Also, besides the fact that the TiVo has that SD closed captioning bug

Do you have more detail on this bug?

The hard drive capacity is a huge issue for HD programming. Other than that, the superiority of Tivo is not nearly as clear as the cultists would have you believe...

Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind. Failed Replay owner? TiVo's software is far superior to any other box on the market. Any fair evaluation reveals that. There are certain quirks that other dvr's have over TiVo but all in all, until one comes out that is better, TiVo is the best, like it or not.

Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind. Failed Replay owner? TiVo's software is far superior to any other box on the market. Any fair evaluation reveals that. There are certain quirks that other dvr's have over TiVo but all in all, until one comes out that is better, TiVo is the best, like it or not.
We will see. MOXI will be out in the fall.

And I'll be the first to admit if it's better. I'm actually hoping it is, figuring it may be cheaper.

Do you have more detail on this bug?A little. Basically it occurs with SD programs on cable nets where the cable system inserts commercials. There are a few of us who have experienced it, in different locales. It only affects the TiVo Series 3. Other DVRs, whether digital or analog, aren't affected. Right after the insert, and for the rest of that recording, NO closed captions are displayed. Pausing and restarting doesn't make a difference -- the data is simply not there. If you rewind, to before the insert, then the captions are fine.

TiVo has an engineering file open, but hasn't taken any action because so few hearing impaired folks have complained, from what I've been told.

...Right after the insert, and for the rest of that recording, new closed captions are displayed...
I think you meant to say "NO closed captions are displayed..."??

We will see. MOXI will be out in the fall.

Is the dvd/cd drive in the Moxi a burner or read-only?

A little. Basically it occurs with SD programs on cable nets where the cable system inserts commercials. There are a few of us who have experienced it, in different locales. It only affects the TiVo Series 3. Other DVRs, whether digital or analog, aren't affected. Right after the insert, and for the rest of that recording, new closed captions are displayed. Pausing and restarting doesn't make a difference -- the data is simply not there. If you rewind, to before the insert, then the captions are fine.

TiVo has an engineering file open, but hasn't taken any action because so few hearing impaired folks have complained, from what I've been told.

Thanks for the explanation! I noticed this a couple of times and couldn't figure out what happened. (Not with TiVo - and by that I mean I don't have a TiVo).

Perhaps it's a variation on the "whack-a-mole" bug (possibly because of overlapping):
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs#Simultaneous_series_recording_cancellation_problem.2C_a ka_whack-a-mole

yup, that's it

thanks for the link, now i know how to get around it :)

speaking of "duplicate channels"

i get my HD pay channels on 2 different channels

one bank of channels is the "HD" bank and hbo max sho & starz are channels 215 through 227 in the "hi def" bank

but they are also duplicated up in the 300's in the "premium channel" bank

now here's what's weird. i have a weak signal in one room and only during the day. but it only effects the 200's bank of hi def channels

i can watch the identical hi def channels up in the 300's bank with no problem, hbo max sho & starz (all HD) are 300 319 339 and 369, all being identical to 215, 219, 223 and 227 respectively

very odd

i understand from the cable guy that each bank of channels uses a different frequency which would explain why a week signal would effect one bank and not the others but it also makes me think that they can't be sharing the same bandwidth and that duplicate channels are not just the result of mapping

i could be wrong about that, maybe someone who is more tech savvy would know

I think you meant to say "NO closed captions are displayed..."??Yes, sorry... I did mean "NO closed captions are displayed..."

Thanks for the explanation! I noticed this a couple of times and couldn't figure out what happened. (Not with TiVo - and by that I mean I don't have a TiVo).Whoa... that's very important information. As far as any of us have heard, no other boxes exhibit this problem. Could you please provide details? Is your experience exactly like what I described, including losing the CC always right after a commercial break, and only experiencing this on SD cable nets? Also what box do you have? and what cable system are you on? Thanks for any assistance you can provide!

Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind. Failed Replay owner? TiVo's software is far superior to any other box on the market.

No axe here. Sure, Tivo has advantages, but how meaningful those advantages are depends on how you use the box...

And how much discretionary income you have. Some folks spend money on TiVo like others spend money on the opera, for example.

Oh, one other thing about Tivo - its customer service makes even Comcast look good.

At TiVo, it's not so much their "customer service" people. The CSRs, specifically (i.e., the folks who handle billing and such), at TiVo have always been VERY helpful and very courteous. The issues are more a matter of the tech support folks being surly and unhelpful. It has been getting better AFAIC, though.

I have used Direct TV Tivo for two years before switching to a 3416. After programming 30 second skip and a couple other such things, I am perfectly at home with the 3416. At least feature-wise. Everything being equal, I would take Tivo over 3416 any day. But I wouldn't pay the exorbitant charge that Tivo wants for the little niceties it has.

As mentioned above, FF speed and watching TV while browsing your recordings are two good things about 3416. While Tivo's uncluttered, very organized UI is the only advantage Tivo has. However, 3416 has various small recording bugs that tips the scale in Tivo's favor slightly.

One feature of 3416 that was missing in Tivo is recording across channels. In Tivo you have to create separate season passes for a program (say, Ask this old house, on PBS, A&E and so forth) but 3416 lets you record all episodes on various channels with one setting.

Differences like these are not hugely important IMHO. What is important is if your wife and kid can use it without too much problems. And I have not had too many problems on that front.

...One feature of 3416 that was missing in Tivo is recording across channels. In Tivo you have to create separate season passes for a program (say, Ask this old house, on PBS, A&E and so forth) but 3416 lets you record all episodes on various channels with one setting...
To record "across channels" on a TiVo I use Wish Lists instead of Season Passes.

At TiVo, it's not so much their "customer service" people. The CSRs, specifically (i.e., the folks who handle billing and such), at TiVo have always been VERY helpful and very courteous. The issues are more a matter of the tech support folks being surly and unhelpful.

Last time I tried calling Tivo, getting thru was a nightmare. Not only did it take forever to get thru, but they played the most obnoxious music I've ever heard, repeated over and over endlessly...

I've never understood why corporate voicemail systems don't provide the caller an option to have silence instead of their stupid music. Or even options for different kinds of music.

As mentioned above, FF speed and watching TV while browsing your recordings are two good things about 3416. While Tivo's uncluttered, very organized UI is the only advantage Tivo has.

Wellll, even I, with my alleged ax to grind, would hafta say that Tivo has a few advantages other than the UI. Just off the top of my head, there's the hard disk capacity and the smooth operation of FF and REW.

In some areas, the Dish Network DVR had them both beat...

Last time I tried calling Tivo, getting thru was a nightmare. Not only did it take forever to get thru, but they played the most obnoxious music I've ever heard, repeated over and over endlessly...

I've never understood why corporate voicemail systems don't provide the caller an option to have silence instead of their stupid music. Or even options for different kinds of music.

On the other hand, I called TiVO with a problem about my series 1 unit that's about a hundred years old. I called late on a Sunday evening, expecting nothing, and I could not be more satisfied with the help I got from a CSR. Maybe I just hit the right guy at the right time, but I think that's the case with any of them, whether it be TiVO, DirecTV or Comcast. I've found if you don't like the CSR within the first 30 seconds of the call, you say thank you, hang up, call right back, and do this til you get someone you like (and, hopefully, speaks English).

I've found if you don't like the CSR within the first 30 seconds of the call, you say thank you, hang up, call right back, and do this til you get someone you like (and, hopefully, speaks English).

I agree, except that it was a nightmare to get thru to Tivo in the first place, wouldn't wanna go thru that again to get another CSR...

I've never understood why corporate voicemail systems don't provide the caller an option to have silence instead of their stupid music. Or even options for different kinds of music.So service quality is basically a matter of paying the right on-hold music? :D

I agree, except that it was a nightmare to get thru to Tivo in the first place, wouldn't wanna go thru that again to get another CSR...I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but I simply haven't had that kind of problem.

Back to the 3412...still playing, but here's a new one for me. Started watching a program still being recorded...when it ended, a window popped up say Your Recorded Program Has Finished Recordeing, or something similar to that. It stayed on the screen for 5 seconds or so. Any way to eliminate that happening? I found it annoying.

Back to the 3412...still playing, but here's a new one for me. Started watching a program still being recorded...when it ended, a window popped up say Your Recorded Program Has Finished Recordeing, or something similar to that. It stayed on the screen for 5 seconds or so. Any way to eliminate that happening? I found it annoying.

No way to disable that 'feature' that I know of, if you want to get rid of it quickly though just press the 'Exit' button on remote to clear it.

No way to disable that 'feature' that I know of, if you want to get rid of it quickly though just press the 'Exit' button on remote to clear it.
Figured as much. Thanks.

At TiVo, it's not so much their "customer service" people. The CSRs, specifically (i.e., the folks who handle billing and such), at TiVo have always been VERY helpful and very courteous. The issues are more a matter of the tech support folks being surly and unhelpful. It has been getting better AFAIC, though.

A lot of places are very efficient at accepting payments or cashing checks :) The IRS cashes a tax payment the next day, but it takes them weeks to send us back our refunds :)

Whoa... that's very important information. As far as any of us have heard, no other boxes exhibit this problem. Could you please provide details? Is your experience exactly like what I described, including losing the CC always right after a commercial break, and only experiencing this on SD cable nets? Also what box do you have? and what cable system are you on? Thanks for any assistance you can provide!

Unfortunately I don't remember a lot of details. I remember that I started watching the program with captions and they were gone at some point and came back after the program ended and the DVR returned to another channel on the live tuner. I remember trying to FF/BF to see if I could get them back but they seemed to be stopping at a point.

As far as the device I am not sure which combination it was (eg watching directly from DVR, via dvd recorder, or recording of a DVR program, or recording of RF). If it was a DVR, it was either a Comcast Moto 6412 (I had two different phases) or a 3412 and if a recorder was involved it would be the panasonic es20.

As far as the channels, the ones that come to my mind (again this is a bit sketchy) are ABC (2-99) (I think this one may have been on the Panasonic recorder directly recording from split RF cable), Scifi (2-99) and BBC America (digital). Again this is from memory, so it could be wrong. I usually turn CC on for british shows and on SciiFi so I can get the proper names and spelling of all the made-up words.

I will definitely keep on eye out for them if I notice it again and make a note of the circumstances and let you know.

Back to the 3412...still playing, but here's a new one for me. Started watching a program still being recorded...when it ended, a window popped up say Your Recorded Program Has Finished Recordeing, or something similar to that. It stayed on the screen for 5 seconds or so. Any way to eliminate that happening? I found it annoying.

Mine seems to stay on there for like 20 or 30 seconds. I hate it with a passion.

But no, I don't know how to get rid of it.

Mine seems to stay on there for like 20 or 30 seconds. I hate it with a passion.

But no, I don't know how to get rid of it.

Mine could also have very well been that long, but I just thought, hey, that couldn't possibly be that long. But, as mentioned earlier, I could have just hit the "exit" button....but, there should be a way to shut that thing off. Sort of like a "pop-up blocker" on your browser. Or something like that.

Mine could also have very well been that long, but I just thought, hey, that couldn't possibly be that long. But, as mentioned earlier, I could have just hit the "exit" button....but, there should be a way to shut that thing off. Sort of like a "pop-up blocker" on your browser. Or something like that.

It's just one of the dozens of items that should be user-controlled options...

I will definitely keep on eye out for them if I notice it again and make a note of the circumstances and let you know.Thanks! The only way hearing impaired folks are going to get this issue addressed is perhaps for folks with their own rented equipment to report the problem.

Mine seems to stay on there for like 20 or 30 seconds. I hate it with a passion.

But no, I don't know how to get rid of it.

I thought if you pressed 'Exit' it got rid of that message.

I thought if you pressed 'Exit' it got rid of that message.
YEs, pressing exit does get rid of it, but there should (in my opinion, anyway) be an option somewhere so that it does not appear, as on your computer, where there's a little box with pop-ups that says "check here if you don't wish to see this again."

Hey gang I seem to be having a hardware issue with the dvr function on my 3416 STB. Yesterday I was unable to pause live tv or playback shows that were in my DVR library. When I tried to do either of the aformentioned things, the screen would go blank and I would have to hit the channel changer button to get it to snap out of that state. This morning I unplugged the STB for a minute, plugged it back up and the problem seemed to be fixed. The dvr seemed to be fully functional. Later on today I went to watch something from my library of shows and the playback wasn't as smooth as it should be. It's rather difficult to explain... It was as if there was a constant skip in the playback.

I tried play some things back earlier tonight and it appeared to work fine. Are these symptoms of a DVR that's going bad or is there another explanation? Initially I was going to just skip this board, skip comcast customer support and just take the box to the comcast HQ and get a new one, but I figured I'd ask you guys before proceeding.

Hey gang I seem to be having a hardware issue with the dvr function on my 3416 STB. Yesterday I was unable to pause live tv or playback shows that were in my DVR library. When I tried to do either of the aformentioned things, the screen would go blank and I would have to hit the channel changer button to get it to snap out of that state. This morning I unplugged the STB for a minute, plugged it back up and the problem seemed to be fixed. The dvr seemed to be fully functional. Later on today I went to watch something from my library of shows and the playback wasn't as smooth as it should be. It's rather difficult to explain... It was as if there was a constant skip in the playback.

I tried play some things back earlier tonight and it appeared to work fine. Are these symptoms of a DVR that's going bad or is there another explanation? Initially I was going to just skip this board, skip comcast customer support and just take the box to the comcast HQ and get a new one, but I figured I'd ask you guys before proceeding.

This seems to be a common issue with the Moto boxes--I've experienced it with my current 3416, and 2 other previous models. The cache gets filled and causes the box to become very laggy and freeze up. Call Comcast and tell them the issue and they will send a signal to your box which will reboot it and clear the cache.

Supposedly this will be rectified when/if they roll out the TiVo interface, which is much less of a memory hog. Comcast recently reduced the number of days of program guide, to help address the issue, but it still exists.

Thanks a lot for the insight :). It seems to be back in full working order at the moment. If problems arise again I'll do as you suggested.

This seems to be a common issue with the Moto boxes--I've experienced it with my current 3416, and 2 other previous models. The cache gets filled and causes the box to become very laggy and freeze up. Call Comcast and tell them the issue and they will send a signal to your box which will reboot it and clear the cache.

But keep in mind that this will possibly delete all your recordings...

But keep in mind that this will possibly delete all your recordings...

The first time I called Comcast with this issue, they said they would send a signal to my box to reset it. I asked if this would delete my saved programs or series recordings, and they said it wouldn't. The subsequent times I've called for this issue, I ask the same questions, and get the same answer. Haven't had anything deleted.

The first time I called Comcast with this issue, they said they would send a signal to my box to reset it. I asked if this would delete my saved programs or series recordings, and they said it wouldn't. The subsequent times I've called for this issue, I ask the same questions, and get the same answer.

Yup, that's always their answer. Apparently if the box sees any sorta file corruption on reboot, it decides to spontaneously reformat (with no warning), which wipes out everything. No way to tell if this is gonna happen...

But keep in mind that this will possibly delete all your recordings...
No more of a risk than unplugging the box. You can do everything from home that a rep can do over the phone. Sending a "hit" to the box just reboots it, like pulling the plug. They can also send signals to re-download the firm/software and reformat, which you can also do on your own. But as far as spontaneous reformatting goes, the risk involved in having a rep send a signal to the box is equal to pulling the plug.

In any event, pulling the plug clears the cache, just as a reboot from a signal does. No need to call.

No more of a risk than unplugging the box. You can do everything from home that a rep can do over the phone. Sending a "hit" to the box just reboots it, like pulling the plug. They can also send signals to re-download the firm/software and reformat, which you can also do on your own. But as far as spontaneous reformatting goes, the risk involved in having a rep send a signal to the box is equal to pulling the plug.

Yup, saves the aggravation of a phone call. But the possibility of wiping out the drive is pretty scary in either case. Hard to imagine they'd be stupid enough to allow something like that with no warning to the user. It's simply Comcastic.

I've had my Comcast 3416 box for about 2 months now and hadn't had any problems saving programs up until 2 weeks ago, when I unplugged it for about 4 plus hours. When I powered it back up, all of my saved programming was gone :( . I tried the power down/power up reboot, but nothing returned. Fortunately for me, the majority of the saved HD movie content was still playing on cable, so I just re-recorded them. Bummer if this happens when the new season of "24" and "DeadWood" start up :p .

Bummer if this happens when the new season of "24" and "DeadWood" start up :p .

Sorry mate, "Deadwood" is dead! They canceled the series a while ago. :confused:

Still new to the Moto boxes...quick question, not sure about this..
If power is lost (as happens frequently where I am), or the box needs to be unplugged to re-locate it, are the programs recorded lost? I seem to remember reading somewhere here that if the box reboots, all is lost. Or is a "reboot" something different from just unplugging it?

Still new to the Moto boxes...quick question, not sure about this..
If power is lost (as happens frequently where I am), or the box needs to be unplugged to re-locate it, are the programs recorded lost? I seem to remember reading somewhere here that if the box reboots, all is lost. Or is a "reboot" something different from just unplugging it?

Power loss should not delete recorded programs or settings.

However, should the box be disconnected from the cable line and it can't "phone home", then you will NOT be able to play back your saved content until the communication link is restored.

YMMV

Still new to the Moto boxes...quick question, not sure about this..
If power is lost (as happens frequently where I am), or the box needs to be unplugged to re-locate it, are the programs recorded lost? I seem to remember reading somewhere here that if the box reboots, all is lost. Or is a "reboot" something different from just unplugging it?
Power-cycling the box, or having it reboot after a firmware/software update or check shouldn't affect recordings or scheduled recordings.

That said, the latest firmware or software seems to be more likely to erase everything on a reboot. It may be over-sensitive to some minor corruption.

Power loss should not delete recorded programs or settings.

This is true, but I have mine on an u.p.s. just in case. ;)

I didn't go back too far to see if anyone had posted this already, but I just got a letter from Comcast stating that as of Sept. 3rd the price of my monthly DVR service will be increasing by $3.00 (from 9.95 to 12.95). As I write this, I am speaking with a Comcast rep., and she is stating that at this time there are no differences in service related to the price increase. Yet, as I read the letter, it states that they (Comcast) are "building the next generation of DVR services and DVR-specific interactive guides". She mentioned nothing regarding that. I asked her if they were just jacking up the price, and she pretty much said yes. :rolleyes:

Anyone else get a letter? If so, does anyone know of these changes being made, if any? I might concider keeping my second DCT-3416 if the new Tivo-like guide is what the letter is referring to. If not, I will return the 3416 in the bedroom, replace it with a spare ReplayTv, and they will actually loose money from this customer. :mad:

I didn't go back too far to see if anyone had posted this already, but I just got a letter from Comcast stating that as of Sept. 3rd the price of my monthly DVR service will be increasing by $3.00 (from 9.95 to 12.95).
...




Welcome to our world. It's been $11.95 in Seattle since the first of the year.

I got the letter too. I hate it. Its just over my limit. I think I will evaluate the alternatives as well.

The DVR fee is now comparable to the TiVo service fee. It's a fair and reasonable fee. Without doing a lot of manual work every week to set up and manage recordings on a VCR or DVR recorder, it is among the best currently-manufactured options for people who care about recording their favorite programs. If you have extra money laying around, and don't care about closed captioning on SD cable net programs, and don't care about On Demand, and don't care about PPV, and aren't worried about SDV, then the TiVo HD would be a good upgrade option for you.

But, the 3416 has and still does have a lot of issues. I am going to wait for the new MOXI retail version coming out this fall. It is just as good or even better than TIVO3 and can do all those things the TIVO presently cannot do. Also, there is a chance that the MOXI will not have the monthly service charge. That is just a possibility. They are not sure yet.

http://moxi.com/

I didn't go back too far to see if anyone had posted this already, but I just got a letter from Comcast stating that as of Sept. 3rd the price of my monthly DVR service will be increasing by $3.00 (from 9.95 to 12.95). As I write this, I am speaking with a Comcast rep., and she is stating that at this time there are no differences in service related to the price increase. Yet, as I read the letter, it states that they (Comcast) are "building the next generation of DVR services and DVR-specific interactive guides". She mentioned nothing regarding that. I asked her if they were just jacking up the price, and she pretty much said yes. :rolleyes:
With the CableCard mandate, they are using that as an excuse to increase prices. Plus, the newer DCH series boxes probably cost more.

The $3 increase in the rental rate for the DVR probably has nothing to do with the CableCard mandate. That rate hasn't been increased in a while, and it is therefore likely that this increase was in the cards on its own merit.

The DVR fee is now comparable to the TiVo service fee. It's a fair and reasonable fee. Without doing a lot of manual work every week to set up and manage recordings on a VCR or DVR recorder, it is among the best currently-manufactured options for people who care about recording their favorite programs. If you have extra money laying around, and don't care about closed captioning on SD cable net programs, and don't care about On Demand, and don't care about PPV, and aren't worried about SDV, then the TiVo HD would be a good upgrade option for you.

I don't know what logic you use but just because Tivo does it, doesn't make it fair and reasonable. The only reason I have stayed away from Tivo is because the fees seems exorbitant. Directv and Dish network charge 5-6 bucks extra for DVRs and I am sure they make some profit on that.

I don't also see why because it does automatically all the things that VCR's did manually, it should cost more. No offence but your logic really sucks. :-)

As I see it, they have a few programmers writing an application (that has alot of bugs to begin with but thats besides the point). Once the program is written, there is no additional cost Comcast has over and above that which they don't otherwise have. Simple as that.

just because Tivo does it, doesn't make it fair and reasonable. I agree. It is fair and reasonable on its own merits. What made you think I said anything other?

The only reason I have stayed away from Tivo is because the fees seems exorbitant.However, they're not. They reflect the value that customers in general perceive in the service offering.

No offence but your logic really sucks. :-)No, you just don't like it. That's okay. However, do be aware that the more your reject how things are, the more bitter and disappointed you'll become.

...nothing to do with the CableCard mandate. That rate hasn't been increased in a while, and it is therefore likely that this increase was in the cards on its own merit.
Nice Pun!

I don't know what logic you use but just because Tivo does it, doesn't make it fair and reasonable. The only reason I have stayed away from Tivo is because the fees seems exorbitant. Directv and Dish network charge 5-6 bucks extra for DVRs and I am sure they make some profit on that.

I don't also see why because it does automatically all the things that VCR's did manually, it should cost more. No offence but your logic really sucks. :-)

As I see it, they have a few programmers writing an application (that has alot of bugs to begin with but thats besides the point). Once the program is written, there is no additional cost Comcast has over and above that which they don't otherwise have. Simple as that.


The fee is also for maintaining the software.

ajwees41

I've been dealing with a persistent problem that is becoming more frequent and harder to fix. While watching an HD recording from my 3416 connected by HDMI-DVI, the audio will quit after fast forwarding through commercials. The cure I've used in the past is to switch tuners and then change channels. I might have to do that a couple of times (switching between HD and non-HD channels) before the audio kicks back in.

Today, watching my recording of the PGA golf from Firestone on VSGLF, the audio stopped after FF. I tried my usual tricks but the sound did not reappear. I even tried turning off the box but it wouldn't respond to the remote "power off" nor to pressing the power button on the front. The box was responding to all other commands except for power. Since I was still recording the program, my very last resort would be to unplug the box.

I was finally able to restore the audio but it took lots of channel changing to do it over about 15 minutes. Am I wearing out the cure and is it time to get a new box? I couldn't find this particular bug in the wiki.

I've been dealing with a persistent problem that is becoming more frequent and harder to fix. While watching an HD recording from my 3416 connected by HDMI-DVI, the audio will quit after fast forwarding through commercials. The cure I've used in the past is to switch tuners and then change channels. I might have to do that a couple of times (switching between HD and non-HD channels) before the audio kicks back in.

Today, watching my recording of the PGA golf from Firestone on VSGLF, the audio stopped after FF. I tried my usual tricks but the sound did not reappear. I even tried turning off the box but it wouldn't respond to the remote "power off" nor to pressing the power button on the front. The box was responding to all other commands except for power. Since I was still recording the program, my very last resort would be to unplug the box.

I was finally able to restore the audio but it took lots of channel changing to do it over about 15 minutes. Am I wearing out the cure and is it time to get a new box? I couldn't find this particular bug in the wiki.

Have you tried a pause/play? I've had audio drop out sometimes when there is a signal glitch, and not come back. You can also see about programming a remote key with the box's MUTE command so you can see if that will unmute it.

Just swapped my 6412 for a 3416, hoping that I would get my surround sound back. No Dice. My Pioneer 72xtv still tells me I'm only getting L/R from the optical digital audio out. Also my FIL just got a Yamaha RXV1600 and I noticed that his 6412 also only get L/R out of the optical digital audio. Wtf? Did they switch off DD5.1 for our area? I used to get it for select content, and almost always for VOD. Any ideas?

"I've been dealing with a persistent problem that is becoming more frequent and harder to fix. While watching an HD recording from my 3416 connected by HDMI-DVI, the audio will quit after fast forwarding through commercials. The cure I've used in the past is to switch tuners and then change channels. I might have to do that a couple of times (switching between HD and non-HD channels) before the audio kicks back in.

Today, watching my recording of the PGA golf from Firestone on VSGLF, the audio stopped after FF. I tried my usual tricks but the sound did not reappear. I even tried turning off the box but it wouldn't respond to the remote "power off" nor to pressing the power button on the front. The box was responding to all other commands except for power. Since I was still recording the program, my very last resort would be to unplug the box.

I was finally able to restore the audio but it took lots of channel changing to do it over about 15 minutes. Am I wearing out the cure and is it time to get a new box? I couldn't find this particular bug in the wiki."

I had this same audio dropout with mines. I was watching a live hd channel and rewinded back a little to check something I missed. Once I hit play the sound was gone. I changed channels switched tuners and even tried going to On-demand with no luck. I finally just unplugged the thing for awhile and got it to come back. I've done this twice now. my old 6412 never did this.

Just swapped my 6412 for a 3416, hoping that I would get my surround sound back. No Dice. My Pioneer 72xtv still tells me I'm only getting L/R from the optical digital audio out. Also my FIL just got a Yamaha RXV1600 and I noticed that his 6412 also only get L/R out of the optical digital audio. Wtf? Did they switch off DD5.1 for our area? I used to get it for select content, and almost always for VOD. Any ideas?
First, look at the Dolby logo on the info screen when you press INFO on the remote. Typically, only HD channels are 5.1, although there are exceptions (The Tube, a music video broadcast subchannel (WGN 9.2) also carried on Comcast, is 5.1.)

Some have reported 5.1 issues when using HDMI cables, which carry digital audio. The TV tells the box it only supports 2.0, so it sets itself to that. As a test, try disconnecting HDMI if you are using it, and try the component connection. If that fixes it, then you can try using some form of HDMI/DVI/HDMI adapters, which should cut the audio connection.

Allright, I lost power for a few minutes, and now my 3412 guide is completely gone. It's been about 15 minutes, and there are no listings at all. None. How long does it take for them to re-appear? This truly bites it, as we lose power here often. Yet another TiVO advantage, I guess.

Allright, I lost power for a few minutes, and now my 3412 guide is completely gone. It's been about 15 minutes, and there are no listings at all. None. How long does it take for them to re-appear? This truly bites it, as we lose power here often. Yet another TiVO advantage, I guess.

It takes 24-48 hours to receive all two+ weeks. Today's listing will take 1/14th of that so probably 1-4 hours. I have my DVR plugged into a weak UPS (as well as my AVR and set) to not only keep this from happening but also because it protects it from under/over voltage's as well. Definitely worth the $50-$80's for the protection.

First, look at the Dolby logo on the info screen when you press INFO on the remote. Typically, only HD channels are 5.1, although there are exceptions (The Tube, a music video broadcast subchannel (WGN 9.2) also carried on Comcast, is 5.1.)

Some have reported 5.1 issues when using HDMI cables, which carry digital audio. The TV tells the box it only supports 2.0, so it sets itself to that. As a test, try disconnecting HDMI if you are using it, and try the component connection. If that fixes it, then you can try using some form of HDMI/DVI/HDMI adapters, which should cut the audio connection.

I have an SDTV set, and I use Optical Digital audio cables. The info screen's have said DD 5.1, but maybe they now only mean for the HDTV simulcast? They definitely USED to give me DD 5.1 a year or so ago. I'll try switching to the HDTV simulcast channel (although I'm not sure it will come in since I'm only going through S-video out). Should VOD also have DD 5.1 as well? Because that also doesn't work with ANY content available.

Edit: Well how about that, looks like they just don't send DD 5.1 to ANY SDTV channels anymore. Most HDTV channels (even when marked as DD5.1) don't output it either. I did get HGTV(HD) to output dd5.1 though, so it's definitely working. (if that's what you call it). Sigh.

Allright, I lost power for a few minutes, and now my 3412 guide is completely gone. It's been about 15 minutes, and there are no listings at all. None. How long does it take for them to re-appear? This truly bites it, as we lose power here often. Yet another TiVO advantage, I guess.

Yeah that does suck about these boxes. Usually guide data should be starting to repopulate within about 15 minutes for the current time frame (takes quite a few hours for whole guide to fill in). Doesn't matter if power goes out for 2 seconds or 2 hours, all data is gone.

It takes 24-48 hours to receive all two+ weeks. Today's listing will take 1/14th of that so probably 1-4 hours. I have my DVR plugged into a weak UPS (as well as my AVR and set) to not only keep this from happening but also because it protects it from under/over voltage's as well. Definitely worth the $50-$80's for the protection.

Alright, let me show my stupidity by saying, What's a UPS (other than where I get packages)? I assume it's some kind of battery backup...?

Alright, let me show my stupidity by saying, What's a UPS (other than where I get packages)? I assume it's some kind of battery backup...?
Uninterruptible Power Supply. Determine what your longest power outage time is (ignoring a disaster) and get an UPS that will power the recorder for at least that long.

Uninterruptible Power Supply. Determine what your longest power outage time is (ignoring a disaster) and get an UPS that will power the recorder for at least that long.
Interesting...sounds just like what I need here. Any recommendations? I'd need it for just the cable box so that I don't lose the guide during a temporary power outage...at least until Comcast has TiVO software.

Interesting...sounds just like what I need here. Any recommendations? I'd need it for just the cable box so that I don't lose the guide during a temporary power outage...at least until Comcast has TiVO software.
The bestbuy in Salem, NH, near us, has a pallet of CyberPower UPS's that they are clearing out at ~$50's. Personally I think you should have all expensive electronics hooked up to these things. Especially if you live in a house that is 50+ years old. (most of NE) Otherwise, I consider APC one of the top of the line brands. To just power your cable box, any size UPS will probably power it for at least 50mins if the power goes off. Especially if you power it down (since your TV and AVR won't work anymore without power) when you lose power. I have my AVR, DVD, DVR, 58" Projection, and HTPC all plugged into a relatively low power APC 550VR (I think it is rated at 350 watts), it will power all that stuff when losing power for 5-10 mins. Freaked my wife out the first time we lost power as she though some one was in the basement playing with the box. :)

Sometimes you can find them on super discount on slickdeals.net (like FAR or $5-$15) but generally they go for $60-$150 depending on how much power you want.

The bestbuy in Salem, NH, near us, has a pallet of CyberPower UPS's that they are clearing out at ~$50's. Personally I think you should have all expensive electronics hooked up to these things. Especially if you live in a house that is 50+ years old. (most of NE) Otherwise, I consider APC one of the top of the line brands. To just power your cable box, any size UPS will probably power it for at least 50mins if the power goes off. Especially if you power it down (since your TV and AVR won't work anymore without power) when you lose power. I have my AVR, DVD, DVR, 58" Projection, and HTPC all plugged into a relatively low power APC 550VR (I think it is rated at 350 watts), it will power all that stuff when losing power for 5-10 mins. Freaked my wife out the first time we lost power as she though some one was in the basement playing with the box. :)

Sometimes you can find them on super discount on slickdeals.net (like FAR or $5-$15) but generally they go for $60-$150 depending on how much power you want.
ll
Thanks - there's a Best Buy near me at South Bay in Boston - I'll check 'em out tom'w.
It's for a summer house on the Cape that loses power if someone on the lower Cape sneezes.

Is there a trick to copying HD programs to a regular (non-HD) DVD recorder, or can they just be copied normally, as with SD programs? I realize that the DVD playback won't be HD, but will it look the same (and take up the same amount of DVD space) as the same program recorded from an SD version?

No trick if your dvd recorder is also a hard drive recorder, like my E-85. I just record to the HDD then burn it to DVD.

No trick if your dvd recorder is also a hard drive recorder, like my E-85. I just record to the HDD then burn it to DVD.

Thanks. What if there's no hard drive?

Is there a trick to copying HD programs to a regular (non-HD) DVD recorder, or can they just be copied normally, as with SD programs? I realize that the DVD playback won't be HD, but will it look the same (and take up the same amount of DVD space) as the same program recorded from an SD version?

No trick. Use the S-Vid out from your Moto STB to your DVDR. It doesn't have to be a DVDR with a HDD, but those are preferable, since they make editing so much easier. Recording from a HD source produces a sharper picture than the same thing from and SD source. Since you have a better signal, your DVD's Picture Quality will benefit even more than SD signals from recording at a higher bit-rate. So, if what you are recording is shorter than two hours, and your DVDR will let you, record it at the highest bit-rate that will fit the whole program on the DVD. That will make the best picture.

Another advantage is that the HD version will be at least as wide as the 16x9 aspect ratio, so you will get closer to the original aspect ratio of most films made since 1953.

You could produce a DVD with a PQ very close to a commercial DVD from a HD source, IF you could make it anamorphic. Unfortunately, Moto boxes will not output a squeezed 16x9 picture on its 480i outputs, so you can't record an anamorphic image, will see letterboxing, and have to use the "Zoom" on your HD TV to make the image fill the screen.

The only ways around that are, if you have one of the very few DVDRs that has, and will record from component inputs, since the Moto will output a squeezed image over component. Also, there are converters available to convert a component signal to S-Vid, that would let you make an anamorphic DVD.

Our mascot!

www.stuffonmymutt.com/media/4/20070803-Gizmo%20-%20tv.jpg

Kittie porn is bad enough, but doggy porn? :D

Are there drivers for this STB? I'd like to connect it to my Vista Media Center.

I've had my 3412 for about a week now and I have a question regarding the remote. I currently only have 1 connection to my HD TV. When I use the DVR buttons (FF, pause, etc), they don't work because they default to the AUX, which has nothing connected to it. To get them to work, I have to first press the "Cable" button then FF, pause. This is driving me and (especially) my wife crazy. How can I program it to always use "Cable" for the DVR buttons?

Thanks!

I've had my 3412 for about a week now and I have a question regarding the remote. I currently only have 1 connection to my HD TV. When I use the DVR buttons (FF, pause, etc), they don't work because they default to the AUX, which has nothing connected to it. To get them to work, I have to first press the "Cable" button then FF, pause. This is driving me and (especially) my wife crazy. How can I program it to always use "Cable" for the DVR buttons?

Thanks!

My remote (using a 3416) DVR buttons work in cable mode by default (they also control my TiVo in AUX mode, since I programmed it).

Are you saying that if you keep the remote in cable mode, the DVR buttons don't work?

Try doing a remote factory reset--see here:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Programming_the_Remote#Resets

Are there drivers for this STB? I'd like to connect it to my Vista Media Center.
Download drivers here (http://exdeus.home.comcast.net/stbfirewire/). Get help here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695&page=1&pp=30).

When I use the DVR buttons (FF, pause, etc), they don't work because they default to the AUX, which has nothing connected to it.
Thanks!

Mine doesn't default to aux, but is instead controlled by the last command button pushed. So, If I turned off the TV last, it would try to command the TV with the FF button. I have a macro set to turn off the TV and the AV receiver. When I use that, the aux is the last command used, so I always have to push the "cable" button before changing cable channels, or using most other DVR buttons. Sometines I forget, and when I try to change channels, I change AV inputs instead, producing MUCH static!

Mine doesn't default to aux, but is instead controlled by the last command button pushed. So, If I turned off the TV last, it would try to command the TV with the FF button. I have a macro set to turn off the TV and the AV receiver. When I use that, the aux is the last command used, so I always have to push the "cable" button before changing cable channels, or using most other DVR buttons. Sometines I forget, and when I try to change channels, I change AV inputs instead, producing MUCH static!

Have you considered adding to the end of your macro a command to select the cable button?

Have you considered adding to the end of your macro a command to select the cable button?

No, that hadn't occured to me. I could get it to just select the cable button, not actually send a cable command? That would be nice! Oh, one potential problem... when I did my macro, I wanted it to turn on the AVR first, and then the TV, so I programmed them in that order, but they actually transmit in reverse order! Should I program the cable selection first, so it would happen last? Don't believe I saw any mention of that on the Wiki, but it's been a while since I looked...

The bestbuy in Salem, NH, near us, has a pallet of CyberPower UPS's that they are clearing out at ~$50's. Personally I think you should have all expensive electronics hooked up to these things. Especially if you live in a house that is 50+ years old. (most of NE) Otherwise, I consider APC one of the top of the line brands. To just power your cable box, any size UPS will probably power it for at least 50mins if the power goes off. Especially if you power it down (since your TV and AVR won't work anymore without power) when you lose power. I have my AVR, DVD, DVR, 58" Projection, and HTPC all plugged into a relatively low power APC 550VR (I think it is rated at 350 watts), it will power all that stuff when losing power for 5-10 mins. Freaked my wife out the first time we lost power as she though some one was in the basement playing with the box. :)

Sometimes you can find them on super discount on slickdeals.net (like FAR or $5-$15) but generally they go for $60-$150 depending on how much power you want.
I just bit the bullet and got the APC 550VR from Circuit City. They've got a $20 mail-in rebate going until 8/11 (I think) on this model, bringing it down to about $40 after the rebate. Seems like a small price to pay to address the annoying guide reload problem.

My 3416 was started to fail (I had to keep power resetting it to get On Demand and DVR functions every day). I heard "rumors" that Comcast was sending out new 3416's with an M-Card installed as well as some new "stuff". Well when the technician arrived, he had one with him for me (looks like they're upgrading them in the Boston area). I talked to a local CSR who I know and he told me that the new ones (Phase 4) supposedly have more drive space and supposedly corrects the "hanging" problem. The new 3416 has a firewire port on the front, whole new look and design, as well as a new firmware numbering scheme (18.21 is what came with it).

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, on the new front panel, it actually tells you the resolution of the show you're watching (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) so you can see exactly (depending on your HDTV whether it can detect it automatically or not) what the channel is broadcasting in.

My 3416 was started to fail (I had to keep power resetting it to get On Demand and DVR functions every day). I heard "rumors" that Comcast was sending out new 3416's with an M-Card installed as well as some new "stuff". Well when the technician arrived, he had one with him for me (looks like they're upgrading them in the Boston area). I talked to a local CSR who I know and he told me that the new ones (Phase 4) supposedly have more drive space and supposedly corrects the "hanging" problem. The new 3416 has a firewire port on the front, whole new look and design, as well as a new firmware numbering scheme (18.21 is what came with it).

Good evening,
Sorry if this has been discussed..but am also in the Boston area...what are the new boxes and how are they different from the current 3416s? What is the m card?

Thanks

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, on the new front panel, it actually tells you the resolution of the show you're watching (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) so you can see exactly (depending on your HDTV whether it can detect it automatically or not) what the channel is broadcasting in.

Does it do actually now do passthru? The current boxes always scale to the resolution you chose at setup.

jtm

Good evening,
Sorry if this has been discussed..but am also in the Boston area...what are the new boxes and how are they different from the current 3416s? What is the m card?

Thanks

The new boxes are actually 'DCH' as opposed to the 'DCT' series & yes they are cable card/separable security boxes. In the Boston area they've been out for about a month now & it's a complete crapshoot on what model you get now from a tech or payment center, dct6412, dct 34xx or dch3416 (and good luck requesting a specific model, lol). I do like the look of the new boxes a little better then the old ones but haven't seen much yet in the way of their issues. Front display is no longer the yellow/orange led, it's now more of a white led. There is a button for changing resolution also but I haven't tried that yet. I believe 'M' card is just what the new 2-way cable cards are being called at this time. They're basically built into the box & cannot (or at least aren't supposed to be) removed from the box. I'm pretty sure the harddrive is 160Gb, same as the DCT3416. The new regular HD (non-dvr) boxes are now starting to come through in the new DCH model as well.

http://developer.motorola.com/products/settops/dch3416/

Thanks Jon for taking the time to explain it.

The DCH 6416 & DCH 3416 are, I repeat are the Phase 4 of the DCT 6416 & DCH 3416 series.


There are very few changes between the DCT & DCH Series.

The main one is the use of the M-Card to meet the FCC STB rule.

A new case, and a new case display setup.

A new firmware series, 17 & 18 depending on MSO.

They are still using a 160gb HDD, and the same remote control code.

That about covers the basic changes.

The DCH 6416 & DCH 3416 are, I repeat are the Phase 4 of the DCT 6416 & DCH 3416 series.


There are very few changes between the DCT & DCH Series.

The main one is the use of the M-Card to meet the FCC STB rule.

A new case, and a new case display setup.

A new firmware series, 17 & 18 depending on MSO.

They are still using a 160gb HDD, and the same remote control code.

That about covers the basic changes.

Thanks ScanPa! Hopefully they'll have one of these at my local cable store by the time the new season starts :-)

It would certainly be nice to hear from DCH users if this new dvr has improvements over the DCT version.

They are still using a 160gb HDD

Wayyy too small for HDTV. Still recording many programs in SD instead of HD, to avoid maxing out the drive...

Wayyy too small for HDTV. Still recording many programs in SD instead of HD, to avoid maxing out the drive...

Agreed. Heck, I just bought a Seagate 500 GB 7200 RPM SATA2 drive for $109. My PC has plenty of space now. Only if a big company like Motorola could get a mass buyers discount on those drives, they could include that in a wonderful DVR setup. 500 GB is a lot too, they could of got away with 320 GB if that was too much, or even 250 GB. Anythings better than that dated 160 GB drive.

The DCH 6416 & DCH 3416 are, I repeat are the Phase 4 of the DCT 6416 & DCH 3416 series.


There are very few changes between the DCT & DCH Series.

The main one is the use of the M-Card to meet the FCC STB rule.

A new case, and a new case display setup.

A new firmware series, 17 & 18 depending on MSO.

They are still using a 160gb HDD, and the same remote control code.

That about covers the basic changes.

No native passthrough? Crap!

Agreed. Heck, I just bought a Seagate 500 GB 7200 RPM SATA2 drive for $109. My PC has plenty of space now. Only if a big company like Motorola could get a mass buyers discount on those drives, they could include that in a wonderful DVR setup. 500 GB is a lot too, they could of got away with 320 GB if that was too much, or even 250 GB. Anythings better than that dated 160 GB drive.


Cypher, your missing the point of renting a DVR STB. They are only designed for short term time shifting recordings, they are not designed or desired to be long term archive storage. The cable companies are already getting enough crap from the content providers who want to control there shows.

If people want long term storage devices, then they need to go with TiVo or another Non rental STB DVR device option.


ABC / ESPN / Disney & HBO are the major big one's behind this. They demand and are looking into more serious copy restrictions for there digital media content.

Thanks ScanPa! Hopefully they'll have one of these at my local cable store by the time the new season starts :-)


They should already have some in stock.

Cypher, your missing the point of renting a DVR STB. They are only designed for short term time shifting recordings, they are not designed or desired to be long term archive storage. The cable companies are already getting enough crap from the content providers who want to control there shows.

If people want long term storage devices, then they need to go with TiVo or another Non rental STB DVR device option.


ABC / ESPN / Disney & HBO are the major big one's behind this. They demand and are looking into more serious copy restrictions for there digital media content.

Thats understandable but they should at least allow end users to plug in external hard drives. I see no point in having a Tivo because

1) there's the upfront cost of the unit
2) If it breaks I'm 100% responsible,
3) I still have to pay Tivo a service fee
4) I still have to pay a cable card rental fee
5) No On Demand or future SDV support.

I would rather just rent a box that has full SDV and On Demand support, and if it breaks I can just swap it out for a new one with no questions asked. Sure Tivo has the nice pretty interface, but you bet I will subscribe to the Comcast/Tivo when it becomes available.

Still I believe a 160 GB drive is too small to keep a weeks worth of HD programming recording while your on vacation. I believe they should be more like 250 GB with the ability for the end user to purchase their own external HD and be responsible for that.

Scientific Atlanta users have the ability to connect eSATA hard drives. Motorola users cannot. Seems to me like the SA platform and/or programmers are much more capable.

Cypher, your missing the point of renting a DVR STB. They are only designed for short term time shifting recordings, they are not designed or desired to be long term archive storage. The cable companies are already getting enough crap from the content providers who want to control there shows.

If people want long term storage devices, then they need to go with TiVo or another Non rental STB DVR device option.


ABC / ESPN / Disney & HBO are the major big one's behind this. They demand and are looking into more serious copy restrictions for there digital media content.
The reality is that no ideal solution exists.

It's depressing how gaps open up b/w the user models of the consumers and the providers. I always tend to fall threw one left open for a use case employed by only a small minority of the population.

For me, the cable DVR is the only way to get true long-term, offline storage of cable programming, because of the Firewire output. I wouldn't want to fill hard drives with encrypted content playable only by a single TiVo box. I've given up being able to capture anything on a premium channel, and as you mentioned, the restrictions will only get worse from here on out. But, for unencrypted content, having the DVR for timeshifting, and then a PC for offline storage, is the only practical, sustainable method of archiving programs. Of course, with local HDTV and clear-QAM, the solution also includes a HTPC with a tuner, burner, and transcoding capabilities.

If TiVo would produce a STB with firewire output, only for unencrypted content, you would no longer see me on this thread.

you bet I will subscribe to the Comcast/Tivo when it becomes available.
I'm saying that, too, but...correct me if I"m wrong thinking here, even with TiVO added to the box, as most of my friends have been saying, even with SOME TiVO stuff on there, it's still the same crappy Moto box.

I'm saying that, too, but...correct me if I"m wrong thinking here, even with TiVO added to the box, as most of my friends have been saying, even with SOME TiVO stuff on there, it's still the same crappy Moto box.
There will be issues, surely, that are unique to the Tivo software on the Moto box, but my understanding of what's controlled by software vs. firmware vs. hardware leads me to believe that a lot of the fault lies with iGuide. Replacing it with TiVo software has the potential to produce a much better experience, for features, usability, and stability.

There will be issues, surely, that are unique to the Tivo software on the Moto box, but my understanding of what's controlled by software vs. firmware vs. hardware leads me to believe that a lot of the fault lies with iGuide. Replacing it with TiVo software has the potential to produce a much better experience, for features, usability, and stability.
Definitely worth a try, compared to what there is now. Any new word on when it's being available? Supposedly, they're starting in the Boston area, which is where I am.

There will be issues, surely, that are unique to the Tivo software on the Moto box, but my understanding of what's controlled by software vs. firmware vs. hardware leads me to believe that a lot of the fault lies with iGuide. Replacing it with TiVo software has the potential to produce a much better experience, for features, usability, and stability.

Agreed. The issues I have with my Moto DCT3416 are 1) laggy remote response, and 2) repeat recordings of episodes I've watched and deleted (even though I have my series recordings set to first run only).

From what I've read, and through conversations with Comcast CSRs, the Comcast program guide is the main culprit. It's a memory hog (contributing to the cache overload remote lag issues), and isn't accurate regarding new vs. repeat episodes.

Agreed. The issues I have with my Moto DCT3416 are 1) laggy remote response, and 2) repeat recordings of episodes I've watched and deleted (even though I have my series recordings set to first run only).

From what I've read, and through conversations with Comcast CSRs, the Comcast program guide is the main culprit. It's a memory hog (contributing to the cache overload remote lag issues), and isn't accurate regarding new vs. repeat episodes.


The Iguide is the EPG software.

The Upgraded DVR service (TiVo EPG) Wil use the same guide data as the Iguide EPG.

The Guide Data is the fault of the series recording dupes.

If the guide data does not have: NEW, ENCORE, REPEAT listed in the guide data, then those control fields in the series recording settings will be ignored.

There in lies the problem.

I have that horrible remote lag and generally poor UI response.

Do any of the Cox or RCN guys notice the remote lag problem with the Passport DCT guide? Did anyone with the Microsoft guide notice this problem?

I'm trying to isolate the performance issues. Either its:
1) Hardware (CPU / Chipset / Memory) related.
2) The firmware / bios that drives the hardware.
3) The guide software (I-Guide, Passport, Microsoft TV, Fios IMG)

If the problem lies with #1, then were all SOL. If the problem lies with #2 or 3, then one day perhaps we'll have a fix without having to replace the box.

I am willing to give the Tivo software a try. It sure looks better than I-Guide. I can't give Fios's IMG guide a try because we don't have FIOS in the area. So Comcast/Tivo it is.

I have that horrible remote lag and generally poor UI response.

Do any of the Cox or RCN guys notice the remote lag problem with the Passport DCT guide? Did anyone with the Microsoft guide notice this problem?

I'm trying to isolate the performance issues. Either its:
1) Hardware (CPU / Chipset / Memory) related.
2) The firmware / bios that drives the hardware.
3) The guide software (I-Guide, Passport, Microsoft TV, Fios IMG)

If the problem lies with #1, then were all SOL. If the problem lies with #2 or 3, then one day perhaps we'll have a fix without having to replace the box.

I am willing to give the Tivo software a try. It sure looks better than I-Guide. I can't give Fios's IMG guide a try because we don't have FIOS in the area. So Comcast/Tivo it is.

The IGUIDE EPG software is the culprit. There are over 7 layers of software on these STB that have to try and work together.

Verizon Motorola phone users, will understand. Verizon has there own UI overlayed on top of the Motorola UI, this causes major problems and blocks many feature of the phones from working.

The remote lag is also prevalent with the Microsoft guide, so I believe it's the Motorola firmware that is the underlying problem.

The Iguide is the EPG software.

The Upgraded DVR service (TiVo EPG) Wil use the same guide data as the Iguide EPG.

The Guide Data is the fault of the series recording dupes.

If the guide data does not have: NEW, ENCORE, REPEAT listed in the guide data, then those control fields in the series recording settings will be ignored.

There in lies the problem.

I also have a series 2 TiVo and the guide data is much more detailed and up to date in the TiVo then in the Comcast DVR. I was under the impression that when Comcast releases the TiVo interface on their DVRs, it will also include the TiVo guide data (which they do a good job of keeping accurate). Are you saying that's not going to be the case, that the (crappy) Comcast guide data will be used with the TiVo interface?

Cypher, your missing the point of renting a DVR STB. They are only designed for short term time shifting recordings, they are not designed or desired to be long term archive storage. The cable companies are already getting enough crap from the content providers who want to control there shows.

If people want long term storage devices, then they need to go with TiVo or another Non rental STB DVR device option.


Not to mention when someone's dvr craps out & they lose all their recordings they want to get all kinds of credit for the shows they lost. It's bad enough with what can fit on a 160Gb drive, double the drive & double the amount of bitching. "I lost a whole season of xxxxxx, I was going to watch", looks like you're buying the season on dvd now, lol. But seriously, that 'temporary storage' fact should be made more clear to people when they get these things & I do feel bad when people lose all their programs (I'd be pissed if it happened to me, all those shows on Playboy I have recorded :rolleyes: ).

The remote lag is also prevalent with the Microsoft guide, so I believe it's the Motorola firmware that is the underlying problem.Remote lag is significantly reduced on recent versions of the new FiOS program guide, which all customers should have by the end of August.

http://promo.verizon.com/img/

The current Comcast iGuide software isn't really competitive with the FiOS software. I'm curious to see what Comcast will do to remedy that. Tivo was supposed to be a premium option, not the default.

Are you saying that's not going to be the case, that the (crappy) Comcast guide data will be used with the TiVo interface?That's correct. TiVo's own boxes get their guide data from Tribune. The Comcast TiVo will get its guide data from Gemstar.

That's correct. TiVo's own boxes get their guide data from Tribune. The Comcast TiVo will get its guide data from Gemstar.

If that is true, then I can't imagine why anyone would want to D/L the TiVO software to the Moto, since the Tribune Guide is one very good reason to have a TiVO in the first place. It seems like it's going to be six of one, half-a-dozen of the other....get the Moto/TiVO, you get some TiVO features but not the Guide; get a REAL TiVO like the Series 3 and get the great TiVO guide, but lose On Demand, PPV and that Switched Video thingy. I could care less about OD and PPV, but I would think the Switched Video thing would be a great loss.

Need to wait for the retail MOXI coming out this fall. Good chance it will be able to talk back to the cable company.

If that is true, then I can't imagine why anyone would want to D/L the TiVO software to the Moto, since the Tribune Guide is one very good reason to have a TiVO in the first place. It seems like it's going to be six of one, half-a-dozen of the other....get the Moto/TiVO, you get some TiVO features but not the Guide; get a REAL TiVO like the Series 3 and get the great TiVO guide, but lose On Demand, PPV and that Switched Video thingy. I could care less about OD and PPV, but I would think the Switched Video thing would be a great loss.
It's my understanding that the TiVo software keeps its own log of recorded shows to prevent repeat recordings, so while the guide data might not be as detailed from Gemstar/TVG, it doesn't necessarily mean the TiVo/Comcast software can't prevent repeats.

Remote lag is significantly reduced on recent versions of the new FiOS program guide, which all customers should have by the end of August.

http://promo.verizon.com/img/

The current Comcast iGuide software isn't really competitive with the FiOS software. I'm curious to see what Comcast will do to remedy that. Tivo was supposed to be a premium option, not the default.
Wow. Dammit, Verizon, come to me! If only they were in more markets; Comcast would be forced to innovate.

It's my understanding that the TiVo software keeps its own log of recorded shows to prevent repeat recordings, so while the guide data might not be as detailed from Gemstar/TVG, it doesn't necessarily mean the TiVo/Comcast software can't prevent repeats.Indeed. The main difference will be the relative accuracy of the guide data between the two sources; some folks feel (don't ask me why) that Tribune is better about details like original air date. I'm not so sure: For the past three weeks, the 1am-3am reruns of previous season 4400 and Dead Zone episodes on USA have been appearing as new -- and this is the Tribune data I'm talking about.

Unforunately, the Tribune guide data is not any better than the information provided by the stations.

Fortunately, over the years (I have had DirecTiVo's since 2000) there have been few instances of incomplete or inaccurate program information in the Tribune guide data (used for both SA and DirecTV TiVo's) that resulted in erroneous behavior when recording and managing "duplicate" programs.

I have found that Zap2It.com has been very responsive to fixing problems in the Tribune Guide when we take the time and effort to explain the symptoms and suspected root-cause problems to them. In my experience, with DirecTV guide issues, sometimes it was a discrepancy that was really on the DirecTV receiving side of the guide data, including OTA digital channel PSIP-driven subchannel assignments, but the Zap2It contact person worked it through anyway and convinced DirecTV to solve their problem.

I don't have personal experience with this, but I have read on the forum that TiVo, Inc., is very responsive to guide problems reported by SA TiVo users, including working closely with the Tribune folks and cable companies to resolve the problems.

I wonder whether Comcast sees the program guide as a priority item like TiVo, Tribune and DirecTV seem to.

Unforunately, the Tribune guide data is not any better than the information provided by the stations.

Fortunately, over the years (I have had DirecTiVo's since 2000) there have been few instances of incomplete or inaccurate program information in the Tribune guide data (used for both SA and DirecTV TiVo's) that resulted in erroneous behavior when recording and managing "duplicate" programs.

I have found that Zap2It.com has been very responsive to fixing problems in the Tribune Guide when we take the time and effort to explain the symptoms and suspected root-cause problems to them. In my experience, with DirecTV guide issues, sometimes it was a discrepancy that was really on the DirecTV receiving side of the guide data, including OTA digital channel PSIP-driven subchannel assignments, but the Zap2It contact person worked it through anyway and convinced DirecTV to solve their problem.

I don't have personal experience with this, but I have read on the forum that TiVo, Inc., is very responsive to guide problems reported by SA TiVo users, including working closely with the Tribune folks and cable companies to resolve the problems.

I wonder whether Comcast sees the program guide as a priority item like TiVo, Tribune and DirecTV seem to.

I too have always had good experiences with TiVO and any guide problems. The listings on Zap2It seem to match the Guide listings - they are both Tribune.
Also, I always thought the TiVO got the info on whether a new show should be recorded from the guide. If it says "repeat" in the listings, it shouldn't record it. And that's what the Comcast guide does NOT do...they list all repeats of new programs as NEW.

The only problem I have had with Cox using tribune for the onscreen guide info is when there was a fire at tribune and the listings didn't get updated for a day or two.

ajwees41

Remote lag is significantly reduced on recent versions of the new FiOS program guide, which all customers should have by the end of August.

http://promo.verizon.com/img/

The current Comcast iGuide software isn't really competitive with the FiOS software. I'm curious to see what Comcast will do to remedy that. Tivo was supposed to be a premium option, not the default.



The comcast TiVo software is part of the optional Deluxe DVR service. Additional Monthly Fee will apply.

The comcast TiVo software is part of the optional Deluxe DVR service. Additional Monthly Fee will apply.

Any idea how much it will be? Is that all that's included in the deluxe DVR service? A larger HD or eSATA activation would be nice...

I have that horrible remote lag and generally poor UI response.

Do any of the Cox or RCN guys notice the remote lag problem with the Passport DCT guide? Did anyone with the Microsoft guide notice this problem?

I'm trying to isolate the performance issues. Either its:
1) Hardware (CPU / Chipset / Memory) related.
2) The firmware / bios that drives the hardware.
3) The guide software (I-Guide, Passport, Microsoft TV, Fios IMG)

If the problem lies with #1, then were all SOL. If the problem lies with #2 or 3, then one day perhaps we'll have a fix without having to replace the box.

I am willing to give the Tivo software a try. It sure looks better than I-Guide. I can't give Fios's IMG guide a try because we don't have FIOS in the area. So Comcast/Tivo it is.


Cox with Passport Echo 2.7.044 and firmware 16.36 has no remote lag.

ajwees41

Any idea how much it will be? Is that all that's included in the deluxe DVR service? A larger HD or eSATA activation would be nice...


The TiVo based interface & a TiVo remote is all that is included in the deluxe DVR package. They have yet to pass the additional price info, but expect it to be $5.00 - $ 8.00 more per month.

I haven't been on here for awhile ... are the issues with the 3416 and comcast regarding the use of the HDMI cable resolved? With an earlier firmware I know that some (including me) could not get the hdmi cable to work with their monitor / TV and had to use the component - which I am still doing - any updates? If it is working, what settings do I need to make on the 3416 to make it all work?

Cypher, your missing the point of renting a DVR STB. They are only designed for short term time shifting recordings, they are not designed or desired to be long term archive storage. The cable companies are already getting enough crap from the content providers who want to control there shows.

If people want long term storage devices, then they need to go with TiVo or another Non rental STB DVR device option.


ABC / ESPN / Disney & HBO are the major big one's behind this. They demand and are looking into more serious copy restrictions for there digital media content.
But even as short term time shifting storage, 160G is too small. If I'm away for just a few days, my drive is maxed out, even when I resort to space saving measures (like limiting the number of saved Letterman shows to 1). And this is during the summer rerun season, when not much good HD programming is available. If I had 250G to 300G, then I could probably last a week, which to my mind is adequate short-term storage.

I haven't been on here for awhile ... are the issues with the 3416 and comcast regarding the use of the HDMI cable resolved? With an earlier firmware I know that some (including me) could not get the hdmi cable to work with their monitor / TV and had to use the component - which I am still doing - any updates? If it is working, what settings do I need to make on the 3416 to make it all work?

I got a Comcast/Moto DCH3416 a few days ago and have it connected to my Hitachi 57F59A and no HDMI issues. With the previous DCT3416, and a few other Moto HD DVR boxes, I had the annoying image shift issue, usually a few time an hour, so I switched to component cables.

My 3416 was started to fail (I had to keep power resetting it to get On Demand and DVR functions every day). I heard "rumors" that Comcast was sending out new 3416's with an M-Card installed as well as some new "stuff". Well when the technician arrived, he had one with him for me (looks like they're upgrading them in the Boston area). I talked to a local CSR who I know and he told me that the new ones (Phase 4) supposedly have more drive space and supposedly corrects the "hanging" problem. The new 3416 has a firewire port on the front, whole new look and design, as well as a new firmware numbering scheme (18.21 is what came with it).

I got a DCH3416 a few days ago, and so far am very pleased with it. Guide data loads much faster after powering up, and the remote lag is almost non-existent (hopefully will stay that way).

When I picked up the box, I asked if I had to anything special since it had a cablecard. They said, no, just connect it. After I couldn't access any non-basic channels, I called Comcast and they did the usual send a signal to reboot the box, but it didn't work, so the CSR said it was a low signal issue and scheduled an appointment. I ran a long cable direct from the wall to the box (I have a 3 way splitter) and called again and had them send another signal, but no luck.

I got a replacement box at the Comcast store, and again asked if I needed to do anything special since it has an M-Card. No, just hook it up. Again issues with non-basic channels. This time I got a Comcast CSR who knew what she was doing. She said the store rep registered the box, but not the cable card, so she first initialized the CC, then validated it. Worked.

BTW, my box had a USB port on the front (not firewire).

But even as short term time shifting storage, 160G is too small. If I'm away for just a few days, my drive is maxed out, even when I resort to space saving measures...

True. Also a problem when more than one person uses the STB - you can't necessarily delete a program after watching, because the other person hasn't seen it yet. This leads to constant juggling in order to avoid maxing out the drive - recording to DVD, recording in SD instead of HD, etc. All of which defeats the purpose of having an HD box...

anyone get this glitch ?

after swapping tuners, you try and change the channel by numbers but guide pops up for no reason. you have to exit it off to change the channel

Thats understandable but they should at least allow end users to plug in external hard drives. I see no point in having a Tivo because

1) there's the upfront cost of the unit
2) If it breaks I'm 100% responsible,
3) I still have to pay Tivo a service fee
4) I still have to pay a cable card rental fee
5) No On Demand or future SDV support.

I would rather just rent a box that has full SDV and On Demand support, and if it breaks I can just swap it out for a new one with no questions asked. Sure Tivo has the nice pretty interface, but you bet I will subscribe to the Comcast/Tivo when it becomes available.

Still I believe a 160 GB drive is too small to keep a weeks worth of HD programming recording while your on vacation. I believe they should be more like 250 GB with the ability for the end user to purchase their own external HD and be responsible for that.

Scientific Atlanta users have the ability to connect eSATA hard drives. Motorola users cannot. Seems to me like the SA platform and/or programmers are much more capable.

i agree, a DVR is for time shifting short term use

so the DVR should be able to store every program from every channel for 7 days

once 7 days is up and the DVR is full, then you have to decide what to delete and what to keep

by the way, what are the "long term" storage options for HD cable ?

i agree, a DVR is for time shifting short term use

so the DVR should be able to store every program from every channel for 7 days

once 7 days is up and the DVR is full, then you have to decide what to delete and what to keep

by the way, what are the "long term" storage options for HD cable ?

So, let's see, I have about 200 channels. There are 24 hours in a day, times 7 days, and that equals 168 hours. Now, multiply that 168 hour by 200 channels and you have 33,600 hours to record each week. I don't care who you use as a TV provider, they don't make a DVR that can handle that, even with external storage........

So, let's see, I have about 200 channels. There are 24 hours in a day, times 7 days, and that equals 168 hours. Now, multiply that 168 hour by 200 channels and you have 33,600 hours to record each week. I don't care who you use as a TV provider, they don't make a DVR that can handle that, even with external storage........

Funny. True...but funny.

So, let's see, I have about 200 channels. There are 24 hours in a day, times 7 days, and that equals 168 hours. Now, multiply that 168 hour by 200 channels and you have 33,600 hours to record each week. I don't care who you use as a TV provider, they don't make a DVR that can handle that, even with external storage........

How much storage is that? Lets make an estimate.

Say the DVR transcodes everything to MPEG4 to save space.

Let's say SD takes 1.5 mbps and HD takes 8.5 mbps. 20 of those 200 channels are HD.

I think thats about 66002343.75 Gigabytes of storage space. WOW!

i agree, a DVR is for time shifting short term use

so the DVR should be able to store every program from every channel for 7 days

once 7 days is up and the DVR is full, then you have to decide what to delete and what to keep

by the way, what are the "long term" storage options for HD cable ?

NONE! Digital Media Copyright law only allows for short term storage of Digital Recordings.

If you like the program, Purchase the DVD, or iTunes download.

So, let's see, I have about 200 channels. There are 24 hours in a day, times 7 days, and that equals 168 hours. Now, multiply that 168 hour by 200 channels and you have 33,600 hours to record each week. I don't care who you use as a TV provider, they don't make a DVR that can handle that, even with external storage........



You left out the need for 200 tuners.

You left out the need for 200 tuners.


and 100 Signal Amp's to keep the signal at strength. :)

Meanwhile, back to reality, a HDD for HD TV should have a lot more than 160GB, even for short term storage, of say, about a week. Every week there are lots of things I would like to check out, but cannot, because they would much more than fill up my HDD. As it is, I only record things I am certain I will want to watch. It would be nice to be able to record a few things that just sound interesting, and delete them if I don't like them. I don't think it at all unreasonable for a DVR to record 10 hours of HD material, each day for a week. So, how many GB would that take? Way more than 120 or 160... Is that so unreasonable?

Meanwhile, back to reality, a HDD for HD TV should have a lot more than 160GB, even for short term storage, of say, about a week. Every week there are lots of things I would like to check out, but cannot, because they would much more than fill up my HDD. As it is, I only record things I am certain I will want to watch. It would be nice to be able to record a few things that just sound interesting, and delete them if I don't like them. I don't think it at all unreasonable for a DVR to record 10 hours of HD material, each day for a week. So, how many GB would that take? Way more than 120 or 160... Is that so unreasonable?

stand by for the super-nerd responses :rolleyes:

Yeah, I would say that's unreasonable. The device needs to be designed for the typical user. According to the A.C. Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day (or 28 hours/week, or 2 months of nonstop TV-watching per year). So a 30 hour device is sufficient for the typical user.

Yeah, I would say that's unreasonable. The device needs to be designed for the typical user. According to the A.C. Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day (or 28 hours/week, or 2 months of nonstop TV-watching per year). So a 30 hour device is sufficient for the typical user.

people who spend 20 bucks a month on a DVR are not the "typical tv viewer"

and they need to compensate for the HD channels

an HD-DVR should be 500 gig minimum or at the very least allow you the option to add your own hard drives

users who feel 160 gig is "enough", great for you but you are in the minority

20 bucks a month to basically rent a 160 gig hard drive attached to an operating system that's not even as stable as windows ME, LOL

i'm tempted to turn the junk back in but i guess it's better than nothing or i would have already

and i'm not looking for free movies. if i like a movie, i'll buy the dvd or the hd-dvd or blu-ray but there is a lot of HD content that i would like to save that you can not buy anywhere

Yeah, I would say that's unreasonable. The device needs to be designed for the typical user. According to the A.C. Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day (or 28 hours/week, or 2 months of nonstop TV-watching per year). So a 30 hour device is sufficient for the typical user.
I think 30 hours of HD storage (I guess that's about 300GB) for me would be adequate as a temporary storage device. If I had more than 30 programs stored (I don't usually record sporting events for later), I'm not sure when I'd get to them.

That being said, the original Tivo and ReplayTVs were 20-hour devices, and that didn't satisfy anyone for long.

stand by for the super-nerd responses :rolleyes:
This is the AV Science Forum. :mad:

The super-nerds are the only ones that make this place worthwhile. Otherwise, this would just be like any other forum --- the blind leading the blind.

Meanwhile, back to reality, a HDD for HD TV should have a lot more than 160GB, even for short term storage, of say, about a week. Every week there are lots of things I would like to check out, but cannot, because they would much more than fill up my HDD. As it is, I only record things I am certain I will want to watch. It would be nice to be able to record a few things that just sound interesting, and delete them if I don't like them. I don't think it at all unreasonable for a DVR to record 10 hours of HD material, each day for a week. So, how many GB would that take? Way more than 120 or 160... Is that so unreasonable?

70 hours of HD content would require about 500G, not at all unreasonable.

Well it's a ways down the road (and by then we'll probably actually have larger hard drives in the dvr's), but when mpeg4 finally gets here we'll be able to fit about double what we currently can on these drives. And as for these comments about being able to record 10 or so hours a day, that's great in theory & sometimes I would like to do that but there is no way I could watch all of that. I do have to sleep, eat, work, follow several forums & do various other things around the house (and I have no kids to eat up my time) and I'm still hard pressed to be able to watch 4 or 5 hours a day during the active TV season. And I'm not about to sit in front of the TV for 15 hours straight on Saturday and/or Sunday to catch up with shows either. I would love it though if they would enable the SATA connections on these boxes so us 'nerds' could add some more storage when I go away or have a busy recording week. Tell the movie companies & such to stop bitching about copyright worries & let the cable co's enable it, the last I heard that was the big thing blocking the SATA connection.

And as for these comments about being able to record 10 or so hours a day, that's great in theory & sometimes I would like to do that but there is no way I could watch all of that.

In the post where I said 10 hours a day would be a reasonable amount to be able to record, I said that I would like to record things that just sound interesting, so that I could check them out later, and delete what I didn't want to watch. So, that would be recording more that I would have time to watch, but allow me to pick and choose between lots of potentially interesting things when I did have time to watch. Sort of my own VOD. National Geographic HD Channel, and Discovery HD are good examples. Lots of their stuff sounds good, and some is very good, but also much is very ordinary and unexceptional. The only way to tell, is to watch. If I had enough GB to record 10 hours a day of HD, I would have a lot more options when I did have time to watch, even if I only wound up watching 2-3 hours of the 10.

This is the AV Science Forum. :mad:

The super-nerds are the only ones that make this place worthwhile. Otherwise, this would just be like any other forum --- the blind leading the blind.

yeah but they always miss the sarcasm :D

I read a few posts some while ago about how the PQ from sdtv channels is better on the new DCH3216 compared to the older DCT3416, but nothing recently. Can those of you that have the new dvr comment on this? (I can of course switch my box and try it out, but I have some things I'm saving on my present DCT box--specifically the cable 'TuneUp' calibration patterns that I saved and are no longer being broadcast.) TIA, Bill

people who spend 20 bucks a month on a DVR are not the "typical tv viewer"Sure, the folks who spend $12.95 a month on a DVR are indeed becoming "typical" and if they weren't typical then the cable companies would have little incentive to pander to them. In the past, the 120 GB was good enough for early adopters. Now, with the passage of time, the offering has become mainstream, and so 160 GB is more than sufficient.

I read a few posts some while ago about how the PQ from sdtv channels is better on the new DCH3216 compared to the older DCT3416, but nothing recently. Can those of you that have the new dvr comment on this? (I can of course switch my box and try it out, but I have some things I'm saving on my present DCT box--specifically the cable 'TuneUp' calibration patterns that I saved and are no longer being broadcast.) TIA, Bill

I got a DCH3416 last week to replace the DCT3416 I've had for a while. The SD PQ is improved. I run SD @ 480i to my Hitachi 57F59A, and have the TV's virtual HD @ 1080i.

Also, guide data loads much faster after powering up, the remote lag is almost non-existent (hopefully will stay that way)--and I don't have the HDMI image shift that the DCT3416 had.

See my post below to save yourself the aggravation I went through with the cable card initialization/activation:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11276580&&#post11276580

Sure, the folks who spend $12.95 a month on a DVR are indeed becoming "typical" and if they weren't typical then the cable companies would have little incentive to pander to them. In the past, the 120 GB was good enough for early adopters. Now, with the passage of time, the offering has become mainstream, and so 160 GB is more than sufficient.

Ahhh, bicker is back speaking for everyone again.

In the post where I said 10 hours a day would be a reasonable amount to be able to record, I said that I would like to record things that just sound interesting, so that I could check them out later, and delete what I didn't want to watch.

Exactly. Often spend maybe 10-15 minutes watching what I want from a 1-2 hour program.

Reality sucks doesn't it! Bicker1 is spot on.

Reality sucks doesn't it! Bicker1 is spot on.

"Reality" may well be that the cable companies think 160GB is "more than sufficient," but to anyone who wants to watch a lot of HD, it clearly isn't. Also, I suspect that even some in Comcast know this isn't "reality," otherwise, why would they be planning on offering a 250GB Panasonic DVR? I don't think 250GB is ideal, but it would be a huge improvement. I'd take that over the TIVO/Moto160GB boxes any day.

Good evening,
I was wondering if someone could help me with an issue I have been having with my dct 3416 box lately. When I turn my tv on...the dvr is always on..I get a green and red screen with lines scrolling across...it almost looked like back in the early days when you didn't pay for a channel but you could hear the sound but couldn't get a clear picture. Its not the tv because dvd's play fine. I can unplug the box, plug it back in and its fine again. This has happened on rare occasions in the past but its now been happening for the last two nights straight. Has anyone experienced this and know what a solution would be? Its a bit frustrating now when I turn on the tv and its in the middle of recording a program and I either have to wait for it to finish to unplug it or just interrupt it and deal with the consequences. Playback, once it boots up again, is fine.

Thanks in advance.

Tom

If your using HDMI for your connection from the STB and the TV, then it sounds like a handshake problem. Some tv's drop power to the HDMI when the tv is set to standby.

Am not using it on an hdtv..using svideo connector.

I wonder if it could be some kind of static charge build up. I used to get something like that in stormy weather, on my old RP CRT TV, using S-VID connections.

I wonder if it could be some kind of static charge build up. I used to get something like that in stormy weather, on my old RP CRT TV, using S-VID connections.


A static build up on the dvr or on the tv? Like I mentioned, when I use the dvd player the tv works fine..its just when its on the dvr setting that the picture looks like that..once I unplug it it goes back to normal. Just been happening more frequently lately.

It would be a difference of electric potential between two units, in this case, the DVR, and the TV. DVRs, being connected to a cable that runs outside the house, are more likely to build up a charge different from those indoors. It could also be a grounding problem of the cable system, but I think those are rare these days. I used to have grounding problems all the time, but not for years now. If the TV and DVR are not plugged into the same outlet, or power supply/strip, do so, and that may help.

Ahhh, bicker is back speaking for everyone again.This is what I said:

Sure, the folks who spend $12.95 a month on a DVR are indeed becoming "typical" and if they weren't typical then the cable companies would have little incentive to pander to them. In the past, the 120 GB was good enough for early adopters. Now, with the passage of time, the offering has become mainstream, and so 160 GB is more than sufficient.

That is a statement just like every other statement in this thread by any other poster.

Take your personal problems elsewhere.

"Reality" may well be that the cable companies think 160GB is "more than sufficient," but to anyone who wants to watch a lot of HD, it clearly isn't.The issue isn't "anyone who wants to watch a lot of HD". The issue is the "typical customer". Face it: Being a television enthusiast means that you have to pay more to feed your passion. If you really want to watch a lot of HD, either rent a few cable DVRs or invest in the TiVo Series 3/HD, and be prepared to pay the price for your preference. Don't expect the world to align itself to your personal needs.

This is what I said: Sure, the folks who spend $12.95 a month on a DVR are indeed becoming "typical" and if they weren't typical then the cable companies would have little incentive to pander to them. In the past, the 120 GB was good enough for early adopters. Now, with the passage of time, the offering has become mainstream, and so 160 GB is more than sufficient. That is a statement just like every other statement in this thread by any other poster.

It doesn't feel the same at all. It feels like you're telling anyone who feels otherwise that they're an idiot. But perhaps I'm just taking it wrong. If so, I apologize.

Just because 120G has become mainstream (if indeed that's the case), how does it follow that 160G is necessarily more than sufficient? If 120G was considered adequate for SD content, there's no way that 160G could be considered adequate for HD.

"Reality" may well be that the cable companies think 160GB is "more than sufficient," but to anyone who wants to watch a lot of HD, it clearly isn't. Also, I suspect that even some in Comcast know this isn't "reality," otherwise, why would they be planning on offering a 250GB Panasonic DVR? I don't think 250GB is ideal, but it would be a huge improvement.

True. Hard to understand why folks jump in taking the side of the cable companies on this topic. The cost of additional storage is trivial these days. As for fair use issues, why should private viewing be restricted to this week as opposed to next week?

True. Hard to understand why folks jump in taking the side of the cable companies on this topic. The cost of additional storage is trivial these days. As for fair use issues, why should private viewing be restricted to this week as opposed to next week?
I suspect that another reason why we aren't seeing Comcast DVRs with greatly expanded storage (250-500GB, for example) is financial. Not in the sense that the larger drives cost more. But that all of us would immediately turn in our current models for the new ones and they'd be stuck with a bunch of units no one would want. The jump from 120G to 160G wasn't enough to get me to exchange, especially since I'd lose programs I'd already recorded. But a jump to 250G would get me to exchange in a second.

"Reality" may well be that the cable companies think 160GB is "more than sufficient," but to anyone who wants to watch a lot of HD, it clearly isn't. Also, I suspect that even some in Comcast know this isn't "reality," otherwise, why would they be planning on offering a 250GB Panasonic DVR? I don't think 250GB is ideal, but it would be a huge improvement. I'd take that over the TIVO/Moto160GB boxes any day.

Any more info on the 250GB DVR? Release date?

Interesting issue last night. Was watching a recorded program (Anthony Bourdain's "No Reservations," if you must know) and tried using the instant replay button to skip back about 10 minutes. I probably should have just used the rewind, but I wasn't thinking clearly. As I kept laying on the button, the box froze with the remote signal light steady on. The program kept playing and the time tracking bar was on screen but frozen. At first I thought it would "catch up" to the backlogged button presses as sometimes happens. But it soon became clear it was good and stuck. It would not respond to any button presses on the remote (a Harmony 880) or the box itself. I let the program play to the end, at which point it froze solid, leaving me no choice but to pull the plug and power cycle it.

I've noticed that this kind of stuff (the only other issue I have is occasional box resets) usually happens around the 11:00 PM hour and have heard this is when Comcast does system maintenance or something. I've learned not to put a lot of demands on the box around that time, and to be careful setting up recordings in the hour between 11:00 and midnight.

If so, I apologize.No problem.

how does it follow that 160G is necessarily more than sufficient?The sufficiency aspect has to do a typical person's weekly viewing habits. As others have pointed out, cable company DVRs are time-shifting devices, not long-term storage devices. So the HD capacity needed to satisfy the typical viewer is based on how much television a typical viewer watches in a week, or about 20-30 hours.

If 120G was considered adequate for SD content, there's no way that 160G could be considered adequate for HD.I think you misread or misunderstood the earlier messages. The first HD DVRs were 120GB, not SD DVRs. The first SD DVRs were 30 GB? Smaller maybe?

Any more info on the 250GB DVR? Release date?

The Pannys are getting redesigned. They were not released in time to comply with the July 2007 FCC rule requiring separable security devices.

So now there getting modified to comply with the ruling.

New date is early 2Q 2008

No problem.

The sufficiency aspect has to do a typical person's weekly viewing habits. As others have pointed out, cable company DVRs are time-shifting devices, not long-term storage devices. So the HD capacity needed to satisfy the typical viewer is based on how much television a typical viewer watches in a week, or about 20-30 hours.

I'd be happy to have a DVR that would store 30 hours of HD content. The current Comcast units don't do that.

Mine does! (They must not like you! :))

As I kept laying on the button, the box froze with the remote signal light steady on. The program kept playing and the time tracking bar was on screen but frozen. At first I thought it would "catch up" to the backlogged button presses as sometimes happens. But it soon became clear it was good and stuck. It would not respond to any button presses on the remote (a Harmony 880) or the box itself. I let the program play to the end, at which point it froze solid, leaving me no choice but to pull the plug and power cycle it.


I had this problem with the prior version of firmware (from last fall), only in my case it was using the 30 second skip. After doing that once or twice I learned to pause slightly between button presses. Since this newest firmware I haven't had any issues with this (yet) and notice that I can press the button quite quickly with no ill effects. Maybe in your case trying to press it 40 or so times was just a little to much for it.

Mine does! (They must not like you! :))
Really? Although different bitrates mean different storage amounts, mine seems to take about 10GB for each hour of HD content. That's only between 12 and 16 hours.

The issue isn't "anyone who wants to watch a lot of HD". The issue is the "typical customer".

That may be your issue, but it isn't mine.

My SD DVDR has a 160GB HDD. That is fine for SD, but as Opus says, and I concur, not nearly enough for HD. My 6412 is usually 70% or more full, and I only store things until I have time to watch them. I often have to delete, or decline to record, programs, because of limited HDD space. I estimate I can store about 20 hours of HDD. More that once on these forums I have been told I am wrong about that, that most people only get about 15 hours of HD with 120GB. So, how do you get 30 hours?

Scanpa, thanks for the update on the Panny 250GB boxes!

That may be your issue, but it isn't mine. Not even mine -- it's the cable company's issue... the issue that they have to always make decisions based on.

I think you misread or misunderstood the earlier messages. The first HD DVRs were 120GB, not SD DVRs. The first SD DVRs were 30 GB? Smaller maybe?

About 5 years ago, I had a non-HD DVR from Dish Network with an 80G hard drive. That would translate to about 500G for equivalent HD content.

About 5 years ago, I had a non-HD DVR from TiVo with a 13.6 GB hard drive.

My DCT-3416 cable box has a lot of macroblocking and looks real bad. I am going to try and get a replacement box, would I be better off with a cable card instead? Would that fix the issues I'm having?

CableCard versus non-CableCard won't affect macroblocking. A new box might (with or without CableCard) might.

It would be a difference of electric potential between two units, in this case, the DVR, and the TV. DVRs, being connected to a cable that runs outside the house, are more likely to build up a charge different from those indoors. It could also be a grounding problem of the cable system, but I think those are rare these days. I used to have grounding problems all the time, but not for years now. If the TV and DVR are not plugged into the same outlet, or power supply/strip, do so, and that may help.


Good afternoon and thanks for the technical reply. Just curious about a couple of things that you said...The cable run to my bedroom tv..the one I am having difficulty with...is all indoors. Where it comes into the house it goes into a splitter that I grounded..one goes up to my hd set (that hasn't had any of these issues) and the other goes to my sd set with the problems. Should I try and un ground it? Also, your last sentence..are you saying they should be in the same power strip orin different ones?

Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to help.

Just to correct one thing, the first HD DVR was a single tuner w/ 80 GB HDD.

I suspect that another reason why we aren't seeing Comcast DVRs with greatly expanded storage (250-500GB, for example) is financial. Not in the sense that the larger drives cost more. But that all of us would immediately turn in our current models for the new ones and they'd be stuck with a bunch of units no one would want. The jump from 120G to 160G wasn't enough to get me to exchange, especially since I'd lose programs I'd already recorded. But a jump to 250G would get me to exchange in a second.

they wouldn't be stuck with them, they can give them to all the typical users like bicker

who in their right mind would want more storage

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Your rudeness is juvenile -- surely not up to the standards of the typical rudeness people talking about reality typically experience in this forum.

It isn't a matter "who in their right mind would want more storage". Suppliers worry about what is the best combination of offering and pricing FOR THEM, and that is what they are SUPPOSED to do. Just because you WANT something doesn't make it a supplier's top priority to offer it to you. As it is, I suspect you would complain about the price, if they were to have a 160 GB offering and a separate, higher priced 250 GB offering. I get the impression that you'd look at whatever context presented to you solely from your own personal standpoint and find fault with it, and assign that fault to the other side of the transaction, rather than recognizing the reality of the customer-supplier model in a capitalist economy, i.e., that there is no fault, just everyone looking out for their own best interest. That is your prerogative, but it definitely shows quite a bit if naivete. I hope I have you pegged wrong.

And by the way: My TiVo has 300 GB of storage, bub.

I think the manufacturers should of at least gotten away with 200 or 250 GB drives. Heck Panasonic's first DVR will be 250 GB. Tivo's are larger than 160 GB also.

I'm not asking for 500GB or a whole terabyte. Make that optional with an external drive.

Once it's possible (if ever) to attach an external drive, the few users who need the storage can be responsible for purchasing and maintaining it themselves. Also the mainstream users who could care less wouldn't be affected because after all it is an *optional* component.

With the DRM they should also attach the external drive to your account number, not the box serial. This way if your DVR dies (or a better DVR is available), your external hard drive data is not lost when connecting it to another DVR since it would be on the same account.

The ports are there, the software can be written if its not already, and Dish Network just decided to allow their customers to enable this for a one time fee. Although I don't agree with it, Comcast could also institute a one time fee for this feature. It's another excuse for them to nickel & dime us for something so simple thats already in place, so I don't see why it wouldn't agree to this.

Heck, many providers (not just Comcast) have had the ability to attach eSATA hard drives to Scientific Atlanta DVR's for years now. Scientific Atlanta is a great company and I believe their hardware is much more capable of handling modern features. The guys at Motorola should have the drive and dedication to not only at least match the competition, but to exceed it in all aspects. Knowing you work for a company with top notch products makes your job much more satisfying.

I suspect that another reason why we aren't seeing Comcast DVRs with greatly expanded storage (250-500GB, for example) is financial. Not in the sense that the larger drives cost more. But that all of us would immediately turn in our current models for the new ones and they'd be stuck with a bunch of units no one would want. The jump from 120G to 160G wasn't enough to get me to exchange, especially since I'd lose programs I'd already recorded. But a jump to 250G would get me to exchange in a second.
In retrospect, I think that if we all turned in our old DVRs for new ones, Comcast could just retrofit the old ones with new drives and software, negating my previous point. Also, I think the cost difference between a 160G drive and a 250G drive is almost nil in the quantities we're talking about, so I don't quite buy the pricing argument other than that Comcast, as a "convenient monopoly," could charge more for a larger unit and many of us would pay it because it's inconvenient to switch to another solution.

In retrospect, I think that if we all turned in our old DVRs for new ones, Comcast could just retrofit the old ones with new drives and software, negating my previous point. Also, I think the cost difference between a 160G drive and a 250G drive is almost nil in the quantities we're talking about, so I don't quite buy the pricing argument other than that Comcast, as a "convenient monopoly," could charge more for a larger unit and many of us would pay it because it's inconvenient to switch to another solution.
I'm in the camp that thinks more HDD space in a cable DVR would be justified for a certain market segment, but I can also see that there is no real economic incentive to do it now. When they decide to compete with the TiVos, then they'll have to compete on more than just basic functionality.

Today, the price difference b/w 160GB and 250GB might not be all that great, but at the time the units currently in use were designed, a few years ago (at a minimum), that wasn't necessarily true. And even if the unit costs were close, the overall cost increase for a cable provider purchasing millions of units would likely be in the 10s of millions, or more.

The time and expensive involved in retrofitting thousands, or millions, of DVRs with new HDDs would be enormous. They'd have to buy entirely new drives, instead of just opting for a larger drive at the design stage. What are they going to do with the 160GB drives? They're basically scrap, as they couldn't possibly need that many replacements on hand for replacing bad drives. So you're not talking about a cost differential, you're talking about the unit cost of a 250GB drive, plus all the labor involved in performing upgrades.

In addition, the DCT series boxes only address 160GB of HDD space, max. Even if you pop open the box and put in a 500GB drive, only 160GB will get used. That means a firmware and/or software upgrade would be required, which would also require time and expense. The DCH series, which IMHO should have launched with larger drive models, is likely the same case, as the DCH design is largely based on the DCT.

Why on earth the eSATA and USB ports aren't enabled, I don't know. That's just withholding a feature to charge exorbitantly for it later on.

Why on earth the eSATA and USB ports aren't enabled, I don't know. That's just withholding a feature to charge exorbitantly for it later on.
But it fits perfectly with their existing model of offering the least that they can get away with while extracting the most they can for it.

I've done the DVR authorization/factory and HDD reset on my 3416 a few times hoping to correct some problems. I got this unit from a local guy today. He said he got it from a Comcast installer, but it didn't do what he wanted to so he is selling it. The unit worked at his place, displaying only unscrambled SD and HD channels, DVR function worked. I'm just trying to use it as an HD tuner for my projector, not trying to steal cable TV. I'm paying for Comcast digital cable. I made sure he didn't get any premium or PPV channels before getting it. Back at my place, all I got was "To be announced" and "channel available shortly" messages. I found the wiki entry and followed it, but I'm wondering if I'm not waiting long enough. Once the LED goes dark after the "dl" and the moving square line, I turned the unit on. First time I got very few channels, but they were mapped to the wrong channel number so I tried it again. This last time after the "dl" message went away, the unit turned on to channel 0 and channel up-down has no effect, nor any other key.

I should say I called Comcast (prior to getting the unit) with the serial # and MAC address to make sure I can legally do this because I know how this all sounds. All he told me was I can plug it in and try it, but they won't activate it for me. Didn't even ask for the serial # or any info on it. He asked for my account info, so I'm wondering if he's locked me out. Do they have that kind of control??

If they will not activate it it will not get any channels.

ajwees41

Your rudeness is juvenile -- surely not up to the standards of the typical rudeness people talking about reality typically experience in this forum.

It isn't a matter "who in their right mind would want more storage". Suppliers worry about what is the best combination of offering and pricing FOR THEM, and that is what they are SUPPOSED to do. Just because you WANT something doesn't make it a supplier's top priority to offer it to you. As it is, I suspect you would complain about the price, if they were to have a 160 GB offering and a separate, higher priced 250 GB offering. I get the impression that you'd look at whatever context presented to you solely from your own personal standpoint and find fault with it, and assign that fault to the other side of the transaction, rather than recognizing the reality of the customer-supplier model in a capitalist economy, i.e., that there is no fault, just everyone looking out for their own best interest. That is your prerogative, but it definitely shows quite a bit if naivete. I hope I have you pegged wrong.

And by the way: My TiVo has 300 GB of storage, bub.

you don't know much about me "bub", i have 3 dual tuner DVR's

this is in addition to 4 regular digital cable boxes with the platinum digital package

and that's on top of internet cable with the optional higher speed option

i'm spending close to $300 a month and i do not feel i'm getting my moneys worth

these cable dvr's have unused usb, sata, ethernet and firewire ports that they choose to keep turned off

if they would kindly turn them on, i'd be more than happy to buy my own storage

like i said in a previous post. i could turn all this junk in but it's better than nothing

Still new to HD, don't understand why a program broadcast in HD and transmitted over HDMI (at 1080i) will sometimes show up as a square in the middle of the screen, instead of filling the screen width. I'm sure this is a dumb question, but can someone explain? Thanks!

The normal HD setting on my LCD TV is Stretch, which usually fills the screen. When the program shows up as a square, can change to Smart Stretch and fill the screen, but at some loss of resolution.

That's a bummer, I thought it would work for what I'm subscribed to as if I had a built-in QAM tuner. The DVR portion they can shut off I don't really care. But is that really my problem? It's not like I'm not getting blank channels now. The box is totally unresponsive.

If they will not activate it it will not get any channels.

ajwees41

I'm in the camp that thinks more HDD space in a cable DVR would be justified for a certain market segment, but I can also see that there is no real economic incentive to do it now. When they decide to compete with the TiVos, then they'll have to compete on more than just basic functionality.But that's really the point: There is no need to compete with TiVo: TiVo serves a market niche, and just barely profitable, if even that. The MSOs provide a great option for the vast majority of customers, and TiVo fills the small market niche of folks who want more storage.

In addition, the DCT series boxes only address 160GB of HDD space, max. Even if you pop open the box and put in a 500GB drive, only 160GB will get used.Yes, I think a lot of people forget that. Breaking that 160GB barrier will require a complete system redesign, and I'm not sure but that might even require changes to hardware components, not just software. And there is no reason to believe that the DCH boxes are any different... the DCH is NOT a redesign.

Why on earth the eSATA and USB ports aren't enabled, I don't know. That's just withholding a feature to charge exorbitantly for it later on.The USB ports aren't designed to support external devices. They are there solely to provide power to peripherals. Strange but true. The best information I've seen about why the eSATA drives are disabled is that supporting that port would be far more expensive than the premium the cable company could exact would be. People are simply not willing to pay enough for eSATA.

But it fits perfectly with their existing model of offering the least that they can get away with while extracting the most they can for it.In other words, operating like a for-profit business in the United States.

i'm spending close to $300 a month and i do not feel i'm getting my moneys worthThe definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting different results. If you're spending money and you don't feel you're getting your money's worth, and you don't unsubscribe, then you have only yourself to blame. It's not pretty, but it is reality.

I've done the DVR authorization/factory and HDD reset on my 3416 a few times hoping to correct some problems. I got this unit from a local guy today. He said he got it from a Comcast installer, but it didn't do what he wanted to so he is selling it. The unit worked at his place, displaying only unscrambled SD and HD channels, DVR function worked. I'm just trying to use it as an HD tuner for my projector, not trying to steal cable TV. I'm paying for Comcast digital cable. I made sure he didn't get any premium or PPV channels before getting it. Back at my place, all I got was "To be announced" and "channel available shortly" messages. I found the wiki entry and followed it, but I'm wondering if I'm not waiting long enough. Once the LED goes dark after the "dl" and the moving square line, I turned the unit on. First time I got very few channels, but they were mapped to the wrong channel number so I tried it again. This last time after the "dl" message went away, the unit turned on to channel 0 and channel up-down has no effect, nor any other key.

I should say I called Comcast (prior to getting the unit) with the serial # and MAC address to make sure I can legally do this because I know how this all sounds. All he told me was I can plug it in and try it, but they won't activate it for me. Didn't even ask for the serial # or any info on it. He asked for my account info, so I'm wondering if he's locked me out. Do they have that kind of control??


These STB are NOT sold to the end consumer in the USA. No Comcast employee would be allowed to sell one, heck even the ones on EBAY are either Stolen STB, or purchased legally in Canada then sold on ebay. However, most cable companies WILL NOT activate owned / self purchased STB.

When doing the factory reset / Install authorization, after the STB downloads the STB/DVR/EPG software & Firmware, it will reboot after a short self test.

It will then attempt to download the STB account settings from your account file.

If you have no account, or the STB serial number does not find a matching file stored on the Assigned head end system, then it will not have any settings to activate.

For this STB to work for you. You will need a active account with your cable provider. this account must have the STB serial number and be assigned to the correct head end for your level and selection of service.

without that, you now own a big door stop.

Still new to HD, don't understand why a program broadcast in HD and transmitted over HDMI (at 1080i) will sometimes show up as a square in the middle of the screen, instead of filling the screen width. I'm sure this is a dumb question, but can someone explain? Thanks!

The normal HD setting on my LCD TV is Stretch, which usually fills the screen. When the program shows up as a square, can change to Smart Stretch and fill the screen, but at some loss of resolution.


This is possible if the show was on a network channel, sometimes they forget to throw the switch and turn on the HD signal. or the show was not in WS or HD.

Still new to HD, don't understand why a program broadcast in HD and transmitted over HDMI (at 1080i) will sometimes show up as a square in the middle of the screen, instead of filling the screen width. I'm sure this is a dumb question, but can someone explain? Thanks!

The normal HD setting on my LCD TV is Stretch, which usually fills the screen. When the program shows up as a square, can change to Smart Stretch and fill the screen, but at some loss of resolution.
The pillarboxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillarbox) are part of the broadcast signal. They are part of the network feed or inserted by your local broadcast affiliate when 4:3 content is broadcast in HD.

You need to use the Smart Stretch feature of your TV because, unlike the Stretch mode that only stretches the existing picture to fill the size of your screen, the Smart Stretch has to conceal portions of the broadcast picture in order to display the 'active' content across the whole screen.

Yes, I think a lot of people forget that. Breaking that 160GB barrier will require a complete system redesign, and I'm not sure but that might even require changes to hardware components, not just software. And there is no reason to believe that the DCH boxes are any different... the DCH is NOT a redesign.
I know there's a current 160GB limit on these boxes. And I know software mods would be necessary to address that. But system redesign??? Changing hardware components??? Are you sure about this? Is 160GB some magical number? I can't believe anyone would design a system in which the hardware and operating system are intrinsically tied to a maximum hard disk size. (Oh, wait, Microsoft sort of did that once, didn't they? :) ) Still, that would just be idiotic.

As of August 16, my 3416 now has the TV Guide software instead of Microsoft. Good riddance. My first impressions are positive. It seems far more responsive, especially when watching recorded shows. Another great feature the Microsoft software didn't have, I can now swap between tuners and it maintains a buffer for both tuners. This is a feature I missed from my old DirecTv Tivo. One negative is that I can't figure out how to customize my guide. I have a ton of channels in the guide that I am not subscribed to. In the old software I could select which channels show up in the guide.

Anyone else receive the new software in Washington?

The definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting different results. If you're spending money and you don't feel you're getting your money's worth, and you don't unsubscribe, then you have only yourself to blame. It's not pretty, but it is reality.

can't win your point so you call me "insane" ?

we only have one cable company to pick from, like i said so many times, it's better than nothing or i would have dumped it long ago

*how much you want to bet he's going to tell me to get a dish next?* :rolleyes:

I'm in the camp that thinks more HDD space in a cable DVR would be justified for a certain market segment, but I can also see that there is no real economic incentive to do it now. When they decide to compete with the TiVos, then they'll have to compete on more than just basic functionality.
But that's really the point: There is no need to compete with TiVo: TiVo serves a market niche, and just barely profitable, if even that. The MSOs provide a great option for the vast majority of customers, and TiVo fills the small market niche of folks who want more storage.
I agree, but I think the MSOs, with a TiVo interface, full compatibility with VOD and SDV, and external storage capabilities, will figure out that they can compete with TiVo at higher margins than TiVo gets and for a minimal increase in costs. While 'higer margins than TiVo' might not be a standard for any MSO, I'm saying I think they would find they could make money doing it, and make more than TiVo.

I'm sure TiVo knows they are cannibalizing the market by selling the TiVo interface to cable MSOs. While each may target different market segments, there's always plenty of overlap. The segment any given company targets is irrelevant to me; I have my own list of requirements, which are different than any prescribed to me by a marketing department.

My point is, I'm a real, breathing consumer, and I'm very seriously considering purchasing a TiVo. So far, my feeling has been that no Firewire output is a dealbreaker for me. When I decide I can live with real-time Firewire output from a standard cable STB and storage on a TiVo, then I'll make the switch. But if the TiVo interface becomes available to me on Comcast before then, I'll think twice. If Comcast ever allowed external storage, like Dish Network is doing now, then it would be a done deal. No reason for me to ever buy a TiVo.

No matter how various companies divide their target markets, it doesn't mean they are actually aligned with true market sentiments. So while I understand how they have divided them now, I don't think its optimal. I've mentioned before that I often slip through the cracks of market models, but there are others like me, and there are very real opportunities for all sorts of companies to make or lose customers in this market space.

I'm sure much of this isn't lost on you, but I was thinking it, so I wrote it.

As of August 16, my 3416 now has the TV Guide software instead of Microsoft. Good riddance. My first impressions are positive. It seems far more responsive, especially when watching recorded shows. Another great feature the Microsoft software didn't have, I can now swap between tuners and it maintains a buffer for both tuners. This is a feature I missed from my old DirecTv Tivo. One negative is that I can't figure out how to customize my guide. I have a ton of channels in the guide that I am not subscribed to. In the old software I could select which channels show up in the guide.

Anyone else receive the new software in Washington?

You can not customize the guide. You can NOT remove channels from the listing.

You CAN set up favorites lists.

I've done the DVR authorization/factory and HDD reset on my 3416 a few times hoping to correct some problems. I got this unit from a local guy today. He said he got it from a Comcast installer, but it didn't do what he wanted to so he is selling it. The unit worked at his place, displaying only unscrambled SD and HD channels, DVR function worked. I'm just trying to use it as an HD tuner for my projector, not trying to steal cable TV. I'm paying for Comcast digital cable. I made sure he didn't get any premium or PPV channels before getting it. Back at my place, all I got was "To be announced" and "channel available shortly" messages. I found the wiki entry and followed it, but I'm wondering if I'm not waiting long enough. Once the LED goes dark after the "dl" and the moving square line, I turned the unit on. First time I got very few channels, but they were mapped to the wrong channel number so I tried it again. This last time after the "dl" message went away, the unit turned on to channel 0 and channel up-down has no effect, nor any other key.

I should say I called Comcast (prior to getting the unit) with the serial # and MAC address to make sure I can legally do this because I know how this all sounds. All he told me was I can plug it in and try it, but they won't activate it for me. Didn't even ask for the serial # or any info on it. He asked for my account info, so I'm wondering if he's locked me out. Do they have that kind of control??

Your "local guy" is laughing all the way to the bank. You own an expensive doorstep, anchor or very large paperweight, your choice!

There is no need to compete with TiVo: TiVo serves a market niche, and just barely profitable, if even that. The MSOs provide a great option for the vast majority of customers, and TiVo fills the small market niche of folks who want more storage.

Dunno about that small market niche. There's plenty of folks who would like more storage, but for various reasons don't want to bother with Tivo.

...
One negative is that I can't figure out how to customize my guide. I have a ton of channels in the guide that I am not subscribed to. In the old software I could select which channels show up in the guide.

Anyone else receive the new software in Washington?

Everyone but me, apparently.

Search this document for info on setting up "favorites":
http://www.comcast.com/MediaLibrary/1/2/CM/VanityURL/images/newguide/MoA24VrnOspg_46.pdf

In other words, operating like a for-profit business in the United States.LOL, a perfectly predictable response, could've come from one of the suits there. Wait a minute...

Ok, just for fun, for those who have one Comcast DVR for your household, how about posting what percentage of the hard drive is full? Have you ever had to delete programs or offload recorded programs or record in SD instead of HD to save space? How many people use the DVR?

I'm currently at 68% full, with two people using the DVR, generally at different times. Often record to DVD so I can delete programs from the hard drive. Always have to consider HD vs SD in terms of space available and when I'll be able to delete the programs. Feels like a pretty constant juggling act.

I've tried the Tivo S3, didn't find it significantly better, might end up going with it (or maybe the Tivo HD) just for the external hard drive. But I'd rather not...

Currently, about 38% full. Two people watching, usually at the same time, so I can delete everything after I watch. However, it's summer, so the only HD programs I have set up to record are The Closer, the Treat Williams doctor show on TNT that just ended, Masters of Sci-Fi on ABC, and Letterman. When the fall season starts, it will be about 75% full and I'll have to make sure to watch something every day to avoid having something deleted for me.

There's a coincidence! I was at 68% full when I left for work. But, I have programmed to record Pan's Labyrinth, and Star Trek in HD, and a couple of other things, so it will be nearly full when I get home. I often set up SD programs to be recorded to the 160GB HDD of my DVDR, in real-time, when I go to bed.

Currently, about 38% full. Two people watching, usually at the same time, so I can delete everything after I watch. However, it's summer, so the only HD programs I have set up to record are The Closer, the Treat Williams doctor show on TNT that just ended, Masters of Sci-Fi on ABC, and Letterman. When the fall season starts, it will be about 75% full and I'll have to make sure to watch something every day to avoid having something deleted for me.

I'm pretty sure this is gonna make it into the listing of psychological disorders, possibly under something like TivoStress.

I'm pretty sure this is gonna make it into the listing of psychological disorders, possibly under something like TivoStress.

The best treatment I have found is to actually watch some of the programs I've set up to record. Under normal circumstances, the symptoms of my disorder will begin to go away almost immediately.

We usually hover between 40 and 60 and that with about 4 episodes of Closer that my wife needs to catch up on and a few old movies that we never got around to finishing.

During the season, were between 50 and 70 I would say.

With three people in the house with differing schedules we often found our 160 maxed out during the past winter and had to delete shows that we thought might come around again in reruns. Sadly most haven't so far. Even so the 160 is better than the 120 we had before that died. The 120 was chronically at 90+%.

With the summer doldrums we're running about 30-40%.

250 would likely keep us happy much more often right now but we still record quite a bit of SD which will eventually move to HD. That remaining HD move will probably make the 250 feel like a 160 (cramped) once again.

That move of the remaining interesting shows to HD will likely come before the 250 Panny shows up so to finally get ahead of the curve a 500 would make a lot of sense.

jtm

We usually hover between 40 and 60 and that with about 4 episodes of Closer that my wife needs to catch up on and a few old movies that we never got around to finishing.
...


Since The Closer is available in HD OnDemand, you could save a bit of disk space there.

Since The Closer is available in HD OnDemand, you could save a bit of disk space there.

Brilliant!!! I need to keep an eye out and see whats available on Demand... But having it not even half full is not too bad right now.

I'm pretty sure this is gonna make it into the listing of psychological disorders, possibly under something like TivoStress.

Let's see. How many does that make for me now? :)

I've had a Comcast 3412 connected to a Sony 46XBR2 for quite some time now with no video performance issues. I just introduced an Onkyo SR875 receiver into the mix and I'm having trouble with motion judder on 720p sources (NBC, ABC, TNTHD, On Demand movies, etc.). Everything else looks amazing. I'm working with Onkyo to see if they can resolve it from their side (since the problem occurs even when the Onkyo is set to "pass through" mode and shouldn't be trying to upscale everything to 1080p). However, tonight a user here in the forums (DPlettner) mentioned this thread and I thought I'd check it out.

I've discovered that by setting the 3412 to 720p when watching the problematic sources the problem will go away. However, as probably most everyone here knows, the solution is anything but elegant (power off, menu, set 720p, menu, power on). The reason I'm posting here tonight is to see if anyone has had better luck with another Comcast/Motorola box when it comes to motion judder issues. Would another model gain me anything? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Does anyone know if Motorola is going to introduce a model any time in the near future that will output a native resolution so issues like this won't occur?

Also, and completely off topic - we just swapped out our current 3412 (for the bazillionth time) last week and got one of the new CableCard models (has a different look than the models we'd be getting). I noticed that with only three HD movies recorded it was saying that the PVR was full. Normally, with all the other 3412 models we've had I could get a LOT more HD content recorded. Do these newer 3412's have smaller hard drives? How can I tell what the capacity is?

NOTE: I just checked the box and it's actually a 3416, not a 3412. My mistake.

LushMojo,

Simple answer if your using HDMI, it is the video connection going from the STB to your RCV, and then to the TV/Monitor.

Please just run a cable from the STB directly to your TV/Monitor.

The last 2 digit in the STB model will tell you the size of the HDD. The DCH-3416, or DCH-6416 both use 160gb HDD. There is no DCH-3412 or 6412 Models.

Are

It would certainly be nice to hear from DCH users if this new dvr has improvements over the DCT version.

Yes, I would like to hear from users switchign from DCT to DCH as well. I am going to switch to one of those once the new season begins.

Btw if you think the Moto boxes are buggy, the Pace Vegas SD DVR box makes the Motorola boxes look like giants of reliability :)

Scanpa,

I don't really want to run an HDMI cable from the STB to the TV since the Onkyo receiver has 4 HDMI IN and 1 HDMI OUT. I'm using the receiver as an HDMI switch for all my devices (Xbox 360, DVD player and the Motorola 3416).

Also, I edited my post above since I noticed the box is actually a 3416 rather than 3412. I was completely mistaken.

LushMojo,

Simple answer if your using HDMI, it is the video connection going from the STB to your RCV, and then to the TV/Monitor.

Please just run a cable from the STB directly to your TV/Monitor.

The last 2 digit in the STB model will tell you the size of the HDD. The DCH-3416, or DCH-6416 both use 160gb HDD. There is no DCH-3412 or 6412 Models.

Are

I know there's a current 160GB limit on these boxes. And I know software mods would be necessary to address that. But system redesign??? Changing hardware components??? Are you sure about this? Is 160GB some magical number? I can't believe anyone would design a system in which the hardware and operating system are intrinsically tied to a maximum hard disk size. (Oh, wait, Microsoft sort of did that once, didn't they? :) ) Still, that would just be idiotic.

For SD, especially on ADS systems, 160GB is plenty of time. It can range from 44+ to 100+ hours for SD, depending on the type of channel recorded.

But for HD, 160gb is really a six-pack of VHS tapes. Consider that this is a dual-tuner DVR and you are recording two football/basketball/baseball games in HD in parallel or one after the other. Live HD broadcasts take up more space, and 6-8 hours of this alone will probably take up half of the hard disk space. On football Sundays there's usually 3-4 games. Basically if you can fill up your DVR just by recording the four Sunday football games in HD!

Does the front panel format button on the new version of the 3416 (Cablecard model) work for anyone? I have mine set to 1080i, but when I press the button it doesn't cycle to another format; it simply flashes the IR light once and does nothing else. Is that feature supposed to work? It's described in the manual, but doesn't work as advertised (at least not for me).

I'm assuming the button should do the same thing as powering off, pressing menu, selecting resolution, pressing menu and powering on does. Am I correct?

Do the new DCH boxes still program a 30-second skip?

Does the front panel format button on the new version of the 3416 (Cablecard model) work for anyone? I have mine set to 1080i, but when I press the button it doesn't cycle to another format; it simply flashes the IR light once and does nothing else. Is that feature supposed to work? It's described in the manual, but doesn't work as advertised (at least not for me).

I'm assuming the button should do the same thing as powering off, pressing menu, selecting resolution, pressing menu and powering on does. Am I correct?

The button does nothing on mine. The user guide has an asterisk next to that button, which says "availability of certain features is dependent upon application support" just like the eSATA on the back does.

Do the new DCH boxes still program a 30-second skip?

How would you program a 30 second skip

I wonder if that means that Comcast has to release firmware that enables that feature. Thanks for checking/responding.

The button does nothing on mine. The user guide has an asterisk next to that button, which says "availability of certain features is dependent upon application support" just like the eSATA on the back does.

How would you program a 30 second skip

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Programming_the_Remote

Do the new DCH boxes still program a 30-second skip?

Yes.

I'm not sure but that might even require changes to hardware componentsChanging hardware components??? Are you sure about this? Generally, the words, "I'm not sure" means that someone is -- uh -- not sure. >shrug<

can't win your point so you call me "insane" ?Who called anyone "insane"? What thread are you reading?

*how much you want to bet he's going to tell me to get a dish next?* :rolleyes:Get satellite or do without, or live with what you're offered otherwise, but the key point is take responsibility for your own choices, the ones that have led you to the spot where you feel you have so little control over things that you value so highly.

My point is, I'm a real, breathing consumer, and I'm very seriously considering purchasing a TiVo.Do keep in mind, though, that you're only one customer. As much as folks interested enough in this stuff to spend time online chatting about hate the idea, it is really the vast majority of customers who don't care enough to spend time online chatting about it who drive the industry's offerings.

No matter how various companies divide their target markets, it doesn't mean they are actually aligned with true market sentiments. So while I understand how they have divided them now, I don't think its optimal.Optimal from who's standpoint? From a distributor's standpoint, generally the issues that deflect from optimal are that competitors get in the way, or customers are unwilling to spend enough money.

I've mentioned before that I often slip through the cracks of market models, but there are others like me, and there are very real opportunities for all sorts of companies to make or lose customers in this market space. If no one is supplying a segment, as you suggest, there are actually two possibilities: (1) There is a missed opportunity; or (2) There isn't a missed opportunity. The latter would be accounted for by what I said earlier: customers being unwilling to spend enough money to make the capital expenditure necessary to support the niche offering sufficiently profitable to make that investment that best possible investment for that capital -- in other words, that they couldn't make more money by doing something else with that money.

LOL, a perfectly predictable response, could've come from one of the suits there. No, you'd get that response from any serious capitalist.

Ok, just for fun, for those who have one Comcast DVR for your household, how about posting what percentage of the hard drive is full?17% right now.

Have you ever had to delete programs or offload recorded programs or record in SD instead of HD to save space? No.

How many people use the DVR?Two of us.

The only time we ever get more than 50% full is when we're on vacation for more than a week.

Generally, the words, "I'm not sure" means that someone is -- uh -- not sure. >shrug<

OK, so we don't know if breaking the 160GB barrier will require changing hardware components. You also said, and it seemed to me most definitely:

Breaking that 160GB barrier will require a complete system redesign, ...

What evidence do you have for this?

Ok, just for fun, for those who have one Comcast DVR for your household, how about posting what percentage of the hard drive is full? Have you ever had to delete programs or offload recorded programs or record in SD instead of HD to save space? How many people use the DVR?
...We have two 3416's for our two HiDef TVs and our family of four has them nearly always between 40% and 70% full. One HD sporting event can just about burn all the remaining free space at any time. One of our HiDef TVs is in the family room where we often watch while using our non-notebook PCs or while preparing meals and cleaning up in the kitchen. The other is in the living room which doubles as our home theater and is viewable from the dining room if we want to watch something while eating. Just about everything we watch gets recorded on both 3416's because we often start a show in the family room and move to the living room when family room and kitchen tasks are completed. Alternatively, I may be watching Monday Night Football in the living room while my wife is watching something else in the family room and at some point want to trade places with me. In order to make the move, I'd have to have MNF on the other DVR and have her show(s) at the ready in the living room. It's not an ideal setup.

This is why the whole DRM thing really gets my blood boiling. I used to be able to watch programming from any of our three ReplayTVs on any TV I wanted to. Automatic commercial advance and instant access to any part of a show were standard features and I never had to have duplicate recordings. The hard drives in the Replays could easily be upgraded for more capacity so I wasn't constantly choosing which shows to delete to free up a few hours of space. HiDef DVR's came along and now I have to give up all that functionality just to get time-shifted HD so I can watch the HiDef shows I want to watch when I have time to watch them. Then, our multi-TV family needs multiple costly DVRs in order to get minimal time-shifting functionality. In stark contrast, whole house distribution from one or more media servers of the programming we pay for would be simple and much less wasteful if it weren't for DRM.

17% right now. The only time we ever get more than 50% full is when we're on vacation for more than a week.

Yes, and you might wanna mention your 300G Tivo and any other DVRs you happen to have around. The question was directed at those who have only the one Comcast DVR.

I have the new DCH3416 (swapped for a DCT3416). I was able to get quite a few HD movies and programs recorded on the previous model. However, on the new one I have only one movie recorded right now (Pirates of the Caribbean II) and the capacity is 61%. Does that seem right? This new box seems to fill up with only three movies or so. Our previous box seemed like it was able to hold more even though they should both be the same size drive.

I have the new DCH3416 (swapped for a DCT3416). I was able to get quite a few HD movies and programs recorded on the previous model. However, on the new one I have only one movie recorded right now (Pirates of the Caribbean II) and the capacity is 61%. Does that seem right? This new box seems to fill up with only three movies or so. Our previous box seemed like it was able to hold more even though they should both be the same size drive.
It's remotely possible there could be some corruption causing it to miscalculate space. You may want to power-cycle it, but be aware there is a risk that it could wipe everything if corruption is found. You could even try the DVR reset from the Wikibook as a last resort.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Resets

Does it drop to 0% if you delete everything? Try recording a few minutes of an SD recording, with nothing else recorded. It should show only 1%.

Just a quick story to share:

Two weeks ago I bought two HD LCDs for my condo, which has a contract with Comcast. I called them up and specifically requested two HDMI-compatible HD cable boxes. Of course the tech came with the regular HD boxes that only use component cable. I had to leave a day or so later and I figured I could change it before we wall mount, so I just kept them.

Well I'm going back next week and plan on getting the mounting done, so I thought I'd call to switch out to the HD DVR box that's HDMI compatible for the TV that's getting wall mounted (for less wiring in the back/cleaner look) and the phone tech says "no problem...just costs a one-time fee of $35."

So I'm basically like...nope won't pay it
He counters with "I can cut it in half...17.99"
I'm like...nope, won't pay it...ask for supervisor
Supervisor says "I can cut it in half...17.99"
I'm like...nope won't pay it
Supervisor says "I'll go ahead and make it free"

Damn right!

Yes, and you might wanna mention your 300G Tivo and any other DVRs you happen to have around. The question was directed at those who have only the one Comcast DVR.I only got the TiVo a few months ago. I'm getting on in years, but my memory is not so bad yet that I don't remember what it was like when we only had the one HD DVR in the house. :rolleyes:

Question - I have the 3416 hooked up to my LCD through HDMI ... was wondering if (without putting a splitter in front of my cable feed to the 3416) I can tap off the RF bypass to run an unencrypted cable feed to a DIFFERENT input for use of the TVs PIP feature (our comcast cable has most non-HD channels un-encrpyted).

Question - I have the 3416 hooked up to my LCD through HDMI ... was wondering if (without putting a splitter in front of my cable feed to the 3416) I can tap off the RF bypass to run an unencrypted cable feed to a DIFFERENT input for use of the TVs PIP feature (our comcast cable has most non-HD channels un-encrpyted).
I just tried that the other day. It only worked when the box was off, so I went with the splitter.

Question to anyone that's experienced audio loss where the only remedy was to cut power to the box ... are you running on HDMI? I woke up again this morning to find the audio gone. Power cycle, but it didn't fix the problem this time. Eventually I decided to disconnect the HDMI and go with Component, and the audio came back.

Here's the thing, I wasn't primarily getting my audio through HDMI though. I was using the optical output, but the audio was gone on both. When I switched to Component, I left the optical output hooked up, and got sound back.

I'm going to leave it this way for a bit and see if this helps, but I'm on the verge of swapping this DCT-3416 for a DCH model to see if that will fix the problem once and for all.

Question - I have the 3416 hooked up to my LCD through HDMI ... was wondering if (without putting a splitter in front of my cable feed to the 3416) I can tap off the RF bypass to run an unencrypted cable feed to a DIFFERENT input for use of the TVs PIP feature (our comcast cable has most non-HD channels un-encrpyted).

This would work if the box is off, correct. With the box on, the box sends the video signal over ch 4, and doesn't pass through any other frequencies(although ones on high channels might slip through, with some interference).
Best way is to split and run one to the TV's cable input, hopefully your signal is strong enough to do that.