Dave,

Ahh, yes 37 to go. My wife did a quick calc yesterday and said 3 more "full" days at the rate we were moving :( I just put my hands over my ears and went "la la la -- I can't hear you) :D

Building these frames is time consuming project. I built mine over a two week christmass vacation. And it took most of the two weeks. I have 72 panels.

Guys, I need your help on the A/C for my room. I’ve been putting this off for some time and finally need to get it done before it gets to be 150deg in my Texas attic. Currently, the room has (2) 9” supplies (single 9" from the unit split into dual 9" ducts) and (1) 10” return duct. If you take a look at this pic, when I built the vault, it covered up Supply 1 and Return 1. NOTE: Drywall is till not installed so I have full access to the vault.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Current-pic.jpg


My originally plan was to move the return from the ceiling to the front angle of the new vault and move the supply just outside the new vault. However, the more I think about it, I feel I need to get the supply ducts as far away from the return as possible.

So with this said, please let me know if any of these are a good fit for my room. The green squares are the supply and the red one is the return.

Room Specs:
- 14.5 x 19.5
- Ceilings are 10’ at the top of the vault, 8’ at the bottom of the vault -- about 2,500 cu/ft
- A/C unit is located above the Dry Bar area in the attic and is shared with the entire upstairs.
- Flexible insulated "silver" air duct is used
- Unit is 3 Ton, 12 Seer Carrier that cools about 1400sq/ft (which includes the media room). This is NOT a heat pump.
- Thermostat (to control the entire 2nd floor) can be located in or out of the room.
- Putting a separate dedicated A/C unit in the room is NOT an option at this time.

Current Configuration
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Current.jpg


Option #1
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt1.jpg


Option #2
(I thought this might be good since the Return Air Duct would suck out the heat created by the projector fan)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt2.jpg


Option #3
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt3.jpg


Option #4
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt4.jpg


Option #5
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt5.jpg


Option #6
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt6.jpg

What do you guys think?

Building these frames is time consuming project. I built mine over a two week christmass vacation. And it took most of the two weeks. I have 72 panels.
Gosh, I feel lucky to only have 52 total panels (and I thought that was a lot). Glad I have David to help me (thanks again David) so we can get this DONE!

I am not a qualified hvac guy, but I think option 1 would work best. Its also similar to the current layout. It keeps the return as far away from listeners as possible. I would make sure the vents blow towards the front or you might get chilled sitting directly under them.


I also like your idea for option 2, but wonder about the noise level of the return.


Ronnie

I like Option #2. I like the idea of the return taking heat from the projector. Also, the return (because it is typically larger, 10" may be too small) will make less noise than the supply vents. Since the return, not the supply is located above the sitting area, there may be less ambient noise from the HVAC system. Just make sure that the supply ducts are supplying air at the correct angle so that the sitting area receives the air prior to going back to the return, but doesn't freeze people out...

I added an option #5 and #6. Not sure if these are any better but just wanted to throw them into the mix.

The "balanced" approach in Options #2 and #3 really are the best approaches for the room, as you tend to get more uniform heating/cooling in the room.

I also like your idea for option 2, but wonder about the noise level of the return.


Ronnie

Option 2. ...Get a large return to minimize air flow noise.

Definitely option #2. Get the suppl(ies) and return(s) as far away from each other as possible. The return next to the projector is very good planning as well. ifeliciano is also correct about the size of the return minimizing noise. You should never really hear a sucking noise in a return (only the fan), and just add a few 90 degree bends with linacoustic, or use MDF for the duct material ala Ruben.

A question about your panel frames.. I wonder if using 1x3s would be better for the base layer, or would it be more of a pain to find straight lumber (as well as a different thickness)?

Definitely option #2. Get the suppl(ies) and return(s) as far away from each other as possible. The return next to the projector is very good planning as well. ifeliciano is also correct about the size of the return minimizing noise. You should never really hear a sucking noise in a return (only the fan), and just add a few 90 degree bends with linacoustic, or use MDF for the duct material ala Ruben.

A question about your panel frames.. I wonder if using 1x3s would be better for the base layer, or would it be more of a pain to find straight lumber (as well as a different thickness)?
Tim,
1x3 lumber would work but you hit the nail on the head -- it's hard to get straight and non-twisted ones and 1/2 ply is lots cheaper. Plywood may not be pretty and more work to cut into strips, but it is consistently the same thickness. There is some human error in ripping ply so even the cuts we made are not perfectly straight. One tip, if you start with a smaller piece of plywood (say rip a 4'x8' sheet in half longways, now ou have (2) 2'x8' pieces), it may be a little easier to rip the pieces and keep them more straight. The ultimate is to have a 4' Melamine table all the way around your table say so the wood has something level and slick to sit on throughout the cut. I thought about building this but would not have anywhere to put it after I was done. I mean, my 6 car garage is just too full of Ferraris :p

A long answer to a simple questions, but there it is :)

The ultimate is to have a 4' Melamine table all the way around your table say so the wood has something level and slick to sit on throughout the cut. I thought about building this but would not have anywhere to put it after I was done. I mean, my 6 car garage is just too full of Ferraris :p

A long answer to a simple questions, but there it is :)

I know about Ferraris and finally my collection ended in a box up in the attic. :D
Your right about ripping plywood. You need a large infeed/outfeed table to perform a safe cut and keep the plywood sheets from moving to much away from the ripping fence.

I rip my sheets in half (lengthwise) with a Festool Cicular Saw (http://www.festoolusa.com/supplyImages/ts55eq_x415.jpg) and a 106" rail guide. Then i rip the plywood on the table saw, making sure I keep the factory edge against the fence.

My table saw is a cabinet saw with a 44 inch extension table, but I also add a 8 foot temporary outfeed table (sheet of melamine on sawhorsses) and a 3' workbench in front when ripping plywood or long hardwood. I also make sure I use a full kerf (1/8") saw blade instead of the thin kerf blades that tend to flex quite a bit.

I know about Ferraris and finally my collection ended in a box up in the attic. :D
Your right about ripping plywood. You need a large infeed/outfeed table to perform a safe cut and keep the plywood sheets from moving to much away from the ripping fence.

I rip my sheets in half (lengthwise) with a Festool Cicular Saw (http://www.festoolusa.com/supplyImages/ts55eq_x415.jpg) and a 106" rail guide. Then i rip the plywood on the table saw, making sure I keep the factory edge against the fence.

My table saw is a cabinet saw with a 44 inch extension table, but I also add a 8 foot temporary outfeed table (sheet of melamine on sawhorsses) and a 3' workbench in front when ripping plywood or long hardwood. I also make sure I use a full kerf (1/8") saw blade instead of the thin kerf blades that tend to flex quite a bit.
That's a nice circular saw. I love how it notches into the guide.

Yes, saw horses is an easy way to do it but just don't have a spot to store the large sheet of melamine. My garage is SO full of HT stuff (columns, furring strips, scrap wood, veneer).. not to mention bikes, lawn mower, work bench, etc. I need a separate workshop like my Dads. He wanted one and did not get it until we all moved out and had kids. Oh well, the life of retirement.

That's a nice circular saw. I love how it notches into the guide.

Yes, saw horses is an easy way to do it but just don't have a spot to store the large sheet of melamine. My garage is SO full of HT stuff (columns, furring strips, scrap wood, veneer).. not to mention bikes, lawn mower, work bench, etc. I need a separate workshop like my Dads. He wanted one and did not get it until we all moved out and had kids. Oh well, the life of retirement.


Too bad im in Arlington. I could've leased you storage space in my garage. :D

Too bad im in Arlington. I could've leased you storage space in my garage. :D I guess I could bring this over if you have the room :D

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/ferrari.jpghttp://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/buellerclip2.jpg

Click HERE: 1961 Ferrari 250GT California (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/fbdo-ferrari.wav)

I guess I could bring this over if you have the room :D

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/ferrari.jpghttp://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/buellerclip2.jpg

Click HERE: 1961 Ferrari 250GT California (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/fbdo-ferrari.wav)


That's an awsome vehicle. The movie just rocks ?
====================

In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, in an effort to alleviate the effects of the... Anyone? Anyone?... the Great Depression, passed the... Anyone? Anyone? The tariff bill? The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act? Which, anyone? Raised or lowered?... raised tariffs, in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government. Did it work? Anyone? Anyone know the effects? It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression. Today we have a similar debate over this. Anyone know what this is? Class? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone seen this before? The Laffer Curve. Anyone know what this says? It says that at this point on the revenue curve, you will get exactly the same amount of revenue as at this point. This is very controversial. Does anyone know what Vice President Bush called this in 1980? Anyone? Something-d-o-o economics. "Voodoo" economics.

Thanks for the info. I think I remember reading somewhere about the manual sprayer but never thought it would work. That's good to know that it does. Did you dye Maple wood? I also read that if you use water (vs. an oil based mixer) that the grain will raise up a bit. Did that happen to you?

Do you happen to have any pics of your stained wood you could share with us? I would love to see your work :)


Steve,

Careful with water based aniline dyes and blotch prone woods like maple and cherry. If not applied correctly it will blotch and not give you that uniform "modern" look you're looking for. Maple is not as easy to stain as Oak, Ash, Mahogany, etc...

You are correct about the wated based dyes raising the grain. That's why it is recommended to raise the grain prior to applying the dye. One product I recommend is the Transtint Dyes made by Homestead Finishing (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm). These are liquid dye concentrate that can be mixed with water or alcohol. When working with Maple I mostly use the dye stain in a lacquer or shellac base to make a toner.

I seal the wood with a water based sealer and then spray on several light coats of the toner until I get the desired color. Homestead also has a forum where a lot of furniture restorers (spellling?) hang out and give advice on how to go about finishing wood. The product I mentioned can be purchased directly from Homestead or locally at Rockler (http://www.rockler.com/retail/index.cfm?store=28) in Mesquite or Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/stores/store.aspx?id=317) in Addison.

Good luck,

Ivan

=======================
Homestead Finishing Products Forum (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/phpBB2/portal.php)

LOL read the comment earlier about loud noises and kids, I used to be afraid of thunder and fireworks when i was little (5 or 6 maybe). My bro was playing Call Of Duty on his PC during the weekend and I fell asleep in his room watching him play while he cranked it on his HT. He had to grab my leg and shake it to wake me up. Tried screaming my name too.

~Bob

Steve,

Careful with water based aniline dyes and blotch prone woods like maple and cherry. If not applied correctly it will blotch and not give you that uniform "modern" look you're looking for. Maple is not as easy to stain as Oak, Ash, Mahogany, etc...

You are correct about the wated based dyes raising the grain. That's why it is recommended to raise the grain prior to applying the dye. One product I recommend is the Transtint Dyes made by Homestead Finishing (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm). These are liquid dye concentrate that can be mixed with water or alcohol. When working with Maple I mostly use the dye stain in a lacquer or shellac base to make a toner.

I seal the wood with a water based sealer and then spray on several light coats of the toner until I get the desired color. Homestead also has a forum where a lot of furniture restorers (spellling?) hang out and give advice on how to go about finishing wood. The product I mentioned can be purchased directly from Homestead or locally at Rockler (http://www.rockler.com/retail/index.cfm?store=28) in Mesquite or Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/stores/store.aspx?id=317) in Addison.

Good luck,

Ivan

=======================
Homestead Finishing Products Forum (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/phpBB2/portal.php)
Ivan,

Thanks for the feedback on the staining. I've never sprayed stain before so this will be a 1st. I feel like I can do it -- just need to make sure I have some scrap to test with and get the hang of things. Can you recommend a gravity-fed HVLP spray gun that won't break the bank? I have a neighbor that has offered to lend me his but feel I will have lots of projects in the future to use it.

I'm also planning a trip over to Rockler to pick up some things so I will be take a look at the dye. I'm also 5min from the Woodcraft in Addison.

LOL read the comment earlier about loud noises and kids, I used to be afraid of thunder and fireworks when i was little (5 or 6 maybe). My bro was playing Call Of Duty on his PC during the weekend and I fell asleep in his room watching him play while he cranked it on his HT. He had to grab my leg and shake it to wake me up. Tried screaming my name too.

~Bob
Bob,

It's nice to know that the kids will eventually get over the fear. My daughter is sensitive to fireworks too. She loves to look at them but does not like to hear the boom. Hmm, wonder what will happen when I'm watching a movie after they go to bed and a large explosion happens? I have learned to prepare them for stuff like this so if they do hear it, they know it's just Daddy :p

I like #2 and #5. These are my favorite because you would not have the air/heat blowing on you while in the room. I put my return and supply way away from where people are sitting just to make sure no air/heat is blowing on people and to keep the noise as far away from the sitting area as possible.

#2 would be good for drawing the hot air away from the projector as bcoombs states.

Looking good steve!

Ivan,

Thanks for the feedback on the staining. I've never sprayed stain before so this will be a 1st. I feel like I can do it -- just need to make sure I have some scrap to test with and get the hang of things. Can you recommend a gravity-fed HVLP spray gun that won't break the bank? I have a neighbor that has offered to lend me his but feel I will have lots of projects in the future to use it.

I'm also planning a trip over to Rockler to pick up some things so I will be take a look at the dye. I'm also 5min from the Woodcraft in Addison.

I use an Asturo BBS with a 1.9mm needle/nozzle for top coats since I strickly do waterbased for final coats. I think Homestead Finishing has them for $189. Nice little rig. For non critical stuff like sealers and washcoats, shellac mostly for me, I use a $40 HVLP from Harbor Freight, but im thinking about getting a Walcom OM Green HVLP to do the work of the cheapo spray gun.

The two guns highlighted are Italian made so they will make a nice addition to that beautiful Italian item that sits in your garage :) .

Check here of the Asturo and Walcom guns:

http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/usedguns.htm

Here for the cheapo:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43430

If you call homestead and talk to Jeff. He can recommend a gun for you based on your compressor size and your needs. He's a pretty down to earth guy and likes helping out.

Ivan

I like #2 and #5. These are my favorite because you would not have the air/heat blowing on you while in the room. I put my return and supply way away from where people are sitting just to make sure no air/heat is blowing on people and to keep the noise as far away from the sitting area as possible.

#2 would be good for drawing the hot air away from the projector as bcoombs states.

Looking good steve!
Ivan, thanks for the comments.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt2.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt5.jpg

Yes, #2 or #5 are my choices too. #5 would keep the return away from the people a bit just in case it produced some noise. But #2 may be more effective at sucking up the heat produced by the projector (as you said). Install for both is the same since I have to extend/replace the current duct work anyway. Guess I need to think about it a bit and see what works best "visually" in the room.

Unless you have some massive suction or you are real close to the main fan you shouldn't hear much of anything.

Ivan, thanks for the comments.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt2.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt5.jpg

Yes, #2 or #5 are my choices too. #5 would keep the return away from the people a bit just in case it produced some noise. But #2 may be more effective at sucking up the heat produced by the projector (as you said). Install for both is the same since I have to extend/replace the current duct work anyway. Guess I need to think about it a bit and see what works best "visually" in the room.

Option #5 will require some balancing, as one supply duct is closer to the return than the other. Remember, air (being a type of fluid) will seek the path of least resistance. You will get some short circuiting, but it probably wouldn't be bad enough to throw out option 5 altogether. It may be as simple as closing the closer supply duct a little...

You will probably have poor circulation in the upper left room corner, but again, probably not bad enough to rule out.

How much heat does that outside wall generate? Is it a west-facing wall?

Tim,
... The ultimate is to have a 4' Melamine table all the way around your table say so the wood has something level and slick to sit on throughout the cut. I thought about building this but would not have anywhere to put it after I was done. I mean, my 6 car garage is just too full of Ferraris

I went down to the local Habitat for Humanity ReStore and got an old solid core door. It is a big a$$ door mind you :). Then I built a frame out of 2x4s and screwed it to the frame. The frame sits on lockable rubber wheels so its mobile and it has a MDF bottom shelf that is the set inside the legs and bottom braces for handy storage. I was particularly careful to size it so that it sits flush with the top of my TS. Now I have a handy large work surface that doubles as an infeed, outfeed table for cutting large panels.

I think the total cost was around $50.

Steve,

... When working with Maple I mostly use the dye stain in a lacquer or shellac base to make a toner.

I seal the wood with a water based sealer and then spray on several light coats of the toner until I get the desired color...

Ivan,

I am using soft maple to skin a frame (false wall) for my theater. I have never used Maple before but have used Cherry which can be tricky as well. I was thinking of using a washcoat of 1lb cut shellac then transtint in water followed by fuhr 355. Should I simply tone the shellac with transtint? I thought it was water based not alcohol based.

Randy

I went down to the local Habitat for Humanity ReStore and got an old solid core door. It is a big a$$ door mind you :). Then I built a frame out of 2x4s and screwed it to the frame. The frame sits on lockable rubber wheels so its mobile and it has a MDF bottom shelf that is the set inside the legs and bottom braces for handy storage. I was particularly careful to size it so that it sits flush with the top of my TS. Now I have a handy large work surface that doubles as an infeed, outfeed table for cutting large panels.

I think the total cost was around $50.
rlowe,

Very inventive use of recycling :) I plan to get a setup going someday that will help with ripping wood on my TS. Before I do that, I was thinking about a small shed out back to put the lawn mower, wheel barrow, etc to free up some more space in the garage. Once freed up, I can finally put together the bandsaw and drill press I've had sitting on the floor for some time. I'd also like elevate my compressor so it is out of the way too. Ahh, the joys of working in the garage.

On a side note - Now that I'm building the HT, whenever I'm out at the store, I try to pick up a few to add to the collection. It's a slow process (building up my DVD collection) but can't wait to watch them in the HT. I'm sure you guys know what I mean.

Ivan,

I am using soft maple to skin a frame (false wall) for my theater. I have never used Maple before but have used Cherry which can be tricky as well. I was thinking of using a washcoat of 1lb cut shellac then transtint in water followed by fuhr 355. Should I simply tone the shellac with transtint? I thought it was water based not alcohol based.

Randy

Hi Randy,

If you're asking if you should mix the dye in the shellac washcoat ? Then No.
You could, but not for a washcoat. Transtint is both water and alcohol soluble.

When you "washcoat" you are just preventing areas of the wood from absorbing too much dye. So you can get an even coloring of the wood. If you tint your washcoat you run into the possibilty of blotching.

The schedule you propose:

1lb cut shellac washcoat
Transtint diluted in water (Try to "fog" it on) Atomize the hell out of it :D
Fuhr 355

Should work. Make sure you let everything dry for at least 24 hours between coats.


What I do is: (its worked for me) :D


Seal wood with 1.5 to 2 lb cut shellac.
Let it dry for a couple of days
Sand to 220
Mix 1/4oz. or 1/2oz, depending how dark you want the color, of
Transtint into 1qt of 1lb cut of pale dewaxed shellac or lacquer.
I use shellac because it is compatible with just about anything.
With a small needle/nozzle, 1.4 mm or so, spraygun. Spray a very light coat of toner over the surface.
Almost a fog but not to thin that it will feel like powder after it dries
Lightly sand to 320 between coats of toner. Make sure not to snad trhough the finish.
I usually wait 30 to 45 min between coats of toner maybe more depending on the weather.
Once I reach the desired color. I let everything dry for a couple of days.
Lightly sand to 400 and Top coat with either Fuhr 355 or 255


Im just a noob when it come to wood finishing. More advise, by real experts, can be found at http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/phpBB2/index.php
That is the forum of the guy that makes the TransTint and TransFast dyes, Jeff Jewitt. He's a regular contributor to Fine Woodworking Magazine and has several publications dedicated to wood finishing.

...

What I do is: (its worked for me) :D


Seal wood with 1.5 to 2 lb cut shellac.
Let it dry for a couple of days
Sand to 220
Mix 1/4oz. or 1/2oz, depending how dark you want the color, of
Transtint into 1qt of 1lb cut of pale dewaxed shellac or lacquer.
I use shellac because it is compatible with just about anything.
With a small needle/nozzle, 1.4 mm or so, spraygun. Spray a very light coat of toner over the surface.
Almost a fog but not to thin that it will feel like powder after it dries
Lightly sand to 320 between coats of toner. Make sure not to snad trhough the finish.
I usually wait 30 to 45 min between coats of toner maybe more depending on the weather.
Once I reach the desired color. I let everything dry for a couple of days.
Lightly sand to 400 and Top coat with either Fuhr 355 or 255


Im just a noob when it come to wood finishing. More advise, by real experts, can be found at http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/phpBB2/index.php
That is the forum of the guy that makes the TransTint and TransFast dyes, Jeff Jewitt. He's a regular contributor to Fine Woodworking Magazine and has several publications dedicated to wood finishing.

Thanks for the recipe!

I am a noob too. I have done some small finish jobs, but really have not had the proper equipment untill now. I have had a "big box special" HVLP setup for a while, but it just does not atomize the fluid properly. I end up with a lot of orange peel. I just received my new HVLP setup yesterday. I bought a 4 stage turbine and gun set up with a 1.2 mm NN.

I have been reading through the forum at homestead for a couple of weeks now. There is a lot of info there, but it can be confusing. I just need a couple of recepies to try and test them out on scrap. I will give your a shot!

I am terrible about documenting my work but I will make an effort on this since we have others interested.

Thanks for the recipe!

I am a noob too. I have done some small finish jobs, but really have not had the proper equipment untill now. I have had a "big box special" HVLP setup for a while, but it just does not atomize the fluid properly. I end up with a lot of orange peel. I just received my new HVLP setup yesterday. I bought a 4 stage turbine and gun set up with a 1.2 mm NN.

I have been reading through the forum at homestead for a couple of weeks now. There is a lot of info there, but it can be confusing. I just need a couple of recepies to try and test them out on scrap. I will give your a shot!

I am terrible about documenting my work but I will make an effort on this since we have others interested.
Ivan -- yes, thanks for the instructions on the entire process. I've always hand stained with the regular stuff -- so this was very helpful!

Randy -- yes, please share any pics and info about your process. I don't want to screw up things to badly :rolleyes: It's not about the money at this point but about the amount of time I've invested in these columns so far. Which HVLP sprayer did you have before? Looks like your new one is the full deal --what did you end up getting (and where did you get it)? I still need to buy one but want to be sure I don't underbuy or overbuy.

On the A/C options for your room, I would pick #2. You don't want the cold air blowing on top of the people. The return duct near the projector is a good idea. But will only vent warm air when the airhandler is on. great job!

Option #5 will require some balancing, as one supply duct is closer to the return than the other. Remember, air (being a type of fluid) will seek the path of least resistance. You will get some short circuiting, but it probably wouldn't be bad enough to throw out option 5 altogether. It may be as simple as closing the closer supply duct a little...

You will probably have poor circulation in the upper left room corner, but again, probably not bad enough to rule out.

How much heat does that outside wall generate? Is it a west-facing wall?
bcoombs,

You make a very good point on air flow. That makes #2 a lot more attractive. The rear wall is West facing. If you notice, there is a window there that will be insulated with a combo of R13 and R-19 (depending on thickness needed without compression) and covered up with my curved rear diffusor. All insulation in the rear and left walls is faced R-19 I believe -- it's whatever the builder installed. There are 6" studs around the room but given that builders go the cheapest route, it's probably R-13. The rear wall is brick on the outside and the left wall is hardyboard on the outside. It is an energy star house (only 2 years old) so the rear windows is Low-e -- which might help a bit.

On the A/C options for your room, I would pick #2. You don't want the cold air blowing on top of the people. The return duct near the projector is a good idea. But will only vent warm air when the airhandler is on. great job!
1080eyes,

I planned to just force the A/C unit to run 100% of the time to be sure it's always sucking away :p Actually, if I did a hush box (but can't because of my high ceiling and the awkwardness of a huge box hanging from a ceiling pole), I'd go with one of those quiet bathroom exhaust fans that chinadog/Bud's used.

In any event, it's better than nothing and will help "remove" that pocket of heat when the A/C does decide to turn on :)

bcoombs,

You make a very good point on air flow. That makes #2 a lot more attractive. The rear wall is West facing. If you notice, there is a window there that will be insulated with a combo of R13 and R-19 (depending on thickness needed without compression) and covered up with my curved rear diffusor. All insulation in the rear and left walls is faced R-19 I believe -- it's whatever the builder installed. There are 6" studs around the room but given that builders go the cheapest route, it's probably R-13. The rear wall is brick on the outside and the left wall is hardyboard on the outside. It is an energy star house (only 2 years old) so the rear windows is Low-e -- which might help a bit.

With a new, energy star house, you should be fine. My house is coming up on three years old, and I'm in Las Vegas. I don't notice it being too much warmer in the summer afternoons, as I have 6" studs with R-19 (that's what I paid for anyway). If your house was older, I might be worried. How hot does it get in Plano, anyway?

1080eyes,

I planned to just force the A/C unit to run 100% of the time to be sure it's always sucking away :p Actually, if I did a hush box (but can't because of my high ceiling and the awkwardness of a huge box hanging from a ceiling pole), I'd go with one of those quiet bathroom exhaust fans that chinadog/Bud's used.

In any event, it's better than nothing and will help "remove" that pocket of heat when the A/C does decide to turn on :)

Or you could move the thermostat to the space between the projector and the return... Just kidding...

With a new, energy star house, you should be fine. My house is coming up on three years old, and I'm in Las Vegas. I don't notice it being too much warmer in the summer afternoons, as I have 6" studs with R-19 (that's what I paid for anyway). If your house was older, I might be worried. How hot does it get in Plano, anyway?
It does get hot. Starting in late May, early June, temps in the low 90s are pretty normal. As you get later in the summer, temps can get over 100deg. However, given the very short almost non existent winter we had this year, I think this summer will be a scorcher. That's one reason I don't want to be in the attic during those months pulling cables or working on the A/C. Plano/Dallas is not as humid as Houston so it could be worse.

I'll bet it get's pretty hot in Vegas too?

It does get hot. Starting in late May, early June, temps in the low 90s are pretty normal. As you get later in the summer, temps can get over 100deg. However, given the very short almost non existent winter we had this year, I think this summer will be a scorcher. That's one reason I don't want to be in the attic during those months pulling cables or working on the A/C. Plano/Dallas is not as humid as Houston so it could be worse.

I'll bet it get's pretty hot in Vegas too?

From wikipedia:

Climate
Las Vegas' climate is typical of the Mojave Desert, in which it is located, marked with hot summers, mild winters, abundant sunshine year-round, and very little rainfall. Highs in the 90's are common in the months of May, June, and September and temperatures normally exceed 100 °F for several days in the months of July and August, but there is very low humidity. The hottest temperature ever recorded is 117 °F set twice, on July 19, 2005 at McCarran International Airport and July 24, 1942 at present-day Nellis Air Force Base.

I believe that last July was the hottest July (whole month) on record. Thank the Lord for home theater, since we all stay indoors for 3 or 4 months out of the year.

Ivan -- yes, thanks for the instructions on the entire process. I've always hand stained with the regular stuff -- so this was very helpful!

Randy -- yes, please share any pics and info about your process. I don't want to screw up things to badly :rolleyes: It's not about the money at this point but about the amount of time I've invested in these columns so far. Which HVLP sprayer did you have before? Looks like your new one is the full deal --what did you end up getting (and where did you get it)? I still need to buy one but want to be sure I don't underbuy or overbuy.

I had the Campbell Hausfeld HV1000 that was not working out too well. My new rig is an American Turbine AT4000 --> http://www.american-turbine.com/4000S.htm . I actually got it off ebay. They manufacturer is mostly direct and post the units on ebay from time to time. I did some research before the purchase and was leaning toward either a capspray or turbinaire model before running across American Turbine. I followed up with some people who have purchased them in the past and they raved about the machines. These are people who use them for a living so I trust their judgement. I got the rig for under six bills.


Man, I understand the loss of time potential for screwing up the finish. That is what makes it so important. You put all that time into engineering and building, then goof it all up in five minutes. :)

Randy

I use an Asturo BBS with a 1.9mm needle/nozzle for top coats since I strickly do waterbased for final coats. I think Homestead Finishing has them for $189. Nice little rig. For non critical stuff like sealers and washcoats, shellac mostly for me, I use a $40 HVLP from Harbor Freight, but im thinking about getting a Walcom OM Green HVLP to do the work of the cheapo spray gun.

The two guns highlighted are Italian made so they will make a nice addition to that beautiful Italian item that sits in your garage :) .

Check here of the Asturo and Walcom guns:

http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/usedguns.htm

Here for the cheapo:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43430

If you call homestead and talk to Jeff. He can recommend a gun for you based on your compressor size and your needs. He's a pretty down to earth guy and likes helping out.

Ivan
Ivan,

Not sure how I missed your post -- so sorry. These look great and are in my price range. The $600 one that Randy bought is nice too but since I'm just getting started, I'll ease into this :)

I may go with your Italian option (and talk with Jeff as you suggested). Do they come in red ;)

I had the Campbell Hausfeld HV1000 that was not working out too well. My new rig is an American Turbine AT4000 --> http://www.american-turbine.com/4000S.htm . I actually got it off ebay. They manufacturer is mostly direct and post the units on ebay from time to time. I did some research before the purchase and was leaning toward either a capspray or turbinaire model before running across American Turbine. I followed up with some people who have purchased them in the past and they raved about the machines. These are people who use them for a living so I trust their judgement. I got the rig for under six bills.


Man, I understand the loss of time potential for screwing up the finish. That is what makes it so important. You put all that time into engineering and building, then goof it all up in five minutes. :)

Randy
Randy,

Thanks for the update on the sprayers. I took a look at that American Turbine model agin just a few minutes ago and it is awesome. If I had the funds, I'd get one of those in a second.

You got it right about screwing it up in five minutes if your not careful. I plan to go buy some cheap Luan board and some old sheets to test my skills before moving onto the "production" stuff. I'll try to take some pics during the process too so everyone can learn from my mistakes (if David can be in attendance).

Randy,

Thanks for the update on the sprayers. I took a look at that American Turbine model agin just a few minutes ago and it is awesome. If I had the funds, I'd get one of those in a second.

You got it right about screwing it up in five minutes if your not careful. I plan to go buy some cheap Luan board and some old sheets to test my skills before moving onto the "production" stuff. I'll try to take some pics during the process too so everyone can learn from my mistakes (if David can be in attendance).

Steve,

I was looking over your pics and noticed a small pancake type compressor. Is that the only one you have ? Trully I don't think it will supply enough flow (CFM) to run an HVLP properly. You need a compressor with high flow, hence the High Volume Low Pressure name for the gun. That pancake compressor will burn up running all the time. That's why sometimes it better to buy a turbine system like Randy's. If you call Jeff @ Homestead he can recommend a gun for your compressor size, however it may cost more than the guns I pointed out. Hopefully you have a larger compressor. :D

On your test boards, Luan, are you going to veneer it and then try painting ? It would be a wate of time and money if your just shooting the luan. you want to shoot the exact same surface material as your columns so you see what will occur on the actual piece. Also make sure your working with large scraps, that way you can see the effect over a large area.


Ivan

Steve,

I was looking over your pics and noticed a small pancake type compressor. Is that the only one you have ? Trully I don't think it will supply enough flow (CFM) to run an HVLP properly. You need a compressor with high flow, hence the High Volume Low Pressure name for the gun. That pancake compressor will burn up running all the time. That's why sometimes it better to buy a turbine system like Randy's. If you call Jeff @ Homestead he can recommend a gun for your compressor size. Hopefully you have a larger compressor. :D

On your test boards, Luan, are you going to veneer it and then try painting ? It would be a wate of time and money if your just shooting the luan. you want to shoot the exact same surface material as your columns so you see what will occur on the actual piece. Also make sure your working with large scraps, that way you can see the effect over a large area.


Ivan

yes that will be a problem if the compressor is a small pancake compressor. I had the same scenario and had to decide between getting a large 60 gallon 5-7 hp compressor and gun or the turbine. I ended up with the turbine since I really had no need for a large bulky compressor. I use my small pancake for nailers, tires and the occasional air wrench.

You will not get into a decent HVLP turbine unit for less than 5 bills new. You can find used equipment for around 3 bills. The way I see it, I can build cabinets and shelving, built-in's and such for very little cost. Birch ply and poplar hardwood is cheap. Add a professional finish and it make sense to invest the $ in a good spray system. Amortize it over the number of jobs you do with it and it comes out to be a reasonable investment. In my case, I have a new house and many built-ins to do. It just made sense for me. You could rent equip if you only need it for this job.


Randy

Ivan and Randy,

Sorry for the delay on posting a reply to your posts. I've been working on the HT and had soccer games today so life has been a bit busy.

Yes, I only have the small 2Gal pancake compressor that is standard issue with the Porter-Cable brad nailer :( I know of a guy that used his with a HVLP gravity-fed sprayer to do some light painting without any trouble but.... you both bring up a very good point. For as often as I paint with the sprayer (which would not be that often), I'm not sure I want the bulk (and the expense) of a 60gal compressor in my garage like Randy mentioned. Looks like a 20-30 gal compressor ONLY is in the $400 price. Couple that with a $150 sprayer and that makes the turbine sprayer a better deal IMO. Rental is always an option too but I'm not sure I would be doing everything at the same time.

Definitely something I had not considered in the budget.

Do you think I'll have a chance hand-applying the stain and still get even coverage? I would think that if I hand apply, a water base would be better since it does not dry as fast giving time to wipe after the application. I will definitely apply a washcoat to seal the grain first.

Ivan and Randy,

Sorry for the delay on posting a reply to your posts. I've been working on the HT and had soccer games today so life has been a bit busy.

Yes, I only have the small 2Gal pancake compressor that is standard issue with the Porter-Cable brad nailer :( I know of a guy that used his with a HVLP gravity-fed sprayer to do some light painting without any trouble but.... you both bring up a very good point. For as often as I paint with the sprayer (which would not be that often), I'm not sure I want the bulk (and the expense) of a 60gal compressor in my garage like Randy mentioned. Looks like a 20-30 gal compressor ONLY is in the $400 price. Couple that with a $150 sprayer and that makes the turbine sprayer a better deal IMO. Rental is always an option too but I'm not sure I would be doing everything at the same time.

Definitely something I had not considered in the budget.

Do you think I'll have a chance hand-applying the stain and still get even coverage? I would think that if I hand apply, a water base would be better since it does not dry as fast giving time to wipe after the application. I will definitely apply a washcoat to seal the grain first.


Hi Steve,

Don't be disapointed yet. There is still good that can come out of this. I believe there are HVLP guns that perform with low CFM. LVLP can also be an option, although I don't know much about it. Here are a few recommended spray guns for a small pancake compressor.

Walcom STM
Qualspray QS200

Also as mentioned before, if you call Jeff @ Homestead Finishing (www.homesteadfinishing.com) He can help you out selecting a gun that will perform with your equipment.

Ivan

p.s. By the way. Im not affiliated with Homestead Finishing in any way, but as a customer. I do equipment support at a local i.c. chip manufacturing plant.

PM sent.

Ivan,

I'll give Jeff @ Homestead a call on Monday. Also, I responded to your PM :)

Update…

This weekend, I competed (6) more wall panels and also veneered (2) more columns. Not much to show but I’m making progress. Even my wife said she noticed that things are getting done. Most of the stuff I was doing before was more behind the scenes which had little to nothing to show for it. I’m happy to see some progress myself.

Here are the (3) columns I have veneered. The 1st is one of the rear surrounds, the other (2) are side surrounds (fronts for both sides of the room).
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/3-cols.jpg . http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/3-cols-close.jpg

Here are the (5) remaining NUDE columns ready for veneering. The 1st (2) are for the front wall, next (2) are the side surrounds (rear) for both walls and the last one is the other rear surround column. I plan to cut speaker openings after I veneer (but before I stain).
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/5-cols-raw.jpg

I know what you mean about the small behind the scenes stuff. I think there are about 4-5 stages during the build that really show progress. The rest just seems like an endless day :D

Dont worry, We will make it.

Im still curious to see those columns stained. The veneering turned out really well from what I can tell in the pictures.

Ronnie

I know what you mean about the small behind the scenes stuff. I think there are about 4-5 stages during the build that really show progress. The rest just seems like an endless day :D

Dont worry, We will make it.

Im still curious to see those columns stained. The veneering turned out really well from what I can tell in the pictures.

Ronnie
Ronnie,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. The veneer looks great in person (a welcomed improvement from the drab MDF). "I" can't wait until they are stained too! I'm researching sprayers right now and trying to figure out what to get, etc.

Looking good Steve. I think the panels and columns will be worth all the effort in the end. Keep it up! You'll be there before you know it.

Bud

The veneered colums look great ! Can't wait to see them stained and in place.
Steve, from your layouts I wondered if the color you want for your colums is this:

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7764/cab8ml.jpg

Also checkout that awsome piece of electronic gear hanging under the cabinet.
Last Christmas I got a AM/FM Radio / CD player from my mother-in-law. An Audiovox. I swore to my wife on my life I'd never put that P.O.S. up...Boy was I wrong :D

The things I have to do so my in-laws don't feel insulted. :D


p.s. For some reason my son thinks he has to be in every pic I take. :)

Looking good Steve. I think the panels and columns will be worth all the effort in the end. Keep it up! You'll be there before you know it.

Bud
Thanks Bud. Seeing your progress really gives me a kick in the butt to work work work (in addition to my wife saying every other day -- "When are you going to be done?") :D

The veneered colums look great ! Can't wait to see them stained and in place.
Steve, from your layouts I wondered if the color you want for your colums is this:

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7764/cab8ml.jpg

Also checkout that awsome piece of electronic gear hanging under the cabinet.
Last Christmas I got a AM/FM Radio / CD player from my mother-in-law. An Audiovox. I swore to my wife on my life I'd never put that P.O.S. up...Boy was I wrong :D

The things I have to do so my in-laws don't feel insulted. :D


p.s. For some reason my son thinks he has to be in every pic I take. :)
Ivan,

Yes, that is very close to the color we're looking for. We might even use the exact stain and color the painters used on our maple kitchen cabinets. They used a brand stain called Gemini Gem Glo in 712 Wild Cherry (http://www.geminicoatings.com/products/lacquers/gemiglo_aim_stains_product.html)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/kitchen.jpg


Funny on the under counter radio/CD player. Hey, at least you get some tunes when cooking dinner. It may not be audiophile quality but nice for background noise :p

BTW -- when my daughter was 2 or 3, she did the same thing. We had the inside of our house painted and I wanted to take before and after shots. Well, she was in just about every shot in some way. Guess kids are just natural hams :)

Received my GOM Fabric from fabricmate.com today. I ordered 29 yards of Anchorage 2335 (2083 Coffee Bean) and 9 yards of FR701 (408 Black). I knew I would not need it yet but based on posts from others, I was expecting a 4-5 weeks for delivery. And.. I received the fabric in about a week :rolleyes:
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/gomfabric.jpg

Here is the GOM Coffee Bean fabric against the Kitchen cabinet Wild Cherry stain
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/gomcabinet.jpg

That's gonna look sweet Steve.

That's gonna look sweet Steve.
Thanks Bryan. Now I just need to mock-up a large enough sample with some scraps of veneer and try the multi-step process of staining. Should be fun.

Steve - I agree with bpape...that looks awesome!!! Very nice color scheme.

Steve - I agree with bpape...that looks awesome!!! Very nice color scheme.
Thanks jikkjack.

I almost finished veneering (2) more columns last night. I stopped because I was getting tired and noticed I was not being as careful as I wanted. Figured I only have 1-shot to get it right, so off to bed I went. Funny thing was I stopped by my computer to check email and ended up reading some AVS threads until 1AM. It is a addicting hobby.

Update...

Finished (2) more columns tonight. These are the (2) side surrounds that will house the speakers. I still need to veneer the small top piece. I'll get to that tomorrow. The second pic is of all the columns to date. Only have (3) left to do!

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SideSurrounds.JPG .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Col-5Done.JPG

Why do you need to bondo/fill-in the imperfections in the MDF? The veneering covers it, and I imagine there's enough direct contact between the MDF and veneering to allow you to skip this step.
Tim -- you had asked a while back about filling in imperfections with bondo/wood putty. I wanted to share one other small bit of anal-retentiveness I could have skipped. Yldesyde/David and myself spent a lot of time filling in many very small holes created by the brad gun. Even though we were careful, we still missed a few here and there. I just wanted everyone to know that as long as the hole is small, has no raised edges and shallow in depth, you can cover it right up the veneer without issue.

Yeah, until your help (me) gets careless and dings the veneer. You're doing great without me ;-) lolol Great progress. And you can tell your wife you are going as fast as you can, but since you are doing all the hard work, you get control of the remote........FOREVER lol (yeah right).

Keep up the great work!

Yeah, until your help (me) gets careless and dings the veneer. You're doing great without me ;-) lolol Great progress. And you can tell your wife you are going as fast as you can, but since you are doing all the hard work, you get control of the remote........FOREVER lol (yeah right).

Keep up the great work!
Thanks David.

Don't worry, I still could use your help when we have to bring these things up to the Media Room. And on the remote.. I'll just make it so complicated she won't be able to figure it out :p

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/foxtrot.jpg

Steve,


I am wondering how is the staining of the columns going ?



Ivan

Update…

Veneering is finally completed. It took all week doing about (2) columns every night. It’s not hard to do, just time consuming. Here is a pic of completed (8) columns. The pic on the right is my inspiration for the column look.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Veneering Complete.JPG . http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Column Inspiration.JPG

A few notes:
- The missing veneer that you see on the 2nd column will be covered up with black GOM. I plan to have a 10” deep shadow box to set off the screen.
- The 1” gap at the bottom of the (2) left columns (those are the front wall columns) will be covered up with the base molding. MDF is 97” tall and the veneer is only 96”. The rest of the columns are about 6” shorter. The base molding I plan to make by hand out of 1x6" solid maple. Here is my inspiration:
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/base molding.JPG


Next on my “short” list:
- Finish the fabric panels
- Relocate A/C ducts
- Run A/V and speaker cables
- Drywall the new vault and front false wall area
- Staining will need to wait a little bit because once they are stained, I do not want to keep them in the garage -- just too many ways they could easily get damaged out there.

Steve,

I am wondering how is the staining of the columns going ?

Ivan
Ivan,

Looks like I need to get some stuff done in the room before I stain (mainly the messy stuff like the drywall). Once that is done, I plan to move them up to the room and place them on the wall. I really want to get them stained too but would hate to spend all the time making them perfect only to be ruined by one of my daughters running into them with the bike.

Hmmm, isn't "order panel fabric" missing from your short list? :rolleyes:

Looks great Steve :)

Hmmm, isn't "order panel fabric" missing from your short list? :rolleyes:

Looks great Steve :)
David,

Done! Check out post 304 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7343197&&#post7343197) :D

Doh! Oldstimers disease

Hey Steve.
I have been going back and forth with my design when my wife finally talked me into building the front wall in with a cabinet like construction. That would provide more storage and be astetically pleasing. My original intention was to build a frame and skin it with maple frames and fabric inserts to leave it as open as possible.

Now to the point. I posted this earlier and have some feedback about SBIR being an issue if I enclose the speakers in a cabinet/bookshelf type enclosure.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=660672


Your design seems to have the same properties of an enclosure so I was wondering how you were approaching that from a sound quality perspective.

Randy

Your design seems to have the same properties of an enclosure so I was wondering how you were approaching that from a sound quality perspective.

Randy
Randy,

I read your entire thread and looks like you have a good discussion going on over there.

My design has changed a bit since I started. In the beginning, I was planning to build a front entertainment center and put the speaker inside. One thing I made sure was that my front speakers were front ported (Paradigm Studio 20s in my case). I believe the B&Ws 602s are front ported too – so that’s good news.

Secondly, bpape wanted me to build baffles around the speakers. Basically, it’s a hole in the column that is cut to the exact size of the speaker face with weather stripping around it to be sure it’s a tight seal. This makes sure that the area on the sides and behind the speakers do not become “more speaker box” and change the properties of the speaker – basically increasing the size of speaker box (which is a bad thing). So, in a sense (at least based on my limited knowledge), as long as the speaker is front ported (or sealed) and you build a baffle around it, you can get away with putting it inside a sealed cabinet with some insulation inside to help absorb anything that escapes back there. Is it the “best” for audio, no – but it can work.

Now, with that said, I’ve now turned my room 180deg. This allows me to build my front entertainment in front of a 2’ deep false wall area. My columns on each side of the screen are only 10” deep and are 100% open to the 2’ area behind them -- allowing my speakers to breathe. With this design, rear ported speakers are an okay option. However, bpape still requested me to build the baffle around the speaker opening because, even though the back is open, that 10” deep column space can still affect the speakers performance for the same reasons I listed above.

With that said, the best option is to have the speaker x inches from the rear wall and totally exposed on the outside. WAF dictated that this was NOT an option for me (and you too) – which is the reason I’m hiding mine as much as I can. In her defense, it does create a very clean look – which is what were after.

Maybe bpape/Bryan will ring in with some more "professional" comments on this subject ;)

Thanks for the details Steve. I talked with a guy I work with who does sound engineering in for a hobby. He confirmed what you said about porting and concern for increasing the speaker cabinet. I will look at ways to create a baffle for my enclosure. Shoud be simple enough.

Yes the 602s are front ported as well.

Randy

Steve,

Check your email.

Bud

Steve,

I have been thinking as I plan my screen wall. Why did you not go with Maple ply? Seems like it might have been marginally more expensive, but much less labor.

Randy

Steve,

Check your email.

Bud
Recevied it and sent one back.

Steve,

I have been thinking as I plan my screen wall. Why did you not go with Maple ply? Seems like it might have been marginally more expensive, but much less labor.

Randy
Randy,

Actually, price wise it was about a wash. The reason I didn't go ply for my columns was the issue of the corners. I do not have a table saw large enough to cut the perfect 45deg miter where the front face of the column meets the side pieces. The veneering also allowed me the flexibility to make a few mistakes withe the MDF and cover them up before it was applied (aka Bondo). And.. no nails holes to fill before the stain is applied because they are all covered up with the veneer.

On a side note, doing it with the MDF first also allowed me to change my mind and only be out the cost of a sheet of 3/4" MDF ($20) -- which is about 1/3 the cost of the maple ply ($55)... and I did that a few times in the beginning.

If I was not concerned about hiding the sides of the wood, maple ply would have been the direction to go. I still plan to get some to use for my crown molding (I'm doing something custom) as that will save me a bunch of time.

BTW -- if you go the ply route, get the veneer over MDF vs. veneer over ply. The MDF will never warp and is perfectly flat and smooth.

Randy,

Actually, price wise it was about a wash. The reason I didn't go ply for my columns was the issue of the corners. I do not have a table saw large enough to cut the perfect 45deg miter where the front face of the column meets the side pieces. The veneering also allowed me the flexibility to make a few mistakes withe the MDF and cover them up before it was applied (aka Bondo). And.. no nails holes to fill before the stain is applied because they are all covered up with the veneer.

On a side note, doing it with the MDF first also allowed me to change my mind and only be out the cost of a sheet of 3/4" MDF ($20) -- which is about 1/3 the cost of the maple ply ($55)... and I did that a few times in the beginning.

If I was not concerned about hiding the sides of the wood, maple ply would have been the direction to go. I still plan to get some to use for my crown molding (I'm doing something custom) as that will save me a bunch of time.

BTW -- if you go the ply route, get the veneer over MDF vs. veneer over ply. The MDF will never warp and is perfectly flat and smooth.

Makes sense then. My plan is to use more of a cabinet style construction. I will likely edgeband the ply where the door access is to the speaker because I am going to go faceless for a clean look. I also prefer MDF core ply.

BTW I finally put up some pics of my room. There is a link in my sig. I am home with the pink eye kid today so bought some time.

http://randylowe.com/pinkeye.jpg

Lovely huh!

Randy,

WOW -- those blue eyes are unbelievable. My wife and I are Italian -- so genetics had to choose from brown or brown with a hint of green. Luckily, neither of my kids have had pink-eye (yet) -- but I understand your situation :)

Edge banding should be fine as long as you can get it to stick well. I've had a few that I had to re-glue at the edges.

Yeah, I have three girls with blue eyes. Four if you include my wife. I am in trouble when they get a little older :eek: The blue really makes the red stand out too..

I just use a little titebond and a couple of brads. Seems to do the trick on the edges.

Update…

I finished re-locating the A/C duct work. It was not as hard as I expected but did take some time to do. Crawling around in the attic can be a bit challenging when right up next to the edge of the roof line.

Here are the before and after renders.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Current.jpg . http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/AC-Opt2.jpg

Now for the fun part… I received my Natuzzi seating today. The leather on these chairs is baby-butt soft. Bummer part is since the room is not ready, they have to live in the attic. I though about putting a few in the living room but worried they might get messed up. If you notice, the legs on these chairs are a brushed aluminum which ties in well with the metal inlays I plan to do in the columns.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Chair-Front.jpg
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Chair-Side1.jpg
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Chair-Reclined.jpg
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Chair-Side2.jpg
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Chair-InRow.jpg

Wow, those look nice. I, personally, would be afraid to use them for HT, as someone might spill popcorn or soda on those. Then I'd have to kill them...

BTW, where are the drink holders?

Wow, those look nice. I, personally, would be afraid to use them for HT, as someone might spill popcorn or soda on those. Then I'd have to kill them...

BTW, where are the drink holders?
Drink holders? -- We don't need no stink'n drink holders! I'm not going to allow anything in the room but water and white clothing ;)

Actually, we did get the "treated" leather that is supposed to resist spills, etc. We're planning to buy some cool beanbags for the kids so they can sit on the floor :D One other AVSer (EC/Eric Chong) has these chairs and built his own cup-holders. Not sure if I'll do something like that or not. I'll just tell everyone to keep an iron-clad grip on their glass for the entire movie or their dead :p
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album2/Large/Natuzzi__1787.jpg

I just use a little titebond and a couple of brads. Seems to do the trick on the edges.
I used the woodglue too. Works very well.

With my family, I would need drink holders, and a shelf for popcorn, candy, etc. A couch might be nice as well, so my wife can lay down while watching a movie...

With my family, I would need drink holders, and a shelf for popcorn, candy, etc. A couch might be nice as well, so my wife can lay down while watching a movie...
We considered the sofa idea but ultimately decided on this. If we had a larger room, I'd do a design that incorporated both -- seating in the front and a sectional/couch in the back (or vice-versa).

Whoa!!! That seating looks fantastic. You can see how smooth and soft they are just from the pics. Enjoy them.

Whoa!!! That seating looks fantastic. You can see how smooth and soft they are just from the pics. Enjoy them.
Thanks. My daughter had fun sitting in one this morning while they "briefly" had the plastic off.

Nice seats Steve. You will enjoy those guaranteed.

Nice seats Steve. You will enjoy those guaranteed.
Thanks Randy -- I sure hope so :)

BTW, where are the drink holders?

Mine normally sits beside me. She is also good at bringing up a fresh one.

Did I just say that? :eek:

Mine normally sits beside me. She is also good at bringing up a fresh one.

Did I just say that? :eek:
LOL :D

Mine normally sits beside me. She is also good at bringing up a fresh one.

Did I just say that? :eek:

Man, I hope your wife doesn't stumble upon this thread...

Mine normally sits beside me. She is also good at bringing up a fresh one.

Did I just say that?


Man, I hope your wife doesn't stumble upon this thread...

Who said anything about a wife? :D

Nelson

Wow, I'm a little late in posting this, but those chairs look SWEEEET.......

They should really compliment the woodwork you are doing also.

Very nice!


Ronnie

Wow, I'm a little late in posting this, but those chairs look SWEEEET.......

They should really compliment the woodwork you are doing also.

Very nice!


Ronnie
Welcome back Ronnie! Funny that we were both in CA the same week. The weather was outstanding last week!

The chairs are safely tucked away in the attic so the kids don't accidentally use a marker on them :rolleyes:

I'm finishing up the electrical and plan to run my speaker and RG6 cable on Thursday with David's help. We might even build a few new panels with my new improved panel jig. You are welcome to help (I mean drop by and take a look) if you like.

Top notch job Steve, very nice! You are almost there, keep up the excellent work!

Dave

Top notch job Steve, very nice! You are almost there, keep up the excellent work!

Dave
Thanks Dave. I'll keep you and everyone posted on my progress :)

Update...

I've been busy with family stuff the last fews days but wanted to get everyone up to date. On Thursday, David and I pulled some RG6 and 12/2 speaker wire through out the room. It ends up I need about 75' more RG6 and 125' more of the 12/2. I should have both by mid week.

Once this is done, I'm going to attack the drywall and get that competed.

One other interesting twist on things... I've been playing around with the idea of building my own DIY sub. I was considering both a ported SonoTube or a ported box sub.. After research over at HTGuide.com and discussions with bpape and Mark P, I think I'm going to build an Infinite Baffle (IB) sub.

The current plan will incorporate (2 or 4) 15" drivers from SoundSplinter (RL-p 15 (http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp15_premium_series_15_inch_DIY_subwoofer_information.html) ). For anyone that does not know what a IB sub is, it's basically a woofer that is mounted "open" in the rear. It uses the space behind the woofer as it's "large box". In my case, I have a somewhat sealed attic space behind my HT wall that should work out well. One of the biggest benefits of this design is I can get some serious bass in my room.. yes, I'm a bass nut. Also, this will allow me to get frequencies down to about 16Hz :D

The rear area would look something like this but my woofers would be stacked vertically:
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/IB-Pic.jpg

Here is what I am proposing for the sub:

Front View
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/IB Sub - Idea.jpg

Rear Attic Area
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/IB-Idea1-Attic.JPG

Building it myself with "crazy" bass would cost about $1,350.

-- (4) 15" RL-p 15 (http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp15_premium_series_15_inch_DIY_subwoofer_information.html) (shipped): $1050
-- 1200x2 Watt Amp (something like this Behringer EP2500 (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=248-747)): $300

I will probably need to purchase an EQ and a high pass filter as a phase II item to really get this sub perfectly tuned but feel this will definitely get me going. I may baby-step into this and build a (2) woofer model to start and add (2) more if I need more output.

Holy Cow Man!!! I must have missed this woofer idea somewhere back in your thread. Thats going to be pretty sweet. Why not go for 8-10 of those things :p

Just curious, is that sub wall an exterior wall? If not, how do you plan to contain the sound so that it only goes forward? Also, will it be completely sealed or does it have tuned ports on the front?

Ronnie

Holy Cow Man!!! I must have missed this woofer idea somewhere back in your thread. Thats going to be pretty sweet. Why not go for 8-10 of those things :p

Just curious, is that sub wall an exterior wall? If not, how do you plan to contain the sound so that it only goes forward? Also, will it be completely sealed or does it have tuned ports on the front?

Ronnie
I think 8-10 woofers would blow the roof off my house and send my neighbors fleeing for their lives :D I know bpape would love performace like that -- he's a bass NUT too :)

The rear wall will be covered with drywall. The areas where the woofers will penetrate the wall will use ¾” plywood to support the speakers. The woofers front will be “in the room” while the back will be in the attic space (sealed by the drywall and ¾ plywood). Yes, the woofers will “live” ½ way in the room and ½ way in the attic space behind the front false wall of my HT. The attic space is about 20’ wide x 7’ deep and the ceiling is 6’ high at the front to about 1’ high in the rear (it follows the roof-line of the house). This attic space is virtually sealed from the rest of the house. 3 walls are exterior. The front wall has some very small openings (maybe 6” tall) that open into the attic space of the house, but I plan to seal those up a bit. No port is needed in this setup since it is “open-air” behind the speakers.

Is this over the top? Maybe (that's the fun part :D ) – but I guarantee I won’t need any butt-kickers in this room – my seating will shake all on its own! It was either this or build a “Car size” SonoTube like fellow AVSer SteveCallas. I'm not sure the WAF on this would go over so well ;) Check it out here:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/17104/size/big

Here is a quick FAQ about IB speakers
http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/

Here is a gallery of a number of IB setups.
http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/page2IB-Gallery.html

I think 8-10 woofers would blow the roof off my house and send my neighbors fleeing for their lives :D


That would make this a bye-pod... :D


Is this over the top? Maybe (that's the fun part :D ) – but I guarantee I won’t need any butt-kickers in this room – my seating will shake all on its own!


Never mind the seating.. how about the house!

Seriously though... great... but insane...
Keep up the good work. I'd love to see how this unexpected turn of events pans out. If i'm ever in the Texas area, i'll be sure to drop by. Not that i'll have any trouble finding your house...

Never mind the seating.. how about the house!

Seriously though... great... but insane...
Keep up the good work. I'd love to see how this unexpected turn of events pans out. If i'm ever in the Texas area, i'll be sure to drop by. Not that i'll have any trouble finding your house...
Thanks Den. I'm still contemplating doing it. Recent discussions with bpape may put me at (2) woofers below the screen. That's the fun part about "working on paper" -- it doesn't cost anything to change your mind :D

Good to hear from you again.

I think 8-10 woofers would blow the roof off my house and send my neighbors fleeing for their lives :D I know bpape would love performace like that -- he's a bass NUT too :)
Don't forget to factor in the amount it'll run you for reshingling the roof when they all shake off. And of course, the cost of the plant/shrub replacment, damage to the car paint job, cost of cleanup and rental of a dumpster to dispose of the shingles, lawsuits froim the neighbors, lawyers fees, etc.

No wonder you wanted two subs..

Bud

Thanks for the links Steve. Very interesting. I have a lot of attic space above and down the left side of my room. I wouldnt mind doing something like this. I just worry about the sound transferring to the other rooms.

The Manifold design looks pretty cool. Do you think its a worthwhile effort to build something like this? Does it make an extreme difference over a conventional sub? It looks cool, provides a WOW factor, and would seem fun to build, im just wondering if its worth it.

You have me interested now :cool:

Ronnie

Don't forget to factor in the amount it'll run you for reshingling the roof when they all shake off. And of course, the cost of the plant/shrub replacment, damage to the car paint job, cost of cleanup and rental of a dumpster to dispose of the shingles, lawsuits froim the neighbors, lawyers fees, etc.

No wonder you wanted two subs..

Bud
Bud,

You think just like me -- in $$ and cents. But had to LOL on your reply :p

Thanks for the links Steve. Very interesting. I have a lot of attic space above and down the left side of my room. I wouldnt mind doing something like this. I just worry about the sound transferring to the other rooms.

The Manifold design looks pretty cool. Do you think its a worthwhile effort to build something like this? Does it make an extreme difference over a conventional sub? It looks cool, provides a WOW factor, and would seem fun to build, im just wondering if its worth it.

You have me interested now :cool:

Ronnie
Ronnie,

That's exactly how I got involved in it myself. Easy to build and some real power with very little work. You are right about sound transference. It is possible to build a box around the speakers but not sure what size. It would be a lot larger than a standard sub box, though.

Guys.. have another A/C quandary.

My entire 2nd floor and media room (which is also on the 2nd floor) share the same A/C unit. There are (2) return air ducts for this unit (one out in the hallway far away from the media room entrance and one inside the media room). I want to put the A/C thermostat in the media room. But, since I would not use the room all the time, I wanted to shut the door to keep the kids out of the room. With the door shut, having the thermostat in there would completely screw up the air balance/temperature for the entire 2nd floor. So, the best place for the thermostat is in the game room (which is where it is now). I moved it there when I started construction on the media room. This setup has worked out very well and have had very even air temperature on the 2nd floor with it in this location.

Once I start using the media room coupled with the heat from 8 people and a projector, I know having the thermostat in the Media Room will keep that room’s temperature comfortable.

Here is my thought… Have (2) thermostats: (1) in the game room and (1) in the media room but only have (1) of them active/powered at a time. I was thinking about building a relay with a switch (probably installed in the game room) that would toggle which thermostat would work. I’d turn on the one in the media room for movies but keep the game thermostat on the rest of the time.

What do you guys think? Am I over-thinking this too much? Do you have any other ideas that are a more simple/complicated option that will work out better?

NOTE: I did consider a zoning principle by installing dampers in the A/C duct lines. I really would rather not do that because that would require a lot of these dampers, install time, expense and possibly mess too much with the flow/balance of the unit (causing possible blower failure because of undo stress, etc).

Why not just lower the thermostat a few degrees (or whatever it needs) on the existing unit whenever you watch movies?

Simple, cheap, effective.

Ronnie

Or keep the fan on the unit running, which would the air circulating. Maybe a combination of the two.

Bud

Thanks Ronnie and Bud. Both simple and FREE options. Guess I'm kind of a "gadgeteer" so was just thinking about it too much :D

You may want to consider remote thermostat(s). You could have one remote in the HT and another remote in the "normal location". The receiver will control the temperature based on the remote that sent the last command. Another alternative would be to have one remote and carry it to the room where you want to control the temperature. If interested, check out Carrier and Smarthome.

Ken

You may want to consider remote thermostat(s). You could have one remote in the HT and another remote in the "normal location". The receiver will control the temperature based on the remote that sent the last command. Another alternative would be to have one remote and carry it to the room where you want to control the temperature. If interested, check out Carrier and Smarthome.

Ken
Ken,

Yes, that is what I am looking for. Here are the items I found:

Thermostat w/ Remote Sensor Capability: $269.99
http://www.smarthome.com/3053T.HTML
http://cache.smarthome.com/images/3053t.jpg

Power Adapter: $49.99
http://www.smarthome.com/3054p.html
http://cache.smarthome.com/images/3054p.jpg

Remote Sensor: $10.99 (I have one just like this in my office at work - pretty ain't it :rolleyes: )
http://www.smarthome.com/30564.HTML
http://cache.smarthome.com/images/30564.jpg

Total: $331

If I go the X-10 Route, there is another choice:

X10 Thermostat $234.99
http://www.smarthome.com/3045B.html
http://cache.smarthome.com/images/3045.jpg

Remote Sensor: $59.99
http://www.smarthome.com/1625.html
http://cache.smarthome.com/images/shd1625_newbig.jpg

I'll also need an app like Homeseer (or the like) to program evertyhing.

Total: $295

Both of these options may be a bit more than I wanted to spend for something that seems so trivial. However, thanks for pointing me in this direction Ken. I'll keep looking. Ronnie, your FREE idea is looking better and better ;)

You're gone spend 295.00 when you can walk in the other room? I thought I had the knee problems!

Bud

Ronnie, your FREE idea is looking better and better ;)


LOL, I could think of 100 things that $331 could be spent better on :D

Ronnie

Steve,

Things are coming along nicely! I'm way behind reading other peoples threads since I've been spending so much time in my basement. Hard to balance the HT build, work, wife, kid, AVS.... in no particular order.

Those chairs are freaking sweeet. Did you post the approx cost on those or where you got them?

As far as the HVAC, I ran larger ducts (8") into the HT versus the other rooms in the rest of the basement (6"). That should help, but just running the fan without the AC should make a big difference, as said earlier.

Steve,

Things are coming along nicely! I'm way behind reading other peoples threads since I've been spending so much time in my basement. Hard to balance the HT build, work, wife, kid, AVS.... in no particular order.

Those chairs are freaking sweeet. Did you post the approx cost on those or where you got them?

As far as the HVAC, I ran larger ducts (8") into the HT versus the other rooms in the rest of the basement (6"). That should help, but just running the fan without the AC should make a big difference, as said earlier.
Jerrod,

I completely understand about the balance -- don't forget fatigue. I think the only one NOT experiencing that lately is chinadog/Bud -- he's a machine ;)

The chairs are Natuzzi Notorious. The only have (1) "Natuzzi" store in the US and it happens to be here in Dallas. I know they have dealers all over the US. Depending on the grade of leather, they range from about $1000 - $1500/ea. They are a bit expensive but that's what the wife wanted. They actually have a "true" HT seating line with lumbar support, message and motorized reclining. (4) of those would set you back about 15k :eek:

On the A/C, yes, turning the fan on (if needed) will probably do the job. Since there are (2) 8" supply and a dedicated return air duct in there, I may be covered by default.

Bud -- I'm with you 100%

Ronnie -- I'm sure I can put $331 to use somewhere else. I was thinking that would just about buy me (2) 2.5 meter high-end speaker cables (Snake-oil included) ;) Or maybe I'll get my fiber stars with that money. I think I'll have to flip a coin :D

Ronnie -- I'm sure I can put $331 to use somewhere else. I was thinking that would just about buy me (2) 2.5 meter high-end speaker cables (Snake-oil included) ;) Or maybe I'll get my fiber stars with that money. I think I'll have to flip a coin :D


Now your thinking more clearly :D Some times you just have to step away from the crack pipe (aka ht).

When do you plan on staining those columns? The hotel I stayed at in California had a ton of woodwork with all the lines that reminded me of yours. I kept looking around and couldnt help but think about your theater.

Ronnie

Now your thinking more clearly :D Some times you just have to step away from the crack pipe (aka ht).

When do you plan on staining those columns? The hotel I stayed at in California had a ton of woodwork with all the lines that reminded me of yours. I kept looking around and couldnt help but think about your theater.

Ronnie
Drywall 1st so I can get the HT messy then clean. Next will definitely be the columns. I just have in the back of my mind about Rubens AT screen material. I have requested a sample. If I go that direction, I won't need to cut the speaker holes in the front columns.

Decisions.. decisions :eek: :p

On the hotel thing, the hotel I stayed at in Palo Alto, CA (brand new -- it's only be open 4 months) was done about the same way. I took some pics with my camera phone of the design. One thing that caught my eye was the black baseboards against the stained wood. I ran it by my wife and she didn't say "No" :rolleyes:

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/blackbaseboards.jpg

Sure is quiet over here.............................. ;)


Ronnie

Sure is quiet over here.............................. ;)


Ronnie
Ronnie,

My wife keeps pestering me to "get it done" and I'm trying -- but it's interesting how "kids and honey-dos" get in the way :rolleyes:

Make-up soccer games, landscaping and Easter just ate all my time. This week, I have to build a Totem pole base for my daughters Y-Princess tribe. Then we have a Y-Princess campout Fri-Sun -- ahh yes, another HT weekend shot :(

Wait, wait -- I did get one thing done -- I relocated (2) electrical outlets. Some really exciting stuff :D

I promise you should see more in the next few weeks.

BTW -- I think your columns are going to look great. Can't wait to see the final product

Yeah, it's the little things that are mostly unseen, but need to be done. Not too glorious right now, but it will be in the end!

Yeah, it's the little things that are mostly unseen, but need to be done. Not too glorious right now, but it will be in the end!
Thanks Jerrod :) I should get more done soon.

BTW -- your room is looking outstanding. Too bad we all don't live in the same city so we all could bask in the fruits of our labor as a group.

Steve-have you settled on a brand/color of stain for the columns yet?

Steve-have you settled on a brand/color of stain for the columns yet?
Unfortunately, I have not had any time to try out some staining. My family life has been a bit busy but should be slowing down in the next week or so. I plan to try out these two products:

- Transtint Dye (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm)
- Gem Glow (http://www.geminicoatings.com/products/lacquers/gemiglo_aim_stains_product.html) (the builder used this on my kitchen cabinets)

The part I'm still thinking about is buying an 33gal vertical air compressor. They cost about $330 at HD and Sears (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00916732000&subcat=Air+Compressors+%26+Inflators). I know I'd get some use out of it on this project and feel I will use it later on others. It will probably give me the most even coverage on the soft maple.

But, since I have some larger spare sheets of veneer, I may try wiping on some Gem Glow (since I have some in the garage). I'm not sure how well it will turn out but figure it's worth a try. I think ultimately the sprayer will be the way to go to get the professional finish I'm looking for.

However, this will all have to wait because we're off the Disney World next week. No one in the family has been before so it should be exciting for everyone. A co-worker told me about this guys website that has a ton of tips about where to go, what to do and how to avoid long lines, etc. My co-worker used it when they went a few years ago and said it was very helpful. For $22, I figured I can't loose.

Tour Guide Mike (http://www.tourguidemike.com/)

I do plan to do some work this weekend. David and I need to finish pulling cable (it really helps having 2 for this job because I have to pull cables through existing walls). I might start putting up the drywall in the false wall area too. Basically boring stuff .

Update...

The current plan will incorporate (2 or 4) 15" drivers from SoundSplinter (RL-p 15 (http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp15_premium_series_15_inch_DIY_subwoofer_information.html) ). For anyone that does not know what a IB sub is, it's basically a woofer that is mounted "open" in the rear. It uses the space behind the woofer as it's "large box". In my case, I have a somewhat sealed attic space behind my HT wall that should work out well. One of the biggest benefits of this design is I can get some serious bass in my room.. yes, I'm a bass nut. Also, this will allow me to get frequencies down to about 16Hz :D


Hi swithey,

I'm really very interested as I was when I bought the SVS subwoofer. Will the IB walk over my SVS? How much will it cost me to build similar driver as yours? I'm also a bass nut but would like a very tight, clean, and not boomy. I like my current SVS, it's tight, clean and shakes my whole basement. But I'm very open to a new product. ;)

Please let me know. ;)

EDIT: Can it go down below 10 hz?

Hi swithey,

I'm really very interested as I was when I bought the SVS subwoofer. Will the IB walk over my SVS? How much will it cost me to build similar driver as yours? I'm also a bass nut but would like a very tight, clean, and not boomy. I like my current SVS, it's tight, clean and shakes my whole basement. But I'm very open to a new product. ;)

Please let me know. ;)

EDIT: Can it go down below 10 hz?
v1rtu0s1ty,

With IB, the sky's the limit from what I understand. Getting to 10Hz (or below) is possible but I think it may have more to deal with the driver at that point (and having a good EQ). I know some folks have succesfully gotten the RL-p 15 (http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp15_premium_series_15_inch_DIY_subwoofer_information.html) down around 10Hz but I cannot find anything to link you to. My goal is if I build a standard ported model, I want to tune it around 16Hz. If I go IB, then I'll take it as low as it can go without damage to the driver.

As far as impact, IB is not as efficient as a sealer/ported sub. I may be wrong, but a dual driver IB (as far as SPL) would be close to a (1) single driver in ported sub. Now, as far as freq response, the IB will probably kick it's a$$ unless the ported box was really large (like Steve Callas's HUGE Sub (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/17104/size/big)).

As far as tight bass -- from what I've read, it does that too. A lot of audiophile’s use IB with great results. I'm want good tight bass too and won't be happy unless it sounds that way.

I'm still deciding which one I want to build -- IB or ported. IB would be easier and cheaper to build but would put a lot of audio volume in my attic. Even though the attic is somewhat sealed, I feel a lot would travel into my daughters room close-by. My wife and I often watch movies after the kids are in bed and the bass may be stronger outside the room with the IB design. If I built a few "larger" ported subs inside the room, the bass would be more contained. If I go ported, I really like the design pictured below. A few AVSers have expressed interest in this design also. It will need to be big to dig down deep -- which is my concern. I will need to build it in the garage and bring it upstairs when completed. At 24" x 24" x 36"-39" that thing will weigh a ton and be difficult to carry.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/PortedSubIdea1.jpg
Using a Sonotube is the easy solution (lots lighter) but I'm not sure if the wife will go for the look (since I'll have one "exposed" in the rear of the room). I may just build the IB 1st and see how much "noise" is transferred to my daughters room. If it is too strong, I'll build a few boxes and put them inside the room - no big deal.

BTW -- which SVS model did you get?

Thanks for the reply Steve. I went to ICI to check out their stains, unfortunately their color selection was a bit slim. I found a Minwax color that would be perfect, but after all the negative comments I've heard about using Minwax I am very reluctant to use it.

I have pretty much decided that I am going to wipe on the stain. Unfortunately-I don't think there is any way I'm going to get the WAF on the investment in another compressor to go the HVLP approach :(

Have a blast at Disney! My wife and I just took the kids (5 &8) for our first trip in November. It was really cool to experience it through their eyes, I can only describe the experience as being truly magical for them. Anyhow we used one of the Disney books (The Unofficial Guide to Disney World) which was a huge help.

Four seats is enough?? I wanted to do that but then it got nixed and we had to do a little more construction to fit in another tier.

Thanks for the reply Steve. I went to ICI to check out their stains, unfortunately their color selection was a bit slim. I found a Minwax color that would be perfect, but after all the negative comments I've heard about using Minwax I am very reluctant to use it.

I have pretty much decided that I am going to wipe on the stain. Unfortunately-I don't think there is any way I'm going to get the WAF on the investment in another compressor to go the HVLP approach :(

Have a blast at Disney! My wife and I just took the kids (5 &8) for our first trip in November. It was really cool to experience it through their eyes, I can only describe the experience as being truly magical for them. Anyhow we used one of the Disney books (The Unofficial Guide to Disney World) which was a huge help.
Please let me know how the "wipe-on" method works. I'm with you on the wife thing. Everytime I tell her I need to buy another tool, I get asked "Are we done yet?". In my head I always say "Never! I need more power :D". I'm not excited the extra space it will take up in my garage either.

My kids are 4 and 6 -- so it will be fun :) I think the flight to and from will be the hardest part. I'm bring a few portable DVD players so they can watch movies -- hopefully that will do the trick. I'll check out the book too -- thanks for the tip.

Four seats is enough?? I wanted to do that but then it got nixed and we had to do a little more construction to fit in another tier.
I tried for (2) rows of seating but the wife would not go for it -- hence the reason we plan to have the (4) bar stools behind the seating. She did not want a 100% theater look :( I'm fine with it because there is really only one (1) seat that matters and it's MINE :D

Swithey... the Swith-meister ... Swith-a-rama ... hmm, no updates.

Did you veneer yourself in a column, pal? Or are you asleep in your comfy theater seats ala Sandman? :D

Bud

Think this is the answer

However, this will all have to wait because we're off the Disney World next week.

Yes, we're off the Disney World tomorrow for 5 days. Should be fun.

No, I'm still alive and kick'n. David and I finished pulling the remainder of the cables on Sunday. We ran out the 1st time and needed to order some more. I definitely used more cable that I thought I would.

I plan to "hit it" next week when I return and get moving forward. I need to get the dreaded drywall completed (along with the mess) so I can move onto staining the columns. I just want a "clean room" to put them in once they are done. It would be very disappointing if my wife pulled the car in too far and smashed one of those columns :eek:

One other thing that is on my mind is I'm considering building my own speakers like "Mark P" did. For basically the price of the Ascends, I can build some really kick a$$ speakers with some very smooth drivers. The jury is still out on this though.

I have decided to go with (2) ported 15" subs for the room rather than an IB setup. I think having them in the attic will spill too much sound into the rest of the house. That won't be good for late-nite movie viewing -- especially since bass can sound like thunder and my daughters are terrified of thunder.

That's right.

Well, have some fun and enjoy some time with the family. I'm sure you could use the break. I'm off to Myrtle Beach in about a month or so... but I'm hoping I'll be done before that. Then I can really relax!

Bud

Update -- Can you believe it ??? :D

Yldesyde/David and I put all the drywall up yesterday and today. Thanks again David for all your help. This was definitely a 2-man project as I did not have a drywall lift. This was the first time either of us had applied drywall on a bare framed wall. We'd both done our share of patching and minor fixes, but nothing like this. We were probably the slowest crew in the world but we got the job done :)

The first is a vault I needed to build on the right side of the room to "balance" the room acoustically since there was already one on the left side of the room. Why the builder didn't put one here to match the other (3) "vaulted" walls is a mystery to me.

As you can see, the existing drywall inside the vault needed to remove before I could install the "outer" drywall. This was messy but required because it would cause acoustical issues if left "sealed" (according to bpape). This is a pic of the vault before the drywall was removed.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Pre-DrywallVault1.JPG

Here is a pic after I removed the existing drywall. The areas you see drywall had solid studs behind them so I skipped the removal.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Vault-Framing.jpg


During installation. I put (2) layers of R19 insulation (paper backing removed at bpape's request) in the vault. BTW, that's David in the pic -- I made him do all the work ;)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Vault-Insulated.jpg
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Pre-DrywallVault.JPG


Completed (still needs to be mudded and textured). I'm hiring that out.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Post-DrywallVault.JPG


This is the false wall area behind the front screen. It is about 2' deep x 14.5' wide.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Pre-DrywallFront.JPG


Drywall installed. I sealed all the joints with caulk. Since this is "hidden" behind the screen, I plan to do nothing more with it except to paint it black).
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Post-DrywallFront.JPG


Oh -- and I only did a single layer of drywall. This was an existing room and doing just these (2) areas in double drywall would not have made that much of a difference -- so I skipped it. If anyone in Dallas wants 2 1/2 sheets of FREE drywall, please PM me. I have no use for the extra and no place to store it.

Next on the list is to paint the false wall area black, get the vault textured, paint the ceiling (still deciding on the color but looks like we might go with a really dark blue to emulate a night-sky similar to what Chinadog/Bud did) and STAIN THOSE COLUMNS.

Good to see you're still at it! Can't wait to see the columns!

Looks great... gotta love the progress pictures.. Now, a question and a comment.

Did you leave the left and right side framing of the vault like that, or did you continue to the end? If so, what did you screw into? (Typically, you'd run a top plate along the ceiling at an angle, and continue one more stud 16" OC)

Your proscenium looks great! Very similar to what I want to do. You could put some kind of backer right behind the screen area (to block backpressure from vibrating the screen), and seal off the areas for L/C/R speakers, and then mount large woofers on the actual proscenium wall (reinforced though, not on drywall), and use that entire area back there as a sub enclosure for multiple drivers (an infinite baffle subwoofer). You could go very, very low with very little distortion (and probably as loud as you'd ever want, though you don't have to). Just a suggestion, as it'll fit in your scenario and is what I'm planning on doing.

Looks great... gotta love the progress pictures.. Now, a question and a comment.

Did you leave the left and right side framing of the vault like that, or did you continue to the end? If so, what did you screw into? (Typically, you'd run a top plate along the ceiling at an angle, and continue one more stud 16" OC)
Tim, you are a very observant guy. Actually, I did install some angled pieces that attached to the adjacent vaults. The pic I posted above was before I installed them. I had to think about it a bit since there were no studs in the area.. I ended up using a 2x4 ripped at 52.5deg (figure that one out) and attached it with liquid nail. I used a few 3" deck screws screwed into the drywall to hold the board in place until the liquid nail dried. The bond was SOLID -- worked like a charm.

If you look at the right side of this pic, you will see the screws in the drywall attached to the angled 2x4 behind the drywall
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Drywall-VaultSideSupport.JPG


Your proscenium looks great! Very similar to what I want to do. You could put some kind of backer right behind the screen area (to block backpressure from vibrating the screen), and seal off the areas for L/C/R speakers, and then mount large woofers on the actual proscenium wall (reinforced though, not on drywall), and use that entire area back there as a sub enclosure for multiple drivers (an infinite baffle subwoofer). You could go very, very low with very little distortion (and probably as loud as you'd ever want, though you don't have to). Just a suggestion, as it'll fit in your scenario and is what I'm planning on doing.
That is a great idea to create a really large sub (and I LOVE bass!). I think bpape might have issues with that because I do plan to put some 1" (possibly 2") material behind the screen wall to absorb sound. Also with the bass traps in the corners, an "open area between the screen" would allow sound to penetrate the bass traps from the side as well as the front. I could do an IB sub, but would really need to use the attic space behind the false wall. I would need a min of (4) 15" drivers to get some real power (since IB is not as efficient as standard sealed/ported subs). I also need to consider the sound in the attic space on the rear of the woofers. Since it is not totally sealed from the rest of the house, sound would leak throughout my attic space. This might create late night viewing challenges. And that is the reason I may just go with dual 15" subs -- one in the front behind the false wall area and one in the back left corner.

I guarantee I'll change my mind a few more times before I make my final decision -- so keep those idea coming!! That's the beauty of working on paper and this forum :D

Man, I can't believe I missed your post #346 about your thinking of an IB sub! I've been away from your thread way too long.. Funny that I saw your framed in proscenium and thought of IB since that's the way I'm going to go. Then reading your post #346, I thought of the exact same scenario (same amp even), except I was looking at using four Avalanche 18s.

If you did do that, though, I wouldn't put the four drivers directly behind the screen (even an AT screen), since that's a LOT of air movement! It'd ripple the screen like crazy. IB sub guys usually say they can physically feel the air movement.

Once I saw your pics of behind that wall into the attic space, I thought, "he's golden!" Just put in plenty of insulation in the floor and roof trusses and seal it off as well as you'd seal the floor, and you'll be fine. You could even do a sort of floating floor in the attic/proscenium space to minimize noise leakage. You've got too good of an opportunity for IB to pass this one up, Steve! :)

My future plan is to use my existing 12" SVS box sub in the rear of the room as well, to balance out the bass a bit, and allow me to be more flexible in the volume of bass. So if your daughter is sleeping, you could turn it down, or just use the box sub, etc, but not give up the relatively cheap bass.

Oh, and as for the sealed area of the proscenium space you've already drywalled in, I mentioned that a few months ago in the speakers/subs forum where I said that I didn't think there'd be enough space, and they said that something like that would have plenty of space. Which reminded me, that I've seen IB manifold designs where the rear of the manifold is inside a closed off average-sized bedroom closet, so your prosecenium space should be plenty.

Remember, it's not necessarily all about SPLs with IB, but low distortion. Those four 15s can drive <18Hz "easily" (supposedly...this info is all based on my research thus far), whereas a box sub will most likely have to work pretty hard to get 22Hz.

Anyway, just some more food for thought. I love how it's coming together for you so far.. keep up the great work!

Yeah. Even if we could sacrifice the front wall control, I don't think that space would be large enough for 4 drivers in an IB. We did seriously discuss putting the 4 drivers in the wall and fire back into the attic but Steve decided that would be too much into the rest of the house.

If he builds the 2 subs he's considering, he'll have plenty of bass. I teased him and showed him the new 25" driver from Hemp Acoustics. I think he's still wearing a bib ;)

I would highly recommend Tour Guide Mike. My wife has used this site for the 3 years of planning for our trip to Disney World (Florida, whatever the name). Lots of great info...








Unfortunately, I have not had any time to try out some staining. My family life has been a bit busy but should be slowing down in the next week or so. I plan to try out these two products:

- Transtint Dye (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm)
- Gem Glow (http://www.geminicoatings.com/products/lacquers/gemiglo_aim_stains_product.html) (the builder used this on my kitchen cabinets)

The part I'm still thinking about is buying an 33gal vertical air compressor. They cost about $330 at HD and Sears (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00916732000&subcat=Air+Compressors+%26+Inflators). I know I'd get some use out of it on this project and feel I will use it later on others. It will probably give me the most even coverage on the soft maple.

But, since I have some larger spare sheets of veneer, I may try wiping on some Gem Glow (since I have some in the garage). I'm not sure how well it will turn out but figure it's worth a try. I think ultimately the sprayer will be the way to go to get the professional finish I'm looking for.

However, this will all have to wait because we're off the Disney World next week. No one in the family has been before so it should be exciting for everyone. A co-worker told me about this guys website that has a ton of tips about where to go, what to do and how to avoid long lines, etc. My co-worker used it when they went a few years ago and said it was very helpful. For $22, I figured I can't loose.

Tour Guide Mike (http://www.tourguidemike.com/)

I do plan to do some work this weekend. David and I need to finish pulling cable (it really helps having 2 for this job because I have to pull cables through existing walls). I might start putting up the drywall in the false wall area too. Basically boring stuff .

Yeah. Even if we could sacrifice the front wall control, I don't think that space would be large enough for 4 drivers in an IB. We did seriously discuss putting the 4 drivers in the wall and fire back into the attic but Steve decided that would be too much into the rest of the house.

If he builds the 2 subs he's considering, he'll have plenty of bass. I teased him and showed him the new 25" driver from Hemp Acoustics. I think he's still wearing a bib ;)
Not to digress too much into this topic, but since Steve is considering IB, I'll continue the discussion..

Why do you think the proscenium space isn't large enough? Steve has already linked to one of the better resouces for IB sub info: "The Cult of the Infinitely Baffled" (http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/). The 3rd FAQ on their site recommends that 4 times the combined Vas of the drivers is a minimum, and 10 times is ideal.

The Vas of the RL-P15s (I'll assume the 4 Ohm version) that Steve has mentioned that he's interested in is 148L. If you take 148L x 4 drivers x 10 times Vas and convert to standard measurement, you get a bit less than 210 cubic ft. Steve mentioned in Post #348 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7461273&&#post7461273) that the width of his attic area is 20'. It looks like the actual proscenium wall width is 15', though (based on counting roof trusses and assuming they are 24" OC).

So 210 ft^3 / 15 ft wide / 8 ft tall = 21" wide, which seems about accurate for his space behind the main wall. If it's 21" wide, that means that (according to the Cult page), he has the ideal amount of space back there. If it's a bit deeper, all the better, otherwise it'll be slightly less than ideal assuming he frames and closes off around the screen and L/C/R speakers. Even so, the worst he'd end up with is twice the "minimum recommended" (8 x Vas).

Remember, all of the above math assumes that he doesn't use the attic, which, as far as I'm understanding, is the primary concern.

Hey Steve....nice progress, and thanks for the link to the DTS sampler. I finshed the download and will check it out in the theater tonight.

Once I saw your pics of behind that wall into the attic space, I thought, "he's golden!" Just put in plenty of insulation in the floor and roof trusses and seal it off as well as you'd seal the floor, and you'll be fine. You could even do a sort of floating floor in the attic/proscenium space to minimize noise leakage. You've got too good of an opportunity for IB to pass this one up, Steve! :)
Tim,

You are right about the area being perfect for an IB sub. Unfortunately, the attic space will be about 50% full of, well, attic stuff. Since the media room is over the garage, this attic and the other one above the living room (both walk-in floored attic spaces) are all I have for storage. In fact, the attic above the living room (which is 2x larger) is storing my HT seating right now and some of the stuff from the HT attic space (so it's REALLY full). Also, the ceiling continues down to the floor at the rear because the roofline. If we assuming 50% of the attic space is full of boxes, that brings the number to about 260cu/ft.(12x VAS).

Now, if we consider the proscenium space, realistically, there is a bit less than you calculated. Because of the 2'x2' bass traps in each corner and the angled ceiling, the actual sizes is about 152cu/ft (7x VAS) – minus some for the LCRs. However, I don’t think it would work unless I physically sealed the area between the left and right speakers and created another false wall area inches behind the screen. From what I understand, there needs to be a physical separation between the front and rear of the bass driver. The screen material is invisible to bass so it’s like it is a wide open window. Please correct me if I’m wrong on this.

One other place I have not mentioned is the attic space ABOVE the media room. It’s totally open up there (except for A/C duct work, wiring and insulation). It probably comes to about 470cu/ft. This space would be ideal but it is open to the entire house attic (which was not included in my cu/ft calculation). Bpape mentioned building a huge box up there to contain the woofers but I’m not sure I want to do that.

Now to get back on topic --- Ok, just for fun sake, say I could do IB back behind the false wall. Based on what you said, having the drivers directly behind the screen would put out too much air pressure and ripple the screen (just as you mentioned). If I put them below the screen area, some of the sub power would be blocked by my center channel. I cannot put them above since the wall is only 6'5" tall in the back. It has a sloped ceiling which follows the roofline of the house. So-- lower is really the only way to go. Bpape did not think the lower area was ideal for this setup (maybe Bryan will ring in on this). I'd probably still get some strong performance but maybe not ideal. And, yes, I am considering Rubens AT screen so that would move the center channel behind the screen.

There is a “SteveCallas” option I was considering (which I think you were alluding to but in more of an IB setup) that might work. Build a big box 7-8’ wide x 4’ tall x 2’ deep (like a hige coffin) and load it with (2) 15” drivers tuned with a huge port to about 15hz. The drivers would shoot out below the screen on either side of the center channel. Talk about a “breeze” for the kids when sitting on the floor during the WOTW emergence scene ;) The disadvantage to this design is I have no flexibility to move the sub around to get the perfect placement. It would just need to work where it is. Of course, buying an EQ would help smooth things out a bit.

Just to add more to your food for thought. Keep your ideas coming Tim.

BTW Bryan -- I am still drooling about the 25" Hemp you showed me the other day.

BTW2 -- I'm traveling this week and had to do a quick reponse -- so excuse any errors I may have made in my comments and feel free to correct me :)

Hmm, thanks for the additional info. Based on that, here are my additional thoughts...

A manifold IB sub in the attic isn't much of a possibility based on your requirements of minimal transmission outside the HT.

You're correct that there needs to be complete separation between the front and rear waves of the driver. My guess is that a standard screen at best won't provide enough of a barrier, and at worst will ripple like crazy. You just need to provide a more solid barrier behind it.

As far as where to mount the drivers, I'd go with them above and/or below the screen (probably each corner, but right before cutting the holes for mounting, place your box sub in the sweet listening spot and take measurements across the low end of the spectrum and check for the flattest response. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but... Look for a mix of responses where there may be a dip at one frequency range in one proposed driver location, and a peak for the same range in another. Similar to the method for placing two subs where you look for the best and worst response from a given central location, and place the subs there.

Since I'm suggesting putting them above and below the screen, of course I will also suggest using an AT screen (Ruben's of course), and placing the center behind the screen. Of course, I'd also opt for a 2.35:1 CH screen and put the L/R behind also.. But this would involve making enclosures around the L/C/R and ensuring none are rear-ported. I'd be interested to hear others' comments about possible issues with this. I think I've read before that you could make the enclosure slightly larger than the speakers, and put absorptive material behind them.

What that adds up to is probably making a stud "wall" with something like 2x2s, and framing behind the screen, while also framing around the speakers, of course. Then mount perhaps drywall or MDF to it to create the barrier.

You should still end up with 6xVas or so, and if you want a bit more, could always cut a decent sized hole in the rear wall and extend it into space that may not be used in the attic space (but soundproof it somewhat as well).

Thanks for brainstorming with me about this.. It's essentially the plan that I'm looking to implement in a year or so, and would appreciate/enjoy discussing this and poking holes in the theories. Assistance from an audio guru such as Bryan is especially helpful. (hint, hint, Bryan.. ;))

By the way, the Cult guys did mention that even if you have 4xVas, that it's not like the sound won't be that great.. it's still amazing, apparently, and still very much worth the effort. I've also heard that independently in the Speakers/Subs forum from a few people as well. It's all about low distortion...

Tim,

2.35:1 CH screen would be a nice touch. I’ve always loved the look – just looks more theater like. I would need to remove both front columns completely to accommodate the extra width. An 8’ wide 2.35:1 makes standard 1:78:1 material too small. I’m not sure if the wife will go for it, though.

Here is a pic of a 110” 1.78:1 screen w/ the columns (current plan)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Front-178.1.jpg

Here is a pic of a 128” 2.35:1 screen minus the columns. Just a huge floating screen :)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Front-235.1.jpg


I am thinking about building my own speakers so front ported would not be a problem. If I decided to do IB up front, it would work well (assuming 2,3 or 4 drivers below the screen works “acoustically” in my room). Putting them above the screen would not be an option because of the limited space created by the angled vault. The back of the driver would be about 6” from the angled vault which IMO may be too close

To create the IB design, I could put the front of the IB wall about 6” behind the screen. That would give me between 109 and 130 cu/ft (depending if I used the small triangle “vault” area at the top as a large bass trap or for IB). VAS is getting mighty low with that config – about 5x to 6x… which may still work but not ideal. I really do not want to take any more from the attic space as I’ve already carved 2’ away with the existing false wall area. One thought that just popped in my head, if I went with an AT screen, I would need to build a cubby for the center channel. I’m not sure this would be ideal for the sound of the front speaker even if it was front ported. Maybe Bryan can comment on that too. Also, if you think about the IB idea described above, it sounds more like a large multi-driver sealed sub rather than a IB setup because of its “smaller” size (as far as IB goes that is) ???

However, if I built a more efficient (but possibly with higher distortion) ported sub, I know I could still get the low freq response and it would be huge as far as ported subs goes. I figure max measurements to be roughly 10.5’ W x 6.5’ T x 2’ D sub. Realistically because of MDF dimensions, it would be something no wider than 8’ and no higher/deeper than 4’. If my wife knew I was thinking about this, I think she would have me committed LOL! It might look something like the Axiom EP 600 but on its side (45½ x 15 x 17):
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/AxiomEP600.jpg

Good to see you're still at it! Can't wait to see the columns!
Jerrod,

Thanks. Should get to those columns done sooner than later. Painter/Drywall mudder is coming tonight to give me a quote.

BTW -- nice work on your drywall. I enjoy woodworking MUCH more than hanging drywall. David and I did get better the more we did but are very happy it is over. I just can't imagine doing a entire room (let alone an entire basement) like you and Bud did. So all I can say is "We're not worthy!" :D

Hey Steve....nice progress, and thanks for the link to the DTS sampler. I finshed the download and will check it out in the theater tonight.
Jon,

Thanks and glad you got to download the demo DVDs. I can't wait until I have my room completed so I can watch them in the proper environment!

Hi again...

I had PM "conversations" with a local Dallas guy (actually I think you live in McKinney) and lost your email address. If you could please PM me again with your contact info, I can forward on the info you were looking for.

Steve,

I was thinking more along the lines of your current design (top picture), but move the columns further apart and widen the screen.

Regarding the 5x/6x Vas, the reason why I'm leaning toward it not being an issue is a comment in the Cult FAQ:
I want to add a bit of an addendum to the answer to question #3. For those that can't do a 10 times Vas IB, but can do a 4 times Vas, go ahead and DO IT. Anytime you can get even a 4 times Vas space, you'll have a sub with better sound quality than a standard box sub. Chose low Vas drivers if you take this approach.
Granted, it seems to compare IB with a standard (good) box sub, not a monster DIY ported sub you're considering.

I need to do some more research on the ported DIY subs.. The IB was appealing to me due to its simplicity and great performance.

I was thinking more along the lines of your current design (top picture), but move the columns further apart and widen the screen.

Completely agree on that. I love the 2.35:1 screen, but those columns are SWEET! Only problem I see is you will be locked in forever once you go 110" bordered by the columns. I would go for the ultimate now (2.35 w/columns) as you can always mask it down when necessary.

Love the demos, Steve. Thanks again for hosting!

Scott

Tim and Scott,

Because I have the 2x2 bass traps in the front corners, I need to leave that space in front of them as open as possible. If I moved the columns over, it would really cover them up and make them less effective. Bpape and I have had discussions on this a few times. I'm already covering up about 6" of the trap with the current column location. Bryan was not excited but said we should be okay since the sides will be open to absorb bass coming in through the screen.

Do I want a larger screen -- ABSOLUTELY! Would I like to do 2.35:1 -- YES YES YES. But I think the only way I can safely do it (since I do not have room in the rear of the room for the bass traps) would be to eliminate the columns. And, I do like the look of them and would prefer to keep them too. I just may be stuck with an 8' wide screen. My seating position is only 11.5 feet away (1.4x screen width on a 110" 1:78.1 screen), so I would not be able to go much larger anyway because SDE may be too noticeable.

If I knew what I know now, I would have made the HT room larger. Oh well, next house I'll get it perfect :rolleyes:

Hey Steve...no worries. That will still be a huge screen. I was concerned my 8.5' wide screen would not be wide enough either (bigger is better you know :D ) , but that screen is much larger once you shoot an image on it. I even moved my front row back a little and it is at about 1.35X screen width back now. You won't be disappointed and you can watch HD on it now. Sports look awesome in HD on a 118" screen.

Ah yes, I forgot that factor in the column location. Not a problem... I see where your two options are coming from now. Tough decision.. :)

Hey Steve...no worries. That will still be a huge screen. I was concerned my 8.5' wide screen would not be wide enough either (bigger is better you know :D ) , but that screen is much larger once you shoot an image on it. I even moved my front row back a little and it is at about 1.35X screen width back now. You won't be disappointed and you can watch HD on it now. Sports look awesome in HD on a 118" screen.
Thanks for letting me know about that. That's good news :)

I still may consider doing the 2.35:1 screen. See my next post -- working on the post right now.

How about this one? I would go with 2' 6" wide bass traps and move the columns to the outside edges of the front wall. The speakers would be behind a AT screen. I give up a wider column and the metal-inlay "X" design. Not sure if the wife will go for this either (or Bryan, LOL!)

NOTE: Tim, I used "matched" Studio 100s in the pic just for you :p

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Front-235.1v2.jpg

Actually, I'm kind of liking that option. As long as the side of the broadband absorbers are still open and in play, it would not be that big a compromise. We'd lose some of the wave travelling along the long wall but overall, you'd still have good broadband control. I can add in some additional FSK faced around the bottom of the room to make up a little bit. Let me take a look and get back to you.

Bryan

Steve,

LOVE the last front view pic!!!!!!!!!!!! If the "wearer of many hats" OK's it, I give that my vote such as it is.

Scott

Go 2.35! I finally decided that I am.... can't wait!

I had to go get my bib again, Steve... That's what I'm talking about! And if Bryan likes it, that's a huge benefit (or relief, depending how you look at it :P).

It gives some scale to that theater, too... My 100s seem relatively large in my living room.

Glad you guys like it. Now I need to run it by the boss this weekend. Hopefully she'll go for it.

Bryan -- glad you think it will work. I was worried we might have issues.


On another note --

Now I have projector issues. With the now "possible" larger screen, it will require me to push the projector back to the rear of the room. Which is a good thing. I just need to figure out how I will build the box and work around the rear vault and high ceilings. It needs to look good or WAF will fail miserably.

I do know that an Anamorphic lens is not in the budget right now, so the Zoom-In/Out will be my temporary solution. With that said, I have to be careful which projector I pick so I can zoom-in enough for 1.78:1 content to fit on the screen (and to be used later with the lens).

These are the projectors I'm looking at (all at or under 3k street):

- Infocus IN76 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/InFocus_Home-Play_Big_IN76.htm) (DLP)
- Optima HD72 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD72.htm) (DLP)
- BenQ PE7700 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-PE7700.htm) (DLP)
- Panasonic PT-AE900U (http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic_Home-PT-AE900U.htm) (LCD)
- Epson PowerLite Cinema 550 Projector (LCD) (http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Cinema_550.htm) (LCD)

All of them each have positive and negative points. I was originally hell-bent on the BenQ but it "had" bulb issues. miltimj/Tim knows about them personally. I actually demoed one personally in my home and it was great. Talk about a quiet projector. I have a friend that just bought the Panasonic and a 110" Carada screen so I'll be able to see that one in person too. I've seen the Epson EP800 (the 550s big brother). I was impressed with the quality of the pic and SDE disappeared at about 1x screen width (which IMO is unbelievable for a LCD projector). I've never seen (or done much research) on the Optima HD72 but know the big brother HD79 is very nice.

I've been putting this off for some time now and guess I need to start thinking about it again.

Regarding the projector... Yes, as you know, I love my PE7700. I haven't had a bulb issue (cross my fingers) since the firmware upgrade that supposedly fixed the problem (4 months now). Regardless, it doesn't have enough zoom to do a zoom in/out method of a CIH screen. The AE900 is probably the best bet for something like that.

Gotta get that lens someday though, so keep that in the plan.. :) You'll also want some very, very good masking if you use that method, since a lot pixels will be trying to wash out above and below the screen. (I still think it's better than getting a 1.78:1, if you have the front wall space to do it).

Best bet for WAF is a hush box like Bud built. One with enough room to slide it front and back in it, so it can be toward the front initially, and slid back once a lens is added.

Good News!! The wife approved the columns on the sides and the 2.35:1 screen setup. Yea!!

Now I need to figure out about the projector location, etc. Tim, you are right about the Pana 900U -- it definitely has the most flexible lens zoom. I still need to do some drawings to see what options I have in my room.

Here is a side view of the room and the (2) locations I have come up with for the projector. Position 1 is at 12.5' and Position 2 is at 16'. If I plan to (or have future plans) for a anamorphic lens, the further back the better (1.7x or greater 1.78:1 screen widths is recommended). But if the projector is back that far, I will only be able to get a 1.78:1 screen at the proper height with the Pana AE-900U projector. All the others cannot zoom in enough to fit the height of the image on the screen. So, the 900U may be the only way to go with my setup. One good part about that decision is that projector's price is so attractive, it may allow me to get a lens like the Panamorph U80 (https://www.panamorph.com/Products.html) and still stay in budget.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Side View V2.jpg

Regarding the projector, it might be worth checking out the new Samsung H710. I've been keeping up with the long thread in the projector forum and it is getting rave, rave reviews. I think it's going for around $3,500 street right now. From what people are saying, it's better than any projector in it's range, and many others twice the price. Right now it's alone at the top of my wish list.

That being said, the 900 seems like a good unit and you could get the U80 or some other lens and keep it all under 3 grand....

Regarding the projector, it might be worth checking out the new Samsung H710. I've been keeping up with the long thread in the projector forum and it is getting rave, rave reviews. I think it's going for around $3,500 street right now. From what people are saying, it's better than any projector in it's range, and many others twice the price. Right now it's alone at the top of my wish list.

That being said, the 900 seems like a good unit and you could get the U80 or some other lens and keep it all under 3 grand....
I did not know about this projector. Guess I need to start doing research on it too. Thanks for the tip :)

Question for you since i dont know. The masking..does it block the sound coming out of your speakers from behind the screen for your 16:9 movies? I really like the concept of 235 and want to do it for my future ht. Thanks

Question for you since i dont know. The masking..does it block the sound coming out of your speakers from behind the screen for your 16:9 movies? I really like the concept of 235 and want to do it for my future ht. Thanks
For 2.35:1 AT screens w/all speakers behind, you need to use AT masking material as well, such as black speaker cloth or black GOM.

Good News!! The wife approved the columns on the sides and the 2.35:1 screen setup. Yea!!

Now I need to figure out about the projector location, etc. Tim, you are right about the Pana 900U -- it definitely has the most flexible lens zoom. I still need to do some drawings to see what options I have in my room.

Here is a side view of the room and the (2) locations I have come up with for the projector. Position 1 is at 12.5' and Position 2 is at 16'. If I plan to (or have future plans) for a anamorphic lens, the further back the better (1.7x or greater 1.78:1 screen widths is recommended). But if the projector is back that far, I will only be able to get a 1.78:1 screen at the proper height with the Pana AE-900U projector. All the others cannot zoom in enough to fit the height of the image on the screen. So, the 900U may be the only way to go with my setup. One good part about that decision is that projector's price is so attractive, it may allow me to get a lens like the Panamorph U80 (https://www.panamorph.com/Products.html) and still stay in budget.

Great news on the WAF approval! I have a suggestion and a question..

Since you've already decided on the 2.35:1 screen and haven't yet decided on a projector, my recommendation is to ensure that you budget first and foremost for a lens. There are a couple of benefits to this approach:
- You'll want to get one anyway, so get it out of the way now
- You'll likely not notice as much of a difference between projectors that are the cost of a lens (~$500) difference
- Your projector options are wide open since you don't have to worry at all about zoom (since every projector will have at least some amount of zoom)
- You get it all mounted at the same time
- You don't have to worry about bugging your wife for another "upgrade" right after you just built your theater.. :rolleyes: :)

My question is regarding your front speakers. First of all, do you have your speakers yet, or have you just decided (pulling this from your OP) that you'll get 20s and a 570? Now that you're going the AT route, have you considered having all three L/C/R be the same speaker?

How about this one? I would go with 2' 6" wide bass traps and move the columns to the outside edges of the front wall. The speakers would be behind a AT screen. I give up a wider column and the metal-inlay "X" design. Not sure if the wife will go for this either (or Bryan, LOL!)

NOTE: Tim, I used "matched" Studio 100s in the pic just for you :P

Hi Steve,

Well, I don't feel as bad about all of the alternate ideas I bring up while helping you now lolol. Two items:

1. If you are still planning on the "X" design in the side and rear columns, I would definately try to keep that on the front columns that will be the most often loked (granted it may be in the dark)

2. What is the depth of the front columns? WIll you have enough clearance (Clarence) for the equipment room door to open? I can't remember how far away from the front wall the door is.

David

Great news on the WAF approval! I have a suggestion and a question..

Since you've already decided on the 2.35:1 screen and haven't yet decided on a projector, my recommendation is to ensure that you budget first and foremost for a lens. There are a couple of benefits to this approach:
- You'll want to get one anyway, so get it out of the way now
- You'll likely not notice as much of a difference between projectors that are the cost of a lens (~$500) difference
- Your projector options are wide open since you don't have to worry at all about zoom (since every projector will have at least some amount of zoom)
- You get it all mounted at the same time
- You don't have to worry about bugging your wife for another "upgrade" right after you just built your theater.. :rolleyes: :)

My question is regarding your front speakers. First of all, do you have your speakers yet, or have you just decided (pulling this from your OP) that you'll get 20s and a 570? Now that you're going the AT route, have you considered having all three L/C/R be the same speaker?
Tim,

Sounds like a "priceless" ad to me - LOL!

No, I have not bought my speakers yet (still deciding) but am definitely considering matched L/C/R in the front.

As far as the anamorphic lens, I found this one too. It is not "available" yet to the public but it looks promising. All I can say is it costs about the same as the u80 and does a horizontal stretch (vs. the U80 that does a vertical squeeze). HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=676352&page=1&pp=30) is the thread.

Hi Steve,

Well, I don't feel as bad about all of the alternate ideas I bring up while helping you now lolol. Two items:

1. If you are still planning on the "X" design in the side and rear columns, I would definately try to keep that on the front columns that will be the most often loked (granted it may be in the dark)

2. What is the depth of the front columns? WIll you have enough clearance (Clarence) for the equipment room door to open? I can't remember how far away from the front wall the door is.

David
David,

"X" is gone :( I need to keep the columns on either side as slim as possible so not to block the corner bass traps. Bryan and I are still working on the details. As far as depth, we'll need to cut them down once again. They'll be shallow -- maybe 2-3". We about about 4" between the front wall and the hinges of the equipment door on the front right side of the room -- so we should be fine.

Change is a good thing if it gets you a bigger screen :D And, yes, you can quote me on that :p

As far as the anamorphic lens, I found this one too. It is not "available" yet to the public but it looks promising. All I can say is it costs about the same as the u80 and does a horizontal stretch (vs. the U80 that does a vertical squeeze). HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=676352&goto=newpost) is the thread.
Wow, considering the ISCO? That's more than the cost of any projector you've been considering (at least that you've mentioned) yet... I'd personally look at one of the Prismasonics for the price range of projector you're looking at. (e.g. You could get a Ruby and Prismasonic for the cost of an ISCO and PE7700, most likely).

Either the H-500 or H-1000, depending on the throw ratio. Less than 1.5x throw (to the 1.78:1 width of your screen), and you should probably consider the H-1000. Otherwise, the H-500 would suffice, from what I've read thus far about those lenses. They also have a pass-through mode, and that can be DIY motorized with a kit you can buy from Prismasonic.

Note: I haven't bought or used their products -- my comment/recommendation is purely based on research.

Wow, considering the ISCO? That's more than the cost of any projector you've been considering (at least that you've mentioned) yet...
Tim,

I think you might be confused on the pricing of the (2) lenses I'm look at.

The price of the U80 and liuwzen's Lens are both in the $500 ballpark. The ISCO and H-500 (Manual) are both in the $1,200 to $1,500 range. I do like the concept of the H-500 with the knob to put it in by-pass, though. They used to have a DIY H-500 but I heard that is long gone. I emailed Alan to see if they were planning to offer that again and have not received a response.

You're right, I was thinking of the DIY H-500 that was an option before.. too bad it's apparently not anymore. (that's news to me). I thought the ISCO II was MSRP of more like $5K, or is that the III?

You're right, I was thinking of the DIY H-500 that was an option before.. too bad it's apparently not anymore. (that's news to me). I thought the ISCO II was MSRP of more like $5K, or is that the III?
I'm not sure how much those ISCO lenses are exactly but they are expensive. Too bad they do cost so much.

I must say building this room is frustrating and fun at the same time. I was up in the room last night ready to cut some holes in the drywall and eyed (3) more things I needed to add to my "to-do" list. I just never ends.

I'll get there but it's hard to get motivated when it's 9:30pm and the wife is sitting down watching Desperate Housewives or Grey's Anatomy. Luckily I have (2) Tivos so I can get caught up SOME day :)

Oh and Tim -- this is all your fault ;) I have to rerun some cables in the back now because of you. This 2.35:1 setup has changed my rear wall design too (mainly the projector location). No worries, I will be a happy camper when it is done and I'm enjoying some movies.

I just looked them up again and it seems Isco II are $1.5K MSRP, and Isco III are $5K MSRP.

Better to do it now when it's all ripped up (not finished), than when it's "finished" (and you don't have the motivation to change something as significant as that). You'll thank me later.. ;)

Better to do it now when it's all ripped up (not finished), than when it's "finished" (and you don't have the motivation to change something as significant as that). You'll thank me later.. ;)
Yes, you are right. Thanks for giving me the push I needed :D

Wow, considering the ISCO?

I think he means the new lens from Liuwzen - a forum member. From what I have read he is in negotiations w/Alan to market the lens to AVS members.

Insulation Question For You Guys!

I have a 3” deep wall cavity. It is on an external wall. I want to get the highest R-Value w/ insulation in the wall in the limited space I have. I see these as my choices:

1) R-13 fluffy but it will be compressed ½” (net slightly lower R-Value)

2) R-19 fluffy but it will be compressed 2 ½” (net lower R-Value – but will it be higher than R-13?)

3) (4) layers of that foam-board insulation (like pink styrofoam but more dense). It is ¾” thick and is rated at R3.5. (4) layers of this would net R14 and only take up 3”

4) Same as #4 but this foam-board insulation has silver paper on one side, white paper on the other and a yellow core. It ¾” thick and is rated at R4. (4) layers of this would net R16 and only take up 3”. The main issue I have with this is it will be applied to an external wall. I’ve been told by another fellow AVSer (that installs insulation part-time) that you want 1-layer of paper for a vapor barrier but only one or moister may get tapped (which can create black mold).

If anyone can guide me on this, I would appreciate it. It will be in (2) small areas – each about 4’ tall x 16” wide.

Thanks again!

I'd go option one and make your life easier. Won't make a huge difference in roo temperature between one and two if you're compressing. PLus you'll have to get the drywall voer it. I never liked the foam board, but thats me.

Bud

The R-19 won't be very "fluffy" if it's compressed inside a space 1/2 the depth it's intended for, will it? ;)

What is the material of that cavity? Concrete block, wood framing, etc?

I typically only use the foam board as one layer between the framed wall and concrete block, since you need a gap there anyway, so you might as well put some insulation there. Otherwise, just use whatever batt insulation is intended for the space. In this case, R-13 (Option #1).

There is so little benefit to using R-19 instead of R-13 that it's almost never worth it.

Besides, it gives you another exciting opportunity to breathe fiberglass.

Tim -- the outside edge of the wall is that cardboard/masonite type sheathing with hardyboard on the other side of that. There are regular studs on either side of the cavity.

Bud -- Thanks for the advice. I'll just use the R-13 (compressed 1/2") and call it a day. Simple and effective.

Oh and Tim, yes -- love those fiberglass fibers in my lungs :rolleyes: I'll be up in the attic tomorrow re-routing the cables for the projector (more on that tomorrow as I have a lot to tell everyone w/ PICS) And NO, I didn't win the lottery :(

Ah yes, the attic... very hot as well, not to mention the insulation. I'm up in my attic so often that I installed permanent outlets and lights up there to work... (rerouting electrical, low voltage, fixing bathroom fan, yadda yadda). One flick of the switch upon entering, and it's all lit up; it was well worth it.

Update…

I told you I had some surprises for you. In a nutshell, I made some “in the field” changes to the room. It’s a long story why but let’s just say the wife was involved in this decision. And that’s all I’m going to say about that ;)

The major change is instead of doing chiseled panels from floor to ceiling on all walls, I’ve moved to individual panels hung like large pieces of canvas art. The good part about this change is my panel count went from 52 down to a mere 13 panels :D

Here are some quick pics of the walls with the new design.

Left Wall
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/left.jpg


Right Wall
--> The left door is my equipment closet and the right door is entry/exit into the room. The plan is to buy a cheap solid core door for the closet and veneer it with Maple. A flat door is important since I need to attach the fabric directly to the door. The entry/exit door is slated for a 2 or 6 panel look since no panel will be attached. I plan to get one with a maple finish too. However, these doors are pricy so I need to shop around.
--> The picture is a little deceiving. The entry/exit door is actually recessed into a 1” deep nook – so it is set away from the rest of the room
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/right.jpg


Rear Wall
--> The main change to this wall is the projector will now be housed in a hidden box between the columns. This hidden box area will be curved to match the barrel diffuser below but will stick out about 22” at its peak (barrel only sticks out about 6”). I’ll have more on that when build it.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/rear.jpg


Front Wall
--> Because of miltimj/Tim, I have been rethinking this wall too. I have ditched the columns (I will miss them) and opted for either a 118” wide 2.35:1 screen or a 110” wide 1.78:1 screen (still deciding). I think the largest concern I have is teaching the wife to switch between 2:35.1 and 1.78:1. I know I can use a HTPC and an anamorphic lens that can be slid out of the way (or put in pass-thru) – however, I’ve heard when it is “out of the way”, the focus needs to be re-adjusted. This will be impossible since the projector is up inside a box. Any help on what others have done with a lens would be appreciated.

118” wide 2.35:1 screen (and I agree this one looks the best)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/front1.jpg

108” wide 1.78:1 screen
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/front2.jpg


Lighting
--> With the new change, I have also removed the lighting I was planning to put in the top of the columns and added can lights to light up the wall panels and the front screen.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Lighting.jpg

Now – onto the panels!! Yldesyde/David came over this weekend and we made all 13 panels. Thanks again David for all your help – it is greatly appreciated! We even covered one with GOM to see how it would look. I must say, we are very pleased with the results. My wife even helped applying the GOM fabric.

Completed Panel (42” tall, 21.5” wide x 3” deep)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/newpanel1.jpg


Shadow Effect – we wanted the panels to appear like it was floating away from the wall. bpape like the idea of making them 3” deep for some extra absorption – so we did something that worked out very well. I added a 1” inside-edging in the rear (painted black) to allow the panel to sit flush against the wall but appear that it is floating 1” away from the wall. This allowed me to build a 2” deep panel and a 1” offset for a total of 3” of internal depth. I still need to do some perfecting but the basic concept is there and since the 1” offset is attached with screws, it makes it easy to change :)

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/newpanel-shadow.jpg ... http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/NewPanel-Rear.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/NewPanel-SideRear.JPG


Panel Construction – I do not have any process shots because we used the same technique as we did on the other panels. Here are a few pics of the “raw” panels.

Front and Side
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/NewPanel-RawFront.JPG ... http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/NewPanel-RawSide.JPG


Here are 12 of the 13 panels. 11 are all the same size and 2 of them are about 3” narrower because of where they needed to be placed.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/NewPanel-AlRaw.JPG

Room Update
--------------------
And .. finally some pics of the room as it stands now. I still need to get the vault taped and textured. Now that I’m not covering all the walls with panels (floor to ceiling), I needed to put some extra care to cover up all the holes I made when we installed wires around the room. You will notice lots of drywall patches. I’m basically done and will have the painter re-texture them when he does the vault.

Left Side
--> Those are the OLD panels sitting on the floor in the corner. Those will soon be thrown away.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LeftRoom1.JPG


Right Side
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/RightRoom1.JPG


Rear Side
--> If you look closely, you will notice (2) MDF boxed on either side of the window (window to be covered up soon). These are 2.5” deep and are there to allow a slightly deeper “sealed” speaker. Because of my limited room size, I was forced to make the rear columns as shallow as I could (6.25” to be exact). I know adding 2.5” to the depth isn’t much but every little bit helps. For example, the Ascend 200s are 6.5” deep – so this minor adjustment will allow me to use these speakers vs. an in-wall.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/RearRoom1.JPG


BTW – Next on the list are the columns. I plan to start on those next weekend. I need to setup a few prototype maple boards to test stain color and run it by the wife. Once I get the technique down and wife approval, we’re good to go.

Man, that's a lot of info for a couple posts! I think the "floating" effect on the panels will look pretty cool. Go with the 2.35 screen!

Wow, I'll say! Nice job in the design phase, and to get the panels finished, too. Let me guess.. you wanted to do them before you showed us so you wouldn't change your mind? :D

Regarding the refocus on pass-through mode, see the 2nd page of this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554901&page=2&pp=30

Post #47 describes the conclusion it seems, that you don't need to focus, and that you can either focus between the two settings, or one user experienced better focus in pass-through mode after adjusting while in stretch mode (possibly seeing it more detailed).

How did/will you mount the panels on the wall? I see how it's constructed, but not how you'll attach it.

Nice job.. they look great!

Oh, and guess which front wall screen AR I'd go with.. ;)

From what I've read, you focus with the lens on, and then when you remove the lens, it won't result in a blurrier image.

Man, that's a lot of info for a couple posts! I think the "floating" effect on the panels will look pretty cool. Go with the 2.35 screen!
I figured you guys would want an update.

The wife is really pushing me to finish this room ASAP. Now that I have her involved, it might go a bit faster. We intend to put a faux finish on the walls of some type. She is working on that now. I do know the wall color will be lighter than the panels (medium intensity) and the ceiling will be something VERY similar to what ebr did on his ceiling (basically a night sky blue). We both really like that color.

Wow, I'll say! Nice job in the design phase, and to get the panels finished, too. Let me guess.. you wanted to do them before you showed us so you wouldn't change your mind? :D

Regarding the refocus on pass-through mode, see the 2nd page of this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554901&page=2&pp=30

Post #47 describes the conclusion it seems, that you don't need to focus, and that you can either focus between the two settings, or one user experienced better focus in pass-through mode after adjusting while in stretch mode (possibly seeing it more detailed).

How did/will you mount the panels on the wall? I see how it's constructed, but not how you'll attach it.

Nice job.. they look great!

Oh, and guess which front wall screen AR I'd go with.. ;)
I finally had a chance to look at that thread. Good info. Glad to hear that it will not be an issue.

It's really too bad that all the HE lenses are so expensive (with the exception of liuwzen's lens). Panamorph's U80 is priced right but vertically compresses the image (vs. expanding it horizontally). That's great if you only watch 2.35:1 content (on a 2.35:1 screen), but not so good if you watch 16:9 content too (with the same screen). The issue is you need to zoom the projector WAY out so the width of the image is the width of the screen. The lens then squeezes the image down to fit the height of the screen. BUT.. when you want to watch 16:9 content, you move the lens out of the way (which I can deal with) and zoom down the projector (manually) so the image fits the screen height. I don't think this will fly with the wife in the "ease of use" category -- if you know what I mean ;)

So, off to do more research.

From what I've read, you focus with the lens on, and then when you remove the lens, it won't result in a blurrier image.
Your information is correct. Thanks for the comment.

I may actually get the projector and a big white drop cloth to see what screen size works for me. Then after I've figured it out (in a real-life application), I'll purchase the screen and the lens at the same time.

I finally had a chance to look at that thread. Good info. Glad to hear that it will not be an issue.

It's really too bad that all the HE lenses are so expensive (with the exception of liuwzen's lens). Panamorph's U80 is priced right but vertically compresses the image (vs. expanding it horizontally). That's great if you only watch 2.35:1 content (on a 2.35:1 screen), but not so good if you watch 16:9 content too (with the same screen). The issue is you need to zoom the projector WAY out so the width of the image is the width of the screen. The lens then squeezes the image down to fit the height of the screen. BUT.. when you want to watch 16:9 content, you move the lens out of the way (which I can deal with) and zoom down the projector (manually) so the image fits the screen height. I don't think this will fly with the wife in the "ease of use" category -- if you know what I mean ;)

So, off to do more research.

I'm having the same headache as you. I stumbled onto the U80 a few weeks ago and it's right in my price range. But I don't want to deal with re-zooming the projector for HD content and movies. I wonder if a scaler would offset that? I do plan on a scaler at some point..... Maybe I could live with it for a while until I bought a scaler...???

Is Liuwzen selling his lens yet? I read a bit about it but haven't followed it much at this point.

I'm having the same headache as you. I stumbled onto the U80 a few weeks ago and it's right in my price range. But I don't want to deal with re-zooming the projector for HD content and movies. I wonder if a scaler would offset that? I do plan on a scaler at some point..... Maybe I could live with it for a while until I bought a scaler...???

Is Liuwzen selling his lens yet? I read a bit about it but haven't followed it much at this point.
Jerrod,

If you use a HTPC, TheaterTek ($50) and ffdShow (free I think), you've got a damn good scaler. However, I'm not sure if that alone would solve the "zooming in" issue. Maybe with some parts from Radio Shack and my old erector set, I can make a motorized zoom. Or just suck it up and get a Optima H79 like Ruben (with the motorized zoom) :rolleyes: :D

As far as the lens, it not for sale "on the forum". No discussion about pricing and/or sales is allowed. You might want to contact foghorn17 or CAVX about their experience. However, Liuwzen is trying to get a AVS PowerBuy setup (as stated earlier by sdspga).

What you've mentioned is precisely why I'm only going with an HE lens when the time comes. All of the headache to try and "get around" a VC lens will make the extra cost of an HE lens worth it, IMO.

I think the issue you're running into is you hadn't budgeted for it originally (obviously very reasonable), and now it's an unexpected cost you really want to add, so there's got to be tradeoff somewhere else (or waiting and saving a bit more). Perhaps there is some other equipment you can hold off on (e.g. external amp) and add later. Just making suggestions.. feel free to ignore. :)

What you've mentioned is precisely why I'm only going with an HE lens when the time comes. All of the headache to try and "get around" a VC lens will make the extra cost of an HE lens worth it, IMO.

I think the issue you're running into is you hadn't budgeted for it originally (obviously very reasonable), and now it's an unexpected cost you really want to add, so there's got to be tradeoff somewhere else (or waiting and saving a bit more). Perhaps there is some other equipment you can hold off on (e.g. external amp) and add later. Just making suggestions.. feel free to ignore. :)
The only bummer part is it is quite a bit more. The Prismasonic Lens H-600M (http://prismasonic.com/english/index.shtml) (their entry level) is $1,222 + shipping. AVS had a DIY Kit of this model a few months back (which is not available anymore -- SOMEONE PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG) for about 1/2 the price. I should have jumped on it back then :mad:

http://prismasonic.com/images/manual_front.jpg

I'm with you on waiting or substituting one "item" for the lens. I may just do the zoom out thing until the funds are available (or the 9' 1.78:1 screen and have some attachable masking). Who knows, maybe

I'll win the Lotto and I outfit everyone's HT with a 2.35:1 setup :D

EDIT: Could have bought a H600 used (http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?projmisc&1146513460) for $750 but was too late :(

Drew had identical concerns about anamorphic lenses. I posted a response to them here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7664983&&#post7664983). I'm waiting for the $300 solution to pan out since 2.35 can wait and the screen can be primitively manual masked until then.

Drew had identical concerns about anamorphic lenses. I posted a response to them here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7664983&&#post7664983). I'm waiting for the $300 solution to pan out since 2.35 can wait and the screen can be primitively manual masked until then.
Thanks James. Hmm, the DIY H-600M "may" still be available? I might need to give them a call/email to see what I can get :) Thanks for the info!

Steve,

Have you checked here?

http://www.htlens.com

Victor

OT: Did you get them yet?

Hey Steve - hadn't checked in on your thread in a while. Boy, you've been busy. Busy changing things, that is :).

I LOVE that you're going 2.35:1 too. I made that switch early on and, even though I don't even have it up and going yet, I'm expecting to really be happy about it. It threw me some real headaches as well. I'm going to go sans lens to start and see how that does. In preliminary testing it seems to work fine, but I do have 1080 vertical pixels to work with.

Steve,

Have you checked here?

http://www.htlens.com

Victor

OT: Did you get them yet?
Yes, I saw this before. This brand lens is a vertical squeeze.. which may work. The issues comes in when I want to watch 1.78:1 content. A bit more difficult for the wife. I'm still thinking about it.

Oh, yes, I did get them and they are "downloading" like hotcakes!

Hey Steve - hadn't checked in on your thread in a while. Boy, you've been busy. Busy changing things, that is :).

I LOVE that you're going 2.35:1 too. I made that switch early on and, even though I don't even have it up and going yet, I'm expecting to really be happy about it. It threw me some real headaches as well. I'm going to go sans lens to start and see how that does. In preliminary testing it seems to work fine, but I do have 1080 vertical pixels to work with.
Just call me the "Change King". But, 2.35:1 does sound pretty cool. I have a little more research to do.

I am not aware of the "sans" lens you mentioned? Can you give me more info on that?

How did/will you mount the panels on the wall? I see how it's constructed, but not how you'll attach it.
Tim,

I just noticed I never answered this question. Since these things are a little on the heavy side, I have a few options:

1a) Screw a cleat to the wall with a small lip to hold it tight <or>

1b) Use those "screw in" wall anchors.

2) I will also put industrial velcro in the corners to add a bit more support and eliminate any vibration. I think it will work out well. That way, if I ever need to pull them down for any reason, it will be easy.

Just call me the "Change King". But, 2.35:1 does sound pretty cool. I have a little more research to do.

I am not aware of the "sans" lens you mentioned? Can you give me more info on that?

I think he means "without" lens, you know, like sans serif fonts (without those little flags on the fonts). ;)

I think he means "without" lens, you know, like sans serif fonts (without those little flags on the fonts). ;)
Ahh -- gotcha. Did not catch that :p Thanks.

Quick Update...

I did a few stain samples yesterday and this morning before work. The last sample I did turned out perfectly. I plan to apply a satin finish to it this eve for a better feel of the end product. I ended up applying everything by hand (vs. with a sprayer) and the results (once I got the technique down) were perfect. More soon...

I think he means "without" lens, you know, like sans serif fonts (without those little flags on the fonts).


Ahh -- gotcha. Did not catch that :p Thanks.

hehe, I was wondering what brand SANS was also :)

Column Staining Update …

Well, I finished my sample and I am very pleased with the result. With a few trial and error tests, I was able to get the formula down to near perfect.

In order to stain Maple, it requires some extra conditioning “before” you actually apply the stain. I used shellac and denatured alcohol as my mixture. The idea is to put a very thin layer of the shellac to fill the grain. This allows the stain to have a more even coverage over the wood without a bunch a really dark spots. I ended up using a 2 to 1 mixture – 2 parts denatured alcohol and 1 part shellac. It’s kind of like watering it down. You just mix them together in a can and brush it on like paint (or spray if you wish). The alcohol evaporates pretty quickly once on the wood leaving only a thin layer shellac.

After waiting an hour for the shellac to dry, I did a light sanding with 220 grit sandpaper and applied the stain. The stain can be applied with a rag, foam brush or a sprayer. I tried the rag technique 1st, and this is how it turned out. You can see my wiping motions – not good. It does have character, though :rolleyes:

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Stain-Try2.JPG


However, the good part about this experiment was I got the shellac formula right so it was time to move onto a larger piece. The next piece was 16” wide by about 22” tall. My columns are 16” wide so this will give me a good sense of what the final product will look like. I applied the shellac one eve, stain the next morning and the eve – all with a foam brush this time (thanks Ronnie for the tip). I left the stain on for 5 min for the 1st coat and 10 minutes on the 2nd coat before wiping it off. I’ll probably do 10 and 10 when I do the real columns. Last night before I went to bed, I applied 1 coat of satin clear coat. This morning before work, I ran some 0000 steel wool over the finish to smooth it out (and prepare it for the next coat of clear (which I’ll do later).

I took some pics with the metal inlays installed. I just had to see how it was going to look. The metal inlays (3/8” wide aluminum track I found at HD -- $8 for 8’). I used a 1/2" router bit and a straight guide to cut the notches.

Which one do you prefer? My wife has not seen this yet, so her vote may veto what you guys pick. I think my favorite is the 1st one but I'm still deciding. It was really hard to get a good pic of this so you kind of have to use your imagination a bit.

Option #1 – metal inlay inset
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/MetalNotch-Front.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/MetalNotch-Angle.JPG .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/MetalNotch-Side1.JPG


Option #2 – metal inlay flush with the top
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/MetalFlat-Front.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/MetalFlat-Angle.JPG .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/MetalFlat-Side1.JPG

So what’s up next you ask?? I need to route all the grooves for the metal inlays and cut the speaker openings in the columns. Once that is done, I start the staining process. I’m really excited. I’m been up until midnight the last 3 nights and I’m not even tired. I’m sure I’ll just run out of gas sometime this weekend :p

Looks good! Have fun staining. Mine took forever, I expect yours will too!

Bud

Looks good! Have fun staining. Mine took forever, I expect yours will too!

Bud
Yep -- it will. I just plan to hunker down and get it done :D

LOL. Yeah, without a lens.

Sorry, I won't use no more of 'dem "bigcity" words... ;)

It's really too bad that all the HE lenses are so expensive (with the exception of liuwzen's lens).

Steve,

Just got up to date on your thread. As I am in the same boat as you w/desire to go 2.35:1, I have been watching the constant height thread for a few weeks. Looks like Luizwen's lens may not be for everyone. The guys have said you need a pretty long throw (2:1 or so) to eliminate the pincushioning on the sides. The price is definitely right, though if you can make it work.

BTW, I e-mailed Alan a week or so ago for his opinion on some lenses. He advised me to hold out as some lower cost, high quality lenses for HT use are on the horizon. Don't know the exact time period, but as I am swamped at work until the fall anyway, I think I'll see what turns up then.

Columns look great. Love the staining with the metal trim!

Scott

Steve,

Just got up to date on your thread. As I am in the same boat as you w/desire to go 2.35:1, I have been watching the constant height thread for a few weeks. Looks like Luizwen's lens may not be for everyone. The guys have said you need a pretty long throw (2:1 or so) to eliminate the pincushioning on the sides. The price is definitely right, though if you can make it work.

BTW, I e-mailed Alan a week or so ago for his opinion on some lenses. He advised me to hold out as some lower cost, high quality lenses for HT use are on the horizon. Don't know the exact time period, but as I am swamped at work until the fall anyway, I think I'll see what turns up then.

Columns look great. Love the staining with the metal trim!

Scott
That's GREAT news on the new lenses. I think I can use the ZOOM In/Out (aka. ebr's Sans method ;) ) technique until something comes out that is affordable. My distance is just at 2.1 right now so Luizwen's could work for me.

And glad you like the column sample. I should have the "real thing" soon.

Steve, FWIW, I like option 1. From a distance, you get the same effect as the flush trimming, but up close it gives the channels some depth.

Staining looks good. Im sure the pics dont do it justice.

Ronnie

Steve, FWIW, I like option 1. From a distance, you get the same effect as the flush trimming, but up close it gives the channels some depth.

Staining looks good. Im sure the pics dont do it justice.

Ronnie
Thanks Ronnie. They do look a lot more "rich" in person. Plus, the sample only has a single layer of clear. I plan to do 2 or 3 coats on the final columns.

I like option one, looks very rich and upscale. Option two reminds me of a wine barrel.

I like option one, looks very rich and upscale. Option two reminds me of a wine barrel.
You did not know that the bottom half of these columns is either a climate controlled humidor or wine refrigerator. Hmm.. might need to re-think the "barrel" idea :rolleyes: :D

Actually, I never thought about it like that but you are right. I did talk with my wife and she likes #1 the best too. Option #1 will be the way I will go.

BTW -- sorry to break your legacy by killing the chizeled panel look. One thing I do like about the new panel design is I have FAR less to build and put fabric on :)

BTW -- sorry to break your legacy by killing the chizeled panel look. One thing I do like about the new panel design is I have FAR less to build and put fabric on :)

Not a problem. That is whats great about this forum. New ideas and designs keep coming up. DIY HT design just keeps advancing, it great to see.......

If I redo my plane jane columns your recessed metal look is one that will be up for consideration.

Update..

It was a messy day yesterday and today. I am nearly finished routing the grooves for the metal inlays in the columns. I made some good progress and hope to finish them up early this week.

The 1st (2) columns are the rear surrounds. The missing groove is on purpose because I still need to cut out the speaker opening (which will be in that location). The next few are (2) of the (4) side surround columns. These (2) will not have a speakers in them.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/routedcolumns1.jpg


The small piece at the bottom of the 3rd column is an example of the base molding. It's just a raw piece of MDF but thought you might want to know how the height would look with the columns. The "real" base molding will be solid 1x6 maple with a custom 1/4" routed inlay like this:
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/base%20molding.JPG

I still have some more work ahead of me but we're making progress.

Looks really nice steve. That will be a very sharp look.

Bryan

Sweeeeeeeeeet columns!!!

Ronnie

Thanks for the comments Bryan and Ronnie. It took a lot of measuring to get those grooves cut. The front groove was easy but the sides took a bit more care. I needed to be sure (to the 1/32") that the side groove lined up with the front. At that tolerance level, one pencil line thickness can throw the entire groove off.

I now have it down to a science but just need to take my time. This is why I stopped last night. I was getting tired and started making mistakes. Yes, I could have created a jig which would have sped things up a bit, but since I only have (2) columns left, I'll finish as-is.

Oh and I think my neighbors hate me since that router makes so much racket. Oh well, I'll invite them over once the room is done and they'll forgive me ;)

Man, looking good! Because of those grooves (and Sandman's) I think I might do that.... but possibly in the wall panels and maybe/maybe not the columns. Are you doing metal inlays in each of them? I'm thinking of coloring/staining them darker than the rest of the panels to make them stand out. Great look!

All that hard labor is finally paying off Steve. Nice, very nice.

Any new news on the projector decision or did I miss that? Looks like Drew, Mark and Jerrod all went down the AE900 road.

Bud

All that hard labor is finally paying off Steve. Nice, very nice.

Any new news on the projector decision or did I miss that? Looks like Drew, Mark and Jerrod all went down the AE900 road.

Bud

And you too. Thanks for talking with me the other night!

Man, looking good! Because of those grooves (and Sandman's) I think I might do that.... but possibly in the wall panels and maybe/maybe not the columns. Are you doing metal inlays in each of them? I'm thinking of coloring/staining them darker than the rest of the panels to make them stand out. Great look!
Yes, I'll be putting metal inlays in all the columns. It's the look we are after. The "bar" table behind the seating may have aluminum legs to tie in with the columns (the wife's idea). The top will either be black Granite, Avonza Quartz or possibly a faux finish something -- we're still deciding.

However, painting the grooves would look nice too (Ruben's design) and we considered that too. I have not decided if I will stain or paint the grooves in the base molding. Since the plan is for solid 1x6 Maple material, I may go with the stain option because I spent the extra $$ for solid material (and one less step to do).

Your HT is coming along nicely. I'm an avid lurker :)

All that hard labor is finally paying off Steve. Nice, very nice.

Any new news on the projector decision or did I miss that? Looks like Drew, Mark and Jerrod all went down the AE900 road.

Bud
Unfortunately, no decision yet. My work buddy that has the Panny is in India for the next few weeks. Once he returns, I am planning to visit it again. I'm also still contemplating screen size too. Based on my projector distance from the screen, this will eliminate some of the projectors on my list. One feather in the Panny's cap is it's powerful zoom. It is the most versatile of the bunch.

I think you mentioned when you saw it the last time you didn't view any HD content. You really want to see the AE900 in HiDef. It really is a great picture.

Bud

I think you mentioned when you saw it the last time you didn't view any HD content. You really want to see the AE900 in HiDef. It really is a great picture.

Bud
Unfortunately, he does not have HD in his house :( He is not a real technical guy so I'm kind of on my own when I'm there. He does have a nice large room - 20' x 21' and uses an 110" 1.78:1 Carada Classic Cinema White screen (similar to yours).

Well, you'll need to get the Toshiba HD-DVD a little earlier than expected and lug it over there!

Bud

Well, you'll need to get the Toshiba HD-DVD a little earlier than expected and lug it over there!

Bud
Hmm, me an early adopter?? I think I'll pass and wait for Ver 2.0 ;) But thanks for the idea :D

OK, well maybe Ronnie will buy one and lend it to you. :D Hey, just trying to give you some ideas.

Bud

Oh Steve, my advice is don't ever see one (Tosh HD-DVD player) in action if you don't want to be an early adopter. The picture is absolutely incredible and its an extremely good upscaling "legacy" DVD player as well...

OK, well maybe Ronnie will buy one and lend it to you. :D Hey, just trying to give you some ideas.

Bud
Ronnie,

I know where I can get you a great deal on one. Just let me know :D

Oh Steve, my advice is don't ever see one (Tosh HD-DVD player) in action if you don't want to be an early adopter. The picture is absolutely incredible and its an extremely good upscaling "legacy" DVD player as well...
You are probably right. I "may" try the HTPC to start if I can get it working well enough for my wife to use. Else, the Living Room $100 Progressive scan Panasonic will be used until I get some permanent.

Ronnie,

I know where I can get you a great deal on one. Just let me know :D


I just ordered 3 of them. No need to beg, borrow, or steal. One for You, Bud, and me. ;)

Merry Christmas!

Ronnie

Steve,

Did you see this review?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/comparison/z4ae900u/index.asp

I posted it in my thread somewhere. Not sure if you saw it or not.

Bud

Steve,

Did you see this review?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/comparison/z4ae900u/index.asp

I posted it in my thread somewhere. Not sure if you saw it or not.

Bud
Thanks Bud. Looks like the Panasonic is a real winner. Once my buddy comes back from India in a 3 weeks, I plan to visit it again before I make my final decision.

Quick Update...

The painters are here today to tape, bed and texture the new vault and all the holes I had to put in the walls for wiring. They should finish that today and get the room painted tomorrow. I would normally have painted it myself but it did not cost much more to have them do both since they were already there.

We ended up choosing the following:

Ralph Lauren's Rio Grande for the walls:
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/RioGrande.jpg

ebr's Valspar Volcano (from Lowes) for the ceiling:
NOTE: This is ebr's room not mine.
http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P5214608sm.jpg

I still have some work to do on the columns and should resume activity on them this week. Hopefully, I'll have some stained columns to show you soon.

Very nice theater and progress. I am sicken with jealousy...

I like your planning and execution. Really nice job.

My frames will have to be 1/2" mdf and 1/2" ply because I have all the electrical boxes sticking out of the wall by 1". They aren't moving now...

Hopefully they will be sturdy enough.

Gary

Very nice theater and progress. I am sicken with jealousy...

I like your planning and execution. Really nice job.

My frames will have to be 1/2" mdf and 1/2" ply because I have all the electrical boxes sticking out of the wall by 1". They aren't moving now...

Hopefully they will be sturdy enough.

Gary
Gary,

1st off -- your HT is coming along nicely. I cannot wait to see yours completed!!

As for a 1/2 MDF and 1/2" ply - that will be plenty strong. That is what GPowers used in his theater and has not had any problems. Just be sure to overlap the pieces of wood and use wood glue for strength. If all your panels are the same size, you just pre-cut all your wood at once and then assemble. Honestly, it took more time to cover the frame with fabric vs. the building time. I think David and I got the frame assembly down to about 8 minutes (ahh, the power of a nail gun!).

BTW -- the only reason I went deeper was to accommodate a thicker piece of insulation for sound absorbtion purposes (per bpape's request).

Steve,

Can you taste it yet? It is really looking like it is taking shape. I always love this pics in these threads as they go from framing into drywall, they start to look like actual rooms, and I can feel the anticipations and excitement for you as you are nearing the finish line.

Steve,

Can you taste it yet? It is really looking like it is taking shape. I always love this pics in these threads as they go from framing into drywall, they start to look like actual rooms, and I can feel the anticipations and excitement for you as you are nearing the finish line.
Yes, I am getting excited as things start to come together. My daughter had a few friends over this past weekend and they wanted to watch a movie. While they watched the movie on my 10 year old 35" Toshiba CRT TV and Cambridge Sound Works "cube/WAF" speakers, I just kept thinking how good it will be once I get the room completed.

Thanks for the primer. I plan to do some work on the columns tonight. My wife just called me and the painters are blowing on texture right now.

WooHooooo I can feel the momentum building!!!!! Sounds like you need to start thinking about the star ceiling and coffering ;-) Or am I jumping the gun?

WooHooooo I can feel the momentum building!!!!! Sounds like you need to start thinking about the star ceiling and coffering ;-) Or am I jumping the gun?
This is how I see the progression:

1) Sand and stain the columns
2) Wrap panels with GOM fabric
3) Coffered and star ceiling (which includes adding 11 can lights)
4) Rear barrel/diffusor wall

I still have some work ahead of me but I see a small "spark" at the end of the tunnel :)

I walked the room this morning and they did an great job on the texturing. It might actually look like a room after today once the paint is applied. I'll have pics tonight :D

the paint on the ceiling looks very smooth and even. nice job. What color paint did you use?

the paint on the ceiling looks very smooth and even. nice job. What color paint did you use?
Larry,

Thanks but that is actually a shot of ebr's ceiling (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=627306). Mine is getting painted this morning. I should have a pic tonight :) The paint color is Volcano (Vaspar brand from Lowes -- but they mix it in the American Traditions paint). Sheen is eggshell. We looked at a few other blues (some even darker) but decided on this one hands down. A great color and even in low light, the color still has a hint of blue to give it a night-sky effect.

the paint on the ceiling looks very smooth and even. nice job. What color paint did you use?


Thank you ;).

Update....

The painters finished the room last night. The paint is still wet in the pics so it appears a bit blotchy. I think we'll need to put a 3rd coat on today. They applied 2 coats using 2 gallons of paint already.

Right Wall/Vault Before
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Vault-before.jpg

Right Wall/Vault After
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Vault-after.jpg

Left Wall After
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/leftwall-after.jpg

Rear Wall Before
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/rear-before.jpg

Rear Wall After
NOTE: I had them paint the doors to match the walls. However, the plan is to replace them with solid core Maple doors. I'm still on a lookout for some of those.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/rear-after.jpg

Blotchy Ceiling (they are coming back today to put a 3rd coat on the ceiling)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Ceiling-After.JPG


Oh and my Insteon switches came in. They had a 15% off sale last week I took advantage of. Saved me about $50 :) I'll have (6) dimmers (http://www.smarthome.com/2476d.html) hidden inside my equipment closet and (1) main multi-button switch (http://www.smarthome.com/2486d.html) at the room entrance. The other (2) in the smaller boxes are the $20 Insteon ICON switches (http://www.smarthome.com/2876dbg.html) for my Dining Room
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/insteon.jpg

hey Steve
those Insteon switches look tempting to buy I would like to go with them also. Are you getting the software for the CPU?

larry

Hey guys. I just put 35 Insteon switches and keypads in my new house. In the process of setting them up now. I like them, but I will say they may not be as reliable as I'm used to (had a Lutron RadioRA before). Some of them are flaking out a bit (seem to work but don't operate the light, won't link, etc.) - but I haven't completed the setup yet so hopefully, things will iron out. Tough to argue with the price. I saved a bundle over the RadioRA system.

hey Steve
those Insteon switches look tempting to buy I would like to go with them also. Are you getting the software for the CPU?

larry
Yes, eventually. However, to start I can use the built-in functions of the switches coupled with the X10 IR543 ($30) (http://www.smarthome.com/4040.HTML) "IR to X10" to utilize my remote to control lighting. However, Insteon is slated to come out with their own "native" version later this year -- so I may wait for that.

If I go the software route, there are a few packages out there that work with Insteon:

InHomeFre (http://users.adelphia.net/~krmiller/PublicInsteon/): Free but still in it's infancy period.

Powerhome (http://www.power-home.com/): This one looks very promising and is more refined ($70) It has a very robust macro support and looks like it can do nearly anything you can think up. They have a great discussion group (http://www.power-home.com/forum/default.asp) too.

Homeseer (http://www.homeseer.com/index.html): One of the most robust packages out there and costs accordingly. ($200+ at Smarthome (http://www.smarthome.com/prodindex.asp?catid=1033))