In an effort to possibly save some repetition in posts, and avoid confusion, this seems to be a question that pops up once a week or so.

No current DVD recorder, available in the American market at least, will record high definition content IN HIGH DEFINITION RESOLUTION. DVD recorders can only record in standard definition which is 480i. You cannot record in 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p.

You CAN record hi definition content from a sat box or STB, depending on the hookup, but at best it will be in 480i resolution. The recordings should still be very good, they just won't be in high definition. Your STB or source signal has to be able to transmit the hi-def content via component, S video or composite- -not all do. NOTE--If you have a Directv Hi def box (and this may apply to other STBs) you need to manually SET the Directv box to output at 480i OR YOU WILL NOT GET A SIGNAL WHEN YOU HOOK IT UP TO A DVD RECORDER! Until the HD format wars are resolved and we start seeing some HD-DVD players, HD-DVD recorders are still a ways off.

Even if you have a hi-def DVR like a Directivo, while the Directivo will store the high def signal to its hard drive, so you can watch in high definition from your Directivo or Dish hard drive, it is downconverted to 480i when outputted to a DVD recorder for archiving(and it does not even stay in the digital domain, as it has to be converted to analog, then back to digital).

The only current way to actually record in hi-def resolution, other than a hi-def STB hard drive, is via a D-VHS recorder.


AUDIO ADDENDUM: No current DVD recorders can record a Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS multichannel digital signal either. Recorders have digital OUTPUTS (usually optical, some coaxial), but only record in Dolby Digital 2.0 or uncompressed PCM digital stereo audio. No standalone DVD recorders have digital audio inputs or allow recording of a 5.1 signal at this time. PCM audio is uncompressed,unlike DD, and is far superior than DD 2.0 for sound quality, especially for music. Beware the cheap DVD recorder brands, as many only have mono tuners and won't even record in stereo.

squonk, can you make this a sticky?

If you were refering to my post, if you had read it you would know that I had it set to 480i, and it wasn't a HD program.
Butch

squonk, can you make this a sticky?
I would if I knew how. Is that up to a moderator?

If you were refering to my post, if you had read it you would know that I had it set to 480i, and it wasn't a HD program.
Butch
Not referring to anyone's post in particular--its just a question we seem to see quite frequently and may save some people search time.

Thanks squonk. I know I've addressed this question many times. I think you're as weary reading my response as you are reading the question. But what am I to do if I'm not asked the one thing about which I have an answer?

squonk, ask the moderators to make this into a sticky!

You could mention DVHS, but it is such an incredible niche market, it might not be worth the effort.

You might tell 'em that until you see the release of BluRay, or HD DVD recorders, with enormous fanfare and a huge marketing blitz, there aren't any. We're eagerly waiting too.

I know that I cannot record HD using my current dvd recorder, but when I look at the dvds I recorded from the HD channels when I had Voom they look outstanding. I am in no hurry to embrace any new HD recording technology when I have been happy with an SD recording made from an HD signal. Probably someday, but I am not jumping on the bandwagon when it begins.

elocs,
I'm sure you will agree that nothing improves the quality of a recording more than a high quality input source. Now how much of a difference did you see between watching the original in HD and watching the high quality SD recording. Was it enough to blow your socks off like the difference between VHS and DVD. Or was it just . . . nice . . .

I'm interested in your observation.

Thanks squonk. I know I've addressed this question many times. I think you're as weary reading my response as you are reading the question. But what am I to do if I'm not asked the one thing about which I have an answer?
HealeyGuy, you have explained it quite well, and probably better than I can, many times. I just thought given the frequency of the question it might be nice to have a thread that can quickly answer the inevitable. I'm amazed at how many think that hi def recording to DVD is possible now even though we don't even have the players yet.

As for the 16:9 anamorphic recording issues, those are beyond my expertise at this point but have been addressed several times by the likes of RonDawg, HealeyGuy, Budget HT and a few others I'm sure I'm forgetting. I don't know if its possible to make a comprehensive "sticky" re those recording issues because of all the equipment variables, but I know Budget HT and aprest have posted nice
comprehensive posts regarding widescreen recording that could be made into a sticky. (see aprest post in thread "what I've learned about aspect ratios and DVD recording" AND ALSO SEE APREST POST BELOW FOR 16:9 RECORDING TIPS) (see Budget HT post in "DVR to DVD recorder possible")

I would if I knew how. Is that up to a moderator?

Stuck.

Thanks for the sticky. Maybe this can evolve into a comprehensive FAQ for newbies. I had to answer the HD recording question on a thread earlier today.

I am posting this as help for those trying to record 16:9 and 4:3 content onto various DVD recorders. The source of the content for the most part was a DirecTV HR10-250 HD STB but the recommendations should apply to any STB that allows you to select a 16:9 or 4:3 output (or will summarize what you might get if you know what the output is).

If you want to record strictly HD content from the HR10-250 to view on a 16:9 HD TV, then it doesn't matter a lot about whether you use a Panasonic, Sony, or a Pioneer recorder. However, if you also want to record HD content to watch on a 4:3 TV, then there are issues you must deal with. There are even more issues when recording HD SAT, HD OTA and SD SAT broadcasts from the HR10-250. The attached matrix covers all four scenarios listed below. I have Pioneer (310 and 510), Panasonic (ES10) and Sony (GX7 and GX300) DVD recorders and have found the Sony GX7 and GX300 to provide the most flexibility in recording from the HR10-250. The Panasonic ES10 provides better results for content longer than 2 hours but requires that the ifo files be modified to be watched with no distortion on a 4:3 SD TV.

I have been experimenting with recording onto DVD-Rs using various settings for the output of a DirecTV HR10-250 High Definition Tivo STB to a Sony RDR –GX300 DVD recorder. Note that the HR10-250 STB can be set to output either 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratios to its “S” cable connection that feeds the Sony GX300 recorder. The Sony GX300 can be set to record 4:3 or 16:9 (Note: the 16:9 setting only works with DVD-R and DVD-RW DVDs at HQ, HSP and SP speeds – that is 120 minutes or less).

Here are the results (note that you sould download the attachment that has this information plus a 2X2 matrix that provides a simple reference for the results):
1) Sony GX300 input set to 16:9 and HR10-250 output set to 16:9:
On an HD 16X9 TV: 16:9 HD content (from OTA or SAT) is recorded as anamorphic and can be watched using “Full” mode; 4:3 SD content (from SAT) is recorded as anamorphic and can be watched in “Full” mode with sidebars showing.
On a SD 4X3 TV: 16:9 HD content (from OTA or SAT) is a full letterbox with bars on top and bottom; 4:3 SD content (from SAT) is a centered letterbox with bars top, bottom and sides showing.
2) Sony GX300 input set to 16:9 and HR10-250 output set to 4:3:
On an HD 16X9 TV: 16:9 HD content (from OTA or SAT) is recorded as non-anamorphic and can be watched using “Zoom” mode; 4:3 SD content (from SAT) is recorded as non-anamorphic and can be watched in “Normal or 4:3” mode with sidebars showing.
On a SD 4X3 TV: 16:9 HD content (from OTA or SAT) and 4:3 SD content (from SAT) are both squashed from top & bottom and so distorted as to be unwatchable.
3) Sony GX300 input set to 4:3 and HR10-250 output set to 16:9:
On an HD 16X9 TV: 16:9 HD content (from OTA or SAT) is recorded as anamorphic and can be watched using “Full” mode; 4:3 SD content (from SAT) is recorded as anamorphic and can be watched in “Full” mode with sidebars showing.
On a SD 4X3 TV: 16:9 HD content (from OTA or SAT) and 4:3 SD content (from SAT) are both squeezed from the sides and so distorted as to be unwatchable.
4) Sony GX300 input set to 4:3 and HR10-250 output set to 4:3:
On an HD 16X9 TV: 16:9 HD content (from OTA or SAT) is recorded as non-anamorphic and can be watched using “Zoom” mode; 4:3 SD content (from SAT) is recorded as non-anamorphic and can be watched in “Normal” mode with sidebars showing.
On a SD 4X3 TV: 16:9 HD content (from OTA or SAT) is a full letterbox with bars on top and bottom showing; 4:3 SD content (from SAT) is full screen with no bars.

I also have a Sony RDR-GX7 that works the same way. I also have a Pioneer 310, a Pioneer 510, and a Panasonic ES10 and because you can not select an input setting it records the same way as numbers 3 and 4 above.

I attached a word document that contains the above text and a matrix showing these results. Note that the vertical access of the matrix says HR10-250 but this axis can apply to any STB that allows you to select a 16:9 or 4:3 output.

Recording and Playback in 16:9 is also a common subject that would benefit from the same treatment. So sqounk you might want to update your original post to cover this also.

I agree. Squonk maybe you can change the tiltle of this sticky to be a "how to record 16:9 HD content to......."

Often times when you record from a 16:9 HD source the resulting DVD plays as a 16:9 anamorphic undistorted widescreen video on a 16:9 HD TV set to "Full" mode. However that same DVD plays as squeezed from the sides so that people look tall and skinny on a 4:3 SD TV.

I have read many posts about how to fix this but too often the recommendations are complex and require you to reauthor the DVD. There is a simpler way!

All you have to do is change the flags to 16:9 using Ifo.Edit (freeware) on a PC.

You don't need to reauthor the DVD. Just copy the DVD files to your hard drive, change the file properties to "a" from "ra" so that the ifo files can be modified, edit the ifo files using Ifo.Edit and burn a new DVD. The longest part of this process is waiting for the DVD to upload to your hard drive. Editing the ifo files takes about one minute and my PC DVD burner takes less than 8 minute to burn the final DVD-R.

I often record movies that are longer than 2 hours to my Panasonic ES10 (which does not set the 16:9 flags correctly in any recording mode) which provides 500 lines of resolution in LP (4 hour) mode. I record using DVD-RW disks, transfer to my PC, modify the ifo files, and burn to a DVD-R.

For movies two hours or shorter I use my Sony GX300 or GX7 set to record in 16:9 mode so that the DVD has the proper 16:9 flags and I don't need to reset the ifo flags on my PC. Note however if I use the Sony GX300 or GX7 to record movies longer than 2 hours the recorder ignores the 16:9 setting and records in 4:3 mode so that the 16:9 flags are not set correctly and I need to edit the ifo files. Since the Panasonic ES10 provides better resolution than the Sony GX300 or GX7 for movies longer than two hours I use the Panasonic for movies longer than two hours and then edit the ifo files.

Use this link for instructions as to how to edit the ifo files.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3783431&highl ... ost3783431
Look for instructions posted in this thread about half way down the page.

Apple has a neat trick to record HD on current DVDs:

"Author in SD or HD

Showcase your HD content with integrated, scalable H.264 encoding that allows you to fit HD content on DVDs using existing drives and existing media. Create HD on DVD versions from existing SD projects. Go from native HDV to HD on DVD with no recompression from Final Cut Pro and save time by encoding HD and SD in one Compressor batch."

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/

Of course the catch is current players won't play the H.264 compression but you can record and play these HD DVDs on your computer.

And don't forget the new HDV format to record HD on miniDV tapes. I am not aware of any home decks, just camcorders in the under $5,000 price range.

I doubt of that format will make it all the way to the home when you consider what HD DVD (and Blu Ray) recorders will sell for in a few years.

Park

All you have to do is change the flags to 16:9 using Ifo.Edit (freeware) on a PC.
The application to do this on a Mac is called myDVDEdit.

Just got a new upconversion dvd recorder, haven't even hooked it up yet, can it upconvert a recorded signal to HD or just the pre-recorded DVD's?

In an effort to possibly save some repetition in posts, and avoid confusion, this seems to be a question that pops up once a week or so.

No current DVD recorder, available in the American market at least, will record high definition content IN HIGH DEFINITION RESOLUTION. DVD recorders can only record in standard definition which is 480i. You cannot record in 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p.

You CAN record hi definition content from a sat box or STB, depending on the hookup, but at best it will be in 480i resolution. The recordings should still be very good, they just won't be in high definition. Your STB or source signal has to be able to transmit the hi-def content via component, S video or composite- -not all do. Until the HD format wars are resolved and we start seeing some HD-DVD players, HD-DVD recorders are still a ways off.

Even if you have a hi-def DVR like a Directivo, while the Directivo will store the high def signal to its hard drive, so you can watch in high definition from your Directivo or Dish hard drive, it is downconverted to 480i when outputted to a DVD recorder for archiving(and it does not even stay in the digital domain, as it has to be converted to analog, then back to digital).

The only current way to actually record in hi-def resolution, other than a hi-def STB hard drive, is via a D-VHS recorder.

I think this is all accurate--if its not please let me know.

So you can record HD with a D-VHS recorder? Can you somehow connect it to the HR 10-250 for recording purposes? Thanks.

So you can record HD with a D-VHS recorder? Can you somehow connect it to the HR 10-250 for recording purposes? Thanks.
This and some other posts are getting a little afield from the topic of this thread which basically is "what happens when HD sources are recorded to the currently available DVD recorders."

But to answer your question, D-VHS recorders will record HD only via their Firewire input when connected to the Firewire output of a HD receiver or PVR. If the HR 10-250 has Firewire output then I'd check the AVS HDTV Recorders & Players forum for other people's experience using the D-VHS decks with this receiver.

I know this has been said on this thread but in my experience it cannot be said enough: Even though we all know that you cannot record a true HD quality on our DVD recorders.... The Panasonic and Pioneer DVD Recorders DO record an HD feed signal much better(the recording is sharper and clearer) than a non-HD feed signal providing the record modes(XP,SP etc) are same.. And I would wager other DVDR brands do this also.

Administrator, can you update the title of this sticky so people can see the thread addresses 16:9 recording issues also? I edited the title but the old one still appears. Thanks.

I followed your instructions and was able to change the 16:9 flag on my PC. However I remember you or someone else mentioning a bit different procedure that I can't seem to get right. Here goes...
I am recording using a Panasonic ES10 from a DirecTV HD Tivo receiver (set to 480i output).
The following procedure works:
1. Burn program(s) to a DVD-R disc on the ES10
2. Finalize the DVD-R disc on the ES10
3. Play DVD on 4:3 display. It is strectched vertically as expected. No problem on 16:9 display.
4. Put the DVD into my PC
5. Copy entire DVD contents to a directory on my PC hard drive.
6. Use IfoEdit to set the 16:9 flag
7. Burn entire DVD content (incl. modified .ifo files) from directory on my PC hard drive to a new DVD-R disc. I use Roxio 7 Disc Copier for this.
8. Test the updated DVD-RW on my PC using PowerDVD. Looks correct and displays 16:9 letterboxed in 4:3 window as expected.

The following procedure does not work:
1. Burn program(s) to a DVD-RW disc on the ES10 (note the use of a DVD-RW disc)
2. Finalize the DVD-RW on the ES10
3. Play DVD on 4:3 display. It is strectched vertically as expected. No problem on 16:9 display.
4. Put the DVD-RW disc into my PC
5. Copy just the .IFO and .BUP files to a directory on my PC hard drive
6. Use IfoEdit to set the 16:9 flag in the .Ifo files
7. Burn just the modified .Ifo and .Bup files to the original DVD-RW which replaces the original files. I use Roxio 7 for this and choose the option to close the DVD after burning.
8. Test the updated DVD-RW on my PC using PowerDVD. It works and displays 16:9 letterboxed in 4:3 window as expected due to changing the 16:9 flag using IfoEdit.
9. Put updated DVD-RW into my DVD Player. It gives an error about being unplayable due to being unfinalized.
10. Put the updated DVD-RW into the ES10. It complains the disc is not formatted properly and offers to format it.
What am I doing wrong?


I use the first method and never tried the second one because I didn't think it would work. You just proved that it in fact doesn't work. Another reason that I didn't try the second method is that I didn't want to use DVD-RW disks as the final DVD. DVD-R disks can be bought very cheaply and I can resue the DVD-RW for the next movie that needs to have the ifo files modified.

Early in the thread when Squonk was addressing the audio encoding schemes supported by DVD recorders he posted this.

but only record in Dolby Digital 2.0 or uncompressed PCM digital stereo audio

Question concerning this, if memory serves right PCM stands for Pulse coded modulation at least in the RF world it does. If this is the method of coding the audio it should be possible for multiple channels of audio to be stored. Is this what comes from the RF output of the Sat reciever?

Thanks squonk. I know I've addressed this question many times. I think you're as weary reading my response as you are reading the question.
To the moderator -
I am a newbie, but find the huge amounts of excellent information here a great assistance as I learn more and more about HD, Cable, Sats etc. However, it makes sense to me that we newbies should not unwittingly ask the same questions over an over and waste a number of talented peoples time. So, how about a "Newbie" section as one of the forums. It could have the stickies from each of the regular forums. This would be a great place for us beginners to start our information gathering.
PS - as a newbie, I hope I am not out of line posing a question like this to a moderator. If this is bad form, please accept my apologies in advance.
Jim

To the moderator -
I am a newbie, but find the huge amounts of excellent information here a great assistance as I learn more and more about HD, Cable, Sats etc. However, it makes sense to me that we newbies should not unwittingly ask the same questions over an over and waste a number of talented peoples time. So, how about a "Newbie" section as one of the forums. It could have the stickies from each of the regular forums. This would be a great place for us beginners to start our information gathering.
PS - as a newbie, I hope I am not out of line posing a question like this to a moderator. If this is bad form, please accept my apologies in advance.
JimWelcome.
Information in this forum has a limited shelf-life. Everything in this technology changes constantly, the models evolve along with their capabilities/features/bugs; the quality devolves. For a new person, coming up to speed by sifting through old information in old threads is not nearly as productive as reading and participating in the new and currently active threads for several weeks. Old threads that still have value and relevance are regularly bumped to first-page status where they can be reviewed for perspective. The questions may be asked more than once but the answers often change with the askings.

Crutchfield says the Sony Sony RDR-VX515 Combination DVD recorder + HiFi VCR "can record progressive scan video signals".

Now maybe that means it can record progressive scan signals, but it records them in 480i...??


http://www.crutchfield.com/S-oK3pu9MDRN7/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=88000&id=detailed_info&i=158VX515#Tab

Crutchfield says the Sony Sony RDR-VX515 Combination DVD recorder + HiFi VCR "can record progressive scan video signals".

Now maybe that means it can record progressive scan signals, but it records them in 480i...??


http://www.crutchfield.com/S-oK3pu9MDRN7/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=88000&id=detailed_info&i=158VX515#Tab

The web site says ...
Progressive Scan: The DVD can output progressive scan video signals from the component video outputs. Progressive scan video has less flicker and fewer motion artifacts than the traditional interlaced scanning method, resulting in a superior picture. To watch progressive scan video, you must have a television with component video inputs that supports the progressive scanning mode. Note: You can record progressive scan video signals.

This would be the first DVD recorder I have heard of that would accept progressive scan inputs for recording.

The web site says ...


This would be the first DVD recorder I have heard of that would accept progressive scan inputs for recording.

The 515 doesn't have component inputs. Given that "To watch progressive scan video, you must have a television with component video inputs that supports the progressive scanning mode." Don't you need component inputs on a DVD recorder to record "progressive scan"?

The 515 doesn't have component inputs. Given that "To watch progressive scan video, you must have a television with component video inputs that supports the progressive scanning mode." Don't you need component inputs on a DVD recorder to record "progressive scan"?
That's what I thought. So if the device "records progressive scan video signals", it probably only means it will record the signal as 480i and then upconverts via component out to 480p?

Squonk,

Your right. The HIGHEST resolution(currently) one can record at is 480i, PERIOD.

Even when DVD recorders eventually come with a digital tuner, 480i will "most likely" still be the max resolution one can record in. Even with the eventual arrival of Blu-ray or DVD-HD discs, 480i will be the max resolution allowed copied to a disc. A HDD will allow for HD[1080i/720p] recording, but it will all be downrezzed to 480i onto a regualr DVD-R/-RW/+R/+RW/RAM, Blu-Ray, or DVD-HD disc.

Just got a new upconversion dvd recorder, haven't even hooked it up yet, can it upconvert a recorded signal to HD or just the pre-recorded DVD's?

I saw an upconverting DVD recorder at Best Buy yesterday (RCA) and I kinda got excited for a second until I looked on the back and only found Composite/S Video inputs. My guess is that it probably cant upconvert the recorded 480i material..

Also, I had a Philips hard drive based DVD recorder and it had component inputs..however buried in the manual was the fact that it couldn't record progressive scan content. I still figured that setting my HD-Tivo to 480i and hooking it up to it via the component cables would work, but that didn't work either, so I ended up giving it to my parents.

Hi, I'm also a newbee to DVD recording - just opened and set up my Toshiba RD-4 this morning (a Hanukah and Christmas gift from my wife). I also have a Sony KD34XBR960 and a HD-DVR from Cablevision to store movies before copying to DVD.

I have a few questions

1) I set the video mode to 16x9 when recording HD. Is this setting the same as "amamphoric" as referred to by those in this thread?

2) I recorded a football game that was in HD. On playback I had to set my Sony HDTV to "Zoom" - using full only stretched the picture with letterbox bars on the top and bottom (my DVD recorder output is set for 16x9). Is my "zoom" the same as "full" on other sets?

3) I have a second 4x3 set with a 3-2 pulldown. Does this eliminate the problem of recordings in 16x9 appearing squeezed on 4x3 sets?

I recorded "Quo Vadis" a color 4x3 film from Turner Classics this afternoon in 4x3 mode and three-hour speed since it's 165 minutes. Came out beautiful and played on both sets perfectly.

I know these questions might have already been posted and am sure I'm not the first newbee not to completely understand the answers provided in full detail.

Thanks for taking the time "again" to help me out.

Best,
Joe

Hi, I'm also a newbee to DVD recording - just opened and set up my Toshiba RD-4 this morning (a Hanukah and Christmas gift from my wife). I also have a Sony KD34XBR960 and a HD-DVR from Cablevision to store movies before copying to DVD.

I have a few questions

1) I set the video mode to 16x9 when recording HD. Is this setting the same as "amamphoric" as referred to by those in this thread?

The recorder records in 480i period. Setting anything to 16:9 only has to do with formatting on playback.

2) I recorded a football game that was in HD. On playback I had to set my Sony HDTV to "Zoom" - using full only stretched the picture with letterbox bars on the top and bottom (my DVD recorder output is set for 16x9). Is my "zoom" the same as "full" on other sets?

Your recording of a HD football game, was downconverted to a letterboxed 480i format, and by selecting "zoom" on the TV you are enlarging the image back to the size of the TV. It is still a 480i "letterboxed" recording.

3) I have a second 4x3 set with a 3-2 pulldown. Does this eliminate the problem of recordings in 16x9 appearing squeezed on 4x3 sets?


NO, it has nothing to do with that at all. It refers to converting the 480i signal give a smoother, sharper image from movie sources.

I recorded "Quo Vadis" a color 4x3 film from Turner Classics this afternoon in 4x3 mode and three-hour speed since it's 165 minutes. Came out beautiful and played on both sets perfectly.

I know these questions might have already been posted and am sure I'm not the first newbee not to completely understand the answers provided in full detail.

Thanks for taking the time "again" to help me out.

Best,
Joe

Thanks Phototone.

I got concerned when reading 16x9 material could appear squeezed when viewing back on a 4x3 set. Did I misunderstand this simply meant when recording anything letterbox the setting mode should be 16x9 so it will not appear squeezed when playing back on a 4x3?

Thanks as always,
Joe

Joe, I don't know what brand your Cablevision HD PVR is but most of these only output 480i letterbox video via the S-video port from HD channels. So it is unlikely you are recording 16:9 video.

You are correct that anamorphic and 16:9 480i are the same. What happens with 16:9 anamorphic video is that the black bars that would be present on a letterbox 4:3 video are not recorded into the 4:3 video frame. Instead, the space for the black bars is used for picture information by squeezing in the width which in turn pushes up the height. On playback the DVD player unsqueezes the picture for display on a 16:9 TV. On a 4:3 TV a properly set up DVD player will unsqueeze the picture while adding bars to the top and bottom to fill the 4:3 frame so it displays at the proper aspect ratio on the TV.

Joe, I don't know what brand your Cablevision HD PVR is but most of these only output 480i letterbox video via the S-video port from HD channels. So it is unlikely you are recording 16:9 video.

You are correct that anamorphic and 16:9 480i are the same. What happens with 16:9 anamorphic video is that the black bars that would be present on a letterbox 4:3 video are not recorded into the 4:3 video frame. Instead, the space for the black bars is used for picture information by squeezing in the width which in turn pushes up the height. On playback the DVD player unsqueezes the picture for display on a 16:9 TV. On a 4:3 TV a properly set up DVD player will unsqueeze the picture while adding bars to the top and bottom to fill the 4:3 frame so it displays at the proper aspect ratio on the TV.

Hi Healy,

I have the Scientific Atlantica 8300 HD DVR. I can't use the s-video output for dubbing since the "copy to VCR" function works only through composite video. I'm dubbing a letterboxed movie right now with the picture fixed for 16x9. Would it better making all recordings at 4x3 or does this not affect the quality of playback?

Joe, you need to get some advice from someone who has your Toshiba recorder and hopefully the Scientific Atlanta box. My sense, though, is you can only record 4:3 letterbox from the cable box so setting the Toshibat to 16:9 isn't of any effect. I suggest doing some experimentation with different settings and see for yourself what you end up with and what looks best.

Joe, you need to get some advice from someone who has your Toshiba recorder and hopefully the Scientific Atlanta box. My sense, though, is you can only record 4:3 letterbox from the cable box so setting the Toshibat to 16:9 isn't of any effect. I suggest doing some experimentation with different settings and see for yourself what you end up with and what looks best.

HG,

Thanks so much for getting back to me. I tend to agree that the aspect ratio setting is of little consequence regarding the aspect ratio of the TV screen but that it has something to do with bit rate during recording. I'm going to contact Toshiba later this week and will let you know what they say.

Like most, Toshiba's owner's manual was vague in many areas. The company didn't provide an explanation of what the aspect ratio setting does - they just said to do it. Same thing with the manual for my brother's Panasonic hard drive recorder.

HealeyGuy is correct, with the Scientific Atlanta boxes any HiDef programming sent through the s-video or composite outputs will be automatically letterboxed.

Well, I spoke with a Toshiba representative and while no longer worried am still a little confused. The 16x9 aspect ratio should be used when recording a program in HD. Even though it does not record in high definition it sends a signal back to the TV for screen size and mentioned the picture might appear stretched if recorded in 4x3. I'm dubing now but later will experiment recording a HD program in both aspect ratios - I'll let you know if this had any effect on the automatic screen mode for my set.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

- Joe

Hope this will be the last posting regarding the aspect ratio for recording.

A letterbox or 16x9 film recorded in the 16x9 mode correctly fills a 16x9 screen proportionaltly when viewed in the "zoom" mode. 4x3 recorded in the same manner cuts off the top and bottom when in zoom but can be used in the "normal" mode.

Anything can be recorded in 16x9 and be viewed properly on the screen, however, when recording a 16x9 at 4x3 I thought the picture was slightly stretched during playback.

Thanks again for everyone's help on this.

This thread looks dead but does anybody have a list of recorders that have a seting for 16x9 input? Besides the gx300 and gx7 ?

Starting with an HDTV source, Should it make a quality difference if the 480 lines of resolution are captured in the 16x9 ratio instead of 4x3 and then stretching it?
Rob

This thread looks dead but does anybody have a list of recorders that have a seting for 16x9 input? Besides the gx300 and gx7 ?

Starting with an HDTV source, Should it make a quality difference if the 480 lines of resolution are captured in the 16x9 ratio instead of 4x3 and then stretching it?
Rob
There was some talk in the beginning of component digital recorders and 16x9 that we should use a higher sampling rate like 18 Mhz to take into account for the extra width of the widescreen. Panasonic had this mode on D5 recorders but few took advantage of it. When I saw the demo, I thought all I could see was a little more film grain. The picture was not improved much.

All SD DVDs use the same sampling rate. To get an excellent picture, wait for the high definition units this year.

Sorry, I don't have that list. But if you record a 16x9 picture, it should play back that way, unless you want to set a special flag for the players.

This thread looks dead but does anybody have a list of recorders that have a seting for 16x9 input? Besides the gx300 and gx7 ?

Starting with an HDTV source, Should it make a quality difference if the 480 lines of resolution are captured in the 16x9 ratio instead of 4x3 and then stretching it?
Rob

The Sony HX715 and HX900 do I believe.

I don't understand your second question but PQ by recording an anamorphic 16:9 video and watching it in "Full" mode on an HD 16:9 widescreen TV is better than if it is recorded in letterbox and using "zoom" mode to watch it.

The Sony HX715 and HX900 do I believe.

I don't understand your second question but PQ by recording an anamorphic 16:9 video and watching it in "Full" mode on an HD 16:9 widescreen TV is better than if it is recorded in letterbox and using "zoom" mode to watch it.

I'll try the 2nd part again. Although 2 of you have helped already..
Right now, I record hdtv from my hughes dish dvr / via svid / with my pio 510.
Rip it to my PC and use IFO edit to change the 4:3 flags to 16:9.

I would assume that capturing the 16:9 frame at 480i would give a better end result than capturing a 4:3 frame and stretching it later. Comments?
That's why I'm interested in a recorder that captures 16:9.

I've tried using the USB ports on the back of the DVR with no luck and
I've tried using my Sony TRV350 D8 camera for firewire pass thru to the PIO but haven't been successful either.

Which Sony was considered higher end? The gx7 or gx300?
Thanks for the help.
Rob

I'll try the 2nd part again. Although 2 of you have helped already..
Right now, I record hdtv from my hughes dish dvr / via svid / with my pio 510.
Rip it to my PC and use IFO edit to change the 4:3 flags to 16:9.

I would assume that capturing the 16:9 frame at 480i would give a better end result than capturing a 4:3 frame and stretching it later. Comments?
That's why I'm interested in a recorder that captures 16:9.red higher end?
Rob

The Pioneer 510 does record 16:9 video as 16:9. I've done it from my DV camcorder via both S-video and DV link. It isn't the Pioneer that is letterboxing the video but the device (your Hughes DVR) that does this when downsampling the HD video to 480i. For example, my Motorola 6412 always letterboxes its 480i output of the HD 16:9 channels. If I had a D-VHS deck I could capture the HD video from the Motorola via Firewire and use its option for 16:9 480i output to send widescreen video to the Pioneer 510 and produce a 16:9-formatted DVD.

If the Pioneer 510 failed to recognize a 16:9 source what you'd see is a vertically stretched 4:3 video. If you're seeing letterboxed video then that is what your Hughes PVR is sending to the Pioneer.

If the Pioneer 510 failed to recognize a 16:9 source what you'd see is a vertically stretched 4:3 video. If you're seeing letterboxed video then that is what your Hughes PVR is sending to the Pioneer.


It's cheaper to buy a dvd recorder To solve the problem than it is to shell out for a new HDTV dvr.
Are you also trying to tell me that the Sony won't fix the issue? Even if I flag the sony to capture 16x9 ~ The signal from the dvr will only allow it to record 4:3?

I have been playing the HD shows on 'full' via 480i output.
It stretches it vertically and I just change the flag via IFO edit before burning.
Rob

I'll try the 2nd part again. Although 2 of you have helped already..
Right now, I record hdtv from my hughes dish dvr / via svid / with my pio 510.
Rip it to my PC and use IFO edit to change the 4:3 flags to 16:9.

I would assume that capturing the 16:9 frame at 480i would give a better end result than capturing a 4:3 frame and stretching it later. Comments?
That's why I'm interested in a recorder that captures 16:9.

I've tried using the USB ports on the back of the DVR with no luck and
I've tried using my Sony TRV350 D8 camera for firewire pass thru to the PIO but haven't been successful either.

Which Sony was considered higher end? The gx7 or gx300?
Thanks for the help.
Rob


I attached a document that should help you. The important thing to figure out is whether your HD STB is putting out an anamorphic image. If you can change its output to 480i and you need "Full" mode to view it then it is probably anamorphic. If you need to use "Zoom" mode to view ithen it is not anamorphic. The attached document covers using the Sony GX7, Sony GX300, Panasonic ES10 and Pioneer 510.

Some people would say that the GX7 is higher end than the GX300 but I have both and the results are similar. The GX7 has a Firewire input.

It's cheaper to buy a dvd recorder To solve the problem than it is to shell out for a new HDTV dvr.
Are you also trying to tell me that the Sony won't fix the issue? Even if I flag the sony to capture 16x9 ~ The signal from the dvr will only allow it to record 4:3?

I have been playing the HD shows on 'full' via 480i output.
It stretches it vertically and I just change the flag via IFO edit before burning.
Rob
Since you're seeing the vertically stretched 4:3 recording on the Pioneer then it is failing to automatically recognize the 16:9 source. My previous post turns out to be pretty irrelevant in your case. There are situations where the Pioneer does automatically recognize 16:9, though. You apparently need a recorder that lets you manually set for 16:9 recording.

nikknightt,

It sounds like you have a DirecTV HD DVR with TiVo (originally made by Hughes), along with a Pioneer 510H DVD recorder.

I have a similar setup, except that I have the Pioneer 520H instead of the 510H. But they both behave the same with respect to widescreen recording.

Here is how it works for me, which I believe is the same as your description.

I originally record an HD 16x9 program on the HD TiVo. Then, to make a DVD copy of the program (in 480i of course), I set the HD TiVo for 480i resolution and Full aspect ratio (instead of panel). Viewing this on a 16x9 TV gives a full-screen, widescreen picture at 480i. Viewing the same source via s-video on a 4x3 TV results in a horizontally squished (or vertically stretched) picture filling the 4x3 screen. This mode gives you the best available picture detail from the HD TiVo on the s-video output. I believe you described the same setup on your HD TiVo.

Unfortunately, the HD TiVo does not provide the widescreen flag along with this anamorphic output. Recording this on my Pioneer DVD recorder results in no widescreen flag on the recording, even though the Pioneer would capture and record it if it were available. Playing this back on a widescreen TV is no problem because the original horizontally squished 4x3 picture is now horizontally stretched to fill the 16x9 screen. All is well so far. As you likely already know, this is exactly how a commercial DVD provides an "enhanced for widescreen" picture.

A problem occurs when watching the same recorded DVD on a 4x3 TV. Now you see the horizontally squished 4x3 picture. If there had been a widescreen flag present on the DVD, the DVD player would "letterbox" the video by adding black bars above and below the picture to give you the proper 16x9 video. Or, the DVD player might crop the sides of the picture (a.k.a., pan and scan) and display a full-screen 4x3 picture, minus the left and right edges that were cropped in order to fill the screen. The 4x3 TV display options you set in your DVD player determine which of these display modes applies.

So, to set the widescreen flag that will enable DVD players to display the video properly on a 4x3 TV, we import a copy of the original DVD produced on the Pioneer recorder into our PC or Mac, and use the appropriate programs to force the widescreen flag to be set properly. Then we burn the resulting files onto a new DVD "master" with the properly set widescreen flag.

You are getting the maximum available picture detail on your recorded DVDs using this process. The only way to improve the picture quality would be to obtain a newer DVD recorder that might have better analog to digital conversion and/or better MPEG-2 encoding.

A simpler process with fewer steps would be possible if you had either:

1) A source of 16x9 programs that actually sent the widescreen flag at the time of playback (no such device exists for DirecTV HD DVR service);

or;

2) A DVD recorder that lets you manually force the widescreen flag while recording from the HD source playing back at 480i. Some Sony recorders and a few others provide this capability.

I looked into the cost of buying a Sony with HDD and decided it cost too much for me. So I continue with my current process. I am quite pleased with the results, which video-wise rival commercial DVDs, IMHO, when viewed on my HDTV.

I wish we had a way to preserve the DD 5.1 audio through this process.

2) A DVD recorder that lets you manually force the widescreen flag while recording from the HD source playing back at 480i. Some Sony recorders and a few others provide this capability.


Thanks for everyone's detailed help.
Just to clarify, I have the hughes hr10-250 like you thought and the pio 520h. [not 510]

The one last big question i have, Is regarding the statement i quoted above this message.

Since i currently record hdtv from the dvr / via svideo / to my pio 520 using the "full" / 480i output. [which gives it that tall skinny look]
Rip it to my PC and use IFO edit to change the 4:3 flags to 16:9.
It's now the way most of you have suggested. Looks good BUT.

Wouldn't it look better if I started with a sony gx300 and flagged it as a 16x9 capture first? Or is it pretty much the same thing? You'd end up with a better looking 16x9 movie when finished wouldn't you? Better than a stretched 4x3?

I know how to make it work now, I'm just looking for the smart thing to do until HD recorders are reasonably priced. I know where i can get a warrantied refurb gx300 for $169.00.

And in case somebody has other ideas, I also have the devices listed below.
jvc hd-ila tv with firewire in/out [gonna try that next]
liteon 5001 dvd recorder
sony trv350 dig8
philips 985 dvd+rw

cheers.
Rob

Thanx akastp.
I think i figured it out about the same time you posted.
It's comes out of the dvr as 4x3 so if the sony does it or i do it on the pc ~ It's still just stretching it.

You guys saved me 169$$
Now since i [think] have this figured out. It's pretty close to the time dtv is supposed to change all these dvr's to new mpeg4's isn't it? That might change the flag thing too.
That's probably for another thread..
Rob

Its the same thing. The picture is the same either way, the difference is the flag. The Sony sets the flag during the recording which has the same end result as setting it on the PC with IfoEdit. The big benefit of the Sony is that you don't need to take the time to copy the DVD to your PC, tweak the flag and re-burn the DVD.

AksStp is correct. Note however that you need to set the TV Aspect Ratio (under Setup/Video/TV Aspect Ratio in the menu) to Widescreen 16:9 on the DirecTV HR10-250 HD Tivo STB. This is more important than setting the TV Aspect Correction (under Setup/Video/TV Aspect Correction in the menu) to 4:3 or Panel - I use Panel for all my recordings but I don't see a difference in recordings made with either Aspect Correction setting from HD content. However on the HR10-250 SD content will be distorted unless you use "Panel".

I use my Sony GX7 and my two GX300 DVD reorders so that I don't have to upload the DVD to my PC to set the 16:9 flag so that the DVD will play undistorted on a 4:3 SD TV. This works using DVD-Rs for DVDs two hours or less. I believe that the HX715 extends this capability to 2.5 hours but you would need to confirm that in the HX715 manual. I use my Panasonic ES10 for recordings longer than two hours because it retains the resoultion out to 4 hours which the Sony recorders do not. I believe that the newer Pioneers also retain their resolution beyond 2 hours but it varies from model to model. In any case you would need to upload the DVDs to a PC (and burn a new DVD) if you want to reset the 16:9 flags using a software program such as IfoEdit when using the Panasonic and Pioneer DVD recorders.

I would buy the Sony for $169.95 if I were you and the bulk of your recordings were two hours or less. You will save time and effort.

Here is a reference to anamorphic DVDs that will help you understand how and why the strectching occurs:
http://www.dvdfile.com/news/special_report/production_a_z/anamorphic.htm

I'm still thinking about the Sony but I record everything on dvdrw then usually reauthor it on the PC anyways. Change the menu and normalize the audio. Recorders seem to keep the audio level low. Sucks for concerts and music vids.

But it sounds like i don't need it with my PIO, If i can somehow get 16x9 out of a HD source, problem solved.

My JVC tv says only jvc firewire devices can be used with the ports...I thought I had a shot there. Does JVC make any recorders?
Rob

A friend of mine with a GX300 doesn't know how to set it to capture 16x9.
Can someone post instructions on how to?
Thanks.
Rob

I'm still thinking about the Sony but I record everything on dvdrw then usually reauthor it on the PC anyways. Change the menu and normalize the audio. Recorders seem to keep the audio level low. Sucks for concerts and music vids.
Since you're recording with the Pioneer's line inputs you can boost the audio signal +3 or +6 db in the Initial Setup>Audio In menu.

My JVC tv says only jvc firewire devices can be used with the ports...I thought I had a shot there. Does JVC make any recorders?
Rob
I believe the Firewire link on the TV is for TS streams and not for DV video. Therefore it won't work with a DVD recorder's firewire link. It would work with a JVC D-VHS recorder.

A friend of mine with a GX300 doesn't know how to set it to capture 16x9.
Can someone post instructions on how to?
Thanks.
Rob

See page 48 0f the manual:
1) in stop mode press Tools on the remote
2) select Rec Settings and press Enter
3) select DVD Rec Picture Size and press Enter
4) select 16:9

But it sounds like i don't need it with my PIO, If i can somehow get 16x9 out of a HD source, problem solved.



Good luck finding one. Such a beast does not exist for DirecTV and as far as I can tell there is no HD STB that puts out a 16:9 flag that would be recognized by a Pioneer DVD recorder.

I thought I read somewhere that one of the Hughes HD DirecTV receivers was found to output the widescreen flag--the HTL-HD (or something like that--my memory is not that great for details). Of course that is NOT a DVR, just an HD DirecTV + OTA tuner.

See page 48 0f the manual:
1) in stop mode press Tools on the remote
2) select Rec Settings and press Enter
3) select DVD Rec Picture Size and press Enter
4) select 16:9


Thanx aprest.

somebody just hack the dtv dvr and enable the usb ports... usb 1.0 puts out 5mb a second right? go usb to firewire.
Rob

I believe you mean USB 1.1 and I believe you mean 12Mb/s.

I believe you mean USB 1.1 and I believe you mean 12Mb/s.


1.1? Ok- not 2.0. WHatever.
Did you see a question mark at the end? I was told once it was 5mb.
Back when i bought the AVS mpeg2 capture device yrs ago.

Can you hack the dvr?
Rob

1.1? Ok- not 2.0.
If you mean USB 2.0, then the bitrate is 480Mb/s.

First you were telling people to hack it, now you're asking if it can be done? Maybe you should have asked first.

This discussion is getting off topic. Nikknight, if you want info on hacking DVR's, please search or post in a forum where the DVR experts are located. Meanwhile, this thread is about what happens when HD sources are recorded on current SD DVD recorders.

This discussion is getting off topic. Nikknight, if you want info on hacking DVR's, please search or post in a forum where the DVR experts are located. Meanwhile, this thread is about what happens when HD sources are recorded on current SD DVD recorders.

Yes it is getting off topic. However, We also talked about using the svid/component outputs to try and find a way to get the DTV DVR to flag the 16x9 video. If you don't have one, Another output on the Hughes HD DVR box is USB but the USB ports aren't active for use. Hence the 'hack it' comment.
and you can call me Rob.

What does 'small tank' in reference to the GX300 mean?

While a HD picture recorded onto a DVD recorder pales in comparision to the original source, a down converted HD source viewed through the recorder input looks very much the same when dubbed on LP or better. If one accepts this there will be few disappointments. I record from the HD stations for widescreen versions of films only seen in pan and scan on digital.

I also use the "zoom" on my Sony XBR960 to view 16x9 or letterboxed material. My first recorder, the Toshiba DR4 (returned because copy protection suddenly kicked in) had a 16x9 aspect ratio for recording; maybe had the output of my cable box been set to 480i those dubs could have been viewed using the "full" mode. Irrelevant now since I replaced it with the Panasonic ES20.

A friend of mine with a GX300 doesn't know how to set it to capture 16x9.
Can someone post instructions on how to?
Thanks.
Rob
Try reading the thread with "16:9 picture" in it, since I had a related question.

It seems to boil down to the capabilities of the digital tuner / STB that supplies the signal to the DVD Recorder which is usually sent over S-Video. If that can't send down squeezed 16:9 in a 4:3 box or can't pass 16:9 as letterboxed 4:3 (with a flag) then you may be out of luck.

Peter

See page 48 0f the manual:
1) in stop mode press Tools on the remote
2) select Rec Settings and press Enter
3) select DVD Rec Picture Size and press Enter
4) select 16:9

There are limitations to this however - quoting from page 48

* It only works with DVD-R and DVD-RW (Video), not DVD+RW not DVD+R (where the screen size is set at 4:3)

* It only works when recording mode is set to HQ, HSP or SP - so a max of 2 hours.

* With DVD-RW (VR mode) the actual picture size is recorded regardless of this setting - if you don't mind this mode, this seem to be the best choice. The manual doesn't state with recording modes can be used.

peter

...What does 'small tank' in reference to the GX300 mean?
I don't have one, but that comment relates to the GX300 being a heavy, ruggedly built unit, unlike some of the newer generation Sony's.

What does 'small tank' in reference to the GX300 mean?
It only takes a few gallons before it needs a refill to keep it powered :-)

peter

Can somone post the part # for the GX300 remote?
IS it rmt-d205a ?

Can somone post the part # for the GX300 remote?
IS it rmt-d205a ?

Yes: RMT-D205A

So, according to what this thread is posting Nero's 7 Ultra Edition is Bunk? Or are you just saying that if your recording from a hd reciver to a dvd recorder and not an HTPC the likelyhood resulting format would not exceed 480i.

http://ww2.nero.com/nero7/enu/Nero_7_Premium_New_Features.html

So, according to what this thread is posting Nero's 7 Ultra Edition is Bunk? Or are you just saying that if your recording from a hd reciver to a dvd recorder and not an HTPC the likelyhood resulting format would not exceed 480i.

http://ww2.nero.com/nero7/enu/Nero_7_Premium_New_Features.html
Sorry, but I've gone to that link and don't see anything the contradicts this thread. Today's DVD recorders only record standard definition video which is 480i. None of these recorders downsample HD video sources. Depending on your hardware you might be able to get 16:9 SD video but most likely you'll get 4:3 letterbox when recording from an HDTV channel to a standalone DVD recorder.

Sorry, but I've gone to that link and don't see anything the contradicts this thread. Today's DVD recorders only record standard definition video which is 480i. None of these recorders downsample HD video sources. Depending on your hardware you might be able to get 16:9 SD video but most likely you'll get 4:3 letterbox when recording from an HDTV channel to a standalone DVD recorder.


It specifically states "Capture, edit and export High-Definition (HD) video files. "

It specifically states "Capture, edit and export High-Definition (HD) video files. "
But what does that have to do with standalone DVD recorders? I can capture, edit and export HD sources with my Mac with mostly free software but there's no way to get those into my DVD recorder or player unless they get converted to SD 480i.

Thank you for answering my question.

The key is that there is no DVD Standard yet for anything beyond 480i. So DVDs as they are today (notwithstanding HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) simply cannot hold HD content and still comply with the DVD Standard. 720x480 is the maximum resolution allowed by the DVD Standard.

Why Is This Thread Stuck On Top?

Why Is This Thread Stuck On Top?

To reduce the number of posts asking how to record high definition TV on DVD recorders.

The forum administrator places the "Sticky" attribute when he decides the subject should not be "pushed back" as time goes by and no one responds to keep it up front. It is something important for everyone in that thread to at least see, if not read. The adm. can do this on his own, or at the request of a poster, as in the case of the High-Def. subject.

Hi, heres a real "newb" question. I am getting a DVD recorder soon (to be named later) to copy a bunch of programs from my Motorola 6412. My question is in regards to the hook-ups. Can I output the DVR to the DVD recorder AND the TV at the same time. Obviously, I want to keep the HD signal to the TV but will the PVR output to both locations at once? Do I have to do some rewiring?
thanks so much, this forum and you guys are awesome!

Hopefully the manual for your STB answers that question. But you may have to experiment. Or call customer support. Another way would be for someone with the same model of STB, that has already gotten the answer, to report it here.

I see that model mentioned a lot around here, maybe a search would reveal some discussion that helps you.

Yes, you can connect the DVR to the DVD recorder via S-video and still retain the HD connection to your TV. It's no different from using a VCR to record from the DVR.

How about just using (oh the horror of being OT) D-VHS? It is about the same cost as some of these dvd recorder others are mentioning.

I'm considering just that since I recently switched my HD STB for one with FireWire output. Unfortunately without that a D-VHS deck will do little good to record HD material. Unless you know of one that can take its HD input on Component Video?

W-VHS does just that in an analog format, but its mucho dinero and those that want one usually just go the D-VHS route. Since you state you have a box with firewire, and I know that ebay has many decks up there. You just need to decide whether you want to watch hollywood pre-recorded movies on your box or not. PM me and I can give you more info that if I would to post here would bring this thread really off topic.

I know that I cannot record HD using my current dvd recorder, but when I look at the dvds I recorded from the HD channels when I had Voom they look outstanding. I am in no hurry to embrace any new HD recording technology when I have been happy with an SD recording made from an HD signal. Probably someday, but I am not jumping on the bandwagon when it begins.
Let me ask you ,when you record HD programing in your SD DVD Recorder do you get full wide screen??? and how is the picture quality??? The reason why I ask, with the soccer world cup being broadcast in HD beginning in June, (60 games=120 hours) I can't put them all in my HD-DVR so I like to start a little collection of World Cup games since there isn't a HD DVD Recorder out there......and also what brand do you recommend to get.

If you read some more of this Topic (or many of the other Topics in this Forum that are talking about recording widescreen) you'll see that it's really up to your cable box as to whether it can output non-letterboxed widescreen 480i over a compatible kind of A/V connection (Composite, S-Video, Component). Then you have the second issue of whether your recorder will automatically recognize that it is receiving a widescreen signal, and set the flag on the resulting DVD appropriately, or if you can tell it manually to do that, or worst case, that you have to set the flag through a procedure involving a PC. So you see there is a fair bit to the answer(s) to your question, and "try it and see" is one of the best ways of finding the answer, I realize that doesn't help you without a DVD Recorder to try it with in front of you, but looking around at some of the Topics that talk about this problem/issue may help you find a model of DVD Recorder that at least can manually set the widescreen flag, if not automatically. Then it will just be up to your cable box, as to whether it can provide an appropriate signal, as I first outlined.

I am in the market for a DVD Recorder and would prefer one that allows me to manually set the 16:9 flag (since my STB will not send it). I'm leaning towards the DVR-533/633. Can anyone say for certain whether or not these units allow you to manually set the 16:9 flag?

Thanks!

I can say for certain that they DO NOT let you manually set the flag.

They will, however, honor and preserve a flag that was passed from the source device. Of course, the problem is that many sources do not pass the flag along.

I can say for certain that they DO NOT let you manually set the flag.

They will, however, honor and preserve a flag that was passed from the source device. Of course, the problem is that many sources do not pass the flag along.

I know this is a long shot, but does anyone out there have a list of DVD Recorders that DO allow you to manually set the 16:9 flag when the source does not pass it?

Unfortunately this is not something that is typically listed in model specs, so it's almost impossible to determine before you buy.

I know this is a long shot, but does anyone out there have a list of DVD Recorders that DO allow you to manually set the 16:9 flag when the source does not pass it?

Unfortunately this is not something that is typically listed in model specs, so it's almost impossible to determine before you buy.

Sony GX7, GX300, HX900 and HX715 do. Note that Sony GX315 and VX515 do not. There might be other ones that do.

I am thinking of getting the Toshiba RD-XS54 combo DVD recorder/hard drive to archive SD copies of SD programs that I will not be able to get to before it is time to swap the HD Tivo for the new D* model.

1. Can I use the save to VCR feature to download directly to the Toshiba's hard drive or do I have to record to DVD and then from DVD to the hard drive? Does it take real time (actual length of the program) to make the copy through either or both of these methods?

2. The Toshiba records in DVD-RAM and DVD-RW. Are there any advantages of one over the other?

3. If I have a single sat feed connected to the HD Tivo (I have 2 units), can I record something from the sat while archiving? Can I play something else on the HD Tivo while archiving?

1. Direct to the HDD works fine on every model I'm aware of. Real time, yes.

2. No short answer for this, have a look around, there are many discussion about it, as well as other resources not in this Forum, an internet search should reveal much.

3. That's up to your HD Tivo box(es), that ability is not controlled by the DVD Recorder.

By the way it seems your questions are not appropriate to the subject of this Topic.

I am thinking of getting the Toshiba RD-XS54 combo DVD recorder/hard drive to archive SD copies of SD programs that I will not be able to get to before it is time to swap the HD Tivo for the new D* model.

1. Can I use the save to VCR feature to download directly to the Toshiba's hard drive or do I have to record to DVD and then from DVD to the hard drive? Does it take real time (actual length of the program) to make the copy through either or both of these methods?

2. The Toshiba records in DVD-RAM and DVD-RW. Are there any advantages of one over the other?

3. If I have a single sat feed connected to the HD Tivo (I have 2 units), can I record something from the sat while archiving? Can I play something else on the HD Tivo while archiving?

You can playback one program on the HD TiVo while recording (from satellite) one or two more.

The safest way to do this is using the "Save to VCR" function on the TiVo because it will prevent pop up windows from appearing during the playback.

I have done this myself, recording to a Pioneer 520H (roughly comparable to a current Pioneer 533 or upcoming Pioneer 540).

Ok if someone could point me in the right direction i would really appreciate it. i am getting a new 16:9 widescreen hdtv in a week. I have a comcast dct6412 motorolla dvr box and a JVC drm100s dvd recorder. What i want to do is record all of the HD material i have on this Dvr to DVD via JVC drm100s. I need this video to be anamorphic widescreen. i dont care for having this DVD playing right on a 4:3 screen because i am going to have a 16:9 so i want anamorphic widescreen.

1)is this possible with my setup?
2)is quality better when recording from hd?
3)if it is not possible, is there another dvd recorder that can do it?

Ok if someone could point me in the right direction i would really appreciate it. i am getting a new 16:9 widescreen hdtv in a week. I have a comcast dct6412 motorolla dvr box and a JVC drm100s dvd recorder. What i want to do is record all of the HD material i have on this Dvr to DVD via JVC drm100s. I need this video to be anamorphic widescreen. i dont care for having this DVD playing right on a 4:3 screen because i am going to have a 16:9 so i want anamorphic widescreen.

1)is this possible with my setup?
2)is quality better when recording from hd?
3)if it is not possible, is there another dvd recorder that can do it?
It is not possible with your set up. The Motorola 6412 will not output an anamorphic widescreen video at 480i via any connection so there is no way to record in that format to a DVD recorder. You could do this with a JVC D-VHS recorder connected to the 6412's Firewire port in which case you will be recording the HD stream and not 480i. Information about D-VHS is in the AVS HDTV Recorders forum.

Are you surei cant? have you tried. Another member(dave harper) has said this in sanother forum

You can record via component if the DVD recorder has that input AND you have to make sure to put the source's component out to 480i NTSC.
What I do is set the cable box up like it's going to a widescreen TV so that even if the DVD recorder records it in 4x3, the image is squished into the 4x3 frame. Then when I play it back I stretch it back out with the TVs screen mode. A psuedo anamorphic if you will.

What you want for settings is as I said:

tv type : 16:9
ypbpr output : 480i
4:3 override : (Will be greyed out)

This will effect the s-video output as well and should now make widescreen HD programs squeezed into your 4:3 TV display at 480i for recording purposes. (Use these settings only when making a WS recording, normally you want TV Out to 4:3 LB, YPbPr to 480i as long as you still have your 4:3 TV)


And then someone replied with this

It does work with S-video. I've done it several times myself. With my TV's aspect ratio set to "FULL", the picture is display properly (as though it was an anamorphic DVD movie). Read Dave Harper's post (#19) for instructions on how to set up your Motorola STB to output a 16X9 image in 480i.

Are you sure i cant?
Motorola cable boxes output HD sources as letterbox 4:3 from any connection when set to 480i. When set to 480p you get the anamorphic image via component output but your DVD recorder can't accept a 480p signal, nor can it accept 720p or 1080i. Comcast has plans to distribute a Panasonic DVR by year end (yeah, right!) and it may do this differently. Also there may be future DVD recorders that can accept something other than 480i. But for now, the Motorola-brand DVR doesn't do what you want.

Then, again, maybe I should try once more. It didn't work with a series 1 6412 but I just got a series 3 and haven't checked into this.

Just checked. No change.

yeah this guy was dead sure he got anamorphic widescreen onto the dvd. he said it squeezed the picture, then when you watch it on your widescreen display, just hit the full mode.

You don't know you have anamorphic widescreen on the DVD until you play it back on a 4:3 display and see the letterboxing as opposed to everything being too tall. It's the anamorphic part that makes the DVD Player play it back differently depending on the aspect ratio of the display.

i just want to record this HD widescreen stuff and then to be able to play it on my widescreen tv as though it was true widescreen. This guy dave harper says he can do it in that thread. He says set the motorola to 480i output and use compoent to the DVD recorder

No problem, all you need for that is your STB to send out 480i with no letterboxing on a conncetion type (Composite, S-Video, or Component) that is accepted by your DVD Recorder. Some will do it and some insist on adding the letterboxing.

dwhen you said "some", did you mean some dvd recorders or some STB's????

Your STB needs to be able to send the signal with no letterboxing. Some STB's will do it, others insist on adding the letterboxing.

DVD Recorders do not add letterboxing.

i just want to record this HD widescreen stuff and then to be able to play it on my widescreen tv as though it was true widescreen. This guy dave harper says he can do it in that thread. He says set the motorola to 480i output and use compoent to the DVD recorder
I wish it was true, too. When I set the Motorola box to 16:9 and component output to 480i the signal received by my TV is 4:3 letterboxed. Probably in this thread and definitely in others there is discussion of boxes that will output the anamorphic 16:9 via 480i component connections. If there is a satellite service that has one of those boxes you might go that route instead of Comcast.

I just set-up a Panny Plasma, that I will be doing 90% of my viewing on. Use TWC SA-8300, watch mostly HD channels. Record HD and SD to DVR.

I have a JVC DVHS and Panny E80H. I currently have the SA-8300 S-video out to E80H, but have not experimented much. Will DVHS do a better job than the E80H?

SD content in "Just" mode looks good on the Plasma, but I would not want PQ to be much worse than that for HD archiving. Archiving to 300 gig hard drives through the SA-8300 SATA port is appealing, but not convenient if I want to watch a DVD on another set.

I'm sure DVHS will record better Picture Quality than a current DVD Recorder, since DVD Recorders are limited to 480x720 resolution and DVHS can record full 1920x1080 resolution. Assuming of course that the material you want to record takes advantage of that resolution.

Just got a Sony RDRHX900 DVD recorder with Component In. When I output 16:9 video (480i) from my Sony DHG-HDD500 HDTV DVR via Component the 900 records it letterboxed. I have to hit Zoom on the TV to get a full screen 16:9 out of the 900, I'm recording onto the hard drive in SP mode. TV aspect settings on the 900 make no difference. I thought this DVD recorder would accept 16:9 in full without zooming. Zooming degrades the picture slightly, is this the best 16:9 image I'm gonna get on a SD DVD recorder??

I thought this DVD recorder would accept 16:9 in full without zooming.Probably the tenth time I've had to say this in this Forum:

Your STB is letterboxing it, not the DVD Recorder.

NO DVD Recorders letterbox the incoming signal, they just record it as it is.

Along the same topic (but not exactly on the "recording" topic... I just tried to watch Diehard on my new 16:9 Plasma from my E80H recorder (the original DVD, not a recording). It comes through letterboxed (no STB involved), but the zoom mode on the 42PX60U doesn't zoom nearly enough to get rid of the black bars. Same size no matter what settings I have on the E80H. Suggestions? I don't want black bars on anything during "burn-in", which means I can only watch 16:9 DVD's?

Most movies are even wider than 16:9. So some black bars are still needed even on a 16:9 display.

I realize that, 2.35:1. But I would think "Zoom" mode would get rid of the bars (and cut-off the L&R sides), but it doesn't. On a letterboxed TV show, the zoom will get rid of the top and bottom bars, why wouldn't zoom work any differently on a DVD?

OK BOB. I seemed to remember dubbing 16:9 from the same HDTV recorder to my older Panny DVD recorder and did not have to zoom for fullscreen 16:9 playback, but this was via S-Video. I thought the Sony DVD with component in would be an improvement over using S-video, so far it is not.

I realize that, 2.35:1. But I would think "Zoom" mode would get rid of the bars (and cut-off the L&R sides), but it doesn't. On a letterboxed TV show, the zoom will get rid of the top and bottom bars, why wouldn't zoom work any differently on a DVD?Zoom only enlarges the picture enough to get rid of the black bars of the size needed to make a 16:9 image fit a 4:3 display (typically). For movies, wider than 16:9 as you point out, those bars need to be even thicker (vertically). Zoom does not enlarge the picture enough to completely push the even-thicker-than-16:9 bars offscreen, otherwise it would also push some of the sides of the image off the left and right edges of the display.

The enlargment factor needed to get a 16:9 image that is letterboxed to 4:3 to fill a 16:9 display is 4/3 (12:9 -> 16:9). The amount of black bars you need to add to letterbox a 16:9 image to fit in a 4:3 display is 1/3 of the original image height (16:9 -> 16:12). That makes the height of the image portion of a letterboxed 16:9 screen take up 3/4 of the overall screen height. Multiply that 3/4 image portion height by the 4/3 "Zoom" enlargment factor and you have the height back to 1 again, with the width 33% wider than it was when shown as a 4:3 image (black bars on all four sides).

OK BOB. I seemed to remember dubbing 16:9 from the same HDTV recorder to my older Panny DVD recorder and did not have to zoom for fullscreen 16:9 playback, but this was via S-Video. I thought the Sony DVD with component in would be an improvement over using S-video, so far it is not.If your STB put out non-letterboxed video on its S-Video output, then that would explain it.

Funny because usually it is the other way around with STB's, they put non-letterboxed out the Component Video and letterboxed out the S-Video.

But I would think "Zoom" mode would get rid of the bars (and cut-off the L&R sides), but it doesn't.I see what you're asking for, a Zoom that enlarges a different amount based on how "letterboxed" the image is. No it doesn't work that way, typically it enlarges enough for 16:9 to just fit but 2:35 will still leave (thinner) bars. The "smarter" Zoom might be a good idea, as long as you don't mind losing some of the sides as you correctly point out would happen.

Maybe this has been answered before but I could not find it when I searched on any of the AVS forums.

Can you record HD content (local plus HBO, HDNET et al) from a Verizon Motorola FIOS QIP6416 DVR to a DVD recorder using either component or S-Video 480i outputs from the QIP6416? If so, is the output 16:9 anamorphic or 16:9 letterbox?

Maybe this has been answered before but I could not find it when I searched on any of the AVS forums.

Can you record HD content (local plus HBO, HDNET et al) from a Verizon Motorola FIOS QIP6416 DVR to a DVD recorder using either component or S-Video 480i outputs from the QIP6416? If so, is the output 16:9 anamorphic or 16:9 letterbox?
I think the answer is it is letterboxed. See this thread Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=696543)

I have a HDTV-ready monitor 32" samsung When I record to my dvd recorder 80gb hard drive then play it back on the Hard drive its not real clear,but i can trasfer that recording to a dvd take play on my 27" tv its std tv it plays good....My HDTV hasnt got the HD package hooked up yet so its not rec HD channels

I have a HDTV-ready monitor 32" samsung When I record to my dvd recorder 80gb hard drive then play it back on the Hard drive its not real clear,but i can trasfer that recording to a dvd take play on my 27" tv its std tv it plays good....My HDTV hasnt got the HD package hooked up yet so its not rec HD channels
This could be related to how you have the Samsung set up to display 480i video. If you have it set up to zoom in on the picture or stretch the picture to avoid the black side bars then that could be the reason the picture looks worse on the Samsung than on the standard TV. If you are recording at a 2-hour-per-DVD or better mode your picture should look near the same on the Samsung as when you are watching straight from the DVD recorder's tuner.

Hello everyone,
I love this forum and all the help that it provides. I have just purchased a Panasonic EV75 DVD recorder and when I scanned the channels in the setup, it did not save and will not let me tune to any HD channels. Is that because it can not record in HD? I would have thought that it would tune it and maybe even display it to the TV, then simply record it in 480i. You know a VHS would take 480i and record it in something alittle less.

My second question concerns Sat. DVRs. I love my OTA HD, but my cable sucks and I would like to get SAT. in order to get the "other" channels that are not on broadcast. Do HD DVRs from Directv or Dish Network record in HD for later playback in 720P or 1080i? If they do, then why couldn't a DVD recorder with a HDD record OTA HD material? Thanks for the help.

You Panasonic recorder has an analog channel tuner so it can't tune any digital channels (such as the HD channels). You need a separate device that can tune those channels and then downrez the video to 480i for output to your recorder via line cables. A satellite DVR will do that. Yes, those record the HD digital stream for later playback in HD.

Hello everyone,
I love this forum and all the help that it provides. I have just purchased a Panasonic EV75 DVD recorder and when I scanned the channels in the setup, it did not save and will not let me tune to any HD channels. Is that because it can not record in HD? I would have thought that it would tune it and maybe even display it to the TV, then simply record it in 480i. You know a VHS would take 480i and record it in something alittle less.

My second question concerns Sat. DVRs. I love my OTA HD, but my cable sucks and I would like to get SAT. in order to get the "other" channels that are not on broadcast. Do HD DVRs from Directv or Dish Network record in HD for later playback in 720P or 1080i? If they do, then why couldn't a DVD recorder with a HDD record OTA HD material? Thanks for the help.

HealeyGuy is correct. The DirecTV HR10-250 HD Tivo DVD can record both satellite HD and OTA HD programs and play them back to an HD TV using 720p or 1080i. You can record to your DVD recorder using S-Video from the HR10-250. You need to setup the HR10-250 to get an anamorphic video to record on your DVD recorder. There are several posts in this thread to help you do that. Be aware that the DVD that you record on your Panasonic will not have the ifo flags set correctly and although the burned DVD will play perfectly in Normal Mode on a 16:9 widescreen HD TV it will be squeezed from the sides on a 4:3 SD TV.

I don't know about Dish Network. I believe that if you get Verizon's FIOS TV service that the Motorola DVR STB will not output an anamorphic signal on S-Video and thus you get a letterbox image with bars all around when you burn a DVD and play it back on a 16:9 widescreen HD TV in Normal Mode. You can zoom the letterboxed image to fill the screen but it isn't as sharp as an anamorphic image.

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the help. Do you know if there are any DVD Recorders out there that have a digital tuner or do the manufacturers think that it is a waste since the DVD is in 480i? I would think that the HDD could record in HD and playback in 720 or 1080. If you wanted to burn a DVD, then it would have to down scale to 480. It seems logical the way I have described, what am I missing here? Why no digital tuner in Panny's top machines? How about other makes and models?

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the help. Do you know if there are any DVD Recorders out there that have a digital tuner or do the manufacturers think that it is a waste since the DVD is in 480i? I would think that the HDD could record in HD and playback in 720 or 1080. If you wanted to burn a DVD, then it would have to down scale to 480. It seems logical the way I have described, what am I missing here? Why no digital tuner in Panny's top machines? How about other makes and models?
What you want is logical but not available. My guess is it would cost too much and the market for it would be too small. And it's not a problem because it works fine using two devices. Things will change when HD-capable disc recorders enter the marketplace.

If there are no current DVD recorders that have digital tuners, when will we have some to select from? If I buy the current HR10-250 from Directv, will I have to buy something else to pick up the MPEG 4 channels or will ALL the channels be compressed into MPEG 4 and I have a paper weight in the HR10?

when will we have some to select from?I give up, when?

Sarcasm aside, we are all on the same side of that question as you are. As in wanting to know and not being able to find an answer.

If there are no current DVD recorders that have digital tuners, when will we have some to select from?Probably not much sooner than the law requires them to have digital tuners.

If I buy the current HR10-250 from Directv, will I have to buy something else to pick up the MPEG 4 channels or will ALL the channels be compressed into MPEG 4 and I have a paper weight in the HR10?There are many threads that address this in tivocommunity.com.

OTA HDTV broadcasts (received over a TV antenna, not a dish) will be MPEG-2 for a long, long time. The HD TiVo (HR10-250) will be able to record these for a long, long time, along with recording any non-HD satellite programs, which will also be MPEG-2 for a long, long time.

I have 2 HD TiVo's that I expect to be using for several more years in this manner. If the the DirecTV HD DVR (non-TiVo) is even tolerable, I may consider adding one to the mix here to be able to timeshift MPEG-4 HD satellite channels.

But these have nothing to do with standard definition 480i DVD recorders that are discussed in this forum because there is no officially-suuported means of moving HD or digital SD program recordings from the HD TiVo to a DVD recorder except as an analog signal, typically using S-video and L+R stereo audio connections.

If you are able to get an HD TiVo very inexpensively or free, and if you are able to receive HDTV local channels OTA, I would consider it a good choice. If you cannot receive OTA HDTV broadcasts, perhaps not.

Hey Dave,
Thanks for you well spoken help. Do I understand that when Directv goes MPEG 4 that I would no longer be able to receive HD from the sat. carrier? That would be a bummer, although I could still get the locals in HD as long as I use my OTA antenae, is that correct?

Hey Dave,
Thanks for you well spoken help. Do I understand that when Directv goes MPEG 4 that I would no longer be able to receive HD from the sat. carrier? That would be a bummer, although I could still get the locals in HD as long as I use my OTA antenae, is that correct?
Yes, you will be able to use your HD TiVo with the OTA antenna for local HD channels even after all of the satellite HD channels are converted to MPEG-4.

DirecTV will be phasing in the MPEG-4, starting with local channels (4 per city), regional sports channels, then newer national HD channels.

The current DirecTV national HD channels will be MPEG-2 until they can get MPEG-4 STBs to all subscribers across the nation. Some folks believe that will take about 2 years.

So, you really won't lose ground with an HR10-250, but you won't get any newer HD satellite channels.

I have found that most of my HDTV timeshifting is from the OTA channels, so the HD TiVo will serve me well for some time.

My fear was that Directv would change all of its HD material to the MPEG 4 compression and that would render the HR10 useless to me since HD is what I like to view. If the HD they have now is going to stay in the current form, I will consider giving the "firesale" HR10 a shot. I will do some homework on Dish's vip622 also. It is my understanding that it is MPEG 4 capable now.

There's a firesale on the HR10 right now?
Rob

IMO, there seems to be some additional discounts on those units due to the new MPEG 4 units that are supposed to be released soon. It is a bummer that the new ones will not have the Tivo interface. These units are down to around $300 now when they were twice that not many months ago. I guess Directv wants to keep the ones they have left moving.

Maybe this has been answered before but I could not find it when I searched on any of the AVS forums.

Can you record HD content (local plus HBO, HDNET et al) from a Verizon Motorola FIOS QIP6416 DVR to a DVD recorder using either component or S-Video 480i outputs from the QIP6416? If so, is the output 16:9 anamorphic or 16:9 letterbox?

It will be 16X9 if you buy a recorder that accepts component input (as far as I know only Philips makes them and only SOME of theirs have them).

My cable box also letterboxes everyhting on the composite or s-video output, so I use component. See my experience here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=714818

Neat way to record anamorphic video to DVD from cable box using a JVC D-VHS VCR.

Here's a tidbit for some Cox Cable users. I've recorded some HD material off of cable and recently purchased a Philips DVD recorder. Why the Philips? It's fairly cheap and is one of the only recorders that has component video input recording. It will only take 480i on those inputs however.

I have the cable box firewire output connected to the VCR and HDMI from the VCR to the TV. The component video is set from the VCR as 480i but in 16x9 mode. This allows the DVD recorder to record in anamorphic 16x9 video mode, something my cable box (Motorola 6412) won't do. While it's not HD by any means, it gives you the best video for the regular DVD format. Works like a champ.
Isn't this what the thread is about?

I know this is a new product, but has anybody had any recent experience recording down-rezzed HD from D*s new HR20 DVR to their DVD recorders?
Here is my situation:


My DVD recorder is a Sony RDRGX7. I have set the recording options (rec screen size) on this recorder to 16x9. The documentation that comes with the recorder states that the rec screen size "function works with DVD-R's and DVD-RWs (video mode) when the recording mode is set to HQ, HSP or SP. For all other recording modes, the screen size is fixed at 4:3. For DVD-RWs (VR Mode), the actual picture size is recorded regardlesss of the setting. For instance, if a 16:9 size picutre is received the disc records the picture as 16:9 even if "Rec Streen Size" is set to 4:3. For DVD+Rs, th screen size is fixed at 4:3."

My monitor is an older 4:3 Sony HDTV that displays 1080i and 480p in a 16x9 frame. I have the HR20 set up as follows:

T.V. Type: Widescreen 16:9
T.V. Resolution:
480i checked
480p checked
1080i checked
Native: On
Screen Format: stretch

What settings or adjustments do I have to make (either to the DVD recorder or the HR20) to get HD material (downrezzed to 480i) and inputed into the s-video connection of the RDRGX7 to get a propertly adjusted image? I'm going to do some experimenting this evening - I think the stretch screen format is the issue - and will post my results, but if anyone has struggled with this before, I would like to know...thanks.

The STB has to be able to send the signal out (in 480i of course) without letterboxing it (preferably on S-Video). Ideally it would also send the 16:9 flag, so your recorder would know to record it as such, but you have the ability in at least some cases to force that flag. I think that's it. If there's no ability to output from the STB in 480i without letterboxing, then you must record in 4:3 letterboxed, and it will play back on a 16:9 display in "postage stamp" mode (black bars on all sides). On a 4:3 display that might be acceptable though, since it will be letterboxed either way.

I know this is a new product, but has anybody had any recent experience recording down-rezzed HD from D*s new HR20 DVR to their DVD recorders?
Here is my situation:


My DVD recorder is a Sony RDRGX7. I have set the recording options (rec screen size) on this recorder to 16x9. The documentation that comes with the recorder states that the rec screen size "function works with DVD-R's and DVD-RWs (video mode) when the recording mode is set to HQ, HSP or SP. For all other recording modes, the screen size is fixed at 4:3. For DVD-RWs (VR Mode), the actual picture size is recorded regardlesss of the setting. For instance, if a 16:9 size picutre is received the disc records the picture as 16:9 even if "Rec Streen Size" is set to 4:3. For DVD+Rs, th screen size is fixed at 4:3."

My monitor is an older 4:3 Sony HDTV that displays 1080i and 480p in a 16x9 frame. I have the HR20 set up as follows:

T.V. Type: Widescreen 16:9
T.V. Resolution:
480i checked
480p checked
1080i checked
Native: On
Screen Format: stretch

What settings or adjustments do I have to make (either to the DVD recorder or the HR20) to get HD material (downrezzed to 480i) and inputed into the s-video connection of the RDRGX7 to get a propertly adjusted image? I'm going to do some experimenting this evening - I think the stretch screen format is the issue - and will post my results, but if anyone has struggled with this before, I would like to know...thanks.
To record anything on the DVD recorder, you must be sure that the HR20 is outputting 480i. Other resolutions are incompatible.

I have no personal experience with the HR20. I have 2 HR10-250's but they are completely different designs, so there is no expectation of consistency between the HR10 and the HR20. But here are some observations that you can consider food for thought.

I wonder if you should turn your "Native" setting off? I would guess that the component outputs from the HR20 would vary resolutions based on the channel/program being watched. Are you using the component output of the HR20 to feed the component inputs on the Sony DVD recorder?

The S-video and composite video outputs of the HR20 can only be 480i, so if they display all the time (i.e., regardless of the selected resolution for HD display), they are compatible with DVD recording. But, I have no idea whether you can get a widescreen (anamorphic) output over s-video/composite. If not, you need to use your component video connections to get full widescreen from the HR20 to the DVDR.

We don't know (yet) if the HR20 outputs the widescreen flag that can communicate with downstream devices to control how pictures are displayed. For example, if the widescreen flag is provided, most 4x3 Sony HDTVs will automatically compress the video vertically to show a letterboxed picture, but having all scan lines compressed vertically to maintain maximum vertical resolution. I don't recall for sure if the Sony DVD recorders auto-detect the widescreen flag and preserve it, but I would be surprised if they did not.

If the widescreen flag is not provided, your Sony DVDR allows you to force the picture to be recorded in widescreen mode if you meet the conditions you recapped in your post. I see no reason why, with your equipment, that you could not achieve a properly flagged widescreen recording that would be equivalent to commercial DVDs that are labeled Anamorphic and/or Enhanced for Widescreen TVs.

All DVD players provide the means to select the aspect ratio of the display connected for viewing. A 16x9 TV display option will pass a 16x9 program in a full screen mode that causes it to fill the screen horizontally and vertically, thus recreating the original widescreen program as it should be.

A 4x3 display option set in the DVD player actually offers 2 variations: letterboxed or pan and scan. If 4x3 letterbox is selected, the DVD player will add black bars at the top and bottom of the picture before sending it to the TV, such that the 4x3 TV will display the 16x9 window letterboxed within the 4x3 screen. If 4x3 pan and scan (or full screen) is selected, then the DVD player will crop the left and right edges of the widescreen program such that the remaining picture completely fills the 4x3 screen.

For your scenario, there are two more considerations: whether the Sony DVD recorder sends the widescreen flag along with the video output when set for a 16x9 TV, and whether your Sony TV will react to that flag and compress the picture vertically to display 16x9 full resolution within the 4x3 screen.

Ideally, and quite likely given Sony's handling of widescreen flags, the DVDR will send the flag and the TV will detect it and respond to it as described above. If not, you may have to vary how you set everything up to get what you want to see on your HDTV. You can test this by playing an Anamorphic, Enhanced for Widescreen commercial DVD in the DVDR and watching the behavior of the TV.

Whether or not the ideal situation works as described, I would encourage you to always record your widescreen copies of HDTV programs with the widescreen flag set properly. There are 2 major benefits for doing so: 1) when playing those recorded DVDs on any other DVD player working with a 4x3 TV, they will behave just like commercial widescreen DVDs, and, 2) on your next HDTV that will definitely be 16x9, they will play properly also.

Without setting the flag, but still recording the anamorphic widescreen movie, playback to a 4x3 TV will result in a vertically stretched/horizontally squished picture sometimes referred to as "tall and skinny."

Hopefully, with this information you can experiment with your equipment and answer your questions and report your findings back to us.

Dave:

Thanks for the detailed response to my inquiry. As as far as I know, the Sony RDRGX7 will handle or pass through the widescreen flag. I have learned this from others posting to this thread in the past. The new HR20 DVR outputs constantly from all outputs. I can verify that the svideo (connected to the RDRGX7) is active along with the component output (connected to my monitor). THe RDRGX7 does not have component inputs, only svideo and composite.

I will remove "Native" from the display options on the HR20 this evening. This setting just allows the native signal to be passed to the monitor without conversion. In my prior setup (using an old Sony HD-100), it recorded downrezzed HD from its svideo input and the display on my monitor was fine. I believe it was just a letterboxed display - probably not an anamorphic image, which is what I really want to achieve. I will also try your suggestion and play a commercial DVD in the RDRGX7 and see what the result is. I never do this as I have a separate DVD player (connected via component inputs to the monitor) for that purpose. I'll do some experimenting and let you know what I find out. Thanks again.

Dean.

Dave:

... The RDRGX7 does not have component inputs, only svideo and composite.

I will remove "Native" from the display options on the HR20 this evening. ...
Dean.
No need to change the Native setting since you are not using the component outputs from the HR20. The s-video and composite outputs are always 480i, no matter what the HD outputs happen to be.

Hopefully you can get a non-letterboxed s-video output from the HR20 to your DVD recorder, where you can then force the widescreen flag on to record the widescreen program as anamorphic.

I will await your findings. Good luck.

P.S. I forgot that your Sony recorder model did not have component inputs. Some others do.

Dave...

I played around last evening with the format options on the HR20 and was able to get a letterboxed image - properly proportioned - to display from the svideo input on the RDRGX7. The format option on the HR20 was simply "1080i letterbox." I could not force an anamorphic display after trying various settings.

For my purposes, at least I can now archive HD material from the HR20 to the RDRGX7 and have it record in the correct aspect ratio, albiet non-anamorphic. I suspect this is possible to do, but I never was able to get it to happen with my old Sony HD-100. I will wait to hear from someone with my exact same equipment to tell me how this can be accomplished. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Budget_HT]
I wonder if you should turn your "Native" setting off? I would guess that the component outputs from the HR20 would vary resolutions based on the channel/program being watched. QUOTE]

I found that when watching the H20 and my new 1080P TV that by turning off Native I was able to use the wide zoom feature on the tv to get full 16 X 9 viewing but with native on could only fill about 85% of the screen......so I turned native OFF. I don't know about recording but looking at the DVD recorders, I find that the only recording that will do 16 X 9 format is DVD-RAM :rolleyes:

Dave...

I played around last evening with the format options on the HR20 and was able to get a letterboxed image - properly proportioned - to display from the svideo input on the RDRGX7. The format option on the HR20 was simply "1080i letterbox." I could not force an anamorphic display after trying various settings.

For my purposes, at least I can now archive HD material from the HR20 to the RDRGX7 and have it record in the correct aspect ratio, albiet non-anamorphic. I suspect this is possible to do, but I never was able to get it to happen with my old Sony HD-100. I will wait to hear from someone with my exact same equipment to tell me how this can be accomplished. Thanks.

P.88 of the HR20 manual states:
"Stretch
In the Stretch setting, instead of adding bars to the top and bottom, the 16:9 program image is stretched vertically until it’s tall enough to fill the screen. Your entire screen will be full, but the program images are stretched to compensate. "

This should work on 480i/stretch over s-video. There is a picture on P.89 that shows the correct stretched image.

If this doesn't work, this is a bug for the HR20.

jdg

In the Stretch setting, instead of adding bars to the top and bottom, the 16:9 program image is stretched vertically until it’s tall enough to fill the screen. Your entire screen will be full, but the program images are stretched to compensate. "

This should work on 480i/stretch over s-video. There is a picture on P.89 that shows the correct stretched image.

If this doesn't work, this is a bug for the HR20.

I can confirm that the 480i stretch mode on the HR20 works just fine. I have cycled through all of the format settings to test them out, both for 480i and 1080i feeds. My issue has to do with whether or not I can record an anamorphic 16x9 image from the HR20 to my Sony DVD recorder. I can certainly record a letterboxed image (an HD image downrezzed to 480i) on the DVD recorder. But getting the recorder to actually record an "enhanced" or anamorphic image is still something I'm working on.....

I can confirm that the 480i stretch mode on the HR20 works just fine. I have cycled through all of the format settings to test them out, both for 480i and 1080i feeds. My issue has to do with whether or not I can record an anamorphic 16x9 image from the HR20 to my Sony DVD recorder. I can certainly record a letterboxed image (an HD image downrezzed to 480i) on the DVD recorder. But getting the recorder to actually record an "enhanced" or anamorphic image is still something I'm working on.....

Gotcha: "Yes," you can. Set the HR20 to 480i/stretch. Manually set the RX7 to 16:9 for the recording format.
* For programs 2 hours or less (SP, etc.), the flag will be set correctly for DVD playback. This will work on all display devices.
* For programs > 2 hours, the flag will not be set for DVD playback. This will be a problem for 4x3 TVs where the anamorphic playback cannot be manually set of the TV. However, for most (all?) 16x9 TVs, there is an option to manually set the "squeeze" for 16x9 source material.

jdg

JohnDG.....

Finally, someone has answered my question. I was getting around to testing things out some more, including manually setting my monitor for anamorphic playback for programs over 2 hours - and I will have plenty of these (football games)! You are a blessing!!

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the help. Do you know if there are any DVD Recorders out there that have a digital tuner or do the manufacturers think that it is a waste since the DVD is in 480i? I would think that the HDD could record in HD and playback in 720 or 1080. If you wanted to burn a DVD, then it would have to down scale to 480. It seems logical the way I have described, what am I missing here? Why no digital tuner in Panny's top machines? How about other makes and models?

This thread is great for someone new to the HDTV/DVD DVR crowd. I have a build on the above statement.

My wife and I are happy receiving HD signals OTA, and get great reception on all HD channels where we are, but we do want to timeshift, and thus recently purchased the Sony RDR-HX715. I was dismayed that it only set up on standard broadcast signals, for which our reception is spotty from channel to channel. I am not expecting to record or replay in HD, but want to get the Sony RDR-HX715 to see the HD signal, without subscribing to satellite or cable (understanding that doing so would provide us the STB to achieve this). Is there a component that I can get to address my situation?

Thanks for any help.

You could use a stand-alone HDTV tuner (STB) for OTA reception and use its audio/video outputs to feed the line inputs of your Sony DVDR. Many folks have done this with very good results. Your HDTV tuner would provide component (if your DVDR has component video input) or S-video output, along with left + right stereo audio connections. Somewhere back in this thread someone knows if your Sony 715 supports the widescreen flag or not.

Folks using this configuration set two timers in parallel--one in the HDTV tuner to select the channel/time to be recorded and one in the DVDR to select the line input/time for recording.

I have made many widescreen recordings using a similar combination and the video results (from an HDTV channel source) are very close to a commercial DVD.

If you use the component video outputs of the HDTV tuner, it has to be set for 480i output, since that is the only resolution accepted by today's DVD recorders.

Good luck.

Thanks for the quick response. I figured that an HD tuner would do the job, but received very confusing answers from the Sony tech support line. Your response begs a few additional questions:

1. Will the DVR still set itself up on standard channels? (This would be OK, as my primary goal here is clear reception, not HD reception).
2. If it sets up on HD, will the TV Guide function still work, and allow me to search programs, etc.
3. Is there a brand of HD tuner that is well regarded/recommended? Does Sony make one?

Thanks again for the help.

Thanks for the quick response. I figured that an HD tuner would do the job, but received very confusing answers from the Sony tech support line. Your response begs a few additional questions:

1. Will the DVR still set itself up on standard channels? (This would be OK, as my primary goal here is clear reception, not HD reception).
2. If it sets up on HD, will the TV Guide function still work, and allow me to search programs, etc.
3. Is there a brand of HD tuner that is well regarded/recommended? Does Sony make one?

Thanks again for the help.
I will answer in general terms because I don't know the details of your Sony 715. But, most DVDRs have similar capabilities.

1. The DVDR can be setup for standard channels. One advantage of this is the PBS channel will most likely provide time reference for the clock in the DVDR. The DVDR has no capability to understand anything about HD channels. You would be using a line input, not the antenna input, to receive the HD programs for recording.

2. Many OTA HDTV channels provide PSIP program guide data as part of their broadcast, which, if available, could be seen on the HD tuner. That is where you could potentially point and click to set a timer to select that channel/time for recording. Then you would manually set the same time, along with the number of the line input (instead of a channel number) on the DVDR. So the tuner selects the time and channel, and the DVDR selects the time and line input (that is connected to the HD tuner). Many folks use this process successfully!

3. OTA-only HD tuners are not as available as they used to be because larger HDTVs now come with built-in HD tuners. Sony has made several stand-alone HD tuner models in the last 6 years. I don't recall if Sony still has a current offering. Samsung still has a current model, available at Circuit City and elsewhere.

Sony made 2 models of hard-drive HD digital video recorders (DVRs) for OTA and/or cable use. They are more expensive than an HD tuner only, but also offer true HD recordings for timeshifting your HD viewing. You can later make a DVD recording if you want by playing back the hard-drive recording into your DVD recorder. Since the hard-drive recorder captures the original digital signal, there is no degradation of video or audio quality.

Question:

I have a Toshiba DVD player with DMI that I am trying to link to a Lite-On DVD recorder and I can't seeem to get it to work, what am I doing wrong! Anyone that can enlighten me with how I shoud cable this properly would be appreciated. Inputs to outputs, etc. I also will be setting up a A/V Surround reciever.

TIA

If you mean HDMI, that won't work for connecting a DVD Player to a DVD Recorder. Only TVs/displays accept HDMI as input (or HDMI switches/splitters).

Did you post in the wrong Topic? Because this one's about not being able to record High Definition video on current DVD Recorders.

If you mean HDMI, that won't work for connecting a DVD Player to a DVD Recorder. Only TVs/displays accept HDMI as input (or HDMI switches/splitters).

Did you post in the wrong Topic? Because this one's about not being able to record High Definition video on current DVD Recorders.


What I meant was I am hooking up a HDMI DVD player to a DVD Recorder for backing up my DVD's, I can't seem to get it cable up correctly for it to work, it should be so simple, yet I can't get it to work? Maybe I need to disable the HDMI for it to work?

And what I meant was: You Are In The Wrong Thread. This one is for new members to read before they ask how to record HD video on a DVD Recorder. Since your question has nothing to do with that, it's what we call Off Topic, and therefore not appropriate in this thread.

Your question would be appropriate for a new thread however. I've sure you'd get plenty of answers if you were to post it as such.

And what I meant was: You Are In The Wrong Thread. This one is for new members to read before they ask how to record HD video on a DVD Recorder. Since your question has nothing to do with that, it's what we call Off Topic, and therefore not appropriate in this thread.

Your question would be appropriate for a new thread however. I've sure you'd get plenty of answers if you were to post it as such.


Uh oh, the infamous wrong thread, OMG..

What I meant was I am hooking up a HDMI DVD player to a DVD Recorder for backing up my DVD's, I can't seem to get it cable up correctly for it to work, it should be so simple, yet I can't get it to work? Maybe I need to disable the HDMI for it to work?
Uh....maybe the government has something to do with it, since basically what you are trying to do...is illegal.

Question:

I hope this is not off-topic. If it is, I apologize.

If I record higher-definition (let's say higher than 720x480) videos on a DVD using my PC, and try to play it back on a standalone DVD player, what resolution will display? I know DVD-Video format will be limited to, say, 720x480. But what about the players that play DivX, or XVid? In what resolution could they play back, assuming the one of those source files?

Are there any standalone DVD players that can playback straight mpeg2 files? If so, what is their maximum playback res.? (Note I'm not talking about what they can record-just what they can play back.)

Shplad

Shplad, the DVD disc must meet the video DVD spec in order for the player to play it. So it won't play the out-of-spec DVD you create on your PC. As for high-rez DiVX discs, I don't know about their playback on a Divx-capable DVD recorder such as the Pioneer 640. No standalone DVD recorder can play straight MPEG 2 files burned to a disc, and nothing would be gained by doing so since it is easy to author those to a video DVD.

Maybe you should research PC home theater products rather than standalone players and recorders.

thanks for the information ^^

How about this one:

I record a HD program on my (Scientific Atlanta 6300) DVR, and then want to transfer the show to my DVD Recorder (yet to be purchased, recommendations welcome). Can I downconvert this program and burn it to DVD at 480i or 480p? Or, can I never transfer any HD program from my DVR to DVD?

Thanks!

I record a HD program on my (Scientific Atlanta 6300) DVR, and then want to transfer the show to my DVD Recorder

You can do this if you can get the SA6300 to produce a downrezzed 480i signal on one of its AV outputs. Most DVD recorders don't have component-video inputs, but most all of them do have S-Video inputs, which can produce very good results. To find out how to set up your SA6300 to produce the right kind of output, you'd best ask in the HDTV Recorders forum here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=42

Look for a thread about the SA6300 first, and use that one if it exists, instead of starting a new thread for your question.

I record a HD program on my (Scientific Atlanta 6300) DVR, and then want to transfer the show to my DVD Recorder (yet to be purchased, recommendations welcome). Can I downconvert this program and burn it to DVD at 480i or 480p? Or, can I never transfer any HD program from my DVR to DVD?Since most such DVR's have to support playback to non-HDTV's, this tends to work the same way, take the 480i output from the DVR and record it just as you would to a VCR. 480p will not work by the way.

Unless you are happy recording "already-letterboxed" video though (and the reduction in quality doing that creates), an important first step will be to get the DVR to send non-letterboxed 480i signals to the S-Video outputs, as has been discussed to great length in this and numerous other threads in this Forum.

The point of this thread is not that you can never commit to DVD any program that was originally broadcast in High Definition. The point is that any such recording will not preserve the High Definition characteristics of the source program. Discounting HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, the maximum resolution supported by DVD standards is 480x720.

Thanks so much for the advice. I'll be happy if I can figure out how to get my STB to output a 480i version of a HD program I have recorded, in order to get it onto DVD in any format. I'll research that - tomorrow!

Thanks again.

Thanks so much for the advice. I'll be happy if I can figure out how to get my STB to output a 480i version of a HD program I have recorded, in order to get it onto DVD in any format. I'll research that - tomorrow!

Thanks again.

Just run an S-Vid, or RCA Video cable, and R&L RCA line audio outs from your cable box to your DVDR. Those have to be in 480i, and your DVDR will record even HD shows, in letterboxed SD.

Since DVDRs cannot record in HD, component ins are of little value. About the only use is that you can set some cable DVRs to output squished 480i over the component outs, so that you can make your own anamorphic DVDs. I have Comcast, and a Motorola box. It will not output a squished picture on the S-Vid, or RCA vid outs, only on component. I think I read somewhere that SA boxed will output a squished 481i picture, without having to use the component outs..

I hope this isn't stupid. :D

I have a Sony 960. What if I hooked up the via the monitor out on the 960 to a line-in on my gx300? I searched this thread and didn't see this. Thanks.

Is a Sony 960 a TV?

If so, most HDTVs I have seen offer composite video (yellow RCA) video monitor outputs, and they only work when the TV is set for 480i, which is what you need to record on a DVD recorder.

On my Mitsubishi HDTV, I have no means of forcing the video resolution to 480i when I am watching a 1080i or 720p source program. Your Sony may behave differently.

Of course you would also need audio monitor outputs from the TV connected to the audio inpits of the DVDR.

While this arrangement may work, it might be inconvenient to have to leave the TV tuned to the channel being recorded and then be sure that no one touches any controls on the TV that might affect the audio or video being displayed.

I am not current on Sony TVs and their monitor outputs. Please respond if the Sony capabilities are different than what I have assumed here (there is that dangerous word!).

Must have HD turners installed. So people like me can record any tv shows i want, I have only OTA programming. So all my shows are HD and free.

The Sony tv is the KD34XBR960. It has monitor out connections consisting of composite vid., L & R audio.

In the manual referring to the monitor out connections it says;

Let's you record the program you are watching to a VCR. When two VCRs are connected, you can use the TV as a monitor for tape-to-tape editing (not available with digital channels or with 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i when the input is set to VIDEO 5, 6, or 7).

It reads like the warnings there are about having 2 recorders going and/or the component inputs neither if which is an issue.

I guess I just need to try it out and see what happens. The TV is really heavy and it and all the other equip. is in an armoire thing and it's quite heavy so I was hoping maybe someone had a definitive answer. :) I love my setup but it sucks when it comes to playing around with connections and whatnot.

wbrett, what do you plan to gain from connecting the TV video out to the recorder? My Sony XBR's video output only works to pass through 480i analog input sources so the only purpose I can imagine is if I want to record using the TV's tuner instead of the recorder's tuner.

I know I can't record HD. I just would like the 16:9 AR and the nice clean signal. I'm in OKC and have Cox analog cable and it looks like hell. I get all my HD via antenna and the TV tuner (QAM?) picks up a few channels.

I know I can't record HD. I just would like the 16:9 AR and the nice clean signal. I'm in OKC and have Cox analog cable and it looks like hell. I get all my HD via antenna and the TV tuner (QAM?) picks up a few channels.
You'll get letterboxed video via the TV's video out if you get any picture at all from a 16:9 source. I've tried various sources with mine and most resulted in no signal pass through.

Thanks. In that case I guess I'll skip that little experiment. I can't believe they've let this stuff get so complicated and messed up.

It looks like you would need to get a standalone HDTV receiver and use it to feed the DVD recorder. You would have to split the incoming antenna or cable TV signal so as to feed both the TV and the HDTV receiver.

A further complication: you mention that you use both OTA and cable (QAM). I guess then that your TV has separate coaxial inputs for OTA and cable. Although some HDTV receivers can handle either OTA and cable, most of them have only one coaxial input so they can't handle both at the same time. The only one that can handle both OTA and cable simultaneously, that I know of right now (because I use one), is the Sony DHG-HDD250 (and 500) HD DVR. There may be a few others.

If you decide to get a new DVD recorder that has a digital tuner when those (hopefully) appear next year, you should look for a unit that has separate OTA and cable inputs.

I do not know how dvd recorders compress the video data, and with that in mind, here is my question:

On some DVD recorders using the specified type of media you can record 16x9 content. Since that's a wider picture than 4:3, how does the dvd recorder compensate for the extra data when recording? For example will a 2-hour SP program recorded at 16:9 have exactly the same quality per pixel as the 4:3 equivalent?

Thanks :-)

There is no extra data. Both 16:9 and 4:3 material is represented by (at most) 720x480 pixels. Widescreen material is just displayed with wider pixels.

I have an SA 8000HD DVR on Videotron cable in Montreal with their latest firmware. I would like to record hi def content to DVD with the "record to VCR" function on the S-video output (Firewire is not enabled). I know it must output 480i with the widescreen flag set to create an anamorphic dvd, and the DVD recorder needs to recognize it when recording.

Despite much searching in the DVR and DVD recorder forums I cannot find any replies from someone who has actually done this. Any feedback from those who could confirm this would be appreciated, and maybe a suggestion on DVD recorders.

Thanks

I have an SA 8000HD DVR on Videotron cable in Montreal with their latest firmware. I would like to record hi def content to DVD with the "record to VCR" function on the S-video output (Firewire is not enabled). I know it must output 480i with the widescreen flag set to create an anamorphic dvd, and the DVD recorder needs to recognize it when recording.

Despite much searching in the DVR and DVD recorder forums I cannot find any replies from someone who has actually done this. Any feedback from those who could confirm this would be appreciated, and maybe a suggestion on DVD recorders.

Thanks
Not sure about the flag, but several people are using a Polaroid 2001G with the SA8300HD in "novel" ways. Check out this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8799770&&#post8799770), which is sort of in the middle of a multi-page discussion of the Polaroid's use with the SA8300HD. Maybe post a question to Nextoo, Larrimore or The Bard, who seem to have experimented with various setups.

There is no extra data. Both 16:9 and 4:3 material is represented by (at most) 720x480 pixels. Widescreen material is just displayed with wider pixels.

Thanks! So basically there is no difference in per-pixel quality assuming the same number of pixels is used?

You got it.

I........... just purchased the Panasonic DMR-EH75............I know it cannot record in high definition but what is the best way to connect it to a high definition(STB)DVR that I presently lease from Cox Cable? I don't want to disturb my present set-up but would like the ability to record programs that have been saved either to the EH75 hard drive or the DVR STB. One of the post that I read here from InVinoVeritas talks about splitting at the wall and sending the input signal to both the EH75 and the DVR. But that won't allow him to record channels above 100. What happens if I connect the DVR STB first from the wall input and send the output to the DMR75 then the output of the DMR75 to the high def TV? Any help will be greatly appreciated..

... what is the best way to connect it to a high definition(STB)DVR that I presently lease from Cox Cable?S-Video plus analog stereo audio (White/Red RCA) from DVR to DVD Recorder. It just has to be 480i.
But that won't allow him to record channels above 100.The 100-channel-limit is due to DVD Recorder not being able to tune such channels (only analog channels can be tuned by a DVD Recorder, just like a VCR, those above 100 on cable tend to be digital channels). So there is no configuration that will get aound that limit.
What happens if I connect the DVR STB first from the wall input and send the output to the DMR75 then the output of the DMR75 to the high def TV?Are you talking about the RF signal path or A/V? You can't send HD A/V signals to a DVD Recorder. For RF it doesn't matter, it will just pass it through.

I........... just purchased the Panasonic DMR-EH75............I know it cannot record in high definition ...

You Can NOW , ... if you purchase the RJTech RJ-1000ATSC HDTV Tuner Box - ATSC / QAM HD Tuner - Output to Component Video or S-VHS. I recorded the widescreen HiDef "Bones" TV show last night (Jan. 31, 2007) on my good ole' Panasonic VCR** Hi-Fi VHS Tape!!!

Key to recording my HD Channel, my RJTech HDTV Tuner box converts ATSC & QAM DTV/HDTV digital broadcast signals to standard definition analog signals!!!

Read about it in my AVS review HERE!!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798636)

**Soon to be replaced by "Samsung DVD-VR330 DVD Recorder/VCR Combo" unit. :D

Phil

You Can NOW , ... if you purchase the RJTech RJ-1000ATSC HDTV Tuner Box - ATSC / QAM HD Tuner - Output to Component Video or S-VHS. I recorded the widescreen HiDef "Bones" TV show last night (Jan. 31, 2007) on my good ole' Panasonic VCR** Hi-Fi VHS Tape!!!


To fill in the blanks for people not familiar:
* existing DVD recorders (with the exception of a couple of expensive models in Japan) can record downconverted HD content from stand-alone HDTV Tuners, HD DVRs and HD cable/satellite boxes, but the recordings made on the DVD will be standard definition (480i), not high definition.

To fill in the blanks for people not familiar:
* existing DVD recorders (with the exception of a couple of expensive models in Japan) can record downconverted HD content from stand-alone HDTV Tuners, HD DVRs and HD cable/satellite boxes, but the recordings made on the DVD will be standard definition (480i), not high definition.
Thanks for clarifying that, ... the RJTech HDTV Tuner Box I mention above converts ATSC & QAM DTV/HDTV digital broadcast signals to standard definition analog signals, or as ncaahoops wrote downconverted into "standard definition (480i), not high definition" signals.

Still looks great though, especially since I'm still recording my TV programs with my ole' Panansonic VCR!

Phil

As far as I know all HD receivers can output downconverted versions of the HD material. We've always been able to record such content. The point of this thread still stands: You cannot record IN HD RESOLUTION on current DVD Recorders. That is still true unless you count the $3000 BluRay recorder that's available only in Japan.

As far as I know all HD receivers can output downconverted versions of the HD material. We've always been able to record such content. The point of this thread still stands: You cannot record IN HD RESOLUTION on current DVD Recorders. That is still true unless you count the $3000 BluRay recorder that's available only in Japan.
Thanks bobkart, didn't know that ... "all HD receivers can output downconverted versions of the HD material." ... since I don't have an HD receiver.

Since I only have the Comcast Limited Basic Cable service (no box just coax cable), I wanted to record my favorite HD channels programs so having a QAM Tuner was important which the RJTech HDTV Tuner box has.

Phil

Thanks for clarifying that, ... the RJTech HDTV Tuner Box I mention above converts ATSC & QAM DTV/HDTV digital broadcast signals to standard definition analog signals, or as ncaahoops wrote downconverted into "standard definition (480i), not high definition" signals.

Still looks great though, especially since I'm still recording my TV programs with my ole' Panansonic VCR!

Phil

I too (among other forum users as well) have noticed the improvements with the downconverted-HD as opposed to the regular channels. With the DVD recorder at LP I noticed visible improvement of HD-down-to-480i compared to SD. Since you mentioned VCR, I didn't think of trying that combination, before, so I'll give it a try to see how it looks with my VCR SP and EP.

Hey guys, I just got the $60 refurb samsung dvd-r135... Either they never fixed it when they refurbed it, or I missed something... I hooked up the svideo OUT from the comcast box to the DVR Svideo in... and recording video works fine.... I also hooked up the RCA red and white wires from the RCA OUT to the the DVR RCA IN... but no sound gets recorded...

if i play a normal dvd on the DVR, sound works fine, but thats obviosuly coming from the RCA OUT to my amp...


what am i missing? I have nothing else hooked up... I did not hook up the coaxial in and out wires, since im grabing the TV feed from the box

thanks!

Hey guys, I just got the $60 refurb samsung dvd-r135... Either they never fixed it when they refurbed it, or I missed something... I hooked up the svideo OUT from the comcast box to the DVR Svideo in... and recording video works fine.... I also hooked up the RCA red and white wires from the RCA OUT to the the DVR RCA IN... but no sound gets recorded...

if i play a normal dvd on the DVR, sound works fine, but thats obviosuly coming from the RCA OUT to my amp...


what am i missing? I have nothing else hooked up... I did not hook up the coaxial in and out wires, since im grabing the TV feed from the box

thanks!
Please ask this in a new thread. Your audio issue is off topic here.

Well, just to give you all options to consider for a DVD recorder, I recently bought an el-cheapo RCA DRC8052N DVD recorder from WalMart ($99) and have my SD Dish satellite receiver's s-video hooked up to this device. This thing is basically advertised as an 'upconverting' DVD player and recorder. What that translates to, in this device, is a DVD player that 'upsamples' DVDs that you play in it , which you can then output in 480p, 720p, or 1080i resolution over the unit's HDMI output.

A really nice side benefit that RCA managed to put into this thing is that you can also use the same 'upsampling' circuitry to process the input video streams for immediate/real time output over HDMI as well, with the selected source's stereo audio input mutiplexed in to boot. As I said, this allows me to connect the s-video from my Dish receiver up for both recording and real-time 'upsampling' to 1080p.

I have tried several other A/V receivers which just translate composite, s-video and component inputs to HDMI at whatever their native resolution is and can turn them into progressive formats up through 720 resolutions - what these units advertise as 'upconversion' but is just 'make progressive and route over HDMI.'

I have been very disappointed with the results coming from any SD TV source run through these receivers when seen on my 42" plasma display. But this little device is magic! It makes my Dish channels look amazing, in many cases better than the non-HD programming that the local HD stations transmit for shows not recorded in HD, and far better than any other devices I have tried, or when I directly hooked the Dish receiver's s-video into my plasma display.

The SD TV 'upsampling' is my main use of the device now, though I bought it to put all the old home VHS movies on DVD. The other benefit, of course, is that I can record anything not copy-protected right from Dish and my Samsung DTB-H260F HDTV tuner's s-video output, which I hooked into one of the recorder's other inputs. This lets me record 16:9 format HD TV, though of course this is only in 480i resolution since that is what all non-HD DVD recorders record in, as we have all learned from this forum. This is a side benefit since the HDTV's tuner's 'main' output for me is HDMI and is hooked into my JVC RX-D412B A/V receiver. This receiver processes the audio channels from the RCA DVD recorder HDMI input and the HDTV tuner HDMI input and switches whichever video source I select to a single HDMI output hooked to my plasma monitor.

This setup also lets me get away with an A/V receiver that only has two HDMI inputs, since one of them is the RCA DVD player which handles DVD playback and the 'upsampled' Dish TV on one HDMI input. Staying with a two-HDMI A/V reciever saves you several hundred $$, which more than covers the cost of the DVD recorder, to say nothing of the absolutely amazing SD 'upsampling' it delivers.

No current DVD recorder, available in the American market at least, will record high definition content IN HIGH DEFINITION RESOLUTION.You can with a DVD recorder connected to a PC.

You can with a DVD recorder connected to a PC.
It makes no difference what you connect to a DVD recorder: they only record 480i video.

I suspect he means to say a DVD Burner connected to a PC. And we know this, I do it myself. People often confuse DVD Recorder (like a VCR) with DVD Burner (just the drive).

To DanielCard, this Forum is about DVD Recorders, not DVD Burners. The point of this thread still stands, DVD Recorders can't record in HD resolution, unless you count BluRay Recorders, which arguably are not DVD Recorders (since they record BluRay discs, not DVDs).

To DanielCard, this Forum is about DVD Recorders, not DVD Burners.The two terms are interchangeable where I'm from. And from other places: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvd_recorder And a DVD recorder in a computer does the same functions as a standalone DVD recorder.

But the two types of devices are not interchangeable for the purposes of these forums, whatever you want to call them.

The two terms are interchangeable where I'm from.

But not here.

The two terms are interchangeable where I'm from. And from other places: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvd_recorder And a DVD recorder in a computer does the same functions as a standalone DVD recorder.

I am not familiar with most of the other sub-forums at AVS, so I do not know where the computer-based dvd burners are discussed.

I am guessing the admins of the forums divided them into multiple forums and sub-forums in order to keep their size manageable and make it easier for people to focus on their specific areas of interest, so this forum is focusing on "stand-alone DVD recorder devices". For example dvd players are divided into HD and SD forums, even though they all play dvds, and the HD further broken down into BluRay/HD-DVD sub-sub-forums. Or something like that :)

Since this thread refers to recording HD from a STB to a DVD-R in 480i SD, is it possible to connect HD DVD or blu-ray (or PS3) to a DVD-R via composite or S-Video? I am looking at the Samsung R-135 for S-video input,, and although I recently learned about the moto 3416 (along with most other STB's) not sending anamorphic to DVD on composite or S-video, hence the advantage to a component in DVD-R (although I heard some STB's still wont send anamorphic even over component, )I can still ZOOM with the tv and barely notice a difference compared to the HDMI feed.

As long as you send 480i to the recorder, it can record it (Copy Protection notwithstanding). It doesn't matter where the 480i signal is coming from.

I don't think the PS3 outputs 480i.

I think it has to or else you could only use it with an HDTV.

If it has Composite Video or S-Video outputs then it can output 480i.

You're right, sorry. :o I've got hi def on the brain lately. :D

"hi def recording to DVD is possible" sure, as possible as driving a car at 500MPH :eek:

the answer will be the same - you run out of 'space' *very* fast!! :p

Amusing thread. I have been making and using HD recordings on red laser DVD media since 2003. You can do so quite easily using a Home Theater PC with an HDTV tuner card. The process is:

1) Record the ATSC program to your hard disk using the software that came with your tuner board, and selecting "Transport Stream" file format (i.e. "filename.ts" files).

2) Burn the DVDs using DATA mode versus VIDEO mode in your HTPC DVD writer, using whatever free software came with the drive, or even the built-in Windows software.

3) Play back the DVDs by inserting them in a DVD-ROM drive and double-clicking on the .ts files to start playback. The recordings are in native HD format complete with subchannels, they are bit-for-bit perfect and indistinguishable from live broadcasts, but can be played only in a HTPC, not any conventional DVD player. As long as your DVD drive is 12X or faster, there will be perfect playback without stutter.

A one hour program will fill two single layer DVDs or one DL disk. A two hour movie will take two DL disks. I use two optical drives in my HTPC (one DVD-ROM and the DVD burner drive)and make a playlist file to play the transport stream files sequentially from two disks without interruption. (There is a 4-second or so pause as playback switches from one disk to the next, and the second drive spins up to speed).

With the recent DVD-R bulk pricing at Fry's, I have been paying 19 cents per disk, and the media cost for recording an hour of HD programming is therefore 38 cents.

Gary

No problem burning HD material to DVD. I do it with HDV camcorder footage, play back on a Toshiba HD DVD player. Up to 24 minutes per disc, about 45 for DL.

Since the DVD Standard (not WMV-HD, HD DVD or BluRay) allows for at most 720x480 resolution, there will never be a recorder/burner/whatever that creates DVD Standard discs containing HD material. That to me is what this thread is trying to say. Not that you can't put HD video on a DVD.

Squonk:

Could you update this Sticky from Nov. 2005?

Lwefring

Squonk seems to have disappeared off the face of the Earth long ago.

Not from the earth, he just got himself banned from the forum. His acid tongue finally got the better of him.

Squonk:

Could you update this Sticky from Nov. 2005?

Lwefring
Ask your questions. There are many experienced folks that monitor this thread.

Ask your questions. There are many experienced folks that monitor this thread.

Noob alert...

New to HDTV, it's great :cool:

OK, I've accepted I don't have much to choose from for an OTA/ATSC DVR, unless I want to try buying something obsolete or get a subscription to something.

So I've decide to get a DVD recorder, accepting that I cannot record HD format.

So is there one out there that will at least record in Dolby 5.1 format from OTA and get something comparable to existing (non-HD) DVD standards?

I thought the HD recording market would be more advanced at this stage in the game.

Thanks

Brian

Noob alert...

So is there one out there that will at least record in Dolby 5.1 format from OTA and get something comparable to existing (non-HD) DVD standards?

I thought the HD recording market would be more advanced at this stage in the game.

Thanks

Brian
The way to get 5.1 audio is with a D-VHS recorder hooked up via Firewire to a set-top box that has a Firewire link. You'll find info about those in the HDTV recorders forum. You'll have a D-VHS tape, not a DVD. If the recorded channel is not 5c copy protected (i.e. it is a netowrk HD channel) you probably can export from box's Firewire link to a PC and use PC software to author it to DVD without changing the audio.

The audio recorded by a DVD recorder comes from analog inputs and those are only 2-channel stereo.

There are devices that let you record the OTA HDTV stream directly to a PC. Oftentimes that also can be re-encoded to the video DVD spec without changing the audio.

The way to get 5.1 audio is with a D-VHS recorder hooked up via Firewire to a set-top box that has a Firewire link. You'll find info about those in the HDTV recorders forum. You'll have a D-VHS tape, not a DVD. If the recorded channel is not 5c copy protected (i.e. it is a netowrk HD channel) you probably can export from box's Firewire link to a PC and use PC software to author it to DVD without changing the audio.

The audio recorded by a DVD recorder comes from analog inputs and those are only 2-channel stereo.

There are devices that let you record the OTA HDTV stream directly to a PC. Oftentimes that also can be re-encoded to the video DVD spec without changing the audio.

The 2-channel stereo analog audio inputs on a DVD recorder can also pass through matrix-encoded Dolby surround, which is provided at the analog stereo outputs of many (all?) HD source devices. While it is definitely NOT Dolby Digital 5.1, some folks believe it is passable for many situations.

I was hoping the new integrated HDTV tuner/DVD recorder devices might retain the DD 5.1 audio in their recordings. I have not heard anyone verify this, so I doubt it is there in the current generation devices.

Perhaps next year's DVD recorder models will add some important features, like proper widescreen recordings (anamorphic with widescreen flags) and DD 5.1 audio from HDTV sources.

The 2-channel stereo analog audio inputs on a DVD recorder can also pass through matrix-encoded Dolby surround, which is provided at the analog stereo outputs of many (all?) HD source devices. While it is definitely NOT Dolby Digital 5.1, some folks believe it is passable for many situations.

I was hoping the new integrated HDTV tuner/DVD recorder devices might retain the DD 5.1 audio in their recordings. I have not heard anyone verify this, so I doubt it is there in the current generation devices.

Perhaps next year's DVD recorder models will add some important features, like proper widescreen recordings (anamorphic with widescreen flags) and DD 5.1 audio from HDTV sources.
Thanks for pointing this out. Indeed, recording the two channels does get information that a receiver can matrix for a enjoyable surround sound experience.

As for anything that will allow transferring 5.1 audio to a standalone DVD recorder, I just don't see the industry ever giving us that. MPEG 2 and AC-3 are old technology and the industry's engineers have moved on to work on what's next such as H.264, Blu-Ray, HD DVD and AAC 5.1 surround.

Thanks for pointing this out. Indeed, recording the two channels does get information that a receiver can matrix for a enjoyable surround sound experience.

As for anything that will allow transferring 5.1 audio to a standalone DVD recorder, I just don't see the industry ever giving us that. MPEG 2 and AC-3 are old technology and the industry's engineers have moved on to work on what's next such as H.264, Blu-Ray, HD DVD and AAC 5.1 surround.
You and others might be interested in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10567488&&#post10567488), which tells us what's in store for next year's LSI Domino 5 chip.

You and others might be interested in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10567488&&#post10567488), which tells us what's in store for next year's LSI Domino 5 chip.
Interesting. What I sense is that chip provides the option to record transport streams or to record SD MPEG 2 with 2-channel AC-3. I believe it still won't create something that meets the video DVD specs with 5.1 surround unless the transport stream already meets those specs (which it typically does not). There also is the question of how much HD transport stream content can fit a single- or dual-layer DVD and what will be able to play back that disc. Hopefully I'm wrong about my skepticism and this actually will bridge the muxing of transport-stream 5.1 audio with encoding of SD MPEG 2 video.

Meanwhile the only clear transport streams available on my Comcast service are a some (but not all) of the HD network channels. I can transfer those streams now to my computer. Everything else is 5c copy protected so only their box can record and replay those channels. The industry does not want us to record archive copies of video or audio at its highest-available quality even if we have hardware that can make it possible.

My attitude is to accept that what we have with recent DVD recorders is pretty darn good and not to sweat that we don't have it all.

My attitude is to accept that what we have with recent DVD recorders is pretty darn good and not to sweat that we don't have it all.

We can only use what is made. It's hard to use anything else :-)

DVHS is the only method of recording 1080i, 5.1 material in all its glory from the most channels. DVHS can record channels with 5C.

You gotta have a an active firewire source. I archived almost 300 DVD recordings before I went pure HD. Now I have hundreds of hours of 1080i, 5.1 material archived. My media closets are a joy to behold :)

OK, so I know these recorders won't record in HD. But will any of these DVD recorders with an HD tuner output an HD signal/stream live from the tuner, so that one can at least use it as an HD tuner?

OK, so I know these recorders won't record in HD. But will any of these DVD recorders with an HD tuner output an HD signal/stream live from the tuner, so that one can at least use it as an HD tuner?Unfortunately, no.

OK, so I know these recorders won't record in HD. But will any of these DVD recorders with an HD tuner output an HD signal/stream live from the tuner, so that one can at least use it as an HD tuner?

I don't know if this is the same thing that you are asking or not, but I have the Philips DVD-R3575H/37 DVD Recorder (with Digital Tuner and a HDD).

I recently made a list of all the Digital Channels it will tune in and noticed something that surprised me. My cable company is Verizon Fios and you can get either a Standard Def Box, or a High Def Box for each TV. We have a High Def Box in our TV Room (one that also records similar to a Tivo), and we have Standard Def Boxes in the bedrooms. In our TV room we can view all the HD channels, but in the bedrooms if we tune in the same channel we only get Audio and no Video (due to the SD boxes).

When I was making the list of channels the Philips 3575 tunes in, I discovered that it actually tuned in all the OTA HD Channels with Audio and Video.

The HD Channels it tunes in are:
CBS HD
NBC HD
ABC HD
FOX HD
WPIX, CW11 HD
WWOR, MY-9 HD
and WNET, PBS HD

Now, I am sure that if I recorded from those channels it will give me a Standard Definition recording from the HD Channel, but the fact that it tunes them in...when even my SD Cable Box doesn't (and the Philips 3575 is certainly not HD)...is a mystery to me.

These devices can receive all formats of digital TV signals that are currently broadcast over the air or delivered via unencrypted cable. This includes both SD and HD resolutions. However, they can output only SD resolution, whether for recording or for direct viewing on a TV screen. They always down-convert HD signals to SD.

Next year we will probably see second-generation devices that can pass HD signals to a TV for viewing (without down-conversion), but they will still be able to record only in SD, because the DVD standard specifies SD resolution. In order to record in HD, we will need a Blu-ray or HD-DVD recorder, and there are no such standalone units yet, at least in the USA.

These devices can receive all formats of digital TV signals that are currently broadcast over the air or delivered via unencrypted cable. This includes both SD and HD resolutions. However, they can output only SD resolution, whether for recording or for direct viewing on a TV screen. They always down-convert HD signals to SD.

jtbell:

Would it be more beneficial for me to record a program on the HD channel (versus the SD channel) for better quality? What I mean is, lets say there is a program I want to record on FOX, will recording it on FOX HD (which will down-convert to SD) still yield better video quality than if I recorded it from the SD FOX channel?

Is HD down-converted to SD better than regular SD?

Just curious.

jtbell:

Would it be more beneficial for me to record a program on the HD channel (versus the SD channel) for better quality? What I mean is, lets say there is a program I want to record on FOX, will recording it on FOX HD (which will down-convert to SD) still yield better video quality than if I recorded it from the SD FOX channel?

Is HD down-converted to SD better than regular SD?

Just curious.
I can't speak for jtbell, but I can relate my personal experience with your question.

I record a lot of HDTV widescreen programs on my DVD recorder. I "down-res" the HD program playback within my HD TiVo box to 480i for input to my Pioneer 520H DVD recorder. I keep the recorded program length to 2 hours or less and I optimize the use of disk space by setting the manual "MN" recording length settings in the DVD recorder to the final length of the recording after deleting commercials. Thus, I squeeze as much quality as I can into the recording that will ultimately result after dubbing in high speed from the hard drive to the DVD media.

I use a Video Filter in series with the S-video connection from my HD TiVo to my DVD recorder to insert the widescreen flag as needed to ensure proper DVD letterboxing when playing back on a 4x3 TV (this is not needed if all DVD playback will be on a 16x9 TV).

The end result for me has video quality that rivals an "enhanced for widescreen" commercial DVD.

Recording a DVD from SD channels is not bad if the channel was received directly as analog, either over-the-air via antenna or a high-quality analog cable channel. But recording a DVD from an SD digital cable channel or SD digital satellite channel is not near as good, since the cable/satellite provider has already encoded and compressed the video to medium-to-low quality to fit it into the limited bandwidth they choose to use. After converting that to analog for s-video input to the DVD recorder and then re-encoding to MPEG-2 within the DVD recorder, the resulting video quality is mediocre in my opinion.

To recap, IMHO, the is a HUGE quality difference between recording in SD on a DVD recorder from an HDTV channel over an SD digital channel. An analog SD channel falls in between quality-wise, dependin a lot on the analog signal quality received.

I get all my TV over the air with an antenna, and can get both analog (always SD) and digital (usually HD, but some SD) versions of all my channels. I always watch or record the digital version because it doesn't have any interference (speckles or distortion) or video noise ("snow").

For a few channels, I have both HD and SD digital versions. For me, the HD version is always somewhat better because all my SD versions are subchannels which doesn't get enough bandwidth for a really good picture. Those SD subchannels always show some "grain" and motion artifacts.

On cable, I suppose there might not be much difference between a good analog signal and its HD counterpart, but this is likely to vary from one company to another and one service area to another. You'll just have to try both and see which gives better results for you.

But recording a DVD from an SD digital cable channel or SD digital satellite channel is not near as good, since the cable/satellite provider has already encoded and compressed the video to medium-to-low quality to fit it into the limited bandwidth they choose to use.

[Edit... you were writing at the same time I was!] In fact, I've seen comments that some broadcast stations send their digital SD subchannel versions mainly to feed the local cable company's digital system! In that case digital cable viewers would see the same artifacts that I do.

Fortunately, few stations around here do this because it takes bandwidth away from the main HD channel and reduces its picture quality.

Sometimes if I switch back and forth between a channel that comes in as SD or HD, the HD channel makes the image look a little larger. I suspect that this is normal.

Well when I start recording from any channel that also has a HD station, I will try the HD and see how it works out.

The other good thing about recording HD down rezzed, is that you will usually get the original aspect ratio, or at least closer to it, when you are recording wide-screen movies. Personally, I will not burn a pan-and-scan version of a film to disc. I'll keep looking for it in the wider aspect ratio, and the HD channels are where I usually find it. I really wish that the guide info listed "WS" when the film will be shown wide screen, especially on the SD channels, where pan-and-scan is the norm. Better yet, why don't they have an all WS movie channel?

What DVD Recorders/Burners will actually take a 16x9 image and then allow you to burn a letterboxed DVD? (or add the 16x9 flag so a DVD player hooked to a 4:3 TV will automatically letterbox it) ??

SV

I use a Video Filter in series with the S-video connection from my HD TiVo to my DVD recorder to insert the widescreen flag as needed to ensure proper DVD letterboxing when playing back on a 4x3 TV (this is not needed if all DVD playback will be on a 16x9 TV).

The end result for me has video quality that rivals an "enhanced for widescreen" commercial DVD.

Recording a DVD from SD channels is not bad if the channel was received directly as analog, either over-the-air via antenna or a high-quality analog cable channel. But recording a DVD from an SD digital cable channel or SD digital satellite channel is not near as good, since the cable/satellite provider has already encoded and compressed the video to medium-to-low quality to fit it into the limited bandwidth they choose to use. After converting that to analog for s-video input to the DVD recorder and then re-encoding to MPEG-2 within the DVD recorder, the resulting video quality is mediocre in my opinion.

To recap, IMHO, the is a HUGE quality difference between recording in SD on a DVD recorder from an HDTV channel over an SD digital channel. An analog SD channel falls in between quality-wise, dependin a lot on the analog signal quality received.

Great post Budget HT, my experience in regards to quality is the same as yours. One question though, what "video filter" do you use to insert the widescreen flag marker and where did you buy it? Thanks.

A couple of old Sony's could be forced into 16x9.
RDR-GX7 & GX300. I have them. I'm not sure about new ones. You must use -R discs tho. [not +R]

You can always burn it then modify the flags via IFO edit .
I learned all of this here, So search old posts for how to's....
Rob

Great post Budget HT, my experience in regards to quality is the same as yours. One question though, what "video filter" do you use to insert the widescreen flag marker and where did you buy it? Thanks.
I use a unit called 'Video Filter' from here:
http://home.cfl.rr.com/filter/
I only use the unit for setting the widescreen flag while recording HDTV widescreen programs down-res'd to 480i in my HD TiVo. The HD TiVo S-video out connects to the Video Filter S-video in, and the Video Filter S-video out connects to my Pioneer DVD recorder (520H) S-video in.

This arrangement saves me the time and trouble of copying to/from my computer to edit the widescreen signal/flag.

I use a unit called 'Video Filter' from here:
http://home.cfl.rr.com/filter/
I only use the unit for setting the widescreen flag while recording HDTV widescreen programs down-res'd to 480i in my HD TiVo. The HD TiVo S-video out connects to the Video Filter S-video in, and the Video Filter S-video out connects to my Pioneer DVD recorder (520H) S-video in.

This arrangement saves me the time and trouble of copying to/from my computer to edit the widescreen signal/flag.
Thanks! I take it you set the flag with one of those little dip switches I see in the picture, yes? Or is there a switch on the front side they don't show?

Thanks! I take it you set the flag with one of those little dip switches I see in the picture, yes? Or is there a switch on the front side they don't show?
Yes, the DIP switches are used to force the widescreen flag on.

There are no controls on the front side.

What brand and model of DVD recorder would you be using?

Philips DVDR985 (NTSC), it has 480i component in as well as "S-vid" in. My cable box DVR has trouble sending out a 480i in squished 16x9 but if I route its firewire out first to my JVC D-VHS deck (5U) it is capable of it, however up until now the 16x9 tv for playback of the DVD had to be set to 16x9 manually, the "auto detect flag mode" showed the squished 4x3 as its default image until I invoke the manual setting. I no longer have any 4x3 TV's but having my recordings work properly on those makes sense too. I think your box will fix this , thanks again.

The Video Filter is supposed to work for component video connections also. I have not tested this because I don't have a DVD recorder that accepts component video input. I believe the green component cable is connected to the composite input/output of the Video Filter.

Good luck!! Let us know how things work out for you.

[QUOTE=jtbell]I get all my TV over the air with an antenna, and can get both analog (always SD) and digital (usually HD, but some SD) versions of all my channels. I always watch or record the digital version because it doesn't have any interference (speckles or distortion) or video noise ("snow").

Jtbell,

How do you record HDTV from OTA? What is your setup? I get all my TV over the air with an antenna. Thanks.

Hi all,

This is an amazing thread, and I have learned alot, and also been confused by alot as well. Hopefully, someone out there will be able to educate me a little more in regards to a DVD recorder. I hace a HR10-250 Tivo fom D*, and I am looking to transfer alot of the content on it I have to DVD, some of it being movies in HD (that I know I can only transfer as 480i, which is fine) that are widescreen, but I would like a recorder that can burn them anamorphically, as we all know how much better an amamorphic DVD looks that non-anamorphic.

I am hoping to not have to get the PC involved wich changing tags and such also.

So, does anybody have a unit, or even better a list of DVD recorders that can do this, when coupled up with the HR10-250? I really need to purge my DVR, but alot of it would be awesome iof I could transfer it anamorphically.

Thank you very much.

It isn't really a matter of the recorder, it is necessary for your Tivo box to output a squeezed picture, most likely over a S-Vid output, so that the DVDR can record it. If your Tivo won't do that, you can't make an anamorphic recording, with the flag set, or not. I'm not familiar with Tivo, so I don't know if you can get such a signal from it. Most cable boxes will only output a squeezed picture over component, or HDMI.

It isn't really a matter of the recorder, it is necessary for your Tivo box to output a squeezed picture, most likely over a S-Vid output, so that the DVDR can record it. If your Tivo won't do that, you can't make an anamorphic recording, with the flag set, or not. I'm not familiar with Tivo, so I don't know if you can get such a signal from it. Most cable boxes will only output a squeezed picture over component, or HDMI.

Thank you.

I am sure that there are many HR10-250 Tivo users here, can anybody add on to this?

You might try HDTV Recorders forum here on AVS. There must be a thread there about the HR10-250, so look for it first.

You might try HDTV Recorders forum here on AVS. There must be a thread there about the HR10-250, so look for it first.

I'll check, but I'll probably chidingly get sent back over here because "You're looking for a DVD recorder, go to that forum" :rolleyes:

Hi all,

This is an amazing thread, and I have learned alot, and also been confused by alot as well. Hopefully, someone out there will be able to educate me a little more in regards to a DVD recorder. I hace a HR10-250 Tivo fom D*, and I am looking to transfer alot of the content on it I have to DVD, some of it being movies in HD (that I know I can only transfer as 480i, which is fine) that are widescreen, but I would like a recorder that can burn them anamorphically, as we all know how much better an amamorphic DVD looks that non-anamorphic.

I am hoping to not have to get the PC involved wich changing tags and such also.

So, does anybody have a unit, or even better a list of DVD recorders that can do this, when coupled up with the HR10-250? I really need to purge my DVR, but alot of it would be awesome iof I could transfer it anamorphically.

Thank you very much.
Your HD TiVo definitely can provide anamorphic video on the S-video output. I do it with mine a lot. Simply leave it set for viewing on a 16x9 TV (which for me means no changes in aspect ratio setting between recording from and viewing programs on my HD TiVo).

I start with widescreen HDTV recordings on my HD TiVo (HR10-250). I copy them to my Pioneer 520H DVD recorder internal hard disk drive (HDD).

I set the recording quality/speed to optimize the resulting (commercials edited out) to fit on a DVD-R at the highest possible bit rate. This enables high-speed copying from the HDD to DVD-R's.

I have used two methods to manage/set the "widescreen flag" to ensure that widescreen recordings play properly on 4x3 TV's (they always play correctly on 16x9 TV's with or without the widescreen flag).

My first method was to record the anamorphic video on the DVD HDD (from the HD TiVo), copy to a DVD-RW or -R, place that DVD in my Mac computer, copy the contents to a file, use Toast 7 to add the widescreen flag, then burn a new "master" DVD-R on the computer. To make more copies, I can either burn more on the computer or use the disc copy function on the 520H (copy from DVD-R to HDD, then make multiple high-speed copies on more DVD-R's).

More recently, I have used a Video Filter device in the S-video path between the HD TiVo and the DVD Recorder.
http://home.cfl.rr.com/filter/
This device can force the widescreen flag to "on" while recording from the HD TiVo to the DVD recorder, eliminating the need for copying and editing on the computer.

Some DVD recorders have the ability to force the widescreen flag on during recording, with certain imposed limitations. Others, like my Pioneer 520H (and every other Pioneer DVD recorder AFAIK), can recognize and retain the widescreen flag and record it, but cannot force it onto a recording if not present on the incoming video signal.

I hope this helps. I have repeated this info many times in many threads, but it is not easy to find on a search.

Ask any questions needed for clarification.

Your HD TiVo definitely can provide anamorphic video on the S-video output.

That's the best reason I've heard for having Tivo!

I really don't understand the worry about the WS flag. If you have a 16x9 TV, you can switch it manually, but probably wouldn't need to. If you have a 4x3 TV, you can set the DVD player to output it the way you want.

Thanks for the response Dave and others. So to clarify, my Tivo willl output anamorphic, correct? The reason I ask is, I have my TV set up to accept 16x9 content via DVD by default, and I have occasionally played DVD's that were not anamrphic, and while it is easy enough to just get into my Mits (TV) menu and expand it to look right, it just isn't the same quality as one that was mastered anamorphically. I will almost exclusively be watching the widescreen content I have on the Tivo that I want to burn on the widescreen TV as well.

So, if that is correct, I should be able to change my Tivo's output to 4x3 for standard full frame content that I have on the Tivo, correct? (Like reruns of the Wonder years, or whatever) then I can watch them on any TV in the house, and if I want to watch them on the widescreen, I can either just put up with the stretching, or adjust it via the TV menu, just as I would have to with any 4x3 source DVD I would play, right?

Am I missing anything?

Thanks again.

Oh, you mentioned some recorders that would "force the widescreen flag on during recording, with certain imposed limitations". Do you know which ones those are by any chance?

Thanks again.

Thanks for the response Dave and others. So to clarify, my Tivo willl output anamorphic, correct? The reason I ask is, I have my TV set up to accept 16x9 content via DVD by default, and I have occasionally played DVD's that were not anamrphic, and while it is easy enough to just get into my Mits (TV) menu and expand it to look right, it just isn't the same quality as one that was mastered anamorphically. I will almost exclusively be watching the widescreen content I have on the Tivo that I want to burn on the widescreen TV as well.

So, if that is correct, I should be able to change my Tivo's output to 4x3 for standard full frame content that I have on the Tivo, correct? (Like reruns of the Wonder years, or whatever) then I can watch them on any TV in the house, and if I want to watch them on the widescreen, I can either just put up with the stretching, or adjust it via the TV menu, just as I would have to with any 4x3 source DVD I would play, right?

Am I missing anything?

Thanks again.
Bruce, your 4x3 scenario sounds correct to me.

Oh, you mentioned some recorders that would "force the widescreen flag on during recording, with certain imposed limitations". Do you know which ones those are by any chance?

Thanks again.
Many Sony DVD recorders support manual control of the widescreen flag, but only for recordings with lengths (i.e., quality/bit rate settings) of 2 hours or less. Since I have no personal experience with the Sony DVD recorders, hopefully a Sony owner will clarify this.

I have read that some Toshiba models can force the widescreen flag. I don't know the details.

I have also read that some Panasonic models can control the widescreen flag when recording to DVD-RAM (only).

As I said earlier, the widescreen flag is used to direct a DVD Player on how to display an anamorphic widescreen recording during playback on a 4x3 TV.

That's the best reason I've heard for having Tivo!

I really don't understand the worry about the WS flag. If you have a 16x9 TV, you can switch it manually, but probably wouldn't need to. If you have a 4x3 TV, you can set the DVD player to output it the way you want.
I agree on the 16x9 TV.

But, on the 4x3 TV, playback of an anamorphic DVD that lacks the widescreen flag will result in a full-screen picture that is horizontally squished, causing people to look tall and skinny. There is no way that I know of to correct this at playback time if the flag is not present, i.e., there is no way to force letterbox or pan and scan playback if the widescreen flag is not detected by the DVD player.

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I was surfing around the internet today, trying to figure out what I'm going to buy and I came across some that combine a DVD recorder with a VCR included that also upconvert to 1080i via HDMI. The two that I've seen (although I'm sure there are more) are the Toshiba DVR650 and the LG DR787T. Not positive but I think I may have read somewhere in my research that one or both of these may be able to push the widescreen flag. At first, these looked ideal, but as I read on in a few threads on this forum, I saw a few references to inferior workmanship/reliability.

My question is, does anybody have any thoughts on these two units, or do you have a different unit that does about the same thing that has proved to be reliable?

Thanks again,
Bruce