No, i haven't run any video games......One problem at a time.... :rolleyes:
Might not be configured right for the older video games?

Also, have not hooked it up to my a/v reciever, it's an older Kenwood.

What r u running it to your a/v for?

I have a Denon 2801 (4-5 years old). I don't really use it for video switching, but it has On Screen Setup for all the audio features (speaker configuration, etc.). When I plug it in to the S-video or Composite inputs, the screen shows video for split second, then flickers off, then shows it again, then off, etc. It constantly flickers every 1/2 second or so making in impossible to see.

Many others have experienced this with recievers and video games (not just older ones). It's obviously a problem with the TV that I hope Dell can address soon. Here's the thread on Dell's forums if you're interested.

http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dce_W1700LCD&message.id=5992

I've left my settings to avoid that "posterization" recently at:

brightness: 58
contrast: 42 or 44

color temp: Natural
Sharpness: 6

everything else default.

It's a bit brighter, but I find the details in dark scenes aren't lost and the "posterization" seems to not be there.

(I'm beyond the first 100+ hours so brightness isn't a problem)

I tried something like this (not sure if it was exactly 58/42) and it seemed to aggravate the posterization, though it did alleviate the "black crush" somewhat. That's in part why I think there may be a more subtle adjustment required. I'll probably futz with it a bit more before pulling the trigger on a calibrator, though. Your success makes me want to try it again.

Agreed.............................^^^^^^^

None of these adjustments from anyone seem to be working, including myself.....
I could not find a single happy medium.

Last chance: i believe is a Pro's callibration in the Service Menu or at least someone that knows what they are doing....

I think it's a huge issue for this set and others too. I've seen other threads about this on different brands as well. Saw no solution thier either....

So, is this a trait inherited on all plasmas?

Should we add the cost of: avia, dve, better cables and
a Pro calibration, to the cost of the set?

Dells is not going to help, they blame it on signal sources...........

Comcast tried on thier end, numerous procedures to no Evail....................

.....................I'm at a Standstill..........................

So, is this a trait inherited on all plasmas?

I guess THAT is the real question. I'm not expecting perfection, and I understand that as a technology plasma (currently) has its limits WRT black reproduction. But the set can definitely product black blacks (at least black enough for me), and based on DVE it seems to ramp pretty nicely from black to white. And while I do see some posterization in lighter regions (e.g., blue sky, snow), I have to really look for it from a distance of about 2 feet.

Should we add the cost of: avia, dve, better cables and a Pro calibration, to the cost of the set?

Seems like maybe at least one of us needs to bite the bullet on the latter! I'm definitely game, but will be peeved in the extreme if it turns out to be a waste of money and I send the set back. It might be interesting to post your question, above, in a new non-Dell thread. If the consensus is "yes, all plasmas have this problem", then a calibrator will be a waste of money.

Dells is not going to help, they blame it on signal sources...........

I "chatted" with two different people in Dell's TV support group yesterday. If this was a humor forum, I'd post the chat log for others to enjoy.

Two feet!!!!!!!

If i can get it down to that, i'd be happy for sure....................

Still waiting on the dve disc to come in..................

I'd bite the bullet on the pro set-up, but right now........
I just don't have the extra Jing.......

Greetings

I will be joining you guys at this party in perhaps 10 days. I ordered the unit and it will be here soon after I return from the CES ... next week. It will be properly "ISF" calibrated shortly after that.

I should note that posterization is not an effect restricted to the Dell, pretty much all plasma sets that I have worked on and seen have it to some degree. LCD, LCOS, DLP technologies all have it as well. A product of digital displays.

My Toshiba 44" DLP RPTV has it, my Insignia 42" HD plasma has it, my Panasonic 42" ED plasma has it, and the list goes on.

It's severity is source dependant though ... digital vs. analog.

Regards

Hope this is promising.................

Hurry back, Michael!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did not get the extended warranty. However, after the purchase you can purchase the extended warranty through Dell up to 21 days after the purchase date. I think i am going to go with an additional 2 year warranty but was also looking at a warranty from Repair Master.

Does anyone here know if the Repair Master warranties cover the Dell displays?


FYI

Good news! I just called warrantech, the company who does the repair master warranties, and their warranties do cover the Dell 50" plasma. Here is Austin there are two companies that would do the service. I think i will purchasing one of these warranties from TVA later this week.

FYI
Good news! I just called warrantech, the company who does the repair master warranties, and their warranties do cover the Dell 50" plasma. Here is Austin there are two companies that would do the service. I think i will purchasing one of these warranties from TVA later this week.

I was going to get a Repair Master warrantee also, but then I did alot of researching on the web and read lots of bad info about them. Someone even posted their financial info and made a comment indicating they probably wouldn't be around much longer :-(

Warrantech Financials (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=wtec.ob)

Rich

I saw they'd be around quite awhile.
22% growth last year.
they are seeking, more line of credit though...

I'll wait n see, will go with them or Mack.
But you can grab a 4 yr. Repairmaster plan, for over 1/2 the cost of manf. ext. warranties.

But you can grab a 4 yr. Repairmaster plan, for over 1/2 the cost of manf. ext. warranties.

Although I'm pessimistic about the company, it may be worth getting one anyway, especially if it's cheap enough. Where exactly do you go to purchase one?

I'm on the fence for a 42" and am torn between the panny th-42px50u and the new Dell W4201C. Does anyone know if the 42" has the same problems as the 50" that you are all discussing here. I know the panny is the favorite of this board but I like the looks of the Dell better. The Dell is avaialble now verses 4 wks on the Panny and is over a c note less expensive. The new 42" Dell has only been out about 2 to 4 weeks now so don't know if anyone has one yet. What are your recomendations?
Thanks, Brian

Although I'm pessimistic about the company, it may be worth getting one anyway, especially if it's cheap enough. Where exactly do you go to purchase one?


TV Authority which is a sponsor here sells them.

I'm on the fence for a 42" and am torn between the panny th-42px50u and the new Dell W4201C. Does anyone know if the 42" has the same problems as the 50" that you are all discussing here. I know the panny is the favorite of this board but I like the looks of the Dell better. The Dell is avaialble now verses 4 wks on the Panny and is over a c note less expensive. The new 42" Dell has only been out about 2 to 4 weeks now so don't know if anyone has one yet. What are your recomendations?
Thanks, Brian


I think the consensus is that there will be some posterization on any plasma set that you get.

I think the consensus is that there will be some posterization on any plasma set that you get.

I agree,

Actually went to FS this afternoon and had a good look at the panny 500u and although it was hard to see, because the clips they play in stores from their Hard drive are made especially to make the tv look at good as possible (including changing scene very quickly which makes it hard to pick up any issues) there was noticeable posterization in certain scenes. EVEN a PANNY!! ;) I did buy a Sony DVD HD Player (DVP-NS70H) just to compare with my existing DVD player and the outcome was that Stars Wars II looked much better using this Sony and I would have to say that most of the Posterization found previously was null or hard to detect.

On the warranty............

i just use a search engine, to find the best price.......

Anyone else having lip synch problems with their Dell 5001?

TV was hooked up via HDMI to a Samsung HD850 and I had the audio sent via optical cable to an Onkyo HTS780 home theatre system (receiver model HT-R530). During playback lip movement does not match up with the sound. It’s not a huge discrepancy but when you know what to look for it becomes distracting. I tried a different DVD player, Sony DVPN S70H, and I still got the same problem. I tried using the speakers that came with the TV instead and still no change (so I don’t think the receiver is defective). I tried an analog connection with no change. I tried using the Sony’s lip synch adjustment function and still the same.

It’s not a huge discrepancy I’m seeing but for some scenes it gets very annoying, quiet close ups are especially distracting.

Since I haven’t seen any other posts on this problem regarding the dell (and because it was messed up even when I used an analog connection with the supplied speakers) I’m thinking either 1. My panel is simply defective or 2. I’m a newb, I’m confused :-) and it’s just that from what I understand most flat panel displays have this type of problem? And maybe most people here are simply using a better quality receiver that can fix the issue this way? Anyone else experiencing similar problems?

I am not having any audio timing problems. I also am using a S70H. Maybe it's your reciever. Have you tried isolating that by taking it out of the system and running the audio out through the W5001C amplifiers?

General question, when I go into the white bars in the service menu I notice an abrupt drop off in that last black bar on the left. Not a smooth transition like all the other bars. Also the last three white bars are very similar. It seems to me a smoother transition into black at the expense of the top two white bars would be a good trade off. This is after I had done a calibration on the HDMI 2 with avia but I really don't know what port this screen applies to since it certainly doesn't seem to reflect how I had it adjusted (I think).

Is everybody elses this way?

Two feet!!!!!!!

I'd bite the bullet on the pro set-up, but right now........
I just don't have the extra Jing.......

If you can get HD adjusted to your liking without a pro-setup - then I think it would be a waste of money because SD is all over the board. I can tweak and minimize the posterization on one source, change channels or CD's and it becomes a whole different set of setting to minimize with the new material.

Of course if you do it, and I am wrong, please don't hesitate to tell me. :)

If you can get HD adjusted to your liking without a pro-setup - then I think it would be a waste of money because SD is all over the board. I can tweak and minimize the posterization on one source, change channels or CD's and it becomes a whole different set of setting to minimize with the new material.

Of course if you do it, and I am wrong, please don't hesitate to tell me. :)

I agree with all that davivers.........

I think, i'm having some issues with the greenish tint on the blacks. and elsewhere. Picture is just not right.......
Not sure if thats the same thing we have been discussing or not.

But i can't get that to go away at all, unless i drop brightness way down
and in turn, that wipes out alot of detail..............................

I'm getting the dve soon, don't think that will be much help though.......

Just what i need,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,more stress.........

1st payments due,,,,,,,,not sure thier getting it.....................

Anyone else having lip synch problems with their Dell 5001?

With the exception below, I am not having any audio sync problems at all. I have a SA8300HD STB connected via component and a Denon 2910 connected via HDMI. The digital audio outputs from both sources are also connected to my Marantz AV receiver, when I want to listen in 5.1. Either way (using the Dell's speakers or my 5.1 system) the sound is right on. Except ...

I have noticed, twice now, after fast forwarding or rewinding a program recorded on the DVR that the audio will sometimes get hosed up. I definitely noticed some delay, and also some breakup of the left channel. Hitting the stop button, then the play button, seemed to sync it all up again. I seem to recall reading somewhere that this sometimes happens, the solution is to just stop/start, and it worked for me.

For those who have purchased this, what was the lag time from the original order date to the shipped date? I placed my order last Thursday so I'm almost at one week in and the thing is stuck at "In Production" with none of the tasks checked off.

For those who have purchased this, what was the lag time from the original order date to the shipped date? I placed my order last Thursday so I'm almost at one week in and the thing is stuck at "In Production" with none of the tasks checked off.
My original lead time was about 4 weeks and I received it in less than 2 weeks. I was able to reschedule the install within 48 hours of receiving the unit. You should get a notification when the unit is on its way. The In-Production status can be very deceiving.

For those who have purchased this, what was the lag time from the original order date to the shipped date? I placed my order last Thursday so I'm almost at one week in and the thing is stuck at "In Production" with none of the tasks checked off.
I ordered mine through Costco.com. It arrived 10 days later.

For those who have purchased this, what was the lag time from the original order date to the shipped date? I placed my order last Thursday so I'm almost at one week in and the thing is stuck at "In Production" with none of the tasks checked off.

I got mine in a little over a week. Ordered on a Wednesday and it was delivered Friday the next week. I believe I got the shipped date Thursday or Friday. The local shipper will be Fasttrack or something like that. I also live in Pearland. There was only one delivery person so I helped him carry it in my house.

That's good to hear as my wife REALLY wants it to get here in time for the 24 season premiere(s)!

P.S.

Small world :) . Isn't it amazing how Pearland has blown up over the last 5 years? I'm 20 and have lived here my whole life and I can remember driving to the Dome or Compaq Center on 518 out to 288 and seeing nothing but open land and trees.

That's good to hear as my wife REALLY wants it to get here in time for the 24 season premiere(s)!

P.S.

Small world :) . Isn't it amazing how Pearland has blown up over the last 5 years? I'm 20 and have lived here my whole life and I can remember driving to the Dome or Compaq Center on 518 out to 288 and seeing nothing but open land and trees.

I've only been here for 4 years years and it has grown quite a bit since then.

I am not having any audio timing problems. I also am using a S70H. Maybe it's your reciever. Have you tried isolating that by taking it out of the system and running the audio out through the W5001C amplifiers?
I tried taking the receiver out of the mix and had the supplied speakers hooked up but the problem still seems to be there. Also tried different DVD players and various connections and no effect.


Either way (using the Dell's speakers or my 5.1 system) the sound is right on
Hmmm if this is the case then I would guess that the problem is probably the panel...I guess I'm gonna have to phone Dell...sigh...this should be fun LOL

I had the same problems and then I hooked my TV up to an OTA antenna to take everything out of the mix and the lip sync problem was gone. When using an OTA antenna, I have no lip synch issues, so the problem isn't with the panel, its with my cable box or provider (Comcast). I would bet your problem is the same. This problem is so obvious, that if it really were the panel, I doubt it would have passed QA.

Rich

I'm watching Wedding Crashers right now via my Samsung HD850/HDMI and have no lip sync problems.

Jterry: Are you using the Dell supplied speakers or a different speaker setup? If you are using other speakers have you tried the Dell supplied speakers with the 850 hooked up via HDMI?

Richlux: The thing is I only have the TV hooked to a DVD player right now because I'm still waiting on my cable. So it seems to me that it must be the panel since I've tried two DVD players and still the sound is messed. It's not like watching old kung fu movies or anything LOL but there is definitely a small sync problem.

For everyone who's not having issues with this. Is the sound and picture perfectly matched up? I don't know if I'm just being overly picky since I've read that a lot of flat panels have this type of problem. It seems though from what people are saying that no one is seeing any differential at all...I have had other people listen and they were able to see a problem too.

There doesn't seem like theres much else I can do on my end at this point other than buying a better receiver which might fix the problem. But if I did that it's only working around a problem in the panel not correcting it. I'll call Dell tomorrow and see what they have to say I guess...I really wanted to avoid this at all cost since I've had to call them before for computer issues and they are very often extremely useless...sigh...I guess I'll have to clear my entire afternoon tomorrow LOL...

I agree with all that davivers.........

I think, i'm having some issues with the greenish tint on the blacks. and elsewhere. Picture is just not right.......
..

My blacks (bars included) have a greenish tint when using my HR10-250 DTV receiver/dvr. My DVD player puts a little light in the blacks but not as much as my sat reciever. It's the source device however because earlier I posted results of a test that showed w50001c is capable of producing blacks very very close to the equal of the screens power down state which is, of course, as black as you can get. I was using the onboard ATSC tuner for the test. Adjusting your set to compensate for extra light being added by the source device may be difficult. Test your blacks with the OTA HD tuner and let us know how they compare.

Jterry: Are you using the Dell supplied speakers or a different speaker setup? If you are using other speakers have you tried the Dell supplied speakers with the 850 hooked up via HDMI?

Richlux: The thing is I only have the TV hooked to a DVD player right now because I'm still waiting on my cable. So it seems to me that it must be the panel since I've tried two DVD players and still the sound is messed. It's not like watching old kung fu movies or anything LOL but there is definitely a small sync problem.

For everyone who's not having issues with this. Is the sound and picture perfectly matched up? I don't know if I'm just being overly picky since I've read that a lot of flat panels have this type of problem. It seems though from what people are saying that no one is seeing any differential at all...I have had other people listen and they were able to see a problem too.

There doesn't seem like theres much else I can do on my end at this point other than buying a better receiver which might fix the problem. But if I did that it's only working around a problem in the panel not correcting it. I'll call Dell tomorrow and see what they have to say I guess...I really wanted to avoid this at all cost since I've had to call them before for computer issues and they are very often extremely useless...sigh...I guess I'll have to clear my entire afternoon tomorrow LOL...

I'm not using the Dell speakers they are still in the box. I am running the optical from the DVD to my Yamaha 5850 receiver to SLX speakers. Video may be ever so slightly out of sync but it is very hard to tell for me.

To be honest, I haven't done exhaustive testing, but I've noticed that sometimes there are lip synch issues and sometimes there aren't. From that I conclude that it's the source since if it were the panel, it would be off all the time. I've also noticed lip sync issues at my friends houses (on other TV's with other sources), so I've come to accept the fact that digital TV (which I think sends video and audio signals separately) isn't 100% perfected yet, but I don't blame the panel...

Well, the unit shipped today so hopefully I'll get it in the early part of next week! Once I do, I'll defiantely throw some thoughts up here.

Can anyone comment on why there is such a huge discrepancy between the pricing of the Panasonics in Canada and the USA? I am seriously considering buying the Dell W5001C, as the cost of a comparable Panasonic up here is considerably higher. In the States they seem to be very close in price. Given that the exchange rate is not that big a factor any longer I fail to see why the Panny's are so expensive in Canada. Money is not everything in a big decision like this, but when the gap is a couple of grand it certainly has to be weighed and needs an explanation IMO.

Greetings

I will be joining you guys at this party in perhaps 10 days. I ordered the unit and it will be here soon after I return from the CES ... next week. It will be properly "ISF" calibrated shortly after that.

I should note that posterization is not an effect restricted to the Dell, pretty much all plasma sets that I have worked on and seen have it to some degree. LCD, LCOS, DLP technologies all have it as well. A product of digital displays.

My Toshiba 44" DLP RPTV has it, my Insignia 42" HD plasma has it, my Panasonic 42" ED plasma has it, and the list goes on.

It's severity is source dependant though ... digital vs. analog.

Regards

I think Michael is going to be a big help,, for those of us trying to get it right...

I think most of us agree posterization is source related.......

But even at that: i can watch the news on sd content and it's a very nice pic,
not hd quality of course but very nice. As soon as they go to a different scene
(darker of course) THIER it is...........The Damn P word......

Being that this is a new model: we just don't have any specs to go by, as far as settings in the sevice menu. Has to be something in thier to make it better.

I'm starting to lean towards the gamma....Not sure of course....

Hopefully, when Michael gets the set & calibrates it.
He can list what he thinks are the optimum settings...............

Hurry back, Michael,,,,,,,,,,Please!!!!

Is it me or the list of units talked about by Michael that have this problem (My Toshiba 44" DLP RPTV has it, my Insignia 42" HD plasma has it, my Panasonic 42" ED plasma) are not considered very high PQ units? I think I will run out to the store tomorrow with my DVD movie in hand and ask the sales person to play it on another plasma TV (Panny) and let my eyes make the decision to keep the Dell or not! :confused:


I think Michael is going to be a big help,, for those of us trying to get it right...

I think most of us agree posterization is source related.......

But even at that: i can watch the news on sd content and it's a very nice pic,
not hd quality of course but very nice. As soon as they go to a different scene
(darker of course) THIER it is...........The Damn P word......

Being that this is a new model: we just don't have any specs to go by, as far as settings in the sevice menu. Has to be something in thier to make it better.

I'm starting to lean towards the gamma....Not sure of course....

Hopefully, when Michael gets the set & calibrates it.
He can list what he thinks are the optimum settings...............

Hurry back, Michael,,,,,,,,,,Please!!!!

I'm sure alot of other brands have the same problem, too some extent.
i've seen other threads about it, on other brands.

Thiers alot requests for service menu codes as well, so we are not alone in wanting to get a better picture.............

I'm currently torn between this plasma and the Vizio P50HD. Inputs and costs are big concerns of mine, and this TV and the Vizio both have a wide selection of them.

I saw the Maxent plasma at best buy, but it didn't really impress me. I would imagine that they don't try to play it up as a decent panel, considering the placement of it (on the floor, where everything else was every level). On the other hand the Dell plasma, which I saw within minutes of the maxent, was very impressive. I thought it was as good as, if not better, than most of the "higher end" plasmas at best buy.

I cannot view the Vizio plasma, there are none within a reasonable distance to me. Has anyone seen the Dell and the Vizio plasma? Is the Vizio of similar picture quality or is it just going to be a big disappointment?

Terrain,

Where are you from exactly? I am in Montreal Canada and I am facing the same thing. I really like the Dell look and canadian price which in fact keeps changing depending of weeks on sale boxing week was under 3,7000 and now it is under 4K CAN good for a 50 inch plasma and very nice look; however, since Christams I have been following this thread and I have been more and more moving toward the Panasonic. Of course you can get this at under 3.5K in US no problem and in Canad it is 5.5K CAN thsi is not justifyable and I am really aiming for a Manasonic after hearing more and more abotu this thread. Can we see a groupe buy or something similar for a nice 50 inch Panny let me know

Cafara,

I know that Dell is only sold on-line or at Costco. thogh Costcc.ca Canada does not offer the 50 inch version yet. Are you sure you saw a Dell plasme at BestBuy? I do no see on their US or Cnadian website nor at their retail stores. I am dying to see the Dell on action with Standard TV signals to see this postirazation issue that everyone is complainning have I not heard anything about this on this thread I would have been a Dell 50 inch owner today.

I'm currently torn between this plasma and the Vizio P50HD. Inputs and costs are big concerns of mine, and this TV and the Vizio both have a wide selection of them.

I saw the Maxent plasma at best buy, but it didn't really impress me. I would imagine that they don't try to play it up as a decent panel, considering the placement of it (on the floor, where everything else was every level). On the other hand the Dell plasma, which I saw within minutes of the maxent, was very impressive. I thought it was as good as, if not better, than most of the "higher end" plasmas at best buy.

I cannot view the Vizio plasma, there are none within a reasonable distance to me. Has anyone seen the Dell and the Vizio plasma? Is the Vizio of similar picture quality or is it just going to be a big disappointment?
Cafara:
I can tell you that I spent over 4 months looking at all this info and reviewing and viewing all these different Plasma's along with DLP technology...I have had my "fitty" up and running on a OTA transmission and I'm telling you that I coudn't be happier. the picture is absolutly amazing on certain HD signals (PBS best) but the disperity has nothing to do with the TV but with the cameras that are used on the production of these shows. You will find that this is the single biggest difference in PQ you will find. Thus, making it very difficult to compare different units from different sources.

On another not from soem fo these other threads...I actually used the 2 speakers that are included as my center channel speakers...yes 2 speakers instead of one. This is integrated with a Bose speaker system and I'm telling you it works really well. I had heard good things about the speakers and tried this out and happy with the results.

For the money, it's hard to beat this Dell "Fitty".

I did see the Dell 50" plasma, but not at best buy. Sorry about the confusion, there is a Dell Kiosk just outside Best Buy near me. They primarily just display all of their TVs.

Keep in mind Dell is not the only one with posterization. It is apparent on all Plasma/LCD TV's and is most likely source related i.e. cable box, satellite box, DVD player.

I looked at both the Maxent and the Vizio before deciding to go with the Dell (sight unseen). I thought the Maxent looked a little cheesy (the stand, in particular), and don't like the speakers on the bottom of the Vizio (makes it look like an RPTV, IMO). The pictures on both looked okay, but until you get a set in your home, hooked up to your source, playing material you are familiar with, it's very difficult to tell.

Terrain,

Where are you from exactly? I am in Montreal Canada and I am facing the same thing. I really like the Dell look and canadian price which in fact keeps changing depending of weeks on sale boxing week was under 3,7000 and now it is under 4K CAN good for a 50 inch plasma and very nice look; however, since Christams I have been following this thread and I have been more and more moving toward the Panasonic. Of course you can get this at under 3.5K in US no problem and in Canad it is 5.5K CAN thsi is not justifyable and I am really aiming for a Manasonic after hearing more and more abotu this thread. Can we see a groupe buy or something similar for a nice 50 inch Panny let me know



I am in the Ottawa area and went into Bleeker's last night. I told the salesman that I was about to take the plunge and that Dell had a great deal on the W5001C ($3699.00 CDN with stand and speakers). He was very honest and said right away that he didn't have any plasmas that could compete in terms of value for the money. The Panasonic 50 was beautiful ($5999), as was the Hitachi 42 ($3999). The unit that most impressed me most aside from those two was a Sony LCos SXRD. It retails at around $5k. Costco has the 42 inch Dell at $3499 - only $200 less than the bigger version. As you say, they don't offer the 50" model at all. After considerable agonising I bought the Dell 50 last night just before that sale ended. It is a great price (given that I can't get the Panny for anything under $5500 up here) and my logic is that the Dell is very well packaged and probably more TV than I will need in the foreseeable future. I am pretty certain that whatever troubles ailed the original Dell 42" have been ironed out. Maybe this thing won't be quite on par with a high end Pan or Pioneer, but I think it will be very good nonetheless.

I honestly have no idea why the Panasonic 50 would be so much more up here. It is very irritating to say the least. I'll put up with any minor "inferiority" of the Dell (if that's what happens) and be happy to spend the $2k difference on something else.

I honestly have no idea why the Panasonic 50 would be so much more up here. It is very irritating to say the least. I'll put up with any minor "inferiority" of the Dell (if that's what happens) and be happy to spend the $2k difference on something else.

I believe Panasonic dropped their prices in the US to get market share and their are other reasons. I remember reading an article about Panasonic dropping their prices on the Plasmas, but then they were having supply issues and they still are to this day. Lead time in the US is over 2 months. I had a friend order one in November and expected delivery is sometime in March. Some retailers in my area won't even sell it because the lead time is so long and they offer comparable other Plasmas like Sony or they try to push the 50U model over the 500U. In my mind the 50U has a lot of flaws and only the unknown would purchase this TV.

I am in the Ottawa area and went into Bleeker's last night. I told the salesman that I was about to take the plunge and that Dell had a great deal on the W5001C ($3699.00 CDN with stand and speakers). He was very honest and said right away that he didn't have any plasmas that could compete in terms of value for the money. The Panasonic 50 was beautiful ($5999), as was the Hitachi 42 ($3999). The unit that most impressed me most aside from those two was a Sony LCos SXRD. It retails at around $5k. Costco has the 42 inch Dell at $3499 - only $200 less than the bigger version. As you say, they don't offer the 50" model at all. After considerable agonising I bought the Dell 50 last night just before that sale ended. It is a great price (given that I can't get the Panny for anything under $5500 up here) and my logic is that the Dell is very well packaged and probably more TV than I will need in the foreseeable future. I am pretty certain that whatever troubles ailed the original Dell 42" have been ironed out. Maybe this thing won't be quite on par with a high end Pan or Pioneer, but I think it will be very good nonetheless.

I honestly have no idea why the Panasonic 50 would be so much more up here. It is very irritating to say the least. I'll put up with any minor "inferiority" of the Dell (if that's what happens) and be happy to spend the $2k difference on something else.

I'm in Ottawa myself with the w5001 sitting in my basement. Still working with the picture adjustment (without any specific calibrating tool :( ) Funny I wanted to go to bleekers today and try to compare the output of a dvd movie on the panny compared to my Dell just to give me a base of comparison. I think I will stop by Bleerkers to compare notes with your visit.

Greetings

The list goes on ... which includes the Sony SXRDs ... (Guess they are cheap low quallity sets ...) and the other 200 odd digital sets I professionally calibrate every year ...

Regards

Here is some info in regards to the posterization that we are seeing, from CES in another post on this forum.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=627517&highlight=dell+plasma

I realize it's more than likely, it is a source issue......

So far, i haven't seen any solutions for it.....

If it's a case of calibrating thru the service menu.......
Then we need a set of guidelines to go by......

Or, do we have to get a pro in thier, to do it?

Greetings

Something to play around with is to stop a frame on a DVD where the effect occurs and look at the bit rate for that scene. Is it high or low?

Regards

I have not got around, to hardly any dvd viewing yet.
But i will certainly look into that.

I still can't past the SD content problem with the posterization.

My main issue, is the effects on anything but HD content.
I guess that would mean, getting into the service menu end of it.

If i'm not mistaken.
I understand you will be getting one of these sets shortly & then calibrating it.
Are you goimg to perform the ISF? That's what i'm hoping....

Then maybe, you could give some guidelines for this set...............

Would definitely, be a big help............

The threads on this forum (especially this one) convinced me to order the Dell W5001C just before Xmas. 2 days ago I was so close to return my Dell because of a heavy effect of posterization in SD and with DVDs but I decided to spend 15 minutes and calibrate it (see below) after watching Sin City and finding a bit of tint. I can say that the posterization effect is but completely eliminated (I noticed most on Mariah Carey's video running on MTV) and the color rendering on SD and DVD is enhanced and more natural.

IMHO, the Dell is worth the money I paid for it and more: 2 HDMI, RGB, great looks (subjective), and yes great customer service (I called for a low buzzing noise, and after no more than 5 minutes wait the person that answered me exhausted the options he had in his decision tree he immediately setup a replacement for the TV).

Take my opinion for what it's worth and consider the reason you will use the TV for (computer interface, DVD, games, etc)


Component 1 (AV5) HDMI 1
Preset Personal Personal
Brightness 36 36
Contrast 40 40
Sharpness 8 8
Color Temperature Blue Blue
Color Tint 50 50
Color Saturation 34 34

Toe-Knee

I can't say, i'm optimistic...................

Will try,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Will see.........................................

Thank you all for the info above. I'm close to pulling the trigger and while shopping around I noticed a good deal on the Costco website. Just wanted to let everyone know if you are considering buying either the Dell W4201C and W5001C if you buy it through Costo it looks like you will get a 2 year warranty versus the 1 year you get through the Dell site for the same price. Save yourself $250. Also no shipping costs, etc....so you might save another $25.

If anyone else knows of any good deals on the dells or coupons let me know.

Thanks again!

Thank you all for the info above. I'm close to pulling the trigger and while shopping around I noticed a good deal on the Costco website. Just wanted to let everyone know if you are considering buying either the Dell W4201C and W5001C if you buy it through Costo it looks like you will get a 2 year warranty versus the 1 year you get through the Dell site for the same price. Save yourself $250. Also no shipping costs, etc....so you might save another $25.

If anyone else knows of any good deals on the dells or coupons let me know.

Thanks again!

Costco wasn't a viable option in Canada, as they don't offer the Dell 50" plasma. They do sell the 42" version, but last week it was only $200 less than the big one. There's no justification in the world for not getting the 50" one for the extra couple of hundred bucks! If extended warranty is an issue it can be added. My W5001C is expected on Friday of next week and I am hoping that I will be happy with my purchase.

Hi 74Capri,

I just changed my Color Saturation to 40 on HDMI 1 and it looks much better while conserving the shadows. I have a Cable DVR box with component cable linked to AV5 and HDMI linked to HDMI 1.

"Tweaking for an hour gives you years of enjoyment on your TV (if the TV is good to begin with)"

I am really interested in knowing the results you got.

Toe-Knee

Hi 74Capri,

I just changed my Color Saturation to 40 on HDMI 1 and it looks much better while conserving the shadows. I have a Cable DVR box with component cable linked to AV5 and HDMI linked to HDMI 1.

"Tweaking for an hour gives you years of enjoyment on your TV (if the TV is good to begin with)"

I am really interested in knowing the results you got.

Toe-Knee

I have just changed the settings. waitng awhile to watch different channels.
Seems a bit dark to me, but i'll give it some more time.

I don't have the box with hdmi, just dvi. I don't use it though, too many isssues.
Someone told me to get, a 6412 Phase III box, but did not state what model # it is. So i am running components at those settings. B-36 ,C-40, Sharp-8, Blue, tint-50 & sat-34.....

Check back with you later on.......Thx.......

Why do you have hdmi & components? do you switch backnforth to check differences?

My cable box S-Video Out (SD-TV) and the DVD Component are going to my Yamaha receiver. The Component Out of my receiver is going into the Component of the TV. My S-Video output is upconverted through the receiver.

Toe-Knee

Greetings

Yes, I will be getting it on the 17th according to Dell. I expect it to be calibrated the same day it arrives and then touched up as needed. And yes, it will be ISF calibrated since I'm an ISF guy after all. ;)

I was told by someone more in the know that DVD bit rates isn't the issue here anyway.

Samsung at the CES here in Vegas had their new 13 Bit plasma displays up ... touting their 529 billion colours ... well the ability to do more colors means less posterization. More colors mean more natural gradient transitions ...

(The demos looked nice, but I wondered about seeing a difference when back 8 feet versus 3 feet at the show.) Extra color bits were really hard to see. And if their DNIE is still locked to on ... then forget about it.

Regards

My cable box S-Video Out (SD-TV) and the DVD Component are going to my Yamaha receiver. The Component Out of my receiver is going into the Component of the TV. My S-Video output is upconverted through the receiver.

Toe-Knee

Oh, i see...

What's the advantage of running the components, thru the reciever 1st?
Switching?

BTW, So far those settings are pretty good, although i've been busy &
have not watched much tv, since i reset.

Except for the games, of course in HD........

Greetings

Yes, I will be getting it on the 17th according to Dell. I expect it to be calibrated the same day it arrives and then touched up as needed. And yes, it will be ISF calibrated since I'm an ISF guy after all. ;)

I was told by someone more in the know that DVD bit rates isn't the issue here anyway.

Samsung at the CES here in Vegas had their new 13 Bit plasma displays up ... touting their 529 billion colours ... well the ability to do more colors means less posterization. More colors mean more natural gradient transitions ...

(The demos looked nice, but I wondered about seeing a difference when back 8 feet versus 3 feet at the show.) Extra color bits were really hard to see. And if their DNIE is still locked to on ... then forget about it.

Regards

Will be looking forward to your comments & suggestions, on the set......

Oh, i see...

What's the advantage of running the components, thru the reciever 1st?
Switching?

By running the component cables there are two advantages.

1) When you run the audio through the receiver the audio and video is in more synch

2) You should be able to run mutliple video components throguh your receiver hence there is only one set of component cables going to the TV.

Upconverting is another reason I am running my Cablebox S-Video through my receiver. The Cable box does not allow both Component and HDMI output so I am forced to use the S-Video.

Toe-Knee

Well I got my set on Saturday and I must say I'm not impressed thus far. Possibly source issues but I'm not sure. I do know that it is not the cables that I have because I've tried various ones. I did solve the vertical banding issue that I had by going to an S Video out of my Satellite receiver but the picture is noisy and not very defined at all. Dvd is ok but the set struggles with dark scenes and reproducing shadows. I have tried the settings that are posted but the noise in the picture is killing the clarity. I think that the noise is the source, How can I clean this signal up? Will a DVDO iScan HD+ do a better job of upscaling the video signal then my Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver? I'm flustered and have been playing with the setting like mad for the last three days. My wife thinks the set is crap because the one at Best Buy are so clear, She doesn't understand that they are feeding their set specific video to make the sets look their best. Hopefully Michael TLV can shed some lite on the settings in the Service Menu and tweaks to help make it look better, If not I sending the thing back and I'll have to pay the restocking fees. I'd rather spend $500 to send it back then almost $5000 to keep it and not be happy.

Well I got my set on Saturday and I must say I'm not impressed thus far. Possibly source issues but I'm not sure. I do know that it is not the cables that I have because I've tried various ones. I did solve the vertical banding issue that I had by going to an S Video out of my Satellite receiver but the picture is noisy and not very defined at all. Dvd is ok but the set struggles with dark scenes and reproducing shadows. I have tried the settings that are posted but the noise in the picture is killing the clarity. I think that the noise is the source, How can I clean this signal up? Will a DVDO iScan HD+ do a better job of upscaling the video signal then my Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver? I'm flustered and have been playing with the setting like mad for the last three days. My wife thinks the set is crap because the one at Best Buy are so clear, She doesn't understand that they are feeding their set specific video to make the sets look their best. Hopefully Michael TLV can shed some lite on the settings in the Service Menu and tweaks to help make it look better, If not I sending the thing back and I'll have to pay the restocking fees. I'd rather spend $500 to send it back then almost $5000 to keep it and not be happy.

What connection are you using from your cable box? S-video, HDMI? How does the HD programming look on the display?

What connection are you using from your cable box? S-video, HDMI? How does the HD programming look on the display?


I'm using S-Video from my Sat. box, DVD content @480i is better. Only really SD content that is giving me problems.

I just got back from my BMS and their 50 and 60 elites look just as bad with SD so it's source material and channel dependant. I'm in the works for a DVDO HD with SDI upgrade and going to use SDI on my Sat box and DVD Player. That should fix my problems with SD tv.

It seams also that if I bypass my Receiver and go directly into the Plasma it does clean up the image a lot, Yamaha's video processor is adding or not altering the SD signal and does look worse. I'll try to feed the DVD straight (component) and see where I get later. Possibly my Receiver is adding to the problem. I can get my display IFS calibrated for $60/hr but I might wait till I see about the iScan HD.

I'll keep you all posted on my findings but as I said it appears to be source related when even $6,000.00 and up displays are encountering the same problems and even with HD content they have the same problems. I have been told I'm overly picky since I am used to my DLP Front projector that was scaled to 1440x960 on a 66" and looked amazing. Guess I'll have to wait.

CxTurbo

Greetings

The list goes on ... which includes the Sony SXRDs ... (Guess they are cheap low quallity sets ...) and the other 200 odd digital sets I professionally calibrate every year ...

Regards

Given that plasmas do lose brightness over a period of time, does this mean that calibration will have to be repeated several times? This could be a major source of expenditure if so.

For anyone that has this TV. I will be hooking a SA 8300HD up to the TV via HDMI. When I am watching SD 4:3 content, what stretch modes will I have available to me? I'm a little confused by what I have been reading. I am very close to getting this TV, but I want to make sure I understand what I am getting into (First Plasma Panel, and first HDTV).

Also, I will be using this entensively with a media center and to play DVDs. For widescreen DVDs that don't match the aspect ratio of the TV, what kind of stretching do I have available to me? I'm concerned about burn it so I want to make sure most images fill the entire screen.

Thanks

For what it is worth I found a review of the earlier Dell 4200HD model. While there were obviously many early problems with this set in terms of buzzing noises and the HDMI connection, this review is thorough and indicates that the PQ is very good (in fact almost on par with a high-end Pioneeer unit). I suspect a great deal of the trouble reported so far with the new Dell 50" model is source and calibration related.

I'm from Ontario, with Rogers Cable,

Running an SA8300HD on a dell w5001c

I have it hooked up using component just now. I have the SA8300 using "passthrough" so it doesn't convert the signals to 1080i (which is one of the options)

Stretch modes? Well you have the TV stretch modes and the set top box stretch modes.

The modes on the TV include
1. Standard (16:9)
2. "Zoom" which can be good for letterbox Standard TV (SD content)
3. 4:3 (standard TV) leaving bars on each side, good for SD content.
4. Wide (I don't notice any diff between this and standard)
5. Fullscreen (I don't notice any diff between this and standard)

The modes on hte SA8300 are
Normal, Stretch, Zoom 1 and Zoom 2
Stretch distorts the content to become 16:9 widescreen. (stretch is not available if the content is already HD)
Zoom 1 does ok with letterboxed stuff.
Zoom 2 might be for 4:3 letterboxed, rarely used for me.


People were talking about picture quality and hte Dell.

I find it does a great job with most HD and DVD content. I also find that 480p DVD blacks are great and don't have that "Greenish black" tinges.
It seems that some SD content is "blocky" and "digitized" as they say and oddly some shows/channels are better than others. It seems to be a mixed bag. I am tending to simply not watch anything that isn't HD anyway so I am starting to not even care how it handles SD TV anymore.

I agree that the signals and quality of the content coming into the TV makes a difference on the blacks and such.

I also find some shows I can turn the brightness and contrast way down and it looks great and is fine. But other shows that are mostly dark, the details in the shadows seem lost when I turn it down so much. People's brown or black hair doesn't look right when the brightness is that low. But I am still watching and figuring it out.

Watching HD sports or HD content is still excellent value on such a sized TV.

Don't expect any plasma or flat panel to improve your Standard TV watching in my opinion. That's not really it's purpose.

Sorry - here is that link:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1768392,00.asp

derek canada - I have the 37" Dell LCD and found the same issie with "Wide" aspect mode. What I have discovered is that Wide is supposed to be a non-linear stretch mode to make 4:3 content fill the screen without it looking too stretched. This is a useful function. However it only works on Ant, composite, s-video!! When hooked up to component the Wide mode does not function and merely is the same as Standard. This is EVEN when it is a 480i 4:3 signal passed into the component input. It is a strange oversight on Dell's part. The TV should recognize that a SD (480i) signal is coming in and allow the Wide to work properly regardless of if it coming through component. Other HDTV do this just fine. I generally like the TV but this annoyance means if I want to do the Wide non-linear stretch on SD channels I must use the ANT input or switch to the regular video input, then back to compnent when watching HD. I find I usually just stay through the compnent and use 4:3 aspect for SD channels which does work. The additional annoyance is that unlike most HDTV, the Dell doesn't remember the aspect mode per resolution. That means when I switch to HD I have to change aspect to Standard and when I swith to an SD channel (still through the same input-component), it doesn't remember what the last aspect mode was for SD so I have to switch to 4:3 and vice versa when goin back to HD channel.

The smooth TV viewing usability that established TV brands like Toshiba, Sony, even Sharp (for LCD), Panny, etc just isn't there with the Dell. They overlook small but important details of making the best viewing experience.

Hi 74Capri,

I just changed my Color Saturation to 40 on HDMI 1 and it looks much better while conserving the shadows. I have a Cable DVR box with component cable linked to AV5 and HDMI linked to HDMI 1.

"Tweaking for an hour gives you years of enjoyment on your TV (if the TV is good to begin with)"

I am really interested in knowing the results you got.

Toe-Knee

I noticed some improvement with these settings.

Overall, it's still there, but better...

Some faces still have some greenish hue.
As well as hair, just looks fake.....Not all the time though....

Not close to being totally satified yet, but at least we are getting somewhere...

Think i will continue to muddle, till we get some more info............

Also, i get your hook ups..................

Thx for the tips/////////////////////////////////

Zzen,

I was wondering the same thing about "Wide" mode. I have a feeling this is a bug and not an oversite. Have you contacted Dell about this? We should make sure that Dell is aware of this problem. Perhaps a software update can fix it.

Rich

I just saw this TV at my local dell kiosk. This was the second time I looked at it, and I think I was even more impressed this time. The colors, the detail...everything looked amazing. It was VERY vibrant. Granted, it was using Dell's own video, but it still looked absolutely amazing.

I think I have decided on the lasma I am going to buy..and this is it. It compares VERY favorably to all the "high end' equipment at Best Buy.

Greetings

As with our cars, we don't tune them up once in their life time. As the TV wears ... things change.

Calibration is a "system" approach. If you change out DVD players ... the unit will likely have to be retweaked.

Touch up services are usually fairly reasonable and tend to occur at 12-18 month intervals ...

Regards

Not close to being totally satified yet, but at least we are getting somewhere...


By the sounds of it, you won't be 100% satisfied with flat panel display technology... just to make sure, you are aware that nothing to date can touch a properly calibrated, quality CRT display, right?

Hello...I'm new to this forum.

I've had the 42" Dell 4201c for about 4 days now.

Overall, I'm impressed with the PQ. HD is amazing, especially sports. I have seen some weirdness with really black screeen shots, but nothing major.

My main issue is ghosting. I'm seeing ghost images VERY easily. (I know there's a big thread about ghosting/burn-in, I've read all 34 pages, but I'm hoping to get feedback from other Dell owners). On light backgrounds I can see COMCAST frequently (from the menu guide). I watched tennis for about 1 hr the other night, and the scoreboard was ghosted for at least an hour (could see it from sitting on the couch). If I turn the TV off and on, when standing very close, I can see various images from our recent viewing. The images go away, but it has totally freaked out my fiance. She had a bad dream about burn-in!!

So I called Dell Support tonight, and they had me do a test. Unplug all cables including power, hold the power button for 30 seconds, wait 15 seconds, hold for 30 seconds, and plug back in and power up. Then go to the VGA input and let the RGB box dance around the screen. After each jump, I could see the ghost of the previous location. As soon as I said that, he authorized a replacement to be sent to my home = amazing customer service.

But here's the kicker: if I wait for the replacement, my return period will expire. If the ghosting will go away with the new set, I will be very pleased with this TV. But if it doesn't I'm gonna be upset, and regret not returning.

Has anyone else had ghosting issues with their Dell? If you go to VGA input and let the box dance around, do you see ghosts if you look up close? Please let me know your thoughts. (I'm considering going to a LCD or DLP to remove the burn-in worries) thanks

Greetings

As with our cars, we don't tune them up once in their life time. As the TV wears ... things change.

Calibration is a "system" approach. If you change out DVD players ... the unit will likely have to be retweaked.

Touch up services are usually fairly reasonable and tend to occur at 12-18 month intervals ...

Regards

Thanks for that info.

By the sounds of it, you won't be 100% satisfied with flat panel display technology... just to make sure, you are aware that nothing to date can touch a properly calibrated, quality CRT display, right?

yes, i am aware of that...

Being that thier is not much hd available yet...


I'm just trying, to get the best pic possible on sd & other content.
I don't expect perfection,,just a normal looking face hair, etc...

Not asking much,,,,, when you spend a wheelbarrow full of cash........

At the very least, the company you buy from, should at least try to help you out...
Maybe that's why they have people thier, you cannot communicate with....
So, they don't have to deal with it..........Pretty sad indeed.........

Like i said before,,,I wil never, ever, drop a dime on Dell again...........

yes, i am aware of that...

Being that thier is not much hd available yet...


I'm just trying, to get the best pic possible on sd & other content.
I don't expect perfection,,just a normal looking face hair, etc...

Not asking much,,,,, when you spend a wheelbarrow full of cash........

At the very least, the company you buy from, should at least try to help you out...
Maybe that's why they have people thier, you cannot communicate with....
So, they don't have to deal with it..........Pretty sad indeed.........

Like i said before,,,I wil never, ever, drop a dime on Dell again...........

Maybe you're being too tough on Dell? The most common complaint from people who buy and get a new HDTV home is disappointment in how they handle SD signals. Countless HDTV's (LCoS, LCD, DLP, and yes, even very high-end makes/models) are returned for this very reason. I am told that HD amplifies garbage that is in the SD signal to start with. It may simply be a fact of life until the standard def signals are phased out. I myself looked at every other technology before buying a plasma, and the trouble you describe was visible in every one to some degree. Short of pro calibration we all have to deal with some shortfalls when it comes to inferior source signals. Luckily, the place I went had very knowledgeable staff and they were very honest about showing the disparity between HD and SD signals, and even between various SD broadcasts! I think we all understand your frustration, but until there is consistent quality from all input sources these problems will persist. If that isn't acceptable then you might consider returning your plasma and holding off until better signals are more universally available.

Maybe you're being too tough on Dell? The most common complaint from people who buy and get a new HDTV home is disappointment in how they handle SD signals. Countless HDTV's (LCoS, LCD, DLP, and yes, even very high-end makes/models) are returned for this very reason. I am told that HD amplifies garbage that is in the SD signal to start with. It may simply be a fact of life until the standard def signals are phased out. I myself looked at every other technology before buying a plasma, and the trouble you describe was visible in every one to some degree. Short of pro calibration we all have to deal with some shortfalls when it comes to inferior source signals. Luckily, the place I went had very knowledgeable staff and they were very honest about showing the disparity between HD and SD signals, and even between various SD broadcasts! I think we all understand your frustration, but until there is consistent quality from all input sources these problems will persist. If that isn't acceptable then you might consider returning your plasma and holding off until better signals are more universally available.

I fully understand the signal issue.........
You don't put regular gas in a ferarri.

I have other issues with Dell..

To name a few:
Unethical/Unfair, if not illegal advertising practices.

Those are another topic altogether, but i already have complaints on file,
through consumer affairs. I'll let them deal with Dell on those.

So, no, i don't feel i am being too hard on them.

Well - so far, my experience with the W4201 has been pretty good. I had noticed the ghosting for a little, but after a couple of weeks of break-in of the fresh screen, that's literally faded away. Overall - I'm very content with the screen...was wanting to wait for 1080p set, but the price was hard to pass up. I still need to setup my HTPC on this thing...that's when the real fun happens :)

I fully understand the signal issue.........
You don't put regular gas in a ferarri.

I have other issues with Dell..

To name a few:
Unethical/Unfair, if not illegal advertising practices.

Those are another topic altogether, but i already have complaints on file,
through consumer affairs. I'll let them deal with Dell on those.

So, no, i don't feel i am being too hard on them.

This is a bit surprising. We have dealt with Dell on the PC front for many years and they have always provided very courteous and professional customer service. Are you dealing with them in Canada or the US?

I ordered my TV on December 26th from Dell Canada, got the call from the shipping company day before yesterday and received the TV in my home yesterday on the 10th. Pretty good with two days of holidays in there.

So far only have the DVD player hooked up on component (5), morotola DCT2224 cable box on composite (err can't remember which now at work). SD imperfections are amplified quite a bit but I expected that. DVD looks pretty damn good already after I adjusted only brightness/contrast darker and color temperature to Normal. Will have to wait for my HDMI cable to arrive from monoprice.

I freaked out when I watched my first DVD, March of the Penquins borrowed from my friend when it was showing some shots of ice. Saw what looked like snowing movement in the ice but I hooked up an additional video monitor cable to my old CRT 27" Sony and it showed up there as well! :rolleyes: Source material, source material!

Pretty excited but trying to keep TV darker for now since it's so new and watching everything in stretch for now. I noticed there's a Conditioning menu setting for cleaning up burn-in, anyone using that and if so, regular basis?

Just wish it would remember the different picture settings and aspect settings when it switches inputs. The remote could be more functional as well, once I save up some dough I will replace it with one of those Harmony ones. Overall, pretty satisfied so far with only the 6 hours I've spent with it so far.

I've been waiting forever to move up from my 9 year old curved screen Sony but the recent sale Dell had was too good to pass up with my company's additional 5% discount. Now I have a 42" HDTV plasma for a price everything included that would have been where I started with BEFORE taxes on a panasonic EDTV here in Canada. This forum was a great help to me in my decision process to go with this TV. Thanks to all for keeping the info flow going on this TV.

I ordered my TV on December 26th from Dell Canada, got the call from the shipping company day before yesterday and received the TV in my home yesterday on the 10th. Pretty good with two days of holidays in there.

So far only have the DVD player hooked up on component (5), morotola DCT2224 cable box on composite (err can't remember which now at work). SD imperfections are amplified quite a bit but I expected that. DVD looks pretty damn good already after I adjusted only brightness/contrast darker and color temperature to Normal. Will have to wait for my HDMI cable to arrive from monoprice.

I freaked out when I watched my first DVD, March of the Penquins borrowed from my friend when it was showing some shots of ice. Saw what looked like snowing movement in the ice but I hooked up an additional video monitor cable to my old CRT 27" Sony and it showed up there as well! :rolleyes: Source material, source material!

Pretty excited but trying to keep TV darker for now since it's so new and watching everything in stretch for now. I noticed there's a Conditioning menu setting for cleaning up burn-in, anyone using that and if so, regular basis?

Just wish it would remember the different picture settings and aspect settings when it switches inputs. The remote could be more functional as well, once I save up some dough I will replace it with one of those Harmony ones. Overall, pretty satisfied so far with only the 6 hours I've spent with it so far.

I've been waiting forever to move up from my 9 year old curved screen Sony but the recent sale Dell had was too good to pass up with my company's additional 5% discount. Now I have a 42" HDTV plasma for a price everything included that would have been where I started with BEFORE taxes on a panasonic EDTV here in Canada. This forum was a great help to me in my decision process to go with this TV. Thanks to all for keeping the info flow going on this TV.


That sounds very encouraging. When you reference the Conditioning menu setting is that similar to the "pixel orbit" functions on some other sets that prevent burn-in?

That sounds very encouraging. When you reference the Conditioning menu setting is that similar to the "pixel orbit" functions on some other sets that prevent burn-in?No this is not the "pixel orbit" found on some other sets. From what I understand, this is a utility that will try to "wipe" the screen to eliminate "ghosted" or "retained" images.

If an image appears to be stuck on the TV, select Plasma Conditioning to help eliminate any image retention. Using the plasma conditioning feature may take several hours. Severe cases of image retention are known as burn-in, the plasma conditioning feature does not remove burn-in.
Use plasma conditioning only when you experience a problem with image retention. Overuse may degrade the TV brightness.

O.k

I have almost got this thing licked. I have the Dvdo iScan HD hooked to the display via DVI to HDMI cable and the DVD hooked up via Component. Dvd playback is almost breath taking, but not smooth as glass (I would like to have tears brought to my eyes).:D Very defined and detailed, struggles with some shadows still but I think I can Iron that out with Cont/Bright adjustments. I also have come to the conclusion that the remaining noise is a poor D/A in my dvd player, I will confirm this come the weekend. I will be testing out both the Pioneer Elite and Sony ES flagship dvd units plus a Phillips HDMI player to name a few.

The Yamaha receiver was adding to my problem and I am now not doing any vido switching with that unit. Signals gat better by using the Plasmas internal video processor directly. I'm not entierly impressed with the receiver but it sounds goo so what the heck. Vidoe switching should be left to Video devices. It's funny how this or any HD plasma does a good job of showing just how bad your weak HT components are!!!!!

Settings;

I have the DVDO set to 1366x768 with a scan rate of 58.4 the native resolution advertised was right! Most of the time they are1360x768. SD material scaled to the same resolution via S-Video is better Id say comparable to 480hp DAVID playback with some blocking still in the shadows.Poor source no question, just wish they would get there crap together and send all signals in YD.Why should we be punished for being mental instable enough to drop 5K on a Television :D!!!!

I'm getting it down and still need to tweak this weekend with some more help from the local BM store that I love so much. Maybe I'll impress myself, maybe!!!!!!!

CxTurbo

I get my satellite service installed tomorrow but was wondering if the OTA HD must be paired with an internal antenna (since i live in apartment) in order to see anything at all in Vancouver, BC Canada.

I just received my 4201C today. Can't wait for DISH to come out with their MPEG-4 boxes!

I get my satellite service installed tomorrow but was wondering if the OTA HD must be paired with an internal antenna (since i live in apartment) in order to see anything at all in Vancouver, BC Canada.

There's a thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590048&highlight=vancouver) that covers OTA HD reception for Vancouver, BC. But yes, you will need an antenna connected to your ATSC tuner.

Steve.

Anybody know whether the speakers are 4 ohm or 8 ohm?

…I’ve had the W5001C for over 3 weeks and other than the great vivid colors & brightness there is nothing positive I can say about this TV. If I was not a DELL reseller I’d be sending it back…but under my account agreement I can’t return stuff <sigh>. Anyone wanna buy a Plasma? In my opinion the picture quality on HD is mediocre…and the TV becomes an eye torture device on SD signals.

Anyway, to make the long story as short as possible and explain where my disappointment stems from. First TV (of 2) had a weird red pixel mis-firing problem. On black backgrounds I saw random red dots appear all over the image. I don’t have amazing eyesight yet noticed it almost immediately sitting 10 feet away. Dell replaced the TV without any hustle, at least that part of the experience is positive. I thought all the horrible picture quality issues I’ve experienced were stemming from the same problem as the random red pixels…but the second set proved that wrong.

To put it simply the picture quality is awful on any input, with any source. I use a DirecTV HD TiVo along with a 720p/1080i up-converting DVD player, and a PC for my sources. Both on HDMI and COMPONENT the picture stinks…I use monster cables so that’s not the problem…and my old SHARP 37in AQUIOS LCD & SONY GRAND WEGA run circles around the DELL in terms of picture quality. To elaborate, the blacks are awful…it almost looks like there is “blocks” of different shades of black on darker colors/scenes where there should be one color. Only way to get rid of them is to run “torch mode” @ 58+ brightness which washes out the rest of the colors. Blacks & gray’s also come out fuzzy and greenish in darker scenes…A perfect example of it can be seen in dark hair. I’m not sure if this is referred to as posturization (spelling?). I’ve tried every posted calibration with very poor results, and I’ve tried calibrating the set using the THX tools available on pixar dvds. The only passable settings I found were 58 bright, 44 cont, color natural or blue, tint 49, hue 50, sharp 6…those settings get rid of the artifacts in HD, but wash the colors out. Not to mention retina “burn-in” . Watching battlestar galactica was downright painful as its full of dark colors & scenes.

Am I just spoiled by LCD? I also have 2 year old SONY GRAND WEGA 50inch rear projection LCD and the picture quality on it is night/day better than the DELL. Is the “black’s” problem a common plague to Plasma’s in general? Is no one else appalled at the picture quality?

…I’ve had the W5001C for over 3 weeks and other than the great vivid colors & brightness there is nothing positive I can say about this TV. If I was not a DELL reseller I’d be sending it back…but under my account agreement I can’t return stuff <sigh>. Anyone wanna buy a Plasma? In my opinion the picture quality on HD is mediocre…and the TV becomes an eye torture device on SD signals.

I was seeing the exact same things you were, bubu. The posterization / false contouring / blobbiness / whatever in the dark areas were what did it for me; dark spots, especially hair, looked absolutely terrible. I was able to return it - they picked it up last Tuesday - and I've been reassured that they'll refund my money completely. That hasn't happened yet (they'll probably get the TV today or tomorrow), so I'm crossing my fingers and praying that there won't be any snags in issuing my refund.

I think I'm going to try the NEC 50XR5 next.

Too bad you got a bad one, but I doubt anybody would want to buy a defective tv. you would come out much better getting it replaced under warrantee.

If you read through the entire thread you will see some of the stuff you mention is just a problem with upscaling SD to large screens regardless whether they are LCD or Plasma.

The rest sounds like you have a damaged set. As you can tell from readng this thread many of us who have done considerable comparisons and testing are quite satisfied that the PQ is on par with other similarly prices sets.

You should get it replaced.

...alright, SET #3 on the way. What have I got to loose. I'm not convinced that TV #2 is defective but I can hope. I’m surprised you guys would keep your TV’s if this proves to be the norm.

The alarming thing is that TV #1 (random red pixels on blacks - I still have it) has the exact same picture quality issues as TV #2, minus the red dots of course. I can resign myself to poor picture quality with SD signals…but it’s inexcusable when you run HD sources.

Heck if the 3rd tv is the same as the 2nd one; either DELL's QC is non existent…or it’s just the way it is.

I also have 2 year old SONY GRAND WEGA 50inch rear projection LCD and the picture quality on it is night/day better than the DELL.

Forgot to mention I have done a direct comparison with the Sony Grand WEGA (not quite 2 years old) and the Dell blows it away in almost every way. The posterization may not be as apparent because the Sony can't produce the contrast and lumens the Plasma can but if you look close it is there. That is why I think you have a very defective Dell.

I also have a Sony HD front projector, and that compares very favorably with the DELL. Both are much better than the WEGA.

I have read every post on the thread...

A previous poster hit what I'm seeing dead on from HD sources - posterization / false contouring / blobbiness. Battlestar Galactica was unwatchable in HD (there's a directv exclusive channel that rebroadcasts it in HD). Frankly, it looked better in SD than in HD...

Again...the HD picture quality only stinks in dark scenes, otherwise...yeah wow...but the second it gets into blacks...ugh, well...no need to repeat myself. Sad thing is I bought the plasma specifically because I expected "truer" blacks & grey's VS. the LCD tvs I own.

I really hope it is a 2nd defective unit...heck maybe they have a bad batch of them?!? I can get new ones shipped to me all day long...heck I'll call to get the 3rd replaced if it proves to have bad PQ based on your statment that you compared a Grand Wega side by side to the DELL.

If you got two tv's with the same crappy picture problem, maybe it's your line voltage or other wave problem.

Are you getting bad HD over the internal ASTC tuner too. The feed from my local PBS channel is so perfect it's mind blowing. It's even better than the demo material displayed on the high end systems at my local AV store.

on the 42" I think the PQ is awesome.

just went into best buy to compare to the panny 500u and while I understand that PQ in a showroom is different, I feel that the Dell blew it away. Seriously. The 500U looked so flat. The Dell has that 3D look that plasmas should have.

if only it didn't retain images so easily....they've scheduled a replacement but I think I'm gonna cancel it, do a return, and order the NEC 42-xr4a.

I'm going to try "off air" HD bypassing the HD TiVo right now...

who knows maybe its a fubar TiVo...and DVD player...or some sort of "wave" problem as you described.

The TV is plugged into a monster power av center surge protector/stabalizer so I don't think its a power issue...

will post results asap...

...same PQ with direct atsc.

I don't believe that plasma's are subject to electromagnetic interferance, are there?

I guess I'll wait and see what set # 3 brings...

Greetings

Just got my 50" yesterday afternoon. Bad news ... it's going back for a replacement. The component video inputs are screwed up.

Initial reactions from the HDMI input and S-video ... what the heck is that soft shimmering edging effect? It looks like SVM on the edges ... and I can't turn it off. A definite softness to the image ... almost ... dare I say ... DNIE like. The unit was made in Taiwan.

Later in the evening, I put my Lumagen scaler to it and output 1366 x 768 (Actually 1410 x 768 as it turns out) and it cleaned up the image considerably. It made those silly shimmering edges go away and fine tuned the color decoding.

(The service menu looks nothing like the 50" I saw at the DELL CES booth just 10 days ago ... grrrr)

Not a promising start, but let's hope the next unit fares better.

Time for me to weigh in again here. I just received my replacement W5001C on Friday (more on the need for that in a moment). I've been messing with it (and TV #1 before it) for DAYS trying to get rid of the problems that I see being described as posterization, and I've made some progress (well, if you call trading one problem for another problem progress ). BTW, since most people seem to be seeing problems with dark areas, I suspect that what we're really seeing is "black crushing", or the reduction in detail in dark areas of an image due to the black level (brightness) being set too low.

I've all but completely removed this as a problem by setting the brightness UP and the contrast DOWN. I'll post exact settings later (I'm away from the TV at the moment) but they're in the neighborhood of 50-55 for brightness and 35-40 for contrast, depending on input. I have my SA8300HD connected via component and my Denon 2910 connected via HDMI (Y Pb Pr). Black crushing is evident only rarely, and only if I'm looking for it and am less than ~6ft from the set. From normal viewing distance (10-11 ft) it's gone, and HDTV as well as DVD material looks spectacular.

The tradeoff, obviously, is that now blacks are not really black, they're more of a dark gray. I'm getting used to it, and IMO the tradeoff is a good one - the increased black detail adds much more to PQ than the loss of black depth takes away. BTW, fact that this compromise is even necessary seems to indicate a grayscale/gamma problem, which is a good segue into into the reason I'm on my second W5001C.

About two weeks ago, I was starting to zero in on the gamma problem and noticed an option on the service menu called "PDP Panel GTSEL" which had three options: r = S-curve, r = 1.9, and r = 2.2. The default is "S-curve", but from what I've read over in the Display Calibration forum, a display gamma curve of 2.2 is considered ideal. In my haste to write down all of the default settings on my service menu before trying *anything*, I actually selected an option called "ADC Calibration" that I expected to take me to a page where the decoder settings could be tweaked.

Instead, what I got was a brief flickering of the display followed by an announcement of "Calibration Done" and a table displaying hopelessly fouled up new settings for offset and gain on the primaries. Sigh. Apparently, the set has the ability to calibrate itself based on a reference image that is present on the currently selected input, and whatever I was watching at the time had just been used for that purpose. So, here's a bit of advice that hopefully all Dell owners will heed without question:

DO NOT HIT THE OK BUTTON WHILE THE "ADC CALIBRATION" OPTION IS SELECTED ON THE SERVICE MENU!

After a brief chat session with the very friendly and eager Dell Support Staff (in New Delhi), it was determined that the set must be replaced. Nonetheless, I spent significant time over the next few days picking people's brains (one in particular, a calibrator named Jeff who uses the handle "umr" on this forum, was very patient and helpful). I tried rerunning the ADC Calibration with every image on DVE, but no joy. I'm guessing that either there's a specific image provided by Pixelworks for this purpose, or there's some other setup that needs to be done before/after in order to set things right. I've had no luck locating a service manual for the W5001C, either.

Okay, so the new set arrived on Friday. Saturday morning, my fingers trembled on the remote as I carefully scrolled past the ADC Calibration option to the PDP Panel GTSEL option. I selected r=2.2, confident that this would select a the "proper" gamma curve for the set and allow me to have the dark, uncrushed blacks we've all been striving for. Sadly, if changing the PDP Panel GTSEL option had any effect whatsoever, it must have been subtle. I'm not done messing with it yet, but with it set at r=2.2 (or r=1.9) I'm still seeing a lot of black crushing after calibrating with DVE. More than likely, we're going to have to wait for Michael TLV to get his replacement set and get it calibrated properly.

Greetings

The deal with the ADC calibration is that it only works when it is hooked up to a specific test pattern at the factory. We have no idea what this pattern looks like, but the program looks at specific things on the pattern to the exact pixel and comes up with the calibration. Good bet that the pattern comes from a generator of some form.

Samsung and LG are known to use these patterns for set up and the presence of this might point to either of those two as the providers of the sets.

Regards

FlyBack1,

Thanks for this info. I have been lurking for a while waiting to see the outcome of this "posterization" because I've been thinking about pulling the trigger on the W5001C.

What was confusing me is that people are saying that the problem improved when they altered the brightness. Since posterization is lack of color depth, I couldn't figure out how brightness would help that. Also, the fact that bright HD scenes looked great seemed to run contrary to lack of color depth.

So, I think the problem was misdiagnosed and you have hit the nail on the head in that it is actually "black crush" that this Dell is experiencing.

My hope is renewed that this model will be decent.

Found a good article regarding the calibration for black crush but can't post it due to newbie url posting restrictions...grrrr. But you can probably find it by doing a search for "black crush" in HomeCentric forums.

Also, looking forward to Michael TLV's comments.

Keep up the good work everyone,

Daryl

If it is Black crush......

Hopefully that clears up the fake looking faces & hair as well................

SOOOOOOOOOO!

Should one have pressed this ADC Calibration option that would have messed things up? Or does this option only function when hooked to the pattern generator?Should I be calling for a replacement set?

I have got the set looking good on DVD content and SD content is passable but a tad washed out. The iScan shows the capabilities of this display and with a good source the picture is Vibrant and Detailed. You can see the different textures and feel as if you are there!!!

I had the same problems with the Blacks (shadows) mostly looked like black sand in the picture and large Blocks. Once I spent a long time setting the Contrast and Brightness levels I got rid of most of the issues that I had with DVD content. Shadows are as they should be. No blocky blacks or sand. I had noise in the white that also appears to be gone. Possibly the set just couldn't display the proper shade of Grey in these areas? I'm no expert but its all good now. SD is washed out and not much I can do to get rid of the black/shadow problem with that content other then turn up the contrast and brightness as stated earlier. I have noticed that the Picture is better if viewed on the Vga port of the iScan and set with SD content. Possibly not Up samling it to digital (DVI or HDMI) and keeping it Analog has reduced ability to display the problems with as much detail. Again I'm not and expert and only "Think" that this is better quality.



Thanks
Cx

CxTurbo - if you were lucky enough to "bump" the ADC Calibration option when there was no signal on the currently selected input, no harm done - it just sort of sits there, doing nothing, until you can back out of it by hitting the Menu key on the remote. Otherwise, you should have seen the aforementioned screen flicker, followed by the "Calibration Done" message and all the new settings.

Michael TLV - I'm very intrigued by this whole business of using a test pattern for setting up the decoder. I'm guessing the exact pattern/signal is a closely guarded secret, but for the life of me I can't imagine why the manufacturer wouldn't make it available for guys like you who know what they're doing. The alternative, I think, is a lot of returned sets.

You mentioned that you had problems with the component inputs on your first W5001C. What sort of problems? And what about the "soft shimmering edging" effect - can you describe it further? I haven't noticed it on mine, and now that I think about it, I'm not sure I want to look for it!

Regarding the set you saw at CES, how was its service menu different from the one you got?

Yep FlyBack1 I saw the message, If I remember correctly. That would then mean something is now "FUBARED"? I think I might have all of a sudden developed a periodic "Red" pixel problem!!!!!! or something to that nature. :D

Please confirm that by seeing said screen this means that the calibration is now messed up and needs redoing. I hate being adventurous and not having manuals. I didn't think that this little "Bump" would have ill effect. My display seems to be ok but could that change? what are some of the side effects of this mishap? I usually laugh at people that do stupid stuff like this! I am now being served the biggie sized piece of "Humble Pie" ......

Cx

Greetings

Samsung and LG are known to use these patterns for set up and the presence of this might point to either of those two as the providers of the sets.

Regards

I am pretty sure it is Samsung glass. The remote codes are Phillips so the electronics may not be Samsung but the display is.

There is a 7th Gen Samsung model that uses this exact housing and trim right down to the vent pattern on the back. I noticed it while drilling around on Samsung's web site a couple of months ago, looking for manuals.

Also, in a previous post someone mentioned that a dell tech told them it was Sammy.

Please confirm that by seeing said screen this means that the calibration is now messed up and needs redoing.
Cx
I dunno - maybe. You said earlier that you were happy with the picture, so *maybe* you got lucky and the bump occured when the input signal was on something that at least resembled the factory test pattern? That would be amazing.

After my mishap, NOTHING I tried would allow me to set the brightness/contrast such that I could see the entire range of the DVE gray ramp patterns.

BTW, I still have the original set. If anyone wants to venture a guess as to the appropriate test pattern, I will gladly give it a try. It will just need to be something that I can input to the TV via DVD (HDMI or component) or PC (VGA or DVI).

Naaa, I don't think that they use static. I memory serves, The input switch to one of the Coax ones (TV) and all that was displayed after was static. I did have to screw with the Contrast a lot and I did notice that moving it had verry little effect! I could not see all of the white levels on the THX Contrast test and this may explain why. Avia Test showed all levels but I could not get it to a setting that the variation between The First and second block were drastic, and I could not adjust it to look half as bright as the first.

Cx

...well, after reading some more posts I think the problem has been mis-diagnosed. I think the blacks are being "crushed".

The reason I bought a Plasma was to get rid of the not quite black "gray-black" that my sharp lcd & sony rear lcd have...if the fix/solution is to wash out the blacks with brightness...well that just stinks.

Has anyone found settings that don't sacrifice the black depth?

Greetings

My Dell has the same purple dark end that my current model year Samsung 42" exhibits. Video black appears to be black but 1-4% above black immediately goes purple.

The service menu is different than the one I saw at CES in the following way ...

My set ...

contrast
Brightness
color
tint
R
G
B

The CES set ...

RGB Gains
RGB BIas ...

The full compliment of grayscale parameters and a big matrix showing the grayscale settings for each signal type ... 480i ... 480p ... 576 i ... 720 p ... etc.

The whites are too white and the blacks too black on the component inputs ...

Regards

Greetings

As for shimmering ... be careful what you wish for ...

Bright / dark edges ... overall image is soft but parts of that edge transition are "shiny" like little mirrors of silver white ...

Regards

Called Dell today and a new set is on its way. It appears that the "ADC Calibration" is input dependant. I only appear to have "Bumped" the calibration setting on two of these inputs and HDMI is ok and looks good (DVD Player) because thats not one of the two. Component 1 and VGA are the two inputs. I have no control of the Contrast on either of those inputs and White levels are blinding, which would explain the washed out colour, blooming whites and lack of detail on SD television on the VGA input. I feel stupid now but thank god for good customer service on Dells part, they were A1 and set up delivery for a new set ASAP. No Problems, No Questions.

Cx

So are we getting anywhere on this?

All i see is everyone getting replacements........

BTW, aren't you supposed to have a service manual,
to make adjustments in the menu?

I sure can't find one.........

My "Factory Menu" has the following options.

Test Pattern - this does the predictable thing, it displays one of a number of test patterns. While the test pattern is being displayed, the menu is gone.
Burn In Setting - selecting this gives options for running time, standby time, cycles, and "Start". I've never tried it.
Color Adjust - this one is frustrating. It appears to be locked - no keys on the remote get me to the next level. Maybe there's a hidden trick to getting in here, but I haven't found it. Another possibility is that it's no longer used, though it was on the Dell 4200HD (ttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6389617&highlight=EDID+Protect#post6389617). ).
RS232 Mode - Disabled by default. One other option, PWDEBUG, sounds interesting :-). The 4200HD had other options as well.
EDID Protect - All On (default) or All Off. Assume this has to do with Plug-n-play when connected to a PC.
IR Type - assume this is to tell the TV what sort of remote they decided to ship with it.
Self Test - haven't tried this.
ADC Calibration - DO NOT PRESS THE OK BUTTON WHILE THIS IS SELECTED!
MCU Upgrade - I suspect this is used for upgrading the TV's controller firmware.
Same Source PIP - haven't tried this, not sure why I'd want to.
PW1236B H Filter
PW1236B V Filter - The cursor skips over these, as if they're used for display purposes only. Interestingly, if you enter the SM when there is no input signal, the values in these are both zero.
Chip Menu - This one is interesting. Selecting it displays a small, apparently editable table of values. The columns are labeled PW318, PW1236, PWM2300, and TBD. Rows are labeled Brightness, Contrast, Saturation, Hue, R, G, and B. I haven't messed with these, but have observed that (a) when no signal is present, all values are zero, and (b) with a signal present on the currently selected input, the Brightness, Contrast, Saturation, and Hue values have the same values as set in the normal picture settings. Michael TLV - is this what you were referring to when describing the service menu on your set?
PDP Panel GTSEL - This is apparently a way to adjust the gamma curve for the display. The default value is "r = S-Curve", but "r = 1.9" and "r = 2.2"
are other options. I've messed with them a little, and they do seem to have an effect, but it's subtle. I'm not sure which is best, yet.

Greetings

Yes, you have described the SM to a Tee ... :)

The Chip menu is the only place to do the grayscale work and it is very hard doing it with only the three RGB items. You normally need 4 / 5 / 6 controls to get it anywhere close to right.

The Unit at the CES gave us access to the color adjust part ... unfortunately these do not. Right now, only an external scaler like the Lumagen will allow you to better tune the grayscale and perform color decoding fixes. A $1500 add-on.

Regards

The Chip menu is the only place to do the grayscale work and it is very hard doing it with only the three RGB items. You normally need 4 / 5 / 6 controls to get it anywhere close to right.
So, it sounds like you're not very optimistic about being able to calibrate this set properly. That's maybe the worst news I've heard about it.

Aside from the fact that I already have the W5001C, are there reasons to go the route of adding an expensive scaler as opposed to trying to get a better display? I'm asking because you are a calibrator, and I assume you have some reason for going with the Dell as opposed to something else.

So, it sounds like you're not very optimistic about being able to calibrate this set properly. That's maybe the worst news I've heard about it.

Aside from the fact that I already have the W5001C, are there reasons to go the route of adding an expensive scaler as opposed to trying to get a better display? I'm asking because you are a calibrator, and I assume you have some reason for going with the Dell as opposed to something else.

I hope he's not saying that either...........
I know i'm not dropping another 15 bones to make it right............

Maybe, we could smash them both together & have a W10002C............

Nah, would probably be twice as bad...............if that's possible..........

Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Dell..................

Greetings

It may sound strange, but I almost purposely stay away from brands that I know to be good. I'm getting these "off brands" more out of curiosity than anything.

I already have the Panasonic 42" ED set properly calibrated and it is sort of the benchmark for my testing. None of these plasma units are meant for my main home theater viewing. (Use a BenQ DLP projector for that)

(I've gone through the Samsung 42" ED set, the Panasonic, a budget Insignia HD plasma, and now this Dell HD plasma over the last year. The units are learning tools ... I get them and then I learn what I can about their strengths and weaknesses and then I move the unit on to my circle of friends who can't normally afford to buy these types of TV's. It's no fun getting a unit that is known to be good already ... that's no fun when it comes to the thrill of exploration.)

Regards

That does not sound strange......
I understand the logic too it........

But, it's also no fun dropping thousands on a set, that you spend more time
adjusting, than actual viewing and if you come to the conclusion that it may not
be able to be calibrated properly.....Then i should have just put the 4k on the
crap table. Would get more pleasure from that, for sure..........

Hopefully, you will learn some tweaks to strengthen this set and
not learn that it's all just one big weakness.............

Greetings

My Dell has the same purple dark end that my current model year Samsung 42" exhibits. Video black appears to be black but 1-4% above black immediately goes purple.

The service menu is different than the one I saw at CES in the following way ...

My set ...

contrast
Brightness
color
tint
R
G
B

The CES set ...

RGB Gains
RGB BIas ...

The full compliment of grayscale parameters and a big matrix showing the grayscale settings for each signal type ... 480i ... 480p ... 576 i ... 720 p ... etc.

The whites are too white and the blacks too black on the component inputs ...

Regards


Could the service menu vary according to which input is currently selected?

Steve.

Could the service menu vary according to which input is currently selected?
Interesting idea, so I just checked ... nope. Well, I didn't try them all, but I tried at least one each of VGA, ATSC, Composite, Component, HDMI, and the chip menu is the same for each.

derek canada - I have the 37" Dell LCD and found the same issie with "Wide" aspect mode. What I have discovered is that Wide is supposed to be a non-linear stretch mode to make 4:3 content fill the screen without it looking too stretched. This is a useful function. However it only works on Ant, composite, s-video!! When hooked up to component the Wide mode does not function and merely is the same as Standard. This is EVEN when it is a 480i 4:3 signal passed into the component input. It is a strange oversight on Dell's part. The TV should recognize that a SD (480i) signal is coming in and allow the Wide to work properly regardless of if it coming through component. Other HDTV do this just fine. I generally like the TV but this annoyance means if I want to do the Wide non-linear stretch on SD channels I must use the ANT input or switch to the regular video input, then back to compnent when watching HD. I find I usually just stay through the compnent and use 4:3 aspect for SD channels which does work. The additional annoyance is that unlike most HDTV, the Dell doesn't remember the aspect mode per resolution. That means when I switch to HD I have to change aspect to Standard and when I swith to an SD channel (still through the same input-component), it doesn't remember what the last aspect mode was for SD so I have to switch to 4:3 and vice versa when goin back to HD channel.

The smooth TV viewing usability that established TV brands like Toshiba, Sony, even Sharp (for LCD), Panny, etc just isn't there with the Dell. They overlook small but important details of making the best viewing experience.

Don't know if Tech Support was contacted or not, never saw a reply if they were. I have same issue with the 50", and just logged a ticket with Dell.

Don't know if Tech Support was contacted or not, never saw a reply if they were. I have same issue with the 50", and just logged a ticket with Dell.

Guess I should have searched their forums first. It may not be the TV, instead it could be the Comcast box. Looked up my Motorola box documentation, and they have options you can set at a service menu. They include output 1080i, and what to do if it's a 480i channel. If you set it to 480p, then the picture is automatically streatched to be full screen (but I don't like the look as you get fat people.) Guess I'll have to stick with Zoom on the 480i channels, and Standard on the HD ones...

So, all of you that have this TV....Would you recommend it to someone else or no? And why?

I've been keeping an eye on this thread, but now that people have had it for a few weeks I'm really curious as to what the final opinions are.

Thanks

So, all of you that have this TV....Would you recommend it to someone else or no? And why?

I've been keeping an eye on this thread, but now that people have had it for a few weeks I'm really curious as to what the final opinions are.

Thanks


Speaking for myself, I would buy it again. Nothing else I checked out had the same features for the same price plus warranty. HD is awesome, truely awesome. SD is crap in comparison, but thats not the TV's fault. All the problems with black colors and such I read are invisible to me. Don't doubt others may see things I don't, but nobody who has seen my set has anything but compliments and praise (and most have DLP's or other brand of plasma's.)

The wide setting not filling the screen is annoying when hooked up to HDMI (but hdmi is noticable better than other connections and I tried them.) Using the Comcast box to go to 480P is not great, the picture being stretched bugs me (but nobody else.) I find Zoom preferable, but annoying to have to unzoom when you go to HD wide-screen. I'm still going to call Dell again and see what they have to say, last time I called I hung up before I talked to a technician...

Speaking for myself, I would buy it again. Nothing else I checked out had the same features for the same price plus warranty. HD is awesome, truely awesome. SD is crap in comparison, but thats not the TV's fault. All the problems with black colors and such I read are invisible to me. Don't doubt others may see things I don't, but nobody who has seen my set has anything but compliments and praise (and most have DLP's or other brand of plasma's.)

The wide setting not filling the screen is annoying when hooked up to HDMI (but hdmi is noticable better than other connections and I tried them.) Using the Comcast box to go to 480P is not great, the picture being stretched bugs me (but nobody else.) I find Zoom preferable, but annoying to have to unzoom when you go to HD wide-screen. I'm still going to call Dell again and see what they have to say, last time I called I hung up before I talked to a technician...

Does nothing happen when you select "Wide" on the HDMI input? I plan on hooking my cable box up via HDMI so this is something I am concerned with.

Thanks

Does nothing happen when you select "Wide" on the HDMI input? I plan on hooking my cable box up via HDMI so this is something I am concerned with.

Thanks

It's just like ZZen said. Wide, Standard, and Full Screen are all the same when your hooked up HDMI to the Comcast box (Motorola, dual tuner DVR for me.) So you can run Standard and have block boxes R/L on SD (and HD thats not wide screen) but HD wide screen is fine. Or you can Zoom on SD (and chop of a little on top/bottom but it's not stretched and distored) then hopefully remember to unzoom when you go back to HD Wide screen picture.

Wide setting kind of does what Comcast 480P does by stretch (Comast box also has a stretch mode, but I can't tell much difference between it and 480P for STD.) When your not hooked up HDMI it looks to me like Dell Wide stretches the edges, but not the middle. You notice it on items that scroll at the bottom of the screen.

But to be honest, with local channels on HD, ESPN, and pay channels on HD, I am finding I don't even go to SD channels much anymore. Kids do for cartoons, but letter boxing or zoom is fine there.

Like I said, I still plan to talk to Dell about it. Would be nice to go to Wide and leave it alone and have no letter boxing and side stretch without middle stretch.

So, all of you that have this TV....Would you recommend it to someone else or no? And why?

I've been keeping an eye on this thread, but now that people have had it for a few weeks I'm really curious as to what the final opinions are.

Thanks

We are keeping ours. We solved any DVD playback issues we had by getting a Panasonic S77 upconverting DVD and dialing the brightness WAY down (like to 25 or so). The satellite HD signal was providing a superb picture, so we knew any problems were related to scaling or connections. We were told by a technician at a local (and reputable) audio shop that the Dell's do not do a good job of upscaling a 480 source. Maybe that's one way they keep their price so low. That's tough to argue with after seeing how much difference the S77 made. It is like night and day. We have gone from being ready to ship the Dell back to being very pleased. I cannot overstate the brightness issue too strongly. Maybe 25 on a scale that goes to 100 "sounds too low" but it is giving us excellent results through an HDMI-HDMI interface and a 720p setting (1080i is virtually indistinguishable). DVD's that were unwatchable on our existing 480p Panasonic and Toshiba players now look incredible. We have gone from being very stressed (bordering on panic) to being quite comfortable and pleased with a major purchase. I would have no hesitation recommending the set to anyone, given the provisos I mentioned. The only annoyance left now is that the signal occasionally clips out from the sat box (Expressvu 6100) to the HDMI on the Dell. The 6100 is a DVI, and since we have no other connection problems (particularly with the HDMI-HDMI interface from S77 player to Dell) I can only assume it is the DVI-HDMI cabling or interface that is causing problems. It is not frequent and I will replace my cable to see if that solves it. It almost seems as though the HDMI end is detecting a weak signal from the source every so often and cuts out. Beyond that, we are happy. I hope others having problems have a happy outcome as well. Do not be afraid to dial that brightness down - and get a good upconverting DVD player. The posterization is quite likely the result of poor upscaling by the Dell, and a brightness setting that is simply overamplifying noise that is already present in the DVD source material. Just for kicks we threw Madagascar on last night. I can't say that I have seen a better plasma display.

I have no problems with mine. Maybe I'm just not the videophile that others are.

[QUOTE=Terrain]We are keeping ours. We solved any DVD playback issues we had by getting a Panasonic S77 upconverting DVD and dialing the brightness WAY down (like to 25 or so).

Glad you are pleased with your set adjustments.........

Another cable will not help the clipping issue, i tried that. You need a box with a hdmi port.

25 as a brightness setting. On DVD content maybe, ,,,but when i get down to around 35 or so thru STB, detail loss is unexceptable. (Have not tried that low viewing DVD content though.)

Have not even calibrated the dvd yet. Still trying to get the 1st problem corrected, with no luck at all. Just trade off 1 problem for another............

So far for me..............
I would not recommend this set to a soul..............

74Capri -

I can't emphasise enough how much improved things were when we plugged in the Panasonic S77 player through HDMI. It seems pretty clear to me that whatever internals the Dell uses to upconvert when left to do so on its own are not great. That may be a corner cut to keep the price down. For the same money I paid for it, I couldn't even get a 42" Panny or Hitachi or Pioneer up here - much less a 50". We did have to replace the factory HDMI cable that came with the S77 today. While the improvement over the original two 480p players we had was tremendous, direct comparisons made today with an Hitachi and Panasonic at Bleeker's showed the Dell still somewhat lacking in PQ on the DVD front. They suggested replacing that flimsy cable asap and trying a higher quality one. We did - and the DVD PQ is now easily on par with the Hitachi, and only slightly less impressive than the Panny 50" (which carries a $6000 price tag in Canada). I suspect you are dead right about the DVI-HDMI clipping problem. We have used the HDMI-HDMI connection from DVD for several hours without a problem. When Bell releases a sat receiver with HDMI our problem there should be solved. As an update on the brightness level, we found we could run it back into the 35-40 range today after replacing the HDMI cable. When running the satellite receiver we had always been in the 40 range anyway. I am baffled by your problems with HD signal PQ. Ours has been outstanding right out of the box - and it was only the DVD side of things that was problematic. SD has never been great, and never will be. You should pick up a decent upconverting DVD player and give it a try. You can always return it if it doesn't solve that side of the equation for you. The very problems you describe with PQ we had too. They are now gone.

I was not referring to the HD content.

I never really had a problem with that.........

of course, i'm talking about sd content, If the scenes are not on the brighter side,
the pq, as in dark areas are terrible with noise.

I know, i know everyone is blaming the signal source.........
I know it's part of the problem, But,,,,,,

Sometimes, i just don't buy it..........

I saw a scene the other day, where it was split. Meaning left side darker than right side.

A guy was looking out his front door. Left side looked terrible, right side was crystal clear?
Is that signal source also??? It's in the same shot on a good digital feed.

This has always been my point..............

If it is not in HD, it's crappy.........

And what's even worse,,,,,,,,,,thier is a strong possibility, that you may not
even be able to calibrate this set properly, thru the service menu.

My Dell has the same purple dark end that my current model year Samsung 42" exhibits. Video black appears to be black but 1-4% above black immediately goes purple.

I've seen this too, and I'm starting to think it's a bigger problem than I did at first. In fact, I think it explains why, after getting the contrast and brightness set up with DVE, I always end up needing to increase the brightness to achieve decent picture quality.

The opening scenes of Master and Commander are a perfect example. With "DVE correct" brightness and contrast, the swinging hammocks have this purple tinge that just looks wrong. Same with the scene a few seconds later where the sailor reaches into the chicken coop and pulls out a bird - the black inside of the cage is reddish purple. I have to increase the brightness quite a bit to fix this. Once I do, the rest of the movie shows good to excellent detail, albeit with blacks that aren't exactly black.

What I realized today is increasing brightness has the effect of pushing the "red band" off the black end of the grayscale. I think if we could figure out how to get rid of that red band, the lower end of the grayscale would sort itself out nicely.

Now, here's a weird thing: the red tinge in the MaC scenes described above is visible whether I'm using the component or HDMI inputs (though it's a bit more pronounced via component). The red band is also very visible in the bar above black on the DVE Gray Ramp patterns, but ONLY via component inputs. The red band is NOT noticable when I play the test pattern via the HDMI input.

Interesting........

Dell has pulled,,,,,,,,,,,,,all thier TV's from the UK website............

I hear it may be due to the tremendous amount of returns...........................................
Maybe a huge recall coming????

Even though, this is across the pond.........
Just shows you the build quality................

It can't be good.....................

I was not referring to the HD content.

I never really had a problem with that.........

of course, i'm talking about sd content, If the scenes are not on the brighter side,
the pq, as in dark areas are terrible with noise.

I know, i know everyone is blaming the signal source.........
I know it's part of the problem, But,,,,,,

Sometimes, i just don't buy it..........

I saw a scene the other day, where it was split. Meaning left side darker than right side.

A guy was looking out his front door. Left side looked terrible, right side was crystal clear?
Is that signal source also??? It's in the same shot on a good digital feed.

This has always been my point..............

If it is not in HD, it's crappy.........

And what's even worse,,,,,,,,,,thier is a strong possibility, that you may not
even be able to calibrate this set properly, thru the service menu.

Have you actually compared the PQ of this TV with an SD signal against other plasmas? If your HD signal is returning good PQ then it tells you that the source is the problem.

I have owned this TV for 3 days now. I bought it from Costco.com.

After some tweaking, I have it looking pretty good in both light and dark scenes. The only SD material I watch is DVD. I usually only watch HD.

I paid just as much for an HD CRT RPTV back in 2000 and I had more problems tweaking that set than this one. It had similar problems where bright scenes looked excellent, but dark scenes were just ok.

It would be nice if the TV was perfect given the amount of money that we have to shell out for these things, but I already went through this in 2000, so I knew I wasn't going to achieve perfection in advance.

What I am having problems with is HDMI. I have a Samsung HDMI DVD Player, a Sony HDMI HD-DVR, and an LG DVI HD-DVR.

The Samsung DVD player seems to be working fine using HDMI. Similar to what was mentioned above I cannot tell a difference between setting the DVD player on 720p or 1080i. I can see a difference if the DVD player is on 480p.

I tried the Sony HD-DVR with HDMI but the picture was jittery no matter what setting it was on. I am now using it with HD Component and it is fine.

I also tried the LG HD-DVR using DVI->HDMI and I had the exact same clipping/flickering problem described above. I am using this through HD component now as well.

Overall, I am pleased. This set is miles better than my old HD CRT RPTV. I wasn't expecting perfection. I have a feeling these HDMI issues may not be Dell's fault after seeing some other threads on here discussing HDMI problems.

I also love the sleek design too!!

I was not referring to the HD content.

I never really had a problem with that.........

of course, i'm talking about sd content, If the scenes are not on the brighter side,
the pq, as in dark areas are terrible with noise.

I know, i know everyone is blaming the signal source.........
I know it's part of the problem, But,,,,,,

Sometimes, i just don't buy it..........

I saw a scene the other day, where it was split. Meaning left side darker than right side.

A guy was looking out his front door. Left side looked terrible, right side was crystal clear?
Is that signal source also??? It's in the same shot on a good digital feed.

This has always been my point..............

If it is not in HD, it's crappy.........

And what's even worse,,,,,,,,,,thier is a strong possibility, that you may not
even be able to calibrate this set properly, thru the service menu.

Capri, why don't you just return the set? You're posts reek enormously of buyers remorse and anxiety and I'm quite certain at this point nothing will be changing your mind.

You owe it to your sanity.

(By the way, do certain keys on your keyboard stick?)

seriously.

if you're not past your 21 days, do a return.

you do not seem to be stoked about your set.

I've had my w4201c for 11 days now, definitely going to keep it. this is my first plasma but i'm a pretty picky person. there's been some quirks with the tv but after playing around with settings and different cables, I'm very happy with it. price, aesthetics, features and picture quality are great. Feeling quite secure with my 1 year on-site exchange warranty too (will probably extend when it gets close).

I'm hoping Bell Expressvu has an HDMI out box soon (I'm using the 6100 too) for the non-PVR ones too. DVI proved problematic (screen blacks out occasionally) and PQ actually looked worse than component which no amount of picture settings could correct (I tried 3 different brands of DVI-HDMI cables, including the expensive Monster cable).

DVD looks great now after I received my HDMI cable from monoprice, 1080i and 720p are substantially better than 480p. I hate stretching too but once I'm past my 100 hours burn-in I will start leaving it in letterbox for normal SD channels most of the time. All I need for pure bliss now is a PS3...

Anyone can give me insight how the digital or coaxial audio outputs on the tv can be useful? Only ATSC tuning useful I'm betting, otherwise why run it into the tv first and then back out to an audio receiver?

74Capri, all of your posts have been bashing Dell and their customer service. Now you have resorted to posting rumours and speculations... E39 is right, you might as well return your set and find something you like then. Just like a panasonic plasma isn't right for everyone, a dell plasma might not fit your needs and tastes either.

Terrain - you said you replaced the S77 HDMI cable with a higher-end/quality one and felt the picture was better. It is surely a placebo effect since it is digital signal. Just 1's and 0's that are being passed. You either get a picture or you don't (with a bad cable). As long as the cable gives a picture (passes the digital signal) then the picture will be identical no matter if the HDMI cable cost 10 dollars or 200 dollars.

Terrain - you said you replaced the S77 HDMI cable with a higher-end/quality one and felt the picture was better. It is surely a placebo effect since it is digital signal. Just 1's and 0's that are being passed. You either get a picture or you don't (with a bad cable). As long as the cable gives a picture (passes the digital signal) then the picture will be identical no matter if the HDMI cable cost 10 dollars or 200 dollars.

Definitely incorrect. My wife and I both watched this thing intensely with both cables on the weekend and there was a huge difference in PQ. We even documented scenes in several problematic DVD's that caused grief with the factory cable, that were clearly superior with the new wiring. Maybe if it is simply a matter of 1's and 0's then you can explain why Panasonic's very own included cable returns an error message (U70-1) for so many people - and the higher end cable did not. Maybe your idea works in theory - but not in this real-world case. Seeing is believing and no-one is going to tell me that it is a "placebo effect".

It's just like ZZen said. Wide, Standard, and Full Screen are all the same when your hooked up HDMI to the Comcast box (Motorola, dual tuner DVR for me.) So you can run Standard and have block boxes R/L on SD (and HD thats not wide screen) but HD wide screen is fine. Or you can Zoom on SD (and chop of a little on top/bottom but it's not stretched and distored) then hopefully remember to unzoom when you go back to HD Wide screen picture.

Like I said, I still plan to talk to Dell about it. Would be nice to go to Wide and leave it alone and have no letter boxing and side stretch without middle stretch.

Does anyone else have this issue? Does your WIDE setting do anything different than Standard or Full Screen? Am wondering if I have a defective set, if I don't have the Comcast box set correctly, or if that's just the way it is with HDMI from Cablebox on this set?

but he is correct on dell pulling tvs off their website. wonder whats up? I have been looking at the 50 also

seriously.

if you're not past your 21 days, do a return.

you do not seem to be stoked about your set.

21 days: From ship date, to arrival, to install, which i paid for.
Left me 6 days and cable took another 4. Wow 2 days too get to know
the set, cipher through all the cable possibilities, calibration, etc.

Not 21 days at all and i'm not dropping another chunk to send it back.

So i'm stuck with it & trying to get the best pic possible for my $$$

Now you have resorted to posting rumours and speculations...

No Rumor.

Just stating what i saw on the Dell forum.

Simple as that.

Does anyone else have this issue? Does your WIDE setting do anything different than Standard or Full Screen? Am wondering if I have a defective set, if I don't have the Comcast box set correctly, or if that's just the way it is with HDMI from Cablebox on this set?
I definitely have this behavior, and I had it on my first W5001C as well. It happens on HDMI and component - don't know about the other inputs because I don't use them. (Well, I tried to connect my AV receiver to one of the S-Video inputs so I can use the receivers on-screen display, but ran smack into the "flashing screen" problem that Dell acknowledges in their user forums).

BTW, this set isn't perfect, but I REALLY want to keep it. If I can figure out how to get around the gamma/grayscale/redness issues I've been posting about, I'll be it's biggest proponent. I'm not giving up yet, and as long as there are things to try, I'll try them.

Now you have resorted to posting rumours and speculations...

No Rumor.

Just stating what i saw on the Dell forum.

Simple as that.

But don't you post on the Dell forum under another username, and despite seeing a reference to them pulling the sets because they don't have enough global supply, you chose not to mention it here? ;)

Are you actually working for Panasonic? :D

[QUOTE=FlyBack1]I definitely have this behavior, and I had it on my first W5001C as well. It happens on HDMI and component - don't know about the other inputs because I don't use them. (Well, I tried to connect my AV receiver to one of the S-Video inputs so I can use the receivers on-screen display, but ran smack into the "flashing screen" problem that Dell acknowledges in their user forums).
QUOTE]

Do you have a Comcast box? Either way, did you call Dell (if so, what did they say to you?)

I tried setting the Comcast box to 480P, and SD channels are indeed wide that way but really streatched and pretty poor quality (seems better to just leave it to Off and zoom the TV.)

I'm getting rid of mine...3 sets later, I am disapointed with the blacks. I thought it was an upgrade, but turned out to be a down grade in terms of PQ & dark colors over my Sharp LCD.

...with that said I have a brand new in box - from last exchange (not even opened) w5001c. If anyone wants to buy it, drop me a quick note.

Do you have a Comcast box? Either way, did you call Dell (if so, what did they say to you?)
No, I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD. I haven't tried to force it to 480p, but now that I think about it I believe I know how to do that. I'll try it tonight.

I've called (actually, chatted with) Dell about several things, but not this yet. My last session with them was about the flashing screen problem, and they were all set to send me YET ANOTHER set. I asked them to hold off, and told them that Dell has acknowledged the problem (via the moderator on the LCD TV and Plasma TV forum on the Dell Community Forums) and are reportedly working on a fix. After 10 minutes, the guy came back and said that he had talked to his "technical support manager", who confirmed that there is indeed a "patch" on the way. He told me to contact them in two weeks. When I asked if he could give me a "patch number" or some other concrete reference to the specific fix we were talking about, he said "just ask for the patch". Sigh. My confidence isn't high, but I'll give them a fair shake.

No, I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD. I haven't tried to force it to 480p, but now that I think about it I believe I know how to do that. I'll try it tonight.

I've called (actually, chatted with) Dell about several things, but not this yet. My last session with them was about the flashing screen problem, and they were all set to send me YET ANOTHER set. I asked them to hold off, and told them that Dell has acknowledged the problem (via the moderator on the LCD TV and Plasma TV forum on the Dell Community Forums) and are reportedly working on a fix. After 10 minutes, the guy came back and said that he had talked to his "technical support manager", who confirmed that there is indeed a "patch" on the way. He told me to contact them in two weeks. When I asked if he could give me a "patch number" or some other concrete reference to the specific fix we were talking about, he said "just ask for the patch". Sigh. My confidence isn't high, but I'll give them a fair shake.

Interesting. In other forum's they say this is the way it's supposed to be, black bars on the side when sending 480i to HD. Even the documentation from Motroloa says that's normal. Motorola Zoom and Motorola 480P both make my 480i wide screen, don't chop off top/bottom/sides, but it's distorted. Leaving it off and using Dell zoom chops, but it's not distorted. I am only concerned because my friends Dell 42" is hooked up via coax, not hdmi, and it's stretched but not distorted in the middle (is some on the sides.)

Wonder if Dell is blowing smoke with a 'patch'. Wonder how you would even install a patch!

Did you get the color temperature problem fix? I am having the same problem and it is very annoying.

TIA

Hi Folks. This is a great thread.

I received my W5001C about 10 days ago, and have for the most part been extremely pleased. It's probably not perfect, but I'm not sure perfection is to be had for less than silly money. Here's my setup:

Scientific Atlanta 8300HD STB/DVR via component
Denon DVD-2910 via HDMI and component

I do notice some posterization, on both HD/cable and DVD, but I can't decide whether it's the source or the set. On DVD, adjusting the brightness and contrast of the subject input helps a lot, but in cases where it's really bad, does not eliminate it altogether. I have not (yet) tried adjusting the video parameters on my 2910, which I can do, but I'd like to think I don't have to do that.

I've done a fair bit of switching back and forth between HDMI and component connections on my DVD player. They are definitely different, and in all cases that I've noticed the HDMI looks better. However, since all of my comparison has been using two particular passages from The Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers, my current "sample" is pretty small.

I calibrated my TV's video setup using DVE, and here's where I'm at on the HDMI inputs:

Brightness: 40
Contrast: 29 (though I increased this to 40 while viewing Two Towers)
Sharpness: 0
Color temperature: Natural (see note below)
Color tint: 49
Color saturation: 54

It's somewhat different on the component inputs:

Brightness: 30
Contrast: 41 (though I increased this to 40 while viewing Two Towers)
Sharpness: 0
Color temperature: Natural (see note below)
Color tint: 51
Color saturation: 55

Note on Color Temperature: The default setting is Blue; other choices are Natural, Normal, and Red. I always select Natural (because it looks the most "gray"), but the setting does not seem to always stick. Specifically, after setting the color temp to "natural", if I ever select one of the factory-set picture settings (e.g., Movie, Sports, Weak Signal, Multimedia), the color temp on the Personal setting goes back to Blue. Has anyone else seen this problem? It happens on both HDMI and Component.

While reading the discussions of posterization in this thread, I keep hoping to see someone indicate a specific seen that they're seeing the problem on. So, here's mine:

Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers, Full Screen (sigh) Edition
Chapter 34, Aragorn's Return (times are chapter elapsed)

0:00:11 Some posterization of the dark sky. Orc army looks pretty good - spears are visible and show movement.
0:00:26 Posterization (lack of detail) on Aragorn's horse as he rides past (Aragorn and the horse sort of blend together). This seen passes quickly, so it's not very noticable
0:02:20 Aragorn enters through the castle doors, extreme backlighting. Not much detail to be seen on his clothes
0:02:52 The far wall and ceiling, especially around the arches at the top of the screen, are severely posterized.
0:03:00 Theodan's red tunic (lower left of screen) is severely posterized

Chapter 39, The Battle of the Hornburg

0:00:23 - The night sky and the hills in the distance are posterized in the extreme.
0:00:31 - As Gimli says "You could have picked a better spot", the backlit, smokey air in this sequence of scenes is mildly to severely posterized.
0:00:49 - Back to the advancing army. Initially, the posterization isn't nearly as bad as before. Then, there's a flash of lightning which lights up the hills in the background nicely, but then the sky and terrain at the horizon dissolves into a horizontally streaked mess.

When I first started looking for posterization in this DVD (thanks a lot, Calim!), I found these passages because they had lots of movement and dark scenes. Initially, it looked awful, but after tweaking the brightness, contrast, tint and saturation settings on the display it looks way better.

If any of you other W5001C owners can compare what you see with this, it would be interesting.

Finally, a few other comments on the set:

* It seems to be extremely well-built. I looked at the new Maxent 50" at Best Buy and decided against it because it just didn't seem that ... substantial. The Dell definitely does.
* The speakers sound VERY good. Except when watching 5.1 material, I use them exclusively. They mount easily to the sides of the set, or can be mounted on their own very sturdy/heavy stands that match the TV stand.
* As others have reported, the remote is nice but the blue backlighting stays on for a couple seconds at the most - 10 would be more like it.

As negative as my descriptions above might seem, I love this set. It looks great in my family room, and HD programming is truly amazing. The only way it goes back to Costco is if it breaks in the next three years. Super Bowl party at my house!

I just got my Dell 50" Plasma and it is hooked up with a Comcast 3412 box through HDMI cables. When watch an HD channel and switch to another HD channel there are no problems. When I switch from an HD channel to a SD channel the screen blink a little and the "HDMI" letters show up on the top-center of the screen. Does any else have this problem? Is this normal?

Thanks!

my 42" would show the input type (e.g. HDMI) when I changed the channels with the comcast box.

kind of annoyed me, but I never figured out how to make it stop.

We've had our W5001C for just over a week and I cannot get past the "black crush" effect that I see in certain DVD scenes. I've watch playoff football in HD, which looks phenomenal on this television, but when we watch 24, some of the darker screens, the hair washes out in a big cloud of black. I've adjusted to many of the settings posted in this thread, but the high brightness washes out colors too much for my liking.

Sigh... the search continues. :(

It seems like the black crush problem on this set might be related to circuitry to upconvert the signal. Does anyone know if is possibly related to the Pixelworks DNX? Is there any chance this is going to turn out to be another dnie? Is there any way to change some of the processing on this TV?

Did you get the color temperature problem fix? I am having the same problem and it is very annoying.
No. In fact, I'm on my second set, and it has the problem too. It doesn't bother me that much since I don't really like any of the factory picture presets. But it's definitely a bug.

It seems like the black crush problem on this set might be related to circuitry to upconvert the signal. Does anyone know if is possibly related to the Pixelworks DNX? Is there any chance this is going to turn out to be another dnie? Is there any way to change some of the processing on this TV?
No idea whether the PW chipset has anything to do with this. Given that Michael TLV has observed the purple tinge in the "just above black" level on his Samsung plasma, and that the Dell reputedly uses Samsung glass, I'd tend to bet on it being a characteristic of the panel, not the chipset. But that's just a very uneducated guess.

It sure would be cool if a representative of Dell (or the OEM, or a "Dell Certified" technician) would step up and help us sort some of these things out.

Terrain - re: the HDMi cable, well the Panny cheap cable is defective, or is of so poor quality that it is not passing the signal properly (ie: defective) . My "theory" still stands re: non-defective 10 dollar cables compared to 100 HDMI cables.

TechieFan - I also want to be able to select a properly functioning "wide" mode aspect (no middle stretch, side stretch only) for SD channels. As you and some others have noticed, on comp and HDMI the WIDE setting is the sames as full and standard. True if you let the cable box upconvert 480 SD channels to 720/1080 then you can leave the TV at Standard and Sd will always have side bars. The problem is that the SD channels look MUCH better if you let the cable box just send it to the TV at 480, then let the TV upconvert it. When doing that, though, the WIDE mode doesn't work properly and you always have to manually switch aspects to 4:3 (or zoom), the back to Standard for an HD channel. Dell should do two things in this case (for HDMI and comp inputs), let the Wide mode work properly on 480 signals over those inputs, AND let the TV remember the last aspect for each resolution.

Re: Color Temp glitches - my 37" seems to have a different color temp glitch. The personal setting will always remember the temp I choose even when switching to the other presets and back. However, I noticed that the temp I choose for Personal get carried over to the presets, so all the presets now have whatever temp I chose for personal (Natural).

ZZen-

You didn't qualify it as "non-defective" the first time. Perhaps you should have done so. We were told that the shielding on the stock Panasonic cable is likely subpar. Short of putting up some high-res digital pics of the same scenes that showed dramatic improvement with the new cable, I don't know what to tell you. I do know that all I stated was that there was a huge improvement that was quite visible with a new cable by two very sane and rational people. I never claimed a different low-dollar cable wouldn't yield good results - I said that the cable that was provided was obviously problematic - and that is hardly a "placebo effect".

It seems like the black crush problem on this set might be related to circuitry to upconvert the signal. Does anyone know if is possibly related to the Pixelworks DNX? Is there any chance this is going to turn out to be another dnie? Is there any way to change some of the processing on this TV?

That's the only conclusion I can draw as well. 480p DVD players (two used) looked like garbage. Good quality upconverting one looks great (with good cable :D). SD looks like garbage, HD looks great. Again, no upconverting needed for HD signal. There's no question that whatever processing that is used to upconvert signals is of horrendous quality. There are workarounds, but I understand why people may object to spending several extra hundred's of $$$ on an additonal DVD player and the requisite cables simply to get what should be delivered out-of-the-box by a $4000 television. If you're stuck with it because of return policy, the DVD swap and HD viewing will solve a lot of the trouble. It is certainly capable of an incredible picture with the right inputs.

There are workarounds, but I understand why people may object to spending several extra hundred's of $$$ on an additonal DVD player and the requisite cables simply to get what should be delivered out-of-the-box by a $4000 television. If you're stuck with it because of return policy, the DVD swap and HD viewing will solve a lot of the trouble.

I agree. I purchased a DVDO iScan HD and believe it or not, SD looks good now also. I have completely eliminated the use of the sub par Video Processor in the Television and my other equipment, DVD Player and Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver. I do realize that few would spend another $2,200 (Canadian) on a Video Scaler but I have got rid of all of the black crushing/posterization and Compression blocking "latter was only present in SD". Setting the Grey Scale ,Colour Scale and Hue/Saturation are the most important things with this set or any. My Black levels are black (no purple or red banding) and colours are Vibrant. We used two versions of Ovation software test patterns (AVIA and Sound and Vision) and DVE to get a good base and then tweaked each device for a perfect mix from there.

Do note that with the HDMI inputs the Hue and Saturation settings are only accesable in the "Service Menu" under chip settings I only used the service menu while making my adjustments (Sharpness is only in the "Standard" menu not an option in the "Service" menu). Two of my inputs are screwed up and I can't stress enough DO NOT HIT "OK" WHILE ON THE "ADC CALIBRATION" SETTING OPTION IN THE SERVICE MENU. Learn from my mistake. Also write down the base settings so you can revert back to them if need be before you start adjusting. This set is a strong performer and when my replacement arrives I will keep it, providing nothing is wrong with it. :D

I do have the screen sizing issues that all of you have but I use tha zoom and aspect ratio adjustments in the iScan and this is a non-issue for me. The iScan remembers the setting for each source DVD,Cable/Sat or whatever it may be.


My 2 cents as always.

Cx

hmmm, so a video scaler is needed to get the picture to look right since apparently the signal processing in the set itself stinks...

with a DVDO scaler running $1500+usd ...aren't we getting into the bottom end range of a pioneer elite or a fujitsu?

Greetings

Yes ... but the DVDO is also superior to those units as well.

It's a bargain priced TV ... We know that going in ...
We find it actually has bargain priced performance ... although we hoped for more
We complain because of that?

Regards

Terrain - fair enough. I probably jumped the gun a little as there are many posts on various AVS forums by those who think a Monster HDMI cable will give them a better picture than a 10 dollar monoprice HDMI cable. So irrespective of price the key is just having a good quality cable. Seems the Panny cable is not good quality at all which I will take into consideration as I look into getting an upconverting DVD player. Later!

hmmm, so a video scaler is needed to get the picture to look right since apparently the signal processing in the set itself stinks...

with a DVDO scaler running $1500+usd ...aren't we getting into the bottom end range of a pioneer elite or a fujitsu?


As an alternative, you could go with an HTPC. I read an article the other day (I think it was the "Secrets" website) on building your own HTPC and the author claimed that it far outperformed his iScan DVDO. It wouldn't cost as much as the iScan (especially if you can use/upgrade an existing PC that you own), plus, you would get the added benefits of DVR, not to mention all of the functionality of a computer.

If anyone is interested in the link they can PM me.

hmmm, so a video scaler is needed to get the picture to look right since apparently the signal processing in the set itself stinks...

with a DVDO scaler running $1500+usd ...aren't we getting into the bottom end range of a pioneer elite or a fujitsu?

The MSRP on that unit is around $1200 USD - not $1500+. Surely it is available at less $1200 (not that you should have to buy it, mind you). Some of our SD is passable, some not. The HD signal obviously doesn't need any conversion/scaling and in my opinion is pretty good. The scaling issue obviously also applies to 480p DVD source as well. A decent $300(CDN) upconverter with HDMI like the Panasonic S77 solves that. I honestly don't know how well the upconversion is done on other plasmas/LCD's/RP's - especially for SD source. Most of the SD I see on these big, newer tech TV's (even high end ones) is crappy. I knew that going in. If anyone can chime in and describe how a Panny or Pio or Hitachi would handle an upconversion for SD or 480p DVD relative to the Dell it would be helpful.

Terrain - fair enough. I probably jumped the gun a little as there are many posts on various AVS forums by those who think a Monster HDMI cable will give them a better picture than a 10 dollar monoprice HDMI cable. So irrespective of price the key is just having a good quality cable. Seems the Panny cable is not good quality at all which I will take into consideration as I look into getting an upconverting DVD player. Later!

No worries! We were told by the shop that sold us the new cable that they replaced virtually every one that went out with the S77. Part of the attraction to the player is that the HDMI cabling was included. Fat lot of good that does anyone. :mad:

I agree. I purchased a DVDO iScan HD and believe it or not, SD looks good now also. I have completely eliminated the use of the sub par Video Processor in the Television and my other equipment, DVD Player and Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver.

Cx, Can you let us know exactly how you have everything hooked up? I'm interested in how you connect (HDMI, component, etc) and what signal (480i, 720p, etc) is being passed between each piece of equipment.

Thanks...

Steve.

Ok, maybe I'm way off already, but I think the problem with this TV is that the way it handles NTSC singnals sucks. I say this mainly because using my Samsung HD841 over component in 480i/p results in noisy UGLY video that I don't get on any other set I own (HD or SD). When I applied the HDCP hack and began outputting in 720p, the image quality drastically improved (Where as I see virtually no better image quality when used on my two CRT HD sets). My assumption is that the DVD player outputs an ATSC singnal when converting to 720p/1080i.

My only real problem with this set has been when watching 24 in HD, it seems like all of the scenes with the president involved have a lot of reddishness in the lighter shadows. I haven't seen this particular effect in any other programming I've watched so I'm inclided to believe this is just an issue of a style choice looking like poor PQ.

Cx, Can you let us know exactly how you have everything hooked up? I'm interested in how you connect (HDMI, component, etc) and what signal (480i, 720p, etc) is being passed between each piece of equipment.



Here it is, DVD player is feeding the iScan via Cinema Quest component cables (480i). Satalite receiver is feeding iScan via Cinema Quest S-Video cable.
iScan is then feedind the Plasma via Cinema Quest DVI-HDMI adapter and Cinema Quest HDMI cable. The iSan is sending a resolution of 1366x768 @ 58.99hrz. I also have a VGA breakout to component (iScan can send sinc on component via VGA) SD material tends to look a touch better via VGA but that's getting down right picky. I have the VGA breakout to component because I don't like the screen sizing options and other crap. Just don't like the lack of adjustment via VGA. Again resolution is 1366x768 @ 58.99hrz

I'm at work for the moment so I can't provide exact colour settings and the like but will when I get home if you would like.

The way I see it I got the set at a hell of a price and even with the added cost of a scaler I still am ahead of the game compared to a 50" Elite or Panny in Canada. I could get a Phillips for about the price I have paid fot this equipment and I now have picture quality rivaling the Elite if not better. The installer at the local shop said that he was impressed by the picture quality and said I didn't go wrong for the price. No complaints now, I'm happy!!!!

Cx

As an alternative, you could go with an HTPC. I read an article the other day (I think it was the "Secrets" website) on building your own HTPC and the author claimed that it far outperformed his iScan DVDO. It wouldn't cost as much as the iScan (especially if you can use/upgrade an existing PC that you own), plus, you would get the added benefits of DVR, not to mention all of the functionality of a computer.

Yes, an HTPC is also an option . TheaterTek DVD or ZoomPlayer Pro with a nice app called FFDshow you can acheive great results. To use FFDshow to it's full potential you need at least a P4 2.0Ghz cpu and 512mb of ram. I have tried with a 2.3Ghz Celeron but could not reach the same results of my P4 3.0Ghz. You can get by with a Radeon 9250 agp or pci video card and with an M audio Revolution (I think)sound card or MOBO w spdif you get great sound too. To match the Display you need to use an app called powerstrip and setup custom timings. Ulimately you want to set native resolution as to bypass the displays internal processor. A lot of good info on this and other HTPC stuff is in this very forum. I was contemplating doing a Stanalone HTPC but opted against it for simplicity reasons. The cost for the HTPC I was looking at building was close to that of the iScan, but that was a bells and wistles 1TB raid media server also. Nice to have all of my 300 plus DVDs on the Hard Drives and at the finger tips. Medio has an awesome option to import DVD Information and launch the movie by clicking on the cover.

An option worth looking into if you are interested in PC's and can assemble yourself. No good comercial options out a present time in my opinion. I'm getting off track now so I'll stop:D

My 2 Cents on HTPC.

Cx

Cx, thanks muchly for the details. I don't need colour settings (no plasma), but I'm sure others will be interested.

I wonder how the iScan would look paired up with one of the really cheap plasmas, like a Maxent or Vizio? Seems odd even to be thinking about it, but...

Steve.

While I cringe at the thought of sinking hundreds more into my rig, I just might be willing to do it if it's really as good as CxTurbo says it is. Can someone explain to me how black crush and the "purplish low end" can be cured by a better video processor?

Is it true that the only way to defeat the Dell's Pixelworks scaler/deinterlacer is to provide a signal that exactly matches the display's native resolution? I'm wondering if either my DVD player or my cable box would do a better job of video processing, but since neither 720p or 1080i exactly matches the 1366x768 resolution of the set, I'm guessing the resulting picture wouldn't quite "fit". But, 720p might be close enough so that I could tell whether the grayscale problems resolve satisfactorily with Pixelworks out of the way.

No, I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD. I haven't tried to force it to 480p, but now that I think about it I believe I know how to do that. I'll try it tonight.

I've called (actually, chatted with) Dell about several things, but not this yet. My last session with them was about the flashing screen problem, and they were all set to send me YET ANOTHER set. I asked them to hold off, and told them that Dell has acknowledged the problem (via the moderator on the LCD TV and Plasma TV forum on the Dell Community Forums) and are reportedly working on a fix. After 10 minutes, the guy came back and said that he had talked to his "technical support manager", who confirmed that there is indeed a "patch" on the way. He told me to contact them in two weeks. When I asked if he could give me a "patch number" or some other concrete reference to the specific fix we were talking about, he said "just ask for the patch". Sigh. My confidence isn't high, but I'll give them a fair shake.

I called Dell (several times) and everyone said this was the first they had heard about it. The last time I called today they said their help desk notes indicate there is a known issue with the Std/Full/Wide settings on this set, but it's an incompatibility with certain STB's. He said he would forward it on to others in tech support to reference the issue in more detail (and with the link on the Dell Community Support forum talking about how Wide does not work correctly (even if 480i is the incoming signal to the TV.)) Since we are on different STB boxes, wonder if there even is a box it DOES work with to give a non-linear stretch! Even analog input does not do it on mine (need to try Svideo.)

They said that just because my friends 42" Dell does do a non-linear stretch correctly it means nothing because it's built by a different manufacturer, and I can't argue with that.

My confidence isn't high either. Guess you live with letterbox or Zoom, and/or return the TV and get a Pannasonic. (But if their 'full' did not do it on my Comcast and Motroloa 6412 either, I would not be pleased. Debating how much I really want non-linear stretch and if its worth the difference in price between the Dell and Panasonic (assuming you can even get one.))

TechieFan,

That's bull from Dell. How do they explain the fact that this problem also happens using an OTA connection with the ATSC tuner (no STB involved)? :-(

Rich

TechieFan,

That's bull from Dell. How do they explain the fact that this problem also happens using an OTA connection with the ATSC tuner (no STB involved)? :-(

Rich

They couldn't. Nor do they have a 50" available to verify/investigate with I found out (at least not for the help desk people.) At least he said he was documenting everything and would forward it on to others in tech support with more time to investigate. Something tells me I'll never hear anything. Return it or live with it...

Very disappointing, as non-linear stretch beats the heck out of stretch or constantly zooming and unzooming if you prefer not to have black boxes.

Very disappointing, as non-linear stretch beats the heck out of stretch or constantly zooming and unzooming if you prefer not to have black boxes.

The non-linear stretch is one of the reasons I decided to get this TV. It is disappointing, but I wouldn't give up hope yet. The help desk people know absolutely nothing about what the tech people are doing. If Dell plans to stay in the TV businees, it would be foolish for them not to fix all the little problems that are found. For all we know, they're desperately trying to fix them as soon as possible, it's just taking a while. If I were them, I would wait and release all the changes at once in a single firmware release.

Rich

The non-linear stretch is one of the reasons I decided to get this TV. It is disappointing, but I wouldn't give up hope yet. The help desk people know absolutely nothing about what the tech people are doing. If Dell plans to stay in the TV businees, it would be foolish for them not to fix all the little problems that are found. For all we know, they're desperately trying to fix them as soon as possible, it's just taking a while. If I were them, I would wait and release all the changes at once in a single firmware release.

Rich

Would not say I have give up, but I am not optimistic. They said firmware updates are applied at the factory. While I'm sure that's right, I am guessing that they can push out firmware updates to the field too. But I think it takes a service call, and someone who knows what they are doing.

I'm more inclined to think they will just fix the issue going forward and too bad for those who bought their set before the problem was fixed. If I'm wrong, I'll definately report that here. Lord knows they have provided outstanding service on my XPS dual-core computer!

I'll probably keep the set, still have a couple of weeks to decide, but to me not having non-linear stretch is indeed a significant issue when you have hundreds of SD channels and 12 HD channels. I am trying to spend my time on the 12 and on up-converted DVD's, but part of that is because of this issue and my not wanting the SD black boxes on a brand new set or the desire to zoom/unzoom every channel change.

This isn't directly applicable to the non-linear stretch issue, but I've just seen a post on the Dell forum from someone who's due to have a tech visit to upgrade 4201C firmware for the DVI=>HDMI dropout problem. And the old W4200HD HDMI problem was also fixable by a field firmware upgrade. So they do happen.

Steve.

This isn't directly applicable to the non-linear stretch issue, but I've just seen a post on the Dell forum from someone who's due to have a tech visit to upgrade 4201C firmware for the DVI=>HDMI dropout problem. And the old W4200HD HDMI problem was also fixable by a field firmware upgrade. So they do happen.

Steve.

Good, makes me feel better. Thanks for letting me know about this. Now if they just look at it and come up with a fix. That's the primary reason I got a Dell, for their service and support. At least I have had good experience regarding PC's anyway.

Maybe I should be starting a new topic with this, but it seems this is becoming the official w5001c thread, so here goes.

I have been a bit perplexed by the black crush problem on my 5001 as well. At first I thought it was more an issue with input signal, but now I'm not so sure. Well, as luck would have it, I realized that today was exactly 21 days since my ship date (gulp!). I called Dell just to get an RMA number and at least start the process of a possible return. I was referred by the returns department to a special TV returns specialist who offered me a courtesy extension on the 21 days if I spoke with the tech support crew and if they could not resolve the problem to my satisfaction. I took her up on the offer, and she transferred me to a Plasma support specialist. Not being in front of the TV at the time, he created a case number and invited me to call back at my convenience, again restating that if they could not resolve my problem (including the shipment of a brand new - not reconditioned - set), I could return the TV for a full refund.

I am heartened by this because it seems that Dell is making a serious effort to try to resolve issues, and has effectively removed a serious stress component from the process (if they can't make me happy, they won't hold me to the set).

I think I have an opportunity with Dell to present some issues that may be of concern not only to me but to others here who are thinking of buying, have already bought, or are otherwise committed to this TV. If anyone has any thoughts on what to present in my discussions tomorrow afternoon, please let me know. The two big issues I see are:

1) the black/shadow crush thing - in certain darker scenes, the blacks look pixelated and contoured as if in 256 color mode - blotchy reds and greens are visible in the shadows.

2) the other issue of wide/zoom/full screen which I am not sure I completely understand, but (correct me if needed) seems that the full mode was supposed to be a non-linear stretch like the Panny but is actually not - ???

I welcome any comments or suggestions, and will update this board with any information I get from the Plasma support group at Dell.

dell's customer support rules in my experience.

but replacing the set may not do anything to make you happier.

one word of advice: if you think the issues are not set-dependent (i.e. ALL Dell's have the issue that bothers you), then don't let them send a replacement. I'm having some issues now because Dell began the replacement process, but I cancelled cuz I realized that my issues would be present with every set. Now every few days I'm getting a phone call about my "replacement set" that's coming! I don't want a replacement! I want them to take the TV away! It has been replaced by a NEC.

summary: see if they can resolve your issues. If they can't, do the return, not a replacement.

Curious oysterhead - how did you ship it back and how much did it cost you?

By the way, I agree in entire - there is no sense accepting a replacement set - unless they offer something with a firmware update or some other fix, even if I'm beta-testing a pre-release fix for them. That's the only situation in which it would make any sense to do an exchange, but it's why I am open to the possibility.

seems that the full mode was supposed to be a non-linear stretch like the Panny but is actually not - ???

I welcome any comments or suggestions, and will update this board with any information I get from the Plasma support group at Dell.

That's pretty much it. Three different threads about this in their community forum, and who knows how many open tech support tickets. And it's not just Panny that does it, Dell's own 42" does it correctly.

2) the other issue of wide/zoom/full screen which I am not sure I completely understand, but (correct me if needed) seems that the full mode was supposed to be a non-linear stretch like the Panny but is actually not - ???


Actually the "wide" mode is supposed to do the non-linear stretch for 4:3 material. But it does a linear stretch instead on the HDMI and component inputs.

Steve.

Actually the "wide" mode is supposed to do the non-linear stretch for 4:3 material. But it does a linear stretch instead on the HDMI and component inputs.

Steve.

Not on mine. With 4:3 material they all do nothing. Only Zoom does something, it expands both HD and SD content to fill the screen. Does not matter what the Comcast box is set to, Standard/Wide/Full all do nothing.

Does not matter if you take the 6412 out of the loop (other than the picture becomes a full stretch) and wide/standard/full still do nothing (but 4:3 does, as does zoom.)

If you use 480i override on the Motorola 6412 iii, and set 480i override to 480p/480i/Stretch they all do the same thing via component/HDMI (the box does a full linear stretch) and on the 50" only the 4:3 and Zoom buttons work.

If you use the 480i override on the Motorola 6412 iii, and set 480i override to Off, you get black boxes on SD and Full/Standard/Wide do nothing. This is how it should be set, and how Wide should do a non-linear stretch but it doesn't. Also does not matter if you have the Motorola set to output 1080i, 720p or 480i, same thing.

I'm going to have to research exactly where Dell claims that the wide mode will do a nonlinear stretch of 4:3 signals. If indeed what Dell advertises is not fulfilled by equipment performance, I catch the faint wiff of class action in the wind (if Dell cannot remedy with firmware fix). But I'm not a lawyer.

1) Can anyone point to where nonlinear stretch is claimed by Dell on the w5001c?

2) Any attorneys care to comment?

Greetings

I hope that when you talk about the non linear stretch not working ... you are looking at SD material and not upconverted 4:3 material where the image has 2 black bars slapped onto it before it even reaches the TV.

The TV only sees a 720p signal or a 1080i signal which would mean for real HD material that stretching is off limits. It can't tell the difference between a high rez 1080 signal and a low rez one.

Regards

Curious oysterhead - how did you ship it back and how much did it cost you?

they come to get it in-home. you lose the $100 "fee" to pay the 3rd party technician and shipping. I chose to let go of the $100 so that I could get a set that I'm totally satisfied with.

I just ordered the 50 " dell, I weighed all the input from this thread and have a couple questions

1. how difficult is it to set up?
2. for the average viewer (dvd and sat. box) are the issues with this something I need to be concerned about?

I just ordered the 50 " dell, I weighed all the input from this thread and have a couple questions

1. how difficult is it to set up?
2. for the average viewer (dvd and sat. box) are the issues with this something I need to be concerned about?

Set up is pretty straight forward.
Even if you wall mount it.
If you wall mount of course, run connections in the wall for a clean look.

As far as issues: Basically the ones you have learned about on this thread.
None resolved yet, unless you drop more money. Which i will not.

Unless your sat. box has an hdmi port, i would run components.
Running hdmi to dvi gave me signal loss problems. (clipping)

Greetings

I hope that when you talk about the non linear stretch not working ... you are looking at SD material and not upconverted 4:3 material where the image has 2 black bars slapped onto it before it even reaches the TV.

The TV only sees a 720p signal or a 1080i signal which would mean for real HD material that stretching is off limits. It can't tell the difference between a high rez 1080 signal and a low rez one.

Regards

I know what you mean about the black bars on upconverted images - I see grey ones on some network programs (eg. CBS evening news) which were obviously blocked on by the network before it even got to my STB (nothing I have does grey box borders).

As far as your second point - the resolutions (720p vs 1080i) - I take it that stretching is only done on 480p? Guess that makes sense - and most channels are in that mode. But my question remains - where does Dell state that the stretching is nonlinear? I may need to demonstrate that fact when I speak with the plasma tech this evening.

Michael TLV - I think Techie is on the right track, but a little confused as he said with the box set to 4:3 override "off" that the TV should do Wide (non-lin stretch). That as M-TLV pointed out is incorrect because 4:3 override "off" is actually sending a 16:9 signal. The TV should do Wide non-lin stretch with 480 4:3 signals. To get that the set box should be configured as 4:3 override to 480i/p. However over component and apparently HDMI the TV does NOT do that. I have a Moto 6200 HD box set to 4:3 override 480i. It is then sending out an SD 4:3 signal over the component outputs. The Dell TV Wide mode (which is supposed to do a non-lin stretch, and does do it through Ant input and composite input) simply duplicates the complete stretch mode that Standard/Full scrteen does. Dell needs to fix this.

Greetings

The little icon in the wide modes actually denotes "NL" like what else could that mean.

Regards

where does Dell state that the stretching is nonlinear?

I haven't seen anything in Dell's literature, but the TV uses the Pixelworks DNX chipset which touts it's Non-Linear stretch mode.

Click on the "Get DNX" logo: Pixelworks Website (http://www.pixelworks.com/)

Rich

Dell does mention "Intelligent" scaling. See the picture the way you want it.
But that's all thier is about it, is the phrase itself.
I haven't found any other info, on this at all.

Is that what this refers too? or is it something else alltogether?

those of you talking about scaling might be interested in my comparsion of the Dell 4201c vs. the NEC 42Xr4A

there are pics that compare SD scaling on each set attached to post #668 on this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=622396&page=23&pp=30

yet another new NEC owner here....my 42XR4 arrived yesterday in great shape. I had to wait like 4 hours for my fiance to get home and help me mount it on the stand! It killed me!

i'm totally stoked about our decision to send back the Dell W4021c and get the 42XR4. I was surprised to find out that my moto box will output via HDMI and component at the same time, so I was able to do some side-by-side tests! (Dell's coming to get their set this afternoon). I figured a good way to review the NEC would be to compare it to the Dell....I know some of you would think "well, yeah, it will kill a crappy Dell", but the Dell PQ is pretty damn good. In fact, we went to a few big box stores to check out Panasonics (500U's), and both my fiance and I thought the Dell could hang with the Panny in many regards...in other words, before we got the NEC, I thought the Dell's PQ was top notch.

We did a couple switch back-and-forths between component and HDMI, and ended up giving the Dell the HDMI to even the playing field a bit. Also note that I tweaked the Dell for weeks to get the picture right, but only took a few minutes to set-up the NEC. I started out with cpcat's contrast/bright/sharpness setting from his 50". The out-of-box picture of the NEC was a little red, but I turned the red down a bit, and all hints of "too-red" disappeared.

So here it goes:

PICTURE QUALITY: Within seconds (literally!) we could tell that the NEC was superior on both SD and HD. Before changing any of the settings, the colors of the NEC were so much more saturated than the Dell. I don't know if this is a function of the scaler, or the 67 billion colors, but the colors of the NEC are amazing. Skin tones especially. Faces just come to life. But the most dramatic improvement is shadow and highlight detailing. There were sooooo many instances when you couldn't even see a dark object in the Dell that you could make out on the NEC. Any time a scence was very dark or very light, the NEC's picture included objects that the Dell didn't pick up...very cool. I guess the flip side of this would be that the Dell's blacks are blacker than the NEC's. But they're not real! They're like TOO black. When an object is truly black on the NEC - it's truly black. When it's not truly black, you can see the details.

STANDARD DEFINITION: Viewing of SD channels is probably where the NEC really rips the Dell a new one. The stadium function of the NEC does such an awesome job of NOT making images look fat. During face shots it was soooo obvious how the Dell was making people look fat. (it's amazing that this didn't bother me before) This is really the only place where my camera could do justice for the comparison. See for yourself - look at the attached pics of shots from Scrubs...the Dell is in front.

REMOTE CONTROLS: This is really the only place where the Dell excels. I really don't like the remote of either set, but I have to say I like the Dell remote better. It's better looking, and you don't have to point the remote DIRECTLY at the sensor to make it work (you have to be precise with the NEC)

OPTIONS: The menus and number of settings/options on the NEC are awesome. You can change the menu position, the menu contrast, any color setting you can think of, there's like 10 modes of picture saver (image retention reducer), etc. If you want to change it on the NEC, you can. The Dell gives the user limited ability to adjust things.

IMAGE RETENTION: Like any new set, I can definitely see a little bit of ghosting on the NEC. It's just the nature of plasmas....But I think the Dell was much worse at ghosting when it was brand new. The NEC's ghosted images go away much quicker. This was one of the main things that got me motivated to return the Dell. Either way, I can't wait to have lots of hours on the NEC...I hate having to babysit the TV (e.g. zoom in during commercials)...I should admit though that I'm a little anal about making sure there's no chance of ghosting.

AESTHETICS: Before we got the NEC, I thought the Dell was one of the best looking sets...but man the NEC looks SOOO sweet! Full-on professional looking display. The stand especially looks really nice. If there's one thing where the NEC definitely kills the Panny it's in looks. This thing is hot! My finace quickly got over the "bevelled glass" bezel on the bottom. You can't even really see it, and the overall look is just awesome.

That's about all that I can think of now...overall, I'm stoked!

Another shout out to Chris at Cleveland Plasma for seeing me through this...his customer service is top notch.

well the dell promo ends 2/1 on the wd50 (18mths no interest) and i still cant decide if i want the wd50 or not.. price is right,ship is right.... dam what to do... did michael tlv get his new dell yet?

i say it comes down to (1) price and (2) post-purchase satisfaction.

to address (1): is the dell at the upper limit of what you want to spend?

if yes, buy dell no interest.

if no, check out the displays that you can purchase for a little more $$

to address (2):: trial dell for the 21 days. if you like, keep it and you're stoked that you didn't spend more $$. if you don't like it, have them come get it. all you lose is $100 non-refundable "fee". since you're gonna finance, the $4k never even comes out of your bank account. you simply have to pay the $100 after you return the set.

... if you don't like it, have them come get it. all you lose is $100 non-refundable "fee". since you're gonna finance, the $4k never even comes out of your bank account. you simply have to pay the $100 after you return the set.

Hey, Oysterhead, could you tell me where that is stated? I am in the process of rerurning my 50" Dell (on a courtesy extension of the 21 days while techies see if they can "fix" the black crush), but was told I had to arrange and pay for my own shipping. I'd love to show Dell where it says I can have them pick it up and only pay a hundred bucks.

Greetings

Yes, I got it ... but it is still sitting in the box half open. No time to do anything with it yet. Only confirm it has the same SM limitations as previous unit. More to come ...

Regards

Has anyone tried the Belkin PureAV RazorVision with your Dell W5001C?

It's on Belkin's website under RazorVision. There is also a discussion in the 'Video Processor' under the title ' Belkin launch "in cable" video processor - PureAV RazorVision'. I wonder if this unit would have any effect on the Black Crush problem.

Hey, Oysterhead, could you tell me where that is stated? I am in the process of rerurning my 50" Dell (on a courtesy extension of the 21 days while techies see if they can "fix" the black crush), but was told I had to arrange and pay for my own shipping. I'd love to show Dell where it says I can have them pick it up and only pay a hundred bucks.


What? that's a crock...they pay shipping...you only lose $100.

not sure where it's in writing, but maybe you could email the rep that was so helpful for me:

cheryl_cheas@dell.com

I'll post her phone number tomorrow...it's in my office at work.

On page one of this thread I posted some links to some pics of my project of inserting my Dell into my fireplace opening using a garage door opener as a lift.

Well, I finally finished the project, here are a couple of pics.

holy cow!

that is freakin amazing!

to make sure i understand, you push the garage door opener, and the plasma goes up and down in front of the fireplace?

so you want to use the fireplace, push the button?

watch tv, push the button?

all I can say is WOW! nice job.

As far as temperature issues are concerned, you're probably the only one out there who's plasma vents heat through a dedicated chimney.

holy cow!

that is freakin amazing!

to make sure i understand, you push the garage door opener, and the plasma goes up and down in front of the fireplace?

so you want to use the fireplace, push the button?

watch tv, push the button?

all I can say is WOW! nice job.

Yep, it just goes up and down. I think I will post it in separate thread on the plasma forum since it really isn't all that much related to the fact that it is a Dell.

Hello all. Just thinking about the dell as a TV for me...and one thing I'm curious about that I haven't read is the viewing angle. I've read in more than one ad, that it's 80Deg viewing...while most plasmas are up to 160-170 Deg viewing angle. Any thoughts? I have a sectional couch and that puts some of the viewing around 110Deg and I wouldn't want guests watching a movie ...and not getting the same view as someone in direct eyeline. Thanks.

I've read in more than one ad, that it's 80Deg viewing...while most plasmas are up to 160-170 Deg viewing angle. Any thoughts?

The 80 Deg. is in each direction... Thus 160 total! All Plasmas have practically the same viewing angle so I wouldn't let that be a part of your decision. Compared to RPTV's, Plasmas are waaaay better.

Rich

Ahhh, thanks. Makes sence that it would "seem better" to have a company boast a larger number. ALSO, I was just thinking about the differences between the panny 50PM and this dell (both from Costco) and it seems that the contrast(8000:/3000:) and PC inputs (I only use VGA and panny lacks them) are the major differences between the two. Thoughts there?...not concerned at all about PIP or stretch...but the options of pixle orbit/white wash don't seem to be mentioned in either set? Again, thanks for the input. You've ALL helped me NOT to buy the Visio or Philips from costco. Though thier returm policy is amazing, I'd rather take one trip or have it shipped. And speaking of thier return policy, I Found that a friend of mine was able to take back a bottle of decent wine with about a glass left in it because he stated (and I'm not making this up) "I didn't get a buzz yet." (him speaking)... (just thought I'd put that little bee in your bonnet)

Forget everything you read about contrast ratios. Different manufacturers measure it differently. Let your eyes be the judge. I have the Dell and the contrast seems great on it. As for VGA input, if you need it then the Panny is out....

I just want to say I am very pleased with my TV after de-AVSing myself (Meaning, not reading the forums for a week or so and just enjoying the unit). Is it perfect? No, but I really enjoy it and I would be that many issue people have can be corrected via firmware upgrade.

Greetings

A few preliminary notes about the set.

Normal mode is actually closest to a proper grayscale. Varying from 6200k to 7200 on the bright end.

Natural mode is actually more blue around 8-9000K range.

Gamma selection in the SM does nothing. Same gamma regardless of 1.9 or 2.2 or S setting.

The unit has really bad gamma at even mid level contrast settings. The gamma curve looks best at contrast less than 30 ... or a light output of about 50 ft-L or less. With high brightness comes bad light response. Mid range too too bright.

Sharpness at 3 or less is preferable.

Regards

Thx for the input Michael.

Wow, contrast less than 30.
Going to lose detail for sure.

Does not sound to promising on getting a good calibration, thru the service menu.

So far, this set sucks.

The gamma curve looks best at contrast less than 30 ... or a light output of about 50 ft-L or less. With high brightness comes bad light response.

Hello Michael, I'm glad you're back. What do you mean by "light output of about 50 ft-L or less"? Does this correspond to a particular brightness or contrast setting (e.g., 50)?

Regarding the SM gamma setting, is it possible that the TV needs to be "reset" (or at least cycled) in order for new settings to take place? Based on your observation of "really bad gamma at mid level contrast settings", which of the non-default options (r=1.9 or r=2.2) would you guess would be better?

If this is indeed a non-functional menu option, combined with the non-functional Color Adjustment menu and the non-function timezone setting on the user menu, it starts to look like maybe the TV was released before it was baked. That, or the panel and circuitry aren't a good match for one another.

Greetings

Three cycles of readings ... 1.9 ... 2.2 ... S curve ... no meaningful change in the gamma curve. I just left it at 2.2

The original best contrast setting that gives the set the best dynamic range yields a contrast level of around 45-50 range. No white crush or discoloration in the bright whites.

Problem with this max dynamic range setting is that the resulting gamma is not even close at all. The mid range brightness/light output of the image is too high ... while the dark end and bright end are about where they should be.

Taking a tip from fellow calibrator Chuck Williams and his 50 ft-L guideline ... I set the light output at about that, which corresponds to a contrast of about 25-28. The gamma at this level was much closer to the expected 2.2 curve. I ended up at about 2.10-2.14 range.

50 ft-L is determined with a 100% windowbox pattern and a light meter. Decrease contrast on that pattern until you get to around 50 ft-L.

At the current time ... prior to adding the Lumagen scaler back into the mix, the overall image is noticeably worse than even my Budget BB Insignia HD 42" plasma for pure image quality. There is no pixelworks post processing on that budget unit resulting in a far cleaner image.

Regards

Greetings

Three cycles of readings ... 1.9 ... 2.2 ... S curve ... no meaningful change in the gamma curve. I just left it at 2.2

The original best contrast setting that gives the set the best dynamic range yields a contrast level of around 45-50 range. No white crush or discoloration in the bright whites.

Problem with this max dynamic range setting is that the resulting gamma is not even close at all. The mid range brightness/light output of the image is too high ... while the dark end and bright end are about where they should be.

Taking a tip from fellow calibrator Chuck Williams and his 50 ft-L guideline ... I set the light output at about that, which corresponds to a contrast of about 25-28. The gamma at this level was much closer to the expected 2.2 curve. I ended up at about 2.10-2.14 range.

50 ft-L is determined with a 100% windowbox pattern and a light meter. Decrease contrast on that pattern until you get to around 50 ft-L.

At the current time ... prior to adding the Lumagen scaler back into the mix, the overall image is noticeably worse than even my Budget BB Insignia HD 42" plasma for pure image quality. There is no pixelworks post processing on that budget unit resulting in a far cleaner image.

Regards

Thanks for the feedback!! I can't say that fully understand this stuff but I understand it enough to say that this is not good. :( So should we now make our problem Dell's problem? I know they fixed issues with the 4200 series early last year and I believe Dell was exchanging peoples sets. If we should push Dell to revise this set? or am I just a hopeless dreamer :confused: I can't say that I am totally dissatisfied with the TV but I would like to see the processing fixed and PQ increased.

Michael TLV,

If I pair up this Dell with a DVDO iScan VP30, how would you rate the PQ compared to other 50" plasma sets?

I can get a great deal on the VP30 from one of my friends.

-Tim

Michael TLV - thanks for the lesson on gamma and contrast. Interesting. I reduced my contrast to 28, and the picture still looks *okay*. Maybe the decreased contrast now makes the bottom end look relatively less dark, or something, but all of a sudden I'm bothered more now by the elevated brightness required to get past the "purple just above black".

I'm very interested to hear what the set looks like connected to your Lumagen. If it looks significantly better, or even great, I might be up for trying something like that. Does the scaler "defeat" the Pixelworks circuitry by presenting a signal that the TV somehow identifies as "unscalable" (i.e., at the native resolution of the panel)?

We have decided to return our W5001C. It started to emit a loud buzzing noise, and that was the last straw. While the PQ was very good with a high-def signal, the numerous technical flaws in the set and horrible scaling were too much to bear for a television costing this much money. While it is not terribly expensive by plasma standards, it still represents a LOT of money and really should perform better. Those stuck with the sets or deciding to avoid the hassles of returning them can get around some issues by buying additional equipment - and hopefully some of the other problems like signal clip, magenta screen when colour temp is changed, lack of operational Wide mode, etc can be addressed down the road with a firmware upgrade.

Last weekend we bought a Pioneer 4360HD and are blown away by the PQ and features. It was slightly more money and is of course 7 diagonal inches smaller - but we shortened up our viewing range and couldn't be happier. Several days later I am still in awe over how much better it performs than the Dell. Both of my existing 480p DVD players were awesome through component video - indicating that the scaling is light years better than the Dell. Needless to say, my recently purchased Panasonis S77 player went back for a full refund. I think there is the potential to see the Dell in isolation and start to believe that the PQ on high-def/upconverted signals is terrific - but a side-by-side comparison with the Pioneer dispelled that myth in seconds. There is NO comparison whatsoever. Here in Canada the second attempt to return the Dell set (within 30 day window) without that brutal 15% restock fee was successful. I will cover the shipping fees (already quoted to me by the company Dell uses before I set up the return - so Dell can't burn me on that side of things). I hope everyone who buys the W5001C or is keeping it have good success in getting their problems resolved. I have to commend Dell (even if it took a second Customer Care agent). They made three progressively higher discount settlement offers to go with an exchange (not sure if refurb) and when I declined all three offers she said it could go back with no restock fee because it was defective. Anyone in Canada experiencing resistance should fight for the same arrangement if they are trying to return this set.

I recently purchased this set. The boxing day sale of $3700 CDN was too hard to resist. Unfortunately, I must admit that I am not satisfied with this TV. The black levels are absolute horrid...as posted by many others, shadow detail is probably the worst I have ever seen. My unit is not defective so I would have to pay the 15% restocking fee. Looks like I am forced to hang on too this clunker. I do believe the panel has the potential to look excellent, the video processor is just S**T. I am going to buy a used DVDO HD scaler that can scale to 1366X768 on the recomendation of another AVS forum member. Scaling to the native reolution is supposed to bypass this sets ridiclously bad video processor. If the DVDO renders an excellent picture, I would still be much farther ahead in cost as opposed to buying a pioneer or panasonic plasma ($6500 CDN) If a plasma is not a must, I would definately buy the sony SXRD now.

htcal,

Please let us know how the picture looks with the scalar. I'm also willing to spend a little more to get a decent picture. I have my fears that it's not a problem with the scalar, but rather the other video processing which I don't know if you can bypass :-(

Rich

It actually is a video processor/scaler...byselecting the native output resolution of 1366X768 you bypass all video processing within the dell unit and is dependent on the DVDO unit solely. I will not be buying this unit right away due to lack of funds, but I will let you know how it looks

Has anyone tried the Belkin PureAV RazorVision with your Dell W5001C?

It's on Belkin's website under RazorVision. There is also a discussion in the 'Video Processor' under the title ' Belkin launch "in cable" video processor - PureAV RazorVision'. I wonder if this unit would have any effect on the Black Crush problem.

Does not look like anyone has, DCI.

Just from reading that thread, concensous seems to lean towards that it improves sports,(makes it appear 3D. But not much praise on anything else, so far.

Would be nice if a cheap out would improve the Weaknesses of this set.
But i highly doubt it.

If they do get on the horse and get firmware out thier to improve this set.
I'll be the 1st on the bandwagon.

Till then, No Dice.

Greetings

I pulled my Lumagen Vision HDP scaler off my main projector system to see what it could do with the Dell and its purple blacks.

Since the Lumagen has an 11 point grayscale system ... you can pick and choose where to start ... 0 % ... 10% ... 20% ... 100%

The good news is that you can tweak out the purple dark end and make it normal looking by playing with the 10% setting.

Also nice to run the TV at 1366x768 and effectively reduce the built in overscan to well under 2.0% versus the box setting of 3.5% or so.

So the good news is that it works ... and you also have access to color decoder items.

Bottom line ... far more watchable than where we started.

(Since the ISCAN does not do grayscale ... it is not recommended that one looks at that box for external scaling)

Regards

Well Mike, that's good to know. I wasn't sure that any VP would work because one of the Gurus in the video processors forum suggested that nothing would work for the Dell. Maybe we can find a group buy somewhere.

Thanks


Greetings

I pulled my Lumagen Vision HDP scaler off my main projector system to see what it could do with the Dell and its purple blacks.

Since the Lumagen has an 11 point grayscale system ... you can pick and choose where to start ... 0 % ... 10% ... 20% ... 100%

The good news is that you can tweak out the purple dark end and make it normal looking by playing with the 10% setting.

Also nice to run the TV at 1366x768 and effectively reduce the built in overscan to well under 2.0% versus the box setting of 3.5% or so.

So the good news is that it works ... and you also have access to color decoder items.

Bottom line ... far more watchable than where we started.

(Since the ISCAN does not do grayscale ... it is not recommended that one looks at that box for external scaling)

Regards

I am digging up this post to informyou guys that after a month of flawless service my tv has gone to crap. It turns off on its own. When you go to turn it back on off it goes again. You have to let it sit for 10 or 15 mins. It has only started this in the last week and is becoming more frequent. I jump through all Dells hoops. They are sending me a new tv I hope this one is better.

Well Mike, that's good to know. I wasn't sure that any VP would work because one of the Gurus in the video processors forum suggested that nothing would work for the Dell. Maybe we can find a group buy somewhere.

Thanks

Yeah, it's good to know, but still suggesting you have to drop over 1k for a fix.

For me, that's totally unexceptable, maybe o.k. for you guys in Can. cause it's still a better choice price wise compared to other sets.

Not for me, i could have gotten the 50" panny for a hundred bucks more.
I realize i made a bid mistake, going with the dell.

Dropping another K into this set, is not a good deal for me at all.

Premium price/Budget Quality

I think a good external scaler will help out a lot. When you consider that a good quality upconverting DVD player yielded good results, and that high-def satellite signals yielded a good result, then it seems that measures taken to bypass the internal processing from 480 to 720/1080 are very much worthwhile for those who are unable to return the set. We found that high-def and upconverted DVD sources were very watchable. In the States that extra expense is very lame, given the relative cost of a Pio or Panny. In Canada, $1500 extra for the scaler puts the cost at around $5200 (assuming $3700 for the Dell). That's still less than a Panasonic or Pioneer 50". Obviously the economics are nowhere near as good as people expected going in, but at least the situation can be mostly salvaged.

I think a good external scaler will help out a lot. When you consider that a good quality upconverting DVD player yielded good results, and that high-def satellite signals yielded a good result, then it seems that measures taken to bypass the internal processing from 480 to 720/1080 are very much worthwhile for those who are unable to return the set. We found that high-def and upconverted DVD sources were very watchable. In the States that extra expense is very lame, given the relative cost of a Pio or Panny. In Canada, $1500 extra for the scaler puts the cost at around $5200 (assuming $3700 for the Dell). That's still less than a Panasonic or Pioneer 50". Obviously the economics are nowhere near as good as people expected going in, but at least the situation can be mostly salvaged.

I agree, since it's being confirmed by an ISF pro.
So, which scalers would be a good one to look at, since the iscan is not recommended?

Even though i'm not going to purchase one, someone else might
want to go that route.

how many hdmi ports on the dell fitty?

Greetings

2 HDMI ...

(can't get the analog audio to work when HDMI is plugged in ... hmmm)

Regards

Hello all,

I am sorry to have given false hope in a Display that IS SUB PAR. My new set is having problems and I am now fed up, I have requested a return and now they are trying to have some poor soul come to my house and "Help" me set up the set. Like that's the problem. All I can say is that when I wanted to return it and they (Dell) convinced me to try a new one it was done for a reason. To push me over my 30 days. I was provided an extension to review the new set but that was for a week, It took Dell three weeks after that call to deliver the darn thing. I was nice today, we'll see what tomorrow brings.

I am now looking at a getting a new 50" Plasma, I am thinking of the Elite Pro-1130HD or Panny TH-50HD8UK. Michael TLV what would be the best of the two to use in conjunction with my iScan HD? I know that the Elite has some ISF Calibration thing in it, How would you rate these choices? Don't want to get burned again. Your Professional opinion would be appreciated.I figure that you have the knowledge and some hands on with these units.The Elite is almost twice the price of the Panny here. So if the Panny is a Great performer then I think that the wife could stomach the price but I don't want to think what will come from her mouth if I drop 10k with tax on an Elite.

CxTurbo

Greetings

The Elite is a nice set and the black finish looks great. Color management is an asset. Grayscale calibrates just fine. ISF C3 modes look nifty ... as little ISF icons on screen have to look cool.

The Panasonic has better blacks by a hair ... and is just missing the C3 ... and color management which you may not miss ...

Probably just save the money and go with the Panasonic. No more guess work ... it's great ... and that's about it.

Goes good with an ISCAN, but don't expect the iscan to work wonders here. The Panny is good by itself.

Regards

CxTurbo,

You might also want to consider the new NEC 50XR5 or 50XM5. They've been getting a lot of VERY good reviews from new owners. The XR (residential) series has features specifically to facilitate being professionally calibrated by ISF certified wizards. They are very similar in price to the commercial Panny's here in the great white north.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7093507

That said, there are also rumours of a price drop coming in the next couple of days on the commercial Panny's in Canada. If you do choose to go that route, apparently it's worth the effort to find one of the '8' series HDMI blades, which is apparently quite a lot better than the older '7' series model, at least according to someone who A/B'd them on his 65" panel.

Hello all,

I am sorry to have given false hope in a Display that IS SUB PAR. My new set is having problems and I am now fed up
...

CxTurbo

Hey, Cx - sorry to hear about the ongoing issues with the Dell. Your post gave me hope with my own w5001c, but I pulled the plug on it on the 21st day. I was also given the option to extend my return priviledges if I spoke with tech support. I did, but it was quickly clear they were following scripts in halting English - both a big communications barrier and they obviously had not a clue as to the basic problem. My set gets picked up tomorrow, and I have a deposit on the Elite 1130.

My big question for you is this - how did the Dell improve (or fail to improve) with the external scaler? You seemed so hopeful that this would resolve the issue. Could you give a mini test report on the marriage of the Dell and the external scaler?

Thanks again,

Lee

PS - I'd not give up on getting Dell to take back the TV. If nothing else, maybe you can ask them for an "in store" credit and get a Dell media PC - but it seems obvious you worked with them and really tried to give the TV a fair chance. Seems only fair that they'd extend the courtesy.

Hello all,

I am sorry to have given false hope in a Display that IS SUB PAR. My new set is having problems and I am now fed up,

CxTurbo

It's not you that created False Hope. That is Dell's doing.
Did you have mechanical problems or just sick of all the PQ issues?

Michael stated the iscan was not a good match for the dell, i guess he is right.
You must have gotten that before he tried it out, he did not reccomend the iscan, but no one has suggested another scaler yet.

Good luck with your next set, i'm sure it will be much better.
Everytime i turn mine on, it just feels like it's gonna go.

Premium Dough/Budget Quality

Dell W5001C #3 arrived on Monday, #2 went back. #3 is worse than #2 - it's definitely a refurb and it looks exactly as if someone might have "bumped" the ADC calibration (I wonder if I got CxTurbo's #1 ...). And, the firmware update that I had been told would be installed on #3 before it shipped apparently never happened, because it still has the "flashing screen" problem on S-Video.

The Dell support staff in New Delhi is very polite and eager to help, but profoundly unequipped to deal with anything other than DOA or RTFM-type problems. They don't even have units that they can go look at while trying to help. And they are given NO information/training on the product. The people on this forum know way more about these TVs than anyone I ever talked to or chatted with at Dell.

While I've had none of the power-related issues that others have, the deal breaker for me is the picture quality. The purplish tinge in the dark grays just above video black is impossible to work around. The lack of adjustability means that there's no hope for a good an ISF calibration. And the fact that Dell doesn't have a clue about high-end TVs leads me to believe that there will not be a fix/recall any time soon. The W5001C should be relegated for use as an airport flight arrival/departure monitor.

If Dell decides to remain in the high-end TV market, I have no doubt that they will sort all of this out eventually. They're a good company, and (from my experience) stand behind their products. The industrial engineering and build quality on the W5001C is first rate - it's attractive, sturdy, and VERY HEAVY. Their approach to technical support (ask a few basic questions, then replace the product) might actually work if their product wasn't fundamentally flawed. If they can get their OEM partners to produce a "correct", reliable TV they will be able to compete.

The final chapter in this story will be written early next week when I return unit #3 to Costco in anticipation of a full refund. Had I not purchased from Costco, I believe Dell may have allowed me to return the set to them for a full refund as well, even though my first one arrived in early December.

Next up: NEC PX-50RX5

Greetings

I am using a Lumagen Vision HDP Scaler on my Dell 50". I pulled it off my main DLP projection system to test out on this plasma and then on my other 42" budget HD plasma.

While this scaler is going back to the main system ... eventually ... I will get another Lumagen for the Dell.

It does enough things to improve the Dell image to warrant keeping it.

I like the overscan reduction ability of the scaler. I can override the TV's built in 3.5-4% overscan. I like mine down at 1.5%-2%. More head room for all my images.

I like the color decoder control to take care of any hints of red push or green push.

And if it wasn't for the 11 point grayscale system, I'd be much sadder for it. After initially encountering some glitches with the system and talking to the folks at Lumagen about it, I learned that the glitches were actually on the Dell side ... but more importantly, I learned why it happened and how to better account for it. (Budget TV with budget performance characteristic issue). The purple blacks have been tuned out and replaced by something far closer to acceptable and normal.

After the recalibration of the TV system ... I sat back to watch this WOW disc compilation that I created to give to my clients. While no WOW was heard from me, I was quite surprised at the overall level of improvement thanks to the Lumagen. It took an image that I might rate as at 60% and took it to 80% in my book ... suddenly this image was very watchable indeed.

My subjective rating of post calibrated images on plasma sets in my home has been like this ...

Panasonic 42" ED ... 90 % (My Benchmark ... not perfect, but closest to it.)
Samsung 42" ED ... 75% (Purple blacks just kill it for me and intense digital look at 5 feet or less)
Insignia 42" HD ... 85% (with the Lumagen. This is a budget TV no name product from BB. 75% without the Lumagen.)
Dell 50" HD ... 80% (With the Lumagen) ... 60% without.

The Dell has a certain signature look to it that the scaler can't really change and that look is one of softness. It lacks the crispness of the other smaller units ... and this isn't a pixel thing either since the Panasonic 50" units don't have this look about them. But strangely, when you put the films on the screen and this softness translates into some film like look to it.

In some aspects, with the scaler combination, this set now outperforms other units with its superior color decoding and grayscale accuracy and image sizing control. The scaler can't make blacks blacker though.

I still have the original 50" unit sitting in a box waiting for them to retrieve it. They may never do that ... how weird. I call them ... tell them to arrange for pick up ... they say UPS will come get it ... I tell them that won't happen since it is too big for UPS to handle. They say they will get back to me.

Week later ... they call to see if the replacement set arrived and is okay ... I say yes ... but what about the original one waiting to be returned in my hall way? Oh ... will send UPS to pick it up ... and here we go again. They say they will get back to me ... I have not heard a peep for 12 days now. (Maybe I should just EBAY it and send them back half :) )

Regards

Well, The whole thing is that the set just downright looks like crap. It took me a while to come to that I know but I think the people whome where telling me it looked good just wanted to be nice. I personally sat and watched a 50" Elite with my dvd player. Now that is a PDP and what one should look like. I just got off the phone with Dell and they denied my Return. I think that was the wrong thing to do because it's not over. Apparently the extension over 30 days was not documented and they are more or less calling me a liar. I am now waiting for a call back and personally I feel bad for the dude on the other end. Long and short of it is I live about and hour from their office. The way I feel know I could be there in 20 minutes with both sets in hand and THEY WILL TAKE THEM BACK!!!. Try to tell me that I have to resolve the issues that my other equipment is causing with Tech Support. They even had some guy call me last night to come over and help me set it up, this dude runs a satalite installation company so I'm sure he's qualified to install my Home Theatre system and wave a magic wand to make this $HITTY set better.


LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS THE SET IS CRAP, ALWAYS WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE!!!!

NUF. SAID

I'll talk more when I'm not so pissed!

CxTurbo