Looks good...cant wait to see the final product.

Robert
I should start/finish the light sanding tomorrow and get the veneering done early in the week. Then -- onto staining -- again.

Sweet! Does maple veneers need to be stained or are they ready for showtime? Where do you buy those? I saw some veneers at Menards but I think, they're don't look nice.
The maple veneer comes RAW and you need to stain it the color of your choosing. You can buy the veneer at Rockler and the like but it is expensive. I think it's $50 for a 2'x8' sheet. I found a wholesale place here in Dallas where I can get a 4'x8' piece for $35 -- which is great. More expensive woods like Cherry run about $50-$60 for a 4'x8' sheet. Ronnie_Jackson bought his Oak veneer from the same place.

This is what it looks like in "raw" form.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_Material.jpg

Looking good. I like the modular construction idea. I was wondering how many people you were going to need to put the whole thing up as a single unit! :)
Yes, putting that thing up as a single unit would have been a challenge. I would have also had to use a different hanging method too. I think this will work but it will definitely take a little more "alignment time" to get it right.

My only concern is during heavy bass activity, it might move just a little. My guess is this thing weights about 160lbs total. The mass coupled with all of them connected together should hopefully keep it pretty steady. I may take a few 2x4s and attach it to the ceiling if it seems to move easily after the final assembly.

You may want to coat the hooks & eyes (just one or the other may be fine) with a thick material to minimize squeaking that may occur in the bass scenes, especially since you love bass... :) I'm thinking something like spray/paint on bedliner.

You may want to coat the hooks & eyes (just one or the other may be fine) with a thick material to minimize squeaking that may occur in the bass scenes, especially since you love bass... :) I'm thinking something like spray/paint on bedliner.
One thing I had in mind along the same vein was some heat shrink tubing or small PVC tubing on the hooks. Easy to do and I can get both it in black. Else, simple black electrical tape may do the trick too :p

Hi Steve,

I was reading your project again. I've seen most people use MDF. Is MDF preferred over plywood? Which is cheaper?

Thanks,

Neil

One thing I had in mind along the same vein was some heat shrink tubing or small PVC tubing on the hooks. Easy to do and I can get both it in black. Else, simple black electrical tape may do the trick too :p

You can also buy a can of that rubber coating (not sure of the name for it) that you use to dip your tool handles in. They sell it at home depot.

Ronnie

Hi Steve,

I was reading your project again. I've seen most people use MDF. Is MDF preferred over plywood? Which is cheaper?

Thanks,

Neil
4x8 sheet of 3/4 MDF is $20. The same in Ply (cabinet grade) seems to flux between $25-$35-$50 for a 4x8 3/4" sheet depending on the grade.

I like MDF (and I think others agree) because it will never warp, sands easily and can be shaped with a router with smooth results. The fact that it is less expensive is an added bonus in my book. A few negatives are it is a mess to work with since the sawdust goes everywhere and it weighs a bit more.

4x8 sheet of 3/4 MDF is $20. The same in Ply (cabinet grade) seems to flux between $25-$35-$50 for a 4x8 3/4" sheet depending on the grade.

I like MDF (and I think others agree) because it will never warp, sands easily and can be shaped with a router with smooth results. The fact that it is less expensive is an added bonus in my book. A few negatives are it is a mess to work with since the sawdust goes everywhere and it weighs a bit more.
Would you recommend it for stage and riser?

It's all looking good, I am looking forward to seeing your finished product.

As far as the vibrations of the star ceiling I agree that the hooks should be padded in some way. The rubber product that you dip tools in is called "tool dip" and it would be an excelent idea, the rubber or vinyl hose would also be good, but I wouldn't recomend electric tape, it will gum up and shrink over time.

Keep up the good work, and enjoy yourself along the way,
Brian

Would you recommend it for stage and riser?

No. Use plywood or OSB flooring material. MDF is great stuff for shaping and cabinet work because it shapes well and is perfectly flat and makes a great painting surface (or surface to apply veneer). But it does not have the same strength (pull through or span) that ply or osb will. Also, don't ever let it get wet - it'll swell up like a sponge.

Don't forget to fill the cavities in the starfield framing with insulation of some sort. Don't want to go to all this effort and then have that ringing like mad.

As for rattling, theres' enough weight there I doubt it is going to be an issue. Depending on how far down you're wanting to hang it, you could use a very short, very stiff spring.

Bryan

It's all looking good, I am looking forward to seeing your finished product.

As far as the vibrations of the star ceiling I agree that the hooks should be padded in some way. The rubber product that you dip tools in is called "tool dip" and it would be an excelent idea, the rubber or vinyl hose would also be good, but I wouldn't recomend electric tape, it will gum up and shrink over time.

Keep up the good work, and enjoy yourself along the way,
Brian
I did not know about the rubber-dip stuff. I may have to check that out.

As bpape said, it should not move too much given its mass. My guess is the total finished ceiling will be close to 190lbs with all the lights, star frames, star fiber, fabric and insulation installed.

Hi Steve,

I was reading your project again. I've seen most people use MDF. Is MDF preferred over plywood? Which is cheaper?

Thanks,

Neil
Neil,

Looks like ebr got the question answered. Yes, Ply/OSB would be the way to go on the stage for the reasons stated.

Don't forget to fill the cavities in the starfield framing with insulation of some sort. Don't want to go to all this effort and then have that ringing like mad.

As for rattling, theres' enough weight there I doubt it is going to be an issue. Depending on how far down you're wanting to hang it, you could use a very short, very stiff spring.

Bryan
Glad you reminded me of that. However, I will need to be very careful with placement. These cans can get hot (they are non-IC rated).

Does anyone know a simi-rigid material I could wedge in there between the light and the open space that is heat resistent? Then, when I stuffed fluffy pink stuff in there, it would not have a chance to move against the light by accident. I was thinking the foil-covered styrofoam insulation (duct board??) they sell at HD. I could cut it the same size as the interior dimensions of the box but have enough "friction" to hold it in place about 3" away from the actual can. I could then stuff to my hearts content without issue.

Steve? Could you cut some slots on the inside of the framing and then slide a board into it. Put a few brad nails into it to hold it in place. You could do this on each side of the can and it would basically box it in. From there you could stuff you insulation into it without worry of it contacting the can lights.

This is assuming that your star panel will hide the inside of the frame.

Ronnie

Glad you reminded me of that. However, I will need to be very careful with placement. These cans can get hot (they are non-IC rated).

Does anyone know a simi-rigid material I could wedge in there between the light and the open space that is heat resistent? Then, when I stuffed fluffy pink stuff in there, it would not have a chance to move against the light by accident. I was thinking the foil-covered styrofoam insulation (duct board??) they sell at HD. I could cut it the same size as the interior dimensions of the box but have enough "friction" to hold it in place about 3" away from the actual can. I could then stuff to my hearts content without issue.

You can use Hardiplank or possibly drywall (USG makes a fire rated drywall... I think its called Type X).

Bud

Steve? Could you cut some slots on the inside of the framing and then slide a board into it. Put a few brad nails into it to hold it in place. You could do this on each side of the can and it would basically box it in. From there you could stuff you insulation into it without worry of it contacting the can lights.

This is assuming that your star panel will hide the inside of the frame.

Ronnie
Good idea. I could cut a slit with a router in the top and place a 1/2 MDF divider in there that way (which would be totally hidden). I may be able to squeeze a slightly smaller piece of MDF (or the drywall Bud mentioned) through the existing openings (no no slit would be needed). I'll need to try that out tonight.

I wish I would have thought of this before I closed them up. I'll just put that on the list for "lesson learned". I've had a bunch of those during this project.

Hindsight - $20.20
Sharing with everyone else - PRICELESS

Sorry Steve, I just couldn't resist. :rolleyes:
Thanks for telling us so we don't have to learn the hard way, too.

I'd consider just boring holes in the top of the frame where nobody would see - directly over each of the cans - let natural convection take the heat away.

Bryan

I'd consider just boring holes in the top of the frame where nobody would see - directly over each of the cans - let natural convection take the heat away.

Bryan
I "did" think of that one :) Thanks for the confirmation. And this is how I will slide in the "firewall" dividers after the insualtion is installed (secured with some brads as Ronnie suggested).

The rectangle is the "heat vent hole". The smaller round hole below if for the can.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-Hanging-2.JPG

Hindsight - $20.20
Sharing with everyone else - PRICELESS

Sorry Steve, I just couldn't resist. :rolleyes:
Thanks for telling us so we don't have to learn the hard way, too.
No problem at all. Everyone needs to learn from my mistakes! I know I've learned from others reading their threads. That's what it's all about.

Quick Update..

I have (2) of the (4) star field sections veneered. I nearly screwed up one of them last night. Actually I did screw one up. I got a huge veneer wrinkled on one of the sides. I was able to fix it but really won't know for about 6 months (to see if the veneer stays attached). I used some ProBond II Wood glue to keep it down. It should not be going anywhere. Luckily, the side that is "less than perfect" will be over on the opposite side of the room out of main view -- YEA!

I'll try to get the last (2) completed over the next few eves. I'm on Dad duty the next few nights, so time is limited.

More soon.

Update...

All the star frames and corner accents are veneered. Those tiny corner accents took a lot of time to cut and apply the veneer -- just a lot of pieces. I put the first coat of stain on everything this afternoon. It looks great. I found I need to let the stain sit overnight before I apply the 2nd coat or it does not take. I'll put another coat on tomorrow afternoon. My guess is it will need 3 coats but I'll know more tomorrow.

I plan to order the can lights tomorrow. They will be installed after the frame is hung.

hmmmmmm wheres the pics :D

As requested -- pics! I took the day off and put a 2nd coat of stain on them this morning. I think I'm at the color intensity I want but I won't know for sure until they are completely dry. It is hard to tell what the final product will look like at this stage, but here you are...

The (2) longer ones are the left and right sides. The shorter ones are the front and rear. If you look real closely, you can see the holes under the veneer for the can lights. I'll cut those out after the frames are done but before they are hung.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-Sides.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-RearFront.JPG


Here are the corner end caps.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-Corners.JPG


If things go well, we'll get it hung on Sunday/Monday.

Bud -- getting to the point where I am tired of staining. I have (2) more HT stain projects to do after I finish the star ceiling.

Holy Moly! Those end caps look huge. Is that just an optical illusion? Im guessing 2'x2' squares?


Staining looks great. I cant believe you had to let it sit overnight. Was there anything left to wipe off after that wait?

Im ready to see this thing hanging :D

Ronnie

I put the first coat of stain on everything this afternoon. It looks great. I found I need to let the stain sit overnight before I apply the 2nd coat or it does not take. I'll put another coat on tomorrow afternoon. My guess is it will need 3 coats but I'll know more tomorrow.I'd guess because the veneer is thin it can't absorb much of the mineral spirits from the stain and the rest has to evaporate slowly from the surface. Hang in there, it's gonna look fantastic!! (I'm at the end of two weeks of staining and varnishing the moldings for my room, and I've had just about enough of it, too. :confused: )

I don't want to hear the word "stain" any more. And that's final.

The Romax in picture 8 attic. I don’t mean to be an electrical inspector but I am a Licenced Electrician and I do not see the romax 12/2 fastened within 8" of the box where the conductors are entering it. where are you fastening the electrical wire too. ? This is a NEC basic rule I also noticed 3 conductors going though the one port in the center box. only put 2 electrical though these 4 gang box holes to much heat will build up. when entering the box . some of 12/2 romax cable is turning a little to tight at the top runs there. bring down another 2x4 and fasten the cable with-in 8" of the 4 gang boxes and you will be ok..other wise nice rough-in job.

Wait till you see the cabinet he's building for the back of the room.

Steve,
I will be back in town about Sunday morning 2:00a.m. Send me an email if you want my help and I'll come over as soon as I wake up. Monday may be questionable as I may have to play nanny. Tuesday (fingers crossed) I might have an interview.

Lookin' good Stevo.

David

Steve,

Looks like your making some good progress. The way you're doing the "suspended ceiling: is oretty neat and should be sweet once it's done.

Speaking of being done, aren't you ready for it to be done? I am SO ready!

The Romax in picture 8 attic. I don’t mean to be an electrical inspector but I am a Licenced Electrician Steven,

Thanks for your observations. I would rather fix this now vs. finding out later I had a problem. Critique away :)

and I do not see the romax 12/2 fastened within 8" of the box where the conductors are entering it. where are you fastening the electrical wire too. ? I can fix that. I did not know that rule. I do have some insulated brads at 8" (maybe 10") that you cannot see. I will re-inspect and fix where needed.


This is a NEC basic rule I also noticed 3 conductors going though the one port in the center box. only put 2 electrical though these 4 gang box holes to much heat will build up. when entering the box . That has already been addressed. If you look at the pic below, I ended up putting every individual wire into it's own hole into the box. The reason I "really" did this was to make it easier to label the wire on the outside of the box. See the "Red" circles in the pic below
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/CloseUpElectrical.jpg


Some of 12/2 romax cable is turning a little to tight at the top runs there. bring down another 2x4 and fasten the cable with-in 8" of the 4 gang boxes and you will be ok Take a look at the pic above -- are you talking about the place I have circled in black? If not, please let me know where.

Holy Moly! Those end caps look huge. Is that just an optical illusion? Im guessing 2'x2' squares?


Staining looks great. I cant believe you had to let it sit overnight. Was there anything left to wipe off after that wait?

Im ready to see this thing hanging :D

Ronnie
Yes, it is an optical illusion. They are only 9" tall :eek: :D

As far as the staining, I think I just communicated poorly in my post. I did not let the stain sit overnight but rather remove it after a few minutes. I just had to wait overnight until I could apply the next coat. This stain takes some time to dry and it you reapply too soon, it just eats away the 1st coat when you rub off the 2nd.

(I'm at the end of two weeks of staining and varnishing the moldings for my room, and I've had just about enough of it, too. :confused: )
I don't want to hear the word "stain" any more. And that's final.
Thanks for letting me know I'm not insane for getting tired of doing it. I'm not stained out yet but getting there fast. The outcome of the work makes it all worth it. I still have a lot to do but I can actually see a bit more than a pinhole of light at the end of the tunnel.

Wait till you see the cabinet he's building for the back of the room.
Oh yea -- this should look nice. This is what will cover up the window in the rear of the room. I'll have more detail on that when I get there. I need to do base and crown molding first.

The "cool" part is I'll need to purchase my projector, speakers and amp before I build this cabinet -- YEA! The reason being is the projector will be hidden on a shelf on the top and I need to know how high to put the shelf. Say HELLO to watching some movies in the room (against a sheet that is)!!! Oh and yes, it will be hard to stay as motivated to finish the room -- but I plan to keep truck'n on.

Steve,
I will be back in town about Sunday morning 2:00a.m. Send me an email if you want my help and I'll come over as soon as I wake up. Monday may be questionable as I may have to play nanny. Tuesday (fingers crossed) I might have an interview.

Lookin' good Stevo.

David
Yes, I think we'll be on for Sunday afternoon. I just finished putting the 2nd coat of eggshell on them. I'll put a 3rd on tonight before I go to bed and the 4th tomorrow AM. This spraying thing is cool. I think it took me 6 minutes to spray everything. I love power tools :D

Steve,

Looks like your making some good progress. The way you're doing the "suspended ceiling: is oretty neat and should be sweet once it's done.

Speaking of being done, aren't you ready for it to be done? I am SO ready!
I should have something to show you guys tomorrow evening. I still need to purchase the lights (had a busy week last week and never got around to the purchase) and the star fibers.

Oh -- "Am I Ready to be done?" Hell Yes!!! Yours is coming along nicely too. I can't wait to see you put the final "DONE" stamp on it too!

I'm at the end of two weeks of staining and varnishing the moldings for my room, and I've had just about enough of it, too. :confused:

I don't want to hear the word "stain" any more. And that's final.


Thanks for letting me know I'm not insane for getting tired of doing it. I'm not stained out yet but getting there fast. The outcome of the work makes it all worth it. I still have a lot to do but I can actually see a bit more than a pinhole of light at the end of the tunnel.


Ha ha ha...That's why it is easier to choose a wood or veneer that is close to the color you want to stain and skip the stain altogether. ;) Cherry, Mahogany, Adler for the brownish red color. Black Walnut for dark browns or chocolates, etc... :D :D


Ivan

Ha ha ha...That's why it is easier to choose a wood or veneer that is close to the color you want to stain and skip the stain altogether. ;) Cherry, Mahogany, Adler for the brownish red color. Black Walnut for dark browns or chocolates, etc... :D :D


Ivan
You are right. However, that stuff was nearly double the price for veneer. My wife and I really like Maple (even with all the work involved).

I just finished the 3rd coat of urathane and they look great. I think in some respects, the star frame pieces turned out better than the columns. It took me far less time to build, veneer, stain and seal. Guess I have more experience now :rolleyes: I think the next project on the list (after the HT) is to build a bed for my daughter. It's going to be paint-grade -- Ahh, you know, the material you can fix mistakes with caulk :D

I think the next project on the list (after the HT) is to build a bed for my daughter. It's going to be paint-grade -- Ahh, you know, the material you can fix mistakes with caulk :D

He he...I see you caught the bug. I'm sure you daughter will love the bed :)

p.s. You are doing a helluva job with the HT !!!

Here are some quick pics of the pre-hung Star Ceiling.

This is the finished product sitting on the garage floor. David is coming over this afternoon to help me hang it in the room.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-Stained.JPG

Here is a pic with the can light trim installed (no bulb) so you can see how it will look. I think it will tie in well with the metal inserts in the columns.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-CornerLight.JPG

Very nice Steve. Those corner peices dont look so large now. That thing is going to be awsome when finished.

BTW, where did you end up purchasing your lights?

Ronnie

<cartman>Suh-weeeeet!!!</cartman>

That's a beauty!!

Star Ceiling Frame is Up!!

David and I got the star frame assembled on the ceiling this evening (thanks again David for all your help!)

The unit (if you don't remember) is made up of (4) separate pieces (front, back, left and right). The corner caps are there for decorative purposes only but do help align all corners and make them square.

Here is the unit hung and clamped while we squared everything up. If you look closely, you will see small rectangular cuts on the inner sides where the bolts are exposed. The "access holes" made it VERY easy to adjust the height of the pieces so they were level and even with each other. If I had to drop one down 1/32", it took only a few seconds. The corner caps are glued and brad nailed onto the front and rear sections only. The side sections are held in place by gravity and friction. This will give me the flexibility to pull this thing down quite easily if I ever needed to do so. Honestly, my guess is the next time this thing comes down will be by the next owner of the house when they convert it into the Mother-In-Law room :D
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-Clamped.JPG


Here is the final star frame hung in the room. The top of the unit is 3.5" from the ceiling. I plan to put some black GOM recessed back to hide the bolts and give it added depth. I was concerned this thing would sway quite easily on the ceiling. However, it is solid as a rock. I think the rubber tubing I put on the hooks to reduce any vibration noise and it's pure weight did the trick.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-Hung.JPG


I will be installing the lights once they arrive. The middle section will be black GOM with fiber stars. The stars will happen soon but I want to do a few more items to the room first. Overall, I am very pleased with the results and am still surprised that everything came together so well (from pencil and paper, to Visio, to raw MDF and finally to it being hung).

Very nice, Steve.

We had our annual "Texas" party here tonight and so it was the first time for most of my new neighbors and old friends to see my new room. Lots of "ohs" and "wows" especially after I gave them the sound demo. Only thing missing from my room is the star ceiling but I just didn't have the energy to take that one on. Kudos to you for doing it - and doing such a nice job on it.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing it finished and you can look forward to hearing all the "wows" I did tonight :).

Very nice Steve. Those corner peices dont look so large now. That thing is going to be awsome when finished.

BTW, where did you end up purchasing your lights?

Ronnie
Thanks Ronnie. I plan to get all my lights from USA Light & Electric (http://www.usalight.com). They have a nice selection and great pricing. I originally was looking at buying WAC lighting locally but each light (with bulb) was going to run me about $100/ea (with a contractor discount). At USA Light, it will be about $25/ea. The one unit I ordered (which was used for sizing when making the star frame) looks great and appears to be high quality.

They do not, however, have any low profile units like you are looking for. These lights are about 5.5" tall and the instructions state they need 1" clearance above that to properly vent the heat.

Click here to see the Can (http://www.usalight.com/lighting/rex/rx104r.tpl?cart=115431774113131496) and Trim (http://www.usalight.com/lighting/rex/4inchcans/trim_4line.tpl?itemcount=20&pageno=154&cart=115431774113131496) (last one on the page) I bought.

<cartman>Suh-weeeeet!!!</cartman> That's a beauty!!
Thanks guys!

Very nice, Steve.

We had our annual "Texas" party here tonight and so it was the first time for most of my new neighbors and old friends to see my new room. Lots of "ohs" and "wows" especially after I gave them the sound demo. Only thing missing from my room is the star ceiling but I just didn't have the energy to take that one on. Kudos to you for doing it - and doing such a nice job on it.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing it finished and you can look forward to hearing all the "wows" I did tonight :).
Did you happen to use any of those DEMO DVDs I sent you to show off your room? They really make it easy to get those WOWs your were talking about.

I think our main kick-off party will be "Texas" in nature. As it will be the OU vs. Texas game in October. My wife went to OU and we have a friend that comes over every year that went to Texas -- so things are always exciting. Seeing this in High-Def on a 9.5' wide screen should be pretty exciting too. I'm sure the half-time show will be a full HT demo hopefully accompanied with the "Oh's and WOWs" :)

On the star ceiling -- it ain't done yet but I'm sure it will be time consuming to get it completed. I'll be sure to "sugar coat" the experience to entice you to do one on your own ;)

Did you happen to use any of those DEMO DVDs I sent you to show off your room? They really make it easy to get those WOWs your were talking about.

...



I'm still going through them all ;).

Seriously, I really appreciate you making those up for me but my Toshiba player is very picky about DVD-Rs and some of the demo scenes skip and stutter a bit so I used the WOTW I have on my HD-Tivo (HBO had it on the other night), a DTS music demo I made with some Eric Clapton, Eagles, etc. clips on it ("Father's Eyes" is a great track for this) and the HD-DVD of Apollo 13 to really show off the 2.35:1 and the picture quality of HD-DVD in 1080p. That was about all the time we had but no one wanted to leave...

That looks great hung and I am sure it will look even better with the stars in it. You do have some awsome woodworking skills there.

I tried to download one of the demo disks myself but I htink I am under some funny constraints as to what I can download (firewall stuff here in Iraq). I was wondering if I sent you some greenbacks if you could send me a few of them.....in your spare time between HT building and regualr everyday life :D

Its really looking good cant wait to see more....especially the stars lit up!

Robert

WOW!!! That thing came together nicely. Thats going to be a super addition to the room.

Ronnie

That looks great, I really like the way it seems to float in the space instead of being tied to the walls or celing. You did a very nice job with the design and execution also. I will have to keep this option in mind when I someday have a room to use as a dedicated space ( or a house with a room for a dedicated space... or a house. Oh well)

Keep up the good work,

Brian

Hey Steve,

Man, i've got to hand it to you, you really did an outstanding job with the Star Ceiling Frame. It looks amazing! Can't wait to see the stars in there. Don't know if this has been asked/answered, but are you doing a specific constellation or just random stars?

Not too long ago i saw an episode of Extreme House Make-over (i think) where they put in a star ceiling in a bedroom and also had a shooting star in it. Looked very nice, plus you can make a wish every 30 seconds or so... :)

Wow Steve! That is looking awesome!

Steve, man that is looking great. Can't wait to see the finished product. Hopefully I will start my star ceiling this week. I just finished the planning, but I need to order the black GOM.

Drew

That looks fantastic!

I'm still going through them all ;).

Seriously, I really appreciate you making those up for me but my Toshiba player is very picky about DVD-Rs and some of the demo scenes skip and stutter a bit so I used the WOTW I have on my HD-Tivo (HBO had it on the other night), a DTS music demo I made with some Eric Clapton, Eagles, etc. clips on it ("Father's Eyes" is a great track for this) and the HD-DVD of Apollo 13 to really show off the 2.35:1 and the picture quality of HD-DVD in 1080p. That was about all the time we had but no one wanted to leave...
If I had HD-DVD material to demo, I'd show that too!! I will say that Apollo 13 is definitely one movie I would really enjoy on HD-DVD.

That looks great hung and I am sure it will look even better with the stars in it. You do have some awsome woodworking skills there.

I tried to download one of the demo disks myself but I htink I am under some funny constraints as to what I can download (firewall stuff here in Iraq). I was wondering if I sent you some greenbacks if you could send me a few of them.....in your spare time between HT building and regualr everyday life :D

Its really looking good cant wait to see more....especially the stars lit up!

Robert
Robert -- check your PM.

WOW!!! That thing came together nicely. Thats going to be a super addition to the room.

Ronnie I'm just trying to keep up with the HT God :)


That looks great, I really like the way it seems to float in the space instead of being tied to the walls or celing. You did a very nice job with the design and execution also. I will have to keep this option in mind when I someday have a room to use as a dedicated space ( or a house with a room for a dedicated space... or a house. Oh well)

Keep up the good work,

Brian I went up to the room this morning, sat in my thinking chair and just stared at the ceiling. I was just in awe that it went up so easily. This was one of the things that was really haunting me from the beginning.


Wow Steve! That is looking awesome! Yep -- just glad it's up and the hard part is done!

Nice work on the Star Ceiling frame. Looks fantastic!

Gary

Hey Steve,

Man, i've got to hand it to you, you really did an outstanding job with the Star Ceiling Frame. It looks amazing! Can't wait to see the stars in there. Don't know if this has been asked/answered, but are you doing a specific constellation or just random stars?

Not too long ago i saw an episode of Extreme House Make-over (i think) where they put in a star ceiling in a bedroom and also had a shooting star in it. Looked very nice, plus you can make a wish every 30 seconds or so... :)
Glad you like it. I have seen those shooting stars and the kids might get a kick out of that. I think a star ceiling in your HT would be very cool. It could be from edge to edge. It would be like you were sitting in a room with NO roof.

I have decided on the constellations. I will have Orion somewhere near center. Then, I will have the 4 astrological signs for each of us in the family. I'll then fill in the remainder with random stars taken from other parts of the winter sky. I might even throw in the little/big dipper. The skys the limit right now and still in the planning process. I'll finalize this once I get closer to making the ceiling.

Steve, man that is looking great. Can't wait to see the finished product. Hopefully I will start my star ceiling this week. I just finished the planning, but I need to order the black GOM.

Drew
Drew,

I've already ordered my black GOM but don't know if I'll have enough (I'll know soon enough). I'll be watching your Star Ceiling progress for some pointers-- take lots of pics!

That looks fantastic! Nice work on the Star Ceiling frame. Looks fantastic!

Gary Thanks again guys for the kind words.

Gary -- I'm curious how your new buttkicker config in your HT works out once you get everything setup. Sounds like you did the right thing putting those things in the platform vs. on the actual seating. Please make sure you comment on their performance.

Unfortunately, I do not have a platform in my room. I'm wired for them but may be okay without them since I'll have (4) 15" woofers raising the hairs on the back of my neck :) If my wife only knew what she was in for!

Glad you like it. I have seen those shooting stars and the kids might get a kick out of that. I think a star ceiling in your HT would be very cool. It could be from edge to edge. It would be like you were sitting in a room with NO roof.

I have decided on the constellations. I will have Orion somewhere near center. Then, I will have the 4 astrological signs for each of us in the family. I'll then fill in the remainder with random stars taken from other parts of the winter sky. I might even throw in the little/big dipper. The skys the limit right now and still in the planning process. I'll finalize this once I get closer to making the ceiling.

Hey Steve,

I agree, a star ceiling would look very nice in my HT, and i think it would also give a more spacious feel to the room. But for now, budget will not allow this... :( Maybe as a future upgrade, as i don't think the room will ever be truly finished.
I'd be out of a hobby!!

Looks like you've given some thought to the constellations. I'm sure it'll turn out excellent!

Thanks again guys for the kind words.

Gary -- I'm curious how your new buttkicker config in your HT works out once you get everything setup. Sounds like you did the right thing putting those things in the platform vs. on the actual seating. Please make sure you comment on their performance.

Unfortunately, I do not have a platform in my room. I'm wired for them but may be okay without them since I'll have (4) 15" woofers raising the hairs on the back of my neck :) If my wife only knew what she was in for!

You must have missed my thread on custom Buttkicker install

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=699283

Check it out for the details...

Gary

the wood work looks top notch, very nice job. As for as star ceilings there is a company that paints on a florescent starfield. If you just do in the wood area it shouldn't be that much. I think the price a remember is 1000 bucks for a whole room. I can't recall the company at this time.

Larry, this was the company that was mentioned in Ruben's thread (I think):

http://www.nightskymurals.com/

Bud

You must have missed my thread on custom Buttkicker install

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=699283

Check it out for the details...

Gary
I'll check it out. Thanks for the link.

As for as star ceilings there is a company that paints on a florescent starfield. If you just do in the wood area it shouldn't be that much. I think the price a remember is 1000 bucks for a whole room. I can't recall the company at this time. Larry, this was the company that was mentioned in Ruben's thread (I think):

http://www.nightskymurals.com/

Bud
That looks to be it. I must have missed that post on Rubens thread. Interesting concept. It would be cool in just about any room.

Unfortunately, I do not have a platform in my room. I'm wired for them but may be okay without them since I'll have (4) 15" woofers raising the hairs on the back of my neck :) If my wife only knew what she was in for!

Holy cow, 4 15" subs?! Your wife is going to KILL you! But it'll be a pleasant death at least ;)

(Your website is top notch, did you have to spring for the Pro version of the gallery software or were you able to do that with the regular $19.95 one?)

Mike

Holy cow, 4 15" subs?! Your wife is going to KILL you! But it'll be a pleasant death at least ;)

(Your website is top notch, did you have to spring for the Pro version of the gallery software or were you able to do that with the regular $19.95 one?)

Mike
Ohh Yea!! -- It's just one way to get to the "brown note" effect :D

It is probably a ittle overkill but I love bass -- and I had to "try" to compete with Rubens Danley :rolleyes: In an IB (infinite Baffle) setup, the drivers are not as efficient as in a sealed design so more is needed to get the same SPLs. However, the bass will be very clean and should go down to about 15Hz.

I bought the Pro version. This app is great. I'm actually on the beta team for the next release. From what I understand, we're still months away. However, the new version will have even more flexibility and functionality.

Hmm, I haven't updated the website in some time. Guess I need to do that.

Okay guys – I’m about to order all the equipment for my HTPC. The one I was going to use ended up having a bad SATA controller and Digital audio port. So I’m forced to buy a new one :rolleyes:

Case: Silverstone SST-LC17 (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/silverstone-lascala-sstlc17-htpc-case-black)
http://www.pcalchemy.com/images/silverstone/lc17/lc17b.jpg http://www.pcalchemy.com/images/silverstone/lc17/lc17b-3.jpg

Comments: I like this one because it can hold up to (6) 3.5” HDs. I plan on running (4) 500GB SATAs in a RAID5 config. Since this will be in my “climate controlled” wiring closet, the higher level of noise from the multiple drives will be fine. It can have up to 5 fans in it to keep things cool. I plan to rip all my DVDs and use it as my home NAS device too. I think 1.5 Terabytes (usable) to start will work out fine (about 375 movies <OR> about 35 HD movies :(). Available in Silver and Black


Motherboard: Abit AW8D (http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=313)
http://www.abit-usa.com/images/products/aw8d_lg.jpg
Comments: This board supports the new Intel Dual Core chips. My plan is not to replace this PC for at least 2-3 years. Plus, I'm "in theory" Vista ready :) Also, I plan to use the built-in digital audio out. It does have 7.1 analog out and it touts as being "Dolby Master Studio Certificated" but not sure that means squat.

Power Supply: Seasonic S12-500 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817151024)
Comments: 500watts and very quiet

CPU Cooling Fan: Zalman CNPS7700 (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/zalman-cnps7700cu-copper-cpu-fan-intel-478775-amd-754939940/cName/cpu-cooling)
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/specHR/images/BA30045.jpg

Video Card: EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 7900GT (http://www.pagecomputers.com/store/Product_technical.asp?catalog%5Fname=Video+Cards+%26+Adapter s&category%5Fname=33g33c200s1288&product%5Fid=1022539)

HDTV Card: VBOX Cat’s Eye DTA-150 (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/vbox-cats-eye-dta150-atsc-terrestrial-hdtv-receiver-pci/cName/hdtv-tuner-cards)

SDTV Card: Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-150 (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/hauppauge-wintvpvr150/cName/pvr-cardstv-tuners)

HDs: Seagate Barracuda SATA/300 500GB
Cost: Free: already own.
HTPC and PVR Software: Sage TV (http://www.sage.tv) coupled with TheaterTek (http://www.theatertek.com/), ffdShow (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow) and DScaler (http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/).
http://download.sage.tv/~mlbdude/SageMC_169/main5.JPG
Click here for more on SageMC Skin (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10715)

Comments: I’ve been playing around with this product for some time. They have a skin that makes it look just like Media Center 2005 but with more flexability.


IR Control: IRMan (http://www.evation.com/irman/index.html)
Cost: Free – already own

Wireless keyboard/Mouse
Cost: Free -- already own. It’s an old IR keyboard with built-on trackball. I do not plan on using it much I’ll have an IR receiver on the front of the theater.

Total Cost: ~$1,300 + shipping

What do you guys think? Any mods I should consider/re-consider? I can build PCs with my eyes closed but not sure if I have everything I need for a HTPC.

Steve,

What's your method for ripping the DVDs? How simple is the interface? I've often thought about going the route you're going but want something as simple as the Kaleidescape without the $30k price tag.

Mike

PS. Sweet case!! I'm mega jealous :cool:

Steve,

What's your method for ripping the DVDs? How simple is the interface? I've often thought about going the route you're going but want something as simple as the Kaleidescape without the $30k price tag.

Mike

PS. Sweet case!! I'm mega jealous :cool:
There are a number of apps out there to do it. However, I'll probably play around with the one Ruben used initially called CloneDVD (http://www.clonedvd.net/). It only does one disc at a time but allows you to pick the main movie only and the audio of your choice. And if you run into any pesky DVDs that won't copy, you can use THIS (http://www.dvd43.com/) program. It removes the copy-protection on-the-fly -- very cool.

BTW -- your making some nice progress on your HT. I'll be checking on it regularly.

Thanks on the HT kudos -- it's just as fun as I always dreamed it would be. It's funny, I'm kind of torn on getting it done in a timely manner versus dragging it out forever. On one hand I'm already going through withdrawals not being able to watch movies (my wife can't quite understand why I boycott the 36" 4x3 in the living room ;) ). On the other hand I've dreamt of this for so long I just want to enjoy the moment if you know what I mean. But what's probably tempering the whole thing is that I have 4 girls (8yrs - 6mos) and my PhD starts back up in Sep. No rest for the wicked, right ;)

It's a kick in the pants to share what I'm doing with people who really appreciate it -- I think most people think I'm absolutely nuts!!

Oh, and I really dig your curves on your proscenium and stage. Very nice. I had wanted to do curves but they're just so much more time consuming and I think what I've got will still be really nice and I'll be my worst critic anyway :D

Mike

A little outdated and no longer supported is a program called DVDShrink. It works very well. You can strip out the extras and only copy the main movie if you want. For those dvd's that give you trouble, DVD43 will help smooth the way for DVDShrink to do the job.

Ronnie

Thanks on the HT kudos -- it's just as fun as I always dreamed it would be. It's funny, I'm kind of torn on getting it done in a timely manner versus dragging it out forever. On one hand I'm already going through withdrawals not being able to watch movies (my wife can't quite understand why I boycott the 36" 4x3 in the living room ;) ). On the other hand I've dreamt of this for so long I just want to enjoy the moment if you know what I mean. But what's probably tempering the whole thing is that I have 4 girls (8yrs - 6mos) and my PhD starts back up in Sep. No rest for the wicked, right ;)

It's a kick in the pants to share what I'm doing with people who really appreciate it -- I think most people think I'm absolutely nuts!!

Oh, and I really dig your curves on your proscenium and stage. Very nice. I had wanted to do curves but they're just so much more time consuming and I think what I've got will still be really nice and I'll be my worst critic anyway :D

Mike
My wife thinks I'm insane too. Only a select few of my friends really appreciate the whole HT concept. Others would be satisfied with a 36" 4:3 TV (I only have a 35" 4:3 TV myself) and a $300 HT package from BB. The nice part is my wife is excited about getting the room completed too. As far as getting it done, I want to Get it Done! I enjoy the construction too but have like 10 more honey-do projects sitting in the wings once I get this done. If you have a PhD program starting in September, you need to get some coffee brewing because your running out of time!

As for the curves on the front, I think you might have me confused with Ronnie_Jackson's HT (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8052799&&#post8052799). Mine is square and flat -- a semi-modern look. Don't worry, there are a bunch of us working concurrently.

Ohh Yea!! -- It's just one way to get to the "brown note" effect :D

It is probably a ittle overkill but I love bass -- and I had to "try" to compete with Rubens Danley :rolleyes:

Have you seen the episode of Mythbusters where they try to debunk that myth? Fun stuff! They used some killer subs that are normally used for concerts and theaters (but made locally to them, in Berzerkly, Ca). It would be so much fun to work for that show and the commute wouldn't be that bad for me! :D

Oh, Steve, you may want to remove the prices on your post about your HTPC as the mods don't take lightly to that. You can probably leave the links and just give the total cost and not have anyone balk at it.

Oh, Steve, you may want to remove the prices on your post about your HTPC as the mods don't take lightly to that. You can probably leave the links and just give the total cost and not have anyone balk at it.

Why ? I don't think AVS sells HTPC's or computer components.

Ivan

A little outdated and no longer supported is a program called DVDShrink. It works very well. You can strip out the extras and only copy the main movie if you want. For those dvd's that give you trouble, DVD43 will help smooth the way for DVDShrink to do the job.

Ronnie

I second this. I've also use DVD Decryptor prior to using DVDShrink.

Why ? I don't think AVS sells HTPC's or computer components.

Ivan

Oh, is that the big issue on the projector forums? I get it now.

Oh, is that the big issue on the projector forums? I get it now.

Yep. You got it!! ;)

Steve,

I think you forgot the " x 2 " after this sentence:

Video Card: EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 7900GT

;)

should read

Video Card: EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 7900GT x 2 :D

Oh, Steve, you may want to remove the prices on your post about your HTPC as the mods don't take lightly to that. You can probably leave the links and just give the total cost and not have anyone balk at it. Why ? I don't think AVS sells HTPC's or computer components.

Ivan
I went ahead and removed the prices anyway (just in case). If you click on the links you'll get the individual pricing anyway. I love this board (spend WAY too much time on it) and do not want it to go away. Following a few rules is not an issue for me.

Steve,

I think you forgot the " x 2 " after this sentence:

Video Card: EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 7900GT

;)

should read

Video Card: EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 7900GT x 2 :D
I guess since the MB and video card can support DUAL SLI, I should just go for it?? :D

I'm not too much of a gamer but really enjoy the driving games. Games should be almost life-size once I get the screen hooked up to my Xbox and play Project Gotham Racing.

Have you seen the episode of Mythbusters where they try to debunk that myth? Fun stuff! They used some killer subs that are normally used for concerts and theaters (but made locally to them, in Berzerkly, Ca). It would be so much fun to work for that show and the commute wouldn't be that bad for me! :D
I did see that episode. BPape/Bryan has issues with the way they conducted the test. I think he thinks it still may be possible in the right environment. Maybe he will ring in and expand on this (he's on vacation right now so I'm sure his wife is forcing him to stay off his laptop).

That would be an interesting job. I always have to laugh when Adam breaks or damages some expensive piece of equipment (usually owned by Jamie).

It's a great show and my Tivo is very handy so I do not miss any episodes.
http://image.com.com/tv/images/processed/thumb/75/87/5885.jpg

[snip]

...you need to get some coffee brewing because your running out of time!



You're not kidding. I was up until 1:47 last night laying the backer board for the tile under the wetbar. I would have probably stayed up until about 3:00 but I ran out of mortar (doh!). So I was up at 6:30 this morning, ran to HD, got 3 more bags (and some knee pads) and wrapped up the board install (along with cleanup and getting the garbage out as the truck drove up to the house) around 9:30 (good thing my work is flexible!).

My wife is worried I'm going to get myself sick. But I've done this kind of craziness before (my master's thesis was 7:00am - 2:00am for 6 weeks straight, I uh, procrastinated and was out of extensions :o ). Anyway, I learned that eating more meals was better than caffeine. Especially since I was still busy trying to solve problems -- caffeine that late gives me the shakes and my brain shuts down. Plus then when I'm done for the night I can't sleep!

But, things are coming along I plan to prime tonight, paint trim tomorrow night and Friday morning (2nd coat) and then lay tile Friday evening. Good thing I have a buddy who offered to cut for me :D

Mike

I love this board (spend WAY too much time on it) and do not want it to go away. . .


Yes you do. The time you spend on here should be spent finishing the HT :D :D

You're not kidding. I was up until 1:47 last night laying the backer board for the tile under the wetbar. I would have probably stayed up until about 3:00 but I ran out of mortar (doh!). So I was up at 6:30 this morning, ran to HD, got 3 more bags (and some knee pads) and wrapped up the board install (along with cleanup and getting the garbage out as the truck drove up to the house) around 9:30 (good thing my work is flexible!).

My wife is worried I'm going to get myself sick. But I've done this kind of craziness before (my master's thesis was 7:00am - 2:00am for 6 weeks straight, I uh, procrastinated and was out of extensions :o ). Anyway, I learned that eating more meals was better than caffeine. Especially since I was still busy trying to solve problems -- caffeine that late gives me the shakes and my brain shuts down. Plus then when I'm done for the night I can't sleep!

But, things are coming along I plan to prime tonight, paint trim tomorrow night and Friday morning (2nd coat) and then lay tile Friday evening. Good thing I have a buddy who offered to cut for me :D

Mike
Just don't kill yourself in the process. I find that I can work late but make mistakes when I'm tired. However, some tasks do not tend to be as detailed as others -- so late nights are okay. I did a bunch when making the star frame.

Yes you do. The time you spend on here should be spent finishing the HT :D :D
Yes, unfortunately, you are right. I subscribe to many threads so I always have a lot of catch-up.

I'm be out of pocket for a few days but will resume hopefully on Sunday. My wife threw in a new "item" for the HT this past week -- talk about scope creep. We are going to blow a hole in one of the side walls for a wet bar. It will be great but just sets me back a little further on the room.

I'll share the details with everyone once we get them finalized. This will probably be the next item on the list (not the bar proper but at least the opening). Looks like I'll only have (1) electrical outlet to move. And I get to buy a new Tool -- A Reciprocating Saw!

Congratulations!! Recip-saws are AWESOME! I used mine to cut out my old door and it was out of there in about 3 minutes flat :) Those things are sweet!

I saw a cool trick where they cut out an opening in a kitchen wall on "Ask this old house" where Tom Silva cut out the drywall in an area that would be gone on one side of the wall, then peaked through as he cut through the studs but he angled the saw in such a way that he did not cut through the drywall on the opposite side, just the drywall on the one side and the 2x4. This allowed them to put the header and the "other horizontal piece at the bottom" (that's a techinical term) and then cut the drywall on the other wall above the new pieces and they didn't have to fix the drywall on the other side. It was cool but I'm not sure how hard that would actually be in practice...

Anyway, have fun with the saw and don't kill yourself cutting through any live wires, I wanna see your HT finished :D

Mike

Dry Bar – Beginning...

We ended up making the bar area part of the HT vs. in a room outside the HT. I cut the hole for the bar today. When we built this house, we originally made this area as an upstairs laundry room. It was a thought that our girls (once they got older) would wash and iron their own clothes. Oh well, it seemed like a good idea at the time :rolleyes:

So, we decided to make this area the Wet Bar area for the HT. My wife wanted to have a place to store cold beverages, snacks, popcorn, etc. in hope that she would not need to run downstairs every 5 minutes to get something from the kitchen. Today, I opened up the right wall that is shared with the Wet Bar area.

Here is the before shot
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-Before.JPG


HT wall cut. I still need to remove the small inner wall inside. Drywall has already been partially removed from the wall. This wall was a divider for a stackable W/D.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-During.JPG


W/D divider wall gone – a clean room ready for some small drywall patching. I’m planning on an arched top over the opening. It’s a bit high because I still need to install the header and the arch before the drywall is installed. The opening is about 4' wide. The room inside is about 6.5' wide x 5' deep. Yea, it's small but should do fine for this purpose.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-OpeningDone.JPG


Left and Right Side Views
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-OpeningLeft.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-OpeningRight.JPG


The door you see in the right will be removed to make room for the cabinets. The plan is cover the long back wall with a buffet type cabinet (I plan to build that myself). The cabinet will have a small sink and under counter refrigerator. Some Deco shelves will be above (TBD by the wife’s). Of course we’ll paint the walls, install lighting and install a wood floor.

Bpape/Bryan, I plan to have the counter top a few inches below ear level so I can put some beefy 2" absorption on the backsplash above the lower cabinets. This may not be ideal but this was something that made the wife really happy.

More soon.

Anyway, have fun with the saw and don't kill yourself cutting through any live wires, I wanna see your HT finished :D

Mike
Mike,

Had a fun time with the recip-saw. I still have all my fingers and did not hit any wires. I still have more to do with the new Bar area but I'm well on my way.

Hey Steve,

Looking good. About the cleanest demo job I've seen :)

Got to use my recip saw to run through some drywall in the garage yesterday -- there's a good story that goes with it, I'll see if I can get it posted tonight. I don't even get angry when these things happen anymore :D

Mike

I noticed you metioned adding some treatments to the new room....I see your keeping Bryan on his toes, lol

Looks good!

Robert

Hey Steve,

Looking good. About the cleanest demo job I've seen :)

Got to use my recip saw to run through some drywall in the garage yesterday -- there's a good story that goes with it, I'll see if I can get it posted tonight. I don't even get angry when these things happen anymore :D

Mike
Don't be fooled by the pics. There was about 2" of drywall dust and debris in that room before I took the pic. You gotta love those shop vacs!

I noticed you metioned adding some treatments to the new room....I see your keeping Bryan on his toes, lol

Looks good!

Robert
You are so right. I'll also have (2) 3" deep panels (just like the ones I'll have in the room) flanking the front right corner of the room to absorb sound bouncing around in there. Hmm... wonder if Bryan will want any treatments on the ceiling? That might prove to be interesting in the WAF department :rolleyes:

Where's a good place to learn about sound treatment (not proofing -- I've got that covered)? It's about the one thing that I feel like I really don't have a handle on for my project. I'm getting a little more nervous each time I read a post about it.

At this point I think I'll try to put a couple of bass traps in the back corners (no room in the front) but that's it for the most part. I have tile on the right side of the room under the wet bar (and in front of it) and I have no idea what that'll do to the sound.

Tips and pointers (links or books are good too) would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

Where's a good place to learn about sound treatment (not proofing -- I've got that covered)? It's about the one thing that I feel like I really don't have a handle on for my project. I'm getting a little more nervous each time I read a post about it.

At this point I think I'll try to put a couple of bass traps in the back corners (no room in the front) but that's it for the most part. I have tile on the right side of the room under the wet bar (and in front of it) and I have no idea what that'll do to the sound.

Tips and pointers (links or books are good too) would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike
Mike,

I followed this LONG THREAD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=255432) in the beginning but eventually hired BPape (Bryan Pape) to get my room right. I recommend PMing him. He is just wonderful to work with and his pricing is very reasonable. He also provides a wealth of info to help you with your HT build. There are a ton of AVSers that have used him and we are all very happy we did. I would not have done it any other way.

Thanks, I'll look into it. Is this something that Bryan can do remotely?

Mike

Steve, Im really glad you opened up that wall for the bar area. You wont regret it. My brother-in-law had a similar setup in his old house and it was ultra convenient.

I wish I could do something like that. I will have to put mine in the gameroom outside the theater room. At least it will still be upstairs. :o

Ronnie

Thanks, I'll look into it. Is this something that Bryan can do remotely?

Mike
Absolutely! He has worked with most of us that way. Email is your friend :D

Steve, Im really glad you opened up that wall for the bar area. You wont regret it. My brother-in-law had a similar setup in his old house and it was ultra convenient.

I wish I could do something like that. I will have to put mine in the gameroom outside the theater room. At least it will still be upstairs. :o

Ronnie
I'm glad I did it too. I was not excited about the extra work but in the end it should prove to be very valuable (especially for my wife).

I think having one in the game room will be great too. It did not work out as well in my case because of the door being at the end of the room -- it limited things a bit and made it feel VERY small. Now with the entry on a long wall, it makes the room "feel" a lot larger. And, no pesky door swing to deal with!

So whats next on the "to do" list for the theater?

Robert

So whats next on the "to do" list for the theater?

Robert
I'm working on the wet bar electrical right now. I did not get too far last night because I could not track down a specific circuit. It appears to possibly go downstairs to another room. I picked up a circuit tracer from HD this morning so I can find it this eve. I'm moving this outlet to the other side for the under counter refrigerator and pulling a few up (on a different circuit) to counter height. Lastly, wire for under and over cabinet lighting.

Once I get that done, I need to do a little plumbing. There are already washer Hot/Cold valves that I plan to cut off and terminate lower on the wall. I'll plan to lower the drain, too. These will be used for the bar sink in the room.

Next, framing the arched opening, removing and drywalling an existing door, misc drywall patching, and then back to the HT room to do crown and base.

Should be a fun week or so.

damn sounds like your gonna be busy!!

Robert

Quit playing around with the wet-bar and finish off that star ceiling. :D

LOL....Im glad he said it...i was about to :D

Robert

Bar Update -- Even though it would seem to NOT be the most popular attraction ;)

Left work a few hours early yesterday and worked until 2:30am. I really want to get this bar area done enough so I can get back to the HT. My wife and I still need to make a few decisions on the room before I can finish it out (so that buys me some time).

Items accomplished last night:
- Electrical: rough-in is complete. Moved an outlet, added another, re-routed (3) stray wires that were living in the 4' section I removed and relocated (2) lightswitches
- Walls: Furred the left and right entry walls to make them flush with the opening. Added the header above the entry way
- Drywall: Did a small patch on the ceiling where the top of the W/D wall once occupied.


So, what's left:
- Move the plumbing down to a level below the countertop for the bar sink
- Remove door and frame out to be covered with drywall
- Add the arch above the entry wall and drywall
- Remove all the tile on the floor to get ready for the wood floor. The flooring will be of the pre-finished variety but not the laminate type.


And on to the "boring" pics:

Here is the 2-gang box for the light switches. You can see where they were over on the left.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-Lightswitches.JPG


Header installed. I still need to add a support stud on the left and the arched top. I'm planning to get to that tonight.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-Opening-HeaderInstalled.JPG


Because the left wall was set back ~1/2" from the entrance opening, I decided I wanted to make it flush with the opening. Unfortunately, nothing is square, level or even when it comes to builder stud and drywall construction. A lot of "engineering" had to be done to make it as flat as possible. This took some time but once the drywall is installed, it should look great. The cut-outs you see are so I could remove the wire for the outlet that was once there. Each cut-out was where a brad was used to attached the ROMEX to the studs inside the wall. I also filled the wall with insulation to reduce any resonation that might occur.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-OpeningLeft-ReadyDrywall.JPG



Since the right side of the opening was not flat against a stud, I had to sandwich another stud in there to make it nice and flat for the drywall surround. It also will help support the header plate I installed. My wife and I went round and round on how we were going to "frame" the bar entry opening. Finally we decided to go clean and less busy. That is why it will be drywalled vs. framed in maple to match the columns and star ceiling. We both thought it would be competing too much with the columns since it would be right next to them. We plan to add the "jazz" in that room with the cabinets and wall treatment (TBD)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-OpeningRight-StudFlush.JPG



I should be done with this in the next few days so I can get back to the HT -- okay Ronnie and Robert!! ;) :D

Steve, that was smart thinking on the way your bringing that drywall out flush with the entry.

I also agree with you on keeping the entry subdued. It will maintain the look and feel of the theater.

BTW, you know we were just busting your chops about that ceiling right? :p


Ronnie

BTW, you know we were just busting your chops about that ceiling right? :p

Ronnie
Oh yea -- I was just playing it up ;)

BTW -- I'd see if you can squeeze in the star ceiling in your room. I think it would look great. Hopefully mine will turn out great and entice you to make it happen.

Steve, I just ordered the black GOM for the ceiling, it will be here friday. So I will be working on the star ceiling this week and weekend. I am just finishing up the bathroom and will be working on the panels. So it is good timing for you I guess, because now you can see how I work my star ceiling.

BTW, I like the bar concept. Looking good.

Drew

Oh yea -- I was just playing it up ;)

BTW -- I'd see if you can squeeze in the star ceiling in your room. I think it would look great. Hopefully mine will turn out great and entice you to make it happen.


Its on the plan now. As soon as I finish off the walls, I will start on the star ceiling.


Ronnie

Steve, I just ordered the black GOM for the ceiling, it will be here friday. So I will be working on the star ceiling this week and weekend. I am just finishing up the bathroom and will be working on the panels. So it is good timing for you I guess, because now you can see how I work my star ceiling.

BTW, I like the bar concept. Looking good.

Drew
Great -- I'll be watching your thread like a hawk. Mine, unfortunately, will be a tad challenging. Because I needed the room control, I will be using 2" OC703 on the ceiling. I will need to push those pesky fibers through that stuff. I heard it is a little more difficult (from Ruben) so I'm trying to get motivated - hence one reason I am not hitting it right now.

Glad you like the bar. It was a long night last night. My wife even got up at 2AM and said to come to bed. Guess she was just being a MOM. I made the mistake of sitting down in the thinking chair about that time and it was all over at that point. I'm fine as long as I'm moving but as soon as I sit down, I start fading fast.

Its on the plan now. As soon as I finish off the walls, I will start on the star ceiling.


Ronnie
SWEET!! Looks like Drew will be our guide :D

Other updates…

I ordered my Panamorph U85 lens (http://www.panamorph.com/) yesterday. I’m really getting jazzed to use this with my 9.5’ wide 2.35:1 SMX AT screen (thanks Ruben)!
http://www.panamorph.com/images/Produc1.jpg


Now on to something only a few of your guys know about. I was really set on the Paradigm Studio speakers for my room. However, I decided to go down a different path. I am building my own speakers – yes I am a full service DIYer now :D

The LCRs will be a public design available over at HTGuide.com (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=15323). It uses a 1” soft dome SEAS Tweet (http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=2777104.24212&pid=1002), 6” Dayton RS series mid (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-362) and dual 8” Dayton RS series woofers (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-366). These speakers outperform a lot of the more expensive speakers out there for a fraction of the price. Since I will have an AT screen, the center channel will be identical to the L/R speakers in a floorstander config. The L/Rs will be outside the screen and the center will be behind it. Here is the floorstander in (2) different cabinet designs. The 1st one is the easiest to build but the 2nd one looks great with the bowed sides (very similar to the Onyx Rockets). I like the 2nd cabinet best but it will take more time/skill to build because of the curve. I'm just not sure if the looks are that important since they will be hidden behind the false wall anyway.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-Normal.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-OnyxLook.jpg


As for the (4) surrounds, I have actually hired Rick Craig of Selah Audio (http://www.selahaudio.com/) to help me design these. Rick has been great to work with. He sells DIY speaker kits to pre-assembled versions as well as custom designs like mine. I recommend him to anyone.

Because of my close proximity to the side walls, I wanted to have a more diffused sound. I went with a bi-pole for the sides and monos for the rears. These will all use the same SEAS 1” tweet used in the LCRs and 7” Dayton RS drivers (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-374). My side surrounds are modeled from the Paradigm ADP470.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Surround-BP-sm.jpg

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Surround-DR-sm.jpg

Total cost to build all (7) speakers will be roughly the same price as a 7-Speaker Ascend (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/) setup.

I should start working on these over the next few weeks.

Steve, the nice thing about almost all of your speakers is that they don't need to look good, since they won't show.

Agreed. I'm planning on building the L/C/Rs and sub, and have all of them hidden by the proscenium wall. I may just paint the MDF and call it done. That'll save a lot of time.

I'm very curious how they turn out, especially the dipole surrounds. I'm considering the same thing for surrounds, but likely adding a front woofer, or maybe using two 6.5"s on each side of the dipole. You'll probably have to start a thread in the DIY forum just for the speaker build!

Also, allow me to add my "great idea to add the bar/kitchenette area" as well! I'd love to do something similar.

Steve,
Rick is a well respected designer.
IMO, a great call on having him do your surrounds.

Bar Update...

I got the eyebrow top added to the Wet Bar entrance last night. It sure does not look like much but that thing took me some time to build. I'm glad I don't have to build 20 more.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-EyebrowTopFrame.JPG


Because I opened the wall, the rear wall now needs to be double-drywalled and Green Glued. This wall is shared with my daughters bedroom so any soundproofing I can do will be helpful. BPape suggested I do the ceiling too. In order to do this, I need to remove all texture from the wall and ceiling. I've read on another post of a guy that wet the texture with a sponge, let it sit for a a little bit and then gently scraped if off with a scaper. This shouldn't be hard but it will be time consuming. I think the ceiling will be the most difficult because I will be working upside down.

Since I'm doing such a small space, I only need 6 tubes of Green Glue. If anyone has 1/2 a case they want to sell (left over from your HT build), please let me know.

Steve, the nice thing about almost all of your speakers is that they don't need to look good, since they won't show.
Scott,

Are you saying that my speakers are ugly? :eek: Just kidding, I know what you mean. Keeping thim "unfinished will give me more time to devote to other things for the HT.

Agreed. I'm planning on building the L/C/Rs and sub, and have all of them hidden by the proscenium wall. I may just paint the MDF and call it done. That'll save a lot of time.

I'm very curious how they turn out, especially the dipole surrounds. I'm considering the same thing for surrounds, but likely adding a front woofer, or maybe using two 6.5"s on each side of the dipole. You'll probably have to start a thread in the DIY forum just for the speaker build!

Also, allow me to add my "great idea to add the bar/kitchenette area" as well! I'd love to do something similar.
Yes, black may be the best course of action. But since I'm a perfectionist (if you didn't know ;)), I may veneer them since I have this staining thing down to a science now.

Yes-- I will sure let you know how they sound. I looked at the Paradigm Signature ADP for the surround (and we disucssed this off-line) but think Paradigm is doing something special with this setup. And without knowing exactly how/what they are doing, I scrapped it and copied the Studio ADP470. One other thing that held me back from that design was the cabinet size. I was very limited on depth and do not think I had the room for the front woofer and the side drivers anyway. So it all worked out :)

The bar is coming along nicely. The wife stopped in last night to check on my progress and was very happy with the look. It should be nice to have a counter to put food and drinks on when we have gatherings for movies or sporting events.

Steve,
Rick is a well respected designer.
IMO, a great call on having him do your surrounds.
It's always nice to hear others that like his work too. He was easy to work with and his pricing is very reasonable. I can't wait to hear them in action.

Building you own speaker cab is very cool. I could seriously get into that myself.

Building you own speaker cab is very cool. I could seriously get into that myself.
It should be very rewarding. I'll be sure to post progress pics when I get started.

After seeing your star ceiling frame being built, I have absolutely no doubts about you building your own speakers. I'm certain they're gonna look and sound GREAT. :D

Man, I would love to build my own speakers... I had thought about it since I don't think it would be too hard for me. I just wish it was a lot cheaper than buying the axioms I looked at. Right now pricing them both out the Axioms are $1972 and building my own would be ~$1600 (according to what you said?) Please correct me if I am wrong. If I could build a 7.1 system for around $1000 I would do it, but I also want to get the HT done.

Drew

Steve,
You can also use a garden sprayer to wet the ceiling. May be a little easier than trying to get the water up there with a sponge. It gets messy though, imagine cottage cheese and a stick of dynamite

After seeing your star ceiling frame being built, I have absolutely no doubts about you building your own speakers. I'm certain they're gonna look and sound GREAT. :D
Thanks for the words of encouragement. It should be pretty straight forward unless I do the curved model. This one will require multiple layers of 1/4" masonite or luan to get the desired thickness (.75" to 1"). One guy bought some bendable 3/4" plywood. It had pre-cut grooves on one side to make the bending process very easy.

Steve,

I had to take popcorn spackle off a ceiling one time and swore to myself that if that need ever presented itself to me again...i would just rip down the drywall and add new. In the event that this is not an option, I used a 5" drywall mud spatula that I *ahem* :D sharpened a little and that worked like a champ. Just took a long time.

The arch looks great.

Jason

Man, I would love to build my own speakers... I had thought about it since I don't think it would be too hard for me. I just wish it was a lot cheaper than buying the axioms I looked at. Right now pricing them both out the Axioms are $1972 and building my own would be ~$1600 (according to what you said?) Please correct me if I am wrong. If I could build a 7.1 system for around $1000 I would do it, but I also want to get the HT done.

Drew
Drew, you could definitely get in around 1k for a DIY job with 2-ways all the way around. The config would be similar to the M22s in the front and M3s for all the surrounds.

To be fair, my config is comparable to the performance of (3) M80s, (2) QS8s and (2) M3s. That puts the Axiom total at about $2,600. So "on paper" I'm saving $1000 :) If I compare it to the Paradigm Studio line, I'm saving about 4k.

With all that said, the Axioms are a hell of a deal. I've only heard great things about their QS8 surrounds. I would have gone that direction but they would not work too well inside my columns.

If you want more info, just PM me and we'll take it offline.

Steve,
You can also use a garden sprayer to wet the ceiling. May be a little easier than trying to get the water up there with a sponge. It gets messy though, imagine cottage cheese and a stick of dynamite
LOL! That is a great idea to use the sprayer. Thanks.

Steve,

I had to take popcorn spackle off a ceiling one time and swore to myself that if that need ever presented itself to me again...i would just rip down the drywall and add new. In the event that this is not an option, I used a 5" drywall mud spatula that I *ahem* :D sharpened a little and that worked like a champ. Just took a long time.

The arch looks great.

Jason
Jason,

I have considered that too. I'm actually going to try a patch tonight and see how it goes. If it is a PITA, I may just do that. We're talking a very small space -- maybe 3-sheets of drywall x 2. I let you guys know tomorrow.

BTW -- good tip on sharpening the spatula!

Well... I tried scraping a small 2x2 area tonight and it was REALLY a PITA. That is for the birds. Jason, you were so right!

Yldesyde/David may come over tomorrow to help me rip off the existing drywall and install new. I figured I'll need about 10 sheets to do the entire room. We'll hopefully get that done so the door can be removed, re-framed and drywalled over.

Next, I plan to remove that existing tile. I tried to get some up this eve and it does not look too hard -- just messy. They have this orange rubber stuff (kind of like a waffle pattern) under the tile but over the OSB floor. That will make it a lot easier to get the base coat up off the floor without tearing up the OSB.

One other thing that held me back from that design was the cabinet size. I was very limited on depth and do not think I had the room for the front woofer and the side drivers anyway. So it all worked out :)
Ahh, I should have mentioned that I'm thinking of the front firing woofer being mounted directly below, and internally segregated from the dipole space. Essentially "stacked" speakers. I don't think that work in your columns without modification though.

I'm definitely with Jason on the scraping texture thing.. I'd have just yanked it down from the get go, or else framed in the ceiling again for added soundproofing (probably no need for green glue then), but less ceiling height. That's a toss up.

Jason,

I have considered that too. I'm actually going to try a patch tonight and see how it goes. If it is a PITA, I may just do that. We're talking a very small space -- maybe 3-sheets of drywall x 2. I let you guys know tomorrow.

BTW -- good tip on sharpening the spatula!


Steve,

If the porpcorn texture is painted with the flat builders grade paint, if found that by
moistening the popcorn, makes it easier to scrape off. Don't hose it down but use one of those herbicide or insecticide sprayers, you know the one you pump up. It worked like a charm. Use the misting tip and let it soak in the texture for a few minutes. Oh yes, it seems that hot tap water works best.


Ivan

Thanks for the words of encouragement. It should be pretty straight forward unless I do the curved model. This one will require multiple layers of 1/4" masonite or luan to get the desired thickness (.75" to 1"). One guy bought some bendable 3/4" plywood. It had pre-cut grooves on one side to make the bending process very easy.



There is a bendable MDF also. My local Hardwood/Plywood supplier carries it in 1/4", but can get 3/8" and maybe thicker. It the one you mentioned with the grooves. Check out Austin Hardwoods Inc, (972) 241-4777, 11353 Mathis Ave, Dallas, TX 75229

Also, check out Hardwood Lumber Co Of Dallas, (972) 869-1230, 10718
Goodnight Ln, Dallas, TX 75220 .

Hogan Hardwoods (Grand Prairie)
2760 N Great SW Parkway, Grand Prairie, Texas, 75053
Telephone: +1 972 602 1777
Toll Free: +1 800 772 2777
Fax: +1 972 602 0224

Products stocked:
Neatform Bendy MDF
Neatflex Bendy Birch

They cater to the cabinet making industry so probably carry some of the bendable mdf materials.

At Rockler the 1/4" stuff (http://www.rockler.com/findit.cfm?page=11206)

The Neatform Company (http://www.neatconcepts.com/)


Good luck,

Ivan

Steve,

If the porpcorn texture is painted with the flat builders grade paint, if found that by
moistening the popcorn, makes it easier to scrape off. Don't hose it down but use one of those herbicide or insecticide sprayers, you know the one you pump up. It worked like a charm. Use the misting tip and let it soak in the texture for a few minutes. Oh yes, it seems that hot tap water works best.


Ivan


What Ivan said....works extremely well.

How long do you think it will take you to build those speakers?

Robert

I would use Baltic Birch Plywood on the speaker Cabinet and all the internal bracings if they are going behind the screen. A heck of a lot lighter and in my opinion sounds a little better, then you can use MDF for the Baffles to make Driver cutouts easier if you want.

Also ask your designer what he thinks about covering the entire inside of the cabinet with high density wool felt, this really improves them greatly.

Dont forget a Jasper Jig for those Driver cutouts, you can make your own or buy one , they are cheap.

Also if behind screen just cover them with Black Velvet, very easy and makes them blacker than black. much easier and very nice looking, another option is Black no gloss laminate. If your painting them, shoot them with feather fill ( auto body primer with fiberglass in it) if you really want a smooth finish

I have no doubts you will like the sound of DIY speakers more than commercial speakers costing 7 times as much

How long do you think it will take you to build those speakers?

RobertIt took me 2 days to build 7 but I have built lots of speakers and Subwoofers. The cabinets are cake, the crossovers can get a little tiring. The proper tools are the key, a Jasper Jig/Plunge Router is a must for flush mounted drivers. Be prepared for a mess like you have never seen when routing the driver holes/ internal bracing holes, I filled 2 large hefty bags with dust alone.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/HT011.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/HT006.jpg

LOL - Sorry Steve - I tried to warn you. I think rip down/add new drywall is the most expedient way to go. Look at it as an opportunity. Once the ceiling is out - you can:

- change over the existing light to can lights :D
- change over the exisiting light to track lights
- possibly add some sconces to frame out the archway or use in the new space

Mark, thats a real nice looking speaker cab. Beautiful work.

Dont forget a Jasper Jig for those Driver cutouts, you can make your own or buy one , they are cheap.




Good advice Mark. I think it's the only jig I have that I've never questioned spending the money on.


Ivan

When you buy these kits I assume they come with directions....I dont know squat about building speakers but if the directions were fairly straight forward I might give it a try....with premade cabinets though, lol

I like the idea of great sounding speakers for a fraction of the cost....who wouldnt. Im just not sure its something I could do or not since I have very little knowledge in this area.

Robert

Most " kits" have plans usually downloaded from the designers site or some email them as well as ship them with the parts, you can change them but need to keep the baffle measurements true (front where drivers are) and internal volumes. Tools that are nice are Table saw or Radial Arm ( there are CNC shops or cabinet makers that will charge anywhere from .25 - .50 a cut and Home Depot will do it free but I would watch them), Finish nailer, Plunge router with Jasper jig, Pipe clamps. Other stuff is nice but not really needed. As long as the cuts are spot on, the cabinets are very easy if you have a finish nailer. I use Gorilla Glue and line the interiors with 3/8" heavy density felt . Crossovers are easy if you can read schematics and these are the heart of a good speaker, some kit folks will let you go with better caps, resistors and inductors for a little more money.

You should be able to get 20K sound for less than 4k, 10 K sound for around 2k'ish

I'm sure you could also purchase a good quality crossover if you weren't up to making one, correct?

Steve,

If the porpcorn texture is painted with the flat builders grade paint, if found that by
moistening the popcorn, makes it easier to scrape off. Don't hose it down but use one of those herbicide or insecticide sprayers, you know the one you pump up. It worked like a charm. Use the misting tip and let it soak in the texture for a few minutes. Oh yes, it seems that hot tap water works best.


Ivan
Ivan,

In my house, I had the knock-down texture on the walls and ceiling.

Yldesyde/David an I went ahead of ripped down the ceiling yesterday and plan to rip down the wall today. We had the drywall removed in about 5 minutes. It just took forever to move the blown in insulation above the drywall before we tore it down. The attic was hot -- it was over 100 outside so I can only imagine how hot it was up there. In any event, it's done and we're ready to move on :)

There is a bendable MDF also. My local Hardwood/Plywood supplier carries it in 1/4", but can get 3/8" and maybe thicker. It the one you mentioned with the grooves. Check out Austin Hardwoods Inc, (972) 241-4777, 11353 Mathis Ave, Dallas, TX 75229

Also, check out Hardwood Lumber Co Of Dallas, (972) 869-1230, 10718
Goodnight Ln, Dallas, TX 75220 .

Hogan Hardwoods (Grand Prairie)
2760 N Great SW Parkway, Grand Prairie, Texas, 75053
Telephone: +1 972 602 1777
Toll Free: +1 800 772 2777
Fax: +1 972 602 0224

Products stocked:
Neatform Bendy MDF
Neatflex Bendy Birch

They cater to the cabinet making industry so probably carry some of the bendable mdf materials.

At Rockler the 1/4" stuff (http://www.rockler.com/findit.cfm?page=11206)

The Neatform Company (http://www.neatconcepts.com/)


Good luck,

Ivan
I will definitely check that out. I was playing around with some 1/4" masonite and it bends quite well. I would layer up 4 pieces of this stuff to get the thickness I need. However, your idea may be a one-shot solution too.

Check out THIS (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=275777&postcount=1183) post of a guy actually building the speakers. He is going with a curved design -- looks great.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9066/dscn0929gc1.jpg

Also, he bought some of that bendable plywood and was able to get the job done with (2) 5/8" pieces. You can read more about it HERE (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=275777&postcount=1183).
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9286/dscn0950dq2.jpg

Ahh, I should have mentioned that I'm thinking of the front firing woofer being mounted directly below, and internally segregated from the dipole space. Essentially "stacked" speakers. I don't think that work in your columns without modification though.
Ahh - kind of a Axiom QS8 design. Should prove to be rather interesting. Please let me know how it turns out (once you get them started). And, yes, they would not work too well in my columns.

I would use Baltic Birch Plywood on the speaker Cabinet and all the internal bracings if they are going behind the screen. A heck of a lot lighter and in my opinion sounds a little better, then you can use MDF for the Baffles to make Driver cutouts easier if you want.

Also ask your designer what he thinks about covering the entire inside of the cabinet with high density wool felt, this really improves them greatly.

Dont forget a Jasper Jig for those Driver cutouts, you can make your own or buy one , they are cheap.

Also if behind screen just cover them with Black Velvet, very easy and makes them blacker than black. much easier and very nice looking, another option is Black no gloss laminate. If your painting them, shoot them with feather fill ( auto body primer with fiberglass in it) if you really want a smooth finish

I have no doubts you will like the sound of DIY speakers more than commercial speakers costing 7 times as much

Mark,

I have to tell you that YOU are the one that sparked the originally idea to build my own speakers many months back. I've been reading and researching all that time. Your Exodus (http://www.diycable.com/main/default.php?cPath=24_92&Cid=cc79ca87ff3eb3043856172986f758df) speaker (picture in your earlier post) looks great. I love the big 2" ports on the sides. Anyway -- thanks for the nudge :D

I do like the idea of them being a little lighter. They have (2) grades of that stuff at HD -- one is $25/sheet and the other is cabinet grade at $50/sheet (MDF is $20/sheet). Including the front baffles, I will need a total of (3) sheets of 4x8 (with very little waste) to build the LCRs. The combo ply and MDF sounds like a possibility.

Jasper jig is on the on list -- most definitely. One thing I would love to "borrow" from one of the guys building these speakers is this "laser-cut" template for the bracing inside the curved model of this speaker. He used used a trim-router bit to make the shapes -- talk about easy!

And I'll ask Rick about the wool felt. If it helps like you said, a very inexpensive addition.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9492/dscn0939ir2.jpg

Robert,

How long do you think it will take you to build those speakers?

Robert
2-3 days as MarkP says if I go with a simple square design. If I go with the curved model, it will take a bit longer. I have not decided which direction I want to go yet but should have an answer soon.


When you buy these kits I assume they come with directions....I dont know squat about building speakers but if the directions were fairly straight forward I might give it a try....with premade cabinets though, lol

I like the idea of great sounding speakers for a fraction of the cost....who wouldnt. Im just not sure its something I could do or not since I have very little knowledge in this area.

Robert
I don't know that much myself. I have done a lot of research and gained knowledge on the subject. I know electronics and wood working, so it should not be to hard to put these things together (assuming I follow the plans supplied for the speakers).

LOL - Sorry Steve - I tried to warn you. I think rip down/add new drywall is the most expedient way to go. Look at it as an opportunity. Once the ceiling is out - you can:

- change over the existing light to can lights :D
- change over the exisiting light to track lights
- possibly add some sconces to frame out the archway or use in the new space
You are so right. I plan on ording my IC rated cans today or tomorrow so I can get those installed before the ceiling goes back up. David and I ended up laying some spare R19 insualtion over the ceiling joists to keep me from cooling my entire attic. I also still need to purchase my Green Glue. BPape will be carrying it soon so I plan to buy it from him.

I'm sure you could also purchase a good quality crossover (XO) if you weren't up to making one, correct?
Absolutely. Rick Craig of Selah Audio (http://www.selahaudio.com/) has kits he sells with pre-made XOs. You can also order them from Madisound (http://www.selahaudio.com/). Both sell drivers, XO Parts, and kits. They can custom design a speaker for you (as Rick did for me) and pre-assemble the XO for you as well. You can choose standard and premium versions of the crossovers too.

This DIY speaker hobby is a can of worms -- so it does take some research, patience and more research to find something you will be happy with.

Wow, I was a moderator at HTGuide ( Widescreen and HDTV wayyyyy back then) in its infancy.

Looks like Lex has grown, back in 2000 he sounded like he was closing shop so I never really returned. Used to be there was only a couple people in the DIY speaker section but those couple people are some of the best. Jon Marsh and ThomasW are great at problem solving and really love this stuff. Some of the best sounding speakers I ever built were an old pair of Kit 281's ( $300 a pair) that Thomas talked me into downfiring the transmission line vents instead of rear firing and boy was he right. He is also the infinite baffle subwoofer guru, I am not sure if he designed it but he sure promoted it back in the day and theres a whole bunch of believers now.

Mark,

I have to tell you that YOU are the one that sparked the originally idea to build my own speakers many months back. I've been reading and researching all that time. Your Exodus (http://www.diycable.com/main/default.php?cPath=24_92&Cid=cc79ca87ff3eb3043856172986f758df) speaker (picture in your earlier post) looks great. I love the big 2" ports on the sides. Anyway -- thanks for the nudge :D

I do like the idea of them being a little lighter. They have (2) grades of that stuff at HD -- one is $25/sheet and the other is cabinet grade at $50/sheet (MDF is $20/sheet). Including the front baffles, I will need a total of (3) sheets of 4x8 (with very little waste) to build the LCRs. The combo ply and MDF sounds like a possibility.

Jasper jig is on the on list -- most definitely. One thing I would love to "borrow" from one of the guys building these speakers is this "laser-cut" template for the bracing inside the curved model of this speaker. He used used a trim-router bit to make the shapes -- talk about easy!

And I'll ask Rick about the wool felt. If it helps like you said, a very inexpensive addition.
Ouch, dont blame me for starting you in the addictive area of speaker building. At least if your giving the curves a try.

I build all my speakers and the clean them up with a 1-1/2 trim bit, for those that have Home Depot cut their wood, they only have to have 2 sides correct and then use the trim bit after the glue dries. Maybe that guy will send you his jigs to use, the DIY speaker clan ships their stuff all over ( fun group)

And the Heavy density felt is far from " inexpensive" but it really makes a cabinet DEAD and is quite noticable in the final result, I line the entire inside of my cabinets.

Good luck, I am sure you will feel a great sense of accomplishment and satisfaction at having a much better product than you can purchase for penny's on the dollar. Great theater you have as well!

Wow, I was a moderator at HTGuide ( Widescreen and HDTV wayyyyy back then) in its infancy.

Looks like Lex has grown, back in 2000 he sounded like he was closing shop so I never really returned. Used to be there was only a couple people in the DIY speaker section but those couple people are some of the best. Jon Marsh and ThomasW are great at problem solving and really love this stuff. Some of the best sounding speakers I ever built were an old pair of Kit 281's ( $300 a pair) that Thomas talked me into downfiring the transmission line vents instead of rear firing and boy was he right. He is also the infinite baffle subwoofer guru, I am not sure if he designed it but he sure promoted it back in the day and theres a whole bunch of believers now.
Cool -- funny how things grow :) Yes, ThomasW and Jon are Gods over there. Dennis Murphy is strong too with a number of great XO designs (including the one for my LCRs).

Not sure if you knew, but I'm going IB myself (just like you did) with (4) SoundSplinter 15s. Should really rock my room. I told my wife yesterday that we would have a LOT of bass in the room and she just rolled her eyes. They just don't get it :D

Not sure if you knew, but I'm going IB myself (just like you did) with (4) SoundSplinter 15s. Should really rock my room. I told my wife yesterday that we would have a LOT of bass in the room and she just rolled her eyes. They just don't get it :D Rock your room? I think you may rock the neighborhood. Its pretty intense, like nothing I have experienced in any demo of the " super" theater setups

IB??

I guess I need to head over to the DIY speaker section and start reading, lol

So you can really get 20k performance for around 4k huh....hmmmmmm, I must say I am VERY intrigued. If I decide to go this route I may just buy the cabinets premade, wood working doesnt bother me I just dont have the tools. Of course that may change once I start my theater build in a few weeks.

Robert

If you have an attic or crawl space you can have an IB sub, but remember theres as much bass leaving the house via vents as there is in the room, its not as intense because its infinite but still your attic or crawl space becomes a ported subwoofer powerful enough to re-create thunder 1/2 mile away in our case. I would imagine you could rent the tools necessary to build speakers for ALOT cheaper than someone will charge you to build them. Even having a cabinet shop make all your cuts for you should be fairly cheap then you just glue and screw/ nail/ clamp whatever the pieces together. A good Plunge router and Jasper Jig could be had for $300. A CNC shop may cut all your baffles for a good price but they usually have a programing fee of $50-$100 then the actual work would take them a few minutes. I have acess to a CNC but still prefer to Jasper Jig my holes. $4K for a 7.1 system minus the IB for 20K sound in a LARGE room. 2K could get you awesome sound in a smaller room

I don't know that you'll get $20k performance for $4k. But, if you know what you want and are willing to spend the time, you can certainly potentially get better performance than from a commercial product.

What you don't get in many cases is the extensive research, measurements, listening tests, etc. that go into getting to a finished product. In Steve's case, this is a variation on a known design that has been built, tweaked, etc. before. The side surrounds are a variation on a known design to convert it into a dipole design. Other than dealing with the impedance issues with double the drivers, the voicing should be very similar to the known.

One of the places where Steve is going to get a lot of bang for the buck over a commercial design is in the IB sub.

Bryan

One thing I would love to "borrow" from one of the guys building these speakers is this "laser-cut" template for the bracing inside the curved model of this speaker. He used used a trim-router bit to make the shapes -- talk about easy!http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9492/dscn0939ir2.jpg

FYI Steve, many local sheet-metal shops will have a laser cutter these days. I had some custom parts made for $60 for my motorcycle out of .060" thick Stainless. The minimum charge is typically higher than that, but since it was for my bike, the guy gave it to me cheaper since he also rides... :)

But anyway, if you can get a file they can take into their system (dxf, igs, dwg or something like that) you can probably have them do it for you faily cheap.

My bracket:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/SVonhof/kit-1.jpg
installed with the plastic part and LED's:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/SVonhof/sm_led-4.jpg

For $60 he made three brackets and bent them up for me.

I don't know that you'll get $20k performance for $4k. But, if you know what you want and are willing to spend the time, you can certainly potentially get better performance than from a commercial product.

What you don't get in many cases is the extensive research, measurements, listening tests, etc. that go into getting to a finished product. In Steve's case, this is a variation on a known design that has been built, tweaked, etc. before. The side surrounds are a variation on a known design to convert it into a dipole design. Other than dealing with the impedance issues with double the drivers, the voicing should be very similar to the known.

One of the places where Steve is going to get a lot of bang for the buck over a commercial design is in the IB sub.

Bryan
Its fairly simple, listen to your DIY speakers, then go listen to a system with 20K speakers or go to some of the DIY speaker meets where they have shootouts against Watt Puppys and the Bowling Ball trophys. If you speakers are designed by an acoustical engineer respected by many and then the crossovers are tweaked to perfection then your chances are good that 4K will out perform a 20K system with its 75% markup.

Bad rooms with lousy treatments can make them all sound horrible

Bar Update...

Some nice progress this weekend so far. And thanks again for your help David.

1) The small bump-out on the left of the room was removed. My wife wanted to gain the 1' wider space in the bar area. Basically, I lost some shelves in the wiring closet. I planned to use that as a DVD rack. Fortunately, I found a new location :). WAF does not allow for them in the room unless they are hidden in a drawer, cabinet, etc. I plan to call a plumber this week to get those Washer Hot/Cold lines moved down and stubbed out for the sink. I was thinking of doing it myself but if I ever had a water leak, it would be a BAD thing. Figure a professional would do it right (and hopefully it will never leak).

Before and After Shots
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-OpeningLeft-ReadyDrywall.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-OpeningLeft-BumpoutRemoved.JPG


2) Removed the door. Plastic is on the opening to help keep dust from getting into the house.

Before and After
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-OpeningRight-StudFlush.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-OpeningRight-DoorRemoved.JPG


3) Removed drywall on left, rear and right walls. I also added the electrical for lighting and outlets at and below counter level. Here is a shot of the rear wall.

Before and After
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-EyebrowTopFrame.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-DrywallRemoved.JPG


4) David and I removed all the tile today. Talk about a messy job. Dust everywhere. BUT -- what a tension reliever. Nothing better than smashing something with your hands!

Here is David smashing some tile
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-BreakingTile.jpg


Here is the completed job. We still need to finish removing the gray skim coat. It's a tedious process and we just ran out of gas and did not get it done tonight.

Left Side
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-FloorAlmostDone1.JPG

Right Side
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/WB-FloorAlmostDone2.JPG


More soon.

FYI Steve, many local sheet-metal shops will have a laser cutter these days.
Thanks for the idea Scott. I may check that out. That sure would make things a bit easier. I also may take the suggestion from Mark and ask the guy if I could "borrow" his jig.

BTW -- your custom mount looks great. Nice job!

Steve,

Nice job on the demo this weekend! I'm glad I didn't have to tear anything out (though it definitely has a cool factor to be able to tell people you cut through a wall and tore things out to make way for your bar :) ).

I know what you mean about running out of gas on the things that just take time and back breaking labor. Keep up the good work, can't wait to see what your bar will look like.

Mike

PS. What does WAF stand for?

Wife Acceptance Factor

Must have for any respectable theater...unless your single :D

Robert

LOL!

Yeah, that's a definite must :D

Mike

Nice job on the demo this weekend! I'm glad I didn't have to tear anything out (though it definitely has a cool factor to be able to tell people you cut through a wall and tore things out to make way for your bar :) ).

I know what you mean about running out of gas on the things that just take time and back breaking labor. Keep up the good work, can't wait to see what your bar will look like.What Mike said! :D :D Keep up the good work, Steve!!

Steve - just caught up on your thread. Great work on the Star Ceiling - can't wait to see the end result. (hint, hint) :D

Steve, I have a quick question.

Are you treating your screen wall with linacoustic? Is there a reason to with all that wood? As you know my screen wall will be similar in that it will have a lot of wood.

BTW I am finally getting serious about my build out. Check out my site link to see progress. I am getting excited about it.


Randy

Wife Acceptance Factor

Must have for any respectable theater...unless your single :D

Robert LOL!

Yeah, that's a definite must :D

Mike
Yep - does make for a happier marriage. The new Wet Bar area is my wife's baby. She is very excited about this room. It will be pretty modern looking. I don't want to share too much about it as we have not finalized the look yet.

accts4mjs/Mike, I may be giving you a run for your money on the "art deco" look ;)

Steve - just caught up on your thread. Great work on the Star Ceiling - can't wait to see the end result. (hint, hint) :D
I've been working on the can lights in the star frame over the past few eves. I am just about done and will share pics soon. I had one can light left last night that just wouldn't fit. After messing with it for about 45min, I finally figured it out. Unfortunately, in my haste, I pinched some Romex and will need to replace a few wires (doh!).

I decided to call it a night (it was midnight anyway). I'll get it fixed this eve.

I plan to order the fiber soon. I'm still working on the star pattern and want to be sure I have enough fiber. I should begin the star ceiling by the end of next week.

Steve, make sure you order a little extra fiber than you think you need (2' per run). I ran out and had to order 25' more. I stupidly did not account for corners, etc.

Drew

Steve, I have a quick question.

Are you treating your screen wall with linacoustic? Is there a reason to with all that wood? As you know my screen wall will be similar in that it will have a lot of wood.

BTW I am finally getting serious about my build out. Check out my site link to see progress. I am getting excited about it.


Randy
Randy,

I checked out your construction pics. You put most everyone's woodworking skills to shame. You have some nice tools too! Your front looks very similar to my original design -- I like it. Make sure you start a construction thread so you can share your joys and frustrations with the rest of us!
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album9/Large/eCenter_Rendering.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album9/Large/eCenter_Skeleton.jpg


As far as the insulation, my room will have a combination of different kinds. Typically the thicker and denser the material, the better it does at absorbing low frequencies. The thick cotton you see in the corners of the room will be for bass traps. I also plan to put a combination of 2" and 3" material in the wall panels throughout the room. The star ceiling will also act as a huge bass trap and high/mid frequency absorber.

The wood is definitely a reflective surface and I will just need to deal with that. By the look of your front wall, the large speaker openings will do well because you can put some absorbtion material inside. In the design above, I was planning to recess my screen but keep it 2"-3" away from the front wall. I would then fill that gap with absorbtion material to help deaden the front wall.
http://randylowe.com/mediaroom/Media%20Room/slides/htscreen1.jpg http://randylowe.com/mediaroom/Construction/slides/Wall%20parts.jpg


I'm sure Bryan/bpape can help you get your room just right. I recommend you contact him directly and start a dialog. He will be able to give you some guidance on your room. He's helped a number of AVSers and all have been very happy with the results of their room.

Steve, make sure you order a little extra fiber than you think you need (2' per run). I ran out and had to order 25' more. I stupidly did not account for corners, etc.

Drew
Drew,

Noted and planned! I read your post a few days back and will benefit from your "unfortunate" experience ;)

accts4mjs/Mike, I may be giving you a run for your money on the "art deco" look ;)

Do tell?! I'm all for more deco, and of course I love a good competition ;)

Are we talking about the bar itself or the whole room?

Mike

Do tell?! I'm all for more deco, and of course I love a good competition ;)

Are we talking about the bar itself or the whole room?

Mike
This is just for the bar area. The HT already has a modern look/feel but the bar will be a little more modern/deco.

The lower cabinets will have sharp clean surfaces and edges, modern hardware and painted with a faux finish (vs. stained) -- a real understated look. Instead of upper cabinets, we will have (3) 1.5" thick shelves (each the length of the lower cabinet) divided up into (3) sections with embedded puck lights. We saw some shelves like this on one of HGTV Home Shows (Divine Design w/ Candice Olson (http://www.divinedesign.tv/)) and really liked them. We love to watch shows like that because they give us great ideas.

Since I'm making it myself, the sky's the limit on the look. I just hope she gets that figured out before I get started :p However, I do know that the HT takes priority over the cabinet build. I negotiated that deal before I started!

I checked out your construction pics. You put most everyone's woodworking skills to shame.
Aw Shucks! :o


By the look of your front wall, the large speaker openings will do well because you can put some absorbtion material inside.

Noted. I was planning on using Dynamat which was recommended by someone at work who has experience in studio sound. Any other recommendation? I thought I had seen rockwool used as well somewhere.



In the design above, I was planning to recess my screen but keep it 2"-3" away from the front wall. I would then fill that gap with absorbtion material to help deaden the front wall.

My screen is not acoustically transparent. I am not sure what I would benefit from by filling the gap behind it. Is that to prevent a resonate effect?



I'm sure Bryan/bpape can help you get your room just right. I recommend you contact him directly and start a dialog. He will be able to give you some guidance on your room. He's helped a number of AVSers and all have been very happy with the results of their room.
Noted. I will see what they have to offer.


I really have not considered doing fabric panels in the room, but I am open to it if it will dramatically increase my sound stage.

Randy

FYI, for guys looking for the Art-Deco look, make sure you contact Art Sonneborn as he had some pics of some stuff he did in his previous theater design that he made of things like foam and the foam-board, so that it was cheap, lightweight and paintable. He may still have pics somewhere.

Actually, here is one pic that doesn't show much detail, but I beleive these gold peices are foam core board:
http://www.artsonneborn.com//html/previous_theater_8.html

Star Ceiling Update…

Well on the 234th day there was LIGHT. I got the cans and trims installed in the star ceiling frame. I am very happy with the results.

Here is a pic of the wiring before termination. There are a total of 4 different light circuits. Each circuit terminates to a whip with a standard plug on the end. This whip will then plug into a switched/dimmed outlet on the ceiling. All lighting will be controlled by Insteon dimmers located in the equipment closet. I'll have the "main" multi-button dimmer at the theater entrance.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-Wired.JPG


Lights installed. Since I still have some misc terminations to do around the room, I was not able to turn on the “real” circuit. However, with my design, I was able to easily use an extension cord to plug them in for a test. If you look carefully, you will see (2) multi-outlets where the light whips will plug-in. I also stuffed the voids inside the frame with fluffy insulation but made sure to stay at least 4" away from any of the light cans. That center cup is where the original room light was installed. I plan to snake my star fibers in through that hole.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SC-LightsInstalled.JPG


A few misc items….
My SMX AT screen material arrived a few days ago (thanks Ruben). Ruben was holding my material until I was ready for delivery. The box is really long -- it just barely fit in my car through the trunk pass-thru. Just to give you some perspective, the change in wall color from red to blue is at about 7’11”. I plan to build a DIY 9.5' wide 2.35:1 screen from this material.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SMX-Box.JPG


If you were wondering WHERE in the world I put all the drywall and debris from the Wet Bar demolition... it lives in (11) lawn-size trash bags along the side of my house. The city will pick it up on Aug 30th (the next scheduled bulk trash pickup day) .

BTW, the stone you see on the right is for a project that has been back burnered until the HT is completed. Just beyond the top of the pic, I have some lattice in front of our bathroom window. I wanted to plant some nice shrubs, vines and possibly a Japanese Maple. The stone will be used to outline the area and give it some nice curb appeal.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/DrywallTrash.JPG

Looking sweet Steve. The ceiling is going to be incredible. Hell, the whole theater is going to be incredible. I think more people need to get more creative with their ceilings like this. You got me thinking of some other ideas now :D

Glad to hear your SmX arrive fine. The box looks intact. I guess It took a few tries to figure out how to safely ship this. Your gonna love it once it's up!

Ruben

Thanks for the idea Scott. I may check that out. That sure would make things a bit easier. I also may take the suggestion from Mark and ask the guy if I could "borrow" his jig.

BTW -- your custom mount looks great. Nice job!

Room looks good so far. How about just asking the guy for the drawing they used to make his templates? You could make your own out of wood. After all, if you are using it as a guide for a router, then the router shouldn't damage the template. Or give the drawing to the sheetmetal shop. That might save you some cost of having new ones cut if they already have a detailed drawing to use. Then of course, you could share the drawing with all of us. ;)

Room looks good so far. How about just asking the guy for the drawing they used to make his templates? You could make your own out of wood. After all, if you are using it as a guide for a router, then the router shouldn't damage the template. Or give the drawing to the sheetmetal shop. That might save you some cost of having new ones cut if they already have a detailed drawing to use. Then of course, you could share the drawing with all of us. ;)

All you need is a vector file of the drawing and convert it to an autocad file and anyone with a CNC can cut this precisely off the drawing for a few bucks. If you need help with it, get me a drawing and I can have a friend of mine out here laser cut all the peices you need for the speakers for a few bucks using baltic birch or whatever people are using these days. It will save some labor and every piece will be precise.

Ruben

http://randylowe.com/mediaroom/Construction/slides/Wall%20parts.jpg


Steve,

I see you have a Grizzly tablesaw (G1023 I believe). How do you like it? I have beeen seriously contemplating a Grizzly.

Andy

Steve,

I see you have a Grizzly tablesaw (G1023 I believe). How do you like it? I have beeen seriously contemplating a Grizzly.

Andy
Andy,

That is not mine. It is owned by rlowe. The items pictured is his garage and his front cabinets -- sorry. However, that IS a nice table saw. I have one like that on my wish list.

Andy,

That is not mine. It is owned by rlowe. The items pictured is his garage and his front cabinets -- sorry. However, that IS a nice table saw. I have one like that on my wish list.

Oops, I'll check with him.

Looking sweet Steve. The ceiling is going to be incredible. Hell, the whole theater is going to be incredible. I think more people need to get more creative with their ceilings like this. You got me thinking of some other ideas now :D

Glad to hear your SmX arrive fine. The box looks intact. I guess It took a few tries to figure out how to safely ship this. Your gonna love it once it's up!

Ruben
Thanks Ruben. Damn, I though you might be done making additions to your HT ;)

I cannot wait to see the SMX material in action either. I need to make a decision on my projector and get it ordered. It's between the Infocus IN76, Panny 900U and a used Optima H79.

Room looks good so far. How about just asking the guy for the drawing they used to make his templates? You could make your own out of wood. After all, if you are using it as a guide for a router, then the router shouldn't damage the template. Or give the drawing to the sheetmetal shop. That might save you some cost of having new ones cut if they already have a detailed drawing to use. Then of course, you could share the drawing with all of us. ;) Actually, I have a 3/4" MDF template on the way from him (thanks Mike). He is also going to email me a PDF file that can be converted to CAD for printing. Once I get it (and with his permission), I'll put a link to it in this thread so others can download it.


All you need is a vector file of the drawing and convert it to an autocad file and anyone with a CNC can cut this precisely off the drawing for a few bucks. If you need help with it, get me a drawing and I can have a friend of mine out here laser cut all the peices you need for the speakers for a few bucks using baltic birch or whatever people are using these days. It will save some labor and every piece will be precise.

Ruben Thanks for the kind offer Ruben. There are a few places here in town that can make them if I need it. The 3/4" MDF version should work out fine. My plan is to dupe it as soon as I get it and put the original away for safe-keeping.

Oops, I'll check with him.

Hi Andy,

I've had a G1023SL with the 7' rails and extension table for about three years now and could not be more satisfied.
I can't compare this saw with my dad's Powermatic PM66, but for the money it's a great buy. I will not get rid of it any time soon.

I read a thread in the rec.woodworking group where a tool rep for a big name company here in the U.S. visited the manufacturing plant in China and said that basically the heavy machinery like tablesaws, jointers, planers, etc... spilt off the end of the assmebly line to get painted in different colors, depending on the brand.

Aw Shucks! :o

Noted. I was planning on using Dynamat which was recommended by someone at work who has experience in studio sound. Any other recommendation? I thought I had seen rockwool used as well somewhere.


My screen is not acoustically transparent. I am not sure what I would benefit from by filling the gap behind it. Is that to prevent a resonate effect?

Noted. I will see what they have to offer.

I really have not considered doing fabric panels in the room, but I am open to it if it will dramatically increase my sound stage.

Randy
Randy,

bpape/Bryan will be able to answer all those questions for you in a lot more detail than I can. I will tell you that the Dynomat will help but IMO it will not be near enough for your room. You'll need some nice bass traps in the front corners and some absorbtion at your 1st reflections points (the place on the side walls the sound hits first before it reaches the seating area). Even if you are not going with an AT screen, it's surface is mainly reflective for upper mids and highs -- bass will just pass right through it as if it was not there. The common practice for any screen type (assuming it is not made of a solid material like plywood) is to put absorbtion material behind it to help focus the sound to the screen.

You can read all about acoustical treatments in the THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=255432) main thread (get ready, it's a long one).

Good luck on your theater build.

FYI, for guys looking for the Art-Deco look, make sure you contact Art Sonneborn as he had some pics of some stuff he did in his previous theater design that he made of things like foam and the foam-board, so that it was cheap, lightweight and paintable. He may still have pics somewhere.

Actually, here is one pic that doesn't show much detail, but I beleive these gold peices are foam core board:
http://www.artsonneborn.com//html/previous_theater_8.html
Thanks Scott. I'm not sure we'll go "that" art-deco. We're probably leaning more toward a modern look the more I think about it. However, things could change (as they have in the past). I'll keep everyone in the loop as things solidify. It should be a fun build whatever we do.

And NOW that I know Ivan has a kick-a$$ table saw, I'm cutting my wood at his house :D I don't think my $200 Ryobi will cut it anymore. :rolleyes:

And NOW that I know Ivan has a kick-a$$ table saw, I'm cutting my wood at his house :D I don't think my $200 Ryobi will cut it anymore. :rolleyes:

It's a long haul due south, and your welcome to use it. It has low millage, I only use it from fall through spring. :D

Steve,

The ceiling is looking good! Can't wait to see you get the stars going. A unique idea you have with that "hanging sky"

Star Ceiling Update…

A few misc items….
My SMX AT screen material arrived a few days ago (thanks Ruben). Ruben was holding my material until I was ready for delivery. The box is really long -- it just barely fit in my car through the trunk pass-thru. Just to give you some perspective, the change in wall color from red to blue is at about 7’11”. I plan to build a DIY 9.5' wide 2.35:1 screen from this material.

Did you say RED?????? :eek:

:D

FYI, for guys looking for the Art-Deco look, make sure you contact Art Sonneborn as he had some pics of some stuff he did in his previous theater design that he made of things like foam and the foam-board, so that it was cheap, lightweight and paintable. He may still have pics somewhere.

Actually, here is one pic that doesn't show much detail, but I beleive these gold peices are foam core board:
http://www.artsonneborn.com//html/previous_theater_8.html

Wow, that was most impressive (I went through all the photos). I can see why he needed to save money using foam -- WHEN HE'S GOT TWO PROJECTORS HANGING FROM HIS CEILING!! Sheesh ;)

Thanks for the photos -- I think my favorite part was the ticket booth in the hallway.

Mike

Wow, that was most impressive (I went through all the photos). I can see why he needed to save money using foam -- WHEN HE'S GOT TWO PROJECTORS HANGING FROM HIS CEILING!! Sheesh ;)

Those were pictures of his OLD theater. It was redone and he now has a new theater.

Did you say RED?????? :eek:

:D
I guess you were the only one that noticed the change. But.. you have been in the actual room and seen it in person :D Remember we're mostly guys here, so we can only focus on one thing at a time ;)

The wife and I were not excited about the milk-chocolate brown on the walls (blended in too much with the columns) so we went with a Black Cherry red. We're very happy (aka, the wife is VERY happy LOL!) and it only took an afternoon to put on (2) coats. Now the columns POP.

It's a long haul due south, and your welcome to use it. It has low millage, I only use it from fall through spring. :D
Thanks Ivan. We'll see how it goes. I'm taking off tomorrow to pickup the crown and base molding. I'll get them stained this weekend and hopefully get started on the installation Sun/Mon. I'm also planning to get the columns attached with french cleats (lower) and "L" brackets (upper).

Steve,

The ceiling is looking good! Can't wait to see you get the stars going. A unique idea you have with that "hanging sky"
Thanks. I hope it looks even better once I get the stars installed.

I saw your HT chairs -- awesome!

Mini Update..

I just ordered the crown and base molding for the room. I'm planning to borrow a friends truck and pick it up tomorrow morning.


So what's on for tomorrow.. (I'm talking the day off):
1) Pick-up the base and crown

2)) Route the groove in the base molding like this. I'll need to purchase a 1/4" straight bit for this.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Base Molding.JPG


3) Get (2) coats of stain applied to the base and crown

4) Cut the opening in the rear columns for the rear surrounds

5) Attach all columns to the walls and terminate any electrical connections in the columns


Saturday:
1) Apply 3-coats of clear to the base and crown

2) Add an angled backer board along the top of the wall so I can attach the crown. I plan to rip down some 2x4s.

3) Build the frame for the (2) 4'x5' star grids. Fiber stars are later since I have not placed the order yet. Orion is in the Eastern sky tomorrow (http://www.earthsky.org/skywatching/tonightssky_printable.php?date=20060817) before sunrise. I want to see how big it looks in the sky so I can match that "size" in my star ceiling. Hopefully it will be high enough above the horizon for me to see. Once I know the size, I can firm up my star design and know how many fibers I need to purchase.

4) Begin building my DIY speakers. I plan to start with the surrounds since I'm still waiting for the curved template for the LCRs from the other guy that built them. I plan to build the curved version of the LCRs (example pictured below). Its more work but they look very nice IMO. Don't worry.. I'll have lots of pics detailing the build process :)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-OnyxLook.jpg


Sunday:

1) Hopefully everything I wanted to do above is done and I can start apply the base and crown

2) Maybe get back to the wet bar and move (1) ceiling joists and add another to accommodate the (2) can lights in the ceiling.


With all that said, let's see how much I REALLY get done. Wish me luck!

With all that said, let's see how much I REALLY get done. Wish me luck!Good luck, Steve!!
(Don't overdo it and exhaust yourself.)

What no progress on Star Ceiling this weekend :D

Mini Update..

I just ordered the crown and base molding for the room. I'm planning to borrow a friends truck and pick it up tomorrow morning.


So what's on for tomorrow.. (I'm talking the day off):
1) Pick-up the base and crown

2)) Route the groove in the base molding like this. I'll need to purchase a 1/4" straight bit for this.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Base Molding.JPG



Make sure you buy a couple of 1/4" upcut spiral bit (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5298) . It heats up less than a straight cut bit. Is the base molding solid maple also ?
Maple is very hard and can snap those small bit in seconds. Make sure you do small depth passes.
I'd adjust each pass a 1/16" and do a few of passes untli you've reached the desired depth. If you're using a router table, feed the maple slowly so you don't overheat the bit.
Same goes for a router and edge guide. Feed the router slowly. Practice on a scrap.

Now the 64K question. Why didn't you order the molding with the groove on it already. :D

Better get a move on, I'm catching up quick....

Gary

Wow Steve, you have been pretty busy there. Nice work so far. I will really be interested in those speakers. good thing your close so I can listen to them when your done. I might have to talk you into making another set :D :D

Are you going to inlay some aluminum into that trim groove like you did the columns?


Ronnie

I was wondering why he couldn't just make that groove with an 80-tooth carbide blade on his table saw?

I was wondering why he couldn't just make that groove with an 80-tooth carbide blade on his table saw?

Now, someone's thinking...

Or a very small dado blade. That would be much easier than the router.

I was thinking the same thing. Worst case (without a dado), run all the stock through one pass, readjust the fence, repeat as needed.

Tom

I was thinking the same thing. Worst case (without a dado), run all the stock through one pass, readjust the fence, repeat as needed. Bingo.

I second the dado blade.

Ronnie

I was wondering why he couldn't just make that groove with an 80-tooth carbide blade on his table saw?

DuH! I'm very fond of my router table :D

An 80 tooth carbide blade is for fine crosscutting. The groove he's cutting is a "ripping" cut. A dado blade will work much better than my suggested spiral bit.

A cheaper alternative to the dado blade would be a flat tooth ripping blade with 24 tooth or so. Like this one:

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/13120-01-500.jpg

If you go this route, make sure you use a feather board to keep the stock tight against the fence.

Ivan

;) I knew he'd be able to explain it to a relative woodworking noob like me.

"All we need is a ten and a fiver,
a car and a key, and a sober driver,
b-double-e-double-r-u-n, beerrun....."

If you go this route, make sure you use a feather board to keep the stock tight against the fence.
Ivan

Also, you want to apply down pressure with your paddles. This will ensure the board does not ride up the blade and give you an inconsistent depth.

Use the TS it is much easier for this cut. It will lessen the chance of screwing up you molding.

Randy

Also, you want to apply down pressure with your paddles. This will ensure the board does not ride up the blade and give you an inconsistent depth.

Use the TS it is much easier for this cut. It will lessen the chance of screwing up you molding.

Randy

Don't forget that most dado blades will leave what I like to call the "Batman" profile (the scoring blades poke up ever so slightly more than the raking blades and leave little bat ears at the edges of the groove). Of course most people won't notice, but then you're building a theater, you're interested in details, and like most of us -- it'll bother you ;)

Another suggestion (and it's just that) is to use a 1/4" slot cutter and run the board vertically across your router table. I have one and it's sweet for stuff like this.

Mike

Another suggestion (and it's just that) is to use a 1/4" slot cutter and run the board vertically across your router table. I have one and it's sweet for stuff like this.

Mike

Assuming he has a router table.. ;) I know he's doing fine. Look at his work so far ! :eek:

I know he's doing fine. Look at his work so far ! :eek:


LOL! You're not kidding -- it's amazing :D

LOL! You're not kidding -- it's amazing :D

I know. Once the HT bug hits us all we become some of the best "architects", "electrical engineers", interior designers", etc...

That's what amazes me about human nature.

Andy,

That is not mine. It is owned by rlowe. The items pictured is his garage and his front cabinets -- sorry. However, that IS a nice table saw. I have one like that on my wish list.

Yeah add me to the list of people who keep putting off a nice cabinet saw. I swear by the time I finally get one I'll have no more projects! :mad:

Weekend Update…

Well, I got a bunch done but not quite as much as I had wanted. We had family activites both Friday and Saturday eve so that time was lost. This is what I was able to complete:


All columns are now installed permanently on the wall.

Here is one of the columns filled with insulation (1 layer of R19 and 1 layer of R13 – kraft paper removed on both per bpape)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Column-Insulation.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Column-InsulationComplete.JPG

Using Ronnie’s stitching program, here is a panoramic pic of the left rear side of the room. I was even able to get in the star frame in the pic.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/RoomRender1.jpg


Onto the trim.. I was able to route the grooves in the trim, cut the 45 deg cuts on the crown, sand and get the 1st coat of stain on everything.

The process of routing the groove was quite easy but did take some patience. Suggestions were made earlier to use a dado blade or multiple passes on the table saw but I opted to use my standard ¼” straight router bit. This was soft maple and I was only going down ¼”. And NO broken bits :)

I made a special JIG out of ¼” oak ply and a scrap piece of ¾” MDF. It was used to get the perfect distance from the edge of the board (exactly 1”) for the groove
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Trim-Jig1.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Trim-Jig2.JPG

One thing that was important was to keep a fair amount of pressure on the jig to keep the router against the edge of the board. The issue I ran into was the saw horses kept sliding around or tilting up. Luckily I figured this out before I started routing. I ended up putting a scrap piece of ½” OSB on the floor and screwed the saw horse legs to the board with simple drywall screws. Then, I stood on the board as I routed the goove. Worked out perfectly. I will say my wrists were worn out at the end with all the pressure I had to exert on the router to keep it tight against the board. Yes, the dado blade might have been easier but my table saw is small and I was worried I would have gotten off track to easily. The same holds true for a router table. I have one but it is old and very small.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Trim1.JPG

Here are a couple action shots of the process. I had to route the groove along the entire length of the 10’ board. After that I would go over it (2) more times (once each way) to clean up the burrs in the goove.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Trim-Groove1.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Trim-Groove2.JPG

And finally, all the trim completed. Actually I have one more base board to do. One of the 1x6 Maple boards I bought was not up to snuff and I plan to exchange it on Monday for another one.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Trim-RoutingComplete.JPG

Onto the staining. Here are some pics of the 1st coat of stain. It looks a lot darker in the pic. It really needs 1 or 2 more coats of stain. I'll get the 2nd coat applied tomorrow eve

Crown – for the crown since I went with a simple flat design, I bought a 4x8 sheet of Maple veneered MDF. Since the edges will be hidden by the 45deg cuts I put in the top and bottom, this was a less expensive alternative over solid stock 1x6” Maple boards. My friend Tom helped me rip the sheet into (9) 5” wide planks (Thanks Tom!). This morning I added the 45deg edges to each side so that would sit up against the wall at an angle.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Trim-CrownStain.JPG

Base with the goove and 1/4" rounded-over top edge.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Trim-BaseStain.JPG

Guess that’s about it. More soon.

Guess that’s about it. More soon.

Go to sleep...you deserve it! :D

Those look great Steve. Nice job!

Mike

PS. So what's the insulation in your columns for. I haven't put mine up yet but was wondering if I should add something behind them (the insulation for example). It would be easy enough and cheap enough to do. Thanks!

Yeah, Steve, nice work. It's really coming together nicely.

Bud

Guess that’s about it. More soon.That's quite a bit of hard work! I'll bet your arms are tired from all the routing. Great ideas on building a router jig and making the crown molding, too. Hope you got a really good night's sleep after all that. :)

Looking good Steve. You're going to have a new career as a woodworker pretty quick. Those speaker cabinets will be fun though.

Bryan

I noticed your burned router bit, takes a lot of routing to do what you did! Next time try an Upspiral bit, they seem to cut better and last longer since they have more cutting surface area and it takes much more to smoke them. They work and look like a drill bit and pull all the shavings up and out of the cut reducing friction. You will probably go through 1 upspiral bit to every 5 straight bit on hardwood and they cost the same amount

Good luck, Steve!!
(Don't overdo it and exhaust yourself.) It was a tough weekend. The wife is talking out of both sides of her mouth lately. She wants me to get it done but also wants me to send more time with the kids (which is a good thing too). Unfortunately, there is only so much you can get done after they go to bed before you fall asleep at the office :) She got over it once she saw how much I got done. I plan to do more work this week. I really want to get the crown and base installed.

What no progress on Star Ceiling this weekend :D
That is coming soon. I was actually going to pick up 2" insulation I need for the room (and star ceiling) on Friday while I had my friends truck. I found out the place I planned to get the stuff is over an hour away. I decided to do more work on the room instead.

I really do need to get the star ceiling done so I can move the seating in the room -- so it is definitely on the short list

Make sure you buy a couple of 1/4" upcut spiral bit (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5298) . It heats up less than a straight cut bit. Is the base molding solid maple also ?
Maple is very hard and can snap those small bit in seconds. Make sure you do small depth passes.
I'd adjust each pass a 1/16" and do a few of passes untli you've reached the desired depth. If you're using a router table, feed the maple slowly so you don't overheat the bit.
Same goes for a router and edge guide. Feed the router slowly. Practice on a scrap.

Now the 64K question. Why didn't you order the molding with the groove on it already. :D I noticed your burned router bit, takes a lot of routing to do what you did! Next time try an Upspiral bit, they seem to cut better and last longer since they have more cutting surface area and it takes much more to smoke them. They work and look like a drill bit and pull all the shavings up and out of the cut reducing friction. You will probably go through 1 upspiral bit to every 5 straight bit on hardwood and they cost the same amount
Thanks for the suggestion guys. It was one of those "I'm here at HD, they don't have the spiral bit, so I bought what they had". In the end, the $14 bit did the job and if it's ruined, I can deal with it. It never smoked while I was goov'n but I'm sure that sucker got mighty hot. I tried to let it cool between boards, though. At 6:30am on Sunday when I started, I was ready to get it done and I used what I had. I'm sure you guys have been there before.

Better get a move on, I'm catching up quick....

Gary
Yep -- trying to keep moving as fast as I can. I not quite at the point of living on coffee yet -- so we're good to go. Keep up the great work on your HT too!

Wow Steve, you have been pretty busy there. Nice work so far. I will really be interested in those speakers. good thing your close so I can listen to them when your done. I might have to talk you into making another set :D :D

Are you going to inlay some aluminum into that trim groove like you did the columns?


Ronnie
Let's see how well I do on the 1st set. Hopefully they'll get the Ronnie approval :)

No inlay in the base molding. Believe me, the thought crossed my mind. I had the "5 min" conversation with the wife a while back and we decided to go with the "clean look". If anything, it saved me a few $.

Assuming he has a router table.. ;) I know he's doing fine. Look at his work so far ! :eek: LOL! You're not kidding -- it's amazing :D
Thanks guys for the vote of confidence. It is always nice to hear people say they like the stuff you do. Now, if I could only get this thing done!

I know. Once the HT bug hits us all we become some of the best "architects", "electrical engineers", interior designers", etc...

That's what amazes me about human nature.
So true --- where there is a will, there is a way!

Funny thing happened when I was staining the columns a while back. One of my neighbors (whom I had never met) walked up to the garage and asked if I was a cabinet maker. He needed some cabinets custom built for his family room. I told him what I was doing and how this was the largest scale build I've ever taken on myself. He was amazed and invited himself to tour my HT once completed. Guess I need to start charging admission :D

It was a tough weekend. The wife is talking out of both sides of her mouth lately. She wants me to get it done but also wants me to send more time with the kids (which is a good thing too). Unfortunately, there is only so much you can get done after they go to bed before you fall asleep at the office :) She got over it once she saw how much I got done. I plan to do more work this week.

Oh, ho, ho. Yeah, just went through that majorly in my house. Fortunately I had a weekend get away planned for her birthday and that saved me. I definitely suggest taking a break like that with your wife if you can (no children -- that's what's got her worked up the most, right? ;) ). Plus it helped me put things into perspective. I'm taking things a little bit slower now. Who cares if I'm done a month later than I originally planned (oh there are whiners that have been asking about the progress but since they're not doing the work you know how I feel about that :p ).

Happy wife = happy family = theater not burned down :D

Mike

Those look great Steve. Nice job!

Mike

PS. So what's the insulation in your columns for. I haven't put mine up yet but was wondering if I should add something behind them (the insulation for example). It would be easy enough and cheap enough to do. Thanks!
From what I've read and been told, you want to fill them so they do not resonate like a drum in the room. It's cheap insurance and did not take long to do. However, my arms are still a bit itchy.

Go to sleep...you deserve it! :D That's quite a bit of hard work! I'll bet your arms are tired from all the routing. Great ideas on building a router jig and making the crown molding, too. Hope you got a really good night's sleep after all that. :)
I slept like a baby last night. I actually was not as tired as I thought. I've scheduled myself for another full week (8PM-11PM). Let's see how much I can get done.

This is so very true. All things in balance.

Looking good Steve. You're going to have a new career as a woodworker pretty quick. Those speaker cabinets will be fun though.

Bryan
Yes, I am looking forward to building those speakers. I'll plan to get those done sooner than later.

Base/Crown, Star Ceiling and Speakers are next on the list.

Yeah, Steve, nice work. It's really coming together nicely.

Bud
Thanks Bud. Just trying to keep up with the "Bud Standard" :p

Oh, ho, ho. Yeah, just went through that majorly in my house. Fortunately I had a weekend get away planned for her birthday and that saved me. I definitely suggest taking a break like that with your wife if you can (no children -- that's what's got her worked up the most, right? ;) ). Plus it helped me put things into perspective. I'm taking things a little bit slower now. Who cares if I'm done a month later than I originally planned (oh there are whiners that have been asking about the progress but since they're not doing the work you know how I feel about that :p ).

Happy wife = happy family = theater not burned down :D

Mike
I think our wives would get along quite well! I know about the speed issue but I've got a drop-dead deadline to meet -- Texas vs. OU game. I think it is sometime in October (wife went to OU). I know I'll be done by then but just have to keep that date in mind.

This is so very true. All things in balance.
It is hard to ride both sides of the fence for me sometimes. I get my mind set in one direction and it's difficult to pull myself away. The wife helps me remember what is most important (and NO, it is not the HT as I had thought :D)

I'm late to this party, having just now read/scrolled my way through this awesome thread... Amazing job SWithey! :eek:

I think our wives would get along quite well! I know about the speed issue but I've got a drop-dead deadline to meet -- Texas vs. OU game. I think it is sometime in October (wife went to OU). I know I'll be done by then but just have to keep that date in mind.

Hah! You're not kidding. I agree with your other comment that they keep us pretty well grounded and focused on what is important (not usually what we focus on ;) ).

Funny about OU. I was reading your post and wondering which side you guys would be on. Red River shootout -- wouldn't miss it :D I grew up (well 6 years, Jr High and High School -- army brat) in Oklahoma and I love OU football!! Go Sooners!

Mike

Happy wife = happy family = theater not burned down :D
If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. ;)

If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. ;)

So you know my wife? ;)