OFFICIAL IN72, IN74 & IN76 DISCUSSION THREADI guess as the OP in this thread I have some responsibility to present some links and current info right here in the first post.

As a start, here are more current reviews/links:InFocus Play Big IN76 Projector Review - Overview (http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/infocus/IN76/index.asp) (Ref: Dave Mack)
Cine4Home - Test: DLP Projector Infocus PlayBig IN76 (http://cine4home.com/reviews/projectors/InfocusIN76/IN76Review.htm) (Ref: Smyth22)

Will add more as it comes to me. PM me with any links you think would be appropriate.

The original first post:
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:cool:

InFocus to launch three new home projectors in 1Q 2006

Emily Chuang, DigiTimes.com (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20051222PR206.html), Taipei [Thursday 22 December 2005]

Front projector industry pioneer InFocus will release three front video projectors for the consumer segment from its Play Big projector series in the first quarter of 2006. Included will be enhanced and high definition models using the latest DLP technology.

The Play Big IN72 will target mainstream consumers. Prices at US$1,299, the projector will feature 480p enhanced definition. The Play Big IN74 is for custom dealers looking to magnify customers’ large-screen viewing experiences including gaming, entertaining and movie nights. The IN74 will provide native 16:9 [576p] resolution in the United States as well as in Wide PAL countries. The projector will be priced at US$1,699. For the higher-end of the market, the Big IN76 is priced at US$2,499 and provides native 720p high-definition resolution.

According to Pacific Media Associates, the worldwide market for front projectors is expected to steadily grow from US$6.5 billion in 2004 to US$9.0 billion in 2007, representing a compound annual growth rate of 11%.

In the third quarter of this year, InFocus had revenues of US$130.3 million and negative gross margins. Although InFocus’ shipments were up 6.6% on year through the first nine months of this year, its revenues were down 14.2%.

According to a filing with the SEC, the company is currently transitioning its OEM projector business to China-based South Mountain Technologies (SMT), a 50-50 owned joint venture between InFocus and TCL.

Approximately 70% of InFocus’ revenues currently come from the US market.

http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/20051222PR206_files/image002.jpg
InFocus Play Big projector

Sources: company

WHy is 16:9 crossed out on the 576P model? I am in the minority in that I like what 576 P offers so this PJ is very interesting to me. Is it not 16:9?

Greg

he's just saying the press release called it a "16:9" projector, but they should have notated it's resolution instead....all three are 16:9 PJ's

Hopefully we'll see these from other sources besides the ScreenPlay channels. The IN76 at $2500 MSRP should hopefully push all the other 1280x768 DLPs prices down.

If the IN76 is 1000L or more it may end up on my short list as I don't think I want to spring for the SX50 which is currently my front runner.

Of course, I should wait for news of that hinted at forum changing INFS offering later in '06.

If the 720 DLPs do manage to get sub-$2K this year (either INFS or others) I can't see the IN72 as having much legs. Especially at $1300 MSRP.

Nigel

Hopefully we'll see these from other sources besides the ScreenPlay channels. The IN76 at $2500 MSRP should hopefully push all the other 1280x768 DLPs prices down.

If the IN76 is 1000L or more it may end up on my short list as I don't think I want to spring for the SX50 which is currently my front runner.

Of course, I should wait for news of that hinted at forum changing INFS offering later in '06.

If the 720 DLPs do manage to get sub-$2K this year (either INFS or others) I can't see the IN72 as having much legs. Especially at $1300 MSRP.

Nigel

It seems as if Infocus has killed the "Screenplay" name. We can only hope they also say goodbye to the lame channel marketing strategy for the higher end models. I'd expect to see the IN72 at sub 1K upon release. If it's as far below 1K as many think it will be it will have plenty of legs. Despite what others may say, 480 is still a viable technology for an entry level product. The IN76 specs say: Video Optimized Lumens - 1000

HTR

cool!
But it would be a good idea to wait for some official
specs to be released instead of speculations and
growing the thread to some 50 pages before
anyone puts a first review.

it would really help people if they dont have to go thru
50 pages of speculations and ranting before they can
find out anything about the projector.

or if people want to speculate do others a favor by
starting a new thread once official specs are released
and owners of the units start writing reviews.

it might be owners pride to cross some 500 pages but
after you filter all the speculations and rantings like

"I got my PJ and I am throwing it on a purple wall and it is great"

or

"my wife called me that the PJ arrived and I cant wait to go home"

there may only be some 50 pages of useful stuff left and it makes
it so hard for someone who is seriously looking for technical info
if he or she has to go through the rest 450 pages of ranting.

So lets keep it short and to the point.

Anyone know if the IN76 has lens shift?

Did I miss something, or is the IN72 basically the 4805 in a cool new case? Guess we'll need to wait to see some specs. (Then I can start the months long process of convincing myself that my 4805 is a piece of crap that I need to get rid of so I can buy the next new thing to come along.)

is the IN72 basically the 4805 in a cool new case?Generally "yes" but with the following changes: Lower noise: <20dB
Greater contrast: >3000:1
Better lens system: 12-element
Brighter: 900 Lumens
Additional input: HDMI
Faster colour wheel: 5x
No audio input / speaker

More ..... ???

4805 wasn't already 5x?

Checking their website, I see they've removed all reference to "DarkChip2" on the 4805 pages. Guess that's in preparation for the "still only DarkChip2" new lineup coming, so people don't realize the new stuff is just a rebox of old tech. Then again, the 4805 is still competitive, and if all they felt they needed to do was fix it's biggest problem (noisy), then that's all good for new buyers. Won't make me upgrade, but that price point on the 1280x768 unit might (is it x720 or x768? If only x720, then that Mitsu is still looking better).

Generally "yes" but with the following changes: Lower noise: <20dB
Greater contrast: >3000:1
Better lens system: 12-element
Brighter: 900 Lumens
Additional input: HDMI
Faster colour wheel: 5x
No audio input / speaker

More ..... ???

What exactly is a 12-element lens system?

cool!
But it would be a good idea to wait for some official
specs to be released instead of speculations and
growing the thread to some 50 pages before
anyone puts a first review.

it would really help people if they dont have to go thru
50 pages of speculations and ranting before they can
find out anything about the projector.

or if people want to speculate do others a favor by
starting a new thread once official specs are released
and owners of the units start writing reviews.

it might be owners pride to cross some 500 pages but
after you filter all the speculations and rantings like

"I got my PJ and I am throwing it on a purple wall and it is great"

or

"my wife called me that the PJ arrived and I cant wait to go home"

there may only be some 50 pages of useful stuff left and it makes
it so hard for someone who is seriously looking for technical info
if he or she has to go through the rest 450 pages of ranting.

So lets keep it short and to the point.


Personally id rather have to filter thru some "I got my PJ and I am throwing it on a purple wall and it is great" posts then have to read complaint posts such as yours.

What exactly is a 12-element lens system?

Go to any website that discusses camera lenses and you'll find out.

Personally id rather have to filter thru some "I got my PJ and I am throwing it on a purple wall and it is great" posts then have to read complaint posts such as yours.

:D :D :D

4805 wasn't already 5x?

Checking their website, I see they've removed all reference to "DarkChip2" on the 4805 pages. Guess that's in preparation for the "still only DarkChip2" new lineup coming, so people don't realize the new stuff is just a rebox of old tech. Then again, the 4805 is still competitive, and if all they felt they needed to do was fix it's biggest problem (noisy), then that's all good for new buyers. Won't make me upgrade, but that price point on the 1280x768 unit might (is it x720 or x768? If only x720, then that Mitsu is still looking better).

I said awhile ago that all IF needs to do to make me upgrade is a 4805 with 720p, quiet fan, a few more lumens, pre-tuned to the D65 Hollywood standard, and a video dvi preset - for $2000.

Looks like it might happen. Just have to figure out how to convince the WAF. Hell, I kinda wish they'd kept the same case. I could have just swapped it out and the WAF would have never known.

Personally id rather have to filter thru some "I got my PJ and I am throwing it on a purple wall and it is great" posts then have to read complaint posts such as yours.

well suit yourself. add another 50 pages of speculation and ranting


I am out of here.

It seems as if Infocus has killed the "Screenplay" name. We can only hope they also say goodbye to the lame channel marketing strategy for the higher end models. I'd expect to see the IN72 at sub 1K upon release. If it's as far below 1K as many think it will be it will have plenty of legs.

I don't think you'll see that for at least a year. The dealer cost on the IN72 will be *over* $1000 (I don't know exactly, just going on previous models). We mainly just sell projectors so we can make a little money on the screen and installation. It's like selling a computer. You can take your family out to a nice dinner for a low end model and maybe away for a cheap weekend getaway if you sell a high-end one. It's like lunch money in the scheme of things. "Hey, Jay, I just sold an InFocus projector, wanna grab a beer? My treat!" :)

What exactly is a 12-element lens system?

"...but this one goes to twelve..."

DCDi?

This is a great price breakthrough point, however, I still think, the projector market won't really light up until most projectors are in the sub 1k catergory, which is why the 480p projector will shine.

Alot of the PJ marketing has to do with putting these devices in stores in proper environments, however, one can only wish.

A 12 piece lens element literally means that there are 12 separate optical discs arranged in one lens housing. Nope, its not overkill...it really improves image, contrast, color separation, etc. This lens "grouping" is probably most famous in the classic Leica lenses that employ 7 distinct optics in one small 50mm lens housing.

DCDi?

Would be amazed if it didn't. IF seems to pride themselves on offerring it.

one word: Wow!

DCDi?

In72, 74 - DNX
In76 - DCDI

Generally "yes" but with the following changes: Lower noise: <20dB
Greater contrast: >3000:1
Better lens system: 12-element
Brighter: 900 Lumens
Additional input: HDMI
Faster colour wheel: 5x
No audio input / speaker

More ..... ???

Where you have found this information? Noise: <20dB - it's impossible!

In72, 74 - DNX
In76 - DCDI

Where you have found this info?

This info from SP distributor

I tried a google search for "SP distributor" with no luck. Got a link?

I think he meant "from a ScreenPlay distributor."

What's DNX?

Eshkind - any info on the throw distance and offset?

Where you have found this information? Noise: <20dB - it's impossible!Our list of features is merely pooled info gathered from AVS posters. digital_dilemma posted the noise spec (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6637037&&#post6637037) some time ago.

Why do you say it's "impossible"??!!

I think he meant "from a ScreenPlay distributor."

What's DNX?

Pixelworks DNX, or Digital Natural Expression. The info I have says the 72, 74 and 76 will all use it. DNX seems to be the processor of choice for all the current plasmas and LCD displays. I don't know much more about it, I know that Epson, Optoma and SIM are all using Pixelworks processors. Faroudja is old by technology standards. It would be interesting to learn which one really performs better. I could not find any white papers or real details on the Pixelworks web site.

htr

I don't know much more about itPixelworks DNX ™ (Digital Natural Expression) technology enhances the quality of digital video images by advanced scaling, motion-adaptive deinterlacing, noise reduction, dynamic edge enhancement, and smoothing of moving lines to deliver a lifelike picture. These are achieved with advanced DCTI & DLTI processing:
DCTI (Digital Chroma Transient Improvement) - advanced digital image processing further improves horizontal quality of color signal. DLTI (Digital Luminance Transient Improvement) - advanced digital image processing further improves horizontal brightness of picture

Cool. I wonder how the DNX technology compares to faroudja. I believe Optoma also uses a pixelworks chip (but not sure if it's DNX). There's a flash animation about DNX on the pixelworks website.

http://www.pixelworks.com/

No new information (NO new information is available - unless you have an inside track to InFocus...), but nice pics:
CineNow - US (http://www.cinenow.com/us/article.php3/id,2005/)
In France (includes top view):
CineNow - FR (http://www.cinenow.com/fr/article.php3/id,2515/)

Enjoy!

oh goodie

can't wait for the throw calculator :D

Kras

Do you know if the new PJs will use DCDi or this DNX stuff?

No more M1 to deal with?

No more M1 to deal with?It's still there. There is just an additional HDMI port.

IIRC, it has an hdmi input along with an M1 input.

EDIT: What cavu stated :)

CES has announced that InFocus has won a CES 2006 Innovations Award (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=7649) with the Play Big IN72 "gaming television"!

"Gaming television"??!! "Play Big"??!! I'm not sure I like where this is going.

CES has announced that InFocus has won a CES 2006 Innovations Award (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=7649) with the Play Big IN72 "gaming television"!

"Gaming television"??!! "Play Big"??!! I'm not sure I like where this is going.

Why the IN72 anyway? For "gaming television" with the 360 and upcoming PS3 you'd want the IN76.

Nigel

Why the IN72 anyway? For "gaming television" with the 360 and upcoming PS3 you'd want the IN76.

Nigel

Outside of gaming TV, as long as NTSC is around, then will so 480p machines. And I can assure you that NTSC won't be going away for a long time. ;)

Why the IN72 anyway? For "gaming television" with the 360 and upcoming PS3 you'd want the IN76.

Nigel

Actually, if you go to the official CES site and not the link shown, it was the IN76 that won the award.

InFocus (http://www.infocus.com)
January 03, 2006 08:00 AM US Eastern Timezone

InFocus Sets the Ultimate Stage to Play Big; InFocus Play Big: Digital Projection Has Never Looked So Good

http://www.mobilewhack.com/images/infocus_playbig.jpg

InFocus brings home entertainment to a new level with the introduction of the Play Big series of digital home projectors. With curved lines, a high-gloss black finish and satin chrome accents, the projectors connect to home-electronic devices including: DVD players, satellite receivers, high-definition broadcast receivers, TVs, computers, and major video game consoles.
WILSONVILLE, Ore.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 3, 2006--Knowing the action is just minutes away, the crowd cheers in anticipation of the raw energy about to rush over them. Rock concert or football game, being there used to be the only way to experience the intensity and thrill of these moments. Not anymore. Now fans at home can share in the excitement, fill their field of vision with the action and surround themselves with the experience. InFocus(R) (Nasdaq:INFS), the industry pioneer and leader in the projection market, brings the world a new level of entertainment at home with the introduction of the InFocus Play Big series of digital home projectors.

InFocus introduces the Play Big entertainment portfolio, delivering outstanding performance with a look reminiscent of a sports car. Design meets digital projection with a stylish edge including curved lines with a high-gloss black finish and satin chrome accents to complement any decor whether the lights are on or off.

And the view is breathtaking. InFocus Play Big projectors are brighter than most plasma TVs and offer consumers the best value per diagonal inch for big screen viewing. InFocus Play Big produces a stunning image ranging from 60" to filling a wall with 144" diagonal. All this in a clean, sculptural package that can be proudly displayed in any home environment.

"InFocus' innovation is hard at work in the Play Big portfolio," said Scott Ballantyne, chief marketing officer, InFocus. "With the combination of style, a vivid picture and affordability, InFocus is creating a new category of digital projection that delivers a theater size experience in an affordable, easy to use and sleek package."

Big Picture Solutions

The new InFocus Play Big IN72, IN74EX and IN76 fill the wall, or a screen, with bright, vivid and crisp images, capturing every detail of a movie, sporting event, video game or other big picture viewing event. Whether it's the most hilarious line in a comedy, a suspenseful plot twist in a drama or the moment the underdog team makes an incredible comeback, InFocus Play Big projectors deliver an amazing big picture experience.

-- For consumers looking for their first home entertainment system, the InFocus Play Big IN72 is an affordable 480p resolution projector bringing the big picture experience to home entertainment and gaming.

-- The InFocus Play Big IN74EX features native 576p resolution, which provides a nice balance between DVD resolution and HDTV. The IN74EX is available exclusively through authorized custom home theater dealers.

-- The InFocus Play Big IN76 is a performance-rich 720p native HD front projector, bringing a superb big theater experience to the home of the video enthusiast.

The Play Big portfolio is easy to use, featuring auto-ceiling mount detection, integrated table-top pedestal, quiet operation and a patented low light pollution case. The perfect choice for the discerning home theater enthusiast, the Play Big projectors feature true 16:9 aspect ratio and video optimized light output, colors and contrast (model dependent) for excellent video quality and an image larger than traditional plasma, LCD or RPTV options.

InFocus Play Big projectors easily connect to nearly any home-electronic device including: DVD players, satellite receivers, high-definition broadcast receivers, TVs, computers, and major video game consoles. They include an integrated cable cover to hide unwanted wires when ceiling mounted and a unique, integrated swivel pedestal that simplifies tabletop set-up and is easily removed for ceiling mount applications.

InFocus Play Big includes the latest Texas Instruments(R) enhanced definition DLP(TM) (Digital Light Processing) chip, the benchmark for video projection. The video image is enhanced with Pixelworks(TM) DNX video processing for superb brightness, contrast and overall video quality. All models come calibrated to D65 color standards to ensure cinema-quality color reproduction. Additionally, InFocus Play Big projectors include the latest inputs such as HDMI (high definition multimedia interface), which provides the easiest and highest-quality video interface available from DVD players, HD receivers and new HD game consoles enabled with HDCP (high-bandwidth digital contents protection).

With the introduction of Play Big, consumers can select their stage of choice, sit back and let InFocus Play Big do the rest.

Availability:

The InFocus Play Big projectors will be available in Q1 2006. The InFocus Play Big IN72 will be available for $1,299, the IN74EX is priced at $1,999 and the IN76 is $2,999. For more information about InFocus Play Big and complementary products, please visit www.infocus.com.

About InFocus Corporation

InFocus(R) Corporation (Nasdaq:INFS) is the industry pioneer and worldwide leader in the projection market today. Nearly twenty years of experience and engineering breakthroughs are at work here, constantly improving what you see in the marketplace, and delivering immersive audio visual impact in home entertainment, business and education environments. Being the inventor and leader is simply a great bonus of making the presentation of ideas, information, and entertainment a vivid, unforgettable experience.

With over 1.5 million projectors sold, in a category that is expected to grow to $10 billion in revenue and more than 9 million units in 2007, we believe our product contributions set the standard for what a big picture experience should be like. For more information, visit us at www.infocus.com or call us toll-free at 800-294-6400 (U.S. and Canada).

InFocus, ASK, Proxima, ASK Proxima, LiteShow, ScreenPlay and LP are trademarks or registered trademarks of InFocus Corporation or its subsidiaries in the United States and other countries. Digital Light Processing and DLP are trademarks of Texas Instruments.

Contacts


InFocus Corporation
Pam Judge, 503-570-8337 (Public Relations)
pam.judge@infocus.com
Roger Rowe, 503-685-8609 (Investor Relations)
roger.rowe@infocus.com
or
Edelman
Julie Brown, 503-471-6805 (Public Relations)
julie.brown@edelman.com

"A 12 piece lens element literally means that there are 12 separate optical discs arranged in one lens housing. Nope, its not overkill...it really improves image, contrast, color separation, etc. This lens "grouping" is probably most famous in the classic Leica lenses that employ 7 distinct optics in one small 50mm lens housing."

Not to pick on this quote specificially (it was the last one mentioning the lens structure, that's all) -- in brief, lens construction consists of elements and groups. Elements are the actual lenses/pieces of glass/plastic/etc. within the lens unit. A group generally refers to the resulting optic when two or more elements are cemented together (although a single element can make up a single group). For example, most achromatic magnifiers are made up of a triplet -- three elements in one group.

Lens designers end up employing more elements because it's easier to manufacture spherically-ground lenses, which aren't necessarily color-corrected (e.g. different wavelengths of light will be refracted at different angles by any given spherically-ground lens). Ever pick up a magnifying glass, and see how the image's edges are somewhat smeary, and sometimes exhibit color fringing? Camera lenses and other optical devices don't generally use a single element, in order to control corners & color.

Upshot (to me, at least): twelve elements means ... it's twelve elements. Without an actual diagram, it's impossible to compare this lens design to classic camera/optic designs. In fact, you could even make the point that adding elements might contribute to flare and loss of contrast, but most modern optical coatings make that a moot point.


Cheers, Mike

That PR is so full of hot air it could float.

Interesting that the MSRP for the IN76 is now $2999 versus the rumored $2499. But at least it does NOT say that the IN76 is only available from authorized custom home theater dealers.

That PR is so full of hot air it could float.

For example...............

I have read where the original price of the IN76 was to be $2,999 but was then dropped to $2,499. Is it possible this is a typo from the original press release?
If it is coming in at $2,999, it will make a difference to people like myself who were hoping to find a street price less than $2,000. I may end up looking for the older 7200.

I have read where the original price of the IN76 was to be $2,999 but was then dropped to $2,499. Is it possible this is a typo from the original press release?There definitely seems to be some confusion on this point! from the UK's Hidden Wires (http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesnews2006/news20060104-05.html):

News

InFocus PLAY BIG: Coming to a Home Near You in 2006 (4/1/2006)

Impressive high definition images no longer come from a boring, gray box. The InFocus Play Big suite of home projectors make jaws drop and heads turn by transforming the average viewing experience into a massive event. Reminiscent of attending your first rock concert or scoring courtside seats, InFocus Play Big allows consumers to relive the excitement, emotion and expansiveness of every entertainment experience.

The latest Play Big projector series from InFocus includes enhanced and high definition models using the latest DLP(r) technology, designed to magnify every viewing experience Whether looking for a front row seat during Monday night football, or hosting an Oscar party, the InFocus Play Big projectors make watching the average TV screen a mundane, ordinary - if not disappointing, experience.

At a fraction of the cost of other big screen video technologies such as plasma or direct view LCD, the InFocus Play Big home projectors produce a stunning image projected onto a wall or theater screen, ranging from 60" (5 feet) to 140" (11 1/2 feet) in diagonal with an image brightness reaching beyond movie theater standards.

All this in a clean, sculptural package that can be proudly displayed in any home environment. The high-gloss black finish, satin chrome accents and curved lines make a style statement whether the lights are turned up or down.

From movie buffs who want to stay home and parents looking to give their video-gaming children the big screen experience, to sports fans wanting to feel the intensity of every punt, swing, and foul, the InFocus Play Big projectors bring precision and detail that is nearly impossible to duplicate with other viewing technologies.

Whether living in a funky, uptown loft or a McMansion with a dedicated home theater, the InFocus Play Big projectors can transform any night into an intense, full-bodied viewing experience.

* InFocus Play Big IN72 Bringing home theater to the everyday consumer. With the InFocus Play Big IN72, design meets digital projection in the form of an innovative, 480p enhanced definition front video projector that brings a new dimension to the home entertainment experience. Pricing $1,299.

* InFocus Play Big IN74 Developed to provide a flexible, easy to use home theater solution, the InFocus Play Big IN74 is for custom dealers looking to magnify customers' large-screen viewing experiences including gaming, entertaining and movie nights. The IN74 provides native 16:9 resolution in the United States as well as in Wide PAL countries making it attractive to a worldwide audience. Pricing $1,699.

* InFocus Play Big IN76 Moving the bar on home entertainment. The InFocus Play Big IN76 provides native 720p high definition for the dedicated purpose of entertaining friends and family. Built with the award-winning engineering of InFocus' five-year legacy in home theater projection, the new IN76 is part of the revolutionary new home design platform. Pricing $2,499.

The InFocus Play Big projectors will be available in Q1 2006.

www.infocushome.com

Any word on whether there will be any lens shift capability, or what the zoom range will be? I really hope I don't regret buying my Panny 900 at the end of November. I loved the InFocus 7205 picture, but the price was too high, the fan was too loud (I live at 7600', so need the high altitude setting), and the lack of lens shift and minimal zoom nixed it. The IN76 seems to have addressed the price and noise issues (if we're to believe the reports); if they nailed the trifecta with some useable lens shift/zoom, I'm going to be sad.

-Sean

Mountain Sean,

Wow, 7600'!

Quite intrigued, I clicked on your public profile, but there is nothing there...
Are you an astro-physicist?

Mike

i can't wait until they update their site and give us some throw math

i can't wait until they update their site and give us some throw math

Exactly!! A large offset like the one on the Mits3000 will be a deal killer. Hopefully they will think of us folks with 8' ceilings. I'm holding off my Panny900 purchase until after CES.

Mountain Sean,

Wow, 7600'!

Quite intrigued, I clicked on your public profile, but there is nothing there...
Are you an astro-physicist?

Mike

Ha, no, but funny you should ask - that's what my degree is in, though I'm afraid it's not my profession (datacenter manager). I just live in a small town outside of Colorado Springs that sits up in the hills a bit. I know of at least one projector owner (a BenQ 7700) who lives even farther up the mountain than I do - I'm guessing his house is at 8,500'. The high altitude issue is the main reason I didn't even demo the Optoma line - they don't recommend using their PJ's about about 6,000' regardless of fan settings. Probably one reason why they're so quiet though - they don't run the fan too fast it seems.

-Sean

I'm glad I waited but hot DAMN I'm sick of waiting. I want this to come out, now! Hopefully 1st quarter = Mid January...

I want this to come out, now!Well, we'll know in a couple days! All will be public as soon as CES opens on Thursday.

Sean,

I think you could use any projector if you build a hush-box using large low-rpm fans.
Just a thought.
My H31 is relatively quiet, but I wish it were quieter.
It also leaks light badly.

Unfortunately, I am too busy/too lazy to build a hush-box...

Mike

There definitely seems to be some confusion on this point!

I wouldn't trust a British site on what US costs will be. Furthermore, the other press release was clearly written by InFocus and they would know. I was having a seriously hard time imagining how an IN76 was going to be only $2500 retail. I'm still having difficulty with only $3K.

Will the 720p model be using TI's "smooth scan" (i.e. cheaper, lesser) DLP chip with only half the vertical resolution with interlaced "wobulation" adding artifacting problems of its own (seen in many of the so-called 1080p RPTV's using TI's wobulating chips on top of the RBE and dithering issues) or will it still be the native 1280x720p chip whether it be the DC3 or DC2?

I'm hoping the 576p model is sold at regular dealers and this is also a typo. I'd hate to have to pay MSRP plus tax.

naahhhhhhhh, say it ain't so....

Actually, for how much it really costs to make one of these lumps of plastic, and the fact that 1080p in all chip flavors is fast moving up in the market they should have decent quality 720p DLP projectors at around $1,500 street by now. This artificial price gouging is getting old quickly.

Dan

This may be old news but there is at least one site already selling these projectors. I don't think I am supposed to link but Costcentral.com has them on their site now.
PS-I can only get them to show up by searching for Infocus IN76, then going into their site that way.

This may be old news but there is at least one site already selling these projectors. I don't think I am supposed to link but Costcentral.com has them on their site now.
PS-I can only get them to show up by searching for Infocus IN76, then going into their site that way.

Thanks

I must have missed it...........
Costcentral, where our costs are HIGH!!!

the 500U costs more than a 700 there.

Thanks, but no thx.

m

A site is selling projectors that the manufacturer has not released yet - and no dealers have SKU pricing on yet? It never occured to you that it is a bait and switch site to rope you into what they DO have to sell?

Cmon Kraz, I expect more from you!! :p ;)

"A site is selling projectors that the manufacturer has not released yet - and no dealers have SKU pricing on yet? It never occured to you that it is a bait and switch site to rope you into what they DO have to sell? "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strawman set up and knocked down.........

This may be old news but there is at least one site already selling these projectors. I don't think I am supposed to link but Costcentral.com has them on their site now.
PS-I can only get them to show up by searching for Infocus IN76, then going into their site that way.

It's more than likely a pipe dream, but at their advertised price, I'd buy it in a second. Can you say same price as the 900u. Smells shady though....

it's not a pipe dream

i've seen dealer cost, hopefully the pq won't disappoint and hopefully they're cranking these out. :)

it's not a pipe dream

i've seen dealer cost, hopefully the pq won't disappoint and hopefully they're cranking these out. :)

Here's hoping. I just can't wait to see some specs. Hopefully after this weekend. I would imagine these forums will be hopping the next 4 days....

Home Theatre :: Projectors
InFocus's big projector play
By David Carnoy, CNET.com (http://www.cnet.com.au/hometheatre/projectors/0,39026003,40059352,00.htm)
05 January 2006

At the CES 2006 show, InFocus is showing off a sleek, new line of affordable DLP projectors that it expects to launch early this year. The Play Big IN72, IN74, and IN76 will all share the same curvaceous, glossy black chassis but offer differing resolutions.

http://www.cnet.com.au/i/r/2005/CES%202006/Infocus_projectors.jpg

The entry-level IN72 will offer wide-screen DVD resolution (480p) and carry a street price of a little more than US$1,000, while the IN74 adds Wide PAL for countries that support it. The high-end IN76 delivers HD resolution (720p) and carries a street price of around US$2,000. All three models offer HDMI and DVI connectivity along with the standard component-video connection.

Aside from the eye-catching design, the real news here is that the prices of DLP front projectors are quickly falling in line with those of entry-level HD LCD projectors, which have traditionally been much less expensive but can't achieve the same black-level performance as DLP projectors. Consider this: Not too long ago, you couldn't get a 720p (HD) DLP projector for less than US$5,000.

For the complete round up of stories from CES 2006, click here (http://www.cnet.com.au/special/ces2006/).

http://www.projectorcentral.com/InFocus_Home-Play_Big_IN76.htm

With a price of $2,999. and only a 2,000. to 1 contrast ratio, I don't see much to get excited about.

IB

Two comments:

1.) Does an Australian website's opinion of what the US street prices will be really count for anything....

and

2.) Where is ProjectorCentral coming up with the DC2 info?
EDIT: Nevermind, it's in the product sheet link. Mild bummer....although on the plus side, the sheet states 3000:1 CR, not the 2000:1 listed at PJC. On the down side however, warranty looks like it's been dropped to 1 year.

If the IN76 streets less than 2K, it'll be a solid seller. Hell, I'm tempted...

only a 2,000. to 1 contrast ratioIt appears that Projector Central cannot transpose data off the brochure into their web-site very accurately!! The contrast ratio of the IN74EX & IN76 is 3000:1

Here are the InFocus product brochures:

IN72 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_3156.pdf)
IN74EX (http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_3155.pdf)
IN76 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_3157.pdf)

No mention of operation noise. If it was as low as 20dB they'd be waving it around.

Apart from looks, I don't think the IN76 has anything on the Mits HC3000.

The IN72 appears to be a slightly different platform than the IN74EX & IN76:
IN72 Throw: 1.76:1-2.12:1 Max Width: 11.5' 900L 2000:1CR USB Only 2D Comb Filter
IN74EX Throw: 1.52:1-1.92:1 Max Width: 12' 1000L 3000:1CR RS-232 & USB 2D Comb Filter
IN76 Throw: 1.52:1-1.92:1 Max Width: 12' 1000L 3000:1CR RS-232 & USB 3D Comb FilterBut they all have dual HDMI inputs or one HDMI and one DVI !! That'll save money on switchers and eliminate the need for digital switching AV receivers.

A site is selling projectors that the manufacturer has not released yet - and no dealers have SKU pricing on yet?

This is very common and from what i've noticed the price stays the same when they are released. Although these kind of sites usually aren't autherized dealers.

What I care most about at this point is the video processing chip. The Mits. HC3000 and soon to be Optoma H72 both advertise the 10-bit "Brilliant Color". Plus both have a reported 4000:1 CR...

I guess I am looking for reasons to consider Infocus 720p over those two (taking pricing out of the equation). I was excited about the 10-bit digital video processing by a DLP (finally). So, does the "Play Big" Infocus line have 10-bit processing or not?

A site is selling projectors that the manufacturer has not released yet - and no dealers have SKU pricing on yet? It never occured to you that it is a bait and switch site to rope you into what they DO have to sell?

At least one of those retailers that are pre-selling the projectors is reputable and I've purchased from them often in the past. They also happen to be an authorized Infocus dealer listed on the Infocus website. Maybe they've jumped the gun, but they're not exactly a shady operation.

Joseph

The IN72 appears to be a slightly different platform than the IN74EX & IN76:
IN72 Throw: 1.76:1-2.12:1 Max Width: 11.5' 900L 2000:1CR USB Only 2D Comb Filter
IN74EX Throw: 1.52:1-1.92:1 Max Width: 12' 1000L 3000:1CR RS-232 & USB 2D Comb Filter
IN76 Throw: 1.52:1-1.92:1 Max Width: 12' 1000L 3000:1CR RS-232 & USB 3D Comb FilterBut they all have dual HDMI inputs or one HDMI and one DVI !! That'll save money on switchers and eliminate the need for digital switching AV receivers.

I may have to upgrade to the 74EX... I like the idea of RS-232 control.

I may have to upgrade to the 74EX... I like the idea of RS-232 control.

I like the 74 as well. The product brochure says it works with any HD source. I assume I can watch ordinary cable tv and DVD's on the thing and it will work. If I can get this guy for $1,500 I'll jump on it.

Greg

here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6850104&&#post6850104) No mention of operation noise. If it was as low as 20dB they'd be waving it around.

Apart from looks, I don't think the IN76 has anything on the Mits HC3000.

Ease of mounting perhaps. And price. That $2500 MSRP seems more likely than the $3K one given the competition:

"720p Resolution: Optoma's new high-performance, high-definition HD72 projectors are being announced at CES with an estimated street price of under $2,000. The HD72 projector offers 5000:1 contrast ratio, 1300 lumens and incorporates BrilliantColor™ color processing technology with a 7-segment color wheel to provide great color saturation. Other customers who will be announcing and/or showing new 720p DLP projectors at CES include: InFocus, Sharp, Mitsubishi and SIM2."

"Portable DLP(TM) Front Projector (model XV-Z3000):
Sharp's next-generation portable DLP(TM) front projector, the SharpVision XV-Z3000, is a 720p high-definition home entertainment solution that instantly transforms any room into a high-tech home theater. This widescreen, portable projector can be carried throughout a home or to a friend's home to create an instant home theater for watching TV, viewing DVDs or playing computer games on a big screen. The XV-Z3000 features brightness (1200 ANSI Lumens) and contrast levels (6500:1) superior to those available in current front projectors, so consumers can enjoy excellent picture quality in almost any lighting conditions. Additionally, a dual-iris system adjusts image brightness to show full detail and enhances contrast ratio to compensate for varied lighting environments. The low fan noise of 30 dBA (in economy mode) ensures that the viewer won't miss a minute of the film's dialogue and special effects. Other features include I/P conversion, 3-2 pull down, Color Management System (C.M.S.), 3-step Bright Boost, a 12 volt trigger and an HDMI interface. The XV-Z3000 will be available in April for an MSRP of $3,499.

Portable DLP Front Projector (model DT-500):
The DT-500 high-definition DLP(TM) front projector is a stylish, feature-packed projector that is ideal for a dedicated home theater or any viewing room. This portable unit can be moved easily from room to room, for an instant home theater anywhere. Utilizing the DLP technology from Texas Instruments, and with a resolution of 1280 x 768, the DT-500 produces a 4000:1 contrast ratio and a brightness rating of 1000 ANSI lumens, delivering one of the best pictures available in consumer home theater today. Weighing just 8.6 pounds, consumers can carry the projector to any room of the house to watch TV, DVD movies or play computer games on a big screen and then store the entire system in a cabinet to save space. A powered optical iris system instantly changes brightness and contrast settings with the push of a button to allow the greatest flexibility for varying home theater environments. Home theater convenience is further enhanced with easy installation and whisper-quiet operation. A 6 Segment 5 X Speed color wheel achieves flicker-free, high-grade images and accurate color reproduction, resulting in an uninterrupted, detailed picture. Other features include I/P conversion, 3-2 pull down, Color Management System (C.M.S.), 3-step Bright Boost and an HDMI interface. The DT-500 will be available in July for an MSRP of $3,299. "

From your post here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6850104&&#post6850104)

I'm not sure what about an InFocus press release indicating a $3000 MSRP people don't understand.

I'm not sure what about an InFocus press release indicating a $3000 MSRP people don't understand.

The part about Optoma's pricing strategy and the rumor that INFS was dithering between $2999 and $2499. Perhaps they'll leave it $2999 because Sharp is at $3499 and $3,299 MSRP and just have a low MAP.

/shrug. An under $2K 720p DLP is good news. The IN76 will likely have to come closer to the $2K mark than the $3K mark.

Nigel

One thing though, all projectors aren't created equal, so better ones will need to fetch more money and secondly, not that anyone here cares, but if a dealer can't make more than $100 on a projector, they'll sell something else. There's a fine line between making a product that is competitive and making one that no dealer has any reason to represent. Fortunately, BY FAR, most people think a $3K for a projector that is equal to or better than last year's $8K machine is a GOOD thing and they don't whine about $500. Or think that IF is shooting itself in the foot.

Seriously, from the outside looking in, the projector forum is the whiniest bunch I think I've ever seen. I've never seen such negative spin put on every advancement in technology and price. It would be fascinating if it weren't so sad.

"Ferrari's got a 400HP, 2000lb sportscar coming out for $20K!"

"Wow, it really needs to be 500HP, the things too heavy and I wouldn't pay a dime over $16K for it. And I'll have to buy it on the internet to avoid taxes. I bet the engine's an unreliable POS too. I'm going to buy it, but what piece of crap."

"Ferrari's got a 400HP, 2000lb sportscar coming out for $20K!"



But does it suffer from RBE or VB? We need to know... :eek:

Back on topic for us whiners...does the Infocus IN76 have sealed optics (I douubt it...but maybe there's hope)? I still wonder if it has 10 bit video as well.

That being said, I will make my own personal whine:

It would be nice to get some longer throw projectors. It seems like everything is getting shorter and shorter throw.

One thing though, all projectors aren't created equal, so better ones will need to fetch more money and secondly, not that anyone here cares, but if a dealer can't make more than $100 on a projector, they'll sell something else. There's a fine line between making a product that is competitive and making one that no dealer has any reason to represent.


Given that the objective of the 1280x768 dual use DMD is to reduce cost and there are XGA projectors for $2K MSRP one might hope that they make a viable profit on a $2.5K MSRP projector.

Fortunately, BY FAR, most people think a $3K for a projector that is equal to or better than last year's $8K machine is a GOOD thing and they don't whine about $500. Or think that IF is shooting itself in the foot.


I think that if you look at projector purchases in this forum that "BY FAR" most of the purchases will be in the under $2500 mark. Thus, a projector outside of this sweet spot has an uphill battle simply because its priced out of the budget of many.

$500 represents a significat fraction of the cost. Yes, it certainly IS a GOOD thing but of less impact given that the HC3000 is already $2995 MSRP and uses the same DMD. Since the HC3000 sells for MSRP+rebate it lives outside that sweet spot where even the Z4 is a bit too much for some folks to justify.

Depending on the actual peak output of the IN76 vs the higher rated Sharps and Optoma it may end up with throw and offset being the determining factors.

Unless the street price is significantly above $2000.

Then WAF kicks in and its no sale regardless of performance difference. I can get the greenlight for Z4 pricing by burning prodigious amounts of brownie points. I prefer DLP and 1300L+. I'm not saving money...got plenty of money. I'm hoarding brownie points. And I've got other hobbies too.

I think there's a good number of buyers in the same situation. 2 years ago with no WAF, $500 was mostly a non-issue. Heck, $5000 was a non-issue if I really wanted something.

$500 suddenly is a big deal.

Nigel

I think that if you look at projector purchases in this forum that "BY FAR" most of the purchases will be in the under $2500 mark. Thus, a projector outside of this sweet spot has an uphill battle simply because its priced out of the budget of many.

Yes, but I mean *off* the forum in the real world.

$500 represents a significat fraction of the cost. Yes, it certainly IS a GOOD thing but of less impact given that the HC3000 is already $2995 MSRP and uses the same DMD. Since the HC3000 sells for MSRP+rebate it lives outside that sweet spot where even the Z4 is a bit too much for some folks to justify.

Well, sure, but the price of a 720 DLP just went from about $5000 retail to $3000 retail. $2000 drop, but everyone seems to be convinced that it needs to drop $500 before it even comes out? Not understanding it.

Anyway, I'm just saying that this place gets amazingly negative, as though somehow we're "owed" more or something. I just can't find anything negative to say about a $3000 720 DLP 3000:1 contrast projector with a 20dB noise level That exceeds 100% of my expectations. But I'm a cup half full guy.

does the "Play Big" Infocus line have 10-bit processing?YES

Yes, but I mean *off* the forum in the real world.


My suspicion is that we in the forum spend more on HT than folks off the forum as a general class. If we weren't price conscious we would be buying in the >3500 MSRP category.


Well, sure, but the price of a 720 DLP just went from about $5000 retail to $3000 retail. $2000 drop, but everyone seems to be convinced that it needs to drop $500 before it even comes out? Not understanding it.

Anyway, I'm just saying that this place gets amazingly negative, as though somehow we're "owed" more or something. I just can't find anything negative to say about a $3000 720 DLP 3000:1 contrast projector with a 20dB noise level That exceeds 100% of my expectations. But I'm a cup half full guy.

I don't think folks are being negative. It really is great news. The observation is that HC3000 is a great projector at a great price that's just a bit too expensive for many by about $500.

Saying another offering in the same price range leaves these consumers equally out of luck isn't being negative, its being wistful. For them the cup isn't half full or half empty. Its just empty. Or full of 480p.

Nigel

I don't think folks are being negative. It really is great news. The observation is that HC3000 is a great projector at a great price that's just a bit too expensive for many by about $500.

It's a great projector at a great price for those with 9' ceilings or above. Mits is missing out on a big part of the market by their restrictive offset. Hopefully IF will remedy this, and if it's <$2400 even better.

can someone help out a mathematically challenged person please?

is it possible to calculate throw now for the IN76 with those numbers above?

is it similar to the 4805?

The SP4805 has had 10b processing since day one thru the entire analog video chain. Just because a trademarked press release features something - does not always mean it is new....

Another case of Krasmuzik FUD? :)

Did you miss the 10-bit DIGITAL video processing that braindew mentioned?


A projector with Genesis/Faroudja FLI-2310 chip and HDMI input should be able to do 10-bit digital video processing just like DDP3020 ASIC chip and HDMI input in HC3000. I am guessing Pixelworks chip can do the same. I am not sure.

And I have to wait until reps get back to work after CES.

Lets see how did the SP7205 get cheaper. PixelWorks instead of Faroudja (it had both before). Keeps the DC2 instead of DC3 in SP7210. Lost one of the control jacks. One year warranty instead of two. But you get the UFO case and the HDMI port and 50% better contrast for 10% less lumens. Good tradeoff?

Well presumably the new DMD DC2 is cheaper than the older DMD DC2s...thats a couple bucks. Different color wheel that's better or worse depending on your view of the Brilliant Color white segment.

Yah, probably all in all a good tradeoff.

Nigel

It's a great projector at a great price for those with 9' ceilings or above. Mits is missing out on a big part of the market by their restrictive offset. Hopefully IF will remedy this, and if it's <$2400 even better.

The LG is an odd duck but has lens shift for around the same price. Too bad its not in the US yet. SOMEONE will make one with a usable offset for us folks with low ceiling.

Nigel

can someone help out a mathematically challenged person please?SP4805 Throw: 1.77:1-2.13:1 Max width: 9'
IN76 Throw: 1.52:1-1.92:1 Max Width: 12'

For a typical 92" screen (80" wide):

Short throw

SP4805 = 80 x 1.77 = 171.6" = 11.8'
IN76 = 80 x 1.52 = 121.6" = 10.1'

Long throw

SP4805 = 80 x 2.13 = 170.4" = 14.2'
IN76 = 80 x 1.92 = 153.6" = 12.8'

Anyway, I'm just saying that this place gets amazingly negative, as though somehow we're "owed" more or something. I just can't find anything negative to say about a $3000 720 DLP 3000:1 contrast projector

I guess it's hard to understand that $3000 is A LOT of money for some people.
This is the low end forum on the board. $3000 for 720p DLP isn't anything new. $2000 for a new model is.

SP4805 Throw: 1.77:1-2.13:1 Max width: 9'
IN76 Throw: 1.52:1-1.92:1 Max Width: 12'

For a typical 92" screen (80" wide):

Short throw

SP4805 = 80 x 1.77 = 171.6" = 11.8'
IN76 = 80 x 1.52 = 121.6" = 10.1'

Long throw

SP4805 = 80 x 2.13 = 170.4" = 14.2'
IN76 = 80 x 1.92 = 153.6" = 12.8'

thanks cavu!!!

so what I'm seeing there is that this has an even shorter throw than the 4805? and if my throw upstairs is 14' give or take, I'm going to have to go with a larger screen than 92"? would a 106" work?

so for 106" screen, it would be:

92 x 1.92 = 176.64 = 14.72'

right?!

dang, was hoping i wouldn't have to change screen size. maybe i'll put it downstairs. i don't think 106 will get past the WAF

I guess it's hard to understand that $3000 is A LOT of money for some people.
This is the low end forum on the board. $3000 for 720p DLP isn't anything new. $2000 for a new model is.

I hear that!!
Unfortunately $3K is WAY out of my budget, but 2K is fine....
I just don't want SDE at 100" size ( 11'), and I don't want any kind of Smoothscreen artificial blurring... I want clarity....
So I am EAGERLY awaiting news on these new units!!

Just talked to ProjectorPeople...they confirmed that the Optoma HD72 is $3999 MSRP...not the $2000 that was reported in the TI news release. So $3000 for HC3000 or IN76 seems more reasonable. Who are we kidding...these new generation price points are locked now (like new computers)...we will be riding $3000-$3500 for each new generation it seems. Sony bringing the HS-51A in at the HS-51 price ($3500) is another good example of that price point. They are going to let Panny, Sanyo, et.al. crowd fight it out for $2000 level which is paramount to grey market products.

Does anyone know when these are supposed to be available for purchase?

Just talked to ProjectorPeople...they confirmed that the Optoma HD72 is $3999 MSRP...not the $2000 that was reported in the TI news release. So $3000 for HC3000 or IN76 seems more reasonable. Who are we kidding...these new generation price points are locked now (like new computers)...we will be riding $3000-$3500 for each new generation it seems. Sony bringing the HS-51A in at the HS-51 price ($3500) is another good example of that price point. They are going to let Panny, Sanyo, et.al. crowd fight it out for $2000 level which is paramount to grey market products.

you're not going to be paying $3000 for the IN76. that's msrp and i can tell you, there's a huge gap.

Just talked to ProjectorPeople...they confirmed that the Optoma HD72 is $3999 MSRP...not the $2000 that was reported in the TI news release. So $3000 for HC3000 or IN76 seems more reasonable. Who are we kidding...these new generation price points are locked now (like new computers)...we will be riding $3000-$3500 for each new generation it seems. Sony bringing the HS-51A in at the HS-51 price ($3500) is another good example of that price point. They are going to let Panny, Sanyo, et.al. crowd fight it out for $2000 level which is paramount to grey market products.


TI said street for under $2K.

"estimated street price of under $2,000."

I would have expected the MSRP to be lower. Eh...if it gets to Z4 territory I'm happy. Should be interesting to see if TI's prediction is true.

Nigel

can anyone confirm if the IN76 will have brilliant color or not? There's no mention in the brochure.

Just my 2 cents:

1000 video calibrated lumens, 3000:1 calibrated contrast, pre-calibrated D65, HDMI and M1, less than 20db (I hope), and IF it is less then $3000 (say $2599)...........

It's a steal.

OK...I will take it for granted that krasmuzik is right about 10-bit color decoding in 4805 and new IN76(even though I have never seen that before now and have researched for 5 months on this topic...plus the fact that the 4805 has DVI input which is limited to 8 bit max). But, one last question if someone knows:

Will the IN76 have sealed optics? I know the HC3000 from Mits. does, and I am tired of dust blobs.

I think when someone leaked some info briefly on avs a few months ago that the new Infocus did have sealed optics.....but I could be wrong. :)

Someone threw out 20db a few pages ago, no doubt as wishful thinking. I'd expect these to be more in the 30db range and yes, sealed optics for sure. Still not a perfect projector as I'm guessing the offset will be a little large for my needs, no lens shift and I still know nothing about DNX. On the other hand, I'm thinking it will have the famous Infocus D6500 calibration out of the box and the lumens/contrast specs will be a whole lot closer to reality than most other brands.

htr

Hi All.

Newbie to PJs and obviously very excited to hear IN76 news from CES. Currently shopping for my first PJ and was considering 7205.

From IN76 specs how do you think will 7205 compare to IN76 in terms of pic quality ? If IN76 street price indeed goes to 2K, how will the price of 7205 be affected ?

Also, from your experience is it a good idea to be early adopter of a new PJ or should wait until they fix all their bugs, etc.

Thanks, Davie.

That information came from Bob Williams ScreenPlay Engineer himself - you don't have to believe this "biased" Infocus dealer spouting "FUD" if you don't want to. In fact I was telling people the opposite (based on knowledge of the SP7205 design being common) until he corrected me and said they improved the design in typical Infocus fashion - the last one they did is the best. And thus the SP4805 indeed has 10b video controls on even the DVI input (even if the datastream is 8b - the whole point of 10b controls is adjustment flexibility). If Bob Williams said it - it is fact as far as I am concerned - since his team designed the damn thing. I will trust his information over yours any day of the week.

Kras

When I read your earlier post, I searched and searched the "old" 4805 thread for Bob's post on 10 bit controls for you - I could not find it for the life of me. Must have been in another thread.

Do you think that these PJs will have a preset for video dvi? That would be nice - I'm sure you remember the fun of figuring it out. And when do dealers get to purchase their demo models? :D

The noise of infocus projectors is probably one of the biggest complaints about Infocus and I'm willing to bet Infocus will do something about it this time around.

I too remember Bob talking about the 10bit controls on the 4805.

Hi All.

Newbie to PJs and obviously very excited to hear IN76 news from CES. Currently shopping for my first PJ and was considering 7205.

From IN76 specs how do you think will 7205 compare to IN76 in terms of pic quality ? If IN76 street price indeed goes to 2K, how will the price of 7205 be affected ?

Also, from your experience is it a good idea to be early adopter of a new PJ or should wait until they fix all their bugs, etc.

Thanks, Davie.

If it's any indication, many 4805 users are still waiting for Infocus to fix a few 4805 bugs, but that's not stopping many satisfied 4805 owners (see the long threads on avs). If anything, you can try waiting a month after it's release, but I'm guessing if you're interested in the IN76 and it works for you, you'll probably jump soon after you begin reading initial impressions (that is, assumming they are good of course). I followed the initial 4805 impressions soon after its release until I could not take it anymore and jumped on it less than a month later. :)

That information came from Bob Williams ScreenPlay Engineer himselfI believe this is Bob's original post (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2135328#post2135328) ....I just wanted to let everyone know that the Bravo D1 looks very good through DVI into the ScreenPlay 7200 test unit I have in my lab.

It produces the best looking DVD playback I have seen to date.

The Bravo D1 seems to output CCIR 601 standard video which only contains brightness values from 16 to 240, and this is consistent with the mastering of the DVD so this is fine. However, to take advantage of the full contrast ratio of the projector both brightness and contrast need to be adjusted. You can do this by setting brightness to 44 and contrast to 55.

If you are comfortable with the advanced menus, then I suggest instead of using the brightness and contrast control that you use the color offsets and gains. The brightness and contrast controls for the DVI input operate in 8 bits, while the color controls operate in 10 bits. So for the ultimate performance, leave brightness and contrast at 50, 50, and set the color offsets to 39 and the color gains to 66. This should eliminate any contouring due to loss of bit depth.

__________________
Bob W.
ScreenPlay Engineer
www.infocushome.com

[Ed: Settings mentioned for SP7200 only]

That information came from Bob Williams ScreenPlay Engineer himself...

Well...why did't you say that to begin with (those who have followed Infocus stuff are all familiar with Bob Williams). It is customary to say a statement such as "per Bob Williams of Infocus" when you throw out information that is not advertised.

I will trust his information over yours any day of the week

Uh...what information did I offer, I was seeking information.

And the quote from Bob Williams is from a 7200 thread...I would not have found that since we were speaking of 4805. But, that still doesn't confirm the Play Big specs...but, like I stated earlier...I will assume it for now. Sealed Optics sounds like another one of those "word of mouth" things...maybe I need to call Infocus to confirm these specs.

While we're at it....
4805 and 10bit
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5820546#post5820546

Calm down guys. Talk about the new projector line.

Calm down guys. Talk about the new projector line.

MP - what are your thoughts for a sticky on the new Infocus line (and the Optoma H72 as well)? :)

Thanks,
Mike

If the IN76 street price at $2500.00(from authorized dealers of course) this is going to be a HOT deal.

I'm really interested to see how the IN76 turns out. When I upgraded from the X1 to the 4805 I saw a huge jump in PQ. I'm wondering if I'd see the same type of jump if I upgrade to the IN76? I'm not too worried about the resolution difference as that's an obvious jump, but all the other aspects of a picture; color fidelity, contrast, brightness, etc.

Hello McFly anybody home - what chip do you think the SP4805 has - but the FLI2310?! It has always had a 10b video adjustment. In fact this is one advantage of the SP4805 that these controls were 10b - in the SP7205 and SP7210 - the brightness/contrast digital controls were 8b.

That is not FUD that is fact! TI trademarking a term for 10b video support in their chipset long after most other chips had it is not news. Here is another factoid for you - many DVD players that claim 14b video DACS only have 8b digital video adjustments.


The only news here is IF the full HDMI spec is supported to include YCbCr digital support including 480i and 10b video. But the use of the HDMI logo does not guarantee that support. 10b is not necessary at all in a digital media stream since all sources are 8b - it just allows your player to adjust the video digitally - you cannot do that with current digital sources without mucking the video up digitally. But when marketing alllocates their 8b DVD video controls to generating screwed up outputs - you are kinda screwed.


Biff, you need to study up more on what DDP3020 can do and IF SP4805 could not do with 10-bit processing. :)

I just received this from my distributor:

"The IN72 will replace the SP4805, the IN76 will replace the SP5000, and the IN74EX will replace the SP5700. All three of the products will be shipping by the end of Q1 2006. "

He also said:

IN72 $xxxx dealer, $1299 MAP/MSRP

IN76 $xxxx dealer, $2999 MAP/MSRP

IN74 $xxxx dealer, $1999 MAP/MSRP

My guess is the $2999 will drop pretty quickly to around $2500.

And no... I won't tell you what was in the place of the xxxx! :)

I just received this from my distributor:

"... All three of the products will be shipping by the end of Q1 2006. "

Why do I have the feeling they won't be available until the last week of March....

All three of the products will be shipping by the end of Q1 2006.

:( I was hoping for a quick release on the IN72. I've been holding off buying a 4805 for several months now in order to buy the new model.

fine with me, gives me something to look forward to and a little extra time to come up with the scratch

i'm really crossing my fingers. a little disappointed about the throw on the 76, but it will still look nice in my basement ;)

From Today @ PC World (http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/001251.html):

Optoma & InFocus Intro Lower-Cost 720p Projectors

Posted by Ramon G. McLeod
Friday, January 06, 2006, 11:15 PM (PST)

Optoma and InFocus, companies that arguably have had the two biggest hits in the entry-level home theatre projector market over the last two years, are going at again, this time with lower-cost 720p, true HDTV resolution projectors.

InFocus's high-res candidate, the Play Big IN76, comes out in February, and should list for about $3,000, a very competitive price for a 720p resolution HT projector. It is supposed to be available in February.

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/IN76.jpg

The IN76 uses Pixelworks’ DNX video-processing technology and the 720p DarkChip2 DLP from Texas Instruments, boasts 1000 lumens brightness and a 3000:1 contrast ratio. The new projector has a six-segment color wheel and has a DVI/HDMI connection along with all the usual other video inputs.

Optoma's answer is the HD72 home theater projector, which will also ship in February, but is expected to cost under $2000. It too features the Texas Instruments DarkChip2 chipset, has a 7-segment color wheel, and HDMI connectivity, along with the usual video inputs.

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/HD72_left_1.jpg

It will be interesting to see how these two products do against each other in the market, given the incredible successes of their entry level products over the last year, especially with the HT projector market expected to boom this year.

There it is again "under $2000" for the Optoma...I think I am going insane.

I hope we get the real MSRP of the Optoma soon...at $2000 the game would be over for me. At $3999 (like Projector Central and Projector People told me word of mouth), the IN76 is the winner (assuming the street price will come down). But if the MSRP of the Optoma equals the IN76 I am back to technically picking each apart again.

Notes:
Optoma has been long the winner of quietest fan-noise...and Infocus the worst. We shall see how the new IN76 mathces up.

Optoma is utilizing the Brilliant Color chip that is revealing more artifacts and noise in the Mits. HC3000 than with it off (see Josh Z, et. al. comments in that Forum)...while the IN76 is using some new technology that hasn't been proven (DNX)

I have seen anywhere from 3000:1 CR to 5000:1 CR for the Optoma...will the real specs. stand up please.

Optoma now says "zero dead pixel policy"...what say you Infocus?

There it is again "under $2000" for the Optoma...I think I am going insane.

I hope we get the real MSRP of the Optoma soon...at $2000 the game would be over for me. At $3999 (like Projector Central and Projector People told me word of mouth), the IN76 is the winner (assuming the street price will come down). But if the MSRP of the Optoma equals the IN76 I am back to technically picking each apart again.


The following text is copied from Audioholics CES coverage that AVS links to on the home page and as you can see, it might be a reason for the confusion as to the price of the HD72. The top of the article states that it can be had for less than $2000 and at the botttom it says the MSRP is $3999.

With Optoma introducing a native 720p home theater projector with an estimated entry price point of less than $2,000, the Optoma HD72 opens the projector market to budget-conscious, home theater fans that want high-quality and high-performance products.

The HD72 features BrilliantColor color processing technology to deliver higher brightness and provide truer, more vibrant colors to the projected picture. And, with 10-bit color per channel color processing, a 7-segment color wheel and its 5000:1 contrast ratio, the Optoma HD72 DLP home theater projector delivers great color saturation and subtle color details for the best image quality.

With its new unique design, the HD72 also lowers the noise level usually associated with typical home theater projectors. The patent-pending wind tunnel cooling system is designed for near-silent operation with minimal light leakage.

Specifications:
Display Technology: Single 0.65 12-degree DarkChip2 DLP™ technology
Brightness (typical): 1300 lumens using 220W lamp
Resolution: WXGA (1280 x 768) with native support for 720p (1,280 x 720) and XGA (1024 x 768)
Contrast Ratio: 5,000:1 in ImageAI™ mode
Noise Level (typical): 27dB
Lamp Life (typical): 3,000 hours
Computer Compatibility: VGA (640 x 480) to amazing UXGA (1600 x 1200)
Video Compatibility: HDTV (720p, 1080i, 1080p), EDTV (480p), SDTV (480i), 576i/p
Aspect Ratio: 16:10 native, 4:3 compatible NTSC, PAL, SECAM
Throw Ratio: 1.58:1 to 1.9:1 (distance/width)
Horizontal Scan Rate: 15 to 100 kHz
Vertical Refresh Rate: 43 to 85Hz
I/O Connectors: HDMI, DVI-I with HDCP, RCA component video, composite video (RCA), S-Video, two IR receivers, +12V trigger relays, RS-232 communication, AC power unit


The Optoma HD72 home theater projector will be available in Q1 2006 for $3,999 MSRP through authorized Optoma dealers.

That seems like a HUGE gap between price points for the H72. I really hope it can be found for under 2K, because that would put it right in my budget. Having seen the H78 and H79 calibrated in different homes, I was going to wait until those dropped down in price...

where are the CES demo impressions? :confused:

That seems like a HUGE gap between price points for the H72. I really hope it can be found for under 2K, because that would put it right in my budget. Having seen the H78 and H79 calibrated in different homes, I was going to wait until those dropped down in price...

I've been waiting for a year to buy a PJ, my budget is about 2K.
Last year I ALMOST bought the 4805, but didn't because of the sde and noise ( only 11' away), then looked into the Z3 ( sde), then looked into the AE700 (no 1:1 on HTPC, and no smoothscreen for me TY).
Needless to day I am now looking AGAIN, the 900 has the same "Technology", the Z4 still has SDE at 1.5x according to numerous end users ( although the reviews state otherwise)..
I can't wait to hear more about the 76 and the 72, hopefully they are quiet and do NOT exhibit SDE type artifacts at 1.5x ( Looking for 100").......
I almost bought the Z4 until I heard about the sde, so now I'm waiting.
I've always liked DLP better myself anyways, so I'll continue to wait.

I really like Infocus and the IN76 price/features are sweet, but after looking at their new case design for a few weeks now it just looks ugly to me. Won't stop me from buying it, but it's a little to Vogue for me. Anybody else feel this way.

where are the CES demo impressions? :confused:Mysteriously, they can be found in threads named:An UnQualified look at CES... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=627014)andCES Day 1...Pictures! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=626864)

I really like Infocus and the IN76 price/features are sweet, but after looking at their new case design for a few weeks now it just looks ugly to me. Won't stop me from buying it, but it's a little to Vogue for me. Anybody else feel this way.
Do you also prefer the lines of a Isuzu Rodeo instead of a Ferrari Enzo ? :p

The deal killer for me on both this and the HC3000 is the short throw! For a 92" screen that puts the projector in front of the seating area. Yuk!! Also mean remounting the projector, which for me is a major, major hastle involving concrete anchors. Panny 900u is looking better and better.

I'm still not sure if I'm in the price range of these 720p DLPs, but I really want to upgrade to a HD picture. And it'll be awhile before we start to see 1080p in this forum.

This Infocus model has most of my interest as I've already owned two of their models and have been very happy with both of them.

But, since I've heard so many good things about the Optoma line, I may jump ship to give it a try.

I can't wait to start seeing some comparison threads of these new DLPs!

For a 92" screen that puts the projector in front of the seating area.And that is a problem, why?

Do you also prefer the lines of a Isuzu Rodeo instead of a Ferrari Enzo ? :p

I'm not a fan of the Captin Kirk driving a Volkswagon bug design either.......
BUT if the price and performance are right, I'm on it like stink on ....

The deal killer for me on both this and the HC3000 is the short throw! For a 92" screen that puts the projector in front of the seating area. Yuk!!
ageek - I agree that having the PJ mounted in front of you is a very unappealing prospect, but unless you plan on watching from 2x+ width back, you won't need to.

According to the PJC throw calculator, the lens of the Mits can be placed from 1.65 to 2x screen width from the screen. The IN76 is hair shorter throw (1.92 max). I can't imagine wanting to sit more than 2x width away with a 720p projector. :)

Since I have a long room, I wish the throw were a little longer in some of these newer PJs, but I don't see a real problem here. Infocus probably designed the throw to allow users with smaller rooms to maximize their image size, yet still get the PJ either directly above or behind them. I'm sure they designed the IN76's throw with the understanding most people will view 720p from 1.5 - 1.8 widths away (hence the 1.52 - 1.92 throw ratio). For the IN72, the throw is a little longer (2.12 width max). This makes perfect sense since they understand most will be viewing 480p from 2x width back.

crussader

Year after year Infocus does the same thing.



That would imply to me that the 4805 was released in the summer of 05, but I found some old threads showing people purchasing the unit as early as 12/04.

You're probably right and I won't be able to get an IN72 until June, but I don't see the consistency in the pattern. I'm not denying that the pattern exists, I'm just confused (not unusual btw).

...I still prefer the projection booth with 2.5x-3x throw though.
Me too Kras, but you know the drill there - all the guys with the small rooms will be saying IF blew it with the throw ratio, it makes no sense to have it that long, yadda yadda. I guess you just can't please everyone when it comes to throw ratio (or offset for that matter), although the LCD camp sure seems to come close with lens shift and larger throw ranges common. :)

No - ask acksnay - he was one of the first few at the very end of may 04.
Actually, the first 20 4805 units were shipped out from the you-know-who online vendor on June 11, 2004. I still have my shipment notification email from back then. :)

If I recall correctly the 4805 was promised for Q2 2004 delivery, so I wouldn't expect these new PJs to be released as late, since they're promised for Q1. At least I hope not, since I'm starting to get that itch we all know so well. ;)

I agree that having the PJ mounted in front of you is a very unappealing prospectWhat am I missing here? The thing is on the ceiling. What does it matter if it's two feet behind you or two feet in front of you? Aren't you looking at the screen? Why would you be looking at the ceiling?

What am I missing here? The thing is on the ceiling. What does it matter if it's two feet behind you or two feet in front of you? Aren't you looking at the screen? Why would you be looking at the ceiling?
The thing you are missing is called peripheral vision. :)

If the PJ is between you and the screen, it can be a source of distraction. Light spill from the case is more noticeable and often fan noise as well.

I guess you just can't please everyone when it comes to throw ratio (or offset for that matter), although the LCD camp sure seems to come close with lens shift and larger throw ranges common. :)

And unfortunately this is what really prevents me from even being able to consider DLP. I understand that lens shift is fundamentally different between DLP and LCD, but is zoom as well? I mean, it seems that the new LCD PJs have 2:1 zoom ratios, while the newest DLP still have only around 1.3:1. Why is this? It just seems that for flexibility of setup, DLP isn't even trying. Realizing they can't win that battle with LCD is one thing (because of lens shift), but to totally give up on minimizing the gap (by incorporating larger zoom ratios) is incomprehensible to me. Also, it seems to me that if the throw is long enough for shelf mounting, it also allows for a wider range of height placements, thus emulating vertical lens shift to some degree. At least this was the opinion I formed when I was desperately trying to get a 4805 to work in my family room. Perhaps I'm missing something.

I would be completely willing to try to work around the lack of lens shift with these new units if only the throw distances were longer. Unfortunately, due to WAF, I absolutely have to shelf mount on our back wall, and none of these DLP units will cut it. Oh well.

I guess you just can't please everyone when it comes to throw ratio (or offset for that matter),
Speaking of offset, has anyone heard what the IN76's will be ?

I also noticed while reading the Adobe PDF on the IN76, that along with the shorter throw and only a 1 year warranty, Infocus also chose not to include the USB/M1DA cable. For firmware upgrades, new owners will have to purchase it separately. It's sad to see the DCDi for 480i signals disappear as well.

I've been thinking about upgrading to a 7210 but will wait to see how the IN76 stacks up to it.

The thing you are missing is called peripheral vision.

The IN76 is also larger than the 4805 and thus will be even more noticable in your peripheral vision.

I also noticed while reading the Adobe PDF on the IN76, that along with the shorter throw and only a 1 year warranty, Infocus also chose not to include the USB/M1DA cable. For firmware upgrades, new owners will have to purchase it separately.

That cable is included with the 4805 but not the 72xx.

That cable is included with the 4805 but not the 72xx.
Surprised to hear that.

(...)I mean, it seems that the new LCD PJs have 2:1 zoom ratios, while the newest DLP still have only around 1.3:1. Why is this? It just seems that for flexibility of setup, DLP isn't even trying. Realizing they can't win that battle with LCD is one thing (because of lens shift), but to totally give up on minimizing the gap (by incorporating larger zoom ratios) is incomprehensible to me.(...)
The DLP "chips" aren't cheap so the manufacturers "cut corners" where they can. Short-zoom-ratio plus fixed-vertical-offset optics are much cheaper than "flexible" ones.

Mike

What's the street on Pixelworks versus the chips Infocus currently using in 4805? Is this new IF PJ going to use the vibrating DMD to get 720P? (Wobulation I think it was called).

I too got my 4805 from that vendor online unnamed as part of first shipment. Late June. I believe Kraz about IF release cycle, I delayed my purchase 6 months waiting on IF to ship 4805. Thankfully its still great so I can't take my time on upgrade.

I'm not aware of the use of wobulation on front projections, so I don't know why people keep bring it up. :) There are many 720p DLP under $3k now (and under 2k soon maybe) so there's no need to cut corners by using wobulation.

Infocus and Optoma use Pixelworks chip for awhile now (in some cases, Infocus uses faroudja for deinterlacing and pixelworks for scaling, but not in the 4805). I don't believe the older pixelworks chips compared well to the Faroudja, but their new DNX is new and could be as good as Faroudja, but I guess we'll find out for sure in a few months.

The Play Big IN72, IN74EX and IN76 are finally on the Infocus website (http://www.infocushome.com/amer/eng/microsite/index.htm)!

Are these capable of picture in a picture or split screen?

Hello,

I'm back from CES and am working hard to get these projectors into production as soon as possible. If you have any technical questions I will try to answer them. In the mean time here is the Excel-based projection calculator for the 3 new models.

If you have any technical questions I will try to answer them. Hey Bob!

Thanks for the calculator!

And congratulations on the new lineup. It looks very exciting!!

Most people here have three outstanding questions (the first is not technical):1. When!!??

2. What are the noise levels?

3. Please explain the advantages of Pixelworks vs Faroudja and "2D" vs "3D".

Thanks again!!

Are these capable of picture in a picture or split screen?Like any other projector, they are merely display devices. They will reproduce whatever is sent to them; if the signal generated by your receiver, STB, etc. has PIP, then that's what it will display.

Bob Williams' new screen calculator for the Play Big series reveals the following offsets. All are less than the SP4805 with the IN74EX and IN76 being about half!IN72 27.67%
IN74EX 14.72%
IN76 15.59%

Bob,

Why are the lens throws so short on the model 74 and 76? Some of us want to use 2.35:1 screens and the anamorphic lenses need as long a throw as possible so as not to have image cropping, pin and barrel distortions, and chromatic artifacts. A throw ratio of 1.50:1 is the bare minimum for the Prismasonic horizontal lenses, for instance. Having the lens inset doesn't help any either.

Will all three models have the proper 2.35:1 stretch mode with no image cropping needed for anamorphic lens usage on all video resolutions (from 480i to 1080p)?

Will your Pixelworks scaler properly "weave" 1080i signals, and not "bob" those signals to 540p (you only get half the vertical resolution of the original signal by bobbing 1080i) before conversion to the native resolution of the panels? That is an issue with many HDTV's internal scalers on the market.

Will your new projectors accept all forms of 1920x1080p signals from the new Blu-Ray and HD-DVD format players (those that properly output 1080p video, that is)?

Will the optic pathway, DLP chip and color wheel, and lens assembly, etc. all be sealed for no dust blob issues?

Thanks!

Dan

Bob Williams' new screen calculator for the Play Big series reveals the following offsets. All are less than the SP4805 with the IN74EX and IN76 being about half!IN72 27.67%
IN74EX 14.72%
IN76 15.59%

cavu

I was an English major - no math skills. So am I correct in stating that the IN76, when compared to the 4805 using same size screen (92" for example) will sit closer to the screen and the screen will be closer to the ceiling given the smaller offset. If so, then for me that is great. I can go to 106" and still keep my line of vision 1/3 up the screen.

am I correct in stating that the IN76, when compared to the 4805 using same size screen (92" for example) will sit closer to the screen and the screen will be closer to the ceiling given the smaller offset.Yes.

Hello,

I'm back from CES and am working hard to get these projectors into production as soon as possible. If you have any technical questions I will try to answer them. In the mean time here is the Excel-based projection calculator for the 3 new models.

Any reviews on tap that you know of for the 76?

the offset is actually great news for me, my setup is closer to the ceiling so right on.

now i just have to see if i can talk the wife into a 106" screen upstairs. LOL. otherwise, i'll have to put her downstairs on my 92, which i guess in the long run would be just fine. put less hours on her that way i suppose.

The 15% offset on the IN76 is very good news! It's also perfectly logical, considering most people tend to use larger screens with 720p PJs.

Why other manufacturers insist on implementing large offsets on higher resolution projectors just doesn't make any sense to me. The most puzzling example of this is the Optoma HD81. Why you would make a 1080p superbright projector (an absolute perfect fit for large screen applications common to the high end buyers likely to be your market), and then throw a 27% offset on the thing, is a complete mystery to me.

I had decided a while ago that I might just buy a new bulb for my 4805 in a few months and forego any upgrade until DC3 720p projectors hit the $2k mark. After all, DVDs comprise 90% of my viewing and I'm still extremely satisfied with the 4805's image. At this point however, I'm thinking "screw that plan"! All this talk has given me the upgrade itch and I'm thinking I'll pull the trigger around June.....if the prices pan out as predicted.

Jeff

Bob - thanks for dropping in!

Was anything done to minimize or eliminate color wheel contamination from the outgassing of the plastic lamp housing?

What performance improvements (if any) are you seeing in these PJs vs the older DC2 projectors?

The lumen spec states "1000 ANSI Max". (Heh, how'd you tweak another 250 lumens out of a bulb with the same wattage as the 4805's! :D) I assume that's high power mode. What's the lumen spec for low power? Is it 800?

Thx
Jeff

The lumen spec states "1000 ANSI Max". I assume that's high power mode. What's the lumen spec for low power? Is it 800? The low/high power lumen settings on the new projectors are:IN72 720/900 lumens
IN74EX 800/1000 lumens
IN76 800/1000 lumens

Do these have sealed optics?

Thanks Bob for providing the calculator.

Will the IN76 use the same mounting configuration/screw pattern that holds the 4805 to the mount or will us 4805 owners have to get a new mount ?

I'd like to be able to use my present mounting location and from the throw distance #'s that have been released, I figure that I'll be okay, but I know that the IN76 is a bit larger than the 4805. I would prefer to use no keystone correction, but I imagine that the lens will not be in the same location once the IN76 is mounted.

Is it possible to shed some light on the differences between the 4805 and the IN76 with regards to lens placement. In other words, using my present mounting location, how far off of the centerline of the 4805's lens would the IN76's lens be ?

In simpler terms, basically what I'm asking is "will upgrading to the IN76 necessitate a change in mounting location and require a new mount" ?

Thanks again Bob for any further help you can provide us.


Unfortunately for me, I don't have Excel, just the Excel viewer and it will not allow me to change any info to see how the IN76 will work in my situation.

Presently I have the 4805 around 18'4" from the lens to the screen. My screen is 105" wide/120.5" diagonal. Gain is estimated to be 3 for the SilverStar.

Would somebody be kind enough to punch in my screen info and post the results ?

Thanks

will upgrading to the IN76 necessitate a change in mounting location and require a new mount?Yes and yes.

The INxx lens offset is only 51.5mm left of centre versus 65mm on the SP4805. The hole mounting pattern of the INxx series is different than the SP4805.

For a 105" wide screen, the short throw mounting distance is 13.39' and the long throw is 16.98'.

BTW, your brightness would be 55.7fL in low power and 69.7fL in high power! Yikes! Sunglasses required.

Yes and yes.

The INxx lens offset is only 51.5mm left of centre versus 65mm on the SP4805. The hole mounting pattern of the INxx series is different than the SP4805.

For a 105" wide screen, the short throw mounting distance is 13.39' and the long throw is 16.98'.

BTW, your brightness would be 55.7fL in low power and 69.7fL in high power! Yikes! Sunglasses required.
Thank you cavu for taking the time to input the #'s and post the results for me. It's very much appreciated. Looks like I'll need an ND4 for the 76. :cool:

Voice added to the chorus asking about squeeze/stretch for CIH setup with horizontal expansion lens.

Am I calculating correctly that for the IN76 the throw ratio is only about 1.5 without zoom, and 2.0 with full zoom?

Am I calculating correctly that for the IN76 the throw ratio is only about 1.5 without zoom, and 2.0 with full zoom?The throw ratios (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6850012&&#post6850012) were posted a week ago in this same thread but the numbers Bob used in the calculator for the IN74EX and IN76 are slightly different than those published numbers.

cavu

I was an English major - no math skills. So am I correct in stating that the IN76, when compared to the 4805 using same size screen (92" for example) will sit closer to the screen and the screen will be closer to the ceiling given the smaller offset. If so, then for me that is great. I can go to 106" and still keep my line of vision 1/3 up the screen.

i got to thinking about this, and cavu's reply "yes"

closer to the ceiling with it being ceiling mounted right?

not right side up table mounted, that would be a larger offset, right?

1. When!!??

All I can say is that we'll be done when we're done, and that the information given out at CES for availability is not unreasonable in my opinion.


2. What are the noise levels?

We have chosen once again not to publish our actual noise testing results because the ISO standard test that we use is not the same as other manufacturers methodology so from a marketing standpoint we may look worse than we really are. However, as it stands right now the IN72, IN74, and IN76 comprise the 2nd quietest product line we have ever designed, and far quieter than the SP4805. The quietest of our products is still the SP777, but that's not a product aimed at the people visiting this forum. Our number 1 technical priority for the new product line was acoustic noise performance. The system has been designed from the bottom up, including all new color wheel designs and low-noise fans, to produce the least noise possible at this price point.


3. Please explain the advantages of Pixelworks vs Faroudja and "2D" vs "3D".

This is a complex question with mutliple viewpoints so I will probably clarify some of the points later. There are 3 technical reasons for the move away from Faroudja.

- The Faroudja deinterlacing solution for projectors has fallen behind the times in that it cannot do advanced deinterlacing for high resolution interlaced sources such as 1080i. The Pixelworks deinterlacer does not have this limitation.

- The Faroudja chip requires the use of relatively old video decoders because of very tight timing requirements and therefore we have always been forced to use an 8-bit video decoder with it. For the Pixelworks solution we are using a brand new 10-bit video decoder.

- InFocus has a very good relationship with Pixelworks since the company was formed by former InFocus employees and it resides about a mile away from our headquarters in Oregon. This allows us to have quick turnaround for any issues we are seeing, allows us to access the full performance of the hardware in the shortest time period, and lets us have some say in their future roadmap of offerings.

The two deinterlacers have very similar performance. They are both pixel-based motion compensated deinterlacers with film cadence detection and low angle interpolation for video sources. Using various deinterlacer "torture" tests available such as the HQV or Video Essentials (and Peter Finzel's disc for PAL) discs Faroudja wins some tests and Pixelworks others, but the differences are minor. That is, until you switch to 1080i where we are forced to do simple bob deinterlacing with the Faroudja part and Pixelworks wins hands down.

The difference between 2D and 3D comb filters is that 2D filters look at a single frame whereas 3D filters look at multiple frames (the 3rd dimension is time). Comb filters reduce the image artifacts associated with composite video sources but have no effect on any other sources. In general, 3D comb filters are necessary to elimate the color moire in high frequency details and 2D comb filters are good enough to elimate all the other artifacts such as dot crawl. The IN72 and IN74 have 2D comb filters and the IN76 has a 3D comb filter. There are many good internet references on the subject of comb filters, so I won't say any more on this subject.

2. What are the noise levels?

We have chosen once again not to publish our actual noise testing results because the ISO standard test that we use is not the same as other manufacturers methodology so from a marketing standpoint we may look worse than we really are. However, as it stands right now the IN72, IN74, and IN76 comprise the 2nd quietest product line we have ever designed, and far quieter than the SP4805. The quietest of our products is still the SP777, but that's not a product aimed at the people visiting this forum. Our number 1 technical priority for the new product line was acoustic noise performance. The system has been designed from the bottom up, including all new color wheel designs and low-noise fans, to produce the least noise possible at this price point.


Bob, thanks much for your responses thusfar. I have a question regarding the operating altitude spec on the IN76, which the PDF states to be limited at 7,500' above sea level. I live at 7,600' and am wondering what that means for this PJ. Can I use it and just expect a reduced bulb life, or am I going to risk having some sort of other thermal breakdown problems? Does the IN76 have a variable fan speed for higher altitudes, and if so, how much louder is that than the normal fan noise?

RIght now I run a Panasonic on low lamp mode (92" screen, light controlled room, don't really need the lumens) and high fan speed for the altitude, and find the noise to be basically a non-issue. It's *significantly* quieter than the 7210 I demoed, enough to help sway the purchase decision. My concern is that, given the 7,500' limit listed, I'll either have to crank up the IN76's fan so high that it sounds like a 7210, or I won't be able to use it at all.

Thanks,
Sean

Why are the lens throws so short on the model 74 and 76? Some of us want to use 2.35:1 screens and the anamorphic lenses need as long a throw as possible so as not to have image cropping, pin and barrel distortions, and chromatic artifacts. A throw ratio of 1.50:1 is the bare minimum for the Prismasonic horizontal lenses, for instance. Having the lens inset doesn't help any either.
We responded to users' concerns that the previous throw ratios we had in our products were too long. In general, the shorter the throw, the more rooms the projector will fit into.
Will all three models have the proper 2.35:1 stretch mode with no image cropping needed for anamorphic lens usage on all video resolutions (from 480i to 1080p)?
The "Letterbox" resizing mode can be used for anamorphic lenses. This mode chops the top and bottom 1/8 of the image off and stretches the remaining image to fit the 16:9 display. Typically it would be used for non-anamorphic DVDs but it stretches anamorphic content the same amount that an anamorphic lens should unstretch it. It works the same way for all input types.
Will your Pixelworks scaler properly "weave" 1080i signals, and not "bob" those signals to 540p (you only get half the vertical resolution of the original signal by bobbing 1080i) before conversion to the native resolution of the panels? That is an issue with many HDTV's internal scalers on the market.
Yes. Not only will it properly deinterlace film-sourced content at all resolutions, it will also smartly deinterlace video based content to reduce jagged edges.
Will your new projectors accept all forms of 1920x1080p signals from the new Blu-Ray and HD-DVD format players (those that properly output 1080p video, that is)?
Yes. They all accept 1080p at 60 Hz and 24 Hz.
Will the optic pathway, DLP chip and color wheel, and lens assembly, etc. all be sealed for no dust blob issues?
The optical engines are dust resistant with all major dust paths gasketed. This is a great improvement over the SP4805 but the engines are not completely sealed.

Where does the projector (76) vent (back, bottom)? How close to a back wall can the projector be mounted hanging from a ceiling mount about 12" below the ceiling?

Thanks

Any reviews on tap that you know of for the 76?
I do not know of any in-depth review yet. Review units have only just gone out, so the reviews you are likely to see at this time are the ones based on demos that our sales force has been giving.

Thanks for the info Bob, as usual. Two quick questions:

1. Will there be a separate video dvi setting (instead of having to adjust RGB gains/offsets)?

2. Will the IN76 be able to sync at either 48Hz or 72Hz?

Was anything done to minimize or eliminate color wheel contamination from the outgassing of the plastic lamp housing?
Yes. The lamp housing in the new line is aluminum which does not outgas.

What performance improvements (if any) are you seeing in these PJs vs the older DC2 projectors?
The biggest change is the pricing for the 576p and 720p units. The contrast is also higher than our previous DC2 products. And the new case design allows for a more home-optimized product. There are no longer any screens to clean, the units are very quiet, and the light leakage is minimized.

The lumen spec states "1000 ANSI Max". (Heh, how'd you tweak another 250 lumens out of a bulb with the same wattage as the 4805's! :D) I assume that's high power mode. What's the lumen spec for low power? Is it 800?
The lumens scale with lamp power so for a 200 watt lamp at 1000 lumens you get 800 lumens at 160 watts.

@Bob Williams

What about BrilliantColor?

k

Bob -

I hope Infocus is good to you at bonus time because you are a HUGE reason that I am such a big fan of Infocus products. Access to "the man" is rare and I for one really appreciate it.

Thanks for the response Bob! The new projectors sound great and it looks like you've done an excellent job in addressing the few "problem spots" that the 4805 has. I'm especially glad to hear about the lower fan noise, the improved dustproofing, and the aluminum lamp housing. Consider me signed up. :)

Any chance of the firmware including a digital lens shift? Having the ability to move a 2.35:1 image to the top or the bottom of the screen would sure make masking a lot easier.

Thanks again
Jeff

Thanks for the info. Bob!

Bob,

I remember your request in the thread a long time back about getting forum feedback for a new case design. Its fun to see the finished design and know the company listened to their customer's suggestions.

Looking forward to the 720P unit

Thanks again Bob, it's very cool to hear this info straight from you.

I'd like to say that I really like the case design of the new line. It's a very stylish, futuristic and cool design. The only PJ that would look better on my ceiling would be a 777 ;) and since that's outside of my price range, the visually appealing case design of the IN76 will fill in admirably.

Does Infocus have any plans to release these PJ's in any other colors ? I have a pretty strong feeling that a white case would garner a very high WAF.

I like the sound of the gasket design to keep dust from entering into the optics and thereby not having to clean any screens. Would having no screens allow dust to build up on the lamp and possibly affect it's performance ?

The 4805 had a recommended seating distance of 2 x's the screens width. Could you specify what the recommended seating distance will be for the IN76 ?

How many use presets will be available and will there be more than one per input ?

Would you care to elaborate on which video torture tests the Pixelworks and Faroudja chips outperformed each other on ? :D

Thanks for any further enlightenment you choose to bestow upon us.

Could you specify what the recommended seating distance will be for the IN76 ?You've got to get a copy of Excel or the free StarOffice 8 (http://www.sun.com/software/star/staroffice/index.jsp) workalike!

The recommended seating distance is part of the new screen calculator The seating distance to screen width ratios are:IN72 (480p) 2.00
IN74EX (576p) 1.67
IN76 (720p) 1.33

Bob,

Does Infocus have any plans for 1080p ? I went to Infocus booth at 2006 CES hoping for a sneak preview of your 1080p projector but it wasn't there. Nevertheless, the IN76 looks nice for 720p congrats. Took a few pics of your projectors and a couple screenshots.

IN76 720p projector

http://i45.imagethrust.com/p/202519/cespics2006day1and2096_jpg.html


IN76 screenshots American Choppers live 1080i cable feed

http://i49.imagethrust.com/p/202520/cespics2006day1and2091_jpg.html

http://i43.imagethrust.com/p/202522/cespics2006day1and2092_jpg.html

You've got to get a copy of Excel or the free StarOffice 8 (http://www.sun.com/software/star/staroffice/index.jsp) workalike!

The recommended seating distance is part of the new screen calculator The seating distance to screen width ratios are:IN72 (480p) 2.00
IN74EX (576p) 1.67
IN76 (720p) 1.33
:D :D :D Sorry cavu.

The only time I've ever needed to use Excel on my home PC was for when using this version of the Infocus projector calculator. I went to the link you provided and they want $69 to download Star Office 8. I guess it's no longer free. Thanks anyway for trying to help me out though.

I do appreciate the info you have provided.

I have a question regarding the operating altitude spec on the IN76, which the PDF states to be limited at 7,500' above sea level. I live at 7,600' and am wondering what that means for this PJ. Can I use it and just expect a reduced bulb life, or am I going to risk having some sort of other thermal breakdown problems? Does the IN76 have a variable fan speed for higher altitudes, and if so, how much louder is that than the normal fan noise?
The fan speed does adjust based on the internal temperature of the projector. We make sure all of our internal components can handle 10,000 feet altitude for design margin above the 7,500 feet reported in the data sheet. However, because for you we'd be in the design margin I cannot recommend the projector for your environment. I believe it would be fine but cannot guarantee it.

The fans will turn up quite a bit at that altitude, but I do not know how that will compare to the sea level performance nor how it compares to a 7210.

Where does the projector (76) vent (back, bottom)? How close to a back wall can the projector be mounted hanging from a ceiling mount about 12" below the ceiling?
Air enters through the side closest to the lens and exits through the other side. There are no other vents. You can mount the projector as close to a back wall as the stiffness of the cables allow.

1. Will there be a separate video dvi setting (instead of having to adjust RGB gains/offsets)?

2. Will the IN76 be able to sync at either 48Hz or 72Hz?

1. Right now the projector automatically sets the digital video level based on the input type. For all video formats the projector will set the levels to DVI-V and for computer formats it will set it to the full DVI range. We also plan to implement a user controllable switch in the software but it is unclear at this time whether it will make the first production release of the product.

2. It should sync to 48Hz with no problem. 72 Hz sources will be frame rate converted to 60 Hz, so I do not recommend 72 Hz sources be used. This is pretty typical of DLP products with color wheels due to the allowable motor speeds. We frame lock to all sources from 48 to 62 Hz and frame rate convert everything else.

What about BrilliantColor?
BrilliantColor is not included in any of the new projectors.

Thanks for all of the information as usual, Bob. I'll most likely be sticking with Infocus for my third upgrade in three years! Quit making your products better every year. Damn you!!!!!! :D Of course, I'm kidding. Keep improving.

I have a quick question about the new DC2 chip in the IN76, are the black levels any different than in the older DC2 chips? How about compared to the 4805 (my current projector)?

Thanks again, Bob!
George

Are you using the 1280x768 chip and just shutting off the pixels for 1280x720p, or is this the same HD2+ engine as previous models? I wonder about light spray around and through the unused pixels on these new PJ's (mits and optoma) with the 4:3 720p chip. Seems silly to me to go backwards to 4:3 rather than keeping a native 1.78:1 ratio chip so there can't be excess light spill.

Dan

Here's the specs for IN76 per Infocus:

INFOCUS TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS*
COMPATIBILITY
Video: Component and RGB HDTV (720p, 1035i, 1080i, 1080p-24Hz), 24p. DVI/HDMI with HDCP
for digital video and encrypted digital video. Component EDTV (480p, 576p progressive
scan), Component, Composite and S-Video standard video (480i, 576i, 576i RGB SCART
with adapter, NTSC, NTSC M 4.43, PAL: B, G, H, I, M, N; SECAM: M]
Computer: Digital and analog PC, Macintosh®, up to 1024x768 resolution through intelligent
resizing (Separately available M1-A (for analog sources) or M1-D (for digital sources)
cable required.)
Communication: USB (with separately available M1-A or M1-D cable).
RS-232
INPUTS AND OUTPUTS
1 - Component (RCA): HDTV, EDTV (progressive), and Standard TV component video (interlaced)
1 – S-Video: Standard TV Video
1 – Composite (RCA): Standard TV Video
1 – DVI: HDTV RGB, HDTV Component, Digital Visual Interface (DVI) with HDCP decryption,
computer, and USB, HDMI via available adapter
1 - HDMI: SDTV, EDTV, HDTV Component (4:4:4 or 4:2:2) and RGB digital video, Interface (HDMI)
with HDCP decryption
1 – 3.5mm Mini-Jack: 12v screen drop trigger
SCART RGBS: RGBS through component and composite video connectors with separately available
adapter
1 – 9-pin D-connector: RS-232
IMAGING TECHNOLOGY
Imaging Technology: Texas Instruments® DLP® DarkChip2™ 720p 12° DMD
Resolution: 1280 x 720 (16:9 widescreen)
Projection Lens: Fully recessed 12 element zoom lens, all glass, F/2.4-2.8, 21-27mm focal length
(1.3:1 zoom ratio) with rack and pinion focus and zoom control
Color Wheel: Proprietary, 6-segment color wheel (6500K color temperature), D65 color calibration
Calibrated Contrast Ratio: 3000:1 full on/full off, typical
Lamp (dual mode): 160/200 Watt SHP, 3000 hours average lifetime**
Video Optimized Lumens: 1000 ANSI max
Projection Modes: Front/rear/ceiling mode
Focusing Distance: 5' (1.5m) to ∞
Keystone Correction: Digital, up to +/- 20° vertical
SMPTE Brightness: Up to 12' (3.7m) wide on a 1.0 gain screen
Video Processing: Pixelworks™ DNX™ 10 bit video decoder and scaler, advanced motion adaptive
deinterlacing for Standard and High Definition sources (including 1080i), 3D comb filter
Throw Ratio: 1.52:1 – 1.92:1 (distance/width)
GENERAL
Product Dimensions: 4.7" (120mm) Height x 14.2"(360mm) Width x 14.2"(360mm) Depth, not including stand
Weight: 9.3 lb (4.2 kg)
Power Supply: 100V – 240V at 50/60 Hz
Operating Temperature: 50° F (10° C) – 95° F (35° C)
Operating Altitude: 0 – 7500’ (2300m)
Conformances: UL, c-UL, TUV GS, GOST, C-Tick, NOM, IRAM, FCC Class B, ICES-003 Class B, CISPR22/
EN55022, EN55024/CISPR 24, CB certified in accordance with IEC60950 1/EN60950 1,
MIC, CE, CCC, VCCI, WEEE
Ships with: Power cord, home entertainment remote control, composite cable, printed Quick Start
Card, CD-Rom with User’s Guide
Warranty: 1 year parts and labor, 90 days for accessories – Additional extended product
warranties available
Lamp Warranty: 90 days – Additional extended 1 year lamp warranty available
Menu Languages: English, Spanish, French, German, Japanese, Korean, Portuguese, Italian, Norwegian,
Russian, Chinese Traditional, Chinese Simplified
* InFocus reserves the right to alter product offerings and specifications at any time without notice.
** Actual lamp life may vary based on the ambient environment. Conditions that may affect lamp life
include temperature, altitude or rapidly switching the projector on and off.

Sounds good to me....Prices seem to be coming down and I will be purchasing in the next 8-12 months.

Anyone want to hazzard a guess as to relative street prices??? Hopefully, there'll be some good deals from the start because of the stiff competition in this price range.

I hope the drop in warranty length isn't indicitive of the quality.

I'm at around a mile high (in approx. the same ballpark as Denver). Will the IN76 (or any of the new line for that matter) work well in the low lamp mode, or is the high altitude going to be a factor?

Dan

I'm looking into upgrading from my three year old X1 to the new IN76. I was at the short throw end of the X1's range, which is very similar to the long throw end of the IN76's range. With the reduced vertical offset of the IN76, it looks like I can hang the IN76 just below my X1. See attached simulation. Perfect for A-B comparisons.

1. Right now the projector automatically sets the digital video level based on the input type. For all video formats the projector will set the levels to DVI-V and for computer formats it will set it to the full DVI range. We also plan to implement a user controllable switch in the software but it is unclear at this time whether it will make the first production release of the product.


Thanks for the answer, Bob; however, won't this be an issue for HTPC users using vmr9 as the video renderer (since we have to restrict the 0-255 to 16-235)? It would seem to me that the IN7X would set an HTPC running vmr9 to the full DVI range. A user controllable setting would be awesome!! ;)

Bob - Does the IN76 use the new DDP3020 as a DMD controller? If not, does the IN76 have anything proprietary to reduce the DLP panning dithering artifacts?


All,

I don't think this was highlighted:

>Lamp Warranty: 90 days – Additional extended 1 year lamp warranty available

For those of us dealing with the MT700's, PE7700's, or H7x lamp failures this seems like a pretty good deal for a year of worry free projecting. The price on the net is very reasonable. That, along with Infocus' reputation, may push me over the edge on this pj.

EDIT: Removed MSRP speculation.

Bob Williams. The only reason the IN76 is still in the running for me.

Nigel

Any chance of the firmware including a digital lens shift? Having the ability to move a 2.35:1 image to the top or the bottom of the screen would sure make masking a lot easier.
No it does not. This is one of the items that was on the list of nice-to-haves, and we just did not have time to implement it.

Does Infocus have any plans to release these PJ's in any other colors ?
Not at this time.

Would having no screens allow dust to build up on the lamp and possibly affect it's performance ?
There is a small tradeoff between having screens and not having them in that the lamp is exposed to more dust without them. However, unless someone is religious about cleaning screens every week I believe that getting rid of them promises more lamp life than having them. We really drove to have a zero maintenance product here.

Could you specify what the recommended seating distance will be for the IN76 ?
1.33 times the screen width

How many use presets will be available and will there be more than one per input ?
There are 3 user presets as well as one remembered for every connector. We have also added a default preset to get you back to the factory setting if you get lost. Also, there are now discrete remote codes for each preset.

Would you care to elaborate on which video torture tests the Pixelworks and Faroudja chips outperformed each other on ?
I would prefer users to get their hands on a projector and test it for themselves because this is subjective and I am unfortunately biased. :)

Does Infocus have any plans for 1080p ?
As I have said before, I cannot comment on any unannounced products.

I have a quick question about the new DC2 chip in the IN76, are the black levels any different than in the older DC2 chips? How about compared to the 4805 (my current projector)?
The black levels of the DLP devices themselves should be the same, but we have improved the optical engine a bit to get the contrast higher than before. That's why we can claim 3000:1 contrast for the IN74 and IN76. I believe the average contrast we are measuring for the IN72 is higher than the SP4805 as well, although we are claiming the same contrast as before.

Thanks for the answer, Bob; however, won't this be an issue for HTPC users using vmr9 as the video renderer (since we have to restrict the 0-255 to 16-235)? It would seem to me that the IN7X would set an HTPC running vmr9 to the full DVI range. A user controllable setting would be awesome!! ;)
That's why we are planning on making it the user's choice as to the video levels desired, but this function may have to wait for the first firmware maintenance release.

That's why we are planning on making it the user's choice as to the video levels desired, but this function may have to wait for the first firmware maintenance release.

Is digital lens shift on the firmware development timeline? Or was it dropped completely?

Bob - Does the IN76 use the new DDP3020 as a DMD controller? If not, does the IN76 have anything proprietary to reduce the DLP panning dithering artifacts?
No, it uses the DDP1010 controller which is the same as we use on the SP7210. As far as "DLP panning dithering" or what we like to call temporal contouring is concerned, I will say that I believe we spend more time optimizing the bit sequences for the DLP devices than anyone, and they are proprietary to us alone. The bit sequences determine the mirror behavior during each frame of the image.

Bob Williams. The only reason the IN76 is still in the running for me.

Nigel

Totally agree. I was starting to get set on the Optoma H72 until Bob chimed in... (I still reserve final opinion until we get some real life PQ reviews.... ohhh and a real life street price from both vendors). :)
Regardless - thanks Bob!

Mike

Yah...right now it's Lens Shift (AN110), Cheap (H72) or Bob (IN76). :)

Nigel

PS Note to Bob's Boss: He deserves a raise. :)

Bob,

1) I take it that the DMD is NOT the new 1280x768 device. Correct?

2) The original lamp on my X1 exploded, and the lamp housing screens contained the glass fragments. If there are no screens, how is a possible lamp explosion handled?

3) Color wheel effective speed - 4x, 5x, or ?? (A friend gets a headache from my X1.)

I can't open the calculator for some reason, "IE cannet find the site". Anyone else have this issue?

John

I can't open the calculator for some reasonWorks fine from here. PM me with your email address and I will send it to you.

I can't open the calculator for some reason, "IE cannet find the site". Anyone else have this issue?

Happens when I try to launch it as well. Right click and save it to your PC instead - that'll work fine.

Thanks guys. Good to go...

John

Bob,

I'll add my thanks for the info you are providing. You are a one of a kind.

The achilles heel of the Tsunami platform has been the poor longevity of the colorwheel motors. Can you comment on what, if anything, has been done to improve the colorwheel motors and/or share some life testing data on them?

Is there a dead pixel policy?

Will these units continue to use the soft power feature or can they be fully powered off with the remote control?

Can you comment on any changes in the menu structure? Have you added a sleep timer?

Is there any stray light at all escaping through the front panel?

Any image geometry issues like the bowing on the SP7200?

When appropriate can you post the magic "Bob Williams" numbers for offset/gain for the digital ports?

Is the lens threaded to easily accept an ND filter?

Thanks Bob,

htr

Wow. This is great. Many answers have been provided to what must seem like an avalanche of questions. Thanks Bob, I'm sure these take up a good deal of your time but I hope you don't get too tired of answering these just yet as I'm sure there are many more to come and I've got a few more myself. :)

Will the remote be backlit in the same way as the 4805"s or will it be done differently so it's a bit easier to see ?

With Optoma having a standard 3 year warranty on their new HD72 and it being the main competitor to the IN76,
I was wondering if the standard 1 year warranty from Infocus is something that is set in stone ?

Conceding 1 year to Optoma on the warranty front is palatable, but giving them 2, this will be a mighty big plus for Optoma and will sway many into their camp and is something that conceivably could cost Infocus much more in the long run due to lost sales. Hopefully the powers that be who make those decisions will revisit that one.

As for myself, I'm definitely staying with Infocus for my upgrade to the 4805, whether it'll be the IN76 with an extended warranty or the SP7210 is still up in the air. Just waiting for some reviews to start rolling in. ;)

closer to the ceiling with it being ceiling mounted right?Yes.

not right side up table mounted, that would be a larger offset, right?The offset is the same regardless of projector mounting. The only difference is that the offset is at the top of the image for ceiling mounting and at the bottom for table mounted.

In other words, a smaller offset places the image closer to the ceiling for ceiling mounted units and closer to the floor for table mounted units.

If this thing street at $2000.00(IN76) I'm in. It will replace my 4 month old IF 4805 who's color wheel has slowly become noisier and noisier. Excellent PQ for the price though.

Since I watch like maybe 90% HD, upgrading to at least a HiDef rez projector makes sense.

I think the problem with the IN76 is that its not as fully featured as the AN110 or as inexpensive as the H72. Between the warranty and price difference the IN76 doesn't look as compelling as the H72 unless they street reasonably close.

Yes.

The offset is the same regardless of projector mounting. The only difference is that the offset is at the top of the image for ceiling mounting and at the bottom for table mounted.

In other words, a smaller offset places the image closer to the ceiling for ceiling mounted units and closer to the floor for table mounted units.


thanks bud, i got my wording wrong, i realize the offset wouldn't change one way or the other, but just double-checking that when ceiling mounted, i can keep my screen pretty close to the ceiling. thanks again :)

go seahawks!!!

I think the problem with the IN76 is that its not as fully featured as the AN110 or as inexpensive as the H72. Between the warranty and price difference the IN76 doesn't look as compelling as the H72 unless they street reasonably close.
I don't think the AN110 is really going to have much of an impact at all. LG just doesn't seem to be widely distributed in this country. Dealers seem to be almost non-existent. It does have a few more features than the IN76, such as lens shift and power zoom, but it also has a higher MSRP ($3500, mentioned in the CES reports) and more likely a higher street price as well. Power zoom I can do without, and since the IN76 has a reasonable offset, lens shift lessens in importance. Also, if you can mount the LG on a back wall you're golden, otherwise a ceiling mount configuration would be just goofy IMO.

I think the Optoma is a more compelling competitor. They seem committed to bringing the H72 to market under $2k. Infocus will have to compete with that price point with the IN76. Although the MAP and MSRP for the IN76 is currently stated to be $2999, I believe that by the time the projector is released in March, the MAP will have changed to $2499. I believe it will remain that way for 6 months, at which point it will drop to $1999. I hope I'm not wrong here.

I'm willing to spend $500 more to get the IN76. For one, I don't like the new 16:10 chip. It does nothing for me and I'd rather not have the extra light spill to deal with. Furthermore, from the opinions I've read, BrilliantColor sounds like it doesn't offer any real improvements at all. It isn't something I would base my decision on. Finally, the large offset of the Optoma just doesn't work as well for me.

I just feel more comfortable with InFocus. Ya, the 1 year warranty is a bit of a downer, but they certainly have a reputation for reliable projectors. And you know you're going to be getting a PJ that is going to deliver accurate colors/greyscale right out of the box.

Xylon

I think you would have to wait for MSRP cuts - no dealer is going to be doing 33% off. Not even on the SP7205. Check back in six months after release and see where pricing is - the MSRP in the thread title was incorrect - it is $2999. In the meantime get your SP4805 serviced - that is what your warranty is for.

Based on what was originally posted 2499.00 I surmised that it will street somewhere around 2K.

Now that is corrected $2500.00 is not too bad street price :D.

If the IN76 is within $500 of the H72 when I finally need to pull the trigger I'll consider it. Given the pace of technology I've gone the cheap route as much as possible. Less to depreciate.

For my install I can do either a ceiling mount or a shelf mount. Powered zoom is useful to me because I have ambient so in the day time I zoom in. Its not that I'm particularly lazy but I find I move the mount slightly from time to time and then spend a couple minutes tweaking it back to center. Powered zoom would eliminate that and increase WAF. :)

Nigel

I'm willing to spend $500 more to get the IN76. For one, I don't like the new 16:10 chip. It does nothing for me and I'd rather not have the extra light spill to deal with. Furthermore, from the opinions I've read, BrilliantColor sounds like it doesn't offer any real improvements at all.

If they aren't using the 0.65" DMD 1280 x 768 chip , which is what I thought all the new 720P projectors at CES were using, then what?

I agree that I'd rather just have 1280x720 but I'm not reading any real negative comments about the .65 chip. I was thinking that was one reasons they are lower in price, because of that chip.

I haven't exactly been keeping up with it all in detail, but it appears that only the DC3 chip has "some" better blacks. Which makes me wonder if Infocus will replace the SP7210 with another DC3 or just let the 1080P take its place. A distributor told a Infocus dealer that I do business with, they are going to come out with another DC3 unit. But of course I have no idea if to believe that or not.

I haven't read much about the .45 720P chip that TI announced at CES.

If they aren't using the 0.65" DMD 1280 x 768 chip , which is what I thought all the new 720P projectors at CES were using, then what?

I agree that I'd rather just have 1280x720 but I'm not reading any real negative comments about the .65 chip. I was thinking that was one reasons they are lower in price, because of that chip.

From post #3 in Jason's CES report, (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6856448&&#post6856448) the 720p DC2 chip is evidently new, although why TI would do this when they already have a 720p DC2 DMD is a little beyond me, unless it offers improvements in some area.

I've heard nothing negative about the new 16:10 chips either, it's just that I would prefer to have a standard 16:9 chip and not have to deal with a non-standard screen size or light spill beyond a 16:9 screen. :)

From post #3 in Jason's CES report, (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6856448&&#post6856448) the 720p DC2 chip is evidently new, although why TI would do this when they already have a 720p DC2 DMD is a little beyond me, unless it offers improvements in some area.

I've heard nothing negative about the new 16:10 chips either, it's just that I would prefer to have a standard 16:9 chip and not have to deal with a non-standard screen size or light spill beyond a 16:9 screen. :)


Yeah, I saw the CES thing from Jason. But,, he said the exact same thing about the Optoma HD72 and Sharp Z3000. Both of those are using that .65" DC2 DMD 1280x768. Anyway, it will become clear soon what it is...

Could it be the 1280 x 768 DMD with 48 rows of pixels masked off?

Is digital lens shift on the firmware development timeline? Or was it dropped completely?
I do not believe that this feature is on the development timeline. It required rewriting a significant portion of the software to implement because it would have changed the way our vertical image position control actually worked. We decided that the complexity of the job was not worth the effort compared to the rest of the features.

Bob,

1) I take it that the DMD is NOT the new 1280x768 device. Correct?

2) The original lamp on my X1 exploded, and the lamp housing screens contained the glass fragments. If there are no screens, how is a possible lamp explosion handled?

3) Color wheel effective speed - 4x, 5x, or ?? (A friend gets a headache from my X1.)

1. It is the new 1280x768 DLP device. We are always using the middle 1280x720 and never turn on the other pixels.

2. Lamp ruptures are tested in every projector with a U.L. engineer present. We have created a path with multiple turns that effectively removes the energy from the glass particles before they leave the projector. The air flow easily manages the turns, but glass cannot. No screens are required.

3. 4x

The achilles heel of the Tsunami platform has been the poor longevity of the colorwheel motors. Can you comment on what, if anything, has been done to improve the colorwheel motors and/or share some life testing data on them?
We have switched to a motor that has significantly longer life than the one in the SP4805. The motor life is measured by its acoustic noise increase over time, and we believe we have a much more robust solution this time.

Is there a dead pixel policy?
Yes there is, but you will need to contact our technical support people for this information. I believe the policy is essentially the same as the production line specification for the DLP devices.

Will these units continue to use the soft power feature or can they be fully powered off with the remote control?
They can be fully powered off with the remote.

Can you comment on any changes in the menu structure? Have you added a sleep timer?
Yes, there is a sleep timer and many other enhancements. The user guide will soon be published on our web site and you will be able to see all of the changes then.

Is there any stray light at all escaping through the front panel?
No. A very small amount of light escapes from the sides. From a stray light standpoint this projector line performs better than any other we've designed, including the SP777.

Any image geometry issues like the bowing on the SP7200?
None that I notice to any great degree. These are "value" products so the image geometry is not absolutely perfect, but it's better than the SP7200 and many other competing products. I think very few will be dissatisfied.

When appropriate can you post the magic "Bob Williams" numbers for offset/gain for the digital ports?
I will be happy to.

Is the lens threaded to easily accept an ND filter?
No it is not. This is one feature I wanted, but the Industrial Design, which helps sell the product and protects the lens, is not compatible with an external thread.

Will the remote be backlit in the same way as the 4805"s or will it be done differently so it's a bit easier to see ?
The remote is new, but the button backlighting (which is blue now) is very similar to the current SP4805 remote. Other features of the new remote include a flashlight (so you don't have to fumble in the dark) and a special mode to turn on the discrete functions so that you can program an IR programmable remote directly from it.

I was wondering if the standard 1 year warranty from Infocus is something that is set in stone ?
I do not believe warranty policies are ever set in stone so if there are good reasons to change them we will. You can also purchase an extended warranty on the projector and/or the lamp.

I do not believe that this feature is on the development timeline. It required rewriting a significant portion of the software to implement because it would have changed the way our vertical image position control actually worked. We decided that the complexity of the job was not worth the effort compared to the rest of the features.

Since it is the new 768 panel...in a word: Bummer.

Sounds like a great product anyway.

Nigel

1. It is the new 1280x768 DLP device. We are always using the middle 1280x720 and never turn on the other pixels.

Hi Bob - just to clarify, are you saying the 48 vertical pixels not used will contain projected black? In other words, will there be light spill above and below the projected image?

Thx

Why did TI do this?? A non-native 1.78:1 chip just creates problems... like possible light leakage around the image. Dumb, really dumb IMHO. If it was a 2.35:1/2.40:1 chip... well, then I could live with that. :)

Bob, can you comment on possible problems with projected light leakage on the unused parts of the DMD?

Dan

hmmmmm... not what most of us wanted to hear, yes they will just be turned off/set to black they will not be masked in any manner. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. We'll see, it may be no big deal if the unit preforms well. Better than the 7200 in image geometry, thats not saying much. I'll wait for the reviews, but theres a ton of competition out there, the PE7700 at MSRP of $1,999 true 1280x720 HD2 DC2 looks not so bad now. No means a deal killer especially if the reviews are off the hook. But if they just come in as a good unit then I'll have to wonder why I would spend $500 more for the IN76. Any geometry issuses and I'd have to pass, it must be way better than the IF7200 as that one was flawed. Since it's 1280x768 I think it's kind of dumb to turn off the 48 pixels perminately that should be a user option no reason not to keep the extra flexibility. I want a true 1280x720 but I'll wait on the reviews to see if the IN76 is killer or not.

Why did TI do this?? A non-native 1.78:1 chip just creates problems... like possible light leakage around the image. Dumb, really dumb IMHO. If it was a 2.35:1/2.40:1 chip... well, then I could live with that. :)

Bob, can you comment on possible problems with projected light leakage on the unused parts of the DMD?

Dan

You probably read the press release TI did back when they released this chip. But, basically its so they can use the same one for business and HT. That's suppose to increase production and bring the cost down. So, like lots of times, its about the price.

I was looking in Twice magazine the other day, and they had a insert from TI. It was just showing the new projectors and I noticed that one company that is using this chip, listed 1280x720 native. Then 1280x768 compressed.

Well, even though they it appears this is kind of a dual mode chip, I'll be interested in hearing more reviews as more models come out. I'm assuming it works well though, or hope it does.

I wonder if Infocus will have a vertical shift, since its got those extra pixels.

I wonder if Infocus will have a vertical shift, since its got those extra pixels.Read back eight messages to #244 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6936161&&#post6936161)

...but theres a ton of competition out there, the PE7700 at MSRP of $1,999 true 1280x720 HD2 DC2 looks not so bad now
I've been closely following projectors for over 3 years on this forum, and without a doubt the PE7700/MT700 lamp problem is the biggest disaster I've seen. I wouldn't touch those PJs at any price. Even the new design bulbs appear to be failing now.

I really feel bad for the affected owners of those PJs and wish them the best. Just spend a few minutes reading the threads. They don't talk about how to tweak their image, etc....it's all about bulb failures, dealing with customer service, class-action lawsuits, you name it.

You probably read the press release TI did back when they released this chip. But, basically its so they can use the same one for business and HT. That's suppose to increase production and bring the cost down.
Yikes, I must have missed that release, but if that's the reason why TI decided to go with a 15:9 chip then it still doesn't make any sense to me.

Business projection is still all about 4:3. The vast majority of computer monitors are still 4:3, and therefore so are the vast majority of business PJs. Even if a company was interested in getting a 16:9 business PJ, do you think they really care about the image improvements gained by not having to scale 1280 (or 1024) x 768 with the 15:9 chip?! Heck, at my company they don't even bother to try to install the projectors at the height appropriate to their offset - they just tilt it and keystone like crazy!

And certainly nobody in the HT market was clamoring for these either.

Oh well, I guess I just have to get use to the idea of 15:9 if I want a low cost 720p DLP. Hmmmm.....nobody in the Mits HC3000 thread seems to be complaining about this so maybe this issue is overblown.

1.6:1 is extremely popular with computers. Pretty much all Apple products are 1.6:1 now, including laptops, iMacs and displays. Though, from what I see, you're talking more like 1.67:1. Man, why can't we have one format for everything? Especially since computers are infinitely scalable.

Although, one wonders if you can get 1.6:1 or 1.67:1 screens......:eek:

Hi Bob - just to clarify, are you saying the 48 vertical pixels not used will contain projected black? In other words, will there be light spill above and below the projected image?
We do not illuminate the extra rows of pixels to achieve the maximum brightness with the pixels that we are using.

If someone could enlighten me as to what the problem is I would appreciate it. There is so little content at 1.78:1 that black bars are going to happen whether or not the display is native 16:9. Also, I would certainly use a 16:9 screen with these products and let the border absorb the black pixel area. We have included imbedded test patterns for easy setup with such a screen.

Bob, are the extra rows of pixels masked? If so then I wouldn't bother thinking about the digital shift feature. :)

I'm not certain as to what the problem is. With screen masking I'm not certain that I see spill on my crappy projector. With your black levels it really shouldn't be noticable.

In a related question: Will it support 1:1 pixel map at 1280x768 in case I want to hook my future Mac Book Pro to the projector? Or are we limited to 1280x720?

Nigel

The new 0.65" 1280x768-chip has a faster controller chip than the HD2+ DMD so motion blur/panning artifacts should be reduced. Good new for those of us who dislike this. 4x colour wheel speed is not equally exciting though.

Bob: why the decrease in CW-speed from HD2+-projectors despite a faster controller chip? Is it only to differentiate these products from those with DC3 or are there other reasons?

We do not illuminate the extra rows of pixels to achieve the maximum brightness with the pixels that we are using.

If someone could enlighten me as to what the problem is I would appreciate it. There is so little content at 1.78:1 that black bars are going to happen whether or not the display is native 16:9. Also, I would certainly use a 16:9 screen with these products and let the border absorb the black pixel area. We have included imbedded test patterns for easy setup with such a screen.
Hi Bob - the concern (at least mine) was that I'd have to deal with light spill above and below my screen (on my wall) if I set up a 15:9 projector to completely fill my 16:9 screen. Sort of the same issue you face when using a 16:9 screen with a 4:3 projector, only with smaller letterbox bars.

If you have a traditional fixed screen from one of the well known screen manufacturers, then you probably don't care that you have 3" etc. of extra letterboxing, since your screen border will likely absorb it. But there's so many different types of screens, setups, and borders in use, and the extra spill may or may not make a difference to you. Maybe this is worrying about nothing, I don't know. :)

Take my setup for example - I have a 16:9 DIY screen with no border. I use felt to mask the screen for 2.35:1 material. If the projected image is 15:9, that means I have projected black on my screen wall above and below the screen, and above my 2.35:1 masking (see my Gallery). Now my screen wall is dark brown, so it probably won't be noticeable, or will it? I don't know - I'd rather not find out. Also, what if someone had my exact setup but had a white screen wall? The spill would probably be clearly visible then. Not a big deal for sure, and certainly addressable with a border or masking, but having a true 720p projector was one thing I found appealing about the IN76 vs the other offerings such as the HC3000, which AFAIK projects a 15:9 image.

At any rate, it looks like a moot point since it sounds like the 48 pixels will not have projected black, and for all intents and purposes, the IN76 is a true 16:9 projector. :)

We do not illuminate the extra rows of pixels to achieve the maximum brightness with the pixels that we are using.

If someone could enlighten me as to what the problem is I would appreciate it. There is so little content at 1.78:1 that black bars are going to happen whether or not the display is native 16:9. Also, I would certainly use a 16:9 screen with these products and let the border absorb the black pixel area. We have included imbedded test patterns for easy setup with such a screen.

I'm with you on the black bars. I don't think anyone cares about the pixels for movie watching.

The problem is that some applications (particularly games, especially older ones) don't support widescreen resolutions. But you'll be hard pressed to find a game that doesn't support 1024x768, which usually an acceptable fallback. Without those 48 pixels, we can't use 1024x768 in a pixel-mapped mode.

Is even within the realm of possibility that the remaining pixels could be enabled with a firmware update?

JeffKB

1280x768 (WXGA) is an envelope that covers 1024x768 XGA and 1280x720P HD - surely a biz projector using the chip will have a native biz mode to map the XGA directly and pillar box the edges - just as the HT projector is going to letterbox the chip.
Hi Kras,

If TI needed to do a "one-size-fits-none, we-only-want-to-make-1-chip-for-everybody-and-it-needs-to-cover-XGA-dammit" solution, then I would have been OK with a higher resolution 1366 x 768 true 16:9 chip! :D

The older Sony LCD projectors used that resolution and it seemed to work very well. Of course the problem with that thinking is that TI would never offer higher resolution in their cheap DC2 720p chip versus their higher end DC3 720p chip.

Anyway, my last post on the topic, I promise. :)

I'm with you on the black bars. I don't think anyone cares about the pixels for movie watching.


Those pixels for movie watching are only relevant if you're an inch or so off in your installation and want to shift the image up or down 24 pixels. :)

I live with a tiny bit of keystoning because of that kind of scenario...my universal mount has a minimum height (unless flush which is too short) and my screen has a certain location its physically constrained to be. I'm off an inch or two offset wise. I suppose I could shim the screen off the wall.

My circumstance is likely rare but common enough that it might be handy if it could be cheaply implemented. Unfortunately for the IN76 this does not appear to be the case.

Nigel

Slight different question: Is Infocus planning on a presentation projector based on this DMD?

I'm fairly certain the response will be: No comment. :)

Nigel

The new 0.65" 1280x768-chip has a faster controller chip than the HD2+ DMD so motion blur/panning artifacts should be reduced. Good new for those of us who dislike this. 4x colour wheel speed is not equally exciting though.

Bob: why the decrease in CW-speed from HD2+-projectors despite a faster controller chip? Is it only to differentiate these products from those with DC3 or are there other reasons?
The lower the color wheel refresh, the higher the true bit depth and the less motion panning artifacts there are because the DLP device is on more of the time (fewer spokes to go through each frame). We do not currently have 5x wheels on any of our products.