Well, I figured it was my turn to start building my Home Theater. I’ve been planning it “in my head” for a few years and on paper for the past 6 months. I must say the wealth of knowledge on the board has both given be insight into what to do and not to do as well as inspiration.

Construction started in October '05.

Just a quick summary:
- Room Size: 14.5 x 17.5 x 8’-10’ (vaulted).
- Walls: Painted Drywall with GOM covered panels
- Treatments: A combination of 2" JM814 and 5.5" Cotton around the room (custom balanced by Brian Pape (Bpape) of Sensible Sound Solutions)
- Projector: JVC RS1
- Screen: DIY SMX 124" 2.35:1
- Speakers: DIY 7 speaker system: (3) Floorstanders for the fronts, bi-pole for the sides and direct radiating for the rears
- Sub: (4) 15" SoundSplinter woofers in an Infinate Baffel (IB) Design
- Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS


The "Completed" Room (6/8/07)

Front
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Front-Final2.jpg

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Front-Final2a.jpg

Rear
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Rear-Final2.jpg

Star Ceiling (8/18/07)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/StarCeiling.jpg

Wet Bar - completed 5/24/09
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/wb-uc-complete1.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/wetbar2.jpg


I decided to add a Kid Media Center (11/23/09). It seems we were always fighting over the primary media room -- so now they have their own :D
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Gameroom2.JPG

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Gameroom2b.JPG

The pics below are out of date. I have since flipped the room 180 degrees. Click HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7088944&&#post7088944) to see the updated design.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album1/Large/Top.jpg
Top View. (4) Front Home Theater seating and (4) Rear bar stools. Notice the HUGE 2’x2’ bass traps in the rear behind the false wall.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album1/Large/Lighting.jpg
Lighting and Star Ceiling Breakdown. Small circles are can lights -- each color depicts a different lighting zone. Dotted yellow line is rope lighting. Pink is the star ceiling. Coffered ceiling similar to the one I saw at the restaurant.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album1/Large/Rear_View.jpg
View from the cheap seats (bar stools). Also note the metal inlays in the front columns.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Vault1.jpg
Adding a vault on the left side of the room for acoustical balancing. Notice I need to move both a supply and a return air duct.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Attic_Before.jpg
This is the attic space behind the HT rear wall. I plan to use 2' wide x the width of the room (14.5') to house my rear Paradigm 20s, a second HSU sub and some hefty bass traps.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Attic_Floor_Insulation_1.jpg
Two layers of R19 insulation has been added for my HT's "false wall" area. I still need to put down some R13 in between the 2x4s to fill in the 1.5" gap above the joists. 3/4" plywood will be applied on top to create my final floor. Since this area will be hidden, function is the priority.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Attic_Floor_Insulation_2.jpg
Added the top layer of R13 to fill the gap of the 2x4s on top of the rafters.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Attic_Floor_Insulation_Completed.jpg
3/4" plywood applied and other floor boards re-attached. Next step, add the new rear wall, which will outline the 3/4" ply I just installed


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/New_Wall_Studs.jpg
New rear wall now exists. It's about 14.5 foot long and 6' high. Next, LOTS of electrical.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Electrical1.jpg
Added 750' of Romex throughout the room for multiple zone lighting and (3) dedicated circuits for the equipment. This is the left wall. I would have shown you more but wire is just wire (not the most exciting thing to see)


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Main_Junction_1.jpg
All wires end up here. These are the main junction boxes for power to the circuits and splices needed from the existing room electrical. The main breaker panel in located in the garage below this attic space. A total of (4) circuits exist for this room: (3) 20amp for the equipment and (1) 15amp all the lighting.


I am planning to move (3) AC vents between Xmas and New Years and wrap up the electrical. More pictures to come soon.

Steve

Whoa!

That is gonna be one sweet theater. I love those front columns. The false wall for the bar stools intrigues me also.

Are you gonna go htpc or the standard stuff?

Victor

Are you gonna go htpc or the standard stuff?

Victor
Victor,

I have not decided yet. I have a PC ready to be HTPC but am also eyeing the Denon DVD-2910 and DVD-3910. Based on how expenses go, may have to go the HTPC option just because it's already paid for :D

BTW -- thanks for the kudos on the HT. I'm really excited to finally get started!

Steve,
Looks like you have alot of work ahead of you but looks like it will be a nice place to kick back relax and watch some movies.

Chad

Steve,
Looks like you have alot of work ahead of you

Chad
Chad,

Yes I do. My "plan" is to have it completed Feb/March. Hope I can make it :rolleyes:

Steve

Gonna look sweet when done. I'll be watching. :D

Another Dallasite :) Where in Dallas are you?

Well, I figured it was my turn to start building my Home Theater.

Looks like you took the leap. I like all the drawings, gives you a feel of the final product. Keep the drawing and photos comming.

Hi Steve,

I saw the pics on your site, and am convinced it will look great once finished. You're moving ahead a lot faster then I am... :)

Happy building!

Another Dallasite :) Where in Dallas are you?
Mike,

I'm actually in North Plano just south of 121. You might be right down the street.

Hope you can get re-started on your own HT soon (looks like it's on hold for right now). Design looks great :)

Very nice looking theater! I was just wondering, is any part of the screen blocked while sitting on the bar stools? Otherwise very professionsal, and comfy looking!

Very nice looking theater! I was just wondering, is any part of the screen blocked while sitting on the bar stools?
lmunz22 ,

Glad you like the look. I think there will be no blockage (or very limited) because the nature of the bar stool is a higher seat. Here is a crude rendering I made to check that very concern you mentioned:

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album1/Large/Side.jpg

Steve:

I love the digrams. You must spend hours doing these things. They do help visualize all aspects of the theater. The detail of the digrams make questions clearly answered and undisputable.

Greg

Steve...

Good to see your construction thread up and running!! It looks like a great project!

Keep the pictures coming!!

and good luck!!!

Sean

Greg--
Yes, I have spend a number of hours putting together the drawings (used Visio 2003). It was a way to "get started" before I was actually ready to pick up a hammer and nail :D The best part about it was that I could design, re-design and tune without any wasted materials, money, etc. Not to say it's been smooth sailing the entire time -- but the pics really helped get me started.

One note on your HT, I did bookmark your panel design. I plan to do something very similar in mine (as I mentioned to you before). Thanks for the detailed how-to!

Sean --
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, more pics to come. I'm planning to work more on it toward the tail end of next week. Thankfully, I have fellow AVSer (yldesyde/David) coming over to help me do some work :)

Thankfully, I have fellow AVSer (yldesyde/David) coming over to help me do some work :)

Looking Good. I wish I had some Fellow AVSer's coming over my place to help out :D
Any Takers?

Ruben

SandMax, if you'll pay for the ticket to Florida, I could possibly be persuaded lol.

Steve, I guess it is really official now since the eyes of AVS are upon you keeping watch on your progress. No chance anymore of hiding and pushing out deadlines lol. I hope Santa was good to you and just so you know, I am still pushing for the SuperBowl in your theater. Aggressive goal...yes. But if I stay unemployed I will have plenty of time to help. The only question is my ability level lol.

Good work on the site and thread. I am glad I will have the chance to help bring it into fruition.

David

P.S. Thanks for the credit ;-)

David,

Thanks for the "push" to get done by Superbowl. That was my original goal but since the chairs will not be in until late February, it "conveniently" moved my goal a little further out :D I think I'm going to need the time :p

I finally completed the electical. Seems like everytime I thought I was done, I'd think of something else to add :p The next step was to insulate the new rear wall so I could remove all drywall from the original rear wall. This will keep the room from becoming "attic" temperature. Not that big of a concern lately (since it's been unseasonably warmer -- upper 60's, low 70's here in Dallas) but I'm sure it will get cold one of these days :D

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Rear_Wall___No_Insulation.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Rear_Wall___Insulation.jpg
BEFORE -- No Rear wall insulation

AFTER -- Rear wall insulation installed. I saved a few $$ because I was able to move the insulation from the existing rear wall to the new "rear" wall (yellow). I just needed to add R19 to the ceiling and side walls (pink and brown).


Next step (hopefully tomorrow) is to remove all the drywall on the existing rear wall (since this will be the future "false" rear wall).

Worked on the rear wall today. Here are some pics.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Rear_Wall_with_Drywall.jpg
BEFORE: This is the current HT rear wall. Behind this wall is a new rear wall. In the space between these walls will house some special acoustical items (see next pic for more detail).


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Rear_Wall___Drywall_Removed.jpg
AFTER: This is after the drywall was removed from the current HT rear wall, exposing the new rear wall. The area between the walls is 2' deep by 14.5' long. It will house some 2’ x 2’ bass trap in each corner, a "tuned" bass trap in the center, a bowed deflector above the "tuned" trap, (2) rear surround speakers (Paradigm 20s) and a second sub (HSU VTF-3). Of course, I still need to add the drywall.

Hi Steve - Im booking mark this thread as it'll be one of my reference design. I'm building a new house with a dedicated Texas basement for HT so I will keep an eye and learn from your experience. Are you going to redo the existing surround walls to isolate this room from the rest of the house (I assume they haven't been done)?

Steve,

Looking good. Fun, isn't it? I like your color scheme as well.

Bud

Good luck.

Just subscribed! Good luck and keep the pics coming. Don't lose sight of the finish line. I'm currently in the works on a dedicated. When I'm ready, I'll post! :)

Finally finished re-studding the rear wall. Here are some pics.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Rear_Wall___All_Studs_Removed.jpg
Removed all existing studs to make room for a new stud design. Sorry this pic ended up a bit blurry.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Rear_Wall___Stud_Layout_Diagram.jpg
Here is the diagram I created before I started re-studding the wall. This will give you a sense of how the columns will fit over the studs. I know... a bit over the top but it helped me to have a plan before I started screwing in studs. Still had to re-do a few as I went but this helped immensely.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album4/Large/Rear_Wall___Restudded.jpg
New re-studded rear wall. I now have (3) virtual areas. Left and right side for the 2'x2' bass traps and the center for the speakers and bass diffusion/tuned bass traps.

Are you going to redo the existing surround walls to isolate this room from the rest of the house (I assume they haven't been done)?
hvn4179,

Since only 1 wall is exposed to living space (and that is separated by another "non-sleeping space" room - laundry room/dry bar area), I opted to stay with the builder single-drywall design. All walls have R19 insulation and the neighboring room is also equipped with more R19 insulation. I have a sold core door and will apply some weather stripping to help seal it a bit more. The room is above the garage with more insulation between. If I went double-drywall, I would need to remove all the existing texture before I applied the second layer of sheetrock. I'm not interested in the mess accompanied with that.

If I could do it again, I would have had the builder double-drywall. I just don't know how excited/willing he would have been if I asked him to put Green Glue between the layers -- might have made his head spin ;) I can hear it now: "You want to do what?"

It's not as soundproofed as I wanted but with the bass absorbtion I'm doing in the room, it should dramatically help the "length" of the boominess heard outside the room. What you'll hear is a quick "boom, boom" outside verses "booooooooooooooom, booooooooooooooooom".

Oh and good luck on your HT. Please post your progress once you get started :)

Steve,

Looking good. Fun, isn't it? I like your color scheme as well.

Bud
Bud,

The brown paint that is on the walls now will be covered up by the fabric panels I plan to apply. I will also be painting the ceiling black (which will be mostly covered up by the coffered ceiling/star design. Here are the final color choices "my wife" decided on for the room :p

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album2/Large/Fabric_Selection.jpg
Left to Right: GOM Anchorage 2335 (2016 Onyx): used for fiber stars, GOM Vertical Surface Solids 2402 (278 Camel): cover column mounted speakers, GOM Anchorage 2335 (2083 Coffee Bean): cover all wall panels, Natuzzi Montecarlo: leather selection for the Natuzzi chairs.

swithey
very nice!!! I also like the color. I am up in the air with what I am going to do with color schemes in my theater. I am also going to put bar stools in back of theater.
Are you going with nice comfy back bar stools?

whenever there is a place to munch on a sandwich or a plate of food I am all in when it comes to eating and watching movies. also the countertop makes a good place for friends to come over and link up there laptops and play video games or share files.

swithey
very nice!!! I also like the color. I am up in the air with what I am going to do with color schemes in my theater. I am also going to put bar stools in back of theater.
Are you going with nice comfy back bar stools?

whenever there is a place to munch on a sandwich or a plate of food I am all in when it comes to eating and watching movies. also the countertop makes a good place for friends to come over and link up there laptops and play video games or share files.
Larry,

Thanks for the compliment on the colors. No decision on the bar stools as of yet. We're still looking for those. However, I do know (based on the limited space I have), the bar stools will not have arms. I think it will be too crowded back there if they had them. Luckily there are LOTS of choices for this type of chair -- so the hunt is on :p

Also, you nailed it for the eating and friends seating. I never thought about LAN connections. I do have wireless but having a few wired LAN connection back there might prove to be helpful. I might even add a VGA connection so someone could easily plug int their laptop. Damn, now I need to run more cable :D

Your progress looks great!! I'll keep an eye out for sure and maybe I can steel some of your ideas!! Nice work.

Thanks everyone for the vote of confidence on the HT. I wish I could take off a few weeks from work to get this baby knocked out.. but then that would be too easy :D

I'm planning to venture over to HD in the next few days to pick up some MDF for the columns. This is the part I'm looking forward to. I love working with wood. I'll post some construction "progress" shots for your review (similar to the notorious "Sandman Thread"). Not sure if I can do as good a job as him, but I'll sure try :rolleyes:

Everything looks awesome. I can't wait to start my room, but I have to wait until I start my new house! Hopefully that will be this summer. I may borrow some of your ideas.

w8liftr,

Thanks for the kind words. Please let me know when you start yours so I can watch your progress!

1) what is a "chiseled" panel? When I see the word chiseled I think of stone.

2) won't putting the bass traps behind the wall in a separate faux room negate the benefit of the traps?

Here is a close-up of a chiseled" panel:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTDoneWalls12.jpg

2) won't putting the bass traps behind the wall in a separate faux room negate the benefit of the traps?
The false wall will be covered with 100% GOM material. The panels are just wood frames that are "open" in the center and covered with the material (just as Greg has shown you above -- Thanks Greg). Since GOM is acoustically transparent, the sound will travel through them as if they were not even there. The wall studs will reflect a small amount of sound, but not enough to be concerned with. In fact, they may offer a little diffusion -- which could be a good thing.

Think of this wall as a big curtain hiding "the good stuff" but lets sound penetrate vs. a hard wall that blocks everything :D

Here is a close-up of a chiseled" panel:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTDoneWalls12.jpg
Greg,

I've been meaning to ask you - what size if that corner piece? Is it just something like a 2x2?

It is a 2" x 4" ripped down to a 1" x 1". Then covered with the same GOM as the columns.

It was this way or build a small column in the corner. I had to do something to make the corned look wright. Did not like the column approach so i tried this and liked the look and simplicity.

Greg,

Thanks for the reply. I think I'll go with the "simple" solution too.

Picked up my MDF and sheetrock at HD yesterday. Cut most of the wood for the columns with the help of YldeSyde/David. I had to bribe him with lunch and a trip to Wally World :p


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/MDF.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Drywall2.jpg
- 7 Sheets of 3/4" MDF to make all the columns and front Entertainment Center
- 12 Sheets of 1/2" drywall for left ceiling vault and new rear wall area. I'm only doing single-sheet thickness drywall since the rest of the room is only single-sheet. Fortunately, only one wall actually touches living space (the other (3) are exterior walls). On the one "living space" wall, sound will need to penetrate a enclosed drybar area and an equipment closet (all walls insulated) before reaching another insulated living space wall. It's not perfect but will be fine for my needs.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Tablesaw_Setup1.jpg
Because these sheets of MDF are 8' long, we had to come up with a way to support the wood for the cut. A few saw horses and some other helper supports did the trick.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Cutting.jpg
The cutting process is relatively straight forward -- just push and hope you keep the cut straight. Having a friend help you with the cut really makes a HUGE difference. Thanks David!! Of course he wasn't helping me at this moment because he was taking the damn picture ;)


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Cutting_Jig.jpg
Cutting a long and narrow board required a quick jig to help keep the board and cut straight.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Cut_Competed.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Mock_up3.jpg

1st pic is 5 of the 7 sheets of 4x8 3.4" MDF cut into (8) 16" wide front panels and (16) 7" deep side panels. With the 2.5" deep side fabric panels I plan to put on the walls, that 7" depth will be reduced visually to 4.5" in the room.

2nd pic is a mock-up of the column in the HT room. Note, I need to cut the side pieces at an angle at the top a bit (to allow it to fit under the ceiling vault) and the some holes for the speaker. That's next on the list :)

A few more pics of my progress but not much to show. I have not had much time to work this week.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Stage1b.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Stage1a.jpg
These are the (2) rear columns in raw form. I still have a lot to do with them but this is a start. I have (6) more to build plus the center section of the front entertainment center. I will say, using the brad nailer allowed me to put these thing together very quickly.

Hi Steve,

I like your thread very much. Keep pictures coming. I will start mine on July. :( Can't wait, grrrrr :D

Back to the cabling for a second - having some hard network drops in the back can definitely be nice if you can find a place for them. I used the face of my riser. I put in component and composite video, analog 2 channel and coax digital audio, phone line, network drop. This was something that was not in the original plan but decided to do it as I was building the riser. I gotta tell you - it's one of the best things I did in the room. It gets used ALL the time.

BTW, the columns look nice. Coming right along.

v1rtu0s1ty,

Thanks for the support. July will be here before you know it. I've been waiting 2 years to begin mine. Glad I finally got started!!


Brian (bpape),

As always, thanks for your suggestions and help. You continued assistance on this project has proved to be invaluable!

I do plan to put some inputs in the right side column (the one closest to the rear of the room). Since the chairs will be closest to the wall there (about 1'), figured this would be the most unobtrusive place. I intentionally made the column "side width" wide enough to support a single gang box (possibly a double) with the 2.5" thick panels installed. I figured I could stack multiples if needed. The nice part being is the outlets will be hidden from normal view -- keeping with the WAF (I...I mean "clean look") I'm trying to accomplish with this room :D

BTW -- a phone line in the room? Have you ever heard of cordless phones and wireless Internet ??? ;)

I agree, I love the idea of the bar in the rear. I was going to do a second row of seating, but did not really need it (only a two person household). But I wanted a place for friends when watching the big game.

Keep the details coming about the columns. I am putting up 4 of my own, and have not begun on the design/building process yet and would love to see how you are putting everything together and finishing them.

Yeah. I have a wireless setup upstairs but I have 6 hard jacks in the basement. My kid has LAN parties and doing that all wirelessly with 16 kids simultaneously just brings it to its knees. Wired from each hard port to a 4 port switch works well and I can disconnect the basement from the rest of the network to let them stay 'in-house' and not suck up all my bandwidth to the outside world.

As for the phone jack - most of my phones are wireless - and usually NOT on their bases. This is one place where I can ALWAYS find a phone. Besides, I also do some work for friends who only have modems so it's used there too.

Looking really nice swithey!

Well guys, here is an update on my progress. Columns are coming along. I have (6) of the (8) built. Yldesyde/David came over to the house again yesterday to help me out. Thanks AGAIN David!! Bpape/Bryan is finishing up what I need for accoustics in the room. I'll post his findings once they are completed.

Well, onto the progress pics. I decided to put together a quick "How To Build a Column" guide. My methods may not be the fastest (or best) way but worked well for me.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Step1.jpg
Step 1: Line up the (2) side pieces up on edge. Try to put the best edge up as that is the one that will butt up against the front piece. Also, note I have a spare sheet of MDF on the garage floor. This creates a very flat surface and makes the final product a lot easier to nail together.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Step1a.jpg
Step 1a: Here is another shot of the sides sitting up on edge and aligned.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Step2.jpg
Step 2: Lay the top of your column on top of the side pieces. Be careful as you move the side pieces under the top piece for alignment since balance is the key here -- one wrong move and this thing will fall down like a house of cards.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Step2a.jpg
Step 2a: Here is another angle of the front piece sitting on top of the side boards, held together only with gravity.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Step3.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Step3a.jpg
Step 3: I used a 2" brad nail to attach the top to the sides. I spaced the nails about every 3 - 4 inches. Be very careful to keep your brad nailer perfectly aligned with the side boards as those 2” brads have a tendency to shoot out the sides if it is not.

If you look closely, you can see the little brad nails. I chose to use brad nails vs. screws because it would be less work to prep the MDF for the future maple veneer. It also reduced build time substantially. Because the nails went into the edge of the side boards, the MDF will easily split with any substantial side-to-side pressure. Side support braces are needed to ensure column strength (see next pic).


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Step4.jpg
Step 4: Carefully flip the column onto its belly. I used a 2x2 pushed into the corners to get the strength these columns needed. In order to keep the 2x2 tight against the side and front piece for nailing, I created a quick temporary wedge. Again, I used the 2" brad nailer and spaced the brads about 6" apart. I attached the brads on the sides and from the top for extra support.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Build_Completed___Front.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Build_Completed___Back.jpg
Final: Here is the front of the finished column. It is 8' tall x 16" wide x 6.25" deep and weighs in at 56lbs. That MDF is heavy but the column is very solid. The second pic is the back of the completed column. You can see the 2x2s that I added for extra support.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Column___Setup_like_Solders.jpg
Ahh, finally --- (6) of the needed (8) columns built for the HT lined up like solders. If you look closely, you will notice the side cutouts for electrical and AV outlets. Because all my walls will be covered with fabric panels, I did not want to break up the clean lines with any outlets. All these outlets are on the column sides and face the rear of the room. The MDF to the right is for the front columns. I will hopefully get to those tonight or tomorrow.

I must take a small "break" from HT construction to build something WAY more important. Does anyone remember the Pinewood Derby? Well, it's now called Derby Days and my daughter is in Y-Princess (formally called Indian Princesses). The race is in a few weeks so I must make a car. It should be fun to build and I'm SURE this car will be painted pink! Still have to come up with a design for the car.. so any ideas would be appreciated (remember this is for a girl). I was considering a Cinderella carriage theme but I think the wind resistance on it will slow it down too much.

Looking really nice swithey!
Big Worms,

Thanks for the nice comment. I still have a bunch to do but I'm making headway :)

Keep the car low to the track and very thin vertically. Maybe you can make it into a slipper.

Maybe you can make it into a slipper.
Bryan,

What a great idea! I see it painted a pearl white. My daughter would love that. Guess it's time for me to pull out the 'old whittling knife and start carving.

Here is the latest...

Room Accoustics
Bpape (Bryan) and I finally finished the room analysis and figured out what type and how much treatment will be going in the room. We’re going with a combo of 1” OC703, 1” OC703 FRK, 2” OC703 and 5.5” Cotton. The OC is for the walls and star ceiling and the cotton is for the rear and ceiling bass traps.

NOTE: The FRK is to make sure the room is not too dead by reflecting the higher frequencies. I’ll have a detailed drawing of where things will go in the room in the coming weeks.

Construction
I had a small set-back. I decided to put the side surrounds inside the columns (originally, I was planning to expose them and cover them with some nice Maple veneer to match the columns). The issue was I made the decision AFTER I made the (4) MDF side surround columns :(. It only cost me (3) sheets of ¾” MDF ($60) but the time to re-build them sucked. The silver-lining is it gave me a chance to re-think the column design and I did make a few changes that will work out better. If this is the only mistake I make during the build, I'll be really happy :rolleyes:

I also built the front wall columns that will flank the screen. Those were a bit more challenging because of their sheer mass. I’ll have more detail on them in a few weeks.

What’s Next (The short list)
- Cover up the front window (since the screen will be in front of it)
- Frame out the window to support the screen
- Apply firing strips along the walls to support the columns
- Veneer all the columns
- More to come…

Pics
The main reason for absorption in the room is to reduce the RT60 time. The RT60 time is the amount of time (in milliseconds) that is takes sound to decay by 60db. The critical part is to get the decay times to be relatively even after treatment (as opposed to putting up the same amount of absorption in sabines at all frequencies since things like carpet, air, humans, etc. inherently provide some upper mid/high frequency absorption by themselves).

Now this might stir up a mild discussion but bpape and I decided the target point for in my room being 80% HT and 20% music was around .31.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album7/Large/RT60___Raw.jpg
This is my room with (4) chairs, carpet, single drywall and 2 humans. This pics shows that this room would be way out of control if left like this – but it’s a starting point.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album7/Large/RT60___Bass_absorbers_Rear_and_Ceiling.jpg
This pic shows the addition of bass absorbers in the rear corners and above the star ceiling. We’re getting close :)


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album7/Large/RT60___Final.jpg
The last pic shows where I will be with the combo of 1” OC703, 1” OC703 FRK, 2” OC703 and 5.5” Cotton. This looks pretty good.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___8_Built.jpg
Here is a pic of all (8) columns built. The first (2) are the rear wall columns. The next (2) are for the front wall columns. The last (4) are the side columns. The (2) shorter ones are the side columns that will house the side surrounds. I’m building those as a two-piece design so I can wrap GOM over the surrounds and have near zero audio obstruction (I’ll have more on that once I get that part built).

This may not be of interest to many of you but I wanted to show you what my daughter and I made this past week. She is involved in a group called Y-Guides (formally called Indian Princesses/Guides). Just as the Scouts have the Pinewood Derby, we have "Derby Days".

The car that they use for Y-Guides is about 50% larger than the ones used in Scouts. Not sure why but man do they let you put some weight on these cars. Max weight on the Scout car is 5oz. Max weight on this car is 24oz -- that's 1.5lbs. It is surprisingly heavy.

I shaped the rectangular block of wood into what you see below. My daughter picked all the colors, the stripe design, flames and even the medallion on the rear trunk lid. Okay, okay -- can you guess what her favorite color is? :rolleyes: We had a blast building the car together.

Anyway, the race is tomorrow and she is very excited.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album8/Large/Side_View.jpg ... http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album8/Large/Top_View.jpg
Side View and Top View


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album8/Large/Front_View.jpg
Front View

Steve -

Have fun tomorrow, this is the first st year in the past three that I haven't built one of these with my kids. Really enjoyed it. I've got two more under 5 (including a girl due in April, currently have 3 boys), so I'll have some more opportunities.

This and the campouts are great. Anyway, be sure to lube the wheels and hit the full 24oz. I took some washers with some double-sided tape and added to the top of the car after weigh-in. I weighed before hand, but the Y's scales were always a little different from mine. Are they doing it again at Bill Bate's ranch?

Have fun and good luck.

David

Looking Awesome Swithey. I check in on your thread a couple times a week.

One thing I want to add is, You should always glue all your MDF joints before nailing. Brad nails and MDF alone don't go a long way. It may be a bit late for you now, but to anyone else about to start construction, buy a gallon of Pro Bond Glue when Building with MDF. Last thing you want in your beautiful theater is a rattling column like I had in my last theater due to not gluing.

Also I'm jealous of all the Room analyzations you got from BPape. Where's mine? :D

Ruben

Nice Ruben. I've been too busy keeping up with all your changes! ;)

Seriously, if you want the graphs, I'll send them to you - Steve just wanted them for his web site.

Steve -

Have fun tomorrow, this is the first st year in the past three that I haven't built one of these with my kids. Really enjoyed it. I've got two more under 5 (including a girl due in April, currently have 3 boys), so I'll have some more opportunities.

This and the campouts are great. Anyway, be sure to lube the wheels and hit the full 24oz. I took some washers with some double-sided tape and added to the top of the car after weigh-in. I weighed before hand, but the Y's scales were always a little different from mine. Are they doing it again at Bill Bate's ranch?

Have fun and good luck.

David
David,

Well, we won one of the races and lost the other 2 -- but had a great time. I must say that they had some really spectacular cars there. This was not your typical pinewood derby. There was double decker yellow buses, cars with HUGE bugs on top, a "Mystery Machine" from Scooby Doo, and even one that was like a farm with a horse grazing on top. I might need to re-think my "ho hum" idea next year.

Seriously, it was really fun. Our car weighed in at 24oz on the button. They moved it from Bill Bates ranch to the Paradise Ranch right down the street. My daughter was only after the trophy (and a donut)-- once she got that, she was ready to go. I have a 4 year girl old also, so I have a few more opportunities to get more wins under my belt.

One thing I want to add is, You should always glue all your MDF joints before nailing. Brad nails and MDF alone don't go a long way. It may be a bit late for you now, but to anyone else about to start construction, buy a gallon of Pro Bond Glue when Building with MDF. Last thing you want in your beautiful theater is a rattling column like I had in my last theater due to not gluing.

Also I'm jealous of all the Room analyzations you got from BPape. Where's mine? :D

Ruben
Ruben,

When I re-made my (4) side surround columns and made the (2) new front columns, I DID use lots of wood glue 2nd time around. That was something that I did forget about the 1st time (and glad I thought of it the 2nd time). They're all solid as a rock now! However, thanks for the tip.

As far as your room analysis from Bryan, all you need to do is ask (as I did and as Bryan stated above). He is very flexible to work with -- but I'm sure anyone that has worked with him in the past already knows that :)

Ruben,
s far as your room analysis from Bryan, all you need to do is ask (as I did and as Bryan stated above). He is very flexible to work with -- but I'm sure anyone that has worked with him in the past already knows that :)

I was just joking around. The graphs aren't going to do me any good, that's why I didn't ask for them. As long as bryan knows the #'s and tells me where to put the treatments then that's all I want to know. If I start getting graphs, I will start trying to figure out the software and get really side tracked and next thing you know I will be making some more changes :D

Ruben

What’s Next (The short list)
- Cover up the front window (since the screen will be in front of it)
- Frame out the window to support the screen
- Apply firing strips along the walls to support the columns
- Veneer all the columns
- More to come…



Love to give u a hand when time comes for veneering. I need some hand on experience. It looks like you're coming along very nicely.

If I start getting graphs, I will start trying to figure out the software and get really side tracked and next thing you know I will be making some more changes :D

Ruben
Ruben,

I am with you on that. I am a very detailed oriented guy and want to know everything about everything when it comes how my HT is built and how it will perform. However, on the room absorbtion/RT60 time, I have handed that over to the expert (bpape) :) It's just one less thing to worry about -- because you know (probably more than me) that there are plenty of other things that need to be done :D

Love to give u a hand when time comes for veneering. I need some hand on experience. It looks like you're coming along very nicely.
hvn4179,

Thanks for the offer. Honestly, I've done a lot of woodworking before but nothing of this scale -- so it's a learning experience for me too. Maybe I should hire Sandman's helper to give me some assistance since he's done such a great job :D

:eek: I'm being replaced?!!?!?!!?!

Better be careful or you'll get accused of another DIY scam ;)

Yep, Im following Sandman's work also. He's an ultimate HT dyi warrior :). Also, we have to use the room in 2nd floor and I can't phantom of carrying hundreds # of sand for the stage using the stair :eek:

Yep, Im following Sandman's work also. He's an ultimate HT dyi warrior :). Also, we have to use the room in 2nd floor and I can't phantom of carrying hundreds # of sand for the stage using the stair :eek:
There might be a weight issue with your subfloor anyway. I'd just stuff it tight with R19 insulation (like 2 layers in a 6" cavity). That should take care of any resonance issues :)

Steve, Its looking awsome so far. I like the look your trying to acheive. Very nice.

I'm close to you and also beginning my own HT build. Let me know if you ever need a helping hand.

Ronnie

Mini-Update..

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album9/Large/FrontWall.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album9/Large/Front_Wall_Visio.jpg
Yes, the Blue Tape now lives in my room. I was feeling a bit bummed on the room and needed a motivator. Putting the tape on the wall and seeing the big screen did the trick. I'm ready to get this baby done!

If you have not already noticed, I make pics of just about everything so I can "change my mind" on paper many times before the actual build. This is a shot of the Front Entertainment Center with the lower section framing exposed.

NOTE: I have to move a few wall lights -- they don't do much good behind the screen ;)


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album9/Large/Top_Down_View_Front_Ent_Center.jpg
Here are (2) top-down shots of the Front Entertainment center. Top pic is the recessed “shadow boxed” screen with R13 insulation behind it. The lower section will house my sub and center channel. Notice the 2" OC703 in the back and along the 15deg angled sides to help control bass under the screen. The top and front of the lower section will be covered with GOM fabric.

Steve,

You know they say once you get the blue tape up, all your progress will slow down to a snails pace! You should have waited to buy that blue tape until the last minute! :rolleyes:

Looking good! Love the drawings... puts my "paint" skills to shame!

Bud

You know they say once you get the blue tape up, all your progress will slow down to a snails pace! You should have waited to buy that blue tape until the last minute! :rolleyes:
I guess I deserved that comment. Touché my friend :D

Looking good! Love the drawings... puts my "paint" skills to shame!
Making the pics has made it SO much easier to show the wife what I'm talking about. My wife is also a very visual person and most of the design decisions for the theater would have been impossible to make without the use of these pics. Getting my wife to sit down, look at the pics and make a decision is limited (because of her "MOM" schedule), so I want to make those meetings are short and to the point. I think I have "decision" meetings down to about 5 minutes now :p

Steve,

You know they say once you get the blue tape up, all your progress will slow down to a snails pace! You should have waited to buy that blue tape until the last minute! :rolleyes:

Looking good! Love the drawings... puts my "paint" skills to shame!

Bud

I got you beat Bud in the primitive department. I got a pad of graph paper and a ruler and drew the plans out. They are absolutely horrific, but at least i know what they mean. I'm on a PC or server all day at work, I don't touch them at home, except to go on AVS. Keep up the good work swithy, I enjoy popping in and checking your progress. Looking very nice.

PS - My motivation - I ordered my projector, receiver, front speakers, amp, and DVD player in the last two days. How long do you think I will let them go homeless??? Not very...

Steve,

You know they say once you get the blue tape up, all your progress will slow down to a snails pace! You should have waited to buy that blue tape until the last minute! :rolleyes:

Looking good! Love the drawings... puts my "paint" skills to shame!

Bud


That's why I used Black Tape :D

Yesterday was a good day. I took the day off to work on the HT and feel I made some good progress. I managed to finally get built the top and bottom skeletons of the Front Entertainment Center. Yldesyde/David came over to give me a hand. Thanks again David.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album9/Large/eCenter_Skeleton.jpg
Click HERE to Enlarge Pic (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album9/Source/eCenter_Skeleton.htm)

Here is the pic of the finished product. It’s actually (4) pieces resting against each other. The front columns will eventually have holes cut in them for speakers – but I plan to do that after they are veneered. The bottom section will have black-out Commando cloth on the top and GOM on the front. The top section will have the same black-out cloth on the bottom and maple on the front. If you have not already realized, I will have the screen set back a foot or so to create a dramatic shadow-box effect. The inside edges of each of the columns will have the blackout cloth (to reduce reflections from the screen and add to the shadow-box effect). I must make this entire thing in pieces since I’m building it in the garage and will need to move it all upstairs to the Media Room once complete. At that point, I’ll affix them to the wall and each other with glue and screws.



http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album9/Large/eCenter_Refelctor.jpg
Here is the pic of the lower section on the left side. I have a 15deg angle on each side to help keep bass from collecting in the corners. These things took some “thinking” (2 hours to be exact) to get right, but I am very happy with the final outcome.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album9/Large/eCenter_Rendering.jpg ... http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album2/Large/Column3.jpg
Here is a rendering of the final product. The crown molding will angle out 22.5deg (angle not shown in this pic). The thin slivery lines are ½” metal inlays I plan to sink into the maple columns. The end result will look like the next pic.


Next I plan to tackle the custom speaker holes in the (2) side surround columns.

Very nice job Steve! It should very good when all done.

Looking Good Steve!! I took the day off yesterday as well to paint.

~Josh

Nice work Steve....very classy look!!

Looking good man. Guess I better hurry before you get to far ahead of me :D

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

I'm actually making some minor changes to the room design. I'll have more info and some pics once I get the kinks worked out.

Minor like adding karaoke, a planetarium, extending the room dimensions, an automated door like on Star Trek that slides into the wall? Enough teasing, tell us the scoop lol. Or maybe you are taking a note from Sandman's page and you are putting in a fish tank, but instead of in the wall, it will be in the ceiling so it will feel like you are watching a movie underwater. How cool would that be!!!

Ok, back to reality. What's changing buddy?

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

I'm actually making some minor changes to the room design. I'll have more info and some pics once I get the kinks worked out.

Hey Swithey,

This weekend I was thinking about your color choices of your theater. Have you considered that they may be a little too light for HT? I just ask because I had light colored walls in my last HT and The light of the Screen would reflect off the walls and distract me. That's why this time I went with the darker colors.

Ruben

Okay, I finally got the pics completed to show you guys what I'm changing. It's a long story but WAF came into play here -- so that's all I'm going to say :rolleyes: :D

In a nutshell, I decided to flip the room 180deg and put the screenwall against what was the rear wall. The main benefit to this is that 22" deep front columns that stuck out further visually that I had thought are not tamed to 6.5" deep. I can now utilize the rear false wall to house the front, center and sub. I think it will give the room a larger feel and make things look less massive. So, onto the V2 pics...

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album1/Large/Lighting_V2.jpg
Top View V2


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album1/Large/Rear_Seated_View_V2.jpg
Rear Seated View V2 from the bar stools

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album1/Large/Rear_V2.jpg
This is something I planned to do behind the rear wall but now will be exposed inside the room. The top part is a barrel diffuser to scatter sound horizontally and vertically around the space. The horizontal slats/shelves in the middle of the barrel diffuser will be the part that works the vertical axis. These shelves will only stick out ½” in the center and grow to about 6” on the sides (because of the curved nature of the barrel). The lower section is a tuned bass trap to smooth out a specific lower frequency range (Range is TBD by bpape).

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album1/Large/Left_V2.jpg ... http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album1/Large/Right_V2.jpg
Left and Right sides of the room. I do plan to put panels over the (2) door on the right wall because one is a reflection point.


What needs to be done:
- Cut down existing front columns (depth wise)
- Cut down lower section below screen

Should be fun :)

I'll have some pics after the carnage.

Hey Swithey,

This weekend I was thinking about your color choices of your theater. Have you considered that they may be a little too light for HT? I just ask because I had light colored walls in my last HT and The light of the Screen would reflect off the walls and distract me. That's why this time I went with the darker colors.

Ruben
Ruben,

Already handled :) My walls will be covered with a dark coffee brown GOM fabric. The speakers will be covered with a lighter wheat colored fabric (to blend in with the wood and the leather on the seating a bit). I could not use the wall fabric in front of the speakers because it is not as acoustically transparent as the one I selected. Below are my exact fabric choices:

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album2/Large/Fabric_Selection.jpg
Left to Right:
- GOM Anchorage 2335 (2016 Onyx): cover ceiling absorbers
- GOM Vertical Surface Solids 2402 (278 Camel): cover column mounted speakers
- GOM Anchorage 2335 (2083 Coffee Bean): cover all wall panels
- Natuzzi Montecarlo: leather selection for the Natuzzi chairs

Minor like adding karaoke, a planetarium, extending the room dimensions, an automated door like on Star Trek that slides into the wall? Enough teasing, tell us the scoop lol. Or maybe you are taking a note from Sandman's page and you are putting in a fish tank, but instead of in the wall, it will be in the ceiling so it will feel like you are watching a movie underwater. How cool would that be!!!

Ok, back to reality. What's changing buddy?
I wish it was something that exciting. Oh well, onto making more saw dust :D

"Minor" changes he says :rolleyes:

Seriously - no big deal.

For a little clarification on the rear setup. The 'barrel' diffusor is what is known as a polycylindrical diffusor. There was some dissusion about these types of things in another thread with Terry and Ethan. This provides some good dispersion in the rear of the room and reaches down pretty far down. The shelves certainly won't provide nice smooth polar plots but they do help in the vertical dimension some to scatter things in the upper mids and highs when used in conjunction with the poly. (It also makes good WAF points...)

The one big advantage of flipping the room is that there is now a lot more flexibility in terms of sub selection and placement than there would have been the other way around.

OKay guys, now that I don't need to house the sub below the screen, I was able to make the lower section shorter. With this change, I have some options for a slightly different look. The screen will be shadow-boxed back 2-4 inches from the front. The top and bottom sections will be set back about 1" from the columns on each side. However, I'm having a hard decision figuring out the "new" look.

Which one(s) do you guys like best?? I'm also open to suggestions.

NOTE: I cannot use the dark brown GOM fabric (that I am using on the walls) in front of the speakers because it is not acoustically transparent enough for speakers. The fabric I've chosen for the speakers does not come in a dark brown color or I would have gone that direction.

Option #1
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/front-opt1.jpg

Option #2
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/front-opt2.jpg

Option #3
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/front-opt3.jpg

Option #4
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/front-opt4.jpg

Option #5
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/front-opt5.jpg

Option #6
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/front-opt6.jpg

Option #7
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/front-opt7.jpg

Option 5 for me. One thing I noticed with my screenwall being all black now (paint and linacoustic only) is the picture really jumps out. I still get some distraction on the ceiling and sides (white unfinished drywall at this point), but that'll go away shortly.

Bud

I'd agree. The black background for the picture really sets it off nicely.

Okay, just added Option #6. I don't think I'll get the WAF on this one but made it anyway :rolleyes:

Any way to keep the detail but give yourself a few more inches on the sides of black? You do lose a lot of detail (the WAF factor) with option six, although probably best with the lights off!

Bud

Option 5 or 6 gets my vote.

I have my screen on a very dark blue wall (WAF meant black was out). Once the lights go down, the wall looks black anyway and the picture just appears to hang in space.

Very nice as you get drawn into it.

Darrin

Any way to keep the detail but give yourself a few more inches on the sides of black? You do lose a lot of detail (the WAF factor) with option six, although probably best with the lights off!

Bud
Bud,

Okay, there is now an Option #7 as you descibed above. I may be able to get this one passed the wife. Let mm know if this is what you were talking about.

Steve,

Exactly. Looks great. I officially change my vote to number 7!

Bud

#7 looks good. That is my vote.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album2/Large/Column3.jpg


I like the emboss effect on the wood where you had the X in the middle. Can you please share how do to that?

Here is my wild guess: Cut a 1/2 think plywood. Make the shape you like and stick it to the other plywood underneath it.

Hey Steve...nice work. Another vote for 7 here. I think it will make your picture jump out more. 5 was nice too...

I also like #7. Very visually appealing.

Ronnie

I like the emboss effect on the wood where you had the X in the middle. Can you please share how do to that?

Here is my wild guess: Cut a 1/2 think plywood. Make the shape you like and stick it to the other plywood underneath it.
He hasn't done them yet (I think), but the way I would do it is use a router with a straight bit. Then just paint the inside black.

Black is a must. I just finished my screen wall, about to update my thread in a few. The black sucks you into the movie. #6 or #7.

Ruben

Of course #7!!! ;)

#7 !!!

I like the emboss effect on the wood where you had the X in the middle. Can you please share how do to that?

Here is my wild guess: Cut a 1/2 think plywood. Make the shape you like and stick it to the other plywood underneath it.
Big Worms got it right. It will start with 3/4" MDF with maple veneer applied to the top. Then using a straight-edge, I'll make the grooves with a 1/2" router straight bit (just like SandmanX/Ruben did on his columns). Then I will insert the 1/2" aluminum strips into the notches to make the finishing touch.

I have not done these yet but when I do, I plan to document the process.

#7

Looks like the overwhelming majority like #7. Thanks guys :) I'll run it by the wife this eve and see what she thinks.

Big Worms got it right. It will start with 3/4" MDF with maple veneer applied to the top. Then using a straight-edge, I'll make the grooves with a 1/2" router straight bit (just like SandmanX/Ruben did on his columns). Then I will insert the 1/2" aluminum strips into the notches to make the finishing touch.

I have not done these yet but when I do, I plan to document the process.

So, all I need to buy is a plunge-router tool and the straight-edge bit. Thanks guys for the information. It helps me a lot. By the way, do you have a full picture of that picture you showed to us?

Looks like the overwhelming majority like #7. Thanks guys :) I'll run it by the wife this eve and see what she thinks.
We're IN :D Had the 5min meeting with the wife and Option #7 was the winner. This will make the build process easier too -- yea!!

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/front-opt7.jpg

Thanks again guys.

5 minutes? It took that long? Man, she must be pretty picky. Did you tell her I said it was OK?

HA!

Bud

Did you tell her I said it was OK?

HA!

Bud
LOL!!! She did take her time to look through every option. She deleted ones she did not like until there were only a few left. I had to sell her a bit on the one with a larger black border.... but in the end, everyone was happy :)

Im also planning on doing a home theater room. Have you started making your absorbers yet? Also where exactly will you place them?

Im also planning on doing a home theater room. Have you started making your absorbers yet? Also where exactly will you place them? No, I have not started on them yet. They will be placed on the front left and right corners of the theater (behind the false wall). The corners will be full from front to rear (24" wide, 24" deep x 8' tall) with cotton. Sandman used the same stuff. Here it is below from his construction thread (Ruben, hope you don't mind the pic-link).
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Bass-Traps/bass-trap-1.jpg

One thing I'm doing slightly different is to run the material vertically instead of cutting it into a bunch of 2'x2' pieces stacked horizontally (like Sandman did). I'll need to make a simple 1x2 frame to hold it upright (to reduce compression). I plan to make a frame something like this.
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/BassTrapFrame1.jpg

Weekend Update...

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album10/Large/Rear_Studs.jpg
Click Here to Enlarge Photo (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album10/Source/Rear_Studs.htm)
This is the “NEW” front wall. Notice the roomy false wall area behind the screen. This will make the front entertainment center very shallow since the speakers and sub woofer will live inside that area.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album10/Large/Rear_Studs_V2.jpg
Click Here to Enlarge Photo (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album10/Source/Rear_Studs_V2.htm)
I made a diagram for the front wall to detail exactly where I would put every stud. I know this seems like overkill but you would not believe how much this helps in the planning process to get things right the first time.



http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album10/Large/Front_Entertainment_Center_V2.jpg
Click Here to Enlarge Photo (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album10/Source/Front_Entertainment_Center_V2.htm)
This is a rendering of the final front wall design.


Watch out Bud, I'm building up speed and trying to catch up with you ;)

Steve,

Looking good! I think I've got a target on my back now...

Bud

Steve

Boy, 7 choices, no wonder you're having a hard time making up your mind.
Personally I like #6. I think it's because the screen is the prominent item on the wall. The other options (for me) emphasize the woodwork. Also in a timesaving sense, #6 cuts down on the amount of detailed woodwork that has to be done.

You know the more you think about this the harder a decision is. Now I'm coming up with reasons for one of the others because I really like nice woodwork. What we are deciding on is the visual effect when entering the room with some or all of the lights on. If the theater is light controlled, then the woodwork will disappear when the lights are turned off. That said I like #5 or #7.
I have a real hang up with the light tan fabric, it would be great with the lights on but I'd be afraid it would be too visible even in a darkened room. Personally I'd go with any option that didn't use the tan fabric.

It's your theater to live with, you need to decide. Which one does your wife like? How about getting some brown craft paper, black & white sheets and make a mock up?

Good luck
George

George, thanks for the comments. I welcome any suggestions as this is a work-in-progress. And, since I'm doing it myself, it does not cost too much to change things as I go :D

Steve
You know the more you think about this the harder a decision is. Now I'm coming up with reasons for one of the others because I really like nice woodwork. What we are deciding on is the visual effect when entering the room with some or all of the lights on. If the theater is light controlled, then the woodwork will disappear when the lights are turned off. That said I like #5 or #7.
As far as the woodwork -- my wife and I really like it. It is more work (for me) but I want the room to have a nice crisp and modern appearance when people walk in (with the lights on). Once the lights go off, yes the "wood" effect is minimized -- but hopefully if I do it right, the low lighting will take over from there (and the movie too LOL!).

I plan to have 6 lighting zones in the room. Each column will have a light shooting up at the angled vault (just for effect -- wife did not want wall sconces), rope lighting around the coffered ceiling, fiber stars inside or above (have not decided yet) the coffered ceiling and finally 9 can lights (3 front, 3 middle and 3 rear) each row on a separate zone. So making the lighting "just right" should be easy to do.


I have a real hang up with the light tan fabric, it would be great with the lights on but I'd be afraid it would be too visible even in a darkened room. Personally I'd go with any option that didn't use the tan fabric.

Honestly, I feel the same way. The bummer part is GOM 701 (or GOM Vertical Surface Solids 2402) does not come in a dark brown color that is acoustically transparent. All the walls will be a chocolate brown (GOM Anchorage 2335 - 2083 Coffee Bean). The brown anchorage is not AT so it cannot be used for speakers. WAF will not allow black over the speakers.

If I could find a dark brown AT material to cover my speakers, I'd use it. But as of right now -- I have not been able to locate anything that would work. If anyone knows a fabric that will work and is AC, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

If I could find a dark brown AT material to cover my speakers, I'd use it. But as of right now -- I have not been able to locate anything that would work. If anyone knows a fabric that will work and is AC, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!
George,

Looks like you got me thinking more about that. I found about 4 places that have this color but only this one had what looks like the dark brown that I'm going for (to match the walls). Here is an image of the fabric:
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/graphics_products/Cloth_Brown.jpg

It is available here for $15/yard. I've requested a sample, we'll see what happens.

Simply Speakers (http://www.simplyspeakers.com/11speakergrills.htm)

I had my blinders on as I was ONLY looking at GOM. Thanks for opening my eyes.

George,

Looks like you got me thinking more about that. I found about 4 places that have this color but only this one had what looks like the dark brown that I'm going for (to match the walls). Here is an image of the fabric:
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/graphics_products/Cloth_Brown.jpg

It is available here for $!5/yard. I've requested a sample, we'll see what happens.

I had my blinders on as I was ONLY looking at GOM. Thanks for opening my eyes.

Where did you find that stuff? Is it FR?

Also, to bad we have to be concerned with what it looks like with the lights on. It would be nice to finish it out in linacoustic, turn the lights off and call it done. :D

Ronnie

Where did you find that stuff? Is it FR?

Also, to bad we have to be concerned with what it looks like with the lights on. It would be nice to finish it out in linacoustic, turn the lights off and call it done. :D

Ronnie
Ronnie,

You hit the nail on the head as far as finish out. It is a lot of work but it will be so much fun once it's done.

I updated my post above to include the vendor link. I meant to put it in the 1st time -- sorry.

Steve

cool, thanks. I was hoping you were talking about wall fabric. Oh well.

Ronnie

Looks good Steve. Keep up the momentum!! :-) March is only two weeks away.

Looks good Steve. Keep up the momentum!! :-) March is only two weeks away.
I don't think I'm going to make it. It interesting how "family" things get in the way ;) Oh well, I'll just keep plugging and get it done with it gets done!

Steve,

I keep seeing Hsu in your drawings, so I took a look at your equipment list in your first post. I think I just saved you $752.00 (699.00 plus 53.00 s/h). Buy one HSU VTF3 KMII. You won't need a second one unless you plan on a small earthquake in the neighborhood. I doubt they'll cut you a break on shipping for two either, so buy one and try it out. If you then need another, then buy it. I doubt you'll need it though. Just a thought.

Bud

Steve,

I keep seeing Hsu in your drawings, so I took a look at your equipment list in your first post. I think I just saved you $752.00 (699.00 plus 53.00 s/h). Buy one HSU VTF3 KMII. You won't need a second one unless you plan on a small earthquake in the neighborhood. I doubt they'll cut you a break on shipping for two either, so buy one and try it out. If you then need another, then buy it. I doubt you'll need it though. Just a thought.

Bud
Bud,

Actually, I was planning to purchase only one right off the bat and do exactly what you suggested. I do LOVE bass and want to feel it on my chest. Bryan told me that I will be surprised how powerful one HSU VTF3 will be.

HSU did just release for pre-order their new models -- HSU VTF3 HO (High Output) and a HSU VTF3 HO Turbo. Each with more punch that the other. Honestly, if I do get a second sub, the proper placement for the 2nd sub would be in the rear of the room to balance everything out. Who knows, I may just get a couple of Danleys like Sandman -- I'll just need to rent out my HT for parties to help offset the cost ;) Now THESE will blow out my neighbors and force them to move away :D

Steve,

Good deal. I tell you, I have the VTF2 and I'm amazed.... Jerrod has a VTF3-HO turbo backordered. Curious how that works out for him. I know he got his Ascend SEs that were backordered, not sure on the sub yet though. Here is his thread and reference to the new VTF3. Maybe when he gets the sub he can post his comments (once his teeth stop chattering).

November Sky Theater (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6945739&&#post6945739)

Steve,

Good deal. I tell you, I have the VTF2 and I'm amazed.... Jerrod has a VTF3-HO turbo backordered. Curious how that works out for him. I know he got his Ascend SEs that were backordered, not sure on the sub yet though. Here is his thread and reference to the new VTF3. Maybe when he gets the sub he can post his comments (once his teeth stop chattering).

November Sky Theater (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6945739&&#post6945739)
Bud,

Just posted to his thread requesting a review :D Of course there are better (more expensive) subs out there, but for the money, this sub should rock.

Update...

I have not had much time during the week lately to work on the HT but got some work done today. I finished up the side surround columns that will hide the Paradigm ADP470 speakers. Here are the pics:


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Side_Surrounds5.jpg
Click HERE to Enlarge (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Source/Columns___Side_Surrounds5.JPG)
These are the side surrounds that will house the Paradigm ADP470 bi/di-pole speakers. The top "empty" section is a removable section that will be covered with GOM material. This will allow me access to the speaker at any time. If you enlarge the pic, you will be able to see where I have drawn in pencil where the metal inlays will go. I plan to bondo (to fix/cover up) any defects in "my craftsmanship" and veneer these things soon.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Side_Surrounds1.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Side_Surrounds2.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Side_Surrounds3.jpg
1st Pic is the bottom section. It will be filled with insulation to make sure the column does not sound like a drum. 2nd Pic is the middle to hold the surround speaker (will be covered up with speaker material). 3rd Pic is the top to finish it off. I plan to put crown molding up top of that.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Side_Surrounds6.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Side_Surrounds4.jpg
The goal for the “cage” was to keep the front right the left corners as THIN as possible so not to block any audio coming out of the surround speaker. The Paradigm ADP470s shoot out at roughly 15deg – so this is an important item when putting this speaker inside a column. As you can see in the 2nd pic, it slips out for easy access to the speaker (if ever needed).

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album3/Large/ADP470b.jpg
Here is a pic of the Paradigm 470 surround speakers so you can understand the angle I was talking about.

Nice work Steve! On Friday I was at a food court and I saw columns there that had exactly what you are doing with metal strip inlays. It looks awesome. So yours should turn out very good. Can't wait to see more progress! :)

Nice work Steve! On Friday I was at a food court and I saw columns there that had exactly what you are doing with metal strip inlays. It looks awesome. So yours should turn out very good. Can't wait to see more progress! :)
Glad you like the design of the columns. I should have a lot more pic in the coming weeks. I plan to veneer the columns on Thur (if I can get them all bondo'ed and sanded in time). Yldesyde/David is coming over to help with the veneering :)

Swithey-your columns are looking awesome! Wow..I just realized that you are a fellow Planoite! I am curious to know where you bought your maple veneer. I also plan to use this for my columns and soffet and am having a heck of a time tracking some down.

Rockler and Woodcraft are 2 places that have huge varieties of everything wood related. I saw at least 7 different types of veneer on my last trip over there. There is a WoodCraft on the corner of Midway and Spring Valley in Carrolton. Not to far from you.

Be carefull, you will find yourself spending hours in there looking around. :D

www.woodcraft.com
Brookhaven Village Shopping Center
14380 Marsh Lane
Addison, TX 75001
Phone: (972) 241-0701


www.rockler.com

Ronnie

This is the place I was planning to buy from (but plan to check out Ronnie's place tomorrow to compare pricing). We had a bunch of custom furniture done here at the office and this is the place the furniture guy used.

Central Hardwoods
2605 Rodney Lane, Dallas
Royal Lane/Denton Drive
972-241-3571
http://www.centralhardwoods.com/

I'm planing to purchase some Maple veneer tomorrow from someone.

When I get to that stage, I am tracking a person with the moniker of "woodforu" on ebay. Do a search for veneers, should find him. Has some really nice large pieces of veneer that wind up reasonably priced. Possibly not as user friendly as some of the other veneer dealers, but price is right.

Bud,

Just posted to his thread requesting a review :D Of course there are better (more expensive) subs out there, but for the money, this sub should rock.
Yeah, unfortunately I don't have it and it sounds like it will ship late March/early April. By all accounts, this sub should be phenominal. When I ordered my Ascends, Dave F (the owner) took my order and told me he heard the HO turbo at CES and said it was unreal. With all the hype (and the $$$ it cost me :eek: ) it better be! I've never owned a sub before, so I'm sure it will blow me away.

Yeah, unfortunately I don't have it and it sounds like it will ship late March/early April. By all accounts, this sub should be phenominal. When I ordered my Ascends, Dave F (the owner) took my order and told me he heard the HO turbo at CES and said it was unreal. With all the hype (and the $$$ it cost me :eek: ) it better be! I've never owned a sub before, so I'm sure it will blow me away.
It will be a nice step up from my crappy 8" "I only go down to 40Hz" Cambridge Soundworks model :D That HO Turbo is rated down to 16Hz - Nice!

This is the place I was planning to buy from (but plan to check out Ronnie's place tomorrow to compare pricing). We had a bunch of custom furniture done here at the office and this is the place the furniture guy used.

Central Hardwoods
2605 Rodney Lane, Dallas
Royal Lane/Denton Drive
972-241-3571
http://www.centralhardwoods.com/

I'm planing to purchase some Maple veneer tomorrow from someone.


WOW!! did you check out their showcase pics? Those guys do some amazing woodwork.

I may have to take a trip over to their place and look around. In addition to the veneering, I will be looking for lots of molding and ornamental type stuff.

Ronnie

Thanks a bunch guys for the wood supply tips-I'll be checking out your suggestions this weekend. I already anticipate it will be a multi-hour excursion-like a kid in a candy store :)

...
Central Hardwoods
2605 Rodney Lane, Dallas
Royal Lane/Denton Drive
972-241-3571
http://www.centralhardwoods.com/

I'm planing to purchase some Maple veneer tomorrow from someone.

Steve, how much does the 4x8 sheet cost?

Steve, how much does the 4x8 sheet cost?
I believe $30 for maple veneer (paper or non-paper backed). You get it rolled up so easy to transport it in a normal car.

WOW!! did you check out their showcase pics? Those guys do some amazing woodwork.

I may have to take a trip over to their place and look around. In addition to the veneering, I will be looking for lots of molding and ornamental type stuff.

Ronnie
Ronnie,

I was planning to go by there late afternoon tomorrow -- leave around 3 or 3:30PM. If you can leave work early, you are welcome to come. I need to pickup about 4 sheets to do the columns on Thursday.

Ronnie,

I was planning to go by there late afternoon tomorrow -- leave around 3 or 3:30PM. If you can leave work early, you are welcome to come. I need to pickup about 4 sheets to do the columns on Thursday.

I would love to, unfortunately I cant leave work early. Way to much going on at the moment. Be sure and let me know how they work out for you and if its a place you can browse around in with a lot to look at.

Ronnie

Hi Steve,

Those columns look great! Can't wait to see them all veneered... :)

Ronnie -- I'll check it out and let you know. I'm in the process now of figuring out how much I need to purchase. One thing the wood guy told me is if I go with paper-backed veneer (which it what I plan to get), use a water-based glue. The oil-based glues "could" cause a reaction with the glue on the paper and seep through to the surface. I plan to use a low-VOC water based glue I found at HD. My wife is very sensitive to chemicals so anything I can do to reduce the fumes, I'll do.

Den -- as always, thanks for the comments. I can't wait until you get those walls done so you can start on the fun stuff!

UPDATE -- I received the brown speaker fabric sample from simply speakers today and it looks like a great match to the GOM fabric I plan to put on the walls. One more thing to check off the list. Veneering is "planned" to happen on Thursday so I'll have David take pics of the process. I'll be stealing all the tips I learned from SandmanX/Rubens thread so it should be just a review for everyone ;)

I believe $30 for maple veneer (paper or non-paper backed). You get it rolled up so easy to transport it in a normal car.
Wow, that's a great price as other places sale the 2'x8' size for almost double. Can't wait to see the process pictured.

Wow, that's a great price as other places sale the 2'x8' size for almost double. Can't wait to see the process pictured.
I just got back form the place. I had posted the incorrect price -- it's $35/sheet for a 4x8 paper backed veneer. If you want wood backed, price jumps to $50/sheet.

It's some nice stuff. I cannot wait until I get it applied.

I got you beat Bud in the primitive department. I got a pad of graph paper and a ruler and drew the plans out. They are absolutely horrific, but at least i know what they mean. I'm on a PC or server all day at work, I don't touch them at home, except to go on AVS. Keep up the good work swithy, I enjoy popping in and checking your progress. Looking very nice.

PS - My motivation - I ordered my projector, receiver, front speakers, amp, and DVD player in the last two days. How long do you think I will let them go homeless??? Not very...


That's what we all say. Just don't hook anything up until your theater is ready or else you'll spend all your build time watching DVD's. I got my setup over a year ago. Theater project .......... still....... ongoing..... lol.

Enjoy.

Update…

It was a LONG day. We (Yldesyde/David and myself) started about 10:30 this morning and finished about 9PM this eve. Sanding took a bit longer than expected – waiting for wood filler to dry, moving from column to column, etc. Anyway, no veneering done today – but they are READY to do that next. Here are a few pics:

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Sanding_Process.jpg
1st thing we needed to do it fill all the nail holes, bondo any dips in the wood then sand until smooth. Here is David sanding one of the columns. Notice there are (2) on the sawhorses – as the other one is mine.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Vacuum.jpg
After we completed the sanding, we gave them a quick vacuum to get the heavy saw dust off of them. We will plan to wipe these down with a barely damp rag and follow up with a cheese cloth to remove any dust before the veneer is applied.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Sanded.jpg
Here are all (8) columns sitting out on the driveway while we cleaned up the garage – talk about a lot of saw dust. My wife wouldn’t even come out into the garage because of the cloud of dust that floated in the air. Both David and I wore respirator masks to keep our lungs healthy.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Columns___Veneer_in_Box.jpg
Here is a picture of the (6) sheets of 4’x8’ paper backed Maple veneer I bought yesterday. I cannot wait to get it on the columns to see how it looks. Hopefully I’ll get a few columns done this weekend.

Columns look great. I need you guys to get trained on that veneering. I may need some help with mine. :D :D

Columns look great. I need you guys to get trained on that veneering. I may need some help with mine. :D :D
Ronnie,

Yesterday was a good day but veneering will be LOTs more rewarding. I'll post once they are done.

BTW -- You asked if Central Hardwoods had a large selection and the ability to walk around. Well, large selection yes, but everything was in the warehouse in the back. I think they would let you go back there "supervised" to look around but don't plan on "looking" for a few hours. It's very industrial and I get the sense that you just need to know what you want when you show up. There is also a $200 min purchase -- however, they told me that they do not enforce it. It's basically there to keep the customer that comes in looking for (1) piece of crown molding, but plans on fishing through every piece they have to find the "perfect" one. It may not be a "showroom" store but you can't beat the prices.

I will need to buy some 3/4" maple edging (need less than 20'), so I'll probably get that at Woodcraft or Rockler. I think the min purchase is 100' from Central hardwoods.

Steve, What are the dimensions for your columns? Just curious.

How is that veneering coming along?

Ronnie

Steve, What are the dimensions for your columns? Just curious.

How is that veneering coming along?

Ronnie
-- (2) front and (4) side columns are 16" wide x 9" deep (external dimensions)
-- (2) rear columns are 16" wide x 6" deep (external dimensions)

The rear columns are shallower than the rest because I wanted to maximize the space in the rear for the bar stools. Now since I've flipped the room, in-walls will be the speaker of choice for the rear columns. Luckily Paradigm has some nice options that are timbre matched to the 20s I plan to put in the front.

As far as the veneering, I'm doing it as we speak. I'm in the 30 minute waiting period as the glue dries on the columns and the piece of veneer. After that, I press them together. I've done one side of the column already and you won't believe how easy it is to do this! I'll have pics of the process soon.

Update…

Last night I veneered a single column and I must say it was a piece of cake. I’m a relatively handy guy but have never done this before. It seemed like a challenging process but after doing it I would say anyone can do this. I still have (7) more to go but now that I’ve done one, I can probably tackle 2 or 3 at the same time in an assembly line process to speed things up a bit. Here are the steps I followed to veneer my HT column.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_Material.jpg
Here is the RAW 4’x8’ 1/16” thick “paper backed” Maple veneer. The lighter side is the maple and the darker is the paper backing


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_StraightEdge.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_AfterCut.jpg
With the aid of a straight edge and a sharp blade, it is easy to cut the veneer to the desired width.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_WipeDown.jpg
Before applying the veneer, I vacuumed the column and wiped it down with a barely damp rag to remove any dust.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_ApplyGlue.jpg
Next, I used a 3” short nap roller to apply the veneer glue on both the back of the veneer and directly on the column.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_GlueDrying.jpg
Here is the glue covered veneer and column. It’s milky white now but dries clear. The glue has a consistency like watered down white Elmer’s school glue. According to the instructions on the can, I needed to wait 30-40 minutes for the glue to dry before attached it to the column. This is an excellent opportunity to start the process over on another column.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_Glue.jpg
The glue I used is water based for easier cleanup. One plus is it is low VOC -- which translates into lower odor and fumes (something very important to my wife because of her sensitivity to chemicals). No cheap buzz from this stuff – has almost NO odor at all. I also had a very important reason for using a water based vs. oil based glue. The sales guy that sold me the veneer said that if I planned on using an oil based clear-coat (which I might), that an oil based clear-coat might react with the oil-based glue and cause the glue to rise to the surface and ruin the finish. Of course, if you insist on using oil based product for both the glue and sealer, just purchase wood-backed veneer. The wood backing will keep the glue from reacting with anything on top of it.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_PaperProtection.jpg
A trick I learned from SandmanX/Ruben was to put some craft paper on the veneer. This is extremely helpful since it allows alignment of the veneer on the column without having it stick. I used (2) pieces – one for the front half of the veneer and one for the back – with a 2” overlap in the middle. After it’s lined up, remove the front half of the paper, stick it down, and repeat for the back half. Because… once they are stuck together, they are stuck forever.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_PressingVeneer.jpg
The craft paper has been removed and now the glue needs 75lbs of pressure to make the bond strong. You can buy these special veneer/laminate rollers from HD to take care of this task for you – worth every penny.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_TrimmingExcess.jpg
After the veneer is stuck, the edges need to be trimmed with a SHARP utility knife. Really easy to do but take your time so not to dig into the wood underneath.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_SandingEdges.jpg
To finish it off, take a hand sander with 220grit sandpaper to smooth out the edges and make the seam between the top and side nearly invisible. I would not recommend an electric sander for this task as the veneer is very thin and you could easily take off too much material and ruin the job you just did.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_BeforeVeneer.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_Finished.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Large/Veneer_Finished2.jpg
Click Here to Enlarge the veneered column close-up (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Source/Veneer_Finished2.JPG)
Click Here to Enlarge the veneered column (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album6/Source/Veneer_Finished.JPG)
And – finally – the final product. 1st pic is the raw MDF column. 2nd pic is the completed veneered column. 3rd pic is a close up of the veneered column.

Looks good Steve. Just so you know, I actually have my very own hand sander if you want to do double duty lol. When is the speaker wire arriving?

Very nice job on the veneering Steve.

Looks like you and I are in the same boat with the pics. Its hard to do this single handedly and also take the pictures isnt it? Half the time I get on a roll and start working away then remember I needed to take some pics. :D


Ronnie

Wow Steve,

Those columns really look excellent. Very nice work!
How long did it take to complete veneering one column? Have you now done all of them?

Looking good Steve.

Check your email.

Very nice job on the veneering Steve.

Looks like you and I are in the same boat with the pics. Its hard to do this single handedly and also take the pictures isnt it? Half the time I get on a roll and start working away then remember I needed to take some pics. :D


Ronnie
Ronnie,

I'm with you on the pics. It is difficult to work and take pics at the same time. BTW -- your HT is really coming along -- great work. I may steal your can-light idea for for use in my star ceiling. I'm still working out the details.

Wow Steve,

Those columns really look excellent. Very nice work!
How long did it take to complete veneering one column? Have you now done all of them?
Actually it did not take much time at all. Most of the time was wasted waiting the 30 minutes for the glue to dry. I'd say (removing the glue time) the column took me about 45 minutes. It was a very easy process to turn an ugly piece of MDF into a piece of fine furniture :)

I've only done the one for now. I'm going to try and complete the other (7) this week if I can.

Looks good Steve. Just so you know, I actually have my very own hand sander if you want to do double duty lol. When is the speaker wire arriving?
You have your own sander -- now you tell me! ;) I guess I need to order that darn speaker wire. I'm still trying to figure out what "other" cables I'm going to make on my own vs. buying pre-built. I think the plan will be to terminate my own speaker cables and buy everything else pre-built -- but the jury is still out.

Steve-thanks for sharing your recent pictures on the veneer process-looks like it turned out nicely-I really like the grain of the maple you selected. Have you chosen a stain yet?

Steve-thanks for sharing your recent pictures on the veneer process-looks like it turned out nicely-I really like the grain of the maple you selected. Have you chosen a stain yet?
No selection on the stain color. However, my wife liked the color of the ones that inspired us. Here is a pic.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album2/Large/Column3.jpg

HD has a crappy selection so I will probably try out Sherwin Williamns to see what they have. I may even see if they can match the sample in the above pic if the department store will allow me to borrow something small to take over there.

No selection on the stain color. However, my wife liked the color of the ones that inspired us. Here is a pic.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album2/Large/Column3.jpg

HD has a crappy selection so I will probably try out Sherwin Williamns to see what they have. I may even see if they can match the sample in the above pic if the department store will allow me to borrow something small to take over there.


L@@king Awesome Swithey!

You may want to use ML Campbell Stains and Top Coats as they are industry Standard and give you a real consistent finish when sprayed on (unlike the Minwax rub on stuff).

If you use a microtint stain like we did, it goes on quick and consistent and dries right away (5 minutes top)

Ruben

Darn, I'm following your thread, Steve, but not getting the images to download.. Anyone else having this problem, or do I need to dig deeper on my end? Very glad to hear the the veneering wasn't a problem for you! I'm seriously considering the same thing, especially for the edges of the soffit ala Ruben.

Darn, I'm following your thread, Steve, but not getting the images to download.. Anyone else having this problem, or do I need to dig deeper on my end? Very glad to hear the the veneering wasn't a problem for you! I'm seriously considering the same thing, especially for the edges of the soffit ala Ruben.
Tim,

Could be my website is blocked somehow on your end. See if you go directly to my website (which is where all the pics are linked from). If you get there, click on the section called "LATEST PICS: Column Construction"

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/frames/

Hmm, I remoted in to my home computer and can't get to it from there either (where nothing is blocked). But then I also noticed I can't ping your IP address that resolves via DNS either (XX.XXX.123.20).

Edit: Nevermind, I was able to get to the link from home now.. perhaps it's blocked on my work side.. Thanks. (Time to catch up!)

Hmm, I remoted in to my home computer and can't get to it from there either (where nothing is blocked). But then I also noticed I can't ping your IP address that resolves via DNS either (XX.XXX.123.20).

Edit: Nevermind, I was able to get to the link from home now.. perhaps it's blocked on my work side.. Thanks. (Time to catch up!)
Tim,

Glad you got it figured out. Because of our firewall, a Ping will not respond. Hope you can get the firewall opened at the office so you can continue to follow my thread :D

BTW -- How's the bulb in your BenQ PE7700? I think I'm switching camps to the Epson 550 or possibly the 800 because of the bulb issues with the BenQ.

Steve long time lurker. Great job so far on your theater. With the veneer maple is a very tight pored wood and you have to use a dye on it not a stain because stain can't penetrate the tight pores in maple. It should be the same with a veneer, the reason I know this is I built my kitchen cabinets out of maple and the plywood I used was a veneered ply.
I hope this info is a help.
Doug

Update…
A trick I learned from SandmanX/Ruben was to put some craft paper on the veneer.

Thx for the pics. What's craft paper?

No selection on the stain color. However, my wife liked the color of the ones that inspired us. Here is a pic.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album2/Large/Column3.jpg

HD has a crappy selection so I will probably try out Sherwin Williamns to see what they have. I may even see if they can match the sample in the above pic if the department store will allow me to borrow something small to take over there.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on HDs crappy selection. Per Ruben's suggestion I'm going to see if I can track down some ML Campbell stain locally-I'll let you know if I find anything. I agree with your wife on the color selection-I think it will look very rich with your room colors.

Tim,

Glad you got it figured out. Because of our firewall, a Ping will not respond. Hope you can get the firewall opened at the office so you can continue to follow my thread :D

BTW -- How's the bulb in your BenQ PE7700? I think I'm switching camps to the Epson 550 or possibly the 800 because of the bulb issues with the BenQ.
The bulb is good again after replacement.. only took about a week to get it back. Supposedly the firmware update fixes the issue.. we'll see. I'm incredibly happy with it, even considering the occasional annoyance of the bulb. Though, I think if I did it again I'd have gotten the Optoma H78DC3, but the 7700 was stretching the budget at the time anyway.

hvn4179,
Craft paper is available at various craft stores; the closest thing I can think of is like wax paper (similar purpose as well as I understand it, but in the context of crafts).

Steve long time lurker. Great job so far on your theater. With the veneer maple is a very tight pored wood and you have to use a dye on it not a stain because stain can't penetrate the tight pores in maple. It should be the same with a veneer, the reason I know this is I built my kitchen cabinets out of maple and the plywood I used was a veneered ply.
I hope this info is a help.
Doug
Doug,

Thanks for the info. I found this link that gives more detail about exactly what you were talking about:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Staining_and_Blending_Difficult_Woods.html

Looks like the stuff that SandmanX used (ML Campbell) has exactly what I need to stain this wood (both a dye and stain). I was thinking about purchasing a HVLP gravity fed paint sprayer anyway -- now I have a reason to buy one.

Thx for the pics. What's craft paper?
hvn4179,

It's just brown paper you can buy at HD in a roll. I think they call it "masking paper". It's over on the painting isle. They also sell a thicker version of this at craft stores like Jo-Ann's.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on HDs crappy selection. Per Ruben's suggestion I'm going to see if I can track down some ML Campbell stain locally-I'll let you know if I find anything. I agree with your wife on the color selection-I think it will look very rich with your room colors.
Here is a link to the US ML Campbell distributer list:

ML Distributers List (http://www.mlcampbell.com/Images/Distributor%20List%20by%20State.pdf)

In the Dallas area, there is only one local distributer. I might need to take a drive out there to see what they have.

Louis and Company
3080 North Great SW Pkwy
Grand Prairie, TX 75050
(972) 660-8676

Here is a link to the US ML Campbell distributer list:

ML Distributers List (http://www.mlcampbell.com/Images/Distributor%20List%20by%20State.pdf)

In the Dallas area, there is only one local distributer. I might need to take a drive out there to see what they have.

Louis and Company
3080 North Great SW Pkwy
Grand Prairie, TX 75050
(972) 660-8676

I found the same distributor list last night-you beat me to the punch on posting it. I am dreading the drive to Grand Prairie, but it looks like this stuff is worth the trip.

I found the same distributor list last night-you beat me to the punch on posting it. I am dreading the drive to Grand Prairie, but it looks like this stuff is worth the trip.
I'm with you on the drive. Just hope they have some sample I can take with me to show the wife. It will be hard to "make a decision" in the store.

From my office, it looks to be about a 30 min drive -- bummer :(

I'm with you on the drive. Just hope they have some sample I can take with me to show the wife. It will be hard to "make a decision" in the store.

From my office, it looks to be about a 30 min drive -- bummer :(
I just got off the phone with Louis and Company and they really only do wholesale not retail. For a single purchase, they would not be able to setup an account for me. However, they do have a retail account that they could use but the price goes up (not quite retail pricing but not wholesale pricing either).

As far as a sample, they do not have anything I can take with me. They do have a binder in the store I can look at with the colors (but not on wood just printed on paper). They stock (7) colors in quarts and gallons. All sales final.

Since I'm using Maple, a wipe-on stain is not recommended because the color would not be consistent. They recommended the use of the WoodSong II Microton Toners and can only be applied with a sprayer (as Ruben mentioned earlier). This is the case because it is a dye and stain combination (and it drys in seconds). Because my columns are smooth without moldings, etc, this will make the process of spraying the columns quite a bit easier. He told me that if you have moldings with crevices and cracks, this makes it challenging for an inexperienced "spray-on" stainer (like myself) to get an even look.

Before I go over there, I’m going to venture over the Sherwin Williams and see what they have. The ML Campbell rep said there stuff is good too but of course preferred ML Campbell (which I can understand). I have a friend that used a rub-on stain for his maple coffered ceiling and it turned out great. I’m pinging him now to find out that brand he used. I do know he sprayed on the clear-coat.

More info as it arrives…

I found a great discussion thread on staining Maple and getting an even (non-blotchy) appearance. There is some contradictory info in the discussion (which is normal) but this concept seems consistent throughout.

“When it comes to maple, I have found that wiping the wood with a clear base (stain without pigment) then wiping with stain works well. What the base does is it fills the deeper grain, which causes the uneven color, then when you wipe your color on it is even.”

Here is the entire discussion if you want more info:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Blotching_on_maple.html

NOTE: Whatever method I choose, I plan to test on scrap to see how it goes.

I found a great discussion thread on staining Maple and getting an even (non-blotchy) appearance. There is some contradictory info in the discussion (which is normal) but this concept seems consistent throughout.

“When it comes to maple, I have found that wiping the wood with a clear base (stain without pigment) then wiping with stain works well. What the base does is it fills the deeper grain, which causes the uneven color, then when you wipe your color on it is even.”

Here is the entire discussion if you want more info:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Blotching_on_maple.html

NOTE: Whatever method I choose, I plan to test on scrap to see how it goes.


Well okay then...now I'm planning to rethinks my approach. I may simply end up going to a higher-end paint store here in Plano and see if I can buy some stain samples. I really would hate to buy ML Campbell without getting to test it first- I too would fall into the category of novice sprayer-so I would want to play around a bit before making my choice.

I got my dye at rockler. You mix it yourself, its in a powder form and you mix it with hot water. All I did was measure it out with a scale in grams and then mix it with the hot water. From the sample you posted its a pretty light color you will need so if you can go to a rockler store you can get a few different colors and play around with it and figure out what works for you. After you get the color correct all I did was spray it on with a squirt bottle like what you use for windex.
If you have any questions give me a holler.
Doug

No selection on the stain color. However, my wife liked the color of the ones that inspired us. Here is a pic.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album2/Large/Column3.jpg

HD has a crappy selection so I will probably try out Sherwin Williamns to see what they have. I may even see if they can match the sample in the above pic if the department store will allow me to borrow something small to take over there.

How do you plan on routering out all those grooves? You are going to have to make a real precise jig to get each line on each column precise. One little slip and it's time to build and veneer a new column. What ever you do, try to do some pratice cuts to get the feel of what you have to do.

Ruben

I'd use the table saw to cut the grooves. Put the whole column on a sled and set the blade height appropriately. All you have to worry about then is making sure you are cutting each column symmetrically. Should be nice and easy. You can then ease the edges with sandpaper if you want a softer line.

I got my dye at rockler. You mix it yourself, its in a powder form and you mix it with hot water. All I did was measure it out with a scale in grams and then mix it with the hot water. From the sample you posted its a pretty light color you will need so if you can go to a rockler store you can get a few different colors and play around with it and figure out what works for you. After you get the color correct all I did was spray it on with a squirt bottle like what you use for windex.
If you have any questions give me a holler.
Doug
Doug,

Thanks for the info. I think I remember reading somewhere about the manual sprayer but never thought it would work. That's good to know that it does. Did you dye Maple wood? I also read that if you use water (vs. an oil based mixer) that the grain will raise up a bit. Did that happen to you?

Do you happen to have any pics of your stained wood you could share with us? I would love to see your work :)

A straight edge tool and a router would do the trick also.

That middle square would look cool with some inlayed wood of a darker color or perhaps a gold emblem to match your inlayed trim you were talking about. How about the initials of your theater name embossed into the square?


I bet if you take that pic down to WoodCraft, the pros will tell you exactly how to achieve that cut.

Ronnie

How do you plan on routering out all those grooves? You are going to have to make a real precise jig to get each line on each column precise. One little slip and it's time to build and veneer a new column. What ever you do, try to do some pratice cuts to get the feel of what you have to do.

Ruben
Ruben and rlowe,

I planned on using a router for the job. With the exception of the center square, they are all straight cuts. With the aid of a simple guide, I should be able to cut them perfectly. Luckily I do not have to deal with a curved column like Ruben. The square in the middle of the "X" (for the front columns) will require me to build a special jig. I definitely know the day I cut those, I'll take off from work. I don't trust myself trying to do it between 8:30pm and 11:30pm one weekday eve.

A table saw with a dato blade would do well for the straight horizontal cuts I need to do on all the columns but the front. However, my table saw is small and to build a table around it and a sled would be time intensive.

Oh, and YES I do plan to practice a bit on some scrap. Believe me, I don't want to make and veneer these columns again! And thanks for the vote of confidence Ruben :eek: ;) :D

A straight edge tool and a router would do the trick also.

That middle square would look cool with some inlayed wood of a darker color or perhaps a gold emblem to match your inlayed trim you were talking about. How about the initials of your theater name embossed into the square?


I bet if you take that pic down to WoodCraft, the pros will tell you exactly how to achieve that cut.

Ronnie
Ronnie,

Looks like you beat me to the post. Actually, I plan to use the same 1/2" brushed alum. inlays as I'm using on all the rest of the columns. The chairs we selected have brushed alum. legs -- so it all ties together :)

Ronnie,

Looks like you beat me to the post. Actually, I plan to use the same 1/2" brushed alum. inlays as I'm using on all the rest of the columns. The chairs we selected have brushed alum. legs -- so it all ties together :)


LOL, maybe we should team up. We seem to think alike :D

Ronnie

Update...

I planned to veneer (2) more columns this eve but got caught up in cutting the veneer. As you know with nature, each piece can be slightly different from the other. I had to lay out all the pieces to find out which ones matched each other, etc. Once I got that done, I started on the cutting. I have the front columns and the rear columns cut and ready to go :) I'm actually short veneer my two sheet. I bought everything they had last week and am waiting for a new shipment. Nice part is I can use what I have to do the faces of all the columns so everything should match. Since the sides are shallow, having a slightly different piece (if that ends up being the case) will not be that noticeable.

Bummer part is I cannot cut the side pieces until I get the new sheets of veneer. My technique is to veneer the sides 1st then the top. This puts the very thin seam along the side so it is less noticeable. So I may be at a standstill until next week. This forces me to move to the next stage -- building the frames for the fabric panels. I'm waiting on bpape/Bryan to give the final "stamp of approval" on my room before doing that (in case he has me adjust any of the column locations).

Steve,
when I did the cabinets I first sanded with 100 grit sandpaper then used 150. After that I wiped down the wood with a damp towel to raise the grain and after it dried out I then sanded with 220. What this does is raise the grain and then you knock it down with the 220 it works like a charm. You would do the same with the veneer because its probably the same thickness as the veneered ply I used. I also did solid maple for the face frames and the doors and used the same tecniques.
I sanded all of this with a random orbit sander you just have to keep it flat.
If I wasn't so techno challenged I would post pics.
The dye I used also had a alcohol based dye if you cont want to use water. At least I think its alcohol based.
Doug

Steve,
when I did the cabinets I first sanded with 100 grit sandpaper then used 150. After that I wiped down the wood with a damp towel to raise the grain and after it dried out I then sanded with 220. What this does is raise the grain and then you knock it down with the 220 it works like a charm. You would do the same with the veneer because its probably the same thickness as the veneered ply I used. I also did solid maple for the face frames and the doors and used the same tecniques.
I sanded all of this with a random orbit sander you just have to keep it flat.
If I wasn't so techno challenged I would post pics.
The dye I used also had a alcohol based dye if you cont want to use water. At least I think its alcohol based.
Doug
Thanks Doug. I'd prefer to go with the water based dye anyway because of my wife's sensitivity to chemicals -- so the sanding will be fine with me. I already have the handy orbital sander :)

Now I have a few more questions (hope you don't mind):

1) Did you spray the entire front of the cabinet 1st or just small sections at a time?
2) Once sprayed, how long before you wiped it down (if you even wiped at all)?
3) Looks as if you did not have to do any "pre-conditioning" to the wood except putting the water on it ro raise the grain?
4) What did you use for your sealer -- brand and type would be great.
5) Did you spray the sealer or apply with a brush?

Thanks!

Steve,
I used a water based polyurethane made by general finishes its from their environmentally friendly line of products. I used a gloss finish but this would not be what you want to use. They do have a satin version of the finish. I applied it with an hvlp gun and I also applied it with foam brushes it just depended on how much stuff I had to do at the time. Both ways would take a minimum of 3 coats to look the best. I didn't use steel wool between coats on most things unless there were runs. It was usually about 30 minutes between coats as long as the temps were high enough. Usually not a problem in socal. I purchased this stuff from rockler also.
If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
Doug

Oops forgot to answer most of your questions.
1) I sprayed one whole side and I soaked it pretty well.
2) Once it was soaked I wiped it off at this time its evident what needs more dye.
3) Yes the only preconditioning is the sanding and the water raising the grain.
4) The sealer was the polyurethane.
5) both
Sorry about not answering all the questions before.
Doug

Ruben and rlowe,

I planned on using a router for the job. With the exception of the center square, they are all straight cuts. With the aid of a simple guide, I should be able to cut them perfectly. Luckily I do not have to deal with a curved column like Ruben. The square in the middle of the "X" (for the front columns) will require me to build a special jig. I definitely know the day I cut those, I'll take off from work. I don't trust myself trying to do it between 8:30pm and 11:30pm one weekday eve.

A table saw with a dato blade would do well for the straight horizontal cuts I need to do on all the columns but the front. However, my table saw is small and to build a table around it and a sled would be time intensive.

Oh, and YES I do plan to practice a bit on some scrap. Believe me, I don't want to make and veneer these columns again! And thanks for the vote of confidence Ruben :eek: ;) :D
I'd think you just build a routing rig to cut the whole surface at once w/o having to use the straight edge and a separate rig for the diagonal cut. I believe it can be reuse for the side also.

Oops forgot to answer most of your questions.
1) I sprayed one whole side and I soaked it pretty well.
2) Once it was soaked I wiped it off at this time its evident what needs more dye.
3) Yes the only preconditioning is the sanding and the water raising the grain.
4) The sealer was the polyurethane.
5) both
Sorry about not answering all the questions before.
Doug
Thanks for the info Doug. Sounds like a good option for the Maple.

Just to be sure, is this the stuff you used:

Homestead Dry Dyes (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5341&SearchHandle=DADADJDFDADADDDGDJDIGCDHDBDEDDDHCNDEDGDEGDCNDEG EDBGFCNGCDCDEGBCNDBDEDIDEGBGGDEDGGBGDGFDCDADADADBDADADADADDG EHJGFDADADADEDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADAD ADADBDADADADADDGEHJGFDADADADBDB&filter=dye)

I'd think you just build a routing rig to cut the whole surface at once w/o having to use the straight edge and a separate rig for the diagonal cut. I believe it can be reuse for the side also.
hvn4179,
Thanks for the suggestion. Interesting suggestion -- I might need to play around with that option to see how it works.

The 1st thing that comes to mind is a 4 sided triangle (center point would be flat to match the square in the middle of the inlay. Kind of like this:

http://swithey.gotdns.org//swithey/ht/misc/jig1.jpg

I problem I see with this jig is I may not get the center square as crisp as I need it. Remember I'm inserting alumumum "U" Channel edging into the grooves.

Outside corners are not a problem for getting sharp edges with a routing jig. All of the corners in your shape would be outside corners. You may have a hard time holding the fig in place, a nice strong double-sided tape might work.

Good Luck and have fun,

Brian

Steve,
I just went out to the garage and that is the brand I used.
Doug

Why not save yourself a lot of hassle and route the 'X' and then the WHOLE square. Then add the square back in later.

I agree with the jig concept. Build yourself a template out of plywood that does the X and the square at the same time, clamp it to the piece and use a plunge router and be done with it. You'd have consistent cuts for all the columns. Doing individual cuts leads to human error, you want to eliminate that.

Bud

Outside corners are not a problem for getting sharp edges with a routing jig. All of the corners in your shape would be outside corners. You may have a hard time holding the fig in place, a nice strong double-sided tape might work.

Good Luck and have fun,

Brian
Brian,

You might be right. The "hold your mouth just right" cut is where the diag. line intersects the square in the middle. I need to end that cut at exactly the right spot so not to take off any material on the inside edge of the square. Doable but not something you want to attempt after a few beers ;)

Why not save yourself a lot of hassle and route the 'X' and then the WHOLE square. Then add the square back in later.
Brian,

I thought about just doing the "X" then reattaching the square. The issue is having the maple grain match up with the surrounding grain. One idea (if I went your direction) if to buy something exotic for the center (stained dark brown like the walls). A few woods I've always loved are Bubinga, Burlwood and Birds-eye Maple. When I was over at Woodcraft the other day, they had a bag of a dozen or so of various veneers (some rather exotic) for I think $20 (8" x 14"). This might be a low cost way to get the wood I want without having to purchase an entire 4x8 sheet.

Bubinga
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/bubinga.jpg

Burlwood (lots of character in this wood)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/burlwood2.jpg

Birds-eye Maple
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/Birdseye Maple.jpg


Veneer Pack at Woodcrafters
http://www.woodcraft.com/images/family/web5169big.jpg

However, one flaw in my plan -- will it be okay if these are the only (2) places in the room with this type of wood? I did not plan to have the "X" accent in any of the side or rear columns because that area will be covered up with grill cloth. I am planning to build a shallow but wide bar table behind the HT seating -- could use that wood there (but that might get rather expensive for such a unimportant fixture (looks wise) in the room). Heaven forbid a wet glass left a permanent ring in the wood because a guest forgot their coaster :eek: :D

I agree with the jig concept. Build yourself a template out of plywood that does the X and the square at the same time, clamp it to the piece and use a plunge router and be done with it. You'd have consistent cuts for all the columns. Doing individual cuts leads to human error, you want to eliminate that.
Bud, yes an all-in-one jig may be the way to go. I need to come up with a jig design. However I am with you on the human error factor here and would love to minimize that as much as possible. I can't seem to think up a single piece design that could handle the inner square and angled sides. I'm almost thinking it will need to be a 2-piece design -- just can't think of it yet. Ideas?

Steve,
I just went out to the garage and that is the brand I used.
Doug
Doug,

Thanks for the confirmation. I need to go out there anyway to go look at these small 4" deep cans ronnie_jackson found. They look like a great solution as "accent" lighting on top of my columns (because I have limited depth on (2) of them).

http://webpages.charter.net/jackson.ronnie/avs/slights/tray_lights.jpg

I personally think that doing the Burlwood or BirdsEye for the square would be another one of those 'little details' that really make it stand out - especially when surounded by the metal.

You might also want to check out Myrtle Burl or Cocobolo

Bud, yes an all-in-one jig may be the way to go. I need to come up with a jig design. However I am with you on the human error factor here and would love to minimize that as much as possible. I can't seem to think up a single piece design that could handle the inner square and angled sides. I'm almost thinking it will need to be a 2-piece design -- just can't think of it yet. Ideas?

I think a 2 part jig would be best. Basically the main part would be an X-shape that you would clamp down to the surface and with that you would be able to cut the X and everything out of the center. Then, and second part that would be a semi U shape that would slide into 2 legs of the X and whatever distance out to hold the router from incorrectly cutting the center.

I can probably draw up a quick sketch in paint if I'm not explaining myself very well.

*EDIT* I drew up a picture real quick... Blue part is Jig #1 - Red is Jig Insert. So if you were cutting the line from top left to top right the red would be inserted in the bottom.

Nelson

Steve,
there are a couple ways to do it you could take a piece of ply and make a jig for the x and then make a jig for the square cut and route out the square and add the birdseye or whatever you decide after.
The other is make 1 jig with the x and the square in it but only make half of the jig so it would be three points of the x and half of the square. Cut one side and then flip it around and finsh the other side.
Either one of these would be easy to make a little bigger so you can easily clamp them to your column.
I hope this makes sense.
Also I vote to put in the different wood in the front columns it wont look strange I thinks it would look very good.
Doug

Steve, using a differernt wood for that center piece was exactly what I was trying to explain earlier. I think thats an awsome idea. Would make your jigging easier also.

I think it would look great. You could easily change it out if you dont like it.

Ronnie

A couple of questions, and then a suggestion, Steve.

The questions are regarding the veneering (and this goes for any of you veneering experts that are following this thread, of course):

1) Why do you need to bondo/fill-in the imperfections in the MDF? The veneering covers it, and I imagine there's enough direct contact between the MDF and veneering to allow you to skip this step. (I realize Ruben did the same thing)
2) Were/are you set on crisp, 90 degree angles on your columns? I'm curious why you didn't route out an outside curve and wrap one piece of veneer around the entire column.. or was the veneer not wide enough?
3) I understand how the craft paper would be useful; however, is the idea just to get it as close as possible (and possibly overhang the surface you're applying it to and trim it off), and just ensure there are no major bubbles (that can't be removed with the roller)?
4) Are you planning on using grain filler? (I'm guessing not based on the relatively grainless appearance of the design photo)

I think the column design looks great. My suggestion is regarding the jig for it. I'd stay away from your original jig design, since you'd have to be extremely careful not to "overshoot" the jig and end up with a slightly curved routing mark. In other words, tracing an angle on the outside of it is prone to mistakes. I would create a jig that is a square with a concentric square hole, and you just do the square first. Then a simple, straight line jig at an angle to connect the corner of the square with the corner (edge) of the column.

Keep up the great work -- I'm actually looking forward to veneering at some point. It's an amazingly beautiful result from a relatively simple and inexpensive process.

Tim,
I hope you dont mind me answering a couple of your questions.
You use bondo to fill in imperfections because the veneer will follow them and you will see it through the veneer.
If you route in a quarter round on the edge of the column it will be too tight and the veneer can't bend that tight it will probably break at that point.
The craft paper just keeps the 2 pieces apart so you can position them because once they touch thats it they are stuck for good there is no pulling it apart and doing it over its throw it away and start over.
I hope this clears up a few points for you.
Doug

Tim,
I hope you dont mind me answering a couple of your questions.
You use bondo to fill in imperfections because the veneer will follow them and you will see it through the veneer.
If you route in a quarter round on the edge of the column it will be too tight and the veneer can't bend that tight it will probably break at that point.
The craft paper just keeps the 2 pieces apart so you can position them because once they touch thats it they are stuck for good there is no pulling it apart and doing it over its throw it away and start over.
I hope this clears up a few points for you.
Doug
Thanks for the info, Doug. However, I still have a few questions.. How thick is the veneer? I'd imagine it's something like 1/8" thick (haven't worked with it.. only seen it in passing), and would imagine a brad won't make enough of a divot to effect the exterior of the veneer.

Secondly, regarding the wrap around at a 90 degree angle (on a rounded corner of course).. I know that will work since Ruben (SandmanX) did it with his column box (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7160099&&#post7160099) and light tray/soffit (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6709871&&#post6709871). Although I'm guessing he had to use two sheets to do the rounded soffit that's at the front of his theater; I don't think he mentions whether he had to do that, though.

I think a 2 part jig would be best. Basically the main part would be an X-shape that you would clamp down to the surface and with that you would be able to cut the X and everything out of the center. Then, and second part that would be a semi U shape that would slide into 2 legs of the X and whatever distance out to hold the router from incorrectly cutting the center.

I can probably draw up a quick sketch in paint if I'm not explaining myself very well.

*EDIT* I drew up a picture real quick... Blue part is Jig #1 - Red is Jig Insert. So if you were cutting the line from top left to top right the red would be inserted in the bottom.

Nelson
Nelson,

Yes, I follow you on the jig. This would work well if removing the material for the center square was okay. With that said, I'm going to do a few tests to see if I can be steady enough to keep the center square in tact. DLilley/Doug had a good idea to cut the square 1st then the "X" after that with a 2nd jig.

When I veneer the column, I plan not put glue in the exact area where the center square would be. This would allow me to just cut that veneer off and have a nice place to add an exotic veneer -- accomplishing the look without the need to re-add the square center piece.

I like both options and will try both (and report back). Either way, I end up with the same result.

A couple of questions, and then a suggestion, Steve.

The questions are regarding the veneering (and this goes for any of you veneering experts that are following this thread, of course):

1) Why do you need to bondo/fill-in the imperfections in the MDF? The veneering covers it, and I imagine there's enough direct contact between the MDF and veneering to allow you to skip this step. (I realize Ruben did the same thing)
2) Were/are you set on crisp, 90 degree angles on your columns? I'm curious why you didn't route out an outside curve and wrap one piece of veneer around the entire column.. or was the veneer not wide enough?
3) I understand how the craft paper would be useful; however, is the idea just to get it as close as possible (and possibly overhang the surface you're applying it to and trim it off), and just ensure there are no major bubbles (that can't be removed with the roller)?
3) Are you planning on using grain filler? (I'm guessing not based on the relatively grainless appearance of the design photo)

I think the column design looks great. My suggestion is regarding the jig for it. I'd stay away from your original jig design, since you'd have to be extremely careful not to "overshoot" the jig and end up with a slightly curved routing mark. In other words, tracing an angle on the outside of it is prone to mistakes. I would create a jig that is a square with a concentric square hole, and you just do the square first. Then a simple, straight line jig at an angle to connect the corner of the square with the corner (edge) of the column.

Keep up the great work -- I'm actually looking forward to veneering at some point. It's an amazingly beautiful result from a relatively simple and inexpensive process.
Tim,

-- Looks like Doug answered #1.

-- On #2, yes, I could have easily rounded the edges with a simple quarter-round bit and used a single sheet of veneer. In fact, I was playing with the veneer and because it's only about 1/16" thick (maybe 1/32" more) it could almost do a 90deg turn (but I'm not going to take the chance). But to answer your question as to "Why didn't I radius and use a single piece" is all the fault of the 1/2" "U" shaped brushed aluminum inlays I plan to use. I want a crisp look and those inlays wrap all the way around to back on each side of the column. If it was rounded, the inlay would stick out a bit (since I was planning to have them about 1/16" to 1/8" embossed into the surface of the MDF). The 90deg turn they will make around the side forces the corners to be a nice as as sharp as possible.

-- #3a - Doug answered this one perfectly -- thanks again Doug. To add, if there is a low spot, the veneer may be stuck for X about of time, but may eventually lift off and create a bubble.

-- #3b - No grain filler needed. Maple has a very tight grain and that is one reason I picked it.

Thanks for the info, Doug. However, I still have a few questions.. How thick is the veneer? I'd imagine it's something like 1/8" thick (haven't worked with it.. only seen it in passing), and would imagine a brad won't make enough of a divot to effect the exterior of the veneer.

Secondly, regarding the wrap around at a 90 degree angle (on a rounded corner of course).. I know that will work since Ruben (SandmanX) did it with his column box (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7160099&&#post7160099) and light tray/soffit (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6709871&&#post6709871). Although I'm guessing he had to use two sheets to do the rounded soffit that's at the front of his theater; I don't think he mentions whether he had to do that, though.
Tim,

The bondo was mainly to cover up mistakes "I" made when putting together the columns. As you know, when cutting wood on a table saw, you get the occasional dip in the wood because you coughed or push too hard at the wrong time, etc. These dips transferred onto the column as divots. Some of them were 3" long x 1" tall (given there might have only been a 1/32" of an inch deep) but that might have shown up under the veneer. As far as brads, yes, they "might" have been hidden but sometimes the brad gun does not counter-sink them into the MDF all the way. I needed to use my own countersink (which created a slightly larger hole) and I think that would have been noticeable through the veneer. Bpape will tell you that I have my "perfectionist" moments -- this was one of them, so we filled every hole we could find. However, I would say, I noticed a few that we missed when veneering and you CANNOT see them at all once the veneer is applied.

BTW -- I used wood putty for the smaller holes and bondo for the larger divots. The bono is great because it applies and sands easily -- but man does it have an strong epoxy odor. I had to air out my garage the entire next day to get the odor out.

Steve, using a differernt wood for that center piece was exactly what I was trying to explain earlier. I think thats an awsome idea. Would make your jigging easier also.

I think it would look great. You could easily change it out if you dont like it.

Ronnie
Okay, I think you guys convinced me to use a different wood in the center square. I just need to run it by the wife and see what she thinks.

Yes, I follow you on the jig. This would work well if removing the material for the center square was okay. With that said, I'm going to do a few tests to see if I can be steady enough to keep the center square in tact. DLilley/Doug had a good idea to cut the square 1st then the "X" after that with a 2nd jig.

The insert stops you from removing the center square and does the cut around it. You'll run the tests and find a way that works for you anyhow. :)

Nelson

The insert stops you from removing the center square and does the cut around it. You'll run the tests and find a way that works for you anyhow. :)

Nelson
Nelson,

Yes, I figured that was the case but was not sure. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the input.

But to answer your question as to "Why didn't I radius and use a single piece" is all the fault of the 1/2" "U" shaped brushed aluminum inlays I plan to use. I want a crisp look and those inlays wrap all the way around to back on each side of the column. If it was rounded, the inlay would stick out a bit (since I was planning to have them about 1/16" to 1/8" embossed into the surface of the MDF). The 90deg turn they will make around the side forces the corners to be a nice as as sharp as possible.
Ah, yes. A perfect reason/requirement to avoid the rounded corners.

The bondo was mainly to cover up mistakes "I" made when putting together the columns. As you know, when cutting wood on a table saw, you get the occasional dip in the wood because you coughed or push too hard at the wrong time, etc. These dips transferred onto the column as divots. Some of them were 3" long x 1" tall (given there might have only been a 1/32" of an inch deep) but that might have shown up under the veneer. As far as brads, yes, they "might" have been hidden but sometimes the brad gun does not counter-sink them into the MDF all the way. I needed to use my own countersink (which created a slightly larger hole) and I think that would have been noticeable through the veneer. Bpape will tell you that I have my "perfectionist" moments -- this was one of them, so we filled every hole we could find. However, I would say, I noticed a few that we missed when veneering and you CANNOT see them at all once the veneer is applied.

BTW -- I used wood putty for the smaller holes and bondo for the larger divots. The bono is great because it applies and sands easily -- but man does it have an strong epoxy odor. I had to air out my garage the entire next day to get the odor out.
Yep, that makes sense. I was wondering if they were all that noticeable. It's good to know that you couldn't see the ones you missed. I'm also enough of a perfectionist that I'll do the same, but was wondering if there was another reason, and how much effort to put into something that's covered up. I imagine I'll do a similar thing with mudding the drywall that will be covered by fabric. Just a skim mud coat that's flat (and barely needs to be sanded).

Thanks again for the explanation.

Thanks again for the explanation.'
Tim,

Glad I could clear it up for you. Feel free to ask questions as it might help guide me in a "better" direction on something I'm doing :)

BTW -- I'm probably going to steal your design for the projector mount. I plan to make something very similar. Hope you don't mind.

Update…

Before I get started on the update, I want to thank yldesyde/David for all his help on the project so far. His assistance has helped speed things up and (since he’s an engineer) has given some beneficial advice on design aspects of the project. I also want to thank all my fellow AVSers for your suggestions and support. OK, OK, I’m moving on already ;)

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_CompletedSide1.jpg ... http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_CompletedSide2.jpg
Here is the completed panel. Some of these will be filled with 1” OC703 insulation to help absorb sound in the room, some will have a DIY version of diffusers like these HERE (http://www.silentsource.com/diffusors-rpg-diffusor.html) hidden inside and the remainder will be empty. This particular panel is 63.5” wide x 22” tall x 1.25” deep. The design consists of the same strategy GPowers/Greg used for his panels HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=487747). My room will need (52) panels of various lengths. Yldesyde/David and I put together (3) so far. I’ll have a detailed how-to soon..

2nd Pic is a side view. I put a 45deg angle on the side to add a chiseled effect between the panels.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_CompletedFront.jpg
Top view: 3.4” MDF


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_CompletedBack.jpg
Back View: ½ “ Ply


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_CompareFront.jpg ... http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_CompareBack.jpg
I built (2) prototypes before I arrived at the final panel design.

-- The 1st one used ¾” MDF on edge cut at 1” tall with ¼” Luan as a backing on the sides only. This design was a bit flimsy because the MDF had too much flex side-to-side and the ¼” Luan did not provide enough support.

-- The 2nd one was my second attempt as a stronger design of #1. It used the same MDF setup as #1 but instead of the ¼” Luan, it used ½” OSB (NOTE: I planned to use ½ Ply in the final design but only had OSB on hand at the time). This design was about 70% stronger than #1 and was the direction I planned to go with.

-- However, after talking with bpape/Bryan, he said Gary’s design HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=487747) was easier to build and probably a stronger design. I concurred and decided on the 3rd panel as my final choice. The 3rd design used a sandwiched design – ¾” x 1.5” wide MDF on top and ½” x 1.5” plywood on the bottom. I used ply on the bottom for strength and also a good medium to hold the staples for the fabric I plan to stretch over the frames.

2nd pic is the back of the panels.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_Plywood.jpg
Here in the raw ply and MDF for the panels. NOTE: I only bought a single sheet of MDF because I had a bunch of scrap left over in the garage to make up the difference.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_Rip2.jpg
We needed to rip the ply and MDF into 1.5” wide slats.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_Rip1.jpg
Here is the opposite angle of the ripping process. That’s yldesyde/David on the right.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_BeveledEdge.jpg
After the panels were ripped, we needed to add the 45deg bevel for the chiseled effect I was after.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_Dirty2.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_Dirty1.jpg
Finally, we completed all the cutting. (60) 1.5” x 8’ long slats of ply and (60) 1.5” x 8’ long slats of MDF. Here is the garage floor and myself covered with sawdust after the cutting.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_Dirty3.jpg
Here is what the vacuum cleaner picked up during the cutting/ripping process. The vacuum hooks to the side of the table saw to get about 85% of the saw dust created when cutting the lumber. This thing is FULL.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_RippedWood1.jpg
Here are the ~120 slats of both MDF and ply


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_RippedWood2.jpg
All the slats neatly stacked up so I could park my car in the garage. Now it’s time to start putting them together. I’ll post a how-to soon.


Click HERE (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/frames/) to see larger versions of all the pics shown above.

Of course not... The best compliment is plagiarism.. I'm going to be complimenting Sandman and yourself quite a bit in a year or so.. ;)

Wow!!

That diffuser is interesting. Is that a BPape idea? Cant wait to see that done.

Ronnie

Wow!!

That diffuser is interesting. Is that a BPape idea? Cant wait to see that done.

Ronnie
Oh yes, Bryan came up with the concept. Should be a fun one to build :)

I can't take credit for that design - those are a pretty standard thing. We discussed making 2D ones but it was decided that this was too much work and probably not going to be terribly effective at this depth.

It would have been nice to have a little more depth to be able to make the diffusors effective down a bit deeper but there just wasn't space with walkway considerations, etc. But hey, might as well use the empty space to best use as long as it's available.

Also, the diffusor in the rear cabinet will help out a bit. It is more of a polycylindrical design with shelving inserted at different places to 'disguise' it somewhat. The shelves will also provide a minor amount of dispersion in the vertical dimension. Far from perfect 2 dimensional dispersion but good horizontally and better than nothing vertically.

Steve:

I feel for ya. I remember, Dec 2004, when I ripped all the slats for my frames. It was a big saw dust mess.

I did the frames in smaller batches, of 20 or so at a time over a two week time period. It helped to break up the repetitive tasks. I would make the frames from cutting the slats, assembly, fabric and applying to the walls all at one time. Plus there was progress on the walls that way.

Looks like the saw dust was just as bad using the saw vs the router. Ether way it all makes a mess.

Steve:

I feel for ya. I remember, Dec 2004, when I ripped all the slats for my frames. It was a big saw dust mess.

I did the frames in smaller batches, of 20 or so at a time over a two week time period. It helped to break up the repetitive tasks. I would make the frames from cutting the slats, assembly, fabric and applying to the walls all at one time. Plus there was progress on the walls that way.

Looks like the saw dust was just as bad using the saw vs the router. Ether way it all makes a mess.
Greg,

Thanks for the "how to" guide and confirmation. Guess I was doing it right (at least the making a mess part) :D

Since I had some help, it made sense to just rip them all at once and make the mess once. I plan to start cutting the boards to length this week. Hmm, I haven't ordered my fabric yet -- guess I need to do that soon ;)

Anyone heard from Steve lately? I wonder if he was out in the garage and got trapped under the falling pile of fabric frames?

Ronnie

He's still alive. Just got an email from him - was heading out to a doctor's appt.

He's getting the itch to buy equipment.

He's still alive. Just got an email from him - was heading out to a doctor's appt.

He's getting the itch to buy equipment.
Yes, I'm still here. I've been working feverishly on the fabric frames. I'm cutting all the wood to length and plan to have David over again so we can get them put together. To get them square (oh yes, I'm that picky), it really helps to have one person hold it (and a T-Square) steady and the other hit it with the brad nailer (all this before the glue sets).

Just too boring to take pic right now but I promise to have some when we start putting them together.

On a more exciting note, I finally nailed down the design for the star ceiling over lunch with my wife yesterday. I took her out for her BDay and we talked HT -- ain't I a romantic :rolleyes: Star ceiling will be coming next after the panels frames are done and the columns are veneered. I'm going to the wood supplier tomorrow to pick up (3) more sheets of veneer to finish the columns.

Oh goody, progress ;) Don't we have some drywalling to do before the star ceiling?

David

Oh goody, progress ;) Don't we have some drywalling to do before the star ceiling?

David
Oh yes, that is on the list. Actually, we need to relocate some A/C vents 1st. I'll be posting about that soon because I want to get some advice from everyone on this -- mainly placement options. More to come soon.

...To get them square (oh yes, I'm that picky), it really helps to have one person hold it (and a T-Square) steady and the other hit it with the brad nailer (all this before the glue sets)...

have you thought about setting up a jig for laying out the frames? it would guarantee square, speed up the process and only require one assembler.

$0.02

have you thought about setting up a jig for laying out the frames? it would guarantee square, speed up the process and only require one assembler.

$0.02
Thanks for the thought -- yes, I had considered it and still may. It would speed things up. Okay, twist my arm -- done :D

David, the forum just put you out of a job. Sorry, cannot offer you any unemployment comp but can get you a cold 6-pack :)

hehe. Didn't we talk about a jig but decided against it due to the different frame sizes? I can't remember. I suppose we could make something with a standard hight but adjustable width; maybe on a pegboard or something. I'm already gettign unemployment comp, but as you know...I work for food lolol.

Hey Steve,

Here is a site with good info about finishing and a forum moderated by an expert: http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/

I am puting together a false wall with solid maple door and panel construction. I have never finished maple so I am in the same boat. I purchased an HVLP system recently and it looks like it will come in handy when applying the top coat.

I will share my experience with you when it happens :)

Hey Steve,

Here is a site with good info about finishing and a forum moderated by an expert: http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/

I am puting together a false wall with solid maple door and panel construction. I have never finished maple so I am in the same boat. I purchased an HVLP system recently and it looks like it will come in handy when applying the top coat.

I will share my experience with you when it happens :)
I've seen that site before but never noticed they have a forum -- thanks for bring that to may attention. And YES, I would love to hear feedback on the staining process. I'll probably start mine in a few weeks myself.

Quick Update...

I picked up the last 3 sheets of Maple veneer this afternoon (I bought everything the store had last week and had to wait for their next shipment). Once I get the panels completed, I'll re-start on the veneering process.

To get them square (oh yes, I'm that picky), it really helps to have one person hold it (and a T-Square) steady and the other hit it with the brad nailer (all this before the glue sets).



I did not have a helper and also want to keep the frames square. So when assembling the frames i used a framing square (see the picture below, it is in the lower right corner of the frame).

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames03.jpg

You could bid a jig out of a box (yes, thats square), then assemble the pieces inside the job to ensure that exach frame is squared. Just a thought.

Bud

On a more exciting note, I finally nailed down the design for the star ceiling over lunch with my wife yesterday. I took her out for her BDay and we talked HT -- ain't I a romantic :rolleyes: Star ceiling will be coming next after the panels frames are done and the columns are veneered. I'm going to the wood supplier tomorrow to pick up (3) more sheets of veneer to finish the columns.

Steve-I'm not sure if you want to get as fancy as this for your starfield, but I used the following site Heavens Above (http://www.heavens-above.com/skychart.asp?Y=2006&M=3&D=15&H=18&N=14&Lat=33.02&Lng=-96.699&Loc=Plano&TZ=CST&SL=on&SN=on&BW=1&SZ=1000 ) entered my lat and long here in Plano on my wife's b-day (Okay a little suck up for indulging my project) to get pretty exact star line up-(I've attached the image it generates) I then superimposed the image into my ceiling diagram in Visio to get the layout for each of my panels. This will be my first step on my theater -starting this weekend.

Also-I bought my starfield parts from this e-bay seller Fiber Optic Products. He seemed to be the most affordable that I could find, plus the illuminator holds up to 1500 cables-he even custom made a ferule for me as my ceiling is sizeable at 18'x20' and will have about 20 runs. Additionally-he sells a starpack field that has 3 different fiber optic diameters in each cable to create "a more realistic" star field.

Why stop there for a star ceiling? You can have your own Planetarium for $239.00!! lolol

http://www.audiocubes.com/product/Segatoys_HomeStar_21st_Century_Home_Planetarium.html

You could bid a jig out of a box (yes, thats square), then assemble the pieces inside the job to ensure that exach frame is squared. Just a thought.

Bud
Bud,

Unfortunately, I do not have a box the size I need (but good, simple idea). I do have an extra sheet of 1/2 ply we can use. Just screw on some corner jigs and we're set. With this design, both David and I can each do a panel at the same time. We plan to work all day tomorrow and hopefully we'll get them all knocked out (at least the frame part, not he GOM covering).

And, yes, I'll post pics of the process so everyone can learn from our mistakes :D

Steve-I'm not sure if you want to get as fancy as this for your starfield, but I used the following site Heavens Above (http://www.heavens-above.com/skychart.asp?Y=2006&M=3&D=15&H=18&N=14&Lat=33.02&Lng=-96.699&Loc=Plano&TZ=CST&SL=on&SN=on&BW=1&SZ=1000 ) entered my lat and long here in Plano on my wife's b-day (Okay a little suck up for indulging my project) to get pretty exact star line up-(I've attached the image it generates) I then superimposed the image into my ceiling diagram in Visio to get the layout for each of my panels. This will be my first step on my theater -starting this weekend.

Also-I bought my starfield parts from this e-bay seller Fiber Optic Products. He seemed to be the most affordable that I could find, plus the illuminator holds up to 1500 cables-he even custom made a ferule for me as my ceiling is sizeable at 18'x20' and will have about 20 runs. Additionally-he sells a starpack field that has 3 different fiber optic diameters in each cable to create "a more realistic" star field.
bdtank,

Thanks for the ebay seller. I was planning to purchase from this place:

http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/Endglow.htm

However, comparing pricing of the fibre itself, your ebay guy (http://stores.e*b*a*y.com/Fiber-Optic-Products - remove "*" for link to work) is about 1/2 the price. SWEET! His illuminators are a bit more expensive (but hold more fibre) so I need to see what I need and which one will work better for my size starfield. I plan to make mine about 1/2 the size of yours (9.5' x 7.5') and it will be surrounded by a maple coffered ceiling. But, with the pricing you found, I may need to re-think it a bit to see if larger would look any better.

As far as the star "layout" -- well done. Good WAF. I've always enjoyed the Orion Constellation and plan to incorporate that into my star ceiling somehow. As far as what will be around it, I'm still working on that. However, your Visio trick is a good way to "see" what it will look like before I actually do it. My wife will LOVE that -- she is a very visual person.

Why stop there for a star ceiling? You can have your own Planetarium for $239.00!! lolol

http://www.audiocubes.com/product/Segatoys_HomeStar_21st_Century_Home_Planetarium.html
Funny you say that. In the beginning of my HT design, I thought that something like that would be cool and add an educational aspect for the kids too :) However, this thing would be right in the middle of the seating area -- almost like having R2-D2 sitting next to you during a movie :D

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/couch.jpg

Update…

David and I made some frame progress on Saturday. I will tell you than these things take more time that either of use had envisioned. We worked all day Saturday and only completed 12 panels – putting our total completion at 15 panels (52 needed). David, thanks again for all your help – without it, I think it be Super Bowl ’07 before this sucker got done :D.

We’re getting faster at it but it still takes some time to make these things. We did build a crude jig but I have an idea to make a better one that is a bit more adjustable. The nice part is we are using a constant height model – all panels are the same height but varying widths.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/15_Panels_Completed.jpg .. http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Completed_Panels1.jpg
15 of 52 panels completed. We still have a ways to go. Looking at them from left to right, these are the locations for these panels: Rear Wall – Right Side, Rear Wall – Left Side, Right Wall – Center, Left Wall – Center, Left Wall – Rear. To give you perspective on their size, they are leaning up against a 6’ fence.


Here is the process we used to create the panels:

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_Rip1.jpg
Rip ½ ply and ¾” MDF to 1.5” wide strips


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panels_BeveledEdge.jpg
After the panels were ripped, we needed to add the 45deg bevel for the chiseled effect I was after.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panel___Assembly.jpg
Create a jig (just scrap ¾” MDF screwed to an extra piece of ½” ply in our case). The height is constant, so we only had to change one side for different panel widths. Place 1st layer of ½” ply down into the jig.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panel___Ply.jpg
Here is the 1st layer of ply fitting snugly inside the jig.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panel___Ply_Layout.jpg
If you look closely, we used an alternating corner model so that when the second later of ¾” MDF was applied; all seams were covered up making a more secure bond.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panel___Glue.jpg
Apply glue to all surfaces. I cannot stress the glue component enough. Until the glue truly sets, these things are still a bit flimsy and have a bit of movement from side to side. However, once the glue dries, these things are solid as a rock.


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panel___Competed.jpg
Apply top layer of ¾” MDF alternating the corner seam from the ½” ply underneath.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panel___Nailing.jpg
Once applied and lined up, we used a brad gun and 1” brads to secure the wood together while it dried ((4) brads in the corners and brads above spaced out about ever 6” along the board).


http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panel___Deep_1st_Layer.jpg http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/Albums/Album11/Large/Panel___Deep_Completed.jpg
I utilize (2) different panel depths in the room. Left, Front and Right walls use a 1.25” deep panel and the rear wall uses a 2 5/8” deep panel. I am using a deeper panel on the rear wall because I plan to put some 2D diffusers back there (see post #222) and possibly some 2" OC703. Here is a picture of the deeper panel. It is constructed of (2) layers like the thinner ones but the bottom layer is a ripped down 2x6 to ~1.75” (2x6 used because I could get 2 rips out of each piece of lumber) with a layer on ¾” MDF of top.

If you want to view larger version of any of these pics, click HERE (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/frames/).

Great work Steve (on the panels and the theater). I did faux wainscotting - which is just picture frames made of molding, with my meager handiman. We did (I think 25 or so frames). The book said it was a weekend job, took us 10 days of labor. By the end of it I had a new miter saw and nail gun. What a difference the right tools make. We found a jig to be the way to go. We only made it for one corner (frame sizes varied), and rotated it around.

I have been following your thread closely since I hope to go panel road myself one day. Keep up the good work - - 37 to go.

Great work Steve (on the panels and the theater). I did faux wainscotting - which is just picture frames made of molding, with my meager handiman. We did (I think 25 or so frames). The book said it was a weekend job, took us 10 days of labor. By the end of it I had a new miter saw and nail gun. What a difference the right tools make. We found a jig to be the way to go. We only made it for one corner (frame sizes varied), and rotated it around.

I have been following your thread closely since I hope to go panel road myself one day. Keep up the good work - - 37 to go.
Dave,

Thanks for the response. We tried both a single corner and an entire side jig design. The issue came up when we have to rotate the frame around to do the other corners. It was so flimsy, we were worried the brads might pull out. So, that's why we went with the slightly less efficient (4) corner model. I'm glad yours worked -- however, I am curious how "turning" it went -- or was your corner "jig" movable around the frame?

Ahh, yes 37 to go. My wife did a quick calc yesterday and said 3 more "full" days at the rate we were moving :( I just put my hands over my ears and went "la la la -- I can't hear you) :D

Nice work Steve. Jigging is the only way to go. I will have to steal that one if you dont mind. :D

How heavy are those rear panels made out of the 2x6's as compared to the others? I will be doing a 2" depth on my rear wall also. Just wondering if the velcro method is going to hold those up.

Ronnie

Nice work Steve. Jigging is the only way to go. I will have to steal that one if you dont mind. :D

How heavy are those rear panels made out of the 2x6's as compared to the others? I will be doing a 2" depth on my rear wall also. Just wondering if the velcro method is going to hold those up.

Ronnie
The rear panels are a bit heavier than the others but not crazy heavy. I would think velcro all the way around would still hold them. I'm still considering some type of "hook" structure to hold the panel weight to the wall and the velcro to keep 'em tight so they don't vibrate. It looks like I will have a ton of 1/2" ply firing strips left over which would do well for making some french cleats on the back of these panels. It will obviously add 1/2" more depth to the panel but do not think that will be a problem. I'll probably prototype a few designs (as I did with the panels) to see what works.

BTW -- steal all the ideas you want. I plan to steal some of yours too :D

Dave,

Thanks for the response. We tried both a single corner and an entire side jig design. The issue came up when we have to rotate the frame around to do the other corners. It was so flimsy, we were worried the brads might pull out. So, that's why we went with the slightly less efficient (4) corner model. I'm glad yours worked -- however, I am curious how "turning" it went -- or was your corner "jig" movable around the frame?



Well, it was just pine moldings. We would use liquid nails at the joints, clamp them in position, and put two brads in for the first two corners, one brad in for the last two (it was more stable then). There was a whole awful mis-adventure tied to me figuring out that the "finish" nailer isn't the small one, rather the brad is. So we had all kinds of problems with me not getting the angle on the nail perfect, and it jutting out the backside of the molding. The pieces were still flimsy on the turns, but they were generally only about 30 inches long, so we could stabilize it reasonably well as we went.

It was completely awful to do, but when the room was done, my wife and I were thrilled with the result.

A side note - my wife was pregnant when we were doing this with our daughter. Our daughter would "jump" in utero when the nail gun went off. Later at the birthing classes we saw the video where they mentioned that baby's can, apparantly cry in utero, and often do so in response to a startle or loud noise that penetrates in. So apparantly we were bad parents. As a bonus though, our daughter really doesn't startle to loud noises. Very handy now when she sleeps through the everyday crashes and bangs in the household. Especially since it is war if she wakes up to early.

Well, it was just pine moldings. We would use liquid nails at the joints, clamp them in position, and put two brads in for the first two corners, one brad in for the last two (it was more stable then). There was a whole awful mis-adventure tied to me figuring out that the "finish" nailer isn't the small one, rather the brad is. So we had all kinds of problems with me not getting the angle on the nail perfect, and it jutting out the backside of the molding. The pieces were still flimsy on the turns, but they were generally only about 30 inches long, so we could stabilize it reasonably well as we went.

It was completely awful to do, but when the room was done, my wife and I were thrilled with the result.
Glad to hear others are going through the same pain. I aknow exactly what you mean about getting the angle wrong and having the nail poke through the other side.

A side note - my wife was pregnant when we were doing this with our daughter. Our daughter would "jump" in utero when the nail gun went off. Later at the birthing classes we saw the video where they mentioned that baby's can, apparantly cry in utero, and often do so in response to a startle or loud noise that penetrates in. So apparantly we were bad parents. As a bonus though, our daughter really doesn't startle to loud noises. Very handy now when she sleeps through the everyday crashes and bangs in the household. Especially since it is war if she wakes up to early.
LOL!! My daughter was the compete opposite. I would sneeze from across the room and she would start crying. To this day, she is very sensitive to really loud noises. -- AND we didn't have the nail gun noise like you did. One good thing is when she is sleeping, she could sleep through just about everything except thunder -- that freaks out both my kids. Thanks for the laugh.