Mikenificent1, I came up with same numbers, but you left out 2 inches to the center of the lens from the mount. So for 100" screen it will be 27" off the floor.

I think that perhaps PJ was not level.

Davie.

Doh, I know, I was thinking to myself and realized and hoped no one would notice and I was going to try and edit my post. Too late lol...

TzungLIn...........

Thank you for your input on these projectors.....

Did I understand you correctly that one could display 2.35 material filling the 16x9 frame (no black bars) and still keep the proportions correct (no fat or skinny people) "without" an additional anamorphic lens?... if so that is a seriously cool WOW!

I left you a note in the HD81 thread, but will mention it here just in case you get back here first...... Would you please consider starting a thread on the HD7300? I am very interested in more information on this projector and it's scaler. Is it an HD72 with a scaler... is it based on the H79 with the addition of the scaler... what DMD is it using... what about lens shift (becoming more of an issue)... lumen output... what kind of magic we can get from the scaler.... you know all the "good stuff!"

Thank you,

Dear HiHoStevo,

I think we are talking about differnt things. Yes, HD72 does have a Zoom function (0-4) that default at 0, but when you watch a 2.35:1 movie and you want to get rid of the annoying black bars, you can set Zoom at 4, this will render the movie at close to 1.9:1, not quite 1.78:1 (16x9), but you will lose some of the side information, but figure will be in correct ratio, not fatty or skinny people. This is good for reducing the annoying black bars of 2.35:1, since most directors nowadays shot films with 1.78:1 in mind, so most actions take place in the 1.78:1 portion. Only Panavision, Tod-AO and early 2.35 or wider 2.65:1 filming, we will see two characters talking to each other from either ends of the composition. HD72 allows you to control the zoom, so you can watch a 2.35:1 movie in four different ratios (approximately, I did not measure it closely):
2.35:1 (zoom 0)
2.25:1 (zoom 1)
2.15:1 (zoom 2)
2.05:1 (zoom 3)
1.9:1 (zoom 4)

But the LBX mode that I talked about is for using 16x9 lens, so for a 16x9 enhanced DVD with 2.35:1 aspect ratio, LBX mode will render the 2.35:1 image in the full 16x9 area (meaning, stretch it, so people become skinny and tall), then one would need a 16x9 lens to get a correct 2.35:1 projected images with no black bars.

Yes, I'll start a HD7300 formally, we can discuss it over there. Basically, it has lens shift, 0.78" DC3 DMD (like the one used in HD78DC3 and HD79), and uses Gennum scalar.

Dear Ix,

Sorry that HD72 does not work in your setup. I believe you will be even more satisfied with HD78DC3 (or the upcoming new HD7300).

THanks for your many excellent comments and suggestions!! ;)

I dont htink there should be any comparison between the Mitsu HC3000, Sanyo Z4, AE900, and IN76 etc.. The H78DC3 and H79 are better, but those other ones are not. Not the BenQ ones either (8720 is nice). I dont believe htere is anything to debate about this projector (ohter htan the offest that makes it difficult) This PJ is amazing and atan AMAZING price... I do'nt see any reason to go any way othe rthan the Optoma HD72 IF you can mount it properly!

Since the IN76 isn't even released yet, this statement is about as accurate as your typing skills. The whole idea of these forums are about comparing pj's against each other and many people here would like nothing better than to hear the details of a head to head comparison.

I still have the thing, although it is no longer ceiling mounted. So when I got home from work, JUST FOR YOU GUYS :), I put it up and held it with the level on it. First thing I found out is my ceiling isn't perfectly level either - the drywall is offset or the paint texturing is throwing it off, I can't tell which. It's only off by a very tiny bit, but with this projector that is a lot, so I one-manned it, standing on a ladder, and shot the opening display to the wall, and measured.

I came up with 26.25 inches off the floor, so yes, above the 2 foot mark. But I have to say for me it doesn't make any difference because it's still too low. If nothing else I have a 24 inch hight A/V rack in front that all the in-ceiling cabling runs to and it would be a real pain in the ass to move. That said, with my seats (we're talking a sofa and a non-reclining chair here, nothing too fancy other than it being black) 26.25 or even 27 inches is too low. I was looking for about 32 inches, minimum.


Once again Ix, thanks for your help !!!

Nice to know that we finally figured out offset / mounting numbers which was rather painful experience because of conflicting mounting data coming from different people.

I think it will be helpful for everybody if you can put some offset / screen position numbers to your original post that made so much uproar. Your particular situation is understandable, but for majority of people 27" distance to the bottom of the screen will work just fine and it will be too bad if many people will turn away from such a nice and affordable PJ based on your subjective circumstances. I think they need to know the numbers so they can make a decision for themselves.

Once again, thanks a lot for going that extra mile :) .

BTW, I was under the impression your are going to keep both Optomas for head to head comparison, and now I read that you are going to send HD72 back ?

Davie.

Speaking of fans, for you high altitude guys, the fans with Image AI and High Altitude mode both on are about 28-30db with my sound meter vs. about 23-25 db without.

Ix,

I'm curious as to what kind of SPL meter you have that measures decibels down in that range ?

If so, it has to be from another one of their PJs, not the HD72 however. The HC3000 is based on the Mits HC900u - but both could very well be OEM'd from Optoma as you said.

Mitsubishi worked with TI to develop the new dlp chip used in both projectors and had a 90 day exclusive on the new chip, which is why the mitsubishi was released first. Wouldn't make much sense for Optoma to OEM a projector to Mits and then let them release it first.

Ix,

I'm curious as to what kind of SPL meter you have that measures decibels down in that range ?

The model number on it is SL-4022, it's a professional sound meter, technically it will go down to 30db but in practice it's more or less accurate a few db below that. It's not pin-point accurate which is why I just threw out a range. It's used more for commercial sound calibration; my brother in law used to use it to measure for dead spots in recording studios. It's a hand held meter that looks like your typical Radio Shack job except I think it costs $400 :)

I borrowed it and found it to be very handy when balancing my 7.1 surround system and I still had it laying around when they started asking about the sound level with different fan settings. I won't claim it's 100% accurate by any means :)

Just curious - are you saying that the contrast/black level is not as good as your previous projector the 4805, or are you saying that neither one of the projectors delivers the contrast you're looking for.

JeffKB,
The contrast/black level is better than the 4805. It's just that nothing at this price (that I know of) delivers super black blacks or super white whites. I'm not expecting it to. I was just using that as an example of how we have to live with some imperfections.

Also, as a side note, when I talk about problems with keystoning, I'm not talking about keystone correction, which I imagine, like Ix said, would produce some nasty artifacts.

With lowest offset (32%) your top of the screen should be 16.64" below center of lens so it appears that your PJ is not perfectly level. Just curious why did you mount this way -- it looks like you have some height to work with: 35.5 - 14 = 21.5" is the distance from center of the lense to ceiling. Wouldn't it be better to raise PJ a couple of inches and level it to avoid keystoning.

Unless there is some obstacle we don't know of -- like in my HT room I have 8.5" ceiling but there is this 12" darn beam right in the middle of the room

Eclipse98,
I have a beam too. Like Ix said, you most likely can get away with it. I put a book right in front of the lens to see how much could be obscured without obstructing the image, and it's an insane amount. However, my beam is about a foot in front of the projector.


Edge enhancement From the DVDs or from the projector?

ctcushing,
From the DVDs. When I watch DVDs with good transfers, such as TITANIC, or HD content, there is no edge enhancement present.

However, I would like to know what the sharpness should be set to. I've always had trouble with this, and have so far left it at 3, which is the default setting.

TzungILin,
Do you know if the HD72 bobs or weaves? Thanks.

Once again Ix, thanks for your help !!!

Nice to know that we finally figured out offset / mounting numbers which was rather painful experience because of conflicting mounting data coming from different people.

I think it will be helpful for everybody if you can put some offset / screen position numbers to your original post that made so much uproar. Your particular situation is understandable, but for majority of people 27" distance to the bottom of the screen will work just fine and it will be too bad if many people will turn away from such a nice and affordable PJ based on your subjective circumstances. I think they need to know the numbers so they can make a decision for themselves.

Once again, thanks a lot for going that extra mile :) .

BTW, I was under the impression your are going to keep both Optomas for head to head comparison, and now I read that you are going to send HD72 back ?

Davie.

I edited my post to reflect the new information and also to better point out that it's my opinion; others mileage may vary :)

I did keep it, I'm not sending it back until Wednesday. The H78DC3 arrives tomorrow from ProjectorPeople. Actually there is a forum member here in Austin who may buy mine just to get it now; if he's willing to deal in cash or certified funds (forum member or no, 2 grand is 2 grand) I may not have to send it back at all and the HD72 can continue to live a happy life in Austin :)

Mitsubishi worked with TI to develop the new dlp chip used in both projectors and had a 90 day exclusive on the new chip, which is why the mitsubishi was released first. Wouldn't make much sense for Optoma to OEM a projector to Mits and then let them release it first.
Ya - I can't really find any Optoma PJs (either current or discontinued) on their website that have the center case lens like the Mits, so in retrospect it does seem unlikely that it's an OEM. I will however defer to HiHoSteve if he wants to provide more info on his OEM statement to try to clear up the matter (not that it's a big deal either way). :)

It may be a bit early in the game for this, but I was wondering what settings you guys have come up with so far after calibrating your HD72's. I'm working on mine right now, but I'm having a hard time setting the RGB gain/bias just right. I don't have any professional testing equipment, so if any of you guys know how to do it right without testing equipment, or if you have the equipment, please post the settings you came up with to at least give me a good starting point. Thanks in advance.

Ya - I can't really find any Optoma PJs (either current or discontinued) on their website that have the center case lens like the Mits, so in retrospect it does seem unlikely that it's an OEM. I will however defer to HiHoSteve if he wants to provide more info on his OEM statement to try to clear up the matter (not that it's a big deal either way). :)

Well I would not want to name names....... but it was an "authorized" dealer that I met at CES and was chatting with that told me that information.

It may be a bit early in the game for this, but I was wondering what settings you guys have come up with so far after calibrating your HD72's. I'm working on mine right now, but I'm having a hard time setting the RGB gain/bias just right. I don't have any professional testing equipment, so if any of you guys know how to do it right without testing equipment, or if you have the equipment, please post the settings you came up with to at least give me a good starting point. Thanks in advance.

Let me chip in my normal way of a quick RGB gain/bias setting.

Use Avia or Video Essential DVD, find a grey scale pattern, like the one with 10 IRE steps from 0 to 100 IRE.

Look at the 70-90IRE ramp, tune RGB gain till you get a "grey" that you prefer.
Use 10-30 IRE ramp, tune RGB bias till you feel there is no color tinting in those ramp, and that it looks "grey" to you.

Usually, I tune the RGB bias first, then RGB gain, then look at 10-30 IRE again, back and forth until satisfied.

Of course, an ISF calibration is the best.

FYI.

The H78DC3 has a 5x 8 segment wheel instead of the HD72's 4x 7 segment which I am hoping will help with artifacting.

I know the dark segment helps with dither and noise, but imaking the color wheel speed faster(if it is 5x like you said) increases it as well so you might just break even and be the same as the HD72 lol.

Just FYI for those of you thinking about the Mitsubishi HC3000...

I am told that Mits OEM's the HC3000 from Optoma.

Ix...

You might want to spend some time in the H78dc3 thread... they seem to have an inordinate amount of bulb issues going on... perhaps not as bad as the BenQ 7700, but still a concern.

When you are doing your next comparison would you please report on the light output from the H78 as it compares to the HD72 and AE900? I am wanting to light up a larger screen (120+) and am concerned about the light output. I do not recall you mentioning this during your HD72/AE900 comparison.

Fleaman....

Yes, my BenQ 8700+ also leaves the top of the image fixed and zooms the other three sides... I found this out by accident as on SDTV I have a little bit of "noise" (which I am told is the audio track in the transmission) visible at the top of the screen... so I thought I would cleverly just increase the zoom a bit so this would be on the black portion of the screen frame and rendered invisible... but no grasshopper the top stayed exactly fixed and the other three sides moved... DOH!

Although Mits did OEM the HC2000 from Optoma I would doubt that the HC3000 is manufactured by Optoma since it utilizes the XD platform which is unique to Mits and it is an evolved product from the Mits manufactured HC900.
Lenny Eckian

Here's what I want to know:

1) Does it have the same threaded Tripod style mount in the center of its case like an H31 does?

2) Since it has the same 32% offset as the H31, does it also have a similar throw distance?

I'd love to be able to just swap out my H31...although I need to use digital keystoning to correct my H31's picture (I need to use a keystone of 5 to center it vertically on my screen) I notice no real difference in picture quality. But with 720p, I just might...Hmmmm...

The tripod style mount is to the left of center, almost over the lens.

It’s not the offset that bothers me with this projector – it’s the relatively short throw. Do you think an add-on teleconverter lens such as this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=394248&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

could be mounted to this projector?

My H78DC3 arrived this morning and after a very fun scare, where I believed the unit to be DOA before I learned the interesting and un-documented way that H series projectors are powered on (the power switch flips down to "I" instead of up to "O" and you also have to press the LED - which is marked Power LED, not Power Buttom, and is not an obvious button at all - to turn it on, I got it up and working.

I had to run to work (only way to pay for the damn thing) so I have not had a chance to calibrate it yet, but I should be able to get some good shots of it, the HD72, and the AE900u this evening.

I know the dark segment helps with dither and noise, but imaking the color wheel speed faster(if it is 5x like you said) increases it as well so you might just break even and be the same as the HD72 lol.

Well, now that Ix has his H78DC3, maybe he will be able to determine the king of smooth shadow details in his real world comparison between the two.

As for the color wheel speed and dithering: I thought that as long as you had a fast enough DLP chip/processor that could keep up with the extra segments and extra speed (like the DC3), the dithering and also motion artifacts wouldn't be a factor. Which is what makes this comparison so interesting since supposedly the HD72 has a fast processor/chip with the new BrilliantColor technology that supposedly has the added benefit of reducing dithering too (FWIR).

Ultimately Ix will be able to see with his own eyes the final result of this....even if he has to walk right up to the screen!

Fleaman

The tripod style mount is to the left of center, almost over the lens.

Hmmmm, well at least its still there (I wouldn't need a new mount)..I'd just have to shift it to one side I believe.

If the offset is the same I'd be stuck using keystoning again (my ceiling is very low, less than 7 feet), but people blow the keystoning thing way out of proportion nowadays......on my H31 the image change is unnoticable. I've read a few other folks saying on this machine its also unnoticible.

(For what its worth, my H31 is snug up against my drop ceiling, tilted slightly UP...my screen is snug up against my ceiling, flat. I tilt the projector up a bit and then keystone correct to make the image flat, and I have no complaints.

Yes, i've played with the keystoning....no, I've never seen a tangible image improvement from going from 0 to 1, 2, 3,4,5 Keystone settings. Yes, I've looked.
Yes, my glasses prescription is up to date :)

When this thing goes on Sale, it might be time to give my H31 a new home.

What are the CR numbers on this unit with the AI off? If its as good as the H31 I still wont have any complaints.....

OH..i can't seem to find it in the thread (or I've looked right it) whats the throw distance on this PJ, about the same as the H31?

Ix,

From a floor/table mount perspective, could you get some measurements for how high off the floor the bottom of the image is for your screen size when projecting from the floor/table? And what the throw distance is as well. I have low ceilings and am interested in possibly mounting the projector on a table for a 100" screen.

Thanks for the great work!

walstadm, the Optoma projectors generally have a pretty high offset....roughly 32% of the image height. If the 72 retains that offset its as follows:

You're throiwng a 100" image diagonal.

Thats about..what......a 49 inch high images. So 32 percent of 49 inches...15 inches or so?

That means the center of your lens would need to be either 15" Above, or 15" Below the top or bottom edge of your projected image. A foot and a half beneath the bottom of your screen, or above the top of it. Immediately you go "What!? No way, I dont have 8 foot high ceilings!"...all is not lost.

If you use digital keystoning, that all goes out the window...you can have your lens at the same level as your upper edge or lower edge, tilt the projector a bit, and then correct for that tilt with digital keystoning (vertical).

Some claim you lose image quality using Keystone....I say its Hogwash, as I've done both and can see no perceivable difference between the two (using it versus not using it).
Your mileage may vary......this is generally a knee-jerk reaction from people who owned an older projector, or who read AVS 4 years ago researching a Panny 200 or Sanyo Z1 or earlier PJ, where digital keystoning would noticibly degrade the image.


Uh and as a disclaimer...if the HD72 does not have that 32 percent offset, then just re-factor the math with whatever percent offset it has.

Ix,

From a floor/table mount perspective, could you get some measurements for how high off the floor the bottom of the image is for your screen size when projecting from the floor/table? And what the throw distance is as well. I have low ceilings and am interested in possibly mounting the projector on a table for a 100" screen.

Thanks for the great work!

Throw distance for 100" is 11'5" to 13'8".
If you put projector on the floor offset is going to be:

49" (height of the screen)*0.32 + 2" (to center of lens) = 17.68"

Add to this height of your table. If you want higher, do the same calc with 37% offsett (the max this PJ can deliver).

First off thanks to the pioneers who are blazing the H72 trail and helping the rest of us along the way!

I've used the offset calculations and I *think* I may have a workable situation. I want to run it by a few of you and see if I've missed anything.

I have an 8' ceiling. My target throw is going to be 15'. I currently have a 106" screen (45" high) that fully extended, the bottom rests 22" from the floor. The top of the screen to the ceiling is 29".

Using the offset calculations, the projector will need to be 16.5" - 18.65" above the top edge of the screen. Someone also tossed out 1" offset per foot of throw (15"). Either way I think this projector is a contender.

Am I nuts? Missing something?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Hmmmm, well at least its still there (I wouldn't need a new mount)..I'd just have to shift it to one side I believe.


Also note Ix's comment further back:


It does, for what it's worth. I didn't know you could use that for mounting, when I stuck a screw in there to test and picked the PJ up with it the plastic surrounding it bowed out in an alarming fashion, but maybe it works.


I'm not sure I'm going to risk using my H31 Panavise mount if that's the case.

-Mike

Some claim you lose image quality using Keystone....I say its Hogwash, as I've done both and can see no perceivable difference between the two (using it versus not using it).
Your mileage may vary......this is generally a knee-jerk reaction from people who owned an older projector, or who read AVS 4 years ago researching a Panny 200 or Sanyo Z1 or earlier PJ, where digital keystoning would noticibly degrade the image.



It's not a knee jerk reaction at all. Digital Keystoning an image reduces the pixels in use by rendering some of them black, and reduces lumen output. On many projectors it often "softens" the image somewhat and although there are a few that apparently don't have this problem (LCD's) I could most certainly watch a DVD scene soften up as I used more keystone correction with the HD72 - pick any scene with lots of fine details, such as long hair, and you'll see details start to disappear. It's also easy to spot on the crosshatch patterns used by Avia and DE.

I'll be the first to agree that most people probably wouldn't notice a very mild amount of vertical digital keystone adjustment, but to call it a knee jerk reaction based on old information simply isn't accurate. Whether it happens or not is not the debatable point, because it does. Whether a person cares or not, that's where opinion comes in. I stand by my earlier statement that if I'm going to spend this kind of money on a projector I'm going to get it "right" , right being defined as my own personal preference. Hell I just spent over a thousand more on a single projector because I just couldn't get the 2k range ones to work for me. That doesn't make me right and others wrong, that's just my own preference.

Also note Ix's comment further back:



I'm not sure I'm going to risk using my H31 Panavise mount if that's the case.

-Mike

To be fair, I didn't do a full on test with an actual mount that was meant to use that center hole, so don't take my statement as the last word.

It certainly appears as though it SHOULD be a mount hole, and the HD72 is a very light projector, so maybe it does work. I can't tell one way or another with what I have on hand.

...If you use digital keystoning, that all goes out the window...you can have your lens at the same level as your upper edge or lower edge, tilt the projector a bit, and then correct for that tilt with digital keystoning (vertical).

Some claim you lose image quality using Keystone....I say its Hogwash, as I've done both and can see no perceivable difference between the two (using it versus not using it).


Let me make sure that I understand what you are saying. Are you proposing that the HD72 can be mounted even with the top (or bottom) of the image, thereby requiring a ~32% vertical keystone adjustment? And are you proposing that a 32% keystone adjustment will not degrade image quality?

Let me make sure that I understand what you are saying. Are you proposing that the HD72 can be mounted even with the top (or bottom) of the image, thereby requiring a ~32% vertical keystone adjustment?


Yes, but no to the "requiring 32 degrees of keystone adjustment".

You hang the screen and projector. The Projector lens is positioned a bit lower than, say, your screen case..so the lens is pointing almost at your screen, but probably more near your upper screen border.

Next, tilt it up towards the ceiling. PJ is hanging at the same height, but your lens is now pointing up a bit towards the ceiling. Since there is a large image offset, you aren't projecting onto your ceiling, but instead are projecting on your screen, but the resulting picture is trapezoidal.....narrower at the bottom in this case.

You use a few clicks of vertical keystone adjustment to correct for this.

Make popcorn, enjoy movie.


And are you proposing that a 32% keystone adjustment will not degrade image quality?

For years people doing projector reviews have stated that using keystoning is inadvisiable. And I agree...dont use it if you dont have to. But they have also been stating in those reviews that turning on digital keystone correction has far less of an impact on image quality than it did, say, 2 or 3 projector generations ago, where the difference was VERY obvious that keystoning destroyed an image.

Oh my H31, a 480p projector, using keystoning produces no tangible effect on the image. Other owners have said the same thing.

There are others who stick to the party line, and think if you have to use digital keystone correction, you're...whatever, pick a derogatory term :) I think its alot of rubbish...because even if you do turn on keystone correction, the resulting images are still beautiful....to some, its fine...to others, its unacceptable.

I do not own an H72. I cannot say if turning on an H72's keystone adjustments mars the image, however I will say that if its anything like the past few yeras of projectors, the impact i has on overall image quality would seem to be slim at best. IF there was a large, noticible degridation in image quality, the I'd say find another technology.

Of course, you can't make that judgement using a freeze-frame. Watch some scenes from a movie with keystone on and off..and see if you can REALLY tell the difference. Just because an effect is there, doesn't mean its noticible in the real world...ie: Actually *watching* something, and not staring at a frozen fixed pattern.

To some thats saying "well you'renot getting the most out of your projector", and those people would be right...but then again, if you had options, you'd probably take them, right? And at the $2k pricepoint...there aren't many options unless you go LCD, and deal with cleaning airfilters and blowing out dustblobs and worrying about burning-out polarizers and stuff......some people dont mind, others do.

The $2000 market isn't exactly loaded with 720p DLP projectors with that feature...infact few DLP projectors offer a lens-shift like the LCDs do, so sometimes in order to get the high image quality of DLP, you settle for a few clicks of keystone adjustment, or you upgrade to some much more expensive projector that has a near-zero offset.

Alot of folks aren't willing to spend $1000+ more on a zero-offset projector....nor are they willing to settle for a 720p LCD projector with lens-shift.

If I wanted a $2k projector, but had to spend $3k to get rid of keystone, I'd live with keystone..or I'd buy a $1k projector and wait until the $3k projector is $1k cheaper :)

HeadRusch.........

Did you ever try tilting the top of the screen out toward the projector a bit? Seems like with a fixed screen that putting a few washers behind the screen to shim it out a bit would not be that difficult.

If I wanted a $2k projector, but had to spend $3k to get rid of keystone, I'd live with keystone..or I'd buy a $1k projector and wait until the $3k projector is $1k cheaper :)

That last sentence of yours is actually the original point I was trying to make:) We've come full circle here.

This link does a great job explaining the keystone issue, and it's based off recent projectors (the AE900u and Z4 are mentioned):

http://www.projectorreviews.com/advice/general/opticalkeystone.asp

Again, a few, a very few degrees ("clicks") of vertical digital keystone adjustment would not be noticed by a lot of people I imagine. The offset with the HD72, combined with the throw distance (12 or more feet) and the screen size (100 inch diagonal) in my particular setup would mean digital keystone correction of quite a bit more than a few degrees - more like 20, assuming I wanted my image at least 30 inches off the floor which I certainly do.

Remember, I've done this. I bought the HD72; it's still sitting on my credit card. I wanted this projector to work, in the worst way. I have no agenda out against it (or keystone adjustments) if anything I am biased for it. All I can continue to say is that I actually own the thing, I've seen it in person, I've watched movies on it (well, scenes from movies), I've tried it in various mounting positions - all things that the majority of folks reading and posting in this thread have not done :). The degree of keystone adjustment required had a very noticeable effect on the picture and remember - I was hoping it would be ok, not wishing it would fail. As quoted above, if I was willing to settle on this, I would have just bought a 480p projector for $1000 and waited until the one I wanted came down in price in the first place :)

That's all.

HeadRusch.........

Did you ever try tilting the top of the screen out toward the projector a bit? Seems like with a fixed screen that putting a few washers behind the screen to shim it out a bit would not be that difficult.

Nope, but if the image quality had degraded, I would have considered that option before returning the projector since I dig it so much :)

I have an 8' ceiling. My target throw is going to be 15'. I currently have a 106" screen (45" high) that fully extended, the bottom rests 22" from the floor. The top of the screen to the ceiling is 29".

Using the offset calculations, the projector will need to be 16.5" - 18.65" above the top edge of the screen. Someone also tossed out 1" offset per foot of throw (15"). Either way I think this projector is a contender.

Am I nuts? Missing something?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Your calculations are a bit off. For 45" high screen (unless you provided incorrect numbers since 16:9 106" screen height is 54") offset range will be 14.4" to 16.65" (note that it's from the center of the lens). Note that max throw distance for 106" 16:9 screen is 14'6".

Since I was the one who tossed '1" offset per 1 foot of throw' I will comment on that as well -- if you take 106" 16:9 screen and try to use the lowest offset (32%) your PJ is going to be 14"6' away, offset is going to be 17.28. So roughly it is 1 inch per foot of throw, to be more exact 1.19" per foot of throw.

Those numbers of course will change if you start using zoom since offset % will change as well.

HTH, Davie.

Nope, but if the image quality had degraded, I would have considered that option before returning the projector since I dig it so much :)

I am surprised that tilting of the screen it is not being widely used. You have to tilt only a few degrees in majority of cases and I doubt it will even be noticable unless you're looking for it. I haven't tried it, but it seems rather natural, particularly for people with recliners.

Perhaps people are just intimidated by math of properly calculating tilt angle. I'll definitely try tilting before keystoning.

Thanks Davie.

Your absolutely right. The measurements are correct - my memory is the problem :)

The screen is 92". Looks like given my throw distance this projector just got scratched from the list. :(

Can I mount a lens on the H72 to increase my throw distance a couple feet?

Your calculations are a bit off. For 45" high screen (unless you provided incorrect numbers since 16:9 106" screen height is 54") offset range will be 14.4" to 16.65" (note that it's from the center of the lens). Note that max throw distance for 106" 16:9 screen is 14'6".

HTH, Davie.

Davie........

54" is the height for a 110" diag. 16x9 screen... I believe 52" is for the 106."

Davie........

54" is the height for a 110" diag. 16x9 screen... I believe 52" is for the 106."

Oops.. You are right -- simply calculating everything for my 110" screen so my mind was somewhere else. Thanks for catching it.

Thanks Davie.

Your absolutely right. The measurements are correct - my memory is the problem :)

The screen is 92". Looks like given my throw distance this projector just got scratched from the list. :(

Can I mount a lens on the H72 to increase my throw distance a couple feet?

For 92" max throw distance is 12'7", sorry I am not familiar with lenses that increase throw range, perhaps somebody who knows can comment on this .

I will be receiving my HD72 on Thursday. I have already mounted the screen. I have a Da-Lite tab tensioned 92" (45 x 80) diagional screen in which the viewing area (45 x 80) is 28" from the bottom of the floor. I have 9 foot (108") ceilings. What is the min and max throw distance? What is distance from the top of ceiling I need to mount the projector (please include the center of the lens number)? I will be using the Chief universal mount (RPA-U) with a adjustable pole that can extend to 18".

I will be receiving my HD72 on Thursday. I have already mounted the screen. I have a Da-Lite tab tensioned 92" (45 x 80) diagional screen in which the viewing area (45 x 80) is 28" from the bottom of the floor. I have 9 foot (108") ceilings. What is the min and max throw distance? What is distance from the top of ceiling I need to mount the projector (please include the center of the lens number)? I will be using the Chief universal mount (RPA-U) with a adjustable pole that can extend to 18".

Pglover19, congrats on a new PJ, I am about to order one too.
Throw distance for 92" is 10'6" to 12'7". You can get it from:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD72-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Offset will change depending on the distance you mount your PJ. Assuming you mount it at the max distance 12'7" offset is going to be 32% or 14.4".

With 108" ceiling center of the lens should be:

108 - 28 - 45 - 14.4 = 20.6" from the ceiling

which is almost perfect for you since you have 18" mount + 2" inches to the center of the lens. If you don't have enough extension on your mount you might want to mount PJ closer to the screen therefore increasing offset number. Max offset is 37% or 16.65". So if you mount at 10'6" you will need to mount PJ 2.25" higher.

HTH, Davie.

I will be mounting the projector 11 foot away from the screen. With that in mind, can you please re-calculate the numbers for me..

I will be mounting the projector 11 foot away from the screen. With that in mind, can you please re-calculate the numbers for me..

Since 11' it's just 6" from 10'6" it is not going to be much different. Maybe .25-.5 inches higher. There is no way to give you a hard number. You get a general idea how high it's going to be, just mount it and adjust. There are too many variables here that can affect your mount height, e.g. your PJ or ceiling can be not completely level. By no means use those numbers as 'final answer'.

For anyone who is interested, the following was posted in the H81 thread related to tilting the projector and screen slightly to fit in a room with a 7 ft ceiling.


avsforum :) com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6884255&&#post6884255


P.S. sorry for the cryptic url. Apparently, as a new user I am not allowed to post a real url until after 5 posts.

How about posting some pictures! I am in Iraq waiting on my HD72 to upgrade the theater I provide for my camp. Sure would be nice to see some pictures especially demonstrating what to expect with the BrilliantColor technology and brightness. Currently, I set the unit up in the chow hall and sometimes can not control all the light. Will also use outdoors.

Been waiting for the HD72 to be available. Have a 7'6" basement ceiling (90"), with a 10 ft throw and a 86" screen (max zoom for this projector). With a ~ 15" offset, 2" to top of projector, 3" for ceiling mount and a 42" screen I end up with the bottom of the screen being 28" off the floor.

Since this will be my first projector, my question is regarding screen placement and whether 28" off floor will be to low?

Thanks for any input,

Been waiting for the HD72 to be available. Have a 7'6" basement ceiling (90"), with a 10 ft throw and a 86" screen (max zoom for this projector). With a ~ 15" offset, 2" to top of projector, 3" for ceiling mount and a 42" screen I end up with the bottom of the screen being 28" off the floor.

Since this will be my first projector, my question is regarding screen placement and whether 28" off floor will be to low?

Thanks for any input,

Not at all...the THX recommended viewing height is 1/3 up the vertical image. That puts you at 14"+28"= 42" (3.5')...this is probably how you got this number because this is the same number I shoot for with normal seating height (although, I usually end up a lot lower in a reclined state).

What you and others need to remember is that this is a 16:10 projector (TI notation not mine), that will leave about 2-4 inches of black(grey) bars under this. I have to admit though, after calibration we have a very hard time seeing those bars due to the HD72 great black level (I actually had to crank up the brightness to mount the projector).

How about posting some pictures! I am in Iraq waiting on my HD72 to upgrade the theater I provide for my camp. Sure would be nice to see some pictures especially demonstrating what to expect with the BrilliantColor technology and brightness. Currently, I set the unit up in the chow hall and sometimes can not control all the light. Will also use outdoors.

You will love the bright image this puts out. I am at 13 feet and at max zoom (113")...and the calculator works right on ProjectorCentral, but for the 16:9 image only. I tried the "TV" setting like TzungILin mentioned for brighter image and it works great...you might try that in well lit conditions. For some ambient lighting, Cinema mode still puts out a watchable image as well. I don't have any pictures...I still don't have internet at our new apartment and I am at work.

Thanks for being over there for all of us...we appreciate all of the risk you are taking on all of our behalf,

EDIT: Political and religious comments removed.
Kyser

Hi, Newbie ordering this projector.

I just want to be sure I can use this pj. My room is about 22ft deep, by bout 13ft wide, and 7ft tall. (7ft 1in exactly)

I plan on projecting a 120" diag screen. Is this possible. Seating is far enough back but I wasn't sure if my room is too tal. Idon't knwo how to compute whether this will work and I don't know for sure what the offset is for this projector. Can someone help me run through a sample calculation and use the offset to show me how it works? I just want the process cleared up. I am very excited to receive this projector. Also, I have used the projector centrals calculator and found that for my desired 120" image, my pj shoudl be about 16.4ft back. (For extra info, my room is wood panelled and has no light sources other than anything refledcting of these, so i plan on making a good DIY screen after I see the results of the Chicago shootout. I am thinking of a RS_Maxxmud or SilverScreen unelss anyone has any other ideas)

How about posting some pictures! I am in Iraq waiting on my HD72 to upgrade the theater I provide for my camp. Sure would be nice to see some pictures especially demonstrating what to expect with the BrilliantColor technology and brightness. Currently, I set the unit up in the chow hall and sometimes can not control all the light. Will also use outdoors.
If you're going to use it with bright ambient light on a regular basis, I wouldn't get any projector with less than 2,000 lumens. The HD72 is one of the brighter of the "home theater" projectors, but you might be better off getting a "business" projector. The Mitsubishi XD460u might be a better choice for your application simply because of brightness. It's 2600 lumens with 2500:1 contrast ratio and it uses the new BrilliantColor technology too. It's a 4:3 native projector, but with the brightness you could expand the image pretty big on 16:9 material to still achieve a nice sized image. Just something else to throw into the pot...

With all this talk of offset, I think we haven't discussed one aspect of the HD72 that's really important: the native resolution. I think that ProjectorCentral's throw calculator and many of the offset numbers that have been posted are based on the 1280x768 native resolution. Back when I originally posted my offset calculations, which showed that the offset was about 37%, I was using an HDTV source for the picture, not just the blue screen that appears when there's no signal present. Since HDTV is 1.78:1 aspect ratio just like my screen, I set up my HD72 to fill the screen when watching HD sources. If I would have set it up based on the blue screen, I would have had black bars at the top and bottom of the screen, each 24 pixels high, when watching HD sources. Since HD is 1.78:1 aspect ratio and other sources only get "smaller" from there (1.85:1, 2:35:1 etc.), I would assume that most people would want HD to perfectly fill the screen. That's assuming you're using a 1.78:1 screen. One of the functions in the HD72 is that you can select between 16:10 (1280x768) or 16:9 (1280x720) aspect ratio. First, I want to know which of those resolutions ProjectorCentral is basing their throw calculator on. Second, I want to know if you guys who have the HD72 are setting them up using the blue screen, or by using a bright image from an HD source. I may have a complete misunderstanding of this whole thing, and I admit that I'm relatively new to all this stuff, but I thought I'd post this anyways to maybe understand better or get some discussion going about this.

Hi, Newbie ordering this projector.

I just want to be sure I can use this pj. My room is about 22ft deep, by bout 13ft wide, and 7ft tall. (7ft 1in exactly)

I plan on projecting a 120" diag screen. Is this possible. Seating is far enough back but I wasn't sure if my room is too tal. Idon't knwo how to compute whether this will work and I don't know for sure what the offset is for this projector. Can someone help me run through a sample calculation and use the offset to show me how it works? I just want the process cleared up. I am very excited to receive this projector. Also, I have used the projector centrals calculator and found that for my desired 120" image, my pj shoudl be about 16.4ft back. (For extra info, my room is wood panelled and has no light sources other than anything refledcting of these, so i plan on making a good DIY screen after I see the results of the Chicago shootout. I am thinking of a RS_Maxxmud or SilverScreen unelss anyone has any other ideas)

Your projector can be anywhere from 13.8 to 16.8 feet away from your screen, depending on how you set the zoom lens....so you'd have about 3 feet of space to play with in order to mount it.

Lets keep this simple, others can probably fine tune this but just for discussions sake:

7 feet = 84 inches. So you have 84 inches to work with from floor to ceiling.

A 120" screen that is 16:9 is 59 inches in height.

84-59 = 25 inches left.

Figure a 2 inch border around your screen. one top, one bottom.
25-2-2 = 21 inches left of unused space.

Lets say your screen is flat smack dab up against your ceiling....and all of your 21 inches of "free space" are from the floor to the bottom edge of your screen border.

IF you mounted the HD72 on the floor, or just slightly above it, you could throw that image with the 72's offset........if you ceiling mounted it, you'd need a ton of keystone correction. Doable, but not ideal...wires will run on the floor and you'll need to have seating "around" the projector and nothing that blocks its lightpath in front.

But the bigger problem here is that.....at 21" off the ground, your screen is just too low. Unless you plan on sitting on the floor, that screen is too big for that ceiling height. Your legs and feet will be blocking the lower part of the image, and you really dont want that.

I have a 106" screen that is snug up against my ceiling, and from my cushy couches with my feet up I just barely make it....I too wanted 120", but with my ceilings I just can't pull it off without compromising the viewing experience.

I have the H31, the 480p little brother to this new 720p HD72.

EDIT: NOW WITH 100% MORE PICTURES

Last night I held my shootout; today the AE900u and HD72 have left my house forever.

Unfortunately I had some problems with the pics - I set my camera to use a higher resolution (it's 4.1mp but was set to 1024x768) and I must have screwed something up because a lot of the shots came out blurry, even the paused ones. Of course this was after I packed up the other projects and unmounted them.

That said I did get some good 3 way shots of some films - Spiderman, LOTR, 5th Element, Wedding Crashers, and Gladiator - and I'll be posting those down below for what they are worth (I personally feel it's hard to get a good idea of how a projector does with actual movies based on some still shots taken by an amateur with a consumer-level digital camera that are later compressed further for browser viewing, but that's just me).


WARNING: INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD OPINION INCOMING.

DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS:

This is my opinion. It is not your opinion. It is not better than your opinion and it is not worse. You are not a stupid cretin for disagreeing with my opinion nor are you a superior example of humanity for the same reason. The reverse applies, I am not a superior example of humanity or a stupid cretin for disagreeing with your opinions. I am a superior human being, but not for these reasons.

I am not Captain McFancyPants with a $2,000 color analyzer and light meter and laptop with grayscale spreadsheets and other assorted dongles that I don’t even know about but I am sure must exist; I am a 36 year old male with astigmatism that requires corrective lenses and a wife who wonders why I just don’t buy a damn TV. Whatever you do, don’t take this review personally.

If you don’t agree with the above statement, then you are a stupid cretin. Ha! See what I did there? Now pay attention.

Here was the shootout:

Panasonic AE900u

Optoma HD72

Optoma H78DC3

I felt bad for the Panny; it is a great low cost 720p projector, but it doesn't belong being paired with the latter two projectors. It was good to have for contrast (no pun intended) with them, however.

The setup:

Oppo DVD feeding 720p upconverted DVD via a 30 foot DVI cable with HDMI adapters on one end (none for the H78DC3 which is DVI only).

Screen: 100’' (that is 100 inches diagonal chuckles) 16x9 DYI screen, ¼ inch MDF sprayed with Kilz2 white primer. This produces a flat white 1.0 gain image that doesn’t shift color. Owners of $3,000 Stewart Studiotek’s may begin screaming now. I also have screen fabric from Carada Screens – their Cinema Grey (0.8), Brilliant White (1.4) and regular (1.0). I’ll comment on those where applicable.

I also used an Optoma Greywolf 106’ pulldown screen, dark grey, 1.8 gain, with the AE900u but did not have it for this shootout. Stewart Studiotek owners may resume screaming now.

Only the Panasonic, my original projector, was ceiling mounted and aligned. The other two were shelf mounted (H78) or floor mounted/low table (HD72) and while I leveled them out as best I could I didn't bother getting it 100% lined up with the screen, or really even that close to be honest. Didn't really matter for this test but keep that in mind when you view the shots.

Calibration: No color analyzers or light meters here, just my eyeballs, Avia DVD, and a blue filter. I tuned each as best I could with that, using recommendations posted here to help further tweak. The AE900u is probably the "best" adjusted since I've had it the longest and fiddled with it several times. The H78DC3 is the "least" adjusted since I just got it, all I really had time to do is a basic contrast/brightness/sharpness adjustment. As a result I think there is a slight red push with that unit that I need to adjust out, going by the greyscale patterns I viewed (the darker parts of grey seemed to have a very slight red tint, in other words). I'm going to get the thing ISF calibrated in a couple months anyway.

All projectors were set to "Cinema" mode with bright lamp mode turned off. The H78 was set to Color Temp 2, Gamma 1, and "TV" mode as per many recommendations on AVS.

1) Aesthetics/Design/Features:

Don't tell my wife but that is a LOT of mortage payments sitting there on my floor:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3209/img0897large2iy.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0897large2iy.jpg)

Well, you can look at the 3 side by side in the pic above and see for yourself. The HD72 is easily the smallest and lightest while the H78 is a real beast next to it and the Panasonic. The HD72 is about 7 pounds, the AE900u 7.9 pounds, and the H78 16 pounds. The CRT forum guys are laughing right now.

The AE900u has a 2.0 zoom and horizontal/vertical lens shift (100% but not both at the same time, i.e. you won't get the full range of one if you use a little of the other) making it the hands down easy setup king. You can stick it anywhere in practically any room. I don't really like the way the lens shift works; you move it around with the same knob and it's very easy to move it left or right when you really meant to move it up or down, and vice versa. That, and the way you "lock" the knob by turning it often means you'll shift it a little. Kind of annoying when trying to get it "just right" but it's a minor, minor nit to pick.

The H78DC3 has vertical lens shift meaning you can still shelf mount it, and 1.35 zoom. It too was pretty flexible; I was able to easily use the old shelf I had for the AE900u, and interestingly enough I found the lack of horizontal shift to be a bonus in that configuration - it's easy enough to shift the thing left or right on a shelf and there's no way to "accidentally" horizontally shift the lens like you can with the AE900u. Lack of a horizontal shift hurts more when ceiling mounting since you either have to get it exactly right, or you have to adjust the screen. The third option is just to get a mount with a horizontal adjustment built in which is what I did (Chief RPA with LS-100 lateral mount accessory).

The HD72 has zero lens shift which you already knew from reading any post in this forum. Enough has already been said about it's fixed offset, the bottom line is, whether it happens to work for you or not, it's still much less flexible than the other two for placement.

The HD72 and AE900u have an HDMI input, the HD72 also includes a DVI input while the AE900u has a 15 pin d-sub for PC’s. The H78DC3 has a DVI input and includes a HDMI-DVI adapter in the box which was a nice touch for people who already have HDMI cables in the ceiling. The H78DC3 also has a 5 point BNC connector which you can use for PC’s with the right cable although most of us just use other switches anyway. All 3 have component, s-video, composite, etc inputs as well.

Last feature: Both Optoma models have a feature where it will scale the output of 2:35.1 Scope movies so that you can use a lens to stretch the pic and in short, get a 2:35.1 picture to fill a 2.35.1 screen. The AE900u only does this with 480i signals which in this day and age means it might as well not do it at all; you will probably want a scaler with it. You can learn more than you ever wanted about this in the Constant Height forum.

Score:
AE900u 9 (Almost perfect)
H78DC3 8 (big white box, but mostly flexible placement options)
HD72 6 (it's small and looks cool, but inflexible)


Remotes:

Not much to say here. The AE900u has a nice remote that it universal, which probably doesn't matter to 95% of the people here. Point of Concern: I actually got two AE900u's, one returned for VB and dead pixels; the other for even more dead pixels, and with the first unit, the IR receiver would not pick up signals bounced off the front screen. The second unit would, even with the first unit's remote, so I am not sure what's up there. In any case, the second unit had a decent, strong remote that was laid out well, and backlit. That said, due to its "universal" nature a lot of direct access buttons to things like calibration controls, image modes, etc had to be accessed via the menu.

The Optomas take a different approach; their remotes are purely for the projector with no attempt at trying to control other components. As a result, both the HD72 and H78 remotes, though different in looks, had most of the same functions, with direct access to most setup features. This made calibrating them much easier.

The HD72 remote was weak; the signal wouldn't bounce off the screen at all. It didn't work too good with my Pronto either although that did work better.

The H78DC3 remote looks like a little kids toy, but it worked well and signals would be received anywhere in the room. A triumph of function over form.

Score:
AE900u 6
HD72 5
H78DC3 8

Picture review:

The only part of this review you were actually reading for, don’t lie. I’m not here to disappoint so lets go:

Color balance, uniformity:

In the old days, LCD would have won here. In the old days, this was the one thing you could count on with LCD’s used for Home Theater. Those old days are gone.

Color is probably the most subjective of all tests, which is why it’s best usually to just break out the pro equipment, calibrate to established industry guidelines, and let the numbers do the talking. We don’t have any of that fancy-pants gear here at Ix headquarters so I’ll just say first of all, all 3 units looked “good”. The HD72 with BrilliantColor (I used setting “3”) had the most “vivid” color of the 3, but with some films it almost looked…cartoony, I don’t know the word I am looking for here. Too bright in some ways, to where details were lost due to color bleeding. With BrilliantColor off it was hard for me to tell the difference between it and the AE900u other than contrast.

The HD78DC3 had the most “natural” or “film like” looking color, if either of those two subjective terms work for you. I don’t want to call it yet because I’ve seen it do better, and as I mentioned earlier I haven’t calibrated the color on this unit at all. I think there’s a bit of red bias/push to be worked on, but it still looked darn good. Very “balanced”.

The AE900u looked good, but next to the HD72 it was “overwhelmed” color-wise.


Rating

Subjective and too hard to call without further calibration. I prefer the H78DC3’s “natural” output even uncalibrated over the other two so take that as you will.

Brightness:

The HD72 is bright, even in “low” lamp mode. What is “bright” you may ask, with no light meter handy? Well kids, in this context it means “subjectively, the HD72 appeared brighter than the other two projectors after calibrating by eye using consumer level tools in a light controlled room.” Put that in your pipe and smoke it. The HD72 is so bright I could easily see it on a 1.0 gain screen with the lights half-turned up in my room.

The AE900u gets washed out fairly easily – I think this is due to its lower contrast and not its lumen output. You video engineers can now take my attempt at trying to sound semi-pro and tear it to shred among yourselves. On a side note: while I didn’t have it for the shootout, I did have a 106’ Optoma Greywolf pulldown screen with this projector at first, this is a dark grey 1.8 gain screen. If ambient light is an issue I would recommend this screen for this projector as it worked very well. In a light controlled environment I found it to be too “sparkly”.

The HD78DC3 didn’t appear as “bright” as the HD72 but it didn’t “wash out” as fast as the AE900u when ambient light was stepped in. It was by no means “dim”, just not as bright next to the HD72. The H78 looked very good with the Carada 1.4 gain screen sample I have; I will probably choose that for use with this projector. The HD72 worked fine with the regular Carada and my DYI screen. More the AE900u and screens later.

Rating:

Again, too subjective so I’ll leave out numbers, but I would rank them:

H72
H78DC3
AE900u

This is perceived brightness, on a 1.0 gain screen. The AE900u did better with ambient light with the 1.8 gain Greywolf but I am going by memory here.

Contrast:

Probably the most important part of determining a projectors perceived image, and it was really no contest: The Darkchip 3 in the H78DC3 was clearly superior to the HD72 and the AE900u. In turn, the HD72 was clearly superior to the AE900u. Next to the two DLP’s the Panasonic, which I previously had considered to have excellent black levels (for an LCD) looked bluish-grey. That said, black level isn’t the whole story with contrast, of course, there is also how white appears and this is where the H78DC3 really showed up the other two. Next to it, whites on the AE900u appeared “crushed” and somewhat dim. The HD72 held up much better – white “popped” but that appears to be a function of BrilliantColor, which has it’s own problems (in my opinion, noted above). I preferred the H78 image even knowing grayscale is out of whack. It has a much better perceived contrast range.

The said, the HD72 is no slouch in this area, especially for the price.

The AE900u has a gimmicky auto-iris to “boost” contrast ratios; in practice it isn’t that great, especially in mixed-mode light/dark scenes. You can see it working after a while and it’s annoying. I remember with the Greywolf that it did make blacks “blacker” but at the expense of white, which was crushed as it was. That’s why I returned the screen by the time of this shootout. That said, it did appear a little better with the Digital Grey sample from Carada, as in whites were not as compromised, so perhaps that is the route to take. YMMV

The HD72 uses a gimmicky “AI” feature that uses lamp modulation to boost contrast. I found it to be annoying to watch and the way the fan spun up and down when in use was even more so over time. Luckily its contrast is still pretty good without it.

Rating:
H78DC3 – Hands down winner here. Contrast game over.
HD72 - If you never saw the projector above you might never know
AE900u – Very good for LCD, but this is where it gets beat.

Image “Quality” (Sharpness, artifacts, dithering, SDE, RBE, etc).

Now for the most subjective part of the whole review. The DLP’s hardly suffer from SDE the way LCD’s do so it’s no surprise that the AE900u had it worse in that regard, although the Panasonic “Smoothscreen” technology does a very, very good job up to 1 x screen width of hiding it – at the expense of sharpness.

I am not sensitive to rainbows nor do I wish to look for them so I am afraid I can’t tell you all about that; someone else will have to chime in.

The HD72 and H78DC3 was razor sharp. The AE900u had a “softer” picture than the latter probably due to Smoothscreen.

The H78DC3 was the sharpest and resolved detail the best, as any crowd scene from several DVD’s demonstrated, probably due to a better lens assembly than the HD72. Little details like fine hair, etc really stood out on the former.

I didn’t originally see any dithering with the HD72 until I got the H78DC3 running; the latter has so little it’s tempting to say it shows no dithering – especially in black – at all. Certainly you won’t see it sitting back. The HD72 has a little “noise” in blacks but again, I only noticed stacked up against the other. The AE900u doesn’t show much at all but this is due more to its softer picture, which in this case may be a good thing.

Panning, such as during sports games, is where things got interesting. The AE900u had very few “motion artifacts” during the Superbowl (ABC HD feed, OTA not cable or dish). The HD72 had quite a few; in fact if I had to pick the most annoying picture related problem with the HD72 that would be it.

The H78DC3 had very few, if any, motion artifacts. I could barely see any even when actively searching for them.

OVERALL IMAGE OPINON.

The H78DC3 had a more “Film like” and “3D” image, meaning my little home theater looked more like a real theater which means….whatever you want it to mean. The HD72 had a bright, “punchy” image with lots of color, a little TOO much color with some films.

The poor AE900u….it looked really good by itself, but even my wife liked the other projectors better, and she was rooting for the AE900u based on price. As I said above, with rebates the AE900u is far cheaper than the other projectors – you could buy two for the price of a H78DC3 practically – so keep that in mind.

Overall the H78DC3 is the winner. Gee big surprise, I know, you are thinking “Wow Ix you picked the projector that cost the most and is the one you are keeping, what a gigantic shocker” but in this case it is true that you do get what you pay for.

The HD72 held up pretty darn well, although I found BrilliantColor to get in the way of my optimal film viewing experience (you’d get beaten up if you said that in a bar, how’s that for snobbery) and it didn’t handle artifacts and dithering as well, which made for a less “smooth” image.

PICTURES AHOY MATEY:

AE900u:
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0882.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0883.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0886.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0889.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0890.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0891.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0894.JPG

HD72:

http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0947.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0953.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0954.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0957.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0968.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0970.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0973.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0978.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0989.JPG


H78DC3

http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0898.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0900.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0901.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0903.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0904.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0913.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0915.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0916.JPG
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/IMG_0932.JPG

Hope you enjoyed the review and remember YMMV.

I enjoyed it...thanks for writing it up!

Great review - love the disclaimer!

Thanks for the write up Ix. Most suprising to me was the obvious difference between the HD72 and the H78DC3 during pans and dithering. I was hopeful that the new DMD controller (3020) being used in the HD72 would improve upon the H78DC3. What DMD controller does the H78DC3 use? What else could account for a noticable difference?

Thanks for the write up Ix. Most suprising to me was the obvious difference between the HD72 and the H78DC3 during pans and dithering. I was hopeful that the new DMD controller (3020) being used in the HD72 would improve upon the H78DC3. What DMD controller does the H78DC3 use? What else could account for a noticable difference?

I'm not entirely sure but as I said in my write up, that is probably the biggest difference I saw between the two, barring super-pro ISF adjustments.

Spiderman, for example, showed more motion artifacts during high speed scenes such as when Peter chases his uncles killer near the middle.

Spiderman, for example, showed more motion artifacts during high speed scenes such as when Peter chases his uncles killer near the middle.
Darn! Peter's uncle dies? :p

The next thing you're going to tell me is that Vader is Luke's father. :D

In all seriousness though, thanks for your amazing write-up. I've never seen such a thorough comparison between 3 PJs outside of a magazine shootout (or, for that matter, including magazine write-ups). You've done this forum a HUGE favour. :)

Thanks for the great review Ix. I just purchased the HD72 as an upgrade to my old (!) Sanyo PLV-Z2 based on your feedback, but if the lack of vertical lens shift or panning/dithering artifacts bother me enough I too will trade up to the H78DC3 - the price of the HD72 is pretty hard to beat for 768p DLP though.

I can't wait to see Vader in high gloss black again instead of dull grey black!

Ix - thanks for the informative (and entertaining!) review.

I agree with dum_71 - it's interesting that you saw more motion artifacts on the HD72 than the H78. I read another review (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7086061&&#post7086061) today comparing the H78 to the Mits HC3000 and the reviewer thought the H78 had less motion artifacts than the Mits. Both the HD72 and HC3000 use the new, supposedly better/faster DMD controller, so maybe that controller isn't as big a deal as people think it is.

I have to admit, I do find the H78 very tempting. My plan is to upgrade in around 5 months or so, when the dust has settled on these new projectors and perhaps even some discounting has occurred. I don't know if the H78 will still be available then (I believe it is EOL), but it will an interesting choice if it is. The new InFocus IN76 is still the front runner for me, and I've all but ruled out the HD72 for offset and other reasons, but the thought of getting a DC3 PJ for a not-exorbitant amount of additional money is enticing. It would not be as equally enticing to my wife however. ;)

Good luck with your H78, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Let us know when your bulb blows however. Just kidding! (I had to do that - it's the AVSForum after all, and it's our duty to give you a little bit of buyer's angst! :D)

Ix,
You are hereby appointed and bestowed the title of "THE REVIEWER SUPREME".
If only you could review and compare all pj's!
Outstanding and most excellent job!

Absolutely fabulous write up Ix! Yur da man!

Finally a very well written (disclaimer and all!) comparison between the HD72 and H78DC3, just what I was looking for!

You've pretty much covered everything I wanted to know, so just some questions regarding the dithering details;

About how close were you to the screen when observing the ditherings?

And about how far back from the screen did they disappear?

....and, how much further back did you have to be with the HD72 over the H78DC3 to make the dithering disappear?

Thanks again!

Fleaman

...Both the HD72 and HC3000 use the new, supposedly better/faster DMD controller, so maybe that controller isn't as big a deal as people think it is.

I'm guessing that a certain amount of marketing spin was developed in order to get folks to embrace a non-native 16:9 chip.

DLP needed to reduce costs in order to maintain the high margins they've become accustomed to, in light of ever increasing price pressure from LCD. Those reduced costs take the form of the 'universal' 16:10 DMD, and the new controller may be little more than a custom driver, necesitated by the dual function DMD. Whether it is truly improved has yet to be determined. It sure doesn't sound like BrilliantColor is all that it is hyped to be.

Ix - thanks for the informative (and entertaining!) review.

I agree with dum_71 - it's interesting that you saw more motion artifacts on the HD72 than the H78. I read another review (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7086061&&#post7086061) today comparing the H78 to the Mits HC3000 and the reviewer thought the H78 had less motion artifacts than the Mits. Both the HD72 and HC3000 use the new, supposedly better/faster DMD controller, so maybe that controller isn't as big a deal as people think it is.

I have to admit, I do find the H78 very tempting. My plan is to upgrade in around 5 months or so, when the dust has settled on these new projectors and perhaps even some discounting has occurred. I don't know if the H78 will still be available then (I believe it is EOL), but it will an interesting choice if it is. The new InFocus IN76 is still the front runner for me, and I've all but ruled out the HD72 for offset and other reasons, but the thought of getting a DC3 PJ for a not-exorbitant amount of additional money is enticing. It would not be as equally enticing to my wife however. ;)

Good luck with your H78, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Let us know when your bulb blows however. Just kidding! (I had to do that - it's the AVSForum after all, and it's our duty to give you a little bit of buyer's angst! :D)

I don't know a DMD from D&D except that one involves projectors and the other involves dragons and a pronounced lack of a social life. I do know that viewing both together makes the difference obvious.

That said I don't want to make HD72 owners or possible owners paraniod; it's something you really would have to look for, unless you are watching sports perhaps.

As for the bulb, I got a free one so neh! That means I'll get a combined 200 hours out of this PJ am I right?

Ix - thanks for the informative (and entertaining!) review.

I agree with dum_71 - it's interesting that you saw more motion artifacts on the HD72 than the H78. I read another review (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7086061&&#post7086061) today comparing the H78 to the Mits HC3000 and the reviewer thought the H78 had less motion artifacts than the Mits. Both the HD72 and HC3000 use the new, supposedly better/faster DMD controller, so maybe that controller isn't as big a deal as people think it is.



Well, considering the H78DC3 has those dark green segments to reduce dither, not to mention the DC3 chip/processor is pretty darn fast too, I can believe it. Well, especially now :)

The HD72 probably does have a faster DMD, compared to the older DC2 chip DMD's, but maybe it isn't is fast as the H78DC3, or maybe you really need those extra dark segments on the color wheel to smooth out those blacks....

Fleaman

Absolutely fabulous write up Ix! Yur da man!

Finally a very well written (disclaimer and all!) comparison between the HD72 and H78DC3, just what I was looking for!

You've pretty much covered everything I wanted to know, so just some questions regarding the dithering details;

About how close were you to the screen when observing the ditherings?

And about how far back from the screen did they disappear?

....and, how much further back did you have to be with the HD72 over the H78DC3 to make the dithering disappear?

Thanks again!

Fleaman

With the HD72 dithering gradually "melded" (I made that up) at about 1.2-1.5 screen width - I wasn't marking my steps off with a tape measure at the time, I save that for parties. If you sit at the 1.5 distance normally recommended it probably won't bother you unless you make a point of it. Of course if you are posting here you probably will make a point of it but that's life for you.

With the H78DC3 in order to see dithering in blacks I had to be about 3-4 nose lengths away, but I'm not going to share how big my nose is until we get to know each other better.

With the HD72 dithering gradually "melded" (I made that up) at about 1.2-1.5 screen width - I wasn't marking my steps off with a tape measure at the time, I save that for parties. If you sit at the 1.5 distance normally recommended it probably won't bother you unless you make a point of it. Of course if you are posting here you probably will make a point of it but that's life for you.

With the H78DC3 in order to see dithering in blacks I had to be about 3-4 nose lengths away, but I'm not going to share how big my nose is until we get to know each other better.

Excellent!

Thank you very much.

Fleaman

Ix,

I wanted the HD72 to win, but you thought the 78DC3 was better; therefore, you are a stupid cretin, not a superior human being :)!

Thanks for a great review! Greg

Screen: 100’ 16x9 DYI screen, ¼ inch MDF sprayed with Kilz2 white primer. This produces a flat white 1.0 gain image that doesn’t shift color. Owners of $3,000 Stewart Studiotek’s may begin screaming now. I also have screen fabric from Carada Screens – their Cinema Grey (0.8), Brilliant White (1.4) and regular (1.0). I’ll comment on those where applicable.

I also used an Optoma Greywolf 106’ pulldown screen, dark grey, 1.8 gain, with the AE900u but did not have it for this shootout. Stewart Studiotek owners may resume screaming now.
Wow, it's amazing you could see an image at all on those hundred foot screens. Didn't know these PJs were that bright!

:)

Just razzing ya -- Thanks for a GREAT evaluation!!

Updated my review for 100% more pictures (they are at the bottom).

Fixed Bigsmith's wagon but good by correcting usage of '' over ' indicating measurement.

Ix,

Did you use the H72 in a 1280x720 mode, or the full 768? If you use the full 768, what affect does it have on screen dimensions? If you mask off the extra 48 pixels , roughly how many inches were masked? I'm trying to decide what screen I'd use if I can make this PJ work in my room.

BTW, I laughed at your disclaimer harder than I have laughed at a post in a long time. Thanks!

Excellent review, Ix. I'm still holding out hope that others will contradict your finding regarding motion artifacts. I'm planning a dedicated home theater, and the HD72 was otherwise looking like the one (especially since I'll have a 10' ceiling and won't have to deal with the offset issue, other than through the pain of setting up the PJ).

Regardless, I appreciate the unbiased and detailed assessment.

I am about to get a projector and am on the fence between the HD72 and H78.

One concern I have with the H78 is the lack of HDMI input, I know there is a DVI to HDMI adaptor, but will DVI work for newer devices (ex HD DVD) or will you need an external switch for some of the newer technologies?

Also, I read where the HD72 accepts a 1080P input, will the H78?

Since the H78 is about a year old now (older if you consider the H79) I am concerned about getting a projector that wont work with a source device.

Ix,

Did you use the H72 in a 1280x720 mode, or the full 768? If you use the full 768, what affect does it have on screen dimensions? If you mask off the extra 48 pixels , roughly how many inches were masked? I'm trying to decide what screen I'd use if I can make this PJ work in my room.

BTW, I laughed at your disclaimer harder than I have laughed at a post in a long time. Thanks!


I didn't really square the thing up to be honest, but between the two I noticed about a half inch or so all around, subjectively. I no longer have the HD72 so someone who does could probably answer better.

I am about to get a projector and am on the fence between the HD72 and H78.

One concern I have with the H78 is the lack of HDMI input, I know there is a DVI to HDMI adaptor, but will DVI work for newer devices (ex HD DVD) or will you need an external switch for some of the newer technologies?

Also, I read where the HD72 accepts a 1080P input, will the H78?

Since the H78 is about a year old now (older if you consider the H79) I am concerned about getting a projector that wont work with a source device.


It's a HDCP compliant DVI input so it should work just fine. I'm not positive about accepting 1080p but I imagine it would; what's the purpose of a 720p projector taking 1080p? Being able to downscale native?

Excellent review, Ix. I'm still holding out hope that others will contradict your finding regarding motion artifacts. I'm planning a dedicated home theater, and the HD72 was otherwise looking like the one (especially since I'll have a 10' ceiling and won't have to deal with the offset issue, other than through the pain of setting up the PJ).

Regardless, I appreciate the unbiased and detailed assessment.

I really, really wouldn't sweat it. Just because I thought the H78DC3 was better doesn't mean I hated the HD72. The H78DC3 is also called Ix's $1400 optical lens shift around the lair because if the HD72 had it I never would have bothered to look.

You probably aren't going to care about whatever artifacts it does have, trust me.

Spiderman, for example, showed more motion artifacts during high speed scenes such as when Peter chases his uncles killer near the middle.

Ix - thanks for your fantastic review.

Could you expand a bit on the motion artifacts you see on the HD72? The temporal dithering I've been bothered by most is pans, typically with darker colors. On an HD2 pj these can get kind of an "oil-painting" or reduced bit-depth (painted with just too few shades in motion) effect. Are you seeing something similar to this or something completely different?

Dear Ix, Thanks for a great review and comparison! Really nice reviews and comments, from the user's point of view, and covers many areas.

HD72 viewing alone is a great little projector for the price, as you have tested it against AE900, a very good LCD by itself. The DDP3020 controller does make the rainbow effect even less, so for those who are sensitive to DLP rainbow, you might want to look at the DDP3020-driven models again (like HC3000 and HD72). For Ix and others who are not sensitive to rainbow, DDP3020 is still pretty darn good for faster loading nontheless.

But, "how black can black be?", well, Ix answers that for us, with the luxury of having all three projectors shooting-out, LCD vs. DLP DC2 vs. DLP DC3. HD72 shows better black than LCD, its black is so good that some are questioning how much blacker can it be? DC3 takes it even further, and you won't know the differences until you see them side by side. But physical technology steps in that a DC3 DMD is, in my view, still the king of black level and contrast. But HD72 owners should not be worry too much, by itself, HD72 stands tall in terms of cost and performance.

For those that are thinking of H78DC3 or are worry about its availability, Optoma is rolling out a new DC3 model, HD7300, with a separate Gennum processing box, that should fill the seats where H78DC3 and H79 leave out. For those that have a tight budget, you can include HD72 in your shopping list and do check it out!

For those happy owners of AE900 and LCD, don't panic, as long as you are satisfied with its performance now (image is very subjective), just don't look into the new projectors, rent more DVDs and enjoy the movies!! (until the upgrade bug bites again ...) :)

Dear Ix, Thanks for a great review and comparison! Really nice reviews and comments, from the user's point of view, and covers many areas.

HD72 viewing alone is a great little projector for the price, as you have tested it against AE900, a very good LCD by itself. The DDP3020 controller does make the rainbow effect even less, so for those who are sensitive to DLP rainbow, you might want to look at the DDP3020-driven models again (like HC3000 and HD72). For Ix and others who are not sensitive to rainbow, DDP3020 is still pretty darn good for faster loading nontheless.

But, "how black can black be?", well, Ix answers that for us, with the luxury of having all three projectors shooting-out, LCD vs. DLP DC2 vs. DLP DC3. HD72 shows better black than LCD, its black is so good that some are questioning how much blacker can it be? DC3 takes it even further, and you won't know the differences until you see them side by side. But physical technology steps in that a DC3 DMD is, in my view, still the king of black level and contrast. But HD72 owners should not be worry too much, by itself, HD72 stands tall in terms of cost and performance.

For those that are thinking of H78DC3 or are worry about its availability, Optoma is rolling out a new DC3 model, HD7300, with a separate Gennum processing box, that should fill the seats where H78DC3 and H79 leave out. For those that have a tight budget, you can include HD72 in your shopping list and do check it out!

For those happy owners of AE900 and LCD, don't panic, as long as you are satisfied with its performance now (image is very subjective), just don't look into the new projectors, rent more DVDs and enjoy the movies!! (until the upgrade bug bites again ...) :)

Thanks Tzung. Now send me free Optoma loot!! :)

Can you answer the question above, re: the H78DC3 accepting 1080p signals like the HD72 will? I really have no idea.

Tzung,
I know you are probably limited as to what you can say about the HD7300 at this point.

I know it is scheduled for 2nd quarter rollout, can you comment on if it is likely to be early or late 2nd quarter?

Also, can you give any ballpark on expected street pricing (even within $1000 might help me with my decision)?

Thanks for posting pictures; hope to see more by others that demonstrate BrilliantColor technology ranges/effects and brightness.
As for my Chow Hall set up; I do control the lights and the projector is for cinema. AFN TV quality is so poor that HD will not be an issue. No Way on Mitsu had several of their products through the years and never had a quality product from them (seemed to always fail): not a good choice for a harsh environment like Iraq see more dead or almost dead Mitsu products at the different MWRs than any other brand. I have used several Optoma products in Iraq never a failure (sold one with 2400+ hours current H31 has 1800 hours). Appreciate the reply and suggestion, but I do contol light where I only have limited lighting in the background. Finally you just do not do good cinema with the high lumes, current technology is such that high lumes are not an option if you want to do cinema and good HD.
Just got news my HD72 shipped so probably 2 weeks to get here.

If you use the full 768, what affect does it have on screen dimensions? If you mask off the extra 48 pixels , roughly how many inches were masked? I'm trying to decide what screen I'd use if I can make this PJ work in my room.
How many inches that are masked is going to depend on your screen size. 48 pixels equals 6.25% of the image height on a 1280x768 projector. To figure it out, just multiply your screen height by .0625 and then divide by 2 to figure out how much on top and bottom you'll need to mask. So, here's an example:

Screen size: 47" high (96" diagonal)
48 Pixels Height: 2.94"
Amount masked on each side: 1.47"

And another:

Screen size: 59" high (120" diagonal)
48 Pixels Height: 3.68"
Amount masked on each side: 1.84"

Yes, H78DC3/H79 both can accept 1080p signal. I've tested it some time ago using the Gennum processor box outputing 1080p 60Hz.

And yes again, I better not say too much, and leave it up to the marketing people (hey, they have their jobs!) Let me say what is known already, HD7300 was announced at CES, deomed on the last day of CES, and MSRP $6000. H79 MSRP was $9999! Counting the addition of Gennum processing scalar box, HD7300 has dual lens shift, same DC3 chip, I think the MSRP looks O.K. ;)

Availability, I'll leave it to the front sales. Once it's ready, I'll discuss more of its design and unique features. Sorry.

thanks for the reviews people. with rebates & special offers on the H78 i'm quite tempted to spring the extra $$$ for that.

aside from the offset that requires keystoning for my setup, i'm very annoyed by motion artifacts and i'm not liking the reports on that.

Yes, H78DC3/H79 both can accept 1080p signal. I've tested it some time ago using the Gennum processor box outputing 1080p 60Hz.

And yes again, I better not say too much, and leave it up to the marketing people (hey, they have their jobs!) Let me say what is known already, HD7300 was announced at CES, deomed on the last day of CES, and MSRP $6000. H79 MSRP was $9999! Counting the addition of Gennum processing scalar box, HD7300 has dual lens shift, same DC3 chip, I think the MSRP looks O.K. ;)

Availability, I'll leave it to the front sales. Once it's ready, I'll discuss more of its design and unique features. Sorry.

TzungILin..........

Still waiting for you to start that HD7300 thread........ :D

So far it sounds like a very interesting projector...

I have seen and like the H78/79, but I would like more light output to illuminate a larger screen... (120"+... maybe 133" whoopee). Can you give us any idea of what the lumen output of the HD7300 will be once it is calibrated?

Ix, thank a ton for the review and pictures -- much appreciated, enjoy your new toy.

For those of you who have this PJ ceiling mounted, can you please comment on what mount you used. I checked HD72 manual and connection holes are located so close together (80mm=3.2") that I am having trouble finding a universal mount for it. All of the mounts I looked at have the base that is bigger then 3.2" and with arms extending I really don't see how they can match.

Thanks, Davie.

TzungILin..........

Still waiting for you to start that HD7300 thread........ :D

So far it sounds like a very interesting projector...

I have seen and like the H78/79, but I would like more light output to illuminate a larger screen... (120"+... maybe 133" whoopee). Can you give us any idea of what the lumen output of the HD7300 will be once it is calibrated?

HiHoStevo, according to PJCentral ANSI lumen rating is 1000 and contrast is 6000:1.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ces_2006.htm

Davie.

HiHoStevo, according to PJCentral ANSI lumen rating is 1000 and contrast is 6000:1.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ces_2006.htm

Davie.

Yes, but there can "often" be a large difference between "advertised" lumens and "calibrated" lumens. :eek:

I believe my BenQ 8700+ also advertises 1000 lumens... but when calibrated to D65 it actually puts out around 300!

That was a very nice review Ix. Just wondering...any chance you might compare the Infocus IN76 when it becomes available? The IN76 seems very interesting to me (and I'm sure others as well), since it uses the new 1280 x 768 DC2 chip, but has the 24 rows above and below the middle 720 permanently turned off and uses the older DDP1010 controller. It also doesn't have BrilliantColor - but I'm not worried about that at all, since BrilliantColor seems like a gimmick to me.

The much smaller 15.59% lens offset certainly would work better for me than the large offset on the Optoma HD72, and I'm curious if the 6 segment (RGB-RGB) wheel on the IN76 may help at all with the dithering vs. the 7 segment wheel used in the Optoma with the white segment.

For what people have been saying about the motion artifacts...any chance it's the scaler/de-interlacer and not the DMD controller chip? I just figured the new Pixelworks de-interlacer/scaler being used may be responsible rather than the DDP3020 chip. If that's the case, then the Infocus IN76 isn't likely to be any better since it uses the Pixelworks chip.

Anywho...just a thought :)

Jon

For those that are thinking of H78DC3 or are worry about its availability, Optoma is rolling out a new DC3 model, HD7300, with a separate Gennum processing box, that should fill the seats where H78DC3 and H79 leave out.

So it's possible that Optoma might drop the H78DC3 and only leave us with the more expensive HD7300 to choose from?

Fleaman

Ix, thank a ton for the review and pictures -- much appreciated, enjoy your new toy.

For those of you who have this PJ ceiling mounted, can you please comment on what mount you used. I checked HD72 manual and connection holes are located so close together (80mm=3.2") that I am having trouble finding a universal mount for it. All of the mounts I looked at have the base that is bigger then 3.2" and with arms extending I really don't see how they can match.

Thanks, Davie.



A few posts back I talk about ceiling mounting the HD72. It's a real pain in the rear, but the Chief RPA series WILL work if you:

Raise the adjustable mounting feet fully up.

Remove the adjustable mounting feet entirely (the "direct mount" as they call it in their booklet). If you go with this way you will have to go to Home Depot and pick up some longer M3 screws; actually the HD near me didn't have any but Lowes did.

In any case it works, it's just a real pain. Also consider getting Chief's LS-100 horizontal shift accessory for $35, it will make getting the PJ dialed in much easier.


So it's possible that Optoma might drop the H78DC3 and only leave us with the more expensive HD7300 to choose from?

Fleaman

I've heard for the past two months that they have ALREADY dropped it:) I don't believe it is being made anymore although I could be wrong.

Get it now while it's hot :)

So it's possible that Optoma might drop the H78DC3 and only leave us with the more expensive HD7300 to choose from?

Fleaman

Ix is correct. The H78DC3 was discontinued late last year. The product is still available, but no more units are being produced.

Ix is correct. The H78DC3 was discontinued late last year. The product is still available, but no more units are being produced.

OMG :eek:

They already dropped it and currently have nothing to take it's place except a much more expensive HD7300 that's not even out yet?

Now that would get me saying; "What was Optoma thinking?"


TzungILin, is there any other mid-line PJ that Optoma has in the works, or is there gonna be a big hole in this area?

Fleaman

I really, really wouldn't sweat it. Just because I thought the H78DC3 was better doesn't mean I hated the HD72. The H78DC3 is also called Ix's $1400 optical lens shift around the lair because if the HD72 had it I never would have bothered to look.

You probably aren't going to care about whatever artifacts it does have, trust me.


I appreciate your input. That answered my real question, which is "if it weren't for the lens shift issue, would you still have opted for the H78 after seeing them side by side" and it sounds like you would have been content with the HD72 at the lower price.

That's all I needed to know, so the HD72 will remain my choice (for now, of course--since the PJ will be the last thing I buy, who knows what will be released in the interim!)

I appreciate your input. That answered my real question, which is "if it weren't for the lens shift issue, would you still have opted for the H78 after seeing them side by side" and it sounds like you would have been content with the HD72 at the lower price.

That's all I needed to know, so the HD72 will remain my choice (for now, of course--since the PJ will be the last thing I buy, who knows what will be released in the interim!)


Yes, if the HD72 had worked in my room without having to tilt it up +20 degrees I would have kept it and been none the wiser. I'd be in this thread making fun of H78DC3 owners right now.

As it happens the H78DC3 does have a better picture, but I still like to think of it as my $1400 lens shift accessory because that's how I roll.

Cheers Ix for the excellent write-up. Made for a great read, and nice to see a bit of ol' honesty, modesty and humour thrown in for good measure :) Also think your comparison serves as a perfect example of the varying degrees of manufacturers pricing and why it exists, basically. Simply - you get what you pay for as the results show. I'd just like to chime in with a few questions and observations re. the HD72 if I may.

Despite the expected plus points the DC3 evidently holds over the new TI chip in the HD72, I'm still set on the latter when they land over here in the UK as it's all my budget just about stretches to. But a few things concern from your review and, in particular, the screengrabs. You mention the artificial 'cartoony' look the Brilliant Colour lends to the HD72's colours, something I've never been too keen on. Although you pretty much say this can be addressed by turning off (or down) with your "With BrilliantColor off it was hard for me to tell the difference between it and the AE900u other than contrast", can you just confirm that it is the case? I know photos of these things in action are always just to give no more than a general impression, but the colours and white balance on the HD72 grabs just look plain wrong in comparison to the H78 and AE900. The best example being the Spiderman grabs :-

HD72
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0973.JPG

H78
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0903.JPG

AE900
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0891.JPG

Popping those 3 up side-by-side and the difference in image the HD72 is putting out is not a pretty sight. The contrast and colours are way, way out of whack to put it bluntly. Just look at the blue balloon at the back - very nasty scorching of the light source leading to detail loss aplenty. Same re. pretty much any white or near white areas of the scene, where as the H78 and AE900 render those areas with much more subtlety and detail resolve. The colours in general are also clearly inaccurate on the HD72 rendition. Were the HD72 photos taken with BC on, then? I just hope the white bleaching isn't an offset of the extra white/clear segment on the colour wheel, and no amount of tweaking can calibrate it out...

Damian.

Well everyone I FINALLY found my digital camera and took some screenshots last night. It was pretty late when I was done so I didn't get a chance to post them but I'll post them when I get back from work tonight, which will be around 9PM pacific time. Any suggestions on a quality, free picture hosting site I can put them on?

You mention the artificial 'cartoony' look the Brilliant Colour lends to the HD72's colours, something I've never been too keen on. Although you pretty much say this can be addressed by turning off (or down) with your "With BrilliantColor off it was hard for me to tell the difference between it and the AE900u other than contrast", can you just confirm that it is the case?
I took an identical screenshot with BrilliantColor OFF, on setting 5, and on setting 10 and I'll post those tonight to give you an idea of what it does. My wife and I both like it on setting 3 or 4 and I would disagree that it is "gimmicky" as someone else noted. I think it's a great feature, actually, and it's nice to be able to choose how much BrilliantColor you want to use from 0-10.

Well everyone I FINALLY found my digital camera and took some screenshots last night. It was pretty late when I was done so I didn't get a chance to post them but I'll post them when I get back from work tonight, which will be around 9PM pacific time. Any suggestions on a quality, free picture hosting site I can put them on?

Here's the one I used to post screenshots from CES of HD72's big bro HD81

http://www.imagethrust.com/

HD81 Screenshot

http://i43.imagethrust.com/images/OVt/view-image/cespics2006day1and2064.html

Yes, if the HD72 had worked in my room without having to tilt it up +20 degrees I would have kept it and been none the wiser. I'd be in this thread making fun of H78DC3 owners right now.

Actually in order to achieve 0 offset on HD72 you'll need to tilt it up only 6.52 degrees :) Tilting it 3.5 degrees will give you same offset as upcoming IN76 (about 15%).

Talking about the tilt. This Chief RPA mount that you used to mount 72 has this feature, right ? Can it be tilted up or only down. I see from their instruction manual that it has what the called roll (and what we call tilt) but I am not sure if it goes up and down (I am obviously interested in up). Just want to keep my options open in case I want to go for a bigger screen (>110").

Do you happen to remember the length of M3 screw you ended up getting from Lowes, want to save myself a trip. Also did you have to drill any holes in mounting bracket or the ones they have (once you removed the arms) worked fine ?

Thanks again for your help ! Davie.

The Peerless Spyder Universal Mount works for the HD72 just fine. You can only use 3 of the 4 mounting holes due to the small area that the 4 mounting holes are located in, but it's plenty secure. It has roll and tilt adjustments that work really well.

Davie I think you are describing "pitch" which is the vertical up and down of the front lens, "roll" would be tilting to the left or right, and "yaw" would be swinging the lens left or right in the horizontal plane....

Applebuddy........

You must be hanging around the Hayden or CDA area..... can you take a screen shot with the BC at #3 as that is the one TzungILin was recommending?

Popping those 3 up side-by-side and the difference in image the HD72 is putting out is not a pretty sight. The contrast and colours are way, way out of whack to put it bluntly. Just look at the blue balloon at the back - very nasty scorching of the light source leading to detail loss aplenty. Same re. pretty much any white or near white areas of the scene, where as the H78 and AE900 render those areas with much more subtlety and detail resolve. The colours in general are also clearly inaccurate on the HD72 rendition. Were the HD72 photos taken with BC on, then? I just hope the white bleaching isn't an offset of the extra white/clear segment on the colour wheel, and no amount of tweaking can calibrate it out...

Damian.


Well, first, let us not discount the possibility that I may be an idiot and screwed something up. Never take myself out of the running for that prize, is my motto.

I did calibrate the color with Avia and a blue filter, but here's the thing: There are no color and tint adjustments for the HD72 when using the HDMI or DVI inputs. You only get those when using the Component inputs (and SVideo/Composite). You can go in to the "advanced" menu and tweak RGB gamma, brightness, etc, but from what I understand that is really only to tune greyscale with fancypants color analyser. Basically, using the HDMI or DVI your only color options are the BrillantColor levels.

This presented a problem because when viewing via Avia and the filter the color balance appeared way off - the blue backgrounds don't even come close to matching the squares in the test, and the flashing of the squares is pronounced. With the AE900u and the H78DC3 it was trivial to fix this but not with the HD72, which may account for the difference you see in the shots. I did adjust and re-adjust contrast and brightness in the moving backgrounds tests, so those should be close. Same goes for Sharpness.

You can also tune the source if you have the option, in my case the Oppo DVD player does, but from what I understand that is not a desirable option.

I didn't think to take pics of BrillantColor on and off before I returned the unit, so we'll have to wait until myapplebuddy posts his pics to get the real story here.

Anyway yes, color did look unnatural out of the box to me, and I am a certified amateur videophile wannabe so that's probably a true statement. I'm not saying it looks "bad". In fact, at first look it appears "good", or "better" or whatever other subjective adjective you wish to use, take your pick. Only when subjected to the highly trained eye of the video ninja does one begin to see the problem, as the screenshots above demonstrate.

Fixed Bigsmith's wagon but good by correcting usage of '' over ' indicating measurement.

Yeah, but your Greywolf is still rather massive!!

Davie I think you are describing "pitch" which is the vertical up and down of the front lens, "roll" would be tilting to the left or right, and "yaw" would be swinging the lens left or right in the horizontal plane....

HiHoStevo, you are right -- looking more closely in the manual I see that pitch is the one I am interested in -- they just threw me off by their Roll Adjustment description on Chief web site:

"Roll Adjustment:
+/- 4 degrees adjustment up or down. Loosen screw, adjust mount and tighten screw to hold adjustment."

I can also see that this mount has 25 degree pitch on either side -- so it should be good enough to remove 6.52 degrees offset of HD72 should I want to have 0 offset PJ.

Davie.

Actually in order to achieve 0 offset on HD72 you'll need to tilt it up only 6.52 degrees :) Tilting it 3.5 degrees will give you same offset as upcoming IN76 (about 15%).

Talking about the tilt. This Chief RPA mount that you used to mount 72 has this feature, right ? Can it be tilted up or only down. I see from their instruction manual that it has what the called roll (and what we call tilt) but I am not sure if it goes up and down (I am obviously interested in up). Just want to keep my options open in case I want to go for a bigger screen (>110").

Do you happen to remember the length of M3 screw you ended up getting from Lowes, want to save myself a trip. Also did you have to drill any holes in mounting bracket or the ones they have (once you removed the arms) worked fine ?

Thanks again for your help ! Davie.

I used the Chief Universal Mount and didn't remove the arms and used all four holes and raised the arms for ventilation just fine. And its a white mount to boot so it matches up fairly nicely with the HD72.

Ix......

I have never owned an Optoma product, but I have been skulking around the Optoma threads for a while...

I seem to recall Tom and others talking about using the RGB gains (and offsets?) to adjust the color on the DVI input. For some reason Optoma chose to make those selections more difficult to get to and adjust.

Ix...You are a complete cretin for not using HDMI :)

All kidding aside, I got an all HDMI solution with 10bit DVD (79avi) and DLP projector that boasts 10 bit...just so I could reduce dithering/contouring...and I think it helps a lot. I didn't notice as much dithering when I play movies but I do notice it more on HD signals over component (like Superbowl). Your reviews are awesome...but I still think that lack of HDMI is a big oversight here (which doesn't use the HD72 to it's fullest potential).

Ix...You are a complete cretin for not using HDMI :)

All kidding aside, I got an all HDMI solution with 10bit DVD (79avi) and DLP projector that boasts 10 bit...just so I could reduce dithering/contouring...and I think it helps a lot. I didn't notice this as much when I play movies but I do notice it more on HD signals over component (like Superbowl). Your reviews are awesome...but I still think that lack of HDMI is a big oversight here (which doesn't use the HD72 to it's fullest potential).


Huh? The most motion artifacts/etc I saw on the HD72 were during the Superbowl going straight HDMI; the Oppo DVD player is where I went DVI-HDMI.

I'm no expert but I play one on TV, also I sure do read a lot here and all I've seen about the whole 10-bit thing reducing dithering, etc is a bunch of speculation.

Look, the HD72 is a great projector. Even with it's stupid offset (and it is stupid - 27% even wasn't good enough? It had to be 37%? What, so people with high ceilings could cut a foot or two off a pole?). Even with it's weak remote. Even with dumb color management controls. It still looks good because it has good contrast and nice black levels. Not great, not perfect, but for a $2000 projector they are hard to beat. If you can work with it, great, go for it. My wallet sure wishes I had. And it gets worse - you would not BELIEVE what I have to buy my wife for Valentines Day now that I spent an extra grand and a half on a stupid projector.

Stop stressing so much about it and worrying about 10 bit and BrilliantColor steps and whether it will look as close as possible to the next level of DLP projectors. It'll never be perfect. There are people here on this forum who turn their noses down at 3 chip DLP and will talk about how bad it is until your ears bleed. Be happy with the HD72 or be prepared to spend a lot more money. I think at this point I have a little weight behind that statement because that is exactly what I did; I really put my money where my mouth is.

I have to run now, go to the jewelry store and look at earrings. That's the real price of my H78DC3, I tell you what.

My HD72 arrived today. I am trying to the mount the projector using the Chief RPA-U universal mount. I cannot seem to figure how the RPA-U unit mounts to the projector. Please HELP ME figure this out.

My HD72 arrived today. I am trying to the mount the projector using the Chief RPA-U universal mount. I cannot seem to figure how the RPA-U unit mounts to the projector. Please HELP ME figure this out.

Welcome to the Fun House my friend.

The easy way - see those adjustable feet? The ones screwed in to the ends of the arms? Loosen the screws and extend them. Now you've got clearance UNDER the mount.

From there position the arms - at least one will be underneath the mount, in the middle, hence the extension. You add height this way which is bad if you have low ceilings but if you are at 9 feet or higher you will be ok.

Make SURE you square the thing off! It is a total pain in the rear, I know. Use a ruler and measure the distance between each point until you get it square. Trust me you want to do this. The mount does have some adjustable "tweaking" points once you get it up but the squarer you have it going on (and the squarer it is on your ceiling, of course) the easier it will be to adjust once mounted.

You may very much wish to consider the LS-100 Lateral Mount adapter for the RPA as it will make putting the actual mount on the ceiling 1000x easier. Viola! Poor Man's horizontal lens shift :)

If you followed my advice and order from Ross at ProjectorPeople you can call him back and tell him you want the same mount shift that Geoff got. They drop ship it right from Chief and it got to me in one day. If you didn't follow my advice then shame on you Pilgrim :)

Ix,

Just wanted to give you a quick thanks for your amusing reviews.

I must confess the HD72 didn't impress me much at CES but that was primarily by comparison with the nearby HD81. The offset issues preclude me buying it anyway with my 7 1/2 foot ceiling.

The search for the perfect $2000 dollar projector continues!

Hey Robert......

One that nobody has talked much about... I don't know the offset, but it is using the same chipset... did you see the Yamaha DPX-830 while you were at CES?

Of course they are asking a "Yamaha" style price for it..., but who knows where it will street.

Huh? The most motion artifacts/etc I saw on the HD72 were during the Superbowl going straight HDMI; the Oppo DVD player is where I went DVI-HDMI.

.

Before you said that it was because you were using keystone during the superbowl, then you said it was the projector itself during your review, now you're saying it was the HDMI input! Which one is it?

Before you said that it was because you were using keystone during the superbowl, then you said it was the projector itself during your review, now you're saying it was the HDMI input! Which one is it?
HDMI and DVI/HDCP compliant are the same as far as video. I know some of you guys want a sub $2k PJ to outperform the H78DC3/H79 but obviously it ain't happening... YET

No need to be so defensive about the H72. It has warts like every other PJ made.

Before you said that it was because you were using keystone during the superbowl, then you said it was the projector itself during your review, now you're saying it was the HDMI input! Which one is it?


Um, I wasn't stating that the HDMI input "caused" the artifacts, just that I still noticed them "with" it. It has nothing to do with my previous statement; here I was just responding to the question about whether 10 bit made a difference. I still don't know and I'm not claiming either way, just pointing out my observation. Re-read the disclaimer in my shootout:)

As I recall, which isn't hard since all I have to do is go back several posts and re-read what I wrote, I suspected keystoning during the Superbowl. It was only later, when I did the "shootout" and put it up against the other projectors, that I noticed that it occured during DVD's as well, and only really stood out by comparison.

You will probably be able to pick apart what I've written and find contradictions if you try hard enough but this isn't one of them :) :)

Hey Robert......

One that nobody has talked much about... I don't know the offset, but it is using the same chipset... did you see the Yamaha DPX-830 while you were at CES?

Of course they are asking a "Yamaha" style price for it..., but who knows where it will street.


Yeah, the Yamaha was one of the more impressive one's I saw. I liked it as much as the LG AN110. It was quite pricey though!

OK, so here's some of my screenshots. These are the first ones I've ever done so I apologize if they aren't perfect. I just paused my DVR on some HD stuff last night and here's what I came up with:

Grammys 1 (http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6721/img00901zj.jpg)
Grammys 2 (http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6346/img00943ge.jpg)
The One & Only Oprah (http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/9020/img01015cb.jpg)
Some Other Guy (http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/4746/img01039ef.jpg)
Letterman 1 (http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/9452/img01181lq.jpg)
Letterman 2 (Rupert) (http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/9863/img01288mp.jpg)

It seems like one thing after another!! Imageshack (the picture hosting site) is now DOWN! I was about to post the BrilliantColor shots but apparently the site shuts off at exactly 11:00 PM Pacific Time or something! :mad:

Anyways, one disclaimer: my digital camera didn't do justice to the picture I was seeing on all of these shots. On top of this, imageshack further deteriorated the pictures from what they should look like. I may try that other site that stopdog recommended, but for now this is the best I can do.

Applebuddy........

You must be hanging around the Hayden or CDA area..... can you take a screen shot with the BC at #3 as that is the one TzungILin was recommending?
Yes, as a matter of fact I do live in Hayden! It's nice to know someone else on these boards knows where that is! I'll post the BC shots tonight as soon as imageshack comes back online. FYI all of my screenshots were taken with BC on setting 3. I can post some comparison shots with BC at 0,3,5,7, and 10 though.

OK, so here's some of my screenshots. These are the first ones I've ever done so I apologize if they aren't perfect. I just paused my DVR on some HD stuff last night and here's what I came up with

Myapplebuddy, those shots are spectacular -- I am sold, I believe you mentioned you use Carada Brilliant White Screen ?

Thanks for pics, Davie.

I believe you mentioned you use Carada Brilliant White Screen?
Yup, I use a 96" Carada Brilliant White "Criterion" Screen. I think there are two main differences between their "Precision" screens and the "Criterion" screens. The first is that the Criterion frame is 1 1/4" thicker on all sides.

The second thing that's different on the Criterion frame: (this is straight from Carada's website): "the viewing surface comes in direct contact with the beveled edge of the frame so there's no gap at all between the frame and the viewing surface."

My dad has a Precision Carada Screen and I like the look of mine a lot more because of the frame improvements. On the other hand, if space is an issue, I think the Criterion frames will add 2 1/2" of height and width to your screen dimensions.

The Carada screen, similar to the HD72, represents an outstanding value for what you get.

OK, imageshack is working again so here's the BrilliantColor comparison shots. I'll probably do a few more of these soon just to give more examples of what BC does on various material. I set my camera to expose the exact same amount of time on all three shots so it's a fair comparison.

Brilliant Color OFF (http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5376/img01437ct.jpg)
Brilliant Color SETTING 5 (http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/615/img01444ij.jpg)
Brilliant Color SETTING 10 (http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/1029/img01457cw.jpg)

nice pics man :)

And I am on the verge of getting a Carada BW for my upcoming Benq 8720 purchase. Hope I won't be dissapointed :)

Excellent.

tnx!

-Ric

And I am on the verge of getting a Carada BW for my upcoming Benq 8720 purchase. Hope I won't be dissapointed :)
You won't be. I read a while back that someone did a head to head with a Carada Brilliant White and the Stewart Studiotek 130 and they could basically tell no difference between the 2. The build quality, ease of construction, and especially the price is really amazing for Carada screens.

@ myapplebuddy

Looks to me that BrilliantColor does add quite a bit of pop to the image. I can see where over time as your bulb ages you may want higher settings of BC. I would be tempted to use higher settings for dark movies also.

It is one of those features where "it is better to have one and not need it than to not have one and need it."

k

Stop stressing so much about it and worrying about 10 bit and BrilliantColor steps and whether it will look as close as possible to the next level of DLP projectors. It'll never be perfect.

What are you talking about, it is perfect...it is just MPEG compression that is lousy :D .

FWIW, I think that the HD72 or Mitsubishi 3000 both offer projectors that would have cost $7000-10000 three years ago when I bought my X1 for $1000. And, if we are bringing the "next level" into the equation...I venture that these two are as good or better than IF 7210 right now (for less than 1/2 the cost). I can't defend against the upper tier Optomas, but lumens have a big factor in my decision (along with CR)...and these two are way better for when the kids are doing their homework and Mom and Dad are watching American Idol with some overhead lighting ;)

By the way, I just watched The Corpse Bride last night and it looks vibrant and dark all at the same time...that is the true test of CR.

It may just be my monitor, buy myapplebuddy's pictures of the brilliantcolor 0, +5, +10 looked like there was a bit of loss in the detail of the chefs jacket. what do you think?

I have to run now, go to the jewelry store and look at earrings. That's the real price of my H78DC3, I tell you what.


LOL....I hear ya man. I was fortunate in that my wife spent a bundle during the past year on trips she went on by herself, while I stayed home and earned the bacon, so my new PJ is MY "get even" discretionary purchase. It's nice to turn the tables for a change!

Ix or myapplebuddy,

Sorry if this has been asked before....this post is growing at least a page a day it seems :)

How well does the new Optima cover handle light leakage?

If a celing mounted HD72 is in front of your seating can you any light leakage from the unit?

I'm going between this and the IN76 though the wait on that is killing me...

I was working with some rough numbers and I may or may not be sitting behind the unit (I'm not very good with projector numbers lol)

My current unit is celing mounted about 22 feet back (PJ Lens), 8ft 9in high (bottom of PJ). I want to use the full 133" screen I have if possible and bottom of my screen is 24" from the floor. It looks like I have a room that can handle this projector without too many problem but I have a feeling I'll need to move this projector closer to the screen since 22 feet is pretty far back.

It may just be my monitor, buy myapplebuddy's pictures of the brilliantcolor 0, +5, +10 looked like there was a bit of loss in the detail of the chefs jacket. what do you think?
Like I mentioned, my digital camera combined with imageshack's picture hosting might be the culprit. I can tell you that in person I don't notice loss of detail when using BC, the biggest issue with it is that colors do start to look cartoonish when you get towards setting 10. The picture I used to demonstrate doesn't show this, but I'll try to post a few others that do. I actually now use setting 4, which at this stage in the bulb life adds a pefect amount of pop to the image. Out of the box BC is set to 3 so I think the designers basically agree with myself and others who have said their favorite setting is 3. All the pictures I posted have a loss of detail when compared to what you see in "real life", so it probably isn't the best thing judge loss of detail solely on those pictures I posted. I'll post some more BC comparison shots after it gets dark tonight because I don't have a light controlled room.

How well does the new Optima cover handle light leakage?

If a celing mounted HD72 is in front of your seating can you any light leakage from the unit?
Are you asking if there's enough light leakage to be seen on nearby walls, or are you asking that if you're looking through the rear vent on the HD72 if you'll see some light from inside? If it's the first question, then no there's no light leakage from what I can see. If it's the second question then I'll check for you when I get my ladder back out today to do a slight reposition of my HD72. I think that all Optoma projectors now have the "sealed light path" design, which means you don't have to change any air filters. I think it also means there's no light leakage, but I'm not sure and there's too much light in my room right now to be able to tell for sure.

My current unit is celing mounted about 22 feet back (PJ Lens), 8ft 9in high (bottom of PJ). I want to use the full 133" screen I have if possible and bottom of my screen is 24" from the floor. It looks like I have a room that can handle this projector without too many problem but I have a feeling I'll need to move this projector closer to the screen since 22 feet is pretty far back.

According to the calculator on Projector Central's website for a 133" image the projector can be mounted from 15.3' to 18.4' from the screen.

I received and hooked up my HD72 projector last night. I am having a hard time getting the color/contrast/brightness, etc. correct. I am using my Oppo DVD player and the picture is good, but I feel it can be much better with a few tweaks here and there. Can someone post some user settings that has worked for them and recommend how I can calibrate the projector.

My current unit is celing mounted about 22 feet back (PJ Lens), 8ft 9in high (bottom of PJ). I want to use the full 133" screen I have if possible and bottom of my screen is 24" from the floor. It looks like I have a room that can handle this projector without too many problem but I have a feeling I'll need to move this projector closer to the screen since 22 feet is pretty far back.

If you mount HD72 on same height, then center of lens is 8'11" (107"). Max distance you can mount is 18'4".

Height of you screen is 65" (I wish I could do the same) which will create offset of 20.8".

107 - 65 - 20.8 = 21.2" is the distance from floor to the bottom of the screen. A llitle bit off your 24" target, so you need to find the way to mount your PJ 3 inches higher (if ceiling allows) or move your screen 3" lower.

HTH, Davie

I received and hooked up my HD72 projector last night. I am having a hard time getting the color/contrast/brightness, etc. correct. I am using my Oppo DVD player and the picture is good, but I feel it can be much better with a few tweaks here and there. Can someone post some user settings that has worked for them and recommend how I can calibrate the projector.

Greetings,

I'm unboxing tonight, the HD72 review unit I received a few days ago. I still have my calibration software/hardware up, as I am just finishing a review of the Sony HS51A.

So, when I fire up the HD72, I'll take a quick look at the color balance, and do a one pass calibration. That should get some basic settings for you to try. If not posted tonight (probably not) then by tomorrow night.

The review itself won't be done and posted on my site, until probably next Wed - Thursday. -art

I received and hooked up my HD72 projector last night. I am having a hard time getting the color/contrast/brightness, etc. correct. I am using my Oppo DVD player and the picture is good, but I feel it can be much better with a few tweaks here and there. Can someone post some user settings that has worked for them and recommend how I can calibrate the projector.

Pglover19, congrats on new PJ.

Did you buy it from PJPeople or some other place ? I see you have it mounted so I guess you figured out how to connect Chief RPA-U mount, did you need any extra (longer) M3 screws or whatever came with PJ/mount worked out ok ?

As far as c/c/b is concerned, did you try AVIA or Video Essentials disk to calibrate it ? This seems to be the best way to do it since setting from other users are not necessarily going to be good for your setup due to different viewing conditions / screen, etc.

HTH, Davie.

Greetings,

I'm unboxing tonight, the HD72 review unit I received a few days ago. I still have my calibration software/hardware up, as I am just finishing a review of the Sony HS51A.

So, when I fire up the HD72, I'll take a quick look at the color balance, and do a one pass calibration. That should get some basic settings for you to try. If not posted tonight (probably not) then by tomorrow night.

The review itself won't be done and posted on my site, until probably next Wed - Thursday. -art

Art,

Nice to hear that you finally going to review HD72, I was checking your site regularly since it was promised at end of Jan :) .

Since you still have the Sony, any chance you can do side by side Sony vs. HD72. That will be interesting to hear your opinion since I've read new Sony 51A model improved on the previous one.

Thanks, Davie.

Can someone post some user settings that has worked for them and recommend how I can calibrate the projector.

Tom posted his settings here.........

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=643075

If you mount HD72 on same height, then center of lens is 8'11" (107"). Max distance you can mount is 18'4".

Height of you screen is 65" (I wish I could do the same) which will create offset of 20.8".

107 - 65 - 20.8 = 21.2" is the distance from floor to the bottom of the screen. A llitle bit off your 24" target, so you need to find the way to mount your PJ 3 inches higher (if ceiling allows) or move your screen 3" lower.

HTH, Davie

Thanks...

I can go higher if I need to....I have 10 ft ceilings in that room so that shouldn't be a problem at all :)

The Peerless Spyder Universal Mount works for the HD72 just fine. You can only use 3 of the 4 mounting holes due to the small area that the 4 mounting holes are located in, but it's plenty secure. It has roll and tilt adjustments that work really well.

Is this the Peerless mount with a ball and socket for making adjustments?

Thanks

Hi. Would someone be kind enough to explain me in what way does the offset of this PJ vary with the zooming....Example, if I use the PJ for a 106 diag screen, will the offset be the smallest if I put the PJ closer to the screen and will it be the largest if I put the PJ farther from the screen? Or is it the opposite...I am getting a bit confused.

What confuses me even more is the definition of ZOOMING. According to some brochures I've read, maximum zooming is used when you put the PJ the closest from the screen for a given screen size, thus enlarging (zooming) the picture to a maximum size for a given distance. Is this definition right or is it just the opposite???

Thanks everyone for your explanations!

Mypplebuddy,

I, too, am quite impressed with those shots (with the exception of the higher BC settings in the kitchen scene). I'm also very pleased to hear that you're happy with the Carada BW screen. If my HT construction plan moves forward, this would be my current choice of PJ/screen.

You mentioned that you don't have a well light controlled room. Were those shots taken in complete darkness at night? Or was there some residual ambient light. Also, any regrets about the BW screen fabric? I read the audioholics review where they favorably compared it to the much more expensive Studiotek screen, in which they state that it was their preferred fabric of the three Carada options. My question here is whether you have any regret about not going with the gray--I'm curious about yours (and any other) thoughts about the appropriate gain match for this PJ (Carada or not).

Thanks,

KK

Greetings,

I'm unboxing tonight, the HD72 review unit I received a few days ago. I still have my calibration software/hardware up, as I am just finishing a review of the Sony HS51A.

So, when I fire up the HD72, I'll take a quick look at the color balance, and do a one pass calibration. That should get some basic settings for you to try. If not posted tonight (probably not) then by tomorrow night.

The review itself won't be done and posted on my site, until probably next Wed - Thursday. -art

Art,

That's great...can't wait.

Also, if you can make some comparison comments between this and the H78DC3 and maybe that new high-end Benq PE8720 you installed, that would be great. So far Ix has posted a great user review comparison between the H78DC3 and the HD72, but his calibrations may not have been as close as you can probably get them. Plus, he only had it for 1 night. I'm sure Ix might even be interested himself on what you have to say.

Your reviews appear to be un-biased to me, as far as I can tell, so I'm looking forward to this review as well!

Thanks,

Fleaman

Hey guys, I received my HD72 yesterday, and finally set it up today. This is replacing my H31. I would of set it up yesterday but it wouldn't work with the mount I made for my H31.

Anyways, I'll start with some of the cons of this machine. First, I really don't feel it is a $500-600 step up from the H31, but I am keeping it anyways. Why, you may ask? I don't know, I think it has mind control over me. Seriously, though, I'm watching the opening ceremonies of the Winter games right now and I thought I would see a tremendous improvement in HD over my H31, but the improvement definately doesn't knock my socks off. This unit is also alot larger than my H31, and the mounting holes are off-center of the unit, which is why I had to build a new mount for it (my old mount had the plate made of plexi-glass and I was afraid that it would crack because of the pressure that is being put on it b/c off the off-center mount, so I rebuilt it out of 16 guage steel). The TrueVivid and AI modes do a whole lot of nothing. Those are about the only negatives I've found.

The pros are as follows:
1) I for one, love the brilliant color feature. I have mine set to 6 right now and feel that it really makes the image pop.
2) I threw in LOTR to see how it handles DVDs (since I've watched this movie more than any other I felt it would be good for comparison) and was expecting the image to be not as good as the H31, since it has to upconvert the image, but I was thoroughly impressed. I think this is what is convincing me of the $500-600 upgrade. Honestly, I've never seen the movie look so good.
3) This image is also much brighter than my H31, which helps during the day, since the projector is mounted in my living room.
4) I like the way the iec connector fits in this unit more than the H31. I assembled my own power cord out of 10 guage shielded copper and I had to grind off part of the housing of the female end of the iec connector to get it to fit in the H31 because the male side was so recessed in. The HD72 is not really recessed at all.
5) Not a biggie, but I like the remote better on the HD72 as opposed to the H31. The color matches the unit and it is layed out a little better.
6) Although the the image on high-def is not as great of an improvement over the H31 as I thought it would be, it is still a noticable improvement.
7) The slightly larger offset helps me out with my cathedral ceilings.

All in all, it seems like a great unit and by the way, I haven't had a chance to calibrate it, yet, so I'm expecting the pros to further outweigh the cons once I'm all set up.

Seriously, though, I'm watching the opening ceremonies of the Winter games right now and I thought I would see a tremendous improvement in HD over my H31, but the improvement definately doesn't knock my socks off.


Thats the thing...the H31 and 4805 projectors do such a nice job of throwing out that downscaled image that when you finally see the real thing, the differences are subtle. Less jagged lines on curved edges........more fine detail...but at the exact same time, you wind up going.."Yeah..but.....I want it to totally blow me away with crystal-clarity!".

And that just aint gonna happen until we get 1080p projectors, where the jump from 720x480 to 1920x1080 has a better chance of being SIGNIFICANTLY noticible.....

I bought my H31 knowing this last year.....720p is slightly sharper.....but its not night and day "blow my mind" shaper...its just not. I think, however, that to get the most out of that projector, you'll need full-bandwidth movies on HD...NOT the compressed stuff you get over satellite/cable...methinks you haven't yet seen the full potential of what that 720pj can do.

Art,

That's great...can't wait.

Also, if you can make some comparison comments between this and the H78DC3 and maybe that new high-end Benq PE8720 you installed, that would be great. So far Ix has posted a great user review comparison between the H78DC3 and the HD72, but his calibrations may not have been as close as you can probably get them. Plus, he only had it for 1 night. I'm sure Ix might even be interested himself on what you have to say.

Your reviews appear to be un-biased to me, as far as I can tell, so I'm looking forward to this review as well!

Thanks,

Fleaman

No I won't! My opinion is the only one that matters!

Of course I want to know what a pro, or semi-pro, or even just more-pro than me has to say. I'd be happy for any "real" review on this unit because frankly it scares me that I might be one the the first semi-reviews to come out for this thing :)

Mypplebuddy,

I, too, am quite impressed with those shots (with the exception of the higher BC settings in the kitchen scene). I'm also very pleased to hear that you're happy with the Carada BW screen. If my HT construction plan moves forward, this would be my current choice of PJ/screen.

You mentioned that you don't have a well light controlled room. Were those shots taken in complete darkness at night? Or was there some residual ambient light. Also, any regrets about the BW screen fabric? I read the audioholics review where they favorably compared it to the much more expensive Studiotek screen, in which they state that it was their preferred fabric of the three Carada options. My question here is whether you have any regret about not going with the gray--I'm curious about yours (and any other) thoughts about the appropriate gain match for this PJ (Carada or not).
All of my screenshot posts were taken in complete darkness at night. My ceiling is white and my walls are a lighter color so there is a fair amount of light present in the room created by the image on the screen. I'm going to have to post some new screenshots though because I used Guitarman's settings for component video and it improved the image over what I had calibrated it to.

I think that some time back I had read that same review about the Carada BW vs Studiotek 130 and that's why I recommended the Carada BW to my dad when he bought an H57. I was really impressed with the customer service he got, and the product itself was outstanding. The Studiotek 130 is regarded as the best "no-nonsense" screen on the market today, one that reflects back exactly what is projected onto it without alteration. In fact, Greg Rogers, the leading projector reviewer for Widescreen Review, uses it in his setup. I think the Carada BW is about 1/2 the cost of a Studiotek 130. I'm not saying they're exactly the same performance, but from the audioholics review it sounds like they're nearly identical.

I have absolutely no regrets about the HD72/Carada Criterion BW combination, and frankly I'm amazed that I have a 7 ft wide screen that looks so incredible and the whole package (projector, screen, mount, cables) was just a hair over $3K. I love modern technology!

Can someone post there settings used for standard/HDTV. I also used Guitarman's settings for digital (HDMI/DVI) video and the picture looks great with DVD movies. However, the picture on standard TV/HDTV with Guitarman needs some tweaking in order to look great. Please post your best setting for standard TV/HDTV.

Seriously, though, I'm watching the opening ceremonies of the Winter games right now and I thought I would see a tremendous improvement in HD over my H31, but the improvement definately doesn't knock my socks off.

Since NBC is 1080i, the HD72 is likely deinterlacing/downscaling to 1280x540. Make sure to try (hopefully not terribly compressed) 720p from FOX or ABC.

"Since NBC is 1080i, the HD72 is likely deinterlacing/downscaling to 1280x540. Make sure to try (hopefully not terribly compressed) 720p from FOX or ABC "
A little misleading . The 1080i feed is converted to 720p, not 540.
Blueboyjr ; After you calibrate for your hdtv settings, please post your findings. The Hd72 should have user selectable modes ,and remember the settings,like most projectors

...Anyways, I'll start with some of the cons of this machine. First, I really don't feel it is a $500-600 step up from the H31, but I am keeping it anyways. Why, you may ask? I don't know, I think it has mind control over me. Seriously, though, I'm watching the opening ceremonies of the Winter games right now and I thought I would see a tremendous improvement in HD over my H31, but the improvement definately doesn't knock my socks off.

I too have a H31 and also watched the opening cerermonies of the Winter games and I didn't think it looked that great. Good yes, 'cos it's HD, but I thought the Superbowl on ABC looked much better. Like FlyingGimp said, could be the NBC feed or how you're getting it (mine comes through my Adelphia cable).

Later that night I switched to ABC local news which just recently started broadcasting in HD here in L.A. (they have HD cameras in the news room now!) and it was stunning. Looked much better than the Winter game opener...

Fleaman

A little misleading . The 1080i feed is converted to 720p, not 540.


If the deinterlacing solution bobs the 1080i signal to 540 first, then uprezzes it to 720p, then you lose that much extra detail. The Pixelworks solution in the new InFocus PlayBig line does true motion adaptive deinterlacing of 1080i, *then* scales it to 720p.

Since the processing of the HD72 still has some questions surrounding it, I don't think its known for sure yet (or at least isn't widely published), which method is used. Early documents said it uses Faroudja deinterlacing, but I haven't seen any marketing of that in newer documents (though I've yet to read the user's manual!) I've placed a few calls into Optoma but haven't gotten that question answered definitively yet. If the answer is that it bobs 1080i to 540 first, then it likely rules this projector out for me.

Rick

I agree too that the Olympic opening ceremony didn't look great. What I noticed was something that looked like giant pixelization happening. On certain shots with motion it looked like the picture became blocky. Is that dithering? I'm not really sure what it was but it didn't look good. That was the first time I had seen something like that so far with the HD72. It seemed like it was the same couple camera shots I noticed it on again and again. Certain cameras they used seemed to look better than others. I wasn't sure if it was a compression issue, or the cameras they were using, or some processing error in the HD72. Did any of you notice anything like that or was it just me? Any thoughts on what it was?

" I just tested 480i DVD with the HQV test disc and it passed all the tests. HD looks as good as it can with it's high resolution so jaggies are minimal. "

__________________
Tom/guitarman
This is from the -Optoma HD72 review & screenshots thread.
Those of you reporting mediocre HD results need to weed out the possiblities of bad or mediocre; feed; cables; equiptment ; and especially user settings,before blaming the projector for not so hot HDTV performance. Very unfair to Optoma. Thousands of people read these posts.

A little misleading . The 1080i feed is converted to 720p, not 540.

Yes it's 1080i->720p conversion, but the "->" there is important. Aside from from the IN76 no other low priced DLP has implemented 1080i to 1080p deinterlace followed by downscaling to 720p. Since it's a cheaper/easier solution, most display devices implement a 1080i to 540p deinterlace and then upscale to 720p.

Unless you have other information it's reasonable to think the HD72 takes the cheaper 1080i->540p->720p path. And note I said "likely". I'd *love* it if the HD72 took the 1080i->1080p->720p path. Maybe someone with inside info could comment (TzungILin or Guitarman?).

Yes it's 1080i->720p conversion, but the "->" there is important. Aside from from the IN76 no other low priced DLP has implemented 1080i to 1080p deinterlace followed by downscaling to 720p. Since it's a cheaper/easier solution, most display devices implement a 1080i to 540p deinterlace and then upscale to 720p.

Unless you have other information it's reasonable to think the HD72 takes the cheaper 1080i->540p->720p path. And note I said "likely". I'd *love* it if the HD72 took the 1080i->1080p->720p path. Maybe someone with inside info could comment (TzungILin or Guitarman?).

FlyingGimp, of course there is always another option to bypass HD72 deinterlacer and feed it with 720P signal in the first place. Majority of devices will allow you to do that -- in my case both Oppo DVD player and Comcast's Motorola 6412 HDTV box allow you to select 1080i or 720P.

The only question is of course how Oppo or Motorola process 720P deinterlacing -- if they Bob too, then it makes no difference what you feed your PJ, but at least it's an option for people who reported HDTV "problem" to try and see which deinterlacer they like better.

Davie.

Hi. Would someone be kind enough to explain me in what way does the offset of this PJ vary with the zooming....Example, if I use the PJ for a 106 diag screen, will the offset be the smallest if I put the PJ closer to the screen and will it be the largest if I put the PJ farther from the screen? Or is it the opposite...I am getting a bit confused.

What confuses me even more is the definition of ZOOMING. According to some brochures I've read, maximum zooming is used when you put the PJ the closest from the screen for a given screen size, thus enlarging (zooming) the picture to a maximum size for a given distance. Is this definition right or is it just the opposite???

Thanks everyone for your explanations!

Stef2, offset will be smallest if you place your PJ farther from the screen (no zoom or 1.0 zoom). This way for 106" screen it will be mounted 14'6" from the screen.

To better understand zooming: if you keep your PJ at the same distance (14'6") and use max zoom (1.2x), your image will become 127" (106"*1.2=127"). Meaning that you will only see part of the image on your 106" screen and what you see will become 1.2 bigger (depending on what you looking at might not be a bad idea :) ). The rest of the image will spill outside of your screen.

Play with PJ calculator on this link -- it will help you understand it better:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD72-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Please note that HD72 has variable zoom lens (apparently it's cheaper compared to fixed zoom lens), so when you zoom in, your will your image increase in size and will move down from 32% to 37% offset, which in your scenario will mean that top of the zoomed image is going to be 2.6" below non-zoomed image.

HTH, Davie.

I agree too that the Olympic opening ceremony didn't look great. What I noticed was something that looked like giant pixelization happening. On certain shots with motion it looked like the picture became blocky. Is that dithering? I'm not really sure what it was but it didn't look good. That was the first time I had seen something like that so far with the HD72. It seemed like it was the same couple camera shots I noticed it on again and again. Certain cameras they used seemed to look better than others. I wasn't sure if it was a compression issue, or the cameras they were using, or some processing error in the HD72. Did any of you notice anything like that or was it just me? Any thoughts on what it was?

Also not positive on the accurate nomenclature, but I would call it macroblocking. It's either an artifact from compression (Satellite or cable) or a problem with the HD feed at its source (NBC in this case). It’s certainly not dithering from the PJ, it's in the signal.

Cable/Sat. seems to always compress the HD feeds before they send it out. I think the only way to get non-compressed full bandwidth HD signals is off the air (antenna!), and strangely that is free :eek:

Maybe some of those premium HD channels (like HD.net?) force Sat./Cable to broadcast w/o and compression, but I doubt it.

I'm sure someone here will clarify this.

Fleaman

First, I really don't feel it is a $500-600 step up from the H31, but I am keeping it anyways.
What's your screen size ? I'd imagine that on screens of 106" and up that you would see a pretty decent jump in PQ with regards to seeing pixel structure or SDE. If you don't see any difference in regards to these artifacts, then that is pretty disappointing to say the least.


FWIW, I think that the HD72 or Mitsubishi 3000 both offer projectors that would have cost $7000-10000 three years ago....... And, if we are bringing the "next level" into the equation...I venture that these two are as good or better than IF 7210 right now (for less than 1/2 the cost).
While I agree with your thoughts on what these would have cost a few years back, seeing as how bluesboyjr is having trouble justifying the HD72 as major step up from the H31, I hardly feel this statement about it's image being as good or better than the 7210 could be even remotely true.

I've read posts from a few folks who opinions I value and that have made the jump from the 4805/H31 to the 7210 and they are thoroughly impressed with the differences in PQ. If anything, the Optoma H78/79 DC3 pj's are more of a direct comparison, as far as image quality is concerned, to the 7210 which also uses the DC3 chip. If the HD72 can't throw an image equal to the H78DC3 as attested to by Ix in his head to head shootout, it also won't be able to equal or top the 7210's image.

I've done quite a bit of research on both the 7210 and H78DC3 as I'm going to be upgrading from my 4805 and have been eagerly awaiting reviews on the HD72 and IN76 before making my decision. Going strictly on pq alone and excluding everything else, I seriously doubt that either the HD72 or IN76 will be able to equal the 7210/H78. The DC3 chips and optics used by them are superior.

It's definitely nice to see this new generation of low end units close the gap in pq, but if I keep reading posts of people saying "it's not that big of an increase over my H31/4805", I think one of the DC3 pj's will be where my $$$$ go.

Well, we had a mini shootout here in CT today.

Players were HC3000, HD72 and my H78dc3 all on the same screen in my friend's dedicated room blacked out with felt. Screen is a DIY Kilz2 primer.

I did not snap any pics because there are enough of those here and not to clutter the threads up any more.

In my opinion here goes,

Brightness
1: Hd72 by a decent margin, but the whites were a little blown out with almost a shimmer
2: Hc3000 75 hours
3 H78Dc3 with 284 hours on it

Sound output:
1: H78dc3
2: Hd72
3 Hc3000

Colors
1: H78dc3 natural and punchy
2: Hc3000 very close second with only the yellows being slightly digital
3: Hd72, it just seemed that the colors were almost fake, even with the BC turned off, saturation was a decent margin behing the other two, probably based on the white segment

Contrast:
1: H78dc3 no contest
2: Hc3000 with the iris closed all the way down for the best result
3: Hd72 pretty close to the Hc3000 but lacking in the shadow detail slightly less 3d look, overall frosty compared to the the others

Install:
1: H78dc3 lens shift is really nice
tie Hc3000 and Hd72 what the hell were they thinking with these offsets?!?!?! I don't see how most people with average rooms can use these, unless you have the pic on the floor.

I see why now Guitarman's shots were so Keystoned...it's really a tough one on this point

Motion/Deinterlacing/Artifacts
1: H78Dc3
2: Hc3000
3: Hd72, this guy had a "macroblocking look" on HD 1080i sources and looked like my old HD2+ machine on pans....that alone killed it for me, and also my buddy who will be swapping it for a H78

Dither/Noise in the picture
1: H78dc3 damn noise free
2: Hc3000 60% to my eyes of the H78 at 1.5x
3: Hd72 at 1.5x I could still see worms, and again I really think the white segment is the achilles heel of this unit.


My unit is cal to 65k with a Spyder and a spreadsheet so it is not "perfect", the others were "roughed" with avia and mine as an optical comparator.

Don't get me wrong all of em looked great, but I posted this so potential buyers have another account that while the HC3000 and HD72 do not equal a DC3 machine they look damn good for the money. The HC3000 is to my eyes the better of the two and the iris helps it achieve a punchier pic from what I saw.

Sharpness of the optics was reasonably equal across the board with the nod going again to the H78dc3. If i had to pick a second it would be the HD72

If you have the budget and want the best pic in a controlled enviroment buy the one of the remaining H78s
If you need the most brightness for ambient light get a HD72
If you are somewhere in the middle the HC3000 is a great machine.

I almost want to swap my remote for the HD72's... it is nicer looking than the H78dc3 one, which looks like a Fisher Price toy :)



TJ

Art,

Nice to hear that you finally going to review HD72, I was checking your site regularly since it was promised at end of Jan :) .

Since you still have the Sony, any chance you can do side by side Sony vs. HD72. That will be interesting to hear your opinion since I've read new Sony 51A model improved on the previous one.

Thanks, Davie.

Yes, I am planning to shoot the HD72 against the Sony, enough for some quick impressions. I'll do that this evening (DVD only). Of course the HD72 sells for a good $1000 less than the Sony here in the US, so they aren't exactly competitors.

I personally am more interested in doing a side by side with the Sony and the Optoma H78DC3. They are priced similarly. The Darkchip3 overall should give the H78DC3 the edge, but we'll see. (I am a huge H78 fan.)

Sorry for the delay, Optoma's anticipated original delivery time of the HD72 kept slipping. I got it in last week just as I was starting the Sony review, and it was a busy week. The HD72 review will be posted next week. I have to finish with the Sony by Monday to ship it back to them on Tuesday.

Great review tehotaone.

Seems like similar results/opinion as Ix posted.

I can't believe Optoma dropped the H78DC3 with nothing in that price bracket to take its place.

In the fast forward world of Projector technology, it's unthinkable that an older version PJ (H78DC3) will be the one to get if you want better performance than the new kid on the block (HD72) and better value than the soon to be released HD7300.

What was Optoma thinking? And I'm not talking offset here!

Theory: The H78DC3 is too expensive for Optoma to manufacture and be competitive today. While the 'street' price is pretty darn good, it might only be the result of Optoma blowing out their remaining stock to dealers. Optoma may not be able to pull a profit at those blow out prices. Remember, this H78DC3 is essentially an H79....there is much debate over any real differences, other than not having pwr zoom/focus.

Counter theories?

Fleaman

Great review tehotaone.

Seems like similar results/opinion as Ix posted.

I can't believe Optoma dropped the H78DC3 with nothing in that price bracket to take its place.

In the fast forward world of Projector technology, it's unthinkable that an older version PJ (H78DC3) will be the one to get if you want better performance than the new kid on the block (HD72) and better value than the soon to be released HD7300.

What was Optoma thinking? And I'm not talking offset here!

Theory: The H78DC3 is too expensive for Optoma to manufacture and be competitive today. While the 'street' price is pretty darn good, it might only be the result of Optoma blowing out their remaining stock to dealers. Optoma may not be able to pull a profit at those blow out prices. Remember, this H78DC3 is essentially an H79....there is much debate over any real differences, other than not having pwr zoom/focus.

Counter theories?

Fleaman

Ahh, but the HD7300 likely will end up priced slightly higher than the H78 it will be replacing, but that's par for the course. If it offers various improvements, no one will complain. The H78dc3 when it started shipping last spring had a street price right under $4K. By end of summer $3500-$3700 was typical, and now it seems to be down around $3K+ (and I heard something about some dealers doing a free lamp, but I haven't checked into it.

I don't even think Optoma knows exactly what its distribution strategy will be for the 7300 here in the US. The whole purpose of the H78 was to introduce a "version" of the H79, priced lower and sold through the online channel. They've been pretty successful on that.

At CES, they said 2nd quarter for the HD7300 so that could be 2 to 4 months yet.

I don't know if they are running out of H78's at Optoma, but Optoma is placing H78 ads on my site and others that point directly to their stocking dealers. They've got 3 different H78 banners on my site, so they sure aren't behaving like they are running out of product.

I will try and get more info next week, from friends at Optoma, at least regarding HD7300 strategy and expected pricing. (They may pull a "BenQ 8720" and just release the HD7300 to the CEDIA (local) dealer channel, and keep it from their big online resellers, but I am doubtful. Most likely though that is the strategy they indicated they will take on the HD81, their 1080p projector scheduled for Q3. -art

If you have the budget and want the best pic in a controlled enviroment buy the one of the remaining H78s
If you need the most brightness for ambient light get a HD72
If you are somewhere in the middle the HC3000 is a great machine.
TJ
Tehotaone, thanks for the review !!

While it is rather disappointing to hear you found HD72 performance not up to par with HC3000 (we could at least expect that), I am curious what settings of BrilliantColor did you use for HD72 and HC3000 ? While HC3000 has option to turn it on/off, HD72 has option to set it from 1 to 10 (with 3 being default setting out of the box).

Also, I would appreciate if you could post a couple of HC3000 vs HD72 pictures so we can see ourselves what you are talking about. I don't think anybody expects HD72 to be as good as H78 so don't bother here, but HC3000 vs HD72 pics would be nice.

Thanks, Davie.

I am trying to get my Da-Lite screen to go up and down by using the 12v trigger interface with my Da-Lite screen and the 12v trigger input on my HD72 projector. I have the video projector interface from Da-Lite and have ran a 16g speaker wire from the interface to the projector. I need to know what is the correct plug that I need to purchase to work with the projector? Where can I purchase this plug? Please be specific and include a model number. I tried a plug that fit in the projector 12v trigger input, but the screen would not come down or up after wiring.

I will try and get more info next week, from friends at Optoma, at least regarding HD7300 strategy and expected pricing. (They may pull a "BenQ 8720" and just release the HD7300 to the CEDIA (local) dealer channel, and keep it from their big online resellers, but I am doubtful. Most likely though that is the strategy they indicated they will take on the HD81, their 1080p projector scheduled for Q3. -art

That would be great Art. Maybe Optoma will pull a HD7300DC3 out of the hat, priced lower...into the H78DC3 range. They did it with the H79 (H78DC3).

Normally, as time goes on, the H78DC3 will go even lower in price as cheaper and better projectors are released into the market. Strangely, if Optoma doesn't have a PJ in the H78DC3 level, you might see the H78DC3 not drop anymore in price. It would be very strange if the H78DC3 actually goes up in price as the supply turns tight.

That would be strange and unheard of in the projector market!

Since Optoma has a history of releasing new generation projectors fairly quickly, I would think they've got something in the works....

Fleaman

Since NBC is 1080i, the HD72 is likely deinterlacing/downscaling to 1280x540. Make sure to try (hopefully not terribly compressed) 720p from FOX or ABC.

I'm using an ota antenna and with a voom stb and I'm still waiting to see something live on ABC or FOX for a good comparison (live HD feeds always look better to me, is this always the case?).

I too have a H31 and also watched the opening cerermonies of the Winter games and I didn't think it looked that great. Good yes, 'cos it's HD, but I thought the Superbowl on ABC looked much better. Like FlyingGimp said, could be the NBC feed or how you're getting it (mine comes through my Adelphia cable).

Later that night I switched to ABC local news which just recently started broadcasting in HD here in L.A. (they have HD cameras in the news room now!) and it was stunning. Looked much better than the Winter game opener...

Fleaman

Yeah, I'm comparing my results to what I seen with the Super Bowl w/H31 (that was the first thing I got to watch in HD, I had just finished mounting the antenna and setting up the box), so maybe my comparison wasn't fair. When I get a good feed on ABC or FOX, I'll update my review.

What's your screen size ? I'd imagine that on screens of 106" and up that you would see a pretty decent jump in PQ with regards to seeing pixel structure or SDE. If you don't see any difference in regards to these artifacts, then that is pretty disappointing to say the least.

I'm only using a 70" diagonal screen, so this is a possibility and something I can't comment on.

Yeah, I'm comparing my results to what I seen with the Super Bowl w/H31 (that was the first thing I got to watch in HD, I had just finished mounting the antenna and setting up the box), so maybe my comparison wasn't fair. When I get a good feed on ABC or FOX, I'll update my review.

What's funny is the only reason I watched the Superbowl was to see it on my H31 with the HD feed. I'm not into sports, just knew that that HD broadcast would probably be a very good feed....

I'm a guy and I'm not into sports. And yes, I like girls :)

Fleaman

I can't believe Optoma dropped the H78DC3 with nothing in that price bracket to take its place.

...

What was Optoma thinking? And I'm not talking offset here!

Wasn't the H78DC3 released some months after the H79? Perhaps Optoma has something similar, like an HD7200, without the "hand-picked" optics of the HD7300. Say just the pj without the external scaler box, or the scaler box in some way crippled. Might be wishful thinking on my part, as the horizontal pans probably eliminate the HD72 for me.

But aside from the that, Optoma is going to sell a whole boatload more HD72's than H78DC3's considering the price point.

I'm fairly new to this so my apologies ahead of time. I'm considering the HD72 but I want to make sure that it will work for the room. My basement has a drop ceiling, which makes the total height 7' tall. However, I would be able to mount the projector against the real ceiling, which is 8'5" (102"). I would like to know if I could use a 106" screen with the HD72 and still be OK. Here's what I'm thinking:

> 106" screen (52x92)
> Projector would be 14'6" from screen
> Bottom of screen would be 28" from the floor, which means it will only be 4" from ceiling (28"+52"=80")
> If I understand the offset correctly, then the center of the lens should be 16.64" from top of screen (52*.32)

So, 28" from floor to bottom of screen + 52" screen height + 16.64" + 3" for a flush ceiling mount + 2" from the top of PJ to center of lens = 101.64"

It would seem that I have enough room but is my logic correct? Did I miss something? Also, do you think that the PJ will be obstructed? Only one row (2 tiles really) from the drop ceiling will be removed where the PJ will be mounted and the drop ceiling is hanging 18" from the real ceiling. The projector will only be hanging about 3" or 4" from the real ceiling. I'm not sure if that will work but I can always remove the next row if necessary. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Eclipse,

No pics just observations,

All the processing BC gimmicks etc were off for tests, the only unfair advantage thoughout was the Hc3000's iris.

I was kind of disapointed in the Hd72, it is very nice, but I expected more from Optoma.
With the lens shift it is a killer.... at least for my buddy.


You guys are right about a Hd7300 Lite being a good possibility.

TJ

I'm fairly new to this so my apologies ahead of time. I'm considering the HD72 but I want to make sure that it will work for the room. My basement has a drop ceiling, which makes the total height 7' tall. However, I would be able to mount the projector against the real ceiling, which is 8'5" (102"). I would like to know if I could use a 106" screen with the HD72 and still be OK. Here's what I'm thinking:

> 106" screen (52x92)
> Projector would be 14'6" from screen
> Bottom of screen would be 28" from the floor, which means it will only be 4" from ceiling (28"+52"=80")
> If I understand the offset correctly, then the center of the lens should be 16.64" from top of screen (52*.32)

So, 28" from floor to bottom of screen + 52" screen height + 16.64" + 3" for a flush ceiling mount + 2" from the top of PJ to center of lens = 101.64"

It would seem that I have enough room but is my logic correct? Did I miss something? Also, do you think that the PJ will be obstructed? Only one row (2 tiles really) from the drop ceiling will be removed where the PJ will be mounted and the drop ceiling is hanging 18" from the real ceiling. The projector will only be hanging about 3" or 4" from the real ceiling. I'm not sure if that will work but I can always remove the next row if necessary. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Your calculations are perfect and your 8'6" ceiling will work fine for your config. But as far as your drop ceiling is concerned I am not sure how you can make it work without removing your drop ceiling. Since center of the lens will be 5" from the real ceiling + 16" offset = 21" from the top of your screen to the real ceiling. Your drop ceiling is 18" below real ceiling, meaning center of lens will be 13" above drop ceiling and it will be blocking your image unless you remove almost all of it.
I am afraid removing just next row will not do it -- based on the rough rule of 1 inch of offset per foot of throw distance, you'll be able to keep roughly 3 feet of drop ceiling (top of your screen is 3" below drop ceiling).

HTH, Davie.

Yeah, I'm comparing my results to what I seen with the Super Bowl w/H31 (that was the first thing I got to watch in HD, I had just finished mounting the antenna and setting up the box), so maybe my comparison wasn't fair. When I get a good feed on ABC or FOX, I'll update my review.

Bluesboyjr, you might be a victim of the 1st time HDTV shock. I do remember my first HDTV shock as well and I can swear that my 1080P LCD TV was showing much better HDTV picture when I first connected it to HDTV source compared to what I see right now. We just get used to it, so it might not be necessarily PJ "fault".

Davie.

I am currently trying to decide between hc3000 and hd72. I live in europe (PAL country). The projector would be situated in a totally light controlled dedicated homecinema room.

This far I've been leaning towards HD72, but I have some concerns with the rgbrgbW color wheel. what is the benefit of it in my case? should I go for HC3000 in stead?

Art, just curious as to what your initial pre-review impressions of the HD72 are? Was wondering if you'd yet had chance to fiddle with the various colour options and found anything natural and 'standard' looking?

I was all set for one until I started reading the first write-ups and seeing the pics posted. Have yet to see or read anything that dissuades from me feeling that Optoma have shot themselves in the foot by incorporating the white segment and shooting for giddy brightness levels. BC On = artificial boosting, bleeding, contrast crush, complete lack of colour accuracy. BC Off = lack of punch and slight wash-out due to CW white segment :confused: I really hope it's not the case, but early impressions would seem to suggest that it could well be...

Looking forward to the final review anyway. Hopefully it'll be before they launch over here in the UK, which should be next week by all accounts. If I keep my preorder I land a free 92" screen and ceiling bracket, so need to be sure before they actually drop...

Damian.

Looking forward to the final review anyway. Hopefully it'll be before they launch over here in the UK, which should be next week by all accounts.




Hello Damian,

are you sure about the release date? I got an answer from optoma UK that HD72i would be released early March here in EU. This was a couple of weeks ago

I am currently trying to decide between hc3000 and hd72. I live in europe (PAL country). The projector would be situated in a totally light controlled dedicated homecinema room.

This far I've been leaning towards HD72, but I have some concerns with the rgbrgbW color wheel. what is the benefit of it in my case? should I go for HC3000 in stead?

Juhis, I'm in a similar dilemma myself. Well, I would be if the Mits could be had for nearer the HD72 price in the UK! At present, it's a good £400 GBP more so it's out of the equation for now. The H79 can now be had for 'only' £1000 more than the HD72 list price, so if anything I'd go that extra mile on a H79 instead :)

Anyhoo, based on what's been written and shown thus far, I see no benefits for the rgbrgbw wheel, only negatives. It's there to allow for 10 step Brilliant Colour processing, which only appears to lend colours an unnatural 'cartoony' appearance anyway. But even with BC turned off, it seems that the white segment could be adversely affecting colours by washing them out and providing almost too much brightness. In fairness, this is just a surmising of what's been said and shown so far and I hope to be proven wrong. Really, I do. They've only been in a few folks' homes for a week and I'm sure we'll be hearing a lot more opinions, hopefully to the contrary of the above, on the HD72's rendition of colours over the forthcoming weeks and months. Heck, I'm still very much toying with picking one up myself despite the above. An FL-day filter could be all that's needed to bring everything into line for my pic tastes...

Damian.

Hello Damian,

are you sure about the release date? I got an answer from optoma UK that HD72i would be released early March here in EU. This was a couple of weeks ago

Hi again Juhis. Well, the last time I was in touch with Optoma UK and the dealer I've preordered with, Optoma last said "mid to late Feb" and the dealer said last week or this coming week. So I'm hoping it could be this next week, but maybe you're right as it's been a couple of weeks since I pestered anybody. At any rate, I don't see why it would be much longer now as they're obviously well into production.

Just out of interest, how much can the Mits HC3000 be had for where you reside? I like the sound of being able to close the iris in that my viewing is 100% light controlled as well. Who needs all this extortionate brightness output, eh? ;)

Damian.

Prices are pretty much the same here in scandiland. I've seen the hc3000 as my brother has one. Only problem with it is 2:2 pulldown with PAL material (576i). Otherwise the picture is really good. I was hoping that hd72i would match the picture quality of hc3000 with additional value from faroudja in 2:2 pulldown.

If the picture quality is confirmed to be inferior to hc3000, I will go with the hc3000

Shame the 2:2 isn't up to scratch for PAL. Despite being in the UK, I've only about 5 PAL DVD's out of 1500 so luckily it's not an issue for me. Couldn't you just pair the HC3000 with a DCDi upscaling player and bypass the HC3000's internal scaling/deinterlacing? Unless you're thinking for 576i/p television and games...

If the HD72 doesn't drop over here until into March, we might as well wait for the Infocus IN76 and at least see how that squares up. The only thing stopping me from doing that otherwise, is that the higher offset of the HD72 (and HC3000 for that matter) is actually pretty much essential in my case.

Damian.

Your calculations are perfect and your 8'6" ceiling will work fine for your config. But as far as your drop ceiling is concerned I am not sure how you can make it work without removing your drop ceiling. Since center of the lens will be 5" from the real ceiling + 16" offset = 21" from the top of your screen to the real ceiling. Your drop ceiling is 18" below real ceiling, meaning center of lens will be 13" above drop ceiling and it will be blocking your image unless you remove almost all of it.
I am afraid removing just next row will not do it -- based on the rough rule of 1 inch of offset per foot of throw distance, you'll be able to keep roughly 3 feet of drop ceiling (top of your screen is 3" below drop ceiling).

HTH, Davie.
Eclipse,

That's what I was afraid of. Thank you very much for the great info! I guess that rules out the HD72 for me. I'll check for reviews of the upcoming Infocus IN76.

Thanks again!

Bluesboyjr, you might be a victim of the 1st time HDTV shock. I do remember my first HDTV shock as well and I can swear that my 1080P LCD TV was showing much better HDTV picture when I first connected it to HDTV source compared to what I see right now. We just get used to it, so it might not be necessarily PJ "fault".

Davie.

:D That is a very good point and I meant to bring that up after the Super Bowl (sorry, I mean "Big Game" ;) ) When I watched the first quarter or so, I felt like I was in Heaven, then, I slowly became more accustomed to it and was wondering if the feed was maybe getting worse. I see now, that this WAS probably "1st time HDTV shock" and others also suffer from it :( . Is there any cure?

Art, just curious as to what your initial pre-review impressions of the HD72 are? Was wondering if you'd yet had chance to fiddle with the various colour options and found anything natural and 'standard' looking?

I was all set for one until I started reading the first write-ups and seeing the pics posted. Have yet to see or read anything that dissuades from me feeling that Optoma have shot themselves in the foot by incorporating the white segment and shooting for giddy brightness levels. BC On = artificial boosting, bleeding, contrast crush, complete lack of colour accuracy. BC Off = lack of punch and slight wash-out due to CW white segment :confused: I really hope it's not the case, but early impressions would seem to suggest that it could well be...

Looking forward to the final review anyway. Hopefully it'll be before they launch over here in the UK, which should be next week by all accounts. If I keep my preorder I land a free 92" screen and ceiling bracket, so need to be sure before they actually drop...

Damian.

OmenII,
First thing, I'm no video purist, but I definately appreciate a good picture (hence the fact that this is my third different projector in a year and a half) and I really like the BC feature. I kind of compare it to how the colors look more vivid on HD than they do on SD. I didn't think they had a "cartoony" look at all. And yes, it definately boost the brightness the higher you go on the setting, and probably does have an effect on contrast, but if I had to choose to have the projector with or without it, I would choose with.

I think that some time back I had read that same review about the Carada BW vs Studiotek 130 and that's why I recommended the Carada BW to my dad when he bought an H57. I was really impressed with the customer service he got, and the product itself was outstanding. The Studiotek 130 is regarded as the best "no-nonsense" screen on the market today, one that reflects back exactly what is projected onto it without alteration. In fact, Greg Rogers, the leading projector reviewer for Widescreen Review, uses it in his setup. I think the Carada BW is about 1/2 the cost of a Studiotek 130. I'm not saying they're exactly the same performance, but from the audioholics review it sounds like they're nearly identical.

I have absolutely no regrets about the HD72/Carada Criterion BW combination, and frankly I'm amazed that I have a 7 ft wide screen that looks so incredible and the whole package (projector, screen, mount, cables) was just a hair over $3K. I love modern technology!

I guess great minds think alike :) I'm very pleased to hear that you have first hand experience with the Carada BW in two home theaters and can vouch for its peformance. That's certainly good enough for me to pencil it in as the tentative screen, at this point!

-KK

OmenII,
First thing, I'm no video purist, but I definately appreciate a good picture (hence the fact that this is my third different projector in a year and a half) and I really like the BC feature. I kind of compare it to how the colors look more vivid on HD than they do on SD. I didn't think they had a "cartoony" look at all. And yes, it definately boost the brightness the higher you go on the setting, and probably does have an effect on contrast, but if I had to choose to have the projector with or without it, I would choose with.

Thanks for the positive comments, bluesboyjr. Anyone else with something nice to say about BC and the HD72's colours in general, please feel free to chime in :) I really do want to want this projector as it's everything I've been holding out for otherwise. Even the large offset is a bonus. Some more shots with BC off (or even on 1 or 2) might be encouraging. Perhaps another of the Spiderman scene Ix posted with his HD72 on BC setting 4, to see if the whites aren't crushed with BC off (or on a lower setting) :-

HD72
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0973.JPG

H78
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0903.JPG

AE900
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0891.JPG


Damian.

Thanks for the positive comments, bluesboyjr. Anyone else with something nice to say about BC and the HD72's colours in general, please feel free to chime in :) I really do want to want this projector as it's everything I've been holding out for otherwise. Even the large offset is a bonus. Some more shots with BC off (or even on 1 or 2) might be encouraging. Perhaps another of the Spiderman scene Ix posted with his HD72 on BC setting 4, to see if the whites aren't crushed with BC off (or on a lower setting) :-

HD72
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0973.JPG

H78
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0903.JPG

AE900
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0891.JPG


Damian.

Dude, your pics aren't accessible.

Hi,
Here in Europe we shall get the HD72i in stead of the US HD72.
Anyone got the specs of the HD72i ? One of the differences seems to be the Faroudja DCDi interlacing. What de-interlace chip is used in the US version?
tnx

Art, if you're around - any chance you might be able to comment on how the newly updated BenQ 7700 stacks up to the HD72? Given the very competitive price of the 7700, it seems like another possible alternative. The zero offset would be much better for my, personally. Even the Infocus IN76's 15.59% offset is pushing it and I'd have to tilt it ever so slightly. So the BenQ7700 interests me. I'd love to know what you (or anyone else who's seen both) think!

Thanks,
Jon

I need help in getting the HD72 projector to trigger my Da-Lite screen to go up and down. Can someone post some detail instructions on how to do this.

try the screen forum ,since you don't seem to have the cable or instructions.

Dude, your pics aren't accessible.


Those are actually my pics he's using :) (which is fine) and it appears the url is being cut off by the forum software or something.

The correct path is: http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/

for the pics


Remember, this H78DC3 is essentially an H79....there is much debate over any real differences, other than not having pwr zoom/focus.

Counter theories?

Fleaman

The HD78DC3 does have Power Zoom and Focus, or I got the "special" version.

There is quite a lot of debate which most of it leaning towards the H78 being the exact same as the H79, minus a year off the warranty and "hand picked" parts, whatever that means. There were early reports that lumen output was lower, and measured contrast slightly different but those were mostly discredited as more testing occurred/time was put on bulbs.

Everyone on the forum who has seen the two together can't tell them apart, there was even a rumor that Optoma employees couldn't either although that is second hand. All I know is that it is a hell of a nice projector and I got a "free" bulb with it, so I hope mine doesn't blow after a few hundred hours, that being the one major issue with the H78 and H79 reported here.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how this projector came in to being selling for what it is selling for but I'm not complaining.

The HD78DC3 does have Power Zoom and Focus, or I got the "special" version.

There is quite a lot of debate which most of it leaning towards the H78 being the exact same as the H79, minus a year off the warranty and "hand picked" parts, whatever that means. There were early reports that lumen output was lower, and measured contrast slightly different but those were mostly discredited as more testing occurred/time was put on bulbs.

Everyone on the forum who has seen the two together can't tell them apart, there was even a rumor that Optoma employees couldn't either although that is second hand. All I know is that it is a hell of a nice projector and I got a "free" bulb with it, so I hope mine doesn't blow after a few hundred hours, that being the one major issue with the H78 and H79 reported here.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how this projector came in to being selling for what it is selling for but I'm not complaining.

Ok, for about 2 days I thought it didn't 'cos on the Optoma website it showed the H79 with power zoom and focus under 'Features', but the H78DC3 didn't have power zoom and focus listed at all.

I read the same thing that you did, that no one could tell ANY difference between the H79 and H78DC3. I guess Optoma thought that listing power zoom/focus for the H78DC3 would make it too appealing. Like no one would figure it out ;)

Now it really looks like there won't be a PJ like this once it's gone. I mean, what PJ performs like this, has optical lens shift and pwr zoom/focus, at these street prices?

I wonder if even the HD7300 will have pwr zoom/focus and optical lens shift??

Fleaman

Only problem with it is 2:2 pulldown with PAL material (576i).

My HC3000 does 2:2 on 576i perfectly via Component input.

Well after owning the HD72 for awhile I am liking it more and more, but also less and less (if that's possible). Every single aspect of the HD72's performance I love, including the offset because I have a high ceiling. There's just one main issue with the HD72's peformance that keeps bugging me: the whites. I used guitarman's settings for component video and they were perfect. Colors, brightness, black levels, etc. all look outstanding. However, with everything else looking perfect the whites look "overblown" or "crushed" or "harsh" or something like that. I don't know the perfect word to describe it. With the winter olympics on right now there's lots of events that feature snow, so it's been even more noticable. I've even thought of upgrading to the H78DC3 like Ix, but losing 500 lumens in brightness would almost surely kill me with ambient light present in the room, which is the case much of the time. I'm assuming that the white segment in the color wheel is the culprit of the white levels. Oh yeah and I have BrilliantColor turned off too because guitarman's settings made everything else look perfect without it.

Do you guys know if there's possibly a factory menu setting or something to tame the white levels? I think someone else asked this, but is it possible to disable a color wheel segment (if the white segment is to blame)? My natural tendency is to turn down contrast when the whites look overblown, but that makes everything else look wrong. Like I said, I think guitarman's settings are right on.

Ix, how would you compare the calibrated brightness of the HD72 (not using BrilliantColor) to the H78DC3? I use a 96" (1.4 gain) screen and usually there is some ambient light present in the room, unless we're watching movies at night. I don't have offset issues, so do you feel the price difference is worth it? The street price of the H78DC3 combined with the free lamp offer makes it very tempting, but the brightness is my biggest concern, going from 1300 to 800 lumens.

As a disclaimer to you all, I still love the HD72, and I'm probably being too picky for what it costs. Many people would maybe not notice the white levels issue, and in that case you couldn't ask for a better projector for the price (as long as the offset isn't a problem). But still I can't help but wonder how the picture would look without the white segment. As far as I know, the only reason they incorporated the white segment was for Brilliant Color, which now I don't use because the picture looks better without it, using guitarman's settings.

myapplebuddy.

First, the Winter games may not be a good test/indicator of white balance. My H31's whites are not crushed/blown out, but the feed from the Winter games seems to already be blown out in many shots. I think they have the cameras adjusted to see the performers, like snowboarders in the shade (1/2 pipe shade), then when the camera pans to snow with sun on it, it's all blown out.

Second, If your whites are still blown out on good dvd material, then if you haven't already, pop in a THX Optimizer (in the set up menu of the Incredibles disc and some other Pixar movies), there will be a white balance adjuster so you can adjust your contrast to get the 8 different shades of white.

If adjusting your contrast down doesn't work, check for a setting called 'White peaking' and turn that down. I have that on my H31. but not sure if its on the HD72.

If you can't get 8 shades of white in the THX Optimizer set up, then yes, you have problems. But I can't imagine that would be the case.

Fleaman

My HC3000 does 2:2 on 576i perfectly via Component input.

have alook at cine4home.de site.

Ix, how would you compare the calibrated brightness of the HD72 (not using BrilliantColor) to the H78DC3? I use a 96" (1.4 gain) screen and usually there is some ambient light present in the room, unless we're watching movies at night.
.

I assume you are not comparing settings between some ambient light and dark room? If you like your whites with lights on, but they are blown out when the lights are off? The brightness and firepower that works with ambient light isn't gonna be so good with the lights off. Calibrate your brightness and contrast with the lights off.

When I have some ambient light, I just turn my high lamp mode (Brite) on.

Fleaman

If your whites are still blown out on good dvd material, then if you haven't already, pop in a THX Optimizer (in the set up menu of the Incredibles disc and some other Pixar movies), there will be a white balance adjuster so you can adjust your contrast to get the 8 different shades of white.
I'll try this tonight and report on my results. Like I mentioned, I've already tried turning down the contrast to combat the white levels issue and by the time the whites looked more under control, the rest of the picture looked bad.


If adjusting your contrast down doesn't work, check for a setting called 'White peaking' and turn that down. I have that on my H31. but not sure if its on the HD72.
As far as I know there is no 'white peaking' setting on the HD72, but maybe it's called something else.

I assume you are not comparing settings between some ambient light and dark room? If you like your whites with lights on, but they are blown out when the lights are off? The brightness and firepower that works with ambient light isn't gonna be so good with the lights off. Calibrate your brightness and contrast with the lights off.

When I have some ambient light, I just turn my high lamp mode (Brite) on.

Fleaman
I'm currently using guitarman's settings he posted in the HD72 review and screenshots thread. I'm assuming he calibrated his HD72 in a dark room. I just use the same settings with and without ambient light, but the settings are most definitely calibrated for dark viewing, because that's when they look best. If the material I'm watching is dark and there's lots of ambient light in the room, I'll sometimes switch to bright mode, which basically turns on BrilliantColor to setting 10. Usually I just live with a less punchy image, however, because it looks right even though it's more washed out.

Greetings all,

Well I finally finished the review of Sony's HS51A, and I started looking at the HD72 last night. Tonight I'm going to shoot some side by side shots (probably DVD only, off of DVI/HDMI: Sony HS51A vs HD72, HD72, vs H78DC3, Sony vs H78DC3, and finally, HD72 vs BenQ PE7700. My webmaster has a Panny 900u, and I'm going to try to borrow that for a shoot later in the week (against the PE7700, HD72 and Sony).

But there will probably be only a few initially in the HD72 review. I'm planning to follow up after the HD72 review with a overview of $2000+/- price range HT projectors, before the end of the month. That one should be loaded with comparison shots.

That's all the toys I have around here right now.

I hope to have the review posted before the weekend.

When it's up, the direct link will be:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/manufacturers/optoma/HD72.asp

Ok, for about 2 days I thought it didn't 'cos on the Optoma website it showed the H79 with power zoom and focus under 'Features', but the H78DC3 didn't have power zoom and focus listed at all.

I read the same thing that you did, that no one could tell ANY difference between the H79 and H78DC3. I guess Optoma thought that listing power zoom/focus for the H78DC3 would make it too appealing. Like no one would figure it out ;)

Now it really looks like there won't be a PJ like this once it's gone. I mean, what PJ performs like this, has optical lens shift and pwr zoom/focus, at these street prices?

I wonder if even the HD7300 will have pwr zoom/focus and optical lens shift??

Fleaman

The H78DC3 Optoma rates at 800 lumens if I remember correctly vs 1000, and the contrast ratio, is 4000:1 vs 4500:1. More smoke and mirrors apparently. But you do get the extra year warranty and first year replacement program with the H79.

But back to the HD7300, it is supposed to have horizontal and vertical lens shift.

The question becomes what will it sell for. It has a tenative list price of $9999, but then, that's also the list of the H79 which sells for just under half of that if you can find it on line.

Well I finally finished the review of Sony's HS51A, and I started looking at the HD72 last night. Tonight I'm going to shoot some side by side shots (probably DVD only, off of DVI/HDMI: Sony HS51A vs HD72, HD72, vs H78DC3, Sony vs H78DC3, and finally, HD72 vs BenQ PE7700. My webmaster has a Panny 900u, and I'm going to try to borrow that for a shoot later in the week (against the PE7700, HD72 and Sony).

Art, any chance on getting shots of HC3000 vs HD72 ? I don't think anybody expects HD72 to beat H78DC3 and, as you mentioned before, HS51A is really not a competitor since it's in the higher price range. But head to head with HC3000 is the most interesting duel IMO.

Also, with Infocus IN76 being released 3/13 do you have any plans on reviewing it ? Any chance on getting it for review before the official release date ?

Thanks, Davie.

I thought the whites were overblown on the HD72 too. Overblown in my case means, in order to tune them to the "correct" level, where the contrast bar (in sync with brigtness) in Avia could still be seen to move, and so that white didn't appear "crushed" (dim/grey) the white overpowered other colors on the screen. There is no white "peaking" setting that I saw on it although my H78DC3 has it.

At first I considered it to possibly be the fault of my calibrations, since I only have Avia and not a true way to get correct greyscale - just me and my peepers. However, after reading Guitarman's and other reviews here I am starting to think it's the unit itself, that it is just how it "is" - without BriliantColor on, it's just another low end DLP, with BrilliantColor scenes are "vibrant" but overblown. Some folks may like it and there's nothing "wrong" with it but I suspect the collection of videophiles and videophile wanna-be's here at AVS (don't take that the wrong way I'm one too) will have issues with it.

Myapplebuddy, I'm not trying to convince you to join the upgrade club with me or anything, but I wouldn't worry about the ambient light issue too much. The HD72 is certainly a brighter projector than the H78DC3; that's easy enough to tell just by looking at them both. However, percieved brightness and how a projector looks in ambient light are two different things, because brightness isn't the whole story. The better (real) contrast ratio, better optics, and more "natural/film like" color of the H78DC3 translate in to being able to resolve detail better even with more ambient light present, lumens or no.

I wouldn't want to use either PJ in a bright room, and with the HD72 I felt I could turn up the lights a little more (say more than 50% of my dimmers) but it was a small difference. I can watch the Winter Olympics on the H78DC3 perfectly well with it light enough in the room to see and talk to other people normally. I wouldn't call it "room light" or "well lit" but certainly not blackout conditions either. Make of it what you will :)

Also, I forgot to point out in my post above that I am still using my 1.0 gain screen; with a 1.4 or higher the H78DC3 would probably work even better with ambient light. I plan on getting a 1.4 Carada 2:35.1 screen myself as soon as I figure out which anamorphic lens to buy.

However, after reading Guitarman's and other reviews here I am starting to think it's the unit itself, that it is just how it "is" - without BriliantColor on, it's just another low end DLP, with BrilliantColor scenes are "vibrant" but overblown. Some folks may like it and there's nothing "wrong" with it but I suspect the collection of videophiles and videophile wanna-be's here at AVS (don't take that the wrong way I'm one too) will have issues with it.


Ix, I getting a feeling that your H78DC3 is little more that $1400 lens you mentioned before :) . You said that if not for offset issue with HD72 you would be very happy with it -- now after having H78DC3 for over a week did you change your opinion ?

I am very tempted to get H78 as well, but I have one concern regarding inputs: H78 has only one digital DVI input. I am planning on connecting DVD, HDTV box, Gaming console to the PJ and HD72 is definitely more flexible in this regard by providing you 2 digital connections (HDMI and DVI). I know you have Oppo which you probably connect through DVI, but how do you connect your HDTV box, using component ? I would hate to do that to this beautiful PJ.

The other option I am thinking about is getting HDMI switch (another $300 added to cost) but this way I will not be able to set separate settings for HDTV and DVD since they'll connect to the same DVI input (not sure how big of the problem it is however). How do you handle your connections ?

Thanks, Davie.

Art, any chance on getting shots of HC3000 vs HD72 ? I don't think anybody expects HD72 to beat H78DC3 and, as you mentioned before, HS51A is really not a competitor since it's in the higher price range. But head to head with HC3000 is the most interesting duel IMO.

Also, with Infocus IN76 being released 3/13 do you have any plans on reviewing it ? Any chance on getting it for review before the official release date ?

Thanks, Davie.

My HD72 has yet to arrive but the H78 vs. HD72 white crush comparison pics is a little disconcerting.

The HC3000 and HD72 are more comparable in brightness, DLP chips, and offset - except the HC3000 does not have the white segment on the color wheel. I've not fully gotten through the Mits HC3000 sticky so there could be a comparison already in there. I'm not sure about the IN76 yet.

Oddly enough installation of the H78DC3 won't work for me as the vertical shift range is with the lens aligning somewhere within the screen as opposed to outside the screen like the fixed offset projectors. Can a H78 owner verify this or am I wrong?

I have a beam in my theater I need to avoid with my "wife approved" ceiling mount. The WAF is lower for rear shelf or coffee table installations.

Well I finally finished the review of Sony's HS51A, and I started looking at the HD72 last night. Tonight I'm going to shoot some side by side shots (probably DVD only, off of DVI/HDMI: Sony HS51A vs HD72, HD72, vs H78DC3, Sony vs H78DC3, and finally, HD72 vs BenQ PE7700. My webmaster has a Panny 900u, and I'm going to try to borrow that for a shoot later in the week (against the PE7700, HD72 and Sony).


Well, I look forward more to your detailed opinion regarding the screen shots since it's hard to notice the fine details (like dithering) in screen shots and your shots are pretty small in your reviews.

Although, I have to admit, that even though your screen shots are small, when you do that side-by-side shot comparison with explanation, I can see the differences you write about (like the starfield test).

Still, your organic eyes see much more detail and once that's translated into words in a review, it's what I trust more :)

Fleaman

Although, I have to admit, that even though your screen shots are small, when you do that side-by-side shot comparison with explanation, I can see the differences you write about (like the starfield test).


I was just thinking about the same thing while reading HS51A review.

Art, would it be possible to post original (not scaled down) images on your reviews, so one can see the bigger version when he/she clicks on the smaller ones ?

Thanks, Davie.

The HC3000 and HD72 are more comparable in brightness, DLP chips, and offset - except the HC3000 does not have the white segment on the color wheel. I've not fully gotten through the Mits HC3000 sticky so there could be a comparison already in there. I'm not sure about the IN76 yet.


There is a shootout review between HC3000 vs HD72 vs H78DC3 in this thread on page 23 and it favors HC3000 over HD72.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591492&page=23&pp=30

There are no reviews of IN76 that I know of (it will start shipping on 3/13), but I've read that InFocus is not implementing BC feature for their PJ and I think they have RGBRGB color wheel, so perhaps it's not going to have the same problem with whites that HD72 seems to have.

HTH, Davie.

Well, I just hope the white crush issue is a little false alarm and it can be calibrated out somehow. I know digi camera shots are only to give an impression and be used as rough guidelines, but every pic posted of HD72 thus far as displayed far too much 'heat' in the whites. Spotted it immediately. It's something I'm very, ahem, sensitive to after sitting through far too many DVD transfers with knackered contrast levels (the R3 DVD market - I'm looking at you). Many artifacts alot of people seem to have a fit about I could give a flying mule about. Edge enhancement for instance - never bothered me nish.

The white segment might not actually be the evil at work here. The X1 blows out whites and it houses a white segment in its wheel. But that's only 4 segment - RGBW. The HD72 goes (according to the manual) GBRWGBR. Never thought that was possible, but hey. Anyways, the RGBRGB segments should in theory be enough to allow for the extra white as added brightness and not be 'overawed' by it's effect. Actually, I have no idea what I'm on about here...can anyone who does chip in and help me out? Think I'm onto something, just don't know quite what :)

Back on track, I really do the HD72 lives up to its promise. I'm still sure we'll find a way to tame and bring the beast into line yet. It's by far the most interesting of the 3 768p PJ's for me. The 7 segment wheel and colour options (10 step BC and that True Vivid, whatever that actually is) certainly lend it a 'quirky' edge over the straight laced IN76 and it's don't need to touch a button calibrated to perfection OTB hair loss-free offset ordinariness, and the not much more feature fancied HC3000...

Damian.

My HD72 has yet to arrive but the H78 vs. HD72 white crush comparison pics is a little disconcerting.
can someone point out a link to these pics?

Also, I forgot to point out in my post above that I am still using my 1.0 gain screen; with a 1.4 or higher the H78DC3 would probably work even better with ambient light. I plan on getting a 1.4 Carada 2:35.1 screen myself as soon as I figure out which anamorphic lens to buy.

Ix or Art,

I was really trying to convince myself to get the HD72 or IN76 (the winner of the two since I wanted to stay around $2K) but you (and a few other people) have me leaning more towards the H78DC3 now (ahh! :D )

My question now is does the H78DC3 have the brightness to be solid in my room?

I have a 1.3 gain, 133" screen that sits 24" off the ground. 10 ft ceilings (is that a problem with ceiling mounting?) and the room has about 24 feet to work with (from back wall to screen).

I don't know if the H78DC3 has enough brightness for that big of a screen. I have total control of all light in my room since it's a dedicated theater room.

Any help would be appreciated....I really want to finally finish off the equipment part of my room and I just can't decide on that projector lol :)

can someone point out a link to these pics?

These are from the other HD72 thread by guitarman by omenII. I liked the pop of the HD72 pics initially, but they do look a little off next to the H79. I'm going to wait and see for myself when the HD72 arrives. I tend to like brighter pictures even if they aren't videophile perfect, so the HD72 might be great for me (the price certainly is...)

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72fifth1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79fifth5.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77fifth2.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72glad2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79glad2.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72fifth2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79fifth3.jpg

There is a shootout review between HC3000 vs HD72 vs H78DC3 in this thread on page 23 and it favors HC3000 over HD72.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591492&page=23&pp=30

HTH, Davie.
To be honest, I think the reviewer made it clear enough that he didn't spend too much time fiddling with either of the HD72 or HC3000 before lining it up against his well run in and tweaked H78. I'll be taking that one with a pinch of salt if I may. Factors affect other factors in PJ specs, and I think the brightness of the HD72 is contributing the the alleged deeper blacks of the HC3000 (the H78 with a good few hours on it probably helped it out, too). The H31 was said to have better blacks than the Infocus 4805 when it was in fact just dimmer. And a slightly dimmer image can often make colours appear deeper or richer as well, avoiding brightness washout. It's all relative. At the end of the day, the HD72 and HC3000 are using the same main chipset. There's likely to be very little difference between both core performances. Early impressions definitely suggest it's the white segment that's looking to either make or break the HD72, but I feel there's plenty of time for potential caveats to be discovered with it yet

Damian.

Both the HD72 and Hc3000 were "calibrated" with avia and Opticaly against mine with a grayscale ramp.

No we used none of the "bells and whistles" of either of the new chipsets, on either of the 768 machines.

I never expected either of them to approach a DC3 machine with a "run-in" bulb, but the side by side was striking.

The Hc3000 to my eyes had much more finesse to the picture. I believe with some work and a ND filter the Hd72 can get there, but the "blown out" look, and dither disappointed me coming from Optoma.

All of the HT units from Optoma have struck me with that CRT look, this one did not, although it may achieve it with a tweaking and taming of the excessive light output caused more than likely by the white segment...there is just no explanation other than that for me.

It does throw a great picture for the money...hopefully some of these issues will be
resolved as the owners dig deeper calibrating and setting one up for the best image.

TJ

These are from the other HD72 thread by guitarman by omenII. I liked the pop of the HD72 pics initially, but they do look a little off next to the H79. I'm going to wait and see for myself when the HD72 arrives. I tend to like brighter pictures even if they aren't videophile perfect, so the HD72 might be great for me (the price certainly is...)

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72fifth1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79fifth5.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77fifth2.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72glad2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79glad2.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72fifth2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79fifth3.jpg
Uatatoka, in fairness I did also spot that these two were practically identical. So something can be made right, somewhere :-

HD72
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72glad2.jpg

H77
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77glad1.jpg



The best example of the HD72's possible white fetish were Ix's Spiderman stills :-

HD72
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0973.JPG

H78
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0903.JPG

AE900
http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/...ut/IMG_0891.JPG

But the links are buggered now. Ix, can you help us out here? :)

It'd be handy if some other lucky early adopter could snap the same shot with Brilliant Colour off, to see if that cools the white down on the top of that balloon ...

Damian.

To be honest, I think the reviewer made it clear enough that he didn't spend too much time fiddling with either of the HD72 or HC3000 before lining it up against his well run in and tweaked H78. I'll be taking that one with a pinch of salt if I may. Factors affect other factors in PJ specs, and I think the brightness of the HD72 is contributing the the alleged deeper blacks of the HC3000 (the H78 with a good few hours on it probably helped it out, too). The H31 was said to have better blacks than the Infocus 4805 when it was in fact just dimmer. And a slightly dimmer image can often make colours appear deeper or richer as well, avoiding brightness washout. It's all relative. At the end of the day, the HD72 and HC3000 are using the same main chipset. There's likely to be very little difference between both core performances. Early impressions definitely suggest it's the white segment that's looking to either make or break the HD72, but I feel there's plenty of time for potential caveats to be discovered with it yet

Damian.

Damian,

H78 is not an issue here -- DC3 definitely outperforms DC2.5 PJs. I am more interested in HD72 vs HC3000 and reviewer said: "others (HD72, HC3000) were "roughed" with avia and mine as an optical comparator". So I guess comparison is pretty fair since none of them have been tweaked. What bothers me is that according to review I got a feeling that HD72 was not even close to HC3000 performance.

I do understand that is one person opinion and we will be getting more pretty soon. I really want this PJ to be good and there some encouraging posts from Guitarman that I value a lot.

Thanks, Davie.

Guys,
You have to understand I am an Optoma convert for good or bad, they just make machines that put out exceptional images for the money.

Maybe I had unrealistic expectations of a cross-platform projector tailored down for HT use.

At 1999.00 it is an incredible value for the money, if it is your first projector or you are coming from an LCD (non D5) You will be impressed.

I just feel a responsibility to let potential buyers know what I saw and if they share my personal problems with image quality, they too may be disappointed and face restocking or shipping at a min.

Hell I swayed my buddy to buy one based on my time with my H78 and a lot of seat time with a H31. It really does not share the exceptional qualities of those units that made them stars. It does have the Optoma "colors" but for whatever reason, maybe with the BC chipset, white seg and Optomas saturation tricks, they seem very unnatural ... to me :)

This is just a fellow OCD wannabe Videophile's first hand account, we need calibrated meter results on both before a winner can truly be crowned.

TJ

Fair points gents, I respect what you both have said. The DC3 was always still going to show up the new chipset when put side-by-side. I'm sure TI and it's various licensees were always going to have it that way at the price points they pitch at. But I do feel certain aspects of the HD72 vs HC3000 were likely just down to the brightness levels of both. The slightly apparent less dithering of the HC3000 was very possibly due it being less noticeable due it being dimmer, ditto re. the deeper blacks. I agree that the HD72 sounds ideal prime for filter partnering TJ, and if that is the case then Optoma please everybody as it's also looking to be the brightest 'budget' HC projector yet after calibration. The colours and whites look to be the main concern for the HD72 based on early indications. Hopefully somebody can yet get them 'right'. Cheers for the detailed shootout of the 3 PJ's, anyway.

Damian.

But the links are buggered now. Ix, can you help us out here? :)

Damian.

Yes, it's the forum munging the links for some reason. Just use this url:

http://www.maximumgamer.com/images/shootout/

and stick the names of the pics themselves after the /shootout/ and you should be fine. I don't know why VBulletin does that.

These are from the other HD72 thread by guitarman by omenII. I liked the pop of the HD72 pics initially, but they do look a little off next to the H79. I'm going to wait and see for myself when the HD72 arrives. I tend to like brighter pictures even if they aren't videophile perfect, so the HD72 might be great for me (the price certainly is...)

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72fifth1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79fifth5.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77fifth2.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72glad2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79glad2.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd72fifth2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79fifth3.jpg

many thanks. that hd72fifth1.jpg is a bit disconcerting but the HD72 is a good bargain if you can compromise PQ a bit and deal with the huge offset.

Ix, I getting a feeling that your H78DC3 is little more that $1400 lens you mentioned before :) . You said that if not for offset issue with HD72 you would be very happy with it -- now after having H78DC3 for over a week did you change your opinion ?

I am very tempted to get H78 as well, but I have one concern regarding inputs: H78 has only one digital DVI input. I am planning on connecting DVD, HDTV box, Gaming console to the PJ and HD72 is definitely more flexible in this regard by providing you 2 digital connections (HDMI and DVI). I know you have Oppo which you probably connect through DVI, but how do you connect your HDTV box, using component ? I would hate to do that to this beautiful PJ.

The other option I am thinking about is getting HDMI switch (another $300 added to cost) but this way I will not be able to set separate settings for HDTV and DVD since they'll connect to the same DVI input (not sure how big of the problem it is however). How do you handle your connections ?

Thanks, Davie.

Well, in truth it's not about changing my opinion per se, but that if I hadn't had a problem with the offset I wouldn't have had another opinion in the first place:-). It's one of those cases where I probably would have been happy if I hadn't seen the difference, but I've always liked the H78DC3 picture more, and having it a week now, finally properly mounted and dialed in only reinforces that. I'm working on further calibrations now (eventually I am going to send it to Tom/Guitarman for tweaking after I get some hours on it, or just go full blown ISF) and I'll post up some pics later on this week.

The inputs in truth do annoy me. See, the HD72 (and the AE900u) both had HDMI, and the HD72 DVI, and they were able to work with my Monoprice HDMI switcher with no problem, even though the cable in my ceiling is DVI and I had to use adapters on both ends.

The DVI input on the H78DC3, however, seems to require a stronger signal than the other two PJ's, and won't sync with my Monoprice switch. I have to go direct DVI-DVI with my Oppo, which means Component cables for my HD OTA tuner and cable box. That's actually not bad but being the digital boy I am of course I want it all on the DVI port.

I am looking at a DVI/HDMI switch (it's linked in the Monorprice HDMI switch thread in this forum, forget the name) that is $299 and has 3 DVI and 3 HDMI plus 6 Optical sound inputs to switch. It acts as an amp and is HDCP compatible as well as supports 1080p, so I am thinking that is the solution I will go with. It's remote controllable as well.

I'm not too worried about digital settings per device; I didn't have a problem with my Monoprice HDMI switch with the other two projectors. Too bad to because that was only $142. I tried it with a different cable even but no go, it and the H78DC3 don't get along (this is the 4x1 switch, supposedly a 5x1 that is "better" for the same price is coming but your guess is as good as mine as to how that works).

Before anyone viewed the HD72 in action, there was much speculation that it might actually hold its own or even outperform the DC3 machines due to its faster DMD and other newer technologies hidden within. There were some posts that the DC2 chip in the HD72 might perform as good as a DC3, but Optoma was not gonna infringe onto their higher PJ models by calling it so.

But, after a few real action reviews have chimed in, it seems like the HD72, while a great buy and performer at the price point, isn't gonna outperform the $1,000+ more expensive H78DC3 anytime soon.

Perhaps there are some tweaks to come (ND2 filter ala Infocus 4805, etc.) that might bring some better performance out of this machine, but the observations that it dithers more than the H78DC3 will probably mean it will never be up to that level of performance that the H78DC3 can obtain.

Many of us were hopeful that we might be seeing a $2000 H78DC3 (in a HD72), but it looks like it's not to be.

Fleaman

Damian,

H78 is not an issue here -- DC3 definitely outperforms DC2.5 PJs. I am more interested in HD72 vs HC3000 and reviewer said: "others (HD72, HC3000) were "roughed" with avia and mine as an optical comparator". So I guess comparison is pretty fair since none of them have been tweaked. What bothers me is that according to review I got a feeling that HD72 was not even close to HC3000 performance.

I do understand that is one person opinion and we will be getting more pretty soon. I really want this PJ to be good and there some encouraging posts from Guitarman that I value a lot.

Thanks, Davie.

Haven't you guys realized that Guitarman is working with Optoma? He is always going to say good things about the Optoma PJ's, no matter what, even when another unit is clearly better. I wouldn't give any type of weight to his reviews. I was planning to upgrade my 4805 to the HD72, now I'm not so sure. I'll be glad when some professional reviews like at Projectorcentral get out.

I am looking at a DVI/HDMI switch (it's linked in the Monorprice HDMI switch thread in this forum, forget the name) that is $299 and has 3 DVI and 3 HDMI plus 6 Optical sound inputs to switch. It acts as an amp and is HDCP compatible as well as supports 1080p, so I am thinking that is the solution I will go with. It's remote controllable as well.



If that new switcher works for you, I'd like to know! I don't know if this thread is appropriate to post your opinion on it, but a PM and/or link to the correct thread would be appreciated.

Fleaman

Haven't you guys realized that Guitarman is working with Optoma? He is always going to say good things about the Optoma PJ's, no matter what, even when another unit is clearly better. I wouldn't give any type of weight to his reviews. I was planning to upgrade my 4805 to the HD72, now I'm not so sure. I'll be glad when some professional reviews like at Projectorcentral get out.

While I will agree with you that Guitarman has an obvious Optoma bias, I don't think Projector central reviews are that much less biased. Projector Centrals reviews on how the latest crop of Iris controlled LCD's were performing just as well or better than the current DLP's in the contrast dept. has been contradicted by just about everyone on these forums (who've made the comparison) including Art @ Projector reviews, who's opinions I value more.

It doesn't mean I don't still read P.C.'s reviews, I do. But I take them with a grain of salt as they seem to have an LCD bias to them.

Fleaman

Ix or Art,

I was really trying to convince myself to get the HD72 or IN76 (the winner of the two since I wanted to stay around $2K) but you (and a few other people) have me leaning more towards the H78DC3 now (ahh! :D )

My question now is does the H78DC3 have the brightness to be solid in my room?

I have a 1.3 gain, 133" screen that sits 24" off the ground. 10 ft ceilings (is that a problem with ceiling mounting?) and the room has about 24 feet to work with (from back wall to screen).

I don't know if the H78DC3 has enough brightness for that big of a screen. I have total control of all light in my room since it's a dedicated theater room.

Any help would be appreciated....I really want to finally finish off the equipment part of my room and I just can't decide on that projector lol :)

Again, while the HD72 is certainly bright that doesn't translate in to the H78DC3 being dim. That said 133'' (I assume you mean diagonal 16x9) is a pretty tall order there pardner. Going by the fancypants calculator over at ProjectorCentral, which is based off manufacturers specs and not calibrated real-world use, the HD72 would barely - barely - put out enough light at about 15 feet, max zoom, on a 1.3 gain screen, while the H78DC3 would not - it recommends at least 2.0 gain going by the calculator for that size screen.

That said, there are plenty of people using screens that large, or even larger, with projectors that put out even less lumens than the H78DC3, although usually that size falls in to the realm of LCD light cannons (or else PJ's way out of this budget range).

I would check out the $3500+ forum and check the H78DC3 and H79 threads to gauge how big the screens are in real world use, and go from there. I've only got 14 feet and 100'' diagonal to play with now so I can't help a lot here :)

Haven't you guys realized that Guitarman is working with Optoma? He is always going to say good things about the Optoma PJ's, no matter what, even when another unit is clearly better. I wouldn't give any type of weight to his reviews. I was planning to upgrade my 4805 to the HD72, now I'm not so sure. I'll be glad when some professional reviews like at Projectorcentral get out.

Hmmm .. did not know that -- perhaps he should put a disclaimer :)

Projectorreviews.com should have HD72 review by the end of the week, unless they are working with Optoma too :rolleyes:

Then I guess you can only trust your eyes and get ready for the restocking fee. :D

No offence, but projector Central is one of the worst sources for "good" info in a PJ purchase.

They never run greyscale
The never quote d65k
They never give absolute black level
etc.
How can anyone post a review for a PJ that is supposed to be proffesional without greyscale tracking, D65 lumen output, black level measurements.

Otherwise it's a one man forum with banner ads.....


All they are is us really?, but with advertisers and more backing...The reviewers are decent writers, but the technical writings and comparisons they have claimed made me lose stock in them a while back.

It's fun to read first hand accounts, but no 2k decision should be made from their suggestions, trust me.

Tom certainly has a bias towards Optoma, but he does work not for them. Just a loyal enthusiast that rings the bell for em when he gets the chance, he is however the closest thing to an employee of Optoma without actually "working" for them. They send him all the new PJs so he can post on em here.

good places for reviews that matter:

www.cine4home.de (the best even if it is in German)
www.hometheatermag.com
www.htprojectors.com

These all have true life specs to "get thru" the market specs and get the real world room results between similar units.


TJ

Hmmm .. did not know that -- perhaps he should put a disclaimer :)

Projectorreviews.com should have HD72 review by the end of the week, unless they are working with Optoma too :rolleyes:

Then I guess you can only trust your eyes and get ready for the restocking fee. :D

Yeah, Guitarman basically never says anything bad about Optoma. He gets loaner or maybe even free/gift projectors for his Optoma optimism in his reviews.

In the beginning (with the H30), he was basically a free agent and switched out his NEC HT1000 for the H30. His praise convinces many (including myself) to get an H30. It became obvious to Optoma that Guitarmans praise increased sales big time, and hence the ‘lobbying’ began. Admittedly there is some speculation in this in the fact that Guitarman hasn't admitted to working or getting compensation ($$) from Optoma, but he also doesn't deny he gets loaners or freebies from Optoma.

Art (@ projector reviews) OTOH seems to be much less biased. He notes his own personal PJ choices and while he's been running a BenQ, he had planned to replace it with the H78DC3, although a newer more expensive BenQ seemed to just win out in that contest. But best of all, Art seems to note most of the cons of the PJ's he reviews, without any noticeable bias towards a particular brand.

Anyway, Art's reviews along with other real world comparisons in these very forums, can give you a pretty good indicator of fairly unbiased observations. Guitarman does stick out as an Optoma fan, and he should probably disclose that a little in his reviews/opinions.

Fleaman

My HD72 has yet to arrive but the H78 vs. HD72 white crush comparison pics is a little disconcerting.

The HC3000 and HD72 are more comparable in brightness, DLP chips, and offset - except the HC3000 does not have the white segment on the color wheel. I've not fully gotten through the Mits HC3000 sticky so there could be a comparison already in there. I'm not sure about the IN76 yet.

Oddly enough installation of the H78DC3 won't work for me as the vertical shift range is with the lens aligning somewhere within the screen as opposed to outside the screen like the fixed offset projectors. Can a H78 owner verify this or am I wrong?

I have a beam in my theater I need to avoid with my "wife approved" ceiling mount. The WAF is lower for rear shelf or coffee table installations.

It's about 107% of the screen, which in non-projector geek terms means it can be a little above or a little below the top or bottom of the screen, offset wise.

It's not as flexible as the AE900u - damn but that thing just spoiled me as far as placement, I could have duct taped it to the rear wall and it would have worked - but it's not bad either. With a 10 foot ceiling you will definitely need an extension, but before your wife starts screaming lets' go crazy here and make some assumptions and do a little math. You might want to cozy up or grab someone's hand to hold because this can get a little scary; I am entering in to the realm of opinion/assumption here and there are some folks on this internet forum who get a little testy when people do that:

You have a 10 foot ceiling, so 120'' give or take a few mm depending on your builder and how much he had to drink the day he pulled out his level.

You have a screen that is around 49 inches high or so, which is what you would have in the 100 inch diagonal range.

Said screen is about 32 inches off the floor. This is what works for me, sitting in a regular couch. If you like to watch from recliners in the fully reclined position, or you sit on beanbags, or you like eating dinner Japanese-style on the floor while you watch movies then you will probably want it lower than that, but that is what works for me because sitting on a sofa (my sofa) it puts my line of vision about 33% up the screen.

So we do 49''+32''= 81'', 81'' - 120'' = 39''. That's the distance from your ceiling to the top of your screen.

Now, we have to factor in the distance to the center of the lens itself, which is about 2.5 inches on the H78DC3. Add in another 5 inches for the mount proper (my mount anyway, a Chief RPA series) and you get about 7.5 inches of drop.

Now take that 7.5 inches and subtract it from the 39 inches we calculated above. Mrs. Driscoll's 2nd grade math class in Thornville, PA circa 1976 taught me that equals 31.5 (that, and my built in Windows calculator, but why don't we keep that between us).

That leaves you with 31.5 inches of extension to deal with, also known as slightly over 2 and half feet. That isn't a lot as extensions go.

Now, as it happens, if you order from Projectorpeople (like I did, and ask for Ross if you do) not only will you get a nice price and $100 rebate on the H78DC3, and a free bulb to boot, but you will in fact get a free Optoma mount, made for the "H" series, which comes, in fact, with a 3 foot adjustable extension. I didn't need it myself but that is because I already had my other mount up and I am lazy. The mount is black, has cable routing, and in general sounds like it was custom designed for your needs.

Now, you can of course plug in your own numbers and draw your own conclusions, but hopefully you now see that the adjustable 107% offset of the H78DC3 is much better than the fixed 37% offset of the HD72 for the simple reason that you can always drop down from high ceilings but you can't go up with low ceilings :)

Art (@ projector reviews) OTOH seems to be much less biased. He notes his own personal PJ choices and while he's been running a BenQ, he had planned to replace it with the H78DC3, although a newer more expensive BenQ seemed to just win out in that contest. But best of all, Art seems to note most of the cons of the PJ's he reviews, without any noticeable bias towards a particular brand.

Anyway, Art's reviews along with other real world comparisons in these very forums, can give you a pretty good indicator of fairly unbiased observations. Guitarman does stick out as an Optoma fan, and he should probably disclose that a little in his reviews/opinions.

Fleaman

I believe Art is associated with an online retailer that probably sells most or all of the projectors he reviews. Having said that he does a decent job of evaluation. I just do not recall him reviewing anything that he didnt like pretty well. This has come up before and I believe Art volunteered the information concerning his association but I do not recall the details.

Well after owning the HD72 for awhile I am liking it more and more, but also less and less (if that's possible). Every single aspect of the HD72's performance I love, including the offset because I have a high ceiling. There's just one main issue with the HD72's peformance that keeps bugging me: the whites. I used guitarman's settings for component video and they were perfect. Colors, brightness, black levels, etc. all look outstanding. However, with everything else looking perfect the whites look "overblown" or "crushed"

It's possible it's your screen as well. I don't know much about the Carada BW but it is 1.4 gain and could be causing the crushed whites with such a bright projector. This is one of the reasons I couldn't stand HCCV which is 1.1. Do you have a another screen sample or maybe a blank peice of paper to compare it to?

Ok, pretty clear that HD72 (or any other DC2.5 PJs) are not going to be better than DC3 PJs.

But how is H78DC3 going to compare to new upcoming 1080P units ? I have 2 options:

1. Go for cheap solution: HD72. Keep it for 2-3 years until 1080P will become more affordable, buy 1080P.

2. More expensive: H78DC3. With picture that good, do you really need 1080P ?

I guess one can look at H78 as cheaper solution: you either don't upgrade (right :D ) or upgrade much later compared to HD72 therefore buying 1080 PJ at even lower price.

What do you think ?

Thanks, Davie.

Ok, pretty clear that HD72 (or any other DC2.5 PJs) are not going to be better than DC3 PJs.

But how is H78DC3 going to compare to new upcoming 1080P units ? I have 2 options:

1. Go for cheap solution: HD72. Keep it for 2-3 years until 1080P will become more affordable, buy 1080P.

2. More expensive: H78DC3. With picture that good, do you really need 1080P ?

I guess one can look at H78 as cheaper solution: you either don't upgrade (right :D ) or upgrade much later compared to HD72 therefore buying 1080 PJ at even lower price.

What do you think ?

Thanks, Davie.
I went with the H78DC3 figuring it would hold off my "upgrade-itis" longer since 1080p is no where close to affordable ($2-3k for my purposes)

It's possible it's your screen as well. I don't know much about the Carada BW but it is 1.4 gain and could be causing the crushed whites with such a bright projector. This is one of the reasons I couldn't stand HCCV which is 1.1. Do you have a another screen sample or maybe a blank peice of paper to compare it to?
I highly doubt it's the screen. The Carada BW material is almost identical to the Stewart Studiotek 130 material, which is "unoffically" known as the reference king of screens. It basically reflects back exactly what you project onto it, without varying the colors, black levels, etc. A gain of 1.4 might produce a "touch" of hotspotting, but certainly not what I'm seeing.

Here's a thought - since the HD72 has ample brightness, I think I may try a ND filter on it. I have NO experience with ND filters, so my obvious question is: which one should I buy? I looked on BH Photo Video's site and there's a million different sizes and brands and it's very confusing. Also, what's the difference between ND and ND2? Once I get some recommendations on which filters to buy to try out, I'll get them and then post my results and some new screenshots.

It's about 107% of the screen, which in non-projector geek terms means it can be a little above or a little below the top or bottom of the screen, offset wise.

:)

Thanks for answering my question Ix. This makes the H78 a candidate if the HD72 is not to my likeing. I have a 94" screen and a 7'6" drop ceiling. According to my initial calculations for the HD72:

90" floor to ceiling - 46" screen - 5" lens from ceiling - 14.8" fixed offset [129.6*tan(6.52)] = 24.1" from the floor. I didn't account for zoom differences so this could be worse.

This is 6" lower than I prefer for the screen, but pending I can keep the dog out of the picture viewing area I'm OK with that :)

The adjustable free ceiling mount and lamp for the H78 from projectorpeople certainly sweetens the deal for this projector ($600 value!). Power zoom, focus, DC3, and vertical optical lens shift are an added bonus as long as I don't have to drop the projector so low I hit it with my head (I'm 6'4"). Getting the wife to sign off on an additional $1400 is going to be difficult, especially since she thinks I'm crazy for upgrading the Z2 in the first place!

I'm holding out my opinion on white crush until I can see it in person. Guiterman says he doesn't see it after calibration - whether that's an Optoma biased opinion I cannot say. It's also very tough to get accurate contrast info from a digital camera. I have a nice Canon digital SLR myself and the contrast varys significantly from lens to lens and camera sensors.

Oh well, too many calculations for today - it's beer thirty anyhow...

OK - so I backed off the contrast from 9 to 5 (ironic recalibration) and now I think I have a happy medium where the picture still looks great but the whites are not so over the top. There are still certain scenes where they look a bit high, but 95% of the time it looks great. Here's my final settings for those interested (a couple minor changes from guitarman's):

Mode: sRGB
Contrast: 5
Brightness: 0
Color: 5
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 4

Advanced
Degamma: PC
Brilliant Color: Off
True Vivid: Off
Color Temp: 1
Image AI: Off

RGB Gain/Bias
Red Gain: 2
Green Gain: -2
Blue Gain: -1
Red Bias: -2
Green Bias: -1
Blue Bias: -1

Lamp Bright Mode: Off

Again, I am not taking credit for these settings. Basically I used guitarman's settings and then tweaked a couple minor things by eye until I was satisfied with the picture in my setup. I'm really interested in hearing a couple professional reviews about the HD72 vs the HC3000. The HC3000 SHOULD be slightly better based on the fact that it streets for about 1.25x the cost of the HD72. Based on the previous comparison it sounds like the HC3000 is a little better but I would still like to hear some additional opinions just for fun.

With all the talk of white levels, I must say that as I sat tonight watching the Olympics (after my minor tweak), I had no feelings of regret whatsoever over buying the HD72. On certain shots my 96" screen literally looked like a giant plasma screen, and what more could you want than that! It's not perfect, but it's well worth $2,000 for sure. I can't say for certain if it's the best sub $2,000 projector on the market, but I couldn't imagine getting better performance for the money. I still haven't had a chance to do a side by side with my friend's new Z4 but hopefully we'll do that this weekend. Cheers! :)

I believe Art is associated with an online retailer that probably sells most or all of the projectors he reviews. Having said that he does a decent job of evaluation. I just do not recall him reviewing anything that he didnt like pretty well. This has come up before and I believe Art volunteered the information concerning his association but I do not recall the details.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

What he does a lot are comparison opinions. He will clearly say that one projector has better contrast than the other. And/or that one projector has more natural colors than another.

Then he lets the reader decide for himself if that equates to a meaningful difference regarding performance vs. dollars.

I don't think you have to actually say one projector sucks over another. Besides, it's pretty subjective. What might suck to him may not be a big deal to another...hence the diplomacy involved in writing PJ reviews. But he will say one projector performs better than another in many different areas. This comparison type of review cuts through the mustard, so to speak.

I don't necessarily hold any conflict of interest against Art since his reviews 'appear' to be fairly un-biased. I think just being human makes anyone biased, but we all try not to be, and some are more successful than others. Considering the circumstances (his relations with projector dealers), I think he does a pretty good job. Hell of a lot better than Projector Central IMO.

Fleaman

2. More expensive: H78DC3. With picture that good, do you really need 1080P ?

What do you think ?

Thanks, Davie.

I think that when you see 1080p you won't think quite as highly as 720p. :)

At correct HD positioning the difference is 40 pixels per degree vs 60. Meaning with 20/20 vision you shouldn't be able to see the pixel structure as much (ignoring for the moment the ability to see thin horizontal and verticle lines).

Or you get to sit closer for a bigger theater feel.

HD (1080p) is a fairly minimal spec for replicating the theater. Its the equivalent of sitting in the last row of the theater.

Nigel

HD (1080p) is a fairly minimal spec for replicating the theater. Its the equivalent of sitting in the last row of the theater.

Nigel

You must visit some teeny tiny theaters. :D I find that typical theaters these days have a screen of about 30' - 32' wide and depth of about 80' to 90'. Sitting in the last row of one of these would be the equivelent of sitting away from the screen 2.5 - 3 times the screen width. Why bother?

Also, in terms of replicating the theater, your statement that 1080P is a minimal spec is a bit elitist. We are talking about typical "home theater" applications here, not 4K digital cinema applications.

Yeah, Guitarman basically never says anything bad about Optoma. He gets loaner or maybe even free/gift projectors for his Optoma optimism in his reviews.


I would have nothing bad to say either, if I got my projectors for free.

[QUOTE=rsmith4321]Haven't you guys realized that Guitarman is working with Optoma? He is always going to say good things about the Optoma PJ's, no matter what, even when another unit is clearly better. I wouldn't give any type of weight to his reviews. I was planning to upgrade my 4805 to the HD72, now I'm not so sure. I'll be glad when some professional reviews like at Projectorcentral get out.[/QUOTE

Lol, I see this thread's turned real classy. :)

Right, I was wrong about the H30, the H31, the H77, the H79. So I must be wrong about the H72 also.

If you want to upgrade the H77 H78 and H79 look better. The HD72 is good for larger screens or anybody that likes a light cannon. Funny my wife had a bad comment about the HD72, she says it has too much contrast. :)

Gotta go to a car auction, have fun. :)

You must visit some teeny tiny theaters. :D I find that typical theaters these days have a screen of about 30' - 32' wide and depth of about 80' to 90'. Sitting in the last row of one of these would be the equivelent of sitting away from the screen 2.5 - 3 times the screen width. Why bother?

Also, in terms of replicating the theater, your statement that 1080P is a minimal spec is a bit elitist. We are talking about typical "home theater" applications here, not 4K digital cinema applications.

A "bit" elitist? :). I thought I was stretching it discussing the H78DC3 here, even though these days it qualifies for this forum. How 1080p comes up in the under $3500 forum is beyond me. Sure it's better. It's also at least 4 times the price, street, of the projector this thread is about :) :)

Like a lot of Home Theater people, I think the whole "exact duplication" of the theater experience is a bit overblown; that, or some of you have some really, really nice movie theaters near you. I prefer my theater room with measly 720p to any movie theater within driving distance of my house for so many reasons - more comfortable, better sound and better tuned sound, no screaming kids or idiot teens, gum on the seats, 30 minutes of commercials, etc. As for the picture, these days I'm lucky if I watch a movie in a "real" theater that has a quality print instead of one that was farmed out 10,000 times to the lowest bidding processing plant, and a projectionist that bothers to get the picture in sharp focus. In other words, mass-market movie theaters aren't what they used to be.

Now, if done right, it's a fine experience. There is exactly one theater here in Austin - and you'd think if they were going to do theaters right outside of L.A. it'd be here - that had Episode 3 in full digital glory, and it was in fact quite an experience. But you know what? Episode 3 on DVD through my Oppo/H78DC3 is still pretty darn amazing, because that's how far the technology has come. The movie theater business can bitch about home releases hitting the shelves too quick after release, or piracy, or rising oil costs or whatever, but the fact is that they are digging their own grave.

I know none of this is particularly relevant to this thread so I'll shoehorn this in and hope no one notices: I would take the HD72, a dedicated room, and a half-decent surround system over any theater in my area. If movies came out at the same time for home use - and it's trending that way - I would never bother with a movie theater at all.

Seconded, the "abandon all movie theatres all ye who enter here" notion. Theatres are for kids with noplace to go on the weekends and people looking for a place to burn up some time on a date.

You can't do any serious movie watching in a modern theatre, what with them leaving the lights 1/2 off so nobody trips and sues them, the 30 minutes of commercials, the jerkwads with cellphones or text messengers or the group of 10 people who show up, the drunks, the people who can't keep their mouths shut...and that one guy and girl who laugh at everything, even when its not funny :)

As for 1080p barely keeping up with Film, I say: hogwash. Quote all the specs you like, I haven't seen a good movie print in ages in any movie theatre. The DVD version of Episode III I own looks far better than the megaplex screen I saw it on when it was released. And I'm watching at 480p (!!!!).....

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I would never bother with a movie theater at all.

Now you do have the Alamo Drafthouse in Austin- they serve cold beer and food while you watch the movie! Now that's pretty sweet....

I agree though. 1080p is getting overhyped. Don't get me wrong, I'll probably upgrade to that in 2-4 years when it reaches the more sane <$2000 market. I just don't think you'll see an 3-4 times picture improvement for 3-4 times the price.

720p is still pretty amazing, not to mention the hassles of DVI switchers and cables handling 1080p signals over long distances (not mature yet with sketchy support) I've finally got my whole system to fully support 720p, and I don't want to open that box of worms again...

Thanks for your updated settings myapplebuddy, I have a feeling I'll get mine tuned as well as yours and be extremely happy. One of the main reasons I'm upgrading from 720p LCD is better black level (check - DLP), brighter (check 1300 lumens vs 800), and cost (check, first time a 720p dlp has crossed the sub $2k msrp barrier). It will be a pain to install, but that's a one time hassle. I don't have a huge 100"+ screen so the offset is less of an issue for me.

I should expect the H78 picture to be much better as it costs 70% more! I'd prefer to save that until I get upgradeitus again when 1080p drops to sane price levels or use it for a nice video scalar - or take my wife out to dinner more often, like tonight...I know what she prefers from these choices.

Guitarman - I really appreciate your reviews - I've never seen overt and unscientific bias in them like the hype out of projectorcentral, although I do use there "fancypants" calculators quite often! :)

Cheers,
Mike

Seconded, the "abandon all movie theatres all ye who enter here" notion. Theatres are for kids with noplace to go on the weekends and people looking for a place to burn up some time on a date.

You can't do any serious movie watching in a modern theatre, what with them leaving the lights 1/2 off so nobody trips and sues them, the 30 minutes of commercials, the jerkwads with cellphones or text messengers or the group of 10 people who show up, the drunks, the people who can't keep their mouths shut...and that one guy and girl who laugh at everything, even when its not funny :)

As for 1080p barely keeping up with Film, I say: hogwash. Quote all the specs you like, I haven't seen a good movie print in ages in any movie theatre. The DVD version of Episode III I own looks far better than the megaplex screen I saw it on when it was released. And I'm watching at 480p (!!!!).....

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..and lets not forget the A-hole with the really nifty laser pointer.