Agreed. Cox seems to be slipping, while the competition is moving forward. I called yesterday to negotiate a renewal one year agreement and all they did was "slam" Verizon and tell me that I had to pay ~$30 more a month then Verizon (and what I pay today with Cox) for the same service that I have currently. When did Cox get so "cocky"?

Direct TV is announcing strong results and FIOS is expanding (more houses and more HD channels come 8/21...) Doesn't sound like a good time to be messing with your long term customers?

Last year when I renewed they were helpful and matched Verizon's plans.

Why wouldn't one switch? I hear Verizon's customer service is weaker then Cox (not sure if this is true), but I do not hear any differences in terms of their TV, internet, and phone service. My understanding is TV and internet is good to better. They are definitely more aggressive in the newer HD rollouts.

Does anyone have good reasons to stay with Cox? Was I just talking to the wrong people? I tried calling twice and got the same results?

I'm sorry if the csr you spoke to was not that professional. I can assure you that there are additional carriage aggreements in the works both nationally and on the local levels. Cox is just as aggressive on their HD rollouts we just aren't as public, something I personally feel is an error. The big difference is that we operate as local companies and don't always negotiate our carriage agreements nationally. If I might ask what area do you live in?

Thanks for the reply occasio.

I am in Rhode Island, which has historically has been fairly aggressive in local rollouts of COX HD channels.

They are definitely more aggressive in the newer HD rollouts.They can afford to be. They don't support as many (any?) analog channels as Cox has to, so they have the bandwidth to offer more HD. They are also in the mode to entice people to switch while cable is still vulnerable, so pricing and offerings are more aggressive.

Does anyone have good reasons to stay with Cox? Was I just talking to the wrong people? I tried calling twice and got the same results?
DirecTV is still more expensive than Cox here for the services I have and we don't have FIOS. Yes, I'd get more HD for my money with DirecTV, but quantity of channels does not impress me, content does. I've already got HD channels with Cox I never (or rarely) watch, so more of the same from DirecTV is not an enticement to switch.

Then too, there is no playing the "switch" threat here, prices are what they are with DirecTV/Dish being the only real option. Qwest does offer some TV, but not enough to be a threat and they don't seem to be expanding. I suspect Cox has run the numbers and decided not to continue matching offers in your area. I assume you've done your homework and are comparing apples to apples (overall channels, internet speeds, etc.) when talking about the $30. If DirecTV saved me $30/mo overall, I'd probably switch, but since they don't, I'm willing to tough it out with Cox here until EON, SDV, etc., allow for more HD channels.

I live in middle georgia and have one of the weakest HD lineups with cox in the nation. I don't mind it much since I signed up for Dish to get HD channels that I want to watch. What ticks me off is we pay the same amount as the rest of the country and don't get the same programming.

The FIOS people have been wiring my subdivision the past week or so. That means that pretty soon I will have an option to Cox. I understand that they keep stuff close to the chest but they need to give us a reason to stay. My number of HD channels has been stuck in the 30s for a while and all this talk about more is getting a bit old.

I'm sorry if the csr you spoke to was not that professional. I can assure you that there are additional carriage aggreements in the works both nationally and on the local levels. Cox is just as aggressive on their HD rollouts we just aren't as public, something I personally feel is an error. The big difference is that we operate as local companies and don't always negotiate our carriage agreements nationally. If I might ask what area do you live in?

I don't care if cox is not as public, but to annouce channels only when cox has space to add them is getting old. I would like cox to annouce channels that are comming as soon as agreements are made not 1-2 weeks before they launch in our area.

I don't care if cox is not as public, but to annouce channels only when cox has space to add them is getting old. I would like cox to annouce channels that are comming as soon as agreements are made not 1-2 weeks before they launch in our area.
There are national announcements when agreements are signed. They usually include a caveat that it is up to each local market as to when they get added. For example, they announced TBS and CNN back in October 2007 yet TBS wasn't added here for several months and we still don't have CNN. My guess is that they don't pursue channels until either the carriage agreement for the analog channel is up for renewal or they know that some markets will have capacity to add channes, or both.

AJ, be happy you hear anything at all. We don't find out about channels until they are added. Then it's added to the bill as news a month later. My last bill didn't even mention that they just added Lifetime HD, but it made sure to mention the increase in rates.

There are national announcements when agreements are signed. They usually include a caveat that it is up to each local market as to when they get added. For example, they announced TBS and CNN back in October 2007 yet TBS wasn't added here for several months and we still don't have CNN. My guess is that they don't pursue channels until either the carriage agreement for the analog channel is up for renewal or they know that some markets will have capacity to add channes, or both.

Dave I don't mean the national contracts per say, but take Omaha for example our local cox.com/omaha page listed LifetimeHD and a few others a few days before they launched, but other cox locations have new channels as comming a month or two before the launch.

Dave I don't mean the national contracts per say, but take Omaha for example our local cox.com/omaha page listed LifetimeHD and a few others a few days before they launched, but other cox locations have new channels as comming a month or two before the launch.
Gotcha, my bad, and I have to agree with you on that. Even with my contact here, I still don't get much, if any, advanced notice. I've gotten on them in email several times asking them for just a bit of a carrot and letting them know we all know schedules and plans can change for a variety of reasons. They were better with the recent additions of USA, Lifetime, and CNBC, but they still have a ways to go. I must admit we do have quite a few folks who pester them a lot and that helps.

I'm sorry if the csr you spoke to was not that professional. I can assure you that there are additional carriage aggreements in the works both nationally and on the local levels. Cox is just as aggressive on their HD rollouts we just aren't as public, something I personally feel is an error. The big difference is that we operate as local companies and don't always negotiate our carriage agreements nationally. If I might ask what area do you live in?

Ill say Cox WAS more aggressive then all of a sudden we hit the wall. I am not sure if RI is reaching a bandwidth cap or something else, but Verizon is heavily hitting our state. I know since FIOS TV became available in my neighborhood, there has been FIOS trucks (tech\install) there almost every week.

Especially since Verizon has publicly posted the new HD\Digital line up, I am surprised Cox hasn't tried to counter it. The new line up for FIOS goes live here 8/21 with I believe a better HD lineup then Cox. Something that Cox used to pride itself on was that they had the bigger and better HD line up(this was said by a Cox Rep from RI in a radio interview), sadly it looks like they are beginning to fall behind.

IMO I think Cox needs to totally rethink their marketing plans. I think they underestimate the announcement of new channels (even if they are in the future). Take a look at the Buzz FIOS is getting with the 100 HD launch in NY\NNJ. Even though many areas wont get all of the channels until the need of the year, at least they KNOW that there is more coming. Cox says sure there is more coming we just cant say what. They have left their customers in the dark, and I think that's part of the reason that they have people itching to leave.

IMO I think Cox needs to totally rethink their marketing plans.
I don't know what it is with Cox. I've been telling anyone who will listen just that since at least 2003 when we bought our first HDTV. There have been some improvements here, but nothing to combat something like FIOS moving to town with a media blitz. Part of the problem I think is that they have concentrated too much on phone and internet of late and are just now getting back to the TV end of things. The trouble with that is it may already be too late. If I were into sports, I'd have switched to Direct a long time ago. The number of HD channels from both Direct and Dish are an enticement, but there is nothing I really need that I don't already have. I guess I'm just confident they will add most of the available HD channels by the end of the year and that's still good enough for me.

I think they underestimate the announcement of new channels (even if they are in the future). Take a look at the Buzz FIOS is getting with the 100 HD launch in NY\NNJ.
There isn't much Cox can do until they are closer to finishing EON and getting SDV rolling. I try to keep track of national agreements and update my earlier post on the subject, but I just don't see them finializing a lot of agreements until they are closer to being able to carry them. Their stated goal is to standardize offerings througout the country and I have no idea just where they are on that. I think that would go a long way toward allowing them to advertise better on a national level. I've been wathcing those "Friend in Digital Age" commercials and wondering just when my "friend" is going to stop buy for a visit. :)

I think that's part of the reason that they have people itching to leave.
Of all my friends with Cox, only one is "itching to leave" and he's simply being enticed by the Direct/Dish HD ads. Whenever I ask him just what channel he wants, he doesn't know, he just knows they offer more. :)

Dave have you heard anything on cox using Pace boxes instead of Motorola or SA boxes? Also any news on tru2way updates?

Dave have you heard anything on cox using Pace boxes instead of Motorola or SA boxes? Also any news on tru2way updates?
No to both questions. But, I can't imagine a wholesale change to the boxes they use. tru2way should allow them to add whatever boxes they want, but I expect retail outlets to provide those options, not Cox. It's really hard getting info on just what is going to happen post-tru2way. As vegggas has mentioned, there should be 3 IPG options available at some point, including 1 HD, but I haven't seen anything on future boxes from Cox. Maybe vegggas has some info he can share?

No to both questions. But, I can't imagine a wholesale change to the boxes they use. tru2way should allow them to add whatever boxes they want, but I expect retail outlets to provide those options, not Cox. It's really hard getting info on just what is going to happen post-tru2way. As vegggas has mentioned, there should be 3 IPG options available at some point, including 1 HD, but I haven't seen anything on future boxes from Cox. Maybe vegggas has some info he can share?

The reason I asked about the pace boxes is I read Mediacom is using them as cable supplied along woth Moto and SA.

The reason I asked about the pace boxes is I read Mediacom is using them as cable supplied along woth Moto and SA.
I could be wrong, but I don't know that Cox ever used Pace boxes other than with a buyout or merger. From what I remember, folks on other systems liked the Pace box, but I don't recall if that was because at the time SARA was just awful or not. :)

There isn't much Cox can do until they are closer to finishing EON and getting SDV rolling. I try to keep track of national agreements and update my earlier post on the subject, but I just don't see them finializing a lot of agreements until they are closer to being able to carry them. Their stated goal is to standardize offerings througout the country and I have no idea just where they are on that. I think that would go a long way toward allowing them to advertise better on a national level. I've been wathcing those "Friend in Digital Age" commercials and wondering just when my "friend" is going to stop buy for a visit. :)


Of all my friends with Cox, only one is "itching to leave" and he's simply being enticed by the Direct/Dish HD ads. Whenever I ask him just what channel he wants, he doesn't know, he just knows they offer more. :)

Yeah, I have been hearing that for a little bit about trying to move on a more "national level" ;). In New England we have most of the channels offered by Cox In HD, so we dont have much to add to our lineup that Cox doesnt already offer. I guess we are luckier then most in that area, but it still would be nice to at least hear something.

BTW as far as commercials go, I am sick of Digital Max I would like a remote blaster to blast him away....I agree on the "Friend in the Digital Age", If they were a firend they would share information like REAL friends do ;) even if it would be considered gossip. Hell, I'd even take Bonita Bitrell type statement :D.

I am not sure how competition is in your area, but right now Cox here in RI has their hands full with FIOS and both Satellite companies, so right now for the first time in MANY years Cox actually has (valid) competition in our area.

There isn't much Cox can do until they are closer to finishing EON and getting SDV rolling.
I don't know what EON is but I live in what I believe is the first Cox system to implement SDV and, from what I can tell, it didn't make much difference in the paucity of Cox's HD offerings: a few channels were added here and there. Not to say that there hasn't been a difference -- for the worse! I now only have two days program information instead of seven -- the contrast between the COX DVR and TIVO's is even more pronounced. "Interactive TV" has been a complete pooch job and the reliablity, while still good, has dropped from its previous bulletproof status.

As I said in an earlier post, FIOS should be available within the next few months in my neighborhood. I won't switch right away but not out of some loyalty to Cox but out of caution plus the desire not to go through the hassle of changing email addresses and phone numbers, etc. I also want to see how Verizon does with its own HD promises. But I no longer believe Cox's!

I live in what I believe is the first Cox system to implement SDV and, from what I can tell, it didn't make much difference in the paucity of Cox's HD offerings: a few channels were added here and there. Not to say that there hasn't been a difference -- for the worse! I now only have two days program information instead of seven -- the contrast between the COX DVR and TIVO's is even more pronounced.
I seriouly doubt this is because of SDV, but who knows? And I wouldn't expect more HD offerings overnight simply because SDV was implemented, if in fact it was. SDV was announced here too on July 1, but it didn't actually happen and still hasn't happened. There is no word on the delay though.

I seriously doubt this is because of SDV, but who knows?

I didn't intend to imply that SDV was somehow the cause of these issues -- I was noting that despite SDV's implementation, Cox's promise of more HD promises are still just that, promises. Meanwhile, their service has deteriorated.

I didn't intend to imply that SDV was somehow the cause of these issues -- I was noting that despite SDV's implementation, Cox's promise of more HD promises are still just that, promises. Meanwhile, their service has deteriorated.
Ok, misunderstood your post. At any rate, may I ask how you know SDV was implemented there? We got a list of channels that were going to be SDV on July 1, but so far nothing has happened.

Ok, misunderstood your post. At any rate, may I ask how you know SDV was implemented there? We got a list of channels that were going to be SDV on July 1, but so far nothing has happened.

A big deal was made of it in the press last Fall when it happened and the techs that came to my home and I have talked about it. Cox Fairfax was, I believe, the first system to implement it.

Topic title edited.

I didn't intend to imply that SDV was somehow the cause of these issues -- I was noting that despite SDV's implementation, Cox's promise of more HD promises are still just that, promises. Meanwhile, their service has deteriorated.

We have nearly 40 HD channels with Cox. Sure, the boxes are horrendous, but its still a decent lineup, about as good as you can get outside of DirecTV.

OK guys here's the deal. There are multiple upgrades going on in the Cox world. EON is one. This is an upgrade to allow easier upgrades in the future. Odd Huh. Then you have Docsis 3.0. This ups the capacity quite a bit. Then you have SDV, which in being implemented in different parts of the country (NOVA). The final is FTTH in the case of Greenfield homes (new construction). This is some of the stuff I have pulled from across the net & verified at work. There are other projects that I really can't talk about but if you think we would let fios 1up us, you've got another thing coming.

With FiOS already offering 50/20 Internet everywhere and carrying 100 HD channels in some areas (with the rest officially announced to be in place by the end of 2008), there's no question that Cox and the rest of the cable providers have already been one-upped. Cox is currently losing the PQ game too thanks to 3:1 HD groupings. I honestly do hope Cox can roll out new technologies to stay competitive, but it's going to take a lot of money and analog going away to do it.

With FiOS already offering 50/20 Internet everywhere and carrying 100 HD channels in some areas (with the rest officially announced to be in place by the end of 2008), there's no question that Cox and the rest of the cable providers have already been one-upped. Cox is currently losing the PQ game too thanks to 3:1 HD groupings. I honestly do hope Cox can roll out new technologies to stay competitive, but it's going to take a lot of money and analog going away to do it.
I agree with everything but the last part. It seems to me, and I could be so wrong, that SDV will allow virtually unlimited HD and a return to 2/QAM with full pass-through of whatever bitrate (up to 19.3) is broadcast. What am I missing here?

I agree with everything but the last part. It seems to me, and I could be so wrong, that SDV will allow virtually unlimited HD and a return to 2/QAM with full pass-through of whatever bitrate (up to 19.3) is broadcast. What am I missing here?
But do you really think since Cox has gone 3/QAM with little uproar from customers that they would really go back to 2/QAM?

But do you really think since Cox has gone 3/QAM with little uproar from customers that they would really go back to 2/QAM?

Only certain areas have gone 3 QAM & that was not intended to be forever.

But do you really think since Cox has gone 3/QAM with little uproar from customers that they would really go back to 2/QAM?
Yes, I do because if they don't, I will flood them with emails. :)

Once SDV comes, there is no reason for 3/QAM and no reason not to go back to 2. There has been some "uproar" and it hasn't fallen on deaf ears. Now, whether or not those ears have any clout is another matter. The bigger issue to me is getting the networks themselves to provide a full signal to pass. If people want to complain about Cox and then not complain about a given network (and multicasting), then they have no one to blame but themselves for how all this shakes out. Cable is not the only bad guy in this area. Unlike others though, I don't believe MPEG4 is coming any time soon to cable, except as the standard delivery method from the networks.

With FiOS already offering 50/20 Internet everywhere and carrying 100 HD channels in some areas (with the rest officially announced to be in place by the end of 2008), there's no question that Cox and the rest of the cable providers have already been one-upped. Cox is currently losing the PQ game too thanks to 3:1 HD groupings. I honestly do hope Cox can roll out new technologies to stay competitive, but it's going to take a lot of money and analog going away to do it.

Agreed, in RI FIOS now as ~8x available HD channels(with the remaining being released before year end), I think with Cox we arew still at 3x\low 4x. Usually here in New England Cox tries to be 1st to the punch, but it looks like they might have been blindsided with this recent update....With the upcomming addtions I know every channel I watch in HD,plus a few others will be on FIOS.

Just wish Cox would get past its old school thinking and make some announcements....

Cox Communications also said Thursday it would launch the Big Ten Network in Ohio, home of the Buckeyes. Cox serves almost 150,000 in 10 suburbs on Cleveland's west side.

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/08/big_ten_network_nails_mediacom.php

Cox Communications also said Thursday it would launch the Big Ten Network in Ohio, home of the Buckeyes. Cox serves almost 150,000 in 10 suburbs on Cleveland's west side.

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/08/big_ten_network_nails_mediacom.php

I was figuring they would do that in the Big Ten "service areas". I know that some people in the NorthEast were looking for that channel (since Verizon now carries it).

Its good to hear that they are working on "something" for their subscribers. I know some are still waiting for some of the channels we have here in RI. So additions are always welcome :).

However, without some type of hope dot know how much longer I am going to hold out. I like Cox and have been with them for almost 11 years (and used to work for them as well). In RI we don't have much competition, and since FIOS has come to town, it looks like they are actually putting up a good "fight". With the availability of more than 80 HD channels, with another ~20 coming, I am just trying to see what Cox's near future plans are. Really, since FIOS beat you to the punch this time, it would be nice to know what we have to look forward to if anything in the near future. I know usually they hold back to not let the competition know what they are planning, but really when you get beaten to the punch, where the reaction ? ;)

OK guys here's the deal. There are multiple upgrades going on in the Cox world. EON is one. This is an upgrade to allow easier upgrades in the future. Odd Huh. Then you have Docsis 3.0. This ups the capacity quite a bit. Then you have SDV, which in being implemented in different parts of the country (NOVA). The final is FTTH in the case of Greenfield homes (new construction). This is some of the stuff I have pulled from across the net & verified at work. There are other projects that I really can't talk about but if you think we would let fios 1up us, you've got another thing coming.

Here's my problem: while I wait for these upgrades not only is my programming static but the service quality is deteriorating. For example, my program guide is now limited to 24 hours of information. That's it! If I want to see what will be on Monday and program my DVR to record something, I can't. I'll get a "no information" message after waiting for about a half minute. Back when it was limited to seven days, that was okay. When it lacked the TIVO functionality, the trade-off in lower costs was fine. But the quality is going backwards. So, Cox can promise all it wants but when FIOS puts its little hanger on my door within the next few months, I will be receptive in a way I wasn't six months ago.

Here's my problem: while I wait for these upgrades not only is my programming static but the service quality is deteriorating. For example, my program guide is now limited to 24 hours of information. That's it! If I want to see what will be on Monday and program my DVR to record something, I can't. I'll get a "no information" message after waiting for about a half minute. Back when it was limited to seven days, that was okay. When it lacked the TIVO functionality, the trade-off in lower costs was fine. But the quality is going backwards. So, Cox can promise all it wants but when FIOS puts its little hanger on my door within the next few months, I will be receptive in a way I wasn't six months ago.
Have you talked to Cox to find out why your IPG is limited to 24 hours? If so, would you mind sharing what they said? There used to be a time I heard of 3-4 days worth of data at times, but I thought even those days were long gone. I find it hard to believe they've gone backwards to less than 7 days without there being a good reason, and a temporary one at that. If this happened here, it wouldn't take me long to find out what was going on and if it was anything but a temporary thing, I'd be on the phone to DirecTV. I assume you have an SA8300HD DVR (or something comparable).

Thanks, Dave, I'll do that. I just came off a four-month comedy of errors wherein my DVR couldn't record one channel while I watched another or record two channels at once. Multiple visits and boxes didn't solve the problem. Then I noticed that they had replaced my 8300 with an 82-something. When they gave me an 8300 again the problem was solved. What's worse, someone insisted that the 82-something was an upgrade!

So, I've come to distrust Cox (Fairfax) service. Not that they care.

Thanks, Dave, I'll do that. I just came off a four-month comedy of errors wherein my DVR couldn't record one channel while I watched another or record two channels at once. Multiple visits and boxes didn't solve the problem. Then I noticed that they had replaced my 8300 with an 82-something. When they gave me an 8300 again the problem was solved. What's worse, someone insisted that the 82-something was an upgrade!

So, I've come to distrust Cox (Fairfax) service. Not that they care.
The 8240 is an upgrade in the sense that it is newer, might have a little more RAM, and doesn't have an analog tuner. All other chipsets AFAIK are the same as the 8300 though, so "upgrade" is not really an appropriate term. It's just newer, I tested one before they released them here.

Anyway, if you haven't tried a "hard" reboot (hold the Power button while plugging the unit back in), you might consider it. That will force a reload of the software and IPG data. I don't know how long you've been saddled with a 24 hour IPG, but 1 day would be too long for me and I just can't believe that's all they offer.

However, without some type of hope dot know how much longer I am going to hold out. I like Cox and have been with them for almost 11 years

Exactly. I've been with Cox for most of the past twenty years. I have the works -- phone, internet, cable with all the trimmings -- from them but they're not giving me a good reason -- apart from the hassle of switching -- to stay. When I saw FIOS trucks installing stuff in many subdivision a few weeks ago, as I said earlier, I started to think "now (or soon) may be the time." We're stuck at 30-something channels, several of which are HD in name only (the UPN affliate).

I want to stay but Cox needs more than vague promises. They've been promising a lot for a long time.

Anyway, if you haven't tried a "hard" reboot (hold the Power button while plugging the unit back in), you might consider it. That will force a reload of the software and IPG data. I don't know how long you've been saddled with a 24 hour IPG, but 1 day would be too long for me and I just can't believe that's all they offer.

Considering the distance between the 8300 and the outlet, that's not really doable. I can unplug it but doing that while holding down the power button is impossible. Any other ways to do a hard re-boot?

Exactly. I've been with Cox for most of the past twenty years. I have the works -- phone, internet, cable with all the trimmings -- from them but they're not giving me a good reason -- apart from the hassle of switching -- to stay. When I saw FIOS trucks installing stuff in many subdivision a few weeks ago, as I said earlier, I started to think "now (or soon) may be the time." We're stuck at 30-something channels, several of which are HD in name only (the UPN affliate).

I want to stay but Cox needs more than vague promises. They've been promising a lot for a long time.I've only been with Cox here in Phoenix since we moved back on '94, but I've been with cable ever since it was offered. Cable has always been in the forefront on everything but digital signals and this most recent digital/HD transition has definitely thrown them for a loop. Much of this is because they concentrated way too much on internet/phone, but how many of us want to go backwards with internet service? I believe they will get their act together by the end of the year as EON finishes. They did just announce the Big Ten Channel for Ohio, so they are still making deals. I really haven't been able to get any info on why SDV is not here yet and I think that has altered their timetable a bit for nrew HD channels. If they don't have ~80 HD channels by the end of the year, I think they are really going to be hurting. I am cancelling my phone service when I retire so I will lose the bundle discount. That will force me to look at the numbers and see who gives me the most for my money. Right now I'm content to wait, but how long is another question. :)

Considering the distance between the 8300 and the outlet, that's not really doable. I can unplug it but doing that while holding down the power button is impossible. Any other ways to do a hard re-boot?
Simply reach your hand over the 8300 (or along the side) and pull the power cord out of the back, not the wall plug. Just pull it out enough to lose power, wait 15 seconds or so, and then hold the Power button with your other hand while you work the power plug back in. The power plug is on the left side as you face the 8300. If the 8300 is tucked in a cabinet so that you can't get your hand around, then I'm surprised you don't have heat related problems. If push comes to shove, get a neighbor or friend to work the plug at the outlet while you hold the Power button. Hold the button until you see "boot" appear on the display and then wait for the reboot to finish. This could take a few minutes or so.

Simply reach your hand over the 8300 (or along the side) and pull the power cord out of the back, not the wall plug. Just pull it out enough to lose power, wait 15 seconds or so, and then hold the Power button with your other hand while you work the power plug back in. The power plug is on the left side as you face the 8300. If the 8300 is tucked in a cabinet so that you can't get your hand around, then I'm surprised you don't have heat related problems. If push comes to shove, get a neighbor or friend to work the plug at the outlet while you hold the Power button. Hold the button until you see "boot" appear on the display and then wait for the reboot to finish. This could take a few minutes or so.

Thanks. Actually, this occurred to me after I replied to you. This is simple. I'm assuming that I will have to go through set up again, no?

OK guys here's the deal. There are multiple upgrades going on in the Cox world. EON is one. This is an upgrade to allow easier upgrades in the future. Odd Huh. Then you have Docsis 3.0. This ups the capacity quite a bit. Then you have SDV, which in being implemented in different parts of the country (NOVA). The final is FTTH in the case of Greenfield homes (new construction). This is some of the stuff I have pulled from across the net & verified at work. There are other projects that I really can't talk about but if you think we would let fios 1up us, you've got another thing coming.

which of these deals with better HD picture quality?

which of these deals with better HD picture quality?

none of theese deal with signal quality that would have to do with the original source and the cable in your house.

Considering the distance between the 8300 and the outlet, that's not really doable. I can unplug it but doing that while holding down the power button is impossible. Any other ways to do a hard re-boot?

I have to agree that there is some other type of problem if you are getting only 24 hours of data. I am not as familiar w/ the SA boxes b/c we only use moto in hampton roads. You can take the statements I made as fact, not as promises. NOVA is the #1 concern for upgrades in Cox right now. If I was you I would have 20 more techs come out until they fix the problem & request credit until it is fixed. Next time you call in ask to speak to a supervisor. I wish I could help you more but I don't have any connects in that system.

Thanks. Actually, this occurred to me after I replied to you. This is simple. I'm assuming that I will have to go through set up again, no?
Sorry, been on the road all day and stopped for the night in Las Vegas NM.

Anyway, IIRC I haven't had to go through initial setup or anything else again.

Occasio have you heard anything as to how long the Motorola customers have to wait to get upgraded to Passport Echo 3.0?

none of theese deal with signal quality that would have to do with the original source and the cable in your house.

it would also have to do with any additional compression done by the provider (ie Cox) after getting the signal from the source.

it would also have to do with any additional compression done by the provider (ie Cox) after getting the signal from the source.

cox does not compress anywhere.

cox does not compress anywhere.

Of course they do. First all, all HD is compressed. However Cox is compressing the channels even more. They squeeze at least 3 HD channels per QAM channel. In order to pass HD channel without farther compression you can't put more than 2. However they are not alone. Pretty much all cable now compresses the channels more.

Of course they do. First all, all HD is compressed. However Cox is compressing the channels even more. They squeeze at least 3 HD channels per QAM channel. In order to pass HD channel without farther compression you can't put more than 2. However they are not alone. Pretty much all cable now compresses the channels more.

Omaha doesn't compress.

They do in Topeka. The quality went way down when they added more channels a couple of months ago.

They do in Topeka. The quality went way down when they added more channels a couple of months ago.

what are your signal levels on the HD box? I have a crapy signal and about 35-36 HD and they look great.

cox does not compress anywhere.
What makes you make this statement?

What makes you make this statement?

because I have a crappy signal and the picture quality is excellent.

Anyone else not getting HBO HD for the free preview weekend? Getting Cinemax HD here on Cox Phoenix just fine, but HBO HD is giving the standard message saying to call to order.

cox does not compress anywhere.

Wrong.

because I have a crappy signal and the picture quality is excellent.
Well, I guess we can take that to the bank, right? :D

Anyway, with the channel lineup I just checked, I think you might find that they do compress some channels. When they added our latest channels (you have even more than we do), they started going to 3/QAM. They do a little better job here of matching some channels that broadcast lower bitrates with others of the same ilk, but not always. Most folks don't even know it's happening until some live sports or something with a lot of fast action comes on. Even then, they are used to some breakups, inferior PQ because of multicasting, etc., so they just ignore. Of course, if they are using SDV there, then all bets are off. Probably not even worth discussing though. :)

For the HBO free preview weekend, I would have expected a better selection of movies.

Anyone else not getting HBO HD for the free preview weekend? Getting Cinemax HD here on Cox Phoenix just fine, but HBO HD is giving the standard message saying to call to order.I'm getting both HBO and Cinemax in HD here in the San Diego area on the free preview.

I'm getting both HBO and Cinemax in HD here in the San Diego area on the free preview.

We have HBO and don't have Cinemax and there is free preview in Omaha.

akwees41,

I noticed a note in your channel lineup that says AMC-HD was coming soon. Did you get it yet? If so, how is the quality?

akwees41,

I noticed a note in your channel lineup that says AMC-HD was coming soon. Did you get it yet? If so, how is the quality?

it hasn't launched yet also from talking to a few friends MHD and few others were being tested along with AMCHD.

Omaha is also finishing the 1Ghz upgrade and Eon upgrade and we are supposed to have 80 or total hd by the end of the year.

My post about no HD compression in our area migt change if they try to add more hd and regular hd before the whole upgrade is done(Eon,SDV,)

it hasn't launched yet also from talking to a few friends MHD and few others were being tested along with AMCHD.

Omaha is also finishing the 1Ghz upgrade and Eon upgrade and we are supposed to have 80 or total hd by the end of the year.

My post about no HD compression in our area migt change if they try to add more hd and regular hd before the whole upgrade is done(Eon,SDV,)
Thanks for the info.

Sorry, been on the road all day and stopped for the night in Las Vegas NM.

Anyway, IIRC I haven't had to go through initial setup or anything else again.

I'm sorry for not getting back earlier: unplugging and re-plugging the box did the trick. I now have a full week of info.

cox does not compress anywhere.

Wrong. They most certainly do. These compression schemes that all the sat/cable operators are doing, in order to add more HD channels, reminds me of the crap the cellular providers pulled back in mid to late 90's. Remember when we got "crystal clear" digital cellphone? It like like an overnight drop in call quality. It has very slowly improved over the years. But...

The problem is many people don't even know what the previous (less compressed) or uncompressed HD is supposed to look like. So, now they've just accepted this as the norm.

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

Wrong. They most certainly do. These compression schemes that all the sat/cable operators are doing, in order to add more HD channels, reminds me of the crap the cellular providers pulled back in mid to late 90's. Remember when we got "crystal clear" digital cellphone? It like like an overnight drop in call quality. It has very slowly improved over the years. But...

The problem is many people don't even know what the previous (less compressed) or uncompressed HD is supposed to look like. So, now they've just accepted this as the norm.

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

who know this how? Like I said Omaha is not compressing yet.

who know this how? Like I said Omaha is not compressing yet.
I sure wish I could come up there and go through the frequencies to show that there are almost certainly some HD channels stuffed 3 per QAM in Omaha, just like there are in every other Cox market now until EON is finished and SDV is implemented. Given the available bandwidth and the number of HD channels in Omaha, I don't know of any way they can offer that many channels without recompressing some.

Here is a link to the data I put together for the Phoneix QAM list and it clearly shows several cases where there are 3 HD channels on the same frequency. The only way this can be done is by recompressing these to fit. Some channels themselves don't send the full 19.3 mbps, so those are not recompressed as much as others. Each QAM is 38.6, so 3 channels can only average less than 13 mbps each, and that includes the space needed for audio.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pW8Y1nLWmTqEUQSSwJ5hWTQ

Unfortunately, since there is no similar frequency table for Omaha, this is all conjecture as it relates to Omaha, but everything points to them recompressing just like everyone else. It's just not something you can see by flipping through channels. I would never had noticed this had someone not captured TSR data for some recordings and delved deeper into why the bitrates were so low, especially compared to recordings from other locations/cablecos. Since all Cax markets don't recompress the same channels, it's fairly easy for those who exchange files/data to see the differences.

BTW, it's a good thing not much else is going on in this thread because this is just not worth arguing about. None of us has the data to prove things one way or the other and hopefully it will eventually be a moot point. :)

Cox Omaha:


On october 15

Mojo will be removed

MTV2 moves from 61 to 266

MTV Jams added to 267

FSNHD 745

LifeTime Movie Network HD 761

Hallmark Movie Channel HD 762

Nickelodeon HD 791

WGNHD 826

PalladiaHD 840


MTVHD 841

VH1HD 846

CMTHD 848

SpikeHD 857

Comedy HD 858

Cox Omaha:
I wonder if Lifetime Movies HD will be in HD since Lifetime HD here in Phoenix is not in HD, it is just a rebroadcast of the west coast SD feed.

I sure hope we keep Mojo in our next go around of adds, I really enjoy Three Sheets and Pressure Cook. But kind of makes since now days, delete a 100% HD channel to make room for a Stretch-O-Vision channel that shows Seinfeld reruns 3 hours a day.

Cox Omaha:
FWIW, I updated the master list based on this list of additions for Omaha:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14144051#post14144051

who know this how? Like I said Omaha is not compressing yet.Again, this is wrong. My sources tell me all Cox systems are.

Again, this is wrong. My sources tell me all Cox systems are.

Come on Ken, don't ruin his fantasy. He's in denial.:D

Come on Ken, don't ruin his fantasy. He's in denial.:D
I gave up arguing the point because I have no way to prove it, even though I "know" they are compressing some channels and will continue to do so until at least Oct 15 (or whenever they implement SDV). They simply do not have bandwidth available to add all those new HD channels without compressing or using SDV technology.

I gave up arguing the point because I have no way to prove it, even though I "know" they are compressing some channels and will continue to do so until at least Oct 15 (or whenever they implement SDV). They simply do not have bandwidth available to add all those new HD channels without compressing or using SDV technology.

Dave here is a quote from an Omaha CSR At this time I cannot give you a lot of information on SDV other than to say it’s not in our plans short term. I know that we do have SDV in some Cox markets but I’m not sure if our roll out will be similar to theirs or not. Things seem to change over time.

We did just complete an upgrade to our network earlier this year which gave us some much needed channel space. Over the coming months you see several channels added to our lineup, specifically HD programming.


Like I said Omaha might be compressing , but they also might be doing a better job compared to the SA/Cisco area of managing bandwidth. I have no way to check to be sure one way or the other.

Like I said Omaha might be compressing , but they also might be doing a better job compared to the SA/Cisco area of managing bandwidth. I have no way to check to be sure one way or the other.
I'll give you that much. Like I said, I have no way to prove anything, so it's pretty much a moot point and really doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference, other than for arguments sake. I'm certainly not calling you a liar or anything of the sort. You comment based on what info you have just like the rest of us. :)

It's entirely possible Omaha doesn't have near the internet and telephone users that other Cox markets do and therefore don't need to dedicate as much bandwidth to those services. It's also possible they've moved more analog channels to the digital tier freeing up more bandwidth for HD. And they might allocate based on viewers to make any compression less noticeable. Even here with compression, I'd be hard pressed to tell you which channels are compressed without access to a frequency chart like the one I've posted for Phoenix.

If there is no way for you to access information that shows you the frequency for each channel there, then I don't know of any way to determine if there are 3 HD channels on a given frequency. SA units have a diagnostics page that shows frequencies and it's not too difficult to make a spreadsheet chart of all the HD channels and see if any frequency contains 3 HD channels. Again though, it's just not worth the effort.

Dave here is a quote from an Omaha CSR.....Well, it may be news to you, but there is better, more accurate info available here than from a Cox CSR.

I'll give you that much. Like I said, I have no way to prove anything, so it's pretty much a moot point and really doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference, other than for arguments sake. I'm certainly not calling you a liar or anything of the sort. You comment based on what info you have just like the rest of us. :)

It's entirely possible Omaha doesn't have near the internet and telephone users that other Cox markets do and therefore don't need to dedicate as much bandwidth to those services. It's also possible they've moved more analog channels to the digital tier freeing up more bandwidth for HD. And they might allocate based on viewers to make any compression less noticeable. Even here with compression, I'd be hard pressed to tell you which channels are compressed without access to a frequency chart like the one I've posted for Phoenix.

If there is no way for you to access information that shows you the frequency for each channel there, then I don't know of any way to determine if there are 3 HD channels on a given frequency. SA units have a diagnostics page that shows frequencies and it's not too difficult to make a spreadsheet chart of all the HD channels and see if any frequency contains 3 HD channels. Again though, it's just not worth the effort.


I took a look last night and it looks like Omaha's ABC,CBS,NBC HD are on the same qam's it looks like they group the broadcast channels on the same qam's maybe that's a way to manage the bandwidth better. I have no confromation, but it looks like it is 3 HD's/ qam.

I took a look last night and it looks like Omaha's ABC,CBS,NBC HD are on the same qam's it looks like they group the broadcast channels on the same qam's maybe that's a way to manage the bandwidth better. I have no confromation, but it looks like it is 3 HD's/ qam.
If they are all on the same frequency, then they almost certainly compress in Omaha too. It's very doubtful they would all be broadcasting at an average of only 13 mbps, including audio.

If they are all on the same frequency, then they almost certainly compress in Omaha too. It's very doubtful they would all be broadcasting at an average of only 13 mbps, including audio.
Not only that, but if all 3 are indeed on the same QAM, then Omaha is actually worse off than most Cox markets. In most areas, Cox does not apply any recompression to local channels and simply pairs 2 19Mb/s ATSC channels into a 38Mb/s QAM channel. Recompression is reserved for national channels.

Not only that, but if all 3 are indeed on the same QAM, then Omaha is actually worse off than most Cox markets. In most areas, Cox does not apply any recompression to local channels and simply pairs 2 19Mb/s ATSC channels into a 38Mb/s QAM channel. Recompression is reserved for national channels.
I tried to see if the locals up there multicast and I couldn't tell for sure, even looking at individual websitesand the Cox channel lineup. Of the 3 channels mentioned, I think CBS might, not that it makes a big difference. Since ABC is 720p, I suppose that helps a bit, but still, having 3 locals on the same QAM doesn't seem very prudent.

FWIW, I updated the master list based on this list of additions for Omaha:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14144051#post14144051
Dave, could you get the master list moved to the first page of the thread? It's hard to find when I need it.

Dave, could you get the master list moved to the first page of the thread? It's hard to find when I need it.
I can try, but the owner of the first post hasn't posted on AVS since early January, so it's probably pretty doubtful. If I can get him to respond to a PM, the best I can do is have him add a link to that post otherwise I won't be able to update the data in it. I myself have had to bookmark it so I can find the darned thing when I need to update it. The way to do that is to select the LINK button (upper right corner of post) and then add that page to your Favorites.

Edit: I just send him a PM, so we'll see. In the meantime, here's the link to that post so you can add it to your Favorites (right-click and select Add To Favorites):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14144051#post14144051

Dave Have you if MOJOHD is being removed nationally or just Cox?

CSR reply The reason MojoHD is being removed is the Network is removing itself nationally.

I find that hard to believe that the channel is going under. I think they had just announced another series they picked up like Heroes. The owner of the channel is Cox, Comcast & Time Warner.

That stinks if MOJO is going away altogther. There are some really interesting shows on there.

I find that hard to believe that the channel is going under. I think they had just announced another series they picked up like Heroes. The owner of the channel is Cox, Comcast & Time Warner.

I think Cox might be droping it and that is why it hasn't made headlines.

Here is the current lineup Cox Western Ark (Fayetteville-Rog-Springdale)
34. Hope we get more, including weather HD..

700 KAFT (PBS)
707 KHOG (ABC-Fayetteville)
708 KFTA (Fox)
710 KFSM (CBS-Ft.Smith)
714 Lifetime
715 KNWA (NBC-Fayetteville)
718 USA
719 CNBC
720 KTUL (ABC-Tulsa)
721 CNN
722 TBS
723 TLC
724 Discovery
726 NFL
727 HGTV
728 Food
729 History
730 A&E
731 TNT
732 ESPN
733 ESPN2
734 HD Theater
735 Universal
736 Mojo
737 NatGeo
738 Travel
739 Palladia
740 HBO
741 Cinemax
742 Showtime
744 Starz
745 Animal Planet
746 Science
747 Vs/Golf

Here is the current lineup Cox Western Ark (Fayetteville-Rog-Springdale)
34. Hope we get more, including weather HD..

700 KAFT (PBS)
707 KHOG (ABC-Fayetteville)
708 KFTA (Fox)
710 KFSM (CBS-Ft.Smith)
714 Lifetime
715 KNWA (NBC-Fayetteville)
718 USA
719 CNBC
720 KTUL (ABC-Tulsa)
721 CNN
722 TBS
723 TLC
724 Discovery
726 NFL
727 HGTV
728 Food
729 History
730 A&E
731 TNT
732 ESPN
733 ESPN2
734 HD Theater
735 Universal
736 Mojo
737 NatGeo
738 Travel
739 Palladia
740 HBO
741 Cinemax
742 Showtime
744 Starz
745 Animal Planet
746 Science
747 Vs/Golf

How did you get lucky getting 2 channels of ABCHD?

How did you get lucky getting 2 channels of ABCHD?

Probably by living in one corner of the state? :D

Programming varies, as always. This weekend we have college FB on ABC-Fay and Andy Griffith on ABC Tul at the same time :)

Dave Have you if MOJOHD is being removed nationally or just Cox?

CSR reply The reason MojoHD is being removed is the Network is removing itself nationally.
I asked the question, but have not gotten a response as yet. This is one of those questions I may not get an answer to. :)

I asked the question, but have not gotten a response as yet. This is one of those questions I may not get an answer to. :)

I wonder if it's all cox locations will they get to air until the carriage contract runs out for a certain area.

I wonder if it's all cox locations will they get to air until the carriage contract runs out for a certain area.
No idea. So far, you are the only one saying it is going away, in Omaha. Maybe folks in other markets will start asking questions and provide some comments. I see you posted over on Mojo, so be sure to let us know what kind of comments you get.

How did you get lucky getting 2 channels of ABCHD?

We have 2 ABCs here in Niceville FL as well. Only the Panama City ABC doesn't play all of it's ABC regular programming in HD like the Pensacola ABC does. Madagascar was on a few weeks ago and it looked amazing in HD on the Pensacola ABCHD. Panama City's looked awful on the regular SD and was showing the same feed on their HD version.

No idea. So far, you are the only one saying it is going away, in Omaha. Maybe folks in other markets will start asking questions and provide some comments. I see you posted over on Mojo, so be sure to let us know what kind of comments you get.

Dave I just got a new reply from a cox person who posts at broadband reports

It's a national move by MojoHD. The decision was made by parent company iN DEMAND to cease operating the channel. Select Mojo HD content will remain available via On Demand. Mojo Mix Hd On Demand offer select Mojo shows and music videos free On Demand to digital cable subscribers with HD service .

Dave I just got a new reply from a cox person who posts at broadband reports

It's a national move by MojoHD. The decision was made by parent company iN DEMAND to cease operating the channel. Select Mojo HD content will remain available via On Demand. Mojo Mix Hd On Demand offer select Mojo shows and music videos free On Demand to digital cable subscribers with HD service .
Thanks. It kind of makes sense to utilize VOD for much of what MOJO offers. The only problem I see is not being able to see what new programming is coming without going to the MOJO site or surfing through the VOD menus. Is there an easier way to see what's on than navigating the VOD menus?

How did you get lucky getting 2 channels of ABCHD?

KHBS/KHOG is the local ABC affiliate and it is a Hearst-owned station. They attempted to force Cox to pay for carriage of the HD signal. Cox refused so they pulled the HD channel from Cox. Cox then added KTUL HD from Tulsa. Hearst and Cox later reached some sort of agreement and added back KHBS/KHOG.

It's nice for ABC regional football coverage, as sometimes the two stations get assigned different games.

KHBS/KHOG is the local ABC affiliate and it is a Hearst-owned station. They attempted to force Cox to pay for carriage of the HD signal. Cox refused so they pulled the HD channel from Cox. Cox then added KTUL HD from Tulsa. Hearst and Cox later reached some sort of agreement and added back KHBS/KHOG.
I suspect that if you could get some insider info on this you'd find that Cox is now paying cash and the disagreement was over just how much. It seems cableco's are all now paying cash for locals right along with Dish and DirecTV. Since Cox here began paying for locals (I'm not sure all yet), I've noticed a dramatic difference in the advertising on cablenets. Before Cox started paying cash, they compensated locals with ad time and you saw a lot of local ads where you now see different ads, often from Cox itself. :)

Just an update. I heard back from the OP of the First Post and he agreed to edit it to add the link to the list of channels. Not sure when it will get done, but I'll let everyone know when I see it.

I can try, but the owner of the first post hasn't posted on AVS since early January, so it's probably pretty doubtful. If I can get him to respond to a PM, the best I can do is have him add a link to that post otherwise I won't be able to update the data in it. I myself have had to bookmark it so I can find the darned thing when I need to update it. The way to do that is to select the LINK button (upper right corner of post) and then add that page to your Favorites.

Edit: I just send him a PM, so we'll see. In the meantime, here's the link to that post so you can add it to your Favorites (right-click and select Add To Favorites):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14144051#post14144051

Any rumors that we'll be getting HDNET in 2009 in Fairfax VA:confused:

Any rumors that we'll be getting HDNET in 2009 in Fairfax VA:confused:

I asked a similar question in the DC/Baltimore thread. The announced additions for October 22 have me less-than-whelmed. FIOS finished wiring my subdivision in late August, so it shouldn't be that long and I'm ready to switch despite the hassles (I get phone, cable and Internet from Cox -- apart from my mortgage and car payments, it's the single-biggest bill I pay every month. Bye-Bye.)

Cox has dropped the ball on HD despite promises to catch up. I no longer believe them. Instead of HDNet, we get CMT-HD! I like country music okay but they have got to be kidding us!

This is from a letter to the CT DPUC from COX:
InDemand, the owner of MOJO RD, has announced that it will be canceling its MOJO HD regularly scheduled programming by the end of the year, but will continue to provide OnDEMAND programs.

COX in CT is dropping MOJO on 10/29.

http://www.dpuc.state.ct.us/DPUCUndo...b?OpenDocument

This is from a letter to the CT DPUC from COX:
InDemand, the owner of MOJO RD, has announced that it will be canceling its MOJO HD regularly scheduled programming by the end of the year, but will continue to provide OnDEMAND programs.

COX in CT is dropping MOJO on 10/29.

http://www.dpuc.state.ct.us/DPUCUndo...b?OpenDocument

Also, they'll be adding Lifetime Movie Network HD & Hallmark Movie Channel HD.

This is from a letter to the CT DPUC from COX:
InDemand, the owner of MOJO RD, has announced that it will be canceling its MOJO HD regularly scheduled programming by the end of the year, but will continue to provide OnDEMAND programs.

COX in CT is dropping MOJO on 10/29.

http://www.dpuc.state.ct.us/DPUCUndo...b?OpenDocument

Omaha is loosing Mojo on October 15th.

Also, they'll be adding Lifetime Movie Network HD & Hallmark Movie Channel HD.

Omaha is adding those plus WGNHD,CMTHD,MTVHD,PalladiaHD, Nickelodeon HD,SpikeHD,ComedyHD,FSNHD,VH1HD. all on October 15th 2008. We are also getting NHL Network,MTVJams, and MTV2 is moving to digital.

I asked a similar question in the DC/Baltimore thread. The announced additions for October 22 have me less-than-whelmed. FIOS finished wiring my subdivision in late August, so it shouldn't be that long and I'm ready to switch despite the hassles (I get phone, cable and Internet from Cox -- apart from my mortgage and car payments, it's the single-biggest bill I pay every month. Bye-Bye.)

Cox has dropped the ball on HD despite promises to catch up. I no longer believe them. Instead of HDNet, we get CMT-HD! I like country music okay but they have got to be kidding us!

There is bad blood between Mark Cuban and Cox. MOJO was created by Cox, Comcast and Time Warner to compete with HDNet. In the industry MOJO was referred to as "the Cuban killer." I'm not clear on details but Cuban apparently alienated these cable companies while he was trying to get HDNet off the ground. Also, Comcast owns the Philadelphia 76ers and Cablevision owns the New York Knicks. It seems they have not enjoyed a good working relationship with Cuban who owns the Dallas Mavericks. Now that InDemand is pulling the plug on MOJO, except for on demand, who knows. Maybe Cox will consider HDNet but I doubt it. I hope I'm wrong.

Attitudes may be softening with Comcast agreeing earlier this month to carry HDNet and HDNet Movies. I don't know if this had anything to do with pulling the plug on MOJO or if Cox will follow suit but we can always hope.

There is bad blood between Mark Cuban and Cox. MOJO was created by Cox, Comcast and Time Warner to compete with HDNet. In the industry MOJO was referred to as "the Cuban killer." I'm not clear on details but Cuban apparently alienated these cable companies while he was trying to get HDNet off the ground. Also, Comcast owns the Philadelphia 76ers and Cablevision owns the New York Knicks. It seems they have not enjoyed a good working relationship with Cuban who owns the Dallas Mavericks. Now that InDemand is pulling the plug on MOJO, except for on demand, who knows. Maybe Cox will consider HDNet but I doubt it. I hope I'm wrong.

Attitudes may be softening with Comcast agreeing earlier this month to carry HDNet and HDNet Movies. I don't know if this had anything to do with pulling the plug on MOJO or if Cox will follow suit but we can always hope.

Cox Orange county already offers HDnet,HDnet movies and HD theater in a seperate $4.95/month tier

Cox Orange county already offers HDnet,HDnet movies and HD theater in a seperate $4.95/month tier

:) Thanks, I don't know how I missed that.

Cox Orange county already offers HDnet,HDnet movies and HD theater in a seperate $4.95/month tier
Well I like free better but I would probably go for the $4.95 if it included HD movies. Amadeus, 'the Color of Money', and similar in HD is really pretty impressive for that money and compared to HBO. We also like to watch HD movie trailers which is a big feature of HDNet apparently. The movie trailers on InDemand HD are a big joke..

Cox Orange county already offers HDnet,HDnet movies and HD theater in a seperate $4.95/month tier
So does San Diego, but AFAIK those are local agreements sanctioned by Cox-Corporate. The point of contention has been that Cuban wants the channels offered as a separate tier for a higher price per tier sub and Cox has always wanted all HD to be free of any added charge ever since they did away with charging separately for HD Theater back in the day. I do not know why they allow San diego and Orange County to offer them separately, but I would gladly accept that option. Economically, I don't know the difference between $x.xx/digital sub vs $4.95/tier sub. I'd hate to thinkit was simply another case of bad blood and stubborness.

Dave on the HDnet,HDnet movies in a additional charge tier if Omaha, or any other area that just went through retransmisson agreements with the local channels and said hd is free I hope the local channels don't use this to pull the HD signals like our local ABC affliate did since they thought cox charges for HD.

HDNet wants their channels available to all HD subs and wants to get paid for all HD subs. Cox doesn't want to charge any subs for HD, but would need a way to get money to compensate HDNet. Putting them in a separate tier is a compromise: HDNet gets some viewers, but not as many as they would as part of the normal HD tier; Cox doesn't completely ignore their ideals since they don't have to charge those who don't want the channels.

Personally, I prefer the approach taken by FiOS: HDNet is part of the normal HD tier available to all, while HDNet Movies is part of the movie tier (extra cost).

Personally, I prefer the approach taken by FiOS: HDNet is part of the normal HD tier available to all, while HDNet Movies is part of the movie tier (extra cost).
I believe Movies is at the heart of the problem and I never understoood why Cox is so hard-over on this issue. If San Diego and Orange County can offer them, everyone should be able to. If Cox offers a movie tier, I don't see that as any different than HBO, except the cost "with Movies" would probably have to double for the tier. I think it's too much to do about nothing over $4.95/mo.

Dave on the HDnet,HDnet movies in a additional charge tier if Omaha, or any other area that just went through retransmisson agreements with the local channels and said hd is free I hope the local channels don't use this to pull the HD signals like our local ABC affliate did since they thought cox charges for HD.
I don't see that as a problem because Cox is now paying cash for those locals. Before, I ccould see it as an issue because it was free advertising, etc., and not cash. Plus, eventually the locals will be nothing but digital/HD, so that should also make it a non-issue. But then, this is TV we're talking about where the greedy get greedier. :)

I believe Movies is at the heart of the problem and I never understoood why Cox is so hard-over on this issue. If San Diego and Orange County can offer them, everyone should be able to. If Cox offers a movie tier, I don't see that as any different than HBO, except the cost "with Movies" would probably have to double for the tier. I think it's too much to do about nothing over $4.95/mo.

Dave what other channels would be in the movie tier? I am going to guess the bandwidth wasn't there.

Dave what other channels would be in the movie tier? I am going to guess the bandwidth wasn't there.
The Cox-Phoenix Movie Tier contains FLIX, Sundance, Encore, Encore Action, Encore Mystery, Encore Love, Encore Drama, Encore Westerns, and Independent Film Channel. I'd tend to agree about bandwidth if it weren't for the fact that HDNet Movies would be an added revenue stream. Surely they would have added that if they could have instead of some of the other channels many folks don't bother to watch. I'd really love to see viewership numbers for all Cox HD channels, maybe I'd be surprised.

FWIW, the First Post now contains a link to the list of HD channels COx has agreements with. Please let me know of any changes and I'll update the list.

Thanks to Dustin for adding the link.

FWIW, the First Post now contains a link to the list of HD channels COx has agreements with. Please let me know of any changes and I'll update the list.

Thanks to Dustin for adding the link.

Link doesn't work for me.

Link doesn't work for me.

doesn't work for me

Yeah, I see the problem. It looks like Dustin just cut and pasted the link and didn't get the complete URL from my PM. AVS truncates long urls for display with the ... and that is what Dustin took, not the underlying url. Anyway, I PM'd him and hopefully he can fix it soon.

The tru2way ocap applications servers will ride on top of the existing platforms and allow for testing and deployment of those applications while still using existing legacy systems in the homes. They have already paid for the licensing of existing STB's and want to have a solution in place before commiting to another license period or having to create more licenses for new STB's. Testing is going on behind the scenes and will not have any impact on your current setup until they officially announce a specific date for STB software changes. More likely, it will roll out to testers and employees first for a few weeks to get feedback, then maybe a few areas at a time to make sure the transition is smooth.

vegggas

veggas any more info you can share on how the conversion to ocap/tru2way is going? It almost the end of 2008 and haven't heard any new news.

Yeah, I see the problem. It looks like Dustin just cut and pasted the link and didn't get the complete URL from my PM. AVS truncates long urls for display with the ... and that is what Dustin took, not the underlying url. Anyway, I PM'd him and hopefully he can fix it soon.
Link is fixed. Thanks, Dustin.

Does anyone with a motorola box hd or hd/dvr get more then 5 days worth of data? Omaha dvr's used to get a full week, but now only 5 day.

So does San Diego, but AFAIK those are local agreements sanctioned by Cox-Corporate. The point of contention has been that Cuban wants the channels offered as a separate tier for a higher price per tier sub and Cox has always wanted all HD to be free of any added charge ever since they did away with charging separately for HD Theater back in the day. I do not know why they allow San diego and Orange County to offer them separately, but I would gladly accept that option. Economically, I don't know the difference between $x.xx/digital sub vs $4.95/tier sub. I'd hate to thinkit was simply another case of bad blood and stubborness.

To Set the record straight, Cox-San Diego DOES NOT carry HDNet/HDNet Movies. Time Warner-San Diego does and has been carrying it for years. TWC-SD has had it since at least 2004 when I was a Cox Sub and we were complaining on our local boards as to why TWC could have it but COX did not. I have since moved to D* and now get HDNet/HDNet Movies plus A LOT more HD channels then COX could provide me :). U-Verse is also available to my area now but don't think COX will add the Mark Cuban Channels just to compete.

Does anyone with a motorola box hd or hd/dvr get more then 5 days worth of data? Omaha dvr's used to get a full week, but now only 5 day.

Just checked and in New England we have ~7 days worth of data (info ends at ~Sunday 10/12 5AM).......

To Set the record straight, Cox-San Diego DOES NOT carry HDNet/HDNet Movies.........
Actually, whomever mentioned it earlier in this thread confused it with Orange County. The list has been updated.

I have a feeling CMT-HD would have a bigger pull than HDNET.

Omaha does not plan to add HDnet or HDnet movies since they charge for the channels and cox omaha wants to offer the hd channels free.

Omaha does not plan to add HDnet or HDnet movies since they charge for the channels and cox omaha wants to offer the hd channels free.
Well, technically all channels charge, but you're right, HBO and others don't actually charge extra for their HD channels, leaving Cox to offer them as "free". HDNet appears to want to be considered a Premium Channel, but they don't have an SD package. This seems a silly point since sooner or later all the SD premium channels will be HD too.

Also, it seems Cuban would rather settle for $4.95-$6.95 per Premium subscriber vs $.75 per digital subscriber or whatever the numbers work out to be. I think we'll see a change though once cable figures out what SDV, etc., will do to bandwidth availability. When HBO is all HD, you will then technically be paying for HD, just like you would if you subscribed to HDNet.

And then, there is the competition factor. I suspect that when FIOS comes to more Cox markets with HDNet, Cox will have to consider changing it's "free" policy. Even now, I think it's BS. Give us the option, I doubt they are retaining many customers with the somewhat bogus free HD stuff. :)

Has any cox area that uses Motorola cable boxes upgraded to the latest guide software Passpot DCT 3.0 and Passport Echo 3.0? what are the differences between 2.7 and 3.0?

6 new HD channels To launch October 15

New HD Networks - coming 10/15!(SAN DIEGO) October 15, 2008 – We are pleased to announce that 6 new HD channels will be available as of October 15th for customers with minimum of Cox Standard Cable and HD service!

More HD channels will be added soon, including Comedy HD and AMC HD. Check back frequently for additional HD channel additions!

Note that Palladia HD, formery on channel 730, will be moving to channel 732 on October 15th.

New Channels
Network Channel Description
MTV HD 730 available 10/15
Spike HD 745 available 10/15
VH1 HD 746 available 10/15
Nickelodeon HD 747 available 10/15
Comedy HD 748 coming soon!
AMC HD 757 coming soon!
CMT HD 761 available 10/15
Planet Green HD 783 available 10/15
Palladia HD 732 moving from channel 730

http://cox.com/sandiego/newsroom/service/2008/20081015-newhd.asp

Thanks for the info, Marcus. In case anyone is following, I've updated the list in the link from the First Post. Pretty soon that list won't be needed as it looks like Cox is on track to get all the HD channels that match their SD channel selection.

it seems that Comedy Central HD and AMC have a national contract with cox, but no contract with Omaha, or SAN DIEGO. I wonder if they want paid just like HDnet and HDnet Movies?

it seems that Comedy Central HD and AMC have a national contract with cox, but no contract with Omaha, or SAN DIEGO. I wonder if they want paid just like HDnet and HDnet Movies?
We don't have them in Phoenix yet either, so I'm not sure that's any indication of what will happen in the future. In fact, we don't have many of the channels listed and all we have so far for this month is just rumors of what is supposed to be coming. Unlike other markets, we don't get much in the way of advance announcements. :(

We have a note in New England Saying there was a delay for Comedy Central HD and it should launch in December...We also had the previously mentiond channels launch here laready (sometime last week I believe).....

Cox in Western Arkansas ran a public notice in the newspaper listing upcoming rate and channel changes. To be added are: Spike HD, MTV HD, VH1 HD, CMT HD, Planet Green HD, Lifetime Movie HD, Hallmark Movie HD and Nickelodeon HD. Dropped will be: Mojo. Effective date is listed as on or after November 18.

Although 8 will be added and 1 will be dropped, I'm guessing it will be a net loss in terms of programs worth watching, at least for me. :(

Thanks for the info, Marcus. In case anyone is following, I've updated the list in the link from the First Post. Pretty soon that list won't be needed as it looks like Cox is on track to get all the HD channels that match their SD channel selection.
I've also added a link to the AVS thread that tracks HD channels for all providers, cable and sat:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14422029#post14422029

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6606078.html?nid=4262

FCC proposing to fine cox for sdv

I hope I'm wrong, but I think you can kiss any new channels goodbye.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think you can kiss any new channels goodbye.

I bet your right unless they have the bandwidth

I bet your right unless they have the bandwidth
Well, they will gain some bandwidth with the EON upgrade, up to 860Mhz anyway until they launch new consumer hardware, but that will not let them meet any stated goal this year AFAIK.

The thing that really gets me is that the FCC knew all of this was going to happen and they've made their rulings over the years anyway. I know there are quite a few people affected by SDV, but the FCC is the reason for cablecard, as far as I'm concerned, and I, the consumer, gets screwed out of new HD channels by this decision. And some folks think the Tivo HD adapter is going to resolve the issue, but it won't. As long as there is a TV or other cablecard device out there without a USB connection for the adapter, they cannot offer any channels via SDV.

There are two options available to Cox. One is to follow TWC's lead (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/17/twc-to-make-tuning-adapters-available-later-this-year/) and offer an adapter. The other is to seek a waiver, as mentioned at the end of the article.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think you can kiss any new channels goodbye.

$20,000 fine is nothing, and they will be fighting the fine so long that when they do have to pay, the tuning resolvers will be out.

I don't think this will stop any plans.

There are two options available to Cox. One is to follow TWC's lead (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/17/twc-to-make-tuning-adapters-available-later-this-year/) and offer an adapter. The other is to seek a waiver, as mentioned at the end of the article.

Cox has already stated that they will be supplying tuning resolvers free of charge to cable card customers once they are available.

Cox has already stated that they will be supplying tuning resolvers free of charge to cable card customers once they are available.
But that assumes the adapter can be connected and work. I'm quite sure there are at least some TVs out there where the adapter will not work. And, if the adapter is the solution, the FCC knows it's coming, so why make a fuss now?

As far as I'm concerned, as soon as cableco's get into a position to compete with sat again, the FCC rears it's ugly head. They simply won't be satisfied until DirecTV, and now FIOS, are the sole providers of TV in this country. They screwed up with cable's quasi-monopoly and now they take every opportunity to stick it to cable making it more and more difficult for those of us who prefer cable to continue putting up with all the BS limiting our channel selection.

And, yes, I know that's a knee-jerk emotional response to something that will in all probability get worked out, but it's just so unnecessary. And, yes, I do lay a lot of blame on cableco's for acting irresponsibly all these years, but enough is enough.

I think the primary reason the FCC came down on Cox and TMC was that they moved to SDV before the adapters were available. By doing so Cox and TMC deprived their CableCARD customers of access to channels that were formerly available to them and gave themselves an even bigger competitive advantage over CableCARD device purveyors than they already had. That's why the FCC's order included a provision for refunds to CableCARD users commensurate with the value of the service those customers had lost and proposed fines for Cox and TMC in the bargain.

gwsat,

I'm sure that's true, but I still don't see the point. The alternative is no new HD channels for anyone and who's interest does that serve? It would be different if adapters were not in the pipeline and SDV was going to deprive subs of channels permanently. Do I now get to file a complaint because Cox here rolls out a channel in the East Valley several weeks/months before they roll it out in the West Valley?

IMHO, they need to be given some time to work out SDV issues and that should be allowed before or after the adapters are available. And I still don't see anyone mentioning what will happen because AFAIK the adapter will not work with every cablecard device out there. I suppose the workaround there is to give those subs free STBs.

I'm also still a little miffed because as near as I can see this is all because Tivo chose not to include the requisite hardware in the Tivo HD. Am I wrong in believing that the 8300HDC (and other SA cablecard units) can tune SDV channels? If I am, then I'll quit complaining about Tivo and get on the bandwagon against Cox/TWC. :)

Cox states on their website that all analog sets hooked up to cable will still be able to pick up some channels for up to 3 years. Does anyone know what they plan to do after 3 years? Will they require everyone to have a cable box for each analog set? Also, does anyone know if they will start offering some regular cable channels over QAM?

Cox states on their website that all analog sets hooked up to cable will still be able to pick up some channels for up to 3 years. Does anyone know what they plan to do after 3 years? Will they require everyone to have a cable box for each analog set? Also, does anyone know if they will start offering some regular cable channels over QAM?
They are locked into 2012 and then the FCC will revisit the issue. By then enough subs may have STBs, new TVs, etc., to allow analog to be shutoff completely and let cableco's finally recover all that wasted bandwidth. They can technically go all-digital today by giving all subs an STB, but that still appears to be an expensive propositions with the number of subs, like me, who still rely on analog for bedroom TVs, etc.

DAZ -- I hear you and agree that the FCC should not limit adding NEW HD channels that TMC, at least, shifted a number of CURRENT HD channels to SDV. Further, I don't think the FCC said that no new SDV channels should be added. I thought the thrust of its order was that TMC and Cox should give refunds to its CableCARD customers in an amount equal to the value of the services the customers lost as a result of shifting current HD channels to SDV. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

DAZ -- I hear you and agree that the FCC should not limit adding NEW HD channels that TMC, at least, shifted a number of CURRENT HD channels to SDV. Further, I don't think the FCC said that no new SDV channels should be added. I thought the thrust of its order was that TMC and Cox should give refunds to its CableCARD customers in an amount equal to the value of the services the customers lost as a result of shifting current HD channels to SDV. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

I never heard TMC had a cable company, but TWC does.:D

DAZ -- I hear you and agree that the FCC should not limit adding NEW HD channels that TMC, at least, shifted a number of CURRENT HD channels to SDV. Further, I don't think the FCC said that no new SDV channels should be added. I thought the thrust of its order was that TMC and Cox should give refunds to its CableCARD customers in an amount equal to the value of the services the customers lost as a result of shifting current HD channels to SDV. I really don't see anything wrong with that.
I guess I can agree with that assessment, if that is what the ruling means. Like I said, it was probably just a knee-jerk emotional reaction on my part. All I know is that Cox here is moving ahead and that's all I really care about. :)

But that assumes the adapter can be connected and work. I'm quite sure there are at least some TVs out there where the adapter will not work. And, if the adapter is the solution, the FCC knows it's coming, so why make a fuss now?

As far as I'm concerned, as soon as cableco's get into a position to compete with sat again, the FCC rears it's ugly head. They simply won't be satisfied until DirecTV, and now FIOS, are the sole providers of TV in this country. They screwed up with cable's quasi-monopoly and now they take every opportunity to stick it to cable making it more and more difficult for those of us who prefer cable to continue putting up with all the BS limiting our channel selection.

And, yes, I know that's a knee-jerk emotional response to something that will in all probability get worked out, but it's just so unnecessary. And, yes, I do lay a lot of blame on cableco's for acting irresponsibly all these years, but enough is enough.

The reason is simple: prices are universally lower for television service when cable faces serious competition from satellite and telcos. This is one of many examples where cable has used new technology to raise the cost of its service (by denying consumers cable card access).

If you think cable has it rough, you should look into some of the stuff that AT&T had to deal with back when it was a monopoly. (And by all measures, the market for television service is still an outright monopoly even with competition from satellite and telcos.)

The reason is simple: prices are universally lower for television service when cable faces serious competition from satellite and telcos. This is one of many examples where cable has used new technology to raise the cost of its service (by denying consumers cable card access).
Normally, I would agree with you except that I still believe the entire TV market is based on what we will pay as opposed to any cost to produce/deliver it. While various TV packages are priced differently, prices are generally pretty much the same overall, especially when you consider internet/phone services. Granted, cable (and sat) have to keep prices competitive, so that tends to keep prices lower than if there was just one provider, but I didn't think cable prices were near as far out of line back in the day than they are today with all the competition. Maybe it's just a psychological thing on my part because I suspect that if I did an inflation test, cable/sat is cheaper today than it was back then. I just think TV costs should be a lot lower from all providers, including cable.

I don't understand the last statement regarding cablecard access.

I guess I can agree with that assessment, if that is what the ruling means. Like I said, it was probably just a knee-jerk emotional reaction on my part. All I know is that Cox here is moving ahead and that's all I really care about. :)
Although I fat-fisted the acronym for Time Warner in my original post and, what else is new?, got an acronym flame as a result, I figured that you would understand me. All of this reminds me that acronym flames are the last refuge of scoundrels. :)

There was some talk about the FCC order in the TiVo threads and somebody posted a link to the actual order, which I read. I am too lazy to dig it out but it shouldn't be hard to find for anybody who is interested in reading the document itself

There was some talk about the FCC order in the TiVo threads and somebody posted a link to the actual order, which I read. I am too lazy to dig it out but it shouldn't be hard to find for anybody who is interested in reading the document itself
Thanks you. I did find it and read most of it. As written, I have to agree with it. Cox did move previously available channels to SDV and that seems to violate the rules. However, I remain skeptical that this ruling will allow new channels to be offered via SDV without another series of complaints and a further ruling/fines against Cox, et al. There is a lot of ambigous language in the ruling that leads me to believe that if they receive a complaint about new channels, they will once again rule against Cox. Here is one such paragraph:

The Commission recognized that devices made pursuant to the standard adopted in the Plug and Play Order lacked upstream or bi-directional capabilities and therefore could not receive certain programming or services, but that recognition did not extend to services that consumers traditionally experienced as one-way services or programming that was part of the package for which they were already paying.

I was also frustrated by the paragraph that said Cox could have requested a waiver, but chose not to. To me, this smacked of pay-back for not sucking up and requesting such a waiver. There was no indication such a waiver would have been entertained, much less granted. :)

DAZ -- I agree that whether the order gives TWC and Cox permission to new HD channels via SDV is not entirely clear. I hope it does, though. As noted earlier, my defense of the order was limited to its having required TWC and Cox to make restitution to CableCARD customers. I also hope that the new two-way add on devices to allow CableCARD equipped devices are (1) rolled out quickly and (2) work. If that happens, then the Great SDV Debate will probably be moot.

gwsat, I keep looking at the word "traditional" and get concerned. I don't know of anything we have today that doesn't fit the traditional category. Granted, new channels are "new", but traditionally they have been available to all when added to the lineup. It seems to me those fit the FCC rule against keeping them from cablecard users via SDV. I agree that this specific ruling doesn't preclude them, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to fall. :)

I also wonder if there aren't cablecard devices out there that the adapter won't help. Maybe that's a needless concern though and all devices have the requisite USB port.

There is no doubt SDV will be a moot point sooner or later. I'm really surprised the adapters aren't already available.

My JVC has a working CC and NO USB!

Cox in middle georgia has apparently caught a hint, since i've been pestering them about new HD. the newest bill has listed they are adding 6 HD channels (usa, scifi, bravo, cnbc, planet green, and science channel) and losing MOJO all on Nov 19. The last time they had anything on the bill was when Cox added Lifetime and 2 months later it was on the bill that it was added.

The last time they had anything on the bill was when Cox added Lifetime and 2 months later it was on the bill that it was added.

I can't understand why Cox does such a horrible job of announcing new channels. I know about them in advance because of the Internet and a friend at Cox but without that you either stumble across them or read it in your bill a month or two after the fact. If I were them I would want to make sure the whole world knew I was adding HD content.

I can't understand why Cox does such a horrible job of announcing new channels. I know about them in advance because of the Internet and a friend at Cox but without that you either stumble across them or read it in your bill a month or two after the fact. If I were them I would want to make sure the whole world knew I was adding HD content.
I don't even look at my bill, so the only way I know is this and our local forum. :)

I can't understand why Cox does such a horrible job of announcing new channels. I know about them in advance because of the Internet and a friend at Cox but without that you either stumble across them or read it in your bill a month or two after the fact. If I were them I would want to make sure the whole world knew I was adding HD content.

Well, after perusing the channels Cox (Fairfax) just added, I'm not sure they should be touting them. Most of them don't broadcast in HD a lot of the time and their programming is mediocre.

Still, I agree with you in this regard: Cox needs to give us more than vague promises about "80 channels" or whatnot if it wants to compete with FIOS and the satellite companies.

Well, after perusing the channels Cox (Fairfax) just added, I'm not sure they should be touting them. Most of them don't broadcast in HD a lot of the time and their programming is mediocre.

Still, I agree with you in this regard: Cox needs to give us more than vague promises about "80 channels" or whatnot if it wants to compete with FIOS and the satellite companies.

Heck 80???LOL FIOS currently has ~102 HD in New England, If COx bosted to 80, Id almost be happy ;).......

BTW COx has always been secritive about future channel rollouts, I think this is most likely to avoid biting off too much when agreements are not cemented yet.....AMC HD is one of those channels announced here twice, but they still havent finialized the agreement yet.....I wouldnt hold your breath thought about them being more open, they have always and seem will always do business like this...:(

Heck 80???LOL FIOS currently has ~102 HD in New England, If COx bosted to 80, Id almost be happy ;).......

BTW COx has always been secritive about future channel rollouts, I think this is most likely to avoid biting off too much when agreements are not cemented yet.....AMC HD is one of those channels announced here twice, but they still havent finialized the agreement yet.....I wouldnt hold your breath thought about them being more open, they have always and seem will always do business like this...:(

Omaha was promised AMCHD in July and it still hasn't launched no contract even though it listed on the channel lineup on the cox/omaha page. We were also supposed to get Comedy Central HD, but no contract yet.

Omaha was promised AMCHD in July and it still hasn't launched no contract even though it listed on the channel lineup on the cox/omaha page. We were also supposed to get Comedy Central HD, but no contract yet.

As far as Comedy Central HD goes, according to "Amy" CC had some issues and delayed the launch until at least December of this year...They are having contract "issues" from what she says with AMC......

Just to give everyone some status updates:
Cox wants to get rid of SARA during 2008 and move to OCAP/tru2-way software in most markets by the end of the year. They want three guide options covering SD, HD, and DVR platforms that work across both Motorola and SA (Cisco) based headends.
Standard SD guides will be from the Gemstar/passport based interface.
Enhabced HD guides will be in 16x9 HD format and based on the NDS software and will only be in a widescreen format for HD STB's and HD DVR's.
The Tivo software will be another upgrade option for DVR users who want that interface instead of the other options.
Cox is rolling out a national footprint of about 50-60 national HD channels that are originating from two or more regions. Any new national channels are part of this rollout and part of their new structure. It is in their plan to offer the same channels across the nation to all their subscribers that have had their local area upgraded to handle the new streams. As the local areas are upgraded and can handle in increase in HD traffic, they can pick a few channels to add. Again, this is a continous work in progress and each area will be unique as to how many and which channels to display as they are working out the details.

vegggas
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/08/cox_communications_getting_into_the_wireless_business-2.html#comments

EugeniaPolar bear
Posted 12:36 PM 20/8/08
First of all I work for Cox in Omaha, the svc is fine, the upgrades are going on schedule that is why we are able to provide you guys with the faster net speeds and more HD channels. What you don't understand is that even though dish claims to have 1000 hd channels not all of them show hd content 24/7. Cox does not want to mislead our customers and provide a channel, that won't guarantee them all hd all the time. More speed increases are coming we will be the fastest net provider in Omaha, along with more HD channels, but we are stuck on how much to charge the customer. We offer all of our HD channels for free and some providers want to charge us for their hd content. We do not want to pass the buck to our customers so eat as much of he charges as we can, then we evaluate how much we want to pass on to you. You should quit being so ungrateful because we are at the forefront of Cox. There are other systems that are way behind us. Cell phones are coming and they will allow the control and live streaming on to them, we are offering a service like T-Mobile where, the wifi does not count towards cell minutes. Be patient the upgrades are 4 months from being done and, when they finish we will see thu2way, and SDV, and speed cresting 50mb upload. We just have to work out prices.

EugeniaPolar bear
It looks like Omaha will not see Tru2way until 2009

ajwees41,

Sounds like they are going to miss the end of the year by a couple of months, but I don't know that what vegggas said earlier was an official projection anyway. I think we are also on track to miss the end of the year for the "entire" Valley, but I believe some areas will be done before then and will get new channels before the rest of us. I don't know if Omaha is progressing in the same way or not. It's frustrating because I am usually in one of the last areas. :(

Well they just added like seven HD channels here in Fairfax VA and I don't think a frame of real HDTV has shown up yet on the screen! What is this joke? Where is HDNET - at least they GUARANTEE real HD programming:mad:

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/08/cox_communications_getting_into_the_wireless_business-2.html#comments

EugeniaPolar bear
Posted 12:36 PM 20/8/08
First of all I work for Cox in Omaha, the svc is fine, the upgrades are going on schedule that is why we are able to provide you guys with the faster net speeds and more HD channels. What you don't understand is that even though dish claims to have 1000 hd channels not all of them show hd content 24/7. Cox does not want to mislead our customers and provide a channel, that won't guarantee them all hd all the time. More speed increases are coming we will be the fastest net provider in Omaha, along with more HD channels, but we are stuck on how much to charge the customer. We offer all of our HD channels for free and some providers want to charge us for their hd content. We do not want to pass the buck to our customers so eat as much of he charges as we can, then we evaluate how much we want to pass on to you. You should quit being so ungrateful because we are at the forefront of Cox. There are other systems that are way behind us. Cell phones are coming and they will allow the control and live streaming on to them, we are offering a service like T-Mobile where, the wifi does not count towards cell minutes. Be patient the upgrades are 4 months from being done and, when they finish we will see thu2way, and SDV, and speed cresting 50mb upload. We just have to work out prices.

EugeniaPolar bear
It looks like Omaha will not see Tru2way until 2009
I appreciate the inside info. Is HDNET coming to COX markets soon??
I have to say I'm underwhelmed by recent seven or so supposedley HD channels added in Fairfax VA. They don't appear to be transmitting any HD content!? I believe HDNET guarantees all HD programming, don't they??

I appreciate the inside info. Is HDNET coming to COX markets soon??
I have to say I'm underwhelmed by recent seven or so supposedley HD channels added in Fairfax VA. They don't appear to be transmitting any HD content!? I believe HDNET guarantees all HD programming, don't they??

some cox areas have it, but I don't see Omaha adding it anytime soon since they don't actually charge for HD as a seperate tier.

ajwees41,

Sounds like they are going to miss the end of the year by a couple of months, but I don't know that what vegggas said earlier was an official projection anyway. I think we are also on track to miss the end of the year for the "entire" Valley, but I believe some areas will be done before then and will get new channels before the rest of us. I don't know if Omaha is progressing in the same way or not. It's frustrating because I am usually in one of the last areas. :(

I just hope we atleast get an upgrade to the latest box software before then.

Cox Kicks Up Bandwidth

Technology SVP Rolls Believes Industry's On Cusp Of Solving Problem

By Todd Spangler -- Multichannel News, 10/25/2008 6:45:00 AM

Cox Communications, like other privately held MSOs, has been aggressive in upgrading its existing systems to 1-Gigahertz operation. Basically, it doesn’t have to worry about spooking Wall Street with its capital-spending budgets. And that additional space provides valuable real estate for new services, including higher-speed broadband based on DOCSIS 3.0 technology. Jay Rolls, Cox’s senior vice president of technology, said he believes cable is on the cusp of solving the “bandwidth problem” for at least the next 10 years. He recently spoke with Multichannel News technology editor Todd Spangler.



MCN: Cox has upgraded many of its systems to 1 GHz. How broadly has that been deployed?
Jay Rolls: It’s pretty widely deployed. It’s the majority of our markets. We’re well along the way. We’re not going to be finished next week, but we’re well past the halfway point.

Obviously, there’s a sheer level of logistics and contracts and everything it takes to do a rebuild like that. And then there’s another element that has to do with testing your coax network just to make sure it can pass 1 GHz. There’s just a little bit of cable replacement you need to do — you have to go through and find weak spots. It’s percentage points, not 20% or 30%.

MCN: Does moving to 1 GHz reduce the pressure to retire analog channels?
JR: Absolutely. Originally, none of our [consumer-premises equipment] could tune to 1 GHz. Now we have equipment from our vendors to do that.

We are just getting close to the point where we need to put things above 870 [MHz]. DOCSIS 3.0 is kind of the poster child for placing above 870. It requires new CPE anyway, so you have this new capability you can introduce without impacting any of your existing services.

MCN: Are DOCSIS 3.0 services going to appeal primarily to business customers or high-end consumers?
JR: I think the answer is both. Obviously, [deployment] becomes driven by business requirements, not technology. At what point and in what markets do you feel like DOCSIS 2.0 runs out of steam? That provides the answer for when I think I need to go to 3.0. There’s no nice clean answer for you about when, where, how — we have lots of demand across all our markets. There are multiple dynamics that will dictate when we go to 3.0 in a certain place. You’ll see it roll out the next few years.

MCN: What’s after DOCSIS 3.0? What’s the next big area of technology development for cable? JR: We’re already seeing a shift toward products and services in the industry, and away from “how do we get the bits down the wire.” I think the “what’s next” is more of a product focus.

You could argue that if your node sizes are a reasonable size, and you’re doing switched digital video and DOCSIS 3.0, and CPE is moving toward eight tuners — that’s gobs of bandwidth — you could argue that you’ve largely solved the bandwidth problem for at least a good 10 years. You’re going to focus on what you’re delivering, instead of how you’re delivering it.

MCN: How significant is the Oct. 6 ruling in Cox’s favor in the patent-infringement lawsuit filed by Verizon Communications?
JR: I think it was pretty much of a key outcome for the cable industry, for sure. Largely, what Verizon was trying to do was go after PacketCable. Not only were we found to not have infringed, but we invalidated two patents — the same two patents that were successfully litigated against Vonage for. One of the learning experiences is that cable operators are going to have to get a little more savvy about intellectual property. My observation is that as an industry, we’re not doing a very good job of capturing and protecting the inventions we’re coming up with.

MCN: How far along is Cox’s backbone buildout, which will cover 13,000 route miles of fiber? What will that allow you to do that you couldn’t do previously?
JR: If all goes well, we’ll be largely done by the end of the year. It does a couple of things: It gives us owner economics on transport, which are very advantageous — it’s owning versus renting. Trust me, for our scale the math works.

The other thing you get is, you get operational improvements on just-in-time bandwidth growth. Previously, when we needed more bandwidth we would have to lease more circuits and work with a third party. Now I just stick line cards into optoelectronics and turn on new wavelengths. You massively simplify it from a time, labor and third-party dependency standpoint.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6608640.html

I really wish Cox in Cleveland would pick some more HD channels up. They haven't picked up ANYTHING since July and that was just MSNBC. I see all these other area's getting HD channels, but no cleveland, whats up w/ that!

Also, why doesn't cox let anyone know when they're adding channels. I can never see if and when we are getting channels untill the day they actually arive!

Sorry, thats my rant :D

I really wish Cox in Cleveland would pick some more HD channels up. They haven't picked up ANYTHING since July and that was just MSNBC. I see all these other area's getting HD channels, but no cleveland, whats up w/ that!

Also, why doesn't cox let anyone know when they're adding channels. I can never see if and when we are getting channels untill the day they actually arive!

Sorry, thats my rant :D

it has to do with the contracts they sign according to an Omaha csr.

Well they just added like seven HD channels here in Fairfax VA and I don't think a frame of real HDTV has shown up yet on the screen! What is this joke? Where is HDNET - at least they GUARANTEE real HD programming:mad:

That is calumny! I saw several frames of real HDTV on Spike HD's reruns of CSI. :D

Seriously, these are the lamest, most pathetic excuses for HD channels I've ever seen -- they make early TBS HD look like Discovery HD Theater.

Some Cox hack said

If all goes well, we’ll be largely done by the end of the year. It does a couple of things: It gives us owner economics on transport, which are very advantageous — it’s owning versus renting. Trust me, for our scale the math works.

What he's not saying is whether all this "infrastructure" and whatnot actually translates to more HD channels with real HDTV programming -- because he can't. Cox Fairfax has SDV -- it even got fined for implementing it too soon or the wrong way, whatever -- and we got bupkes.

I haven't been this dissatisfied with a service in a long time. What will Wall Street think when Cox's customers leave them for FIOS?

When cox released SDV here in July they sent letters out listing 80 SD channels which would require a STB to be receive by CC equipped devices. The last deadline was 10/12. I don't know how many if any of the channels that I did not subscribed to disappeared but none of the ones I received went away. About 25 were Latino and 30 were sports subscriptions. By doing that they may have met the letter of the FCC law to avoid the fines their Fairfax property got. I have a CC equipped TV so there is no tuning adapter in the works for any of us.

I have a CC equipped TV so there is no tuning adapter in the works for any of us.
Are you saying your TV does not have a USB port anywhere?

Having a USB port is no guarantee of anything. Of the TVs that have them, most only have the capability to use them for firmware updates, or perhaps showing pictures/playing music from a thumbdrive. Any use of a tuning adapter would require new firmware, and since most TVs with CableCard slots are older, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for updates from the manufacturers.

Having a USB port is no guarantee of anything.
That's rather obvious to me, but I'd still like to know. I've been saying for some time that there are devices, mostly TVs, that don't have USB ports or won't be able to use them for the tuning adapter. I'm curious because I don't think the FCC is done ruling against cable over SDV or anything else they might try to bring more HD channels to their systems, especially if it doesn't work with Tivo.

on one of the post's above it mentiond that CELL phones are comming... how is that going to work?? is it going to run off 802.16??

From what I have seen it is 3g & CDMA.

on one of the post's above it mentiond that CELL phones are comming... how is that going to work?? is it going to run off 802.16??

From what I have seen it is 3g & CDMA.
Does that mean Cox will be partnering with a cell provider or something?

Does that mean Cox will be partnering with a cell provider or something?

It's all Cox. They started with the Sprint partnership to test the water & then advanced with the FCC auction folloing that. I think there are some good articles out there. Google Cox & Wireless. You should find tons of info.

Cable operator Cox to launch cellphone service

NEW YORK — Cox Communications (CCI) plans to rock the wireless phone business Monday by unveiling plans to launch cellphone service in the second half of 2009 that ultimately will make the No. 3 cable operator a rival of AT&T, (T) Sprint Nextel (S) and Verizon. (VZ)

"We've spent $500 million buying wireless capacity in our markets," President Pat Esser says. "Now, we're going to turn it on."

It's the most ambitious effort yet by a cable operator to bundle wireless phones with TV, Internet and land-line phone services. Operators have long seen cellphones as an important weapon to compete with AT&T and Verizon, which are rolling out TV services that compete with cable's core video business.

Cable operators' efforts to forge alliances with Sprint stumbled over disagreements about marketing and service plans.

Cox is betting that it can lure consumers with one-stop shopping and a lot of hand-holding for a cellphone service that neatly meshes with its other products.

For example, subscribers will be able to use the phones to program home DVRs. They'll also be able to access e-mail and voice mail that they receive at home.

"The network address book has been around for a long time, but it hasn't gotten beyond sophisticated users who take the time and effort to configure it," says Stephen Bye, Cox vice president of wireless.

He says all Cox phones will include a network address book that automatically synchronizes with home PCs.

Cox also says that subscribers will be able to watch TV shows, and possibly full-time channels, on their handsets. The company wouldn't say what video will be available, how much consumers will pay for cellphone service, which markets will get it first, or how long it will take before it's available in all its territories.

Cox has 6.2 million residential and business customers scattered through 15 states, with major markets including San Diego, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Phoenix and Oklahoma City.

Esser won't say how much Cox will spend to enter the wireless phone business, but notes that it likely will be at least as much as it spent to offer digital TV, broadband and wire-line phones.

"We've done a ton of research, and we're confident that it will get the kind of market share that will produce a good return for Cox," he says.

One of his first tasks is to negotiate deals with hand-set manufacturers. Phones initially will handle fast transmissions through Cox's and Sprint's 3G networks.

Cox, which expects to eventually manage all aspects of its service, also will test faster 4G technologies that use the international Long Term Evolution (LTE) standard.

"We were looking for a global standard that we could draft behind and get a lot of innovation to the market as quickly as possible," Esser says.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/telecom/2008-10-26-cox-communications-wireless-cellphone_N.htm

how is the 4g going to work via 802.16??? i know that something big and up and comming in the future.

where did the 802.16 come from?

where did the 802.16 come from?

802.16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.16) also refered to as WiMAX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiMAX). wireless broadband for MAN's. I assumed that the cable wireless broadband was done via wimax for a wider range. somewhere in the above text it was mentiond that there would be free calling via the internet similar to Tmob (free calling via wifi 802.11)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11). As cable co's bid for frequency space i assumed it was to launch a wimax based internet service.

802.16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.16) also refered to as WiMAX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiMAX). wireless broadband for MAN's. I assumed that the cable wireless broadband was done via wimax for a wider range. somewhere in the above text it was mentiond that there would be free calling via the internet similar to Tmob (free calling via wifi 802.11)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11). As cable co's bid for frequency space i assumed it was to launch a wimax based internet service.

I missed where it was mentioned above but there are no immediate intentions to move to that. A clearer plan is 1Ghz network, SDV & FTTH. All of these are in progress right now.

here is the quote where i assumed internet based calling.. and 802.16

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/08/cox_communications_getting_into_the_wireless_business-2.html#comments

EugeniaPolar bear
Posted 12:36 PM 20/8/08
First of all I work for Cox in Omaha, ...
we are offering a service like T-Mobile where, the wifi does not count towards cell minutes. ...

Are you saying your TV does not have a USB port anywhere?

Correct, it does have firewire i.Link I/O connections. Oh well!

Correct, it does have firewire i.Link I/O connections. Oh well!
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. :)

how is the 4g going to work via 802.16??? i know that something big and up and comming in the future.

Cox is not going to use Wimax they are going straight CDMA (EVDO) and then moving on to LTE.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/27/cox_and_wireless/

Apparently Sprint is the only major carrier committed to Wimax for now.

When cox released SDV here in July they sent letters out listing 80 SD channels which would require a STB to be receive by CC equipped devices. The last deadline was 10/12. I don't know how many if any of the channels that I did not subscribed to disappeared but none of the ones I received went away. About 25 were Latino and 30 were sports subscriptions. By doing that they may have met the letter of the FCC law to avoid the fines their Fairfax property got. I have a CC equipped TV so there is no tuning adapter in the works for any of us.

What a difference a day makes. Today all 80 channels are gone (my CC was updated to delete them and when I try to view any of those channels my set shows "no channel"). It includes two channels which are clear QAM ( I still receive them on my non CC set) CSPAN2 and CSPAN3. Not a big deal to me since the few I lost were channels which I seldom watched. None of the HD channels changed and none were added. I wonder if the FCC will contact Cox Phoenix. I haven't noticed a change in the clear QAM channels.

Cox is not going to use Wimax they are going straight CDMA (EVDO) and then moving on to LTE.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/27/cox_and_wireless/

Apparently Sprint is the only major carrier committed to Wimax for now.

it's also supposed to let the cox dvr users program over the phone

What a difference a day makes. Today all 80 channels are gone (my CC was updated to delete them and when I try to view any of those channels my set shows "no channel"). It includes two channels which are clear QAM ( I still receive them on my non CC set) CSPAN2 and CSPAN3. Not a big deal to me since the few I lost were channels which I seldom watched. None of the HD channels changed and none were added. I wonder if the FCC will contact Cox Phoenix. I haven't noticed a change in the clear QAM channels.

Well SDV is a pain. Mitsubishi CC sets have the USB port needed for the TA. It's a free add on but Mitsu would have to make a firmware update for it.

Well Cox in Cleveland has finnally added the CW in HD now. Odd that its only 1 channel they are adding now. Nonetheless, its still a new HD channel.

Hello, this is what I was told by a Cox rep our next HD channels will be. Notice the date when the channels should hit. So much for the 80 HD channels by the end of 2008.

We are looking at adding the following channels by March 29, 2009.
Please be aware that this is only an estimate and we cannot guarantee
that these channels will be available by that date.

Travel HD (748)
Spike HD (767)
Bravo HD (760)
NFL HD (766)
* Must have Sports & Info Tier
MTV HD (717)
SciFi HD (750)
HGTV HD (741)
CNN HD (736)
Planet Green HD (764)
TLC HD (742)
Versus HD (769)

Please reply to this message if we can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

"To Protect the Innocent"
E-Care Specialist
Cox Communications - Arizona

interesting. thank you

Cox is excited to add five new HD channels to our digital lineup effective December 16, 2008:



List linked in First Post updated. Thanks.

Cox in Western Arkansas ran a public notice in the newspaper listing upcoming rate and channel changes. To be added are: Spike HD, MTV HD, VH1 HD, CMT HD, Planet Green HD, Lifetime Movie HD, Hallmark Movie HD and Nickelodeon HD. Dropped will be: Mojo. Effective date is listed as on or after November 18.

Although 8 will be added and 1 will be dropped, I'm guessing it will be a net loss in terms of programs worth watching, at least for me. :(

New HD lineup in Northwest Arkansas starting Nov 18 (Announced in Cox website). Cox is pulling out a bunch of SD channels (HBO, Max and Showtime networks' West channels) to (I guess) make way for the new HD channels .

*Additions in green
**Deletion in red

Channel # Channel
692* Spike HD
693* MTV HD
694* VH1 HD
695* CMT HD
696* Planet Green HD
697 * LMN HD
698* Hallmark HD
699* Nicklodeon HD
700 KAFT/PBS HD
707 KHOG/ABC Fayetteville HD
708 KFTA/Fox Fayetteville HD
710 KFSM/CBS Fort Smith/Fayetteville HD
714 Lifetime HD
715 KNWA/NBC Fayetteville HD
716* SciFi HD
717* Bravo HD
718 USA HD
719 CNBC HD+
720 KTUL/ABC Tulsa HD
721 CNN HD
722 TBS HD
723 TLC HD
724 Discovery HD
726 NFL HD
727 HGTV HD
728 Food HD
729 History HD
730 A&E HD
731 TNT HD
732 ESPN HD
733 ESPN 2 HD
734 HD Theater
735 Universal HD
736** Mojo HD
737 NGC HD
738 Travel HD
739 Palladia
740 HBO HD
741 Cinemax HD
742 Showtime HD
744 Starz HD
745 Animal Planet HD
746 Science HD
747 Versus/Golf HD

So on Nov 18th is Mojo going off the air nationwide or is Cox terminating its contract? I still see "programs" listed on the guide (19th and beyond)?

In VA BEACH COX already dropped mojo:eek:

So on Nov 18th is Mojo going off the air nationwide or is Cox terminating its contract? I still see "programs" listed on the guide (19th and beyond)?
I believe the official date is the end of the year, but it is being dropped early in some markets as they add other channels.

I hear Some markets are keeping mojo as On-:confused:demand Ch

I hear Some markets are keeping mojo as On-:confused:demand ChHere in the San Diego market they removed Mojo in October, but it's still on On Demand.

I hear Some markets are keeping mojo as On-:confused:demand Ch
They are, but there is no word on how long that will be. I would think it means there may not be any more new stuff, but one never knows.

I hear Some markets are keeping mojo as On-:confused:demand Ch

Mojo is being removed from every cable operator nationwide. Some at different times than others. The reason is that the cable companies created Mojo as a joint venture at a time where there were very few HD channels available. Now that there are many HD choices to choose from Mojo no longer fills a void, but instead is overshadowed. I believe it is no longer profitable for cable companies to keep Mojo alive so they have decided to axe the channel completely. If they are keeping it On Demand it probably won't be for much longer. However, maybe they will extend it since Mojo owns (owned?) the syndication rights for Heroes in HD as well as a few other shows. Perhaps Mojo will find a new home On Demand, but I have yet to hear any announcement.

I guess we are lucky in New England we have all the above listed HD channels ;)....I can say that after the long wait AMC HD was a very nice addition. Even though they chow commercials most of the movies are top notch.

I am really hoping that Cox decides to take the HD Nets nationwide ;)...These are two channels often asked for, but never commented on. Does anyone know how the sub rate in the San Deigo (or the area where it is live) is? Wondering if poor sub rates is what is keeping this from spreading further.

I am so tired of hearing cableco's say they want to keep rates under control or not wanting to charge extra for HD as reasons for not adding HDNet. Offering HDNet as an added cost option would upset no one that I know of and having the option would please a lot of subs. Granted, it would take some scarce bandwidth, but if Orange County can do it, why not the rest of Cox? Especially once the EON/SDV upgrades are complete?

I am so tired of hearing cableco's say they want to keep rates under control or not wanting to charge extra for HD as reasons for not adding HDNet. Offering HDNet as an added cost option would upset no one that I know of and having the option would please a lot of subs. Granted, it would take some scarce bandwidth, but if Orange County can do it, why not the rest of Cox? Especially once the EON/SDV upgrades are complete?

Dave omaha has no plans to charge for HD, so i don't think we will ever see theHDnet's. This might change if they can get the local aba affliate to quit saying they charge for HD so cox should pay them lots of money to carry a signal people who don't have cable get for free.

On Wednesday, Cox in Topeka Kansas added

Spike HD
MTV HD
VH1 HD
CMT HD
Planet Green HD
Lifetime Movie Network HD
Hallmark Movie Channel HD
Nickelodeon HD

And they removed MoJo

On Wednesday, Cox in Topeka Kansas added

Spike HD
MTV HD
VH1 HD
CMT HD
Planet Green HD
Lifetime Movie Network HD
Hallmark Movie Channel HD
Nickelodeon HD

And they removed MoJo

And, of the 8 channels, only 3 are actually HD. From what I can tell, all but PGHD, LMNHD, and HMCHD are simply digital 4:3 versions of their analog channel with no true HD. Really disappointed that these were added when other true HD channels are out there. We need to either push Cox to bring true HD channels to their HD tiers, or to contact the cable nets directly and demand that they stop calling digital 4:3 channels HD channels.

And, of the 8 channels, only 3 are actually HD. From what I can tell, all but PGHD, LMNHD, and HMCHD are simply digital 4:3 versions of their analog channel with no true HD. Really disappointed that these were added when other true HD channels are out there. We need to either push Cox to bring true HD channels to their HD tiers, or to contact the cable nets directly and demand that they stop calling digital 4:3 channels HD channels.

Most of them have very few HD programming as of yet. But I would advise to contact the content provider. We are a service provider being that we just pump the signal they send us.

I believe Spike airs CSI and wrestling in HD. MTV airs their award shows in HD, and a few episodes of one of the reality shows were done in HD. Nick has shown some of the newer cartoons in HD. As far as I know, CMT and VH1 have never aired anything in HD. There just isn't a whole lot of HD programming out there that these networks show yet. Classic catch 22, no reason to produce HD programming if there's nowhere to show it, and no reason to create somewhere to show it there's nothing to show. It's still better to have the channel available for HD when there is something worth watching than to have to wait months and months for it to be added once they do start showing something worth watching.

Perhaps Spike will carry the James Bond marathon in HD this year. That alone would make the channel worth having IMO.

Dave omaha has no plans to charge for HD, so i don't think we will ever see theHDnet's. This might change if they can get the local aba affliate to quit saying they charge for HD so cox should pay them lots of money to carry a signal people who don't have cable get for free.
Same here and that seems to be the party line everywhere but Orange County. However, I think that could change once bandwidth becomes available. I don't think having one "pay" option would hurt their advertising all that much. IMHO it's really no worse than needing HBO in order to get HBO HD. The only difference is HD Net doesn't have an analog/SD counterpart. It might solve some carriage problems if they did. :)

We are a service provider being that we just pump the signal they send us.
I might agree with that if all Cox did was pass on the cost of these channels and not add in their own (high?) profit margin. If Cox told me that they charged me $10/mo to provide cable and then simply passed on the costs of individual channels, like MSNBC for $.15/mo, I'd go to the content provider with my complaints/requests. However, since Cox pays them a relatively small portion of what I pay Cox, I believe Cox should have a big hand in pressuring them to add HD content so that Cox can then feel justified in adding the channel.

IMHO, that's part of why I pay Cox as much as I (grudgingly) do. Cox is the one not adding channels based on some bogus percent of programming that is HD. I listened to that argument when Cox was fighting with NBC-12 here in Phoenix. I went along with it because, at the time, it seemed reasonable. However, it no longer does. I pay more for less and I'm no longer satisfied.

Also, if a channel has only one program that I want in HD, I want the HD channel, period. I also want a DVR that is in step with what everyone else offers and I'm tired of waiting for empty promises. I've been at this for over 6 years now and have supported Cox down the line, but that support will come to an end if something doesn't happen once EON is complete. And that doesn't mean adding 8-10 channels. That means adding every one that is available to mirror their original analog lineup, not their current watered down lineup.

I've seen the promise of the Gemstar/TV Guide Passport IPG and now the NDS stuff. I've heard the promise of new tru2way hardware and hardware to take advantage of the 1Ghz that's coming. I am no longer willing to wait for the next round of promises that never see the light of day. I retire the end of February and then will be traveling until mid-June. Cox has that long to get it's act together.

Sorry to vent, but you opened the door. And if I'm this frustrated, you can only imagine what others who are less sympathetic are feeling. :)

simply passed on the costs of individual channels, like MSNBC for $.15/mo
You might be surprised by some of the costs per subscriber

I believe Cox should have a big hand in pressuring them to add HD
Cox believes that too however, FCC have given the networks the upper hand.

Cox is the one not adding channels based on some bogus percent of programming that is HD.I would guess alot of it is based on promised channels within a timeframe. (strictly a guess)

that doesn't mean adding 8-10 channels. That means adding every one that is available to mirror their original analog lineup

The company's intention but that's on the negotiation side.

I've seen the promise of the Gemstar/TV Guide Passport IPG and now the NDS stuff. I've heard the promise of new tru2way hardware and hardware to take advantage of the 1Ghz that's coming. I am no longer willing to wait for the next round of promises that never see the light of day. I retire the end of February and then will be traveling until mid-June. Cox has that long to get it's act together.
I hope we will have most of that done by then as well. :D

I might agree with that if all Cox did was pass on the cost of these channels and not add in their own (high?) profit margin. If Cox told me that they charged me $10/mo to provide cable and then simply passed on the costs of individual channels, like MSNBC for $.15/mo, I'd go to the content provider with my complaints/requests. However, since Cox pays them a relatively small portion of what I pay Cox, I believe Cox should have a big hand in pressuring them to add HD content so that Cox can then feel justified in adding the channel.

IMHO, that's part of why I pay Cox as much as I (grudgingly) do. Cox is the one not adding channels based on some bogus percent of programming that is HD. I listened to that argument when Cox was fighting with NBC-12 here in Phoenix. I went along with it because, at the time, it seemed reasonable. However, it no longer does. I pay more for less and I'm no longer satisfied.

Also, if a channel has only one program that I want in HD, I want the HD channel, period. I also want a DVR that is in step with what everyone else offers and I'm tired of waiting for empty promises. I've been at this for over 6 years now and have supported Cox down the line, but that support will come to an end if something doesn't happen once EON is complete. And that doesn't mean adding 8-10 channels. That means adding every one that is available to mirror their original analog lineup, not their current watered down lineup.

I've seen the promise of the Gemstar/TV Guide Passport IPG and now the NDS stuff. I've heard the promise of new tru2way hardware and hardware to take advantage of the 1Ghz that's coming. I am no longer willing to wait for the next round of promises that never see the light of day. I retire the end of February and then will be traveling until mid-June. Cox has that long to get it's act together.

Sorry to vent, but you opened the door. And if I'm this frustrated, you can only imagine what others who are less sympathetic are feeling. :)

Vent away Dave! I don't understand all the hardware stuff you were talking about but all I know is that they promised 80 HD channels and they are no where near that nor do they seem to care. Chandler is getting about 10 new channels at the beginning of Q2, great, but that doesn't solve the problem of the lies that we are getting.

I am a sports fan and I don't think I am asking to much for the NFL Network, NHL Network and soon MLB Network to be in HD. Idaho even has WGN HD, nice! Would like to see the Sox and Cubs in HD.

I don't understand the bandwidth problem. They new they had the problem when the promised the 80 channels. Well they got me to switch from DTV and now I am regretting it. I am willing to wait until at least the MLB Network comes online to see if it is only going to be on SD or if Phoenix will get it in HD. If it is not, I'm gone! Cox will start losing customers soon I believe. People paid a ton of money for their HDTV and would love to watch HD content on it from their favorite channels.

Cox, please get a clue on what your customers are asking for!

I know from reading different web sites cox Omaha is about 3-4 months from finishing the eon and other upgrades. I wonder how many cox locations are done and if they got a bunch of new hd and digital channels right away. Omaha currently has 38 HD with hopefully 50 by the end of 08.

Cox High Definition Service
705 KMTV HD (CBS Affiliate)
708 WOWT (NBC Affiliate)
709 KETV HD (ABC Affiliate)
710 KPTM HD (FOX Affiliate)
711 KXVO HD (CW Affiliate)
712 NETV HD (PBS Affiliate)
720 CNN HD
722 CNBC HD
735 ESPN HD
736 ESPN 2 HD
740 NFL Network HD
745 FSNHD
747 Golf hd
748 Versus HD
755 TBS HD
756 TNT HD
757 Universal HD
758 AMC HD - Coming Soon!
759 USA HD
761 LifeTime Movie Network HD
762 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
775 Food Network HD
776 HGTV HD
777 Travel Channel HD
778 Planet Green HD
780 Lifetime HD
790 Animal Planet HD
791 Nickelodeon HD
810 National Geographic HD
811 Discovery Theater HD
812 Discovery Channel HD
813 TLC HD
814 History Channel HD
816 Science HD
821 A&E HD
826 WGNHD
840 PalladiaHD
841 MTVHD
846 VH1HD
848 CMTHD
855 Sci Fi HD
856 Bravo HD
857 SpikeHD
858 Comedy HD Coming Soon
880 HBO HD^
885 Cinemax HD^
890 Showtime HD^
895 STARZ! HD^

Here is Omaha current lineup of HD

Vent away Dave! I don't understand all the hardware stuff you were talking about but all I know is that they promised 80 HD channels and they are no where near that nor do they seem to care. Chandler is getting about 10 new channels at the beginning of Q2, great, but that doesn't solve the problem of the lies that we are getting.
Come on now. Not making a projection/goal of 80 channels by the end of the year does not constitute a lie. There is every indication in this thread that Cox is working to get those channels to us, but they have obviously run into problems/delays with EON/SDV. The list of channels they've added throughout Cox has grown and is still growing. While some areas are better equiped to add more now, eventually all those channels in my list will become available throughout Cox.

sports fan and I don't think I am asking to much for the NFL Network, NHL Network and soon MLB Network to be in HD. Idaho even has WGN HD, nice! Would like to see the Sox and Cubs in HD.
NFL HD is on the list of coming channel additions. However, it is not going to be availble to many until the season is over. I assume this is the NFL Network HD, but I don't remember seeing any announcement that Cox and the NFL had reached any agreement.

As for the Sox and Cubs, I'm from Packer Country, so I think you really should consider moving back to Chicago. :)

I don't understand the bandwidth problem..........would love to watch HD content on it from their favorite channels.
Yes, they knew they had the problem, but they were also spending upwards of $50M to do the EON upgrade to meet their 80 channel goal. Unfortunately, that hasn't progressed as quickly as they had planned and they are now behind schedule. That doesn't translate into lies or broken promises, just a schedule slippage. It would be easier to take if they would publically admit all this and let us know where things stand, but that has never been a Cox forte. We can take some solace in the fact that they are beginning to add more channels as EON/SDV completes around the Valley, starting the end of this month. I don't know if there is a number associated with the current goal. That goal is to have all available HD counterparts for the analog/SD channels they carry, including premium channels.

As for losing subs, that has already happened for the most part. There will be some additional loses during the hoildays as folks by HDTVs, but I think the major bleeding has passed, unless of course, they totally blow the current schedule, now through next March. Folks tend to accept a satellite being lost during launch that results in delays, but they don't seem to accept delays in the EON upgrade, probably bcause they can't see it. :)

The only other comment I can make is that outside of the sports networks that I've already commented on, I have a hard time figuring out what it is that folks want. Most other HD channels, with the exception of SciFi, there just isn't much in HD that isn't syndicated reruns.[/quote]

Cox, please get a clue on what your customers are asking for!
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've emailed this exact sentiment to Cox over the last 6 years. :)

I know from reading different web sites cox Omaha is about 3-4 months from finishing the eon and other upgrades. I wonder how many cox locations are done and if they got a bunch of new hd and digital channels right away. Omaha currently has 38 HD with hopefully 50 by the end of 08.
I think we're about 4 months from finishing too, but parts of Phoenix will have 44 channels by the end of this month with other areas to follow in the coming months as EON completes in those areas. I thinkt he most any Cox market has is 48, but I could be behind a few. From reading this and other threads, it seems additions are going in groups of 10-12 or so. I don't recall anyone getting more than this all at once. I'm hopeful that once the latest additions are made throughout the Valley, Cox will add the rest in a single group and get us all the available HD counterparst for their analog/SD channels, including premiums.

Cox High Definition Service
705 KMTV HD (CBS Affiliate)
708 WOWT (NBC Affiliate)
709 KETV HD (ABC Affiliate)
710 KPTM HD (FOX Affiliate)
711 KXVO HD (CW Affiliate)
712 NETV HD (PBS Affiliate)
720 CNN HD
722 CNBC HD
735 ESPN HD
736 ESPN 2 HD
740 NFL Network HD
745 FSNHD
747 Golf hd
748 Versus HD
755 TBS HD
756 TNT HD
757 Universal HD
758 AMC HD - Coming Soon!
759 USA HD
761 LifeTime Movie Network HD
762 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
775 Food Network HD
776 HGTV HD
777 Travel Channel HD
778 Planet Green HD
780 Lifetime HD
790 Animal Planet HD
791 Nickelodeon HD
810 National Geographic HD
811 Discovery Theater HD
812 Discovery Channel HD
813 TLC HD
814 History Channel HD
816 Science HD
821 A&E HD
826 WGNHD
840 PalladiaHD
841 MTVHD
846 VH1HD
848 CMTHD
855 Sci Fi HD
856 Bravo HD
857 SpikeHD
858 Comedy HD Coming Soon
880 HBO HD^
885 Cinemax HD^
890 Showtime HD^
895 STARZ! HD^

Here is Omaha current lineup of HD

THis pretty much matches New England with the exception of AMCHD (which we have) and the locals of course....COmedy HD shoulld be here next month, supposedly there were issues with launching the channel so it was delayed.

THis pretty much matches New England with the exception of AMCHD (which we have) and the locals of course....COmedy HD shoulld be here next month, supposedly there were issues with launching the channel so it was delayed.

all I can get from omaha csr's is it's a contract issue with AMCHD and ComedyHD.

I think we're about 4 months from finishing too, but parts of Phoenix will have 44 channels by the end of this month with other areas to follow in the coming months as EON completes in those areas. I thinkt he most any Cox market has is 48, but I could be behind a few. From reading this and other threads, it seems additions are going in groups of 10-12 or so. I don't recall anyone getting more than this all at once. I'm hopeful that once the latest additions are made throughout the Valley, Cox will add the rest in a single group and get us all the available HD counterparst for their analog/SD channels, including premiums.

Dave do you know if cox plans to carry more than just one hd premium channel of each of HBO,Cinemax,Showtime,Starz or are they planning to carry more premiums?

THis pretty much matches New England with the exception of AMCHD (which we have) and the locals of course....COmedy HD shoulld be here next month, supposedly there were issues with launching the channel so it was delayed.

I just looked at your line and wonder how the call Golf HD new when it's just being split from versus. If you like country music you will like GAC.

Dave do you know if cox plans to carry more than just one hd premium channel of each of HBO,Cinemax,Showtime,Starz or are they planning to carry more premiums?
That is my understanding, but I have no idea when. I suspect it for sure won't be until they get some experience with SDV and the courts figure out the legality of all that. Even DirecTV doesn't have/show all the HBOs yet, at least not on the channel lineup I looked at last night on their site. I believe Fios has them already and I know Dish at least has some of them. I haven't checked my list lately, but I think that is the only way Cox can ever get to 80+. I think my list currently has like 67 channels, including PPV, VODs, and the HDNets.

And that brings up another point. Without some creative counting, there might not even 80 HD channels out there unless you count East/West feeds, etc., like DirecTV does. That doesn't mean it's wrong, just that many people don't consider East/West feeds (or the National Network feeds or all the RSNs that not everyone can receive) separate channels, especially in a world with DVRs. So, depending on the number of locals in a market, some Cox markets may never see 80 while others might see 85+.

all I can get from omaha csr's is it's a contract issue with AMCHD and ComedyHD.

AMC took I think around 2 months to get here after it was planned due to "contract issues" COmedy HD was reported by a "Cox insider" as being delayed in New England due to provider issues.

I just looked at your line and wonder how the call Golf HD new when it's just being split from versus. If you like country music you will like GAC.
Welll technically it is "new" ;) as there has never been a GOlfHD channel previously. Even if its just split off from VsHD, those who are aware of the change know its not really new, but I suspect many if not all providers will count it as a "new channel".

I think everyone appreciates that COX is adding new HD channels but many of them are not even HD and are full of commercials (most of them/all of them?) I find myself changing the channel often because I can't take any more commercials, just like the old SDTV...

We need channels like HDNET!. You have now gotten rid of MojoHD which was on the right track, so now give us HDNET, pleaseeeee

I think everyone appreciates that COX is adding new HD channels but many of them are not even HD and are full of commercials (most of them/all of them?) I find myself changing the channel often because I can't take any more commercials, just like the old SDTV...

We need channels like HDNET!. You have now gotten rid of MojoHD which was on the right track, so now give us HDNET, pleaseeeee


if you want HDNet so bad swtch to a provider that has it. or bug your local cox for it since I don't see it comming national to cox since the want offer free hd plus the cost to rent equipment.

if you want HDNet so bad swtch to a provider that has it. or bug your local cox for it since I don't see it comming national to cox since the want offer free hd plus the cost to rent equipment.
I guess I should take a look at HDNet and HDNet Movies to see just what they offer in the way of original programming and new movies. My guess is I'll be disappointed. But, it is true that posting here doesn't do much and if one doesn't followup with an email to Cox, these channels will never get added. FWIW, the email should include some words that indicate you are willing to pay extra for these channels. For whatever reason, Cox has a hangup about charging extra for any HD channels. As long as that remains their policy, we'll never see HDNet anything.

As an added note, some new HD channels were added in parts of Phoenix,, but they all appear to be SDV, so folks with Tivo's or CC-equipped HDTVs can't view them yet. I thought maybe with all the other channels they were moving to SDV, the new HD channels might be regular channels. Of course, with the recent FCC rulings against them, maybe they didn't move the others to SDV yet after all.

I guess I should take a look at HDNet and HDNet Movies to see just what they offer in the way of original programming and new movies. My guess is I'll be disappointed. But, it is true that posting here doesn't do much and if one doesn't followup with an email to Cox, these channels will never get added. FWIW, the email should include some words that indicate you are willing to pay extra for these channels. For whatever reason, Cox has a hangup about charging extra for any HD channels. As long as that remains their policy, we'll never see HDNet anything.

As an added note, some new HD channels were added in parts of Phoenix,, but they all appear to be SDV, so folks with Tivo's or CC-equipped HDTVs can't view them yet. I thought maybe with all the other channels they were moving to SDV, the new HD channels might be regular channels. Of course, with the recent FCC rulings against them, maybe they didn't move the others to SDV yet after all.

Dave Orange County has it, but I thing we decided it was local thing so if they want HDNet the best thing to do is email and call your local cox office and mention you don't mind paying like Dave posted+.

Dave Orange County has it, but I thing we decided it was local thing so if they want HDNet the best thing to do is email and call your local cox office and mention you don't mind paying like Dave posted+.
Yes, it's a local thing with them and I never was able to find out why. Maybe Cuban lives there and has cable..........just joking. :)

Anyone know what Cox considers a quarter? I just this past week got got info from a csr that Omaa is supposed to add more channels before the quarter is up and just found out today They are adding the promised AMCHD, also WE,MLB,Fox Business on December 30th. We also will miss the 60HD Mark by about 10. That's counting the Golf/Versus split in the 60 by the end of 08.

Anyone know what Cox considers a quarter?
AFAIK, it's the same as everyone else: Q1 = Jan 1-Mar 31, Q2 = Apr 1-Jun 30, Q3 = Jul 1-Sep 30, and Q4 = Oct 1-Dec 31. I believe their Fiscal quarters are the same too. At least here, when they've mentioned Q1, they've meant Jan 1-Mar 31 as far as upgrade schedules, etc., go.

AFAIK, it's the same as everyone else: Q1 = Jan 1-Mar 31, Q2 = Apr 1-Jun 30, Q3 = Jul 1-Sep 30, and Q4 = Oct 1-Dec 31. I believe their Fiscal quarters are the same too. At least here, when they've mentioned Q1, they've meant Jan 1-Mar 31 as far as upgrade schedules, etc., go.


Thanks dave that's what I thought was, but wasn't sure.

Iwonder when MLBHD will be added?

Iwonder when MLBHD will be added?

I just emailed Cox about that same channel and I don't think Cox is getting it in HD, at least not in Phoenix based onthe next batch of channels we are getting. Here is the reply to my question:

Thank you for your inquiry.

We appreciate you taking the time to advise us of your interest in the
MLB Network channel. Although this channel is not currently available,
we have notified our Programming Department of your interest in seeing
it added to our line-up.

We value your feedback and strive to offer a variety of channels to meet
the needs of our customers. We are especially interested in providing
programming specifically requested by customers like you.

We must consider a number of factors, though, when choosing to add or
delete programming. These factors include programming costs, program
ratings and the effect that the addition or subtraction will have on the
remaining line-up.

Please reply to this message if we can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

E-Care Specialist
Cox Communications - Arizona

I just emailed Cox about that same channel and I don't think Cox is getting it in HD, at least not in Phoenix based onthe next batch of channels we are getting. Here is the reply to my question:

Thank you for your inquiry.

We appreciate you taking the time to advise us of your interest in the
MLB Network channel. Although this channel is not currently available,
we have notified our Programming Department of your interest in seeing
it added to our line-up.

We value your feedback and strive to offer a variety of channels to meet
the needs of our customers. We are especially interested in providing
programming specifically requested by customers like you.

We must consider a number of factors, though, when choosing to add or
delete programming. These factors include programming costs, program
ratings and the effect that the addition or subtraction will have on the
remaining line-up.

Please reply to this message if we can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

E-Care Specialist
Cox Communications - Arizona


The non HD version doesn't even launch/go live until January 1st, so hopefully by baseball season the HD version will launch.

It looks like mpeg 4 will be next year http://www.informationweek.com/video/unifiedcommunications/1784543592

The non HD version doesn't even launch/go live until January 1st, so hopefully by baseball season the HD version will launch.

MLB Network HD goes live on January 1 as well. Cox has an ownership stake in the network and an estimated 50 million homes at launch were agreed to by the the cable/satellite people when the agreement (which is what rescued Extra Innings from being DirecTV-only) was agreed to in 2007. None of that means that Cox, particularly the Keystone Kops that run the Arizona operation, will be able to provide it anytime soon. I'd be real surprised if it showed up on my set in HD in time for the season to start.

MLB Network HD goes live on January 1 as well. Cox has an ownership stake in the network and an estimated 50 million homes at launch were agreed to by the the cable/satellite people when the agreement (which is what rescued Extra Innings from being DirecTV-only) was agreed to in 2007. None of that means that Cox, particularly the Keystone Kops that run the Arizona operation, will be able to provide it anytime soon. I'd be real surprised if it showed up on my set in HD in time for the season to start.

I know that, but what's the point of launching the HD feed same day as the SD version when that space could be used for a different HD channel until the regular season starts?

It looks like mpeg 4 will be next year http://www.informationweek.com/video/unifiedcommunications/1784543592
I'm not sure what that very short comment meant. From what I understand, there are two mpeg4 items in play; receipt of content from providers via mpeg4 and subsequent conversion to mpeg2 for broadcast (which is what I'm afraid he might have been talking about) and actually broadcasting mpeg4 with the introduction of all new user hardware to tune mpeg4 channels. AFAIK, current user equipment cannot process mpeg4 and the rest of his comments in the clip lead me to believe they have no plans to replace current hardware. In fact, he specifically mentioned the tru2way-lite stuff that will work on legacy SA units. Hopefully, I'm just being pessimistic, and if I am, I'd like to hear it. :)

BTW, I fired off an email and hopefully I'll get a response. That was a good video, thanks for posting the link.

I'm not sure what that very short comment meant. From what I understand, there are two mpeg4 items in play; receipt of content from providers via mpeg4 and subsequent conversion to mpeg2 for broadcast (which is what I'm afraid he might have been talking about) and actually broadcasting mpeg4 with the introduction of all new user hardware to tune mpeg4 channels. AFAIK, current user equipment cannot process mpeg4 and the rest of his comments in the clip lead me to believe they have no plans to replace current hardware. In fact, he specifically mentioned the tru2way-lite stuff that will work on legacy SA units. Hopefully, I'm just being pessimistic, and if I am, I'd like to hear it. :)

BTW, I fired off an email and hopefully I'll get a response. That was a good video, thanks for posting the link.

Dave Omaha is still using the older style basic motorola digital boxes also, I bet Cox is trying get thier monies worth on the older style non cable card boxes.

Dave Omaha is still using the older style basic motorola digital bxes aso, I bet Cox is trying get thier monies worth on the older style non cable card boxes.
Yeah, in that regard I wish they were more like DirecTV and upgraded their equipment in wholesale batches, even if it would mean 1-2 year commitments. :)

Yeah, in that regard I wish they were more like DirecTV and upgraded their equipment in wholesale batches, even if it would mean 1-2 year commitments. :)

cox probably thinks if it's not broke don't fix it:D

It looks like mpeg 4 will be next year http://www.informationweek.com/video/unifiedcommunications/1784543592

I wish I understood what that video was all about. It was greek to me. I am trying to learn the technical side to my hobby. Is there some place that explains the hardware/software of HDTV? Thanks for the help.

I wish Cox would get SpeedHD and FXHD here.

Yeah, in that regard I wish they were more like DirecTV and upgraded their equipment in wholesale batches, even if it would mean 1-2 year commitments. :)
I know there's a smiley there, but even in jest, would you really want to commit to a provider that stated 80 HD channels by the end of the year and finished with 33?

BTW, now that Mojo HD is dead, did Cox add anything to replace it? Or did 33 just become 32?

I know there's a smiley there, but even in jest, would you really want to commit to a provider that stated 80 HD channels by the end of the year and finished with 33?
Sure, unlike many, I understand the nature of "promises" that are really just goals or advertising hype and take them with a grain of salt, especially when they are oftentimes at the mercy of 3rd parties. Plus, it helps to know someone who tries to give me the straight scoop. :)

DirecTV has not met their "goals" either and people there are starting to rumble. In fact, there was an article posted in HTOP outlining the expected churn rates, etc., for next year as a result of the economy and what folks perceive as broken "promises". If that kind of thing bothered me, I'd have been gone a long time ago, but I still look at what I agreed to pay for and I'm still satisfied. Sure, I'd like more HD channels, but like I've said, there is only one that I don't have that offers anything I want and that's SciFi.

To be fair though, my post was toungue in cheek because you know I don't like commitments for any reason. IMHO, either what they offer is worth it long term or it isn't. It shouldn't take a commitment to get me to keep anyone's service. I understand commitments to recoup hardware costs, but to me that just tells me their rates are too high to begin with. I'd rather pay a rate for my services and then pay for the hardware. That is the only way I really know what it's all costing me and what I'm getting into. I dislkike their "slight of hand" approach to get and then retain subs.

BTW, now that Mojo HD is dead, did Cox add anything to replace it? Or did 33 just become 32?
Nope, nothing added yet, but I didn't expect anything since they are in the process of adding channels as they complete EON, etc. It would have been nice though if that had added SciFi. Maybe I'll send an eamil and ask WTF. :)

BTW. I sent you a PM in the local forums re a certain member.