Everyone and their cousin now makes these combo decks. This year none have HD tuners built-in that can actually output, at least while not recording, any HD resolution quality (720 or 1080). :mad: I'm holding off til next year when it's rumored they will, due to a new chip that can simultaneously downres the HD signal for DVD recording and output it un-scathed in HD quality.

I prefer my VCR and disc drive to be in separate boxes. VCR's are on their way out but disc drives change year after year: CD,CDR,CDRW,CDR MP3,DVD,DVDR+/-RW,RAM,BLURAY,HD-DVD,DTS,HDMI,DVD-AUDIO,HDMI1.3,etc.....The point is you'll need a new one soon enough but the VCR part can stay put. In summary, inter-changeable parts are always a good idea. Do you buy a new car when the AC breaks?

Everyone and their cousin now makes these combo decks. This year none have HD tuners built-in that can actually output, at least while not recording, any HD resolution quality (720 or 1080). :mad: I'm holding off til next year when it's rumored they will, due to a new chip that can simultaneously downres the HD signal for DVD recording and output it un-scathed in HD quality.

I prefer my VCR and disc drive to be in separate boxes. VCR's are on their way out but disc drives change year after year: CD,CDR,CDRW,CDR MP3,DVD,DVDR+/-RW,RAM,BLURAY,HD-DVD,DTS,HDMI,DVD-AUDIO,HDMI1.3,etc.....The point is you'll need a new one soon enough but the VCR part can stay put. In summary, inter-changeable parts are always a good idea. Do you buy a new car when the AC breaks?


Thank you for your thoughts. And no, I wouldn't buy a new car because of bad AC, and that was kind of an absurd question, IMO. I do have a good idea about what I want to do with it, and the space I have available in my setup. I know I don't have enough room for a DVR and a VCR, and this would solve that problem. I don't see it as an ongoing thing, ie for years and years, as I only havre so much VHS that I would want to transfer. But it also is enough that I wouldn't be able to knock it all out by "temporarily" dragging the VCR I have into the living room and dubbing it in a matter of days. It'll probably take me close to a year, depending on how much free time I have. I also like the idea of having an upconverting DVD player, as mine is only progressive scan at the moment. Like I said, I will probably be done with the tape transfers in a year or so, and I could then probably replace it with the latest, maybe a BR or what ever finally floats to the top, if one ever does.

So basically, I like the size savings of a dual player, and the upconverting is a nice bonus. If the VCR part lasts a year or a little more, that is all that I ask of it.

So again, anybody with any input/thoughts?

And no, I wouldn't buy a new car because of bad AC, and that was kind of an absurd question, IMO.
It was rhetorical.

You never mentioned in your query that saving space was one of your objectives. Now that I know that I can confidently say that an all in one combo unit is the way to go. They are definitely more compact and require less wiring, too. Good luck.

It was rhetorical.

You never mentioned in your query that saving space was one of your objectives. Now that I know that I can confidently say that an all in one combo unit is the way to go. They are definitely more compact and require less wiring, too. Good luck.

You're right, I should havwe mentioned that. I'm not a big fan of combo units myself, (everything else I own is a seperate component) but in this situation, it really does seem to be the ticket for me.

But with that said, if there are no combo units that are really worth anything, and I can find a good standalone unit, I'll just drag my VCR in and hook it up whenever I want to do any transferring, but I am hoping to avoid that.

You're right, I should havwe mentioned that. I'm not a big fan of combo units myself, (everything else I own is a seperate component) but in this situation, it really does seem to be the ticket for me.

But with that said, if there are no combo units that are really worth anything, and I can find a good standalone unit, I'll just drag my VCR in and hook it up whenever I want to do any transferring, but I am hoping to avoid that.

I have been playing around with combo units for the same reason you are, to preserve my VHS tapes. One problem is they will not copy commercial tapes, they will not even start the record. Also, some of my tapes have deteriorated, so I want to do some processing to make them look better. For at least one of the combos, it did not seem to be possible to record a DVD from a tape playing in the VCR using the external S-Video connections. Also, it was pretty easy to make costers going direct from tape to DVD, I would recommend a DVD recorder with a HDD. Copy to the HDD, then record to the DVD. Given all this, I have decided to go with separate components.

I want to thank the forum members for the tips which led me buy the Philips 3575RDVD H and to set the pan and scan option for viewing OTA digital TV on my 4x3 analogue TV. I was about to return the Philips DVD3575R H because of the sound and picture screen size degradation of the unit when used to accomplish digital reception as a set top box was disappointing to me. With pan and scan I am now able to get digital programs broadcast in 4x3 to fill the entire screen so my 32 inch screen does not effectively become a 26 inch screen.

I bought the DVD recorder to time shift programming, to eliminate commercials which have become really annoying since some are broadcast at painfully high volume and to resolve the problem that my old set top box for some reason was trasmitting PBS in black and white and not color. The Philips does meet my expectations for fixing these issues.

My only disappoinment at this time is that the Philips degrades 5.1 audio to 2 channel stereo. I can use my amplifier to process the audio as Pro logic. But I am unhappy the Philips does not pass thru the 5.1. I understand the protection of intellectual property and I am OK with 5.1 not being recorded to disk, but I would like Philips to fix the pass thru issue.

In summary, thanks to the forum for patiently helping me understand the work arounds and limitations of current DVD recorders.

Also, people with cable and with HDTV sets may have issues that are not my issues. My desires and experiences may not fit you.

I have a Dish Vip622 HD Dvr. I appear to not have enough inputs on the DVR to connect, per instructions on this site, and in the manual from Panny ES45V, dvd/vhs recorder. I have an available s video for the picture, but the only available RCA inputs for sound appear to be for tv2, which is also serviced by the DVR connected to tv1. Main reason I purchased to the recorder was to be able to record from the DVR to the DVD recorder. an anyone help. Thanks, Y

I have a Dish Vip622 HD Dvr. I appear to not have enough inputs on the DVR to connect, per instructions on this site, and in the manual from Panny ES45V, dvd/vhs recorder. I have an available s video for the picture, but the only available RCA inputs for sound appear to be for tv2, which is also serviced by the DVR connected to tv1. Main reason I purchased to the recorder was to be able to record from the DVR to the DVD recorder. an anyone help. Thanks, Y

If you want to record FROM the dish 622 to the Panny, you need to use the OUTPUTS of the dish 622 to the inputs of the panny.

Hi again, all.

I ended up picking up a Toshiba (stand alone recorder, no VCR included) that will record for me, and also playback upscaled. My question, and I've searched the site for the answer but couldn't find it, is if I record in the two hour mode (SP I think, I am at work and can't verify it, but I am talking about the two hour mode) will that record all of the quality that a Hi8 tape gives? IOW, am I losing picture quality that way, should I switch to the 1 hour mode? (XP?)

Anybody have a quick answer on that? I would prefer to use SP mode, as a lot of my tapes are 2 hours, but I went Hi8 for a reason 15 years ago, to get that extra quality, and I don't want to cheat myself.

Thank you.

I'm no expert but I think the 2hour mode is at least equal to Hi8. It should rival Dig8.

Sp - 2hour mode is full frame 720x480. I don't think the cameras shoot that kind of frame size do they?

I use SP all the time. You should be good. test record and compare it.
Rob

Hi again, all.

I ended up picking up a Toshiba (stand alone recorder, no VCR included) that will record for me, and also playback upscaled. My question, and I've searched the site for the answer but couldn't find it, is if I record in the two hour mode (SP I think, I am at work and can't verify it, but I am talking about the two hour mode) will that record all of the quality that a Hi8 tape gives? IOW, am I losing picture quality that way, should I switch to the 1 hour mode? (XP?)

Anybody have a quick answer on that? I would prefer to use SP mode, as a lot of my tapes are 2 hours, but I went Hi8 for a reason 15 years ago, to get that extra quality, and I don't want to cheat myself.

Thank you.
You'll have to decide this for yourself. The more the video is compressed the lesser the quality. But 2-hour mode is pretty good so that may satisfy you. If you keep your Hi8 tapes there may be a day when you want to transfer them to something better than video DVD. In the meanwhile your DVD provides more convenient playback plus a backup.

Sorry, bad news, 1 hr mode is better but only slightly. It's not a resolution issue but more an accumulation of noise and mpeg compression artefacts as you bounce a video signal from device to device via an analog path. The 2hr mode is handy though and you'll have to try it to see. Most DVD recorders I've owned will let you see the loss of quality even without recording. Just put the deck in "monitor mode" (kind of like record pause) and look at your best monitor as you switch between the different record speeds on the fly.

Okay, I swapped out my cablecard for an HD STB (Cox) yesterday. I tried to record some 16:9 last night with no luck. The wife's not gonna put up with the living room being a shambles for long.

I have the Sony gx300. The stb is *I think* model # 4240 (they said it was a new model). S-vid from the stb to the 300, component to the tv.

Can you record 16:9 with Sci Atl? Do I need the DVR model, as opposed to just the stb? There were settings for resolution, type of tv (16:9) & some setting where pass-through/upconvert 1 & 2 were options but I couldn't find anything about setting the S-vid output to 16:9.

I just looked through this entire thread reading everything that looked hopeful, I promise. :)

Update: I made progress last night but I'm not sure if I'm 100% there. I have a Sony xbr960 and after setting the 'rec mode' setting on the 300 to 16:9 (thanks to whomever posted that) the tv was showing the source as being 480i, 16:9.

Here's what I'm not sure on. When I play the recording (16:9 AR) the tv goes to 'full' mode and the image is correct horiz. but is squeezed vert. with black bars. If I change the tv setting to 'zoom' it unsqueezes vert. to a full 16:9 image. Is that how it's supposed to work? :confused:

ok might be a dumb question, i have been reading but haven't found a simple solution. ok here goes first i am sorry if this have already been answered. do the dvd recorders only record OTA station or can you record from a hi def sat box like the h20 that (has the converter in the back) <-- the new dtv hd upgrade. thx in advance

The HR 20 has 480i video outputs. Connect your DVD recorder to those and record everything you desire. You will get 4:3 letterboxed 480i video from the HD channels. I don't have a HR 20 so don't know what happens when you set its component video output to 480i and record via component to a capable DVD recorder. You may be able to record anamorphic 16:9 from HD channels, or not.

The HR 20 has 480i video outputs. Connect your DVD recorder to those and record everything you desire. You will get 4:3 letterboxed 480i video from the HD channels. I don't have a HR 20 so don't know what happens when you set its component video output to 480i and record via component to a capable DVD recorder. You may be able to record anamorphic 16:9 from HD channels, or not.thx alot.

I saw a Panasonic DMR-EZ47V combo DVDR/VHS at Best Buy the other day and it had an advertising sticker, printed by Panasonic, not Best Buy, in which the very first bullet point bragged, (and this is a direct quote), "Record one TV program while viewing another". So at first I thought, wow, so dual tuner units have finally arrived, but then I thought about it. Those FRIGGEN B*STARDS mean the single tuner that it has can record one TV program while you watch a video tape (or DVDR) of a TV show you recorded, say, last year on the other drive! THOSE BAST*RDS! This is extremely deceptive on their part and their reputation just took a nose dive in my book.:mad: There's a clear implication that the two TV shows it's talking about are live , yet they both aren't. Jerks.

Thank you.

I am sure that there are many HR10-250 Tivo users here, can anybody add on to this?The DirecTivo HR10-250, Tivo Series3, and TivoHD all will output anamorphic SD through composite and s-video.

Hi again, all.

I ended up picking up a Toshiba (stand alone recorder, no VCR included) that will record for me, and also playback upscaled.

Sorry, I got to this thread too late to influence your decision. I would have recommended the Panasonic DMR-EZ47VK. I have the two-year old version of this model, but its features now include:

VCR-DVD Recorder combo (one touch VHS->DVD conversions).

Excellent quality recording DVDs at the LP (4 hr) mode (500 lines vs. 250).

Upscaling DVD playback to 1080p - HDMI output.

Easy front panel set of connections (including S-Video) in addition to back panel.

Real-time variable bit-rate recording.

and now with additional features:

ATSC tuner (digital).

DivX playback.

For the price, I have been very happy with my machine, and I was not in the market to purchase a DVD recorder with Hard Disk. My DirecTV HD-DVR HR20-700 is a great companion piece to making recordings of HDTV content to DVD (and then using my computer to rip the DVDs for transfer to my Apple TV). Only for a few instances do I use my ADS Tech Instant DVD (for Mac) digitizer box to create MPEG-2 instead of the Panny DVD recorder (but the Panny is much more convenient): 1) in higher quality; 2) with better pre-record quality adjustments as a digitizer; and 3) to edit out content from within the program (such as commercials).

I simply would like to burn my dv tapes . My computer will not see my camcorder unless it is in the "sill' mode. I have tried 3 dvd recorders.. granted .. cheap, and have not been able to get them to initialize the disc(s).

Why is it so hard to just make copies of my dv tapes. Camcorder, canon elura 65.

Sorry, I got to this thread too late to influence your decision. I would have recommended the Panasonic DMR-EZ47VK. I have the two-year old version of this model, but its features now include:

VCR-DVD Recorder combo (one touch VHS->DVD conversions).

Excellent quality recording DVDs at the LP (4 hr) mode (500 lines vs. 250).

Upscaling DVD playback to 1080p - HDMI output.

Easy front panel set of connections (including S-Video) in addition to back panel.

Real-time variable bit-rate recording.

and now with additional features:

ATSC tuner (digital).

DivX playback.

For the price, I have been very happy with my machine, and I was not in the market to purchase a DVD recorder with Hard Disk. My DirecTV HD-DVR HR20-700 is a great companion piece to making recordings of HDTV content to DVD (and then using my computer to rip the DVDs for transfer to my Apple TV). Only for a few instances do I use my ADS Tech Instant DVD (for Mac) digitizer box to create MPEG-2 instead of the Panny DVD recorder (but the Panny is much more convenient): 1) in higher quality; 2) with better pre-record quality adjustments as a digitizer; and 3) to edit out content from within the program (such as commercials).

i just picked up what may be the current model.
dmr ez47v

the trouble i'm having is i'm trying to record from comcast moto dvr 6412 older model.
i can get the thing to be fine length wise but i cant get it to stretch the top and bottom to go all the way up or down.

looks squished.

i've tried every setting and combo of hdmi, s-vid to composite connections to no avail.

this is just doing pass through, not using the tuner.

i cant get the channels i need to record, using the tuner.
these channels being the dig hd channels such as tbs hd and comcast philly hd.

i know i cannot get actual hd i just want the wide screen version and not the standard(full) analog channels broadcast.

and i want the wide screen video broadcast to fill the screen(wide) and not have a squish from the top to bottom.
looks short and fat. thats what i dont want to see.

You do have your cablebox set to "TV type: 16:9" , right?

[I assume you know that from the Motorola cablebox's off mode you press the menu button to access this stuff.]

yep did that. doesnt work.

its a problem with the dvd recorder. cant get around it.

yep did that. doesnt work.

its a problem with the dvd recorder. cant get around it.
I suspect that it is a problem with the cable box and not the DVD Recorder. Try bringing it over to a neighbor/friend's house who has a different setup (such as DirecTV, or get an updated box from Comcast) and see if it works on that platform...

Another test you might try is attempting to record the signal from an external separate DVD player also set to 16:9 output. Of course commercial DVD movies have various forms of copy guard applied to them so you may have to use a DVD you've recorded with home camcorder content or maybe at least the menu of a normal movie DVD will pass, I'm not sure.

Also the 4:3 override setting in your cable box setup may come into play.
Good luck.

....i can get the thing to be fine length wise but i cant get it to stretch the top and bottom to go all the way up or down.

looks squished......

.....and i want the wide screen video broadcast to fill the screen(wide) and not have a squish from the top to bottom.
looks short and fat. thats what i dont want to see.

This is a know issue if the Recorder does not have 'Component' input (no new models do anymore)

Look at this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=775235

I included the attached pics that were posted in that thread, probably exactly what you are talking about

yep, pretty much.

essentially a wide screen non anamorphic dvd.

i can use the tv to zoom into the proper ar but doenst look to good.

oh well.

FYI, although this newbie didn't create a new post about this very issue when I started seeking info on it last week, I also did not see this particular STICKY/thread.

I found/posted on the thread I did wind up on - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11810723 - because of coming from a direct link from a google.com search (and that search including a particular DVD-recorder model).

Unfortunately, this model doesn't have component-IN, so I get to join the miriad of those that cannot get their 16:9 recordings from hd/dvr to DVD Recorder :/

my dvd recorder has a digital qam tuner so i can record uncrypted dig hd signals in their native shape without needing to stretch or zoom znything.

the problem is most channels are coded or encrypted so you cant get them.

so when you record a wide a.r. program it is essentially the same as a non anamorphic dvd that will need to be zoomed by the tv.

Beware the cheap DVD recorder brands, as many only have mono tuners and won't even record in stereo.
Is this still true with the newer models having built-in digital ATSC tuners?

I had an old LiteOn, and it was mono tuner. Now I have a cheapo Magnavox with digital tuner, and didn't even think to see if its mono or stereo (or hopefully DD5.1).

-John

I haven't posted in awhile. I have been using my DirecTV HR10-250 HD Tivo STBs to record both satellite HD and OTA HD programs to my Sony RDR-HR715 and GX300 DVD recorders using S-Video from the HR10-250. I set the HR10-250 to get an anamorphic video to record on on these DVD recorders. There are many posts in this forum as to how to do that. The DVDs that you record (N.B., 2 hours or less for the GX300 and 2.5 hours or less for the HR715) on these Sony DVD recorders will have the ifo flags set correctly and the burned DVD will play perfectly in Normal Mode on a 16:9 widescreen HD TVs and it will not be squeezed from the sides on a 4:3 SD TV.

I am thinking of getting the new DirecTV HR20-100, HR20-700 or HR21 DVRs and replacing the Tivo HR10-250 HD STBs but I am concerned that I will have problems recording anamorphic video to my Sony DVD recorders. I am concerned that the new non-Tivo manufactured DirecTV HD DVR STBs will not output an anamorphic signal on S-Video and I will get a letterbox image with bars all around when I burn a DVD and play it back on a 16:9 widescreen HD TV in Normal Mode. I know I can zoom the letterboxed image to fill the screen but it isn't as sharp as an anamorphic image.

Has anyone had experience burning anamorphic DVDs from the new DirecTV HR2-100, HR20-700 or HR21 HD DVRs?

You could search for an on-line owner's manual for one of them and see if it has the same output modes you've had success with on the older HR10-250. Good luck.

You could search for an on-line owner's manual for one of them and see if it has the same output modes you've had success with on the older HR10-250. Goos luck.

I have the manuals but they are confusing as to what I can do with recording to my DVD recorders. There are a lot of people on this forum that record from the DirecTV HR10-250 HD STBs to the Sony DVD recorders I mentioned. I am hoping that someone here has done the same with the newer DirecTV HD DVRs.

Has anyone had experience burning anamorphic DVDs from the new DirecTV HR2-100, HR20-700 or HR21 HD DVRs?I have two DirecTiVo HD HR10-250s and two DirecTV HD HR20-700s. I find the situation of recording from the newer HR20-700 even better than the older model.

In the older model, you had to manually change the resolution to 480i so that you could get a video signal out of the S-Video port, and then you manually had to change it back to 1080i to watch it in that resolution on your HDTV after recording.

Now the HR20-700 outputs a video signal from all of the Video ports even when the HDMI is sending 1080i to the HDTV. I find that the video signal is anamorphic either when I record it to my Panny VHS/DVD Recorder (although I have to record it on a DVD-RW and use my computer to fix the aspect ratio setting on the resulting DVD-R) and on my ADS Tech Instant DVD (for Mac) MPEG-2 digitizer box (which I use when I want to edit down the resulting digitized content before I burn it to a DVD or convert it to H.264 for my Apple TV).

I am very happy now that I can DVD record (or digitize) all of the new 16x9 HD channels that DirecTV has to offer... Good luck!

I have two DirecTiVo HD HR10-250s and two DirecTV HD HR20-700s. I find the situation of recording from the newer HR20-700 even better than the older model.

In the older model, you had to manually change the resolution to 480i so that you could get a video signal out of the S-Video port, and then you manually had to change it back to 1080i to watch it in that resolution on your HDTV after recording.

Now the HR20-700 outputs a video signal from all of the Video ports even when the HDMI is sending 1080i to the HDTV. I find that the video signal is anamorphic either when I record it to my Panny VHS/DVD Recorder (although I have to record it on a DVD-RW and use my computer to fix the aspect ratio setting on the resulting DVD-R) and on my ADS Tech Instant DVD (for Mac) MPEG-2 digitizer box (which I use when I want to edit down the resulting digitized content before I burn it to a DVD or convert it to H.264 for my Apple TV).

I am very happy now that I can DVD record (or digitize) all of the new 16x9 HD channels that DirecTV has to offer... Good luck!

Thanks for your reply. I like the fact that you don't have to change the resolution. You said: "I find that the video signal is anamorphic either when I record it to my Panny VHS/DVD Recorder (although I have to record it on a DVD-RW and use my computer to fix the aspect ratio setting on the resulting DVD-R)". I assume that you use ifoedit or something similar to change the aspect flags from 4:3 to 16:9. I also have a Panasonic DVD/HD recorder for which I have to do the same thing. The nice thing about the two Sony DVD recorders I listed is that you don't have to do that.

Anyone on the forum burning DVDs from the HR20 or HR21 to the Sony DVD recorders I listed?

I assume that you use ifoedit or something similar to change the aspect flags from 4:3 to 16:9. I use MyDVDEdit on the Mac.

Anyone on the forum burning DVDs from the HR20 or HR21 to the Sony DVD recorders I listed?

I record from an HR20 to a Sony gx300. I think mine is a 100 not 700 tho.
What do you need to know? When The gx300 is set to record 16x9 in the record settings ~ It does create 16x9 discs via svid on dvd-rw.

I was a little confused if you wanted letterbox or not. It's 16x9... How is Anamorphic different?
Rob

Has anyone had experience burning anamorphic DVDs from the new DirecTV HR2-100, HR20-700 or HR21 HD DVRs?

Another feature of the newer HR20-700 that I forgot to mention, when recording SD 16x9 letterboxed content: Use the FORMAT button on the DirecTV remote to change the aspect ratio output to CROP. This, in effect, creates a zoom effect to fill the full screen with the wanted content and crops out the letterboxing.

Hence, when you record to a DVD and set the aspect ratio to 16x9, you will automatically get a full screen image from your DVD on a 16x9 TV and it will return to letterboxing when watched on a 4x3 TV.

Sure beats editing out the letterboxing!

I record from an HR20 to a Sony gx300. I think mine is a 100 not 700 tho.
What do you need to know? When The gx300 is set to record 16x9 in the record settings ~ It does create 16x9 discs via svid on dvd-rw.

I was a little confused if you wanted letterbox or not. It's 16x9... How is Anamorphic different?
Rob

No I do not want letter boxing. Please see my post #13 in this thread and I think that you will understand my question better. When I record a 16X9 HD program from an HD DVR to a DVD I want to get a DVD that plays back as a 16X9 widescreen picture (not letter boxed) on a widescreen TV and also plays back without distortion on a 4X3 SD TV.

When I record a 16X9 HD program from an HD DVR to a DVD I want to get a DVD that plays back as a 16X9 widescreen picture (not letter boxed) on a widescreen TV and also plays back without distortion on a 4X3 SD TV.

I'll try and check it for you.
However I don't see any other choice. If you want the new stations from Dtv you'll have to get an HR20. The HR10 didn't do what you wanted did it?

I'll try and check it for you.
However I don't see any other choice. If you want the new stations from Dtv you'll have to get an HR20. The HR10 didn't do what you wanted did it?

Exactly! I want to get all the new HD channels that I can receive with the HR20 but I want to be able to burn the HD programs to a DVD with the quality I get with the HR10-250.

The other alternative is to go with a Tivo Series 3 on my Verizon FIOS service. However Verizon has not announced what HD channels that they will provide in the future.

Thanks for your help.

good deel sariiiiiiiiiiiiii

Exactly! I want to get all the new HD channels that I can receive with the HR20 but I want to be able to burn the HD programs to a DVD with the quality I get with the HR10-250.

The other alternative is to go with a Tivo Series 3 on my Verizon FIOS service. However Verizon has not announced what HD channels that they will provide in the future.If you want to be able to burn pristine HD recordings from cable channels to DVD, then the only choice you really have -- outside of an expensive Windows Media Center PC with CableCards -- is the TivoHD / Series3 with Verizon FiOS.

The TivoHD and the Series3 are the only DVR/DVD-R products on the market that let you download high-definition recordings with DD5.1 directly to your PC using a web browser. You can then burn those high-def recordings to DVD for playback in HD-DVD and Blu-ray players. More information on that can be found in these threads:

Creating HD-DVDs and Blu-ray disks with Tivo downloads using DVD media... (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=371324) (TCF)
The official AVS Guide to HD DVD Authoring (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146) (AVS)
My Blu-Ray Movie Burning Experiences... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=815296) (AVS)

Programs like VideoRedo will also take high-def recordings, automatically remove the commercials, downconvert them to SD with quality that exceeds any CE DVD recorder product, and then burn them to disk for playback in standard DVD players.

The obvious downside to Verizon FiOS is that they aren't expected to add a significant number of new HD channels for another six months.

If you want to be able to burn pristine HD recordings from cable channels to DVD, then the only choice you really have -- outside of an expensive Windows Media Center PC with CableCards -- is the TivoHD / Series3 with Verizon FiOS.
The obvious downside to Verizon FiOS is that they aren't expected to add a significant number of new HD channels for another six months.

In this setup, Is there a seperate receiver that conencts to the tivo or is it just 1 box for everything? If 2 boxes, What type of connection is there between the 2? HDMI input to the Tivo? Svid?

I haven't looked at TIVo in awhile but originally I thought it would have the same signal loss thru the input as an svid dvd recorder would with a dtv box.
Rob

In this setup, Is there a seperate receiver that conencts to the tivo or is it just 1 box for everything? If 2 boxes, What type of connection is there between the 2? HDMI input to the Tivo? Svid?You can record from s-video output -- the Tivo does output anamorphic 16:9 video through s-video just like the old HR10 -- but recording to DVD that way will not produce higher quality.

I haven't looked at TIVo in awhile but originally I thought it would have the same signal loss thru the input as an svid dvd recorder would with a dtv box.
RobThe Tivo certainly does have the same quality loss through s-video.

The difference is that Tivo lets you the download the original, unmodified digital recording directly to your PC or Mac using a web browser. You can then burn the unmodified digital recording directly to DVD. You avoid the quality loss associated with analog video outputs and cheap HD -> SD downconversion. Plus, you retain (and can burn) the original Dolby Digital 5.1 track; there is no more lossy downconversion to stereo.

The difference is that Tivo lets you the download the original, unmodified digital recording directly to your PC or Mac using a web browser. You can then burn the unmodified digital recording directly to DVD. You avoid the quality loss associated with analog video outputs and cheap HD -> SD downconversion.I think you misunderstood the question (or I will ask a different one):

How does the HD TiVo connect to the cable box in a way that avoids deterioration of quality? CableCards? Thanks.

I think you misunderstood the question (or I will ask a different one):

How does the HD TiVo connect to the cable box in a way that avoids deterioration of quality? CableCards? Thanks.Yes, CableCards. It supports MCARDs just like the new cable company DVRs, so just one card is required to support dual tuners.

Or you can use it for OTA. You can use it for clear QAM from cable without CableCards, but then you won't have guide data on those channels.

You can record from s-video output -- the Tivo does output anamorphic 16:9 video through s-video just like the old HR10 -- but recording to DVD that way will not produce higher quality.

The Tivo certainly does have the same quality loss through s-video.



Do you happen to know if the HR20 DirecTV HD DVR outputs anamorphic 16:9 video through the S-Video just like the old HR10 (of which I have four that will soon be boat anchors)?

Also in a later post you say "It (the Tivo) supports MCARDs just like the new cable company DVRs, so just one card is required to support dual tuners." Two questions: 1) do both the Tivo-HD and Tivo Series 3 support the MCARDS? and 2) does Verizon FIOS support MCARDS? I asked Verizon that question and they had no idea what I was talking about. Note that Verizon pulled a fast one with the FCC and unlike the cable companies they are not required to even support cable cards for a couple more years.

The reason I ask these questions is that I am debating whether to abandon DirecTV after about 12 years and use my FIOS (which I have had for over 2 years for Internet use) with new Tivo-HD or S3 HD DVRs. The capital cost will be much higher to go with FIOS because of the cost of four new Tivo HD DVRs vs the retention deals you can get with DirecTV. The monthly costs for FIOS will be lower especially if FIOS suupports MCARDS. In any case I have to be able to record 16:9 anamorphic video to my Sony and Panasonic DVD recorders. I don't really have the need to record in HD to a Blu-ray recorder on my PC although that is interesting to know for possible use in the future when Blu-ray media prices drop.

Do you happen to know if the HR20 DirecTV HD DVR outputs anamorphic 16:9 video through the S-Video just like the old HR10 (of which I have four that will soon be boat anchors)?I answered this for you in my 10-22-07, 01:37 AM post:

I have two DirecTiVo HD HR10-250s and two DirecTV HD HR20-700s. I find the situation of recording from the newer HR20-700 even better than the older model.

In the older model, you had to manually change the resolution to 480i so that you could get a video signal out of the S-Video port, and then you manually had to change it back to 1080i to watch it in that resolution on your HDTV after recording.

Now the HR20-700 outputs a video signal from all of the Video ports even when the HDMI is sending 1080i to the HDTV. I find that the video signal is anamorphic either when I record it to my Panny VHS/DVD Recorder (although I have to record it on a DVD-RW and use my computer to fix the aspect ratio setting on the resulting DVD-R) and on my ADS Tech Instant DVD (for Mac) MPEG-2 digitizer box (which I use when I want to edit down the resulting digitized content before I burn it to a DVD or convert it to H.264 for my Apple TV).

I am very happy now that I can DVD record (or digitize) all of the new 16x9 HD channels that DirecTV has to offer... Good luck!

Also, I later added:

Another feature of the newer HR20-700 that I forgot to mention, when recording SD 16x9 letterboxed content: Use the FORMAT button on the DirecTV remote to change the aspect ratio output to CROP. This, in effect, creates a zoom effect to fill the full screen with the wanted content and crops out the letterboxing.

Hence, when you record to a DVD and set the aspect ratio to 16x9, you will automatically get a full screen image from your DVD on a 16x9 TV and it will return to letterboxing when watched on a 4x3 TV.

Sure beats editing out the letterboxing!

And I should add: using the FORMAT button on SD 4x3 content adjusts it for proper recording to DVD without have to set and reset the output resolution to 4x3 or 16x9, as I had to do on the older HR10-250s...

Also in a later post you say "It (the Tivo) supports MCARDs just like the new cable company DVRs, so just one card is required to support dual tuners." Two questions: 1) do both the Tivo-HD and Tivo Series 3 support the MCARDS? and 2) does Verizon FIOS support MCARDS? I asked Verizon that question and they had no idea what I was talking about. Note that Verizon pulled a fast one with the FCC and unlike the cable companies they are not required to even support cable cards for a couple more years.The $250 TivoHD supports MCARDs, so one MCARD will support dual tuners. Comcast, Cox, and Time Warner offer MCARDs in most areas, but Verizon FiOS will not until 1Q 2008. Until then, you need two of their older 'S' CableCards to support dual tuners. Verizon charges $2.99/mo per CableCard.

The reason I ask these questions is that I am debating whether to abandon DirecTV after about 12 years and use my FIOS (which I have had for over 2 years for Internet use) with new Tivo-HD or S3 HD DVRs. The capital cost will be much higher to go with FIOS because of the cost of four new Tivo HD DVRs vs the retention deals you can get with DirecTV. The monthly costs for FIOS will be lower especially if FIOS suupports MCARDS. In any case I have to be able to record 16:9 anamorphic video to my Sony and Panasonic DVD recorders. I don't really have the need to record in HD to a Blu-ray recorder on my PC although that is interesting to know for possible use in the future when Blu-ray media prices drop.There is no perfect solution.

With DirecTV, you get the most HD channels today and potentially cheaper equipment (depending on promos), but you give up the ability to download recordings directly to your computer. DirecTV users are not going to get that capability anytime soon, if ever. The fact that DirecTV is owned by one of the staunchest advocates of copyright protection doesn't help -- News Corp (DirecTV's owner) developed the broadcast flag for television, BD+ for Blu-ray, and is among those pushing most for the elimination of high-definition analog output.

If Verizon FiOS is available in your area, you won't see most most of the new HD channels before next spring; they have 27-28 HD channels now, 30-32 expected by the end of the year, 60 by next spring, and 150 by the end of next year. But you do get superior SD picture quality (704x480 @ 4-5 Mbps instead of 480x480 @ <2 Mbps), significantly better picture quality than DirecTV's MPEG-2 HD channels, and slightly better picture quality than DirecTV's MPEG-4 HD channels. Plus, you get the ability to download any high-definition recording directly to your PC, as seen in the screenshots below.

Once you download these recordings to your computer, you can cut out the commercials using VideoRedo and burn them in high-definition with DD5.1 to DVD-R and DVD+R media for playback in high-definition resolution on HD-DVD and Blu-ray players. For example, that $99 HD-DVD player at Walmart will play high-definition content burned to DVD. I'm not talking about upconversion; I'm talking about true high-definition playback that is 100% identical to the original broadcast.

If you don't have a HD-DVD or Blu-ray player, and don't care about high-definition playback, you can still create standard DVDs with noticeably better quality than what you get with standalone DVD writer. Why is it better?

FiOS SD recordings downloaded to your computer from the Tivo (MPG format) can be burned directly to DVD without any digital->analog->digital conversion.

What you get on DVD is 100% identical to the original broadcast -- that includes both the video and DD5.1 audio.


FiOS HD recordings downloaded to your computer from the Tivo (MPG format) can downconverted to SD and burned to DVD with significantly higher quality than what you get with standalone DVD recorders.

Audio quality is obviously superior because you retain the original DD5.1 signal. Picture quality is better because you aren't limited to constant bitrates or low peak bitrates like 3Mbps, 4Mbps, or 6Mbps MPEG-2 of standalone DVD recorders. When creating the DVD on your computer from the original source recording, you can use an average video bitrate that varies from 2Mbps to 9.8Mbps depending on the complexity of the scene. The maximum possible bitrate is used to fit a given length program within the capacity limitations of DVD.
It really comes down to priorities. How important is it to have all the HD channels available now? How important is SD picture quality to you? How important is the ability to download the original SD and HD recordings to your computer? How important is DVD recording quality? And are you willing to create DVDs using your computer's DVD burner?

The $250 TivoHD supports MCARDs, so one MCARD will support dual tuners. Comcast, Cox, and Time Warner offer MCARDs in most areas, but Verizon FiOS will not until 1Q 2008. Until then, you need two of their older 'S' CableCards to support dual tuners. Verizon charges $2.99/mo per CableCard.

There is no perfect solution.

With DirecTV, you get the most HD channels today and potentially cheaper equipment (depending on promos), but you give up the ability to download recordings directly to your computer. DirecTV users are not going to get that capability anytime soon, if ever. The fact that DirecTV is owned by one of the staunchest advocates of copyright protection doesn't help -- News Corp (DirecTV's owner) developed the broadcast flag for television, BD+ for Blu-ray, and is among those pushing most for the elimination of high-definition analog output.

If Verizon FiOS is available in your area, you won't see most most of the new HD channels before next spring; they have 27-28 HD channels now, 30-32 expected by the end of the year, 60 by next spring, and 150 by the end of next year. But you do get superior SD picture quality (704x480 @ 4-5 Mbps instead of 480x480 @ <2 Mbps), significantly better picture quality than DirecTV's MPEG-2 HD channels, and slightly better picture quality than DirecTV's MPEG-4 HD channels. Plus, you get the ability to download any high-definition recording directly to your PC, as seen in the screenshots below.

Once you download these recordings to your computer, you can cut out the commercials using VideoRedo and burn them in high-definition with DD5.1 to DVD-R and DVD+R media for playback in high-definition resolution on HD-DVD and Blu-ray players. For example, that $99 HD-DVD player at Walmart will play high-definition content burned to DVD. I'm not talking about upconversion; I'm talking about true high-definition playback that is 100% identical to the original broadcast.

If you don't have a HD-DVD or Blu-ray player, and don't care about high-definition playback, you can still create standard DVDs with noticeably better quality than what you get with standalone DVD writer. Why is it better?

FiOS SD recordings downloaded to your computer from the Tivo (MPG format) can be burned directly to DVD without any digital->analog->digital conversion.

What you get on DVD is 100% identical to the original broadcast -- that includes both the video and DD5.1 audio.


FiOS HD recordings downloaded to your computer from the Tivo (MPG format) can downconverted to SD and burned to DVD with significantly higher quality than what you get with standalone DVD recorders.

Audio quality is obviously superior because you retain the original DD5.1 signal. Picture quality is better because you aren't limited to constant bitrates or low peak bitrates like 3Mbps, 4Mbps, or 6Mbps MPEG-2. You get an average bitrate that varies from 2Mbps to 10Mbps depending on the complexity of the scene. The maximum possible bitrate is used to fit a given length program within the capacity limitations of DVD.
It really comes down to priorities. How important is it to have all the HD channels available now? How important is SD picture quality to you? How important is the ability to download the original SD and HD recordings to your computer? How important is DVD recording quality And are you willing to create DVDs using your computer's DVD burner?


Thanks for the detailed answer. I am leaning toward FIOS for HD TV (I have had FIOS Internet for over two years and FIOS HD TV is available).

Do you happen to know if there is a limit to the number of Cable Cards or HD receivers that FIOS can serve? I would need three HD Tivo DVRs (and therfore 6 SCARDS) to replace my three DirecTV HR10-250 STBs plus one HD receiver.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I am leaning toward FIOS for HD TV (I have had FIOS Internet for over two years and FIOS HD TV is available).

Do you happen to know if there is a limit to the number of Cable Cards or HD receivers that FIOS can serve? I would need three HD Tivo DVRs (and therfore 6 SCARDS) to replace my three DirecTV HR10-250 STBs plus one HD receiver.Verizon's current ordering system is limited to seven devices. They can install more than seven CableCards once they actually get to your home, but that is the most you can order over the phone.

As much as I like TiVo and the ability to burn high-definition content to DVD, I might lean toward DirecTV in your situation. Verizon FiOS is expected to move to IPTV in 3-4 years. That could render the TivoHD and any other CableCard product obsolete [for FiOS], depending on how Verizon handles the transition.

I'm more than comfortable spending $250 (or even $500) on product that will give me a 3-4 years of good use. However, I would be more hesitant to spend $1000 or more on equipment that might have to be replaced in three or four years [unless you switch to another cable provider].

With DirecTV, you should not have to worry about that. DirecTV's DVRs should continue to support their service in 3-4 years. Of course, with the rate of technology advancement, you may not want to use 2007 technology in 2011. But at least you would have that option.

I just had to upate this post, to bump Wabjxo's post off the top.....Just kidding, here's my question.
I understand that a person cannnot record HD to DVD due to the dvd standard. My question has to do with a camcorder that I noticed Sony selling. Model HDR-UX5. The ad says record HD to a 3" standard dvd, not HDD or even Memory stick, but to a 3" DVD. Now how can this be, are they using a non-standard format on there 3" dvd's, that won't play on a "standard" dvd player? I had always thought that a 3" dvd recorded on a camcorder was playable on any dvd payer than accepted 3" discs.
Am I missing something? and also, how many minutes can a 3" 1.4?GB I think, dvd hold? can't be very many in HD format...

I understand that a person cannnot record HD to DVD due to the dvd standard...

Technically speaking you can take HD content and burn it to a standard DVD in a specialized format that will play on a HD-DVD player. Of course, you are limited to 4.3 Gigs of authored content.

There are other threads that give a detailed description of this process.

Also, all the new HD movie channels record to excellent quality widescreen standard resolution DVDs.

It doesn't use DVDs, it uses miniDVDs, perhaps DL at best. That's 2.6 GB (not 4+) and you may have a visual pause half way through due to the layer change.

This review says 14-16 minutes per disc in best HD HQ mode and each disc takes 10 minutes to finalize. Not for me. I'd go with the hard drive version they make (40 GB?) or perhaps the flash memory version to save space and size. Even a design using miniDV tapes at 2 hr of HD on a $4 reusable, shock and vibration resistant media seems better than these UX5/7 designs.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-UX7-Camcorder-Review-33480/Handling-and-Use.htm

I'm pretty sure the discs won't play back on any other machine other than the camera itself or perhaps certain select Bluray drives.

More here:http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/AVCHD-Expands-to-Two-New-Models-in-the-Sony-DVD-Line.htm

I agree with Zillch, 14-16 min. seems to be kind of a joke. And a person wouldnt even be able to play it back on a "standard" dvd player. Kind of odd though, that Blue-ray players would play it back. I'm sure the 3" discs are not blue-ray discs...I suppose it has to due with the compression method, that maby blue-ray discs use.
I'm impressed with the ability to get 2 hrs of HD on one of those tiny miniDV tapes. How many hours of SD does one of those tapes hold? Must be more than 10 hrs, I would think.
I too agree, a HDD would probably be the way to go for HD usage.

Do any of these HD camera's have some sort of HD inPut? hdmi?

No. They may have IEE1394 (aka "firewire" or "i-link") but it may be out only, but if it is in also, I can assure you they have limited it to 480i communication like from another miniDV cam, for example.

Do any of these HD camera's have some sort of HD inPut? hdmi?Yeah, it's called Real Life and then they drop it down to 1080i or 720p.

You're not going to find any consumer product that digitizes in HD until they sort out DRM, etc.

Looking through a Brookstone catalog I came across this. The ad was talking about a Sony HD camcorder w/hd DVD burner. In the description it said "burn AVCHD DVD's using the included DVD burner, no PC required."
So intrigued as to weather it could really burn HD to DVD, on a standard DVD(not mini), I drove to UE. The sales guy there said it "really didnt burn HD, but rather up-converted HD" When I said that's not what the ad said, he didnt know what to say, other than up-converted hd. So I went across the street to CC, and the sales guy there said they had the burner, but it only recorded to standard DVD's. I told him that the max a person could get on a standard DVD was 480i or P. He said no, that a person can record 720p to a standard DVD!! God, and these are the people we trust with recommendations!!
Does anyone know any better than these 2 fine salesmen? I'm sure so, whats the scoop? Do they record in some format, only readable by BR players, if so, both salesman were totally wrong, they both said the dvd's would play just fine, on a standard DVD player. One said 720p, and the other said up-converted 480p.:confused:

You can burn HD content on a DVD. You can then play back the HD content on the DVD with a HD DVD player. Not a Blu-Ray player. It is one of the advantages of a HD DVD player.

For anybody that may be interested:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

Here are the steps to record in high-definition resolution to DVD:

Automatically download high-definition recordings to your computer.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/tivodesktoptransfer_small.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/tivodesktoptransfer.png)
Alternatively, use any web browser (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/tivoweb.png).


Automatically remove commercials and save.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/videoredo/videoredo3_small.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/videoredo/videoredo3.png)
Red areas are deleted commercials.


Launch MovieFactory.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/create_small.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/create.jpg)


Open recording.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/import_small.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/import.png)


Pick menu.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/menu_small.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/menu.png)


Burn to DVD.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/burn_small.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/burn.png)

After the recording was downloaded to my PC, it took about 10 minutes (total) to make that HD-DVD of Dexter using a 4.7Gb DVD.

Nextoo, thanks for the link, I'll be reading for days.
Bfdtv, Your post looks very interesting, I'm sure I will learn these questions when reading the above link, but on photo 3 it looks like a person can choose the format, be it HD DVD, BR, or AVCHD. Is AVCHD the only format that a person can record on a standard DVD? I would assume that BR or HD DVD format could only be burned onto the corresponding format blank discs, but you did say you burned 1hr Dexter to a 4.7 GB DVD, so that sounds like a standard DVD? If so whats the max recording time you can get, say 720p on a 4.7 gb DVD, and then would that DVD need to be played back on a BR or HD DVD player?
Just when I thought I had it figured out that a person cannot record HD to a standard DVD (and keep it HD) it sounds like I might be wrong.:confused:
I liked the idea of this Sony recorder, but from the fact that it only has composite, S-video and DV input, + some other input which I cant remember,
I'm sure I cannot feed it a component or HDMI out, from say a HDTV tuner box, and expect it to record HD. I dont think any tuner boxes output DV, and I'm sure S-video could not support HD format. I suppose the hold up would be some copyright thing.:mad:
Thanks

I'm sure I will learn these questions when reading the above link, but on photo 3 it looks like a person can choose the format, be it HD DVD, BR, or AVCHD. Is AVCHD the only format that a person can record on a standard DVD?Standard DVDs are an option when you choose HD DVD and AVCHD.

For the above shots, I selected HD-DVD and then opened and burned a high-definition Dexter recording to a 4.7Gb DVD-R.

I would assume that BR or HD DVD format could only be burned onto the corresponding format blank discs, but you did say you burned 1hr Dexter to a 4.7 GB DVD, so that sounds like a standard DVD? If so whats the max recording time you can get, say 720p on a 4.7 gb DVD, and then would that DVD need to be played back on a BR or HD DVD player?Right.

The HD-DVD option doesn't re-encode. The content on the HD-DVD is 100% identical to the original high-definition broadcast. That means your high-def recordings -- after you've eliminated the commercials -- must total 4.38Gb or less for a SL DVD and 7.96Gb or less for a DL DVD. As you can see from that screenshot, that 51min episode of Dexter took 4.08Gb.

Recording time will vary by content and channel. I can fit about an hour of FOX, ABC, HBO, SHO, and STARZ on a SL DVD, and about 40 minutes of NBC and CBS on a SL-DVD. That works out well since most network programs have 20 minutes of commercials per hour.

Just when I thought I had it figured out that a person cannot record HD to a standard DVD (and keep it HD) it sounds like I might be wrong.:confused:You can certainly record full-resolution HD to standard DVD, you just can't do it with standalone DVD recorders. You've got to use a computer.

Thanks,
I've got lots of reading to do, I'll assume from your example, CBS and NBC must be 1080i, while FOX and ABC are 720p. That's the way they are in my local market, I didnt realize it was network wide. Nice to know.

Thanks,
I've got lots of reading to do, I'll assume from your example, CBS and NBC must be 1080i, while FOX and ABC are 720p. That's the way they are in my local market, I didnt realize it was network wide. Nice to know.Right.

Bfdtv, I take it HBO-type premium content, like movies, are locked out from being archived to any form of optical disk on your setup, even common DVD, right? What is your Tivo on your PC setup called, for that matter?

Also, my understanding is that the Sony Cam jjeff is asking about (HDR-UX1 ?) will record to its internal miniDVD dual layer DVDR (+?) in a format that Sony says will be compatible on certain Bluray stand alone machines. I don't think even using a DL disc will allow for a full hour at the best (fastest) bit rate speed, and I suspect the layer change causes a slight pause, too. It would be odd for them to make anything HD-DVD friendly, for that matter, seeing as it is their arch rival.

Bfdtv, I take it HBO-type premium content, like movies, are locked out from being archived to any form of optical disk on your setup, even common DVD, right?With most cable providers, you can't download recordings from premium movie channels. Verizon FiOS is one of the exceptions. If you have Verizon FiOS, you can download anything you want and burn it to DVD or Blu-ray disk in high-definition.

What is your Tivo on your PC setup called, for that matter?Tivo calls that program (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/tivodesktoptransfer.png) Tivo Desktop, but you can use any web browser (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/tivoweb.png). The benefit of Tivo Desktop over a web browser is that you can set it to download all your favorite programs automatically whenever your computer is on.

It would be odd for them to make anything HD-DVD friendly, for that matter, seeing as it is their arch rival.As far as I know, all newer Blu-ray players will play AVCHD content. Some camcorders record in AVCHD to DVD; you can play these disks directly in Blu-ray players, but not HD-DVD players.

Other camcorders like the Canon HG10 record in AVCHD format to a built-in hard drive. Using a program like Ulead MovieFactory 6 Plus (same one linked above), you can "drag and drop" to create a DVD with these high-definition recordings in just a few minutes. These will play directly in Blu-ray players, but not HD-DVD players.

Mzillch, Actually the device I spoke about yesterday(12-19) was a standalone recorder only(no tuner). The ad said it recorded to "standard 5.25" DVD's. And from what I learned from dtdtf, it must record in the AVCHD format, which I think?? would play back both in a HD DVD or BR player? That's where I get a little confused. First I thought btdtf said "Standard DVDs are an option when you choose HD DVD and AVCHD." But then he said "Some camcorders record in AVCHD to DVD; you can play these disks directly in Blu-ray players, but not HD-DVD players."
I wonder if he meant to say, some camcorders record in AVCHD to (BR)DVD? and "those" (BR) DVD's would only play in BD players. That makes more sense.
Am I reading you correct btdtf?

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the standard DVD format is just the blank template to store the HD format. If a person records in the HD format AVCHD, they can store it on any type DVD they choose(I guess except BR for some reason?). Then to play back this "somewhat" non-standard (standard dvd, by this I mean 4.7gb, not BR or HD DVD) a person needs a (HD) DVD player.

As noted my original attraction to this Sony dvd burner was I thought I could use it to copy tv programs directly to the sony. But because Sony did not include a HDMI in, but rather only DV and (maby firewire, cant remember) it looks like I still wont be able to record HD to DVD, with a standalone device. I'm destine to get a better computer/software and a Tivo, to do the job.
I only have OTA, and really only record maby 6-12 programs a week, so I was a little reluctant to get a Tivo, which seems like it would be almost a necessity w/cable and all the associated channels, but kind of a overkill with only 10 OTA channels(and maby 5 I actually record from), but the HD option is very intriguing. I think I read on another forum that Tivo has a 3 yr option for something like $300? I suppose that wouldnt be too bad.

Jjeff, do you have a model number for this camcorder/ hd dvd burner package?

Thanks.

Mzillch, Actually the device I spoke about yesterday(12-19) was a standalone recorder only(no tuner). The ad said it recorded to "standard 5.25" DVD's. And from what I learned from dtdtf, it must record in the AVCHD format, which I think??As far as I know, only shipping devices that record in AVCHD format are camcorders.

There are no DVD recorders which record in AVCHD format -- or at least, none that are available in the United States.

There are no standalone DVD recorders which record in HD. Recording high-definition to DVD requires (1) a PC TV tuner or a DVR that lets you download recordings to your computer, and (2) a HD-DVD or AVCHD authoring program like Nero v8 (with $25 add-on) or Ulead MovieFactory.

so I was a little reluctant to get a Tivo, which seems like it would be almost a necessity w/cable and all the associated channels, but kind of a overkill with only 10 OTA channels(and maby 5 I actually record from), but the HD option is very intriguing. I think I read on another forum that Tivo has a 3 yr option for something like $300? I suppose that wouldnt be too bad.If you only record from OTA, then you can get a PC tuner for your PC / Mac.

My favorite solution for OTA is the dual-tuner HDHomerun (http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/products/hdhomerun) ($169) coupled with a SageTV HD extender (http://brentevans.blogspot.com/2007/12/sagetv-hd-extender-stx-hd100-review.html) ($249).

With this setup, you install the bundled SageTV server software on a networked Windows, Mac, Linux, or WHS computer anywhere in your home. You connect the dual-tuner HDHomerun to an ethernet port on your network router.

You connect the SageTV HD extender (http://brentevans.blogspot.com/2007/12/sagetv-hd-extender-stx-hd100-review.html) to any TV in your home where you want to view all your recordings. This device acts just like a HDTV DVR -- you've got a program guide to watch liveTV, schedule recordings, and watch recordings --except all recordings are stored on the computer elsewhere in your home. This box also lets you view other high-def videos stored on your PC or network, as well as pictures and music. There are no subscriptions or monthly fees to use this product.

Of course, you can create HD-DVDs with DVD media with the high-definition recordings on your PC as well.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/sagetv/guide.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/sagetv/home.jpg

There are several add-ons for this product. One popular add-on removes commercials from all your recordings on the fly, so recordings are commercial free when viewed on your TV with the HD extender.

This solution is especially good if you have multiple TVs in your home. All you need for each additional TV is another $199 HD extender. All extenders can access live TV and recordings from that single Windows, Mac, or Linux PC. Of course, if you want to watch live TV on multiple TVs at once, you'll probably want a second HDHomerun to double your number of OTA HD tuners to four.

If you don't have a network connection in your TV room(s), you can add one with coax -> ethernet bridge like a Motorola NIM100. A NIM100 ($40 on ebay) will provide a 100Mbps ethernet connection anywhere in your home that you have coax.

bfdtv, Thanks for all the info and links. All your options sound very interesting.
Mzillch, I will get the info on the burner when I get home from work. Possible that Brookstone overstated what this burner & camcorder package could do. I know from my experience at Circuit City and Ultimate Electronics, there is a lot of miss information out there. I'm glad we have someone like bfdtv to help straighten things out.

I'll post the model # of the burner when I get home, but again since the burner only seems to have dv and firewire? inputs, it still would not be able to record from a HDTV tuner, since I would think the tuner would not have a DV or firewire? output, probably HDMI only. Just a guess.

According to Brookstone.com item #579052 includes a Sony VRD-MC5 DVD burner, that will record standard sized DVD's with AVCHD format. Could they be overstating the burner?

VRD-MC5 (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-VRD-MC5-DVD-Burner-Gets-U.S.-Release-32966.htm)

It will record from their AVCHD camcorders only, on to normal DVDRs, it seems, and playback on Bluray decks. No computer connection unlike its predecessor.

I guess the only way I'd be able to archive Comcast HBO-HD would be to aim a camcorder at my HDTV display. :) (yes, I know that doesn't work very well)

Well you found out more about this burner than I. The sales people at BM stores, and CSR's at Brookstone didnt have a clue. I wonder if the 5.25" DVD wouldn't playback on a HD DVD deck? After all it sounds like the AVCHD format is somewhat standard to BR and HD DVD, but knowing Sony I suppose they made something different, to inhibit the disc from playing on HD DVD!

Yes, you have a even more difficult situation than I. I'm just trying to burn regular HD network primetime to dvd.
I suppose you could get the Brookstone Sony HD camcorder/burner package, and point that "Sony" camera at your HDTV, for 1080i res.......:D
My guess is someone at Brookstone would say, "no problem":rolleyes:

Let me try and grasp this, HD content on your PC can be authored with Moviefactory 6 to a 4.7gb disc formatted as a HD-DVD? What devices will it play on? Just HD-DVD players?

Let me try and grasp this, HD content on your PC can be authored with Moviefactory 6 to a 4.7gb disc formatted as a HD-DVD? What devices will it play on? Just HD-DVD players?Yes. You can also use Nero v8.2.8 with the $25 HD-DVD plug-in to do the same.

These disks will play on HD-DVD players as well as PCs with HD-DVD playback software like WinDVD and PowerDVD.

You can author high-definition on DVD for Blu-ray players, but you've got to author in AVCHD format. Unfortunately, both Blu-ray and HD-DVD use different standards for high-definition on DVD media, so you can't produce a single HD disk that will work on both platforms.

VRD-MC5 (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-VRD-MC5-DVD-Burner-Gets-U.S.-Release-32966.htm)I guess the only way I'd be able to archive Comcast HBO-HD would be to aim a camcorder at my HDTV display. :) (yes, I know that doesn't work very well)Going back to the original point of this thread: the new proliferation of HD Movies channels makes for nice Anamorphic DVDs on a DVD Recorder, which will play better on an upscaling 1080i Player.

At least you can do this for now, and when the technology progresses, rerecord them in HD. It is not as if these movies are going back into the vault forever! And who knows, but maybe by then DVDs will be out of favor and media lounges (ala the Apple TV) will be the spice de jeur...

Unfortunately, both Blu-ray and HD-DVD use different standards for high-definition on DVD media, so you can't produce a single HD disk that will work on both platforms.Hence, the HD/DVD format wars...

If you want more information on this, there was a poster named bobkart who has posted detailed info on how he burned HD content to standard DVD-R for playback on his Toshiba HD-DVD player.

He hasn't been around for a while but his posts are in the archive. Do a search on him to retrieve the info.

Thanks. It looks like bobkart has a laborious multi-step method of burning 24 minutes of HD-DVD quality material to a standard SL DVD blank, playable on standalone Toshiba type decks. He says if you slow down the bit rate you can even make that an hour, but it won't be artifact free. I also assume various forms of copy protection (CGMS? DTCP?) would prevent my intended use (Comcast HBO-HD movie archiving).

His entry is post #7 here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=888028&highlight=hd+dvd)

I use D-VHS (JVC HMDH5U) to record Comcast HBO-HD movies currently and it works well for me but I fear some day my deck will die and I think D-VHS is about to go the way of the dinosaurs and be impossible to replace. I make 480i anamorphic DVD backups of some of my stuff, but it just doesn't compare to the real 1080i/720p HD tape which is a perfect "bit bucket" replica of the original broadcast.

Here are the steps to record in high-definition resolution to DVD:

[list=1] Automatically download high-definition recordings to your computer.




Automatically remove commercials and save.




Launch MovieFactory.

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/create_small.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/author/create.jpg)


Open recording.



Pick menu.




Burn to DVD.


After the recording was downloaded to my PC, it took about 10 minutes (total) to make that HD-DVD of Dexter using a 4.7Gb DVD.

Thanks bfdtv. I am trying to use MovieFactory 6 Plus to make a Blu-ray disc from a broadcast of Boston Legal that I recorded on my TiVo HD (on FIOS) that I transferred to my PC and edited with VideReDo. For the life of me I can't find the screen that you show below what you headlined as 3. Launch MovieFactory. What am I missing? What version of MovieFactory are you using? I can't find any screen in MovieFactory 6 Plus that shows Create Video - Disc Program Format with the choices of HD DVD, Blu-ray and AVCHD. That's the screen that you show in your post. HELP!

Has anyone been able to do what bfdtv describes in post #312 with Blu-ray?

I can't find the screen in MovieFactory 6 that bfdtv shows in his post #312 and I included in my post #331. See attached image "MovieFactory x screenshot.jpg"

In MovieFactory 6 I can't find a place where I can do anything with Blu-ray. See attached image: "MovieFactory 6 screenshot.jpg"

Actually I tried PM'ing BFDTV a couple weeks ago, but never got a response? Not sure if he's still around..I too had questions about the whole thing.

Update: did a search on bfdtv and found he's actively posting mostly in the BR and HDTV forums. You could try and catch him there.

Thanks bfdtv. I am trying to use MovieFactory 6 Plus to make a Blu-ray disc from a broadcast of Boston Legal that I recorded on my TiVo HD (on FIOS) that I transferred to my PC and edited with VideReDo. For the life of me I can't find the screen that you show below what you headlined as 3. Launch MovieFactory. What am I missing? What version of MovieFactory are you using? I can't find any screen in MovieFactory 6 Plus that shows Create Video - Disc Program Format with the choices of HD DVD, Blu-ray and AVCHD. That's the screen that you show in your post. HELP!That screen is what you get when you run the MovieFactory6 Plus launcher (DMFLauncher.exe).

I think the confusion stems from the fact that AVCHD support requires an extra $20 plug-in (http://www.ulead.com/dmf/plugin.htm). I've also installed both free patches (http://www.ulead.com/tech/dmf/dmf_ftp.htm).

Creating an AVCHD disk requires re-encoding into MPEG-4 AVC, and that will require a significant amount of time. With HD-DVD (and Blu-ray with 25-50Gb BDR disks), the original MPEG-2 HD recordings are saved directly to disk so the entire creation process only takes a few minutes.

My apologies if I missed your PM. I receive many PMs per week, and sometimes I miss a few. I much prefer to answer questions in the forum so more than one person can see the answer.

That screen is what you get when you run the MovieFactory6 Plus launcher (DMFLauncher.exe).

I think the confusion stems from the fact that AVCHD support requires an extra $20 plug-in (http://www.ulead.com/dmf/plugin.htm). I've also installed both free patches (http://www.ulead.com/tech/dmf/dmf_ftp.htm).

Creating an AVCHD disk requires re-encoding into MPEG-4 AVC, and that will require a significant amount of time. With HD-DVD (and Blu-ray with 25-50Gb BDR disks), the original MPEG-2 HD recordings are saved directly to disk so the entire creation process only takes a few minutes.



Thanks bfdtv! Once I downloaded and installed the two patches and the $20 plug-in, MovieFactory 6 worked great. It did take awhile to create the AVCHD disk as you said it would but the playback results from my Panasonic Blu-ray 10A player and 65 inch Panasonic plasma were incredible. I had recorded an episode of Boston Legal on a Tivo HD DVR fed from FIOS. I then used VideoRedo to edit the file that I had transferred to my PC.

The only glitch I had was that MovieFactory said that the edited MPEG was too large to fit on a DVD-R. I re-edited the MPEG down to 3.65 GB from 3.71GB. Once the burn was completed there appeared to be a lot of space still left on the DVD-R.

When I compared the picture form the DVD-R to that coming from the Tivo HD, I couldn't tell the difference. The only thing I noticed was the volume was a lot less on the DVD-R.

Thanks again!

The first post in this forum makes it clear there are no stand alone HD recorders, but that post was in 2005. Is that still the case? Anybody know if anyone is making a high definition DVD recorder?

Echostar won a best-of-CES-2008 award for its TR-50 DVR, to be released in July or so. Only thing on the horizon for North America.

Here's a thread on the TR-50. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197)

The first post in this forum makes it clear there are no stand alone HD recorders, but that post was in 2005. Is that still the case? Anybody know if anyone is making a high definition DVD recorder?There are no stand-alone DVD recorders that record in HD to either standard DVD or one of the newer high density formats (B-Ray or HD-DVD). Furthermore, none of them even pass an HD signal through the tuner nor do any record HD to the internal HDD. There is nothing better on the horizon. The TR-50 cited above is a DVR for time-shifting OTA users that will function similarly to a DVR one would rent from a cable/sat/FIOS provider. It records in HD to a HDD; no editing functions or integrated media burner but provision to output a down-converted 480i signal on composite or S-video for feeding to a conventional recorder.

If anything, the DVDR pickings have gotten terribly slimmer over the last 2 years.

Here's a link to an Engadget.com site article. It's only available in Japan right now, but amazingly it only $870 U.S. which I find pretty cheap compared to what hard drive recorders were a few years ago. It not only records on HD-DVD but on standard dvd's in H.264 format. I don't know what's going to happen now that Warner went Blu-ray exclusive and everyone is talking about the demise of HD-DVD. I think a recorder like this would be well excepted and maybe a nice niche market for HD-DVD. Also, in Japan, Sony and Panasonic make Blu-ray standalone recorders. http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/31/toshibas-vardia-rd-a301-writes-hd-dvd-content-to-dvds/

If anything, the DVDR pickings have gotten terribly slimmer over the last 2 years.

Two other oddities:

-Some companies like Sony and Panasonic used to make units with built-in hard drives, I know some Sony (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-DHG-HDD250-30-Hour-High-Definition-Recorder/dp/B00067TYEK) could even record HD and had a cablecard slot to decode premium cable content like HBO, yet they've stopped or switched to a VHS drive instead. What's up with that? :confused:

-An IR blaster to switch the channel on an external cable box or satellite for unattended timer recordings is not a standard feature, despite the fact that perhaps 90% of people record from one of the two. It's absent even on some company's top models like Panasonic's DMREZ47K. Only select models come with that.

This is not a good time to be in the market for any kind of disk recorder, HD or SD.

Anyone know if any new units were shown at CES that at least have an ATSC/clear QAM tuner built-in that will provide a true HD output? I'd be content with one that could only provide a full resolution HD signal while not recording, I believe that's doable right now without having to wait for the new Domino 5 chip, but no one seems to care but me. ;)

No, none have true HD output. Slim pickin's is right. And you're correct on the IR blaster thing. Very few have it anymore.

FAS-Never seen that post, but I find it hard to believe that a person could get 2hrs HD on a 4.7gb dvd. The most I've seen using HD DVD format was somewhere between 40-50 minutes. I'm sure we would have heard it this before since it was dated Oct. 07? I'm skeptical.

If you crank up the compression to ridiculous levels and don't mind extreme motion artifacts and such, I think you can fit hours and hours on one disk. The real question is how much can you fit with hardly any artifacts and that may indeed be less than an hour.

That's true, I think when I was researching DVDR's several years back, I tested a DVDR that fit 10hrs SD on a standard 4.7gb DVD. I remember how awful the PQ was. Even worse than SLP on VHS. More like VP on Panasonic's(10hr VHS mode).:D

Another feature all the current models lack but used to be available is some sort of electronic program guide (EPG). I had a Philips DVDR80? that had that and I liked it, although it had issues. I think it was the Gemstar system which monitored some sub data on one of the NTSC stations and since they (may) turn those off next year I can see why a company selling a DVDR deck today wouldn't want a bunch of angry customers when the EPG stops working a year later. Anyone know if there is a new free EPG for our new digital age being transmitted? Yes, I know cable/sat boxes have one but I mean an EPG that also works interactively with the DVD recorder's timer event recordings.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197

If you're OTA only, and don't mind the missing DVD burner(HDD only) the echostar device is supposed to have an EPG that will work past '09. Last I heard it should be available early summer.

I need cable, but thanks.

Here's another option coming. Notice, again, another reference to a way to get 2 hrs. on a standard dvd, then play it in an HD player (Blu-ray in this case). Apparently, this h.264 compression is supposed to give very good HD results as low bit-rate. Even if we could get 1 hour onto a dvd at good, hi-def quality, look at the possibilities: dual layer getting about 1:45, good enough for most movies, or split onto 2 standard dvds at about 30 cents apiece. Blu-ray blanks are about $20.00, even if you were able to get a standalone recorder. http://brentevans.blogspot.com/2008/01/hauppauge-demos-pvr-recorder-to-record.html

In case you missed it in my previous post, here's the link within the link, that talks about getting 2 hrs. on a dvd (4th paragraph). http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080110006038&newsLang=en

hello, newbie here, so can this moviefactory program mentioned above make back-up copies of blue ray disks?

hello? anyone there?

Sorry, I'm not dead sure since I don't own it but if no one else replies here are my assumptions:

Copies of blue ray material recorded originally from your own external camcorder footage- Yes


Copies of blue ray material recorded originally from network, unscrambled ,TV shows - Yes


Copies of blue ray material recorded originally from most cable companies or satellite at full HD resolution - No, with the possible exception of Fios.

Copies of blue ray material recorded originally from an ATI cablecard tuner computer package such as the Dell 420, including premiuim cable networks like HBO, Cinemax etc- Yes, however the disks can't be played back on any other computer other than the one that made the original recording. So they won't play in a PS3 or external player from Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp etc.

Copies of blue ray material bought, such as common movies you buy in a store- NO.

hello, newbie here, so can this moviefactory program mentioned above make back-up copies of blue ray disks?No, it does not.

Three questions; why don't DVDR's have built-in HD receivers, why aren't they able to record in HD, and why aren't they able to record in 5.1 surround sound? These aren't new technologies. Just seems to me like the companies that make DVDR's are dragging their feet on this.

HD, or Blu-ray, is new tech. They will sell such recorders when they think they can make money on them, but they will probably have lots of copy protection features, so we may not be able to burn hi-def discs of HBO, i.e.

They don't record in DD 5.1, because if they did, commercial discs would lose the advantage of having the advanced audio.

Probably non-Hi-def DVDRs don't have HD receivers because they won't record in Hi-def, and that would add considerably to the cost. Most of us here think they should make SD DVDRs with HDDs, that can record hi-def to the HDD, even if it can't record it to disc, and output that hi-def recording to the TV, as well as hi-def signals from its tuner. But, all that would make a much more costly machine, which probably wouldn't sell that well, considering that so many people use HD DVRs from their cable companies.

The weird thing is that they once did make combo units that had an HD DVR with built-in HD Cablecard Cable Tuner so you could record HD, even HBO, at full res and then dump it to the DVDR in 480 SD mode (not sure about the 5.1 sound part though, they may have downgraded it to 2.0).

The question is why did they stop?

edit: oops, I thought the Sony DHG-HDD500 had a DVD recorder in it, but I see now it doesn't. I think in Japan Panasonic may still make such a design though. I'll report back if I find one.

This is a similar Sony that does have a DVDR and HDD but I'm not sure what kind of tuner:http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/sony-rdr-hx715/4505-6463_7-31307455.html?tag=also

Close but no cablecard tuner from Panny: http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/panasonic-dmr-e95hs/4505-6463_7-30973746.html

Why did all these sort of designs disappear?

Three questions . . . why aren't they able to record in 5.1 surround sound? . . . Just seems to me like the companies that make DVDR's are dragging their feet on this.Well first of all, the issue of recording 5.1 digital sound was completely moot until the advent of digital tuners in recorders. The only way to get 5.1 sound into a recorder is through a digital input -- either a line-in or a digital tuner. No DVDR's have digital audio inputs so that only leaves the tuner. We are only just starting to see the second generation of DVDR's with digital tuners and it doesn't look like there is a whole lot of difference between gen-I & II. That means the tuners are still the same low-end components; they still receive digital signals and output only 480 video and 2.0 audio for both viewing and recording.

IMHO, recording 5.1 audio would lead to less than satisfactory results for most people. 5.1 audio takes up a lot of room on the disk. Many people consider a 2hr SP recording to be the minimum acceptable bitrate for decent PQ using today's realtime encoders. Even at that they are bit-starved compared to the bitrates used in commercial double layer DVDs. Recording 5.1 audio in SP mode would starve them even more and negatively impact PQ. The only mode where you could safely record in 5.1 would be 1hr XP and I don't think it would make a lot a of people happy if they could only get 1hr of decent picture and 5.1 sound on a disk. Don't forget the target market is VCR replacement where people are used to putting 6hr on a tape.

HD, or Blu-ray, is new tech. They will sell such recorders when they think they can make money on them, but they will probably have lots of copy protection features, so we may not be able to burn hi-def discs of HBO, i.e.

They don't record in DD 5.1, because if they did, commercial discs would lose the advantage of having the advanced audio.

Probably non-Hi-def DVDRs don't have HD receivers because they won't record in Hi-def, and that would add considerably to the cost. Most of us here think they should make SD DVDRs with HDDs, that can record hi-def to the HDD, even if it can't record it to disc, and output that hi-def recording to the TV, as well as hi-def signals from its tuner. But, all that would make a much more costly machine, which probably wouldn't sell that well, considering that so many people use HD DVRs from their cable companies.

I havent tried this, but I will tonight. I had this question for a very long time, on 5.1 surround recording in DVRs. when I try to recode using nero to add a better menu compared to the one created in my Toshiba D-R400, nero recognizes only stereo audio stream.

Has anyone tried passing the audio Cable receivers (Tivo, Scientific Atlanta etc) to Home Theater Receiver through Digital Input, and from Cable Receiver to DVRs ( Yellow, White, Red cables ) ? Would this result in an encoded 5.1 or will the end result be Stereo as we use composite cables.

Just Curious....

I havent tried this, but I will tonight. I had this question for a very long time, on 5.1 surround recording in DVRs. when I try to recode using nero to add a better menu compared to the one created in my Toshiba D-R400, nero recognizes only stereo audio stream.

Has anyone tried passing the audio Cable receivers (Tivo, Scientific Atlanta etc) to Home Theater Receiver through Digital Input, and from Cable Receiver to DVRs ( Yellow, White, Red cables ) ? Would this result in an encoded 5.1 or will the end result be Stereo as we use composite cables.

Just Curious....All DVDR's only have 2 channel sound input. You can't record 5.1.

Although I don't think they ever released any in the US, Philips had DVD recorders in other markets that had digital audio in that could record 5.1. They also had (have?) recorders with component video in (480i only).

I was only referring to the US market.

Here's a Philips with 5.1 digital in which had the Gemstar EPG and an NTSC tuner so I think it had to have been destined for the US. I wonder why they would go to such lengths as to photograph a prototype and release this spec sheet yet never bring it to market? :confused: Seems like an awful waste of time:

http://www.dvdplusrw.org/video/leaflets/dvdr740_us.pdf

Interesting. A very early model, probably full of bugs, spec sheet dated 12/2003. No HDD. Probably not released because in this era with the Panasonic, Pioneer and Toshiba models dominating the landscape, who would give Philips a second look.

It was out here - I briefly had one. Had no bugs that I know of, but I didn't care at all for the PQ.

Wish I'd have kept it now in hindsight, for the 5.1 and component input. Probably worth a lot. But it was my first DVD recorder, and I didn't know any better. Got it pretty cheap as a display model from the local Tweeter.

Cool unit, man how far we have come with DVDR's........NOT!:mad:
This unit has all the features people want: Component inputs, 5.1 audio, records both VCD and also audio CD's, has TV guide, IR blaster, DV in, 8hrs/disc!
Too bad Panasonic or Pioneer never made such a feature packed unit. If they did they would be going for a kings ransom that's for sure.
I agree Ramm, in hind site it would have been a cool little unit to keep, although like you I probably would have returned it if it had subpar PQ. After all PQ was the whole reason for me switching from VHS in the first place. Oh and the small discs too:D
If it weren't for copyright holders having there way one can only imagine how great a DVDR could be:p

I've owned some Philips and think they were quite nice. They had lots of features that set them apart at the time: Region free hackable, component video in, passive pass through (when turned off the inputs are routed to the output jacks, useful in that it frees up an input on your video switcher in some cases), TV guide EPG which worked interactively with the supplied IR blaster to change your cable box (even with some Tivo-like options thrown in), manual audio record level option instead of just the standard AGC compression circuit (which kills the dynamic range), PCM CD quality audio record option instead of just Dolby 2.0 (which is compressed like an MP3 file is), an 8 hr mode (it sucked visually) which as far as I know still kept the audio quite nice and getting 8 hr of audio on a disk that will play back on any DVD player (even ones that aren't MP3 compatible) might have had some value to some people back when MP3 DVD wasn't as standard as it is now, 2.5 hour speed that seemed about as good as 2 hour (great for a movie that runs just a little long without having to go to the crappy speeds). The unit's firmware also was upgradeable via the Gemstar EPG signal (no, not just the TV Guide part, the whole unit) and I once called them about a problem that the unit had (inability to switch between my city's primitive dual trunk A/B cable system), they said they'd work on it and a couple of weeks later they sent through a new firmware patch which had a cure! :) Wow.

In 2/2.5 hr mode I was quite content; the other speeds were so poor I never used them other than once when I was archiving old EP VHS tapes where it didn't much matter..

Jjef, none had DVI in. They had firewire/IEEE 1394/ "i-link" camcorder in only (it didn't work as an "out" also).

I saw the i-link and thought maybe that was the same as DV in, which many current DVDR's have. Other than that no current US DVDR even comes close as far as features.
Interesting about your note on PQ. The the reasons I got rid of my Philips 3575 was because that unit drops resolution on any speed above 2 hrs. I almost could have lived with a 2 1/2 hr full resolution, but really prefer about 3hrs on my Panny's. So many of my movies are about 2 1/2 hrs long, and I don't want to spend the extra for DD discs.
Interesting how Philips has now dropped the 8hr speed in favor of the 6hr. Maybe they got so many complaints about PQ. Panny does have 8hr but it does drop the fidelity of the sound. 6hr retains full sound quality.
Talk about poor PQ, one of the units I tested a few years ago (can't remember brand) actually had a 10hr speed! My god I remember it was so AWFUL it almost made me sick that someone would use that speed, and I'm sure some people did.

I saw the i-link and thought maybe that was the same as DV in, which many current DVDR's have. Other than that no current US DVDR even comes close as far as features.

To clarify they do have DV in, not DVI in, which is what you wrote in that post.

DV in = i-link = IEEE1394 = camcorder in = firewire:

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/lifestyle/2001/l4PinFirewireJack.jpeg


DVI, digital visual interface, is the earlier form of HDMI (but didn't include digital audio or commands):

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/graphics/infolib/homelib/dvi_output_jack200.jpg

DVI and HDMI are heavily copy protected so video recording devices never sport such inputs, only outputs.

Oops:o I'll correct that. Typo on my part. I do know the difference, guess just my fingers didn't:D

I happened to stroll through Best Buy today and saw the current Philips (something like 3454 model number, I dunno). It didn't have a single one of the cool features I mentioned (except maybe the 2.5 hr speed, I only looked at the outside of the box). Seems the world is moving backwards! :mad: It didn't have any tuner of any kind. give me clear QAM and component inputs g*d d*mn it.

It's kind of hilarious when you think about it that legally if they have any kind of tuner it must be ATSC, yet none of them record a widescreen image anamorphicly compressed. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the way the current units still do it? What idiocy.

I don't believe DVDR's with ATSC tuners have a problem properly recording widescreen content or playing it back properly on a 16:9 display.

Can an ATSC tuner equipped DVD recorder owner confirm this (regarding 16X9 internal tuner recordings)? Other posts say Panasonics will do it only with RAM DVDs (no thanks). Obviously I'd want one that can sense the wide screen flag, record it properly, and pass the flag along to the display. Others have said that some brands like Sony let you select it per recording, which is better than nothing I suppose.

Thanks ppl.

In an effort to possibly save some repetition in posts, and avoid confusion, this seems to be a question that pops up once a week or so.

No current DVD recorder, available in the American market at least, will record high definition content IN HIGH DEFINITION RESOLUTION. DVD recorders can only record in standard definition which is 480i. You cannot record in 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p.

You CAN record hi definition content from a sat box or STB, depending on the hookup, but at best it will be in 480i resolution. The recordings should still be very good, they just won't be in high definition. Your STB or source signal has to be able to transmit the hi-def content via component, S video or composite- -not all do. NOTE--If you have a Directv Hi def box (and this may apply to other STBs) you need to manually SET the Directv box to output at 480i OR YOU WILL NOT GET A SIGNAL WHEN YOU HOOK IT UP TO A DVD RECORDER! Until the HD format wars are resolved and we start seeing some HD-DVD players, HD-DVD recorders are still a ways off.

Even if you have a hi-def DVR like a Directivo, while the Directivo will store the high def signal to its hard drive, so you can watch in high definition from your Directivo or Dish hard drive, it is downconverted to 480i when outputted to a DVD recorder for archiving(and it does not even stay in the digital domain, as it has to be converted to analog, then back to digital).

The only current way to actually record in hi-def resolution, other than a hi-def STB hard drive, is via a D-VHS recorder.


AUDIO ADDENDUM: No current DVD recorders can record a Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS multichannel digital signal either. Recorders have digital OUTPUTS (usually optical, some coaxial), but only record in Dolby Digital 2.0 or uncompressed PCM digital stereo audio. No standalone DVD recorders have digital audio inputs or allow recording of a 5.1 signal at this time. PCM audio is uncompressed,unlike DD, and is far superior than DD 2.0 for sound quality, especially for music. Beware the cheap DVD recorder brands, as many only have mono tuners and won't even record in stereo.


Guys, I hope I am not posting something for the 1000th time in this thread. :(
But I have to ask…
The last time the OP was updated was two years ago. I don’t have time to wade through page after page of posts.
Is it still impossible to record material from a DVR to a DVD recorder as the OP indicated two years ago?
I would like to think technology has changed since 2006.

Thanks in advance!

Guys, I hope I am not posting something for the 1000th time in this thread. :(
But I have to ask…
The last time the OP was updated was two years ago. I don’t have time to wade through page after page of posts.
Is it still impossible to record material from a DVR to a DVD recorder as the OP indicated two years ago?
I would like to think technology has changed since 2006.

Thanks in advance!

It has. However, I don't think the Panasonic (AVCHD) and Toshiba (3xDVD) models that record HD to DVD are in the US, yet. Moreover, with HD DVD pretty much dead and buried (LG still supports the format.), I don't think models have much life left in them.

http://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdrecorderfaqs/f/dvdrecgfaq14.htm


More High-Definition Recording on Standard DVDs...With a Catch

Panasonic and Toshiba both announced at the CEATEC 2007 exhibition, that they are incorporating new technology that allows the recording of high definition on standard DVDs. However, there are three caveats:

First, the formats used by Panasonic and Toshiba are incompatible with each other.

Second, the new technology is only being incorporated in Blu-ray and HD-DVD recorders that are available exclusively in the Japanese market so far. There is no official word if this technology will be incorporated into standard DVD recorders.

Three, the HD-recorded DVDs can only be played back on a compatible Blu-ray Disc or HD-DVD player - they cannot be played back on standard DVD players, in their present configuration.

Can an ATSC tuner equipped DVD recorder owner confirm this (regarding 16X9 internal tuner recordings)? Other posts say Panasonics will do it only with RAM DVDs (no thanks). Obviously I'd want one that can sense the wide screen flag, record it properly, and pass the flag along to the display. Others have said that some brands like Sony let you select it per recording, which is better than nothing I suppose.

Thanks ppl.
Yes I believe all DVDR's(Panny and Philips 3575 for sure) can record WS material to a standard DVD(from the tuner or line input), the problem is none set the flag. You will need a simple PC program to do that(I don't bother since I only have WS TV's). What happens on any disc other than RAM's w/Panasonics is when you play the disc back on a 4x3 TV the picture is vertically compressed. People look tall and skinny since the whole 16x9 frame is squeezed into the 4x3 frame. It works fine for 16x9 TV's but not so well for 4x3 sets.

Guys, I hope I am not posting something for the 1000th time in this thread. :(
But I have to ask…
The last time the OP was updated was two years ago. I don’t have time to wade through page after page of posts.
Is it still impossible to record material from a DVR to a DVD recorder as the OP indicated two years ago?
I would like to think technology has changed since 2006.

Thanks in advance!
Basically nothing has changed since 2006 in this regard. Many people are waiting for standalone BR recorders(that will actually record anything other than home videos). Some people use their PC to record HD to a standard DVD in a HD format not compatible with a standard DVD player and get 40-50 min. of HD material on the disc. You can decide yourself how useful that would be. To me it's too short.

Guys, I hope I am not posting something for the 1000th time in this thread. :(
But I have to ask…
The last time the OP was updated was two years ago. I don’t have time to wade through page after page of posts.
Is it still impossible to record material from a DVR to a DVD recorder as the OP indicated two years ago?
I would like to think technology has changed since 2006.

Thanks in advance!There are no DVD recorders in the US market that will record a hi-def signal to removable media. All US available recorders take in a signal and down-convert it (if needed) to 480i before recording onto DVD. No US available recorder records 5.1 sound to removable media. All audio is converted to 2.0 before recording to DVD.

The #1 post of this thread is unlikely to ever be updated, the OP got himself banned from the forum 2 years ago.

What happens on any disc other than RAM's w/Panasonics is when you play the disc back on a 4x3 TV the picture is vertically compressed. People look tall and skinny since the whole 16x9 frame is squeezed into the 4x3 frame. It works fine for 16x9 TV's but not so well for 4x3 sets.


You sure? That would mean anyone with a 4x3 TV would consider the product defective. None of those sets have any aspect ratio control to compensate. "My VCR never squeezed TV shows like this!" Stores would be getting returns left and right, I'd think. Keep in mind there are still billions of 4x3 sets out there and they still sell them even! (I'm all 16x9 also, so I wouldn't care either, but I still don't see how they could get away with this as you've described it.) Do you own an ATSC tuner DVD recorder yourself?

You sure? That would mean anyone with a 4x3 TV would consider the product defective. None of them have any aspect ratio control to compensate. "My VCR never squeezed TV shows like this!" Stores would be getting returns left and right, I'd think. Keep in mind there are still billions of 4x3 sets out there and they still sell them even! (I'm all 16x9 also, so I wouldn't care either, but I still don't see how they could get away with this as you've described it.) Do you own an ATSC tuner DVD recorder yourself?
My Philips 3575's don't produce tall & skinny people... I can barely notice a very slightly squeezed aspect when viewing a 16:9 WS program on my 4:3 TV, as described in the para. "On a 3575 and a Pansonic combo unit,..." towards the bottom of this post. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12371974&postcount=62)

Wajo, thanks, this makes more sense to me. From that post it seems the Philips, Pio, and Panasonic all have two different aspect ratio menu selections. The common one found on all DVD machines for playback, usually 16x9 WS/ 4x3 LTRBX/ 4x3 Pan and Scan, and a different one for the record mode with only two options:

"4:3 LB Rec" or

"16:9 Wide Rec".

Correct? Out of curiosity, can one make a mixed disc with some TV shows recorded 4:3 LB and others 16:9 Wide Rec or does the first recording placed on the disc lock any future recordings to that same mode even though the DVD recorder has been switched to the other mode?

Wajo, thanks, this makes more sense to me. From that post it seems the Philips, Pio, and Panasonic all have two different aspect ratio menu selections. The common one found on all DVD machines for playback, usually 16x9 WS/ 4x3 LTRBX/ 4x3 Pan and Scan, and a different one for the record mode with only two options:

"4:3 LB Rec" or

"16:9 Wide Rec".

Correct? Out of curiosity, can one make a mixed disc with some TV shows recorded 4:3 LB and others 16:9 Wide Rec or does the first recording placed on the disc lock any future recordings to that same mode even though the DVD recorder has been switched to the other mode?
On my 3575's, the aspect settings are for recording and for playback of commercial anamorphic WS movies.

There's also a 4:3 Pan & Scan setting.

I can mix titles with different rec modes and aspect settings in my real-time and high-speed dubs.

It has. However, I don't think the Panasonic (AVCHD) and Toshiba (3xDVD) models that record HD to DVD are in the US, yet. Moreover, with HD DVD pretty much dead and buried (LG still supports the format.), I don't think models have much life left in them.

http://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdrecorderfaqs/f/dvdrecgfaq14.htm

Actually, I am just looking to record SD material as well.
Is that possible to record from a DVR to a recordable DVD player?


Gosh... great responses guys. Thanks for all of your advice!

You sure? That would mean anyone with a 4x3 TV would consider the product defective. None of those sets have any aspect ratio control to compensate. "My VCR never squeezed TV shows like this!" Stores would be getting returns left and right, I'd think. Keep in mind there are still billions of 4x3 sets out there and they still sell them even! (I'm all 16x9 also, so I wouldn't care either, but I still don't see how they could get away with this as you've described it.) Do you own an ATSC tuner DVD recorder yourself?
Yes I own several:D What I meant is if in the menu for the DVDR you have setup the recorder for 16x9 screen output the recorder will record the whole 16x9 if that's what the DVDR is feed(either by tuner or say another DVDR). If on the other hand you set your DVDR up for 4x3 output the recorder will only record in 4x3 normal mode. This mode will look fine on a 4x3 TV, but if you play this disc on a 16x9 TV you will be missing the sides. If you "stretch 4x3 to fill 16x9 screen" it will fill the screen, but people will be all fat.
Due to this even if I now had a 4x3 TV I would probably set my DVDR for 16x9 recording if I was planning on getting a 16x9 TV in the near future.
Once the DVD has been recorded missing the sides you can never get them back. All you have is a 4x3 recording. Does this make more sense?
I would think the reason people don't return their DVDR's is because they have set the output for 4x3, but are missing recording the sides if they are recording a 16x9 program.

Actually, I am just looking to record SD material as well.
Is that possible to record from a DVR to a recordable DVD player?


No problem using S or composite output of your DVR. Note some(not many) programs be CP'd and would not copy without a external filter of some type.

Jjef, got it . Thanks. Too bad WS flags don't get recorded properly though, if they did then one could record anamorphically all the time and 4x3 TV playback would be accommodated as well since the machine would know when to unsqueeze and present LTRBX or P&S if one had selected that in the playback options menu. Broadcasts do have the flag don't they?

I think they must, I know I don't do anything special to my TV, and when a program is in WS the screen is full side to side, and when it's 4x3 it has black bars on the side. Actually I don't really profess to know all the ins and outs of the whole flag issue. I just know some people change the flag with a simple computer program. I really only use WS TV's now so it really doesn't bother me but it sure would have been nice if DVDR mfg's had straightened the whole thing out a long time ago. I believe Toshiba had players that would set the flag and that was years ago. I don't believe the current Toshiba's do though. I really don't know what's the big deal getting it set by the DVDR's themselves. And why do just RAM's get it set on Panny's, why not R or RW's:confused:

Ugh, I just saw the new Panny DMREZ28 and 48 at BB. No Domino 5 chip yet so we have to wait yet another generation. :mad:
Every thing seemed identical except it mentioned it can play HD-JPEG pics I presume from the USB (no mention if it was 2.0) or the SDHC card reader. Warning: When I last looked into this a few years ago because some HD-JPEG machines were showing up (Samsung, Toshiba IIRC ) it was total BS for most of them. Sure it could read the file but then it would interpolate the image to low quality 640x480 (VGA or so) and then re-interpolate it up to 1080i to travel down the HDMI wire to your HD display. ARGH!!!:mad: Can't they get anything right? Roku made the real deal machines (sans DVD section) that could do this and once you've seen true HD still pics on a HD display there's no going back to SD.

P.S. The Panny's still lie and say on them, "Record one program while you watch another". The clear implication is that you can watch a live TV broadcast (in *cough* 480i SD) while the machine records a different one. With only one tuner that isn't going to work now is it. ;) I assume they mean that with a pricey RAM disk you can "chase play" as they used to call it, or record while watching a different section with a pre-recorded show; it isn't live. 99% of the public is being duped.

Jjef, got it . Thanks. Too bad WS flags don't get recorded properly though, if they did then one could record anamorphically all the time and 4x3 TV playback would be accommodated as well since the machine would know when to unsqueeze and present LTRBX or P&S if one had selected that in the playback options menu. Broadcasts do have the flag don't they?

There are some DVD recorders that will record the WS flag but they won't set it. I have 2 Pioneer DVD recorders that both recognize and record the WS flag when present on the source material.

I have two sources of "WS-flagged" widescreen programs.
1. My DV camcorder has a setting for "widescreen" that actually outputs anamorphic video with the WS flag included.
2. For recording from HD widescreen programs stored on my HD DirecTiVo, I connect the video using S-video and audio using L+R analog stereo cables. I add a converter box in series with the S-video connection. That box, Video Filter, adds the WS flag/signal into the VBI portion of the video signal.

From either of those two sources, and from edited WS DV movies from my Mac computer, I get excellent recordings of widescreen programs with the WS flag that enables DVD players to letterbox or pan and scan widescreen shows just like you would with an "Enhanced for Widescreen" commercial DVD.

Again, both of my older Pioneer DVD recorders (210 and 520H models) record this way fine. According to the user manuals, the newer Pioneers also recognize and record the WS flag.

Some Sony and Toshiba recorders actually allow the user to specify insertion of the WS flag while recording. I have not owned either of these, so I can't say which models.

The video recordings look excellent, mainly because the source is very clean video.

No problem using S or composite output of your DVR. Note some(not many) programs be CP'd and would not copy without a external filter of some type.

THank you... !

as far as i can tell, it appears that the new tosh dr-410 dvdr gives the options in the record menu to record in either 16x9 or 4x3. which is what we want for proper dvd appearance on both widescreen and fullscreen tvs.
there is an entire thread on the 410.

Can the Firewire output from a HD STB be easily converted to a DV signal that can be accepted by a DVD recorder, in order to record an anamorphic WS image? I realize it will not be HD, but at least full screen and not wasting pixels recording black bars.

I understand that you can record Firewire video to a computer. And I see Firewire PC cards costing about $30. And that you can save & edit in the DV format. So converting must be relatively easy to do. But how about a stand alone converter?

I’ve looked and have not found, but does such a converter already exist in the Mac computer world?

Ok, this post might run a little long because I want to explain, in detail, what I am trying to do. I have read a few post in this thread and I understand that you still can't record in HD, but there are so many pages, it would take a long time to try to find one that specifically addressed my situation. I am not a novice, but I am not advanced either. I don't understand a lot of the really technical jargon (bit rates, pulldown converting, etc) So, if you are patient and willing to help me out, please read on...

I have two DVD Recorders (in different rooms). They are both Panasonic (DMR-EA18 and DMR-ES25). The ES-25 is hooked up to a Sharp 37D90U and a DirecTV HD receiver, and the EA18 is hooked up to a Sony Bravia KDL-32L4000 and an Insight HD cable box. Neither DVD Recorder has an HDMI or component input.

I have recorded shows that were in HD on the ES25 (I know the recordings aren't really HD), and when played back on either TV, the picture fills up the screen as if it were HD and looks pretty good. That's what I want. However, on the EA18 the same kind of recording does not fill up the screen and doesn't look nearly as good. I have tried experimenting with the settings on both the TV and the cable box to no avail. The recorders are in the same family and discs started on one machine can be finished on the other. They have basically the same features.

So, I am assuming that the problem is the source. The HD picture from my cable box directly to the Sony TV via an HDMI cable looks great, so I know it outputs the HD signal fine. The problem I guess comes in when you use AV cables or an S-Video cable to output to the DVD Recorder. However, why is that not a problem with the other setup (the ES25, DirecTV, Sharp)? And is there any way that I will be able to make recordings that resemble the HD picture, albeit in SD, like the other setup can? Thanks in advance

Are you able to physically swap the EA-18 and ES-25 to verify both STB are indeed outputting 16:9 to S-video?
Another option would be to run the s-video cable directly to your TV and see if that is indeed 16:9. I'm assuming the STBs are different and not all STBs output WS to anything other than component or Digital outputs.
Your correct that the ES-25 and EA-18 should both record the WS if fed that type of signal. Just make sure you have the EA-18 setup for 16:9 output. I know on the EZ-28 anyway having the output set for 4:3 it will not record in WS. Not positive about the tunerless EA-18.

Are you able to physically swap the EA-18 and ES-25 to verify both STB are indeed outputting 16:9 to S-video?
Another option would be to run the s-video cable directly to your TV and see if that is indeed 16:9. I'm assuming the STBs are different and not all STBs output WS to anything other than component or Digital outputs.
Your correct that the ES-25 and EA-18 should both record the WS if fed that type of signal. Just make sure you have the EA-18 setup for 16:9 output. I know on the EZ-28 anyway having the output set for 4:3 it will not record in WS. Not positive about the tunerless EA-18.

Thanks for the reply. After further experimenting it appears that the problem is that the cable box's output doesn't allow displaying the HD programs in a widescreen format, or more accurately to fill up the screen on a 16:9 TV, when you use non-HD cables. The exact same setup in the other room does. The only differences are the TVs, but that doesn't seem to be the problem, and the sources (DirecTV receiver vs. Insight Cable box).

If this doesn't make sense to anyone and they think they know what the real problem is, I am all ears. Thanks again.

I have consistently used my Panny VHS/DVD Recorder connected to my DirecTV HD DVR thru S-Video to digitize widescreen and 4:3 content to a DVD-RW.

I then rip the DVD-RW to my Mac, use MPEG Streamclip to trim, edit & chop the content, as desired and Export it to H.264 for archival in my video library and playback on my AppleTV (speeding up the process with the Elgato Turbo.264 USB hardware encoding stick).

I just recorded 3 more shows this morning. I erase and reuse the DVD-RW until it fails and then I just replace it with another.

Note: the DirecTV HD DVR has a Format button with 3 modes, one of which is perfect to zoom a SD letterboxed program out to full widescreen for subsequent digitization which will not require cropping on the other end.

silentsaregolden, then I'm sure that's it. Many people run into that problem where their STB doesn't output WS over S-video or composite. I'm not sure what to tell you other than double check that their isn't a setting on your STB to enable WS over those outputs or else try and get another STB that does.
Their were a few DVDRs that had component inputs but most weren't that great quality and they're all quite old now. Their was also a thread a while back where someone was using a Apple TV device to convert component to S-video but I'm not sure if that's still a valid option.

Their was also a thread a while back where someone was using a Apple TV device to convert component to S-video but I'm not sure if that's still a valid option.
Sure is, here (http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html), plus according to Nextoo's tests (esp. posts 3,4 5) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828063&highlight=apple+tv+converter), it strips CP!

Don't most modern receivers convert component to s-video these days?

Yes, but most/many also letterbox WS programs when sent thru Composite or S-Video outputs... the converter preserves that WS aspect. It does this w/o requiring the receiving DVDR to have Component input, of which there are virtually none.

Silents: You may want to reconsider your programming archival strategy. Discs are so yesterday.

The future and it's already here, is network storage of programming and streaming to your various HDTVs.

Many people use HTPCs; I personally prefer the AppleTV. I own two of them and they are "upgraded" to play all of my video collection from the 1T Maxtor external hard disc connected to my desktop computer and networked all over the house. One of them has a 160G internal hard disk and my wife travels with it so that she can keep up with her watching needs.

It sure beats trying to find a DVD when the moment of interest strikes, and I don't miss all of that burning, either.

That being said: of course you need the ability to output in widescreen aspect ratio, so as to keep that ability for file creation. As I mostly use my DirecTV HD receiver as a source, as you already know, its S-Video output maintains the widescreen aspect ratio. Also for SD Letterboxed content, the Format button on the DirecTV remote has a format that zooms the program into full widescreen for proper capture.

For your cable box, see if they offer a different cable box. If not, and if the component to S-Video adapter solution suggested by others does not do the trick, you can always digitize in letterboxed mode and then "crop" out the black bars later (which, by the way, is what I have to do to letterboxed 12" LaserDiscs that I convert to my video library).

silents, I agree with jjeff. It seems few STBs will output a 16x9 picture squeezed to 4x3 over their S-Vid outs, but I am not familiar with either of your boxes. My Comcast Moto will not let me make anamorphic discs, so just be glad that you have one STB that will!

I'm not so sure that m. zillch is right. I know my Denon 3805 doesn't down-convert component to S-Vid. It only upconverts. I think that is the case for most receivers.

I'm not so sure that m. zillch is right. I know my Denon 3805 doesn't down-convert component to S-Vid. It only upconverts. I think that is the case for most receivers.

I checked your owner's manual. You are right that it doesn't, but the AVR-3808CI that I guess replaced yours does, at least with a 480i signal. Maybe such conversion is only common on very recent units or ones that also have HDMI switching (kind of the same as recent units in a sense). I wonder if they all unsqueeze though. In the setup pages of such units do they ask what is your display's aspect ratio? If they do I would think they should intelligently know that you don't want your component 480i converted to s-vid letter boxed if you respond that your display is 16x9.

THat would be a good reason to buy a new AVR, if I could then make anamorphic DVDs using the component out from my Moto, to the AVR, then to the DVDR with S-Vid. But, I'm not sure what you mean by "at least with a 480i signal?"

I'm 99% sure they mean if the receiver's incoming component signal is 720p or 1080i/p it will not down convert to s-video. This means you would have to have the source device (cable box, sat box etc) down convert any HD signals to SD (480i) so as to have the receiver then convert them to s-vid for you. Not a big deal, but not ideal. Ideally it would be nice to at least be able to watch the show in HD resolution as you were dubbing it to DVD, which you can't with the AVR-3808CI.

Before you go buying a new receiver to do this we need to verify two things:

A) The Moto box itself doesn't change the squeezed form of its component out when set to 480i out. (I'm not too worried about it though)
B) The receiver one is considering also doesn't unsqueeze and letter box the signal when converting 480i component to s-video. (wajo writes in post #397 that many/most do)

So, the new ones don't really down-convert. And, I don't believe that my Moto box will let me output 1080i, or 720p, as 480i, over component. So, still no anamorphic DVDs for me. :(

Oh, well. I didn't really want to spend money on a new receiver anyway.

Love your name Squonk and the song as well. Did you see Genesis last year? Saw them in San Jose and in L.A. AWESOME!!!! Hey, I have a Toshiba D-VKR3 which is going on 3 yrs old. Bought at Costco and it was rated highly by consumers at the time. I have Directv HD DVRs as well. I have been having issues lately with shows that I record are breaking up and pixelated (?). It seems it is random at times. I ran a DVD cleaner disc (Costco product) through several times thinking the laser was dirty and the recordings still have pixelation especially the HD shows it seems. Could there be an issue like you mentioned with the Directv connection? It's odd that it just started a few months ago though. Don't know if the unit is just going B/O or if I should take it in to say a Best Buy geek squad for a cleaning? Looking into the Panasonic DMR-EA18K to replace. It has HDMI which should make things a little nicer. Plus with the cost of the cleaning, it might make sense to upgrade. Your thoughts? I am aware that Directv is going back to Tivo in mid 09 and those units will be upgradeable with larger external hard drives. That may be the only way to preserve true HD shows until HD recorders ever make it here in the U.S. I guess???

I would welcome a response from any member on the best way to archive recordings I make on my current Directv HD DVR. Or is there better technology on the near horizon. I am a new member and apologize for asking such a common question it seems.

You can already upgrade your Storage on the Directv DVR's with External Drives. Just plug it into the Esata port.

And just so you know, Squonk was banned from this forum many, many Mad Man Moons ago.

And just so you know, Squonk was banned from this forum many, many Mad Man Moons ago.Late March 2006, to be exact.

No promises but there are rumors Panasonic will announce a Blu-ray standalone recorder(s) for the US market at CES which starts in less than a week from today. They already exist in Japan I believe.

Bluray Standalone? Kool but it will cost how much? 1k?
I'd love a 720p recorder at this point.
Use the H.264 codec or whatever it's called. Use it in a standalone with HDMI input and can record on dual layer discs.
voila. get china in gear & make one..

Wow! Own a Panny DMR-E50. Still working I think but had some problems when recording so have not used it in awhile. Was thinking of upgrading as its been years since I first bought the unit and I figured that the capabilities of DVD recording would have progressed greatly by now.

So you people are saying that if I just wanted to record TV shows (mostly golf that could be 8hrs long), uses DVD +/-'s disks and record in 720p/1080i/p, I will not be able to get a recorder that could do this?

Thanks.

Panny 42-PZ80U (1080p)
SA 8300HDC (single HDMI in use to Panny)
Time Warner cable in Hawaii w/HD programing

So you people are saying that if I just wanted to record TV shows (mostly golf that could be 8hrs long), uses DVD +/-'s disks and record in 720p/1080i/p, I will not be able to get a recorder that could do this?


If disc burning isn't needed, a DVR can do this. Think TiVo or cableco DVR.

Otherwise, no, DVD recording maxed out when you bought your recorder, and as of now no Blu-Ray recorders are available in the US market (except for PC drives.) There are always rumors of BD recorders, but I'll believe it when I actually see it.

Wow! Own a Panny DMR-E50. Still working I think but had some problems when recording so have not used it in awhile. Was thinking of upgrading as its been years since I first bought the unit and I figured that the capabilities of DVD recording would have progressed greatly by now . . .

. . . I just wanted to record TV shows (mostly golf that could be 8hrs long), uses DVD +/-'s disks and record in 720p/1080i/p, I will not be able to get a recorder that could do this?

DVD Recorders did progress for a time. With the hasty introduction of the digital tuner Panasonic EZ series many bugs and design flaws appeared/reappeared. A number of workarounds became necessary to maintain basic functionality of EZ series machines.

As to recording problems with your good old Panasonic see this post and its links:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16606154#post16606154

The best "standard definition" HDD (hard disc drive)/DVD recorders with NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuners and extended hours of continuous recording, the Philips 3575/3576, and Magnavox 2080 and original production runs of the Magnavox 2160, are no longer available. (The problematic Magnavox 2160 "A" version may still be purchased. See wajo's sticky thread for latest updates concerning the 2160 "A" situation:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657

If disc burning isn't needed, a DVR can do this. Think TiVo or cableco DVR.

Otherwise, no, DVD recording maxed out when you bought your recorder, and as of now no Blu-Ray recorders are available in the US market (except for PC drives.) There are always rumors of BD recorders, but I'll believe it when I actually see it.

Thanks. Already have a DVR but was looking for another dvd burner.

DVD Recorders did progress for a time. With the hasty introduction of the digital tuner Panasonic EZ series many bugs and design flaws appeared/reappeared. A number of workarounds became necessary to maintain basic functionality of EZ series machines.

As to recording problems with your good old Panasonic see this post and its links:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16606154#post16606154

The best "standard definition" HDD (hard disc drive)/DVD recorders with NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuners and extended hours of continuous recording, the Philips 3575/3576, and Magnavox 2080 and original production runs of the Magnavox 2160, are no longer available. (The problematic Magnavox 2160 "A" version may still be purchased. See wajo's sticky thread for latest updates concerning the 2160 "A" situation:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657

Thanks. Seems like I might as well try to reconnect my Panny and see how it performs. No sense upgrading if I cannot record to DVD's in HD.

Hooked up the Panny DMR-E50. Only problem is that it does not recognize any of my old Panasonic DVD-RAM disks. Used to before.

However, at least it has no problems with Verbatium or TDK DVD -R disks. No other problems yet. Timer recording just came on so that works.

Oh well. Don't plan on using it much only when I tape golf for family/friends or some other show(s) that they do not get.

Thanks all,
Robert

Hello. I am looking to add specific capability to a bedroom system, and hoping for a recomendation. I figure a DVR would kill two birds...

- Want a digital tuner to tune in existing QAM channels (clear) from my comcast cable, and pass it along to my TV, preferably via HDMI.

- Would like to add 5.1 audio out capability to my bedroom system, so this new unit would replace my current DVD player.

- I don't really need to record DVDs in this room.

Many thanks!

J.

Hello. I am looking to add specific capability to a bedroom system, and hoping for a recomendation. I figure a DVR would kill two birds...

- Want a digital tuner to tune in existing QAM channels (clear) from my comcast cable, and pass it along to my TV, preferably via HDMI.

- Would like to add 5.1 audio out capability to my bedroom system, so this new unit would replace my current DVD player.

- I don't really need to record DVDs in this room.

Many thanks!

J.

Comcast is in the process of scrambling the Extended Basic clear QAM cable networks (excepting local must carry broadcast stations, government and public access, shopping and a few cable networks found below channel 30 or so). This "Network Enhancement" was implemented in my area earlier this month.

If you don't already need a Comcast STB or DTA you soon will, so don't make any future plans based upon clear QAM tuner-equipped devices.

Hello. I am looking to add specific capability to a bedroom system, and hoping for a recomendation. I figure a DVR would kill two birds...

- Want a digital tuner to tune in existing QAM channels (clear) from my comcast cable, and pass it along to my TV, preferably via HDMI.

- Would like to add 5.1 audio out capability to my bedroom system, so this new unit would replace my current DVD player.

- I don't really need to record DVDs in this room.
If you have a HDTV, I would recommend the Moxi.

The Moxi is available in dual-tuner and triple-tuner QAM versions. It will allow you to map ClearQAM channels on cable so they have guide data, which is something TiVo cannot do. When your Comcast system encrypts all of your channels except locals -- which they all plan to do -- then you can install a CableCard to tune those channels.

Check out the HDD Recorder comparison table (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17063966&postcount=2) in the HDTV Recorders forum.

Comcast is in the process of scrambling the Extended Basic clear QAM cable networks (excepting local must carry broadcast stations, government and public access, shopping and a few cable networks found below channel 30 or so). This "Network Enhancement" was implemented in my area earlier this month.

DigaDo, I live in the PacNW myself and noticed just this weekend (when trying to tune in the Apple cup) that most of my previous comcast QAM channels had gone black - this on the TV that had the digital tuner. However, upon reprogramming, I was able to find most of them again, but at new locations "on the dial." I haven't checked one-for-one, but it sure looked like almost all were still there, just at the new locales.

That doesn't speak for the future though. Would hate to see them go.

If you have a HDTV, I would recommend the Moxi.

Will check it out. Thanks bf.

I got my Directv HD DVR for free, so I hope it lasts awhile - it lets you connect to an external harddrive

With a 1TB hard drive, you can record up to 200 hours of HD programming.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/article.jsp?assetId=P5980155

I got my Directv HD DVR for free, so I hope it lasts awhile - it lets you connect to an external harddrive

With a 1TB hard drive, you can record up to 200 hours of HD programming.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/article.jsp?assetId=P5980155
Both Dish Network and DirecTV offer "free" dual-tuner HDTV DVRs for all new customers, and have for the past 18+ months. Existing customers typically pay $99, although long-time customers may be able to upgrade for free.

Keep in mind that both Dish Network and DirecTV lease the DVR; they require that you return it when you cancel service. Neither works without a satellite subscription, and neither works without their $6/mo DVR fee. That said, if you have (or plan to get) Dish or DirecTV, their HDTV DVR is more than worth the extra $6/mo. The box costs them $200-$250, and if you could buy and own it without fees, it would cost $400-$500.

The feature set on the Dish and DirecTV HDTV DVRs is similar to the TiVo and Moxi DVRs compared in my signature. All support expansion with external drives, allowing storage of hundreds of HD hours.

The feature set on the Dish and DirecTV HDTV DVRs is similar to the TiVo and Moxi DVRs compared in my signature. All support expansion with external drives, allowing storage of hundreds of HD hours.

I've had Directv for years - can't watch tv anymore without a DVR, but when I looked up these eSata external hard drives reviews it appears that Directv does not support them even though they advertise the drives on their homepage.

You have to connect it, then reboot your HD DVR receiver and it replaces the internal drive and you loose access to everything recorded on the internal drive until you disconnect it and then do the reboot thing again.

But I've read reviews of these expander drives say that when the Directv receiver software gets automatically updated that you lose everything you've saved on your external drive because the default changes from external to internal again and the receiver no longer recognizes the external drive. You have to reset it all again? That would suck.

I posted a similar question at the Philips DVDR3575H/37 thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17816030&posted=1#post17816030


A have an external device with component outputs and a Pyro A/V Link converter that will allow me to export an A/V signal via DV or S-Video to my DVD recorder. The DVD recorder has a 4 pin DV input or S-Video input. Which one of these will yield a higher quality image?

I'm assuming it's the DV input, but the Philips down-converts everything to SD, so I'm not even sure if it even matters.

...I'm assuming it's the DV input, but the Philips down-converts everything to SD, so I'm not even sure if it even matters.

DVD Recorders will only record in SD, hence the reason for this thread...

If you want to digitize in HD, look at the Hauppauge HD-PVR 1212 which will give you 1080 or 720 files, which can then be burned to Blu-Ray discs or regular DVDs (correctly formatted) that will play the HD on Blu-Ray players...

Thanks - should I/how do I move my post over there? Just copy & paste as a new thread there?
Mark

No current DVD recorder, available in the American market at least, will record high definition content IN HIGH DEFINITION RESOLUTION. DVD recorders can only record in standard definition which is 480i. You cannot record in 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p.

Okay that post... the first post in this thread on the first page of this thread was way back on June 2005... It is now January 2010.

Could we please have an update on this topic's subject line? Is this thread's subject line still TRUE? or... Are their any DVD recorders that can record in high defintion?

Thanks.

Update Jan 2010: No current DVD recorder, available in the American market at least, will record high definition content IN HIGH DEFINITION RESOLUTION. DVD recorders can only record in standard definition which is 480i. You cannot record in 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p.

See this forum for HDTV recorders. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=42)

To expand on this a bit:

All DVD recorders (for the North American market at least) can receive high-definition channels via OTA or clear QAM, but they all downconvert those channels to SD, both for recording and for immediate viewing.

This means that the HDMI outputs on these recorders don't reproduce the original signal when set to display in 720p and upwards. They upconvert the SD which was produced by the original downconversion, which cannot restore the data that was lost in the downconversion.

So these units aren't even suitable for use as HD tuners for OTA or clear QAM.

To expand on this a bit:

All DVD recorders (for the North American market at least) can receive high-definition channels via OTA or clear QAM, but they all downconvert those channels to SD, both for recording and for immediate viewing.
Just to clarify this a bit further:

DVD recorders downconvert HD signals thru the tuner or line inputs, but most will pass the HD signal thru the coax, untouched, for immediate viewing (tuning) with your HD STB or your HD TV.

Since the standard for DVD is 480 I doubt we'll ever see anything different. Now it is possible to record HD (720, 1080) to DVD (using a computer or a special foreign DVDR) but that DVD would not play on any standard DVD players, only select BR players.

I don't have a lot of knowledge on any of this stuff, but I have a question. I've had a HDD DVD Recorder (Panasonic DMR-E85H) for about 6 years, and I know that it's not HD. I have an HDTV (Samsung 650), and now I've gotten a Comcast HD DVR. I want to copy things from the Comcast DVR to the Panasonic so that I can burn them to DVDs, and I am able to do that. But when I take something that fills the screen when I'm playing it through the Comcast DVR, record it to the Panasonic, then play it through the Panasonic, it becomes letterboxed, no matter what setting I try to set either the TV or the Panasonic on (for the 4:3 or 16:9 ratio settings).

Do you know if there's any way around that? I know the picture won't be as good once it's on the Panasonic, but I would like the same size of picture, if possible.

Thanks for any insight any of you can give me!

^ You need to change the output of the Comcast box in its "secret" setup menu. On my Comcast HDDVR [Motorola DCH3416] I access this by turning everything on [as if you were about to watch TV]. Then turn off the cablebox by itself leaving your TV and everything powered up. Now press the cable box MENU button. The USER SETTINGS menu should be displayed and you need to change the TV TYPE to 4:3 PAN SCAN. If this alone doesn't fix your problem then you additionally need to change the HDMI/YPbPr OUTPUT to 480i. Still a no go? Put that back to whatever it was and try the 4 different options found in the 4:3 OVERRIDE settings [OFF, 480i, 480p, and a fourth called STRETCH, that will only appear if you resort to putting TV TYPE back to 16:9]. You leave this USER SETTINGS menu by powering down and then back up.

Of course what I just wrote is to be used only when copying material to the Panasonic DMR-E85H. Put everything back as you found it for normal viewing.

m.zillch, I am rather skeptical about what you suggest. I have a Comcast 6412P3 DVR, and I cannot get an anamorphic signal out on the S-Video output, and I have never read of anyone else ever getting one. So, SD letterboxed programs, and HD 16x9 programs, will need to be zoomed at the TV, during playback to fill a 16x9 screen. 4x3 content, recorded from a HD source, will be 'picture-boxed,' with black borders on all four sides, and cannot be made to fill the screen.

To make a HD 16x9 program fill a 16x9 screen, without zooming, the DVDR must get an anamorphic signal by S-Video. To do that from a Comcast box, one needs a converter that will convert a component signal, (which will have an anamorphic signal,) to S-Video. One device is made by Lenkeng. I believe Apple also makes one, and some old Polaroid DVDRs will do this. I started a thread, called Comcast HD STB as tuner for DVDR which has details about this. It's probably on page 2.

^ You need to change the output of the Comcast box in its "secret" setup menu. On my Comcast HDDVR [Motorola DCH3416] I access this by turning everything on [as if you were about to watch TV]. Then turn off the cablebox by itself leaving your TV and everything powered up. Now press the cable box MENU button. The USER SETTINGS menu should be displayed ...

Secret? Not really. As with other Motorola converter boxes and DVRs the procedure is mentioned on page 11 of the Motorola DCH3416 User's Guide:

"You can use your on-screen menu to configure your HD settings for TV type, HDMI and/or YPbPr video output, and closed captioning.

To optimize the output settings:

1. Be sure your DCH receiver is plugged into a power outlet and connected to your TV.
2. Power off the DCH receiver and then immediately press the MENU key on the front panel. If your TV is on, the on-screen menu lists the settings you can configure:"

What's kept secret is the procedure to access the Motorola installation/service modes with the standard Comcast remote.

Motorola user guides may be downloaded here:

http://www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business+Product+and+Services/TV+Video+Distribution/Customer+Premises+Equipment+%28Set-tops%29

The Comcast Pace RNG110 User Guide may be downloaded by typing "Comcast Pace RNG110" in your browser.

m.zillch, I am rather skeptical about what you suggest. I have a Comcast 6412P3 DVR, and I cannot get an anamorphic signal out on the S-Video output, and I have never read of anyone else ever getting one.
I wasn't attempting to suggest that Sk8Leigh could successfully make an anamorphic wide screen recording to the DVD recorder using my stated method, but instead of getting an image with large black bars on all sides when viewed on a wide screen TV the image will only have two black bars to the left and right, or none at all if viewed on a 4:3 TV.

Another trick way to get an anamorphically compressed image out from the Motorola cable boxes is to feed a firewire signal out to a device that does allow for its s-video signal out to be squished. I used to make anamorphically compressed wide screen recordings to my Philips DVD Recorder this way using a JVC D-VHS deck as the intermediate unit.
----

DigaDo, my use of quotation marks around the word "secret" was to denote sarcasm/irony. Not everyone knows about it though, since it is not accessible from the unit's regular menu section; so I explained the procedure to get there.

The menu was "secret" to me. lol I didn't know about it. :)

I did get the picture to fill the screen, but it was, well, pan-and-scan, so that the sides were cut off a lot, plus a little on the top and bottom. I think I would rather have the letterbox than cut out that much.

I guess what I would like to have, is to have the full picture that is available (which would I guess be the 16:9 picture), just in SD, since I know that's the best I can do. Is this letterbox method going to be the best that I can do?

I would like to be able to be able to tape exactly what I see on my screen when I watch it in HD, just in SD, but is that not possible? I guess I just don't understand why it seems to have the "HD" picture, only it letterboxes it.

Thanks. :)

I would like to be able to be able to tape exactly what I see on my screen when I watch it in HD, just in SD, but is that not possible? I guess I just don't understand why it seems to have the "HD" picture, only it letterboxes it.The cable companies assume, rightly or wrongly, that if you are using the composite or S-Video output of their STB, you are connecting it to an old 4:3 CRT. So they are sending a signal optimized for 4:3.

I'm one of those newbee's who don't know much about electronics. I was stationed in Asia in the last few years and bought a Pioneer DVR LX 70. It worked great in Asia and I was told that it works everywhere in the World. I just moved back to the States and found that I cannot get anything with this DVR. What is wrong? What can I do to use it or I just throw this away? Can some expert help?

Most International Pioneers have a built-in, analog NTSC-M tuner which will work here if you're getting that kind of signal.

But over-the-air and cable television hardly have anything available through that anymore. They mainly send their stuff over digital QAM (cable) and ATSC (OTA). The only thing in analog (NTSC) that you may get are the local channels from cable, and a few low-powered ones over-the-air.

You'll probably need to record from an external tuner now (from the cable company, or a standard definition CECB or HD ATSC tuner for OTA). There is plenty of information around here on those.

I'm one of those newbee's who don't know much about electronics.

That and seeing this is your first post I'm sure you'll be familiar with everyday common acronyms like NTSC-M, QAM, ATSC, OTA, NTSC, CECB, HD ATSC...:rolleyes:

Alan22, you need to sign up for cable or satellite and use the outputs of the STB (set top box) that your cable or satellite provider gives you using wires they most likely will also provide, if you want to continue using your analog only unit.

That and seeing this is your first post I'm sure you'll be familiar with everyday common acronyms like NTSC-M, QAM, ATSC, OTA, NTSC, CECB, HD ATSC...:rolleyes:He can't be too dumb if he's been using one of these devices for awhile in the first place.

I don't think the terms "cable", "over-the-air television" or "external tuner" would be especially hard to grasp the meaning of if you've already had or used one of them.

We don't even know what he is trying to receive right now. We need more details.

Given how long this thread has become, just a simple tutorial on how I use my DVD-Recorder to convert content to digital.

I have one of the older Panasonic VHS->DVD models with an analog TV tuner that I never use. I either convert VHS to DVD with one button ease, or use the S-Video/R-L audio output from my DirecTV HD DVR.

One advantage of the Panasonic models is their ability to record at 720x480 resolutions at the 4 hour (LP) speed, albeit at a lower bit rate. These 2-4 hour DVD conversions look great.

The 16x9 aspect ratio problem: I read that many cable boxes do not output an anamorphic picture through their video output. Having been a DirecTV subscriber since 1995, I have never had this problem.

I burn the program to a DVD-RW, copy the DVD-RW to my Macintosh and use MyDVDEdit to fix the 16x9 flag, and then use Toast to burn it back to a DVD-R (if a DVD is my intended output) or convert it to H.264 for playback on my AppleTV; and then reuse the DVD-RW for the next program.

There are black boxes that can be inserted between the set top box and the DVD Recorder that will adjust the 16x9 flag in real time, but I have no experience with these.

The 16x9 aspect ratio problem: I read that many cable boxes do not output an anamorphic picture through their video output. Having been a DirecTV subscriber since 1995, I have never had this problem.

I burn the program to a DVD-RW, copy the DVD-RW to my Macintosh and use MyDVDEdit to fix the 16x9 flag, and then use Toast to burn it back to a DVD-R (if a DVD is my intended output) or convert it to H.264 for playback on my AppleTV; and then reuse the DVD-RW for the next program.

There are black boxes that can be inserted between the set top box and the DVD Recorder that will adjust the 16x9 flag in real time, but I have no experience with these.

A DVD is the intented output. I'm trying to take the program from the HiDef DVR and put it on a DVD in as close to the original output as possible. I know the picture won't be as good, but if I could get everything else the same, that's what I want. But maybe it's just not possible.

I have rewritable DVD-RAMs, but I'm unable to get them to play on my PC. I think that's because it's not finalized? It doesn't even recognize that it's in the drive.

So you're saying with this black box, it would change the aspect ratio to 16:9 as it's being recorded to the Low Def DVD? That's what I need. And if I can't find a way to do that, then I guess I'll just have to go with the letterboxing.

If you think the black box would work, how much is it, and where would I get it?

Thanks.

I have rewritable DVD-RAMs, but I'm unable to get them to play on my PC. I think that's because it's not finalized? It doesn't even recognize that it's in the drive.


The pc must have a RAM capable drive in order to playback dvd-ram discs recorded on a set top dvd recorder, and there must be a media player installed that is also compatible with RAM...PLUS, you need a dvd authoring software program that handles the format too. :rolleyes: ;)

I have rewritable DVD-RAMs, but I'm unable to get them to play on my PC. I think that's because it's not finalized? It doesn't even recognize that it's in the drive.

So you're saying with this black box, it would change the aspect ratio to 16:9 as it's being recorded to the Low Def DVD? That's what I need. And if I can't find a way to do that, then I guess I'll just have to go with the letterboxing.

If you think the black box would work, how much is it, and where would I get it?

Thanks.

As Westly said in order for RAM to work in your computer you need several things setup. I'd just go with -RW or +RW(depending on what your DVDR supports).
If your STB doesn't output wide screen over S-video or composite outputs then you'll need a device to convert your STBs wide screen component output to S-video or composite. If your STB doesn't output WS over SD outputs then all you'll get is a postage stamp output. You can zoom this with your TV but picture quality will suffer.
Here's a recent link talking about a couple different component to S-video/composite output.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828063
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1192691&highlight=

A DVD is the intented output. I'm trying to take the program from the HiDef DVR and put it on a DVD in as close to the original output as possible. I know the picture won't be as good, but if I could get everything else the same, that's what I want. But maybe it's just not possible.

I have rewritable DVD-RAMs, but I'm unable to get them to play on my PC. I think that's because it's not finalized? It doesn't even recognize that it's in the drive.

So you're saying with this black box, it would change the aspect ratio to 16:9 as it's being recorded to the Low Def DVD? That's what I need. And if I can't find a way to do that, then I guess I'll just have to go with the letterboxing.

If you think the black box would work, how much is it, and where would I get it?

Thanks.

The black box I was referring to only does one function: it provides the flag telling the DVD-Recorder that the incoming content is 16x9 vs 4x3; nothing more, and it does not work with all DVD Recorders. Getting the "postage stamp" effect is not solved by this device.

Two thoughts:

1. My DirectV receivers and DVRs have an interesting function on the remote called "FORMAT." It will take a take a 16x9 "postage stamp" and ZOOM it out to the full screen (with some attendant added fuzziness), so that I can record SD channels showing 16x9 letterboxed content as full screen when I record to my DVD-RW.

2. If your set top box does not have this "ZOOM" format function, depending upon how much time you want to put into the project, you could record it to a DVD-RW in postage stamp mode, move it over to your computer, use a program to rip it to your hard disk and crop the black out, so that the resulting file is completely 16x9 and then burn it back to a DVD-R set for 16x9.

On my Macintosh, a good program for this purpose is MPEG Streamclip, which is available on the internet. It will keep the file in MPEG-2 format, but you will have to transcode it to eliminate the black bars.

Again, of course, blowing up the postage stamp (probably 640x360) to full 852x480 on a DVD will inject some resolution quality loss, but at least you will get full screen. If the original content is HD and not SD, this loss of quality should be minimal.

I NEVER use the DVD-RAM recording feature offered by my Panny DVD Recorder, but always use rewritable DVD-RWs that once finalized, rip correctly on my Macintosh. That being said, I think Roxio's Toast offers the ability to suck the MPEG-2 off of DVD-RAMs; but again, I recommend to avoid them for these purposes.

If, as suggested by the other replies, that a component to S-Video box would SOLVE the problem (and save the horribly time consuming steps I suggest), as life is short and time is money, go for their solution!

I am not the biggest "tech" person in the world..but I am not completely tech illiterate. I have a question...
I just received the newest model of the Sony DVDIRECT as a gift, and on the box and in the manual, it claims that it can "record in HD". It claims in the manual that you can either "record from HD source and transfer it to SD", OR "record from HD source and burn to HD format playable on Blu Ray and PS3machines".
Is this not true?
If you can do this... I have a question as to what my best option for quality would be (which type of wire connection)?
I have IO Optimum Cable HD DVR .. and I would like to transfer my HD recordings to the DVD.

thanks in advance!!

I am not the biggest "tech" person in the world..but I am not completely tech illiterate. I have a question...
I just received the newest model of the Sony DVDIRECT as a gift, and on the box and in the manual, it claims that it can "record in HD". It claims in the manual that you can either "record from HD source and transfer it to SD", OR "record from HD source and burn to HD format playable on Blu Ray and PS3machines".
Is this not true?
If you can do this... I have a question as to what my best option for quality would be (which type of wire connection)?
I have IO Optimum Cable HD DVR .. and I would like to transfer my HD recordings to the DVD.

thanks in advance!!

The Sony website qualifies HD recording this way:

"Transfer high definition video in native 1080i resolution from Sony AVCHD HDD/MemoryStick Handycam camcorders to DVD recorded in H.264 format. This allows up to 95 minutes of HD video to be recorded on a DVD playable on most Blu-ray Disc™ players."

I am not the biggest "tech" person in the world..but I am not completely tech illiterate. I have a question...
I just received the newest model of the Sony DVDIRECT as a gift, and on the box and in the manual, it claims that it can "record in HD"...
I have IO Optimum Cable HD DVR .. and I would like to transfer my HD recordings to the DVD...

If you acquire the Hauppauge HD-PVR 1212 and connect it to the component video and digital audio outputs of your Cable HD DVR, you can save AVCHD H.264 (5.1 audio if available from the source program) to your computer, which then presumably this Sony device will burn in Blu-Ray format, which will be playable on Blu-Ray Disc players.

I set my DirecTV HD receiver to 720p output (the Hauppauge will "record" at whichever resolution is fed to it), digitize at 6Mbps, and I am able to get 2 hours of content to fit on a DVD-double layer recordable disc. Of course, if your Sony device will burn to actual Blu-Ray blanks discs you can save 25Gig or 50Gigs on a Double Layer Blu-Ray blank, so you can burn 1080 resolution at higher digitizing rates with longer content.

I guess this side-steps the advantage of the Sony DVDDirect, which is to NOT require a computer, but since you got it as a gift, why not get the results you want: burning your HD content to DVDs that will play on Blu-Ray players in HD.

If you go this route, be sure to come back and report your results!

There are a couple of topics here on this forum that follow the HDPVR 1212 for either Windows or Mac:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1081590

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18360297#post18360297

POSTSCRIPT: It would be really interesting...

Since the notes claim that this device will record in real-time from an camcorder; if you could setup the Hauppauge directly to this device and record in real-time; you will have created a HD DVD-Recorder!!!

"record from HD source and transfer it to SD", OR "record from HD source and burn to HD format playable on Blu Ray and PS3machines".
Is this not true?
Yes it is "true" but only from an HD camcorder [not a cable or satellite box] and possibly only Sony brand units at that. Sorry.

I highly doubt it would work with the Hauppauge HD-PVR, directly at least, without an intermediate PC as its source either, since drivers and other software have to be loaded into the recording PC in order for the Hauppauge to work.

Yes it is "true" but only from an HD camcorder [not a cable or satellite box] and possibly only Sony brand units at that. Sorry.

I highly doubt it would work with the Hauppauge HD-PVR, directly at least, without an intermediate PC as its source either, since drivers and other software have to be loaded into the recording PC in order for the Hauppauge to work.

You are, of course, right about "real-time" recordings, but I will stand by my suggestion for using the Hauppauge HD-PVR to create the files so that his Sony until will work for the purpose he suggests (i.e., create Blu-Ray compatible DVDs of his cable HD content).

I would be happy to email him a sample AVCHD H.264 file with 5.1 audio created from my Hauppauge HD-PVR that he could transfer to an appropriate memory card and then create the sample disc...

I am not the biggest "tech" person in the world..but I am not completely tech illiterate. I have a question...
I just received the newest model of the Sony DVDIRECT as a gift, and on the box and in the manual, it claims that it can "record in HD". It claims in the manual that you can either "record from HD source and transfer it to SD", OR "record from HD source and burn to HD format playable on Blu Ray and PS3machines".
Is this not true?
If you can do this... I have a question as to what my best option for quality would be (which type of wire connection)?
I have IO Optimum Cable HD DVR .. and I would like to transfer my HD recordings to the DVD.

thanks in advance!!

Why dont you just use a firewire cable from your cable DVR to your PC/mac using CapDVHS/Exdues drivers on the PC side and the Apple FirewireSDK/iRecord on the mac side and transfer the HD stream untouched?

Yes it is "true" but only from an HD camcorder [not a cable or satellite box] and possibly only Sony brand units at that. Sorry.

I highly doubt it would work with the Hauppauge HD-PVR, directly at least, without an intermediate PC as its source either, since drivers and other software have to be loaded into the recording PC in order for the Hauppauge to work.

how do you know it wont work with a cable box? does the website mention it?
has it been tested?

on the other topic, If you need to change the aspect ratio of dvd files after the fact, you can use 'dvd patcher'

how do you know it wont work with a cable box? does the website mention it?
has it been tested?

Under VRD-MC6 Specifications tab at the link:

"Inputs and Outputs:
...

# USB Port(s) : x1 (for HDD/MemoryStick® /DVD Handycam® camcorders only)
# i.LINK® Connection : 4-pin i.LINK (IEEE1394) (for camcorder connection only)"

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665936279#specifications

Its quite possible Sony's specifications are lying and that in truth the device will record in HD from any device. I have no evidence to support this, however, nor have I tested it.

I guess this side-steps the advantage of the Sony DVDDirect, which is to NOT require a computer, but since you got it as a gift, why not get the results you want: burning your HD content to DVDs that will play on Blu-Ray players in HD.

Since the notes claim that this device will record in real-time from an camcorder; if you could setup the Hauppauge directly to this device and record in real-time; you will have created a HD DVD-Recorder!!!

very interesting idea, but do blu-ray players already have the ability to play AVCHD discs(HD content to DVD that will play on blu-ray?)

I realize that such discs can only store 15 minutes of content, but at least it is an easy process, just dropping your raw .mts files in a video folder on a dvd. That's what I do with my raw footage that doesn't' require editing, just reviewing.

Does the DVR on the Magnavox (515) record and play high definition and the dvd does not, or is it both that do not record and play in hd?

No the Magnavox can not record or playback in high definition. Yes you can record HD channels, but any channels you are watching in HD, if you record them they will only be recorded in standard definition.

Along with getting a cable card for your computer to receive HD, you will also need to get a computer that has a dedicated HDMI out in the specs. It will also probably be best to get one running Windows 7 PRoThese computers are designed to handle the HD data and have the "power" to "play" with the data.

There is NO HDMI input on anything to date, and the industry really never wants to open that can of worms again. The only way to get HD content is through a HDSTB via satalite or cable. The current Magnivox 515 will not record in HD format, but only SD. It does a great job of then putting HD back out via HDMI to the TV, but it is more or less a dead end street for "archiving" in full HD. STBs are dead end streets as well, but they allow scrambled channels for HD viewing. Right now the only way to truly archive HD all the way to the bank is a computer with a cable card or a TIVO with a cable card, which is then connected to a computer via a network that can handle HD. I am not trying to downplay the 515, because that is the best we have here in North America to carry on the tradition in the easiest manner. Supporting it, as I see it, is the only way to get back on track to a HDVR.

There is NO HDMI input on anything to date, and the industry really never wants to open that can of worms again.

Never, never, nerver.... :mad:

Right now the only way to truly archive HD all the way to the bank is a computer with a cable card or a TIVO with a cable card, which is then connected to a computer via a network that can handle HD.

I will remember this. Try to archive HD content isn't an easy task.

Is it possible at this time to record DVD in 480P with a stand alone DVD recorder with component video input? I keep reading that DVD recorders record only in 480i but commercial DVDs are actually 480P, though old players (pre DVI or hdmi out) dumbed down the output to 480i. Later machines with progressive output just line doubled the dumbed down 480i to make pseudo 480P but it still showed only half the original lines actually recorded on the DVD. I ask because I'd like to line double my laser discs then record them onto a DVD recorder for convenience without giving up any more quality than necessary in the process. I know I could use a quality video capture card in one of my computers to do this and will do it that way if I have to.

Is it possible at this time to record DVD in 480P with a stand alone DVD recorder with component video input? I keep reading that DVD recorders record only in 480i but commercial DVDs are actually 480P, though old players (pre DVI or hdmi out) dumbed down the output to 480i. Later machines with progressive output just line doubled the dumbed down 480i to make pseudo 480P but it still showed only half the original lines actually recorded on the DVD. I ask because I'd like to line double my laser discs then record them onto a DVD recorder for convenience without giving up any more quality than necessary in the process. I know I could use a quality video capture card in one of my computers to do this and will do it that way if I have to.
You got some bad info, commercial DVD's are all interlaced, not progressive.
You can read up on it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video

AFAIK all DVDs(including commercially pressed DVDs) are stored as 480i. It's the player that will change the 480i to 480p and up to 1080p via HDMI. I know their is some confusion on the DVD format but generally when the dust settles it's determined DVD is 480i.
The following quote and link is on Wiki:
MPEG-1 formats do not support interlaced video. MPEG-2 formats support both interlaced and progressive-scan content, with the latter being encoded within interlaced stream using pulldown.

An MPEG-2 encoder can add flags in video stream to indicate scanning type, field order and field repeating. A DVD player uses these flags to convert progressive content into interlaced video suitable for interlaced TV sets. These flags also help reproducing progressive content on progressive-scan television sets.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video)

It seems to contradict itself but all I know is DVDs recorded on my standalone Panasonic DVD Recorder looks as good as the same commercially pressed DVD. I've not used laser disc so if that format is better than commercial DVDs you'll probably want to record to your computers HDD and burn on BR or DVD in the AVCHD format which is better than DVD format.

According to Wiki:
Laserdisc is a composite video format: the luminance (black and white) and chrominance (color) information are transmitted in one signal and it is the responsibility of the receiver to separate them. While good comb filters can do so adequately, these two signals cannot be completely separated. On DVDs, data is stored in the form of blocks which make up each independent frame. The signal produced is dependent on the equipment used to master the disc. Signals range from composite and split, to YUV and RGB. Depending upon which format is used, this can result in far higher fidelity, particularly at strong color borders or regions of high detail (especially if there is moderate movement in the picture) and low-contrast details like skin tones, where comb filters almost inevitably smudge some detail.

In contrast to the entirely digital DVD, Laserdiscs use only analog video. As the Laserdisc format is not digitally encoded and does not make use of compression techniques, it is immune to video macroblocking (most visible as blockiness during high motion sequences) or contrast banding (subtle visible lines in gradient areas, such as skies or light casts from spotlights) that can be caused by the MPEG-2 encoding process as video is prepared for DVD. However, proprietary human-assisted encoders manually operated by specialist experts can vastly reduce the incidence of artifacts.

IMO the native format of LD, composite NTSC 480i, should be recorded and digitized as is, onto a DVD. Line doubling which involves cadence detection deinterlacing , should be done as it is with all commercial DVD movie discs, in the play back machine with the best quality deinterlacer you can find, probably an Oppo, not that I follow DVD player differences much anymore.

Is it possible at this time to record DVD in 480P with a stand alone DVD recorder with component video input? I keep reading that DVD recorders record only in 480i but commercial DVDs are actually 480P, though old players (pre DVI or hdmi out) dumbed down the output to 480i. Later machines with progressive output just line doubled the dumbed down 480i to make pseudo 480P but it still showed only half the original lines actually recorded on the DVD. I ask because I'd like to line double my laser discs then record them onto a DVD recorder for convenience without giving up any more quality than necessary in the process. I know I could use a quality video capture card in one of my computers to do this and will do it that way if I have to.

IMO the native format of LD, composite NTSC 480i, should be recorded and digitized as is, onto a DVD. Line doubling which involves cadence detection deinterlacing , should be done as it is with all commercial DVD movie discs, in the play back machine with the best quality deinterlacer you can find, probably an Oppo, not that I follow DVD player differences much anymore.

I agree.

I use the S-Video output of my Laserdisc player to record to DVD-R.

In the case of letterboxed Laserdiscs, I record them to DVD-RW, copy the MPEG-2 video from the DVD-RW to my computer, trim out the black bars and then burn to DVD-R at full 16 by 9 aspect ratio.

I have been very pleased with these results.

I use the S-Video output of my Laserdisc player to record to DVD-R.

Recording LD may be one of the rare instances where using the composite out strangely yields better results than the S-video out. It depends.

S-video is certainly the way to go for formats like S-VHS and Hi-8mm tapes where the native signal maintains a separation of the Y and C signal and records them separately using a "color under" methodology. LD does not, however, and its Y and C are combined together into a composite signal (hence the name of the jack) and recorded onto the disc. The benefits of keeping Y and C separate, reducing dot crawl, hanging dots, moire patterns and other forms of cross contamination are almost entirely lost if at any point along the start to finish chain the two are combined (like LD does). An S-video jack on such units simply means the manufacturer has elected to throw in a free comb filter, a "kludge" if you will, but using an external and more modern one may very well yeild better results.

The reason LD decks started having S-video jacks is because once the public became aware of the benefits of separated video on other formats (hence the term S-video, it has nothing to do with the word "super" although many people's first exposure to it was with "super-VHS decks") they naively thought it was entirely because of the jack itself. In truth LD machines with s-video jacks are merely normal LD machines with an added comb filter glued on to the back! There is however good reason to believe that the comb filter in a modern, $200 circa 2010 DVD recorder exceeds the capability of a circa 1995, $800 LD deck that simply had one glued on for marketing purposes.

Granted I don't own an LDS2 state of the art LD machine, however through careful analysis of the Snell and Wilcox motion zone plate video test sequence I determined that using the native composite signal out of my Pioneer LD, instead of S-video, and doing the separation downstream through more modern digital comb filters made over a decade after its release , I got a noticibly better image!

Are there any Blu ray Recorders with component inputs to record in HD ? all the blu ray recorders I see online can still only record in standard defenition. I mean might as well just stick to DVDRs

^ There are standalone bluray video recorders in US distribution?:confused:
Please provide a link, or at least a model number, thanks.

try this for HD recording.
capture to your pc then create avchd or bluray disc.
You'll have to do some research but its not that complicated.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116030

^ There are standalone bluray video recorders in US distribution?:confused:
Please provide a link, or at least a model number, thanks.
This
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/DVD-Players-Recorders/ci/15316/N/4294210544
list generally has one or two standalone BR recorders for sale(#2 at the time of posting). But as Champer said, why bother...they only record in SD for anything other than from select camcorders via DV input. As nikknightt said, you'll need a PC to really burn HD to BR(or even DVD).

Thanks guys, but I've owned a Hauppauge HDVPVR 1212 since 2008. I believe I was the very first person in these forums to have bought one from a retailer and not factory direct, in fact.

I've made dozens of AVCHD discs and HD Bluray discs from it and it is a royal pain in the a$$ and a very time consuming and convoluted process compared to just popping in a blank disc and pressing one button, "record".

I bought a USB to component cable off of ebay, that should work wont it ?

If it works in reverse, component to USB, and has a built-in analog to digital video converter (like the Hauppauge HDPVR) then it should work just fine. ;)

Thanks guys, but I've owned a Hauppauge HDVPVR 1212 since 2008. I believe I was the very first person in these forums to have bought one from a retailer and not factory direct, in fact.

I've made dozens of AVCHD discs and HD Bluray discs from it and it is a royal pain in the a$$ and a very time consuming and convoluted process compared to just popping in a blank disc and pressing one button, "record".

I dont find the process a pain in the ass.
Play the content to be captured. (same as stand-alone)
Author the file with tsmuxer. burn the disc.

Two extra easy steps and voila. HD disc.

Thanks guys, but I've owned a Hauppauge HDVPVR 1212 since 2008. I believe I was the very first person in these forums to have bought one from a retailer and not factory direct, in fact.

I've made dozens of AVCHD discs and HD Bluray discs from it and it is a royal pain in the a$$ and a very time consuming and convoluted process compared to just popping in a blank disc and pressing one button, "record".

I dont find the process a pain in the ass.
Play the content to be captured. (same as stand-alone)
Author the file with tsmuxer. burn the disc.

Two extra easy steps and voila. HD disc.

Although making disc's are my last priority (ever since I purchased and hacked my Apple TV six months after its initial release to play files stored on my computer's external hard disk):

I also find it easy to take the resultant file from the HDPVR 1212 (I save at 720p) and use Toast 10 to burn it in Blu-Ray format on a double sided DVD to get a 8Gb disc that will play in my Blu-Ray player.

After waiting for what seemed "forever" for some hardware that would burn HD content, I purchased mine direct from Hauppauge on May 29, 2008.

Initially I had to install Windows XP on my Mac Mini to run it in Windows. Since Steven Toth released his wonderful HDPVR Capture software for the Mac, I have abandoned using Windows to control it.

I dont find the process a pain in the ass.
Play the content to be captured. (same as stand-alone)
Author the file with tsmuxer. burn the disc.
Two extra easy steps and voila. HD disc.

If authoring and burning the disc were instantaneous processes, which they aren't, then I'd agree.

This
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/DVD-Players-Recorders/ci/15316/N/4294210544
list generally has one or two standalone BR recorders for sale(#2 at the time of posting). But as Champer said, why bother...they only record in SD for anything other than from select camcorders via DV input. As nikknightt said, you'll need a PC to really burn HD to BR(or even DVD). whats the name of the DV input exactly ? and will it record in HD ? also is there any component adapters to that DV connection you are rerferring to

whats the name of the DV input exactly ? and will it record in HD ? also is there any component adapters to that DV connection you are rerferring to
FireWire: 4-pin (x1 Input) is another term for DV and as for adapters I haven't really heard of any, I think it's basically for from select camcorders that record in HD and output in DV. Many SD DVDRs also have DV inputs but of course in that case I'd think you'd need to output 480i.