The Basics
HDTV can be recorded in these ways:
· D-VHS
· HDTV Tuner PC Card
· Firewire Source to PC, Mac
· USB Source to PC, Mac
· HDTV DVR from Cable, DBS, OTA
· Blu-ray burner
· HD Camcorder

....from five potential sources:
· Digital Television (DTV)
· Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS)
· Cable
· C/Ku Band Satellite
· Live to video



D-VHS
Digital VHS is capable of recording and playing back the full 19+ Mbps data stream of ATSC HDTV broadcasts, including Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. There are different varieties of D-VHS decks, but all are essentially ‘bit buckets’, capable of recording HDTV and playing it back identically to the original broadcast. Typcially, an outboard source provided the HDTV signal via Firewire to the D-VHS deck, with only one D-VHS unit having a built-in DTV tuner. This approach also allows for HDTV copies using Firewire recording from D-VHS to D-VHS, D-Theater (prerecorded movies) excepted.

· Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U $749 ($549)
· Mitsubishi HS-HD1100U $549 ($395)
· JVC HM-DH40000 $999 ($537, D-Theater, component video)
· Marantz MV 8300 $1599 ($999, D-Theater, component video)
· JVC SR-VD400US (Pro D-Theater)
· JVC SR-VDA300US (Pro D-Theater Master Deck)
· JVC HM-DH5U $799 (HDMI, D-Theater)
· JVC HM-DT100U $1499 (HDMI, DTV tuner, D-Theater)
· Marantz MV8300 $1099 (Same as JVC HM-DH40000)
· Panasonic PV-HD1000
· JVC HM-DH30000



Firewire sources for HDTV Recording
· Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, Pace - Digital Cable STB's
· 169time
After market modification for adding Firewire HD output to specific STB’s.
http://www.169time.com/
Discontinued
· Mitsubishi HD6000 (DTV & Cable)
· MIT MDR-200 (DTV)
· Specific Mitsubishi integrated HDTV’s (DTV)
· Mitsubishi HDTV's compatable and equipped with the Promise Module (DTV)
· Specific Hitachi integrated HDTV’s (DTV)
· Samsung SIR-T165 (DTV)
· Key Digital KD-FIRE1080P HD Hanna $2999
http://www.keydigital.com/lprodi.asp?Ic=KDFIRE1080P
· Pioneer Plasma HDTV w/ Media Receiver CableCARD
· Various Firewire equipped HDTV's
· Panasonic TU-DST50 & TU-DST51 (DTV)
· Sony DHG-M55CV (Cablevision, still available)
· Mitsubishi HD5000 (DTV)
· LG LST3410a
NOTE: Not all Firewire equipped HDTV's can output HDTV via Firewire. See the manufacturers specifications for details.
Discontinued 8VSB HD Source:
· Dish 5000 w/HD Modulator



USB sources for HDTV Recording
· Nextcom R5000-HD
After market modification for adding USB HD output to specific STB’s.
http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/home.htm

· USB DTV Tuners
Capable of DTV reception, recording and playback. For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see the AVS HTPC Forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26



HDTV Tuner PC / Mac Cards
Capable of DTV reception, recording and playback. For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see the AVS HTPC Forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26



Firewire Source to Windows & Vista PC
For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see DVHSTool and other topics in the HDTV Recorders Forum.
PC recording of HDTV is made possible by Microsoft Windows XP & Vista native support for IEEE1394. The PC can be used as both a storage/ retreival device and a playback device. The PC's peripherals (hard drive, DVD drive) are used to store the HDTV signal that comes from compatible sources. Used as a retreival device the stored HDTV signal is played back through the IEEE1394 to a display device or other storage / communication device. Used as a playback device, various hardware and software HDTV signal decoders can be used to present HDTV video and audio for viewing.

To use the IEEE1394 interface in WinXP, specific support of the partiular model of unit with the IEEE1394 port is required. That is, the presence of a IEEE1394 port doesn't imply compatibility with Windows XP. Various drivers and applications software are required and available to use the JVC and Mitsubishi DVHS decks with Windows XP. For example, even though one "OTA only" model of the Samsung HDTV has IEEE1394, it cannot be used with Windows XP since there are no mating drivers. The 169time equipped DTC100 can be used with Windows XP.

My sincere thanks to AVS member h2ofun for providing this information.



Firewire Source to Apple Mac
A FireWire equipped Apple Mac running MacOS X 10.4 Tiger can function as an emulated DVHS deck for both recording and playback of OTA HD broadcasts. To accomplish this you will need the demo application VirtualDVHS2 which is included with Apple's Firewire SDK 20. VirtualDVHS2 should work with a variety of devices including most Mitsubishi HDTV's, the Samsung SIR-T165 STB, Mitsubishi HD-2000U and JVC DVHS decks. The FireWire equipped devices control all recording and timer functionality and the Mac simply acts as a DVHS deck. The improved GUI of VirtualDVHS2 simulates the front panel of a DVHS deck including record and playback buttons and a counter. Please note that the VirtualDVHS2 demo is really a refinement of a proof of concept rather than a supported Apple application although some forum members have had good results. Source code is also available so some enterprising developer may be able to wrap a polished GUI around this and ship a commercial product.

An AVS member has developed software, iRecord (http://www.ammesset.com/), using Apple's latest AVCVideoServices framework to record 5C copy-freely content from Motorola and S-A STBs equipped with FireWire. The software allows for timed-recordings and tuning channels.

The FireWire SDK 20 which includes VirtualDVHS2, source code, and other programs such as AVCVideoCap and DVHSCap can be freely downloaded from Apple developer site at the URL below. Be sure to read the readme included with VirtualDVHS2 for configuration info.

FireWire SDK 20 (ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/XFireWireSDK20c.dmg)

My sincere thanks to AVS members rcliff and jsb_hburg for providing this information.



HDTV PVR
Cable
· Scientific Atlanta
· Motorola
· Pace
· TiVo HD
Discontinued
Sony DHG-HDD 250 or 500

DBS
· Dish Network HD DVR MPEG4 compatable
ViP 612
ViP 622
ViP 722

· DirecTV HD DVR MPEG4 compatable
H20
HR21

OTA
· TiVo HD
Discontinued
Sony DHG-HDD 250 or 500



HDTV Camcorder
For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see the AVS Camcorder Forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=161


Blu-ray Burner
Coming soon.

Please read MODERATER'S NOTE at the top of this thread and, by all means, please contribute .

By contribute, we mean information, not money. Although we will accept donations of beer.


- markrubin & DrDon

Currently get my HD signal off a rooftop antennae (using Toshiba DTS3000 HD Tuner, i.e., without a dish), but also get Cox cable.

I don't have a digital box for cable so I get straight analog cable and record on a replay TV 5040 with lifetime subscription. I'd like to record in HDTV so I've considered following alternatives:

1) Sony HDD250-understand I can hook both cable and HDTV antennae on this at same time thereby eliminating ReplayTV and Toshiba DTS3000 HD - is that correct?

2) Sci Atl Explorer 8300-understand I can hook both cable and HDTV antennae on this at same time thereby eliminating ReplayTV and Toshiba DTS3000 HD - is that correct?

3) Does anyone know whether I will also need any sort of special cable access pass to get a channel guide into DVR (or can I do this by hooking an ethernet cable from DVR into my router and let the DVR pull info off internet), Or do I just need to forget about hooking cable up to one of these units)

4) I know first Sci Atl DVR, the 8000 got horrible reviews but 8300 is considered better; any sense how it compares to the Sony unit

5) Sometimes rooftop HDTV signal is intermittent; with one or both of these DVRs can I simultaneously record in analog and HD?

6) Are there any other DVRs I should consider?

I obviously don't want to pay Cox $20 each month to lease a DVR, plus fee for digital cable, etc. etc. and appreciate any advice I can get.

p.s. for my rec'v I use a Yamaha v2500 and my TV is a Toshiba 50H81 (4 years old without HDMI or other "newer" digital input hookups

Edit: the original Feb. 2006 date for the new unit (now called a Series 3) listed below didn't pan out. New time frame as announced at CES is "second half of 2006".

Over on the TiVo Community Forums, several members received verbal confirmation from front-line TiVo CSRs that the new stand-alone Hi-Def CableCard-based TiVo unit will be available starting in February 2006 (see note above). This unit would have the TiVo GUI and functionality, and be capable of recording SD and HD programming from over-the-air NTSC and ATSC broadcast sources, in-the-clear QAM cable sources, and (with the addition of a programmed CableCard) encrypted QAM cable sources. It is believed that this will be one of the first products to support the CableCard 2.0 (interactive two-way) specification.

Also, the Comcast-TiVo-partnered DVR is supposed to be available at the same time. All of this is expected to be confirmed at CES.

Appears to be another new Mac solution:

http://www.miglia.com/products/video/tvminihd/preview.html

Appears to be another new Mac solution:

http://www.miglia.com/products/video/tvminihd/preview.htmlThanks!! Incorporated into first post.

Doc

Also, the Comcast-TiVo-partnered DVR is supposed to be available at the same time. All of this is expected to be confirmed at CES.
I had heard that Comcast would be offering Tivo software as an alternative interface for their existing Motorola and SA DVRs. So, I assume you mean they will be offering the software upgrade to Comcast subs. in Feb.?

Over on the TiVo Community Forums, several members received verbal confirmation from front-line TiVo CSRs that the new stand-alone Hi-Def CableCard-based TiVo unit will be available starting in February 2006. This unit would have the TiVo GUI and functionality, and be capable of recording SD and HD programming from over-the-air NTSC and ATSC broadcast sources, in-the-clear QAM cable sources, and (with the addition of a programmed CableCard) encrypted QAM cable sources. It is believed that this will be one of the first products to support the CableCard 2.0 (interactive two-way) specification...It's my understanding that the TiVo unit is a dual-tuner HD recorder with two version 1.0 card slots instead of one.

It's my understanding that the TiVo unit is a dual-tuner HD recorder with two version 1.0 card slots instead of one.

The demo unit shown at last year's (2005) CES was a dual-card 1.0 device (one card per tuner). Comments coming out over the last few months indicated that the final production unit would rely on the CC 2.0 spec, which allows multiple feeds from a single card. Of course, there's no telling if anything will actually be announced this year...

I had heard that Comcast would be offering Tivo software as an alternative interface for their existing Motorola and SA DVRs. So, I assume you mean they will be offering the software upgrade to Comcast subs. in Feb.?

Yes, I believe that is what they are expected to do. Timeframe is a guess until an announcement, whenever that comes...

Will the standalone HD Tivo DVR work with OTA if you are not a cable subscriber?

Will the standalone HD Tivo DVR work with OTA if you are not a cable subscriber?According to this report, yes.
http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html

Why isn't the ATI HDTV Wonder listed among PC HDTV tuner cards?

Techbargains.com lists it as $85 after rebate from buy.com until 1/31/2006.

From original post: Firewire Source to Windows XP PC
For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see DVHSTool.


Where??? Is there a tools section I don't know about?

Where??? Is there a tools section I don't know about? No, but if you run a search in this forum for DVHSTool, you'll get the threads that contain the information.

According to this report, yes.
http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html
This is for the Series 3 Tivo which isn't out and won't be for quite a while. The OP (original poster) might have meant the Tivo you get for Direct TV that has OTA capabilities.. if so, I have read in many places that it will not work if you are not a satellite subscriber.

peter
p.s. link to product was censored when I tried to post but google search for it

In the synopsis is written:
... only one D-VHS unit [has] a built-in DTV tuner, the others [rely] on a Firewire interface to an outboard HDTV source.
OK: which D-VHS unit has the built-in ATSC tuner?

$500 more for just a 8VSB tuner. What good is it w/o a QAM tuner?

Yea, right...........

The link for the Key Digital KD-FIRE1080P HD Hanna is bad. This is just a scaler?

This device that is listed in the STB sticky is missing under HDTV PVRs';
Contemporary Research IP-HDVR $1799, PVR, QAM in the clear, Firewire

Great synopsis.

But, I saw no mention of the "coming soon" TiVo series 3 HDTV PVR.

Also, I suggest deleting the $999 price shown for the HD TiVo (HR10-250) from DirecTV, since the going price for purchase now is more like $399. Also, DirecTV is not selling them anymore, only leasing them (with an upfront fee of $400 IIRC).

I just registered to add a comment and a question about HDTV PVRs.

It seems like there is almost some kind of conspiracy going on with the cable companies, dish companies, and the TiVo types. Why are all of the "free" HDTV PVR options disappearing from the marketplace? Why did Sony discontinue their DHG models? Why did LG discontinue their LST model? It seems like more and more manufacturers are now abandoning a market that I would think should be booming.

Why are cable companies allowed to flat out lie to people asking about free QAM broadcasting of HDTV signals? I called Comcast and they flat out said that I had to have their box to receive HDTV programming over cable - which is completely untrue.

Are there any decent HDTV PVRs left that haven't been discontinued?

Why are all of the "free" HDTV PVR options disappearing from the marketplace? Why did Sony discontinue their DHG models? Why did LG discontinue their LST model?
Free? Sony's (500GB) box cost $1000! For all that, it didn't work very well. (I didn't buy it because I long ago had enough of Gemstar/TVGuide's incomptence.)

It seems like more and more manufacturers are now abandoning a market that I would think should be booming.
You and I both think that there is a market for these things, but maybe we all there is to it. Joe SixPack doesn't care (yet?).

Why are cable companies allowed to flat out lie to people asking about free QAM broadcasting of HDTV signals? I called Comcast and they flat out said that I had to have their box to receive HDTV programming over cable - which is completely untrue.
I heard that from Comcrap, too. I don't think the CSRs were lying, just stupid. They seemed genuinely surprised that my set could tune their HD signal without their box or CableCard. They hire any jerk off the street, after all.

Are there any decent HDTV PVRs left that haven't been discontinued?
None that I know of. I'd like to wrong.

almost some kind of conspiracy going on with the cable companies, dish companies, and the TiVo types. Don't forget the #1 group; the MPAA! :mad:
If they got their way, you would have to pay each and every time you wanted to watch something, even if you already bought a copy. :rolleyes:

I just recently found the smaller of the two Phoneys', er Sonys for $425 delivered. It was a scratch 'n Dent, but still haven't found any yet. :rolleyes: Once you get past the VD, er, TV Guide setup it seems to work ok, but I'm not at that point yet.

One reason that wasn't given, was the lack of education on the part of the manufactures just as JVC failed with the introduction of S-VHS and telling everyone you had to run out and buy a new set with/ a Y/C input. :(
At least that is what many thought, so they never bought into the format.

Granted, the Sony units were overpriced and the LG units had too many bugs (that could of been worked out), if the public woul;d be educated as well as the Cable companies brainwashed their customers into renting their box for the ease of adding PPVs' for the ones that are can't wait 3 or 6 months for the same movie to show on a regular premium service, or just have to the first one on the block to see the movie.

Probably about an hour after my post it hit me that for an additional $10/month or so anyone willing to subscribe to cable or dish systems can get the PVR/DVR system in the package. So I guess I understand what's going on... for now. I would certainly hope that in a few years when HDTV really is the reality for Joe consumer that non-subscription based solutions will once again proliferate and lower costs.

For me, there just isn't enough additional HD content available via expanded cable or dish solutions to make it worth it to me. I'm getting over a dozen HD signals OTA and I think I'm going to permanently add an outboard QAM tuner too. Too bad the Sony DHG and LG LST models didn't pan out too well - they certainly looked good on paper.

Why don"t they simply make an HDTV tuner/DVR unit for those of us who simply want to timeshift HD and analog broadcasts? There would be no expensive firewire involved and no worry about digital copying as the only output would be component, copy-protected DVI, or whatever to the TV.

I bought an HDTV capable TV a few years ago, but held off on buying an HDTV tuner since our market (Denver) has yet to get OTA signals of decent receivable strength. But when the time comes to buy an HDTV tuner, a recorder is mandatory for me since the majority of my viewing is timeshifted. It seems like Firewire is inflating the product prices as well as raising copyright issues. The D-VHS recorders with DTV tuner sounds like what I need in 1 unit but is more than the price of buying separate Firewire tuner and DVR; also in this day and age of hard drive technology and capacity, I'd rather have instant access rather than slow sequential tape which degrades over time. Also, what is the difference between a PVR and DVR? :confused:

HDTimeShifter,

It sounds like the upcoming TiVo series 3 unit is a good match for your needs for hard-drive recording from digital OTA (8VSB), digital cable (QAM) and analog OTA or cable channels.

A partial solution for non-HD would be a separate device, such as a TiVo series 2 DT (dual tuner) for cable analog signals (but NOT OTA analog) or an older series 2 for analog OTA (and analog cable, and digital cable when connected to a cable-company set top box).

Another alternative for analog OTA or cable timeshifting is a DVD recorder that includes a hard disk drive (HDD). Depending on brand and model, some HDD DVD recorders (sometimes called DVDR's, and sometimes confusingly called DVR's) offer on-screen program guides and/or VCR+ and manual recording by time and channel (like a VCR would).

I trust that you are aware that the cable companies are required to offer free (i.e., even with their most basic "limited" cable package for about $15 or less) digital channel reception, without their cable box (using a QAM tuner in your TV or PVR/DVR or external HDTV tuner) for any channels that they carry that you could otherwise receive OTA in your market.

Originally, the term "DVR" (digital video recorder) was used for a basic digital video recorder with VCR-like functionality. The term "PVR" (personal video recorder) was used for a "smarter" DVR that allowed the user to set parameters for selecting and recording programs far beyond the generic VCR-like capabilities. Replay TV, Showstopper and TiVo generally were considered PVRs. Early versions of cable recorders and Dish satellite recorders all started as DVRs but have since progressed with features and functions to be more like PVRs.

I know that TiVo used the term PVR to describe their products, including the DirecTV version. Later DirecTV wanted to distance themselves from the TiVo company and branding, so they started calling the same box a "DirecTV DVR with TiVo." Around here those same boxes are also referred to as "DirecTiVo" units.

So, there is not really a clear distinction between DVR and PVR as the terms are used today. It seems like the PVR term is being used less and the DVR term is being used more, regardless of the feature sets provided.

My personal solution to "timeshift HD and analog broadcasts" involves DirecTV service because our analog OTA reception is terrible and our previous cable service was not much better. In late 1999 I switched to DirecTV service starting with one SD (standard definition, analog equivalent) DirecTiVo for timeshifting and one HDTV STB that received all satellite signals/channels (SD, including our local channels, and HD) and digital OTA channels. I was fortunate in that my digital OTA reception works great, even though my analog reception is terrible. I guess that speaks a bit for some of the value of converting from analog to digital OTA.

Later I added a second DirecTiVo (SD), then our first HD DirecTiVo, and later a second. We still use the SD DirecTiVo's for non-HD timeshifting and normally limit the HD DirecTiVo use to HD. My wife and I each have and SD and HD DirecTiVo for our personal timeshifting.

A more direct answer to your first question might be that the satellite and cable companies are all offering their own DVR timeshifting capabilities, so there is less perceived demand for comparable OTA capabilities. Also, the FCC has mandated for sometime next year that all TV "receivers" must support ATSC digital TV reception, and that apparently applies to TVs, DVRs, DVD recorders, VCRs and whatever (I could be wrong on this--someone with more knowledge can step in with corrections). This hybrid TV world we are in complicates everything, and certainly confuses the average TV viewer who just wants to tune in the channel for the TV program they want to watch or record.

Dave,

Thanks for the info. Would someone please update this thread with links to info on the TiVo 3 (as well as all previous HD TiVos)? Also the only TiVo PVR (DirectTV) mentioned in the 1st post has a non-functioning link.

In the past (pre-HD era) I have ignored TiVo and other PVR devices because they required pay subscriptions for dumbed-down simple programming menu selection for average Joe when the basic channel/time VCR programming functionality is all that I need. True, I have on occasion screwed up by unconsciously selecting PM when attempting to record the rare AM show. A TiVo HD-DVR would sound like the solution if it offers a QAM tuner as well as analog cable tuner and and capacity to record from both. Does the TiVo series 2 DT have this? From your description, I'm unclear as to what the 2nd tuner receives other than cable analog. As much as I am against paying for cable/satallite and their high compression HD just to receive OTA, the current situation here (big fight trying to get D-OTA towers approved which has dragged on for years and I see no solution for more years), I currently have cable because I use cable modem and cable TV is only $5 more and analog OTA reception was unnacceptable without a roof antenna (which I now know I could have erected [thanks FCC] even though the HOA told me I couldn't when I initially bought my home 9 years ago). A 3rd D-OTA tuner and record capability would also be nice in the DVR, but right now is not a requirement. Also, is it possible to buy a working TiVo from a store without subscribing to cable or satellite service to activate its functionality? I thought someone here mentioned something about $499 TiVo HD-DVR, which I would run out and buy tomorrow if it had QAM and analog cable tuner and recording capability. Lastly I'm not current on the Echostar/TiVo court fight, but if the injunction to shut down Echostar TiVo units goest through, would that affect non-Echostar users of TiVo units?

I spent a couple grand for my HD-capable TV in 2003 and believe it's long overdue to quit using it simply to watch analog cable and timeshifted VHS. :o

HDTS,

Let me try to clarify here.

I was mistaken about the TiVo Series 3 capabilities in my prior post (I just corrected that info a few minutes ago). It can tune and record analog and digital channels from cable or OTA sources. It uses cable cards to be able to tune in premium digital cable channels (if you subscribe to them) without requiring a separate cable box. So I think it could meet all of your needs without changing service providers.

The price has not been announced yet but strong rumors and TiVo communications with cable companies regarding the need for cable cards suggest that the debut is not far away.

Here is a thread with lots of discussion about the TiVo Series 3: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=312950

Google "TiVo Series 3" for more sources of info.

Any update on recording HD from Samsung SIR-T165 firewire to WinXP? Is it still impossible? anyone made any progress? how about Windows Vista - will it be able record HD from T165 via firewire input?

thanks,

steve - nyc

Will a 2007 thread be created this year? If so, Feel free to add the following items to the 'PC HDTV tuners' section:

· OnAir GT (USB powered HDTV/Analog tuner) - $179 - http://www.autumnwave.com/
· OnAir Creator (USB HDTV/Analog tuner w/ encoder) - $249 - http://www.autumnwave.com/


Feel free to also remove 'usbhdtv.com' from the 'USB source for HDTV Recording' section, as it is replaced with the 2 items above.

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America

I have one of the original USB HDTV OnAir's, that was shipped from SK like a couple years ago. It's been reliable and I continue to use it. I'm glad to see the product has continued to evolve and be supported -- usb powered is a nice feature. It's ideal for a htpc.

Will a 2007 thread be created this year? If so, Feel free to add the following items to the 'PC HDTV tuners' section:

· OnAir GT (USB powered HDTV/Analog tuner) - $179 - http://www.autumnwave.com/
· OnAir Creator (USB HDTV/Analog tuner w/ encoder) - $249 - http://www.autumnwave.com/


Feel free to also remove 'usbhdtv.com' from the 'USB source for HDTV Recording' section, as it is replaced with the 2 items above.

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
Does the encoder mean that the OnAir Creator will be able to receive satellite signals from my receiver/dish?

brooklotzkar,
Unfortunately no. The OnAir HDTV devices are designed to tune Digital TV (Over the air, and unencrypted cable), as well as Analog TV (over the air and cable). The hardware encoder on the Creator simply means that the Analog TV (and S-Video/Composite inputs) are processed on the tuner itself. This reduces the CPU usage on your computer.

The OnAir GT, on the other hand, uses software encoding. This makes it less expensive, as no encoder chip is required. The processing is done by your CPU instead.

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio

AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
http://www.autumnwave.com/

FYI - the EyeTV 500 from El Gato that you listed in the first post has been discontinued. It was replaced by the EyeTV Hybrid which has both digital and analog tuners, connects via USB2 rather than Firewire, and is much less expensive.

I am currently receiving both Dish Network and Canadian Star Choice satellite feeds on their respective HD STB's.

Is there a way to record both HD and SD programs without buying a PVR from each satellite company?

I have read a little about the R5000-HD. Does anyone have experience with it and is it difficult to set up?

I didn't see the CinemaVu products listed--they make the RCA hard disk recorder. Two models: VU-160 and VU-250, with 160 gig and 250 gig disk sizes, MSRP $400 and $600. No apparent way to upgrade the hard disk, which is a shame because 250 gig isn't very much for HD recordings.

Does anyone know of a PCI card with DVI or HDMI in? I know that BlackMagic makes a product called Intensity but that seems to be more for HD editing. Would there be a way to use this with a HTPC? The BlackMagic website calls for a dual-core system and 2GB of RAM but that's for on-the-fly encoding. What if you just recorded the HD video to you comp uncompressed (at 9GB per hour :cool: )?

Basically I'm looking to build a HTPC and keep my Cox STB, because it allows me to get the all the extra packages that I pay for. Any help is appreciated and thanked for in advance :)

9GB per hour is with MPEG2 compression. The HDMI output is uncompressed. The Intensity seems to be useful if you want to avoid the AVCHD codecs and all that jazz, and record uncompressed HD video straight from an HD camcorder.

It's not HDCP capable, so it won't record from the STB. Also, even if it did, you are talking about filesizes in the terabytes.

You may have to wait for some Vista capable cablecard enabled devices to do what you want.

I thought that the cable companies use HDMI specifically because it has copy protection so you can't do exactly what you are trying to do, ie capture the content to an unrestricted device like a PC. You can use a cheap tuner card for OTA content, or perhaps a QAM tuner card for free cable channels, but that's it.

Excuse my ignorance but is my understanding correct in that there is currently no stand-alone HD PVR for terrestrial HD TV? Something like Replay but with support for HD.

I just got a Hitachi 42HDX62A TV that has IEEE1394 (DTVLink) & TVGuide. I use just basic cable ($14/month, no STB), but it has all the local HD content. Reading thru the posts it seems the ideal recording setup for me would be a DVR (for live TV pause/timeshift) daisy-chained to a D-VHS (for permanent storage) all thru the DTVLink.

Does anyone have that setup out there? Does it all work? Which DVR & D-VHS? Can you transfer from DVR to D-VHS? Can you record analog channels this way? Good (low cost) sources for DVR & D-VHS?

Excuse my ignorance but is my understanding correct in that there is currently no stand-alone HD PVR for terrestrial HD TV? Something like Replay but with support for HD.

Doesn't the Tivo Series 3 do that?

And Sony's DHG250 & 500, mentioned at the top of the thread. They're discontinued, but some Frys stores still have 'em.

I Have "cablevision" Analog Cable (no Stb). I Receive My Local Hd Channels Via Qam. I Would Like To Be Able To Record Some Of The Hd Content. Would The Sony Dhg250/500 Work For Me?
Thank You.

The link below is a better place to ask your question, as I don't (yet) own either DHG-HDD500 or 250:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537711

I have a Comcast Motorola DCT-6200. Can I hook an RCA DVR10 to it via firewire and record? Will I be able to use the DCT-6200 for playback, as I do not have a TV firewire port? If so, do I need to do anything to change the input on the DCT-6200 to the firewire port?

I have the following equipment.

1. Resonably good performance PC w/ Windows Vista Ultimate (or I can downgrade it back to MCE 2005)
2. ATI HDTV wonder TV tuner card
3. Comcast HDTV subscription w/ Motorola DCT 6200 STB

What I am trying the do is to build a Media center PC so that I can record the HDTV programs from the cable. I know that I definitely can record OTA HDTV program using the ATI HDTV tuner card but I also want to record the HDTV channels only available via cable.

Right now, my PC only able to scan the OTA channels but not able to scan the channels feed from the cable. I connect the TV tuner straight to the cable outlet. I haven't tried hook up the TV tuner to the cable box's TV output (coaxial output).

I would appreciate if any one can give me any experience if they have ever tried to do the same as myself. Any particular patch or tweaking on the PC to make it able to record cable HDTV (even if it may eventually fail, i want somebody to tell me hey it's impossible, forget about it dude that type of message).

My reason of seeking for this solution is because..
1. I have a spare PC to play around so if the whole setup works, i only pay extra for the TV tuner instead of spending $500+ for a HD recorder or need to pay a monthly subscription
2. The MCE gives an acceptable interface and providing free channel lineup (yes I know it only gives me 8 days of advance programming vs Tivo may give u 2wks or maybe more plus many other nice feature but I can live with that)
3. The recording capacity of a PC based DVR is much bigger, or in other words more scalable, just by putting 2x500GB hdd or maybe even more hdd into the PC, I simply has the highest capacity DVR which Tivo or other branded DVR is not able to offer
4. I can also view any downloaded content or play dvd or even HD-DVD/Blu-ray from just 1 machine and 1 remoteu. The versatility and expandability of a PC can do all in 1 box is so attractive

I would appreciate if any one can give me any experience if they have ever tried to do the same as myself. Any particular patch or tweaking on the PC to make it able to record cable HDTV (even if it may eventually fail, i want somebody to tell me hey it's impossible, forget about it dude that type of message).

I think, but cannot confirm, that QAM reception is disabled in the ATI-supplied software that comes with the card. The hardware itself is capable of demodulating QAM.

According to the MythTV wiki, people have gotten QAM reception to work with the HDTV Wonder under Linux: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Talk:ATI_HDTV_Wonder

I have the HDTV Wonder in my Linux box working with mplayer/Kaffeine/MythTV. But I have satellite, not cable, so I can't test the QAM reception.

If you are referring to unencrypted QAM channels (basically the same ones you can get OTA), then yes, you should be able to sucessfully record those, provided your tuner card supports QAM.

However, the "premium" HD channels, and this includes almost everything except the OTA ones, are encrypted. The only way you will be able to record them from cable is to use a CableCard device for authentication/decryption, and these are currently only available to OEMs (such as Dell, HP, etc.). Perhaps in time they will be available to Joe 6 pack.

A temporary option may be to ask for a cable box that has a functional esata port, and slap in a 500GB drive in an external enclosure. Not the same as the limitless capabilities of a PC, but an improvement over the paltry 160GB the STB's usually ship with.

I timeshift everything and have Comcast and wanted a way of timeshifting HD. I was looking at buying an STB (since my HDTV does not have an HD tuner) as well as Tivo 3, but Tivo 3 costs $800 (but I've seen sales lately for $750 and it's at Costco for $700 now), and I'd have to pay at least $100/year in subscription fees. So I was looking at over $1000 including the STB for the 1st year. The other option was Comcast's HD subscription and their DVR, however that would cost me almost $800 for all the upgrades (digital cable and DVR rental) and their DVR can only record a paltry 15 hours v. Tivo 3's 35 hours. Again talking over $900 per year. Someone suggested the HTPC solution and I've been researching building an HTPC. Don't know much about Windows solutions and there is no forum here, but the Linux solution looks good. Looks like I can build an HD HTPC with MythTV (Linux) for about $900 including tuner card and 500GB disk for over 70 hours of HD recording. The saving comes in the 2nd and later years where I'm saving $800/yr in subscription fees. I'm going for a bit more than the minimum HD HTPC with a dual core processor - supposedly you can build an minimum HD HTPC for as little as $600. The main thing if you want OTA HD (ATSC) as well as cable HD (QAM) is to buy a tuner with both ATSC and QAM. Tuners with both that work with Linux are less than $150. If your PC handles Vista, it should be more than sufficient to run MythTV.

I have the following equipment.

1. Resonably good performance PC w/ Windows Vista Ultimate (or I can downgrade it back to MCE 2005)
2. ATI HDTV wonder TV tuner card
3. Comcast HDTV subscription w/ Motorola DCT 6200 STB

What I am trying the do is to build a Media center PC so that I can record the HDTV programs from the cable. I know that I definitely can record OTA HDTV program using the ATI HDTV tuner card but I also want to record the HDTV channels only available via cable.

Right now, my PC only able to scan the OTA channels but not able to scan the channels feed from the cable. I connect the TV tuner straight to the cable outlet. I haven't tried hook up the TV tuner to the cable box's TV output (coaxial output).

I would appreciate if any one can give me any experience if they have ever tried to do the same as myself. Any particular patch or tweaking on the PC to make it able to record cable HDTV (even if it may eventually fail, i want somebody to tell me hey it's impossible, forget about it dude that type of message).

My reason of seeking for this solution is because..
1. I have a spare PC to play around so if the whole setup works, i only pay extra for the TV tuner instead of spending $500+ for a HD recorder or need to pay a monthly subscription
2. The MCE gives an acceptable interface and providing free channel lineup (yes I know it only gives me 8 days of advance programming vs Tivo may give u 2wks or maybe more plus many other nice feature but I can live with that)
3. The recording capacity of a PC based DVR is much bigger, or in other words more scalable, just by putting 2x500GB hdd or maybe even more hdd into the PC, I simply has the highest capacity DVR which Tivo or other branded DVR is not able to offer
4. I can also view any downloaded content or play dvd or even HD-DVD/Blu-ray from just 1 machine and 1 remoteu. The versatility and expandability of a PC can do all in 1 box is so attractive
You should know that a PC can only interpret UNENCRYPTED Cable channels,
such as local HD channels and maybe a couple more they forgot to encrypt.

MCE wasn't designed to support QAM....so look to some other OPSYS.
Here's is the one (and only???) report of success with QAM on HDTV Wonder:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9819653&highlight=QAM#post9819653
You should click on the HOME THEATER link at the top to pursue this.

You might consider using a Firewire interface from an appropriately equipped STB/DVR (ask your cable company).
For many of us, the HD-DVR Firewire port doesn't work correctly so we have to use a separate STB (e.g. SA3250HD).
You should check your local thread to see if it is enabled and also the fol.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695

If you want to record encrypted cable channels, you'll need a Firewire interface to D-VHS,
or wait for the specially built PC's that will implement cable decryption in VISTA, using a
CableCARD plugged into the fol:
http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105421&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=800664&highlight
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2662
Of course, you can't watch/record digital channels unless you subscribe to them....

No, you can't use OCUR on an old PC due to specific hardware decryption requirements....
So if you bought (or are buying) a new VISTA PC, make sure it is OCUR compatible....
If they are even on the market yet....they may still be "coming soon"....

Has anyone tried to hook any of the firewire 1394 AVHDD's up to a PC? i'm interested in making a chain, i've got the RCA DVR2160, and my PC sees the device but i can't mount the drive (i'm sure i have taken a very simplistic approach to this), i'm interested in creating a 1394 chain using my PC, the DVR2160, and my Mitus-62627, hopefully i'll be able to record to the drive from my PC and do play back to my tv

I have read through this, but cannot seem to figure out if the Tivo Series3 box will record HD OTA if I am not a D*TV subscriber? In fact, I am a D*TV subscriber, but do not subscribe to their HD. Will running my non-HD signal from them through it be enough to make the OTA work?

I have read through this, but cannot seem to figure out if the Tivo Series3 box will record HD OTA if I am not a D*TV subscriber? In fact, I am a D*TV subscriber, but do not subscribe to their HD. Will running my non-HD signal from them through it be enough to make the OTA work?
although i don't have any of the products you're asking about, and there are probably better forums to ask this question, i would assume that it "should" work, i believe that subscribing to D*'s HD simply makes it so your card will instruct your STB to decrypt the the encrypted transport streams for those channels, but if you are using an OTA antenna, the channels are unencrypted to begin with (not sure about the locals that actually come down from the D* bird, but i'm assuming these are unencrypted also) it might take some tinkering to get it to work, but as a betting man i'd say YES

The Tivo Series 3 box works with cable and OTA, it doesn't do satellite.

It downloads listings via Ethernet or phone line. You can use it just to record OTA, no need to hook it to cable (though if you just want OTA then a couple of cheap PC tuners could be a more economical option).

I don't have any PC's near my TV's and am not so interested in constructing an HTPC. I have been frustrated in my searches for a simple plug n' play solution to stick into my now-dormant Althon PC. I thought I had found something with the ATI HDwonder, but subsequent reviews have not been comforting. Any suggestions with real world experience to back it up?

wow cool thread... i may come back to this in the future for use. thanks!

I don't see the Indigita or CinemaVu (retailer of Indigita AVHDD's) external firewire (IEEE1394) HD DVR's.

They are 5C/DTCP compliant, so you can record and playback anything you're authorized to receive, including encrypted QAM, if you're subscribed.

Indigita AVHDD (http://www.intellasys.net/products/index.php?target=indigita/AVHD.txt) = http://www.intellasys.net/products/index.php?target=indigita/AVHD.txt

CinemaVu C-VU160, 250 & 500 HD DVR's (http://www.cinemavu.com/index.html) = http://www.cinemavu.com/index.html

To Moderator:
I have gathered replacements for SOME of the dead links in the first message, as well as additional models of Motorola STBs w/ 1394 outputs and links to those models.
Hope this helps. Doc
P.S. I expect this msg to be deleted after use.
oops: the white-space compressor ate my nice indented formatting.
I'm sure you can figure it out.

under:
Firewire sources for HDTV Recording
change:
· Motorola 6200/6208/6412 (Cable HDTV)
to:
· Motorola DCT6200/6208/6412/6416/3412/3416 (Cable HDTV analog/digital)
...............DCH6200/6416/3200/3416 (Cable HDTV all-digital)

under:
HDTV PVR
replace:
· Motorola DCT-6208 80GB Cable

· Motorola DCT-6412 120GB Cable

· Motorola DCT-3412 120GB Cable

with:

Motorola Settops with IEEE1394 Firewire outputs
Analog (ch 2-99), Digital (100 + up)
NON-CableCard compatible

· DCT-6200 Cable HDTV (non-DVR)
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/downloads/DCT6200-08_UserGuide.pdf

· DCT-6208 80GB Cable HDTV w/ 1-tuner DVR
http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/dct6208/default.asp

· DCT-6412 120GB Cable \ HDTV w/ 2-tuner DVR
· DCT-6416 160GB Cable /
http://broadband.motorola.com/noflash/customer_docs/user_guides/512659-001-a.pdf

Analog (ch 2-99), Digital (100 + up)
Multi-Stream Cable-Card Compatible

· DCH6200 HDTV (non-DVR)
http://broadband.motorola.com/business/digitalvideo/product_dch6200_settop.asp

· DCH6416 HDTV (2-Tuner DVR 160GB)
http://broadband.motorola.com/business/digitalvideo/product_dch6416_settop.asp

ALL-Digital (ch1-999)
NON-CableCard compatible

· DCT-3412 120GB Cable \ HDTV w/ 2-tuner DVR
· DCT-3416 160GB Cable /
http://broadband.motorola.com/business/digitalvideo/product_dct3400_settop.asp

ALL-Digital (ch1-999)
Multi-Stream Cable-Card Compatible

· DCH3200 HDTV (non-DVR)
http://broadband.motorola.com/business/digitalvideo/product_dch3200_settop.asp

· DCH3416 HDTV (2-Tuner DVR 160GB)
http://broadband.motorola.com/business/digitalvideo/product_dch3416_settop.asp

DCH Family Product Matrix
http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/product_documents/DCH%20Host%20Product%20Family.pdf

dead link:
· Dish Network 942 $699 DTV
http://www.dishnetwork.com/download...od_SheetWeb.pdf
replacement:
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/user_guides_and_manuals/receivers/942/

dead link:
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/HDDVR.jsp
likely replacement link:
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=2980017


HDTV DVR - Requires external Firewire source
· RCA DVR2080 $449 (Firewire)
· RCA DVR2160 $549 (Firewire)

dead links:
http://tv.rca.com/en-US/ModelDetail...y&PC=Components
http://tv.rca.com/en-US/ModelDetail...y&PC=Componentsreplacement link:

replacement link for combined user guide:
http://tv.rca.com/NR/rdonlyres/A8F18DA5-9DF3-43BF-A91A-D1141D519B9F/0/DVR2080_2160IB.pdf

Does anyone Know when Standalone Blu-ray and HD-DVD recorders are coming out That can record OTA HD and Cable HD with a cable card. I think I saw some burners for computers, but I haven't heard anything about standalone recorders. I tried searching the internet and this forum but didn't find anything. When they do come out are they going to be added to this thread.

Does anyone Know when Standalone Blu-ray and HD-DVD recorders are coming out That can record OTA HD and Cable HD with a cable card. I think I saw some burners for computers, but I haven't heard anything about standalone recorders. I tried searching the internet and this forum but didn't find anything. When they do come out are they going to be added to this thread.


I am interested in finding something to replace my existing (analog) vcr. Any suggestions on a DVR that merely connects to my OTA antenna, tunes and records ATSC OTA stations, and outputs to the TV-- no computer connection, no STB, no satellite, or cableTV subscription, no phone line/internet connection (a la Tivo)? Just looking for a simple, straight-forward unplug/replug stand alone device; remove the old VCR, install the new ATSC OTA DVR in its place.

Suggestions?

thanks,
Kelly

I am interested in finding something to replace my existing (analog) vcr. Any suggestions on a DVR that merely connects to my OTA antenna, tunes and records ATSC OTA stations, and outputs to the TV-- no computer connection, no STB, no satellite, or cableTV subscription, no phone line/internet connection (a la Tivo)? Just looking for a simple, straight-forward unplug/replug stand alone device; remove the old VCR, install the new ATSC OTA DVR in its place.

Suggestions?

thanks,
Kelly
I have been looking for the same thing for the last year! I have awesome OTA reception and don't care for subscriptions, don't want the hassle factor of an HTPC (ultra-low WAF) etc etc. I would buy three of them on the spot.

Unfortunately, they aren't around - unless you can find one of the Sony DHG hard disk recorders (sadly discontinued but very good).

Rather than wait, I broke down and bought a Tivo HD. It's OK. I see why people like them, but it's OVERKILL for me - I have maybe 3 shows all year I want to record at various times. Unless you are very much into TV (watch 10+ hours each week) then you won't use most of the capabilities.

You will either have to wait for the inevitable box (lots of devices coming out that ALMOST meet the plug and play requirement - but not quite there yet) or go for an interim solution. It depends on your situation. In my case, I have a wife who wanted to record tennis in HD.

Good point, Gordon.

When no one replied to my message for several days, I sensed that my newbie question was either so rudimentary that members of this list were tired of answering it. (BTW, I'd looked already through the messages here to see if, indeed, that question had been answered). OR, that my question touched on a topic that probably involved some form of legal/copyright/patent issue precluding any one from selling such a product.

I knew I could not be only consumer wanting one.

I'll have to wait.
thanks,
Kelly
===================

I have been looking for the same thing for the last year! I have awesome OTA reception and don't care for subscriptions, don't want the hassle factor of an HTPC (ultra-low WAF) etc etc. I would buy three of them on the spot.

Unfortunately, they aren't around - unless you can find one of the Sony DHG hard disk recorders (sadly discontinued but very good).

Rather than wait, I broke down and bought a Tivo HD. It's OK. I see why people like them, but it's OVERKILL for me - I have maybe 3 shows all year I want to record at various times. Unless you are very much into TV (watch 10+ hours each week) then you won't use most of the capabilities.

You will either have to wait for the inevitable box (lots of devices coming out that ALMOST meet the plug and play requirement - but not quite there yet) or go for an interim solution. It depends on your situation. In my case, I have a wife who wanted to record tennis in HD.

Sony unveils Blu-ray recorders to fight HD DVD
Scheduled for release November 8 (in Japan), four recorders will accommodate dual-layer discs, offer up to 16 hours of storage.

By Reuters
CNET News
Published: September 12, 2007, 5:45 AM PDT

Sony said it will launch four models of new Blu-ray high-definition optical disc recorders in November in Japan, as its format battle with the HD DVD camp heats up.

Sony, along with Panasonic maker Matsushita Electric Industrial, promotes the Blu-ray technology, which competes with the HD DVD format, backed by Toshiba and Microsoft.

The new models, capable of storing up to 16 hours of high-definition programs on a dual-layer 50GB Blu-ray disc, will go on sale on November 8.

Sony's previous models, launched last year, were unable to record on a dual-layer disc.

The top-end machine of the four, which comes with a 500GB hard disk drive, is expected to sell for about $1,752, roughly in line with Toshiba's flagship HD DVD recorder.

"With high-definition TVs spreading rapidly and more digital cameras and camcorders are becoming HD-ready, time is ripe for household recorders to move onto a next generation," Sony Executive Deputy President Katsumi Ihara told a news conference.

"We intend to make all our recorders in the domestic market Blu-ray compatible," he said.

Blu-ray recorders can still handle conventional DVD discs.

Outside its home market, Sony is considering offering Blu-ray recorders in Europe, but the launch timing has yet to be decided.

Video rental chain Blockbuster, the largest U.S. provider of home movie entertainment, in June came out in favor of the Blu-ray format.

But Viacom's Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation signed exclusivity deals last month to distribute their next-generation discs on Toshiba's HD DVD format for the next 18 months, a move that evened a contest where Sony's Blu-ray disc appeared to be pulling ahead.

Sony had high hopes that its PlayStation 3 videogame console, which is equipped with a Blu-ray player, would give the Blu-ray camp an edge against the competing HD DVD format.

But the PS3 has lagged behind rival Nintendo's Wii in unit sales since their launches late last year due to the Sony machine's relatively high price and scarcity of strong game titles.

http://news.com.com/Sony+unveils+Blu-ray+recorders+to+fight+HD+DVD/2100-1041_3-6207448.html?tag=fd_nbs_ent&tag=nl.e703

NOTE: There is no release date for the USA.

Does anyone Know when Standalone Blu-ray and HD-DVD recorders are coming out That can record OTA HD and Cable HD with a cable card. I think I saw some burners for computers, but I haven't heard anything about standalone recorders. I tried searching the internet and this forum but didn't find anything. When they do come out are they going to be added to this thread.

Gordon;

Looks like we are getting closer. Although, this is a bit more than I had originally envisioned. :rolleyes:
http://alienware.com/product_detail_pages/hangar18/hangar18_specs.aspx#pdp-nav
Kelly
=====================
I have been looking for the same thing for the last year! I have awesome OTA reception and don't care for subscriptions, don't want the hassle factor of an HTPC (ultra-low WAF) etc etc. I would buy three of them on the spot.

Unfortunately, they aren't around - unless you can find one of the Sony DHG hard disk recorders (sadly discontinued but very good).

Rather than wait, I broke down and bought a Tivo HD. It's OK. I see why people like them, but it's OVERKILL for me - I have maybe 3 shows all year I want to record at various times. Unless you are very much into TV (watch 10+ hours each week) then you won't use most of the capabilities.

You will either have to wait for the inevitable box (lots of devices coming out that ALMOST meet the plug and play requirement - but not quite there yet) or go for an interim solution. It depends on your situation. In my case, I have a wife who wanted to record tennis in HD.

Wow, Kelly. That thing costs $2,000 and can't do 1080p, 802.11n, has only one 1 HD tuner, and just a 250gig hard drive.

Hi Neil;

Yeah, that (the price) is what I meant about it being a bit more than I had intended!

I remember seeing that the HDD was optional up to 2TB. Thinking there was also something about multiple tuners, etc. Regardless, it is a huge chunk of change.

Oh well, guess it will be a while longer.
Kelly

Wow, Kelly. That thing costs $2,000 and can't do 1080p, 802.11n, has only one 1 HD tuner, and just a 250gig hard drive.

Linux
· pcHDTV $189 http://www.pchdtv.com/


Website now lists this as $129