If I wanted to upgrade my current installation by replacing my 4805 with the IN76 and use the same 92" screen and ceiling mount, how much adjustment will be needed to get the image to fit on the screen? Will I need to move the ceiling mount, raise/lower the projector, move the screen, or all of the above? From the InFocus calculator, a 4805 mount position should be within the throw range of the IN76 but I'm not sure about the differences in image height and offset.

It would be great if I could just switch out the projectors and make a few adjustments and be good to go! :)

A quick question. I have the X1 and it loses the video for about 5 seconds when I switch inputs or while watching some SD tv shows. Do the other Infocus projectors do this or has this been solved?

If I wanted to upgrade my current installation by replacing my 4805 with the IN76 and use the same 92" screen and ceiling mount, how much adjustment will be needed to get the image to fit on the screen? Will I need to move the ceiling mount, raise/lower the projector, move the screen, or all of the above? From the InFocus calculator, a 4805 mount position should be within the throw range of the IN76 but I'm not sure about the differences in image height and offset.

It would be great if I could just switch out the projectors and make a few adjustments and be good to go! :)

If the SP4805 is already within the throw range of the IN76 then you will probably only need to adjust the height of the projector because the image offset is smaller in the IN76 than the SP4805. Using our universal mount there is a half inch difference in the ideal horizontal position of the lens, but that difference should not be noticeable at the screen.

A quick question. I have the X1 and it loses the video for about 5 seconds when I switch inputs or while watching some SD tv shows. Do the other Infocus projectors do this or has this been solved?

The IN7X projectors have a new video decoder and A/D converter that unlike previous products will not usually require a re-sync when switching channels on VCRs or set-top boxes. However, if the signal is lost or the resolution changes then a few seconds are needed to acquire the new signal.

Plasmar, Bob, that was just what I'm hoping to do, keep my mount position and switch out to the IN76. I'm using a Chief mount that detaches automaticaly without changing anything for an easy removal. I'd like to keep my Chief mount, so does that mean I have to get some kind of custom plate to mount an IN76? Hopefully Chief will produce a compatible mounting plate, or I'll have to make my own or find some universal adapter.

Do we have an official street date yet for the IN72?

Does anyone know the fan noise on infocus IN76?

Sothoms -

I haven't seen any numbers, but we have this quote from a VERY reliable source:

Originally Posted by Bob Williams
Then good luck reviewing. The IN72 is quieter in its high power mode than the 4805 is in its low power mode.

IF will intro a new line of "gonzo gaming" projectors to be sold through retail chains like BB, CC, etc. before Christmas this year retailing as low as $499

Speaking of the lowest end of the Infocus lineup, I've been thinking of getting a very cheap 2nd projector for the kids to watch, so they don't hog my viewing room and new primary PJ all the time. Nothing special, just inexpensive and able to take an SVGA connection to the HTPC; but it should look at least as nice for that as my old recently-sold X1 did since that's pretty much the minimum of acceptability. I was about to grab an X2 as the secondary PJ since IF has that rebate, but they just posted specs on the IN24 which looks like a replacement for both the X2 and X1a with an MSRP of just $699, using a new lamp. So, aside from the minor differences in throw ratio etc., does anyone know if there's any difference between the IN24 and X2 which might be of concern? If it'll basically produce the same image, I may as well wait til next month and grab the IN24 to use as the kids' PJ.

Sorry for the aside, but I'm just curious as to whether there's any real difference under the hood that should push me toward the old or the new. Either way, getting a cheap second PJ for the kids is one of my better ideas, since they're always hogging the viewing room and then arguing over what to watch. This way I'll get kicked out less often, and there'll be less argument over what to watch on the PJ since there'll be two. :-)

Speaking of the lowest end of the Infocus lineup, I've been thinking of getting a very cheap 2nd projector for the kids to watch, so they don't hog my viewing room and new primary PJ all the time. Nothing special, just inexpensive and able to take an SVGA connection to the HTPC; but it should look at least as nice for that as my old recently-sold X1 did since that's pretty much the minimum of acceptability. I was about to grab an X2 as the secondary PJ since IF has that rebate, but they just posted specs on the IN24 which looks like a replacement for both the X2 and X1a with an MSRP of just $699, using a new lamp. So, aside from the minor differences in throw ratio etc., does anyone know if there's any difference between the IN24 and X2 which might be of concern? If it'll basically produce the same image, I may as well wait til next month and grab the IN24 to use as the kids' PJ.

Sorry for the aside, but I'm just curious as to whether there's any real difference under the hood that should push me toward the old or the new. Either way, getting a cheap second PJ for the kids is one of my better ideas, since they're always hogging the viewing room and then arguing over what to watch. This way I'll get kicked out less often, and there'll be less argument over what to watch on the PJ since there'll be two. :-)

Depending on how "tricked out" you want the kid's arrangement will be, you might consider the Optoma projector with the DVD player built-in. I think they must be discounting those pretty well now.

Speaking of the lowest end of the Infocus lineup, I've been thinking of getting a very cheap 2nd projector for the kids to watch, so they don't hog my viewing room and new primary PJ all the time. Nothing special, just inexpensive and able to take an SVGA connection to the HTPC; but it should look at least as nice for that as my old recently-sold X1 did since that's pretty much the minimum of acceptability. I was about to grab an X2 as the secondary PJ since IF has that rebate, but they just posted specs on the IN24 which looks like a replacement for both the X2 and X1a with an MSRP of just $699, using a new lamp. So, aside from the minor differences in throw ratio etc., does anyone know if there's any difference between the IN24 and X2 which might be of concern? If it'll basically produce the same image, I may as well wait til next month and grab the IN24 to use as the kids' PJ.

Sorry for the aside, but I'm just curious as to whether there's any real difference under the hood that should push me toward the old or the new. Either way, getting a cheap second PJ for the kids is one of my better ideas, since they're always hogging the viewing room and then arguing over what to watch. This way I'll get kicked out less often, and there'll be less argument over what to watch on the PJ since there'll be two. :-)

Someone said earlier in this thread that IF is coming out with a $499 MSRP PJ later this year. Don't know if there's any truth to it.

If the SP4805 is already within the throw range of the IN76 then you will probably only need to adjust the height of the projector because the image offset is smaller in the IN76 than the SP4805. Using our universal mount there is a half inch difference in the ideal horizontal position of the lens, but that difference should not be noticeable at the screen.

That's good to know, because I'm also planning to replace my 4805 for the IN76, and it's great that I can use the current set up.

I live in Europe: Will the IN76 hit the stores before summer?

I currently have a 4805 and because of a low hanging I beam, the picture is a bit lower to the floor then i would prefer ( the projector is ceiling mounted). Will the lower offset of the 76 mean that the picture will even be closer to the floor or will it be closer to the ceiling- thanks Ron

I currently have a 4805 and because of a low hanging I beam, the picture is a bit lower to the floor then i would prefer ( the projector is ceiling mounted). Will the lower offset of the 76 mean that the picture will even be closer to the floor or will it be closer to the ceiling- thanks Ron
The smaller offset of the IN76 will mean that the picture will be higher on the wall than the SP4805 when ceiling mounted.

Plasmar, Bob, that was just what I'm hoping to do, keep my mount position and switch out to the IN76. I'm using a Chief mount that detaches automaticaly without changing anything for an easy removal. I'd like to keep my Chief mount, so does that mean I have to get some kind of custom plate to mount an IN76? Hopefully Chief will produce a compatible mounting plate, or I'll have to make my own or find some universal adapter.
Most third party mount manufacturers should have a compatible plate for the new series once they are are generally available. The bottom of the projector is flat so there shouldn't be any issue with most mount geometries.

All I have been doing is reading, reading, reading. I was all set to pick up the Hitachi hdp j52, But this talk about the IF 76 has confused me. Can anyone do a spec compare for me?


Eyes blurred-head pounding.....

Thanks

Rabid

All I have been doing is reading, reading, reading. I was all set to pick up the Hitachi hdp j52, But this talk about the IF 76 has confused me. Can anyone do a spec compare for me?


You can read the specs for the IN76 here (http://www.infocus.com/Products/Projectors/IN76.aspx)

bob, i am curious how does infocus perform qa testing on new projectors. Do you leave multiple units on conintously until the bulb blows out, or do you try to simulate normal usage by turning it on for a couple hours every day? Under different room temps / brightness settings?

Although i never owned an infocus i always have a good feeling about the brand because never heard any major problems in terms of reliability.

thanks,
-gaga

Hey Guys, I got a catalog in the mail today from CF that shows the IN72 for $300 below MSRP. I wasn't sure if I could post the name of the company or not. Just thought some of you would be interested.

Jeremy

Can't wait for the 76 to get here, just hope it can be had for less than retail!

I'm also interested in the IN76. If it's close to MSRP, I don't think they'll sell very well.

Sothoms -

I haven't seen any numbers, but we have this quote from a VERY reliable source:

Originally Posted by Bob Williams
Then good luck reviewing. The IN72 is quieter in its high power mode than the 4805 is in its low power mode.

thanx jvos

I just wanted to see if anyone has updates on the availability of the new Infocus pj's yet.

Thanks

I just wanted to see if anyone has updates on the availability of the new Infocus pj's yet.

Thanks

Yes....

Yes....
:D :D :D

Yes....


but you'd have to kill us, right? ;)

that is just mean! hahaha

Welcome back Kras!

It seems the 72, 74, and 76 all use the same lamp. Lamp MSRP seem very low compared to other infocus models at MSRP $249.

There's an Audioholic's preliminary review of the IN76here (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/InFocusIN76DLPprojector.php)

I have a 7ft basement... I want to produce a 106" screen, 52"x92" i believe, in my home theater...

Would I be able to place this pojector (ceiling mount) okay to produce this image? My room is about 23ft deep.

Nathan

Pixelworks cons: Slightly worse low angle interpolation, No 60 to 48 Hz frame rate conversion.
So no custom 48hz timings I presume?

The author of the review (JS) is (or was?) an AVS authorized reseller who used to post his reviews on AVS. Now he posted his review on Audioholics rather than AVS.

Press Pause. Hmmmm....wonder why?

So no custom 48hz timings I presume?


Ja Phule

This was for component 480i - only the SP7210 enabled it. You could use a standard DVD player to drive 48Hz - rather than an HTPC - with this exclusively implemented Faroudja feature.

I think I need to digest that review. Although the review was positive in nature, I need to come to terms with the fact that the new chip may offer inferior performance in SDE and brightness to the older HD2+ chip.

I've narrowed it down to the IN76 and Optoma HD78DC3 and plan on buying soon. Brightness, bulb life, OTB color accuracy, and the 0% offset are major concerns with the Optoma. I plan on using a 110" screen and need a projector that can drive a screen that size without resorting to a high gain screen. I had counted on the IN76 getting very close to the brightness levels of the 7025/7210, but it sounds like the IN76 is less bright to a noticeable degree. That could eliminate brightness as a big edge for the IN76 vs the H78, although the always reliable InFocus color accuracy edge is still there and not to be underestimated.

I'm a big fan of InFocus. I think they make great products that are reliable and well engineered. I want to stay with the brand. At the current MAP for the IN76 however, I don't think I can. If these chips are a step down from the HD2+, the projectors that use them need to be priced accordingly and not at $3K. Just my humble (and sad) opinion. :(

Kras - how 'bout giving me a killer deal on your 7210 demo and getting me off the hook! :D

@all

We were all told a March 16th release date by more than one source. More recently an InFocus salesman called me and left a message about a pre-order for a March 16th ship date. Is this news to some?

I did not pre-order one, I was asking for an independant review and a comparison between the IN76, HC3000 and HD72. I have seen HC3000 vs. HD72 and see HC3000 has slight better picture but the HD72 2 more useful features and one does not come into play for me.

Right now in my mind it is HC3000 unless IN76 is priced the same and performs better.

k

The InFocus support site for the new lineup is now live. Here's a quick link to the user and reference guides.

http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/ug.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&

Bob, Thanks for the link to the support site. The safety warning's "keep out" zone as shown on page 2 (pdf page 3) of the Reference Guide is a bit disconcerting. From your previous postings, I gather that U.L. was satisfied with the design. I gather the Infocus lawyers felt this warning was needed. Any comments?

The author of the review (JS) is (or was?) an AVS authorized reseller who used to post his reviews on AVS. Now he posted his review on Audioholics rather than AVS.

Press Pause. Hmmmm....wonder why?

Not sure what you're getting at here. I thought AVS has some sort of arrangement with Audioholics where they post links to Audioholics reviews on their front page.
Clarify it for us dummies who don't get it :confused:

There's an Audioholic's preliminary review of the IN76here (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/InFocusIN76DLPprojector.php)

WOW! What a great review. This should be considered required reading for anyone considering a LCD or DLP projector in the price range of this forum.

Thanks John.

Bob, Thanks for the link to the support site. The safety warning's "keep out" zone as shown on page 2 (pdf page 3) of the Reference Guide is a bit disconcerting. From your previous postings, I gather that U.L. was satisfied with the design. I gather the Infocus lawyers felt this warning was needed. Any comments?

The projectors passed all of the U.L. tests with no problems, and nothing I am aware of about the design is inferior in any way from a safety perspective compared to previous projectors from InFocus or current competitive offerings from others.

I think the goal is that given as much information as possible we want the user to decide where and how best to use the product. Of course the safest way to use many products is not to use them at all.

Thanks, Bob. I won't worry about sitting under the projector (and I wasn't really worried when I made the previous post). It's rather clear that the lawyers required the warning. I can easily imagine some people becoming concerned and returning the projector, though. (I've never seen such a warning before.)

I've been quite happy with my X1 for three years now, but the IN76 looks like it will be an excellent upgrade.

I think that's a really good first look article. It answers some of my questions regarding the IN76 - comparisons to DC3, encouraging news about black levels and contrast, and offset.
I think the comparison to the AE900U could be more specific, and some comparison shots would have been cool, but that's what the full reviews are for, I suppose. The other comparison I would *REALLY* like to see is against the new Samsung, which is probably going to fall in the same price ballpark, and has positive comments in areas that are usually Infocus' strength - color rendition.
Between the Samsung, the upcoming Z3000 and the equally upcoming IN76, this is looking like a really exciting pony race :D

Noticeable dithering, eh? Blargh :p

For whatever reason, dithering really bothers me and I seem to notice it more than a few other people I know. Maybe it's just psychological and once I know it's there, I look at it more or something, but dithering has been the main thing that's kept me from buying a DLP display thus far. At this point, since I have other things to upgrade in my theater, I'm thinking I may just stick it out for one more year with my Z2 and wait to see what can be had in a year's time. Hopefully DC3 prices will continue to fall - I imagine they will as 1080p projectors become more plentiful and 3-chip projectors do as well. It seems pretty darn clear that DC3 chip projectors are a definite step up from these DC2 chip units - I haven't seen any reports anywhere that say otherwise. It's just a matter of price for me, so hopefully, by next year, I'll either have more money to spend or DC3 prices will be lower (or both :) )

I do hope that Infocus brings out another DC3 unit though. I'd love to see a unit with 7210 picture quality, but a slightly lower price and a new, quieter case design. Lens shift would also be a very nice feature to have too! I'm a bit shy of buying an Optoma due to heat and lamp issues, but that H78DC3 sure does look tempting :p

Jon

Is it out of the question to expect more than one word on the topic?

I would be grateful if someone that knows when the avialability of the new Infocus lineup would share that info with the forum

Thanks.

Give it time microbilogist, and welcome to the forum. Thanks for that link mbroder.
I've been anticipating the IN76 and was looking forward to having a cool looking new case design and higher def than my IN 4805, but now I'm hesitant to trade the 4805's Dark Chip for the newer hybrid chip. I would have thought by now that we would be seeing a Dark Chip 3 for under 3k.

MicroB, I just got in 3 IN76s on Monday, and they were gone the same day. More coming of all varieties later this week, early next, so I'm told. The value is stupendous IMO. I am a dealer and I'm definitely getting one to replace the big Sharp I have now. I think the IN76 looks about the same as a 7205 from memory. But the price is so much better and this will be my machine until a 1080p projector comes down in price or maybe even until a 3-chip or LCD units come down. The colors are amazing.

ordered mine yesterday and was told it will ship late next week. Here is a review:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/InFocusIN76DLPprojector.php

can't wait..!!

In stock now at Crutchfield.........others should be coming soon if not already.

If only I would have done my taxes already! I have to wait for a back ordered lamp for my 4805 when instead I could be waiting for the already shipping IN76! I really didn't expect to put so many hours on my 4805 in one year. Damn.

Full price? I had hoped not. Better wait a week to see some reviews. They better be 33% better than HD72 and 25% better than HC3000 to command that .... and I doubt it.

k

That particular retailer is always full price. You need to wait until some of the other retailers (including a few forum sponsors) start selling them. Some of those discount, especially if you call them.

If it's true that the original MSRP was going to be $2495 (which makes MUCH more sense to me from a market standpoint BTW), than there is some definite room for discounting to occur.

I'm ready for reviews of all 3 units. I'm curious about the IF74 to and how good it looks.

Thanks for the reply. If you are an experienced IF user and dealer, could you compare the IN76 or IN74ex with the 5700?

Many thanks in advance.

MicroB, I just got in 3 IN76s on Monday, and they were gone the same day. More coming of all varieties later this week, early next, so I'm told. The value is stupendous IMO. I am a dealer and I'm definitely getting one to replace the big Sharp I have now. I think the IN76 looks about the same as a 7205 from memory. But the price is so much better and this will be my machine until a 1080p projector comes down in price or maybe even until a 3-chip or LCD units come down. The colors are amazing.


Thanks for the reply. If you are an experienced IF user and dealer, could you compare the IN76 or IN74ex with the 5700?

Many thanks in advance.

Give it time microbilogist, and welcome to the forum. Thanks for that link mbroder.
I've been anticipating the IN76 and was looking forward to having a cool looking new case design and higher def than my IN 4805, but now I'm hesitant to trade the 4805's Dark Chip for the newer hybrid chip. I would have thought by now that we would be seeing a Dark Chip 3 for under 3k.

Thanks for the kind welcome. I have been watching this forum for several weeks as I have recently become interested in projectors. I actually owned a Kloss Novabeam back in the day (really bad pic quality) and later an Electrohome CRT type that I got used (nice unit but parts prices were off the chart). I have been using RP's the last 5 years or so but recently was made aware the FP's had gotten pretty good. I recently won an auction for a 5700 and am impressed with the advances in pic quality considering the very light weight nature of these devices. I consider this a starting point in my learning curve re. projectors. I really like the enthusiasm of these forums. They remind me of the old days in high end audio back when that was a real cool hobby. BTW I used to participate in local audiophile societies during the high end audio days. Are there similar local organizations for FP enthusiasts? I am in the Tampa Bay area of Florida and would really like to get something like this going in my area.

I am impressed with the Infocus products and hope that good feedback will appear regarding the new line of IF products.

Regards. ;)

Thanks for the reply. If you are an experienced IF user and dealer, could you compare the IN76 or IN74ex with the 5700?

Of course I don't have a 5700 on hand, but the chief liability of the 5700 was the contrast. The IN74 appears to equal the 5700 in most, if not all areas and cleans its clock on contrast and, IMO, color. The IN74 is really more natural and realistic looking than anything I've seen short of the 7210. Despite the review, I think the IN76 equals the 7205 overall, maybe even beats in by a small margin. I think the greens look better on the IN series, looking a bit less florescent than on the 7205/4805. The 7210? Not quite, but you can't argue with the price. I think the 7210 is probably 10-15% better for double the price. I think the IN76 (and its competitors) really is the ultimate "volksprojector". I never even used the high power setting except to note that it really didn't make enough difference for the decreased lamp life and increased noise. In fact, my eyes simply irised down when I engaged it, essentially defeating its usefulness. The IN74 easily handles a 120" diagonal white screen and even looks good on my darkened 110" Gray Dove screen. In fact, until I saw the 74 screen, I was going to switch out the screen for a high gain white screen. But now I can probably hold off for awhile and see if it makes sense. The IN74 demo I did at the local musuem sold about 4-6 IN76 projectors and it wasn't even the "star" of the show. It was part of the supporting cast, but it was the big seller of the day. Every single person thought it was an IN76 and all were shocked when I told them it was $2000. "Really? $2000? Are you serious?!?" I'll be honest, my excitement for projectors had waned over the past year because of the lack of innovation, but the IN series have me as excited as I've ever been about PJs.

Despite the review, I think the IN76 equals the 7205 overall, maybe even beats in by a small margin.
I'll be honest. That Audioholics review bothered me. It was a positive review, but it was a "this is good, but get ready to deal with some compromises because this is a budget-minded projector" kinda review. We all know the IN76 is not a DC3 top of the line unit, but I for one was not expecting to hear that it was inferior to the older HD2+ units in terms of SDE. I have always found John Schuermann's (aka member Angilasaurus) posts on the forum very insightful, honest, and spot on (I can say the same for Kras BTW, but I digress). That's what was disturbing to me - I utterly believe him when he says the IN76 has a courser image than the 7210.

Then I started thinking about it. He's not doing a head to head with the 7205, he's doing it with the 7210. I don't think anyone expected the IN76 to be equivalent to the 7210. In terms of SDE, the DC3 chip has a greater fill factor than the DC2 chip - it always has. Does this translate into a slightly smoother image than the DC2 (or 768p) chip? I would imagine yes, but the fact is it is VERY rare that anyone ever mentions this difference in a side-by-side comparison of DC2 vs DC3. Why? Probably because it is extremely subtle. Everyone comments on the black level and shadow detail difference.

Is the SDE of the 768p chip greater than that of the HD2+ DC2? I don't know, but Cine4home has close up pictures of SDE in all of their reviews and I'll be damned if I can see a difference between the SDE of the Mits HC3000 and the numerous HD2+ PJs they've reviewed. Granted, optics play a part here though.

I think my problem is that I was overemphasizing the negative points of the review. John basically said the differences were subtle, but were there if you looked. I'm sure that's a fair statement. In my mind's eye however, I was blowing up those differences more than I probably should have and more than he probably intended them to be.

Anyway, I'm back to seriously considering the IN76. It's price in comparison to some other units does give me pause, but it's brightness and color accuracy are big pluses in my book. :)

Anyway, I thought it was supposed to be fun to upgrade. I ain't havin' fun - feels like I'm making a life altering decision here. Maybe it's just the fact that I know my wife won't let me upgrade again for at least 4 more years and I have to make it count! :D

To me the Audioholics review is not a positive one for in76, considering its current price is twice that of the ae900. The comparison between ae900 and in76 seems to be 50/50, it certainly does not justify the big price gap between the two.

Of course only based on initial reports, the picture (no pun intended) will become clearer as more reviews come in

To me the Audioholics review is not a positive one for in76, considering its current price is twice that of the ae900. The comparison between ae900 and in76 seems to be 50/50, it certainly does not justify the big price gap between the two.

:confused: The Panasonic retails for $3200 and the IN76 retails for $200 less. I don't know what street price will be, but I don't see the price differential. Maybe there are enough people whoring out the Panny to make it lower priced, but I don't understand why people here constantly compare the going price of an established projector to the retail price of an upcoming one. That's ridiculous. And the way I read the review, it was *at least* 60/40 weighted towards the IN76, not "50/50". In fact, I think they clearly stated that the IN76 was better overall.

:confused: The Panasonic retails for $3200 and the IN76 retails for $200 less. I don't know what street price will be, but I don't see the price differential. Maybe there are enough people whoring out the Panny to make it lower priced, but I don't understand why people here constantly compare the going price of an established projector to the retail price of an upcoming one. That's ridiculous. And the way I read the review, it was *at least* 60/40 weighted towards the IN76, not "50/50". In fact, I think they clearly stated that the IN76 was better overall.


well you must not be looking very hard :) , a quick check of respected dealers websites shows the panny 900 can be had for under 2000 and with the rebate the cost would be closer to the 1500-1600 range alot less than the in76 asking price of 2999. so the panny IMO stacks up fairly well against a p.j. that is going for about double the money :cool: ...

Just like about everything in life. If you want to be first in line to get the hot new product, you will pay more for it. Let's wait 3-6 months, I am sure the price of In76 will be more reasonable.

I did the same thing from the same place for the same price :)

FYI, we are not supposed to be talking street prices around here. The police will come knockin.......

Did not know that. Thanks for the info.

It should sync to 48Hz with no problem. 72 Hz sources will be frame rate converted to 60 Hz, so I do not recommend 72 Hz sources be used. This is pretty typical of DLP products with color wheels due to the allowable motor speeds. We frame lock to all sources from 48 to 62 Hz and frame rate convert everything else.

So no custom 48hz timings I presume?

I am confused. Bob said, from the above quote, that it will sync to 48Hz. But according to Audioholics, as Ja Phule referenced, they mentioned something to the contrary.

So, can the IN76 sync to my HTPC at 48Hz?

What do you mean by that? In the menu? I haven't seen anything like that. Let me know where to look and I'll let you know.



Alimentall

Bob mentioned at the beginning of the thread that the IN76 would have a physical toggle switch built in to the PJ to switch btw PC DVI and Studio DVI. Owners of the 4805 and 72xx have to adjust the RGB gains/offsets (given to us courtesy of Bob) to allow us to change to Studio from the PC defaults. This new model is supposed to offer a simple switch/toggle. Have you seen any such switch?

TRG, it sounds like they're saying that the projector will *sync* to a 48Hz source, but it will *not* take a 60Hz film-based DVD and drop the extra frame to make it the proper 48Hz. What do they call that again, reverse 3:2 pulldown or something?

I haven't seen this switch on the IN74, but I can look. Physical? Or you mean on the menu? I ran it off a PC and a Mac last night via DVI and it worked great.

BTW, I just got word today that the IN72s are shipping, at least to me for the first time. I don't know if anyone else has gotten any prior or not. While not really a chip upgrade from what I can tell, over the 4805, the quieter design, presumably longer lasting color wheel motor, and lots of small tweaks should make for a popular unit, the only problem perhaps being the proximity of the only slightly more expensive models.

I had an IN72 shipped out Tuesday - and it is sitting there unopened while I wait for other install pieces.

I think it is time to kill this thread in favor of official MSRP sticky thread -since product is at dealers and is shipping.

I second Kraz's motion!

btw, welcome back Kraz

If Infocus has a real chance to capture the market from Mitsubishi and Optoma with its version of the 768p chip projector it had better allow street pricing that will meet or beat the competition. At full retail price at some dealers (even online) compared to almost $1,000 less street for the other two... this doesn't bode well for Infocus, even if it is somewhat better than the other two (that remains to be seen, however).

At this stage in the game with 720p chips being out for so long and full 1920x1080p chips breathing down their necks (at under $10,000!), I too am shocked and slightly appauled that we haven't seen DC3 chips in lower priced projectors and even three chip 720p designs (based off the HD2+ or DC3) at less than $8,000 MSRP by now. It's time to leave the color wheel back in the 1940's!!

Dan

If Infocus has a real chance to capture the market from Mitsubishi and Optoma with its version of the 768p chip projector it had better allow street pricing that will meet or beat the competition.
Dan

Infocus MSRP has always been higher than Optoma street price - even when Optoma's mythical MSRP was higher - and yes it may indeed be that street prices are higher because of Infocus policies. People here seem to assume that the DMD version is the sole indicator of quality - when it is only a just one component in an optimized front projection design.

Having reviewed in detail the Optoma H31, Infocus SP4805, and NEC HT410 which were all DC2 480P projectors - they were very very different in actual implementation - starting with entirely different colorwheel designs resulting in very different calibrated brightness. If cheaper was the definition of better - you can get the Infocus SP5000 720P LCD for MSRP $999 after official rebate - rather than paying $2999 MSRP for the IN76.

Infocus markets themselves on being the best value - which does not mean being the cheapest. There will always be something cheaper and always be something more expensive available from Infocus competitors. I fail to see why you think there has not been progress in 720P pricing. Several years ago a brand new Infocus SP7200 would have cost your $11000 MSRP - which quickly fell to $9K when the SP7205 came out - which quickly fell to $5K to make room for the $7K SP7210. Now you are at $3K - which is nearly 1/4th the pricing from a few years ago. If pricing is not moving fast enough for you at 720P - then buy a cheap 720P LCD - or a cheap 480P DLP and wait it out a few more years. Or will your complaint then be that manufacturers are running a 1080P scam because they are not $1K yet?

At the rate I'm selling projectors, I don't think InFocus has much about which to worry. Our competitor is selling the Mitsu at the same price as we're selling the IN76 so it's no biggie. The IN products are so well done, it's simply not an issue. AVS people get a far too obsessed with cheaper = better and it's simply not true. These are the quietest projectors I've ever heard too.

At the rate I'm selling projectors, I don't think InFocus has much about which to worry.

Infocus has a lot to worry about. The company is losing money big time. Their revenue has fallen form $900 million to around $500-550 Million, I believe. That's is a lot of market share to lose. BTW, I have SP4805 and I love it.

well you must not be looking very hard :) ...

One can always tell what Alimentall sells. ;)

Infocus has a lot to worry about. The company is losing money big time. Their revenue has fallen form $900 million to around $500-550 Million, I believe. That's is a lot of market share to lose. BTW, I have SP4805 and I love it.

Revenue isn't important. Profitability is important. They've made some mistakes, but I'm sure they'll get back on it. Last year was such a boring projector year, I hardly bothered. I think I've sold more projectors in a week than I did all of last year, not that it's saying that much. With projectors, it's all about promoting them to people who hadn't considered them. You can literally sell as many as you want if you're excited about them (and I am!)

There are plenty of other good projectors, but I think IF is doing all the right things with this line. I'd love to see a 1080p projector at $6K or so in the same chassis. Of course, all the dealers have to pitch in. But exciting product means sales. So maybe they'll climb back up a few $million or 100. Remember though that home sales is still a small fraction of business sales. Besides, if they're really a $500M/year company, that's plenty big! Like I said, it's profitability, not revenue. I'm sure this will help them get it together. Besides, business sales (and retail prices) must be dropping as the current crop of projectors simply don't need to be replaced that often these days, so fewer units are probably being demanded and also, the advent of $1000 business projectors really lowers the gross revenue. People that needed to buy $2K-$3K projectors can now get away with a $1K projector just fine. They just have to scale themselves to market reality and keep chugging.

well you must not be looking very hard :) , a quick check of respected dealers websites shows the panny 900 can be had for under 2000 and with the rebate the cost would be closer to the 1500-1600 range alot less than the in76 asking price of 2999. so the panny IMO stacks up fairly well against a p.j. that is going for about double the money :cool: ...

The Panasonic is an LCD and my customers aren't interested in low contrast PJs. So, it doesn't matter. It's like saying a Hyundai is cheaper than an Audi, therefore the Audi isn't sellable. Contrast, color and clarity (real or perceived) is a big driving factor and this is were DLP out points LCD.

One can always tell what Alimentall sells. ;)

Thank god, I was starting to worry! ;)

I had an IN72 shipped out Tuesday - and it is sitting there unopened while I wait for other install pieces.


Krasumuzik is about to give us the break down on the IF72. Now that's just damn juicy, and the best news I've read in a week, can't wait. :)

I've searched this thread, but may have missed it. Does the IN76 have user adjuster gain and bias controls for red, green, & blue?

after reading about the IN76 not having the same dark chip as the 4805, I'm thinking of simply selling the 4805 for a newer IN72, so any Kras input would be most appreciated.

Yes RGB gain/offset are there (though I doubt you can do better than the factory greyscale even if you have proper calibration sensors - they certainly put me out of work there :() - in fact Bob posted the links to the manuals earlier. It is basically the same as previous Infocus menus less the TrueLife Faroudja adjustments.

The Panasonic is an LCD and my customers aren't interested in low contrast PJs. So, it doesn't matter. It's like saying a Hyundai is cheaper than an Audi, therefore the Audi isn't sellable. Contrast, color and clarity (real or perceived) is a big driving factor and this is were DLP out points LCD.


i won,t argue the point just pointing out the cost differential and if the price is worth the difference to some it is and to others it might not be,BTW my 4805 still is the best bang for the bux IMO:)

Revenue isn't important. Profitability is important. They've made some mistakes, but I'm sure they'll get back on it. Last year was such a boring projector year, I hardly bothered. I think I've sold more projectors in a week than I did all of last year, not that it's saying that much. With projectors, it's all about promoting them to people who hadn't considered them. You can literally sell as many as you want if you're excited about them (and I am!)

There are plenty of other good projectors, but I think IF is doing all the right things with this line. I'd love to see a 1080p projector at $6K or so in the same chassis. Of course, all the dealers have to pitch in. But exciting product means sales. So maybe they'll climb back up a few $million or 100. Remember though that home sales is still a small fraction of business sales. Besides, if they're really a $500M/year company, that's plenty big! Like I said, it's profitability, not revenue. I'm sure this will help them get it together. Besides, business sales (and retail prices) must be dropping as the current crop of projectors simply don't need to be replaced that often these days, so fewer units are probably being demanded and also, the advent of $1000 business projectors really lowers the gross revenue. People that needed to buy $2K-$3K projectors can now get away with a $1K projector just fine. They just have to scale themselves to market reality and keep chugging.

Or maybe it's just that.......

NEC RANKS FIRST AMONG NORTH AMERICAN PROJECTOR BRANDS IN PMA SURVEY; HITACHI AND MITSUBISHI ALSO SCORED STRONGLY

Product Quality, Availability, Price/Performance and On-Time Delivery,
and Responsive Support are Most Important Aspects in Resellers’ Minds

Menlo Park, CA – May 25, 2005. NEC had the top scores on 6 of the top 10 rated aspects of marketing support, products, and after-sale support related to resellers' sales of professional front data/video projectors. As a result NEC came out on top in the overall composite rating in the 10th annual survey conducted by Pacific Media Associates (PMA), the global leader in demand-side market information on large-screen displays. PMA's Annual Reseller Survey is the authoritative source of independent, unbiased ratings of large-screen displays manufacturers by professional resellers throughout North America.

“The market for front data/video projectors is more competitive than ever. Most resellers carry multiple product lines, so manufacturers have to do more than just make good products. They must provide compelling sales, marketing and technical support programs if they are to capture mindshare and market share at a reseller,” said Michael Abramson, who directs PMA's research on front projectors and was PMA's project manager for the Reseller Survey. “We found that aspects resellers considered most important in 2003 continued to be important in 2004 and will probably remain important going forward. The top manufacturers had strong scores in many individual aspects, but in addition to leading in 6 of the 10 most important aspects, NEC also had the highest composite scores in marketing support and after-sale support, and ranked near the top in product aspects. Other manufacturers also ranked highly in many individual aspects. Hitachi ranked number one or two in 4 of the 8 most important aspects. Mitsubishi, the highest-rated brand for the three previous years, was also strong, with the number one or two rating in 3 of the top 8 aspects,” adds Abramson.

The survey ranks 25 aspects of marketing support, products, and after-sale support according to their importance to resellers. Resellers then rated their key suppliers on each of these aspects. Ratings were based on a scale of 1 (very poor) to 5 (very good). Manufacturers scoring highly on the more important aspects posted higher overall composite scores more than those who scored well on less-important aspects. The report includes numerical ratings for each manufacturer for each aspect and manufacturers can learn if they are doing well on those aspects to which they have dedicated the most effort, and to see where they are lagging.

The two top-rated companies for the most important eight aspects are given below:

Product Quality/Reliability – Hitachi, NEC
Product Availability – Sanyo, Christie
Good Price/Performance – Panasonic, Toshiba
On-Time Delivery – Sanyo, Mitsubishi
Responsive Support Persons – NEC, Mitsubishi
Return / Repair Programs – Hitachi, NEC
Profit Contribution to Dealer – Mitsubishi, NEC and Hitachi (tied)
Knowledgeable Support Persons –Hitachi, NEC
The top two companies with the highest composite scores in the areas of marketing support, products, and after-sale support are given below.

Marketing Support – NEC, Mitsubishi
Products – Mitsubishi, Hitachi
After Sale Support – NEC, Hitachi

What does this report have to do with HT projectors? NEC is getting out of the HT projector biz - this report is on the projectors that ProA/V dealers buy - the folks that outfit large public venues with insanely bright, expensive heavy fixed installation projectors on huge screens.

Since every projector manufacturer runs each of their various market segment differently - these rated categories in one segment have nothing to do with other segments like HT. I have not seen Christie being a very 'available' vendor in the HT market! You just as well given us a report on government contract purchasing systems in the military simulator market - it would have been just as irrelevant to this thread.

Check the thread title - this is the "New Infocus lineup" thread....

"2003 continued to be important in 2004"

Check your calendar - it is 2006....

after reading about the IN76 not having the same dark chip as the 4805, I'm thinking of simply selling the 4805 for a newer IN72, so any Kras input would be most appreciated.

Huh? difference in the chips - do you mean DMD dimensions? Aside from more resolution, brightness, contrast - the IN76 and IN72 looked the same! Not sure what difference you are talking about here.


Are you sure you are not thinking about the dark chip being different in SP7210 and IN76?

I work on the house on weekends - so IN72 projector is still in it's box....

Thanks for asking Kras. You're right, I was confusing the chips of the 7210 and IN76. Also, I was under a false impression that the IN76 didn't have the same type of Dark Chip that the 4805 did and that even though the resolution of the IN76 is higher, the IN72 had a better black level because it retained the same chip as the 4805. Too many threads in my head I suppose :)

...What does this report have to do with HT projectors...

Geez... Give the guy a break! I'm sure that similar metrics still apply where the listed company makes HT projectors, and many of these companies do make HT products, even if you don't sell them. :rolleyes:

Huh? difference in the chips - do you mean DMD dimensions? Aside from more resolution, brightness, contrast - the IN76 and IN72 looked the same! Not sure what difference you are talking about here. Are you sure you are not thinking about the dark chip being different in SP7210 and IN76?

Hello kras,

I think what Martin might have actually been refereing to was the chip description in the Audioholics preview. Note the last sentance.

From Audioholics IN76 preview:
Now, this is important when it comes to home theater applications – while this new chip is capable of high performance, it is NOT designed to compete with the higher end standard size Dark Chip 2 or Dark Chip 3 DLP chips used in projectors like the Sharp ZXV2000 and InFocus SP7205 (Dark Chip 2) or Optoma H-79, BenQ PE8720, and InFocus SP 7210 (Dark Chip 3). First of all, the chip is physically smaller, which translates into lower brightness and more “screen door effect” (visible pixels) due to the lower fill factor.

Saying that there is more SDE on the new chip might cause some hesitancy in possible IN76 purchasers who had planned on upgrading from the 4805 that uses a DC2 dmd. I don't know if John Schuermann is correct in his assement of SDE on the new chip or not, but when reading this preview, folks are going to think that there is more SDE on the IN76 than there is on the 4805.

Saying that there is more SDE on the new chip might cause some hesitancy in possible IN76 purchasers who had planned on upgrading from the 4805 that uses a DC2 dmd. I don't know if John Schuermann is correct in his assement of SDE on the new chip or not, but when reading this preview, folks are going to think that there is more SDE on the IN76 than there is on the 4805.
I hope people aren't thinking that the IN76 has more SDE than the 4805! It clearly won't. The concern is whether the IN76 has more SDE than the older 720p HD2+ DC2 projectors.

I would invite anyone to go to cine4home.com and compare the SDE of the Mits HC3000 (new chip) with that of the older HD2+ PJs. If anything, the SDE on the Toshiba MT700 looks worse. Of course screenshots can be deceiving, so a definitive judgement can't be made based solely on those...

I'm not too worried about this statement:

"First of all, the chip is physically smaller, which translates into lower brightness and more “screen door effect” (visible pixels) due to the lower fill factor."

The IN76 is likely to be brighter than the HC3000 @ D65. The HD72 has a white segment and by all accounts is amongst the brightest projectors in this price segment, but I still expect the IN76 to be in the ballpark. The 7205 and 7210 are very bright projectors so I don't really expect (nor would I consider it a detriment to my own particular setup) if the IN76 was slightly less bright. Remember that black levels increase with brightness for a given contrast ratio, not to mention the visibility of a lot of other artifacts and viewing strain. I like to calibrate my setup to good viewing in the dark levels, so the ability to light up 106-115" diag in the dark is all I'm looking for and I'm certain the IN76 can do that well.
As far as the DMD having more screendoor than the previous HD2+ DC2 chips (as opposed to HD2+ DC3) I'm again not very concerned - the HD72 and HC3000 use this same DMD and there have been no comments about excessive SDE on these projectors. Unless viewed simultaneously / side by side with a 7205, I doubt the difference in SDE would be noticeable, unlike the difference in SDE from a non-smooth screen LCD such as the HS51/51A or Z4.

My main concerns are differences in contrast and black levels when compared to the HC3000 and the upcoming Z3000, street prices, and placement issues (less offset would be better - from the preview the offset sounds just right for my setup.) Dithering in dark colors is also a slight concern, since I won't notice it much @ 1.7-2x screen distance. If I sat at 1.5 or less it would be a much larger concern for me, as would screen door.

What does this report have to do with HT projectors? NEC is getting out of the HT projector biz - this report is on the projectors that ProA/V dealers buy - the folks that outfit large public venues with insanely bright, expensive heavy fixed installation projectors on huge screens.

Since every projector manufacturer runs each of their various market segment differently - these rated categories in one segment have nothing to do with other segments like HT. I have not seen Christie being a very 'available' vendor in the HT market! You just as well given us a report on government contract purchasing systems in the military simulator market - it would have been just as irrelevant to this thread.

Check the thread title - this is the "New Infocus lineup" thread....

"2003 continued to be important in 2004"

Check your calendar - it is 2006....

Actually, the report came out in May of last year. For the record, nothing is developed or manufactured in the display market without analysis from Pacific Media Reports to support the market trends, including home theater. What is significant to note from this report is that the driving force behind projector development continues to be the commercial market. This has further significance as one notes the extreme fall off in business at InFocus, their huge turnover in corporate management and the general impression by the vast majority of professional dealers that InFocus just doesn't cut it anymore. Does that have anything to do with HT. Absolutely, yes, in that as revenue falls off (and it IS important) R&D funding, marketing and many other facets of a company are reduced. Not that R&D is that great of an area for InFocus any longer anyway. Most of the real revolutionary technological improvements come from other businesses and organizations and is simply licensed back to IF, including case design (you didn't really believe that InFocus actually designed this on their own, did you?) Yes, this report concerns HT because these same companies not only make these insanely large and bright projectors you mention, but they also develop and market the exact same products that IF does for corporate, education, healthcare and hospitality. These are the CORE products of InFocus, not home theater projectors. If you believe otherwise, I have a primrose path I'd like to lead you down. HT accounts for a small fraction of the overall business at IF. If these other electronics giants (NEC, SHARP, HITACHI, SANYO, PANASONIC, SONY, EPSON, MITSUBISHI, etc..) continue to put the dollars behind their programs to meet efficiencies of scale, provide superior customer service, support and build quality, then YES, the article has everything to do with HT. If the trend continues to shift momentum away from IF toward these other companies for the CORE business of IF, then it is inevitable that IF will either become a niche player, will be sold or will fold .

However, as you say, the article has nothing to do with HT and is totally irrelevant. :rolleyes:

Geez... Give the guy a break! I'm sure that similar metrics still apply where the listed company makes HT projectors, and many of these companies do make HT products, even if you don't sell them. :rolleyes:

All of the companies listed in that report are clearly superior to Infocus as far as their AVPRO market - Infocus only has a few models that participate in the bottom of that market - they in no way compare to the breadth of the NEC offerings or the power of the Christie projectors. That post was nothing but an irrelevant thread cr*p - and an old one at that - and the poster knows it.

By the way - I also sold NEC HT projector - my comment has nothing to do with what I sell - despite your uninformed implication.

If I am going to participate in this thread - it is going to stay on topic - which is technical and support information for those interested - "Infocus New Lineup". I could go back to not posting if you prefer and just let this thread sink just like it did last month due to a lack of informed information - the only reason I even came back is because of the people PM me saying they respected my input despite the one of out hundreds that do not.

So I suggest those who are not interested in this topic - they can just not read the thread - and do everybody else a favor and not post to the thread. Start your own threads on topics that have nothing to do with this one. That is what the forum is for. And if I want to debate the other topics with you - I will post there.

Hello kras,

I think what Martin might have actually been refereing to was the chip description in the Audioholics preview. Note the last sentance.



Saying that there is more SDE on the new chip might cause some hesitancy in possible IN76 purchasers who had planned on upgrading from the 4805 that uses a DC2 dmd. I don't know if John Schuermann is correct in his assement of SDE on the new chip or not, but when reading this preview, folks are going to think that there is more SDE on the IN76 than there is on the 4805.


I thought the SP4805 was the smaller 0.55" DMD and not the 0.9" - it is my understanding the IN72 is the same chip. I cannot find a reference for it - but this is one of the reasons for the bigger lens on the SP72xx series. The IN76 certainly does not have worse SDE than the SP4805!

In fact when we side by sided the IN76 vs. the IN72 - even at far viewing distances - the perception was of more solid color (if that makes sense) - and we finally realized this was the greater amount of pixels and likely fill ratio diff.

J.S. comparison of SP7210 and IN76 was entirely valid - but as sethk pointed out - you have to weigh these videophile differences against the seating distances and the capacity of your wallet! If the SP7210 did not have a better picture than the IN76 - then there is no way Infocus would keep it on the market at over 2x the price! Just like the IN76 is 3x the price of the SP5000 - the IN76 is the SP5000 replacement - not the SP7210 replacement.

Of course the SP4805 is not remaining on the market for long because the IN72 is it's replacement. I guess I will have to side by side them and compare SDE - I want to scrutinize the new lens anyways....

Geez... Give the guy a break! I'm sure that similar metrics still apply where the listed company makes HT projectors, and many of these companies do make HT products, even if you don't sell them. :rolleyes:
Don't be so sure. I suggest that you go back and read post #534 of this thread.
In all seriousness though, I'm personally tired of reading theses kinds of posts that have nothing to do with the performance of or pertain to the pj's themselves. Infocus isn't going away any time soon.

Why don't you give kras a break? He's defending a company that he believe puts out a better product? He is a stand up guy and even Bob Williams has pointed out earlier in this thread, "kras tells it like he sees it, be it good or bad".

If Infocus screws up something in the design of one of their pj's, kras will be one of the first to tell you about it. What more could you want from someone than that?

Also, it's not like he is hiding the fact that sells and installs the Infocus brand. And unlike some posters here on AVS, he will only sell to you if you live in his local dealer area and never sells pj's online.

With a broken right hand in a cast, this one handed typing is not allowing me to keep up with the posts here. :p

The IN76 certainly does not have worse SDE than the SP4805! Yes, the 4805 uses the 0.55" dmd and since it is also called the DarkChip 2, I was just pointing out what some folks will infer when reading that article.

I could go back to not posting if you prefer and just let this thread sink just like it did last month due to a lack of informed information - the only reason I even came back is because of the people PM me saying they respected my input despite the one of out hundreds that do not.

So I suggest those who are not interested in this topic - they can just not read the thread - and do everybody else a favor and not post to the thread. Start your own threads on topics that have nothing to do with this one. That is what the forum is for. And if I want to debate the other topics with you - I will post there.

If you'd like to take your ball and go home (again) that's your prerogative. There is plenty of useful information on this thread (with the exception of a few hissy fits ;)). InFocus' participation has been invaluable, and there will be much more pertinent, unbiased information available as users actually get their hands on these products.

Virtually all of the threads on this forum take a few tangents. Some posters just think a little more outside of the box than others. Last time I looked, it was up to the moderators to determine if any tangents were appropriate.

Take your own advice and simply ignore posts that you either don't understand, or that in your opinion, don't belong in this thread. Most of us take something away from the vast majority of these posts. When we don't, we either ask questions, or we keep our 'mouths' shut, but those with even an ounce of common courtesy aren't presumptuous enough to order others how, what, where or when to post.

Smithfarmer, that was exactly what was confusing me. JeffKB, Kras, thanks for the clarifications.



Bubbawilly, please give the argument a rest now, your point is abundantly clear.

If you'd like to take your ball and go home (again) that's your prerogative. There is plenty of useful information on this thread (with the exception of a few hissy fits ;)). InFocus' participation has been invaluable, and there will be much more pertinent, unbiased information available as users actually get their hands on these products.

Virtually all of the threads on this forum take a few tangents. Some posters just think a little more outside of the box than others. Last time I looked, it was up to the moderators to determine if any tangents were appropriate.

Take your own advice and simply ignore posts that you either don't understand, or that in your opinion, don't belong in this thread. Most of us take something away from the vast majority of these posts. When we don't, we either ask questions, or we keep our 'mouths' shut, but those with even an ounce of common courtesy aren't presumptuous enough to order others how, what, where or when to post.

Thanks, much more diplomatic than I was about to post, but yours said it so very well that I decided not to discuss elevated self opinions and egos. :)

Simply can't wait for the side to side of the SP4805 and the IF72.

Simply can't wait for the side to side of the SP4805 and the IF72.
I'd be very surprised if there were any noticeable PQ difference between the two. Even still, if I were buying today I'd buy the IN72 over the 4805 in an instant, even though it's more money.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 4805 in an almost unnatural man-machine kind of way, but I would gladly pay the difference to have a quieter projector, with a more reliable and longer lasting color wheel, less chance of dust blobs, and no need to clean the color wheel every 500 hours and risk busting your PJ. These advantages are WELL worth the extra $$ IMO....

I agree. It wouldn't make sense to move from a 4805 to a 72. Any picture difference would be slight, mainly just operational issues from what I can tell. Same res, same contrast. Probably the very same chip.

I love the 4805 in an almost unnatural man-machine kind of way

Outside of the bedroom, you should never be so emotionally attached to a powered device! :D

I'm guessing there could be a small difference in the scaling capabilities of the Pixelworks DNX chip vs Faroujda.

I agree. It wouldn't make sense to move from a 4805 to a 72. Any picture difference would be slight, mainly just operational issues from what I can tell. Same res, same contrast. Probably the very same chip.

How about comparisons of the IN 74 with the 5700. Although I am quite aware that the IN 74 is newly released, has anyone actually been in a postion to view both within a short time?

Thanks.

I also agree there probably won't be a difference. I still want Krasmusik to smoke it out though. It would be nice to hear that he found and addition 10% contrast or a tad deeper blacks or something other than just the fan noise, although I love a quite PJ also and that alone is worth $100+ to me but not $300. I'm also curious what his take on the IN74 is as the contrast is noticeably higher than the IN72 and it can be had for I bet for $300-$400 more. And with HD-DVD's on the way it's extra resolution will pay off. For once the Matterhorn may have a Value Claim to Fame. I'm damn near talking myself into it. If either PJ has worst blacks as a result of the raised brightness then SP4805 it is. Can't wait a day longer.

...although I love a quite PJ also and that alone is worth $100+ to me but not $300.
Did I also mention no light spill with the IN72?

It's not just the noise level, it's the other significant improvements I mentioned. The sum total of the benefits more than justifies the cost increase IMO. Just some honest advice from someone who's lived with the 4805 for 21 months. Once again, it sounds like I'm unhappy with the 4805 - I'm not. We enjoy a loving (yet platonic ;)) relationship. :D

Did I also mention no light spill with the IN72?

It's not just the noise level, it's the other significant improvements I mentioned. The sum total of the benefits more than justifies the cost increase IMO. Just some honest advice from someone who's lived with the 4805 for 21 months. Once again, it sounds like I'm unhappy with the 4805 - I'm not. We enjoy a loving (yet platonic ;)) relationship. :D

While preferred no light spill is no a huge deal to me as it barely makes it back to the screen if at all. I agree though it's very tempting but with a used SP4805 the difference could reach as high as $500 and then you have to stop and think. We just need to see some quality reviews so we can start to debate the issue. And it shouldn't be long with units in peoples hands. I just hope they do the right thing and realize their job comes 2nd to their responsiblities on these forums. :)

While preferred no light spill is no a huge deal to me as it barely makes it back to the screen if at all.
You're correct - the light spill from the front grill of the 4805 doesn't really have an impact on the screen. What it does do is light up your ceiling around the projector - at least if you have a white ceiling. It's been a non-factor for me since I painted my ceiling dark brown, but it definitely was an occasional annoyance when I had a white ceiling. The opening of LOTR:FOTR certainly suffered for it - I could see the illuminated ceiling in my peripheral vision.

Hey - the 4805 has been thrilling first time PJ owners for almost 2 years now. If you're on a tight budget I wouldn't hesitate at all to get one. It's still a great projector that delivers where it counts. :)

I'm with you Jeff on either of the 2. It'll be a little hard puting cash down and a SP4805 with these brand new ones just out of the gates. It's all in the reviews we get, 30 days from now will know how the new PJ's perform. Comments like image has no real difference from the SP4805 will slow me down on them. But Sharper, and a tad better blacks is going to be hard not to hear. Jeez can't someone take off work to provide us with the info? Whats the world coming to. :( :)

I saw IN74 to a store and it had dust blobs. (Only one day out of the box!!!!!!!!)
I thought that the new Infocus had sealed the optical part.

TRG, it sounds like they're saying that the projector will *sync* to a 48Hz source, but it will *not* take a 60Hz film-based DVD and drop the extra frame to make it the proper 48Hz. What do they call that again, reverse 3:2 pulldown or something?

I haven't seen this switch on the IN74, but I can look. Physical? Or you mean on the menu? I ran it off a PC and a Mac last night via DVI and it worked great.

Ahhh, sounds good.

Yes, Bob said it was a physical toggle switch built in (IN76 and 74EX only). Not in any menu - just an outside toggle. The reason I am making a big deal is because it was hell on earth not knowing the real RGB numbers (but most of us were within a few clicks till Bob straightened us out). For awhile, many of us were using the 7205 numbers - which were wrong for the 4805!

Were you running vmr9 or overlay, and if vmr9, were your blacks and whites all messed up? If overlay, and everything was peachy, then the INxx must all be at PC defaults. Not bad, but Studio DVI defaults would be better since they are now TOTALLY HT pjs. Cool thing is, Bob always provides the numbers!

Yes, Bob said it was a physical toggle switch built in (IN76 and 74EX only). Not in any menu - just an outside toggle. The reason I am making a big deal is because it was hell on earth not knowing the real RGB numbers (but most of us were within a few clicks till Bob straightened us out). For awhile, many of us were using the 7205 numbers - which were wrong for the 4805!

The toggle is in the menus under "color space", and the two settings are "RGB" and "RGB Video". RGB is for PC levels (0-255), and RGB Video is for studio levels (16-240). There is also an "auto" setting that will try to determine the proper range based on the input type.

Bob

Thank you for the repy!

Woops! I guess I thought toggle meant a physical switch. Thanks for the clarification!!

How about comparisons of the IN 74 with the 5700. Although I am quite aware that the IN 74 is newly released, has anyone actually been in a postion to view both within a short time?.

I have a 5700 being traded in for an IN76. I'll take a look for you, but the 2x contrast will not allow it to be much of a tussle.

IMO, the key determining factors in PQ are, somewhat in order:

Contrast
SDE
Resolution
Scaling/processing

If SDE and resolution are the same, then the IN74 wins handily based on contrast and a bit of help from processing. I can't imagine the SDE is worse with the contrast being so much better. It would seem to me that they must have scaled the SDE with the size of the chip. Otherwise, how are they getting such good contrast?

It would seem to me that they must have scaled the SDE with the size of the chip.Are you trying to say that they must have "reduced the distance between the mirrors" when they redesigned the chip?

That would be my guess. They'd have had to scale the mirrors, the hinges, everything else. Just a guess though.

Kras -

There is one thing you could clear up about the new IF projectors. I was confused about something I saw on this forum that indicated that the "ceiling plate" was the same as the 4805. Now I assume that meant that the "projector plate" was the same. Who would even care if a ceiling plate for a mount would be the same. But at the same time, I found it hard to believe that the three screw holes on the new projectors were in the same layout as on the 4805 ... since the new line is so much larger.

If, on the other hand, the screw hole layout is the same, then all us 4805 users could upgrade without purchasing a new mount. If it is the same, is the "standoff" distance on the front hole also the same (on the 4805, it is slightly greater than the other two)?

Can you shed any light?

Hank Brown
Willow Grove, PA

If, on the other hand, the screw hole layout is the same, then all us 4805 users could upgrade without purchasing a new mount.
I wish that were the case. :)

Unless you have a universal mount, you'll need to get a new projector plate. The screen calculator spreadsheet Bob published earlier in the thread also has an install diagram of the projector, and the mounting points on the new platform are very different than the X1/4805.

I have been filled with a strange, vague anxiety lately. That kind of feeling you get sometimes on vacation when you think you left the water running at home.
This weekend, I finally realized what was bothering me - what I had to do to settle my restless soul - I had to give my money to Bob Williams.
So, last night I ordered a IN76 directly from InFocus. Today, I got an email saying it was backordered - so not sure if it is really shipping yet in any sort of quantity. And I probably could have shopped around a bit or waited for prices to drop. But I feel at peace with my decision after waiting for the Z4 to come out... then deciding I better wait for the IN76... because this is FINALLY the last home theater upgrade I will need to make myself content... yep, this is my last materialistic video splurge... gonna just enjoy it and watch a movie or two when it comes... not going to endlessly compare it to other things.... yep, this is it, don't need anything else... yep... so... ummm.... anyone know when the PlayStation 3 is coming out. ;)

Mike

For those interested (maybe I posted this earlier), I've found that the Vogel Evolution PJ mount to be the best one of the many we've tried for being easy to mount, discrete and flexible enough for any PJ we throw at it. Mine is holding up a huge Sharp 9000 right now, but the smaller IN76 should drop right on.

Thanks Jeff -

That certainly sounds like what I would have expected. But the post I saw was confusing.

One of the things that has amazed me about these products ... and I mean the IF line of products ... is that you read review after review ... and each one has to point out some negatives about the projectors ... and you read them and you worry ... "will it be good enough?" "Is it worth the money?" ... and you agonize over the purchase ... and then you buy it. And BY GOD, it's fabulous.

I can't wait to get one of these new puppies ... but my trusty ole 4805 has provided many wonderful hours of HT for family and friends.

Hank Brown
Willow Grove, PA

If you guys haven't seen it, Jason posted a Sticky above that AVS if offering special intro pricing on the new INxx projectors.

And he mentioned that he'll be reviewing IN76 next week! That's what I'm waiting for. Although, his mini review of the Samsung 710AE has me wondering if I should spend a little more. Has anyone here been lucky enough to see both of these projectors?

Why can't this hobby be easy?

If you guys haven't seen it, Jason posted a Sticky above that AVS if offering special intro pricing on the new INxx projectors.

So THERE! - take that all you guys complaining about the $2999 price! :p

Whoops, I think I was one of the guys complaining... Uhhh...nevermind.

If you guys haven't seen it, Jason posted a Sticky above that AVS if offering special intro pricing on the new INxx projectors.


he he... within 24 hours of me finally ordering directly from InFocus! :o

he he... within 24 hours of me finally ordering directly from InFocus! :o

Cancel the order and save some money!

Cancel the order and save some money!

Just did... :) Kinda hard to do since the nice InFocus customer service rep said my order would ship by the end of the week if I kept it... will have to check out the timing on the IN76 for the powerbuy when I call tomorrow...

Bob - I promise you will get my money eventually! :p

Mike

Sorry if I missed it, but will using the IN76 at higher altitude (5800') require running in high fan mode?

If you guys haven't seen it, Jason posted a Sticky above that AVS if offering special intro pricing on the new INxx projectors...

Is the AVS Membership required, or just being a registered forum member enough to qualify?

I was only a couple steps behind sunol - all ready to place an order for an IN76 directly from infocus.com this evening. :D

joe

Well, just dropped in the IN72 where the 7205 used to be. I have to say, even the IN72 may do a few things better than the 7205. With HD material, there was pretty amazing clarity. I think the Pixelworks processor is doing something here to give the INs a bit of a performance boost. Now there were a few times when I saw a few things that may have been worse than the 7205 (resolution aside), but I don't know, if the IN76 shows the same improvements, I think I'd have to say that it is probably better than the 7205. In fact, with the added contrast, I'm not sure how the IN76 *couldn't* be better. I never did look at HD material with the IN74 and it just went back to InFocus. I think the IN72 is a *clear* improvement over the 4805, but not enough to make a lateral move.

It's starting to pop up that the IN72 is more than just a few small improvements over the SP4805. I knew I wasn't going to escape this situation mentally stable....

I think the IN72 is a *clear* improvement over the 4805, but not enough to make a lateral move.


Would you have said the same thing about going from an X1 to a 4805? I only ask because I was told the same thing, that the 4805 was better, but not enough to upgrade from the X1. As soon as I fired up the 4805, I couldn't have been any happier.

I'll tell you what, too, just having a much quieter projector is a lot of incentive to upgrade.

How quiet does the IN72 sound?

Having worked on all 3 projectors, in my opinion the step-up from the X1 to the 4805 is much larger than the 4805 to the IN72.

Having worked on all 3 projectors, in my opinion the step-up from the X1 to the 4805 is much larger than the 4805 to the IN72.

Not a problem as most didn't expect that much of a jump. The IN72 looks nice as there are alot of important refinements from the SP4805. It's just nice to hear that the image has taken a nice little bump up. I knew the SP4805 was way more refined then the X1 and never expected the IN72 to make that type of jump, but it's sugar to our ears that it has made a little jump, even if it's only 5%-10%. My question would be are the Blacks any Better or is the tad jump in contrast in the upper end with the brighter output. It doesn't feel to me the IN72 was a money move only to make it cheaper, it looks like you've delivered on offering a little more out of the 480P DC2 DMD. Can't wait to hear more.

I agree with Bob. The 16/9 panel and added resolution and the 4x color wheel (the 4800/X1 gave me eye strain) and better contrast are more significant with the 4800/X1 to 4805 than the nice, but more subtle refinements added going from the 4805 to IN72.

Besides, at the time, going to a 5700 or 7200/7205 was *far* more expensive, leaving the 4805 the only affordable jump. The jump to the IN74/76 really isn't that expensive, but would be well worth the extra money. I think the IN72 really is for the first time buyer or for those that have 4800s or earlier generation models that are really looking dated.

Sorry if I missed it, but will using the IN76 at higher altitude (5800') require running in high fan mode?

Here's a quote from Bob Williams from earlier in the thread (post #190):
The fan speed does adjust based on the internal temperature of the projector. We make sure all of our internal components can handle 10,000 feet altitude for design margin above the 7,500 feet reported in the data sheet. However, because for you we'd be in the design margin I cannot recommend the projector for your environment. I believe it would be fine but cannot guarantee it.

The fans will turn up quite a bit at that altitude, but I do not know how that will compare to the sea level performance nor how it compares to a 7210.
He was answering a question from a poster who lives at 7600', so I'm not sure how you would be affected at 5800'.

Thanks! I did miss that post.

I guess that I'll wait to hear from others just how much the fan speed (noise) increases at higher elevations.

Bob,

How does the IN76 handle 1080i/p signals? Does it downscale to 540 and then upscale to 720? Or can it handle downscaling to 720 directly?

Pixelworks in IN76 de-interlaces 1080i content and then scales to 720p, does not "bob" it to 540p:

From Bob:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6908524&&#post6908524

I'm very surprised that we haven't had our first official owner review yet. I know at least some IN76's were sold, and I'm sure some IN72 and 74's as well. If somebody out there has one, let us know what you think!

On a different topic, I know Kras mentioned it a few pages back, but I would ask the mods to consider making this thread a sticky and either rename it or else create a new one with this one linked. After all, the projectors are shipping and the post volume on this thread is easily just as much as the HC3000, PE7700, and MT700 stickies. Besides, there is currently a sticky about AVS selling these, so IMO it makes sense to have the informational thread sticky as well. :)

I do have a question maybe Bob can answer. I'm getting some problems with the IN72 in getting a proper 16x9 format. I'm losing about 10 pixels either above or below that aren't being used. I mean, 10 or so that *should* be there. The image doesn't fill the vertical dimension of my screen. But then when I move the image around, it just changes where the pixels are missing. The IN74 had some similar things where I couldn't quite get it right.

I'm very surprised that we haven't had our first official owner review yet. I know at least some IN76's were sold, and I'm sure some IN72 and 74's as well. If somebody out there has one, let us know what you think!...

In the "first projector" thread, user "RonG" stated he just received his IN72 about 2 weeks after pre-ordering. No technical breakdowns - just says he's really happy with it.

Then again, we've just had some more detailed firsthand report wrt IN72 in this thread. I, too, am very eager to hear some real user experiences with IN76.

joe (sorry for not putting in direct links to the aforementioned post ;) )

I am having difficulty in determining how much further the IN76 needs to be above my screen. Can someone please help?

Projector throw = 14'
Screen height = 87"
The mount will be attached to a 9' ceiling so realistically, the lense can be no higher than ~8.5'.

If and when someone responds, please provide me with a formula so that I can calculate myself. I'm used to the Optoma formula = H' = L x Tan (6.52deg) but am confused at the IN76 chart. Thanks in advance. This will determine if I use this over the Samsung H710.

I have a constant hieght setup with a panamorph. I need to know if the IN76 will do the vertical stretch(LETTERBOX) for 2.35 material through the M1 or HDMI inputs form a 720p signal. I just got the oppo dvd player, and i had to update the firmware on my 4805 for the letterbox mode to work for 720p.
Does anyone know?

I think the Pixelworks processor is doing something here to give the INs a bit of a performance boost.

Ya, click on see DNX here (http://www.pixelworks.com/#) to see the demo of this new processor at work... :)

In the "first projector" thread, user "RonG" stated he just received his IN72 about 2 weeks after pre-ordering. No technical breakdowns - just says he's really happy with it.

We're going to have to penalize RonG for posting his review in a run-of-the mill, generic "Which Projector Should I Buy?" thread and not bestow upon him the honor of first owner review! :D

I have a constant hieght setup with a panamorph. I need to know if the IN76 will do the vertical stretch(LETTERBOX) for 2.35 material through the M1 or HDMI inputs form a 720p signal. I just got the oppo dvd player, and i had to update the firmware on my 4805 for the letterbox mode to work for 720p.
Does anyone know?
The answer is yes:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7065326&&#post7065326

I am having difficulty in determining how much further the IN76 needs to be above my screen. Can someone please help?

Projector throw = 14'
Screen height = 87"
The mount will be attached to a 9' ceiling so realistically, the lense can be no higher than ~8.5'.

If and when someone responds, please provide me with a formula so that I can calculate myself. I'm used to the Optoma formula = H' = L x Tan (6.52deg) but am confused at the IN76 chart. Thanks in advance. This will determine if I use this over the Samsung H710.
The formula for the offset (from the IN76 install spreadsheet) is just simply 15.59% of screen height. You take your screen height and multiply by .1559. For a 87" tall screen (yikes!) that would mean your top of screen would be about 13.5" below the center of your lens. If you made a typo and actually meant 87" WIDE screen, than your offset would be about 7.6".

Not directing this to anyone in particular, but a lot of this info has already been covered in the thread. The "Search this Thread" function at the top of the page is your friend. :)

Hooray! I put my order in for an IN76 with AVS today. Jason said that it should ship out late this week or early next week.

I can't wait to play with it! It should be an upgrade in every fashion from the old 4805.

Hooray! I put my order in for an IN76 with AVS today. Jason said that it should ship out late this week or early next week.

I can't wait to play with it! It should be an upgrade in every fashion from the old 4805.

Thanks for indirectly answering my question :D . I guess AVS Club Membership isn't required. I was going to call anyway. Gosh-darn day job got in the way! :D

joe

The formula for the offset (from the IN76 install spreadsheet) is just simply 15.59% of screen height. You take your screen height and multiply by .1559. For a 87" tall screen (yikes!) that would mean your top of screen would be about 13.5" below the center of your lens. If you made a typo and actually meant 87" WIDE screen, than your offset would be about 7.6".

Not directing this to anyone in particular, but a lot of this info has already been covered in the thread. The "Search this Thread" function at the top of the page is your friend. :)

I really appreciate this. What I meant to say is that I wanted confirmation. After reading through the entire thread, it bacame obvious to me that there was some initial questioning with regards to the actual offset.

My screen is a 123" diagonal (60"H x 107"W) stewart Firehawk which the bottom is going to be 27" off the floor. Thus, 60" high + 27" = 87" to the top of the viewable area. Now, thanks to your confirmation, I know that the projector and its fixed offset will have the center of its lense located at 87" + 13.5" = 100.5". This will work with my 9' ceiling which is a hooray for me if I choose this projector over the H710.

I really appreciate this. What I meant to say is that I wanted confirmation. After reading through the entire thread, it bacame obvious to me that there was some initial questioning with regards to the actual offset.

My screen is a 123" diagonal (60"H x 107"W) stewart Firehawk which the bottom is going to be 27" off the floor. Thus, 60" high + 27" = 87" to the top of the viewable area. Now, thanks to your confirmation, I know that the projector and its fixed offset will have the center of its lense located at 87" + 13.5" = 100.5". This will work with my 9' ceiling which is a hooray for me if I choose this projector over the H710.

The math is still a bit off - your screen is 60" high, so the offset is 15.59 % of that, approx 10 inches

The math is still a bit off - your screen is 60" high, so the offset is 15.59 % of that, approx 10 inches

I'm totally confused and am beginning to think that I'm over-engineering this whole projector placement.

I thought I had to take into account where the top of my screen was in relation to the floor for projector placement. If this is the case, I may even be able to make the HD72 work. I apologize and hope that my mistake will keep others from repeating it.

Mitch you would only need to know how far from the floor if you were table mounting the projector.

Yes with a 9' ceiling you have additional choices.

So the offset on the IN76 will be (projector mounted inverted from ceiling) 10" .... so you need a mount that will place the center of the lens at 11" below the ceiling so that the offset and lens position add up to the 21" below the ceiling that you need for your currently mounted screen.

Will the new IN72 use the same ND2 62mm filter as the 4805?

Is the HCCV screen material still a good choice for the IN72?

Would a DVI > M1-D cable have any advantage over a straight DVI cable used with a DVI > M1-D adapter?

While using a HDMI cable out of a HD Satellite box to the IN72, since I will not need sound to the proj., will I still be able to use a digital out of the Sat box for sound going to my audio receiver?

George -bub

Appreciate the help (I've read darn near every post in the, now 3, 4805 threads but my memory fails me and the search function of web boards, while somewhat useful, really suck).

While using a HDMI cable out of a HD Satellite box to the IN72, since I will not need sound to the proj., will I still be able to use a digital out of the Sat box for sound going to my audio receiver?

George -bub

Appreciate the help (I've read darn near every post in the, now 3, 4805 threads but my memory fails me and the search function of web boards, while somewhat useful, really suck).

Cannot answer the first two, but yes if you are using an HD-Tivo you can ouput video via the HDMI port to your projector and sound from the digital optical port to your receiver.....

This is how I have mine hooked up and it works fine. I have also used this technique with the Hughes H-10 and the RCA-DTC-210.

Hooray! I put my order in for an IN76 with AVS today. Jason said that it should ship out late this week or early next week.

I can't wait to play with it! It should be an upgrade in every fashion from the old 4805.

I placed an order with Jason as well. I added a Chief RPA-U Projector Mount in black. My first front projection unit. I am "upgrading" from a 50" Toshiba (50h80). Very excited, but nervous on how to install the beast!!

Bub, I can't imagine why the HCCV wouldn't still be one of the best screen material choices for the IN72. My decision to use the DaLIte HCCV was one of the best choices I've made.

I placed an order with Jason as well. I added a Chief RPA-U Projector Mount in black. My first front projection unit. I am "upgrading" from a 50" Toshiba (50h80). Very excited, but nervous on how to install the beast!!

Ahzroe

Congrats!! Dude, there is nothing more freaking exciting than when the PJ arrives and you fire it up on some off color wall with wires everywhere, and popcorn thingies everywhere, and the WAF nagging about dinner as you sit there staring at the picture on your purple wall and think how you can't believe you will actually have an 8 ft image that looks awesome ;) . I'm jealous, but very happy for you.

And believe you me, if I can install my 4805 and screen, then ANYBODY can do it. Just take your time, make your measurements, triple check your measurements, and so on!!

Congrats!! Dude, there is nothing more freaking exciting than when the PJ arrives and you fire it up on some off color wall with wires everywhere, and popcorn thingies everywhere, and the WAF nagging about dinner as you sit there staring at the picture on your purple wall and think how you can't believe you will actually have an 8 ft image that looks awesome ;)
LOL! I thought I was the only one that did that :D

Hi- sorry, this is a loooong thread to read all the way through so I'm just going to jump in:

Has the IN76 shipped yet? Has anyone seen it and how does/should it compare to the other 720 DLP already out??

It seems the 72, 74, and 76 all use the same lamp. Lamp MSRP seem very low compared to other infocus models at MSRP $249.
Alas, looks like that price is not to be. The MSRP is now listed at $399 on the InFocus webpage (http://store.infocus.com/escalate/store/DetailPage?pls=infocus&bc=infocus&tab=desc&pc=SP-LAMP-025&). I was a little psyched about the $249 price - thought we may be seeing the dawn of new pricing with PJ lamps. Guess not.... :(

LOL! I thought I was the only one that did that :D

me, too :D

Hi- sorry, this is a loooong thread to read all the way through so I'm just going to jump in:

Has the IN76 shipped yet? Has anyone seen it and how does/should it compare to the other 720 DLP already out??
Hi Fred - the IN76 has just started shipping, though very few places have any stock yet. First hand accounts of the IN76 are pretty rare at this point, but here's some dealer reviews:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/InFocusIN76DLPprojector.php

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7315781&&#post7315781

Thanks for those links, Jeff

Hey, the IN76 can actually support 2 digital inputs- I can hook up the DVD player via HDMI and the PC similtaniously! It's about time. Sounds like it will be quiet too. I have to wonder whether its performance will warrant paying close to full price now as it's hitting the street vs. the Optoma which is selling under $2K...

Ahzroe

Congrats!! Dude, there is nothing more freaking exciting than when the PJ arrives and you fire it up on some off color wall with wires everywhere, and popcorn thingies everywhere, and the WAF nagging about dinner as you sit there staring at the picture on your purple wall and think how you can't believe you will actually have an 8 ft image that looks awesome ;) .

You forgot the bedsheets over the windows. :)

Are all of the new Infocus projectors supposed to share this thread? I can see the IN72 and IN76 having huge followings in the coming months -- they really ought to have their own spots now that they are officially shipping.

Not sure what to do with the IN74 -- maybe it could share thread space with one of the siblings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkim5453
In the "first projector" thread, user "RonG" stated he just received his IN72 about 2 weeks after pre-ordering. No technical breakdowns - just says he's really happy with it.

We're going to have to penalize RonG for posting his review in a run-of-the mill, generic "Which Projector Should I Buy?" thread and not bestow upon him the honor of first owner review!

Sorry, everyone but I was so excited about the new pj that I just dropped a quick note at the first section I saw a reference to the IN72's.

Well after a proper ceiling install and a bit of calibration I am impressed with the performance of this unit. I've had a Piano 3100 for about 4 years and it was getting alittle difficult to watch after viewing HD on my 42" Plasma in the family room. So I pre-ordered the IN72 direct from Infocus about 3 weeks ago after I found out that CF wouldn't honor the discounted price they had mistakenly printed in their recent catalog.

Anyway, back to the projector, I was very concerned when I found the projector waiting for me a week ago in the living room in what appeared to be the inner box of what you would expect to be double boxed for shipment of such a delicate piece of electronics. My concern increased as I opened the thin cardboard box to find the pj clam shelled between two non styrafoamed molded plastic end caps. I couldn't power the thing up fast enough to find out if it was DOA!! Surprisingly everything was safe and sound but I was very alarmed at the packaging to say the least.

I also order the Infocus ceiling mount because the Piano mount wasn't compatible. I had to push back the mount about 6" from the original to fill the 96" diag. 16 x 9 VuTec screen. The first thing I noticed was the brightness compared to the Piano, WOW! Also the Piano was very quite but this thing is whisper quite and after you power down the fan shuts off completely once the bulb is cooled for about 30 sec.

I upgraded my Comcast box to HD so I could finally have an HD signal in the theater and I have to say I'm so impressed with the quality of the IN72 I've mostly watched HD on the thing so far. I have previewed a few DVD's and the colors seem very vivid and natural.

So I hope this is a little better than my first post and hope that this will officially count as the first review of the Infocus In72.

Will the IN72 use the same 62mm ND2 filter as the 4805?

Will the Premiere PBL-UMS mount work with the In72? Any suggestions here? I need a wall mount, not ceiling.

Does this mount connect directly to the IN72 or is there something in between them? If there is something, a plate, in between them, does it come with the mount or the projector, or neither (something I have to purchase separately)?

Could I use a HDMI > DVI converter so I could use my DVD player to calibrate the HDMI input on the IN72? Or, should I just calibrate using the DVI input and transfer the information to the HDMI input? I will be using DVI for DVD's and HDMI for Satellite HD box.

Thanks for the help. I'm ordering the IN72 today from AVS along with the HCCV screen material for my own DIY frame.

George -bub

Are all of the new Infocus projectors supposed to share this thread?When I started this thread, this whole series was a twinkle in Bob William's eye.

I personally think it should be a sticky and continue to cover all three models; the similarities are strong, the issues similar. I'd rather maintain Bob William's attention and valuable ongoing participation by concentrating on a single thread.

IMHO.

BTW, as a heads up: there is going to be a very aggressive AVS Power Buy on the series announced momentarily. It will be offered to "AVS CLUB" members only for the first week, then posted to the AVS Power Buy forum by Alan Gouger. It includes same-day free shipping.

I assure you, the deal will well justify an AVS CLUB membership !! Get yours now and support the wonderful people at AVS and this great forum !! ;)

(I have been brokering the deal with an authorized east coast dealer over the last couple weeks.)

When I started this thread, this whole series was a twinkle in Bob William's eye.

I personally think it should be a sticky and continue to cover all three models; the similarities are strong, the issues similar. I'd rather maintain Bob William's attention and valuable ongoing participation by concentrating on a single thread.

IMHO.

BTW, as a heads up: there is going to be a very aggressive AVS Power Buy on the series announced momentarily. It will be offered to "AVS CLUB" members only for the first week, then posted to the AVS Power Buy forum by Alan Gouger. It includes same-day free shipping.

I assure you, the deal will well justify an AVS CLUB membership !! Get yours now and support the wonderful people at AVS and this great forum !! ;)

(I have been brokering the deal with an authorized east coast dealer over the last couple weeks.)

I'm assuming there is a difference between just being a member and posting vs being an "AVS CLUB" member?

I'm assuming there is a difference between just being a member and posting vs being an "AVS CLUB" member?Yes. Check out this link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/subscriptions.php?). At a minimum, AVS Club membership gets you the following benefits...

Full access to AVS Club Only Forums including: For Sale
Special AVS Club Power Buys
Rumor Mill
Great Found Deals
Job Posting and Seeking
..... Others areas as added and much more .....

BTW, as a heads up: there is going to be a very aggressive AVS Power Buy on the series announced momentarily. It will be offered to "AVS CLUB" members only for the first week, then posted to the AVS Power Buy forum by Alan Gouger. It includes same-day free shipping.


Do you mean the "AVS Club member" Power Buy will be more aggressive than what is posted to the "regular" AVS Power Buy forum?

Mike

Do you mean the "AVS Club member" Power Buy will be more aggressive than what is posted to the "regular" AVS Power Buy forum?

Mike

Mike,

I was not the one who quoted that. Just clearing that up :)

Allright, I'll bite....what do you mean by very aggressive power buy? They allready have it. "Special Intro Special on Infocus IN72, IN74 and IN76!"

Is this going to be something different? A super duper Special Intro Special?

Is this going to be something different?This isn't the forum to discuss deals but know that AVS fights for better deals for AVS Club members. Take this issue to PM or watch for Alan's message to be sent to AVS Club members.

I do have a question maybe Bob can answer. I'm getting some problems with the IN72 in getting a proper 16x9 format. I'm losing about 10 pixels either above or below that aren't being used. I mean, 10 or so that *should* be there. The image doesn't fill the vertical dimension of my screen. But then when I move the image around, it just changes where the pixels are missing. The IN74 had some similar things where I couldn't quite get it right.
What source resolution and type (digital or analog) are you seeing this issue with? Does it happen with the internally generated test patterns or blank screen (set the blank color to blue or white and then switch to an unused source)? Finally, are you sure your screen is actually 16:9?

Hi Bob,
It happened with HDMI on the IN74, I believe and it is happening using the IN72 with the JVC D-VHS VCR via analog outs. But when I pop up the menu, it is a good 10 pixels higher than the 16x9 image. It is a 16x9 screen. I haven't had this every happen before. I couldn't quite get a full image with DVD via HDMI out of the IN74 either, I never ran it off of HD over HDMI or analog. It was always about 10 pixels in on the sides too.

Is this pixel cropping? It seems like it. Does the IN series have the ability to have zero overscan/zero pixel cropping? Sometimes you want a little for broadcasts with junk in the extreme edges of the picture, and for everything else you probably want NONE.

Does Infocus' warranty have a zero dead pixel policy?

Dan

Ahzroe

Congrats!! Dude, there is nothing more freaking exciting than when the PJ arrives and you fire it up on some off color wall with wires everywhere, and popcorn thingies everywhere, and the WAF nagging about dinner as you sit there staring at the picture on your purple wall and think how you can't believe you will actually have an 8 ft image that looks awesome ;) . I'm jealous, but very happy for you.

And believe you me, if I can install my 4805 and screen, then ANYBODY can do it. Just take your time, make your measurements, triple check your measurements, and so on!!

Thanks for the confidence!! I have made a DIY screen with some Silver Screen paint, so at least I don't have a purple wall!!

Does Infocus' warranty have a zero dead pixel policy?FWIW: Bob has said that the dead-pixel policy is the same as TI's. Infocus customer support told me they have never refused a claim for a dead pixel.

Quote:
So I hope this is a little better than my first post and hope that this will officially count as the first review of the Infocus In72.
Thanks for the review Ron. :) Consider it official! :D

Alas, looks like that price is not to be. The MSRP is now listed at $399 on the InFocus webpage (http://store.infocus.com/escalate/store/DetailPage?pls=infocus&bc=infocus&tab=desc&pc=SP-LAMP-025&). I was a little psyched about the $249 price - thought we may be seeing the dawn of new pricing with PJ lamps. Guess not.... :(

That's disappointing. And surprising. I thought $249 was a reflection of economies of scale, of 3 models sharing a same platform right down to exactly the same lamp. Or the current pricing just reflects the shortage of that particular bulb. Isn't the bulb same as that used in the 4805 albeit in different housing (I seem to recall someone stating that somewhere here)? 4805 lamps are hard to find at the moment. Hopefully, by the time the first batch of IN7x owners require new lamps, the lamp price will come down.

joe

Yes. Check out this link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/subscriptions.php?). At a minimum, AVS Club membership gets you the following benefits...

Okay - you got me. Now I'm a card-carrying member. :D

I just learned there's an authorized dealer practically in my neighborhood less than a mile away from my house - just a little detour enroute to my office. I'm going to pay them a visit this weekend and all but made up my mind to purchase from them. But, now? I'm gonna check out this members-only AVS deal! :)

I'll still visit the local dealer in the off chance they have a new unit for demo. Even if I don't purchase from the local dealer, I wonder if I can still take care of any service issues through them? That would be sooooo convenient.

joe

Hi

I hope you can help me.

I have the opportunity to buy a used 7205 with 350 hours on the bulb. The projector is 1 year and 4 months old so there is still 8 months warranty left. The price is approximately 2100$ US.

I will be using it in a totally darkened room and I am going for a 130” to 140” screen. The room dimensions are approximately 25x16x7ft. The seating positions will wary from 1 to 1.5 x the screen width

The IN76 will cost around 3100$ US in Denmark.

My questions are:

1) Which is the better projector for my conditions?

2) Does the 7205 have any known faults, like for example the color wheel buzz on the X1?

Kind Regards

Henrik

Will the new IN72 use the same ND2 62mm filter as the 4805?

Is the HCCV screen material still a good choice for the IN72?

Would a DVI > M1-D cable have any advantage over a straight DVI cable used with a DVI > M1-D adapter?

While using a HDMI cable out of a HD Satellite box to the IN72, since I will not need sound to the proj., will I still be able to use a digital out of the Sat box for sound going to my audio receiver?

George -bub

Appreciate the help (I've read darn near every post in the, now 3, 4805 threads but my memory fails me and the search function of web boards, while somewhat useful, really suck).

Does anybody have any input?

I've purchased the IN72, the HCCV screen material and the 62mm ND2 filter so I'm hoping the IN72 uses the same size filter.

I still do not know if there is any advantage to using a cable with DVI on one end and M1-D on the other vs. a straight DVI cable with a DVI > M1-D adapter.

I would also like to know if I can calibrate (using AVIA) the DVI input (HM1-DA on the IN72) and then 'transfer' the settings over to the HDMI input or do I have to calibrate them separately? If I have to calibrate separately, can I use a DVI > HDMI adapter?

I'm going to be using the Bravo D1 as my DVD player.

Thanks everybody, anxiously awaiting the arrival of my IN72 (thank you very much Jason/AVS), and with some trepidation will be building my DIY frame and masking system along with changing the infamous bad capacitor on the D1 (my very first soldering 'job'). I will report back...

George -bub

Question for Bob Williams -
I am considering the IN 76 for my home setup and am curious as to how it handles 1080i sources. Does the internal scaler Bob or Weave 1080i? I am a first time poster to this thread, and am pleased to find a manufacturer's rep available to help with technical issues. That in itself is reason to contemplate IF products - I can at least type to someone who can give me the straight dope.

Regards,
Bill Volk

Question for Bob Williams -
I am considering the IN 76 for my home setup and am curious as to how it handles 1080i sources. Does the internal scaler Bob or Weave 1080i?
The internal scaler will smartly weave 1080i film-based content based on automatic detection of the film frame cadence and will do motion compensated deinterlacing plus low angle interpolation for video-based content (much more advanced than simple "bob" deinterlacing).

thanks to everyone's questions, and more importantly Bob W.'s answers, I've decided to go with the IN76 and match it up to my Stewart Firehawk (1.25G) screen. I just hope my eyes won't be seared out of my skull due to the lumens. That, and hopefully my seating distance of ~160" won't be too near, but I'm thinking ahead of when the 1080p pj's will be coming out.

Can someone give me some insight to the trigger connection? I've pre-wired an AWG18 wire to where the pj will be, but I'm unsure if I need to pre-order a connector at the pj end?

Okay - you got me. Now I'm a card-carrying member. :D

I just learned there's an authorized dealer practically in my neighborhood less than a mile away from my house - just a little detour enroute to my office. I'm going to pay them a visit this weekend and all but made up my mind to purchase from them. But, now? I'm gonna check out this members-only AVS deal! :)

I'll still visit the local dealer in the off chance they have a new unit for demo. Even if I don't purchase from the local dealer, I wonder if I can still take care of any service issues through them? That would be sooooo convenient.

joe

Jeez, I hate it when guys that do that. Nothing against AVS or even purchasing off the Internet, but if you buy from AVS, don't go to the local guy you DID NOT support looking for him to support you.

I've purchased the IN72, the HCCV screen material and the 62mm ND2 filter so I'm hoping the IN72 uses the same size filter.

I believe the new IN series projector lens are not threaded, so a filter will not fit over them. I hope you have some tape ready.

Jeez, I hate it when guys that do that. Nothing against AVS or even purchasing off the Internet, but if you buy from AVS, don't go to the local guy you DID NOT support looking for him to support you.

I understand the sentiment, but I don't know what an authorized dealership network entails in this case. So I wondered aloud.

E.g. I can take my Honda to any Honda dealer for regular maintenance. In fact, Honda just replaced my transmission with a brand new one under extended warranty (they extended the warranty voluntarily 3 years ago after identifying potential problems - how great is that?) It would have mattered none to little to any party involved which Honda dealer handled it, so I took it to one nearest to my office. Less than 48 hrs. turn-around time. Happy customer. Happy dealer. Honda was great ($0 out-of-pocket expense for me.)

So, can I not just replace "Honda" with "InFocus", "transmission" with "IN76", and expect the same kind of experience? I'll check with the local dealer when I pay them a visit this weekend.

joe

Most manufacturers will have you send a unit requiring repair to an "authorized service center," or back to the manufacturer. An authorized service center is almost certainly not a dealer, nor will it be local, unless you are very lucky.

Very, very few dealers, authorized or not, perform any service work these days, and even if they did, see my first statement.

Infocus authorized sales and authorized repair service are seperate entities - there are no dealers that are repair servicers. This is very different than car dealers - a car cannot be mailed to a service center - it has to be driven thus repairs are local. A projector is easy to mail - makes more sense to have one national repair center.


Now a local dealer can of course provide ancillary services that the Internet cannot provide - but the smart ones are doing this for fee - not for free. There is no requirement from Infocus that dealers touch a box that they did not sell. In my biz I focus on calibration&design - and if people have an authorized purchase I will help them out if they are willing to pay my fees. But supposed someone bought a greymarket SP7210 which is not authorized for online sales and the lamp starts going bad because they installed it next to a heater vent? You can't get me near it no matter how much you want to pay me - and Infocus would back me up on that. The one thing locals learn about their installs - is you get married to them - and you need to take into consideration who you want to be married to. I have a customer blaming me for the broken VCR - which they installed themselves after I left! I told them I can come look at it for a fee that is more than the VCR is worth - but I recommended they trash it and get a PVR from the cable company instead - and in that case my install work is warranted and I would retune the projector once the cable company leaves (and even set up the cable box properly)

If you want local services support your local dealer - the reason you can no longer find local demos is that many people expected those services for free. Look at your local computer dealer as an example of where A/V dealers are headed - service is not free. Try to find a mid-fi audiophile shop these days - I know of only one in the entire PDX area.

Nothing wrong with getting the deal on the net long as you know what you are doing - just don't take advantage of the locals in the process. So what I am saying is - if you think you can get the better deal as an AVS club member take it - don't stop by the locals showroom if you have no intention of paying for their better value (and that means don't bother trying to get a price match - they can never match a volume warehouse). If you are lucky maybe they will come out for fee and help you with your setup - but don't count on it as most will not touch what they did not sell.

Amazing but even digital_dillema and bubbawilly agree with me! This is more of an issue in the more expensive forum since this cheaper forum - the local shops rarely bother with the cheaper projectors in the first place.


I have not found a filter to fit the IN72/IN76 yet - the lens plastic is not even a circle....screwup in mechanical design on an otherwise stellar case. Bob W - is duct tape the only solution here for this bright torch to ND2 filter it down?

... Now a local dealer can of course provide ancillary services that the Internet cannot provide - but the smart ones are doing this for fee - not for free. There is no requirement from Infocus that dealers touch a box that they did not sell...

Okay - this is the clarification I was looking for. Thanks.

... But supposed someone bought a greymarket SP7210 which is not authorized for online sales and the lamp starts going bad because they installed it next to a heater vent? You can't get me near it no matter how much you want to pay me - and Infocus would back me up on that...

Oh, no - I'd never even consider purchasing from an unauthorized source. I have a legit refurb 4805 - a total impulse buy after a coworker brought his in to demo it for us. Soon after the refurb warranty expired, it became very finicky - M1-DVI input stopped working, lamp hour counter magically reset, 1500 hrs later, there's a yellow vertical band on the left edge of the image - probably the glue on the wave guide edges melting on me a bit. Made me wish I was still under warranty or had thought to get an extended warranty. So I'll be making sure I'll get legit service when I need to.

... I have a customer blaming me for the broken VCR - which they installed themselves after I left! ...

Takes all kinds. :)

... Nothing wrong with getting the deal on the net long as you know what you are doing - just don't take advantage of the locals in the process. So what I am saying is - if you think you can get the better deal as an AVS club member take it - don't stop by the locals showroom if you have no intention of paying for their better value. If you are lucky maybe they will come out for fee and help you with your setup - but don't count on it as most will not touch what they did not sell...

Potential good benefits from AVS, on this and others, prompted me to sign up as a club member, and it's a very minute price to help keep these forums going. But the major reason I wanted to visit my dealer this weekend was precisely to see what overall experience I can expect from them - along with a small hope that I can see an acutal unit in action. I was - and am - ready to spend the MSRP on one of these sight unseen. I've never been a good bargain hunter, so talking deals was not my intention - but of course I'll ask what they'd offer, but I would not have mentioned the potential AVS deal, etc., as a bargaining chip. I would assume that they'd assume that I'm shopping around, anyway. I want to talk gadget - not $$$ :D

All things being equal (in this case, the product), I place the most value in convenience and decent service since I'm 1) lazy, and 2) have so little free time (okay - well, I'm goofing off precisely at this moment. :D ) If they seem like "good people", I'm very likely to purchase from them. If they had one in stock to sell, it's even more likely that I'll go ahead and buy it along with extended warranties, etc. If they can be the convenient middleman for any potential warranty service needs, that will really be the biggest deciding factor - because I'm too lazy to deal with InFocus service reps, being put on hold, etc., get the RMA, stop by parcel service to ship to a service center, etc. :D I guess they'll tell me this weekend whether or not they'll provide that kind of service if I became their customer.

Thanx-o-bunch.

joe

Amazing but even digital_dillema and bubbawilly agree with me!

Actually, it's YOU agreeing with US! :D

I have not found a filter to fit the IN72/IN76 yet - the lens plastic is not even a circle....screwup in mechanical design on an otherwise stellar case. Bob W - is duct tape the only solution here for this bright torch to ND2 filter it down?

You are not kidding? My 62mm ND2 filter will not fit the IN72??? That is disappointing to say the least.

Kras,
Could you address my other question please? Can I calibrate the HDMI input by transferring the settings from the DVI input or should/could I use a DVI > HDMI converter to calibrate the HDMI input separately?

I will report back on how well my duct tape/ND2 filter/IN72 'project' goes...

George -bub

EDIT: Pricing removed

Question to Bob...Im planning on getting the In76...pair it with a 106" DaLite screen...what type is best suited for it? ambient light is not a problem...

Can someone please advise if the brightness, contrast, color, and tint controls are available on the digital inputs? Thanks.

You are not kidding? My 62mm ND2 filter will not fit the IN72??? That is disappointing to say the least.

Kras,
Could you address my other question please? Can I calibrate the HDMI input by transferring the settings from the DVI input or should/could I use a DVI > HDMI converter to calibrate the HDMI input separately?

I will report back on how well my duct tape/ND2 filter/IN72 'project' goes...

George -bub

I would presume your HDMI is different source than DVI? DVI can be PC or video levels of RGB, HDMI can be RGB or YCbCr.

Since the source signal could be different - best to calibrate seperately. If you are talking about the same source to either input - then it is the same receivers and same drivers - should be the same calibration that can be copied to the other input.

Digital only works right when it works right - otherwise it can be difficult to get it right.

I would presume your HDMI is different source than DVI? DVI can be PC or video levels of RGB, HDMI can be RGB or YCbCr.

Since the source signal could be different - best to calibrate seperately. If you are talking about the same source to either input - then it is the same receivers and same drivers - should be the same calibration that can be copied to the other input.

Digital only works right when it works right - otherwise it can be difficult to get it right.

Kras, forgot to mention my sources...

D1 on the DVI (IN72's M1-D) input
Dish Network Vip622 HD PVR on the HDMI input

If I can't copy the settings from the calibrated DVI input (calibrated using the D1 and AVIA), how would one go about calibrating the HDMI input? Could I use the D1 and a DVI > HDMI adapter?

Thanks for the help,
George

Better to wait for the early AM test pattern broadcasts. While in theory the DVI and the HDMI may both be outputting the same digital video standard - I would not bet on it. But if they do - Bob said they will recognize the digital video and set themselves up correctly.

Black levels could be improperly set on either source , video decoder on the settop could be horrid - and most importantly every broadcast station will be different! I have used my reference Accupel HD generator to do settop box inputs before - and found I still needed to do some tweaking by eye - or to match up the test pattern broadcasts. Not only that I found component is usually better on your settop boxes - they only added digital outs as they were legally mandated.

...Could I use the D1 and a DVI > HDMI adapter?

Thanks for the help,
George

I used an adapter from monoprice.com with my 4805. It worked fine, and it's not that expensive. DVI female one end, HDMI female at the other (DVI-D plug from the DVI cable to the DVI female socket of the adapter; short regular male-to-male HDMI cable, one end to adapter, the other end to device.)

Monoprice has other variations also. I think they have a dongle with HDMI-male on one end and DVI female at the other end. You can plug this dongle directly into your HDMI device and not use the HDMI-to-HDMI cable as I did.

There are other vendors that carry similar adapters/dongles.

One caveat: I saw a bit of dot-crawl (*) with digital connection on 720p/1080i material - mostly obvious with white text. Don't know if it was the 25' M1-DVI cable (very heavy gauge with ferrite cores, also from monoprice.com,) the aforementioned adapter, the 3' long HDMI-HDMI cable (bestbuy - yuck - and f***** expensive), or the processing by the SA8300HD STB or 4805. YMMV.

[edit: correction] (*) sorry - it's not "dot-crawl" but it's the term that always comes to my mind immediately when I see it because it looks like a "crawling dot". It looks like some kind of a blocking artifact at (not really "around" or "near") near-vertical and near-horizontal lines where there's a sharp transition of extremely opposite contrast levels (white text on black background - like sports scores).

a few questions:

I've read that DVI is limited to 8-bit resolution?
What is HDMI limited to?

When 8-bit video processing is used, I'm assuming this means 8-bit (256) shades of greyscale? This could lead to banding when looking at a greyscale pattern or whenever you see a pan of a sunset for example?

I have read that the IN76 is using 10-bit video processing correct? To me, I read this as having 10-bit greyscale or 1024 shades of grey which would almost certainly eliminate banding altogether? Unless of course your source is still outputting 8-bit which means it is the bottleneck?

Am I on the right track here or am I way off base?

8 bit video does not band - as long as all 8 bits are preserved in the signal chain. With the differences in video vs. PC DVI, and DVD players having blown out contrast/brightness, and broadcasters not having a clue and some displays doing the same - digital signal chains does not guarantee that all the bits get preserved. So the move to 10b controls is so that things can be properly adjusted - without causing banding. Just look at any modern laptop - they are all 8b digital data driving a direct link LCD display - and they do not band when showing grey or color ramps (some older laptops are 16b rather than 24b- i.e. HighColor vs. TrueColor - and those will band)

On the Infocus SP7210 - accomodating the PC vs video DVI standards required adjusting the RGB gain/offset controls as they had more bits than the brightness/contrast controls - and that was fixed on SP4805. The new boxes all the controls have more bits. There is also the gamma adjustments - which is not possible to do with 8b data.

HDMI adds digital component signals of various compression ratios and bit depths to the mix and required HDCP (copy protection). DVI is just the digital RGB with optional HDCP. The difference is where the video decoding is done - display or source - and since RGB and component are different color spaces - it depends on how well this is done. Since all sources are RGB to start - they get converted to component for media storage/transmission - then converted back to RGB to drive the display - there is opportunity to lose bits in the process.

DLPs do not use bit drivers to drive the display (DMD) - unlike other display technologies they use pulse width modulation. Your eye is actually the analog converter in this system! A DMD is only capable of B&W sequentially modulated by Red, Green, and Blue filters - they just flip the mirrors and rotate the colors so fast that you 'see' color video of different shades. So it is not correct to say a DMD has a bit depth - rather it has a bandwidth of how fast can you flip the mirrors. Each successive DMD generation from TI has improved on that. Bob W mentioned earlier that Infocus writes their own timing code and does not use TI's timing code - specifially to avoid banding issues. Maybe BobW can elaborate on that remark without giving away the store!

The real bottleneck is that DVI is data limited to 8b RGB - and most people assume DVI being digital means it is properly calibrated outputs and broadcasts. The problem is if it is not - you have lost data, and if it can be calibrated but if controls are only 8b - you have no adjustment range possible. But if you can control the source - say a well mastered DVD such as TheIncredibles, and control what the source outputs - say a well tuned HTPC - even 8b video will blow you away as being banding/dithering free.

My new baby (IN76) is in the trunk of my car!!!

I'll be playing with this for a good while after I get home from work tonight. I'm upgrading from a 4805, so this should be a pretty impressive upgrade.

Wow, Kras. I believe I understood a lot of that. Thanks.

APranger, please post your in depth opinions when you can! It's nice to start seeing these show up finally.

will we ever see a good review or people are just going to keep saying I ordered it I am excited or keep asking what screen what source what cable etc etc :-)

Thank You Fed Ex, Jason Turk and Bob Williams! My IN76 is here! Here is a some quick first impressions:

Review type: Amateur Home Theatre Buff - not an expert!
Upgrading from: 4805
Primary source: Oppo DVD player via DVI-to-HDMI
Projecting onto: wall, sorry purists! (rough drywall mud with a very flat white. Maybe similar to a .8 screen)
Projecting about a 10' foot image. Seating 19 feet away. Projector 20 feet away.

Answers to common questions:

Is it quiet? Yes, much quieter than 4805, but not silent. If you are ceiling mounting, it would be hard to hear it at all. If it is on the table right in front of you or on a shelf near your head (my set up) you do still hear it in quiet scenes.

Is it better than a 4805? Yes, no surprise, but yes. I will leave it to those better than I to comment in detail, but standing close to both images side by side, the difference in SDE is amazing. Not surprising given the higher resolution, but pretty cool to see.

Should I upgrade from my 4805? So far, if you have the money, maybe. Well, you should really donate the money to charity and be happy with what you have, but ya know... Why maybe? If fan noise is a big issue (it was for me) and you want a step up in image quality, then yes. But if fan noise is not a big issue, cash is tight, then realize that it is a better PQ with the IN76, but the 4805 wasn't so bad! Realize that it is truly a step up in PQ, but a step, not a life changing experience.

Is it brighter? Yes, as stated on the spec sheet, it is true.

What is the build quality? Pretty good. But to be honest, it's bigger chassis makes you think it should weigh more than it does. The contrast makes it feel a little cheap. Maybe inFocus should put some lead weights in it or something? :) Of course, the light weight would be an advantage to those ceiling mounting. Looks nice sitting there!

How about the remote? Excellent feel here. Strong signal bounces nicely off the wall. Equal or more so than the Oppo remote for comparison.

Well, I am going to go watch some movies now. :) And yes, I will be keeping my IN76. I can tell that much from first impressions! If I was the target audience for the IN76, I think InFocus hit the mark! Now all I need to be happy is for this thread to be a sticky!! ;)

Mike

As a 4805 owner looking to upgrade, you sold me Mike. Remember, HD-DVD/BluRay is coming in just days!! 480p is not enough!! Bwaahahaahaahaaaaa.. :D

I'm soooo glad to hear the 76 is quieter.

Mike, buddy, there will be no movie watching until you have satisfied us with enough comments about this projector! Maybe you can watch brief scenes between posts here, but a full movie?! No no no no noooo!

How's the color? Black level? Contrast? Flashlight on the remote? Ease of set-up?

Then, you'll need to post to obligatory Fifth Element screenshots too.

Get crack'n, my friend!


:D:D:D:D

Congrats on the purchase. Sounds good so far. Now go and enjoy it!

George

Excuse the amateur answers, but here you go.

How's the color?
Great - brighter without being catoonish.

Black level?
Excellent

Contrast?
Better

Flashlight on the remote?
The remote is backlit by pushing a button, but a flashlight? Don't think so, I remember reading this, but don't see it. Maybe that was the H72? Sorry...

Ease of set-up?
On a shelf, projecting onto a wall, it was ridiculously easy. I just turned it on and focused it. :)

I have to say, it is starting to be a little more than just 'a step up in PQ' now that I am watching more content... when the kids go to bed, I will put on something besides the Nemo/Spirited Away material I am using now.

I will also try to post some screen shots. I am on a crappy satellite link for my internet connection and it isn't stable enough right now for me to upload a large file...

Mike

I still do not know if there is any advantage to using a cable with DVI on one end and M1-D on the other vs. a straight DVI cable with a DVI > M1-D adapter.
George -bub

Unless you plan on using the adapter in the future with a different length cable (future flexibility), then having the adapter built-in would be fine. I bought a seperate cable and adapter because I could not find a built-in one anywhere back during Christmas (2 years ago).

That D1 will be sweet with the IN72. Bub, you should ask Bob W about the IN72 and Studio levels. If I remember correctly, I believe he stated that the IN72 model does not have the toggle switch btw studio and PC DVI, and I seriously doubt that the 4805 RGB gains/offsets work for the IN72.

So Bob W, whenever you get a chance, Bub and many others will likely need the RGB gains/offsets for studio DVI on the IN 72!! ;)

That D1 will be sweet with the IN72. Bub, you should ask Bob W about the IN72 and Studio levels. If I remember correctly, I believe he stated that the IN72 model does not have the toggle switch btw studio and PC DVI, and I seriously doubt that the 4805 RGB gains/offsets work for the IN72.

So Bob W, whenever you get a chance, Bub and many others will likely need the RGB gains/offsets for studio DVI on the IN 72!! ;)

Yep very needed info. IN72 Owners we need your reviews and thought on the machine, esp if you owned a SP4805. I was leaning towards the IN72 but don't know now as (10% better picture if that) is just not enough for me to pay $500 more than a used SP4805. I can't figure out why we haven't heard more by now I thought a few people had them. D1 on the way Mod capacitor in hand and I'm buying a 480p DMD in the next 7 days just can't decide on which one.

D1 talk in this thread too?

Can't you guys give it a rest? Let's leave at least 1 IF PJ thread for the projectors;)

Bub, you should ask Bob W about the IN72 and Studio levels. If I remember correctly, I believe he stated that the IN72 model does not have the toggle switch btw studio and PC DVI, and I seriously doubt that the 4805 RGB gains/offsets work for the IN72.

So Bob W, whenever you get a chance, Bub and many others will likely need the RGB gains/offsets for studio DVI on the IN 72!! ;)

Wow, I never even thought of that. I assumed I could use all the information I've gleaned from these threads regarding the 4805 and use them for the IN72. My bubble has burst...

I need help.

Any and all advice/assistance/recommendations/ideas would be greatly appreciated. My IN72 will be here on Tuesday. This is my first projector.

George -bub

Ok - for what it's worth, here are some shots of the IN76:
http://homepage.mac.com/sunol/FileSharing7.html
The screen shots are just from the Oppo.

However, I just watched some NCAA basketball on HD (is CBS 720p or 1080i?). Much more impressive then the Oppo upscaling DVD player. Much larger difference from the 4805, much clearer upgrade choice if you intend to watch OTA HD. Blacks were black. Really had to look for it to see any artifacting from my 2:1 seating position during the action. SD content was hard to watch, probably doesn't handle it any worse that the 4805, but the contrast between the SD/HD PQ was like a slap in the face! If you are a sports fan, a 10' wide 720p HD image is definitely a 'killer app' for the IN76.

Mike

George,


You've picked one heckuva first projector. I haven't seen one, but since it is better than the 4805, which I do have, I can confidently say you've made a good choice. Having a projector sure changes the experience of watching tv, DVDs, and playing games. I've been without a lamp for a couple of weeks now and it is REALLY starting to drive my crazy. The movies just aren't as enveloping on a smaller screen. You've entered a whole new level in the HT world.

Enjoy the upgrade!
George

Wow, I never even thought of that. I assumed I could use all the information I've gleaned from these threads regarding the 4805 and use them for the IN72. My bubble has burst...

I need help.

Any and all advice/assistance/recommendations/ideas would be greatly appreciated. My IN72 will be here on Tuesday. This is my first projector.

George -bub

What Bob said was they all auto recognize the video vs PC DVI/HDMI source - no need for adjustment now. What was missing in the IN72 was a toggle switch in the menu to say when that video was coming from a PC source - and BobW promised to try to get it into the IN76 - but I dunno if he did. I don't remember seeing one....

I don't have a whole ton to say yet -- but I'm really psyched about it. Here are my first impressions and other thoughts:

I've been wanting a 720p system for a long time now, and especially since I moved into my new place. My screen size jumped from a 63" to a 100" diagonal. The combination of that, and the bulb on the SP4805 beeing middle aged (1500 hours) pushed me over the edge.

Picture quality is excellent. I don't have the ability to A/B them, but the added lumens certainly adds punch to the image. Of course, it's hardly fair to compare a bulb with 0 hours to one with 1500 :)

I have no idea what Audioholics was talking about when they complained about screen door with this thing. I've got lasik-corrected vision (about 20/15), and I can't regularly see screen door until I get to about 1.2 or 1.3 screen widths away. That's where my first row of seating is, and I would happily sit there and watch a movie.

DVDs were nice (of course), but the real treat was watching some HDTV. The InHD channels are simply stunning.

Short answer? Absolutely happy with my upgrade. I bought the SP4805 about 1.5 years ago with the intent to hold off until I could get 720p DLP unit affordably. The IN76 *is* that projector, and I'm sure I'll get closer to 2 or 3 years out of this one.

is CBS 720p or 1080i?Only ABC, FOX and ESPN are 720p. The rest of the HD channels are just 1080i.

What Bob said was they all auto recognize the video vs PC DVI/HDMI source - no need for adjustment now. What was missing in the IN72 was a toggle switch in the menu to say when that video was coming from a PC source - and BobW promised to try to get it into the IN76 - but I dunno if he did. I don't remember seeing one....

So, I don't have to adjust the gains/offsets for the IN72 correct?

Just do the normal calibration using AVIA/VE then?

Anything I should be especially careful about when calibrating?

Thanks,
George -bub

I have not found a filter to fit the IN72/IN76 yet - the lens plastic is not even a circle....screwup in mechanical design on an otherwise stellar case. Bob W - is duct tape the only solution here for this bright torch to ND2 filter it down?

Has anybody found a ND filter solution yet?

Yeah, the new inset, threadless (at least from pictures) lens assembly and the shorter throw are the big problems with this new IN line (the latter with the IN74 and IN76). I was hoping to use a constant height 2.35:1 screen with an anamorphic lens with either the IN74 or IN76, but it may be very hard to not get a heck of a lot of pincushion and barrel distortion (or impossible if the light cone is too large... I haven't heard anything on this yet) to do with this new setup... besides not being able to add a filter!

Two steps forward, one step back.

Dan

Thanks to Bob Williams for the speedy reply to my post a few days ago. I had already ordered an IN76 for myself to try out and it got here yesterday. Glad to hear that it's a "weaver".
To the many folks who are looking for a reveiw on this PJ I will offer my 2 cents.
Some background: I design and install home theaters for a living. I usually do smaller projects ($10-15k projects - soup to nuts) and have been installing DLP projectors since they first came out. I'm an ISF'er, and know what a good picture looks like. The first projector I ever installed in someone elses home was a VGA resolution LCD from Sharpvision about 11 years ago. It cost just under 4 grand and by todays standards would be un-watchable. The first DLP I ever installed was a Dreamvision that cost $6500, had lousy scaling, rainbows out the wazoo, and no component input. In short, I've been there and done that.

I have been waiting to set up a theater in my own home for the last five years.
Waiting for an affordable projector that didn't suck. Waiting for the technology to mature. Waiting for something that was as good as the xv z12000's I've been installing - at a third of the price. My wait is over. Play Big IN76.

The things I am looking for in a PJ are: a. good scaling of SD (composite) material up to the panels resolution with minimal artifacts and softening of the picture b. accurate color rendition out of the box (so I miss out on a few calibrations - boo hoo) c. quiet fan and color wheel d. no light spill from PJ case e. decent optics f. good black levels g. affordable price h. appealing cosmetics

Infocus has hit one out of the park with IN76.

I can honestly say that this PJ can hold it's own with the last generation of top of the line Marantz VP and Sharp XV series units. It's that good. Comparing it to the 4805 is ludicrous. From the standpoint of price, resolution and performance you're talking apples and oranges. What is amazing is the you can compare it to the XV Z10000 and 12000 and your comparing apples to apples. I was hesitant to order this thing on specs alone, but figured WTF - I'll unload it on the net as used if it sucks (one advantage of buying at close to dealer cost). Guess what? This projector is not going on the net - it's going on my ceiling. It's that good.

I would encourage anyuone to take a close look at this projector if it's in your price range and meets your needs. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Congratulations to Infocus. You guys rock.

Regards,
Bill Volk
Hightechredneck

Ohhhhhh- when you talk like that I get all tingly, you know, down there :D :D :D I can't wait until I can get one!! Nice to hear words like that coming from an ISF'er.

I can honestly say that this PJ can hold it's own with the last generation of top of the line Marantz VP and Sharp XV series units. It's that good. Comparing it to the 4805 is ludicrous. From the standpoint of price, resolution and performance you're talking apples and oranges. What is amazing is the you can compare it to the XV Z10000 and 12000 and your comparing apples to apples.If you're familiar with Infocus products, I'd like to hear your opinion on how it stacks up to the 7210. Thanks.

Ditto....ordering an IN76 now though!

For you guys that already have the IN76, how do DVD's look with the component inputs? What about interlaced vs. progressive scan with component inputs? Thanks.

Comparing it to the 4805 is ludicrous.

I'm on day two of trying to do just that and I have to agree. First impression were good, second impressions are even better. I have viewed several sources now and it is simply in a different class. Better in every way - from PQ to environmentals. As I mentioned earlier, the PQ difference is especially obvious with a true HD source.

Couple of quirks so far just so people don't think I work for inFocus. ;)
1) Keeps loosing sync on a 480i signal over component. Happens about every 15 minutes and then comes back. I certainly didn't buy this projector to watch 480i content, but just noting it. It is routing through my Denon av receiver and other sources over the component input are fine. So I am pretty sure it is not the cable. May be my old VCR player (which I secretly hope is breaking so I can dump all those tapes). Either way, no biggie for me.
2) Fan made a very scary grinding noise today which went away as quickly as it came.

Anyway, maybe tonight I will get out the Avia disk. But I am wondering if I should bother. :)

Mike

sunol, what type of screen are you using?

Anyway, maybe tonight I will get out the Avia disk. But I am wondering if I should bother. :)

Mike

It won't hurt to check with Avia as different environments will result is different settings for everybody. :)

My IN76 will be here on Monday :) I'm upgrading from a SP4805. Coupled with a new Yamaha RX-V2600, Sony DVP-CX995V, XBOX360, and Comcast Digital Cable with HD of course. I'll try and post some screens as well as my comments and review.

I'm not sure if this is ok to do on the forums but I think it's important and I've seen others post website names of where they buy their projectors.

A couple of sites are offering the IN76 and IN74EX at a substantially lower price.

digitalliquidators

avbargain

Has anyone dealt with these companies and are they legit? They seem to be. Is there a way to check on a company's reputation? I know that there are companies that are just offices taking orders and ship from different warehouses around the country. They offer much lower prices and are legit.

Would you order from these places?

Might want to check this out. I looked them up on the BBB (Broadway Photo)

http://www.newyork.bbb.org/reports/businessreports.aspx?pid=44&page=1&id=68047

Same company as Prestige Camera

That being said, that is a really low price

smithfarmer - yes I have played with the 7205 and 7210, and would argue that any perceived (there are a few) performance advantages of the 7210 (at nearly double the money) would be offset in most buyers judgement by the In76's large improvements in aesthetic design, noise reduction, light spill control and above all, cost. I don't think it's realistic to expect absolute perfection at this price point. But if you were a buyer thinking that your 2.5k budget would rule out any image larger than 65" diagonal, then this PJ turns that notion on its head. I can see a whole new market opening up and embracing FPTV at this price point. I can tell you that a lot of people who would like a FP system end up balking not at the cost of the projector, but at the other items required to get a great image - window treatments, motorized screens, etc.... . Now it's possible to deliver a great picture to a big screen and not break the bank. I know that three years from now I can buy a better image for the same money. And I can buy a better computer in 18 months for the same money. But the computer I have right now serves me well for the money I have invested (unlike my dos-based 286 from 1990) and now I have a projector that does the same. That is cool.

regards,
Bill

Might want to check this out. I looked them up on the BBB (Broadway Photo)


Same company as Prestige Camera

That being said, that is a really low price


I see that digital liquidators is listed. Good heads up there. I wonder about avbargin.

Some have to be legit. It's just hard to know which ones.

Thanks.

Infocus has hit one out of the park with IN76.



Jason Turk, when am I going to get shipping notification on my IN76!!!!!

:)

Hi Typezer0 - "where to buy" discussions are not allowed and the mods will be deleting your posts soon.

But to answer your question, I would steer clear of those places. They clearly are violating InFocus' MAP (minimum advertised price) rules and therefore are not authorized dealers. InFocus is stricter than most when it comes to enforcing this, and that means no warranty for you.

Re Digital Liquidators See:

http://www.price.com/vendor_review_display.html?vid=-2147483186

Buyer Beware!

I didn't know if it was against rules on the forum or not. I thought it might be but wasn't sure.

I was very suspicious about these sites because it had that "To good to be true" about it, but wanted to get some feedback on it.

It would be a good idea to post a warning about these sights somewhere in the forum in forewarning anyone considering doing business with them.

These companies had to of come up in discussions before at some point.

I found this on a website. It's copy/paste and I edited it a bit.



"InFocus has a MAP(Minimum Advertised Price) Policy. This means that InFocus does not allow resellers to advertise prices below the MAP price that is set by InFocus.

InFocus allows prices that are below MAP to be shown after the item has been added to a shopping cart.(You can easily remove the item from the shopping cart.)

Manufacturers consider companies that violate their MAP policy to be unauthorized resellers. Purchasing products from unauthorized resellers often disqualifies that product from receiving the manufacturer's warranty, service and support.

We have a close relationship with our product manufacturers and we follow their rules and guidelines regarding the listing of prices on the Internet. We do this to insure that you have full warranty coverage for the products that you purchase."

sunol, what type of screen are you using?

My wall! Rough finish drywall with a very flat white paint (western acoustic) that works well. I am using the wall partially because of the strange shape of the room and partially because it works and partially because I love the fact that it all 'disappears' when I turn everything off. I think of it as a '.8' screen.
With the 4805, I had trouble during the day with the low gain I get from the wall and the lack of 'total' light control (some light through the edges of the blinds). With the IN76, the extra lumens takes care of that.
Look at the 'room' link if you want to see:
http://homepage.mac.com/sunol/FileSharing7.html
The daylight in the room is making the picture look 'warmer' than it really is... but you can see the image from the IN76 is coming through just fine despite the daylight. And this on the 'low power' setting.

There is some keystoning, but not as much as you might think since the angle of the wall parallels the angle of projection. I can use the keystone adjustment to completely eliminate it, but I don't bother since it is not that bad. The image stays in focus through out as well.

One of my 'future projects' is to play with some of the paint formulas in the DIY screen section of the forum, but this paint seems to work pretty well...

Mike

but the Infocus website says 2yr for the IN74. It must be a typo. The brochures say 1 yr for the IN74. Wish it was 2.

IN74
Shipping Dimensions: Not Available
Shipping Weight: Not Available
Projector Warranty: 2 Year
Lamp Warranty: 90 Days
Accessories Warranty: 90 Days

IN76
Shipping Dimensions: Not Available
Shipping Weight: Not Available
Projector Warranty: 1 Year
Lamp Warranty: 90 Days

IN72
Shipping Weight: Not Available
Projector Warranty: 1 Year
Lamp Warranty: 90 Days
Accessories Warranty: 90 Days

I am borrowing a Da-lite screen. I've been painting samples using different recipes. I'm not done, but the closest I've come so far is: 2 Behr Flat White, 1 Behr Deep Base, 2 Behr Pearlescent White Opal, and 1 Miniwax Polycyrlic water base satin. I primed the drywall with some creme color primer.

Did a little wet sanding between some of the coats. I'll try spraying next.

Compared to the Da-lite screen it's very close. It's just a slight shade darker. Impressive for just drywall and paint. I can't achieve the sparkle that the Da-lite has. If I add to much Pearlescent it gets darker. Is there some metallic flakes that can be added? Maybe something made for crafts.

I'm going to use the whole wall then use masking and curtains. So multiple aspect ratios can be achieved. Roughly the max viewing is 115W x 70H. I might put the pj on a track to max out each aspect ratio from all the different sizes and media.

My other option is to buy the raw material from Da-Lite (White Matte) @ $6.20 a sqft.
I need about 73 sgft. Or about $450. And hang the screen behind the masking.

I'm considering buying th IN74EX. Can't really afford the 76. I'm hoping it can achieve the 131" diagonal size I want.

Was watching some TV today, and while I was in the Windows MCE interface, I was just dumbfounded by how bright this thing is, even in low power mode.

I usually have the shades drawn in the room, but I'd forgotten to close them, so I had daylight streaming in. But this was totally usable anyway. 800 lumens is a LOT!

Blacks were terrible (obviously), but I'll have no problem enjoying sports & sitcoms with this guy, even with lots of light in the room.

I'm considering buying th IN74EX. I'm hoping it can achieve the 131" diagonal size I want.According to Bob's calculator, with a 1.0 gain screen, the image brightness would be perfect at 15.8fL. :)

Blacks were terrible (obviously), but I'll have no problem enjoying sports & sitcoms with this guy, even with lots of light in the room.

How big is yourscreen? Have you calibrated with AVIA or DVE? I'm curious how blacks are after calibration in a darkened room. Thanks.

Also in line with the above post.....were the blacks bad because of the extra light in the room?

How big is yourscreen? Have you calibrated with AVIA or DVE? I'm curious how blacks are after calibration in a darkened room. Thanks.
Blacks are great. We watched some of The Transporter, and the early chase scene had ample detail on the black BMW, and all of the black clothing worn by the hero and the police.

My screen is about 100" in diagonal. I haven't bothered calibrating yet, since if I had to make changes, I'd probably have to make them again after a few hundred hours. But with the Infocus projectors so dead-on accurate out of the factory, I don't think I could improve on that unless I had ISF skills and a light meter.

As an example, my SP4805 used the same settings before & after DVE. 50 contrast, 50 brightness. It may come as no surprise that these are the factory defaults. (Note: The RGB gains & offsets were adjusted to the settings that Bob Williams gave as being appropriate for RGB Video Levels coming over DVI).

Also in line with the above post.....were the blacks bad because of the extra light in the room?
Lol, yes -- I suppose that should be spelled out :D. Sunlight is a bitch! When the lights go off, there are no problems to report.

Whew....almost worried me there for a minute!