ok, so I've been running discovery hd ovennight for the past few days or so to combat my FFXII status bar burn-in, and although the effect has decreased, I can still faintly see it whenever there's a flat yellow or white completely passing over the area.

does this mean I have permanent burn-in instead of temporary ghosting, or am I just being paranoid and need to have more disc hd running to let the IR wash out?

HALPPPPP!!!

ok, so I've been running discovery hd ovennight for the past few days or so to combat my FFXII status bar burn-in, and although the effect has decreased, I can still faintly see it whenever there's a flat yellow or white completely passing over the area.

does this mean I have permanent burn-in instead of temporary ghosting, or am I just being paranoid and need to have more disc hd running to let the IR wash out?

HALPPPPP!!!

Found This:


pg 73

About 30 hours later after noticing IR after playing Gears Of War on Xbox 360, I still see it there. I had reported it earlier in this thread btw. I've gone back to break-in setting on the input I use for Xbox. I have also limited gaming considerably to just under an hour a day with source change over between game rounds. It's better but for some reason I expected it to go away by now. My set has about 350 hours now and I spent 1st 200 carefully breaking it in. The IR is only visible against white or some very light background. Disappointed...
Your burnin kind of sounds like mine. It'll fade to almost nothing, but will still be there. But even on a white screen you would have to look so hard you'll go crosseyed just to see anything.....


I wouldn't worry about it at all. And the older your set gets, the less likely it'll happen again.


PG 76
Ok... there is a lot of confusion in this thread. One of the bigger ones is the interchanging of the terms/symptoms of Image retention and burn-in. Image retention can happen quickly- with just a few minutes of a bright image on the screen. It's generally visible when the TV is off, but not so much when it is displaying other images. The 'retained' image will appear BRIGHTER on a white screen. It is also very temporary. It will go away when other images are displayed for a few minutes (or by using the whitewash function that most PDP's have.)

Burn-in is the result of wearing out of the phosphor coating of the display. A plasma (and CRT) is illuminated by exciting phosphor in the pixels, which makes them glow. These phosphors have a finite life, and over time, they don't glow as bright when excited as they did when they are new. That's what the 60,000 hour rating is for. After 60,000 hours of typical use, the phosphors will only glow half as bright as they did when they are new. Essentially, the ENTIRE screen is burned it. The problem comes when you have static bright images- those phosphors age more quickly than the darker portions. Technically, displaying a static image for 1 minute causes burn-in, but your eye can't see it because those pixels are only 0.000001% darker (my silly numbers... not empirical.) Visible burn-in requires MANY hours of static image before it's noticeable. Falling asleep one night with ESPN on will not cause visible burn-in. That is most likely image retention.

I think a lot of the confusion is because of the term "burn-in". It implies that leaving a bright image on the screen too long overheats the screen, and that if you change it you allow it to cool off. In truth, if you put CNN on for a month, or alternate it every other day for 2 months, you will cause the same pixel wear.

pg 83


Originally Posted by mmilam
Hey everyone i have a quick question. I read the threads,
Last nite i was watching all kings men on bluray which is 1:85:1 so the movie filled up the whole screen, i have a pan th50px60u, but anyway, ive had about 10 hours worth of viewing time.
I fell asleep around 2am and the movie was still playing when i fell asleep, so imguessing the dvd menu came back on around 3:30 well when i woke up i turned off the ps3 around 7:00 or maybe 6:30.
Ive noticed that when nothing is playing on the screen, i now see the bottom part of the screen that says play movie, language, and scene selection.
If i watch tv of watch another movie or something, i dont see the image, only see it when nothing is playing on the screen.
Is this burn in or image retention?
How can i solve this, i heard leaving "snow" on your screen for a long time can get it better, is this true?
Also, i started the dvd break in dvd around 10:00am this morning and i think its still running while im at work.
Should i not risk it and try to return the tv and get a brand new one or this maybe is just going to fade away?
thanks....


most likely it will fade. let us know what the results of the burn in dvd are.

Hello. This is my first post on this forum.

My CRT projection TV has burn in. I was wondering if there was a place to download a DVD that displays a blank image in the middle 4:3 portion of the screen and colors on the side. I think it would be an effective way to wear the sides of the screen.

Does such a thing exist?

I think this place will help you. Ask this guy ( Evangelo2 ) he seems extremely helpful. Good Luck!

Pg 10 in download break in dvd

I should also have a disc to "reverse" burn in 4:3 static bars for those who have suffered from that type of image problem. I can't do much testing since I do not have this problem but I can make the pattern correctly

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583089&page=10&pp=30

The phosphors dim at an inverse exponential decay rate.

So, basically, during the first hours (100 hours, 200 hours, 1000 hours), your set is going to change the fastest. There's no point in doing an ISF Calibration during the first 5 hours, since it'll be 6% dimmer, perhaps more in blue, within days.



6% in 5 hours?

Your plasma perhaps, but not mine (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8609427&&#post8609427).

I have been monitoring the brightness of my set ever since I got it nearly two months ago. To an accuracy of about 1%, it has not changed at all. This after about 350 hours running at straight standard mode. In fact, assuming a single exponential decay with a half life of 50,000 hours it would take 725 hours to reach the 1% reduction mark and 4460 hours to get to 6%.

I have done experiments that indicate it takes about a 1.5% brightness variation to be visible. Thus it would take a solid 1100 hours of viewing letterbox material with black bars to get visible "burn-in" (and I am not talking about temporary image retention -- just uneven phosphor wear.)

Larry Hutchinson:
You misunderstood my sentence.
6% in days (latter half of the sentence).
It's bad to do an ISF Calibration within 5 hours. The idea is that if you do an ISF Calibration within 5 hours of getting the set, then a few days later you'll just need to recalibrate anyway, because it's dimmer.
At least that's what I've read.

Nifty testing ! :)

New to this whole HDTV process, so bear with me, how complicated/difficult is the breaking-in process? What would I have to do? Any links to guides or anything would be greatly appreciated.

New to this whole HDTV process, so bear with me, how complicated/difficult is the breaking-in process? What would I have to do? Any links to guides or anything would be greatly appreciated.


There are those here that would like to eat you for lunch to satisfy their egos.But never mind them...Its not difficult at all.

1-Get the break in dvd on page 1 first post.That link has a lot of good info as well.

2-Read the 2nd post on page 1.

3-instantpop would add this from page 83

Turn your set's brightness and contrast settings down (contrast should be set to about 50%).

Phosphors are most susceptible to burn-in and image retention for the first 100 hours. Run content that is full screen, preferably HD, for that first 100 hours before starting to experiment with turning up your settings. For example, I ran Discovery HD for 100 hours straight before doing much of anything else with my set.

Hope this helps for starters!

Hooked up 42" Plasma and love it. Question is.. Do I have to be concererned with Station Logos in corner of screen and burn in? Also are there any stations I should watch to clear screen eg. static display? thanks

Hooked up 42" Plasma and love it. Question is.. Do I have to be concererned with Station Logos in corner of screen and burn in? Also are there any stations I should watch to clear screen eg. static display? thanks
Panasonic has an excellent guide to breaking in your new PDP - just go their site. As for the corner logos. most I have seen are grey, and I read that grey will age about like the rest of the screen - thus minimizing IR (image retention).
That said - I am watching all dvd's while I break in my new set. Whether you do that or watch OTA, cable, or Dish/Direct - just fill up your screen and follow the Panny guidelines.

hi, im new to this forum and have a question about my panasonic 42px60u. i think my problem is IR not burn in, becuase its happened before and i just left the tv off al night and in the morning it was gone, but just got done watching espn for a bit and got closer to the tv to put a dvd in while the screen was black and still saw all the bars and letters and such. so i did some reading on here and changed my brightness and color and all those setting down to zero. it took me about 2 minutes to get everything changed right and when i exited the menu i saw that i could see its outline still on the screen as well as the espn stuff. so should i just keep my tv off and hope in the morning its gone or should i put in a movie to get rid of it? oh and i have had my tv since march and its on 6-8 hours a day so it is well past the 100 hour break in period and my color is set to cool.

grrr... it seems like no matter what I do (leave disc hd on all night, up the brightness, use different video channels) I cant seem to get rid of the what's probably now permanent burn in on my 4270. the whole situation is really bothering me, since this was a MAJOR purchase for me. does anyone have any other ideas about how to possibly fix this without actually buying a new tv (which i can't afford to do)?

grrr... it seems like no matter what I do (leave disc hd on all night, up the brightness, use different video channels) I cant seem to get rid of the what's probably now permanent burn in on my 4270. the whole situation is really bothering me, since this was a MAJOR purchase for me. does anyone have any other ideas about how to possibly fix this without actually buying a new tv (which i can't afford to do)?

I hope someone can help you out here.

Original post:

"ok, so I've been running discovery hd ovennight for the past few days or so to combat my FFXII status bar burn-in, and although the effect has decreased, I can still faintly see it whenever there's a flat yellow or white completely passing over the area.

does this mean I have permanent burn-in instead of temporary ghosting, or am I just being paranoid and need to have more disc hd running to let the IR wash out?

HALPPPPP!!! "

I was wondering since his burn in is in the color of yellow and white, what would happen if he used the break in dvd and paused it on the yellow for 30 minutes and then the white for 30 minutes.Going back and forth with those colors? Anybody have any ideas or luck with this approach???

hi, im new to this forum and have a question about my panasonic 42px60u. i think my problem is IR not burn in, becuase its happened before and i just left the tv off al night and in the morning it was gone, but just got done watching espn for a bit and got closer to the tv to put a dvd in while the screen was black and still saw all the bars and letters and such. so i did some reading on here and changed my brightness and color and all those setting down to zero. it took me about 2 minutes to get everything changed right and when i exited the menu i saw that i could see its outline still on the screen as well as the espn stuff. so should i just keep my tv off and hope in the morning its gone or should i put in a movie to get rid of it? oh and i have had my tv since march and its on 6-8 hours a day so it is well past the 100 hour break in period and my color is set to cool.

Is it gone yet??

I had IR from CNN Nancy Grace. We watched a couple of full sreen movies and I used the break in DVD for a little while and my screen is now clear.

Anyone else have some help for springy?

well i watched the thing last night then went to bed, now its just a very very fine outline on the bottom of the screen that you cant notice unless you're inches away.

this may be the dumbest question of all time, but: during the break-in period for the pioneer 4270, if i watched only movies in the 1.85:1 AR, would this be a good idea?

i'm assuming that 1.85:1 fills the entire screen without any black bars.

(i have 446 films on my netflix queue and could frontload all the 1.85s... but that would be some work, so i'm asking beforehand).

thanks~

this may be the dumbest question of all time, but: during the break-in period for the pioneer 4270, if i watched only movies in the 1.85:1 AR, would this be a good idea?

i'm assuming that 1.85:1 fills the entire screen without any black bars.

(i have 446 films on my netflix queue and could frontload all the 1.85s... but that would be some work, so i'm asking beforehand).

thanks~

Yes, that is fine, however, if you are not around when the movie ends, it will probably go to the menu screen, and that is bad for break-in, or even after break-in for that matter. Don't mess that up, it will not be pretty if you do.

Do you have Discovery channel HD? If so, set it for "full" or whatever your set calls it where the aspect ratio is correct (mine's a Panny). Discovery HD is almost certainly the best choice for hours of break-in.

Yes, that is fine, however, if you are not around when the movie ends, it will probably go to the menu screen, and that is bad for break-in, or even after break-in for that matter. Don't mess that up, it will not be pretty if you do.

Do you have Discovery channel HD? If so, set it for "full" or whatever your set calls it where the aspect ratio is correct (mine's a Panny). Discovery HD is almost certainly the best choice for hours of break-in.

I'll second Discovery HD. It's what I used to break-in my Pioneer and it was awesome. I learned a lot, too! lol.

what program do i use to burn the break in cd? i downloaded the zipped file now what? will it work on the oppo 970? i cant find it saying anywhere that it supports SVCD. if not then will it work on a 360? thanks guys im new to this stuff.

hey folks, i have heard from many people here and elsewhere that burn in /image retention is a real possibility with a plasma t.v., but moreso with the earlier plasma t.v's and not recent models. Well, i had some friends over last night and we played xbox 360 on my bedroom plasma-toshiba cinema series 42hpx95. We played for about 4 hours with many different games-madden, nba, gears of war, call of duty 3, we even played some techmo super bowl! anyhow-much to my satisfaction, there was ABSOLUTELY NO IMAGE RETENTION OR BURN-IN AT ALL. the tv is not used too terribly much, but has more than the break in number of hours on it, and the contrast and brightness are set to below half. So, to sum up-
1. xbox 360 looked awesome on the plasma screen-wow
2. I now agree with the people that think that image retention and burn in are WAY over-hyped as limitations to a newer plasma t.v-just lower your settings-which is what you should do to make the set look its best anyhow

Yeah, the paranoia can run deep. I've experienced a little bit of IR here and there with my Pioneer, but only after being in the character creation mode on Tiger Woods '07 on my PS3. That's the only time I have ever seen it and it's always gone within about a half hour. While IR is still a possibility on tv's of this nature, any kind of permanent burn-in would require some real stupidity on the part of the owner.

Yeah, the paranoia can run deep. I've experienced a little bit of IR here and there with my Pioneer, but only after being in the character creation mode on Tiger Woods '07 on my PS3. That's the only time I have ever seen it and it's always gone within about a half hour. While IR is still a possibility on tv's of this nature, any kind of permanent burn-in would require some real stupidity on the part of the owner.

Care to give examples of real stupidity?

Im a brand new owner of a Samsumg 50in Plasma HPS5073. Obsessively reading AVSForum for the past day. My contrast and brightness are turned below 50. Watching Discovery HD ... downloaded the break in dvd, but havent yet burned it.

My normal viewing is alot of sports (some in HD, others not) ... alot of ESPN, alot of movies, and as much HD broadcast networks as possible.

Care to give examples of real stupidity?
At the office: showing CNN from January until December, then having an 'Office Movie Night'. The CNN logo will probably be burned in by then.
At home: Watching 4:3 content with black bars (not grey bars) 16 hours a day for a year, then having a "Movie Night" -- the left/right parts (the 'bars') of the screen will be brighter than the middle.
At home: PS3 game with fixed lines everywhere at full contrast in a bright room. Play this every day for a month. Then having a "Movie Night" -- the lines will be reverse imaged over the movie.


Keep the contrast down, watch full screen content (or expand the image to fill the display), no static images such as station identification logos and end of DVD player manufacturer's screens -- and you'll be fine. Station identification logos and video game lines are fine as long as they're not there more than say 20% of the time (there's probably a formula involving contrast/time/age-of-set/type-of-set/etc -- but I sure don't know what it is). If you're a channel surfer, that handles the station identification logos. You should be able to set a 'screen saver' in your DVD player.

grrr... it seems like no matter what I do (leave disc hd on all night, up the brightness, use different video channels) I cant seem to get rid of the what's probably now permanent burn in on my 4270. the whole situation is really bothering me, since this was a MAJOR purchase for me. does anyone have any other ideas about how to possibly fix this without actually buying a new tv (which i can't afford to do)?

Not familiar with your story. Not sure about the 4270, a panny guy myself...

After looking at my TV, and now reading this thread...this sucks.

I noticed tonight my 4 week old Samsung Plasma HP-S4253 has uneven wear to the left and right of the screen. I was aware of "burn in" with plasmas, but the fact that I don't play games, connect the TV to a PC, and only watch 5 - 6 hours of programming or DVDs a week apparently left me with a false sense of security. I was not aware that watching 4:3 programming with the black bars was a problem, but now I do.

Anyway, here's what I have done, please let me know if there is something else that I can do.

I changed the factory picture settings from 93 contrast to 50, and left the brightness to 42, where it was already.
I changed the black bars to gray.
I am currently running a "Signal Pattern" function built into the TV that is supposed to help.

The TV will display 4:3 in full screen, but the settings are overridden by my HD-DVR box, which switches between full screen HD programming and 4:3 automatically.

Can I do any more to fix the problem? Thanks for you help, even if I should have visited this forum a month ago.

After looking at my TV, and now reading this thread...this sucks.

I noticed tonight my 4 week old Samsung Plasma HP-S4253 has uneven wear to the left and right of the screen. I was aware of "burn in" with plasmas, but the fact that I don't play games, connect the TV to a PC, and only watch 5 - 6 hours of programming or DVDs a week apparently left me with a false sense of security. I was not aware that watching 4:3 programming with the black bars was a problem, but now I do.

Anyway, here's what I have done, please let me know if there is something else that I can do.

I changed the factory picture settings from 93 contrast to 50, and left the brightness to 42, where it was already.
I changed the black bars to gray.
I am currently running a "Signal Pattern" function built into the TV that is supposed to help.

The TV will display 4:3 in full screen, but the settings are overridden by my HD-DVR box, which switches between full screen HD programming and 4:3 automatically.

Can I do any more to fix the problem? Thanks for you help, even if I should have visited this forum a month ago.

I hope you`re able to get rid of those lines.

Try this if you need a reverse burn in dvd.

from.....Evangelo2

I should also have a disc to "reverse" burn in 4:3 static bars for those who have suffered from that type of image problem. I can't do much testing since I do not have this problem but I can make the pattern correctly

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583089&page=10&pp=30


Let us know if this works!

Hello AVS,

Thanks to this forum I decided on a TH-50PX60u and love the picture. So far out of the box I watched Polar Express twice (in anamorphic) then read this entire thread along with a few others about IR and Perma Burn-In etc and about the "burn-in" process for the first 100 hours or so.

I got the bun-in dvd and will run it over the next few nights to get passed that initial 100 - 200 hour range. I will also make sure every thing else is utlizing the full screen as well.

Here are my qestions. No where in this thread did it really state what your exact settings should be for the initial burn in process. The only thing I read that has related to panasonic is set everything to 0. so here are my settings:

Normal No
Pic Mode Standard
Picture 0
Brightness 0
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharpness 0
Color Temp Normal
Color Mng Off
Video NR Off
MPEG NR Off
Black Level Light

What do yall think of these settings for the initial burn in period. One thing I have not read is the black level setting. The options are either light or dark, I chose light to make sure the phospherus is more active.

So what do yall think so far?

Plan for bun in now.
Watch all tv utilizing full screen mode then at night running the burn in dvd? THanks AVS

CHris

Hi all,

newbie here and have been reading the burn-in thread as much as I could since getting opening up a new TH-50PX60u last night.. was just wathicng SD on full screen and decided to turn down all the settings (Picture/Brightness to -30) and did some time on the Burn-in Disc last night and now starting the process again after turning off the tv for a few hours this morning. Similar to Outie, I am trying to find the "suggested settings" for the Burn-In process and haven't been able to find anything definitive.

So right now, my settings are a combination of "lowest" picture/brightness settings, as well as the "optimzied" settings suggested on the plasmatvguide.

Normal No
Pic Mode Standard
Picture -30
Brightness -30
Color -1
Tint -4
Sharpness -15
Color Temp Warm
Color Mng Off
Video NR Off
MPEG NR Off
Black Level Light

My other quesiton would be, if I burn in with the lowest- minimal settings for picture/brightness, would i actually do any harm as the burn in might not be as "efficient"? I figure since I am not watching it anyways during the burn in, I might as well turn the picture/brightness settings down as low as I can.

Thanks all in advance!

Over a year now...No burn in...No image retention...

Hey guys...It's been over a year now since I posted to this thread about my "potential" IR and burn-in problems...

For the post I made last year go here...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6615116&highlight=blave#post6615116

I bought my Panny 42Px500 more than a year ago, boy time does fly...And recently bought a Sony 46" XBR3 for my parents and a Samsung 32" LCD for my sister...I bought LCD's for them because of the bright lighting conditions they have the TV's set up in.

I still have my Panny and am planning to upgrade to a new SED display when they come out next year...As much as I like the Sony one I got my parents, I still love my Panny and it still beats the image quality of the Sony under low light conditions which is where I do most of my TV, game-play and movie viewing.

And with the 360 I picked up last year, I have now added a PS3 and Wii to the collection.

http://xe3.xanga.com/045d57171933498190845/z69007497.jpg
http://photos.friendster.com/photos/35/92/522953/450076269l.jpg

In the meantime I have been playing at spurts up to 5-6 hours at a time with my Xbox, Ps2, 360 and Gamecube. In addition I am a SportsCenter nut and watch both CNBC and the Today show religiously every morning before I head to work. And guess what? I have had no problems with any image retention or burn-in of any kind.

I frankly don't even worry about it anymore. I simply turn on my system and start gaming away. I've watched at least a hundred hours on end of movies with black bars both on top and bottom and have also played PS2 (Guitar Hero II) and Gamecube (Resident Evil 4) games which have the bars on the side because they were not meant for widescreen displays.

I have had zero, zilch, nada problems...So after over a few thousand hours of TV use and precautions that I took in the beginning, even though I did screw up by leaving my TV on full burn in the beginning, I have had no problems since.

If you take precautions and dial down the settings for that first 100 hours of use, when IR and Burn-in are most likely, you will be hard pressed to get burn in at all.

So my advice! Game away! And stop worrying about this IR and burn-in issue. Take it from a person who has been using a plasma for over a year now and am a heavy gamer. If you've had a CRT TV and never had burn-in problems with that, you will similarly not have any issues with your plasma.

Hey guys...

My display habits are as follows:

60% 4:3 anime
10% 16:9 anime
10% 16:9 dvds
5% 225:10 dvds
10% 4:3 gaming
5% 16:9 gaming

I'm concerned about the problem of burn-in should I get a plasma. The vast majority of my viewing will be 4:3 anime over an htpc. I'd prefer a plasma due to the better PQ over LCD, especially with darker content, but I'm worried about this. I don't want to switch to a 16:9 movie one night and have clear brightness differential between the border and center areas.

Would I be better served with an LCD or plasma?

Hello AVS,

Thanks to this forum I decided on a TH-50PX60u and love the picture. So far out of the box I watched Polar Express twice (in anamorphic) then read this entire thread along with a few others about IR and Perma Burn-In etc and about the "burn-in" process for the first 100 hours or so.

I got the bun-in dvd and will run it over the next few nights to get passed that initial 100 - 200 hour range. I will also make sure every thing else is utlizing the full screen as well.

Here are my qestions. No where in this thread did it really state what your exact settings should be for the initial burn in process. The only thing I read that has related to panasonic is set everything to 0. so here are my settings:

Normal No
Pic Mode Standard
Picture 0
Brightness 0
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharpness 0
Color Temp Normal
Color Mng Off
Video NR Off
MPEG NR Off
Black Level Light

What do yall think of these settings for the initial burn in period. One thing I have not read is the black level setting. The options are either light or dark, I chose light to make sure the phospherus is more active.

So what do yall think so far?

Plan for bun in now.
Watch all tv utilizing full screen mode then at night running the burn in dvd? THanks AVS

CHris


That's what I set it at. No problems.

I have the Breakin DVD R disc. Anybody know where I can get a Reverse 4:3 image (white sidebars with black in the middle) on a CD/DVD

do you guys think it would be ok to watch the sugar bowl tonight. Im getting a 9uk delivered between 10a-2p, and will proceed with wall mounting. I should be done in time to call my people over to watch my tigers roll over ND, but i feel a break in setting will have no wow factor and scoreboards and tickers right off the bat would be dangerous. any thoughts?

Keep the contrast down, watch full screen content (or expand the image to fill the display), no static images such as station identification logos and end of DVD player manufacturer's screens -- and you'll be fine. Station identification logos and video game lines are fine as long as they're not there more than say 20% of the time . If you're a channel surfer, that handles the station identification logos. You should be able to set a 'screen saver' in your DVD player.

dont now how you can avoid watching anything without the logo..almost all the channels use them now with the exception of movie channels and even some of those are starting now

After looking at my TV, and now reading this thread...this sucks.

I noticed tonight my 4 week old Samsung Plasma HP-S4253 has uneven wear to the left and right of the screen. I was aware of "burn in" with plasmas, but the fact that I don't play games, connect the TV to a PC, and only watch 5 - 6 hours of programming or DVDs a week apparently left me with a false sense of security. I was not aware that watching 4:3 programming with the black bars was a problem, but now I do.

Anyway, here's what I have done, please let me know if there is something else that I can do.

I changed the factory picture settings from 93 contrast to 50, and left the brightness to 42, where it was already.
I changed the black bars to gray.
.
my 4253 was already set for gray on on 4:3 right out of the box..i didnt know you could even switch it

dont now how you can avoid watching anything without the logo..almost all the channels use them now with the exception of movie channels and even some of those are starting now

I've got the Sammy 4273 and zoom/move the logos out nicely. The family doesn't even notice the difference, so that's cool.

A 4:3 picture converted to 16:9 stretches it to the sides. The next P.Size is Zoom1, this looks more like the original 4:3 picture but it fills the whole screen and just barely crops the top and bottom. From there I'll use the move function to move the picture down until the logos are gone. This usually re-centers the head shots and lets you see the top of the picture. If Zoom1 doesn't fully get rid of the logos I go to Zoom2 and that does, but it also stretches the original 4:3 image top and bottom.

I am almost through my "break-in" period, but for a lot of our general viewing (CNN, NickJR, and whatnot) I will still zoom out those nasty logos and news tickers.

Hi all,

newbie here and have been reading the burn-in thread as much as I could since getting opening up a new TH-50PX60u last night.. was just wathicng SD on full screen and decided to turn down all the settings (Picture/Brightness to -30) and did some time on the Burn-in Disc last night and now starting the process again after turning off the tv for a few hours this morning. Similar to Outie, I am trying to find the "suggested settings" for the Burn-In process and haven't been able to find anything definitive.

So right now, my settings are a combination of "lowest" picture/brightness settings, as well as the "optimzied" settings suggested on the plasmatvguide.

Normal No
Pic Mode Standard
Picture -30
Brightness -30
Color -1
Tint -4
Sharpness -15
Color Temp Warm
Color Mng Off
Video NR Off
MPEG NR Off
Black Level Light

My other quesiton would be, if I burn in with the lowest- minimal settings for picture/brightness, would i actually do any harm as the burn in might not be as "efficient"? I figure since I am not watching it anyways during the burn in, I might as well turn the picture/brightness settings down as low as I can.

Thanks all in advance!

I will soon receive shipment of my 9UK and have wondered about exact break-in settings as well as the break-in not being efficient if settings are too low. I am mainly concerned if they are set to well below negative and then are increased significantly for optimal settings once the break-in period is over would that major jump in settings be too bright too fast. So this is what I've decided to do. I will do a 200 hour break-in period starting with picture and brightness at -15. I will then gradually increase it so that at the end of the break-in period they are at 0. Simple and easy. ;)

Well my TV (42px60u) has 159 hours on it now. I have almost only been playing gears of war, and watching a few HD DVD movies and some OTA HD, but not much. After anything has been on the screen for a while, it stays there for a bit if I turn off the lights and go to a black screen and look for it. Ive played gears of war for 5-6 hours at a time (i know, probably not a good idea) and the ammo bar is real strong when Im done (IR) then after I play the break in dvd for a few hours, it slowly fades, but It seems that it will not completely go away ever. How long should I have to play the break in dvd to get it to go away? Or a full screen movie? If it does this so soon, imagine what it will be like after years of playing the same game...

Well my TV (42px60u) has 159 hours on it now. I have almost only been playing gears of war, and watching a few HD DVD movies and some OTA HD, but not much. After anything has been on the screen for a while, it stays there for a bit if I turn off the lights and go to a black screen and look for it. Ive played gears of war for 5-6 hours at a time (i know, probably not a good idea) and the ammo bar is real strong when Im done (IR) then after I play the break in dvd for a few hours, it slowly fades, but It seems that it will not completely go away ever. How long should I have to play the break in dvd to get it to go away? Or a full screen movie? If it does this so soon, imagine what it will be like after years of playing the same game...

Sounds like you should quit playing that game for a while and just use the break in dvd or full screen movies.Try 50-100 hours without it.I have read posts here from others that broke it in first then played games and haven`t had any trouble.Sounds like you may have been playing a little too soon.Don`t play it for a while and break it in completely first.Then monitor the I/R or Burn In and play accordingly.Good luck.

dont now how you can avoid watching anything without the logo..almost all the channels use them now with the exception of movie channels and even some of those are starting now

Some logos are much worse than others (e.g., ESPN's logo in bright white on their "bottom line"); ones that are quite transparent aren't much of an issue.

I will soon receive shipment of my 9UK and have wondered about exact break-in settings as well as the break-in not being efficient if settings are too low. I am mainly concerned if they are set to well below negative and then are increased significantly for optimal settings once the break-in period is over would that major jump in settings be too bright too fast. So this is what I've decided to do. I will do a 200 hour break-in period starting with picture and brightness at -15. I will then gradually increase it so that at the end of the break-in period they are at 0. Simple and easy. ;)

p3Orion,

Thanks for the input.. right now, after the first 10 hours of burn-in, I have moved my picture/brightness settings to both 0 (after using -30 initially).

I think your proposed gradual increase makes more sense.. but what I am wondering is what the "final" break in settings for Pic/Brigthness should be- should it be 0 like you said or more like +20/30 ish?

General question to the thread:

Also, regarding doing the Burn-in Disc, what is the general consense in terms of how long non-stop can I run the disc? Is it "safe" to run the burn in disc say over 10 hours? I did a 12 hr burn last night and just want some guidance in terms of what is a "safe" duration to run my 60U continuously.

Thanks all again

my 4253 was already set for gray on on 4:3 right out of the box..i didnt know you could even switch it

Okay…an update. Changing the black bars to gray was a very bad idea; things went from bad to worse. It turns out that most 4:3 programming doesn’t completely fill in the 4:3 area on the TV; the TV fills in the space with black. Instead of having two 3” wide marks on each end of the screen, I was left with two ½” marks about 3” from the end of each side, which looked worse. I re-read the owners manual and found this little tidbit on the inside cover that I had missed before:

“Wide screen format PDP Displays (16:9, the aspect ratio of the screen to height) are primarily designed to view the wide screen format full-motion video. Displaying stationary graphics and images on screen, such as the dark side-bars on nonexpanded standard format television video and programming, should be limited to no more than 5% of the total television viewing per week.”

So…I changed the TV format to stretch, which is normally overridden by the HD-DRV. I changed the HD-DVD “Native” settings to “off”, clicked “stretch”, and now my standard view programming is stretched, filling the screen with people who look short and fat.

The dark bars are slowly going away, so I guess the Earth will not crack in half after all.

Thank you for your tips on this matter; this site should be required reading before anyone hooks up their new plasma TV.

I bought a new TV and have already used it to watch about 30 hrs on it until I saw this thread. Question:

1. While I shall be playing the burn-in DVD overnight for the next little while to complete almost close to 500 hrs. I would like to know if it is okay to watch normal TV channels during evenings or should I just run the DVD all throughout the break-in period and avoid watching regular TV altogether?

I bought a new TV and have already used it to watch about 30 hrs on it until I saw this thread. Question:

1. While I shall be playing the burn-in DVD overnight for the next little while to complete almost close to 500 hrs. I would like to know if it is okay to watch normal TV channels during evenings or should I just run the DVD all throughout the break-in period and avoid watching regular TV altogether?Parry,
Please do some reading. I showed you where to find your answer when I replied to your duplicate post in the other thread.

Okay…an update. Changing the black bars to gray was a very bad idea; things went from bad to worse. It turns out that most 4:3 programming doesn’t completely fill in the 4:3 area on the TV; the TV fills in the space with black. Instead of having two 3” wide marks on each end of the screen, I was left with two ½” marks about 3” from the end of each side, which looked worse. I re-read the owners manual and found this little tidbit on the inside cover that I had missed before:

“Wide screen format PDP Displays (16:9, the aspect ratio of the screen to height) are primarily designed to view the wide screen format full-motion video. Displaying stationary graphics and images on screen, such as the dark side-bars on nonexpanded standard format television video and programming, should be limited to no more than 5% of the total television viewing per week.”

So…I changed the TV format to stretch, which is normally overridden by the HD-DRV. I changed the HD-DVD “Native” settings to “off”, clicked “stretch”, and now my standard view programming is stretched, filling the screen with people who look short and fat.

The dark bars are slowly going away, so I guess the Earth will not crack in half after all.

Thank you for your tips on this matter; this site should be required reading before anyone hooks up their new plasma TV.
thats weird..my samsung fills the entire unused portion of the screen with with gray..dont see any black..
as far as what you read in the manual..i read that too..what does 5 % per week come out to in daily viewing...

Would have been easier to get a plain simple answer. I read most of the thread but it does not say if the best practice it is to let the TV break-in or you are okay to watch regular TV in between the break-in period. I'm not lazy in reading but couldn't find that info yet

Would have been easier to get a plain simple answer. I read most of the thread but it does not say if the best practice it is to let the TV break-in or you are okay to watch regular TV in between the break-in period. I'm not lazy in reading but couldn't find that info yet
haven't read the thread you were referred to but..
i ran the break dvd whenever i was not watching tv..in other words the tv was powered on for the week with either normal tv on or the break in dvd running..i wanted to get through that 100 hr stuff quick so i could enjoy the set

Thank you.

Would have been easier to get a plain simple answer. I read most of the thread but it does not say if the best practice it is to let the TV break-in or you are okay to watch regular TV in between the break-in period. I'm not lazy in reading but couldn't find that info yetYour answer was there. You double posted your question, but did not read.

Hey guys...

My display habits are as follows:

60% 4:3 anime
10% 16:9 anime
10% 16:9 dvds
5% 225:10 dvds
10% 4:3 gaming
5% 16:9 gaming

I'm concerned about the problem of burn-in should I get a plasma. The vast majority of my viewing will be 4:3 anime over an htpc. I'd prefer a plasma due to the better PQ over LCD, especially with darker content, but I'm worried about this. I don't want to switch to a 16:9 movie one night and have clear brightness differential between the border and center areas.

Would I be better served with an LCD or plasma?

70% total 4:3? Get an LCD.

Guys: For breaking-in my Panasonic TV, can I just leave an HD channel (since it shall be full screen) on for over 100 hours..instead of the DVD or is the DVD preferred?

Guys: For breaking-in my Panasonic TV, can I just leave an HD channel (since it shall be full screen) on for over 100 hours..instead of the DVD or is the DVD preferred?I've heard of others doing just that, which should work also. I believe the theory behind using the DVD is that you can age the phosphors evenly since it cycles through each shade over the whole screen. That and you don't have to worry about channel logos. My belief is both would work well, I prefer the DVD way.

Guys: For breaking-in my Panasonic TV, can I just leave an HD channel (since it shall be full screen) on for over 100 hours..instead of the DVD or is the DVD preferred?

Yes, but use Discovery HD, which has almost no black bars, except for a commercial or two. Even their transparent logo doesn't stay on the screen long. Some other HD channels have 2:35:1 shows (black bars top and bottom), which you want to stay away from as much as possible.

How about using the DVD for overnight and then switch off the TV during the day time? or is it necessary to keep it running for over 100 hrs or so? Won't it blow up the TV if running continously?

How about using the DVD for overnight and then switch off the TV during the day time? or is it necessary to keep it running for over 100 hrs or so? Won't it blow up the TV if running continously? I can't say I've ever heard of a TV blowing up because it was on continuously too long. I think you're safe to leave it on as long as you want during the break in period. If you leave it on all the time after that, you are only decreasing your TV's life.

And what should the TV settings be. Lowest for everything?

Hi all,

Just bought an xbox 360 that I will hook to my Hitachi Plasma (300-400 hours of viewing already).

What games are good as far as avoiding burn-in?

What games should I avoid? Is there a decent NBA game for it that doesn't have a constant ticker type bar??

Thanks for any input!!

Mark

P.S. It came with NCAA FB 2007, Madden 06, FIFA 06, Tomb Raider, Lord of Rings, and Ridge Racer. They all OK?

I would say play them all. Test them out for an hour or two at a time and check for Image Retention (most likely there will be no problem with actual Burn-in providing you are responsible). If you see any IR after playing for an hour or two, turn the station to something full screen and see how the set reacts. If it goes right away, great. Test it out and see.... you may have no problem at all.

Few quick Question for the Pioneer 5070HD

1. what the max you would recommend running the HD Discovery for break in per day? 5 hours? 10? 15? Or can i just leave it on none-stop for the first 100 hours? Say do HD tv & hd movies during the day, then use the Burn in DVD during the night?

2. Is watching HD-DVDs like Mission Impossible HD the same as watching say Discovery HD for break-in & using the Break in DVD?

3. Is the whole point of Break-in to basically avoid static images and SD content in other words? Thanks mate!

Is i t just me or do the colors stay the same for about 2 min each? Thought it would go through all of them in around 2 min not 2 min each but what do i know!

hey, guys. got a really dumb "i don't have one of these tv's yet" question.

i was told by someone on this thread that watching 1.85:1 films during the break-in period would be a fine idea, as long as i didn't fall asleep and let the menu play all night.

well, the other day i actually divided 16 by 9 and realized this came out to 1.78:1. does this mean that i'll have to zoom in to avoid black bars when watching 1.85? i'm fine with slamming a bunch of european films during this period - i just want to make sure the screen is filled without compromising the composition.

thanks.

Just put up my 50inch Panny this weekend and have a question regarding logos.

We are in the "break-in" period with reduced pictures and my wife likes to watch "The Today Show," "VH1," and other shows that have logos.
Should I be concerned about this during the first 100 hours? Meaning, is it okay if the logo is up during the entire time before a commercial break?

I could have her zoom in the picture, but she hates that. I thought the logo is only up for a little while and then commercials clear it for a bit.

What do you guys think?

Little FYI from Panasonics Opening Press Conference this year at CES:

3:26 PM Panasonic working hard to dispel Plasma myths such as burn-in, recharge, etc. True, first gen panels had burn-in, but this is no longer an issue. Certainly no more so than CRTs. Plasma panels are also sturdier than LCD panels, particularly if you have kids.

Interesting as well as this:

3:18 PM Jeff Cove, VP and GM of business planning "Mac" Makita enter stage for mock interview. Pusing Plasma TV again based on 5 points: 1) best for sports since moving images on 720p plasmas look better than 1080p LCDs. 2) best for movies due to "blacker" blacks, 3) best for watching with friends due to wider viewing angle, 4) best choice for long-term use with improvments in prosphorous giving average of 60,000 hours to half-brightness... that's 27 years of viewing at 6 hours per day. And finally, 5) plasma is the most eco friendly solution since they are lead and mercury free.

How many consecutive hours should a breand new plasma be on, and running break-in DVD? Is it OK to do it for 24 hrs/day to break it in for the first 150-200 hours?

The model is Pio 5070hd

I've been breaking in my Panny TH-42PX60U for a week (app. 80-100 hours myself, although the service menu counter shows about 130...must have been some testing at the factory?)

First night I reduced my viewing settings to all 0's. Since the first or second night I've had it, I've been using the "color cycling" break-in dvd with the settings on -20 / -20 / -5 for picture / brightness / sharpness.

Three days into use (maybe 30 hours) I watched the Sugar Bowl. After just the 1st quarter (30 minutes) I checked the screen with no signal input and saw the scoreboard line at the top of the screen inverted. The "BCS / FOX" logo was clearly visible, and this was 30 minutes taking into account the commercials. After the 1st half, I turned it off (watched the rest upstairs...go Tigers!), and used the break-in DVD again that night. By morning, it was faded somewhat, but still visible. It's gone now as far as I know, but I swear I can just barely make out the horizontal line still...maybe my imagination.

After 1 week of break-in with my app. 80-100 hours of viewing / color-dvd, I see the image-retention with other static images seems to be less, but not gone. The morning news has a nice bright ticker and logo at the bottom of the screen. After 1/2 hour to one hour of this with commercials, you can see it fairly clearly with a black screen. I couldn't see it with a picture or against the grey / bright bars if I switched to the 4:3 view. Watching another program for a few minutes and commercial breaks did NOT eliminate it, as has been noted in other posts. About 15-30 minutes of the color-dvd seemed to lessen it a good bit (faded, but still noticeable in a room lit only by light from windows with slatted blinds...not bright light, but not dark).

My question: Is this typical? I have been lurking here since I got my set, and understand this isn't true burn-in, just image retention. I've also seen many people saying "I have no image retention whatsoever". Is that "no retention whatsoever" when looking at a no-signal screen, or with a signal? I haven't seen the image on the screen if I'm viewing something else, but I know it's there with the dark screen.

I haven't watched any dvd's with the black bars on the tv, haven't turned picture / brightness settings above 0's, and other than the news, haven't had anything like stock tickers. I do want to watch a stock market program or two and dvds, so my typical viewing habits would have an hour of stock ticker (with commercials) nightly, a couple of black-bar dvd's per week (2-3 hours each), news with the screen logos daily (2-3 hours max) and other shows nightly.

If my viewing habits need to change to protect the TV, I need a different TV. However, if the perceived "lessening" of the length of image-retention is a good sign, I'm glad, because the picture is incredible. Even SD signals look great on the all 0's setting.

So, comments? Is this the typical break-in routine, or is this possibly a lemon? I still have 2 1/2 weeks to bring it back, so I still have time to continue break-in and play.

Thanks for all the great information!

Inwo42,

As I myself have been doing hours and hours of research and owning two plasmas (TH-42PX60 and the TH-50PX60U), the break in dvd is to evenly age the phos. at its most "fragile" point. It DOES NOT prevent IR. Plasmas are inherent to get IR no matter what you do. IR is not a bad thing but incorrect agging of the phos in the beginning is. That is why you can follow a few simple rules and enjoy your plasma for the next 30 years:

1. Break the damn thing in for the first few hundred hours (some say they lose anywhere from 1 - 5% brightness in this time so it needs to be evenly aged)

2. Stretch that picture out - if your watching 4:3 material utilize the full screen so your phos "age" evenly and you avoid bright banners

3. Avoid static images - A football game is not a big deal, but leaving your tv on CSPAN with a ticker bar on it while your not watching tv 15/7 will cause issues.

4. Panasonic came out this year and dispelled the "burn-in" myth and said that only happened on there first gen tvs. (Read Above)

5. IR will occur its "natural" don't worry about it and enjoy your tv.

Panasonic did a 48 hour static white and black symbol test on a PX60U plasma (9th gen). After the 48 hour mark they killed the feed and guess what... IR like crazy, they described it as the feed was still on. they ran a color test DVD for 24 hours and the image was completely gone. They are simply trying to prove that plasmas are no more suceptiable to burn in as CRTs are.


I've been breaking in my Panny TH-42PX60U for a week (app. 80-100 hours myself, although the service menu counter shows about 130...must have been some testing at the factory?)

First night I reduced my viewing settings to all 0's. Since the first or second night I've had it, I've been using the "color cycling" break-in dvd with the settings on -20 / -20 / -5 for picture / brightness / sharpness.

Three days into use (maybe 30 hours) I watched the Sugar Bowl. After just the 1st quarter (30 minutes) I checked the screen with no signal input and saw the scoreboard line at the top of the screen inverted. The "BCS / FOX" logo was clearly visible, and this was 30 minutes taking into account the commercials. After the 1st half, I turned it off (watched the rest upstairs...go Tigers!), and used the break-in DVD again that night. By morning, it was faded somewhat, but still visible. It's gone now as far as I know, but I swear I can just barely make out the horizontal line still...maybe my imagination.

After 1 week of break-in with my app. 80-100 hours of viewing / color-dvd, I see the image-retention with other static images seems to be less, but not gone. The morning news has a nice bright ticker and logo at the bottom of the screen. After 1/2 hour to one hour of this with commercials, you can see it fairly clearly with a black screen. I couldn't see it with a picture or against the grey / bright bars if I switched to the 4:3 view. Watching another program for a few minutes and commercial breaks did NOT eliminate it, as has been noted in other posts. About 15-30 minutes of the color-dvd seemed to lessen it a good bit (faded, but still noticeable in a room lit only by light from windows with slatted blinds...not bright light, but not dark).

My question: Is this typical? I have been lurking here since I got my set, and understand this isn't true burn-in, just image retention. I've also seen many people saying "I have no image retention whatsoever". Is that "no retention whatsoever" when looking at a no-signal screen, or with a signal? I haven't seen the image on the screen if I'm viewing something else, but I know it's there with the dark screen.

I haven't watched any dvd's with the black bars on the tv, haven't turned picture / brightness settings above 0's, and other than the news, haven't had anything like stock tickers. I do want to watch a stock market program or two and dvds, so my typical viewing habits would have an hour of stock ticker (with commercials) nightly, a couple of black-bar dvd's per week (2-3 hours each), news with the screen logos daily (2-3 hours max) and other shows nightly.

If my viewing habits need to change to protect the TV, I need a different TV. However, if the perceived "lessening" of the length of image-retention is a good sign, I'm glad, because the picture is incredible. Even SD signals look great on the all 0's setting.

So, comments? Is this the typical break-in routine, or is this possibly a lemon? I still have 2 1/2 weeks to bring it back, so I still have time to continue break-in and play.

Thanks for all the great information!

Thanks for an informed response, Outie. When you talk about rules 2 and 3, are you talking mainly about during that critical 100+ hour break in period (1000 hours by some accounts) or in general for the life of the TV?

As a rule, I don't watch 4:3 content in that format. I stretch it out because it's much more pleasing to my eye. I get a little distortion at the sides, mostly noticeable during panning scenes where it looks like the screen has a "concave" effect, but not a problem with me.

Are the bright banners you mention the side bars from the 4:3 format, or banners such as the stock tickers and news banners?

Also, as a general note, it seems very difficult to avoid static images anymore. 90% of the channels have some sort of banner. Channels like VH1 are much worse offenders with opaque colorful banners. TBS I've found has a very transparent banner that almost disappears in certain scenes. I wish all stations would at least do the transparent / intermittent logos if they have to display them at all.

I think the other question that has been raised quite a few times in this thread, but never fully answered is: Do repeated cycles of the channel logos (or stock tickers, dvd bars, etc.) followed by wiping them with varied viewing have a cumulative effect?

And Panasonic, if you are listening, why couldn't you just put a nice little feature in that lets a user stretch a picture vertically manually? Widescreen movies in any format could fill the screen vertically (some distortion) and you'd get fewer complaints...use it if you want, don't use it if you don't want. You've already allowed it on the zoom feature to reduce the picture size (and get black bars).


Inwo42,

That is why you can follow a few simple rules and enjoy your plasma for the next 30 years:

1. Break the damn thing in for the first few hundred hours (some say they lose anywhere from 1 - 5% brightness in this time so it needs to be evenly aged)

2. Stretch that picture out - if your watching 4:3 material utilize the full screen so your phos "age" evenly and you avoid bright banners

3. Avoid static images - A football game is not a big deal, but leaving your tv on CSPAN with a ticker bar on it while your not watching tv 15/7 will cause issues.

4. Panasonic came out this year and dispelled the "burn-in" myth and said that only happened on there first gen tvs. (Read Above)

5. IR will occur its "natural" don't worry about it and enjoy your tv.

inwo42,

On the rule 1 and 2, I ment mainly for the initial break in period. Remember that the reason everyone talks about this period so highly is that it is the time believed where the phosphorus loses the most amount of brightness the fastest. What your trying to avoid is not necessarily burn in rather then color brightness occurring or lack there of.

After this period I think the 20% rule should be taken in consideration and followed loosely to a point, I mean you don't need to check your time used every hour just be smart lol. As in if your an avid QVC fan/shopper do not leave your tv running on QVC for 20% of the time its on ie for 100 hours don't go above 20 hours or much over that.

Now I agree with you that 90% of the channels have station recognition but there not always in the same spot near the same size and from what I have seen commercials usually wipe out any IR that the tag leaves behind.

As far as the cumalative effect, think of it this way, you have one phospherous bulb containg three smaller bulbs R,G,B - they age independently so to answer your question about wiping clearing the effect is a YES and NO answer. Will it clear the IR? YES - Will it clear the aging difference? NO it will add age to them all at the same pace.

So just follow the rules and you will be fine... want to watch a letterboxed movie? Go for it.. just dont watch 1000 of them in a row and expect your tv to not have bright bands at the top and bottom.

To simplify Id say if you just watch some type of full screen material more often then the other type you will be fine.

Thanks for an informed response, Outie. When you talk about rules 2 and 3, are you talking mainly about during that critical 100+ hour break in period (1000 hours by some accounts) or in general for the life of the TV?

As a rule, I don't watch 4:3 content in that format. I stretch it out because it's much more pleasing to my eye. I get a little distortion at the sides, mostly noticeable during panning scenes where it looks like the screen has a "concave" effect, but not a problem with me.

Are the bright banners you mention the side bars from the 4:3 format, or banners such as the stock tickers and news banners?

Also, as a general note, it seems very difficult to avoid static images anymore. 90% of the channels have some sort of banner. Channels like VH1 are much worse offenders with opaque colorful banners. TBS I've found has a very transparent banner that almost disappears in certain scenes. I wish all stations would at least do the transparent / intermittent logos if they have to display them at all.

I think the other question that has been raised quite a few times in this thread, but never fully answered is: Do repeated cycles of the channel logos (or stock tickers, dvd bars, etc.) followed by wiping them with varied viewing have a cumulative effect?

And Panasonic, if you are listening, why couldn't you just put a nice little feature in that lets a user stretch a picture vertically manually? Widescreen movies in any format could fill the screen vertically (some distortion) and you'd get fewer complaints...use it if you want, don't use it if you don't want. You've already allowed it on the zoom feature to reduce the picture size (and get black bars).

A lot of question on initial break-in. All those who did use the break method, are you satisfied with the results? Do you think the risk is less now? Waiting for some feedback on people who are on their 500+ to 1000+ hrs now..

Ok, so I just got my TH-50PH9UK in on Saturday, and have been running a mix of the Breakin DVD with various movies. I scoured this sight before I made my decision, and have taken all the necessary precautions to make sure this TV lasts me a long time.

I am so far loving everything about it. I only have one general question, as I have been reading a lot of people's various settings from the Picture settings and what they have them at.

In regards to Picture (Contrast), I see lots of people stating they have theirs set at (-10, -5) or other negative numbers. However, at least on my model, the setting for Picture does not go down below Zero. There is a max of 30, and a minimum of 0. Am I just making a dumb assumption that negative settings implies below the max of 30? The other settings (Brightness etc) all have a median of 0 with max and min at 30 and -30 respectively. Only Picture is different.

Right now, I have my brightness at -10, Picture at 0, and everything else zeroed. As for the display settings, I plan on moving brightness back to 0 in a few weeks as I run the breakin dvd and movies. However, with Picture (Contrast), should I leave it at Zero, or slide it up to the default setting (30) with age? I notice under the template setting of Dynamic, this setting is maxed at 30, which makes me think it is the default setting.

Sorry this may seem like a confusing question, but any help or clarification would be greatly appreciated.

I couldn't find any conclusive posts of "plasma safe" logos for the break in period. I don't had HD cable yet so..... is National Geographic OK in SD cable? are there better channels? or should I just stick to the reak-in DVD?

BTW, I never realized everyone has f-ing logos.

BTW, I never realized everyone has f-ing logos.

I know that feeling. Now it seems all I notice is whether the channel has a small, unobtrusive, transparent logo, or a large, irritatingly bright, opaque logo.

It's sad to say it, but even though the risk of true burn-in seems to be low based on the "general" viewing habits most people have, the level of anxiety I've been feeling in regards to "keep the brightness down", "no bars", "no static images" has me wishing I had brought an LCD home instead.

Of course, I wouldn't have the wonderful black levels and incredible contrast, but I wouldn't be on my way to a nervous breakdown because my wife likes Food Network and HGTV.

At this point, I'm guessing the best bet is:

1. Follow the break-in "rules" (lots of good information from a lot of knowledgeable people).

2. Realize the prices have come way down and we didn't pay as much as the earlier adopters.

3. You still have your receipt and should hit your 200-300 hours within 30 days!

I found a hard time weeding through the BS to get to conclusive guidlines on beaking-in.

So, are teanslucent grey logos like TNT alrtight or better than say Comedy Central?

Just got my new Samsung HP-S4273 set up. I downloaded and burned the "break-in DVD" thinking to run it overnight until the set reaches 100hrs, as recommended in this thread.

Now after reading the HP-S4273 manual I found that this Samsung comes with a feature that helps erase effects of IR or burn-in, which is basically a gradient running accross the screen, from right to left. The manual recommends to run it for at least an hour to wipe out any IR or reduce effects of burn-in (that is only when you see IR that is bothering you, of course, not as a preventative measure, or as an initial break-in).

I am thinking this gradient pattern is actually a great way to break-in the TV. I think this way is even better than what the "break-in" DVD does. As the gradient moves across the screen (about 15 seconds for it to get from right to left), each pixel basically gradually goes from pure black to pure white, and it's repeated for as long as you want (until you press a remote button). You can pretty much just leave it running overnight.

What do you guys think? Although it's not exactly the same as a break-in DVD from this forum, does it achieve the same goal? Is it a better method? I am thinking Samsung engineers came up with this pattern, so it must be the most effective way to do it (in their educated mind at least). For other brands that do not have this feature, it would be very easy to create a DVD that does the same thing.

Just got my new Samsung HP-S4273 set up. I downloaded and burned the "break-in DVD" thinking to run it overnight until the set reaches 100hrs, as recommended in this thread.

Now after reading the HP-S4273 manual I found that this Samsung comes with a feature that helps erase effects of IR or burn-in, which is basically a gradient running accross the screen, from right to left. The manual recommends to run it for at least an hour to wipe out any IR or reduce effects of burn-in (that is only when you see IR that is bothering you, of course, not as a preventative measure, or as an initial break-in).

I am thinking this gradient pattern is actually a great way to break-in the TV. I think this way is even better than what the "break-in" DVD does. As the gradient moves across the screen (about 15 seconds for it to get from right to left), each pixel basically gradually goes from pure black to pure white, and it's repeated for as long as you want (until you press a remote button). You can pretty much just leave it running overnight.

What do you guys think? Although it's not exactly the same as a break-in DVD from this forum, does it achieve the same goal? Is it a better method? I am thinking Samsung engineers came up with this pattern, so it must be the most effective way to do it (in their educated mind at least). For other brands that do not have this feature, it would be very easy to create a DVD that does the same thing.

That sounds like a good feature. Not sure about that for break-in though since its main purpose is to get rid of IR.

I still say that simply running Discovery HD theater as loong as you can everyday is the best break-in procedure. I used it and ran my Panny with it about 16-18 hours per day. I was done in just about 5 days. Not too bad.... and YES, I did watch some other shows mixed in as well so I did get some enjoyment out of the TV during break-in.

See what others say, but I'd rather do break-in with actual images and TV content...

Just got my new Samsung HP-S4273 set up. I downloaded and burned the "break-in DVD" thinking to run it overnight until the set reaches 100hrs, as recommended in this thread.

Now after reading the HP-S4273 manual I found that this Samsung comes with a feature that helps erase effects of IR or burn-in, which is basically a gradient running accross the screen, from right to left. The manual recommends to run it for at least an hour to wipe out any IR or reduce effects of burn-in (that is only when you see IR that is bothering you, of course, not as a preventative measure, or as an initial break-in).

I am thinking this gradient pattern is actually a great way to break-in the TV. I think this way is even better than what the "break-in" DVD does. As the gradient moves across the screen (about 15 seconds for it to get from right to left), each pixel basically gradually goes from pure black to pure white, and it's repeated for as long as you want (until you press a remote button). You can pretty much just leave it running overnight.

What do you guys think? Although it's not exactly the same as a break-in DVD from this forum, does it achieve the same goal? Is it a better method? I am thinking Samsung engineers came up with this pattern, so it must be the most effective way to do it (in their educated mind at least). For other brands that do not have this feature, it would be very easy to create a DVD that does the same thing.

I used it. I got to 200 hours in just two weeks. Generally running full screen programming with the logos "Zoomed and Moved" out while watching; and, when I couldn't keep an eye on the TV, I just put the signal pattern wipe on and left it there. Usually when I was out of the house for any length of time. I figure it couldn't hurt. It really works great for IR.

In the initial stages I was going to the menu A LOT! So, naturally I noticed some menu IR. The wipe took care of it completely.

Now that she is broken in I don't even notice IR. The other day I watched over 4 hours of programming on the same channel with the same logo in the corner, and there isn't even a hint of IR.

Hi guys, my first post on this forum and thank you all for all the valuable information I found here.

I have a question: I received my first plasma yesterday( Pio 5070 ) and downloaded break-in cd.Now I am I little confused which settings should I run for break in? It's connected directly from DVD player (oppo 981) to TV via hdmi. I found D-Nice's settings but I think those are specifically when using cable box. I am not using anything else now except DVD player.

Please help me, trying to break in TV in correct way.

Thanks

When on a black screen on the plasma like changing from HDMI to Input 1, I can see the outline of menu screen. Is this IR or burn in? Also should I use the reverse feature or the white feature on the Toshiba? And how long should I keep it on these features?

The plasma is about 6 months old and has lots of hours on it.

Thanks in advance..

That's likely the temporary IR everyone mentions. It'll most likely go away in a few minutes of watching anything.

Honestly, I don't care if it's just temporary, the fact that it's there bugs the heck out of me. I used the THX Setup routine to do some preliminary adjustments to my Panasonic PX60U and the 5-10 minutes to do that gave the worst screen full of IR I've seen, and I have about 150 hours on the TV. It was the first time I've actually seen a retained image while viewing something else (saw a horizontal line at the top of the picture).

For me, all the IR goes away with time, but I still feel we shouldn't have to put up with babying the TV just to watch it.

The Fox "Live", "Moving Forward in Iraq" banner, and G.W. Bush's outline were clearly glowing on my set after about 20 minutes of his speech (IR was visible on a screen with no input). The IR didn't show up in the picture, and most of it was gone within 10 minutes of watching something else. It's still a pain, though.

If you don't see it watching what you watch, and you don't have issues with "knowing" it's there, IR probably isn't going to be a problem for you.

Everyone says that 1:85 movies should have a thin black line on the top of bottom of the screen. My 50px60u, though, doesn't show any lines and I have it set to "full." Why is that?

I have been watching 1:85 movies during break-in, but now am worried I might have had think black lines up for a long period of time.


Also:
For those of you who play 360...did you absolutely wait to play until you were past that 100hr mark? I'm sure I'm past 40, but my cravings for Gears of War are taking over.....should I hold out a while longer or play for a few minutes to satisfy my urge :)

Also:
For those of you who play 360...did you absolutely wait to play until you were past that 100hr mark? I'm sure I'm past 40, but my cravings for Gears of War are taking over.....should I hold out a while longer or play for a few minutes to satisfy my urge :)Play the game - just keep an eye on it after use to see if you get any IR, which even then should not be a problem.

Everyone says that 1:85 movies should have a thin black line on the top of bottom of the screen. My 50px60u, though, doesn't show any lines and I have it set to "full." Why is that?
There are black bars for 1.85:1 since its a little bit wider than the native 1.78:1 on the screen. The reason you don't see them is the overscan settings on your TV zoom them out. If you don't see them, then you shouldn't worry about them.

The 60u doesn't allow you to adjust overscan except through the service menu which is very dangerous to play with and could void the warranty. I don't recommend it.

On the commercial panels, you can easily adjust overscan which would allow you to see black bars.

That's likely the temporary IR everyone mentions. It'll most likely go away in a few minutes of watching anything.

Honestly, I don't care if it's just temporary, the fact that it's there bugs the heck out of me. I used the THX Setup routine to do some preliminary adjustments to my Panasonic PX60U and the 5-10 minutes to do that gave the worst screen full of IR I've seen, and I have about 150 hours on the TV. It was the first time I've actually seen a retained image while viewing something else (saw a horizontal line at the top of the picture).

For me, all the IR goes away with time, but I still feel we shouldn't have to put up with babying the TV just to watch it.

The Fox "Live", "Moving Forward in Iraq" banner, and G.W. Bush's outline were clearly glowing on my set after about 20 minutes of his speech (IR was visible on a screen with no input). The IR didn't show up in the picture, and most of it was gone within 10 minutes of watching something else. It's still a pain, though.

If you don't see it watching what you watch, and you don't have issues with "knowing" it's there, IR probably isn't going to be a problem for you.

Cool thanks I could not figure it out and it looks alot better today. Have a good one and thanks again.

There are black bars for 1.85:1 since its a little bit wider than the native 1.78:1 on the screen. The reason you don't see them is the overscan settings on your TV zoom them out. If you don't see them, then you shouldn't worry about them.

The 60u doesn't allow you to adjust overscan except through the service menu which is very dangerous to play with and could void the warranty. I don't recommend it.

On the commercial panels, you can easily adjust overscan which would allow you to see black bars.

Thanks for the explanation!

What exactly is overscan?
Also, if fiddling with the service menu has the potential to void the warranty, how are we allowed to check the exact hours on our viewing time? Isn't this number in the service menu?

Thanks for the explanation!

What exactly is overscan?
Also, if fiddling with the service menu has the potential to void the warranty, how are we allowed to check the exact hours on our viewing time? Isn't this number in the service menu?

Overscan is a setting where a TV zooms in a little on picture so you don't see the edges. This is done because different NTSC sources are not always centered the same. With overscan, you won't see the edges when a certain tv program is off center a little bit.

Check with Bruzzi on the service menu and warranty

Am I corect to say that Black bars buring the break-in period would cause those areas of the screen to be lighter or less-used than the part of the screen that contains video?

Thanks for the explanation!

What exactly is overscan?
Also, if fiddling with the service menu has the potential to void the warranty, how are we allowed to check the exact hours on our viewing time? Isn't this number in the service menu?

I don't think we are "allowed" to check exact hours ;) but it's good information and the service menu is the only way to get it. It takes just a few button clicks, and as long as you don't start dancing on your remote while in the service menu, you should be allright.

I've had my Panasonic TH50PX60U for about 3 weeks now and yesterday I noticed that about 1/4 - 1/5" on the right hand side of my screen was not being filled becuase of a faulty cable box. Not sure how long it has been happening but anyways now that part of the right side of the plasma screen is much brighter than the rest of the screen becuase nothing has been filling the space. When I turn the plasma off I can very easily see that 1/4 - 1/5" vertical space and can also see it when viewing programs as that area is much brighter due to non-use. Is this image retention or burn-in? I'm not sure how it could be either since nothing has been shown in that space and I'm hoping it will just wear in now that it is fixed. This could have been happening the entire time I've had the plasma (since 12/23/06). From day 1 though I have had the picture setting and brightness turned down to 0, which is belive is 50% on this plasma. Any responses will be appreciated :)

Play the game - just keep an eye on it after use to see if you get any IR, which even then should not be a problem.


I did play the game for about 2 hours tonight and was aware of permanent HUDS. I kept changing the screen to bring up different menus, etc, so that one logo wasn't permanently there for 2 hours.

I did notice some slight IR when I was done. Only saw it on a black screen with no input. I ran TV for about 10 min before bed and it didn't go away. I presume the IR will go away over time.

IR in and of itself doesn't bother me since you can't see it when you are watching something. However, I am concerned if I continue to play this game (only 2 hours out of a 6 hour day of the tv being on), that the temporary IR will turn to Burn-in....does this happen?

I am concerned if I continue to play this game (only 2 hours out of a 6 hour day of the tv being on), that the temporary IR will turn to Burn-in....does this happen?
15% is the general rule of thumb to avoid burn-in. If the TV is on for 6 hours a day, no more than 1 hour should be spent playing the same game.

15% is the general rule of thumb to avoid burn-in. If the TV is on for 6 hours a day, no more than 1 hour should be spent playing the same game.I surely don't follow that. In 1 hour I am just getting into Gears of War. Average session is about 4 hrs. I did break my set in, but even before I finished that I played at least 2 hrs a night. No IR here. My set may be less susceptible to IR, but I surely wouldn't worry about BI.

XboxEboy - Get a good hour of television programming run on the set and check it. If it's still there, run the tv for a bit more and check. This way you'll get to know how your set reacts. Hopefully as your set ages the IR resistance will build up. Don't be afraid to give it a good test run. Besides, what good is the set if you can't enjoy GOW? :D

15% Rule comes from the Panasonic White Paper on Burn-in. YMMV

I surely don't follow that. In 1 hour I am just getting into Gears of War. Average session is about 4 hrs. I did break my set in, but even before I finished that I played at least 2 hrs a night. No IR here. My set may be less susceptible to IR, but I surely wouldn't worry about BI.

XboxEboy - Get a good hour of television programming run on the set and check it. If it's still there, run the tv for a bit more and check. This way you'll get to know how your set reacts. Hopefully as your set ages the IR resistance will build up. Don't be afraid to give it a good test run. Besides, what good is the set if you can't enjoy GOW? :D


How did you know it was GOW I was playing :) Best game ever.
Anyway, I will run an hour or two of tv when I get home and check the set. If, after 1 or 2 hours, the IR is completely gone, is it safe to assume that I can play again for 1 or 2 hours?

Or, is IR like a bruise, that if it is healing, and you hit it again, it will only get worse? I'm just wondering if the IR for that blasted ammo meter will get more an more "strong" and eventually either be visable when watching TV or lead to burn-in?

I am disillusioned with the "15% rule". My wife watches the news in the morning (has a news ticker and station logo in a box at the bottom), we go to work, watches the news / Food Network at night (potentially the same box / station logo on the news, definitely one on Food Network and HGTV), followed by something like CBS / ABC. With that typical routine during the week, that's probably about 45% / 55% with the input sources.

Even with those commercial breaks, 10 minutes of the news leaves a retained image of that logo and ticker on the screen (when viewed with no input). A 3 minute commercial break doesn't wipe it out. I watched CNBC for about 20 minutes this morning, and then about 1/2 hour of anything else without a ticker (full screen). The ticker was still fairly visible.

IR goes away generally, but I see that as excessive, especially when other people talk about 2 hours of Xbox with 10 minutes to completely wipe the IR out.

To balance my rant out, can someone give me a brief list of potential pitfalls of an LCD (not black levels or dead pixels out of the box)?

How did you know it was GOW I was playing :) Best game ever.
Anyway, I will run an hour or two of tv when I get home and check the set. If, after 1 or 2 hours, the IR is completely gone, is it safe to assume that I can play again for 1 or 2 hours?

Or, is IR like a bruise, that if it is healing, and you hit it again, it will only get worse? I'm just wondering if the IR for that blasted ammo meter will get more an more "strong" and eventually either be visable when watching TV or lead to burn-in?There are some things I can't explain - I just know these things. :D

Run it and let us know what you see. There will be different opinions on this, but I think that your 1-2 hours or more shouldn't hurt it over a long period of time. After all, you will be doing other things on it than just GOW, right? I guess if you constantly had IR with no relief period in between, say for months at a time, I suppose it could be an issue - but I can't say I know this from experience. I myself would rather enjoy my investment and get the most out of it that I can than be so concerned with with IR that I couldn't do so. May sound ignorant to some, but like I said, what good is having one of these great sets and not being able to enjoy it to the extreme. :)

There are some things I can't explain - I just know these things. :D

Run it and let us know what you see. There will be different opinions on this, but I think that your 1-2 hours or more shouldn't hurt it over a long period of time. After all, you will be doing other things on it than just GOW, right? I guess if you constantly had IR with no relief period in between, say for months at a time, I suppose it could be an issue - but I can't say I know this from experience. I myself would rather enjoy my investment and get the most out of it that I can than be so concerned with with IR that I couldn't do so. May sound ignorant to some, but like I said, what good is having one of these great sets and not being able to enjoy it to the extreme. :)

I'm in the EXACT same camp of you. IR will not bother me in the slightest as long as it doesn't turn to Burn b/c the whole reason I bought this TV was to enjoy movies and my 360!

I have to work for 3 hours tonight, so my wife will have a good amount of time to play a movie and tv, so I'll definitely report back!

What's your Gamertag? We should hit up some co-op or versus on GOW!

Same as my screen name - Kr8z1. I must post a disclaimer: I'm not very good at it right now, just got the game for Christmas (which is what I have to tell my teamates online). Still need to put in more practice. ;) At this point I'm much stronger at COD 2 which may not be saying much against those who spend all day online. :) (you know, the ones with the burnt-in plasmas! :D ) What's your tag? XboxEboy?

Same as my screen name - Kr8z1. I must post a disclaimer: I'm not very good at it right now, just got the game for Christmas (which is what I have to tell my teamates online). Still need to put in more practice. ;) At this point I'm much stronger at COD 2 which may not be saying much against those who spend all day online. :) (you know, the ones with the burnt-in plasmas! :D ) What's your tag? XboxEboy?

Yep...I'll send you a friend request tonight. COD2 is my 2nd favorite game (and the one I'm second best-at!) However, I haven't played it in about 6 months, so I am rustier than a burned-in plasma.

There are some things I can't explain - I just know these things. :D

Run it and let us know what you see. There will be different opinions on this, but I think that your 1-2 hours or more shouldn't hurt it over a long period of time. After all, you will be doing other things on it than just GOW, right? I guess if you constantly had IR with no relief period in between, say for months at a time, I suppose it could be an issue - but I can't say I know this from experience. I myself would rather enjoy my investment and get the most out of it that I can than be so concerned with with IR that I couldn't do so. May sound ignorant to some, but like I said, what good is having one of these great sets and not being able to enjoy it to the extreme. :)

Great news. I left my tv on for one hour while walking McGyver, and came back to check it. Although it was still bright out (making it harder to see the IR), I cupped my hands around the tv, turned it to a black input, and saw NO IR from last night! So, I feel very safe to play 2 hours of GOW!!!!!! HURRAAAAYYY!!!!

Even when I adjust the picture after break-in, I'll probably have lower settings similar to break-in for game-playing, though.

Excellent. That's great to hear!

Is there a device that can subside or remove the broadcasting TV's logo's before the feed reaches my TV? Wouldn't mind looking at it..Thanks

Ok, so I still haven't brought myself to return the Panny 42PX60U, and I'm giving it whatever workout I can (within reason).

I kicked a couple of settings up (+3 picture, +2 brightness - used the THX Setup for some quick settings) and got a beautiful picture with LOTR (lots of dark scenes to show off a picture). I watched about half of it in "Full" mode (black bars on the top and bottom) and half on "Zoom" mode. When I switched to Zoom, I could make out the lines where the bars ended in Full mode during dark scenes. They were only noticeable for a few minutes, but are still there on a dark screen, after basically 1 1/2 hours of full screen viewing.

In general, is a true "screen burn" is a darkening of certain pixels, and you see the reverse image of what you watched? I saw a lighter area in the middle and darker on the bars, indicating the same type of image retention I've been bothered by so far. The borders of the bars had a darker shadow, but after a little while, the screen looked a uniform color (black or white) except for that thin line where the border of the bars was.

Also, for those who have had this set and had IR issues, how long was it before they became neglible or completely gone?

I am disillusioned with the "15% rule". My wife watches the news in the morning (has a news ticker and station logo in a box at the bottom), we go to work, watches the news / Food Network at night (potentially the same box / station logo on the news, definitely one on Food Network and HGTV), followed by something like CBS / ABC. With that typical routine during the week, that's probably about 45% / 55% with the input sources.

Even with those commercial breaks, 10 minutes of the news leaves a retained image of that logo and ticker on the screen (when viewed with no input). A 3 minute commercial break doesn't wipe it out. I watched CNBC for about 20 minutes this morning, and then about 1/2 hour of anything else without a ticker (full screen). The ticker was still fairly visible.

IR goes away generally, but I see that as excessive, especially when other people talk about 2 hours of Xbox with 10 minutes to completely wipe the IR out.

To balance my rant out, can someone give me a brief list of potential pitfalls of an LCD (not black levels or dead pixels out of the box)?

If your contrast/picture and brightness settings are higher, you will get IR easier and it will take longer to go away. Perhaps the examples of the 2 hours of xbox are on plasmas that have the settings dialed down.

here is a quick and dirty list of the negatives of LCD vs Plasma

- Higher Black Level
- Slower response time
- Lower optimal viewing angle. Extreme angles decreases black level
- Price per square inch in 42" and above (This is likely to be equal to plasma in the next year or 2).

I play my 360 on "Break-In" settings of "0s" across the board. It still looks great. If I play for two hours at a time, 1 hour of that is on "Zoom" the other on "Full" to make sure the tickers, HUDs, etc. change position.

Although I usually notice FAINT IR on a blank imput screen, with 1 hour of full, non-logo media displayed, all IR is gone.

My suggestion?
While watching the news, etc, Zoom in every other commercial break.

IR is real on new plasmas, even at low contrast settings it's a pain to deal with. You won't always see it on a white screen.

I got a PDP-4270HD, it is about 150 hours into break in. I've been running King Kong/Chronicles of Riddick at max Zoom to wear the phosphors once or twice a day on standard contrast/brightness, and when I play games, I use the game setting (Contrast 15, Brightness 0, all other settings at 0) with either Power Save1 or Save2 which dims the panel further.

Over the last 2 days, I've been playing N3 on my Xbox360. I use the GAME mode on the TV. This game has a nasty super bright HUD with your health represented by a yellow circular bar in the lower left. It also has the word KILLS in the lower right. Whenever you are playing N3, except for the cutscenes/missionbreaks, that HUD is always on.

At first I thought it wasn't a big deal, since whenever I turned the Xbox off I never saw any shadows on a black signal-less screen. This weekend, I played for 2, ~4 hour sessions. In between them I watched Tomb Raider in HD and Million Dollar Baby in HD.

So anyways, today I decide to watch some HDTV, which I've been avoiding like the plague because of the logo's. A commercial comes on for a Samsung flip phone, and they use a bright solid yellow background. I start reading the fine print when I notice some words in the solid yellow background. At first I was like 'nice subliminal advertising', but then I read the word Combo and Max combo and say to myself 'I've seen those before' Then I check the lower left part of my screen and I can see that goddamn circular hp hud from N3.

I open up MSPaint on my computer to make full images of the primary colors, put it on a flash drive, then plug it into my Xbox360 to bring up a full yellow picture and bam, I can CLEARLY see the nasty IR because those yellow phosphors were constantly on. On top of that I can see other IR from some other Xbox360 games I've played. I can see the Lancer gun logo from GoW as well as the Gear/MPH from PGR3 HUD... both of which I haven't played for 2-3 weeks.

This morning I plugged in one of my computers to my plasma TV and have been running Jscreenfix with high contrast/brightness for about 8 hours. While this lessened the IR a bit, it is still visible. Here's an picture from a digital camera where you can see the IR. Look in the lower left for a circular shadow. If you have real sharp eyes, you can probably also make out the GoW Lancer icon in the upper right. It is slightly more noticeable in person, especially from an angle.

home.comcast.net/~lodrin/IRisreal.jpg

Anyways, I'm going to keep running Jscreenfix for a bit, and then maybe watch a movie and see if that clears it up a bit.

My eyesight is failing I know but I can't see anything, can you indicate with arrows or something???

I highlighted what you should be looking for in red, go back to the original image to see the faint shadow of "worn" green phosphors.

home.comcast.net/~lodrin/IRisreal2.JPG

Yup, thought I saw it in the first pic, and the second with the red highlighting it confirmed it.

Let us know if you can resolve that.

:cool:

If your contrast/picture and brightness settings are higher, you will get IR easier and it will take longer to go away. Perhaps the examples of the 2 hours of xbox are on plasmas that have the settings dialed down.

here is a quick and dirty list of the negatives of LCD vs Plasma

- Higher Black Level
- Slower response time
- Lower optimal viewing angle. Extreme angles decreases black level
- Price per square inch in 42" and above (This is likely to be equal to plasma in the next year or 2).

I ran my break-in sessions at -20 picture / -20 brightness / -5 sharpness, rest at 0 (adjusted Standard mode). Everything else was viewed at 0's across the board.

Is that too low for break-in? Obviously, the IR I'm getting comes from viewing at 0's all the way down (adjusted Cinema mode).

One good session of the break-in DVD at 0's across the board got rid of the IR as far as I could see.

I noticed one pixel that seemed to be "off". When viewed straight on, it was ok, but as I viewed at an angle from up close (looking for IR) on a blank screen, it seemed to be "off-center" from where it should be, like a stuck pixel. Is that something that happens at times, and does it go away naturally?

like some other people around here, i am having trouble getting the svcd burned properly, and also have the oppo 970 here, still sealed in the box. the box gives no indication it will play svcd.

i'm probably getting the pio 4270 tomorrow and will break everything out and see if the cd i burned works (i have no ability to burn the dvd). my current excellent dvd player told me there was no content on the disk, though my computer showed the nrg file.

i did a search and read extensively, but i didn't find too much help on this topic. i saw a lot of the same question without feedback. so i'll try, too.

thanks for the help!

Yup, thought I saw it in the first pic, and the second with the red highlighting it confirmed it.

Let us know if you can resolve that.

:cool:

According to the "15% rule", I'll have to loop a DVD or snow my plasma at max contrast/brightness for 6x my viewing period. So, about 36 more hours? Kinda lame.

I'll update in 36 hours.

Hi all,

I bought a plasma in December and have left it on with the break-in DVD running for almost 2 months now. My roommate and I play a lot of video games, and I ask him to take breaks in between 2-3 hr sessions.

My question is...after I reach the 1000 hr mark, is this something I should still worry about?

Thanks!

Ok, now I'm definitely seeing a stuck / dead pixel. I've noticed about 3 or so that are not visible from head-on, but viewed from the side (close) you can see they are darker at certain angles.

One pixel, however, is darker from head-on and is visible from about 4-5 feet. Obviously, it's not something that will affect normal viewing, but the fact that it's cropped up and I only have about 200 hours on the set is not a good thought. Do plasmas develop dead pixels like this? Are they reversible?

What I was told by my local hi fi store is that excited pixels (in plasmas if always Red, green or Blue) or he did not say what if black .. probably dead will show up the first time that the TV gets powered on and you should not develop more over the life of the TV. With Plasma once the cell gets power it either works until the gas runs out or it doesn't.

So the pixels should have been that way since day one and you don't (should not) have to worry about any more popping up unlike DLP and LCD that can crop up any time.

I have one excited pixel and it is always red. If I am looking for it on the screen when it is a constant white screen from about half of my seating position I can see it, but from my seating postion it is not visible.

So if it is an excited pixel nothing you can do about it. Except be happy that you should not get any new ones. or check with the manufacturer about there policy on the pixels maybe there is enough to get the set replaced. You never know.

Hi all,

I bought a plasma in December and have left it on with the break-in DVD running for almost 2 months now. My roommate and I play a lot of video games, and I ask him to take breaks in between 2-3 hr sessions.

My question is...after I reach the 1000 hr mark, is this something I should still worry about?

Thanks!

By breaks, the TV needs to run something different. Playing 10, 1 hour sessions of Gears of War over 10 days without viewing anything in between is the same as running GoW for 10 hours ... as far as Image Retention goes.

By breaks, the TV needs to run something different. Playing 10, 1 hour sessions of Gears of War over 10 days without viewing anything in between is the same as running GoW for 10 hours ... as far as Image Retention goes.

Yeah, that's what we've been doing. I'm talking about after the 1000 hours. I think we can be less careful, but how much less careful?

The 100-1000 hour rule according to Panasonic is 1:5. 1 hour IR content to 5 hours of non-IR content.

How the phosphors dim in each panel after 1000 hours depends, that ratio can probably go to 1:2, maybe 1:1. You will need to adjust it to your panel depending on the IR you see. Make sure you have the simple tools to really check IR. A solid white screen or a solid black screen won't cut it (see my post above, that IR is only visibile on yellows and some reds)

Use a dark room, and images of solid color all over the spectrum. You can make your own using MS paint and either use a flash drive or CD drive and view them via your Xbox. Slide show through those colors.

- If you see IR, lower the IR content you view and raise the non-Ir content/washing.

- If you don't see IR, keep the ratio or do more non-IR content.

Hey Lodrin,

I evidently have the same problem you do. Although mine has to do with Gears of War where the lancer/ammo is displayed.

I hadn't noticed it at all watching tv or dvds. Or on any other color than yellow. And even then, if I hadn't known where to look, I would not have noticed it under a casual view.

And here I thought IR wasn't going to be a problem with my 5070. Alas!

I did play that damn game for about 12 hours in the last 4 days with maybe 6 hours of the tv being on non-IR material.

So, I am running the color break in cd right now to see if that will help. I am really interested to hear your results.

I also have the Gears of War icon on my screen as well in the upper right on a yellow full screen image, but it's not as pronounced as the N3 hud because I haven't played it for like a week and a half. Noticeable though on a yellow image, along with some PGR speedometer (I play PGR using the generic cockpit).

I do see the N3 circular hud when watching movies and even on the Xbox360 logo screen, though I highly doubt someone who walked in on my TV would notice it. It is a very faint shadow.

I stopped using JScreenfix after about 12 hours at Contrast 50/60, Brightness +20 at maximum power (yeah, fierce...) and decided to loop Serenity HD-DVD at my ISF settings (Contrast 32, Brightness +5) I'll probably loop it for a total of 24 more hours before going back to Jscreenfix for another 12 hours session. I'm hoping combined that I have to strain my eyes to see that IR.

As far as Serenity goes... on one of the scenes where the ship is flying , the N3 hud is obvious when the yellow engine wash covers occupies the lower left of the screen. A casual observer wouldn't see it, but I personally hate being conscious of it.

I really hate the idea of having to babysit my plasma till the 1k hour mark, but I personally despire LCD's.

is all that should be on the cd-r the unzipped .nrg file? i gave this a try the other day and the player said "no data on disc."

thanks.

For anyone who has had IR issues during that first 100 to 1000 hours and has gone past the 1000 hour mark (my question is specific to the Panny PX60U but can be generalized as well):

Have the IR issues gone away or lessened to the point that you can't see them? After 220 hours, I'm still seeing IR from the news logo and ticker at the bottom of my screen after 5 minutes of the broadcast, and it doesn't go away without about 30 minutes to an hour of other viewing. It may not be all that visible with something else on the screen, but as the previous poster noted, certain times (i.e. yellow screen) the IR may be quite visible.

Have you noticed the IR lessening in intensity or taking longer to give a retained image? Does it take less time to go away after it's there?

inwo42- I have the same IR problems as you w/ my 42px600u. I have about 300hrs on the set so far. I too am wondering if this still happens after the 1000hr mark. IR doesn't make dvd or tv viewing very pleasurable. Even if it is a socalled non issue, just seeing it is bothersome.

wrong post

For anyone who has had IR issues during that first 100 to 1000 hours and has gone past the 1000 hour mark (my question is specific to the Panny PX60U but can be generalized as well):

Have the IR issues gone away or lessened to the point that you can't see them? After 220 hours, I'm still seeing IR from the news logo and ticker at the bottom of my screen after 5 minutes of the broadcast, and it doesn't go away without about 30 minutes to an hour of other viewing. It may not be all that visible with something else on the screen, but as the previous poster noted, certain times (i.e. yellow screen) the IR may be quite visible.

Have you noticed the IR lessening in intensity or taking longer to give a retained image? Does it take less time to go away after it's there?

On my Sammy HPS4273 (350 hrs.) I have noticed a significant decrease in IR. If there is a very bright object or scene on the screen and it all-of-the-sudden goes to black, there is a noticeable bit of IR, but it goes away almost instantly. I would assume it will keep getting better as the phosphors age. I don't seem to have quite the issue that you have with IR.

Ghosts/temporary IR that goes away in a matter of seconds is not really IR, it's just residual electrical charge.

Ghosts/temporary IR that goes away in a matter of seconds is not really IR, it's just Residual Electrical Charge.

Ahh... the old REC. Yes, I think I can hear another thread starting on the subject. :D :D :D

I still have my IR after 24+hours of DVD playing (lol @ Pioneer white paper.)

I'm switching to Ultraviolet as my loop DVD, that movie has a TON of deep, rich color scenes.

Hi,

I got my Pio 427XA yesterday and played a bit of Oblivion on my Xbox 360 with it today. I guess it was about 5 to 6 hours (I now realize that was pretty stupid). I thought I had my settings turned down, but apparently they were only turned down for the regular tv channels and not the alternate input channels (scart, hdmi, component). So, you guessed it, whenever there is no signal on my tv I can see some bars in the lower left corner and something in the bottom of the screen. I am 99% sure this is from the game I played today. I can only see it if I'm right on it, not when I'm a couple of feet away, and also not when there something else playing.

Does any one have enough information to determine if this is IR or burn-in? And either way, is there something I could do about it?

Thanks,

The simplest/dumbed down way to explain IR/Burn-in is with this analogy.

When you compare someone who is 5 years old and 10 years old, it's huge difference. The 10 year old is TWICE As old as the 5 year old. The 10 year old is probably alot bigger then the 5 year old too. There's absolutely no way someone can mistake a 10 year old for a 5 year old and vice versa.

Now, lets fast-forward 60 years ahead. Compare someone who is 65 and someone is 70. That difference isn't that big anymore, both of those people are just flat out old (no offense to any ye old folk on these forums) and chances are you can't really tell the difference.

Plasma phophors are the same way. By having a HUD on your screen, you aged those elements faster then the rest. The pixels under your HUD are "10" and the ones that were constantly in motion are at like "5." The "10"'s are dimmer and thus very noticeable (more noticeable on colors the human eye is more sensitive too.) There's no confusing them.

Basically you need to 'age' the phosphor elements uniformly by playing a full motion image so that all the phosphor elements age together. You do this with by looping a DVD with no static imagery for about 5x as much as you played it because your hud had one solid color for awhile, and motion video has varying colors (this goes down the older your panel gets.) This will age all the phosphors 'somewhat uniformly' Once they all get into their 70's or 80's, the differences won't seem as big.

On top of that, you can also add in the fact that older phosphors age 'slower' (meanwhile younger phosphors are aging faster), everything eventually catches up.

Eventually, all the phosphor elements get so old that it's really hard to get burn in. Could you tell the difference between a 1000 year old rock and a 1010 year old rock ANYMORE then a 1000 vs 1050 year old rock just by looking at it? No.

I hope that helps a bit, someone can help correct me if my analogy isn't that good.

The simplest/dumbed down way to explain IR/Burn-in is with this analogy.

When you compare someone who is 5 years old and 10 years old, it's huge difference. The 10 year old is TWICE As old as the 5 year old. The 10 year old is probably alot bigger then the 5 year old too. There's absolutely no way someone can mistake a 10 year old for a 5 year old and vice versa.

Now, lets fast-forward 60 years ahead. Compare someone who is 65 and someone is 70. That difference isn't that big anymore, both of those people are just flat out old (no offense to any ye old folk on these forums) and chances are you can't really tell the difference.

Plasma phophors are the same way. By having a HUD on your screen, you aged those elements faster then the rest. The pixels under your HUD are "10" and the ones that were constantly in motion are at like "5." The "10"'s are dimmer and thus very noticeable (more noticeable on colors the human eye is more sensitive too.) There's no confusing them.

Basically you need to 'age' the phosphor elements uniformly by playing a full motion image so that all the phosphor elements age together. You do this with by looping a DVD with no static imagery for about 5x as much as you played it because your hud had one solid color for awhile, and motion video has varying colors (this goes down the older your panel gets.) This will age all the phosphors 'somewhat uniformly' Once they all get into their 70's or 80's, the differences won't seem as big.

On top of that, you can also add in the fact that older phosphors age 'slower' (meanwhile younger phosphors are aging faster), everything eventually catches up.

Eventually, all the phosphor elements get so old that it's really hard to get burn in. Could you tell the difference between a 1000 year old rock and a 1010 year old rock ANYMORE then a 1000 vs 1050 year old rock just by looking at it? No.

I hope that helps a bit, someone can help correct me if my analogy isn't that good.

If this analogy is correct, then there seems to be mass-hysteria for nothing here... There should be a separate thread or something for people that list their burn-in experiences after, say, 1000 hours. The problem is that there will be some kind of adverse selection, where only people that are discontent with their burn-in will post here. If there is no problem anymore there might be little incentive for those people to post their follow-up stories.

Either way I'll let you guys know about my IR/burn-in. I have left full screen TV (no HD yet) without logos playing for about 4 hours after my gaming session yesterday and turned the tv on again just now and really have a hard time seeing the IR/burn-in anymore. I'd be amazed if some one who didn't know it was there would spot it. Then again, I haven't shined a light on a black signal on it (as some one else suggested) yet so perhaps it is still very visible then.

Can I conclude that the difference between burn-in and IR is that IR goes away within a couple of minutes and burn-in does not? The way the image itself looks with both effects is the same?

The burn-in that does not go away, from what I read, had something to do with the way old phosphors would leave some type of residue/dust on the actual glass cell that would build up and block/interfere with every color that came out of that pixel cell IF they were engaged for too long. There was no physical way of removing that 'residue', thus it was deemed permanent. However, this problem has been defeated. Burn-in now refers to uneven phosphor wear.

For the most part, my analogy is true, but remember the more you accrue the IR, the longer it will take to go away and that ratio of used to not-used-so-much phosphors will stay lopsided longer. If you play Gears of war for 50% of the time of your panels life, then for the first 6-12 months of your panel's viewing time, you will 'suffer' the IR of the gun logo in the upper right. While that's not "permanent" (you can reverse it with reverse imagery/loopdvd,) you essentially have 'burn in' for those 6-12 months.

Generally speaking, products are supposed to be at their best during their first year of service. If I want to play Gears of War alot, I have two options with my new plasma panel.

1) Suffer the IR (which is significant on some scenes)
2) Lower my overall plasma life/brightness by looping a DVD which I won't watch to wash/age my panel

Both of those options are lose/lose. I either suffer a poor image, or I have to dim my panel. That's a permanent setback.

I created a little test dvd that will (hopefully) help prevent image retention and help ensure even phosphor aging after watching a lot of 2.35:1 movies. More info here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=791901

I am picking up the panny 42px60u. I plan on using it for hdtv, dvd's and xbox360. From what i hear the break in period is essential. I don't plan on using the xbox on it till at least 100 hours and maybe more. Would it help significantly to just us it a couple hours a day watching tv and maybe running a white or gray screen through the night to age the phosphors more evenly and also speed up the break in process. I know IR will go away after awhile but i would hate to spend that kind of money for a tv and be pestered with something easily avoidable. Anyone with any thoughts on how to properly break in a plasma, you input would be greatly appreciated.

hey was exploring my tv's options the other day (pio 4270) and discovered that one of the PIP options plays like a fully connected split screen with grey bars above and below. if i set both channels to no signal, they go black.

it looks just about perfect for a reverse 2.35 burn prevention. unfortunately, it doesn't alternate colors, but it's better than nothing. i watch a lot of cinema and prefer not to mess with the picture, so this might work for me. i unfortunately can't burn dvds yet.

I'd like to refer people doing plasma break-in to post 751 in this Pioneer plasma discussion:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731242

Basically the guy has break-in advice from an engineer at Pioneer to *not* turn down contrast/brightness during break-in. Apparently, at Pioneer they even run the panels for 50 hrs before shipping with slightly *higher* settings.

A very interesting discussion follows that post, which includes the idea that not everyone needs to do a break-in. This would explain why Pioneer manuals don't even mention a break-in period.

If you are watching content that evenly wears the phosphors (full screen, no static imagery), yes, you should run the set at normal or heightened contrast/brightness during a break in period... It's when you watch STATIC imagery that you tone down the settings.

Unfortunately more than 50% of content people use a TV for contains some form of static imagery, whether its

4:3 SDTV
2.35:1 Movies
TV with Logos (SD/HD)
Games w/huds

The only time you won't watch IR causing content is watching 1.85:1 (native or stretched) DVD's.

I'd like to refer people doing plasma break-in to post 751 in this Pioneer plasma discussion:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731242

Basically the guy has break-in advice from an engineer at Pioneer to *not* turn down contrast/brightness during break-in. Apparently, at Pioneer they even run the panels for 50 hrs before shipping with slightly *higher* settings.

A very interesting discussion follows that post, which includes the idea that not everyone needs to do a break-in. This would explain why Pioneer manuals don't even mention a break-in period.
What D-Nice is basically saying. While you run the Break-in DVD, turn the contrast up to accelerate the break-in process. I totally agree.

But, If you watch anything with a static image, turn the contrast down.

I did some math to demonstrate that uneven phosphor wear in these new 60,000 rated panels might not be that big of a concern, even in the 1st 100 hours.

Assuming a constant rate of brightness decay, for a 60,000 hour half-life panel the rate of brightness loss is approximately 0.1154578% for every 100 hours of even usage.

Based on the above, this table shows how brightness decays over the first 1000 hours of use.


Bright %Lost Hours
100.0% 0.1155% 0
99.88% 0.1153% 100
99.77% 0.1152% 200
99.65% 0.1151% 300
99.54% 0.1149% 400
99.42% 0.1148% 500
99.31% 0.1147% 600
99.19% 0.1145% 700
99.08% 0.1144% 800
98.97% 0.1143% 900
98.85% 0.1141% 1000

For the first 100 hours, you lose 0.1155% brightness.
Between 900 and 1000 hours, you lose 0.1141% brightness.

That's only a 0.0014% difference in the amount of brightness lost. Pretty miniscule if you ask me.

Using the same formula after 3000 hours of usage which is 375 days, 8 hrs/day. Brightness decreases only 0.1115% per 100 hours. That's only a 0.004% less than the amount of brightness it lost in the first 100 hours. Again a relatively small difference.

I also heard somewhere which I can't remember that uneven phosphor wear is detectable by the eye when there is at least a 2.5% delta in peak brightness between adjacent pixels. Using the rate of decay above, it would take 2,200 hours before this could happen. Think about it, 275 days before burn-in sets in.

Granted that the assumptions are very broad, but this data definitely supports the guys that state that burn-in is no longer an issue with plasmas.

I have about 200 hours on my 50PH9UK. I see zero burn-in and I have black bars a plenty from the get-go.

Love to hear opinions on this.

Assuming a constant rate of brightness decay

But it isn't constant/linear, is it? Not an expert, but I though it was accelerated early in the life of the screen?

But it isn't constant/linear, is it? Not an expert, but I though it was accelerated early in the life of the screen?

It is accellerated early in the life. I took that into account.

Check out my numbers. It shows an accelerated rate early on. It's just not as drastic as you might think.

It is accellerated early in the life. I took that into account.

Check out my numbers. It shows an accelerated rate early on. It's just not as drastic as you might think.

Gotcha.

It is accellerated early in the life. I took that into account.

Check out my numbers. It shows an accelerated rate early on. It's just not as drastic as you might think.

According to this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731242&page=26&pp=30

it's more around 2-3% during the first 100 hours and a 5-11% during the first 1000 hours. Not sure where they got their numbers or you got yours -- I don't know if there's actual posted plasma decay rate charts out there, but those numbers would make for a much more visible problem in the early hours of your display.

According to this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731242&page=26&pp=30

it's more around 2-3% during the first 100 hours and a 5-11% during the first 1000 hours. Not sure where they got their numbers or you got yours -- I don't know if there's actual posted plasma decay rate charts out there, but those numbers would make for a much more visible problem in the early hours of your display.

My numbers are based only on the 60,000 half-life figure. it's all I have to go by.

I got the rate from this Excel function. Similar to compounding interest.

=-RATE(600,0,-100,50)

600= # of 100 hour chunks in 60,000 hours
100= initial brightness value
50= final brightness value

Eh, I don't think that's as clear a picture as it should be.

The reason your numbers won't work all the time is that the 60,000 half-life figure is based on varied viewing. That means you get a bunch of red images, a bunch of green, a bunch of blue, a bunch of white, a bunch of black, and a bunch of mixed. If you have static imagery that equally uses all phosphors, then yes, that 60k curve is fine

However, what happens if you watch a sports show that uses BLUE logos? Lets assume you watch that sports show NON-stop. Do you think it'll take 60,000 hours to get to half blue brightness? No. That'll fade considerably quicker.

If you ran a static blue image, I wouldn't use 60,000 ... think maybe 15k, or 20k

So, the old Bruzzi web link with the instructions on how to check your viewing hours (Panny) is broken. Anyone have the step by step for a TH-42PX60U?

thanks,

g

Eh, I don't think that's as clear a picture as it should be.

The reason your numbers won't work all the time is that the 60,000 half-life figure is based on varied viewing. That means you get a bunch of red images, a bunch of green, a bunch of blue, a bunch of white, a bunch of black, and a bunch of mixed. If you have static imagery that equally uses all phosphors, then yes, that 60k curve is fine

However, what happens if you watch a sports show that uses BLUE logos? Lets assume you watch that sports show NON-stop. Do you think it'll take 60,000 hours to get to half blue brightness? No. That'll fade considerably quicker.

If you ran a static blue image, I wouldn't use 60,000 ... think maybe 15k, or 20k

OK, replacing 60K with 15K in my formula I get the following.

- 0.46% total loss of brightness after the first 100 hours
- 0.44% loss of brightness between 1000 and 1100 hours - again not much less than during the initial break-in period.

- 4.52% total loss of brightness after the first 1000 hours
- Between 500 and 600 hours to achive 2.5% loss in brightness (noticable burn-in).

Even with these numbers, 500 hours of static image to get burn-in still doesn't look bad at all.

Will be accepting delivery on a Panasonic TH-42PX60U next week. Plan to crank down settings and follow break-in suggestions posted in this forum but will be well short of the 100+ hrs mark by the Super Bowl. Will the game be "watchable" with the "break-in" setttings? Or could I tweak the settings for good PQ for the game (only) without lasting harm with only about 25 hours of break-in? Or am I just paranoid? :eek: Thanks very much.

I am a recent Panny plasma owner (50/60u).

I started out SO worried about IR/Burn-in. I did the 100 hour break-in, etc.

When I played my first 360 game, I freaked out to see some IR when I was done after only an hour of gaming.

It went away after an hour of regular full-screen tv.

Then I freaked again when I saw some IR from "HD Net's" SOTU address. Again, the logo went went away after about an hour.

Then last night, I noticed the same degree of IR from a 2 minute Bose commercial. The BOSE logo had IR when I turned the set off.

So no matter if it is 2 min or 1 hr, IR will be there at first, but after an hour or less, it goes away.
I am no longer worried about IR.

That's not to say I will game hours on end or watch 2:35 movies nonstop, but I won't freak out anymore about IR/Burn issues and I hope you guys are doing the same.

Will be accepting delivery on a Panasonic TH-42PX60U next week. Plan to crank down settings and follow break-in suggestions posted in this forum but will be well short of the 100+ hrs mark by the Super Bowl. Will the game be "watchable" with the "break-in" setttings? Or could I tweak the settings for good PQ for the game (only) without lasting harm with only about 25 hours of break-in? Or am I just paranoid? :eek: Thanks very much.The game should be watchable during break-in, but there should be no problem if you want to crank it up for the game. Don't be paranoid. Enjoy your new tv.

Wow, I am stunned at how easily the Panasonics can get IR. I mean, after a 2 minute commercial and there is IR, after a single show????????????? Crazy. I love the panasonics, I love the picture quality, etc. but I have a newer Pioneer and I watch shows with logos for hours (the same show, say 2 hours long) no problem. I play xbox games, for hours, same game, with a static hud. No problem. Never once had IR. I can't believe some of you are getting IR after a commercial? :confused:

Will be accepting delivery on a Panasonic TH-42PX60U next week. Plan to crank down settings and follow break-in suggestions posted in this forum but will be well short of the 100+ hrs mark by the Super Bowl. Will the game be "watchable" with the "break-in" setttings? Or could I tweak the settings for good PQ for the game (only) without lasting harm with only about 25 hours of break-in? Or am I just paranoid? :eek: Thanks very much.

I got my Panny 2 weeks before the Super Bowl last year, and watched it with no problem. I have never had any problems with IR. Enjoy!

Wow, I am stunned at how easily the Panasonics can get IR. I mean, after a 2 minute commercial and there is IR, after a single show????????????? Crazy. I love the panasonics, I love the picture quality, etc. but I have a newer Pioneer and I watch shows with logos for hours (the same show, say 2 hours long) no problem. I play xbox games, for hours, same game, with a static hud. No problem. Never once had IR. I can't believe some of you are getting IR after a commercial? :confused:


Well, keep in mind 2 things. 1) My set is BRAND new. Just over 100 hours. I presume IR is a little more likely now than in 1000 hours or so.

2) What I am calling IR is basically this: I have to change the tv to a blank input screen (black) and then turn off all the lights and stare at the TV about a foot or less from where the "IR" is. Only then do I see faint outlines.

I have a Samsung 4253 and have only experience IR a few times. The first was within the first 20 hours of my tv. I had watched a football game of NBC with contrast and brightness turned up pretty high (rookie mistake, I know, but I'm new to this stuff). I could still see the shape of the peacock logo on a screen that was all one color.

I was freaked out when this happened and that's actually when I found this board when doing a search on burn in on plasmas. Reading the posts here calmed me down as I realized it was probably just IR. The IR went away completely in about a week. I have noticed IR twice more, both after watching football games on Fox and CBS. These were gone within minutes after watching something else. I now have about 200 hours on my tv and I am not worried about IR that much anymore. I figure you'd almost have to try to permantly damage your screen.

Well, keep in mind 2 things. 1) My set is BRAND new. Just over 100 hours. I presume IR is a little more likely now than in 1000 hours or so.

2) What I am calling IR is basically this: I have to change the tv to a blank input screen (black) and then turn off all the lights and stare at the TV about a foot or less from where the "IR" is. Only then do I see faint outlines.

And what I am saying is that under those exact same conditions, and when it was brand new (first thing I did was play Halo2), and if I check it just like you do, nothing, no IR, no hint of anything.

And what I am saying is that under those exact same conditions, and when it was brand new (first thing I did was play Halo2), and if I check it just like you do, nothing, no IR, no hint of anything.


Well, that's great news. Halo 2's HUD, however, isn't bright white like GOW or the Bose logo.
Nevertheless, it seems we both don't have much to fear, and we're both Xbox gamers...so what could be better?

Use solid color images to look for IR. Do not just check no signal and white. If you play a game with a blue hud, check a blue test image. If you play a game with a yellow or white hud, check a yellow test image.

http://home.comcast.net/~lodrin/Colors.zip

Unzip to a flash drive and play them on your TV via an Xbox360 or USB picture slot

The folder just has 26 or so solid color images I made with MSPaint and fill. Some colors I gave silly names too, deal with it.

Play each image with low surrounding light at various viewing distances. Look for shadows, or areas of the picture that is dimmer then the rest. Dim areas means uneven phosphor wear.

If you see IR, you should vary your viewing.

Hi

I bought my plasma back in March '06 (Prima PH42W6S42... I think its a re-branded Samsung, as I can see the Samsung brand name through the ventilation slits in the rear of the set). I never did any sort of "break-in"... I didn't know I needed too (thanks Mr Salesman!). The only thing I did was to reduce the brightness a bit. This is our family's main set. Mostly full screen viewing: HD, DVD (some 1.85:1), XBOX 360 (about 120 hrs of Oblivion). Most channels have a logo in the bottom right corner of the screen, which tends to "ghost" into the next channel or commercial. This is fine and I usually can't detect a clear logo "ghost" image for more then a few minutes or so. But what I have come to notice on my panel is a "discoloration" on the bottom right corner ...maybe a triangle about 12" X 8" X 8" right from the bottom right corner. In a light blue (like sky color) scene, I see a very obvious red pixelation throughout the triangle...its VERY obvious. The discoloration has no distinct shape, other then it encompasses the whole corner. It is visible most of the time, and I tend to focus in on it and it drives me nuts!

I have used JScrenFix a few times (over night, 7-8 hours at a time). Although it seems to help a bit in the short term, the "triangle of crap" comes back within a day, or a lengthy TV viewing session.

Is this just an accumulation of logo "burn-ins" that have mashed up into this triangle type shape? or is my panel defective in some way? I bought the extended warranty . It says that it doesn't cover burn in, (for obvious reasons) but is it possibly a defect in my panel? How do I prove this?

Thanks for any input!
Matt

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I know LCD's are not likely candidates for permanent image issues, but here's a question.

Since Samsung (I'm referring to the LN-S4051D) repeats in the manual a couple of times about not viewing a static image or 4:3 mode for more than 2 hours to avoid an image burn-in, why do they limit you to 4:3 or 16:9 modes for component and HDMI connections, where most movies now will have bars at the top and bottom?

I realize most people will say "LCD's don't have burn-in issues" and I have never seen an image retention or burn on my computer monitor, even after leaving my screen static for hours at a time. But if the potential is there, why does Samsung say basically "don't do this, even though we don't allow you to NOT do it"?

Has anyone here had a permanent image retention on an LCD due to letterbox bars?

I purchased a new Pio PDP4270HD about 3 weeks ago, and have been a lurker on this thread for most of that time.

I have been using "normal" viewing for my break in period. Typically about 3 hours of SD or HD programming during weekdays and 5-10 hours of SD, HD or xbox on the weekends. I would guess that I am still under the 100 hour mark on the display.

This morning I noticed that there is very faint IR when I view the screen without any signal (i have to be staring at the screen 3-5 inches away). While this IR or any other IR has virtually been unnoticiable from my normal viewing distance (14 feet) I am concerned that this is going to become more of a problem over time.

My current settings are on user mode/save2 with the brightness and sharpeness both turned down to between -5 and -10.

I just got a dvd burner so I burned the break in dvd so I will use that. Can anyone offer additional thoughts or suggestions? Or am I being a little OCD. My previous thought was that if I never got IR or Burn in on my CRT that basically my viewing habits wouldn't translate to IR on the PDP.

Thanks to everyone in advance...this thread and forum has been great so far.

If you use balanced videos/images (like the break in CD), you can torch mode your settings to accelerate the break in process.

I've passed the 100 hours on my Panny 60u....can I safely watch a 2:35 movie without zooming in? I have been zooming in, but some movies just look better with the black bars. I don't want to have a risk of IR or Burn, though.

I purchased a new Pio PDP4270HD about 3 weeks ago, and have been a lurker on this thread for most of that time.

I have been using "normal" viewing for my break in period. Typically about 3 hours of SD or HD programming during weekdays and 5-10 hours of SD, HD or xbox on the weekends. I would guess that I am still under the 100 hour mark on the display.

This morning I noticed that there is very faint IR when I view the screen without any signal (i have to be staring at the screen 3-5 inches away). While this IR or any other IR has virtually been unnoticiable from my normal viewing distance (14 feet) I am concerned that this is going to become more of a problem over time.

My current settings are on user mode/save2 with the brightness and sharpeness both turned down to between -5 and -10.

I just got a dvd burner so I burned the break in dvd so I will use that. Can anyone offer additional thoughts or suggestions? Or am I being a little OCD. My previous thought was that if I never got IR or Burn in on my CRT that basically my viewing habits wouldn't translate to IR on the PDP.

Thanks to everyone in advance...this thread and forum has been great so far.



Just run the break-in dvd for a few hours and I am sure all signs of the IR will be gone. Actually, I bet if you ran it for a half hour, there would be no sign of it. I had the same issue, but it seems like the more hours I have on the set, the less IR I get.

And as far as settings go, I personally would keep them turned down, like you have them.

Well, keep in mind 2 things. 1) My set is BRAND new. Just over 100 hours. I presume IR is a little more likely now than in 1000 hours or so.

2) What I am calling IR is basically this: I have to change the tv to a blank input screen (black) and then turn off all the lights and stare at the TV about a foot or less from where the "IR" is. Only then do I see faint outlines.


I am in the same position here. Got the 50PX6U, did the break-in, etc. etc. I'm at about 300 hours, and a 1 minute commercial will leave IR. Unfortunately I am a gamer, which yes it is dumb that I bought a plasma, however my friend has the 42" EDTV Panny, and never experienced the problem (to his knowledge, anyway). However, his TV is well past 2,000 hours now, and I could not even find any IR after we played Saints Row for 3 hours. So, I'm hoping my TV will get to that point.

I am in the same position here. Got the 50PX6U, did the break-in, etc. etc. I'm at about 300 hours, and a 1 minute commercial will leave IR. Unfortunately I am a gamer, which yes it is dumb that I bought a plasma, however my friend has the 42" EDTV Panny, and never experienced the problem (to his knowledge, anyway). However, his TV is well past 2,000 hours now, and I could not even find any IR after we played Saints Row for 3 hours. So, I'm hoping my TV will get to that point.


Yeah, I'm not too worried about it anymore. I just won't play a game longer than an hour without adjusting the "zoom" on the picture and reducing the picture settings to "0" again.

Just a note from a guy who's at the 1,300+ hour mark: I play whatever, watch whatever, and no problems. Loving the panny 42.

Well, just in case anyone cares, it's been 12 days since I stopped playing Gears of War.

I have had the tv running the dvd break in and normal tv for about 8 hours a day. AND, ALAS, some Rainbow 6 Vegas. Maybe I need an intervention..

I have to really strain to see any IR of the Lancer now.

However, Rainbow 6 seems to have done nothing at all! And I have played that almost as much as I played GoW. I hope more games start using lighter colors and such for their huds.

Games should allow some color/brightness HUD configuration. An ounce of programming would go the distance as far as plasma. All they'd have to do would be to add an option to change the color of the gears of war hud so that it could be grey instead of white and that would be HUGE.

As far as my IR, for those interested, I've run the break in DVD linked on this forum for about 24 hours now, along with about 16 hours of random programming.

I'd say visibility of my IR has reduced by about 50%.

Games should allow some color/brightness HUD configuration. An ounce of programming would go the distance as far as plasma. All they'd have to do would be to add an option to change the color of the gears of war hud so that it could be grey instead of white and that would be HUGE.

As far as my IR, for those interested, I've run the break in DVD linked on this forum for about 24 hours now, along with about 16 hours of random programming.

I'd say visibility of my IR has reduced by about 50%.

I fear getting that done will be as effective as getting channels to remove their logos.

I have a side-question:
I have made it through Break-in on my Panny 50px60u...is it safe to watch 2:35 movies w/o the zoom? I am worried about those black bars on there, but the movies don't look as good zoomed in. Especially the HD DVD of King Kong.

What do you all thing?

I fear getting that done will be as effective as getting channels to remove their logos.

I have a side-question:
I have made it through Break-in on my Panny 50px60u...is it safe to watch 2:35 movies w/o the zoom? I am worried about those black bars on there, but the movies don't look as good zoomed in. Especially the HD DVD of King Kong.

What do you all thing?
My opinion, I don't think that black static objects are as bad offenders as white static objects. I don't see any IR after a 2.35:1 2-hour movie with black bars, but I see IR after about 2 minutes of a white on screen display from my A/V receiver.

Uneven phosphor wear is all about the difference in utilization. I think that the average viewing is closer to black than it is to white.

I fear getting that done will be as effective as getting channels to remove their logos.

I have a side-question:
I have made it through Break-in on my Panny 50px60u...is it safe to watch 2:35 movies w/o the zoom? I am worried about those black bars on there, but the movies don't look as good zoomed in. Especially the HD DVD of King Kong.

What do you all thing?Watch your movie with the bars and enjoy it. Sounds like your set is handling images which could create IR very well. If you are nervous, watch your 2+ hr movie and check it afterwards - I bet you don't have any problems :D .

Games should allow some color/brightness HUD configuration. An ounce of programming would go the distance as far as plasma. All they'd have to do would be to add an option to change the color of the gears of war hud so that it could be grey instead of white and that would be HUGE.

As far as my IR, for those interested, I've run the break in DVD linked on this forum for about 24 hours now, along with about 16 hours of random programming.

I'd say visibility of my IR has reduced by about 50%.Just to make sure you have it setup this way if you are having issues with the HUD - you know it can be set to hide when not in use? I think that may even be the default setting.

Just to make sure you have it setup this way if you are having issues with the HUD - you know it can be set to hide when not in use? I think that may even be the default setting.

Yeah, that is the default setting, but unfortunately in a game where you shoot your gun alot, and anytime you shoot your gun, the HUD is on the screen... the HUD will be on the screena lot.

Just to make sure you have it setup this way if you are having issues with the HUD - you know it can be set to hide when not in use? I think that may even be the default setting.

Are you referring to GOW? I didn't know there was that option? If there is, it certainly isn't the default b/c mine is permanent. I just need to use the shotgun more than the lancer and zoom my tv in and out every match. And I thought GOW was hard!

Are you referring to GOW? I didn't know there was that option? If there is, it certainly isn't the default b/c mine is permanent. I just need to use the shotgun more than the lancer and zoom my tv in and out every match. And I thought GOW was hard!Yeah, GOW. Go to options, then game I think. Lodrin is right though, the HUD stays up most of the time. It may help a little in between action?

Sorry for the redundent question but I like I'm reading conflicting posts.
I just bought a Panny 42" plasma from Costco.
The first thing I did was change all color setting to 0 and turn vivid to standard.
I also down loaded the breakin dvd but haven't used it yet. My tv viewing is 40% HD,
50% dvd, and 10% sd, no gaming and only approx. 3 hours a day total viewing. Do I really need to zoom when watching DVDs or are the black bars not a problem for just 2-2.5 hours.

Also are the following settings be accurate and can they be set immediateing or after some 100 hour of viewing?
Thanks for any help.

http://www.*******************.com/plasmatvreviews/panasonic-th42px60u-review.html
suggests these settings:
Panasonic TH-42PX60U Optimal Picture Settings (ISF Calibration)
Picture Mode Standard
Picture +22
Brightness +8
Color -1
Tint -4
Sharpness -14
Color Temperature Warm
Enhanced Black Level Off

hey everyone :)

I was originally in the market for a LCD and in fact did buy one and ended up getting a defective unit , so I returned it and was looking to get another LCD but somehow walked out of the store with a 42" Samsung hp-s4253 for $1,300 with warranty , don't ask , long story .

So iv bin doing a lot of reading on the burn in problem with plasma TV's and have a few questions .


What is considered a long period of time to leave a static image on screen ?

What is considered abuse as far viewing habits go ?

Most TV channels have a logo in one corner or another , iv noticed most are semi transparent , are these logos something to worry about ?

I have an xbox360 , how long is to long to play the same game? is 4 to 6 hours to long ? and can a image burn in happen within 30 to 60 mins ?

Samsung claims the TV doesn't require break in time , is this true ? If I do need to break it in is setting everything to the middle of the adjustment bar sufficient ?

Iv bin reading about the 4:3 aspect sidebars burning in on some tv's , I dont plan on watching tv in this picture form but im concerned about the horizontal bars from the 16:9 widescreen , can these be burned into the screen ?

The thing is I was never in the market for a plasma TV because of burn in and now that I have one I absolutely love the picture but i'm scared to death to use in a way I will enjoy it and I'm really trying to set my mind at ease.

I'm going to be following the "15% rule" till 500 hours or so on my plasma after my IR problems. That means for every 24 hours of panel viewing, no more then 4 hours are gaming. When I'm not gaming, I'm going to be running the stickied break in DVD at high color/contrast settings (which basically accelerates phosphor aging).

Is there a way on the Panasonic TH-42PX6U to tell how many hours you have on the TV?
Thanks

I'm going to be following the "15% rule" till 500 hours or so on my plasma after my IR problems. That means for every 24 hours of panel viewing, no more then 4 hours are gaming. When I'm not gaming, I'm going to be running the stickied break in DVD at high color/contrast settings (which basically accelerates phosphor aging).

Meh. I did the 100 hours and now I feel safe.

For example, I put my settings back to "0" when I play, but that's about it. If I play for longer than an hour on a game with a HUD, I zoom in for the next hour.

For example, I played GOW last night for 2.5 hours. I followed the above, played the tv when I was done for 10 minutes, and saw no IR.
Don't worry about 500 hours!

Meh. I did the 100 hours and now I feel safe.

Don't worry about 500 hours!

I received my nastiest burn in at 200 hours in, running very low settings in power save mode.

I received my nastiest burn in at 200 hours in, running very low settings in power save mode.


Sorry to hear that. What was the scenario? Was it a Panny? Was there a static image on screen for a long time? I need more detail in order for me to be concerned

As a rank newbie that was not aware of this forum, I got burn in on my Pioneer PDP-4272HD. I have had the set since 12/30/06. I read the instruction manual and tried to keep my 4:3 viewing to a minimum. However, even with very little 4:3 viewing, I have the "dirty screen" problem where the outside mask area is brighter than the center.

Needless to say, I am sick about my screen. I tried to download and run the burn-in disc, but my Sony DVD player does not recognize the disc.

I am now only viewing stretched 4:3 or HD.

Is there anything else I can do?

I am really disappointed.

Sorry to hear that. What was the scenario? Was it a Panny? Was there a static image on screen for a long time? I need more detail in order for me to be concerned

Go back a few pages in this thread.

Is there anything else I can do?

I am really disappointed.

Try another DVD player, like those entry level Target/Walmart ones that sell for ~$30.

As a rank newbie that was not aware of this forum, I got burn in on my Pioneer PDP-4272HD. I have had the set since 12/30/06. I read the instruction manual and tried to keep my 4:3 viewing to a minimum. However, even with very little 4:3 viewing, I have the "dirty screen" problem where the outside mask area is brighter than the center.

Needless to say, I am sick about my screen. I tried to download and run the burn-in disc, but my Sony DVD player does not recognize the disc.

I am now only viewing stretched 4:3 or HD.

Is there anything else I can do?

I am really disappointed.
Don't worry. I bet your problem is temporary. Over time it will go away as long as you stay away from 4:3 viewing with side bars.

To fix the problem quicker, set your 4:3 side bars to a brighter color like grey or white. After several hours of watching 4:3 with bright side bars, the brighter side bars will decrease in brightness and be even with the middle of the screen. The key to this is to make sure that the side bars are brighter than the middle. The quickest way to do this is to have white side bars and a black 4:3 center portion. I bet only a couple hours of that will even the wear of your pixels.

Dont have time to read this whole thread to see if this has been asked before so here it goes. Do you guys use this DVD for the entire break in before you even watch TV? Or do you use it in the off time? Can you run it nonstop to get it out of the way faster?

Dont have time to read this whole thread to see if this has been asked before so here it goes. Do you guys use this DVD for the entire break in before you even watch TV? Or do you use it in the off time? Can you run it nonstop to get it out of the way faster?Ha! You could skim through it at least and easily find that it has been asked and answered over and over. At least I have some time to answer for you.

So here it goes again....
You can watch tv anytime during the break-in. Running it non-stop helps you get your hours in quicker.

Next time, take some of your own time to do a little searching :rolleyes:

Ha! You could skim through it at least and easily find that it has been asked and answered over and over. At least I have some time to answer for you.

So here it goes again....
You can watch tv anytime during the break-in. Running it non-stop helps you get your hours in quicker.
Thanks I knew I would get some sort of "lazy ass" remark. But wasnt that so much easier :D

Thanks I knew I would get some sort of "lazy ass" remark. But wasnt that so much easier :DAnd yet you still posted!!! Unbelievable! Yes, we should make everything easy on you. Forget about the time of other contributors trying to help those that help themselves. You see, there are many many people who are subscribed to this thread, so whenever someone posts needing help, we can easily jump on and answer. You should already know this - you're no longer brand new here.

Well, your question has been asked so many many times. I for one am tired of answering someone who gets too lazy to look and just expects someone to answer them.....ESPECIALLY someone who KNEW IT WOULD CAUSE CONFLICT. Way to go!

Carry on everyone else....sorry to others about the rant

P.S. dhark...you really need to watch the video linked in my sig!

And yet you still posted!!! Unbelievable! Yes, we should make everything easy on you. Forget about the time of other contributors trying to help those that help themselves. You see, there are many many people who are subscribed to this thread, so whenever someone posts needing help, we can easily jump on and answer. You should already know this - you're no longer brand new here.

Well, your question has been asked so many many times. I for one am tired of answering someone who gets too lazy to look and just expects someone to answer them.....ESPECIALLY someone who KNEW IT WOULD CAUSE CONFLICT. Way to go!

Carry on everyone else....sorry to others about the rant
Are you serious dude :confused: I have spent so many hours on here reasearching plasmas and what not my head is about to explode. I have a wife and 2 kids that are a little more important than sifting thru 90 F-ing pages of text to get an answer when someone (YOU in this case) can just answer in a minute? If you dont want to answer a redundant question THEN DONT!!! I on the other hand could care less if a question has been asked a million times. If I know the answer I will help whoever asked it out. Its really that simple. I dont understand why some of you guys get so upset at repeated questions/threads.

P.S. dhark...you really need to watch the video linked in my sig!
Seen it a few years ago. Sorry I didnt know you were the AVS post cop

Are you serious dude :confused: I have spent so many hours on here reasearching plasmas and what not my head is about to explode. I have a wife and 2 kids that are a little more important than sifting thru 90 F-ing pages of text to get an answer when someone (YOU in this case) can just answer in a minute? If you dont want to answer a redundant question THEN DONT!!! I on the other hand could care less if a question has been asked a million times. If I know the answer I will help whoever asked it out. Its really that simple. I dont understand why some of you guys get so upset at repeated questions/threads.So you've done so much research that everything should be handed to you now. Many, many times I run searches to find answers for people. Why shouldn't you run a search or scan through a thread? We all have lives, and I too have a family, but if I need something I try and first find the solution myself instead of wasting others time, especially when I know the answer is already here. 45 pages btw - WHEW! - but of course your minute is more valuable than anyone else's. Ever hear of help those that help themselves? Obviously you are not, so I won't anymore. You know why a question gets asked a million times - because people like you expect that others here should just enjoy repeating themselves over and over just because you are too "busy" or too lazy. How about you respect others time as much as you do yours. It's really that simple.

Seen it a few years ago. Sorry I didnt know you were the AVS post copWell if you saw it, then you really have no excuse. Somebody has to speak up and tell you to search instead of filling the thread with redundancy.

Back on topic here...the thread has been sidetracked enough.

Back on topic here...the thread has been sidetracked enough.
3 posts in 2 minutes :eek: At least my redundant question only took up 1 post :rolleyes:
Anyways back to the break in DVD, someone (EricFl) was gracious enough to burn a copy of it for me if I send him a DVD with a SASE. But seeing as I have no DVDs to to send him cause I dont have a DVD burner, I would have to go buy some and all I saw was 10 pack for like $15. So if someone here has a Paypal account and can burn a copy and send me it I would more than happy to send you $5-$7 for your time and DVD. If not I guess I will have to go buy a 10 for just 1 DVD. If anyone can help me out I would appreciate it. Not only would it be cheaper for me it would be faster than me mailing a DVD out and waiting for it to return. EricFl if no one can help me out I will send you out a DVD tomorrow. Check your PMs

My brother left a static Oppo DVD screen up on my Panasonic 50" Plasma (six months old) for a few hours today and now I can clearly see the outline of the of the words "Oppo" and "DVD" when the screen goes to very lights colors/images - Is this burn in or image retention? I've been running full screen video for about 4 hrs now and it's still there. Should I run the break in burn in dvd again tonight? Do you think that will get rid of it? I tried to be as careful as I could but sometimes you cant control these things. Thanks.

You should to run the break in DVD for about 5-6x as long as that menu was up there, and it should disappear.

This is a question for all of you...I don't know too much about Plasmas, but I'm in the process of breaking one in...

I've run the break-in DVD for about 2 hrs. 10 min. now, I've also watched about another 1 or 2 worth of full TV screen video (minimal, if any black bars on side or top/bottom)...

Now I was watching Back to the Future on DVD (widescreen) and I noticed the damndest thing, in Just or Full mode, at the bottom of the screen there is about 3 rows of all black pixels...there are no other letterbox black bars on the top/bottom of the screen...

When I switch the TV to 4:3 I get the gray bars on the side, and I still get about 3 rows of black pixels in between the gray bars...

Now if I switch the TV to Zoom and take the image size down to 1 (rather than 15), I can pretty much get 99.57% of the video correctly on the screen (minus about .43% of the top of the video) and the black bars are completely gone...is this an issue with the DVD (it's 1.85:1 anamorphic)?

Now that is question 1, the 2nd one is, would the top/bottom black bars on some movies do just the same amount of IR or burn-in as the side bars would do if they were black? If so, can those black bars be changed in anyway? I am running a 50" Panasonic Plasma...

Thanks for any help...

I know boarders are bad, but.......... if one is watching a SD channel, is it better to have a black boarder or a light boarder such as grey.

I have a Samsung s5053 and an explorer 8300HD. As far as I know I can not change the boarder via the Samsung, but I can do it through the cable box.

This is a question for all of you...I don't know too much about Plasmas, but I'm in the process of breaking one in...

I've run the break-in DVD for about 2 hrs. 10 min. now, I've also watched about another 1 or 2 worth of full TV screen video (minimal, if any black bars on side or top/bottom)...

Now I was watching Back to the Future on DVD (widescreen) and I noticed the damndest thing, in Just or Full mode, at the bottom of the screen there is about 3 rows of all black pixels...there are no other letterbox black bars on the top/bottom of the screen...

When I switch the TV to 4:3 I get the gray bars on the side, and I still get about 3 rows of black pixels in between the gray bars...

Now if I switch the TV to Zoom and take the image size down to 1 (rather than 15), I can pretty much get 99.57% of the video correctly on the screen (minus about .43% of the top of the video) and the black bars are completely gone...is this an issue with the DVD (it's 1.85:1 anamorphic)?

Now that is question 1, the 2nd one is, would the top/bottom black bars on some movie do just the same amount of IR or burn-in as the side bars would do if they were black? If so, can those black bars be changed in anyway? I am running a 50" Panasonic Plasma...

Thanks for any help...

1.85:1 Anamorphic is slightly wider than the native aspect ratio of the TV which is 1.78:1. So without any overscan, there should black bars about 15 pixels high on the bottom as well as the top of the picture. There is no way to change the color of these bars as they are coded onto the DVD that way.

You didn't mention if you had the consumer version (60u or 600u) or the commercial version (9uk) of the panasonic. In the commercial version you can fine tune picture position and size which will allow you zoom just to the point where the black bars are gone.

I wouldn't worry about these black bars since unless you are watching 1.85:1 movies all the time.

Hi all,

Just thought I'd chime in on the post-1000 hour IR. I broke in my Panny 50PX6U using the break-in dvd over 1000 hours. I've been playing ninja gaiden, which has a static life bar on my xbox 360. I'd say, depending on the length of my playing, the amount of time to remove image retention is b/w 1:1 and 1:2 static time vs removal time. And I certainly only notice my IR on an all-white screen. I watched the super bowl after playing 3-4 hrs of ninja gaiden and couldn't see the life bar at all.

1.85:1 Anamorphic is slightly wider than the native aspect ratio of the TV which is 1.78:1. So without any overscan, there should black bars about 15 pixels high on the bottom as well as the top of the picture. There is no way to change the color of these bars as they are coded onto the DVD that way.

You didn't mention if you had the consumer version (60u or 600u) or the commercial version (9uk) of the panasonic. In the commercial version you can fine tune picture position and size which will allow you zoom just to the point where the black bars are gone.

I wouldn't worry about these black bars since unless you are watching 1.85:1 movies all the time.

I have OCD so I'm doing my best to prevent any form of IR or burn-in...I have the consumer version (60u)...

I have been zooming in on all the movies I watch that still have the black bars on top/bottom...I just zoom in large enough until the bars get close to the edges of the screen and then I move the image up or down until all the pixels on screen are being lit my active motion...

I've decided to just watch the TV how I want it, but whenever the TV isn't being used, I run the break in DVD on this forum. That'll give me about a 1:4, 1:5 ratio that Panasonic recommends.

I'm going to continue doing this till the 1000 hour mark.

I have OCD so I'm doing my best to prevent any form of IR or burn-in...I have the consumer version (60u)...

I have been zooming in on all the movies I watch that still have the black bars on top/bottom...I just zoom in large enough until the bars get close to the edges of the screen and then I move the image up or down until all the pixels on screen are being lit my active motion...


??????

I have the 50" 60u and I don't see ANY black bars during 1:85 movies. In fact, I used them for part of break-in.

Moreover, how do you "move the image up or down"???????? Is there an option with this panny?

Some movies, like War of the Worlds and Jackass 2 had no black bars at all on them...pretty much all the other movies I have do have the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen...

You can only move the image up and down when in the Zoom aspect...

Go into Zoom aspect and then hit Menu -> Press up twice and choose Zoom. You will then see an onscreen prompt stating the size of the zoomed image and it's location. You can then increase/decrease the size and fiddle with it a bit...

Due to my scare about burn-in, it takes me about 5 or 6 min. of altering the image before I can sit down and enjoy the movie without any black bars...

And 1000 hours is a bit much for break-in...I was always told 100 hours is good...

Some movies, like War of the Worlds and Jackass 2 had no black bars at all on them...pretty much all the other movies I have do have the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen...

You can only move the image up and down when in the Zoom aspect...

Go into Zoom aspect and then hit Menu -> Press up twice and choose Zoom. You will then see an onscreen prompt stating the size of the zoomed image and it's location. You can then increase/decrease the size and fiddle with it a bit...

Due to my scare about burn-in, it takes me about 5 or 6 min. of altering the image before I can sit down and enjoy the movie without any black bars...

And 1000 hours is a bit much for break-in...I was always told 100 hours is good...

Wow. Thanks for the "zoom" info. You might want to post this in the Panny thread b/c I haven't seen anyone talk about this...I bet it is rare knowledge.

It's funny becase War of the Worlds is also one I watched w/o bars. Every movie I have, however, that is 1:85 does not have bars. I wonder if the Panny sets' overscan differ per television? Try "Spider-Man" (the 1st one).

I also did 100 hours and play Xbox for about 2.5 hours every other night (on average). No problems with IR...there is some after Gears, but with less than an hour of viewing, it's completely gone. I do play my 360 with settings at "0", though, to reduce the risk. Since I play at night, that does't bother me in the slightest.

Hello,

Just purchased Panny 50-600U in time for Super Bowl. HD pic looks Very Good. Spent a lot of time deciding between 42 and 50 as we are only 5 - 8 ft away... Once we mounted the TV on the wall it appeared to blend in and is perfect size.

Currently using Comcast HD-DVR via HDMI. I have had the tv for 5 days and have noticed burn-in, ir, ghost image on screen. I had the Brightness and Contrast down low but not using Break-In DVD etc... I am concerned over the Fox Logo on the bottom right of the screen. I have downloaded the BreakIn DVD and plan to start the process this evening.

I contacted Panny Support and inquired about using DVD etc and they stated that it shouldnt be used. In addition, they mentioned that burn in is not covered under warranty etc. Is the IR correctable via DVD or is it too late...? Any additional reccomendations while using DVD ... i.e. run it for x hours at a time with specific settings would be greatly appreciated.

I have spent a good amount of time recently reviewing the threads and got some great information....

Thank You in advance for your time.

I'd recall Panny Support and ask them why you can't play that DVD (or any DVD). They probably said no because of your DVD's menu accidentally being left on.

I run the break in DVD whenever I'm not watching the TV, and I'm at home. I check in on it every 30 minutes or so. I alternate my settings for it.

I have a slight 4:3 mask burn on my Pioneer PDP-4271HD and I have been running the burn-in DVD and I have also run Jscreenfix in an attempt to even out the phosphors.

Now for my dumb questions:

I have looked in my manual and everywhere I can think of for a way to make the mask area bright white in an effort to speed up the process. MY choices in my "picture" options is "automatic" or "fixed", neither of which offers a white option. Am I missing something?

Also, since I use my laptop connected through the PC terminal of the Pioneer to run Jscreenfix, it it possible to use a program like MSPaint to create white masks with a black center to speed up the process?

Likely, I am being an idiot here, but I will try anything to fix my new Plasma.

Just watch regular material which fills the screen for a while and it should go away. How long? Until it goes away. Trust me, it will. You don't have burn-in, just some image retention.

General question concerning the 50" version of the Panasonic Plasma...in the center of my screen, my eyes are picking up a faint black line (horizontally) stretching the length of the TV...

I can only see it on white or a light gray screen...is that where the back light comes from in the plasma TV? Should I be concerned about this line? Again, it's faint but my eyes are picking it up..I've never had a solid black line for any length of time in that area of the screen...maybe my eyes are just picking it up today...

Does anyone else have this type of line?

Just watch regular material which fills the screen for a while and it should go away. How long? Until it goes away. Trust me, it will. You don't have burn-in, just some image retention.

Kr8z1

Thanks for the response. I appreciate you're helping a newbie.

I am sure I am over-reacting, but I really feel dumb that I let the IR occur.

thanks again

You probably are over reacting a little as you are aware. Sometimes plasmas get some IR, but can be easily remedied. Give it some time watching full screen material and report back. Don't feel dumb about getting IR and enjoy your new set. It'll be fine soon.

PS. I have a $6K 1540 and I'm not scared to get IR - because I know it won't be permanent. Instead I enjoy my set by using it how I want, even if I risk IR. :D

General question concerning the 50" version of the Panasonic Plasma...in the center of my screen, my eyes are picking up a faint black line (horizontally) stretching the length of the TV...

I can only see it on white or a light gray screen...is that where the back light comes from in the plasma TV? Should I be concerned about this line? Again, it's faint but my eyes are picking it up..I've never had a solid black line for any length of time in that area of the screen...maybe my eyes are just picking it up today...

Does anyone else have this type of line?
There is no back light on a plasma.

Some people have reported lines of dead pixels streching the entire width of the panny panels. It is not burn in, but (if memory serves) a bad solder joint on one of the boards.

Get really close to your panel when the line is visible & do your best to follow it all the way across... is it the same row of pixels? If so, call your panny service center & have them come out and fix it.

Kr8z1
I am sure I am over-reacting, but I really feel dumb that I let the IR occur.

Don't feel dumb about IR. Just clean it up by watching something full screen for a while. Once it is gone, it is gone. It's only when you continue to watch in the same way and continue to deepen the IR that it becomes medium term IR or long term IR (BI).

Same thing for JBQ. Just watch something other than fox until the IR completely disappers. Then go back to normal viewing.

By the way, if you just finished watching a channel & notice the logo immediatly afterwards, that is not IR to be concerned with. If you change to another channel that has content in that area for 10-15 seconds and still have the logo visible, then you've got some IR you need to clean up.

Guys:

I just bought the Panny 6U and would like to do the 'break-in'. Made the SVCD for it. Now what settings should the TV be set at for the purpose? I plan to watch TV during the day and do the 'break-in' hours at night. Thats ok, right?

Hello,

I have a Pioneer 4360 and it seems the I have burn in of a broadcast logo. The logo simply says "HIDEF" I bought it as a demo and since I don't have an HDTV feed. I can't see how I could've burned that image on the screen. Anyway, I have to deal with Best Buy about selling plasmas with burn in.

Anyway, I tried the Break-In DVD overnight and there doesn't seem to be any change. Can some suggest what else I can try? Should I let it run a little bit longer?

Thanks,

Dante1

Hello,

I have a Pioneer 4360 and it seems the I have burn in of a broadcast logo. The logo simply says "HIDEF" I bought it as a demo and since I don't have an HDTV feed. I can't see how I could've burned that image on the screen. Anyway, I have to deal with Best Buy about selling plasmas with burn in.

Anyway, I tried the Break-In DVD overnight and there doesn't seem to be any change. Can some suggest what else I can try? Should I let it run a little bit longer?

Thanks,

Dante1They probably had a video loop which ran content that had that image over and over. That's a risk you take when buying a demo. This doesn't mean however than you can't repair it.

Let it run for as long as you can stand it and check periodically to see if it's still there. Also watching regular tv at full screen or wide so that it fills the whole screen is another option. This way you can still watch tv. Report back after a day or two and give us an update.

I would suggest that after a week or two (or run it until your window for return is up) and if the image hasn't gone away, I'd bring it bring back to BB. I'd even check to see if you can return it under warranty and see if they'll replace it. Only thing here is warranties typically don't cover IR or BI. Regardless, I'd still try and get a deal from them for selling you a tv with an image stuck on it.

Thanks Kr8z1,

Thing is that I told BB about the situation and they sent a tech to see what the damage is. I thought the tech would preform a white wash but it seem that a white wash takes about a week to perform.

Anyway, BB told me that if they can't fix the problem, they would send it to Pioneer and have them fix it or replace it. I also called Pioneer yesterday and they told me that it costs $300.00 to remove burn in. If it cost $300.00 I guess BB would pay for the repairs. Anyway, I have to wait till Tuesday to see the manager and see what they are willing to do. Until then, I will continue use the Break-In DVD and see if it improves. So far it has been running for almost 24hrs. There is a hockey game tonight and after the game, I will let the Break-In run all night again.

I will keep you posted on the results.

Thanks again,

Dante1

There is no back light on a plasma.

Some people have reported lines of dead pixels streching the entire width of the panny panels. It is not burn in, but (if memory serves) a bad solder joint on one of the boards.

Get really close to your panel when the line is visible & do your best to follow it all the way across... is it the same row of pixels? If so, call your panny service center & have them come out and fix it.

It's not a row of dead pixels (thank God), rather it's almost like a shadow...coming from behind the pixels...

All the color is there, it just seems a bit (a tad) darker in the center...

I'm not too concerned though...

It's not a row of dead pixels (thank God), rather it's almost like a shadow...coming from behind the pixels...

All the color is there, it just seems a bit (a tad) darker in the center...

I'm not too concerned though...
If it is still in the warranty period, get it repaired, no sense settling for a set with a manufacturing defect. If it is out of the warranty period, it certinally sounds like something you can live with if you don't want to spend the $$ to repair it.

Here's a question . . . why does some IR/burn-in show up only on black and others only on white?

I have some IR (I hope it's IR) from the Madden logo, and it only shows up on white. I've read posts in this very thread that say their Madden logo only shows up on black. Same logo, same technology (plasma), shows up on different shades.

Any thoughts?

Here's a question . . . why does some IR/burn-in show up only on black and others only on white?

I have some IR (I hope it's IR) from the Madden logo, and it only shows up on white. I've read posts in this very thread that say their Madden logo only shows up on black. Same logo, same technology (plasma), shows up on different shades.

Any thoughts?
Hmmm... I would think that it would tend to show up on white, but not everyone has the ability to output white to their panel. They can get black pretty easy, just switch to an unused input. So my guess is that when they say "only on black" they actually mean that it does not show when content is being displayed, not that it won't show up on an all white screen.

Fair enough, but it still makes me wonder how mine won't show up on black at all. It will show up on gray, however...it could always depend on the degree of IR/Burn-in, too... mine is fairly faint and, happily, seems to be diminishing as the days go by....

...although I'm in Madden withdrawal after 4 days of waiting for it to go away....

...although I'm in Madden withdrawal after 4 days of waiting for it to go away....
A little tip, if you know that you will have vaired content with no fixed logos or black bars (such as break in dvd - if you have it on a loop so that your dvd menu doesn't come up or discovery HD zoomed so the logo is off the screen) you can actually remove IR faster by turning your settings up (or throwing it in dynamic mode). Just remember to turn it back down when finished, or IR will also re-occur faster.

No kidding?

Actually, I was thinking that when I adjusted my setting downs in the first place. I figured if brightness caused the IR, it could also "fix" it by "catching up" the other phosphors. It does make sense, even though it goes against your gut instincts.

I first noticed the IR Friday night, its still there, although a bit fainter...and again, only visible on extremely light screens...I just wish I knew how long it would take to go away, or that Samsung had a counter to tell you how many hours you've run the TV for. Who knows if I'm still in my break-in period or way beyond it..

It takes about ~6x as long as you played Madden to reduce the IR to slightly perceivable on a test pattern.

This value can go up or down depending on what settings you use, and your panel's age. Younger panels, high intensity huds, and/or using lower settings on full motion video... will increase the time. Older panels, low intensity huds, and/or using higher settings on full motion video... will lower the time.

If you played Madden for about 10 hours total, expect to have to watch full motion video (or break in DVD) for about~ 60 hours, give or take about 30 hours depending on the variables mentioned above.

Well, in my opinipon its only slightly perceiveable now.

The rest of your comment worries me because I played it for way more than 10 hours. If I had already watched the TV for 100 hours, id put Madden at maybe 40 hours of that time. So you're saying that it make take 240 hours to get back to square one? Yikes...

Please! Could really use your help!

Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum as well as a new plasma owning college student. This January I bought a 42 in Panasonic Plasma (th42px60u). I'm not really sure exactly how many hours the set has been on but I would say it is on for 6-8+ hrs a day (so well over the 100hr period). I occasionally play XBox 360 (6-8 hrs a week), watch dvds, and normal tv.

I didn't really notice it at first but recently, I seem to get a after image almost anytime there is a static image on the screen.

for example:
1. watching tv and the logo in the corner shows up even if logo is only on there for a few minutes, Ex: in between commercials segments (change inputs the after image shows up then fades after a few minutes)

2. watching 1 widescreen dvd with black bars on the top and bottom (again shows up on screen and fades after several minutes of regular tv viewing)

3. playing Splinter Cell: Double Agent for 10 minutes with pausing every couple minutes to keep the HUD from staying on screen (takes several minutes of regular tv viewing to fade)

I have read through many other posts talking about burn-in and image retention. From reading other posts it seems that this after image should only show up if there is static images on the screen for long periods of time not just 10 minutes. Should I be concerned that this is happening? I apologize this is fairly long I just want to be as complete as possible.

Please! Could really use your help!
(snip)
I have read through many other posts talking about burn-in and image retention. From reading other posts it seems that this after image should only show up if there is static images on the screen for long periods of time not just 10 minutes. Should I be concerned that this is happening? I apologize this is fairly long I just want to be as complete as possible.
Quite possibly your settings are too hot. Can you tell us what they are?

Quite possibly your settings are too hot. Can you tell us what they are?

My settings are as followed:

Pic Mode - Standard
Picture - +10 out of 30
Brightness - 0 out of 30
Color - 0 out of 30
Tint - 0 out of 30
Sharpness - 0 out of 30
Color Temp - Cool
Color mng. - On
Video NR - Off
3D Y/C Filter - On
MPEG NR - Off

Thanks for the reply, If you have any thoughts on what my settings should be, please let me know

That doesn't look too bad. Maybe try dialing your picture down to 5 & see if that improves it. Also, you can try checking this thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=657575

Well, in my opinipon its only slightly perceiveable now.

The rest of your comment worries me because I played it for way more than 10 hours. If I had already watched the TV for 100 hours, id put Madden at maybe 40 hours of that time. So you're saying that it make take 240 hours to get back to square one? Yikes...

Yeah, though, that's the baseline. That assumes you use the same settings for games and the same settings for video. If you play games in power save mode, or lower contrast/color/brightness settings, and then jack them up for other video, you can probably reduce it to 4x. 2 hours madden, 8 hours video. This ratio will go down once you are past the 1000 hour mark.

I mainly got my Plasma for Xbox360, and really hate the IR issues, but frankly I wanted the absolute best picture possible and there's no way an LCD can do it. If you go back 10 or so pages, you'll hear my story.

The way I'm dealing with old/new IR is whenever I'm not using the TV, I am looping the break-in DVD at high contrast/color settings. Once you babysit it a few times, and have a good DVD player, you can have it running when you sleep/go to work. For some reason when the DVD finishes it auto-shuts off my xbox360.

If you run it while you sleep/work (16 hours), you can then game for about 4 hours a day with no issues, which should keep ya happy. After 1k hours, I'd just run the DVD overnight once a week to keep phosphors up to speed.

Well, when things get back to normal...which based on how much its faded so far will probably take a month or so...I plan on using game mode for any static-image games.

Of course, this would all be a non-issue if developers would make use of transparent and disappearing HUDS, or let you adjust them. I really dont like the idea of babysitting my TV, but I understand its just an inherent trade-off for the technology.

Game mode is a good start, but don't expect it to make you immune to IR. The worst IR I have atm is from using Game Mode, Power Save mode 1 on my 4270HD, playing a game for about ~10 hours in a short amount of time at 200hours of panel life.

There's not a lot of sympathy for plasma burn in as far as game companies or broadcasting networks are concerned. Some people may say that's a good thing, as it forces plasma manufacturers to make improvements/changes to the panel, which overall delivers a better product.

I really think this whole IR/Burn-In worry about gaming is WAAAAYYYY overrated.
I am a recent owner of the Panny 50px60u.
I did the 100 hour break-in at "0" settings before playing 360 longer than an hour.

Now I play Gears of War, F.E.A.R., and other game with HUDS for longer than an hour. Sometimes 2 hours at a time. Then I switch to a black and/or white imput and see SLIGHT IR from the HUD. After less than an hour of TV, the IR is COMPLETELY GONE.

Not only that, but the degree of IR I see after 2 hours of gaming is the EXACT SAME level or IR I see on my set after a 30 sec commercial with a logo (e.g. BOSE) or a minute of a logo-filled channel. This leads me to believe that all this is nonsence.

The ONLY thing I do is make sure I play my games at the old picture settings at "0" and if I play longer than an hour, I "zoom" the screen in for the remaining time to change the location of the HUD.

I'm not worried at all anymore.

I have been spending a lot of time on these forums while waiting for my Panasonic 50PH9UK to arrive from a popular national warehouse store. I intend to use the panel for abt 3-6 hrs a day running SD Indian channels that have a logo on the bottom. While I can zoom in to cover the entire panel the logo will still remain. Would this cause any permanent damage to the panel? I do plan to use the Burn In DVD for 100-200 hrs. If required I can use it on the first month each night as well.

I really think this whole IR/Burn-In worry about gaming is WAAAAYYYY overrated.
I am a recent owner of the Panny 50px60u.
I did the 100 hour break-in at "0" settings before playing 360 longer than an hour.

Now I play Gears of War, F.E.A.R., and other game with HUDS for longer than an hour. Sometimes 2 hours at a time. Then I switch to a black and/or white imput and see SLIGHT IR from the HUD. After less than an hour of TV, the IR is COMPLETELY GONE.

Not only that, but the degree of IR I see after 2 hours of gaming is the EXACT SAME level or IR I see on my set after a 30 sec commercial with a logo (e.g. BOSE) or a minute of a logo-filled channel. This leads me to believe that all this is nonsence.

The ONLY thing I do is make sure I play my games at the old picture settings at "0" and if I play longer than an hour, I "zoom" the screen in for the remaining time to change the location of the HUD.

I'm not worried at all anymore.

Same Here, I played TDU for alittle over 4 hours straight *alittle tipsy* and not even IR. I have the same Panasonic,

I really think this whole IR/Burn-In worry about gaming is WAAAAYYYY overrated.
I am a recent owner of the Panny 50px60u.
I did the 100 hour break-in at "0" settings before playing 360 longer than an hour.

Now I play Gears of War, F.E.A.R., and other game with HUDS for longer than an hour. Sometimes 2 hours at a time. Then I switch to a black and/or white imput and see SLIGHT IR from the HUD. After less than an hour of TV, the IR is COMPLETELY GONE.

Not only that, but the degree of IR I see after 2 hours of gaming is the EXACT SAME level or IR I see on my set after a 30 sec commercial with a logo (e.g. BOSE) or a minute of a logo-filled channel. This leads me to believe that all this is nonsence.

The ONLY thing I do is make sure I play my games at the old picture settings at "0" and if I play longer than an hour, I "zoom" the screen in for the remaining time to change the location of the HUD.

I'm not worried at all anymore.

I have the same tv just the 42 inch model and I also put the settings at zero but I and have the same image retention as mentioned above. Is there any way to make sure the pixels orbiter/shifter is on and working in my tv?

I wouldn't think that having a logo up for 30 secs should leave anything at all. Everyone keeps saying that this kind of behavior should only happpen if you leave static images up for hrs upon hrs or days at a time.

Do plasmas have memory? What I mean by that is...let's say I'm playing Lost Planet on my Xbox 360...it has a radar in the HUD that usually leaves IR (not burn in)...now after watching TV for a bit, it dims and goes away...

However, the next time I play the game, does the TV get IR quicker in that spot since it had IR there before? Just wondering...

Do plasmas have memory? What I mean by that is...let's say I'm playing Lost Planet on my Xbox 360...it has a radar in the HUD that usually leaves IR (not burn in)...now after watching TV for a bit, it dims and goes away...

However, the next time I play the game, does the TV get IR quicker in that spot since it had IR there before? Just wondering...


EXCELLENT QUESTION!!!!!!!!!


I have been trying to put this question into words for a while..and you did it. Any thoughts?

No, they don't have 'memory.' Each phosphor/pixel on the screen has its own age and depending on the age it has a certain dim rate. The older the phosphor, the slower the dim rate.

This idea of different dim rates is what allows IR/Burn in to go away given enough time because the younger pixels dim faster then used pixels. However, as it gets closer, the younger pixels dim rate begins to slow down and will technically NEVER approach the older pixels unless some type of reverse imagery is used.

As long as you do what you can between sessions to keep the aging even (break in dvd, full video, white washes, etc), there is no memory.

No, they don't have 'memory.' Each phosphor/pixel on the screen has its own age and depending on the age it has a certain dim rate. The older the phosphor, the slower the dim rate.

This idea of different dim rates is what allows IR/Burn in to go away given enough time because the younger pixels dim faster then used pixels. However, as it gets closer, the younger pixels dim rate begins to slow down and will technically NEVER approach the older pixels unless some type of reverse imagery is used.

As long as you do what you can between sessions to keep the aging even (break in dvd, full video, white washes, etc), there is no memory.

This answer doesn't make sense to me a for a couple reasons.

1) If the dim rate for a pixel/phosphor slows down as it gets older, how do you explain the fact that the chance for IR/Burn-in actually reduces the older the phosphor is (the more hours on your tv)? It seems to me that IR/Burn-In risk would be directly proportional to the dim rate. Meaning, the faster the dim rate, the less chance for IR/B-I.

2) If what you are saying is true...meaning phosphors age differently and individually, then this is a "memory" of sorts. Because the HUD or Logo is always in the same spot, this is aging those particular phosphors/pixels more than the others. And it does so each time you play with that HUD or watch with that logo. So, the HUD-associated pixels/phosphors age faster and thus have a "memory" in terms of their dim rates.

When your panel is older, and all your phosphors are older, their dim rates are all low.

To create IR/Burn in on a plasma panel, you need some pixels on the screen to be visibly less bright then others. When dim rates are high, and you use static logo's (which use one continuous phosphor combination for an extended period of time), this creates the visible gap in brightness. The phosphors under the logo have dimmed considerably more then the surrounding phosphors. So much, that it's visible. This is why young panels cause IR so easily.

When then panel is old (by old, I mean evenly worn for a long amount of time, about ~1k hours normal viewing) dim rates are lower. If you subject the screen to the same static logo torture, it takes much LONGER for a visible difference in brightness to occur.

It doesn't mean your panel is immune to uneven phosphor wear when it's old. It just means it takes a lot longer to achive the same gap in brightness that it did when your panel was young.

Well Said

When your panel is older, and all your phosphors are older, their dim rates are all low.

To create IR/Burn in on a plasma panel, you need some pixels on the screen to be visibly less bright then others. When dim rates are high, and you use static logo's (which use one continuous phosphor combination for an extended period of time), this creates the visible gap in brightness. The phosphors under the logo have dimmed considerably more then the surrounding phosphors. So much, that it's visible. This is why young panels cause IR so easily.

When then panel is old (by old, I mean evenly worn for a long amount of time, about ~1k hours normal viewing) dim rates are lower. If you subject the screen to the same static logo torture, it takes much LONGER for a visible difference in brightness to occur.

It doesn't mean your panel is immune to uneven phosphor wear when it's old. It just means it takes a lot longer to achive the same gap in brightness that it did when your panel was young.

WEll that clears up one of my questions. The other, then, is how is this not "memory?" If you play a game with a HUD, for example, and then clear the IR with hours of full screen content, the phosphors under that HUD are still "older" than the others. So when you play that game again, those HUD-phosphers are still older. This is not a memory of sorts????

I'm not trying to argue, just understand.

For practical argument, yes, all the phosphors exposed to the hud elements will be slightly older then surrounding phosphors. As time goes on, this slight difference will be virtually 'imperceivable.'

For practical argument, yes, all the phosphors exposed to the hud elements will be slightly older then surrounding phosphors. As time goes on, this slight difference will be virtually 'imperceivable.'


You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Just kidding.

So, if after time goes on the difference is inconcei...er...imperceivable, are you saying that IR/Burn is basically only possible within the first 1000 hours?

No, I mean it's virtually impossible to correct uneven phosphor wear and every panel gets uneven phosphor wear to SOME degree. Every panel, regardless of content, will have SOME uneven phosphor wear. Period. The only way to not get uneven phosphor wear is to watch the break in DVD where every pixel/phosphor is used the exact same way with every scene.

Burn in is uneven phosphor wear to such a degree that the human eye can perceive a difference in brightness.

Regardless of the type of content you watch, there's absolutely no way that all 1-2 million pixels have the exact same age on all 3 of their phosphors. No movie or game exercises all pixels evenly. If you watch a Discovery channel show about some hikers going through the forest... chances are most of the time there's green trees at the bottom of the screen, and blue sky at the top. That's going to cause uneven wear. The top part of the screen has used more blue, the bottom more green, and there wasn't alot of red used except during white (clouds, hiker shirts, rocks, etc...)

What keeps uneven phosphor wear from being visible is that dim rates change based on age. I want you to picture two runners. One has a 1000 foot head start (burn in) over the other. The lead runner is moving at 10ft/sec (slow dim rate), the back runner is moving at 12ft/sec (fast dim rate). The gap (burn in) is going to start shrinking (burn in less visible) because the back runner is moving faster (younger phosphors age faster). But as they move forward (playing full video), their running speeds are goin down (dim rate is a function of age). After about 10 seconds, the lead runner is now moving at 9ft/sec, the back runner is moving at 11ft/sec. The gap is shrinking, but it's not shrinking as fast anymore. etc.... etc...

The back runner never catches up, but he gets slightly closer and slightly closer as time goes on. After a long time (many hours of motion video), it appears that both runner have run the same practical distance (phosphor wear appears even)

When you have an OLD panel, it takes considerably longer to get that type of head start, and you won't see the burn in because the head start never gets that big. However, if you still do the same exact content over and over again, you will cause uneven phosphor wear even on older plasma's. Just instead of taking 5 hours to get some IR from that Gears of War logo, it would take ~50 hours.

You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Just kidding.
My name is XboxEboy, your burned my plasma, prepare to die ;)

So, if after time goes on the difference is inconcei...er...imperceivable, are you saying that IR/Burn is basically only possible within the first 1000 hours?
Burn in is possible after 1000 hours. It just takes longer for a static image to be burned in.

On the flip side, if your plasma is older than 1000 hours and you have burn in, it will take longer to remove it.