MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY! [Text View] - Page 10

WilliamR

11-29-06, 10:49 AM

I have exchanged PM's with Members here that have gamed on Plasma after 200 hour break in period, with no noticeable IR after hours of gaming, and in the same hour I read a post from a plasma owner who played only 1 hour once after break in using reduced settings, and he sees IR for weeks from a one hour session.

1) Is it possible that the quality of the Plasma you buy is critical?

2) Do some people say they broke it in properly for 200 hours, but really didn't and just want to complain?

I really want a Plasma, the Pioneer 5070, and I have a regular X-box, but someday will get a 360, but I would never be gaming for more than a few hours at a time, maybe 2 or 3 times per week.

That sounds safe if I break it in properly, but some if these storeis scare me, for these people claim to be breaking them in to the point where IR chances should be greatly reduced.

I guess I may have to go 1080P LCD and deal with blur and crushed blacks, damnit!!!!

Set quality definitely impacts IR, some newer sets have newer technologies to help, improved technology, etc. etc. As a note, I played Halo 2 on my 6070 the other day for 6 1/2 hours without reducing settings and there is no IR. While this is extreme, I might of gotten lucky, etc. just points out that if you get a newer set, and use common sense, you are going to be fine.

DReilly1

11-29-06, 10:53 AM

Set quality definitely impacts IR, some newer sets have newer technologies to help, improved technology, etc. etc. As a note, I played Halo 2 on my 6070 the other day for 6 1/2 hours without reducing settings and there is no IR. While this is extreme, I might of gotten lucky, etc. just points out that if you get a newer set, and use common sense, you are going to be fine.

I know there is no guarantee, and I will be ridiculously cautious early, to hopefully give me peace of mind for years to come.

The wife will be very pissed if I complain about IR after I spent $3K + on a new tv.

Thanks William.

USCRx

11-29-06, 11:42 AM

I posted my situation about 2 weeks ago. I have had the Pioneer 5071 for about 6 months and went through the 100+ hour low contrast, no static image break-in period. You would think that would be enough, but maybe it's not. I do watch a lot of sports on the plasma, for that is why I bought it. However, beware of watching too much E__N for prolonged periods. 2 weeks ago I noticed the sports ticker/logo on the bottom of the screen. I have not watched that channel since and it does not seem to be fading. Other sports channels vary the location of the scoreboard and do not keep their logo on continuously, but the E__N ticker is always there. Just wanted to remind other sports fans to vary their viewing habits, and do not fall asleep while watching a b-ball game on E__N. :)

DReilly1

11-29-06, 12:19 PM

greggsand

11-29-06, 01:20 PM

To avoid espn logo-burn during break-in, use the zoom feature on your tv (if u have one) to the point where the logo is out of the screen.

frostiex

11-29-06, 03:35 PM

So what is the proper break in period for the panny 50px60U?
How long should I do it per day with the break in DVD from this website?

zizo79

11-29-06, 04:22 PM

hello guys , i just bought a panasonic TH-42PX60 ..i am thinking about calibrating it..but i do not know which DVD should i use : AVIA,DVE or ISF MONSTER ? and when it the best time to use them ??also when can i start playing video games on the tv ?
thanks a lot

Schteevie

11-29-06, 06:05 PM

If what you say is true, then the entire screen is going to have IR at one point or another, you make it sound like as soon as a pixel gets red sent to it (or whatever) then it begins a hidden countdown and goes toward its cummulative amount of red. That is crazy, you shouldn't post crap like this.

I wasn't going to bother responding, but for the sake of the new users that don't want to read the entire thread, I need to debunk the above post.

The fictional "hidden count down" WilliamR is talking about is the aging of the pixels, and yes, it does exist.
Most plasmas are rated at 60,000 hours to half life - so that is pretty good ( like 20 years at 5 hours a day or something), but if some pixels age more then others, you do get burn-in, and yes, it is accumulative as the pixels age. (IR is not burn-in, and that is not what I am talking about)
The burn-in issue is a problem with the inital aging of the phosphorus on the pixels, because there is a sharp curve and they age more then ever at first, yadda yadda, that is why everyone talks about the critical 200 hour break-in.

You can pretend the issue doesn't exist - I don't care.
But I am not going to ruin my plasma, by ignoring warnings that are very easy to comply with, and I hope to help others protect theirs.
IMO - A propperly aged plamsa is the best flat screen TV you can buy based on todays technology.

I have links and articles stored, I did tons of research before buying; but I really don't feel like digging them up right now as I am heading to the gym and getting away from the computer.
This info is widely available to anyone that wants to search it (here on this forum or else where on the web).

I think this thread is now offically 60% redundant.
Everything that needs to be said about break-in/burn-in, has been said, and lots of silly arguements have cropped up; I should probably stop wasting my time posting on it.
;)

New users - I see a lot of the same questions that have been answered many, many times.
If you don't want to read this massive (although largely helpful) thread.
Try searching your specific question please.

Schteevie - peace, out
:cool:

Jaxxon

11-29-06, 11:45 PM

Just got my Panasonic 42px60u today, and a little disappointed...

I've only had it on for about 2hrs of the 100hr break-in period, but I think I may have got a little burn-in my first ten minutes with the set!

After about 2hrs of the TV being on, and maybe 2 or so of it being off, I can STILL see the little progress bar that shows when you do the automatic channel search. It took awhile, and I was getting a little antsy, but the manual says that is one of the first things to do. Now, I can still see the bar when changing the channels or in very dark scenes.

Any clue if this will fade over time, with more use? I will be pretty damn disappointed if I went beyond what is needed for break-in, and still got burn-in because of something like that, when I was following the manual's instructions. I'm hoping this is just a longer case of IR or something, and maybe it will go away with more TV time. But I don't know. Is it possible to get permanent burn-in on a set like Panasonic, with only maybe 10 minutes of something being on the screen?

avjeff

11-30-06, 12:46 AM

dr62

11-30-06, 02:19 AM

Just wanted to report on the methods I used to get rid of some nasty retention that I had about a week ago (EA Sports logo to be exact) - this is on a Pioneer 5060, so keep that in mind.

1) Left TV on Discovery HD at night for 3 hour intervals (I have the TV set to turn off after 3 hours).

2) Would run 5 successive 20 min minute cycles of the "screen wash" test pattern that is found in the service menu of the set. This is a vertical band of fluctuating RGB colors about 8 inches wide that moves slowly and horizontally across the screen for approx 20 minutes.

I had monitored the status of the retention through this process and found it to be a very gradual process but now that I look for it I cannot even find a hint of it left so I am quite happy.

Just thought I would say that something I learned on here has helped me out!! Thanks!!

- Josh

Please let me know how to do "screen wash" , I have a Pioneer 4360 .
Thanks

Wanderer1

11-30-06, 03:31 AM

My Panasonic TH-42PX60U Plasma has around 500+ break-in hours. Recently I started to play Xbox 360 Call of Duty 2. I limited gaming session to 2 ½ hours. Immediately after playing the game I can faintly see the gaming HUD on any static white background (like the white background of the Xbox 360 logo boot screen). Although the HUD IR is not noticeable when playing a DVD or against any color other than white, it is still takes up to 1 ½ hours of DVD viewing before the visible IR against white backgrounds disappear. Since, so far, the image retention is not visible during normal TV/DVD viewing, it currently is not a problem.

Question: If I continue to play Call of Duty 2, and continue to limit my gaming sessions to >2 1/2 hours, will the IR continue to be a non-factor, or will it get worse? (e.g.- take longer to disappear or become visible during DVD viewing)

optivity

11-30-06, 07:04 AM

The use of black bars and static images combined with a PDPs picture settings: vivid, standard, cinema, contrast, brightness and sharpness; are all factors that will contribute to increase or decrease the risk of uneven phosphor wear (black bars), temporary or permanent (a.k.a. burn in) image retention.

Your post indicates you were able to remove the static image left behind after 150 min. of gaming by displaying full screen content for 90 min.

During hours 100 - 1000 of operation, Panasonic recommends PDP owners display static images for no more than 10% of viewing, so if you followed up 150 min. of gaming with 25 hours of full screen content you should be safe.

Turning your picture settings (brightness/contrast) down some will also help to reduce the risk of permanent image retention.

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective (http://www.dynamicdigital.ca/documents/Plasma%20Facts%20and%20Myths.pdf)

Jaxxon

11-30-06, 10:28 AM

Jaxxon, do you have your set in Vivid mode? That could certainly contribute to image retention, especially in a new set. If you do, change that baby to Standard, and put the Picture setting at 0, and Brightness at no more than +5. And leave it like that for at least 100 hours.

Thanks for responding. I followed the instructions in the manual, so I did the auto channel search before adjusting the settings (so, yes, it was in Vivid at the time). However, right afterwards I went down and changed it to cinema, then switched the picture and brightness VERY low (to like -25, it wasn't that bad). It was super-dark in some dark scenes, so I went ahead and turned it up to -15 and -15. That's what it's been for awhile.

Like I said, I read everything here and have been good about breaking it in, it was just disappointing that I could still see that black progress bar outline when the screen was black for hours afterwards. I thought about canceling the auto search midway and adjusting the settings since it was taking so long, but then I figured it would take even longer, so I let it sit through.

Even on a brand new set, is it possible to get permanent burn-in from just 10ish minutes of viewing something? I sure hope not. Again, it MAYBE seems to be fading a bit (I'll have to check again), so maybe that's a good sign. Actually, I just went and checked it, and it seems to be mostly gone (but it's hard to tell since the room is a bit bright at the moment).

beanpoppa

11-30-06, 10:53 AM

Ok... there is a lot of confusion in this thread. One of the bigger ones is the interchanging of the terms/symptoms of Image retention and burn-in. Image retention can happen quickly- with just a few minutes of a bright image on the screen. It's generally visible when the TV is off, but not so much when it is displaying other images. The 'retained' image will appear BRIGHTER on a white screen. It is also very temporary. It will go away when other images are displayed for a few minutes (or by using the whitewash function that most PDP's have.)

Burn-in is the result of wearing out of the phosphor coating of the display. A plasma (and CRT) is illuminated by exciting phosphor in the pixels, which makes them glow. These phosphors have a finite life, and over time, they don't glow as bright when excited as they did when they are new. That's what the 60,000 hour rating is for. After 60,000 hours of typical use, the phosphors will only glow half as bright as they did when they are new. Essentially, the ENTIRE screen is burned it. The problem comes when you have static bright images- those phosphors age more quickly than the darker portions. Technically, displaying a static image for 1 minute causes burn-in, but your eye can't see it because those pixels are only 0.000001% darker (my silly numbers... not empirical.) Visible burn-in requires MANY hours of static image before it's noticeable. Falling asleep one night with ESPN on will not cause visible burn-in. That is most likely image retention.

I think a lot of the confusion is because of the term "burn-in". It implies that leaving a bright image on the screen too long overheats the screen, and that if you change it you allow it to cool off. In truth, if you put CNN on for a month, or alternate it every other day for 2 months, you will cause the same pixel wear.

Dufusyte

11-30-06, 10:56 AM

http://www.uclick.com/feature/06/11/30/dp061130.gif

USCRx

11-30-06, 11:22 AM

jpoints

11-30-06, 11:31 AM

I've read 75% of this thread and I am more confused now than ever. So you are supposed to refrain from static images for the first 100-200 hours? This is somewhat tought to do. Name a show where something is always moving. The news for example, the guy/gal may move their mouth and hands every now and then and cut to a short news clip, but much of it is them sitting there. It seems to me that video games on 50% levels without HUD's or static logos would be the best possible way to break in a plasma. The scenery is always change, the person,car,bike is always moving back and forth and you would be using most of the colors at the same time. Am I missing something here? I think video games are crucial to prolonging life of a plasma! (said in jest a little)

It's actually an illusion. The person on the screen that you are controlling stays in the center of the screen and the background moves around the person. So esentially there are static images within a video game. Also not sure what you mean by 50% levels but that's sounds high to be running at break in. My stuff is sitting at like 15% and as long as I'm not in a bright room I'm okay. Dark scenes are dark but I think of this as being realistic. If you're in a dark room you're not going to see another person's face distinctly. Although for video games if the scene is dark you will be forced to turn up settings on your picture because you won't be able to play. I'd avoid video games in the first 200 hours at least. I'd also run the settings as low as possible. Like my pc I go on every so often for only a few minutes and I have everything turned down so low the pic quality sucks but I'm inside 100 hours still and it seems sensitive to the lower tool bar on the desktop screen of microsoft windows.

Also if you have kqed after 5 pm it's hd and I find that they're logo in the lower right is different than most stations and I hope other stations switch to it when everyone goes to hd. I think the icon was designed for plasma owners because when darker colors appear on the lower right hand side the screen the icon disappears. It's like a transparent station icon if that makes any sense. when lighter colors appear on the screen you can see the icon again and it's like a light white color but not necessarily really bright looking. Almost like a dull white.

jpoints

11-30-06, 11:37 AM

Burn-in is the result of wearing out of the phosphor coating of the display. A plasma (and CRT) is illuminated by exciting phosphor in the pixels, which makes them glow. These phosphors have a finite life, and over time, they don't glow as bright when excited as they did when they are new. That's what the 60,000 hour rating is for. After 60,000 hours of typical use, the phosphors will only glow half as bright as they did when they are new. Essentially, the ENTIRE screen is burned it. The problem comes when you have static bright images- those phosphors age more quickly than the darker portions. Technically, displaying a static image for 1 minute causes burn-in, but your eye can't see it because those pixels are only 0.000001% darker (my silly numbers... not empirical.) Visible burn-in requires MANY hours of static image before it's noticeable. Falling asleep one night with ESPN on will not cause visible burn-in. That is most likely image retention.

Thanks for trying to clarify but I had MI3 in the dvd player settings at 15% or less and the initial options screen was on for a matter of 8 seconds tops and I can still see the options on the bottom of the screen. That's way less than a minute and I can see it. Now once I run my break in svcd for 30 minutes the image will go away. But I find it takes more time to get the stuff to disappear than it took to actually get it to appear.

DReilly1

11-30-06, 12:14 PM

I want to thank all of those with much more knowledge about this technology than myself, for helping most of us understand the realistic risks, etc. of Burn In/IR.

I am a potential plasma owner, and like all of my larger purchases, I do an excrutiating amount of research. Here in is the dliemma for me personally, maybe others are in the same boat:

I have read hundreds, probably thousands, or posts about this subject, and what scares me is the wide gamut of people's experiences.

I am looking at the Pioneer 5070/5071, and will be using D-Nice's break in settings religiously for the first 200 hours. Most people that have done that seem to experience zero IR or burn In.

But there are others on this thread, with the Pioneer or Pannys, 2 higher quality & latest generation panels, that say they had settings way low for 200 hours and 1 hour of gmaing and they have 2 weeks of IR.

How can these experiences have such drasticly different outcomes. People played 6 1/2 hours of Halo 2 at 100 hours and no IR, one gaming session long term IR.

I dont get that. I am willing to be patient and do the break in process, but it seems that still doesn't matter in some cases. That just personally scares the hell out of me.

That for me, is why I keep posting in this thread, but to an earlier poster's comment about much redundancy here, that is true.

But does proper break in work or not????

thomby33

11-30-06, 12:22 PM

I have the logo of ESPN retained in the lower right corner of my screen. I went through the break-in period (100+ hours at low contrast). I like to watch ESPN, however, I have not watched ESPN ever since I noticed the IR (2 weeks). It is only truely noticable against a light solid colored screen or when things in that area of the screen are lightly colored. The problem is that after 2 weeks of watching only discovery channel, it has not seemed to fade at all. Is this still IR?

I noticed the white ESPN(not the red HD) logo as well, NO other issues with IR. I do watch a lot of college football on Sat but I never left it on over night and change the channell a lot, but the bright white ESPN(hd) must be one of the most prone IR logos out there. I wish they would just dampen the brightness and I'm sure they have heard complaints, but I doubt they care. afterall they're ESPN :mad:

bmwhd

11-30-06, 01:32 PM

DReilly1

11-30-06, 01:47 PM

I'm far from an expert, just a happy plasma owner but I think you're worrying about this way too much.

I have a new HP PL4260N with something less than 500 hours on it. I've played at least 30 hrs of Call of Duty 3 on the Xbox 360 with zero (0) IR issues.

These current generation plasmas are the bomb. Just get one and enjoy!

Pretty much a personality trait of mine, LOL

Good to hear another story of non issue, thanks :)

Wanderer1

11-30-06, 02:40 PM

Wanderer1

11-30-06, 02:50 PM

WilliamR

11-30-06, 03:37 PM

I think many people that claim zero IR actually incur IR regularly but just don't notice it (making it not a problem). If you look in the Xbox Gears of War IR thread, several gamers that previously claimed no IR, noticed long-term IR (e.g- the infamous EA Logo) only after turning off all the lights in the room and viewing the all black screen of a non-active video input.

I've done exactly that, and an all white screen, different colors, etc. No IR, played GOW to the end. Hours of one game (Oblivion, Halo, Fear, etc.) no IR. My wife would tell me right away, she looks for it more then me because her friends at work told her all these horror stories. Sure, older sets, definite problem. Newer sets, calibrated, common sense, its less and less of an issue. Sure you have to think about it, but you can still prevent it.

DReilly1

11-30-06, 03:43 PM

Wanderer1

11-30-06, 04:12 PM

I've done exactly that, and an all white screen, different colors, etc. No IR, played GOW to the end. Hours of one game (Oblivion, Halo, Fear, etc.) no IR. My wife would tell me right away, she looks for it more then me because her friends at work told her all these horror stories. Sure, older sets, definite problem. Newer sets, calibrated, common sense, its less and less of an issue. Sure you have to think about it, but you can still prevent it.

My set is 3 months old (with 500+ fullscreen viewing hours) and I followed all the burn-in rules/suggestions in the book. Tell me how I could have still 100% prevented it? (other not play games at all..). Based on some of the posts I have read in this thread, the reality is, despite calibrated and proper care, IR and burn-in can still happen with new Plasmas. Even after a handful of 2 1/2 hour gaming sessions. Just because it didn't happen to your new set after playing hours of Halo and Fear, doesn't meant it isn't happening other "calibrated" Plasmas.

Jaxxon

11-30-06, 06:39 PM

Did you say what you're settings were? I'm surprised if you got permanent burn-in after that short a time, unless the settings were turned WAAAAAAAY up. How long did you say you've had it? Maybe it will go away in time (even if it's taken awhile now).

The little progress bar that was only on my screen maybe 10-15 minutes took awhile to go away, but I think it's just about all gone now. Took probably 7hrs+ to get off, but again, it was only on there a few minutes, at high settings. Maybe your's will fade in time, too?

EDIT: Nevermind, I went back and read your issue. It sounds like you are getting IR, and it takes a little bit to go away, but no permanent burn-in, right? If that's the case, I say that's pretty normal considering your set is still pretty new. Now, if you only played a couple of hours and it doesn't go away at all, then you'd have an issue. But IR after a couple hours gaming that goes away in a couple of hours doesn't sound THAT bad. I know you're probably worried about it being permanent, but if you play for a couple of hours a night, and end up watching maybe 8ish hours of TV otherwise, I think you'll be fine. You could maybe adjust the settings a bit to cut back on the IR, but you shouldn't have to cut out gaming all together.

greenman

11-30-06, 07:57 PM

You guys the rule of thumb with burnin is that 15% of your viewing or less....

That means if you have less then 100 hours on your plasma and you played 20 hours of a game you will have burnin......

The more your screen has aged, the longer it will take.....

1000 hours, 150 hours for that game....

10000 hours, 1500 hours...

This is of course if burn in means pixel aging right?

Image retention can happen in just a few minutes of a static image. Image retention should go away...

Burnin's fade away too. My set is proof. Nothing ever fades 100% though but enough to the point where you can't see it anymore on a bright white screen.

1000 hours I have clocked in on my plasma now and I'm happy as hell, but still use caution. I play GOW on 360 every night, have hours upon hours in final fantasy 12, and problably will get the wii. Just take a pee break every so often, switch to the white screen and by the time you get back it should be gone. Then when your done gaming, watch a show, or play regular tv for an hour or two and your good to go....

WilliamR

12-01-06, 09:17 AM

My set is 3 months old (with 500+ fullscreen viewing hours) and I followed all the burn-in rules/suggestions in the book. Tell me how I could have still 100% prevented it? (other not play games at all..). Based on some of the posts I have read in this thread, the reality is, despite calibrated and proper care, IR and burn-in can still happen with new Plasmas. Even after a handful of 2 1/2 hour gaming sessions. Just because it didn't happen to your new set after playing hours of Halo and Fear, doesn't meant it isn't happening other "calibrated" Plasmas.

Depends on settings, depends on how long you played a game or watched a show, etc. etc. etc. You can have 10,000 hours of all full screen viewing, and you can still get IR/burn in if something is left on there, have to be cautious, etc. That is how it can be prevented.

TheMerk

12-01-06, 09:52 AM

I just wanted to give a big thanks to everyone in this thread.

Last weekend we took delivery of the 42" Panny plasma. That evening was spent watching mixed content including stretched SD, HD and a DVD.

Unfortunately, the DVD was in 2.35:1, and I hate zooming anything, so we watched it with letterbox bars. I freaked out when the letterbox bars were still visible once the DVD was done. I knew this was probably just IR, but it scared my anyway.

I immediately burned a copy of the Break In DVD, dialed down the settings to 50% and let er rip. Sure enough, the letterbox bars disappeared within a few minutes, they were just IR. Still, I made sure that all of our content over the next 100 hours was without static images and with the new lower settings. When we weren't watching the TV it was playing the Break In DVD.

Last night, we hit the 100 hour mark. As a test, I popped in another 2.35:1 DVD, bumped the settings back up to ISF, and two hours later, no letterbox bar IR.

I think that proves that the first 100 hours are the most critical.

Cooper0103

12-01-06, 10:08 AM

I've got a question...I've got a Panny 50" plasma that I bought about 3.5 weeks ago. We have been watching it with the settings (modified) from plasmabuyers guide. I did turn down the brightness and picture though. We have watch a few movies as well.

Is it too late for me to run the break in DVD? Can I still benefit from it now?

Also what version do I download? ISO, NRG, or Video_TS ?

X-Files

12-01-06, 11:53 AM

So far (knocks on wood) I have not seen any IR or burn in (Panny TH-42PX600U). Over 120 hours on the set. I have run the channel scan many times and had no issues there. I have been running +7 for pic and brightness for a while.

WilliamR

12-01-06, 01:01 PM

When you have the TV on but the source isn't on, how black is your screen? Is it like as black as when the TV is off, or is a little lighter? Can anyone post a picture?

Schteevie

12-01-06, 01:48 PM

When you have the TV on but the source isn't on, how black is your screen? Is it like as black as when the TV is off, or is a little lighter? Can anyone post a picture?

When a Plasma TV is on, regardless of what colour the various pixles are told to produce, each pixel has a small amout of energy going to it so that it is "primed" and ready to go.
So even when the screen is supposed to be black, if you look closely, you'll see that each pixel (red, green and blue) are slight on.
Each year plasmas get better at this, (and they are still much better then LCDs) but plasma black levels are far from perfect.

So to answer your question, no, the screen can not be as dark as it is when it is off.

WilliamR

12-01-06, 02:26 PM

When a Plasma TV is on, regardless of what colour the various pixles are told to produce, each pixel has a small amout of energy going to it so that it is "primed" and ready to go.
So even when the screen is supposed to be black, if you look closely, you'll see that each pixel (red, green and blue) are slight on.
Each year plasmas get better at this, (and they are still much better then LCDs) but plasma black levels are far from perfect.

So to answer your question, no, the screen can not be as dark as it is when it is off.

Yeah, I knew that, was wondering if anyone could post a picture of how black theirs is.

snowmoon

12-01-06, 02:28 PM

Yeah, I knew that, was wondering if anyone could post a picture of how black theirs is.

I'm going to have to go back and look closer now since I can't tell there is a difference between off and black on my panny 42PX60U.

frostiex

12-01-06, 03:48 PM

What I want to know is, using the break-in DVD, does it matter is I do the breakin @ night when I am sleeping or should I do it few hours @ a time?

TheMerk

12-01-06, 04:22 PM

What I want to know is, using the break-in DVD, does it matter is I do the breakin @ night when I am sleeping or should I do it few hours @ a time?

AFAIK, there's no difference which you do. It's quicker to run it whenever you're not otherwise watching the set. That's what I did.

bruder

12-01-06, 06:12 PM

Thanks for all the great info on this thread. As I understand it burn in is caused because the brightness of each pixel decays exponentially over time. The decay rate is proportional to current brightness so differential aging can cause burn-in. Breaking in the TV helps because the decay is exponential so as time goes on burn-in is less of an issue (the curve flattens out).

This means that it doesn't really make sense that a certain % of std def 'black bar' viewing is OK. The proportion depends on how much the display is aged. Early in life it's easy to burn, later more difficult.

Is this correct?

If so then doesn't it make sense to use normal settings, or even -increase- the brightness while running the break-in video? Since the scenes are uniform, increasing the brightness will age the display faster and break the set in in a fewer # hours. Just be sure to change back to reduced settings when watching SD video or playing games.

I just got a 50PX6U and I have to say that I do not like watching stretched SD content and I prefer black bars over the grey ones. I don't mind the reduced settings that I'm running at now. After I break the set in I am thinking of running all SD content with black bars and reduced or limited settings, and running all full screen content at brighter settings (at least initially). Since I don't like changing the aspect ratio or settings maybe I'll settle on 'full' mode with slightly reduced after a few thousand hours.

Any problems with the above?

Is there a similiar model for image retention that can help adjust habits to limit possible damage?

finprof

12-02-06, 02:47 AM

I will be betting my panasonic thx50pc60u 50 " plasma on Tuesday Dec 5. I will have to put it on a pedestal when I receive delivery. After few weeks, I will be able to mount it on a wall. My question is: Can i easily unhook the pedestal and wall-mount the plasma or is that not possible? I have to wait until my remodelling is done so that I can mount it and that's the reason for the wait.
Thanks for answering it for me.
Kash

DeltaOne

12-02-06, 09:07 AM

davewolfs

12-02-06, 11:34 PM

I was at Best Buy today and although the FHD1 was great, I was sad to see that it had the ESPN logo burnt into the corner. Is this common?

scflana

12-03-06, 05:10 AM

Pretty much a personality trait of mine, LOL

Good to hear another story of non issue, thanks :)

Hey DReilly1....

I'm in the same boat as you...spend hours on hours of researching large purchases, hoping not to get something and then immediately have buyer's remorse. And I too have been worried about some of the possible bad "traits" of plasmas, and going back & forth if I should get an LCD instead. But I've actually decided on the 5070 after reading many reviews, posts, etc...and will actually pull the trigger this coming week (our TV console is finally ready...hoorah!).

So I agree with bmwhd in that you're probably just worrying too much. Atleast, that's what I've convinced myself since I know I'm actually going to buy a plasma this week. I think if you're careful, which definitely sounds like you are, that you shouldn't have any problems with burn-in. So go ahead and spoil yourself this month! :)

freddypd

12-03-06, 07:22 AM

scflana,
Great to hear there are people like me out there. Research forever, great professional reviews, very good customer reviews and then to get a great price also.....to still feel not so sure about the purchase. Drives me nuts. I went plasma also - 600u. Delivery for 12/26/06.

davewolfs

12-03-06, 10:50 AM

I found this on avguide. Is this really true after you do a successful burn in?

If your viewing habits tend toward broadcast TV or you plan to play lots of video games on your new flat panel, LCD is the way to go. Video games have many static elements (score boxes, unmoving scenes, and so on) that can leave burn-in ghosts on plasmas, sometimes after only a few hours. The same goes for some TV shows, especially news channels with a ticker running across the bottom of the screen. The problem is compounded if you watch a lot of 4:3 TV; after a surprisingly short time, an outline of the 4:3 window can be seen on the plasma's screen. Many plasmas provide a "wipe" function that floods the screen with white to exorcize the ghosts, but the longer they remain on the screen, the harder it is to completely erase them.

Mark_P

12-03-06, 08:27 PM

rontron

12-03-06, 09:40 PM

Hi Mark

I had much the same thoughts as you did. I would strongly suggest you get both the LCD and the Plasma that you like and watch them in your house. I did that with the 42" Panasonic and a 45" Sharp LCD (720p) model. I could not believe how much better the plasma picture is. Even the streched/ zoomed material looked much better than LCD- at least to my eyes. Not to mention the great deals on plasmas. As you can probably guess i am watching the Panasonic and even with break in settings the picture is great. Good luck- its a great time to buy!!

Jaxxon

12-04-06, 12:35 AM

I don't know if you are coming from a 4:3 CRT or what, but I thought that I couldn't stand the stretched out mode after being used to a 4:3 CRT forever, either. Needless to say, I never use 4:3 mode on my widescreen anymore. I can't really imagine shrinking the image. I'd even gotten used to the normal "stretch" mode on my old Westinghouse, not to mention the "just" mode on the Panasonic plasma which makes it seem less stretched out. It's just too big and too nice not to stretch it all the way out.

dsilver668

12-04-06, 08:57 PM

Just wanted to drop a note.
Someone had mentioned going to www.thx.com and going to their THX optimizer section to order blue glasses. About $3.00 each. Anyway I clocked on the "Cars" Movie and I had my ISBN number off my package so they are sending me a THX setup disk and glasses free!!! That is way cool. I have GetGrey, and DVE soooo getting the glasses will be nice plus I will have the THX optimizer DVD too. How cool is that.. :)
Just thought others might want to know since the glasses are more useful and comfortable than holding a blue peice of plastic up to my face..
I plan to have the VIZIO 50P here by Christmas, so I want to have everything ready..

kluza

12-05-06, 02:09 AM

LFC FAN

12-05-06, 05:58 AM

Hello,

I am a noob to this forum as I just purchased a 42PX60U Plasma. I have been reading as much as I can on this amazing forum, but I can't find an answer to this question so I apolgize if it has been covered, but:

I am using the break-in DVD, keeping my settings low, not watching any black bar programming, etc-- However, one thing really perplexes me.

When I switch inputs, or pull up the menu on the Panny, the menus themselves are still really bright. For example, after I run the break in DVD for a few hours, I need to switch back to my normal cable HDMI input and also put the contrast back up to at least 40% (still low). But when I put on a full black input just to check for any burn-in, I see the IR of the Panasonic menus and notification of " AUX 1 " or " HDMI Input 1 ".

Is this normal? will any kind of bright box on the screen for even 5 seconds cause any problems? And obviously, the Panny menus are always showing up in the same places so I fear burn-in. But is it normal that the phosphor pixels will always have retention for a little while when a bright thing comes up like the menu boxes?

Now Im scared to use the menus and play around with settings cuz in a dark room with a black screen, I can see the " ghosting " of all the menus and pop-ups I was just adjusting. Am I damaging my unit?

Thanks in advance!
Hello

I have a new 42PH9 and i have these settings, cinema, brightness -25 contrast -25 sharpness 0, i've got 100 hours on the screen using fullscreen films only no sky tv with logo's.

I'm also getting IR whenever anything bright white comes on screen even if it's only for 5 secs, it goes away in no time at all BUT it still scares me.

I have a 42PWD6 that has 1000's of hours on it and it never got IR at all, i've had 5 hour gaming sessions on the PWD6 and no retention, it's got to be the new contrast ratio's causing the IR on the new PH9/PX60/PX600?

After 200 hours i'm hoping it will settle down? surly after 1000 we won't get any at all?

I was all set for sending this screen back to be honest with you as i don't want to spend £1400 on a screen i'm scared to use!!!!!

PliggerNease

12-05-06, 11:16 AM

nice

YJBrian

12-05-06, 11:54 AM

LFC FAN

12-05-06, 12:16 PM

nice
whats nice? :confused:

coolgc

12-05-06, 01:19 PM

kluza

12-05-06, 02:32 PM

Each input has its own picture settings. if you want them all set low, you must set them for each input.

Ok, granted. But no matter how low the settings are if I mess with some meuns and also switch to a new input where the Panny tells me which input im on in the upper left side of screen, if I immediately go to an all black screen afterwards, I can still see the ghosting of those menus/dialogs.

I dont see it when I go back to regular TV programming.

Im just wondering if its normal behavior for a plasma to retain any image for a little while that is sharp and bright (like the menus) cuz the phosphers are still a little ' hot ' from those menus. Am I just describing typical ghosting? Or is there something Im missing. Please excuse my ignorance.

thanks

LFC FAN

12-05-06, 02:59 PM

Ok, granted. But no matter how low the settings are if I mess with some meuns and also switch to a new input where the Panny tells me which input im on in the upper left side of screen, if I immediately go to an all black screen afterwards, I can still see the ghosting of those menus/dialogs.

I dont see it when I go back to regular TV programming.

Im just wondering if its normal behavior for a plasma to retain any image for a little while that is sharp and bright (like the menus) cuz the phosphers are still a little ' hot ' from those menus. Am I just describing typical ghosting? Or is there something Im missing. Please excuse my ignorance.

thanks
I'd say it's normal with these new panasonics, on other forums i visit lot's of people are getting the same issues as you and me.

I'm just hoping it gets better with time as even with 100 hours it's getting IR the same as when i 1st turned it on.

dirtfreek

12-05-06, 06:04 PM

Just some past experiences that may help people with their first electronic child. In February I purchased the NEC 50XR5A, which was my first HDTV ever. After extensive research and reading from these forums, I changed my first choice, 50ph8uk, to the NEC. I too was concerned about burn in and much less on the IR. Turned out, the IR was what really got my stress going! To the point that I actually decided to sell it, along with the fact that I bit off more than I could chew at the time. At one point I talked with a technician at NEC about the IR and his response seemed to echo other comments I had read from new plasma owners and previous plasma owners. Due to manufacturers trying to increase the contrast ratios of plasmas, IR has actually become more of a problem, while burn in potential has dropped dramatically. Earlier plasmas had less of this issue, but we're also more prone to burn in. This was good information, but it made be not want to have a plasma anymore or ever.
Then I bought a Sony 34xbr970, amazing tv I must say, but I started to miss the size of my plasma and the laser straight lines. What's amazing is how over time, things I worried about previously started to change due to more research and realizing my original reasons for getting a new tv. If it wasn't for a friend who needed a new tv to play his xbox360 on, I wouldn't be where I am at this moment.
Well I sold the Sony and bought a 50ph9uk. My family thinks I am nuts for buying my third tv in less than a year, but hey, I didn't do this to make money. Now I have the tv I really wanted. I learned a great deal from owning the other, so owning this one is a piece of cake. IR is much less on my Panny over the NEC, but it is still there. I used the break-in dvd for the first 100 hrs. I am currently over 200 and following everything to a T that I have read. After 1000 hrs., I will probably just use it like my last CRT. Schteevie, IamAnoobieCheez, KenTech, etc., I thank you guys for the valued info.
The only bad thing I can say about this tv is that now it has a small nick on the pedestal stand from the fork that slid off my plate of pizza the other night. DOH!!!

Bill McNeal

12-05-06, 06:28 PM

The only bad thing I can say about this tv is that now it has a small nick on the pedestal stand from the fork that slid off my plate of pizza the other night. DOH!!!

Exactly how close are you watching your 50" plasma from?

dirtfreek

12-05-06, 06:33 PM

I was reaching behind the tv to turn on the light I am presently experimenting with for watching movies. Now I do not go near the tv with anything but a clean, soft cloth, or dusting utensil.

Rolando A

12-05-06, 06:47 PM

Hi guys, I am here hoping against hope that all is well.

Here is my story.

Toshiba 65H85 CRT RPTV.

I was watching Superman returns and all of a sudden during the credits I noticed the white lettering got whiter at the edges of the TV. In other words it looked like the lettering on the 4:3 middle portion of the TV was closer to Ivory/(very slightly)yellowish and then bright white once it hits the sides, especially the left side.

So I put in the matrix reloaded and went to the scene where he enters the room where the architect is, to get an all white screen and there it was. Looks like a yellowish band coming down about 4-5 inches thick. it's not very obvious, my wife has not noticed it. But it's definately there.

Could it be anything other than burn in?

trandell

12-05-06, 08:17 PM

Just got my first plasma (PDP-5070) yesterday and I do not have my HD DirecTV gear yet.

I want to watch some shows during the break in period, so I'm wondering if there are disadvantages to running Evangelo2's break-in DVD when I'm not watching TV and flipping over to some SD content for a few hours a day. I see the advantage to a continuous 100+ hour break-in with the DVD, but it's my only TV and I want to enjoy it a bit now.

krappamc

12-06-06, 01:09 AM

I have a viewsonic n2750w LCD HDTV and I have a burn in for playing a damn game for 4-5 hours straight with 4:3 view without stretching it to 16:9.. Is there a way to get rid of burn in on LCD... I mean.. How the hell did I get a burn in in a LCD anyways...? Please help.. It seemed all for plasma.. couldn't find help for LCD.. please!!!!! thank you..

btw.. My brightness and contrast were both at 50..(100 max).

Help.. my warranty expired too. :confused:

kluza

12-06-06, 03:14 AM

LFC FAN

12-06-06, 05:24 AM

I am still trying to figure out this one thing:

Can someone please put on an HD channel with a logo or some basic static images such as NBC HD for about 30 seconds to a minute or so on their plasma with whatever Picture settings they use? Then, leaving the Plasma on, turn off their STB, and turn off the lights in the room. Get close to the Plasma. It should be fully " black " but not " powered-off black " cuz their will be some light emission cuz the set is still on.

Do you see IR of any of the logos or bright static objects on the screen?

Im trying to understand if my Panny 60u is defective cuz it retains images (only visible when screen is black) for about an hour related directly to what was on the screen just before I turn off the STB.

thanks
I've already told you that it seems to be normal with these screens, people at AV-Forums in the uk are seeing the same things as me and YOU!

Last night i was using Karate kid to get more hours on my screen, when he's in that room cutting the bonsai tree there is a bright light on the ceiling that is there for like 40 secs, i turned to a blank input screen in a dark room and guess what? yes you guessed it IR of the light, it went away within seconds but it is happening.

From talking to a few people with the same screen it seem the new contrast ratio is to blame and something we will just have to deal with, you can either live with it or send it back.

HTH :)

tlak

12-06-06, 09:10 AM

Folks,

I just created the Burn-In DVD (on a DVD-R) last night using the Nero image. When I play it on my Toshiba DVD player (connected to my Panny 50PX60U with component) the following happens:

1) It displays a all white screen but with black bars on top & bottom UNLESS I change the Aspect to ZOOM. Shouldn't the screen be changing colors with this Burn-IN DVD? Has anyone else been able to see all color screen without zooming?

2) The timer count on the DVD player display changes in a wierd manner, as if it is playing chapters of unequal lenghts (28 sec, 1:03 min, 58 sec etc.) and it also stops that timer count at times asif the DVD was stuck and trying to read but then resumes it self. I can't really tell it if skips or gets stuck because the screen is always ALL WHITE!!
Is it normal for this DVD to have even chapters? Did I do something wrong?

The plasma has the Ver 1.25 firmware and picture settings are at:
Mode: Standard
Picture: 0
Brightness: 0
Color: -6
Tint: -4
Sharpness: -20
Color Temp: Normal
Black Level: Light

I would appreciate if anyone can help me with this so I can properly burin-in my plasma!!

THANK YOU!!

I would check dvd first, did you watch it on the different tv or even on the PC. I had no problems with DVD at all (it should change collors and loop itself). Can you watch regular dvd with the move? Maybe your connection to the tv set is not right. I have progressive dvd player and to change settings on the dvd player I had to connect it to tv via s-video (so I can see settings menu) change dvd player output to progressive and connect via componnet to tv (changing dvd player to progressive disabled s-video RCA output on my dvd - only component works). Check your dvd than dvd player connection. ;)

WilliamR

12-06-06, 09:15 AM

I am still trying to figure out this one thing:

Can someone please put on an HD channel with a logo or some basic static images such as NBC HD for about 30 seconds to a minute or so on their plasma with whatever Picture settings they use? Then, leaving the Plasma on, turn off their STB, and turn off the lights in the room. Get close to the Plasma. It should be fully " black " but not " powered-off black " cuz their will be some light emission cuz the set is still on.

Do you see IR of any of the logos or bright static objects on the screen?

Im trying to understand if my Panny 60u is defective cuz it retains images (only visible when screen is black) for about an hour related directly to what was on the screen just before I turn off the STB.

thanks

I don't have a Panny but I have the new Pioneer. I've tried this, on no input the entire screen is black, uniformly so. I also put in movies with a lot of white (ice age, Eight Below) and I tried the break in DVD since the first part is all white. Uniformly white.

rcbtaw

12-06-06, 01:05 PM

greggsand

12-06-06, 02:21 PM

I've already told you that it seems to be normal with these screens, people at AV-Forums in the uk are seeing the same things as me and YOU!

Last night i was using Karate kid to get more hours on my screen, when he's in that room cutting the bonsai tree there is a bright light on the ceiling that is there for like 40 secs, i turned to a blank input screen in a dark room and guess what? yes you guessed it IR of the light, it went away within seconds but it is happening.

From talking to a few people with the same screen it seem the new contrast ratio is to blame and something we will just have to deal with, you can either live with it or send it back.

HTH :)

Do the above with your old tube TV and you'll see the same thing. IR is not Burn-in...

WilliamR

12-06-06, 02:29 PM

I can't get the anti burn in DVD to play. My DVD player doesn't play SVCDs, and I don't have a DVD burner.

Do you all think I could get an aquarium dvd screen saver and play that for the first 100 hour break in period?

If not that, what can I use for the breaking in process?

Thanks,

Discovery HD, 24 hours of HD programming, no logos, excellent source for break in/removing IR.

bradandbree

12-06-06, 03:34 PM

Discovery HD, 24 hours of HD programming, no logos, excellent source for break in/removing IR.

I agree with the choice of Discovery HD with one potential warning. I can't speak for DirecTV, and I really doubt this is an issue with cable, but my Dish receiver is set to shut itself down at 3:00 AM every day to receive updates and current program guides. This can be disabled, but is enabled by default. So if you are hoping to let your TV run programming all night, first verify that you don't have something like this going on, or your screen will go black at 3:00 and totally defeat the purpose. :)

bulbasquirtle

12-06-06, 09:46 PM

Can I use a music visualize to break in my plasma?

greggsand

12-06-06, 11:05 PM

Can I use a music visualize to break in my plasma?

Of course, I used my 360 viz like crazy 'back in the day' (looks cool too!)

cuzzin

12-07-06, 12:12 AM

I own a Pioneer PDP-4360HD plasma and have been noticing some early signs of what appears to be burn-in. I have only had my set for about six months and I am very careful with how I watch my set in order to avoid burn-in. The thing is, what's burning in is not even something that's up on the screen for a long period of time: it's the channel guide that my cable provider (TWC) provides. I first noticed it actually when the screen was completely off. It was dark out, I had my lamp on, and when I looked at the screen from an angle where the light reflected off the screen, I saw lines across the screen. They were very faint and, as I said, could really only be seen against the glare of the light. I didn't know what it was at first, but then I realized that it might be the lines from the channel guide. My suspicions proved right; I matched up the lines to the bars on the channel guide and they were in the exact same place. How does this happen? I go through all the trouble to avoid this type of problem. I have readjusted my brightness/contrast settings, I hardly ever watch 4:3 unstretched, and something that isn't even shown on the screen for 30 seconds at a time is showing signs of burn-in. I really could not notice these lines when the screen was actually turned on (unless I had my lamp on and it was displaying a dark image), but now, if I look for it hard enough, I am seeing traces of these lines, mostly when the picture is dark and grainy. To give you an idea of how it looks, in the off mode, when looking with the assistance of the light glare, the lines appear a different shade of black than the rest of the screen, almost kind of purplish. Tonight, because I was actively looking for any signs of these lines, I noticed them while watching a DVD. As I said, during brighter scenes, it's not so noticeable, but when the picture was darker and granier, they are pretty easy to make out if you know where to look. I REALLY don't want this to progress any further, but what can I do? How the hell does the channel guide of all things pose the biggest threat to my screen? Not logos, not black bars, the freaking channel guide! I did not pay $4000 for this set only to have it deteriorate now. What can I do here? Anyone who can provide guidance, I'd appreciate it.

Schteevie

12-07-06, 12:28 AM

Discovery HD, 24 hours of HD programming, no logos, excellent source for break in/removing IR.

There IS a logo water mark on discoveryHD 90% of the time (It is now much more opaque then it used to be, so it is better, but still not good for a break-in)

So, this isn't a good idea unless you zoom it way in so the logo is off the screen.

WilliamR

12-07-06, 08:22 AM

There IS a logo water mark on discoveryHD 90% of the time (It is now much more opaque then it used to be, so it is better, but still not good for a break-in)

So, this isn't a good idea unless you zoom it way in so the logo is off the screen.

There is no logo on my discovery HD, we watch it every day for hours, I've never seen a logo anywhere on the screen, not even faintly.

tlak

12-07-06, 12:18 PM

Equator HD is good choice too :)

Doug_Eldred

12-07-06, 12:22 PM

I can't get the anti burn in DVD to play. My DVD player doesn't play SVCDs, and I don't have a DVD burner.

Do you all think I could get an aquarium dvd screen saver and play that for the first 100 hour break in period?

If not that, what can I use for the breaking in process?

Thanks,
If you have a Mac or PC that can be connected to the TV, download the image, open it, and point your DVD player app at it. That's what I did, mostly to avoid running a DVD drive for that many total hours, many hours at a time.

Doug

Doug_Eldred

12-07-06, 12:23 PM

There is no logo on my discovery HD, we watch it every day for hours, I've never seen a logo anywhere on the screen, not even faintly.
It's hard to believe that DHD is as variable as recent posts claim! I see an occasional, brief logo, or "identifier", in the lower right area of the screen, but most of the time there's none, just the picture itself.

Doug

DReilly1

12-07-06, 12:29 PM

It's hard to believe that DHD is as variable as recent posts claim! I see an occasional, brief logo, or "identifier", in the lower right area of the screen, but most of the time there's none, just the picture itself.

Doug

I have been watching that channel a bit lately on my old CRT in preparation for my Pioneer 5070 that I am getting this weekend.

I can tell you in the North burbs of Chicago through Comcast, at times for just a few minutes, a nearly transparent logo does pop up from time to time.

From what I have heard so far, it is so faint and not a bright color, I doubt it would be an IR issue.

Cool name by the way Doug.

Doug

Doug_Eldred

12-07-06, 12:46 PM

There IS a logo water mark on discoveryHD 90% of the time (It is now much more opaque then it used to be, so it is better, but still not good for a break-in)

So, this isn't a good idea unless you zoom it way in so the logo is off the screen.
Mine is mostly transparent, not opaque, and rare, nowhere near 90%. Weird that this stuff varies so much!

Doug

guru76

12-07-06, 01:18 PM

Wait, doesn't a transparent logo reduce the risk of burn-in as compared to an opaque logo? With a transparent logo you don't have the same color always displaying at that point.

There IS a logo water mark on discoveryHD 90% of the time (It is now much more opaque then it used to be, so it is better, but still not good for a break-in)

So, this isn't a good idea unless you zoom it way in so the logo is off the screen.

Schteevie

12-07-06, 01:51 PM

Wait, doesn't a transparent logo reduce the risk of burn-in as compared to an opaque logo? With a transparent logo you don't have the same color always displaying at that point.

I guess I am confused about the meaning of opaque.
I think of it in terms of "opacity" in photoshop - as you slide the percentage of opacity closer to zero, the image becomes more transparent.

Anyway - yes, the DiscoveryHD logo is very transparent, (more so now then it was a few months ago) But despite it changing slightly as the colours underneath it show through, it is still fundamentally static compared to an entirely changing image.
The logo is there for all Discovery productions, so that is close to 90% of the time in my observation.

Schteevie

12-07-06, 01:52 PM

There is no logo on my discovery HD, we watch it every day for hours, I've never seen a logo anywhere on the screen, not even faintly.

Then you have your screen zoomed in or cropped, because DiscoveryHD has a water marked logo tthat is almost always there in the lower right corner.

Doug_Eldred

12-07-06, 01:59 PM

Not for some of us. It shows up, occasionally and briefly, but nowhere near 90%.

We ARE all talking about the "Discovery HD Theater", right?

Schteevie

12-07-06, 02:00 PM

Not for some of us. It shows up, occasionally and briefly, but nowhere near 90%.

How is that possible?
Is it an American vs. Canadian thing?

Doug_Eldred

12-07-06, 02:01 PM

Could be.

Schteevie

12-07-06, 02:04 PM

Not for some of us. It shows up, occasionally and briefly, but nowhere near 90%.

We ARE all talking about the "Discovery HD Theater", right?

Is that a different channel then "DicoveryHD"?
if it is then we are talking about two different channels.

Doug_Eldred

12-07-06, 02:08 PM

All I can say is that on my Comcast I get the original SD "Discovery Channel", which may or may not have a logo, and "Discovery HD Theater", which does not (most of the time).

Take a look at www.discoverychannel.com, look at the program info, and use the menu to select "Discovery Channel" versus "Discovery HD Theater" and compare that with what you're getting (they're not simulcast). Of course, neither may match what you get - from your signature it wasn't obvious that you weren't in the US.

Doug

Schteevie

12-07-06, 02:13 PM

I just confirmed my listings with the dicovery.com web site, and it is true that Canadian "Discovery HD" is different then both the discovery Channel SD and "Discovery HD Theater" listings.
- so these are infact all different channels.

Doug_Eldred

12-07-06, 02:13 PM

The schedules at www.discoverychannel.com and www.discoverychannel.ca certainly suggest that the US and Canadian content varies significantly.

WilliamR

12-07-06, 03:37 PM

I guess I am confused about the meaning of opaque.
I think of it in terms of "opacity" in photoshop - as you slide the percentage of opacity closer to zero, the image becomes more transparent.

Anyway - yes, the DiscoveryHD logo is very transparent, (more so now then it was a few months ago) But despite it changing slightly as the colours underneath it show through, it is still fundamentally static compared to an entirely changing image.
The logo is there for all Discovery productions, so that is close to 90% of the time in my observation.

WOW, not on mine, how is that possible, wouldn't it have to be there if someone else has it, I mean its not city specific or something? Just had my wife checked, she watched it for the last few hours today and she said there is nothing in there, haven't been. This is weird.

Doug_Eldred

12-07-06, 03:55 PM

It sounds like Canadian "Discovery HD" is completely different from either US "Discovery Channel" or "Discovery HD Theater".

Doug

Doug_Eldred

12-07-06, 05:56 PM

Just to close the terminology gap, I think effectively "opaque" equals "100% opacity" in Photoshop, and "transparent" equals "0% opacity". You can see through transparent, it's invisible, while opaque completely blocks whatever is "beneath".

Doug

DVD Freaky

12-08-06, 09:11 PM

I was planning on buying the 42" Panasonic. Thanks to a lot of research on this forum I'm going with LCD. I know the Plasmas are very nice but not for me. I will be watching a lot of 4:3 and 2:35 movies. To me, stretching and zooming a picture to avoid burn in defeats the purposes of the nice picture a plasma provides

I would tend to agree with that. Plenty of great looking movies on HD-DVD...and few of them take up the whole screen. It seems silly to have to worry about those bars burning in...simply when watching a letterbox movie!

I have a 2-week old Samsung 46" LCD that I WAS going to possibly exchange for a plasma....not too satisfied with the LCD's black levels and there's also a little bit of backlight white cloudiness, somewhat noticeable when the screen goes totally dark in between commercials, etc. But the thought of paying good money for a plasma tv and risking burn-in which may or may not be permanent....that's just too much. I do play plenty of video games also and so....why risk it?

It's a shame cause the plasma has a richer picture than LCD....but for a heavy gamer and HD movie fan...I think LCD is probably the safer choice.

Jaxxon

12-09-06, 01:48 PM

Welp, I'm just about through with my first 100 hour "break-in" period. Everything seems to have gone fine. I do notice some bars on the side every now and then, but I haven't really watched any 4:3 with the bars at all, so I'm guessing it's a problem on the station, or maybe just with how the Panasonic displays the images or something. It's pretty hard to notice, and it's not really there on color screens, or all black screens (I haven't found an all white channel to test it out there). But like I said, I'm not worried about it, since I know I haven't been watching anything that has bars like that to burn-in.

I plan to still be careful with it, but I'm gonna bump all the settings up +5 or so. I was the one that put picture/brightness/sharpness to -15, so I'll take em up to -10, maybe even -5. There are still some issues with IR every now and then, but I've almost gotten to the point where I treat it like my old CRT now. Early on IR was happening a lot and I was worried I was gonna get burn-in, but lately it doesn't happen all that often, and when it does it fades fast. I still won't leave it on a site with a ticker for that long, but that's about all the babying I do with it now. I haven't worried about leaving it on channels with mostly transparent logos, and lately I haven't even worried about leaving it on channels with full-color logos (IE, VH1).

Overall, I'm really pleased with the set. The break-in period went much smoother than I thought. So far at least, all the worry about burn-in and such has seemed to be all hype. I'll let everyone know how it goes when I start treating it completely like a "normal" set, and playing games on it, and leaving it on channels like ESPN or CNN for a couple hours at a time.

chrisgreen

12-09-06, 03:58 PM

Schteevie

12-10-06, 12:24 PM

I started thinking about the current plasma break in CD/DVD which displays various colors in various intensities, one at a time. While this is probably just fine I didn't want to limit the colors displayed to just the solid shades selected.

I put together something very similar but the RGB colors constantly fade into one another producing an infinite number of shades and intensities.

Like I said before, I doubt this method is any better but it definitely displays an enormous variety of hue, saturation, and luminance during the break in period.

The DVD iso is a standard 480p DVD which constantly fades between Red, Green, Blue, Black, and White and hues produced by mixing those colors. The DVD runs 60 mins and should auto repeat. The zip file is 45MB expanding to a 1.8Gig iso file.

I'm currently hosting the DVD .iso image at the link below:

http://www.imagebuff.com/plasma/PlasmaBreakIn-DVD.zip

Let me know if it works well for you. I am currently breaking in a new HP PL4260N plasma display with this method.

Thanks,
Chris Green

Your theory is good, but you are over thinking it.

There are only three "sub-pixels" per pixel:
Red Green Blue
The break in DVD works them individually at variuos brightnesses, and then all together when displaying white.
Theoretically - you could just run solid white all day long to break in your plasma, but nobody knows if a plasma can handle having ALL pixels on at full brightness for a long perriod of time - other components in the display could over heat.

So, by breaking in each sub-pixel seperately, you allow the other two to cool down.
ie: when RED is on, Green and Blue are OFF, so they are getting a break.

The other potential problem with your theory, is that by mixing a wide spectrum of colours, it is not precisely breaking in each sub-pixel with the same amount of "ON" time.
for instance - how much red, green and blue does it take to make "purple"?
I don't know, but I suspect there is more red and blue then green being used... Do you see my point?

Doug_Eldred

12-10-06, 02:43 PM

Actually, my plasma TV warns against using the built-in "white clean mode" (I forget the exact term) as shortening panel life if done too often.

Thomas J. Coyle

12-10-06, 03:33 PM

Hi all,

Just purchased a Panasonic TH-4250PX6U from Costco and have just started the 100 hr burn-in process.

I have set all of the picture controls to "0" except for sharpness which I have set to "-15" and have the picture mode on "Standard".

I have searched this thread to see if there are any recommended "standard" picture settings for burning-in this Panasonic model, but could not find anything definitive.

Can anyone here point me to the correct burin-in picture control values?

Regards,
TCIII

chrisgreen

12-10-06, 04:17 PM

Your theory is good, but you are over thinking it.

There are only three "sub-pixels" per pixel:
Red Green Blue
The break in DVD works them individually at variuos brightnesses, and then all together when displaying white.
Theoretically - you could just run solid white all day long to break in your plasma, but nobody knows if a plasma can handle having ALL pixels on at full brightness for a long perriod of time - other components in the display could over heat.

So, by breaking in each sub-pixel seperately, you allow the other two to cool down.
ie: when RED is on, Green and Blue are OFF, so they are getting a break.

The other potential problem with your theory, is that by mixing a wide spectrum of colours, it is not precisely breaking in each sub-pixel with the same amount of "ON" time.
for instance - how much red, green and blue does it take to make "purple"?
I don't know, but I suspect there is more red and blue then green being used... Do you see my point?

Somewhat. I've never heard any theories on "resting" red, green, blue pixels intermittently. Based on that it may take 600 hours to break the TV in (200 for each color). I kind of doubt there is anything to this.

I am mixing proportions of red green and blue that mix very proportionally over time. I made sure I ran each color mixed against each other in order from 0 to 255. Each RGB component should be exercised very evenly. RGB values were used in a very calculated way.

Another problem with simply displaying Red then Green then Blue is that you are assuming the Plasma TV's red pixels correspond directly with the Red color on the DVD (as with other colors). Given the factory color bias and user adjustments I doubt just the red pixels light up but rather a subtle mix of all three color pixel colors are used to present the DVD's red to the screen. This would suggest that using the primary's in a constant mix would lead to a more even break in than each primary individually.

Final Note: It's fun to conversate and nitpik about this but I doubt it matters in the end. Use either method. I'm betting both will work fine.

Thanks,
Chris

lcd or plasma?

12-10-06, 05:48 PM

I set up my own break in DVD as well for my Panasonic TH-4250PX6U from Costco. I don't know if any break in settings by the way. What I am noticing though is flutters and fluctuations in the brightness. I am going from white to R over 5 minutes, white to G over the next five, etc. I was very suprised to see a quick fluttering of brightness, along with a subtle "noise" in constant motion. I do not see any of this watching normal tv, but it very much suprised me, and made me wonder wether the internal electronics will show more serious problems later. Why wouldn't the color look perfectly stable?

Thanks.

On checking my video it appears that the brightness fluctuations were actually in my video. Strange but it must be the compression method I used. I'll try again. I'm sure I don't need a perfect video, it's just nice to know it wasn't my tv.

dwenglis

12-10-06, 07:52 PM

darkhab

12-11-06, 03:48 AM

Actually, my plasma TV warns against using the built-in "white clean mode" (I forget the exact term) as shortening panel life if done too often.

Hitachi calls it "wipe mode"

optivity

12-11-06, 07:59 AM

Actually, my plasma TV warns against using the built-in "white clean mode" (I forget the exact term) as shortening panel life if done too often.Exactly, one should make judicious use of this procedure & only as a last resort to mitigate the effects of "severe" image retention.

Tweakophyte

12-11-06, 09:16 AM

Hi-

I've had a Panny 50" 60U model for about 4 weeks. I used the break-in DVD overnight a few times... and Noggin for a big chunk of it, too to get through the first 100 hours. We've already had what I feared... the menu of a DVD left on for more than a few minutes. There were no issues. I am convinced you need to turn down your brightness and contrast settings ASAP.

One time I went into the service menu to check something and in that short time had a tiny bit of image retention. It went away within a few minutes. I am betting the contrast and brightness are autmatically on torch mode in the service menu.

We are loving this plasma!

Doug_Eldred

12-11-06, 09:23 AM

my first plasma arrives on thursday. i don't have a dvd burner so I can't burn the break-in dvd. does anyone recomend any dvds available online. here are some sites i found screendreamsdvd and vat19 and ambient videoes has some dvd screen savers as well. sorry i couldn't bring myself to search through 79 pages in this thread to find where someone else asked this same question.
What I did, to save the DVD drive, was to download the image file, open it, and then point the DVD Player app at it. I actually did burn the DVD, too, but haven't actually used it.

optivity

12-11-06, 09:27 AM

Panasonic up'ed the contrast ratio for the 60/600Us. The picture setting for Panasonic PDPs is "vivid" right out-of-the box. The first thing an owner of a new PDP should do is lower the contrast, brightness and sharpness settings to insure the phosphors do not run too hot when brand new.

I've got more than 1500 hours on my 50PX50U, which has a much lower contrast ratio specification, and I've got my PDP set to standard, w/picture at +13, birghtness set to +1 and sharpness at 0.

No burn-in, no image retention.

Nate7357

12-11-06, 03:31 PM

dirtfreek

12-11-06, 06:17 PM

I just purchased a Panasonic TH37PX60U and a Panasonic TH58PX60U. Im intrusted in using the break in disk to break in my plasmas. I had 2 queshtions:

1. How long do i need to run these break in DVD'S for to break in my sets.

2. Do i let the disk rn continuously or take breaks before restarting the disk again ?

For my Panny 50PH9UK,

1. I ran mine four days plus four hours to get to the 100hr mark.

2. I let the dvd run continuously, except for when I was watching regular tv, then I would restart it. I forget how many chapters are on the dvd, but I believe it can run up to a full day. Just don't go out of town and you should be fine.

zul

12-12-06, 12:52 PM

After reading all 79 pages I have gleamed the following info:

No one has "burn in" as in the pixels are shot and there just isn't any color of that color left. There was a shot of what that looks like in the beginning of this thread if you want to look at it. The screen kind of looked like if you painted something and the paint was flaking off.

Now Most people have some form of image retention (some severe). This seems to be more prevalent on the newer sets from having higher contrast than on the older sets. Over time it seems that Image retention is less of a problem after the 1000 hour mark. This may be due to the fact that some people say that the phosphors run hotter when they are new.

So what is image retention. It is like a slight after image of what was on the screen previously. WARNING do not do the following unless you really want to see image retention on your screen (on newer plasmas, at least this is what I do). The best way to view image retention is at night. Put your TV on an input that does not have a signal and so your screen is a dark grey (almost black). Turn off all the lights. Get within 1 foot of your screen and you will most likely see slightly off black discolorations that are in the shape of TV logos, game score boards, anything that was on your screen for a while. Yesterday I saw a really large logo, it took me a while to figure out what it said, but eventually I was able to make out "The Bold and the Beautiful". That's on sometime during the day, and must be a really bright and obnoxiously bold logo for me to read it 8 hours later. I also could read the E television logo.

In 2004 Panasonic didn't outright say in their white paper that you should break in your plasma but they did point out that some videophiles say you should do it for 100 hours up to 1000 hours. Either they really don't know, or they do know but won't admit to it because of their lawyers advice, probably the later.

Some people have had problems with break in DVD's. The most common problem is that the DVD eventually has issues and skips or stutters and gets stuck on a single image, no the chances are small but why take that chance. Others have recommended watching the discovery channel in HD, on certain cable boxes, the box will eventually go to a static screen where it says press any key to watch TV. I think this issue has to do with DVR's in that it pauses the hard drive after a while if no one has pressed the remote and doesn't know to start the hard drive back up to pause live TV unless you press some key on the remote. So in short its not really totally safe to leave your TV unattended while on some kind of breakin media. If you really must do it, I would recommend setting your sleep timer on your TV to whatever its maximum is so that eventually it turns off.

Can you game on a plasma? Some people say yes some people say no. (DISCLAIMER: I'm just a normal guy but this is what I have found) I say it depends on the game you are playing and what brightness levels you have your plasma TV set to. Any static images are going to leave image retention on your display. WHITE static images are the worse. Let me tell you my story...

I bought the panny 60u on black friday. I set everything to 0 except for picture which I left at +10. I put about 50 hours on it before I couldn't take it anymore and connected the xbox360. I played a few games in rapid succession because I wanted to see what they all looked like. I didn't see any image retention, but at this time it was the day and I didn't really know what to look for and I was about 6 feet away from the screen. Finally I started playing Dead rising and lost track of time and played for a couple of hours. So I am ready to go to bed and turn off the lights and then the XBOX360 and there I see it, "KILLED" easily readable with no signal. I curse to myself, I think to my self, damn, that was only 2 hours. I decide to check my settings and its on VIVID! I say !%*#!? that's when I learn that the panny 60u defaults to vivid on all inputs until you change it. My saving grace was that I had changed the vivid settings to +20 picture and +15 sharpness (the same as default standard settings).

So I set it to full screen and have it on for about 8 hours (note: back to +10 picture, 0 everything else) I check it at night, and I don't think it has changed at all. So I read some of this thread, and someone mentions try using the "snow job" method for someone else's problem. That's when I think to myself if the damage was done at a higher setting it might take forever for them to get erased at lower settings. So I reset my settings to default standard (+20 picture +15 sharpness) and turned off my hdmi input and then switch inputs and then switch back to hdmi and get snow (Not sure how you would get snow on your particular TV but this is how I got it on mine; I think there is also a setting in the menu that will let you do it by not automatically shutting off the signal if you get snow) I run it for about 30 mins that way and then switch to a black signal and it seems that it is about half faded. I put it back on snow and put it on a timer for an hour and leave the house. When I get back I check it and its gone :D.

DISCLAIMER: I don't know if setting your plasma TV on a snow channel for extended periods of time is a bad thing or not.

So I read all 79 pages of this thread to see if anyone has mentioned this solution for image retention or not, and although it has been suggested no one has said that the snow thing worked for them. So it worked for me and still does work for me.

So at least for me for gaming. This is what I do. I watch normal TV at +10 picture, I game at -10 picture -10 sharpness (I might change the picture to a little higher because it is hard to see in dark scenes) I still get image retention but not that bad. After about 3 hours of gaming on one game, I stop and then either play another game, or I set it to standard defaults and let the snow job run on a sleep timer for 30 minutes. This usually takes care of the most of the image retention, I have had to run it for an hour again once but only because it was still only barely there but I wanted to make sure it was totally erased.

I hope that eventually the image retention problem will lessen and I won't have to do this, but as I do like to occasionally game, I guess I will have to live with this solution.

So there is my 2cents, If you do use the snow job method to get rid of image retention please make a post here and let us know the details, thanks.

Doug_Eldred

12-12-06, 12:58 PM

My TV specifically says that overuse of its "whiteout" will decrease panel life. YMMV.

avjeff

12-12-06, 05:53 PM

I bought the panny 60u on black friday. I set everything to 0 except for picture which I left at +10. I put about 50 hours on it before I couldn't take it anymore and connected the xbox360.

Fifty hours isn't long enough of a break-in period. +10 for Picture is way too high, it should be at 0 or less. I broke my 50PX60U at 0 Picture and +5 Brightness for 180 hours. Not that any of it matters, because if you are going to be using it for your XBox 360, no amount of break-in or caution with your settings will save your set from burn-in. It's going to happen sooner or later. Plasmas are not a good choice for anything but very occasional gaming. Now if you will excuse me I have to start climbing down off this soap box.

drivie

12-12-06, 09:30 PM

I searched for answers but came up short. A friend of mine has a Vizio 32" LCD (I believe it's a L32HDTV10A) and she uses it in a storefront to run a demo loop. Today we popped in another DVD and noticed that there was what appeared to be very bad image burn-in from the previous DVD. Is that even possible on an LCD? I was under the impression that you could not burn an image into an LCD.

At any rate, I'm wondering if there's any way that we can get rid of this image retention and if not, do you think this might be covered under warranty since the display is less than a year old. We did attempt to run another DVD without static images for about 10-15 mins but there was absolutely no change.

Thank you for your time and assistance,

Drivie

XboxEboy

12-12-06, 09:35 PM

Fifty hours isn't long enough of a break-in period. +10 for Picture is way too high, it should be at 0 or less. I broke my 50PX60U at 0 Picture and +5 Brightness for 180 hours. Not that any of it matters, because if you are going to be using it for your XBox 360, no amount of break-in or caution with your settings will save your set from burn-in. It's going to happen sooner or later. Plasmas are not a good choice for anything but very occasional gaming. Now if you will excuse me I have to start climbing down off this soap box.

Well I just bought a 50inch Panny yesterday (60u) and will be using it a LOT for gaming and movies. I will do the 100-hour break-in before I do either, but I DO intend to both game and watch letterboxed movies. I feel you are wrong in terms of gaming. Like watching movies, as long as it isn't the majority or even half the time your plasma is used, you are fine to do so as you will.

Honestly. I'm not going to spend over 2K on a tv and not use it how I really want. Plasmas are the BEST flat panels for both movies and games in terms of visual quality. At moderation, they will more than handle both methods of entertainment without consequence.

bradandbree

12-12-06, 10:01 PM

Well I just bought a 50inch Panny yesterday (60u) and will be using it a LOT for gaming and movies. I will do the 100-hour break-in before I do either, but I DO intend to both game and watch letterboxed movies. I feel you are wrong in terms of gaming. Like watching movies, as long as it isn't the majority or even half the time your plasma is used, you are fine to do so as you will.

Honestly. I'm not going to spend over 2K on a tv and not use it how I really want. Plasmas are the BEST flat panels for both movies and games in terms of visual quality. At moderation, they will more than handle both methods of entertainment without consequence.

Just out of rhetorical curiosity, how many movies have you watched (letterboxed or otherwise) that have a bright white status bar in the corner for the entire two hours?

Nobody can tell you what to do or not do with your purchase, but don't kid yourself that gaming is the same as movies.

dr0s

12-12-06, 10:18 PM

drivie

12-12-06, 10:20 PM

Thanks DR. Yeah, I was extremely surprised with the image remained while we played another DVD. I'm hoping that there is no permenant damage.

We'll give it a try and I'll report back.

Drivie

hidefLoans

12-12-06, 10:30 PM

Fifty hours isn't long enough of a break-in period. +10 for Picture is way too high, it should be at 0 or less. I broke my 50PX60U at 0 Picture and +5 Brightness for 180 hours. Not that any of it matters, because if you are going to be using it for your XBox 360, no amount of break-in or caution with your settings will save your set from burn-in. It's going to happen sooner or later. Plasmas are not a good choice for anything but very occasional gaming. Now if you will excuse me I have to start climbing down off this soap box.

Just because you broke in your set at 0 and didnt get burn in doesnt mean someone who broke it in at anything higher will get burn-in. Panasonic's recommendation of 0 is very conservative, however playing extended periods of time with under 100 hours of break in time is pretty risky. It most likely will not result in burn in if you are careful and take appropriate breaks - letting the phosphors discharge the image retention by watching full screen content.

If you are careful and dont get burn in within your first 1500 hours of usage while gaming with appropriate breaks you will most likely not get burn in from gaming. After 1500 hours you are most likely only going to get burnin from accidentally leaving something on - theres just as much of a chance it will be a game or a movie menu.

OreoJoe

12-12-06, 10:39 PM

This is from Apple. You could try if others methods don't work. [emphasis added]

With some Apple LCD displays, if you leave an unchanging image (like a login screen or the same desktop picture) on the screen for a long period of time, you may see a faint remnant of the image even after a new image has replaced it. This is called "persistence".

You can prevent image persistence by using the Energy Saver sleep feature to turn off the display when it is not in use, or by using the Screen Saver to make sure that a static image isn't on the display for long periods of time.The Energy Saver sleep feature is very useful because the backlight bulbs are turned off during periods of inactivity, which may prolong their useful life.
In the rare event that an image does become persistent, you can usually get rid of it by following these steps:

Temporarily set the Energy Saver sleep setting to 'never sleep'.

Display an all-white pattern across the entire display for the same amount of time that the persistent image had been displayed on the screen. To do this:

Create an all-white screen in a graphics application such as AppleWorks or Photoshop, and save it as a JPEG file.

Use this as the image displayed by the screen saver.

Turn the display brightness down (but not off) to preserve backlight bulb life.

Verify that the persistent image is gone.

If necessary, repeat the process until the persistent image is gone.

Restore the Energy Saver settings.

drivie

12-12-06, 10:44 PM

OreoJoe,

Thank you for the additional info. We will try a few things and report back.

Drivie

XboxEboy

12-13-06, 10:10 AM

Just out of rhetorical curiosity, how many movies have you watched (letterboxed or otherwise) that have a bright white status bar in the corner for the entire two hours?

Nobody can tell you what to do or not do with your purchase, but don't kid yourself that gaming is the same as movies.

For one: A lot of games I play on the 360 don't have HUDs. Fight Night is a good example.
Also, a status bar is simple to black letterbox...both are permanent color stamps for a duration of time. But I'm not here to argue....

GnatGoSplat

12-13-06, 12:48 PM

Burn-in is not possible, as there are no phosphors to burn. You are seeing image retention, which should go away after a while. I'm surprised it didn't disappear after playing the other movie. However, it should certainly disappear if you unplug the set for 48 hours. - DR

That's not exactly true.
Permanent image retention equivalent to burn-in is possible, although unlikely and uncommon.
Over time, UV from the backlight and possibly even external sources can cause slight yellow/brownish fading of some of the LCD's plastic polarizing layers. A static image will cause this fading to occur unevenly.

There is a Panasonic warranty document floating around that mentions this very possibility.

markrubin

12-13-06, 12:58 PM

That's not exactly true.
Permanent image retention equivalent to burn-in is possible, although unlikely and uncommon.
Over time, UV from the backlight and possibly even external sources can cause slight yellow/brownish fading of some of the LCD's plastic polarizing layers. A static image will cause this fading to occur unevenly.

LCD burn-in is Definitely possible: Alan Gouger (forum administrator) and myself had Sharp LC-30 series LCD's that exhibited permanent burn-in: Sharp replaced mine even though it was out of warranty

Dell had several Dimension portables with Samsung LCD panels that burned-in

It is unlikely and uncommon, but it is possible

guru76

12-13-06, 01:28 PM

I had a Samsung LCD monitor which had burn-in after about a year of use.

greggsand

12-13-06, 01:35 PM

For one: A lot of games I play on the 360 don't have HUDs. Fight Night is a good example.
Also, a status bar is simple to black letterbox...both are permanent color stamps for a duration of time. But I'm not here to argue....

I posted some plasma friendly games a few pages back, some good ones:

- NHL2k7
- Fight Night
- Tiger Woods

uh a bunch I forgot now....

dr0s

12-13-06, 04:25 PM

That's not exactly true.
Permanent image retention equivalent to burn-in is possible, although unlikely and uncommon. I'm not sure how this is different from what I said:-) Burn-in and image-retention are different phenomena that do share some symptoms, but the difference is important when considering treatments.
Incidentally, IMO there is little excuse for permanent retention of the type you and Mark refer to other than greed on the part of the LCD manufacturers, as it is mainly a matter of quality of the plastics in the panel. Ditto for the problem of some LCDs yellowing over time. Upgrading these parts would produce only a marginal increase in the overall cost of the set. - DR

GnatGoSplat

12-13-06, 04:39 PM

I'm not sure how this is different from what I said:-) Burn-in and image-retention are different phenomena that do share some symptoms, but the difference is important when considering treatments.
Incidentally, IMO there is little excuse for permanent retention of the type you and Mark refer to other than greed on the part of the LCD manufacturers, as it is mainly a matter of quality of the plastics in the panel. Ditto for the problem of some LCDs yellowing over time. Upgrading these parts would produce only a marginal increase in the overall cost of the set. - DR

I think the difference is that image retention is curable and will fix itself over time where as the "burn-in" caused by UV yellowing of plastic layers is permanent with no recourse for repair short of replacing the panel.

I agree that a quality panel should never yellow over time, and maybe the latest and greatest ones don't. However, with more super low-cost LCDs coming from China, I think it's a strong possibility that not all LCDs will have the same level of UV resistance. The manufacturer is probably willing to cut a few cents here and there to save what would cumulatively end up being millions of dollars. They probably figure under normal conditions the fading won't occur until long after the panel's useful life (or end of warranty period for all they care).

It kind of makes me think of the automotive industry. Ever noticed how many cars just a couple years old have yellowed, dull headlamps? They've been making cars with composite plastic headlamps since the 80's, yet that's one problem they still haven't fixed!

dr0s

12-14-06, 12:07 AM

In any event, drivie's problem should be very short-lived, as it is not due to UV damage. Hopefully he will report back if/when the problem is solved. - DR

s2mikey

12-14-06, 10:53 AM

Whew... I read through most of this thread. Lots of good info. So then.... if I may get an answer:

I just set up my Panny 42PX60U last night and have been running mostly Discovery HD the whole time to get it broken in. Everything is ZEROED out and the options are all off. I have the set running today all day with the wife keeping an eye on things and doing an occasional channel switch to HDnet or HD movies just to change it up. NO 4:3 content whatsoever and NO channels with permamnent logos for now either.

Two questions:

- Is running the set pretty much all day long on Discovery HD a good break-in and is running it all day too long? Should I have the wife shut it off after 4-5 hours for a little break?

- By this Sunday when I have about 40-50 hours on it will it be OK to watch a Star Wars movie with the 2:35 top and bottom bars provided I bump the contrast and brightness up just a few clicks? Maybe like +5 picture and +3 brightness?

Thanks gentlemen!

emboyd

12-14-06, 01:25 PM

Doesn't Discovery HD have the little "icon" in the corner? If so, that might be a "retained image". Keep an eye on it.

Doug_Eldred

12-14-06, 01:38 PM

s2mikey

12-14-06, 01:45 PM

WilliamR

12-14-06, 01:59 PM

Previous discussions suggest that the non-HD Discovery Channel probably has a fairly static logo, that Canada's "Disovery HD" does also, but that the US "Discovery HD Theater" does not. They're three separate networks.

Been watching it here in the states. I do see it now that I look for it. Very faint and transparant. Comes up about 4 - 6 times during an hour show and is on for about 4 seconds. I think that is awesome and no need for concern on TVs.

Doug_Eldred

12-14-06, 02:08 PM

Right - "does not" referred to "fairly static logo". There is one, briefly and occasionally and mostly transparent. But the rest of the time it's just picture - GREAT picture.

bigtv:)

12-14-06, 04:55 PM

Is anyone use Media Center with a plasma TV? It looks like there is a lot of subtle moving color and that the buttons all move slightly as well. I'm guessing this was designed in to help prevent burn in issues. If anyone is using media center with their plasma I'd love to hear their opinions on the matter.

Thanks

Wallboy

12-14-06, 05:25 PM

- By this Sunday when I have about 40-50 hours on it will it be OK to watch a Star Wars movie with the 2:35 top and bottom bars provided I bump the contrast and brightness up just a few clicks? Maybe like +5 picture and +3 brightness?

Thanks gentlemen!

I always thought the top and bottom black bars don't have any active phosphors to cause any problem? :confused:

brc80

12-14-06, 06:37 PM

Im thinking of making the jump form my Panasonic 47x54 RPTV to a Plasma.

My question is regarding burn in. Is a plasma better or worse than a rptv in this area.

Thanks

s2mikey

12-14-06, 07:12 PM

instantpop

12-14-06, 10:50 PM

Whether they're active or not (which I would think they aren't since nothing is running through them), isn't that still a bad thing? You're not evenly wearing your phosphors if some are active and some are not, isn't that right?

wrathloki

12-14-06, 11:20 PM

So what exactly does breaking the tv in do? And does it need to be done on lcd's as well as plasmas?

BruZZi

12-14-06, 11:22 PM

I always thought the top and bottom black bars don't have any active phosphors to cause any problem? :confused:

Hmmm.... now thats interesting....I have never heard that.

That would be GREAT! I gotta research this now! :eek:

Whether they're active or not (which I would think they aren't since nothing is running through them), isn't that still a bad thing?

They are still active as you can't completly turn a pixel off.

You're not evenly wearing your phosphors if some are active and some are not, isn't that right?

That's correct.

Read this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9165700&&#post9165700

jfandem

12-14-06, 11:52 PM

Well my xbox 360dvd player wont seem to play the burn in SVCD...........so what about playing music on the Xbox music player with full screen visualization (the crazy screensaver thing) Will that be good? Should i put it on JUST or FULL or ZOOM (panasonic 42px60u) Thanks!

Ih8dumppl

12-15-06, 12:29 AM

THe sound visualizer is fine for breaking in the tv, a lot of people have used it. Don't know how hot the 360 gets though, I don't own one. Make sure that it fills the whole screen.

instantpop

12-15-06, 01:15 AM

They are still active as you can't completly turn a pixel off.

Good point. And with the amount of research I did on my Pio before purchase, you think I would have caught my own mistake. I guess the clouds from my now gone XBR3 got into my brain! lol.

al67

12-15-06, 02:12 AM

instantpop

12-15-06, 04:09 AM

Is there a particular break-in DVD I should be using? I've read through several threads and keep seeing mention of a break-in DVD but haven't quite figured out where to get one. Can someone please point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
-AA

There's a thread in the forum that has one that you can download and burn. If you can't do that, do what I did and break-in your new toy with lots of Discovery HD.

stripe

12-15-06, 09:13 AM

Another problem with simply displaying Red then Green then Blue is that you are assuming the Plasma TV's red pixels correspond directly with the Red color on the DVD (as with other colors). Given the factory color bias and user adjustments I doubt just the red pixels light up but rather a subtle mix of all three color pixel colors are used to present the DVD's red to the screen. This would suggest that using the primary's in a constant mix would lead to a more even break in than each primary individually.Chris

I was thinking the exact same thing. A "photoshop Red" of, for example (255,0,0) does NOT translate to an NTSC color space Pure Red (255,0,0) once displayed on your screen. The DVD player, the TV calibration, etc. all have something to do in the way the colors are interpreted, and displayed, on your screen.

Take this very simple example. You never calibrated your tv and your "tint" setting sits at it default "0" position. What you don't know is that the TV has a "blue push", for example, and the Red you actually think is Red on the screen is more of a "purple red", which uses a considerable amount of both the Red and Blue pixels.

Now, you use the break-in DVD which displays the same "red" image (which is purple-red on your screen, remember?) every minute or so for hours on end... In the end, the Red and Blue pixels will have "aged" much more than the green pixels (for example, in this case).

So, the morale here is, unless the photoshop 255,0,0 value gets translated to a perfect 255,0,0 pure red, with no other hues in it at all, on YOUR screen (and believe me, even after an ISF calibration, you won't get a perfect (255,0,0), the aging process, when using such a break-in dvd, will not be perfect, and may even cause your greyscale to shift.

stripe

12-15-06, 09:31 AM

I'm going to have to go back and look closer now since I can't tell there is a difference between off and black on my panny 42PX60U.

I have the exact same plasma, so I can answer this one: of course there is a difference between "full off" and just "on, but without a source hooked up" black levels. Just sit in a completey dark room, turn the plasma on, and you'll have a nice night light. Don't get me wrong, Panny blacks are the best out there, but the blackest blacks are still not "pitch black", "can't see my hand in front of my face" blacks.

stripe

12-15-06, 09:34 AM

If so then doesn't it make sense to use normal settings, or even -increase- the brightness while running the break-in video? Since the scenes are uniform, increasing the brightness will age the display faster and break the set in in a fewer # hours. Just be sure to change back to reduced settings when watching SD video or playing games.

In theory, you are correct. Turning UP the settings will age the pixels faster, when using a break-in DVD. There is evidently no way of causing burn-in when using solid backgrounds. HOWEVER, what if the DVD player stutters, pauses, etc. on a SINGLE solid color, and your TV is left running on this color alone for hours on end? Ooops! :) Prudence is still called for and I would not recommend using very high settings for this reason alone.

My $0.02

stripe

12-15-06, 12:18 PM

A movie is usually around 2 hours long. Just watch an hour or two of full screen afterwards & you'll be just fine.

Technically, this isn't quite right. Watching another 2 hours of programming in full screen will "age" the area that was in the "black bars" for 2 hours, sure. But it will also age the same area in the middle for additional 2 hours. Differential aging will remain identical.

Having said this, I, for one, did not buy a $3k+ tv and not use it. I'm always careful and I avoid leaving static images on the screen for long periods of time. Other than that, I enjoy my plasma and I sleep very well at night :)

stripe

12-15-06, 12:42 PM

You are correct. Plasma pixel aging IS accumulative.

(Note: rant warning for the following paragraph...)

Anyone that thinks changing the channel "washes away" or "replenishes" the pixels some how, doesn't understand the technology they spent thousands of dollars on; and that is fine - no one says you need to understand technology to buy it, but you shouldn't be giving advice to others if you don't know what you are talking about.

Very true.

The only "good" recommendation that I've seen in this thread, other than the obvious "do not leave static images on the screen for extended periods of time", is the fact that after a certain "break-in" period, during which all pixels/subpixels got the chance to "exercise" for 100-200 hours, they will be LESS prone to rapid image burn-in, due to the simple fact that phosphors decay faster when new, and much more slowly after a certain time. So, once broken-in, the "aging differencial" will be much less noticible if static images are left on the screen for a longer period of time. However, unequal aging WILL still occur.

Anything other than that, IMHO, is not based on fact.

stripe

12-15-06, 01:09 PM

Maybe its been posted before, I dont know but here it is. When you buy something such as a TV, you should enjoy it out of the box, without having to worry about setting it to minimal settings to avoid Burn-in or IR.

When you buy a new car, do you not worry about changing its oil every 5k miles? Or do you say "this car is new! I shouldn't have to worry about oil changes.." Do you not worry about taking care of it, having it serviced regularly? Do you not worry about potholes in the road?, etc.

You see, it's not because something is new, or it is "technologically advanced" that care and precaution is not warranted.

You can surely enjoy your plasma (and new car) "out of the box". But being cautious and follow the manufacturer's advise is always called for.

I never advised anyone to use "minimal settings" on their new plasma. Personnally, I always suggest to be careful, use common sense, and avoid the obvious culprits, specially in the tv's infancy. Other than that, have fun :)

stripe

12-15-06, 01:40 PM

Since so many people are into, or will soon be into next gen video games, and since the only real drawback to plasma is possible burn in, why hasn't one of the major manufacturers put a plan in place to have these panels broken in already, greatly reducing that risk?

1) Takes too much time. They need to rush these panels to the assembly line.

2) Takes too much room and sucks too much power ($) to have thousands of plasma panels running at 100%, being burned-in, in a factory.

3) No manufacturer would want their plasma TVs being demoed in stores with a noticable loss of luminosity and "pop" compared to ther other brands, because they would simply not catch the consummers' eyes.

jfandem

12-15-06, 02:58 PM

I think the perfect thing for games would be for game developers to have games with less HUDs and compasses/ammo bars on 100% of the time. For example, gears of war already isnt too bad, but if they showed the ammo/weapon bar ONLY when your shooting or reloading, or maybe hit a reload button to check, that would be no static images on the screen most of the time. Also, gears of war (online) is 4 on 4 and after every round shows a score screen so that gets rid of the ammo bar for a while, does that even help? each match doesnt last hours, but the time your playing might.

Should I not use the burn in DVD now that people say it will wear out a certain color faster? Would the xbox 360 media /sound visualization be better ? (yes it is full screen)

WilliamR

12-15-06, 03:44 PM

instantpop

12-15-06, 04:07 PM

Remember though, this is only a concern on Plasma TVs, so developers really aren't going to do these kind of things just for one small part of the overall TV sales.

I don't think it should be a concern at all. There have been a myriad of people who post about having no issues. I thoroughly believe that the risk of permanent damage on a plasma is low by today's standards and think that a lot of the paranoia that exists is just that...paranoia based on old technology. As long as you're not an idiot, you should be ok gaming as much as you want on your plasma.

jfandem

12-15-06, 04:54 PM

Remember though, this is only a concern on Plasma TVs, so developers really aren't going to do these kind of things just for one small part of the overall TV sales.

I understand that, but it wouldnt be that hard to do, and would make the game look 'cleaner' on any TV (I know some games would require more HUDs though) Also more and more people will be owning/own plasma TVs

So, is there any other way I can break mine in (since someone suggested maybe not using the DVD) and my xbox will not play that SVCD anyway......and I dont have cable/sat hooked up yet, So I could only play a regular movie (dvd, which one will fill the screen?) or the sound visulization...which would be best?

Sorry for all the noob questions

fistofsouth

12-15-06, 08:58 PM

I don't think it should be a concern at all. There have been a myriad of people who post about having no issues. I thoroughly believe that the risk of permanent damage on a plasma is low by today's standards and think that a lot of the paranoia that exists is just that...paranoia based on old technology. As long as you're not an idiot, you should be ok gaming as much as you want on your plasma.

I wouldn’t call it paranoia when it’s documented in the Panasonic Plasma owner’s manual. Top manufacturers still recommend that videogames, computer use and other still images should constitute no more than 15% of Plasma use. The black levels and response time on Plasmas make them great for videogames, but I’m not willing to take a bunch of precautions and change my TV viewing habits for it. It kind of defeats the purpose of upgrading to HD if you end up using your old SD CRT for more than half of your viewing.

Hitting a TV to get good reception is abuse. Pouring water into your TV is abuse. Even watching Barney could be considered abusive to a TV. Watching ESPN all day Saturday or playing Fable for 8 hours straight does not constitute abuse it’s just normal use. When a TV has to be zoomed in on a program to get the station logo out of the frame (to avoid IR) it isn’t ready for prime-time in my book. Until Plasmas no longer have a warning about minimizing the use of still images I won’t be getting one. So long as that disclaimer is printed in plasma owner’s manuals IR is still a legitimate concern.

s2mikey

12-16-06, 12:28 AM

I wouldn’t call it paranoia when it’s documented in the Panasonic Plasma owner’s manual. Top manufacturers still recommend that videogames, computer use and other still images should constitute no more than 15% of Plasma use. The black levels and response time on Plasmas make them great for videogames, but I’m not willing to take a bunch of precautions and change my TV viewing habits for it. It kind of defeats the purpose of upgrading to HD if you end up using your old SD CRT for more than half of your viewing.

Hitting a TV to get good reception is abuse. Pouring water into your TV is abuse. Even watching Barney could be considered abusive to a TV. Watching ESPN all day Saturday or playing Fable for 8 hours straight does not constitute abuse it’s just normal use. When a TV has to be zoomed in on a program to get the station logo out of the frame (to avoid IR) it isn’t ready for prime-time in my book. Until Plasmas no longer have a warning about minimizing the use of still images I won’t be getting one. So long as that disclaimer is printed in plasma owner’s manuals IR is still a legitimate concern.

Good points. I felt the same way and I even still partly feel this way although I am NOT a gamer. But, nonetheless..... I just bought a TH42PX60U 3 days ago and have been slowly working it in. Ive been running it about 18 hours a day on Discovery HD theater with a few 1:85 movies thrown in. Contrast at zero and brightness at +5. Thats my break-in so to speak. Should be done in about 2-3 more days but even then I wont go crazy with the contrast or other settings. Looks so damned good like it is!

My point is that even with the precautions and the "Dont worry about it...BUT...." comments I still think Plasma TV's provide an amazing image. I have an AQUOS as well but the main set is the Plasma now. Im willing to "deal" with it for that great picture. Not everyone is. No biggy, just get an LCD. ;)

XboxEboy

12-16-06, 12:41 AM

instantpop

12-16-06, 01:13 AM

I wouldn’t call it paranoia when it’s documented in the Panasonic Plasma owner’s manual. Top manufacturers still recommend that videogames, computer use and other still images should constitute no more than 15% of Plasma use. The black levels and response time on Plasmas make them great for videogames, but I’m not willing to take a bunch of precautions and change my TV viewing habits for it. It kind of defeats the purpose of upgrading to HD if you end up using your old SD CRT for more than half of your viewing.

Hitting a TV to get good reception is abuse. Pouring water into your TV is abuse. Even watching Barney could be considered abusive to a TV. Watching ESPN all day Saturday or playing Fable for 8 hours straight does not constitute abuse it’s just normal use. When a TV has to be zoomed in on a program to get the station logo out of the frame (to avoid IR) it isn’t ready for prime-time in my book. Until Plasmas no longer have a warning about minimizing the use of still images I won’t be getting one. So long as that disclaimer is printed in plasma owner’s manuals IR is still a legitimate concern.

I'd be willing to bet that the same kind of warning may exist in regular CRT manuals as well. I mean, you can burn that in, too, if you try hard enough. I personally am not worried about my set. My Pioneer will get used for games a lot, but it also gets used for regular viewing as well. I've never burned in a CRT and I'm not going to let paranoia keep me from enjoying my plasma. I think half the reason that those warnings are in the manual are for legal reasons. Look at warnings on some of your other electronic devices. You'd be amazed.

My $.02.

s2mikey

12-16-06, 11:20 AM

fireballz

12-16-06, 01:46 PM

when they say "less than 15% of viewing time" and such, how does one assess this.

I mean, say I'm watching CNN (assume no commercials). After how long do I go "uh oh, that ticker has been on there for a while, maybe I should change the channel." And so, I change the channel... how long do I have to wait before going back to watch CNN and be safe of IR/Burn-in?

Also, say I'm watching a movie on a network station, like NBC or something. They typically have commercials. So say the movie is 3 hours long with the NBC logo on the bottom corner. They do have periodical commercial breaks, where the logo is taken off. DO i have to worry about burn in? Should I be changing the channel in between or something? Does that even help?!

The 15% rule is kind of vague, unless I'm just too much of an ignorant to understand it hehe. Thanks.

avjeff

12-16-06, 02:54 PM

Just a quick question follks....

I am currently at about the 50 hour mark of my Panny TH42PX60U break-in period and am just DYING to sneak in an anamorphic movie. ALL break-in hours thus far have been at zeroed contrast, +5 brightness, and NO 4:3 or stationary logos. Pretty much Discovery HD theater for like 18 hours day.

So then...can I sneak in a 2.35:1 movie er what?

Thanks! :)

You may watch ONE movie. That's it. And no Lord of the Rings. I mean one normal length movie. And turn the Picture setting down to 0, Brightness to +5. I watched one 2.35:1 movie before my break-in was over as well. Didn't do any harm. But really, don't go crazy, I'm a believer in proper break-in. Now I watch anything, logos, Fox News with banners, 2.35:1, no IR and no burn-in. I think it's because I observed break-in suggestions. Incidentally I went 180 hours with Picture at 0 and Brightness at +5.

s2mikey

12-16-06, 03:16 PM

You may watch ONE movie. That's it. And no Lord of the Rings. I mean one normal length movie. And turn the Picture setting down to 0, Brightness to +5. I watched one 2.35:1 movie before my break-in was over as well. Didn't do any harm. But really, don't go crazy, I'm a believer in proper break-in. Now I watch anything, logos, Fox News with banners, 2.35:1, no IR and no burn-in. I think it's because I observed break-in suggestions. Incidentally I went 180 hours with Picture at 0 and Brightness at +5.

Gotchya.... LOTR for some other time!

Makes sense.... Ive been VERY good with break in as I said before with the Picture setting at 0 and the brightness at +5 the whole time with nothing but bar-free HD programming.

Thanks!

fistofsouth

12-16-06, 08:32 PM

I'd be willing to bet that the same kind of warning may exist in regular CRT manuals as well. I mean, you can burn that in, too, if you try hard enough. I personally am not worried about my set. My Pioneer will get used for games a lot, but it also gets used for regular viewing as well. I've never burned in a CRT and I'm not going to let paranoia keep me from enjoying my plasma. I think half the reason that those warnings are in the manual are for legal reasons. Look at warnings on some of your other electronic devices. You'd be amazed.

My $.02.

To be honest I have seen burn-in warnings in LCD manuals, but they are much more forgiving in their requirements.

For instance a Samsung 3251D LCD has the following warning:
“Do not display a still image for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention. This image retention is also known as “screen burn”.

“Displaying still images from Video Games and PC for longer than a certain period of time may produce partial after-images. TO prevent this effect, reduce the brightness and contrast when displaying still images.”

That’s not that bad of a warning. It essentially says if you are going to view a still image you should mix in some movement (say some TV programming or a DVD) every two hours. I know many people that have grossly violated this rule with LCDs (read 18-hour HALO 2 marathons) and experienced no negative effects. In fact I don’t know an LCD owner that has had an instance of IR, much less burn-in.

Now let’s look at the warning from the Samsung 4253 Plasma:
“Displaying stationary graphics and Images on screen, such as the dark side-bars on non-expanded standard format television video and programming, should be limited to no more than 5% of the total television viewing per week”.

“Additionally, viewing other stationary Images and text such as stock market reports, video game displays, station logos, websites or computer graphics or patterns, should be limited as described above for all televisions. Displaying stationary images that exceed the above guidelines can cause uneven aging of PDP Displays that leave subtle, but permanent burned-in ghost images in the PDP picture.”

“Uneven PDP aging as a result of format selection and use, as well as burned-in images, are not covered by your Samsung limited warranty”.

That warning is not as bad as those in some Plasma manuals, but it is clearly not as forgiving as the LCD burn-in warning by the same manufacturer. Samsung (like every other Plasma manufacturer) flat out tells you that burn-in is not covered by their warranty. I would also like to note that much of the warning in the Plasma manual is in bold text while the warning in the LCD manual is in standard text. Bold text and a more blatant warning (combined with some Plasma users I know that have burn-in) seem to indicate that manufacturers consider IR and burn-in a much more prevalent problem for Plasmas than for LCDs.

I really wish Plasma didn’t have this issue. I really do prefer them in most respects to LCDS, but I’m also a worry wart. For some users a properly broken in Plasma can be a gamer’s best friend if some preventative maintenance measures are taken. I have a wife that procrastinates and two kids under the age of 12. That taken in conjunction my propensity for playing RPGs and strategy games for 12 hours at a time makes an LCD the only flat panel option for me.

FWIW my Sony CRT had no burn-in warning in the manual. In fact I have not seen a burn-in warning on a CRT since the eighties. That’s not to say some don’t provide a warning just that I’ve not seen any lately. Now CRT based RPTVs have more burn-in warnings than you can shake a stick at.

instantpop

12-16-06, 11:28 PM

To be honest I have seen burn-in warnings in LCD manuals, but they are much more forgiving in their requirements.

For instance a Samsung 3251D LCD has the following warning:
“Do not display a still image for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention. This image retention is also known as “screen burn”.

“Displaying still images from Video Games and PC for longer than a certain period of time may produce partial after-images. TO prevent this effect, reduce the brightness and contrast when displaying still images.”

That’s not that bad of a warning. It essentially says if you are going to view a still image you should mix in some movement (say some TV programming or a DVD) every two hours. I know many people that have grossly violated this rule with LCDs (read 18-hour HALO 2 marathons) and experienced no negative effects. In fact I don’t know an LCD owner that has had an instance of IR, much less burn-in.

Now let’s look at the warning from the Samsung 4253 Plasma:
“Displaying stationary graphics and Images on screen, such as the dark side-bars on non-expanded standard format television video and programming, should be limited to no more than 5% of the total television viewing per week”.

“Additionally, viewing other stationary Images and text such as stock market reports, video game displays, station logos, websites or computer graphics or patterns, should be limited as described above for all televisions. Displaying stationary images that exceed the above guidelines can cause uneven aging of PDP Displays that leave subtle, but permanent burned-in ghost images in the PDP picture.”

“Uneven PDP aging as a result of format selection and use, as well as burned-in images, are not covered by your Samsung limited warranty”.

That warning is not as bad as those in some Plasma manuals, but it is clearly not as forgiving as the LCD burn-in warning by the same manufacturer. Samsung (like every other Plasma manufacturer) flat out tells you that burn-in is not covered by their warranty. I would also like to note that much of the warning in the Plasma manual is in bold text while the warning in the LCD manual is in standard text. Bold text and a more blatant warning (combined with some Plasma users I know that have burn-in) seem to indicate that manufacturers consider IR and burn-in a much more prevalent problem for Plasmas than for LCDs.

I really wish Plasma didn’t have this issue. I really do prefer them in most respects to LCDS, but I’m also a worry wart. For some users a properly broken in Plasma can be a gamer’s best friend if some preventative maintenance measures are taken. I have a wife that procrastinates and two kids under the age of 12. That taken in conjunction my propensity for playing RPGs and strategy games for 12 hours at a time makes an LCD the only flat panel option for me.

FWIW my Sony CRT had no burn-in warning in the manual. In fact I have not seen a burn-in warning on a CRT since the eighties. That’s not to say some don’t provide a warning just that I’ve not seen any lately. Now CRT based RPTVs have more burn-in warnings than you can shake a stick at.

I guess it depends on your set more than anything. The burn-in/IR warning that's in my Pioneer manaul reads more like the LCD warning above than the Samsung plasma warning. 5%? That's crazy. The arbitrary percentages always get me. Tell me, are any of you sitting in front of your tv with a spreadsheet to keep track? lol.

I just watched the entire Falcons/Cowboys game on my Pio that's 80 hours in to it's "break-in" cycle and I've got zero IR. I 100% believe that a lot of the reasons the manuals go as far as they do is simply because of issues that they had in the past and to cover their own butts should they need to in the future.

I also think that a lot of people who visit this forum may get scared away from plasma because of all the work it seems to entail based on some of the lengthy threads in here. I know I was steered well clear of plasmas for quite some time based on what I read here. Then I got stuck with a cloudy LCD and went plasma anyway.

Don't let the risk of burn-in/IR scare you away from a set you like. Unless, of course, you enjoy letting your DVR menu or TV Guide sit on the screen for days at a time (or you're running an airport terminal in your living room).

scottgriz

12-16-06, 11:32 PM

Ok, I really have to know. Is all this burn-in talk really paranoia or is it very real? I have a 10 year old CRT that has no burnin. How much more susceptible is a plasma to burnin VS a CRT?
All this talk of burnin makes it sound like it will occur in a matter of hours and will require corrective measures to reverse it. The last thing I want to have to do it always be maintaining my screen because burnin hoses the picture everytime I watch an SD show would bars.
For all practical purposes, is this a REAL problem or something people overly concern themselves with. The intro to this forum says 1% of people suffer from it. Is it because Plasma users are cautious and learn how to deal with burnin or is it just a red herring?
Thanks.
Scott G.

jfandem

12-17-06, 02:35 AM

fistofsouth

12-17-06, 03:41 AM

I guess it depends on your set more than anything. The burn-in/IR warning that's in my Pioneer manaul reads more like the LCD warning above than the Samsung plasma warning. 5%? That's crazy. The arbitrary percentages always get me. Tell me, are any of you sitting in front of your tv with a spreadsheet to keep track? lol.

I just watched the entire Falcons/Cowboys game on my Pio that's 80 hours in to it's "break-in" cycle and I've got zero IR. I 100% believe that a lot of the reasons the manuals go as far as they do is simply because of issues that they had in the past and to cover their own butts should they need to in the future.

I also think that a lot of people who visit this forum may get scared away from plasma because of all the work it seems to entail based on some of the lengthy threads in here. I know I was steered well clear of plasmas for quite some time based on what I read here. Then I got stuck with a cloudy LCD and went plasma anyway.

Don't let the risk of burn-in/IR scare you away from a set you like. Unless, of course, you enjoy letting your DVR menu or TV Guide sit on the screen for days at a time (or you're running an airport terminal in your living room).

Well I don’t know about NFL Network, but I know there have been many IR issues for people watching the ESPN SD feed because of the solid white ESPN logo in the corner. I’ve also read numerous complaints about issues with various HUDs on several different videogames. The Gears of War thread in the X-Box section here on the AVS forums has more than one complaint about IR and GoW is know as a relatively “Plasma Friendly” application.

I know that people with problems are far more likely to post on AVS than satisfied users, but the Plasma Burn-in thread is a sticky for a reason. People do have problems with burn-in and IR and since the companies making Plasmas won’t warranty against IR or burn-in one must assume it happens frequently enough to cause them financial headaches. I’m just a little nervous about buying a TV for a purpose that the manufacturer has made clear they don’t approve of.

instantpop

12-17-06, 03:50 AM

Well, I guess it all comes down to what you are comfortable with. I'm comfortable with my plasma because I did my research, I'm not tv operating retarded and for every person who's warned me of the dangers or IR/Burn-In, there's been 2 people that say I don't really need to worry about it.

At this point, it's a tired debate that will never end and I'm tired of typing in circles.

s2mikey

12-17-06, 10:24 AM

Well lately ive been playing any 1.85:1 movies (spider man 1, saw II) and they fill the screen completely. Thats fine for break in? Also playing the sound visualizer too sometimes.....

Something weird happend the other night, i was watching a dvd then switched it to regular TV mode (to scan for antenna channels if any) and it had that mode set at vivid i think with high settings..........the channel scan took at most 5 min, and i turned the tv onto a black screen later and could see the outlines for the menus and stuff....(the panasonic settings menus) It went away after playing some DVDs but thats odd that it happend that quick, and easily, or was it because the settings were so hi in that mode?

The 1.85 movies are great for break-in...any full screen content with minimal logos or no logos is the way to go. Discovery HD theater is an awesome break-in channel. Lots of different shows and 24/7 widescreen HD. Ive been using that but I have also done some 1.85 movies as well. No prob there!

As for your other issue, yeah, the vivid settings are probably the worst thing during the break-in period. They crank those little phosphurs to the max and thats not good! It went away because its just IR and isnt anything to worry about. A little IR will happen to everyone. You REALLY need to screw up bad to permanently damage one of these plasmas, I'm convinced of that!

XboxEboy

12-17-06, 10:27 AM

You may watch ONE movie. That's it. And no Lord of the Rings. I mean one normal length movie. And turn the Picture setting down to 0, Brightness to +5. I watched one 2.35:1 movie before my break-in was over as well. Didn't do any harm. But really, don't go crazy, I'm a believer in proper break-in. Now I watch anything, logos, Fox News with banners, 2.35:1, no IR and no burn-in. I think it's because I observed break-in suggestions. Incidentally I went 180 hours with Picture at 0 and Brightness at +5.

I really want to watch movies, too, so I'll just watch 1:85 or 1:78 movies that fill the screen in full. Pixar is good for that :)

rastuso

12-17-06, 12:36 PM

I have had a Viewsonic N3760W for a few months and last night noticed, while watching Return of the King in HD on TNT, that there was a faint vertical line on the right side exactly where the right edge of a 3:4 image is, which is obviously what this TV normally sees. There is not a corresponding one on the left side. Is this an image retention problem? I've always assumed LCD = no burn in, especially after only a few months. But, I do watch probably 90% 3:4 TV. This is starting to change with our Wii playing.

Just a bit disconcerting. Any advice?

Jason

jfandem

12-17-06, 02:18 PM

The 1.85 movies are great for break-in...any full screen content with minimal logos or no logos is the way to go. Discovery HD theater is an awesome break-in channel. Lots of different shows and 24/7 widescreen HD. Ive been using that but I have also done some 1.85 movies as well. No prob there!

As for your other issue, yeah, the vivid settings are probably the worst thing during the break-in period. They crank those little phosphurs to the max and thats not good! It went away because its just IR and isnt anything to worry about. A little IR will happen to everyone. You REALLY need to screw up bad to permanently damage one of these plasmas, I'm convinced of that!

I understand some IR that will happen, but figured it shouldnt happen that fast, and although my settings are at 0 now, when it was on vivid ill probably never have it that bright, but did it retain so quickly just because its new? I played a few min of gears of war, and WOW it looks much better than my sammy DLP (even though my settings are at 0 lol) and did not see any IR from the ammo meter. The rounds do end after a few minutes though. Awesome tv, doesnt produce much heat either.

datamage

12-17-06, 06:21 PM

What's the verdict on using the break-in DVD/SVCD? Is it harmful? If I have to break in my TV with just regular watching for 100-200 hours, it'll take forever.

s2mikey

12-17-06, 08:15 PM

What's the verdict on using the break-in DVD/SVCD? Is it harmful? If I have to break in my TV with just regular watching for 100-200 hours, it'll take forever.

It shouldnt tale any extra time to use regular HD broadcasts like Discovery HD Theater all day long. Does the break-in disc accelerate the process???

datamage

12-17-06, 08:20 PM

It shouldnt tale any extra time to use regular HD broadcasts like Discovery HD Theater all day long. Does the break-in disc accelerate the process???

It does, simply because I can leave the DVD playing while I sleep. I don't have Discovery HD at this moment, and every channel seems to have a logo of some sort. For me, I think it's absurd that I have to wait 100+ hours to fully enjoy something I payed a pretty penny for. So if I can accelerate that process (by doing the above) then the better.

XboxEboy

12-17-06, 10:24 PM

XboxEboy

12-18-06, 08:11 AM

I made a list of movies I own that are in 1:85 or 1:78 aspect ration. Hopefully, this will help anyone who owns these movies who wants to break in their tv faster.
These aspect ratios will apparently fill the screen and play w/o black bars
In no particular order:
Spider-Man
Monster, Inc.
War of the Worlds
E.T.
Finding Nemo
Toy Story 1 and 2
The Princess Bride
Psycho (Would a Black and White Movie be better or worse for break-in?)
Schindler's List
Jurassic Park
Taxi Driver
Vertigo
Fargo
Home Alone

When I was doing this, I noticed something I forgot to ask. When a DVD says, "enhanced for wide screen tvs," does this just mean it is anamorphic, or does this gaurantee it will fill the TV screen without black bars?
For example, "The Incredibles" DVD says this, but the aspect ration is 2:35: 1 or something like that, so I didn't include it on the list.

s2mikey

12-18-06, 10:29 AM

When I was doing this, I noticed something I forgot to ask. When a DVD says, "enhanced for wide screen tvs," does this just mean it is anamorphic, or does this gaurantee it will fill the TV screen without black bars?
For example, "The Incredibles" DVD says this, but the aspect ration is 2:35: 1 or something like that, so I didn't include it on the list.

I have wondered this as well. From my experience when it says that it really doesnt mean much of anything. I had a Nerflix version of Mission Impossible that said that aqnd it turned out to be like double-anamorphic! The bars on the top and bottom were so freegin huge that the actual picture was tiny and unwatchable.

I wished they would just get some standards and be done with it. Screw people with 4:3 TV's.... its their problem! All movies should be 1.85 or 2.35 and thats IT!

diamonds

12-18-06, 12:16 PM

XboxEboy

12-18-06, 03:10 PM

I made a list of movies I own that are in 1:85 or 1:78 aspect ration. Hopefully, this will help anyone who owns these movies who wants to break in their tv faster.
These aspect ratios will apparently fill the screen and play w/o black bars
In no particular order:
Spider-Man
Monster, Inc.
War of the Worlds
E.T.
Finding Nemo
Toy Story 1 and 2
The Princess Bride
Psycho (Would a Black and White Movie be better or worse for break-in?)
Schindler's List
Jurassic Park
Taxi Driver
Vertigo
Fargo
Home Alone

Also,
Here are Xbox 360 Games That Don't Have Any HUDS:
King Kong
Condemned
Perfect Dark
Fight Night: Round 3

Feel free to add to this list.

GWBadger

12-18-06, 03:15 PM

I have a new Samsung Plasma that is about 1 or 2 months old. When shutting everything down last night I noticed that two dark lines are going down my tv. These dark lines are where the 4:3 bars would be. I have not watched any 4:3 programing. The only time 4:3 comes up is when I use the guide on my cox cable HD DVR. I ran the burn in prevention that is in my TV and it did not seem to make a dent into those dark lines. My questions are: Do I have burn in? Will this go away over time? Is there anything else I can do to prevent this? Thanks for any info you can give me.

Thanks!

I noticed this too on my Hitachi but I think it's related to the source you have plugged into that input. In my case it only is on my Input 4 which is my cable box when the cable box is turned off. It is not present on the other 4 inputs that I have when they have a black screen.

diamonds

12-18-06, 04:26 PM

I noticed this too on my Hitachi but I think it's related to the source you have plugged into that input. In my case it only is on my Input 4 which is my cable box when the cable box is turned off. It is not present on the other 4 inputs that I have when they have a black screen.

interesting! I will check when I get home...

MooMooEgg

12-18-06, 08:23 PM

I've had a pioneer pdp-4270 for about 4 months, and ive been using (and I'm still using) one of the picture settings to prevent burn in (The brightness is actually a little bit lower than recommended.) and definately viewed more than 200 hours of dvd's.

However, over the past month or so, I've been playing final fantasy XII on and off, racking up 72 hours total playtime. I just started playing Zelda on the wii, and I noticed that there is some faint ir where the life bars/stats are (very faint, and "normal" people wouldnt be able to notice it). I'm totally freaked out, and I was wondering if there is any way to get rid of this, since it's not extremely horrible.

Seems like I could just let an 16:9 movie run for a while, but I just wanted some confirmation if this will work, and if anyone has resolved this issue.

thanks

jfandem

12-18-06, 08:51 PM

guru76

12-18-06, 09:05 PM

Just watch regular programming with full screen. Should reduce it.
Yesterday I saw a 2 hr movie with black bars on top and bottom on a Panasonic 42PX60U. This was the first time I was watching any non-full screen material. The set has around 160 hrs. After the movie, I saw faint IR on top and bottom. I just watched regular programming for 10-15 minutes and the IR was gone.

I've had a pioneer pdp-4270 for about 4 months, and ive been using (and I'm still using) one of the picture settings to prevent burn in (The brightness is actually a little bit lower than recommended.) and definately viewed more than 200 hours of dvd's.

However, over the past month or so, I've been playing final fantasy XII on and off, racking up 72 hours total playtime. I just started playing Zelda on the wii, and I noticed that there is some faint ir where the life bars/stats are (very faint, and "normal" people wouldnt be able to notice it). I'm totally freaked out, and I was wondering if there is any way to get rid of this, since it's not extremely horrible.

Seems like I could just let an 16:9 movie run for a while, but I just wanted some confirmation if this will work, and if anyone has resolved this issue.

thanks

Sergey M

12-19-06, 12:24 AM

I played GOW for a few min again but still noticed the ammo/weapon bar on the top right (dont have 100 hrs yet) and played a DVD and sound visualizer for at least an hour or 2, and it did get less apparent, but its still there (if i turn the room light off, and look for it on 'tv' input (nothing hooked up, no channels) Even if i hit the menu real quick , and then exit, i can see the imprint where the menu was. Kinda makes me worried to play games now, or will after 100 hrs be better?

See my post on this thread regarding GOW and the same ammo related IR problem. I have a Pioneer PDP-4271 with about 650 hours on it now. To recap: babied it for the first 200 hours. Got that GOW IR at 250 hours mark. Took about 200-300 hours to substantially reduce it. I take it by 1000 hours mark it'll be extremely hard to detect. FTR, I did have to adjust my playing habits. HTH.

dlconner

12-19-06, 01:31 AM

instantpop

12-19-06, 02:20 AM

See my post on this thread regarding GOW and the same ammo related IR problem. I have a Pioneer PDP-4271 with about 650 hours on it now. To recap: babied it for the first 200 hours. Got that GOW IR at 250 hours mark. Took about 200-300 hours to substantially reduce it. I take it by 1000 hours mark it'll be extremely hard to detect. FTR, I did have to adjust my playing habits. HTH.

I'm curious as to a couple of things, too. What kind of set do you own? What are your settings that you are using when you game? How long are you gaming for? I just find it so amazingly odd that some people experience IR to this degree and others report absolutely no problems. I'd be willing to bet money that if someone took the time to compile all the posts related to burn-in/IR, it'd be a dead split right down the middle as to who has experienced it and who hasn't.

How does one person who plays GOW get IR and another person who posts and says they game for hours at a time gets absolutely zero IR? What kind of settings are those of you suffering from IR using?? Sounds to me like they must be pretty high if you are getting the IR as severe as your posts suggest.

FTR, I have a Pioneer 5070/1. Purchased last week. Has been broken in over 100 hours. I played Resistance: Fall of Man last night on factory "game mode" for a little over 2 hours and had no trace of IR.

jfandem

12-19-06, 06:42 AM

Ive played a few movies for hours now (full screen) and the ammo bar keeps getting less and less noticeable (on black screen only) but its still there. Also, like I said, if i go to the black screen and change the input or channel and the 'channel not available ' comes up, i can see the imprint of that right when it goes away for a few seconds. I am not sure if the GOW thing will ever go away, but everytime I play it will come back, so it kinda defeats the purpose....

Sergey M

12-19-06, 10:21 AM

What kind of set do you own?

It's right there in my post. :) I have a Pioneer PDP-4271.

What are your settings that you are using when you game? How long are you gaming for?

Ran the TV through 200+ hours break in using D-Nice's setting before playing anything (you can look up his thread for the reference). I was using Game mode with GOW initially. After noticing IR I went back to User mode with slightly lower than Game custom (break in like) settings.

I am not sure if the GOW thing will ever go away, but everytime I play it will come back, so it kinda defeats the purpose....

My understanding is that it'll go away as the set ages. Here's what I've been doing to vary GOW IR at the same spot until that initial IR goes away. I switch to Zoom mode every other time I play. While that cuts the image off slightly, it basically ensures that ammo image is at the different spot. This gives the "usual" GOW IR spot a break and a chance to go away. HTH.

monstre

12-19-06, 02:05 PM

dlconner

12-19-06, 03:29 PM

I know that most of you must be breaking in the unit using your awesome HD channels/ HD upscaling DVD player. Unfortunately my DVD player still uses RCA cables, and hence the picture would not be truly HD. I have already ordered my HDMI / Component cables and my HD Cable box, but I want to start breaking in the bad boy now. Would using a regular RCA cable affect the break in process?

I would really like to know this as well. I can use my xbox360 if needed, but would prefer to not put wear and tear on it if I can get by on RCA until I get a player with hdmi/component connections.

XboxEboy

12-19-06, 03:39 PM

I would really like to know this as well. I can use my xbox360 if needed, but would prefer to not put wear and tear on it if I can get by on RCA until I get a player with hdmi/component connections.

Related to the 360, a few of us have asked without reply so far:
Would the full-screen "visualizer" on the 360 work as a good break-in tool? IMO it would be better b/c it is not one solid color the entire time.

GWBadger

12-19-06, 03:44 PM

I would really like to know this as well. I can use my xbox360 if needed, but would prefer to not put wear and tear on it if I can get by on RCA until I get a player with hdmi/component connections.

I can't see why the type of cables used really matter in terms of breaking it in. And standard DVD isn't HD regardless of the cables being used.

DReilly1

12-19-06, 04:09 PM

I can't see why the type of cables used really matter in terms of breaking it in. And standard DVD isn't HD regardless of the cables being used.

The main goals of plasma break in appear to be filling up the entire screen to age all phosphors at the same time, and moving images using different colors, shapes, etc.

It should not matter at all if it is RC, composite, component or HDMI.

Lower the settings below half, avoid static images and use full screen or zoom for the first 200 hours and you should be fine.

crocket99r

12-19-06, 05:47 PM

I don't have a plasma screen yet but am looking to get one very soon, still unsure of this burn in issue with them being the reason I have not purchased yet.

If someone has a burn in image, could you not just get the 'blue screen' up and leave it on to 'burn in' the whole screen?

I am looking to get the Panasonic TH42PX60B, heard lots of good things about this set, any better recomendations?

Thanks for any advice

monstre

12-19-06, 06:48 PM

The main goals of plasma break in appear to be filling up the entire screen to age all phosphors at the same time, and moving images using different colors, shapes, etc.

It should not matter at all if it is RC, composite, component or HDMI.

Lower the settings below half, avoid static images and use full screen or zoom for the first 200 hours and you should be fine.

Thanks for the great response! Just another quick question here, why are there so many people in this forum using Discovery HD to break-in, aside from the variety in colour displayed?

Looks like I will be breaking in my new Sammy HP-S4253 tonite w/ the break-in DVD on page 1!!

MooMooEgg

12-19-06, 07:26 PM

jfandem

12-19-06, 10:08 PM

hm... I left on my dvd of grey's anatomy last night (I kept waking up because of the light, and reset it to the beginning) so it was on for about 7 hours continuous. In the morning, I looked for the ir, and it was still there; I'm not sure how well it was reduced since it wasn't that bad to begin with, but I can still pick it out when there's a lot of white on the screen.

*cries*

I'm gonna do the same thing tonight and see if it helps any more. I wish I wasn't so ocd >_<

Yeah me too...but today I had to leave real quick to go see someone at the hospital, and left a DVD on thinking I would be back before it was over, but I took longer than expected, and the dvd ended and went to the main DVD menu and that image was very noticeably imprinted onto the screen..........right now im playing the xbox visualizer and seeing if it gets less apparent, but the GOW icon is still slowly fading away. Ive probably said this before but It kinda bothers me that it gets IR so easily (i say easily because all the settings are still at 0 ) but the TV probably still has less than 30 hrs on it.

EvilManatee

12-19-06, 10:23 PM

s2mikey

12-20-06, 08:33 AM

I really believed that IR was not possible on the new plasmas unless you really abused them. I enjoyed my new Pioneer plasma for a few months with no IR at all. Then the other day I noticed IR on my Pioneer 4270. It is very faint and I only notice it when the Pioneer is displaying the color white...but still it is driving me nuts. I am sure most normal people would not even see it but we are not exactly your normal TV viewers.

I think it may have been caused by NBC's Today Show. My wife watches it every morning and they have this big square NBC logo in the lower right hand corner.
I am hoping and praying with more viewing the IR will go away.

I am beginning to feel like a chump for buying a plasma. As much as I love the picture on my Pioneer 4270, this is making me wonder if I should have gone with a LCD. :(

I hear what you're saying. I just recently bought a Panny 42" plasma after trying out a Sharp 42" LCD for a while. I already have a 32" Sharp and really liked it so I figured the 42" version would be just the same. It was NOT! The Panny really looked better to me, espcially at the house and Im starting to love my Panny plasma. BUT.....

..... I constantly wonder about IR/Burn-in and even though Im passed my 100 hour break-in, I still get "fidgety" when the kids happen to be watching cartoons with a Nickelodeon logo on screen. I also am a BIG movie buff and plenty of my favorites are 2.35:1 aspect ratio..... and NO I will not watch them stretched or whatever! :mad:

The pro-plasma guys claim its overblown, not an issue, etc, etc. I want to believe them but there is a STICKY thread dealing with it on this very forum, the thread that we are on right now! So.... I'm not sure what to do. I hate thinking that I have to "baby" my hi-tech TV that I paid a good buck for. I can see using common sense..... but what exactly is common sense? How many anamorphic movies can I watch per week? Per month? At what point am I stressing the TV? :rolleyes:

Ah well.... I hope your issue goes away. Pioneer is a great product so I suspect that it will but it DOES scare the Beejezus out of ya! :eek:

DReilly1

12-20-06, 08:39 AM

Thanks for the great response! Just another quick question here, why are there so many people in this forum using Discovery HD to break-in, aside from the variety in colour displayed?

Looks like I will be breaking in my new Sammy HP-S4253 tonite w/ the break-in DVD on page 1!!

It is always in True widescreen format, meaning no bars on sides, or even thin ones on top and bottom. Also, they don't have a visible Logo on the screen, which many HD Channels do. That logo can cause problems during break in, especially bright white ones like ESPN. Ans the many colorful and motion filled programs are just a nice added bonus.

Hope that helps.

Doug

borntorun

12-20-06, 12:09 PM

Hi,I bought a new 50" plasma.My satelite receiver and set box won`t be here until friday.My DVD player only puts out 480.My computer is a Gateway fx400xl with a NVIDIA GeForce7800 GTX.Is there any way that I can start the 200 hour break in with any of these? I burned the break in cd but I guess it wont play on a 480 player.

Edit: I just remembered my son has an xbox360 that I don`t know how to use.Could this work?,How?

I also turned all my plasma settings down to 30%.Are these the right settings?

Thanks.

LFC FAN

12-20-06, 12:35 PM

Ok now over 200 hours on my 42ph9 and was just testing a film with black bars left it on 10 mins and turned over i could see where the black bars where wtf? this screen is proper getting on my nerves now!!!! :mad:

XboxEboy

12-20-06, 01:46 PM

instantpop

12-20-06, 02:17 PM

I have asked over and over again if the 360's "visualizer" would work as a break-in tool. No one ever replies. Oh well.

It's also been stated over and over again in this thread that some people have indeed used that as their break-in tool. All you have to do is read the thread. I know I've seen it at least 3 times. Laziness and a snippy tone won't get you very much in this forum.

DReilly1

12-20-06, 02:22 PM

It's also been stated over and over again in this thread that some people have indeed used that as their break-in tool. All you have to do is read the thread. I know I've seen it at least 3 times. Laziness and a snippy tone won't get you very much in this forum.

Use the Search function in this thread as well.

"Xbox 360" Yielded 170 posts, about the 8th one states "Visualizer is fine for break in"

It's not personal guys, and its a pain to read through all the info, but that is why the info is there.

Searching will save you time and flames. ; )

instantpop

12-20-06, 02:24 PM

Use the Search function in this thread as well.

"Xbox 360" Yielded 170 posts, about the 8th one states "Visualizer is fine for break in"

It's not personal guys, and its a pain to read through all the info, but that is why the info is there.

Searching will save you time and flames. ; )

True indeed. There is a TON of information and weeding through all of it takes time, but that's just what you have to do. Think of it as the AVS Forum initiation process.

borntorun

12-20-06, 02:47 PM

Hi,

Edit: I just remembered my son has an xbox360 that I don`t know how to use.Could this work?,How?

I also turned all my plasma settings down to 30%.Are these the right settings?

Thanks.

Thanks for everyones the info on the xbox360.
Like I said I don`t know much about the settings and stuff.I guess it pushes 720.I couldn`t find his users guide.

I see various picture settings,from 50 all the way down to 0 on break/in.

What do you all set yours at???

mmilam

12-20-06, 05:56 PM

Hey everyone i have a quick question. I read the threads,
Last nite i was watching all kings men on bluray which is 1:85:1 so the movie filled up the whole screen, i have a pan th50px60u, but anyway, ive had about 10 hours worth of viewing time.
I fell asleep around 2am and the movie was still playing when i fell asleep, so imguessing the dvd menu came back on around 3:30 well when i woke up i turned off the ps3 around 7:00 or maybe 6:30.
Ive noticed that when nothing is playing on the screen, i now see the bottom part of the screen that says play movie, language, and scene selection.
If i watch tv of watch another movie or something, i dont see the image, only see it when nothing is playing on the screen.
Is this burn in or image retention?
How can i solve this, i heard leaving "snow" on your screen for a long time can get it better, is this true?
Also, i started the dvd break in dvd around 10:00am this morning and i think its still running while im at work.
Should i not risk it and try to return the tv and get a brand new one or this maybe is just going to fade away?
thanks....

borntorun

12-20-06, 10:21 PM

Thanks for everyones the info on the xbox360.
Like I said I don`t know much about the settings and stuff.I guess it pushes 720.I couldn`t find his users guide.

I see various picture settings,from 50 all the way down to 0 on break/in.

What do you all set yours at???

found this:

The main goals of plasma break in appear to be filling up the entire screen to age all phosphors at the same time, and moving images using different colors, shapes, etc.

It should not matter at all if it is RC, composite, component or HDMI.

Lower the settings below half, avoid static images and use full screen or zoom for the first 200 hours and you should be fine.

borntorun

12-20-06, 10:34 PM

mjtoopes

12-21-06, 12:49 AM

Is it possible for someone to send me a copy of the break-in dvd? My new panny 509UK will be arriving next week and I am currently without a burner:( Thanks guys

XboxEboy

12-21-06, 10:11 AM

Use the Search function in this thread as well.

"Xbox 360" Yielded 170 posts, about the 8th one states "Visualizer is fine for break in"

It's not personal guys, and its a pain to read through all the info, but that is why the info is there.

Searching will save you time and flames. ; )

Sorry about my "snippy tone." I will try to use the "search" option more often. In any case, thanks for helping us Panny noobs.

DReilly1

12-21-06, 10:21 AM

Sorry about my "snippy tone." I will try to use the "search" option more often. In any case, thanks for helping us Panny noobs.

I just happended to learn that the hard way, was just trying to help you avoid a similar land mine.

Most everyone on this forum are eager to help and many are quite knowledgeable.

Search and be patient, 2 things I have learned this far, much more to grasp in the future.

Welcome.

SteveK123

12-21-06, 01:08 PM

visconti

12-21-06, 04:15 PM

(EDIT: The following wasnt a dumb question, but was a question that had already been answered in a post I found after i made the followin post. it is here if people end up searhing here to find my rambling:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=769792&highlight=LCD+BURN

End-Edit)

Might be a dumb question, but here it goes:

just got a Samsung 4041d LCD. On the first page of the manual, it indicated "Precautions When Displaying a Still Image" and goes on to talk about still images causing "...permanent damage to the TV Screen" if an image is displayed for "...more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention. This image retention is also known as 'screen burn'.".

Also indicated LCD TV in 4:3 format, DVD, or Game console will have the same affect.

How real of an issue is this with LCDs? Will this be permanent damage? Will TV Station Logo's cause this too?

I thought when shopping that LCDs did not have the same problems Plasma's did in this department, and now i'm a bit concerned.

Any help/thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks.

ehyo

12-21-06, 05:44 PM

greggsand

12-21-06, 07:12 PM

fistofsouth

12-21-06, 08:15 PM

03-20-04, 08:13 AM

This is the date that this thread was started.For you guys who have been here that long congrats for hanging in here.
For us newbies to this forum that seems like a long time ago.I read the first few pages but then jumped to the last page and started working with the most recent knowledge available. You guys that have the experience and knowledge might want to start answering these posts fully to bring the most recent findings to light.
Trusting knowledge and answers that are almost three years old might be questionable?
Thanks.

It’s also a right of passage so to speak. One of the reasons this thread is eighty-some-odd pages long is simply because people ask the same questions over and over. There are many other reasons (including posts like this) this thread is so long, but repeated questions and responses are a huge part of this. If all new readers just read through a thread and used the search function they would find the answers to most of their questions. This why people that are long time posters on this and other forums get pissy about this issue; a new user says a thread is too long to read through, but their questions (and those of posters like them) are the reason the thread is so long to begin with.

Watch the way long time posters approach the issue and note the response they get. Here’s an example:

New poster: So can you use the visualization function on the 360 to break in plasma.

Response to noobie: Hey jack ass this has been discussed a dozen times.

Veteran poster: Hello all. I noticed that the topic of using the 360’s visualization function to break in a plasma has been mentioned several times. I also noticed that many of those posts are very old and there is little testimony regarding the effectiveness of the 360 as a plasma break in device. Has anyone out there used the 360 to break in their plasma lately? More specifically has any one tried doing it with a (insert your specific plasma brand and model number here)?

Response: Varies, but is considerably more constructive than the responses to the noobie. This is primarily because in posting the question the user mentioned that they have already searched and read through the thread and they have mentioned specifically what device and what circumstances are involved with the question they are asking.

Keep in mind when I sat “veteran poster” I mean someone that has posted (or read) through forums of this nature before. My post count is low on these forums, but if you look at my responses you will see that I have some experience or at the very least that I have read both the Forum FAQ and the forum TOS (Terms of Service).

I know people come on here and want a response immediately, but we all feel that way. Burn-in is burn-in be it yours, mine or someone else’s. Your problem only seems worse to you because it is happening to you. Show some common courtesy and read before you ask a question. If you don’t have time or have read the enire thread, but can’t find the explanation you’re looking for you can still post the question. Just let us know the circumstances. Failure to do so will make you look like a self-centered noobie and will get you no closer to the answers you seek.

kid320

12-21-06, 08:19 PM

hey guys, newbie to the world of plasmas here

i just started to break in my new panasonic TH42px60u. i put all the settings at 0, so hopefully thats right.

I know the standard period is 100 hours, is there anything wrong with me finding a chanel with no logos and leaving it on for 20 hours at a time.

Is this bad for the tv in any way? If yes, what about 5 hours?

i'd like to get the break in period done so i can start watching at the proper settings. thanks for any help

Ehyo,
I just got the 50 inch version of your tv. It is the TH50PX60U. I'm not trying to show you up or anything, but mine is bigger;) I can't say that about many things, so please, give me this.

When I first turned on the tv, I honestly had to bring up the description of the program that was on because I thought it was a claymation special. The settings were rediculiously high, and everyone looked, as I said, like clay. I asked on another forum why the settings were so high, and they told me that it would make the TV look more attractive in the stores, and panasonic does this purposely. It is stupid because most people aren't ever going to touch those settings. Yet, you did the smart thing. Whatever you do, do not choose the "vivid" presets, because that will KILL your tv really fast.

If you really want to adjust your video settings, I believe the AVIA guide to home theater DVD does a very good job. It is about 40 bucks, and does a fine job. My tv looks so much better than if I were to have set everything to 0. Now, I do not want you to use these and take them as perfect because our optimal settings are going to be different and I am in no way a professional. If you didn't want to buy your own AVIA disc, these are the settings that I came up with:

Picture: +16
Brightness: +5
Color: +5
Tint: -5
Sharpness: -1
Color Temp: Normal
Color Mng: Off (This is supposed to make your greens and blues more vivid, but I don't think I should have to if I am getting a good feed and have everything else adjusted properly.)
Other Adjust:
-Video NR: Off
-MPEG NR: On (I wasn't sure about this noise reduction setting, but I will tweak as needed)
-Black Level: Light

I make no promises on these settings, and if it seems too bright to you, then feel free to turn it down a bit. This is what worked for me, so I hope it works you out.

Jeff

wensteph

12-21-06, 09:54 PM

Is it possible for someone to send me a copy of the break-in dvd? My new panny 509UK will be arriving next week and I am currently without a burner:( Thanks guys

I'll send you one, PM me your address.

largtr

12-21-06, 10:17 PM

instantpop

12-21-06, 11:29 PM

I just read every post on this thread about station logos after doing a +station +logos search. I even signed the petition.

Every station that I get has a logo. Absolutely no way to avoid them. I don't have a "break in" dvd, nor do I currently have a way to burn one (yes I could order one online somewhere, but I mean really). Well, the new PDP arrives tomorrow; I guess I'll just have to sit back and watch the logo burn-in slowly take place. I will take every precaution available on the tv (reduce contrast, brightness, orbit pixels, etc...) but there is no way to avoid the logos for 100+ hours. I wish the stations would pull their logos out of their collective a**es.

Oh and thanks to you folks here at AVS for helping me in my research and decision to buy the family a really nice gift this year instead of just spending the money on music equipment for myself. (Eventhough I refer to it as "my tv" it's really for them ;) ) :D

Do you not get Discovery HD? That's like the entry level HD channel that should be included on all HD packages from your cable/satellite provider. Their logo pops in and out for a few seconds at a time every once in a great while during a broadcast.

If you don't have that channel, check your other HD channels. As a move of last resort, zooming your picture will usually take a logo out of the frame.

fistofsouth

12-22-06, 12:29 AM

I just read every post on this thread about station logos after doing a +station +logos search. I even signed the petition.

Every station that I get has a logo. Absolutely no way to avoid them. I don't have a "break in" dvd, nor do I currently have a way to burn one (yes I could order one online somewhere, but I mean really). Well, the new PDP arrives tomorrow; I guess I'll just have to sit back and watch the logo burn-in slowly take place. I will take every precaution available on the tv (reduce contrast, brightness, orbit pixels, etc...) but there is no way to avoid the logos for 100+ hours. I wish the stations would pull their logos out of their collective a**es.

Oh and thanks to you folks here at AVS for helping me in my research and decision to buy the family a really nice gift this year instead of just spending the money on music equipment for myself. (Eventhough I refer to it as "my tv" it's really for them ;) ) :D

There’s no need to fork over cash for a break-in DVD simply go to the first post of this thread and follow the link to the burn-in DVD download. They request a pay-pal donation, but you can still make the download without having to pay. After you download it you need to burn the DVD to work in your plasma. So if you don’t have a DVD burner on your Computer you might need to go to work, a friend’s house, an Internet Café or Public Library to burn the disk. The only one of those scenarios that would involve an outlay of cash (other than a blank DVD) is the Internet Café that is unless your friends are pirates.

largtr

12-22-06, 09:36 AM

Do you not get Discovery HD? That's like the entry level HD channel that should be included on all HD packages from your cable/satellite provider. Their logo pops in and out for a few seconds at a time every once in a great while during a broadcast.

If you don't have that channel, check your other HD channels. As a move of last resort, zooming your picture will usually take a logo out of the frame.

I live in a rural area of "upstate" NY. We're "lucky" to get digital (480i) cable. My cable company does not send any HD signal. They don't even subscribe to HD networks because they don't have the technology to deliver it. But the zoom function will definitley be used, at least for the break in period.

There’s no need to fork over cash for a break-in DVD simply go to the first post of this thread and follow the link to the burn-in DVD download. They request a pay-pal donation, but you can still make the download without having to pay. After you download it you need to burn the DVD to work in your plasma. So if you don’t have a DVD burner on your Computer you might need to go to work, a friend’s house, an Internet Café or Public Library to burn the disk. The only one of those scenarios that would involve an outlay of cash (other than a blank DVD) is the Internet Café that is unless your friends are pirates.

I do know of one person who lives about 15 miles north of here with a DVD burner, but he is in Texas for the holidays. :(

Thank you both for the advice!

ehyo

12-22-06, 06:25 PM

so i gather its standard practice to leave your tv on for 100 hours straight to get the break in period out of the way

i dont have HD yet, so i've just foudn a regular cable channel with no logos and i've left it on

XboxEboy

12-22-06, 09:57 PM

It’s also a right of passage so to speak. One of the reasons this thread is eighty-some-odd pages long is simply because people ask the same questions over and over. There are many other reasons (including posts like this) this thread is so long, but repeated questions and responses are a huge part of this. If all new readers just read through a thread and used the search function they would find the answers to most of their questions. This why people that are long time posters on this and other forums get pissy about this issue; a new user says a thread is too long to read through, but their questions (and those of posters like them) are the reason the thread is so long to begin with.

Watch the way long time posters approach the issue and note the response they get. Here’s an example:

New poster: So can you use the visualization function on the 360 to break in plasma.

Response to noobie: Hey jack ass this has been discussed a dozen times.

Veteran poster: Hello all. I noticed that the topic of using the 360’s visualization function to break in a plasma has been mentioned several times. I also noticed that many of those posts are very old and there is little testimony regarding the effectiveness of the 360 as a plasma break in device. Has anyone out there used the 360 to break in their plasma lately? More specifically has any one tried doing it with a (insert your specific plasma brand and model number here)?

Response: Varies, but is considerably more constructive than the responses to the noobie. This is primarily because in posting the question the user mentioned that they have already searched and read through the thread and they have mentioned specifically what device and what circumstances are involved with the question they are asking.

Keep in mind when I sat “veteran poster” I mean someone that has posted (or read) through forums of this nature before. My post count is low on these forums, but if you look at my responses you will see that I have some experience or at the very least that I have read both the Forum FAQ and the forum TOS (Terms of Service).

I know people come on here and want a response immediately, but we all feel that way. Burn-in is burn-in be it yours, mine or someone else’s. Your problem only seems worse to you because it is happening to you. Show some common courtesy and read before you ask a question. If you don’t have time or have read the enire thread, but can’t find the explanation you’re looking for you can still post the question. Just let us know the circumstances. Failure to do so will make you look like a self-centered noobie and will get you no closer to the answers you seek.

LOL.
I have tried to ask this visualizer question before. Please note, I'm not being snippy. But like this veteran poster, I would also appreciate an update re: the effectiveness of the visualizer as a break-in tool. "Search" did not yield updated feedback regarding this issue.

miamiracing

12-23-06, 01:00 AM

ok for dummies,

never look 4:3 movies with black bars,
never play any games on it in the first 1 week and what else?
is that right? cause i want to buy a plasma pretty soon.

what should i do, that the tv doesnt brake ?!?

miamiracing

terryb28

12-23-06, 01:01 PM

I've read through a large portion of this thread and done a number of searches, but I still can't find exactly what I'm looking for: can someone help clarify or point to a post# that lays out the ideal settings and time period for break in. I've picked up bits and pieces from various posts, but I can't locate a post the clearly lays it all out. sorry if it's obvious, but I just can't find it. thanks in advance. FYI, just got the panasonic 42" if that helps.

buiyahkah

12-23-06, 05:28 PM

terryb28

12-23-06, 10:02 PM

Um, read page 1 of this thread.

Thanks for the speedy reply, friend. The "Um" didn't come across as haughty or condescending, I promise. I hope whatever satisfaction you received from your post lasts well beyond the holiday season.

I took your sage advice and re-read p. 1 of the thread. And, wouldn't you know it, I didn't find the information I was looking for this time around, either.

So, perhaps I'm dense. I'll allow for the possibility, but let's please not get too hung up on it. Could someone find it within themselves to just pass along the most effective break-in suggestions they can offer or point me in a more specific direction than the brilliant and succint, "Um, read page 1 of this thread." I'd really appreciate it.

borntorun

12-23-06, 10:43 PM

Thanks for the speedy reply, friend. The "Um" didn't come across as haughty or condescending, I promise. I hope whatever satisfaction you received from your post lasts well beyond the holiday season.

I took your sage advice and re-read p. 1 of the thread. And, wouldn't you know it, I didn't find the information I was looking for this time around, either.

So, perhaps I'm dense. I'll allow for the possibility, but let's please not get too hung up on it. Could someone find it within themselves to just pass along the most effective break-in suggestions they can offer or point me in a more specific direction than the brilliant and succint, "Um, read page 1 of this thread." I'd really appreciate it.

I agree terry it`s disappointing that this attitude exists here.It would be nice to get a "current" answer.Instead of a lecture on right of passage.

instantpop

12-24-06, 12:33 PM

borntorun

12-24-06, 12:45 PM

borntorun

12-24-06, 03:27 PM

will running the break-in dvd on a regular dvd player be ok? i read how people are setting their dvd players to 720p while using the burn-in disc so does that mean they're using upconverting dvd players? i have a ps3, but i would rather not use it for the burn-in process...

found this in "Download break in dvd" pg6:

golddbz2000

Is there any particular reason i need to run the video output at 720p? I just have a simple dvd player that has the cheapo cables running from my new plasma to the tv.

applky

I think the idea is to use all the pixels of the TV, so 420p would be nice... But I think anything is better than nothing (I realize this is less than helpful. Sorry)

offthechizzain, I've been using DVD-R.

golddbz2000, 720p not necessary. Just hwo I ran it. Make sure it is occupying the full 16x9 screen though with now bars.

(Also here in this thread pg 82:)

Originally Posted by GWBadger
I can't see why the type of cables used really matter in terms of breaking it in. And standard DVD isn't HD regardless of the cables being used.

The main goals of plasma break in appear to be filling up the entire screen to age all phosphors at the same time, and moving images using different colors, shapes, etc.

It should not matter at all if it is RC, composite, component or HDMI.

Lower the settings below half, avoid static images and use full screen or zoom for the first 200 hours and you should be fine.

BasementBob

12-24-06, 05:09 PM

Plasma pixels are also subject to burn-in. On a CRT monitor, when the same image is projected for a very long time, it becomes permanently imprinted on the phosphor. After too long an exposure, when the image changes, the preceding one remains visible, as if it were engraved into the monitor. This phenomenon is due to premature aging of the scintillators. When they're used continuously, they age and become less efficient. Since plasma displays use scintillators, they're also subject to burn-in just like CRT monitors.

Under the normal use conditions of a television set, this is not really a problem, since the image being projected changes constantly, so the pixels age uniformly. But for certain business applications this can be an issue. For example, on a screen that displays the same TV channel 24/7, the channel's logo (CNN, NBC, MTV, etc.) will get burned into the display because it stays in the same place permanently. Also, where a plasma screen is used for static advertising displays, a fixed image projected over a long period can become burned into the panel.

This phenomenon is what limits the life of plasma displays. Contrary to legend, plasma screens don't leak and need to be recharged. But the scintillators do age, and unfortunately there isn't much that can be done about it. To make matters worse, not all scintillators age in the same way; the blue channel always ages quicker than the others (though that situation has improved compared to the earliest plasma panels.)

from: http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/03/09/lcd_or_plasma_/page7.html (which is a nice article, even if a year and a bit old)

Plasma gases decay over time, eventually creating a picture that is unusable or unappealing. This process of decay is slow and gradual. After roughly 1000 hours of usage, the plasma display should retain about 94% of its original brightness. After 15,000 – 20,000 hours of usage, the plasma display should retain roughly 68% of its original brightness. Part of this decay process is dependant on the contrast setting within the picture adjustments - the higher the contrast, the quicker the fade. By way of example, if one were to view a plasma for 3 hours a day, the device would be in usage for 13 years before it reached a point of significant diminished brightness (68%) and the half-life point of panel brightness would occur at around 20 years of usage (30,000 hours).from: http://www.elitemediasolutions.com/FAQs.html

The phospors dim at an inverse exponential decay rate.

So, basically, during the first hours (100 hours, 200 hours, 1000 hours), your set is going to change the fastest. There's no point in doing an ISF Calibration during the first 5 hours, since it'll be 6% dimmer, perhaps more in blue, within days.

And of course, hence the idea of using a lower contrast setting (the upper limit of how bright it displays) during the initial hours, because your set is brighter then. Also, if you watch black bar-ed content (4:3 or 2.35:1) during that period, it will reduce any different driven pixel effects, because even the brightest are not being driven their brightest possible (high contrast settings).

The break in dvd, is, as near as I can tell, is an optional optimizing tweak -- a way of guranteeing that during the initial hours that all the phosphors on the screen are driven equally, so that they all drop the same rate during the time they drop brightness the fastest. With any luck, this should end up with a plasma that's the most even colour after the 200 hours have past. That way you don't have a few pixels that are driving 6% brighter than the rest of the screen.
(Obviously, watching 4:3 content or 2.35:1 content is, well, going the other way. i.e. not driving all the pixels evenly)

It doesn't matter with the burn-in dvd if the plasma is driven at 480p, or 720p, or 1080i. All that matters is that every pixel is lit to the same brightness -- so set the plasma to expand the image until it fills the screen.

terryb28

12-24-06, 05:16 PM

It's not an attitude. It's discontent for people being too damn lazy to read through all the information that exists on this forum before asking a question. There's a million posts all asking the same question, all of them receiving the same answer. How terry isn't able to find break-in suggestions is beyond me. Since he's too lazy to read through all the information that exists here, I'll reply with some basic suggestions:

Instantpop, the holidays are a busy time for some. Unlike yourself, not everyone has sufficient leisure time to read every post in this forum. I'm relatively new to the site and to plamsa tvs in general. Just as I wouldn't assume by your snide, presumtuous remarks that you're a lonely, bitter, pompous individual resembling the comic store owner on the Simpsons, please don't assume that I'm lazy. I read through pages and pages of this thread and didn't find exactly what I was looking for, only morsels of information that begged more questions. Just as I would ask someone for directions if I found myself lost in an unfamiliar place, I figured it would be harmless to ask for some help here. You don't have to qualify the helpful information you provide with your snotty, juvenile commentary. If you're an adult, act like one. You wouldn't have the nerve to speak to a stranger like that face to face; have the self-control to act your age in this forum.

[/QUOTE]1. Turn your set's brightness and contrast settings down (contrast should be set to about 50%).

2. Phosphors are most susceptible to burn-in and image retention for the first 100 hours. Run content that is full screen, preferably HD, for that first 100 hours before starting to experiment with turning up your settings. For example, I ran Discovery HD for 100 hours straight before doing much of anything else with my set.

3. There's a Break-In DVD thread that allows you to download solid color blocks that rotate on DVD playback if you want to go that route. Suggestions for break-in on multiple sets exists in that thread, too.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. That's just the type of information I was looking for. Did you really need to bookend it with your snide comments?

[/QUOTE]This information is EVERYWHERE in this forum and isn't that hard to find. Most likely it exists in several places: this master burn-in thread and most certainly a thread that is dedicated to your make and model of tv. Next time search a little bit and read through the information like everybody else does before whining about how noone will help you or complaining about the attitude on this forum.[/QUOTE]

You just can't decide whether to be a helpful adult or an obnoxious little boy, can you? Must be draining.