Normal insulation does nothing ( not sure if you mistaking fiberfill for normal insulation or not but Fiber fill is there to increase the volume of the cabinet is all) I would use felt regardless of MDF or Baltic birch because of resonating and standing waves. It wont be $200 in performance, it will be more like going from a 2K set of speakers sound up to 20K speaker sound so I guess its an 18K performance product.

Its probably one of the biggest noticable thngs you can do other than having superb crossover work done

You will crap a loaf the size of the whopping my Huskers are going to put on your Longhorns here in acouple weeks when you hear them with felt inside. Put on some good recorded music like some well recorded Jazz or some singers and standards stuff and be prepared to hear things like never before. Rock n Roll wont be very pleasant because these will bring out bad recordings unless its well recorded like Pink Floyd or someone

Normal insulation does nothing ( not sure if you mistaking fiberfill for normal insulation or not but Fiber fill is there to increase the volume of the cabinet is all) I would use felt regardless of MDF or Baltic birch because of resonating and standing waves. It wont be $200 in performance, it will be more like going from a 2K set of speakers sound up to 20K speaker sound so I guess its an 18K performance product.
Yes, I meant a fiberfill product. Hmm, you are tempting me. You know bpape will be all over this if I do it. It might even get him to make a house-call to big "D" to hear them for himself. I'd love to hear his comments on these compared to his high-end DynAudio floorstanders.

A great compromise and easy to do. Thanks for the idea!

Steve,

Sorry to drum up old topics, but now that you've watched some movies how do you feel about going 2.35:1?

I guess I'm still confused on how you make the IN76 throw a 235 image. Are you using a lens? Or maybe I don't understand how a scaler works. I get the scaling like Mark is saying, but when that image hits the projector, doesn't the projector add black bars to the top/bottom (because the projector is natively 16/9)? Or don't you care because the black bars are outside your screen and eaten by the surrounding "blackness"?

Sorry for all the questions. But I'm thinking I'd like to go CH 2.35 AR, but I'm not sure I want to spend the money on a lens.

>>>EDIT: It's clearer now because it looks like in your PJ picture there's a lens on it. What kind of lens is it?

Thanks,

Ed

Steve,

Sorry to drum up old topics, but now that you've watched some movies how do you feel about going 2.35:1?

I guess I'm still confused on how you make the IN76 throw a 235 image. Are you using a lens? Or maybe I don't understand how a scaler works. I get the scaling like Mark is saying, but when that image hits the projector, doesn't the projector add black bars to the top/bottom (because the projector is natively 16/9)? Or don't you care because the black bars are outside your screen and eaten by the surrounding "blackness"?

Sorry for all the questions. But I'm thinking I'd like to go CH 2.35 AR, but I'm not sure I want to spend the money on a lens.

>>>EDIT: It's clearer now because it looks like in your PJ picture there's a lens on it. What kind of lens is it?

Thanks,

Ed
I am using the Panamorph U85 (http://www.panamorph.com/).
http://www.panamorph.com/images/Produc1.jpg

I plan to use my HTPC as my scaler, but the projector will do what you want without a scaler too (and not waste "black bar" light outside the screen). You just tell the projector to FILL the screen with the image. The lens then takes that vertically stretched image and squishes it down to the 2.35:1 ratio to fit your screen. If you want to watch 1.78:1 material, you have (2) choices:

1) Move the lens away from the projector and zoom in the image to fit on the 2.35:1 screen. You will have black bars on the sides. Panamorph does offer a motorized lens but the price jumps quite a bit.

2) Keep the lens in place and use your scaler (HTPC in my case) to squeeze the image in from the sides to make it the proper 1.78:1 format. Without the side squeeze, the people on the screen will look short and fat. Side black bars will still exist. This option (when implemented properly) is more WAF friendly because all the changes are just a macro-button on your remote.

Panamorph has a good explanation of this in more detail. You can check it out HERE (http://www.panamorph.com/Ultimate235.html).

Overall, I'm glad I bought the lens and think it was worth the expense. AND.. the theater looks too cool with the wider screen :D

Dammit Steve, you're on the verge of swaying me to making my own speakers. :)

Outstanding work as with everything you've done so far.

Tom

It wont be $200 in performance, it will be more like going from a 2K set of speakers sound up to 20K speaker sound so I guess its an 18K performance product.

Its probably one of the biggest noticable thngs you can do other than having superb crossover work done

You will crap a loaf the size of the whopping my Huskers are going to put on your Longhorns here in acouple weeks when you hear them with felt inside.


Do you have any data to back up these statements or are they a matter of personal opinion ? Or maybe they are like the good ole Nebraska playbook and they were pull right out of your... I'm just kidding :eek: :D

On a serious note, if felt does that kind of performance change then it is worth $68 a yard.

Back to the Huskers...

What's the difference between the Nebraska Cornhuskers and the Taliban?
The Taliban has a running game.

What do the Nebraska Cornhuskers and Billy Graham have in common?
They both can make 70,000 people stand up and yell "Jesus Christ."

How do you keep a Nebraska Cornhusker player out of your yard?
Put up goal posts.

Where do you go in Lincoln in case of a tornado?
Memorial Stadium - they never get a touchdown there.

Why doesn't Omaha have a Div 1A football team?
Because then Lincoln would want one.

What's the difference between the Nebraska Cornhuskers and a dollar bill?
You can still get four quarters out of a dollar bill.

What do you call 47 people sitting around a TV watching the College Championships?
The Nebraska Cornhuskers.


:D :D :D

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1306/utcustomwl9.jpg

I am using the Panamorph U85 (http://www.panamorph.com/).
http://www.panamorph.com/images/Produc1.jpg

I plan to use my HTPC as my scaler, but the projector will do what you want without a scaler too (and not waste "black bar" light outside the screen). You just tell the projector to FILL the screen with the image. The lens then takes that vertically stretched image and squishes it down to the 2.35:1 ratio to fit your screen. If you want to watch 1.78:1 material, you have (2) choices:

1) Move the lens away from the projector and zoom in the image to fit on the 2.35:1 screen. You will have black bars on the sides. Panamorph does offer a motorized lens but the price jumps quite a bit.

2) Keep the lens in place and use your scaler (HTPC in my case) to squeeze the image in from the sides to make it the proper 1.78:1 format. Without the side squeeze, the people on the screen will look short and fat. Side black bars will still exist. This option (when implemented properly) is more WAF friendly because all the changes are just a macro-button on your remote.

Panamorph has a good explanation of this in more detail. You can check it out HERE (http://www.panamorph.com/Ultimate235.html).

Overall, I'm glad I bought the lens and think it was worth the expense. AND.. the theater looks too cool with the wider screen :D

Ohhh. The part I was missing was the "FILL" on the projector side. Sort of like how I tell my 50" Sony to zoom 4x3 material into its 16x9 screen. So the projector scales the 2.35 vertically to 16:9 and then the lens squishes down to 2.35. I hope that's right.

I like option 2 more myself (even w/o the WAF factor). One thing, when watching 1.78 material, what ratio does the scaler scale it too?

Thanks for the panamorph link, it does help. But you helped more.

Ed

So what’s next on the list you ask??
- Finish DIY screen (attach material, make frame and cover with black velvet). Yldesyde/David -- I would love your help on this if you can pull yourself away from your 80hr/wk job ;)
- Redo front wall to accommodate 2.35:1 screen
- Paint all the studs black and add black GOM
- Finish up the HTPC so I can receive HDTV for the game next weekend
- Resume work on the LCRs. These will be fun to build

Where do I sign up? What does your schedule look like? I can't wait to see the room .

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1306/utcustomwl9.jpg
I'll just drape this over the HT screen until the game starts. Ivan, I'll keep a seat warm for you ;) BTW, I'm a neutral party on this but ain't football rivalry fun :D
http://www.rugsculptors.com/images/Field%20Rug%20016b.jpg

Should be an exciting game. Ivan, one of the guys here at the office is a HUGE Buckeye fan and he actually went to the game in Austin a few weeks ago. He was going nuts over the win. My guess is Texas will beat OU (remember they are in their re-building years as my wife says :rolleyes: ). I'm hoping it will be a close game and that it will be broadcast in High-Def (still unknown at this point).

Oh, You mean Super Bowl XLI, starting the Chicago Bears !! :D


DA BEARS!!!!!!!!!!!

Ohhh. The part I was missing was the "FILL" on the projector side. Sort of like how I tell my 50" Sony to zoom 4x3 material into its 16x9 screen. So the projector scales the 2.35 vertically to 16:9 and then the lens squishes down to 2.35. I hope that's right.

I like option 2 more myself (even w/o the WAF factor). One thing, when watching 1.78 material, what ratio does the scaler scale it too?

Thanks for the panamorph link, it does help. But you helped more.

Ed
Glad I could help. I do know Panamorph does "powerbuys" here on AVSForum every once in a while with discounted pricing. You might keep an eye out.

Dammit Steve, you're on the verge of swaying me to making my own speakers. :)

Outstanding work as with everything you've done so far.

Tom
Tom,

You should definitely give it a serious look. I finally got a few minutes to listen to the my small 2-way surrounds (1" tweet w/ 7" woofer) matched with a sub in pure stereo mode. I auditioned Norah Jones and Dire Straights. Both of these have specific songs that can hit that a note that sends needles through my ear drums with the wrong speakers (great test material).

These speakers did not do that to my ears. I would compare their sound to the Paradigm Stuido line or the Totem Rainmakers. They are smooth with some great detail. In fact, they are a bit smoother than the Paradigms (mainly since my speakers use a soft dome tweet and Paradigms use a metal tweet) and about on par with the Totems.

My budget was really stretched with the Paradigms/Totems. The "bang for the buck" speaker right now are the Ascends. However, Ascend did not offer a 3-way floorstander or bi-pole surrounds (which is something I really wanted). Since I was able to build my own, I could design them however I wanted with drivers "I" selected for the perfect sound (at least for me).

Overall -- well worth the time and effort. I cannot wait to listen to the LCR towers. I'm sure I'll be blown away. The crossovers and drivers are sitting in my home office mocking me every time I go into the room to use my computer. I guess I need to get in gear and get those built!

I would compare their sound to the Paradigm Stuido line or the Totem Rainmakers. They are smooth with some great detail. In fact, they are a bit smoother than the Paradigms (mainly since my speakers use a soft dome tweet and Paradigms use a metal tweet) and about on par with the Totems.And these are your surrounds, wait until you hear your LCR. Isnt it fun when your surrounds sound as good as some companys floorstanders? SACD is really neat, I wish they had expanded that library.

So what do you estimate you saved over buying the Paradigms?

Tom

Update…

The front screen wall has been rebuilt to accommodate a larger 2.35:1 9.5’ wide screen. I also painted it black this evening.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/ScreenWall-Black.JPG


I am recessing the screen 10" into to the wall. The recessed cage took a lot of thought and was a real PITA to build. I am VERY happy it is done and am happy with the results. The area is supported by the ceiling (vs. by the floor). I wanted to keep the floor free of clutter.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/ScreenWall-ShadowBox1.JPG


Here is a pic of the screen wall with the screen frame sitting inside. I plan to paint it black tomorrow (I ran out of paint) and with Yldesydes/Davids help wrap that sucker with SMX screen material. I’ll get the actual Fidelio velvet frame built this week as well.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/ScreenWall-DIYFrame.JPG


Tomorrow:

1) Stretch SMX material over the frame
2) Cover front wall with black GOM
3) Cut and install insulation for front bass traps and front wall absorption (if we get the time)

OU vs. Texas game is this next Sunday. With the help from a friend (thanks Tom), I now have a OTA antenna installed in my attic and signal strength is quite good. The HTPC is built and burning in at the office in a uncomfortable cold 65deg computer room. I’ll bring it home Monday and see how well it picks up the digital channels. My HDMI and DVI cables from Blue Jean Cable arrived on Friday and my projector was replaced with a new unit on Thursday -- so I’ve got everything I need for the test.

So what do you estimate you saved over buying the Paradigms?

Tom
If I compare my LCRs to the Studio 100s, side surrounds to the ADP470 and the rears to the 20s, I spent about 1/3 of the Paradigm MSRP.

Picked up my MDF and sheetrock at HD yesterday. Cut most of the wood for the columns with the help of YldeSyde/David. I had to bribe him with lunch and a trip to Wally World :p


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/MDF.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Drywall2.jpg
- 7 Sheets of 3/4" MDF to make all the columns and front Entertainment Center
- 12 Sheets of 1/2" drywall for left ceiling vault and new rear wall area. I'm only doing single-sheet thickness drywall since the rest of the room is only single-sheet. Fortunately, only one wall actually touches living space (the other (3) are exterior walls). On the one "living space" wall, sound will need to penetrate a enclosed drybar area and an equipment closet (all walls insulated) before reaching another insulated living space wall. It's not perfect but will be fine for my needs.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Tablesaw_Setup1.jpg
Because these sheets of MDF are 8' long, we had to come up with a way to support the wood for the cut. A few saw horses and some other helper supports did the trick.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Cutting.jpg
The cutting process is relatively straight forward -- just push and hope you keep the cut straight. Having a friend help you with the cut really makes a HUGE difference. Thanks David!! Of course he wasn't helping me at this moment because he was taking the damn picture ;)


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Cutting_Jig.jpg
Cutting a long and narrow board required a quick jig to help keep the board and cut straight.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Cut_Competed.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Mock_up3.jpg

1st pic is 5 of the 7 sheets of 4x8 3.4" MDF cut into (8) 16" wide front panels and (16) 7" deep side panels. With the 2.5" deep side fabric panels I plan to put on the walls, that 7" depth will be reduced visually to 4.5" in the room.

2nd pic is a mock-up of the column in the HT room. Note, I need to cut the side pieces at an angle at the top a bit (to allow it to fit under the ceiling vault) and the some holes for the speaker. That's next on the list :)


I am paging through this thread and it is long, so this may be mentioned later, but I don't think this is a good way to guide wood through the blade. I think if you want to sandwich the wood between two guides, you need to use the rip fence on one side, but set it up so the guide on the other side of the fence ends before the wood gets to the blade. I'm pretty sure you increase the risk of kickback of blade binding with that set up. Safety first, etc, etc.

Looks great swithey, and I look forward to getting to the end of the thread!

Steve - love that shadow-boxed screen. I wanted to do mine that way but couldn't afford to move my speakers back any more. I think that's going to look very good with an image on it...

Steve,
That screen wall looks great. That is exactly the kind of thing I'm hoping to do if I can make it work. How are you planning to attach the screen frame to the wall? Can it just rest in there with a little velcro to keep it secure?

Steve, been awhile. Your progress is looking good. I like the speakers. I am still reading all the stuff you sent. I should have asked for the cliffs notes ;). Any way I may be following your lead on building speakers but I really like the axiom QS8 design. You wouldn't happen to know where I can get plans to build something like those, would you?

Drew

I am paging through this thread and it is long, so this may be mentioned later, but I don't think this is a good way to guide wood through the blade. I think if you want to sandwich the wood between two guides, you need to use the rip fence on one side, but set it up so the guide on the other side of the fence ends before the wood gets to the blade. I'm pretty sure you increase the risk of kickback of blade binding with that set up. Safety first, etc, etc.

Looks great swithey, and I look forward to getting to the end of the thread!
Thanks for the tip. We actually only used that method for a few of the boards. With the MDF, kickback is almost non-existent. However, with a harder wood you are correct. Glad you like the build :)

Steve - love that shadow-boxed screen. I wanted to do mine that way but couldn't afford to move my speakers back any more. I think that's going to look very good with an image on it...
I'd been thinking about it for sometime and decided to do it. The trick was to keep the sides, top and bottom of the cavity as open as possible so sound could transfer though it vs. bouncing around in there. It did take some time to get it built (with careful planning) but in the end, the cage is strong enough to stand on without moving. I love 3.5" deck screws!

Steve,
That screen wall looks great. That is exactly the kind of thing I'm hoping to do if I can make it work. How are you planning to attach the screen frame to the wall? Can it just rest in there with a little velcro to keep it secure?
Yes, it will rest in there with gravity (but secured with some industrial velcro as well). I have a 1.5" lip in the back to support it and make sure it does not fall through.

Steve, been awhile. Your progress is looking good. I like the speakers. I am still reading all the stuff you sent. I should have asked for the cliffs notes ;). Any way I may be following your lead on building speakers but I really like the axiom QS8 design. You wouldn't happen to know where I can get plans to build something like those, would you?

Drew
Yes -- lots of reading and no Cliff Notes :D

No public designs that I know about. However, the one Rick designed for me at Selah Audio (http://www.selahaudio.com/) could probably be built to have top and bottom firing woofers (vs. on the sides). I'd contact him and see if that could work (and please report back). I would think that if this XO design worked AS IS, there would not be any design fee (just the price of the drivers, XO, etc) -- but you'll need to ask him about that. You could easily build a pair for about 1/2 the price of the QS8s and probably have a better sounding speaker. BTW, even if Rick did needed to design an XO for this speaker, his fee is very reasonable.

Quick Update.

Yldesyde came over yesterday (thanks again David) and we finished about 80% of the fabric screen wall. I must say attaching fabric is a PITA. I'll be glad when we finish that up on Tuesday eve. I also finished the DIY screen frame and painted it black. We plan to get that covered with the SMX material on Tuesday as well.

I was too rushed this morning to snap a any pics but I'll get some up Tuesday once everything is done.

My next item to complete is the crown and base molding for the screen wall. The plan is to have some small curtain pockets on the sides (the wife is sewing the curtains) and a slightly deeper center section. The center section will be kind of like a mini 6" deep soffit with maple veneer on the bottom. The soffit height will only be the height of the crown -- so all you will see is the crown and the bottom maple once completed. I wanted something a bit more exciting than just a flat front wall. More work, yes (are you at all surprised :rolleyes: ) ... but should look great once completed. I have 5 1/2 work eves left to get it done.

Great News -- just check ABCs website and the OU vs. Texas game WILL be broadcasted in HiDef -- YEA! I was not looking forward to standard-def content on the projection screen.

I hooked up my HTPC last night (about 1:30am) and watched a few minutes of Jay Leno in HD. It was impressed. Sporting events should be like you are there.

Hee, hee -- I know what you mean!! I'll turn on ESPN Sportscenter and just stare at the screen because it's so awesome (ESPN HD). Ahhhhh...it was all worth it (says the man who is 80% done but can't get motivated to do anything else because his projector, screen, and speakers are all hooked up ;) ).

Mike

Great News -- just check ABCs website and the OU vs. Texas game WILL be broadcasted in HiDef -- YEA! I was not looking forward to standard-def content on the projection screen.

I hooked up my HTPC last night (about 1:30am) and watched a few minutes of Jay Leno in HD. It was impressed. Sporting events should be like you are there.

At least you can get ABC in HD. Oklahoma's cable provider Cox is currently fighting with ABC over HD and because of this they aren't going to broadcast the game in HD. OTA HD is the only option

What HD card are you using in your HTPC?
Boomer Sooner.

BTW, Your theatre is looking very impressive.

Hi Steve,

wondering how did you cut the 45 deg bevel angle on your fabric frames? Like gary (GPowers) did you use router bits to cut them after you make the frame first or any other method?

Also, how are you going to attach them to the wall?

thanks
srini

I'll help field this one....

One simple way is to cut 2" strips of MDF 1/2 inch, and then bevel the saw to 45 degrees and run the strips through again. You end up with all 2" strips with one beveled edge. Then using a mitersaw, cut the pieces to length, and cut the ends to make the corners beveled as well. Using a router I beleive is more work, more clamping, more prone to error. Mass production of the bevels works better. I had over 70 frames to make and did it this way. I used 1/2" plywood under the MDF to make the frames 1" thick.

gary

At least you can get ABC in HD. Oklahoma's cable provider Cox is currently fighting with ABC over HD and because of this they aren't going to broadcast the game in HD. OTA HD is the only option

What HD card are you using in your HTPC?
Boomer Sooner.

BTW, Your theatre is looking very impressive.
I used the AverTVHD MCE A180 HDTV Tuner (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/avermedia-avertvhd-mce-a180-hdtv-tuner-white-box/cName/hdtv-tuner-cards). It was recommended on the Sage.tv forum. Not too bad for $69.

http://www.pcalchemy.com/images/avermedia/a180/a180.jpg

Hi Steve,

wondering how did you cut the 45 deg bevel angle on your fabric frames? Like gary (GPowers) did you use router bits to cut them after you make the frame first or any other method?

Also, how are you going to attach them to the wall?

thanks
srini
Yes, what Gary said. I did it just about the same way. This method creates some really strong frames -- just be sure to use strong wood glue between the layers.

As far as hanging them, I'm still working on that. My 1st idea is to put a small firing strip on the wall (so I can get something attached directly to the wall studs), then use (2) "tooth" hanging clips used to hang pictures with small rubber pads on the lower corners to silence any vibration. I'm also considering using some 2" brads which will hold them and also allow me to pull them off if I ever need to do so. A French Cleat is also on the table. I just need to think about it some and have not had the time.

...
Applied the 2nd layer of drywall this weekend. All that is left is to do the ceiling. I'm waiting for my lights to arrive.

The Green Glue comes in some rather large tubes. From the pics on the website, it looks like normal "caulk" size tubes. This pics shows you the size difference between the quart size GG and normal caulk (both the gun and the tube).

Is the GD / double drywall still worth doing, given you're going with an infinite baffle SW (which presumably will vent a ton of LF out through the roof)? Not trying to be cute, I really want to know, to see if I can talk myself down from the precipice of DIY speakers and IB subwoofers :rolleyes:


It's not as soundproofed as I wanted but with the bass absorbtion I'm doing in the room, it should dramatically help the "length" of the boominess heard outside the room. What you'll hear is a quick "boom, boom" outside verses "booooooooooooooom, booooooooooooooooom".

...from your post #29 (still catching up on your thread, getting close to the end, yay), haha, times have changed (then again, that was before you decided on DD/GG, so...)

Update..

David and I finished the screen wall tonight. I think it turned out great. Its just unbelievable how much light is absorbed by the black GOM. I plan to get the DIY screen done tomorrow.

Wide View of Screen Wall
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/ScreenWal-BlackGOM.JPG


Side View of 8” Deep Shadow Box
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/ScreenWall-ShadowBox.JPG


Close-Up of Shadow Box
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/ScreenWall-ShadowBoxCU.JPG

I’m off to bed.

looking good!!!

Now all you have to do is get the LCR's done by Saturday ;)

Seriously, looks good.

Bryan

Wait until you see the picture just POP when surrounded by that black -- I've been amazed at the difference in picture quality from my old gray (primer) or white (blown insulation a year ago) background to now (black). [Of course there is a drawback in that you might find yourself just sitting around watching movies and TV instead of working on your theater ;)]

Looking good,
Mike

Update…

Here are a few pics I snapped tonight. I still need to do some touchups in the morning but I’m as far as I can get before the game. I am bushed and am ready to enjoy a few cold ones. The seats are DAMN comfortable. The picture on the SMX screen material is outstanding. And Mike -- Yes, it is very hard to pull myself away at this point!

View From the Rear
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Seating-Rear.JPG

10' wide 2.35:1 screen. Once I install the black trim, it will slim down to 9.5' wide. I love the size and so does the wife. She is looking forward to watching Gray's Anatomy Sunday eve in High Def.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Seating-Screen.JPG



View From the Front

I still have to build the rear cabinet between the back columns, finish the wet bar over on the side, build the front LCRs and IB Sub and hang the 14 wall panels. The "real" rears are currently being used as fronts and I have some old Boston Accoustics as the rears right now. The projector is on a temp shelf but will eventaully be hidden inside the rear cabinet with a small hole in the front for the image to escape. The doors will be replaced with some sold core maple to match the columns.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Seating-Front.jpg

I’ll post some pics later this weekend or on Monday outlining the steps on the DIY screen.

Looks pretty good. So I gotta ask, why do you have ottomans in front if you have what looks like recliners with calf support? Maybe I'll have to swing by and have a look in person next time I am visiting family in Plano. And tell your wife I said sorry when Texas wins... again. ;D

Looking fantastic!!! Enjoy the game!

Looks pretty good. So I gotta ask, why do you have ottomans in front if you have what looks like recliners with calf support? Maybe I'll have to swing by and have a look in person next time I am visiting family in Plano. And tell your wife I said sorry when Texas wins... again. ;D
Glad you like it. The ottomans are acting more as coffee tables to put drinks/food on. We're just playing around with these and may take them back. They also function as additional seating for large groups since they can easily be moved to the sides of the room.

I'm off to put up the crown above the wet bar enrance and do some painting. It's going to be a crazy morning. And we'll see about the game -- hopefully it will be a close one!

Hey Steve,

Wow, this looks really good. Those seats look very comfortable, the columns look great, the surrounds fit very well, the screen looks very wide as well... :)

A great looking room! I'm sure the pics don't do it justice. Really looking forward to seeing your speaker build.

Best,
Den

Steve, the room is awesome!! Boy is that really coming together. Yes, I believe you will find that for the next week or so not a lot will get done, but you'll be watching plenty of movies and HDTV :)

Although not having speakers done might motivate you ... perhaps you should finish everything else before the speakers so you're motivated ;)

Ugh, and tough loss to Texas I thought we were doing great at halftime but we just never got it back the second half...tell your wife I'm very sorry and I feel her pain :(

Thanks,
Mike

Is the GD / double drywall still worth doing, given you're going with an infinite baffle SW (which presumably will vent a ton of LF out through the roof)? Not trying to be cute, I really want to know, to see if I can talk myself down from the precipice of DIY speakers and IB subwoofers :rolleyes:
Brad,

You are correct in that the IB will fill the attic space with bass. One thing working in my favor is the attic space where the IB sub will live is pretty much secluded from the rest of the house attic space. I DD and GGed the wet bar area because I wanted to give a little extra "protection" for late night viewing since my daughters room is on the other side of wet bar wall.

My theater is far from a perfect sealed room and I think that I would have had to go through some quite extensive lengths to really seal it up... and I was not really up for that. Even with my wimpy 8" sub I have now, by wife can hear faint "thunder" type sounds in the 1st floor MBR located in front of the house. The Media Room is in the rear above the garage. She said it's not horrible but you can hear it. Once I get the IB, LOUD night viewings will not be possible (mainly to keep my my neighbors from lynching me according to MarkP).

The main goal of the IB is not volume but for clean and very low bass. But a benefit of the design is I'll be able to pressurize the room quite easily making it easy to "feel" the bass -- something I really want to experience.

Looking fantastic!!! Enjoy the game!
Thanks Gary. I'm really happy with the results so far. It's nice to actually enjoy the room.

Hey Steve,

Wow, this looks really good. Those seats look very comfortable, the columns look great, the surrounds fit very well, the screen looks very wide as well... :)

A great looking room! I'm sure the pics don't do it justice. Really looking forward to seeing your speaker build.

Best,
Den
Den,

Good to hear from you again. Thanks for the kind words. Yes, it was very hard to get the right pics to show off what it really looks like. The few folks we had over for the game were very impressed with it so far. I still have more to do but we're well on the way.

Now all you have to do is get the LCR's done by Saturday ;)

Seriously, looks good.

Bryan
I wish I could have had those done! The "temp" Boston Acoustics are working okay as rears but do not have the strong mids my "true" rears (currently used as fronts) have now.

I'm at a crossroad right now. Do I build the IB Sub or the LCRs 1st? That little 8" sub I have in there now bottoms out constantly when watching heavy bass movies (very distracting to me) . On the other had, my center channel is a slim BOSE (laugh now I know) and is a bit anemic.

I think I'm going to build the LCRs 1st so I can get some real clean sound in the room then move onto the IB sub. Sorry I will not have them done for the "Selah Audio/Rick Craig" show :(. I was really trying to get them built so I could give you my impressions before you left :mad:

Steve, the room is awesome!! Boy is that really coming together. Yes, I believe you will find that for the next week or so not a lot will get done, but you'll be watching plenty of movies and HDTV :)

Although not having speakers done might motivate you ... perhaps you should finish everything else before the speakers so you're motivated ;)

Ugh, and tough loss to Texas I thought we were doing great at halftime but we just never got it back the second half...tell your wife I'm very sorry and I feel her pain :(

Thanks,
Mike
Mike,

Yes, yesterday was full of excitement and disappointment. While we did loose, the HiDef experience was just astounding. I did have to run to BB at the beginning of the game to get a replacement HDMI to DVI cable -- mine was acting a bit flaky. The wife kept commenting on how clear the picture looked and how she could see individual blades of grass. She even said I was forgiven for all the late nights and the days she had to watch the kids 24/7 while I worked on the room. It was definitely one for those "priceless" moments :D

As far as the LCRs, I think they are next on the list. I really want a strong front stage and these will fit the bill quite well. And I'll try to stay out of the room as much as possible so I can get them built :rolleyes:

If your LCRs are designed well they will have plenty of bass anyway

The wife kept commenting on how clear the picture looked and how she could see individual blades of grass. She even said I was forgiven for all the late nights and the days she had to watch the kids 24/7 while I worked on the room. It was definitely one for those "priceless" moments :D

Ahhh...I love those moments :) My wife will invite someone over for a demo and after they leave (very satisifed and full of praise) she'll look at me and say, "There, I knew you needed a pick me up -- now get back to work!" :p

Mike

If your LCRs are designed well they will have plenty of bass anyway
Even better. I plan to pickup the wood this week and get started on the build.

Ahhh...I love those moments :) My wife will invite someone over for a demo and after they leave (very satisifed and full of praise) she'll look at me and say, "There, I knew you needed a pick me up -- now get back to work!" :p

Mike
LOL!! Both my wife and I are still in ah that the room is actually functional. We are really enjoying it. I need to get my universal remote programmed so I can quit juggling (3) remotes.

If you want to get the theater done, unplug the projector and put it back in the box. Once you have the theater functional, then progress on your theater will slow down a lot. It will turn into the option of watching a movie or working on the theater. Trust me, pack it up till you are done with every major part of your build.

If you want to get the theater done, unplug the projector and put it back in the box. Once you have the theater functional, then progress on your theater will slow down a lot. It will turn into the option of watching a movie or working on the theater. Trust me, pack it up till you are done with every major part of your build.
SO TRUE!! And that is why I waited so long to get my equipment. Believe me -- I still have the drive. I really want to get my strong front stage (LCRs) and some heart-stopping bass (IB Sub) in this room. PLUS -- I have bpape on my butt to get things done. It's the only thing that might get him to visit Texas :rolleyes:

Now, once I get that done, things might slow down a bit -- well until the wife says to get the Wet Bar done :D

Steve,

Congrats on the great looking room!

Your room is generally the same size as mine. I've been going back and forth between two rows of three recliners or 1 row of four recliners and a bar. Are you still doing the bar as a second row? If so, how much room are you leaving for the bar?

Thanks,

Ed

Yeah, yeah... I'll get down there - you forget I have relatives down there. I'll be down at some point. Business has just been nuts lately. Plus, I'm doing 3 demo rooms at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest (and one of them is Rick Craig's). :D

Bryan

If you want to get the theater done, unplug the projector and put it back in the box. Once you have the theater functional, then progress on your theater will slow down a lot. It will turn into the option of watching a movie or working on the theater. Trust me, pack it up till you are done with every major part of your build.

Oh man, this made me want to cry! I don't think I have the power in me to do that :o

You're right though, that would definitely move things along at a faster pace (but I'm okay with my slower pace matched with movie/HD watching ;) ).

The true motivator would be if my wife were hot on my tail to get things done but she seems okay with my slower pace...for now...

Mike

Steve,

Congrats on the great looking room!

Your room is generally the same size as mine. I've been going back and forth between two rows of three recliners or 1 row of four recliners and a bar. Are you still doing the bar as a second row? If so, how much room are you leaving for the bar?

Thanks,

Ed
Yes -- the bar is still on the plan. I have about 4' "usable" behind the front seats when they are reclined. I plan to build a 14" deep x 8'-10' long table that will seat 4-5 people in armless swivel seat bar stools with backs (Bar Stools TBD). Since my chairs do not have cup holders, I'm playing around with the idea of a mini-ledge with cup holders a little lower than the table top so people sitting in the front chairs will have a place to put their drinks .

Oh man, this made me want to cry! I don't think I have the power in me to do that :o

You're right though, that would definitely move things along at a faster pace (but I'm okay with my slower pace matched with movie/HD watching ;) ).

The true motivator would be if my wife were hot on my tail to get things done but she seems okay with my slower pace...for now...

Mike
My wife is still on my tail to get it done but at a reduced "pre-OU game" rate - YEA! I just want to get things done so I can take a breather before the other Honey -Dos get pushed to the top of the list.

Steve - you've gotta get back on the stick and build that IB sub. You don't want me to beat you to it...

Steve - you've gotta get back on the stick and build that IB sub. You don't want me to beat you to it...
I want both the LCRs and IB at the same time but had to pick one. LCRs seems like the best choice but I really look forward to some LOW bass in my room as well.

I'm picking up the wood tomorrow so I can get started on them ASAP.

Did you decide on birch ply or mdf?

Did you decide on birch ply or mdf?
I decided to go with the Birch. It's only a $33 TOTAL premium over the MDF and according to MarkP will improve the sound.

To build all (3) LCRs, I need to purchase:

- (1) sheet of 3/4" 4x8 MDF (using only 50% the sheet)
- (2) sheets of 3/4" 5x5 Birch (using 100% of both sheets)
- (3) sheets of 3/8" 8x4 flexible plywood for the sides (using all but 50% of the 3rd sheet).

Total comes to $160 (+Tax) for all the wood. Not too bad.

To solve your building dilemma, perhaps you can build your LCRs, and while you wait for the glue & caulk to dry, you can work on the IB... :)

To solve your building dilemma, perhaps you can build your LCRs, and while you wait for the glue & caulk to dry, you can work on the IB... :)
Hmm.. I might be able to cut the wood for the IB manifolds at the same time. Guess I need to get those panned out before tomorrow eve.

MarkP -- any suggestion on the build would be great! This is my current plan:

- (2) layers of 3/4" material (1 layer of MDF, 1 Layer of plywood)
- (2) manifolds each with (2) drivers firing at each other built between 16" on-center studs.
- Raise them off the floor about 4" with a rear support to reduce the vibrations hitting the floor system (but not required). Maybe something like this (see the entire build and his review HERE (http://white.hometheatertalk.com/tips/ib.htm)):
http://white.hometheatertalk.com/images/equipment/subwoofer/08_install_manifold.jpg http://white.hometheatertalk.com/images/equipment/subwoofer/04_feet.jpg http://white.hometheatertalk.com/images/equipment/subwoofer/10_install_gr_closeup.jpg

The culters are in the process of talking me into a setup with four 18"ers. Man, I must be crazy. Please get yours done so I'll have another reference point for these things.

The culters are in the process of talking me into a setup with four 18"ers. Man, I must be crazy :eek: . Please get yours done so I'll have another reference point for these things.
Holy Crap -- (4) 18" -- you are crazy :eek: Funny you mention the culters. They tried to talk me into the 18's also :p

I'll bet my room would be fine with (2) 15's but (4) just makes it unbelievable and takes the place of any need for shakers :D

BTW -- you were worried about cutting a hole in your walls for the 15s -- with (4) 18's, they'll make the holes for you (in your house and your next door neighbors too)! ;)

I would stay away from the 18's simply because I have been in rooms that have a single 12 or two 12's and they rock the place, why do you need 4 18's? I know that I.B. is different than a sealed or ported box, but it's still way overkill, when in an I.B. setup, 4 12's is more than you would need.

Do you ever think you would be able to have the 4 18's cranked to their potential? I don't think so. Plus, you can justify the smaller drivers better with the spouse when you start talking about the crazy people that put 8 18's in their house, and follow that up with "It's like a cult for them, I don't get it...."!

On the one hand, I'm worried about overkill but on the other, I'm worried about cutting a big hole in my wall and it NOT doing much for me (vs. the sub I already have). The 18s aren't that much more in price. The biggest deal about using them is just the extra hassle in building the thing because it is that much bigger and heavier.

I think the whole point with these IBs is that you never really push them to their full potential. You want them barely cruising along so that the distortion is at an absolute minimum. But, because of the lack of enclosure, you do need a whole lot more displacement to produce the same punch. Everyone says to err on the side of too much because it usually is what is required.

I dunno, we'll see...

I am working on 2 15s and 1 18 for a room that is only 2200 cubic feet. I ended up not going with an IB setup, but this system makes the house shake. Really.

Steve,

I'm curious about the speakers. I am going to do columns like yourself, but I was planning on putting in-wall speakers inside the columns instead of building the entire speaker myself. Any thoughts on why I would not want to do that?

Great threat, by the way.

Because you would possible destroy the baffle step of the inwall speaker with the actual column, now if your column was solid all the way up then they work, you may have to recess a couple feet where the speakers go to apply grille cloth

Do you ever think you would be able to have the 4 18's cranked to their potential? I don't think so.

You don't crank an IB system. Actually, when you tune the IB, you end up turning the amp down a lot. The IB is there for clean low bass. If you want low, 18s are a good way to get there. If you want loud, go with sealed or ported in-room subs. I believe some have said that a single 12 sub in the room is much louder than a dual 18 IB.

Personally, I would try to go with 2 IBs if I wanted that many speakers. Maybe one on either side of the front of the room. Or one IB with 18s and another with 15s. Or do an IB and a regular sub (this is what I plan to do). Four 18s is a lot of speakers to mount.

Because you would possible destroy the baffle step of the inwall speaker with the actual column, now if your column was solid all the way up then they work, you may have to recess a couple feet where the speakers go to apply grille cloth

I was about to type "because the columns would probably get in the way of the in-walls" and then there Mark says it much better than I... ;)

Mark - you have an IB, right? What is its configuration? [edit] Nevermind, I found it in your construction thread - quad 15s in a cube manifold. thx.

Because you would possible destroy the baffle step of the inwall speaker with the actual column, now if your column was solid all the way up then they work, you may have to recess a couple feet where the speakers go to apply grille cloth
What if you built the speaker enclosure inside the column?

I am working on 2 15s and 1 18 for a room that is only 2200 cubic feet. I ended up not going with an IB setup, but this system makes the house shake. Really.
If that is the case, I'm in for a roller coaster ride. Should be fun :D Oh and let's not tell the wife ;)

Steve,

I'm curious about the speakers. I am going to do columns like yourself, but I was planning on putting in-wall speakers inside the columns instead of building the entire speaker myself. Any thoughts on why I would not want to do that?

Great threat, by the way.
So if I follow you correctly, you plan on cutting a hole in the front of the column and inserting an in-wall -- right?

I actually talked with Paradigm about this very idea because I was thinking about doing this for my rear columns. I asked thim what was the ideal enclosure volume for their SA series inwalls. He could not give me a number but did mention that it should not be open to the entire inside of the hollow column. He said to put some blockers a few inches above and below the enclosure and loosely fill the new speaker enclosure with polyfil. You will also want to fill the rest of the column tight with regular pink insulation. This is basically building a speaker enclosure inside the column (as you suggested)

Now, to really hide the speaker, you'll want to route out 1/8" off the face of your column so the in-wall can sit back just a bit to be flush with the front of the column. Then you can cover that with speaker fabric to give it a clean look.

Another idea is to do what I did and cut a hole in the front that fits the speaker exactly (like 1/8" gap all the way around), build/buy your regular speaker and put it inside with the front baffel even with the front. You just need to be sure your speaker uses either a front ported or sealed design. Rear porting would not be good inside a column.

I'm sure BPape or MarkP can add more or poke holes in my ideas.

Swithey I updated my thread with pictures of what I did with my columns. I will have more pics when they are all wrapped.

You won't have to tell her, Steve.. she'll feel it.

So if I follow you correctly, you plan on cutting a hole in the front of the column and inserting an in-wall -- right?

I actually talked with Paradigm about this very idea because I was thinking about doing this for my rear columns. I asked thim what was the ideal enclosure volume for their SA series inwalls. He could not give me a number but did mention that it should not be open to the entire inside of the hollow column. He said to put some blockers a few inches above and below the enclosure and loosely fill the new speaker enclosure with polyfil. You will also want to fill the rest of the column tight with regular pink insulation. This is basically building a speaker enclosure inside the column (as you suggested)

Now, to really hide the speaker, you'll want to route out 1/8" off the face of your column so the in-wall can sit back just a bit to be flush with the front of the column. Then you can cover that with speaker fabric to give it a clean look.

Another idea is to do what I did and cut a hole in the front that fits the speaker exactly (like 1/8" gap all the way around), build/buy your regular speaker and put it inside with the front baffel even with the front. You just need to be sure your speaker uses either a front ported or sealed design. Rear porting would not be good inside a column.

I'm sure BPape or MarkP can add more or poke holes in my ideas.

Steve,

You understood me perfectly. Thanks for the info. I was planning on doing the enclosure, but not filling in the column with insulation. Thanks for that tip.

As far as building it like you, I'm bold, but I'm not daring just yet. ;) I thought that by using the inwall speaker inside an enclosure would give me the desired sound at a decent price. I was looking at the JBL SoundPoint series (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3652369) or HTI-55s (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4095855) (which I really liked), but this Yamaha (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4031603) really caught my eye for some reason.

Thanks for the tips! You da man.

Steve,

You understood me perfectly. Thanks for the info. I was planning on doing the enclosure, but not filling in the column with insulation. Thanks for that tip.

As far as building it like you, I'm bold, but I'm not daring just yet. ;) I thought that by using the inwall speaker inside an enclosure would give me the desired sound at a decent price. I was looking at the JBL SoundPoint series (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3652369) or HTI-55s (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4095855) (which I really liked), but this Yamaha (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4031603) really caught my eye for some reason.

Thanks for the tips! You da man.
Glad to help and I checked out your build this morning. Should be a very nice room!

Mini Update....

I picked up the wood yesterday The 3/8" flexible plywood is REALLY bendy. I would say this stuff bends about as easily as 1/8" masonite (if not easier). It should be easy to work with. The 3/4" Birch is quality stuff and has some good weight to it -- but not quite as much as MDF.

I plan to start on the LCRs tomorrow eve. Tonight is out because I have a buddy coming over who is building a HT himself and wants to check out my room.

I should have some pics for everyone by the weekend. I'm really getting excited about the build and have all my plans, dimensions and cut layouts ready. Did you expect any less from me? :rolleyes: :o

You won't have to tell her, Steve.. she'll feel it.
I actually did tell her that once I get the subs installed, it will be an entirely new experience. She just smiled and looked at me funny. She just has no idea :D

If you plan to build speakers into columns or walls, make sure you account for this when the xovers are designed. As was stated earlier, part of the xover is a baffle step compensation. When you mount it into a wall, you in effect widen the baffle which changes it's response. Now the compensation is all wrong.

It can be done but you need to plan for it.

Bryan

If you plan to build speakers into columns or walls, make sure you account for this when the xovers are designed. As was stated earlier, part of the xover is a baffle step compensation. When you mount it into a wall, you in effect widen the baffle which changes it's response. Now the compensation is all wrong.

It can be done but you need to plan for it.

Bryan
Not to take over this thread, but does that also apply to a sealed box like Steve's? Also do you see anything wrong with how he recessed the wall 2" to allow the speaker to set in there?

Not to take over this thread, but does that also apply to a sealed box like Steve's? Also do you see anything wrong with how he recessed the wall 2" to allow the speaker to set in there?
Rick at Selah Audio knew how they would be mounted (the depth and flush with the front of the column) before he designed my surrounds. From what I understood, he took that into consideration when designing the XOs. Maybe I can get him to ring in and confirm this.

Rick at Selah Audio knew how they would be mounted (the depth and flush with the front of the column) before he designed my surrounds. From what I was told me, he took that into consideration when designing the XOs. Maybe I can get him to ring in and confirm this.
I see. So than here is my next question, how than can a manufacterd speaker be placed anywhere? Or am I wrong there?

I see. So than here is my next question, how than can a manufacterd speaker be placed anywhere? Or am I wrong there?


It really depends on how the speaker is designed and the manufacturer. Some companies pay attention to this and others don't. The advantage here is that we can custom design the speaker for a specific location. Any speaker placed against or very close to a wall will need compensation for boundary effects built into the crossover. If you don't account for this the in-room response suffer.

The answer is they can't be placed anywhere and sound optimal. For example, recessed into the wall two feet. That's an extreme case, but even flush mounting to the wall won't be optimum if there is baffle step accounted for in the XO.

Update…

Hey everyone – hope you had a good weekend. Looks like Da’ Boys actually kicked some a$$ this weekend – finally :)

I got all the wood cut for the LCRs tonight (everything but the curved sides -- I'm going to wait to do that).

Left to right:

- Outer front baffle (MDF -- I accidently cut them off in the pic)
- Inner front baffle (Baltic Birch)
- Rear (Baltic Birch)
- Inner braces, top and bottom – a total of 24 pieces (21 Baltic Birch, 3 MDF). The reason for the MDF is I did not see a need to purchase an entire sheet of BB for 3 small brace pieces. The MDF pieces will be used for outside top of each speaker. Since the top and bottom will be doubled up (for a total thickness of 1.5"), having the MDF on the outside top should not be an issue. The bottom will be (2) layers of BB.

BTW -- they are leaning against the sheets of flexible plywood. It's pretty ugly and not too smooth. I'll need to put a sheet of 1/8" masonite on top of it before I attach the veneer.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCR-WoodCut.JPG


This is a pic of my brace template placed on top of one of the raw brace boards. I plan to head over to my Dad’s on Mon or Tues to get them trimmed down close to size with his band saw and then I’ll use the trim bit on my router to get them perfect.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCR-BraceUncut.JPG

More soon.

Update…

Hey everyone – hope you had a good weekend. Looks like Da’ Boys actually kicked some a$$ this weekend – finally :)

Booooo!
Thank god the Eagles beat them last week. :p

Hey everyone – hope you had a good weekend. Looks like Da’ Boys actually kicked some a$$ this weekend – finally


Yeah, but they played the U of H, uhhh, I mean the Texans... To lose that would have been embarrassing. (or, perhaps, you meant the other boys)

I don't care whether the Cowboys win... What's really depressing is T.O. did well, which gave the media yet another reason to devote half of their airtime to talking about him. :(

I'm getting anxious to see those LCRs.. :)

I don't care whether the Cowboys win... What's really depressing is T.O. did well, which gave the media yet another reason to devote half of their airtime to talking about him. :(

I'm getting anxious to see those LCRs.. :)
Yes, I'm comitted ot get them done ASAP. I'm planning to work every eve this week -- hopefully I'll have some significant progress to share with you in a few days.

DMGambone -- Gotta cheer for the home team. Should be an exciting season.

ebr -- You're probably right. We'll see what happens next week against NY.

Booooo!
Thank god the Eagles beat them last week. :p

The only reason Philly won that game was Parcells. He won't play TO to his potential.


DA BEARS !!

Speaker Design Survey...

Okay guys – let’s have a vote. Which “style” do you like better? Option #1 is my favorite (but with a wider front baffle) and IMO the easiest to build. Please excuse my quick MS Paint renderings :o

BTW -- The side "bow" for which ever one I pick will just like Option #3 since that is the model used for the "inner" brace template.

Option #1 (but with a wider front baffle), Option #2 and Option #3 (the original)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Speaker-Opt1.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Speaker-Opt2.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Speaker-Opt3.jpg

I like that Rocket design.

Will your speakers be visible?

I like that Rocket design.

Will your speakers be visible?
No, they will be hidden behind the false wall. Part of me says throw them together and not worry about the look -- but the other part of me (the anal part) says do it right and make them look good.

Wow. No one will ever see them and you not only designed them with curved sides but are now considering finishing them out like Rockets. [tips hat]

Wow. No one will ever see them and you not only designed them with curved sides but are now considering finishing them out like Rockets. [tips hat]
Thanks but I have not done it yet. Honestly, staining is less work than painting (at least for me since I've done so much of it). Mine may not have that hi-gloss top black piece either. I guess that is the nice part about DIY speakers -- you can do whatever you want.

I would cover them in black velvet if they are going behind the screen, throw them together square like they were designed, not sure internal volumes and such was accounted for in the "curved" design but probably. The blacker they are behind that AT screen, the better.

You ready for my beloved Huskers to put a whoopin on your Longhorns? If Baylor went up by 10 til 2nd quarter expect the Huskers to be up by 30 in Memorial Stadium "wheres the winky icon in quick reply?"

As long as you account for the volume difference, 2 or 3 would be fine. Just make sure you get the baffle width correct. I'd avoid #1 as it will change things a bit. Also, I'd avoid the velvet on the cabinets. Again, it's an absorbant and not accounted for in the xover baffle step. You can TRY a little around the tweeter if you want to see how it changes things.

I do agree that I'd finish them decently so you could potentially sell them if you ever wanted to.

Bryan

If Baylor went up by 10 til 2nd quarter expect the Huskers to be up by 30 in Memorial Stadium.

And lost by 32.....Hook'em Horns

I'd go with #3. Then you have the stain look if you ever show them off and the face is black so they could be behind a false wall.

Steve, do you anticipate ever getting rid of the theater? If not, make em rectangular boxes and paint them flat black. If you do, then finish them properly so you can show them off at some point.

If you don't anticipate getting rid of the theater, but ever want to do anything like SandmanX did with lighting his speakers behind the screen, then that's a whole different ballgame. In that case, finish them right.

Steve, do you anticipate ever getting rid of the theater? If not, make em rectangular boxes and paint them flat black. If you do, then finish them properly so you can show them off at some point.

If you don't anticipate getting rid of the theater, but ever want to do anything like SandmanX did with lighting his speakers behind the screen, then that's a whole different ballgame. In that case, finish them right.

Steve - I challenge you not to finish them. :p

If I have you pegged right based on all of your excellent work to this point, then you will have a harder time not finishing them.

Job worth doing is worth doing right.

Let the challenge begin. ;)

Thanks guys for the input. I "might" sell them later or even put them in the living room. Also I'm just the kind of guy if you do something -- do it all the way.

BPape -- If I build #1, it will basically look like #3 but with veneer on the front. I just wanted to see a design with a stained front vs. black. I like #1 the best but #2 (a Sonus Faber Design (http://www.sonusfaber.com/index.html)) is nice as well. I'd need to check with Rick since the baffle is a little different which may cause issues with the current XO design.

MarkP/Toxarch -- good point on black front so not to reflect the light from behind the screen. I only plan to have the center channel behind the screen.

SVonhof -- The theater will never go away in this house but if I ever move, I'm not sure if I'll take them with me. I'm hoping the new buyer will "purchase" the entire setup from me so I can start over with new equipment. I'll build the next hot DIY speaker or just have Rick build me a set of one of these. I also do not plan to do the "SandmanX Lighted Speaker Design" behind the screen because my screen frame design has (2) vertical support boards in the middle that would not be that attractive.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/rc52.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/diaccutonpole.jpg

Steve - I challenge you not to finish them. :p

If I have you pegged right based on all of your excellent work to this point, then you will have a harder time not finishing them.

Job worth doing is worth doing right.

Let the challenge begin. ;)
I think I will lose that challenge because you have me pegged right. However, this only holds true while I stay motivated. Once the motivation is gone, it will never gets done :rolleyes: No worries because I am just not happy with the overall sound of the HT as it stands right now. Once I get the front speakers and IB sub built, it will be hard to wipe a smile off my face.

I had lunch at my Dads today and got all the braces trimmed up with his scrollsaw. What a great tool. I plan to cut out the centers (with a jigsaw) and route them smooth tonight. I'll post some pics at that time.

With the progress I'm making, I may be able to assemble the "frame" by the weekend.

I don't care whether the Cowboys win... What's really depressing is T.O. did well, which gave the media yet another reason to devote half of their airtime to talking about him. :(

I'm just hoping the inevitable TO implosion happens sooner rather than later, so I can root for the Cowboys with a clear conscience <-- Yes, that was bait, anxiously awaiting Deion Sanders and Jerry Jones references... ;)

Thanks for the updates swithey...

Quick question about the IB sub for you Steve. Are you going to need more acoustical treatments dedicated to trapping bass with such a powerful subwoofer system?

I am not an acoustical expert but I would imagine that at some point the amount of bass in a room would overpower acoustical traps and treatments...or do I have this wrong?

I also thought the idea was to balance the levels between high, mid, and low frequencies. I guess I am just really trying to understand the need for this type of sub woofer. I love bass but keep thinking that you will not be able to crank up the bass without overpowering the other speakers or acoustical traps. Please help me understand this.

Scroll saw? What did you cut with a scroll saw?

You don't mean jig saw do you? If so, I just cut through some 3/4" mdf pretty easilly with my Ryobi cordless jig saw a few weeks ago. The right blade and you can do wonders. Oh, and cutting out the inside of the baffles, jig saw and maybe a drill to get the corners done. It doesn't have to look good, since it's going inside the box anyway... :)

LCR Update…

I got a lot accomplished today and had to stop because I think the router noise was making my neighbors mad (especially after midnight).

Okay – let’s reference the model for my speaker frame. This was built by Mike (m1ke323) over at HTGuide.com. What I’ve been working on is the curved braces/shelves you see inside the speaker (top, middle and bottom). I received a template from Mike that I used to make the 21 braces I needed for the (3) front speakers.
NOTE: These are NOT my speakers but are used as a design reference for my speakers
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Dayton-3Way-Mike.jpg


Step 1: Lay the template on each piece of wood and trace the outline with a pencil
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCR-BraceUncut.JPG

Step 2: Use a bandsaw (a normal jigsaw will do the trick as well) to cut off all the excess wood along the sides. The goal here is to get as close to the pencil line without going over. This makes it easier to route off the remaining material (more on that later)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-ScrollSawCut.JPG


Step 3: Use a jigsaw to cut out the (2) holes in each brace.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-CutOutHoles1.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-CutOutHoles2.jpg


Step 4: Route smooth the edges and holes in each brace with a router trim bit. The trick to this is to use the “template” Mike sent me as a guide and allow the router trim bit to follow the contour of Mike’s brace against the one I made. The key is to keep them stuck together so the “template” does not slide around and mess of your board. I used some removable double-stick tape I bought at Michael’s along with clamps to hold it in place. I highly recommend the tape because I ruined my 1st one last night because it moved and I did not notice it until it was too late. And.. the end result is a perfect copy.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BraceRouting1.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BraceRouting2.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BraceRouting3.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BraceRouting4.JPG

Continued...

Here is what I got done by 12:15am this morning and I stopped so not to disturb my already disturbed neighbors. Left stack is complete. Right stack will be done tomorrow eve.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BracesDone.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BracestoDo.JPG


And the mess I created in the garage. I really need to get the vacuum attachment installed on my router!
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-RoutingMess.jpg

More soon :)

No routers past Midnight? What kind of a neighborhood do you live in anyway? :D

Seriously, looks like things are coming along nicely.

I'll be checking my mail and your thread while I'm out in Denver for RMAF. Will have to keep Rick updated as to how you're coming along. Should be easy enough since I'll be in his room half the time.

Bryan

Quick question about the IB sub for you Steve. Are you going to need more acoustical treatments dedicated to trapping bass with such a powerful subwoofer system?

I am not an acoustical expert but I would imagine that at some point the amount of bass in a room would overpower acoustical traps and treatments...or do I have this wrong?

I also thought the idea was to balance the levels between high, mid, and low frequencies. I guess I am just really trying to understand the need for this type of sub woofer. I love bass but keep thinking that you will not be able to crank up the bass without overpowering the other speakers or acoustical traps. Please help me understand this.An IB sub is just so much more clean sounding and take less power because they have no resistance, the bad thing is that they have the same bass production on the other side of the manifold.

I doubt he will have to trap anymore than a traditional sealed or ported sub in the room but his hair will raise up on his neck and his guests will wonder if its safe to sit in the room... I am guessing hes trapping all corners and stuffing his stages and risers. IBs are nice because they dont have that bloated thump I experience every time I demo just about every theater I have been in. His IB sub will take less time to build than 1 of his surround speakers.

Steve, fyi, unless you have your vacuum attachment hooked to a vacuum system that holds the tubing and such above your workpiece, I wouldn't reccomend hooking it up. I have a vacuum attachment on my router and while it works, it's a pain to deal with the tubing attached to the router and the standard shop-vac that sits on the floor. I would have the vacuum hose over my shoulder, but then you move wrong and it drops off and jerks the router.

Just FYI. If you find a better way of doing it, go for it, I didn't put much time or effort into it.

Also, what you are using in the picture:
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-ScrollSawCut.JPG
looks to be a band-saw. A scroll saw is typically a very fine, short flat blade used for making intricate cuts in the workpiece and is a slow process. A band-saw has a saw that is a big loop that is bending around wheels in the saw housing and is continuously rolling when on. Very good for doing work like you are showing and I wish I had one. I can go to my parents house and use theirs when needed, since they are close enough.

No routers past Midnight? What kind of a neighborhood do you live in anyway? :D

Seriously, looks like things are coming along nicely.

I'll be checking my mail and your thread while I'm out in Denver for RMAF. Will have to keep Rick updated as to how you're coming along. Should be easy enough since I'll be in his room half the time.

BryanJust another reason to not have neighbors, they dont appreciate playing @ 3 am. Now if its say............a Playmate of the year or something to that effect that likes to tan for several hours daily and bring you freshly baked muffins or pie, then the tradeoff could be worth it.

<Beavis> Hehehe - you said Playmate, muffin, and pie in the same sentence. </Beavis>

An IB sub is just so much more clean sounding and take less power because they have no resistance, the bad thing is that they have the same bass production on the other side of the manifold.

I doubt he will have to trap anymore than a traditional sealed or ported sub in the room but his hair will raise up on his neck and his guests will wonder if its safe to sit in the room... I am guessing hes trapping all corners and stuffing his stages and risers. IBs are nice because they dont have that bloated thump I experience every time I demo just about every theater I have been in. His IB sub will take less time to build than 1 of his surround speakers.

If I ever get drivers, I'm going to have a great chance for a good comparison since I have a PB+/2 now and will have a quad 18 IB at some point. I can't wait...

I used some removable double-stick tape I bought at Michael’s along with clamps to hold it in place. I highly recommend the tape because I ruined my 1st one last night because it moved and I did not notice it until it was too late. And.. the end result is a perfect copy.

You can also use 3M 77 Super Glue and spray a light coat on each piece (you don't have to spray the template as well, just one side is good enough, there's enough surface area to keep things together snugly) and then stick the template to it. No clamps needed when I used it for similar work -- made things much faster :) Then you just pull the two pieces apart and you're good to go. A light sanding and the residue from the 77 is gone.

Mike

I received a template from Mike that I used to make the 23 braces I needed for the (3) front speakers.

Ok, why 23? Last I checked, 23 divided by 3 doesn't produce a whole number. You plan on using the template as a brace when you are all done... or are you making a couple of extra templates?

Lovely work BTW. You are starting to convince me to go the DIY route for my speakers as well.

Also, what you are using in the picture: looks to be a band-saw. A scroll saw is typically a very fine, short flat blade used for making intricate cuts in the workpiece and is a slow process. A band-saw has a saw that is a big loop that is bending around wheels in the saw housing and is continuously rolling when on. Very good for doing work like you are showing and I wish I had one. I can go to my parents house and use theirs when needed, since they are close enough.
Okay -- it was 1:15am when I wrote this post. Yes, it is a bandsaw. Guess my brain was not working properly that early in the morning It is a great tool. It is an accessory attachment to my Dads Shopsmith. Neither of us had used it before so it was excited to do the cuts (well for at least the first few braces :rolleyes: ).

I'm with you on the vacuum hookup. It is a little more difficult when you are using the router in "manual mode" vs. attached to a stationary table. Cleanup was easy. I had to use an old fashion broom and dust pan since the noise from the vacuum would have been too loud :o

No routers past Midnight? What kind of a neighborhood do you live in anyway? :D

Seriously, looks like things are coming along nicely.

I'll be checking my mail and your thread while I'm out in Denver for RMAF. Will have to keep Rick updated as to how you're coming along. Should be easy enough since I'll be in his room half the time.

Bryan
No problem. I plan to get the braces completed tonight and start on the rear support and front baffles.

Have fun at RMAF (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest for everyone not familiar with this). Hope he has a nice sub to demo as well. Can you snap a few pics for everyone of the room setup? I'd really like to see it myself.

Quick question about the IB sub for you Steve. Are you going to need more acoustical treatments dedicated to trapping bass with such a powerful subwoofer system?

I am not an acoustical expert but I would imagine that at some point the amount of bass in a room would overpower acoustical traps and treatments...or do I have this wrong?

I also thought the idea was to balance the levels between high, mid, and low frequencies. I guess I am just really trying to understand the need for this type of sub woofer. I love bass but keep thinking that you will not be able to crank up the bass without overpowering the other speakers or acoustical traps. Please help me understand this.
I'm working with BPape for my room accoustics and he had no problem with my current setup. Remember the goal with IB is to get clean and LOW bass without the boomyness of a typical sub. One side benefit is it can go really loud if you want it to ;). My goal was to get some nice air movement so you could "feel" the bass like a fan blowing air on your face.

As far a volume, it is a personal preference thing. In a HT setup, it may be louder and more dominate than when listening to pure music. Honestly, I really will not know for sure until I get the IB installed. Either way, it should be a pretty exciting experience!

I am guessing hes trapping all corners and stuffing his stages and risers. IBs are nice because they dont have that bloated thump I experience every time I demo just about every theater I have been in. His IB sub will take less time to build than 1 of his surround speakers.
I actually have 4 bass traps in my room. One on each of the front corners, one above the star ceiling and a "tuned" bass trap in the rear cabinet (frequency still TBD). Because of the entry door, I could not put them in the rear corners of the room.

Since I've never heard a IB setup before to do a comparison, I'm sure it will be an eye-opening experience :D

If I ever get drivers, I'm going to have a great chance for a good comparison since I have a PB+/2 now and will have a quad 18 IB at some point. I can't wait...
I'm very curious as to what you find out also because the subs you have now are no slouches either. Which 18" drivers are you looking at?

<Beavis> Hehehe - you said Playmate, muffin, and pie in the same sentence. </Beavis>
LOL Funny Bryan!

You can also use 3M 77 Super Glue and spray a light coat on each piece (you don't have to spray the template as well, just one side is good enough, there's enough surface area to keep things together snugly) and then stick the template to it. No clamps needed when I used it for similar work -- made things much faster :) Then you just pull the two pieces apart and you're good to go. A light sanding and the residue from the 77 is gone.

Mike
I thought about using that stuff but was worried about the residue. Nice to know it comes off easily with a light sanding. One nice part about the tape is when it comes off, there is no residue -- but the application takes a few more minutes.

Ok, why 23? Last I checked, 23 divided by 3 doesn't produce a whole number. You plan on using the template as a brace when you are all done... or are you making a couple of extra templates?

Lovely work BTW. You are starting to convince me to go the DIY route for my speakers as well.
You are correct -- I only need 21 braces for the 3 speakers. I messed up on one and gave one to a friend who is planing to build the same speakers (which bring me to 23). I do plan to store the brace template in case I ever need to make more speakers or decide to mass produce these for friends and family ;).

Glad you like the progress. It is definitely a rewarding project. When I tell people I am building/built my own speakers they are always so surprised -- hopefully in a good way :D One lady actually took pics of my DIY surrounds -- and they are not too attractive in there current "raw" state :o

I'm very curious as to what you find out also because the subs you have now are no slouches either. Which 18" drivers are you looking at?

I was about to ask you the same question about drivers because the place I was going to get mine from has gone completely AWOL. No response in a week. I don't like that so will probably not go that route now. Which 15s are you using? I may back down to the PE Titanic 15s because the specs look pretty good and it appears I can actually get them.

I was about to ask you the same question about drivers because the place I was going to get mine from has gone completely AWOL. No response in a week. I don't like that so will probably not go that route now. Which 15s are you using? I may back down to the PE Titanic 15s because the specs look pretty good and it appears I can actually get them.
I'm using the SoundSplinter RL-P 15s (http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp_premium_series_12_and_15_inch_subwoofer.html). They have been touted as very high performing speaker for the price -- a real tank. The PE models are good but are no match for the SS (according to the guys over at HTGuide.com). Also Mike at SoundSplinter is a joy to deal with and has been very quick with his email responses.

Yeah, that was my original second choice but they are out of parts for the 15s and it looks like mid Nov before they are available again. Do you already have yours?

Yeah, that was my original second choice but they are out of parts for the 15s and it looks like mid Nov before they are available again. Do you already have yours?
He actually knew I was looking to get them and emailed me about the upcoming shortage (just after visiting the manufacturing plant earlier that day). He said I should order them sooner than later or I might have to wait a bit. I thought that was nice of him to let me know. I order mine the next day :)

He actually knew I was looking to get them and emailed me about the upcoming shortage (just after visiting the manufacturing plant earlier that day). He said I should order them sooner than later or I might have to wait a bit. I thought that was nice of him to let me know. I order mine the next day :)

Soooo....when you gonna get around to actually building that thing? I mean it seems a real shame for those drivers to just be sitting there in your garage in boxes when I've got this manifold all built and everything... ;)

Do you already have yours?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8410111&&#post8410111

I do plan to store the brace template in case I ever need to make more speakers or decide to mass produce these for friends and family ;).

Steve, you are like a brother to me.

So when you design the IB, all you have to consider is to make the opening to the room equal to the total surface area of the speakers, right? Or is it equal to the surface are of one of the speakers? Is a bigger opening OK?

Your speakers are coming along nicely. I say you just stop right there and assemble one of the speakers so that you know it's all cut right and we can finally see one of the LCRs.

Soooo....when you gonna get around to actually building that thing? I mean it seems a real shame for those drivers to just be sitting there in your garage in boxes when I've got this manifold all built and everything... ;)
What -- you want to "purchase" the ones I have :eek: :D I'll be getting to the IB sub in the next few weeks -- hmm, let me think about it :rolleyes:

BTW -- how do you plan to cut that 1 3/4" thick manifold? Jigsaw? Also, where did you read the MDF/OSB sandwich was better than (2) layers of 3/4" MDF or a layer of 3/4" MD and 3/4" plywood)? I'm not sure they sell 1" OSB at my HD but I've never really looked for it before.

Steve, you are like a brother to me.

So when you design the IB, all you have to consider is to make the opening to the room equal to the total surface area of the speakers, right? Or is it equal to the surface are of one of the speakers? Is a bigger opening OK?

Your speakers are coming along nicely. I say you just stop right there and assemble one of the speakers so that you know it's all cut right and we can finally see one of the LCRs.
You can make the IB manifold any size you want -- just as long as the driver can fit in the opening. MarkP made his (4) 15" woof IB setup fit between his 24" on-center ceiling joists. Others have made them about 12" wide x X" tall to allow room for the driver. Me -- I'm planning to fit mine between a 16" on center studs in the front wall.

I'm ready to see a LCR come together myself. Hopefully I'll have something to show before the end of the weekend. We have a few family activities this weekend (as well as the Cowboys game) so I need to get as much done tonight and tomorrow eve as possible.

What -- you want to "purchase" the ones I have :eek: :D I'll be getting to the IB sub in the next few weeks -- hmm, let me think about it :rolleyes:

BTW -- how do you plan to cut that 1 3/4" thick manifold? Jigsaw? Also, where did you read the MDF/OSB sandwich was better than (2) layers of 3/4" MDF or a layer of 3/4" MD and 3/4" plywood)? I'm not sure they sell 1" OSB at my HD but I've never really looked for it before.

I was joking, but if you really aren't going to do it for a few weeks, I would take them off your hands...

My manifold is 3/4" MDF sandwiched with 3/4" OSB. The MDF is because it routs so well and the OSB is for strength. Plywood would work as well and I have seen them done that way. I will use my router and a home made circle jig to cut the openings. I suspect it will take a few passes to get through the 1 1/2" thick material.

Tox - you are correct, the optimal opening of the manifold should be as big as the total Sd of all the drivers but few are able to make it that big. Mine will be close if I use 18s and will be actually oversize if I use 15s.

Step 3: Use a jigsaw to cut out the (2) holes in each brace.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-ScrollSawCut.JPG
Oh, say it ain't so! A watch and a ring while using a saw? :eek:

I know two people who have a couple less digits because of that... (Word to the wise..) :cool:

They look great so far!

What kind of tape did you use? I tried some double sided tape once and the pieces slid on me while I was routing (it was a disaster as you can imagine). Plus it was really hard to get the tape off -- was yours better? I'm always open for other options.

Mike

Oh, say it ain't so! A watch and a ring while using a saw? :eek:

I know two people who have a couple less digits because of that... (Word to the wise..) :cool:

They look great so far!
Yes, probably not the best choice. I was trying to work quickly since I did it on my lunch hour. I do remove all jewelry (and shoes sometimes as you know :o) when working with other tools. Thanks for the tip.

What kind of tape did you use? I tried some double sided tape once and the pieces slid on me while I was routing (it was a disaster as you can imagine). Plus it was really hard to get the tape off -- was yours better? I'm always open for other options.

Mike
Mike,

I bought this double-stick tape that said "double-stick removable" vs. the standard stuff that just says "double-stick". It was over in the scrapbooking area at Michaels. It's kind of like a slightly thicker scotch tape. Alone it would not hold the wood in place under force (like your spray glue) but with the help of the clamps at just one end of the brace, it worked perfectly. I dropped a few by accent and they split apart when they hit the floor. I would not call it a kung-foo grip but for the little I had to route, it was fine. The tape peels off VERY easily.

Steve,

If your neighbors complain about your router noise at 1:00am, just tell them not to worry. It is nothing compared to the earthquake they will feel in a few weeks lololol

Steve,

If your neighbors complain about your router noise at 1:00am, just tell them not to worry. It is nothing compared to the earthquake they will feel in a few weeks lololol
Ahhhh -- the joys of having a HT and pissing off your neighbors. I didn't like them anyway ;)

What kind of tape did you use? I tried some double sided tape once and the pieces slid on me while I was routing (it was a disaster as you can imagine). Plus it was really hard to get the tape off -- was yours better? I'm always open for other options.

Mike


Mike...Don't use the stuff from the craft store. Use the one of the carpet tapes from Duck Products usually found at HD or Lowes.
It's double sided and about 2 inches wide. Comes in a green and yellow box like the pic below.

http://www.duckproducts.com/common/graphics/products/duckproducts/productshots/00-07192.gif

Mike...Don't use the stuff from the craft store. Use the one of the carpet tapes from Duck Products usually found at HD or Lowes.
It's double sided and about 2 inches wide. Comes in a green and yellow box like the pic below.

http://www.duckproducts.com/common/graphics/products/duckproducts/productshots/00-07192.gif
Dammit -- I looked everywhere at HD and could not find that stuff. Well, all the braces are done now so it looks like I "made" the craft stuff work.

Dammit -- I looked everywhere at HD and could not find that stuff. Well, all the braces are done now so it looks like I "made" the craft stuff work.

It's stocked usually on a back shelf by the flooring department. Where the carpeting tools are. ;)

It's stocked usually on a back shelf by the flooring department. Where the carpeting tools are. ;)
Thanks Ivan.

Also, where did you read the MDF/OSB sandwich was better than (2) layers of 3/4" MDF or a layer of 3/4" MD and 3/4" plywood)?

That was in the FAQ at the IB Cult website. If you use two layers of MDF, the panels will eventually sag because MDF is not really that strong in the long run. They use the example of MDF used as shelves like in a garage. They all end up sagging down after a while. And OSB is supposed to be stronger than CDX and OSB doesn't have the same voids in it like CDX plywood does. They recommend using MDF sandwiched with OSB and you can use regular plywood (CDX) as an alternative to the OSB.

You can make the IB manifold any size you want -- just as long as the driver can fit in the opening. MarkP made his (4) 15" woof IB setup fit between his 24" on-center ceiling joists. Others have made them about 12" wide x X" tall to allow room for the driver. Me -- I'm planning to fit mine between a 16" on center studs in the front wall.

If you are just picking a random size to fit between the studs, then you may want to reconsider. If the opening to the room is too small, then you create a bandpass IB. It's like building an IB with a really big port. If you are using four 15"s in a single IB then that's a pretty good size hole (tall and narrow) required for 16" OC studs. Your opening needs to be at least 4 * Pi * radius * radius. You are going to need at least a 27" x 27" opening if you want the opening to be square and not create a bandpass sub. Or 14.5" x 49" to keep it between your 16" OC studs.

I did see on the IB cult website that you can build the IB around one of the studs. Build the box as though it were for 32" OC framing and cut a notch out for the stud that runs up the center of the IB opening.

ebr, thanks for the response. I thought the opening had to be at least the total Sd of all the subs, but I have seen some that look much smaller. I assume bigger (oversize) is OK cause on the IB website they say to go ahead and build a box for 4 subs even if you are only installing 2 now so that you can add 2 later easily.

Yeah, I think too big is no problem but too small has the bandpass issue you pointed out. Most actually end up with less than optimal openings for the same reasons as Steve. I'm going to be close to optimal but will actually have three load bearing studs passing in front of my outlet. The culters say the studs in front are a better compromise than the smaller manifold/opening. The worse thing you can do - apparently - is make the opening smaller than the cross-section of the manifold.

Anyway, Steve, here's your thread back...

The IB cult suggests osb? Wonder how you glue osb. I prefer baltic birch Plywood not CDX but I guess everyone has their own tastes and the info on the cult is what, 5 years old? Maybe they have updated since then.

I will say that if what I have is a bandwidth sub then a bandwidth sub is what you want Swithey, I was told by people that design speakers, subwoofers that the most important thing was to make the box as perfectly square as you can on the sides and the length didnt matter as much

Well, they didn't specifically say CDX, they just said "plywood" and I always refer to generic plywood as CDX. They said that any extra plywood you have sitting around in your garage can work if you want to use that instead of going out and buying a sheet of OSB. Baltic Birch is a much nicer and stronger plywood than CDX.

Swithey, I'm not taking over your thread, I'm just sharing the info I have read with you and whomever else so that we can all learn to build an IB the right way.

These are taken from the IB FAQ page (http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/).

12) How big an opening should there be for my manifold ?

Regardless of it's Vd, any surface mounted speaker has an opening only as large as it's overall diameter. So the best choice for a manifold would be an opening equal to the summed area of the diameters of the drivers. Now this isn't always possible in the real world. So the recommendation is make the opening as large as possible. Understand an undersized opening will function as a bandpass enclosure. If you have concerns about this, you can model the proposed opening in a box modeling program that designs bandpass subs.

So that tells you what size your manifold should be. Don't know how I missed part of that the first time. But,...

13) Is there an optimal design for the transition box (manifold) ?

The box should be as short and compact in length/height as possible. Designs like Tom Nousaine's TSTSTW or 12 Shiva's Dancing have cancellation issues due to the arrival times between the drivers nearest the listener vs those farther away. In certain circumstances these cancellations are beneficial, under normal circumstances they should be avoided. The ideal box is a single driver in height/length. An example of this would be a 18"-20" cube with drivers mounted facing in from the sides. This design allows 2 15" drivers to be used initially, and 2 more drivers could be add later if additional output is needed/wanted. For more 'hands-on' information about manifolds please read the Generic Design/Build/Install pages


This says that the ideal manifold size suggests a box for 2 and 4 drivers is an 18"-20" cube. That's only 400 square inches max for the manifold opening which is fine for two subs. But for four 15" drivers, the opening should be a little over 700 square inches.

And if you look half way down This Page (http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/page2IB-IBmanifold.html) you will see a part titled "Designing and building the box". That is where they recommend 3/4" MDF and 3/4" OSB.

In the same section they also mention this size for four 15"s with 16" OC like Steve will be using:

One can make a 16" cube and mount 4-15"s in it. This is absolutely the smallest opening possible without detrimental bandpass effects occurring. If possible, a better choice is a rectangular manifold, that's external dimensions are 17.5" X 32", with a corresponding 14.5" X 30" opening.

And this is why I already informed Swithey how to build his IB, sometimes alittle too much info is a bad thing. 4 -15"s in a small perfectly cubed square (beyond the studs, hopefully joists in the attic in Switheys theater) is his best option. Maybe someone will chime in like an acoustical engineer.

This method has been proven, no matter square or rectangle, at some point some drivers are going to be further away and perfect cubes with drivers directly across cancel out mechanical forces on the manifold structure, I would be very nervous placing the drivers in random rectangles with random openings. might as well build a ported sub and throw it in the room.

The first paragraph seems correct, the second one though.......not even sure what they are getting at

Steve - does the room/space where the sub woofers attached to the manifold have to be the same size as the theater room?

Steve - does the room/space where the sub woofers attached to the manifold have to be the same size as the theater room?

The area for the rear wave should be 10 times the total Vas (a measurement you will find in the specs for a driver) of all your drivers. Some info suggests that if you can do at least 4 times Vas it will still be better than a box sub but 10 (or larger) is the optimal target.

Toxarch -- great discussion.
MarkP -- Keep the comments coming :)

My "plan" was to build (2) manifolds -- each with (2) 15" drivers. This would allow me to separate them to help reduce nulls. And contradictory to MarkPs suggestion, I really want to put each pair of 15” woofs on their own amp channel. The reason being is the EQ I have has (2) channels which will allow me to adjust each pair independently to "hopefully" get a flatter room response. But... that may be a discussion for another day.

I came up with (2) ideas. Idea #1 is my original idea but with a slightly larger manifold. I can cut the studs almost any way since the wall is not really load-bearing (its just a pony wall I added after the fact). Option #2 utilizes a larger enclosure (fits perfectly between (2) 16” OC studs). Suggestions?

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/IB-Config1.jpg

Steve, the way I understand it, bigger is better when it comes to manifolds and openings. So that implies Option 2.

However, why not just go with one manifold and not have to deal with the potential issues of two subs - especially, when they can't be moved?

The area for the rear wave should be 10 times the total Vas (a measurement you will find in the specs for a driver) of all your drivers. Some info suggests that if you can do at least 4 times Vas it will still be better than a box sub but 10 (or larger) is the optimal target.
I'll be at something like 16x VAS in my small attic space since VAS for my (4) drivers (http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp15_premium_series_15_inch_DIY_subwoofer_information.html) is 21cu/ft.

Steve, the way I understand it, bigger is better when it comes to manifolds and openings. So that implies Option 2.

However, why not just go with one manifold and not have to deal with the potential issues of two subs - especially, when they can't be moved?
A single manifold is an idea but that would require me to go higher in the wall. I was worried about the sound wave pounding the screen material and causing waves during heavy bass scenes. Separate enclosures allow me to still have the drivers fire at each other but keep everything below the screen.

Hmm -- maybe I should only go with (2) drivers, a LARGE manifold and call it a day :rolleyes: ;)

I will say that if what I have is a bandwidth sub then a bandwidth sub is what you want Swithey, I was told by people that design speakers, subwoofers that the most important thing was to make the box as perfectly square as you can on the sides and the length didnt matter as much

An IB can hit lower notes than a bandpass sub can.

And this is why I already informed Swithey how to build his IB, sometimes alittle too much info is a bad thing. 4 -15"s in a small perfectly cubed square (beyond the studs, hopefully joists in the attic in Switheys theater) is his best option. Maybe someone will chime in like an acoustical engineer.

This method has been proven, no matter square or rectangle, at some point some drivers are going to be further away and perfect cubes with drivers directly across cancel out mechanical forces on the manifold structure, I would be very nervous placing the drivers in random rectangles with random openings. might as well build a ported sub and throw it in the room.

Building a perfectly cubed manifold is not simple. Joists and studs get in the way of the speakers. Easy to do for a movable sub, not really possible for an IB.

And yes, I know the opposing arrangement of the subs is to cancel out mechanical forces of the subs. But while that is good for your structure, it's already been proven by the IB cult that an IB array can outperform an IB manifold. The opening sizes are not random. They should be equal to the total area of the speakers or bigger. And thowing in a ported sub would be just above building a bandpass IB like your small cube IB would create. If you want a bandpass IB for your room, then go ahead and use it. But it's not a true IB and you are missing out.

Steve - does the room/space where the sub woofers attached to the manifold have to be the same size as the theater room?

No, the size of the IB space is determined by the speakers. Take 10 times the total Vas of all the speakers in the array of manifold. This space or larger is considered optimal for the IB. You can use a space down to 4 times the Vas and it will still work better than a regular sub.

Where is the rear wave going, I thought it was going into the attic. Are you saying your going into your garage? Option 1 looks good.

Its not that I wouldnt have seperate IBs and youre going to equalize so you should be fine unless ofcourse you get the same results from the 2 seperate locations and from your drawings this looks possible, when I was discussing seperate IBs we decided to try one with the option of seperates in the front and rear of room and equalize, 99.9% of IB sub owners have 1 IB and they perform, we found this to be true in our situation, so for now, we are sticking with it since theres not a bad seat in the theater and the D-Box gives more than adequate tactile for concussion effects if a null exsists. The IB alone is so powerful, its light years above moving a very large sealed or ported sub/s around the room.

One thing about the Cult website is, these guys are just playing around trying different designs and which one is the acoustic engineer of the bunch? Is it the one that made the site, a member of the site, are these theorys checked by Montlick or Rives or any other acoustic engineer? the site has been around for years now and most are perfect squares with 4 drivers whether its innys or outys and a large portion are in the attic hence Infinite, not sure how projecting rear waves into the basement as powerful as these things are could be infinite unless your theater is made from concrete including all the ductwork, doors and such. In the attic the rear waves exit the roof vents into the atmosphere hopefully. Remember, this thing is going to shake the entire home, so if the theater is shaking and the garage or basement is shaking out of phase, what keeps the rear waves out of the room? A pony wall?

Steve, you have attic space above your theater. Have you considered that as an option for a large manifold? They recommend the IB be close to the center of the room and even with the front baffles of your LCRs if possible. Only way to do that is the ceiling. Course, since part of your room's ceiling is vaulted, I would guess you don't have a lot of room in the attic above the room.

If that's not an option, I would suggest one deep manifold close to the center of the screen wall, maybe offset one stud. That is of course if you have room for it. You really need to test the sub in the room first before deciding where to install it.

Maybe this is an option?

And yes, I know the opposing arrangement of the subs is to cancel out mechanical forces of the subs. But while that is good for your structure, it's already been proven by the IB cult that an IB array can outperform an IB manifold. The opening sizes are not random. They should be equal to the total area of the speakers or bigger. And thowing in a ported sub would be just above building a bandpass IB like your small cube IB would create. If you want a bandpass IB for your room, then go ahead and use it. But it's not a true IB and you are missing out.
From what I gather from your staement above, is the array you described something like what I have pictured below? Way back in the beginning this was my plan but I thought the manifold was better performance? Also, LOWER is better so I want to be sure I build something that performs that way. I'm sure Mark's rocks his room and if I built one like that, I would probably get really nice performance as well. I'm flexible here but just want to get the best performance I can out of the setup because -- well, because I'm a bass-nut.. or rather just nuts I guess :D And if I'm nuts, ebr is borderline insane with those HUGE 18s :eek: ;)

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/IB-Config2.jpg

From what I gather from your staement above, is the array you described something like what I have pictured below? Way back in the beginning this was my plan but I thought the manifold was better performance?

Yes, that arrangement should be fine as an IB line array. I'm no pro, just coming up with my own design, so you may want to ask the cult or a pro. Look at this IB Cult page (http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/page2IB-IBmanifold.html) under the part titled "Line array vs manifold.....?" There they say that a line array offers the best performance. I think the main reasons for a manifold is to cancel the little mechanical forces, hide the speakers out of view and to keep the speaker faces perpendicular to the ground in ceiling and floor mounts. They also keep also the sound from the sub coming from a single location to limit nulls in the room.

Where is the rear wave going, I thought it was going into the attic. Are you saying your going into your garage? Option 1 looks good.
The rear wave is going to a small attic pocket behind the front wall. The roofline continues down to the floor. Its about 341 cu/ft back there. This attic space (as well as the actual HT) are above the 3-car garage.

A pony wall?
Maybe not the best term to describe the wall. I just built another wall behind the existing room wall. Because of the roofline, it is shorter than the room wall. Here is an early shot before the drywall went up and before I rebuilt the HT "room" wall:
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Source/New_Wall_Studs.JPG

Guys, remember when I said too much info may be a bad thing .............well consider this

When someone mentions a Line array is " better" and goes "lower" according to some guys at the Cult also what should be known is that you will intesify VIBRATION of not only the baffle but the entire object the array is attached to, mainly the entire room. Some may think "COOL, more vibration!" but this is not good vibrations , this is rattling and structure dedrigration rattling which a manifold completely compensates for. Bandpass that cannot be felt or heard, do you really miss them? My non IB with a 24" x 24" opening ( by the way my acoustic guy got a good chuckle when I told him I didnt have an IB and was missing out on all that 10hz action my non IB produces and said something to the effect of folks having enough knowledge to make them dangerous) seems to perform very well with acoustical loading, near field measurements and roll off at lower frequency. While I may be cancelling a certain bandwith which can be theorhetically measured on paper and has been done, it is a non issue in Home Theater performance, my opening is certainly large enough and would have to be shrunk down to say a 10" ( OK maybe 14") opening to have substaintial effects like some people are leading you to believe. 10hz can be measured but not heard and has been measured here, the way things are being stated here they are making you believe you can go lower even if your sub isnt capable of achieving 10hz without giving you all the info about an array and the way it works and causing vibrational stresses on your baffle/ drivers ( your pony wall and anything attached will be flexing and vibrating causing rattles I dont think you will want, massively stiff bracing should be used when considering a line array since the forces will be pushing on the structure and mechanical vibration might be an issue)

Which one of the folks at the Cult is an acoustic engineer and have their facts been tested by an acoustical engineer and what equiptment was used in testing? Links please.

And before someone posts a link about a line array not having vibration problems because of the weight of the house itself and all thats happening is the vibration is in the driver itself and translates to sound they are correct but..........it still vibrates the heck out of the structure no matter what " they say" if its not built substaintial. A manifold can be single layer ply with force compensation and all this bandpass issue is directly related to the exact size of the box, big opening, small box = no problem. Line array youre basically shooting 4 drivers at different positions they cant all come out of the same hole) into your room, Can anyone see what problem this may have other than the vibration issues

Can anyone see what problem this may have other than the vibration issues

A giant Home Theater Potato Canon? :D

Actually thats a problem with the Manifold system, thanks for the idea. off to find a 24" tator

Forget the tator - punkin.

Perhaps EBR's manifold could be entered into this:

http://www.punkinchunkin.com/

(Which I have attended five times)

LCR Update…

I got a lot accomplished today and had to stop because I think the router noise was making my neighbors mad (especially after midnight).

Okay – let’s reference the model for my speaker frame. This was built by Mike (m1ke323) over at HTGuide.com. What I’ve been working on is the curved braces/shelves you see inside the speaker (top, middle and bottom). I received a template from Mike that I used to make the 21 braces I needed for the (3) front speakers.
NOTE: These are NOT my speakers but are used as a design reference for my speakers
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Dayton-3Way-Mike.jpg


Step 1: Lay the template on each piece of wood and trace the outline with a pencil
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCR-BraceUncut.JPG

Step 2: Use a bandsaw (a normal jigsaw will do the trick as well) to cut off all the excess wood along the sides. The goal here is to get as close to the pencil line without going over. This makes it easier to route off the remaining material (more on that later)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-ScrollSawCut.JPG


Step 3: Use a jigsaw to cut out the (2) holes in each brace.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-CutOutHoles1.jpg
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-CutOutHoles2.jpg


Step 4: Route smooth the edges and holes in each brace with a router trim bit. The trick to this is to use the “template” Mike sent me as a guide and allow the router trim bit to follow the contour of Mike’s brace against the one I made. The key is to keep them stuck together so the “template” does not slide around and mess of your board. I used some removable double-stick tape I bought at Michael’s along with clamps to hold it in place. I highly recommend the tape because I ruined my 1st one last night because it moved and I did not notice it until it was too late. And.. the end result is a perfect copy.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BraceRouting1.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BraceRouting2.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BraceRouting3.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRs-BraceRouting4.JPG

Hi swithey, I am so impressed with the handy man skills you have. I will ask you one of this days once I start my home theater. By the way, I already moved to the new house August 30. Sigh, :( I haven't started the HT project yet but guess what, :) I've started the diy whole house security and it's working pretty well. Way to go Swithey!!!

OK, grab one of your subs not mounted in a box, connect it to an amp and crank it up. You will feel that it's not that much vibration, especially when you consider it's mounted in a wall. When considering house vibration due to speaker excursion, a line array with 4 speakers is no different than 4 box subs in the front of your room. The 4 subs will shake the house just as much as a line array will. You will get much more shake from the audio out of the speaker than you will from the speaker moving. A sub with a large excursion 18" sub moves maybe a liter of air? That's not really much at all.

When I tell people I am building/built my own speakers they are always so surprised

This may be off topic... I like building speakers too. But I have given up on a good sounding passive crossover. I've been using active systems for years. The problem is expense in a 7.1 system. 22 amplifiers, not to mention the crossovers and cables.

What do you use for crossovers? I would love to build my own surround speakers and already have all the Dynaudio components.

BTW, I'm doing an IB linear array of 8 15" Altec 416's. I'm a vintage audio buff. 2 of these woofers make the house creak in 8 cu ft vented boxes, so we'll see...

OK, grab one of your subs not mounted in a box, connect it to an amp and crank it up. You will feel that it's not that much vibration, especially when you consider it's mounted in a wall. When considering house vibration due to speaker excursion, a line array with 4 speakers is no different than 4 box subs in the front of your room. The 4 subs will shake the house just as much as a line array will. You will get much more shake from the audio out of the speaker than you will from the speaker moving. A sub with a large excursion 18" sub moves maybe a liter of air? That's not really much at all.
That's exactly what I've been recently pondering. If there is (nearly) as much SPL off the back wave as the front wave, then wouldn't that automatically cancel the vibration out to a certain extent?

However... Maybe once you separate the front and rear waves, that's where the power comes in. Although, there's no back pressure... Hmmm... (thinking out loud) :D

This may be off topic... I like building speakers too. But I have given up on a good sounding passive crossover. I've been using active systems for years. The problem is expense in a 7.1 system. 22 amplifiers, not to mention the crossovers and cables.
You don't need to use 22 amplifiers, only 22 channels worth - three 7 channel amps, and whatever your sub uses (rack or plate). Also, since you're only driving a subset of the drivers of each speaker, you can use less powerful amps and/or varying sizes. For example, I've considered using three Outlaw 7075s, which would be about $2K. Or you could upgrade one of them (for the woofers) to a 7125 for an extra $300. Not too shabby or intimidating to the wallet from that perspective.

Cabling is a bit more, but you can run it all at once. If you get three rolls, you can tie them together on one end to pull them through. Cost is not that much when you buy bulk 12AWG (or whatever).

External crossovers are $250 for the Behringer DCX2496 that can handle three channels IIRC, so three of those (or one and two stereo crossovers at $100 each).

So with that you have about a $2500 cost to go external, but in return have the ultimate in flexibility (crossover points, parametric EQ, not to mention RS-232 connectivity to control them together), and great amplification (275W x 7 in the example above). If you're going DIY, you'll save more than that as opposed to buying. So you're just buying a lot more performance for a similar (most likely less) price.

You don't need to use 22 amplifiers, only 22 channels worth


Yes, I realize that, but it was still intimidating. I'll look into the Outlaw amps.

External crossovers are $250 for the Behringer DCX2496


I use the Behringer for my current 2 channel setup. I like it a lot. I have an old Yamaha P-2200 I'll use for the subs. It's a very reliable warhorse.

Glad to hear someone's out there who doesn't think I'm insane for even considering tri-amping a 7.1 system.

Any suggestions if I want to use passive crossovers? Sorry to co-opt this thread but I got very useful input. Thank you!

Speaker Update!!

Hey everyone, I finally got all the wood cut for my (3) speakers and did a quick dry-fit this afternoon (only 2 show in the pics below -- I didn't have enough clamps). The 1st thing my wife said was that they were larger than she expected. They are 43.5” tall and about 16” deep. I still have to put in the vertical brace for the mid/tweet area between the top of the cabinet and the shelf directly under that (the shelf with the single cutout). Exerything is Baltic Birch plywood except the very top piece which is MDF. Why MDF -- just ran out of BB and figured it was not worth the expense to buy an entire sheet for (3) small pieces. The front baffel will be (2) layers of material - 1 layer of BB (what you see now) and a layer of 3/4" MDF (because it routes so easily).

I plan to route the holes for the drivers before I glue it up – just in case I mess up I have not wasted the entire build. Anyway – I’m going back to work but wanted to share a few pics of my progress :)

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRBuild-Side.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRBuild-Top.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRBuild-Back1.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRBuild-Back2.JPG

Speaker Update!!

Hey everyone ....I still have to put in the vertical brace for the mid/tweet area between the top of the cabinet and the shelf directly under that (the shelf with the single cutout).


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRBuild-Back2.JPG

Looking good. :) :) Are you going to dado the horizontal braces to fit the vertical brace ?

Hey MarkP...

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1306/utcustomwl9.jpg

Speaker Update!!

Hey everyone, I finally got all the wood cut for my (3) speakers and did a quick dry-fit this afternoon.

Wow, those look great! Can't wait to see the final product :) Nice job.

Mike

Looking good. :) :) Are you going to dado the horizontal braces to fit the vertical brace ?

[CENTER]Hey MarkP...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/utcustomwl9.jpg

Yeah, yeah......

Great game, nice win! Kinda wish you had gone with your other kicker ;) Im not a fan of the timeout to ice the kicker, had we saved that timeout we probably could have attempted closer than a 58 yarder at the end instead of a hail mary.

See ya in KC Dec. 2, I dont think we will fumble this one away. How many games have your players been knelt down praying on the sidelines the last 3 minutes?

I think you guys got a winner in your frosh QB, kids got ice in his veins, got knocked around pretty good and maintained composer, any other QB and we march in the 4th.

Oh yeah, speakers look fantastic!

If youre cutting the driver holes last, dont forget all the wiring and felt first, even before gluing on the last side.

If youre felting , a good way to mark where to put the felt on the last side is tack the side on first and mark all the bracing then attach the opposite side and felt, then just felt right on your pencil marks

Glad you went with Baltic birch, had these been MDF, you would have needed a crane to move them.

Also dont worry about messing up the jasper jigging, if you mess up get some wood bondo ( not wood filler, but the resin type bondo) and just putty knife it in/on the mistake, wait 10 minutes, sand and try again, I have built dozens of speakers and still miscalculate, test on a scrap, place your driver in upside down for the recess

Those speakers are coming along nicely.

On your IB, I would heed Mark and not do an array on your screen wall. Those are high excursion drivers you have there and they are going to be shaking like mad. You don't want your screen shaking with them. I think a bigger manifold and outlet is going to be preferable, but, then again, I don't have any practical experience with this yet.

On the rear wave area, I do not believe it has to be truly "infinite" (vented to outside) to qualifiy as an infinite baffle design. As long as you have 10x+ vas it should behave properly. Just like the opening of the manifold where, at some point the bandpass effects will be detrimental, as long as it is "big enough" you should get the proper performance.

I have not, however, been able to nail down what, exactly, is "big enough" on the outlet. I know optimal is total Sd of all drivers but no one seems to know at what point it becomes too small. I do see a lot of cube designs with openings that appear much smaller than total Sd so I think that is an area where there is some fudge room but you should go as big as you can.

I don't know of anyone who has A/B'd different designs in the same room so most of this is paper-based conjecture, I assume. I like the fact that I'm going to be able to A/B my SVS and the IB in the exact same space. Then I will at least know exactly what I'm getting.

Yeah, yeah......

Great game, nice win! Kinda wish you had gone with your other kicker ;) Im not a fan of the timeout to ice the kicker, had we saved that timeout we probably could have attempted closer than a 58 yarder at the end instead of a hail mary.

See ya in KC Dec. 2, I dont think we will fumble this one away. How many games have your players been knelt down praying on the sidelines the last 3 minutes?

I think you guys got a winner in your frosh QB, kids got ice in his veins, got knocked around pretty good and maintained composer, any other QB and we march in the 4th.


:D :D :D :D

This may be off topic... I like building speakers too. But I have given up on a good sounding passive crossover. I've been using active systems for years. The problem is expense in a 7.1 system. 22 amplifiers, not to mention the crossovers and cables.

What do you use for crossovers? I would love to build my own surround speakers and already have all the Dynaudio components.

BTW, I'm doing an IB linear array of 8 15" Altec 416's. I'm a vintage audio buff. 2 of these woofers make the house creak in 8 cu ft vented boxes, so we'll see...
All my XOs are just the "normal" type. I contemplated active but decided on these. I do like the ability to "tune on demand" with the active XOs, though. I hired Rick Craig of Selah Audio to design by XOs but I designated which "brand" of components to use. All the Caps are Jantzen (from Parts Express), the Inductors are Sledgehammer and Sidewinder (from Madisound) and the Resistors are Mills (from Parts Express). I would consider these premium XO parts but you can easily spend less or more depending on your budget. The XOs for all (3) fronts totaled about $370 + shipping. The side surrounds XO parts totaled around $125 for all (4) speakers. They were a lot less since they are only a 2-way design.

BTW -- I love the tweets that DynAudio used. I listed to one of their Audience Special 25 bookshelf speakers a while back loved the smooth sound. It uses the same tweeter as their higher-end Contour line. But at $1700/ea (if I remember correctly), I had to pass.

DynAudio Special 25
http://www.dynaudiousa.com/products/photo/cont/s25/front25.jpg

And that IB array should work out well! Please report back on the results.

You don't need to use 22 amplifiers, only 22 channels worth - three 7 channel amps, and whatever your sub uses (rack or plate). Also, since you're only driving a subset of the drivers of each speaker, you can use less powerful amps and/or varying sizes. For example, I've considered using three Outlaw 7075s, which would be about $2K. Or you could upgrade one of them (for the woofers) to a 7125 for an extra $300. Not too shabby or intimidating to the wallet from that perspective.

So with that you have about a $2500 cost to go external, but in return have the ultimate in flexibility (crossover points, parametric EQ, not to mention RS-232 connectivity to control them together), and great amplification (275W x 7 in the example above). If you're going DIY, you'll save more than that as opposed to buying. So you're just buying a lot more performance for a similar (most likely less) price.
Tim,

You got it all figured out. That Outlaw gear is supposed to be really nice. If I get a separate 7-channel amp, Outlaw is one of my top choices. Now all you need to do it sell you Studio 100s and Studio CC470. And...with that money, you can build (7) DIY speakers and probably still have money left over to buy a few amps :D

Looking good. :) :) Are you going to dado the horizontal braces to fit the vertical brace ?
Already done. I plan to start cuting the driver holes this evening (I have 12 to go). My garage floor will look like a sawmill when I'm done.

BTW -- I asked my neighbors if they heard anything the night I was routing until nearly 1AM. They said they did not hear a thing -- YEA! We'll see how late I can last tonight. I need to watch myself because I tend to make mistakes when I get tired.

I asked my neighbors if they heard anything the night I was routing until nearly 1AM. They said they did not hear a thing -- YEA! We'll see how late I can last tonight. I need to watch myself because I tend to make mistakes when I get tired.


The heck with the neighbors, how about the wife and kids? Can they hear the router ? That's my wife's complaint when im in the shop past 10pm.

Thanks a lot for the info on crossovers. I'll look into it and see if he can design some for me. BTW... really beautiful looking speakers you are working on.


BTW -- I love the tweets that DynAudio used. I listed to one of their Audience Special 25 bookshelf speakers a while back loved the smooth sound. It uses the same tweeter as their higher-end Contour line. But at $1700/ea (if I remember correctly), I had to pass.

I love the Dynaudio components too. Unfortunately for the DIY'er they stopped selling their components to the general public. I combed through eBay and assembled quite a collection of Dynaudio drivers for my HT. The sets I'm using are exactly what's in the Cello Stradivari Legends! (see attachement) Prolly overkill, but I REALLY love the sound in my big tri-amp'd Dynaudio based boxes.


And that IB array should work out well! Please report back on the results.
I will... but it'll be a while. You know how contruction is. They just finished installing the rough-in waste plumbing and the roof sheeting's on. 6 months? Mr. Optomistic here.

Thanks again.

Hey guys, I decided to call it a short night. I have a sinus headache and just can't concentrate.

However, I did manage to get the driver locations marked and the baffles temporarily attached together for driver routing. I'll try and tackle that tomorrow eve. I figure it will take me about 2-3 hours to route all 12 holes.

Here is a pic of the BB 1st baffles attached to the oversized 3/4" MDF 2nd baffles. My plan is to cut out the driver holes in both pieces at the same time so that everything is lined up perfectly. Also, the (6) small 1 1/4" finish nails I used to keep them aligned (nailed in from the backside) will also act as as "pins" when I re-attached them later for gluing. I think it will work out well. Also, if I do make a mistake when routing out the driver holes, I'll just need to re-make the baffle instead of the entire speaker. It reduces the pressure I put on myself just a little :rolleyes:

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCR-BafflesReadyToRoute.JPG

The design of your speaker is really nice - can't wait to see them finished....
Did I get it right that your are hiding these behind a false wall? :eek:

Go ahead with your great work!

The design of your speaker is really nice - can't wait to see them finished....
Did I get it right that your are hiding these behind a false wall? :eek:

Go ahead with your great work!
You and my wife feel the same way. My "idea" is maybe someday they may make it to a study or living room where they will be seen. Or if I ever sell them, it migh be easier to sell if they have that "professional" look.

And thanks for the compliment.

Hey Steve.

Here's a link to a thread on Audio Circle showing Rick's new babies. Rear ported woof, ribbon tweet, open baffle on the Accuton midrange.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=32736.msg290820;topicseen#new

Bryan

Speaker Update…

The holes are cut for all the drivers but the tweeters. Hey, they are actually starting to look like speakers -- can you believe that? I’ll try and get the tweets done tomorrow eve if possible. I'm out of pocket the rest of the week and weekend.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCR-BafflesCut1.JPG

Hey Steve.

Here's a link to a thread on Audio Circle showing Rick's new babies. Rear ported woof, ribbon tweet, open baffle on the Accuton midrange.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=32736.msg290820;topicseen#new

Bryan
Those things had to sound very nice. And what beautiful veneer he used. Definitely top notch!

I hope Rick won't mind me sharing these pics with the AVS Group.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/RMAF-SelahAudio1.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/RMAF-SelahAudio2.jpg

Well, I'm sure AudioCircle won't mind ;-)

Bryan

I hope thats your whole baffle and thats not gluing to the front Baltic birch piece thats not routed yet, if so then you will have a heck of a time punching those holes and it sort of defeats the purpose of setting up once and cutting once. Maybe I am way off and you somehow tacked them to your speakers and then routed all the way through.

The nice thing about punching the holes at the very end is that everythings done , sanded and you find the perfect center then you do all your flush mount routes for every driver on every speaker, then do the final hole completely through on all holes on all speakers. Its just a time thing and setting up the jasper jig 4- 6 times instead of 8 -12 and finding all new centers or nailing a scrap and hoping you find perfect center again.

I hope thats your whole baffle and thats not gluing to the front Baltic birch piece thats not routed yet, if so then you will have a heck of a time punching those holes and it sort of defeats the purpose of setting up once and cutting once. Maybe I am way off and you somehow tacked them to your speakers and then routed all the way through.

The nice thing about punching the holes at the very end is that everythings done , sanded and you find the perfect center then you do all your flush mount routes for every driver on every speaker, then do the final hole completely through on all holes on all speakers. Its just a time thing and setting up the jasper jig 4- 6 times instead of 8 -12 and finding all new centers or nailing a scrap and hoping you find perfect center again.
Mark,

I guess I should have taken a side and rear view pics (I thought about it after I put everything away). The BB is on the back side of the MDF and is attached with (6) small 1.25" strategically placed finishing nails. I routed through both pieces for some very smooth and perfect holes. The plan is to pry the apart (which should be pretty easy), attached the BB baffle to the frame, add my sides then add the MDF front baffle. The nails (driven in from the back side) will act as "pins" to align the MDF baffle so all the holes line up. I'll then clean up the edges of the baffle with a router and sander. Finally, I'll attach the top layer 1/8" masonite on the sides, top and bottom to give the veneer a smooth finish to adhere.

I just did not have it in me to attach everything then route the holes. I do not trust myself to accidentally put the hole in the wrong place (Bondo won't help too much there), wrong size or somehow the router hick-ups and a hole is ruined. Call me a wimp but my wife is hounding me to get these things done ASAP so I can get back on the room and get it finished. I want to eliminate (or at least reduce) any setbacks I might encounter.

Speaker Update…

Tonight I routed the holes for the tweeters and did a ¾” round-over on the inside of the tweet and mid and a 1/2" roundover on the (2) 8" woofs (I did not have enough room to do a 3/4" roundover on the woofs).

Unfortunately, everything will come to a halt as of tonight because I need to get ready for a Y-Princess campout this weekend. I’ll try to resume on Sunday and get the frames put together then :)

Here are the baffles with the Baltic Birch attached to the back. I will separate the BB from the MDF then apply the BB to the frame.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCR-BafflesCut2.JPG http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCR-BafflesCut3.JPG

Nice!

Got a couple garbage bags of dust yet? When I do these the boxes are all done and I use a flush cut bit to clean all the edges of the cabinets and then cut baffles, then do any roundovers to the exterior cabinet and it always amazes me of the mountain of dust left. Not just dust, but nasty MDF dust

Nice!

Got a couple garbage bags of dust yet? When I do these the boxes are all done and I use a flush cut bit to clean all the edges of the cabinets and then cut baffles, then do any roundovers to the exterior cabinet and it always amazes me of the mountain of dust left. Not just dust, but nasty MDF dust
I had about 3/4" deep of solid saw dust on Tuesday night (after cutting 9 holes) for about an 8' radius. I did have to empty my vacuum about 1/2 through that cleanup -- what a mess. Last night was minimal but still messy. My "person" got the most messy cutting the 3/4" roundovers behind the driver holes -- sawdust in my mouth, hair, face, arms, shirt, shorts, etc -- YUCK! I'm sure I looked like a tan fluffy chicken :rolleyes: I do prefer the BB sawdust as it has larger pieces and cleans up a bit easier. It also has a bit more texture and flavor over the standard run-of-the-mill MDF dust :D

Look for some updated pics on Sunday for the frame. It should be a nice milestone (for me) based on all the work I've put into these things so far.

EDIT: Oh and Mark, thanks for the suggestion to buy the 3/4" straight bit. It has worked out perfectly and saved me a ton of time.

Unfortunately, everything will come to a halt as of tonight because I need to get ready for a Y-Princess campout this weekend.

Sounds like a bunch of free labor this weekend. ;)

So why did you add the roundover around the speaker holes?

Sounds like a bunch of free labor this weekend. ;)

So why did you add the roundover around the speaker holes?
Should be a fun weekend. This particular camp does not allow you to park you car right next to the cabin.. so there will a little walking to do. Did I mention that these cabins have AC/Heat, refrigerators, stove and a shower with hot water? Man -- we're really roughing it :rolleyes: I guess since I'm going with a 6 year old, I need to make sure she has all the conveniences of home :) This sure is different from the camping I did as a kid. We were happy just to find a level place without rocks for the tent.

On the roundover, I am not an expert on this but it is suppose to reduce the reflection of sound around the speaker itself which "in theory" gives the speaker a cleaner/more natural sound. It seems to be most important for the tweeter (because the waves are smaller) but I went ahead and did it to all the drivers since I was there anyway. I'm sure there are some speaker building experts that can give you a better explanation.

...
On the roundover, I am not an expert on this but it is suppose to reduce the reflection of sound around the speaker itself which "in theory" gives the speaker a cleaner/more natural sound. It seems to be most important for the tweeter (because the waves are smaller) but I went ahead and did it to all the drivers since I was there anyway. I'm sure there are some speaker building experts that can give you a better explanation.

So the drivers will be recessed behind the baffleboard...?

So the drivers will be recessed behind the baffleboard...?
No -- not exactly. They will be flush with the front of the outside speaker baffle. Because the tweeter body will be about 90% inside the 1.5" thick baffle, the roundover makes the depth around the speaker housing more like 3/4" thick. This in turn will produce less sound reflection and hopefully give a better sound.

Why not just make the entire speaker baffle thickness only 3/4" -- someone might ask? The thicker baffle makes for a more rigid and solid speaker housing which is important for sound quality.

My understanding is that the internal roundover is to allow the driver to "breath." The Dayton drivers have a very large magnet/shielding housing, and when the baffle is increased larger than 3/4" it is necessary to roundover or chamfer the backside of the baffle. The one exception is the tweeter I believe, because that is a sealed unit.

On the roundover, I am not an expert on this but it is suppose to reduce the reflection of sound around the speaker itself which "in theory" gives the speaker a cleaner/more natural sound. It seems to be most important for the tweeter (because the waves are smaller) but I went ahead and did it to all the drivers since I was there anyway. I'm sure there are some speaker building experts that can give you a better explanation.

I am not an expert either, but here are my 2 cents....

The idea of a good speaker is to reproduce linear sound and especially in the high frequencies it is important to avoid reflections of the speaker itself. So the critical parts of a speaker are the mid and high drivers. Therefore the front plane of the drivers should be on the same level as the front face of the speaker to have no edges around the driver. Further the edges of the speaker next to the mid and high driver should not have an 90 degree corner - either make it 45 degrees or even better round it of. This effect will start at around 8 kHz and gets worse with higher frequencies - and yes, you can measure the difference (it is not only imagination) :)

I think the person was asking about the inside of the speaker, not the front of the baffle. Same theory though, sharp 90 degree turns arent a great thing but if he chooses to felt the insides this will solve the standing and reflective waves. I wonder to myself if Swithey is tired of hearing about felt yet? I wouldnt be harping so much if I knew someone didnt tell him it wasnt a big deal and wouldnt make much difference when its probably the cheapest way to get the best performance. Proved and tested

I think the person was asking about the inside of the speaker, not the front of the baffle. Same theory though, sharp 90 degree turns arent a great thing but if he chooses to felt the insides this will solve the standing and reflective waves. I wonder to myself if Swithey is tired of hearing about felt yet? I wouldnt be harping so much if I knew someone didnt tell him it wasnt a big deal and wouldnt make much difference when its probably the cheapest way to get the best performance. Proved and tested
I'm still thinking about the felt.

Mark - what else would you stuff inside the speaker (assuming I lined the entire speaker with the felt) in both tweet/mid section and woof section(s)?

nothing other than the fiberfill recommended

Hey Steve - did the girls tie you up and leave you in the woods last weekend?

Bryan

Hey Steve - did the girls tie you up and leave you in the woods last weekend?

Bryan
We had a great time. The cabins were not as plush as they were at the last campout. I use "plush" loosely :rolleyes: No heat so the mornings were a little cold. The girls had a blast. One bad part was there were a few loud snorers in our cabin :( Luckily I remembered my ear plugs which gave me a 33db noise reduction :)
http://www.hearos.com/images/products/hearos-02826.jpg

As far as the speakers, nothing has been done since last Wed. Life has gotten a bit busy and tonight is no different (for obvious reasons). I should resume tomorrow eve and get the frames assembled. That should be pretty easy.

More soon...

Steve,

Those Y-Princess 'Outings' are a blast and I know what you mean about those cabins. The ones we have used (Camp Tockwogh in MD) were very 'rustic'. Stuart Little and his friend helped keep place tidy at night picking up all those crumbs. And one year my eldest had a black rat snake curled up under her mattress :eek: And I don't think I can ever go on one of those events without my earplugs!!!!! If it isn't the snoring keeping you awake its the damn nature waking you up!!!

But where else can the girls play with fire, climb trees and do all the stuff there mums won't let them do :D

Now I know these woofers have loads of manly grunts etc. but what happened to the star ceiling :)

Cheers,
Mark

Mark,

Luckily no rodents in our cabin. I think the girls might have freaked out if they did saw something like that. I was just trying to keep them out of the Poison Ivy. And I follow you about "What happens at the campout, stays at the campout" :D

The star ceiling was moved further down the list (because of the wife of course). After I finish the speakers, I will be building the rear cabinet. This cabinet will house the projector, act as a tuned bass trap and also work as a rear sound diffusor. I'm still working on the design plans for that.

Well, at least once the speakers are done, you'll have something nice to listen to while you're doing the other things... You might just change your mind about how much music listening you'll do in there...

Bryan

And what king of music you listen too if you like some rock n roll thats not recorded well. Nice speakers are like large screens watching SD TV, If is not good going in, its really going to be bad coming out where as compared to a normal car stereo, where it all sounds pretty good considering.

Since I started buiding speakers, my musical tastes have changed dramatically, my rock n roll is more Dave Matthews, I still put in the occasional Metallica ( and Justice for All) when I want to get something done fast but have a list of stuff I used to like that is so horrible sounding its moved to cars and collecting dust.

bpape -- I'm sure it will increase my music listening time. That is what I was hoping.

MarkP -- Yes, I've heard that. I'm sure some of my favorite classics will sound like crap on these speakers. I'll keep the BOSE around when I really need to listen to them :D ;)

I'm sure everyone is wondering about the speakers. Sadly, nothing has been done :( At the moment, there are a lot of family duties that are taking all my time. I'm shooting to get the frames built this weekend if I can carve away some time.

Sadly, nothing has been done :( At the moment, there are a lot of family duties that are taking all my time. I'm shooting to get the frames built this weekend if I can carve away some time.
Isn't that what almost everyone here is experiencing? :rolleyes:

There is a very thin line between working on your HT project and on the other side spending enough time with your family (at least if you are married) to keep them happy and not work too much against your constructions ideas....

Ok Steve - get that speakers finished....I am really looking forward to see them in their full beauty! :)

Isn't that what almost everyone here is experiencing? :rolleyes:

There is a very thin line between working on your HT project and on the other side spending enough time with your family (at least if you are married) to keep them happy and not work too much against your constructions ideas....

Ok Steve - get that speakers finished....I am really looking forward to see them in their full beauty! :)
Good to know I'm not alone. I'll do my best to get something done this weekend! I did promise my daughter we could watch Santa Clause I and II before we go see III. I'm always looking for an excuse to use the room :D

Oh and I just pre-bought the movie "Cars" -- ships next Tuesday (I've been waiting for this one ever since I saw it at the theater). It is encoded in DD EX, so it should be fun to watch and hear in full 7.1!

Oh and I just pre-bought the movie "Cars" -- ships next Tuesday (I've been waiting for this one ever since I saw it at the theater). It is encoded in DD EX, so it should be fun to watch and hear in full 7.1!

TOTAL EYE CANDY! Can't wait to see that one. Good thing I have a 4 yr old. :D

At the moment, there are a lot of family duties that are taking all my time.I've been tending to everything besides the theatre room for the last two months. I really overdid it during the summer, and moving the reclining leather love seat into the house was the straw that broke :eek: this camel's back. Now that most of the honey-do's are finished, I can honestly feel good :p about working in the room again.

Now that most of the honey-do's are finished, I can honestly feel good :p about working in the room again.
My Honey-Do list is rather long right now. The wife is pushing me to get the HT done AND spend time with the family AND start on the honey-dos. I guess sleep is a luxury I don't need anymore ;)

BUT -- I'm glad you can finally get to re-start on the room. Please make sure you keep everyone updated.

Hire the services of Mr. Handiman (http://www.mrhandyman.com/) :D

My Honey-Do list is rather long right now. The wife is pushing me to get the HT done AND spend time with the family AND start on the honey-dos. I guess sleep is a luxury I don't need anymore ;)

Why does that sound sooooooo familiar to me? :D

My Honey-Do list is rather long right now.

Being single has its advantages...

I sent you a speaker question via PM. Didn't want to pollute your construction thread.

Thanks!

My Honey-Do list is rather long right now.

Being single has its advantages...

I sent you a speaker question via PM. Didn't want to pollute your construction thread with OT stuff.

Thanks!

Being single has its advantages...

I sent you a speaker question via PM. Didn't want to pollute your construction thread with OT stuff.

Thanks!

hmmm

Didn't want to pollute your construction thread with OT stuff. hmmm
LOL!! It does seem that this thread "slips" a bit a times. But that's part of the fun :D

DIY Speaker Update....

I finally got around to putting together the frames for my (3) LCRs. I still have more to go but I'm making progress. It's kind of nice to see them starting to take shape.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRBuilt-FrameFront1.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRBuilt-FrameFront2.JPG
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/LCRBuilt-FrameRear.JPG

More soon.

wow - really cool!

But they's shot full o' holes. ;)

Wow! Those are awesome. I bet they'll sound SWEET when they're finished. I'm green with envy :)

Mike

I never realized they were floor standers. Very nice, Steve.

But they's shot full o' holes. ;)
Now THIS is "full of holes" :D The guy Mike that built them before me made his own grills. He has access to a laser cutter.
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/5708/2003784981381975236_rs.jpg

Stainless steel to Swiss cheese in no time, huh?

Nice baffle cover. And to think these will be hidden, what a shame,

Nice to see things coming together. I know it's frustrating when you get close but other things keep you from making progress.

You'll have sound in no time.

Bryan

Now THIS is "full of holes" :D The guy Mike that built them before me made his own grills. He has access to a laser cutter.
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/5708/2003784981381975236_rs.jpg
Must be nice to have access to toys like that! :)

BTW Steve, you will have to let us know how the open box design works out for you. Seems like you will be getting all the sound from the back of the cones and the front of the cones as well. ;) Duh. Put some skins on those babys!

Thanks guys. I'll see if I can slip in a few more hours this week to get the sanding and possibly the sides cut. I have decided to get the felt -- which means I need to get it on order. I might be able to squeeze by with 2-yards but I need to re-calc that out again.

Toxarch: I have decided to make them visible in the room for a short period of time just so I can see the fruits of my labor. I know that one day they might make it to a dedicated listening room or family room (if the wife will allow) -- so the extra effort will hopefully be worth it. Honestly, now that the braces are cut and the frame is done, it will not be too much work to get them finished. Just a lot of edge routing and sanding. My garage will once again become a saw-dust pit.

Bpape: I know the day will be here soon -- but I'm anxious for it to come sooner than later.

Svanhof: You know I decided to go with the "open" design. Who cares if the XO was never designed for that purpose. It's just audio. I just LOVE the quality of the mono audio coming from the 2" driver in my clock radio. It really shines when you crank it to .7 watts :D

Swithey, it will all be worth it in the end. I am so glad I am done. It is too bad you can't hop on over and demo my room now that it is done. We watched Cars on Saturday night and it was a lot of fun. Just focus and you be done in no time... :)

Swithey, it will all be worth it in the end. I am so glad I am done. It is too bad you can't hop on over and demo my room now that it is done. We watched Cars on Saturday night and it was a lot of fun. Just focus and you be done in no time... :)
It would be nice if we lived closer as well. Who knows, the fam may take a trip in that direction one of these days :)

We're planning to watch Cars on Saturday. I did preview the 1st chapter and it was outstanding. I just wanted to crank it up when the cars were driving by on the track. It looks so nice on my 2.35.1 screen

Lightning McQueen: Okay. Here we go. Focus. Speed. I am speed. One winner. 42 losers. I eat losers for breakfast. Breakfast? Sounds good. Maybe I should have had breakfast? Breakfast could be good for me. No no no. Focus. I am faster than fast, quicker than quick. I am Lightning.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/cars.jpg

Cars is an awesome movie for surround. You will be impressed for sure. The bass shakers really added a lot of effect in that movie. I am trying to figure out a way I can add masking to my current screen so I do not have to stretch the picture to fill a 16:9 screen. I just left the black bars on bottom and top for Saturday night. Maybe if I velcro some felt across the bottom and top if I know I will be runing a 2.35 ratio movie....hmmm. Now there is something to think about. It would be nice to use all the res of the projector, but I am not going to get a lens system. It just is too expensive, especially since I want a 1080p projector in the immediate future. I may go to the fabric store after work and look at what they have.

Cars is an awesome movie for surround. You will be impressed for sure. The bass shakers really added a lot of effect in that movie. I am trying to figure out a way I can add masking to my current screen so I do not have to stretch the picture to fill a 16:9 screen. I just left the black bars on bottom and top for Saturday night. Maybe if I velcro some felt across the bottom and top if I know I will be runing a 2.35 ratio movie....hmmm. Now there is something to think about. It would be nice to use all the res of the projector, but I am not going to get a lens system. It just is too expensive, especially since I want a 1080p projector in the immediate future. I may go to the fabric store after work and look at what they have.
Seems like the velcro option would work out quite well. I was considering that approach when watching 1.78:1 content. However, it does not bother me that much because the black levels on the IN76 are really good. One other option to consider is using some strong magnets (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=329-042) behind your screen wall and washers in your masking. Just pops on/off and no velcro to deal with. I think Chinadog/Bud used something like this to attach his panels below his screen.

Used them for the side panels and for the hush box actually. They work well.

Bud

MarkP -- I took your advice, bit the bullet and purchased 3 yards of Pressed F-3 3/8" felt today. It will run about $227 shipped (69.10/yard -- 60" wide and gray in color). They told me the weight on this package is 30lbs -- so this stuff is substantial. Now I understand how it can make a speaker cabinet so dead.

If anyone else is interested in getting some, you can get it from Southerland Felt Company (http://www.sutherlandfelt.com/pressed.htm). I check around with a bunch of other places on the net and the cheapest I could find was about 40% higher than these guys.

And anyone wondering what this stuff actually does, check out MarkP's post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8328801&&#post8328801) from a while back.

MarkP -- I took your advice, bit the bullet and purchased 3 yards of Pressed F-3 3/8" felt today. It will run about $227 shipped (69.10/yard -- 60" wide and gray in color). They told me the weight on this package is 30lbs -- so this stuff is substantial. Now I understand how it can make a speaker cabinet so dead.

If anyone else is interested in getting some, you can get it from Southerland Felt Company (http://www.sutherlandfelt.com/pressed.htm). I check around with a bunch of other places on the net and the cheapest I could find was about 40% higher than these guys.

And anyone wondering what this stuff actually does, check out MarkP's post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8328801&&#post8328801) from a while back.You wont regret it even though you will never know the results, get a stack of sharp blades to cut the stuff with and it takes a couple passes to get through the stuff.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/woolfelt.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/woolfelt.jpgMark,

Thanks Mark. Are those your side surrounds?

Steve, MarkP,

How much will the felt affect the total volume of the speakers ? Will it be an issue ? Im also building these speakers, although im using for a two channel
system.

Ivan