Sample rate aliasing can lead to all sorts of weird effects. When professionals film a TV they get the camera in sync with the TV's refresh rate.

The camera is likely picking up the "rainbow effect" because it just happens to be sampling at the point where some phosphors have decayed but others haven't. We've all seen the case where a non-synced camera is used on a CRT, typically the flicker is horrible because the camera will sync up with the blanking periods.

It's official...I see it as well and I'm really bummed! :(

It's particularly noticeable when watching high-contrast scenes in dark surroundings, when I typically have my Panasonic TC-P42G10 in THX mode. Probably doesn't help that I've been watching Battlestar Galactica, which has a lot of dark scenes and florescent lights.

If people want to know what it looks like, I've uploaded a video to Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqGGeQfv54k

Here's a still (sorry it's low-resolution...old camera):

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/25595b806bf8236d3f32a7ac9a67f2462g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=ftjnyxtlzjw)

For me the flashes are extremely distracting, taking me out of whatever movie I'm watching. I'm glad I only bought a 42", as we decided to wait for prices on larger sets to drop further before we got a size better suited for our 10-foot viewing distance.

When I do, it'll probably be a non-plasma display. Yes, the problem is annoying enough that I'll sacrifice picture quality in order to avoid the "green flash"!

It's official...I see it as well and I'm really bummed! :(

It's particularly noticeable when watching high-contrast scenes in dark surroundings, when I typically have my Panasonic TC-P42G10 in THX mode. Probably doesn't help that I've been watching Battlestar Galactica, which has a lot of dark scenes and florescent lights.

If people want to know what it looks like, I've uploaded a video to Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqGGeQfv54k

Here's a still (sorry it's low-resolution...old camera):

http://www.uhlalbert.com/stuff/GreenFlash.jpg

For me the flashes are extremely distracting, taking me out of whatever movie I'm watching. I'm glad I only bought a 42", as we decided to wait for prices on larger sets to drop further before we got a size better suited for our 10-foot viewing distance.

When I do, it'll probably be a non-plasma display. Yes, the problem is annoying enough that I'll sacrifice picture quality in order to avoid the "green flash"!

Why were you moving the camera shooting the video quickly back and forth? It seems like that's what caused the flashing.

I was totally bummed after finally pulling the trigger on a Pioneer Kuro 500M and almost immediately started seeing 'rainbow' type effects. I had a DLP front projector and would noticed the rainbows from time to time. I have to agree with someone who wrote that its actually a bit worse on plasma. it's not quite the same effect of DLP but it's definitely flashes of yellow, etc esp on high contrast scenes as others have mentioned.

I"m not sure if there is anyway to correct. i'm bummed!

I was totally bummed after finally pulling the trigger on a Pioneer Kuro 500M and almost immediately started seeing 'rainbow' type effects. I had a DLP front projector and would noticed the rainbows from time to time. I have to agree with someone who wrote that its actually a bit worse on plasma. it's not quite the same effect of DLP but it's definitely flashes of yellow, etc esp on high contrast scenes as others have mentioned.

I"m not sure if there is anyway to correct. i'm bummed!
Panasonic's new 3D Plasmas may fix the problem, or at least reduce it to acceptable levels:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2jcu5n6_th.png (http://i45.tinypic.com/2jcu5n6.png)

I see dead people.

It's all smoke and mirrors.....once the smoke escapes you are finished. I will have 2 of whatever these guys are taking.

Why were you moving the camera shooting the video quickly back and forth? It seems like that's what caused the flashing.Exactly! I intentionally moved the camera like that, in order to replicate the problem!

The problem that I experience is when I move my focus from one spot of the screen to another, as is the case when following the two characters in the above scene. This rapid eye movement is called a saccade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccade), and it's during that saccadic movement when I see the yellow/green flashes.

I wanted to see if this effect was purely perceptual (all in my head) or if it was optical in nature. So I decided to use my camera and try to reproduce the scenario as best I could. The fact that the video captures it, proves that it is indeed an optical phenomenon.

It seems that only a few people actually notice it, let alone, are bothered by it. Unfortunately I'm one of those few! :(

It seems that only a few people actually notice it, let alone, are bothered by it. Unfortunately I'm one of those few! :(

Have you had laser eye surgery?

Exactly! I intentionally moved the camera like that, in order to replicate the problem!

The problem that I experience is when I move my focus from one spot of the screen to another, as is the case when following the two characters in the above scene. This rapid eye movement is called a saccade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccade), and it's during that saccadic movement when I see the yellow/green flashes.

I wanted to see if this effect was purely perceptual (all in my head) or if it was optical in nature. So I decided to use my camera and try to reproduce the scenario as best I could. The fact that the video captures it, proves that it is indeed an optical phenomenon.

It seems that only a few people actually notice it, let alone, are bothered by it. Unfortunately I'm one of those few! :(

Well the reason I asked is because when I watch a movie my head and eyes rarely have to move much as the picture is there right in front of me and it only takes a slight shift of the eyes to capture everything on the screen. I have recently been diagnosed with 4th order palsy which makes my eyes focus slowly when moving rapidly and also creates double vision when tilting my head to the left or looking down with my eyes and head still. Even with this problem it cause no viewing problems when watching TV. If you're moving your head rapidly while watching TV maybe retraining yourself to keep your head more still might help alleviate the problem.

Panasonic's new 3D Plasmas may fix the problem, or at least reduce it to acceptable levels:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2jcu5n6_th.png (http://i45.tinypic.com/2jcu5n6.png)

Also, Samsung has developed new phosphors for 2010 3D PDP.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd126/xrox/phosphor3D.jpg

Good explanation of it here (http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/plasma-phosphor-trail-2007040133.htm).

...karl

man i feel sorry for you. can't even enjoy HD.

according to this you are cursed. see a witch doctor to remove said curse

What Are You On About? There’s No Trail On My Plasma!
The good news is that 99% of plasma TV owners do not see the problem 99% of the time. However, some people who are “cursed” with sensitive eyes (these people usually notice flicker even when the refresh rate on their computer monitor is set at 75Hz) can’t help but notice the phosphor trails. The aim of this article is to make you – if you’re considering buying a plasma TV – aware that such a problem exists, and that you should make sure you’re not susceptible to it before committing yourself.

Have you had laser eye surgery?
No.

If you're moving your head rapidly while watching TV maybe retraining yourself to keep your head more still might help alleviate the problem.I'm not moving my head, I'm moving my eyes. Saccadic movements are a normal part of human vision.

Here's an excerpt from the definition of Saccade on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccade):

Humans and other animals do not look at a scene in fixed steadiness; instead, the eyes move around, locating interesting parts of the scene and building up a mental 'map' corresponding to the scene. One reason for the saccadic movement of the human eye is that the central part of the retina—known as the fovea—plays a critical role in resolving objects. By moving the eye so that small parts of a scene can be sensed with greater resolution, body resources can be used more efficiently.

Other related pages
http://www.neuronresearch.net/vision/reading/saccades.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_%28sensory%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea

I'm not moving my head, I'm moving my eyes. Saccadic movements are a normal part of human vision.

Here's an excerpt from the definition of Saccade on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccade):

Humans and other animals do not look at a scene in fixed steadiness; instead, the eyes move around, locating interesting parts of the scene and building up a mental 'map' corresponding to the scene. One reason for the saccadic movement of the human eye is that the central part of the retina—known as the fovea—plays a critical role in resolving objects. By moving the eye so that small parts of a scene can be sensed with greater resolution, body resources can be used more efficiently.

Other related pages
http://www.neuronresearch.net/vision/reading/saccades.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_%28sensory%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea

Find a website that is actually done by doctors....not just some idiot that posts what he thinks. Witch doctors are the best for the removal of said curse. Worked in my case but i still only have one good eye.

Here's a pic of my doc...I think she'll be able to help me.

http://forums.timesdaily.com/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/1761020287/inlineimg/Y/witch_doctor.jpg

Wow...such an old thread...I think this plasma old-timer has to drop in and say hi...er...and leave.

So is this still a "problem" on new Panasonic tvs? I could see it on my friends old Panasonic Plasma but when I went to the store I could not detect the phenomenon on last years models...:confused:

So is this still a "problem" on new Panasonic tvs? I could see it on my friends old Panasonic Plasma but when I went to the store I could not detect the phenomenon on last years models...:confused:

I could see it really well on the 08 models, but I rarely see it on the 09 and 2010 models (it is greatly reduced to my eyes) and I haven't even checked a 3d model yet.

I was totally bummed after finally pulling the trigger on a Pioneer Kuro 500M and almost immediately started seeing 'rainbow' type effects. I had a DLP front projector and would noticed the rainbows from time to time. I have to agree with someone who wrote that its actually a bit worse on plasma. it's not quite the same effect of DLP but it's definitely flashes of yellow, etc esp on high contrast scenes as others have mentioned.

I"m not sure if there is anyway to correct. i'm bummed!

Yup, yup... join the club! I was going to purchase the first Kuro Elite (PRO-110) and noticed this nasty issue, and the PRO-111 wasn't an improvement. While the VT2x series is an improvement, the red and green phosphors are still orders of magnitude quicker (over 10 times slower than blue). So much for superior motion on a flat panel! ;) :(

WOW! I just Googled this to see if it was just me. Guess I was wrong!

I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me with my new 50" Panasonic G20 plasma. I am watching The Book of Eli and having a drink (Maybe the booze is slowing my senses enough to notice it) and I start seeing these blue and yellow flashes of lines during high contrast scenes.

How annoying! Oh well. Guess it's only occasionally I will see this (I hope).

I could see it really well on the 08 models, but I rarely see it on the 09 and 2010 models (it is greatly reduced to my eyes) and I haven't even checked a 3d model yet.

Actually now that I think about it I have only seen the new models with normal SD tv - no Blu Ray / DVD.
When I saw the phenomenon at my friend I actually didn't notice it on normal TV. But when we put on a DVD or Blu Ray i noticed it immediately. So the better the quality the more notable? :confused:

I have seen this on my old 3000 sxrd,it also had the shiny silver silk screen effect but I do not see it on my 58vt25.

i just purchased a Panasonic TC-P65S2 and i've noticed rainbows since the first day but i thought it might be me. i thought i would google it and sure enough, i'm not the only one susceptible to this phenomenon.

i can still return the tv but i'm not sure if there is anything out there that will fully satisfy me. i can't stand new lcd (soap opera affect), dlp rainbows give me headaches, i have too much ambient light for FP lcd, and i want a screen size that is at least 65" but still somewhat affordable....

Laservue from Mitsubishi. maybe. I have no idea what the pricing is like or availability these days, but something to check out as a possible alternative.

i just purchased a Panasonic TC-P65S2 and i've noticed rainbows since the first day but i thought it might be me. i thought i would google it and sure enough, i'm not the only one susceptible to this phenomenon.

i can still return the tv but i'm not sure if there is anything out there that will fully satisfy me. i can't stand new lcd (soap opera affect), dlp rainbows give me headaches, i have too much ambient light for FP lcd, and i want a screen size that is at least 65" but still somewhat affordable....

s2 is bottom of the barrel panasonic plasma. try something with faster refresh rate like the vt25 series that actually has faster phosphors (to accommodate 3-D). I haven't seen that model (s2) first hand, but I can say that higher end plasmas typically have higher quality parts and higher quality panels. This generally means better picture with less artifact pollution.

s2 is bottom of the barrel panasonic plasma. try something with faster refresh rate like the vt25 series that actually has faster phosphors (to accommodate 3-D). I haven't seen that model (s2) first hand, but I can say that higher end plasmas typically have higher quality parts and higher quality panels. This generally means better picture with less artifact pollution.

I've purchased a TC-P65VT25, it was delivered two days ago. Almost immediately on Tivo HD sports recordings I started getting the sensation of flickering on the screen, in bright white areas (scores, uniforms, lines on the field, etc). Eventually I started to notice rainbow-like artifacts, mostly as I moved my eyes to different parts of the screen. The flickering sensation is constant, even if I hold my eyes in place, much like looking at a 60Hz CRT.

This is my first plasma. I had never heard of this issue in plasmas before, so I had to search for it. I didn't notice it in the store. It must be a rare observation, because this thread was pretty hard to find. But it is a real concern as it seems to be causing me eye-strain, the same reason I've had to avoid DLP like a plague.

I hope I don't have to return the set.

Well, after the buzzing, now this!
It seems I'm sensitive to pretty much every flaws of plasma sets.

It's a real PITA, I'm so amazed at the PQ, but I can hear the set buzz like crazy AND rainbow effects. I've had the set for 3 weeks now and I don't know what to do. Well, clearly there's nothing I CAN do... have to live with it. Haven't even watched a full lenght movie in the dark yet. Hope it doesn't get worse.

Yeah, it's all about which technology's annoyances you're more willing to live with. When I went HD a few years back, I started with an LCD. With the terrible viewing angles and terrible black levels, I exchanged it for a Panasonic plasma. I already knew about the trails and possible buzzing before I bought it, and it took a little while to accept these issues. Compared to LCD though, it was worth it to put up with the problems. Now I don't notice the trails as much (you really do notice them a lot more if you're thinking about it or looking for it), and I only hear the buzzing if I watch TV late at night with the volume low. As far as the buzzing though, CRTs would annoy my ears with their high pitched noise, so I was living with annoyances anyway.
I also notice the flickering that johnddx mentioned, but only on white parts of the screen when I'm really close (I was always really sensitive to refresh rates on CRT monitors). From as far back as I watch the set though, I don't notice it anymore. Watching further back does also help with the green trails. Because of this, I always say LCDs are great for computer monitors, and plasmas are great for TVs and not the other way around since IMO, LCDs are good close up and plasmas aren't.

Well, after the buzzing, now this!
It seems I'm sensitive to pretty much every flaws of plasma sets.

It's a real PITA, I'm so amazed at the PQ, but I can hear the set buzz like crazy AND rainbow effects. I've had the set for 3 weeks now and I don't know what to do. Well, clearly there's nothing I CAN do... have to live with it. Haven't even watched a full lenght movie in the dark yet. Hope it doesn't get worse.

I saw rainbows when I first got my Pioneer plasma and they went away in few weeks or I got used to them. So there is hope.

Thanks for cheering me up :cool:

Obviously I hope it'll get better.
My eyes may get "used" to watching a plasma panel. It's really only happened a few times, during high contrast scenes.

My ears, well, yeah I could hear the buzz from my CRT screen anyway so, well I didn't fix this problem, but it's not a new problem either in my case...

it's weird because I'm the only one of my friends who has a plasma and when they come over occasionally no one ever complains of seeing any rainbows. I don't either.

Count me in as another member of the people who see rainbows while watching a plasma TV club. A friend of mine got a Panasonic plasma set and within seconds of watching it, my eyes kept seeing flashes of rainbows. It was especially bad when watching credits on a movie.

I'm another one who sees it (mostly yellowish flashes) around bright whites. Also and whitish lettering or wording on a darker color background. I was catching them off the white lines on the stage of the Barrett Jackson car auction. Seeing on DVD's, Blue-Rays, HD and SD content. My wife, family and friends see nothing so I know it has to do with my personal visual anatomy. I love the TV but it's starting to drive me nuts. Hopefully, like an earlier poster, it will go away (get used to it) in a few weeks. Oh yeah, this is a Panny GT25 with an August 2010 manufacture date. I won't even go into how bad DLP drives me crazy.

Bryguy

I've purchased a TC-P65VT25, it was delivered two days ago. Almost immediately on Tivo HD sports recordings I started getting the sensation of flickering on the screen, in bright white areas (scores, uniforms, lines on the field, etc). Eventually I started to notice rainbow-like artifacts, mostly as I moved my eyes to different parts of the screen. The flickering sensation is constant, even if I hold my eyes in place, much like looking at a 60Hz CRT.

This is my first plasma. I had never heard of this issue in plasmas before, so I had to search for it. I didn't notice it in the store. It must be a rare observation, because this thread was pretty hard to find. But it is a real concern as it seems to be causing me eye-strain, the same reason I've had to avoid DLP like a plague.

I hope I don't have to return the set.

I have to return the set. I've applied D-Nice's settings, tried every video mode, every video source, every contrast level, dark rooms, dim rooms, bright rooms, and in all situations the fact remains: with certain content, the flicker and rainbow effects are painfully unbearable to my sense of vision. If it wasn't irritating, I might have given it a try to see if I could get used to it as others reportedly have, but I can't fathom the discomfort in the mean time.

I am not terribly unique; I can find quintessential examples of these problems, pause the content, and when I point them out to my wife, she agrees and can see exactly the same things. The only difference is that for me it's painful, whereas she doesn't mind it... and she may not even have noticed the issues if I hadn't pointed them out. Doesn't matter, if I can't watch it, she's not allowed to, either. :)

I went back to the store and confirmed that it's not a defective set: all VT25s are like this.

These are the kinds of scenes that give me problems:


White areas on the XBox 360 dashboard
White-ish areas in Kinect Adventures menus
Title screens on Blu-Ray disc menus, wherein there is white text on dark or colored backgrounds
White-Text on Black-Background Movie Credits
Scenes in which two people in dark coats walk towad the camera on a brightly day-lit sidewalk (the sidewalk will seperate into red/green/yellow, as the eyes move between the people)


I am perhaps as sensitive as they come. I have felt like throwing CRTs running at anything less than 72hz through a window, and even 72 is "just acceptable". I occasionally have to relocate our party at a restaurant, when an overhead light that flickers--in a way that apparently only I can see--makes me queazy while I read the menu. I'd rather work in the dark than contend with dubious fluorescent lighting at the office.

Still, I wish I had known these artifacts were even a possibility in plasma technology. I wouldn't have sold off my old tv already (a fool move in any case, perhaps). The more I read about how plasma works--especially from xrox's technical posts and references--it seems similar enough to CRT (in terms of the use of short-duty-cycle sub-pixel phosphors) that the possibility seems obvious in retrospect. At least for the flicker; I've never actually seen temporal color seperation on CRTs.

- John

I went back to the store and confirmed that it's not a defective set: all VT25s are like this.


Preliminary Note: All the sets discussed here produce images of gorgeous, misty-eyed color and beauty. This is what makes plasma so attractive. The opposing issue (for people like me) is the degree to which they present temporal artifacts that some people may be sensitive to, manifesting in eyestrain, headaches and/or nausea.

As I wrote above, I returned to the showroom to make sure that I could see the flickering and rainbow effects on the sets on display, and indeed I could.

I was able to view the VT25 in a darkened private toom, as well as on a wall of flat panels. The flicker and rainbow effects were apparent in both situations, but they were much more so in the private room, where they were apparent to the same degree I experience them at home. This helps explain how I overlooked the problem prior to buying the set, when I wasn't able to view it in a private room. It also indicates that the set presents this problem just as intensely after 1500 hours of use on a showroom floor as it does after only 100 hours at home: in other words, the problem won't reduce over time. Other people who are reporting that the symptoms go down over time are probably just able to get used to it.

Finally, I was able to compare the presentation of artifacts on the VT25 with two other sets: a Samsung PN63C8000, and a 65" Runco (whose model number I didn't care to write down on account of pricing outside of my range).

Samsung PN63C8000
Side-by-side with the Panasonic VT25, it was evident that the Panny was much worse in presenting symptoms of color seperation and flickering than the Samsung.
When I was able to look at my own content, which I know to cause problems on the VT25, the effects were reduced enough that it didn't cause me obvious eye-strain. The rainbows and flickering were still noticable, but barely so.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to view the Samsung in a private room, but based on how it compares with the Panny, it's conceivable that I could tolerate the artifacts on the Samsung long enough to get used to the set, as other people have reportedly done with theirs. However, in a private room it is likely the effects would be more apparent, so I'd give it a 50/50.


Runco 65" Plasma
I observed this one in a darkened private room, which should yield the worst manifestation of temporal artifacts. Yet, this set performed even better in these conditions than the Samsung. The whites were rock-solid, and I could perceive no flickering. I could still see mild (mild) color seperation, but it was not a bother at all. I'm convinced that I could enjoy this set for long periods of time, if only I could afford it.

Conclusion
As sensitive as I am to temporal artifacts like flickering and RBE (or plainbows, or color seperation, whatever you want to call them), I can say that there are differences between plasma displays. It is not sufficient to say that "these effects are germane to the plasma technology", because different manufacturers implement plasma differently, and can do so in way that presents temporal artifacts in different ways. This differences can be enough to make the artifacts tolerable, intolerable or even invisible to the same viewer. So, if you're concerned about these problems, make sure you look at all of your plasma options, don't dismiss them completely based on one experience.

-John

I notice this with my friends 46" C2 or U2 Panasonic Plasma. I can't recall which model he has, but I think he has the lowest model. Panasonic plasma and I find it distracting and it gives me a mild headache. It's not as bad as what I've had with DLP projectors. I think I also saw this effect with my other friends Panasonic 50" PX80. I see yellow and blue mainly. I also recall seeing a similar effect with rear projection CRT TV's, but it was mainly red and green. I guess if I ever get a plasma, I'll have to get something that has this minimized. I suppose I'll search this thread, as I was hoping that some sort of a faster re-fresh rate would reduce the effect.

This is very annoying!!! i have a vt25 and i couldnt figure out what i thought was weird about it until i saw this!

i also see the rainbow effect and dont know what to do. my wife doesn't see it. i am also prone to seeing those damn led tail lights do that blinking thing. i feel like i have to be really careful to avoid darting my eyes across the screen.

it isn't horrible but i keep forcing myself to look for it right now.

i just dropped down the contrast a bit, lets see if that helps. I really don't want to watch movies with all the lights on.

i am going to call the viera conceirge and see if they can do anything to fix this.

i thought plasmas were supposed to have the best refresh rates so i don't understand this.

i predominately see the problem on 1080i content as well. i am thinking of forcing everything to upconvert to 1080p and see if it is any better. i wish we had some fake frame doubler or something, dont know if that could help....

ughhh... any advice would be well appreciated. i am past the return period of my vt25 when i figured this out so that is no longer an option. i have +100 hours on my tv too after running calibration slides

So are there no different plasma technology out there that mitigate this by way of a different refresh rate? I think it has to do with the separate R G B pixels. I don't see this with LCD projectors.

Wow - so I'm not crazy. For the longest time I have seen the rainbows on my in-laws' Vizio plasma from a few years back.

I figured for myself that it was just their TV - as I don't see this problem on either of my Samsung plasma's. Maybe I could if I tried by shaking my eyes like crazy (great way to watch TV!) but in normal viewing I do not see it on my sets. In what I would call normal viewing on their Vizio, I see it for sure.

That being said, it's nowhere near as bad as the rainbows I see on a DLP. Part of that might have to do with the larger size of the image causing my eyes to move more.

This has been explained in this thread, though I'm not sure if anyone has posted this link which is a great explanation of what's happening:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/plasma-phosphor-trail-2007040133.htm

Also, this post (in this thread) shows a document from Panasonic saying they are reducing the lag of green and red to reduce the issue, though I'm not sure if this is in production and if so, if anyone has noticed an improvement.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17898423#post17898423

i am also prone to seeing those damn led tail lights do that blinking thing.

You are not alone. The new LED tail-lights and brake-lights drive me crazy - I see double images of them when I move my eyes while driving...

I also see phosphor trails in plasmas and rainbows galore (and I mean galore) in single-chip DLP projectors.

I guess it is some kind of sensitivity which most people don't have. I'd be interested to find out why certain individuals are more sensitive to those things than others.

So are there no different plasma technology out there that mitigate this by way of a different refresh rate? I think it has to do with the separate R G B pixels. I don't see this with LCD projectors.Phoshpor rise time and decay times are the source of the issue.

Blue phosphor rise and decay times are in the microsecond to nanosecond range

Greenand Red phosphor rise and decay times are in the millisecond range.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd126/xrox/PlasmaPhoshpordecay-1.jpg

I have issues with plasma as well but my problem would be more related to flickering, espicially on bright scenes and colors on plasma TV.

Uf you guys want an idea of what I see, try switching to 48hz when watching a bluray, you see flicking. I see this, on bright scenes, but at a faster pace. On dark scenes, I don't see this.

it ended up driving me crazy and the only reason I returned my G25.

According to this article
http://www.hdguru3d.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=226:panasonic-tc-p50vt20-3d-hdtv-hd-guru-exclusive-first-review&catid=35:hdguru3d-news&Itemid=59
it seems Panasonic did make some improvements with the phosphor lag. Does anyone have a 2010 or later set and notice an improvement?

For the first month or so I saw the phosphor trailing on my vt25. It appeared as a yellow,slight green color which was more visible when viewing bright moving areas on dark background. Seeing it out of the corner of my eye or when scanning over the screen area quickly was usually how I noticed it.

However... I don't see it anymore! I'm not positive as to the reasoning for this. I could have just gotten used to it and I subconsciously ignore the effect. Or maybe the phosphors break in somewhat; the lag time goes down. ? I did have the set calibrated after a couple months... maybe that is significant. The trailing effect is somewhat annoying, so I'm glad I don't have it anymore.

For the first month or so I saw the phosphor trailing on my vt25. It appeared as a yellow,slight green color which was more visible when viewing bright moving areas on dark background. Seeing it out of the corner of my eye or when scanning over the screen area quickly was usually how I noticed it.

However... I don't see it anymore! I'm not positive as to the reasoning for this. I could have just gotten used to it and I subconsciously ignore the effect. Or maybe the phosphors break in somewhat; the lag time goes down. ? I did have the set calibrated after a couple months... maybe that is significant. The trailing effect is somewhat annoying, so I'm glad I don't have it anymore.

That give me some hope!! Maybe i will try to age mine more with some slides...

When I first bought my 5080HD I could easily and frequently notice this rainbow effect just by barely moving my head while looking at the screen, but fast forward 3.2 years and I rarely ever notice it anymore, I believe this effect reduces over time as the plasma ages.

When I first bought my 5080HD I could easily and frequently notice this rainbow effect just by barely moving my head while looking at the screen, but fast forward 3.2 years and I rarely ever notice it anymore, I believe this effect reduces over time as the plasma ages.

It's not horrible for me and doesn't seem to cause serious headaches, like I've had with dlp rainbows....but, I think I did get a bit of a headache the last time. I wonder though if while the plasma ages and changes it's operating characteristics, the effect changes, and/or perhaps you can 'get used to it' over time and it becomes less of an issue. My friend doesn't notice it.

I see an artifact/effect similar to the Plasma phosphor trailing or the DLP rainbows on a Sony CRT rear projection set. It is visible when there's white lettering against a dark background and I move my eyes fast across the screen. The white letters produce yellow ghosts!

With LCD's, if the panel has a slow response time, I can see the trails caused by slow pixel transition times (more pronounced in high contrast scenes and when gray colors are involved).

I cannot spot any of these issues on a tube CRT.

Man, I really hope that OLED or the next best tech get rid of these issues. I want good viewing experience finally. :)

I just stumbled across the thread in my quest to find out more about the rainbow effect of a plasma.

I've always been sensitive to noises and visual irrgularities. Im one of the few people who i know who can a CRT monitor flicker at 60hz, rainbow streaks on a DLP projector, and now unfortunatly rainbow streaks on my new samsung c6400 plasma.

I have a htpc hookedup to the HDMI 1 port which is the one recommended by the manual to use if you are connecting it to a DVI out from a computer for example. I really noticed the rainbow effect. However when i load up my ps3 (on HDMI 4) i barely notice it at all. So i tried using the PC input instead for the htpc with a regular VGA cable instead and that has helped reduce how much of the rainbow effect i had.

i tried experimenting with "game mode" but it looks like i can only enable that for the input that the ps3 is connected to, not for all sources?

it didnt make things better or worse for the rainbow problem.

I feel like I just got into a secret club. I just got my first plasma, a Samsung PN59D8000 and noticed this while watching some blu-ray content with the lights off. I can only see it in dark scenes with some high contrast element and only if I move look from side to side. I haven't noticed it during normal TV viewing with brighter scenes.

Otherwise the set it beautiful. I suspect after a while I'll get used to it or learn to ignore it. My wife cannot see it, so it's just me (and you guys :)).

ps. For me, the effect is predominantly a red/yellow trail.

I bought my first plasma (Panasonic VT30) last week and started noticing this issue after a few days - at first I could'nt place my finger on what the issue was but then I noticed the yellow and blue streaks after bright white objects (lines, texts, etc) when moving my eyes. Very strange phenomenon and right now it 's hard not see anything else :(

I did a google search and found this thread... never heard about this problem before (so I wasn't looking for it) and saddend by it because the image quality is otherwise fantastic on the VT30, but straining on my eyes.

Have you guys gotten used to it or is there a way to minimize or eliminate it (a setting on the TV, viewing distance, lighting)?

Thanks in advance.

I have a VT25, and noticed it when I first got it. I rarely see it and when I do it never bothers me...unlike RBE on projectors. I do use bias lighting behind my set, not sure if that helps the overall condition or not.

Is this like the 'coloured static' I see whenever white or bright colours are moving on my VT30?

I try to ignore it now, but it definitely would have been a minus for plasma (beside many plusses) when I was deciding what to buy.

I bought last year a Panasonic G25 and after a week, I returned it. The flickering in bright colors/scene was very distracting. I didn't really notice it in the store as it was a very bright environement but at home, on my mancave where it's usually pretty dark, it was very noticeable, espicially when I was playing the slides to age the screen uniformely.

If the scenes was pretty dark, I woudn't really notice it, but tv adds with bright color background with texte would show it immediately. Ultimately, I wasn't sure I could get used to it so I returned the TV. Too bad because as others have said, I really love the PQ and the view angle.

Even today, I am yet to pick a new TV and keep looking at the plasma wondering if I could live through this. Getting a large TV with this level of PQ on the LED/LCD side is so much more expensive.

I have 3 older plasmas in the house (Panny V10, Samsung B series) and have never noticed this rainbow issue which I heard was mostly on DLP tv's.

I recently bought a new Samsung D7000 series and immediately noticed the rainbows. I thought it was me being tired, I didn't relize Plasmas could do this. They must have done something to the technology to introduce this in search of better black levels since I do not notice this on my other 3 plasma's.

I'm really concerned about upgrading now.:confused:

This has been explained in this thread, though I'm not sure if anyone has posted this link which is a great explanation of what's happening:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/plasma-phosphor-trail-2007040133.htm

Also, this post (in this thread) shows a document from Panasonic saying they are reducing the lag of green and red to reduce the issue, though I'm not sure if this is in production and if so, if anyone has noticed an improvement.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17898423#post17898423

Just read this article and my problem could be the high Contrast setting that the D7000 seems to be require.

Will turn down and see if it stops.

Does anyone have a newer model of Panasonic plasma that advertises this in the product overview? It seems most of the new models on their website advertise this and it would be interesting to hear from someone who sees this effect if the newer models have helped the issue.

Fast Switching Phosphor

The use of fast switching phosphors has significantly reduced afterglow duration and reproduced clear 3D and 2D images. Fast switching phosphors are used in all full HD models.

What does the rainbow effect look like if they really are showing a rainbow on the plasma?

When I first got my 50" C7000, I noticed 'rainbowing' as well for it seemed like the first week. I haven't seen ANY 'rainbowing' after the first week or two. Maybe I had to just let my eyes adjust?

When I first got my 50" C7000, I noticed 'rainbowing' as well for it seemed like the first week. I haven't seen ANY 'rainbowing' after the first week or two. Maybe I had to just let my eyes adjust?

Yes, your eyes do adjust and it isn't as annoying.

Phoshpor rise time and decay times are the source of the issue.

Blue phosphor rise and decay times are in the microsecond to nanosecond range

Greenand Red phosphor rise and decay times are in the millisecond range.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd126/xrox/PlasmaPhoshpordecay-1.jpg

Wow I think this explains exactly what I'm seeing. I know that the colours go weird when things are moving but playing around I noticed it is red/blue static when things are turning white and green when they are going dark again.

For example if I drag a white window around my dark desktop I see red/blue static and a purple smudge on the leading edge inside the window and green smudge that follows the trailing edge. This makes sense if the red/blue 'turn on' before the greens do and then the greens take longer to 'turn off'. Fast phosphors my ass. I think I'd rather have LCD blurring at this point at least the colours don't fall apart.

I think it might be official that I regret buying this TV. Other than viewing angles and black level everything about the picture is a disappointment. Between phosphor lag, line bleed, fluctuating brightness and image retention it never seems to run out of ways to annoy me.

I read a recent patent applicatin today from Panasonic that suggests a method of using multiple phosphors (layers or mixtures) per cell that convert wavelengths. They claim that they can achieve below 1ms decay for all three colors (including green ;)). This would eliminated phosphor decay, cross-talk, and improve motion resolution as well.

Of course this is being researched to eliminate cross-talk but I thought some that are bothered by phosphor lag would like to hear this as well.

Unfortunately, this is a single patent from a single author which is not the best sign of viability IMO.