On the >$3.5K forum there is a thread on the upcoming Optoma 1080p projectors (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589078), based on a Digitimes article (http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20051007AA054.html), the closing paragraph of which is relevant to this forum:

The company plans to launch a new 720p projector by the end of this year, priced less than NT$100,000 (US$3,006), down from NT$189,000 (US$5,682) at present.

So we'll probably have another $3,000 MSRP 720p DLP projector for CES '06.

Later in the thread, a forum member which is also reviewer for a Norwegian HT magazine added (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6354618 #post6354618):

If any wondered about the new cheap 720p, it's the H72. It's also a new nice design. I did see it in Oslo last week.

Something for everybody, great marketing. Imagine what the street prices may be. :)

Tom will Optoma be sending you the H72 to review?

A Projector People rep told me the H77 is discontinued. I wonder how this projector will compare to the H78. Anything you can share with us, Tom?

bump.

Rumors say that the H72 will be even cheaper than the HC3000... :eek:

1280X768 chip then?

Awesome! This is good news indeed.

Anyone seen any other public announcements out there on this?

__________________
Home Theater Dude (http://www.htdude.com/) DIY Home Theater
News, reviews and other worthy stuff about all things home theater.

anbjornk is the only one to have seen it in a trade show in Europe. I'd love to know its release date in the US. Cheaper than the HC3000 isn't saying a lot. The MSRP of the HC3000 is not set yet. Thank you LCD D5 for keeping prices competitive for all.

anbjornk is the only one to have seen it in a trade show in Europe.

Not really, but I have seen it (Only the chassis really) Yes, it will have the new WXGA chip, and approximately the same spec as HC3000. (Take some, give some) The MSRP for the HC3000 in Norway is likely to be 3500$ (converted from NOK) The H72 is said to be under the 3k mark in Norway.

Thanks, anbjornk.

Unlikely to have lens shift at that price. I hope the offset isn't as big as the HC3000.

Unlikely to have lens shift at that price. I hope the offset isn't as big as the HC3000.

I don't think it will have lens shift. I have no idea about the offset.

Does anyone have some pics oft he H72?

I just got confirmation from Optoma China on telephone that H72 will be cheaper than H77.
Here is some info googled from a probably norwegian bbs site:
(.........
Fullversjonen er tilgjengelig her: : Offisiell tråd for Optoma H72
AVforum sponses av:


-Norges største blad om hjemmekino!


Anfield
13th October 2005, 14:59
Det har blitt snakket om denne projektoren i diverse tråder her på forumet, tenkte derfor å samle informasjonen i en tråd her. Dette er det vi vet om denne foreløpig:

1280*768 oppløsning
DDP3020-driver
4000:1
1100ANSI
HDMI,DVI, Component,S-video,
10 bit farge prossesering
ca 26dB.
Farroudja scalering
7 segments fargehjul med et hvitt felt
Brilliant Colour chip

Pris: I underkant av 18k
Levering: Februar 06??

Nevner at alle spec ikke er 100% låst enda, så det kan sikkert forekomme noen endringer, men dette gjelder p.t.
............)

Here is a paragraph from projectorreviews.com.:
...........
Optoma has a new H series projector scheduled for shipment in early December. The product is not officially announced, so all I can say, is that this new Optoma home theater projector will "replace" the discontinued H57, but be higher resolution. And, it will be far more affordable than the current H77 projector or my personal favorite, the H78DC3 DarkChip3 DLP home theater projector, (which, I should note, I'm considering as the replacement for my current BenQ PE8700+ projector in my own home theater).

I expect the new Optoma projector to arrive and be reviewed in advance of the first shipments!
...................

I hope its not going to be all big and bulky like the h77-79 series (though things looks like an old vhs player slash 386 computer terminals) but more like the h27-31 series or even slicker. I know thats being critical but id like it to look somewhat cool. we'll see jeff

I see Optoma will be at the EHX consumer electronics show (booth #384) in Anaheim in early Nov (9th-11th). Hopefully some of you SoCal members can visit and dig away some more info from them about the new H72 for us.

I hope its not going to be all big and bulky like the h77-79 series

It's not :)

I hope its not going to be all big and bulky like the h77-79 series (...) but more like the h27-31 series or even slicker.
The size of the projector relates to the size of the DLP device.
Large DLP --> larger optics --> larger lamp ---> larger projector and price.
Small DLP --> smaller optics --> smaller lamp --> smaller projector and price.

In June, TI announced availability of small 768p DLP device and chipset:
TI press release (http://dlp.com/about_dlp/about_dlp_press_release.asp?id=1261)

Mike

No one from Norway took photos of the ID during the Oslo show?

Since it's already been shown publically at trade show, I guess it's O.K. to post some photo here. The size is slightly bigger than H31, so much smaller than H77.

Here is an early ID, just to satisfy your curiosity. :) The end result may be slightly different, please wait for Optoma's formal announcement.

It's definitely to be shown at CES.

Not too Shabby ehh! I like that it has no vents in the front, because those frontal vents normally give some light spill.

No one from Norway took photos of the ID during the Oslo show?

Since it's already been shown publically at trade show, I guess it's O.K. to post some photo here. The size is slightly bigger than H31, so much smaller than H77.

Here is an early ID, just to satisfy your curiosity. :) The end result may be slightly different, please wait for Optoma's formal announcement.

It's definitely to be shown at CES.

Wow that's cool design! Many thx!
Now I just hope the offset is not too big, and that it throws an image no smaller than HC3000 at the same distance. Considering its cool apparence, maybe I will buy it anyway.

I hate the colour.

Black would have been better. Maybe they want it to disappear into the ceiling background?

Yuck, white, my ceiling is flat black, along with the walls.


muncey

check it out, these are not real, i changed the color.


muncey

nice looking--jeff

Muncey, Would you be so kind as to provide me with the model number for the red one? It's the exact color I need to have it blend into my ceiling and walls.

i painted them in photoshop, i wanted to see what a black one would look like.
sorry i should have stated it.

muncey

check it out, these are not real, i changed the color.

I would probably have painted my H79 black by now if it wouldn't void the warranty (most likely).

--Darin

i painted them in photoshop, i wanted to see what a black one would look like.
sorry i should have stated it.

Hehe... the funny thing is, YOU DID! :-)

Maybe we could get this thread "sticky" since with CES approaching fast, there will be more info coming out, and H72 being the new DLP projector using DDP3020 and WXGA DMD, it should be interesting to see how it competes with HC3000 or other new 720p LCD projectors.

TzungILin,

Since you work for Optoma what about you giving us some information?

I work for Coretronic, the DLP OEM manufacture for many brand names. Optoma is just one OEM customer.

R&D has early information, but R&D needs to be very careful about what to say, it really depends on the marketing folks on customer side to decide when to release and what to release.

Hence I can only suggest to make this sticky, and when information is available, people can easily find the info.

Since H72 was shown at Oslo, there are some basic information out, (see previous post from Norway web site), one can already gather many information from it:

new WXGA 1280x768
DDP3020 (the Brilliant Color chip)
Dual digital input

Let me comment on what is known. The DDP3020 Brilliant Color really works! It makes the color more vibrant, more vivid, the end result is that the image looks more 3D-like. However, for purist, one may still prefer the "film"-look or the "realistic"-look before the Brilliant Color enhancement.

Dual digital input maybe the first unique offering in this level of pricing. Nowadays, many people have more than 1 digital source, HDMI DVD, HDMI D-VHS, DVI-HDCP DTV STB, ... etc. This offers user the ability to connect up to two digital sources. Of course, one can buy 2-to-1 DVI switcher or selector. But for most average users, this provides an straight forward route. It's your pick, you can connect directly to two digital source, or you can still use a switcher or switching it from you new A/V Receiver.

The image quality will give the LCD 720p competitions a pretty tough time. With H72 and HC3000 (and maybe other manufactures, INFOCUS, BENQ, as well) coming at competitive pricing, the Brilliant Color capability with DLP's higher perceived contrast ratio will leave consumers good alternatives to 720p LCD.

So, it's an ALL-WIN situation for the end consumer! :)

TzungILin, will the throw distance be like DV10, H57, or H27. Hope you can leak it!

TzungILin,

"The image quality will give the LCD 720p competitions a pretty tough time."

Another DLP showstopper for a lot of people is lack of lens shift.

Can you say if the H72 will have it?

Thanks

I work for Coretronic, the DLP OEM manufacture for many brand names. Optoma is just one OEM customer.

R&D has early information, but R&D needs to be very careful about what to say, it really depends on the marketing folks on customer side to decide when to release and what to release.

Hence I can only suggest to make this sticky, and when information is available, people can easily find the info.

Since H72 was shown at Oslo, there are some basic information out, (see previous post from Norway web site), one can already gather many information from it:

new WXGA 1280x768
DDP3020 (the Brilliant Color chip)
Dual digital input

Let me comment on what is known. The DDP3020 Brilliant Color really works! It makes the color more vibrant, more vivid, the end result is that the image looks more 3D-like. However, for purist, one may still prefer the "film"-look or the "realistic"-look before the Brilliant Color enhancement.

Dual digital input maybe the first unique offering in this level of pricing. Nowadays, many people have more than 1 digital source, HDMI DVD, HDMI D-VHS, DVI-HDCP DTV STB, ... etc. This offers user the ability to connect up to two digital sources. Of course, one can buy 2-to-1 DVI switcher or selector. But for most average users, this provides an straight forward route. It's your pick, you can connect directly to two digital source, or you can still use a switcher or switching it from you new A/V Receiver.

The image quality will give the LCD 720p competitions a pretty tough time. With H72 and HC3000 (and maybe other manufactures, INFOCUS, BENQ, as well) coming at competitive pricing, the Brilliant Color capability with DLP's higher perceived contrast ratio will leave consumers good alternatives to 720p LCD.

So, it's an ALL-WIN situation for the end consumer! :)


Would anyone dare to guess a street price for such a machine?

Greg

It'll only be guessing, but I believe the H72 can be bought for 2700-2800$ when it arrives.

asterix,

The throw ratio will be similar to H57. So, it's not long throw like H27 or extreme short throw like DV10, it's more in-between.

noah,

Unfortunately, H72 does not have lens shift.

I also like lens shift better. TI's strategy on bring the DLP cost down is to share or re-use the optical engine for data projector. Riding on the volume, they can have a lower cost overall for system (to cover their costly DMD chips!). So, sadly, that is why we only see lens shift on high end DLP, but not lower cost DLP.

Non-telecentric optical engine has higher contrast ratio than telecentric engine, DLP has been using non-telecentric engine for data projector for better performance and lower cost.

If the offset works for the end user, and they are not sensitive to rainbow, DLP still projects a better image, compared to LCD, with or without auto IRIS.

But with LCD camp adopting the auto IRIS, the good news for consumer is that if they are sensitive to rainbow, at least they now have an alternative that is very capable as well, at least the SONY HS50 has sown some very good image. Some have commented that Epson's implementation of auto IRIS is not as good as SONY.

I would think it will follow the same price track of H57.

I hope this thread become sticky though it is not officially announced.
Secondly, TzungIlin, could you say what is the 7th segment of the colorwheel if it is indeed 7 segment?

From what I've heard the 7th segment is white.

Anyone seen or heard any new info about the H72? The latest I've heard is that it is supposed to be released in Norway in January 06....

someone needs to hurry up and spill the beans on this new projector before I go out and buy an AE900!

I love the fact that it has Dual Digital inputs, very handy for those of use who dont have any digital video switching. saves having to buy a gefen.

someone needs to hurry up and spill the beans on this new projector before I go out and buy a HC3000!

I love the fact that it has Dual Digital inputs, very handy for those of use who dont have any digital video switching. saves having to buy a gefen.

Hey, guys, I think there are already enough of information that you need to know in this thread, especially in the spec from the Norway website.

The dual digital input was already mentioned there, it's 1x HDMI, 1x DVI/HDCP. Also mentioned was the 7-segment color wheel (and it is a white segment) and DCDi chip. These are already very different/unique spec than competing models.

And I've thrown in the ID look, so you should have enough info! ;)

If you can wait, this is really a time where one should wait, since there are quite a few projector makers that have not revealed their plan yet, for example Infocus, and Optoma (not officially). BENQ just released PE7700 and PE8720, I don't know whether they have plans for WXGA or not. NEC has not said anything yet. I'll bet CES is the "last" trade show for any maker to announce their 2006 line up. So it's just two more months ...

But if you can't wait, go either way (AE900, HC3000) would seem to be a good choice, since nowadays, projectors are all very capable now, you won't go wrong with a reputable maker. It's just the tiny details that offer the competitions some difference choices, like LCD vs. DLP, VB vs. rainbow.

H72 does have some very unique features planned that are worth wait a little (for those that can wait):

1. dual digital input, 1x HDMI, 1x DVI/HDCP
2. 7-segment CW to have more Brilliant Color effect!
3. DCDi de-interlacer for 480i and 576i signals
4. A new feature for further image enhancement (and I can say no more), this combines with BrilliantColor can render a more 3D perception image.

It's your choice! To wait or not to wait! :D

4. A new feature for further image enhancement (and I can say no more), this combines with BrilliantColor can render a more 3D perception image.


RGBYMCW colour wheel? ;)

When is this projector supposed to be available in the US market?

I know that BC works on the HC3000, I want to know how it works on another projector especially if it has a RGBCMYW colorwheel? ;)

I think it's rgbrgb+clear white like the HC900 color wheel, no?

This H72 is definitely the awaited year end Optoma 720p release. But with no lens shift, that means what, perfect shelf mounting only? And what kind of chip is this using? It's not going to be the Dark Chip 3 so what is it?

Sounds like a cheaper competitor to the still unreleased Mitsu. The cost alone should give more folks another real 720p option. That's a good thing.

It's the same DMD and the same DDP3020 chipsets that is used in the HC3000. I don't quite understand what you mean ... :confused: And both do not have lens shift.

Currently, there is only 0.65" 1280x768 DMD DC2 available, DC3 is not on TI's roadmap yet. So, H72 and HC3000 are using the very same chip.

In fact, H72 has DCDi, but HC3000 does not, so H72 has more design/features ...

So, your implication that H72 being a cheap make is really not that case ... ;)

But if you are refering to 720p in general, then, yes, the LCD competitors have lens shift, but each technology has its strength and weakness, it's good to the consumer that they can pick any one that fits their needs. :)

No doubt it will be released in US pretty soon to compete with HC3000. Just wonder when it will be available in China, where projectors are not popular. Optoma is indeed present here, but excludes H31 and H78 from their H series. As for Benq, PE series not even present except the low end PE5120 surnamed "rainbow machine".

Why use Faroudja in the H72 instead of Pixelworks, as in previous models? I think Pixelwork chips are superior..

H72 does have some very unique features planned that are worth wait a little (for those that can wait):

1. dual digital input, 1x HDMI, 1x DVI/HDCP
2. 7-segment CW to have more Brilliant Color effect!
3. DCDi de-interlacer for 480i and 576i signals
4. A new feature for further image enhancement (and I can say no more), this combines with BrilliantColor can render a more 3D perception image.

It's your choice! To wait or not to wait! :D

Here is my take on H72:
1. 10-bit color processing capability is useless with DVI input.
2. 7-segment includes white segment on top of RGBRGB to get higher on/off contrast. Mitsu gets higher rated contrast without any white segment.
3. De-interlacer (supplied by TI, DDP2000) in HC900 was already better than DCDi as found by many reviewers. I don't understand why Optoma wants to use DCDi rather than in-built de-interlacer (supplied by TI, DDP3020).
4. Dynamic black? Dynamic iris? Is the iris fast enough?

I won't wait for H72.

I will wait for H72 for a lot of personal reasons:
- Optoma's H30, the lowest end, is amazingly good for me. Pity it is only 800x450 when viewing dvd and is reported to lose signals by quite many users. No reason H72 will be less good than H30 or H57. H72's white segment might increase brightness while keeping the good contrast just as Mitsu HC900 does.
- Like H27 and unlike H57, H72's lens is physically offset to the direction I just want because the place where I can put it is not in the center.
- H72 gives a bigger image than HC3000, as H57 vs HC900.

I saw the machine and like the look of it. I'll take one of these for the sheer brightness and DCDI. Since when has DCDI become second rate? :)

Here is my take on H72:
1. 10-bit color processing capability is useless with DVI input.
2. 7-segment includes white segment on top of RGBRGB to get higher on/off contrast. Mitsu gets higher rated contrast without any white segment.
3. De-interlacer (supplied by TI, DDP2000) in HC900 was already better than DCDi as found by many reviewers. I don't understand why Optoma wants to use DCDi rather than in-built de-interlacer (supplied by TI, DDP3020).
4. Dynamic black? Dynamic iris? Is the iris fast enough?

I won't wait for H72.

Not quite! Here is why:
1. 7-segment used to be for On/Off contrast, not any more! Brilliant Color needs white segment, either you use the six spokes in between the RGBRGB or one could have a small white segment for more Brilliant Color effect. H72 has 10 steps, HC3000 has On/Off only. By finding the right size of the "small white" segment, we could offer more BC choices to end users.

2. We need to consider world wide market. DDP2000 is O.K. on 3-2 pull down, but 2-2 pull down is not good for EMEA. DCDi provides both NTSC/PAL 3-2 and 2-2 pull down with ease.

3. Scaling is another factor we looked into carefully. DCDi can output a good 720p directly, if DDP3020 is not good enough, DCDi can step in to help.

4. A small price paid for DCDi, we got two benefits, all-around de-interlacing and scaling choices. Plus, the marketing benefits.

Like I already said, one needs not to wait for H72 if the unique offering of dual digital, more powerful Brilliant Color, DCDi do not appear you. But if you find them interesting, and you are not in a hurry, why not wait around, just to see more choices?

1. 7-segment used to be for On/Off contrast, not any more! Brilliant Color needs white segment, either you use the six spokes in between the RGBRGB or one could have a small white segment for more Brilliant Color effect. H72 has 10 steps, HC3000 has On/Off only. By finding the right size of the "small white" segment, we could offer more BC choices to end users.

You mentioned in this thread that "purists" would prefer the realistic-look before the Brilliant color enhancement. The extra steps that H72 adds by including white segment is to increase on/off contrast, not suitable for HT use. Also, I don't remember reading anywhere that BC wheel needs white segment.

3. Scaling is another factor we looked into carefully. DCDi can output a good 720p directly, if DDP3020 is not good enough, DCDi can step in to help.

I was thinking just the opposite. If the DCDi in my Panasonic S97 is not good enough to output 720p, DDP3020 can step in to help. De-interlacing/scaling is better if done correctly at the dvd player level than at the projector anyway.

But if you find them interesting, and you are not in a hurry, why not wait around, just to see more choices?.

More choices are always better for consumers. Is H72 coming out in the early December as the projectorreviews.com suggests? Hoping to see the reviews before then.

I saw the machine and like the look of it. I'll take one of these for the sheer brightness and DCDI. Since when has DCDI become second rate?

DCDi works a charm with 480, 576 an 720 signals, but not with 1080i. Pixelworks handles 1080i beutifully.

You mentioned in this thread that "purists" would prefer the realistic-look before the Brilliant color enhancement. The extra steps that H72 adds by including white segment is to increase on/off contrast, not suitable for HT use. Also, I don't remember reading anywhere that BC wheel needs white segment.

I was thinking just the opposite. If the DCDi in my Panasonic S97 is not good enough to output 720p, DDP3020 can step in to help. De-interlacing/scaling is better if done correctly at the dvd player level than at the projector anyway.

More choices are always better for consumers. Is H72 coming out in the early December as the projectorreviews.com suggests? Hoping to see the reviews before then.

Yes, but how many potential buyers are "purists"? Offering more options and capability is better than none. Purist can just not use this function, but more users can enjoy selecting the needed enhancement as they prefer or desire.

But how many people have the best progressive DVD player? I agree if you have a HDMI DVD with DCDi carefully design-in, then there is no need for de-interlacer inside the projector. Just send a 720p HDMI signal from the DVD to any HDMI projector. Then again, most people do not even have progressive DVD, let alone HDMI DVD. You may have S97, then you don't need a projector with DCDi. But each case is different, I believe most people do not have proper de-interlacing on their DVD players.

As for BC needs white segment, you will see when more BC products come out. :)

what is the wheel speed of BC? 4x? 5x? also, hate to miss out on the ND segment. I can see dithering as close as 2 screen widths.......depending on content, sometimes even further. also, will the white segment not also cause high ire's to shift to cyan and also screw with the gamma?

thanks

what is the wheel speed of BC? 4x? 5x? also, hate to miss out on the ND segment. I can see dithering as close as 2 screen widths.......depending on content, sometimes even further. also, will the white segment not also cause high ire's to shift to cyan and also screw with the gamma?

thanks

The Norwegian importer has comfirmed it has 4x speed. A bit slow for my liking....

What about the Mitsubishi HC3000 - it has 6 segments per PC, but nothing on the color wheel speed? Is it the same? thanks.

I believe it's 5X..

I think its 6x as the LG AN110

Sticky Me Please! :)

It looks like this one will be out in sweeden soon.
http://www.hembiobrevet.se/?p=109
will this be a sticky soon as well?

This information has been picked from our Norwegian forum... ;)

It will be out i Norway in January 06 most likely.

what about US release date? still December?

well, now given the installation requirements for the HC3000 ( ceiling mounting ), I am pretty much just waiting for this to be released and hoping it performs well so I can order one!

the HC3000 is 4X so I guess the H72 is also 4X; too bad; I did not see much RBE with the 5X Benq 8700 but did not want to take a chance w/ a 4x like the Infocus 4805.

Information posted by a British retailer on avforums:

Optoma have just sent out their preliminary H72 specs, which they also refer to as the HD72! The spec sheet is boasting Faroudja deinterlacing (doesn't mention chipset) which should be good, and the projector is based on the new 1280 x 768 chip with BrilliantColour technology. But what is very interesting is that they're hoping for a price of under £1,500!!!

- Wide Screen Home Cinema Projector
- HD ready (720p)
- 1300 ANSI Lumens
- 3000:1 contrast ratio
- DCDi Faroudja video processing
- HDMI direct digital input
- BrilliantColor from Texas Instruments
- RGBRGBW Colour Wheel
- 28dB
- 132% offset, 1.6-1.9 throw
- 3000hr lamp
- DVI-I (RGB Scart possible) and HDMI connections


The throw ratio works a lot better for me than that of the Mits HC3000 (you heard that, Li On? ;) )

the HC3000 is 4X so I guess the H72 is also 4X; too bad; I did not see much RBE with the 5X Benq 8700 but did not want to take a chance w/ a 4x like the Infocus 4805.

True, the 8700 is one of the most rainbow-free single-chip DLPs in existence.

Hmmm, I was expecting to see a RGBCYMW color wheel.
It may be a 6x color wheel as the new LG projector.

132% offset, 1.6-1.9 throw
Does this mean that the offset is 32% of the image height?

the HC3000 is 4X so I guess the H72 is also 4X; too bad; I did not see much RBE with the 5X Benq 8700 but did not want to take a chance w/ a 4x like the Infocus 4805.

Even if its just 4x, I think the Brilliant Colour Chip contributes to less RBE, just like it does on the HC3000.


The british retailers details are a little different from what the Norwegian importer gives; The contrast should be 4000:1 and the AL 1100. So I guess we have to wait and see.....

Per Kosty in the mitsu hc3000 link, does the h72 include the following:

the newer 3020 ASIC processor and 10 bit greyscale chip?

Bummer, a 32% offset is way too much for my configuration, I need something between 0% and 10%. It would require a complete reconfiguration of my LR/HT room.

They've got pictures and retailer information - it seems odd that this thing would wait another 2 months before seeing the light of day, particularly with the mitu receiving all the new gen press by default - any word on the U.S. availability date?

And how is this thread not sticky?

And how is this thread not sticky?

Probably since the PJ is not formally announced in the US yet.

Greg

bump for updates

Per Kosty in the mitsu hc3000 link, does the h72 include the following:

the newer 3020 ASIC processor and 10 bit greyscale chip?

Yes, this was posted up a bit.

"new WXGA 1280x768
DDP3020 (the Brilliant Color chip)
Dual digital input"

http://www.projector-window.com/projector/optoma/optoma-051104.htm

Google translation:

* Optoma promotes the contrast gradient 4000:1 family theater projecting camera new product: H72

[ Window news projection ] the Optoma H72 standard resolution is 1280x720, the contrast gradient is 4000:1, the brightness is 1100ANSI 流明. It uses 10 bits digital pictures processing technology, provides the Farroudja processing chip, the DDP3020 chip as well as 7 sections of types color wheel, has the very strong performance ability in the projection picture color display effect aspect.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Compares with Optoma H77/79, Optoma H72 and moves the feeling in seemingly the fashion, in the performance parameter locates H77 and the H79 middle position, slightly abdicates to H79 but is higher than H77, these three section families theater product performance performance institute almost, obviously Optoma or extremely favors to in this product performance scope market, the Optoma H72 appearance causes the Optoma family theater product the market more to subdivide, causes the find price which the user suits compared to the high product. Moreover Optoma H72 relative innovation contour design, also displays Optoma in order to cause the attempt which multiuser choice its product makes.


TzungILin, guitarman, can any of you tell what the color wheel speed will be?

hmm Im starting to think this wont be out in December, considering they have yet to even formally announce it...

anyone think I will be disappointed if I get a mits hc3000 now and not wait for the H72?

I e-mailed the Optoma rep. who promptly replied that the release in the U.S. was scheduled for January.

any word of list price?

http://www.projector-window.com/pro...toma-051104.htm

Google translation:


Quote:
* Optoma promotes the contrast gradient 4000:1 family theater projecting camera new product: H72

[ Window news projection ] the Optoma H72 standard resolution is 1280x720, the contrast gradient is 4000:1, the brightness is 1100ANSI 流明. It uses 10 bits digital pictures processing technology, provides the Farroudja processing chip, the DDP3020 chip as well as 7 sections of types color wheel, has the very strong performance ability in the projection picture color display effect aspect......


Grubert, like you I desperately googled all news about H72 and got this so-called news too. It came probabely from chinese BBs who has members frequently checking avsforum news.

Grubert, like you I desperately googled all news about H72 and got this so-called news too. It came probabely from chinese BBs who has members frequently checking avsforum news.

I know. We are probably chasing our own tails. :rolleyes:

http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/show_floor/product_locator/product_details.asp?prodid=6035 This is info on H72 at CES in Vegas with an Optoma contact. I hope this is not against the rules. I couldn't get the rules page to come up.

anyone think I will be disappointed if I get a Mits hC3000 now and not wait for the H72?

Unless the H72 is a lot cheaper then NO. The HC3000 throws a stunning picture for the price. If your eyes are not too prone to the RBE then you will not be disappointed with the HC3000. The PJ gave me bad rainbows but if it wasn't for that I would of been happy to keep it for years.

Unless the H72 is a lot cheaper then NO. The HC3000 throws a stunning picture for the price. If your eyes are not too prone to the RBE then you will not be disappointed with the HC3000. The PJ gave me bad rainbows but if it wasn't for that I would of been happy to keep it for years.


yea I saw some rainbows on the mits too, but given the H72 is said to have a 4x color wheel as well, i highly doubt there will be any difference between the two.

I am bring this thread back. Here is something new from Korea:

http://www.aving.net/newproduct/default.asp?mode=read&c_code=01_01_16_01&c_num=9870&BTE_num=&sp_except=eng

http://image.aving.net/img/2005/12/16/seoul_optoma_03.jpg

...Via the CES Optoma page link. I asked about pricing and availability. This was the response I got:

"Geoff:

The product will be available in February. We will announce pricing
and
specifications at CES.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Ralph Merrem"

Does anybody out there have any more info? Price? Thanks.

Here I am getting excited about this PJ since it is time to upgrade my Z2 and *bam* no lens shift. I just don't understand why the "low cost" DLPs are omitting this feature since it is not expensive to implement. Even if they charged an extra $100 for the PJ, it would be worth it and more than cover the implementation costs.

I guess it is back to Cinema 550, Z4, or AE 900 land. Too bad the Cinema 800 is so expensive, it would be perfect!

Lens shift would probably be more like 500$...

I'm talking covering implementation costs, not mark up anbjornk.

I received an e-mail from Ralph about one month ago stating the H72 would begin shipping in January. Now it's February? I wonder what prompted the delayed shipping date.

I'll request again. maybe this time it'll take since we seem to be getting close...
Can I have a Sticky Please?

Optoma Themescene HD72
Due for launch first thing in 2006, the ThemeScene HD72 represents Optoma's second large push in the 720p DLP market. Not so long ago, the H77 (upgraded to H78, then ultimately becoming the H79!) shook home cinema foundations when it was launched at a price of £4,000, several thousand pounds cheaper than it's closest competitor. The H79 has since gone from strength to strength, slaying many giants on the way. But now it has a baby brother, the HD72.

The H72 is based on Texas Instruments new 1280 x 768 DLP chipset utilising DC2 technology. As with most projectors being shipped with this new budget DLP chip, the H72 boasts BrilliantColour technology but rather than use the partnering DDP3020 chip for video processing Optoma have gone with a far more exciting Faroudja based approach! The DCDi directional deinterlacing should give quite a dynamic image from video sources such as satellite television, which combined with the H72s high brightness is likely to make this a very, very popular projector.

Optoma's Zero Dead Pixels Policy on Themescene HD72


Optoma will gaurantee you a pixel-defect free projector, or a brand new replacement unit!

Optoma Themescene H72 Preliminary Specification
- 1300 ANSI Lumens
- 1280 x 768 resolution 16:10 aspect ratio w/ 16:9 native mode
- 3000 Hour lamp life
- 1.6-1.9:1 Throw
- 7-segment RGBRGBW colour wheel
- 3000:1 Contrast Ratio
- DVI-I (RGB Scart or VGA via adaptor), HDMI, Component Video 3xRCA (also available into DVI-I socket via adaptor), S-Video and Composite Video Inputs


Optoma Themescene H72 Warranty Information
- 3 Year, on-site, loan-exchange Warranty Included

ALSO;

Optoma has introduced the H72, a 16:9 projector featuring native 720p resolution, WXGA (1280x768) compressed resolution, a 4,000:1 contrast ratio, and 1,300 lumens of brightness. The H72 incorporates Texas Instruments’ DLP technology and DarkChip2 DMD chipset. The projector offers RS232 connectivity as well as DVI-I with HDCP, BNC, component, composite, and S-video inputs/outputs. Price: $1,999. Availability: second quarter of 2006. For more information, see Optoma at CES booth 20444, or contact the company at 888-942-2929 or at www.optomausa.com

1.6 -1.9 moderately long throw lens combined with a 32% image offset and no lens shift. Damn!!!

1.6 -1.9 moderately long throw lens combined with a 32% image offset and no lens shift. Damn!!!
ouch. dumb, dumb, dumb.

ruled out for purchase.

I just don't understand why the "low cost" DLPs are omitting this feature since it is not expensive to implement. Even if they charged an extra $100 for the PJ, it would be worth it and more than cover the implementation costs.


unlike LCDs it IS difficult (costly) to implement lens shift in single chip DLP. Because of the way light reflects instead of passthrough. LCDs get the lens shift kind of free, not DLP.

The cheapest DLP that has lens shift is the MetaVision line. Not so popular in the US market (under diff name).

1.6 -1.9 moderately long throw lens combined with a 32% image offset and no lens shift. Damn!!!

I don't understand why H72(and HC3000 too) choose such big offset. If you have high ceiling and small offset, you can still use extension tube or something to lower the projector; but if you have low ceiling and big offset, I don't know if there's anyway to do ceiling mount.

unlike LCDs it IS difficult (costly) to implement lens shift in single chip DLP. Because of the way light reflects instead of passthrough. LCDs get the lens shift kind of free, not DLP.

The cheapest DLP that has lens shift is the MetaVision line. Not so popular in the US market (under diff name).


I dont think this is true, the LGAN110 is in the same price range with similar specs and has lens shift

I dont think this is true, the LGAN110 is in the same price range with similar specs and has lens shift

It isn't entirely true. Sure, there would be an initial expense for engineering the light path architecture to allow for lens shift, but after that initial investment, the expense of a shiftable lens system would cost no more than on comparable LCD products. The BenQ PE7700 and Toshiba MT700 clone are prime examples of DLP machines with zero offset that would be ready to receive a shiftable lens system. The 7700 is now selling for less than the Panasonic 900. Granted, it doesn't have lens shift like the 900, but designing the unit with a shiftable lens in place of the current fixed lens wouldn't make for a significant cost difference, if at all.

It's all a matter of foresight and economics. My suspicion is that the H72 will simply occupy the same general physical architecture of the H57 (economics), instead of being redesigned to include a lens shift feature (lack of foresight). Note that when Panasonic implemented physical lens shift in the 700, the resulting architecture was different than the preceding 500 and 300 models, yet the cost remained the same. They obviously had the foresight to recognize the need for, and consequently the perceived value of, lens shift by the consumer. As a result, the 700 sold more than any other projector model during its lifecycle. Potentially, Optoma could have achieved similar results with the H72 if it had a little more foresight. The economics would have worked out favorably in the long run, but too many big companies can't look past the next quarter.

It's really too bad that Optoma hasn't recognized the fairly restrictive placement options on all but their most expensive models. Their PQ is exceptional across their entire line, but many potential buyers in the <$3500 category were forced to buy LCD because of placement flexibility and little else. Sadly, the H72 will not improve upon their options.

"Sure, there would be an initial expense for engineering the light path architecture to allow for lens shift, but after that initial investment, the expense of a shiftable lens system would cost no more than on comparable LCD products. "

What do you base this statement on? The off-axis nature of the DLP optical path makes it inherently more difficult.

That said, somehow NEC manges to do it in the inexpensive 410 and 510.

"Sure, there would be an initial expense for engineering the light path architecture to allow for lens shift, but after that initial investment, the expense of a shiftable lens system would cost no more than on comparable LCD products. "

What do you base this statement on? The off-axis nature of the DLP optical path makes it inherently more difficult.

That said, somehow NEC manges to do it in the inexpensive 410 and 510.

You answered your own question. The resultant image from any digital projection source doesn't have to be off-axis. Not with a little engineering.

The two DLP projectors that I mentioned were designed with zero offset, and the 2 that you mention added lens shift to a zero offset design. None of these projectors are expensive relative to their competition. How difficult can it be?

I hate to show my ignorance...but...I'm good at it, so...here goes :confused: Can someone please explain how this new chip works with 4:3 material? I have a 100" fixed 4:3 screen. We view a lot of 4:3 material and I've been hesitant to replace the screen as of yet. With the "passing" of the HT1100, I had decided to go with a 720P 16:9(ae900, z4,) and just "zoom out" to fill the 4:3 screen. Does this new chip allow for a full 4:3 image (like h1100), or just an improved 4:3 image INSIDE the 16:9 frame? Please excuse the dumb questions. I'm learning a lot here, but have a looooong way to go :D
Thanks

It isn't entirely true. Sure, there would be an initial expense for engineering the light path architecture to allow for lens shift, but after that initial investment, the expense of a shiftable lens system would cost no more than on comparable LCD products. The BenQ PE7700 and Toshiba MT700 clone are prime examples of DLP machines with zero offset that would be ready to receive a shiftable lens system. The 7700 is now selling for less than the Panasonic 900. Granted, it doesn't have lens shift like the 900, but designing the unit with a shiftable lens in place of the current fixed lens wouldn't make for a significant cost difference, if at all.

It's all a matter of foresight and economics. My suspicion is that the H72 will simply occupy the same general physical architecture of the H57 (economics), instead of being redesigned to include a lens shift feature (lack of foresight). Note that when Panasonic implemented physical lens shift in the 700, the resulting architecture was different than the preceding 500 and 300 models, yet the cost remained the same. They obviously had the foresight to recognize the need for, and consequently the perceived value of, lens shift by the consumer. As a result, the 700 sold more than any other projector model during its lifecycle. Potentially, Optoma could have achieved similar results with the H72 if it had a little more foresight. The economics would have worked out favorably in the long run, but too many big companies can't look past the next quarter.

It's really too bad that Optoma hasn't recognized the fairly restrictive placement options on all but their most expensive models. Their PQ is exceptional across their entire line, but many potential buyers in the <$3500 category were forced to buy LCD because of placement flexibility and little else. Sadly, the H72 will not improve upon their options.

Agree!! No lens shift is a deal stopper for me and many other cases...

only $1999.00 MSRP for an 16:9 HD DLP projector with 4000:1 contrast :D . So expect other manufacturers to follow suit, and real soon. With competition, you're looking at $1500 - $1600 on the open market.

And really, unless you're an optical engineer and/or work in electronics manufacturing, saying that adding lens shift to a projector design is an easy thing to do or that it can be done at a low cost is something where you really don't know what you're talking about. I've seen a manufacturer balk at putting $15 extra into a product (which would have added a significant increase in the product's usability) because it would end up adding $250 to the MSRP and take it out of its targeted price.

I think seeing an under $2k DLP with this resolution, this brightness, this contrast and their no dead pixel warranty is almost an unbelievable bargain when you look back to just one year ago. We're really starting to get spoiled by our excess of technological advancement and expectations for incremental jumps in technology at half of the price of the technology being replaced. I guess that next CES there'll be some who jump in on this forum and complain that the newest HD DLP projector for under $1000 doesn't have lens shift. But who knows? Maybe they will.

Well if you expect lens shift on this Optoma I think you will be sorely disappointed!

Word is that Optoma is PULLING lens shift off the new top line H80 unit!

So expecting it on the bottom of the line is an exercise in futility...

Taken from a TI press release:



Optoma's new high-performance, high-definition HD72 projectors are being announced at CES with an estimated street price of under $2,000. The HD72 projector offers 5000:1 contrast ratio, 1300 lumens and incorporates BrilliantColor™ color processing technology with a 7-segment color wheel to provide great color saturation.

The contrast spec is now 5,000:1. Maybe by the time the projector reaches the stores it'll have reached 100,000:1. :D

Anybody seen any specs on the fan noise? That is what ruled out the Mits for me... can't wait for a PQ comparison between the H72 and IN76....

Just talked to ProjectorPeople...they confirmed that the Optoma HD72 is $3999 MSRP...not the $2000 that was reported in the TI news release. So $3000 for HC3000 or IN76 seems more reasonable. Who are we kidding...these new generation price points are locked now (like new computers)...we will be riding $3000-$3500 for each new generation it seems. Sony bringing the HS-51A in at the HS-51 price ($3500) is another good example of that price point. They are going to let Panny, Sanyo, et.al. crowd fight it out for $2000 level which is paramount to grey market products.

Maybe we should rename this Forum <$2000...I wonder if the projectors will follow.
:D :D :D

Seems strange that the TI press release says they would street under 2K, that's a huge gap between street and MSRP.
I can't find any press release from CES 2006, isn't that where this projector was supposed to be announced? Anyone have a link?

1300 lumens? Jason just said it was not as bright as the H7xs.

December 2005 Pro AV magazine has a sampling of new products being shown at CES and shows the Optoma H72 with, and I quote: "Price: $1999."

If Mits HC3000 can go below 2k with rebate then Optoma should definitely go below 2k. As a Mits owner I can tell you that noise is not a problem with this projector. Then again, I am coming from a older and noisier Infocus model.

1300 lumens is what is says on the brochure I picked up from Optoma.

I was told at the Optoma Booth... February relase $2,999 MSRP. Which is identical to the MSRP for the IN76.

Thanks...HiHoStevo...this is the confirmation I have been looking for. I knew we should have made this the <$2000 forum...

Looks like we have a fight on our hands for 720p DLP at $3000 (Mits. HC3000, Optoma HD72, and Infocus H76)...just like the 720p LCD (D5 panels) at $2000.

Yup........ ain't if going to be fun!!

Braindew

You are comparing MSRP for the 72, HC3000 etc at $3000 with STREET prices for the LCD Z4, 900 etc.

Read the forums to see that all these will be very close in final price with the DLP units only slightly more expensive...and worth it IMHO.

Also read the forum rules ie no discussions of street prices.

I tend to agree with Bob......
the street prices for all of these units will probably be pretty close...

unless the LCD crowd feels a downward pressure from the competition of having DLP that close to them and moves a little farther down...

possibly with rebates or accessories...

That is the reason for my comment..."should be fun!"

Going back a couple of years...I have yet to see any "street" prices much lower than MSRP for these three DLP brands over the first year of life (assuming Infocus Screenplay, not business projectors). But, the LCD projectors can be found in all sorts of locations...thus allowing the "street" price to come down substanially (likely due to grey market influence). I think the most we will see is stuff like the $300 rebate that Mits. put out...or a free bulb that Infocus has been notorious to include to move sales (Optoma has done free screens). Anyway, IMHO you should count on MSRP for the 720 DLPs for 2006.

Going back a couple of years...I have yet to see any "street" prices much lower than MSRP for these three DLP brands over the first year of life (assuming Infocus Screenplay, not business projectors). But, the LCD projectors can be found in all sorts of locations...thus allowing the "street" price to come down substanially (likely due to grey market influence). I think the most we will see is stuff like the $300 rebate that Mits. put out...or a free bulb that Infocus has been notorious to include to move sales (Optoma has done free screens). Anyway, IMHO you should count on MSRP for the 720 DLPs for 2006.

if you have not found a H77/H78/H79 below list price within the first year you have not been looking.

Daniel.

how bout a sticky?? jeff

Sorry if this is stupid question or if this has been answered but are there two units the HD72 and H72 or are they the same unit? I keep seeing different specs being thrown around for this thing. :confused:

Perhaps you are seeing the HD7300............

It is a 720p projector bundled by Optoma with their new Scaler.

Sorry if this is stupid question or if this has been answered but are there two units the HD72 and H72 or are they the same unit? I keep seeing different specs being thrown around for this thing. :confused:

There's just one unit, dr.c. :confused: You're suffering from the usual pre-release speculation reports. I've also been watching the specs "change". As soon as the CR reaches 10,000:1, I'm buying this puppy :D

Too bad it doesn't have lens shift :(

I guess I'll have to go for PJ design model two or the pana 900

I have trouble understanding that it should be so hard to do, especially when pjdesign can do it, in a itty bitty tiny box :confused:

Well lens shift was a big enough problem that Optoma did not bother trying to add it to the new flagship H81 1080p projector.... they were more concerned with getting the projector to market, so lens shift was dropped.

It appears that whatever mechanism is used for lens shift in the DLP world has to be engineered in from the very begining and is not something that can be added easily later in the development phase.

Optoma rep emailed me a suggested street of $1999.00 for the H72, i hope I can post this, if not please kill it.

Optoma rep emailed me a suggested street of $1999.00 for the H72, i hope I can post this, if not please kill it.

According to the Optoma reps at CES, that is the retail price. It's a great unit, but they emphasized it is a entry level unit with no color management adjustments.

According to the Optoma reps at CES, that is the retail price. It's a great unit, but they emphasized it is a entry level unit with no color management adjustments.

Ok, help me out with this.

Does this mean no ability to change RGB independently during calibration? Or, is this referring to something else?

Pulled this off the Optoma USA press release page, dated Jan 5.


Optoma Launches its Latest 720p Home Theater Projector Featuring BrilliantColor™ and TrueVivid™ Technologies

LAS VEGAS ( Jan. 5, 2006 ) – Optoma introduces the HD72 home theater projector, a new high performance, digital projector for home theater enthusiasts. The HD72 features Texas Instruments’ latest 16:10 DarkChip2™ DMD chipset to deliver vivid digital images, as well as a 7-segment color wheel and 10-bit color per channel processing to give the HD72 higher lumens and deep color saturation.

With a proprietary 7-segment color wheel with BrilliantColor and TrueVivid color enhancement technologies, the Optoma HD72 produces superior color and deeper dark settings at the same time. And, with native HDTV and HD PC resolution at 1280 x 768 ( 16:10 ), the HD72 delivers a 5000:1 contrast ratio at 1300 lumens to deliver subtle color details.

With Optoma introducing a native 720p home theater projector with an estimated entry price point of under $2,000, the Optoma HD72 opens the projector market to budget-conscious, home theater fans that want high-quality and high-performance products.

The HD72 features BrilliantColor color processing technology to deliver higher brightness and provide truer, more vibrant colors to the projected picture. And, with 10-bit color per channel color processing, a 7-segment color wheel and its 5000:1 contrast ratio, the Optoma HD72 DLP ™ home theater projector delivers great color saturation and subtle color details for the best image quality.

With its new unique design, the HD72 also lowers the noise level usually associated with typical home theater projectors. The patent-pending wind tunnel cooling system is designed for near-silent operation with minimal light leakage.

Specifications:

Display Technology Single 0.65 12-degree DarkChip2 DLP ™ technology
Brightness (typical) 1300 lumens using 220W lamp
Resolution WXGA (1280 x 768) with native support for 720p (1,280 x 720) and XGA (1024 x 768)
Contrast Ratio 5,000:1 in ImageAI™ mode
Noise Level (typical) 27dB
Lamp Life (typical) 3,000 hours
Computer Compatibility VGA (640 x 480) to amazing UXGA (1600 x 1200)
Video Compatibility HDTV (720p, 1080i, 1080p), EDTV (480p), SDTV (480i), 576i/p
Aspect Ratio 16:10 native, 4:3 compatible NTSC , PAL , SECAM
Throw Ratio 1.58:1 to 1.9:1 (distance/width)
Horizontal Scan Rate 15 to 100 kHz
Vertical Refresh Rate 43 to 85Hz
I/O Connectors HDMI, DVI -I with HDCP, RCA component video, composite video (RCA), S-Video, two IR receivers, +12V trigger relays, RS-232 communication, AC power unit

The Optoma HD72 home theater projector will be available in Q1 2006 for $3,999 MSRP through authorized Optoma dealers

http://www.optomausa.com/PressRelease_Detail.asp?Press_id=28

$2K gap between MSRP and street price seems crazy. Not that I'll complain.

My speculation is that the DLP boys are feeling the gap narrow with the LCD camp and have finally gone after the final divider the $$$$.

The Optoma HD72 home theater projector will be available in Q1 2006 for $3,999 MSRP through authorized Optoma dealers



Looks like this news pushes the HD72 into the >$3500 forum.

I found a similar press release somewhere that stated "street prices under £2000"...I now wonder if that is what they meant. That would make more sense (about $3500). Anyway, for what you are getting $2000 would squash everything in its path (coupled with the Zero Dead Pixel policy). I still doubt that Optoma would street for anything under $3000 when all is said and done. I don't think I am invalidating any rules since I am having problems with any of the sponsers to give me a serious price quote.

The pricing story here is just odd. I understand the usual rules on not discussing street but this is more along the lines of talking about the press releases from TI and Optoma.

We'll know when we know but I'd really like a shootout between the H72 and the AN110. The other offerings are middle ground between the price and features of these two projectors. H72 real barebones but LCD like prices. AN110 with lens shift and powered zoom but far lower than other DLP projectors with these two features (but more than LCDs with these features).

Nigel

Odd is one way to put it. It's possible that this stripped down projector will debut (street) at the same price as the full-featured H78DC3.

How is $4K "LCD like?" Everything except the Sony HS60 MSRP's for about $1K less.

Odd is one way to put it. It's possible that this stripped down projector will debut (street) at the same price as the full-featured H78DC3.

How is $4K "LCD like?" Everything except the Sony HS60 MSRP's for about $1K less.

$4K is not. $2K is "LCD like". TI and Optoma have both given press releases with this number. It may or may not happen so it's not an "actual" street price but presuming current H78DC3 pricing is being a bit obtuse. The H78DC3 IS a great deal right now. Somewhat too dim for my usage which is why I'm looking forward to the AN110 (also somewhat dim for me) which may actually run more expensive overall.

If TI, Optoma and Optoma reps keep repeating $2K a good guess is that Optoma will set the MAP there. Now we're treading into gray territory so I'll stop with just repeating the TI and Optoma press releases.

Nigel

I see many people here are wanting HD7300 performance out of the HD72. The HD72 was made to compete in price with the Z4 and AE900. IN76, XV-Z3000, DT-500 and HC3000 also will fall right into this $2k group forcing the lower performing Z4 and AE900 down to $1800. Yes the large offsets will deter some but this can be worked around with a projector tilt up and a screen tilt down. A few degrees is all that is necessary and by my calculations is only about 2.7 to 3.5 degrees max. or by hanging the top of a 57x101.3 " screen out 2.75 to 3.6" from the bottom. A better picture anyhow since the screen is mounted so high. Also the higher gain retro screens will appear brighter.

I don't see issues with the larger offsets. I'd rather have the cheap DLP's compete in price with the newer LCD's. Like I said, there will be the HD7300 and DPX-830 high end 720p for those of you that insist on even better performance and features.

k

Ok, help me out with this.

Does this mean no ability to change RGB independently during calibration? Or, is this referring to something else?

That's right. No way to change R, G, and B independently. This could be a deal breaker for those who like to fiddle. For the novice, who doesn't want to bother with all the adjusting, it will be fine.

Michael

That's right. No way to change R, G, and B independently. This could be a deal breaker for those who like to fiddle. For the novice, who doesn't want to bother with all the adjusting, it will be fine.

Michael

The BenQ PE8700 was like that: you had to enter the Factory Menu to adjust RGB gain and bias.

Of course, you need the "cheat code" to access the service menu.

Odd is one way to put it. It's possible that this stripped down projector will debut (street) at the same price as the full-featured H78DC3.

How is $4K "LCD like?" Everything except the Sony HS60 MSRP's for about $1K less.


$4K isn't LCD like $2K is as we all know. However, when have you ever seen a new product's initial press release state both the MSRP and "out of the gate" street price? Brave new world.

I thank the moderators for a little leeway here on pricing talk. If the companys own press release states both MSRP and street, and a $2K difference at that, can't we?

OK...just got off the phone with Projector People...and they did confirm that they will selling these at the $2000 price point. Sounds like "Check" is in order (speaking in chess terms...I think they only take credit card anyway). Will Infocus, Mitsubishi, LG allow it to go "Check Mate"...the soap opera thickens.

I will tell you this...Infocus does not sway me with fancy box, Mitsubishi doesn't sway me with first out on the market, LG doesn't sway me with slim chassy and true RGBCYM wheel...optoma will have my money (especially with Zero Dead Pixel policy).

That's right. No way to change R, G, and B independently. This could be a deal breaker for those who like to fiddle. For the novice, who doesn't want to bother with all the adjusting, it will be fine.

Michael


this would be a big concern of mine if i were considering the h72.

muncey

Launching a product at half of MSRP is just plain goofy, but I'm not complaining.

Maybe they just wanted to live in the other forum?

Although Optoma's press release says $3999, in the CES news thread Jason says that the retail price will be $2999.

john

Although Optoma's press release says $3999, in the CES news thread Jason says that the retail price will be $2999.

john

That is the same price that the Optoma Rep quoted me at CES........ (MSRP that is)

Could be why the mods haven't pulled the trigger and moved this thread to the other forum.

I guess it wouldn't be the first time that a press release was inaccurate. What the heck, they were only off by 33%. :rolleyes:

Maybe the speculated vertical offset is inaccurate too! ;)

OK...just got off the phone with Projector People...and they did confirm that they will selling these at the $2000 price point. Sounds like "Check" is in order (speaking in chess terms...I think they only take credit card anyway). Will Infocus, Mitsubishi, LG allow it to go "Check Mate"...the soap opera thickens.

I will tell you this...Infocus does not sway me with fancy box, Mitsubishi doesn't sway me with first out on the market, LG doesn't sway me with slim chassy and true RGBCYM wheel...optoma will have my money (especially with Zero Dead Pixel policy).

Hmmm. That is an enormously tempting price. I did slightly prefer the picture on the LG though. It and the Optoma HD81 were the only DLP's that have given me no eyestrain at all...

That's right. No way to change R, G, and B independently. This could be a deal breaker for those who like to fiddle. For the novice, who doesn't want to bother with all the adjusting, it will be fine.

Michael

I don't know where this information is from, are you sure you get it from a reliable source?

I'll state officially here that HD72 comes with RGB gain and bias adjustment, as always as other Optoma H-series products.

HD72 has many nice HT features that some other projectors don't have:

1. 10-step adjustment for Brilliant Color (some competitor only On/Off)
2. 3-step True Vivid adjustment (image contrast enhancement to make image even more vivid, this is not the same as normal "Contrast", is something more ... :) )
3. It has RGB gain/bias to adjust to your liking. This has been the tradition of Optoma since H55, the first Optoma H-product.

Any other question? Let me know ...

No RGB control, where did that come from? :(

I guess I can buy one now. :) Tz what exactly is the color wheel setup RGB/RGBW RGB/RGBG?

Tzungilin, alright I have a small question: is the adjustable foot of H72 situated like H57 or HC3000?

With the case of H57 with a big offset already, I dont know why the height adjustment foot is at the front(near lens), which means you can make the image go even higher when the pj is on coffee table. Anyone needs to do that at all? While we can see the HC3000 is much more considerate for this issue.

TzungILin,

What do you feel is the largest reasonable screen size for the H72 ... or HD72 being that it is now 2006? Let's assume a 1.3 gain screen like you were using for the H81 at CES... I do not remember which screen you were using with the HD72?

For a 120" diagonal image, what would be the min/max throw distance?

Thank you,

Can someone help me out/explain the problem with NO lens shift? In my situation, I was looking at the Panasonic AE900. My ceiling is 7'2", and my projector will be about 15' from the screen. The screen will be 106", 16x9. Will the Optoma be suitable for my situation, or would I need the lens shift of the Panny?

Thanks.

You've got the distance, since the H72 has a moderately long throw, but this projector won't be a good match for lower ceilings.

It is reported to have Optoma's infamous 32% offset, which means that it must be mounted 32% of the screen height above or below the screen. A 106" diagonal screen is 52" tall, so the center of the lens will need to be 16.64" above the viewing surface for a ceiling mount. If you could mount the PJ tight to the ceiling, that would put the lens at approximately 5". Add the 16.64 to get 21.64" below the ceiling, and that's where you would mount your screen. You have 86" to work with. 86"-22"(21.64)=64". Now your screen is 52" high (excluding the border), so the bottom of your screen would be 64"-52" or 12" off the floor. Thats much too low.

If you have the option to place the projector about 12" off of the floor for a table mount scenario, then you'd be good to go. That would start your screen at about 28" which is where it should be.

Any other question? Let me know ...

will any of the new projectors have both H and V keystone correction?
i have this with my HT1000 and its become the most essential feature for me.
it the big reason i haven't upgraded yet to a 720p even though they've become very reasonably priced.

will any of the new projectors have both H and V keystone correction?
i have this with my HT1000 and its become the most essential feature for me.
it the big reason i haven't upgraded yet to a 720p even though they've become very reasonably priced.

I have never seen a projector without keystone correction. Even a pj with lensshift that I once played with has H and V keystone correction.

I=

Any other question? Let me know ...


Hi Tzung I have a couple of questions:

1) Does it have a sealed optical path?

2) I know it has Brilliant Color, does that mean it will also be using the TI chipset as the video processor as well or is it using another chip for that?

3) can it be pixel mapped 1:1?

4) Is it D65 callibrated out of the box?

Thanks
Mike

it can be pixel mapped 1:1 according the optoma people.

Man, can we get a sticky of this thing. Please :)

You've got the distance, since the H72 has a moderately long throw, but this projector won't be a good match for lower ceilings. I hate to belabor this, but since it continues to come up on every page ...

The offset is a red herring for people using fixed screens. As others have said, in this and other threads, all you need do is tilt the projector up a bit, and shim out the top of the screen a bit.

Think of the entire projector and screen as rigidly linked - imagine tie-rods going from top and bottom of screen to top and bottom of projector. Now, just rotate the projector up until the top of the screen is where you want it. With a 15 or 20 foot radius, moving the screen up a foot or two is only a few degrees of rotation, and the top of the screen only comes out a couple inches from the wall.

Of course, drop down screens hang plumb, so this is still a problem for them (unless they could fashion a track that would pull the screen bottom toward the wall a couple inches)

Do you recommend this for a ceiling mount as well, shimming out the bottom of a screen :confused:

Not a red herring at all for those who do not consider tilting their fixed screen an acceptable option.

That should be for a ceiling mount. The problem with the larger offset for folks with too low a ceiling is the projected image falls too low on the wall. Hence the suggestion for the tilt up.

Big offset and small throw seems more suitable for coffeetable mount.

Nigel

I am getting one from Projector People. Yes, at the street price of press releases ;)

They will be drop shipping directly from Optoma to me by end of January...I am giddy with excitement. The three year warranty, "Zero Dead Pixel" policy, and 5000:1 non-AI contrast make this a FP king of the HD panel world. Time to start saving for Xbox 360, PS3, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray...I take that back, I would need a home equity loan for Blu-Ray :(

heh...if you have a PS3 you get Blu-Ray...

Let us know how it looks. :)

You got me on that one...but no self respecting AV enthusiast would live long with PS3 for their movies much as I would never have considered my X-box (or PS2) as my stand alone DVD player. Since I will likely talk my wife into XBOX 360 for Halo 3 alone (we love our co-op games...and this one is the best)...honestly PS3 will be out. I will be more likely to plug-n-play an HD-DVD player to the 360 to get some quick satisfaction. Honestly, with the capability to make hybrid disks out of the gate...we likely will see HD-DVD flood the market with content while Blu-Ray becomes something only "high-end".

(...)and 5000:1 non-AI contrast make this a FP king of the HD panel world.(...)The Optoma press realease clearly states "5,000:1 in ImageAI™ mode".
10,000:1 would be nicer...

I am getting one from Projector People.(...)The three year warrantyAre you getting extra one year from Projector People? Their web page states 2-year warranty.

Wow! To finally see a 720 PJ, 5K:1, Dual Digital Inputs, all for $2K. Seems like a watershed moment, no? Not even an "Add to Cart" to see price, or "Call to get price", just listed right there on the page. Again Wow!

I am getting one from Projector People. Yes, at the street price of press releases ;)



Wow - I'm jealous! Can't wait to see reviews/impressions start rolling in.

Unless the Infocus is radically different, I think this will put real pricing pressure on the IN76.
Did Projector People speculate on a prospective date for pre-orders to ship?

I myself prefer longer throws (I like the PJ behind me...old school I guess) and also like larger offsets (yes, I have a high ceiling).

Lately I've become disappointed with direction that many of the later HT Pj's have been going....shorter throws with little or NO offset.

I thought that eventually PJ’s will be at eye level in front of me!

For now my PJ hangs directly above my head with a very long extension from ceiling...only 6'4" above the floor.

I don't allow basketball players in my HT.

Argh.

Ok, I understand the needs of many w/low ceilings...so you would think Optoma could borrow their old H79 lens shift feature off the shelf....

But for me, a longer throw and more offset puts the PJ where it should be....out of sight!

Fleaman

Just checking the offset: is it 32% or 33% of the vertical height? I've seen both mentioned in this forum.

Also, does anybody know if it will do a +/- vertical offset of 24 pixels like the Mitsubishi HC3000 (since it uses the same TI chip)?

This hasn't been reported, but it safe to assume that the image-shift feature will be available. Amazingly, the Infocus IN76 doesn't have it.

This hasn't been reported, but it safe to assume that the image-shift feature will be available. Amazingly, the Infocus IN76 doesn't have it.


I am holding the brochure in my hand. Unless they are going to make changes before shipping, there is no lens shift on the Optoma HD72...

Wow - I'm jealous! Can't wait to see reviews/impressions start rolling in.


I forsee a sticky in the future of this thread... :D

Whoopie, another DLP with no lens shift. Amazing that the LCD manufacturers can get this right but the DLP manufacurers cannot. Let me guess, this is still a 4x color wheel too?

I am holding the brochure in my hand. Unless they are going to make changes before shipping, there is no lens shift on the Optoma HD72...I just looked at PDF of the H31 brochure and sure enough the digital image shift is mentioned. If the H72 doesn't have it, this is a really BAD decision; especially with the extra 48 rows of pixels. Or maybe the feature is just missing from the brochure?

I am holding the brochure in my hand. Unless they are going to make changes before shipping, there is no lens shift on the Optoma HD72...

Can you verify the offset amount for me?

or for that matter, does anybody know of an online brochure yet?

I just looked at PDF of the H31 brochure and sure enough the digital image shift is mentioned. If the H72 doesn't have it, this is a really BAD decision; especially with the extra 48 rows of pixels. Or maybe the feature is just missing from the brochure?

The H31 doesn't have real full image shift, it can only shift a image Within the 16:9 box.

Useful for shifting a 2:35 movie to the top or bottom of the 16:9 box. But yes, it is a form of digital image shift. But you can not at all shift the full 16:9 box around.

But, yeah, the H31 image shift feature (within the 16:9 frame) is really useful (but not for mounting flexibilities), and I would hope the H72 would have at least that feature.

Fleaman

Can you verify the offset amount for me?

or for that matter, does anybody know of an online brochure yet?


Here are scans of the front and back.

If I'm violating any copyright, I will pull these...

Front
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/7200/hd72brochurefront0ay.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hd72brochurefront0ay.jpg)

Back
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/3282/hd72brochureback9wz.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hd72brochureback9wz.jpg)

Ok, how do you guys think the H72 compares to the H78DC3?

Yeah, I know this is a specs game now (and sorry if I maybe missed the H78DC3 already mentioned in this thread, but didn't see it).

It looks like the H72 is suppose to street for quite a bit less than the H78DC3, at least a $1,000 less or more?

The H78DC3 has the Dark Chip3 as opposed to the DC2 for the H72....noticeable contrast improvement on the H78DC3?

How about the 8-segment wheel of the H78DC3...less dithering in the shadows over the H72?

Faster DC3 chip should give smoother blacks/shadows, no?

Opinions?

Fleaman

The H31 doesn't have real full image shift, it can only shift a image Within the 16:9 box.I know, I know... That's how I use it for widescreen movies to fight the dreadful image shift when zooming in.
OTOH, your explanation may help others not familiar with this feature.

It looks like the H72 is suppose to street for quite a bit less than the H78DC3, at least a $1,000 less or more?TI is responding to market demand for cheaper DMDs. They accomplished that but making them smaller, which should increase the production yield. Also, smaller chips require smaller optics (just like nearly all digital cameras), which reduces the projector's cost.

The H78DC3 has the Dark Chip3 as opposed to the DC2 for the H72....noticeable contrast improvement on the H78DC3?Any contrast improvement is welcome, but the DMD's contrast is NOT great. The eyesight responds logarithmically so at least 100% improvement is needed not 20-40%. The projector manufacturers should use an iris control. I predict, this will be the next desired feature on premium projectors to compete with the ever improving LCD projectors.
The new Hitachi PJ-TX200 has slit shutters (in front of the lamp) PLUS an iris inside of the lens (see the appropriate link on the "www.cine4home.de" web site).
The Germans (see "Update: Test Sony VPL-VW100 (Ruby)" page on their web site) calibrated Sony's Ruby projector to a near perfection and achieved a contrast ratio of 14,000:1. Unfortunately, the price is still way to high...

Would it be better to wait another year and buy a 1080p projector (H82?) with the new "cheap" 0.65" DMD?

Mike

Mike,

a few observations... not to criticize:

The Ruby costs five times the H72 or Mits 3000.
It has a $1000 replacement lamp that puts out 400 watts (think heater) and weighs a mere 42lbs.

Even with the iris the LCD units ie Z4 and 900 do not have the deep blacks of the above mentioned DLP units when actually watching a movie. Closer to DLP yes. Same or better No.

I agree that a variable iris properly executed should help any projector.

This has been discussed many times before, but for technical reasons (transmissive vs. reflective designs), lens shift is more expensive to implement on DLPs. At this point in time, the cost for panels + light path is cheaper for LCDs which is why they are able to add the lens shift and variable iris for the same cost or less than DLPs.
Doesn't change the fact that LCDs are starting with a 1000:1 contrast engine while DLPs are now starting with a 3000:1 engine without tweaks.
What you do need to look at is whether your room will even allow a proper setup with the DLPs in this price range, if it doesn't then that might just make the decision for you as to which technology you should go with.

It is reported to have Optoma's infamous 32% offset, which means that it must be mounted 32% of the screen height above or below the screen. A 106" diagonal screen is 52" tall, so the center of the lens will need to be 16.64" above the viewing surface for a ceiling mount. If you could mount the PJ tight to the ceiling, that would put the lens at approximately 5". Add the 16.64 to get 21.64" below the ceiling, and that's where you would mount your screen. You have 86" to work with. 86"-22"(21.64)=64". Now your screen is 52" high (excluding the border), so the bottom of your screen would be 64"-52" or 12" off the floor. Thats much too low.


In YOUR opinion that is much too low. My current configuration has the screen about 18" from the floor and it is just fine. It all depends on the setup in your room. Chances are with a 7'2" ceiling, he is not going to have a second row and risers, so if everything is a front row seat, there is not problem having the screen 12" off the floor. :rolleyes:

In YOUR opinion that is much too low. My current configuration has the screen about 18" from the floor and it is just fine. It all depends on the setup in your room. Chances are with a 7'2" ceiling, he is not going to have a second row and risers, so if everything is a front row seat, there is not problem having the screen 12" off the floor. :rolleyes:


It's a problem if you want to follow the generally accepted guideline that a screen should be positioned so that eyelevel for a seated viewer is 1/3 of the screen height from the bottom of the screen. A 52" high screen that starts 12" from the floor is considerably lower than the guideline, unless the seating is beanbags. Maybe not a huge problem, but not ideal either.

I have yet to see anybody explain the reasoning behind Optoma's huge offsets on PJ's that do not have vertical lens shift. If you are table mounting you can make almost any offset work by adjusting table height. If you have a high ceiling you can nearly always drop the PJ lower to accomodate a smallish offset. But low ceilings can't be made any higher, so large offsets do restrict installation options. What installation situations cannot be accomodated by a lesser offset, say 15% like Infocus tends to use?

I have yet to see anybody explain the reasoning behind Optoma's huge offsets. If you are table mounting you can make almost any offset work by adjusting the table height.

Unless the table is the coffee table in front of you. That said, I prefer Infocus' offset although perhaps Optoma's will work better for me if I use a flush mount. Perhaps they'll go with the H56 offset...

Nigel

It's a problem if you want to follow the generally accepted guideline that a screen should be positioned so that eyelevel for a seated viewer is 1/3 of the screen height from the bottom of the screen.
I think this "generally accepted rule" is something that is greatly exaggerated to large degree upon how it affects your viewing pleasure and fails to take into account the use of reclining seats.

The bottom of my 120" diagonal screen is 31" from the floor. The distance of my eyes to the floor is 39" in the upright position and when fully reclined is 30". We generally sit in the chairs at 3/4's of the fully reclined position and it has never ever been a problem for me or my family or friends. Nobody has ever complained about it being uncomfortable in the least.

Well....

My H31 is only about 6'5" above my floor.

The bottom of my screen starts 3 feet from the floor.

The H31 has a mild offset.

I don't know any pro basketball players and I placed a couch under the PJ so no one hits it, but I would prefer a PJ with larger offsets. I had an H30 before which had a higher offset (I think it was in the 30% range) and that PJ was about 5" from my ceiling, about 8' from the floor.

I much preferred that.

And, with that more extreme offset, one could walk between the PJ and Screen w/o really hitting the PJ beam....that was really cool.

Now everyone has to crouch down when passing through the path.

I can't use one of those many HT PJ's that graduated to zero offsets....people would hit the PJ when standing up in my place.

I prefer the old school way, longer throws (PJ mounted behind you and out of the way), and if not longer throws, at least more of an offset so it doesn't hang down in the middle of the room like a low flying UFO.

But the trends are opposite of my wishes, as usual.

.....where's that 8-track tape I just bought from the goodwill.... :eek:

Fleaman

Different strokes I guess. I get the point about a small offset PJ hanging too low from the ceiling -- but at least you have the option to ceiling mount it at all.

Eventually the DLP vendors will figure out how to provide vertical lens shift at a reasonable price and this will all be moot.

Here is an offset question for someone who can think more clearly than me. :)

My projector currently sits directly behind the seats about 4.5 feet above the ground (projects right over my head when seated).
The wacky part is that I project onto a wall 19' away slanted towards the viewer like this \

So, will a large offset like the Optoma lessen the keystoning or magnify it? Seems like it would lessen it...? My current 4805 has 'bearable' keystoning right now.

Mike

You should tilt the front end of the 4805 up so it matches the same degree of tilt as your wall.

I thought a 32% offset meant that the center of the PJ lens was 32% of the screen height above the center of the projected image.

If I’m reading correctly here, you guys are saying that the center of the lens will be 32% above the top (instead of the center) of the projected image. Is this correct?

Yes, the 32% offset means that the center of the lens needs to be 32% of the screen height above the top of the screen. With DLP's the reference point is the top of the image.

You may be thinking of the LCD products with lens shift where the reference point, or neutral position is the center of the screen.

I am getting one from Projector People. Yes, at the street price of press releases ;)

They will be drop shipping directly from Optoma to me by end of January...I am giddy with excitement. The three year warranty, "Zero Dead Pixel" policy, and 5000:1 non-AI contrast make this a FP king of the HD panel world. Time to start saving for Xbox 360, PS3, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray...I take that back, I would need a home equity loan for Blu-Ray :(

Do us a favor and post a scan of the mounting pattern when you get the projector (assuming it is printed in the manual).

You've got the distance, since the H72 has a moderately long throw, but this projector won't be a good match for lower ceilings.

It is reported to have Optoma's infamous 32% offset, which means that it must be mounted 32% of the screen height above or below the screen. A 106" diagonal screen is 52" tall, so the center of the lens will need to be 16.64" above the viewing surface for a ceiling mount. If you could mount the PJ tight to the ceiling, that would put the lens at approximately 5". Add the 16.64 to get 21.64" below the ceiling, and that's where you would mount your screen. You have 86" to work with. 86"-22"(21.64)=64". Now your screen is 52" high (excluding the border), so the bottom of your screen would be 64"-52" or 12" off the floor. Thats much too low.

I'm struggling with this offset configuratrion, so I cheated and plugged my measurements into your "formula". Thanks for the help;) I've been awaiting the HD72 but have fitment concerns. I have a 14'x20' dedicated theater with 8'6" ceilings. There is seating at 11' and raised seating at 17'. My fixed 4:3 screen is 2'6" from the floor with the 16:9 image starting at ~ 37.5" from the floor. If I followed your calculations correctly, the image would fall...~37.6" from the floor :) The problem is that my current projector is ceiling mounted at 18' with a 12"extension to avoid a 12" beam across the room at 10' back :( and the shorter throw of the HD72 probably won't let me mount it back far enough to avoid the beam. Maybe the slight tilting will work, but the tolerances are close!
I had new hopes with the LG AN110 but don't understand the lack of a zoom similar to AE900/Z4 to GET TO the backwall :confused: I prefer DLP but may have to get the Panny. .....just venting :D

Sorry! I have a similar problem with a soffit starting at about the 10' point in my room. Mounting below the soffit isn't an option, because in MY opinion (are you happy Uther ;)), having the screen 12" off the floor isn't an acceptable solution. And without significantly downsizing my screen, mounting in front of the soffit isn't an option either.

In many situations like mine and yours, the relatively restrictive 1.2x zoom range becomes more restrictive than the offset. Too bad you can't put the Panasonic's lens on the HD72.

Depending on what you have been using, the 900 may be a surprise. It is a match for the HD2 DLP's, but it is a notch under the better HD2+ units.

Sorry! I have a similar problem with a soffit starting at about the 10' point in my room. Mounting below the soffit isn't an option, because in MY opinion (are you happy Uther ;)), having the screen 12" off the floor isn't an acceptable solution. And without significantly downsizing my screen, mounting in front of the soffit isn't an option either.

In many situations like mine and yours, the relatively restrictive 1.2x zoom range becomes more restrictive than the offset. Too bad you can't put the Panasonic's lens on the HD72.

Depending on what you have been using, the 900 may be a surprise. It is a match for the HD2 DLP's, but it is a notch under the better HD2+ units.

Bubbawilly,
You're right! It seems that it's impossible to find the PJ with EVERYTHING you want/need! It forces you to prioritize your 'features list"..which isn't a bad thing. ;) I, too, looked at mounting in front of the beam (AN110 would be perfect!), but I also won't accept a smaller picture. All of my components are located in the back wall, so a long throw projector will keep my cables short. These two DLP's have so much that I want, but it's foolish to dwell on them if they don't fit my environment. The bottom line is today's choices are incredible! Anything I choose will upgrade my current older Infocus LP340. What a "problem" to have,huh?
Good Luck!

I'm struggling with this offset configuratrion, so I cheated and plugged my measurements into your "formula". Thanks for the help;) I've been awaiting the HD72 but have fitment concerns. I have a 14'x20' dedicated theater with 8'6" ceilings. There is seating at 11' and raised seating at 17'. My fixed 4:3 screen is 2'6" from the floor with the 16:9 image starting at ~ 37.5" from the floor. If I followed your calculations correctly, the image would fall...~37.6" from the floor :) ...


So your current 16:9 image is 37.5" off the floor....

...and you calculated that the H72 image (basically 16:9) would be the same, 37.6".

And you don't like this?

Since this is a 16:9 (essentially) projector, your 4:3 material is not going to be taller than your 16:9 material, it's going to be the same height.

Sounds like you have a 4:3 projector now, since your 16:9 image is shorter.

If you're calculations are correct, it looks like the H72 offset is perfect for you! Unless you never liked your current 16:9 image location.

Fleaman

So your current 16:9 image is 37.5" off the floor....

...and you calculated that the H72 image (basically 16:9) would be the same, 37.6".

And you don't like this?

Since this is a 16:9 (essentially) projector, your 4:3 material is not going to be taller than your 16:9 material, it's going to be the same height.

Sounds like you have a 4:3 projector now, since your 16:9 image is shorter.

If you're calculations are correct, it looks like the H72 offset is perfect for you! Unless you never liked your current 16:9 image location.

Fleaman

Fleaman,
That location IS perfect! With the lack of 4:3 native HT projectors, I was hoping to zoom out to fill the 4:3 screen on the few occasions we view 4:3. And, I thought the new chip (1280x 768) might handle 4:3 material a little better (not sure of this).
The HD72 WILL be perfect IF it will miss the beam! Those calculations are based on the PJ being FLUSH MOUNTED to the ceiling. With the shorter throw (than my LP340), the image might hit the beam since it would be closer to it. That doesn't rule out attaching it to the extended ceiling mount with a slight tilt as some are suggesting. ;) Thanks for the input!!!

Sounds like that beam has to go.....you're not going to let trivial details like the structural integrity of your house get in the way of the perfect HT setup, are you?? :)

Called P.P. today and the rep stated they would be receiving their stock the first week of Feb.

I just noticed this post, interesting 2k for a hd2.. makes you wonder when we see the first Three-Chipper under 5k? :D

As reported, the main reason for lower cost in this HD2 TI chip is the fact that it multipurposes as a computer resolution as well (1024x768). Therefore, they can get increased volume. I would not be opposed to a 1280x768 three chipper...but I say bring on a 1920X1440 one chipper. That would cover 1080i and likely the next big computer resolution step.

As reported, the main reason for lower cost in this HD2 TI chip is the fact that it multipurposes as a computer resolution as well (1024x768). Therefore, they can get increased volume. .

And maybe also because its a Darkchip2, not a DC3.

Fleaman

And maybe also because its a Darkchip2, not a DC3.

Fleaman
It's not the old Darkchip 2. It's an entirely new chip (1280x768) using the old moniker.

As reported, the main reason for lower cost in this HD2 TI chip is the fact that it multipurposes as a computer resolution as well (1024x768). Therefore, they can get increased volume. I would not be opposed to a 1280x768 three chipper...but I say bring on a 1920X1440 one chipper. That would cover 1080i and likely the next big computer resolution step.

I'd love to see this as well :)

Since this chip is aimed at lower price points, I think TI wanted to avoid getting any projector manufacturers that made DC3 projectors angry by cutting into their higher end 1 chip 720p DC3 sales by calling this new chipset DC3 as well. From reviews of the HC3000U and the first impressions of the other WXGA projectors like the IN76 and HD72, I'd say these new DC2 chipsets have a clear advantage over "old" DC2 projectors despite being cheaper.
The higher end DC3 projectors will have better optics, possibly an iris, power zoom, I think some have lens shift, but I doubt the DC3 has a hugely higher native contrast advantage.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering about since they have tagged it as a DC2 chip. I figured it was a DC2 with more pixels, but maybe it's more like a DC3, but they are avoiding calling it that for marketing reasons (as noted above).

Wonder if anyone knows anymore real details on this...

I was wondering how the H78DC3 would compare. On paper the H78DC3 should have smoother blacks/dark colors (more color wheel dark segments and higher DLP chip refresh rates of the DC3) and more shadow detail...

Fleaman

I can't wait until this projector ships in early February - I already pre-ordered one from Visual Apex! It's kind of a risk to be one of the "early adopters" on any brand new projector but for some reason I've got a hunch it's going to be the best projector under $2,000 once it arrives. Those could end up being my famous last words, though - we'll see soon enough!

Isn't it about time this thread was sticky? I think this is about the most exciting PJ for the price I've seen in a while.

STICKY PLEASE

anyone know where to download a users guide?

Am I missing something or what ?

If PJ is shipping 1st week of Feb WHERE ARE THE REVIEWS ?
Aren't dealers/distributors/etc supposed to have one in their hands right now ?

Also, can anyone comment on why would somebody want to buy Mits HC3000 instead of H72 right now ? Am I getting something for premium price that I cannot get with H72 ?

Thanks, Davie.

Sticky, please. (I thought I would chime in once more. I am really looking at getting this thing for my next projector but, I am just waiting for some solid reviews, like everyone else.)

CTRL-B or CTRL-D. The fastest way to sticky the thread. :D

STICKY STICKY STICKY!!! Except change the thread name to Optoma HD72 instead of Optoma H72!

Bump...I don't necessarily need a sticky...maybe an owners thread when it gets delivered.

This may have already been established, but I have problems comprehending deinterlacing and whatnot. Can this projector deinterlace a 1080i signal? Does it "weave" or "bob"? Thanks.

regarding de-interlacing wouldn't everyone be feeding this 720p anyways? (from HD cablebox, HTPC, 360/PS3, HD-DVD/BRD, etc. Why would you feel 1080i to a 720p PJ?

If the projector de-interlaces better than my HD cable box, I'd rather send the projector NBC's 1080i signal, for instance. Part of determining if the projector de-interlaces better than the cable box is determining if it 'weaves' or 'bobs'.

regarding de-interlacing wouldn't everyone be feeding this 720p anyways? (from HD cablebox, HTPC, 360/PS3, HD-DVD/BRD, etc. Why would you feel 1080i to a 720p PJ?

As one who is feeding my DVD to a 720p projector at 1080i on component video I will only say "you should always try them both to see which actually looks better. Trust your eyes on it".

As one who is feeding my DVD to a 720p projector at 1080i on component video I will only say "you should always try them both to see which actually looks better. Trust your eyes on it".
upscale DVD to 1080i via player then rescale again to 720p looking better is rather peculiar but also perhaps a side-product of "component". out of curiosity, what PJ are you using?

This may have already been established, but I have problems comprehending deinterlacing and whatnot. Can this projector deinterlace a 1080i signal? Does it "weave" or "bob"? Thanks.


Certainly it CAN deinterlace 1080i, the big question is HOW it does it. Previous Faroudja deinterlacers did bobbing of 1080i; I don't think we know yet if the one in the HD72 will weave or not.

I hadn't seen this posted yet so here's the link to the Optoma HD72 product information page on Optoma's website:
Optoma HD72 product page (http://www.optomausa.com/Product_detail.asp?product_id=249)

I hadn't seen this posted yet so here's the link to the Optoma HD72 product information page on Optoma's website:
Optoma HD72 product page (http://www.optomausa.com/Product_detail.asp?product_id=249)

Great find! Last I looked it wasn't on their web site.

It's not officially listed in their projector section yet. I actually had to do a search for "HD72" and it came up in the results. Cheers!

Those of you who placed a pre-order, just out of curiousity, why did you pick this projector with 0 reviews over the infocus with 0 reviews?
Don't be bashful, I'm thinking of pre-ordering myself.

Pre-order here...

I am basing my decision from:
- Similar guts of Mitsubishi (lots of reviews on that)
- Optoma history for excellent DLP machines (and quiet machines)
- $$$
- Warranty...I am dead scared of dead pixels, and Optoma came out and said "Zero Dead Pixel Gurantee"
- I have read enough of the Infocus that, although radically new...it begs to go through a test period. The Optoma HD72 almost feels more like going from a 2005 Honda to a 2006 one (more colors, more interior choices, amd slightly tweeked engine)...Infocus feels like jumping on the new Pontiac GTO...you know it will be a killer ride, but quailty of a first run design is questionable (a similar comparison would be Infocus quality versus Pontiac...both have had a bumpy history).

So, can anyone tell from the manual what the actual offset is?

Nice of Optoma to include US measurements along with metric.

So, can anyone tell from the manual what the actual offset is?

Nice of Optoma to include US measurements along with metric.

The manual shows a 6.52 degree offset angle. Using the calculator at this web page: http://www.projects.ex.ac.uk/trol/scol/calrtri.htm it appears that the HD72 has a 11.43% offset (rounded). I used a 100" throw with the 6.52 degree angle for simplicity's sake.

Edit:
My understanding of what the offset % is appears to be off. The above shows that for every 100" in throw the top the screen is 11.43" below the center of the lense. All other discussions I'm seeing on offset show the offset % as being a factor of the screen size. I'll leave it to more experienced folks to clear up my confusion. :)

The manual shows a 6.52 degree offset angle. Using the calculator at this web page: http://www.projects.ex.ac.uk/trol/scol/calrtri.htm it appears that the HD72 has a 11.43% offset (rounded). I used a 100" throw with the 6.52 degree angle for simplicity's sake.

If this is true I think you will have a lot of people jumping at this PJ. 11.43% is a far cry from the 32% that was reported earlier...us with <9' ceilings may have some hope yet. Can someone look at page 16 of the manual and explain to us non projector owners exactly what this means. If ceiling mounted, the top angle is 6.52 degrees and the bottom is 25.54. Not sure how this calculates at a throw of 14' for a 102" wide screen. I only took geometry 18 years ago. I'm pretty optomistic it will be much better than the 32% offset though.

Tz what exactly is the color wheel setup RGB/RGBW RGB/RGBG?
According to the HD72 manual it's GRBWGRB.

So, can anyone tell from the manual what the actual offset is?


The manual states the offset is H' = L * tan(6.52), where L is the distance from the pj to screen.

If you want offset relative to screen height then it's relative to the zoom, since the right triangle with the hypotenuse from the pj lens to the top of the screen is the same size whether you have full zoom or not.

Using the manual formula for H' and projector central's HD72 screen calculator, I get these numbers for a 10' throw:

Offset= 120" * tan(6.52) = 13.7"

At a 10' throw min zoom results in a 36" high screen, max zoom results in a 43" high screen.

13.7"/36" = 38% of screen height offset for min zoom

13.7"/43" = 32% of screen height offset for max zoom

SGinAZ is correct that it has an 11.4% offset *relative to throw distance*. As he mentions this means for every 100" from screen to pj, offset increases by 11.4".

The H31 has a 7.42 throw angle as opposed to the 6.52 of the HD72.

Oddly, with the H' and H listed for the H31 I get 37% offset and HD72 is 36% offset. The offset is less than the H31 but there's something odd about my numbers.

Nigel

At a 10' throw min zoom results in a 36" high screen, max zoom results in a 43" high screen.

13.7"/36" = 38% of screen height offset for min zoom

13.7"/43" = 32% of screen height offset for max zoom

SGinAZ is correct that it has an 11.4% offset *relative to throw distance*. As he mentions this means for every 100" from screen to pj, offset increases by 11.4".
Gimp - thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. If Optoma's plan was to confuse the living hell out of most people with that chart, I think they succeeded. I've never seen offset stated as a function of throw distance before.

The bad news is that the offset appears even worse than originally thought. If you use max zoom, you get 32%, but if you use the more desirable (at least for many people) min zoom you get 38%! Ouch.

While you're at it, do you have any explanation as to why they would possibly define H (the height of the screen) as the width (W0) of the 15:9 image times .86!? By my calcs, that would make the height of an 80" wide screen almost 69" when in fact it would be 48". The multiplier should be .6 ...

The manual states the offset is H' = L * tan(6.52), where L is the distance from the pj to screen.

If you want offset relative to screen height then it's relative to the zoom, since the right triangle with the hypotenuse from the pj lens to the top of the screen is the same size whether you have full zoom or not.

Using the manual formula for H' and projector central's HD72 screen calculator, I get these numbers for a 10' throw:

Offset= 120" * tan(6.52) = 13.7"

At a 10' throw min zoom results in a 36" high screen, max zoom results in a 43" high screen.

13.7"/36" = 38% of screen height offset for min zoom

13.7"/43" = 32% of screen height offset for max zoom

SGinAZ is correct that it has an 11.4% offset *relative to throw distance*. As he mentions this means for every 100" from screen to pj, offset increases by 11.4".

I think that we're geting closer to the offset relative to screen height, but I'm still puzzled. Since when would an offset change within the zoom range. Once the projector distance to the screen is anchored, wouldn't either the top or bottom of the image be fixed regardless of zoom?

nigel_ht, do you have the H31? If so, does the top of the image (or bottom if table mounted) move within the zoom range, or does it remain anchored with the projector's distance to your screen?

I think all projectors with an offset have the image move with zoom. The only way this wouldn't happen would be if the center of the screen is lined up with the center of the lens, such as on some of the LCD projectors with lens shift.

I think all projectors with an offset have the image move with zoom. The only way this wouldn't happen would be if the center of the screen is lined up with the center of the lens, such as on some of the LCD projectors with lens shift.

My Panasonic AE300 had a slight offset. Panasonic supplied a formula for determining its offset that was based on screen width (H1 = SW/32). The formula could have been stated relative to screen height since it is fixed relative to width, but Panasonic chose to use width. Neither the distance to the projector, not the zoom were factors.

When is this PJ (H72) due to be shipped?

Bubbawilly

So the offset for a 92" diag screen (80" width) would be 80/32 = 2.5 inches? (For AE900)

The image would be 2.5 " down from the top edge with no offset and would be independent of the zoom position and distance to the screen.

what scaler does this projector use? specs do not mention faroudja

Since when would an offset change within the zoom range. Once the projector distance to the screen is anchored, wouldn't either the top or bottom of the image be fixed regardless of zoom?

You answered it there. At a particular throw, I'd also expect the top or bottom of the image to be fixed regardless of zoom. But it's fixed at a specific number of inches, at least as documented for the H72. As the screen height goes lower or higher this changes the percentage of that number of inches relative to screen height.

Now this is all according to the H' formula in the manual. It could of course be completely wrong as A) it's the worst pj positioning graphic I've ever seen and B) it seems to be wrong in other places.

In comparison the Infocus H76 (same DMD, similar quoted offset percentage) has an offset percentage fixed relative to screen size, like your AE300.


JeffKB,

I haven't the foggiest idea on how 0.86 makes sense. I can only guess that they cut and pasted the line with the 0.8 above and failed to delete the '8' or somehow made a typo. Dividing the numbers out in their table results in 0.6 instead of 0.86.

Guitarman, where are you???? We need some answers about offset and deinterlacer!

Bubbawilly

So the offset for a 92" diag screen (80" width) would be 80/32 = 2.5 inches? (For AE900)

The image would be 2.5 " down from the top edge with no offset and would be independent of the zoom position and distance to the screen.

That formula applied to the AE300, which had a fixed lens and offset, and your calculations are correct. Using your example, the 2.5" offset was independent of the throw and zoom. It was dependent on screen size, which is the only way I've ever seen offset determined. This deal in the Optoma manual is just plain wacky.

The AE900 has zero offset, where the centerline of the lens intersects with the center of the screen. The lens shift comes into play for mounting at positions other than screen center.

You answered it there. At a particular throw, I'd also expect the top or bottom of the image to be fixed regardless of zoom. But it's fixed at a specific number of inches, at least as documented for the H72. As the screen height goes lower or higher this changes the percentage of that number of inches relative to screen height.

Now this is all according to the H' formula in the manual. It could of course be completely wrong as A) it's the worse pj positioning graphic I've ever seen and B) it seems to be wrong in other places.

In comparison the Infocus H76 (same DMD, similar quoted offset percentage) has an offset percentage fixed relative to screen size, like your AE300.


JeffKB,

I haven't the foggiest idea on how 0.86 makes sense. I can only guess that there cut and pastes the line with the 0.8 above and failed to delete the '8' or somehow else made a typo. Dividing the numbers out in their table results in 0.6 instead of 0.86.

I got lost when I saw the offset formula relative to the projection distance. Methinks someone didn't proofread the manual. It was obviously rushed to print, as the US equivalent measurements aren't even included. Maybe we're just a small market for Optoma. ;)