I'm sure they are losing sales to the other two available BC projectors."No wine before its time"

Gulfstream Driver.........

Which model Gulfstream.......?

In a former life I flew the G-I, G-II, G-IIB, G-III (ac & dc).

I noticed on the Infocus website that there is now a universal ceiling mount (SP-CEIL-UNIV) for all the new Play Big projectors. It looks like this same mount also works with the 4805. However, I have the SP-CEIL-011 with my 4805. I was just wondering if this mount will also work with the IN76 ?
Yes, it will work. The SP-CEIL-011 and SP-CEIL-UNIV both use the same mounting plate, so the older ceiling mount is compatible with the new product line.

Finally, is the "Natural Wide" setting... the one that takes 4x3 images and stretches them to fill the 16x9 screen..., but it does the scretch mostly on the outsides of the image and leaves the aspect ration pretty much the same in the middle portion of the image?

Natural Wide takes a 4:3 source, keeps the middle unchanged, and stretches the left and right sides to fill the screen.

Correction:I have a Premier PBC 1.5 projector mount for my 4805, will I be able to use it for the IN76?

Aside from discrete on/off, would you mind sharing the other 8 functions now available? Or are they all related to the new functions? Or if there's a weblink...I seem to recall there was a spreadsheet somewhere of IF IR codes.

The 10 discrete functions are:
Discrete Power OFF
Discrete Power ON
Native Resize
16:9 Resize
4:3 Resize
Letterbox Resize
Natural Wide Resize
User Preset 1
User Preset 2
User Preset 3

Could you provide an example in pixels of the "3%" for the IN76? It sounded simple at first but I want to make sure I understand that impact on image. I get a lot of garbage via DVI on TWC that I'd love to get rid of...might just stage the PJ to crop full time if it does what I think.

On the IN76, the "Crop" overscan mode makes the 19 pixels on each side and 10 on the top and bottom black, masking out any image issues that can occur there (ABC on the West coast, for example, broadcasts a bright green line on the right edge of their HD feed). The overall image, however, is not rescaled. This is especially important for 720p content so that one does not lose sharpness.

As you mentioned its a 768 high chip with 48 turned off, is it using same mechanism to crop this 3%? (and may have been asked earlier, any plans to allow turning those back for max 4:3 viewing?

No. We do not even address those pixels. We are treating the DLP chip just as if it were a 1280x720 display.

[QUOTE]
I figured that 6500K would be the default temperature like it is with the 4805. Could you elaborate on this ?

The default temperature is 6500K, just like the SP4805. The native white point will get you a few more lumens, and if you want to calibrate the colors yourself you may want to start with the brightest mode.

(regarding flesh tone correction) Since this generally causes more problems with an image than it helps, I'm just curious why this was added. I'm glad to see that it is defeatable.

Similar to the Natural Wide resizing mode, this is a bell or whistle that many televisions have. Since the DNX processor already has this function we are including it at no extra charge.

1. If I have the IN76 ceiling mounted, what is the distance from the base of the projector (where the mount attaches) to the center line of the lens?

2. (How to ask this one?) perhaps - if there were a vertical line going from the top of my screen to the bottom that is right in the middle - ie. it is exactly the same distance from the left side and from the right side of the screen - would that line up with the vertical center of the lens? I guess I'm asking - is there a horizontal offset at all? Or does the middle of the lens line up with the middle of the screen horizontally?

3. Basically, I want to know - how much to the left or right of center horizontally do I need to mount the projector? Is it designed so that the center post of the mount is right in line with the lens, so I can just position the mount so that it is dead in line with the horizontal center of the screen? Or would the center post be out of line with the lens, meaning I would have to move the mount to the left or right of center a few inches to get the lens to line up dead on with the horizontal center of the screen? And if so, how much?

(Gosh...I hope that makes sense!)

According to Projector Central's numbers, the overall height of the IN76 is 4.7", but I'm not clear if this is with the swivel stand (which is not used with a ceiling mount, correct?) and I'm also not sure if the lens is exactly in the middle of the projector height wise?

Once I know the exact distance from where my mount attaches to the center line of the lens, and where I need to put the mount horizontally to get the image perfectly lined up horizontally on the screen, I can plan out the mount position to perfection :D

The image is centered horizontally in the lens. I have attached a picture, which is also included in the previous Excel calculator I posted earlier, that I think answers all of your other questions.

Bob, have you considered using this thread as a basis for an IN FAQ? As in, edited, simplified, shortened? It would be a fantastic sales tool for us, um, sales guys.

Especially since I'm going to debut the IN76, with Ole's help at the Albuquerque Museum of Art & History and a handout would sure be nice. I mean, oh, sure, I could do it *for* you, but that would require unpaid work!

BTW, the most flexible, sensible, easy to install PJ bracket I've found thus far (after many expensive mistakes) is the Vogel. It adapts to everything we through at it and is installed in minutes.

Back to your regular topic.

Thanks for the tip Kras. I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion of the IN76. It should be interesting to have someone so familiar with the 4805 compare the two.

Bob, you are THE MAN! It must be reiterated - you deserve a raise! :D

I'll wait to read a couple early reviews, just to make sure the picture is as good as I hope and expect it will be, and I will, of course, take a gander at one myself, just to be sure - but other than that...I'M SOLD! :D

And it's in no small part due to your responses here, Bob.

Thank you once again!

Jon

I have read through everything I could find on the IN76 and am anxiously looking forward to some real life reviews (major understatement there). I have also read through all the posts I could find on the Optoma HD72 and believe like some of you that my decision comes down to one of these 2 pj's.
If I absolutely had to replace my X1 a couple months ago it would have been the AE900U (and not the Z4 due to it's poor upconversion of regular (below 480p) sources. My sister has the AE700U and although the picture is relatively nice, the black levels don't appear to be any better than my X1 (I understand the 900 is significantly better).
At this point I have owned the X1 for a little over 3 years and actually only have 1303 hours on the original bulb. My brother has just over 3000 hours but started experiencing the bearing buzzsaw problem with his at around the 2500 hour point. I was considering jumping ship from Infocus for that problem seems to be very widespread thoughout at least the x1 and 4805 (although I have had no indication of any bearing noise on my own unit yet). It is disturbing that so many people have had this problem though. Something is seriously wrong when you can't even get through the lifespan of one bulb before the unit essentially needs to be replaced due to costing about as much to repair it as to buy a refurbished one.
After stating all of that, I want to say that Bob is pretty much single handedly restoring my faith in Infocus to deliver a good replacement product. He has been very forthcoming with information about their new product line and I like Sooooooooo many others want and need to let him know that his monitoring of our posts and answering of our questions and musings and volunteering of information (where he can that won't potentially cost him his job) is beyond appreciated and deserves extreme thanks on our parts.
Yes Bob I did see that you guys did change the bearing design (you posted it somewhere a ways back) and hopefully reasonably fixed the issue with that. Call me paranoid but every time I turn on my pj I listen to see if mine is going to start that buzzsaw racket (no indication of any problem whatsoever at this point). My brothers is so loud that it's basically unwatchable (although there is no issue with the actual picture). He is waiting as well as I am to see the new Infocus reviews before taking the plunge.
Some of you might be wondering how I only have 1300 hours on my bulb after owning it for a few years. Well, at the time my brother bought his a couple months before me and he raved about the pic quality for the money and of course the giant screen size. I then bought mine and at first used it quite alot but then as is usual with me started seeing faults and began critiquing everythin I watched not being satisfied with the picture and went into this never ending tweaking of the picture phase. My eyesite is actually 2 levels better than 20/20 and because I am a bit obsessive compulsive once I start down the "it could be a better picture road" I have a hard time just relaxing and enjoying the picture. Everytime I go to the movies (out to a movie) I invariably see everything that is wrong with the picture and most of the time end up thinking about those issues rather than enjoying a good flick. It actually ends up that 3/4 of those hours on the bulb are from letting my son play xbox on it.
I know there's no perfect picture out there. I'm just looking for a significant leap in quality that I believe this new generation will provide. My wife doesn't think there's anything wrong with the X1 picture as it is but she hasn't seen what a significantly better pj can do either.
Thanks so much also to Kraz and his input on things as well as many others in this forum. I am personally hoping that the IN76 is at least as good as the HD72.
Thank goodness Infocus didn't go with the Optomas crazy offset Bob! My basement is only about 7.5' high.

Bob
I checked the web site for details regarding the extended warranty.
I went all the way to the last link in the tree but it just says
additional plan for parts and labor available.

I am interested in the 1 or 2 year extended service plan which is $199 or 299
I believe.
Could you please clarify if this plan includes both parts and labor or just parts
and also if the shipping cost is covered when I send the unit back to
Infocus.
It might help everyone if more details are added to those links
in the web site regarding each plan. A tabular comparison of various plans
would be even better so that we can easily see the differences
and pick the plan we want, you know like how the cell phone
company web sites list their different plans side by side.
Thanks

I am also curious why Infocus has such a short standard warranty. Now I know that the Panasonic has only a one year warranty but its deep discounts make it easy to extend it in comparison with the Sanyo Z4. The optoma HD72 I believe has 2 years while the IN76 has only one. It's quite disappointing honestly.

NE1 know if Best Buy will carry this new line of Infocus's?

if you add the MSRP of 1299 to 1 yr extended warranty it comes to
1299+199 about 1500 which is same as what 4805 was first time.
hope that 199 includes both parts and labor instead of labor only.
The parts are ridiculously expensive.

Yeah Kras I see what you are saying as far as warranty goes but it seems as though the DLP war in the next couple of months is IN76 vs. HD72 and the HD72 has the better out of box warranty plus from what I remember reading on these forums a "no dead pixel" policy which as far as I know at this point Infocus doesn't have (although I would love that info. to be wrong).
I geuss I see them both hitting the same price point right now with each probably ending up having features that are class leading as well as the few gimmic ones tossed in for good measure ie. marketing strategy.
I think one of the most interesting will be the Far vs. Pix DNX comparison. Who/what projector is using the Pix DNX right now by the way that is the same as the IN76? Very curious to know how Far and Pix compare. The only thing I have "heard" is that supposedly 1080i is processed better/correctly on the Pix. Any comments? I REALLY am hoping waiting for the IN76 will be worth it!

Kras
Thanks for the clarification.
One more question for you or Bob
Is it mandatory that I buy the unit directly from Infocus
in order to buy the extended warranty and the lamp warranty?

Bob:
A question about the lumens and contrast on the IN76:
From what's been stated so far, it sounds as though a good portion of the stated brightness (at least on a new bulb) should be available at D65, since the projector has been designed to run close to that color temperature out of the box, but how close will the projector be to the stated 3000:1 contrast ratio at calibrated settings?
I'm curious because most existing HD2+ and BC projectors haven't been able to do 3000:1 calibrated, so I'm wondering how close to 3000:1 the IN76 will get in a reasonably calibrated, HT optimized mode?
Thanks for all your invaluable info so far!

here is a quote from PJcentral about the Sharp DT-100


"Another unusually upscale feature is the DT-100's sealed light path, which keeps dust out of the projector's inner workings. This prevents the possibility of dust spots ever forming on any part of the optical path. This means that there is no filter to worry about cleaning or changing periodically, which makes maintenance on the DT-100 a one-step process: simply change the lamp when necessary."

why cant this be done in all projectors?

To me sealed optics is worth a lot more than DVI or HDMI

From what I hear the HC3000 has a sealed optical path as well.

here is a quote from PJcentral about the Sharp DT-100


"Another unusually upscale feature is the DT-100's sealed light path, which keeps dust out of the projector's inner workings. This prevents the possibility of dust spots ever forming on any part of the optical path. This means that there is no filter to worry about cleaning or changing periodically, which makes maintenance on the DT-100 a one-step process: simply change the lamp when necessary."

why cant this be done in all projectors?

To me sealed optics is worth a lot more than DVI or HDMI
Like the Sharp - based on Bob's comments earlier in the thread, the IN72/74/76 are maintenance free as well. You don't have to vacuum screens like on the X1/4805. You just change the bulbs.

Dust blobs were a major weakness of the X1/4805 platform, but Bob did state that this new platform has improved dust resistance and gasketing. It would surprise me if the HC3000 was any better in this regard.

That quote from PJC is also misleading. Having the full light path sealed does not "prevent the possibility" of dust entering your DMD chamber as PJC claims. It may make it more difficult for dust contamination to occur, but it does not eliminate all chance of it. Just ask the NEC HT1000 owners who had to deal with dust blobs even though that PJ was "sealed".

I have a question about the contrast ratio. I know some stuff has been said about contrast but I haven't seen a good answer yet. How will the contrast compare with the Mitsubishi and the Optoma projectors that are using the same DLP chip. They are listed at 4000:1 and 5000:1 or something. Are they just under estimating their specs. I can't use the other because of the large offset. Thanks. :)

I do not know of any in-depth review yet. Review units have only just gone out, so the reviews you are likely to see at this time are the ones based on demos that our sales force has been giving.

Bob, on 1/13 you mentioned that 'review units just gone out'. It been a month and we still don't see any reviews. Is your new projector so good that it made reviewers forget why they got the unit in the first place :) ? Should we expect one soon or is this kind of review that is not supposed to be made public ?

Thanks, Davie.

It been a month and we still don't see any reviews.Publishing deadlines are a LOT longer than a month. Give it about 90 days, then complain.

Publishing deadlines are a LOT longer than a month. Give it about 90 days, then complain.

Relax dude, I am not complaining, just asking.

Which model Gulfstream.......?None as nice as yours! ;)

Was on the G100 for a while. Mostly Lear 25/35. In retirement, I currently own and fly a Gulfstream single, the AA-5A Cheetah.

Sitting in silence. Staring at the blank screen.
.
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.

The wife looks in the room and says, "So, when are you going to order us a new projector?" I'm really getting tired of waiting."

Looks up. Silence, except for the incessant "tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock" ringing in my ear.

" I'm waiting on InFocus, honey."

"Why"

"Because they whet my appetite three months ago with these trickles of information about this new projector coming out."

"You mean to tell me we've gone four months now waiting on a projector and it still hasn't been released?"

"Uhm.., yeah."

"Aren't there any other projectors you can buy? I mean, I saw one at Costco yesterday for less than $1000 and it's HDTV."

"Well, this one's better."

"How do you know? You haven't even seen it."

"Well, there's this guy from In Focus that writes and tells everybody about it and how great it is. I'm thinking it may be worth the wait."

"For who? Not me."

DING-DONG! DING-DONG! (The doorbell rings.)

"Who is that?"

"I don't know, I'll get it." (she walks to door and opens it.)

"Can I help you?"

"Hello Madam. My name is Joe Optoma and I'm selling this incredible new product for homes just like yours. Do you have a minute?"

DO YOU HEAR THE CLOCK TICKING, INFOCUS? :D

Don't do it, Digital! Door to door salesman aren't to be trusted! There's always a catch. :D

Nice story. :)

Haha.....thats hilarious......I'm in the same boat with wifee.....just waiting for the Infocus salesman to knock on my door.

The biggest difference I see between the IN76 and the HD72 is the 1080P de-interlacing. on Over The Air broadcast in 1080i with the HD72 thats what you'll get, so the Faroudja chip won't be doing much but on the IN76 it will be upscaled to 1080P. I love DCDi and when I've seen it in action it's worked miracles. I have never seen the Pixelworks scaler but just figure it rocks since Infocus is using it. On the HD72 with a future Blue-Ray or HD-DVD player the 1080i wont be a big deal as those player will probably come with killer decoder/de-interlacers in one form or fashion or maybe Blu-Ray and HD-DVD's are all 1080P to start with, can't remember. But FREE over the air 1080i should look fabulous on the IN76. What do the rest here think about the DCDi vs the Pixelworks features. What other work does the Faroudja chip do on a 1080i signal?

Bob, I have a few questions for you about the IN76.

Upscaling to 480P in my DVD players looks decent enough without a great scaler in my projector, but upscaling analog 480i cable in my cable box looks pretty bad. The AE900U does a decent job with bad SD, as does the 4805.

I sure wish I could get Sci Fi channel in HD! That would rock! :D ... but because It's not available, let me sum up my question... With the change from DCDi to Pixelworks, will the scaling in the IN76 do as good of a job with lousy SD material as the 4805 did?

(I ask my question using general terms to benefit others, but I'm specifically thinking about Battlestar Galactica at the moment).

DO YOU HEAR THE CLOCK TICKING, INFOCUS? :D

LOL, where is the GulfstreamDriver when we need him with his wine quote :) ?

But seriously, if dealers are going to have this unit on 3/13, IN76 should be in "full scale automotive production" (quote from Chicken Run) by our friends in China right now. And with reviewers having this unit for a month, there should be some information leaking out about its performance. If InFocus really has something special out there then I think they should be "leaking" this information themselves to stop people from buying Optoma and Mitsubishi.

The other explanation, of course, is they've been smart enough to learn from Mits and Optoma offset fiasco. Lots (but not all) of people will wait whatever it takes because they really have no other option for low cost 720p DLP PJ other then InFocus.

BTW, did Mitsubishi door-to-door salesman stop by too ? :rolleyes:

Disclaimer: I am not a hardware engineer, so this is strictly my personal opinion. :D

A bit of industry chatter ...

New Brand Strength Report Highlights Movers and Shakers in the Projection Industry (http://www.tfcinfo.com/newsdetail.cfm?newsid=56)

Research highlights:

Strongest Brand: InFocus (NASDAQ:INFS)

InFocus is the strongest brand in the projection industry! InFocus remains #1 in each segment surveyed on unaided and aided brand awareness. InFocus maintains its position as the brand leader.

Most Improved Awareness: Dell (NASDAQ:DELL)

Dell has moved up at least ten positions on unaided and aided brand awareness over the last few years. This year, Dell improves upon their percentages in every market segment surveyed on aided awareness.

Most Potential in ALL Market Segments: NEC

NEC is consolidating its position among business users, and is successfully transferring its positive brand image and reputation to other segments such as government. NEC has taken the #3 spot on unaided brand awareness for the first time.

Break Through: Panasonic

Panasonic improves greatly on awareness and important brand image criteria. Panasonic is in the coveted top five on awareness, and also achieves stellar perception scores on many important brand attributes.

Most Focused: Epson

Epson stands out again this year among those in education! Epson is a brand used, considered, and even most-desired among those in this segment. Epson is strengthening its position and brand image with government users.

Most Potential: Mitsubishi

The right distribution and marketing will propel Mitsubishi's brand. Awareness is only one aspect of a strong brand. Mitsubishi's awareness is in line, and their image is strong and clear -- even more distinct than some top brands. Mitsubishi places among the top five on several important brand attributes.

Honorable Mention: Sony

Sony performs well on aided awareness, and is one of the most considered brands for purchase. Sony's brand image is strong, and correlated with quality, but at a price.

Strongest Brand: InFocus (NASDAQ:INFS)

InFocus is the strongest brand in the projection industry! InFocus remains #1 in each segment surveyed on unaided and aided brand awareness. InFocus maintains its position as the brand leader.

And it seems like it will stay that way.

PS: wb cavu

None as nice as yours! ;)

Was on the G100 for a while. Mostly Lear 25/35. In retirement, I currently own and fly a Gulfstream single, the AA-5A Cheetah.

Congratulations on your "graduation!" I left the corporate world and have been flying a "baby boeing" for Herb for the last 19 years... however graduation is nearing for me also unless they make a change.......

You know you could always turn that Cheetah into a Tiger!

BrilliantColor and the ASIC that enables it were not ready in time for the development cycle of the IN76. That is why we have not included it. We did not feel that the benefits of BrilliantColor were worth waiting for.

Yet here we are waiting for the IN76 while some BrilliantColor PJ's have been in the streets for well over 100 days. Next.

Okay...... back OT

Sean I feel your pain..... I have great hope for the SciFi channel to switch to HD... being that some of their best stuff they are paying the production costs for... perhaps it will happen sooner than later.

Eclipse......

I had the opportunity to look at all of these projectors at CES.... and I too am waiting for some professional insight... it is absolutely impossible for me to give you a meaningful review with 3 projectors that were in different rooms, showing different material, and on different size and types of screens.

What I can say is I eliminated the Mits early on (IMHO & YMMV). I only sat thru the InFocus demo twice... I think Bob intentionally put the hard plastic chairs in there to keep the folks moving. Optoma had a darker venue for the HD72 (and fewer people in and out while I was there) which would enhance the viewing, however I think you will thoroughly enjoy the IN76 when it shows up....

I chewed my fingernails to the bone two years ago waiting for BenQ to get the 8700+ on the street and it was well worth the wait. I feel the angst that we are suffering now will be more than adequately compensated by the quality of the projector that Bob & Co. deliver.

Bob,
Please don't hurry on our account, too many cooks in the kitchens of these boards. You've already provided more information in this thread than all the reviews I've read in past few years combined. We know it will look great because our 4805s look great. As for brilliant color, doesn't look like it causing much hoopla, what's the big deal etc. Sounds like you made smart choices.

I'd rather have it later and right than sooner and wrong...

HIHO: BTW TWC just offered up new HD channel called Universal HD Network. They're showing BSG in Hi Def, looks like a movie, stunning. My analog SciFi channel is horrendous.

Yet here we are waiting for the IN76 while some BrilliantColor PJ's have been in the streets for well over 100 days. Next.
Well it seems that the folks who own those BrilliantColor pj's are turning that feature off, if they can, or are running BC on the lower end of it's setting in order to get a better image. The more that I read about BC, the happier I am knowing that Infocus isn't using it.

Well it seems that the folks who own those BrilliantColor pj's are turning that feature off, if they can, or are running BC on the lower end of it's setting in order to get a better image. The more that I read about BC, the happier I am knowing that Infocus isn't using it.

Smithfarmer, while I agree with your comments about BC, I think it doesn't hurt to have it as long as you can turn it off. I'd rather have it and decide for myself if I want to use it vs. having this decision made for me.

BC may also come in very handy when bulb start losing it's brightness and even if some users are turning this feature off right now (I've read that most of new HD72 users prefer to have PJ with BC value of 3), they might revisit their settings once they get more hours on their bulb.

Thanks, Davie.

HIHO: BTW TWC just offered up new HD channel called Universal HD Network. They're showing BSG in Hi Def, looks like a movie, stunning. My analog SciFi channel is horrendous.

Yes I have seen a few of them on UHD....., but the one's I saw were last year's... I have not seen any of the current season on UHD... have you?

I have my HD-Tivo setup with a Battlestar Wishlist so anything on any channel should have recorded... but I have not seen any on UHD for a number of months... at least on the UHD that DTV is providing......

Smithfarmer, while I agree with your comments about BC, I think it doesn't hurt to have it as long as you can turn it off. I'd rather have it and decide for myself if I want to use it vs. having this decision made for me.

BC may also come in very handy when bulb start losing it's brightness and even if some users are turning this feature off right now (I've read that most of new HD72 users prefer to have PJ with BC value of 3), they might revisit their settings once they get more hours on their bulb.

Thanks, Davie.

There are a couple things about the IN76 that bother me like this. Like not using the entire DMD to give us the option of more (or any) digital shift, the ability to use the whole panel for 2.35 movies (a la the HD72) and no BC.

If it weren't for the offset I dunno how much interest there would be unless its really going to be price competitive with the HD72.

Hopefully it will be brighter than the HD72 though both use a 4x wheel. I guess I'm really hoping that INFS comes out with a business/cross over projector with the new DMD.

Nigel

HIHO: BTW TWC just offered up new HD channel called Universal HD Network. They're showing BSG in Hi Def, looks like a movie, stunning. My analog SciFi channel is horrendous.

We need to enjoy it while we can. It seems TWC only carries UniversalHD only for the Olympics and Wimbledon and then drops it when its over. Hopefully it will stay.

After reading this thread it seems that the IN76 will
have the same utility with a anamorphic lens as the
4805.Is this correct?
Secondly has there ever been consideration or thought
about asking TI for a native 2.35:1 dmd to implement
into a new projector or is there a possibility of this
on the horizon?
T.I.A.

Projectorcentral just posted a review of the Optoma HD72.

well the variable (not so quiet) fan noise blows the deal.
I didnt have to bother to read further reviews of HD72

I dont think lack of brilliant color in IF76 is a problem. In general
human eye is more perceptive to black and white (contrast)
than color differences so may be that BC thing shoulld be dropped
from the debates.

Projectorcentral just posted a review of the Optoma HD72.

You're in the wrong thread. In case you didn't notice, this is the INFOCUS thread NOT the Optoma...

You're in the wrong thread. In case you didn't notice, this is the INFOCUS thread NOT the Optoma...

You may not have noticed, but a significant number of posts in this thread discuss how the IN 76 will compare to the HD 72, that along with the fact that they both use the same new TI 768 DLP chip. Hence it's relevant.

Even if it wasn't relevant, was your 'this isn't the Optoma thread' any more relevant? It didn't in any way ad to the discussion, sort of like my post is not adding to it.

@ all

I found the IN76 for a pre-order price MUCH lower than the posted MSRP. It is nearly competitive with the HD72 street prices.

I won't post the link but search the web for IN76 and you'll find it sooner or later. Just like to see a review before deciding which new 720p DLP to commit to.

Kras - any good info you can share from the dealer training? Did you actually get to see these PJs in action?

kevivoe

Keep in mind that just because Infocus changed the sub-brand to ScreenPlay to Play Big - it does not change their dealer policies.

For Home Entertainment products all online dealers that are authorized conform to minimium advertising pricing guidelines on their web sites. If you find it posted for less - it is likely they are unauthorized - you can check the where to buy info on the Infocus site.

Well, they sure don't make it easy to confirm is someone is an authorized reseller. The general buy info (off the FAQ page) on the INFS site takes you to a dead link.

On the individual product page buy link it gives you a zip code box (there are no IN76 resellers within 100 miles of Washington DC evidently...although I'm pretty sure the local magnolia carries the older INFS models) and shows 4 online resellers, one of which is InFocus itself.

Frankly, if they don't get within the same range as the HD72 it appears that the only selling advantage is the offset, possibly brightness and Bob.

Well, I like Bob. And I like INFS. But not enough to fork over an extra $1K if the HD72 actually fit in my room.

Nigel

For Home Entertainment products all online dealers that are authorized conform to minimium advertising pricing guidelines on their web sites. If you find it posted for less - it is likely they are unauthorized - you can check the where to buy info on the Infocus site.

Krasmuzik, can you tell us what is estimated street price for IN76 expected to be ? I really don't see why InFocus wouldn't want to release this information.

With froogle searches it is all over the place. All internet dealers listed on InFocus site have it at MSRP 3K and now I also see that Crutchfield has changed delivery date from 3/13 to 3/31. Did they tell you at training when it will be available ?

Thanks, Davie.

Frankly, if they don't get within the same range as the HD72 it appears that the only selling advantage is the offset, possibly brightness and Bob.

I can't get past the feeling that the HD72 is a step down in performance from either the IN76 or the HC3000. This is pure conjecture on my part of course - I've seen none of these projectors in person, but there was a head to head review in the HD72 thread where the member thought the HC3000 was superior. I'm just bothered by the fact that the HD72 is using a white segment. That's not a performance compromise I need or want.

Although the owner reviews of the HD72 have been generally positive, there's some mild second quessing going on over there - one person was disappointed in the PQ and stepped up to the H78DC3, other people are wondering if they should step up, there's concern about white crushing and motion artifacts, etc. I don't see that in the HC3000 thread. Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines here, but time will tell.

I said a while ago that I'd be willing to spend more for the IN76 versus the HD72. Nothing has happened to change my mind yet. :)

I said a while ago that I'd be willing to spend more for the IN76 versus the HD72. Nothing has happened to change my mind yet. :)

JeffKB, it all depends on how much more -- I am trying to find exactly how much do they expect IN76 street price to be ? I am very confused and not sure why this should be such a highly guarded secret. The only online deals I see out there from InFocus are MSRPs at 3K, all others -- I am not sure who to trust here since Krasmuzik now says there a lots of unauthorized dealers if they sell for less then MAP. Does anybody know what is MAP for IN76 so we can easily identify good and bad dealers ?

Nigel_ht mentioned an extra 1K over HD72 and I can't see them being remotely competitive at this price with 1yr warranty. One can get H78DC3 DarkChip3 PJ at 3.3K with free lamp, mount, lens shift and 2 yr warranty to put it in perspective. So it's all relative to price.

Thanks, Davie.

JeffKB, it all depends on how much more -- I am trying to find exactly how much do they expect IN76 street price to be ? I am very confused and not sure why this should be such a highly regarded secret. The only online deals I see out there from InFocus are MSRPs at 3K, all others -- I am not sure who to trust here since Krasmuzik now says there a lots of unauthorized dealers if they sell for less then MAP. Does anybody know what is MAP for IN76 so we can easily identify good and bad dealers ?

Nigel_ht mentioned an extra 1K over HD72 and I can't see them being remotely competitive at this price with 1yr warranty. One can get H78DC3 DarkChip3 PJ at 3.3K with free lamp, mount, lens shift and 2 yr warranty to put it in perspective. So it's all relative to price.

Thanks, Davie.

It's a policy here on AVS to not discuss non-MSRP pricing.

Hi Davie - I think the IN76 needs to be competitively priced with the HC3000 to really do well. I don't think either one of those necessarily needs to meet the price point of the HD72 however.

Since the IN76 MAP is currently $2999, that's all you're going to see advertised from the authorized online vendors. I'm sure some of those vendors will be discounting off of that once the PJ comes out, but you'll probably have to call them (maybe some will do the "Add to cart" trick). We'll just have to wait and see.

I like InFocus and would like to stick with the brand, but I agree that the full MAP is not too appealing at this point.

I like InFocus and would like to stick with the brand, but I agree that the full MAP is not too appealing at this point.
As already noted, with the prices the H78DC3 selling for (including extra bulb and nice mount), it would be virtually impossible to suggest buying this Infocus with its lesser chip and lesser features. This unit will have to compete in price with the HD72 and the HC 3000s new lower street price (and considering its delayed release, it may still have trouble getting traction in the market).

@ kras

I just spoke to InFocus sales today (with the intent to purchase) and they talked me out of the 7210 and told me to wait for the IN76!

The IN76 is short throw so it really does not meet my needs.

I am still looking for a 2.0-2.4 throw PJ with >3000:1 CR. InFocus sales told me to wait for the IN76 release as the spec. may change??? I doubt it.

Infocus has never competed in price with any of the internet only distributed models...They are not the cheapest nor are they they most expensive
True, but they were always competitive. The discrepancy was not huge considering the price of the units, and the fact that the 7210 had a market to fill (i.e. bright projector, good OOTB calibration, and decent contrast).
Not everyone thinks the TI chipset is a better chip - other than that they all have the same DMD.
Well, this chip seems to be slower than the DC 3 and it shows more artifacts, at least that was the finding of some users when they compared the HD72 with the HD78DC3.
The release is not delayed - Infocus said Q1 after CES and has yet to say they are delaying that. The SP4805 taking six months to deliver after CES did not stop it from selling out all other DVD projectors did it?
Sorry for my lack of clarity, but delayed I was speaking in relative terms as compare to the competition. You correctly point out that the SP4805 sold well, and its only real competition in the DLP market was released after the IF (the Optoma H31). So they were in fact early in the market in that case.
People are still buying SP7210 at a major premium over H78DC3. If people are paying a premium that is close to 75% the price of the H78DC3, I bet you the sales volume on that projector would be minor in comparison to the H78DC3, despite the advantages of the IF (and to my mind it has many). As you know, market share is important, and IF can ill afford that the IF76 become a niche player.
This projector has a number of apparent strengths (starting with the brightness and image offset), but in this market, $$ counts, and many people would compromise to save a couple of hundred dollars in this price range, and sadly we are talking a lot more than that at the present price differential. However, considering how aggressive they were with the pricing strategy with the 4805, it would not surprise me if they adopt such a strategy with this line to regain market share from Optoma and Mits.

@ kras

I have blue tape on my screen substrate and on the ceiling. Since I have 2 towers flanking the screen substrate there is no way to grow the screen more than 103" wide (118" diagonal) I have even priced custom cuts and frames up to this size. My existing data port and outlet in the ceiling is 19.5' back. The IN76 mounts in the 16.3' range and the back of the unit puts it at 17.5'. I then have the nasty 2' of cable and cords hanging .... not good. I am speaking to a cabinet maker about a special channel to hide the outlet, data port an 2' of cables/cords. This is a compromise and if I am willing to do that then the HC3000, HD72 also come into play. I am unwilling to pay $300 more for similar performance which I expect they all have.

k

I have to say personally that the price difference between an HD72 at 2g's and the as of right now 3g's for the IN76 hurts. It's not that I don't have the bucks, it's trying to justify to the wife another grand. My wife happens to be one of the few women on the planet that spends basically nothing on herself. She could acare less about flowers, jewelry, clothes, you name it. It's her husband she has to be concerned about where spending comes in (and I am quite thrify compared to the "normal" 40 year old male).
I understand what Kras is saying and have great respect for his experience and input but for 1/3 more dough (which IS significant in this range), the IN76 has to prove itself to have more than just offset in its favor. Makes no sense to pay that much more without real tangible improvements in PQ.
Can't understand IF's line of reasoning if the real price (add-in-cart price) isn't within a couple hundred especially since the standard warranty is a year less. Any manufacturer who claims their product is superior in quality to the competition but doesn't back it up with at least the same warranty just doesn't make sense to me.
The thing is, I desperately want the IN76 to be better! I am waiting for the reviews just like many others. 720p DLP around the 2g's mark is here and allready out by two manufacturers that I know of at this point. I hope I am not expecting too much believing that the street price from an authorized etailor will end up close to the others so I won't feel too put off purchasing at least another year of warranty.

How much each of us is willing to pay for a projector is so subjective it's nuts. Is the IN76 worth $1k more than the HD72? Heck, I dunno. Might as well ask if the HD72 is worth $1k more than the IN72. Or maybe we should all just donate the money to a worthy cause and keep our 4805s. Or be 'real home theatre enthusiasts' and jump over to the over $3500 thread. ;)
For me, I am trying to keep in mind I was willing to pay the same for a Z4 6 months ago. In the meantime, the Z4 has gotten a lot cheaper and I am anxiously awaiting the reviews on the IN76 like the rest of us.

Mike

There are bound to be deals at AUTHORIZED dealers too. So don't worry too much about price until these projectors are released. I know we're all getting anxious, but what's one more month? :)

Kras,

How would I locate an ISF Certified calibrator in NYC? Is there a centralized web site that lists them? Also, would all ISF Certified calibrators be able to gather the kind of data that people expect to see in a PJ review (i.e. calibrated contrast rating, actual lumens etc.) or do only the hardcore folks have equipment for that?

Thanks,

Dan

i thinK i,ll wait for the street price to come down ALOT! my 4805 is just humming along just fine only if and when it has shown its last movie will i upgrade, to me spending the extra bucks on basically a 4805 with a new body and couple of more options just isn,t worth it yet IMHO.......

Heh...yeah 720p vs 480p is just a "couple more options".

DanC_P, check out the bio of ISF founder, Kevin Miller here:

http://www.imagingscience.com/kevin_bio.htm

This is the last email I have for him, ( he can probably do a calibration for you): kevin@isftv.com

* you could have simply" Googled" ISF, (Imaging Science Foundation ;)

There are bound to be deals at AUTHORIZED dealers too. So don't worry too much about price until these projectors are released. I know we're all getting anxious, but what's one more month? :)

Way back when, I bought my 4805 for less than MAP from our very own friends at AVS. So yeah, there are certainly deals to be had -- don't be afraid to pick up the phone and CALL!

How old are the figures on MAP? Isn't Infocus known for being flexible with that figure, especially as the market changes? I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the $3000 figure drop a little bit after Infocus gets a feel for how the projector is performing (unless, of course, it sells like gangbusters).

Remember kids, you can always lower your price and make people happy. It is a LOT harder to raise it without creating a whole new model.

It seems to be the thing to do is not buy the IN76 early unless you really must; IF cut the price of the 4805 several times when the projector was still very popular for whatever reasons. Those who bought early probably paid 40% or more over those who waited and that was when the 4805 had little competition other than the Optoma 30/31. There is now considerable competition in the 720p space.

It's a policy here on AVS to not discuss non-MSRP pricing.

Ja Phule, for my information can you please refer me to the document where this policy is stated ?

Forum Rules and Policies document does not appear to have any reference to that:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/rules.html

Thanks, Davie.

take the forum policy discussions to the forum feedback forum....

move along...

I am not discussing forum policies, at least I am not the one who started it. Just asking for help so I don't make another "mistake" of discussing non-MSRP prices.
And if you can't help me with that, perhaps somebody else can.

Ja Phule, for my information can you please refer me to the document where this policy is stated ?

Forum Rules and Policies document does not appear to have any reference to that:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/rules.html

Thanks, Davie.


Please note the stickies at the top of the forum ;)

@ all

I found the IN76 for a pre-order price MUCH lower than the posted MSRP. It is nearly competitive with the HD72 street prices.

I won't post the link but search the web for IN76 and you'll find it sooner or later. Just like to see a review before deciding which new 720p DLP to commit to.

Found it... thanks!

Heh...yeah 720p vs 480p is just a "couple more options".


HEH..YEAH.... if its worth it to you go for it! but at more than double the price for a street priced 4805 to me i can,t see the value :rolleyes:

p.s. if it ain,t broke don,t fix or replace it i don,t know about you but i can,t replace my p.j. everytime a new model comes ...... :mad:

Well see Penticton102's problem is his part of Canada is not snowed in for the winter... :eek:

so he has something else he can do all winter long but watch movies! :p

Well see Penticton102's problem is his part of Canada is not snowed in for the winter... :eek:

so he has something else he can do all winter long but watch movies! :p


:D :D

Yes the mods can be quite "helpful" for noobs making sure they get it - even if they have to delete a good thread to make their point.Don't worry Kras, we'll try and keep this one open. ;)

Nobody does reviews like I do - and I will do a mail in calibration for less than an in-home calibration (as you miss out on the basic setup and room tweaking and pay for shipping/insurance) . First of something new I calibrate gets a full review of all modes, no extra cost. Though I will probably be the first myself with a new IN76 - and only a faded lamp needs my services when you have Infocus.

The ISF site says who has equipment. Kevin Miller is one of the best with some killer gear.
Thanks for the tip Kras. I wish you lived in NYC - we could have a couple of beers and put this baby through the ringer (although drinking and calibrating is probably a no-no). I'd do the mail-in but time is of the essence and I'd like to see the process in person.

Dan

I was once trying to fix a customers ground loop - even though I had dental surgery that week I wanted to get it done. Dark room - and I am getting dizzy looking at the dark screen looking for noise. I made the mistake of backing into his octopus armed glass lamp - freaked me out! He was cool about it and we laughed about breaking the wifes things and supergluing them together hoping she would never notice....

So yes you cannot do the job under the influence!

On a serious note - ask your calibrators permission before you go posting reports. Some of them like to remain manufacturer friendly to get consulting gigs - and do not want to see their stuff posted saying how lame the manufacturers can be.... :) :)
Another good tip -- thanks Kras.

ask on the SP4805 thread if any of the original buyers regret paying $1500. None of them did regret it - even though the only way to get it was a mail-order outfit at MSRP. They all get six months to a year enjoyment out of it while you were watching a blank wall.

Thanks for giving us the dealers view - upgrade early and often. All I am saying if you are getting reasonable service from your current set up don't be in a hurry to upgrade. Often the benefits of upgrading are not that obvious to any but those with the most discriminating eyes. As for me, I struggled along with my trusty LT150 long after the 4805 was available but I did upgrade when I thought the price was reasonable for the benefits I could see on the screen. So take your blank wall and ... oh never mind.

Cheers
Peter

But yet you have been a member for years with thousands of posts - so why are you still subscribed to AVS then? I bet if you did a study of frequent projector upgraders - they would all be AVSers :D


??????? i don,t understand what that has to do with anything just look at post #655 i think the author exsplains my point better than i did......... :rolleyes:

When (and why) to upgrade is a personal choice. I think everyone reading is just fine with your decisions to keep your current projectors - after all, it's YOUR decision. ;)

I was once trying to fix a customers ground loop - even though I had dental surgery that week I wanted to get it done. Dark room - and I am getting dizzy looking at the dark screen looking for noise. I made the mistake of backing into his octopus armed glass lamp - freaked me out! He was cool about it and we laughed about breaking the wifes things and supergluing them together hoping she would never notice....



So, did she notice? :D

I wasn't planning on upgrading this year since I really am enjoying my 4805's picture, but since I've got the Xbox 360, and I plan on finally getting my antennae mounted properly for some HD programming, I wanted to jump up to 720p. Really I want 1080p, but that's not in this forum yet!

There's a chance I won't upgrade though. Depends on work. Construction is such an iffy thing.

Bob, how would a IN76 compare with a 7200? Would it be an "upgrade" from a 7200 to IN76?

Yes I saw the projectors in action...
and....and....and....

Just tryin' to put you on the spot! :D

i heard an eta rumor of first week of march, anybody hear different?

:D :D

I've upgraded the Fisher-Price to Playskool anyway.

i heard an eta rumor of first week of marchI spoke with an InFocus district sales manager last week; he told me 'end of the month' for the '72 and 'a couple weeks later' for the others.

I spoke with an InFocus district sales manager last week; he told me 'end of the month' for the '72 and 'a couple weeks later' for the others.
FWIW - a major authorized online retailer is now showing 3/31 as the ETA of their IN76 stock when just a short while ago they showed it as 3/13. IN72 shows 3/20 as the ETA...

Also FWIW - this retailer was the first one to receive stock of the 4805 when it initially came out. Beat everyone else by a couple of weeks.

FWIW - a major authorized online retailer is now showing 3/31 as the ETA of their IN76 stock when just a short while ago they showed it as 3/13. IN72 shows 3/20 as the ETA...

Also FWIW - this retailer was the first one to receive stock of the 4805 when it initially came out. Beat everyone else by a couple of weeks.
I was told by InFocus today that the review units of the IN76 (which precede the consumer launch) will not be available until at least mid-March. Not sure what that means but I thought I'd share :) . I'm not sure they know exactly when they will start shipping either unit.

HEH..YEAH.... if its worth it to you go for it! but at more than double the price for a street priced 4805 to me i can,t see the value :rolleyes:


Well, if you want to denigrate the resolution difference expect some push back. I'm pretty damn tired of the 4805 mafia.

Nigel

Why is the IN76 warranty only 1 year? That sucks, now they're down there with Panasonic. Infocus' website says they are expected to ship in mid March.

Well, if you want to denigrate the resolution difference expect some push back. I'm pretty damn tired of the 4805 mafia.

Nigel


???who,s denigrating anything? just pointing out obvious difference in price versus resolution. so whats the problem????? :mad: :mad:

Why is the IN76 warranty only 1 year? That sucks, now they're down there with Panasonic. Infocus' website says they are expected to ship in mid March.

I'm sure that was a move to cut cost. However, the difference with InFocus compared to Panasonic or most other manufacturers is that InFocus allows you to purchase "real" manufacturer's warranties beyond the included warranty. With Panasonic your only option is to buy dubious 3rd party warranty coverage.

Still trying to figure this one out....Does anyone know what the exact policy Infocus has concerning dead pixels? Can't seem to find it anywhere....

Nirvana, my point is I don't want to have to spend more money to purchase an extended warranty. If they're going to a 1 year warranty to lower prices, then it should be a couple hundred dollars less than other DLP competitor's models. We shall see.

Does anyone know what the exact policy Infocus has concerning dead pixels?

Is there a dead pixel policy?

Yes there is, but you will need to contact our technical support people for this information. I believe the policy is essentially the same as the production line specification for the DLP devices
.

Kras or anyone... when can we expect the IN76 to be available? This is looking more and more like the right projector for us. Our room will be ready in 3-4 weeks. It won't be easy waiting after that.

Kras, you and many others have been showing us HT noobies the light for a long time. I've been browsing this forums for a while and I always learn something from your posts.

Anyway, I'm fixing to pull the trigger on a pre-order for an IN76. Question is, what warranty should I choose? I will be happy with 720p for a long long time, and won't upgrade in at least the next 5 years. I know that the DLP color wheel repairs are very expensive, so it could save me money in the long run if I do at least a 3 year warranty.

How often are these warranties actually used? I haven't seen much feedback by forum members on PJ failures.

Thanks,

Jim


Infocus is just making extra years optional to reduce cost - but they are more than willing to provide factory service for years if that is what you want. You do not even have to buy the warranty at purchase if you would rather wait a year and see if you are going to keep it - buy the warranty then. A factory extended warranty is very very different than some dubious store warranty - and I am someone who would never encourage anyone to buy a store warranty. One only need to read the chain stores quarterly financials to see they are a better deal for the store than you.

Kras
That is interesting and good news. Correct me if I have understood it wrong.

I can buy the extended warranty any time before the 1 year manufacturer's
warranty expires.

Also can I keep extending the warranty each year by buying for another year
or I have to buy all the extended warranty at one time.

Thanks

???who,s denigrating anything? just pointing out obvious difference in price versus resolution. so whats the problem????? :mad: :mad:

Perhaps because the IN76 is more than a "4805 with a few more options". It's in a different weight category. The IN72 is a 4805 with a few more options.

It's also getting pretty tiresome that a INFS installer is pushing the extended warranty while decrying "trolls and shills".

Amusingly, the justification vs the 3 yr Optoma warranty w/no dead pixel policy is that you pay for a warranty instead of ISF calibration (by a ISF tech...one that advertised his services in this very thread with the comment "nobody does reviews like I do" and that his mail in calibrations are "cheaper than in-home calibrations").

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I cannot use the HD72 because of the offset. I've never owned an Optoma or InFocus (nor any stock). I am in the market for a new DLP projector and it seems the only two remaining projectors in this forum for me are the IN76 and the AN110 (which appears to be MIA in the US). That or a presentation projector which may ultimately be my choice again.

But please. Don't try to sell me on the idea that a 1 year warranty is better than a 3 year warranty or that selling me an extended warranty is actually a benefit to me.

Especially don't tell me that a factory warranty from a company posting 28% decline in sales in Q4 of 2005 and $79M in losses in 2005 is that much safer than a store warranty. As a consumer both appear to me as dubious values in comparison to the typical 2nd business day swap warranty that many presentation projectors come with (1 yr swap, 3 yr p&l) as well as the Optoma warranty in question.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060201/1222424.html?.v=2

Personally, I hope that INFS has a great year and their new China partnership lowers their costs and get them back to profitability. I've liked their HT designs in general (lumens over CR) over their competitors. And yes, out of box it seems from the reports that they are pretty good in comparison to some competitors. I certainly appreciate that from a manufacturer. I guess that's the Bob factor.

Nigel

I bet many reading the forums wish they could delete posts they do not want to read to improve the signal to noise of a thread. So I have take upon myself to delete all of my posts in this thread. I encourage people to decide for themselves if that increased the signal or noise.

For those who I had referred a part number or price that only an authorized dealer would know - I apologize - feel free to PM if you did not yet write it down. But you can take the opportunity looking for the info in the thread first to see what the forum would be like if no local installers took time out of their day to help you with your probems - even when they do not sell online and someone else will profit from their help.

For those looking for posts from the local meet I mentioned this Sunday - sorry but I doubt you will find any posts regarding the meet. We have several experienced and well equipped calibrators - including an Infocus Engineer who is bringing his calibration equipment back from the chinese factory - as well as a sample of each Play Big projector. Combine that with a sample of each current ScreenPlay projector from a local installer - it will be a fun meet. But since we would not want to increase the noise ratio of the forum - we will keep it local and not post.

So enjoy the thread as you browse back thru it - and take note of what the signal to noise ratio would be if you could indeed vote posters "off the island". And no my posts will not be coming back - I really did delete them. Often when one is self-employed one most take a step back and figure out what ones most efficient use of time is - and cleary posting to AVS is not in that category.

What are supposed to do? Bow down and kiss your feet, Kras? Are you gonna take your ball and go home? Gee whiz...and that was our only ball too...shucks.

Maybe if you didn't put down new members and act so high and mighty, people might not come down so hard on you. But I guess this whole place will just fall apart without you, eh?

Honestly...what are you? 12?

"If you don't agree with everything I say, I'm not going to play with you guys anymore!"

boo hoo.

You should learn a thing or two from Bob. People like him and thank him and respect his opinion because he is self-less. You, on the other hand, seem to think we all owe you something for your precious time. If it really bugs you so much that people have a problem with the way you deliver your information, then it really is time to move on. I like the information you provide, but not the way you provide it. I can do without the high horse.

Maybe we can actually talk about the IN76 now instead of trying to infer who has the bigger penis.

Peace.

Jon

I agree with you 100% Nigel, thank goodness someone posted what you did. I was getting tired of it too........

I have take upon myself to delete all of my posts in this thread. I encourage people to decide for themselves if that increased the signal or noise.
[...]
see what the forum would be like if no local installers took time out of their day to help you with your probems
[&c]

Fortunately most users these days are too lazy to trim the quoted text in their own postings to the minimum necessary. I guess there's an upside to this.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

I bet many reading the forums wish they could delete posts they do not want to read to improve the signal to noise of a thread.They can, it's called the ignore button.

I'm not "exactly" sure what has caused this thread to go down hill but it is a forum for the public and people are allowed to express their opinions as long as they don't break any rules.

Often when one is self-employed one most take a step back and figure out what ones most efficient use of time is - and cleary posting to AVS is not in that category.That is your opinions and you are welcome to it. I've asked you to stick around in the past when you've gotten "upset" but I'm not going to do that anymore.

The choice is yours, just know that it is YOUR choice. If you can find a better forum on the Internet I would love to see it.

I would suggest taking a breather and coming back later.
P.S. Don't forget that "ignore" button either.

Carry on,

Kyser

Perhaps because the IN76 is more than a "4805 with a few more options". It's in a different weight category. The IN72 is a 4805 with a few more options.


It's also getting pretty tiresome that a INFS installer is pushing the extended warranty while decrying "trolls and shills".




.

But please. Don't try to sell me on the idea that a 1 year warranty is better than a 3 year warranty or that selling me an extended warranty is actually a benefit to me.



http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060201/1222424.html?.v=2

factor.

Nigel

lets set record straight i have not tried to "sell" you on anything and i am not a "installer" you have reached those conclusions all by your self however i digress i,ll leave it at that... :)

lets set record straight i have not tried to "sell" you on anything and i am not a "installer" you have reached those conclusions all by your self however i digress i,ll leave it at that... :)

My apologies if I implied you were selling something. I should have made that a seperate comment. In any case, I believe you simply stumbled onto a personal hotbutton that was simply pushed once too many times.

More my problem than yours.

Nigel

For those who I had referred a part number or price that only an authorized dealer would know - I apologize - feel free to PM if you did not yet write it down. But you can take the opportunity looking for the info in the thread first to see what the forum would be like if no local installers took time out of their day to help you with your probems - even when they do not sell online and someone else will profit from their help.


Kevin, you know the day I'm not offered an extended warranty when I buy something electronic is a day I'm pretty surprised. While I'll miss much of the information you provide part numbers for extended warranty info isn't likely to be one of them.

Folks like Bob and TzungILin are very much appreciated because they provide an engineering viewpoint for the projectors we buy or are interested in buying. If there's a level of bias its kinda understood because they are proud of the products they have a hand in building and often they themselves don't directly benefit from sales (or lack thereof) beyond a job and perhaps some stock options. Oddly (well not odd really) they don't get emotional about the projectors or brands and stay professional in their interchange.

This isn't always the case with installers and retailers.

"Insider information" is something this forum is always hungry for. Where insiders get into trouble is when they get too partisan in their support of their respective interests. Icon Master, you and some others catch flack for this.

If you don't wish to report on the results of your meet, well that would be a shame. I think, however, that the IN76 will be very popular and there will be quite a reviews available as time goes on. Keeping mum strikes me as cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Nigel

Does anyone know where the Infocus thread has gone? I seem to have lost the IN76 discussion no matter how much I use the search button...

Hummm....(whistle :D whistle)

Help us Obi"BOB"Kenobi your our only hope! :D
Seriously, back to IN76.... Bob what's new? Certainly most on this forum apreciate your input as it is concise and at least as far as I can tell up front and fair.
I would certainly hope we haven't chased you away.... Seriously Bob, thanks. This forum comes alive when you post!

It's also getting pretty tiresome that a INFS installer is pushing the extended warranty while decrying "trolls and shills".

Amusingly, the justification vs the 3 yr Optoma warranty w/no dead pixel policy is that you pay for a warranty instead of ISF calibration (by a ISF tech...one that advertised his services in this very thread with the comment "nobody does reviews like I do" and that his mail in calibrations are "cheaper than in-home calibrations").

But please. Don't try to sell me on the idea that a 1 year warranty is better than a 3 year warranty or that selling me an extended warranty is actually a benefit to me.

Especially don't tell me that a factory warranty from a company posting 28% decline in sales in Q4 of 2005 and $79M in losses in 2005 is that much safer than a store warranty. As a consumer both appear to me as dubious values in comparison to the typical 2nd business day swap warranty that many presentation projectors come with (1 yr swap, 3 yr p&l) as well as the Optoma warranty in question.

Nigel

I fail to see where kras is pushing an extended warranty on anyone. He is simply explaining to you what he believes the reasoning is behind the new Infocus policy. What you decide to do is thoroughly your choice. You are incorrect as to Optoma's warranty, it is 2 years, not 3 and the dead pixel policy from Infocus is unknown at this time.

kras has stated in the "original 4805 thread" on many occasions that calibrating Infocus pj's are not his bread and butter as they are pretty damn good right out of the box and don't really need it and for us to not waste our money. I ask you, "how many other folks who do this for a living would be as honest and upfront about something like that"?

I'll take a professionally done and thorough review from kras any day over one from the likes of Tom (guitarman), a fellow who has never met an Optoma pj he didn't like and openly advocates his own mail in calibration services not to mention the fact he's a person who isn't ISF trained, or Art (presenter) from projectorreviews.com who is another avowed Optoma fan who sells their products from his site or any review from projectorcentral.com who also are pj retailers.

With most other manufacturers, if you want an accurate image, a proper ISF calibration will be needed. That is the one major difference with buying a pj from a company like Optoma rather than one from Infocus. Pay for the extended warranty or pay for the calibration. The choice is yours. I can tell you that the calibration will be the more expensive option.

Naturally we all want the longest possible warranty period for free but that isn't going to happen. Infocus has changed their warranty period and it's up to us if we want to buy a pj from them or not. It's our choice.

As far as the longevity of Infocus as a company is concerned, I feel comfortable enough to believe that they will be around for quite some time. They are one of the top pj manufacturers and have one of the most recognized names in the industry.

What are supposed to do? Bow down and kiss your feet, Kras? Are you gonna take your ball and go home? Gee whiz...and that was our only ball too...shucks. Maybe if you didn't put down new members and act so high and mighty, people might not come down so hard on you. But I guess this whole place will just fall apart without you, eh? Honestly...what are you? 12? "If you don't agree with everything I say, I'm not going to play with you guys anymore!" boo hoo.
You should learn a thing or two from Bob. People like him and thank him and respect his opinion because he is self-less. You, on the other hand, seem to think we all owe you something for your precious time. If it really bugs you so much that people have a problem with the way you deliver your information, then it really is time to move on. I like the information you provide, but not the way you provide it. I can do without the high horse.
Maybe we can actually talk about the IN76 now instead of trying to infer who has the bigger penis.
Peace.
Jon
I agree with you 100% Nigel, thank goodness someone posted what you did. I was getting tired of it too........
[&c]
Fortunately most users these days are too lazy to trim the quoted text in their own postings to the minimum necessary. I guess there's an upside to this.
~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>
Wow, what a novel idea. Maybe they would call it a forum.
A lot of people here dispense valuable information without expecting adoration or even agreement. I am not here to say I don't appreciate your information, but to assume the rest of us don't pitch in other places is a bit of an insult. Good luck finding a place that treats you better than you treat others.

And the rest of us are all so grateful for the vast wealth of knowledge that you four guys have collectively bestowed upon this thread. :rolleyes:


Kevin, you know the day I'm not offered an extended warranty when I buy something electronic is a day I'm pretty surprised. While I'll miss much of the information you provide part numbers for extended warranty info isn't likely to be one of them.

Folks like Bob and TzungILin are very much appreciated because they provide an engineering viewpoint for the projectors we buy or are interested in buying. If there's a level of bias its kinda understood because they are proud of the products they have a hand in building and often they themselves don't directly benefit from sales (or lack thereof) beyond a job and perhaps some stock options. Oddly (well not odd really) they don't get emotional about the projectors or brands and stay professional in their interchange.

This isn't always the case with installers and retailers.

"Insider information" is something this forum is always hungry for. Where insiders get into trouble is when they get too partisan in their support of their respective interests. Icon Master, you and some others catch flack for this.

If you don't wish to report on the results of your meet, well that would be a shame. I think, however, that the IN76 will be very popular and there will be quite a reviews available as time goes on. Keeping mum strikes me as cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Nigel

You may not agree with the new Infocus warranty policy and could care less about buying one, but that doesn't mean that there aren't folks here who are interested in it or what it entails.

Bob is an engineer, I do believe that TzungLin has stated in one of the Optoma threads that he is not. Regardless, why can kras not be just as proud/biased of the products that he services and installs? Bob is not here to defend Infocus, it's not his position in the company to do so, he is simply stating certain aspects of the new line. It's the rest of us who debate the merits of such decisions that the company has made.

As far as kras pulling out of the thread, it's his choice and you know as well as I, most of us will greatly miss his contributions to it. I hope he reconsiders that decision as there are many of us here who value and appreciate what he has to say.

As for you opinion on him keeping mum, if you are refereing to him losing business based upon that decision, I doubt his postings here contribute to even .05% of his revenue and you are missing his point entirely.

I fail to see where kras is pushing an extended warranty on anyone. He is simply explaining to you what he believes the reasoning is behind the new Infocus policy. What you decide to do is thoroughly your choice. You are incorrect as to Optoma's warranty, it is 2 years, not 3 and the dead pixel policy from Infocus is unknown at this time.


You're right. It is 2 years not 3. I guess I'm used to the Sharp presentation warranties since that's what I have. 1 year is what Sharp does with their pricier HT models too. I guess keeping spares for lower volume machines is more costly.

Still 2 years > 1 years and 2 years from Optoma seems moderately anemic to me given I'm used to better.


I'll take a professionally done and thorough review from kras any day over one from the likes of Tom (guitarman), a fellow who has never met an Optoma pj he didn't like and openly advocates his own mail in calibration services not to mention the fact he's a person who isn't ISF trained, or Art (presenter) from projectorreviews.com who is another avowed Optoma fan who sells their products from his site or any review from projectorcentral.com who also are pj retailers.


I prefer reviews by Darin, MrWiggles, LiOn and other enthusiasts. Everyone has a bias but at least they are personal rather than professional.

Guitarman is an odd duck in as much as it appears that Optoma ships him review machines but I don't believe he's more than an enthusiast that got lucky. If he has an official connection with Optoma I'm not aware of it. I did see his post that said he owns a cigar store. No, I wouldn't buy a projector unseen on the basis of his reviews. I might with Darin or Wiggles.

I didn't know that Evan is a dealer. I do not believe that projectorreviews sells projectors other than the google adsense ads. Likewise I've never seen a store portion in PC. I've never used his dealer bid thingy so I dunno how many dealers respond. I've always thought Evan's site was ad supported.

Links to confirm these allegations would be appreciated. But no, while I read and use professional reviews as a data point I often do wonder what the bias might be and why.

As an aside, "likes of Tom"? It is this sort of odd partisanship between the Optoma and Infocus camps that I think is counter productive. I also think it was in large part fueled by the conflict between Kras and Guitarman.


With most other manufacturers, if you want an accurate image, a proper ISF calibration will be needed. That is the one major difference with buying a pj from a company like Optoma rather than one from Infocus. Pay for the extended warranty or pay for the calibration. The choice is yours. I can tell you that the calibration will be the more expensive option.


A $300 ISF calibration on a $2000 projector is an iffy value proposition over Avia. Extended warranties seem to have the same reputation. If the two projectors are comparable price at the end of the day I'll likely pick the INFS because I prefer their general designs as they fit my needs better. Someone who prefers CR might go with the Optoma instead.

You certainly do not need a ISF calibration to get a good picture out of an Optoma which strikes me as the implication (or FUD) of these comparisons.

Nor do you need a 2 year warranty. INFS has made sufficiently robust machines in the past that I'd likely take that gamble of not buying a warranty. Then again, they have a new supply chain. Eh. I'd still likely guess that most failures would occur in the first 90 days.

I'd make sure to watch a lot of movies in that first 90 days though. :)


You may not agree with the new Infocus warranty policy and could care less about buying one, but that doesn't mean that there aren't folks here who are interested in it or what it entails.


That's not what I said. I said that the IN76 is one of the few remaining projectors on my buy list and implied that I believe that whomever eventually sells me a projector will inform me of the benefits of the INFS extended warranty in all its glory. Which I will politely decline.

1 year is dissapointing. Not a deal breaker. If I pass its more likely because of the design choice not to use the full panel.


Bob is an engineer, I do believe that TzungLin has stated in one of the Optoma threads that he is not. Regardless, why can kras not be just as proud/biased of the products that he services and installs?


There's proud. Then there's polarizing the comparison of Optoma and Infocus equipment with terms like "shills" and "trolls". It's unprofessional.


Bob is not here to defend Infocus, it's not his position in the company to do so, he is simply stating certain aspects of the new line. It's the rest of us who debate the merits of such decisions that the company has made.


InFocus doesn't really need defense. I think the only negative sentiment to date is that the HD72 has reached market first and has a very agressive MAP. I suppose you could take the financial condition of INFS as an attack. Its not intended as such...at least not specific to INFS. Just that extended warranties require some due dilligence to determine the true value. Stability of the company is an important factor.


As for you opinion on him keeping mum, if you are refereing to him losing business based upon that decision, I doubt his postings here contribute to even .05% of his revenue and you are missing his point entirely.

The point is that if he wants to be valuable member of this forum then he'd go ahead and post the results of the meet. Not measure that effort against the ROI of the time invested here. Given the sentiment in his final post it seems his help here is more of a marketing vehicle than from the joys of being an enthusiast and sharing his experience.

/shrug.

The value of being helpful will generate some goodwill but will most likely not have a very good ROI in the best of cases.

Wiggles, Darin, et al aren't paid to post here either. Their ROI is zero. Plus they have the benefit of no conflict of interest to have to puzzle through. I can safely take their opinions as just another (much better informed) hobbiest.

If their tastes align with mine (which they seem to) its not as good as seeing for myself but its kinda like having another enthusiast take a potential used car for a test drive for me.

This is more useful to me than having a dealer say "Yeah, this car is great!".

Nigel

I will miss kras's opinions and his contributions in this thread. :(

And the rest of us are all so grateful for the vast wealth of knowledge that you four guys have collectively bestowed upon this thread. :rolleyes:
Thank you.

Get this thread back on topic now or I'll have to shut it down.

Kyser

I'm a bit concerned about the IN76's 768p shadow requiring a blank border around the screen (3" ? ). I dont have the extra room for that size of border.

just wondering what screen options people are considering for this proj, say in a room with complete light control. IF is known for accurate lumen quotes so I don't think a high gain (or high cost) option is necessary.

Kras
Thanks for the clarification.
One more question for you or Bob
Is it mandatory that I buy the unit directly from Infocus
in order to buy the extended warranty and the lamp warranty?

No. The extended warranties have the same requirements as the factory warranty. You only need to buy from an authorized dealer. Also, for those wondering if labor and parts are covered, please see the following web page:

http://www.infocus.com/service/service_offerings/americas.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&prog=extended

I think I can summarize it by saying that the whatever you get in the original factory warranty is extended by the number of years that the extended warranty applies. But please read the statement and don't take my word for it.

I would also like to comment on the quality of the products with the one year warranty. InFocus has not reduced any of the engineering specifications regarding quality due to this new warranty policy. This is really only a measure to get us in line with typical consumer products as home projectors become more mainstream. Again, you have the option of purchasing extensions up to 3 additional years (9 additonal months for the lamp) if you are concerned.

Bob is 3000:1 on/off contrast at 65D real world number or just marketing department exagguration? If I recall corectly IF 4805 stated 2000:1 contrast and achieved only 1400:1 when calibrated.Thanks

placement question... I am deciding between the HD72 and the IN76. I have a room which is about 22ft long, 14ft wide, and 7ft high. Needless to say, the HD72 will be difficult to place for my requirements. I was wondering, I haven't been looking too much in detail about the IN76.. but regarding my room measurements, and I would like to have a 106" - 120" screen, do you think it would be difficult to place this projector in this room?

Bob:

There is huge confusion around your ELW1, ELW2 and ELW3 extended lamp warranties.

Do the 2 and 3 year warranties apply to the SP4805, IN72, IN74EX and IN76 projectors?

The 2 and 3 year warranties state that they apply to 3,000+ hour lamps. Does that mean "3,000 and up" or does it mean "over 3,000"??

The IN72, IN74EX and IN76 spec sheets say 3,000hr lamp.

There are at least four different specs on your web-site for the SP4805. Quote: 160/200-watt SHP, 4000 hour average lifetime 160-watt SHP 3000 hours/200-watt SHP 2000 hours 160 / 200W SHP - 3,000 hours Lamp Wattage: Whisper: 160 Watts; High Bright: 200 Watts
Lamp Life: Whisper: Not Available; High Bright: 3000 Hours

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you Bob! Thanks for not deserting us!
I'm not sure if this question was answered or not to satisfaction or on a factual basis. Can you or someone who knows for sure tell us about how the extended warranty works as far as renewal? Can you buy one year extra and then buy another year if you decide later that you will be keeping it longer before the next upgrade (obviously purchasing another years extended warranty for the second time before the first years extended warranty is up)? Thanks

There is huge confusion around your ELW1, ELW2 and ELW3 extended lamp warranties.

I will ask someone with more knowledge than me about these things and post their response on this subject.

Bob is 3000:1 on/off contrast at 65D real world number or just marketing department exagguration? If I recall corectly IF 4805 stated 2000:1 contrast and achieved only 1400:1 when calibrated.Thanks

With the 4805 you can obtain the specified contrast by setting the color temperature to 7500K, white peaking to 100, and setting the zoom lens to its smallest image size. It was not an exaggeration. For the IN72, IN74, and IN76, the setup is similar to achieve the stated numbers. Each projector does vary to some degree, but these are real world numbers.

As is the case with almost every manufacturer on earth, however, the stated numbers are the maximum typically obtainable. I still believe that we are closer than most to the specified numbers, but they do not reflect how I would set up the projector in an ideal situation.

I still believe that we are closer than most to the specified numbers, but they do not reflect how I would set up the projector in an ideal situation.

Fair enough :p

This is going to be a fine unit for Infocus. Cool looks, great picture, and Whisper quiet.

It compared favorably to a 777 in an informal A/B. A little more digital looking picture. but other than that, it showed what great price vs. performance this little unit has.

Did I mention it looks cool?

Can anyone confirm the image offset for the IN76? Never mind, I found it, 16%.

Can anyone confirm the image offset for the IN76?15.59%

The offsets for the new projectors were posted earlier in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6901571&&#post6901571).

Does anyone know if IN76 will turn the Fan completely off when you turn it off from the remote?

do you think it would be difficult to place this projector in this room?

No offense, but I believe a calculator was provided earlier in this thread. Shouldn't you run the numbers first before asking others? Also hard for others to answer - do you care if the PJ is mounted 1/2 way in the room?

Does anyone know if IN76 will turn the Fan completely off when you turn it off from the remote?

Yes, this was covered earlier in the thread I believe.

...I have take upon myself to delete all of my posts in this thread.

Well, that certainly makes my job a bit more difficult since Krasmuzik answered, correctly I might add, a good portion of the questions asked in this thread. I have certainly appreciated his posts here tremendously since my job does not allow me to dwell here as long as I would like at times. I seriously think he has always been on the side of getting the information out, good or bad, about the products he is familiar with.

As far as biases are concerned, you can count me as probably the most biased person posting here. Please weigh that in whenever you read a post I write.

I realize you do not frequent this thread daily so
I am hoping you see this post and respond.
Within your obligations to IF on non disclosure
can you comment on the chance of us seeing a
native 2.35:1 FP from IF some day?
Also for what it is worth I agree with your
comments on Krasmuzik and also find
your responses surprisingly unbiased
considering you work for Infocus
T.I.A.

I'm not aware of any 2.35:1 ratio DLP chips from TI. Even Digital Projection cinemas with DLP use an anamorphic lens for 2.35 movies.

Bob:

There is huge confusion around your ELW1, ELW2 and ELW3 extended lamp warranties.

Do the 2 and 3 year warranties apply to the SP4805, IN72, IN74EX and IN76 projectors?


While not entirely definative for the upcoming products a simple click on the INFS store site neatly indicates that you can purchase the ELW2 and ELW3 for the 4805 but these two items do not appear for the SP5000 (with lower life bulb). It does appear for the IN72 and IN76.

Relevant INFS part numbers are available from the store.

Extended Parts and Labor Warranty numbers for 1 year, 2 year and 3 year are EPW1, EPW2, and EPW3 respectively.

Priority Exchange numbers for 1 year, 2 year and 3 years are PE1, PE2 and PE3.

Extended lamp warranties for 1 year, 2 year and 3 years are ELW1, ELW2 and ELW3.

Availablility of the lamp warranties are listed as "Temporarily on backorder" as is the 4805 (which is the only projector I added to my shopping cart).

Has anyone tried the Trade-Up Program?

Nigel

Within your obligations to IF on non disclosure can you comment on the chance of us seeing a native 2.35:1 FP from IF some day?

Right now I think the demand for such a projector would be low. 16:9 is just taking off in the consumer space, and I think it is a good middle approach to accomodating both 4:3 and 2.35:1 content since the black area onscreen is equal for both of these aspect ratios. Once 4:3 goes away we are much more likely to see wider aspect ratio displays appear.

Thanks for your thoughts Bob and I agree that
most consumers still consider 16:9 the latest
and best thing since 4:3 along with being the
standard for HD.I also think it makes perfect sense
for IF to cater to the masses and offer 16:9 FP's
in the lower price range for the average Joe,first
time FPer.I was the same way but it took me
about one week after watching most of my favorite
DVD,s to wonder why someone hasn't asked TI
to produce a 2.35:1 dmd.
Now with some people ready to plunk down 8-10K
for a FP I think a native 2.35:1 would have a viable market
say around 5k.I guess on further thought the big obstacle
is that TI has a monopoly on this technology and is
focused on meeting demand for the average consumer
as this is where the profit is and untill it has more
competition will not fill this niche.Sorry this went off topic
and thanks again.

Bob, in your opinion how does the IN76 compare to the SP7200?

the INFS store site neatly indicates that you can purchase the ELW2 and ELW3 for the 4805InFocus customer support confirmed by telephone today that, contrary to the ambiguous fine print, all three extended lamp warranties are available for the 4805 and the new units.

(My dealer is upgrading my 1-year to the 3-year warranty - I don't know if that's generally available, but he arranged it for me ;) )

While I was at it, for those that are concerned, InFocus technical support also says that they have never denied a claim for a dead-pixel !!

Dead pixels are really rare with DLP, which is we don't see many dead pixel policies from DLP manufacturers. TI has a very strict quality control and usually throw out any chip that has dead pixels before sending them to display manufacturers AFAIK. I have one of these bad chips sitting on my desk (hey, it looks cool, see photo gallery). :)

Bob,

How does the scaler in the IN76 (Pixelworks?) compare to DCDI for SD material:

1) equal or better than the 4805?

2) or is the scaler in the IN76 focused more at doing a great job with 1080i than SD?

Well it looks like the IN76 street price is going for full retail value confirmed from one of the sponsors on the board. I really don't understand the pricing on this as the direct competitors (Optoma & Mits) are well below the IN76. With an older DMD controller and no BC to boot.

Don't get me wrong though, I prefer this to the other two brands and wishing it would street near the other two......I guess I will have to live with keystone correction as this puts the Infocus out of reach........

I really hope that is not true. Sure doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe when it's out, they'll give you a different number. Or maybe one of the other vendors of this forum will be able to be more flexible. Don't forget that AVS will be selling this unit as well. I hate all this waiting!

Well it looks like the IN76 street price is going for full retail value confirmed from one of the sponsors on the board.

I believe that is how the 4805 was first released as well but IF cut the price later. I think they will again particularly if there is buyer resistance at MAP. Let's encourage them by not being early adopters.

Well it looks like the IN76 street price is going for full retail value confirmed from one of the sponsors on the board.
When the 4805 first came out there was an AVS sponsor that was offering a discount of around 13% off of MAP, but you had to call them and identify yourself as an AVS member. At the time the 4805 was in short supply and high demand, so don't give up hope on an initial discount for the IN76 yet. I would expect that a cheap projector like the 4805 would have less profit dollars built in, so a larger discount may be possible with the IN76.

If you can wait a month or two for more units to become available, discounting may be more likely.

Kinda funny but today my co-worker just received his HD72 today. He decided to give it to me as his setup won't be ready for another few weeks (moving to another place). I'll see if keystoning makes a noticeable difference and if it doesnt then its a keeper. Projectorreviews.com just reviewed it and it looks very, very good.

Well I really think Infocus should really focus on being competitive. There is no way I'd pay a 33% more for a 5% improvement over the Optoma. I'm not bashing Infocus though.....just don't think I can wait the extra few months for the prices to come down........

The MAP on the Optoma HD72 is VERY aggressive - no two ways about it! My thinking is that they weren't so much going after the other low cost DLP units so much as the 720p LCD units like the Panny AE900 and Sanyo Z4.

With Optoma and BenQ (especially) having dim bulb and heat issues in several units as well as more tweaking needed out of the box to get an accurate picture, I'd say, in the long run, the cost of ownership of the Infocus units is lower, even if the initial price is higher!

One concern I have and maybe Bob could answer this?

Much of the dim bulb and heat issues of the Optoma and BenQ units seems to come from trying to make them so quiet. Infocus, by and large, has had louder projectors, but they haven't been known to have fast dimming bulbs or heat issues. But now, the new lineup is supposed to be much more quiet. I'm just wondering has bulb life been adversely effected in any way due to engineering a quieter design?

I've stayed away from the BenQ PE7700 and now am shy of the Optoma H78DC3 as well because of poor bulb life and heat issues. Even though it clearly isn't every BenQ or Optoma projector that is having problems, it shouldn't be hit or miss either when it comes to buying. I don't want to have to hope that I get a "good" unit if I buy a projector. I want a projector from a company that engineers their products properly so that these issues don't arise in the first place!

Anyways, I hope Infocus has managed to make the IN76 quieter while still retaining cool operating tempertures and the longer bulb life that goes with it.

Jon

Ok, so I've read every post in this thread as I did 2 years ago with the 4805. But it still cracks me up that folks get so passionate and philosophical about price speculation. Like 1/2 of 1/2 of 1% of the purchasing population really cares what the MSRP at product launch will be. Like all electronics, wait 4-6 months when yields are up, the channels are full and the rave reviews are out and THEN see what the price differential versus the performance differential is. Like has been said before, its easy to lower the price but almost impossible to raise it.

Folks, relax. Unless you absolutely have to have one of the first production run units, you shouldn't care what pricing MIGHT be. And if you are one of those who does have to have one of the first units, you are always willing to pay a premium price. :)

There is huge confusion around your ELW1, ELW2 and ELW3 extended lamp warranties. Do the 2 and 3 year warranties apply to the SP4805, IN72, IN74EX and IN76 projectors?

Yes, they do. They also apply to the X1a, X2, and X3 projectors.

The 2 and 3 year warranties state that they apply to 3,000+ hour lamps. Does that mean "3,000 and up" or does it mean "over 3,000"??

The 2 and 3 year warranties apply for all projectors with lamp life of 3,000 hours or greater in all power modes. They do not apply to products with, for instance, 3,000 hours in low power mode but only 2,000 in high power mode. This is because we cannot track how the lamp is being used.

One concern I have and maybe Bob could answer this?

Much of the dim bulb and heat issues of the Optoma and BenQ units seems to come from trying to make them so quiet. Infocus, by and large, has had louder projectors, but they haven't been known to have fast dimming bulbs or heat issues. But now, the new lineup is supposed to be much more quiet. I'm just wondering has bulb life been adversely effected in any way due to engineering a quieter design?

No. So far all of our data shows that the lamp life is at least equal to and probably better than the SP4805. We did not compromise cooling of the lamp in any way.

One of the reasons the case is larger than that of the SP4805 is to better isolate the noise form the lamp cooling.

How does the scaler in the IN76 (Pixelworks?) compare to DCDI for SD material:

1) equal or better than the 4805?

2) or is the scaler in the IN76 focused more at doing a great job with 1080i than SD?

I believe the DNX scaler does a better job at retaining detail without significant artifacts than the DCDi scaler does.

That's really interesting Bob. I've never heard of DNX, can you tell us a little bit about the company?

That would be Pixelworks. DNX is their trademark.

http://www.pixelworks.com/

Bob, in your opinion how does the IN76 compare to the SP7200?

In my opinion the IN76 is better than the SP7200 in nearly every way. The only real advantages of the SP7200 are the ones involving installation flexibility (IR input, 8 available component inputs, 2 screen triggers, etc.) and a slightly more saturated green color point. The bottom line is if both projectors were available to me at the same price point I would choose the IN76.

Bob, can you similarly give your opinion on the IN76 vs. 7205? I have the opportunity to jump on a used 7205 with low hours, and was wondering if I should wait for the IN76 instead. Thanks!

Ok, so I've read every post in this thread as I did 2 years ago with the 4805. But it still cracks me up that folks get so passionate and philosophical about price speculation. Like 1/2 of 1/2 of 1% of the purchasing population really cares what the MSRP at product launch will be. Like all electronics, wait 4-6 months when yields are up, the channels are full and the rave reviews are out and THEN see what the price differential versus the performance differential is. Like has been said before, its easy to lower the price but almost impossible to raise it.

Folks, relax. Unless you absolutely have to have one of the first production run units, you shouldn't care what pricing MIGHT be. And if you are one of those who does have to have one of the first units, you are always willing to pay a premium price. :)

I think a few folks are delaying purchase to get one of the new crop based on the new DMD. Given that the HC3K and the HD72 have rather large offsets there is a small bit of pent up demand within this forum for the IN76, AN110 and Z3000.

Which is a good thing for INFS but also why folks are interested in launch MAP/MSRP. A $1000 differential is 50 DVDs or 100 months of Netflix...

If AVS does a powerbuy I'd likely be interested and that would be based on launch price, no? Hence the relevance and interest.

Nigel

Bob, can you similarly give your opinion on the IN76 vs. 7205? I have the opportunity to jump on a used 7205 with low hours, and was wondering if I should wait for the IN76 instead. Thanks!
That one is tougher. The SP7205 has a DarkChip 2 DLP chip similar to the IN76, but it also has a 7-segment wheel which means that there will be fewer dithering artifacts. So from a DLP picture quality standpoint I think that the SP7205 wins even though the contrast is a little lower. However, the platform has louder acoustic noise, lacks 1080i advanced deinterlacing (the Faroudja chip will only do "bob" deinterlacing for 1080i), and does not have the very latest connectivity option of HDMI (although with an adapter you get most of HDMI's capability). Your choice will depend on which of these things are important to you.

In my opinion the IN76 is better than the SP7200 in nearly every way. The only real advantages of the SP7200 are the ones involving installation flexibility (IR input, 8 available component inputs, 2 screen triggers, etc.) and a slightly more saturated green color point. The bottom line is if both projectors were available to me at the same price point I would choose the IN76.
Bob, I thank you for your reply. Reading your last post then you would still choose the 7205 over the 76? Even though both have the same chip can you tell us which one has a better black level?

That one is tougher. The SP7205 has a DarkChip 2 DLP chip similar to the IN76, but it also has a 7-segment wheel which means that there will be fewer dithering artifacts. So from a DLP picture quality standpoint I think that the SP7205 wins even though the contrast is a little lower. However, the platform has louder acoustic noise, lacks 1080i advanced deinterlacing (the Faroudja chip will only do "bob" deinterlacing for 1080i), and does not have the very latest connectivity option of HDMI (although with an adapter you get most of HDMI's capability). Your choice will depend on which of these things are important to you.

Thanks Bob! That is very helpful.

If AVS does a powerbuy I'd likely be interested and that would be based on launch price, no? Hence the relevance and interest.


What exactly does this comment mean? Has AVS done powerbuys in the past or something like commitments to orders/preorders for price reductions?

Good info. Bob. Appreciate the comparisons....helps give some perspective on things

Bob, I thank you for your reply. Reading your last post then you would still choose the 7205 over the 76? Even though both have the same chip can you tell us which one has a better black level?

Earlier I asked Bob about comparing the black level in the 4805 to the IN76 because it is also a Darkchip 2 and his reply was that the black levels were about the same, but should appear better on the IN76 because of the improved contrast.

I don't know the specs on the 7205, but if it's contrast is similar to the IN76, I'd say that the black levels would be the same.

What exactly does this comment mean? Has AVS done powerbuys in the past or something like commitments to orders/preorders for price reductions?



Yes, AVS has done Powerbuys in the past where they've bought products in bulk and passed the saving onto its members. I bought my screen this way and received a good deal from here.

Bob Williams, thank you for contributing to this thread and providing such frank answers to our questions.

We are about 3-4 weeks away from completion of our home theater construction. If the IN76 was available now, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I might even look at an empty screen for a few weeks after that. But not for a few months - the family pressure to show something will be intense after all the expense of building the room.

I don't know if you are able to answer this but I'll ask anyway.... Is there a good chance that the IN76 will be available by April 15? That's about the limit that we are able to wait. I'll stop looking at other products right now if the answer is yes.

Thanks.

The SP7205 has a DarkChip 2 DLP chip similar to the IN76, but it also has a 7-segment wheel which means that there will be fewer dithering artifacts.

Eww...dithering :p I must say, for whatever reason, I seem very prone to being bothered by dithering. Rainbows have never been much of a problem for me, but dithering really bugs me for some reason. Still, the IN76 is easily the most promising projector for me at the moment. I am VERY glad to hear that the IN76 will still run cool and have the good lamp life that Infocus is known for. Sure, I might save $1000 up front on a BenQ 7700, but if I have to buy a new bulb every 400 hours or ship it to BenQ for repairs more than once, that ends up costing more than the initial price difference, plus, I'd be without a projector whenever the bulb blows or I have to send it in for servicing! Not to mention that I'd always be afraid that the bulb was suddenly going to go or that it was just going to be really dim after only 300-400 hours of use. A little piece of mind about the lamp life and performance is well worth the initial higher price IMO!

Thanks to Bob yet again! (I wonder if he ever gets tired of hearing "thanks"...nah :p )


Oh, and from what I've heard in this thread and elsewhere online, the IN76 line is supposedly going to have first shipments in March. It should be out by April 15, but delays are always possible of course.

Jon

The 2 and 3 year warranties apply for all projectors with lamp life of 3,000 hours or greater in all power modes.

Which apparently includes the IN72. :-)

My question is: can the warranties be purchased directly from InFocus to cover a purchase made from a local dealer who doesn't sel the warranties?

(Presumably one would have to buy them within 90 days of the purchase or ship date on the projector.)

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

My question is: can the warranties be purchased directly from InFocus to cover a purchase made from a local dealer who doesn't sel the warranties?For the extended warranties to be valid, you must have an existing valid warranty. If you bought a projector from a grey market dealer, you may not have an original warranty to start with.

But, yes, if you are in the United States, you can buy the extended warranties directly from the Infocus web-site (http://store.infocus.com/escalate/store/CategoryPage?pls=infocus&bc=infocus&cc=Extended+Warranties&clist=017080322b7d&ret=Extended+Warranties&startNum=0&rangeNum=10).

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but Visualapex is preselling the 76 for an expected delivery of mid March. The bad news is that they are selling at the MSRP price of $2999.

Is there a good chance that the IN76 will be available by April 15? That's about the limit that we are able to wait. I'll stop looking at other products right now if the answer is yes.
Yes, there's a very good chance. But I still suggest researching as many products as possible since this is a big expense and you'll likely make the best choice when presented with the most information.

Yes, there's a very good chance. But I still suggest researching as many products as possible since this is a big expense and you'll likely make the best choice when presented with the most information.


You show nothing but class, Bob. Thank you for that kind of feedback. :cool:

Yeesch! I'm exhausted! I just went through 23 pages of InFocus discussion, commentary, debate, facts, fears, opinions and rants! :eek:

Bottom line - I will probably be one of the earliest IN76 buyers. Now I need to sell my IF5700 with about 1000 hours on the bulb and 2 months of warranty left. Oh, and I have to figure out where to buy it from...

For the extended warranties to be valid, you must have an existing valid warranty. If you bought a projector from a grey market dealer, you may not have an original warranty to start with. But, yes, if you are in the United States, you can buy the extended warranties directly from the Infocus web-site (http://store.infocus.com/escalate/store/CategoryPage?pls=infocus&bc=infocus&cc=Extended+Warranties&clist=017080322b7d&ret=Extended+Warranties&startNum=0&rangeNum=10).

What isn't clear to me from the InFocus web site is whether you have to buy the extended warranty at the time of initial purchase, on the same invoice, or from the same dealer. If the actual text of the warranty is on their site, I can't find it--and I'd really like to read the fine print to see what actually is and isn't covered. (For example, do I have to send my projector to them to file a claim, or will they just send me the lamp?) The best I can find is this, but it's only one paragraph long and I can't believe that InFocus has its lawyers under that much control.

http://www.infocus.com/service/service_offerings/americas.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&prog=lamp

I got my last projector from Mike at Surf Audio Video, who AFAIK is an authorized dealer, but right now he sells the Warrantech extended warranty. Since my friend had a nightmarish experience trying to get them to fix his PowerBook G4, I'm strongly inclined not to trust them. (Of course when he gets the new projectors he might well start selling the warranties.)

I'm amused that the 3-year warranty is "temporarily on backorder". Has their laserprinter run out of toner again? :D

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

I know this has been said a million times on this thread but I will say it again. I can't believe infocus is going to sell this thing at $3000. Are they crazy. :eek: You can get a optoma h78 for about the same price and the Optoma will clearly still be better. I was hoping to get the IN76 based on the better offset for my setup but for a $1000 premium I will just get the Optoma h78 :(

What isn't clear to me from the InFocus web site is whether you have to buy the extended warranty at the time of initial purchase, on the same invoice, or from the same dealer.You can buy the warranty from InFocus or any dealer, regardless of whether you bought your projector/lamp there or not.

BUT your original warranty must be valid and in effect when you do; that means within 90days/500hrs for the lamp and within 2-years for the projector (90days for refurbs). Call InFocus Customer Service and ask them what your warranty status is.

Bob Williams has explained in the past that the warranties are simple extensions of your existing warranty - look to them for the details of what is or is not covered.

I know this has been said a million times on this thread but I will say it again. I can't believe infocus is going to sell this thing at $3000. Are they crazy. :eek: You can get a optoma h78 for about the same price and the Optoma will clearly still be better. I was hoping to get the IN76 based on the better offset for my setup but for a $1000 premium I will just get the Optoma h78 :(

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-H78DC3-user-reviews.htm

Doesn't the Optoma H78 list for $6,999? Isn't that something like 134% greater than the list price of the IN76?

If you're talking street prices - don't you have to wait until the new IN76 starts shipping and see where street prices settle based on market factors?

$3K list for a 720p DLP projector from a respected company like InFocus is a pretty good deal IMO. What did a 720p DLP PJ list for 12 or 24 months ago?

Mit07 is right. I really am sick of the really STUPID expectations that some people have. Almost as though IF and other companies *owe* you a projector. In fact, I'm thinking some of you would bitch about a free PJ because it's not good enough. If it had a 10K:1 contrast, you'd bitch about it not being 20K:1. If it were $10, you'd bitch that it wasn't $5. It's really amazingly juvenile and annoying to see. If you don't like the product, buy something else. But whatever you do, just shut up. And I could say that a million times if that's what it takes. Sheesh. Spoiled brats.

just shut up.Amen.

Guys.... keep the insults out of this thread please.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Disagree with them and debate all you like, just keep the direct insults out of it.

Thanks,

Kyser


BTW, thanks Bob for all of your help in this thread, it is appreciated by many.

The projection calculator that Bob Williams posted earlier in this thread is no longer there

( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=49744 )

Can someone post this again please.

I believe indicates an image offset of ~15% for the IN76. I'm not sure that I understand what this means. Does it mean that, for example, if the projector lens is 10 ft from the screen then the top of the image will be 18" below the lens? Or does it mean that if the image is 50" high, then the top of the image will be 7.5" below the lens.

As we are working through the room construction, I'm having to lower the ceiling more than I would have liked, so image offset is becoming a major consideration.

Thanks.

The projection calculator that Bob Williams posted earlier in this thread is no longer there

( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=49744 )

Can someone post this again please.

I believe indicates an image offset of ~15% for the IN76. I'm not sure that I understand what this means. Does it mean that, for example, if the projector lens is 10 ft from the screen then the top of the image will be 18" below the lens? Or does it mean that if the image is 50" high, then the top of the image will be 7.5" below the lens.

As we are working through the room construction, I'm having to lower the ceiling more than I would have liked, so image offset is becoming a major consideration.

Thanks.

Simply go to the InFocus webpage for information. Here is the link - go to the Support tab - How to Guides - Setup - Calculating Image Offset. They provide a great explanation with drawings.

http://www.infocus.com/Products/Projectors/IN76.aspx

Thanks Mit07!! That is exactly what I was looking for.

does it mean that if the image is 50" high, then the top of the image will be 7.5" below the lensThe short answer is YES. The accurate answer is it will be 7.795" (15.59%)

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-H78DC3-user-reviews.htm

Doesn't the Optoma H78 list for $6,999? Isn't that something like 134% greater than the list price of the IN76?

If you're talking street prices - don't you have to wait until the new IN76 starts shipping and see where street prices settle based on market factors?

$3K list for a 720p DLP projector from a respected company like InFocus is a pretty good deal IMO. What did a 720p DLP PJ list for 12 or 24 months ago?


List price vs. list price the Infocus is the better deal by far. Street to street it is still probably the better deal because Infocus has a great reputation of not needing to be tweaked out of the box to get it to look great. so for many people that are not constant tweakers and/or calibrators the IF is a much better machine to own. you just need to know how much your time is worth

I have seen the new IN76 in action and it is a great PJ. It is definitely one that I would recommend to any non AVS friends of mine that know nothing of calibration DVD's or any other videophile stuff.

I have seen the new IN76 in action and it is a great PJ. It is definitely one that I would recommend to any non AVS friends of mine that know nothing of calibration DVD's or any other videophile stuff.


OOH! Details please! :D

How are the black levels?
Shadow detail?

DITHERING!? (this one is important to me :p )

Brightness?
Colour?

And please mention any comparisons you could make to other projectors like the AE900, Z4, HD72, PE7700, etc.

I've no doubt this will be a good projector, but I'd love to know if it easily bests the LCD competition like the AE900 and Z4. I don't expect it to match the H78DC3, but I'd love to know how it competes with the other projectors in its price category.

Thanks,
Jon

OOH! Details please! :D

How are the black levels?
Shadow detail?

DITHERING!? (this one is important to me :p )

Brightness?
Colour?

And please mention any comparisons you could make to other projectors like the AE900, Z4, HD72, PE7700, etc.

I've no doubt this will be a good projector, but I'd love to know if it easily bests the LCD competition like the AE900 and Z4. I don't expect it to match the H78DC3, but I'd love to know how it competes with the other projectors in its price category.

Thanks,
Jon

I did not see it in an environment that allowed hyper critical viewing. but it fared well against an Infocus 777. Not quite as bright and a little more digital looking but the colors were right there and It was quite a bit brighter than my 4805. It was also nearly silent and did not have any unpleasant video artifacts that anyone at the Portland AVS meet noticed. I think the best comparison would be to a 7205 but not quite as good as a 7210.

I have not seen the AE900 or Z4 but I have seen their predecessors, and I am sure the IN76 would do well compared against either of these units.

very interesting Krawdad, what type/size screen was being used?

I was at the meet Krawdad attended and wanted to echo the comments. Screen was about 10 feet wide, wouldn't you say?

Silent! Really bright -- I think that's the biggest recommendation of the unit. I was REALLY impressed with the demo.

We had a 777, 76, and 72 all running and switched between them. That was great, wasn't it?

:)

I was at the meet Krawdad attended and wanted to echo the comments. Screen was about 10 feet wide, wouldn't you say?

Silent! Really bright -- I think that's the biggest recommendation of the unit. I was REALLY impressed with the demo.

We had a 777, 76, and 72 all running and switched between them. That was great, wasn't it?

:)

Yeah the screen was 10' wide but we only filled about 75% of it. The screen was a Da-Lite. not sure what gain. I am sure it was probably higher than 1 as it was being used by a CRT before the 777 was installed. I was impressed with all the Projectors that were shown. and I really like the new Play big design.

What amazed me was how little difference there really is between 480P and 720P until you get up close. But as Kras and Tibia pointed out the higher fill ratio of the 720 gave the picture more pop. and they were right. and the IN72 is not quite as bright as the IN76. The IN72 much like the 4805 is a 2 screen widths seating distance PJ. Where the IN76 you could be 1.5x or less. Then the 3 chip 777 took it a step further being even brighter than the IN76 with very little visible gap between pixels that gave a more film like quality to the picture.

Too bad someone did not bring a '360(hint hint). That would have been really fun.

EDIT: Insulting comment removed!
Kyser

Certainly many thanks for your impressions so far! :D

I'd say if the IN76 gets very close to 7205 performance, then that is one heck of a deal! Just a short 1 and a half years ago, we'd be paying anywhere from twice to three times as much for that kind of image. Very impressive (and a little frightening) to see price for performance drop so quickly!

There's no way I'd expect DC3 type performance, but to get close to or even equal 7205 performance is EXACTLY the type of thing I wanted to hear :D I'd certainly take a 7205 over the AE900 or Z4 (setup flexibility not withstanding - clearly the LCD units have a huge advantage in placement flexibility over the fixed lens DLP units :p ) so if the IN76 is at that level this is one sweet unit to be sure!

It's too bad the viewing environment wasn't really up to critical viewing standards, but you can usually tell pretty quickly whether a projector is any good or not :p

Anyways...please keep the impressions coming! This seems like it could certainly be a winning unit for Infocus!

Jon

EDIT: Insulting comment removed!
Kyser


There's no way I'd expect DC3 type performance, but to get close to or even equal 7205 performance is EXACTLY the type of thing I wanted to hear :D I'd certainly take a 7205 over the AE900 or Z4 (setup flexibility not withstanding - clearly the LCD units have a huge advantage in placement flexibility over the fixed lens DLP units :p ) so if the IN76 is at that level this is one sweet unit to be sure!

Jon

Please see post #661 for Bob Williams' thoughts on the IN76 versus 7205.

What amazed me was how little difference there really is between 480P and 720P until you get up close.

Yes, there is little difference between 480p and 720p if you sit far enough back. The problem being that sitting too far back and you into the realm of large TV rather than small cinema.

The brightness limitation of the IN72 vs IN76 shouldn't be as big an issue as you tend to project onto a smaller screen with the IN72 than the IN76 (based on ancedotal comments by 4805 vs 72xx owners). There is a study somewhere that describes the relationship of seating preference, brightness and screen size. The larger the screen size the closer (in terms of screen height) liked to sit. The smaller the farther away folks like to sit and the brighter they preferred the image (good thing inverse square law helps rather than hurts).

http://www.tid.es/documentos/boletin/numero6_4.pdf

Nothing new except confirmation that as screen sizes increase you end up being closer to the screen (either by preference or by physical layout limitations) and will desire more resolution.

"people choose viewing distances not based on percieved quality of the imate but a desire 'to optimize a sense of presence or reality"

http://www.wilcoxlab.yorku.ca/PresencePapers/Lombardetal1997.pdf (pg 98)

Bottom line: If you can fit a bigger screen your HT will be more immersive and you'll want to sit closer. If you can afford the price difference the IN76 will always be superior to the IN72 in this regard as you'll end up with better resolution (and fill) at these distances.

Nigel

I'm in the market for a 720p native projector. I've found the SP5000 at a pretty decent price, especially after rebate. Would it be smart to buy now, or wait until "Q1 2006" when infocus releases the newer models? When exactly are they releasing these models?

Also, does anyone know if using a coupon on Infocus's site would invalidate a rebate from them?

Sorry if these questions may have already been answered in the other 24 pages of the thread.

Crutchfield is showing est delivery date as 3/31, take that for whatever its worth.

I'm in the market for a 720p native projector. I've found the SP5000 at a pretty decent price, especially after rebate. Would it be smart to buy now, or wait until "Q1 2006" when infocus releases the newer models? When exactly are they releasing these models?

Also, does anyone know if using a coupon on Infocus's site would invalidate a rebate from them?

Sorry if these questions may have already been answered in the other 24 pages of the thread.

As long as you don't mind spending the extra dough on the new model, definately wait 6 weeks or so...

Bob,

another question....

I am planning on driving the IN76 (through the HDMI input) with a lumagen VisionHDP.

The question is ... If I input the signal in native 1280 X720 can the IN76 display the picture with NO resizing? Aka. can the IN76 display in "pixel perfect" or "one to one" mode?

Many thanks...and I echo all the kudos for your participation in this forum. Most helpful and appreciated.

Bob,

also what is your opinion regarding which input on the IN76 I should be using?

The Lumagen outputs DVI, which is what I am planning on using. Also I have a run of about 25 feet.

The Infocus website indicates that the IN76 has three digital inputs....DVI, M1, and HDMI. For the best performance which of the three inputs should I plan on using?

My initial thinking is to use HDMI because on the Infocus web specs the HDMI input as the only one that lists it is HDCP supported.

Interesting, the new line of InFocus projectors is a few weeks away from shipping and this thread was removed from the Sticky section? :(

It shouldn't have been stickied in the first place, since none of the new models is shipping yet.

It shouldn't have been stickied in the first place, since none of the new models is shipping yet.

ditto.

& i'm sure once the In72 & IN76 ship, they will have official threads of their own.

It shouldn't have been stickied in the first place, since none of the new models is shipping yet.
ditto.

& i'm sure once the In72 & IN76 ship, they will have official threads of their own.
Well then you guys better tell 'em over in the > $3500 thread to remove the Optoma HD81 sticky too, 'cause that ain't shipping yet either. ;)

I think the sticky was removed because the volume of posts was down. I'd like to see it continue as a sticky, but no big deal IMO.

How difficult will it be to setup this projector? Is there a lens shift? What is the zoom focus?

I was interested in the Optima H72, but it would not work in my basement. Thanks!

It shouldn't have been stickied in the first place, since none of the new models is shipping yet.

Lot's of good info on this thread from Bob Williams at InFocus... I think it should stay sticky. Maybe there should be individual IN72 and IN76 threads at some point, but the conversation hasn't split yet, so that is just speculation at this point.

Other projectors regularly get stickies before shipping - I want my sticky back!! :( The alternative is waiting to see what new thread might be started and we all randomly decide to contribute to it enough that it gets sticky... or (hopefully) the moderators will quickly take command, start a IN72 and a IN76 'official' thread, stick the Bob Williams info in there and make them sticky...

Mike

Lot's of good info on this thread from Bob Williams at InFocus... I think it should stay sticky. Maybe there should be individual IN72 and IN76 threads at some point, but the conversation hasn't split yet, so that is just speculation at this point.

Other projectors regularly get stickies before shipping - I want my sticky back!! :( The alternative is waiting to see what new thread might be started and we all randomly decide to contribute to it enough that it gets sticky... or (hopefully) the moderators will quickly take command, start a IN72 and a IN76 'official' thread, stick the Bob Williams info in there and make them sticky...

Mike

...and later this year AVS can start the "Digital Projectors Under $500 USD MSRP" when InFocus releases their new 'gaming' projector. :D

From Hidden Wires (UK) (http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesnews2006/news20060302-06.html):

CSE Shows New Products at Bristol Sound & Vision (2/3/2006)

InFocus IN76 Dark Chip 2 - 16:9 - 720p DLP Projector. DVi and HDMI Inputs

With the advent of Sky HD, Blue Ray, HD DVD the IN76 High Definition DLP(TM) projector is ideally placed to fully exploit these exciting new formats.

Central to the IN76 design is a new DarkChip2 720p 16:9 DMD panel from Texas Instruments¨. Its true 1280 x 720 HD resolution precisely matches the output all HD devices. This panel when combined with the IN76's Pixelworks(TM) DNX(TM) 10-bit video processing, is capable of retrieving maximum information from the both standard and high definition material, up to and including 1080p.

The auto-calibrating six-segment colour wheel and newly designed optical assembly allows the IN76 to achieve an incredible 3000:1 video-based contrast ratio, while the video-optimised 1000 ANSI lumen output ensures that image detailing, contrast range and black level are of the highest order.

Every InFocus IN76 is calibrated to a 65K colour point providing the most accurate colour reproduction of broadcast and disc-based formats. Little, if any, adjustment is required. All standard and high definition video formats are supported including 1080p. With two digital video inputs, the IN76 will allow the simultaneous connection of Sky HD and a DVI / HDMI equipped DVD player. S-video, component video and composite video are also supported, while source components with a Scart output, such as Sky or FreeView, can be connected via the optional adapter.

I nspired by the ScreenPlay 777, the IN76 chassis is a radical departure from its predecessor. But stunning aesthetics are only part of this change. The re-designed optical assembly and ventilation system lowers both operating temperature and noise levels. For table-top mounting, a unique "mono" foot with ball joint allows the IN76 to be quickly and precisely adjusted to the required position. For ceiling mounting simply remove the foot and attach the optional bracket; the image will be automatically adjusted when the projector is inverted.

Finally for ease of operation and installation, the IN76 provides multiple video presets, 12V screen trigger, RS232 operation, and direct IR control. For now and the future, the IN76 is capable of generating large scale high definition images of incredible detail and impact.

Guide retail price : £1699 (1 x Unit)

InFocus IN72 Dark Chip 2 - 16:9 - 480p DLP Projector. DVi and HDMI Inputs

Having established an enviable reputation in the design and manufacture of home theatre projectors, InFocus is set to raise the bar again with its IN7X 'Play Big' range. The IN72 is the entry level projector from the range. At its heart is the exceptional DarkChip2 480p 16:9 DMD panel from Texas Instruments, which when combined with the IN72's Pixelworks'(TM) DNX(TM) 10-bit video processing, is capable of extracting the maximum information from the both standard and high definition material - all the way up to 1080p. A six-segment colour wheel and newly designed optics allow the IN72 to achieve a 2000:1 contrast ratio, while a video-optimised 900 ANSI lumen output ensures both exceptional contrast range and overall black level.

Each InFocus IN72 is calibrated to a 65K colour point providing the most accurate colour reproduction of broadcast and disc-based formats straight from the box. Little, if any, adjustment is required.

All standard and high definition video formats are supported including 1080p. With two digital video inputs (HDMI and DVI), the IN72 will allow the simultaneous connection of Sky HD and a DVI/HDMI equipped DVD player. S-video, component video and composite video are also supported, while source components with a Scart output, such as Sky+ or FreeView, can be connected via the optional adapter.

Drawing on design principles first seen in the ScreenPlay 777, the IN72 chassis is a radical departure from its predecessor. Stunning aesthetics however are only part of this change. The redesigned optical assembly and ventilation system lowers both operating temperature and noise levels.

For table-top mounting, a unique "mono" foot with ball joint allows the IN72 to be quickly and precisely adjusted to the required position. For ceiling mounting simply remove the foot and attach the optional bracket. The image will be automatically adjusted when the projector is inverted.

Finally for ease of operation and installation, the IN72 provides multiple video presets, 12V screen trigger and direct IR control.

Whether for a film, sporting event, or computer game the IN72 is capable making the largest plasma screen look like a portable TV.

Guide retail price : £900 (1 x Unit)

A great big 'YAWN". Still vapor-ware until it ships.

When is the earliest we will see any reviews?

How about after they ship?

A great big 'YAWN". Still vapor-ware until it ships.

I don't think you know what "vaporware" means. Has this product missed any ship
dates?

I for one greatly appreciate Infocus' presence here and thank them for being the
first company to bring affordable DLP to the masses with the X1.

I saw a demo of the 74 and 76 this week. Looked good, was somewhat disappointed that the 76 is more of a replacement of the SP5000 then the 7205/7210. Big step down from the 7210 to the IN76. Which I guess should have been obvious from the price point, wishful thinking I guess.

myerss, thanks for the opinion. Bob Williams compared the IN76 to the 7205 earlier and said the 7205 had a few things in its favor as did the IN76. Can you give us a brief (or detailed ;) ) description of the demo as far as gear, lighting, sources, etc.

It was an Infocus dealer demo. 480i dvd feed to show the pixelworks de-interlacer and scaler. Also D-VHS of I-Robot and 1080i DirectTV. Room was not optimal, painted screen on a wall. They were also the Infocus demo cases, traveling all over the country and going through airport scanners. The picture quality was impressive, but you could see some motion artifacts. From the specs that they put out, the refresh rate on the 7205 is about 70% faster than the IN76, and the 7210 is another 30% improved over the 7205.

You could definitely tell the difference between the Farouja processor and the pixelworks. Not that the pixelworks was bad by any stretch. The 7205 will be gone about the end of Q3, and there is another projector in the works to replace that one.

I own a Panny900, and if the IN76 had been available I probably would have gone in that direction. The motion blur was similar to the 900, possibly a little cleaner. The Infocus rep even said that the IN76 is a replacement for the SP5000.

It didn't help that they were also showing a demo of the 777 and 7210. The 777 is the cleanest looking projector I've seen in person, including the Qualia, Ruby and anything from Runco.

Thanks myerss. I guess I'll have to try seeing the IN76 before ordering. I was so certain about the 4805 that I bought it sight unseen and couldn't have been more pleased. I was hoping the IN76 would be worth upgrading to, but with your mention of the slow refresh rate I'd better look for myself. Unfortunately, it's not so easy to find a decent demo of any particular pj, even here in NYC.

Martin. I purchased the 4805 sight unseen myself. My wife still thinks that it looked better than the Panasonic 900, lower res or not. I thought that I'd move the Panny to the basement and upgrade to the IN76. I think I'll wait for the 7210 to come down or the new 78? to come out. Also worth noting, its possible that Best Buy (Magnolia) will carry the 72 and 76. 74EX is custom installers only.

It was an Infocus dealer demo. 480i dvd feed to show the pixelworks de-interlacer and scaler. Also D-VHS of I-Robot and 1080i DirectTV. Room was not optimal, painted screen on a wall. They were also the Infocus demo cases, traveling all over the country and going through airport scanners. The picture quality was impressive, but you could see some motion artifacts. From the specs that they put out, the refresh rate on the 7205 is about 70% faster than the IN76, and the 7210 is another 30% improved over the 7205.

You could definitely tell the difference between the Farouja processor and the pixelworks. Not that the pixelworks was bad by any stretch. The 7205 will be gone about the end of Q3, and there is another projector in the works to replace that one.

I own a Panny900, and if the IN76 had been available I probably would have gone in that direction. The motion blur was similar to the 900, possibly a little cleaner. The Infocus rep even said that the IN76 is a replacement for the SP5000.

It didn't help that they were also showing a demo of the 777 and 7210. The 777 is the cleanest looking projector I've seen in person, including the Qualia, Ruby and anything from Runco.

Thanks for the nice summary. Could you comment on why you would probably go with the IN76 over the Panny900.

If you feed the IN76 through DVI don't you bypass the Pixelwooks and just use the pj to scale?

I agree the 777 is the best pj I have every seen.

The Infocus rep even said that the IN76 is a replacement for the SP5000.
I think that's a particularly bad choice of words on the part of the IF rep. The IN76 is a replacement for the LCD SP5000 only in the fact that it is replacing it as the entry level 720p HT projector. It would be a mistake to try to read more into it than that. The SP5000 is an older generation LCD and the IN76 is an HD2+ DLP. They are going to offer substantially different images.

It's more accurate to think of the IN76 as closer to the 7205 in performance.

When asked about the IN76 vs 7205:
That one is tougher. The SP7205 has a DarkChip 2 DLP chip similar to the IN76, but it also has a 7-segment wheel which means that there will be fewer dithering artifacts. So from a DLP picture quality standpoint I think that the SP7205 wins even though the contrast is a little lower. However, the platform has louder acoustic noise, lacks 1080i advanced deinterlacing (the Faroudja chip will only do "bob" deinterlacing for 1080i), and does not have the very latest connectivity option of HDMI (although with an adapter you get most of HDMI's capability). Your choice will depend on which of these things are important to you.

I think I'll wait for the 7210 to come down...
I thought about that too, but considering the fact that the 5700 still has an MSRP and MAP of $2999 and is clearly a dinosaur at this point, I don't see the 7210 coming down for a long time... :o

Thanks for the nice summary. Could you comment on why you would probably go with the IN76 over the Panny900.

If you feed the IN76 through DVI don't you bypass the Pixelwooks and just use the pj to scale?

I agree the 777 is the best pj I have every seen.
I like my Panny 900, but it doesn't blow me away. Not a fan of how it handles 1080i, too soft on the scaling and deinterlacing. The picture just doesn't 'pop' for me. The motion blur with the Panny is noticeable, and the dust blob that I have right now is driving me nuts! And I am a big Infocus fan. If DLP didn't give me a headache I would have one now.

Yes you would bypass the Pixelworks. The Infocus rep was just showing the differences in the processing of the Farouja to the Pixelworks. They had to cut cost to get to that price point, and Farouja isn't cheap.

I thought about that too, but considering the fact that the 5700 still has an MSRP and MAP of $2999 and is clearly a dinosaur at this point, I don't see the 7210 coming down for a long time... :o

Probably not, but I can always hope! :) I went back and forth on the 5700, Panny 900 and BenQ 7700. Still not sure I made the right call.

I have to say the 74EX looked really close in performance to the 76. The 5700 and now the 74EX are great projectors, its just a hard sell with the 576P.

I don't think you know what "vaporware" means. Has this product missed any ship
dates?

I for one greatly appreciate Infocus' presence here and thank them for being the
first company to bring affordable DLP to the masses with the X1.

From Dictionary.com

<jargon> /vay'pr-weir/ (UK "vapourware") Products announced far in advance of any release (which may or may not actually take place). The term came from Atari users and was later applied by Infoworld to Microsoft's continuous lying about Microsoft Windows.

Not saying Bob is continuously lying about anything, but the genuflecting and slathering over his every word by some in this forum is getting past silly. "Bob, you're the greatest! Can I name a child after you, Bob?" ":D

Later this year when InFocus intros their $499 projector, they'll REALLY bring affordable projecting to the masses. Think I'm kidding? Ask Mr. Bob. Just think, you can have an InFocus projector in every room of the house. :rolleyes: Pretty soon, they'll start giving the projectors away to get you to purchase the lamp (and the batteries? :p ), kind of like Tivo plans to give away their DVR's to get you sign a contract for the service. :D

A refurb 7205 is close to the IN76.

Quoting Dijuno, "Not saying Bob is continuously lying about anything, but the genuflecting and slathering over his every word by some in this forum is getting past silly. "Bob, you're the greatest! Can I name a child after you, Bob?" " .
____________________________________________________________ _

Wow, that's a little heavy on the sarcasm there Mr. 9 posts. I've almost never seen such involved participation from the designer of a product I've owned anywhere and I get a real kick out of it. I guess no good deed goes unpunished. It so happens I've met Bob and he's cool, as for you well.. that remains to be seen.

Anyone know where the IN76 will be demoed in NYC?

Quoting Dijuno, "Not saying Bob is continuously lying about anything, but the genuflecting and slathering over his every word by some in this forum is getting past silly. "Bob, you're the greatest! Can I name a child after you, Bob?" " .
____________________________________________________________ _

Wow, that's a little heavy on the sarcasm there Mr. 9 posts. I've almost never seen such involved participation from the designer of a product I've owned anywhere and I get a real kick out of it. I guess no good deed goes unpunished. It so happens I've met Bob and he's cool, as for you well.. that remains to be seen.

Anyone know where the IN76 will be demoed in NYC?

:D C'mon, comedy is nothing if not sarcasm. Also, I don't have post envy. Remember, it's not the the size of the posts... it's how you use them! :p

The picture quality was impressive, but you could see some motion artifacts. From the specs that they put out, the refresh rate on the 7205 is about 70% faster than the IN76, and the 7210 is another 30% improved over the 7205.

Hi myerss - what refresh rate specs are those? The 7205/7210 support 48Hz playback of film content, so I would expect that they are a little smoother than the IN76 when playing that type of content, but the refresh rate is actually slower in that case.

It almost sounds like you're referring to the controller speed, but both the IN76 and 7210 use the same DDP1010 controller.

I see nothing wrong with naming a child after Bob. :D

Hi myerss - what refresh rate specs are those? The 7205/7210 support 48Hz playback of film content, so I would expect that they are a little smoother than the IN76 when playing that type of content, but the refresh rate is actually slower in that case.

It almost sounds like you're referring to the controller speed, but both the IN76 and 7210 use the same DDP1010 controller.
As Bob W said earlier, it's the extra segment in the 7205's colorwheel that makes the difference in the motion artifacts(dithering) and with the 7210 having the DC3 chip, the performance gap is further widened.

Hi Smithfarmer - you're probably right about that spec referring to the color wheel. I just noticed that even though the 7205 and 7210 use the same 7 segment wheel, the 7210 mentions variable speed, so maybe that's the difference betweem the two.

I assumed myerss was talking about motion blur and not dithering when he mentioned motion artifacts, since he compared motion blur on the IN76 and the Panny 900. That's what was confusing me.

:D C'mon, comedy is nothing if not sarcasm. Also, I don't have post envy. Remember, it's not the the size of the posts... it's how you use them! :p
"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" (origin obscure)

Let's give a pat on the back to Bob. It looks like they nailed it with the new 1.3.2 firmware. Since the 4805 is pretty old in projector years, and InFocus has those sleek black QUIET projectors in the starting gate, they could easily have abandoned us.

Hi Smithfarmer - you're probably right about that spec referring to the color wheel. I just noticed that even though the 7205 and 7210 use the same 7 segment wheel, the 7210 mentions variable speed, so maybe that's the difference betweem the two.

I assumed myerss was talking about motion blur and not dithering when he mentioned motion artifacts, since he compared motion blur on the IN76 and the Panny 900. That's what was confusing me.
Hey Jeff, my bad. Problems arise when a few of us get our terminology wrong. :D I called it dithering, thinking of "motion dithering", not the dithering you see up close in the black area of an image, having read it somewhere else but that was an incorrect description.

If you go back throught the thread to where Bob answers someones query about moition artifacts during fast pans he calls it temporal contouring. I assume that is what myerss was refereing to when he speaks of motion blur. Sorry for furthering the confusion. ;)


Originally Posted by FlyingGimp
Bob - Does the IN76 use the new DDP3020 as a DMD controller? If not, does the IN76 have anything proprietary to reduce the DLP panning dithering artifacts?

No, it uses the DDP1010 controller which is the same as we use on the SP7210. As far as "DLP panning dithering" or what we like to call temporal contouring is concerned, I will say that I believe we spend more time optimizing the bit sequences for the DLP devices than anyone, and they are proprietary to us alone. The bit sequences determine the mirror behavior during each frame of the image.

Hey Jeff, my bad. Problems arise when a few of us get our terminology wrong. :D I called it dithering, thinking of "motion dithering", not the dithering you see up close in the black area of an image, having read it somewhere else but that was an incorrect description.

If you go back throught the thread to where Bob answers someones query about moition artifacts during fast pans he calls it temporal contouring. I assume that is what myerss was refereing to when he speaks of motion blur. Sorry for furthering the confusion. ;)
Hi Smithfarmer, I'm not so sure it's your bad! I'm just curious and confused over what the refresh rate spec was that myerss referred to. Hopefully he will return and clear things up. :)

Later this year when InFocus intros their $499 projector, they'll REALLY bring affordable projecting to the masses.

Okay.. I'll bite since no one here has. What's the deal with the $499 projector? Is this more of your sarcastic humor or does this comment have some factual basis?

Okay.. I'll bite since no one here has. What's the deal with the $499 projector? Is this more of your sarcastic humor or does this comment have some factual basis?

I think they're referring to the IN24

http://www.infocus.com/Products/Projectors/IN24.aspx

which looks like a remodeled X2

Victor

I think they're referring to the IN24

http://www.infocus.com/Products/Projectors/IN24.aspx

which looks like a remodeled X2

Victor

Umm.. no.

IF will intro a new line of "gonzo gaming" projectors to be sold through retail chains like BB, CC, etc. before Christmas this year retailing as low as $499 with matching accessories packaged for retail, such as a DVD player, speakers, etc. Bob should be able to elaborate when the time comes, but I don't think he'd be allowed to comment on it at this time. I'd be surprised if he was even allowed to acknowledge it. IF will probably be PO'd that someone disclosed this much info.

That's all I will offer until IF unveils these, except to say, these are not HT quality projectors so don't sit around waiting for a $499 HT quality projector anytime soon. Joe Sixpack, however, who doesn't care too much about resolution, contrast, scaling chips, etc.. can just throw it in the shopping basket and go.

Hi myerss - what refresh rate specs are those? The 7205/7210 support 48Hz playback of film content, so I would expect that they are a little smoother than the IN76 when playing that type of content, but the refresh rate is actually slower in that case.

It almost sounds like you're referring to the controller speed, but both the IN76 and 7210 use the same DDP1010 controller.

Just thought I'd add that one would be hard pressed to tell the difference between 48, 59.94, and 72 Hz without being told which one was which. Maybe some stuttering here and there.

Surely, as you and smithfarmer pointed out, it must be the 7-segment difference.

I've got an IF IN74 right now in my house and it's NICE!!! Quiet and the picture just POPS. I have a $12K Sharp 9000 right now and the IF is kicking its ass in no uncertain terms (though I suppose that is to be expected). The unit is on loan from IF for a big surround demo this weekend. Blacks are fantastic, detail is great. It doesn't dispense with endemic DLP projectors, but compared to the SP5000 LCD, this thing kills it. The longer I had the 5000 in my showroom, the more I hated LCD. I have a Gray Dove screen that is too dark, but the 74 lights it up much better than the Sharp. I really don't have a *good* projector with which to compare it and it's just some off the cuff stuff, but I really, REALLY like this projector! I can't wait to replace my Sharp with an IN76. Especially since it will finally fill my 110" screen in the new house (projector is too close) and I can get rid of the Gray Dove for a higher gain screen since black levels are more than acceptable. I'll report other observations as they come up. HDMI works great with the NAD M55 universal player. No hiccups so far!

Alimentall

Is there a studio/PC DVI toggle switch on the IN74? I think Bob said it was only available on the IN76.

So, how is it OTB as far as accuracy? Have you Avia'd or DVE'd it?

AND, of course, how is the noise level of the fan?

Is there a studio/PC DVI toggle switch on the IN74? I think Bob said it was only available on the IN76.

What do you mean by that? In the menu? I haven't seen anything like that. Let me know where to look and I'll let you know.

So, how is it OTB as far as accuracy? Have you Avia'd or DVE'd it?

I haven't, but my eyes say it's damned good.

AND, of course, how is the noise level of the fan?

Very quiet. Audible without anything playing, but amazingly quiet.

I've got an IF IN74 right now in my house and it's NICE!!! Quiet and the picture just POPS. I have a $12K Sharp 9000 right now and the IF is kicking its ass in no uncertain terms (though I suppose that is to be expected).

John, why would that be expected? The IN74 is a 1024x576 pj with a $2K retail price. The Sharp 9000 is a full 720p projector and many professional reviewers said it was "jaw dropping." I realize the technology is about 3 years old, but is the lower resolution pj at 1/4 the list price THAT much better. Please tell us more.

Can't wait to start getting some reviews on the IN76.

Mit, it's not even close. The reason it would be expected to be better is that the chip technology is so much more advanced, but I didn't think it would be so dramatic. The Sharp uses an HD1, not HD2 or HD2+, let alone DC3. I believe the chip in the IN74 is two generations newer. The picture is both blacker and whiter and the colors are *way* better than the sharp. Video processing is cleaner too, so the picture looks sharper, even with fewer pixels. The only advantage is that the IN74 was fed with HDMI, rather than component.

without reading thru this entire thread, when is the IN76 expected at retailers?

Their website says they are expected to ship in mid March.

I was hoping to hear John S's review of the IN76 that he he was watching over the weekend. ;)

Wow, this thread got quiet. So quiet it fell off Sticky and off the first page. Do you think this is anticipation over first review and/or launch? Or have we literally answered all the questions? (naw!)

A friend who works for Infocus said there is a meeting happening this week in which the MAP for inital launch will be set. And then sales kits will be shipped Monday. Anyone with insight know if that sounds reasonable or am I being fed a line?

I have seen this posted on a website selling for less than the HC3000U, so it looks like the street pricing will be competitive.

If I input the signal in native 1280 X720 can the IN76 display the picture with NO resizing? Aka. can the IN76 display in "pixel perfect" or "one to one" mode?

Yes. That is in fact the default mode for 720p sources.

The Infocus website indicates that the IN76 has three digital inputs....DVI, M1, and HDMI. For the best performance which of the three inputs should I plan on using? My initial thinking is to use HDMI because on the Infocus web specs the HDMI input as the only one that lists it is HDCP supported.

There are 2 digital inputs available, an HDMI connector and the M1-DA connector. Both should work just as well since there are two identical HDMI receivers behind those connectors, and they are both HDCP enabled.

Anyone know where the IN76 will be demoed in NYC?I PM'ed you on this.

There are 2 digital inputs available, an HDMI connector and the M1-DA connector. Both should work just as well since there are two identical HDMI receivers behind those connectors, and they are both HDCP enabled.

Bob,
Will an M1-DVI adapter be included with the IN76? What is the reason for not just having an direct DVI input?

Bob,
Will an M1-DVI adapter be included with the IN76? What is the reason for not just having an direct DVI input?
No, we do not include an adapter but they are available through our store and from others. If you prefer third party solutions there is a direct HDMI input and adapters between HDMI and DVI are common. One of the reasons to use the M1-DA connector is that it is a mutliple function input using very little projector real estate. It can be used as a RGBHV, component, DVI, HDMI, and USB connection; so it replaces all of those connectors with one multi-function connector. How you use it is up to you, thereby giving maximum flexibility for a relatively small number of connectors on this product line.

Does anyone know where the center of the screen will be in relation to
the center of the lens (angle) on the IN76?
Thanks