Panasonic claims the TH-50PHD7UY has:

"A new Multi-facet Asymmetrical Configuration Hyper-pixel (MACH) panel features a bounded cell structure and new phosphor material that dramatically improves a panel’s service life to 60,000 hours*, boosts peak brightness by more than 10% (from prior models) and increases the resistance to static-image burn-in to the same level as CRT displays."

So if I buy this FP, leave it on it's default settings and watch a lot of 4:3 SD programs can I be confident burn-in will not occur for this display?

The new 7UY models claim to have solved the burn-in problem with a new blue phosphorus.

My question to current owners - are you now comfortable viewing SD material without stretching the aspect ratio? What about increasing the contrast and brightness settings?

Thanks.

Bought one at Good Guys in Fairfield, last week.
Absolutely stunning pictures.

You CAN get a universal wall mount from them for under $300.00. I would recommend sticking with the Sony's own, regardless of the cost.

Once installed on the wall, you can't get your hand in to make the connections you hadn't before you put the thing up on the wall. You also can't get your hand in to tighten the levers for tilting it up and down.

Subwoofer comes off when you remove the table top stand. It slides out, and all the electrical connections to it are removed as well since they are contact type.

With a universal mount, no way to install the subwoofer with the screen on to the wall. Haven't seen Sony's wall mounting kit. Maybe you can with that one, however it would definetely stick out 15 inches or so away from the wall.

No regrets, other than not having bought the Sony mounting kit.

TURK

The 7UY plasma displays are gorgeous and I would like to buy one. All that is holding me back is the prospect of screen burn. I am not a fan of just, zoom or stretch. It seems a poor compromise to spend $6k on a good display and then deliberately distort the picture because the display is too fragile. If the plasma is that succeptible to burn in, then I probably shouldn't be buying it.

I know that I will do a lot of windowbox viewing. I am willing to do some things to prevent screen burn such as ISF calibration + no pc or gaming use.. but I am not willing to "just" the picture or use grey bars. So... the question is am I likely to run into screen burn (don't buy the set), or will I probably be okay? (please, please, let this be the answer). The plasma manufacturers must have tested this issue to death. Has anyone heard any credible numbers? I am making some assumptions about my usage along these lines:

ISF calibrated current gen. plasma
Careful viewing for the first 100hrs
No gaming or PC use
3000 hours on time per year:
&nbsp&nbsp 500 hours with the screen saver on
&nbsp&nbsp 1700 hours (2/3) windowboxed 4:3, with black bars
&nbsp&nbsp 100 hours in letter box mode e.g DVD's >1.85:1 , with black bars
&nbsp&nbsp 700 hours in 16:9 mode, DVDs or HD



1. Has anyone heard or seen any credible test data regarding burn in?

2. Any guesses, WAG or otherwise as to how long a plasma might resist permanent burn with a lot of windowbox viewing?

3. Can I eliminate most of my risk from windowbox bar burn by running the plasma an equal number of hours with an inverse picture? (black 4:3 picture with white bars)?

I am getting close to pulling the trigger, and also was wondering about exact procedures to follow to prevent burn in. For example, my wife likes to watch cnn. How long can she watch it before changing the channel (assuming calibration with avia and waiting till after 300 hours to watch much of it)? 6 hours? 8 hours?
Mike

Is there a reason that some manufacturers do not provide some type of electronic assistance to reduce burn-in or retention? I have a toshiba that has the pixel orbitor, white screen and a negative screen. Looking at buying a new Pioneer pdp4340, which has nothing in the menu, and a sony kde42xs955 which has the orbitor and white screen. It's not so much out of concern as to being curious.

Originally posted by ired
So... the question is am I likely to run into screen burn (don't buy the set), or will I probably be okay? (please, please, let this be the answer). The plasma manufacturers must have tested this issue to death. Has anyone heard any credible numbers? I am making some assumptions about my usage along these lines:
Well, according to Techniwizard who I believe works for/with Panasonic so he's very credible, the 7UY burn-in was tested for 1000 (one thousand) hours with a checkerboard image. After that, the white area's of the checkerboard were 2.5% lower in brightness than the black area's.

I would say this could be applicable to 4:3 viewing - if you watched in 4:3 mode for 1000 hours straight, then there would be a 2.5% difference between where the black bars were, and where the picture was. How visible is 2.5%, good question. But yes, it's still susceptible.

Well, according to Techniwizard who I believe works for/with Panasonic so he's very credible, the 7UY burn-in was tested for 1000 (one thousand) hours with a checkerboard image. After that, the white area's of the checkerboard were 2.5% lower in brightness than the black area's.

Thank you, that info really helps. I am tentatively leaning towards buying the 7UY, with the expectation of having to run an inverse pattern screen for a few hours each night while I am sleeping to compensate for my windowbox usage. I set up some sample test patterns + made a DVD. 2.5% is readily apparent on contrasty screens, but disappears while watching most material. Based on some quick empirical testing, I cannot visually discern differences <0.5% at all, so I am thinking that I will be okay with this approach.

Great discussion on brun-in. I have just purchased a panny 42PWD7UY and like a typical plasma newbie, I've been very apprehensive about all the burn-in fears surrounding these types of displays. My viewing profile is around 75% DirecTivo SD material using the "Pannasonic Auto" mode of display set to Justified for maximum ellimination of both horizontal and vertical side-bars. Other 25% of use is dvd viewing in Full mode. My concern is about half of these that are in 2.35:1 (?) aspect ration and have the horizontal bars when displayed in Full mode.

I would like to get your feedback on using a combination of timer and screen saver functionality in order to minimize the risk of burn in. I've set the timer to power the unit on at 4AM for a period of 1 hour (power off at 5AM). Also set the white bar screen saver to come on 1 min after timer, and run for 58 mins to 1 min before power off. Would this be effective in reducing risk of burn-in? Would it damage the display? Or is it just over-kill acting only to add more hours to my plasma?

My concern is about half of these that are in 2.35:1 (?) aspect ration and have the horizontal bars when displayed in Full mode.

You're probably not going to have any problems. While you didn't mention how many hours you expected to use your plasma, you are only talking about 12.5% letterbox use. Assuming that you don't leave the brightness cranked up high, screen burn shouldn't be an issue. Panasonic is claiming near CRT resistance to burn in on the 7UY glass. I have watched letterbox dvds for years on a 36" CRT (75 - 125/yr), without any signs of burn. It's hard to find meaningful numbers, but it was quoted earlier in this thread that 1000hrs of continuous letterbox viewing might lead to around 2.5% brightness difference. Using the sweep bar is probably helpful. Panasonic is claiming 60,000 hrs, so an extra hour per day shouldn't be a concern.

Made you look...:)

Maybe not quite, but with more stable blue phosphors being developed all the time, this really is becoming a non-issue.



United States Patent Application 20040099844
Kind Code A1
Ravilisetty, Padmanabha Rao May 27, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stable blue phosphor for plasma display panel applications


Abstract
Small particle divalent europium activated alkaline earth halide aluminate phosphors are produced by thermal decomposition of respective oxides, carbonates and nitrates in presence of activated charcoal carbon by solid-state reaction. The phosphor of the present invention has the empirical formula: (AE.sub.1-xMgEu.sub.x)y.AHAl.sub.10O.sub.17 wherein AE is an alkaline earth metal, such as, Ba, Sr and Ca; wherein AH is an alkali metal halide wherein the halide is selected from the group consisting of: Cl and F; and wherein 0.01.ltoreq.x.ltoreq.0.1 and 0=y<0.1.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inventors: Ravilisetty, Padmanabha Rao; (Highland, NY)
Correspondence Name and Address: Paul D. Greeley, Esq.
Ohlandt, Greeley, Ruggiero & perle, L.L.P.
One Landmark Square,10th Floor
Stamford
CT
06901-2682
US


Assignee Name and Adress: Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.



Also, nice to see that they are working on these in upstate NY, at the former Plasmaco facility.

Proudly made in the USA.

I am also interested in Greywall's question. I have the Panny 42" 6UY. Do people recommend setting up the screen wiper to run on a timer? If so, how often and how long? What about using the wobbler? Peak limiter? Also, while were on the subject, does anyone use the AGC or the Auto Picture settings? Since my viewing is primarily DVDs I probably don't need to worry. But I would like to do some 4:3 viewing of old videotapes.

Hi all

Has anyone experienced any problems of image retention or burn-in while using this plasma. It uses the ALIS panel.

I have situation where we two different images from two different TV channels retained on the panel which cannot be removed or cleared, even using the screen refresh mode.

The unit is only three months and the client is really pissed off.

Any input would be appreciated.

Cheers

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

Post this question in the MASTER BURN-IN THREAD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444258) for more assistance. :) There is a good chance this thread will be merged in there.

-JR

Change your phone number. :) Nothing can fix it except possibly more use without static "logos" and such or let the "white screen" on for quite a while (if it has one). Why are they mad? Didn't they know this could happen if static images are left on the screen for long periods of time? Given the "boutique" brand, is it correct to assume you installed and calibrated it? I'm not trying to point any fingers, but burn in is usually due to a "mistake" or ignorance ("lack of "education") - at least for home use.

larry

I am looking at the 7UY and wondered if any of you are using a backup power supply with them. I have an APC 1500 (865w) that I am using with the 52" DLP TV I am returning, and wondering if any of you are using one.

Also I understand in reading all these threads that the 7UY is more burn resistant. Are most of you using a second TV for 4:3 material and watching channels like FOX/CNBC/QVC, that have either stationary images/logos or tickers?

Originally posted by Gordon McGlade
Hi all

I have situation where we two different images from two different TV channels retained on the panel which cannot be removed or cleared, even using the screen refresh mode.

The unit is only three months and the client is really pissed off.

Any input would be appreciated.


You may be able to fade your client's "burned in" logos if you make a DVD with the two logos. Invert the picture on a computer before recording the DVD. For example if the two logos in question are white, then you want to end up with a recording that is reversed, in this example black logos against a white screen. The reversed logo has to line up as closely as possible to the position of the burnt image onscreen for this to work. If the client can play this reversed static image as much as possible, the burn in should fade. If it took 200 hours to burn the image, then it may take almost as many hours to fade the burn. This has a reasonable chance of working, but no one can guarantee results.

A thought just occured to me and was curious to see what others think.

Plasmas lose their brightness over time. Modern ones are spec'ed at half brightless level of 60,000 hours. This leads people to think that there is little problem burn-in as this is a lot of hours.

Now, seems to me, as the set gets less bright, the consumer is liable to start to turn up the brightness to compensate. If my experience with my old CRT RPTV is any indication, this sharply accellerates the aging as you are driving the phosphor harder. The curve is liable to become more non-linear this way with light output loss accellerating as time goes by.

I don't know this for a fact but I suspect that the aging tests by manufacturers is based on constant drive of the Plasma, not an increasing one over time.

I don't want to alarm anyone here as even in my scenario, you are going to get 8 to 10 years of life before the set gets too dark, at least that was my experience with my CRT set. I am just interested to know if anyone had thought about this use scenario.

Amir

I always thought contrast was the "killer". Or is it both?

larry

Originally posted by amirm
I don't want to alarm anyone here as even in my scenario, you are going to get 8 to 10 years of life before the set gets too dark, at least that was my experience with my CRT set. I am just interested to know if anyone had thought about this use scenario.

Amir

Still a none issue and I believe that many current owners of these sets will be upgrading within that time frame anyway.

8 to 10 years is still quite a distance and, who knows at that point OLED my be the forefront.

With my current ISF settings of -20 brightness I don't believe that the display will significantly decay to the point of being totally useless...not in my time anyway. Even 30,000 til half brightness equates to 10.27 years at 8 hours a day...we average ~5 per day so not really concerned.

Just my .02

YMMV. ;)

I have had the P50 for almost three months. Been diligent in making sure that all SD was watched in stretch mode so I did not burn in the side bars, turned down the contrast and brightness so the unit didn't run so hot etc.

I turned on the white screen last night (I last had it on a month ago) to check for dead pixels and to generally clean the screen and to my horror saw the weather channel logo in the bottom right corner (faintly). Left the white screen on for a half hour, got better, but it is still there.

My wife tends to put the weather channel on during the day for an hour or so, but we are always watching other things, including dvd's, movies, sports which far outweigh the weather channel.

I turned on the screen this morning, and the faint image is still there. Should I run the white screen for a couple of hours, or through the night? Will this help, or will I be stressing the screen?

Any other suggestions.

Thanks, Mike

I had a similar situation with a Court TV logo on a Pioneer 503 but it eventually disappeared (it was ghosting; not burn-in)

Hopefully yours is just ghosting as well

The main thing is to avoid the weather channel for a while: running a white screen may speed the process but if it is ghosting it should clear itself up even without use of the white screen

For extreme situations, you can feed a white image (generated on a PC) of the logo to reverse the burn-in

Mark, Thanks for the advice. I was really upset last night seeing the logo. It is a very faint ghost of the logo which I can only see on the white sreen, or on the black screen if there is no input.

I ran the white screen this morning for another hour with no real effect.

I told my wife to try not the watch the weather channel for a while on the plasma and got the eye roll.

Mike

Mike,

I once had a similar experience with my P50, played too much Top Spin on my XBOX :cool:, that resulted in a visible ghost image of the games gauges.
I was really frightened and thought, ok that's it, I screwed it up. Even after extensive usage of the White Screen feature, the ghost remained. But to my salvation after 2 or 3 weeks it went away, so it just takes time and is most probably not a permanent burn in but a temporarily ghosting.
I think plasma screens in general are more sensitive to image ghosting in their first 200 hours or so, they become somewhat less sensitive after that period. At least on my P50 I've never had the same experience again (and now I don't pay any special attention regarding XBOX playing).

Relax and enjoy,
Markus

I told my wife to try not the watch the weather channel for a while on the plasma and got the eye roll.



depending on where the logo is located, it may be possible to use a stretch or wide screen mode to move the logo off the screen

How do you generate a white screen?

On the P50, in the menu section, other functions, white screen. Enable the white screen, and turn it off when you want. This tends to refresh the screen.

Thanks a bunch. I love my P50 but I turn it off when I am not watching it such as when I am listening to Channel 819.

I'm hoping it's just ghosting too.

I have a 43" pioneer. I was out for a three weeks and came back noticing ghosting (at the time I thought it was burn-in) in the screen from my brother using the display. I took a couple of days to finally wear off.

I didn't do anything like do a full screen mask, just watched shows normally and tried to ignore it and kept saying "oh well, what can you do now". But in a couple of days it disappeared. I still have not done a full white mask since if it was a burn-in and there's still a trace of it (on regular viewings), I sure don't see it now.

What do you guys (and dolls) use to clean your plasma screen? I have heard that you should never use Windex as it has ammonia in it. Is there a product out there just for use on a plasma? Where do I get it? Thanks alot.
Also, last week on the upper right part of my screen I noticed about 4 dead pixels in a row horizontally. However, it appeared just when I was watching ABC. Could it have been something in their transmission equipment causing this that made it appear to be dead pixels but it was something else. I have my while screen on and I don't see any dead pixels.

Hi math08
I hate to be such a dweeb but which brand is a P50? Thanks

Fujitsu P50XHA10US.

Actually I have the newer Fujitsu P50XHA30US

While I understand you guys love your plasmas, it's threads like this that convince me LCD is the right choice for me as a gamer and generally as someone who doesn't want to worry about damaging his set.

I hope you're able to get rid of the mark math08! By the sounds it should go away. Maybe running normal moving images on the set would clear things up faster than just the white screen?

I wonder how they would look side by side in a comparison test. I understand that it has 10 times more colors than the P50XHA10US but I am really happy with mine. I might move it upstairs and buy the P55XHA30US model for my home theater/entertainment room.

Originally posted by BobDobalina
While I understand you guys love your plasmas, it's threads like this that convince me LCD is the right choice for me as a gamer and generally as someone who doesn't want to worry about damaging his set.
Can't decide between the Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY and the Hitachi 50vx915 LCD. I am barely leaning towards the LCD (although not by much) for the very same reason as you. I realize that plasma burn-in is much less of an issue as it has been in the past (either because of technology improvements or just better awareness), but with an 11 year old who wants an XBOX plus watches some SD TV with station logos (Nick, Disney, etc.) I would be worrying about the plasma on a daily basis.

Michael

Hopefully this is just ghosting and not a problem. I am concerned that there is alot of watching of other that weather channel, and the ghost was there. My wife tells me that she did not have the set on more in total more than an hour a day. I know when they go to commercials there is no logo, and I know the my sons and daughters are watching 2-3 hours of other stuff every day.

That's why I was shocked when I turned on the white screen last night and was the logo as a faint ghost.

Hopefully this is not a problem because I am very pleased with the set, the PQ is outstanding.

regarding the LCD Vs Plasma issue; this is good reading from an article in the latest issue of The Perfect Vision from a review of the Sharp 37 written by Randy Tomlinson:


"Sharp, on its Web site, has a page dedicated to comparing LCD and plasma technologies. Since Sharp only makes LCD sets, you might expect some bias, but most of its information is right on target. Here are some of the points it makes, and some of my own (italicized) comments from personal experience.
Viewing Angles: LCD sets have 170-degree viewing angles while typical plasmas are 160 degrees. My experience is that the picture on LCD sets changes character (loses contrast, in particular) considerably as you move off axis, while the plasma picture does not.
Screen Sizes: Aquos LCD sets range from 13"–37" in size, while plasma displays aren’t produced in sizes smaller than 32". As I mentioned before, plasma sizes probably won’t shrink but LCD will definitely grow and probably improve as time goes on. In small sizes, they have little competition, and soon they’ll threaten the big boys.
Burn-in: LCDs aren’t prone to image burn-in, while plasmas can easily be damaged by static images. No question about this advantage. Many plasma owners have already learned the hard way that image burn-in is a very real problem, and one for which there is no repair and no warranty-coverage. Plasma sets often have all the inputs for being a computer monitor or game display, but using them that way is inviting disaster. Even the stock-market ticker is a potential threat.
Brightness: Sharp indicates that its LCD sets measure typically more than four times as bright as typical plasma sets. It doesn’t mention, however, the poor black levels of LCD sets, especially when compared to the Panasonic plasmas. And even a set that measures four times as bright doesn’t look anywhere near four times as bright with typical movies and TV programs.
Weight: LCD sets are said to be lighter, thinner, and more manageable, but their screens are also smaller. When LCD hits 42", we’ll have a level playing field for this comparison. They’ll still be lighter than plasmas, but both will be too big and heavy for one person to easily (and safely) wallmount. More important: Sharp builds “handles” into some of its sets’ rear covers for easy carrying—others don’t.
Product Life: Sharp claims 60,000 hours for its LCD panels while estimates for plasma panels typically run from 20,000 to 30,000 hours. But the real advantage for LCD is that the light source is a bulb, which can be replaced. Plasmas cannot be rejuvenated by a quick “recharge” of gas, as some uninformed salespeople have told their customers.
Power Consumption: LCDs consume half the power of plasma displays and comparably-sized CRT sets. Plasma sets do run hot, and some have noisy fans that can’t be turned off.
Altitude: LCDs aren’t affected by altitude, while plasma sets will often hum and buzz at altitudes above 6500 feet. If you’re up high, listen for buzzing at the dealer’s showroom or just opt for LCD.
Other differences I’ve noticed include:
• LCDs typically don’t track gray as well as plasmas and often have extreme color tint errors as they approach “black.” Plasmas can often be ISF-calibrated to near perfection, while many LCD sets must settle for calibrations with compromises. Few are calibrated well out of the box.
• LCDs have subjective resolution that only the best plasmas can approach. Once again, when screen sizes become identical, the playing field will be more level.
• LCDs have bright, vivid colors, but greens usually look even more unnatural than typical plasma greens. The latest Sharp seems to have negated this advantage.
• LCDs have always had a problem with slow response time, which results in the smearing of fast-moving objects. The latest models are much improved, but fast pans (in sporting events, for example) can give some people viewer fatigue after a while. The problem is very subtle, but it slowly eats away at you, particularly when you’ve identified it and know what to look for. One solution: Don’t look for it. RT"

Originally posted by markrubin
regarding the LCD Vs Plasma issue; this is good reading from an article in the latest issue of The Perfect Vision from a review of the Sharp 37 written by Randy Tomlinson...
Mark,

Are the comments you quoted specific to flat panel LCDs or do some of the issues listed also apply to LCD RPTVs?

Michael

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
Mark,

Are the comments you quoted specific to flat panel LCDs or do some of the issues listed also apply to LCD RPTVs?

Michael

The article referred to flat panels

"While I understand you guys love your plasmas, it's threads like this that convince me LCD is the right choice for me as a gamer and generally as someone who doesn't want to worry about damaging his set."

Bob, that's fine -- really.

I just want to note that there have been easily >1,000 people who've come through who bought plasmas.

The number who have reported any actual, permanent burn-in is -- I believe -- in the single digits.

Note that I'd recommend a serious gamer get an LCD anyway because serious gamers might use their display 30-40% for gaming and up until the newest plasmas (from Panasonic and perhaps Pioneer), I'd have said that's too high for a plasma. It might not be anymore, but I don't know yet.

As for the matter at hand, I suspect the "weather channel ratio" is actually fairly high. I don't know this, but the goal is not to "far outweigh" the weather channel, or fox news, or cnbc, but to keep any one of them comfortably in the 20%-or-less range.

Now, that said, I also doubt this is any kind of permanent burn in or source of worry. One potential option for the weather channel or any commonly watched static-image channel is to get a macro remote and create a special button for the channel that also lowers the contrast / brightness / overall picture mode for the display. The Pioneer commercial models have a very flat mode that I can't believe could easily be burned in my much of anything, for instance. It is not very good for watching real video, but adequate for watching weather or stock quotes.

Mark

One potential option for the weather channel or any commonly watched static-image channel is to get a macro remote and create a special button for the channel that also lowers the contrast / brightness / overall picture mode for the display. The Pioneer commercial models have a very flat mode that I can't believe could easily be burned in my much of anything, for instance. It is not very good for watching real video, but adequate for watching weather or stock quotes.



Excellent idea Mark- Thank you :)

Yet Mark, didn't you have an LCD with burn-in?

Mike, I'm betting you've got a ghosting issue too. With what sounds like conservative picture adjustments and not hours on end of the Weather Channel, hopefully you'll be fine in a few weeks. You might want to try the screen orbiter in the future to move the picture around a few pixels, but some here feel that doesn't solve the potential problem of burn-in either.

The other thing I did last night was activate the screen oribtor. I have standard shift based upon time.

I had the oribtor activated initially, but there some settings I didn't like so rather than go setting by setting, I reset to factory. I never reactivated the screen orbitor.

What I do is I turn on my plasma and HD Tivo and tune to the weather channel and then I turn off my plasma leaving the HDTivo on. After the 30 minute buffer is full I turn the plasma back on and fast forward to the part of the show that I want to see, the satellite image of the South. Then I watch and listen to what they say about the South and then I fast forward to the 3 Day Forecast and check that out and then I turn to Channel 819 (Classic Rock) and turn off the plasma and surf the internet or visit the AVS Forum.

Originally posted by rogo
"While I understand you guys love your plasmas, it's threads like this that convince me LCD is the right choice for me as a gamer and generally as someone who doesn't want to worry about damaging his set."

Bob, that's fine -- really.

I just want to note that there have been easily >1,000 people who've come through who bought plasmas.

The number who have reported any actual, permanent burn-in is -- I believe -- in the single digits.

I don't mean to start a debate as I know it's been covered :) but even if this ghosting isn't permanent, it's still bothering to me. If I spend $3,000 + for a display device and spend a few hours playing Links on my Xbox, I don't want to have to be seeing an image of the swing meter on my screen after I stop, even if it does go away after a few days.

Anyhow, so many people here say that burn in is not an issue at all with plasmas any more... and frankly that doesn't seem to be the case, even if it's only temporary burn in, or ghosting.

Originally posted by Ken Ross
Yet Mark, didn't you have an LCD with burn-in?

Mike, I'm betting you've got a ghosting issue too. With what sounds like conservative picture adjustments and not hours on end of the Weather Channel, hopefully you'll be fine in a few weeks. You might want to try the screen orbiter in the future to move the picture around a few pixels, but some here feel that doesn't solve the potential problem of burn-in either.

Hi Ken

yes I had an LCD with burn-in : SHARP REPLACED IT at no charge even though it was out of warranty; THAT is the difference-

name ONE plasma with burn-in that got replaced in/out of warranty

Screen orbiters do not do it afik: screen orbiters just wobble the screen burn

in Mike's case it is most likely ghosting

but this debate has taken a new turn...with the introduction of the 1920x1080 LCD's...

Mike,

Didn't see anyone ask you this but I take it your P50 is a 6UY, correct?

Originally posted by markrubin

but this debate has taken a new turn...with the introduction of the 1920x1080 LCD's...

If this is not a ringing endorsement of Direct View LCDs vis a vis plasma I don't know what is.

I for one still worry about plasma burn in. Even if I watch mostly HDTV, all commercials are still 4:3. I refuse to jump every time and stretch them. I don't want to find out that after 1 year I have a burnt-in 4:3 area on my screen.

I still may decide to get the 50" 7UY before I get an LCD (or SED), but this burn-in thing really bothers me. I just don't want to worry and spend time on burn-in prevention. Life's too short.

The one thing to keep in mind about 1920X1080 displays is that our HD sources are nowhere near that figure. We're lucky to get 1400X1080 at this point and probably for some time to come. Hopefully we'll get the higher resolutions at some point down the road.

Originally posted by LiquidCrystal
Mike,

Didn't see anyone ask you this but I take it your P50 is a 6UY, correct? As posted previously, P50 usually is a reference to Fujitsu.

Threads like this cause people like me to go looking for trouble! I'd been watching a lot of MSNBC on my 3 month old Panny 50PHD6UY during the days leading up to the election. Until recently I used to alternate between 'just' and 'zoom' when watching MSNBC in order to move that damned logo around. But doing that got old and I guess I got complacent. I had not noticed any burn-in/retention/ghosting/whateveryouwanttocallit from my normal viewing distance of about 13 feet, but tonight I decided to take a closer look (:rolleyes: ). Well, it's VERY faint but parts of the MSNBC logo (mostly the letters) are there- more noticeable with white screen than black. To be honest, I really don't care very much since I can only see it if I get within 3-4 feet of the screen, and the previous posts offer encouragement that it will disappear over time, but I will be severely limiting my watching of stations with non-transparent logos from now on! But it would be nice to check in a week or 2 and find that it's gone.

Originally posted by Ken Ross
The one thing to keep in mind about 1920X1080 displays is that our HD sources are nowhere near that figure. We're lucky to get 1400X1080 at this point and probably for some time to come. Hopefully we'll get the higher resolutions at some point down the road.

What is displayed at 1400x1080?

And you're right, there's little 1080p content now, but HD-DVD and Blu Ray are probably about two years away, and I for one tend to keep my sets at least 5 years. So if I can be ahead of the curve now, more the better :)

Generally the highest rez material we see today is the video from HD cameras. I beleive those generally will go out to about 1400 lines of horizontal resolution. As far as HD DVD and Blu Ray, it was my impression that even those will not be in the 1920 rez category and probably more akin to D-Theater.....but I could be wrong.

Here's probably a more important point to consider when thinking about the full 1920X1080 displays coming down the road. Aside from the absence of any software material at that resolution, if at this point most people can't see the difference between a 42" ED vs HD display at 8' or more (an even bigger difference than the HD plasma displays of today vs. what's coming), I believe we'll see the same issue of people simply not seeing the difference at typical viewing distances. Of course once we get to screen sizes of approximately 80" or more, I would believe that extra resolution WILL be obvious....assuming we have 1920X1080 high resolution material to display! Thus far we haven't even been close.

Originally posted by Ken Ross
Generally the highest rez material we see today is the video from HD cameras. I beleive those generally will go out to about 1400 lines of horizontal resolution. As far as HD DVD and Blu Ray, it was my impression that even those will not be in the 1920 rez category and probably more akin to D-Theater.....but I could be wrong.

All the testing that we have done with DVD Forum on HD-DVD have been at 1080p so the encoding will certainly be at 1920 lines. However, this does not say that the telecine transfer had that resolution. Clearly for computer generated content such as Shrek, one can expect the full resolution out of BD (blu-ray) or HD-DVD formats. And over time, telecine equipment will no doubt improve to produce closer to the full resolution of the formats.

Here is another consideration. With HD content encoded in 1080, staying in that resolution all the way to the display will mean better images even if the content doesn't have as much resolution. By avoiding a downsample in the display to lower resolution, one avoids the artifacts introduced in that step.

Amir

Rob, Sorry I got you looking. I was really surprised when I turned on the white screen and saw the weather channel logo. My wife agreed to keep off this channel for a while and I will post back if it goes away.

I do agree with you that this may only be a "white screen" issue. I don't see it during any programing,but I will be keeping a look out.

what I don't understand is how this image ghosted with not all that much viewing vs other content. I would never have expected to see the logo ghost with an hour a day of on/off viewing.

FWIW,

We have the 5uy Panny, we (me and the kids) play x-box (Halo) quite a bit. Average about 15 hours per week on a total of ~ 44 hours per week.

We also watch HD and SD ("just"). The display has been professionally ISF'ed and my "brightness" setting is set to -20 all other to 0.

We have no burn-in...I have experienced "image retention" and it did fade away. I will check the hours on it tonight to try and get some sort of bearing.

I just checked the hours:

WT 2786
PT 2676

Received this set April 2003, equates to roughly 141 hours per month, or 4.62 hours per day.

YMMV. ;)

math08, robandalex, what are your picture settings? I'm curious if you happen to have higher brightness/contrast, or if it's set low?


-JR

Originally posted by JuiceRocket
math08, robandalex, what are your picture settings? I'm curious if you happen to have higher brightness/contrast, or if it's set low?


-JR
Picture (contrast) -7
Brightness -1
Color -2

Wow, what a thread, just read it all. I have a few questions though:

1. Turn the contrast and brightness down low, how low? halfway? have it at 1/3?

2. It's been mentioned to allow the phosphors settled in evenly(?) the first 100-200 hours. So would it be a good idea to have the white screen on during the day (8 hrs) while we're at work.

Thanks for a super informative thread.

Wow, roger that robnalex. I knew that you'd posted to other threads about keeping your contrast down, so I knew it was low, but I wasn't sure if it was "lower" and not "low", if that makes any sense.

Your settings are lower than mine, and I've had my set sit on CNN for hours at a time with an issue. I wonder if it's simply a case by case, unit by unit thing.

vdmai, I turned most of my settings down mostly due to the DVE calibration disc and Rich Harkness's Steaming Rat settings thread. It just so happens the "lower" settings provide a more realistic image than the torch settings most units ship with. I think my picture and contrast came at 25, they're now both at 0.

-JR

Juice- I don't recall what display you have (mine is Panny 50PHD6UY) but I would assume that if I left CNN on for "hours at a time" I would get the same result. As I mentioned previously the image is VERY faint. I really have to get within 2-3 feet from the display and really look for it. I would never be able to see it beyond 5 feet, and since I sit 13 feet away I'm not really concerned. But I don't watch MSNBC anymore!

Does anyone know if the bars that appear on the sides with SDTV broadcasts in the DVI more cause plasma burn. Also while watching DVDs do the bars that appear on the top and bottom cause burns?

i have a pioneer 4340, ive played maybe 2 hours of ps2 over 2 weeks, never more than 30 minutes at a time. the screen is calibrated yet there seems to be burn in. Ive been running the tv all day trying to see if maybe it is temporary. it seems that a lot of it has gone away. Is this normal? how do you know if tis burn in?

It's only burn-in if it is permanent... sounds like it is disappearing, so it is probably just image retention.

2hrs of PS2 over 2 weeks should not do this unless the brightness is up way to high. Most plasma's come out of the box with the brightness cranked beyond what is needed. Check that and you should not have any problems.

-Lance

Greg,

Go out and buy a dvd called either Avia or DVE (Digital Video Essentials) they will help to get your set looking very good and out of "torch mode". As a bonus you may even like the PQ better.

Good Luck.

how long would it tke for imgae retention to disappear

This is a Dishnetwork-International digital channel. Its expected to be on 30% of the total TV time. Can this Channel's logo cause a burn-in on a latest EDTV plasma in JUST mode?

Note: Most of the time there are no black bars in programming, I just picked it to easily see the logo.

Thanks for any input.

Originally posted by gevorg
This is a Dishnetwork-International digital channel. Its expected to be on 30% of the total TV time. Can this Channel's logo cause a burn-in on a latest EDTV plasma in JUST mode?

Note: Most of the time there are no black bars in programming, I just picked it to easily see the logo.

Thanks for any input. My guess would be that because of the stark contrast between the white letters and black background that that logo would eventually burn in to some degree.

Hi--noob to the thread...anyway, on my plasma the things that I have seen to cause the most "damage" are the gray bars that my cable box uses for SD/4:3 content....it seems as if the line between the picture and the bounding bar burns in pretty bad...but this "line" is not visible when the actual bars are on the screen, only on an idle black screen...so far this has only had a ghosting effect, but it seems to make some pretty deep marks...my dumb cable box doesnt allow me to control the stretching of an image...on an SD channel, the only options are "zoom" and "normal" and on HD channels it has "zoom" "stretch" "normal"...any one else notice this?

I used DVE last night, and it helped a great deal. Learned a lot of stuff, too. Didn't care for the way the menu is set up (kind of confusing...) Things are much better with new settings... Looks more real and natural, yet still offers a decent "pop" of color to wow over (even moreso in Nemo and other animated films...)

The screensaver never came on and Shrek 2's motionless "Far Far Way Idol" selection screen was on the screen for a while, not the image is retained. Hope it goes away. Not sure why the screensave didn't come on...

How effective are the bright grey bars on the Consumer Panny at preventing uneven burnin?

The consumer Panny doesn't have a wobbler feature will the bright grey bars cause a line to develop where the 4:3 picture ends on the sides and the grey bars begin?

If I watch a 4:3 program (45 min.) but with black bars instead of grey, then afterwards send a black image to the screen and have that black image play for the same time but with the grey bars on would that have the same effect of watching the 4:3 program with the grey bars.

Is there any chance of uneven burnin with a transparent logo like NBC or CBS?

Thanks all.

How often should I use the screensaver and for how long?
Just got the new TH-42PHD7UY. I have HD Directv tivo and DVD connected via component. Normal use. How often should I use the screensaver? Which one? How long should I use it for each time? Any advise appreciated.

Thanks.

I've had my 50" Panny since August 2001. I did a calibration using the Avia disc when I installed it. I've been reasonably careful, although during 9/1I I watched a lot of CNN. We watch TCM letter-boxed films, but NO game playing. I use justify for SD, but we mainly watch HD cable. I do avoid those channels with dark logos (like CNN). I had the set ISF'd recently and the technician confirmed there is no sign of any burn-in.
Leslie

So I'm contemplating a 60"-70" display for my family room. It will be our main display for movies, TV, and games.

The big question is whether or not Plasma is ok for video games yet? I'm talking 3-5 hrs. straight once a week or so and even more on birthdays etc.

The upcoming Sony Qualia RPTV (1080P) and Samsung xHD3 (1080P) are my two main candidates, but I keep reading plasma is much improved and I see plasmas in airports with continuous computer display.

So anyone know? Have any links to papers, etc.?

Thanks,
Ken

I play hours of xbox on our 42" pwd6uy and I've never had an issue. When Halo2 came out, this turned into marathon nights and weekends of xbox gaming, 3-5 hours as you mentioned Ken. Playing games on a plasma isn't an issue, just keep it on JUST and make sure it's been calibrated properly (turn down those torch factory settings).

Every game has save screens, cut scenes, chapter breaks, etc. that swap out static HUDS that might worry you. :)

-JR

Juice, has the petition (with the 1025 signatures) regarding logos been sent to each and everyone of the TV channels? I've noticed an improvement, but there are still too many channels whose logo is opaque, obtrusive and damaging. I -- and I am sure many other plasma owners -- stay away from these channels.

Update on the weather channel ghost. Still there after 4 weeks. I only see the very light ghost on the white screen, however, watching a Christmas special with white snow, saw the ghost in the snow ( i was looking for the ghost to see if it showed up on a white background).

Over the past 4 weeks, have used the white screen a number of times, and made sure that whenever my wife went to the weather channel she had the set on normal, which placed the logo in a different spot.

Any other suggestions to try to get rid of this?

Thanks, Mike

Does your set include a "picture inversion" feature? If so, go to the Weather channel, turn on inversion, and let it simmer.

Unfortunately, the Fujitsu does not have that feature. I wish it did, that would be a neat solution.

Thanks guys. Not a very confidence filling array of responses :(

The last thing that would go over in my house is watching channels based on the logo.

Sounds like the latest Panny's and Pio's are the most burnin proof, but I think I'll hold off until someone can point to real data or warranty or anything concrete.

Ken

I have had a new Pioneer Elite 920 for about 4 weeks now and my 30 day, no-hassle return periiod is up tomorrow som it's decision time!!

My question is this: I have brightness and contrast at 50% (set at 30 on a scale to 60), but when I watch channels with a non transparent logo (like Fox HD) I can see the logo ghost image retained on the screen when I power off the source (screen still on). I saw this last week after watching the OC for 1 hour and just last night when QVC was on for only 10-15 minutes. These ghost images seem to go away when I watch something else for a few minutes, but never-the-less, it does concern me.
I also watched the Fellowship of the Rings in HD on TNT the other night (amazing PQ by the way) and even thought the TNT logo is transparent, I could still see a slight ghost when I powered down the cable box (again the display is still on)

Is this a precursor to burn-in or is it not an issue? From what I've read on the forum, I was under the impression that the latest Pioneers were very burn-in resistant, but I'm a little concerned.

I can't see turning down contrast or brightness further as then I lose the PQ that was the reason I purchased the set in the first place.

I'm tempted to return it and get the Sharp 45, but based on seeing it at 2 different stores, I really don't think it's PQ is a match for the 920 - skin tones don't seem as real (more posterized?). But spending big $ on a plasma and having to be super careful with it is a littel unnerving. Any opinions on th Sharp 45 PQ versus plasma PQ?

Thanks!

Jim

What you are describing is "Image-retention" not burn-in.

As your plasma gets more hours of use, this "image-retention" should go away faster and faster to the point where it doesn't retain at all.

Image retention is one thing the "break-in period" is good for. At least 100 hours will "break in" you plasmas phosphers/pixels.

I wouldn't worry about it. You seem to be varying your viewing which is what's needed to prevent future burn-in. And you also say that the image retention you see DOES go away in a few minutes right?

The best thing for you to do is NOT think about it and just enjoy your plasma. I know, I know...easier said then done.

I have not heard about any Pioneer owners having burn-in problems so your plasma should be ok as well.

Is that a new Pioneer that's from NEC.?
Cause my Daewoo by NEC had bad image retention...now it's almost not there.

It takes a long time to burn an image into a screen. You would have to leave that static image on the screen multiple hours a day, every day of the week continuously for it to start permanently burning an image into your display. Image retention is common with the technology and something you shouldn't be too concerned about.

Thanks for the responses - It helps to hear from those with more experience with these panels.

One question, though - it seems like more and more stations are broadcasting with a logo (transparent or not) in the lower right corner of the screen. Could this end up eventually wearing or "burning-in" an area in that portion of the screen?

In general, is plasma alot more sensitive than CRT to burn-in. The 920 replaced a 27" Hitachi Direct View CRT that I bought back in 1989. That set has seen it all (DVD menu screens up for an hour or two, video games for hours on end and when my parents are over babysitting the kids my dad has Fox News on all day) and I see absolutely no evidence of burn in of anything!

If hardware is what you worry about while at work then it's best to put your toys under lock and key while you are away - provide a cheap alternative for the masses. Store your Plazma behind a hidden wall accessible by password only. Get real - before your Plazma burns in it will be obsolete, it will be eclipsed in a year by some other Plazma TV or WAIT what about the new LCD's - brighter, no burn in , sharper , more intense colors etc... Look this is a losing game buy all the stuff you want and FORGET ABOUT IT. I guess you cry when you get the first dent or scrape - buy a product that in it's worn state surpasses the average then you won't have to worry yourself about such traumatic things as burn - in..

Nice attitude there!! I guess you have money coming out the wazoo to just buy a new $6K TV every 2-3 years. Understand that we all don't and that there is a tremendous amount of conflicting info out there and very few "official" reputable sources of info on the subject and even then it appears to be vague - they all say things like prolonged viewing of 4:3 or static images can cause permanent burn-in, but don't quantify what prolonged means.

I'm just trying to draw on other's experience to try to understand what the real situation is - I'll be sure to just ignore your input and hope more rational folks read this thread and provide feedback that is constructive.

There are many criteria that are just as important as burn-in - what about luminescence, what about compatibility with srevices, set-top devices, hdtv standards and interfaces. It goes on and on - sometimes when we read someones post we see ourselves and how "ridiculous we sound". I bought the first real cassete deck Harmon Kardon back in the day two months and a day later they came out with an improved version with far better S/N ratio's - I learned way back then - set your plan - research until you are comfortable - commit and don't compare or look back until you are ready to buy again. I am probably just as critical as you maybe more so - but as time goes by I have learned not to drive myself nuts. Just bought the MAC G5 - top of the line - Apple just came out with water-cooled technology and a .5 MHZ improvement - who cares. My TV does what it needs to - if you notice the faint shades of black then turn up your subwoofer, hug your kids, pet you dog. Hardware will never live up to Spiritualware...

.

>>prolonged viewing of 4:3 or static images can cause permanent burn-in,
>>but don't quantify what prolonged means.

Well all sets are different .... some have reported image retention after just several hours (3-4???). If you just fill your screen 80% of the time you should have no problem. Even after 2-3 months of running 4:3 you can condition them back by running full screen white in 2 hour bursts and always watching in full screen mode.

I much prefer watching a full screen "stretched" picture than a 4:3 ..... the question is do you?? Ya, I know, Pam Anderson's butt looks wider than it should, but one gets used to it.


Want to see 4:3 retention ( on its way to burn-in!!)
http://members.rogers.com/kjcaudle/plasma5Frame1Source1.htm

Kurt.

I have about a two-week old Panasonic TH-42PD25U/P (42" plasma ED consumer model). A couple of days ago, the cable box turned off, but the TV did not. A black screen (power on, but no input) was on for about 8 hours. Is this likely to have caused a problem, and, if so, what should I look for to see if it did cause a problem?

Hi jbjtb,

Welcome to the forum.

With no input to the display I wouldn't worry about it. Remember "burn-in" is due to phosphors aging at a different rate. None of the phospors were "engaged", hence no wear. Even if there was wear it would be across the entire display as opposed to a 4:3 box.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, but just to be sure you can put up a full white image from Avia and look for signs of burn-in...but I doubt if you will see any.

Not sure if this belongs here.

A co-worker of mine is in the market for a new TV. I've told him that buying an EDTV is a waste of money.

He was recently told by an "Expert" at "Greatest Purchase" :D that the lifespan of an EDTV is much longer than an HDTV.

I think this is a bunch of doo-doo.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Yup, pure bunk!!

Interested though in why you think buying an EDTV to be a waste of money?

Originally posted by rmcgirr83
Interested though in why you think buying an EDTV to be a waste of money?

Although there are certain to be a number of detractors from this theory, my personal preferenc is 1080i. This is but a dream for EDTV.

FWIW, it is but a dream for many of the main stream panels as well as most, IIRC, NR is not 1920x1080....also not much content is availble at that resolution natively.

I am planning on getting a Philips 42pf9976 Pixel Plus 2 Plasma TV.
I will be using it for DVDs, SD and HD viewing and heavy DVD usage.
BUT, Im a gamer too and i spend quite some time playing videogames, should I worry about burn in on this set? Thanks in advance for a reply. BTW, im new here so correct me if i said anything wrong :D

Originally posted by quad user
A major risk of burn-in is the "I fell asleep while watching a DVD on my plasma and when it was over the DVD menu screen was displayed for six hours" syndrome. Been there, done that. No screen saver will protect you from this because most DVD menu screens have some movement that will prevent the screen saver from coming on. A better idea is to employ a timer in the plasma or DVD player (like the Panasonic xp30) that can be set in anticipation of lights out.

Any owners of the panny 42pwd7uy, does it have a sleep timer, like most tv's? I would've assumed so, until I read that they don't have closed captioning either.

Thanks!



edited to say nevermind, found that it does on the pdf spec sheet on visualapex.com.

Some displays (e.g., Pio) have a feature that they turn off if no button on the TV remote is pushed after 3 hours regardless of the input signal. Because you can easily watch a lot of TV without touching the TV remote (e.g., use the receiver's remote for audio, STB remote for station selection, DVD remote for movies, etc.) the Pio politely displays a very small "5 minute warning" message in the bottom left hand corner of the display. All you have to do is press a button on the TV remote (I often tap the "Display" button twice) to keep the panel going.

If you use the "fall asleep" scenario, the DVD and the receiver will happily play whatever annoying DVD menu music / sound effects are present all night, but the panel would have put itself to bed.

Rich,

Im just curious...what kind (brand/model) of Dvd player did u use when you calibrated your TV? Did you use the Dvd player's progressive scan or used the plasmas de-interlacer? and one more thing did you use a high qualty S-video cable and Component Video Cable (i.e. Audioquest, Kimber) video cable or just as i would say regular cables?

My Profile (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=59319)

i am new to this site and I am glad I found it.

i recently purchased a panasonic TH-42pd25u/p and want to prevent burn-in and did not know about calibration until I happen to come across it on another site. Is any one familiar with these two books on calibration dvd, Video Essentials and Avia Guid to Home Theater. Would these be of any use to me. I noticed the published date of 1997 and 1999.

As you know it always looks better at the store and you have to fiddle around with the settings to get the best picture when you have the unit at home and I do not want to ruin my newly purchased item

I look forward to any help this forum can provide.:D

You've listed the two most popular calibration DVDs out there. However, considering their older dates, you'll likely find much of the information and tests are outdated and irrelevant for fixed pixel displays, so be forwarned. Updated versions are available.

ny_latin
Check out this site for new plasma owners concerning burn-in.

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/pressroom/cont2.asp?Filter=12&cont_id=822

Originally posted by 1918sox
ny_latin
Check out this site for new plasma owners concerning burn-in.

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/pressroom/cont2.asp?Filter=12&cont_id=822
1918SOX..thanks for this link. this is some great information that every plasma owner should know.

brian

With my viewing habits I'm not too concerned with burn-in. For regular tv I tend to channel surf during commercials and my dvd player has a feature that lets me stop the video and it will start back in the same place without having to pause.

According to Panasonic the first 100 hours are where the set is most vulnerable, so if you just use the full/just mode as much as possible for the first month or so, and set the side bars to mid to light gray, you should have no problem. I have had mine about 6 weeks and watch quite a bit of 4:3 stuff with the sidebars set mid-gray, and no signs of burn in at all. In a few months I will pretty much forget about it, as far as normal usage goes. Strangely, I find I have gotten used to watching a lot of SD material in Just mode, especially news shows. After a while the mind adjusts to it surprisingly well. The Panasonic also does a good job in the zoom mode on 4:3 DVDs - very little loss of resolution.

DVE should be around $25 and you can get it from your local B&N or Borders book store (in there DVD section of course!) It is good to use to get a good baseline for your DVD input, and the same settings are ok for a rough stab at the rest of the inputs.

Just turn the brightness down and then adjust to tastes and you should be fine. I have had my panny from before Thanksgiving without any regard to black sidebars and there is no hint of burn.

-Suntan

thanks everyone for your information.

housecor
--i tried searching the web for mor recent ones, but could not find any.

does anyone have any ideas.

Thanks again

It's this one:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005PJ70.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Made in 2003...I believe it's the most upto date.

everyone is talking about a white bar they run across the screen? how do i do that?

Most displays have a "white screen sweep" it's usually located in the "menu" portion of the display. Are you sure yours has one?

Hi

I am awaiting delivery of my first plasma and have just waded thru the 19 pages of this thread.

My assessment is something like, Don't worry about it unduly for normal viewing BUT do take heed of the recommendations for the first 100-200 hours of use.

One thing I have not seen covered is any recomendations for maximum hours use per day during this period. So for the burn in period would it, for example, be good/bad/indifferent to run the panel continuously with a Full screen with no logos and contrast low.

This would get the hours of 'abnormal' use out of the way quickly.

Any comments appreciated.

Thanks

Alan

IMHO, indifferent.

Your displaying a full field for those 24 hours/day...that is, all the pixels are charged.

100-200 hours over a 4 to 10 day period is the same as 100-200 hours over a 4 to 10 week period.

Just my .02

Originally posted by rmcgirr83
It's this one:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005PJ70.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Made in 2003...I believe it's the most upto date.

Thanks for the info. Have you used this and if so how would you rate it?

Yes, I've used it as well as Avia, I've also had my plasma ISF'ed.

It's a pretty good disc and did a lot...also took quite a while also.

I still didn't think the pq was there yet though, hence the ISF.

YMMV.

This may sound stupid but Is there any way to use a plasma Display as a computer monitor at all with all the static images. I mean They have VGA and DVI ports so it seems like it's meant ot be used like a monitor. BTW I just purchased a vizio 42" HDe plasma.

I can't seem to find many preventitive burn in features except orbiting. I don't see any of the screen wipe, screensaver, or reverse image features I see people talk about. Also I didnt see any option to change the bars from black to grey or another color. But I can't stand stretching at all. Is this something I should be concerened about?

So it's known that we should turn down brightness and contrast - how about "color", "tint", and "sharpness" settings during the burn-in period?

Originally posted by Zoglog
This may sound stupid but Is there any way to use a plasma Display as a computer monitor at all with all the static images. I mean They have VGA and DVI ports so it seems like it's meant ot be used like a monitor. BTW I just purchased a vizio 42" HDe plasma.

I can't seem to find many preventitive burn in features except orbiting. I don't see any of the screen wipe, screensaver, or reverse image features I see people talk about. Also I didnt see any option to change the bars from black to grey or another color. But I can't stand stretching at all. Is this something I should be concerened about? Strange? your Viz doesn't have a ''White Screen button''. My old Viz P46'' EDe had one?

Originally posted by calicuzn
Strange? your Viz doesn't have a ''White Screen button''. My old Viz P46'' EDe had one?

sadly none that i've noticed thusfar =(

what type of burn in protection does a Panasonic TH-42PD25U have?

also

what sets have this picture inversion?
pixel shift?

those sort of things?

Burn-in question! Did anyone experience any burn-in from watching the super-bowl or other football games. They always post the score and I was wondering if that would create any burn-in. If not are plasma pretty safe to buy without worry of burn-in from watching sports. Thanks Greg

Originally posted by Greg Young
Burn-in question! Did anyone experience any burn-in from watching the super-bowl or other football games. They always post the score and I was wondering if that would create any burn-in. If not are plasma pretty safe to buy without worry of burn-in from watching sports. Thanks Greg

I have not noticed any at all.

I've had my plasma since last April. Burn in was a major concern for me when I first got it.

Over the summer I watched a lot of the Nascar coverage. At first just in standard def. At that time I would zoom the picture to keep the "ticker" from being displayed at the top of the screen as I watched the races.

After getting my HDTIVO I stopped doing that. I just watched it the way it was broadcast.
I also watched many NFL and college games this last season.

The only thing I "tweak" while watching now, is standard def. For that I still "stretch" the 4x3 image to eliminate the side bars, and fill the 16x9 screen.

I don't really think about the burn in issue any longer. I just watch what I want, which tends to be a good variety.

Hi, Can someone direct me to the post that outlines how to break in a new plasma.

I bought the plasma mainly for HDTV and gaming. Read someones post about first 100 hours, NO gaming etc then after that, only %10 gaming till you clock up 1000hrs or someting. I can deal with that, big $$$ and i'm not intending increase burn in risk cause i'm impatient. I just want to get the link to the post so i can read it fully :) I dont want to misinteperet someone elses post.

Thanks :)

Originally posted by grandpipe
Hi, Can someone direct me to the post that outlines how to break in a new plasma.

I bought the plasma mainly for HDTV and gaming. Read someones post about first 100 hours, NO gaming etc then after that, only %10 gaming till you clock up 1000hrs or someting. I can deal with that, big $$$ and i'm not intending increase burn in risk cause i'm impatient. I just want to get the link to the post so i can read it fully :) I dont want to misinteperet someone elses post.

Thanks :)

Hello

Don't know if I can point to a specific thread but here are the basics:

New plasma guidelines:

-during the first 100 hours, try to fill the screen with most material: plasmas are particularly susceptible to ghosting/burn-in during this time

-turn the brightness and contrast down from "torch settings"

-try to avoid or at least minimize material that can cause burn-in such as some games, news channels with "crawls" that are always on, or channels that have logos always on

After 100 hours just use your plasma normally: observe the standard good practices to avoid burn-in and enjoy your new set :)

thanks alot for the summary :)

Burn-in question! Did anyone experience any burn-in from watching the super-bowl or other football games. They always post the score and I was wondering if that would create any burn-in. If not are plasma pretty safe to buy without worry of burn-in from watching sports. Thanks Greg



_ I wanted to reply to this question, becuase not answering this question clearly can lead to crazy rumors and falsehoods.

Your new Plasma will NEVER I repeat NEVER burn-in becuase you watched a 4 hour game with a score ticker always in the same spot.
Even if there were not any commercial breaks or halftime inmterruptions this would still never happen during this timeframe.

If you paused the game and left the screen pasued for 24 hours, well that may be a different story.

Also - there is a major difference between temporary ghosting, which is not harmful and permanent burn-in.

Cheers,
Matt

FWIW, I don't experience burn-in nor image retention/ghosting when watching a football game or any game for that matter (like UCONN b-ball).

so how would you all define extended periods of time?

basically how many hours would be acceptable on a static image?

new below 100 hours plasma:
below 1000 hours plasma:

Originally posted by grandpipe
Hi, Can someone direct me to the post that outlines how to break in a new plasma.

I bought the plasma mainly for HDTV and gaming. Read someones post about first 100 hours, NO gaming etc then after that, only %10 gaming till you clock up 1000hrs or someting. I can deal with that, big $$$ and i'm not intending increase burn in risk cause i'm impatient. I just want to get the link to the post so i can read it fully :) I dont want to misinteperet someone elses post.

Thanks :)


Here is a link for burn-in info from Panasonic:

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/pressroom/cont2.asp?Filter=12&cont_id=822

I would like to ask why it is recommended on this thread to lower the brightness setting to prevent burn-in. Panasonic does not recommend keeping the brightness setting lower than normal, only the picture control (contrast). Since screen burn-in is caused by the uneven aging of phosphors, I fail to see the logic in setting the black level so low that it degrades picture quality (clay faces, loss of shadow detail).

I only bring this up because I keep reading posts from people who are setting the brightness too low and degrading their picture quality, probably due to the recommendations at the beginning of this thread. Actually, I would think that turning up the brightness, while keeping the contrast low, would provide a more uniform screen brightness and reduce risk of burn-in, not that I recommend this.

Originally posted by IraG
Here is a link for burn-in info from Panasonic:

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_e...=12&cont_id=822

I would like to ask why it is recommended on this thread to lower the brightness setting to prevent burn-in. Panasonic does not recommend keeping the brightness setting lower than normal, only the picture control (contrast). Since screen burn-in is caused by the uneven aging of phosphors, I fail to see the logic in setting the black level so low that it degrades picture quality (clay faces, loss of shadow detail).

I only bring this up because I keep reading posts from people who are setting the brightness too low and degrading their picture quality, probably due to the recommendations at the beginning of this thread. Actually, I would think that turning up the brightness, while keeping the contrast low, would provide a more uniform screen brightness and reduce risk of burn-in, not that I recommend this.

The link doesn't work.


There are a lot of information in this thread and I was hoping someone can give me either a yes or no answer. In this generation of plasmas, how serious is this burn-in issue?

Originally posted by IraG
I only bring this up because I keep reading posts from people who are setting the brightness too low and degrading their picture quality, probably due to the recommendations at the beginning of this thread.

Brightness should only be reduced to the point where black detail is not lost. Similar to the way that you adjust sharpness. FWIW, when I first Avia'ed our set the brightness, per Avia, was set to -15. I have since had the plasma calibrated and it's now at -25. This correlates to a reading of ~14 fls...which is what ISF recommends. Actually I believe ISF recommends between 12 and 15 fls.

Sgt strider,

The burn-in issue isn't really what it's being made out to be. We purchased our ED set in April 2003 and have yet to experience any sort of burn-in or prolonged image retention.

That being said there is a thread currently in here concerning NEC panels and there seems to be quite a bit of image retention with these units.

YMMV.

"There are a lot of information in this thread and I was hoping someone can give me either a yes or no answer. In this generation of plasmas, how serious is this burn-in issue? [/B][/QUOTE] "

If you fill the screen 90% of the time burn-in will not be a problem .... if you run black side bars (or top/bottom) constantly, you will have retention/burn-in .If you hate a stretched picture, and watch a lot of regular non-HD, Plasma may not be for you.

I would rather NOT watch a stretched TV image but the incredible detail available while watching the occasional full screen HD is worth it.

Kurt

Originally posted by kcaudle
"There are a lot of information in this thread and I was hoping someone can give me either a yes or no answer. In this generation of plasmas, how serious is this burn-in issue? "

If you fill the screen 90% of the time burn-in will not be a problem .... if you run black side bars (or top/bottom) constantly, you will have retention/burn-in .If you hate a stretched picture, and watch a lot of regular non-HD, Plasma may not be for you.

I would rather NOT watch a stretched TV image but the incredible detail available while watching the occasional full screen HD is worth it.

Kurt [/B][/QUOTE]

I was thinking about using it to watch DVD's. How about gaming then? If I watch DVD's, wouldn't there still be black bars in the top and bottom? You're telling me I shouldn't watch DVD's then? Will the manufacturer replace the burn-in panel or I'm screwed if that happens?

Originally posted by Sgt_Strider
I was thinking about using it to watch DVD's. How about gaming then? If I watch DVD's, wouldn't there still be black bars in the top and bottom? You're telling me I shouldn't watch DVD's then? Will the manufacturer replace the burn-in panel or I'm screwed if that happens?

Depends on the aspect ratio of the DVD if 1.78:1 (16/9=1.78) then it will fill the entire screen...if 2.35:1 then you'll have the black bars. The higher the aspect ratio the larger your black bars will be.

We watch both QAR (original aspect ratio) of the DVD and as I stated have yet to experience burn-in.

YMMV.

[/QUOTE]
I was thinking about using it to watch DVD's. How about gaming then? If I watch DVD's, wouldn't there still be black bars in the top and bottom? You're telling me I shouldn't watch DVD's then? Will the manufacturer replace the burn-in panel or I'm screwed if that happens? [/B][/QUOTE]


DVD's are fantastic , not as good as HD but still real good ..... my pio 4340 automatically scales the DVD size to full screen, no bars, so it's a no brainer for me. Most, if not all, my DVD's are wide-screen so I'm not sure what a std size dvd would do. Even bars for a couple of hours is OK as long as you go full screen for sometime after that.

I have been meaning to hook up the gamecube to the pio but I afraid once the kids see it, I'll have to fight them for the plasma all the time.

You could go LCD, and avoid the burn-in issue, but then you have to worry about bad pixel's...... i think plasma's are cheaper aren't they?????? A whole new debate .... check out the other FORUM chatter on LCD's!

I had serious retention, due to prolonged 4:3 use .... but after several months of full screen use its 99% gone ..... i am the only one who notices it now and am sure it will disappear. I fully expect the electronics to blow up before the panel itself gives out.

I don't care what anyone else says .... for my eyes, plasma provides the best picture. You can argue LCD is close, real close, but not quite, for me. I blew a pile of money on the plasma .... no regrets so far, especially so soon after the 'superbowl'. If i did it again I'm not sure I would go pio but it would be a plasma for sure.

Kurt.

The Burn-In Faq:

Originally posted by rmcgirr83
6) Plasmas are very susceptible to "burn-in" when in their infancy as the phosphors have not had a chance to age. A few hundred hours of watching varied material to age the phosphors is not unrealistic and will probably due a lot to curtail possible damage.

Should it be changed to read "fill the screen" for a few hundred hours in place of "watching varied material"??

FWIW, according to this (http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2005/0105ces-lg.html):

"LG Electronics Wednesday announced that it will incorporate its DoubleLife technology, which prevents early burn-in of images onto a plasma screen, into plasma display panels starting in 2005. "

I wonder if this is specific to LG as the article states that the only difference is due to half brightness increase. I suppose (??) that the NR of 1920x1080 could have something to do with it, but I don't see how. This particular panel is 71 inches, has dual standard and HD tuners, and a 160 GB HD to record HD or whatever suits you. I wonder if this is the unit that will finally have Rogo saying "ahhhhhhh"?;)

Also curious how HDCP fits into all this and who can afford the $75,000 price tag although I would imagine that to be different at street, but something I still wouldn't be able to afford.

FWIW, they are introducing a 55" later this year.

Originally posted by Sgt_Strider
The link doesn't work.


There are a lot of information in this thread and I was hoping someone can give me either a yes or no answer. In this generation of plasmas, how serious is this burn-in issue?


I fixed the link.

I noticed that on the standard abc broadcasting but on the HD ABC channel the aspect ratio is larger than other non-hd channels. There is only about 2 inches of black bars on each side of our 42" panny plasma and the picture quality looks outstanding(she was watching oprah) Because the picture is so close to filling up the screen, is moderate viewing(1-2 hours) on that channel going to create any burn in problems?

The same applies to the "partial stretch" as it does to the normal, bigger 4:3 bars. If all you do is watch ABC 90% of the time, then the "thin" bars could potentially burn in. But a couple hours a day should not be an issue, any more than watching an occasional 2.35:1 DVD movie.

I think the biggest concern with burn-in is the "stark" edge caused by the wear being in the exact same spot. The "orbiting" function of a plasma should ensure that even if there is uneven wear, that it's gradually distributed over a few pixels which would make it much less noticeable If you're really worried about lots of ABC usage you might consider using your TV's picture controls to modify the picture size and position a little once in a great while, to distribute the wear some. I do that after about 40 hours of video game play just to be on the safe side. I don't think it matters though. After a year and half of owning my Panasonic plasma, there isn't the slightest hint of ANY burn anywhere. I peridocially check with a full white screen.

-- Rob

I had to fly into La Jolla, Calif., a couple of weeks ago. While in the San Francisco airport, I noticed a technology display. There were two plasmas, on on each wall, facing each other. Each had some really ugly burn-in of some company's logo in the upper corner. When I went back through the airport a week later, I stopped in to stare again and yep -- same burn-in. I can't believe they let that happen to beautiful plasmas, but I suppose in an airport, what do you expect? Whatever the case, it wasn't good advertising for plasma TV. Not only did they have burn-in, they also were showing SD on them. Ugh.

Shame they let a static image sit on those units like that, but at a place like an airport, there's little or no attention paid to their display units.

This should probably be nudged into the Master Burn-In thread. :)

-JR

Those were probably also early generation panels...

So here is the question that I have been dreading. As background, I watch an excessive amount of baseball. I go to 20 or so home games and after you eliminate the handful of games that are not televised or are on during the day when I am working, it is probably close to 100 games during the course of 6 months. The vast majority are from two different sources, a local independent channel and a regional sports network. The two groups, while they share announcers, have their own unique graphics. I have a brand new Pioneer PDP-4304 (aka Costco special) that will have completed 100 hours of break-in by the time the season starts. During that time I will have watched no 4:3 ratio programming that hasn't been stretched in some fashion, no 2.35:1 and kept the contrast down. I have the orbiter feature enabled. I will reluctantly stretch the baseball games as well. There will be a few HD games, but most will be SD from these two sources. Is this, as I fear, just as dangerous as playing a lot of video games? Should I be retiring to the smaller TV upstairs for every other game? I don't have any recorded games to look back on but I suspect that the graphics are not transparent and while they are not on ALL the time, they are on most of the time (the thingie that shows which bases are inhabited, the line with the balls, strikes, etc.) Does anybody have experience with this sort of thing? Any suggestions?

Originally posted by pbenjamin
So here is the question that I have been dreading. As background, I watch an excessive amount of baseball. I go to 20 or so home games and after you eliminate the handful of games that are not televised or are on during the day when I am working, it is probably close to 100 games during the course of 6 months. .....

Thats only about a game every other day ..... 3 hours every 2nd day. Likely not an issue. If you get a DVD to display an all white screen you can check it whenever you want. You can also let the unit run the next day for a few hours on a "varied" full screen. I had to run my pio at 4:3 for several months, 3-6 hours per day, before I noticed retention.

Kurt.

I have had the 7UY since October 2004. It has quickly become the main tv because of the beauty of its picture.

I would say it averages 10 hours per day of continuous time.

My wife is addicted to QVC, so that channel forms the majority of daytime use. This channel is 4:3 and I have the white sidebars on.

The rest of the time is spent mostly with HD, although frequently the channel is about 4:3 with no white sidebars. We also watch dvd's, sporting events, etc.

To my mind, we use the 7UY just as we did our former television - no special accommodation at all.

So far, no burn-in issues of any sort! Nada. Zero. Zilch. Getting scared to death after reading this thread when I was looking around for what to buy, I even used the white screen test to search out the first sign of burn-in. I have only found slight issues with image retention and trust me when I say it is subtle and variable.

For me, burn-in is a non-issue anymore - at least for the way in which I use the panel.

hoe long to plasma tv last compared to LCD's?

Beware the News channels with Red Logos etc, here in the UK Sky is a culprit and after initial scares I now watch it infrequently. I used to have it on all day!

Cheers

Alan

I just got my Pio 4312 on Weds. and have a burn-in question.

Disclaimer: I have not read through the whole thread yet, but am working my way through it.

I am stretching all SD input (via the STB) so that the whole screen is filled. I never allow the image to be displayed with side or top bars. And I've instructed my kids to do the same. HD, of course, is wide screen, so no issue.

My question is relative to DVD watching. We watched our first DVD last night - The Incredibles. It was awesome, but none of the Pio zoom modes would fill the screen - they all have black bars (I think I know why from various threads and posts). I could zoom on the DVD, then combine that with a Pio zoom mode, but the PQ wasn't what I wanted. So I kept switching the Pio zoom mode every five minutes to vary where the black bars were.

Do I really have to worry about burn-in from 2 or 4 hours of DVD watching with the black bars? If so (and if not, I guess), is there a better way to mitigate the black bars?

I really appreciate any input and advice.

Walt

Originally posted by waltaz
So I kept switching the Pio zoom mode every five minutes to vary where the black bars were. IMO, that sounds like overkill. For me, that'd be very distracting to constantly switch the mode. It seems like you vary your programming (HD, stretched SD, etc) as per the recommendations, so I would think an occasional DVD w/ black bars shouldn't be a big problem. If you're still worried, can you change the "black" bars to "grey" in your TV menu? Not sure if it'll make a huge difference though.

Just sit back and relax a little. I could feel your anxiety/tension just from reading your post. Just make sure you don't confuse image retention, which from what I read is temporary, with true burn-in which is permanent. I almost did and freaked-out (have Pio plasma also), so I could only imagine how you might react.

If just setting the sidebars to gray (Panasonic) solves the 4:3 burn-in problem (and I think it does) then the only remaining concern is the top/bottom bars on occasional extra WS material, and from my experience a 2 hour movie in that mode will not cause burn-in.

dsmith901,
How about a 3+ hour movie like the LOTR EE's. Would Top and Bottom black bars for that length of time be a possible burn in cause or is this pretty safe assuming that I have some other TV viewing (HDTV Full Screen) at the other times.
This is a pretty important point to me as I probably watch 2-3 WS DVDs a week. The sometimes will have black bars on the top adn bottom. I'd say I am at about 7 hours of WS DVD a week and 23 or so hours of general viewing through Directv.
-Evangelo2

OK - I've spent the last two hours reading this post and everything else around here about burn-in.

Lower the brightness and contrast -

I have a Fuji 55 - Brightness and Contrast are set at 0 by default (which I assume is a mid-point) - how much lower is low?

what is safe for the first 200 hours on my plasma?

I lowered the luminance (drive contrast) from 100 to 40 and that lowered the brightness of the picture, but I want to know if I should know more.

Why cant DTV broadcasters eliminate the black bars on the sides? I'm know it's possible since ESPN-HD does this all the time. I'm sure other HD owners would agree since it would minimize burn in. I hate having to stretch the image during commercial breaks and switching back to normal mode after. How soon will more advertisers start making commercials in HD?

Just venting,
Aud

I have a Vizio 42HDe and recently I've become very concerned with burn-in. As many of you know, it's baseball season and since I'm an avid fan, I'll be watching many games. Yesterday, a game was being broadcasted in HD on InHD channel and InHD has a static image up in the shape of a baseball diamond to report the score and game situation (runners on, count, score, etc.) This image unfortunately is static and mostly bright red. After about 5 minutes, my plasma will retain this image (more so in the red areas). I can tell because my cable box temporarily grays the screen when I change channels and on a gray background, any image retention becomes very apparant. Now this happens only after 5 minutes of viewing that game. The image will gradually go away while watching other content, so this retention isn't permanent. My question is, how safe is it to watch a game on this station? If a game typically lasts 3 hours or so, will this lead me down to permanent burn-in?

Here is the TV that I'm currently looking at to buy. http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony...roductDetail.do I would use it for only two things witch are watching DVD's and playing X-Box. Now my main concert about this set is burn in. What are my chances of burn in with it? I don't play games for more then 2 hrs at a time and maybe add an hour on to that when I watch a DVD. Also it this set says it’s an EDTV what does that mean can it still display 480p, 720p, and 1080i like an HDTV?

Link to the Burn-In FAQ is dead. Where do i find this? How much chance of burn-in on an LCD TV? IS DLP the only TV without a chance of burn-in?

Unless something has changed that I'm not aware of DLP and LCD are immune to burnin.

Hi-

I received a few weeks ago a Pioneer 4350. The picture is great, except two pixels are lit red on the screen. I just hooked it up a few days ago for the first time, and it's been used less than 10 hours total. This may have been there all along, but I just noticed it now.

I purchased it from TV Authority under the Perfect Pixel Guarantee/Five Star Program, and I've sent them an e-mail about this (they are not open now and I just found this), but I have a few questions I was hoping folks here could help out with:

(1) How often does this happen?

(2) Can it be fixed, or do I need a new panel?

(3) Are more of these lit pixels likely to appear as time goes by, or is this something that happens early on.

Please help me! This is my first plasma and I'm getting nervous!

Thanks!

My initial LCD / Plasma burn-in comments.

I recently bought two flat panel TV's. I decided to go all out and to go with two different technolgies for two different rooms in my house.

1) Panasonic TC-26LX20 - 26" LCD

This set has been used for approximately 2 hours a day. I have not paid any attention to the content on the screen or the size of the picture. Absolutely no burn-in or LCD pixel issues have resulted. Great picture, and I'm keeping the brightness/contrast nearly at 3/4 up the scale. I knew that burn in was not a major issue for LCD, and my set has proven it. I've owned this set for around 2 months now.

2) Pioneer PDP-4312 - Tunerless 43" Plasma Monitor.

I just got this set, and although the picture quality is better than my LCD, I am very concerned about burn-in/etching. The set has around 2 hours on it as of now, and I've been watching 100% full screen or stretched 4:3 material.

I turned of my input souce last night and looked at the 'blank' black screen, I noticed last night that I've got the Fox News logo and banner etched! I looked at the settings and realized that the brightness and contrast was cranked up to the max - factory defaults. So, I bumped things down to the 1st power save mode and then bumped the brightness and contrast down a few notches. I had the Fox news channel on when I had set the TV up earlier for an hour, so it must have caused the etching, even though I had just finished watching something else for at least 10-20 minutes.

So, I am going to pay close attention to the first 100 hrs. No fixed images for a while. And, the 'etching' is completely gone since I have run the tv for another hour or so with full moving content.

But, this was a scary experience becuase the set was just unpacked and I did not realize anything about a 100 hour break-in period. I watch mainly news and would have definately caused some burn-in had I not caught my mistake.

Sounds more like "image retention" to me, which is apparently common with new panels & supposedly decreases with use. It probably scares plenty of new plasma owners when they first see it. From what I've read, image retention is not permanent, whereas burn-in is. Do a 'search' in this thread & you'll find more info.

I just had my first experience with "image retention" on my Panasonic 50PHD6UY. I can see why it scares people. I played Lenend of Zelda: Majoras Mask for probably around a hundred hours over the course of the last couple months, intermixed with other TV viewing. The last thing I did with the set was finish the game last night.

The next morning I was using the HTPC and noticed a bar in the upper lefthand corner ... The ghost of the magic meter! Turning the brightness to its full setting and dragging a white window around, I could clearly see the life hearts along the top and the clock at the bottom of the screen. They were "thick" due to the use of the wobbler function.

My instinct told me that this was not "burn-in" - Instead of these things being darker than the white surroundings, they were *brighter* and *bluer* - the opposite of what you should see with phosphor burn. Intrigued, I fired up a pure white screen. Interestingly, when I did this, my "burn" was instantly invisible. No matter what I did with the brightness and contrast controls, I could not see the slightest bit of any ghosts anywhere. I went back to the desktop. Only when you drag mixed content around the screen can you see the ghosts. I left the white up on the screen for a couple minutes. After that short period of time, the "ghosts" on the windows desktop were invisible.

Bottom line: Don't stress out if you see some retention of something recent. :)

Seems like many are stressed about burn-in, yet I haven't read of many who's suffered from it. Anyone out there who's actually had real, permanent plasma burn-in? If so, under what conditions?

Ok, I have a challenge for someone out here...

Does anyone on this forum suffer from actual permanent 'burn-in'? If so, could you please describe the symptoms. Also, could you link some pictures so that we can see what permanent damage looks like. I know that the letterbox marks and logos are obvious, but let's see some real damage in action.

Etching seems to be a non-issue, although it causes some heartache when you first experience it. Even if etching takes a while to go away, it appears that it is only temporary in nature, and if your contrast and brightness are not cranked all the way up, then this really should be a non-issue.

As with most members on this thread, I think that we're scared of permanent damage, not short term image retention.

Can someone specifically talk about a plasma permanenet burn-in horror story? I've seacrhed this thread and can't seem to find a testimonial where this has actually happened.

BTW... no etching since I turned my picture settings down, and I am closely monitoring the 1st 100 hours.

Thanks in advance

I'd like (or not like) to say that my LCD (I know, it's theoretically impossible) has permanent burn-in on it.

Back in April of last year, I posted the following, complete with an image I took of the "burn-in" or "image retention".

Originally posted by JuiceRocket
I use an HP2025 LCD, and I have burn-in where my windows task bar is. I have two rigs hooked up to my monitor, both use different task bars, and one (from what I can see) bar is burned in. I've attached a picture, which doesn't show it all that well. What you can't see in this attached picture is how clearly the icons on my taskbar have been burned into the unit.

I'm guessing this isn't image retention, since I either turn my computer off all weekend, or at the very least turn the monitor off. My unit is on "danger mode" however, brightness is at 100% and contrast at 50%.

-JR

I was given direction on how to get rid of the image retention and followed it, but to no success. The image retention is still there, even though I've since moved my taskbar, have a screensaver that goes on after ever 10 minutes of disuse, etc. After a year of me not having the menu bar in it's original location, using screensavers, and attempting to use a white background to "even" out the "burn-in" I still have the same "burn-in" on my monitor.

For the life of me, I can't get a good picture of this "burn-in" with my camera. I took some photos, but the best result I can get is below. Note that the soft blurry "burn-in" is still present, and you can still see the icons as I noted in my original post.

Even though in these images the "burn-in" may appear different than the "burn-in" I first reported 8 months ago, it's really still the same. For some reason I can't seem to get the camera to pick up what I'm seeing on my LCD.

I don't think I noted this before, but amazingly enough not only are the icons and taskbar outlines "burned in", but you can actually see the red color on one of them.

Here is a new picture I just took below the old picture from my original post, which I believe was on page 5 or 6 of this thread.

Old picture from June 04
http://www.skullface.com/burn-in1.jpg

New picture from April 05
http://www.skullface.com/burn-in2.jpg


-JR

Maybe everyone's following the advice on this thread, so it's not happening. Or, all the 24/7-plasma-running bar owners with burn-in are still sleeping. Or, plasmas haven't been 'mainstream' long enough for it to have occured. Hopefully, by the time someone posts their experience w/ burn-in, they'll have newer better cheaper technology so we can all unsubscribe from this thread.

> Anyone out there who's actually had real, permanent plasma burn-in? If so, under what conditions?

Yep, I do. Well, my plasma does. :) Check out the pics:

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=275013&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

Keep in mind:

1 - my plasma is a Pioneer 505HD, which is an early generation.
2 - I bought it from a company I worked at, where it was used for at least *2 years* as a computer monitor in a 24x7 network op center, showing basically the same web site all of the time. You couldn't abuse a plasma more if you tried.
3 - phosphor bloom caused by overheating was a bigger problem than the burn-in; I largely solved this by replacing the built-in fans with higher capacity ones, and turning the brightness down a bit, although it still shows up occasionally.

It probably had 10000-15000 hours on it when I got it, and I've probably used it another 3000-4000 hours, and it still looks great. The burn-in is occasionally distracting, but most of the time is barely noticeable.

Unfortunately, I think I have burn-in...

I purchased a Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY from Visual Apex back in November '04. I had read how the new plasmas really had fixed the burn-in issue and wasn't really worried about it. I ran Avia and reduced the contrast/brightness/etc. and just watched as I would with a regular TV. I watched a variety of 16:9 and 4:3 material. It seems, however, as if I watched more 4:3 or HDTV programming with the black bars because I have a noticeable area on my display on the left and right that matches where the black bars would normally be. They are really noticeable during the white bar sweep in the screen saver.

I was thinking about trying to fix the problem by displaying black 4:3 material with white bars during the day while no one is watching to try to even everything out. What do you guys think? Any other ideas?

Originally posted by Davey
Unfortunately, I think I have burn-in...

I purchased a Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY from Visual Apex back in November '04. I had read how the new plasmas really had fixed the burn-in issue and wasn't really worried about it. I ran Avia and reduced the contrast/brightness/etc. and just watched as I would with a regular TV. I watched a variety of 16:9 and 4:3 material. It seems, however, as if I watched more 4:3 or HDTV programming with the black bars because I have a noticeable area on my display on the left and right that matches where the black bars would normally be. They are really noticeable during the white bar sweep in the screen saver.


This scares me... Does this mean that if I get a 7UY screen and watch a bunch of 2.35:1 movies, that I may have a burn in area on the top and bottom of the image??

- paul

I think my problem was that I wasn't aware of the 100 hour break-in period where the plasma is so sensitive to burn-in. Then there's the additional 900 hours that I need to be careful. From what I've read in this thread everything should be OK after the initial 1000 hours. But I also read in this thread that burn-in wasn't really an issue with the newer plasmas ;).

Isn't your 7UY the latest model?

Will the black bars on widescreen format DVD;s (top and bottom) cause burn-ins on plasma tv's ?

Noone has reported such a problem that I'm aware of. Burnin is way overblown in any case.

So you mean to say, nobody has reported any problems with those bars. So I can safely put that on ? Only 4:3 side bars on left and right for extended hours could possibly cause burn-in ..

I have set my DVD player to 16:9, and when i view widescreen format dvd's i can still see a small thick layer of black bars on top and bottom. I switch to Panasonic Auto mode and it clears that out (Full/Just/Normal modes all of them do show the top and bottom bars)...

My understanding of the current state of plasma was that the latest ones hardly suffer any burnin due to increases Xenon gas and reduced Neon gas. Is this true?

Greetings AVS! First of all, I want to thank all the fine users here for their help. I've lurked here for several years and have learned quite a bit.

Anyway, I'm wondering if someone here can help us. We just purchased a floor-model plasma. It looked fine in the store, but when we brought it home, there's a pattern around the edges. It sort of looks like a combination of 4:3 and 2.35:1 burn in, but it's not as geometrically straight as I'd expect. I have taken a picture of it. The pattern is generally not visible when watching TV, but something's clearly there. What is it, and is there anything I can do?

Originally posted by wsiler
My understanding of the current state of plasma was that the latest ones hardly suffer any burnin due to increases Xenon gas and reduced Neon gas. Is this true?

That was my understanding also, but I've definately got something on my 7UY and I'm at ~800 hours.

Originally posted by Miniacs
Greetings AVS! First of all, I want to thank all the fine users here for their help. I've lurked here for several years and have learned quite a bit.

Anyway, I'm wondering if someone here can help us. We just purchased a floor-model plasma. It looked fine in the store, but when we brought it home, there's a pattern around the edges. It sort of looks like a combination of 4:3 and 2.35:1 burn in, but it's not as geometrically straight as I'd expect. I have taken a picture of it. The pattern is generally not visible when watching TV, but something's clearly there. What is it, and is there anything I can do?

That looks like what I've got. :(

Originally posted by Davey
That looks like what I've got. :(

hmm. Well, I guess that rules it out as a Fujitsu quirk. Hopefully someone here can help us.

Hey all,

I haven't posted in quite some time but I wanted to write this post to give a boost of confidence in my 7UY. Over the past 3 months I've become an xbox live addict and I've been playing Halo2 online almost every day for about 3 hours or so. I play mostly a game called "team slayer" in which the radar and the team score remain in the same place on the screen for the entire match (usually about 15 minutes at a time).

After these few months of playing, I'm yet to see any signs of burn in of any of these static elements that are on screen during the matches. I was really worried at first and wouldn't play any games on my 7UY, but after a few hundred hours of break in I'm off and running and now I don't really think twice about it.

So far so good - no signs of burn in or even image retention. I love my 7UY and it still looks just as good as the day I bought it.

Well, after a week of no improvement, we exchanged the Fujitsu for a new Pioneer. We're going to be very careful with the new plasma, and hopefully it will last us a long time.

Originally posted by Davey
Unfortunately, I think I have burn-in...

I purchased a Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY from Visual Apex back in November '04. I had read how the new plasmas really had fixed the burn-in issue and wasn't really worried about it. I ran Avia and reduced the contrast/brightness/etc. and just watched as I would with a regular TV. I watched a variety of 16:9 and 4:3 material. It seems, however, as if I watched more 4:3 or HDTV programming with the black bars because I have a noticeable area on my display on the left and right that matches where the black bars would normally be. They are really noticeable during the white bar sweep in the screen saver.

I was thinking about trying to fix the problem by displaying black 4:3 material with white bars during the day while no one is watching to try to even everything out. What do you guys think? Any other ideas?

were you using any of the built in screen protections? wobble? side-bars? wipes?

Sam

Originally posted by wsiler
My understanding of the current state of plasma was that the latest ones hardly suffer any burnin due to increases Xenon gas and reduced Neon gas. Is this true?

I think that the manufacturers are using numerous factors to claim these improved lifespans and burn-in prevention. They factor in the use of screen savers, picture shifting, automatic brightness controls and various auto-dimming and power saving features as part of the reason for these dramatically improved claims. It isn't solely improvements in the glass panels themselves that give them these higher figures.

Originally posted by smarsh66
were you using any of the built in screen protections? wobble? side-bars? wipes?

I was using wobble. I used the gray sidebars about 50% of the time. I'm not sure how the wipes are supposed to work automatically, so I did do them for brief periods of time before I turned off my plasma at night. I watched a lot of HDTV material that was sent as 4:3 with black sidebars so none of these screensaver techniques did anything -- you can't even change the aspect when viewing HD material. I, unfortunately, didn't worry about it because of all of the "improvements" I had read about :(.

A question I have that no one has answered yet is -- does anyone think that I should try to "age" the sidebars to try and catch up with the 4:3 area by displaying a black 4:3 area and white sidebars for an extended period of time while I'm not watching it (maybe at night)? I'm currently at about 850 hours, BTW.

humm, that's troubling..... although in the manual it still shows that one should be careful not to view side-bared material excessively (but, of course, they don't really say how much is *to* much)...

Don't know for sure on the aging question, but it sounds like a reasonable approach. perhaps just viewing full images for the foreseeable future (if possible) could be better...

good luck!

Sam

I think i have some burn in... ive been playing a lot of games on my panny pd50 plasma, and one of the games don't complelely fill the screen. It leaves like a 1inch border on the left and right of the screen. It seems now that those borders are consistently a little bit darker than the display material...

help!

Any way you can stretch the game to full screen? Does the border go away after time? How many hours playing that specific game? How about tossing that $50 game?

Shouldn't the borders be a bit **lighter** (i.e. brighter) than the center display, to indicate less-used (and less aged) phosphors?

--Ernie

Does reducing brightness actually help prevent burn-in?

Most advices I have seen say reducing both contrast and brightness to help prevent burn-in. I understand the part about contrast, which reduces the difference between the brightness of the bright parts and dark parts of the picture, which should reduce uneven usage of the 'screen elements'.

But for brightness, it just adjusts the overall brightness of the entire screen while keeping the brightness difference between various parts of the screen the same. So, the uneveness of the usage of the 'screen elements' is the same, no matter what brightness amount is used. So, why would lowering brightness prevent burn-in, or does it not?

Does anyone know if the Panny 37PD25U has a white screen sweep
function available for reducing/cleaning up image retention? I've seen it mentioned here but it seems to be from the owners of the commercial units, not consumer. I've looked thru the manual and screen menus but have not found any references. Maybe a service menu item??

As has been said by many others, this is a great forum for learning/sharing all things HD. Thanks to all for putting your time into it for us new to the experience.

tgb741

What Plasma TVs are guaranteed against Burn in?

Originally posted by tgb741
Does anyone know if the Panny 37PD25U has a white screen sweep
function available for reducing/cleaning up image retention?

It does not. Only the commercial units have this.

Originally posted by bobmcclune
What Plasma TVs are guaranteed against Burn in?

There isn't a phosphor based display unit that is guaranteed against burn-in.

-JR

It seems like the "burn-in" everyone is talking about is actually uneven phosphor wear. I've seen burn-in on a Ms. Pacman Arcade Machine where the image can been seen on the screen even when the power is completely off. To me, this is real "burn-in" and is different from uneven phosphor wear.

Can the real "burn-in" actually happen on plasmas?

Originally posted by abeautifulmind
Will the black bars on widescreen format DVD;s (top and bottom) cause burn-ins on plasma tv's ?

Technically, any black bars would contribute to uneven wear of the phoshors. However, whether the uneven wear becomes noticable depends on how often black bars are used. Most here don't view enough with black bars to make a difference. I would imagine that in order to notice, you would have to view black bars over 50% of the time.

After reading this hole thread I need someone to clarify this for me: some people says that you need to view your plasma for 30.000-60.000 hours to loose 50% of bightness (manufacturers are telling this to us also) and that translates in several years of normal (3-4 hours per day) viewing. Because of this sound impossible to believe that if you use to watch channels in the 4:3 format for example 50% of your time, in very few months you will find watchable signs of wear in the areas that use to be filled with images against the others that remains black , IM not telling that this is a lie BUT does not make sense so . . . am I missing something here? maybe wear is not constant over the life of the screen?

Originally posted by jorsan
am I missing something here? maybe wear is not constant over the life of the screen?

Wear is not constant. It is steeper at the beginning and then constantly levels out over time.

I haven't heard much talk about grey bars. I would like to watch SD in 4:3 with grey bars. Has anyone experienced burn in using grey bars?

Originally posted by GTalbert
I haven't heard much talk about grey bars. I would like to watch SD in 4:3 with grey bars. Has anyone experienced burn in using grey bars?

I have no experience but in theory, grey bars should prevent uneven wear for the most part. You will have to play with the level of brightness on the grey to match the brightness of what you watch. White bars will probably over wear the outside in relation to the picture since average TV view is far from white most of the time. Use an orbiter along with it to prevent any sort of line burning in between the picture and grey bars.

orbiter?

Originally posted by jorsan
orbiter?

It's a screen saver feature built into a lot of different plasmas that shifts static images by a few pixels every few minutes. It's also called a wobbler on some sets.

Thanks

Hi all, my 507uy has the White Bar Scroll function, but the manual doesn't really say how it should be used. Can you guys give me some advice on how you use it? Is it a good way to break-in a new screen? Should I leave it on all night? TIA

Hi all, my 507uy has the White Bar Scroll function, but the manual doesn't really say how it should be used. Can you guys give me some advice on how you use it? Is it a good way to break-in a new screen? Should I leave it on all night? TIAI set mine up to scroll for 1 minute every 30 minutes. I left it this way for about the first 200 hours, now its setup to scroll for 1 minute every 70 minutes. It can be intrusive sometimes and like clockwork it will always enter right at the height of a great scene in a movie or tv show, but LET IT RUN, it's worth it if it will save you from burn-in. :D

I'm getting a 42" plasma tv, and I was wondering if there are any burnin DVDs suggested (maybe video equivalent of white noise), to run on the TV during the initial high risk phase?

Thanks,

chucky

Someone in the Master Burnin thread said:

WHAT IS "BURN-IN"

Typically, "burn-in" is defined as an uneven wear of a phosphor based display unit (Plasma and CRT for example). It is the phenomena of being able to "see" the remnants of something that was being "displayed" even though you are watching totally different content. It is not image retention which goes away.



In the other thread Q of Banditz said:
9.) In some instances, at least with DVI on certain televisions, a black ghosting issue is apparent. What this look like is essentially a breif and very faint after image that occurs during a chapter change or some other scene change on a totally black screen. Not ulike dithering on a PC.


Are both of these talking about the same thing???? or is it two different thing?? I'm getting confused here. Are they talking about Image retention or what?

Which one is bad? Do most people get damages from Burn-in? I hear that they rarely get it... so I take it the "ghosting image" is not caused by burn-in, rather it's a typical image retention? *Clarify*

I think that might be the incorrect use of ghosting.

AFAIK ghosting is applied usually to LCDs where the slower pixel response time creates trails on fast moving objects. The LCD pixles cant keep up with speed of your eyes ability to see motion.

What Q seems to be describing as ghosting, I usually call image retention and is found on emissive devices like plasmas and CRTs. It is definitely related to what can ultimately cause burn-in. It means for whatever reason an image on the device once removed has left a temporary wear inconsistency by overusing one or two colors in that area.

Burn-in = permanent image retention.

ss

Those are different things.

hmm i see. so on a temporary image retention, how long does the ghosting last?

hmm i see. so on a temporary image retention, how long does the ghosting last?

Basically just long enough for you to see it. Half a second at most I would say. It can be very annoying though. The latest LCDs are getting faster, but I have yet to see one completely free of ghosting on fast motion video.

Image retention on a plasma might last a few seconds to permanent(burnt-in.)

ss

It depends what is causing the ghosting. In any case, if there is ghosting in an old source (like old TV camera that lags), it might be apparent on any display. Likewise for analog multipath ghosting consistantly left or right the same distance from stationary or moving image

Consistant LCD ghosting would only be noticeable if the "actual" response time of display or whatever is converting the resolution or interlace is slower than 1/60 second (16.67ms). I don't even notice any ghosting in 60 fps high contrast gameplay on a 25ms LCD PC monitor/TV, possibly because partial brightness/color changes are faster than that.

For a CRT the phosphors have to remain bright enough for the scan time (1/30 second for older interlaced TV) and fade from there. But the only time you should notice that would be high contrast movement (like scrolling text) or if turning the TV off in a dark room (the screen glows for a little while). Progressive displays or that convert interlace to progressive would have faster phosphors that fade faster.

I have no experience with plasma, but I imagine its phophors are faster than a progressive CRT, since they can remain on until they electronically changed instead of having to linger for the next electron gun pass like a CRT.

oh crap, i would have to assume I got a "permanent" burn-in wear. This is a new TV, TH-50PHD7UY and it displays a faint ghost image of speedometer/tech analog on the bottom right portion of the display. I was aware of burn-in even before i bought the tv... and i was also told that playing 3D games full screen would be ok too. Well, the racing game I play displays the speedometer and techmeter on the bottom right hand corner on the screen. It's been day 2 and I'm still seeing the ghosting image of it, in the exact same spot. Are you telling me I got a permanent burnin damage????

I can't believe it burned in such short time. I bought this tv about 3 weeks ago. I play that same PC racing game about 1~2 hrs a day, im not even talking several hours!! and i don't even play it everyday!! I kept my entire screen moving with the graphics, almost never left it sit still. Only thing that doesn't move is the speedometer display on bottom right hand corner. And now i got a permanent burned in ghost image of it, exact same spot. you've got to be kidding me..... If I knew the plasma displays are *This* sensitive I would've burned-in entire screen Crap out of it before I do any gaming. I would've been super careful.. well damn, it's too late now.

it might just be ghosting: try running a regular movie for a day or two

it might just be ghosting: try running a regular movie for a day or two
I honestly hope so. well at least you made me feel better. I will try what you said. I just hope that ghosting image goes away.. :(

I honestly hope so. well at least you made me feel better. I will try what you said. I just hope that ghosting image goes away.. :(

keep in mind that a plasma can exhibit more ghosting when new, and is more susceptible to burn-in: hence the 100 hour break-in recommendations

don't run anything but full screen video for a couple of days (follow the break-in procedures found in this thread)

I hope it is just ghosting :)

If I knew the plasma displays are *This* sensitive I would've burned-in entire screen Crap out of it before I do any gaming. I would've been super careful.. well damn, it's too late now.

You might want to read thoroughly and follow the advise, especially the section concerning the break-in period, in the Panasonic Plasma White Paper (http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/pressroom/cont2.asp?Filter=12&cont_id=822)

What does this mean? Where do I find this option in my panny PHD7UY tv?
What to do if you see a ghost image on the screen

In the rare event you begin to see a ghost image on the display, Panasonic has incorporated a built-in “white-bar scroll” feature to assist you. When enabled, the scroll will (in many cases) reduce or eliminate image retention.

I am sbout to buy a new screen, and had initially decided on an LCD because of possibilities of Burn In. After reading this thread, I really have to consider again...

However, I am still a bit afraid after I saw this at Stansted Airport:
Serious Burn IN! (http://www.eirikso.com/2005/04/27/why-you-do-not-want-to-show-static-information-on-a-plasma-screen/)

...or you can tell me that this is a worst case scenario, and that I can be completely relaxed when using my HTPC towards a Plasma...?

_eirikso

I am sbout to buy a new screen, and had initially decided on an LCD because of possibilities of Burn In. After reading this thread, I really have to consider again...

However, I am still a bit afraid after I saw this at Stansted Airport:
Serious Burn IN! (http://www.eirikso.com/2005/04/27/why-you-do-not-want-to-show-static-information-on-a-plasma-screen/)

...or you can tell me that this is a worst case scenario, and that I can be completely relaxed when using my HTPC towards a Plasma...?
I think you will be fine if you do some *good* burn-in during the breakin period. Like has been mentioned burnin the full screen by playing movies for the first couple of hundred hours.

My problem is that i *didn't* burn-in enough, and played PC game that had static image of speedometer/techmeter in the same spot. The link Charlie_Phogg posted is good also.

I can't believe it burned in such short time. I bought this tv about 3 weeks ago. I play that same PC racing game about 1~2 hrs a day, im not even talking several hours!! and i don't even play it everyday!! I kept my entire screen moving with the graphics, almost never left it sit still. Only thing that doesn't move is the speedometer display on bottom right hand corner. And now i got a permanent burned in ghost image of it, exact same spot. you've got to be kidding me..... If I knew the plasma displays are *This* sensitive I would've burned-in entire screen Crap out of it before I do any gaming. I would've been super careful.. well damn, it's too late now.

Noob,

The 7UYhas a negative feature. Try playing the game or at least display the speedometer while on the negative function. Since the burn-in is caused by uneven wear of the pixels, the negative of the exact same image will theoretically even that wear out faster and more effectively than anything else. Like finding the hair of the dog that bit you.

BTW, this should also work with static logos and news tickers. If you see the MSNBC logo burnt in on your screen. Just turn on MSNBC in negative and let it play through the night. The negative will wear the exact opposite pixel colors and should even out the burnt in pixels.

Try it and let me know. I'm interested to see it the theory works.

- Ren

I have a question about burn-in and I couldn't find a definitive answer in the initial post.

I don't want to read the entire thread so here it goes.

I know about burn-in on Plasmas and RP-CRT's, but is it possible to cause burn in on an LCD HDTV? Also, is it possible to cause burn in on a CRT TV such as the TX-R3079WH?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

LCD no, CRT yes.

but is it possible to cause burn in on an LCD HDTV?

Yes. A few avsforum regulars (myself, Mark Rubin, Alan Gouger are the three come to mind) have posted about burn-in (or irreversable image retention) on their LCD tvs. I have it on my HP2025. You can check out pictures in a few posts in this forum.

Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3990114&&#post3990114) and a year later here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5506927&&#post5506927)

Even though it is possible, the numbers of LCD users reporting any sort of image retention is extremely low.

-JR

Update*


so far, I'm making progress, which is a good thing. :)



Been playing movies full screen for straight 3 days. The burnin ghost image is still there, but has been lessened.... definitely not as bad as the first time how it showed up.



Tried the "white box scroll" feature from screensaver in my PHD7UY. Ran it for 1.5 day. I couldn't tell the difference. The ghost image is still there. It hasn't got worse though.



Noob,

The 7UYhas a negative feature. Try playing the game or at least display the speedometer while on the negative function. Since the burn-in is caused by uneven wear of the pixels, the negative of the exact same image will theoretically even that wear out faster and more effectively than anything else. Like finding the hair of the dog that bit you.

BTW, this should also work with static logos and news tickers. If you see the MSNBC logo burnt in on your screen. Just turn on MSNBC in negative and let it play through the night. The negative will wear the exact opposite pixel colors and should even out the burnt in pixels.

Try it and let me know. I'm interested to see it the theory works.

- Ren
renlopez, i think i *may* be getting good news here.

I'm not gonna state the result yet as I'm running the negative in the PC game right now... the same game with speedometer and techmeter displayed. I'll report the *final* result later...... I'm gonna be *closely* observing this.... this is getting very *interesting*

renlopez, i think i *may* be getting good news here.

I'm not gonna state the result yet as I'm running the negative in the PC game right now... the same game with speedometer and techmeter displayed. I'll report the *final* result later...... I'm gonna be *closely* observing this.... this is getting very *interesting*

I'm fairly optimistic for you since it looks like your burn-in is the result of not breaking in the phosphors. The phosphors in the pixels where the speedometer and techmeter are have taken their initial steep decline in brightness which is what is causing the ghost image. The negative image should cause all of the other phosphors to "break in" or wear down to the level of the speedometer.

There is a bit of downside to doing this. You will be accelerating the wear of all your PDP as a whole.

Here is an analogy: In an inkjet printer, the color ink cartridge has separate supplies of Red, Green, and Blue ink. Say you print primarly in blue and as a result, you use up 50% of the blue supply, but only 10% of the red and green. Just to even it out you print some useless red and green documents (negative images). You are left with 40% of all the colors left in the cartridge. The colors are now all evenly used, but you now only have half left.

Good news is if the negative feature works and evens out the wear in all the pixels in your panel, you will be left with a fully "broken-in" screen since you will have gotten over the initial steep decline in brightness. The chance of burn in will be less than it was in the beginning.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

- Ren

Here is "the" final Update:


Running Negatives....... didn't work but instead, made it about 3 times worse. I'm very sad now. Total disastrous.




I finally got the damn pic hosting service so I can actually post some good pics...


This is the game I played before...


http://img49.echo.cx/img49/2692/img09687ks.jpg

As you can see the speedometer/techmeter light is bright and steady.








After running movies full screen for 3 days and screensaver graphics, this is what I get.... very fainted light trace of ghost image on the bottom right portion of the screen. It's almost invisible.
http://img154.echo.cx/img154/7816/beforenegative6jw.jpg








Ran the negatives for gaming. As you can see all the colors are inverted. Ran it for several hours.
http://img154.echo.cx/img154/639/img11019or.jpg




Result, it made it worse. The same spot where the speedometer/techmeter is at, has gotten burned in even more. Now it looks worse in the background desktop screen.

Look at the picture below... The ghost image shows up even more. It looks even worse in real life, not in pics.. I'm looking at my screen right now and it looks disgusting.

http://img154.echo.cx/img154/2653/img12010eg.jpg



http://img154.echo.cx/img154/7426/img12023bs.jpg




I'm not taking anymore theories or guesswork.. my $4100 panny tv got damaged... I can't take any more risks... I think I better stick with the "proven" methods...

I realized that the problem is having "static" image, which can be ANYTHING.. whether it's a shape or color. Not just white light, but any damn colors statically in place WILL cause burn-in damage. This is why negatives method didn't work.


What's more, if I change the background desktop color, it gets worse... I see the ghost image even deeper. I didn't get this problem before I did the negatives. Any background color I changed, i could hardly see the ghost image...

I'm going to stick with the good'ol Fashion playing movies full screen once a while.. I also have lots of High Definition MPEG2/4 video files to view. Looks beautiful on my panny tv. I'm NOT going to do any more burn-in methods.. this will just wear out my tv even more.








.

Noob,

Thanks for the pictures, I would be freaking out if I were you as I am a gamer and think about something like this happening on my 7uy all the time. As I've posted before, I play Halo 2 on my 7uy almost every night about 2-3 hours and so far no burn in of radar or score meters etc.

I think a big part of what contributed to your burn-in/image retention is that you said you just got your plasma and you hooked it up to your pc right away. I broke my set in for 200 hours before watching any 4:3, widescreen, or playing games, i think it really helped a lot. Also, what are your picture settings for your PC input. I make sure none of mine ever go above 0 and my picture still looks great. My settings on the input where I play games are:
Picture: -3
Bright: -4
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -1

Keep us posted, hope you lose that burn-in soon. I know it doesn't help, but you're the first person I've ever heard that had burn in on a Panny 7 series.

I have to say - I've been staring at those pictures and looking at the lower right hand corner - and I see absolutely nothing. I guess I'm just blind, but when I tell you I can see no ghost image or burn WHATSOEVER, I'm not kidding.

Maybe it's me, but I really don't see anything at all. :confused:

Yes, I definitely see it. You need to look at the picture with the game on the screen first so you know what to look for. You should see the circles then in the lower right, but it is more visible on the first blank screen pic for me.

I'm really sorry about the advice on using the negative. Trying to be optimistic, did you take the picture immediately after playing the game in negative? If so, it might be temporary image retention and may go away after a couple of hours of fullscreen video.

I wonder why the negative feature is even included on the 7UY if it doesn't work.

Good luck. I hope it's just temporary image retention. Keep us updated, and sorry again if it turns out to be permanent.

I'm really sorry about the advice on using the negative. Trying to be optimistic, did you take the picture immediately after playing the game in negative? If so, it might be temporary image retention and may go away after a couple of hours of fullscreen video.

I wonder why the negative feature is even included on the 7UY if it doesn't work.

Good luck. I hope it's just temporary image retention. Keep us updated, and sorry again if it turns out to be permanent.
i took the picture about 30min later. I checked it again several hours later. Same level of ghost image.

it's ok... i can't blame you for this.. you were trying to help, and i appreciate that. I just hoped this will work..... and I too thought this is a good idea. Just sad that it didn't work. :(




The best thing to do now on is to "not" running that game at all. Or turn off the speedometer/techmeter analog display... because that's the only thing giving me ghost image, nothing else.


Yes, I definitely see it. You need to look at the picture with the game on the screen first so you know what to look for. You should see the circles then in the lower right, but it is more visible on the first blank screen pic for me.
yeah.. and not only that, i can even read the RPM numbers(1, 2, 3, 4, etc) off the techmeter display. You can see it much more in real life, these pics aren't that good.



All of my brightness, color, tint settings have been running at 0.

I keep hearing burn-in issues have improved, but to what degree? By this I mean, what have they implemented to counteract this - automatic standby, pixelization movement, screensavers, etc?

I'm looking into getting a new TV - and my biggest concern with Plasma displays is obviously the burn-in, and I want to use this in conjunction with my computer. I do a lot of gaming, where there are usually static bars on the bottom that don't move at all. For this reason alone, I've strongly considered a RPTV, most likely a DLP.

Any info is appreciated.

Different names with different manufacturers. With Pannasonic it's called "Wobble" it slitely moves the picture around. You'll find allot of answer in the BurnIn Master thread, stickied at the top of this forum's page.

come on man ;) burn in questions go here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=444258

I just bought a panny 42pd50u edtv.........I have read in the thread about different features that different tv's have to avoid burn-in i.e. moving the picture slightly, white bars. etc...I can 't find any info on this for my tv....does anyone know if this tv has any of those features?

Sorry, didn't even see it.

Thanks fellas.

Zoglog, your point is??? The thread you referenced is the one we are in...

Mark

Zoglog, your point is??? The thread you referenced is the one we are in...

Mark

Looks like Zoglog made the remard before the thread was merged with this one.

I'm trying hard to make the HD plunge, alas, the burn-in issue is the snag. I had convinced myself to steer clear of plasma, and go with a DLP. But I'm *really* trying to talk myself into a plasma--for the better picture & space saving ability to hang. But I can't pull the trigger knowing that I might drop $3000+ on an item that will be tainted in a months time.

This thread seems to go in circles, which I suppose is the result of a topic which does the same. Some folks say "nah, burn-in's not an issue. Go for it!" Yet some folks, like Noob above, have horror stories. I scanned much of the thread already, but didn't care to go through all 17 pages looking for the answers to my questions.

My questions:

1)are the latest plasmas *really* less susceptible to burn-in?
2)are certain brands better at resisting this cancer?
3)are network bugs a danger? I've heard that even the more translucents ones pose a threat. True?
4)Not a gamer so this isn't a concern. I'm mainly concerned with watching 4:3 in 4:3 as I refuse to streeetch an image (yugh). Is the grey-bar technology really *that* helpful, or simply delaying the inevetable burn?
5)If proper break-in has occured, is burn-in a non-issue or just less of one.

Thanks. First Post.

1)are the latest plasmas *really* less susceptible to burn-in?

Panny 7UY claim near CRT-level tolerance to burn-in. Noob will disagree.

FWIW, here are my opinions on some of your questions. From reading this thread, there are no absolutes on this matter.

4)Not a gamer so this isn't a concern. I'm mainly concerned with watching 4:3 in 4:3 as I refuse to streeetch an image (yugh). Is the grey-bar technology really *that* helpful, or simply delaying the inevetable burn?


Grey bar along with Wobbler should help. You will really have to guess on the brightness of the grey to match phosphor wear of the middle of the screen. Most on the board say as long as you do the proper break in and also vary the viewing with full screen image it should be fine.

I'm of the same opinion with stretching 4:3 (yuck!). I will watch everything with grey bars. When I am not watching, I will make my wife watch stretched since she does not mind the distortion.

5)If proper break-in has occured, is burn-in a non-issue or just less of one.

Burn in will still be an issue. Just less of one.

ren, thanks for the response to questions that I'm sure have been beat into the ground. I'm not familure with the term CRT though.

Uggh, I don't know what to do. I'm thinking DLP simply b/c the only, "I wish I would've" would be b/c of something minute (like not being able to hang, or a slightly less crisp image, for example). Whereas with a plasma the "wish I would've" would equate to $$. I'd never live down burning-in an image.

Did I just make my decision?

Are you happy with your plasma? How long have you had it? Any burn-in issues?

FWIW, the Samsung 42" DLP is atop my list. Any other similar suggestions (not to derail the thread).

Why does such a fun component have to be so difficult to decide on? :p

Just passed the 100 hr mark this weekend (8 days) and have notched up (in Cinema mode) Picture and Brightness to +10 respectively.
I have found that running overnight different DVD chapter loops in zoom mode works like a charm.

Hey all, great forum. Just got a new Samsung 42in plasma screen. The contrast and brightness are on a scale of 0-100, 50 is the factory preset. What would be the optimal settings for breaking this thing in? Leaving them at 50 okay and then adjusting as necessary in a week or two, or any other thoughts?

I'm back. It's been a while and of course... i still have the burn-in ghost image, light though so it's not to the point where it bothers me bad enough.


Here is my conclusion, and as many of you know, static images for Plasma, huge no-no. Static image of any kind, whether it's color or shape or anything.


It has been proven that the Plasma TVs are "not" recommended for video gaming. If you somehow can maintain absolute non-static image in games you will be fine, but that's gonna be reaaallllllll toughy. It "can" be done though.


Watching movies full screen seems to be the best method of breaking-in AND even after the breakin period. The best solution to keep the Plasma a perfect even wear is to play movies at full screen with mild level of contrast/brightness.



Hey all, great forum. Just got a new Samsung 42in plasma screen. The contrast and brightness are on a scale of 0-100, 50 is the factory preset. What would be the optimal settings for breaking this thing in? Leaving them at 50 okay and then adjusting as necessary in a week or two, or any other thoughts?
If you read the previous page you will see this guy posted the info with the url... This has real good information about how to "take care of your Plasma". Read the quote below....
You might want to read thoroughly and follow the advise, especially the section concerning the break-in period, in the Panasonic Plasma White Paper (http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/pressroom/cont2.asp?Filter=12&cont_id=822)
I'm sure the original poster moderator "markrubin" in this thread does have very good info(:)) about breaking-in and burn-in issues.. but also the url posted by Charlie_Phogg above is really good. MUST read it.... you'll be SORRY to miss it. This will answer many of noobies(including myself) questions....





http://img296.echo.cx/img296/9887/img09936ua.th.jpg (http://img296.echo.cx/my.php?image=img09936ua.jpg) http://img94.echo.cx/img94/4406/img09922am.th.jpg (http://img94.echo.cx/my.php?image=img09922am.jpg) http://img126.echo.cx/img126/5061/img12114ce.th.jpg (http://img126.echo.cx/my.php?image=img12114ce.jpg) http://img126.echo.cx/img126/7114/img12032ut.th.jpg (http://img126.echo.cx/my.php?image=img12032ut.jpg)

Folks, I have a fancy new PDP 5050HD (Pioneer), and have now noticed all of those damned channel icons and am a bit scared. Especially channels like "pbs kids" that has the logo up for up to 20 minutes straight, no commercials. Is this a problem for a brand new, un-broken in plasma? Is that a problem for a broken in plasma?

Am I just being a freak?

Chris

Here is my conclusion, and as many of you know, static images for Plasma, huge no-no. Static image of any kind, whether it's color or shape or anything.


It has been proven that the Plasma TVs are "not" recommended for video gaming. If you somehow can maintain absolute non-static image in games you will be fine, but that's gonna be reaaallllllll toughy. It "can" be done though

I understand where you're coming from, but I play hours of games on my plasma daily and have had no problems with any sort of image retention or burn-in. Just last night I spent over 3 hours straight trying to get some golds in PGR2. NSFU was another game I'd play for long periods of time, also Ninja Gaiden, Rallysport...all games with some pretty bad HUD elements.

I often pause my cable and leave it sitting there for a good 15-30 minutes, big white bar and all, and still no image retention or burn-in.

In my experience, as long as you drop your brightness and contrast (I did this to provide myself a more realistic image and get the best picture quality possible), you'll be fine. I think there are many plasma owners who play a solid amount of video games on their units without adverse effects. Of course, as you mentioned, you should be wary during the break-in period and tone down your out-of-the-box "torch" settings.

-JR

Noob,

Juice and I are in the same boat...I play that game (NFS2, btw nice bank) and have not experienced the speed/tach burning-in/retaining.

Then again my set was pro calibrated and the settings are at 0 with the brightness at -25...yep, -25 on a scale of -30 to +30.

Keep running full screen content and you may <<<hopefully>>>find that the burn-in/retention will continue to dissipate.