height). This is what I was going to do anyway...because of Xbox games, just wanted others to be aware of it.

Notice that the Optoma calcs are for a 1280X768 display. Majority of us will only be using 1280X720...we will have to live with small black bars (24 pixels above and below) because the 4:3 material will display at 1024X768. This makes for imaginative screen sizing (have to size screen for 4:3 content height). This is what I was going to do anyway...because of Xbox games, just wanted others to be aware of it.


Braindew,

It's your understanding, then, that 1.77:1 material will display at a resolution of 720 X 1280, while 1.33:1 material will utilize the extra 48 vertical pixels for a res of 768 X 1024 (as opposed to 720 X 958).

Have we been able to confirm with an official Optoma source that the HD 72 is definitely configured to operate this way? I hope this is the case, because utilizing such a pixel array makes considerable sense to me. I think it would put this particular DMD resolution (768X1280) to very good use. Besides, it has always seemed to me that the narrower aspect ratios could use a little extra size, especially in comparison to the cinematic impact of widescreen 'Scope material.

The diagrams on page 27 of the user manual would seem to suggest that the 4:3 image will fit inside of the 16:9 frame.

I am about to purchase HD72 and this will be my first projector.

I am very confused about what screen to buy -- I know that nobody had a chance to review this PJ or play with different screen options, but there should be some general thoughts on what screen will match HD72.

I will have dedicated HT with well controlled ambient light, PJ will be mounted on the ceiling, 16:9 screen -- size 106-120 inches, sitting distance about 15 feet. Main source of programming DVD, HD broadcast.

Also I am very confused about masking options -- since lots of movies are 1:2.35, I will have those black bars on the top and bottom of the image. Do I need to mask them somehow or do I simply stretch the image to fill the screen vertically ?
But this way the image will overflow to the sides. How do you deal with that ?

Thanks, Davie.

Eclipse98,

Congrats Im sure you will enjoy the projector. The best thing to do is to live with black bars with any material that is not 16x9. There are some screens that mask but imho its not worth it. Luckily you will have nice deep blacks and not notice the bars very much. You could opt for a grey screen and an ND filter to further darken them.

Congrats Im sure you will enjoy the projector. The best thing to do is to live with black bars with any material that is not 16x9. There are some screens that mask but imho its not worth it. Luckily you will have nice deep blacks and not notice the bars very much. You could opt for a grey screen and an ND filter to further darken them.

HT cOz, you mentioned grey screen -- is it better for displaying those black bars compared to white screen ? I will have very little to none ambient light and was under impression that grey screens are mostly for enhancing black level in room with ambient light. Would it be overkill for almost dark room ?

Thanks, Davie.

For me it will likely mean that I get a 24 pixel "lens shift" since I'm going to just do 720. My cable box will pillarbox all 4:3 material anyway as it always outputs 720p.

My LD player (if it even still works) isn't even plugged in anymore. My DVD player upconverts. I'm not certain I still have a 4:3 source...oh wait...the camcorder. Eh. I only "watch" my camcorder on my mac to make DVDs.

Nigel

Braindew,

It's your understanding, then, that 1.77:1 material will display at a resolution of 720 X 1280, while 1.33:1 material will utilize the extra 48 vertical pixels for a res of 768 X 1024 (as opposed to 720 X 958).

Have we been able to confirm with an official Optoma source that the HD 72 is definitely configured to operate this way? I hope this is the case, because utilizing such a pixel array makes considerable sense to me. I think it would put this particular DMD resolution (768X1280) to very good use. Besides, it has always seemed to me that the narrower aspect ratios could use a little extra size, especially in comparison to the cinematic impact of widescreen 'Scope material.

I don't think we can go by page 27...I think it is one of those fudged Marketing pics to get the point across. The calculations are quite clear on page 16 that the 4:3 material is 768X1024. I think this is great news...it buys you approximately 4 more diagonal inches for 4:3 image if sizing for a 100 inch 16:9 720p image. You get 82" if assume 4:3 inside 720 pixels...86" if 4:3 inside 768 pixels.

Then again...they also calculate the 16:9 image with 768...so all bets are off until we play with it when it comes in.

Eclipse, you don't mention your budget or DIY inclination. A motorized masking solution from a screen company is general thousands of dollars. For my 16:9->2.35:1 masking I just have some dark fabric that I pull down for the top. For the bottom I just retract my screen to bottom of the 2.35:1 image to expose the dark fabric behind the screen. The stops on my screen happen to match exactly to what I need. If yours doesn't then you can attach a chain or rope to hold it at the right level. I don't care about 4:3, but if you do you could setup some curtains on either side to mask.

If your room is painted completely black then you probably don't need a gray screen. However if you have a light painted room you'd be surprised at how the light reflected from the screen lights up the entire room. This light reflected back onto the screen will decrease the contrast level. My no ambient light image improved a bit in my white room when I added a GrayWolf, probably some due to it being gray and some due to it being retroreflective (rejecting off-axis light). This is not to say that white or gray is a brain dead decision - the only way to really tell is to watch each for a while in your room and see which you prefer. The screen forum has lots more info. Of course I bet you'll get a fantastic image from the HD72 with either.

Eclipse, you don't mention your budget or DIY inclination. A motorized masking solution from a screen company is general thousands of dollars. For my 16:9->2.35:1 masking I just have some dark fabric that I pull down for the top. For the bottom I just retract my screen to bottom of the 2.35:1 image to expose the dark fabric behind the screen. The stops on my screen happen to match exactly to what I need. If yours doesn't then you can attach a chain or rope to hold it at the right level. I don't care about 4:3, but if you do you could setup some curtains on either side to mask.
Or if your projector has a digital image shift function, where you can move the image to the top or bottom of the screen, then you have one other option. When you watch 2.35:1 aspect ratio movies, you can "shift" the 2.35:1 image to the bottom of the screen so the bottom of the image is right up against the bottom of your screen, and then pull dark fabric down to conceal the area between the top of the picture and the top of your screen. This way you can use a fixed screen or a retractable screen and still accomplish the same thing. My dad has an Optoma H57 and if I remember right it can digitally shift the image to the top or bottom of the screen, so I'd assume the HD72 will be able to as well. Just so you don't get confused, this isn't the same as lens shift, which actually physically moves the lens. The HD72 will not have lens shift.

The calculations are quite clear on page 16 that the 4:3 material is 768X1024. I think this is great news...it buys you approximately 4 more diagonal inches for 4:3 image if sizing for a 100 inch 16:9 720p image. You get 82" if assume 4:3 inside 720 pixels...86" if 4:3 inside 768 pixels.

Then again...they also calculate the 16:9 image with 768...so all bets are off until we play with it when it comes in.


Yeah, we'll have to wait and see how this actually works. Anyway, I downloaded the HD72 User Guide from the Optoma site and have been looking through it. From what I have gathered to this point, it appears that the choice between 720 X 1280 and 768 X 1268 will be user selectable via the menu (see pages 21 & 30 under "Display Type"). If that is the case, I guess the 48 extra pixels will be electronically darkened in the 720 display mode. It's nice when those kinds of options are selectable :)---I hope things turn out that way.

Eclipse, you don't mention your budget or DIY inclination. A motorized masking solution from a screen company is general thousands of dollars. For my 16:9->2.35:1 masking I just have some dark fabric that I pull down for the top. For the bottom I just retract my screen to bottom of the 2.35:1 image to expose the dark fabric behind the screen. The stops on my screen happen to match exactly to what I need. If yours doesn't then you can attach a chain or rope to hold it at the right level. I don't care about 4:3, but if you do you could setup some curtains on either side to mask.

If your room is painted completely black then you probably don't need a gray screen. However if you have a light painted room you'd be surprised at how the light reflected from the screen lights up the entire room. This light reflected back onto the screen will decrease the contrast level. My no ambient light image improved a bit in my white room when I added a GrayWolf, probably some due to it being gray and some due to it being retroreflective (rejecting off-axis light). This is not to say that white or gray is a brain dead decision - the only way to really tell is to watch each for a while in your room and see which you prefer. The screen forum has lots more info. Of course I bet you'll get a fantastic image from the HD72 with either.

FlyingGimp, Myapplebuddy, thanks for your time replying to my post.

My budget (as you might have guessed from me buying 2K projector) is not sky high. Having said that, I have a firm belief that I must buy as much of the screen as I can afford -- projectors will come and go, but your screen is going to be with you for a very long time. I don't want motorized or retractable screens -- since I have dedicated HT I am more inclined to buy pemanent fixed screen. I am thinking about spending around 1K or less for the 106-120" screen and I think I have quite a wide choice of screens at this price range and that brings a lot of confusion being a newbie in screens and PJs:

-- grey or white ?
-- what gain ?
-- what brand ?

I've read quite a few good comments about Graywolf, but on the other hand I've read people complaining about Graywolf losing it's brightness when PJ is ceiling mounted (which is my case). There are so many good screens out there (DaLite, Firehawk, etc) and I am trying to figure out if choosing the screen is specific to your viewing conditions or does PJ bring it's own unique characteristics to the mix. That's why I am posting to Optoma HD72 thread opposite to just screens thread, since there are so many Optoma owners here that sure know specifics of their PJs.

Myapplebuddy, thanks for suggestion on digital image shift, I am almost sure that HD72 does have it, at least that is what they describe as 'V Image shift' on page 28 of their user manual. Can somebody confirm that this is indeed digital shift that Myapplebuddy is talking about.

Anyway, I'll spend more time on screens forum, however if anybody has any good info on what screen matches Optoma PJs it will be highly appreciated if you can post it here.

Thanks in advance, Davie.

I'll be using my HD72 with a Carada Criterion 96" screen with their Brilliant White material. I think it would be in your price range, even at the size you want to get. I read a comparison a while ago that said the Carada Brilliant White material is similar to the Stewart Studiotek 130 material. My dad uses a Carada Brilliant White screen with his Optoma H57 and it looks amazing. Grey screens are mostly good for improving blacks and for rejecting ambient light. The HD72 should have great blacks so unless you're using it with lots of ambient light, you should be fine with a white screen. The Carada screens are an incredible value for what you get.

Eclipse98,

I am also using Carada's Brilliant White Criterion screen. but smaller in size than myapplebuddy's screen.
The material is just a thin milky white vinyl (or something like that).
I thought the screen "material" was pretty "low tech" when I bought it, but it does provide a very uniform and smooth picture.
The frame is very well made and very sturdy.

You can order the screen with a gray material, but if you don't like it ,you will end up paying for the material twice (once for gray and once for white).
Gray material will provide better "blacks," but it will make the whites and bright colors somewhat muted.

I would not recommend spending a lot of money on a white or gray screen, because you may decide to buy black screen when it becomes more affordable.

Mike

I am a bit confused on the offset. I want to mount the projector 13' 6" from a 118" screen. Anyone know how much above the top of the screen the projector would have to be?

I am a bit confused on the offset. I want to mount the projector 13' 6" from a 118" screen. Anyone know how much above the top of the screen the projector would have to be?

Tned,

Per user manual -- 162" * tan(6.52) = 18.51".

Top of your screen is going to be 18.51 below the center of the lens.
Screen size makes no difference.

Davie.

Please explain your calculation.

I really liked this PJ, but the offset sounds so high I don't know how many of us will be able to use it. Why can't they just be more reasonable with the offset. I haven't seen one person yet that was glad for a huge offset, so why do they do it?

I really liked this PJ, but the offset sounds so high I don't know how many of us will be able to use it. Why can't they just be more reasonable with the offset. I haven't seen one person yet that was glad for a huge offset, so why do they do it?

I'm glad.

Fleaman

Please explain your calculation.

Page 16 of the user manual says:

H' (offset) = L (distance from PJ to screen) * tan (6.52)

L: 13"6' = 162 inches
tan(6.52) = 0.1142

H' = 162" * 0.1142 = 18.51"

As I said, screen size makes no difference in offset.

Thanks, Davie.

I really liked this PJ, but the offset sounds so high I don't know how many of us will be able to use it. Why can't they just be more reasonable with the offset. I haven't seen one person yet that was glad for a huge offset, so why do they do it?

I agree, smaller offset would be better -- even with 8.5 feet ceiling in my basement I can't project to bigger than 110 inch screen - anything bigger will force me move screen too low -- good thing is that my viewing distance is 14 feet so I guess 110 inch will work fine.

I really liked this PJ, but the offset sounds so high I don't know how many of us will be able to use it. Why can't they just be more reasonable with the offset. I haven't seen one person yet that was glad for a huge offset, so why do they do it?

It seems the HD72 has a similar offset as the H30 (depending on firmware) and the H31, 4805....

And I believe you had at least 2 of these projectors?

Fleaman

I really liked this PJ, but the offset sounds so high I don't know how many of us will be able to use it. Why can't they just be more reasonable with the offset. I haven't seen one person yet that was glad for a huge offset, so why do they do it?
I'm glad too - I have a high vaulted ceiling in my living room.

Tned,

Per user manual -- 162" * tan(6.52) = 18.51".

Top of your screen is going to be 18.51 below the center of the lens.
Screen size makes no difference.

Davie.

Ok, thanks. That's what I was afraid, I can't handle that much offset.

Ugh, my screen top is like 10 inches from the ceiling at most, I really wanted one of these.

Page 16 of the user manual says:

H' (offset) = L (distance from PJ to screen) * tan (6.52)

L: 13"6' = 162 inches
tan(6.52) = 0.1142

H' = 162" * 0.1142 = 18.51"

As I said, screen size makes no difference in offset.

Thanks, Davie.

Davie,

But isn't "L" directly related to screen size? I know that zoom will give you some play with this, but at the same zoom, that larger the screen size, the further back the projector must be set. This gives a larger "L" value and a larger offset. I am not a math major, so am I missing something?

As I said, screen size makes no difference in offset.



It does, it just isn't used in this calculation. Optoma must have put the math geeks in charge of coming up with an offset formula. Using screen size would have been too easy, so why not put that math major to good use and throw in a tangent. Where else do you get to use one? ;)

The size of the screen determines throw distance, and vice versa. Neither measurement is mutually exclusive. Therefore, the product of the equation has as much to do with screen size as it does throw distance. You can't get a 80" diagonal image at a 13.5' throw, just like you can't get a 118" image from a 10' throw.

The resultant offset is still ~32%.

It seems the HD72 has a similar offset as the H30 (depending on firmware) and the H31, 4805....

And I believe you had at least 2 of these projectors?

Although the question was not directed to me, just to chime in:

A 27% or 32% offset makes sense on low resolution PJs like those, since most will be using a smaller screen due to viewing angle issues (i.e. needing to maintain about 2x width). For smaller screens (say 92"), those offsets make sense and work out well for most people. But the problem is that it's quite common to want to increase your screen size when you trade up in resolution. That's why there's more complaints about the offset with this PJ vs the H30 or 4805. What was the perfect offset at 92" is now too steep when you want to trade up to 106" or 110".

I'm planning on getting the IF IN76 for my upgrade, but the H72 is a legitimate backup plan for me in case the IN76 stays $1K higher or has initial issues. The offset is the major stumbling block. Oh well, I guess I should remember that when I bought my 4805 a scant 18 months ago, the cheapest 720p DLP was streeting for over 4 grand. If this PJ was available back than for $500 more than what I paid for my 4805, I could have cared less about the offset - I would have MADE it work, one way or the other! :)

But isn't "L" directly related to screen size? I know that zoom will give you some play with this, but at the same zoom, that larger the screen size, the further back the projector must be set. This gives a larger "L" value and a larger offset. I am not a math major, so am I missing something?


SCM, It would make a difference if the question was asked differently, e.g. "I have 118 " screen, with 1.0 zoom how much below the center of the lens will I need to mount the screen ?"

In this case we still would calculate L based on zoom and screen size and then calculate offset based on L. Look at it this way -- at particular L (162 for example), the top of the screen is always going to be 18.5" below the center of the lens (at least that what their manual says). I think what causes confusion is percent offset relative to screen height.

If you look at the same calc with different zoom, at 162 inches you can throw either 99" or 119" diagonal image (48" & 58" high respectively). Now if you calculate percentage offset, it will be:

18.51 / 48 = 38.5%
18.51 / 58 = 31.9%

Having said that, offset in inches is going to be the same (18.51) from 162" throw distance no matter if you project to 99" or 119" screen. The bottom of the image will simply move 10" lower for bigger screen, but the top will be the same.

HTH, Davie.

It does, it just isn't used in this calculation. Optoma must have put the math geeks in charge of coming up with an offset formula. Using screen size would have been too easy, so why not put that math major to good use and throw in a tangent. Where else do you get to use one? ;)

The size of the screen determines throw distance, and vice versa. Neither measurement is mutually exclusive. Therefore, the product of the equation has as much to do with screen size as it does throw distance. You can't get a 80" diagonal image at a 13.5' throw, just like you can't get a 118" image from a 10' throw.

The resultant offset is still ~32%.

Bubbawilly, I agree that screen size will make a difference in the calculation if the throw distance is not set. This way you will still need to calculate L and based on that calculate H'.

However, the question in the post specifically mentioned fixed throw distance of 13"6' and at this throw distance offset is always going to be 18.51" no matter how big the image is going to be projected (99" or 119").

Davie.

I'll be using my HD72 with a Carada Criterion 96" screen with their Brilliant White material. I think it would be in your price range, even at the size you want to get. I read a comparison a while ago that said the Carada Brilliant White material is similar to the Stewart Studiotek 130 material. My dad uses a Carada Brilliant White screen with his Optoma H57 and it looks amazing. Grey screens are mostly good for improving blacks and for rejecting ambient light. The HD72 should have great blacks so unless you're using it with lots of ambient light, you should be fine with a white screen. The Carada screens are an incredible value for what you get.

Myapplebuddy, thanks for your screen suggestion -- I've read some reviews on Carada and they all are very positive. What I also like about them is the 30 day money back guarantee, so I've got nothing to lose except S&H charges. All other screen manufacturers I've been looking at (or their resellers) do not give you this option.

Thanks, Davie.

Eclipse98,

I am also using Carada's Brilliant White Criterion screen. but smaller in size than myapplebuddy's screen.
The material is just a thin milky white vinyl (or something like that).
I thought the screen "material" was pretty "low tech" when I bought it, but it does provide a very uniform and smooth picture.
The frame is very well made and very sturdy.

You can order the screen with a gray material, but if you don't like it ,you will end up paying for the material twice (once for gray and once for white).
Gray material will provide better "blacks," but it will make the whites and bright colors somewhat muted.

I would not recommend spending a lot of money on a white or gray screen, because you may decide to buy black screen when it becomes more affordable.

Mike


MikeSer, I don't think I will end up paying for material twice since Carada give you 30 day money back guarantee, so I can just swap one for another if I don't like it.

Also, their prices seem very reasonable compared to other screen manufactures and I don't feel like spending a lot of money for it -- seems to be a good value product.

Thanks, Davie.

Copied from post #164 in this thread.I hate to belabor this, but since it continues to come up on every page ...

The offset is a red herring for people using fixed screens. As others have said, in this and other threads, all you need do is tilt the projector up a bit, and shim out the top of the screen a bit.

Think of the entire projector and screen as rigidly linked - imagine tie-rods going from top and bottom of screen to top and bottom of projector. Now, just rotate the projector up until the top of the screen is where you want it. With a 15 or 20 foot radius, moving the screen up a foot or two is only a few degrees of rotation, and the top of the screen only comes out a couple inches from the wall.

Of course, drop down screens hang plumb, so this is still a problem for them (unless they could fashion a track that would pull the screen bottom toward the wall a couple inches)

For those with OFFSET concerns

There are 3 projectors using the new TI chip (Mits HD3000, Optoma HD72 and the InFocus IN76) and the sleeper in this is the InFocus IN76 as Jeff mentioned.

The offset is about 15.6% vs 32% or so for the HD72.

The offset and the good support and reputation of IF may be worth a few 100's more $$ than the Optoma. My guess is that the price difference will be way less than some have guessed.

Copied from post #164 in this thread.


I'm sure that everyone has read this, yet there is still great concern over the fairly significant offset of the HD72. Obviously, most folks don't consider permanently tilting their screen an acceptable option.

For those with OFFSET concerns

There are 3 projectors using the new TI chip (Mits HD3000, Optoma HD72 and the InFocus IN76) and the sleeper in this is the InFocus IN76 as Jeff mentioned.

The offset is about 15.6% vs 32% or so for the HD72.

The offset and the good support and reputation of IF may be worth a few 100's more $$ than the Optoma. My guess is that the price difference will be way less than some have guessed.

The IN76 will have an MSRP of $2999, just like the Optoma. It will depend on the sales channel as to what the street price is. Like you mentioned, the 16% offset, and the more flexible zoom range of the 76 will make it worth the extra month's wait for many.

Regarding tilting your screen to account for the offset, that will work, but it is not the universal solution for all nor does it mean that offset is a red herring. In some cases the "slight tilt" won't be that slight at all. Based on the degree of tilt you need, you may or may not find that solution appealing.

The InFocus SP5700 has about the same offset as the H72, and the Excel screen calculator for the SP5700 will calculate the screen tilt needed to correct for a projector tilt (no doubt InFocus received complaints about the 32% offset just like Optoma currently is, hence the need to include the screen tilt calculator. Note that the SP5700's current version on the IF website does not contain this, but I have an older version that does. I'll try to find that version somewhere online and link to it later). Tilt varies by throw distance, and since the H72's farthest throw is close to the SP5700's shortest throw, you should use the SP5700 short throw figures when determining tilt.

EDIT- here's the SP5700 screen calculator:
http://www.infocus.com/service/sp5700/downloads/ScreenPlay%205700%20calculator%20-%20english.xls

Here's an example that I don't think is going to be that atypical:

Your HT is in a basement with a ceiling height of 7'5". You want a 110" screen and you plan on mounting the H72 at the far end of its throw range. That means the offset is 38% (that assumes that the manual is correct and offset is dependant on throw distance and varies from 32% to 38% of screen height).

If you run the math, that puts the bottom of your screen at:

89" ceiling height, minus 5" mount drop, minus 20.5" offset drop, minus 54" screen height, equals 9.5 (call it 10") above your floor.

If you want to achieve the "eyes 33% up from the bottom of your screen" rule, you need to get the bottom of your screen up to 24" off the floor (42" average eye height - 18" = 24"). You need to raise your image up 14".

If you plug the numbers into the SP5700 calculator and use the short throw figures, you'll see that you need to tilt the projector up around 4.5 degrees and tilt the top of your screen out from the wall by between 4 and 5 inches.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't find that very appealing at all. With that degree of tilt I'd be willing to bet that you could tell that your screen was tilted while watching a movie, and I would find that distracting.

I will say this however - although IMO the offset is less than ideal, I think most people who say they can't consider the H72 because of it really COULD get it to work if they are willing to accept some compromises. You could tilt the screen, you could tilt the projector and then mask off the trapezoidal part of the image left and right (focus uniformity may suffer however), or you could simply accept the fact that the image is lower on the wall then where you'd like it. Of course, not everyone will find those compromises acceptable, and if that's the case, the offset would eliminate this projector from consideration for some.

I will now officially stop harping on the offset and move on. :)

There are 3 projectors using the new TI chip (Mits HD3000, Optoma HD72 and the InFocus IN76) and the sleeper in this is the InFocus IN76 as Jeff mentioned.


I mostly wrote off the IN76 when I read it does not have the new DDP3020 DMD controller. The DDP3020 is the most likely reason the HC3000 shows good improvement on temporal dithering artifacts. See the cinehome review (http://www.cine4home.com/tests/projektoren/MitsuHC3000/Final/HC3000Test.htm) , section 3.8.

Temporal dithering artifacts drive me nuts - I see them constantly in gaming when I spin around. So for me I'll try whatever I can to fit an HC3000 or HD72 into my room over the IN76. Of course I see temporal dithering infrequently in movies or TV, so for non-gamers it's probably not as big an issue. And there's the side note that, of the new breed of DLPs, if the IN76 offset is the only one that will fit in your room, it would certainly be at the top on my list. At least until we get more info on the Sharp XV-Z3000.

One other point about the IN76. The extra rows of pixels are permanently masked off. So if you like the idea of watching 4:3 material at 1024x768, it won't work as well for you. Of course, if you only want to watch 16:9 or 2.35:1 content, it's a non-issue, and may even be an advantage, since you won't have to worry as much (probably) about masking.

The IN76 will have an MSRP of $2999, just like the Optoma. It will depend on the sales channel as to what the street price is. Like you mentioned, the 16% offset, and the more flexible zoom range of the 76 will make it worth the extra month's wait for many.

I think HD72 has MSRP $3999 (at least projector central says so). It will be very interesting to so the street price for IN76 with much lower MSRP and not as good warranty (just 1 year) -- I think they should be very close to HD72 street price to be able to compete. I already see some of LCD PJs "lowering" their prices to stay competitive -- Panasonic just increased their rebate to $400 for AE900 :)

For those with OFFSET concerns

There are 3 projectors using the new TI chip (Mits HD3000, Optoma HD72 and the InFocus IN76) and the sleeper in this is the InFocus IN76 as Jeff mentioned.

The offset is about 15.6% vs 32% or so for the HD72.

The offset and the good support and reputation of IF may be worth a few 100's more $$ than the Optoma. My guess is that the price difference will be way less than some have guessed.

For whatever it's worth there is another interesting factor influencing offset -- aspect ratio. Since most movies are presented in 1:1.85 and 1:2.35 aspect ratio, for those of us who plan on watching mostly movies that gives some extra inches to play with.

If you take 106" diagonal screen in 16:9 (1:1.78 aspect) screen dimensions will be 92" x 52".

When you watch 1.85 / 2.35 content image height will decrease to 49.73" and 39.14" respectively -- that is extra 2" and whopping 12" to play with. If you digitally shift image to the top of the screen and mask the bottom black bar that can make heck of a difference.

Of course it will be useless for 16:9 or 3:4 aspect, but then again, depending on how much of this material you're going to watch may make you re-think offset issue.

Davie.

I am really struggling between the H72 and the Panny 900u. Both are in my price range (although the rebates from Panasonic are enticing). My concern with Optoma of course is the offset. It may not be THAT bad in my case though. My ceiling is 99" high and my desired screen will be 102" X 57". Based on my math here the offset will be about 18.5" (using 32% of the screen height). Add the 5" for lense from ceiling and the the picture will be 23.5" from the ceiling and 18.5" off the ground (23.5+57=80.5 99-80.5=18.5") Using the desired screen placement of 1/3 below eye level that would place the desired screen height at 22" (assuming 39" eye level) Soooo I am only about 4" off. If I were to tilt the PJ to get the desired height up to 22 or 23" (4 or 5" tilt) how much would this effect the image and how far should the screen be tilted out to compensate for it?? I could not make sence out of the excel calculator. Would it be noticeable??

If you want to achieve the "eyes 33% up from the bottom of your screen" rule...Why would I feel obligated to follow some obscure rule???
My screen is low off the floor (less than 16"), because that's the way I like it.
It is low, because in my particular predicament I cannot use a recliner.
With a recliner seating, it would make sense to elevate the screen to a height that "feels right."

OTOH, I agree that 10" is too low. Let's not forget that we are discussing a "budget" PJ.
It's VO value is probably strongly influenced by a desktop configuration, as opposed to a ceiling-mount configuration.

Mike

Why would I feel obligated to follow some obscure rule???

I agree with Mike,

What's important is how you feel about your screen location vs. some rule that nobody knows where it came from. I think it's not a rule, rather some general guidelines to assist you with your screen placement, but the final judge is you.

Even following this "rule" does it make so much difference if it's off by 4 inches ? 1-2 feet maybe, but not 4 inches. Also, remember last time you went to the movies -- did you follow this 33% rule or was it way off -- I bet you still enjoyed the movie. :)

Davie.

Let's not forget that we are discussing a "budget" PJ.
It's VO value is probably strongly influenced by a desktop configuration, as opposed to a ceiling-mount configuration.The price is no excuse for bungling the offset. That is just a lame excuse. Anyone at Optoma expecting this to be used on a tabletop in a conference room is pretty farkin stupid.

Why would I feel obligated to follow some obscure rule???

You're not - nobody said you were. My example was just an illustration of what you would have to do if you wanted to achieve the 33% rule or guideline, whatever we want to call it.

Like many other things in HT, this comes down to personal preference. And of course there's a range involved - a few inches will not make a difference. Personally I'm shooting for anywhere between 25% and 40%. That's not cast in stone, but I certainly don't want to be looking down at most of the image, which could easily happen in some setups with this offset.

Now cut it out! You guys are making me talk about offset again when I promised not to! :D

One of the reasons I was interested in tilting the projector to raise the image up about 4" was also for looks. The screen just looks too low at 18" up (which is only 12" up from the stage". Also I don't want to have a 13" riser. I was hoping to keep it around 10" Does anyone know how much a mere 4" would distort the picture? Can it be taken care of by shimming the screen out no more than 1 -1.5 " up top and than maybe absorbing the rest in the border?? If that is all that I will need to do than I can probably live with that.

BTW...I called Projector People and they are expecting delivery from Optoma next week. I can't wait to hear a review with some screen shots.

The price is no excuse for bungling the offset. That is just a lame excuse. .

"Bungling" the offset is your opinion.

To me, it's not a bungle at all.

That's a personal preference. You have yours, I have mine.

It aint a bungle.

Not putting 'Zoom' on it would be a bungle.

You want a PJ's offset to be optimized for low basement ceilings, I want my PJ offset to be optimized for living room ceilings.

There aren't many usable basements out here in the West...

Fleaman

I'm glad.

Fleaman

Me, too. It's going to work perfectly in my media room. :D

I am really struggling between the H72 and the Panny 900u. Both are in my price range (although the rebates from Panasonic are enticing). My concern with Optoma of course is the offset. It may not be THAT bad in my case though. My ceiling is 99" high and my desired screen will be 102" X 57". Based on my math here the offset will be about 18.5" (using 32% of the screen height). Add the 5" for lense from ceiling and the the picture will be 23.5" from the ceiling and 18.5" off the ground (23.5+57=80.5 99-80.5=18.5") Using the desired screen placement of 1/3 below eye level that would place the desired screen height at 22" (assuming 39" eye level) Soooo I am only about 4" off. If I were to tilt the PJ to get the desired height up to 22 or 23" (4 or 5" tilt) how much would this effect the image and how far should the screen be tilted out to compensate for it?? I could not make sence out of the excel calculator. Would it be noticeable?? I didn't bother looking up all the details, but if your throw is around 15 feet, you are rotating the PJ about 1.25 degrees. If your screen height is 57 inches, this would require a little over an inch of shim at the top.

And I agree with Davie and Jeff that a few inches (wrt eye height) makes no appreciable diffference. I'd be more concerned with the audio side wrt center placement. It is preferable to have it as far from floor or ceiling as possible to minimize early reflections and smearing of the (most important) sound source.

"Bungling" the offset is your opinion.

To me, it's not a bungle at all.

You want a PJ's offset to be optimized for low basement ceilings, I want my PJ offset to be optimized for living room ceilings.
Fleaman

Exactly! There are many people that think the offset is just fine for them (I being one of them) yet you don't here from them because they have no reason to complain. To say they "bungled" it because they didn't optimize it for a basement is laughable. The projector mounted in a STANDARD 8' high room can be used with up to a 110" screen with a perfect setup (i.e. no tilting etc.); I hardly call that a "bungle". It's not like the more people CONTINOUSLY complain about the offset, the more Optoma will think about changing it. It's already in production and due out in a month! Let's face it whether you like the offset or not, by now we have to deal it with it. If it's not good for you, move on to the next projector so that people who ARE interested in this one can gain some valuable information from this thread...

If it's not good for you, move on to the next projector so that people who ARE interested in this one can gain some valuable information from this thread...

I have gained valuable information from this thread. I was/am seriously looking at this projector. However, the offset discussion showed me that the projector most likely is a problem in my set-up. I have 8' ceilings, but my current mounting position is 14' from the screen and I want to project on a 96"x54" (110" diag.) screen. At 14', the top of the screen would be placed at 24" from the ceiling and only 18" from the floor. I can move the projector mount forward to raise the top of the image, but that is going to involve patching sheet rock and repainting the ceiling. That may be the best thing to do, but this thread helped me recognize the problem. Maybe this information doesn't address your situation, but it may have saved me from making a $2,000 mistake. Still, I won't know for certain until someone has the projector in hand and has real world experience with it. Then, I will need to hear about their experience with this issue.

Exactly! There are many people that think the offset is just fine for them (I being one of them) yet you don't here from them because they have no reason to complain. To say they "bungled" it because they didn't optimize it for a basement is laughable. The projector mounted in a STANDARD 8' high room can be used with up to a 110" screen with a perfect setup (i.e. no tilting etc.); I hardly call that a "bungle". It's not like the more people CONTINOUSLY complain about the offset, the more Optoma will think about changing it. It's already in production and due out in a month! Let's face it whether you like the offset or not, by now we have to deal it with it. If it's not good for you, move on to the next projector so that people who ARE interested in this one can gain some valuable information from this thread...
Sorry, but some people gain "valuable information" by reading things other than the corporate line and spin from Optoma fans (who haven't even SEEN the projector in action mind you!).

Some people like the screen HIGH on the wall (for use with recliners and 2nd/3rd row seating) even if they have 8+ foot ceilings and no obstructions. Also it's alot more effective to LOWER a PJ via a, extension downtube mount than to keystone and cripple the picture.

If it's the same (offset) as the H31 then there are a bunch of us who have a clear upgrade path :)

Unbolt H31 & sell it - Bolt up H72 :)

My setup is almost exactly the same as SCM's. My ceiling's a little taller and my screen's a little smaller. If I did the offset calculations correctly, I can get the image to within a couple of inches of where I want it. Am I right in thinking that the only downside of tilting the projector to compensate for the offset is some keystoning?

Thanks,
Mike

Am I right in thinking that the only downside of tilting the projector to compensate for the offset is some keystoning?
You'll have to keystone the image to get it be "square" again, yes. Or you can angle the screen a bit to compensate for the tilt of the projector. I've never done this so I don't know how the specifics on how to do it right. Maybe an appropriate debate would be just HOW BAD keystoning is. My dad has an incredibly low ceiling for his H57 and the offset forced him to tilt it up a little bit. We compensated with keystoning and the image still looks wonderful. I wonder if some projectors do a better job of keystoning than others. Any thoughts on this? Some people have made it sound like it totally distorts and ruins the image, but like I said the slightly keystoned image of my dad's H57 looks wonderful. I have never seen 2 projectors side by side, one with keystoning and one without, and in that case I maybe would notice a difference, but to me there are no "obvious" distortions on the H57 with a little keystoning. I would assume the HD72 would be similar. I'm not pretending to have the experience or knowledge of many on this board, so any thoughts on keystoning would be helpful.

Unbolt H31 & sell it - Bolt up H72 :)

More like: "Unbolt H31 & sell it - Bolt up H72 and pray wife doesn't notice" :D

Sorry, but some people gain "valuable information" by reading things other than the corporate line and spin from Optoma fans (who haven't even SEEN the projector in action mind you!).

Some people like the screen HIGH on the wall (for use with recliners and 2nd/3rd row seating) even if they have 8+ foot ceilings and no obstructions. Also it's alot more effective to LOWER a PJ via a, extension downtube mount than to keystone and cripple the picture.

"Corporate line and spin"??

All you and I (and others) were addressing was the offset issue, you don't have to "See" the PJ to comment on the Offset! I was merely stating that it's a preference for some and not others. For you obviously it's not your preference. You should take Mikenificent1's advice and move onto another PJ. I really don't understand? If the HD72's offset won't work for you, and we all know Optoma isn't gonna change it, then in effect, it's really you that is putting spin on the situation?

You even say above that you have a preference for a certain offset for your particular room. Your preference would be perfect for your room and not mine. In my room your perfect offset PJ would hang down in the middle of my room like an ugly piñata.

Zero offset HT PJ's is a new phenomena over the course of the last 1-2 years. Before that most HT PJ's had an offset similar to the HD72 and many, like myself, have PJ's mounted and set-up to work within this most common range. I don't like zero offset PJ's....ANY of them, regardless of Brand.

That is not corporate spin or me being an Optoma Fan.

And I agree with others, lets put this offset issue to bed. It is what it is. It works for you or not. I’d rather discus something like whether the HD72 will perform the same or better than the H78DC3 in shadow detail/smoothness (less dithering).

Fleaman

When my HD72 arrives (who knows when), what are some classic screenshots I could post? I don't own the fifth element but I've seen that used a lot. What are some other "reference" screen shots I should post?

I just found out that my HD72 may arrive either tomorrow or Friday!! :D They just came off the boat in L.A. (from Asia), and they are overnighting me one directly from Optoma HQ!! I ordered from ProjectorPeople and I have been hounding one of their sales reps, Michael Norton, for the last 2 weeks to see if there was any way I could get one for the Super Bowl. I guess ProjectorPeople is getting the first 25 HD72's and they were willing to drop ship it to me overnight! I live in northern Idaho so it's not too far away. He told me that it's in Optoma's hands now and by the time he got a tracking number it would be to me already. So this isn't 100% confirmed, but it sounds very very likely that I'll have it tomorrow or Friday. I'm completely re-doing my theater set-up and getting ready for a huge Seahawks fans super bowl party, so I won't have time for a huge review, but I'll do the best I can and hopefully post some screenshots. Oh yeah, and report on the "official" offset too. Anything else you guys want me to test if it arrives? I can't wait!!! :D

Have fun with it applebuddy, look forward to hearing your firsthand impressions!

Oh and what's with this Texas A&M stuff over "The 12th Man" - oh please, get over it, go copyright something worth copyrighting.

Have fun with it applebuddy, look forward to hearing your firsthand impressions!

Oh and what's with this Texas A&M stuff over "The 12th Man" - oh please, get over it, go copyright something worth copyrighting.
So true! Jim Rome said it best on Monday when he said that Texas A&M can't claim any copyrights until they're a relevant team, which they haven't been in a really long time.

I'm completely re-doing my theater set-up and getting ready for a huge Seahawks fans super bowl party, so I won't have time for a huge review, but I'll do the best I can and hopefully post some screenshots. Oh yeah, and report on the "official" offset too. Anything else you guys want me to test if it arrives? I can't wait!!! :D

What projector are you replacing with the HD72? Maybe you mentioned in a previous post....

Fleaman

What projector are you replacing with the HD72? Maybe you mentioned in a previous post....
Actually this is my first projector! :p Like I mentioned before, my dad has an H57 but that's about it for my projector history. I'm only 23 years old, so I don't have a ton of experience. I understand more than 99% of people my age in terms of AV stuff, but I'm no expert with projectors. I'll be calibrating the HD72 with DVE as best I can, and I'll post my settings and some screenshots as soon as possible. I'll report on SDE, offset, rainbows, fan noise, etc. and I'll post some screenshots so you guys can get a good idea of PQ. Once I post that stuff I figure you guys can tell me other stuff to test, other screenshots you want, and even various settings I should adjust. I wish I had some test equipment to give accurate reports on color accuracy, CR, etc. but that equipment isn't high on my "stuff to get" list as of right now. I'll certainly give as accurate and complete a report as I can based on my knowledge. For now, any requests for things I should test and screenshots you want me to post are welcome!

I just found out that my HD72 may arrive either tomorrow or Friday!! :D They just came off the boat in L.A. (from Asia), and they are overnighting me one directly from Optoma HQ!! I ordered from ProjectorPeople and I have been hounding one of their sales reps, Michael Norton, for the last 2 weeks to see if there was any way I could get one for the Super Bowl. I guess ProjectorPeople is getting the first 25 HD72's and they were willing to drop ship it to me overnight! I live in northern Idaho so it's not too far away. He told me that it's in Optoma's hands now and by the time he got a tracking number it would be to me already. So this isn't 100% confirmed, but it sounds very very likely that I'll have it tomorrow or Friday. I'm completely re-doing my theater set-up and getting ready for a huge Seahawks fans super bowl party, so I won't have time for a huge review, but I'll do the best I can and hopefully post some screenshots. Oh yeah, and report on the "official" offset too. Anything else you guys want me to test if it arrives? I can't wait!!! :D

I am in the same boat as you - I am working with Ross at ProjectorPeople. I still have my AE900u (dead pixels, I did an "advance replacement") so I will be able to do a head to head with the two in the same room. Can't wait. Maybe I'll start a new thread on this.

Actually this is my first projector! :p Like I mentioned before, my dad has an H57 but that's about it for my projector history.

Well, if you can run a side by side comparison with your Dad's H57, that should be quite interesting.

Also, you might find that calibrating by eye with another projector (that's calibrated) running side by side can be easier to do than going through DVE.
It depends on the person, but I guess I got kinda good at calibrating against another PJ or TV by eye. But more importantly, if you do compare side by side with the H57, you will probably have to adjust by eye to make them as equal as possible.

Fleaman

My friend has a Sanyo PLV-Z4 that we could do a side by side test with. I'll try and set that up with him.

My friend has a Sanyo PLV-Z4 that we could do a side by side test with. I'll try and set that up with him.

That plus the ae900 comparisson from Ix would be VERY interesting!

That plus the ae900 comparisson from Ix would be VERY interesting!
Based on what I know of the 3 projectors, I'm almost certain the AE900 would win because of it's lack of SDE. However, I don't think that the majority of people do much viewing from 1x. Most (as far as I know) watch from 1.5x or more. Also, it seems that although the AE900 might win at 1x, it wouldn't mean it's a superior projector. Many people who have bought the AE900 complain about the "soft" look of the picture, due to how it "blends" pixels together, as compared to the Z4. That's one of the reasons I opted against the AE900, actually.

edited out, mis-post

Based on what I know of the 3 projectors, I'm almost certain the AE900 would win because of it's lack of SDE. However, I don't think that the majority of people do much viewing from 1x. Most (as far as I know) watch from 1.5x or more. Also, it seems that although the AE900 might win at 1x, it wouldn't mean it's a superior projector. Many people who have bought the AE900 complain about the "soft" look of the picture, due to how it "blends" pixels together, as compared to the Z4. That's one of the reasons I opted against the AE900, actually.


Haha, he meant "Ix" as in my username - I-X. Ix. The planet of technology in the Dune books (yes I am a geek). Not 1-x :)

Naturally I watch from 1.5x as do most folks.

Also I find SDE to be reduced with the AE900u, not eliminated, and and the soft picture Smoothscreen gives makes me constantly want to fiddle with the focus. Unless I am mistaken the SDE isn't nearly as much of an issue with DLP as it is LCD.

I am very, very interested to see the two head to head as well. I might be one of the only "early adopters" of the HD72 that also has an AE900u that I can put to the test in a light controlled room under the exact same conditions. I'll be sure to calibrate the HD72 as best I can with VE before I do, of course.

Looking forward to it! All the reviews/comparisons that are going to start hitting in the next couple of months should make for interesting reading. Great to see two folks that have access to both a new gen DLP and LCD....

As a side note, I think it is strange that we haven't seen any reviews yet from 'professional' sources. Didn't Optoma send out early releases for review?

This all sounds very cool indeed.

To compare shadow detail, I think the last Lord of the Rings and Gladiator are good bets.

Fleaman

As a side note, I think it is strange that we haven't seen any reviews yet from 'professional' sources. Didn't Optoma send out early releases for review?
From what Mike at ProjectorPeople told me, the HD72 units that just arrived in L.A. are the very first ones to hit the States. It seems weird to me too that they didn't send a smaller shipment sooner for professional reviews. Maybe they figure that "everyday people" reviews are as good as any!

It seems weird to me too that they didn't send a smaller shipment sooner for professional reviews. Maybe they figure that "everyday people" reviews are as good as any!

They probably learnt that from this forum.

'Guitarman's' praise for the H30 really got the ball rolling for that unit and it appeared so many bought the H30 on his praise alone, that Optoma started sending pre-production units directly to him!

Fleaman

....but apparently they didn't send him an early HD72, as so far he has been silent on it

I am also holding off pulling the trigger on an ae900, waiting for the early HD72 reviews. In my personal value calculation it will need to deliver significantly better sharpness and black levels to justify the $500 price difference (with the Panny rebate and assuming the Optoma is going to cost around $2000 for a while) particularly given its relative lack of positioning flexibility.

Also I find SDE to be reduced with the AE900u, not eliminated, and and the soft picture Smoothscreen gives makes me constantly want to fiddle with the focus. Unless I am mistaken the SDE isn't nearly as much of an issue with DLP as it is LCD.

SDE is less in DLP when compared to LCD of the same resolution, assuming no smoothing technology. However, SDE does exist in DLP. I tried a BenQ PE7700 before my AE900. At 1.5x, SDE was readily visible on the BenQ in bright areas of the image (and the 7700 is a bright projector). I can move to <1x before I see SDE on the 900. The 900 is at least as sharp as the 7700, and the 7700 is known as a pretty sharp projector as DLP goes.

I'm very interested to hear whether the DarkChip2 is improved over the HD2+ chip in terms of the inter-pixel gap.

Who do we ask to STICKY this thread? Since the HD72 is literally a day or two from arriving, it seems like it's about time! Also, they need to change the title of the thread to Optoma HD72.

SDE is less in DLP when compared to LCD of the same resolution, assuming no smoothing technology. However, SDE does exist in DLP. I tried a BenQ PE7700 before my AE900. At 1.5x, SDE was readily visible on the BenQ in bright areas of the image (and the 7700 is a bright projector). I can move to <1x before I see SDE on the 900. .

With DVD as a source, would you want to be 1x screen width away? Just curious at what point DVD starts to become the limiting factor with high resolution PJ.

Fleaman

i agree a sticky is loooooooooooooooong over due. jeff

With DVD as a source, would you want to be 1x screen width away? Just curious at what point DVD starts to become the limiting factor with high resolution PJ.

Fleaman

Based on my experience with the BenQ 7700 and Sharp z2000, I'd say that DVD resolution is not the limiting factor at 1x, assuming you have decent de-interlacing and scaling. The biggest issues that you would face at a 1x distance would be SDE and various inherent DLP artifacts like dithering. At 1x with the BenQ, shadow and color detail were pretty blocky, while they were very good at a normal viewing distance.

I've yet to hear how the DarkChip2 fill-rate compares to the HD2+, but I would say that unless it improves significantly, SDE is an issue up to at least 1.3x, with various DLP artifacts an issue up to about 1x. Your individual sensitivity to particular artifacts will play a role here.

IT'S HERE!! IT'S HERE!! My Optoma HD72 arrived today via FedEx overnight! :D I wasn't home to receive it (unfortunately) but I'm going to our local FedEx place tonight around 5:00 PM tonight to pick it up! I'll be installing & calibrating it this Friday & Saturday and I'll post some screenshots and a review as soon as possible. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I'm getting ready for a huge Super Bowl party this weekend, so I won't be able to post a review/screenshots tomorrow but Saturday night is pretty likely. Stay tuned!!

Based on my experience with the BenQ 7700 and Sharp z2000, I'd say that DVD resolution is not the limiting factor at 1x, assuming you have decent de-interlacing and scaling. The biggest issues that you would face at a 1x distance would be SDE and various inherent DLP artifacts like dithering. At 1x with the BenQ, shadow and color detail were pretty blocky, while they were very good at a normal viewing distance.

I've yet to hear how the DarkChip2 fill-rate compares to the HD2+, but I would say that unless it improves significantly, SDE is an issue up to at least 1.3x, with various DLP artifacts an issue up to about 1x. Your individual sensitivity to particular artifacts will play a role here.

Thanks! Very informative!

:)

Fleaman

OK, OK, so I wanted to settle the offset issue for you guys. I put the HD72 on our coffee table and projected on the wall to do a quick offset calculation. The projector was sitting perfectly level with no tilt and was lined up correctly with the wall. Here's what I came up with:

Zoom: NONE
Throw distance: 118" (9.9 feet)
Image Diagonal: 71"
Image Height: 35"
Distance from the center of the lens to the bottom of the picture: 13"

Zoom: Full 1.2x zoom
Throw distance: 118" (9.9 feet)
Image Diagonal: 86"
Image Height: 42"
Distance from the center of the lens to the bottom of the picture: 15.5"

I don't want to run the numbers for fear of doing the math wrong so one of you guys will have to figure out what the offset is. The offset does increase if you use the zoom. I think someone was wondering about that. I'll post more on the HD72 later, but for now I'm busy working on my whole setup. One thing I did want to say is that I really like the BrilliantColor technology. You can adjust it from 0-10 depending on your tastes. I ended up on 5 after watching a couple HD sources. It really does a nice job of increasing brightness AND color saturation at the same time. I'll report more later. Cheers everyone!

OK, OK, so I wanted to settle the offset issue for you guys. I put the HD72 on our coffee table and projected on the wall to do a quick offset calculation. The projector was sitting perfectly level with no tilt and was lined up correctly with the wall. Here's what I came up with:

Zoom: NONE
Throw distance: 118" (9.9 feet)
Image Diagonal: 71"
Image Height: 35"
Distance from the center of the lens to the bottom of the picture: 13"

Zoom: Full 1.2x zoom
Throw distance: 118" (9.9 feet)
Image Diagonal: 86"
Image Height: 42"
Distance from the center of the lens to the bottom of the picture: 15.5"

I don't want to run the numbers for fear of doing the math wrong so one of you guys will have to figure out what the offset is. The offset does increase if you use the zoom. I think someone was wondering about that. I'll post more on the HD72 later, but for now I'm busy working on my whole setup. One thing I did want to say is that I really like the BrilliantColor technology. You can adjust it from 0-10 depending on your tastes. I ended up on 5 after watching a couple HD sources. It really does a nice job of increasing brightness AND color saturation at the same time. I'll report more later. Cheers everyone!


Thanks myapplebuddy !!

Means that formula Optoma provided in their manual is all wrong. They said it only depends on throw distance and based on your data we can see that zoom is the factor as well. Per their formula top of the image (ceiling mount) is supposed to stay fixed when changing zoom and we see that the whole image is shifting with zoom.

One thing they got right though is that from 118 inches with no zoom offset should be 13.48", which you confirmed is correct.

Another bummer is that we now have to switch offset calculation based on the screen size and it is not pretty:

13/35 = 37.1 %

15.5/42 = 36.9%

So it seems that real offset is 37% of the screen size. Much worse then Mits HC3000 or upcoming IN76. WTF were they thinking ?

Enjoy your new PJ -- looking forward to your review !!!

Davie.

I have a couple of questions:

1) My preferable mounting would be upright at about 8' high (on a cabinet) displaying "down" onto the screen. Is this possible with this projector, or do I have to invert the projector?

2) How successful have you guys been with "bouncing" the Optoma IR remote signal off of the screen to the projector?

Looking forward to more review details from myapplebuddy!!!

Thanks....Kylster

So it seems that real offset is 37% of the screen size. Much worse then Mits HC3000 or upcoming IN76. WTF were they thinking ?


Davie.

Or much better if you ask me :D

Talk about YMMV.

Fleaman

I have a couple of questions:

1) My preferable mounting would be upright at about 8' high (on a cabinet) displaying "down" onto the screen. Is this possible with this projector, or do I have to invert the projector?

2) How successful have you guys been with "bouncing" the Optoma IR remote signal off of the screen to the projector?

Looking forward to more review details from myapplebuddy!!!

Thanks....Kylster


I got my HD72 this morning, and will be pitting it against the AE900u later this weekend.

To answer your questions:

1) No possible way, it HAS to be inverted from that height. The only way this projector will work in an upright position is low on the floor - like a foot off it. Ceiling mount is the only game in town really.

2) So far not successful at all and I am a little disappointed in that. My first AE900u wouldn't pick up the signal either but the second did. Maybe it's my screen.

Thanks myapplebuddy !!

Means that formula Optoma provided in their manual is all wrong. They said it only depends on throw distance and based on your data we can see that zoom is the factor as well. Per their formula top of the image (ceiling mount) is supposed to stay fixed when changing zoom and we see that the whole image is shifting with zoom.

One thing they got right though is that from 118 inches with no zoom offset should be 13.48", which you confirmed is correct.

Another bummer is that we now have to switch offset calculation based on the screen size and it is not pretty:

13/35 = 37.1 %

15.5/42 = 36.9%

So it seems that real offset is 37% of the screen size. Much worse then Mits HC3000 or upcoming IN76. WTF were they thinking ?

Enjoy your new PJ -- looking forward to your review !!!

Davie.

Where did they come up with the formula in the manual? Could it have been that difficult to translate into English :confused:

You're right. It looks like 37% of screen height. I'm still interested in the reviews, but this probably eliminates the HD72 for me. I'll have to get out the tape measure again.

Cool!! Let us know your early impressions. I ordered the Panny900U 2 days ago and hopefully will not regret my decision. The offset thing sort of killed it for me. Have fun!!

This thread is starting to split off into little review threads - can we please have a sticky?

STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry about the shouting ;)

This thread is starting to split off into little review threads - can we please have a sticky?

You'd rather have to wade through some goliath thread (like the AE900 thread) than be able to start threads on specific topics?

I'd rather see the later. Restricting discussion on any projector to one thread is ridiculous.

Finally it's a sticky! Can the administrators change the name of the thread to the Optoma HD72 instead of the Optoma H72?

I received mine about 4 hours ago, and here are my snap judgments. For me, this is an upgrade from a 4805, and on the whole, I'm very happy with it. But there are some problems.

BrilliantColor really isn't. Yeah, the image gets a LOT brighter, but the colors start to become cartoony, and there seems to be a substantial loss of detail.

The Image AI thing is kind of annoying because as the lamp gets brighter and dimmer, the fan gets louder and softer. I didn't really play around with this much at all.

For 4:3 content, you can choose between fitting it inside the 720 frame, or using the entire 768 height.

My biggest concern is that when I send a 1080i signal to the projector and set it to the native resolution, the image appears to be slightly larger than the native 480 signal (I'm assuming 540). Does this mean that the projector bobs instead of weaves? If so, does anyone know if the standard Motorola Comcast box bobs or weaves?

[QUOTE=mumbles3k]...BrilliantColor really isn't. Yeah, the image gets a LOT brighter, but the colors start to become cartoony, and there seems to be a substantial loss of detail.

The Image AI thing is kind of annoying because as the lamp gets brighter and dimmer, the fan gets louder and softer. I didn't really play around with this much at all.

QUOTE]

Your observation about BC is consistent with what some have observed on the Mits 3000.

How loud is the fan?

In "Bright" mode, the fan's still quieter than the InFocus 4805 in "Economy" mode. When "Bright" mode is off, I can barely hear it in an otherwise silent room, and the projector is right above my head on an 8ft. ceiling. I can only compare it to the 4805 and the Sanyo Z1, but it is substantially quieter than both of those.

How does the picture compare to the 4805?


Thanks,
Dennis

I think the picture is definitely better than 4805. So far I've only watched a couple scenes from REVENGE OF THE SITH, TERMINATOR 2, and TITANIC on DVD, and about the first 20 minutes of THE FIFTH ELEMENT in HD, which Comcast is offering for free on demand. There is substantially less SDE, which I guess makes sense considering the greater resolution. The colors seem more saturated, and the image is brighter than my 4805, but that has 1800 hours on it, so I'm not sure it's fair to compare. The blacks look good too. One thing which I did seem to be noticing more of were rainbows. But that could've just been me. I don't know. I haven't looked at them side by side, but these are my first impressions.

I think the Brilliant Color deal is in it's infancy due to most reports. It may have the 3020 chipset, but I bet later revisions will expose more positives when the tech matures and mates it with the spec. color wheel.

The Image AI thing is strange as well, I can't see how switching from high/low constantly is good for the bulb at all.

If you remove AI from the equation, your on/off drops to 3500:1, 5000:1 is a max on/off rating based on the whitest of peak whites and black when in a high mode not setup for D65k....

This spec is a dynamic range that would not neccessarily be used for movie viewing with accurate colors... now factor in a clear segment and you can more than likely expect about 2000:1 @ D65 tops.

The Hc3000 has a RGBRGB wheel and an Iris and does 2300:1 calibrated to D65k, so in hindsight the H72 with it's white segment may fall to under 2K:1 by the time cal is finished.

How is the dithering in the blacks? Motion artifacts? Menus?

I am anxious to see reports, I personaly own a H78dc3, but my friend is in need of an upgrade, and this looks like the stop gap deal until 1080p is reasonable.

The market needs another cost effective 720p unit, in my opinion the H72 and hc3000 are the only good choices currently sub 2k in a DLP

I have always noticed more rainbows on a brand new bulb/pj...the bulb is just cooking bright when new, that alone gives you the max on/off you'll ever get...they should diminish over the first 150 hrs.

Optoma has a knack at creating really saturated punchy images compared to the competition.

Good luck with it, can't wait to see some prof. reviews on it. Screenshots!!!

Happy Super Bowl this weekend....


TJ

I have a couple of questions:

2) How successful have you guys been with "bouncing" the Optoma IR remote signal off of the screen to the projector?


Thanks....Kylster

I have great success with my H31, but I'm not that far from the screen (9-10ft), which makes the total distance traveled 20ft max.

Fleaman

The market needs another cost effective 720p unit, in my opinion the H72 and hc3000 are the only good choices currently sub 2k in a DLP


I wish HC3000 would be under 2K, but the last time I checked the cheapest I could find from reputable dealer was around 2.5K -- Now this is a substantial drop from around 3K it was selling for just a week ago (tho with $300 rebate).

myapplebuddy where you at? :D

Besides the issue with the fan noise, how useful is the AI mode? Is it disturbing in terms of picture quality with the brightness changing?

Despite having the lowest quoted CR spec, I wonder if the Infocus will end up having the highest calibrated contrast of the three (HC3000, HD72, IN76)

I finally got a chance to calibrate mine via Video Essentials and Avia (consumer), and do a little head to head with my AE900u.

I'll post some pics later on (I'm not nearly through mounting and tweaking this thing yet) but for those of you who want my basic opinion now, here it is:

For picture quality, the HD72 wins. Hands down. Not even a contest.


Here's how I did it - Ceiling mounted my HD72 - which I did by attaching a painted 2x4 to the ceiling joists, then attaching the mount to it so I'd have room for lateral adjustments - and left my AE900u shelf mounted about 2 feet below it where it usually is. Both projectors were calibrated as best I could using VE/Avia and, in the case of the AE900u, some excellent suggestions from that projector's calibration thread. It's certainly no ISF level treatment but it's a far shot from the default out of box settings.

Second, I have my DVD player (the Oppo) hooked up via a long HDMI cable run to the back wall. Since I had plenty of slack with one on the shelf and the other on the ceiling it was easy to simply unplug the cable from one and plug it in to the other. That way I could do exact scene-by scene comparisions between the two projectors. Same goes for my HDTV OTA tuner, currently a H6000 also outputting via HDMI.

Movies:
Avia and Video Essentials
Gladiator (the new Extended Edition)
The Fifth Element (Superbit)
Wedding Crashers (Great for colors and whites, and always keeps me in a good mood while twiddling)
Star Wars (IV)
I Robot
Snatch (because I wanted to see how "styled/off-color" film looked)
Master and Commander (for greys)

I checked out scenes from each, went back and forth, etc. The real test came when I brought in my wife, who like many of our significant others here, could care less about home theater and thinks I am a nut for spending the money I do. I did a neutral blind test without telling her which I preferred or even which was which, since she was sitting in front of the projectors. She picked the HD72 without really even trying.

What makes this projector over the AE900u is contrast ratio and color, pure and simple. Blacks are just "blacker" on the HD72, something that is painfully obvious when the two are shown together. Whites "pop". This is without the HD72's "Image AI" turned on, by the way. I also turned BrilliantColor off for the test, but ended up putting it back to "3" - we really like it at that setting; personal preference. Even without it colors just "popped" more with the HD72; the AE900u's colors, which previously I thought of being a strong point for it, seem very muted next to the HD72 - again, this is after calibrating as best I could with consumer level tools.

I didn't notice any rainbows and neither did my wife but then I never have with DLP so I won't claim there aren't any. Blacks were very, very solid with perhaps a slight dithering noticable from about 1x screen width.

The last factor that made the HD72 stand out over the AE900u was sharpness - I've always felt that while Panasonic's "Smoothscreen" technology is great for getting rid of SDE - and for the most part it does - something gets lost; I constantly want to fiddle with the focus on it. The HD72 is sharp as a tack, razor sharp on the Avia test pattern, which really contributes to detail.

Now, I can't claim the HD72 is the overall hands down winner here, for one reason - the AE900u is about 100 times easier to mount and adjust. Vertical and Horizontal optical lens shift is one hell of a handy feature when it comes to setting up. In my room, the 2x zoom vs. the 1.2 on the HD72 wasn't much of an issue - I can throw an image with both that is as big as I need in my 13x14 room - but may matter to others. The AE900u is flat out more flexible and will work in more rooms, while the fixed offset and lack of optical lens shift of any kind makes the HD72 a real chore to get set right - I simply am going to adjust the screen to it, whereas with the Panasonic I could do the reverse.

That said, if picture quality is king, my very humble opinion is the HD72 wears the crown. Again, it's almost unfair - the AE900u doesn't look horrible, not by any means, and if you never saw the two together you'd never know it, but the HD72 trounces it. I'll get some high rez pics later after I finish getting the mounting and screen set for the darn Optoma:)


HD72 annoyances:

Weak remote. Won't bounce of the screen in my setup. Not a "learning" remote like the AE900u either but I care a lot less about that, and the Optoma has all the "important" functions like contrast, bright, mode, overscan, etc right on the remote.

Crappy offset. Looks to be around 37%. Pain to mount (thank God you only have to do it once).

Color adjustments are tricky. Missing are the traditional "hue" and "saturation" (color and tint) controls. You have either the BrilliantColor level adjustment, or the advanced menu where you can tweak separate RGB to your heart's content. This makes it more of a pain for your average Joe Blow with Avia to tweak but the pro's out there will probably appreciate it.

The menu's otherwise are excellent, clear, well laid out, and quick to navigate.

Finally, the HD72 is very, very quiet, actually it's a little quieter thant the AE900u, which is a quiet projector to start with.

More later.

Besides the issue with the fan noise, how useful is the AI mode? Is it disturbing in terms of picture quality with the brightness changing?

Despite having the lowest quoted CR spec, I wonder if the Infocus will end up having the highest calibrated contrast of the three (HC3000, HD72, IN76)

So far I'm not even using the AI mode/dynamic iris as I haven't seen a need for it - the contrast ratio is darn good without it. I'll turn it on later and see what happens. It's off by default, by the way.

"Whites "pop". This is without the HD72's dynamic iris turned on,"

This is the first I've heard (but I haven't been keeping up on this thread) of a DLP having DI.

Does it really, or are you referring to lamp modulation?

Thanks

"Whites "pop". This is without the HD72's dynamic iris turned on,"

This is the first I've heard (but I haven't been keeping up on this thread) of a DLP having DI.

Does it really, or are you referring to lamp modulation?

Thanks

Sorry, I may be thinking of how the AE900u does it - I'm referring to the HD72's Image AI feature, however that works. The effect from what I understand is supposed to be similar to how a dynamic iris works. I corrected my original post just to be clear.

Over component, at least, there are controls for color and tint.

I've played around a bit more with the BrilliantColor, and it definitely has its good points. The whites are so much brighter that it almost makes putting up with the other artifacts worthwhile. But not quite. I'm wondering how it would be for a black and white movie. I watched the opening scene of SIN CITY switching back and forth between the highest setting and the lowest, and for the most part it looked great. but whenever a color came onto the screen, all detail in the surrounding area was lost. I think I might try what Ix did, and turn it up just a bit.

As for dithering, I just learned what this was yesterday. But from what I've seen, it doesn't seem to be too bad. If you go right up to the screen, it's very noticeable. But over the course of HARD EIGHT, which is the only movie I've watched all the way through, I didn't see much of it at all.

Couple other quick notes:

The IR receiver is not on the front of the projector but the top; it works much better when properly ceiling mounted and inverted, and dummies like me take the plastic scratch wrap off the top:).

Constant Height fanatics, of which I am hoping to become one of, will be happy to know that the feature explained in the manual:

"LBX Mode: This format is for non-16x9, letterbox source and for users who use an external 16x9 lens to display 2:35.1 aspect ratio using full resolution"

Works as advertised, on all inputs and when fed an upconverted signal such as the 720p sent by the Oppo. In other words this is a pretty decent buy for those of you wanting to buy an anamorphic lens and a 2:35.1 screen.

Over component, at least, there are controls for color and tint.

I've played around a bit more with the BrilliantColor, and it definitely has its good points. The whites are so much brighter that it almost makes putting up with the other artifacts worthwhile. But not quite. I'm wondering how it would be for a black and white movie. I watched the opening scene of SIN CITY switching back and forth between the highest setting and the lowest, and for the most part it looked great. but whenever a color came onto the screen, all detail in the surrounding area was lost. I think I might try what Ix did, and turn it up just a bit.

As for dithering, I just learned what this was yesterday. But from what I've seen, it doesn't seem to be too bad. If you go right up to the screen, it's very noticeable. But over the course of HARD EIGHT, which is the only movie I've watched all the way through, I didn't see much of it at all.

Yeah, I didn't like it much turned up, but "3" was the magic number for us, and it's funny you mention Sin City because that's the movie I just put in to test:) Looks fantastic.

Color and Tint are on Component like you say but they are missing on the HDMI input for reasons I haven't figured out yet. I'm sure it isn't because they aren't important :confused:

Awesome impressions keep 'em coming :)

That darn offset is most likely a deal breaker for me :(

Wonder how it stacks up against the Z4....surely it can't be as sharp?

Sorry I've been absent from these discussions so far but I JUST finished mounting my projector (among many other things today). Like Ix noted, without lens shift it took a ton of measuring and a little guesswork to get the mount just right. I have a vaulted ceiling and a couple other architectural features in my living room made it a real pain to install. BUT, the saving grace is that the picture is outstanding. Ix already did such a wonderful write up so I'll echo some of what he said and throw in a couple other thoughts. Just FYI I am projecting onto a 96" Carada Brilliant White (1.4 gain) screen. Here's my "top ten":

First, the AI mode is indeed worthless. I didn't think it improved the picture that much, and it was especially annoying when the fan kept getting louder and softer depending on what was happening in the picture. My wife likes watching Project Runway, and she turned on the beginning of that show while I was playing with the AI setting. There were a lot of dark scenes and bright scenes immediately after one another and the HD72 basically seemed "confused" with AI mode on. I didn't feel it improved CR much, especially not enough to make up for the problems it causes.

Second, YOU DON'T NEED AI MODE - the blacks are amazing without it! I need to watch some really dark movies to test it further, but from what I've seen so far I am truly impressed. I don't know how much blacker blacks can get, but let's just say I'm perfectly happy with the performance of the HD72 in that area.

Third, this thing is whisper quiet. Unless you were sitting right next to it in a silent room, you won't even notice it's there. The only time I noticed the fan noise was when AI mode was on because the altering fan speeds drew attention to it.

Fourth, SDE is somewhat noticeable on bright material (especially whites and ligher colors) at 1X, but I don't see it at all at 1.5X and beyond. Like IX, I'm also glad Optoma didn't use something like Panasonic's Smoothscreen because the HD72 is an incredibly sharp projector.

Fifth, I really like the zoom & focus controls. They're really "stiff" in comparison to my dad's H57, which makes it much easier to lock in the correct settings. When I was calibrating my dad's H57, I never felt like the focus was really set firmly, and I always had this nagging feeling that the slightest gust of wind would throw it off! With the HD72, I can finally sleep again at night knowing that the focus will be just where I left it tonight when I wake up tomorrow!

Sixth, just like Ix, I love BrilliantColor on setting 3. It adds a nice punch to the brightness and color saturation to make the image jump out at you more, but at setting 3 it's not even close to overdone. Going backwards from setting 0 to setting 10 really lets you see how much BrilliantColor does for the image. Setting 10 is way to much, however, IMO.

Seventh, I love the 37% offset! I know I'm in the minority here, but it helps guys like me with high ceilings (in my case a vaulted ceiling) get the projector out of sight!

Eighth, the lack of lens shift makes this thing a pain to set up, especially considering many people using it will have relatively high ceilings. I did so many calculations to ensure I wouldn't have to use keystone correction that I felt like I was in high school math again! Like I mentioned above, my room sucks from the standpoint of getting pefect measurements for placement, so it was particularily difficult to get it just right. Also, I had a very small window for the placement of the screen which added to the "fun".

Ninth, I don't like the fact that the remote is weak. I can't "bounce" the signal off the screen, but since I sit right under the projector I can just point the remote straight up. It's just that I don't like to rotate my wrist too much - I'm afraid I'll get arthritis. On the other hand maybe the wrist movement will help me avoid atrophy. So I guess I'm neutral on this.

Tenth, did I mention I love the blacks?

I can't wait for the Super Bowl after watching some other HD stuff tonight! I have about 20 people coming over to cheer on our "hometown" Hawks (Seattle is the closest thing of significance to us) and I'm sure many of them will ask me three questions: First, how much? Second, where can I get one? Third, will you help me set it up? The answers to the first two questions will be $2,000 and ProjectorPeople, respectively. The answer to the third question will be a resounding NO!! I sincerely hope this is the last time I ever have to install a projector which lacks lens shift! I also want to again thank Mike Norton over at ProjectorPeople for getting this projector to me in time for the Super Bowl. Sorry if that sounds like an advertisment, but I was really impressed with his customer service in keeping me up to date with what was happening and for delivering when it counted. I'm a firm believer that thanks should be given where thanks are due!

It will be fun to do a side by side with my friend's Z4 early next week. His Z4 is also brand new, so it will be as equal a test as one could hope for.

To sum it all up, I am completely amazed that you can get such a quality picture for $2,000. I can't imagine that any other projector on the market in this price range has as great of a picture. I think the Z4 may be the closest from what I've read on the various forums, but I guess we'll have to wait and see!

That's all for now - I'm completely wasted from all the calculations today and my brain needs some rest. I'll post some screenshots tomorrow. Cheers!

On a side note, I'm sad that my Seahawks avatar was removed. :( They could have at least waited until after the Super Bowl! I have a sneaky suspicion that the administrator of this forum is a STEELERS FAN!!

"Finally, the HD72 is very, very quiet, actually it's a little quieter thant the AE900u, which is a quiet projector to start with"

In what lamp mode? Low or high?

Fifth, I really like the zoom & focus controls. They're really "stiff" in comparison to my dad's H57, which makes it much easier to lock in the correct settings. When I was calibrating my dad's H57, I never felt like the focus was really set firmly, and I always had this nagging feeling that the slightest gust of wind would throw it off! With the HD72, I can finally sleep again at night knowing that the focus will be just where I left it tonight when I wake up tomorrow!



Myapplebuddy,

How would you compare your HD72 to the H57? Blacks, colour, sharpness, etc..I've got an H57 right now, and I'm starting to see rainbows after switching to an HTPC. The picture is great, but the rainbows are driving me crazy. Very distracting.

I was actually thinking of upgrading to the HD72 for a little while now, assuming that there is a significant improvenet in image quality.

Thanks..and enjoy your new projector tomorrow!

From the various comments, it seems that the picture quality of the HD72 is first rate, particularly for its price point.

One question: At some point in the discussion, a comment was made that the unit was unsuitable for table or shelf mounting (due to its lens offset) except if it is placed near the floor. Is it really that bad? If so, this issue will likely be a deal breaker for me :( , because I need to shelf mount.

With users here reporting actual offset measurements of ~37%, I was wondering how a keystoned HD72 output would compare to LCDs like the AE900 or Z4?

Generally, keystoning has been panned left and right in every forum I've seen. BUT, I figure that the HD72 is still going to generate a fantastic picture compared to LCDs. For the price that this DLP is going for, I DO NOT expect it to be perfect for my home theatre as some people do.

I have watched a severely keystoned image before (an H27 that was shelf mounted 4 feet off the floor!) and I thought the image still looked great, although I must admit, I'm not really sure what "deterioration" I should have been looking for. By not knowing what to look for, I suppose "ignorance is bliss."

From the various comments, it seems that the picture quality of the HD72 is first rate, particularly for its price point.

One question: At some point in the discussion, a comment was made that the unit was unsuitable for table or shelf mounting (due to its lens offset) except if it is placed near the floor. Is it really that bad? If so, this issue will likely be a deal breaker for me :( , because I need to shelf mount.


The large offset means the picture is thrown way above the lens, or way below if the PJ is inverted. It should be fine for mountng on a table or shelf that is close to the floor, lower than a standard coffee table. That is probably the only way those of us with low ceilings willl be able to use it. "Shelf mount" usually means mounting the PJ upright with the lens pointing somewhere near the central area of the screen. Just behind and above a sofa for example. This PJ will NOT work that way. Basically, it has to be mounted either very high or very low.

I am getting an AE900 set up for a friend, I was considering getting the AE900 for myself but then I seen this and was instantly interested! My question is I do not want to mount the projector, so is a 21" table going to be low enough for this projector? I am going to be using a 92" optoma graywolf, and the ceiling is about 8.16 feet high. I have no problem moving the screen to fit the image......I do not think it should be a problem at all but I am just getting a second opinion.

I am getting an AE900 set up for a friend, I was considering getting the AE900 for myself but then I seen this and was instantly interested! My question is I do not want to mount the projector, so is a 21" table going to be low enough for this projector? I am going to be using a 92" optoma graywolf, and the ceiling is about 8.16 feet high. I have no problem moving the screen to fit the image......I do not think it should be a problem at all but I am just getting a second opinion.
You should be fine with that configuration. If the projector is on a 21" table and you want a 92" picture, the bottom of the image will end up being about 16.5" above the center of the lens, so it would be about 37.5" inches off the floor. Your image will be 45" high, so the top of your image will be 82.5" inches off the floor. That should still leave you enough room for the greywolf screen housing, but I would suggest checking those measurements in your room before making a final decision.

Well I ran through and did some quick measurements and it does look like there is plenty of room given the offset....I just wanted to see if I was well...wrong lol.

How would you compare your HD72 to the H57? Blacks, colour, sharpness, etc..I've got an H57 right now, and I'm starting to see rainbows after switching to an HTPC. The picture is great, but the rainbows are driving me crazy. Very distracting.
Definitely an improvement in all three of those catagories, but how much of an improvement I won't know until next week when hopefully I can convince my dad to unmount his H57 and bring it over. Another huge difference is resolution. The H57 is 1024x576 where the HD72 is a 1280x768. That makes a big difference, especially when watching HD material. One more thing that I forgot to mention above is that I LOVE the brightness of this projector! On LOW lamp mode with BrilliantColor on setting 3, the picture is amazingly bright on my 96" Carada Brilliant White screen. Bright lamp mode is overkill right now. As the lamp ages it may get to a point where I'll switch over to bright mode, but for now it's really amazing. My room is not light controlled whatsoever, and we we're still getting a great picture (other than washed out blacks of course) in the middle of the day with a good amount of ambient light in the room. It goes without saying that a dark room is ideal, but it's still gives a nice bright picture with some ambient light present in the room.

I've got an H57 right now, and I'm starting to see rainbows after switching to an HTPC. The picture is great, but the rainbows are driving me crazy. Very distracting.
Sorry I missed this part of your question. I've haven't been sensitive to DLP rainbows so far in my HT pursuits. I haven't seen them on the HD72 yet, but I never saw them on my dad's H57 either. So I don't really have an answer except to say the 57 has a 6 segment, 4x speed color wheel and the HD72 has a 7 segment, 4x speed color wheel (extra white segment for BrilliantWhite technology). It may be an issue for you but I can't say for sure.

The manual references an image shift control but is a little vague about it. Is this a full digital lens shift/image shift like the H31 has? In other words, can you move a 2.35:1 image to the top or bottom of your screen so that you can eliminate letterboxing on one side? Or is it like the Mits HC3000, where you can only move the 16:9 image a few inches up and down within the 15:9 frame? Thanks!

You should be fine with that configuration. If the projector is on a 21" table and you want a 92" picture, the bottom of the image will end up being about 16.5" above the center of the lens, so it would be about 37.5" inches off the floor. Your image will be 45" high, so the top of your image will be 82.5" inches off the floor. That should still leave you enough room for the greywolf screen housing, but I would suggest checking those measurements in your room before making a final decision.


For me, a 92" screen starting 37.5 inches from the floor would be too high. YMMV

For me, a 92" screen starting 37.5 inches from the floor would be too high. YMMV35"-45" is my optimum screen height range.....its perfect height from the recliners and if I am tired and I am laying on the floor to watch a movie I can lay down and that still offers a really great view.....at least for me as you said YMMV.....

The manual references an image shift control but is a little vague about it. Is this a full digital lens shift/image shift like the H31 has? In other words, can you move a 2.35:1 image to the top or bottom of your screen so that you can eliminate letterboxing on one side? Or is it like the Mits HC3000, where you can only move the 16:9 image a few inches up and down within the 15:9 frame? Thanks!
You can shift the image quite a bit, but unfortunately not all the way to the top or bottom of the screen. On my 96" screen it came a few inches short on either the top or bottom. The default value for image shift is 0, and the range you can shift it up or down is from -50 to +50. I'm not sure what unit of measurement those numbers represent.

You can shift the image quite a bit, but unfortunately not all the way to the top or bottom of the screen. On my 96" screen it came a few inches short on either the top or bottom. The default value for image shift is 0, and the range you can shift it up or down is from -50 to +50. I'm not sure what unit of measurement those numbers represent.

Wait, what;s the difference between image and lens shift?

From the various comments, it seems that the picture quality of the HD72 is first rate, particularly for its price point.

One question: At some point in the discussion, a comment was made that the unit was unsuitable for table or shelf mounting (due to its lens offset) except if it is placed near the floor. Is it really that bad? If so, this issue will likely be a deal breaker for me :( , because I need to shelf mount.

I've seen a lot of projectors and I've never seen anything close to the HD72 in terms of picture quality for under 2k. It really resembles a properly calibrated H78/H79 in a lot of ways and I bet most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

As for your second point, there is no possible way this projector could be shelf mounted. It either has to be very high up (well, not "very" high - I have 8 foot ceilings) or very low.

I am getting an AE900 set up for a friend, I was considering getting the AE900 for myself but then I seen this and was instantly interested! My question is I do not want to mount the projector, so is a 21" table going to be low enough for this projector? I am going to be using a 92" optoma graywolf, and the ceiling is about 8.16 feet high. I have no problem moving the screen to fit the image......I do not think it should be a problem at all but I am just getting a second opinion.

That "should" work - when I first tested it I had my HD72 about 24 inches off the floor which produced an image about 34 inches off at the bottom of the screen.

The manual references an image shift control but is a little vague about it. Is this a full digital lens shift/image shift like the H31 has? In other words, can you move a 2.35:1 image to the top or bottom of your screen so that you can eliminate letterboxing on one side? Or is it like the Mits HC3000, where you can only move the 16:9 image a few inches up and down within the 15:9 frame? Thanks!

I don't know if this answers your question or if you already know this but the HD72 specifically mentions support for an Anamorphic lens and 2:35.1 Constant Height setups using LBX model. If you mean doing without a lens, I can't say for sure, but the digital image shift range is pretty small.

Actually, I think I know what you are asking now - moving up or down to eliminate one of the black bars - and no, I don't think the range is enough to do that.

"Finally, the HD72 is very, very quiet, actually it's a little quieter thant the AE900u, which is a quiet projector to start with"

In what lamp mode? Low or high?


Low. And High. Seriously, I can't hear a difference at all when I switch between the two. The only time I hear the fan is when the unit starts, when you shut it off, and occasionally if the "Image AI" is used and it's a quiet scene. I don't find Image AI necessary at all and the picture is plenty bright in low lamp mode, although of course this is with a new bulb.

Speaking of that, and to comment on something Myapplebuddy mentioned - Lumen output aside I too have noticed that the the HD72 works very well in ambient light. I can actually keep my sconces turned on in low mode without affecting the picture. With other projectors like my AE900u or the H78DC3 I tried the picture was "watchable" but washed out. And this is on the same screen - a 1.0 gain DYI. Interesting.

Thanks myapplebuddy and Ix.

Wait, what;s the difference between image and lens shift?
Image shift (aka digital lens shift) lets you move a widescreen image within the fixed 16:9 frame. Essentially you're telling the PJ which pixels to use to show the image.

Optical lens shift (aka physical or mechanical lens shift) allows you to alter the position of your entire 16:9 image on your wall (and maintain proper geometry) by physically moving the lens assembly. It allows for very flexible and easy setup.

Just FYI I am projecting onto a 96" Carada Brilliant White (1.4 gain) screen.

Myapplebuddy, thanks for the good info -- keep it coming !!

Do you feel like Carada Brilliant White is a good match for HD72 ? You mentioned that your PJ is in the living room -- do you get a lot of ambient light ?

Also, what mount did you use for this PJ ? Does it have adjustable height ?

Can't wait for you to post the pictures.

Thanks, Davie.

Low. And High. Seriously, I can't hear a difference at all when I switch between the two. The only time I hear the fan is when the unit starts, when you shut it off, and occasionally if the "Image AI" is used and it's a quiet scene. I don't find Image AI necessary at all and the picture is plenty bright in low lamp mode, although of course this is with a new bulb.


Ix, thanks for the info.

I see you are in Denver just like me. Did you put 72 in high altitude mode and did you notice any difference in fan noise -- I understand that fan has to work quite a bit more to cool the lamp on elevation.

BTW, what part of Denver are you in -- I am in Parker (elevation 6150).

Thanks, Davie.

Ix, thanks for the info.

I see you are in Denver just like me. Did you put 72 in high altitude mode and did you notice any difference in fan noise -- I understand that fan has to work quite a bit more to cool the lamp on elevation.

BTW, what part of Denver are you in -- I am in Parker (elevation 6150).

Thanks, Davie.

Whoops, I keep forgetting to change my darn profile. I am actually in Austin, Texas now, elevation - a lot lower than Parker :).

From what I can tell High Altitude just keeps the fan on the whole time. You can hear it in this mode if there's no sound on, but I wouldn't call it annoying since it's constant. Image AI, where the fan cycles up, then down, then up, etc is actually the annoying part because you can hear the shifts in sound level. And even that isn't too bad.

Seriously though, this is a very quiet projector, High Altitude mode or no. I don't even think about it when a movie is on.

First off, I have to say, Excellent reviews by myapplebuddy and Ix!! Very well done and very informative.

I've seen a lot of projectors and I've never seen anything close to the HD72 in terms of picture quality for under 2k. It really resembles a properly calibrated H78/H79 in a lot of ways and I bet most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
----

....Lumen output aside I too have noticed that the the HD72 works very well in ambient light. I can actually keep my sconces turned on in low mode without affecting the picture. With other projectors like my AE900u or the H78DC3 I tried the picture was "watchable" but washed out. And this is on the same screen - a 1.0 gain DYI. Interesting.

Can you comment on the dithering/shadow detail differences between the H78DC3 and the HD72? I guess you probably don't have an H78DC3 to compare side by side, but I'm hoping your maniacal projector-photographic-memory will help out here :)

On paper, the H78DC3 should do better, with the extra dark green segments and supposedly 'real' DC3 chip. But in practice?

Fleaman

First off, I have to say, Excellent reviews by myapplebuddy and Ix!! Very well done and very informative.



Can you comment on the dithering/shadow detail differences between the H78DC3 and the HD72? I guess you probably don't have an H78DC3 to compare side by side, but I'm hoping your maniacal projector-photographic-memory will help out here :)

On paper, the H78DC3 should do better, with the extra dark green segments and supposedly 'real' DC3 chip. But in practice?

Fleaman

Alas I don't have it any more to try - now that would have been fun - but specs aside I would call it extremely close, if not impossible to distinguish for all but the most hardcore videophile who wouldn't be using either projector anyway.

The HD72 is calibrated pretty well out of the box - in my setup, contrast was way off along with brightness, and there was a slight blue bias lending to "colder" whites, but all that was easily corrected. The HD78DC3 had a pretty large green bias/green push that took a bit of tweaking to fix.

From 1.5x viewing I honestly don't think I would be able to tell the difference. Blacks on the HD72 are solid; dithering and artifacts almost non-existant. I had to move closer to the screen to see evidence of either. I think the HD78DC3 was able to achieve slightly blacker blacks, but the fact that I can't even be sure should tell you something.

I've been playing with the HD72 all day and I am still just very impressed with the image. For the price it is just amazing, I really think the next step up would be the newer 1080p projectors as far as LCD or single chip DLP goes.

Do you feel like Carada Brilliant White is a good match for HD72 ? You mentioned that your PJ is in the living room -- do you get a lot of ambient light?
Yes I get a lot of ambient light and the combination of the HD72 with the Carada screen is perfect for me. The image is plenty bright enough even with ambient light present in the room. Obviously direct sunlight is a bad thing for ANY projector, so it's better if the ambient light is indirect. We had a few of the living room lights on and a good amount of indirect natural light coming through the windows yesterday and my wife was amazed at how good the picture still looked. She had expected it to be all washed out and terrible in the daytime but instead decided that it will be great to use during the day when I'm at work! In a way that could be a negative thing because it means more bulb use! :)

Also, what mount did you use for this PJ ? Does it have adjustable height ?
I have a cathedral ceiling so I'm using the Peerless cathedral ceiling adaptor (white color), with an 11" long 1 1/2" galvanized pipe extension (got it made at Lowe's), and the Peerless Spyder Universal Mount (white color). I'm going to prime and spray paint the pipe white so everything is white to match the projector.

Well guys, you probably won't hear from me again until tonight, which for those of you on the east coast might be pretty late. I have to finish installing everything (it's all sort of a "temporary" set up right now) and get my house ready for the big game tomorrow. About the picture posting, I have an old Panasonic DVD player currently. I've been going back and forth between getting an Oppo or holding out for Blu-Ray. I'm sort of worried about posting DVD screenshots because I think the player itself is really limited. And when I say old Panasonic DVD player, I mean pre-progressive scan players old. I've only had a 32" CRT up until now so it hasn't been as critical. So, I think my initial screenshots will be of HD sources until I get a new DVD player. Seeing as how the Blu-Ray players won't be out for awhile, I'll probably order an Oppo to "tide me over".

(well, not "very" high - I have 8 foot ceilings).

Wait a minute...did you just say you have 8 foot ceilings?

I thought people with 8 foot ceiling be SOL with the HD72? Yours is ceiling mounted and it doesn't pose a problem? How far off the ground is your screen?

My ceiling is somewhere between 8 and 9 feet high so if this is the case this is VERY good news!!!

I have an 'L' shaped room and my H31 screen is mounted in a way that there is a ceiling fan lamp behind the screen (not in front like the projector). When I turn that lamp on, it makes just about no difference in the pic quality since it's not direct light....the lamp bounces off the walls and finally does make it to the screen, but it's hardly noticeable.

Turning a light on in front of the screen is another matter....

Ix > Thanks for the opinion! I might be one of those a.nal videophiles! Dithering bothers me even though I have to get to 1x or sometimes 1.5x screen width to see. For my next PJ I'm kinda on a quest for the smoothest blacks/shadow detail PJ, even at 1x screen width. Many have said the H31 has very low dithering, others say it's there. It does depend on how far from the screen you are. I admit to walking up to the screen and wincing at my dithering. I can also usually see dithering before I see SDE (most of the time). Hence the H78DC with the faster chip and extra segments has been on my hot list for a while....but with the HD72 out, maybe the price on the H78DC3 will drop some....

Well, I probably won't do anything for a few months anyway, but then a Optoma HD75 will be out :rolleyes:

Fleaman

I will be doing ceiling mounting and will need adjustable height mount for HD72 so I can play with mount height to fit my screen vs the other way around -- I don't really need to have tilt in the mount, but if it is available I wouldn't mind to have it as well. The max height adjustment will need to be no more than 12 inches.

Since I am new to mounts I would appreciate if anybody can recommend a mount that will be a good fit for HD72. I found quite a few mounts on Optoma web site, but they don't have any specs (just Buy now button) or HD72 specific mounts.

Also, are HD72 mounting options similar to any other Optoma projectors or are they specific to HD72 only ? I mean, if I buy mount designed for 78DC3 or H31 will it fit HD72 ?

Thanks, Davie.

Pretty much most mounts are 'universal' and adjustable to fit just about any PJ.

The mounts on Projector Manufacture sites are usually universal mounts...but they sometimes list them to fit a certain PJ specifically, to scare you into thinking it's the only mount that will fit....boom, sale!

Fleaman

Pretty much most mounts are 'universal' and adjustable to fit just about any PJ.

The mounts on Projector Manufacture sites are usually universal mounts...but they sometimes list them to fit a certain PJ specifically, to scare you into thinking it's the only mount that will fit....boom, sale!

Fleaman

Thanks Fleaman, so your are saying if I buy any 'universal' mount it should be OK for HD72 ? I see that all 'universal' mounts have only 3 arms to connect to PJ and HD72 supposed to be connected in 4 places, not sure how big of a deal this is.
Are there 'universal' mounts with 4 arms ?

Can you recommend any particular brand of 'universal' mount that has adjustable height option ?

Davie

From what I can tell High Altitude just keeps the fan on the whole time. You can hear it in this mode if there's no sound on, but I wouldn't call it annoying since it's constant. Image AI, where the fan cycles up, then down, then up, etc is actually the annoying part because you can hear the shifts in sound level. And even that isn't too bad.

When you turn ImageAI and High Altitude on at the same time, does the fan stay constantly in high speed mode?

On paper, the H78DC3 should do better, with the extra dark green segments and supposedly 'real' DC3 chip. But in practice?

On paper the H78DC3 should be better for the greens worms or noise in the lower blacks. However for temporal dithering/contouring, the new DDP3020 in the HD72 may be a big improvement over the older DMD controller in the H78DC3 (at least I *think* I read the HD72 has it). Apparently the DMD can move mirrors as fast as the controller can send data over. At the very least I'd expect the HD72 to be on par with the H78DC3 in this respect.

Has anyone who's been bothered with or noticed temporal dithering seen a HD72?

Wait a minute...did you just say you have 8 foot ceilings?

I thought people with 8 foot ceiling be SOL with the HD72? Yours is ceiling mounted and it doesn't pose a problem? How far off the ground is your screen?

My ceiling is somewhere between 8 and 9 feet high so if this is the case this is VERY good news!!!


Yes I have it ceiling mounted on an 8 foot ceiling. I use a Chief RPA low-profile mount, which puts it about 3 inches from the lens to top.

The bottom of my screen is about 34 inches from the floor with the top about 13-14 inches. It's actually a bit high and I am thinking about going back to my 2x4 setup (which I removed once I had the lateral spacing set) or getting maybe a 2 inch pipe extension. I'm holding off for now while I look at 2:35.1 screens and check out my options there.

In any case, I am certainly using it in an 8 foot ceiling environment with no problems that I can tell. I'll post some pics later today.

Thanks myapplebuddy and Ix.


Image shift (aka digital lens shift) lets you move a widescreen image within the fixed 16:9 frame. Essentially you're telling the PJ which pixels to use to show the image.

Optical lens shift (aka physical or mechanical lens shift) allows you to alter the position of your entire 16:9 image on your wall (and maintain proper geometry) by physically moving the lens assembly. It allows for very flexible and easy setup.

If memory serves (and at my age that is questionable)... I believe TzungLin mentioned that what the image shift does is move the image up and down within the DMD limits... this DMD is native 1280x768 so for a 16x9 1280x720 image you have 48 unused vertical pixels. Therefore I believe the image shift option allows you to move the image up or down 24 vertical pixels from center.

Ix.....

You did not mention what size your 1.0 DIY screen is....

anyone feel like posting a few images?

Ix,

What is your throw distance and screen size? I see where your screen is 14" fun the ceiling and 34" from the floor, so I guess your screen is 48" high. Is this correct?

Steve

Yes I have it ceiling mounted on an 8 foot ceiling. I use a Chief RPA low-profile mount, which puts it about 3 inches from the lens to top.

The bottom of my screen is about 34 inches from the floor with the top about 13-14 inches. It's actually a bit high and I am thinking about going back to my 2x4 setup (which I removed once I had the lateral spacing set) or getting maybe a 2 inch pipe extension. I'm holding off for now while I look at 2:35.1 screens and check out my options there.

In any case, I am certainly using it in an 8 foot ceiling environment with no problems that I can tell. I'll post some pics later today.

Ix, if the top of your screen is 13-14 inches from the ceiling and your mount puts the PJ lens 3 inches below the ceiling, that puts the top of your screen at 10-11 inches below the lens. I infer (as did SCM) that your screen must be around 48 inches tall. This would mean that the PJ offset is only around 22% of screen height! Maybe I'm missing something, but this is a much milder offset than the 37% that has been reported elsewhere. If I am understanding your install correctly, and assuming you are not using any keystoning, this would be fantastic news for a lot of us "ceiling height challenged" folks.

Memory comparisons for absolute differences will never achieve accurate results.
You have to have the units side by side to "really" see the difference.

I used to think my Lt240k was a great video projector until my friend brought over a 4805 and showed me the "light: if you will, that event changed my opinion on Biz PJ vs. Ht ones for good.

Side by side screenshots would be great, maybe Guitarman could do a run with say:

H31
H79
HD72

He has the first two, and I wonder why he has not chimed in here? He usually ushers in the new Optoma offerings?

Maybe..

TJ

anyone want to comment on the perormance of keystone adjustment (ie. if it is implimented out of necessity)

When you turn ImageAI and High Altitude on at the same time, does the fan stay constantly in high speed mode?

I'd like to know this as well.

Like eclipse98, I'm in Parker at about 6000', and I'd really like to know how the high altitude mode compares. The manual says that in high altitude mode the fan runs at full speed. How does "full speed" compare with normal mode?

On paper the H78DC3 should be better for the greens worms or noise in the lower blacks. However for temporal dithering/contouring, the new DDP3020 in the HD72 may be a big improvement over the older DMD controller in the H78DC3 (at least I *think* I read the HD72 has it). Apparently the DMD can move mirrors as fast as the controller can send data over. At the very least I'd expect the HD72 to be on par with the H78DC3 in this respect.

Has anyone who's been bothered with or noticed temporal dithering seen a HD72?

Yes, this is the interesting part of differences between these 2 PJ's, which is why I can wait for someone to do a side-by-side comparison of both.

Fleaman

Thanks Fleaman, so your are saying if I buy any 'universal' mount it should be OK for HD72 ? I see that all 'universal' mounts have only 3 arms to connect to PJ and HD72 supposed to be connected in 4 places, not sure how big of a deal this is.
Are there 'universal' mounts with 4 arms ?

Can you recommend any particular brand of 'universal' mount that has adjustable height option ?

Davie

My H31 only has 3 mount points (not including the center tripod mount). I have a universal mount that came with 4 adjustable arms, but only use 3 of them. I'm surprised that the HD72 has 4 mount points (not including the center tripod point)?? My H31 weighs about 4lbs, and I think the HD72 won't be much more.

I got lucky with my mount, it is like a $200+ mount that the manufacture sold direct on ebay almost a year ago for like $80. Now it appears that no one can find them for anything close to that amount. This is the thread on it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516642

It had adjustable length, 360* rotation and pitch/yaw, plus, the best thing was it had a quick disconnect feature. You can pop the mount off the extension with the main part still attached to the PJ, so your alignment would stay the same when to click it back on the ceiling mount part.

I don't think you can get this mount for much less than $200 now, but I haven't checked lately...

Fleaman

Color adjustments are tricky. Missing are the traditional "hue" and "saturation" (color and tint) controls. You have either the BrilliantColor level adjustment, or the advanced menu where you can tweak separate RGB to your heart's content. This makes it more of a pain for your average Joe Blow with Avia to tweak but the pro's out there will probably appreciate it.


What the hell? RGB gains and offsets are for greyscale adjustments - not color and tint correction. This is very strange.

Well, TheaterTek does have color/tint controls, so I guess I'm OK here should I choose to get one. I guess one has to hope that their player has these controls on it. This was a common complaint about the 4805 when running 480p - but was fixed with a firmware update.

Ix, if the top of your screen is 13-14 inches from the ceiling and your mount puts the PJ lens 3 inches below the ceiling, that puts the top of your screen at 10-11 inches below the lens. I infer (as did SCM) that your screen must be around 48 inches tall. This would mean that the PJ offset is only around 22% of screen height! Maybe I'm missing something, but this is a much milder offset than the 37% that has been reported elsewhere. If I am understanding your install correctly, and assuming you are not using any keystoning, this would be fantastic news for a lot of us "ceiling height challenged" folks.

Bigsmith, very good catch !!

Ix, I would like to know a little more detail as well about your mounting numbers.

When you say your lens is 3 inches from the ceiling, do you mean center of lens or the top edge of lens. I am guessing it should be the top edge of the lens since your low profile mount adds 2.5 inches to installation height. But that puts center of the lens even lower -- PJ is 4 inches high so the center of the lens should be another 2 inches below the top edge and that brings it to 5 inches below ceiling, leaving 8-9 inches for offset. With 37% offset that makes your screen 24 inches high, which can't be.

I am intrigued -- can you give us some more detail about your mounting ?

Thanks, Davie.

For me the center of the lens is 100" off the floor. The top of the image is 85" off the floor. That's a difference of 15". The screen is a 96" diagonal (47" vertical). So in my case it's a 32" offset and I'm using a slight bit of zoom. My image isn't perfectly geometric because I got tired of making small adjustments over and over but it's pretty darn close to perfect. The 32% offset number may be off slightly.

For me the center of the lens is 100" off the floor. The top of the image is 85" off the floor. That's a difference of 15". The screen is a 96" diagonal (47" vertical). So in my case it's a 32" offset and I'm using a slight bit of zoom. My image isn't perfectly geometric because I got tired of making small adjustments over and over but it's pretty darn close to perfect. The 32% offset number may be off slightly.

Thanks Myapplebuddy,

A lot of people can breathe a little easier after initial shocking 37% offset news -- sorry for the bad news Fleaman :).

Thanks Myapplebuddy,

A lot of people can breathe a little easier after initial shocking 37% offset news -- sorry for the bad news Fleaman :).

Darn!

But ya never know...if his PJ isn't perfectly square to the screen, just 2 degrees tilt can make that offset look much worse or better (depending on how you look at it).

Squaring a PJ perfectly to the screen is not easy...let me tell you!

Fleaman

I got lucky with my mount, it is like a $200+ mount that the manufacture sold direct on ebay almost a year ago for like $80. Now it appears that no one can find them for anything close to that amount. This is the thread on it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516642

It had adjustable length, 360* rotation and pitch/yaw, plus, the best thing was it had a quick disconnect feature. You can pop the mount off the extension with the main part still attached to the PJ, so your alignment would stay the same when to click it back on the ceiling mount part.

I don't think you can get this mount for much less than $200 now, but I haven't checked lately...

FleamanIs this like the one you referred to? [url]http://cgi.*********/PROJECTOR-CEILING-WALL-MOUNT-BRACKET-LCD-STEEL-ALLOY_W0QQitemZ5862158618QQcategoryZ71584QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIte m

Is this like the one you referred to? [url]http://cgi.*********/PROJECTOR-CEILING-WALL-MOUNT-BRACKET-LCD-STEEL-ALLOY_W0QQitemZ5862158618QQcategoryZ71584QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIte m

AVS filters out ebay links....but I searched ebay and found out the mount you were looking at is from a seller called 'netmounts'. DO NOT trust this seller, they are a bait and switch seller....the mount in the pic isn't really what you get most of the time and it's a cheap mount from what I hear. Read the feedbacks they got and also read the last page on the AVS link I posted above.

Fleaman

AVS filters out ebay links....but I searched ebay and found out the mount you were looking at is from a seller called 'netmounts'. DO NOT trust this seller, they are a bait and switch seller....the mount in the pic isn't really what you get most of the time and it's a cheap mount from what I hear. Read the feedbacks they got and also read the last page on the AVS link I posted above.

Fleaman

Actually the mount in the picture is the one you see (most of the time). They switched to some cheap a$$ mount and it's way ugly compared to the one they used to sell. For a time they were still showing the older (nicer) mount in the add and selling the other one. This obviously pissed a lot of people off. Some of the adds show two pictures, one of each mount. Very confusing....

This projector is sounding promising. I have 8' ceilings, and if you can get your working with 8' ceilings Ix, that puts it in the running for me. (even if it takes awhile, and a pain to setup... as long as when I'm done it works)

I'm also considering the h78dc3, since projectorpeople has a decent deal on them right now, and I can afford the price difference. Of course, if I get the h72 maybe I can get some other cool stuff (like some better speakers :p)

Man this is a hard decision... I've agonized over what projector to get longer than I agonized over what house to buy :p

btw... Ix... I'm a fellow Austin-ite!

Thanks for the early impressions guys, much appreciated. Great to hear such unanimous praise :)

Just wondered whether somebody would be so kind as to measure the outer diameter of the lens rim? I'm looking to pair mine with an ND2 filter to reduce the brightness (100% light controlled environment at all times) for at least the first 500 hours of bulb life, and wouldn't mind knowing whether my current one would fit or whether I should be ordering a different size in preparation for when the HD72's land over here in the UK. Cheers in advance...

Damian.

For the people that already have their HD72, how does 1080i look on it (scaling artifacts, jaggies, etc.)? Can you confirm if it is weaving (1080P) or bobbing (540P)? Lastly, do you know which Faroudja chip it is using?

Thanks
Mike

The Peerless universal spyder mount mentionned in previous posts has 4 mount points in case anyone's wondering. This may help some of you. It puts the lens center about three or four inches from the ceiling with no extension attachment. It helped with my lower ceiling and zero offset projector (not the HD72). It might help with a higher ceiling setup with a high offset projector like the HD72.

I found the Peerless to be engineered with good quality materials and almost excellent adjustability. The only adjustment that's not great is the horizontal adjustment.

Ix or applebuddy,

Question:

Can you completely turned off the H72 while the PJ is still plugged in?

I'm hoping my next PJ can be turned off via remote and still be left plugged in. I really don't want to install a switch on my outlet if I don't have too :)

I hear rumors that the IN76 has this feature...

While it's obviously not a deal breaker since I deal with it now, it would be a huge + for me :)

Ix or applebuddy,

Question:

Can you completely turned off the H72 while the PJ is still plugged in?

I'm hoping my next PJ can be turned off via remote and still be left plugged in. I really don't want to install a switch on my outlet if I don't have too :)

I hear rumors that the IN76 has this feature...

While it's obviously not a deal breaker since I deal with it now, it would be a huge + for me :)

You mean off off, and not standby? No, you have to hit the hard power switch for that.

I have more updates coming on this thing. I love the picture but GOOD GOD is it a pain the butt to mount on a low ceiling. There were a couple times last night when I was darn near willing to drop a grand and a half more for the H78DC3 just to get vertical lens shift!

More later:)

You mean off off, and not standby? No, you have to hit the hard power switch for that.

He is probably wondering if the cooling fans ever stop running when turned off with the remote. With the Infocus X1 you have to actually flip the hard power switch to stop the fans. Otherwise it acts as a whole house air filter.

He is probably wondering if the cooling fans ever stop running when turned off with the remote. With the Infocus X1 you have to actually flip the hard power switch to stop the fans. Otherwise it acts as a whole house air filter.


Oh, I see. No, the fans completely turn off when you power the HD72 down with the remote, after about 30 seconds or so of "cool down".

Speaking of fans, for you high altitude guys, the fans with Image AI and High Altitude mode both on are about 28-30db with my sound meter vs. about 23-25 db without. Unless you are standing or sitting right near the projector you won't notice it; I barely did with it above me mounted to the ceiling.

In High Altitude mode there still is a small shift in sound level when AI mode kicks in but it is less perceptible.

You mean off off, and not standby? No, you have to hit the hard power switch for that.

I have more updates coming on this thing. I love the picture but GOOD GOD is it a pain the butt to mount on a low ceiling. There were a couple times last night when I was darn near willing to drop a grand and a half more for the H78DC3 just to get vertical lens shift!

More later:)

I kind of mean everyone you guys are talking about :)

What I was wondering more is if it runs kind of like a TV does or if it's more like a PJ.

So my current PJ goes through the cool down cycle after i hit the power button and then I power it completely off. At that point it goes into a standby mode (power light flashes etc).

I'm wondering if this Optima stays in a standby type mode while it's plugged in or if it can be totally shut off without removing the power cord. (via remote)

My current cheap pj doesn't like it too much when I keep feeding power too it because of it's standby mode. I don't like to leave it plugged in while it's still being powered. I really would like a PJ that I can leave plugged in at all times since I have a outlet in my celing.

well I am pretty much convinced....I am ordering it this week when I get my money....

Speaking of fans, for you high altitude guys, the fans with Image AI and High Altitude mode both on are about 28-30db with my sound meter vs. about 23-25 db without. Unless you are standing or sitting right near the projector you won't notice it; I barely did with it above me mounted to the ceiling.


Ix, thanks for altitude noise info.

Looks like you change mounting for your PJ, can you post your new numebrs for offset, etc.

Davie.

well I am pretty much convinced....I am ordering it this week when I get my money....


Ask for Ross at Projectorpeople and make sure you told him Geoff recommended you:) I don't get anything for it but I like to keep good relations with sales people.

If you can't reach Ross I believe myapplebuddy worked with a good rep at PP as well.

Ix, thanks for altitude noise info.

Looks like you change mounting for your PJ, can you post your new numebrs for offset, etc.

Davie.

As soon as I am done because believe it or not I am still working on it. The Chief RPA mount and this projector need quite a bit of tweaking and some trips to Home Depot for different screws and such, and it is an unbelievable PITA to get this thing level and squared off with an 8 foot ceiling. I am trying to get it perfect so I can get you guys the final verdict on the offset.

I am using a 100' diagonal screen, by the way - 49x87. I am thinking about going with a 2:35.1 setup next, which would be 47x110.

Mitsubishi just lowered MSRP on the HC3000 to $2499, so it should soon be streeting for about the same price as the HD72. Anyone have any thoughts on which PJ is the better deal if they are the same price? .

Ask for Ross at Projectorpeople and make sure you told him Geoff recommended you:) I don't get anything for it but I like to keep good relations with sales people.

If you can't reach Ross I believe myapplebuddy worked with a good rep at PP as well.I am gonna talk to Jason or Dave at AVS and see if they have any HD72's yet or not.....

Ix,

It looks like your 8ft ceilings work for the HD72. My screen size is 120" with 8ft ceilings. Do you think it would work without the screen too close to the floor? I really want this projector because of the 10 level brilliantcolor feature but may have to go with the infocus in76 due to the offset.

Also, how is the brightness of this projector?

For a 120"screen, the bottom will be about 12" to 15" off the floor. Too low, IMHO. That's why the HD72 won't work for me (and my 106" screen - with my setup, I need at least 24" from the floor to the bottom of the screen) :mad:.

I wish Optoma, Mitsubishi, & others wouldn't assume that people want a large offset (I'm assuming it's really the people making the lens system that they are using - and I'm mad about it, because it means that I can't even consider using these new PJs).

For a 120"screen, the bottom will be about 12" to 15" off the floor. Too low, IMHO. That's why the HD72 won't work for me (and my 106" screen - with my setup, I need at least 24" from the floor to the bottom of the screen) :mad:.

I wish Optoma, Mitsubishi, & others wouldn't assume that people want a large offset (I'm assuming it's really the people making the lens system that they are using - and I'm mad about it, because it means that I can't even consider using these new PJs).

I don't really consider this a large offset, in fact, it's quite a normal offset before the newer trend (last 1 1/2 years) of zero offset PJ's like the PE7700, etc.

I actually prefer an more drastic offset than the HD72, but I'll take what I can considering the trend for many new HT PJ's these days tend to take the zero offset route.

I wish many wouldn't assume that everyone wants zero offset PJ's. I don't want to hit my head on my PJ hanging 4ft down from my ceiling.

YMMV.

Fleaman

For a 120"screen, the bottom will be about 12" to 15" off the floor. Too low, IMHO. That's why the HD72 won't work for me (and my 106" screen - with my setup, I need at least 24" from the floor to the bottom of the screen) :mad:.

I wish Optoma, Mitsubishi, & others wouldn't assume that people want a large offset (I'm assuming it's really the people making the lens system that they are using - and I'm mad about it, because it means that I can't even consider using these new PJs).
When you says this, how far back are you estimating the projector to be mounted? Standard throw no zoom from what I have seen would make this about a 14 foot throw? Is that what you are estimating?

BTW, what is the optimal distance to have a 120", or 106" screen off the floor?

Ix,

It looks like your 8ft ceilings work for the HD72. My screen size is 120" with 8ft ceilings. Do you think it would work without the screen too close to the floor? I really want this projector because of the 10 level brilliantcolor feature but may have to go with the infocus in76 due to the offset.

Also, how is the brightness of this projector?

I wouldn't call it just yet. I'm still working on leveling the thing out (taking a Superbowl break) to make sure I won't be dealing with any keystoning issues. Yes, it's that close with a 100' screen.

The 120 "might" work but the real question is, how much room do you have to play with? The offset on this thing changes with the zoom level - at full zoom in my room the image is way too low if that gives you any idea.

I do like this thing but it is such a tremendous pain to mount, which I just can't shut up about I know. If I had 9 foot ceilings or even 8.5 this wouldn't even be an issue, but it's so close with 8 foot that even .5 inches makes the difference. I had to modify my mount twice, once just to get it to work - the HD72 has 4 mount points in a very small rectangle which is just stupid and hard to adjust with most "universal" mount types, and I had to work around the adjustable feet on mine (by removing them) to get another inch back towards the top. That's how darn close it is.

I swear to god if this doesn't work and I can't avoid keystoning I'm returning this and spending the considerable extra cash on an H78DC3. Even a tiny bit of vertical shift would make all the difference here.

For a 120"screen, the bottom will be about 12" to 15" off the floor. Too low, IMHO. That's why the HD72 won't work for me (and my 106" screen - with my setup, I need at least 24" from the floor to the bottom of the screen) :mad:.

I wish Optoma, Mitsubishi, & others wouldn't assume that people want a large offset (I'm assuming it's really the people making the lens system that they are using - and I'm mad about it, because it means that I can't even consider using these new PJs).

You can probably tilt the PJ upward a bit and shim out the top of the screen.

I do like this thing but it is such a tremendous pain to mount, which I just can't shut up about I know. If I had 9 foot ceilings or even 8.5 this wouldn't even be an issue, but it's so close with 8 foot that even .5 inches makes the difference. I had to modify my mount twice, once just to get it to work - the HD72 has 4 mount points in a very small rectangle which is just stupid and hard to adjust with most "universal" mount types, and I had to work around the adjustable feet on mine (by removing them) to get another inch back towards the top. That's how darn close it is.
.

Not sure what kinda mount you have, but usually one of the benefits of the more expensive higher grade mounts is the ease and dexterity in adjustments.

Fleaman

Thanks for the response Ix. I have plenty of room to work with regarding throw distance....20ft......but I guess it may be borderline for me considering you have a 100". I was planning to get the PERFECTMOUNT but it will put the middle of the lens about 5-6inches from the ceiling which would take me out of the game.

Well at least this makes my decision easy......Infocus IN76, unless anyone knows of upcoming 720 pj's with a minimal offset (excluding Benq PE700).

Ix

What are the dimensions of the rectangle where the mount points are on the projector?


Thanks,

Henry

Ix

What are the dimensions of the rectangle where the mount points are on the projector?


Thanks,

Henry


Page 42 of the manual - http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_manual_3167.pdf

Will give you the exact dimensions. Trust me, it's small.

Thanks. 3" x 5" if my metric to inch conversion is correct. That is very small!!

Ask for Ross at Projectorpeople and make sure you told him Geoff recommended you:) I don't get anything for it but I like to keep good relations with sales people.

If you can't reach Ross I believe myapplebuddy worked with a good rep at PP as well.
My guy's name at ProjectorPeople was Mike Norton. He was exceptional too. If you order from him, tell him Steve recommended you. Well, one thing's for sure...even the nicest looking picture and a great Super Bowl party can't soften the blow when your team loses. :( I think I'll be taking Monday off. This HD72 really is great though. All my friends were amazed at the picture quality even with a good deal of ambient light in the room for much of the game. We're currently playing XBOX 360 using "bright" mode and it looks outstanding. Unfortunately I can't find my digital camera right now so I can't post any screen shots.

Thanks. 3" x 5" if my metric to inch conversion is correct. That is very small!!
Without taking it down and removing the mount I would say that those numbers are right. I used the Peerless Spyder Universal Mount and was only able to use 3 of the 4 mounting holes. It's still really stable though and I really like the mount, especially because I got it in white so it matches the projector.

In case anyone's interested in brightness, I broke out my light meter and took some readings. I measured with the lamp at both low and high, with BrilliantColor set to 0, 3, and 10. Here's what I got. My screen is 106" with 1.1 gain. My projector is 14' from the screen. I used a test pattern with peak white from DVE. I took the readings from my preferred seat, which is 13' from the screen. I don't know how accurate my light meter is, so these could be slightly off.

Lamp Bright Mode Off:
BC 0: 14fL
BC 3: 14.25fL
BC 10: 15.25fL

Lamp Bright Mode On:
BC 0: 14.5fL
BC 3 15fL
BC 10: 15.75fL

I tried out BC set to 3 today, and I liked it too, so I think I'm gonna stick with that. Thanks for the advice.

Actually the mount in the picture is the one you see (most of the time). They switched to some cheap a$$ mount and it's way ugly compared to the one they used to sell. For a time they were still showing the older (nicer) mount in the add and selling the other one. This obviously pissed a lot of people off. Some of the adds show two pictures, one of each mount. Very confusing....

the NICER mount you meant should be the one which is like the premier mount?
like this, linked link (http://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StaplesProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&productId=103144&cmArea=SEARCH)

In case anyone's interested in brightness, I broke out my light meter and took some readings. I measured with the lamp at both low and high, with BrilliantColor set to 0, 3, and 10. Here's what I got. My screen is 106" with 1.1 gain. My projector is 14' from the screen. I used a test pattern with peak white from DVE. I took the readings from my preferred seat, which is 13' from the screen. I don't know how accurate my light meter is, so these could be slightly off.

Mumbles3k, can you post some of your mounting numbers -- I am also thinking of getting 106 screen and mount PJ around 14' from the screen -- how big is your offset ?

Thanks, Davie.

myapplebuddy

Does the Peerless mount you are using have a way to vary the distance from the ceiling?

Thanks,

Henry

THanks for the reviews so far, I'm glad the new HD72 owners love the image so far.

Here are some tips I hope you may find it useful:

1. Brilliant Color
HD72 offers 0-10 10-step incremental enhancement. We also found it the best at 3, so we set the Cinema mode to be default to 3. (each mode has a different enhancement) Color is a very subjective thing, some may find it unnecessary to set any BC enhance, some may like it at 5 or even 10. This very flexible, user-definable 10-step BC enhance is currently a unique design of HD72.

2. Image mode
HD72 comes default at four image modes, each comes with different enhancement setting. Cinema is for movie watching, Bright mode is for Gaming with ambient lights on, TV is for cables/HDTV, and sRGB is for PC or gamma 2.2 fans. In each mode, one can change or modify the settings, HD72 will remember it. So, in fact, you have up to FOUR user memories for image preferences.

3. True Vivid
The other unique feature of HD72 is "True Vivid" default at 0, but can be enhanced in 3-steps. You might want to try 1 to make the image even more 3-dimensional, better contrast (as if its contrast is not enough - ;) ). You may leave it at 0 if you prefer "original flavor".

4. DVD connections
Even though HD72 comes with very decent 3-2 pull down de-interlacing, if you have a good DVD player that can output 720p DVI/HDMI, I would suggest to use the 720p digital output to HD72, HD72 will display it in 1-to-1 pixel mapping to render the best sharpness. However, if you are not sure about the DVD player's internal de-interlacer, you can simply connect 480i, the image will be very good, properly-deinterlaced, then upscaled to 720p. If you have old LD player or video source with only composite output, HD72 has 3D comb filter that will render a very nice composite video input as well.

5. Dual digital input
HD72 comes with two digital inputs that can connect to two digital video sources.

6. 16x9 lens
HD72 has a LBX mode for 16x9 lens application. It scales a 2.35:1 aspect ratio movie in 16x9 enhanced DVD to fill the HD72 1280x720 pixels, and use the 16x9 lens to stretch it to 2.35:1 using full, vertical 720p pixels.

7. Black performance ("how black can black be?")
Some asked how does the black compare to H78DC3. Well, just like AE900 and HD72 are both excellent machine in their own turf when viewing alone, but put them side by side, people can tell the HD72 picture is even better. It's the same thing between HD72 and H78DC3. H78DC3 uses 7-segment with dark green segment for 10-bit green processing, there is no or minimal dithering at dark levels, so the black is very solid and deep. HD72 black for most people, or when compared to many LCD projectors, are already deep enough, viewing alone, one may wonder how much blacker can it be? But if you put them side by side, DC3 still wins. But for what price? Cost/performance is always a tough choice for end users. Hey, we have to reserve some painful choices for you guys, right? :p

Here is a basic procedure for fine tuning:
1. First, play around the four image modes, to select one that is to your liking for the purpose (be it movie, or gamine), each image mode has a different degamma curve for its purpose.
2. Set the contrast/brightness to reveal the 100 IRE/99 IRE and 0/1 IRE, this is to show the widest picture range.
3. Set color/tint/sharpness if you see necessary. (I think DVI/HDMI, there is no color/tint)
4. Set Brilliant color and True Vivid to your preferred value. (3, 1 is my personal preference for most viewing)
5. Put up a grey ramp image, tune the RGB gain/bias to get the best looking grey to your eyes.

One may need to go back and forth from 1 to 5 to get the best result.

Enjoy your HD72. :)

Well, I am afraid I am going to call it:

The HD72 will not work ceiling mounted in rooms with an 8 foot (or lower, of course) ceiling. To ceiling mount this projector you need 9 feet or more in order to work with its fixed offset. This of course is my opinion only - see below for elaboration.

Edit: This is assuming a screen of 92 inches diagonal or larger (16x9) - I use 100 myself. Smaller screens would let you move the projector forward more and raise the image up the wall. Edit 2: After more fiddling and leveling (damn ceilings) I got a 100' diagonal 16x9 image at 12.4 feet back to go to about 26.25 inches up from the bottom of the floor. That is too low for me, but may not be too low for you, so - your mileage may vary.

The only way I could get this projector to work in a low ceiling environment is if I set it up on the floor. And I'm hardly exaggerating there either - about 12-14 inches off the floor worked for me. Or in my case, didn't work since I have no place to permanently put the projector in my room in that configuration.

The offset calculations arrived at here appear to have been exactly correct, between 32-33 and 37% depending on the zoom level.

I arrived at this conclusion after literally spending the weekend working on this projector and various mounting options. At first, I thought I had clear sailing and that the offset wasn't nearly as bad as thought, but after time I realized that the problem was I didn't have the HD72 level and was suffering from keystoning. When level, the true offset is shown, and it projects an image that is just way too low. This happens with the lowest profile mount I could get, a Chief RPA that I modified to only add 2.2 inches. This happens with no mount at all, holding flush and level to the ceiling (I wish I had taken pictures of the Rube Goldberg contraption I built out of a ladder and boxes to get it that way). Let me be clear: Even with no mount at all the offset is still too much for an 8 foot ceiling. I tried everything that could be tried; I was the MacGuyver of projector mounting this weekend, but there's no beating simple math and that darn fixed offset.

I know this will come as sad news to many and believe me, it was sad news for me. That's not to say it won't work at all in low ceiling rooms - if you can some how floor mount or low (LOW) table mount it, and don't mind a projector down by your feet, it would work. If digital keystone correction doesn't bother you then you could probably do what I did, get the thing as close to the ceiling as possible then tilt it up and keystone correct, but now you are messing with the image quality. If you can't tell a difference then (and I don't mean this in a snobby way so don't take it wrong) you probably shouldn't be shelling out the cash for this projector in the first place as a cheaper solution such as the 4805 or H31 would work just as well for you. Or, as some have suggested, you could shim out the top of a (fixed) screen, although the tilt would be pretty noticeable and depending on how you have your screen mounted, a serious PITA to accomplish.

It doesn't work for me and so, armed with the knowledge that in my situation I truly will get what I pay for, I am returning the HD72 and purchasing a H78DC3. My wallet will not thank me, my credit card company will, and over all I will (probably) get an even better image and (certainly) have an easier time mounting it, because an optical vertical lens shift will work wonders for me.

As I am going to do an "advanced replacement" with ProjectorPeople, which is a fancy way of saying I will be buying the HD78DC3 now and sending the HD72 for credit later, I will have a unique opportunity for you all - a AE900u, an HD72 (temporarily mounted on my floor) and a H78DC3 all in the same room at the same time. I've played with the H78DC3 before so I should be able to get it calibrated fairly well, and I can show you all a consumer-level "shootout" between the 3.

So to sum it up:

Things I like about the HD72 -

Great picture; best I have seen in the under 2k market, even though I haven't seen a Z4 I can't imagine LCD beating this.

Price!

Constant Height options; the AE900u requires a scaler to work with CH.

Small, light, nice pearl white case.

Things I don't like -

Offset sucks for low ceilings just as we all feared. What was Optoma thinking. People with high ceilings can always drop lower, that is what extensions are for. People with low ceilings can't go up:). I supposed if you have a really high ceiling and you don't want to use a long extension than this is your dream projector.

The remote; it's weak.

The tiny, tiny rectangle that the mount points make. It's a real joy getting it to work with a universal mount let me assure you in my most sarcastic manner possible.

The fact that the zoom range is low (1.2), throws the projector out of focus as it zooms (maybe it is just me but the AE900u doesn't do this), and changes the offset percentage as well. I'm assuming these are all things that come with a fixed offset projector. All of these factors make adjusting this projector hard. I've probably been badly spoiled by the AE900u here, which is the easiest projector to mount ever thanks to a 2.0 zoom range and horizontal+vertical optical lens shift.

So I am off to buy the H78DC3 along with a horizontal adjustment adapter for the chief mount, which combined with the vertical lens shift should make that projector easier for me to set up. I will keep you all posted and hopefully get some screenshots of all 3 projectors up before I send the other two back.

Ix,

Thanks for your hard work and excellent report. I wish it had turned out better. I was really interested in this projector--thanks for sparing many of us from making a mistake. Looking forward to your shootout report!

sorry you had so many problems.......I am still sold I think this will be optimal for me....

Eclipse98,

The center of the lens is about 14" higher than the top of the screen. the vertical image shift is set to -28. I would assume that this number refers to lines of resolution, but that doesn't really make sense since anything past -24 should be cropping the picture. So I don't know what's up with that. As far as keystoning is concerned, I'm sure there is some, but I can't see it at all, even with DVE test patterns on the screen.

The screen itself is about 35.5" from the ceiling. I tried raising it a couple inches in order to accomodate 1.33:1 movies at 1024x768, but I couldn't get the vertical image shift to go high enough for 1280x720.

Sorry to hear that the offset didn't work for you Ix. I had been contemplating getting the HD72 but I have 7.5 ft ceilings so I was waiting to see how your situation turned out. Looks like I will have to get the AE900 as I don't think I can wait for the IN76 for another 1 1/2 months.

Well, I am afraid I am going to call it:

The HD72 will not work ceiling mounted in rooms with an 8 foot (or lower, of course) ceiling. To ceiling mount this projector you need 9 feet or more in order to work with its fixed offset.



You need to qualify that statement with "depending on your desired screen size".

I have a 7'3" ceiling and I've had no problems with extreme offset projectors (H30 and H31). My meager screen is 84" diagonal, 41" high. That means at worst case (37%), I have a 15" offset. Assuming the projector is flush mount (lens 4" from celing), that means my screen top is at 19". Bottom is at 27" from the floor. This puts eye level (42" standard) at 36% of the screen height from the bottom - slightly higher than the usual 33%, but definately acceptable.

Now, if I wanted to get a bigger screen, I'd be in deep doodoo.

-Mike

So, the offset actually changes within the zoom range. That is bizzare. I've never seen this before in a projector. Ususally, you set the top or bottom of the image, and then zoom to fill your screen, with the top or bottom remaining fixed.

So, the offset actually changes within the zoom range. That is bizzare. I've never seen this before in a projector. Ususally, you set the top or bottom of the image, and then zoom to fill your screen, with the top or bottom remaining fixed.

The H31 does this too. If I zoom out from max, the image top raises, and vise-versa. I don't remember the exact amount, but it's around 2" or so.

-Mike

You need to qualify that statement with "depending on your desired screen size".

I have a 7'3" ceiling and I've had no problems with extreme offset projectors (H30 and H31). My meager screen is 84" diagonal, 41" high. That means at worst case (37%), I have a 15" offset. Assuming the projector is flush mount (lens 4" from celing), that means my screen top is at 19". Bottom is at 27" from the floor. This puts eye level (42" standard) at 36% of the screen height from the bottom - slightly higher than the usual 33%, but definately acceptable.

Now, if I wanted to get a bigger screen, I'd be in deep doodoo.

-Mike

This is very true and something I thought of after I posted. It didn't occur to me at first because for my setup, I wouldn't even consider a screen smaller than 100 inches diagonal. If you are willing to live with smaller screen (and hey, an 84 inch diagonal rear projection TV would cost many times that of this projector and a screen) then you can get it to work. Anything 92 inches and up, though, and I think you would still be SOL with this projector.

You need to qualify that statement with "depending on your desired screen size".

I have a 7'3" ceiling and I've had no problems with extreme offset projectors (H30 and H31). My meager screen is 84" diagonal, 41" high. That means at worst case (37%), I have a 15" offset. Assuming the projector is flush mount (lens 4" from celing), that means my screen top is at 19". Bottom is at 27" from the floor. This puts eye level (42" standard) at 36% of the screen height from the bottom - slightly higher than the usual 33%, but definately acceptable.

Now, if I wanted to get a bigger screen, I'd be in deep doodoo.

-Mike

Mike, what kind of mount are you using in order to get the projector so close to the ceiling?

Mike, what kind of mount are you using in order to get the projector so close to the ceiling?


I don't know about his mount but I know from experience that the Chief RPA series will do it if you remove the adjustable feet on the brackets.

Can anyone confirm that the offset on the Mitsubishi HC3000u is less extreme than the HD72? Published info suggests it is, but I don't trust manufacturer data on this anymore. These two PJ's seem to be very similar in features and PQ -- the Mits lacking only the variable BC -- and MSRP of the Mits just dropped to $2499 (to be competitive with the HD72, presumably)

This is very true and something I thought of after I posted. It didn't occur to me at first because for my setup, I wouldn't even consider a screen smaller than 100 inches diagonal. If you are willing to live with smaller screen (and hey, an 84 inch diagonal rear projection TV would cost many times that of this projector and a screen) then you can get it to work. Anything 92 inches and up, though, and I think you would still be SOL with this projector.

Rechecking my numbers for an 84" screen makes me think this is going to be awfully close for comfort however. I, like many, may have to wait it out for the Infocus IN76 after all.

Mike, what kind of mount are you using in order to get the projector so close to the ceiling?

I'm using the ever popular and cheap Panavise mount. Very popular with the H30/H31 crowd because it uses the single 20mm hole on those projectors rather than the 3 smaller ones.. I don't know if the HD72 still retains the 20mm center hole however.

I was checking into the Mitsu HC3000 as well and found that it has about the same offset as the HD 72.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. I don't have that much video experience, but I come from the film world where we have to make the equipment we're given fit in the room that we're given, and things like keystoning are unavoidable. If I could get a 35mm projector to line up with a screen and have as little keystoning as I have in my living room right now, I would rejoice. I'm not sure how Ix' setup differs from mine in terms of throw or zoom, but my projector is slightly less than 8 feet off of the ground, and my screen is slightly bigger, and I'm personally satisfied.

There are so many more variables which are more annoying than the keystoning issue, but since we can't control them, we live with them. When I was watching the Super Bowl, I didn't notice any keystoning at all. But the compression artifacts were driving me up the wall. I've watched 3 movies all the way through on this thing, and what bothered me more than anything else was edge enhancement. But there's nothing which I could do about it, so I let it go.

The pros of this projector far outweigh the cons. If I had to point out it's biggest fault, it would be that the contrast isn't high enough. But I know that this is what you get for the price, and I'm not complaining. To me, the keystoning is a minor issue, and wouldn't be a deal breaker even if it was worse than it actually is.

Also, just to clarify, when I switch back and forth between 0 and 1 on the keystone correction setting, I really don't know which one looks better, because the proper setting is probably somewhere in between. And everything is level to the ground (except for my house, which is slanted to left, making everything else look slanted to the right).

I guess my point to all of this is that for many people, the HD72 will be fine for 8ft ceilings. It just depends on how much you can tolerate imperfection.

So, the offset actually changes within the zoom range. That is bizzare. I've never seen this before in a projector. Ususally, you set the top or bottom of the image, and then zoom to fill your screen, with the top or bottom remaining fixed.

Why is that bizzare?

When you use the zoom lense you are making the image smaller or larger while keeping the projector stationary. Since the offset is related to the height of the projected image it makes sense that when you make the image larger it gets lower and when you make the image smaller it gets higher.

I would imagine that the offset would be the same if you projected a 45 inch tall image from 10.6' or a 45" tall image from 12.7 feet. You are actually moving the projector and zoom in that case but keeping the same image height.

I'm using the ever popular and cheap Panavise mount. Very popular with the H30/H31 crowd because it uses the single 20mm hole on those projectors rather than the 3 smaller ones.. I don't know if the HD72 still retains the 20mm center hole however.


It does, for what it's worth. I didn't know you could use that for mounting, when I stuck a screw in there to test and picked the PJ up with it the plastic surrounding it bowed out in an alarming fashion, but maybe it works.

I dont htink there should be any comparison between the Mitsu HC3000, Sanyo Z4, AE900, and IN76 etc.. The H78DC3 and H79 are better, but those other ones are not. Not the BenQ ones either (8720 is nice). I dont believe htere is anything to debate about this projector (ohter htan the offest that makes it difficult) This PJ is amazing and atan AMAZING price... I do'nt see any reason to go any way othe rthan the Optoma HD72 IF you can mount it properly!

Why is that bizzare?

Because every projector that I am familiar with holds either the top of the image (ceiling mount), or the bottom of the image (table mount) as the reference point throughout the zoom range. IOW, once you've mounted the projector, the reference point doesn't change. Only the other 3 sides of the image change with the zoom. That's why most manufacturers refer to their offset as being "fixed." Sounds like Optoma has several projectors with a variable offset.

I can see where mounting the HD72 would be a royal PITA, let alone trying to figure out whether it will work in a tight situation.

It does, for what it's worth. I didn't know you could use that for mounting, when I stuck a screw in there to test and picked the PJ up with it the plastic surrounding it bowed out in an alarming fashion, but maybe it works.

That doesn't sound good at all. The H30/H31 was very small and light so it wasn't an issue. Guess that's not the case with the HD72.

Because every projector that I am familiar with holds either the top of the image (ceiling mount), or the bottom of the image (table mount) as the reference point throughout the zoom range. IOW, once you've mounted the projector, the reference point doesn't change. Only the other 3 sides of the image change with the zoom. That's why most manufacturers refer to their offset as being "fixed." Sounds like Optoma has several projectors with a variable offset.

I can see where mounting the HD72 would be a royal PITA, let alone trying to figure out whether it will work in a tight situation.

I think the Infocus PJ's must have a variable offset with zoom since they publish the offset formula as a percentage of image height.

As for zooming out 3 sides of the image (while keeping the top or bottom side constant), that's strange and interesting to me at the same time (I've only played with a few PJ's and own a H31). What I can't grasp with this idea is that even if you could zoom out and keep the top image at a constant point with the PJ's zoom ring, what happens when you physically move the PJ backwards or forwards? Obviously the image would grow or shrink on all 4 sides, right?

??

Fleaman

So I am off to buy the H78DC3 along with a horizontal adjustment adapter for the chief mount, which combined with the vertical lens shift should make that projector easier for me to set up. I will keep you all posted and hopefully get some screenshots of all 3 projectors up before I send the other two back.

How about throwing in a 4805 and maybe a z4 and get a little shootout going? :)

The pros of this projector far outweigh the cons. If I had to point out it's biggest fault, it would be that the contrast isn't high enough.
Just curious - are you saying that the contrast/black level is not as good as your previous projector the 4805, or are you saying that neither one of the projectors delivers the contrast you're looking for.

As I am going to do an "advanced replacement" with ProjectorPeople, which is a fancy way of saying I will be buying the HD78DC3 now and sending the HD72 for credit later, I will have a unique opportunity for you all - a AE900u, an HD72 (temporarily mounted on my floor) and a H78DC3 all in the same room at the same time. I've played with the H78DC3 before so I should be able to get it calibrated fairly well, and I can show you all a consumer-level "shootout" between the 3.

.

Ix, I'm really sorry it didn't work out for you. I feared that maybe the PJ wasn't squared and it was making the offset #'s look better to you. Some of the others here mentioned keystoning. I know I'm a.nal about using it, but admit that when playing with keystoning on my H31, I couldn't accurately tell the difference. Luckily I don't need it and probably like you, I wouldn't want a PJ that has to use it, but ya never know....did you try some keystoning?

OTOH, you're a real ambassador to this forum for going out of your way to do a side by side comparison on a PJ you can't keep. While sad for your misfortunes, I'm jumping excited about your next comparison with the H78DC3!

You've probably read earlier that I kept asking/wondering about how the H78DC3 would compare, and now you will be comparing side-by-side, 1st hand! I guess you'll see if TzungILin's claim that the H78DC3 has better deeper blacks with little or NO dithering compared to the HD72 rings true for you. This is the area of the pic quality that is most interesting (ok, important) to me. Smooth and deep shadow details....really can't wait for your assessment. And don't be afraid to walk up to 1x screen width and closer to see who wins the dithering war.

Boy I'm excited....and sad for you....but with excitement!

Thanks again Ix :)

Fleaman

The theorizing and guesswork is over everyone; trust me on this. Unless you like your screen less than two feet off the floor - and trust me, you won't, we have low seats and a recliner and it was still too low - the only way you are going to get this projector to work in a low ceiling environment is if you set it up on the floor.

Ix, thanks for your hard work and sorry to hear it did not work out for you -- I am sure you'll enjoy your new H78. How soon do you expect to have that delivered ? Can't wait to get your size by side comparison report !

Having said that, it would help everybody a lot if you can post some numbers you finally ended up with after your mounting adventure. BTW, did you try MacGyver chewing Gum trick ? I think that what Optoma creators had in mind when designing this PJ :rolleyes:

Based on my calculations it should work pretty well for 8" ceiling. Here it goes:

Screen height 49".
Smallest achievable offset (32%) = 15.6".
Distance from center of the lens to the ceiling (2 inches low profile mount + 2 inches from bottom of PJ to center of lens) = 4".
Top of the image form ceiling (15.6" offset + 4" mounting) = 19.6".
Bottom of the image from floor: 96" (8 feet) - 49" (screen height) - 19.6" (top offset) = 27.4"

Am I missing something here ? That is way over 2 feet you were looking for :) .

Something like this will definitely work for me. Based on my install I will end up having screen (106") 22 inches from the floor and this is perfect location based on 38" recliners.

Unless something is messed up with my calcs I think that 8" ceiling is still an option for larger than 100" screen !

Thanks, Davie.

I did try keystoning and on this projector I can tell when it is in use. Nowhere was it more apparent than during the Superbowl - I noticed far more motion artifacts with it than without. I wasn't even looking, it was my brother in law who asked what the distortion was during fast pans of the screen. There was still artifacting with it off but it's really noticeable when digital keystoning issued. Maybe I can get some pics of it tomorrow before I ship it back. I'm guessing that by digitally correcting the image the pixel mapping is thrown off, thus causing the increase in artifacts? I'm just guessing here.

The H78DC3 has a 5x 8 segment wheel instead of the HD72's 4x 7 segment which I am hoping will help with artifacting.

Eclipse98,

The center of the lens is about 14" higher than the top of the screen. the vertical image shift is set to -28. I would assume that this number refers to lines of resolution, but that doesn't really make sense since anything past -24 should be cropping the picture. So I don't know what's up with that. As far as keystoning is concerned, I'm sure there is some, but I can't see it at all, even with DVE test patterns on the screen.

The screen itself is about 35.5" from the ceiling. I tried raising it a couple inches in order to accomodate 1.33:1 movies at 1024x768, but I couldn't get the vertical image shift to go high enough for 1280x720.

Thanks Mumbles3k,

With lowest offset (32%) your top of the screen should be 16.64" below center of lens so it appears that your PJ is not perfectly level. Just curious why did you mount this way -- it looks like you have some height to work with: 35.5 - 14 = 21.5" is the distance from center of the lense to ceiling. Wouldn't it be better to raise PJ a couple of inches and level it to avoid keystoning.

Unless there is some obstacle we don't know of -- like in my HT room I have 8.5" ceiling but there is this 12" darn beam right in the middle of the room :mad:

Thanks, Davie.

what bothered me more than anything else was edge enhancement. But there's nothing which I could do about it, so I let it go.

Edge enhancement From the DVDs or from the projector?

I looked for reference in this thread to the white (clear) segment and have not found it. It seems like a strange choice, is it always engaged? And if not, doesn't an unused clear segment decrease contrast?

myapplebuddy

Does the Peerless mount you are using have a way to vary the distance from the ceiling?
Yes. Depending on what type of ceiling you have (slanted or flat), you get a ceiling plate. Then you can order extension tubes in various lengths from Peerless or any website that carries their stuff. I got mine from racksandstands.com. The extension tubes are simply 1 1/2" galvanized pipe that you can pick up at any Home Depot or Lowes and they'll cut it to whatever length you want and thread the ends too. It's much cheaper than ordering the "official" extension tubes from Peerless. The nice thing is if you get the length wrong, which I did 3 times, you can go back to the hardware store and get a different length cut for you. The pipe screws into the ceiling plate on one end, and into the projector mount on the other end. It's pretty simple.

I looked for reference in this thread to the white (clear) segment and have not found it. It seems like a strange choice, is it always engaged? And if not, doesn't an unused clear segment decrease contrast?
The reason for the white segment is the Brilliant Color technology used in the HD72. It is a newer technology that adds punch to the image for brightness and color saturation. As far as I know you can't disengage a color wheel segment, but with Brilliant Color turned off I don't know how it's used.

Thanks Mumbles3k,

With lowest offset (32%) your top of the screen should be 16.64" below center of lens so it appears that your PJ is not perfectly level. Just curious why did you mount this way -- it looks like you have some height to work with: 35.5 - 14 = 21.5" is the distance from center of the lense to ceiling. Wouldn't it be better to raise PJ a couple of inches and level it to avoid keystoning.

Unless there is some obstacle we don't know of -- like in my HT room I have 8.5" ceiling but there is this 12" darn beam right in the middle of the room :mad:

Thanks, Davie.


You will probably be ok with the beam, believe it or not. Mine completely missed a ceiling light I have in the middle of the celing that is about 5 inches down; that's how sharp an angle the offset its.

I looked for reference in this thread to the white (clear) segment and have not found it. It seems like a strange choice, is it always engaged? And if not, doesn't an unused clear segment decrease contrast?

Is explained pretty well in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=639902

----about 1/2 down the page. But the thread is only 1 page long anyway....

Fleaman

You will probably be ok with the beam, believe it or not. Mine completely missed a ceiling light I have in the middle of the celing that is about 5 inches down; that's how sharp an angle the offset its.

I think I am going to be OK too, but this beam is going to make my mount very similar to yours in terms of projector height from the ceiling -- PJ is going to be mounted 14' from the screen, beam is 12' from the screen (right in the middle of 24' room). Since PJ is going to be 2' from the beam, I can raise PJ so center of the lense is 2" above the beam bottom (taking advantage of the large offset approx 1" offset per 1' throw distance). So the bottom of the lense is going to be on the same level as beam bottom and top of the lens is going to be 4" above beam bottom. Which puts top of the lens exactly 7'10" (bottom of the beam is 7'6") and this is exactly were you had your PJ mounted (2" below 8' ceiling). Since I have 8'6" ceiling I have extra 8" for PJ mount.

But I am going to use 106" screen (52" high) and per my calculations it should work just fine -- screen should be about 24" above the floor and it should be fine for my 38" recliners. I am even thinking going to 110" -- this way bottom of the screen will be 22" above the floor, which I still think is acceptable.

I am thinking of just getting the PJ and play with mount options and only then buy as screen.

Sorry to bore you all with my calculations, but I thought it might be useful to so many of us who are struggling with it right now. There appears to be some useful numbers from all these calcs -- here it goes (assuming you mount with smallest possible offset 32%):

If you plan on 106" screen, bottom of your screen is going to be 70" (5"10') below to top of the lens. Subtruct this number from your ceiling height (e.g. 86" - 70" for 8 foot ceiling) and you'll come up with the distance (26") you have to split between the 'distance from the top of the lense to the ceiling' and 'distance from bottom of the screen to the floor'. In this case if you want bottom of the screen to be 24" from the floor you'll have to use 2" mount.

HTH, Davie.

I think the Infocus PJ's must have a variable offset with zoom since they publish the offset formula as a percentage of image height.

As for zooming out 3 sides of the image (while keeping the top or bottom side constant), that's strange and interesting to me at the same time (I've only played with a few PJ's and own a H31). What I can't grasp with this idea is that even if you could zoom out and keep the top image at a constant point with the PJ's zoom ring, what happens when you physically move the PJ backwards or forwards? Obviously the image would grow or shrink on all 4 sides, right?

??

Fleaman

Actually, all of the fixed offset projectors that I am familiar with (I'm not familiar with Optoma) state offset relative to either height or width, yet the reference does not change over the zoom range. With those projectors, once you calculate the offset based on the manufacturer's height or width formula, you can then mount the projector within its throw range for a given screen, provided you account for that fixed offset value. That's just 2 variables, screen size and throw distance. Zooming the image will then fill the screen on just 3 sides from the reference point. Zooming too much simply overshoots the screen on those 3 sides. It still does not change the fixed top or bottom. Zooming to little simply doesn't fill the screen, but the top/bottom don't move. Different screen sizes dictate the offset/throw range, but that offset remains fixed throughout the zoom range. It looks like the HD72 adds a third variable to consider, and that is the zoom position.

Just FYI for those of you thinking about the Mitsubishi HC3000...

I am told that Mits OEM's the HC3000 from Optoma.

Ix...

You might want to spend some time in the H78dc3 thread... they seem to have an inordinate amount of bulb issues going on... perhaps not as bad as the BenQ 7700, but still a concern.

When you are doing your next comparison would you please report on the light output from the H78 as it compares to the HD72 and AE900? I am wanting to light up a larger screen (120+) and am concerned about the light output. I do not recall you mentioning this during your HD72/AE900 comparison.

Fleaman....

Yes, my BenQ 8700+ also leaves the top of the image fixed and zooms the other three sides... I found this out by accident as on SDTV I have a little bit of "noise" (which I am told is the audio track in the transmission) visible at the top of the screen... so I thought I would cleverly just increase the zoom a bit so this would be on the black portion of the screen frame and rendered invisible... but no grasshopper the top stayed exactly fixed and the other three sides moved... DOH!

TzungLIn...........

Thank you for your input on these projectors.....

Did I understand you correctly that one could display 2.35 material filling the 16x9 frame (no black bars) and still keep the proportions correct (no fat or skinny people) "without" an additional anamorphic lens?... if so that is a seriously cool WOW!

I left you a note in the HD81 thread, but will mention it here just in case you get back here first...... Would you please consider starting a thread on the HD7300? I am very interested in more information on this projector and it's scaler. Is it an HD72 with a scaler... is it based on the H79 with the addition of the scaler... what DMD is it using... what about lens shift (becoming more of an issue)... lumen output... what kind of magic we can get from the scaler.... you know all the "good stuff!"

Thank you,

Just FYI for those of you thinking about the Mitsubishi HC3000...

I am told that Mits OEM's the HC3000 from Optoma.

If so, it has to be from another one of their PJs, not the HD72 however. The HC3000 is based on the Mits HC900u - but both could very well be OEM'd from Optoma as you said.

Jeff....... I don't have any info as to what projector the HC3000 is based on, just that it is an OEM product from Optoma... just like Runco OEM's a couple from BenQ... etc.

Yes. Depending on what type of ceiling you have (slanted or flat), you get a ceiling plate. Then you can order extension tubes in various lengths from Peerless or any website that carries their stuff. I got mine from racksandstands.com. The extension tubes are simply 1 1/2" galvanized pipe that you can pick up at any Home Depot or Lowes and they'll cut it to whatever length you want and thread the ends too. It's much cheaper than ordering the "official" extension tubes from Peerless. The nice thing is if you get the length wrong, which I did 3 times, you can go back to the hardware store and get a different length cut for you. The pipe screws into the ceiling plate on one end, and into the projector mount on the other end. It's pretty simple.

Thank you for your explanation. I am ordering the Peerless Universal for use with my NEC HT 510 and wanted to make sure it would work with the Optoma 72 since I am considering upgrading sometime later this year.

Hi Steve - I think you're right about the OEM. Your post just threw me for a loop when I first read it because I thought you were saying the Mits was OEM'd from the HD72. Looks like you weren't saying that at all however. :)

Well, I am afraid I am going to call it:

The HD72 will not work ceiling mounted in rooms with an 8 foot (or lower, of course) ceiling. To ceiling mount this projector you need 9 feet or more in order to work with its fixed offset. Edit: This is assuming a screen of 92 inches diagonal or larger (16x9) - I use 100 myself. Smaller screens would let you move the projector forward more and raise the image up the wall.



Your numbers are off somewhere, either your ceiling isn't truly 96" or your projector isn't truly level, etc. You said you did the math but it doesn't appear so. At either 32% OR 37% offset the screen would be higher than 24". simple math:

49 (100" screen height)*.32= 15.68 + 2.5" for the mount+2" for lense= 20.18"+49"=69.18" , 96-69.18= 26.82" off the floor

49*.37=18.13+2.5+2=22.63+49=71.63=24.37" off the floor!

Flush mount the projector like you said you did and the screen is even higher! So something is wrong. Either way I'm excited that you plan on comparing it to the H78 and thank you like others for the review and helpfulness with the HD72.

Your numbers are off somewhere, either your ceiling isn't truly 96" or your projector isn't truly level, etc. You said you did the math but it doesn't appear so. At either 32% OR 37% offset the screen would be higher than 24". simple math:

49 (100" screen height)*.32= 15.68 + 2.5" for the mount= 18.18"+49"=67.18" , 96-67.18= 28.82" off the floor

49*.37=18.13+2.5=20.63+49=69.63=26.37" off the floor!

Flush mount the projector like you said you did and the screen is even higher! So something is wrong. Either way I'm excited that you plan on comparing it to the H78 and thank you like others for the review and helpfulness with the HD72.

Mikenificent1, I came up with same numbers, but you left out 2 inches to the center of the lens from the mount. So for 100" screen it will be 27" off the floor.

I think that perhaps PJ was not level.

Davie.

I finally hooked up HD72 Saturday night late...forgive me because we just moved and I only got to squeeze time in when the family was asleep (too many boxes!...and we still don't have internet access).

I echo the others sentiments;

Good: Blacks (even without AI), BC on 3, bright image (with ambient light), almost no dithering, no SDE at 1.5Xwidth (I lose it at about 1.3), no RBE (but I wasnt susceptible to it with X1), low fan setting not noticable, very colorful, digital vertical image adjustment, auto input sensing (turn off one and it automatically switches to other...not sure how many projectors do this), remote layout very good...I like instand brightness/contrast/vertical shift/and video input buttons (backlit also)

Bad: AI (does cycle fan off/on...and the image blinks like an Auto iris of the LCDs), remote IR power, offset (but we all knew about this), fan in AI mode is unbearable (it is likely the same as high altitude mode)

I would like to comment about the offset. I have a 9' ceiling, so mounting is not a problem. But, in the essence of time...I mounted the projector with a slight tilt in a hurry to be ready for the Superbowl (I didn't get the extension length quite right). With a 4" offset for extreme zoom (113" diagonal) at 13', we get approximately a 7% offset. It only took one click of keystone adjustment to correct the image. We watched movies all day Sunday and the Superbowl and Grey's Anatomy without any visible degredation of the image. I will eventually correct it, but I take offense to the comment that people shouldn't have this projector if they do not notice any video alteration with keystone correction. I say a slight adustment with keystone correction would not be any worse than the dithering artifacts, or vertical banding that the LCDs have, or the cable/sat companies extreme compression artifacts. I will not live with the vertical keystone forever...but I assure you that I am not in any hurry to fix it.

To those on the fence...go Optoma over Mitsubishi...Zero Dead Pixel Policy (and price) is all you need to think about. I believe that the added white segement with a little BC really does give more punch to the image. I can't wait to #1: Buy a HD-DVD player, #2 Buy an X-Box 360, #3 play 720p games and 1080p movies to my hearts content.

Does this thing accept 1080p sources at MULTIPLE refresh rates, or is it limited to 24p? Some Blu-Ray players output 1080p at 60 Hz by applying 2:3 pulldown in-player to create the approx. video frame rate of 30 fps and then doubling that to meet most TV specs. Most early HD-DVD players are limited to 1080i (filtered, I'd bet).

Does its scaler weave 1080i to 1080p before down-converting to 720p, or is it like a lot of other displays that bob 1080i to 540p first? I'd heard the Optoma uses a Faroudja chip, but I haven't heard of the Faroudja being able to properly de-interlace 1080i signals.

Supposedly, the Infocus IN76's new 10 bit Pixelworks chip (at least) does weave 1080i, according to the head engineer.

Although no one knows for sure (yet) how well any of these projectors do when hit with a full 1080p signal.

Hello Braindew,

Since you only need one click of keystone to correct the image. I wonder if you have tried the digital image shift to avoid or minimize keystone further?

This projector's real displayable pixel is 1280 x 768, so digital image shift can shift up or down the projected image by 3.3% of its image height without degrading any 16:9 video.

I finally hooked up HD72 Saturday night late...forgive me because we just moved and I only got to squeeze time in when the family was asleep (too many boxes!...and we still don't have internet access).

I echo the others sentiments;

Good: Blacks (even without AI), BC on 3, bright image (with ambient light), almost no dithering, no SDE at 1.5Xwidth (I lose it at about 1.3), no RBE (but I wasnt susceptible to it with X1), low fan setting not noticable, very colorful, digital vertical image adjustment, auto input sensing (turn off one and it automatically switches to other...not sure how many projectors do this), remote layout very good...I like instand brightness/contrast/vertical shift/and video input buttons (backlit also)

Bad: AI (does cycle fan off/on...and the image blinks like an Auto iris of the LCDs), remote IR power, offset (but we all knew about this), fan in AI mode is unbearable (it is likely the same as high altitude mode)

I would like to comment about the offset. I have a 9' ceiling, so mounting is not a problem. But, in the essence of time...I mounted the projector with a slight tilt in a hurry to be ready for the Superbowl (I didn't get the extension length quite right). With a 4" offset for extreme zoom (113" diagonal) at 13', we get approximately a 7% offset. It only took one click of keystone adjustment to correct the image. We watched movies all day Sunday and the Superbowl and Grey's Anatomy without any visible degredation of the image. I will eventually correct it, but I take offense to the comment that people shouldn't have this projector if they do not notice any video alteration with keystone correction. I say a slight adustment with keystone correction would not be any worse than the dithering artifacts, or vertical banding that the LCDs have, or the cable/sat companies extreme compression artifacts. I will not live with the vertical keystone forever...but I assure you that I am not in any hurry to fix it.

To those on the fence...go Optoma over Mitsubishi...Zero Dead Pixel Policy (and price) is all you need to think about. I believe that the added white segement with a little BC really does give more punch to the image. I can't wait to #1: Buy a HD-DVD player, #2 Buy an X-Box 360, #3 play 720p games and 1080p movies to my hearts content.

Mikenificent1, I came up with same numbers, but you left out 2 inches to the center of the lens from the mount. So for 100" screen it will be 27" off the floor.

I think that perhaps PJ was not level.

Davie.

I still have the thing, although it is no longer ceiling mounted. So when I got home from work, JUST FOR YOU GUYS :), I put it up and held it with the level on it. First thing I found out is my ceiling isn't perfectly level either - the drywall is offset or the paint texturing is throwing it off, I can't tell which. It's only off by a very tiny bit, but with this projector that is a lot, so I one-manned it, standing on a ladder, and shot the opening display to the wall, and measured.

I came up with 26.25 inches off the floor, so yes, above the 2 foot mark. But I have to say for me it doesn't make any difference because it's still too low. If nothing else I have a 24 inch hight A/V rack in front that all the in-ceiling cabling runs to and it would be a real pain in the ass to move. That said, with my seats (we're talking a sofa and a non-reclining chair here, nothing too fancy other than it being black) 26.25 or even 27 inches is too low. I was looking for about 32 inches, minimum.


but I take offense to the comment that people shouldn't have this projector if they do not notice any video alteration with keystone correction. I say a slight adustment with keystone correction would not be any worse than the dithering artifacts, or vertical banding that the LCDs have, or the cable/sat companies extreme compression artifacts. I will not live with the vertical keystone forever...but I assure you that I am not in any hurry to fix it.


Even though I specifically asked that my comment not be taken the wrong way you still did:). This is Home Theater, no one should be offended by anything here. I didn't mean it like people who don't mind keystoning are hopeless morons with the visual acuity of hippos. My point is, this is a very expensive (relative, I know, but 2 grand is a lot of money to most of us) projector designed with one real purpose - home theater. In my own case I would either use it to it's fullest or find something cheaper. And since I just moved in to this house, with one room designed (by the builder not me) for home theater, and I don't foresee raising my ceilings any time soon :), I choose not to live with it. It's a personal choice and by no means am I implying you are dumb if you don't agree with it.