From what I've read, satellite compress the signals more than cable companies. Your 25' cable might be playing into it a little bit, but digital is digital...monster cables are a rip off. You could actually buy from Monoprice and be even cheaper than Radio Shack's. I used Radio Shack's HDMI cable for a little while, but my wife is the same way about cabling so when I found some "transparent" cables I had to install those (Wal-Mart- Phillips). Can't comment on any of your other issues, but I sure there are some guys who can.

Is it true that LCD tv's are suceptible to burn in? I don't have on, but when I set my buddie's Samsung LCD tv up it sated "watching 4:3 aspect material with grey bars on the side can cause permanet burn in if not changed with in 2-hours". I was like "what?" My Hitachi RP CRT would not even get burn in that short amount of time.

Is this really true? I know my flat screen LCD at work stays "static" for hours with no problems.

Also, the picture "blurred" and "pixelated" so bad during action scenes that I could not believe he spent $3000-$4500 on this 42" LCD. I felt bad for my friend and simply kept my mouth shut. However, on images with little to no action it put out a decent picture...once set up the best I could.

To beatles6,

Try these settings for the the Panny:

Picture Mode: Standard
Picture: +22
Brightness: +8
Color: -1
Tint: -4
Sharpness: -14
Color Temp: Warm
Enhanced Black Level: Off

Let me know how this looks.

OK - i've had my nec 50xr5 since January 2006 or so (8 months) and i'm in love with the picture, but highly annoyed with IR.

First thing i did when i got the set was turn down the brightness and contrast - calibrated with AVIA and then turned it down a bit more. I was very careful for 500 - 600 hours - used the break-in DVD and ran it for weeks. I've now got 1012 hours on my set and it still suffers from IR (i'm hoping it's not burn-in).

I mean - can clearly see the NESN HD logo and "BOS" in the upper left corner. I typically do not run the burn in DVD after watching a game, but i usually flip to a channel without logos and leave it there for a few minutes at least after watching a game.

Will this ever get any better? I am now running the burn-in DVD and the logo and the BOS seem to be fading - i think this is going to be an all nighter again. I wish that NESN would lower the brightness/contrast of their logo or do some sort of sweep more frequently. What i really wish is there was an option to shut off the scoreboard on the top of the screen! Has anyone tried to get in touch with NESN?

(I'm assuming this is IR and not burn-in... i may have to watch my next game in negative!)

OK - i've had my nec 50xr5 since January 2006 or so (8 months) and i'm in love with the picture, but highly annoyed with IR.

First thing i did when i got the set was turn down the brightness and contrast - calibrated with AVIA and then turned it down a bit more. I was very careful for 500 - 600 hours - used the break-in DVD and ran it for weeks. I've now got 1012 hours on my set and it still suffers from IR (i'm hoping it's not burn-in).

I mean - can clearly see the NESN HD logo and "BOS" in the upper left corner. I typically do not run the burn in DVD after watching a game, but i usually flip to a channel without logos and leave it there for a few minutes at least after watching a game.

Will this ever get any better? I am now running the burn-in DVD and the logo and the BOS seem to be fading - i think this is going to be an all nighter again. I wish that NESN would lower the brightness/contrast of their logo or do some sort of sweep more frequently. What i really wish is there was an option to shut off the scoreboard on the top of the screen! Has anyone tried to get in touch with NESN?

(I'm assuming this is IR and not burn-in... i may have to watch my next game in negative!)

What the hell is NESN?

Don't know what to tell you. My 42" Hitachi never has IR during any sports on television. In fact, the only time I see IR is when playing NCAA 07 Football on 360. It takes about a day to go away. I find that annoying, but I can't see it unless I'm less than a foot from the screen and it's pure black.

What the hell is NESN?

Don't know what to tell you. My 42" Hitachi never has IR during any sports on television. In fact, the only time I see IR is when playing NCAA 07 Football on 360. It takes about a day to go away. I find that annoying, but I can't see it unless I'm less than a foot from the screen and it's pure black.

NESN = New England Sports Network (broadcast 90% of the sox games).

I left mine running with the burn-in DVD last night and it was mostly better this morning (can still see a faint "BOS" in the top left). I'm hoping it will be better in the next 24 hours. Totally annoying.
The picture quality of the NEC is amazing, but i really find the IR annoying.

Hello,

Sorry to post here if not the right thread, it says all burn-in questions, so here goes.

My brother purchased a Philips LCD Model 30PF9946D/37 from Costco.

It will give a ghost or burn-in image anytime closed caption, weather channel or any banner is on the screen. It takes 1 day to recover from a 1 hour exposure to a banner like this.

I did some searches and found some hints to use contrast and brightness, and also reference to firmware updates and anti-aging circuits on new models, but it seems kind of strange to see such a problem on a small LCD.

Anyone familiar with this kind of thing? Any idea of what causes it? I thought burn-in was more of a Plasma or CRT issue, not LCD?

He called tech support but they would not talk to him because its out of warranty, they want $15 to talk now. He has had the problem since day 1, but is busy and traveling all the time and just now hit his limit on the problem.

Do you think there is a fix with a tech service call or should he just box it back up and take it back to Costco?

Any ideas appreciated.

Thanks.

Hey guys,

I was wondering what are my chances of burn-in on a plasma after the 600 hour mark? I should be close to the 700 hours soon, and I just recently bought an Xbox 360. I am a gamer, and I been playing PS2 and Gamecube on the plasma and hadn't had any issues of burn-in or IR for that matter but I always limited my gameplay to around 10 hours a week.

But lets just say I play video games for a maximum of 20 hours a week and probably watch tv around 12-15 hours a week. And the games I play usually have some sort of static bar. I play for a maximum of 3 hours in a row in any session before I just get bored and turn it to watch some TV or go to bed. Should I vary my viewing habbits?

I have Panasonic 50" 500u model and I also used pretty high contrast when playing video games (contrast =20 ).

I play about 15 hours of games a week on my Panny, and I had no IR issues until the new NCAA and Madden games came out. I do get IR after every game because the scoring tickers stay on. However, it's extremely faint, not visible from my viewing area, and does go away. What's more, I've seen it fade just from having the set off (not completely, but reduced in intensity).

The key is if you get any changes in the static bar. The Madden and NCAA tickers are on almost constantly, and they have white borders, a double whammy. But I've never had any problems with games like Oblivion or GRAW because there are cut scenes that come in regularly. I would probably stay away from the XBL arcade games as those remain pretty static.

Also, as for 4:3, I normally don't watch TV in that mode, but I do watch DVDs of TV shows in 4:3, and have never noticed any retention issues after a couple of hours. I wouldn't abuse it, but you should be good.

I got a little paranoid when I saw the NCAA ticker retained, but given that it fades, I'm not really worried. A) I can't see it unless I'm up close and the TV has no signal and B) it will go away completely with some TV/down time. Combined with all the stuff I've read about current plasmas, I'm not really worried about burn in. Would I play Madden for 8 hours? No. But a game or two a few days a week probably isn't going to damage my set.

Hey Guys
I just started a petiton for transparent tickers in sports video games (especially EA). Please take a moment to sign it, I'd appreciate it greatly. I'm so annoyed by the Madden 07 ticker. I finished playing yesterday after < 3 hours and I can still see the stupid EA logo (though like stated 1000X before it's only noticable when there's no signal, but still, I don't want to play again until it's completely gone - it's been 16 hours so I'm a bit frustrated). I don't know how effective these things are, but it's worth a shot! Thanks

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Transparent/index.html


I not only signed the petition, but posted it in the Xbox forums

I not only signed the petition, but posted it in the Xbox forums

Thanks a lot! I'm really bad at this kind of thing but this just infuriates me. I've been trying to get the stupid EA logo off my set now for the past 40 hours. It's fading, but this shouldn't happen, especially when they had it right last year. I love my plasma and I should be able to enjoy EA Sports game whenever and for however long I want. No other game I have cause this type of problem IR occurs, 30 minutes of normal viewing and it's gone. Currently my set is broadcasting snow while I'm work. This will be happening for 10 hours. If it's not gone by the time I get home from work I'm going to scream!!!

I never play games on my plasma. I have a 19in widescreen LCD I use for it instead. No chance of burn-in. I'm one of those guys who believes plasmas and games just don't mix well. It is nice to hear so many people talk about how much they play games without problems though, gives me hope that burn-in is becoming a thing of the past. But every now and then someone comes along and talks about a logo burnt in or a score ticker, and I get nervous again.

Hi. Is it a good idea to play my Xbox 360 on the Panny 600U? And I heard some Plasma's have "Burn Protection", does this one have it?

Hi. Is it a good idea to play my Xbox 360 on the Panny 600U? And I heard some Plasma's have "Burn Protection", does this one have it?

From what I've seen in the past month on my Hitachi, you're cool unless you're playing Madden of NCAA. 1-2 games in a row MAX, then switch to something else. I made the mistake of playing 5 in a row and was stuck with the EA logo for nearly 40 hours.

Should I worry if have have some IR left on my screen? Will the damage my panal in the future or is it just temporary?

Hey guys! I recently bought a samsung plasma; in the very first page of the manual it warns about watching static images or 4:3 content "for a long time" (i wonder how much is a long time to them) but it says nothing about letterbox movies...
did they just forgot to put it in or is it not a problem like the gray side bars are?

thanks!

Hey guys! I recently bought a samsung plasma; in the very first page of the manual it warns about watching static images or 4:3 content "for a long time" (i wonder how much is a long time to them) but it says nothing about letterbox movies...did they just forgot to put it in or is it not a problem like the gray side bars are?

Theoretically, it's just as much an issue as the left and right vertical bars, but I think it's omitted from much of the product literature because it's not as likely for most people to watch as much programming in the same aspect ratio greater than 16:9. All standard definition programming is the same 4:3, but some movies are 1.8:1, some 2.0:1, some 2.35:1, and so forth. If you mix up your viewing of widescreen movies with some full-screen programming, you're probably going to be fine, but I have seen it suggested in this forum to be just as careful with horizontal bars as vertical bars during your break-in period. Enjoy!

Theoretically, it's just as much an issue as the left and right vertical bars, but I think it's omitted from much of the product literature because it's not as likely for most people to watch as much programming in the same aspect ratio greater than 16:9. All standard definition programming is the same 4:3, but some movies are 1.8:1, some 2.0:1, some 2.35:1, and so forth. If you mix up your viewing of widescreen movies with some full-screen programming, you're probably going to be fine, but I have seen it suggested in this forum to be just as careful with horizontal bars as vertical bars during your break-in period. Enjoy!
Break-in mean nothing to me since I just wanted to enjoy my plasma ( Hitachi 42HDS52A) from hour one. First DVD was 'Lawrence of Arabia' (horizontal bars); then a 4:3 B & W classic on TCM with black side bars followed by repeated viewings of "Pulp Fiction" (horizontal bars) in both its entirety and favorite scenes; 'Kill Bill II' (horizontal bars) and many others –mostly DVDs. No IR or burn-in so may be the pixel orbiting doing the trick My only gripe is having to switch gray (default) side bars to black every time I switch to 4:3 content. On the other hand, at a restaurant the other night another brand plasma had ESPN burnt into lower right corner and same with plasma at another eatery. But they keep them set to ESPN. So maybe worst IR or burn-in risk is station logos. If mine ever suffers burns in ------- I'm going to file a test case in Small Claims Court due to cost of set less than small claims maximum. If Plasma's can't be enjoyed without restrictions –then they shouldn't be on the market until burn-in flaw resolved.

slannes

Break-in mean nothing to me ... No IR or burn-in so may be the pixel orbiting doing the trick My only gripe is having to switch gray (default) side bars to black every time I switch to 4:3 content.

how many hours are on your screen at this point?

If mine ever suffers burns in ------- I'm going to file a test case in Small Claims Court due to cost of set less than small claims maximum. If Plasma's can't be enjoyed without restrictions –then they shouldn't be on the market until burn-in flaw resolved.

slannes

good luck with that Court Case, let us know how i goes...
:rolleyes:

how many hours are on your screen at this point?



good luck with that Court Case, let us know how i goes...
:rolleyes:

I'm not a lawyer, but couldn't you bring up a suit against the failure of a "anti-burn" in system to do specifically what it claims to do?

how many hours are on your screen at this point?



good luck with that Court Case, let us know how i goes...
:rolleyes:
I'd say roughly passed the 100 hours mark or getting close. Have had since March. Don't keep track of hours because I completely ignored break-in as never had to with any CRT set and did not intend to with plasma. No compromises. If set gets burn-in as a result of doing what I bought it for –watching it in whatever mode content producers chose ------------ not in mode (stretching or whatever) manufacturer deems required to protect from burn-in or IR. Only precaution I took was pixel shifting mode—nothing else. Thus, if it suffers burn-in and warranty denied ----------- then its up to the Small Claims Court Judge to decide if black side bars were used 15.1% or 14.99% of the time. Or, to decide if defendant's 15% limit as a warranty out is calculated as accumulative before or after watching other content. Ridiculous! May never happen and if it does I'll do battle in Small Claims Court for replacement which will link me up to SED the technology that will resolve burn-in once and for all.

slannes

Hello, I have the Panasonic TH-42PX500U and I have had it since last december. I really love the set - but I am starting to notice something that has just happened recently. It seems that for some reason, still images (station logos, video game HUDS, etc) are "staying" on the screen, even after I change the channel or turn off the source material. The set never used to have this problem and I wanted to know if anyone else has seen similar behavior after about 9 months of use, or if I should call panasonic about this?

Any tips would be great.

Thanks!
Andrew

Are 9th Generation Plamsa TVs good for playing video games? I don't wan it to burn tthat much...

I'd say roughly passed the 100 hours mark or getting close. Have had since March. Don't keep track of hours because I completely ignored break-in as never had to with any CRT set and did not intend to with plasma. No compromises. If set gets burn-in as a result of doing what I bought it for –watching it in whatever mode content producers chose ------------ not in mode (stretching or whatever) manufacturer deems required to protect from burn-in or IR. Only precaution I took was pixel shifting mode—nothing else. Thus, if it suffers burn-in and warranty denied ----------- then its up to the Small Claims Court Judge to decide if black side bars were used 15.1% or 14.99% of the time. Or, to decide if defendant's 15% limit as a warranty out is calculated as accumulative before or after watching other content. Ridiculous! May never happen and if it does I'll do battle in Small Claims Court for replacement which will link me up to SED the technology that will resolve burn-in once and for all.

slannes

JUST CHECKED ON SERVICE MENU: 256 HOURS SO I WAS WAY OFF.

slannes

I have a Samsung SP-S4243, 42" Plasma. I have had it for about 3 weeks now. My son watches a DVD every day for a couple hours with horizontal bars. From the get go I turned down the contrast and the brightness. Unforutnately I notice already burn in when certain colors are on the page from "break in dvd" that I have been using. So I created an image on my PC that has a black center and some white bars. I am hoping this will reverse it. Should I run this on image with full brightness contrast. Has anyone else had success with this method?

Don't worry about it. Just watch stuff without bars on the side for a bit, or make your son use one of the stretch modes to fill the screen. It will go away in time.

I have a Samsung SP-S4243, 42" Plasma. I have had it for about 3 weeks now. My son watches a DVD every day for a couple hours with horizontal bars. From the get go I turned down the contrast and the brightness. Unforutnately I notice already burn in when certain colors are on the page from "break in dvd" that I have been using. So I created an image on my PC that has a black center and some white bars. I am hoping this will reverse it. Should I run this on image with full brightness contrast. Has anyone else had success with this method?
In theory this should reverse it faster than the break-in dvd or any other method. I don't think anybody has actually tried this because it can be somewhat risky. If the white bars that you created on your PC do not match exactly to the black bars on your son's DVD then you could wind up with burn in from any overlap in the image. This is of course assuming that you are sure that it was your son's DVD that caused the problem. Good Luck

In theory this should reverse if faster than the break-in dvd or any other method. I don't think anybody has actually tried this because it can be somewhat risky. If your white bars that you created on your PC do not match exactly to the black bars on your son's DVD then you could wind up with burn in from any overlap in the image. This is of course assuming that you are sure that it was your son's DVD that caused the problem. Good Luck

I agree - it is pretty much impossible to perfectly match the aspect of the image that caused the IR - if you are off by even one pixle, you'll be multiplying the IR/burn-in effect where there is an overlap.

I agree - it is pretty much impossible to perfectly match the aspect of the image that caused the IR - if you are off by even one pixle, you'll be multiplying the IR/burn-in effect where there is an overlap.


I tried it last night. I did is for short periods at a time. I noticed right away when I was off bc I had really hard line where I had overlapped. So I decided to make it 99% black and then at the edges I made it grey and then the rest of the screen white. It seems to have help to accelerate the removal of the burn in. I dont have time to do it tonight, but I will try more tomorrow and let you know how it goes. Does anyone think I should try calling Samsug to try to get them to replace the panel? I mean the panel is less than 3 weeks old.

One of my best friends, Dan, is the son of Hitachi's Vice President. He's interning overseas in Japan for the summer. He works for Hitachi's plasma test team and I guess a big part of that involves burn-in testing. I spoke to him recently and he told that they would put a static image up for 8 hours on 50% contrast and 50% brightness and no burn-in would appear. Of course they do all types of other tests where they would see burn-in's but he said those are unrealistic circumstances and that you really have to abuse your plasma. So I definitely think that burn-in's (although they exist) are made to be a bigger deal sometimes than they actually are.

I remember Dan had a plasma in his bedroom when we were in high school. We certainly didn't take care of that thing, as we didn't even know about burn in's then and his Dad never said anything. We used to play all types of Playstation games and sometimes going out to dinner or to a party with the game on pause. We stayed at his parent's for about a week at the end of Spring quarter and we looked really hard for burn-in's. I just started getting into Plasma technology this year so I was really curious as to the damage we had inflected on the plasma unknowingly back in high school. Both Dan and I couldn't find any burn-in's. It is worth noting that the plasma is about 4-5 years old and it doesn't have a "screen wipe" feature where we can clearly look for burn-in's. But we did look pretty hard all over the screen and came up with nothing. Now move ahead 4 years and I'm sure the technology today is far superior. I will be getting a Hitachi plasma (at 50% off thanks to Dan's dad) in about a month or so and I will not be too concerned with burn-in's. I think as long as you are even semi-careful, you should be fine with not getting burn-in's on your plasma.

as long as you're semi careful? you weren't careful at all! do you really expect me or anyone else to believe this story? you're telling me that you abused a plasma tv for 4-5 years and got zero burn in when this poor bastard with a 9 month old tv played a game for 4 hours and his set is ruined?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=674974928176909831&q=madden+plasma

let's not be ridiculous here. i have witnessed and experienced plasma burn in on a variety of brands and model years. it is a very real problem, no matter how some here would like to sugar coat it and gloss over the facts.

I'd say roughly passed the 100 hours mark or getting close. Have had since March. Don't keep track of hours because I completely ignored break-in as never had to with any CRT set and did not intend to with plasma. No compromises. If set gets burn-in as a result of doing what I bought it for –watching it in whatever mode content producers chose ------------ not in mode (stretching or whatever) manufacturer deems required to protect from burn-in or IR. Only precaution I took was pixel shifting mode—nothing else. Thus, if it suffers burn-in and warranty denied ----------- then its up to the Small Claims Court Judge to decide if black side bars were used 15.1% or 14.99% of the time. Or, to decide if defendant's 15% limit as a warranty out is calculated as accumulative before or after watching other content. Ridiculous! May never happen and if it does I'll do battle in Small Claims Court for replacement which will link me up to SED the technology that will resolve burn-in once and for all.

slannes


lol yeah good luck with that. rtfm of your plasma and it clearly warns against burn in. and i love your earlier quote about being able to enjoy your plasma without restrictions. everything has restrictions, unless you're a 5 year old. you can't drink to excess, you can't drive too fast, you can't fondle members of the opposite sex, you can't discharge your weapon in a shopping mall, you can't stroll naked through a park, you can't use poodles as footballs, etc. that's life.

as long as you're semi careful? you weren't careful at all! do you really expect me or anyone else to believe this story? you're telling me that you abused a plasma tv for 4-5 years and got zero burn in when this poor bastard with a 9 month old tv played a game for 4 hours and his set is ruined?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=674974928176909831&q=madden+plasma

let's not be ridiculous here. i have witnessed and experienced plasma burn in on a variety of brands and model years. it is a very real problem, no matter how some here would like to sugar coat it and gloss over the facts.

Ok, this might be my stupidest post yet, but it's because of the nightmarish video posted above. Like all plasma owners, burn-in is a worry - even though it shouldn't be, right? - but I try not to think about it. I've had my TV (Hitachi 42HDS69) for about 5 weeks and have 300 hours on it. The NCAA 07 Football and Madden 07 tickers and symbol suck monkey nuts.

The image retention really bothers me, HOWEVER!, I'm not sure if what I'm experiencing is a problem or not. After I play Madden for a while, I'm left with an image on the screen. NOTE: It looks NOTHING like what the poor guy above posted. In no way, shape or form is the IR viewable during normal viewing. I can only see a faint outline (it actually looks like darkened pixels, not brightened like above) when there is no signal coming through the set and I'm less than a foot away. It sticks around for a while, but always goes away.

What's your experience with IR, does it look like what's happening in the video to the guy above, or does it look more like what I'm seeing. Since I can't see it all when a signal is coming through, I'm thinking I shouldn't worry. Please Reply!

I went to sleep last night with a break-in disc in the dvd, but at some point, my player switched to a single image. I now have image retention (or burn-in). I'm not quite sure what to do. The retained image was from black lines.

I went to sleep last night with a break-in disc in the dvd, but at some point, my player switched to a single image. I now have image retention (or burn-in). I'm not quite sure what to do. The retained image was from black lines.

I don't want to offend anyone, but this is why I think the break in dvd is stupid. Why is this any better than just tuning the set to an HD channel, zooming in to avoid any logos, and dialing down the settings?

...you can't use poodles as footballs...

but... What else are they good for though?

lol yeah good luck with that. rtfm of your plasma and it clearly warns against burn in. and i love your earlier quote about being able to enjoy your plasma without restrictions. everything has restrictions, unless you're a 5 year old. you can't drink to excess, you can't drive too fast, you can't fondle members of the opposite sex, you can't discharge your weapon in a shopping mall, you can't stroll naked through a park, you can't use poodles as footballs, etc. that's life.

Re: analogies indirectly in defense of plasma manufacturers profits generated from inferior technology placing constraints on end-users —if you exceed 15% viewing unapproved content and get burn-in then suck on your warranty and buy from us -------- another and another etc.

As with fifty years of CRTs ----- will be no viewing restrictions with SED technoloy when also forking over big bucks to buy with intent to enjoy unrestricted all content with no burn-in fear ---------- which will send Plasma technology to its appropriate resting place with the Titanic. http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/sed_tvs.htm

slannes

Re: analogies indirectly in defense of plasma manufacturers profits generated from inferior technology placing constraints on end-users —if you exceed 15% viewing unapproved content and get burn-in then suck on your warranty and buy from us -------- another and another etc.

As with fifty years of CRTs ----- will be no viewing restrictions with SED technoloy when also forking over big bucks to buy with intent to enjoy unrestricted all content with no burn-in fear ---------- which will send Plasma technology to its appropriate resting place with the Titanic. http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/sed_tvs.htm

slannes

Defining plasma restriction: When watching content on one's plasma with for example ESPN bright logo in bottom right corner — after about forty minutes better shut off big screen plasma in living room and hike into bedroom and switch on the faithful old CRT or LCD and enjoy the rest of the game without worry of burn-in and fear of plasma manufacturers warranty claim response being -------- pound-sand for failing to obey our restrictions (joe six pack may never read and if so doesn't understand and/or can't calculate to 15% –who can?) to preserve our profits not your viewing enjoyment!

End of matter.

slannes

Defining plasma restriction: When watching content on one's plasma with for example ESPN bright logo in bottom right corner — after about forty minutes better shut off big screen plasma in living room and hike into bedroom and switch on the faithful old CRT or LCD and enjoy the rest of the game without worry of burn-in and fear of plasma manufacturers warranty claim response being -------- pound-sand for failing to obey our restrictions (joe six pack may never read and if so doesn't understand and/or can't calculate to 15% –who can?) to preserve our profits not your viewing enjoyment!

End of matter.

slannes

Your set WON'T burn during a sporting event. Commericals, instant reply, cutaways, it's not static on your screen for very long. Did you buy a piece of crap set? Is that why you're so up in arms?

I'm beginning to think I was a little over-worried about burn-in. I followed the proper procedure for break-in, setting Picture and Brightness at 0 for the first 180 hours (added an extra 80 for good measure). But after that (for the last few days) I have been at 10 Picture and 5 Brightness. For Cinema, +12 Picture and -10 Brightness. Yesterday we had a marathon and watched Tsotsi, Poseidon and Stargate, all in 2.35:1. After that I put up a white screen and put my nose to the screen, no evidence whatsoever of burn-in or even image retention. That said, I'm still not going to use 4:3 mode, or play XBox on it. That is just asking for trouble.

Would somebody please answer my question!?
Is IR typically visable during normal viewing?
Is it typically visable on all white screens or light screens?
I ask this because I can only see it (particularly from Madden) on dark screens that have no signal coming through, but it's impossible to see any other way. Please help this paranoid person!

I'm beginning to think I was a little over-worried about burn-in. I followed the proper procedure for break-in, setting Picture and Brightness at 0 for the first 180 hours (added an extra 80 for good measure). But after that (for the last few days) I have been at 10 Picture and 5 Brightness. For Cinema, +12 Picture and -10 Brightness. Yesterday we had a marathon and watched Tsotsi, Poseidon and Stargate, all in 2.35:1. After that I put up a white screen and put my nose to the screen, no evidence whatsoever of burn-in or even image retention. That said, I'm still not going to use 4:3 mode, or play XBox on it. That is just asking for trouble.
There is no difference 2.35:1 and 4:3 when considering the risk of burn-in. I wouldn't shy away from 4:3 as long as you don't use it more than 15% of the time.

Is it better to have grey bars of 4:3 ratio?!!

As some of you may read my 3 week old Samsung has burnin after some simple dvd watching with horizontal bars. I have tried some things counter act this. Now I am fighting with Samsung and my local store to get it resolved. Worst comes to worst I will try to fight this with my credit card company.

Is it better to have grey bars of 4:3 ratio?!!
Someone must think so, at least at Hitachi. I have a Hitachi set, and the gray vertical bars are the default. There is a command to make them black for people that don't like the brightness of the "frame", but as one of our fellow posters has lamented a number of times (that may have been on the Hitachi board that I also haunt), there doesn't seem to be a way to make black bars the default. You have to set this each time the set is turned back on, so it suggests that they're trying to protect you from yourself. Makes sense to a certain extent -- if the pixels are having to work to make gray, they're not as likely to age less than the pixels showing you the programming. But I'm not an engineer and don't pretend to know what Hitachi was actually thinking.

-Brad

Sorry to hear about the burn-in skidpl8. Did you do any break-in on your plasma for the first 100 hours or so, or do you have it in torch mode? From what I hear, you have an uphill battle ahead of you if you are hoping to get a new set or a refund due to burn-in. They have lots of disclaimers in their manuals about it.

Macinheimer grey is definitely better than black bars. But I prefer to stretch my SD content. Seeing as 80% of what I watch is SD, I would certainly have burn-in if I used side bars.

Your set WON'T burn during a sporting event. Commericals, instant reply, cutaways, it's not static on your screen for very long. Did you buy a piece of crap set? Is that why you're so up in arms?

CORRECTION: SAW TWO PLASMAS IN TWO DIFFERENT RESTAURANTS LAST WEEK --ONE IN SO CA AND ONE IN NO CA AND BOTH HAD ESPN LOGO BURNT INTO LOWER RIGHT CORNER. I'M NOT UP IN ARMS BUT JUST LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TURN PLASMA ON AND DO WHAT I BOUGHT IT FOR BEING WATCH IT, FALL ASLEEP IN FRONT OF AS WAS COMMON WITH CRT. AND, NOT BE IN FEAR OF BURN-IN WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE UNTIL PLASMAS HIT THE MARKET ---BUT FORTUNATELY FORERUNNER OF SED WHICH WILL MAKE BURN-IN AGAIN A NON ISSUE.

SORRY FOR ANY OFFENSE -------BUT, I'M A HOPELESS REALIST SO DON'T LIKE COMPROMISING FOR PRODUCTS THAT LACK PERFECTION BEING TRUE ABSENSE OF BURN-IN RISK.

slannes

CORRECTION: SAW TWO PLASMAS IN TWO DIFFERENT RESTAURANTS LAST WEEK --ONE IN SO CA AND ONE IN NO CA AND BOTH HAD ESPN LOGO BURNT INTO LOWER RIGHT CORNER. I'M NOT UP IN ARMS BUT JUST LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TURN PLASMA ON AND DO WHAT I BOUGHT IT FOR BEING WATCH IT, FALL ASLEEP IN FRONT OF AS WAS COMMON WITH CRT. AND, NOT BE IN FEAR OF BURN-IN WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE UNTIL PLASMAS HIT THE MARKET ---BUT FORTUNATELY FORERUNNER OF SED WHICH WILL MAKE BURN-IN AGAIN A NON ISSUE.

SORRY FOR ANY OFFENSE -------BUT, I'M A HOPELESS REALIST SO DON'T LIKE COMPROMISING FOR PRODUCTS THAT LACK PERFECTION BEING TRUE ABSENSE OF BURN-IN RISK.

slannes

FORGOT TO MENTION MY PLASMA IS A HITACHI 42HDS52A I HAVE NOT HAD BURN IN YET SO MY COMMENTS ARE MERELY ADDRESSING THE FEAR FACTOR OF BURN-IN RISKS THEREOF AND MANUACTURER'S WAY OUT -- USE GRAY SIDE BARS INSTEAD OF BLACK. NO MOVIE THEATER SCREEN WAS EVER MASKED IN ANY COLOR BUT BLACK NOT LIGHT GRAY.

LOOKS LIKE SAMSUNG IS THE ANSWER TO ESPN OR OTHER BURN-IN. OR, DOES BUYER DISCOVER NOT SO AFTER THEY BUY AND FLIP OPEN MNANUAL AND READ RESTRICTIONS ON WATCHING.

http://www.firstglimpsemag.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles/2005/y0211/15y11/15y11.asp&guid=

slannes

01-17-2005, 03:00 AM #290
Ron_Yeoh
Member

Join Date: Mar 2004
Local Time: 06:44 AM
Local Date: 08-31-2006

Hi all ,
I just had my new Pioneer 435 installed and watched three football matches on Ssturday night in a row. Even with flicking over to other channels at halftimes etc, I could see the ESPN Live logo burned in the next morning..sigh. Is this likely to fade with more judicious usage or am I going to burn this area out even more when I watch ESPN live again??? Thanks.
Ron

04-01-2005, 05:51 AM #301
Poidoggy
Keith I
Member

Join Date: May 2004
Local Time: 12:48 PM
Local Date: 08-30-2006
Location: Five-Oh! Or a place where they won't let me watch Season 3 of Veronica Mars.

300 posts is a lot to read now and I just got here.

I have a 4.5 year old Panasonic 47" RPTV and adjusted it accordingly, knowing to turn down the contrast level. I watched many 2.35:1 DVDs and never had any burn in where the black bars were.

However, before I knew about burn-in when I bought it, I started watching lots of TV on DVD (1.33:1) and after watching most of them and regular broadcast TV, the grey bars (where they meet the image) burned in!

So black bars were okay. Grey bars burned in. Ever since then, I have never used the 4:3 mode on this TV, although I would rather watch 4:3 material in 4:3 mode.

I vowed that my next TV would never be a plasma or a RPTV.

wow slannes you've been busy...

some would call this spamming at this point...

I read over and over to use "break in" settings- turn down the brightness, contrast, etc... during first 100 hours. However, if you are not displaying any harmful content such as black bars, logos, tickers, etc... what is the point? Without displaying any "harmful" content, it seems that reducing the brightness and contrast will only lengthen the time it takes to "break in" your TV. The owners manual for my new Pioneer warns about burn-in over and over- and cautions against specific risky uses. Yet, I didn't see any instructions or references to a break in period or break in settings AT ALL!!!

some would call this spamming at this point...

Agreed. Plasma's owners strictly abiding by manufacturers viewing 'limitations" will protect : 1.) buyers screens (watch the clock for any risk of exceeding 14.99999%, unacceptable to manufacturers, content viewing --black bars, stationary stationary logos etc.); and; 2.) protect plasma manufacturers bottom line due to elimination of warranty claims due to viewing rejected content. Thus, both parities should be content. Plasma owners merely need to understand how they viewed their CRTs is history when it comes to how they view their far more expensive plasmas.

End of my comments. Spam is something nobody cares to read. Thus, I apologize.

slannes

This addendum is indeed spam but its conclusive.

If the famous director John Huston came back from the
grave and witnessed his famous works inclusive of "The Maltese Falcon"
and "Treasure of Sierra Madre" being watched stretched and/or top, bottom and
sides clipped off –he might ask why since that is not how he shot movies.
He'd have to be told – his works of art are being watched in this fashion because
watching as he intended they be seen could exceed 15% limitations and cause burn-in.

slannes

This addendum is indeed spam but its conclusive.

If the famous director John Huston came back from the
grave and witnessed his famous works inclusive of "The Maltese Falcon"
and "Treasure of Sierra Madre" being watched stretched and/or top, bottom and
sides clipped off –he might ask why since that is not how he shot movies.
He'd have to be told – his works of art are being watched in this fashion because
watching as he intended they be seen could exceed 15% limitations and cause burn-in.

slannes

How old are you?? My guess is mid-50's/early 60's.

Now that you too are doing spam irrelevant to burn-in:

Assuming age does not dictate who may or may not use this thread for those of all ages coping with burn-in I am 56. Don't judge my qualifications to gripe about burn-in risks based on age. I'm sure you so asked because of movies screen ratio I cited which are older classics. But please be advised I am also fond of all movies and thus newer ones such as "Pulp Fiction", "Kill Bill II" which also must be watched with burn-in risk due to 2:35 --top and bottom has horizontal bars distinuguished from previosulsy cited movies having side bars.

slannes

May need a burn-in thread for over 50 plasma owners such as me, an elder plasma owner, who recalls how movies sould be presented. Still have in my garage five 16MM projertors and movies which survived an FBI raid (I hid) back in the late 1970's becaue my name was discoverd by FBI on raid of 16MM films seller (use TV etc. prints). And, then came VHS with its FBI warnings and now on DVDs (try to skip).

slannes

I read over and over to use "break in" settings- turn down the brightness, contrast, etc... during first 100 hours. However, if you are not displaying any harmful content such as black bars, logos, tickers, etc... what is the point? Without displaying any "harmful" content, it seems that reducing the brightness and contrast will only lengthen the time it takes to "break in" your TV. The owners manual for my new Pioneer warns about burn-in over and over- and cautions against specific risky uses. Yet, I didn't see any instructions or references to a break in period or break in settings AT ALL!!!

Exactly! I will pick up my Pio 5070 tomorrow and will be watching the picture adjusted to my taste when viewing full screen content right from the start. I will only dial things down when there appears to be content which might lead to IR.

One thing that people don't seem to realize is that this rush to break in your plasmas actually degrades the picture (ever so slightly of course). The phosphor ain't gonna look any better than it does right out of the box. Even after 100-1000hrs of break in all you will have accomplished is a REDUCTION in the tendency for IR - not it's elimination. If you want bullet-proof insurance against IR then use a break-in period of 60,000 hrs (the half-life of the phosphor). :D

If the famous director John Huston came back from the
grave and witnessed his famous works inclusive of "The Maltese Falcon"
and "Treasure of Sierra Madre" being watched stretched and/or top, bottom and
sides clipped off –he might ask why since that is not how he shot movies.

slannes

I'd tell him he could watch it any way he likes if he comes up with the $$ to pay for the set. Otherwise, I'd tell him to sit in the cheap seats, keep quiet, and get me a beer when I ask :D

Personally, I will be getting a plasma for the living room. I understand the threat of burn-in, as I have seen a few with this problem at my store. Now, we have the same HD content playing for a month at a time for about 12 hours a day. Some of the scenes are ads that have bars, so I am not surprised at all by this. I will be using my plasma, only for HDtv/HDDVD or Xbox 360/PS3(I don't get into slot of sports games). Any SD tv(other than dvd) will be viewed in the bedroom on a 32" lcd. I will break my set in as mentioned, so watching movies isn't going to be an issue. Also, honestly I only watch one movie in a sitting, so a hour-two hours of bars will not ruin the set. These are perfect conditions in a sense, but this is the reason I'm going with this type of technology. If it were my only set, I'd have a SXRD or HDILA.

I'd tell him he could watch it any way he likes if he comes up with the $$ to pay for the set. Otherwise, I'd tell him to sit in the cheap seats, keep quiet, and get me a beer when I ask :D

After five divorces http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001379/bio

he might have to watch stretched due to money needed to replace warranty denied burn-in plasma (if he exceeded 15% sdie bars restriction) in his former five wives hands.

No more spam. Subject matter way out in left field.


slannes

Is it better to have side bars or to stretch it out?

Is it better to have side bars or to stretch it out?

Per manufacturers restrictions on plasma owners ------they dictate fill the screen so stretch or zoom which can get a bit grainy with some content. But perhaps better than stretching Uma Thurman's face and body.

Yet, they do allow you to use side bars but only up to their demands of maximum of 15%.

slannes

Per manufacturers restrictions on plasma owners ------they dictate fill the screen so stretch or zoom which can get a bit grainy with some content. But perhaps better than stretching Uma Thurman's face and body.

Yet, they do allow you to use side bars but only up to their demands of maximum of 15%.

slannes

You are worrying about this WAY too much. Enjoy your set, watch your movies. I'm guessing you're going to be A-OK. Think about it this way, the companies are probably stating 15% as a VERY conservative number, I'm sure that's not the max. I know all about preserving the original aspect quality of film and agree that you shouldn't have to stretch things out. But seriously, do you ONLY watch 4:3 movies? I think it's all about mixing your content. If all you want to watch are 4:3 movies, then why in God's name did you buy a 16:9 plasma? You can sue, but all it's just going to cost you time and money. I asked how old you were not because of your film selection, but because it seemed you were in the perfect age range of those still trying to "stick it to the MAN." As you can see, I was dead on in my guess.

More seriously to everyone else who avoided the question I posted twice: What does Image Retention look like? Is it a lighter image that can be seen when viewing normal content? What I get are darkened pixels that can only be seen against a blank signal. What the hell is that?

Agreed. Plasma's owners strictly abiding by manufacturers viewing 'limitations" will protect : 1.) buyers screens (watch the clock for any risk of exceeding 14.99999%, unacceptable to manufacturers, content viewing --black bars, stationary stationary logos etc.); and; 2.) protect plasma manufacturers bottom line due to elimination of warranty claims due to viewing rejected content. Thus, both parities should be content. Plasma owners merely need to understand how they viewed their CRTs is history when it comes to how they view their far more expensive plasmas.

End of my comments. Spam is something nobody cares to read. Thus, I apologize.

slannes



slannes, have you ever seen the movie V for Vendetta? if i were to paste all of your comments together you'd remind me of V, particularly his opening monologue in the alley. only in your case you didn't begin every word with a "v". give it a try next post...

You are worrying about this WAY too much. Enjoy your set, watch your movies. I'm guessing you're going to be A-OK. Think about it this way, the companies are probably stating 15% as a VERY conservative number, I'm sure that's not the max. I know all about preserving the original aspect quality of film and agree that you shouldn't have to stretch things out. But seriously, do you ONLY watch 4:3 movies? I think it's all about mixing your content. If all you want to watch are 4:3 movies, then why in God's name did you buy a 16:9 plasma? You can sue, but all it's just going to cost you time and money. I asked how old you were not because of your film selection, but because it seemed you were in the perfect age range of those still trying to "stick it to the MAN." As you can see, I was dead on in my guess.

More seriously to everyone else who avoided the question I posted twice: What does Image Retention look like? Is it a lighter image that can be seen when viewing normal content? What I get are darkened pixels that can only be seen against a blank signal. What the hell is that?
Bought a plasma because I do indeed watch all content wide screen and standard ratio so wanted best picture for both. Of course, have the issue of CC do to Comcast STB lousy SD PQ but not issue relevant to this thread Due to widely publicized burn-in risks we videophiles are aware of, but average user may not be (and thus learn the hard and expensive way) it is evident paranoia arises then watching 4:33 content. But, I will say plasma is pure joy both visually and psychologically when watching 1:69 or 1:85 content. So content mix for movie watching is indeed there. But, I just don't like making concessions to imperfect technology e.g, worry that did I watch too many 4:33 movies with black side bars before watching wide screen content and thus threw mix off with resultant reentry to burn-in risk dangers. I want to watch what I want when I want to as I always have. So maybe I'm expecting too much from plasma manufacturers who went to market, pre and post pixel orbiting (an admission or burn-in dangers) with screens they say are the best PQ and indeed are --------- yet they must and do state (in instruction manuals commonly read post purchase as not in pre purchase advertising) BUT which is adjust your viewing habits to our mandates due to plasma technology's admitted major shortcoming—burn- in -------- or else pound sand!

As I told my wife (by the way much younger than me --attachment)–that plasma won't be here a year from now because I intend to watch on it what I want when I want. So if we get burn-in watching what we want it'll fit in trash bin (42") and then back to CCity for a LCD to link up to
SED.

slannes

As I told my wife (by the way much younger than me --attachment)

slannes

Slannes. You O'l dog. One question...

Do you have the same policy regarding high heels on bedspreads? :D

Looks a bit unstable too. :p

Now that you too are doing spam irrelevant to burn-in:

Assuming age does not dictate who may or may not use this thread for those of all ages coping with burn-in I am 56. Don't judge my qualifications to gripe about burn-in risks based on age. I'm sure you so asked because of movies screen ratio I cited which are older classics. But please be advised I am also fond of all movies and thus newer ones such as "Pulp Fiction", "Kill Bill II" which also must be watched with burn-in risk due to 2:35 --top and bottom has horizontal bars distinuguished from previosulsy cited movies having side bars.

slannes

I am by no means up to date on this thread, as it is way to big...but if you change your side bars from black to grey, shouldn't that take care of most worries about watching 2:35 content? That will allow the bar phosphors to wear with the middle content.

01-17-2005, 03:00 AM #290
Ron_Yeoh
Member

Join Date: Mar 2004
Local Time: 06:44 AM
Local Date: 08-31-2006

Hi all ,
I just had my new Pioneer 435 installed and watched three football matches on Ssturday night in a row. Even with flicking over to other channels at halftimes etc, I could see the ESPN Live logo burned in the next morning..sigh. Is this likely to fade with more judicious usage or am I going to burn this area out even more when I watch ESPN live again??? Thanks.
Ron

Run a break in disc for a day and it should be gone. Same thing happened to me with the ESPN logo on their HD channel.

Slannes. You O'l dog. One question...

Do you have the same policy regarding high heels on bedspreads? :D

Looks a bit unstable too. :p


No shoes allowed on b-spead not by warranty 15% dictates but by choice ---------- can cause IR and with heels indeed burn-in ---- -correction tare-in!

slannes

I am by no means up to date on this thread, as it is way to big...but if you change your side bars from black to grey, shouldn't that take care of most worries about watching 2:35 content? That will allow the bar phosphors to wear with the middle content.

Common sense suggests that it is even usage over the entire screen that determines IR. In so much as the grey bars approximate the content watched in the center there will be no "bar" retention. However, grey bars are not really the content in the center of the screen so, if watched continually in this mode one would ultimately expect some level of bar IR.

I think it is obvious that IR occurs all the time. With even usage the IR covers the whole screen and so is not detectable - it IS there though.

Sorry to hear about the burn-in skidpl8. Did you do any break-in on your plasma for the first 100 hours or so, or do you have it in torch mode? From what I hear, you have an uphill battle ahead of you if you are hoping to get a new set or a refund due to burn-in. They have lots of disclaimers in their manuals about it.

Macinheimer grey is definitely better than black bars. But I prefer to stretch my SD content. Seeing as 80% of what I watch is SD, I would certainly have burn-in if I used side bars.


Thanks for the response. First thing I did was dial down the contrast and brightness. I did not do a formal break-in, but it did intentionally keep it tuned on the tv with a full screen when it was unattended.

I am going to argue that this thing is deffective. It is one thing to get burn-in after months of years of abuse with video games, logos, or black bars, but 2 1/2 weeks of fairly typical watching? Give me a feaking break!!

I am by no means up to date on this thread, as it is way to big...but if you change your side bars from black to grey, shouldn't that take care of most worries about watching 2:35 content? That will allow the bar phosphors to wear with the middle content.


But the phosphers are burning bright grey 100% of the time so they are wearing out faster and burning in the grey. Black bars are the way to go, just don't watch 4:3 all the time.

I've watched plenty of letterbox dvd's since I've had my plasma, got almost 500 hours on it now and I don't see any sign of uneven wearing. I do however get IR from the grey bars on the sides though.

But the phosphers are burning bright grey 100% of the time so they are wearing out faster and burning in the grey. Black bars are the way to go, just don't watch 4:3 all the time.

I've watched plenty of letterbox dvd's since I've had my plasma, got almost 500 hours on it now and I don't see any sign of uneven wearing. I do however get IR from the grey bars on the sides though.

Extremely interesting in light of fact Hitachi promotes default gray side bars and discourages
re-setting to black. You may be onto why my worries may be for nothing since I went through overwhelming majority of initial 270 hours (where I'm at now per SM) watching both black side bar 4.3 content and 2:85 top horizontal bar DVDs and most TV watching TCM, and news channels both with black side bars. I'd say at most 30% during first 260 hours filled entire screen. Yet no IR. Now I wonder what would have occurred had I used gray side bars which I can't stand and never would- rather run the IR risk.

Thanks for informative input.

slannes

What's your guy's thoughts on running the Hitachi screen wipe (all white screen) for the break in period. Read a calibrater elsewhere saying he heard running an all white screen for 500 hours initially greatly increased a plasma's life span.

The theory was that they never suffer from lack of brightness but do suffer when all of the phosphur/whatever (too technical for me) do not get equally challenged in the first few hundred hours.

Good advice or horse hockey?

Mark "curious" Mathis

I think just the opposite, in fact my plasma manual says to use white wash spareingly as it shortens the life of the panel.

Considering current plasmas have a projected lifespan of 60,000 hours, makes you wonder what white wash is doing that they would warn it can shorten the lifespan.

I just wondering......

Does any Current Plasma manufacturer recommend either a break in period or break in settings???

I just wondering......

Does any Current Plasma manufacturer recommend either a break in period or break in settings???
I can only comment on the set I have, but for Hitachi the answer is no. They warn about static images in the manual, but ship their sets on full blast and provide no recommendations for break-in or settings. Unfortunate.

I can only comment on the set I have, but for Hitachi the answer is no. They warn about static images in the manual, but ship their sets on full blast and provide no recommendations for break-in or settings. Unfortunate.

Interesting.... but is it unfortunate? My new Pioneers instruction manual says nothing of a break in period or break in settings! If it was so critical, wouldn't the major manufacturers have it in their manuals?

I would like to hear about other brands also. I think if no major brands recommend a break in period or break in settings for thier plasmas, it calls into question the necessity of the practice.

I don't know if any plasma brand suggests break-in period in their manuals, but I know of 2 local big screen stores that do suggest a break-in period. Although both have said it is only a precautionary thing.

One questions though, if you watch 4:3 in 4:3 mode, is the grey side bars recommended over the black side bars? as far as burn-ins are concerned?

I just wondering......

Does any Current Plasma manufacturer recommend either a break in period or break in settings???

Panasonic White Paper on Plasma Facts and Myths:

http://www.dynamicdigital.ca/documents/Plasma%20Facts%20and%20Myths.pdf#search=%22Panasonic%20plasm a%20break%20in%22

One questions though, if you watch 4:3 in 4:3 mode, is the grey side bars recommended over the black side bars? as far as burn-ins are concerned?

Grey bars better simulate the typical phosphor aging of watching tv. It is better for aging (breaking in phophors).

Constant use of grey or black bars will lead to burn-in eventually. If you can't get used to stretching content, try zooming it. Many shows now use letterbox format, you can at least zoom them to fill the screen and not lose any picture.

Panasonic White Paper on Plasma Facts and Myths:

http://www.dynamicdigital.ca/documents/Plasma%20Facts%20and%20Myths.pdf#search=%22Panasonic%20plasm a%20break%20in%22

That was a very interesting read- thanks for posting it! I thought it was strange that before describing the break in procedure, the paper reads:
"videophiles say it is best to do the following..." Videophiles? What about Panasonic? It's noteworthy that this paper is from 2004.

Does the instruction manual provided with current Panasonic Plasmas detail a break in period/settings?

The instruction manual for the new Pioneer series- 4270/5070/6070 says nothing of a break in period or settings.

That was a very interesting read- thanks for posting it! I thought it was strange that before describing the break in procedure, the paper reads:
"videophiles say it is best to do the following..." Videophiles? What about Panasonic? It's noteworthy that this paper is from 2004.

Does the instruction manual provided with current Panasonic Plasmas detail a break in period/settings?

The instruction manual for the new Pioneer series- 4270/5070/6070 says nothing of a break in period or settings.

The manual for the Panasonic TH-50PH9UK (and its brothers) doesn't say anything specifically about break-in either, aside from the warnings about burned-in images and steps you can take along the way to lessen the risks.

Today I called samsung and asked them about burn-in and what to do to avoid it; they said to lower my settings, contrast, brightness, to about 50 (half); and they told me i shouldn't worry about watching 4:3 content or 2:35:1 movies as long as i had my settings turned down.

What do you guys thing about that?

Today I called samsung and asked them about burn-in and what to do to avoid it; they said to lower my settings, contrast, brightness, to about 50 (half); and they told me i shouldn't worry about watching 4:3 content or 2:35:1 movies as long as i had my settings turned down.

What do you guys thing about that?

I would like to know if the instruction manual for current Samsung plasmas recommends break in settings?

Today I called samsung and asked them about burn-in and what to do to avoid it; they said to lower my settings, contrast, brightness, to about 50 (half); and they told me i shouldn't worry about watching 4:3 content or 2:35:1 movies as long as i had my settings turned down.

What do you guys thing about that?Makes sense to me:

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective (http://www.dynamicdigital.ca/documents/Plasma%20Facts%20and%20Myths.pdf#search=%22panasonic%20plasm a%20white%20paper%22)

I have a Panny TH-42PX60U and see that they have an IR screen refresh, but they don't tell u how to do it. Uh ok, how do you actual enable this?

I have a Panny TH-42PX60U and see that they have an IR screen refresh, but they don't tell u how to do it. Uh ok, how do you actual enable this?

I have the Panny TH-50PX60U..where do you see this??

It's in the their FAQ listed above in Optivity's post.

I'm still waiting to hear of one current plasma manufacturer that recommends, in the Instruction Manual, a break in period or break in settings.

I'm still waiting to hear of one current plasma manufacturer that recommends, in the Instruction Manual, a break in period or break in settings.A few blurbs from Panasonic's owner's manual for the TH-58PX600U:

"Do not display a still picture for a long time This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen (“after image”). This is not considered a malfunction and is
not covered by the warranty."

"To prevent after image, the screen saver is automatically activated after a few minutes if no signals are sent or no operations are performed."

"Typical still images Channel number and other logos Image displayed in 4:3 mode SD Card photo Video game Computer image Limited Warranty Limits And Exclusions"

Limited Warranty Limits And Exclusions

"This Limited Warranty ONLY COVERS failures due to defects in materials or workmanship, and DOES NOT COVER normal wear and tear or cosmetic damage, nor does it cover markings or retained images on the picture tube resulting from viewing fixed images (including, among other things, letterbox pictures on standard 4:3 screen TV’s, or non-expanded standard 4:3 pictures on wide screen TV’s, or onscreen data in a stationary and fixed location)."

A few blurbs from Panasonic's owner's manual for the TH-58PX600U:

"Do not display a still picture for a long time This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen (“after image”). This is not considered a malfunction and is
not covered by the warranty."

"To prevent after image, the screen saver is automatically activated after a few minutes if no signals are sent or no operations are performed."

"Typical still images Channel number and other logos Image displayed in 4:3 mode SD Card photo Video game Computer image Limited Warranty Limits And Exclusions"

Limited Warranty Limits And Exclusions

"This Limited Warranty ONLY COVERS failures due to defects in materials or workmanship, and DOES NOT COVER normal wear and tear or cosmetic damage, nor does it cover markings or retained images on the picture tube resulting from viewing fixed images (including, among other things, letterbox pictures on standard 4:3 screen TV’s, or non-expanded standard 4:3 pictures on wide screen TV’s, or onscreen data in a stationary and fixed location)."

But what is "a long time" for a still picture? I mean, for me a long time could mean 6 hrs; so isn't it kind of subjective?? and now that the nfl season has started, how worried should i be with station logos and score board and all??
i think it sucks not being able to watch tv regularly with out worrying about damaging your set... they (manufacturers) should be more specific about times and take responsibility if the plasma gets burn in with "normal" tv viewing.

But what is "a long time" for a still picture? I mean, for me a long time could mean 6 hrs; so isn't it kind of subjective?? and now that the nfl season has started, how worried should i be with station logos and score board and all??
i think it sucks not being able to watch tv regularly with out worrying about damaging your set... they (manufacturers) should be more specific about times and take responsibility if the plasma gets burn in with "normal" tv viewing.
http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2006/06/plasma_tv_sales.html

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/2/181774.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/01/tv_logos.html

We had friends over last night and I paused a 4:3 show on the DVR with gray bars and walked them out. I totally forgot everything was on and went to bed. Got upstairs to watch football today and it was still paused on that image.

Absolutely ZERO image retention, absolutely ZERO burn in. Looks perfect as always.

I just bought this 50" plasma yesturday. I know nothing about these tv's and was wondering before I hook it up what I should know about first using plasmas. And also was wondering if anyone knows of any problems this model might have? Thank-you very much!!

A few blurbs from Panasonic's owner's manual for the TH-58PX600U:

"Do not display a still picture for a long time This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen (“after image”). This is not considered a malfunction and is
not covered by the warranty."

"To prevent after image, the screen saver is automatically activated after a few minutes if no signals are sent or no operations are performed."

"Typical still images Channel number and other logos Image displayed in 4:3 mode SD Card photo Video game Computer image Limited Warranty Limits And Exclusions"

Limited Warranty Limits And Exclusions

"This Limited Warranty ONLY COVERS failures due to defects in materials or workmanship, and DOES NOT COVER normal wear and tear or cosmetic damage, nor does it cover markings or retained images on the picture tube resulting from viewing fixed images (including, among other things, letterbox pictures on standard 4:3 screen TV’s, or non-expanded standard 4:3 pictures on wide screen TV’s, or onscreen data in a stationary and fixed location)."

Thanks for the info optivity!!

The instruction manual for my new Pioneer plasma has several warnings about static images, black bars, and burn-in. It does not, however, recommend any break-in period or break-in settings. I'm told that the Panny manual also does not specifically recommend a break in period. This got me thinking.... If a break-in period was so critical, wouldn't the manufacturers recommend it in the instructions? If none of the top builders recommend a break-in period in the instruction manual, I think it raises the question of the importance of it.

I'm not saying it's not a good idea, but it makes one wonder.... There is so much talk about it on the internet- but let's face it, the internet has the amazing capacity to perpetuate falsehoods. Perhaps it (break-in) was more critical for earlier generations of plasmas? I wonder if Samsung or Phillips or any other current plasma builder specifically recommend a break-in period in the instructions! I say "in the instructions" because, for example, the oil change shop and my car manufacturer have different opinions on how often to change the oil. I will always believe the engineer who designed it over the grease monkey. Likewise, I want to see if ANY current plasma builder recommends a break-in period in the instructions. I think if NONE of them do, I have to wonder how important it really is.

We had friends over last night and I paused a 4:3 show on the DVR with gray bars and walked them out. I totally forgot everything was on and went to bed. Got upstairs to watch football today and it was still paused on that image.

Absolutely ZERO image retention, absolutely ZERO burn in. Looks perfect as always.

Wow! thats good to know! what brand and model is your plasma?

Thanks for the info optivity!!

The instruction manual for my new Pioneer plasma has several warnings about static images, black bars, and burn-in. It does not, however, recommend any break-in period or break-in settings. I'm told that the Panny manual also does not specifically recommend a break in period. This got me thinking.... If a break-in period was so critical, wouldn't the manufacturers recommend it in the instructions? If none of the top builders recommend a break-in period in the instruction manual, I think it raises the question of the importance of it.


If someone was really thinking, they'd offer a line of "pre-broke-in" plasmas that 'sat in a wharehouse with test patterns running. The suckas would be paying $400 over MSRP for them.

Wow! thats good to know! what brand and model is your plasma?
Pioneer 5050

I believe the manufacturer warnings about making limited use of static images, black bars and side bright gray bars w/4:3 content are specified because the potential of image retention always exists for PDPs. The risk for burn-in varies based upon the length of time these conditions are employed, the picture settings (brightness/contrast) used and the age of the TV/monitor itself. The "key" is to vary your program content so the phosphors wear at an even rate for the entire display.

My PDP has about 1400 hours of operation with no evidence of image retention. But I can still easily create temporary image retention by throwing up the OPPO bright white screen-saver logo for a little while, (Hey OPPO… why not make your logo more transparent with your next firmware update?), which is easily reversed with regular viewing.

I look for evidence of image retention on a regular basis so if it’s there… I can nip it early in the bud.

I've had my plasma (Zenith Z50PX2D) for almost 2 months and have about 200 hours on it. I watch a wide variety of programming, so no logos or tickers or scoreboards are on the display for extended periods of time. I do not play video games on it and the majority of non-HD viewing is done in stetch mode (probably 80+%).

About a month ago, at around the 110 hour mark, I noticed some IR after switching from a dvd menu to my satelitte feed. I stumbled across this forum and followed some of the advice....turned the contrast, brightness, etc. levels down, turned the "orbiter" on, and did a whitewash screen for about 5 minutes. After a short time of regular viewing (less than a half hour) the problem was solved. If my daughter gets a good does of Nickelodeon I might see a logo when the screen goes to black, but it's nothing that lasts more than a few minutes, tops, and I've seen no sign of permanent "burn-in".

So what's my issue or problem, you ask? Well, recently I've been noticing evenly spaced, vertical lines when the display is white or very light in colors. The lines are about 2 - 2.5 inches apart and span the entire screen. This only happens with very light colors. If the top half of the screen is white and the bottom is blue, the lines (appear to) end at the blue. I told a friend about it but after about 3 hours of viewing he hasn't been able to see it yet. I haven't told my wife that I see it....if she doesn't pick up on it, it doesn't exist, if you know what I mean.

So....is this normal? Does my set just have a crummy display? You can tell me I bought a crappy set, I won't take offense. I had a budget and wanted to get as much as I could for it so I knew going in that I wasn't going to have the greatest picture possible. The HD signal looks great (using HDMI connection), dvd's look great (using component video).....it's just the annoying lines that bug me once in awhile.

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

m.h.

So what's my issue or problem, you ask? Well, recently I've been noticing evenly spaced, vertical lines when the display is white or very light in colors. The lines are about 2 - 2.5 inches apart and span the entire screen. This only happens with very light colors. If the top half of the screen is white and the bottom is blue, the lines (appear to) end at the blue. I told a friend about it but after about 3 hours of viewing he hasn't been able to see it yet. I haven't told my wife that I see it....if she doesn't pick up on it, it doesn't exist, if you know what I mean.

m.h.,
This isn't a problem I recall hearing anyone else describe. A picture of the phenomenon might go a long way in helping the forum understand the problem, but if your friend can't see it when he's really trying, I wonder if a digital camera will pick it up. You might give it a try though.

-Brad

So what's my issue or problem, you ask? Well, recently I've been noticing evenly spaced, vertical lines when the display is white or very light in colors. The lines are about 2 - 2.5 inches apart and span the entire screen. This only happens with very light colors. If the top half of the screen is white and the bottom is blue, the lines (appear to) end at the blue. I told a friend about it but after about 3 hours of viewing he hasn't been able to see it yet. I haven't told my wife that I see it....if she doesn't pick up on it, it doesn't exist, if you know what I mean.

So....is this normal? Does my set just have a crummy display?Perhaps the image retention you see is being caused by using your cable/satellite provider's "program guide" feature too often? Although I see no evidence of image retention on my display, using my CATV provider's program guide on a regular basis has been a concern of mine.

Gets worse for me. My cable provider is Time Warner, and I have their DVR, which uses the Passport software. With this particular gem, when you access the Guide or the DVR features, it goes into 4:3 mode with grey bars on the sides. The Guide and particularly the DVR menus are items which are difficult to avoid, unfortunately. I don't think it is enough to cause burn-in though, I don't believe burn-in is a product of a cumulative effect. It is more a product of extended abuse.

I don't believe burn-in is a product of a cumulative effect. It is more a product of extended abuse.

Based on everything I have read, that is wrong.

The pixels age the same if it is in one extended go, or incrementally over periods that add up.
If the same pixels are seeing the same colours (like the bright lines and boxes in the DVR menu) it can cause a problem.

Un evenly aged pixels are what cause burn-in.

Perhaps the image retention you see is being caused by using your cable/satellite provider's "program guide" feature too often? Although I see no evidence of image retention on my display, using my CATV provider's program guide on a regular basis has been a concern of mine.

I don't know for sure that the program guide isn't the problem, but I'd make a guess that it's not. I have DirecTV and the blocked off section of the guide (where channels and times are displayed) is centered and only takes up about 2/3 of the screen (if that). The lines I'm seeing, however, extend the full height of the screen. They appear to be so evenly spaced that it almost seems like I've got a setting wrong....like adjusting something like contrast will make the lines less noticeable. I've had all of those settings tunred way down since around the 110 hour mark (I'm a plasma newbie and knew nothing about break in until stumbling on this forum). I didn't notice the lines when the contrast, brightness, etc. were cranked up, so maybe that's the problem.

Unfortunately my camera won't capture the lines. Perhaps I should try the Zenith thread to see if anyone else has noticed this. Thanks for the input.

m.h.

Hello.

After about 9 months with a 50" Panasonic 8uk Ive finally noticed burn in on the sides where the 4:3 aspect bars usually are.
I usually try to watch 4:3 aspect stuff zoomed in saome of the time, but my wife(who watches moreTV) forgets.

So I have the white bar scroll/screensaver thing going right now.

Is this the correct thing to do?
Will it work?
How long will it need to be on for?

So I have a question....


If plasma and crt is both based on phospher technology, and they rate a crt at about 30,000 hours phospher life, and hte new plasmas at 60,000 hours, how is it that a crt hardly gets burnins and plasmas can get burnins (unevenly aged phosphers) much easier? I would think that the longer lived phosphers would have less of a chance cuz of the longer life span. This doesn't make sense to me. And yeah I still have my burnin from months ago from my computer (windows start icon on the lower left hand of my screen) It's faded a lot but hasn't gotten any better in the past few months..... :(

I bought my Plasma..... had interesting conversation with the salesman.

I particularly asked him about the bars on the side causing burn in. He said that manufacturers over the past few years have made strides in making the tech better to fight burn in. He said that hte bars arn't an issue anymore with burn in. The fact that my father-in-laws Pioneer comes defaulted with grey sidebars ... I'd have to say manufactuers are aware of hte issue.

The salesperson also said that video gmaing is less risky. Unless I play for 10 hours straight ... burn in shouldn't be an issue.

So ... how much of this is accurate?

I bought my Plasma..... had interesting conversation with the salesman.

I particularly asked him about the bars on the side causing burn in. He said that manufacturers over the past few years have made strides in making the tech better to fight burn in. He said that hte bars arn't an issue anymore with burn in. The fact that my father-in-laws Pioneer comes defaulted with grey sidebars ... I'd have to say manufactuers are aware of hte issue.

The salesperson also said that video gmaing is less risky. Unless I play for 10 hours straight ... burn in shouldn't be an issue.

So ... how much of this is accurate?

I would trust the Pioneers' instruction manual over the salesman. The Pio manual warns about this issue several times. I would follow the manufacturers recommendations. I don't think you need to "baby" these sets, but you don't want to be careless either, especially when the set has few hours on it.

Last night I was watching Monday night football recorded on my DVR (2 games.. it was long and the second game was lame). I don't know how I did it, but I actually fell asleep when I had it paused! Luckily I woke up after what I guess was about a 30-45 minutes- long enough for the hard drive on my SA8300 to go to sleep. My Pio 5070 had about 45 hours on it, and the settings were reduced (color, contrast, etc...) Zero hint of IR or burn-in. I was sooo relieved.

BTW, I am still waiting to hear of one single current plasma brand that recommends a break-in period or break-in settings in the instructions.

Here's my question, please advise:
My set has about 350 hours on it (not bad considering it's only been 6 weeks!) and I don't THINK I've seen any IR, unless of course what I'm about to describe is IR. To be clear, no matter what I watch or what video game I play, I have NEVER seen an after image on my during normal viewing. Nothing at all. What I do see, however, is a black outline of a given area (usually the Madden ticker, damn thing) when the screen is totally dark or there's no signal coming through- even then, I have to be less than a foot away to notice this. So, what do you think? Is this image retention or something else? Should I even care about it if it doesn't affect normal viewing? It takes a long time to go away, but should I drive my self nuts with something like this? Thanks-

Here's my question, please advise:
My set has about 350 hours on it (not bad considering it's only been 6 weeks!) and I don't THINK I've seen any IR, unless of course what I'm about to describe is IR. To be clear, no matter what I watch or what video game I play, I have NEVER seen an after image on my during normal viewing. Nothing at all. What I do see, however, is a black outline of a given area (usually the Madden ticker, damn thing) when the screen is totally dark or there's no signal coming through- even then, I have to be less than a foot away to notice this. So, what do you think? Is this image retention or something else? Should I even care about it if it doesn't affect normal viewing? It takes a long time to go away, but should I drive my self nuts with something like this? Thanks-

Sounds like IR that could become burn-in if you play the same game too often.
Lay off the game for a couple weeks and see if it goes away completely.

I know that nobody is here to specifically answer my own questions, but Im still seeing these bars.
Im not sure if running the white bar scroll thing is going to make it better, worse, or have no effect at all.

Someone please advise.

From previous post:
After about 9 months with a 50" Panasonic 8uk Ive finally noticed burn in on the sides where the 4:3 aspect bars usually are.
I usually try to watch 4:3 aspect stuff zoomed in saome of the time, but my wife(who watches moreTV) forgets.

So I have the white bar scroll/screensaver thing going right now.

Is this the correct thing to do?
Will it work?
How long will it need to be on for?

If I'm watching widescreen HD content on my brand new plasma but the commercials are 4:3 and letterboxed with bars, should I worry about changing the aspect or is this only neccessary if you are watching 4:3 for prolonged periods of time? And what exactly constitutes a "prolonged period of time" anyway?

If I'm watching widescreen HD content on my brand new plasma but the commercials are 4:3 and letterboxed with bars, should I worry about changing the aspect or is this only neccessary if you are watching 4:3 for prolonged periods of time? And what exactly constitutes a "prolonged period of time" anyway?

Man, everyone gets so paranoid. No, you don't have to quickly change to zoom mode for commercials and then back. Just don't do prolonged 4:3 viewing (i.e. hours) without watching some regular widescreen content.

Hello.

After about 9 months with a 50" Panasonic 8uk Ive finally noticed burn in on the sides where the 4:3 aspect bars usually are.
I usually try to watch 4:3 aspect stuff zoomed in saome of the time, but my wife(who watches moreTV) forgets.

So I have the white bar scroll/screensaver thing going right now.

Is this the correct thing to do?
Will it work?
How long will it need to be on for?

The white scroll bar will work but you will have to wait a long time before seing results. The safest thing to do is to just watch full sceen without bars.

Few questions before I suggest other options:

1. What color side bars have you been using? Black, grey, or white?
2. Can you see the 4:3 burn in when you watch normal TV or can you only see it when a solid color is being displayed?
3. When you do see the burn-in, is the area where the bars are brighter or more dim? This will tell you if you are overutilizing the pixels on the side bars or underutilizing them.

I have a Pio4360 and noticed when i was re-calibrating, a very faint TLC logo burn-in (caused by the wifes viewing habits). Is there anything that can be done to try and minimize or reverse the effect of these?
The only time i noticed it was on the a Contrast and Brightness calibration screen.
Its all in the bottom right hand corner

I don't have a plasma yet. But after reading some of this thread I have to ask.

Has anyone contacted the networks about the logos? I would think if they have enough conplaints they may change them.

I guess they're afraid we'll forget what station we're watching.

I've been concerned about logo burnin myself. It seems very inconsiderate to plasma owners. I suppose the majority households still aren't viewing in HD, let alone on a plasma set, so networks aren't too concerned.

Now that I have a HD set, I'm shocked and horrified to see how much content is *still* being broadcast in SD 4:3.

The white scroll bar will work but you will have to wait a long time before seing results. The safest thing to do is to just watch full sceen without bars.

Few questions before I suggest other options:

1. What color side bars have you been using? Black, grey, or white?
2. Can you see the 4:3 burn in when you watch normal TV or can you only see it when a solid color is being displayed?
3. When you do see the burn-in, is the area where the bars are brighter or more dim? This will tell you if you are overutilizing the pixels on the side bars or underutilizing them.


I've got the same thing going - I thought I did everything right but it's hard to control an entire household. Panny 50" 600U I use black sidebars, I only see burn in with solid color, and the burn in looks brighter. What should I do? Not sure what the white scroll bar is but it seems it may not be worth it? thanks.

Black sidebar use is an invitation to burn-in. Don't use them. Tell your family not to use them. My wife knows the bars are evil. We stretch or zoom everything. If you use bars, you will continue to get burn-in.

Black sidebar use is an invitation to burn-in. Don't use them. Tell your family not to use them. My wife knows the bars are evil. We stretch or zoom everything. If you use bars, you will continue to get burn-in.

Ok, I'm stretching all my non HD TV viewing now but what about 2.35:1 movies with the black bars even with the TV in widescreen ratio mode? The only way to get rid of the black bars is zoom which distorts the resolution and overall picture quality.

I don't mind doing the stretch for TV viewing but it kinda sucks if I have to zoom for most widescreen movies...

I assume I'm using black bars - Black bars are basically no bars right? I mean, it basically just cuts off to black in 4:3 - you can't see any bars unless I'm missing something. thanks. Also, is there anything I can do to fix (run the burn in DVD or something again for a while? Will it make a difference) thanks.



Black sidebar use is an invitation to burn-in. Don't use them. Tell your family not to use them. My wife knows the bars are evil. We stretch or zoom everything. If you use bars, you will continue to get burn-in.

Well really any long term use of sidebars, black or grey (4:3 mode) will eventually lead to burn-in. It will take longer with grey bars, but it will eventually happen. There is nothing you can do really to immediately fix it, but it will fade over time if you stretch or zoom your content rather than using the bars on the sides. You could use a break-in DVD I suppose but since you will be using the set one way or the other, might be nicer to just watch it, rather than burning time with a break in DVD.

plasmas are most susceptible to burn-in during the first 100-200 hours? After that they become less and less susceptible to burn-in?

What about IR? Do they get less and less susceptible to IR over time also? Or is a plasma just as prone to IR after 1000 hours as it was at 0 hours?

IR is a part of the deal, but IR that last more than a minute or two is unusual for newer tv's.

Black sidebar use is an invitation to burn-in. Don't use them. Tell your family not to use them. My wife knows the bars are evil. We stretch or zoom everything. If you use bars, you will continue to get burn-in.
but this is just during the 100-1000 hour break-in period, right?

After a 1000 hour break-in, is it ok to watch lots of 4:3 material (4 - 5 hours a day) unstretched/unzoomed with black pillarbars, or does 4:3 material on a plasma need to be stretched/zoomed forever?

but this is just during the 100-1000 hour break-in period, right?

After a 1000 hour break-in, is it ok to watch lots of 4:3 material (4 - 5 hours a day) unstretched/unzoomed with black pillarbars, or does 4:3 material on a plasma need to be stretched/zoomed forever?

The risk of burn-in, according to Panasonic anyway, decreases significantly after 1000 hours. But personally, I wouldn't use 4:3 unless it was occasional. I prefer it stretched or zoomed anyway. All that wasted space bugs me.

I've got the same thing going - I thought I did everything right but it's hard to control an entire household. Panny 50" 600U I use black sidebars, I only see burn in with solid color, and the burn in looks brighter. What should I do? Not sure what the white scroll bar is but it seems it may not be worth it? thanks.

I am assuming that when you say that the burn-in is brighter, you mean that the sidebars are brighter than the middle when you display a solid color. Correct?

If this is the case, switch to grey or white side bars when you watch 4:3. Every 30 minutes or so, switch to solid color screen and see if the brightness starts to even out between the side bars and the middle 4:3.

Once the burn-in goes away, Switch between using black and grey side bars. If you are watching dark shows or movies, use black side bars. When you are watching sports or bright shows, use grey side bars.

You'll have to check your screen on occation for burn in. If the side bars are dimmer than the middle 4:3, then you are using grey side bars too much. Swich to black until the screen evens out.

If the side bars are brighter than the middle 4:3, which is what you are seeing now, then you are using black side bars too much. Switch to grey until the screen evens out.

Will do. Thanks for the response.

I have what I believe to be a very slight burn in on my plasma tv and was wondering if I had a way around that. I bought my tv 3 months ago - right before the world cup - and have been very careful all that time. I have put over 100 hrs of viewing time on it as recomended by many different site I researched before buying the TV.

Two weeks ago I bought an XBOX 360 to complement my beautiful plasma TV, and have always been careful to turn it off whenever I walked away from the game for more than a couple of minutes. It seemed to me that the combination of the new tv and the xbox was a perfect marriage until last weekend.

When booting up the xbox I noticed a "shadow" on the top right and top left corners of my TV. Upon closer inspection I noticed that those were actually the score boxes of the game I had been playing the day before. I have not played the game since and I have been trying to use my tv as much as possible to see if the "shadows" would go away. I don't see them when watching TV, but on some solid color images I can certainly notice them.

When I bought the TV from BestBuy I bought the extended warranty (*cough* ripoff *cough*). The salesperson garanteed me that the extended warranty covered anything that could ever happen to my TV. The example he used was a customer who had dropped his TV on the parking lot of the store, and, according to him, the warranty covered that.

I was very excited with my new tv/investment and just took his word for it. Today I called bestbuy warranty services and they informed me that this is not covered under the warranty that I had purchased, which I do understand why it would cover burn-ins, but I also feel that I have been lied to. I have also been told today that the $300 warranty I purchased doesn't really cover anything on top of what the manufacturer's warranty does.


Since now I have found out that I am really on my own, I decided to look around and see if there are ways to minimize that or remove that. I usually don't see the so called "shadows", but just knowing they are there annoys the heck out of me.

So here is the question... what can I do to minimize the image burn in already in place?

I appreciate any and all help on this.

Here's my question, please advise:
My set has about 350 hours on it (not bad considering it's only been 6 weeks!) and I don't THINK I've seen any IR, unless of course what I'm about to describe is IR. To be clear, no matter what I watch or what video game I play, I have NEVER seen an after image on my during normal viewing. Nothing at all. What I do see, however, is a black outline of a given area (usually the Madden ticker, damn thing) when the screen is totally dark or there's no signal coming through- even then, I have to be less than a foot away to notice this. So, what do you think? Is this image retention or something else? Should I even care about it if it doesn't affect normal viewing? It takes a long time to go away, but should I drive my self nuts with something like this? Thanks-

My situation is the same as yours. My set easily has 200+ hours on it and I gave it the 100+ hr. break-in. I played madden for 45 min. on saturday and the bar and EA logo at the bottom are noticable during uni-color screens. Not while actual programming is on. On a black screen the madden ticker is darker than the rest of the screen. I have easily 30+ hrs. of viewing and have run the anti burn-in screens that the samsung HP-S5053 comes with for several hours and it is still there. It really worries me.

XBox claims yet another pair of victims. I keep saying don't play games on plasma TVs and people keep telling me I'm paranoid. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean my XBox isn't out to get my TV.

For the posters above who are experiencing burn-in or IR, if it is IR, it will become burn-in if you keep playing games on your plasma. If it is already burn-in, you have two choices: keep playing and live with the burn-in, or stop playing and allow the burn-in to slowly wear over time. If you stop playing, eventually it will probably even out.

Yeah, I've already decided to sell my Plasma and get a DLP. I was assured by fellow Plasma owners and sales people that gaming was plenty safe after break in as long as you didn't play for extended periods of time. But, I guess 45 min. was too long for my TV.I noticed that even the ESPN logo is still there and the most I've watched ESPN straight for is a couple of hours. I play a lot of games so I guess Plasma isn't for me.

Yeah, I've already decided to sell my Plasma and get a DLP. I was assured by fellow Plasma owners and sales people that gaming was plenty safe after break in as long as you didn't play for extended periods of time. But, I guess 45 min. was too long for my TV.I noticed that even the ESPN logo is still there and the most I've watched ESPN straight for is a couple of hours. I play a lot of games so I guess Plasma isn't for me.

Now that is kind of strange. Personally I have watched several hours straight of inHD, Sci Fi and Comedy Central, they all have fairly prominent logos, and I have never even had any image retention. In fact, I watch a lot of Fox News, and I have no trace of any retention or burn-in. Maybe it's my settings, maybe it depends on brand or specific set. I just don't know why some people have more trouble with it than others. But I do think plasmas aren't the best match for game consoles. Best of luck to you with the DLP. No burn-in, that's for sure!

Now that is kind of strange. Personally I have watched several hours straight of inHD, Sci Fi and Comedy Central, they all have fairly prominent logos, and I have never even had any image retention. In fact, I watch a lot of Fox News, and I have no trace of any retention or burn-in. Maybe it's my settings, maybe it depends on brand or specific set. I just don't know why some people have more trouble with it than others. But I do think plasmas aren't the best match for game consoles. Best of luck to you with the DLP. No burn-in, that's for sure!

Thanks. I've wondered if maybe it is the TV I have. Samsung HP-S5053. Out of curiousity I put a still image on the TV for about 5 seconds then switched to an all black background and the image was retained. I could read the text and everything. I don't know if that is normal or not and it went away after a few minutes of TV watching, but still...5 seconds? No wonder a static game ticker left on for 45 min. is still on there. I even have the picture settings pretty low. Contrast 40/100, brightness 40/100, sharpness 10/100, color, 30/100. The highest I've ever had these settings is 55,57,30,38, which still seems too dark for me. It just seems weird to me that I'm having so much image retention after 200+ hours at such low settings. I've also decided to give it another hundred hours with the break in DVD that can be found on these forums. And check what kind of image retention I get after that.

Thanks. I've wondered if maybe it is the TV I have. Samsung HP-S5053. Out of curiousity I put a still image on the TV for about 5 seconds then switched to an all black background and the image was retained. I could read the text and everything. I don't know if that is normal or not and it went away after a few minutes of TV watching, but still...5 seconds? No wonder a static game ticker left on for 45 min. is still on there. I even have the picture settings pretty low. Contrast 40/100, brightness 40/100, sharpness 10/100, color, 30/100. The highest I've ever had these settings is 55,57,30,38, which still seems too dark for me. It just seems weird to me that I'm having so much image retention after 200+ hours at such low settings. I've also decided to give it another hundred hours with the break in DVD that can be found on these forums. And check what kind of image retention I get after that.

I really think it is set dependent. Each manufacturer is different. I see on this thread a lot of Samsung and Panasonic owners complaining about IR. It was one of the deciding factors in me not getting a Panasonic. On my Pioner 6070 I played Oblivion for 2 1/2 hours the other day, no IR, and it has some VERY bright huds. I also played Halo 2 Sunday night for 2 hours. No IR.

I don't try to abuse the set, I do worry, and I take the game out and go to HD channel, but still, no IR to date.

Is the S5053 any less susceptible to burn-in than the panny 50U with it's anti-burn in technology? Seems not to be...

Strangely enough on this board I have seen more complaints about image retention from Pioneer owners. I have seen the least amount of complaints from Panasonic owners.

I own a 4360 Pionneer and can see a very slight image retention of my Bell Express vu tv guide visible only when srceen is white, that's weird because I go threw my tv guide very quilckly which only takes a few seconds, max 30 seconds. I have contrast set at only 15 and brightness -3 is this normal? I watch Discovery and other HD channels with corner logos for hours and don't get any image retention, can someone explain?

The good thing about my Express vu satellite HD receiver it automatically stretches images, basically when I'm viewing standard non HD stations it will adjust picture accordingly, so no black side bars ever, it avoid me to adjust my tv everytime I change station.

GFollano

When you complain about IR, is this something you can see during normal viewing?

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Transparent/index.html

I own a 4360 Pionneer and can see a very slight image retention of my Bell Express vu tv guide visible only when srceen is white, that's weird because I go threw my tv guide very quilckly which only takes a few seconds, max 30 seconds. I have contrast set at only 15 and brightness -3 is this normal? I watch Discovery and other HD channels with corner logos for hours and don't get any image retention, can someone explain?

The good thing about my Express vu satellite HD receiver it automatically stretches images, basically when I'm viewing standard non HD stations it will adjust picture accordingly, so no black side bars ever, it avoid me to adjust my tv everytime I change station.

GFollano

The logos are probably more like transparent water marks - nothing like the solid bright edges of the guide.
30 seconds at a time isn't the issue - it is accumulative, so if you look at your guide a lot, it adds up unfotunately.

When you complain about IR, is this something you can see during normal viewing?


Well, It is during dark shows/movies. If I'm watching a horror movie for example and they are in a dark place or if it's night I can see the EA logo and score bar at the bottom. Also the ESPN logo. I easily have 60+ hrs. since I played madden and it's still there. It has gotten better but is still viewable, even at long distances.

Well, It is during dark shows/movies. If I'm watching a horror movie for example and they are in a dark place or if it's night I can see the EA logo and score bar at the bottom. Also the ESPN logo. I easily have 60+ hrs. since I played madden and it's still there. It has gotten better but is still viewable, even at long distances.

what is the total time on your TV?

what is the total time on your TV?

I would guess we're closing in on the 300 hr. mark and we've had the TV approx. 2 months.

I would guess we're closing in on the 300 hr. mark and we've had the TV approx. 2 months.

So you played your games around the 200 hour mark?
...that may have been too soon.
I don't plan to play games at all, but if I did, I wouldn't be doing it until past the 1000 hour mark.

I am also at around 300 hours on my Pioneer 4360 PDP, and although I have raised the settings from "break-in" to a more normal viewing look, and now watch movies with black bars; I still plan to stretch all 4:3 content and avoid bright static images for a long time.

Maybe plasma isn't for you.

My Panasonic 42PH9UK will be arriving tomorrow morning and could someone provide some cautious burn-in settings for the first 100 hrs? I tried searching but I could not find anything specific. The best I could find was similar to Panasonic's recommendations of keeping settings of contrast, brightness etc below 50%. Anybody have more specifics? I won't be doing any 4:3 viewing as I will stretch any 4:3 content and 2.35 content I will zoom. Thanks!

Thanks Schteevie

Yes I do use the guide alot, I will stop. Is this concidered a burn in or image retention, can it be fixed?

GFollano

I've yet to have any problems with IR on my TH-42PX60U. Played Saints Row for 2.5 hours last night, no IR. It's seems the new model, the less IR.

Thanks Schteevie

Yes I do use the guide alot, I will stop. Is this concidered a burn in or image retention, can it be fixed?

GFollano

no way to be sure if it is IR or burn-in.
time will tell if it goes away.

as far as alternatives to using the guide, there are many good websites that have local TV listings.

I use this one:

online listings (http://www.zap2it.com/)

just had my first burn in/ image retention problem. After playing madden 07 360
for a three hours a day over a few day period i now have a faint but detectable ea logo and ticker tape on my 42" panny plasma. I have noticed minor ghosting in the past but it always goes away quickly. this has been there for a week now.

anyone have a similar problem? how can i fix it? it does not seem to be burn in but more like image retention if i understand the difference between the two.

you really can't see it when watching tv (unless you look really closely on certain frames.
you can see it when the screen is black or light and it still very faint.

bottom line. i know its there and i want it to go away. the store i purchased it from says the extended warranty i purchased does cover burn in, but i would rather fix it/
i love this tv!

any suggestions?

I just got my Xbox360 2 weeks ago after i had about 500hrs on my Plasma TV and i have been playing GRAW, PGR3, and Dead Rising the most. All of them leave IR on my Panny 42PX60 after playing 1-2hrs. Things like Speedometers, GRAW Green HUD, and Dead Rising's "killed" and mission side bar leaves an IR. So the IR still clearly visible especially on white backgrounds, but it goes away with a couple hours of TV watching filling up the screen. I can see them fading away gradually. While it is annoying having to be cautious of how long u can play video games, it is the price u have to pay for having a Plasma TV it seems. I have my current picture and brightness settings on +2 and -3 color, -5 tint, and -3 sharpness. I noticed when i had mine running on calibrated settings with brightness +5 and Picture +12 with the same tint, sharpness, and color settings, IR from my gaming stays a lot longer and it is harder to get rid of. I have since lowered it to +2 for both brightness and picture for now. Perhaps IR will be less significant when i get up to 1000hrs+ on it and i will attempt to put my brightness and picture higher to see if it is better.

just

bottom line. i know its there and i want it to go away. the store i purchased it from says the extended warranty i purchased does cover burn in, but i would rather fix it/
i love this tv!

any suggestions?

What store?

Circuit Citi......I even called just to ask them again if the warranty covers burn in...
they said it does.....i'll believe it when i see it. the shadowed image is a lot fainter then it was a week ago...hopin it goes away all together. won't be playing madden 07 anymore though....never had a problem with any other games i have played for same amount of time.

Apologies if this has already been covered. What is the comparative risk of burn-in between watching 4:3 material on a plasma vs. watching letterboxed material?

4:3 and 2.35:1 have equivalent risk of burn-in, assuming that you are using black bars for both. The risk is not the same if you are using grey or white bars for 4:3

Circuit Citi......I even called just to ask them again if the warranty covers burn in...
they said it does.....i'll believe it when i see it. the shadowed image is a lot fainter then it was a week ago...hopin it goes away all together. won't be playing madden 07 anymore though....never had a problem with any other games i have played for same amount of time.

Circuit City's extended warranty DOES cover burn-in. Good luck.

Circuit City's extended warranty DOES cover burn-in. Good luck.

I'd like to see the quote of that fact from the warrenty.
Does Best Buy's EW say something similar?

4:3 and 2.35:1 have equivalent risk of burn-in, assuming that you are using black bars for both. The risk is not the same if you are using grey or white bars for 4:3

Thanks.

I thought burn-in wasn't suppose to be a problem with LCD TV, but my samsung LNS3292D manual stated that I shouldn't watch in 4:3 mode or still picture for more then 2 hrs or burn-in can occur. Are they just being cauitous or can burn-in occur in LCD also?

Yes burin's happen with any flat panels. It's just that LCDs are much less prone to burnin than the plasmas. I have LCD, CRT, and plasma screens and I don't let static image just sit there for a long time. I keep the desktop color black, all icons hidden including the taskbar for computer use. For movies I run full screen whether they're 4:3 or 2.35:1 so I get no black bars. This is to evenly use up the life of the panel. The keyword "evenly" is very important here... study study study.

Hey guys, just picked up a Panny 50 9UK. I was wondering what people's break-in settings are for the unit (picture, brightness, sharpness, color temp etc)... thanks!!

Circuit City's extended warranty DOES cover burn-in. Good luck.

Thanks for your response. Do you know this from your own experience?

ABSURDITY OF 15% LIMITATION OF 4:3 VIEWING FOR BURN-IN WARRANTY DENIAL : Per Service Menu I now have 291 hours on my Hitachi : 42HDS52A of which I have calculated 270 hour was viewing full widescreen content including some 2:35:1 (horizontal black bars) and 21 hours of vertical black bars 4.3 content. Thus, 93% of viewing was full screen content and only 7% 4:3 with vertical black bars. Based on Hitachi's and any other plasma manufacturers mandate to protect warranty coverage by limiting, e.g. "restricting" vertical black bar 4:3 viewing to 15% I deduced I now have a built up reserve of 40 1/2 hours (270 hours x 15% = 40.5) to "consecutively" view many of my collection of 4:3 DVDs with black bars. Should I experience burn-in and if warranty denied ----------- I highly doubt Hitachi or any other Plasma manufacturer could prevail in Small Claims Court (most have $5,000 maximum claims being less than majority of Plasma prices) by using 15% must as a defense for warranty denial based on alternate use of 4:3 thus intermixed with full content viewing. I cite from my Hitahci Owners Manual:

RE Black or Gray Side Panels for 4:3 viewing: "Use this mode for only 15% of your TOTAL viewing time to prevent uneven aging of the phosphors." See above re my percentages of my TOTAL viewing time in both 4:3 and full content. Moreover, nothing is mentioned in manual to restrict anything but SIDE Panels.

As to absurdity of any denial of warranty for burn-in holding up in any Small Claims Court based on allocation of 15% to non consecutive 4:3 viewing of built up hours per 15%. I would think any manufacturer would not show up in Small Claims Court and lose based on above and thus establish precedence. By merely not showing up in Court manufacturer would lose by default judgment but not establish precedence based on the merits.

I rest my case.

slannes

I was reading the Samsung LN-S5797's manual and on page 2 at the bottom there is a blurb which i find very strange. Keep in mind that this is a LCD monitor.

It says:

Precautions When Displaying a Still Image
A still image may cause permanent damage to the TV screen.
• Do not display a still image on the LCD panel for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention. This image retention is also known as "screen burn".
To avoid such image retention, reduce the degree of brightness and contrast of the screen when displaying a still image.
• Watching the LCD TV in 4:3 format for a long period of time may leave traces of borders displayed on the left, right and center of the screen caused by the difference of light emission on the screen. Playing a DVD or a game console may cause a similar effect to the screen. Damages caused by the above effect are not covered by the Warranty.
• Displaying still images from Video games and PC for longer than a certain period of time may produce partial after-images. To prevent this effect, reduce the ‘brightness’ and ‘contrast’ when displaying still images.

?????????

LCD's don't experience screen burn in. Do they???? I've got the Westinghouse 47W1 which I use as a PC monitor. There are stationary images all over the place for hours and hours on end, this forum for example!! Now I haven't noticed anything strange yet, but I don't want damage the set. T

Could the 5797 be some sort of hybrid panel??? The manual says TFT-LCD so it sounds standard to me.

That blurb would also lead me to believe that they expect you to zoom in your 2.35 movies to fill the entire screen to reduce the chances of "burn-in"??? You've got to be kidding me. Speaking of that, are plasma owners expected to do this??? An almost identical blurb resides in the Samsung plasma manuals as well.

The reason i'm here is that the 5797 is, other than the Westinghouse, one of the only panels that will apparently accept 1920x1080 from a PC. 1 to 1 pixel mapping on the 47w1 is amazing, except that it is only 47 inches. Do you see where I am heading....

Can someone give me the link for that break in DVD download?

Thanks

I believe the LCD manufacturers would want to call it a Persistent Image. God forbid a LCD could have "burn in" like those mean nasty plasmas! ;)

Check out this article.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/615-1/lcds-with-persistent-images.html

Kinda ominous sounding isn't it, the way this article talks about cells having crystals that get stuck?

.

Yes you can burn in a LCD... its all relative and just protection from the company from potential lawsuits. It would have leave a static image for a SUBSTANTIAL, I am talking days here, to burn in an image. Granted if you have in torch mode it could come much faster.

Can someone give me the link for that break in DVD download?

Thanks
http://www.eaprogramming.com/

Your reference states:
"
The good news is that it isn´t an irremediable burn in which happens in some plasmas. According to LG, the problem only happens with fixed images."

They identify three categories which seem to address computer monitor screens more than televisions - the first issue does address TVs.

The Image retention would be a phenomenon visible on some LCD TVs. These are very furtive persistent images that last a few milliseconds. You just have to change of scene for the image to disappear completely.

Sticking appears with the Overdrive. Because of the latest overamplificatons to reduce response time by a few milliseconds, cells wouldn´t be able to entirely evacuate their load. This would be the most common phenomenon at least for IPS and VA technologies. According to our manufacturers, the only method of removing defects would be to switch off the monitor during the same amount of time as the persistent image has been displayed.

Stained LCD. Only public displays are concerned, those that are intended to display commercial messages in stores for example. The liquid crystals get stuck and to remedy this, LG´s method consists in pushing the brightness and contrast to a maximum for several hours.

Newsyl - Stuck pixels are known as 'dead pixels'

I have Dual 20" BENQ LCD PC monitors at the office that are just over a year old that are both showing burn in at the upper left corners (and spreading). I use them primarily for AutoCad applications and the logo image is retained long after the application is closed. I flip through 3-4 programs through out an 8 hr day.

I often let the computer run 24 hrs a day but only with a Screen Saver when not in use. So its not impossible the have IR or Burn In on an LCD monitor under normal use.

I dont use my new PDP 5070HD for anything other than DVD's, HD Broadcasts and the odd SD program if its not available on a HD channel.

I have no problem with burning out a $200-$300 LCD monitor every other year,
...but I refuse to take any chances on my new Favorite Toy :D

i wouldn't sweat it, the time it takes for image retention is far more than 'burn-in' associated with a plasma. for any person using a lcd tv/monitor for home use should never have this problem.

<<I was reading the Samsung LN-S5797's manual and on page 2 at the bottom there is a blurb which i find very strange. Keep in mind that this is a LCD monitor.

It says:

Precautions When Displaying a Still Image
A still image may cause permanent damage to the TV screen.
• Do not display a still image on the LCD panel for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention. This image retention is also known as "screen burn">>

I've been using a Sharp AQUOS LC-37HV4U 16 hrs/day for over 3 years. Most of that time, the set's been tuned to D*'s music channel with the title bar fixed at the bottom of the screen. For a much shorter duration, the old Hitachi CRT in another room had displayed the same title page. When I gave the CRT to Goodwill, it had an obvious burned-in bar at the bottom. The Sharp LCD screen shows absolutely no anomalies. It's been a great set that I also use as a PC monitor. I just wish the new AQUOS models had DVI connections.

thats interesting, I had a Sharp Aquos 37D4U, played Halo 2 non-stop since day 1 for 8 hrs strait (maybe more), and suffered no burn-in, or problems as I am fixing to discuss:

Just got me a Sony 40XBR2, played a little Call of Duty 2, and every time I perform a malee attack, I get this weird motion blurr effect along with a color distortion. very very strange. It doesnt occur in the beggining, but after about an hr-or-so, I get this anamoly.

Has anybody had any experience getting rid of the EA Sports logo in the bottom left corner of your plasma? My Pioneer 5060 has well over 500 + hours so I figured it would be ok to play some of the game, but the faint outline of that logo is still around (after 1 - 2 hours of playtime) and I have stopped playing the game for several days and have gone to constant full-screen, no logo, HD material as well as doing the "screen wash" test pattern. I can still see the faint haze of the logo and it is annoying because I have done everything I could to be a "responsible" plasma owner and this is the first sign of burn-in that I have had.

Is there any hope to wiping out the logo? Is the only chance just continuing the screen wash cycle over and over and pray?

Thanks!

- Josh

I just got done browsing some of the other posts in the thread and it seems I am not the only one to have my first burn-in experience as the EA logo from Madden 07!! If you are a plasma owner be careful when playing this game. It doesn't take long to leave a lasting image on the Pioneer.

I just got done browsing some of the other posts in the thread and it seems I am not the only one to have my first burn-in experience as the EA logo from Madden 07!! If you are a plasma owner be careful when playing this game. It doesn't take long to leave a lasting image on the Pioneer.

Played it for 2 hours with my brother with no problems on my screen afterwards.

Played it for 2 hours with my brother with no problems on my screen afterwards.

you should mention what model display you have, what the settings and total time are.

also - did you test the screen with solid full screen colours?
- sometimes that is what it takes to notice initial IR/burn-in.

you should mention what model display you have, what the settings and total time are.

also - did you test the screen with solid full screen colours?
- sometimes that is what it takes to notice initial IR/burn-in.

Pioneer 6070. about 300 hours. Using D-nice's settings, but a couple settings higher by about 2 for contrast.

I haven't specifically gone out of my way to put something into the TV that I would never watch just to see if something is wrong. But I have watched movies that show white on the whole screen (i.e. Day After Tomorrow, Ice Age) just recently and there was no IR. I also play a LOT of games and a lot of time there are solid colors. In addition, when I switch to other inputs with no signal there is nothing on the screen (i.e. no IR).

Pioneer 6070. about 300 hours. Using D-nice's settings, but a couple settings higher by about 2 for contrast.

I haven't specifically gone out of my way to put something into the TV that I would never watch just to see if something is wrong. But I have watched movies that show white on the whole screen (i.e. Day After Tomorrow, Ice Age) just recently and there was no IR. I also play a LOT of games and a lot of time there are solid colors. In addition, when I switch to other inputs with no signal there is nothing on the screen (i.e. no IR).

EA needs to address this problem. Funny that NHL 07 has an option to turn off the ticker, why can't they do that in Madden? I don't have much of a problem with the ticker, it's that damn EA logo. Can't that at least be transparent? Visit, and SIGN this petition to get some notice:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Transparent/index.html

ABSURDITY OF 15% LIMITATION OF 4:3 VIEWING FOR BURN-IN WARRANTY DENIAL : Per Service Menu I now have 291 hours on my Hitachi : 42HDS52A of which I have calculated 270 hour was viewing full widescreen content including some 2:35:1 (horizontal black bars) and 21 hours of vertical black bars 4.3 content. Thus, 93% of viewing was full screen content and only 7% 4:3 with vertical black bars. Based on Hitachi's and any other plasma manufacturers mandate to protect warranty coverage by limiting, e.g. "restricting" vertical black bar 4:3 viewing to 15% I deduced I now have a built up reserve of 40 1/2 hours (270 hours x 15% = 40.5) to "consecutively" view many of my collection of 4:3 DVDs with black bars. Should I experience burn-in and if warranty denied ----------- I highly doubt Hitachi or any other Plasma manufacturer could prevail in Small Claims Court (most have $5,000 maximum claims being less than majority of Plasma prices) by using 15% must as a defense for warranty denial based on alternate use of 4:3 thus intermixed with full content viewing. I cite from my Hitahci Owners Manual:

RE Black or Gray Side Panels for 4:3 viewing: "Use this mode for only 15% of your TOTAL viewing time to prevent uneven aging of the phosphors." See above re my percentages of my TOTAL viewing time in both 4:3 and full content. Moreover, nothing is mentioned in manual to restrict anything but SIDE Panels.

As to absurdity of any denial of warranty for burn-in holding up in any Small Claims Court based on allocation of 15% to non consecutive 4:3 viewing of built up hours per 15%. I would think any manufacturer would not show up in Small Claims Court and lose based on above and thus establish precedence. By merely not showing up in Court manufacturer would lose by default judgment but not establish precedence based on the merits.

I rest my case.

slannes


Dude, I understand we each have a touch of loser in us, but seriously, get real man. Stop being such a psycho and enjoy your set. You're torturing yourself for no reason. Do you have burn-in? No you say. Then stop and watch buddy. You're trying to win a lawsuit in which you have no case. Your TV is fine and your theory is way off.

"I deduced I now have a built up reserve of 40 1/2 hours (270 hours x 15% = 40.5) to "consecutively" view many of my collection of 4:3 DVDs with black bars."

That may be the stupidest thing I've ever read. We know, as plasma owners, that doing things like consecutively is where we run the risk. Building up usable hours is like building up good will points, it means nothing. By a different set, Plasma's not for you. If you have this much time to scheme, you should have spent some time researching before making a purchase.

Sorry to be so negative, but really man.

"I deduced I now have a built up reserve of 40 1/2 hours (270 hours x 15% = 40.5) to "consecutively" view many of my collection of 4:3 DVDs with black bars."

That may be the stupidest thing I've ever read. We know, as plasma owners, that doing things like consecutively is where we run the risk. Building up usable hours is like building up good will points, it means nothing.

I think in this case the OP is actually correct (dispite the fact that he is an ignoranous).

Consecutive viewing is a non issue because the problems are cause by "cumulative" viewing of a certain thing - doesn't matter if it is consecutive or not.

That is why people who watch alot of sports with static score boards are fooling themselves if then think changing channels every few minutes (or commercial breaks) are going to "reset the IR clock".
5 hours of a static image aging pixles in one place can be all at once, or broken up on many 2 minute chunks - it still adds up to 5 hours, and if it is bright enough, and static enough, you can have a problem.

Is it true:

That a way to fix this is buy putting your TV on Air broadcast and having no attena hook-up which would cause a constant snowy or static picure (like having cable service disconnected), will fix this problem or other burn in problems? I've read this on wikepidia website and other forums that by doing this for a hour on your TV will depolarising the gas particles on a plasma and clear this up. One one website on guy explained that a TV Technician told him that at there repair shop they leave it on a plasma TV for 24hours to fix this. Is this true?

Is it true:

That a way to fix this is buy putting your TV on Air broadcast and having no attena hook-up which would cause a constant snowy or static picure (like having cable service disconnected), will fix this problem or other burn in problems? I've read this on wikepidia website and other forums that by doing this for a hour on your TV will depolarising the gas particles on a plasma and clear this up. One one website on guy explained that a TV Technician told him that at there repair shop they leave it on a plasma TV for 24hours to fix this. Is this true?

bah blah blah depolarizing gas blah blah...

You have to realize, burn-in is caused by uneven aging of the pixels, period.

If you "unevenly age" an area of pixels badly enough, static or any pther miracle cure "screen whipe" won't likely help, as these tricks are EVENLY aging the whole screen.

Static and what not may help clear up some IR as it is putting even wear on the whole screen, but as far as actual burn-in, the only real way to "fix it" is to reproduce an exact opposite negative image that caused the burn-in, and then age the rest of the screen to catch up with the burn-in part of the screen
- this is theoretically possible, but practically impossible.

O'K,..in a non sarcastic answer, has anyone else heard of this before? I don't think it will work also, just wanted some input and opinions on it?

Dude, I understand we each have a touch of loser in us, but seriously, get real man. Stop being such a psycho and enjoy your set. You're torturing yourself for no reason. Do you have burn-in? No you say. Then stop and watch buddy. You're trying to win a lawsuit in which you have no case. Your TV is fine and your theory is way off.

"I deduced I now have a built up reserve of 40 1/2 hours (270 hours x 15% = 40.5) to "consecutively" view many of my collection of 4:3 DVDs with black bars."

That may be the stupidest thing I've ever read. We know, as plasma owners, that doing things like consecutively is where we run the risk. Building up usable hours is like building up good will points, it means nothing. By a different set, Plasma's not for you. If you have this much time to scheme, you should have spent some time researching before making a purchase.

Sorry to be so negative, but really man.
You didn't get my point. My point is restricted viewing by a Plasma manufacturer due to an imperfect product technology (although improved somewhat) can't hold up in Court based on Limited Warranties. Which in the case of Plasmas is an absurd limitation. I know because I'm in the manufacturing business and we always lose especially when failure is due to outright "owner's abuse" of our products.

I'm looking out for the average six pack joe who buys a plasma and goes in debt to do so, has no conception what burn-in is but when it occurs he's told should have read the owners manual.

I'm not paranoid but do look to the day when SEDs arrive no matter what they cost.

End of my input! Be careful with your Plasma and obey the 15% rule for your own benefit and, of course, for the manufacturer's benefit -----------their bottom line.

slannes

does anyone know how to turn this thing off?? PM Me please. I dont want it causing burn in where that star thingy is!

O'K,..in a non sarcastic answer, has anyone else heard of this before? I don't think it will work also, just wanted some input and opinions on it?

I am sorry you thought my answer was sarcastic.

I am just annoyed by hearing stuff like that "depolarizing gas" crap, because that is what you will hear from sales people that don't understand the technology they are trying to sell.

Same with native resolution - in my experience, 4 out of 5 sales people in home theater departments of big box storets don't have a clue; but they'll confidently tell you every plasma screen is native 1080 :rolleyes: :mad:

does anyone know how to turn this thing off?? PM Me please. I dont want it causing burn in where that star thingy is!

I would also like to know about this.
I try to avoid channel surfing because I hate how bright the channel bar is.

maybe check the 8300 thread here:


SA 8300 tips/tricks (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586837)

Looking for some break-in settings.

I just bought a Pioneer Pro-1140HD. I've been running the burn-in DVD...full screen, I turned down the contrast to 20 and the brightness to -10. If there is anything I missed through these threads let me know.

I was trying to find the stuff D-Nice posted about breakin and optimal settings for this display.

Thanks

Should one be concerned during the first 100 to 200 hours with standard commericals (black bars) during HD programming? Or is that being a little overboard on dealing with burn in prevention?

Should one be concerned during the first 100 to 200 hours with standard commericals (black bars) during HD programming? Or is that being a little overboard on dealing with burn in prevention?

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard. no worries there.

Funny thing that they mention burn in on LCD monitors as I have never in my life seen it happen. The LCD panels we use at my company are at least 4 years old and they display the windows task bar 24 hours a day 7 days a week and there is no evidence of any problems

I also have a ViewSonic VX924 and have "0" problems with it displaying a static desktop for hours on end.........

When I bought the TV from BestBuy I bought the extended warranty (*cough* ripoff *cough*). The salesperson garanteed me that the extended warranty covered anything that could ever happen to my TV. The example he used was a customer who had dropped his TV on the parking lot of the store, and, according to him, the warranty covered that.

I was very excited with my new tv/investment and just took his word for it. Today I called bestbuy warranty services and they informed me that this is not covered under the warranty that I had purchased, which I do understand why it would cover burn-ins, but I also feel that I have been lied to. I have also been told today that the $300 warranty I purchased doesn't really cover anything on top of what the manufacturer's warranty does.

I completely relate to this experience. I purchased two appliances from Best Buy, and was told that my extended warranty covered basically "everything." Turns out that was not the case and now I have to go to a 3rd party and pay for the repairs myself.

In the future, go with Circuit City. They cover burn-in for sure and their warranties actually MEAN something. I'll never shop at Best Buy again, not for CD-R's, not for batteries, not for anything.

Here is what I have done:

1) Downloaded .nrg file from eaprogramming
2) Unzipped it
3) downloaded trial version of Nero 7
4) Made SVCD and burned on to CD-R

It is displaying white only. No other color. No gradual change of color to RGB.

Please help.

My new set is having a weird issue. I'm not quite sure if it's burn in or image rentention. I've had the TV now for 3 days and I just noticed the problem last night.

When I cycle through lighter shades like grey, lite green, etc. I can make out in the top left corner "Cable" and the box that surrounds it. Is the text and box from the TV's own display being burned into the tv?

Before anyone ask, yes I have the settings turned down 50% from normal. :)
It does seem like it's not as noticeable as I'm running Evangelo's break-in dvd right now.

I completely relate to this experience. I purchased two appliances from Best Buy, and was told that my extended warranty covered basically "everything." Turns out that was not the case and now I have to go to a 3rd party and pay for the repairs myself.

In the future, go with Circuit City. They cover burn-in for sure and their warranties actually MEAN something. I'll never shop at Best Buy again, not for CD-R's, not for batteries, not for anything.

Sorry to dissagree but....Circuit City does not cover burn-in with their warranty.
This is copied straight out of their warranty exclusions:


BURNED PHOSPHOR (INCLUDING IMAGE GHOSTING), PIXEL BURNOUT NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER’S SPECIFICATIONS,

Funny thing that they mention burn in on LCD monitors as I have never in my life seen it happen. The LCD panels we use at my company are at least 4 years old and they display the windows task bar 24 hours a day 7 days a week and there is no evidence of any problems

I also have a ViewSonic VX924 and have "0" problems with it displaying a static desktop for hours on end.........
LCDs really should never have IR/burn-in...but I did encounter one problematic LCD recently. We got a new G5 with one of those Apple Cinema displays (LCD). It looked great, but for some reason, leaving anything on screen for more than a minute would result in a ghost image of that object that would take a few minutes to fade away. It was extremely bizarre and I still don't understand why that occurs. I don't believe they've ever bothered to return the display, but it seems strange that you could see such vivid image retention so quickly. There is clearly some sort of defect there...

I've decided to pull the trigger on the last remaining Vizio P50HDM at my local Costco. Couple questions about the breaking DVD that I downloaded from the link in this post...

1) I played it last night for about 4 minutes and it just seemed to go from bright white to a light grey full fill of the screen. Is this all it does or does it change more as you leave it.

2) This 100 hour break-in period... Am I supposed to have this dvd playing non-stop for the first 100 hours??? No gaming, no dvds and no HD for 4 days??

2) This 100 hour break-in period... Am I supposed to have this dvd playing non-stop for the first 100 hours??? No gaming, no dvds and no HD for 4 days??

No, for heaven sake, no. Use your TV, enjoy it. A lot of people do not even use the DVD. The DVD is if you wanted to hurry along the break in period and you didn't have a high def channel, you can use this DVD like say at night when you are in bed. Don't run it during the day. Use your TV. You don't even need the DVD if you have a high def channel (Discovery works awesome). If the channel is high def and full screen then you can leave that on at night (if you want). Otherwise, just watch TV, enjoy.

No, for heaven sake, no. Use your TV, enjoy it. A lot of people do not even use the DVD. The DVD is if you wanted to hurry along the break in period and you didn't have a high def channel, you can use this DVD like say at night when you are in bed. Don't run it during the day. Use your TV. You don't even need the DVD if you have a high def channel (Discovery works awesome). If the channel is high def and full screen then you can leave that on at night (if you want). Otherwise, just watch TV, enjoy.

Thanks that's a relief! I assumed that was the case but was not sure. I do have to say though; after reading throught this thread a little, I am second guessing buying plasma since I do like to use my XBOX. This IR talk scares me a little. Should I just suck it up and buy the damn thing?

I have gone back and forth over the past couple years between the different technologies. Even bought a JVC HDILA RPTV and had it for a month - then returned it. I know, they all have their flaws but....

Thanks that's a relief! I assumed that was the case but was not sure. I do have to say though; after reading throught this thread a little, I am second guessing buying plasma since I do like to use my XBOX. This IR talk scares me a little. Should I just suck it up and buy the damn thing?

I have gone back and forth over the past couple years between the different technologies. Even bought a JVC HDILA RPTV and had it for a month - then returned it. I know, they all have their flaws but....

How long do you play a game on your xbox before switching it to another game? And, importantly, how much HD viewing will you do inbetween games? If it varies, and one game not more then 2 or 3 hours then get the plasma. However, if you have any doubts, just get the LCD, then guess what, no worries, no concerns, leave it on one game all day if you want. Picture quality will be fairly close (assuming you get a good quality LCD), so why suffer, just get the LCD.

By the way, I have the new generation Pioneer (70 series), 3 1/2 hours of Halo 2 and no IR. But you you are that worried, get the LCD and you will be happy.

How long do you play a game on your xbox before switching it to another game? And, importantly, how much HD viewing will you do inbetween games? If it varies, and one game not more then 2 or 3 hours then get the plasma. However, if you have any doubts, just get the LCD, then guess what, no worries, no concerns, leave it on one game all day if you want. Picture quality will be fairly close (assuming you get a good quality LCD), so why suffer, just get the LCD.

By the way, I have the new generation Pioneer (70 series), 3 1/2 hours of Halo 2 and no IR. But you you are that worried, get the LCD and you will be happy.

Well, there is the new 46" Vizio LCD at Costco as well. I just have not heard enough about it to be comfortable. I also realy want a minimum of 50". I suppose I could always just try out the 50 and if I have problems take it back and re-evaluate.

My wife wants to get a Panny plasma instead of a RP. I am leaning toward RP in spite of all the motion blur and other noise that I can detect because of the fear of burn on plasma sets. I read endless pages on this site and others about burn and IR and now I'm even more skittish of plasma. I think I can deal with the burn in period and being careful to avoid long progams with logos and tickers, etc. but the one thing I really do not care for is seeing 4:3 images distorted to fill the wide format plasma screens. IMHO it makes people look fat or skinnier than they really are and it drives me nuts. I couldn't find any information about whether or not it is a bad idea to watch 4:3 programs but I suspect it is not a good idea because of IR.

Any comments?

How long do you play a game on your xbox before switching it to another game? And, importantly, how much HD viewing will you do inbetween games? If it varies, and one game not more then 2 or 3 hours then get the plasma. However, if you have any doubts, just get the LCD, then guess what, no worries, no concerns, leave it on one game all day if you want. Picture quality will be fairly close (assuming you get a good quality LCD), so why suffer, just get the LCD.

By the way, I have the new generation Pioneer (70 series), 3 1/2 hours of Halo 2 and no IR. But you you are that worried, get the LCD and you will be happy.

WilliamR,

Just wondering if you got your tv replaced yet or not?

... IMHO it makes people look fat or skinnier than they really are and it drives me nuts. I couldn't find any information about whether or not it is a bad idea to watch 4:3 programs but I suspect it is not a good idea because of IR.

Any comments?

If you are going to watch standard definition in 4:3 mode, don't get a plasma. Plasmas can certainly handle plenty of 4:3 or 2.35:1 black bars safely, but if you watch mostly standard definition content and use 4:3, you will certainly experience burn-in.

One option you might consider, instead of stretching, is using Zoom mode. I use it quite a bit, it does not negatively impact image quality too much if you have a good quality cable/dish signal.

There are some downsides to RPTVs that pushed me away. The biggest one is SSE, silk screen effect, which makes the screen look sparkly and smeared. All RPs have this. And DLPs also suffer from Rainbow Effect.

Every technology has its downside. Plasmas for me certainly have the best picture, and are worth the potential burn-in downside.

I read endless pages on this site and others about burn and IR and now I'm even more skittish of plasma.

Any comments?

Keep in mind, forums like these almost do as much bad, as it does good when it comes to "IR fever". I wonder if some people even turn their tv's on - they seem so afraid of IR.

If it matters, 'stretched SD' tends to look much better on plasmas than others.

Keep in mind, forums like these almost do as much bad, as it does good when it comes to "IR fever". I wonder if some people even turn their tv's on - they seem so afraid of IR.

If it matters, 'stretched SD' tends to look much better on plasmas than others.
I'd like to second this with a personal observation. I don't watch much 4:3 programming on my plasma, but a couple nights ago, my wife and I were watching a 4:3 network show. I wanted to stretch the picture, and grabbed the satellite remote first. A few minutes after doing this, my wife commented how "squatty" the people looked, and I agreed -- the picture really looked pretty bad. During a commercial break when she left the room, I restored the picture to 4:3 and then used the *TV's* remote to do the stretching. Most good sets do a non-linear method of stretching, where they stretch the outer parts of the picture more than the center region of the picture -- check out a news ticker for a vivid demonstration of this. Anyway, the show resumed, my wife returned to the couch, and within a few minutes she asked me "What did you do to the TV? They don't look as fat as they did a minute ago." And keep in mind, my wife is not a discriminating listener/viewer; she's perfectly happy with nothing but 128k mp3s played through typical computer speakers or headphones, like most people. So if she noticed a difference in this "blind" A/B test, that means there's a real difference to the average user. Not that I would ever call my wife average. :D

My point is that you may not even be aware that you have more than one option for expanding 4:3 programming to 16:9, and those options might be quite different. You're probably not going to get as good a result if you let your cable/sat box do the stretching as if you let your TV do it. At least that's my experience with my combination of Dish service and Hitachi plasma. I'm very satisfied with the "4:3 Expanded" setting on my TV, especially since it's reducing my risk of side-bar burn-in. As they say, your mileage may vary.

-Brad

Well I bought the Vizo 46" LCD yesterday. I went into Costco to buy some trash bags and beer and simply could not believe the picture quality of this new set. I could hardly tell any difference between it and the Sony 1080p LCD that was on display as well.

Anyways, as far as I can tell there is no break-in period for an LCD correct?

WilliamR,

Just wondering if you got your tv replaced yet or not?

No. First on the list, just waiting for stock from Pioneer, they are currently out of stock. Any day now.

I've decided to pull the trigger on the last remaining Vizio P50HDM at my local Costco. Couple questions about the breaking DVD that I downloaded from the link in this post...

1) I played it last night for about 4 minutes and it just seemed to go from bright white to a light grey full fill of the screen. Is this all it does or does it change more as you leave it.

If you run it for more time, you will see going from white to grey, white to blue, white to green, white to red. This will brun RGB colors uniformly.

2) This 100 hour break-in period... Am I supposed to have this dvd playing non-stop for the first 100 hours??? No gaming, no dvds and no HD for 4 days??

Depends. If you want to use your plasma for gaming & TV viewing quickly, run for 100 hours. Otherwise, run for couple of nights, watch and enjoy the TV rest of the day.

Thanks for the responce. I actually ended up getting the Vizio 46" LCD this weekend and I am pretty happy so far.

The break-in does not apply to LCD, correct? I mean, you don't need to worry about burn-in so I would think not.

Sorry to dissagree but....Circuit City does not cover burn-in with their warranty.
This is copied straight out of their warranty exclusions:


BURNED PHOSPHOR (INCLUDING IMAGE GHOSTING), PIXEL BURNOUT NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER’S SPECIFICATIONS,

Sorry...that was my bad. One of the CC salesmen told me, "absolutely, the warranty covers burn-in." I was not convinced and walked up to customer service and asked if that was true and they went away for a minutes, came back and said "no, it doesn't." I thought of going back to the salesman and telling him he was wrong but he seemed like a good guy just trying to make a sale, so I didn't. Unfortunately, he's gonna keep telling that to other customers who don't know any better...so maybe I am regretting my silence now.

I was watching the ALCS playoffs in HD today and everything seemed fine. When I was done I watched a DVD and at the end it came to a beach seen where the screen seemed to go white. At that point I noticed that along the top of the screen the i could see the image of the ticker that was on the top of the screen during the entire game. I was a little worried and so i switched my tv to an HD channel and watched Criminal Minds. I don't see it now but when a sky scene shows up or certain color schemes I can still see the image though it has lessened.

Should I be worried?? I'm afraid that my TV is toast. I certainly don't want to spend the rest of the TV's life being reminded of the A's loss. I guess I'll find out tomorrow after the TV is cooled whether it is just a ghost or actuall burn in. If it is burned in will it go away eventually or is there something i can do?

Any help would be appreciated.

I was watching the ALCS playoffs in HD today and everything seemed fine. When I was done I watched a DVD and at the end it came to a beach seen where the screen seemed to go white. At that point I noticed that along the top of the screen the i could see the image of the ticker that was on the top of the screen during the entire game. I was a little worried and so i switched my tv to an HD channel and watched Criminal Minds. I don't see it now but when a sky scene shows up or certain color schemes I can still see the image though it has lessened.

Should I be worried?? I'm afraid that my TV is toast. I certainly don't want to spend the rest of the TV's life being reminded of the A's loss. I guess I'll find out tomorrow after the TV is cooled whether it is just a ghost or actuall burn in. If it is burned in will it go away eventually or is there something i can do?

You're probably fine; what you're describing is most likely image retention, not burn-in. The fact that it's lessened already is a very good sign. But some useful information for us if you're worried would be things like: how old is your set (# of hours of use if you know it)? What do you have your brightness (picture) setting at? When you first got your set, did you decrease the brightness and contrast for a while? Answers to these questions might help us gauge your level of "risk."

To answer your last question -- I don't want to sound too gloomy, but if it's burn-in, it's there forever. But like I said, if it started to go away after watching one full-screen show, it really doesn't sound like burn-in, so don't worry about it too much. One last thing that should be mentioned... turning the set off and letting it "cool" as you mentioned isn't going to make the retained image go away. It's not going to make it get worse, but the only way to make it better is to use those pixels for something else. That's why it is generally suggested to mix up your use between material with static images (like sports tickers, video games, etc) and material with colorful, full-screen, moving images (DiscoveryHD is a favorite in this forum). Plasmas don't use that much power, so maybe you could find a channel that fills the screen with no permanent, non-translucent logos and let it go overnight. Again, Discovery HD = good, CNN Headline News = bad. :)

Good luck!
-Brad

You're probably fine; what you're describing is most likely image retention, not burn-in. The fact that it's lessened already is a very good sign. But some useful information for us if you're worried would be things like: how old is your set (# of hours of use if you know it)? What do you have your brightness (picture) setting at? When you first got your set, did you decrease the brightness and contrast for a while? Answers to these questions might help us gauge your level of "risk."

To answer your last question -- I don't want to sound too gloomy, but if it's burn-in, it's there forever. But like I said, if it started to go away after watching one full-screen show, it really doesn't sound like burn-in, so don't worry about it too much. One last thing that should be mentioned... turning the set off and letting it "cool" as you mentioned isn't going to make the retained image go away. It's not going to make it get worse, but the only way to make it better is to use those pixels for something else. That's why it is generally suggested to mix up your use between material with static images (like sports tickers, video games, etc) and material with colorful, full-screen, moving images (DiscoveryHD is a favorite in this forum). Plasmas don't use that much power, so maybe you could find a channel that fills the screen with no permanent, non-translucent logos and let it go overnight. Again, Discovery HD = good, CNN Headline News = bad. :)

Good luck!
-Brad


Thanks for the reply. I've had the TV since June of 2006. I've watched the TV a lot and I've always been careful. I decreased the factory settings off of vivid and down to standard. I haven't figured out how many hours I've watched the TV. I've got the newest Panasonic 50' that just came out in June. I can still see the image this morning that it has faded some more. It only seems to show up with certain colors mostly whites, off whites and grays, sky scenes etc. I'm hoping that it will continue to fade until it disappears all together. I'll try leaving it on discovery HD while I'm at work and I'll check it when I get home at lunch.

Sorry...that was my bad. One of the CC salesmen told me, "absolutely, the warranty covers burn-in." I was not convinced and walked up to customer service and asked if that was true and they went away for a minutes, came back and said "no, it doesn't." I thought of going back to the salesman and telling him he was wrong but he seemed like a good guy just trying to make a sale, so I didn't. Unfortunately, he's gonna keep telling that to other customers who don't know any better...so maybe I am regretting my silence now.

Not always the case. My former roomate, actually caused burn-in on purpose to get the latest model and it worked. He just left a dvd on pause for 2 days. I thought he was nutz (and he was), yet got a new TV out of it....

Just wanted to report on the methods I used to get rid of some nasty retention that I had about a week ago (EA Sports logo to be exact) - this is on a Pioneer 5060, so keep that in mind.

1) Left TV on Discovery HD at night for 3 hour intervals (I have the TV set to turn off after 3 hours).

2) Would run 5 successive 20 min minute cycles of the "screen wash" test pattern that is found in the service menu of the set. This is a vertical band of fluctuating RGB colors about 8 inches wide that moves slowly and horizontally across the screen for approx 20 minutes.

I had monitored the status of the retention through this process and found it to be a very gradual process but now that I look for it I cannot even find a hint of it left so I am quite happy.

Just thought I would say that something I learned on here has helped me out!! Thanks!!

- Josh

Just wanted to report on the methods I used to get rid of some nasty retention that I had about a week ago (EA Sports logo to be exact) - this is on a Pioneer 5060, so keep that in mind.

1) Left TV on Discovery HD at night for 3 hour intervals (I have the TV set to turn off after 3 hours).

2) Would run 5 successive 20 min minute cycles of the "screen wash" test pattern that is found in the service menu of the set. This is a vertical band of fluctuating RGB colors about 8 inches wide that moves slowly and horizontally across the screen for approx 20 minutes.

I had monitored the status of the retention through this process and found it to be a very gradual process but now that I look for it I cannot even find a hint of it left so I am quite happy.

Just thought I would say that something I learned on here has helped me out!! Thanks!!

- Josh

Josh:

What I did to eliminate the evil ESPN-HD logo was to run the burn in disc available from the first post on this thread for 8 hours straight. Did the trick for my 5060 Pioneer.

The Xbox 360 visualizer is always good for screen clearing as well.

I have a concern with the break-in DVD...has anyone noticed that some of the images may have some compression or most likely a form of gradation (a gradient)?

I had tried the break-in DVD but I noticed this on the white and light grey patterns. My fear is that even with full-screen differing colors continually looping you would have that same faint line of gradation present and this could cause its own retention.

I know I am overanalyzing...but still there is that possibility.

I still think that Discovery HD is the better choice for something that you can leave on for a long period of time.

I've got a question about fixing burn in but first I'll tell you the story. (skip to the bottom if you don't want to read the story).

I have a Hitachi 51' Rear projection HDTV that I bought nearly 5 years ago. I bought the TV at TruTone electronics in Toronto (probably closer to Missassauga actually) and I bought the 5 year extended warranty with it for $400. About 4 months ago I noticed burn in on the TV. After closer inspection it appears that the HUD from Halo 2 had been burned into the screen. I stopped playing the game for about 6 weeks and tried a "snow job" which did not help at all. I then phoned up TruTone and told them that my TV had a burned in image (I didn't tell them what the image was of course otherwise they would have blamed it on me). So they sent a guy to inspect the TV and sure enough he said that he could cleary see that there were a few areas that were burned in. He opened the TV and I think he said that a few bulbs were burned (where the burned in images were located). The inspector then said that he would report all of this back to TruTone to see if it is to be covered under the warranty. So I phoned TruTone back a few days later (yesterday actually) and they said that it is fully covered under the warranty since the burn in was not my fault and was not due to abuse. This brings me to my question.

The TruTone guy said that they have ordered new "blue and red guns" for the TV and that they will send someone to replace the ones in the TV with them as soon as they receive them.

My question; what exactly are these "guns"? How do they go about replacing them?

On a side note, I was really pleased that burn in was covered under the warranty since it seems like, according to this thread, burn in is usually not covered under warrantys.

I am seriously considering upgrading to a 42" Panasonic plasma but I
have a concern.
I play alot of NHL07 and Madden on my Xbox 360 and am
worried about the scoreboards possibly causing burn-in on a plasma.
Should I be worried about this or have modern plasma's eliminated
these problems ?

I game on my Panny 4260u and so far I only get IR that lasts a few minutes. I put in about 4 hours of lego star wars 2 every day and end up with a few minutes of an xbox live arcade game to change up the video. I don't even think this is needed but it makes me feel better. No problems so far.

I am seriously considering upgrading to a 42" Panasonic plasma but I
have a concern.
I play alot of NHL07 and Madden on my Xbox 360 and am
worried about the scoreboards possibly causing burn-in on a plasma.
Should I be worried about this or have modern plasma's eliminated
these problems ?


Someone earlier in the thread stated that the NHL 07 has the option of turning off the ticket, which is AWESOME! However, Madden 07 is going to be very troublesome. I take a great deal of precaution when playing any games on my Pio plasma but I still had some really bad retention of the Madden 07 EA Sports logo. So far, the EA Sports logo found in the bottom left of the screen had been the only real threat and I have played quite a few Xbox 360 games on the panel. Hope this helps!

I am seriously considering upgrading to a 42" Panasonic plasma but I
have a concern.
I play alot of NHL07 and Madden on my Xbox 360 and am
worried about the scoreboards possibly causing burn-in on a plasma.
Should I be worried about this or have modern plasma's eliminated
these problems ?

Don't play on Madden 07 on a plasma!

Don't play on Madden 07 on a plasma!

Agreed. Madden is horrible for plasmas. The 'score bar' never moves once regardless of what going-on. NHL 2k7 (not EA) is a worry-free game for plasma's. the ticker disappears during cut scenes, replays, etc.. You'd figure some people at EA would have an older plasma or two at home...

others I've played:

Saint's Row: B+ (as long u do missions & such)
Table Tennis: A+
COD2: D+(HUD never moves)
PGR2: B (races are short)
MLB2k6: A+
Most XBLA games: F
Fight Night: A+

Don't play on Madden 07 on a plasma!


man, if im going to have problems with madden on a plasma, then i might as well not get one, as madden and other sports games are about all i play. though its not like i sit playing them for 4hrs at a time.

man, if im going to have problems with madden on a plasma, then i might as well not get one, as madden and other sports games are about all i play. though its not like i sit playing them for 4hrs at a time.

It doesn't matter if you go for 4 hours or 40 minutes. I played one game, 5 minute quarters and it was horrible. I had to leave the set on overnight static to get rid of it. I use my TV for television and movie viewing only now. Kinda sucks. I bought a 20" LCD monitor for gaming. Not as big, but not having the worry makes it much more enjoyable.

For what it's worth, I've started a pathetic on-line petition to bring transparent logos to games. If you have a minute, please sign it.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Transparent/signatures.html

Hi guys.

Looking to get another TV. Though I have finaly given in enough to add LCD to add to the list of possibilities. I think Plasma will make me happier for TV, HD and DVD viewing than LCD.

However this baby will getting A LOT of 4:3 material. Old TV shows, kids stuff, old console games etc. About 30% usage will either 4:3 material or console games as old as the original Atari 2600 and original NES (Nintendo).

Is burn-in a concern on the current generation of plasmas?

I have been into HT for at least 10 years and this was always a concern with plasma. about a year or two ago I had read a few articles and threads in forums like this fine one stating that this was no longer an issue.

One even said that there could be the "appearance" of burn in but that after a while it went away as you play other material on the set.

So what is the final verdict? If I buy say a Panasonic or Pioneer 2006 model, should I worry about burn in?

YES you definitely should. If you properly break it in for 300 hours and vary your viewing habits you will be much less prone to burn in or IR, but it will ALWAYS be an issue, however slight or major.

That is a high content of 4:3, games, etc. I would recommend the LCD. You might not get burn in (or you could if it is abused) but you are more likely to get IR. Why not stick with a technology that you don't have to worry about that.

With that said, I have a newer generation Pioneer (70 series), heavy gaming (4 1/2 hours of one game) no IR, but I don't watch any 4:3, I always stretch it or watch high def channels. And we watch a lot of it. If I was going to get a set for just gaming, I wouldn't hesitate to get LCD. But since we watch so many movies, and high def channels, I went with Plasma and love the thing to death. Still amazes me on the quality/picture.

I would agree with Mongoos and WilliamR. Todays plasmas are much less likely to be effected by any kind of imagine retention but its still very possible. Considering the amount of 4:3 content and gaming I'd also recommend LCD. What screen size are you looking for? The large format LCDs have really come down in price this year so even a 46" LCD is very affordable this year. You can even go with a 1080p LCD over a 720p plasma for not much more.

well thanks Mongoos150. I thought so I guess. Was almost hoping. Would you say the risks are about the same as CRT? less?

thanks for the input guys.

Well I was thinking about 32" to 37" LCD.

Obviously Plasma would more likely be 42" despite the existence of a 37" plasma.

Thing is I am very picky on PQ. Even if actual DVD movie watching will fall under 30% I know I will be wishing it looked nicer whenever I would watch some.

I want this to become the living room TV.

Everyone is watching TV on the 65" CRT RPTV in the basement that I was hoping would be a dedicated HT room. Has become the family room and no one wants to be in the living room much less watch TV there.

Don't want to see burger time or Mario Party 3 on my 65" anymore if you know what I mean. Blue's Clue's and Elmo can go upstairs!

I'll try to add 2¢ while keeping it short.

I was super worried about 4:3 and burn-in when shopping. We watch a lot of 4:3; we have a lot of old TV seasons on DVD. I always preferred widescreen when available for movie DVDs, so we were ahead of the curve there. In hindsight I worried too much.

First, break in properly. Keep the screen filled for a few hundred hours. This isn't that long if you're even moderately heavy users. Then relax. No one should tell you burn-in is gone, but I swear you have to abuse these new TVs like crazy to make it happen. It may not be equal to the risk with CRT, but it really seems to be near that.

For example, many movies are 2.35:1. This gives you black bars top and bottom. You never hear people freaking out about it (except the people who just don't like it). No one ever seems to fear or complain about burn-in from scope movies, just 4:3, but the risks are exactly the same.

Will this be your first widescreen? It sounds like it, or at least your first flat panel widescreen. If so let me just suggest you get a panel that has a good mode for filling 16:9 with 4:3. Just zooming throws away too much picture; just stretching makes things look too short and stout. Most sets have one setting that rocks; it zooms a little and stretches a little - cropping just the very top and bottom and stretching the left and right edges more than the center. At first it seems just a little strange; now I almost never even notice it; when it bugs me I switch to 4:3 with bars and I don't worry about it.

Mike

looking for 42 plasma and watch international channel (meaning 4:3) usually for long stretch at a time.
mkjnovak- can you point me as to which tv has the non-linear stretch and crop feature that you talked about.

I'm curious as well.

looking for 42 plasma and watch international channel (meaning 4:3) usually for long stretch at a time.
mkjnovak- can you point me as to which tv has the non-linear stretch and crop feature that you talked about.

The Hitachi plasmas have that feature. On my 42HDS69 I never use it as I watch 4:3 in its original aspect ratio with the grey bars on the side setting and have never suffered burn in. In fact, most of my tv viewing is still 4:3 and I have never had any problems. I mostly watch a lot of DVDs, SD versions for now, and even when the whole screen is not filled for hours on end I still don't have any problems.

NEC has a nice stretch mode. And their 42 inch set is very nice.

Hiyas peoples, I'm think of finally upgrading to HDTV, but I'm afraid of burn in since I'll still be mostly watching SD channels in 4:3. Also I have a habit of falling asleep with the TV on without setting sleep mode or leaving games on for long while. I know my LCD computer monitor has never had a problem with burn in. but they're different technologies. Anyways, how much do I have to worry about burning an image in on a modern LCD panels?

LCDs can't have burn-in. You may be thinking of image retention. This is when there is the ghosting of a static image for several hours after an image is no longer displayed. It is a temporary effect that does not damage the set in any way. Plasmas can still experience burn-in, but thanks to anti-burn-in technologies (like pixel shifting), burn-in is almost a thing of the past. Plasmas can also suffer from image retention.

Hiyas peoples, I'm think of finally upgrading to HDTV, but I'm afraid of burn in since I'll still be mostly watching SD channels in 4:3. Also I have a habit of falling asleep with the TV on without setting sleep mode or leaving games on for long while. I know my LCD computer monitor has never had a problem with burn in. but they're different technologies. Anyways, how much do I have to worry about burning an image in on a modern LCD panels?

Unless you sleep like Rip Van Winkle, literally, you should not get IR on your LCD and it is not a different technology at that level than your monitor so it is a good comparison

I recently got my early christmas toy (Pioneer Plasma PDP 6070/6071 HD) and so far i'm happy with it.
Accordingly to pioneer's website, I can't watch anything that doesn't fill the entire screen with content. That means that all my wide screen movies have to be view on zoom mode (screen size).
That's not cool.