My name is XboxEboy, your burned my plasma, prepare to die ;)


Burn in is possible after 1000 hours. It just takes longer for a static image to be burned in.

On the flip side, if your plasma is older than 1000 hours and you have burn in, it will take longer to remove it.

You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched tvs when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when burn-in is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...


LOL. Thanks for the explanation! I also enjoyed the Leni Riefenstahl "Olypia"-like running analogy (and associated imagery),

Am I freaking out for no reason? That is the question.

I have the Hitachi 42HDS69 and have noticed, ever-so-faintly, the ESPN logo "burned" into my screen. Granted, it's not noticeable from viewing distance (about 10ft) and can really only be noticed when I am right next to the screen and when the screen wipe is on. I have run the screen wipe with little improvement. I have the pixels set to shift every 2 minutes.

Hopefully this is nothing major since I have gone out of my way to prevent harmful "burn." I did my homework and avoided 2.35:1 films and sidebars through the 100 hour break-in period.

Thanks to anyone who can alleviate my fears!

EDIT: I have had the set for about a month, by the way.

If all you do is watch ESPN, that logo will continue to get worse, regardless of the age of the panel. The first 100 hours panels are VERY sensitive to logo's, during the next 900 hours they are less sensitive (note: less, not immune)

Pixel shift won't help much, the only thing pixel shift will do is create a gradient between the bright parts of your panel, and the darker logo area. If there's a gradient there, it's harder to casually notice.

If that logo is bothering you, I suggest you run the break in DVD on this forum overnight, or whenever your panel isn't being used. Run it at high contrast/color/brightness. Every hour you have that logo on the screen, you have to pay out 5 hours of non-logo material to prevent that IR from becoming serious.

Am I freaking out for no reason? That is the question.

I have the Hitachi 42HDS69 and have noticed, ever-so-faintly, the ESPN logo "burned" into my screen.

If you continue to watch ESPN more than 20% of the time, The best way to prevent/eliminate burn-in is using a negative screen saver. Where it will take 5 hours of other programming for every hour you watch ESPN, running negative will work much faster. Only 1 hour of negative 1 hour ESPN. If your PDP doesn't have negative, then you have to go the full screen programming route.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm currently running the Break-In DVD at 75% contrast and I think it may already be working. The logo was very faint to begin with (I couldn't even notice it when watching normal TV, SD or HD), but I guess it just bothers me that it's there.

Thanks again for the help and I'll report back in the next day or so after gassing it with this DVD.

Just make using the break in DVD a routine during the first 1k hours. Run it overnight once a week. Run it more or less often depending on the IR you start seeing.

Will do. This sucks because I love my ESPNHD, but I do wish they'd dim that BRIGHT white logo. The red "HD" part has not caused any problem.

I'll update with results once I really get some time in with the DVD. I have (or want) to think this will go away.

Will do. This sucks because I love my ESPNHD, but I do wish they'd dim that BRIGHT white logo. The red "HD" part has not caused any problem.

I'll update with results once I really get some time in with the DVD. I have (or want) to think this will go away.

White gets me too...I'm about 2 weeks in with a faded Madden logo I can see only on white screens (it shows up a dim shadow-purplish). I can't say its faded all that much, but everyone seems to think it's just IR.

If you continue to watch ESPN more than 20% of the time, The best way to prevent/eliminate burn-in is using a negative screen saver. Where it will take 5 hours of other programming for every hour you watch ESPN, running negative will work much faster. Only 1 hour of negative 1 hour ESPN. If your PDP doesn't have negative, then you have to go the full screen programming route.

Where can I get a negative screen saver? I'd love a reverse image program, but all Samsung provides is signal pattern and white wash.

Am I freaking out for no reason? That is the question.

I have the Hitachi 42HDS69 and have noticed, ever-so-faintly, the ESPN logo "burned" into my screen. Granted, it's not noticeable from viewing distance (about 10ft) and can really only be noticed when I am right next to the screen and when the screen wipe is on. I have run the screen wipe with little improvement. I have the pixels set to shift every 2 minutes.

Hopefully this is nothing major since I have gone out of my way to prevent harmful "burn." I did my homework and avoided 2.35:1 films and sidebars through the 100 hour break-in period.

Thanks to anyone who can alleviate my fears!

EDIT: I have had the set for about a month, by the way.

I have the same TV. The IR issue didn't really start to become a non-factor until I reached about 700 hours. Now I'm pushing 1000 and I don't really think about it at all...except when playing Madden 07 on 360. Damn EA, damn them to hell.

I have the same TV. The IR issue didn't really start to become a non-factor until I reached about 700 hours. Now I'm pushing 1000 and I don't really think about it at all...except when playing Madden 07 on 360. Damn EA, damn them to hell.

Thanks for the valuable info! Do you have any IR still or did it all even out with some varied viewing?

I love this set, by the way.

Well another sort of update, I have had my 42px60u for a while now and almost only play gears of war, and watch a few movies sometimes. When im on the computer or not using the xbox though, I run it on a fullscreen channel. I can still notice the GOW ammo icon on like white and yellow screens, even after hours of movies. Ill have to check how many hours are on the TV now, but nobody can really notice it but me. Also, i watched a 2.35:1 HD DVD the other day and noticed the lines after the movie was done, but those are definetly gone already. Only thing that im wondering, how many years will this last? This TV looks amazing and everyone compliments the PQ on it, i love it. Will there come a day where the ammo bar will be permanetly there? I play that game soo much and it looks so good, i dont really worry about because of that lol. Thanks for the info!

If you currently play a single game all the time, you will likely get IR or mild burn in. But a year from now, how much do you think you will be playing that game? 3 years from now, will that game even get a minute of use?

We talk about the 15% rule to prevent burn-in: No static images for more than 15% of the total use on the TV. Even if you play a game all the time now, in a few years, as you switch to other games, the hours you spent on that original game will likely be less than 15% of the total hours used and any IR that it caused in the first year will probably be gone.

15% rule is not limited to a few weeks or months. It applies to the entire life of the plasma. To put it into perspective, even hard core games don't have much to worry about unless you play the same game over 15% of the time for years on end. That is if you can stand the temporary IR you will get.

To me, the only application that risks permanent burn in is static digital signage like you find in airport terminals.

Once you are over 1k hours or so, yeah, you can play games 100% of the time. Just don't play the same game for more then 15% of your panel time. So mix in a little bit of Rainbow Six: Vegas, and another title of your choice.

Update on my own IR (N3 Yellow Hud). I played N3 (Xbox360 game) for about 12 hours on/off in a short time, using power save settings and Game mode on a Pioneer PDP4270HD. There are a TON of bright yellow/white HUD elements that stay on the screen forever. The worst is a circular HP hud that is solid yellow to represent life, and dark green when low on life.

Screenshot of the game: http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747832/img_3880718.html

My panel was 200 hours old with a decent mix of break in watching and I thought I was 'safe.' The game left behind almost all the elements. Kills, combo, level, etc. It was nightmarish.

It's been about 300 hours of non-N3 gaming, break in DVD running, and movie watching. Panel is now 520 hours old. Almost all IR has disappeared. The only IR still remaining is the upper part of the arc, and it's virtually imperceivable (need to stare at that section of the screen and squint to barely make it out the shadow on a solid yellow test pattern.)

I'm hoping in another 100-200 hours it'll all be gone.

Thanks for the valuable info! Do you have any IR still or did it all even out with some varied viewing?

I love this set, by the way.

If you're playing Madden on this set the best thing I can tell you is to switch between 16:9 Standard 1 and 16:9 Standard 2. This moves the ticker up and down. I switch ratios with every posession. It sounds like more of a pain than it really is. That's the only game I take extra precaution with.

For all other gaming, I've stopped worrying. I don't tend to play one game for too long. The other night I played Marvel Ultimate Alliance for maybe 2 hours and played Lost Planet for about 2 the next day followed by a little Crackdown (believe it or not I have a successful career, a wife, and other interests, amazing, huh?!) and nothing was left behind save for a little temp IR.

As far as movies go, I'll watch 2:35 ratios whenever I damn well please! The bars take no more than 10 minutes to go away and I'd say most films I watch are letterboxed.

Like I said, I'm approaching 1000 hours, so I'm feeling pretty good. If it wasn't for Madden things would be dandy for me. NBA 2K7 and NHL 07 cause no such problems.

To recap, I've noticed a huge difference with the amount of time IR stays on my screen. Take it easy at first, then let fly. Me, I used a 20" LCD monitor for my 360 for the first few hundred hours. Didn't really start gaming on the plasma until I reached about 550 hours.

Remember, the aspect ratio switch could be your best friend. If I was to go "all marathon" one night, I'm sure I'd be pressing that button quite a bit.

If you're playing Madden on this set the best thing I can tell you is to switch between 16:9 Standard 1 and 16:9 Standard 2. This moves the ticker up and down. I switch ratios with every posession. It sounds like more of a pain than it really is. That's the only game I take extra precaution with.

....

Like I said, I'm approaching 1000 hours, so I'm feeling pretty good. If it wasn't for Madden things would be dandy for me. NBA 2K7 and NHL 07 cause no such problems.



Not a bad idea...altho since I already have Madden 07 IR, i worry about any playing of it that will put the ticker in the position where the IR persists...

I swear, they put a ridiculous amount of development into AI, moves you will rarely use, and making sure the player's tattoos are authentic, and then they design their game like its only to be played on CRTs!! Damn you EA!!

Hi everyone -- apologies if this specific question has been answered before. I've searched this and the main px60/600u forums, but it's difficult when your search terms are "used" and "burn-in" :-) -- LOT'S of replies to sort through and I couldn't find the specific answer I'm looking for....

Just looking for a quick answer to this question: if I'm looking at a used/open-box plasma, what's a quick test I could do to check for burn-in?

Here's the context: I can get a pretty killer deal from my local Circuit City on an open-box Panny 42px60u, with 22 months interest-free. Combined with the $100 off for signing up for HDTV service through my local cable (which I was going to do anyway), it's significantly cheaper than any online price I can find for this TV. Considering that I get the benefit of a B&M return policy and the full 1-year manufacturer's warranty, I'm about to jump the gun.

However, I'm obviously paranoid about buying a display TV that has been sitting out on display in "torch" mode for the last couple of months. Thus, my question. What can I do while looking at the TV in the store to test for any burn-in problems? Should I unplug the input cables or change to an unused source input and stare at the blue screen for a while?

Also, if anyone has anyone general thoughts or suggestions on the topic of buying open-box plasmas, or any specific questions I need to make sure to ask the CC drones, I'd love to hear it. Thanks in advance!

Ideally, you want to somehow be able to display solid colors on the screen, at various settings and distances, in a dark room. Not just one color, but a few.

White, yellow, blue, green, and red. If the TV features a USB port for viewing pictures, you can bring those images on a flash drive.

If it doesn't have a USB port, ask them to connect a DVD player, burn a DVD with those images and view it via that.

You want the room dark, and you should cycle through viewing modes. Some IR isn't visible on torch mode, and is more visible on non-torch mode, and vice versa.

That may not be the easiest thing to do, but it would be comprehensive.

The Break in DVD should have all the solid colors you need to evaluate if there is any burn in. 60/600s also have SD card slots so you can put images on an SD card to view.

Also check the hours used. Bruzzi FAQ has instructions on how to do this. Use the following rules of thumb. If the set has < 100 used, any burn-in on the screen will likely wash away in the next 1000 hours. If the set has > 1000 and you see burn in, it is less likely for this to wash away.

The break-in DVD is probably good enough, but some IR caused by white logo's strangely enough will not show easily on some white slides. When I had IR caused by yellow or white elements, I could not easily see them on the white, green, or red slides of the break in DVD.

However, when using a solid yellow slide, they were easily apparent.

Although early burn in can wash away, it can take a really long time.

Is it worth saving a few hundred dollars to put up with a crappy picture for the initial viewing periods of your TV? A display model that had a logo on it for 50% of the time over 300 hours would take in excess of 750 hours to wash away, and probably closer to 1000 hours to disappear completely.

At 4 hours a day of viewing, that's more than 8 months... 1000 hours of pain for ~500 dollars of savings? Depending on how much you value your picture, I'm willing to wager there would be MANY times you'll say to yourself "I'd pay 50 cents right now to have a perfect picture for an hour"

If the burn-in is only visible on solid color screens and not during normal programming, then it might be worth the savings. Burn in that is clearly visible during tv programming is what I consider severe burn-in and I'd stay away no matter what the hours used.

Thanks for the great suggestions so far, very helpful. I printed out the instructions from Bruzzi on how to check hours used -- it took me a few minutes of playing around to decode the hex system, but once I realized it was just a base-16 counting system it made sense.

I'll bring an SD card with some solid color images on it to view on the TV. Both of you have very valid points -- I'll give it a very thorough check for any IR and check different colors before I buy an open-box plasma. Basically, I agree with both of you -- if there's visible IR, it's not worth the savings.... but if there isn't, I think it's a good value.

Any further advice or suggestions is much appreciated. Thanks again!

I'm setting up a Panasonic TH-42PH9UK 42" commercial plasma as a marketing display, to show a PowerPoint that loops during business hours. The PowerPoint contains two types of slides, each with a logo in a consistent location - it will show a couple slides of one type, then a couple of the other, etc. So there is no logo present constantly in the same spot throughout the day and I've also setup the slide transitions to use animation effects on the slow speed - hoping that it will help prevent the logos from burning in as well.

The plasma has a screensaver that can automatically turn on on a schedule, so I was considering having that run each evening when the office is empty. Would it be better to just turn the plasma off each evening, or let it run with a screensaver or perhaps some fish tank/scenery DVD?

I've never owned a plasma, so the burn-in issue is pretty new to me. Do you have any suggestions on how I should setup a powerpoint to minimize burn-in? Templates are ideal since office staff will be maintaining it and updating the contents with current real estate listings and whatnot.

Thanks!
Matt

To absolutely guarantee no burn-in, Run the exact same powerpoint in negative screen saver mode for the same number of hours the powerpoint was on in normal mode. So if you run the powerpoint for 8 hours straight during the day, run the same powerpoint in negative for 8 hours at night. This will guarantee you even pixel wear.

To absolutely guarantee no burn-in, Run the exact same powerpoint in negative screen saver mode for the same number of hours the powerpoint was on in normal mode. So if you run the powerpoint for 8 hours straight during the day, run the same powerpoint in negative for 8 hours at night. This will guarantee you even pixel wear.

Good advice. If it is not practical, then it is better to leave your plasma on with constantly changing content (such as a good screen saver) than off.

Can you alternate colors with the logo or make it at least 50% transparent?

Yeah, ideally to minimize IR and maximize even phosphor wear, a plasma TV should be running 24/7, showing balanced color content at higher then usual settings whenever not in use during the first 1k hours of the set (i.e. break in DVD).

This may not be practical/possible for alot of people though.

Update: I have been running the break-in DVD combined with Discovery HD Theater content (negligible, very transparent logo every-so-often) over the past 2 weeks and my ESPN logo has faded significantly. It can only be faintly seen on a completely white screen if you know exactly where to look. Hopefully with another 100 hours or so I can knock it out completely. Thanks to everyone for the help and tips!

Since I am out of the house 7-8 hrs a day, what do people think about breaking in the plasma on discovery hd alone? I am currently using the break in dvd but today, when I got home, for some reason my dvd was stuck on the white screen. I think it stayed that way for about an hour or so. So now i don't really want to use my dvd player (my 360) as a break in device. Since discovery hd has very little logos and runs programs 24/7 i'm thinking that might be the best way. Does anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

Since I am out of the house 7-8 hrs a day, what do people think about breaking in the plasma on discovery hd alone? I am currently using the break in dvd but today, when I got home, for some reason my dvd was stuck on the white screen. I think it stayed that way for about an hour or so. So now i don't really want to use my dvd player (my 360) as a break in device. Since discovery hd has very little logos and runs programs 24/7 i'm thinking that might be the best way. Does anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

Though I'm sure to be disagreed with, I think it's an adequate solution. The big difference between any kind of TV programming and a break-in DVD is uncertainty and inconsistency. Running a break-in DVD you know exactly what your TV will be exposed to and can thus gauge how it will affect the TV. Running regular programming will bombard your TV with colors and patterns far less predictable, obviously. However, when it comes to break-in, maintenance and avoiding burn-in or eliminating temporary IR, I still believe there would be no difference between using the two. It's the more serious IR that a break-in DVD will probably have the clear edge on.

Be careful running the break-in DVD unattended. If your DVD player gets stuck on an all red screen for several hours, it would not be a good thing.

has anyone ever used discovery hd as their sole source of break in and how did that experience go?

has anyone ever used discovery hd as their sole source of break in and how did that experience go?

Perfect.

Perfect.


perfectly well or perfectly horrible? :p

well i left this morning with discovery hd on so we'll see how it goes when i get back home. If i find out there is some horrible IR or burn in... it is all on williamr's head LOL. (j\k)

perfectly well or perfectly horrible? :p

well i left this morning with discovery hd on so we'll see how it goes when i get back home. If i find out there is some horrible IR or burn in... it is all on williamr's head LOL. (j\k)

I've done the same thing with no issues whatsoever. Discovery runs their very transparent logo every fifteen minutes or so for only about 10-15 seconds. No worries at all with logo burn-in.

perfectly well or perfectly horrible? :p

well i left this morning with discovery hd on so we'll see how it goes when i get back home. If i find out there is some horrible IR or burn in... it is all on williamr's head LOL. (j\k)

As long as you don't have a power hiccup or cable problem, you're good to go.

I've also found that pbs hd works just as well. Pbs NEVER shows it's logo and all it's commercials are HD. Might even be better for break in than Discovery because Discovery tends to show alot of greens.

Chalk up another true believer in the break-in DVD!

I burned my first ever DVD to get started as I await installation, and because I am an idiot, I hit the wrong button and left the service menu on for hours 98-115. Luckily, the menu is opaque gray, and 40 hours of the DVD later, and I cannot see any remnant of the shadow left behind!

One question. I feel like i'm going crazy. When I check for burn in, I just turn off my cable box and look at the dark blank screen. But i dunno if my eyes are decieveing me but i feel like I see very VERY faint outlines. Actually they're not even outlines but more like spots that are a bit lighter than other spots. Is this normal?

One question. I feel like i'm going crazy. When I check for burn in, I just turn off my cable box and look at the dark blank screen. But i dunno if my eyes are decieveing me but i feel like I see very VERY faint outlines. Actually they're not even outlines but more like spots that are a bit lighter than other spots. Is this normal?

I can't comment for anyone else, but I get a lot of the same stuff. I have some mild IR of the EA logo from Madden 07, and then I have some barely perceivable IR of the play-selection screen outlines. You chalk the difference between their ability to be perceived to how long they're on the screen and the contrast between the logo/outline and the background when they are.

The important thing is that it doesn't affect your normal viewing, but only shows up when you're checking for burn-in. I think it's very normal, but the fact that you're not even sure that you see them kinda shows how minor it is. Don't go crazy about it, we're with you! Haha

I just got my Panasonic 42PX600U and first thing I did was try out Xbox 360, I noticed that there was some retention with Fight Night Round 3 game, so I stopped playing.

The retention has gone but I want to limit any further mishaps.

I calibrated using the guide on ******************* - but it seems like ppl are running this DVD during the break in period of 100 hours. After reading multiple threads and somewhat confused if brightness and contrast should be kept low or high during this period. I had it high for 1 hour but changed it to the following:

Picture Mode Standard
Picture -10
Brightness -10
Color -1
Tint -4
Sharpness -14
Color Temperature Warm


Anyone have any recommendations on if i should change this setting. Right now, its 2am EST, so i will let it run till the morning, and also while i go to work. If anyone can provide input if my settings should be changed during this 100 hour, please let me know.

Thanks!

FYI - the aspect I have is the default that came configured.

ju421019 - I just replied to your double post here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10031893&&#post10031893

So you got some IR after playing the game. No big deal, don't stress, it will easily go away. I gamed for hours when my plasma was new, had some IR, but it went away quickly. I have not changed my habits since.

Run it at the settings you expect to run at after break in. If anything, run it a little higher when using the disk. Here is a post from D-Nice concerning plasmas and break in settings: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731242&page=26&pp=30

Thanks - and im giving up on this dvd burn in deal since I think I am getting more paranoid through this process than i should. Now, I am started to think the dvd caused some sort of like horizontal line on the bottom of the screen after i let it run for about 18 hours straight. My wife thinks I am crazy and seeing things that are not there.

Thus, I've decided to give up on the dvd and just enjoy the set with low picture/brightness until 100 hours, at which time I will go by the settings recommended by plasma@@buyinguide.

Thanks - and im giving up on this dvd burn in deal since I think I am getting more paranoid through this process than i should. Now, I am started to think the dvd caused some sort of like horizontal line on the bottom of the screen after i let it run for about 18 hours straight. My wife thinks I am crazy and seeing things that are not there.

Thus, I've decided to give up on the dvd and just enjoy the set with low picture/brightness until 100 hours, at which time I will go by the settings recommended by plasma@@buyinguide.What seems Kr8z is you posted a copy of this post in at least 3 different threads. :confused:

I just got my Panasonic 42PX600U and first thing I did was try out Xbox 360, I noticed that there was some retention with Fight Night Round 3 game, so I stopped playing.

The retention has gone but I want to limit any further mishaps.

I calibrated using the guide on ******************* - but it seems like ppl are running this DVD during the break in period of 100 hours. After reading multiple threads and somewhat confused if brightness and contrast should be kept low or high during this period. I had it high for 1 hour but changed it to the following:

Picture Mode Standard
Picture -10
Brightness -10
Color -1
Tint -4
Sharpness -14
Color Temperature Warm


Anyone have any recommendations on if i should change this setting. Right now, its 2am EST, so i will let it run till the morning, and also while i go to work. If anyone can provide input if my settings should be changed during this 100 hour, please let me know.

Thanks!

FYI - the aspect I have is the default that came configured.


How did you get IR on Fight Night? There's no HUD?!?!?!

Curious because of buddy of mine just bought an HD and is scared shitless of Burn In. I told him its not really an issue unless you go 18 or 24 or 48 hours on the same pic. Seems to me that IR is fairly prevelant but goes away within a few hours in bad cases and that Burn In is very rare on new sets.

What would have to happen to have burn in on a new plasma? I've read numerous incidents of 4, 6 or 8 hours of the same thing being on a screen and it not burning in.

Don't worry 6speedTA. You'd have to really screw up and leave it on a static page for quite a while to cause burn-in or IR. I've got my Pioneer 5070 set to nearly vivid mode settings and do alot of gaming and watch alot of Discovery HD and no issues whatsoever. I've even watched stations with their annoying icon at the lower left/right hand portion of the screen with no problems. You'd have to be a total ****** (figuratelively, not literally ;) for all you sensitive types)to screw something up that bad. LOL

hello, i am new to this forum and before i bought my plasma HDTV, i did all the research neccassary and the burn-in precautions i got the most info from was this thread

well here is my troubling story...

so i bought the Samsung 42 inch Plasma (HPS4253X)(at CC) on Feb.19 and this past friday i noticed the ugliest IR but what it was from surprised me, it is from the channel display our digital cable has(its IO digital cable from cablevision). Now this isnt the first IR i have had. On the top left side, i get it from watching soccer games, basically only the white letters stayed this goes away after about three hours of normal viewing however the same channel ,sometimes the channel shows its logo on the right side and i could watch the entire game(45 minutes per half) without any IR leaving behind on the right side

now coming back to the problem, most of the IR from the channel display went away except the area where the diagonal buttons are shown is still there, you could only see it however when bright vivid colors are shown on the display(the diagonal buttons shown is white)

yesturday, i went to CC where i bought it to tell them about my image problem, they were very perplexed about it and told me just to bring it in sense i am still in the 30 day warrenty. i took it back to CC this morning but they didnt have any in stock as they arent carrying it anymore.

i havent called Samsung yet about this problem as the warrenty doesnt cover burn-ins however this is very strange, btw i kept the contrast and brightness at 60 and 50(out of 100) each and use super saving on the energy option.

also, i began to get this IR(on the top left corner) the next day i bought a hometheatre system which was a week after i bought the TV, i tried running the burn-in protection software which is installed with the TV(pixel shift is on and i ran signal shift on for an hour on friday) which worked for the logo when i first noticed it but left a faint image of the channel display(which there is no way of turning it off when changing channels unless you press exit the second the channel is turned). Now one of the CC salesmen told that my speakers might be the problem as i have the left and right speaker right next to the TV and center on top of the panel stand and today i uninstalled the speakers and i am using the TVs speakers for now as i muted them when i bought the sound system, i'll probably install the speakers on my wall

this is giving me a headache as i thought i was doing everything right, can anyone help me with this, i will call samsung about it tomarrow as today is sunday, any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advanced

hello, i am new to this forum and before i bought my plasma HDTV, i did all the research neccassary and the burn-in precautions i got the most info from was this thread

well here is my troubling story...

so i bought the Samsung 42 inch Plasma (HPS4253X)(at CC) on Feb.19 and this past friday i noticed the ugliest IR but what it was from surprised me, it is from the channel display our digital cable has(its IO digital cable from cablevision). Now this isnt the first IR i have had. On the top left side, i get it from watching soccer games, basically only the white letters stayed this goes away after about three hours of normal viewing however the same channel ,sometimes the channel shows its logo on the right side and i could watch the entire game(45 minutes per half) without any IR leaving behind on the right side

now coming back to the problem, most of the IR from the channel display went away except the area where the diagonal buttons are shown is still there, you could only see it however when bright vivid colors are shown on the display(the diagonal buttons shown is white)

yesturday, i went to CC where i bought it to tell them about my image problem, they were very perplexed about it and told me just to bring it in sense i am still in the 30 day warrenty. i took it back to CC this morning but they didnt have any in stock as they arent carrying it anymore.

i havent called Samsung yet about this problem as the warrenty doesnt cover burn-ins however this is very strange, btw i kept the contrast and brightness at 60 and 50(out of 100) each and use super saving on the energy option.

also, i began to get this IR(on the top left corner) the next day i bought a hometheatre system which was a week after i bought the TV, i tried running the burn-in protection software which is installed with the TV(pixel shift is on and i ran signal shift on for an hour on friday) which worked for the logo when i first noticed it but left a faint image of the channel display(which there is no way of turning it off when changing channels unless you press exit the second the channel is turned). Now one of the CC salesmen told that my speakers might be the problem as i have the left and right speaker right next to the TV and center on top of the panel stand and today i uninstalled the speakers and i am using the TVs speakers for now as i muted them when i bought the sound system, i'll probably install the speakers on my wall

this is giving me a headache as i thought i was doing everything right, can anyone help me with this, i will call samsung about it tomarrow as today is sunday, any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advanced

Speakers? Never heard that before. Why the heck did he blame them?

Speakers can disrupt CRT displays.

If you want to stick with plasma, use the break in DVD whenever your TV isn't being watched during the 200 hours or so.

That's the least headache involving advice I can give you. If the headache is too much, I'd get an LCD.

Hi,

I got my Pio 427XA yesterday and played a bit of Oblivion on my Xbox 360 with it today. I guess it was about 5 to 6 hours (I now realize that was pretty stupid). I thought I had my settings turned down, but apparently they were only turned down for the regular tv channels and not the alternate input channels (scart, hdmi, component). So, you guessed it, whenever there is no signal on my tv I can see some bars in the lower left corner and something in the bottom of the screen. I am 99% sure this is from the game I played today. I can only see it if I'm right on it, not when I'm a couple of feet away, and also not when there something else playing.

Does any one have enough information to determine if this is IR or burn-in? And either way, is there something I could do about it?

Thanks,

For what it's worth, this was resolved pretty quickly. I get pretty bad IR whenever I play a long gaming session (5+ hours), but after a couple of hours of other stuff it fades away.

I just got a TH-42px60u and noticed some burn in tonight after playing video games. One screen was left on for 25 minutes when I got a drink and is most visible. The way I noticed it was when I cut the signal to the TV but left the TV on. You could clearly see the writing and read it and see menus.
So i came here and started reading and watched the news at the same time. After 20 minutes of the news I cut the signal to the TV again and saw not only my game menus but just about every menu/banner the news broadcast during that 20 minutes. some only being up 5 minutes. The 'local 6' square in the left corner is clear as day.

I then started changing channels and one channel on my cable system is just gray and I could not see any burn in whatsoever.

I noticed some of the lettering fading already.(15 minutes later)
I can't see burn in when I'm watching something even if it is a very dark scene.

So my question, is cutting the signal to the tv but leaving the tv on a good way to check for burn in? Or is that image I see something else?
I noticed others have said they see burn in when they turn their cable box off, pretty much what I'm doing turning the selector on my receiver. And I was curious if that is actually 'burn in'.

PS:My Dell lcd computer monitor has burn in of a 'lego star wars screensaver', of all things, that you can see faintly when looking at a dark picture or something dark. It's been there nearly a year since I turned that darn screensaver off. That seems different from the burn in I'm seeing on the panasonic which led me to my above question.

alrighty

Sometimes when I turn off my tv while watching a tv show the last frame of that show appears on my screen once the tv is off. This was very apparent one night when I turned it off and saw a scene from Futurama and could make out all the characters on the screen. This really freaks me out becuase it was not a static image! The images have all gone away but it seems my tv has image rentention very very fast. If I play a video game, or watch tv with a logo in the corner, even after 10 minutes the image retention shows up if I cut the signal to whatever I am watching.

Someone replied to my other post and said my settings may be to hot but I HAVE ALL MY PICTURE SETTINGS (Picture, Contrast, Brightness, Everything) SET AT 0.

I have a panny 42px60u, is there anyway to make sure my pixel shifter/orbiter is working. I can not find anything about it in the settings menu on the tv. Is it possible there is something wrong with my tv?
iThe Plasma is under warranty, if you have any ideas or thoughts please help!

Thanks

Hi everyone,
I'm new to avs and i love all the great advice i find on the site. I have a Pioneer 4270 and I have a TSNHD logo in the botom right of my set. I really hope it's not burn in. I have followed the break in settings recomended on this site and also have never had TSNHD on for more than 3 hours at a time (including comercials) Will this break in dvd help my set remove the burn in/IR. I have had the set since November and it probaly get's watched about 4-5 hrs a day.

Has anyone used the Pixel Protector dvd?

Any help would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks so much

I just got my Panny Last Monday and so far I have put 45 hours into it everything at zero I have seen movies, HD Discovery theater, cartoon network for the kids with the logo on the bottom and disney channel with the logo on the bottom for 1 hour at a time just the lenght of the show...no burn in and no IR at all....I will be using the TV like this for the nex 150 hours then crank the picture and brightness a little more....so far I have been enjoying without Fear...

I just got a TH-42px60u and noticed some burn in tonight after playing video games. One screen was left on for 25 minutes when I got a drink and is most visible. The way I noticed it was when I cut the signal to the TV but left the TV on. You could clearly see the writing and read it and see menus.
So i came here and started reading and watched the news at the same time. After 20 minutes of the news I cut the signal to the TV again and saw not only my game menus but just about every menu/banner the news broadcast during that 20 minutes. some only being up 5 minutes. The 'local 6' square in the left corner is clear as day.

I then started changing channels and one channel on my cable system is just gray and I could not see any burn in whatsoever.

I noticed some of the lettering fading already.(15 minutes later)
I can't see burn in when I'm watching something even if it is a very dark scene.

So my question, is cutting the signal to the tv but leaving the tv on a good way to check for burn in? Or is that image I see something else?
I noticed others have said they see burn in when they turn their cable box off, pretty much what I'm doing turning the selector on my receiver. And I was curious if that is actually 'burn in'.

PS:My Dell lcd computer monitor has burn in of a 'lego star wars screensaver', of all things, that you can see faintly when looking at a dark picture or something dark. It's been there nearly a year since I turned that darn screensaver off. That seems different from the burn in I'm seeing on the panasonic which led me to my above question.
Replace every time you said "burn in" with "image retention" and that's a start.

Replace every time you said "burn in" with "image retention" and that's a start.Amen!

Burn-in potential has been reduced so low by manufacturers that the word "burn-in" should be archived and no longer used. Only thing I can think of that should be able to use the word are companies, corporations, tv stations, airports, etc that keep the same image on the screen forever! People watching tv, playing video games, and using the PC on their tvs are not experiencing burn-in but instead image retention which will go away.

Image Retention - will go away over time
Burn In - will never go away and is very rare - unless you own a tv station or an airport

Everybody keeps saying that Burn in is not a problem with newer plasma's but I can't seem to get rid of my IR/Burn. I have over 1000 hrs on the set, I have followed breakin settings from day one, watching everything in strech to fill the screen. I watched the NHL all star game about 4 months ago and I now have a TSNHD logo on the bottom right of my screen. Nothing I do seems to help it. People say it will eventually go away, but eventually could be a long time. I can't believe that it's so fragile. It's a Pioneer PDP4270 and nothing I do seems to help it.

Does anyone have any ideas or recomendations on a fix/repair.

Becuase it's a bummer I can't use my set without worry.

Everybody keeps saying that Burn in is not a problem with newer plasma's but I can't seem to get rid of my IR/Burn. I have over 1000 hrs on the set, I have followed breakin settings from day one, watching everything in strech to fill the screen. I watched the NHL all star game about 4 months ago and I now have a TSNHD logo on the bottom right of my screen. Nothing I do seems to help it. People say it will eventually go away, but eventually could be a long time. I can't believe that it's so fragile. It's a Pioneer PDP4270 and nothing I do seems to help it.

Does anyone have any ideas or recomendations on a fix/repair.

Becuase it's a bummer I can't use my set without worry.

I have a newer Pioneer too. Didn't follow break in settings to much. No IR/Burn in. I play video games for hours (the same game for hours). No IR/Burn in. We watch movies, some widescreen with bars, we watch 2 hour shows with a logo. No IR/Burn in.

What I am saying this for is that it is a lot harder to get IR on these newer plasma sets. How long did you watch the NHL game? Was it near the beginning of the set when it was new?

I just got a TH-42px60u and noticed some burn in tonight after playing video games. One screen was left on for 25 minutes when I got a drink and is most visible. The way I noticed it was when I cut the signal to the TV but left the TV on. You could clearly see the writing and read it and see menus.
So i came here and started reading and watched the news at the same time. After 20 minutes of the news I cut the signal to the TV again and saw not only my game menus but just about every menu/banner the news broadcast during that 20 minutes. some only being up 5 minutes. The 'local 6' square in the left corner is clear as day.

I then started changing channels and one channel on my cable system is just gray and I could not see any burn in whatsoever.

I noticed some of the lettering fading already.(15 minutes later)
I can't see burn in when I'm watching something even if it is a very dark scene.

So my question, is cutting the signal to the tv but leaving the tv on a good way to check for burn in? Or is that image I see something else?
I noticed others have said they see burn in when they turn their cable box off, pretty much what I'm doing turning the selector on my receiver. And I was curious if that is actually 'burn in'.

PS:My Dell lcd computer monitor has burn in of a 'lego star wars screensaver', of all things, that you can see faintly when looking at a dark picture or something dark. It's been there nearly a year since I turned that darn screensaver off. That seems different from the burn in I'm seeing on the panasonic which led me to my above question.


I HAVE THE SAME EXACT TV AND AFTER PLAYING UNO ON XBOX 360 for an HOUR, i shut off my xbox and noticed how the UNO screen still remanined on the tv. How can we tell if this is just JUST IR or burn-in. I went to bed and 8 hrs later turned on the tv without a signal and noticed that the UNO image was still there. Should I be concerned that this is burn-in or is it just IR?

I HAVE THE SAME EXACT TV AND AFTER PLAYING UNO ON XBOX 360 for an HOUR, i shut off my xbox and noticed how the UNO screen still remanined on the tv. How can we tell if this is just JUST IR or burn-in. I went to bed and 8 hrs later turned on the tv without a signal and noticed that the UNO image was still there. Should I be concerned that this is burn-in or is it just IR?Play other moving content on your tv and see if it disappears after an hour or two or as long as it takes. It should go away. With the tv off it will not excite the phosphors so any IR will not disappear.

Play other moving content on your tv and see if it disappears after an hour or two or as long as it takes. It should go away. With the tv off it will not excite the phosphors so any IR will not disappear.

what type of moving content?

I actually heard that you could use the SNOW IMAGE your tv displays when the cable is not plugged in to help take away IR or burn in. Has anyone else heard the same thing?

Anything with motion such as regular tv shows, dvd movies, etc. Anything that is not static (non-moving).

I have a newer Pioneer too. Didn't follow break in settings to much. No IR/Burn in. I play video games for hours (the same game for hours). No IR/Burn in. We watch movies, some widescreen with bars, we watch 2 hour shows with a logo. No IR/Burn in.

What I am saying this for is that it is a lot harder to get IR on these newer plasma sets. How long did you watch the NHL game? Was it near the beginning of the set when it was new?


I watched the all star game ( around 3 hours ) but was flipping channels in between breaks, so nothing was on there for a really long period. I was following break in settings.

I don't get it. I'm really dissipointed. I have had iceage playing for 15hrs straight and no change.

Amen!

Burn-in potential has been reduced so low by manufacturers that the word "burn-in" should be archived and no longer used. Only thing I can think of that should be able to use the word are companies, corporations, tv stations, airports, etc that keep the same image on the screen forever! People watching tv, playing video games, and using the PC on their tvs are not experiencing burn-in but instead image retention which will go away.

Image Retention - will go away over time
Burn In - will never go away and is very rare - unless you own a tv station or an airport

thanks for the reply. Still deciding if I'm going to keep it or not. the picture is great tho. the image retention (thanks for clarifying) doesn't bother me since I can't see it when there is a picture on screen, even if it's dark.

burn in may be rare but it happens. Like I said about the "screensaver" I had running on my dell lcd. It was on there everyday for about 3 months and that was all it took. now I have a "lego star wars" emblem permanantly burned in near the bottom of the screen.
so um...don't leave the same image on for 3 months :)

I watched the all star game ( around 3 hours ) but was flipping channels in between breaks, so nothing was on there for a really long period. I was following break in settings.

I don't get it. I'm really dissipointed. I have had iceage playing for 15hrs straight and no change.

3 Hours straight of one, bright image, on a non-broke in Plasma is probably what did it. Flipping the channel on commercials didn't help. Those cells where charged with that color for a long time, it would take at least that amount of time or more on a different channel to counter the effects. Going to another channel on commercial didn't help or didn't give those cells enough time to change. If the set was broke in for awhile, 3 hours wouldn't be a problem, but if this was in the beginning that is what did it.

I watched the all star game ( around 3 hours ) but was flipping channels in between breaks, so nothing was on there for a really long period. I was following break in settings.

I don't get it. I'm really dissipointed. I have had iceage playing for 15hrs straight and no change.

3 Hours straight of one, bright image, on a non-broke in Plasma is probably what did it. Flipping the channel on commercials didn't help. Those cells where charged with that color for a long time, it would take at least that amount of time or more on a different channel to counter the effects. Going to another channel on commercial didn't help or didn't give those cells enough time to change. If the set was broke in for awhile, 3 hours wouldn't be a problem, but if this was in the beginning that is what did it.

3 Hours straight of one, bright image, on a non-broke in Plasma is probably what did it. Flipping the channel on commercials didn't help. Those cells where charged with that color for a long time, it would take at least that amount of time or more on a different channel to counter the effects. Going to another channel on commercial didn't help or didn't give those cells enough time to change. If the set was broke in for awhile, 3 hours wouldn't be a problem, but if this was in the beginning that is what did it.


I can't believe that the TV would respond like that. All the settings were at break in levels and nothing else was changed. So is their any way of reparing it. I have heard many people place a static white image on the screen made in photoshop or a draw program and burn that image into the display.
I really don't want to do that But if that is what I have to do to remove the TSNHD image from my screen, then I will do so.

Any recomendations???

I can't believe that the TV would respond like that. All the settings were at break in levels and nothing else was changed. So is their any way of reparing it. I have heard many people place a static white image on the screen made in photoshop or a draw program and burn that image into the display.
I really don't want to do that But if that is what I have to do to remove the TSNHD image from my screen, then I will do so.

Any recomendations???

Full screen HD content for as long as you can (or I heard the break in DVD does good, but haven't used it myself).

Use the break in DVD, juice up your color/brightness/constrast (not necessarly max, but high), and run it full screen. Depending on what settings you watched the Allstar game, and how old your TV was (in hours viewed), you will have to run the break in DVD from anywhere from 15 hours to 150 hours.

It will NOT cure itself if you just leave it off for awhile. You MUST run SOMETHING.

It will become nearly invisible, but you'll need patience. You can watch anything you want while you do this curing, just run the break in DVD whenever your TV isn't being watched. Whatever you do watch, I'd use middle, or reduced settings. The break in DVD should be on high.

It took me about 300 hours of mixed viewing/break in DVD to remove my N3 IR (which is 95% gone.)

Can't believe some of you are all having problems. I've had my plasma for a week now and have been watching espn with the ticker, letterboxed movies, all kinds of stuff at 60% brightness and 75% contrast and not a hint of IR. And I have a cheap Sylvania EDTV!

Can't believe some of you are all having problems. I've had my plasma for a week now and have been watching espn with the ticker, letterboxed movies, all kinds of stuff at 60% brightness and 75% contrast and not a hint of IR. And I have a cheap Sylvania EDTV!
If that is in fact your watching habits of the panel for only a week you are going to be in for a rude awakening when you have the panel fully broke in and then BAM! you have the espn logo. Just b/c you don't see it right now doesn't mean it isn't there. Run a SOLID white screen to see if it is there yet. Remember, the panel is being broken in right now and is MOST vulnerable to IR as soon as it is broke in.

Remember, the panel is being broken in right now and is MOST vulnerable to IR as soon as it is broke in.Where did you get this info? From all the research I've done, it is just the opposite.

The set is MOST vulnerable to IR before it is broke in, within the first 100-200 hrs (some say even longer up to 1000 hrs). This is of course if you subscribe to the necessary break-in theory.

Jeff. ...that is EXACTLY what I just said. Not sure why you think otherwise. You are just not comprehending the semantics of my sentence. I stated that b/c he is in the break-in period he is most vulnerable to IR and he would see that result AS SOON AS IT IS BROKE IN.

I guess it was this "...is MOST vulnerable to IR as soon as it is broke in" that threw me. Sounds to me like you were saying it is most vulnerable to IR after (or "as soon as") it is broken in. Could probably have been worded differently, but thanks for clarifying.

Yeah, my wording sucks now that I re-read it. As long as we know now what I meant. Last thing I wanted to do was give bad info but I gotta run as my hook on phonics lesson is calling :)

Full screen HD content for as long as you can (or I heard the break in DVD does good, but haven't used it myself).

I have had it on full screen and plan to keep it on full.

Thanks for all your insight William.

Cheers.

Hello
I just recently purchased a Samsung HP-T4254 Plasma Television and I am only running the break in DVD for the first two hundred hours. I have read different methods of t.v settings for high contrast to low contrast. Currently my setting are
Contrast 40 out of 100
Brightness 10 out of 100
Sharpness 10 out of 100
Color 20 out of 100
Tint is 50 out of 100

In your knowledgeable opinions do these settings make sense and if not what would you recommended
I am moving out to my apartment on the 27th of April so I will run the break in DVD until then.

If that is in fact your watching habits of the panel for only a week you are going to be in for a rude awakening when you have the panel fully broke in and then BAM! you have the espn logo. Just b/c you don't see it right now doesn't mean it isn't there. Run a SOLID white screen to see if it is there yet. Remember, the panel is being broken in right now and is MOST vulnerable to IR as soon as it is broke in.
Riiiiiiight :rolleyes: This is laughable although I will check back in with you in a month to confirm I have no burn in. :p I've had it for 2 weeks now about 140 hours and no problems whatsoever.

Riiiiiiight :rolleyes: This is laughable although I will check back in with you in a month to confirm I have no burn in. :p I've had it for 2 weeks now about 140 hours and no problems whatsoever.
Take it as laughable or whatever you want. I really don't care. But if that is how you watch your tv for the beginning break-in hours then just be warned. It is not a brand thing but rather a technology thing. If you do keep your watching like that and then report back there is not a trace or IR then you are either (a) telling a fib about your watching habits and break-in habits; or (b) too damn embarrased to post that the IR has smacked you a good one.

Take it as laughable or whatever you want. I really don't care. But if that is how you watch your tv for the beginning break-in hours then just be warned. It is not a brand thing but rather a technology thing. If you do keep your watching like that and then report back there is not a trace or IR then you are either (a) telling a fib about your watching habits and break-in habits; or (b) too damn embarrased to post that the IR has smacked you a good one.
What's your deal? If this was true there would be a mass flood of consumers returning their plasmas to the stores. You know how many millions of people watch ESPN? Don't worry about me I will continue to watch tv as I like.

What's your deal? If this was true there would be a mass flood of consumers returning their plasmas to the stores. You know how many millions of people watch ESPN? Don't worry about me I will continue to watch tv as I like.


Watch it as you like but don't take everything so personal. Did somebody piss in your cheerios this morning? Let it go. If you don't want to believe that IR can happen to you then so be it--ignorance is bliss. Just don't come posting here in the future trying to figure out how to remedy it or what recourse you have the manufacturer.....not after the attitude you have shown here. It's easy to hide behind a keyboard and be mister toughguy.

Maybe you should read up on exactly what IR is and how is happens. All I said was that the watching habits you explained and the age of the set you are just asking for IR. Didn't say you have it nor wish it upon you, just explained what is the SCIENCE behind this technology.

What's your deal? If this was true there would be a mass flood of consumers returning their plasmas to the stores. You know how many millions of people watch ESPN? Don't worry about me I will continue to watch tv as I like. This should support a break in. "When phosphors are fresh, they burn more intensely as they are ignited. This means that relatively new plasma display TVs are prone to "ghosting", which occurs when on-screen images appear to stay on the screen belatedly. This is a function of the high intensity with which new phosphors "pop," and this phenomenon usually "washes out" on its own, as the screen displays subsequent images." "Our advice is to reduce the contrast setting to 50% or less for the first 200 hours of use. And, be sure to avail yourself of your plasma's anti-burn-in features. "
"http://www.*******************.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html

This should support a break in. "When phosphors are fresh, they burn more intensely as they are ignited. This means that relatively new plasma display TVs are prone to "ghosting", which occurs when on-screen images appear to stay on the screen belatedly. This is a function of the high intensity with which new phosphors "pop," and this phenomenon usually "washes out" on its own, as the screen displays subsequent images." "Our advice is to reduce the contrast setting to 50% or less for the first 200 hours of use. And, be sure to avail yourself of your plasma's anti-burn-in features. "
"http://www.*******************.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html
That's great, but I have no problems the way I'm using my set so I will continue to use it like I want and not obsess over the stupid burn in talk.

Watch it as you like but don't take everything so personal. Did somebody piss in your cheerios this morning? Let it go. If you don't want to believe that IR can happen to you then so be it--ignorance is bliss. Just don't come posting here in the future trying to figure out how to remedy it or what recourse you have the manufacturer.....not after the attitude you have shown here. It's easy to hide behind a keyboard and be mister toughguy.

Maybe you should read up on exactly what IR is and how is happens. All I said was that the watching habits you explained and the age of the set you are just asking for IR. Didn't say you have it nor wish it upon you, just explained what is the SCIENCE behind this technology.
I know all about it, and believe me I have done plenty of research before I bought a plasma. You seem to take pleasure in suggesting that I will ruin my tv, when I clearly have experienced no IR at all in over 2 weeks. If you don't believe that I've had no IR then honestly what do I care? I don't watch ESPN 24/7 but I watch it 3-5 hours a day and watch some movies with black bars it's really not a big deal. My set also has a pixel shift feature that moves the screen around every 10 minutes which I use. This whole IR, Burn-in thing is blown way out of proportion IMHO.

I know all about it, and believe me I have done plenty of research before I bought a plasma. You seem to take pleasure in suggesting that I will ruin my tv, when I clearly have experienced no IR at all in over 2 weeks. If you don't believe that I've had no IR then honestly what do I care? I don't watch ESPN 24/7 but I watch it 3-5 hours a day and watch some movies with black bars it's really not a big deal. My set also has a pixel shift feature that moves the screen around every 10 minutes which I use. This whole IR, Burn-in thing is blown way out of proportion IMHO.
As I have repeatedly said, I do not wish IR on anybody, yes including you. You really fail to read and understand what people are trying to tell you. It seems as though you enjoy being argumentative. If you did in fact do all the research you claim then you would know the difference b/t IR and burn-in. What I have been trying to tell you is that with your viewing habits you WILL have IR issues. 5 hours of ESPN a day (especially in the break-in period) is just a recipe for disappiontment in the future. It's not a qustion of if, but rather when. Listen, have fun, enjoy your set, and I sincerely hope you never have any issues. But ignoring what the pros and cons of this technology is just plain ignorant.

BTW, pixel shift doesn't move the ESPN logo 100 pixels up and 100 pixels over so that argument is lost.

Time to unsubscribe to this thread. Cheers.

This thread might help plasma owners, but it's certainly not going to help plasma market share.

I left the SXRD discussions due to a number of reasons, and for the first time seriously started considering plasma because the prices are finally becoming reasonable. And, I read that Panasonic had essentially eliminated burn-in.

Well, what've learned in 95 pages is that while burn-in is essentially gone, image retention is a troublesome feature of the plasma technology. Because I plan on not only watching DVR, but also heavily using my Vista Media Center and Xbox 360, I do not feel plasma is the right technology for me. There are just too many worries associated with any kind of viewing outside of standard full-screen television usage.

About every 10 posts, there is a "ray of hope" for people like me -- someone who says that they do anything they want on their plasmas, and have never seen burn-in or IR, ever. But 1/10th success rate isn't very good odds. It almost appears as though it's a lottery -- some plasmas somehow are much more resistant than others. Either that, or members of the IR camp or the no-IR camp are misleading us, intentionally or not.

Plasma has the best picture available today. And I was really looking forward to my 2007 1080p 58" Panasonic plasma in the next couple of months.

Now it appears that I'm going to have to go back to SXRD technology (where I can watch 4:3 OAR shows with black bars, play Xbox as much as I like, and enjoy the static "now playing" screens on Media Center for hours without butterflies in my stomach).

Back to the greed blob, sse, poor viewing angles, unnatural saturation of colors, and other problems inherent to SXRD technology. Worse, I'm going to have to wait until the fall for the XBR3s to come out, since I can't stand the dumbo ears on the current XBR2 set.

So, not only do I have to compromise, but I have to wait 6-10 months for the next generation SXRDs to come out. What a complete bummer. From multiple perspectives.

If IR truly isn't a big issue, then this thread is a huge disservice to people who have yet to buy their set. It clearly indicates that plasma is not appropriate technology for non-standard-TV/movie enjoyment.

I would just get the plasma Jon, I can only do some much to state that I have never had any burn in or IR problems on my "cheap" Sylvania plasma. If you are so worried why don't you just buy it from somewhere that has a 30 day return policy so you can try it out for yourself? If for some reason you get burn in (you won't) then just take it back.

Well, that's a good idea StinDaWg. However, retail prices for the new Panny 58" units are going to be astronomical vs. online. That's the rub.

Otherwise, you're right, the best thing to do is to try it myself to see how really bad it is for my usage. But, I don't think that's going to be practical because retailers have a 15% restocking fee and they're crazy-expensive near me.

For instance, the 58600U is sold retail here for $3900 while I can get it online for $2700. That's quite a difference -- and I want the new 1080p plasmas. Can you imagine how much they'll be retail?

Set your contrast and brightness higher for the first 200 hrs...you want to age the phosohers, the brighter they are the quicker they age, the lower the settings the longer it takes to break in the tv,,,,i run the break in dvd, but have my settings high...80 percent contrast and brightness.

Well, I have not had a problem with IR until recently when Guitar Hero2 was released for the 360. I have been trying to get rid of the score meter on the bottom left for around a week now. I can barely see it, but its there, and I can only see it on white or light colored scenes. The sad part is, I see it and I look for it. It really sucks because I love this tv (42" Samsung) and do does the wife. We purchased a Vizio LCD before this and had it for a few weeks and were really not happy with the PQ of it.

I have left all white on all night, test pattern on all night, and left Discovery HD and HDNet on all night and while it seems a little more faint, its still there.

My wife is now playing this game and really into it so its not like we can just stop playing it. Also it is not played for more than a few hours at a time.

I am just a little paranoid and upset about it. I don't think I want to settle for anything less than a plasma, of course I could go DLP and replace a bulb every few years and have new picture but who wants to mess with that?

I thought HDMI connection you can not adjust anything with this monitor. What did you use and how did you do it.

My wife is now playing this game and really into it so its not like we can just stop playing it. Also it is not played for more than a few hours at a time.

I am just a little paranoid and upset about it. I don't think I want to settle for anything less than a plasma, of course I could go DLP and replace a bulb every few years and have new picture but who wants to mess with that?

The paranoia will fade with time.

You can keep playing the game, just keep running overnight cycles of Discovery, White Patterns, or the break-in DVD to balance it out.

As long as you both are crazed about GH2, you'll probably have some faint IR. There's really no way getting around that until your panel has aged considerably. Just keep the overnight cycles going, they'll make it much easier for the Ir to fade for good once your GH2 craze is over.

you guys think i will have a problem watching NBA playoffs on tnt in HD(the score tracker) and i f i do get IR, how long do you think it will go away?

Edit:i bought my tv on feb.21 and it average viewing is at about 7-10 hours a day, for the first two months, i ran everything at 50 with contrast at 60, right now its at 70 with brightness at 45 sharpness 30

edit2:for some reason i get IR on whites but any other color is fine, it does go away shortly after some normal viewing however i wonder why it would do this, also it a Samsung PDP hp-s4353 set

I have a Panasonic TH50PH9UK and I love it but I do feel like I'm walking on eggs shells trying not to destroy it. I want to use it as my primary display for my PC. I like the large screen and I can watch TV in a PIP window and it is great I can get my work done, watch TV from my STB, watch DVD, etc.

I have setup a screen saver and I have cleared all the icons from the desktop (except recycle bin, which I frequently move around) I have my task bar set to auto hide to try to minimize the time it is on the screen. However, whatever windows application I'm using usually has menu bars and frames, status bars, etc that will remain static while I'm using the application.

What else can I do to minimize the chance of burn in (besides turn down the contrast and brightness), would transparency help, are there any programs, themes, etc that could vary the display (at a pixel level)?

Also, could someone explain to me how a breaking-in a plasma helps prevent burn-in. If burn-in is just uneven aging of pixels then it should always be possible? How much of a break-in period would be enough, I've heard from 100 hours all the way to 1000 hours? Is there a definitive, authoritative answer to this or is it just speculative and/or dependent on specific model, brand, etc?

Thanks
-Mark

I've been thinking about picking up the Hitachi P50H401 and I can't help but notice that no where does it mention anything that would prevent burn in. I'll be doing a fair amount of gaming on this set and now I'm wondering if I may have some burn in issues.

The paranoia will fade with time.

You can keep playing the game, just keep running overnight cycles of Discovery, White Patterns, or the break-in DVD to balance it out.

As long as you both are crazed about GH2, you'll probably have some faint IR. There's really no way getting around that until your panel has aged considerably. Just keep the overnight cycles going, they'll make it much easier for the Ir to fade for good once your GH2 craze is over.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. NEITHER of us wanted to return this for a sub standard (our standards for PQ that is) LCD. I checked the other night and we have 538 hrs on the set . This is since mid/late March. On another note, looks like my 360 is taking a crap and is going back for repairs, so this should give the tv a little break.

I'm considering buying a Pio 4270. I'm concerned about the burn in issue when I watch sports and they have the score at the top or bottom depending on your team.

I looked but did not find the answer here so I'm asking.

How long is the burn in period before I can stop changing channels during commercials ? Any secrets to preventing the burn in ?

THX from San Diego

ive had my 42" 9uk model for almost two weeks now. Ive played several games, but no more than an hour at a time, probably more like 30 to 40 minutes. I have been very careful about what is on the screen.

I did however watch de'javu with the black bars on the top and bottom last night. After watching the movie I switched to an unused input. I did still see the black bars. But only for a few seconds. Once I changed to a normal channel for a few minutes they were completely gone.

This did freak me out a little bit though. So I will continue to exercise caution for a few more weeks. I think im only at about 50 hrs right now. I will always stay on the defensive side with the plasma but hopefully after a couple hundred hours I can relax a little bit more.

Well, that's a good idea StinDaWg. However, retail prices for the new Panny 58" units are going to be astronomical vs. online. That's the rub.

Otherwise, you're right, the best thing to do is to try it myself to see how really bad it is for my usage. But, I don't think that's going to be practical because retailers have a 15% restocking fee and they're crazy-expensive near me.

For instance, the 58600U is sold retail here for $3900 while I can get it online for $2700. That's quite a difference -- and I want the new 1080p plasmas. Can you imagine how much they'll be retail?

There is a simple answer here that many miss; just buy the set at retail for whatever they charge and use it for 29 days. if you have any problems it goes back. if you DON'T have any problems, it goes back anyway and THEN you buy it from an online retailer at reduced cost. Obviously you need a retailer with no restocking fees and unconditional return policy (like BB or CC).

There is a simple answer here that many miss; just buy the set at retail for whatever they charge and use it for 29 days. if you have any problems it goes back. if you DON'T have any problems, it goes back anyway and THEN you buy it from an online retailer at reduced cost. Obviously you need a retailer with no restocking fees and unconditional return policy (like BB or CC).

All well and good. But I have an ethical issue with this approach. Sorry, I just do.

ive had my 42" 9uk model for almost two weeks now. Ive played several games, but no more than an hour at a time, probably more like 30 to 40 minutes. I have been very careful about what is on the screen.

I did however watch de'javu with the black bars on the top and bottom last night. After watching the movie I switched to an unused input. I did still see the black bars. But only for a few seconds. Once I changed to a normal channel for a few minutes they were completely gone.

This did freak me out a little bit though. So I will continue to exercise caution for a few more weeks. I think im only at about 50 hrs right now. I will always stay on the defensive side with the plasma but hopefully after a couple hundred hours I can relax a little bit more.

I've got over 2200 hours on my 600u and we also just watched Deja Vu and the black bars were still noticeable on my set as well. They don't last long but there doesn't seem to be much difference between 50 and 2200 hours...

I've got over 2200 hours on my 600u and we also just watched Deja Vu and the black bars were still noticeable on my set as well. They don't last long but there doesn't seem to be much difference between 50 and 2200 hours...

When you say "noticeable," can you define this? When watching normal TV? When looking at the screen 2" away on black or white? or what?

Thanks,

sorry, my set is wall mounted and I sit about 10-12 feet away from a 50" screen. we watched the movie at night so the room was completely dark. My wife (who is electronically challenged) even noticed what I was explaining "this is why we don't watch black bars". the tv was on the input for the DVD player but I had turned the DVD player off, so it was a blank black screen. you could clearly see the difference in "black" between where the movie had been on the screen and the black bars. after I put the tv back on the stb input and watched a few minutes of full screen material the lines went away.

..."this is why we don't watch black bars"
...and watched a few minutes of full screen material the lines went away.This is what I really don't understand. You (and others) don't want to watch material with black bars around it, even though you know the IR will go away.

Not trying to pick you out (you just happened to be the latest post I've seen here), and you may actually be ok with getting IR knowing it'll go away, but from the way you talk you are scared of IR....and it's not just you that is scared.

It really makes me wonder why people are so scared to watch movies, etc in it's given aspect ratio because they are so scared of getting IR!? Especially when there is an over-abundance of testimony here that it will go away.

sorry, my set is wall mounted and I sit about 10-12 feet away from a 50" screen. we watched the movie at night so the room was completely dark. My wife (who is electronically challenged) even noticed what I was explaining "this is why we don't watch black bars". the tv was on the input for the DVD player but I had turned the DVD player off, so it was a blank black screen. you could clearly see the difference in "black" between where the movie had been on the screen and the black bars. after I put the tv back on the stb input and watched a few minutes of full screen material the lines went away.

OK, I need to dig further. When you say that after a few minutes the lines went away... does that mean that for the first few minutes of watching normal TV that you saw a difference in brightness on the top and bottom of the screen? Or do you meant that if you went back to "black" you'd see them again?

I'm looking to see whether this IR phenomenon is something that is readily seen while watching content, or is it something that is technically there and easily seen but only when there is pure black or pure white being displayed.

Any additional info appreciated.
Thanks.

This is what I really don't understand. You (and others) don't want to watch material with black bars around it, even though you know the IR will go away.

Not trying to pick you out (you just happened to be the latest post I've seen here), and you may actually be ok with getting IR knowing it'll go away, but from the way you talk you are scared of IR....and it's not just you that is scared.

It really makes me wonder why people are so scared to watch movies, etc in it's given aspect ratio because they are so scared of getting IR!? Especially when there is an over-abundance of testimony here that it will go away.

I agree with you. I don't mind black bars every now and then, but one would have to think that if the majority of the time is spent watching material that doesn't fill the screen, there would be a much higher chance of "over-aging" said pixels. I had a scary incident back when I first got my TV with IR and it didn't go away immediately...so I try to be cautious but I'm past the phase where I stretch 2.40:1 movies to fill the screen.

OK, I need to dig further. When you say that after a few minutes the lines went away... does that mean that for the first few minutes of watching normal TV that you saw a difference in brightness on the top and bottom of the screen? Or do you meant that if you went back to "black" you'd see them again?

I'm looking to see whether this IR phenomenon is something that is readily seen while watching content, or is it something that is technically there and easily seen but only when there is pure black or pure white being displayed.

Any additional info appreciated.
Thanks.

It is not noticeable while watching normal TV. After watching 2.40:1 movies and then switching to watch TV after the movie I would normally switch back to the blank input to test the IR...that's how I can tell that it is gone. Just be smart about what you watch.

I made the mistake of watching the entire NBA draft last year. It lasted 5 hours and ESPN kept the "ON THE CLOCK" icons on the screen even during commercials. Needless to say I was not happy the next morning. Probably took about 4 or 5 hours to fully go away. This was back when I was around 100 hours though.

If you've got a burn-in problem with your plasma please post your:
1.) Manufacturer/Model Information
2.) General Viewing Habits (amount of SD/HD, DVD, Gaming...)
3.) Length of Time You Have Owned the TV
4.) Settings and Other Relevant Information... (Did you break it in? For How Long? Current Settings?)

** This information is solely useful for people who are debating on whether or not to purchase a plasma, what brands have more problems, and determine whether their viewing/gaming habits will cause damage*

This is a tough thread.

I keep leaning towards plasma for the picture quality, but my watching/viewing habits worry me. I'm buying a new TV after June 1st. Luckily, the first part of the thread that really worried me was apparently 4 years ago. :P

I'd like to play video games from time to time, such as Guitar hero, etc.

The NBA finals will be on during the 'break in' period, so I'm paranoid if I watch the whole game in that that period, it'll leave me with IR for quite some time.

Add to that a two year old who basically lives on Noggin and Disney when she watches TV (both have logos in the corner). I'm used to 'letterbox' watching with widescreen movies on my standard TV. Apparently that's an issue as well. (unless, the border is gone on a widescreen tv, I'll admit cluelessness on this)

I'm more than a little worried about it being a pain in the rear to go along with the much better picture.

Am I way off on this?

This is a tough thread.

I keep leaning towards plasma for the picture quality, but my watching/viewing habits worry me. I'm buying a new TV after June 1st. Luckily, the first part of the thread that really worried me was apparently 4 years ago. :P

I'd like to play video games from time to time, such as Guitar hero, etc.

The NBA finals will be on during the 'break in' period, so I'm paranoid if I watch the whole game in that that period, it'll leave me with IR for quite some time.

Add to that a two year old who basically lives on Noggin and Disney when she watches TV (both have logos in the corner). I'm used to 'letterbox' watching with widescreen movies on my standard TV. Apparently that's an issue as well. (unless, the border is gone on a widescreen tv, I'll admit cluelessness on this)

I'm more than a little worried about it being a pain in the rear to go along with the much better picture.

Am I way off on this?


You pretty much said it all in your post. Those are EXACTLY the same things I am worried about. I am a pretty big gamer to which has me even more worried about burn-in.

I have been wondering about an issue I'm having with my new Samsung 4254. A few days ago I noticed a black bar running along the right edge of the screen, and immediately thought it may be burn-in. The color on the tv was a bit darker within that area and when off, the bar was clearly more black than the rest of the TV. Soon though, I realized that it was just the shadow of the panel during the day that casts a darkness over this part of the screen. It is gone by night, so I felt more comfortable that it wasnt an issue with burn-in.

Yet, when I revisited my old 27" TV (regular tube tv), it had almost an identical bar running along the same right edge, only that it surely was burnt in as I noticed this problem at night! Keep in mind that when I bought the new TV I put it in the same location that the old one used to be.

Is my setup, with the light coming in and the tv casting a shadow, a potential to cause burn-in? It seems really odd, yet I cannot disregard the fact that my old tv has the same characteristics.

guys I just my PDP 5070...planning to watch in zoom mode with he dnice settings.....

also my programming for the time being will be SD from dish(using composite for now)....it might take some days fro HD programming .....

guys please advice....

guys I just my PDP 5070...planning to watch in zoom mode with he dnice settings.....

also my programming for the time being will be SD from dish(using composite for now)....it might take some days fro HD programming .....

guys please advice....What type of advice are you looking for?

Sheesh!!!!!!!!! Reading all these posts make me want to go and return the Panni 58PZ700U I just bought! You guys make it sound like for every hour I watch a TV or DVD movie, I should run the burn-in disc for 2-200 hours??? Just where in that time period do I get to ENJOY using it? So far as I know, there is no talk of breaking in in the manual, or on Panisonic's website (or Plasma Consierge) that I have seen so far.

This has almost become like the age old threads on how to break in a car's engine. In the old days, you HAD to go under a certain speed, and vary your speeds for from 500 - 1000 miles. Then you can drive it how you want. But then, there is the other side that say if you drive it like a granny, it will ALWAYS drive like a granny - but if you drive it like you stole it, you will have one killer of an engine. And of course, there is that brainwashing from Jiffy Lube - you MUST change your oil every 3000 miles - even if you run synthetic that is rated up to 15000 miles???

Well, looks like a call to the Panasonic Plasma Consierge team is in order to get the facts directly from the factory techs what is the scoop on this, or plan on returning it for the LCOS type, cause I don't care for DLP. :(

Sheesh!!!!!!!!! Reading all these posts make me want to go and return the Panni 58PZ700U I just bought! You guys make it sound like for every hour I watch a TV or DVD movie, I should run the burn-in disc for 2-200 hours??? Just where in that time period do I get to ENJOY using it? So far as I know, there is no talk of breaking in in the manual, or on Panisonic's website (or Plasma Consierge) that I have seen so far.

This has almost become like the age old threads on how to break in a car's engine. In the old days, you HAD to go under a certain speed, and vary your speeds for from 500 - 1000 miles. Then you can drive it how you want. But then, there is the other side that say if you drive it like a granny, it will ALWAYS drive like a granny - but if you drive it like you stole it, you will have one killer of an engine. And of course, there is that brainwashing from Jiffy Lube - you MUST change your oil every 3000 miles - even if you run synthetic that is rated up to 15000 miles???

Well, looks like a call to the Panasonic Plasma Consierge team is in order to get the facts directly from the factory techs what is the scoop on this, or plan on returning it for the LCOS type, cause I don't care for DLP. :(

Dont go the LCOs way, been there, didnt like the silk screen effect

Dont go the LCOs way, been there, didnt like the silk screen effectI got the 85PZ700U to replace my 1st gen (1080i) JVC HD-ILA not because it failed, or I did not like the picture quality (cause I really liked it a lot), but because I now have the PS3 with Blu-Ray, and want the 1080P picture. And now, with the new 1.80 firmware update on the PS3, even regular DVD looks AWESOME at 1080P on this Plasma. Perhaps its just I am not as picky? But this TV was the only one around in my area, and was on the showroom floor as a display model. Only been out there for a few days, but when I went to get it, they were showing an HD hockey game and the scores up top were a static display. Yet in the 10+ hours I have watched both DVD, BD, and LOST (in HD), I have not seen ANY burn in or after image yet on the screen. So at this moment, I am a very happy camper.

At least one good thing too - the guy at Circuit City said that if there were any problems, when a new one still in the box comes in, I could always exchange them (but would have to pay back the difference from it being the floor model discount). Can't beat THAT service!

I can give a pretty good description of what you might expect. I work at an image licensing company (sort of like stock photography but we do much more). We have about 20 42" plasma displays, various brands and ages, the latest being Dell, about 6 months old. None have ever displayed the same image for more than a couple of minutes and every single one has burn-in. The three newest had it within 3 days. We have sworn never to buy plasma again and would not even have gotten those had they not been thrown in as a perk by Dell for a large order of servers and desktops. We are absolutely going LCD from here on out.

I can give a pretty good description of what you might expect. I work at an image licensing company (sort of like stock photography but we do much more). We have about 20 42" plasma displays, various brands and ages, the latest being Dell, about 6 months old. None have ever displayed the same image for more than a couple of minutes and every single one has burn-in. The three newest had it within 3 days. We have sworn never to buy plasma again and would not even have gotten those had they not been thrown in as a perk by Dell for a large order of servers and desktops. We are absolutely going LCD from here on out.

Why try to scare people away from getting plasma with this illogical post. You give absolutely no information, aside from the fact you "loop" different images every couple of minutes. If that is the case, you will not have any BI on any of your 20 plasmas, if they are playing full screen content with no static images.

And for the people deciding to return pre-ordered plasma's because they are scared of BI and IR, I'd say you probably should return them or cancel the order. If you are going to be worrying about it 24/7, you won't be enjoying the tv, hence the tv isn't right for you. I can assure you though that if you just take some precautionary measures, just common sense for the most part, then you should never have to worry about BI. You may see some IR, but thats normal, and it should never be that bad. Give this thread a read, everything you need to be cautious about is described in it

On a more basic note: I've ordered a Pioneer 4270 and want to do right by it. I read the opening page of this thread and the last two months of postings.

I get that I should dial down contrast and brightness and fill the display with various images for some number of hours on up to 1K or so. I don't find an answer to what this "break-in DVD is." Do you dowload it somewhere or buy it at BB?

so if u have a plasma tv, and u can get radio stations via ur hd receiver, shouild u stay away cuz of burn in? i notice that the lettering doesn't change....it's the same text w/ station name, channel, etc.

On a more basic note: I've ordered a Pioneer 4270 and want to do right by it. I read the opening page of this thread and the last two months of postings.

I get that I should dial down contrast and brightness and fill the display with various images for some number of hours on up to 1K or so. I don't find an answer to what this "break-in DVD is." Do you dowload it somewhere or buy it at BB?Here: Download Break In DVD (SVCD) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583089).
For break in settings find your model # in this thread and use the settings in RED only when using the dvd. Otherwise use the settings in yellow: Official D-Nice Pioneer 6th/7th Generation Settings Thread!!!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731242)

so if u have a plasma tv, and u can get radio stations via ur hd receiver, shouild u stay away cuz of burn in? i notice that the lettering doesn't change....it's the same text w/ station name, channel, etc.Depends on how your HD box and TV work. Both my DTV box and my TV have settings that reduce the brightness when left on a channel for an extended period of time. My DTV box dims after 3 minutes or so, my TV can be set to do the same....so for me it is not an issue. Even if they didn't do this, I wouldn't worry about it too much because even if I listen to music for a few hours and I get some IR, I know it will go away easily. Try it and see...

when i play this disc, does it matter if its running through HDMI or Component through my DVD player?

also, do i need to set anything when playing or does this disc loop itself?

i plan on using the DVD version of this

Thanks for the break-in tips, Jeff. I don't think my DVD player is set up to play SVCD--I wonder why the creator chose that format? Plus I have an Apple computer, so it looks like I'll need to fuss a bit with formats or look to other routines (unless anyone can't point to a recent post that solves all these challenges).

David

when i play this disc, does it matter if its running through HDMI or Component through my DVD player?

also, do i need to set anything when playing or does this disc loop itself?

i plan on using the DVD version of thisDoes not matter what connection you use as long as the image fills the screen. I believe the disk is supposed to loop, but you need to watch your dvd player to make sure it works.

Thanks for the break-in tips, Jeff. I don't think my DVD player is set up to play SVCD--I wonder why the creator chose that format? Plus I have an Apple computer, so it looks like I'll need to fuss a bit with formats or look to other routines (unless anyone can't point to a recent post that solves all these challenges).

DavidDVD is also available, not just SVCD. There are others that have used Apple's - run a search of this thread (there is a button at the top right of this page) for "Apple" and you should find where others have discussed Apple in this thread.

This has almost become like the age old threads on how to break in a car's engine. In the old days, you HAD to go under a certain speed, and vary your speeds for from 500 - 1000 miles. Then you can drive it how you want. But then, there is the other side that say if you drive it like a granny, it will ALWAYS drive like a granny - but if you drive it like you stole it, you will have one killer of an engine. And of course, there is that brainwashing from Jiffy Lube - you MUST change your oil every 3000 miles - even if you run synthetic that is rated up to 15000 miles??? :p As far as I knew, they still recommend break-in on brakes and etc. I see something about it in my vehicles owners manual. I believe I have also read in vehicles manuals about the engine break-in and it does indeed talk about taking it easy. I remember them even mentioning the under 50Mph and varying your speed a bit at that. I never read this information from any internet forum thread. It was directly from the manual and the dealerships. :p

Anyhow, I don't mind doing some time with the burn-in disk. It has (2) potential benefits. First, if it does help on any future problem with IR or BI then great. Second, the store has a 30-day return policy and if the display is going to die for any reason then I'd rather have it do it within this period of time. It can't fail if you don't use it, so this gives me the opportunity to put some extra time on it than it would get with my typical use. I use it whenever I'm ready to watch something, so I'm not letting running the burn-in disk get in my way of enjoying it. :D

I've read this entire thread, but probably missed a few things, and come across others that are unclear to me.

I've been watching my new plasma for 10 hours approximately (probably less) watching various programming, ensuring what I'm watching only covers the entire screen. I also have the contrast and brightness turned waaay down.

I just downloaded the break-in DVD. Am I too late to use it for the next 100 or so hours?

Is there any harm to just run the DVD when I'm not watching TV, and to continue watching as I have on and off (while using the DVD in between) until the break-in period is finished?

Is there harm in leaving my plasma on for 100 consecutvie hours?

Yes, all these are covered in the "few things" you missed.

You can use the dvd whenever you want, you are not too late.

You can run it when you are not watching tv and keep your set on for 100+ hrs straight if you'd like. No need to turn the contrast down - turn it to where you would normally watch tv.

Thanks, I guess it's easy to miss a "few things" in nearly 3000 posts ;)

for the actual break-in? Would it not be better to set all colors to the same level so once you have broken-in the plasma your colors will still be the same relative difference to each other and the settings will still apply?

If say you turn up the reds and turn down green and then break it in, the green will age less and red will age more and hence the settings will be off again?

So, break-in via the downloaded break-in DVD on AVSForum with all settings set to 50 and the colors reset or break-in the plasma with the ideal settings already in place?

Yeah, setting all to 50 would be ok. It's better to calibrate it properly with DVE or AVI etc. to the level you will have it at when the break in is over.

But using 50 is fine as most of the settings will end up reasonably close to the 50% settings on most sets anyway (i.e. rare to end up at more than +/- 10 from the midway points in my experience).

It's better to calibrate it properly with DVE or AVI etc. to the level you will have it at when the break in is over. but why?
If say you turn up the reds and turn down green and then break it in, the green will age less and red will age more and hence the settings will be off again because now the green will be even stronger.

Ok, go with that theory. But after break it in you intend to adjust or calibrate, then continue to watch forever with the reds up and the greens down....what's the difference?

The settings won't be off much and the subpixels will always be aging - and I guarantee that each subpixel will not be aging at the same rate as all other subpixels.

However, I would just wait 'till after break in. I also would not say it is "better" to calibrate first - there isn't any research that determines that would be "better".

Remember, the reason for break in is to speed the aging process of the pixels to help resist IR. If one color (subpixel) takes longer to age, it shouldn't be an issue of any significance.

but why?
If say you turn up the reds and turn down green and then break it in, the green will age less and red will age more and hence the settings will be off again because now the green will be even stronger.

Well then leave the color alone, and just calibrate the contrast and brightness to the proper levels.

After the break-in period, do you have to recalibrate or will the settings remain the same as before the break-in?

I know the recommended settings for the set I am about to purchase. I just want to make sure that breaking it in is done properly and I will be able to use the calibrated settings needed for this TV.
Should breaking it in the "wrong way" result in a new calibration being needed then I am in trouble.

The settings will remain the same, but that doesn't mean the image will look the same. As I said, if you plan to calibrate with a disk I'd do it after break in. Use the recommended settings during break in - or you can calibrate it with a disk, but you may want to re-check it after the break in period.

There is no wrong way here - try not to stress it. Want to know the truth - you don't even need to break it in - it's only a precaution and most who do break in do so to have peace of mind.

The settings will remain the same, but that doesn't mean the image will look the same. As I said, if you plan to calibrate with a disk I'd do it after break in. Use the recommended settings during break in - or you can calibrate it with a disk, but you may want to re-check it after the break in period.

With recommended settings you mean the calibrated ones. So use the recommended/Calibrated settings from e.g. CNET to meet D65 etc. and use these same settings during and after break-in. Hence, set it once and leave it at the correct settings. Maybe check after a few hundred hours with the naked eye whether one setting or another is way off. Correct?

Yep, that'll be just fine.

Hello.

I am from Europe and I need your help for the Break-In DVD. I just burned it on a DVD. The DVD has runtime of approx. 44Min. Now I read in that forum that the DVD will run hours! Have I made a mistake? How do I burn it, that the runtime will be 24 hours?

I have a Samsung PS50Q91, this have to be in USA the HP-5064!

I have a problem with green shadows! That green shadows are from gray to black. For example in the movie Men in Black 2 Timecode approx.21Min in the Diner who Will Smith is sitting there with a woman. In the womens face zou will see verz good that green shadows of the right side of the face.

Is that normal?

Is that normal?

I will give aou an Link for an Picture...

I need 5 post to give here in that forum a link

the last nonsense post

please look at that link to show my problem

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=k640cimg2004mh0.jpg

Be careful running the break-in DVD unattended. If your DVD player gets stuck on an all red screen for several hours, it would not be a good thing.


that's not the worst though..

just make a turquoise (255 blue, and 255 green) slide for your tele.

Then just guesstimate how long the red was on for... you can do with with any colour.



i'd consider whomever that happened to lucky...at least it wasn't a menu screen or something...

please look at that link to show my problem

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=k640cimg2004mh0.jpg

check your contrast and brightness...its weird. Its almost as if your blacks are too black. Is this the only dvd it does it on? Does it do this with any other material?

I really hate (this might be your case) how some dvd's (or any medium) is mastered out of spec...just horrible

What kind of dvd player are you feeding...does it do this on all sources?

-jl

@ jlcool,

thank you for answering.

It is at every DVD film, my dvd player is a Samsung HD-870 na my Picture settings are:

Kontrast: 69
Brightness: 48-52
Colour: cold1

optimal contrast: low
black level: off

According to Panny and Sammy breaking in plasma's is no longer necessary. Thoughts on this?

Hello again.

One more question.

What are the differences about the "burn In" with DVDs, TV, etc. and the "Break In DVD"???

Why it is better to "burn In" the plasma with the "Break In DVD"?

And what are the best piscture settings for the "Break In DVD"?
Kontrast: 45, Brightness: 45... under 50%? Or should I take my favourite pisture settings contrast 69; Brightness52 for the "Break In DVD"

I'm in the market for a new set (seriously considering a 50" Panasonic plasma; haven't decided between 720p or 1080p, but that's for another thread).

A lot of the discussion on this thread has been the phenomenon of burn in related to watching SD programming in a 4:3 mode on a 16:9 display (resulting in side bars). The "smart" stretch modes on most sets don't bother me, so I don't think that will be an issue. I would, however, get worked about having to watch 2.35:1 DVDs in something other than the intended aspect ratio. I assume that watching 2:35 programming on a 16:9 display could have the same burn in issue as with the 4:3 programming (just that the bars are at the top and bottom instead of the sides)?

Even if I watched one 2.35:1 DVD every day (which is unlikely...probably one or two per week), would it even be an issue on a properly calibrated and broken-in plasma?

Thanks.

I'm in the market for a new set (seriously considering a 50" Panasonic plasma; haven't decided between 720p or 1080p, but that's for another thread).

A lot of the discussion on this thread has been the phenomenon of burn in related to watching SD programming in a 4:3 mode on a 16:9 display (resulting in side bars). The "smart" stretch modes on most sets don't bother me, so I don't think that will be an issue. I would, however, get worked about having to watch 2.35:1 DVDs in something other than the intended aspect ratio. I assume that watching 2:35 programming on a 16:9 display could have the same burn in issue as with the 4:3 programming (just that the bars are at the top and bottom instead of the sides)?

Even if I watched one 2.35:1 DVD every day (which is unlikely...probably one or two per week), would it even be an issue on a properly calibrated and broken-in plasma?

Thanks.
With the viewing habits you have, You won't have any problem. Maybe a little IR until the panel has been fully broke in.

According to Panny and Sammy breaking in plasma's is no longer necessary. Thoughts on this?

old habits die hard.

With the viewing habits you have, You won't have any problem. Maybe a little IR until the panel has been fully broke in.

I was about to ask the same thing. How much would I have to watch either 4:3 programming or 2.35:1 DVDs for it to burn in. I definitely want to watch DVDs in their OAR and I would prefer not to stretch 4:3 stuff but I guess I could get used to it if I have to.

I was about to ask the same thing. How much would I have to watch either 4:3 programming or 2.35:1 DVDs for it to burn in. I definitely want to watch DVDs in their OAR and I would prefer not to stretch 4:3 stuff but I guess I could get used to it if I have to.
All you need to do is vary what you watch so your screen does not have black bars all the time. I don't know how long it would take to get burn in, but what is happening when bars are on the screen is the black area has no pixels activated, so that area has like new pixels, the area in the middle gets use and the pixels age, so when you fill the screen with picture you will see a more vivid picture in ares where black bars were.

I was about to ask the same thing. How much would I have to watch either 4:3 programming or 2.35:1 DVDs for it to burn in. I definitely want to watch DVDs in their OAR and I would prefer not to stretch 4:3 stuff but I guess I could get used to it if I have to.Does your TV have the option of using gray bars instead of black ones? If it does, using that should help fend off the burn-in. I'm not sure if the gray bars will display on the top and bottom for 2.35:1 DVDs, but it should definitely display on the left and right for 4:3 content.

about to start breaking in my new samsung FPT5084

simple question needs a very simple answer:

should I use a low, high, or normal contrast when burning in?

The first page of this thread says use a half contrast/brightness setting, but it was made years ago, and in newer threads I've seen people suggest using a slightly higher than normal (normal for viewing) setting for break in.

What's the scoop on NEW plasmas? High, low, mid, whatever?

Any other settings I should use/know about, this is my first plasma.

FYI...I just tried the Break-in DVD on my new Samsung BD-P1200 BlueRay player and it would not move from chapter to chapter. Once the blueray player reached the 59th second of any minute it would stop. I had to re-plugin my $70 DVD player to get it to play correctly.

when i turned on my plasma today(before i turn anythingelse on) the screen was still kinda black. I saw all the movies lists, channel logos and everything else that usually there. Is this burn in? i have a 50 inch panny

I searched the forum and couldn't find an answer to my question.... I have a Panny 42px75u. After Break-In, can I expect the PQ to improve? Specifically, do the brightness and sharpness levels of the panel improve over time?

I am breaking my samsung in which i bought today , just left Troy on repeat shuffle chapters, will do that every night for 2 weeks using different dvds, hopefully it will break in good then

Couldn't understand one thing. CRTs and plasmas use the same phosphors. Why no CRT TV needs any break in, or rarely ever has burn-ins? What's the difference?
That's what I've found on the Net:

"The longevity problem comes from the fact that the light-emitting efficiency of the phosphor coating decreases over time—that is, when a phosphor is stimulated by a photon, it releases less and less light. The problem is much worse in a plasma set than in a CRT because the plasma’s phosphors exist in a hostile environment; the electron beam in a CRT is much kinder to phosphors than are a plasma’s hot gases. In a plasma display, the contrast ratio—the difference between lit and unlit picture elements—drops quickly under normal use, as much as 50 percent in four to five years. At that point, the television image appears noticeably washed-out.

Manufacturers today claim 60 000 hours of use before the brightness falls by half (based on a few hundred hours of testing). Contrast, however, is more important than brightness. Recent tests by market research firm IDC, in Framingham, Mass., measured a 13 percent decline in the darkness of the black of a typical plasma television after four weeks of use; after five years of use, such a rapid decline could lead to blacks displaying as light grays".


So, it's only 1 to 5 years after all... Kind of disappointing.

I was able to access the Service Menu in my Vizio VP50 plasma. But I'm wondering -- is there some place in the Service Menu to find out how many hours of operation I have so far (for break-in purposes)? It sounds like other brands of plasmas do that, but can I find it on a Vizio?

Regarding the FPT5084 (which is in the mail!), I read in the FAQ online that there was no need to break in the TV. Does anybody want to refute this?

i love this tv im using it mainly for every thing gaming sport partys tv movies but this dvd that i have to download i dont think my dvd player supports it so is there anothere way to break in my plasma and if not how much for a dvd that supports it

Couldn't understand one thing. CRTs and plasmas use the same phosphors. Why no CRT TV needs any break in, or rarely ever has burn-ins? What's the difference?
That's what I've found on the Net:

"The longevity problem comes from the fact that the light-emitting efficiency of the phosphor coating decreases over time—that is, when a phosphor is stimulated by a photon, it releases less and less light. The problem is much worse in a plasma set than in a CRT because the plasma’s phosphors exist in a hostile environment; the electron beam in a CRT is much kinder to phosphors than are a plasma’s hot gases. In a plasma display, the contrast ratio—the difference between lit and unlit picture elements—drops quickly under normal use, as much as 50 percent in four to five years. At that point, the television image appears noticeably washed-out.

Manufacturers today claim 60 000 hours of use before the brightness falls by half (based on a few hundred hours of testing). Contrast, however, is more important than brightness. Recent tests by market research firm IDC, in Framingham, Mass., measured a 13 percent decline in the darkness of the black of a typical plasma television after four weeks of use; after five years of use, such a rapid decline could lead to blacks displaying as light grays".


So, it's only 1 to 5 years after all... Kind of disappointing.


Can you provide a link to said research?

I'd think the plasma community would go ape sh7t over a declaration that a plasma tv's shelf life is 1 to 5 years?!

Can you provide a link to said research?

I'd think the plasma community would go ape sh7t over a declaration that a plasma tv's shelf life is 1 to 5 years?! Here is a link to an IEEE article from Nov 06 that references that IDC report. http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/nov06/4697

My 42PX75U is scheduled for delivery tomorrow morning. I'm PUMPED!! I'm going to start breaking it in immediately and am wondering what settings I should use. I will be using the break-in CD.

Thanks,
Dave

Thanks for that link.

So basically, why would anyone buy a plasma then?

Damn I'm so confused!!!!

interesting read.. though there's always a question as to who funds this type of research.. I guess we need to be a little cynical/critical.

at the end of the day, I'd say most 'normal' people just get what looks good. I doubt they really truly care one way or another about the differences between LCOS/DLP and/or plasma/lcd etc etc...

the markets will continually decide

That's one example of critical thinking:

spectrum ieee org/jan07/4847 (sorry - cannot post urls yet - type dots instead of hiatuses).

After some further research I've found out that phosphors do not age in linear mode. Usually it takes from 100 to 300 hours untill it reaches stability and starts ageing more and more slowly.

is it acceptable to run the break in disk ,say 24 hours a day,for the first 4-5 days,to get the 100+ hours done.or is this a bad idea.

I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I don't think that's a good idea. Your TV can get very hot. The way I broke mine in was 10-hour sessions with two 2-hour breaks per day.

On Page 30 of the Samsung LCD model LNT4661F, it states that watching 4x3
tv longer than 2 hrs "may cause burn-in". Speaking to Samsung, they say
it is the black bars on each side of the 4x3 picture that burn-in.

Has anyone heard of this?

With normal cable channels, you still have a lot of 4x3 programming.

Hello, I have been reading posts for a while and needed to chime in on something. I not an expert on the subject, but I have some observations. I work for a major electronic retail chain and we have plasmas and lcds and lcos (SXRD) and DLP tvs. We have had plasmas on the wall for years and play sports, espn, SD programming HD programming, some looped feeds, others off a Sat. We never change on behavior on what we watch and could care less about sports tickers or logos on screen or anything else for that matter. We don't calibrate the tvs or change the settings unless customers want to see them. we take from the box to display and in over a year and a half I have seen burn in on one plasma out of the hundred or so we have displayed in this time span, and have seen more stuck pixels on the lcds we have displayed. I just think that burn-in has lessened with the newer plasma technology that has come out compaired to that of a few years ago. I think what freaks people out is the image retention that might occur no and then that freaks people out into thinking that they might get burn in.

Sorry for the long post, if you have any uestions about tvs feel free to ask.

On Page 30 of the Samsung LCD model LNT4661F, it states that watching 4x3
tv longer than 2 hrs "may cause burn-in". Speaking to Samsung, they say
it is the black bars on each side of the 4x3 picture that burn-in.

Has anyone heard of this?

With normal cable channels, you still have a lot of 4x3 programming.Hmmm...I didn't think LCDs were susceptible to burn-in. If this were a plasma, then black bars wouldn't cause burn-in, because they wouldn't be displaying anything on them. What could occur with a lot of time spent watching with black bars is that the middle portion of the screen would age more than the sides. This might cause the sides of the screen to appear brighter than the rest of the screen.

A technique that was recommended to me was to display an 80 IRE full screen field overnight. So, on my video essentials disc, I found a 75 IRE full screen field and I am playing it. Do you think this is a good idea for break in? It fills the whole screen with this solid 75 ire white field.

Stefan

just outta curiosity...what happens if you don't break-in your plasma?

i've heard everything from... i risk having motion blur in the future, to... burn-in.. to.. poeple telling me not to bother breaking it in at all..

the general consensus seems to be break-in is a must...

i broke mine in...but i was just under 200 hrs by the time i started to turn my contrast levels up

Noticed that most Blu Ray/HD-DVD movies still display black bars.

Any recommended Blu Ray content out there that fills up the whole 16:9 screen for use during the break in period?

Thanks.

Is turning down the contrast and brightness for the initial break in only, or for the lifetime of the display itself?

When I watch crank on my tv I don't remember seeing any bars.

Noticed that most Blu Ray/HD-DVD movies still display black bars.

Any recommended Blu Ray content out there that fills up the whole 16:9 screen for use during the break in period?

Thanks.

They display black bars because they still aren't exactly the dimensions of the 16:9 screen. most movies aspect ratio is 2.35:1 while our new tvs are 1.78:1. So, for most movies there will be black bars, but they will take up a smaller percentage of the screen than they did on an old tube tv because the aspect ratios of the HD screen and movie content are more similar.

Is turning down the contrast and brightness for the initial break in only, or for the lifetime of the display itself?

just low contrast/brightness during your 100-200hr break-in period

Is turning down the contrast and brightness for the initial break in only, or for the lifetime of the display itself?

Don't think brightness matters much, just turn down the contrast. For example, if you watch something in aspect ratio 2.35:1, black bars are the part of the picture. When you crank up brightness, those bars become brighter too, so the possibility of uneven ageing of the phosphors doesn't increase a bit. But when you turn up a contrast, black bars become darker and the rest of the screen brighter, so the central part wears off more rapidly than the areas covered by black bars.

Don't think brightness matters much, just turn down the contrast. For example, if you watch something in aspect ratio 2.35:1, black bars are the part of the picture. When you crank up brightness, those bars become brighter too, so the possibility of uneven ageing of the phosphors doesn't increase a bit. But when you turn up a contrast, black bars become darker and the rest of the screen brighter, so the central part wears off more rapidly than the areas covered by black bars.

NO. You want to turn down BOTH....

Zero out Contrast (picture) and Brightness.

The idea is to gently excite the phosphors, brightness directly affects the amount the phosphors are being excited.

YOU DON"T WANT ANY BLACK BARS if you can avoid them during the intial 100-200 hours. That means zoom in on movies so there are no bars on top/bottom. That means wide/just/zoom regular TV so there are no side bars. The idea being to evenly excit the panel's phosphors.
Some will say that's extreeme. That just watch what-ever and keep settings down. Others say no need to even turn things down, just enjoy the TV.
That's a personal choice, that I decided was in favor of being extra cautious for the first week. Big deal over the lifetime of the panel.
Another option is to watch what-ever on any settings and in native view, then, when not watching, switch to HD or other screen filling source and let that run at zero settings to even out everything.

Again, if you are trying to gently awaken the new phosphors, turn down both picture AND brightness.

NO. You want to turn down BOTH....

Zero out Contrast (picture) and Brightness.

The idea is to gently excite the phosphors, brightness directly affects the amount the phosphors are being excited.

YOU DON"T WANT ANY BLACK BARS if you can avoid them during the intial 100-200 hours. That means zoom in on movies so there are no bars on top/bottom. That means wide/just/zoom regular TV so there are no side bars. The idea being to evenly excit the panel's phosphors.
Some will say that's extreeme. That just watch what-ever and keep settings down. Others say no need to even turn things down, just enjoy the TV.
That's a personal choice, that I decided was in favor of being extra cautious for the first week. Big deal over the lifetime of the panel.
Another option is to watch what-ever on any settings and in native view, then, when not watching, switch to HD or other screen filling source and let that run at zero settings to even out everything.

Again, if you are trying to gently awaken the new phosphors, turn down both picture AND brightness.

The key word in a problem of burn-in is UNEVEN ageing of the phosphors. Contrast makes blacks blacker and the whites whiter, so high contrast should be avoided, at least for a while. Brightnes, on the other hand, makes blacks brighter, as well as whites, so there's no increasing of uneven-ness here. But sure thing, the more you turn up the brightness, the faster your TV's phosphors age, all of them. Which means that even with brightness one should be reasonable.

The key word in a problem of burn-in is UNEVEN ageing of the phosphors. Contrast makes blacks blacker and the whites whiter, so high contrast should be avoided, at least for a while. Brightnes, on the other hand, makes blacks brighter, as well as whites, so there's no increasing of uneven-ness here. But sure thing, the more you turn up the brightness, the faster your TV's phosphors age, all of them. Which means that even with brightness one should be reasonable.

I agree with you that exciting all the phosphors as evenly as possible is the best method to avoid burn-in. And thus, what you say is true.

But the idea of break-in isn't only about avoiding burn-in. It's about treating the phosphors nicely, when they are most likely to have lasting damage, and to hopefully extend the overall life of the panel's phosphors improving the long term performance. It follows that keeping both the brightness and contrast down during the first 100 - 200 hours of use will help them age gracefully.

The key word in a problem of burn-in is UNEVEN ageing of the phosphors. Contrast makes blacks blacker and the whites whiter, so high contrast should be avoided, at least for a while. Brightnes, on the other hand, makes blacks brighter, as well as whites, so there's no increasing of uneven-ness here. But sure thing, the more you turn up the brightness, the faster your TV's phosphors age, all of them. Which means that even with brightness one should be reasonable.

Actually, no.

What throws people off are the misnomers 'brightness' and 'contrast'. To
clarify things for yourself, think of brightness as 'Black level' and of
contrast as 'White level'. which is what they really are. Turning black
level up does not materially make whites brighter. Turning white level
up does not materially make blacks brighter.

The purpose of break in is to evenly excite the phosphors at low levels.
At a given white level setting, reducing black level increases contrast,
which is not what you want for break in.

The advice given earlier, to run break in at less than 50% contrast
setting is reasonable. But, I would leave the brightness setting as is.

-- Ron

Actually, no.

What throws people off are the misnomers 'brightness' and 'contrast'. To
clarify things for yourself, think of brightness as 'Black level' and of
contrast as 'White level'. which is what they really are. Turning black
level up does not materially make whites brighter. Turning white level
up does not materially make blacks brighter.

The purpose of break in is to evenly excite the phosphors at low levels.
At a given white level setting, reducing black level increases contrast,
which is not what you want for break in.

The advice given earlier, to run break in at less than 50% contrast
setting is reasonable. But, I would leave the brightness setting as is.

-- Ron

Ok, let's go to the basics, which is a good thing to do actually, because when the basics are covered, little space remains for misunderstanding :-)
What's brightness? Brightness is an intensity of the energy output of a visible light source. To put is simpler - it's an amount of light emitted by every pixel of the display, relatively to it's present state of excitement. Not that simpler, er? :-) Example then. Let's say we have a picture on a display. It has a logo of 30% of black on the background of, say, 70% of black. The difference of brightness (or the energy output) is 40%, which creates a slight possibility of developing burn-in over an extended period of time. Now, let's turn up brightness of the screen by 20%. What we'll have is a logo that is 10% black and a background that is 50% black. The difference is still 40%, the possibility of burn-in is the same, but a possibility of image retention (which is really an alltogether different thing) increases significantly.
What's contrast? It's the difference between the lightest and darkest areas on a display screen. The same situation: 30% logo and 70% background. Let's turn up contrast by 20% and we'll get a 20% of black logo and 80% of black backgroung. The difference is now 60% instead of 40, which dramatically increases the possibility of ineven ageing of phosphors, especially on a brand-new plasma (and a possibility of IR as well).
So, the point is - it's better to turn down the contrast during first 200 hours, and to keep brightness at reasonable levels, but if the image is too dark, there is no harm of increasing the level of brightness by 10-15%. And yes, the only reason of breaking in plasmas is to age fresh and fragile phosphors evenly and thus prevent burn-in. There's really no other reason IMHO.

And yes, the only reason of breaking in plasmas is to age fresh and fragile phosphors evenly and thus prevent burn-in. There's really no other reason IMHO.

See, that's were I don't agree with you. From what I've gathered over the last few months, here, and from many other sources of information: the benefits of a proper break-in is not limited to burn-in prevention. The even application if energy to the phosphors will help them to avoid burn-in during their most vulnerable stage (new). We all seem to agree here. What you seem to dismiss/ignore is that slow and even application of energy to the phosphors will cause them to (hopefully) age in a manner that will allow them to provide the best picture, for the longest amount of time. Thus, giving the best possible picture over time. An additional benefit in my opinion.

Hey guys, I've a quick question:
What would be worse for a plasma tv: watching a 2hr plus movie with black bars top/bottom or, watching lets say, a 3hrs football game with a couple of big logos?

See, that's were I don't agree with you. From what I've gathered over the last few months, here, and from many other sources of information: the benefits of a proper break-in is not limited to burn-in prevention. The even application if energy to the phosphors will help them to avoid burn-in during their most vulnerable stage (new). We all seem to agree here. What you seem to dismiss/ignore is that slow and even application of energy to the phosphors will cause them to (hopefully) age in a manner that will allow them to provide the best picture, for the longest amount of time. Thus, giving the best possible picture over time. An additional benefit in my opinion.

In fact, here I more than agree with you :-) Any person with some sense won't drive plasma in "torch mode", not during break-in period, nor aftewards. You want your screen to last longer, you should keep it as bright, as it's comfortable for the eyes, no more. I'm just trying to alleviate paranoia that prevents some people from enjoying their sets. Is it really necessary to watch movies that are so dark one cannot see any details, even just for a hundred hours? If the contrast is down, a little bit of additional brightnes won't do any harm. Those two parameters are closely connected. With low contrast one just wouldn't turn up brightness high enough to damage the phosphors, because the picture would be too washed up. That's why adjustments of these parameters usually start with contrast, and then the brightness is getting adjusted accordingly to the parameters of contrast.

Ok, let's go to the basics, which is a good thing to do actually, because when the basics are covered, little space remains for misunderstanding :-)
What's brightness? Brightness is an intensity of the energy output of a visible light source. To put is simpler - it's an amount of light emitted by every pixel of the display, relatively to it's present state of excitement. Not that simpler, er? :-) Example then. Let's say we have a picture on a display. It has a logo of 30% of black on the background of, say, 70% of black. The difference of brightness (or the energy output) is 40%, which creates a slight possibility of developing burn-in over an extended period of time. Now, let's turn up brightness of the screen by 20%. What we'll have is a logo that is 10% black and a background that is 50% black. The difference is still 40%, the possibility of burn-in is the same, but a possibility of image retention (which is really an alltogether different thing) increases significantly.

I recommend that you re-read my previous post. What you call
BRIGHTNESS does not increase brightness. It controls black
level. In your example, increasing BRIGHTNESS will increase light
output on the black background but not on the lighter logo.
Electronically, what BRIGHTNESS does is set black threshold.
'Brightness' is a misnomer. It's actually a black level control.


What's contrast? It's the difference between the lightest and darkest areas on a display screen.

Indirectly. CONTRAST affects the white areas of the picture and
not the dark ones. Electronically, it's a picture level control.
CONTRAST is a misnomer. It's actually a white level control.

The bottom line: Decreasing BRIGHTNESS increases contrast. Not
by much, but if your aim is to evenly wear the screen, it's
better to leave it alone for the break in duration. Just my $0.02.

-- Ron

BRIGHTNESS does not increase brightness. It controls black
level. In your example, increasing BRIGHTNESS will increase light
output on the black background but not on the lighter logo.
Electronically, what BRIGHTNESS does is set black threshold.
'Brightness' is a misnomer. It's actually a black level control.


Seems like examples do not work either sometimes. ;-) Well, if you did read what I had written you'd find that I said that brightness affects every pixel, including logo (What we'll have is a logo that is 10% black and a background that is 50% black.) So, from examples to pictures. Pic. 1 is a normal picture. Pic 2 is a picture with cranked up brightness - as you may see, black bars become lighter as well as light regions of picture. The difference between them remains more or less the same. Pic 3 is a cranked up contrast - black bars are very black, whites - very white. If we agree, that a main reason of burn-in is uneven ageing of phosphors, pic. 3 is much, much, more dangerous, because in these conditions the center of the screen will age much faster then the areas covered by black bars. The same is appliable to bright logos.

a few people have mentioned that recent findings state that best conditions for
breaking in a display are to have settings at normal (contrast levels).
could someone elaborate on this please
whats the theory behind that?
also where is best place to purchase avia calibration disk
thankyou for any response it is appreciated

Seems like examples do not work either sometimes. ;-) Well, if you did read what I had written you'd find that I said that brightness affects every pixel, including logo (What we'll have is a logo that is 10% black and a background that is 50% black.) So, from examples to pictures. Pic. 1 is a normal picture. Pic 2 is a picture with cranked up brightness - as you may see, black bars become lighter as well as light regions of picture. The difference between them remains more or less the same. Pic 3 is a cranked up contrast - black bars are very black, whites - very white. If we agree, that a main reason of burn-in is uneven ageing of phosphors, pic. 3 is much, much, more dangerous, because in these conditions the center of the screen will age much faster then the areas covered by black bars. The same is appliable to bright logos.

Well, I guess we are nearing violent agreement :). All
I was saying was that increasing BRIGHTNESS (actually,
black level), affects dark areas more than lighted areas.
You can see that clearly in your 2.jpg -- but please
compare to 1.jpg carefully (say, change in the dark
seat covers vs. change in the man's shirt).

-- Ron

anyone?

Well, I guess we are nearing violent agreement :). All
I was saying was that increasing BRIGHTNESS (actually,
black level), affects dark areas more than lighted areas.
You can see that clearly in your 2.jpg -- but please
compare to 1.jpg carefully (say, change in the dark
seat covers vs. change in the man's shirt).

-- Ron

Yeah, an agreement is nigh :) My eyes aren't so reliable, so instead I opened both pictures (1 & 2) in Photoshop and measured the levels of gray (K) on the shirt and on the seat covers, to be able to compare the gain of brightness. I've got:
K=37 - The color of the collar of the man's shirt in #1
K=5 - The color of the collar of the man's shirt in #2
K=92 - The color of the dark seat in #1
K=57 - The color of the dark seat in #2.

37-5=32,
92-57=35.
The difference in negligible and can be explained by erorrors in locating the same points in the different pictures. As we see, correlation's the same: turning up brightness affects both blacks and whites and in fact - every pixel on the screen. But even if it would affect dark areas more than lighted areas, as you say, it'd be one more reason to not to worry - dark areas become brighter, closer to the lighted, the phosphors age even more uniformely, burn-in becomes less possible.

Hey guys, I've a quick question:
What would be worse for a plasma tv: watching a 2hr plus movie with black bars top/bottom or, watching lets say, a 3hrs football game with a couple of big logos?

Burn-up-wise it would be the same - too short a time to develop it. Image retention-wise, logos are much worse, especially on new plasmas. If your plasma has 200+ hours on it, you shouldn't worry too much. If less - turn down contrast as much as it's still comfortable during a football game.

[......]
But even if [Brightness] would affect dark areas more than lighted areas, as you say, it'd be one
more reason to not to worry - dark areas become brighter, closer to the lighted, the phosphors
age even more uniformely, burn-in becomes less possible.

Yep, that's exactly what I was saying.

-- Ron

Is there any scientific evidence that suggests one should employ a 200 hour break-in period on a modern plasma display?

BTW, you might find the Panasonic CS rep's comments amusing. When asked how to avoid this happening, he suggested changing the channel every 10 - 15 minutes. Yeah, right.

What???

Is the TV manufacturer or the TV content provider responsible for burn-in?

Why do the TV stations and TV Show producers put up static images (logos, scrolling info bars, and other graphics) that will burn in any phosphor based TV? Aren't they aware of the problem?

How long does it take for IR or Burn-in to get bad? I'm looking at a new Panny but I'd estimate normal usage will be:

60% SD/HD content
30% Video games
10% DVD viewing

I'm sure with Halo3 coming out soon I'm going to have 2-4 hours a day during the week and 6-10 hour a day marathons on the weekends. Will this be a problem?

Blu Ray/HD DVD with 1.85:1 aspect ration will fill up the full screen of a HD plasma

Will popping in a DVD with a 1.85:1 aspect ratio...fill up the whole HD plasma sreen also?

Thanks again :)

I just bought a sanyo 50 inch plasma tv about two months ago. I noticed a few days ago that the "espn hd" logo was still in the lower right hand corner of the screen. i have done all suggested troubleshooting for this: i.e. white-washing, running full-screen colorful shows for a few hours, etc. the image has faded significantly; but i can still see that it is there. any more suggestions; if not i'm returning it this weekend; i was not a happy customer. also; i never watched a show on espn with that logo in the corner for more than a couple of hours. This just seems rather absurd to me. Thanks for any suggestions.

How long does it take for IR or Burn-in to get bad? I'm looking at a new Panny but I'd estimate normal usage will be:

60% SD/HD content
30% Video games
10% DVD viewing

I'm sure with Halo3 coming out soon I'm going to have 2-4 hours a day during the week and 6-10 hour a day marathons on the weekends. Will this be a problem?

I would think you are going to be okay if you do a proper breakin. Keep the settings down low for the first 100 - 200 hours (especially with the gaming). Also, if you can, turn down the level/increase transparancy of the HUD. If you put other content on the TV for a bit after each session, you should be fine.

I haven't been following this thread recently so I apologize if this is well known.

About 6 months ago I bought a used 32 inch Visio LCD TV from a friend and gave it to my wife's folks. They mostly watch SD cable channels so I set it up for standard TV and 4:3 mode.

Last night we were over there and I switched to an HD channel. I was amazed to see this vertical purple line right at the right hand edge of the 4:3 area. It was about 1 pixel wide in the center and several wide near the top. It was not visible in a bright white background nor in a black background. It was on the right hand side only.

Very strange.

If it were not for the fact it was second hand, I would be after Visio to fix it. Obviously a defective screen or electronics.

Blu Ray/HD DVD with 1.85:1 aspect ration will fill up the full screen of a HD plasma

Will popping in a DVD with a 1.85:1 aspect ratio...fill up the whole HD plasma sreen also?

Thanks again :)

yup...it'll fill the screen

Read about 40 pages of this thread. But cannot find the answer I'm looking for. I just sprung for the Samsung LN-T4681 LCD. Thing looked far and away the best LCD I have ever seen. I know Plamas take extra care for break-in period and prevention of burn in. However do the same rule apply to modern LCD. Supposedly this tv has a ridiculous contrast ratio of 500,000:1, 120Hz, smart LED tech. Do I need to be concerned about burn and breaking it in. I already dialed both Contrast and Brightness below 50 and took it out of Vivid mode. Anyone?

Thanks and happy viewing!:D

Brian

Do I need to be concerned about burn and breaking it in.
Brian

No.

Read about 40 pages of this thread. But cannot find the answer I'm looking for. I just sprung for the Samsung LN-T4681 LCD. Thing looked far and away the best LCD I have ever seen. I know Plamas take extra care for break-in period and prevention of burn in. However do the same rule apply to modern LCD. Supposedly this tv has a ridiculous contrast ratio of 500,000:1, 120Hz, smart LED tech. Do I need to be concerned about burn and breaking it in. I already dialed both Contrast and Brightness below 50 and took it out of Vivid mode. Anyone?

Thanks and happy viewing!:D

Brian

LCD TVs don't suffer from burn-in at all. The have entirely different set of problems, including stuck or dead pixels, but the levels of brightness and contrast do not cause neither of these. So don't worry and enjoy your set.

Last week Public TV presented "The War" in two hour sessions over five or more days and which had a lot of black and white images. I also have lots of old Laser Discs in black and white.

Any opinion as to whether watching b&w images for extended periods would contribute to plasma burn in.

Last week Public TV presented "The War" in two hour sessions over five or more days and which had a lot of black and white images. I also have lots of old Laser Discs in black and white.

Any opinion as to whether watching b&w images for extended periods would contribute to plasma burn in.

B&w would actually alleviate burn-in, if you are unfortunate enough to have it on your plasma :-) Seriously - there's no harm in watching black and white. Some people actually use analogue white noise (which is nothing more than random b&w pattern) to get rid of image retentions.

Correct, the "HD Theater" version only pops the logo up here and there and its very transparent.
I am not sure that is entirely correct. I have just watched the Jeff Corwin experience on Discovery HD Theater and the logo was there the whole time. I see it continously on Sunrise Earth as well.

Awesome thread - just spent awhile reading through.

A few posts back, there is a question / reply that LCD screens don't suffer from burn-in. That was my understanding after doing research for a recent purchase. I just bought a Samsung LN-T5265F LCD flat panel a few days ago. Inside the front cover of the Owner's Manual, though, is a big warning about burn in!

So what's the deal with this? Was I misinformed about burn-in issues on LCDs?

Thanks.

FYI, found another thread that seems to address my question.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=913043

Thanks.

Hello can somebody quickly give me specific break-in settings for a Panasonic TH-50PZ700U?:) Thanks

Hey guys, Ive been reading about burn-in for quite some time now and there's something i don't get:
Burn-in is basically uneven phosphor wear, right? So lets say i watch an static image for 60 straight hours ( just to say any hipotetical number), now that seems like a lot of time and would make most plasma owners cry just to think about it (I know I would); but when you think about it, 60 hours out of the 60000 hrs of the panels lifespan its practically nothing! its less than .1% of the total time, so would this cause burn-in? and if so, why?? i mean, if the panels life was only a thousand hours it would make more sense to me that such amount of time would have a bigger effect on the wear of the TV... but 60 hours out of 60,000??
I dont know if im making any sense or if im missing something, but I thought it doesnt hurt to ask!

Hey guys, Ive been reading about burn-in for quite some time now and there's something i don't get:
Burn-in is basically uneven phosphor wear, right? So lets say i watch an static image for 60 straight hours ( just to say any hipotetical number), now that seems like a lot of time and would make most plasma owners cry just to think about it (I know I would); but when you think about it, 60 hours out of the 60000 hrs of the panels lifespan its practically nothing! its less than .1% of the total time, so would this cause burn-in? and if so, why?? i mean, if the panels life was only a thousand hours it would make more sense to me that such amount of time would have a bigger effect on the wear of the TV... but 60 hours out of 60,000??
I dont know if im making any sense or if im missing something, but I thought it doesnt hurt to ask!

You are absolutely correct. For example, if you have a static image on for 60 hours of the first 100 hours of life on the TV, then yes the static image will be retained since it is 60% of the total usage. But as you panel continues to age assuming that you don't display that same static image, the phosphor wear will even out and the image retention will likely be gone. Once you get to 1000 or 2000 hours, that static image accounts for only 3-6% of the total usage which is well below the 15% maximum specified by the panasonic white paper.

Guys, first off, thanks to everyone on this site for helping decide what kind of tv to get, what brand is best, and how to maximize the picture in my purchase. This thread along with others has been EXTREMELY helpful.

I decided to go w the Pioneer 5010FD and just had it installed yesterday. Overnight I decided to run the break-in DVD that can be found on this site w D-Nice's settings. For those who are unfamiliar with it, the dvd consists of nothing more than one color being displayed on the tv, w the colors changing every 30-60 seconds. First color is white, 30 seconds later it goes to off-white, etc, and yes, it takes up the entire screen. Of course, I woke up this morning to find the screen lit up bright green and the dvd player frozen. It had been frozen there for 6 hours. Pretty happy about that.

Me being very much uneducated as to burn-in, I was panicking, but I turned the tv to discovery HD and the picture seemed to be just fine. I let it run on that for about an hour this a.m. before turning the whole thing off before leaving for the day. Two questions -

1) what, if any, damage have I done in the long run to my TV? Will it favor any colors now?

2) If I lose my mind and decide to run the dvd again on the same malfunctioning DVD player and the same result happens, do I risk burn-in? From the brief skimming of these posts it seems burn-in is caused by uneven wear on the tv, but w the frozen screen here, there is no-unevenness about it... so is there a burn-in risk associated with this?

thanks in advance for any posters help here. I've gone from enjoying my TV to being paranoid about breaking it in overnight!

Guys, first off, thanks to everyone on this site for helping decide what kind of tv to get, what brand is best, and how to maximize the picture in my purchase. This thread along with others has been EXTREMELY helpful.

I decided to go w the Pioneer 5010FD and just had it installed yesterday. Overnight I decided to run the break-in DVD that can be found on this site w D-Nice's settings. For those who are unfamiliar with it, the dvd consists of nothing more than one color being displayed on the tv, w the colors changing every 30-60 seconds. First color is white, 30 seconds later it goes to off-white, etc, and yes, it takes up the entire screen. Of course, I woke up this morning to find the screen lit up bright green and the dvd player frozen. It had been frozen there for 6 hours. Pretty happy about that.

Me being very much uneducated as to burn-in, I was panicking, but I turned the tv to discovery HD and the picture seemed to be just fine. I let it run on that for about an hour this a.m. before turning the whole thing off before leaving for the day. Two questions -

1) what, if any, damage have I done in the long run to my TV? Will it favor any colors now?

2) If I lose my mind and decide to run the dvd again on the same malfunctioning DVD player and the same result happens, do I risk burn-in? From the brief skimming of these posts it seems burn-in is caused by uneven wear on the tv, but w the frozen screen here, there is no-unevenness about it... so is there a burn-in risk associated with this?

thanks in advance for any posters help here. I've gone from enjoying my TV to being paranoid about breaking it in overnight!

well, at least the red was accross the whole screen... so all pixels were "stressed" uniformly... Probably not a big deal...

Tace13

Don't think ther'll be any damage. Too short a time. But really, there's no need of such methods of breaking plasmas nowadays. Just watch your TV in full-screen mode for a time being, say, 200 hours. Don't torture your fine TV (and yourself) - enjoy it.

I'm brand new to the forum and have been reading it for the past several hours. I am awaiting the delivery of my 4264 and I was wondering if instead of purchasing or downloading one of these "burn-in cd's" - would it be possible to have the set tuned to the Discovery Channel 24/7 until it reaches approximately 200 hours - would this prevent burn-in or have no effect?
Thanks!
Ron

Hey guys, Ive been reading about burn-in for quite some time now and there's something i don't get:
Burn-in is basically uneven phosphor wear, right? So lets say i watch an static image for 60 straight hours ( just to say any hipotetical number), now that seems like a lot of time and would make most plasma owners cry just to think about it (I know I would); but when you think about it, 60 hours out of the 60000 hrs of the panels lifespan its practically nothing! its less than .1% of the total time, so would this cause burn-in? and if so, why?? i mean, if the panels life was only a thousand hours it would make more sense to me that such amount of time would have a bigger effect on the wear of the TV... but 60 hours out of 60,000??
I dont know if im making any sense or if im missing something, but I thought it doesnt hurt to ask!Burn-in and Image retention are two very different causes that look similar in appearance. Image retention in Plasma displays is due to residual charge in cells that have been on for extended periods. To eliminate image retention you need to white-wash the screen for several hours (full white screen).

Burn-in is uneven wear of the phosphor and is considered physical damage to the phosphor material and in general cannot ever be repaired. Also, with newer plasma displays burn-in takes much longer than 60 hours.

I just brought home a Panasonic TH42PC77U to hang on my back patio just above the white intercom unit in the picture. The manual does not mention "break in"

OK guys/gals Im new here so please be kind.

I recently got my hands on a 50-inch Dell Plasma TV (Model W5001C) from my brother in-law. He had used it to display security camera video feeds and it has some horrible "burn-in" ( I will post photos when I get home). It was running 10-12 hrs a day five days a week for about 7 months straight. I have been searching the web for anything to try to fix the "burn in" or at least make it less noticable. I have tried leaving it on a "snowy" channel for several hours (8 to be exact) which helped some and I have tried Jscreenfix with no results at all. In the tvs setup menu there is a "Plasma Conditioning" option that displays a white screen but that had no effect as well.

Is there anything at all that I can do now? Should I try leaving the "snowy" channel on longer or am I completly SOL?

OK guys/gals Im new here so please be kind.

I recently got my hands on a 50-inch Dell Plasma TV (Model W5001C) from my brother in-law. He had used it to display security camera video feeds and it has some horrible "burn-in" ( I will post photos when I get home). It was running 10-12 hrs a day five days a week for about 7 months straight. I have been searching the web for anything to try to fix the "burn in" or at least make it less noticable. I have tried leaving it on a "snowy" channel for several hours (8 to be exact) which helped some and I have tried Jscreenfix with no results at all. In the tvs setup menu there is a "Plasma Conditioning" option that displays a white screen but that had no effect as well.

Is there anything at all that I can do now? Should I try leaving the "snowy" channel on longer or am I completly SOL?

It's worth a shot. If nothing else it will make a great outdoor set for bbq's.

Samsung has done some research on Plasma image ghosting in order to find the true cause. They have found the following:

Image Retention: Caused by residual wall charge left in a cell after discharge. The residual charge increases the discharge probability of the cell and reduces the discharge delay time resulting in a brighter luminance than normal. Image retention can be removed by short periods of white wash or normal program viewing. In other words it is easily removed.

Image Sticking: Caused by excessive sputtering of MgO onto the phosphor material and cell wall during excessive sustained discharge. It is usually characterized as having a slightly brighter ghost image on a dark screen and a slightly darker ghost image on a bright screen. This is a semi-permanent phenomenon. However, it has been found that a white wash of 100hours can completely resolve the image stick.

Burn-In As we all know is uneven-phosphor aging and is permanent. It is also the most difficult to achieve and therefore the most unlikely scenario.

Can someone post pictures of a burned in (or with major IR) plasma screen? Everyone worries about it, but I never see any hard evidence.

Hello newbie help please.
i tried to add to earlier post but no response.

I have had a pdp 4270 for about a year and a half.
Just got a toshiba A2 (walmart deal!!) hooked it up and watched the planet earth hddvd.

For the first time i noticed vertical lines especially in scenes where there is a confluent whitish background - like snow/ice. The middle of the screen seems yellowish and lateral portions bilaterally a little brighter.

Never saw this before but when i played around, the vertical bars seem to be corresponding to my COX CABLE CHANNEL GUIDE.
I am the main tv person in the house and the unit never stays on the channel guide for more than a few seconds.
Ive left it on for several hours (discoveryHD) with no fading of these lines.

Can anyone help please! Im planning a couple of flat panels for a new home and am getting a little skiddish if this burn in/ir is a problem.

DO i use a white wash? where do i find that. or try the burn in dvd.

I have seen similar posts but no real suggestions for this.
Please help im freaked out!!!

thanks in advance.

Hey guys lots of posts. New 5054 owner here. I have a few questions. Can I play any Xbox 360 games during the first 100 hours of use? Today I was breaking in the set and muted the screen, after an hour I noticed that the "mute" icon was on the screen, I unmuted it and can see some image retention where the mute icon was. I am running the scrolling screensaver now to further break in the set and hopefully remove the square where the mute button was (its very faint, only noticeable when looking for it).

Tomorrow I am supposed to have a buddy come over and play some 360 games but I am worried that it will result in more image retention/burn in. Should I hold off on 360 games until 100 hours of break in? Also did I damage the screen with the mute button or will the image fade?

Thanks for your help, I searched the forums for answers but these threads are huge!

Hey guys lots of posts. New 5054 owner here. I have a few questions. Can I play any Xbox 360 games during the first 100 hours of use? Today I was breaking in the set and muted the screen, after an hour I noticed that the "mute" icon was on the screen, I unmuted it and can see some image retention where the mute icon was. I am running the scrolling screensaver now to further break in the set and hopefully remove the square where the mute button was (its very faint, only noticeable when looking for it).

Tomorrow I am supposed to have a buddy come over and play some 360 games but I am worried that it will result in more image retention/burn in. Should I hold off on 360 games until 100 hours of break in? Also did I damage the screen with the mute button or will the image fade?

Thanks for your help, I searched the forums for answers but these threads are huge!

It would be safer yes.... I know I did... 100hours goes fast if you leave the TV on all night.../day with break-in dvd... I did 200+ to be safe.. Now I play my games without fretting it..

www.samsungplasmatvfaq.com for more info....

i've had a panny th50px75 for about 100 hours and didn't run the break-in dvd. Now, if I run it a few times for a few hours every now and then, will it help to even the phosphor aging from 4:3 and non-zoomed watching on the TV. Or is it going to make matter worse? Screen uniformity looks perfect to me, but I don't wanna take any risk since my family has a hard time pressing on the button to switch aspect ratios on the TV.

Bottom line, is it good to run the break-in dvd after the first 100 hours up to the next 200 hours?

Bump

still need a volunteer to start new thread

PM me [please]

Could someone please give me a link or just list the recommended BREAK-IN settings for my new 42" PX75U plasma?? I can't find them anywhere.

Thanks!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949107