Infocus IN72-IN74-IN76 [Text View] - Page 7

JeffKB

04-13-06, 12:00 AM

All IN76 users ...

Has anybody else found CRT or PC themes better than the default film?

Has anybody else bumped up to "sharper" from "standard" setting?

K
Hi Kevivoe - based on professional calibration reviews of other InFocus projectors, CRT and FILM are the most accurate gammas. IMO you want to stick to those. CRT is good if you want to improve perceived contrast at the expense of some black detail. FILM is a good all around gamma and allows for better shadow detail than CRT. PC gamma was found to mess up color accuracy - it's not really intended for movies.

I use the "softer" setting for sharpness. I've used 2 DVD players with the IN76 so far, and in both cases that was the setting where ringing disappeared with both AVIA and DVE sharpness test patterns. "Sharper" produced significant ringing and made for your typical grainy, edge enhanced appearance while watching DVDs. Since this setting can vary depending on the DVD player you're using, the only way to be sure is to use a calibration DVD and see which setting is the best for you. :)

smithfarmer

04-13-06, 12:21 AM

One very important detail still seems to be mising fom the reviews posted by the owners of these new pj's. How do you guys like the built-in flashlight on the remote? ;)

Tolstoi

04-13-06, 09:03 AM

I'm getting the best image when I let the Dennon 3910 scale DVD's to 720p rather than sending 480p and letting the projector do the scaling. The difference isn't huge but it is enough to notice. This projector definetly produces a terrific image.

Interesting this lead to conclude that the Faroudja de-interlacing and scaling of the Denon 3910 (and of the 4805) is superior to the new Pixerwork solution.

Benoit

Bob Williams

04-13-06, 10:00 AM

I tried to quickly set my white level using the THX optimization logo via a DVI-HDMI link to the IN76. Usually, one is able to see the "THX" logo, but possibly not the drop shadow behind it. I was unable to see the THX logo altogether and no amount of brightness, contrast, nor gamma settings fixed this. I usually use the AVIA or DVE discs to perform this, but it did confuse me. I'll report back when I fine tune with those, but if anyone has any comments I'd appreciate it.
It sounds like the player is not outputting studio levels. To change the projector to PC levels, go into the color space menu and switch from auto to RGB. At that point the brightness and contrast controls will give you the ability to adjust through the full range.

bthorn9435

04-13-06, 11:48 AM

Does anyone know when either PCentral or PReviews is going to put up a review of the IN76?

JeffKB

04-13-06, 12:13 PM

After living with the IN76 for a while, I remounted my 4805 on the ceiling last night just to get an impression of the noise difference. After listening to the 4805 for a while, I took it down and mounted the IN76 back up to allow for a comparison.

It was immediately obvious that the IN76 is the quieter of the two, and to a noticeable degree. As I mentioned before, sound level differences aside, these projectors make different sounds. The IN76 is all air flow noise it seems. At the final fan speed for low lamp mode, color wheel noise is non-existent on the IN76 and I can't even seem to hear the fan. Just rushing air. With the 4805 I hear fan, air flow, AND color wheel noise. The color wheel noise is actually the most intrusive, since it's higher pitched.

In high lamp mode, the 4805 is significantly higher in noise levels than the IN76 in high lamp mode. Pretty cut and dried there.

If I had to pick the quieter between the 4805 in low lamp mode and the IN76 in high lamp mode, it would be a tough choice. Air flow/fan noise seems to be very close here, with the IN76 probably a little louder in that department and louder than I'd like. The IN76 doesn't have any color wheel noise however, so when that's factored in I'd probably have to vote for the IN76. Close call though. Remember however, this is with the 4805 in low lamp and the IN76 in high lamp. With both in low power the IN76 is the clear winner.

Having said that, people should manage their expectations here. Like all bulb based projectors, the IN76 does need to cool the lamp and the unfortunate side effect is noise. If you're watching a very quiet scene, you can clearly hear the projector if you listen for it. The same statement applies to every DLP and LCD projector out there however. None exist that don't create noise to at least some degree.

The point is that noise performance HAS been improved with the new line. Expect the projectors to be silent and you'll be disappointed though. Expect them to offer a reasonable improvement over prior models, and your expectations will be met. :)

JeffKB

04-13-06, 12:15 PM

Hi Bob - if you're starting a firmware update wishlist, put me down for tint control on all inputs (at the very least component). :)

I know you shouldn't need color controls when using HDMI/DVI, but the levels on my newly purchased Oppo seem to be slightly off for whatever reason. The firmware allows for saturation to be adjusted (and I've done that), but the tint needs to be adjusted as well. Since neither player nor projector offer tint adjustment, that presents a little problem. The Oppo may be going bye-bye.

Alimentall

04-13-06, 12:19 PM

Bob, I have one ceiling mount IN76 (out of eight) that is shutting down, apparently because of heat. It can get too hot to touch in places. Is there a software fix for this or is it a defect of some sort? It is running in a low fan speed, despite running very hot. I had the customer run it last night in high output mode to see if it worked better in that setting, but haven't heard back.

diggumsmax

04-13-06, 12:21 PM

IGN put a review of the IN76. It doesn't go into the details and they don't do the tests that people here are looking for but its still a review. You can find it here. http://gear.ign.com/articles/701/701496p1.html

billymac

04-13-06, 01:24 PM

jeff, that's awesome, thanks so much for writing that up. i'm stoked to hear that the in76 in high mode is close to the 4805 in low. something i can totally live with.

mine just showed up this morning and i can't wait to get home. :D

btw, are the 4805 screws the same for the in76?

Alimentall

04-13-06, 01:25 PM

kevivoe

04-13-06, 01:29 PM

Here's a quick update on my issue. Apparently it does *not* shut down if it's not plugged into a power strip. He used one power strip and one unfortunately low output (1.5A) isolation type device and it shut down with either, but running at the store or his house without works fine (thought it still gets pretty hot, just seemingly no hotter than the IN72).

Are you sure you are not getting an undervoltage?

Of course this would not affect heat in my opinion. "Hot" is such a unquantifiable term, can you measure different PJ's to be sure it is "hotter" than the rest?

k

kevivoe

04-13-06, 01:30 PM

New question.

How can I flip the gray covers so that InFocus reads upright when ceiling mounted? Is this possible?

k

Alimentall

04-13-06, 01:33 PM

Are you sure you are not getting an undervoltage?

Funny thing - it worked fine in high output mode.

Of course this would not affect heat in my opinion. "Hot" is such a unquantifiable term, can you measure different PJ's to be sure it is "hotter" than the rest?

Well, in each case, certain parts of the case are just a bit too hot to keep your hand on for more than a few seconds. It seems to be roughly the same.

JeffKB

04-13-06, 01:53 PM

billymac

04-13-06, 02:03 PM

Hey billymac - the screws are the same. M4s. The mounting points are different of course.

Enjoy your new toy! :D

Jeff

can the old flat mount that worked be retro'd to fit the in76 with a drill?

do any of the holes line up? just curious. would be nice to use it, but if not, i can use the premier octopus arm thingy, it's just that it adds about another 4" or so to the drop.

Bob Williams

04-13-06, 02:03 PM

Here's a quick update on my issue. Apparently it does *not* shut down if it's not plugged into a power strip. He used one power strip and one unfortunately low output (1.5A) isolation type device and it shut down with either, but running at the store or his house without works fine (thought it still gets pretty hot, just seemingly no hotter than the IN72).
It sounds like there may be some power problems. We test projectors down to 90 volts but they are only officially compatible with a minimum of 100 volts for design margin. I don't suppose someone could hook up a volt meter to see what kind of power is available?

Jonathan DA

04-13-06, 02:35 PM

Bob,

If I wanted to build a hush box around an IN76 to vent the heat into my attic, do you happen to have any specifications for what the ambient temperature inside the box should be?

script

04-13-06, 02:41 PM

Does any one else find the maximum resolution of the IN76 a little odd?

NoThru22

04-13-06, 03:01 PM

Does any one else find the maximum resolution of the IN76 a little odd?
No, what is odd? It's 1280x768 so that it can either display 1280x720 for home theater use or 1024x768 for PC/Presentation use.

script

04-13-06, 03:14 PM

Right, but the maximum res on its competitors are much higher.

BrandonJF

04-13-06, 03:20 PM

Right, but the maximum res on its competitors are much higher.

Which PJs are you considering it's competitors that are higher? Or are you referring to the maximum resolutions it will support? Because it will take a 1080p signal and downconvert it to 1280x720 just like it's competitors....

script

04-13-06, 03:26 PM

I’m talking about the max res, not the native. And when im referring to it's competitors im talking about the HD72, AE900 ect...

The reason this concerns someone like me is because I would like to throw a higher res signal from my computer without hafting to scale down my computers res every time I switch over for computer use.

*EDIT*:

Here is an example of maximum resolutions for a few projectors in the same class

HD72 = 1600x1200

TX200 = 1600x1200

Z4 = 1920x1080

IN76 = 1024x768

If this is true, it would keep someone like me from purchasing the PJ, I hope its some how incorrect.

danmetcalf

04-13-06, 04:03 PM

BrandonJF

04-13-06, 04:08 PM

I think you're misunderstanding max resolution INPUT and what the projector actually displays, ie: it's native resolution.

I know what he's getting it. Each manufacturer specifies the max data resolution it will accept. That IN76 value is wrong, though (or InFocus is). Infocus lists the max compatible data resolution at 1280 x 1024.

It sounds like he understands that it's going to scale down whatever input it gets to the native res, but Infocus' specs make it sound like the IN76 won't accept a resolution from a PC greater than 1280 x 1024.

billymac

04-13-06, 04:24 PM

script

04-13-06, 04:38 PM

A projector can only display resolution at it’s maximum physical means (native). But when you throw a higher res signal from a computer it will display at that higher res, wile it won’t truly be higher res than native, it will keep an aspect ratio as if it could really use that resolution. So your computer desktop looks like it is at a resolution above the native 1280 X 768.

So basically my point is that if I have a 92” computer screen I want to display a higher res (or in this case aspect) than the native. It’s a problem for the IN76 becouse the max is even worse than the native.

I like having a roomy desktop.

*Edit*:

I can’t describe it as well as I can illustrate it.

This is my father’s projector, a Proxima 6850.

Native resolution: 1024 X 768
Maximum resolution: 1280 X 1024

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2345/dscf5382downsized7wo.jpg

Native

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1883/dscf5383downsize2lm.jpg

Maximum

As you can see it displays the aspect like you really do have 1280 X 1024 screen.

As far as clarity, if I want to play a computer game I will probably set my computer to native res but for absolutely anything else I do on my computer I like to have a higher resolution.

billymac

04-13-06, 05:01 PM

okay, so let's say the IN76 won't do that, even those other PJs that will, you're going to lose picture quality, possibly suffer blurred text, etc. -- right? pretty sure about that. i understand what you're trying to achieve. basically the same thing as trying to sync 1280x720 on a 854x480p projector. i've done it, it looks crappy. but then again, if all you care about is real estate, then i get it. not trying to pick, just trying to understand.

billymac

04-13-06, 05:03 PM

Mitch P.

04-13-06, 05:13 PM

It sounds like the player is not outputting studio levels. To change the projector to PC levels, go into the color space menu and switch from auto to RGB. At that point the brightness and contrast controls will give you the ability to adjust through the full range.

thank you Bob, much appreciated! I'll try it tonight. If I do this however, do I need to have a preset saved for DVD mode and then switch back once I watch off of the HD tivo satellite box?

script

04-13-06, 05:15 PM

huh, okay, hard to tell from the pics, but is the text any clearer on the native res? if it isn't then i guess i stand corrected. maybe the examples i've seen are those that technically aren't supposed to support the res i've synced at, but do anyway.

I think you are correct technically however; the degradation from that small of an increase in res doesn’t really make the text blurrier from what I can tell. (Which is all I care about). It still looks ok on this 8yr old projector so I figured there would be even less of a difference on a modern machine.

Actually I might mention that my father has bad eyes and he says that he can actually read the text better on the higher res. I don’t really notice much difference between the two...

So I understand the IN76 stat is indeed incorrect? Any one know the true value?

ssj2

04-13-06, 05:22 PM

Bob Williams

04-13-06, 05:39 PM

thank you Bob, much appreciated! I'll try it tonight. If I do this however, do I need to have a preset saved for DVD mode and then switch back once I watch off of the HD tivo satellite box?
If they both go in through the same connector, then yes, you will need to save both as presets. If they are through different connectors then the settings will automatically be remembered for each connector.

Jonathan DA

04-13-06, 05:40 PM

Bob Williams

04-13-06, 05:44 PM

Bob,

If I wanted to build a hush box around an IN76 to vent the heat into my attic, do you happen to have any specifications for what the ambient temperature inside the box should be?
The ambient temperature should be no higher than 35C (95F) and the input and exhaust air should be separated to prevent recirculation. Also, the venting should be set up so that the pressure drop (both from the intake side and exhaust side) is no greater than the projector would experience in a normal free-air environment.

Bob Williams

04-13-06, 05:49 PM

Does any one else find the maximum resolution of the IN76 a little odd?

The actual maximum resolution is a little more complicated than the marketing people wanted to put on the web site. As long as the input pixel clock is less than 150 MHz and the resolution is a VESA standard resolution then there should be no problems syncing to it through either the digital or analog inputs.

script

04-13-06, 05:53 PM

script,

I can't guarantee this since I don't have my unit yet, but you should be able to send the IN76 a 1920x1080@60Hz signal from your PC over the HDMI input and it should sync just fine. If it will accept a 1080p HDTV signal over HDMI, it should accept a similar signal from your PC.

If you find yourself hooking your computer up to the IN76 for whatever reason maybe you could try it and let me know your results.

I’m ready to order either the IN76 or the HD72, the resolution thing was my biggest obstacle, the one other factor is brightness. Did any one ever figure out if the IN76 was brighter than the HD72? Some one said it was in another thread a wile ago.

The actual maximum resolution is a little more complicated than the marketing people wanted to put on the web site. As long as the input pixel clock is less than 150 MHz and the resolution is a VESA standard resolution then there should be no problems syncing to it through either the digital or analog inputs.

I don’t really understand all of the mhz stuff, but since you seem to have knowledge about it maybe you could tell me if my computer graphics card will provide the flexibility I need. It’s an ATI RADEON 9800PRO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102623)

billymac

04-13-06, 06:15 PM

Paul_Seng

04-13-06, 06:33 PM

If you find yourself hooking your computer up to the IN76 for whatever reason maybe you could try it and let me know your results.

I’m ready to order either the IN76 or the HD72, the resolution thing was my biggest obstacle, the one other factor is brightness. Did any one ever figure out if the IN76 was brighter than the HD72? Some one said it was in another thread a wile ago.

I don’t really understand all of the mhz stuff, but since you seem to have knowledge about it maybe you could tell me if my computer graphics card will provide the flexibility I need. It’s an ATI RADEON 9800PRO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102623)
Script, Bob is the lead engineer for the Infocus home PJ's. If you don't understand what he is saying, he is basically saying it will display any standard computer resolution while using a refresh rate of 150Hz or less (to compare your regular PC desktop monitor might be at 72-85HZ).
So, it will basically accept any resolution you throw at it (probably more so than the HD72 depending what VESA allows) plus some.

script

04-13-06, 06:35 PM

script

i'm staring at my new in76 right now and am chomping at the bit to leave early :)

i'll let you know tonight/tomorrow on the res. i'll be sticking with 1280x720, but what res are you after? 1280x768? 1920x1080?

I’m probably looking some where in the 1600s by whatever area. But right now I’m just looking for the max so id like to know what res it will accept before it errors. I don’t really plan on using it that high, I might end up staying with the native. I just want to have the ability should I ever want to increase the res for whatever reason. So what ever number above native you can give me would be great. Id also like to know what you think about the clarity at the higher res if your up to it.

I really appreciate you going through the trouble.

script

04-13-06, 06:42 PM

Script, Bob is the lead engineer for the Infocus home PJ's. If you don't understand what he is saying, he is basically saying it will display any standard computer resolution while using a refresh rate of 150Hz or less (to compare your regular PC desktop monitor might be at 72-85HZ).
So, it will basically accept any resolution you throw at it (probably more so than the HD72 depending what VESA allows) plus some.

Oh I see, the 150hz through me off because I have never seen anything so high. I figured it was some different type of value. So I guess that sufficiently answers my question, coming from an Infocus engineer himself. I didn’t expect to talk to some one on the infocus team directly. These boards are awesome! Thanks for the help

Now im torn on lumens (when will it end)

HiHoStevo

04-13-06, 06:44 PM

NoThru22

04-13-06, 07:02 PM

I can't imagine why anyone would run a PC to a projector at higher than it's native resolution. This projector looks fantastic at 1280x720.

JeffKB

04-13-06, 07:04 PM

JeffKB, are you able to use adjust TINT with an HDMI to HDMI connection?
Hi ssj2 - I only verified that a DVI-HDMI and 480i component connection do not allow for tint adjustment. I'd be shocked if HDMI-HDMI offered it if those don't however. Weird thing is the online user guide shows tint on the picture menu. Perhaps Bob can shed further light.

script

04-13-06, 07:11 PM

Script......

As you probably are aware, playing any of the "good" computer games at 1600x1200 with anti-aliasing or enhancements turned on takes some serious video horsepower. I have the 9800Pro also and while I am using an older BenQ projector (8700+), I do not think you will be really happy with the 1600x1200 style resolutions... Just my opinion of course... the screen refresh rates are just not good enough.

Mine is running Windows MCE and has as one of it's default resolutions 1280x720 which is what I use and prefer.

YMMV

as a point of interest... BenQ listed the max data resolution of the 8700+ as 1024x768.... although the projector synch's immediately to my pc outputing its native 1280x720.......... go figure......... I think Bob's statement that the marketing department does not want to confuse the masses is probably dead on!

Script... On the Lumens issue ....... I feel your pain....... I have seen reviews where they think the IN76 has more lumens and other reviews where they think the HD72 has higher lumens... It may be that they are very close and it depends on the bulb that is installed in the projector the reviewer gets his hands on.... I believe the bulbs are rated at +/- 20% which leaves a rather large gap... so if one reviewer received a bulb on the higher end and the other reviewer one of the bulbs on the lower end of the spec... well you see the delima!!

Yea I know, games weren’t really my main concern, I already know that I will be playing games at native. I have a 20” LCD widescreen for my desktop right now and at 1680 X 1050 my graphics card already cant keep up, I plan on replacing it sometime in the future. I really wanted it for other desk top things, I also wanted to be able to just simply switch from computer to projector with no res adjustments. Maybe this is unrealistic but now that I know it will accept it I will find out for myself.

Brightness

I emailed Art Feierman at projectorreviews.com and yesterday he told me that he would have his IN76 review up in 2-3 days. If any one will compare the two PJs it will be him. He always has a very detailed section on brightness in his reviews, complete with pictures and comparisons.

Right now it’s a waiting game, if word comes out that the brightness of the IN76 is > to the HD72 then im pulling the trigger on the IN76.

ssj2

04-13-06, 07:29 PM

Hi ssj2 - I only verified that a DVI-HDMI and 480i component connection do not allow for tint adjustment. I'd be shocked if HDMI-HDMI offered it if those don't however. Weird thing is the online user guide shows tint on the picture menu. Perhaps Bob can shed further light.

Thanks. I actually emailed Infocus a couple weeks back and asked about the availability of color and tint controls over both HDMI and DVI, and was told neither were available, which I thought didn't quite add up. Maybe they were half right!

jkim5453

04-13-06, 07:38 PM

Oh I see, the 150hz through me off because I have never seen anything so high...

Bob was referring to "pixel clock", which in a nutshell is how many pixels can be drawn/sec.

A quick rough math tells me the 150MHz pixel clock should be just fast enough with a little headroom left for 1920x1080 @60Hz.

I think the spec sheet lists acceptable vertical and horizontal refresh rate ranges.

JeffKB

04-13-06, 07:48 PM

Thanks. I actually emailed Infocus a couple weeks back and asked about the availability of color and tint controls over both HDMI and DVI, and was told neither were available, which I thought didn't quite add up. Maybe they were half right!
Ya - saturation control is definitely there for DVI-HDMI. Makes it a little frustrating when you can only get halfway there! :D

billymac

04-13-06, 09:26 PM

wow

nice upgrade

you know you did good when your 2.5 year old baby girl says wow daddy :D

impressed so far. she's diggin dora right now, so i'll write more later. a little bummed i couldn't sync my 6800GTO over hdmi, but oh well, luckily i had an m1/hdmi adapter. also had a slight scare with component, but turned out to be a shady switch box and once removed, the problem is gone. holy canoly this thing looks good folks.

billymac

04-13-06, 11:54 PM

okay, so i'm officially having a problem with my in76. probably just me, but please help if you have suggestions.

over component
hdtv is losing sync (occasionally), and both hd and regular tv is doing this weird thing at the top of the screen where it shifts left slightly and then back quickly. sometimes several times in a row. sometimes it happens just once in a while, sometimes it will continue for several seconds, and then sometimes it doesn't happen for a while. i have checked all my connections and have eliminated a VGA switchbox. i'm running component over a heavily shielded VGA cable and then using a component to DB15 VGA adapter. it worked before just fine for a couple years, so i question anybody pointing to the cables. any suggestions? i don't have the problem with pc over m1/hdmi adapter. unfortunately, i'm a little stuck here. it's pretty frustrating. i don't have anything other than a VGA and hdmi cable in the ceiling. oh yeah, the STB is a comcast motorola. if anybody can suggest where to start, please let me know.... thanks!

i should add, that the shift, is almost more like a bend, or stretch, it's not blocky. it like distorts or contorts to the left, fast like--and then back.

penn7

04-14-06, 07:55 AM

billymac:

I'm not using component, but was reading the manual yesterday. From the advanced menu under the picture tab:

Sync Threshold Adjust: (progressive signals only) If a hardware device, such as a DVD player, is not syncing properly with the projector, adjust this option to help it to sync when connected to the projector.

Don't know if that's your problem, worth a try.

billymac

04-14-06, 09:56 AM

thanks penn, you are my hero!!!!!!!

that did the trick

now i just have to learn korean so i can read the manual ;)

must be up online, i'll look at it there...thanks again for taking the time to respond. i was a little worried.

jvos

04-14-06, 11:33 AM

if word comes out that the brightness of the IN76 is > to the HD72 then im pulling the trigger on the IN76.

Script - the predominate opinion is that the IN76 is almost TOO bright, so what is your situation that lumens are so important? BTW, I've always questioned buying based on specs, which don't necessary correlate to PQ. Are you really saying that if one PJ is 10% more (which is barely perceptable to the human eye) that it will drive a purchasing decision?

kevivoe

04-14-06, 11:52 AM

Script - the predominate opinion is that the IN76 is almost TOO bright, so what is your situation that lumens are so important? BTW, I've always questioned buying based on specs, which don't necessary correlate to PQ. Are you really saying that if one PJ is 10% more (which is barely perceptable to the human eye) that it will drive a purchasing decision?

My IN76 is not too bright. Given a specific screen size and gain you'd rather have more lumens than too few when your PJ is new. You can tame these lumens with a filter if you so choose.

However if you buy a PJ that does not have the lumens and your screen size and gain is fixed there is not much you can do to get the ftL you need. It is best to err on the "plenty of lumens" side of this problem.

k

Alimentall

04-14-06, 12:01 PM

What do the words "too bright" mean? I don't understand......

billymac

04-14-06, 12:33 PM

too bright that's funny. is there such a thing? if there is, sign me up, i want one. :D

one thing i did notice last night however during CSI though, is that my white ceilings are killing my contrast ratio. last night's episode had a ton of dark scenes and my shadow detail suffered pretty hard from it because along with the dark scenes they had like these bright lights in the background. those lights were bounching off my ceilings and killing my blacks and shadow detail. so much so that i may try an ND2 filter to see if it helps a little. understand though, i have just under 8' ceilings though, so that isn't helping me any. there's no way my wife is going to let me paint the ceiling. LOL. not in a million years. :p

it really throws a terrific image, right out of the box. i haven't messed with any of the settings and probably won't. except the sync threshold thing that penn helped me with. thanks again buddy!

happy friday everybody!

geocab

04-14-06, 12:36 PM

there's no way my wife is going to let me paint the ceiling. LOL. not in a million years.

I know exactly what you mean!

billymac

04-14-06, 12:38 PM

hey also i wanted to backup someone elses statement above about the focus on the in76. it's awesome. i'm able to get all four corners spot on along with the center...something i couldn't do with the 4805. sure is nice having 1280x720 real estate.

Mitch P.

04-14-06, 12:49 PM

penn7

04-14-06, 12:51 PM

billymac: you're welcome. Its nice to finally be able to help someone after just rading all these years. I've noticed the glare off the ceiling too, but there is a glimmer of hope about painting it. Our bedroom is a chocolate brown and I'm going to try to get designer approval to paint the whole room that shade using flat instead of eggshell.

Back to the IN76, if you need the manual I can email it to you. about 900k in size.

This is my first projector and I'm loving every minute I get to watch it....

jvos

04-14-06, 01:18 PM

When I constantly read "ND2 filter", it says to me its too bright. You wouldn't use a lumen reducing filter if it was dim.

kevivoe

04-14-06, 01:25 PM

billymac

04-14-06, 01:27 PM

you could just rig up some black felt on the ceiling next to the screen? Have it hang at the screen like a horizontal drape? Then unroll it to cover the first 10' of ceiling and hook it to some eye-hooks when it's movie time? Might work...

yeah, that's a good idea. i might look into it. don't get me wrong, i'm not complaining at all. i love this thing so far. what was funny was that when i set it up it was about 5:00 p.m. and there was some slight ambient light in the room from some far off windows and i swear my CR was actually a little higher at that time because there was less reflection from the ceiling. could be mental though.

kevivoe

04-14-06, 01:29 PM

When I constantly read "ND2 filter", it says to me its too bright. You wouldn't use a lumen reducing filter if it was dim.

I don't use a filter. The point is you have the option if it is too bright.

What projector are you using now? If you are still trying to decide on a projector you would not be dissappointed with the IN76. It is good ... but I reserve fantastic for DC3 based PJ's. It is good resolution ... but I reserve fantastic for 1080 PJ's.

Seeig the difference from 480p PJ to the 720p IN76 means I yearn for the day when I put up a 1080p machine. The IN78 most likely.

k

billymac

04-14-06, 01:33 PM

When I constantly read "ND2 filter", it says to me its too bright. You wouldn't use a lumen reducing filter if it was dim.

again, i have to point out that my statements and situation are unique to me because of my environment and room characteristics. your deduction that it is "too bright' is really unfonded. i wouldn't have bought it if it was dim either :)

HiHoStevo

04-14-06, 02:09 PM

Many people like a really "bright" plasma like image...

Others want a "bright" projector because as we all know, the bulbs dim moderately quickly down to their eventual 50% of new and then seem to stabilize there for the second half or 2/3 of their life. With this situation you can apply a filter when the bulb is new and then remove it at approx half-life and have a fairly consistent level of brightness over the life of the bulb. I have seen folks on the IF7210 thread talking about using an ND3 or 4 filter when the bulb is new then stepping down to an ND2, then finally removing the filter in an attempt to maintain a very consistent level of brightness.

Others of us want a bright projector because we belong to the "bigger must be better" club! :-) I find that I am one of the unfortunate members of this little community... my current screen is 110" with a seating area in a "V" shape that varies from 15' to 11.5' and I find myself wishing my screen was a little bigger... I tend to find the larger images more "immersive" both in movies and when someone is running up trying to "butt-stroke" me in Halo! (my son is just too darn good at that!)

The thing is... if you have a "bright" projector you have options... which makes a "bright" projector something that many of us are interested in... which is why you will see questions and comments about "which is brighter... projector A or projector B...

There are other groups for which Contrast is the be all and end all (Darin are you listening)........ hey isn't it great that we have options nowdays... and these forums to help us all with our particular addiction............ :-)

billymac

04-14-06, 02:21 PM

well said hihostevo

jkim5453

04-14-06, 03:11 PM

I found one post in this thread that someone ordered a Chief RPA-U along with the PJ.

How many of you are using the RPA-U with IN7x? How's it working out for you?

Mitch P.

04-14-06, 03:24 PM

I'm using the RPA-U, together with the ceiling plate (CPA - 105), lateral shift mount (LSB-100) and it's working out quite well so far. I could only get three legs to mount to the RPA-U but that's sufficient.

In order to get the correct offset, I went to Home Depot and got a section of NPT cut and threaded for me, and finished up the install two days ago. Looks awesome!

billymac

04-14-06, 03:25 PM

i'd also like to know about the chief mount. i specifically want to know what the distance is to the top or center of the lens with this mount. it's very important to me because i'm considering replacing my panny 700 upstairs with an IN72 and it has to be pretty snug to the ceiling because of the offset.

i just looked at the picture online, that isn't going to cut it for me. is there anything that will get me closer?

jkim5453

04-14-06, 03:47 PM

I'm using the RPA-U, together with the ceiling plate (CPA - 105), lateral shift mount (LSB-100) and it's working out quite well so far. I could only get three legs to mount to the RPA-U but that's sufficient.

Thanks, Mitch. I didn't know about the lateral shift mount - very helpful info.

... Looks awesome!

So you say. Where are the pictures? :D

Mitch P.

04-14-06, 03:52 PM

you can get all of the technical drawings from the Chief website and then add it up yourself. That's what I did. Then, use the install instructions which Bob posted up to get the additional offset from the base of the IN76 to the center of the lense. I had all of my calculations done before I received the pj or mount.

Then, I estimated what I needed from Home Depot to get it to the correct height. I also estimated the center position of the lense to be in the middle position of the lateral mount to allow for any mistakes. It all ended up being so close that I didn't have to adjust more than 1" laterally as well as a few degrees of tilt to account for my non-flat ceiling :)

Pics will be a li'l later :)

billymac

04-14-06, 04:05 PM

what does the HDMI dcp thingy do in the service menu? it's checked by default.

i'm wondering if this is why i couldn't sync my htpc over hdmi last night...

Tnedator

04-14-06, 04:35 PM

In order to get the correct offset, I went to Home Depot and got a section of NPT cut and threaded for me, and finished up the install two days ago. Looks awesome!

Never thought of Home Depot. What color was the pipe? I hade purchased a 12" length of pipe from a local contractor shop (plumping, lighting, cabling, etc.) and it was blackish, rustish and dang heavy. I used that when I hung the Panny 900, before returning it.

I should have my IN76 a week from Monday and think I will need to drop my mount 3-4", which will mean I will need a 6-7" pipe (currently my Peerless mount has about a 3-4" pipe between the arm I have coming out from the wall and the actual projector mount.

billymac

04-14-06, 04:46 PM

what does the HDMI dcp thingy do in the service menu? it's checked by default.

i'm wondering if this is why i couldn't sync my htpc over hdmi last night...

well billy....
HDMI DDC: turns off the EDID extension. Some graphic cards cannot recognize the projector’s EDID. Uncheck this box if you have trouble using HDMI or DVI sources.

huh, htpc probably not going to work over hdmi if i have to turn edid off, then huh? guess i'll have to wait until i get home to find out.

Dogwood

04-14-06, 05:59 PM

Never thought of Home Depot. What color was the pipe? I hade purchased a 12" length of pipe from a local contractor shop (plumping, lighting, cabling, etc.) and it was blackish, rustish and dang heavy. I used that when I hung the Panny 900, before returning it.

I have used the Cheif RPAU mount also and am very pleased with it. I Didn't buy the Cheif ceiling plate and instead used a ordinary 1.5" pipe flange. The pipe extension that I had cut to a specific length at a local plumbing supply shop, I painted with Rustoleum Muticolored Textured paint (color Aged Iron - 2 coats). It came out looking very nice and I found the chief mount very easy to fine tune the image to my screen.

Mitch P.

04-14-06, 06:14 PM

Never thought of Home Depot. What color was the pipe? I hade purchased a 12" length of pipe from a local contractor shop (plumping, lighting, cabling, etc.) and it was blackish, rustish and dang heavy. I used that when I hung the Panny 900, before returning it.

I should have my IN76 a week from Monday and think I will need to drop my mount 3-4", which will mean I will need a 6-7" pipe (currently my Peerless mount has about a 3-4" pipe between the arm I have coming out from the wall and the actual projector mount.

it was regular steel? So shiny silver. I just put a black cable run/nylon cover over it and now it matches both the chief mount and projector.

http://home.comcast.net/~mitchell.phillipi/Pics/Ceiling_mount_IN76.JPG

Bob Williams

04-14-06, 06:15 PM

well billy....
HDMI DDC: turns off the EDID extension. Some graphic cards cannot recognize the projector’s EDID. Uncheck this box if you have trouble using HDMI or DVI sources.

huh, htpc probably not going to work over hdmi if i have to turn edid off, then huh? guess i'll have to wait until i get home to find out.
Actually, this situation is exactly what the toggle was designed for. Some PC graphics cards do not like HDMI EDID extensions (particularly some nVidia cards), so if you uncheck this box then the EDID becomes an ordinary DVI-D EDID.

Paul_Seng

04-14-06, 07:49 PM

I know it's been stated before on this thread. I just can't find it: When mounting the IN76, can it use the same mount that the 7200's use?
Thanks in advance

billymac

04-14-06, 08:15 PM

Actually, this situation is exactly what the toggle was designed for. Some PC graphics cards do not like HDMI EDID extensions (particularly some nVidia cards), so if you uncheck this box then the EDID becomes an ordinary DVI-D EDID.

thanks bob, much appreciated. just got home, going to check it out. i bet it will work then.

does anybody know what the lens distance from ceiling is with the SP-CEIL-UNIV mount?

that chief isn't going to cut it for me. the infocus appears to be less, but i can't tell from the pics and it doesn't have any details on the site. i need it to be as close as possible and i really don't want to do homegrown --i'm not talented enough for that ;)

bthorn9435

04-14-06, 09:10 PM

http://www.projectorcentral.com/infocus_play_big_in76.htm

The review for the IN76 has been posted!

Tnedator

04-14-06, 10:12 PM

http://www.projectorcentral.com/infocus_play_big_in76.htm

The review for the IN76 has been posted!

I had checked a little after noon and it wasn't up.

Overall it seems to have gotten a good review, but not great. Since I watch so much TV, I am a little worried about the comments about how well it deinterlaces video sourced material. However, I keep telling myself it has to be at least as good, and probably better, then my BenQ 6100 on which I watch 90% of my standard def TV currently.

billymac

04-14-06, 10:13 PM

http://www.projectorcentral.com/infocus_play_big_in76.htm

The review for the IN76 has been posted!

someone needs to let the guy who wrote that review know that "street price" doesn't mean msrp. ;)

either he didn't do much looking, or he's been sitting on that review for a LONG time and just finally got around to posting it. :D

:)

Alimentall

04-14-06, 10:26 PM

"Street price" equals "what I want to pay".

Anyway, I finally have a pet peeve that should be fixable in software. My IN74 won't expand a letterboxed 4:3 image to 16:9. So I'm seeing a letterbox within sidebars with some material.

RTK

04-14-06, 11:16 PM

is there any issue using a panamorph lens with an IN76 because of the recessed lens design?

JeffKB

04-14-06, 11:55 PM

is there any issue using a panamorph lens with an IN76 because of the recessed lens design?
Hi Rick - you didn't mention which Panamorph lens you had in mind, but if you're referring to the P752 you should be OK. I have a P752 and even though I'm still in the process of completing my setup, I did try out the lens with the IN76 briefly. I was throwing a 112" diagonal image from around 14' and the beam was not too big for the Panamorph. It was filling most of the lens, but there was room to spare. The lens was 1/4" from the projector.

One thing I did notice was a little more barrel distortion than what I was used to with the P752 and my old projector, the 4805. I assume this was because I was using a longer throw ratio with the 4805. I have to wait until I can set it up properly to decide if this is a deal breaker. On the plus side, the image did seem to become smoother and more film-like with the lens in place. I didn't spend enough time watching to really come to a definite conclusion though.

JeffKB

04-15-06, 12:02 AM

Anyway, I finally have a pet peeve that should be fixable in software. My IN74 won't expand a letterboxed 4:3 image to 16:9. So I'm seeing a letterbox within sidebars with some material.
Are you saying the letterbox mode on the IN74 will not blow up a non-anamorphic letterboxed 2.35:1 DVD? I haven't tried doing that on the IN76 yet...

jkim5453

04-15-06, 04:57 AM

My IN76 arrived yesterday morning at the office - the day just wasn't short enough. :)

Since I don't have a HDMI-HDMI cable of necessary length, yet, I connected it to my SA8300HD DVR's HDMI port using an existing M1-DVI-D cable via DVI-HDMI adapter and viewed some HD material for a couple of hours. It looked great - perceptibly better than HD on my 4805. I also liked being able to sit 11' back from my 92" screen and still get a clear picture. It looks good to me until about 8 to 9' away from the screen, but 11' feet seems to be the sweet spot for me in terms of picture size. According to HDNet test patterns, absolutely no contrast/adjustment was necessary.

One oddity: when I tried some SD channels, the M1 port didn't see any signal. Going through the SA8300HD display setup, it seems M1 only recognizes 480p or higher, so I just set the STB to output only 1080i and 720p and handle scaling of lower res signals before outputting them. I wonder if the HDMI input also behaves the same way.

Then I connected the DVI-D end to my laptop and watched "Narnia" DVD. I manually set the "Color Space" to "RGB Video" because the default "RGB" (automatically detected) was way too washed out. At "RGB Video", the default contrast was way too high, so it required some reduction. It looked great, too, but, after seeing how much better HD material is, I now realize that DVD resolution just isn't that great (I think I see an upgrade to HD-DVD/BR, soon :D ). Many 4805 owners stated that HD on 4805 looked better than DVD on 4805, but I didn't feel that way. There's no question with IN76 in that regard. I don't think I'll have 1080i-envy for quite some time. My next reason for upgrade wouldn't be resolution but some significant advances in supporting technology at price-performance level I can be comfortable with. Brighter, longer-lasting, more energy-efficient lamps rate higher in my book than 1080p, for example, and improved versions of 100" SuperNova DNP / SI Visage at $999.99 would be super, too. :)

Also, the added resolution - compared to the 4805 - actually makes it very usable as a second monitor at 1280x720. I also tried outputting 1080i through the computer, and IN76 scaling was surprisingly good enough to display small font texts pretty clearly.

For about 4.5 hrs, I was in that happy place in Geekdom - extremely happy that all the qualities I wanted in this upgrade was there - including the noise factor.

Now the bad news: the PJ shut itself off. I waited a bit until it shutdown completely and turned it back on. Now, it's displaying nothing through the M1-DA input. My laptop senses the display and acts like it's got a second monitor in expanded desktop mode (i.e. the mouse disappears off the edge, etc.) but all I get is blank screen. I connected the DVI-D end back to the HDMI adapter to the set-top box, but that's not longer working, either.

The STB also clearly thinks it's connected to a functioning HDMI device because the STB component video output was shut off. That's how my SA8300HD works (Austin, TX, Time Warner Cable) - if HDMI is enabled and an HDMI cable is plugged in, it only outputs to HDMI but doesn't output concurrently to component video; if HDMI cable is connected but display isn't on or if handshake fails, then it displays an error message through HDMI and enables component video output. So, I have source devices thinking they're connected to a functioning display, but IN76 is acting like there's no signal, or the source device is off, or that the cable isn't even connected.

It's very perplexing because my 4805's M1-DVI-D port died the same way (except it didn't shutdown on me - one night it was fine, next evening it just went blank when I turned it on.) There had been a few other 4805 owners with the same problem.

I really like this PJ, but I want that M1-DVI-D working - I was really looking forward to use both digital inputs and it was a buying-decision factor: HDMI permanently connected to STB, and M1-DVI-D for the laptop. Short honeymoon, so to speak. I'll be contacting InFocus, but I'm a bit worried because people who had the same problem with 4805 had trouble getting InFocus to correctly diagnose the problem - having their units sent back unrepaired because they'd pass the tests using test signals. It's all annecdotal to me at this point, though. We'll see.

The HD PQ is still great using component video - but it's definitely better with digital connection. The difference was marginal with 4805 but perceptible. With the IN76, the difference is much more definite. The added brightness is a big bonus, since 90% of my viewing is for evening TV watching with normal lighting. Overall, it's a very worth-while upgrade from the 4805.

Where was I? Oh, yeah... That stupid M1-DVI-D ;) .

bthorn9435

04-15-06, 09:01 AM

Noticed that a new firmware has been posted on Infocus's website for the IN72. It fixes some of things mentioned earlier in this thread. A major correction being the source lockup that was occuring.
:)

v2.5

14-April-2006

* Improvements to video syncing table
* HDMI video codes corrected (1-34)
* Fixed interlaced computer sources image shift.
* Fixed no image issue after 4 hour sleep mode was initialized.
* Added M1 and HDMI in HDMI DDC option.
* Fixed lockup issues when disabling all "source enables" except for one, then power cycling unit.
* Corrected hue shift in the black levels for component video inputs.
* Removed fan speed increase during power down.
* Fixed vertical position jump, when aspect ratio is set to crop top and bottom of the image.

billymac

04-15-06, 09:59 AM

Actually, this situation is exactly what the toggle was designed for. Some PC graphics cards do not like HDMI EDID extensions (particularly some nVidia cards), so if you uncheck this box then the EDID becomes an ordinary DVI-D EDID.

thanks again bob, worked like a charm. shows up as infocus in76-h now :)

this thing is SWEET!

NoThru22

04-15-06, 12:04 PM

The IN76 will accept 480i over HDMI.

bthorn9435

04-15-06, 12:34 PM

Has anyone posted a review of the IN72? If there are any owners out there please post your impressions of this unit vs 4805, H31, or anything else that you may have to compare it with.

Bigoober

04-15-06, 02:35 PM

Quick first impressions from a new IN76 owner-

This is my first projector upgrading from a Sony 57" rear projection HDTV. I have the projector hooked up via HDMI through a new Denon 3806 and a new Oppo DVD player. I haven't done any tweaking other than setting up the receiver to output through the HDMI and input through the HDMI. Right now, I am projecting onto a white sheet (yes, a sheet) while I try out a couple of samples for the screen I will be buying this week.

First movie was "Pirates of the Carribean", a favorite of my wife's which I figured would show some great bright scenes while offering a good share of dark, shadowy scenes.

I ceiling mounted via a Chief universal mount. I found out that ceiling mounting is not the easiest thing to do, not because of the mount, but because of my need for perfection and never doing this before. Measure and remeasure, but I think I got it down pretty good. The Chief actually ended up being pretty easy with adjustments being even easier.

I feel sorry for the 4805 owners if the IN76 is quieter. Mounting in my basement with no other noise than ambient, I thought the thing was loud when I first turned it on. I did check to make sure it wasn't in high mode- it wasn't as it did get louder when I went to high lamp mode. I was a little worried with the noise. It was louder than my laptop when the fan is going normally, but it wasn't as loud as my laptop when the laptop is churning at high speed. The fan noise wasn't even a factor though throughout the entire movie as I didn't notice it once.

The picture is amazing even on a sheet. I didn't notice how much softer the sheet made the picture until I put the samples up and saw the difference. The picture is VERY sharp on the screen samples. The picture is also very bright. I was worried that it would be too bright even projecting a 110" image, but it wasn't. It was more like what I wish theaters would be like as I think most are too dim.

My theater is more of an entertaining area with a white ceiling, the top half of the walls cream and the bottom half a dark brown. The projector lights up the room fairly well with the reflections. I am deciding between a white and grey screen. With the white, the skin tones were amazing but the dark colors could be a little washed out in brighter scenes. With the grey, the depth was absolutely amazing, but the skin tones went a tad blue. I'll have to research if the skin tones can be corrected with a calibration since I am leaning towards the grey screen.

As mentioned in the paragraph above. The skin tones are absolutely amazing with the white screen. Colors were also very well done except in the bright scenes, but this is mostly due to my viewing area I believe. With a grey screen, shadows and dark colors were very detailed I thought.

Hope this helps some of the people waiting on what others are experiencing. Sorry I don't have previous projector experience to compare this with (only bit I have is watching a 7205 in Best Buy for 30 minutes in a darkened room- I thought this beat the socks off that projector although there are tons of variables there). I haven't hit any of the problems others are mentioning. The fan is non-existent when watching anything. I would give it a buy as both my wife and I were giggling the entire night with glee thinking how lucky we are to be able to have this setup in our house.

Not such a quick review after all and more than happy to try to answer any questions.

Forgot a couple of things-

billymac, I have a 7'8" ceiling and needed a mount close to the ceiling. This one does well with the lens about 5" from the ceiling. It works for me

Lmuller1

04-15-06, 04:48 PM

smyth22

04-15-06, 06:20 PM

Did they cite any particular problems with the Mits? Thought it would be recommended if the AE900 was.

kevivoe

04-15-06, 10:07 PM

Got my new S&V mag today with an 8 pj shootout. Includes: BenQ PE7700, Hitachi HDPJ52, Infocus IN76, Mitsubishi HC3000U, Optoma HD72, Panasonic AE900U, Samsung SP-H710AE and Sharp XV-Z3000.

Recommended were: IN76, HD72, AE900U, andH710AE

Best value was the panasonic AE900u with the HD72 as runner-up.
Best Picture H710AE with runner up IN76.

Of course, they have the HD72 listed street for 2g's and the IN76 for 3g's street as (unfortunately) expected. :confused:

You can buy the IN76 with full factory warranty for less than 10% more than an HD72 street price. I will not violate forum rules by saying all of the places but some people just DO NOT investigate their purchase options.

k

script

04-15-06, 10:38 PM

Did they cite any particular problems with the Mits? Thought it would be recommended if the AE900 was.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1434/cap212yd.jpg

Lindahl

04-16-06, 01:38 AM

Any chance you could post the rest of the article? ;)

jkim5453

04-16-06, 01:55 AM

... review article scan ...

What's his definition of a back-lit remote?

script

04-16-06, 02:38 AM

Here is the whole article, you might need to save it to your computer and zoom in on the text to read it, and it will still be a little fuzzy.

Page 1 (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1779/page12aj.jpg)

Page 2 (http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2398/page27qr.jpg)

Page 3 (http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3949/page31tf.jpg)

Page 4 (http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8992/page41mv.jpg)

Page 5 (http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4619/page58cn.jpg)

smyth22

04-16-06, 03:12 AM

Thanks Scipt: interesting take on the Mits; certainly havent seen those comments re grey scale in other reviews.

Cheers
Peter

Lmuller1

04-16-06, 07:32 AM

Kevivoe, not sure how to take your post about street price (were you thinking I was agreeing with the quoted street price?). My street price comment concerning the HD72 vs. the IN76 was meant to convey exactly what you stated. Apparently the reviewer is following most of the other reviews I've seen out there and posting 3g's street for IN76 hence my comment. It was actually the first thing I noticed/looked for before reading the review since I have seen this over and over.

I know about all the power buys and in fact live 15 minutes from Jason (Rochester, N.Y.)
Pete

DaGamePimp

04-16-06, 07:43 AM

Thanks Scipt: interesting take on the Mits; certainly havent seen those comments re grey scale in other reviews.

Cheers
Peter

Exactly , they must have had a bum HC3000 because after ISF calibration it is about as accurate as it gets (on all counts) .

I also know what probably caused them to say they could not fully resolve a 720p pattern . They probably did not catch the default Overscan setting and left it at 97% (vs. setting it to 100%) . This would cause a less detailed image . So it was their own set-up error and not a fault of the HC3000 .

---------- Jason

Lmuller1

04-16-06, 08:58 AM

Also of note concerning the S&V mag. is that every month they list their picks for "The best gear to buy right now" and this list changed completely from last months picks to the same as their reviews this month (H-710AE, IN76, HD72 and AE900U).

This is their synopsis for each:

Samsung SP-H710AE DLP Front Projector $3500

Designed with help from video guru Joe Kane, it costs more than its "budget" competition but delivers super accurate color.

Infocus Play Big IN76 DLP Front Projector $3000

Powerful light output, excellent greyscale and color reproduction, sharp detail, and a slick, sci-fi design.

Optoma HD-72 DLP Front Projector $2000

Its low price and solid performance make this Optoma one of the great bargains in HDTV front projectors.

Panasonic AE900U LCD Front Projector $1800

Thanks to deep blacks and good shadow detail, this high-def LCD projector is a tremendous value.

Just thought I would post this since the rest of the article has been scanned in but this is in a seperate section.

Please don't shoot the messenger :rolleyes: I'm just adding more info. for all of us and put no more weight on these reviews than others. The trick is to take them ALL and look for common ground.
As stated above, the "street prices are what this guy lists and we all know that certainly the pan (can you say rebate) and the IN can be purchased for much less. Take a look at other Mitsu reviews and you won't find some of the "issues" that came up with that unit.

Also, of the top 4 units, the IN76 is the newest release and it's not like this magazine article was printed up yesterday morning and they slapped the mag. together in an hour and personally delivered it to their subscribers homes. That's why they print corrections the next month....could be we might just see some pricing info. changes next month.... ;)

crussader

04-16-06, 02:33 PM

crussader

04-16-06, 02:36 PM

Regarding the use of the ND2 filter, doesn't turning down the brightness setting in the menu accomplish the same thing?

I am also currious whether the brightness setting affects lamp life. At this point I'm assuming it doesn't.

ssj2

04-16-06, 02:55 PM

Turning down brightness (lower than when properly calibrated) serves only to crush blacks and reduce contrast. An ND2 filter (or other value) is much preferred for lower light output.

krasmuzik

04-16-06, 04:39 PM

Exactly , they must have had a bum HC3000 because after ISF calibration it is about as accurate as it gets (on all counts) .

I also know what probably caused them to say they could not fully resolve a 720p pattern . They probably did not catch the default Overscan setting and left it at 97% (vs. setting it to 100%) . This would cause a less detailed image . So it was their own set-up error and not a fault of the HC3000 .

---------- Jason

Probably not a bum unit - just a bum calibrator. I doubt S&V is paying someone with my skills and experience :D

For those that do not know - I am DaGamePimp's local Infocus dealer - so if I say the Mitsu is perfect when calibrated I lose a more profitable IN76 sale. The only worse videophile around these parts then me - is Jason.

I cannot disagree with their rankings though - the average S&V reader is not a videophile which is why they don't show calibration charts. If you mention that a box needs calibration - their readers scurry. So it is no surprise that the best picture award goes to the two boxes that calibration is nothing more than a perfectionist fine tune - rather than being required to dig out the potential of the box.

ihavecookie

04-16-06, 04:47 PM

krasmuzik

04-16-06, 04:52 PM

I have more of a technical question now. When I want to upgrade the firmware, I need a cable that runs from my computer to my projector. Infocus has the "vga/USB" to "m1/DVI" cable. Since DVI can carry a usb signal, can I straight up hook my dvi cable output on my video card to the dvi input on the projector? Or do I have to have the "usb/vga output" to "DVI/m1 input" connection?

I was not aware that DVI carried USB - certainly my DVI monitor has a seperate connector for USB - so I doubt they would have done that if DVI supported it? I was under the impression this is a feature set of the M1DA connector. At any rate you need any M1DA connector to something/USB. The something need not be something your display or source supports - you are just using the USB connector. The VGA/USB is the cheapest cable - so buy it just for firmware upgrades.

ihavecookie

04-16-06, 05:04 PM

I was not aware that DVI carried USB - certainly my DVI monitor has a seperate connector for USB - so I doubt they would have done that if DVI supported it? I was under the impression this is a feature set of the M1DA connector. At any rate you need any M1DA connector to something/USB. The something need not be something your display or source supports - you are just using the USB connector. The VGA/USB is the cheapest cable - so buy it just for firmware upgrades.

Yes, you are right. The M1DA carries the USB signal. My problem is that my computer is about 50 ft away from my projector. Without moving either one, I was wondering if I could get the M1DA to USB/VGA connector and hook up my USB wireless network to it? Do I have to have the VGA connected for it to work?

sethk

04-16-06, 05:54 PM

Sad that a professional magazine would do such a poor job of calibrating and choosing a setup (80" screen?) - BUT it is a valuable lesson for people buying a projector and not planning to have it calibrated. If this is your intention, as the magazine recommends, the projectors that are closest to calibrated out of the box may be your best choice. If you are willing to have it professionally done or have the tweaking skills and willingness to buy a colorimeter, you should be able to maximize one of the other projectors at which point the out of the box comparison is of less value.
The only thing I took out of that comparison is how good the projectors perform out of the box with some basic calibration.

NoThru22

04-16-06, 06:53 PM

The only worse videophile around these parts then me - is Jason.
Then why'd he buy the Mitsubishi? Ba dum, chish! :D

krasmuzik

04-16-06, 09:27 PM

Then why'd he buy the Mitsubishi? Ba dum, chish! :D

Because he has access to a local calibrator that is better than those that S&V used ? :D Out of the box quality is not a concern for DaGamePimp - only the post krasmuzik results are...but then he has not seen a post krasmuzik IN76 yet...

krasmuzik

04-16-06, 09:29 PM

Yes, you are right. The M1DA carries the USB signal. My problem is that my computer is about 50 ft away from my projector. Without moving either one, I was wondering if I could get the M1DA to USB/VGA connector and hook up my USB wireless network to it? Do I have to have the VGA connected for it to work?

I am not convinced the wireless USB will work - but try it. If not USB extension cords are cheap & common. The VGA does not get connected during firmware update.

Spiked

04-16-06, 10:50 PM

Even if it would work, I would stay away from ever doing any kind of firmware update via wireless.

Unless these new PJs have some kind of tech that keeps them from being munged with a bad firmware uprade, any loss in signal or other problem over this wireless connection, and you could end up with a shiny new brick of a pj.

kevivoe

04-17-06, 08:55 AM

...but then he has not seen a post krasmuzik IN76 yet...

Are you telling us that an ISF calibration on an IN76 will improve it's picture above an ISF calibrated HC3000U?

What is your definition of improved?

Contrast ratio and lumens at best picture mode with a reference 1.3 gain screen?

I checked your website last week expecting to see post calibration CR and Lumens for each PJ you worked up. Were you not going to post these results?

I am interested in your numbers on the same screen for these 2 boxes (HC3000U and IN76) not that it matters to much to me. I think to see a large difference you would have to go to a DC3 based DLP.

k

bald

04-17-06, 10:36 AM

Noticed that a new firmware has been posted on Infocus's website for the IN72 ...

* Removed fan speed increase during power down.

What was the reason for this change? I know it sounds like a little motor boat inside the box when this occurs, but it seems very effective in cooling down the lamp.

I'm only speculating, but I wonder if it is because cooling the lamp more slowly (without the fan speed increase) is less stressful on the lamp than a rapid cooling. I know this was true (via Bob Williams) for the X1 (thus the recommendation for the hard power off), but have not seen it commented on for the INxx series, or any other recent projector for that matter.

Or maybe someone important just found the motorboat annoying :)

bald

ciotime

04-17-06, 11:51 AM

Alimentall

04-17-06, 12:05 PM

I had a Vutec Gray Dove and I felt it was just a bit too dark. Like an idiot, I decided to try the Vutec"Brite White" and now it's too bright. My partner doesn't like the Silver Star because he feels there's a slight color shift, but it still has, IMO, the best look because it does the best job of deflecting ambient light in the room. On the Brite White, the blacks get washed out, probably because I have white walls everywhere. I will probably try hanging something on my back wall to absorb some of the primary reflection. I think FireHawk is great except that it's too dark. If they came out with a lighter version, that would be a great option too. If you can't go for a Silver Star, get matte white, or a slight tint, I think.

krasmuzik

04-17-06, 01:36 PM

Are you telling us that an ISF calibration on an IN76 will improve it's picture above an ISF calibrated HC3000U?

What is your definition of improved?

Contrast ratio and lumens at best picture mode with a reference 1.3 gain screen?

I checked your website last week expecting to see post calibration CR and Lumens for each PJ you worked up. Were you not going to post these results?

I am interested in your numbers on the same screen for these 2 boxes (HC3000U and IN76) not that it matters to much to me. I think to see a large difference you would have to go to a DC3 based DLP.

k

NO I am saying I have just not calibrated the IN76 yet....so don't read anything into anything until you have all the information. I don't measure screens for projector reviews - I measure a standard 2' image so that the reviews are comparable. You can then take the lumens and convert to desired ftL for your screen. I don't use the screen because I don't do subjective reviews - nothing but the objective perceptual measures.

Yes I said APR1 completion (nobody noticed that was April Fools day?) - but nothing is certain in life but death and taxes. Finally gave up and filed extension on the latter - and I would certainly have been the former had I not done the living/game room painting before the curtains my wife ordered from JCPenney's got here!

Calibration makes a tremendous difference on the Mitsu - as other reviews have noted. My review will tell you how much difference and where the difference is. Based on the IN72 I installed this weekend - I doubt that I will get much calibration work beyond basic settings for the Infocus...

Pre calibration reviews are relevant to those who still think calibration is a massive scam - post calibration reviews are relevant to those who know what a good picture actually looks like!

kevivoe

04-17-06, 01:44 PM

NO I am saying I have just not calibrated the IN76 yet....so don't read anything into anything until you have all the information. I don't measure screens for projector reviews - I measure a standard 2' image so that the reviews are comparable. You can then take the lumens and convert to desired ftL for your screen. I don't use the screen because I don't do subjective reviews - nothing but the objective perceptual measures.

Yes I said APR1 completion (nobody noticed that was April Fools day?) - but nothing is certain in life but death and taxes. Finally gave up and filed extension on the latter - and I would certainly have been the former had I not done the living/game room painting before the curtains my wife ordered from JCPenney's got here!

Calibration makes a tremendous difference on the Mitsu - as other reviews have noted. My review will tell you how much difference and where the difference is. Based on the IN72 I installed this weekend - I doubt that I will get much calibration work beyond basic settings for the Infocus...

Pre calibration reviews are relevant to those who still think calibration is a massive scam - post calibration reviews are relevant to those who know what a good picture actually looks like!

Do you need an IN76 to calibrate or are you waiting for someone to buy an ISF?

As mine only has 50 hours I thought I would wait until at least 100 hours.

k

krasmuzik

04-17-06, 02:14 PM

Im gonna be getting an Infocus IN76 soon. Im thinking of getting a DA-LITE 106" manual pulldown screen. The ceiling is dark gray...walls are covered with cloth colored navy blue. Whats the best type of screen for my setup? Ive asked a number of people and most of the recommendations is either High contrast matte white or hi power.

You do not need screen gain - High Power is too bright. HCMW is needed for ambient white walled rooms - yours is dark dedicated. I would go with Matte White and a ND2 filter. Or the darkest matte grey you can find - (like Carada Grey if they did pulldowns) - other greys have gain coating to help with the room (yes even dalites HCMW - it just used to be matte - now it is gain!) But HCMW is still a good idea if you ever watch with the sconces on.

When auditoning screen samples mount on black posterboard with sticky tape and view sequentially. Otherwise your eye is biased to the brighter sample - just like the brightest projector is better - something speaker sales do all the time. Only compare samples directly if you want to bracket the gain against the spec.

krasmuzik

04-17-06, 02:19 PM

Do you need an IN76 to calibrate or are you waiting for someone to buy an ISF?

As mine only has 50 hours I thought I would wait until at least 100 hours.

k

Based on the IN72 and SP7210 - I would suggest that mail-in calibration is a waste of time&money since it is so close. The SP7210 took 250hours before it even drifted 10% such that I could even calibrate it. So eventually lamp drifts and you need an annual tuneup (bimonthly for some people!) - but unless you had a local ISF that could do basic tuneup and greyscale and charge you the hour it takes - I would say don't bother with the tune after initial break-in. This advice only applies to Infocus - other boxes I would say tune it as soon as you break-in - and to avoid watching bad presets - leave it on in a dark room by itself to break-in the lamp!

Though the component video greyscale on the IN72 was a mess (they already released a firmware update for it). The digital input was fine. Hopefully the IN76 already has the component video fix of the IN72.

Since I think it is bad biz to carry too many Infocus demos - the IN76 demo is waiting until I sell the SP7210 demo. That should not imply anything about SP7210 performance- just good biz to have the new good thing rather than the old better thing But I will of course review it when I get it in.

krasmuzik

04-17-06, 02:31 PM

agro1

04-17-06, 04:46 PM

Kras - for my IN76, would you suggest HCMW or HCCV for a 119" screen ? My primary viewing distance will be 16', dark brown walls with a tan colored ceiling. I will have almost total light control.

bthorn9435

04-17-06, 05:01 PM

Could someone post impressions of their IN72, I am curious how this unit performs.

billymac

04-17-06, 05:07 PM

nobody's answered yet, do the gray/silver sides come off so you can turn them around and have the "infocus" logo right side up? it appears they do indeed come off, but i've been too chicken to pull hard enough to see what happens. :D

Typezer0

04-17-06, 05:14 PM

Has anyone had any experience with the IN74 yet? I'm considering purchasing one but I was wondering about the picture quality and brightness for an image about 120-126" diagonal. Can it handle it?

A local dealer said the projector calculator might be off a bit on the Infocus website.

Just wondering.

Thanks!

NoThru22

04-17-06, 05:14 PM

I am watching Domino on it now. I can't believe how great the color looks and I'm having NONE of the issues I had with the Toshiba over component (crushed blacks, occassionally it looked like 8 bit color, gradients were off, blocky, etc.)

krasmuzik

04-17-06, 05:26 PM

Kras - for my IN76, would you suggest HCMW or HCCV for a 119" screen ? My primary viewing distance will be 16', dark brown walls with a tan colored ceiling. I will have almost total light control.

I just installed HCMW for the 119" on the IN72 - the IN76 is 10% brighter - so I would still use it. The grey/gain does not hurt the darker room (since it is only 1.1 gain compared to 1.0) unless you are sensitive to surface sheen that most gain screens have. You are OK with plain old white in that case if it is a dedicated dark room. Dunno what "almost" total light control means....

BTW it just so happens that 119" HD format is 104"x58.5" - while stock screens are only made to the nominal inch (i.e. 104"x58"). Realize you have to make a custom order if you want that 1/2" for XBOX/HD - (movies have black bars anyways - no issue). I got bit by this and may have to eat a screen. Not a problem when doing the 92" I preferred on the SP4805 - as that was exactly 80"x45"!

For a dedicated room your goal is to average 12ftL - starting out at 16ftL gets you that and accounts for lamp life. The HCMW/HCCV 119" HD screen is 20.8ftL - which leaves you plenty of margin if your lamp fades early - but not so bright you need the ND2 filter. If you want to design for 24ftL to have some lamp margin - or ambient margin - then you would need a gain screen like HighPower/CinemaVision (effective 1.5/1.3 gain with ceiling mount) - but that is often too bright initially and needs a ND2 filter.

Keep in mind my ftL uses the 800 lumen spec of low power - there is a slight loss from Native temp to 6500K - not enough to worry about changing your screen!

Alimentall

04-17-06, 05:38 PM

This is why I like DaLite HCMW or HCCV - like a lighter/milder FireHawk (for less $$$).

I'll check into that.

The SilverStar does not reject ambient as well as the grey screens - it just overcomes the ambient because it is painfully bright!

I beg to differ. I've not seen any screen, short of the new "black" screens that reject light like this thing does. I find nothing painfully bright about it. Bright? Yes. But it's also just *extremely* efficient. My Gray Dove couldn't touch the SilverStar for use in ambient light, so I will probably get one for the house in the near future. It's also nice to get great blacks *and* great daylight scenes with one screen. The only downside is it has a bit of that "sparkly" quality that silver screens tend to have.

Alimentall

04-17-06, 05:40 PM

Has anyone had any experience with the IN74 yet? I'm considering purchasing one but I was wondering about the picture quality and brightness for an image about 120-126" diagonal. Can it handle it?

It can do it, no problem, short of a dark screen. I think the IN74 is the best bargain of the three and is much closer to the IN76 in performance, but the IN72 in price.

krasmuzik

04-17-06, 05:41 PM

I'll check into that.

I beg to differ. I've not seen any screen, short of the new "black" screens that reject light like this thing does. I find nothing painfully bright about it. Bright? Yes. But it's also just *extremely* efficient. My Gray Dove couldn't touch the SilverStar for use in ambient light, so I will probably get one for the house in the near future.

GreyDove might be a matte grey screen then...? The HCCV/HCMW certainly rejects ambient better than SilverStar (I have done the testing with full size screens) - you get brighter whites with SilverStar - but better blacks with HCCV - so get your DaliteRep to send you a sample book! And the FireHawk is even better at it. The reason the SilverStar is not as good is the viewing angle is wider than all of them - good for viewers offside - not so good if light is offside!

Having said that - for my "plasmer" simulator - I absolutely prefer the 60" SilverStar!

The brighter screen will fool the eye into thinking the blacks are blacker - but if you watch the Sci-Fi channel - you soon realize they are not!

Alimentall

04-17-06, 05:46 PM

kevivoe

04-17-06, 05:58 PM

For a dedicated room your goal is to average 12ftL - starting out at 16ftL gets you that and accounts for lamp life. The HCMW/HCCV 119" HD screen is 20.8ftL - which leaves you plenty of margin if your lamp fades early - but not so bright you need the ND2 filter. If you want to design for 24ftL to have some lamp margin - or ambient margin - then you would need a gain screen like HighPower/CinemaVision (effective 1.5/1.3 gain with ceiling mount) - but that is often too bright initially and needs a ND2 filter.

Keep in mind my ftL uses the 800 lumen spec of low power - there is a slight loss from Native temp to 6500K - not enough to worry about changing your screen!

I have a high power sample now and it is the best sample out of 8 I have tried with the IN76 with moderate light from the side and this includes the Firehawk.

I love the smoothness of the HP but I am not so sure I like the steep viewing cone. If one sits in the same spot you see a consistent image but if you standup or move to the sides it gets dim in a hurry. We will see with this evenings viewing.

12 ftL may work for dark theaters but if you want bright HDTV I think you need double that. A person really needs 2 screens ...

k

krasmuzik

04-17-06, 08:41 PM

There's a difference, though, between "rejecting" and "absorbing". Gray screens absorb more light and make sure your blacks are at least gray with the lights on, whereas a white screen means the blacks are basically a slightly darker white. The Silver Star rejects ambient light while providing a brighter image.

True of matte grey screens - but most of the grey screens are actually gain grey - so they reject ambient at sides - as well as absorb ambient. Even the High Contrast DaMat which is supposed to be a matte grey (0.8) - was reformulated to have a gain surface. As was Draper Hi-Def grey. Thank the FireHawk for everyone refomulating - in fact I don't know anyone who makes a pure matte grey screen without any gain surface anymore - except maybe the Carada Grey. The gain surface makes them work even better with side lighting than just a matte grey - which is why they all got reformulated.

krasmuzik

04-17-06, 08:47 PM

I have a high power sample now and it is the best sample out of 8 I have tried with the IN76 with moderate light from the side and this includes the Firehawk.

I love the smoothness of the HP but I am not so sure I like the steep viewing cone. If one sits in the same spot you see a consistent image but if you standup or move to the sides it gets dim in a hurry. We will see with this evenings viewing.

12 ftL may work for dark theaters but if you want bright HDTV I think you need double that. A person really needs 2 screens ...

k

Triple that if you want bright HDTV! Then another 1.5x-2x to add some margin for your lamp. That is when you need the Vutec SilverStar - as it keeps it's gain with ceiling mount whereas the HighPower does not - though if you are loosing gain stading up with HighPower - you must be doing table mount in which case the SilverStar would be the loser.

It is the very narrow angle of the HighPower that makes it work well with ambient side lights. Think of it as a tinted mirror - if it looks dim to you where the side light is - then the side light in turn cannot reflect much light back to where your seat is. But if you are doing table mount (or I should say close to head mount) then it works well for simulating a bright TV in a bright room with the Infocus.

billymac

04-17-06, 10:42 PM

kras, the vutec silverstar is only available as a fixed mount? right?

kev, i'm using mine with a da-lite high power. i think i'll go back to matte white when i have some extra cash. i don't like the drop-off in brightness at 4:30 and 7:30

Alimentall

04-17-06, 11:00 PM

Yeah, I called to get a quote on the drop down version only to find out that it had been discontinued or canceled.

krasmuzik

04-18-06, 12:07 AM

billymac

correct - it ships out on a freight pallet. The material itself is laminated to a foam core board which is glued to the frame. No assembly required - though disassembly of the pallete is required - you will have lots of kindling when you are done!

alimentall
I know a dealer that got screwed because they promised a drop-down SilverStar by Superbowl. I always had my doubts a drop-down was possible - because IF it was possible - they could have done a roll of material for the fixed frame and ship out a kit like every other fixed frame vendor avoiding the high freight of the pallette. Do you know if they ever made any at all?

smithfarmer

04-18-06, 12:13 AM

smithfarmer

04-18-06, 12:27 AM

I always had my doubts a drop-down was possible - because IF it was possible - they could have done a roll of material for the fixed frame and ship out a kit like every other fixed frame vendor avoiding the high freight of the pallette. Do you know if they ever made any at all?
They were produced for a short time and then pulled from the market due to problems the screen had from constantly being rolled up and down. I think it had something to do with delamination of the outer layer of plastic film they used.

Alimentall

04-18-06, 12:29 AM

Do you know if they ever made any at all?

I suspect they must have made some, but whether they ever shipped to anyone, I have no idea. I was skeptical myself, considering that it had only shipped on a rigid platform. It didn't seem like the kind of process that would hold up being rolled up and down.

kevivoe

04-18-06, 08:27 AM

I found a minor annoyance with the IN76 and my older Denon 3803 (component switcher). The on screen display of the Denon 3803 does not work in the IN76 but it does on the 1080i CRT I have. Not sure why but I can't do all of the audio and video assignments easily without the Denon displaying it's menus on the projection device.

Next minor thing. If you have HDMI and a component source, in my case an HD Sat. box using HDMI and a DVD player using component, and want to leave the Sat. box ON while switching to the DVD, the HDMI seems to override the component. THe IN76 has this "auto" mode for sources and must always switch to the better source if it is available. I had to uncheck the "auto" box in source select.

I have viewed silver screens before and having the HUGE gain can lead to eye strain. I also note a slight blue push with silver screens so I do not favor them. The high power is perfectly smooth enough for resolution (I can see why a majority of Ruby owners favor this screen) but using a projector with built-in offset makes the ceiling mount impractical. I am looking for a screen as smooth as the high power, angular reflective, white and in the 1.3-1.5 gain area.

Did anyone apply enough pressure to pop their side panels off and invert them? I guess I should download a manual to see if this is possible.

k

penn7

04-18-06, 09:15 AM

Kevivoe:

My receiver would not output the OSD over component, only composite or S-video. Since my projector is only 2 ft above my receiver, I just ran a short composite video cable just for menu changes....

krasmuzik

04-18-06, 01:50 PM

I have viewed silver screens before and having the HUGE gain can lead to eye strain. I also note a slight blue push with silver screens so I do not favor them. The high power is perfectly smooth enough for resolution (I can see why a majority of Ruby owners favor this screen) but using a projector with built-in offset makes the ceiling mount impractical. I am looking for a screen as smooth as the high power, angular reflective, white and in the 1.3-1.5 gain area.

k

That is about what the gain of the HighPower is with the ceiling mounts...HighPower is so smooth because it has the micro glass beads (which is what makes it retro reflective) - any other gain screens have the textured surface which diffuses the picture. If you are already gain loss with ceiling mounts - then the further loss to the side seats is not that bad. Locally DaGamePimp is using one with his Mitsu - maybe you can ask him to take some side shots for you. (Nobody commented in the side seats at our recent AVS meet)

Keep in mind that with fixed offsets - several inches variation on screen is just the slightest offset from level - with maybe a pixel on the sides that need masked off (which you probably do anyways with a drop screen that is not perfectly flat). I just recently did 3" higher than spec and customer could not see the difference in masking from his seat - and even if they did see the masked edges it far outweighs a too large of screen draping on the floor!

krasmuzik

04-18-06, 02:01 PM

If anyone would like to get an idea of how the SilverStar performs under ambient lighting, I took some recent shots and they can be found here :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7433773&&#post7433773

Nice pics had not seen your room before! For bright video like sports - I think SilverStar is the way to go - had you taken any StarWars space shots you would have not liked the picture though - that is much more black washout than the gain/greys get you.

But the solution is simple - you got your SilverStar for the sports daytime side lights on - and you throw on a ND3 filter when you want to watch some SciFi at night. It's what I do with mine!

It all depends on how much ambient light you have - a gain/grey may simply not be bright enough to compete if you have a dimmer projector (which is not an issue with Infocus).

One customer has the same size SilverStar in the family room - and we compared against Draper M2500. Gain dead on was essentially the same - but the Vutec dimmed off to the side couch much worse - the tradeoff for improved rejection of the kitchen lighting for better blacks. He liked the SilverStar though - because it's wide viewing angle makes it look like a Plasma - and he just needs to turn off the kitchen lights!

HiHoStevo

04-18-06, 02:19 PM

One customer has the same size SilverStar in the family room - and we compared against Draper M2500. Gain dead on was essentially the same - but the Vutec dimmed off to the side couch much worse - the tradeoff for improved rejection of the kitchen lighting for better blacks. He liked the SilverStar though - because it's wide viewing angle makes it look like a Plasma - and he just needs to turn off the kitchen lights!

Kevin...... little confused here... which dropped off more to the side the SilverStar or the Draper 2500?

When I tested the 2500 material (along with a bunch of others) with my BenQ 8700+ I thought the 2500 had some color shift "issues" (especially moving side to side in the room) compared to the other samples we had... (Carada BW, Draper 1300, Vutec SS, Dalite MW, Dalite HCCV, Vutec BW). Knew I could not afford Stewart, so I did not have any of theirs...

yiorgo1313

04-18-06, 02:43 PM

Infocus has new firmware update for the Infocus 76

krasmuzik

04-18-06, 03:04 PM

Kevin...... little confused here... which dropped off more to the side the SilverStar or the Draper 2500?

When I tested the 2500 material (along with a bunch of others) with my BenQ 8700+ I thought the 2500 had some color shift "issues" (especially moving side to side in the room) compared to the other samples we had... (Carada BW, Draper 1300, Vutec SS, Dalite MW, Dalite HCCV, Vutec BW). Knew I could not afford Stewart, so I did not have any of theirs...

M2500 had the drop off well before SilverStar (and by definition the narrowest viewing angle is the best for side ambient rejection). Cannot remember my impression of any colorshift to sides - dimmer colors should not be confused with shifted colors. But I have not measured the samples so cannot say for sure.

I do know the original FireHawk colorshifts to the sides - dunno about the RS version.

HiHoStevo

04-18-06, 03:06 PM

Infocus has new firmware update for the Infocus 76

So what is in the updated firmware??????????

..........................

Thanks Kevin........ It was definitely a color shift not just brightness fall off.... I remember it quite distinctly as we were watching Monsters Inc. when my son pointed it out to me.

agro1

04-18-06, 03:37 PM

So what is in the updated firmware??????????

Taken from HERE (http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&soft=in76)

v2.3 14-April-2006 Improvements to video syncing table
HDMI video codes corrected (1-34)
Fixed interlaced computer sources image shift.
Fixed no image issue after 4 hour sleep mode was initialized.
Added M1 and HDMI in HDMI DDC option.
Fixed lockup issues when disabling all "source enables" except for one, then power cycling unit.
Corrected hue shift in the black levels for component video inputs.
Removed fan speed increase during power down.
Fixed vertical position jump, when aspect ratio is set to crop top and bottom of the image.

v2.1 N/A
Initial release

agro1

04-18-06, 03:46 PM

I just installed HCMW for the 119" on the IN72 - the IN76 is 10% brighter - so I would still use it. The grey/gain does not hurt the darker room (since it is only 1.1 gain compared to 1.0) unless you are sensitive to surface sheen that most gain screens have. You are OK with plain old white in that case if it is a dedicated dark room. Dunno what "almost" total light control means....

BTW it just so happens that 119" HD format is 104"x58.5" - while stock screens are only made to the nominal inch (i.e. 104"x58"). Realize you have to make a custom order if you want that 1/2" for XBOX/HD - (movies have black bars anyways - no issue). I got bit by this and may have to eat a screen. Not a problem when doing the 92" I preferred on the SP4805 - as that was exactly 80"x45"!

For a dedicated room your goal is to average 12ftL - starting out at 16ftL gets you that and accounts for lamp life. The HCMW/HCCV 119" HD screen is 20.8ftL - which leaves you plenty of margin if your lamp fades early - but not so bright you need the ND2 filter. If you want to design for 24ftL to have some lamp margin - or ambient margin - then you would need a gain screen like HighPower/CinemaVision (effective 1.5/1.3 gain with ceiling mount) - but that is often too bright initially and needs a ND2 filter.

Keep in mind my ftL uses the 800 lumen spec of low power - there is a slight loss from Native temp to 6500K - not enough to worry about changing your screen!

Kras - Thanks very much for the info, much appreciated. One final question regading the 119" screen. If I order it custom, 104 x 58.5, will the picture for HDTV and DVD's fit perfectly ?? I realize for most DVD's there will be black bars, but I just want to make sure those black bars actually fill the screen and don't leave any unused screen material.
Thanks again for all your help.

HiHoStevo

04-18-06, 04:18 PM

The Link indicates that this is service software for the IN72... not the IN76??

But when you get to the site it says firmware for In72/74/76...

and lists version 2.3 for the Play Big IN76....... a bit strange don't ya think??

Taken from HERE (http://www.infocus.com/service/IN72/software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&soft=in76)

v2.3 14-April-2006 Improvements to video syncing table
HDMI video codes corrected (1-34)
Fixed interlaced computer sources image shift.
Fixed no image issue after 4 hour sleep mode was initialized.
Added M1 and HDMI in HDMI DDC option.
Fixed lockup issues when disabling all "source enables" except for one, then power cycling unit.
Corrected hue shift in the black levels for component video inputs.
Removed fan speed increase during power down.
Fixed vertical position jump, when aspect ratio is set to crop top and bottom of the image.

v2.1 N/A
Initial release

billymac

04-18-06, 04:20 PM

anybody know if you can sync component (rgbhv) over the m1:vesa/usb adapter?

i guess i'll find out soon enough, but just curious if it's possible. i need to buy the cable for firmware updates anyway, but it would be cool if i could sync a component signal over it as well. i realize it doesn't have the rca adapters on it, but i'm switching component out of my STB to rgbhv and using a HD15 cable in my ceiling to carry it.

Alimentall

04-18-06, 04:26 PM

Here's an update - my IN76 is working just fine and not shutting down, so I guess I have to chalk that up to operator error.

I do have one legitimate complaint that can hopefully be fixed in firmware. There is no way to simply blow up an image, at least on HDMI. I have several shows that come in 4:3 with a 16:9 Letterbox (Dr Who and Stargate SG1 comes to mind). So, if I blow it up, it should fill the whole screen. But it will stretch it which is no good. Or it will expand up. But I can't just blow it up to fill the screen. That should be addressed somehow. Right now I've got both letterboxing and the "curtains" or whatever on the side.

agro1

04-18-06, 04:48 PM

The Link indicates that this is service software for the IN72... not the IN76??

But when you get to the site it says firmware for In72/74/76...

and lists version 2.3 for the Play Big IN76....... a bit strange don't ya think??

That page I linked is for the IN76 - Look at the highlighted area in BLUE towards the bottom...it's the header right above the firmware history that says,

"Play Big IN76 Firmware Revision History"

HiHoStevo

04-18-06, 04:59 PM

That page I linked is for the IN76 - Look at the highlighted area in BLUE towards the bottom...it's the header right above the firmware history that says,

"Play Big IN76 Firmware Revision History"

Yes, I saw that ... my comment was that the link itself describes it as going to the service area for the In72..., but when you get there it lists the firmware for the IN76... just thought it was a little weird..

script

04-18-06, 05:22 PM

Guys, quick question. Will this Draper mount work for the IN76?

http://i5.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/4f/88/bb_1_b.JPG

krasmuzik

04-18-06, 07:24 PM

Kras - Thanks very much for the info, much appreciated. One final question regading the 119" screen. If I order it custom, 104 x 58.5, will the picture for HDTV and DVD's fit perfectly ?? I realize for most DVD's there will be black bars, but I just want to make sure those black bars actually fill the screen and don't leave any unused screen material.
Thanks again for all your help.

DVD anamorphic widescreen aspect (1.85 or 2.35) may have black bars as it is a shorter format than HDTV (1.78). The extra is for the HDTV/XBOX widescreen and the occasional digital release (like Monsters Inc, etc.) that uses the full widescreen.

But the idea is if you setup using the projectors test pattern - it should fill the screen - just wanted to alert those whose screen manufacturers cut to the inch not to the fraction. I have had some customers order DVD widescreen rather than HD widescreen - so it depends what you prefer - blackbars for DVD or matting the HD on the frame.

As it turns out this customers DVD player was underscanning anyways - so I had to use the overscan zoom function to even fill the screen in the first place.

billymac

04-18-06, 08:12 PM

still waiting for someone to pull*cough*break*cough* their sides off to see if they can flip them around right side up for ceiling installs. ;)

script

04-18-06, 10:07 PM

Why do you want someone to risk breaking their projector when you have your own to do it with?

Not being a jerk, just trying to understand.

agro1

04-18-06, 10:36 PM

BMac - From the looks of the way the casing is put together...you have to take the whole thing apart to invert the sides...I agree though, it needs to be done for a ceiling install...
Have you at least tried taking it apart yet ?? My guess is it's probably not the best idea...

Kras - Thanks again for the info :)

billymac

04-19-06, 09:39 AM

Why do you want someone to risk breaking their projector when you have your own to do it with?

Not being a jerk, just trying to understand.

script, just goofing. really just wanting to know if it's possible and hoping someone in the know will chime in. i don't wish ill harm to anybody's inXX. ;) really

jkim5453

04-19-06, 12:35 PM

If they both go in through the same connector, then yes, you will need to save both as presets. If they are through different connectors then the settings will automatically be remembered for each connector.

Is it 3 presets per input or 3 global?

Also, a nice feature on the 4805 was that the component video input remembered the last setting for 480i separately from 480p/720p/1080i which was a very nice feature. IN76 doesn't seem to do this. Any chance we can get this feature for IN76 in a firmware upgrade?

TIA

Alimentall

04-19-06, 12:51 PM

Guys, quick question. Will this Draper mount work for the IN76?

http://i5.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/4f/88/bb_1_b.JPG

Probably. Though I still say the Vogel is the best one I've found so far.

krasmuzik

04-19-06, 01:07 PM

krasmuzik

04-19-06, 01:13 PM

Is it 3 presets per input or 3 global?

Also, a nice feature on the 4805 was that the component video input remembered the last setting for 480i separately from 480p/720p/1080i which was a very nice feature. IN76 doesn't seem to do this. Any chance we can get this feature for IN76 in a firmware upgrade?

TIA

This is a question that will confuse Infocus service - and I had a calibration redo because of it. (I have not tested the new projectors/firmware for calibration memory). They even put out a service bulletin because of me - but the grammar used in it made it even more confusing!

The ScreenPlay series was consistent - and the manual implied it was 3 presets per input. What it really means is that any input can be saved to any of the three presets - this is grammatically not the same thing - in fact that means it is three global inputs. If you apply the preset to the input it was not saved to - the settings from that saved input that can be used on the other input will be applied (and on the SP4805 you could even apply sharpness to the DVI input that way - even though it was not on the DVI inputs picture menu). So in effect the presets are global. If you use a component switcher with variant sources - you soon find that the presets are not enough. You are much better off using an external scaler with more calibration memories for each input.

ScreenPlay would remember the last 480i vs >480i adjustments per input though - which decreased the need for calibration presets. Nice catch if that is missing.

I wish they would support the ISFccc program - which requires minimum installer lockable day/night presets for each input/sync - a bunch more memories to play with!

Alimentall

04-19-06, 01:13 PM

Well, the Vogel puts you at just under 4.5" from the top of the projector to the ceiling and about 7.5" to the center of the lens. I suppose you could make it tighter than that, but I don't see a big issue there.

krasmuzik

04-19-06, 01:22 PM

still waiting for someone to pull*cough*break*cough* their sides off to see if they can flip them around right side up for ceiling installs. ;)

Come on punk - I dare ya! Are ya a yellow-belly chicken McFly?

(Oh and let me know if it works and publish snapshots so I can try it! :D )

krasmuzik

04-19-06, 01:25 PM

kevivoe

04-19-06, 01:31 PM

John

You gotta like how they market it as low profile because the pipe section is only 1"! I fell for that when I asked my distributor for a lower profile mount - said he had one that was 2" (top part of mount)- and I say great I am at 7" now (center of lens). Of course that was without any projector dimensions - it ended up being 6" (center of lens)! Not very flush at all! I used to get 5" (center of lens) with the custom flush plates - but sacrifice that for universal spyder legs. Chief is more flush - if I recall another half inch - but that was with custom plates last I used them. What are you getting with the Vogel?

I use a Chief Universal mount without a pipe (flush to ceiling) with my IN76 and I measure 5 1/8" from ceiling to center of lens. I also used 3 of the "spider legs" and was able to use 4 screws. 1 leg had a screw in the end plus a screw in the center of the leg to the IN76 for added stability.

I will take it down this evening and snap a photo. I had the mount shifted to center the lens with my screen surface also. The chief is pretty flexible.

k

Paul_Seng

04-19-06, 03:56 PM

Kras, does the 76 use the same mount as the 7200? And does the mount need to be shifted a few inches due to the position of the lens?

Aircooled

04-19-06, 04:06 PM

krasmuzik

04-19-06, 04:09 PM

Paul

I switched to spyder legged mounts some time ago from custom plates - customer upgraded and freaked at the price of a new custom plate - being same as the whole mount. So I live with the extra flexibility the legs give you on install that takes more time to line up in the interest of upgradeability - check the respective install spreadsheets - they should have the CAD drawing with the mount hole locations. The general locations seemed similar but I cannot say if they are the same - and the lamp door goes all the way across now anyways.

Don't forget you also have the table mount screw locations in the center - as well as the ceiling mount holes to work with. The Peerless universal mount I just tried I had to be offset from center of gravity just to keep the lamp door free and hit the rightmost hole with the leg which was too close to the mount circular base. I still prefer the PremierMounts overall for install flexibility - I only tried the Peerless to keep my distributor happy....

If you are currently using a Premier Mount - you can buy just the leg assembly to replace the custom plate - good idea if you are swapping demo projectors a lot.

EEBuckeye

04-19-06, 05:04 PM

I emailed Infocus about the projectors scaling capabiliity (1080i -> 540p -> 720p or if it scales 1080i -> 1080P -> 720p) and here is their reponse:

"Thank you for taking the time to contact InFocus Corporation. In response to your question regarding 1080i signals, what you are actually asking is if our Pixelworks scaler will properly "weave" 1080i signals, or if it will "bob" those signals to 540p (you only get half the vertical resolution of the original signal by bobbing 1080i) before conversion to the native resolution of the panels, which is an issue with many HDTV's internal scalers on the market.

Not only will the Pixelworks scaler in our new IN72, IN74 & IN76 properly deinterlace film-sourced content at all resolutions, it will also smartly deinterlace video based content to reduce jagged edges, in other words, we do not de-interlace (bob) to 540p then upscale. We weave 1080i then scale to 720p.

Please feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions or concerns.

Thank you,
xxxx xxxx
Customer Service "

I believe this was reported at some point, but it is great to get confirmation!
Way to go Infocus! :-) This helps a great deal with HD-DVD players, etc...

Paul_Seng

04-19-06, 05:36 PM

Thanks Kras

krasmuzik

04-19-06, 06:04 PM

krasmuzik

04-19-06, 06:08 PM

I'm planning on getting the the 76, but I've only got a 7'3" heigth in the basement HT room. However, it has a suspended ceiling. Would I create any issues if I mount inside the ceiling joists and cut out the ceiling tile so the projectors feet are flush with the bottom side of the ceiling? Thanks.

I think if the projector is in the cavity you well have cooling issues - but should be OK if it is below the ceiling line. Premier Mounts is flexible enough for wall (joist) or ceiling mount - but I presume your subfloor from above is wood and can screw any old mount in? Just make sure to get an adjustable enough mount (or block the base) to be sure the projector vents hang low enough.

If you solve your ventilation issues you can even mount the projector above ceiling with this - of course it cost more than your average mount! Though I suppose it does not really solve offset issues....

http://www.draperinc.com/images/2006Catalogs/LiftsSweets/Revelation.pdf

EEBuckeye

04-19-06, 07:14 PM

Does anyone else get the impression that Infocus customer service just quotes Bob William's posts to AVS ? :D

Oops - must have missed that post! :-) Either way, the person who responded was not named Bob. :-)

I just wish Infocus would have used Brilliant Color also...

krasmuzik

04-19-06, 09:23 PM

script, just goofing. really just wanting to know if it's possible and hoping someone in the know will chime in. i don't wish ill harm to anybody's inXX. ;) really

billymac - seriously though I checked with my sources as I have a sales kiosk that it would be nice if writing was upside right. But it is not a pop out panel and is integral to the construction of the projector. So if you want to risk your $3K a year from now when your warranty expires and tear down the projector - have at it - at your own risk of making a door stop. Maybe cine4home.com will sacrifice a projector to their review cause - and that will satisfy your curiosity. Generally as a rule I don't try to break customers projectors before they buy them - so I am as chicken as you are :D

billymac

04-19-06, 10:00 PM

billymac - seriously though I checked with my sources as I have a sales kiosk that it would be nice if writing was upside right. But it is not a pop out panel and is integral to the construction of the projector. So if you want to risk your $3K a year from now when your warranty expires and tear down the projector - have at it - at your own risk of making a door stop. Maybe cine4home.com will sacrifice a projector to their review cause - and that will satisfy your curiosity. Generally as a rule I don't try to break customers projectors before they buy them - so I am as chicken as you are :D

yeah, mine are ever-so slightly loose, and actually sometimes vibrate when i power off. no biggy though. it really makes me think they're just on their with a compression snap, but of course, i have no clue. :)

Heboil

04-19-06, 10:23 PM

Mitch P.

04-20-06, 01:55 AM

How are people finding the IN76 fan noise when ceiling mounted? I am looking at this projector, but I am sensitive to the "airplane in the ceiling" effect. The projector will be about 2' behind me and 3' above my head (drop ceiling tiles).

Thanks.

You're going to hear it. Will it be annoying? That's a subjective thing and only a case by case test will give you the answer. What you need to keep in mind is that the pj is trying to keep it's 250watt light-bulb and internals cool. The fan has to move air and you'll hear it if you want to. I look at it this way, it gives me an excuse to turn up the volume -excellent excuse to the wife :)

My projector is mounted up around 8' or so and I can hear it if I try. Trust me, you get used to it after you see the picture it throws. Of course, you can always go and spend another $1,000 for a quieter projector, but would you? I'd rather have a slightly noisy pj now, and then save the $1,000 for when the 1080p projectors debut in this price point. Good down-payment!

jkim5453

04-20-06, 02:15 AM

... So in effect the presets are global. If you use a component switcher with variant sources - you soon find that the presets are not enough. You are much better off using an external scaler with more calibration memories for each input.

ScreenPlay would remember the last 480i vs >480i adjustments per input though - which decreased the need for calibration presets. Nice catch if that is missing ...

Looks like "Presets Off" takes you to last remembered setting - maybe this is local per input (I'm just not having enough time to play with this thing! :D ). Along with "Default", IN76 looks like it effectively has 5 presets. If last remebered setting is per-port (I think I remember Bob Williams briefly mentioning that it is per-port,) it's like having 4 global presets + 1 local-per-port. I can be creative with that. :)

But I sure miss auto-switching to last 480i settings when switching between HD and SD channels. Now I have to manually switch the aspect-ratio between 16:9 and 4:3 when channel surfing. Also, meaning of "Native" is a bit different between IN76 and 4805, which I'll have to get used to. It's confusing with IN76 because it's under "Aspect Ratio" menu while meaning "native resolution" rather than "native aspect ratio" (I was a little thrown back when switching to 1080i source zoomed into center 1280x720 part.)

BTW: I just now had a chance to look at 480i output from my DVD player - I think that whole concern over Faroudja vs. PixelWorks was unfounded, but my eyes aren't as dicerning as many others in this forum.

Moosehead

04-20-06, 07:06 AM

awtryau89

04-20-06, 08:17 AM

bub

04-20-06, 08:29 AM

How are people finding the IN76 fan noise when ceiling mounted? I am looking at this projector, but I am sensitive to the "airplane in the ceiling" effect. The projector will be about 2' behind me and 3' above my head (drop ceiling tiles).

Thanks.

Heboil,
I'm not 100% sure how the IN72 relates to the IN76 as far as noise goes, but I'm betting they are very close.

If you have not heard about my situation, for reasons not important here, I ended up with three different IN72 units. I can say this about them, they are not quiet. You will not have to strain to hear them that's for sure.

I have hardwood floors and an 8 foot ceiling. My IN72 will not run the fan at low speed, none of them would, for more than a couple of seconds. They would always ramp up to high fan speed after cycling from high lamp mode to low lamp mode.

I KNOW there is a low fan speed because I can hear it every time in two instances, once turning the unit on and waiting for the initial high fan speed to quiet AND when cycling from high lamp mode to low. Both instances, the IN72 would run at low fan speed for about 5-10 seconds only. I can not tell any difference between the noise at high lamp mode and low lamp mode.

I can easily hear my IN72 from 2 rooms away. I would compare the noise coming out of the 3 IN72's sitting in my house with my 25cuft fridge.

Weird thing is if I sit any of the three units on my table upright with no signal input, they run at low fan speed and are very quiet. But, once mounted on my ceiling, there are a lot of positive adjectives I use to describe them, and only one negative, loud!

Good luck,
George -bub

I'm hoping that InFocus is able to correct this issue with a firmware upgrade or something. The picture is stunning!

Dogwood

04-20-06, 09:37 AM

Heboil,

Quiet is not a word I would use to describe my IN76. If you have heard a 4805, the IN76 is just a little bit quiter in low fan speed (maybe my 4805 was better than average?). But after some viewing time you get used to the noise and mentally tune it out. It is seldom that it catches my attention during a movie.

As George said it throws a terrific image and is a very worthwhile upgrade to the 4805. Over all I am very happy with my purchase.

Moosehead,

The IN 76 does a good job with SD, better than the 4805 in my opinion. I am feeding it cable from a set top box at 720p. Very watchable but pales compared to DVD or HD.

Dave

kevivoe

04-20-06, 11:34 AM

Heboil,
I have hardwood floors ...

This is most of your noise problem. Try acoustical treatments (rugs on floor) or panels on the wall.

I have plush carpet and I have not heard the IN76 at all over other ambient noise.

k

Jed M

04-20-06, 11:53 AM

I've pretty much decided on the IN76, but before I pull the trigger could somebody tell me how the IN76 does with SD Satellite TV (I have DirecTV).

I know it won't be dvd quality, but I want to make sure it's at least watchable since we'll still be watching alot of SD.

If anybody has seen them all, can you tell me how the IN76 compares to the HD72 and the Mits3000 in this regard?

Thanks,
Doug
SD on Directv is absolutely watchable IMO. I watch most of my SD shows on my IN76. Serious videophiles will tell you differently, but I find the IN76 more than acceptable for watching SD blown up to 100" with my projector. Sure, its not going to be razor sharp (but then again, when is SD ever razor sharp?), but it will still be a good enough picture to watch and enjoy.

dmcdayton

04-20-06, 12:35 PM

I've A/B SDTV versus full screen DVD version of several different movies on a 4805, can't see much difference as long as its "digital" SDTV. If its one of the analog channels (say SciFi Channel on TWC) its not nearly as good but still beats watching it on a 27" CRT.

This was common question on 4805, I haven't seen anything to suggest the new IN line doesn't improve or exceed the 4805.

I would be curious about A/B comparison between 4805/IN72 to see how much improvement the Pixelworks scaler brings to lowly 480i analog SDTV.

JeffKB

04-20-06, 12:35 PM

I can not tell any difference between the noise at high lamp mode and low lamp mode.

George - when I switch from low lamp to high lamp, it takes 30 seconds or so, but the fan does increase noticeably. Are you letting it run for a minute or two after switching to high lamp?

If you notice no increase after a minute or two in high power, than it seems to me you may have a heat issue in your room. If all 3 units have acted the same, that pretty much rules out a defective unit.

Moosehead

04-20-06, 01:21 PM

Thanks for your responses about SD. Sounds like watching SD on the IN76 won't be a problem. Just wanted to make sure since we'll be watching quite a bit of it I'm sure.

bub

04-20-06, 01:35 PM

This is most of your noise problem. Try acoustical treatments (rugs on floor) or panels on the wall.

I have plush carpet and I have not heard the IN76 at all over other ambient noise.

k

Kevivoe,
No disrespect intended but the fact that I have hardwood floors is NOT my noise problem, sorry.

Read my entire post and you will understand a little better. There is a quiet mode on the IN72's that I've heard. The problem is that none of them will run on quiet mode for more than a few seconds mounted on my ceiling being fed a signal. If I sit them on my kitchen table, also hardwood floor, they are quiet. On my table, standing right next to them, they are not easy to hear. Mounted on my ceiling from 2 rooms away, very easy to hear.

My sound problem is due to the fact that they will NOT run the fan at that lower speed while mounted to my ceiling. It has absolutely nothing to do with my floor. Because, even while mounted to my ceiling, after initial startup and initial high fan AND after cycling from high lamp mode to low lamp mode, my IN72 (and I've seen 3 of them, all behaving exactly the same way) WILL run the fan at the lower, and infinitely quieter, speed BUT only for a few seconds. Then, it will ramp up the fan speed to, what I believe, the same fan speed used for high lamp mode.

I appreciate your interest though. If you have any ideas, I am all ears.

George -bub

krasmuzik

04-20-06, 01:36 PM

If you think your install is sticking in HighPower - then I suggest you get on a ladder and see if you are sweating it out. The last install I was at they had a gas converted wood stove in the room that convects out the top. There was a reason the room had two ceiling fans - not for cooling but for distributing the heat. I was sweating as I was hanging the projector and I was not even working that hard. One of the ceiling fans was removed to power the projector - they other cannot be used as it waves the pulldown screen to&fro. Which means they need to find a new method of heating the room.

I recall the ScreenPlay firmware was changed so the power level was just where it starts then it ramps where it needs to be. Infocus would much rather you be annoyed by fan noise than to suffer early lamp death.

If you can make it thru a movie comfortably while sitting on the top of a ladder - then there is a firmware issue. But that would mean that everyone's projector would have to ramp the fan in ceiling mount - and that is not the case. So I suspect you would find it really is not that comfortable and your projector is doing what it needs to do to make it thru the movie. Do not rely on your thermostat to tell you how hot it is up there.

krasmuzik

04-20-06, 01:48 PM

Looks like "Presets Off" takes you to last remembered setting - maybe this is local per input (I'm just not having enough time to play with this thing! :D ). Along with "Default", IN76 looks like it effectively has 5 presets. If last remebered setting is per-port (I think I remember Bob Williams briefly mentioning that it is per-port,) it's like having 4 global presets + 1 local-per-port. I can be creative with that. :)

Indeed that is it - that was what was annoying about the ScreenPlay firmware/remote. Brightness/contrast was on the remote - and it never told you someone had adjusted your preset. (like the dog sitting on the couch enjoying their new chewtoy!). Use your manual cover as the pencil/paper backup of your settings.

Indeed seperate SD/HD settings are important for channel surfing - as having the settop box doing the scaling is usually not the best. So hopefully Bob catches this one for next firmware update!

kevivoe

04-20-06, 02:42 PM

Kevivoe,
No disrespect intended but the fact that I have hardwood floors is NOT my noise problem, sorry.

George -bub

O.K. I thought you might hear more with hard surface floors than a room with plush carpet.

It does read like you have a fan that runs fast. My IN76 never does unless I make it by going high lamp and I am ceiling mounted.

On the table if you flip your IN72 upside down I'll bet it runs slow mode. I think your ceiling might be hotter than you think. Is this the upper floor of your house? Can you feel the airflow through the IN72?

k

bub

04-20-06, 03:30 PM

O.K. I thought you might hear more with hard surface floors than a room with plush carpet.

It does read like you have a fan that runs fast. My IN76 never does unless I make it by going high lamp and I am ceiling mounted.

On the table if you flip your IN72 upside down I'll bet it runs slow mode. I think your ceiling might be hotter than you think. Is this the upper floor of your house? Can you feel the airflow through the IN72?

k

Thanks fellas, I do appreciate the help. I live in Arkansas and it hasn't been warm yet. The other night, my wife was on the couch under the covers and I checked the thermostat, 63 degrees. There is absolutely no heat on in our house. I'm sure it is warmer on the ceiling then 5 feet off the ground where our thermostat is but I would bet money it isn't that much, not without any heat source being on, certainly not enough to make the IN72 run in high fan mode ALL THE TIME.

Remember, I have 3 of them sitting here and they all do the same thing. There is a low fan speed but mine will not run at that speed unless on the kitchen table, doesn't matter if right side up or on its back. I CAN get it to run at low fan speed by cycling to high lamp and back to low lamp. It will then run at low fan speed for about 5 seconds. During that 5 seconds, the IN72 is blissfully quiet.

I can feel the air going through the IN72, intake on one side and hot exhaust on the other. I am on the ground floor of a one story home.

Say there is a 10% variance between the temperature at 5 feet and at 8 feet. Given the 63 degree reading, say 70 degrees at the projector. If it will not run at low fan speed at that temperature, what temperature WILL it run at low fan speed? What is low fan speed there for?

I'm just frustrated about the noise. This is my first projector and because of all the talk about how quiet the new INxx's were, I guess I was expecting them to be quiet. I am not kidding, mine sounds like my fridge. There is no way to NOT hear it when you are watching a movie. I can only turn my 650 watt sound system up so high.

Help!
George -bub

Bigoober

04-20-06, 05:04 PM

Above is mentioned that carpet on the floor and panels will quiet the fan noise...obvious.

Has anyone put attached any carpet tiles to the ceiling directly above the projector?

Would it make that much difference to mount a plank hanging below the projector, maybe via chain or wire, that is also attached to the ceiling?

The fan noise doesn't bother me unless my mind wanders from a slow part in the movie, but I was trying to figure out some ways to quiet it down even more. One of those things that if you let it bother you a little, it could drive you up the wall.

bub, you are right, it does sound like listening to the fridge moving air around its coils.

kevivoe

04-20-06, 05:34 PM

Ambient temp. in room is 67.9 deg. F
Ceiling temp. with IN76 OFF is 71.1 deg. F
Ceiling temp. with IN76 ON is 73.6 deg. F after 30 minutes

Here is a photo of my Chief mount using 4 screws.

Note I use 2 of the 3 screw holes for the swivel base and 2 of the outside screw holes for another mounting point.

Note the dust on my IN76 after 3 weeks! need to clean it and the lens soon.

k

billymac

04-20-06, 05:34 PM

Mupi

04-20-06, 05:50 PM

I saw this problem with X1, with 4805 and now again with the new series.
Why are people getting bashed up if they complain about a product.
Note that these products are made in some hut in some remote island
with absolutely no quality control. so if you are lucky you get a unit
assembled well with good quality parts. Other wise you get a piece of
junk. Just because one guy's unit is quiet it doesnt mean that the guy
who is complaining is nuts. For some $2500 it better be flaw less.
Image quality alone is not important. If I cant watch a quiet movie
without distraction what good is $2500 bucks plus all the gear.
I might as well use my 27'' WEGA.

So stop bashing guys who say that their unit not quiet.

bthorn9435

04-20-06, 06:00 PM

To all owners of the IN series projector!

Is there anything wrong with using the holes in the center of the projector for a mount in place of the outer holes. They all use the same size screw.

bub

04-20-06, 06:08 PM

my in76 isn't "whisper quiet", but it doesn't bother me at all. room acustics do play a huge part in it though, believe it or not. have you ever ripped the carpet out of a room down to the sub floor or hardwood. it's amazing the difference it creates. bub, i'm not discounting the fact you're unhappy, that's really too bad. maybe you should consider a different projector--if it's not too late. mine's a keeper. :)

bub, just curious and forgive me if i missed it above, but did you upate the firmware?

I have ordered the short cable that will allow me to update the firmware. Just waiting on shipping. InFocus was out of stock so bought one on ebay. I heard you don't need to hook up the VGA, so will use a USB extension cord and laptop to update the firmware once the cable gets here.

I've read the info from InFocus regarding the new firmware and I don't see any reference to fan speeds.

Thanks for the help fellas,
George -bub

I wish everybody would note that I DO hear a low fan speed, and if my projector would run at low fan speed, I would be ecstatic! The problem, as I see it, has absolutely nothing to do with the environment my projector is in. There IS a low fan speed, but my IN72 will not run at that speed for more than a couple of seconds. How that could possibly relate to my environment is beyond my ability to comprehend. It seems a lot of people want to comment on my perception of the noise which I don't think is the issue. If the IN72 will not run in low fan speed in an environment of 63 degrees, what is the low fan speeds purpose??? If it is going to run at high fan speed all the time, why even have a low fan speed at all? If the IN72 is going to heat up its insides in 5 seconds to such a degree that the high fan speed is needed to keep its guts cool, then it wouldn't matter what my environment is, even if it was 43 degrees. Maybe if it was 43 degrees, the IN72 would take 7 seconds to heat up enough to have to kick into high fan speed.

Others are reporting higher room temperatures than mine and also that their product runs in low fan speed.

kevivoe

04-20-06, 06:12 PM

To all owners of the IN series projector!

Is there anything wrong with using the holes in the center of the projector for a mount in place of the outer holes. They all use the same size screw.

See my picture a few posts up. I use 2 of those screw holes with no problem.

k

krasmuzik

04-20-06, 06:47 PM

I wish everybody would note that I DO hear a low fan speed, and if my projector would run at low fan speed, I would be ecstatic! The problem, as I see it, has absolutely nothing to do with the environment my projector is in.

Please do the ceiling temperature test. Also what elevation do you live? Where are the register vents in the room? The point we are trying to make is that nobody gets three lemons in a row - so we need to narrow down what is different about your install from those that report theirs does not go to high power with ceiling mount. Also post pictures of your install. We cannot help those not willing to help with troubleshooting. And obviously getting a fourth projector is not going to solve the problems.

There indeed can be a major difference between ceiling and sitting temperature - the last place I was at the floor is over the unheated garage - if the ceiling fans are not running the seat is too cold while the ceiling is too hot.

The only ones that deserve bashing here are those who complain about products they have only read about. Mupi you will never be happy with ANY projector - so please go hang out in the 27" TV forum. And study geography while you there - China is not an island.

krasmuzik

04-20-06, 06:48 PM

See my picture a few posts up. I use 2 of those screw holes with no problem.

k

Why mounting so far off center? What ceiling to lens distance are you getting with that mount?

bub

04-20-06, 06:53 PM

We cannot help those not willing to help with troubleshooting.

Love your bedside manner.

bthorn9435

04-20-06, 07:03 PM

Thanks kevivoe for the info regarding the mounting holes. :D

IN72 User Review

This projector is freaking awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) There I said it!!!!!
On what basis to I make this claim, I am coming from the X1 to the HD72, and now the IN72.

Noise

First thing I must say is the noise on this unit is not as loud what has been reported thus far. That is not to say the other guys are wrong, I am just making observations based on my experience so far. I mean its to the point of barely being audible. On high power mode it still isn't noticable, and with the speakers going its not audible at all.

Picture Quality

Picture quality is phenomenal to say the least. I personally think the black levels on this unit are better than what I experienced on the Optoma. Thats not to say the HD72 wasn't good. I am using a 77" screen and thought maybe the brightness of the HD72 was causing the weaker black levels, but once again I would be remiss if I didn't mention the IN72 is one hell of a bright projector. I would have to say its at least equal if not brighter than the HD72. Ok, before I continue I would like to say that anyone reading this review please take it with a grain of salt, I am in no way an experienced reviewer and any comments that are presented in this "review" are based on my experiences and eyeballs.

Resolution

Coming from 720P to 480P I excpected to be fully disappointed. I was upset with the quality issues I experienced with the Optoma so I decided to come back home to Infocus. My god why did I ever stray! The HD72 was a good projector and I was excited about viewing 720P for the first time everything was razor sharp and screendoor was no where to be found. So when my IN72 arrived I was not excpecting much needless to say. The first thing one my agenda was to focus on what kind of screendoor I was going to be dealing with. Once again I am amazed from where I sit which is about 9 feet back, I could see no screen door. I played the HD version of Vertical Limit to test the SDE. I walked up to the screen and was amazed out how good the pixel spacing and structure are on this unit. I was next curious about the sharpness of the picture. I must say with all honesty I am not sure if the picture is as sharp as the HD72 but its damned close!!! Reality tells me this should be far from the truth but I am stating that its not.

Projector Basics

I was leary about the visual aspects of the IN series when I saw the pics online but after seeing the pj mounted and in place I must say that its a very attractive unit. My god the thing is a beast physically. I couldn't believe how big it was in regards to width and length. Although the color of the HD72 was better suited for my ceiling the IN72 doesn't look bad at all mounted up their. At some point flipping the side panels would be nice but it really doesn't matter when the lights are off. The remote is great I love the backlit colors, and the flashlight feature. It is hard to read the writing even when backlit though. Coming from an X1 previously its real easy to navigate the menus when dark. The only thing that I wish this projector had is a lens cap.

In closing I must say that this projector is way more than I excpected and she will not leave this house anytime soon.

P.S. This is an inital impression and I will update it soon.

Things I disliked about the HD72

1-The offset mounting holes
2-Colorwheel whine
3-Blacklevels
4-Reset issue
5-To upgrade firmware it had to be sent to Optoma
6-IR sensitivity was horrible, had to point remote at projector instead of screen
Things I liked about the HD72

1-Brightness
2-Colors
3-It actually had a DVI instead of the M1
4-Sharpness
5-Brilliantcolor

presenter

04-20-06, 09:33 PM

Greetings,

Quick question regarding calibration results. In calibrating the 76 I received for review, I was surprised that the out of box color was well off the 6500K, in fact at most IRE's between 5900 and 6100. The actual color output would tend to confirm the measurements, and my meter is providing consistant results compared to a few months ago, so while it might be off a little, I don't think that's the problem.

The low color temp seems inconsistant with two other reviews I've read, which both indicated that their units were pretty darn close to a perfect 6500 out of the bo.

It was easy to correct the shift, but, for that, and a couple of other reasons, I suspect that it may be this unit or the lamp itself. The color measurements were done off of Avia Pro using only the HDMI input.

I also suspect the lamp or unit because it measured in low power mode just over 20% less than the Optoma HD72 in equivilent settings, and some of the feedback I'm reading (and hearing) is that the IN76 is comparable to the HD72 in brightness, and possibly a touch brighter. (at least in best modes.

The unit I received has the older firmware, but I wouldn't think, from the list of fixes, that it would relate, and the other reviewers units had to be at least as old as this one.

Thanks

presenter

04-20-06, 09:35 PM

Greetings,

Quick question regarding calibration results. In calibrating the IN76 I received for review, I was surprised that the out of box color was well off the 6500K, in fact at most IRE's between 5900 and 6100. Viewing the actual color output would tend to confirm the measurements, and my meter is providing consistant results compared to a few months ago, so while it might be off a little, I don't think that's the problem.

The low color temp seems inconsistant with two other reviews I've read, which both indicated that their units were pretty darn close to a perfect 6500 out of the bo.

It was easy to correct the shift, but, for that, and a couple of other reasons, I suspect that it may be this unit or the lamp itself. The color measurements were done off of Avia Pro using only the HDMI input.

I also suspect the lamp or unit because it measured in low power mode just over 20% less than the Optoma HD72 in equivilent settings, and some of the feedback I'm reading (and hearing) is that the IN76 is comparable to the HD72 in brightness, and possibly a touch brighter. (at least in best modes.

The unit I received has the older firmware, but I wouldn't think, from the list of fixes, that it would relate, and the other reviewers units had to be at least as old as this one.

Thanks

presenter

04-20-06, 10:28 PM

kevivoe

04-20-06, 10:32 PM

Why mounting so far off center? What ceiling to lens distance are you getting with that mount?

My outlets and data port are 3" left and right of exact screen center. Since the IN76 lens is not dead center in the PJ I had to shift the projector on the mount so that the 2"x6" under the ceiling sheetrock is directly above the lens center. When I finished the ceiling some time ago I assumed I would always have a projector with a center mounted lens .... I guess I was wrong. If you look close the IN76 lens is in the center of the mount give or take a bit.

5 1/8 " from ceiling to IN76 lens center.

k

JeffKB

04-20-06, 10:40 PM

I wish everybody would note that I DO hear a low fan speed, and if my projector would run at low fan speed, I would be ecstatic! The problem, as I see it, has absolutely nothing to do with the environment my projector is in. There IS a low fan speed, but my IN72 will not run at that speed for more than a couple of seconds. How that could possibly relate to my environment is beyond my ability to comprehend. It seems a lot of people want to comment on my perception of the noise which I don't think is the issue. If the IN72 will not run in low fan speed in an environment of 63 degrees, what is the low fan speeds purpose??? If it is going to run at high fan speed all the time, why even have a low fan speed at all? If the IN72 is going to heat up its insides in 5 seconds to such a degree that the high fan speed is needed to keep its guts cool, then it wouldn't matter what my environment is, even if it was 43 degrees. Maybe if it was 43 degrees, the IN72 would take 7 seconds to heat up enough to have to kick into high fan speed.

Others are reporting higher room temperatures than mine and also that their product runs in low fan speed.
bub - the first thing you need to do is clarify whether your fan is REALLY running at the highest speed (i.e. high lamp speed) when you're in low power mode. It's quite easy to determine - let your projector run at low lamp until it reaches the fan speed you believe to be high. At that point switch to high lamp mode and wait at least 3 minutes. At some point during that 3 minute interval the fan should increase.

If the fan DOES NOT increase, then you are truly running at the highest fan speed for low lamp and that's not normal - there's a problem somewhere.

If the fan DOES increase, then your unit is very likely acting like everyone else's. Please see my review (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7467920&&#post7467920) of the IN76 - I describe in detail what my fan does. Are you seeing the same behavior from yours? If so, then it is what it is. At that point your options would be to try a different mfg's projector, build a hush box, or accept the situation.

If you do opt to try another mfg's projector, keep in mind they all make noise to some degree. InFocus has long been criticized for making projectors that are somewhat louder than their competitors, but one thing they've never been accused of is having bulb life issues. It's not uncommon for owners to get the full rated lamp life out of their InFocus PJs. On the other hand, some "near silent" projectors like the Optoma H7x series have numerous bulb life complaints - and based on owner's observations of scorched and melted parts it seems very likely it's due to cooling inadequecies brought about by the desire to keep projector noise levels low.

Just as a sanity check I'd try to see another projector (any projector) somewhere. You could try another local AVS member or an HT dealer showroom if you have any in your area. That way at least you can get a point of reference since the IN72 is your first PJ.

Good luck and hope things work out. :)

krasmuzik

04-21-06, 12:15 AM

Greetings again,

Oops - after all that "setup" in my previous post, I never posed the question:

If anyone has calibrated their IN76, what type of color temp readings were you getting before calibrating? Thanks -a

IN72 I just did was near 5dE in the blue direction which is around 6900K CCT. I don't call that a significant error - the level of perceptibility is 1-4dE - my customer could not see any difference when I switched between presets - and there have been some other projectors that I could not even accomplish 5dE AFTER calibration. Unless it is over 10dE I can count on not getting any calibration dollars....

Reviewing SP4805 stock for my customers the push varied more - around 10dE - but the direction of greyscale push was not consistent to one color or another. Initial lamp brightness (600-850) and contrast (1600-2000) also varied. So I would expect the same here - maybe a little tighter on the IN72 - and hopefully tighter as you go up the line. Get your hands on a new SP7210 or SP7205 - 0dE since last summer - that will till you if your sensor is drifting - and they indeed do drift if there is any humidity - and generally in the red direction. I just recently verified my sensor against Infocus manufacturing sensors which are frequently calibrated against their lab sensors - and they both dithered in the tenthousandth place.

If you are using OpticOne/AVIAPRO contact ghbliss (Progressive Labs was the OEM) and he can check out your sensor - not sure if Ovation supports it still.

krasmuzik

04-21-06, 12:18 AM

My outlets and data port are 3" left and right of exact screen center. Since the IN76 lens is not dead center in the PJ I had to shift the projector on the mount so that the 2"x6" under the ceiling sheetrock is directly above the lens center. When I finished the ceiling some time ago I assumed I would always have a projector with a center mounted lens .... I guess I was wrong. If you look close the IN76 lens is in the center of the mount give or take a bit.

5 1/8 " from ceiling to IN76 lens center.

k

So far it is the most flush mount even with spyder legs - I remembered 4.5" with the custom plate. Good idea to use extra screw locations when you are off center - you can really torque those legs otherwise. Toggle bolts on drywall can also work well - unless you swing on the projector - or plan on having a flood - in which case your projector is likely to get screwed up anyways.

At least you realized the rule is center of lens not center of projector for screen alignment!