Anyone else having problem of screen freezing just for second then fast jump to regular viewing. Mine really does it on the shopping channels. Very annoying.
Also one of my 600 unit has starting rebooting since last upgade.
Had one 600 returned and sent a refurb one which seems to run cooler.
The freezing problem is very short but this too has happened since the June-July update.

W.C.

Thanks for any help!

Yes, that's when mine started to reboot. Also, I went directly to retention and told them that my wife and I were fed up with bad recievers (6 in 1.5 years) and I was not buying another reciever, nor extending my contract.

The rep was very nice and sent out an H20-100 and did not extend my contract nor charge me a cent...so he says.

First impressions of the -100:

-very fast guide
-nice PQ
-good OTA but very much acceptable...slightly less than the -600 POC..(I told you I did not like LG and was leary about them when i first bought the H20-600, I don't care about they built units for Sony in the past, etc...LG products are junk).
-RCA build...yes, I think RCA builds the best D*TV boxes. I still have 2-original RCA boxes that work flawlessly...Over 6 years. My 2-TS360's are dead and the 2-H20-600's from LG are dead...neith have lasted more than 1 year.
-Runs MUCH cooler.
-Quickly changes resolutions from 1080I to 480I and back.

I am happier with this box.... However, lets see if it holds up well...longer than 1 year that is.

-RCA build...yes, I think RCA builds the best D*TV boxes.
RCA made the first million D* receivers and have made more D* receivers than all other mfgs combined. That being said, I've had both models of H20s from RCA and LG and neither one has been reliable. Last one of mine that died was an RCA. It just kinda went beserk.

I'm back to a -600 LG now and my patience is wearing thin with D*.

RCA made the first million D* receivers and have made more D* receivers than all other mfgs combined. That being said, I've had both models of H20s from RCA and LG and neither one has been reliable. Last one of mine that died was an RCA. It just kinda went beserk.

I'm back to a -600 LG now and my patience is wearing thin with D*.

Is this a D*TV problem only, or are all HD boxes problematic whether it be cable, Dish, etc?

Same here...I do not know how much longer my wife and I will put up with faulty boxes that fail with in 6-months. like I said, 6-boxes in a 1.5 year period is ridiculous. I had my DTC-100 for 3.5 problem free years(Still running great as an OTA only reciever down in the basement)...after I switched to the "new recievers", it's been problem after problem.

I have no patience left now. This is the last chance for D*TV. If this box goes bad, I'm out of here!!!

Is this a D*TV problem only, or are all HD boxes problematic whether it be cable, Dish, etc?

From posts on this and other forums, the problem is with STBs from all providers.

If my existing box fails, I think my next "provider" will be OTA.

From posts on this and other forums, the problem is with STBs from all providers.

If my existing box fails, I think my next "provider" will be OTA.

Hey, if it's free.....I'M ALL OVER THAT!!!!

Now I could really kick myself in the butt for getting a Hitachi HDTV RP-CRT w/out the OTA HD antenna input.(At the time I could not justify another $350 for the tuner). Now I would need to buy a stand alone STB or a DVD player with HD Reciever/tuner....I forget who made it, but I'm sure the new HD-DVD recorders will have them.

The new HD Tivo would work, if you have HDMI input.

What is the latest firmware version for the H20-600?

And how do I download it?

Thanks. :)

It is downloaded automatically via satellite. No phone line connection is necessary.

Hi,

I recently got the Sharp 37D90U TV and I am anxious to upgrade to High Def. However, I have been reading about the new DirecTV HD receivers, and I am confused and worried. First, I am not happy that TiVo is not used for their DVRs any more. Also, I don't like the deal about only leasing the boxes and possibly having to pay early cancellation fees. Another concern is the inability to display true 1080p. I know that my TV isn't big enough to notice it unless viewed up close, but I plan on getting a bigger TV at some point. Lastly, I recently read about how they are downgrading their HD, so that it isn't really true High Def.

Anyway, I am now considering going to Comcast if the High Def is going to be better. Also, I can wait until TiVo series 3 comes out and use with the cable. Basically, I am looking for opinions about the wisdom of going this route, or is there a DirecTV option that addresses my fears? I would prefer that since I get Sunday Ticket and would have to give that up if I switch. Tks.

[Jeez, the misinformation that's out there is mind boggling....]

OTA, Cable or Satellite TV do not broadcast ANY programming in 1080p.

D* doesn't do Tivo any more. If you want Tivo, go buy one or rent one from a provider that offers them.

Tivos and DVRS are OFF TOPIC in this tread anyway. This thread is for discussion of the D* H20 receiver, which is NOT a DVR or Tivo.

Excuse the F outta me. I posted in this thread because I have been researching the H20 250. I was planning on getting one, but then ran into the concerns that I mentioned. Yes, I should have taken them to another thread. I just forgot what thread I was in. And about D* not using TiVo anymore, I said that in my post.

A simple "wrong thread" would have sufficed, no?

You're eff'n excused.

You're eff'n excused.
Wow are we lucky to have you here to keep everything running smooth!
Since there are no mods & your always right, you keep all these threads safe! :rolleyes:
I bet your s#it doesnt stink either!

However, I have been reading about the new DirecTV HD receivers, and I am confused and worried.

Understood. However, even though I complain about Directv, the PQ, price,etc can not be challenged by cable. The more research I do, the more I realize that most HD boxes are problematic.

First, I am not happy that TiVo is not used for their DVRs any more. Also, I don't like the deal about only leasing the boxes and possibly having to pay early cancellation fees. Another concern is the inability to display true 1080p.

There is NO transmission or 1080P from ANY PROVIDER. I don't see that happening anytime soon, either. Alot of these TV stations have invested alot of $$ in 1080I/720P equipment and I can't see them spending more $$$ for 1080P equipment which is ALOT more money and really eats up bandwidth.

Direct TV has the HR10-250 DVR HD reciever.

I know that my TV isn't big enough to notice it unless viewed up close, but I plan on getting a bigger TV at some point. Lastly, I recently read about how they are downgrading their HD, so that it isn't really true High Def..

I don't quite understand what you mean, but let's see if I can answer this correctly. The HD stations are 1080I or 720P...the box will output both or you can set the box to output 480I/P.....But all HD can be shown in it's native form.


Anyway, I am now considering going to Comcast if the High Def is going to be better. Also, I can wait until TiVo series 3 comes out and use with the cable. Basically, I am looking for opinions about the wisdom of going this route, or is there a DirecTV option that addresses my fears? I would prefer that since I get Sunday Ticket and would have to give that up if I switch. Tks.

Depending on your area or location, I'd take a hard look at Directv. Cable in my area is lousy on the SD stations and about the same on HD, but $34 per month more $$$. Also, the cable boxes I've seen do not shange from stretch to native 16:9 when going from SD to HD....well, I could not find a way to do this. Check the DVR section for Directv because I do not know enough about it. Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions.

Just got off the phone with retention and have my new HR20 being delivered on the 26th. Cost will be $99 but they will credit me back the money on my bill. She also through in super fan for free. This is a swap out since I just bought the hr10-250 a week ago from bestbuy. :)

How do you get to retention. I'm still having poor recption of HD Locals from D*? I have the HD20-100.

How do you get to retention. I'm still having poor recption of HD Locals from D*? I have the HD20-100.
Retention is1- 800- 824-9081

I need some help guys...

I have a JVC RPTV that displays 1080p. It de-interlaces 1080i signals.
I have it hooked up to an H20.

I had the H20 set to native and every time I changed channels, there was this long delay and black screen and the TV input status would flash on the screen.

To fix the issue, I turned native off. I also told the H20 my TV could only display 1080i.

But does this mean that for SD and non-1080i HD broadcasts, I am relying on the H20 to upconvert these signals?

This does not sound good to me.

Is this correct and is there a way around this?

I need some help guys...

I have a JVC RPTV that displays 1080p. It de-interlaces 1080i signals.
I have it hooked up to an H20.

I had the H20 set to native and every time I changed channels, there was this long delay and black screen and the TV input status would flash on the screen.

To fix the issue, I turned native off. I also told the H20 my TV could only display 1080i.

But does this mean that for SD and non-1080i HD broadcasts, I am relying on the H20 to upconvert these signals?

This does not sound good to me.

Is this correct and is there a way around this?
Yes, the H20 is doing the upconversion. The question is would you rather have the delay as the box and tv switch resolutions or have the H20 do the upconvert. You say that 'This doesn't sound good to me', but you should ask does it look good. Can you tell the difference and is the difference enough that you would rather have the delay?

Yes, the H20 is doing the upconversion. The question is would you rather have the delay as the box and tv switch resolutions or have the H20 do the upconvert. You say that 'This doesn't sound good to me', but you should ask does it look good. Can you tell the difference and is the difference enough that you would rather have the delay?

Can I ask a counter question? If I had turned native off, but under TV type, left the boxes checked for 4801, 480p, and 720p, what does the H20 do at that point? Right now, I have turned native off and only checked the 1080i box.

Can I ask a counter question? If I had turned native off, but under TV type, left the boxes checked for 4801, 480p, and 720p, what does the H20 do at that point? Right now, I have turned native off and only checked the 1080i box.


I have mine set to 480I/1080I native only. Even though it takes about 1.5 seconds to switch from 480I to 1080I on the box, it's not a problem because my Hitachi is set for 540P/1080I and the conversion on the TV's end is instant, but the box is 1.5 seconds. It's the H20-100 which is alot faster and better in all aspects compared to my previous H20-600.

I would suggest native off and 1080I output by the box and keep the TV set to 1080P, this way the resolution will never be changed on the TV and the box, there knocking out that pause or delay.

I prefer that all 480I material be converted to 540P...it just looks better than 480I at 1080I...no flicker or pixelating at all. So I suggest setting the box at 1080I and your TV to 1080P and see how it looks on SD/HD...It should be fine.

Hi Everyone,

What is the general consensus? If you had to keep one, which would it be?

I had dtv send me a replacement for my H20-600, the box that came was H20-100. I am having the HDMI issue with the 100...should i keep the 100 until they release the update to fix the HDMI problem?

I also notice that the h20-100 had a later build date. Does that mean it is a "newer" receiver with better features?

thanks!!!

Hi Everyone,

What is the general consensus? If you had to keep one, which would it be?

I had dtv send me a replacement for my H20-600, the box that came was H20-100. I am having the HDMI issue with the 100...should i keep the 100 until they release the update to fix the HDMI problem?

I also notice that the h20-100 had a later build date. Does that mean it is a "newer" receiver with better features?

thanks!!!
..a toss up and a matter of luck..but keep the model 100. ..it runs cooler. Use component; just as good as HDMI, anyway. ..check it out.

I’m a first timer, so I hope I don’t offend anybody but…
I have a -600 [with 5lnb dish] that decided to stop receiving OTA channels. D* sent out a -100 [new] & its OTA receiver isn’t as sensitive as the -600. It just shows a blank screen [when searching for a signal]. When I activated it they informed me it was now a leased unit [-600 was an owned unit]. With some pressure, they made a “one time deal” to change it to an owned unit.
The -100 just doesn’t work for OTA reception in my area so I asked for another -600. D” sent out a refurbished -600 which was almost DOA. It would power up but not much else. Calls to D* didn’t do anything. I looked into the self test & found that it could only pass on the 99 sat [one network] & failed OTA along with every other sat. I was under the assumption that “refurbished” meant someone actually tested the box, foolish me [old school]. I’m tired of being their guinea pig for HD [four years now] & asked about the -700 [since a D* tech said that they had been beta tested & are supposed to work].
Does anybody [else] have a problem with paying $299 for something that you don’t own & only has a 90 warranty? When pressing tech support [there’s an oxymoron] inevitably they say to wait for the sw upgrade that may fix it [or cause other bugs – there words] which will get you out of warranty.
D* current policy is for us to pay [with a store markup] for something that we don’t own & needs to be returned to D*. A call to the customer retention [supervisor] brought the price down to $150 [their cost]. The unit is worthless without activation [by D*] so I still can’t see paying anything for it. It just seems [to me] that D* is expecting us to pay their costs [in their hardware] which has proven bogus [so far]. At least the Sony SAT-200 [$800] I bought works without D* activation & Sony stood behind it [replaced it with SAT-300 18 months later].
Am I missing something here or are we just sheep to be sheared [over & over]?

Geoff

/rant

I ordered an H20 to replace my ts160. http://www.patersontech.com/ figured a way to get my ReplayTV to talk to the H20 serial-to-USB and map the OTA subchannels properly....much better/faster than the IR blaster I've used with the Samsung.
I'm stuck on the Replay....lifetime service ($250 IIRC) paid years ago so no monthly fees and working automatic commercial advance but it's a hassle to use with D* HD receivers.

Anywhoo....D* did not send me a new card with the H20, so I just swapped the one out of my Ts160 in. Bad idea....the H20 scrambled it and D* couldn't reset it. Luckily I had another card from an older unit they could marry to my ts160 until I get a new card for the H20.

As everyone else here has stated, the -600 is damn hot. I'd like to know how much power the thing is drawing. That much juice 24/7/365 probably costs at least a few bucks a year.

The H20 does get the OTAs at least as well as my Samsung did. I'll report back when the serial/usb cable arrives...they are back ordered until 9/29.

I’m a first timer, so I hope I don’t offend anybody but…
I have a -600 [with 5lnb dish] that decided to stop receiving OTA channels. D* sent out a -100 [new] & its OTA receiver isn’t as sensitive as the -600. It just shows a blank screen [when searching for a signal]. When I activated it they informed me it was now a leased unit [-600 was an owned unit]. With some pressure, they made a “one time deal” to change it to an owned unit.
The -100 just doesn’t work for OTA reception in my area so I asked for another -600. D” sent out a refurbished -600 which was almost DOA. It would power up but not much else. Calls to D* didn’t do anything. I looked into the self test & found that it could only pass on the 99 sat [one network] & failed OTA along with every other sat. I was under the assumption that “refurbished” meant someone actually tested the box, foolish me [old school]. I’m tired of being their guinea pig for HD [four years now] & asked about the -700 [since a D* tech said that they had been beta tested & are supposed to work].
Does anybody [else] have a problem with paying $299 for something that you don’t own & only has a 90 warranty? When pressing tech support [there’s an oxymoron] inevitably they say to wait for the sw upgrade that may fix it [or cause other bugs – there words] which will get you out of warranty.
D* current policy is for us to pay [with a store markup] for something that we don’t own & needs to be returned to D*. A call to the customer retention [supervisor] brought the price down to $150 [their cost]. The unit is worthless without activation [by D*] so I still can’t see paying anything for it. It just seems [to me] that D* is expecting us to pay their costs [in their hardware] which has proven bogus [so far]. At least the Sony SAT-200 [$800] I bought works without D* activation & Sony stood behind it [replaced it with SAT-300 18 months later].
Am I missing something here or are we just sheep to be sheared [over & over]?

Geoff

New here as well...

I ordered HDTV upgrade and received an H20 via installation from D*. After installing the unit the picture (on most, but not all channels) would pixelate and/or blank the screen and the "Searching for Satellite Signal" message would come up. A quick check of signal strength revealed no lack of signal quality, yet the problem continued. After 15 (!!! no joke) service calls (some of which were, predictably, no shows) they installed a 5 LNB dish and re-wired, which lessened the frequency but did not correct the problem completely.

For the record, there are no obstructions to the dish. My entire set up is plugged into a Monster power management device with power conditioning (MKII).

The problem continued, so I began my own investigation and determined that power fluctuation was the problem. I noticed that when the washing machine changes cycles the picture will pixelate. Running more than one air conditioner will knock out some of the channels completely.

They replaced my box when it would go blank and not even re-boot, yet the same problem exisits.

Does anyone else have any experience with this. D* is absolutely no help and I am looking forward to replacing them with Verizon when available, but that may not be for years. Cablevision is the local provider so cable is not an option...

Any help is appreciated...

Just spoke with DTV Level II support. The H20-100 has not been manufactured for months. The warehouse is all out of them, Replacement units will be a 600 or 600 refurb. He said that the refurbished unit is the better option
New units should be out early next year.
Also said that new software should be sent late Sept or early Oct

I hope you have better luck than I did with a "refurbished" unit. One would think it would be better since it should have been tested, but (see previous posting). My power comes from a sub-station 20 miles away & has all sorts of variations in/on it, but I don't see your problems. Question, How or what does it work/look without your power conditioner? Sometimes what is to help solve a problem doesn't (like my APC UPS).

How do I get the "interactive" features? I have an H20-600. Is it possible? I have no phone line. Is a phone line required for updates? I thought they came through the satellite.

Also, I'm planning to replace this unit with a HD-DVR. What's the concensus regarding the current HD-DVR? Is there a new model coming soon?

SRHookEm
The newest HD-DVR is their HR20-700 with mpeg 4. It too is waiting for a software up-grade

How do I get the "interactive" features? I have an H20-600.

DirecTV has STILL not enabled the interactive feature on the H20's. 10 months since release and we're still waiting. When I called D* last month their notes said that it would be available this summer, fall starts Saturday.

I hope you have better luck than I did with a "refurbished" unit. One would think it would be better since it should have been tested, but (see previous posting). My power comes from a sub-station 20 miles away & has all sorts of variations in/on it, but I don't see your problems. Question, How or what does it work/look without your power conditioner? Sometimes what is to help solve a problem doesn't (like my APC UPS).


I'm embarrassed to admit I've never tried it! I'll do so and let you know if there's any difference.

SRHookEm
The newest HD-DVR is their HR20-700 with mpeg 4. It too is waiting for a software up-grade

Is this the unit I will get if ordered now? What is expected with the software upgrade?

I just spoke to retention. They are sending me an HD-DVR, waiving the $299 and giving me 6 months credit for HD programming at 9.99 per month. Sweet! I don't know why everyone complains about DTV's customer service. I have always found them willing to do whatever I ask. We've been customers since their first month.

I already have the 5LNB dish and the dual wires are run to the area that has the current H20 that will be replaced. It should be a quick install trip. I wish they would just FEDEX the new unit to me. Oh well.... The service contractors have usually sucked. We'll see.

The rep told me that the HD-DVR's have the interactive features enabled. Is this not correct?

Is this the unit I will get if ordered now? What is expected with the software upgrade?
Don't know about the interactive part.
In my call they couldn't tell if I would get a H10-250 ( not meg 4) or the HR20-700.aiving the $299 and giving me 6 months credit for HD programming at 9.99 per month. Sweet! I don't know why everyone complains about DTV's customer service. I have always found them willing to do whatever I ask. We've been customers since their first month.

I already have the 5LNB dish and the dual wires are run to the area that has the current H20 that will be replaced. It should be a quick install trip. I wish they would just FEDEX the new unit to me. Oh well.... The service contractors have usually sucked. We'll see.

The rep told me that the HD-DVR's have the interactive features enabled. Is this not correct?

I wish my contact with D* was the same as yours. D* has been the most frustrating experience with any technology in my 30 years as a tech.

I'm still waiting for a call back from "retention" to give me exactly what they gave you.

There is a problem with the HDMI that the "new" software is to address, but the (nice) person did explain that the up-grade may have (cause) other bugs. This is very common with the software engineers I've worked with.

Don't know about interactive.
In my call they couldn't tell me if I would get a H10-250 (no meg 4) or if it would be the HR20-700, since they're not in control of it.

I connect via HDMI. Will the HR20-700 HD-DVR work now or is this for a future fix?

Tell D* that the cable company in your area will outfit your home with HD DVR's at no charge. They hate that!

On the topic of HDMI, does anyone know if the new version of HDMI is actually out on any products yet? I'm about to purchase equipment for a new theater and I would like to get the latest.

Is it HDMI 1.3? I can't recall.....

I connect via HDMI. Will it work now or is this for a future fix?

Tell D* that the cable company in your area will outfit your home with HD DVR's at no charge. They hate that!

My cable does, and I did.
There is a sound problem with the HDMI, but I use the optical out which (they say) works. I'm still waiting...

Like my "handle" I'm old school & convert from HDMI to DVI.

Please read my first post #3775.
You might find it's not "free" when you go to activate the recorder.
They seem to "omit" the charges until the tech comes out ($70) & then "explain" how you don't own what you just bought.

On the topic of HDMI, does anyone know if the new version of HDMI is actually out on any products yet? I'm about to purchase equipment for a new theater and I would like to get the latest.

Is it HDMI 1.3? I can't recall.....
There is nothing with HDMI 1.3 out yet, the Playstation 3 will be the first product released with HDMI 1.3 & that won't be till November..

I'm waiting till recievers come out with it to upgrade myself.

Longtime lurker, infrequent poster

May I ask you guys for an opinion?

D* has agreed to bone up a free H20 and the required dish to replace my current Samsung TS-360.

After reading a few posts in this thread in regard to issues, I'm wondering if I should have just left well enough alone.

From what I can gather, and what was told, I will be getting better 1080 performance, more interactive features on Sunday ticket, my local channels in HD, and comcast sports net in HD.

I suppose I could just swap back if I had to, but will the Samsung work with the new dish?

Would you switch if given the option?

TIA

Longtime lurker, infrequent poster

May I ask you guys for an opinion?

D* has agreed to bone up a free H20 and the required dish to replace my current Samsung TS-360.

After reading a few posts in this thread in regard to issues, I'm wondering if I should have just left well enough alone.

From what I can gather, and what was told, I will be getting better 1080 performance, more interactive features on Sunday ticket, my local channels in HD, and comcast sports net in HD.

I suppose I could just swap back if I had to, but will the Samsung work with the new dish?

Would you switch if given the option?

TIA

I hate to sound like a broken record (old school) but please read my posting #3775.
D* has changed from "owned" to "leased" with a 90 day warrantee & a two year commitment.
I haven't found a "fully" working HD 20 unit (yet) & all are waiting for the next sw upgrade.
If you don't subscribe (or quit) the units stop receiving OTA programing, so it becomes a "doorstop" then.
As to the 5 LNB dish - yes it works with my (old) Sony SAT-300, but you "only have" 7 days to de-activate your new receiver & "commitment".

I just read back in the thread and after seeing the post about getting a free HR20 - 700 I called "retention" and got hem them to pony up one of those instead of the free H20.

Their customer service is sometimes frustrating as you have to get transfered to get hold of the right person, but it has been my experience that if you ask they will usually give you whatever you want.

After reading today's posting, I thought I would give D* another chance & called retention (CSR) since their Supervisor hadn't returned my call about getting an HR20-700 (from Sat. call).
I had the same "dead end". The supervisor hadn't posted anything on my account about my call, the rep lowered their price to $99.
I explained what has been posted (today) about "free" -700s & asked "How could this be"? Their answer was: "If this has happened, then the rep violated company policy".
Now I'm to wait 48 hours for a supervisor to call me back.

The posts "that are getting them for free" haven't received them (yet) and I have to wonder what the story will be AFTER INSTALLATION!
D* is very good at "omitting" the full info (until it's time to activate).

I look forward to hearing from those that are getting a free -700.

Next week my cable company is installing an HD recorder (for free) with a 30 day money back guarantee!

How about keeping this thread to about the H20 and not the HR20 and it's deals. Thanks

How about keeping this thread to about the H20 and not the HR20 and it's deals. Thanks
Amen.

How about keeping this thread to about the H20 and not the HR20 and it's deals. Thanks

The HD20 & HR20 seem to be melting into the same people's interest.
I thought this was a forum for free speech about D* HD -20 hardware.
If I'm in the wrong place excuse me.

The HD20 & HR20 seem to be melting into the same people's interest.
I thought this was a forum for free speech about D* HD -20 hardware.
If I'm in the wrong place excuse me.

Since they are two different products with their own seperate problems IMHO it belongs in their proper threads. Since the HR20 is a HDTV Recorder, in that sub forum there is a thread for that discussion, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704067

Not against free speech, just put it in it's proper section please.

Since they are two different products with their own seperate problems IMHO it belongs in their proper threads. Since the HR20 is a HDTV Recorder, in that sub forum there is a thread for that discussion, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704067

Not against free speech, just put it in it's proper section please.

Thank you for the link.

BTW I don't think anybody really cares about your wife [that you keep posting here] either.

Longtime lurker, infrequent poster

May I ask you guys for an opinion?

D* has agreed to bone up a free H20 and the required dish to replace my current Samsung TS-360.

After reading a few posts in this thread in regard to issues, I'm wondering if I should have just left well enough alone.

From what I can gather, and what was told, I will be getting better 1080 performance, more interactive features on Sunday ticket, my local channels in HD, and comcast sports net in HD.

I suppose I could just swap back if I had to, but will the Samsung work with the new dish?

Would you switch if given the option?
All HD and most SD receivers will work with the new 5LNB dish. IOW, the 5LNB dish is backward compatible with older equipment.

The H20 experience for me has been disappointing, at best. I have had 3 defective H20s and the current one doesn't work quite right. And you'll *hate* the user interface/guide, compared to the 360.

If you're satisfied with your 360 and get good OTA with it, I'm not sure I would change receivers. But you can always reactivate the 360 later if you can't live with the H20.

Amen.

I'm sorry to waste Satmeister's & RAD's "space", but for those looking for information on what DTV has for HD hardware I still think this is the correct place for what has been posted.

I have read the postings [thanks to the link] and "our" comments aren't what's being posted there.

I'm not trying to "hijack" this forum, and agree that questions about noisy hard drives, double buffers, TIVO, & 30 sec jumps don't belong in this forum.

My interest is to exchange useful information to anyone interested in DTV's HD hardware & related "deals", since D* is a major source of miss-information to [us] the consumer.

Does anyone know what the latest software version is for the H20-600 (LG mfg)?
Mine shows: 0F14

Thanks.

Does anyone know what the latest software version is for the H20-600 (LG mfg)?
Mine shows: 0F14

Thanks.
That is the current level of software.

My interest is to exchange useful information to anyone interested in DTV's HD hardware & related "deals", since D* is a major source of miss-information to [us] the consumer.

If you're looking to see what deals and other items of interest on HR20 purchases I would like to recommend that you visit this forums sister site in section http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=113 since the post that I commented on was strictly about HR20, not H20 receivers.

If you're looking to see what deals and other items of interest on HR20 purchases I would like to recommend that you visit this forums sister site in section http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=113 since the post that I commented on was strictly about HR20, not H20 receivers.

I appreciate information about D* hardware & their deals, but as I’ve posted, I’m not looking to buy DTV’s hardware anymore.
Most of the day’s posting were about what was better to get, an HD20 or the HR20 & D* customer service.
The cost of free speech is tolerance for other’s opinions.
I would ask you please to broaden your [not so humble] opinion of how you think this forum should be directed.
Does “AVS Special Member” make you a “hall monitor”?
I don’t want to turn this into a Dr. Phil show, so let’s get back on “topic” & help those that want it.

"DirecTV H20 Official Thread"
New readers come to this thread expecting to find information on the H20 receiver. For that reason alone, I think discussion should be relevant to the thread's title.

The cost of free speech is tolerance for other’s opinions.
I.
And it appears that if someone doesn't agree with yours then they are wrong.

All HD and most SD receivers will work with the new 5LNB dish. IOW, the 5LNB dish is backward compatible with older equipment.

The H20 experience for me has been disappointing, at best. I have had 3 defective H20s and the current one doesn't work quite right. And you'll *hate* the user interface/guide, compared to the 360.

If you're satisfied with your 360 and get good OTA with it, I'm not sure I would change receivers. But you can always reactivate the 360 later if you can't live with the H20.

Thanks bro,

I appreciate the reply.

Things have chnaged, I'll be getting the HR20-700 and plan to use it side by side with the 360 until I see how OTA looks on the HR-20 once this is enabled.

I'll try and keep all HR20 comments to the appropriate thread, just wanted to say thanks

And it appears that if someone doesn't agree with yours then they are wrong.

I'm not judging right or wrong. I asked for tolerance.
I spent many years & lost too many good people defending this country & your rights to be what you are [want] right or wrong.

Well now I'm confused. I have an H20, is there a HD20 and if so what is the difference? I presume the HR20 is a recordable receiver. If it would solve my H20 issues I think it is appropriate here.

On another note, there seems to be quite a few people much more knowledgeable about this technology than me and I was hoping to change the subject to my question. I get some kind of interference on D* HD CBS Local Station. It is the worst of my locals with interference of some kind on average of once per minute. The last service call I was assured I didn't have a line of sight problem and that there wasn't anything that could be done to fix the problem by technicians here. He said it was an issue with the H20. Now my question if it is the H20 in my house why does the same channel CBS go through the H20 receiver to my TV from my UHF antenna with preamp, that has nothing to do with D*, separate wiring etc. and give a perfect picture? Signal strength as measured by the H20 is in the 80's. I don't understand why they both wouldn't have the same interference problems if it was the H20 causing the problems. It would seem more logical to my muddled brain that it would be the transponder on the satellite.

Well now I'm confused. I have an H20, is there a HD20 and if so what is the difference? I presume the HR20 is a recordable receiver.





Correct. It's the new DVR from D*.

Well now I'm confused. I have an H20, is there a HD20 and if so what is the difference?

The current D* HD STB's are the HR20 (DVR) and H20 (non-DVR), there is no HD20.

The H20 has two different model numbers the 600 and 100. They are supposed to be basically the same receiver, just made by different manufacturs.

Well now I'm confused. I have an H20, is there a HD20 and if so what is the difference? I presume the HR20 is a recordable receiver. If it would solve my H20 issues I think it is appropriate here.

On another note, there seems to be quite a few people much more knowledgeable about this technology than me and I was hoping to change the subject to my question. I get some kind of interference on D* HD CBS Local Station. It is the worst of my locals with interference of some kind on average of once per minute. The last service call I was assured I didn't have a line of sight problem and that there wasn't anything that could be done to fix the problem by technicians here. He said it was an issue with the H20. Now my question if it is the H20 in my house why does the same channel CBS go through the H20 receiver to my TV from my UHF antenna with preamp, that has nothing to do with D*, separate wiring etc. and give a perfect picture? Signal strength as measured by the H20 is in the 80's. I don't understand why they both wouldn't have the same interference problems if it was the H20 causing the problems. It would seem more logical to my muddled brain that it would be the transponder on the satellite.

I'm glad we can get back on topic.
I have seen the same problem with CBS in the Sacramento area. After contacting the manager of the engineering department, it was explained as a local problem.
Why you don't see it on both OTA & SAT is if you have a -600 unit there are two receiver [sections] in the unit. In my case my OTA works better than the same feed sent to D* which is then converted & uplinked by D* [in Sacramento] to the SAT and then down to your rec.

The -100 doesn't have the two receiver sections.

On my old "Pre HD" setup, I had a Toshiba CRT with the Hughes HBH-SA box. A nice feature was the closed captioning popping up whenever I muted the TV. I now have the H20 receiver with the Sony KDS-50A2000 TV.

Question: Does anyone know of ANY way to enable the CC only when muting the set? It's terrific if the phone rings so you can keep up with what is going on while the TV is muted. I've had no luck so far.

Thanks,
Chris

I'm glad we can get back on topic.
I have seen the same problem with CBS in the Sacramento area. After contacting the manager of the engineering department, it was explained as a local problem.
Why you don't see it on both OTA & SAT is if you have a -600 unit there are two receiver [sections] in the unit. In my case my OTA works better than the same feed sent to D* which is then converted & uplinked by D* [in Sacramento] to the SAT and then down to your rec.

The -100 doesn't have the two receiver sections.

I have the -100 so that doesn't seem to answer my question. I am in the Boston area.

On my old "Pre HD" setup, I had a Toshiba CRT with the Hughes HBH-SA box. A nice feature was the closed captioning popping up whenever I muted the TV. I now have the H20 receiver with the Sony KDS-50A2000 TV.

Question: Does anyone know of ANY way to enable the CC only when muting the set? It's terrific if the phone rings so you can keep up with what is going on while the TV is muted. I've had no luck so far.

Check your TV menu.

My TV will auto CC if I enable the "CC on Mute" option in the TVs setup menu. Many TVs have this feature.

I have the -100 so that doesn't seem to answer my question. I am in the Boston area.There are problems with the MPEG4 feeds on some channels in some cities. They involve getting the signal from the station and then getting it to the satellite. The number of stations with such problems is dropping but it's still a work in progress. It's doesn't matter whether the receiver is an H20-100, H20-600 or HR20-700. It's a source problem, not a receiver problem.

There are problems with the MPEG4 feeds on some channels in some cities. They involve getting the signal from the station and then getting it to the satellite. The number of stations with such problems is dropping but it's still a work in progress. It's doesn't matter whether the receiver is an H20-100, H20-600 or HR20-700. It's a source problem, not a receiver problem.

That makes sense however why would this be a chronic problem from only some stations in some cities? In the DFW DMA all 5 MPEG4 streams are solid and flawless. I have never seen an audio sync or pixelization problem since my conversion to MPEG4 in December of last year. I guess that is why some on this forum get upset when they hear good things about MPEG4 and the H20.

I hate to go off-topic and ask stupid questions...but I should be allowed a pass on one every so often :P

When is this box going to go interactive???

The NFLST features are great, but I can't see any of it in HD

I hate to go off-topic and ask stupid questions...but I should be allowed a pass on one every so often :P

When is this box going to go interactive???

The NFLST features are great, but I can't see any of it in HD

Not off topic.

I called D* retention about this a few weeks ago and they got advanced tech support on the line. At that time all their system said was mid summer (they're late) and the tech didn't have any update about it. Earl over at DBSTalk says that it's coming but he also hasn't heard when.

If you have the NFL-ST SuperFan upgrade I'd recommend that you call retention and make a stink about it. Who knows, you might get a credit or a free upgrade to the HR20 which does have active enabled now.

Not off topic.

I called D* retention about this a few weeks ago and they got advanced tech support on the line. At that time all their system said was mid summer (they're late) and the tech didn't have any update about it. Earl over at DBSTalk says that it's coming but he also hasn't heard when.

If you have the NFL-ST SuperFan upgrade I'd recommend that you call retention and make a stink about it. Who knows, you might get a credit or a free upgrade to the HR20 which does have active enabled now.

I have the H20 and the HR20, along with ST and SF. I am not aware of any interactive components on the HR20 for SF. Which one in particular are you talking about?

By the way, an upgrade from the H20 to the HR20 is free. You just have to be aware that the HR20 is only a month old and some boxes experience a few "quirks". Mine has been solid however, so far.

I have the H20 and the HR20, along with ST and SF. I am not aware of any interactive components on the HR20 for SF. Which one in particular are you talking about?

By the way, an upgrade from the H20 to the HR20 is free. You just have to be aware that the HR20 is only a month old and some boxes experience a few "quirks". Mine has been solid however, so far.

First, the Gamemixes are interactive, and I wanted the player tracker most of all...

and Second, if I were to just call regular old 1-800-D*, I could easily set up an upgrade from H20 to HR20? What about my lease?

My neighbor's H20-100 interactive works but I was not impressed with it. It slowed his box down to a crawl and wouldn't remember the zip codes for the local weather. Too buggy.

He says he enabled interactive by forcing an "02468" update. I tried that, but I don't have an H20-100 any more (mine died and has been replaced with an H20-600). This is my 4th H20 receiver. I've had -100s (RCA) and -600s (LG) go belly up.

I can finally agree with those that have posted that D* will replace an H20 with an HR20 for free. It is on a "case by case" basis & took several attempts.
The only "stopper" now is the activation. I was told [earlier] by D* that if it was de-activated within 7 days that the two year commitment would be cancelled.
I haven't seen any H series unit work well [yet] & want/need to work with it before I agree to a 2 year commitment.
D* now claims once you've activated it you're committed & what the supervisor told me was in error [false].
With their track record, I'm not about to blindly enter into any commitment.

Anybody know which is correct? Do we have 7 days or not?

First, the Gamemixes are interactive, and I wanted the player tracker most of all...

I didn't realize that was what you meant by interactive. I used the "score update" to surround the HD game I was watching with scores from other games. What I was hoping for was that I could interchange the game I was viewing and keep the scores there. No such luck. Every time I changed channels I had to re-request the scores. Takes too long and I change games too much for that feature to be of value. They need an HD Red Zone channel with that feature. That would be cool.

and Second, if I were to just call regular old 1-800-D*, I could easily set up an upgrade from H20 to HR20? What about my lease?

That's all I did.

Step 1 - call customer retention. The number is posted in dozens of places in this forum.

Step 2 - Tell them nicely that since you are a "Great" D* customer, and a ST and SF subscriber, you would like to upgrade your H20 to a HR-20.

Step 3 - They may want to charge you a discount price. If that happens, politely refuse and say you are willing to pay the shipping charge of $19.99. If that doesn't work, hang up, call back and talk to another rep. I would be surprised if it doesn't work the first time. They want as many HR20s out there as possible. Of course this depends on the availability of HR20s in the hands of the install crews, in your particular market. They CANNOT guarantee an HR20. They can only guarantee a HD DVR. It is highly likely that it will be an HR20.

Step 4 - When the installer shows up to install the HR20, you can deactivate any one of your receivers. It does not have to be the H20. In my case I deactivated one of my older SD receivers and put the activated H20 in that room. The installers, and D* could care less. They are not required to carry any box away.

I didn't realize that was what you meant by interactive. I used the "score update" to surround the HD game I was watching with scores from other games. What I was hoping for was that I could interchange the game I was viewing and keep the scores there. No such luck. Every time I changed channels I had to re-request the scores. Takes too long and I change games too much for that feature to be of value. They need an HD Red Zone channel with that feature. That would be cool.

Well, that score wrap that goes around the screen is also an interactive feature not available on the H20. And yes, an HD Red Zone channel would be the only channel I watch on Sundays.



That's all I did.

Step 1 - call customer retention. The number is posted in dozens of places in this forum.

Step 2 - Tell them nicely that since you are a "Great" D* customer, and a ST and SF subscriber, you would like to upgrade your H20 to a HR-20.

Step 3 - They may want to charge you a discount price. If that happens, politely refuse and say you are willing to pay the shipping charge of $19.99. If that doesn't work, hang up, call back and talk to another rep. I would be surprised if it doesn't work the first time. They want as many HR20s out there as possible. Of course this depends on the availability of HR20s in the hands of the install crews, in your particular market. They CANNOT guarantee an HR20. They can only guarantee a HD DVR. It is highly likely that it will be an HR20.

Step 4 - When the installer shows up to install the HR20, you can deactivate any one of your receivers. It does not have to be the H20. In my case I deactivated one of my older SD receivers and put the activated H20 in that room. The installers, and D* could care less. They are not required to carry any box away.

If I were to use my H20 on a SDTV, would the SD channels show up funny? And if I were to replace my H20, would that violate the 2 year lease?

...If I were to use my H20 on a SDTV, would the SD channels show up funny? And if I were to replace my H20, would that violate the 2 year lease?
Connect the H20 to an SDTV via the S-video or composite (RCA) Video & Audio jacks.
Change the TV type to "4x3" in the setup menu.
I the picture looks "weird" (it shouldn't), hit the format button until the picture looks the way you want it.

Replacing the H20 with a newer type HD receiver or DVR will restart your 2 year programming commitment beginning on the day you activate a new receiver.

I know the units are now 'leased' and folks are not likely to hack them, but has anyone tried improving cooling to improve reliability? Ideas that come to mind include adding a fan or running the unit 'naked', at least for testing.
I plan on buying one of these: http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/kill_a_watt_electric_usage_monitor_review
to check power draw.

I know the units are now 'leased' and folks are not likely to hack them, but has anyone tried improving cooling to improve reliability? Ideas that come to mind include adding a fan or running the unit 'naked', at least for testing.
I plan on buying one of these: http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/kill_a_watt_electric_usage_monitor_review
to check power draw.

There are dozens of posts featuring various USB fan options and ideas in this thread. You may want to do a search in this thread for "USB" and you find a few of them.

We would all be interested to know exactly what the current draw of the H20 is. What model do you have, the 100 or the 600? Do you have any other D* receivers you can compare it to?

We would all be interested to know exactly what the current draw of the H20 is. What model do you have, the 100 or the 600? Do you have any other D* receivers you can compare it to?

a 600.
I can compare it to my ts160.

edit: I checked some of those posts. They mention the fans but no real info on whether improving cooling gained anything stability-wise.

a 600.
I can compare it to my ts160.

edit: I checked some of those posts. They mention the fans but no real info on whether improving cooling gained anything stability-wise.

I think the premise is that a cooler receiver is a better performing receiver, but you would have to judge that for yourself in your particular scenario and environment. I installed this one from Targus for $20 on ebay I think.

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?ACTION=Enter&thispage=01100200500101_BC77090P.shtml&ORDER_ID=!ORDERID!

It lowered the temperature on the top of my 600 from 107 to 100 degrees. But I never had any problems with my 600 before or after so I don't know if it would fix a percieved problem that you have.

If you are sure your H20 is failing regularly or defective a fan probably won't bring it back. Just call D* level 2 tech support (8887137772) and tell them nicely that your H20 is locking up all the time and request another one be sent overnight. Do not negotiate and do not troubleshoot. Just be firm that it is dead and you need another one. It will arrive overnight. In all likelihood you will get a refurbed 600 that runs cooler.

EDIT: Some markets have problems with their MPEG4 streams, some do not. Don't confuse MPEG4 audio sync problems and pixelization with a bad H20. Replacing it will just result in the same problem.

I'm not currently having issues...I actually just got through activating it. I would like to be pre-emptive rather than wasting my time repeatedly RMAing a poorly designed unit....especially if the 'new/refurbished' unit is the same exact design. The time wasted on hold with D* just to get the new card married was bad enough.
The comments in this thread are not confidence inspiring. If minor cooling mods can save me that time/trouble down the line, it will be worth it.

I think the premise is that a cooler receiver is a better performing receiver, but you would have to judge that for yourself in your particular scenario and environment. Some markets have problems with their MPEG4 streams, some do not. Don't confuse MPEG4 audio sync problems and pixelization with a bad H20. Replacing it will just result in the same problem.
Had the opportunity to do an interesting comparison the past week.

I checked my H20-600 (which recently got moved into another room), as well as an older TS-160 and my newer HR20-700 HD DVR.

All ran for at least 3 hours non-stop - and I used the same expensive digital thermometer for sampling:

H20 receiver - about 102 degrees
Samsung TS-160 - about 106 degrees
HR20 - 700 DVR - about 100 degrees

The H20 is a year old, the Samsung 2 1/2 years old, and the H20-700 less than 2 weeks old. Temps were all within 6 degree range, and IMHO, not that hot at all. MY old VCR is almost the same temp after 3 hours.

Of the 2 dozen or so H20 owners I know of personnally (and seen their equipment in action), only 1 had a heat issue, and he got a quick replacement from D* - no problems since (and they gave him a refurb H20-600, not a 100 model). MPEG 4 locals on the H20 and HR20 are both solid.

Three units, 3 technologies, 3 manufacturers - no heat problems. The Sammy TS-160 even works as well as the day it was bought.

It is unfortunate that some have experienced heat issues, but I suspect that since we tend to hear only from those with problems, and mostly not from those of us who have no problems, the perception is somewhat misrepresentative of the tens and hundreds of thousands of OK units in the field.

H20 receiver - about 102 degrees
Samsung TS-160 - about 106 degrees
HR20 - 700 DVR - about 100 degrees

It is unfortunate that some have experienced heat issues, but I suspect that since we tend to hear only from those with problems, and mostly not from those of us who have no problems, the perception is somewhat misrepresentative of the tens and hundreds of thousands of OK units in the field.

I agree. My H20-600 is unmodified. It runs at 107 degrees as measured on the top with a digital thermocouple, and it is hot to the touch. I have had it for 4 months. Never had a single problem, lockup, or reset. It is on 24x7 and always runs great with great PQ. My HR20 runs at 102 degrees and is hot to the touch as well. I have not heard one person complain that it is too hot, despite the usual plethora of bugs with new hardware platforms. What a difference 4 degrees makes!

D* installed somewhere between 750,000 and 1 million of these boxes in a year. H20 owners did not come to this forum to say it was working great. They only post problems and frustrations. Hence there is a skewed perception that the H20 is LIKELY to fail or have problems. Nothing you said could convince some readers otherwise because all they read about were the problems that supported their point of view. The same thing is going on with the HR20 now. It is fascinating to watch.

I'm not currently having issues...I actually just got through activating it. I would like to be pre-emptive rather than wasting my time repeatedly RMAing a poorly designed unit....especially if the 'new/refurbished' unit is the same exact design. The time wasted on hold with D* just to get the new card married was bad enough.
The comments in this thread are not confidence inspiring. If minor cooling mods can save me that time/trouble down the line, it will be worth it.

Somewhere in the posting was a recommendation to raise the unit [-600] off the shelf to improve air flow.
I used some "2x4" to raise it & saw a drop in temp.
A Cheap way to see.

a 600.
I can compare it to my ts160.

edit: I checked some of those posts. They mention the fans but no real info on whether improving cooling gained anything stability-wise.

Check my post on page 119

Stability has been rock solid

Well ,my refurbished H20-600 arrived yesterday. I had it on for 5 minutes and the top was burning HOT. I believe that this unit came back to DTV and they just put a refurbished unit label on it. It is on its way back to DTV. Supposed to send out another one;we will see what happens
It even had the prior owner's zip code left in it for local channels.
It is a shame what has happened to DTV quality equipment.
I had many Sony units in the past and never had issues.
Why did DTV discontinue the practice of various manufacturers making there equipment.

D* installed somewhere between 750,000 and 1 million of these boxes in a year. H20 owners did not come to this forum to say it was working great. here is a skewed perception that the H20 is LIKELY to fail or have problems. Nothing you said could convinThey only post problems and frustrations. Hence tce some readers otherwise because all they read about were the problems that supported their point of view. The same thing is going on with the HR20 now. It is fascinating to watch.

I for one will disagree with that as I am 2 for 2 bad units in less than 6-months. LG POC!!!

... It is a shame what has happened to DTV quality equipment.
I had many Sony units in the past and never had issues.
Why did DTV discontinue the practice of various manufacturers making there equipment.
Actually they never had that many manufacturers, although there have been a lot of brands over the years. Most newer branded boxes have been clones of another manufacturer's brand (including many Sonys, made by LG/Zenith). The bulk of receivers have been mfg'd by RCA. Also, LG, Hughes, and Samsung.

D* decided to standardize receivers, remotes and GUIs to make customer support easier, and have more control over the subscriber. It also makes leasing and refurb of returned boxes simpler. That makes good business sense, but their cost cutting in STB manufacturing is coming back to bite them, as is apparent with the H20s.

AFAIK, most current boxes are made by RCA (-100s), LG(-600s) and Pace(-700s), with the DirecTV logo on the box, instead of the actual manufacturer name.

Thanks. But, i still prefer my Samsung TS 160 over the H20
It works better,has better menus and options
I hate to give it up,but MPEG4 dictates the facts

I just got the HD20 receiver my question is got 3 LNB dish can i get any hd channels from the dish got now thanx for the help
robert

I just got the HD20 receiver my question is got 3 LNB dish can i get any hd channels from the dish got now thanx for the help
robert

You should be able to get all the HD channels except for any local into local HD channels and maybe your HD RSN if D* is carrying it in your area.

You should get everything but your locals and a sports channel or two.

The HD locals look better with antenna than they do on D* anyway, so I wouldn't bother getting the 5LNB dish yet if you have good OTA antenna. A smaller 5LNB dish may be available before long too, so that's another reason to wait on getting the 5LNB dish.

thanks alot for all your help were I live ota ant picture looks bad looks like forced to get the 5 LNB dish
robert

You can't pick up digital OTA? What kind of antenna do you have and how far are you from the transmitter towers? Check your distance at:
http://www.antennaweb.org

Update

7 H20-600's are now in use at our home. One had a reboot problem and DTV replaced for free with a new H20-600. This is the only problem I can report. Picture / sound quality has been excellent.

Update

7 H20-600's are now in use at our home. One had a reboot problem and DTV replaced for free with a new H20-600. This is the only problem I can report. Picture / sound quality has been excellent.
That works out to a 14-15% failure rate [for you]. if this is a true rate for the units, then 14 out of every 100 customers will have problems.

If you pay for HD you should get 72-89 in HD, at least I did with a Hughes Platnum HD receiver and the 3 LNB dish. My understanding was the the HD20 only made getting Mpeg4 signals a reality, but needs the 5 LNB Dish.

That works out to a 14-15% failure rate [for you]. if this is a true rate for the units, then 14 out of every 100 customers will have problems.
Pleeeease...what kind of math is this supposed to be? This is a great example of how anyone can use numbers to prove their point - even if its a useless point.

I know of at least 2 dozen H20 units with friends and neighbors, NONE of which were either returned NOR had overheating or rebooting problems. That 100% no problems. I wouldn't use that number to equate to a national result any more than your example.

As an FYI - the regional distributor in this part of the country (6 states) has his actual numbers of defective units returned in his monthly as well as YTD reports - the rate is <1.8%, and that includes the ones some folks returned just to get a 100 model for no real reason. He was told that they needed to accept returns without much arguing at all.

Pleeeease...what kind of math is this supposed to be? This is a great example of how anyone can use numbers to prove their point - even if its a useless point.

I know of at least 2 dozen H20 units with friends and neighbors, NONE of which were either returned NOR had overheating or rebooting problems. That 100% no problems. I wouldn't use that number to equate to a national result any more than your example.

As an FYI - the regional distributor in this part of the country (6 states) has his actual numbers of defective units returned in his monthly as well as YTD reports - the rate is <1.8%, and that includes the ones some folks returned just to get a 100 model for no real reason. He was told that they needed to accept returns without much arguing at all.
The kind of math is simple.
The data base was small.
It's nice to hear about a larger data base.
As I read it -- IF this--- then.
I don't profess to know what the rate is.
It did get a valid reply for more to know.

...- the regional distributor in this part of the country (6 states) has his actual numbers of defective units returned in his monthly as well as YTD reports - the rate is <1.8%, and that includes the ones some folks returned just to get a 100 model for no real reason. He was told that they needed to accept returns without much arguing at all.

This is obvious that there is a problem on the national level that fortunately, he hasn't seen yet.

Pleeeease...what kind of math is this supposed to be? This is a great example of how anyone can use numbers to prove their point - even if its a useless point.

I know of at least 2 dozen H20 units with friends and neighbors, NONE of which were either returned NOR had overheating or rebooting problems. That 100% no problems. I wouldn't use that number to equate to a national result any more than your example.

As an FYI - the regional distributor in this part of the country (6 states) has his actual numbers of defective units returned in his monthly as well as YTD reports - the rate is <1.8%, and that includes the ones some folks returned just to get a 100 model for no real reason. He was told that they needed to accept returns without much arguing at all.

Update

I have 8 friends / relatives that have not had any ( rebooting ) problems with their H20-600 's ( 12 units ).
All of them do like the picture / sound quality of the H20.

Isn't this the idea of free speech forums?
The exchange of ideas for people to think about?
One man's freedom fight is another man's terrorist.
It's just a difference of perspective [opinion].
Tolerance for others [that may not agree] & the constructive exchange of ideas was what [I beleive] the founding fathers gave us along with the duty to defend it.

Isn't this the idea of free speech forums?
The exchange of ideas for people to think about?
One man's freedom fight is another man's terrorist.
It's just a difference of perspective [opinion].
Tolerance for others [that may not agree] & the constructive exchange of ideas was what [I beleive] the founding fathers gave us along with the duty to defend it.
YES
NO
YES
YES

Looks like your error rate is 25%. LOL :D

YES
NO
YES
YES

Looks like your error rate is 25%. LOL :D

And this would be on a good day [for me]!

YES
NO
YES
YES

Looks like your error rate is 25%. LOL :D

You committed the crime of defending D* and/or their equipment against wild claims of "the sky is falling, all the time, everywhere." For that you will be penalized by being flamed by those who need to think that D* is always broken, all the time, everywhere. Where is Techo when you need him? :confused:

Had a H20 and AT9 installed Saturday. Works like a champ so far (though both the dish and receiver are pretty big). I like the way the H20 looks though.

YES
NO
YES
YES

Looks like your error rate is 25%. LOL :D

I try not to take life too seriously, but for entertainment, which did I get wrong?

five lines, but [only] four "answers"?

I suspect this one -- "One man's freedom fight is another man's terrorist."

"Fight" is a conflict between two (or more) parties, "terrorist" is a nasty individual.

Fortunately, I don't have a dog in this _____________.

Carl

I suspect this one -- "One man's freedom fight is another man's terrorist."

"Fight" is a conflict between two (or more) parties, "terrorist" is a nasty individual.

Fortunately, I don't have a dog in this _____________.

Carl
Bingo.

...and now back to our thread...

My H20 has been working flawlessly, not at all hot, and with crisp HD for a year now. Watching the Monday Night Football preshow tonight is just awesome in HD.

My new HR20 in the Theater Room seems to be even better.

Gosh....we sure are all getting spoiled with such great HD.

I can live with that. :D

I suspect this one -- "One man's freedom fight is another man's terrorist."

"Fight" is a conflict between two (or more) parties, "terrorist" is a nasty individual.

Fortunately, I don't have a dog in this _____________.

Carl

Thanks, I'm Dyslexic & missed it [even on my second & third read].

Hey does anyone know if this H20 reciever will make my picture quality better on my SCEPTRE X30sv-NAGA III 30" by switching from 480-1080? When I play my PS2 games, the images are blurry. The same thing when watching DVDs but a little better. On the TV I don't know where to change between the 480-1080i so therefore I thought maybe buying this reciever will help.
On the box it says it's HDTV ready but I can't find where to switch between those contrast options!
Can anyone help???

Ohhh yeah I don't have the manual from my LCD so I can't look it up!

I was wondering if I can use one of these w/o a DirecTV subscription just so I can use the OTA capabilities for HD...

If not, if I can use this with a standard (no HD) DirecTV service and be able to use the OTA for local OTA HD channels... (My condo complex cannot receive HD through the main current sattelite dish right now)

I have a Westy 42" LCD monitor, and I'm a newbie if you cant tell by the question..

I was wondering if I can use one of these w/o a DirecTV subscription just so I can use the OTA capabilities for HD...

If not, if I can use this with a standard (no HD) DirecTV service and be able to use the OTA for local OTA HD channels... (My condo complex cannot receive HD through the main current sattelite dish right now)

I have a Westy 42" LCD monitor, and I'm a newbie if you cant tell by the question..

I know the OTA will not work without an active D* subscription. It's "theirs" & will not function without.

My guess [just that] is the lack of the new dish shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by badboyeee
I was wondering if I can use one of these w/o a DirecTV subscription just so I can use the OTA capabilities for HD...

If not, if I can use this with a standard (no HD) DirecTV service and be able to use the OTA for local OTA HD channels... (My condo complex cannot receive HD through the main current sattelite dish right now)

I have a Westy 42" LCD monitor, and I'm a newbie if you cant tell by the question..

v.o.s. is correct - the H20 does need to be activated for the OTA tuner to work. HD subscription is not required and the H20 will work with the original D* antenna (round), 3 LNB antenna or the new AT9.

Check with neighbors and others in your area to find out what type of OTA antenna you will need. The satellite dish will not work for an OTA antenna.

Hey does anyone know if this H20 reciever will make my picture quality better on my SCEPTRE X30sv-NAGA III 30" by switching from 480-1080? When I play my PS2 games, the images are blurry. The same thing when watching DVDs but a little better. On the TV I don't know where to change between the 480-1080i so therefore I thought maybe buying this reciever will help.
On the box it says it's HDTV ready but I can't find where to switch between those contrast options!
Can anyone help???

Ohhh yeah I don't have the manual from my LCD so I can't look it up!

All you need is a basic subscription to DirecTV and dish that can see the main 101 satellite.
And of course, an antenna suitable for your area.
http://www.antennaweb.org/

Hey does anyone know if this H20 reciever will make my picture quality better on my SCEPTRE X30sv-NAGA III 30" by switching from 480-1080? When I play my PS2 games, the images are blurry. The same thing when watching DVDs but a little better. On the TV I don't know where to change between the 480-1080i ...

That TV displays all input sources as 1280x768. You cannot change it.

Is it motion that mainly looks like crap? If so, the H20 or some other HD source will not likely help matters.

That TV displays all input sources as 1280x768. You cannot change it.

Is it motion that mainly looks like crap? If so, the H20 or some other HD source will not likely help matters.
Yeah it's mainly motion that shows like crap, but when the image is stable it's little better!
So what about larger screen LCDs with even larger resolution than 1280x768? Won't they be even worse?

Yeah it's mainly motion that shows like crap, but when the image is stable it's little better!
So what about larger screen LCDs with even larger resolution than 1280x768? Won't they be even worse?

Isn't this the same complaint [with computers] that "gamers" have with LCD monitors. It's not the resolution [1080i = 1920x1080] but the time for a LCD element to change [color].
CRTs & Plasma screens are just faster & isn't this the reason they're working with the DLP "mirrors" [on a chip]?

Just curious...does the -100 have the same "skewed" signal meter as the -600? Meaning is 75-82 a normal signal strength? However, Transponder 18 still shows 100 whereas all the others show 75-82.

Just curious...does the -100 have the same "skewed" signal meter as the -600? Meaning is 75-82 a normal signal strength? However, Transponder 18 still shows 100 whereas all the others show 75-82.
The best way I would describe "signal strength" as seen from the units is ""for informational proposes only". There is very little correlation from what you see and a real power meter. What you see is software generated [meaning it can & has been "adjusted" by sw].
I tested a new unit with "low signal" next to my old Sony with "great signal" by attenuating the signal [@ the dish] & both lost picture @ the same point [attenuation, not unit numbers]. This is a "real world" test which proved [to me] the "variation" in the software. After a new sw upgrade my "lows" came up [a bit] & my 100s dropped into the 90s.
The dish hasn't changed & has been "reverified" with "real power meters".
Unit to unit will not show exactly the same.
I would say if there is a 10-20 difference between units, then I might be concerned.

The relative signal strength reading difference between receivers has nothing to do with how well the box works. I've seen little difference in how the H20s (both -100s & -600s) hande rain fade, compared to other receivers I have used. If anything, they seem to deal with rain fade slightly better than previous boxes I've had.

Yeah it's mainly motion that shows like crap, but when the image is stable it's little better!
So what about larger screen LCDs with even larger resolution than 1280x768? Won't they be even worse?
Resolution has nothing to do with it. It's slow response time that makes some LCD monitors look blurry during motion scenes. On most newer monitors, slow response time is not much of an issue - except on the cheaper LCD displays. With LCDs, you get what you pay for....

So answering your original question, the H20 will not improve blurry motion on a monitor with slow response time.

The relative signal strength reading difference between receivers has nothing to do with how well the box works. I've seen little difference in how the H20s (both -100s & -600s) hande rain fade, compared to other receivers I have used. If anything, they seem to deal with rain fade slightly better than previous boxes I've had.

I agree. The H20-100 and -600 have excellent rain fade properties for whatever reason. In fact I have never seen any of my H20s fade due to rain in the 10 months I have had them. I replaced one of them with an HR20 last week and the very next rain event the HR20 faded but the H20s did not.

The best way I would describe "signal strength" as seen from the units is ""for informational proposes only". There is very little correlation from what you see and a real power meter. What you see is software generated [meaning it can & has been "adjusted" by sw].
I tested a new unit with "low signal" next to my old Sony with "great signal" by attenuating the signal [@ the dish] & both lost picture @ the same point [attenuation, not unit numbers]. This is a "real world" test which proved [to me] the "variation" in the software. After a new sw upgrade my "lows" came up [a bit] & my 100s dropped into the 90s.
The dish hasn't changed & has been "reverified" with "real power meters".
Unit to unit will not show exactly the same.
I would say if there is a 10-20 difference between units, then I might be concerned.

Thanks for the explanation and testing. This works the same with signal bars on CDMA phones....where bars are not a true indication of signal and call clarity.

I just wanted a relative idea or comparison that my signal meter #'s were what everyone else was getting....making sure that my dish was aligned correctly.

Just curious...does the -100 have the same "skewed" signal meter as the -600? Meaning is 75-82 a normal signal strength?
Yes.

...Transponder 18 still shows 100 whereas all the others show 75-82.
Which satellite?

First thanks for all the posts. they are [quite] helpful & there's some good info.

FYI For thoses that don't know about Sats.
When I used to test them [pre-launch] there were many switches, transponders, antennas, etc. They sure aren't as "simple" as they seem [from the ground].
The signal strength can [will] change between "high gain" spot antennas & "normal" antennas. To add to the mix, the sat will change transponders when the signal to noise fails [spec]. There are many, many switches that change to make this happen.
Then there are the frequencies: 2 GHz [most] & 4 GHz that has to be downconverted for the unit to use [that little box on the back of your unit]. To date D* doesn't seem to use this [yet].

I agree. The H20-100 and -600 have excellent rain fade properties for whatever reason. In fact I have never seen any of my H20s fade due to rain in the 10 months I have had them. I replaced one of them with an HR20 last week and the very next rain event the HR20 faded but the H20s did not.
I've had almost no rain fade on the H20, and only 1 instance with the HR20 (torential thunderstorm when I shouldn't have even had the set on). Singnal strength on the H20 is high 80's up to 90%, HR 20 is all in the 90's up to 97%

Based on comparitive signal strengths of these 2 units at the same time, it would appear that the latest tuners in the HR20 are the best to date - it also means they're probably more sensitive (to rain fade). In general, in all the time I've had the H20 and the sort time I've had the HR20, I've only had 3 cases of rain fade - all three were during severe thunderstorms when watching TV would be the second prudent choice to heading for the basement.

I just hooked up an H20 I got from CC online this evening. I see those quirks, except I haven't tried the system test other than setup, and have some others to note.
When setting up a custom channel list, there are points while scrolling through local OTA channels to add/subtract where the list of available channels just disappears. I found I have to manually enter a channel number to get the list back. Until I did that, I would press several buttons trying to get somwhere else and the box would lockup and then reboot.
I wonder if it is related to another quirk, in which the analog locals from Houston on D* show as being unavailable when tuned to. They show up in the guide with program info, but won't come in. What's really confusing is some programs even have the HD tag next to them, even though they can't be HD on the current satellite channels. I haven't called D* yet to see if that can be fixed.
I also set the banner time to 2 seconds, and it seems to go with that if you change channels using the channel up/down button. It may be if you use the guide, or tune directly to go to a channel the banner stays longer. I'll have to play with it some more to see just when that's the case.
Otherwise the H20 seems to be a pretty decent receiver so far. The OTA tuner seems to be pretty sensitive, picking up several channels reliably that the HD-Tivo seems to have issue with.

I had the same problem, there are (or were) at least two different H20's, one runs very hot the other does not. They replaced my original (the one running very hot) with the other one and the problem went away. People who read this forum more closely than i can fill in the "blanks" part of this, like which is which.

I believe that quirk is in the H20-600s, made by LG. None of the H20 boxes are very stable for the first few days after activation, and that particular bug often goes away after initial setup, either on its own, or from a SW update downloaded via sat.

This workaround for the "can't setup a custom list" will usually work:
Go to the setup Favorite settings and SET the CURRENT fav list to one OTHER THAN the one you're trying to edit. When finished editing a list, go back to SET CURRENT list and change it to the FAV list of your choice.

Based on comparitive signal strengths of these 2 units at the same time, it would appear that the latest tuners in the HR20 are the best to date - it also means they're probably more sensitive (to rain fade).
I would agree with you [no, h*** hasn't frozen over (LOL)] about the new tuners & I 'm sure you meant "less" sensitive to rain fade.
The -600 uses [for OTA] the new 5th generation tuner that is more sensitive than the -100.
We're still waiting to "know" about the -700 [for OTA].

Yes.


Which satellite?

Transponder 18 on the 101 bird....

BTW, the OTA tuner is betterthan my DTC-100 but slightly less sensitive than the -600.

I would agree with you [no, h*** hasn't frozen over (LOL)] about the new tuners & I 'm sure you meant "less" sensitive to rain fade.

You are correct (as usual)...where's my ice pick.... :D

Transponder 18 on the 101 bird....
Spot beam for your local channels. Those are nearly always stronger than the CONUS transponders. This is why it's showing 100, when other xpndrs aren't.

I think the H20 sat signal strength meter shows more accurate readings than previous receivers.


[please put your location or city in your profile (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/usercp.php)]

I just got the 5 LNB AT9 Dish. Should my HD Local channels be broadcast in only 480P? My receiver is set to "native" in the display settings?

I just got the 5 LNB AT9 Dish. Should my HD Local channels be broadcast in only 480P? My receiver is set to "native" in the display settings?

Check your local forum, but the vast majority of locals are boradcasting in either 720p or 1080i.

I just got the 5 LNB AT9 Dish. Should my HD Local channels be broadcast in only 480P? My receiver is set to "native" in the display settings?

Even when my local MPEG4 channels broadcast SD programming I "lock" the resolution out of my H20 and HR20 to 1080i. I get black side bars on my plasma but it looks better to me than straight 480p native. YMMV

I just got the 5 LNB AT9 Dish. Should my HD Local channels be broadcast in only 480P? My receiver is set to "native" in the display settings?


Usually daytime programming is just 480. Prime time should be in 720 ro 1080.

Usually daytime programming is just 480. Prime time should be in 720 ro 1080.
Even though most daytime programming is not HD, nearly all local HD stations upconvert everything to either 720p or 1080i.

To the original poster re 480p:
1. Go into setup and turn Native OFF.
2. Look at your display and hit the Format button on the remote, and compare 1080i vs 720p.
3. Select the one that looks best on your display.
4. Go into the setup menu resolution tab and turn off all the resolutions except the one that looked best on your display.

anyone else having problems with the resolution changing do to the HDMI cable. I am having the problem and have read other places that this is known. only DTV isnt very aware of the problem.

I just got the 5 LNB AT9 Dish. Should my HD Local channels be broadcast in only 480P? My receiver is set to "native" in the display settings?

You set to native but you also have to select 1080I or 720P or both in the "resolution" tab.. I have 480P/480I and 1080I selected under native. When a station transmits in 720P or 1080I the box automatically switches to 1080I.

I am noticing some flaky behavior with my H20-100 and Samsung Lns4092d (LCD) with both a HDMI or component cable. Example: I have native off and then just 720p selected within the H20, but when I hit info on the TV remote, it shows 1080i. For a while I had only 1080i checked in the H20 settings and the tv was only showing 720p. It's like regardless of what I set, it's not pushing correctly from the H20 side. I can even go in and unselect all resolutions from within the H20, but the tv shows 1080i (consistently across all channels).

My H20-600 was going bad so I had Directv send me another H20. I received an H20 -100 as a replacement. I hooked everything up like I had before, One TV using a component connection and the other using HDMI (40ft cable). The component looks excellent, but the HDMI connection works but has a lot of snow, especially on dark colors. I have manipulated the connection and solely hooked up the HDMI but the problem still occurs. I am about to return the new receiver, but I figured I asked a few questions first:

1. Is there an upgrade that I might be missing that fixes HDMI problems? 100C is my latest
2. Is there something unique to the 100 to get the HDMI connection to work?

Sharon. By the way, I prefer component to HDMI. You did try the HDMI conponent to both tvs, yes?

Wise Magic:...do remember your local stations are not telecasting HD..EXCEPT when they are relaying HD programming from the networks..mostly between 8 and 11 each evening EDT.

Sorry to repeat; see this is already answered above. I think there are only 2 local stations, in the usa, that do HD on their own.

My H20-600 was going bad so I had Directv send me another H20. I received an H20 -100 as a replacement. I hooked everything up like I had before, One TV using a component connection and the other using HDMI (40ft cable). The component looks excellent, but the HDMI connection works but has a lot of snow, especially on dark colors. I have manipulated the connection and solely hooked up the HDMI but the problem still occurs. I am about to return the new receiver, but I figured I asked a few questions first:

1. Is there an upgrade that I might be missing that fixes HDMI problems? 100C is my latest
2. Is there something unique to the 100 to get the HDMI connection to work?

There is supposedly an update coming for HDMI problems with the H20-100. Actually it was supposed to be coming "in September" so I'm sure D* technicians are working feverishly today (Saturday) to get this done. Not.

Sharon. By the way, I prefer component to HDMI. You did try the HDMI conponent to both tvs, yes?

My other TV does not have HDMI capability. For the HDMI TV, I would have to buy a 40ft component and optic cable to hook it up to replace the HDMI.

dg28, so does your post mean that it is a bug with all H20-100s and I should wait until it is fixed?

My other TV does not have HDMI capability. For the HDMI TV, I would have to buy a 40ft component and optic cable to hook it up to replace the HDMI.

dg28, so does your post mean that it is a bug with all H20-100s and I should wait until it is fixed?

The HDMI problems only occur with certain HDTVs. Can't tell what to do, but I'm waiting until the software fix. I have a Sony projection and the HDMI does not work at all; I get a completely blank screen.

...I have a Sony projection and the HDMI does not work at all; I get a completely blank screen.
What kind of Sony projection TV?

The HDMI problems only occur with certain HDTVs. Can't tell what to do, but I'm waiting until the software fix. I have a Sony projection and the HDMI does not work at all; I get a completely blank screen.

You are correct about the H20-100s. I got a hold of a Samsung LCD and the HDMI connection worked fine. Connected to my Toshiba Plasma it did not, even though the Toshiba worked fine connected to my old H20-600,

I am beginning to wonder if DirecTV will ever get this stuff right.

I just got the 5 LNB AT9 Dish. Should my HD Local channels be broadcast in only 480P? My receiver is set to "native" in the display settings?


Usually daytime programming is just 480. Prime time should be in 720 ro 1080.

Wise Magic:...do remember your local stations are not telecasting HD..EXCEPT when they are relaying HD programming from the networks..mostly between 8 and 11 each evening EDT.

Sorry to repeat; see this is already answered above. I think there are only 2 local stations, in the usa, that do HD on their own.


Come on people....that is not the answer to his question and god only knows where Richard came up with that last BS line.

Even if a station is passing 480 lines of programming during the day (or upconverting by multiply the lines 1.5 times or 2.0 times as a number of stations do) it is still transmitted on either in a 720 line or 1080 line signal.

So the correct answer to you question is no, you should not see 480 output if your D* STB is set to Native.

The quality is not going to be HD quality, just as recording a cassette on a CD is not going to give you CD Quality from a cassette source, but it still plays back like a CD - not like a cassette.

Now, if you are by chance talking about a PBS station that multicast 3-4 SD signals in digital and seldom to ever uses a Widescreen 16:9 HD feed (such as KQED in San Francisco), then those maybe 480 native. The same may also be true of some religous broadcasters, i (formerly Pax) and ethnic broadcasters who have just put a signal on the air, but you stated HD local stations.

So, as you seem to indicate you are talking about station that really broadcast in HD at some point in the day, chances are 99.99999% you are not speaking of this either and no, your output should not be passing though at 480p, but 720p or 1080i.

It is no different than UHD or the FOX Network always running audio coded as 5.1 even the audio is in reality 1 channel mono such as a Presidential Speech. Your receiver will still display it as 5.1.

What kind of Sony projection TV?

It's a KP57WS500. Widescreen tube projection, about 4 years-old. It's actaully got a DVI input, which worked fine with a Samsung TS160 and a H20-600 with a HDMI to DVI converter. No luck yet with the H20-100.

A CRT (tube) projection TV is analog. There is no advantage of using a digital (DVI) connection instead of an analog (component) connection to an analog display.

Come on people....that is not the answer to his question and god only knows where Richard came up with that last BS line.

I applaud you for fighting "the good fight" against the spread of BS.
We're all bozos on the bus, but sometimes it seems the blind are leading the blind.
Freedom from BS!

A CRT (tube) projection TV is analog. There is no advantage of using a digital (DVI) connection instead of an analog (component) connection to an analog display.
I have a Sony KP-51WS500, & I must disagree. The final "stage" [CRT] is analog [as are my eyes] but all of the signal processing is done in digital to the tube.
I don't remember any problem with my H20-100 going from HDMI/DVI [cable] to DVI input.
I've got my -600 in place [right now] so I can't "mock it up" to "remember".

My other TV does not have HDMI capability. For the HDMI TV, I would have to buy a 40ft component and optic cable to hook it up to replace the HDMI.

HDMI cables should be as short as possible. Is your HDMI cable 40' long? That sounds like a possible problem...

I have a quick question that has me concerned...I'm wondering if it's just my area or are/do all MPEG 4 sports look LOUSY!! They look blurred and appear to be in "slow motion". Anyone else experience this?

I have a quick question that has me concerned...I'm wondering if it's just my area or are/do all MPEG 4 sports look LOUSY!! They look blurred and appear to be in "slow motion". Anyone else experience this?

Not just sports, the two 1080i LIL's in Austin have the 8MM effect, the 720p local looks as good as OTA. It's rumored that D* is rolling out fixes on their MPEG4 hardware (not the STB's but the back room stuff) to fix it, folks in NYC say it's much better from what I've read.

I have a quick question that has me concerned...I'm wondering if it's just my area or are/do all MPEG 4 sports look LOUSY!! They look blurred and appear to be in "slow motion". Anyone else experience this?
I too have seen poor picture quality [with my -600] on 1080I. I noticed it first with "NASCAR on NBC" & it was horrible. The same signal D* gets is the same I get OTA so I watched it. After focusing on their "defect", I found it wasn't "just sports" but was there all the time. My other locals are 780P & don't seem to have it.
Call D*, the CSR claimed they were aware.
Yesterday's NASCAR looked better [my OTA picture is still the best].
Another good reason to "preview" DTV's hardware before getting "committed".

Another good reason to "preview" DTV's hardware before getting "committed".

In this case, it's not the STB's problems but with D*'s support hardware, both the H20 and HR20 see this issue and it's been reported that D* is correcting it at their centers, not via a STB upgrade.

In this case, it's not the STB's problems but with D*'s support hardware, both the H20 and HR20 see this issue and it's been reported that D* is correcting it at their centers, not via a STB upgrade.

Any idea on timeframe? Because our local OTA 3-1 CBS affiliate looks great but cuts in/out even with readings in the 80% range.

Also, does anyone else have pixelating/ quick freezing problems with ESPN 2 HD during college football games? Once again REALLY annoying!!!! Happens on my -100 and -600...seems worse on the -100 though.

In this case, it's not the STB's problems but with D*'s support hardware, both the H20 and HR20 see this issue and it's been reported that D* is correcting it at their centers, not via a STB upgrade.
It really doesn't matter where the "problem" is, since you need a working system to judge whether you like the "service" or not. This is the problem with D* & their "blind commitment" to another 2 years of programming [just to "see"].

It really doesn't matter where the "problem" is, since you need a working system to judge whether you like the "service" or not. This is the problem with D* & their "blind commitment" to another 2 years of programming [just to "see"].
Point taken

I have a Sony KP-51WS500, & I must disagree. The final "stage" [CRT] is analog [as are my eyes] but all of the signal processing is done in digital to the tube.
I don't remember any problem with my H20-100 going from HDMI/DVI [cable] to DVI input.
I've got my -600 in place [right now] so I can't "mock it up" to "remember".

I too used a DVI cable to my Hitachi 51" with the -100 unit but I could not notice ANY difference in PQ from component to DVI. However, in SD channels there seemed to be a slight improvment with DVI, but I could not compare them side by side, so i'm sure the differences are negligable.

I too used a DVI cable to my Hitachi 51" with the -100 unit but I could not notice ANY difference in PQ from component to DVI. However, in SD channels there seemed to be a slight improvment with DVI, but I could not compare them side by side, so i'm sure the differences are negligable.
I think you've "got it". If there is any difference you've got to have "superman" eyes to see it.
I think the point about DVI is like my Dell flatpanel, it look like crap with analog input & great with DVI.

A CRT (tube) projection TV is analog. There is no advantage of using a digital (DVI) connection instead of an analog (component) connection to an analog display.

Thanks for the education. Gosh, where did you learn so much about HDTV? Ever heard of HDCP and using the component inputs for other hardware (DVD etc.)? Didn't they teach you about these things at HDTV University?

I think you've "got it". If there is any difference you've got to have "superman" eyes to see it.
I think the point about DVI is like my Dell flatpanel, it look like crap with analog input & great with DVI.

many crt sets do see marked improvement with hdmi/dvi. My phillips 34inch crt is much better on hdmi. I mentioned this to the repair shop one time when it was being serviced, and the guy explained it something like "yeah, the set is set up where the digital input is the first circuit the tv decodes, the other inputs have to be filtered through the decoder"

or something. I'm probably not explaining it particularly well, but many crt sets do prefer HDMI/DVI. I'd imagine it varies from set to set.

As per digital connection to an lcd, yeah, that is a much more marked difference than analog.

btw, just picked up the h20. I'm pleased to be able to record / timeshift hdtv programming, but am just disgusted at the lack of dual buffer to switch seemlessly between tuners. And the transport controls, particularly slo-mo, are just maddening and stupid in their layout. I just cannot believe they make the user hold down the play button for slo-mo. SO effectively, to rewatch a football play for example in slo mo, the only way to do it is to use the jumpback 2times, then hold down play and hope you timed it right. Half the times the machine doesn't recognize the 3 second play hold, and it doesn't work.

It seems like a no-brainer, every single dvr I've ever used implemented these controls better. Whoever the engineers were who decided on the hold play method, were absolute idiots with no practical experience.

If they must use a three second hold command to implement slo-mo (i have no idea why this would be necessary) then why wouldn't they make it the pause button? that way, video is stopped, and you don't have it play 3 seconds while one is trying to get it to slo-mo. It's positively maddening!!! also, the frame advance commands work, but not from slo-mo, so if one wants to use slo-mo, and then frame advance, one has to go out of slo-mo mode by pushing play, then pause, then FF or RW.

Whoever engineered the interface, in addition to the no dual buffering, I would love to meet them in person so I could smack them across the face!!!! :) just kidding :) the stupidity of the interface does bother me though, and i owuld love to ask them what the heck they were thinking!!!

btw, just picked up the h20. I'm pleased to be able to record / timeshift hdtv programming...
The H20 is a receiver. I think you mean the HR20 DVR, which is being discussed in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8567814#post8567814).

I have a quick question that has me concerned...I'm wondering if it's just my area or are/do all MPEG 4 sports look LOUSY!! They look blurred and appear to be in "slow motion". Anyone else experience this?
Yes, this is a known problem with MPEG 4 locals.

many crt sets do see marked improvement with hdmi/dvi. My phillips 34inch crt is much better on hdmi. I mentioned this to the repair shop one time when it was being serviced, and the guy explained it something like "yeah, the set is set up where the digital input is the first circuit the tv decodes, the other inputs have to be filtered through the decoder"

or something. I'm probably not explaining it particularly well, but many crt sets do prefer HDMI/DVI. I'd imagine it varies from set to set.

As per digital connection to an lcd, yeah, that is a much more marked difference than analog.
As you've pointed out, it depends on the TV. My Sony looks great either way, & with your's you can tell [without being Superman]. I guess "how they laid it out" makes the diff... Sony "did good" for a 4 year ago...

I too have seen poor picture quality [with my -600] on 1080I. I noticed it first with "NASCAR on NBC" & it was horrible. The same signal D* gets is the same I get OTA so I watched it. After focusing on their "defect", I found it wasn't "just sports" but was there all the time. My other locals are 780P & don't seem to have it.
Call D*, the CSR claimed they were aware.
Yesterday's NASCAR looked better [my OTA picture is still the best].
Another good reason to "preview" DTV's hardware before getting "committed".

I've posted on the same issues with my 1080i channels. The good news is that Sunday night football on NBC - one of the awful channels - showed none of the problems this week.

A CRT (tube) projection TV is analog. There is no advantage of using a digital (DVI) connection instead of an analog (component) connection to an analog display.
i would like you to be a little bit clearer on your definition of analog as related to crt.

CRTs cannot directly use a digital video signal. It must be converted to analog in order to display the video.

So except for copy protected material that cannot be sent on component, there is usually no PQ improvment when sending video to a CRT via DVI or HDMI, compared to component connections. PQ may vary, depending on your display and source being used.

So except for copy protected material that cannot be sent on component, there is usually no PQ improvment when sending video to a CRT via DVI or HDMI, compared to component connections. PQ may vary, depending on your display and source being used.
Copyright protected material can be sent over an analog signal. They use a different form [to protect it]. Have you ever heard of Macrovision? It overloads the video signal on the "blanked" retrace which the CRT won't display but recorders end up having their AGC "swamped". [I beleive].

Copyright protected material can be sent over an analog signal. They use a different form [to protect it]. Have you ever heard of Macrovision?
Of course, I've heard of macrovision. I was referring to HDCP, not macrovision.

Of course, I've heard of macrovision. I was referring to HDCP, not macrovision.
"except for copy protected material that cannot be sent on component"
This "error" was my point.

I once heard "when two people exchange ideas" their knowledge increases not by the "sum" [of the two], but by the "square".
The "sum" is when you just listen & the "square" is when you think about what you listened to.

I tried searching for this but couldn't find any results.

My H20 is hooked up to my RCA 56" Projection TV, and only displays 480p correctly.

When the 720p format is selected, the picture shows up in three colums, and it's hard to describe further than that.

When 1080i is selected, the picture appears to be bigger than my screen. When viewing ESPN for example, the bottomline is basically cut off the screen, in addition to the extra space on the sides and top of the screen.

I tried searching for this but couldn't find any results.

My H20 is hooked up to my RCA 56" Projection TV, and only displays 480p correctly.

When the 720p format is selected, the picture shows up in three colums, and it's hard to describe further than that.

When 1080i is selected, the picture appears to be bigger than my screen. When viewing ESPN for example, the bottomline is basically cut off the screen, in addition to the extra space on the sides and top of the screen.
I have a couple of dumb questions.
Is your RCA an HDTV, or HD ready"?
My Sony is "HD ready" & doesn't support 720P, but does 1080I.
What you're describing with ESPN sounds [to me] like you have a 4x3 screen [not 16x9] & the picture [HD] is being cropped [normal for 4x3 showing 16x9 format].

I have a 16:9 HDTV

And it's not that their "cutoff" but if I were to adjust the screen positioning in the Setup menu, I could see the very far ends of either side...

My description is: The picture is bigger than the TV screen itself.

What specific model number is your TV?
How do you have the H20 connected to the TV (component or HDMI)?

I have a 16:9 HDTV

And it's not that their "cutoff" but if I were to adjust the screen positioning in the Setup menu, I could see the very far ends of either side...

My description is: The picture is bigger than the TV screen itself.
Thank you, I maybe "over my head" here, since I haven't seen this [yet].
How do you have the H20 connected to your RCA?
I'm defering to arxaw...

HD52W56...that may be the correct number, although I'll have to get behind my TV to see the exact number

and I'm using and HDMI/DVI converter cable.

Correction: HD56W58

Make sure the TV's format is set to NORMAL. Check your TV user manual page 55 for details.

H20 should be set to 1080i pillar box

I know you are all exited that I read every last post in anticipation of MPEG 4 someday being available in the Monterey county area of California.

It was interesting to plot the progression of desirability: -600s to -100s, back to -600s now, maybe HR recorders and whatever the -700 might be.

I want to be prepared to deal with equipment, etc. Since we are way down the line to receive this service, most of you have been early adaptors by comparison and have had to deal with all of this. I will profit by your experiences and hardships. Thank you.

Seems I will have to go over to the HD recorder area to check on that. I do not record much, but am interested in its receiving function. I think it would be fair to allow that aspect of the HR to be discussed here.

I want to be prepared to deal with equipment, etc. Since we are way down the line to receive this service, most of you have been early adaptors by comparison and have had to deal with all of this. I will profit by your experiences and hardships. Thank you.

Seems I will have to go over to the HD recorder area to check on that. I do not record much, but am interested in its receiving function. I think it would be fair to allow that aspect of the HR to be discussed here.
I still believe in free speech & have pointed out that the interest in the H20 [rec.] & HR20 [recorder] are becoming the same.
I also feel these forums are to help all of us understand [& deal with] DTV's new equipment.
FYI: the H20-100 & H20-600 are receivers [only] & the HR20-700 is the recorder [with receivers in it]. What's in common is their all MPEG-4 & are built to DTV's specs [as apposed to earlier units that worked with DTV].
Questions about specific units [types] might be best posted on their respective forums, [I've been flamed before] but general questions about the "H-20" systems shouldn't be limited to... [just my opinion].

...Questions about specific units [types] might be best posted on their respective forums
I totally agree.

Why? People come to a particular thread like the H20 thread looking for information on a specific piece of equipment. In this case, it's the D* H20 HDTV receiver. It is not a DVR. When people (especially newbies) see discussion of a DVR in this thread, they're thinking hmm, am I in the wrong thread or maybe the H20 is a DVR.

It confuses people to discuss equipment that is not the topic of a thread. And god knows this thread is long enough without off-topic discussion. There is a whole separate section dedicated to discussion of DVRs and similar video recorders.

This may be a repetitive question but I'll ask anyway. With the H20 can I plug my basic cable into the antenna in to get the HD locals? My wife will have a fit if I try to put an outdoor antenna up and D* only has CBS and NBC on the bird here in the Hartford area. I tried a Radio Shack amplified indoor antenna but only was able to get around 50% strength.

This may be a repetitive question but I'll ask anyway. With the H20 can I plug my basic cable into the antenna in to get the HD locals? My wife will have a fit if I try to put an outdoor antenna up and D* only has CBS and NBC on the bird here in the Hartford area. I tried a Radio Shack amplified indoor antenna but only was able to get around 50% strength.
The H20 does not have a QAM tuner in it for cable reception

Thanks, much appreciated.

This may be a repetitive question but I'll ask anyway. With the H20 can I plug my basic cable into the antenna in to get the HD locals? My wife will have a fit if I try to put an outdoor antenna up... QAM cable tuning is not included in the D* H20 satellite receiver. It only has a satellite and 8VSB OTA tuner.

Put up a real antenna. If you can't get permission to put it outdoors where it belongs, put it in the attic. Decent reception may be iffy though, if you have metal siding or roof, or foil-backed insulation in the walls.

See the local info & reception thread for your locale (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45) for the type of antenna that works best in your town. Different areas need different antennas.

I just got an H20 receiver to replace one of my H10 receivers. I have been experiencing the same slow set up for favorites that others have stated elsewhere in this thread. This is frustrating.

However, my real problem is with the OTA setup. Contrary to what others have experienced, the H20 does not seem to pick up as many of the OTA signals as my H10 or my Acurrian receivers can. Also, for the channels I can pick up, I can not get the receiver to recognize OTA from more than two local markets (I get three local markets in South Eastern PA). On my H10, I set up my primary and secondary locals and then do a scan. Stations from the third local market will appear in the local channel list sections and can be set to display. When I toggle thru the channels with the remote I get the third local channels. When I do the same with the H20, I only get the OTA local channels from the primary and secondary. During the scan I can tell that the third OTA local channels are picked up. However, they do not appear in the local channel list and can not be accessed. The H10 will also let me access channels via the remote (For example if I have PA and MD local markets, I can get DC stations by putting in the channel number, 9-1. The H20 will not let me access the DC stations via the remote. I can not put in 9-1 and the 9 display says that the channel is not available.

Is the H20 OTA really better than the H10?

Does anyone know how to access third market locals with the H20?

Any help would be appreciated.

I just got an H20 receiver... However, my real problem is with the OTA setup. Contrary to what others have experienced, the H20 does not seem to pick up as many of the OTA signals as my H10 or my Acurrian receivers can. Any help would be appreciated.
As posted:
The H20-100 isn't as sensitive as the H20-600 for OTA channels.
Three local markets has been a problem. Some have offered work-a-rounds but I don't know if they worked.
Sorry to say, but you might need to review this forum from the beginning to find the answer.

With Ironwood coming out [again] it's time for a reality check [yes, I know I'm screwed up, but it's hopeless so...].
SNAFU, Situation Normal All F---ed Up.
None of my H20s will pass setup. They fail one of the Sat [set for 5 but only pass 4]. D* & Ironwood tell me this is normal.
What's strange is the -100 & -600 don't agree [with each other].
-600 sw 0F12 passes 101 with pwr 67-86, 119 with 59-82, 110 with 74-77. The 99 fails net 10, passes net 11 [neither show transponders], 103 fails net 14 with 85-87 & net 15 with ---.
-100 sw 100C passes 101 with 69-89, 110 with 70-77, 119 with 63-83. The 99 fails net 10 [no tx] net 11 with 80, 92 & 96. 103 passes with net 14 [85-88] & net 15 [no tx].
Can [would] anybody enlighten me as to if this is "normal"?

With Ironwood coming out [again] it's time for a reality check [yes, I know I'm screwed up, but it's hopeless so...].
SNAFU, Situation Normal All F---ed Up.
None of my H20s will pass setup. They fail one of the Sat [set for 5 but only pass 4]. D* & Ironwood tell me this is normal.
What's strange is the -100 & -600 don't agree [with each other].
-600 sw 0F12 passes 101 with pwr 67-86, 119 with 59-82, 110 with 74-77. The 99 fails net 10, passes net 11 [neither show transponders], 103 fails net 14 with 85-87 & net 15 with ---.
-100 sw 100C passes 101 with 69-89, 110 with 70-77, 119 with 63-83. The 99 fails net 10 [no tx] net 11 with 80, 92 & 96. 103 passes with net 14 [85-88] & net 15 [no tx].
Can [would] anybody enlighten me as to if this is "normal"?

When it comes to the 99 and 103 positions if D* doesn't have any of the spot beams fired up to cover your area from SW1 or SW2 then it is possible for you to fail on setup. The key is do you receive all the channels that you should receive, if yes then don't worry about it. When I first got my H20 all Chicago could see was 103 since SW2 wasn't even launched yet.

When it comes to the 99 and 103 positions if D* doesn't have any of the spot beams fired up to cover your area from SW1 or SW2 then it is possible for you to fail on setup. The key is do you receive all the channels that you should receive, if yes then don't worry about it. When I first got my H20 all Chicago could see was 103 since SW2 wasn't even launched yet.
Yes I do get my locals [which was why I bought "their line"]. With the rainy season coming I want to "make sure" as much as I can as to the system's functioning correctly.

But why do the two rec. pass different SATs @ the same time of day?
My -100 passes 103 & fails 99 while my -600 passes 99 & fails 103!

Yes I do get my locals [which was why I bought "their line"]. With the rainy season coming I want to "make sure" as much as I can as to the system's functioning correctly.

But why do the two rec. pass different SATs @ the same time of day?
My -100 passes 103 & fails 99 while my -600 passes 99 & fails 103!

Since they are two different boxes with two different software versions that could be the cause. My H20-600 shows nothing on 99 at all but my HR20's show one transponder on 99.

Since they are two different boxes with two different software versions that could be the cause. My H20-600 shows nothing on 99 at all but my HR20's show one transponder on 99.
Since I thought the idea of the H20 was "standardization" for D* & their troubleshooting, this doesn't make a lot of sense [to me].

Does anybody else have any ideas why the 99 & 103 [pass/fail] is opposite between the two H20 models?

The GUI and remote were standarized. But the H20-100 and H20-600 do have differences in performance and operation.

i have a question....if i buy a h20 off ebay, will i have to reup my contract with directv? i am trying to decide if i should go to best buy right now and buy one, or get one off ebay and wait

i have a question....if i buy a h20 off ebay, will i have to reup my contract with directv? i am trying to decide if i should go to best buy right now and buy one, or get one off ebay and wait
Activating any "new" units [to your account] will be "leased" & there's a two year programing commitment [from everything I've fought over with D*].
Given the facts [as I know them], I don't see any reason to use ebay, when you can get D* to "upgrade" [install a new unit] for free [with some haggling].
They won't budge from the two year commitment [I've beat them to death over it].
If you go & buy it at best buy, there are "reports" of them crediting your account for the cost.
This seem to nullify any market [on ebay or anywhere else] for used H20 units. [This is just my opinion/observation.]

thanks, thats what i thought

Do not buy an H20 on ebay. You can do better through D* customer retention 800 824-9081 by threatening to switch to cable or dish network if they want to charge you for an H20. You can get one through D* or get a billing credit if you purchase one at a local retailer.

Do not buy an H20 on ebay. You can do better through D* customer retention 800 824-9081 by threatening to switch to cable or dish network if they want to charge you for an H20. You can get one through D* or get a billing credit if you purchase one at a local retailer.


True, my old RCA 210 was not pulling in OTA channels anymore, got the H20 for free. Unfornutely it was a H20-100 and tomorrow will be replaced for the third time. Try to get the H20-600 instead, according to the installer, that is the LG version. The H20 i have got doesn't pull in VHF at all even though the signal is there at the connnection and has been over heating big time causing a shutdown.

True, my old RCA 210 was not pulling in OTA channels anymore, got the H20 for free. Unfornutely it was a H20-100 and tomorrow will be replaced for the third time. Try to get the H20-600 instead, according to the installer, that is the LG version. The H20 i have got doesn't pull in VHF at all even though the signal is there at the connnection and has been over heating big time causing a shutdown.
To my knowledge, the H20 series doesn't have an analog receiver [VHF]. Over heating is not a common problem with the -100 since it runs much cooler than the -600 [which runs almost too hot to touch]. It sounds like there isn't enough air flow to the unit. I have my -100 under my TV [enclosed with limited air] an it doesn't seem to get warm at all. If I were to put my -600 there I'm sure I would have [over heating] problems since it can't get enough air [to be cool to the touch] out in the "open air".

To my knowledge, the H20 series doesn't have an analog receiver [VHF]. Over heating is not a common problem with the -100 since it runs much cooler than the -600 [which runs almost too hot to touch]. It sounds like there isn't enough air flow to the unit. I have my -100 under my TV [enclosed with limited air] an it doesn't seem to get warm at all. If I were to put my -600 there I'm sure I would have [over heating] problems since it can't get enough air [to be cool to the touch] out in the "open air".

I understand the analog part, our Local HD channels come in on both VHF and UHF. So for me to not have VHF cuts out 3 channels for sure. I thought that a ATSC tuner picks up both VHF and UHF.

In my case the unit is by itself with a fan pulling out the air. I don't stack units as this would cause problems. My unit runs at about 116 degrees, then shuts off by itself.

I understand the analog part, our Local HD channels come in on both VHF and UHF. So for me to not have VHF cuts out 3 channels for sure. I thought that a ATSC tuner picks up both VHF and UHF.

In my case the unit is by itself with a fan pulling out the air. I don't stack units as this would cause problems. My unit runs at about 116 degrees, then shuts off by itself.
No ATSC doesn't pick up NTSC channels.
116 degrees is too warm for either H20 units. With enough air flow, my -600 runs @ 95-105 degrees. So I would look to find the source of the "over heating". My PC doesn't like it went I use my wood stove.

I understand the analog part, our Local HD channels come in on both VHF and UHF. So for me to not have VHF cuts out 3 channels for sure. I thought that a ATSC tuner picks up both VHF and UHF.

In my case the unit is by itself with a fan pulling out the air. I don't stack units as this would cause problems. My unit runs at about 116 degrees, then shuts off by itself.

AFAIK, the H20 is not a "UHF Only" receiver. In our area, the VHF stations (analog) are actually transmitting their digital signals on UHF freqs, even though the H20 remaps them to a VHF channel number. If your OTA antenna was connected to the H20 during set-up, it should have found all local channels, whether UHF or VHF.

The temp of your unit sounds like you have a -600 unit. That's the one most folks have had a problem with running hot. Don't remember any other poster having that complaint about the -100. The -600 is supposed to have a more sensitive ATSC tuner than the -100 however.

Carl

AFAIK, the H20 is not a "UHF Only" receiver. In our area, the VHF stations (analog) are actually transmitting their digital signals on UHF freqs, even though the H20 remaps them to a VHF channel number. If your OTA antenna was connected to the H20 during set-up, it should have found all local channels, whether UHF or VHF.

The temp of your unit sounds like you have a -600 unit. That's the one most folks have had a problem with running hot. Don't remember any other poster having that complaint about the -100. The -600 is supposed to have a more sensitive ATSC tuner than the -100 however.

Carl

According to Directv, the H20-100 (am looking at it right now) should get both VHF and UHF Digital OTA signals. Like you say above. As an example, our local HD NBC channel is 3-1 remapped to 2 (vhf) and our CBS HD is 19-1 remapped to 10 (vhf) also. This is confirmed by Antennaweb.org also. The installer i spoke with last week, has had this problem on 2 other machines so far, (problem being no VHF pick up). Part of the problem is the machine will go into a system test mode after rebooting and show a "Tuner Failure" on the screen. I am guessing that it is the VHF part that has failed because i always get the UHF channels perfectly.

According to Directv, the H20-100 (am looking at it right now) should get both VHF and UHF Digital OTA signals. Like you say above. As an example, our local HD NBC channel is 3-1 remapped to 2 (vhf) and our CBS HD is 19-1 remapped to 10 (vhf) also. This is confirmed by Antennaweb.org also. The installer i spoke with last week, has had this problem on 2 other machines so far, (problem being no VHF pick up). Part of the problem is the machine will go into a system test mode after rebooting and show a "Tuner Failure" on the screen. I am guessing that it is the VHF part that has failed because i always get the UHF channels perfectly.
I always like to learn more... I've never connected VHF to my units.
You posted your "problem" was with two units & you're waiting for a third?
I'm not sure it's a "unit problem" since most of the time, a unit defect doesn't repeat & this suggests [to me] a "system" problem.

I always like to learn more... I've never connected VHF to my units.
You posted your "problem" was with two units & you're waiting for a third?
I'm not sure it's a "unit problem" since most of the time, a unit defect doesn't repeat & this suggests [to me] a "system" problem.

no problem, i'm the same way. the first unit would not allow any setup whatsoever. After i entered my zip code, that was it. Never got past that point. That was a H20-100 unit. The second one (currently hooked up) is the unit that is very hot (at least according to my digital thermometer we use in the electrical business checking for hot spots in buildings. It is this unit that i am unable to receive any of my VHF signals. I just had a new antenna installed about two months ago, so i called them out for service thinking it was the antenna. There is a signal coming into my H20, what happens after that is a guess. We disconnect that feed and plug it into my RCA 210, works fine on VHF and UHF HD Digital channels (like its supposed too). We reconnect that feed again back to the H20-100 to get no VHF, just UHF. so its not a equipment issue. Last week they suggested that i rotate the antenna so as to reduce the signal on VHF, no difference. Still nothing. This unit has always had a TUNER failure message when i try to download the locals. My hope tomorrow when the Directv Tech comes out again, is that he fixes it, or replaces the unit completely. The H20-100 is an RCA unit, it is also the first generation, whereas the H20-600 is the latest generation.

ps. We as a last resort "borrowed" my friends Sony HD TV has has a ATSC tuner built into it, (cost me some beers when we carried it over) when my antenna feed is hooked up, perfect, both VHF and UHF with great signal.

Digital television broadcasts are on both VHF (channels 2 thru 13) and UHF (channels 14 thru 69) in some areas. Digital does NOT mean UHF. Go to antennaweb.org for the RF channel numbers in your area.

In my area we have one digital station broadcasting on VHF channel 9 and another one will be moving from channel 52 to channel 10 in 2009. Las Vegas has FOUR VHF digital channels.

The H20 has a VHF and UHF digital tuner that tunes over-the-air digital channels 2 thru 69. It does NOT have an analog over-the-air tuner.

Digital television broadcasts are on both VHF (channels 2 thru 13) and UHF (channels 14 thru 69) in some areas. Digital does NOT mean UHF. Go to antennaweb.org for the RF channel numbers in your area.

In my area we have one digital station broadcasting on VHF channel 9 and another one will be moving from channel 52 to channel 10 in 2009. Las Vegas has FOUR VHF digital channels.

The H20 has a VHF and UHF digital tuner that tunes over-the-air digital channels 2 thru 69. It does NOT have an analog over-the-air tuner.
I sure don't know everything, and I thought digital channels were all in the UHF band & part of the change over was to free up the VHF band for other uses [or is this just the 2-6 channel band of VHF]?

I sure don't know everything, and I thought digital channels were all in the UHF band & part of the change over was to free up the VHF band for other uses [or is this just the 2-5 channel band of VHF]?

In the OLD days, VHF channels were very strong in reception, and the UHF channels were tough to lock onto. A typical antenna would always get VHF from a greater distance than UHF. Even though 2009, all analog will disappear, it is still a way's off and things can change again. Our local NBC Digital is really 3 (analog), 3-1, 3-2, and 3-3 (kind of like a weather channel, just more cheesy). During the Olympics, each channel had a different event on which was great.

47 years old and still learning.

SN

47 years old and still learning. SN
56 years & still....
VHF is a lower frequency therefore longer wavelength which has a lot to do with distance & antenna gain, etc....

I sure don't know everything, and I thought digital channels were all in the UHF band & part of the change over was to free up the VHF band for other uses [or is this just the 2-6 channel band of VHF]?

I think the FCC and private industries recognized back in the late 80s that the whole television frequency allocation is highly inefficient and based on old technology. The wireless technologies and public safety have been lobbying intensely for 20 years for a redistribution of the television allocations. The whole high definition/ATSC project was based on the FCC's desire to use this reason to reallocate the television frequencies and stop this incredible waste of valuable national resources.

The FCC decision for final shutdown of NTSC in 2009 is the culmination of 20 years of effort. It is actually the higher UHF frequencies from 500 to 800 that is most highly coveted by public safety and other industries. The VHF bands pale in value compared to them.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/tvfreqtable.html

The FCC decision for final shutdown of NTSC in 2009 is the culmination of 20 years of effort. It is actually the higher UHF frequencies from 500 to 800 that is most highly coveted by public safety and other industries. The VHF bands pale in value compared to them.
Thanks for the info, so what are the frequencies for ATSC ?

Thanks for the info, so what are the frequencies for ATSC ?


Another example is CBS NTSC channel 11 in DFW. Their digital channel is 19. After the mandatory shutdown of their analog channel in 2009, they are returning back to channel 11.

Thanks for the info, so what are the frequencies for ATSC ?

I get a kick out of you kids!

ATSC (Advanced Television Systems Committee) and NTSC (National Television System Committee) specify the formulation of the signal, NOT the frequency at which it is transmitted.

Both ATSC and NTSC stations transmit in the same frequency ranges (VAV: 54 - 88, and 174 - 216 Mhz, UHF: 470 - 890 Mhz). Note that the FM radio band (88 - 108 Mhz) falls between channels 6 & 7, which is why it sometimes causes interference with analog TV.

I get a kick out of you kids!
I guess I should enjoy this after being called "old timer" on the other forum.
So "at the end of the day" our digital TV signals will occupy the same spectrum [as before] with maybe less if the FCC gets their wish?

I guess I should enjoy this after being called "old timer" on the other forum.
So "at the end of the day" our digital TV signals will occupy the same spectrum [as before] with maybe less if the FCC their wish?

Yes digital channel allocations will occupy many of the same analog channels, just fewer of them.

Newman (from Seinfeld?) was so condescending in his post I thought I would point out a mistake in his 4 sentence post that only someone who does not know what he is talking about would make. FM signals can cause intererence on digital channels AND analog channels. It does manifest itself differently but interference is interference. Digital channels 4 and 5 will still be subject to interference from FM broadcast and the 35 and 40 MHz bands, just like they always have.

. . . FM signals can cause intererence on digital channels AND analog channels. . . . .

Bill, you're absolutely correct -- the interference from the FM band is frequency related, not analog/digital related. But you did miss where I hit the "Accept" button instead of "Ignore" on the spell check! (VAV: 54 - 88, . . ).

Maybe I should make longer posts?

Carl

The price of free speech is tolerance...
Exchanging good information seems like a good reason to post [I too can get a little "pissy" at times & need to always work on it].

...So "at the end of the day" our digital TV signals will occupy the same spectrum [as before] with maybe less if the FCC gets their wish?Currently, they occupy the exact same channel bands as analog television. IOW, channels 2 thru 69. Analog TV always needed channel spacing to prevent interference. Usually, there weren't channels assigned in the same market adjacent to each other (e.g. channel 11 and channel 12). With digital, channel spacing isn't required, so there can be channels 10, 11, 12 & 13 in the same coverage area.

Because of this, the number of channels needed will be less with digital than with analog, and after analog is shut down, channels 52 thru 69 will be vacated by broadcast TV.

So, after analog is gone, the US TV channel band will be:
Channels 2 thru 51.

the number of channels needed will be less with digital than with analog, and after analog is shut down, channels 52 thru 69 will be vacated by broadcast TV.
So, after analog is gone, the US TV channel band will be:
channels 2 thru 51 channels
Thank you for your good information.

Currently, they occupy the exact same channel bands as analog television. IOW, channels 2 thru 69. Analog TV always needed channel spacing to prevent interference. Usually, there weren't channels assigned in the same market adjacent to each other (e.g. channel 11 and channel 12). With digital, channel spacing isn't required, so there can be channels 10, 11, 12 & 13 in the same coverage area.

Because of this, the number of channels needed will be less with digital than with analog, and after analog is shut down, channels 52 thru 69 will be vacated by broadcast TV.

So, after analog is gone, the US TV channel band will be:
Channels 2 thru 51.

I thought I had read where future digital channel usage was up to the individual stations, that is some would revert to the old VHF allocation where others would remain on UHF.

While it is true that digital is less prone to interference as the information is contained in a frequency change as opposed to a amplitude change. Adjacent channel interference is not eliminated however it is dependent on the receiver's front end selectivity and the ratio of desired vs undesired signal strength.

I thought I had read where future digital channel usage was up to the individual stations, that is some would revert to the old VHF allocation where others would remain on UHF.

It is an option for the station. Here is the current FCC database of opted for channel allocations.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-1082A2.xls

I thought I had read where future digital channel usage was up to the individual stations, that is some would revert to the old VHF allocation where others would remain on UHF.This is true. A lot of stations will go back to their original channel assignment. Most of these will be stations assigned temporary UHF channels for digital. Highband VHF (chs 7 thru 13) are sought after because they can get roughly the same coverage as a UHF station using a fraction of the transmitter power. Electricity cost is a huge expense for tv stations.

In the two main OTA markets I watch, one station chose to go back to their analog channel assignment on VHF channel 10, when analog shuts down in '09. After analog shuts down, in my area there will be two digital channels in high VHF band; one on channel 9 and one on channel 10. The rest will be in the UHF band.

Most stations have chosen to not return to lowband VHF (channels 2 thru 6), due to interference problems that make it a less desirable band for digital TV.

Most of these will be stations assigned temporary UHF channels for digital. Highband VHF (chs 7 thru 13) are sought after because they can get roughly the same coverage as a UHF station using a fraction of the transmitter power. Electricity cost is a huge expense for tv stations.

There is a tradeoff between UHF and VHF. VHF (lower frequencies) has a tendency to travel farther and follow the earth's curvature giving the station a larger geographical footprint. However UHF (higher frequencies) tend to not follow the earth's curvature but the smaller wavelenth penetrates buildings with less attenuation. The point is that there is no consensus among legacy VHF stations about which way to go.

As a case in point, in the DFW area ABC channel 8 and CBS channel 11 are electing to keep their VHF channels after 2009. However, Fox channel 4 and NBC channel 5 are giving up and going to channel 35 and 41.

... in the DFW area ABC channel 8 and CBS channel 11 are electing to keep their VHF channels after 2009. However, Fox channel 4 and NBC channel 5 are giving up and going to channel 35 and 41.Probably because channels 8 and 11 are in the desirable high VHF band. Channels 4 and 5 are in the interference-prone low VHF band that includes channels 2 thru 6, and have proven problematic for digital TV.

Also, lowband VHF requires a huge antenna for outdoor, or rabbbit ear dipoles extended several feet for good indoor reception. Highband VHF 7 thru 13 can often be received with many UHF antennas, or indoor dipoles of only a few inches in length.

Probably because channels 8 and 11 are in the desirable high VHF band. Channels 4 and 5 are in the interference-prone low VHF band that includes channels 2 thru 6 that have proven problematic for digital TV.

Also, lowband VHF requires a huge antenna for outdoor, or rabbbit ear dipoles extended several feet for good indoor reception. Highband VHF 7 thru 13 can often be received with many UHF antennas, or indoor dipoles of only a few inches in length.

Possibly. It's hard to tell since management at channels 4 and 5 do not make the rationale for their decisions readily available to the public. However, VHF highband channels 7, 9, 10, and 12 are available in the DFW area. If VHF high band were that much more desirable than UHF they would have chosen one of those, or even a lower UHF frequency than 35 and 41. My speculations is that the reason for 35 and 41 choice is that they preferred the building penetration advantages of the higher frequencies.

In addition, channel 13 in DFW (VHF highband 210 MHz) is electing to go to channel 14 (UHF 470 MHz). That would make no sense if VHF highband were that much better in all cases.

This is good stuff, but I've learned [in my life] logic doesn't always account for management's decisions [bean counters & the like can skew "what makes sense"].

Does anybody know when new software for the 600 series is going to be released. I was told late Sept or early Oct by DTV and have not seen it yet

Does anybody know when new software for the 600 series is going to be released. I was told late Sept or early Oct by DTV and have not seen it yet

What are you looking to be fixed on your 600?

...VHF highband channels 7, 9, 10, and 12 are available in the DFW area.They may be vacant but that doesn't necessarily mean they are available.

Quicker guide,stop the occasional rebooting on certain OTA channels

Talked w/ customer service yesterday and they are still saying 'sometime in October' for the mythical software update. I'm now rebooting every 5 minutes - using component connection only, no OTA hooked up, fan on top for cooling etc. - and will happen on SD and HD channels. Weird thing is that my other H20 is fine - no problems at all....

You guys have -600s...get it swapped out for a new one from D*. You will get a -100, which does not have these problems. I just swapped last week...the only negative is that the OTA reception performance is just enough lower on the -100 vs the -600 that my Fox is a little spotty at times. (Still much better than my Sammy TS-360 POS.)

Talked w/ customer service yesterday and they are still saying 'sometime in October' for the mythical software update. I'm now rebooting every 5 minutes - using component connection only, no OTA hooked up, fan on top for cooling etc. - and will happen on SD and HD channels. Weird thing is that my other H20 is fine - no problems at all....
Which model H20 is this?
I have both the -600 & -100 & [they] seem to be working well. As [posted] the -600 runs hotter [95-105 degrees with thermometer on top of my unit] than the -100. The guide does seem to "work better" with the -100 & the -600 has better OTA sensitivity. Other than this & an anomaly with setup & sat 99 & 103 [as posted] they are working fine.
If you are having the troubles you've stated, I don't think there is any "magic software" that will resolve what looks like bad hardware [to me].

Talked w/ customer service yesterday and they are still saying 'sometime in October' for the mythical software update. I'm now rebooting every 5 minutes - using component connection only, no OTA hooked up, fan on top for cooling etc. - and will happen on SD and HD channels. Weird thing is that my other H20 is fine - no problems at all....

There is no update coming that will stop a unit from resetting every 5 minutes. Just call them and swap it out. They will send you another one overnight delivery with a free box and free return postage.

I recently called to get a dead H20-100 replaced. They replaced it with an H20-600. It does not run excessively hot and never reboots. And the OTA tuner is superior to the -100.

Fastest way to get a replacement is to call D* and tell them your H20 is too hot to touch on top.

I sure hope "they" got the message [after the three of us said the same thing with our own insights].

You're in the wrong thread. This thread is about the H20 receiver. It is not a DVR.

Try the HDTV Recorder threads HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=42).

I recently set up a new H20 with an OTA antenna. When shifting from the analog to digital channels, i.e. channel 7 to 7-1, there is a significant change in audio volume. I have the H20 connected to my stereo receiver via the optical connection.

Is there a H20 setup somewhere I missed that I could use to equalize these levels.

I get some multipath when airplanes fly over head and sometimes want to switch back to the analog channel for the video and the jump in audio level is annoying.

Thanks, tried to search the thread but did not see anything mentioned.

My audio goes way down when I go to a 5-1 or sp on. It seems to almost shut off and I have to turn the volume way up.

I recently set up a new H20 with an OTA antenna. When shifting from the analog to digital channels, i.e. channel 7 to 7-1, there is a significant change in audio volume. I have the H20 connected to my stereo receiver via the optical connection.
Is there a H20 setup somewhere I missed that I could use to equalize these levels.
I don't think you "missed anything" in setup. I too have a volume change when changing from D* to OTA channels. I "think" this is because everybody is still sorting through HDTV. Have you notice the "Today" show? Their sound [in HD] is "all over the map" as NBC [local] changes over to network feed.

Part of the difference in sound levels may just be the nature of analog vs digital. Digital has a much greater dynamic range, so the difference between soft and LOUD sounds is much greater with digital sound than with analog.

There is no sound leveling option in the H20. Turning off Dolby Digital sound may help decrease the differences between analog and digital stations, but not much. Run analog Audio L+R cables between the H20 and your sound system and turn off DD to see if that helps.

If your sound system has a sound leveling option (a.k.a. "night" option), also try enabling that. Or if your TV has a "smart sound" or 'auto-level" sound option, try running the H20 audio through your television and then on to the sound system.

What antenna are you using that is causing dropouts w/ airplane flyovers?

I don't think you "missed anything" in setup. I too have a volume change when changing from D* to OTA channels. I "think" this is because everybody is still sorting through HDTV. Have you notice the "Today" show? Their sound [in HD] is "all over the map" as NBC [local] changes over to network feed.

There isn't much you can do, some of the TV stations don't seem to pay much attention to digital commercial vs program audio levels yet. I tried using compression on the Yamaha and ran into distortion at some frequencies. Some of the stations are better than six months ago. I just chase the volume control levels and wait for broadcasters to get with it. It happens on OTH as well as DTV.

I have a H20-100 and an One-For-All multi-remote. I can program the Vizio TV and the Philips DVD Player and the Pioneer A/V Receiver, but can't program in the H20. Does anyone know the code needed to make the One-For-All work. The H20 can run the Vizio, but can't shut it off. The H20 can do the Philips DVD, but it can't do the A/V Receiver.

I have a H20-100 and an One-For-All multi-remote. I can program the Vizio TV and the Philips DVD Player and the Pioneer A/V Receiver, but can't program in the H20. Does anyone know the code needed to make the One-For-All work. The H20 can run the Vizio, but can't shut it off. The H20 can do the Philips DVD, but it can't do the A/V Receiver.

if you have a one for all remote, depending on model you can use JP1 to upload a code that will control the H20. i use one a URC-8811 to control my entier HT.