@Uatatoka

I am sorry but you shot looks over white also. Perhaps it is your camera but Leloo has no natural skin color .... looks much too white.

k

I disagree- I know Leeloo has a bright white light being shown on her face at this point in the movie. Look how dialated her pupils are! It does not appear to me that this shot is over white, but actually more white in nature.

kevivoe, check out Art's review (http://projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD72/index.asp) and screenshots (http://projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD72/imagequality.asp) of the HD-72 if you are worried about over white/white crush.

@Uatatoka

I am sorry but you shot looks over white also. Perhaps it is your camera but Leloo has no natural skin color .... looks much too white.

k

Perhaps it's the camera, or just the movies intent with the giant cop car spotlight in her face - or both. I'll post some more screenshots of Leeloo this evening to see for sure.

Here is Art's 2 shots. Top is Sim2 bottom is HD72. The HD72 looks more blown out to me ??

Whatever the spelling.

Focus on her bottom lip. Overblown in the HD72 and more detail in the top photo (Sim2).

k

Here is Art's 2 shots. Top is Sim2 bottom is HD72. The HD72 looks more blown out to me ??

Whatever the spelling.

Focus on her bottom lip. Overblown in the HD72 and more detail in the top photo (Sim2).

k

I guess I don't see it K. Neither look 'blown out', and the bottom (HD72) looks like it has far more detail. Look at the eyebrows and upper lip, far more definition with the HD72. I don't even notice a difference on the bottom lip. The sim looks a little darker and softer too me I guess, which may be your preference. The shot should convey brightness, while not losing detail, with a spotlight in her face.

Mike

Don't get me wrong Mike. The HD72 for the money is one heck of a PJ. Viewed by itself without the Sim2 image next to it would be acceptable.

The Sim2 is more "film like" I guess ... but what if we want HDTV and not film? I sure will be watching much more HDTV/SDTV than movies so I am looking for that "next PJ" and the HD72 is on my list.

k

I have a question about using an HD72 in a table mounted setup with a 106" Graywolf screen - I know the projector has an offset of about 1/3 screen height. I would be using the projector in the widest mode of its lens. From what I've read the projector will need to be about 17" below the screen, which puts it about 8-10" off the floor. This is pretty close to what I can accomodate.
My question is will the Graywolf be providing good gain at the normal viewing heights (sitting on a sofa)? I know the HD72 is fairly bright at this point, but as the bulb dims, I'd like to retain good brightness. Also I may want to use filters to dial in the picture I need. I'd really like good ambient light rejection from the Graywolf.
Any comments would be appreciated - thanks!


Seth,

I had the 92" graywolf and HD72 table mounted when I first got it. The gain and viewing cone of the graywolf helped give optimal side ambient light rejection, but the picture was super bright given 1.8 gain. ND filter would be recommended here. If ceiling mounted the gain goes down to about 0.9 or so.

I have a 120" Carada 2.35 fixed screen coming Thursday. I decided to get the brilliant white material (gain of 1.4) for the same reason. I have 2 ND filters (1/2 F stop and a full F stop) which will provide 25% and 50% brightness reduction. This way I'll get good side or scattered ambient light rejection with the slight gain screen, the ability to tone down the brightness when the bulb is new with the filters, and as the bulb ages remove the filters to bring back some punch to the image to keep the bulb going longer.

I had a dim Z2 previously and replaced the bulb every 700-1200 hours which is not fun. I think I can avoid this now with this new setup...

Mike

I think we're giving up the sellar deinterlacing for the picture quality we see with HTPC. Tuff choice

Are you suggesting letting the projector do the deinterlacing? A local media company recommends not using DVI due to the same instability I'm experiencing and to use component or VGA. Component should allow the video card to pass an interlaced signal and let the projector deinterlase, but at the cost of the HTPC scaling.

Are you suggesting letting the projector do the deinterlacing? A local media company recommends not using DVI due to the same instability I'm experiencing and to use component or VGA. Component should allow the video card to pass an interlaced signal and let the projector deinterlase, but at the cost of the HTPC scaling.


I don't think it is instability with the DVI input. I'm using an HTPC with AGP ATI card and it works great as well as my OPPO DVI dvd player 720p output. I suspect you may be seeing a EDID handshake issue or a 720p setting that is borderline. You may want to try powerstrip - it has some different standard 720p settings that the HD72 may sync with better.

Well I'm back from holiday so I'll be posting more often again. I called Optoma about the reset issue today and they're going to do an advanced replacement for me soon. That means they'll charge my credit card, send me a new one, and then reimburse me when my reset-prone HD72 arrives back at their HQ. They can't do the replacement right now because there is a hold on their inventory. Apparently they're in the process of updating the firmware on all the current stock so that the reset issue won't happen on any new shipments. Then I'm assuming they have some orders to fill before they can replace mine. So the good news for me is that a brand new unit will be on the way shortly and my problems will be history!

Well I'm back from holiday so I'll be posting more often again. I called Optoma about the reset issue today and they're going to do an advanced replacement for me soon. That means they'll charge my credit card, send me a new one, and then reimburse me when my reset-prone HD72 arrives back at their HQ. They can't do the replacement right now because there is a hold on their inventory. Apparently they're in the process of updating the firmware on all the current stock so that the reset issue won't happen on any new shipments. Then I'm assuming they have some orders to fill before they can replace mine. So the good news for me is that a brand new unit will be on the way shortly and my problems will be history!

Welcome back! Hope you and your wife had a great trip in South Africa, not including the 25-30 hours of flying each way of course...that's just brutal with the time change.

I think I will try an advanced replacement as well. I don't want to give up my HD72 even for a few days...when did they say the'll be finished upgrading all the untis and start shipping again?

Mike

Welcome back! Hope you and your wife had a great trip in South Africa, not including the 25-30 hours of flying each way of course...that's just brutal with the time change.

On the way back we started in Durban and ended up in Spokane so it was actually 42 hours of straight planes and airports for us. Brutal! It was a fantastic trip though and well worth all the travelling.

I think I will try an advanced replacement as well. I don't want to give up my HD72 even for a few days...when did they say the'll be finished upgrading all the untis and start shipping again?
I just sent my serial number in today to get the process moving but I don't have any specifics on a timeframe yet. I'll post as soon as I hear any further details.

Regarding syncing, my HD72 has perfectly sync'd to everything I've tried. DirecTV HD DVR via 35' Monoprice HDMI to DVI-D cable, OPPO DVD player via 35' Monoprice DVI-D to HDMI cable, composite video from receiver's OSD, component video from old JVC DVD player, and my Dell laptop via a VGA to DVI conversion cable from Fry's. All perfect.

I disagree- I know Leeloo has a bright white light being shown on her face at this point in the movie. Look how dialated her pupils are! It does not appear to me that this shot is over white, but actually more white in nature.


I hate to quibble, but pupils constrict when exposed to bright light, so this doesn't help your case, IMHO.

Are you suggesting letting the projector do the deinterlacing? A local media company recommends not using DVI due to the same instability I'm experiencing and to use component or VGA. Component should allow the video card to pass an interlaced signal and let the projector deinterlase, but at the cost of the HTPC scaling.

I'm a HTPC newbie and I did setup via DVI. That's another loss of quality if we have to go VGA/analog. I hv the HPTC but use a Panasonic S97 mainly. Another thing is the Pany has a remote. :)

Don't get me wrong Mike. The HD72 for the money is one heck of a PJ. Viewed by itself without the Sim2 image next to it would be acceptable.

The Sim2 is more "film like" I guess ... but what if we want HDTV and not film? I sure will be watching much more HDTV/SDTV than movies so I am looking for that "next PJ" and the HD72 is on my list.

k


That HD72 screen shot looks markedly better than the Sim2 in almost every way. Better detail, brightness, color.

Another thing is the Pany has a remote. :)

Have you tried a Streamzap or a PDA with NetRemote? Very cool stuff, although I don't know if I'll go back to an HTPC anytime soon. There's nothing quite like a good standalone - it just WORKS:)

I hate to quibble, but pupils constrict when exposed to bright light, so this doesn't help your case, IMHO.

Yeah, I thought of that after I posted but didn't get a chance to edit. I should have noted how UN-dialated her pupils are! I knew someone would bring it up. And I still think this helps the case.

Ryan

kevivoe, check out Art's review (http://projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD72/index.asp) and screenshots (http://projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD72/imagequality.asp) of the HD-72 if you are worried about over white/white crush.

Nice review, but 390 x 167 pixel screen shots don't mean a thing in judging picture quality. Too bad the pics couldn't be posted as downloadable large screen images.

Nice review, but 390 x 167 pixel screen shots don't mean a thing in judging picture quality. Too bad the pics couldn't be posted as downloadable large screen images.

Neither do full size screen shots....they are still screen shots.

But, when doing a side by side comparison between another projector, the screen shots can sometimes show differences, even small screen shots in Art's review.

Fleaman

Neither do full size screen shots....they are still screen shots.

This is very true. It is always best to try and see it in person. As Art mentions in his review this is projector tough to expose properly and get all the details.

I certainly think I overexposed my earlier image a little bit. I have some much better screenshots coming later today that I took last night and was careful not to overexpose. I learned letting my camera set the exposure automatically was not as accurate in representing what I was seeing on screen...

That HD72 screen shot looks markedly better than the Sim2 in almost every way. Better detail, brightness, color.

Wow, I myself have the contrary opinion.

k

Wow, I myself have the contrary opinion.

k
Keep posted for my next screenshots k. I turned off all the bonus features (brilliant color, vivid color, etc...) and did a fresh avia cal afterwards to get a more 'filmlike image'. I was pretty impressed with the results and the adjustability of the HD72, although you may still fancy the sim2 for film sources.

I'm about to purchase this projector for my light controlled theater. What is a good pull down screen for the HD72 in a dark room (complete light control)? I'd like to spend less than $500 if possible.

I'm about to purchase this projector for my light controlled theater. What is a good pull down screen for the HD72 in a dark room (complete light control)? I'd like to spend less than $500 if possible.

I'm about to purchase this projector for my light controlled theater. What is a good pull down screen for the HD72 in a dark room (complete light control)? I'd like to spend less than $500 if possible.
At that budget I would get the Optoma Graywolf, costs half that much as well. You can get it in 92" and 106" flavors.

I'm about to purchase this projector for my light controlled theater. What is a good pull down screen for the HD72 in a dark room (complete light control)? I'd like to spend less than $500 if possible.

Pull down non tensioned screens are notorious for showing waves and with video. You have three choices on material that may have waves but at least when video shines on them it's hard to see any waves, if not at all.

Dalite Mat White, High Power, or the Optoma Graywolf. Since you're most likely ceiling mounting the PJ any of those would be very good.

Thanks, guys.

I've read a lot about the Graywolf...i'm leaning that way until I can afford a tensioned screen later.

What kind of viewing angle does this screen work well with? And how far from the wall does the screen end up being once mounted? Enough clearance over a door knob?

The case is thin and sits pretty flush. You'll hv to use short L-brackets. Which are useful because you can find some with small holes at the ends for shelf mounting. Use this with steel hooks that have threads and you have an ideal way of balancing the screen.

Here's another go at some Fifth Element screenshots. I wonder if Milla Jovovich realizes how many times she's shown on this forum...

HD72 with brilliant color, true vivid, and ImageAI disabled. AVIA tuned. Camera shot by manually set exposure to best match screen image.

120" 2.35 screen image on test blackout cloth, you'll have to ignore the wrinkles in the material seen on the right in intro.jpg. Carada arriving tomorrow (can't wait).

http://i45.imagethrust.com/images/1qVS/view-image/hand.html
http://i46.imagethrust.com/images/1qVT/view-image/intro.html
http://i45.imagethrust.com/images/1qVO/view-image/lilu-1.html
http://i46.imagethrust.com/images/1qVP/view-image/lilu-2.html
http://i46.imagethrust.com/images/1qVQ/view-image/lilu-3.html
http://i46.imagethrust.com/images/1qW3/view-image/lilu-4.html
http://i45.imagethrust.com/images/1qVR/view-image/lilu-5.html

Mike

Other settings:
PC gamma setting(2.2)
Oppo brightness -3 (video levels)
Lamp hours ~110

I'm not sure if this is a firmware bug or not, but the source lock option always goes back to "off" when I power off the projector.

It's kind of a hassle since it auto sources to my ReplayTV on the composite input instead of my 6412 moto on the hdmi one. It skips right past an active hdmi or dvi source and goes to the composite ReplayTV, even though it is off.

I keep adding 5 second delays to the startup activity on my harmony remote and now have to point the remote at the HD72 for 25 seconds.

Pull down non tensioned screens are notorious for showing waves and with video. You have three choices on material that may have waves but at least when video shines on them it's hard to see any waves, if not at all.
.

In still shots....but once the camera pans, any wave is easily visible.

Fleaman

At that budget I would get the Optoma Graywolf, costs half that much as well. You can get it in 92" and 106" flavors.

Do you have an Optoma Graywolf? I really like this projector, but could do without the sparkly image on this screen.

Then buy the Mat White or High Power. I use the Graywolf exclusively, I take no time out to linger on texture, I just see a great image. I have white walls and ceiling so the Graywolf makes sense to me. If you have a total dark room the others would be an ok choice.

Do you have an Optoma Graywolf? I really like this projector, but could do without the sparkly image on this screen.

I tried one with my old projector, but no longer use it.

Hi just got my HD72 and I am starting to play round with ffdshow,, any 1 else using ffdshow with this PJ if so what are your settings ?

@Uatatoka

You have it really dialed in now. Much more "film like" in my opinion. You'll probably have to repeat a few adjustments once the brighter screen is in place.

For SDTV/HDTV your probably want some of those other features activated. Probably from some of the animation movies too. I'll bet Nemo looks fantastic with BC on.

Can you do a setup on the HD72 for "my_film" and "my_TV" and "my_animation" so that you just load those presets depending on what you want to watch?

K

Tom........ the Optoma folks at CES said the Greywolf was going to be coming out in a fixed frame as well as in larger sizes........

Do you have any info as to when this is going to happen?

@Uatatoka

Can you do a setup on the HD72 for "my_film" and "my_TV" and "my_animation" so that you just load those presets depending on what you want to watch?

K

Yes, there are 5 place holders (film, TV, sRGB, graphics, and user) you can store these presets under. These 5 can also be unique for each input, and even each resolution under component.

I'm really happy with how much adjustability and unique setting storage this has over my old Sanyo Z2 - it took quite a while to learn it all though...flash memory just keeps getting denser and cheaper I suppose.

Got my second reset yesterday. Time for a hot swap for the latest firmware that cures this. That's my only complaint so far - but Optoma is handling this MUCH better than the service I got from Sanyo, which is why it bothers me so little.

Mike

Doesn't it seem like the Da Lite HCCV would be a good choice for screen at 110"?

On the other hand, it would be nice to get the new 720DLP at the decent price and be able to enjoy it for as long as possible until the next upgrade hits at around the same price (can anyone say 1080p at 2-3g's!) yeah, I know...wishful thinkin :rolleyes:

Resolution:
1280 x 768 native
UXGA (1600 x 1200) PC Max
1080p (1920 x 1080) Video Max

Since the Video Max for this projector is 1080p, will it be able to handle Sony Blu-Ray players?

I've attached the specs in .pdf

What is the maximum distance from the screen that an H72 can be placed to feed a 100" screen.

VB1

What is the maximum distance from the screen that an H72 can be placed to feed a 100" screen.

VB1

Check out this website, paragraph 3:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_hd72.htm

Thanks. Now what type of projector would throw up to 30 feet.

VB1

I guess I don't see it K. Neither look 'blown out', and the bottom (HD72) looks like it has far more detail. Look at the eyebrows and upper lip, far more definition with the HD72. I don't even notice a difference on the bottom lip. The sim looks a little darker and softer too me I guess, which may be your preference. The shot should convey brightness, while not losing detail, with a spotlight in her face.

Mike

Wow, I never expected anyone to compare the images of the Sim2 and the HD72 together... I should have used the same frame, same zoom, etc.

I just started standardizing on several frames, you'll see this same frame of the Sim2 in the InFocus 777 on several images.

I really like the HD72, its got so much going for it, brightness, good color saturation, and very respectable black levels, and its real weaknesses really relate to room placement issues...

But I watched several segments of the 5th Element LOTR, and others on both the HD72 and the Sim2 within 24 hours of each other.

There really is no comparison... I can't describe it any better than to say this... The difference between a first class 3 chip with darkchip3 like the Sim2 and a great single chip Darkchip2 projector (yes even with "Brilliantcolor"), is almost mind blowing... Even my BenQ 8720 (single Darkchip3) doesn't come close to the Sim2. There is not just the expected difference in black levels (forget my 8720, I'm talking HD72 vs C3x), but there is what I would describe as a couple of magnitudes difference in depth - a realism, 3Dish sense with the C3X...

And when watching highly dynamic scenes like the space explosions from Starship Troopers (sorry, didn't have that disk when I shot the HD72 imates), I can best describe the differnces this way.

You know how when you switch from watching something on an HDTV channel, in HDTV, and then quickly switch to the same content on regular non HDTV channel... we all know the resolution goes to hell, but other big differences relate to color balance, color accuracy, gamma, etc. Typically I find that the "regular channel is darkish, dull, over saturated, fuzzy, muddy, etc.

Well, go from the Sim2 C3X to my BenQ, and that description just above, is what it's like, the benq is like watching that scene on regular TV.... and even more so, with the HD72... (at least the HD72 is brighter than my 8720). I don't like the term "night and day", but let's just say the difference is rather amazing...

The dynamic differnces between 3 chip and single chip is just stunning, at least between those two single chip's and the C3X.... The InFocus 777 is not as spectacular as the C3X, but then, it's also more "forgiving".

Didn't start this to ramble about 3 chip projectors, but the difference is really great.

Much of what some are trying to read into the same image on the C3X and HD72, and blown out whites, etc., is probably more to do with the fact that the exposure of the images are a little different in terms of over and under, and the limits of my digital camera. - which I hope to replace later this year with one that can at least come close to the dynamic range of these projectors... (digital cameras - even SLR's are single chip, what is really needed is a 3 chip camera I think. I may look into one of the 3 chip HDTV camcorders..

Anyway, the HD72 is a great value... In particular, when watching non-movies and wanting some ambient light in the room, you really start appreciating what having significantly more "horsepower" than most of the competition really means. -art

BTW,

I posted a new article a few days ago with quick comparisons of under $2000 (US) projectors - between the HD72, the Panny 900u, Sanyo Z4 and BenQ 7700. It's basically a strength and weaknesses of each in one (for me) relatively short article with links to all the reviews... You'll find it first on my homepage.

PS, on the previous email, I mentioned that room placement issues were the HD72's biggest problem... True, but a remote with more range would have been nice too! (definitely not a deal breaker though!) -a

Presenter (Art),

Nice clarification. Just shows how little screenshots do a projector justice and the camera being a big part of the problem. I have a nice digital SLR + pro lens combo and still have a heck of a time nailing down the image correctly.

It's nice to know a projector 10x the price of the 72 blows it out of the water picture wise - as one would hope. Three chip DLP is definitely my next upgrade once they drop out of orbit in price...

Mike

Hi there from Greece,

I have read almost the whole thread of 44 pages so far and i'm about to give it a shot and buy this valuable as it seems projector (Themescene HD72i for Europe). This will be my first one by the way.

Some questions though:

1. I have read somewhere in the thread that Guitarman had measured the brightness of the projector after about 100 hours or so and found a big degradation of the lumens. Is this true or i'm misunderstanding something? If its true how can you guys with many hours on the projector (more than 100) describe the loss of brightness? Is this a bright projector for only a limited amount of time after all?

2. Can someone say for sure if the big threaded hole for mounting the PJ on a tripod can also be used for hanging the PJ from the ceiling? Ix was not sure about that.

3. Anybody seen the INFOCUS IN76 yet and if so what is the verdict between the 2. Here in Greece unlike US, the Infocus sells at about 10% LESS than the Optoma so if the picture and everything else is comparable then the Infocus is a better value for us. I have seen myself the IN74 next to HD72 but this was an unfair battle (Optoma was better of course).

Thanks in advance. Keep up the good work on this site.

Resolution:
1280 x 768 native
UXGA (1600 x 1200) PC Max
1080p (1920 x 1080) Video Max

Since the Video Max for this projector is 1080p, will it be able to handle Sony Blu-Ray players?

I've attached the specs in .pdf

Anyone care to comment on this?

Resolution:
1280 x 768 native
UXGA (1600 x 1200) PC Max
1080p (1920 x 1080) Video Max

Since the Video Max for this projector is 1080p, will it be able to handle Sony Blu-Ray players?

I've attached the specs in .pdf

1280 x 768 = 1.66:1.

Is this right given that "widescreen projectors" are supposed to 1.78:1 or 1280 x 720...

Mark

HD72 (and BenQ 8720) are no contest compared to the Sim2. In performance and price unfortunately.

What makes a Sim2 C3X LITE worth $16k MSRP? Can it be found online for purchase? It's not 3 projectors in 1, it still has only 1 lens .... the DMD's can't be that expensive or we wouldn't have $2000 PJ's. It's got to be the performance.

k

2. Can someone say for sure if the big threaded hole for mounting the PJ on a tripod can also be used for hanging the PJ from the ceiling? Ix was not sure about that.


I tried using the big hole to ceiling mount the projector. I'm not comfortable with using it exclusively. The bottom of the plastic casing bows out probably 5mm or more when this mounting hole is supporting the weight of the pj. I don't know whether or not this would cause a problem in the long run, but I didn't want to risk it--the manual specifically states that damage from improper mounting will void the warranty. I initially mounted with the large hole and two of the smaller holes, but then ended up using the small holes exclusively to get the position I needed.

1280 x 768 = 1.66:1.

Is this right given that "widescreen projectors" are supposed to 1.78:1 or 1280 x 720...

Mark

Yes, this is right. There is no official standard that says what projectors are "supposed" to be. TI supposedly made this new chip to allow the same chip to be used in a larger array of projectors. If a company is making a predominant business pj, then the chip does 1024x768 natively. If a company like Optoma wants to put the chip in a HT PJ, then it can also do 1280x720 natively. It is an interesting compromise on the manufacturing side, but only the market will determine if it is a profitable one.

You can run the HD72 in 1280x720 mode where it basically turns the extra 28 verticle lines black. Then you are back to a 1.78:1 PJ.

Yes, this is right. There is no official standard that says what projectors are "supposed" to be. TI supposedly made this new chip to allow the same chip to be used in a larger array of projectors. If a company is making a predominant business pj, then the chip does 1024x768 natively. If a company like Optoma wants to put the chip in a HT PJ, then it can also do 1280x720 natively. It is an interesting compromise on the manufacturing side, but only the market will determine if it is a profitable one.

You can run the HD72 in 1280x720 mode where it basically turns the extra 28 verticle lines black. Then you are back to a 1.78:1 PJ.

What about their 1080p (1920 x 1080) Video Max

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=54683

Hi there from Greece,

2. Can someone say for sure if the big threaded hole for mounting the PJ on a tripod can also be used for hanging the PJ from the ceiling? Ix was not sure about that.


I wouldn't use the tripod hole for ceiling mounting. Use the proper mounting holes as intended. The multiple points distribute the stress of the projector weight evenly across the projector They're probably reinforced more than the tripod mount.

If you think about it, when using the tripod mount, the weight of the projector is pressing down onto the tripod further securing it. Upside down it is pulling away...

Final word (maybe) on my SDE issue with my HD72. I have a real screen now (110"), and SDE still bugs me pretty good at 1.5x and even greater. I notice it constantly on almost all material. Sitting 1.5x I feel like I am watching a matrix of individual pixels.

Well, this morning I went to have a follow-up exam after my custom LASIK surgery 3 months ago, and I have almost 20/10 vision. I can read the entire 20/15 line easily, and 3 letters on the 20/10 line. Dr. said my vision is better than 99% of humans. I can read some letters at 20 feet that a "normal" person could read at 10 feet. The 20/10 letters are tiny, like 1/8" letters at 20 feet and I could read some of them.

I guess that explains why I can see SDE on a 1280x720p DLP at 2x screen width. I joked with the doc he needs to pony up the $ for me to get a 1080p projector, so it doesn't bug me. ;)

Bottom line is the proj is fine, I have exceptional visual acuity. Case closed on SDE, until I can afford 1080p!

Since the Video Max for this projector is 1080p, will it be able to handle Sony Blu-Ray players?


Just about any projector can 'handle' the Blu-ray player as it should output more than just 1080p (480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc.) selectably. The HD72 could handle any of these resolutions, but the best would still be 720p as that is a native resolution supported by the projector. Anything else would require some sort of signal processing by the projector which is less desireable.

Here's a couple photos of my HD72 ceiling mounted with the Chief RPA-U. (haven't painted walls yet)

Also my first attempt at a screen shot. Still learning to get the exposure right.

Did everyone see this new HD72 review? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=659488

Hi there from Greece,

I have read almost the whole thread of 44 pages so far and i'm about to give it a shot and buy this valuable as it seems projector (Themescene HD72i for Europe). This will be my first one by the way.

Some questions though:

1. I have read somewhere in the thread that Guitarman had measured the brightness of the projector after about 100 hours or so and found a big degradation of the lumens. Is this true or i'm misunderstanding something? If its true how can you guys with many hours on the projector (more than 100) describe the loss of brightness? Is this a bright projector for only a limited amount of time after all?

2. Can someone say for sure if the big threaded hole for mounting the PJ on a tripod can also be used for hanging the PJ from the ceiling? Ix was not sure about that.

3. Anybody seen the INFOCUS IN76 yet and if so what is the verdict between the 2. Here in Greece unlike US, the Infocus sells at about 10% LESS than the Optoma so if the picture and everything else is comparable then the Infocus is a better value for us. I have seen myself the IN74 next to HD72 but this was an unfair battle (Optoma was better of course).

Thanks in advance. Keep up the good work on this site.


To answer your questions in order:
1) Every projector bulb is brightest in the first 100 hrs. All projectors dim over time so the HD72 is not better or worse in this area.
2) During install I looked into the tripod mounting hole and it is defintely not meant to support the weight of the projector upside down in a ceiling mount configuration. It is only designed to support the weight right side up. Use the 4 smaller screwholes for the ceiling mount.
3) On paper the IN76 offers more and not much less than the HD72. I'd be hard pressed to take the HD72 over the IN76 if the HD72 were priced higher. That's not the case in the US though.

I don't think anyone has seen the IN76 in action yet besides the guys at IF - that should change in the next few weeks though.

Final word (maybe) on my SDE issue with my HD72. I have a real screen now (110"), and SDE still bugs me pretty good at 1.5x and even greater. I notice it constantly on almost all material. Sitting 1.5x I feel like I am watching a matrix of individual pixels.

Well, this morning I went to have a follow-up exam after my custom LASIK surgery 3 months ago, and I have almost 20/10 vision. I can read the entire 20/15 line easily, and 3 letters on the 20/10 line. Dr. said my vision is better than 99% of humans. I can read some letters at 20 feet that a "normal" person could read at 10 feet. The 20/10 letters are tiny, like 1/8" letters at 20 feet and I could read some of them.
!

Maybe you should wear glasses to cut down on the SDE. :p

Interesting idea... My idea was a 3-chip 1080p DLP. ;)

(and a 2nd mortgage to get it!)

Final word (maybe) on my SDE issue with my HD72. I have a real screen now (110"), and SDE still bugs me pretty good at 1.5x and even greater. I notice it constantly on almost all material. Sitting 1.5x I feel like I am watching a matrix of individual pixels.

Well, this morning I went to have a follow-up exam after my custom LASIK surgery 3 months ago, and I have almost 20/10 vision. I can read the entire 20/15 line easily, and 3 letters on the 20/10 line. Dr. said my vision is better than 99% of humans. I can read some letters at 20 feet that a "normal" person could read at 10 feet. The 20/10 letters are tiny, like 1/8" letters at 20 feet and I could read some of them.

I guess that explains why I can see SDE on a 1280x720p DLP at 2x screen width. I joked with the doc he needs to pony up the $ for me to get a 1080p projector, so it doesn't bug me. ;)

Bottom line is the proj is fine, I have exceptional visual acuity. Case closed on SDE, until I can afford 1080p!


Not doubting on what your seeing. But I thought SDE was only prone to LCD's and RBE was prone to DLP's. Please feel free to correct me on this.

Not doubting on what your seeing. But I thought SDE was only prone to LCD's and RBE was prone to DLP's. Please feel free to correct me on this.

Both LCD and DLP images are made up of pixels/mirrors. The gaps between the mirrors of DLP chips is narrower than that of LCD panel pixels and as such screen door has been much less of a problem than with LCD. That said, it still exists. It just depends on your visual accuity and how close you are to the screen. Walk up to the screen and you will definitely see the screen door grid of mirrors.

Just about any projector can 'handle' the Blu-ray player as it should output more than just 1080p (480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc.) selectably. The HD72 could handle any of these resolutions, but the best would still be 720p as that is a native resolution supported by the projector. Anything else would require some sort of signal processing by the projector which is less desireable.

So a Lumagen HDP would not help in this case?

So a Lumagen HDP would not help in this case?

Sure, a scaler will help in terms of doing a better job reducing a 1080p image into a 720p image. However, nothing will allow a 720 (768) pj to display greater than 720 lines of resolution. In the projector is a chip with 768 rows of mirrors. Each row has 1280 mirrors in it. This defines the physical limit of the resolution the projector can actually display. If a video source with 1080 rows of resolution is sent to the projector, the projector has to decide which 360 rows to throw away and which 720 to keep. If you use a Lumagen, it will have to make the same decision and then send the projector 720 lines of resolution. If the Lumagen makes better decisions about what to keep than the projector, then you will see a better picture. If it doesn't do a better job, then you won't see any difference. No matter what, though, the transmitted image can have no more than 720 (768) rows of pixals because that is all the projector has. :)

I am still struggling with sync issues with my HD72. I have switched to the VGA out from my HTPC and a vga cable instead of the DVI cable. It does sync, but it takes several (5-10) seconds. I'm used to my NEC LT150z syncing immediately. Also, the PJ is often identifying a 1280x768 signal as 1024x768 and scaling the image to that resolution.

How quickly are you guys finding this pj to sync with the source? What source are you using?

Thanks for any info you can offer to help me trouble shoot this issue.

Hi there from Greece,


1. I have read somewhere in the thread that Guitarman had measured the brightness of the projector after about 100 hours or so and found a big degradation of the lumens. Is this true or i'm misunderstanding something? If its true how can you guys with many hours on the projector (more than 100) describe the loss of brightness? Is this a bright projector for only a limited amount of time after all?

2. Can someone say for sure if the big threaded hole for mounting the PJ on a tripod can also be used for hanging the PJ from the ceiling? Ix was not sure about that.

3. Anybody seen the INFOCUS IN76 yet and if so what is the verdict between the 2. Here in Greece unlike US, the Infocus sells at about 10% LESS than the Optoma so if the picture and everything else is comparable then the Infocus is a better value for us. I have seen myself the IN74 next to HD72 but this was an unfair battle (Optoma was better of course).



Greetings:

1. It's the nature of these lamps to dim over time... Pick any projector! The amount of loss tends to be debated, but a 10% loss in the first couple/few of hundred hours is probably a safe bet... Some have reported lamps seeming to lose up to 25% in the first 500 hours, some claim even more... It would be interesting if a few folks with new projectors and the right tools, to accurately track brightness every 100 hours...

As a reviewer I only get to keep a projector for about 30-40 hours use, so I'm not much help there...

2. I have spoken with Optoma on the subject of the tripod thread and it should work fine as a mounting solution, the projector is certainly light enough... That said, they officially designate it a tripod mount, but I had been discussing it with them as a great way to wall mount up high, instead of building a cradle. easy way to find out mount it to a tripod, turn the whole thing over and put additional pressure - weight on the projector (over a pillow of course). If the tripod screw holds - you're in biz. The extra pressure you apply is the safety factor.

3. No joy on the IN76 - sitll waiting a couple of more weeks for a review unit, but I thought someone did a review and posted on audioholics... Not sure though.

Both LCD and DLP images are made up of pixels/mirrors. The gaps between the mirrors of DLP chips is narrower than that of LCD panel pixels and as such screen door has been much less of a problem than with LCD. That said, it still exists. It just depends on your visual accuity and how close you are to the screen. Walk up to the screen and you will definitely see the screen door grid of mirrors.

Thx Sean,

I have a 43 Sammy DLP TV. I when I get a few inches away from the screen. I see no SDE. And I am not prone to RBE. It must be easier to see SDE on a much larger screen the my tiny 43 incher :o

Can someone please advise if the brightness, contrast, color, and tint controls are available on the digital inputs? Thanks.

Megabyte, when you shrink a DLP image down to 42 inches, SDE essentially disappears the gaps between pixels would be so small. I projected a 60" screen the other day and it was barely perceptible.

Sean pretty much nailed it. Typical LCD has wider gaps between pixels than DLP, but with DLP there IS a small gap. The bigger you blow it up, the bigger the gap would be obviously.

Most people can't see SDE on the HD72 at anything beyond about 1x screen width. The eye loses ability to resolve individual pixels, and melds them together as one.

Steve, on my HD72, all those controls are available when using either HDMI or DVI-D input.

Sure, a scaler will help in terms of doing a better job reducing a 1080p image into a 720p image. However, nothing will allow a 720 (768) pj to display greater than 720 lines of resolution. In the projector is a chip with 768 rows of mirrors. Each row has 1280 mirrors in it. This defines the physical limit of the resolution the projector can actually display. If a video source with 1080 rows of resolution is sent to the projector, the projector has to decide which 360 rows to throw away and which 720 to keep. If you use a Lumagen, it will have to make the same decision and then send the projector 720 lines of resolution. If the Lumagen makes better decisions about what to keep than the projector, then you will see a better picture. If it doesn't do a better job, then you won't see any difference. No matter what, though, the transmitted image can have no more than 720 (768) rows of pixals because that is all the projector has. :)


Then how can they claim "1080p (1920 x 1080) Video Max" in their stats?

Then how can they claim "1080p (1920 x 1080) Video Max" in their stats?

This is the maximum resolution that the scaler in the pj can handle. If you had a theoretical 2080P video signal sent to the pj, you wouldn't get an image at all, because its scaler will not handle it. The Video Max define the maximum video input, not output. The "Native" resolution defines output.

2. I have spoken with Optoma on the subject of the tripod thread and it should work fine as a mounting solution, the projector is certainly light enough... That said, they officially designate it a tripod mount, but I had been discussing it with them as a great way to wall mount up high, instead of building a cradle. easy way to find out mount it to a tripod, turn the whole thing over and put additional pressure - weight on the projector (over a pillow of course). If the tripod screw holds - you're in biz. The extra pressure you apply is the safety factor.



I tried this and did not feel comfortable using the tripod mount upside down. The plastic flexes out significantly around the screw.

This test seems flawed! If you put extra pressure and the screw does not hold the projector may be permanently damaged if the casing gives out! (bye bye warranty)

It may be OK according to Optoma, but it did not inspire confidence by any means when I tried this a month ago during installation...

It may be OK according to Optoma, but it did not inspire confidence by any means when I tried this a month ago during installation...

I second that thought.

Hey, just a thought from an old conversation...

I just emailed over to Optoma to see if I can get an official comment as to whether the tripod thread is an acceptable (warranty covered) method of mounting the projector upside down.

Perhaps I'll hear back... -art

Final word (maybe) on my SDE issue with my HD72. I have a real screen now (110"), and SDE still bugs me pretty good at 1.5x and even greater. I notice it constantly on almost all material. Sitting 1.5x I feel like I am watching a matrix of individual pixels.

Well, this morning I went to have a follow-up exam after my custom LASIK surgery 3 months ago, and I have almost 20/10 vision. I can read the entire 20/15 line easily, and 3 letters on the 20/10 line. Dr. said my vision is better than 99% of humans. I can read some letters at 20 feet that a "normal" person could read at 10 feet. The 20/10 letters are tiny, like 1/8" letters at 20 feet and I could read some of them.

I guess that explains why I can see SDE on a 1280x720p DLP at 2x screen width. I joked with the doc he needs to pony up the $ for me to get a 1080p projector, so it doesn't bug me. ;)

Bottom line is the proj is fine, I have exceptional visual acuity. Case closed on SDE, until I can afford 1080p!


May be you ought to purchase a set of over the counter reading spectacles from the drug store with -1/2 diopter to detune your vision!

Hey, Gang:

Audioholics just completed a review of the HD72!

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/OptomaHD72p1.php

Rich

Is there any news on the reset bug? I'm loving the unit I got last week, but it just reset on me which is really annoying considering I had just set in everything the way I liked it for my different sources. I'm going to write down the settings next time. By the way, in the past Optoma projectors did not allow user updates. But I notice the service port on the back looks like a standard usb port, perhaps we can do it, even if not officially, if someone can get a copy of the updated firmware. I'm not going to send my unit in just for firmware updates. That's crazy.

Yes, this is right. There is no official standard that says what projectors are "supposed" to be. TI supposedly made this new chip to allow the same chip to be used in a larger array of projectors. If a company is making a predominant business pj, then the chip does 1024x768 natively. If a company like Optoma wants to put the chip in a HT PJ, then it can also do 1280x720 natively. It is an interesting compromise on the manufacturing side, but only the market will determine if it is a profitable one.

You can run the HD72 in 1280x720 mode where it basically turns the extra 28 verticle lines black. Then you are back to a 1.78:1 PJ.

So I wonder if you set it at 1.78:1, and how it goes for us 2.35:1 CIH guys when switching between 4 x 3 and 4 x 3 zoom. Would there be a height difference?

Mark

So I wonder if you set it at 1.78:1, and how it goes for us 2.35:1 CIH guys when switching between 4 x 3 and 4 x 3 zoom. Would there be a height difference?

Mark

Hi Mark,

The only way to use the full 768 vertical pixels is to set to native and feed a 1280x768 or 1024x768 signal to the projector.

The 4:3, 16:9, and LBX modes all use the 1280x720 portion of the panel.
LBX mode vertically scales 2.35 content for the anamorphic lens.
4:3 compresses horizontally to watch 16:9 or 4:3 material with an anamorphic lens. (if your lens is always installed or does not have a pass thru mode)

16:9 just scales any input signal to 1280x720.

It's a great proj for CIH. For the most part, in home theater apps, it's a 1280x720 native projector with +/- 24 pixel digital image shift, which is like 3-4 inches of vertical lens shift.

Mike

Megabyte, when you shrink a DLP image down to 42 inches, SDE essentially disappears the gaps between pixels would be so small. I projected a 60" screen the other day and it was barely perceptible.

Sean pretty much nailed it. Typical LCD has wider gaps between pixels than DLP, but with DLP there IS a small gap. The bigger you blow it up, the bigger the gap would be obviously.

Most people can't see SDE on the HD72 at anything beyond about 1x screen width. The eye loses ability to resolve individual pixels, and melds them together as one.

Steve, on my HD72, all those controls are available when using either HDMI or DVI-D input.

ZBoomer,
Thanks for the info. When pausing my sammy during a scene that has fast motion going on, I was able to see small pixels, not all over the screen but enough that if was on a large screen I now see how you would be able to have SDE.
I'm think of getting a HD72 mid summer.
Lots of great people in here, :cool:
I love this site :)
Thanks all

Is there any news on the reset bug?

My HD72 is currently en route to Optoma. :(

They reckon 5 business days turnaround total (including shipping).

Still mad that they aren't field upgradeable.

Chris

My HD72 is on the way, but the more I read about screens the less I feel like I know what to get. The PJ will be mounted to the ceiling (9' ceilings) and I'm hoping for a 92" screen. The viewing distance is 14-15' from the screen. The walls and ceiling are white, but I do have a large black rug that covers most of the floor.

Light will be somewhat controlled, but i want to have the option of watching regular tv and playing xbox360 without turning off all the lights. I also want it to look good for watching movies with the lights off. For this reason I've been looking at grey screens such as the da-lite HCCV and the Optoma Grey Wolf. The grey wolf is so cheap I'm thinking about buying one anyway just to try. Every time I think I have it figured out I read a bunch of posts about how horrible X Y and Z are, and I'm back to square one. It almost seems like a good idea to get one of the cheap grey wolfs and hang it so it pulls down over a white screen to use with ambient light.

I requested some samples from da-lite but I'm not sure how much that will help .

Anyone have any suggestions?

Final word (maybe) on my SDE issue with my HD72. I have a real screen now (110"), and SDE still bugs me pretty good at 1.5x and even greater. I notice it constantly on almost all material. Sitting 1.5x I feel like I am watching a matrix of individual pixels.

Well, this morning I went to have a follow-up exam after my custom LASIK surgery 3 months ago, and I have almost 20/10 vision. I can read the entire 20/15 line easily, and 3 letters on the 20/10 line. Dr. said my vision is better than 99% of humans. I can read some letters at 20 feet that a "normal" person could read at 10 feet. The 20/10 letters are tiny, like 1/8" letters at 20 feet and I could read some of them.

I guess that explains why I can see SDE on a 1280x720p DLP at 2x screen width. I joked with the doc he needs to pony up the $ for me to get a 1080p projector, so it doesn't bug me. ;)

Bottom line is the proj is fine, I have exceptional visual acuity. Case closed on SDE, until I can afford 1080p!




Just wait til you see the HD81..... SDE is a thing of the past...

Hi Mark,

The only way to use the full 768 vertical pixels is to set to native and feed a 1280x768 or 1024x768 signal to the projector.

The 4:3, 16:9, and LBX modes all use the 1280x720 portion of the panel.
LBX mode vertically scales 2.35 content for the anamorphic lens.
4:3 compresses horizontally to watch 16:9 or 4:3 material with an anamorphic lens. (if your lens is always installed or does not have a pass thru mode)

16:9 just scales any input signal to 1280x720.

It's a great proj for CIH. For the most part, in home theater apps, it's a 1280x720 native projector with +/- 24 pixel digital image shift, which is like 3-4 inches of vertical lens shift.

Mike

Thats cool :)

So a 4 x 3 = 958 x 720 and 16:9 is 1280 x 720 for both the stretch mode and the 4 x 3 zoom mode. Is that correct?

And that if you wanted to use the full 768 vertical rez, then you would need an external scaler to resize the image and geometry...

Mark

Does anyone know the new firmware version number? Optoma Canada is supposed to ship mine out this week and I want to confirm with them it is the newest firmware before they ship it.

Thats cool :)

So a 4 x 3 = 958 x 720 and 16:9 is 1280 x 720 for both the stretch mode and the 4 x 3 zoom mode. Is that correct?

And that if you wanted to use the full 768 vertical rez, then you would need an external scaler to resize the image and geometry...

Mark
Yes, and yes.

My HD72 is on the way, but the more I read about screens the less I feel like I know what to get. The PJ will be mounted to the ceiling (9' ceilings) and I'm hoping for a 92" screen. The viewing distance is 14-15' from the screen. The walls and ceiling are white, but I do have a large black rug that covers most of the floor.

Light will be somewhat controlled, but i want to have the option of watching regular tv and playing xbox360 without turning off all the lights. I also want it to look good for watching movies with the lights off. For this reason I've been looking at grey screens such as the da-lite HCCV and the Optoma Grey Wolf. The grey wolf is so cheap I'm thinking about buying one anyway just to try. Every time I think I have it figured out I read a bunch of posts about how horrible X Y and Z are, and I'm back to square one. It almost seems like a good idea to get one of the cheap grey wolfs and hang it so it pulls down over a white screen to use with ambient light.

I requested some samples from da-lite but I'm not sure how much that will help .

Anyone have any suggestions?

You could go with a 106" diagonal screen. People have the wrong idea that this PJ is hard to get setup. I have zero need for keystone, still have plenty more room if I wanted with the 16.9 shifting between the 768 vertical pixels. I got 8' ceilings and a 106" screen PJ 14' back, chief flush mount. Viewing eye is 1/4 ways up from the bottom of the image. Image area is 24" up from the floor.

Reset issue, it's only on 1 in 4 of the first batch sent in, which wasn't many. If you get one with the problem Optoma will cover the shipping both ways, so I heard.

The reason they can't send out firmwares is that it's not just a flash. First you need a software program that Ti has the rights to. They were going to ask Ti but thought for sure it would be a no go.

Hi Mark,

The only way to use the full 768 vertical pixels is to set to native and feed a 1280x768 or 1024x768 signal to the projector.

The 4:3, 16:9, and LBX modes all use the 1280x720 portion of the panel.
LBX mode vertically scales 2.35 content for the anamorphic lens.
4:3 compresses horizontally to watch 16:9 or 4:3 material with an anamorphic lens. (if your lens is always installed or does not have a pass thru mode)

16:9 just scales any input signal to 1280x720.

It's a great proj for CIH. For the most part, in home theater apps, it's a 1280x720 native projector with +/- 24 pixel digital image shift, which is like 3-4 inches of vertical lens shift.



Mike,

Actually, that has not been my experience. If you go into the Setup menu and set the projector display type to 16:10, it uses all 768 pixels all the time.

If viewing 16:9 source (in 16:9 mode, not native setting) it scales the image to 768 tall and cuts a bit off the ends. It scales the image wider, and uses all 768 pixels.

If viewing 4:3 material, it also scales to the full 768 tall and the image is wider using more of the available pixles. On a related note, the scaler in the HD72 is superb. On normal sources I've yet to see any difference at all between any scaled mode and "Native." I'm sure you could notice with test patterns, but viewing normal material the scaler rocks.

The key to using all 768 pixels in 16:9 and 4:3 mode is setting the projector to 16:10 display type.

-Micah

Mike,

Actually, that has not been my experience. If you go into the Setup menu and set the projector display type to 16:10, it uses all 768 pixels all the time.

If viewing 16:9 source (in 16:9 mode, not native setting) it scales the image to 768 tall and cuts a bit off the ends. It scales the image wider, and uses all 768 pixels.

If viewing 4:3 material, it also scales to the full 768 tall and the image is wider using more of the available pixles. On a related note, the scaler in the HD72 is superb. On normal sources I've yet to see any difference at all between any scaled mode and "Native." I'm sure you could notice with test patterns, but viewing normal material the scaler rocks.

The key to using all 768 pixels in 16:9 and 4:3 mode is setting the projector to 16:10 display type.

-Micah


Thanks Micah, I just confirmerd this. Good to know.

Mark, in 16:10 mode all the anamorphic scaling functions work properly using the full vertical resolution. There is no need for an external scaler.

768, true but you need an electric screen to adjust to the size perfectly. I have one and tried it. I makes for a much larger image plus 4.3 is hugh, way better. There could be a debate about losing some of the widescreen image.

I also want it to look good for watching movies with the lights off. For this reason I've been looking at grey screens such as the da-lite HCCV and the Optoma Grey Wolf.

I suggest you stay away from those screens as they both have sparklies. Take a look at the Severtson grey screens. I received a sample and there is no sparklies, nice and smooth. They are relatively cheap and reasonably priced.

Mike

I suggest you stay away from those screens as they both have sparklies. Take a look at the Severtson grey screens. I received a sample and there is no sparklies, nice and smooth. They are relatively cheap and reasonably priced.

Mike

Which gray screen samples - the high definition gray? Is it also offered in the electric screens?

Rich

I will be sitting approximately 12 feet from the screen and I'm wondering what size screen would be suitable? My initial choice is 92" since I don't want to be overwhelmed by the size and my concern is my eyes will be moving all over which may cause me to see rainbows (I'm going to get an HD72). Any suggestions?

The reason they can't send out firmwares is that it's not just a flash. First you need a software program that Ti has the rights to. They were going to ask Ti but thought for sure it would be a no go.

Not trying to argue but I really don't buy this explanation. Infocus is using the same chip but they continue to offer firmware updates via their usual mechanism for the IN72/74/76: IN76 Flash Update (http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&soft=in76)

I can't see how brilliant color would make a difference but I'm no expert. :confused:

I suggest you stay away from those screens as they both have sparklies. Take a look at the Severtson grey screens. I received a sample and there is no sparklies, nice and smooth. They are relatively cheap and reasonably priced.

Mike

Sparklies you gotta be kidding me. I've been living with the Graywolf since day one and I'm not bothered by sparklies or textures. Fuss about this is just that fuss. I get gain and I get contrast, no washout. This flat gray screen you mention is probably dim and will show waves with video. My High Power screen will washout with light in the area. You want the ultimate then buy the Grayhawk for a few thousand. Amazing!

Sparklies you gotta be kidding me. I've been living with the Graywolf since day one and I'm not bothered by sparklies or textures. Fuss about this is just that fuss. I get gain and I get contrast, no washout. This flat gray screen you mention is probably dim and will show waves with video. My High Power screen will washout with light in the area. You want the ultimate then buy the Grayhawk for a few thousand. Amazing!

Greywolf. Sparklies. They go together in spite of your personal observations.

Greywolf. Sparklies. They go together in spite of your personal observations.

Well every person and setup is different. I just decided that the absurdly low price on this screen was worth giving it a try. If it doesn't work out I'll pick up something better. I'd be quite happy if a $140 screen was good enough for me.

I had the Optoma greywolf screen.......HATED IT due to the rough texture and sparklies. Do a search.....lots of people returned because of the texture.....

Not trying to argue but I really don't buy this explanation. Infocus is using the same chip but they continue to offer firmware updates via their usual mechanism for the IN72/74/76: IN76 Flash Update (http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&soft=in76)

I can't see how brilliant color would make a difference but I'm no expert. :confused:
This is not exactly right. They use the same DMD panel but not the same control ASICs.

Both the HD72 and Mits HC3000 use TI's new proprietary DDP3020 ASIC (brilliant color chip) in conjuction with the new 768p DMD panel. The IN76 uses an older ASIC with the new 768p DMD panel. They do not offer brilliant color and other features that go with it either.

Knowing this makes it a plausible explanation of why IF can do this. Neither the HD72 not the HC3000 offer field programmable firmware upgrades to my knowledge with this new 3020 ASIC.

Mike

Sparklies you gotta be kidding me. I've been living with the Graywolf since day one and I'm not bothered by sparklies or textures. Fuss about this is just that fuss. I get gain and I get contrast, no washout.

Apparently when there is a lot of fuss about it, it must be that it bothers many out there.

Are you saying it doesn't have sparklies?

Or that it Does have sparklies, but they just don't bother you?

Fleaman

I am using the Da-Lite HCCV screen with the HD72. This is my first projector and screen combination. So I am a novice. What are sparklies? How do you identify them? Can someone post pictures of what this looks like.

Greywolf. Sparklies. They go together in spite of your personal observations.

Like I don't know you can't dwell on it. The Graywolf is a Gray screen that 1 dosen't show waves because of it's texture. That's the first thing I like about the cheap non-tensioned pull down. Second is it's very dark gray with a gain level especially nice if you table mount a pj. Do not buy a non-tensioned other gray screen because the waves in video will be intolerable.

If you don't care about refelction and have a bat cave and still want a cheap non-tensioned try the Mat white or High Power.

I am using the Da-Lite HCCV screen with the HD72. This is my first projector and screen combination. So I am a novice. What are sparklies? How do you identify them? Can someone post pictures of what this looks like.

Shinny specs reflecting back at you. I don't see that with the graywolf, what I'll see and only in some light video is a faint grain texture. When I had a Dalite video spectra I saw allot of sparklies.

Has anyone found discreet On/OFF codes for the HD72? Do codes from other Optoma PJs work?

This is not exactly right. They use the same DMD panel but not the same control ASICs.

Both the HD72 and Mits HC3000 use TI's new proprietary DDP3020 ASIC (brilliant color chip) in conjuction with the new 768p DMD panel. The IN76 uses an older ASIC with the new 768p DMD panel. They do not offer brilliant color and other features that go with it either.

Knowing this makes it a plausible explanation of why IF can do this. Neither the HD72 not the HC3000 offer field programmable firmware upgrades to my knowledge with this new 3020 ASIC.

ike

Ah! Good call. I overlooked that part of the equation. Still sucks that the firmware is not field upgradeable... :(

After reading multiple forums for the last couple of weeks I am finally ready to order HD72. My only question is - why would they bother with 16:10 ratio? 1080p is still going to be 16:9 - am I correct? So if I am to build custom made screen with that ratio I wouldn't be able to switch to 1080p in the future, or would have to trim the screen? Does it offer any advantages?
I understood, that I should be just fine with my 106" diagonal 16:9 - but what is the purpose of 16:10? I am planning on switching to 1080p in a couple of years and would like to have a set up that would simply allow me to remove my old projector, put a new one in and enjoy the show.

Has anyone found discreet On/OFF codes for the HD72? Do codes from other Optoma PJs work?

So far I haven't found any discreet codes for the HD72, so I had to change the device settings for my harmony remote to select the power toggle code twice.

Also when I set up my 880, there weren't any codes for the HD72 in their database. Since the harmony software checks for IR code matches between the remote it is learning from and other remotes in the database, I'd assume the codes for other Optoma remotes won't work.

As far as sparklies with the Greywolf, when I initially setup my HD72 it was on a shelf about 24" from the floor and I saw sparklies. But after ceiling mounting it the sparklies are gone. And they were only visible at a distance around 1.2x the screen width or closer.

After reading multiple forums for the last couple of weeks I am finally ready to order HD72. My only question is - why would they bother with 16:10 ratio? 1080p is still going to be 16:9 - am I correct? So if I am to build custom made screen with that ratio I wouldn't be able to switch to 1080p in the future, or would have to trim the screen? Does it offer any advantages?
I understood, that I should be just fine with my 106" diagonal 16:9 - but what is the purpose of 16:10? I am planning on switching to 1080p in a couple of years and would like to have a set up that would simply allow me to remove my old projector, put a new one in and enjoy the show.


768 is so computer users don't hv to scale. You should setup in 16.9 720p.

I will be sitting approximately 12 feet from the screen and I'm wondering what size screen would be suitable? My initial choice is 92" since I don't want to be overwhelmed by the size and my concern is my eyes will be moving all over which may cause me to see rainbows (I'm going to get an HD72). Any suggestions?

Frankly (and just my opinion) bigger is better :D .

I sit about 13' away from a 110" diag. screen with my BenQ 8700+ and if anything I would like it bigger!

Just me however................ I really like the "immersive" feel of a large screen (movies or Halo). I have never had any problems with RBE although my BenQ is not as bright as the new HD72. If I upgrade to the HD72 I am planning on about 130+ inches.

After reading multiple forums for the last couple of weeks I am finally ready to order HD72. My only question is - why would they bother with 16:10 ratio? 1080p is still going to be 16:9 - am I correct? So if I am to build custom made screen with that ratio I wouldn't be able to switch to 1080p in the future, or would have to trim the screen? Does it offer any advantages?
I understood, that I should be just fine with my 106" diagonal 16:9 - but what is the purpose of 16:10? I am planning on switching to 1080p in a couple of years and would like to have a set up that would simply allow me to remove my old projector, put a new one in and enjoy the show.

As you are new to the projector community one of the things you probably have not considered is the manufacturers ability to control price with volume. In order to make their HT DLP's more competitive (and this is not just Optoma) TI came up with a DMD that could be used for either HT applications or business applications. In business most people are feeding the projector from a laptop or other computer that will have a standard resolution of 1024x768... thus filling the entire panel. 1024x768 also happens to work out to a 4x3 resolution which is the standard that has been used for TV for many years. By creating this DMD you can now display a larger 4x3 SDTV image or a computer business presentation in 4x3 (1024x768) and make full use of the panel available.

As 16x10 is quite close to 16x9 those folks who wish to use this DMD in a HT projector will simply have 48 extra pixels that they may or may not turn on based on the way the manufacturer sets up the software. In the case of Optoma the extra pixels can be used to move the 16x9 image up or down 24 pixels if this will help in an individuals screen setup. Otherwise the pixels will be blacked out during HDTV or DVD's if you have setup the projector as a 16x9 machine.

Other manufactures like InFocus are using this same chip, but in their HT projector (the IN76) they have decided to simply turn the pixels off thereby eliminating any choice by the consumer.

In either case having the pixels turned off should increase the light output slightly as you have the same volume of light being reflected off fewer mirrors and spread over a smaller area.... so I would expect the projector to by slightly brighter in 16x9 mode versus 16x10.

You will notice other folks talking about "constant height" and 2.35 screen setups..., for further education on these matters you should spend some quality time reading in the constant height forum.... the nice thing is the Optoma HD72 gives you the opportunity to make use of some of these other options.

I am planing on installing my HT in walk-out basement, south side of the house. Should I do more than 106"? My concern is that despite my best effort I will always have some lighting issues during the day. Is Optoma's brightness be appropriate for those conditions?
By the way - anybody know where can I get a motorized drapes to cover 19 feet of windows and doors in the basement?

Has anyone yet determined if the HD72 bobs or weaves 1080i to 720p?

Has anyone yet determined if the HD72 bobs or weaves 1080i to 720p?

Not to my knowledge......................

It has been asked several times...............

TzungLin has not shared that particular info with us.........

Many claim that it does not matter...... of course most of those that make this statement live in an area where they do not currently have HDTV. If you have 1080i broadcasts available then it is important......as long as your HDTV set top box is set to pass the native resolution. If you have to choose an output resolution then it won't make any difference as the scaling has already been done by the HD box before it gets to the projector.... unless you change the settings on the box for whatever the native signal is..... at least this is how my HD-Tivo appears to work... although I seem to recall having a SA cable HD box that you could set to output "native" such that it would change depending on the source.

If you have to choose an output resolution then it won't make any difference as the scaling has already been done by the HD box before it gets to the projector.... unless you change the settings on the box for whatever the native signal is..... at least this is how my HD-Tivo appears to work... although I seem to recall having a SA cable HD box that you could set to output "native" such that it would change depending on the source.

I guess I will just have to experiment with it once my pj arrives. I have the motorola dual tuner HD DVR box from comcast. It does make you pick your output resolution..So I'd need to determine if the cable box bobs or weaves too.

So far I haven't found any discreet codes for the HD72, so I had to change the device settings for my harmony remote to select the power toggle code twice.

Also when I set up my 880, there weren't any codes for the HD72 in their database. Since the harmony software checks for IR code matches between the remote it is learning from and other remotes in the database, I'd assume the codes for other Optoma remotes won't work.

As far as sparklies with the Greywolf, when I initially setup my HD72 it was on a shelf about 24" from the floor and I saw sparklies. But after ceiling mounting it the sparklies are gone. And they were only visible at a distance around 1.2x the screen width or closer.

I'm guessing here, but since the Graywolf is a retro-reflective screen, mounting the projector to the ceiling probably mitigated the sparklies effect by dropping the gain from 1.8 to around 1.

I agree, my X1 and Z4 weren't nearly as bright as the HD72, so I tried ceiling mounting to reduce the gain, which worked.

Which gray screen samples - the high definition gray? Is it also offered in the electric screens?

Rich

Yes, High def gray. I don't know if they carry electric screens although it looks like it since they show pictures of them on their website.

Yes, High def gray. I don't know if they carry electric screens although it looks like it since they show pictures of them on their website.

Severtson's current website lists Matte White material for their line of electric screens. Supposedly they are redesigning their website (lots of complaints about the amateurish looking content) so they may update the material to High Def Gray for their electric screens. In the meanwhile, Optoma has updated their line of screens with the Graywolf Type II screens which have a different material for their screens and these new screens will be available by the end of April.

Rich

In the meanwhile, Optoma has updated their line of screens with the Graywolf Type II screens which have a different material for their screens and these new screens will be available by the end of April.

Rich

Interesting, do you know what the difference is?

My installer is refusing to go more than 106" diagonal stating that screen would suffer from "light splatters" if I had chosen to go any bigger. Is that such a big of a deal for a recessed screens? My current set up will have approximately 8" from the wall on each site and I would like to get as big as possible - 120"?
Should I just get a projector first and try it before buying screen? Should I wait for Optoma's recommended screen?

Interesting, do you know what the difference is?

So far this is what Optoma released about the new Graywolf IIs:

http://www.optomausa.com/PressRelease_detail.asp?Press_id=27

Rich

Briefly tested a H72 last weekend in a friend's setup. Source is a HTPC using a old Radeon DVI to the H72 DVI in 1280x720 60hz. Got 1:1 mapping fine.

The H72 lens and focus is very sharp edge to edge even at max zoom (largest picture) on a 92" diag image. Maybe that's why some find more screendoor on the model but I like it this way.

Picture brightness is only average and I need to use high lamp mode. The lamp counter is at 0 when I started.

All projector's setting at default when started. Final setting is:
- PC picture mode (I think)
- B.Color at 2
- VividColor (?) at off (min)
- Picture AI at off
- Color temp at 1 (middle)
- Contrast at +12, brightness at -15 (AVIA tuned)
- minor tweak of R/G/B gain/bias, a few + clicks of Red mostly, other at or close to 0
- degamma at Film

Nice color overall but the Red is still not good enough. Though already better than the Mit and Sharp using the same chip IMO. Decent contrast ratio but others seem better. And black level seems higher than others too. Very little motion dithering like the other 2 1280x768 models.

It gives a overall better picture than the Mit and Sharp IMO. But friends said seeing more rainbow on this one too.

regards,

Li On

I have the HD72 and tried calibrating it with the AVIA software. Can't seem to get it calibrated correctly. I would like to start with some setting which most people are happy with.

Recently someone asked if color controls (color, tint, etc.) were available with digial inputs. I answered yes, but have since discovered something odd regarding this I am still trying to nail down.

When viewing my DirecTV HD box on the DVI-D port, the color and tint controls are available. However, when I switch over to my OPPO DVD player on the HDMI port, they are gone. (using Monoprice DVI-D to HDMI cables on both)

I notice my D* box uses Y/Pb/Pr colorspace, whereas the OPPO uses RGB. Could the issue of where the color controls are available be tied to colorspace, instead of inputs? I _think_ when I had my laptop connected the other day, the color controls also disappeared -- it's RGB colorspace.


Both DVI-D and HDMI are digital. I'm still investigating exactly when the color controls disappear. Has anyone else noticed this?

Hey guys I've tried to read as much of this thread as possible, just ran out of time. My question is have any of you tried (or heard of someone trying) this PJ as a presentation projector given its relatively high lumen output. I'm a (very happy) Mac user and use Keynote (as opposed to PowerPoint), which supports high-def (both 720p and 1080p) presentations. I currently use an 1500 lumen SVGA PJ for teaching and the odd movie/24 party on the weekends. Am planning to upgrade to an XGA (actually already bought Optoma 719 but have a buyer for it if I change my mind) because I have horrible contrast when I show video clips or movies in the (poorly light controlled) classroom. I thought I'd only want to go brighter and higher res, hence the purchase of an 2000 lumen XGA, but I'd love 720p slides packed full of info/pictures. HT is just as important to me (I don't have or plan to buy a big TV) so if some of you have had success with this as a presenter, I'd like to hear about it.

I also noticed that there's no VGA input. I'm assuming a simple vga-dvi adapter would do the trick for backward people with laptop PCs who need to use this for teaching?

Also about pricing, I don't want to cross the line, but there is one seller that shows up on Froogle as WAY cheaper than everyone else? Anyone heard of KelloCity.com? I'd appreciate buying-advice PMs. Thanks.

Has anyone yet determined if the HD72 bobs or weaves 1080i to 720p?

At this cost...I most assuredly think "bob". I have also noticed on 1080i sources. We would have to spend a lot more for "weave" at this point in time (think Yamaha).

On a side note, I am as giddy as a school girl since I hooked up my DVDO VP30 to the HD72 this weekend. SD looks much better, DVD looks more refined (I tell you, 3D animation looks HD now). What I like about the combo is that I can now feed the HD72 a 72Hz signal for films (DVD) to give a smoother "film" like look and still feed it a 60Hz signal for video signals (i.e. HDTV). You can set up display profiles with the VP30 that are auto detected...cool (it switches depending on what is the input).

As far as screens go, we occassionally saw "sparklies" with the Dalite Hi-Power Model B pull down (also retroflective material) on a previous FP...not even a problem. Looks like I will soon be laying down money for the Greywolf 2.

Also about pricing, I don't want to cross the line, but there is one seller that shows up on Froogle as WAY cheaper than everyone else? Anyone heard of KelloCity.com? I'd appreciate buying-advice PMs. Thanks.

Check out this (http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~gisle/blog/) about this kind of scam. Notice they only take "wired" funds.

Check out this (http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~gisle/blog/) about this kind of scam. Notice they only take "wired" funds.
Thanks for the headsup. Absolute scam no question about it. I find 95% of the time I find too-good-to-be-true price it's just that. Only once I froogled my way into an 'employee price' URL for a laptop and saved $200. Next day the page was no longer findable via froogle. That likely puts the HD72 out of my price range. 2000 Lumens of XGA here I come!

I guess it'll take me another 4-5 years and 2 more upgrades to get to 1080P, maybe I'll actually have some HD content by then :)

Recently someone asked if color controls (color, tint, etc.) were available with digial inputs. I answered yes, but have since discovered something odd regarding this I am still trying to nail down.

When viewing my DirecTV HD box on the DVI-D port, the color and tint controls are available. However, when I switch over to my OPPO DVD player on the HDMI port, they are gone. (using Monoprice DVI-D to HDMI cables on both)

I notice my D* box uses Y/Pb/Pr colorspace, whereas the OPPO uses RGB. Could the issue of where the color controls are available be tied to colorspace, instead of inputs? I _think_ when I had my laptop connected the other day, the color controls also disappeared -- it's RGB colorspace.


Both DVI-D and HDMI are digital. I'm still investigating exactly when the color controls disappear. Has anyone else noticed this?

Thanks ZBoomer, that was me. I saw a couple of reviews early on in this thread where it was mentioned the color and tint controls weren't availabe -- then others which seemed to indicate they were.

Has anybody noticed the color and tint colors not being available on the digital inputs?

Via. the digital inputs, colour and tint are only available when inputting HDMI to HDMI and using YCbCr colour space. DVI can only output RGB colour space.

Briefly tested a H72 last weekend in a friend's setup. Source is a HTPC using a old Radeon DVI to the H72 DVI in 1280x720 60hz. Got 1:1 mapping fine.

The H72 lens and focus is very sharp edge to edge even at max zoom (largest picture) on a 92" diag image. Maybe that's why some find more screendoor on the model but I like it this way.

Picture brightness is only average and I need to use high lamp mode. The lamp counter is at 0 when I started.

All projector's setting at default when started. Final setting is:
- PC picture mode (I think)
- B.Color at 2
- VividColor (?) at off (min)
- Picture AI at off
- Color temp at 1 (middle)
- Contrast at +12, brightness at -15 (AVIA tuned)
- minor tweak of R/G/B gain/bias, a few + clicks of Red mostly, other at or close to 0
- degamma at Film

Nice color overall but the Red is still not good enough. Though already better than the Mit and Sharp using the same chip IMO. Decent contrast ratio but others seem better. And black level seems higher than others too. Very little motion dithering like the other 2 1280x768 models.

It gives a overall better picture than the Mit and Sharp IMO. But friends said seeing more rainbow on this one too.

regards,

Li On

Li On if you toggle vividcolor full on to full off you'll see the effect it does. If you play an Avia graysweep pattern though you'll see a sharp drop step (contour) in the dark shade of gray. I figure this can't be good but who knows. I've tested two so far and each one was equally bright 20.50ftc in bright mode which is extremely high for a HT projector. Somethings up with the one you looked at.

At this cost...I most assuredly think "bob". I have also noticed on 1080i sources. We would have to spend a lot more for "weave" at this point in time (think Yamaha).
You don't have to think Yamaha. The Infocus IN76 does the "weave".

Like I don't know you can't dwell on it. The Graywolf is a Gray screen that 1 dosen't show waves because of it's texture. That's the first thing I like about the cheap non-tensioned pull down. Second is it's very dark gray with a gain level especially nice if you table mount a pj. Do not buy a non-tensioned other gray screen because the waves in video will be intolerable.

If you don't care about refelction and have a bat cave and still want a cheap non-tensioned try the Mat white or High Power.

My point of comparison is my Stewart Studiotek 130, so the sparklies in the Greywolf would particularly bother me where it may not bother others who don't have a point of reference. The Stewart screens have absolutely flat performance with no bumps or beads to reflect light in stray directions.

The Studiotek HAS sparklies, once you have the Vutec BriteWhite screen as reference! :D

regards,

Li On

The Studiotek HAS sparklies, once you have the Vutec BriteWhite screen as reference! :D

regards,

Li On

Don't think so, but nice of you to chime in, anyway. I've had CRT's, digitals and LCD's all project on this screen and NEVER have seen a sparklie. :)

Noticed this feature of the HD72 in the manual, any idea what the heck this means?

"Optoma’s patent-pending O2Air(tm) Photo Catalyst air purification technology"

Is the HD72 cleaning my air for me? :)

Via. the digital inputs, colour and tint are only available when inputting HDMI to HDMI and using YCbCr colour space. DVI can only output RGB colour space.

Ok, are you saying that the DVI input on the HD72 only accepts RGB?

Reason I ask is because you say it requires HDMl to HDMI, which isn't the case for me. I am using an HDMI to DVI cable on my DirecTV box, into the DVI on the HD72, and it's using YCbCr colorspace (color controls available).

My OPPO also uses an HDMI to DVI cable also, but connects to the HDMI port on the HD72, and is using RGB colorspace, and no color controls.

So the fault is in the fact that the OPPO's DVI output can only output RGB? I know the DVI on the HD72 can accept YCbCr, because mine is right now.

Sorry for the confusion, just trying to understand.

"Optoma’s patent-pending O2Air(tm) Photo Catalyst air purification technology"

Is the HD72 cleaning my air for me? :)

Most likely to reduce the chance of getting dust blobs. So yes, in a sense, it is.

Ok, I am about to FINALLY pull the trigger and order an HD72 after keeping up with this thread since its inception. This will be my first attempt at building a true home theater and it will be coincidentally be placed in my first home's upstairs gameroom. Since construction is approximately a month away from being completed, I am now in the process of ordering all the video & audio components. I would like some advice on how to hook up the video sources since I will be purchasing most (if not all) of the equipment online without actually seeing connectors and such. Just remember that nothing has been purchased yet so replacement suggestions may also be considered.

- Comcast HD DVR (I believe w/ HDMI)
- Oppo 971 DVD Player (only DVI, right?)
- Harman Kardon AVR 635 (component OSD, video transcoding, no HDMI or DVI or upconverting)
- PC (mainly for MP3 music & photos but also to sometimes run apps/browser)

The main question I have is how I should hook everything up to the HD72 given that it has 1 HDMI, 1 DVI, 1 component, and 1 S-video inputs. Also, keep in mind that I will need 25-30' of any cables I run from the projector to the area where these components will sit. I realize that I could go with a different receiver that has video capabilities and/or get a Gefen switch but do I go with 2x1 DVI, 2x1 HDMI, just run VGA from the PC with an adapter, get an upconverting component DVD player instead, or what. Obviously, budget is a fairly large constraint since this setup is already quite costly.

Thanks in advance for all your help and wisdom. I really look forward to reading your comments.

- Comcast HD DVR (I believe w/ HDMI)
- Oppo 971 DVD Player (only DVI, right?)
- Harman Kardon AVR 635 (component OSD, video transcoding, no HDMI or DVI or upconverting)
- PC (mainly for MP3 music & photos but also to sometimes run apps/browser)

The main question I have is how I should hook everything up to the HD72 given that it has 1 HDMI, 1 DVI, 1 component, and 1 S-video inputs. Also, keep in mind that I will need 25-30' of any cables I run from the projector to the area where these components will sit. I realize that I could go with a different receiver that has video capabilities and/or get a Gefen switch but do I go with 2x1 DVI, 2x1 HDMI, just run VGA from the PC with an adapter, get an upconverting component DVD player instead, or what. Obviously, budget is a fairly large constraint since this setup is already quite costly.

Thanks in advance for all your help and wisdom. I really look forward to reading your comments.

My HD72 will be here tomorrow and what I'm running is a single HDMI cable and a single Component video cable. I got the impression that HDMI is less subject to having issues with cable runs that long (mine will be 25'), so I decided to use that instead of DVI. If you have the same comcast dvr box I do (motorola 5200 I believe), it has DVI not HDMI. Unfortunately your setup is a lot more complicated than mine so I can't really say. I'm hooking up the comcast box with a dvi->hdmi cable and everything else (my xbox and dvd player) via component. If I threw a PC into the mix it'd mess that all up since my receiver only switches component.

Ok, I am about to FINALLY pull the trigger and order an HD72 after keeping up with this thread since its inception. This will be my first attempt at building a true home theater and it will be coincidentally be placed in my first home's upstairs gameroom. Since construction is approximately a month away from being completed, I am now in the process of ordering all the video & audio components. I would like some advice on how to hook up the video sources since I will be purchasing most (if not all) of the equipment online without actually seeing connectors and such. Just remember that nothing has been purchased yet so replacement suggestions may also be considered.

- Comcast HD DVR (I believe w/ HDMI)
- Oppo 971 DVD Player (only DVI, right?)
- Harman Kardon AVR 635 (component OSD, video transcoding, no HDMI or DVI or upconverting)
- PC (mainly for MP3 music & photos but also to sometimes run apps/browser)

The main question I have is how I should hook everything up to the HD72 given that it has 1 HDMI, 1 DVI, 1 component, and 1 S-video inputs. Also, keep in mind that I will need 25-30' of any cables I run from the projector to the area where these components will sit. I realize that I could go with a different receiver that has video capabilities and/or get a Gefen switch but do I go with 2x1 DVI, 2x1 HDMI, just run VGA from the PC with an adapter, get an upconverting component DVD player instead, or what. Obviously, budget is a fairly large constraint since this setup is already quite costly.

Thanks in advance for all your help and wisdom. I really look forward to reading your comments.


My comcast box has DVI not HDMI so you may want to check that in your area.

I discovered it a few days ago. According to Optoma, DVI has no color and tint adjustments because historically DVI is a computer interface. HDMI and component both have color and tint adjustments.


Thanks ZBoomer, that was me. I saw a couple of reviews early on in this thread where it was mentioned the color and tint controls weren't availabe -- then others which seemed to indicate they were.

Has anybody noticed the color and tint colors not being available on the digital inputs?

What has been your experience with STBs? My Voom STB is problematic using a 35 ft Mono cable at the HDMI and DVI ports. When I change channels, the HD72 acts like the signal is lost and have to re-sync. No problem with the component port at the same cable length.

I didn't have this problem with my first HD72 that have the reset problem. (I did an exchange at Optoma USA. Very responsive bunch of guys.)

Greetings, A few pages back there was discussion about using the tripod mount on the HD72, instead of the (multiple) ceiling mount holes. Since this would allow a quick and easy inverted mounting on a back wall, and probably save some money too, I contacted Optoma.

My response from product management:

"Art,

Hello. Regarding your question about using the tripod attachment to mount an HD72 projector...

We have looked at this and it will work. The threads & attachment point for the HD72 are reinforced.

That said, for stability, anti-vibration and mount longevity, we do recommend using a multi-point mount rather than the single point tripod attachment."

So, one might conclude, that it will work fine, but, it may be susceptable to "heavy footsteps", etc. I guess we'll have to wait until someone actually mounts one that way, and gives us some feedback. -a

You don't have to think Yamaha. The Infocus IN76 does the "weave".
You got me there...but for a mere $1K more :(

Anyone know what's up with Optoma's support, I've written them twice about my resetting unit with no response. When I used to write Infocus I would get almost immediate support. I'm really starting to wish I stuck with them.

Hmmm, I just called them on a different issue and they were very responsive. Great service.

Maybe they just don't check thier e-mail, guess I'll have to use the old fashion way of getting in touch. Good to hear their nice on the phone.

You got me there...but for a mere $1K more :(
AVS is having a Powerbuy for $2250 if you're an AVS Club member, $2350 if your not a member. ;)

The plate was cut from a sheet of steel purchased from a hardware store. Four holes were drilled to match the four metric size mounting screws at the bottom of the HD72. Washers between the plate and the ceiling (beam) act as shims to bring the projector to perfect alignment with the screen.

Construction details.
1. Steel plate is approximately 12” x 6” x 1/16”. Use a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade to cut to shape.
2. Add 1/4” spacers between the plate and the bottom of the projector to even out the non-flat surface and to improve circulation.
3. Snap off the front projector foot for extra clearance.
4. Paint the plate to match your ceiling.
5. The square hole for the rear projector foot is optional.

Greetings, A few pages back there was discussion about using the tripod mount on the HD72, instead of the (multiple) ceiling mount holes. Since this would allow a quick and easy inverted mounting on a back wall, and probably save some money too, I contacted Optoma.

My response from product management:

"Art,

Hello. Regarding your question about using the tripod attachment to mount an HD72 projector...

We have looked at this and it will work. The threads & attachment point for the HD72 are reinforced.

That said, for stability, anti-vibration and mount longevity, we do recommend using a multi-point mount rather than the single point tripod attachment."

So, one might conclude, that it will work fine, but, it may be susceptable to "heavy footsteps", etc. I guess we'll have to wait until someone actually mounts one that way, and gives us some feedback. -a

I used the tripod screw at first but the case pulls out a bit so I switched to the four 3m screws. I like the metal plate idea and saw some metal sheets at the hardware store. The cutting looks difficult.

Ryan, the emails get backed up there, quick way is to call. They'll take care of you on the firmware and shipping, welcome back. :)

The HD72 really is a super projector, to think I paid up near $1500 for the H30 SVGA not to long ago. enjoy

The plate was cut from a sheet of steel purchased from a hardware store. Four holes were drilled to match the four metric size mounting screws at the bottom of the HD72. Washers between the plate and the ceiling (beam) act as shims to bring the projector to perfect alignment with the screen.

Sueio, that looks nice, but appears that plate would cover a vent on the bottom?

I've just added an ND2 filter to my HD72, and the result is subtle but well worth it. Would recommend anybody else considering going the same route to do so without hesitation. Dark scenes take on a whole new dimension of perceived depth and darkness, and those whites are tamed by just the right amount. It's also diminished any dither in low level colours and blacks.

The filter is the 58mm Hoya HMC NDx2. With a tiny amount of blue-tac on the top and bottom and each side, it sits perfectly on top of the inside step above the lens.

I've just added an ND2 filter to my HD72, and the result is subtle but well worth it. Would recommend anybody else considering going the same route to do so without hesitation. Dark scenes take on a whole new dimension of perceived depth and darkness, and those whites are tamed by just the right amount. It's also diminished any dither in low level colours and blacks.

The filter is the 58mm Hoya HMC NDx2. With a tiny amount of blue-tac on the top and bottom and each side, it sits perfectly on top of the inside step above the lens.

I've done the same and agree completely. I don't even notice dithering anymore, and the dark scenes take a new level of realism. The 0.3 (1 F stop) cuts almost 50% of the brightness which I thought would be too much, but not so - even on a 120" screen.

I used a $5.50 sheet type filter, cut to size, and affixed to the front of my anamorphic lens casing, but your solution sounds better for standard installs.

I purchased my ND filter here. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=productlist.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=gam+ND+filter&image.x=0&image.y=0)

I picked up my HD72 from UPS this morning on my way to work. I brought my cheapo dvd player from my bedroom and a movie to test with... and set it up in my office aimed at my whiteboard. It actually looks pretty good.

I connected it to my PC via DVI and was amazed by the video quality of a WMV HD video @ 720p for about 2 minutes until my video card died from the stress. Of course this isn't the pj's fault, but damn it looked nice compared to dvd. I could see the compression artifacts plain as day on dvd even on my ~50" whiteboard.

Pixel structure was fairly visible up until about 1 "screen" width away when it almost vanished. I can't wait until I move to my new house and bolt this sucker to the ceiling.

I need to sell my old TV (mitsubishi 46807) and unfortunately it seems that everyone wants a plasma now and there's very little interest in a high definition rear projection set like mine. I wish I had space for it in my bedroom or something :) If I could get the old set out of the way I'd setup the PJ on my coffee table until I move (in a few weeks from now).

Up until this morning I never really understood what people meant when they said "film-like", but now I do. I always figured it was some mythical thing similar to the way crazy audiophiles talk about sound. :) I can see every grain in the film when viewing with this Optoma. I can't wait to see it at 92". I think I'm going to be jonesing for HD-DVD very soon now.

I used the tripod screw at first but the case pulls out a bit so I switched to the four 3m screws. I like the metal plate idea and saw some metal sheets at the hardware store. The cutting looks difficult.

Ryan, the emails get backed up there, quick way is to call. They'll take care of you on the firmware and shipping, welcome back. :)

The HD72 really is a super projector, to think I paid up near $1500 for the H30 SVGA not to long ago. enjoy

Google "machine shops" and there's one in the top three results located in NJ that can custom make up a nice bracket. It might cost 100 bucks, but if ya want it....

-RiverWolf1

I've done the same and agree completely. I don't even notice dithering anymore, and the dark scenes take a new level of realism. The 0.3 (1 F stop) cuts almost 50% of the brightness which I thought would be too much, but not so - even on a 120" screen.

I used a $5.50 sheet type filter, cut to size, and affixed to the front of my anamorphic lens casing, but your solution sounds better for standard installs.

I purchased my ND filter here. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=productlist.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=gam+ND+filter&image.x=0&image.y=0)

If I'm looking at the right thing the Hoya 58mm ND2 is only $19.50 which would be cool if it's the same thing that Damien used on his HD72.

Make sure you're buying a multi-coated filter. They're a bit more expensive, but will produce fewer reflections.

My projector is on its way back from Optoma.

They seem to have had some fun with it. First the chap on the phone said that engineering kept it back to take a closer look, then he noticed a note on the system that said the bulb was broken. I guess UPS used it for a football at some point!

Anyway, they're sending me a shiny new one for my trouble, should be here tomorrow. In time for some Kong!

FWIW, the RMA website of theirs is hopeless and the guy went so far as to say it's not worked properly for at least four months, so don't bother trying to track your RMA on it! I called them today after UPS' tracking saying it arrived there Monday and without any progress report...

Chris.

Hey all,

I was searching in this large thread to see if anyone is using this projector with a 60"x140" constant image height screen. I would like to use a similar set up with the Vutec SoundScreen (0.85 gain). Maybe i missed it but I couldn't find anyone in this forum with this type of setup. I know Mike who posted the screens using his constant height setup used a 120" wide screen. Do you all think that using this combo (pj+prismasonic lens + screen) would be adequate. I calculated that the approximate range from min to max brightness created a brightness of 9fL to 16fL. I used 2/3 the brightness of the manufactured brightness rating (1300*2/3) for the max condition and 1/3 the brightness for the minimum brightness calculation. But these are just approximations. I just wanted to know if anyone has actually used the PJ on a similar sized screen. Thanks

RKaliki,

No one to my knowledge is using a screen that big. You'll be fine if you're within the 9-16ftL range, but just keep in mind to obtain that lumen output you'll most likely be running the lamp in high mode (additional fan noise) with a little Brilliant color. You'll also want full light control. You could probably get away with the lamp in low mode for the first few hundred lamp hours though.

If you do this you'll have one large and gorgeous 2.35 CIH image. Just watch out for SDE with a screen that big. I'd try to sit about 16ft or greater from the screen.

Mike

Thanks Mike,

Yeah I'll have 3 rows of seats at 11.5', 18' and 24' from the screen. I think that from what I've heard this PJ should be bright enough for this setup. My local dealer was trying to suggest getting the HD7300 but I just don't see why I need to spend another 4K for a projector that doesn't even have the brightness of the HD72 (1000 Lumens for the HD7300 vs. 1300 on the HD72). And outside of spending in the $20K range for a 3 chip 720 p PJ I can't see any other options that would match the quality of this projector. Thanks for your help, can't wait to get my system up and running.

Thanks Mike,

Yeah I'll have 3 rows of seats at 11.5', 18' and 24' from the screen. I think that from what I've heard this PJ should be bright enough for this setup. My local dealer was trying to suggest getting the HD7300 but I just don't see why I need to spend another 4K for a projector that doesn't even have the brightness of the HD72 (1000 Lumens for the HD7300 vs. 1300 on the HD72). And outside of spending in the $20K range for a 3 chip 720 p PJ I can't see any other options that would match the quality of this projector. Thanks for your help, can't wait to get my system up and running.


Rahul,

You may also wish to consider the Samsung H710AE, if the additional cost isn't an issue for you. After a great deal of thinking, and also after input from several knowledgeable people on this forum who have seen both projectors, I decided to go with the Samsung. One issue for me was a modest concern regarding quality control and customer service, given problems with lamp life on the H7X series and reset issues here (though I realize that many have had no problems and others have had their issues addressed quickly by Optoma).

You may wish to look at the Samsung thread in the over >$3500 forum before you make a final decision. Also look at the reviews by Jason Turk of that projector (and competitors, including the IN76 and Optoma HD7100). I liked the idea of spending the price of the HD72 and only replacing it when 1080P projectors became more affordable, but decided that the stretch in price to the Samsung would be well worth it after reading the glowing reviews.

That said, I have no doubt that I would have been very happy with the HD72. Thanks to those who have posted in this forum, as your input was very instructive as I made my decision.

KK

Rahul,

You may also wish to consider the Samsung H710AE

KK

Yes, look at the Samsung but also know it does not support vertical scaling for 2.35. Also, in defense of the HD72, it is not in any way the same bulb or design as the H78/79, the FW reset is already fixed, and Optoma support has been very good to me regarding the reset FW upgrade. They hot swapped my old projector with a new one - all shipping was paid for by Optoma. This won't even be an issue for you if you're just now ordering one...

The Samy is also pretty bright calibrated, but you'll need to spend an additional $1000+ for an external scaler to get the equivalent 2.35 setup. Additional cost for Samy + scaler is over 2X the cost of the HD72 :eek:

Mike

Is there any point in using 16:10 mode (1280x768) if one can set the PC video card to output 1280x720 instead?

I guess it would only be required if the PC was used to play games that don't support wide screen resolutions.

Yes, look at the Samsung but also know it does not support vertical scaling for 2.35. Also, in defense of the HD72, it is not in any way the same bulb or design as the H78/79, the FW reset is already fixed, and Optoma support has been very good to me regarding the reset FW upgrade. They hot swapped my old projector with a new one - all shipping was paid for by Optoma. This won't even be an issue for you if you're just now ordering one...

The Samy is also pretty bright calibrated, but you'll need to spend an additional $1000+ for an external scaler to get the equivalent 2.35 setup. Additional cost for Samy + scaler is over 2X the cost of the HD72 :eek:

Mike

Mike you may be interested in the comments from JKP over in the Samsung thread (and again you may not :D ). They were asked about the Constant Height issue and were quite vehement in their opinions. Opinions vary of course, but they do not like the 2.35 CH concept at least not with the current lenses and 720p.

Mike you may be interested in the comments from JKP over in the Samsung thread (and again you may not :D ). They were asked about the Constant Height issue and were quite vehement in their opinions. Opinions vary of course, but they do not like the 2.35 CH concept at least not with the current lenses and 720p.

I did read them and couldn't disagree more with that line of thinking. People run 2.35 setups without an anamorphic lens by zooming and blowing up a smaller portion of the pixel grid (25% less pixels blown up). I think this is less desireable resulting in greater SDE and light spill from the top and bottom gray bars. More and more people are catching on to the benefits of 2.35 CIH setups. By vehemently denying/ignoring this they will only lose business. It's cheap and easy to add this scaling - even a 480p H31 can do this without breaking a sweat!

I also don't lose any image quality with 16:9 and 4:3 material either. My external anamorphic lens has a pass-thru mode which allows you to run the projector as if the anamorphic lens wasn't even there - it's a truly a win-win situation.

Mike

Mike,

Keep in mind that this projector initially had a 10k+ price point, and it's target customer was someone interested in a reference display of the highest quality. Thus, if the customer were to go 2.35, they'd use a high-quality external scalar. However, I agree with your wishes for such a feature. I'd buy the Samsung without a doubt if it had the scaling built-in.

Mike,

Keep in mind that this projector initially had a 10k+ price point, and it's target customer was someone interested in a reference display of the highest quality. Thus, if the customer were to go 2.35, they'd use a high-quality external scalar. However, I agree with your wishes for such a feature. I'd buy the Samsung without a doubt if it had the scaling built-in.

Indeed, my main concern with their philosophy was future designs. Given how easy it is to provide this scaling onboard (not a lot of horsepower req'd), I'd hate to see it not inlcuded because the designers look down on 2.35 CIH setups or the lenses used to accomplish that...

After seeing the HD72 in action I'd be hard pressed to pay 2-3 times more for 720p single chip DLP and external scaler - although I'm biased here having not seeing the Samy in action. This may be a case of ignorance is bliss! :)

Mike and kktx,

You know oddly enough, I started looking into the Samsung yesterday night before it was suggested and thought it might be the PJ for me. In fact, I called my local dealer and had him look the PJ up and give me a quote. It seems to have gotten glowing reviews from a lot of people but the lack of an internal scaler kinda has me leaning toward the Optoma. If I were to get the Samsung it would probably have a better picture but obviously would require an external scaler. I was thinking about getting a scaler anyway but wanted to wait for the HQV products coming out soon (???) such as the Algolith Dragonfly or the Lumagen RadianceXS. Yet, these product seem to be frequently delayed and my construction is going to be finished in May.

On the other hand, the Optoma does seem to come with a great scaler already so bascially I would be spending nearly $3K for a deinterlacer. And instead of spending that money on an interlacer I could get the Algolith Mosquito and fix an area where the HD72 is lacking (judging by the audioholics review).

I rearranged my living room today to temporarily setup the hd72 until I move. I'm projecting on the wall and can see rainbows like crazy.

Does anyone know if textured wall shows rainbows more than a real screen? It isn't so bad that I hate it but it is pretty obvious even if I don't look for it. I'm hoping the screen makes a difference, otherwise I'm afraid that I must be one of the unfortunate few sensitive to this.

has the H72 any lamp problems ? thanks

Yes, only when shutting it off!!!

:D

ok. looks like a reliable machine. the Benq 7700 is not.

You know oddly enough, I started looking into the Samsung yesterday night before it was suggested and thought it might be the PJ for me. In fact, I called my local dealer and had him look the PJ up and give me a quote. It seems to have gotten glowing reviews from a lot of people but the lack of an internal scaler kinda has me leaning toward the Optoma. If I were to get the Samsung it would probably have a better picture but obviously would require an external scaler.

The scalar in the Samsung is a perfectly good scalar (certainly comparable, if not better, than the one in the HD72). However, it lacks the vertical stretch required for 2.35 constant height.

I am doing a basement renovation and am considering this projector along with the AE900 and Z4. My ceilings are 7'5 for the first 10 feet to the screen then 6'7 for the back 8 feet to the rear wall. I've pretty much eliminated this projector from my list due to posts I've read about the offset. Does anyone have any thoughts as to wether or not the HD72 would work for me?

Rod

Rod

You haven't told us what size screen you would use and wether your theater is one or two rows of seating. A 7.5 ft ceiling height would limit you to about a 92" diagonal (16x9) screen, and with the offset, anyoneone who wasn't in a front row may have trouble seeing the bottom of the screen.

Just got my projector today. Tried it while projecting on the textured wall - no problems with the rainbows or anything else - looks great even via S-Video. For some reason component colours are all bluish - any suggestions?
I am using projector 15 feet from the screen - diagonal 120" - colours are awesome!! Love it so far. My Buffalo player is arriving next week as well as few HD DVD from IMAX - can't wait to see HD content!!!
I had seen Sanyo on the same wall - not even close!!! Go Optoma.

Just got my projector today. Tried it while projecting on the textured wall - no problems with the rainbows or anything else - looks great even via S-Video. For some reason component colours are all bluish - any suggestions?
I am using projector 15 feet from the screen - diagonal 120" - colours are awesome!! Love it so far. My Buffalo player is arriving next week as well as few HD DVD from IMAX - can't wait to see HD content!!!
I had seen Sanyo on the same wall - not even close!!! Go Optoma.

Get this to calibrate your HD72:

http://www.visualapex.com/accessories/accessory_details.asp?chPartNumber=Avia&MFR=OvationMultimedia&Type=Software

I have it already, but the difference is striking - very good picture on S-Video and totally screwed up Component. As far as calibration goes - I'll wait for the screen. 120" diagonal - YESSS!!!

It might be a menu setting that is causing the bluish component picture. In the menu got to Image then Advanced then Color Space and change it to the other setting (RGB->YCbCR or YCbCr->RGB). I was playing with this setting and it turned my sceen image to blue.

Also could be your red cable is not connecting well....had this problem a couple times.

Thx Jerry. I was hoping for 100" but I can settle for a 92". There will only be one row of seating (couch). I'm thinking that the HD72 prob isn't a great option for me though.

Rod

Rod

I know, unfortunatly that unit isn't for everyone. I have a 9'-10" ceiling and it's going to work perfectly with a 100" screen.

Has anyone found a way to change the color of the background when the PJ hasn't Synced? The bright blue is a little too much for my taste. Also, is it possible to change the Optoma logo to a custom image on start-up. I could do this with my NEC, bit I don't see how with this PJ.

Problem with Component input fixed - I had to manually switch output on my DVD player (Phillips 642) to component. Can't wait to get my upconverting player and see whether it is going to make any difference - the picture is pretty awesome even using regular one.
But now I started to worry about the size of the screen - is 120" going to work with 9 feet ceilings?
I guess I would have to mount the projector at the closest throw distance from the screen.

Problem with Component input fixed - I had to manually switch output on my DVD player (Phillips 642) to component. Can't wait to get my upconverting player and see whether it is going to make any difference - the picture is pretty awesome even using regular one.
But now I started to worry about the size of the screen - is 120" going to work with 9 feet ceilings?
I guess I would have to mount the projector at the closest throw distance from the screen.

You should be fine with 9' ceiling -- short throw with HD72 has larger offset (37%) compared to long throw (32%) so you'll be better off using long throw IMO -- it is also advisable to mount PJ at long throw for pic quality (advice from AV installer). PM me if you need help with mounting numbers -- BTW, do I see some Russian "doctor" origin in your user name ? :)

I am trying to position my screen as high as possible on the wall, so that we can have a dance floor in front of the projector. Isn't that being accomplished by mounting the projector as close as possible to the screen? Wouldn't that also allow for the best brightness of the screen (I am putting it in the walk-out basement).
BTW - any suggestions as far as motorized drapery for the windows - those appears to be so bloody expensive - motorized blinds for 1 window - 600-700$!!! I have 2 windows and a glass door - it is going to cost me more to fix them than to buy a projector - weird.
As far as my nickname - that does come from a russian kid's book - Doctor Ajbolit.

I'd hate to repeat old questions but between the 47 some odd pages and an unsuccessful thread search, I have to ask... where does one get replacement bulbs? How much do they cost? The projector seems like such a good deal but if bulbs cost a ton, I might pay more down the line considering how much I plan on using it.

They hot swapped my old projector with a new one - all shipping was paid for by Optoma.
Mike

Uatatoka,
I'm getting ready to hot swap my projector with Optoma, but I have a couple of questions. When they hot swap, do you keep the new projector, or do they send your old one back to you? If you keep the new one, have you had any issues with it that you did not experience with the first? Thanks.

Add me to the list of new HD-72 buyers that have the reset problem. It is kind of distressing, having to take it down and then re-mount the sucker when it returns from Optoma.

I'd hate to repeat old questions but between the 47 some odd pages and an unsuccessful thread search, I have to ask... where does one get replacement bulbs? How much do they cost? The projector seems like such a good deal but if bulbs cost a ton, I might pay more down the line considering how much I plan on using it.

A 250watt bulb generally lists at $395 plus. Optoma will have them plus dealers may deal on them.

Add me to the list of new HD-72 buyers that have the reset problem. It is kind of distressing, having to take it down and then re-mount the sucker when it returns from Optoma.

You keep the new one.

Bluesboyjr (and any others w/ reset issue),

The hot swap is real easy. They send you a new one and UPS picks up the old. I've had no issues since I got the new one with almost no down time (they picked my old one up Thursday and the new one arrived Friday). They charge your credit card for the price of the new one, then credit your account once they get the old. If you don't want to do this then you can have your projector shipped to Optoma, they'll upgrade the FW, and send it back at still no cost to you with longer down time.

Mike

I am trying to position my screen as high as possible on the wall, so that we can have a dance floor in front of the projector. Isn't that being accomplished by mounting the projector as close as possible to the screen? Wouldn't that also allow for the best brightness of the screen (I am putting it in the walk-out basement).
BTW - any suggestions as far as motorized drapery for the windows - those appears to be so bloody expensive - motorized blinds for 1 window - 600-700$!!! I have 2 windows and a glass door - it is going to cost me more to fix them than to buy a projector - weird.
As far as my nickname - that does come from a russian kid's book - Doctor Ajbolit.

Go for long throw (furthest from the screen - 1.0 zoom), this will allow you to minimize offset and put screen as high as possible (if you do ceiling mount) -- be careful not to put it to high though, guideline is that your eye level should be at the point of 1/3 of the screen height from the bottom.

Brightness is not affected by throw distance rather by screen size (although one might argue that there will be some light loss for longer throw, but it will be very insignificant) -- bigger the screen, dimmer the picture -- PJ has certain number of lumens that have to be spread over screen surface, bigger surface will result in smaller number of lumens for sq foot of the screen. Another plus for using long throw is that there will be less image distortion since there is no zoom involved (I am not an AV pro but have read this opinion many times on AVS so don't shoot the messenger if I am wrong). If brighness is a concern you might want to go for screen with higher gain, but I think that HD72 is bright enough already :)

Cheap motorized drapes system can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655482

HTH :)

Go for long throw (furthest from the screen - 1.0 zoom), this will allow you to minimize offset and put screen as high as possible (if you do ceiling mount) -- be careful not to put it to high though, guideline is that your eye level should be at the point of 1/3 of the screen height from the bottom.

This is a recommendation...... but not a hard and fast rule... some folks actually prefer their screens a bit higher... plus it will accommodate a second row easier. YMMV

Brightness is not affected by throw distance rather by screen size (although one might argue that there will be some light loss for longer throw, but it will be very insignificant) -- bigger the screen, dimmer the picture -- PJ has certain number of lumens that have to be spread over screen surface, bigger surface will result in smaller number of lumens for sq foot of the screen. Another plus for using long throw is that there will be less image distortion since there is no zoom involved (I am not an AV pro but have read this opinion many times on AVS so don't shoot the messenger if I am wrong). If brighness is a concern you might want to go for screen with higher gain, but I think that HD72 is bright enough already :)

Well not exactly............. what you say is true.... BUT... with this type of lens the smaller the aperture (less zoom) the less light is getting out. This was measured by the folks over at WideScreen Review magazine and can be as much as a 40 - 50% drop in light getting out of the projector... so you have a lot less light with this lens closed down for zero zoom than you would if it was opened up all the way to max zoom.... unfortunately it is all a "trade-off." Yes optically using the smallest section of the center of the lens is arguably better........ but you will lose a significant amount of light by doing so. That is why you have to decide which compromises will be best in your Home Theater.

This is a recommendation...... but not a hard and fast rule... some folks actually prefer their screens a bit higher... plus it will accommodate a second row easier. YMMV


Thanks HiHoStevo,

Recommendation was based on the need to put screen as high as possible from the floor -- longer throw provides smaller offset for HD72 and higher screen for ceiling mount. :)



Well not exactly............. what you say is true.... BUT... with this type of lens the smaller the aperture (less zoom) the less light is getting out. This was measured by the folks over at WideScreen Review magazine and can be as much as a 40 - 50% drop in light getting out of the projector... so you have a lot less light with this lens closed down for zero zoom than you would if it was opened up all the way to max zoom.... unfortunately it is all a "trade-off." Yes optically using the smallest section of the center of the lens is arguably better........ but you will lose a significant amount of light by doing so. That is why you have to decide which compromises will be best in your Home Theater.

Nice info, thanks. Perhaps the best option is somewhere in the middle of the throw range so you get the best of both worlds. However, since he is using 120" screen I think it would be better to go for the short throw if Widescreen Review data is correct for HD72. While long throw might work out fine for new bulb, there might be issues down the road.

Yup..... it is never "easy."

Everything you want is a series of trade-offs based on equipment and enviornment... unless you have unlimited cash of course...... :-)

Where to start...oh, I know...this is my first post! So yay for that I guess. I've been reading avsforum for quite a while, but never had anything to post about. You guys are truly interesting and are a fun read for me. Lots of bickering over tiny things, but I think that's what makes it fun. Where would we be if everyone just agreed? :D

The OptomaHD72 is the first projector I've ever owned. Only had it for about 3 days now. I have used a lot of LCD projectors at work and only one DLP projector(christie). I did a lot of looking around and decided that the HD72 fit my home theater needs nicely...decision between the Infocus IN76 and the Optoma HD72 came down to the price. I just painted a custom screen on the wall, 102" gray lite from Goo Systems. The thing looks amazing! As I understand it, DVD is currently at 480p and I'm using native 720p, which means the projector is scaling the 480p to 720p? Then when Blu-Ray comes out I will be downconverting/scaling from 1080p to 720p? I guess nobody really knows about the upcoming standards until they're actually here though.

Anyhow, I have a problem with the HD72 and I was curious if any of you "experts" have seen it before. ;) At random places on the projection I will see a rainbow color band that is 1 pixel wide horizontally and between 100-400 long vertically. It doesn't stay on the screen more than a few second usually. I was able to play a game through my PC(DVI-D) at 1280x768 for several hours without ever noticing a single one appear. I see about 50 of them during a 2 hour movie through component cables(the ones that came with the projector). They aren't always at the same spot, have the same length, or stay up for the same amount of time. The good book(optoma user manual in this case), tells me if I see "vertical colored bars" to adjust the phase to match the video card. I assume this means it can only be adjusted when plugged into a PC. The option isn't available when using component inputs at least. I've tried 4:3, 16:9, 16:10, letterbox, and native. It shows up a little differently on each format, but still shows up.

I talk to much and you would rather just have a picture you say? Sure, but don't make fun of my camera fodding skills too much. I'm a novice at that too. :rolleyes:

img334.imageshack.us/img334/714/colorband9im.jpg

Thanks in advance guys.
-Derrin

So before I buy an electric screen, I'm split between getting a 4:3 or 16:9 one, since I want to have full benefit of PC full resolution (16:10) for PC input. If I use an electric 4:3 screen, I can set the screen to any length (but it would only be framed on 3 sides -- top left right).

For DVD movies, would there be any benefit in scaling the 720p fullscreen into 16:10 mode or just use native mode? It is a bigger image (with a bit of the edges chopped off, which means I go for a 4:3 screen.

Or just stick with a 16:9 screen?

Can different zoom modes be set into memory depending on source input?

So the best option appears to be to put a projector into the middle of the throw distance - for 120" it should be around 15 feet from screen? Isn't that a recommendation of the manufacturer anyway?

So the best option appears to be to put a projector into the middle of the throw distance - for 120" it should be around 15 feet from screen? Isn't that a recommendation of the manufacturer anyway?

I have mine at 189". With a 9' ceiling, if you mount the projector directly to the ceiling and set the top of your 120" screen to around 24" from the ceiling, you'll need no keystone and vertical shift. See my post on page 47 titled "A simple mounting plate" for an idea on a mount.

I was very pleasantly surprised. Optoma sent me an advance replacement for my resetting unit. They have made more changes than just a firmware upgrade. The new unit has what looks like a IR reciever on the front that wasn't there before. IR reception is drastically improved, now I can point my remote at my screen and it will respond perfectly. No more having to point it at the PJ. And I'm using the same original remote, so it's a change with the unit. Now I just hope it doesn't reset on me.

I was very pleasantly surprised. Optoma sent me an advance replacement for my resetting unit. They have made more changes than just a firmware upgrade. The new unit has what looks like a IR reciever on the front that wasn't there before. IR reception is drastically improved, now I can point my remote at my screen and it will respond perfectly. No more having to point it at the PJ. And I'm using the same original remote, so it's a change with the unit. Now I just hope it doesn't reset on me.

Cool. I just ordered mine from TVA yesterday. I assume most are drop-shipped from Optoma.

Can you post a pic of the revised front?

I could just describe it better, I might be wrong and it might just be a design they forgot on my first unit. But on the bottom of the front on the opposite side away from the lens, there was a small design that looked like it should have a logo or something in it, but it was blank. On my new unit the spot is black and looks like a IR reciever, although it could just be a black little design. I'll try to post a pic. Whatever they did, the IR is much much better. Even reviews complained about having to point the remote at the unit, but not anymore.

I just place my order too, hope it's good :)

And then this other retailer called me because I emailed him many many times about different screens I was interested in (complete-it.ca) and he was like dissing the optoma hd72 unit and saying that optoma quality was very poor and it wasn't something on his recommended list!

Having read through the entire thread (and, frankly, understanding about half of it), I wanted to thank all of you for your kindness ot newbies and for graciously answering what must be repetitive questions.

So of course, I have questions. There have been some similiar situations posted, but nothing quite answered my question. Other than online research, I'm new to this -- never had a projector (heck, never had more than a 32" television), so I'm a bit confused.

We're currently building a theater in the basement, which is completely light-controlled, 13.5'x22' -- and with a 93" ceiling. I know that the offset of this projector is problematic with a ceiling mount, but I've also seen some posts that suggest it is doable.

We have zeroed in on this projector for a variety of reasons, and I really want a 106" screen (92" x 52"). From the throw calculator, this projector should be placed at 12'1" - 14'6". Many of the posts have suggested the longest throw range possible, to minimize the effect of the offset, so I figured things from 14'6".

We can cheat the mount a little into the ceiling, so the center of the lens is 90". This leaves the top of a 106" screen at 19.9" from the ceiling, and the bottom of the screen at roughly 18" from the floor. Too low, right? It needs to be at least 24" in order to make sure we're not staring at our feet. We're used to television images up higher, so we may be overly sensitive to this) I'm not sure I understand why/how zooming in (and mounting the projector at 12') doesn't result in better screen location. A number of people have said that the lower screen (< 2' from the floor) is ok -- I based the 2' on the 1/3 up the screen height rule).

Two things have been suggested: tilt the projector to raise the image and then tilt the screen slightly to compensate; or tilt the project and use the keystone correction to re-sqare the image. Either one has been noted as "unacceptable" by some, and "ok" by others. By my calculations, at 14'6", each degree that the projector is tilted = ~3" on the wall. I'd need to angle it up only a few degrees.

So, on to the questions:
1) have I totally boogered the calculations? Does this look right?
2) given that I want to raise the image only a few inches (let's say 9" or ~3 degrees), woudl this result in such a large keystone correction that it would be very noticeable? Our seating is 14' back, if that makes a difference. If we opted to tilt the screen a bit, can anyone point me to the calculations of how much?
3) If we really can't make this fit, what would everyone recommend as a comparable projector? We can probably swing the extra cost for a H78, but I'd prefer to stay in the same price range, and I've seen the Infocus 76 and Mitsubitshi 3000U mentioned.

We're not audio-visual connoisseurs by any means -- important things to us are extremely clear picture and no noticeable pixelation. I've been limiting the search to DLP projectors, since the ones I've seen have a fabulous picture, but I'm open to suggestions.

Phouka,
Just read your post and since this is my first as well it is probably not appropriate for me to issue you a "welcome". I share w/you the same amount of "prior experience" but I have been enjoying my new HD72 for about 8 weeks. My short answer to you is: My projector height is about 7'-6", throw distance is about 16ft., vertical keystone set on 3 and I'll be darned if I can discern ANY ill effects at all. The screen surface is vertical. This forum has been a great help, but I must say sometimes it has not.

Thanks, Junaluska. From your distance, I assume you have a 106" screen? How much higher did you have to angle the projector? My biggest concern is having the bottom of the screen too low.

I know more about color-balancing and settings that I'll probably ever need to know, but the information shared here has been incredibly useful.

HD72 owners,

I have had the projector for about 3 weeks now and love the picture. I noticed the other day there is a buzzing coming from the projector that starts after I hear the color wheel start spinning. I have tried switching from high altitude to normal thinking it might be the fan but it hasn't changed this. I didn't notice this when new, (about 75 hours now). This sound is like the buzzing of an electrical transformer and not audible over movie audio but audible over the fan. Also there is a smell of metal when I use the projector that has been present since new.
I had a L300U prior to this projector so I don't know if this is normal for a DLP or not.
I have not had the reset issue, but I have noticed when the menu is at the top of the screen it does crop off some of the menu as compare to when it is at the bottom. I don't know if this is a firmware issue, but it didn't do this before either.
Has any other owner noticed any of these issues?
Thanks
Darren

fleaman,

Thanks for the reply. That is just what it sounds like. I just went to check it and it sounds like it's more prominent on the back right side. Also when I shut the lamp down, the buzzing stopped.
I also wondered if something was wrong, as this projector was not much brighter than the and L300u with about 600 hrs on it. I had heard how this was a very bright projector (I thought I read 850 calibrated lumens) but it was not a very big improvement at all.
Thanks again for the reply, I'll give Optoma a call.

Darren

also, the dlp chip in the hd72 is 1280x768 pixels (48 extra pixels in 720p mode). so you will have an additional 3.5 inches of vertical image shift at your distance and screen size (the same as my setup) without losing 1:1 pixel mapping. therefore you'll need even less tilt.
Am I correct in my understanding that since I am going to watch primarily DVDs, that my image will actually be 720 and the image can be adjusted up within the existing "frame" so that the actual image aligns with the top of my screen and the 3.5" sits at the bottom. Right? Is this something that needs to be reset every time?

OK -- off to find the user manual. My issue is that I want/need to confirm that this will work while they are still framing the basement, so I know where it needs to be mounted and can make sure there is adequate space (ie, able to mount the player in a recess in the ceiling -- two inches or so). Perhaps not the best idea to design a theater for a specific projector, but this particular projector is apparently picky about height.

I will definitely purchase from a vendor with a good return policy -- we'll do the best planning we can, then just try to install and see what happens. Thanks!

We're currently building a theater in the basement, which is completely light-controlled, 13.5'x22' -- and with a 93" ceiling.

We can cheat the mount a little into the ceiling, so the center of the lens is 90". This leaves the top of a 106" screen at 19.9" from the ceiling, and the bottom of the screen at roughly 18" from the floor. Too low, right? It needs to be at least 24" in order to make sure we're not staring at our feet.

I guess nobody actually read your post, but if you do the math, you're screen will be 21.1" off the floor (19.9+52=71.9", 93"-71.9"=21.1"). So not that bad. If you really want it 24" off the floor I would tilt the projector up slightly and just zoom the picture a little bigger than the masking of your screen so that you'll never know that picture isn't perfectly square. You'll never notice it otherwise.

"I assume you have a 106" screen? How much higher did you have to angle the projector? My biggest concern is having the bottom of the screen too low. "

The final dilmensions are yet to be determined. I started with a 5'x10' sheet of 1/2" sintra. Once I determine what size screen/viewing distance is most agreeable, I'll either mask this or buy a screen. The top of the screen is about 7'-10", that is all the height I had to work with.
p0rl1n,
Your point is well made, my vision is about on par w/your hearing!

Phouka,

Your situation is about identical to mine. Up until buying the HD72 I only personally owned a 32" TV. Also like you, my projector is going into a basement project. I've put a lot of work into it...9 months ago the room was not a room at all...just dirt under the house! Lots and lots of digging :) But anyhow, the offset on the projector worked out great for me. I have a center channel speaker mounted above the screen instead of below. That means with this projector I get to mount it closer to the ceiling than any other projector, which is good for a basement with low ceilings like yours and mine. I'm also putting in a drop ceiling, so that will put the projector away from my new ceiling by about 2". Very close to the ceiling means less hitting of your head on the projector! Diagonal, my screen is 102", but I have floor standing speakers on each side of the screen, so 102" was the max I can physically do. The projector is about 13' from the screen and zoom is set close to the middle. Zoom all the way to one side or the other usually doesn't have as good of clarity as it is in the middle.

About that keystoning...Don't do it! It worked good on CRT projectors, but not so good on DLP. My friends were laughing at me for trying to get the projector dead center from the screen wall. After it was done they stood 6' from the screen watching whatever I had showing at the time. I keystoned it by 1 and you should have heard their expressions. "Put it back!" It's more visible on text than movies however, so if you plan on just movies you'll probably be ok with keystoning...but then again, to me, buying a 720p projector and keystoning it is equivelant to buying a $500 projector and not keystoning it.

I'm painting my screen on the wall using screen goo(goo systems). Like someone mentioned, this is another one of those cabling and keystone issues. I did this because I wanted to get the biggest screen I could for where it was being projected, and I wasn't completely sure what size the screen was going to be when it was all said and done. Since I didn't keystone at all, my projected image is .25" longer on one side than the other. I don't care who you are, you can't see .25" difference on a 102" screen...unless you're Chuck Norris I guess.

I had to send my projector back to Optoma and they're going to send me a new one. The technician thinks it might be dropping frames or have a problem with the video processing...I have no idea, I just know it's not my problem now! He was very insistant that I was the first person he's seen have this problem with the HD72. Refer to my previous post and picture if you're curious.

Let me know if you want me to take exact measurements of something. It sounds like you're going to be ok with the measurements you've listed. Just get low sitting seats! ;) Here is a pic of my work in progress to give you an idea. You can see that my screen is about centered on the wall. ~2' above and below. I can't post links until a few more posts it seems...but I'm sure you can copy and paste. ;)

img410.imageshack.us/img410/1553/wip0nu.jpg

-Derrin

Can anyone comment on how this PJ compares to the Infocus 4805 in brightness?

Thanks,

TC

Another question. It seems that the H72 and new Infocus projectors are not a real step up in black level and contrast over the 4805 and H31, but is there a step up in shadow detail? The best black level in the world is still not as important as shadow detail to me.

With those two units its more of a resolution increase. Entry level 720p.

fleaman,

Thanks for the reply. That is just what it sounds like. I just went to check it and it sounds like it's more prominent on the back right side. Also when I shut the lamp down, the buzzing stopped.
I also wondered if something was wrong, as this projector was not much brighter than the and L300u with about 600 hrs on it. I had heard how this was a very bright projector (I thought I read 850 calibrated lumens) but it was not a very big improvement at all.
Thanks again for the reply, I'll give Optoma a call.

Darren

Well, this is interesting. I was reading this page (catching up on things) and noticed that my post regarding the buzzing was gone...deleted! Yet I didn't delete it.

It would of been between post #1462 and #1463 (seems quite obvious when you read both of those posts).

Is there some sort of censorship going on here?

??

Well, this is interesting. I was reading this page (catching up on things) and noticed that my post regarding the buzzing was gone...deleted! Yet I didn't delete it.

It would of been between post #1462 and #1463 (seems quite obvious when you read both of those posts).

Is there some sort of censorship going on here?

??

I was wandering that too. I figured you PM'd him about it...but alas, the plot thickens!

See the announcement at the top of the main page. Some posts had to be deleted due to server issues. That could be the cause...

Well, this is interesting. I was reading this page (catching up on things) and noticed that my post regarding the buzzing was gone...deleted! Yet I didn't delete it.

It would of been between post #1462 and #1463 (seems quite obvious when you read both of those posts).

Is there some sort of censorship going on here?

??

Fleaman, I remember reading your post yesterday. However, it was out-of-order, because the time-stamp was in the future! It made the thread a little confusing to follow.....

I think JeffKB is right. The mods could not correct your post's time-stamp, so they decided to delete it instead.

/FP

I think it was right about that time that the reponse was up and I noticed the times were messed up as well. I read the reply and then couldn't find it the day after. I appreciate the clarifying response also. I think it looked like I was crazy for a while.
-Darren

The scalar in the Samsung is a perfectly good scalar (certainly comparable, if not better, than the one in the HD72). However, it lacks the vertical stretch required for 2.35 constant height.


Just noticed this comment while searching information on the Sammy 710 and wanted to state that an HTPC will do the stretch just fine so that an anamorphic lens can be used . I own the HC3000 , which like the 710 does not have the stretch built in , and have considered adding a Panamorph to the mix because I use HTPC as my primary playback source . The HTPC allows for total aspect ratio control and a decent HTPC can be built for far less than a good scaler and even out perform it . It is nice that Optoma includes this feature in their Projectors however .

;) ----- Jason

Jason..............

Have you by chance read in the Samsung 710AE forum the "reason" Joe Kane Productions does NOT support the Constant Height output on the 710?

I am not experienced enough to know if he is correct (he certainly is earnest), but it makes for an interesting read.

Just noticed this comment while searching information on the Sammy 710 and wanted to state that an HTPC will do the stretch just fine so that an anamorphic lens can be used . I own the HC3000 , which like the 710 does not have the stretch built in , and have considered adding a Panamorph to the mix because I use HTPC as my primary playback source . The HTPC allows for total aspect ratio control and a decent HTPC can be built for far less than a good scaler and even out perform it . It is nice that Optoma includes this feature in their Projectors however .

And Infocus. I am not looking to use a HTPC because I want a future-proof projector for Blue-Ray/HD-DVD - which certainly can not be siphoned through a HTPC scalar (and probably not for a few years, if at all - HDMI on a computer is enough to make those studio boys jump out a window).

As for the reason, it compromises the image quality because the image is stretched digitally and then stretched optically (not nearly as bad, if not transparent). Furthermore, the projector was designed at a 10k price point - if someone with that kind of money to throw around was interested in stretching the image digitally, he or she would most certainly buy a high-end scalar for this functionality - hence, the stretch mode on the projector itself would go unused - of course, this is my opinion, not Joe Kane's.

Got the reset issue here in the UK as well. I noticed that my lamp hours had reset and the PJ had lost some of its carefully inputted settings :( . Phoned Optoma and they said 3-5 days for firmware upgrade. I enquired about the hotswap and they said that the machine they sent would only be a loaner and they would want it back when my own machine was finished! Is this different to the US service Optoma give? I think I read earlier that with a hotswap in the US you get to keep the new PJ.

Otherwise, couldn't be happier with the HD72. Have added an NDx2 filter and the blacks are fantastic!

Jules

Thinking that the HD72 may be the PJ for me. The only real question I have about it is the ImageAI mode. Does this change the lamp from high to low mode or is the range lower than the lamp would be in low mode? Are people using it or not, if it is off and you run in low mode only would the blacks be the same but the whites not as bright? It seems the the iris on the HC3000u would give better blacks but that the same could be possible with a filter on the HD72? If you use the ImageAI mode do you find it a distraction as some people do with the iris on the AE900?

Thinking that the HD72 may be the PJ for me. The only real question I have about it is the ImageAI mode. Does this change the lamp from high to low mode or is the range lower than the lamp would be in low mode? Are people using it or not, if it is off and you run in low mode only would the blacks be the same but the whites not as bright? It seems the the iris on the HC3000u would give better blacks but that the same could be possible with a filter on the HD72? If you use the ImageAI mode do you find it a distraction as some people do with the iris on the AE900?

The AI mode in the HD72 varies the output of the lamp.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD72/imagequality.asp

Jason..............

Have you by chance read in the Samsung 710AE forum the "reason" Joe Kane Productions does NOT support the Constant Height output on the 710?

I am not experienced enough to know if he is correct (he certainly is earnest), but it makes for an interesting read.

I would have to agree with Joe Kane on his reasoning as it makes sense to me but at the same time there is nothing wrong with having more features available to the consumer IMO ( I wouldn't knock Mitsu if they had included it with the HC3000 ;) ) .

----------- Jason

The AI mode in the HD72 varies the output of the lamp.


Yes I know that and stated that in the post. If you read my question it is more about how it does it , and the range of the lamp change. I.E. lower than low lamp setting?

Got the reset issue here in the UK as well. I noticed that my lamp hours had reset and the PJ had lost some of its carefully inputted settings :( . Phoned Optoma and they said 3-5 days for firmware upgrade. I enquired about the hotswap and they said that the machine they sent would only be a loaner and they would want it back when my own machine was finished! Is this different to the US service Optoma give? I think I read earlier that with a hotswap in the US you get to keep the new PJ.

Otherwise, couldn't be happier with the HD72. Have added an NDx2 filter and the blacks are fantastic!

Jules

Here they handle it by letting you keep the projector with the firmware and just sending the one in need back. While they hold your credit card for ransom though.

I've read through this thread with interest. This projector may fit my requirements for a FP, but, as many have noted, the 6.5 degree offset might be an issue. If the projector were mounted directly to the ceiling (as some have detailed) then that would solve the problem for me. However, I don't see anyone discussing Optoma's instructions in their user manual(p. 41) to maintain a 10cm clearance from the ceiling when mounting on the ceiling.

?

Thanks, in advance.

- s.west

... I don't see anyone discussing Optoma's instructions in their user manual(p. 41) to maintain a 10cm clearance from the ceiling when mounting on the ceiling.

?

Thanks, in advance.

- s.west

I personally would (and plan to) leave the recommended spacing as listed in the manual. It's for airflow/circulation...

Here they handle it by letting you keep the projector with the firmware and just sending the one in need back. While they hold your credit card for ransom though.

That's what I thought. I'll have to ask them why they don't do this in the UK when I call customer services on Monday.

On another note, I stuck an NDx2 filter on my HD72 on Friday and got fantastic blacks. Only problem is that the image just looks dull and lifeless now. So when I was watching LOTR last night I switched on bright lamp mode and the vibrancy returned. Now, obviously this is working the bulb harder so it will expire earlier and the fan works harder so it's more audible. That's understood. My question is, however, am I technically getting darker blacks even with the lamp mode on bright, or is switching the bright mode on defeating the point of the NDx2 filter to the effect that I might as well just take the filter off and set the PJ back to normal?

Cheers

Jules

is switching the bright mode on defeating the point of the NDx2 filter to the effect that I might as well just take the filter off and set the PJ back to normal?

Cheers

Jules

To a large degree yes.

To a large degree

But not totally? Would it be true to say that because the NDx2 filter cuts the light output by a factor of 2 and bright lamp option increases lumens by something less than a factor of 2, what is happening is that I'm getting somewhat darker blacks than normal and a brightness which is slightly less than normal but still looks 'vibrant'? What I am seeing looks better than with just the filter on and with it off. Could anyone else using an NDx2 filter share their settings?

But not totally? Would it be true to say that because the NDx2 filter cuts the light output by a factor of 2 and bright lamp option increases lumens by something less than a factor of 2, what is happening is that I'm getting somewhat darker blacks than normal and a brightness which is slightly less than normal but still looks 'vibrant'? What I am seeing looks better than with just the filter on and with it off. Could anyone else using an NDx2 filter share their settings?

I think this would be true. You could try finding a filter with less light loss (25% vs 50% for eg). Also be sure to recalibrate your contrast and brightness settings with AVIA or DVE after the ND filter is installed. I found I have to increase my contrast (white level) setting significantly to restore proper white levels. This was not surprising though as adding a ND filter is similar to a gray screen. Guitarman uses one of these and his contrast setting was very high.

I found with the ND filter the blacks are better, but I also don't notice dithering and MPEG block compression artifacts so it is worth it for me. This makes for a more filmlike image. The drawbacks are the image gets washed out easily with any ambient light so better light control is key.

Yes I know that and stated that in the post. If you read my question it is more about how it does it , and the range of the lamp change. I.E. lower than low lamp setting?

As I understand it works similar to an auto iris, but instead of varying the aperature of the iris it varies to voltage to the lamp. I believe it varies anywhere between the low and high lamp settings. This is done with a real time analysis of the picture - for dark scenes the projector lamp setting goes lower for better black detail and higher for brighter settings. Lamp life will be somewhere between 2k - 3k hours since it's going betweeb low and high modes.

The downfall here is the lamp setting is tied to the fan, if you're sensitive to constant variation of the fan noise (I am) than this is bothersome. Aside from that it works fairly well at times and less so at others. I found it hunted around for the right setting in some scenes which was a distraction. I just leave it off to avoid all of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if others used it and didn't find it distracting.

Mike

Also be sure to recalibrate your contrast and brightness settings with AVIA or DVE after the ND filter is installed. I found I have to increase my contrast (white level) setting significantly to restore proper white levels. This was not surprising though as adding a ND filter is similar to a gray screen. Guitarman uses one of these and his contrast setting was very high.

I have read many posts by ISF techs that you really should not need to recalibrate contrast and brightness if they were correctly set in the first place. Since it's a neutral density filter, it should not affect your gray scale. It simply reduces the lumens output. If you've had to significantly increase your contrast, you might be blowing out your whites in the upper IRE range and are now actually losing white detail. Just a thought.

As I understand it works similar to an auto iris, but instead of varying the aperature of the iris it varies to voltage to the lamp. I believe it varies anywhere between the low and high lamp settings. This is done with a real time analysis of the picture - for dark scenes the projector lamp setting goes lower for better black detail and higher for brighter settings. Lamp life will be somewhere between 2k - 3k hours since it's going betweeb low and high modes.

The downfall here is the lamp setting is tied to the fan, if you're sensitive to constant variation of the fan noise (I am) than this is bothersome. Aside from that it works fairly well at times and less so at others. I found it hunted around for the right setting in some scenes which was a distraction. I just leave it off to avoid all of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if others used it and didn't find it distracting.

Mike

Thanks that was the reply I was looking for. If it doesn't go below low lamp settings it is just boosting the whites w/o lowering the blacks below low lamp setting. The fan speed changing would drive me nuts, I am very sensitive to the fan noise as the PJ will be very close to me my room is very small 11' square. Low fan noise on the L300u was ok rated at 28db. had to sell it couldn't live with the blue gray blacks anymore. I would be fine just leaving it on low lamp setting all the time as I did with the L300u.

I have read many posts by ISF techs that you really should not need to recalibrate contrast and brightness if they were correctly set in the first place. Since it's a neutral density filter, it should not affect your gray scale. It simply reduces the lumens output. If you've had to significantly increase your contrast, you might be blowing out your whites in the upper IRE range and are now actually losing white detail. Just a thought.

You're right. I just checked this again and was indeed losing detail, disregard my last comment on retuning white levels (I didn't follow my own advice and use AVIA last night when I up'd the contrast a bit). I'm going to try my .15 ND filter to get a little more lumens. This may be a better compromise, although I'm not sure if this is available as a screw type filter.

I'm going to try my .15 ND filter to get a little more lumens. Do I understand then that you're feeling a bit like me and that the NDx2 filter just deadens the picture too much? A .15 filter would be about right I think (didn't know anyone made one though) - would be interested to know your results and where you purchased it from. In the meantime, what effect would it have to increase the RGB gains? Will that brighten the picture?

Do I understand then that you're feeling a bit like me and that the NDx2 filter just deadens the picture too much? A .15 filter would be about right I think (didn't know anyone made one though) - would be interested to know your results and where you purchased it from. In the meantime, what effect would it have to increase the RGB gains? Will that brighten the picture?
Yes and no. I've been going back and forth with the 0.3 filter and I really like it for film use, but I like the brighter image for TV and HTPC usage. I could run the bulb in bright mode for TV use but that seems like a waste of bulb life. The 0.3 ND filter has only 50% light transmission, so it is not an insignificant drop in lumens.

I only found the .15 ND filter at bhphoto.com in the sheet type filter HERE. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=166160&is=REG&addedTroughType=search)

I just cut it to size and install on the front of my anamorphic lens housing. It would take some experimentation to use on the projector alone. Have yet to install the .15 but I'll let you know how the it works out when I do. Might be the happy medium we're looking for. Don't muck with your RGB or white/level settings however - this won't boost lumens, it will just throw off your color balance. You could try boosting brilliant color a bit. This increases lumen output but also can oversaturate colors so be careful when doing this.

I would be fine just leaving it on low lamp setting all the time as I did with the L300u.

Me too. The native contrast and brightness of the HD72 simply fixed in low mode is enough to bring a smile to my face. Longer bulb life is an added bonus.

Mike

Do I understand then that you're feeling a bit like me and that the NDx2 filter just deadens the picture too much? A .15 filter would be about right I think (didn't know anyone made one though) - would be interested to know your results and where you purchased it from. In the meantime, what effect would it have to increase the RGB gains? Will that brighten the picture?
Generally speaking, there are no 0.15 ND filters: ND Filter Types (http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/filter/filter-ND.html)
Also, a "very weak" filter may not make any practical difference.

Mike

Generally speaking, there are no 0.15 ND filters: ND Filter Types (http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/filter/filter-ND.html)
Also, a "very weak" filter may not make any practical difference.

Mike
I found one, but it's not intended for camera's like the screw type filters. According to it's specs it has 33% light loss as opposed to a .3 ND filter's 50% light loss. 33% light loss may be 'very weak' for outdoor camera shots in direct sunlight, but this application is different. For the HD72 that could be up to 283 vs. 425 calibrated lumens lost if using bright mode.

I hate to sound retarded but I can't figure out how the offest is going to work for me. (I've been trying but have given up)

How does the offset compare to the H27? I have the H27 and it works great mounted on a shelf on the rear wall. Is the offset of the H72 greater?

If the H72 offset will work for me it's going to be my next projector.

I'll admit I tried to calculate it but my math ain't so great.