Just wondered if I did the same as jjsaustin and upgraded from my 4805 to the IN72 can I still find a way to use the Chief mount I have, or do I have to get a different mount? I like the quick snap off feature of the Chief and it's easy to adjust.

Guys, in72 have different picture to say the least due to that g*y DNX.
It excells in deinterlacing and displaying NTSC material, but sucks hard at PAL/576i/25fps. Screen door is just unbearable....

All,

Well, I sold my 4805 yesterday for $475. Told the person no DVI and I'm not sure he even knew what DVI was and he didn't seem to care. He was just going to run XBOX and DVD over component. I think I'm going for a IN72 for ~$720. I think what I will be getting for the extra $250 will be (rank ordered):

1) a quieter projector,
2) 2 digital inputs vs none (one for Bravo and the other for my HD box),
3) a warranty (my old 4805 was over 2 yrs old and out of warranty),
4) a slightly better picture,
5) and bulb with 0 hrs on it vs my 4805 had ~900hrs
6) Sealed optics

I originally posted my message on the 4805 board, but thought I might get more feedback from IN72 owners.

Also what other projectors did you consider in the sub $1K range? If you got a really good price PM me.

Aside from the fuse problem, have people been pretty happy with these?

Thanks!

you'll be very happy with it. the picture is really only slightly brighter which will be irrelavant after about 500 hours. i did notice what i thought to be slightly better CR on my HCMW screen, but it could be that the IN72 is better calibrated out of the box than the 4805. as long as you don't have super high expectations on a better picture, you'll be happy. one other thing i noticed is that the IN72 appears to me to handle SD tv better than the 4805.

you'll be very happy with it. the picture is really only slightly brighter which will be irrelavant after about 500 hours. i did notice what i thought to be slightly better CR on my HCMW screen, but it could be that the IN72 is better calibrated out of the box than the 4805. as long as you don't have super high expectations on a better picture, you'll be happy. one other thing i noticed is that the IN72 appears to me to handle SD tv better than the 4805.

I'm not expecting the picture to have any significant differences, that's why it is donw on my list. Should I be concerned about SDE as mentioned above?

I have the In72 three months ago, and all I can say is that the difference with my preview 4805 image is not barely; really there's much difference:

The image is more clean and even focused; the deinterlacer is superior to the faroudja in standard definition tv (I can read the small letter scrolling in the bottom of the screen now), all this despite the obvious advantages in sealed optics, noise, aesthetics, dvi imput, swive base.....

The In72 it's a great projector for people like me that don't see Hd and it's a big improvement in form and function over my lovely SP4805.

Chichopf,

I'm sure there is a big difference on SD material, but I only watch HD and DVD, so I'm not expecting that much difference. How about SDE as lynziod suggests?

SDE bothers some people more than others. personally, i can live with a little. i owned a panny 700 and the soft image it produced (smoothscreen) drove me nuts. i'd trade a sharper picture with some SDE over a soft image any day. i sit pretty close, i've never measured, but i'm easily 1.24-1.5X screen width on my in72. 2-2.5X would be ideal. if you can sit 2-2.5X back, SDE will not be an issue. it's funny, i actually sit farther away from my in76 than i do my in72. it's really just a matter of room setup. if you're a front row movie kind of guy, then save your money and go 720p. if you're leaning towards optoma, i'd tell you to think long and hard about it. if you want something that works very well out of the box with an incredible image, and really very little if any tweaking to be done, go with an infocus. you won't be disappointed.

For those looking for the long ago promised IN72 calibration review - it is on my website.

Kras, I noticed your review didn't mention results for HDMI, only component. I'd expect the HDMI input to be at least as good, am I wrong?

Martin

There usually are insignificant differences - I think tint (hue) was a bit more perfect in HDMI RGB - the PW decoder is maybe a culprit here - as I notice the yellows being tad off on 720P YPbPr on the IN76 as well. But the install was using component 480i- so I only wasted my time on what I was getting paid to do! It gets rather expensive in time to review the matrix of all inputs and all resolutions - but sometimes that is necessary to find a flaw. Even though the full reviews are thrown in with installs or calibrations if something new - I still don't like to work completely for free - and just do the 1-2 inputs the customer wants.

I am still burning in my IN76 demo - I only checked it quickly when new - it really only gets a workout on SciFridays. But since they share the same PW - I will try to get more of the inputs done on it.

I noticed DaGamePimps MitsuHC3000 is red pushing the HDMI YCbCr last time I was over - but then I have since seen two other customers with the same Toshiba HDDVD player - with red push. So seems you have to watch out for red pushing players now! This IN72 install had been connected to a old Panny 480i analog player - and even that old player was red pushing - had to notch color down a click - a tradeoff since red push was helping the cooler yellow - but I don't like sunburnt faces. Last projector I was calibrating even red pushed the HDMI RGB input which you would not expect - which meant it was running the already decoded video back thru the video decoder. I recall an older Optoma which only on the 1080i YPbPr was decoding secondaries as if the white balance was 9300K - all the others were fine.

But I think any flaws like this on different inputs would be obvious to the critical eye - while measured differences are otherwise insignificant (once they are adjusted and calibrated properly). I use a reference video generator - so if there were any flaws in the video decoder they would have been caught - otherwise it gets turned into RGB which should then give same result as HDMI RGB.

Thanks Kras, much appreciated.

Congrats to DaveDander, Gartseff, jjsaustin, and the many others that went on over to woot and kicked the crap out of the morons degrading the IN72 and other projectors in general. Hilarious! :)

Hi Guys,
I have had my IN72 for about three months.
Love it so far.
I watch Standard Cable through it now, sports look great compared to regular tv shows.

I want to upgrade to a digital box or HD box.

It is 8.95 a month for the digital or the HD box.

So my only question is, will I see a better picture with the HD box using the IN72?
Or am I better off with the digital box?

I have read this post and have seen it mentioned but nothing clear cut.

Thanks.

HD cable boxes are also digital....and HD looks better than SD on the IN72.

RCA DRC257N UpConvert DVD <--- Garbage
Sony DVPNS75H <--- Way better than that RCASpend a whole $35 and join the revolution (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=660701). Buy a Bravo D1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16882680001) (and a cable from Monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10238&style=))!

You won't get a better PQ on your IN72 from any other player.

Hi Guys,
I have had my IN72 for about three months.
Love it so far.
I watch Standard Cable through it now, sports look great compared to regular tv shows.

I want to upgrade to a digital box or HD box.

It is 8.95 a month for the digital or the HD box.

So my only question is, will I see a better picture with the HD box using the IN72?
Or am I better off with the digital box?

I have read this post and have seen it mentioned but nothing clear cut.

Thanks.

spend the dough. get a HD DVR.

$9 a month is a small price to pay for HD, not to mention the DVR feature. Watch TV on your terms and not anyone else's. :)

spend the dough. get a HD DVR.

Why buy when you can rent for $15 per month ($180/yr)? You can bring it back on a whim and no need to worry about a warranty. The Tivo's Series 3 are going for $700+. That means I would have to one that puppy 5 years on order to save money. The problem is 3 yrs from now the technology will be out dated and the disk size will be way to small.

However, watching HD on the 4805 is impresssive and worth the $15/mo for the box and the DVR.

sorry, i should have been more clear. i'm talking about your local cable provider's hd dvr set top box rental. it's worth it imo, yes.

Sorry I am slow on the uptake, what does teh Bravo have to do with HD Cable?

IN72/4805 question. What would be the smallest screen that you could use without crushing the colors/image?

The current promotion on the IN72 looks sweet and I have a 32" wall mounted LCD HDTV in the bedroom that I am not happy with. I can't see the text (Scores, Guides, etc) from 14' away. I have been thinking of upgrading to a 42", but with the IN72 deal I could sell my 32" and buy that if the Wife will approve. I now have a 4805 and am very happy with it and maybe I should look for one of those still new since I have a spare bulb. (SP-lamp-021 vs the LAMP-025 IN72) But I guess that is a moot point since I probably don't spend more than 250 hours a year watching TV in the bedroom.

Ayhow, I was just wondering what the smallest screen size would be for a IN72/4805 without de-grading PQ. Hmm, aLso I would need another D1 and cheapo 5.1 system for audio. Heck, I paid $1050 for my 32" LCD 1 year ago, I could have everything I need for less than that with the promotion and or upcoming promo's.

speed

The problem is that brightness is an inverse function of area - so the smaller you make it the brighter it gets. The smaller it gets the sharper it gets as well.

You might try projecting onto black posterboard if it gets that small! Great blacks and not too bright!

As far as rationalizing upgrade pricing from TV's - whatever works to get the WAF on board. I have always thought the best place for the SP4805 was in the bedroom so couples could enjoy their special DVDs the kids cannot ever see :D

speed

The problem is that brightness is an inverse function of area - so the smaller you make it the brighter it gets. The smaller it gets the sharper it gets as well.

You might try projecting onto black posterboard if it gets that small! Great blacks and not too bright!

As far as rationalizing upgrade pricing from TV's - whatever works to get the WAF on board. I have always thought the best place for the SP4805 was in the bedroom so couples could enjoy their special DVDs the kids cannot ever see :D

LOL! Thx Kras, that is a good idea about the screen type aand I like the increase in sharpness/brightness. I need to measure the projected area, I'm thinking around 50-60 inch fixed diag screen. Do not want it to BIG, those special movies for couples at night make other things small in comparison. :D

Sorry I am slow on the uptake, what does teh Bravo have to do with HD Cable?
cavu was implying that you should scrap that Sony "upconverting" player you listed in your signature and get the Bravo D1. It's a paltry $35 and will most certainly make the Sony look like "Garbage" in comparison.

cavu was implying that you should scrap that Sony "upconverting" player you listed in your signature and get the Bravo D1. It's a paltry $35 and will most certainly make the Sony look like "Garbage" in comparison.

Ah ha, now that I look back at what he quoted it all makes sense :)

This Sony is incredible, I can't imagine a better picture aside from HD or BR.
I will have to look into that. Will I get more screen door with an even better picture?

Thanks for the links Cavu.

Update on my (2x) dead IN76:

I thought I'd update on my twice dead IN76 in the case that it might help others in similar situation now or in the future:

Last time, repaired projector shipped on Tuesday one week following receipt, so I've been monitoring closely today....and decided to call and bug the tech support in the hopes of finding out more info on status. First CSR was able to determine that they were in the process of replacing power supply and ECA Board again--BUT: ECA board is on back-order. Put me through to next level to determine status of ECA b/o. Second level was unable to determine estimated date of repair, but offered to send out replacement unit instead.

Now, the replacement unit will not be new, unfortunately, and I may take a hit on the lamp as I had only 120 hrs or so on mine, but I went for it on the basis of time, there was no charge (call two weeks ago, was told exchange would be $99) and he upgraded the shipping.

So I've got my fingers crossed and a new surge protector and we'll go from there. Oh, and I've got a question: SD doesn't look so hot on my IN76 in my setup--would it be of any use to have an IN72 in the closet for backup? Or would everything just look like SD does on my IN76? (I mean, upscaled DVD is OK, but SD DirecTV is horrible. This could be DirecTV's fault....I mainly watch football)

LOL! Thx Kras, that is a good idea about the screen type aand I like the increase in sharpness/brightness. I need to measure the projected area, I'm thinking around 50-60 inch fixed diag screen. Do not want it to BIG, those special movies for couples at night make other things small in comparison. :D

Maybe that says something about guys with larger screens I dunno. :p

I was running a 60" diag SilverStar - insanely bright plasmer like. I now have a 6' Draper HiDef Grey - which has toned it down considerably.

OFF: guys, asking for help really... being in russia, chances of getting Brava D1 direct is pretty slim.

If anybody of respectable sirs here would get one for me then ship it to Moscow (i know completely how, i work in import/export), i will gladly pay extra, and surely pay for all upfront.
Really appreciate it, sorry to mods for OFF,
email is skymoscow@gmail.com or PM. Thanx

From Infocus's quarterly report, I'm guessing more price drops/rebates coming for the in72. They took a write down on the "remaining" inventory of the in72. Doesn't sound like this model will have a long shelf life.
============================

The third quarter 2006 results include a number of noteworthy transactions combining to increase the reported loss for the quarter by $10.1 million, or $0.25 per share. The details of these transactions are as follows:
A $1.6 million inventory charge to cost of goods sold related to the write down to estimated net realizable value of remaining inventory and commitments for the IN72, the company’s entry level home product;

Hope they stick around long enough to honor their warranties. If anyone knows of a rebate type pricing for the In72, please let me know. I need to know a price quote is good for a few days while I offer my 4805 for sale.

Hi kras, most likely the wrong thread, however, didn't want to start a new threas to ask one simple question:

Is the HD3 Darkchip the same as the DC3 Darkchip?

Thanks.

Hope they stick around long enough to honor their warranties. If anyone knows of a rebate type pricing for the In72, please let me know. I need to know a price quote is good for a few days while I offer my 4805 for sale.


Today, $200 price drop in IN72 with free screen at INFOCUS. BB and CC have dropped their prices too.

I picked up my HD Time Warner box today.
All I can say is "HOLY CRAP" what a huge difference between SD cable and HD cable. Also the digital channels look great too.

I am running it through the component for now. I just need to pick up a DVI cable.

I love the fact that the IN72 has DVI, HDMI, Component, Composite, and S-Video connections.

Now I use HDMI for my DVD, S-Video for my computer, and I will use DVI for my HD cable.

Never thought TV would be so fun! Thanks for the help for those who chimed in.




Hi Guys,
I have had my IN72 for about three months.
Love it so far.
I watch Standard Cable through it now, sports look great compared to regular tv shows.

I want to upgrade to a digital box or HD box.

It is 8.95 a month for the digital or the HD box.

So my only question is, will I see a better picture with the HD box using the IN72?
Or am I better off with the digital box?

I have read this post and have seen it mentioned but nothing clear cut.

Thanks.

right on. congrats. it's nice isn't it?! :D

i've got about 1400 hours on my in72 now since april. we use it as our primary tv in our living room and it's on a LOT.

it's a great PJ for the price.

now go get yourself a Bravo D1 from newegg.com and do the capacitor replacement and see what all the fuss is about in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8802346#post8802346post8802346

;)

right on. congrats. it's nice isn't it?! :D

i've got about 1400 hours on my in72 now since april. we use it as our primary tv in our living room and it's on a LOT.

it's a great PJ for the price.

now go get yourself a Bravo D1 from newegg.com and do the capacitor replacement and see what all the fuss is about in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8802346#post8802346post8802346

;)
I would but I bought the Sony a few weeks ago and I can't imagine a better upconvert.

I am holding out for an HD or BR player early 2007.

dude, $35 + a 1.99 part from radio shack. it will give that upconverting sony a run for the money, seriously. 1:1 pixel mapping over dvi at 48Hz. pixel perfect match with no 3:2 pulldown motion judder. it's pretty incredible.

i own the HD-A1 and it is a worthy upscaling player. it's a toss-up, but the advantage goes to the D1 for sure. 480p definitely doesn't get any better.

So my IN72 just died.

The lamp has often taken more than a minute to come to full brightness. (The manual says it might take a minute.) (The error code, three blinks, was "lamp failed to ignite.") It ran fine for several hours last night. Tonight the bulb in low power mode was flickering, so I put it in high-power mode. The flicker went away. (The lamp also got noticeably brighter in low-power mode as well.) Then a couple of hours later I came back to find it dark, no power light.

Pulling the power hasn't helped. This really sucks, especially since this projector (two months old) was a replacement for my H30, which suffered a premature bulb failure about five months after I got it. I hope there's actually a warranty repair department left at InFocus.

I'm assuming the complete failure is the fuse problem discussed here previously. It's quite a coincidence that it happened only a couple of days after the lamp failed to light proerly... the projector has been running every day for 3 months. But what's up with the lamp taking more than a minute to brighten up? Has anyone seen that before?

Thanks,

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

Mercury vapor lamps take up to 15 minutes to come up to 100%. Nothing unusual there.

-W

Hi all,

Just got my IN72 and fired it up on the wall. The picture was pretty good but I took a look at the lens from the side while it was running just to see if there were any fingerprints or dust on the lens. I noticed a small (metallic?) thing going diagonally across the light path in the upper left (facing the projector). It doesn't cover a lot of area but it seems out of place. Is this normal or did something get knocked out of position in transit?


Dave - (D1 and Da-lite in transit)

Anyone who knows..

Is there anyway to tell before ordering that you are getting the latest
IN76 firmware upgrade and the 2 amp fuse?

What does the IN76 version 2.6 upgrade (10/25/2006) fix/correct/etc.?

Thanks...

Anyone who knows..

Is there anyway to tell before ordering that you are getting the latest
IN76 firmware upgrade and the 2 amp fuse?

What does the IN76 version 2.6 upgrade (10/25/2006) fix/correct/etc.?

Thanks...

Good question. I just got my IN72 on Friday and am wondering if my fuse is the 1A or 2A as well. I have version 2.7 installed and it said it was done for "mfg reasons" (don't know if this is related to the fuse or not).

Version 2.6 was done for "improved fan control and audible noise" and other reasons see the link below for the IN72.

I know a few people complained about noisy projectors, maybe they should check the firmware and upgrade. From a noise perspective, my IN72 is much quieter than my previous SP4805. I hooked it up and HDTV/Bravo-D1 looks awesome. Even in SD football looked pretty damn good. Very happy with the upgrade from the 4805 and will be sticking withthis until 1080p is cheap.

http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&soft=in72

I need to upgrade my firmware, but 60 bucks just for the cable is a rip off. Anuone know a better source?

...I hooked it up and HDTV/Bravo-D1 looks awesome. Even in SD football looked pretty damn good. Very happy with the upgrade from the 4805 and will be sticking withthis until 1080p is cheap.

http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&soft=in72

Thanks for the response. Hate to ask an ignorant question but what is the Bravo D1? Are you getting your HDTV of the air, sat., or cable?

Do you know if you really have to get a new cable to take advantage of upgraded firmware? Why?

Thanks...

InFocus has dropped the prices of the IN72 to $799 and the IN74 to $1699.


Eric

Now, if that's the list for the IN72, will there be some discounting at retail levels? This is getting close to an affordable sideways move from my 4805.

Anyone who knows..

Is there anyway to tell before ordering that you are getting the latest
IN76 firmware upgrade and the 2 amp fuse?

What does the IN76 version 2.6 upgrade (10/25/2006) fix/correct/etc.?

Thanks...

http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&soft=in76

2.4 back last summer was the last mention of improved fan noise.
2.6 from last month looks like it fixed a minor HDMI quirk and a pixel offset.

J

Whoa, I must have missed posts about a 2 amp fuse. Can someone give me the skinny on this, I might buy a second hand, but six hours old IN72 soon..

Thanks for the response. Hate to ask an ignorant question but what is the Bravo D1? Are you getting your HDTV of the air, sat., or cable?

Do you know if you really have to get a new cable to take advantage of upgraded firmware? Why?

Thanks...
The Bravo D1 apparently is THE dvd player to get for wither the 4805 or IN7X series projectors connected via DVI. They can be had for $35. There is an entire thread devoted to this. The picture is as pure as you can get at this resolution (ie. not D2A, A2D, scaling) going on. See the link below. I am using HDVT via Time Warner Cable. As for the FW , I have never upgraded my FW on my projector, but others have. I believe the cable is needed in order to feed the data into the M1 port. You can probably use an adaptor, but I don't know.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=660701&highlight=bravo+d1

Now, if that's the list for the IN72, will there be some discounting at retail levels? This is getting close to an affordable sideways move from my 4805.

It was a small upgrade (pricewise) for me, but much improved PQ (10 bit processing vs 8bit), low fan noise, better optics, 2 digital inputs, not to mention the benefits of a new projector (warranty, 0 hrs on bulb, etc). You can pick these up for ~$650. Pretty cheap!

http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&soft=in76

2.4 back last summer was the last mention of improved fan noise.
2.6 from last month looks like it fixed a minor HDMI quirk and a pixel offset.

J


I spoke with INFOCUS today. The 2.7 FW came out in July (2.8 was released in Oct). He thought that with the 2.7 FW chances were much better than not that you would have the 2A fuse. Only the early projectors shipped with a 1A fuse

the in72 rocks. as does it's big brother, but the in72 is a terrific value and throws an amazing picture.

Now, if that's the list for the IN72, will there be some discounting at retail levels? This is getting close to an affordable sideways move from my 4805.

After a $300 Rebate mine was 700$ in August.

10 bit processing vs 8bitThe SP4805 uses 10-bit processing.

The SP4805 uses 10-bit processing.

I know some of the processing is 10 bit, but according to Bob Williams the 4805 uses an old 8bit decoder, whereas the IN7x uses full 10bit.

================== Excerpt from Bob's posting ============
3. Please explain the advantages of Pixelworks vs Faroudja and "2D" vs "3D".

This is a complex question with mutliple viewpoints so I will probably clarify some of the points later. There are 3 technical reasons for the move away from Faroudja.

- The Faroudja deinterlacing solution for projectors has fallen behind the times in that it cannot do advanced deinterlacing for high resolution interlaced sources such as 1080i. The Pixelworks deinterlacer does not have this limitation.

- The Faroudja chip requires the use of relatively old video decoders because of very tight timing requirements and therefore we have always been forced to use an 8-bit video decoder with it. For the Pixelworks solution we are using a brand new 10-bit video decoder.

- InFocus has a very good relationship with Pixelworks since the company was formed by former InFocus employees and it resides about a mile away from our headquarters in Oregon. This allows us to have quick turnaround for any issues we are seeing, allows us to access the full performance of the hardware in the shortest time period, and lets us have some say in their future roadmap of offerings.

Can someone please tell me what's up with the fuses before I buy the wrong IN72. Thanks.

Can someone please tell me what's up with the fuses before I buy the wrong IN72. Thanks.

I don't think you can buy the wrong IN72, unless it is older inventory. Again, according to infocus, version 2.7 shipped in July and the fix must have happened shortly after that. The person thought that if I had 2.7 that it was very likely that I would have the updated fuse.

If you give them a serial number they can tell you for sure.

Thanks JJ, but perhaps I missed a post or two. What I'm asking is what was the problem with the fuse in the first place. There are two people selling the IN72 that I know. If it's an earlier model then I need a different fuse?

I know some of the processing is 10 bitAll of the processing is 10-bit.the 4805 uses an old 8bit decoder, whereas the IN7x uses full 10bit.Irrelevant as all digital sources are only 8-bit anyway.

The 10-bit versus 8-bit "argument" deals with the processing area where manipulation of the 8-bit signal in 8-bit space can cause double-rounding errors which appear as banding in the image. These errors do not occur when the 8-bit signal is processed in 10-bit space.

AFAIK, the decoder referred to is only used on the analog inputs and doesn't cause the artifacts mentioned.

I am looking into buying a IN72 projector to replace my old projector that I had to move to my restaurant recently. My question is whether it has enough lumens to work on a 133" DaLite screen with 1.0 gain?

I have a dedicated, light controlled room that is 22' by 16' and I sit about 15' from the screen. My old projector is a Sharp XR-11C and even though it is a 1024 by 768 projector and not really suited for home theater use, it has 2000 lumens and was bright enough for that large of a screen. I want to get an inexpensive projector to hold me over until the 1080 ones come down in price. I mainly use the room to watch movies on regular DVDs and occasionally I will watch sports or regular TV off my comcast HD DVR box.

I have this great room with no projector now and I want to get something pretty quickly. I have also looked at the Panasonic PT-AX100U, but I am not sure I want to go that route when I know I will want to change out to 1080 next year when they come down in price and the HD players are more proven.

My question is whether it has enough lumens to work on a 133" DaLite screen with 1.0 gain?It will give you 13.7FtL at low power with a new bulb. 12FtL is a good target brightness. You may have to go to high power if the lamp dims too much as it ages.

You should also mount the projector at 17ft to get the maximum brightness out of the lens.

Thanks JJ, but perhaps I missed a post or two. What I'm asking is what was the problem with the fuse in the first place. There are two people selling the IN72 that I know. If it's an earlier model then I need a different fuse?

Martin,

Some people have reported that the 1A fuse blows and it is soldered to the board. Some people have replaced it themselves with a 2A at the risk of voiding their warranty, others sent their unit back in and IF puts in a 2A. Not everyone with the 1A fuse saw this problem, but I can't say how prevelant this is.

All of the processing is 10-bit. Irrelevant as all digital sources are only 8-bit anyway.

The 10-bit versus 8-bit "argument" deals with the processing area where manipulation of the 8-bit signal in 8-bit space can cause double-rounding errors which appear as banding in the image. These errors do not occur when the 8-bit signal is processed in 10-bit space.

AFAIK, the decoder referred to is only used on the analog inputs and doesn't cause the artifacts mentioned.

So, I wonder if there is any benefit using the 10bit video decoder....

Maybe Bob could clarify?

Thanks JJ.

So, I wonder if there is any benefit using the 10bit video decoder....

Maybe Bob could clarify?

The contrast/brightness controls are 10-bit - so if you properly calibrate the video decoder itself being 8b is not an issue since it requires no (and has no) adjustments. It would only be an issue if was not calibrated to give the decoder a full range signal, or if the video decoder was flawed and needed adjustments. the output of the video decoder would then be 8b RGB - the same as when you use DVI RGB which is limited to 8b. Since the source is 8b - the only advantage is to provide for adjustments - but Infocus does not allow adjustments of the video decoder - because that is the part they got right and you don't need to mess with it. Even if it was an issue causing banding/dithering - the Faroudja has a video filter to lower the bandwidth of chroma and such rounding errors would get filtered out. The PixelWorks does not have this filter and would show any decoder issues - and is adjustable (though Infocus does not allow access) - so better for it to be 10b.

Everything else is 10b - which is why the SP4805 is said to be 10b - it is 10b where it mattters. The SP7205 for example had 8b contrast/brightness controls - which required using RGB gain/bias to offset for Video levels.

Basically the people going on about 8b vs. 10b - have not a clue about video system design and don't know what they are talking about. Ignore them. These are the same people that buy DVD players because they have 14b DACS - but don't realize they have a 8b contrast control hardcoded to blow out the whites - and they are actually using the 8b DVI output....and not the 14b DAC (which is wired for 8b - the lower 6b are grounded - solely to provide a better DAC spec)


Bottom line - nobody every complained about grainy SP4805 performance - and certainly not IN7x performance. NOT an issue.

For those of you who are cheap like me and think paying for a cable to upgrade InFocuses antiquated software is ridiculous, I decided to inquire with InFocus as to a solution to paying 60 bucks for the cable to upgrade the firmware.

I know a short cable can be had for 20 bucks on e-bay, but I am not satisfied that they expect you to cough up money to upgrade their product. Any way below is the email thread.



[QUOTE]----- Original Message -----
From: Jamie Hall
To: Carl
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: RE: Web Question


Honestly we will not be able to answer the “why” aspect of your question on why we do not include firmware upgrade cables standard.



At one point I heard that we do not provide the video cables because there are many different options for you to use and we let you purchase what you need rather than add additional cost to the item for a cable you may not use.



The part numbers that will allow you to get the updates for less are;

- 210-0232-01 $17

- 516-0050-01 $15



You may need to purchase this over the phone at 800-660-0024 as these may not be on the webstore.


Jamie Hall
E-Commerce and Sales Specialist





PHONE
FAX
800.294.6400 x8118
503.685.8736

27700B SW PARKWAY AVE
WILSONVILLE, OREGON 97070-9215




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Carl [mailto:cuthe@rochester.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:01 PM
To: Jamie Hall
Subject: Re: Web Question



Hi Jamie,

I am not sure what "following cables" you are referring to.

The link in the email you sent takes me to the home page of your website. When I drill down to accessories and cables, I see the same 60 dollar cable.



I still wonder why the consumer is left having to pay to upgrade a product that is not operating as it should. This should be a free service just as any product that has software updates does.



Please point me to the "considerably less" priced product, so I can pay you more money to update your product. As I mentioned there is no link or listing for the "unbranded cable" in your response.



Thank You,

-Carl

----- Original Message -----

From: Jamie Hall

To: Carl

Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 4:12 PM

Subject: RE: Web Question



Thank you for your purchase,



We have the following cables which are technically the same as the $59 cable, but not packaged in a branded box.

The price is considerably less and I hope this extra information helps in your situation.



Jamie Hall
E-Commerce and Sales Specialist





PHONE
FAX
800.294.6400 x8118
503.685.8736

27700B SW PARKWAY AVE
WILSONVILLE, OREGON 97070-9215


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Carl [mailto:cuthe@rochester.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:45 AM
To: websales@infocus.com
Subject: Web Question



Hi,

I have the Big Play IN72.

This is a great product and I am very pleased with it.



After some research I see that there are many firmware upgrades that the projector needs to operate at the level it is intended to. I also see that just to get these updates a consumer would have to spend 60 dollars on a cable to be able to perform the upgrade of the firmware.



That seems odd that a consumer would have to pay for hardware to upgrade the InFocus software that needs updating.



Is there an alternative way to do this? Does InFocus provide this as a free service at authorized repair dealers? Or possibly loan the patch cable with a deposit?



As I mentioned the projector is great, and I hope InFocus has a consumer friendly way of handling this.



Thanks

-Carl
[QUOTE]

Looks like to me they said you could buy the $15 cable - so what is the complaint?

Would you rather they pack in all the cables anyone might need? A 50' HDMI - a 30' Component, a 9' Svideo? Would you rather they raise the price so you can throw away cables you do not need?

None of the firmware updates are necessary to upgrade to - they are product enhancements that Infocus does as a courtesy to it's existing customer base that chooses to upgrade. As a local dealer I would do it for someone that bought from me - but most of them would get annoyed if I insisted on coming to their home every quarter just because there was a firmware update "for manufacturing reasons". And guess what - I charge more than online vendors do so they have the opportunity for "free" in-home support. The last time I did it the guy tipped me $50 gas money since he did not think it needed it and I fixed his center speaker while I was there.

If you had a warranty issue that required factory return - they surely would make sure you are updated as well.

Other projector manufacturers consider firmware upgrades to be factory updates requiring a projector return- or worse save them for next years products and never update their products. So $15 for a USB/M1 adaptor cable is rather reasonable when you divide it by updates for the life of the product. The SP4805 even had an update despite it was end of life the next month and replaced with the IN72 - and it had been out for more than two years.

Seems to me you were bent on ignoring the fact that customer service was bent on helping you with a cheaper way to get the upgrade - customer service reps do not make policy. Ask to speak to a manager if you wish to discuss policy next time. Save the reps time to actually help someone that is willing to be helped - otherwise the next time you call - it will be outsourced help who probably will not have known about the $15 cable.

Most everyone else that bought Infocus looked on the fact that they could update the firmware themselves as a positive benefit - rather than an indication of defective factory software.

The last I looked I have to pay annually if I want to get software updates anymore - support is no longer free in the software world.

I am very sorry if I offended you or InFocus.
From reading this thread and other research, I do see that the upgrade is necessary for multiple reasons. Mainly to compensate for the deficiencies they had with the original software. I am new to projectors and I don't know how other manufacturers handle these situations.

From my past experience items that I own that require software updates have been free updates with no additional equipment to access the software.

I was not aware of the $15 cable hence the initial email to customer service.

I will say I was just trying to post some info that a less savvy projector owner (such as myself) may benefit from to understand why they are expected to buy a cable to upgrade the product.

I still feel (no matter how "special" you are) that this projector should have come with the necessary cable for updates, whether you agree with me or not. That is my opinion.

You sure know how to make people feel welcome.

I complained about InFocus, and you complained about me. Feel better?

Just wondering if anyone has further info about which serial # marks the beginning of the 2A fuse for the IN72? Also, have people received their money from the 6/20-8/31/06 rebate?

Bluto,

I agree with you, an upgrade cable should be included. I have had to sent my pj back for service due to the fuse issue, if I could have upgraded the firmware, maybe it could have been avoided. But who knows, I assume that was the problem, no information came back with the pj stating what the problem was. I due appreciate your e-mail to Infocus, I never considered finding out about a cheaper option. I like the reply that was sent by Infocus about not know why the cable is not included. I got a cable with my MP3 player to update the firmware (it loads the music but also updates the firmware).

I'm not trying to upset other with it (or were you), but thanks for your efforts. I'm going to pick up one of those cables "just in case".

Reed

Reed, I looked on thier site and as Jamie suggested you will have to call them to get the super secret deal.
The ones on ebay are very short, so I would reccomend calling InFocus for theirs istead.

My IN72 still flickers..... 118 hours on lamp, tryed hi-power for a cpl of hours - no help...

Darn you infocus

My IN72 still flickers..... 118 hours on lamp, tryed hi-power for a cpl of hours - no help...

Darn you infocusI have the same issue but since I just got mine, I sent it to InFocus to get it fixed. I think your best bet, as long as you have warranty, is just to get a RMA and send it to the pros to fix.

Yes, just like you, I'm annoyed that my brand new IN72 was "broken" but it happens. I'm just glad InFocus customer/tech support was prompt in issuing me a RMA # (got the # 30 minutes after I called). They said the turn around is 10-15 business days on average, so hopefully I'll have the pj back before turkey day. And just so you know, you do have to take up the shipping cost to them although they ship it back to you at no cost. As long as it's an one time issue, I'm not gonna make a big deal about this out of the blue additional cost.

And for the record beside the flicker issue, the pj was/is pretty pimp.

I was using my projector today, just like everyday, and I was playing on my xboix 360 when all of a sudden the image went dark, and then the light bulb turned off. Its like the projector turned off but now it wont turn on.

I dont know if this has anything to do with a fuse or something, but it wont turn on. There is no red or green light by the power button. I dont know if anybody else has had this problem.

I had not problems at all until this ans I have had this projector for maybe a few months now. I emailed infocus but just wanted to know if anybody here could help me.

I was under the impression that the IN76 was capable of producing a 2:35:1 image from its native 16:9 image by adding a anamorphic lens and without adding an additional scaler/processor.

I have now read in two different articles, the latest being in Electronic House, lists of projectors that are 2:35:1 capable. The In Focus IN76 was not listed in either. Can anyone confirm that the IN76 will produce a 2:35:1 by adding only an anamorphic lens and that an additional scaler/processor is not needed? I have read in this thread that folks are getting the 2:35:1 image but I am not sure if they are using and additional scaler/processor. I understand they are using an anamorphic lens. I believe the U85 lens was mentioned but can't remember the other one. Anyone know which one is appropriate for what purpose? I know since different lens are being used there must be a reason. I would like to know before I proceed.

Thanks to those of you who have responded to my questions. This forum is a hugh help!!

I was using my projector today, just like everyday, and I was playing on my xboix 360 when all of a sudden the image went dark, and then the light bulb turned off. Its like the projector turned off but now it wont turn on.

I dont know if this has anything to do with a fuse or something, but it wont turn on. There is no red or green light by the power button. I dont know if anybody else has had this problem.

I had not problems at all until this ans I have had this projector for maybe a few months now. I emailed infocus but just wanted to know if anybody here could help me.
I am really excited about purchasing my IN76 but very hesitant to do so until some of these issues are settled. I really want a hassle free experience. From what I have read I would guess it is the fuse but I am certainly not a projector expert. Good luck. Some of you vendor folks help us out!

I was under the impression that the IN76 was capable of producing a 2:35:1 image from its native 16:9 image by adding a anamorphic lens and without adding an additional scaler/processor.Yes it works fine. Select the "Letterbox" format and use the lens.This forum is a hugh help!!We try to help more than just Hugh but he does require more attention than most! ;)

Yes it works fine. Select the "Letterbox" format and use the lens.We try to help more than just Hugh but he does require more attention than most! ;)


OK, How about "big"? Sure glad you guys are paying attention to detail.

Now, is there anyone out there who can tell me why different anamorphic lens are being used with the IN76?

Now, is there anyone out there who can tell me why different anamorphic lens are being used with the IN76?
James - maybe this will help with your questions about the IN76 and anamorphic lenses:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8232426&&#post8232426

James - maybe this will help with your questions about the IN76 and anamorphic lenses:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8232426&&#post8232426

Thanks JeffKB,
This is helpful. I had read this but could not remember the details. I appreciate the link. You do a great job of explaining. Thanks again.

Could you, are anyone else, recommend a good scaler/processor that is a not more expensive than, but a good fit to, the IN76 and anamorphic lens?

Hi all,

This thread is getting ludicrously long...

Has anyone upgraded to software v 2.6 on an IN76? Any noticeable differences?? Is it worth the effort? It sounds like it addresses 2 things I don't consider to be problems, so unless someone lists a good reason...

Also, what is up with the 2 amp fuse? Is it on all in7x's? How do I know if I have it? I assume I really don't care until it blows??

I have searched both of these and really not found good answers.

Thanks to all,

Dan

WELL I woke up and my little boy ran up to me saying he was a good boy and could he please , please,watch Cars on the big screen .so after I got all warm and fuzzy I hit the NEW IN72 power button only hearing a very faint chirp sound .
ITS dead .

Maybe a poor dissection retiring the 4805 so prematurely.
Is there any easy remedy to fix my dead in72.
No lights on and it was working fine last night before I went to bed.

I HAVE BEEN WAITING CLOSE TO 47 min on the phone while I am typing this waiting for infocus CUSTOMER SERVICE to give me my next move.
(ALL OF OUR REPRESINITIVES ARE ASSISTING OTHER CUSTOMERS PLEASE HOLD FOR THE NEXT REPRESENTATIVE.)

I think I made a mistake.

Murphy,

Did you get yours off of Woot? That's where I got mine, but I was hoping I had the 2A fuse. I'm tempted to keep a 2A fuse and and a use a couple fuse holders on hand. This way if the fuse blows, I can clamp the 2A over the soldered 1A and not void my warranty with any permanent modification.

Does anyone know if there is a spec for the 2A fuse (fast blow/slow blow/voltage etc.)?

[QUOTE=jjsaustin]Murphy,



jjsaustin I did get my IN72 from woot.

I asked about a fuse problem being reported and BOB with a English accent reported only the very first batch of IN72 not the ones sold at woot .

He states my situation is a one in a million .SORT of like waiting on the phone less then a hour to speak to a infocus rep .

I was given the chance to buy a new one so they COULD ship it out and will be credited when the receive my one in a million IN72.

That's a bummer. I'm on hold with them now. If you give them your serial number they can tell you if you have the 2A fuse or the 1A.

The previous Infocus rep I spoke with a few weeks back thought it would be "highly unlikely" that I had the 1A fuse based upon my FW version, but wouldn't know for sure unless I gave him my S/N. I called back today and gave them my S/N and I have the 1A fuse. Bummer.

Murphy you must have the 1A fuse too since they both came from Woot.

My S/N is ARTC61001413.

I guess I will cross my fingers and hope it doesn't blow.

once again I am on hold with James white from infocus
( Indian ascent ) he wants proof of purchase and is now saying we are unable to prepay for a new unit and be reimburse when they receive the old one,

Infocus customer service has definitely changed from the 4805 days.

I was under the impression that the IN76 was capable of producing a 2:35:1 image from its native 16:9 image by adding a anamorphic lens and without adding an additional scaler/processor.

I have now read in two different articles, the latest being in Electronic House, lists of projectors that are 2:35:1 capable. The In Focus IN76 was not listed in either. Can anyone confirm that the IN76 will produce a 2:35:1 by adding only an anamorphic lens and that an additional scaler/processor is not needed? I have read in this thread that folks are getting the 2:35:1 image but I am not sure if they are using and additional scaler/processor. I understand they are using an anamorphic lens. I believe the U85 lens was mentioned but can't remember the other one. Anyone know which one is appropriate for what purpose? I know since different lens are being used there must be a reason. I would like to know before I proceed.

Thanks to those of you who have responded to my questions. This forum is a hugh help!!
James,

I am using my IN76 with a Panamorph U85 lens and a HTPC/TheaterTek player. If you remove the HTPC from the equation, you could use the IN76 with this lens -- but there are a few caveats.

-- Some movies when played in 2.35:1 still have black bars on the top (almost like a 1.78:1 fixed image with the 2.35:1 image inside). When you stretch the image to "fill" the screen, the "movie" image does not go all the way to the top (because of the permanent black bars). Even using the "overscan" option does not remove them completely. JeffKB mentioned this in his other thread as something that was true of some of the older movies. I just feel like I'm getting ripped off if the screen is not "full" of image when watching a 2.35:1 movie. This is where TheaterTek comes in as I can zoom the image out even further to remove all the black bars completely. I have (2) 2.35:1 custom zoom ratios (and you can have an unlimited number of them) that I choose from when the movie is played. One other nice thing about TheaterTek is it remembers that custom aspect ratio the next time you play that specific movie -- so you set it once and never set it again.

-- I may be anal about this, but sometimes the movie (even if it is a true 2.35:1 movie with no black bars) looks squished/stretched a bit. I like natural-looking talking heads. So, again with TheaterTek, I can squeeze the image down a bit or in a bit to make everything look right. I've had to do that with some of the movies I've watched.

-- When I watch 1.78:1 content, I keep my lens in place (in fact I NEVER move it away from the projector) and change the IN76 to use the 4:3 aspect ratio -- which is perfect. High Def Football never looked better :)

In summary, you can do it without the scaler/HTPC but not all movies will work perfectly with the "fill" option. Sorry to give you some not-so-good news but I believe that these minor issues would be true with just about any projector.

My IN76 died Sunday after less than two months of use. In the middle of a ballgame it just turned off. I purchased the projector in late August and finished the theatre in September. I was loving it up to the point of this happening. Needless to say I'm not happy. Someone mentioned that they thought IF was sending out new units to replace the bad ones. I need to follow up on that since I got my RMA today and will be shipping my projector back tomorrow for repair. If I can get a new unit with all updates and fixes already installed, I'd prefer to do it that way. Anyone heard of an official replacement policy?

Jon

My IN76 died Sunday after less than two months of use. In the middle of a ballgame it just turned off. I purchased the projector in late August and finished the theatre in September. I was loving it up to the point of this happening. Needless to say I'm not happy. Someone mentioned that they thought IF was sending out new units to replace the bad ones. I need to follow up on that since I got my RMA today and will be shipping my projector back tomorrow for repair. If I can get a new unit with all updates and fixes already installed, I'd prefer to do it that way. Anyone heard of an official replacement policy?

Jon

Same thing happened to me a couple of months ago. I got back the same unit.

Guys, don't be so sure a new unit is the best move. My first 4805 was perfect, but InFocus replaced it because there was a white line down one side in 4 X 3 mode and no one knew how why. It eventually became a firmware fix. My second unit never seemed as good as the first, not as sharp or bright. It was only after I sent that one in a year and a half later and they replaced the light engine did it look as good as the original. Good luck NFR.

The previous Infocus rep I spoke with a few weeks back thought it would be "highly unlikely" that I had the 1A fuse based upon my FW version, but wouldn't know for sure unless I gave him my S/N. I called back today and gave them my S/N and I have the 1A fuse. Bummer.

Murphy you must have the 1A fuse too since they both came from Woot.

My S/N is ARTC61001413.

I guess I will cross my fingers and hope it doesn't blow.

Another woot purchaser here. Just got off the phone with IF "customer service" (combined 40 min. wait). Confirmed, 1A fuse. :mad: When have people experienced the blow? I'm just over 100 hrs. now. Has anyone received their rebate?

I was getting the typical INFOCUS customer support shuffle so I called.Patty G ( customer service manager ) she had my new projector replaced ,shipped and Delivered to my door in a total of 18 hours .( no joke ).

This woman does not mess around.

Also Called the tech support to run my new serial numbers unlike all the ones sold on Woot ( one amp fuse ) my new one has the two amper which puts a big smile on my face.

( bmrr ) sorry to here what happen mine blew within a week of use .

I think all the WOOTERS who bough their IN72 are in for a big " subfryize "

cheers.

Murph

James,

I am using my IN76 with a Panamorph U85 lens and a HTPC/TheaterTek player. If you remove the HTPC from the equation, you could use the IN76 with this lens -- but there are a few caveats.

-- Some movies when played in 2.35:1 still have black bars on the top (almost like a 1.78:1 fixed image with the 2.35:1 image inside). When you stretch the image to "fill" the screen, the "movie" image does not go all the way to the top (because of the permanent black bars). Even using the "overscan" option does not remove them completely. JeffKB mentioned this in his other thread as something that was true of some of the older movies. I just feel like I'm getting ripped off if the screen is not "full" of image when watching a 2.35:1 movie. This is where TheaterTek comes in as I can zoom the image out even further to remove all the black bars completely. I have (2) 2.35:1 custom zoom ratios (and you can have an unlimited number of them) that I choose from when the movie is played. One other nice thing about TheaterTek is it remembers that custom aspect ratio the next time you play that specific movie -- so you set it once and never set it again.

-- I may be anal about this, but sometimes the movie (even if it is a true 2.35:1 movie with no black bars) looks squished/stretched a bit. I like natural-looking talking heads. So, again with TheaterTek, I can squeeze the image down a bit or in a bit to make everything look right. I've had to do that with some of the movies I've watched.

-- When I watch 1.78:1 content, I keep my lens in place (in fact I NEVER move it away from the projector) and change the IN76 to use the 4:3 aspect ratio -- which is perfect. High Def Football never looked better :)

In summary, you can do it without the scaler/HTPC but not all movies will work perfectly with the "fill" option. Sorry to give you some not-so-good news but I believe that these minor issues would be true with just about any projector.

Thanks for your honesty Swithey. I can deal with products much better if I know in advance what the situation really is. I'm just as anal as you and would have been very disappointed after spending up to a grand on a lens to find out it wouldn't do everything I expected. I knew something was up with the IN76 when it was omitted on two list of projectors (that would do 2:35:1) that I had read. I appreciate YOUR integrity and honesty. I still feel the IN76 is the best way to go for the price.
What do you think?
Would you get it again?

Can you tell me more about your HTPC TheaterTek?
Is it a dedicated HTPC or is it software I can add to my Dell Inspiron 9100 to make it a scaler?
What does it cost?

A different anamorphic lens company has been recommended to me so if I go with it I may not have the same problems. But just the same I don't want any surprises if I can avoid them. I go through Plano on my way to Frisco a lot. If you ever want to show off your HT let me know. Thanks again--

By the way, does anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive HD off air tuner and antenna to go with the IN76?

So, my IN72 just turned off! No LED lights, nothing! And it won't turn back on. Bought it in April. There was no poof, so it can't be the bulb.... that's good right. I then get on the forum and dang there are like 20 people with the same problem. Um... I think InFocus should pay for the shipping back to them... since this is a known flaw with the projector. Anyone smell a class action suit brewing? Should we make a poll to see how many people are having this problem?

And this happened right before the Michigan VS Ohio State game!!! Are you kidding me! :eek: :mad:

Just picked up an IN76 and am very happy with its performance. Are there any settings or tweaks I should know about for best quality? What are your IN76 settings? Thanks!

So, my IN72 just turned off! No LED lights, nothing! And it won't turn back on. Bought it in April. There was no poof, so it can't be the bulb.... that's good right. I then get on the forum and dang there are like 20 people with the same problem. Um... I think InFocus should pay for the shipping back to them... since this is a known flaw with the projector. Anyone smell a class action suit brewing? Should we make a poll to see how many people are having this problem?

! :eek: :mad:


Sounds like the one amp fuse blew .Call back IF Tech and have them run your serial numbers to make sure .If they say yes then ask why they switched to the two amp fuse in future units ( they did it for some reason right ) .Then explain to them you fell they should pay for shipping. Did you buy it at woot ? My IN72 Lasted all of one week. I had a hell of a time with customer service .


Ask for Dave Burger ( manager ) if you start getting the run around and if you still have a problem ask for Patty G. ( service Manager ) she'll get it done.


She resolved my problem and had my new IN72 shipped and on my front step to within 17 hours from our phone conversation.
I hope this helps.

also if you cant go with out your Projector see if your eligible to make a ( advanced purchase ) you basically give them your credit card number and they ship out a new unit that day and you are reimbursed when they receive your old broken one ) . this should guarantee you with a newer version IN72 with two amp fuse.



hope this helps.


Murph

Hi Guys, I'm gettin' itchy for the IN72 and want to get it right the first time if possible. Has InFocus released the serial numbers that don't have the 2 amp fuse? If I buy one, I'd like to check the number before buying into a problem from the beginning. Too bad this is happening, there's someone selling a 10 hour old IN72 with extras, 35' HDMI cable, 50' S-video cable and the ceiling mount for a little less than the pj alone sells for. But if it means I'm going to have to deal with customer service soon and am not the original buyer, I might be screwed.

Does the IN72 need the offsets/gains changed to match video DVI like the InFocus 4805 did?

James,

I am using my IN76 with a Panamorph U85 lens and a HTPC/TheaterTek player. If you remove the HTPC from the equation, you could use the IN76 with this lens -- but there are a few caveats.

-- Some movies when played in 2.35:1 still have black bars on the top (almost like a 1.78:1 fixed image with the 2.35:1 image inside). When you stretch the image to "fill" the screen, the "movie" image does not go all the way to the top (because of the permanent black bars). Even using the "overscan" option does not remove them completely. JeffKB mentioned this in his other thread as something that was true of some of the older movies. I just feel like I'm getting ripped off if the screen is not "full" of image when watching a 2.35:1 movie. This is where TheaterTek comes in as I can zoom the image out even further to remove all the black bars completely. I have (2) 2.35:1 custom zoom ratios (and you can have an unlimited number of them) that I choose from when the movie is played. One other nice thing about TheaterTek is it remembers that custom aspect ratio the next time you play that specific movie -- so you set it once and never set it again.

-- I may be anal about this, but sometimes the movie (even if it is a true 2.35:1 movie with no black bars) looks squished/stretched a bit. I like natural-looking talking heads. So, again with TheaterTek, I can squeeze the image down a bit or in a bit to make everything look right. I've had to do that with some of the movies I've watched.

-- When I watch 1.78:1 content, I keep my lens in place (in fact I NEVER move it away from the projector) and change the IN76 to use the 4:3 aspect ratio -- which is perfect. High Def Football never looked better :)

In summary, you can do it without the scaler/HTPC but not all movies will work perfectly with the "fill" option. Sorry to give you some not-so-good news but I believe that these minor issues would be true with just about any projector.

It sound like you are describing the difference between 2.35 anamorphic and 2.35 letterbox. A 2.35 anamorphic DVD is formatted in a 16 X 9 frame and a 2.35 letterbox is formatted in a 4 X 3 frame. I hope the following photos helps a bit. I don't know of any PJ's that will do a stretch for a 2.35 letterboxed DVD only anamorphic. Photos were taken with lens in place doing the horizontal stretch.

2.35 anamorphic with the PJ set to 16 X 9
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/willygib/Old%20Theater/Picture004.jpg
2.35 letterbox with PJ set to 16 X 9
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/willygib/Old%20Theater/Picture003.jpg
2.35 anamorphic with the PJ doing the stretch image is good
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/willygib/Old%20Theater/Picture005.jpg
2.35 letterboxed with the PJ doing the stretch. still have black bars top and bottom.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/willygib/Old%20Theater/Picture002-1.jpg
2.35 letterbox with the proper stretch using a video processor
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/willygib/Old%20Theater/Picture001.jpg

Great shots Willy! Thanks.

Just picked up an IN76 and am very happy with its performance. Are there any settings or tweaks I should know about for best quality? What are your IN76 settings? Thanks!

defaults :D

well, actually i turned down the sync threshold a bit because my comcast stb was tweaking, but other than that, sit back and enjoy :D oh, and welcome :)

Hi Guys, I'm gettin' itchy for the IN72 and want to get it right the first time if possible. Has InFocus released the serial numbers that don't have the 2 amp fuse? If I buy one, I'd like to check the number before buying into a problem from the beginning. Too bad this is happening, there's someone selling a 10 hour old IN72 with extras, 35' HDMI cable, 50' S-video cable and the ceiling mount for a little less than the pj alone sells for. But if it means I'm going to have to deal with customer service soon and am not the original buyer, I might be screwed.

Does the IN72 need the offsets/gains changed to match video DVI like the InFocus 4805 did?

martin as far as i know there is no way to know for certain other than calling infocus with a serial number and asking nicely. i'm pretty sure i've got a 1 amp fuse as i bought my in76 and in72 when they first came out from jason at avs. i've got close to 1600 hours on my in72 without a single problem. *knock on wood*

you don't have to mess with the offsets/gains on the INXX line AFAIK.

/edit

also, i pinged kras about it and he said it's only a problem with certain regions of the country and then not even a sure thing. something to do with the power grid or something...i'm not sure. i wouldn't sweat it. the INXX is truly a great line and you'll be very happy. like i posted above, i haven't changed a thing with exception of a preset for my HD-A1 which isn't passing the proper colorspace over hdmi. i'm not getting blacker than black and my blacks are crushed. none of which is the displays fault as far as i know. there are many HD-A1 ownders experiencing the same issue including other manufacturers, like one guy with a pearl, etc. we're all hoping tosh fixes it with 2.X firmware.

Thanks billymac.

Thanks for your honesty Swithey. I can deal with products much better if I know in advance what the situation really is. I'm just as anal as you and would have been very disappointed after spending up to a grand on a lens to find out it wouldn't do everything I expected. I knew something was up with the IN76 when it was omitted on two list of projectors (that would do 2:35:1) that I had read.
James, just an FYI, the issues swithey describes is not unique to the IN76 and is not the reason the IN76 was left off any "projectors that will do 2.35:1" lists. Those lists are simply incomplete.

The IN76 supports 2:35:1 as good as any PJ in this price range, and probably better than most considering the stretch mode will work for all inputs and resolutions, which is not always the case with other PJs. If it makes you feel better to see the IN76 on a list of PJs that supports 2.35:1, it's listed on the Panamorph site:
http://www.panamorph.com/Compatibility.html

If you want a pure constant height system with the image always filling the vertical dimension of the screen exactly, then you need a scaler. Otherwise you will wind up with a slightly truncated image (if the AR is less than 2.35:1, or slight letterboxing, if the AR is greater than 2.35:1). And you'll need a scaler to handle non-anamorphic 2.35:1 content if you plan to watch any of that. That will be the case with all projectors however - at least the ones in this price forum. All of this doesn't mean you can't run a satisfying CH setup using just the IN76 (or any other PJ supporting 2.35:1). It just isn't going to be as flexible as using an external scaler. It's up to you to decide whether the added cost of the scaler justifies the benefits.

Thanks JeffKB. You, swithey (& his theater screen shots), as well as others, have been super. You guys are great!!

I'm not sure why, but "Prismasonic" is the lens that has been recommended for me to use with the IN76. After reading the AVS threads on the Prismasonic lens and visiting their web site, I feel the recommendation is valid. I really like the adjustability and remote control. Price is another matter.

Does anyone have any comments/concerns/thoughts or criticisms in going with Prismasonic instead of other brands with the IN76? I'll be table top setting the IN76 about 9" below the screen and about 18' away.

I'll also need information on external scalers that work well with the IN76/Prismasonic combination, if I go that route. I did see the external scalers that Panamorth recommends. I will be watching primarily DVDs & HD DVDs (or Blue Ray), some HDTV, and less Standard TV (if any).

Also, does anyone know who makes a good off air HD turner for the IN76? I do have a JVC D-Theater HM DH30000U Digital VCR that I might be able to use instead of an HD turner. What do you think?? Would the HD turner give me a better picture?? I appreciate everyones help as I am new to the projector world and need all the help/information I can get!

The JVC D-Theater HM DH30000U does not have an HD tuner. Only the HM-DT100U has the built in HD tuner. If you don't want SD then the new Samsung DTB-H260 looks like a decent option. I should have one next week to test.

My 5 month old IN76 just died. Litterally. Not even the green LED lights up. I checked all my power and everything is working. If the lamp blows I should still be getting power right? Possibly a blown fuse within the IN76?

My 5 month old IN76 just died. Litterally. Not even the green LED lights up. I checked all my power and everything is working. If the lamp blows I should still be getting power right? Possibly a blown fuse within the IN76?

More than likely. So many people running into this problem...

Thanks Brandon...

Just when I join Netflix and a ton of movies on the way....

Is this something i can replace myself? Seems I read somewhere the fuse is hardwired. Seems silly to have to send it back for repair just to replace a fuse....hope this isn't the case

Thank goodness I havent sold my 4805 yet! Sweet little backup....

Would I really be that disappointed getting a 72 for 1/4 the cost than a 76? I can't stand not be enticed by the value now being offered. I've been waiting for the new 720p projectors to be released so that current models would reflect the competition.

I have a 4805 with cracked light tunnel & burned bulb.
Set-up with HDdvr & 13'.5" from 92' screen.

Do you think I would see a great difference going with the 72 & Bravo D1 & HD content at this distance compared to the 76 with an upscaling Oppo. I watch 60/40 broadcast & movies. Thanks!

Really tough to see HD rez differences at 2x screen width(I assume you meant 92" diag - not 92'). Unless you are a military fighter pilot that is.

The IN72 is a bit brighter - and the IN76 is bit brighter yet. I would go with IN72 for the sidegrade unless you plan to upgrade the screen size. Real contrast is better and the lesser brightness is better for your screen size. Valuewise the IN72 MSRP has plummeted from release while IN76 has stayed put.

Thanks Kraz.

I did mean 92" diag.

If I buy directly from Infocus can I demand 10/26/06 firmware up-date & a 2 amp Fuse? I also noticed the warranty on parts/labor is only 1 year not the 2 year like the rest of the series. I guess I could gamble, or buy the extended warranty.

Thanks

IF has my IN76 as of this past Friday. I've been trying to get the repair center on the phone to ask those same questions. I want to ask if they'll be putting in a 2 amp fuse to replace the old blown 1 amp fuse, and to update the firmware, if needed, while they have it. Unfortunately, getting the repair center in KY on the phone seems next to impossible. I spent almost two hours trying Friday afternoon, but never was able to speak with anyone at the center. I even left two messages for Patti (mentioned in a previous post), but haven't heard back from her either. The folks in India are very pleasant, but can't seem to do much for me.

Sorry if this has already been answered, but do you guys recommend using some sort of surge protection as a general rule with projectors?

Jon

Does anyone know if InFocus started shipping the IN76 with 2 amp fuses before the Oct. 26 firmware came out? I have found a couple of new IN76s with 2 amp fuses but don't know if they also have the latest (Oct. 26??) firmware. As soon as I can figure this out I am ready to throw the dice. Everybody keep your fingers crossed for me. Thanks---

fingers crossed, but if you know they have the 2-amp fuse, why do you care what firmware they have. simply update it. the cable costs like $20 online.

One less thing in life to deal with would be the comfort in knowing that to buy one now you would have updated firmware. I wonder how many more updates are down the road? I guess in part it depends on how long they are compelled to support a given product and of course deveoping issues The 4805 has received 3 & the last one occurred in March. the 72 also has have 3 with a manufacturing v2.7 added. I do hope by now most of the suprises are dealt with. I know I shouldn't complain, we getting a-lot of bang/buck now days

fingers crossed, but if you know they have the 2-amp fuse, why do you care what firmware they have. simply update it. the cable costs like $20 online.


"One less thing in life to deal with..." but I do appreciate the support billymac.
Thanks I-recline!

NEW MSRP InFocus IN72 + 92" screen $599 after factory rebate!! :eek:

InFocus.com (http://store.infocus.com/escalate/store/DisplayVisitor?pls=infocus&page=HomeTheater&loginPage=HomeTheater)

Yet they won't budge on the IN76. I don't get it. They can't possibly be selling that many IN76s at the current price.

Moe

NEW MSRP InFocus IN72 + 92" screen $599 after factory rebate!! :eek:

InFocus.com (http://store.infocus.com/escalate/store/DisplayVisitor?pls=infocus&page=HomeTheater&loginPage=HomeTheater)

SWEET DEAL

I have a Chief mount for my 4805 that costs around $200. At the time I got it I wanted the best mount available and the Chief had everything a mount could have including an easy twist off teature that allows me to take iit down and put it back up again in seconds (or minutes;) without needing adjustments.

If I moved sideways for the IN72 is it possible to keep the Chief mount and simply ( or not so simply) have holes drilled to match the IN72? Would I need to lower or raise the height or can I just move the mount forward or back a bit from its present location? Almost ready to go for it today.

My 5 month old IN76 just died. Litterally. Not even the green LED lights up. I checked all my power and everything is working. If the lamp blows I should still be getting power right? Possibly a blown fuse within the IN76?


I've had an IN76 for 7.5 months (yes since they introduced) and have not had any failures. Do I have a great unit or am I on the lucky side of the statistics?

FYI,

I have a dedicated 12A circuit to my PJ power outlet and I have a monster power conditioner on that outlet. I did upgrade the firmware once to v2.4 and see no reason for another upgrade.

k

Yet they won't budge on the IN76. I don't get it. They can't possibly be selling that many IN76s at the current price.

Moe

For the IN76 Infocus is throwing in a 92" fixed frame high contrast grey screen, $699 value.

They're not succumbing to commodity market pricing with the 76 and above, at least not yet anyway.

For the IN76 Infocus is throwing in a 92" fixed frame high contrast grey screen, $699 value.

They're not succumbing to commodity market pricing with the 76 and above, at least not yet anyway.

But isn't that a deal only through Infocus? At $2999, that screen won't even make up the difference compared to some of the other online sellers.

Yet they won't budge on the IN76. I don't get it. They can't possibly be selling that many IN76s at the current price.

Moe

It's gotta come down. Although IMO the IN76 is one of the best DC2's (if not the best), that won't be enough for most people to pay that much more money. Not even me. I'm either going to buy something else or wait until the IN76 comes down.

[QUOTE=Martin Butler]I have a Chief mount for my 4805 that costs around $200. At the time I got it I wanted the best mount available and the Chief had everything a mount could have including an easy twist off teature that allows me to take iit down and put it back up again in seconds (or minutes;) without needing adjustments.


Hi Mart .

I just did the switch as you described.I had to re drill the holes in my home made mount ( monkey man copy cat ) .
As to the throw distance I seen very little if no change at all .I set my PJ so I would use no Zoom needed on the lens .
After I found the center of the IN72 close to the 4805 location I hung it up and the IN72 fit perfect.
Here's a picture of the two compared side by side .( sorry about the glair on the 4805) you can notice the location were the screws will go on the in72 just look for the little brass screws.
Also I have gotten a few email stating you are not to use the brass boss were the mount stand was bolted as it would not be strong enough to hold the Pj.


Cheers
Murph

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=660701&page=54&pp=30

[

It's gotta come down. Although IMO the IN76 is one of the best DC2's (if not the best), that won't be enough for most people to pay that much more money. Not even me. I'm either going to buy something else or wait until the IN76 comes down.

Custom installers do not want to participate in commodity markets - as commodity markets require commodity products that have lesser quality features or missing features.

Drop the discrete codes
Drop the screen triggers
Drop the RS232
Use a less sharp lens
No longer engineer D65 optical optimization
No longer do factory D65 digital calibration
No longer market brightness at D65
blowup brightness/contrast specs for the PJC database searcher
Who cares if the cinema preset is not D65 and only 600:1 and 200 lumens....
Add a clear segment to further blow up the numbers
Use a biz projector case to save money
Even better add component video input to a biz projector and slap on the HT label!
Then only send demos to reviewers who will parrot your press releases....
....


Custom installers can sell those differences as to why their product is better than what is sold online - online sellers only know how to sell the commodity that is hot that month until they discount it so much there is no money to be made - then they move onto something new the next month.

A manufacturer has a choice of offering a value price product cheaper than boutique products with most of the image quality - or offering a commodity product that is sold clik-to-buy based on specs. Infocus chooses not to play the commodity game. There will always be those who think the $1K device is the same as the $3K - but too bad for them since they equated value with price.

Kraz,
Are many Custom Installers interested in, and actually selling $3,000 projectors?

Custom installers do not want to participate in commodity markets - as commodity markets require commodity products that have lesser quality features or missing features.

Drop the discrete codes
Drop the screen triggers
Drop the RS232
Use a less sharp lens
No longer engineer D65 optical optimization
No longer do factory D65 digital calibration
No longer market brightness at D65
blowup brightness/contrast specs for the PJC database searcher
Who cares if the cinema preset is not D65 and only 600:1 and 200 lumens....
Add a clear segment to further blow up the numbers
Use a biz projector case to save money
Even better add component video input to a biz projector and slap on the HT label!
Then only send demos to reviewers who will parrot your press releases....
....


Custom installers can sell those differences as to why their product is better than what is sold online - online sellers only know how to sell the commodity that is hot that month until they discount it so much there is no money to be made - then they move onto something new the next month.

A manufacturer has a choice of offering a value price product cheaper than boutique products with most of the image quality - or offering a commodity product that is sold clik-to-buy based on specs. Infocus chooses not to play the commodity game. There will always be those who think the $1K device is the same as the $3K - but too bad for them since they equated value with price.

Whoa, calm down there dude! I said it was the best and I meant it! Why do you think I keep holding out for one! :)

Maybe I'm not giving the custom installer market enough credit. I guess I see that as being a smaller percentage of the sales, but I've never seen those #'s. I'm sure a few years ago it was a big part, but with prices coming down and projectors getting in to the mainstream I suspect that # is getting smaller.

The sad truth is that this is at least partly why Infocus is in financial trouble. They make some of the best products, but get run over by companies that make products to appeal to the masses (note, I'm not saying bad products, but just stuff aimed at a different group of people, which happens to be a larger group).

Dave G.

Custom installers sell a system - a $3K projector fits well into a $10K installed system. But they have criteria and not interested in cheap products they cannot control or have poor calibrated performance.

As AV geeks you overestimate the ability of others to do this themselves - hanging projectors, screens, speakers - running wires, designing systems is not something one will do themselves if it is not a hobby. They want to watch movies without any hassle. Obviously Best Buy's Magnolia HT thinks there is a large untapped middle market for HT products as well as all the smaller custom install shops. Anyone hanging out on AVS has a skewed perception of this market. It is like saying Jiffy Lube is doomed because you like to change your own oil.

Custom installers sell a system - a $3K projector fits well into a $10K installed system. But they have criteria and not interested in cheap products they cannot control or have poor calibrated performance.

As AV geeks you overestimate the ability of others to do this themselves - hanging projectors, screens, speakers - running wires, designing systems is not something one will do themselves if it is not a hobby. They want to watch movies without any hassle. Obviously Best Buy's Magnolia HT thinks there is a large untapped middle market for HT products as well as all the smaller custom install shops. Anyone hanging out on AVS has a skewed perception of this market. It is like saying Jiffy Lube is doomed because you like to change your own oil.

And you're trying to tell us that these very people who need help with such tasks and as you say"want to watch movies without any hassle" are the very same people who need and appreciate a projector that is precalibrated to D65 and publishes only calibrated lumens? Let's stop playing games, the reason that custom installers use a product like the Infocus IN76 is not because of truthfullness in disclosure of specs, it is because Infocus protects them and offers them sufficient markup on the product to make it worth their while. If they didn't, installers would move on to something else and honesty of specs would have nothing to do with their selection.

Moe

...No longer engineer D65 optical optimization
No longer do factory D65 digital calibration
No longer market brightness at D65
Who cares if the cinema preset is not D65....
Add a clear segment to further blow up the numbers
Then only send demos to reviewers who will parrot your press releases...

One really popular PJ comes to mind here... :D

Murphy, thanks for those shots and recommendations. I'd have to drill through steel to use the Chief mount for the IN72 though and I suspect that's not as easy as drilling through plexiglass. Hey, any reason to can't put some nice curtains on those shuttered windows, keeping them on both sides until you draw them closed for movie watching? My screen's right near a window and it so happened to be just about the size of a shower curtain, so I found a dark brown velvetlike curtain with a blackout side for around $35 and when I need it to, no ambient light gets in. It looks sharp too.

And you're trying to tell us that these very people who need help with such tasks and as you say"want to watch movies without any hassle" are the very same people who need and appreciate a projector that is precalibrated to D65 and publishes only calibrated lumens? Let's stop playing games, the reason that custom installers use a product like the Infocus IN76 is not because of truthfullness in disclosure of specs, it is because Infocus protects them and offers them sufficient markup on the product to make it worth their while. If they didn't, installers would move on to something else and honesty of specs would have nothing to do with their selection.

Moe
Moe

I think you're sounding quite cynical there Moe. InFocus' specs happen to be closer to reality than most manufacturers and their pj's are nearly perfectly calibrated out of the box, so calibrations aren't completely necessary or certainly less time consuming, which saves people money. Also, InFocus projector designs are very bright while still maintaining an excellent black level, which is a good fit for many consumers. You may not have been around here long enough to know that Kras has taken a lot of personal time to patiently help members who repeatedly ask the same questions and is one of the few installers who contributes his experience and expertise regularly, so maybe you might lighten up a bit?

And you're trying to tell us that these very people who need help with such tasks and as you say"want to watch movies without any hassle" are the very same people who need and appreciate a projector that is precalibrated to D65 and publishes only calibrated lumens? Let's stop playing games, the reason that custom installers use a product like the Infocus IN76 is not because of truthfullness in disclosure of specs, it is because Infocus protects them and offers them sufficient markup on the product to make it worth their while. If they didn't, installers would move on to something else and honesty of specs would have nothing to do with their selection.

Moe

Infocus protects dealers, are you kidding? We are a dealer and we can sell the projectors for whatever we like. We can't advertise our price if it is below the minimum advertised price that Infocus allows but we can sell it for whatever. Just call AVS or one of the other sponsors and ask for the price on an IN76. I bet it isn't MSRP. The truth of the matter is that PJs are practically a commodity item now. Except, for some higher end brands we don't make much on PJs or we have to discount them to be competitive.

So when we as a company decide which PJs to carry the margin is really not even discussed. The reasons we decide to carry a given PJ is as Kras stated.

We need to be able to control it first, and if it doesn't have discrete codes or RS-232 it is about useless. We don't like phone calls every time something goes wrong and if it has problems with control it will only reflect badly on us as a company.

Next it needs to look good or be easily calibrated. Since we include calibration with every installation having something that is pretty good out of the box and easy to calibrate means a lot.

Reliability and service is another big factor. Since we provide loaner PJs we don't want PJs with lots of problems or the company's service is poor.

The first two most enthusiasts don't care about because a half dozen or more remotes on a table is no problem for them and spending many hours teaking a machine for better performance is fun for them.

The market has changed in the past decade or so. What has happened is dealers no longer make as much on equipment but now account for every minute. Years ago a dealer might have put in a little extra time that wasn't billed if he knew he had a good sale with a customer. Now, every minute is computed into a job.

Sorry for the rant! Just wanted to point out that dealers use different criteria then enthusiasts when selecting a product and typically the lower priced pieces don't meet the dealers' criteria. You get what you pay for, still holds true.

Bob

Sorry for the apparent harsh tone guys. Not intended. I'm simply attempting to vent my frustration over the realization that this projector really has a target audience and that audience doesnt seem to include me, which bothers me since it seems like it would be a good fit in my theater. As an enthusiast and tweaker I don't much care if a projector comes precalibrated since I can get it there myself and enjoy doing so. The price premium that a custom installer is willing to pay in order to get good precalibration and quickness of install (in order to maximize profits) is just meaningless to a buyer like me who can maximize performance myself, there's just no value there for me. If targeting the custom install biz is what Infocus is all about that's fine, although it doesn't seem to be a plan that is working out all that well for them. It boggles the mind though how they seem to completely ignore the commodity pj market as you call it. Why not release models for this market that have good inherent performance but have not been extensively calibrated at the factory? They could be selling units by the bucket to internet hoppers who could care less how well calibrated their unit is otb or how honest a lumen spec it comes with. Why does Infocus have to price out a buyer like me just to appease the custom install market? Can't they have both? Anyway no offense was meant. Just blowing off steam that I can't buy this pj for less than it's current asking price.

Moe

AVS and many others will sell it below the MAP. I picked mine up locally for well under the MAP. It does make it a bit of a pain to have to call and shop around but it is worth it. And precalibration not worth it? I've had several sets that I have had to tinker with and I have to say I loved being able to power on the IN76 and not have to do much of anything except enjoy a beautiful image. Infocus pricing can be competitive you simply must find a dealer willing to work with you.

Zipplemayer, try shopping around and I'm sure you'll find pricing competitive with your other choices. I don't think the fact that it's well calibrated adds much to the consumer cost, it's just good business. A hassle free set up equals less returns, calls, etc. Good luck.

And you're trying to tell us that these very people who need help with such tasks and as you say"want to watch movies without any hassle" are the very same people who need and appreciate a projector that is precalibrated to D65 and publishes only calibrated lumens? Let's stop playing games, the reason that custom installers use a product like the Infocus IN76 is not because of truthfullness in disclosure of specs, it is because Infocus protects them and offers them sufficient markup on the product to make it worth their while. If they didn't, installers would move on to something else and honesty of specs would have nothing to do with their selection.

Moe

There are higher priced higher markup projectors they can sell than Infocus - and many of them indeed choose to benefit their wallet more than their customers. Infocus is not a boutique projector - it is a value priced alternative. They sell it because it is cheaper yet it has a picture that is 90% of a Runco or Marantz. Even though they can find something for $1-$2K less - it represents a value to their customer as they got the whole installed HT for the price of entry with the other PJ.

To do as you ask would require reengineering the projector to not have all those features. Indeed there are some companies that make dual models one a cheap commodity, the other with all the features. But often that causes the company to become defocused and the installers find that their installer specific model "just for them" starts missing features - and they move onto another brand. And the reality is - there will always be somebody that can do it cheaper. Remember NEC - king of the budget forum for a while - they got displaced in the HT market because they tried to "make it cheaper". Instead they focus on high end fixed install commercial projectors now.

The Infocus is precalibrated (and the IN78EX is ISFccc) because installers demanded it. This is an expense amortized across the product line - trained techs, NIST lab and portable spectroradiometers, testpattern development, trips to china. I know the guy with that job - and he is very well paid. Infocus meets privately with all of their dealers at least annually at trade shows - as well as whenever product trainings are held. They incorporate dealer feedback into their products. Why do you think a lens filter was added to SP7210 - it was because installers demanded it (and they got upset when that was dropped on the new case - and believe me the reps have heard this)

Installers do not want to have to charge full ISF price and spend 4-8 hours after the install is complete tuning a projector. Rather they want something that only takes an hour of tuning and can be included easily with the install. They also depend on referrals as their marketing and advertising - and a calibrated picture that blows away the local cineplex is how that happens. The customer does not rave on about D65 and color temp and gamma - they just say WOW! It is the installer that needs to be educated about what makes a good install - not the customer. That is what they are paying for - just like I pay the plumber to do what I do not want to learn - like installing a new toilet - crap technology is something I do not need to fill my mind with.

If you want one you pay a higher price for all those features - even if you make a deal below MAP - the same seller can make you a deal on something else cheaper even below MAP. So you are indeed paying for all that video engineering - and with the new case all those mechanical engineers. Some companies you wonder if those types of engineers even exist - or do they just let the marketers do that work?

Kras good post and you are correct we don't want to spend hours doing a calibration as part of an install on a $1000 projector which is sold so near cost that the margin doesn't allow me to afford a decent dinner with the wife.

Moe,

Anyway, I noticed you are in Ma. We are in the western mass and if you would like PM me and I'll send you my info and we can talk.

Bob

I heard INFOCUS will stop providing projectors to major retail distributors and will only concentrate on their business projectors and custom home theater stuff.

Any truth to that statement? If so, does that mean that they will be disontinuing producing and supporting their current line of playbig projectors?

Thanks,
Vic.

Again - read what is written. PlayBig is designed for custom installers it is not going away - you just will not find it at click2buy places - who don't know how to sell something that cost more for features they don't know what they are for.

Thanks krasmuzik,
That's a real relief, I am planning on purchasing an IN76 in Dec or Jan. I would hate it if they stopped supporting it.

Hopefully Crutchfield won't drop it since I need to burn a gift card from them!

Thanks,
Vic.

Hey, just scored a great deal on an IN72 and it came with a 76" screen. I will most likely not use the screen but it was cheaper with it. I am looking to get the D1 dvd player and I have a LG High Def box with a DVI out so will I need a DVI switch? If so what is recommended? Right now I am running an X1 and I love the faroudja, how will the IN72 compare on standard def tv? Thanks

What is going on with Infocus prices ?

THE IN72 Can now be had for $499 after rebate ..with free shipping .

What a deal .



Murph

dnkrm, welcome to the forum. FYI, the folks here at AVS have a rule that forbids price quotes from competitors. Of cousre it's OK to mention a price from the manufacturer.

wow, that's a sweet deal. almost makes me want to buy another one. heck, it's only ~$100 more than a spare lamp. and i could use the lamp on my in76 too. hmmmm.... :D i wish it wasn't a mail-in-rebate. those stink.

Murphy that is incorrect the MSRP-rebate is $599.

You have those making cheap 720P to thank for getting a better DVD image for even cheaper.

Murphy that is incorrect the MSRP-rebate is $599.

You have those making cheap 720P to thank for getting a better DVD image for even cheaper.

Kras

I just went to Tigerdirect to verify the price .


And it says what it says.


And you get a screen.


Just unbelievable.

I took a $150 hit in just 3 weeks from what i paid.




But i would do it again .

cheers


Murph

Hey, sorry about that. I saw the prices listed earlier in the post and thought it was alright! thanks for clarifying, any suggestions on screeen type? I am headed to Menards to find the materials for a DIY screen, either laminate or poly wall or something like that, what should I look for with this model? thanks

Kras

I just went to Tigerdirect to verify the price .
Tigerdirect is not Infocus. ;)

Murphy that is incorrect the MSRP-rebate is $599.

You have those making cheap 720P to thank for getting a better DVD image for even cheaper.

so Kras,

does this mean i should return the HD70 for the IN72? :(

so Kras,

does this mean i should return the HD70 for the IN72? :(

I wouldn't. We have both and in areas of image quality the IN72 will eat the HD70 for lunch. However, it depends on your screen size. On a <84" the In72 is a no brainer but for me the SDE on a 92" with the IN72 is very noticeable and then I'd choose the HD70. Do keep in mind I have the calibration equipment to tweak it properly.

If someone is not a tweaker I'd never recommend the HD70 but for the enthusiast on a budget it is tough to beat. I would take an IN74 over the HD70 as the SDE isn't noticeable to me on <110" and given street pricing is within a 100-300 dollars it would be worth the extra $$$ IMHO. I wouldn't make resolution my top criteria and the difference is barely noticeable between these two given the softer look of the HD70 in comparison. BTW, I'm not saying the HD70 is soft but in comparison to other PJs with better optics it is.

Bob

I love my IN72 IT may be the Brighter picture it throws but I seem to notice more SDE with the IN72 OVER THE 4805 ( not much as I sit 18 feet away and I'm using a 100inch screen ) and only when I am looking for it .But for the price these babys are going for I say buy.the in72 IT truly is a great picture ( best bang for the buck from what I have witnessed )

enjoy it for a year and get ready for the affordable 1080's.

cheers.

murph

thanks Bob & Murph,

i've seen many a projector in my day (ex-AVS dealer) & i know a good image when i see one. i haven't fired up the HD70 yet since the new screen (92"HiDef grey@ 10/11ft.) came in last night. just wanted to know before my complete home remodel is done eta=Christmas. i read so many members bad mouth the HD70, it's enough to ponder the purchase. Optoma vs. Infocus almost as bad HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray :confused:

Guys, just ordered the IN72 through AVS. It was actually cheaper from InFocus because of their free shipping offer, but I figure AVS deserves some support, after being such great hosts here. Now the "fun" starts. I have a Chief mount for my 4805 and hopefully I can keep it by having new holes drilled to match the IN72.

Assuming I have to re-center the 72 since it's lens is in a different position, do I need to lower or raise the IN72?

Hey Krazmuzik,
just got off the phone with Jason & picked-up his last two 72s' for the amount you mentioned in post #3397 Before rebate! So I'll take 4 clams off that! Since these lamps are currently going for the same it seems like a simple choice.
Me so happy! Oh yea, & I ordered the Bravo also. I hope this will keep me happy until price & content of the 1080p calls

Guys, just ordered the IN72 through AVS. It was actually cheaper from InFocus because of their free shipping offer, but I figure AVS deserves some support, after being such great hosts here. Now the "fun" starts. I have a Chief mount for my 4805 and hopefully I can keep it by having new holes drilled to match the IN72.

Assuming I have to re-center the 72 since it's lens is in a different position, do I need to lower or raise the IN72?

I replace my 4805 with an IN76 and I am using a Premier Mount. Premier Mount still don’t have the mounting plate required for the IN7x and I had to build an interface plate using a sheet of aluminum. It is quite easy to do.

Guys, just ordered the IN72 through AVS. It was actually cheaper from InFocus because of their free shipping offer, but I figure AVS deserves some support, after being such great hosts here. Now the "fun" starts. I have a Chief mount for my 4805 and hopefully I can keep it by having new holes drilled to match the IN72.

Assuming I have to re-center the 72 since it's lens is in a different position, do I need to lower or raise the IN72?

you'll probably find that you won't have to raise or lower the IN72. if memory serves me correctly (it usually doesn't) i think the offsets on the 4805 and in72 are similar. glad to hear you finally pulled the trigger. you'll be very happy. i love my in72 and in76 and can't say enough good things about them. i strayed twice from infocus and still have a bad taste in my mouth. can someone pm me and let me know what i should be paying for another IN72?

Optoma vs. Infocus almost as bad HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray :confused:

you're giving optoma too much credit. there's a bigger delta than the HD format war. :D

Thanks Tolstoi, I didn't think of an interface. That makes perfect sense. This way I can screw the interface to the mount and then screw the pj to that. By the way, I think I have the Premier mount as well. I'd forgotten the brand name and have been accidently saying "Chief". I was about to call Page Computers, where I purchased the mount from and ask if there was an In72/76 mount adapter, oh well...

Did you have to lower or raise the height of the 76 when you switched over? (assuming you didn't move your screen)

I wonder if an 1/4 or 1/2" acrylic sheet would work?

Thanks Billymac, I missed your post when I responded a minute ago. I'll keep my fingers crossed until I see how the IN72 fits. I'm jealous about the IN76. I'd have loved to go for the higher res, but the deal on the 72 is just too tempting.

* billymac, call Jason at AVS, if you're thinking of another 72, can't say why, but do it.
A/V Science, Inc.
877-823-4452: Toll Free
315-538-9806: Direct

you're giving optoma too much credit. there's a bigger delta than the HD format war. :D


really?

i didn't know Optoma was looked down upon that much to not make the analogy :o

Guys keep the sales prices and dealers out of this thread. Mods can be pretty nasty about that.

Martin

If you have the Premier Mount - just call them and ask to buy the Universal legs for your mount.

really?

i didn't know Optoma was looked down upon that much to not make the analogy :o

well, take my opinion with a grain of salt. i'll never buy one of their products again. that's not to say they don't make some good stuff, but imo, infocus is superior in every way. just look at the HD70 tweak thread. there's a reason it's so busy. even if the IN72 and the HD70 were the same price, i'd choose the in72 all day long.

Martin

If you have the Premier Mount - just call them and ask to buy the Universal legs for your mount.

yeah Martin, call them direct. They'll sell it to you. Just tell them you need the octopus/spider arm thingy majig. The bottom half of their universal. it's not the prettiest mount out there, but you'll never have to buy another. (with exception to the screws).

and make sure you get one of their special allen wrenches as their fasteners for securing the arms have a security style allen screw and the wrench has a cut-out that fits over them. in other words, a regular allen wrench won't work.

how much farther down will that put his lens kras, probably a ~3in or so i'm guessing. you should easily have enough play by tilting without keystone correction. both of my inxx tilt up slightly and i hide the ever-so-slight geometry issue by zooming out until it's buried in the black border.

Legs are two tier so you can regain some if the single tier reaches the holes. The custom plates are indeed lower profile - but hacking up DIY with each projector upgrade or rebuying a custom plate just is not worth it. Add in the install flexibility the legs give you for side to side and back and forth it is a no brainer. If they include the install kit it has various screws and the security wrench

yeah Martin, call them direct. They'll sell it to you. Just tell them you need the octopus/spider arm thingy majig. The bottom half of their universal. it's not the prettiest mount out there, but you'll never have to buy another. (with exception to the screws).

and make sure you get one of their special allen wrenches as their fasteners for securing the arms have a security style allen screw and the wrench has a cut-out that fits over them. in other words, a regular allen wrench won't work.

Hi billymac - just curious, I assume Premier sold you the legs at MSRP? What is the MSRP for just the legs? The reason I ask is that I had a Premier mount for the 4805 and wound up buying a whole new Premier Universal mount instead of trying to just get the legs. I'm wondering how much $$$ I wasted doing that. I did sell the old mount (separate from my projector), so it wasn't a total loss however.

Nice catch mentioning the special Allen wrench for the Universal. That is a difference between the Universal and 4805 mount and causes needless headaches. It forced the buyer of my old 4805 mount to order the wrench from Premier (I kept the spider legs and gave him the ceiling plate from the new Universal and the projector plate from the old 4805 mount, so the hex bolts were mixed.)

Add in the install flexibility the legs give you for side to side and back and forth it is a no brainer.
Agree there Kras - the flexibility of the spider legs allowed me to position the IN76 offcenter from the mount and prevented me from having to move my Panamorph lens.

Funny that this topic just popped up. I have an IF4805 but pulled the trigger on the Mitsu HD1000U a couple days ago. Well, I have the Premier PBL-110 mount currently and wanted to see if there was a plate or adapter I could buy to mount the new projector. I emailed Premier this morning and I have to say I was very happy with the response time but not as enthusiastic with the response. I think I need to call them to ensure they understand my question.

FYI, I am strongly considering buying their Polaris universal (MAG-EXT) unit. The street price for this unit may be just a few bucks more than an adaptor piece, if Premier charges similarly for OEM part replacements as other manufacturers.

My note to them:

I currently have a Premier PBL-110 that I use for an Infocus
Screenplay 4805 Projector. However, I am replacing that projector with a
Mitsubishi HD1000U. I see that Mitsubishi sells a mount (it looks like a
Premier) for this projector, the PROJ-UCM.

I am wondering if there is an adaptor plate I could use for my PBL-110
to interface with the Mitsubishi projector. It looks like I may just need
to buy a part from Premier rather than a whole new mount.

Any information you can provide me would be of great help!

Their response back:

Thank you for contacting Premier Mounts. When I searched our web site
for your projector, I found that you will need the all new Polaris line
of mounts. Please see the link below.

http://www.premiermounts.com/productPartBrowse.asp?ProductID=5662

If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Wow, I go to work for a few hours and there's a wealth of information when I come back, thanks guys, much appreciated. I believe the model number for my Premier mount is PBL-110 also. I'll have to wade through a closet full of junk to find the papers for it to be certain. I'll look into the spider leg adapter on Friday, I gotta go shopping for Thanksgiving day groceries now. I'll probably be back in a few hours but if I don't get the chance later, Happy Thanksgiving to all.

i think this is the one i bought but i can't be sure.

http://www.premiermounts.com/product.asp?partID=1126

they used to oem the mounts for the original x1. i bought this one above when i bought my panny 700 (booo...) and then realized that my x1 top plate and coupler downstairs were identical. i called them up and bought the bottom half when i changed out and now have two uni mounts with an extension i'll hopefully never have to use again. ;)

/edit

mine's not white btw. :)

it's that same bronzy color as the original x1 mount.

How much was that bottom half? Do you happen to have a part number or order number for that piece alone? Thanks in advance!

Hello all
I am new to the forum and I can not seem to find a good source of info on one question.
I plan to purchase the IN72 from the InFocus store with the screen. My question is this: If I project the full 92" diagonal that the full screen provides will I be able to see the pixels from my seating distance. My room is 16' long and seating positions are between 14.5 and 10.5 feet. Recommended sizes SMPTE and THX are larger, but they say nothing about how resolution affects this. The projector will be used mainly for viewing DirecTV standard definintion using the component input.
Advise on the image size vs viewing distance where the pixels become visible would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Chris

If I project the full 92" diagonal that the full screen provides will I be able to see the pixels from my seating distance. My room is 16' long and seating positions are between 14.5 and 10.5 feet.The minimum recommended viewing distance for 480p is 2x the screen width; in your case, that would be 13.3' back.

10.3' would be the recommended THX viewing distance (36 degree viewing angle) and 14.5' is the maximum THX viewing distance (26 degree viewing angle) while the maximum recommended SMPTE viewing distance (30 degree viewing angle) is 12.5'.

BTW, the human eye can resolve 1 second of arc. At 14.5 ft (26 degrees) the pixels are 1.8 minutes wide.

Wow, I go to work for a few hours and there's a wealth of information when I come back, thanks guys, much appreciated. I believe the model number for my Premier mount is PBL-110 also. I'll have to wade through a closet full of junk to find the papers for it to be certain. I'll look into the spider leg adapter on Friday, I gotta go shopping for Thanksgiving day groceries now. I'll probably be back in a few hours but if I don't get the chance later, Happy Thanksgiving to all.

I also got the Premier Mount PBL 110 also. I will try to post a picture of what I did with the IN76 interface plate I build.

/edit

mine's not white btw. :)

it's that same bronzy color as the original x1 mount.

Tell PremierMounts you need a replacement spyder legs part for the PBL-UMS for (SinterFlex color - not bronze) - or UMW for white or UMP for silver, or PBC for pipe rather than bar. If you just tell them what PJ you have they look it up in the database and hit their new universal Polaris magnetic mount. They usually don't list replacement parts in the catalog - but they can send them out.

They were the original OEM for Infocus back before Infocus made up their own universal plate with holes mount. It was the same custom plate mount they later sold after Infocus dumped them - and the spyder legs are compatible.

I sent a few emails to Premier Mounts to get a status on the availability of a mount for the IN76. They never return any response. I am really not impressed by the customer services.

Thanks Tolstoi, I'm looking forward to seeing your IN76 mount. If it's difficult to post here, let me know and I'll PM you my email adress. I got my Premier mount through Page Computers and they weren't bad when I was asking questions. I might try them again at some point. I have a little while before my 72 arrives, so I'll start working on the mount this weekend (hopefully ;)

Can't dedide if I should keep my 4805 as a backup or not, probably will if money's good this month. I have a buddy who offered me $400 for it, but I'm going to turn him on to the InFocus special deal instead. Wouldn't be much of a friend if I didn't.

How do you know they got your email? Always call when you have a question.

You do not even have to call or email - just search your projector in their website and click to buy - the database has the Play Big correctly assigned to universal mounts now.

http://www.premiermounts.com/productPartBrowse.asp?ProductID=5595

I have not tried the new Polaris mount yet - it is a 10# limit mount.

The older mount goes to 25# - even though the PlayBig is not listed in its supported database - all the older ScreenPlay get assigned the GyroLock universal mounts and it works on PlayBig. You may want to use this one if you think heavier upgrades down the line.

http://www.premiermounts.com/product.asp?partID=1104

Cavu, thanks for the reply.
I am a bit confused now since it would seem that at the recommended viewing distance I will easily be able to see the pixel size. It would seem that the ability of the eye to resolve is not the only thing at issue here (or I am totally lost).
I am a bit torn on whether I should get the projector with the screen 92 diagonal and go with it even though it is smaller than the minimum recommended or build a fixed screen that is 100" diagonal or better. I would rather have a smaller screen than be able to see the pixelation.
Thanks for your help
Chris

it would seem that at the recommended viewing distance I will easily be able to see the pixel size.If you cannot see the pixels, you cannot see the image detail! ;)

The 2x rule essentially eliminates "screen door effect" (SDE) for the average person; this is where, in balance, the black lines between the pixels do not overwhelm.

92" is the "sweet spot" for these projectors and is about perfect for your seating and projection distances. Going to 100" will likely begin to cause problems with SDE.

Great, I guess the real question is how wide the line between the pixels is and when I can begin to resolve that with my eye. I am guessing that this is why no mention is made of a difference between different resolution projectors (likely that the line between the pixels is the same size.
Thanks again
Chris

I am guessing that this is why no mention is made of a difference between different resolution projectorsActually, relative to SDE, the multiplier for 720p is 1.33 and 0.95 for 1080p.

Regarding the mount issue, I just bought a Premier PBL-UMS from buy.com. Using Google checkout, it is probably not much more expensive than buying necessary parts from Premier (just a guess on my part).

Cavu, could you point me to a resource for this type of info on the net?
Thanks
Chris

Regarding the mount issue, I just bought a Premier PBL-UMS from buy.com. Using Google checkout, it is probably not much more expensive than buying necessary parts from Premier (just a guess on my part).
why don't you give it a shot and make your own Mount .

It is very simple and looks good as well .

here is all the info needed with shopping list at homegspot

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=232749&page=1&pp=30&highlight=monkey+mount


cheers.

Murph :)

I just used my old mount from the X1, only had to redrill a couple of holes on the mounting plate. That easy!

Jessica :)

CineFreak, I haven't received my IN72 yet and will take a closer look at my mount once it arrives and I take the 4805 down. Before I try the worarounds that the guys suggested, I'd like to try drilling holes to match the new pj if it isn't any more difficult than buying a metal plate or acrylic sheet and drilling holes as an interface between them. The Premier mount is a heavy duty hardened steel kind of thing, so I'm wondering if anyone can offer some advice regarding drilling through it.

CineFreak, I haven't received my IN72 yet and will take a closer look at my mount once it arrives and I take the 4805 down. Before I try the worarounds that the guys suggested, I'd like to try drilling holes to match the new pj if it isn't any more difficult than buying a metal plate or acrylic sheet and drilling holes as an interface between them. The Premier mount is a heavy duty hardened steel kind of thing, so I'm wondering if anyone can offer some advice regarding drilling through it.

brink the plate with you to home depot and have them show you a good bit. you'll probably spend about $10-15 for a bit. hopefully you have a good drill. you could also bring some cash with you to a metal shop and ask them to hook you up with their press. :) obviously, the latter, you'd have to have the wholes already marked.

Thanks, billymac, I'm in NYC and would like to know where a metal shop that could do the drilling is located. I've had difficulty drilling through metal before and even a hardened drill bit didn't quite do it. Once, it took me 3 expensive drill bits to go through a metal plate in the corner of my walls.

Did InFocus include a template with holes for aligning it on a ceiling?

Martin

The mount template is in the install spreadsheet - but it is for their new universal mount - not the old Premier they used to OEM. At least you can use it for hole specs. The number of $69 comes to mind for the replacement legs - so sounds like an awful lot of work to me.

I had a summer job once and they stuck me on the drill press after OSHA busted us for inhaling toxic paint fumes. Talk about a monotonous job. Put in the part - push down on the drill - throw it in the bin - grab the next part. I guess college kids are cheaper than robots...I was relieved when I got off that job and spent the rest of the summer in a OSHA approved painters body enviromental suit....

Hey, i'm new here, I just ordered a IN72 from tigerdirect for $500 with a 76" screen. My question is, should I be worried about the lumines rating? It is rated at only 900. Currently my dad has been bringing home a Proxima-UltraLight X350 from work for me to use. It is rated at 1100. I will be using the projector for xbox 360. Will I be dissapointed or do you think it will be better than the one I am currently using?

MK4, welcome to the forum. FYI, our hosts here at AVS are dealers themselves, so there's a rule against exact price quotes from competitiors. I don't know specifically about the Proxima, but many business projectors are designed for outputting lots of light, sacrificing white detail, deep blacks and color accuracy. InFocus' designs are one of the brightest made for home theater use that still maintains very good black levels and color accuracy without blowing out white detail, so don't worry, it'll be plenty bright.

IN72...My question is, should I be worried about the lumines (sic) rating? It is rated at only 900. Currently my dad has been bringing home a Proxima-UltraLight X350 from work for me to use...Will I be dissapointed or do you think it will be better than the one I am currently using?

MK4,

The IN72 will obliterate that Proxima unit. The 350 has an abyssmal 500:1 contrast ratio, and the real-world lumens are likely 30-50% less than the InFocus unit. (Not to mention that the Proxima is a 4:3 PJ)

Once you see the IN72, you'll tell dad to never bring the 350 anywhere near you. :D

Spyder, you sure about that? ;)

I'm with Spyder.

The IN72 has made me very happy.




i'ts the Best bang for your buck as of right now for a low budget HT Pj.

:D

I recieved the IN72 last week. First thing I did was hook up my Kenwood Sovereign DV-5700 W/Faroudja. It looked great! Then I tried my old Sony DVP-S530D, Component w/interlaced signal. It looked even better! Next, I ran the Sony interlaced signal through my Iscan Ultra w/DVI connection. Incredible!! With each steps I used Avia's basic calibrations. With the Iscan Ultra I had to dramatically boost saturation and pump up brightness and contrast a bit. I have not seen the picture with a Bravo D1. But, I cannot imagine it being better than the Ultra. Incredible!!

The IN72 will obliterate that Proxima unit.Why don't you tell us what you really think!? :rolleyes:

With the Iscan Ultra I had to dramatically boost saturation and pump up brightness and contrast a bit.When using the DVI connection on the IN72, change the Color Settings from "Auto" to "RGB-VIDEO".

BTW, the D1 will be better yet. :D

Since Infocus owns Proxima - if they thought it was better they would slap the PlayBig label on it and sell it instead. Shoot it out with your dad and you will finally one up him!

So can anyone describe how much brighter the IN72 is over the SP4805? I'm considering upgrading, as my image is a tad too dim for me.

In case there are any 4805 fence sitters out there wondering what HD-DVD looks like on a 4805 here are some Kong HD screenies I made last night from my 360 HD-DVD add-on drive:

To begin with, I'll post a before/after pic to demonstrate the degree to which screenshots taken with a digital camera can affect what we see.

The first shot is undoctored. The second shot was auto-leveled in Photoshop. It's not exactly the same as what I'm seeing, but it does demonstrate how much digital photos can crush shadow detail:

http://home.comcast.net/~joeseph/JB1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~joeseph/JB2.jpg

What I'm seeing on my screen (~98" plain BOC), looks more detailed, and the shadow detail is much, much better in most shots. Basically, if you auto-level in Photoshop, as in the prior example, you get a better rendition of what I'm seeing.
BTW, I don't see anyone of the digital noise that's visible in some of these pics. What I see is smooth as butter. :)

http://home.comcast.net/~joeseph/IMG_2005.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~joeseph/IMG_2002.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~joeseph/IMG_2010.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~joeseph/IMG_2024.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~joeseph/IMG_2028.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~joeseph/IMG_2030.jpg

All in all I'm very pleased with this unit, and would recommend it. Obviously, you won't get the same detail that you would with a 720p PJ, but their is a significant improvement in PQ. I know that most people would advise getting a Bravo, or doing HTPC, but DVD content is on the back burner for me going forward.

When using the DVI connection on the IN72, change the Color Settings from "Auto" to "RGB-VIDEO".

BTW, the D1 will be better yet. :D

Indeed! The IN72 and D1 is a winning combo. Blacks are outstanding! Image is brighter than SP4805 and colors look great!

Thanks Cavu, for sharing your expertise.
sgibson

I'm with Spyder.

The IN72 has made me very happy.




i'ts the Best bang for your buck as of right now for a low budget HT Pj.

:D

Right you are Murph!

Found the IN72 locally on 2-day sale for $429 (After Rebate) Just couldn't pass it up!First thing that impressed me was the outstanding black level. Definately brighter than SP4805. Makes an awesome combo with the lowly lil' Bravo D1.

regards,
sgibson

Right you are Murph!

Found the IN72 locally on 2-day sale for $429 (After Rebate) Just couldn't pass it up!First thing that impressed me was the outstanding black level. Definately brighter than SP4805. Makes an awesome combo with the lowly lil' Bravo D1.

regards,
sgibson

Well, thanks to spyder696969 for pointing out that the store I bought my IN72 at does not qualify for the $200 Rebate, as I should have noted on the very bottom line of the official Infocus rebate form.

My Bad and apologies to all,
sgibson
(Now back to my lurking...sigh)

Hey, you still got a great deal.

Hey, you still got a great deal.

Thanks, Cubfan. I needed that.
(The IN72 goes for $998 at WallyWorld....so in retrospec, guess it's not that bad a deal.)

regards,
sgibson

Just got the 72 late this afternoon and won't have time to plug it in until tomorrow. Kras, you mentioned the "install spreadsheet" a few posts back regarding a template for drilling mounting holes, was that at the InFocus website? Mine came with a manual in only foreign languages and a skimpy few sheets in English with general info, nothing like a template or a real manual.

Also, I have the DVI/M1 combo from my 4805 and wonder if the DVI cable plugs right in or do I still need the M1 for the IN72's DVI in? I'll use HDMI when I get a DVD player that has it. (OPPO 981, perhaps?)

A few of IN72/4805 comparison pics for sharpness
Bravo D1 @ 48hz
Calibrated with a THX optimizer/focused
Used the best pic out of 3 for each frame/pic


Size difference
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/tgferg67/IN72-4805size.jpg


4805(rgb to B. Williams dvi settings)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/tgferg67/4805-1-rz.jpg


IN72 - a litle more detail noticed mostly in eyebrows
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/tgferg67/in72-1-rz.jpg


4805(rgb to dvi & proportioned to be in line with with project central review rgb settings)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/tgferg67/4805-2-rz.jpg


IN72 - a little more detail again noticed in eyelashes and eybrows
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/tgferg67/in72-2-rz.jpg

A couple of "J6-pack" observations of the IN72 compared to the 4805.

Does anyone else have the opinion that the 4805 is every so slightly sharper that the IN72?
I have my brother's In72 until he can set it up in his house and it seems softer on the standard sharpness settings using a Bravo D1 @ 48 hz for the source on both.
The difference in absolute black seems much greater than I expected, probably in part due to the IN72 really controlling the light spill from the front of the case.

I had to set up my old 4805 with the new moded D1 combo ( enter the special numbers and settings) and go over all the basic info he needed before my buddy bought my older 4805 off of me it and took it home .

we wondered what could be so diffrent with both units ( lets find out )

SO we set up my new IN72 with another exact moded D1 source a exact extra screen plus same cables in the same room for a small side by side shoot out .( I was curious as hell to see the difference )

Side by side there was a difference as the IN72 was Much brighter from the 4805 (maybe it had soothing to do with the new bulb in the IN72 compared to the 500 hours on the older 4805 )
Colors were set accordingly (28.5 + 58 ) from the bravo 4805 thread along with all other specifics like turn off sharpness ect ect.

After doing all setting accordingly on both units ( from information shared in the Bravo 4805 thread ).

The IN72 seem to have more of a (punch ) and the blacks were just amazing compared to the 4805 .
The fan noise of the 4805 was slightly higher then IN72 and then we hit the high mode on the 4805 and waited for the unit to take off like a helicopter in flight LOL allot louder . there was a bit more light but still less then the new in72 in regular mode .
Standing around five feet from both screens we did notice the SDE was more present with the IN72 but concluded the extra light and sharper image played a big part on this conclusion .

fine tune Focusing the 4805 compared to the IN72 was a bit more difficult as well and I could swear the 4805 lens shifted pretty bad
(I felt bad thinking maybe my buddy was buying a defective unit off of me )

The IN72s focus adjustments takes a bit more strength as you actually need to push your finger and hold it to focus as there is nothing to pinch and turn like the 4805.( I like the pinch and turn better I fell I have better control ) but no evidence of any lens shift on the IN72.

Also we were able to go back and tinker with the sharpness controls in the IN72 after everything was set up unlike the 4805 . (using digital cable connection )

If you get as chance Try sharpness up a notch I think it looks GREAT, but don't bother with the sharpest setting as it realy ads something I cant really explain (fake image ) .

I don't wish to start a war this review is based on me and my buddy's viewing experience during our little shot out .


I do like the fact the Newer modle has two digital inputs but i wouldnt say to upgrade only becuse of this fact.

Murph :)

Thanks for the pics tgferg67.

What did you think of the great manual in the IN72'S box .

A cd What a crock of poop .

if you dont have a pc your screwed .

I dunno. The 4805 seemed sharper when watching a movie but the camera still shots show otherwise. I think my eyes are playing tricks on me.

I dunno. The 4805 seemed sharper when watching a movie but the camera still shots show otherwise. I think my eyes are playing tricks on me.


Maybe not You could very well be ajusted to the image of your old friend.
As long as your happy :)
It seems we all bought or 4805 at the same time and now they are starting to show bulb failure and Image tube issues other then that the 4805 has been a GREAT bang for buck Home theater.

By the way your IN72'S remote works on both units same with the 4805's remote.

( i'm sure you found this out already )

murph

Murphy, I "side stepped" from the 4805 to IN72 because I figured the 4805 would probably need a bulb at some point next year (2 1/3 years so far, don't know exact hours thanks to InFocus resetting it). It doesn't make sense to wait for the bulb to go and then get an expensive new one for the 4805 when the IN72 is at blow out prices. If I can afford to, I'll keep the 4805 as a backup.

Great shots, thanks. I noticed the colors on the 72 aren't quite as orange as on the 4805. Look at Kirsten Dunst's left shoulder. Using DVI, do we still have to adjust for DVD color using Gains/Offsets as we did with the 4805?

Great shots, thanks.

yes thanks tgferg67



The IN72 settings are great at default except try the Color Settings from "Auto" to "RGB-VIDEO"

everyone is different.

I side stepped as well .
I like the 6 month warrantee on the bulb and the one year on the unit helps me sleep at nigh .

And lets face it the units are getting old ( mine anyway ) even though i only had 500 hours on the unit ) i didn't want to take a chance with it .

You know Murphys law as "Murph"
come for a visit .

Thats were my name came from ( murphyAgain) .

Thats what i hell every time something out of the ordinary happens

Dam MURPHYAGAIN @%$#

One of the many nicknames my wife uses for me is " Johnny Two-Times". After I screw up something the first time, I get it right the second. i think "Murph" must live next door to me ;)

Guys, tgferg67, can anyone tell me exactly the difference between the center of the 4805's lens and the center of the IN72? It looks like 3/4" to 1" and if I can get it exactly I can simply adjust my center line for the In72 by shifting the center line of the mount I have for the 4805 an equivalent amount.

Also, I'd like to try getting a black 1/4" or 1/2" acrylic sheet cut to accomodate the Premier PBL-110 mount, allowing me to drill holes into the sheet and mount the IN72 to the acrylic and the acrylic to the premier mount. One question, if I mount the 72 to the acrylic sheet I'd have to use a bolt to hold it, unless holes can be drilled with threading for the screws, can that be done?

Just got the 72 late this afternoon and won't have time to plug it in until tomorrow. Kras, you mentioned the "install spreadsheet" a few posts back regarding a template for drilling mounting holes, was that at the InFocus website? Mine came with a manual in only foreign languages and a skimpy few sheets in English with general info, nothing like a template or a real manual.

Also, I have the DVI/M1 combo from my 4805 and wonder if the DVI cable plugs right in or do I still need the M1 for the IN72's DVI in? I'll use HDMI when I get a DVD player that has it. (OPPO 981, perhaps?)

http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/downloads/in72-74-76-78%20calculator%20-%20english.xls

Also the M1DA is still there - but is fully functional HDMI with an adaptor just as the HDMI port is. In the meantime use your DVI adaptor.

You should see the IN72 is indeed a bit sharper - the PW scalar is sharper and the optics are sharper. Also the PW deinterlacer preserves more chroma detail for 480i than Faroudja did (but you will notice line jitter and diag jaggies more).

As far as color differences - that is just because you used someone elses settings. Never do that except for the Video DVI settings Bob Williams posted on the SP4805. Instead buy a test pattern DVD and calibrate color yourself. That is all I see here - is different calibrations.

Brightness/contrast differences - the IN72 is about 10% better - but that is new lamps - compare to an old lamp there is a huge difference - especially if you never cleaned the color wheel.

Did anyone see the IN78 goody posted here?

http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/resources.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&

Can you say - I want that!! Be sure to check out the new features of IN78 over IN76 - mostly ISF calibrator goodies that means ultimate perfection for someone like me who has the tuning gear! :D But they also throw in an HDMI adaptor and have digital image shift.

Did anyone see the IN78 goody posted here?

http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/resources.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&

Can you say - I want that!! Be sure to check out the new features of IN78 over IN76 - mostly ISF calibrator goodies that means ultimate perfection for someone like me who has the tuning gear! :D But they also throw in an HDMI adaptor and have digital image shift.

It's a DC3 too.

I ended up with an HC3000u though. Couldn't resist the local BigBox store.

Kras, I got to the Infocus page with the templates but they're not real size. Can you help me find a full size template for the IN72, so I avoid making errors if I make my own? Thanks.

Just hooked up my new InFocus IN76 projector (using componet cables) to my Sovereign Amp./Entre/5900 DVD player. There is a light leak on the left side of the IN76 silver len's frame between the len's frame and the black IN76 projector's case. Looks like the black case doesn't fit tightly enough around the round silver lens frame. Does anyone else have a light leak on their IN72, 74, 76, or 78? Any suggestions for closing off the light leak? I really like the projector and don't want to have to return it.

Also the Kenwood Sovereign DVD player's main menu shows several settings including LCD, CRT, Standard, etc. It does not list DLP. Any suggestions as to which one should be used for DLP??????

Thanks---

Hi Guys, the IN72 has an 12.45" screen offset, anyone know off hand what the 4805's offset is? Also, I'm still looking for a full size template for mounting the 72.

As for mounting it with my Premier PBL, I'm working on understanding the details, so help me here. When mounting the Premier plate that attaches/detaches to the interface plate, how do you make it secure, with bolts? It seems to me that bolts would get in the way once you screw in the projector screws.

When I bought my speakers they had a nice little template page included.
Surely it wouldn't have been too much for InFocus to include one as well, and also, what's with the CD-ROM included? Many A/V afficianados I know use Macs, and it would have been helpful to have a disc that's compatible, especially considering there's no real manual included.

Hi Guys, the IN72 has an 12.45" screen offset, anyone know off hand what the 4805's offset is?

Screen offset for the 4805 is 27.8% of the image height.

Mike

Cool! I just found the 4805's offset,(thanks to Ja Phule and the amazing 4805 FAQ page) and it's 12.51 ! It's almost exactly the same as the IN72, so I probably won't have to change the height of my mount unless the interface changes things too much.

Forgot who kindly posted the photos of the IN72 with the interface mount, (was it you, tgferg67?). I searched, but lost it. Can you post again, I'm having difficulty visualizing the interface without lowering the height of the pj much, (my set up doesn't have much height flexibility). Thanks.

Hi,

I have the IN72 currently hooked upto my 3-1/2yr old Toshiba (progressive scan) dvd player via 480P, component cables (35ft run). The picture looks great!

I am thinking of getting an upconverting player (Oppo 970). Is there a significant PQ change (improvement) if I use an upconverting player via HDMI? (vs the 480p over component)

Thanks.

Also the Kenwood Sovereign DVD player's main menu shows several settings including LCD, CRT, Standard, etc. It does not list DLP. Any suggestions as to which one should be used for DLP??????

Your best option is to leave the output flat, don't mess with any of these special modes which will just distort the signal being sent to your projector (allegedly boosting black levels etc.), and then calibrate the picture via the projector menus.

the Kenwood Sovereign DVD player's main menu shows several settings including LCD, CRT, Standard, etc. It does not list DLP.I understand that that setting only changes the placement of the OSD!

By flat I mean normal, no special modes, it will depend on your player, but it might well be "standard."

Hi,

I have the IN72 currently hooked upto my 3-1/2yr old Toshiba (progressive scan) dvd player via 480P, component cables (35ft run). The picture looks great!

I am thinking of getting an upconverting player (Oppo 970). Is there a significant PQ change (improvement) if I use an upconverting player via HDMI? (vs the 480p over component)

Thanks.

don't waste your money. snag a $35 Bravo D1 from newegg and a dvi-hdmi cable. or dvd-dvi and get an M1-DVI adapter if you want to use your hdmi port for something else. monoprice also makes a super cheap manual 2-port hdmi switch if you need it later. seriously, ask any 4805 or IN72 owners and they'll agree. D1 baby.

Hi Guys, the IN72 has an 12.45" screen offset, anyone know off hand what the 4805's offset is?The offset of the IN72 is not 12.45" ... it is 27.67% of the image height!!

The offset of the SP4805 is 27.8% of the image height!!

Your correct CAVU, I was referring to the distance from ceiling to projector with a 92" diagonal screen (45 X 80 ) using the percentages you posted. Those numbers were from the InFocus spreadsheet Kras posted. Unless I'm mistaken, what it means to me is that I don't have to change the length of my ceiling mount, just adjust a few turns. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that, thanks.

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum here and am looking for some advice regarding PS2 use with the Infocus IN72. I've recently ordered the IN72 and am trying to setup my theater accordingly before its arrival. I have a PS2 that I've been using for my DVD player on a regular 21" televison. My question is this: How will the following combinations differ from each other in terms of how big is the difference in picture quality to a newbie projector user:

-PS2 as DVD player hooked up to composite input of IN72 using standard PS2 cable that came with the unit.
-PS2 as DVD player hooked up to component inputs of IN72 using Sony's optional component PS2 cable.
-Purchase Bravo D1 as DVD player and DVI/HDMI cable to hook to IN72.

I'm really curious about the difference between the component PS2 and the Bravo D1. Also, does the IN72 need to be switched to 4:3 to play PS2, Wii, and Gamecube games? If I play a DVD on the PS2, can the IN72 be in 16:9? Thanks to all that can help me with these questions--although they probably seem pretty simple!

In addition, I only have a basic cable feed for TV...what is the best way to view this feed on the IN72? Will just the feed from the VCR (any particular VCR that's good?) be sufficient? Will the picture be grainy? In my room size, I will be able to project anywhere from a 57" to an 80" image onto the white screen Infocus is currently including with the IN72. Since the screen is 92", is projecting a smaller image onto it acceptable, or will it look weird? (or should I just shoot it onto a white/creme wall instead?)

Thanks so much, I appreciate any feedback and look forward to entering into the realm of projectors!

Has anybody taken apart their projector? I'm wondering in case I need to do the emergency fuse mod myself (I know Thinker has done this before). I tried to open mine up the other day when I had it down. I removed the screws on the side panels, but they did not want to come off easily. I didn't want to break anything so I gave up.

Sorry for the delay responding to your inquiry. I must have missed it with all the traffic this thread gets.

Thanks for your honesty Swithey. I can deal with products much better if I know in advance what the situation really is. I'm just as anal as you and would have been very disappointed after spending up to a grand on a lens to find out it wouldn't do everything I expected. I knew something was up with the IN76 when it was omitted on two list of projectors (that would do 2:35:1) that I had read. I appreciate YOUR integrity and honesty. I still feel the IN76 is the best way to go for the price.
What do you think?
Would you get it again? Most definitely. It is so wonderful to see a movie in the 2.35:1 format. It just seems so much more cinematic.


Can you tell me more about your HTPC TheaterTek?
Is it a dedicated HTPC or is it software I can add to my Dell Inspiron 9100 to make it a scaler?
What does it cost? I am running a Intel Core Duo 2 HTPC with (4) 500GB HDs in a RAID5 config and a 80 GB WD Raptor as my boot device. The PC has been flawless. Your Dell should do fine but make sure you have a lot of memory and a fast processor. I'm using SageTV as my PVR for TV and some movies. BUT -- TheaterTek is the main DVD player I use because it can stretch/squeeze the image to my exact specifications. Sage has some screen adjustments but I have not got them to work as well. I'm currently swapping emails back and forth with Sage Tech Support on that very issue. You can find out all about the $70 TheaterTek software HERE (http://www.theatertek.com/). If I can get Sage to stretch the screen the way I want, I may drop TheaterTek all together.


[A different anamorphic lens company has been recommended to me so if I go with it I may not have the same problems. But just the same I don't want any surprises if I can avoid them. I'm sure you are talking about the Prismasonic Lens (http://www.prismasonic.com/english/index.shtml). To reduce the barrel effect you get with these lenses, you want it to be as far away from your screen as possible. The Panamorph allowed me the put my projector on a shelf in the back of the room and at the furthest distance I could get. Also the fact that it was less expensive was a good thing as well :)


By the way, does anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive HD off air tuner and antenna to go with the IN76? I'm using the AVerMedia HD card (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/avermedia-avertvhd-mce-a180-hdtv-tuner-white-box/manufacturers_id/74). It was recommended over on the SageTV forum. The picture looks great and for $69 -- it was a great deal. Since you have a laptop, you would need to get the external version (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/avermedia-avertv-usb-mce-white-box-usb-tv-tuner-mtvusbmcw/manufacturers_id/74) for $100.

It sound like you are describing the difference between 2.35 anamorphic and 2.35 letterbox. A 2.35 anamorphic DVD is formatted in a 16 X 9 frame and a 2.35 letterbox is formatted in a 4 X 3 frame. I hope the following photos helps a bit. I don't know of any PJ's that will do a stretch for a 2.35 letterboxed DVD only anamorphic. Photos were taken with lens in place doing the horizontal stretch.

2.35 letterboxed with the PJ doing the stretch. still have black bars top and bottom.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/willygib/Old%20Theater/Picture002-1.jpg

This is the one that bugs the hell out of me. Luckily, TheaterTek fixes it every time :) Even my wife is bothered by the image.

don't waste your money. snag a $35 Bravo D1 from newegg and a dvi-hdmi cable. or dvd-dvi and get an M1-DVI adapter if you want to use your hdmi port for something else. monoprice also makes a super cheap manual 2-port hdmi switch if you need it later. seriously, ask any 4805 or IN72 owners and they'll agree. D1 baby.

Yeah - I saw the 4805/D1 thread. Might snag a D1 from New Egg (which Rocks btw). Still wondering if there is significant PQ change when going from 480P analog to a digital uplink (and either let the DVD do the scaling, or let the IN72 do the scaling, or try the 1:1 mapping in "native" mode). The Oppo was in my list due to SACD support.

[QUOTE=
I'm sure you are talking about the Prismasonic Lens (http://www.prismasonic.com/english/index.shtml). To reduce the barrel effect you get with these lenses, you want it to be as far away from your screen as possible. The Panamorph allowed me the put my projector on a shelf in the back of the room and at the furthest distance I could get. Also the fact that it was less expensive was a good thing as well :)
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the reply!!
You are correct about the lens recommendation. When you say "...barrel effect...with these lens" do you mean all anamorphic lens? My projector is about 18 1/2' from the screen. How far back is yours? Is 18-19' from the screen going to be a problem with the barrel effect? Do you know if the Prismasonic will be a problem at this distance or does it provide more flexibility? Just wondering why it was recommended to my over the Panamorph by someone highly respected on this web site.

Thanks--

Mobius, what software were you running to watch the DVDs? Looks nice but doesn't look like MCE.

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum here and am looking for some advice regarding PS2 use with the Infocus IN72. I've recently ordered the IN72 and am trying to setup my theater accordingly before its arrival. I have a PS2 that I've been using for my DVD player on a regular 21" televison. My question is this: How will the following combinations differ from each other in terms of how big is the difference in picture quality to a newbie projector user:

-PS2 as DVD player hooked up to composite input of IN72 using standard PS2 cable that came with the unit.
-PS2 as DVD player hooked up to component inputs of IN72 using Sony's optional component PS2 cable.
-Purchase Bravo D1 as DVD player and DVI/HDMI cable to hook to IN72.

I'm really curious about the difference between the component PS2 and the Bravo D1.

The D1 will obliterate your PS2 for DVDs. About as much contest as Godzilla vs. Bambi.

A) Also, does the IN72 need to be switched to 4:3 to play PS2, Wii, and Gamecube games? B) If I play a DVD on the PS2, can the IN72 be in 16:9? Thanks to all that can help me with these questions--although they probably seem pretty simple!

A) No. B) Yes.

In addition, I only have a basic cable feed for TV...what is the best way to view this feed on the IN72? Will just the feed from the VCR (any particular VCR that's good?) be sufficient? Will the picture be grainy? In my room size, I will be able to project anywhere from a 57" to an 80" image onto the white screen Infocus is currently including with the IN72. Since the screen is 92", is projecting a smaller image onto it acceptable, or will it look weird? (or should I just shoot it onto a white/creme wall instead?

Answers, in order of question asked:

With anything with an internal tuner (VCR, DVD Recorder, etc.) over the best output possible. Yes (JVC S-VHS VCRs are the best, but at that price you could get a nice DVD Recorder). Yes, all non-HD channels look poor, but there's nothing you can do about it...alot depends on your expectations. You can always visit the DIY Screen forum and build your own screen for about $30, then use the other later, if desired. Pretty much any screen is going to look better than a cream wall.

Thanks so much, I appreciate any feedback and look forward to entering into the realm of projectors!

Welcome to the PJ world! You'll never go back to a standard TV again. :)

Mobius, what software were you running to watch the DVDs? Looks nice but doesn't look like MCE.


I guess you're questioning me(?)

Sorry if I wasn't very clear, but those pics are from a Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on drive. Not saying it’s the best 4805 image possible, but it’s the best that I’ve seen. By comparison, DVD looks just OK. I need to hook up my HTPC with some FFDshow action to see how it looks. At least I could do a sequential comparison. Of course I'd be using the DVI/M1 adapter so the comparison would be more fair.

VGA output from my PC to the 4805 looks OK- not great.

I thought that Wii games are 16:9 in format. They're 480p, but should be pretty good resolution... like a DVD in quality, I would think. Anybody have one? My son wants one for Christmas, so we'll likely be getting one to use with the IN72.

i picked up a Wii. it's a lot of fun.

it comes with a composite cable standard and you have to buy a component cable adapter to get 480p. word of advice, go to nintendo store right now and backorder your component cables along with any extra goodies you think you'll want. it comes with one wiimote and one nunchuck. i'd recommend getting another wiimote, another nunchuck, at least one classic controller and the component adapter.

i send my in72 composite through my pioneer receiver which upscales it to 1080i over hdmi and the image is pretty decent. i haven't tried sending it a pure 480i signal, but would venture to guess the there's not much difference. the component cables will make a huge difference.

you'll also want to make sure you have wireless so you can get the 2/3 updates that are out. there is talk of a usb to rj-45 network adapter but i don't think it's out yet.

good luck and have fun!

your son will be stoked! it's a lot of fun and definitley something the whole family can enjoy together.

Just curious, what's a Wii ?

Just curious, what's a Wii ?


Its a VIDEO GAME

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/1543/rvlhardwarephoto29540x4xm3.th.jpg (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rvlhardwarephoto29540x4xm3.jpg)
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=543718&adid=0100000031361411502498


cheers

I'm afraid if I started playing video games I'd get way too involved. I remember a silly game that came with my mac in 1998 that had a dinosaur that had to find eggs to send to a mothership for cloning, and I could barely tear myself away from the computer!