...I notice it big time when my son is watching Noggin (216). In fact a few of 210's are poor. I see it on a lot of the 300 range movie channels. Channel 136 is really bad. It is all over the board on the SD channels. It is a shame because the HD looks as good as Bright House did.

Regards,
M

Where do you live? I'm in Fairfax County, Virginia and see the same thing. Although I wouldn't call the PQ poor, the 210 range for me is substandard. I haven't done a comprehensive check of all the channels, but I will check out channel 136 and the 300 range and report back.

I posted a post similar to yours awhile back and really didn't get much response other than disbelief, although one guy who lives in my area posted he is having PQ issues, but he hasn't posted in awhile. It's good to know that I am not alone.

As far as I know there are no contracts with FIOS - you can cancel at any time.


I can cancel anytime with a $99 cancellation fee (non prorated). And that is just for the TV service, there is another contract for the internet. Phone Co's love contracts and bad service.

There are tons of problems with the Moto box but I think that it is just another cable co DVR. I will get TiVo S3 as soon as it comes out, and kick the Moto box to the curb. I had a SA box and Dish DVR but did not know what I was missing in a DVR until I went to the DirecTiVo.

When comparing DirecTV to FiOS, they are both a very clear picture on a 27" or 20" SD TV. The 50" HD DLP is another story, I had overlapping service for about a month and would swith back and forth between the two and ended up watching SD on direc. The still picture on FiOS is a much crisper picture. HD content on FiOS is excellent when it works (audio drop outs, frame skipping, picture freeze up or tile). The other problem I have is that the audio and picture don't match up, they are always out of sync. I have had 2 moto boxes and tried 2 surround sound receivers.

The techs have problems fixing the TV problems because there are only 2 areas in So Cal that have FiOS TV and not many subscribers.

The other problem I have with Verizon is how there CSR and dispatch works. The two don't talk to each other. I have had problems for 4 months because I call the CSR they send a tech out, the tech can't fix it (only know how to replace boxes and make coax connections), the CSR closes the ticket as if it was fixed. Right now I can't keep them to keep my service connected. They disconnected it one nite at 7:30 pm and it took me 4 hours of phone calls to get them to come out the next day by noon and fix it (never told me why they disconnected it) I write this at work as once again, twice in 1 week, my service is disconnected.

I guess I should stop now. But why do I pay full price for a beta service, I don't know.

We were watching the 4400 on USA, one of the rare SD shows I watch. I switched back & forth between D* and FIOS and the results were absolutely laughable. The D* feed was very soft with a green veil over it and the FIOS feed was bright, sharp with very poppy neutral colors. The difference is just unreal! :)

I agree with you when it come to watching a still picture. However, when there is motion, picture flashing or camera panning the quality goes down hill. The motion in the picture becomes boxy (pixelation). For example Speed TV watching motorcycle racing, it is hard to read the lap times scroll across the top or see the background as the camera follows the rider. Food network, when mixing ingredients in a bowl the bowl becomes blocky. Style or E! actors/actress on the red carpet with cameras flashing become boxy. Fuel TV announcer was talking in front of a bush blowing in the wind, he was clear the bush was very pixelated.

I can cancel anytime with a $99 cancellation fee (non prorated). And that is just for the TV service, there is another contract for the internet. Phone Co's love contracts and bad service.

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Just goes to show that service differes within a company depending on where you are.

Here in Va, there's no contract - the only time the $99 cancellation fee comes into play is if you opted to get the $5/mo discount (for a year) for either Internet or TV service. And around here you can't get both discounts. I cancelled FIOS TV with no penalty.

I had the frame skipping issue a few weeks ago which I reported on this forum. VZ switched out my Moto DVR and it was better. However I noticed that it was back for awhile yesterday, but was OK by the evening.

I spoke with Verizon today and they indicated it could be the use of original coax wiring which isn't up to the task due to a long run. Interestingly I've never seen it on my upstairs TV (the shortest run in the house), but did see it on the longer runs downstairs. Could be something to this. At any rate FIOS is coming tomorrow to look.

I can cancel anytime with a $99 cancellation fee (non prorated). And that is just for the TV service, there is another contract for the internet. Phone Co's love contracts and bad service.

There are tons of problems with the Moto box but I think that it is just another cable co DVR. I will get TiVo S3 as soon as it comes out, and kick the Moto box to the curb. I had a SA box and Dish DVR but did not know what I was missing in a DVR until I went to the DirecTiVo.



I'm not sure where you got the info for service cancellation since the literature they gave me clearly shows no cancellation penality....unlike D*. As far as Tivo is concerned, I've had my HD Tivo swapped out twice for problems. Others I know have had similar problems. I think any of these DVRs are subject to issues, nobody has a corner on that market. ;)

I agree with you when it come to watching a still picture. However, when there is motion, picture flashing or camera panning the quality goes down hill. The motion in the picture becomes boxy (pixelation). For example Speed TV watching motorcycle racing, it is hard to read the lap times scroll across the top or see the background as the camera follows the rider. Food network, when mixing ingredients in a bowl the bowl becomes blocky. Style or E! actors/actress on the red carpet with cameras flashing become boxy. Fuel TV announcer was talking in front of a bush blowing in the wind, he was clear the bush was very pixelated.

I've had exactly the opposite experience. We were watching the Bird Migration show on HDNet on both FIOS and D*. D* was pixellizing with rapid movement on many occasions. The same scene on FIOS stayed absolutely intact with no pixellization whatsoever. Everyone complains about that issue with D* and it's one of the reasons so many people are unhappy with D*.

The same thing occurred with the 4400. FIOS showed absolutely no pixellization with any kind of movement and the picture was FAR superior to the garbage on D* complete with its green cast and haze. Even with static scenes, D* would show posterization in the walls in the background and FIOS just showed a clear colorful wall.

I've wanted to kick D* out for the last several years as their PQ went steadily downhill. It looks like I've now got that opportunity. I do agree though there may be some issue with dropped frames in some setups. It is interesting that my upstairs TV never showed the problem and has the shortest run and the other 3 HDTVs all showed the issue in varying degrees. My Sony Bravia in the kitchen was the worst and also has the longest run to the splitter. There just may be something to this....at least in my setup.

Mr_Maestro: You never said where you live. The quality of FiOS seems to differ quite a bit by location, and in some cases may just be a "breaking in" period for your particular area. When I first had mine installed in Flower Mound, TX the SD was very grainy, not much better (or perhaps even worse) than D*. After a couple of weeks this appeared to be fixed. I have noticed that our SD and VOD picture is crystal clear.

Here a clue: It should be difficult for you to tell the difference between an SD picture and the same picture upconverted on the HD channel. No, really.

Note that early Samsung DLPs were not known to have the best ability to display lower-quality video images, but that shouldn't really be an issue since you shouldn't be getting lower quality issues.

I hope it all works out for you.

In other news, I noticed the jumpy picture this weekend watching an HD rerun of "Two and a Half Men". My wife noticed it too, which is very unusual. She said she watched part of it earlier in the week and it wasn't missing frames then, which leaves me to conclude that the DVR must be up to something that is taking too many cycles and it can't keep up with the video processing. Note that other HD programs later in the weekend showed no such signs of missing frames. (No, I didn't save "Two and a Half Men" and try it later, which would have been an more-interesting test)

I don't know what this is.

Overall the Moto box has been reasonably good, even coming from an HD-TiVo. One of the secrets in my case was programming the FiOS controls on my Home Theater Master remote to mostly match the same or similar controls on the TiVo. If I or my wife had to use the FiOS remote we would likely not be so pleased.

In other news, I noticed the jumpy picture this weekend watching an HD rerun of "Two and a Half Men". My wife noticed it too, which is very unusual. She said she watched part of it earlier in the week and it wasn't missing frames then, which leaves me to conclude that the DVR must be up to something that is taking too many cycles and it can't keep up with the video processing. Note that other HD programs later in the weekend showed no such signs of missing frames. (No, I didn't save "Two and a Half Men" and try it later, which would have been an more-interesting test)



BTDT, I noticed that when I had this issue, it affected both the HD PVR as well as the regular HD receiver (non PVR). So I've got a feeling it's not related to the PVR. In fact my upstairs HD PVR has never shown the issue at all, but as I mentioned before, it has the shortest run to the box.

I've had exactly the opposite experience. We were watching the Bird Migration show on HDNet on both FIOS and D*. . .

I agree with you 100% if we are comparing HD. I was at BB this weekend looking at a $5000 plasma in the Magnolia section. It was playing Discovery HD Theater from a D* feed and it was very bad. I don't have a problem with HD content. It is just the SD stuff.

The tech replaced the ONT today with the latest (SFH ONT 611) . The tech played around with settings in the TV and on the Moto box with no luck. He left thinking it is the TV. I could see RCA putting a cheap scaler in the DLP. But I would think I would have the same problem no matter what the source is. Good thing I got the TV at Costco, I will have to see what I can trade it for...

Fortunately my experience with the SD channels is exactly the same as HD. They're just fantastic....for SD ofcourse! ;)

I ordered FIOS last Thursday and I have had it for several days. My plan was to switch from Dish Network.


SD Picture Quality (Poor)
The color of the FIOS picture is better. (Dish's colors are a little washed out probably due to overcompression.) However, most SD channels are grainy. Some channels are worse than others. (Not sure why) It's so noticeable that on some channels which display graphics with straight lines, the straight lines appear dotted or dashed. After switching between Dish's picture and FIOS's picture a few thousand times, I believe that FIOS's set top box is overstretching the image which is causing this grainy look. SD Local channels are displayed analog and not digital so they look like crap.


HD Picture Quality (Good)
I have no complaints here. HD looks good.


HD Local Channels (Avg)
FIOS is not displaying all the local HD channels. Most of the prime channels include a HD weather channel which either shows local radar or other weather programming. I was told by the technician looking at my SD problems yesterday that they just did not want to waste the bandwidth on weather channels. I also noticed that the one HD channel they do pick up (NBC weather plus), they down convert to 480i.


I have phoned the tech support number about the SD picture. The techs on the line are actually very good compared with other services. However, that support ends on the phone. The guys they dispatch to my home have been next to worthless. Both technicians only measured the RF signal strength which is not the issue. Neither were willing to check out the issue further than the potentially obvious problem of RF. The second one would not even admit there was a problem, just making excuses about the various channels I showed him.

Its frustrating seeing other posts saying FIOS's SD PQ is better than Dish. I am just not seeing it. I am located in Allen, TX. (For those interested in location) I have two big screen TVs, one plasma, the other projection. Both, are experiencing the same problem.

Honestly, I really wanted FIOS to succeed. I hate losing picture during a storm. However, now that I am officially frustrated, I am canceling FIOS and sticking with Dish.

Velshar, it seems that you are having a local issue. My SD is far better than D*'s. I had Dish about a year ago and wasn't happy with the service, but at that time I actually found D*'s SD to be better than Dish's due to the washed out color. FIOS is head and shoulders above either in my area.

There certainly is no shortage of local weather on FIOS. In fact FIOS has a feature that my wife is crazy about. You hit the "A" button and you get the local weather at the bottom as your primary program continues above. That's really neat! They also have the Weather Channel with local weather (something D* can't seem to do) and there's the NBC weather you mentioned.

Thus far the only problem I've had was the instance of stuttering video. If that's cured or doesn't recur, I will be better than 100% satisfied. Of course I still need the YES network in HD, but I was told they just need the 'code' to make that happen.

I have to side with Ken on my FIOS picture, To me it blows Direct TV away in every instance. SD and especially HD. It's nice to see what my TV is really capable of from a picture stand point. The issue with the picture jump is a simple box adjustment. To those having any pic issues get into the menu of your motorola box and adjust. As far as their customer service, I cant complain at all. They have been very responsive and prompt. The whole expierence is a 180 compared to Direct TV. My main problem with dtv hardware was the painfully slow guides and recording setups. The motorola box is extremely fast .

I just got a mailing that FIOS is available in my area (Massapequa, NY - Not Massapequa Park, which is the next town over). I gave them a call, and I learned that they don't carry the RSNs here in HD - SNY, YES, FSNY, & MSG. In fact, they don't carry FSNY or MSG at all. Cablevision owns them and is playing hardball. I told them that I wouldn't even consider switching without all of the RSNs in HD. Its the only reason I have Cable! Pricing seems to be similar, if not a little less for FIOS.

Velshar -

I live in Plano and I have the FiOS TV Service. If you would like to come and see what the picture looks like at my house (for a second data point) send me a PM. I never had D* so I cannot comment on that but I have to say that I am very happy with the quality.

Laters,
Jeff

I took a couple of pictures of my TV using a good quality high resolution digital camera. This difference can be seen in the photographs I have taken. I picked a channel with a fixed graphic (since channels in motion are going to appear blurry on the camera no matter what I do).

I am attempting to attach them to this message. This forum only allows 800x600 pixel photos, so I cut this sample from the large resolution image picture. The quality and original pixelation of the photo has not been changed.

Both were taken with the same camera, on a tripod, same lighting, etc...

The technicians checked my local connections. My RF strength is good, my SNR is good. If I were able to upload the whole picture you could actually see that the Motorola set top box is stretching the image more than the Dish box. (This is true eve if I display it in true 4:3 ratios.)

Here in Va, there's no contract - the only time the $99 cancellation fee comes into play is if you opted to get the $5/mo discount (for a year) for either Internet or TV service. And around here you can't get both discounts. I cancelled FIOS TV with no penalty.

When did you cancel FiOS TV? I thought you were one of the people who indicated the PQ was great. :eek:

I don't think I really understand this RF signal strength thing. Isn't the signal that comes from the ONT (as well as into the ONT) to the STB still a digital signal? If it is (and I think it is), the RF signal strength is either sufficient to transfer the digital signal, or it isn't, meaning you'll either see a picture in it's entirety, or the picture will be very, very, messed up (not just "not very good").

If this is true, to me the PQ issue HAS to be further upstream. How far up stream, I don't really know.

I don't think I really understand this RF signal strength thing. Isn't the signal that comes from the ONT (as well as into the ONT) to the STB still a digital signal? If it is (and I think it is), the RF signal strength is either sufficient to transfer the digital signal, or it isn't, meaning you'll either see a picture in it's entirety, or the picture will be very, very, messed up (not just "not very good").

If this is true, to me the PQ issue HAS to be further upstream. How far up stream, I don't really know.

I think the bigger issue is the optical strength coming to your house. I wouldn't think the optical -> digital conversion would have any RF strength issues. I hope there is no analog conversion at any point (unless using analog cables from the STB).

I'm also in northern VA (Burke) but have been relatively pleased with the SD content. I have a toddler so I'm in the 210 range often and haven't noticed any horrible PQ. I'll take a closer look tonight though (I'm usually not glued to the screen for The Wiggles ;)).

justin.

I just got a mailing that FIOS is available in my area (Massapequa, NY - Not Massapequa Park, which is the next town over). I gave them a call, and I learned that they don't carry the RSNs here in HD - SNY, YES, FSNY, & MSG. In fact, they don't carry FSNY or MSG at all. Cablevision owns them and is playing hardball. I told them that I wouldn't even consider switching without all of the RSNs in HD. Its the only reason I have Cable! Pricing seems to be similar, if not a little less for FIOS.

They're supposed to have YES HD shortly.

I took a couple of pictures of my TV using a good quality high resolution digital camera. This difference can be seen in the photographs I have taken. I picked a channel with a fixed graphic (since channels in motion are going to appear blurry on the camera no matter what I do).

I am attempting to attach them to this message. This forum only allows 800x600 pixel photos, so I cut this sample from the large resolution image picture. The quality and original pixelation of the photo has not been changed.

Both were taken with the same camera, on a tripod, same lighting, etc...

The technicians checked my local connections. My RF strength is good, my SNR is good. If I were able to upload the whole picture you could actually see that the Motorola set top box is stretching the image more than the Dish box. (This is true eve if I display it in true 4:3 ratios.)

Are both receivers hooked up the same way?

I think the bigger issue is the optical strength coming to your house. I wouldn't think the optical -> digital conversion would have any RF strength issues. I hope there is no analog conversion at any point (unless using analog cables from the STB).

justin.

The signal is all digital with no A/D or D/A coversion.

I had FIOS over today after I called them to tell them about my instance of stuttering video. Although that issue came and went, Verizon wanted to look at the installation anyway. I learned (according to the tech) that the stuttering video can come from a signal that's either too high or too low. He indicated that generally, unlike cable, their problem is with signals that are too high. It appears that the digital signal needs to be in the range of 0 to -5 db. The analog signal should be 0 to +5.

In diagnosing my receivers, he found the TV that had the worst stuttering during the period it occurred, was receiving a very marginally low signal level. Although there was no stuttering at the time, he saw that I was only 1-2 db away from an issue.

The interesting thing was that he found an unknown splitter leading to that TV. This apparently is one of the hazards when using the customer's existing wiring. Some homes have splitters that were installed before the house turned over and you may not even be aware of their presence. He eliminated that splitter and ran a homerun straight from the TV to the FIOS splitter. He did the same with another TV where I experienced some stutter during that instance (less than the first).

In some cases he indicated they have to put an attenuator on the receiver to tame a too strong signal. At any rate I'm very impressed with FIOS service and it will be interesting to see if I get a recurrence of the stutter.

So far so great. :)

Are both receivers hooked up the same way?


Yes, they were. No difference. I only had a single splitter between me and the TV and that was to send the signal to both boxes.

Ken, if you tune to the fox news channel, look at the logo most of their broadcasts display which is similar to the one in the picture I posted. Do those lines look solid or pixelated?

You can also cap any unused connections on the splitter they use.

Most of the prime channels include a HD weather channel which either shows local radar or other weather programming. I was told by the technician looking at my SD problems yesterday that they just did not want to waste the bandwidth on weather channels. I also noticed that the one HD channel they do pick up (NBC weather plus), they down convert to 480i.

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I don't believe there's a single local station that transmits its weather channel in HD - they're not downconverted - they're 480i to start with.

And it's not FIOS not wanting to waste the BW, it's the locals - they transmit the weather channel on a side channel (xx.2 or xx.3) along with the main HD channel (xx.1).

When did you cancel FiOS TV? I thought you were one of the people who indicated the PQ was great. :eek:
PQ was not the reason, PQ is great - I didn't feel it was right to pay someone to dumb down my kids - even with my best attempt at parental controls (I even blocked TV-Y programming) they spent way too much time in front of the TV.

The signal is all digital with no A/D or D/A coversion.


Depends on what you consider the RF signal from the ONT to STB.

There certainly is an analog tier for channels below 50.

I would consider the IPTV scheme used in its delivery of VOD as all digital.

I don't believe there's a single local station that transmits its weather channel in HD - they're not downconverted - they're 480i to start with.

And it's not FIOS not wanting to waste the BW, it's the locals - they transmit the weather channel on a side channel (xx.2 or xx.3) along with the main HD channel (xx.1).

Biker, I pick those channels up with my OTA HD Tuner. If those are 480i then they are the sharpest 480i images displayed over a 1080i screen I have ever seen.

Why would my HD tuner display them in 1080i when it displays the SD OTA channels in 480i?

The signal is all digital with no A/D or D/A coversion.

I had FIOS over today after I called them to tell them about my instance of stuttering video. Although that issue came and went, Verizon wanted to look at the installation anyway. I learned (according to the tech) that the stuttering video can come from a signal that's either too high or too low. He indicated that generally, unlike cable, their problem is with signals that are too high. It appears that the digital signal needs to be in the range of 0 to -5 db. The analog signal should be 0 to +5.

In diagnosing my receivers, he found the TV that had the worst stuttering during the period it occurred, was receiving a very marginally low signal level. Although there was no stuttering at the time, he saw that I was only 1-2 db away from an issue.

The interesting thing was that he found an unknown splitter leading to that TV. This apparently is one of the hazards when using the customer's existing wiring. Some homes have splitters that were installed before the house turned over and you may not even be aware of their presence. He eliminated that splitter and ran a homerun straight from the TV to the FIOS splitter. He did the same with another TV where I experienced some stutter during that instance (less than the first).

In some cases he indicated they have to put an attenuator on the receiver to tame a too strong signal. At any rate I'm very impressed with FIOS service and it will be interesting to see if I get a recurrence of the stutter.

So far so great. :)

The readings out the coax outlet should be 0 to +11 anolog and -10 to +5 digital. If you have higher readings you will burn up the settop box and or if you just hook directly to a tv could damage the tuner.

I spoke with Verizon today and they indicated it could be the use of original coax wiring which isn't up to the task due to a long run. Interestingly I've never seen it on my upstairs TV (the shortest run in the house), but did see it on the longer runs downstairs. Could be something to this. At any rate FIOS is coming tomorrow to look.

Ken Ross, When Verizon installed my FiOS they replaced all my cable with new cable. What was the result of the visit? PCW

Ken, if you tune to the fox news channel, look at the logo most of their broadcasts display which is similar to the one in the picture I posted. Do those lines look solid or pixelated?

Yes Velshar, I see what you mean by the lines being pixelated. But I'll tell you this, when you compare Fox News on FIOS with Fox News on D*, there is absolutely no comparison whatsoever. Even with the issue of a couple of lines being pixellated, the overall picture is so far superior on that channel to D*, it's almost comical. Voom is bright, clear and the colors are true. On D*, Fox News looks muddy with oversaturated colors and a very soft look. On FIOS faces look true with about as much detail as I could reasonably expect from an SD channel and D* just looks like poop. I'll tell you, I'll take FIOS's rendition of Fox News any day of the week.

Here's another important thing, I do NOT see the pixellated lines on any other FIOS SD channel. I tuned to others such as CNN and see a perfectly smooth line just as seen on D*. This issue seems to be isolated to a few horizontal lines on Fox News. But again, the comparison between CNN, Fox News and any other SD channel between D* and FIOS is almost comical. FIOS is THAT much better! I really don't think I can overstate that. :)

Ken Ross, When Verizon installed my FiOS they replaced all my cable with new cable. What was the result of the visit? PCW


PCW, I'm really impressed with Verizon's service. As I mentioned, that stuttering video was there for a couple of hours and cleared up by itself by the time we got home Saturday night, but yet Verizon still insisted on taking a look to see if there was anything they could do to prevent a recurrence.

The tech came and took signal level readings at the 3 TVs where I saw the stuttering. The worst offender, the kitchen Bravia XBR, showed low readings that were borderline acceptible. The tech felt that if the system levels dropped even 1 or 2 db, that could put me in a situation where I'd get a stutter on that TV. He tracked down an old splitter I didn't even know existed and he removed it and ran a homerun to the kitchen TV.

In my living room where I have a plasma, the readings there too were just borderline, but there he found the original installer had put a 6db attentuator on the line. On that set he decided to run another new wire as a homerun to the FIOS splitter and he went from a 6db attenuator to a 3db attenuator. Signals there are now good.

In the den he also went from a 6db to a 3db attenuator.

I think the bottom line on this is that for new installations, to be the safest, you're better off letting them install all new wires of known quality. I'd be willing to bet that some people that are using existing wiring have splitters they don't even know about. Many existing wires may be old, worn or even split in areas and will affect signal quality.

I'll certainly be keeping a close eye on this issue, but so far so good! Put me in the VERY pleased category. :)

PCW, I'm really impressed with Verizon's service. As I mentioned, that stuttering video was there for a couple of hours and cleared up by itself by the time we got home Saturday night, but yet Verizon still insisted on taking a look to see if there was anything they could do to prevent a recurrence.

The tech came and took signal level readings at the 3 TVs where I saw the stuttering. The worst offender, the kitchen Bravia XBR, showed low readings that were borderline acceptible. The tech felt that if the system levels dropped even 1 or 2 db, that could put me in a situation where I'd get a stutter on that TV. He tracked down an old splitter I didn't even know existed and he removed it and ran a homerun to the kitchen TV.

In my living room where I have a plasma, the readings there too were just borderline, but there he found the original installer had put a 6db attentuator on the line. On that set he decided to run another new wire as a homerun to the FIOS splitter and he went from a 6db attenuator to a 3db attenuator. Signals there are now good.

In the den he also went from a 6db to a 3db attenuator.

I think the bottom line on this is that for new installations, to be the safest, you're better off letting them install all new wires of known quality. I'd be willing to bet that some people that are using existing wiring have splitters they don't even know about. Many existing wires may be old, worn or even split in areas and will affect signal quality.

I'll certainly be keeping a close eye on this issue, but so far so good! Put me in the VERY pleased category. :)

Thanks Ken Ross. I seem to remember that my installer also placed an attenuator on my line, so if this happens again, I'll have them look at that first. I don't know what the db rating was. I couldn't agree more about the picture quality. I went from D* to FiOS and this is an incredible improvement in not only PQ but in the number of HD channels.

Biker, I pick those channels up with my OTA HD Tuner. If those are 480i then they are the sharpest 480i images displayed over a 1080i screen I have ever seen.Where are you located? I can only tell you about my area -- five weather subchannels, all 480i -- and generalize to say that no station is likely to waste the bandwidth on 1080i (taking away from their main signal), especially when their weather graphics probably aren't high-resolution to begin with. But, sure, they could be very sharp -- because some stations might send digital output directly from the weather computer to the encoder (no A/D conversions). Sadly, some stations clearly don't.

Re: Fox News, are you sure it isn't meant to be a dashed line (and is just fuzzed together by Dish)?

Re: Fox News, are you sure it isn't meant to be a dashed line (and is just fuzzed together by Dish)?

I'm not sure myself, but somehow I think it's meant to be a solid line. But honestly, this is such a totally trivial issue relative to the overall PQ you see on Fox News AND virtually every other channel HD & SD, this can't even be considered a blip on the radar. I'm finally getting the "WOW" back in HD!!!

If someone knows a direct number for the tech support people could you please post it here or PM it to me. I don't care if it is toll free or not.

I do not have phone service with Verizon (use Vonage) so everytime I call the toll free number provided in the documentation it dumps me into the sales department. Of course why would anyone without a Verizon phone number be calling support? Anyway I had two issues this weekend one was that the support folks kept trying to call to see if an issue was resolved (it wasn't) and another issue. Every time I called the toll free number I was dumped into a voicemail message that said sorry our offices are closed they are only open M-F 8-5:30 please call back then. ARGGHH!

Thanks in advance for any help.

Laters,
Jeff

In case anyone else without a Verizon phone number has this issue this is what you need to do.

1) Get the Tech Support people to give you your Video Circuit ID number. This is a very long number that tells them who you are so they do not have to figure it out each time.

2) As soon as the automated system dumps you into the Tech Support queue start saying "agent". Keep saying this until the nice lady says "I think that you want me to transfer you to an agent" and then say "yes". BAMM right into Tech Support even after hours.

I still think that it should be easier but they are a phone company...why would you call them without a phone number lol. At least this is a good work around.

Laters,
Jeff

Good info Jeff, but where do you dump that long number to?

PCW, I'm really impressed with Verizon's service. As I mentioned, that stuttering video was there for a couple of hours and cleared up by itself by the time we got home Saturday night, but yet Verizon still insisted on taking a look to see if there was anything they could do to prevent a recurrence.

The tech came and took signal level readings at the 3 TVs where I saw the stuttering. The worst offender, the kitchen Bravia XBR, showed low readings that were borderline acceptible. The tech felt that if the system levels dropped even 1 or 2 db, that could put me in a situation where I'd get a stutter on that TV. He tracked down an old splitter I didn't even know existed and he removed it and ran a homerun to the kitchen TV.

In my living room where I have a plasma, the readings there too were just borderline, but there he found the original installer had put a 6db attentuator on the line. On that set he decided to run another new wire as a homerun to the FIOS splitter and he went from a 6db attenuator to a 3db attenuator. Signals there are now good.

In the den he also went from a 6db to a 3db attenuator.

I think the bottom line on this is that for new installations, to be the safest, you're better off letting them install all new wires of known quality. I'd be willing to bet that some people that are using existing wiring have splitters they don't even know about. Many existing wires may be old, worn or even split in areas and will affect signal quality.

I'll certainly be keeping a close eye on this issue, but so far so good! Put me in the VERY pleased category. :)

I do not like using attenuators at all. If all your cable runs are home run they need to use a 6 way splitter and cap the the other outlets not being used. Two reasons, one is if you ever want to use one of the other outlets to a room for just local channels you can and other is I have seen attenuators cause problems later. just my 2 cents.

Where are you located? I can only tell you about my area -- five weather subchannels, all 480i -- and generalize to say that no station is likely to waste the bandwidth on 1080i (taking away from their main signal), especially when their weather graphics probably aren't high-resolution to begin with. But, sure, they could be very sharp -- because some stations might send digital output directly from the weather computer to the encoder (no A/D conversions). Sadly, some stations clearly don't.

?
Gotta second this - all weather feeds here are 480i - and sometimes the PQ is better than SD for the reason mentioned above.

It could be that the station you are tuning is somehow sending out some very bit challenged version of an HD signal which your TV is interpreting as true HD - but I very much doubt it really is.

Good info Jeff, but where do you dump that long number to?

You give the Video Circuit ID to the nice tech who answers the phone and can't figure out who you are because you don't have a Verizon phone number :) It really saves a bunch of "wait...hold on...what is your name...what is your address...are you sure to have FiOS TV...ah here is your account"

Laters,
Jeff

Ken Ross said: I think the bottom line on this is that for new installations, to be the safest, you're better off letting them install all new wires of known quality. I'd be willing to bet that some people that are using existing wiring have splitters they don't even know about. Many existing wires may be old, worn or even split in areas and will affect signal quality.

What does Verizon charge (if any) for running new coax from ONT to STB locations (ie through walls, between floors etc.?) I was assuming they would use the current cable infrastructure in my home but if I could get them to run new cabling that would be great.

Derek, no charge for installations as far as I know. I don't know at what point an installation would be considered 'above & beyond', but I think Verizon is pretty flexible.

I was told that if any outlets needed to be installed it would be around $50 an outlet. Of course this was the tech who came out to my house so perhaps you could swing it for free. In fact all he did was disconnect the cable from the cable company and then attached the coax from the ONT to the existing house wiring. Done deal.

There was no charge for the coax and ethernet run to the room where the router is located. So if you plan carefully you can get a coax run for free. I simply split the coax before it went into the router (using a bi-directional splitter) and hooked a STB to it. It works fine.

Laters,
Jeff

Told the same as everyone else, no charge for a run to be put in.

Thanks for the tip about the circuit ID, I called last nite and got mine.

I live in Arlington Virginia, Clarendon to be specific. I am told that Veriozon FiOS has been in the area for a while now, but apparently they still cannot get it into apartment complexes/condos?

Anyone live in Calrendon/Arlington know more about what is going on?

Also, Verizon told me that they re-broadcast all of the local OTA HD channels in their native 1080i mode... They said I wouldn't need a HDTV antenna because they give you all of the local HD channels.... can someone verify this fact and the fact the quality is tha same as if I had an HDTV antenna? It should be better if they can provide a good feed without relying on directionality from an HDTV antenna.

I simply DETEST COMSHAFT! I have been forced to use them for 9 years (Philly and Northern Virginia). I absolutely cannot stand Comcast with all of my heart and I wish that comany the worst in life. I cannot get a dish in my current apatment. Please advise!! Verizon FiOS would be great!!!

Also, I gave my father my Zenith HDTV direct TV set top box (model HDSAT 540 or 590?) It had a SDI output and I used it to upscale comcast cable and provide OTA HDTV, I didn't use the sattelite hookup. If I can get Fios, they apparently use Motorola products. Can we chose something else or are they fine? They don't have an OTA HDTV tuner built in... but not a big deal if Verizon gives us the local HDTV channels in their full native glory.

I do have a Lumagen scaler now, so I don't necessarily need upscaling capability, but I need something similar to the Zenith HDSAT box I gave to my dad to hold me over. Any recommendations? What is SAGE TV? A newer Zenith model with HDMI out? Maybe MyHD130 card via HTPC? What would you chose?

(I have a Ruby, ISCOIII, 130 inch diag 2.35 screen, Lumagen scaler, Tosh HD-A1 HD-DVD player)

I am told that Veriozon FiOS has been in the area for a while now, but apparently they still cannot get it into apartment complexes/condos?

Anyone live in Calrendon/Arlington know more about what is going on?I don't think they have any immediate plans to run fiber into apartments or condos, although if you are on the first or second floor of a complex, and don't mind having a hole drilled in the wall, you can probably get service installed just as you would in a home. With Fios in Arlington, every customer has a direct fiber line run straight from the telephone poll to their home, so the traditional cable infrastructure in complexes won't work. Fios installs a box on your outside wall (known as an ONT (http://www.bricklin.com/17009e10.jpg)) that converts the Fiber into RG-6/CAT5e, which then runs directly to your STB/DVR and ethernet router (which they provide, although you can use your own).

Fios has been ready in Arlington since early/mid 1995. Unfortunately, service was delayed in many areas due to the inability of Verizon to reach an agreement with Arlington County on its franchise agreement. Comcast Arlington fought it tooth and nail for 18 months. Some at Comcast were shown the door when Verizon finally got its franchise approved last month.

Also, Verizon told me that they re-broadcast all of the local OTA HD channels in their native 1080i mode... They said I wouldn't need a HDTV antenna because they give you all of the local HD channels.... can someone verify this fact and the fact the quality is tha same as if I had an HDTV antenna? It should be better if they can provide a good feed without relying on directionality from an HDTV antenna.I can verify that. Verizon carries the digital broadcasts of all the broadcast networks in our area. They carry 26 HDTV channels, including HD feeds from ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, NBC, UPN, and WB, as well as TNT-HD, ESPN-HD, ESPN2-HD, HDnet, HDnet Movies, Universal HD, Discovery HD, WealthTV HD, NG-HD, MTV-HD, and NFL-Network HD. They also carry MASN and CSN, although they do not yet have either in HD (working on that, I'm told). Quality on HDTV is identical to Comcast; quality on most of the SD is better than Comcast.

Verizon Fios channel lineup in Arlington, VA (http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/Includes/FiOSTV/VA_Northern%20Virginia.pdf)

Channel numbers through 50 are in analog; the rest are digital.

If I can get Fios, they apparently use Motorola products. Can we chose something else or are they fine?Fios uses the Motorola QIP6416 DVR w/ Microsoft Foundation Edition software. It generally works better than the SA8300HD w/ SARA used by Comcast Arlington, although it does have a few quirks which you can read about on the HDTV Recorders Forum. The Motorola plays recordings in progress from the very start, rather than from the current time position; it also recognizes duplicates to avoid recording of an episode already on the DVR, so one never has two copies of the same episode on their box. Unfortunately, the Motorola box also has less capacity -- 160Gb versus 250Gb, and can't be expanded with external drives like the SA8300HD (afaik).

Fios will support the Series3 HDTV Tivo with Cablecards when it is available, although with that product, you will lose out on VOD. There's not much in the way of VOD HDTV right now, although they claim they will offer a substantial amount of HDTV VOD in the next year.

As far as cost, Fios offers 180 digital channels -- which includes the HDTV channels -- plus 5Mbps/2Mbps Internet service for $79.90/month, or 15Mbps/2Mbps service for $10 more. Last year, they also offered 30Mbps/5Mbps service for an additional $10 ($54.95/mo), which is well below the advertised price, although I believe that offer is no longer available. There's no modem or STB fee, although the HDTV DVR does cost $12.95/mo.

Internet throughput is generally superior to Comcast, particularly on the 15Mbps/2Mbps plan. On Comcast Arlington, you will reach 12-16Mbps for short periods with Powerboost, but won't sustain it for more than 15 seconds. With the 15Mbps plan on Verizon, you maintain maximum throughput. Verizon uses a fiber technology known as BPON, which shares 622Mbps downstream and 155Mbps upstream between a maximum of 32 customers in your nearby area. Verizon just announced that they are upgrading to GPON, which will increase bandwidth from 622Mbps to 2.4Gbps, shared between 32-64 customers. In contrast, Comcast has about 40Mbps available per node, shared by 12-24 people, depending on your area.

Thank-you very much for that wonderful post.

I was told that Verizon has the new distribution boxes for condos/apartments. I am talking with out Apartment manager to find out if there is anything else I can do to expedite FiOS...

I just got a mailing that FIOS is available in my area (Massapequa, NY - Not Massapequa Park, which is the next town over). I gave them a call, and I learned that they don't carry the RSNs here in HD - SNY, YES, FSNY, & MSG. In fact, they don't carry FSNY or MSG at all. Cablevision owns them and is playing hardball. I told them that I wouldn't even consider switching without all of the RSNs in HD. Its the only reason I have Cable! Pricing seems to be similar, if not a little less for FIOS.
Well, they came knocking on my door the other day. I was promised that Yes-HD and SNY-HD are imminent and FSNY & MSG (HD & SD) will be here in the Fall, so I signed up. I got the phone number of the guy who promised me, so I'll raise a stink if they don't come through. The first month is basically free, so I'll give it a shot. Installation Friday.

Well, they came knocking on my door the other day. I was promised that Yes-HD and SNY-HD are imminent and FSNY & MSG (HD & SD) will be here in the Fall, so I signed up. I got the phone number of the guy who promised me, so I'll raise a stink if they don't come through. The first month is basically free, so I'll give it a shot. Installation Friday.


Ken, FANTASTIC news! I've heard the same thing, but it's nice to hear it from another source. Once we get these in HD, I can pull the plug entirely on D* and Cablevision. It's just a great system!

Damn, I wonder how long it is going to take to get it into these aprtment buildings in Clarendon/Arlington VA? I've heard all the single family homes have them in the area. Anyone live near Clarendon or Arlington here?

I am curious what area in NYC is Fios available? Have they reached out to any of the borroughs yet?

It's available in parts of L.I., but I don't think it's available in the 5 boroughs yet.

It's available in parts of L.I., but I don't think it's available in the 5 boroughs yet.

Staten Island and parts of Queens can get FIOS. If you live in an apt/condo/co-op building, it may be a while before FIOS is available even if deployed in your town/area. TV service is not available in the boroughs though, where deployed.

Ken, FANTASTIC news! I've heard the same thing, but it's nice to hear it from another source. Once we get these in HD, I can pull the plug entirely on D* and Cablevision. It's just a great system!
Well, apparently the door-to-door guy was full of sh*t. I had the system installed Friday. The installation went pretty smoothly. I had everything prewired, but the installer insisted on replacing the connections on each cable, which I had no problem with. The picture is outstanding. I'm holding off on the DVR for now, but I'll probably get it next month if I ditch D*.

Back to the salesmen. He didn't even work for Verizon, so he didn't know d*ck. There is no SNY-HD or YES-HD on the fiber. I called Verizon and they said that they're getting a lot of complaints that the door-to-door guys (who are subcontracted) are promising things Verizon doesn't have. They were able to confirm that FSNY and MSG are coming "later in 2006" but couldn't positively say that HD was part of the deal. One waoman said she definitely thoughts so, but another hadn't heard anything. We'll see. I had my account notated that I was pissed for being mislead and I'll follow-up after my first bill. I'm most likely going to keep it, but I'll raise a stink anyway. I can't wait to get Cablevision out of my house.

Well, they came knocking on my door the other day. I was promised that Yes-HD and SNY-HD are imminent and FSNY & MSG (HD & SD) will be here in the Fall, so I signed up. I got the phone number of the guy who promised me, so I'll raise a stink if they don't come through. The first month is basically free, so I'll give it a shot. Installation Friday.

Actually, YES and SNY ARE already available on FIOS in Long Island, in fact YES-HD is ALSO already available. If you google FIOS TV - you will get to the website, you can then find the tabs that will allow you to see the entire channel line-up for the New York area. It does NOT yet show YES-HD, but it has in fact been added already.

I also found out TODAY that my town is NOW able to get FIOS, I have asked them to put together a 'proposal' for me - as I already have Verizon DSL, and have 3 incoming phone lines with Verizon. They have given me the info that ALL of their HD offerings are FULL-REZZ, so I will entertain a changeover.

I can upgrade my Verizon DSL (currently 3mps) to Verizon FIOS internet (10mps) and it will actually be cheaper, I will get $5 a month off of the FIOS TV charges, but they have to review my phone usage in order to come up with the best solutions for that also.

Verizon is currently diggin up the earth in and around my street and laying down the fiber optic line/cable, how long will it take for them to go live? 1 month or 2? Any1 have any idea? God, let's hope it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooon. I can't take this Comcast/TWC anymore tooooooooooooooooo much compression on the HD channels and audio dropouts galore, im so thru with this mediocre service.

Verizon is currently diggin up the earth in and around my street and laying down the fiber optic line/cable, how long will it take for them to go live? 1 month or 2? Any1 have any idea? God, let's hope it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooon.

6+ months for internet and 6-12 months after that for TV. That is generally what I have been seeing posted around the net.

I live in Dayton NJ.Does anyone in the area have FIOS for the Internet or TV? How do you like it. I cant wait until it is available in my area. Do they have packages for Internet and TV? Thanks for the info.

Well, apparently the door-to-door guy was full of sh*t. I had the system installed Friday. The installation went pretty smoothly. I had everything prewired, but the installer insisted on replacing the connections on each cable, which I had no problem with. The picture is outstanding. I'm holding off on the DVR for now, but I'll probably get it next month if I ditch D*.

Back to the salesmen. He didn't even work for Verizon, so he didn't know d*ck. There is no SNY-HD or YES-HD on the fiber. I called Verizon and they said that they're getting a lot of complaints that the door-to-door guys (who are subcontracted) are promising things Verizon doesn't have. They were able to confirm that FSNY and MSG are coming "later in 2006" but couldn't positively say that HD was part of the deal. One waoman said she definitely thoughts so, but another hadn't heard anything. We'll see. I had my account notated that I was pissed for being mislead and I'll follow-up after my first bill. I'm most likely going to keep it, but I'll raise a stink anyway. I can't wait to get Cablevision out of my house.

Ken, I kicked D* out of the house on Saturday and kept a minimum Cablevision package for YES HD. Once FIOS gets that (and I believe the pressure is on them to get this soon), I'll dump Cablevision too. I'm really in love with this service in general. The PQ is just knockout!

Actually, YES and SNY ARE already available on FIOS in Long Island, in fact YES-HD is ALSO already available. If you google FIOS TV - you will get to the website, you can then find the tabs that will allow you to see the entire channel line-up for the New York area. It does NOT yet show YES-HD, but it has in fact been added already.



Whoa whoa! ScoBuck, where did you hear this? As of this past weekend there was no YES HD. It shows in the channel guide, but those channels are definitely SD. Do you have a channel number? If it's not in the 800s, it's not HD.

correct me if i'm wrong but YES-HD isn't really a full-time HD ch-right? when i lived in NYC i would get Yankees games on D* ch 94 but i think those were the only YES- HD broadcasts. sorta like MASN being dark when the Nats aren't playing(tho that's starting to change). in other words it's possible the YES ch in the 800's mirrors the YES-SD feed until a game in HD lights up.


Jim

I have FIOS internet but no FIOS TV yet.

I have one 23" set where I have a LCD hanging from the wall, no wires, and no room for a STB. I may replace this TV with one that accepts Cable Card, but I want to be sure and buy one that is going to work with CC. Any advice? It is in my kitchen, so I only have room for maybe up to 26" Most of the ones I have seen are the bigger plasma sets.

Thanks. Any help would be appreciated.

I have FIOS internet but no FIOS TV yet.

I have one 23" set where I have a LCD hanging from the wall, no wires, and no room for a STB. I may replace this TV with one that accepts Cable Card, but I want to be sure and buy one that is going to work with CC. Any advice? It is in my kitchen, so I only have room for maybe up to 26" Most of the ones I have seen are the bigger plasma sets.

Thanks. Any help would be appreciated.
That's gonna be tough since as you noted very few if any TVs in that range come with CC. I'd wait until the 2009 transition and watch the FIOS analogs till then. By then hopefully there'll be a few more choices and the use of CC by cable cos will be sorted out.

correct me if i'm wrong but YES-HD isn't really a full-time HD ch-right? when i lived in NYC i would get Yankees games on D* ch 94 but i think those were the only YES- HD broadcasts. sorta like MASN being dark when the Nats aren't playing(tho that's starting to change). in other words it's possible the YES ch in the 800's mirrors the YES-SD feed until a game in HD lights up.


Jim

Jim, I wish that were the case. But as an example, the last game on YES HD was nowhere to be found on FIOS. I've even gone ahead in the programming guide to the next home games at the Stadium where you know YES HD would have the game. There's no listing of the games other than the SD version of YES. Some could easily get confused since when you go to the "HD" listing, the Yankee games show up, but on channels that are never HD (nothing in the 800s).

I'm hoping this will change soon.

If you have FiOS DVR service, please run the test(s) linked in the below thread and report your results:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8162536&&#post8162536

Trying to gather data for Verizon.

is the FIOS TV signal a digital or analog signal ? I've heard that it is analog and was wondering if their equipment will have HDMI outputs?

is the FIOS TV signal a digital or analog signal ? I've heard that it is analog and was wondering if their equipment will have HDMI outputs?
Channels 1-50 or so are the analog local broadcast stations. Everything else is digital.

The HDTV set-top box and DVR used by Verizon both have HDMI outputs.

Channels 1-50 or so are the analog local broadcast stations. Everything else is digital.

Those same 50 channels (in VA about 20 actually have something on them) are also available in digital form.

Ken: I did try turning the 4:3 off...No luck...had to go back to Brighthouse Digital Cable...Which works great, but I miss the superior channel lineup of FIOS.

BT: I am in Tampa, FL. I had techs from Verizon here for a total of 18+ hours. Even someone flew in from Motorola HQ. He hooked up his own HD and took video clips from my feed. Everyone from Verizon confirmed there was a problem, but no one knew what to do. They said there are many problems network wide with Samsung TV's, but I also have 2 Sharps.

I am dying to go back to FIOS. I gave the regional manager my # and told him to call me if they ever get a grip on this.

It sucks because I am in the minority, but that doesnt mean it isnt an issue.

Someone also posted about watching a concert or something on HD on FIOS. I never, ever had any issue with the HD on FIOS. It looked awesome. No better than the BHN I have now however. It was the SD that was subpar. And as much as I like to be an HD snob, there is a lot of SD programming the family still watches.

Thanks for all the input..
MM

I also see a lot of people here comparing FIOS to Satellite. I have always felt tham my BHN digital calbe was superior to any satellite TV I have watched. Anyone switching to FIOS from digital cable noticing such major gains? I thought HD was identicial for both services, SD better on digital cable. I liked FIOS however for the price and channel selection. Ultimately BHN won out because of my pixelation issues.

M

I also see a lot of people here comparing FIOS to Satellite. I have always felt tham [my BHN digital calbe was superior to any satellite TV I have watched. Anyone switching to FIOS from digital cable noticing such major gains? I thought HD was identicial for both services, SD better on digital cable.
That depends on your other cable network. Certain cable providers use extra compression on their HD channels (stat mux) in order to fit more on their system, much like DirecTV. One such offender is COX.

Note I am not aware of any cable network that uses as much extra compression as DirecTV, so you could still expect HDTV on such cable providers to look better than Dish/DirecTV -- you just don't get 100% of the original quality.

Comcast claims to passthrough its HDTV channels unmodified in most markets, so I don't think most would see much improvement in HD quality switching from that provider. SD is a different story. Many of the most popular cable channels on Comcast (and other cable providers) are in the 1-99 analog tier, and suffer from PQ issues inherent to analog transmission. On FiOS, all those cable channels are delivered in digital at decent bitrates (varies somewhat by FiOS system). In many areas, Verizon allocates far more bandwidth to its SD channels than DirecTV (hence the superior PQ to satellite) and much of the cable competition.

Summary

FiOS uses digital for every cable channel, unlike most cable providers who use channels 1-99 to deliver many cable channels in analog format.

FiOS allocates more bandwidth to its digital channels than the competition; each SD channel has far more bandwidth than it does on DirecTV.

FiOS passes HD through unmodified, like most Comcast affiliates -- better PQ than cable companies that use extra compression on their HD channels.

Just got FIOS TV hooked up on Monday here in Plano, TX. Have had FIOS internet for about 6 months, had been calling them every 2 weeks to get TV. Currently have Directv with the SD directivo.

Moto HD-DVR 6416 in the living room hooked up to my 65" Mits 65-313 plus whatever the SD model is hooked up to my old 32" magnabox in the bedroom.

The Good:
1) Install was a snap (already had internet FIOS, so hard work done) - or so I thought
2) The moto SD box in the bedroom gives an awesome picture, much better than the samsung directv SD receiver
3) HD looks awesome (even on component cables, very nice!!!)
4) Verizon's phone support (while long hold times) was good, and their follow up support (2nd day tech visit) was good

The Bad:
1) SD channels on HD-DVR/HDTV box suck. Bad, bad artifacting and video noise.
2) Original install was subcontracted and (albeit being a nice guy) didn't check a lot of things like pre-existing cabling and splitter hardware, etc. Got a picture on the TV and was out the door.
3) Remote control is junk. Cheap feeling and you have to have strategic aim straight to box to work. Too many small similar buttons. (vs a well laid out directivo remote that works pointed in the opposite direction)

Well I get it installed and basically point the guy to the FIOS box and my old coax cable feeds. He gets the outside set up while I work on the boxes inside. I wish he'd hung around longer after the picture came on because my programming was screwed up from my order (no hd channels, but I got the HD DVR, duh). Also becomes blatantly apparent that the SD channels (pick one! ESPN, Com Central, TBS, Spike, etc etc) all look MUCH MUCH worse than they did coming off my SD directivo. While Tivo (with composite hookups) tended to "squash" the details of the picture making it look very soft, it least it looks even and is acceptable. The SD channels (outputting at 1080i) on the Moto 6416 on my Mits HDTV look downright awful with all the artifacts and screen noise. I tied every 4:3 mode and they all look awful. HDTV however looks spectacular. Tv in bedroom looks good doing only sd.... must be the moto 6416, bad box or something. I call Verizon. 2-1/2 hours later the tech has force fed my 6416 updates of some kind (kept turning itself off then back on) and after 3 or 4 he says "What's it look like now?" Well, like crap says I. Tech is dispatched. Next day (today) tech comes out takes one look at espn and say "that is awful", and does all kinds of electrical tests on the coax wiring. This guy went all out, redid every connector, replaced every splitter, even ran a straight line to the FIOS box bypassing every splitter... and still it looks the same. He replaces the box (6416) with a new one from his truck. Same difference. I show him directivo compared evenly to TBS/espn/spike and he shakes his head. He gives up and leaves (he replaced everything he possibly could, I have no problems with him, he worked his butt off for hours).

So here I am. My personal thinking is that the 6416 can't output the SD channels at 1080i or 480p without the massive artifacting, it desperately needs some kind of noise filtering to be involved. Design flaw or something. Think about watching a badly encoded divx/mpeg on the computer and blowing it full screen with all the artifacts and ghosting, it's miserable at times.

My buddy jusy got a Dish HD-DVR and it pipes the SD channels out at 1080i on his set pretty sweet. I was hoping that would be my experience...

I tried to hook up composite video from the 6416 output into the mix so maybe I could downrez to a component video on SD channels (it looks "better" because it filters out the high detail noise very apparent in 1080i, know this because we tried straight composite hookup) but the thing won't output 1080 and composite at the same time. Doh.


People, I don't know what to do. This was free hookup and might actually be cheaper than my directv bill..... but if SD looks like this.... I mean HD looks fantastic but there's only 10 or so HD channels... lots of SD out there to deal with. I would like to try the HD directivo but I don't want to pay the $300 or so for the box to find out it's no better. Right now I still have both hooked up, but one has to go. And it could be FIOS. This totally sucks, I was looking forward to watching some football in HD, finally!

FiOS uses digital for every cable channel, unlike most cable providers who use channels 1-99 to deliver many cable channels in analog format.


Just a side note, during all my FIOS testing today we hooked a coax straight from the FIOS box outside to my tv... no STB's. The bottom 20 or so channels are piped analog (all local channels). They look terrible (like analog cable) but it does work. I'm not sure what benefit this provides, I guess if you didn't want to spend the $3 a month for the SDTV converter box for the kids bedroom or something.

I had no idea this was the case as I was led to believe it was 100% digital. OK, so it's only 97% digital I guess.

So here I am. My personal thinking is that the 6416 can't output the SD channels at 1080i or 480p without the massive artifacting, it desperately needs some kind of noise filtering to be involved. Design flaw or something. Think about watching a badly encoded divx/mpeg on the computer and blowing it full screen with all the artifacts and ghosting, it's miserable at times.



Burticus, it sounds like it must be something within the local FIOS system in your area. I can't tell you how incredible the SD looks on FIOS via the 6416 (output at 1080i) in my area! Comparing it to the same channels on D* almost make you laugh, the difference is that great. I see no artifacts, not a hint of ghosting, just a sharp, clear, color-neutral picture. It's got to be something in the system since the box is 'clearly' capable of an excellent SD picture.

I'm also confused about your 10 HD channels. I've got something like 23 HD channels here in N.Y. I subscribed to anything HD, including all the movie channels.

I'm not sure why he gets 10 either. He should be getting 25+ according to the FiOS website, which has its channels listed for the North Dallas Area, which Plano is in.

Hi Guys!

I just found this forum and it appears there are some very informed people here!

I have had DTV ever since it was available in FL (about 10 yrs or so now). I'm happy with the PQ and HD quality.

I've had FIOS internet for about 4 months now and LOVE IT compared to Brighthouse's RR I used to have.

Since FIOS TV is now available in my area and I've had two of my Hughes HD receivers die in in the past year, I'm considering the switch.

My question is: Does the HD PVR provide for HDMI connections? My DTV HD PVR has HDMI and I find this a very convenient way to connect to the Display. I realize PQ is probably close compared to component, but I'm for less wires anytime!!

Thanks in advance,

Lance

Burticus:

Did you try swapping the SD STB in the bedroom with the 6416 to see how good/bad the SD looks through a dedicated SD box? If it is acceptable it may be feasible for you to get Verizon to let you have a spare SD STB for the theater, gratis, which you could hook up in parallel so to speak. You won't get DVR for SD of course, but it may be a stopgap until Verizon get to the bottom of the problem.

My question is: Does the HD PVR provide for HDMI connections? My DTV HD PVR has HDMI and I find this a very convenient way to connect to the Display. I realize PQ is probably close compared to component, but I'm for less wires anytime!!


Yes both HD STBs that VZ offer (DVR and NonDVR) have an HDMI output.

Just a side note, during all my FIOS testing today we hooked a coax straight from the FIOS box outside to my tv... no STB's. The bottom 20 or so channels are piped analog (all local channels). They look terrible (like analog cable) but it does work.
Channel numbers 1 through ~50 (which amounts to 15-25 channels depending on area) are the analog versions of the local broadcast and public interest stations, just like you would get on a traditional cable system. These are the only channels you get by connecting the coax feed directly up to an old TV. I've removed these analog channels from my guide.

[Yes, the STB and DVR used by FiOS let yous delete channels you don't want/watch from the guide. Using channel up/down will skip the channels you have deleted from the guide. The box also lets you define a second favorites guide, accessed by a button on the remote, much like the receivers from Dish Network.]

All of the "cable" channels like Fox News, CNN, Sci Fi, TBS, etc are in digital. Verizon also carries digital (HDTV where available) versions of all the major broadcast networks, including ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS, UPN, and WB.

Burticus -

There has to be something wrong at the CO or the wiring at your location. I am at Alma and Spring Creek and I do not have any of the picture quality issues that you are experiencing. I am using the 6416 thru a Zektor switch to my Mits 65869. I am not using HDMI but I do have the firewire hooked up too.

I can confirm that channels below 50 are analog.

I am sorry that you are having issues but if you can tough it out the SD picture quality is much better than what I was getting via Comcast. I do not notice too much different in the HD quality except that so far the HD picture has never pixilated which it did all the time with Comcast.

Hope this helps.
Laters,
Jeff

Just a side note, during all my FIOS testing today we hooked a coax straight from the FIOS box outside to my tv... no STB's. The bottom 20 or so channels are piped analog (all local channels). They look terrible (like analog cable) but it does work. I'm not sure what benefit this provides, I guess if you didn't want to spend the $3 a month for the SDTV converter box for the kids bedroom or something.

I had no idea this was the case as I was led to believe it was 100% digital. OK, so it's only 97% digital I guess.
It's not $3/mo extra - it's more like $32 extra. There's a basic tier to FIOS (analogs only) for $12.95 - this is to match the basic cable that many cable co offer. With such a service you need no STB at all and you'd hook up just like you did - directly to the coax. The tier that almost everyone gets is the expanded (or whatever name they use these days) tier which includes all of these analogs plus most of the digitals. That service is 39.95 + 4.95 for the STB. In all likelihood the analogs will only live till 2009 when an STB (or CC) will be required for any channel of FIOS - although even that might change to have some combo of clear QAM channels (no STB needed if your TV has QAM tuner) and some scrambled (STB required).

BTW, all those analogs other cable cos offer are slowly fading away also.

Note there is no cost for the first STB if you commit to a year of service.

Burticus,

I just had FIOS installed in Plano. At Coit & Park area and all SD channels look great and HDTV is awesome. I have one TV connected without set top box and get channels 1-49 that look great. You might check the wiring in the house. Did the installer test the signal? My installer had some equipment that he checked the signal at the TV and the NIM.

IN my town apple valley CA. the sd channels look much better on fios than on directv when i first saw TBS i thought it was an HD channel thats how good it looked! there has to be something wrong with your system. if i was you i'd have the tech come to my house and read this thread so he could see how good everybody says there fios picture is.

Just a side note, during all my FIOS testing today we hooked a coax straight from the FIOS box outside to my tv... no STB's. The bottom 20 or so channels are piped analog (all local channels). They look terrible (like analog cable) but it does work. I'm not sure what benefit this provides, I guess if you didn't want to spend the $3 a month for the SDTV converter box for the kids bedroom or something.

I had no idea this was the case as I was led to believe it was 100% digital. OK, so it's only 97% digital I guess.
If the SD looks fine on the STB then it is more likely that you have a less-than-stellar coax connection to your DVR. Try the DVR where the STB is currently connected and see if you see that same problem. If you do, then you likely have a DVR with an issue.

Note that like others here I am seeing beautiful SD on the DVR. Also note that this wasn't the case when I was first installed. I guess they were working out a kink somewhere in the system.

Lots of replies! Cool.

I had unexpected visitors this morning.... Verizon sent 3 techs out to my house and I didn't even know they were coming. I assume the tech that was out on Tuesday told his boss about my issue. Surprise!

They replaced another splitter and checked the levels of signal in the wiring (again) but moved something around. They were much happier about the signal strength and worked very quickly. The picture is better, but I would only upgrade the overall SD picture quality from "sucks" to "mediocre". The blocking went away, but there are still little artifacts... almost like sparkling shadows around anything that moves. The head tech says "that's as good as it gets until we upgrade to mpeg-4, the problem is with the mpeg-2 compression on the SD channels". Uh-huh. I wish I could take a picture of it but my dig camera blows. I will probably just learn to live with it.

Hooking the 6416 up via composite input pretty much eliminated this problem... which doesn't surprise me much since it cuts the video quality in half and fuzz'es everything down. Doing this closely resembled directivo picture. Like I said earlier I tried using both composite video and component but it won't let you do both.

I thought about using 2 tuners for a bit but it just seems stupid.

To "eq_shadimar" and others in Plano - what kind of TVs do you have? I'm wondering if you have some kind of noise filtering / signal processor built into the TV, my mits does not on the 1080 input (but does on the 480 input. What a waste) I am at 15th and Custer.

When I say "10 channels" I was generalizing but it's not much more than that. 810-823 + 832-834 (I got the movie package but not hbo/max) + the locals. If you count the locals I guess that brings it up to 25, but the locals are only occasionally HD and just broadcast SD over HD the rest of the time which feels like cheating to me.

So far the only channels I've been impressed with are ESPN HD + ESPN 2 HD, HD net + movies, discovery HD and MTV HD (MTV HD is pretty cool, they actually play music!) I have not seen anything worth much on wealth, ngc, universal, and fsn just shows a test pattern.

But then again I've had this all of 3 days now so I'm sure there is more to see.

If the SD looks fine on the STB then it is more likely that you have a less-than-stellar coax connection to your DVR. Try the DVR where the STB is currently connected and see if you see that same problem. If you do, then you likely have a DVR with an issue.

Note that like others here I am seeing beautiful SD on the DVR. Also note that this wasn't the case when I was first installed. I guess they were working out a kink somewhere in the system.

My guy on tuesday ran a freshly made rg-6 coax straight from the ONT to the 6416. Same problem. I agree that there is probably something going on at the CO, or everyone else just has better TV's than mine... : ) Funny, tuesday's tech asked if I had another HDTV we could hook up to test. Ah, no, sorry. Let me just run to Best Buy and buy a 42" HD plasma to test with.... not.

Today I was trying to prove a point so split screen'd the directivo and the 6416 on the same SD channel (espn was showing some special on the Pats superbowl game today). In split screen, the FIOS picture just whooped the directivo's butt. But it was scrunched up! You couldn't see the noise because the pic was smaller. I switched back to fullscreen and there it is again. Doh!

Burticus -

I have a Mits WS-65869. The specs can be found here on my web site (http://www.madtomstudios.com/HomeTheater/65869_specs.htm). It has a born on date of Feb 2001 (boy the TV/projector I could get today with the $$ I paid for this hehe). I am using the 1080i component input. I also use the firewire input which looks great too but no guide information.

Hang in there!

Laters,
Jeff

Burticus

I agree with everything you say, especially...


...
The Bad:
1) SD channels on HD-DVR/HDTV box suck. Bad, bad artifacting and video noise.
...

I have had FiOS TV for over 3 months and none of the techs are able to fix it. I have had 2 QIP6416 boxes, new fiber drop, even had the ONT upgraded to the new slim one. I have excellent light levels at the ONT and an excellent signal at the box. The tech agrees with me there is a problem. The last I heard from the tech is that I should buy a new(er) TV. Mine is only 4 months old. If FiOS only works with certain TVs Verizon needs to be up front with it before I get stuck in a 1 year contract at $70+/month.

Burticus

I agree with everything you say, especially...



I have had FiOS TV for over 3 months and none of the techs are able to fix it. I have had 2 QIP6416 boxes, new fiber drop, even had the ONT upgraded to the new slim one. I have excellent light levels at the ONT and an excellent signal at the box. The tech agrees with me there is a problem. The last I heard from the tech is that I should buy a new(er) TV. Mine is only 4 months old. If FiOS only works with certain TVs Verizon needs to be up front with it before I get stuck in a 1 year contract at $70+/month.

Have you tried FIOS with a reqular non-DVR set-top-box?
It could be doing real time MPEG encoding at a very low bit rate.
I had that problem with digital cable and analog channels with a Motorola 6412 box.

- Rich

Screenshots of the FiOS DVR interface (broadband only) (http://mysite.verizon.net/fiosdvr/)

Screenshots of the FiOS DVR interface (broadband only) (http://mysite.verizon.net/fiosdvr/)

Awesome pictures! I want your camera!

Inspired by those awesome pictures of the DVR guide I took some pictures of my lousy sd picture with my lousy digital camera. The lousy pictures are attached. However, the lousiness pinpoints exactly what I was talking about... the "ghosts" that surround anything that move.

I know the resolution and quality of these shots are subpar, but focus on the shimmery outlines of the players and that is exactly what I see on my tv... albeit a bit more in focus. Try to zoom in, see the noise or graphic junk around the players? That is not JPG.... that is my fios!

I wish I had a better camera.

Burticus, those pix are really tough to see. I'm more struck by how dark and 'green' the pix look than anything else. I can see some ghosting though and I personally don't see this on my setup. It's got to be an issue in your CO. As long as you don't get this with every other source you input, then you can safely rule out your TV....as long as you've tried other inputs on that same source. But I do recall you said that HD was fine, so I think that really points to an issue at the CO.

burticus,

I take it you have tried dropping the sharpness control down to its lowest level or close to it? The sharpness control adds noise to picture details and outlines to make them appear more distinct, and this can create the halos you describe when it is applied excessively.

I have the same problem as burticus. HD is great, SD is so-so. Some SD channels look pretty good, others fairly bad. :confused:

I've noticed some of the worst channels in the 210-220 range. Nick, Cartoon Network, etc... Unfortunately, all the fairly bad channels are not limited to this range. There are other channels just as bad (can't name them offhand).

This issue has to be upstream from my house. Think about it. All channels above the 50 or so analog channels come into the ONT as digital signals. They also exit the ONT as digital signals. That's 1's and 0's last time I looked. If you see "noise" on your TV screen, the problem is either in the STB (and we know others have stellar SD PQ with the same STB), in the cableing to the TV (mine are HDMI cables so I don't think this is the problem), in the TV itself (doubtful, I have a Sony 23" LCD HDTV and a Toshiba 30" tube HDTV), or at the source.

Can somebody please explain to me what a "CO" is?

Do different CO's use different sources? This could explain why some people have stellar SD PQ while others don't.

Is it possible that the CO's have multiple analog sources for some of the channels delivered as digital? Is it possible they use coax cables to connect their analog sources to the A-to-D converters they are using prior to placing it on the fiber? is it also possible that some of these coax cables may be bad or have bad connectors? This could explain why some SD looks pretty darn good and other SD channels look not so good.

CO = Central Office. Telephone and data transmission companies use the term for the location that all of their circuits terminate. It also houses all the switching equipment. Depending on the size of your town there is noramlly at least one and sometimes several Central Offices.

Burticus - Are you having the Moto box upscale the image to 1080i for you? My TV does not have a very good line doubler and causes some of the issues that you are talking about. Also is your TV calibrated? Once again just to say that the SD video on my TV looks just as good as a DVD. I acutally had a touch up calibration done today and the calibrator was very impressed with the picture. He uses D* and said quote "wow I have forgotten what HD looks like" so there is an indication of the quality I am getting from the box at my house. We went through all the other input and settings and he pointed out the croma delay on the 480i signal.

Laters,
Jeff

To check the output mode of your Motorola HDTV STB/DVR, turn the box off and then immediately press the Menu button on the remote.

Have you tried FIOS with a reqular non-DVR set-top-box?
It could be doing real time MPEG encoding at a very low bit rate.
I had that problem with digital cable and analog channels with a Motorola 6412 box.

- Rich

I have tried it with a 2500 box. A little better but still DirecTV SD much better. I rule out the box because I ran the coax directy into the TV with a QAM tunner and still the same bad SD quality (at least on the lower 50 channels, need CC for others). I figure it is Verizons digital compresion/conversion they are doing.

I figure it is Verizons digital compresion/conversion they are doing.

Not likely unless Verizon uses different 'compression/conversion' schemes in different parts of the country. The vast majority of people report far better SD with Verizon than D*. The difference in my area between SD on D* and FIOS is literally day & night....not even in the same ballpark.

Is everyone that has these FiOS PQ problems in Murrieta, CA?

I agree with Burticus. On my SD local channels especially. When watching a show with a lot of movement, my SD pic is worse than when I used my SD Directivo. If the picture is motionless it is comparable with Directivo. Another problem I notice is that I have some faint diaganol lines every once in a while. This is only noticed in SD mode and is not always happening. I do not believe this is a problem with the broadcast because I can see these lines on the MENU. I never see these lines in HD though. Not sure if I need a new connector or what, but since it is not 100% of the time I am thinking it is possibly something else. I did turn my sharpness to 0 on my Mit WD52525. Still notice the lines and worse PQ than Directv. Is this because FIOS is analog on the locals and Directv is digital? I watch sd in 480I. I can not tell a difference when switching it to 480P. The reason I do not watch it in 1080i is because the bars bother me.

I live in Virginia and I have SD PQ issues (see above).

I watch sd in 480I. I can not tell a difference when switching it to 480P. The reason I do not watch it in 1080i is because the bars bother me.

Do you have your TV stretch the 480i signal to fit your TV (I assume you have a widescreen tv)? If so you can have the Motorola box stretch the SD picture to fill the entire TV while upscaling to 1080i. It is one of the 4:3 override modes. Just a thought.

Laters,
Jeff

I believe this is best posted in the hardware thread, but if it belongs elsewhere my apologies in advance. This is a FIOS relevant question preceded by background on my current viewing situation. Anyhow, here we go:

I am a Tampa, FL Brighthouse cable customer with a SA8300 HD DVR hooked up to my HP MD6580n HDTV. When I'm watching SD Sci-Fi network shows such as Stargate SG-1 or Battlestar Galactica which are 4:3 letterboxed, I can press the # key to change the aspect mode as output by the SA8300 to Zoom 1 which then fills the entire screen with little to no cropping of the picture (tested by freezing the frame and switching back and forth between normal and Zoom 1). This is what I would expect as the frame inside the letterboxed 4:3 image is supposed to be 1.78:1, or full 16:9 on the 6580n. There are definite PQ issues watching zoomed analog, but it's not too terrible.

Unfortunately, if I use the aspect controls on the TV itself and switch to zoom mode, the picture is resized to fit perfectly top to bottom, but with 4" wide black bars on the left/right sides (effective stretching the image vertically to an aspect ratio of 1.5:1 instead of 1.78:1). Not a problem since I've been using the SA8300's zoom.

Here's the question: If I switch to FIOS TV, is the 6416 DVR capable of outputting 4:3 SD programming which is letterboxed so that it will properly fill my display at the correct 1.78:1 aspect? I know the 6416 has different zoom output modes, but based on what I've read on the forums, I cannot tell if the 6416 zoom will behave correctly like the SA8300, or if it will do some sort of weird zoom like the MD6580n's built in zoom function.

Thanks in advance,

-db

dburns,

Unfortunately, no Motorola box anywhere (afaik) has that zoom feature enabled. There is a button on the remote for it, but the function hasn't been implemented yet.

That is the one feature I miss from the SA8300HD. I suppose it doesn't matter if your TV has a built-in zoom function, as many newer models do, but my old Samsung DLP doesn't support that feature when HDMI is used.

eq_shadimar,

Maybe I am not doing it right. I turn off the DVR and hit menu and I have tried the overide mode from 480I, 480P and 1080i. The 480I and 480P, I can't tell a difference in. When I set it to 1080i, then I have black bars on the left and right which I do not like and my tv will not stretch the 1080i full screen. Yes I have a 52 inch Mitsu widescreen. Is there another way for the 1080i to stretch 4:3 to full screen on the Motorola box?

Shaggy, I may be wrong, but I think when you select 1080i to always be output, you can't get any stretch on 4:3. Most STBs work that way including D* STBs. as well as the cable box my local cable co. uses. In fact there are very few HDTVs that are able to stretch a 4:3 1080i broadcast. You could use the 'native' setting on the Motorola box and then perhaps your Mits could stretch the 480i 4:3 broadcasts.

shaggy,

After you turn off the DVR and press menu, there should be four options under 4:3 override -- off, 480i, 480p, and stretch. This determines how SD channels are output to your TV. Off outputs SD channels with bars at 720p or 1080i; 480i outputs SD channels as 480i; 480p outputs SD channels as 480; and stretch stretches them with no bars for output at 720p or 1080i, depending on what you chose for HD.

The Scientific Atlanta boxes are the only models, afaik, with the built-in zoom feature that works in 720/1080i mode. No Motorola boxes currently offer this feature.

But a quirk with the SA boxes in my area, when using the 1080i stretch, is that they ALSO stretch 16:9 HD programming. They're not smart enough to know when the 1080i is really 4:3 and when it's really 16:9. For that reason I never used that feature...the stretch was also pretty bad to begin with.

dburns,

Unfortunately, no Motorola box anywhere (afaik) has that zoom feature enabled. There is a button on the remote for it, but the function hasn't been implemented yet.

That is the one feature I miss from the SA8300HD. I suppose it doesn't matter if your TV has a built-in zoom function, as many newer models do, but my old Samsung DLP doesn't support that feature when HDMI is used.

Thanks - somehow I missed that the Motorola zoom was disabled.

-db

[QUOTE=rickypicky]I have the same problem as burticus. HD is great, SD is so-so. Some SD channels look pretty good, others fairly bad. :confused:

I've noticed some of the worst channels in the 210-220 range. Nick, Cartoon Network, etc... Unfortunately, all the fairly bad channels are not limited to this range. There are other channels just as bad (can't name them offhand).

I just got my install in northern Virginia and have the same problem. The HD picture quality is solid but SD is mixed and has some very poor looking channels. I wonder if this is a northern Virginia problem. Anyone else in northern Virginia experiencing inferior SD picture quality?

I have the same problem as burticus. HD is great, SD is so-so. Some SD channels look pretty good, others fairly bad. :confused:

I've noticed some of the worst channels in the 210-220 range. Nick, Cartoon Network, etc... Unfortunately, all the fairly bad channels are not limited to this range. There are other channels just as bad (can't name them offhand).

I just got my install in northern Virginia and have the same problem. The HD picture quality is solid but SD is mixed and has some very poor looking channels. I wonder if this is a northern Virginia problem. Anyone else in northern Virginia experiencing inferior SD picture quality?

Thanks hoopnoop. It's nice to know someone else in our area has noticed it. Some people (biker19 in McLean and billodom in Arlington) in our area report stellar SD PQ, while another (va_locksmith in Springfield) is having the same problem we are. I'll spend a bit more time tonight and try to come up with a more definitive list of good/bad channels. If we call Verizon to complain, we're more likely to be taken seriously if we're consistent telling them the channels we think are substandard.

Thanks hoopnoop. It's nice to know someone else in our area has noticed it. Some people (biker19 in McLean and billodom in Arlington) in our area report stellar SD PQ, while another (va_locksmith in Springfield) is having the same problem we are. I'll spend a bit more time tonight and try to come up with a more definitive list of good/bad channels. If we call Verizon to complain, we're more likely to be taken seriously if we're consistent telling them the channels we think are substandard.

Sounds good -- I'll check my channels against your list and see if they are similary lacking in picture quality.

Thanks hoopnoop. It's nice to know someone else in our area has noticed it. Some people (biker19 in McLean and billodom in Arlington) in our area report stellar SD PQ, while another (va_locksmith in Springfield) is having the same problem we are. I'll spend a bit more time tonight and try to come up with a more definitive list of good/bad channels. If we call Verizon to complain, we're more likely to be taken seriously if we're consistent telling them the channels we think are substandard.

I am in Murrieta, CA and have the same problem. I have had FiOS TV service for more than 3 months. I have had low light problems, now fixed with a new fiber drop and fiber switch. I am also on a second 6416 and second ONT. So, I now have excellent light levels at the ONT and good signal quality to the 6416. The tech agrees with me about the bad SD PQ and does not know what else to replace/fix. His last advise to me was to replace my 4 month old 50" DLP.

Multi Room DVR and Media Manager are out, Checkout site http://www22.verizon.com/content/FiosTV

If anyone gets it going please post your findings

Unfortunately no HD on these Media Managers.

I am in Murrieta, CA and have the same problem. I have had FiOS TV service for more than 3 months. I have had low light problems, now fixed with a new fiber drop and fiber switch. I am also on a second 6416 and second ONT. So, I now have excellent light levels at the ONT and good signal quality to the 6416. The tech agrees with me about the bad SD PQ and does not know what else to replace/fix. His last advise to me was to replace my 4 month old 50" DLP.

I'm quite sure there is nothing wrong with your DLP :rolleyes:

I have excellent HD PQ. I also have excellent PQ on some SD channels. On other SD channels the PQ is not very good, and on some, it's downright poor. It is my understanding that the signals going into the ONT are digital. The signals coming out of the ONT are digital as well. The digital to analog conversion occurs in the STB. Am I right so far? It is also my understanding that a corrupt digital signal used for video (MPEG 2/4) would look really, really bad. You could get frame freezing, really bad blocking, and in some cases, no picture at all. Am I still right?

I don't see this problem. On the channels in question, I see "noise", almost like noise I used to see from analog OTA signals. I also see some "fuzziness". I do see some blocking artifacts, but they are consistent (it looks like the picture is just a lower resolution). These are not the symptoms of a bad digital signal strength. These are the symptoms of either bad digital to analog conversion (at the STB), or a poor source. Since some of my SD channels look excellent, I think the problem is in the source. Maybe some of the sources my CO uses are either not very good, or the connection (between the source and wherever Verizon puts it on the fiber) isn't very good.

What do you think? Am I completely off-base here?

The pics are green because I was using a crappy camera at night with the lights off on a football game. My camera does very poorly in low light situations.

Sharpness is at zero.

Some channels are worse than others. Cartoon network is a mess. Espn is so/so.

It is either the way the box decodes the mpeg signal on the SD that could maybe, eventually be fixed with a firmware upgrade.... or it's the way they send the signals down the wire.

I guess I'll call them again but the last tech out said "that's as good as it gets". I missed a lot of work last week messing around with these guys, don't really want to do that again.

This kills me. The HD is SO good, watched some football yesterday and my jaw just hit the floor.

Yeah it would be nice if that 'zoom' button worked. I can use 1080-epand on the tv to get rid of the 4:3 black bars, but it expands too much and crops too much out (plus it looks like crap).

Thanks hoopnoop. It's nice to know someone else in our area has noticed it. Some people (biker19 in McLean and billodom in Arlington) in our area report stellar SD PQ, while another (va_locksmith in Springfield) is having the same problem we are. I'll spend a bit more time tonight and try to come up with a more definitive list of good/bad channels. If we call Verizon to complain, we're more likely to be taken seriously if we're consistent telling them the channels we think are substandard.
I wouldn't call them stellar but good. I do seem to remember the 210 range being a bit "less stellar" than others. It's all relative - compared to any OTA digital they were not quite as good. Actually, they were about the same as the analogs below 50. Now HD, that's another story. I have a feeling this may be TV dependant to a point - I only viewed them on CRT sets.

Different people watch different channels. On FiOS, some channels are clearly better than others in terms of PQ. When you don't tell others channels you're watching, you give them no frame of reference.

Thanks hoopnoop. It's nice to know someone else in our area has noticed it. Some people (biker19 in McLean and billodom in Arlington) in our area report stellar SD PQ, while another (va_locksmith in Springfield) is having the same problem we are. I'll spend a bit more time tonight and try to come up with a more definitive list of good/bad channels. If we call Verizon to complain, we're more likely to be taken seriously if we're consistent telling them the channels we think are substandard.

Chalk me up (McLean, VA) as having very good SD PQ.

--croorc

I'm quite sure there is nothing wrong with your DLP :rolleyes:

On the channels in question, I see "noise", almost like noise I used to see from analog OTA signals. I also see some "fuzziness". I do see some blocking artifacts, but they are consistent (it looks like the picture is just a lower resolution). These are not the symptoms of a bad digital signal strength. These are the symptoms of either bad digital to analog conversion (at the STB), or a poor source. Since some of my SD channels look excellent, I think the problem is in the source. Maybe some of the sources my CO uses are either not very good, or the connection (between the source and wherever Verizon puts it on the fiber) isn't very good.

What do you think? Am I completely off-base here?

I totally agree -- a number of my SD channels basically look similar to the analog counterparts that I had with Adelphia -- HGTV, CNN, etc. all look fuzzy and are lacking in the sharpness of some of the other channels (e.g., MTV Hits). I think it must from the source somewhere.

I totally agree -- a number of my SD channels basically look similar to the analog counterparts that I had with Adelphia -- HGTV, CNN, etc. all look fuzzy and are lacking in the sharpness of some of the other channels (e.g., MTV Hits). I think it must from the source somewhere.

Yup. Like I said a couple weeks back...The more and more households VZW hooks up, the more this issue is going to pop up. If you missed my previous post, VZW flew in a Motorola tech to my house to examine the issue. He hooked up a DV camera to the box and took some video clips to bring back to HQ. He told me there might be a fix, but not any time soon. Very discouraging. So at that point, I had to go back to digital cable and stop being a beta tester for FIOS TV. However, I still have the phone and internet and am thrilled.

M

I'm quite sure there is nothing wrong with your DLP :rolleyes:

I have excellent HD PQ. I also have excellent PQ on some SD channels. On other SD channels the PQ is not very good, and on some, it's downright poor. It is my understanding that the signals going into the ONT are digital. The signals coming out of the ONT are digital as well. The digital to analog conversion occurs in the STB. Am I right so far? It is also my understanding that a corrupt digital signal used for video (MPEG 2/4) would look really, really bad. You could get frame freezing, really bad blocking, and in some cases, no picture at all. Am I still right?

I don't see this problem. On the channels in question, I see "noise", almost like noise I used to see from analog OTA signals. I also see some "fuzziness". I do see some blocking artifacts, but they are consistent (it looks like the picture is just a lower resolution). These are not the symptoms of a bad digital signal strength. These are the symptoms of either bad digital to analog conversion (at the STB), or a poor source. Since some of my SD channels look excellent, I think the problem is in the source. Maybe some of the sources my CO uses are either not very good, or the connection (between the source and wherever Verizon puts it on the fiber) isn't very good.

What do you think? Am I completely off-base here?

The analog to digital conversion/compression I am talking about is happening at a Verizon central office. For channels above 50 they could be converted at one central location for all FiOS customers. For channels below 50, I would assume, they are being converted locally. Channels in the 800's are digital to begin with and are delivered to you as they are (as far as I understand without compression). My SD channels can look like a bad YouTube video. Great for stills but motion is terrible.

Yup. Like I said a couple weeks back...The more and more households VZW hooks up, the more this issue is going to pop up. If you missed my previous post, VZW flew in a Motorola tech to my house to examine the issue. He hooked up a DV camera to the box and took some video clips to bring back to HQ. He told me there might be a fix, but not any time soon. Very discouraging. So at that point, I had to go back to digital cable and stop being a beta tester for FIOS TV. However, I still have the phone and internet and am thrilled.

M

I must have missed that post earlier. I just looked at it.

Did the Motorola tech indicate where the problem was? Is it in the Motorola box? Is it at the source? Is it somewhere in between? Is it somewhere else?

I took a detailed look last night. Most of my SD channels are sub-par (with respect to DirectTV). D* is my only measuring stick, since I had them for over 8 years. I dropped them for Verizon purely for the reported PQ, both HD and SD.

Why is there such a SD PQ difference from area to area??? You would think if they (Verizon) look at the differences between areas with good SD PQ and the ones with not-so-good SD PQ, they could figure out what the heck is going on ! :rolleyes:

My apartment complex is right on the street where Verizon is currently putting in the fiber optic lines. There was actually a representative from Verizon supervising the subcontractor who was facilitating this endeavor. I went up and asked him when I could expect to have FiOS internet/TV in my apt complex. He said that our Apartment Owner[s] had not worked out a contract as of yet. If Verizon had a contract done he said we would be live in [3] months time. I don't think our apt mgr or the owner, for that matter, are aware of what's going on outside. Is their a phone number or contact name I could give my apt peeps in order to get this rolling. I want FiOS dagnabit, to hell with comcrap/TWC.

I must have missed that post earlier. I just looked at it.

Did the Motorola tech indicate where the problem was? Is it in the Motorola box? Is it at the source? Is it somewhere in between? Is it somewhere else?

I took a detailed look last night. Most of my SD channels are sub-par (with respect to DirectTV). D* is my only measuring stick, since I had them for over 8 years. I dropped them for Verizon purely for the reported PQ, both HD and SD.

Why is there such a SD PQ difference from area to area??? You would think if they (Verizon) look at the differences between areas with good SD PQ and the ones with not-so-good SD PQ, they could figure out what the heck is going on ! :rolleyes:

Ricky,

The motorola guy of course would not take responsibility, but was leaning towards the problem with the box. The reality is that this is an issue VZW has to deal with. They kept sending techs to my house who would put on an HD channel and say,"There is nothing wrong with your picture". We almost kicked a tech out of our house for his attitude.

A LOT of people are comparing FIOS to D*. Not many are comparing digital cable to FIOS. I can tell you that the HD from digital cable to FIOS is identical. And, for me at least, the SD was much, much better on digital cable.

At least those of us who are having this issue are having the SAME issue regardless of location.

Something tells me a lot of other people are having this issue but dont know it because they have either a smaller television, only watch the HD, or never watch the affected channels.
M

Mr. Maestro, let us know the affected channels and we'll report back. I do watch mostly HD and I'm watching on 50" and 42" HD plasmas. I'm sure these are large enough to see any of the issues. I've compared my SD (at least on channels we watch....never had the incentive to compare channels we don't watch) to the same channels on D*, and the FIOS channels were always much much better. Color on D* was terrible, with a green cast as well as a general smeary, soft quality. I last did this on the USA channel while watching The 4400. There was no comparison, with FIOS being markedly superior. But there may be channels we don't watch which aren't so good.

So let us know which channels to look at and we'll report back. Unfortunately I can no longer compare them with D*, since I've been so happy with FIOS I disconnected my D* service about 10 days ago.

Ken,

Was watching on a 56 DLP Samsung and a Dell projector DLP and 2 Sharp 26 inch HD LCD's (one via a motorola cable card).

I got rid of FIOSTV so I dont know all of the channels, but I know for sure the 210-220 were horrible (these are what my 16mo old son would watch). 215 was almost unwatchable. If I remember correctly, a lot of the shop at home channels sucked (never, ever watch those though), and I believe the starz channels in the 300 range were very grainy.

Also Fine Living (I think 136) was miserable. Don't watch it much, but that isn't the point.

Let me know how those channels work. I am gathering from this board that D* in general is sub-par for a lot of stations. This is not the case with Bright House digital cable, which is why I was so shocked at the FIOS PQ.

M

Mr. Maestro, I can certainly see why I never looked at these channels, they're all kids channels and many of them cartoons. But at any rate, here's what I found sitting about 3' from a 42" Fujitsu HD plasma. Sitting back at normal viewing distances improved my findings, but I wanted to sit close to see what issues there were. Also important to note is that my FIOS PVR is set to output 1080i regardless of channel and output via HDMI.

210- OK, not great, but just OK
211- Fairly good
212- Fairly good
213- OK
214- OK
215- Bad. There's quite a bit of 'edge noise', particularly when objects are in motion. I could still see this at normal viewing distances. Not a good channel.
216- OK
217- Fairly good
218- OK
219- Bad. Essentially the same issue as on Channel 215
220- Fairly good but a somewhat dark channel

As I said, I don't have D* anymore to compare, but I'll try comparing with the digital cable I've still got. I'm not sure how many of these channels I've got on my other system. The only redeeming issue here is that they are all kids channels and I couldn't imagine my son at that age complaining about the picture.
I guess what's surprising is that with all the bandwidth FIOS has, why would they need to apply the compression they seem to be applying to some of these channels? There may be some other explanation other than compression.

However, as I mentioned, the few SD channels we do watch are quite a bit better than the same channels on D*. They are also somewhat better than the same channels on our digital cable system (which was quite a bit better than D* when they converted to digital). Of course the problem with our digital cable system is the lacking of HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, National Geographic HD and others.

I just finished comparing these channels (the ones I could find...my digital cable system doesn't have them all) on cable. I'll say this with some degree of certainty, these channels are just not great regardless of the system. With that said, at NORMAL viewing distances, I'll still take the FIOS version over the digital cable version. Colors are brighter and the picture is sharper. If you get really close to the screen, the FIOS artifacts are more apparent than at normal viewing distances. However, it seems to me that FIOS is applying too much 'sharpening' to a few of these kids channels and that appears to produce some of these artifacts. There may be some other technical explanation, but that at least seems like an analogy I can apply.

On the flip side, some of these kids channels produce macroblocking with rapid movement on my digital cable system that don't exist on FIOS. So I'll still take the FIOS version even on these not-so-great channels. It would be interesting to see how these channels really originate from the network itself.

Ken,

Thanks for the comparison. It wasn't just limited to the channels I mentioned, but those where the ones I remembered.

There is definetly something wrong. I agree those channels aren't wonderful to begin with on digital cable, but they are worse on FIOS (at least in my house). VZ is doing something wrong. I feel like I am watching a video someone emailed me with too much compression. Did you try 136? How about the starz in the 300 range?

If they ever get this hammered out, I will jump back to FIOS in a heartbeat.

(by the way, my son doesn't complain...It's my wife who is watching with him that does all the complaining...She complains to me, then I complain to VZ (and this forum!)...

M

The motorola guy of course would not take responsibility, but was leaning towards the problem with the box.

I really hope it is in the STB. It is a lot easier to fix than if the problem was somewhere in their fiber infrastructure.

Also, I am planning on getting a Series 3 Tivo when they become available. The S3 Tivo will supposedly work with a Verizon cablecard. I would bet money if the problem is in the Motorola STB, the S3 Tivo will correct the SD PQ issues.

Ken,

I generally agree with your assessment of the 210-220 range. I also find that some shows look better than other shows on the same channel.

Mr_Maestro,

135 and 136 looked really bad tonight, and I don't get STARZ.

I have a Toshiba 30" Tube HD TV and a Sony 23" LCD HD TV. I agree, the problem worsens the closer I get to either TV.

OK, I'll go through my channels and see if I can pinpoint the ones that stand out badly. It's 3:20am here so a lot of commerical/informercial junk which probably isn't fair to judge anything on.

I've noticed that all the SD espn channels are not good. 60-64. Of course I won't watch all of those, and espn is in HD also. Just saying.
70 - cnn... how can cnn not look good with pictures of talking heads? Well, it doesnt.
100- animal planet - markedly worse than dtv, but bearable. much more noise. Meerkats on friday will be the decider.
138- disc home - not good.... very blockish on movements - high compression?
150-scifi, playing crappy old movie tonight but doesn't look good. Man if Battlestar looks bad I will be PO'd.
155-bravo - VERY blocky on celebrity poker, much worse than dtv
160-comedy central.... ggw commericals. let me cue up a Daily Show.... the Daily Show I dvr'd from earlier today looks terrible compared to dtv. noise and ghost all around Jon, bad. Tell you what Verizon, you can block up a 100 of the shop at home channels but you need to fix Comedy Central... it is one of the 5 channels I watch all the time.

More tomorrow, must sleep. I'll hit those 200+ tomorrow to see what they look like.

Why is there such a SD PQ difference from area to area??? You would think if they (Verizon) look at the differences between areas with good SD PQ and the ones with not-so-good SD PQ, they could figure out what the heck is going on !

That's a big reason why I'm holding out on getting FIOS TV at the moment. While I'm looking forward to their HD offerings (vs Adelphia/Comcast now) the truth of the matter is in my household SD gets the majority of the viewing. I have one HD capable setup (CRT projector) but the rest of the sets are SD and a SD ReplayTV. As much as I've moaned about Adelphia getting with the times, I've never seen a better SD picture than a good analog cable feed (as compared to E*/D*/FIOS and digital compression artifacting.)

I really hope it is in the STB. It is a lot easier to fix than if the problem was somewhere in their fiber infrastructure.



I'm pretty sure this is at the CO. If it were the box, you'd see all the same issues on ALL the SD channels....you don't. In fact many of the SD channels are as good as I've ever seen SD look. So I seriously doubt the Motorola box is to blame. In actuality these channels are pretty bad on my digital cable system and so most of the blame may go right back to the broadcaster. It looks to me like FIOS is trying to compensate for a soft looking channel by applying some kind of sharpening. I'm probably wrong, but that's what it looks like.

With that said, I doubt this can be an overly difficult situation to fix at the CO.

Well, I email comcast today asking about HD channels and got the canned answer I guess they send everyone. I guess I should have known. I also asked two other questions about non-hd programing that they didn't even bother to answer.

That's a big reason why I'm holding out on getting FIOS TV at the moment. While I'm looking forward to their HD offerings (vs Adelphia/Comcast now) the truth of the matter is in my household SD gets the majority of the viewing. I have one HD capable setup (CRT projector) but the rest of the sets are SD and a SD ReplayTV. As much as I've moaned about Adelphia getting with the times, I've never seen a better SD picture than a good analog cable feed (as compared to E*/D*/FIOS and digital compression artifacting.)

I have fios in Flower Mound,TX and the PQ on SD channels is as close to HD as you can get. I view SD in justified mode on a Panny 50" plasma from 10' and the picture is incredible. I have had people see a SD picture and think it is HD. I think the quality of the receiver and your in house connections are extremely important to have a great picture.

I'm going to do some head on head comparison between some of the FIOS SD and HD channels against my neighbor's comparable Dish channels. I'll post the results.

I have fios in Flower Mound,TX and the PQ on SD channels is as close to HD as you can get. I view SD in justified mode on a Panny 50" plasma from 10' and the picture is incredible. I have had people see a SD picture and think it is HD.

Agreed. That's far more indicative of the SD channels we typically watch....I've never seen better.

Maestro good to see you over here and the TampaHDTV forum. I had FiosTV installed today and I have to say on my 26" LCD it looked like crap will have to see what the new big LCD getting here Monday will look like. On the CRT there now it looked good but you had me spooked from the Tampa forum. One thing I hate is that NIM/router box from hell they put in. That this is huge and ugly. I want to use my existing router to I am trying to figure that out.

I had problems with ghosting with Brighthouse so I am Fios will deal with that but I think I will hold onto my brighthouse equipment for a few weeks to make sure the SD PQ is there. I am sure if it is bad it will magnify on a 46" 1080P LCD.

Stubro, you're saying it looks good on your CRT but bad on your LCD? If that's the case you know it's not FIOS, but rather your LCD display....unless there's something going on in the cable run to your LCD.

Fios TV installed today in Flower Mound, TX...

HD/DVR & Cablecard on 42" Sony LCD

-PQ on SD channels equivalent to D*. However, maybe I was just watching HD too long, but the PQ on the local SD channels seemed to be worse than D*. (I should note that the inside cable wiring on my house was a complete mess from the previous owners, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it.) Cablecard PQ seemed to be a tad better on both HD and SD compared to the HD/DVR.

-Cablecard installation took awhile. Both techs had not installed a cablecard before. However, it sounded like the directions they got with the cablecard were missing a step.

-Surprised to find out that I could run an hdmi cable to my TV and a digital optical cable to my a/v receiver (both from the hd/dvr). I thought I couldn't do that.

Standard Box on 32" Sharp Boulder TV

-PQ on SD similar to HD/DVR

One thing I hate is that NIM/router box from hell they put in. That this is huge and ugly.

.
I just couldn't let this go - are you serious? :rolleyes:

-Surprised to find out that I could run an hdmi cable to my TV and a digital optical cable to my a/v receiver (both from the hd/dvr). I thought I couldn't do that.


If you listen to the audio on the TV (via HDMI) at the same time you listen to the audio on the receiver (via digital optical) is there an echo?

Fios TV installed today in Flower Mound, TX...
...
-PQ on SD channels equivalent to D*. However, maybe I was just watching HD too long, but the PQ on the local SD channels seemed to be worse than D*. (I should note that the inside cable wiring on my house was a complete mess from the previous owners, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it.) Cablecard PQ seemed to be a tad better on both HD and SD compared to the HD/DVR.

Hey fmtrojan, welcome to Flower Mound FiOS!

You may want to check into your wiring or at least give FiOS a call if your SD looks that bad. I share TXG8OR's assessment above that the SD is excellent in our area (including locals). Note that I am not using a CableCard, so perhaps this enters into it as well? My primary TV is a 60" Sony Grand Wega LCD-RPTV, so I get a pretty good shot on PQ.

I wouldn't say that the SD is HD quality, but it does equal the upconverted SD that you sometimes seen on the local HD stations: basically pristine NTSC.

All in all *very* happy with PQ. But also note that I wasn't overly pleased when I had FiOS put in originally last December. SD was very questionable, but appeared to be tweaked up greatly in quality about 2 weeks later.

Whats up with the cablecard? Neither of my receivers use one.

If you listen to the audio on the TV (via HDMI) at the same time you listen to the audio on the receiver (via digital optical) is there an echo?

Just tried it and I did find a slight, but noticeable echo. I'd say the Digital Optical audio lagged the TV Speakers by 1/2 to 3/4 of a second. Previous to this test, I did notice that the digital optical audio wasn't perfectly synched with the video feed.

I have to fix this. My previous setup was a SD/Tivo from Directv which had composite for video and digital optical audio...and I didn't notice any lag.

I just couldn't let this go - are you serious? :rolleyes:

The NIM/router box is a big sucker maybe 12 inches by 8 by 3. But I think I will get it working with my router today. I dont mind the NIM part it is the router part that I dont want. But like I said that will be fixed today :) Other than that I love the service.

Stubro, you're saying it looks good on your CRT but bad on your LCD? If that's the case you know it's not FIOS, but rather your LCD display....unless there's something going on in the cable run to your LCD.

Ken I am afraid you mightbe right, the LCD might have a scalar board issue.

I tell you the picture on my CRT is out of this world. One thing I thought was odd was that I can see the HD channels on my CRT. I got an HD DVR for that room because my new SONY LCDis coming in a few days. So I hooked up the Tishiba CRT via Svideo for the time being. I find it weird that I get the HD channels on that TV and they look amazing. I mean alos HD. If that PQ is the same or better on the LCD, and it should be better, I will be thrilled. Even SD on that CRT was amazing. I know on Brighthouse(TW) I could not see HD channels on my CRT.

Hey fmtrojan, welcome to Flower Mound FiOS!

You may want to check into your wiring or at least give FiOS a call if your SD looks that bad. I share TXG8OR's assessment above that the SD is excellent in our area (including locals). Note that I am not using a CableCard, so perhaps this enters into it as well? My primary TV is a 60" Sony Grand Wega LCD-RPTV, so I get a pretty good shot on PQ.

I wouldn't say that the SD is HD quality, but it does equal the upconverted SD that you sometimes seen on the local HD stations: basically pristine NTSC.

All in all *very* happy with PQ. But also note that I wasn't overly pleased when I had FiOS put in originally last December. SD was very questionable, but appeared to be tweaked up greatly in quality about 2 weeks later.

Thanks for the welcome.

I definitely will be giving FIOS a call to see what they can do. I went back and forth between the HD Local channels this morning to look at the non-hd broadcast and compared it with the SD local channels. There is a difference. Also, my wife was watching Sex and the City last night on the WB SD and it was horrible!!!!!! (Ok, so I watched it, too)

I've also got confirmation from my next door neighbor that his SD channels come in 'crystal clear' so the problem must be my house.

However, I did overhear the techs saying my HD/DVR was 'refurbished' because it was the only one they could 'pull' that morning.

My install took a long time. I have a feeling the techs cut out because they had to go on to other houses. They arrived around 9:45 and left around 1:45. They spent 2 hours trying to find the correct coaxical. I knew my inside wiring was horrible, so I don't 'blame' them for that mess. However, I think they may have split the coax one time too potentially leading to decreased PQ. (My previous D* coaxes were straight from the sat on the outside of the house) I think they were just happy to get me a signal. They tested the HD channels, but never really looked at the SD channels.

Whats up with the cablecard? Neither of my receivers use one.

The cablecard is installed directly into the LCD TV. The output is the generic "Cable" output on my TV. I basically got it so that I could record 2 shows at once via the HD/DVR and still watch all of their channels (1-1000, etc.). Since the cablecard is one-way, I just can't use VOD or access the verizon guide when watching TV via the cablecard.

I think Verizon is sometimes too quick to go with the existing wiring. Yes it's quick & easier, but I really believe it results in too many call backs. They had to come back to me because of this same issue. Sometimes there are hidden splitters, cracked wires, compromised insulations etc etc. and these can cause issues. My stuttering video on one setup was the result of a bad wire and a hidden splitter.

I would recommend that people insist on new wiring and 'homeruns' on all feeds. This way you're guaranteed not to have wire related issues....which I think cause most problems.

I have fios in Flower Mound,TX and the PQ on SD channels is as close to HD as you can get. I view SD in justified mode on a Panny 50" plasma from 10' and the picture is incredible. I have had people see a SD picture and think it is HD. I think the quality of the receiver and your in house connections are extremely important to have a great picture.

I must really be confused. Once again, the signal going into the ONT is digital, and the signal coming out of the ONT is digital, correct? So the signal going into your receiver, via your in house connections, is digital, right? With a digital signal, as I see it, the two options are either:

1) Digital signal is not compromised (all bits get from A to B, uncorrupted). In this case the picture should look exactly like the source picture. Any noise you see must have been present in the source picture.

2) Digital signal is compromised (some bits don't make it from A to B). In this case the picture should look really bad - I'm talking random freeze ups, random blockiness, etc... I've seen this when I had DirecTV and a bad storm comes through my area - my signal strength went way down and the picture would lock up. You'd know it when you had a bad digital signal.

I am not seeing my picture freeze or any random blockiness. I am seeing noise, clay face, consistent blockiness (looks overly compressed), fuzziness, etc...

Now with analog signals, its a whole different story. In house connections can absolutely effect the PQ.

Thanks for the welcome.
I've also got confirmation from my next door neighbor that his SD channels come in 'crystal clear' so the problem must be my house.

If I were you (and your neighbor doesn't mind), I'd take a look for myself at his SD channels. One man's "crystal clear" can be another man's "just so-so". My guess is the problem is either at the source, or in the receiver - not with the in-house wiring.

Of course, I could be wrong :)

Now with analog signals, its a whole different story. In house connections can absolutely effect the PQ.

I would generally agree. But look at my case, stuttering video, sometimes there sometimes not. Who would think a bad wire would cause that? You would think it either works or it doesn't. Yet that TV was the only one in the house that was impacted and as soon as the wire was replaced, it never repeated.

With that said, some of the kids channels in the 200s that I looked at were not good, but they weren't good on my digital cable system either. Each had its problems. But the channels we do watch are really crystal clear....for SD. ;)

If the broadcast is originating in poor form, there's not much that any system can do for it.

Cable's starting to get worried:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06229/714283-96.stm

I would generally agree. But look at my case, stuttering video, sometimes there sometimes not. Who would think a bad wire would cause that? You would think it either works or it doesn't. Yet that TV was the only one in the house that was impacted and as soon as the wire was replaced, it never repeated.

With that said, some of the kids channels in the 200s that I looked at were not good, but they weren't good on my digital cable system either. Each had its problems. But the channels we do watch are really crystal clear....for SD. ;)

If the broadcast is originating in poor form, there's not much that any system can do for it.

Actually, I would think that bad wiring might cause "stuttering" video in your case. The STB might drop whole frames if it encounters an error. Having said that, maybe that is part of the problem. Maybe the STB drops whole frames when it encounters an error within a frame.

I almost wish I had my D* back to do a side-by-side comparison of the SD channels.

Ricky, I only wish you had seen my A/B with D*. My wife and I were both amazed at how much better the FIOS SD was. Colors, clarity, artifacts....alll much better on FIOS SD. Of course the HD is a no-brainer.

Anyone have any video stuttering issues Saturday night? FIOS tech support told me it was a system-wide issue. Today everything seems fine.

Called Verizon Customer Service and they patched me through to tech support. I told the tech I was experiencing poor PQ on the sd local channels, while the hd locals were perfect (and all the other channels as well). When I say poor PQ, think watching local channels (D* quality) recorded on a VHS tape.

First thing tech suggested was that the verizon-supplied hdmi cable was bad (they did give me a 10+ foot cable....looks like I only need 4 feet, though.). I told him that I already tried going to component, and the PQ was the same. Then it seemed like he reset my box/updated the firmware. Nothing changed. He then said to call back if a new HDMI cable didn't work. So, no real solution to the channel 2-10 poor PQ.

I'm really puzzled why channels 2-10 are so poor relative to all the other channels. I do have a refurbished HD/DVR box, potentially poor wiring, or just bad broadcasts? The hd local channels are crystal clear even when they broadcast HD.

This may be a blessing in disguise, however. I'm thinking of just deleting the sd-broadcasts of the local channels from the channel lineup all together. For one, it would simplify things for my wife, who is already downtrodden over the loss of the directivo. Thus, we would only watch the 800-level channels for locals (and I guess I'd keep WGN in the single digits) and 'wide zoom' them when they aren't in HD. I would imagine sd-broadcasts on the 800-level channels take up sd-broadcast space on the hard drive...

OK folks, just an update. Here is the latest. The phone issue, echoing, seems to have been finally isolated to inside the house itself. How it is this way with FIOS and not straight copper I do not know. They are supposedly trying to figure out a solution. As for the video problems they are blaming everything on my TV.

Reason 1: No issue with the other 2 TV's. They are 15" and 17". The problems on the 73" TV. My belief is that due to the size of the TV it is merely showcasing the signal problem. *When you switch to the IPG on the 73" TV, the inset picture does not have the problem either.

Reason 2: They do not see the problem in their test bed of TV's. *This facility of course does not have any RPTV's nor does it include anything in the size range of 73".

Unfortunately here is what I have resorted to. I have the inside wire maintenance plan, $5.95 a month, so I am scheduling service calls, no additional cost to me, on a weekly basis. It is my simple pettiness, yes I admit it, that is going to force Verizon to spend a whole lot more money than I am paying.

My final comment is that a former area manager confided in me that the problem was actually the signal quality coming from their certain providers. It seems to me that when I am calling in to receive my credit for poor quality of picture, Verizon should be calling the provider in return.

Elliott

Sorry, I forgot one more thing that Verizon said I was at fault for. They said that the $200.00 Audioquest cable that I have running from their splitter to their STB is not good to have.

Elliott

fmtrojan,

Channels 1-49 (about 15-20 channels) are the analog NTSC channels that you would get on another cable provider. Channels 50+ are digital. I would suggest removing all the analog channels from the guide as you suggested.

locksmith,

It is not uncommon for high quality cable from Belden etc to deliver superior performance to exotic or "snake oil" cables sold by Monster, Audioquest, etc. Monster and Audioquest typically use coax costing less than 10 cents a foot, whereas professional coax from Belden and others can run almost $1/foot in large quantities.

That said, coax cable (and signal) quality on FiOS doesn't really affect channels >50, because they are digital. If your signal quality is too low on the digital channels, you will see stuttering or dropped frames, but you won't see reduced resolution, etc. As you found, SD TV blown up on a 73" screen doesn't always look so hot. Some SD channels on FiOS look great, and there are some that don't look so great --- in my experience though, all equal or better the same channels I received on Comcast.

I do not have any complaints concerning the SD channels. My gripes are with the digital channels. There are about 20 that show ghosting and pixelization. To be fair to Verizon, I decided to meet them part way as about 16 of those channels I do not care about. The others however, well you get the idea.

Elliott

This may be a blessing in disguise, however. I'm thinking of just deleting the sd-broadcasts of the local channels from the channel lineup all together. For one, it would simplify things for my wife, who is already downtrodden over the loss of the directivo. Thus, we would only watch the 800-level channels for locals (and I guess I'd keep WGN in the single digits) and 'wide zoom' them when they aren't in HD. I would imagine sd-broadcasts on the 800-level channels take up sd-broadcast space on the hard drive...

I can't imagine why you'd watch channels 2-10 if the same channels are available in their HD counterparts. I don't care what system it is, the HD counterparts will always be better than an SD channel.

I do not have any complaints concerning the SD channels. My gripes are with the digital channels. There are about 20 that show ghosting and pixelization. To be fair to Verizon, I decided to meet them part way as about 16 of those channels I do not care about. The others however, well you get the idea.
Could you please list what channels you feel are worst / most problematic? Some Verizon representatives with actual influence follow these forums, but if you aren't specific -- what channel, what date, what program -- they can't do anything.

For those having problems with SD channel quality...I would suggest posting your "top 10" worst quality channels, along with the specifics suggested above.

Worst SD Channels I get:

1) Fox, KDFW
2) WGN
3) The rest

1) Fox, KDFW
2) WGN
3) The rest
I assume #1 and #2 are the analog channels under 50. For those, the length of the coax run, the number of splitters, etc impact the quality. Verizon doesn't mess with the quality of the digital broadcast locals (in the 800s), so if KDFW in the 800s is showing problems, then it's on their end. For 3), you could be more specific. :)

I would imagine sd-broadcasts on the 800-level channels take up sd-broadcast space on the hard drive...

I think that if it is on an HD channel it is going to take HD space on the DVR. I recorded some Simpsons reruns the other day that were "hd" but their source wasn't, and when I deleted them I noticed a big jump in my free drive space.

I assume #1 and #2 are the analog channels under 50. For those, the length of the coax run, the number of splitters, etc impact the quality. Verizon doesn't mess with the quality of the digital broadcast locals (in the 800s), so if KDFW in the 800s is showing problems, then it's on their end. For 3), you could be more specific. :)

Yes, I'm talking about the 1-50 channels. If that's the case, it's probably a combo of the length of the coax run and the number of splitters. Neither are optimal.

The 800 local channels come in crisp.

Does anyone have the manual or model number information for the Verizon/Motorola FIOS TV set top box ? I would like to check out the STB before I sign up for the service. Thanx

gwyn,

FiOS uses the Motorola QIP series boxes, which is the IPTV-capable version of the DCT series. They use the Motorola QIP 2500, QIP 6200, and QIP 6416.

You can see screenshots of the interface and guide right here (http://mysite.verizon.net/fiosdvr/).

I'm going to pickup a HD-DVR on Friday to replace my HD STB. Do I need to run a second cable for the DVR?

BTW, while I was speaking to the CSR, I inquired again about the RSN's in HD. Still no update, but she said that every time somebody asks, the request goes in a database, so keep calling!!!

I'm going to pickup a HD-DVR on Friday to replace my HD STB. Do I need to run a second cable for the DVR?
Just one cable is needed. The box splits the feed internally.

I'm going to pickup a HD-DVR on Friday to replace my HD STB. Do I need to run a second cable for the DVR?

BTW, while I was speaking to the CSR, I inquired again about the RSN's in HD. Still no update, but she said that every time somebody asks, the request goes in a database, so keep calling!!!

They gave me the impression that YES HD was 'right around the corner'. Hopefully this 'corner' isn't on that endless road I was on with D*! ;)

Stub,

Let me know how it works out for you. I had tried FIOS on 4 different televisions and had the problem with all of them. EVEN with the TV using the cablecard. FIOS really needs to address this isssue. If even 1% of the new users are getting these PQ issues, then we are talking about A LOT of unhappy customers. And, a lot of tech support hours wasted while they tell me the same stupid suggestions.

M

Sorry guys I have not had a lot of free time to check my channels. I can say however that Animal Planet (go meerkats!) does not look as good as d*. Also comedy central definately is not as good as d*... plus the sound for comedy central (at least the daily show) is all muffled and weird.

Man, where do we sign a petition to get channels upgraded to HD? Animal Planet has got to get on that list.

I spent a little time with the dvr interface setting up season passes.... what a total PoC compared to the directivo. So primitive.

Once again I would like to give a giant thumbs down to the terrible remote control. If this thing is not pointed directly to the dvr it won't read it. The directivo remote worked pointed straight up, through a blanket! Plus the layout of the remote is just hideous. I am starting to get used to it, but wife is PO'd.

I think I am keeping it though... the HD picture quality is awesome, and the equipment price (free!) vs the $399 d* wants for their hd directivo.... no brainer. I can learn to live with an awful interface (or rather, unlearn to love the tivo). Considering I am not rich and I needs me some HD football my choices are limited.

One last gripe... HDTV eats up hard drive space like mad. I had a couple of movies and 2-3 HD shows recorded and it said I was 90% full. I mean even the bottom of the line 40 hour directivo was awesome compared to that. Whats the top end on this thing, 15 hours?

Side item - I bought a hdmi to dvi cable (mits 65313 only has dvi, no hdmi) but can't get a picture with it so I've been running component. Anyone have any tips on making that work? I've been through all the 6416's menu options (including dvi mode)

They gave me the impression that YES HD was 'right around the corner'. Hopefully this 'corner' isn't on that endless road I was on with D*! ;)
Same here. Just keep calling them and asking about it.

Just one cable is needed. The box splits the feed internally.
Thanks!

Sorry guys I have not had a lot of free time to check my channels. I can say however that Animal Planet (go meerkats!) does not look as good as d*. Also comedy central definately is not as good as d*... plus the sound for comedy central (at least the daily show) is all muffled and weird.
For the audio, did you turn off or reduce audio compression in settings? I believe audio compression is on maximum by default, to reduce the difference between programming and commercials.

One last gripe... HDTV eats up hard drive space like mad. I had a couple of movies and 2-3 HD shows recorded and it said I was 90% full. I mean even the bottom of the line 40 hour directivo was awesome compared to that. Whats the top end on this thing, 15 hours?
That's the price fo quality. They could compromise on quality to increase space, but I sure don't want them doing that.

Side item - I bought a hdmi to dvi cable (mits 65313 only has dvi, no hdmi) but can't get a picture with it so I've been running component. Anyone have any tips on making that work? I've been through all the 6416's menu options (including dvi mode)
Is this a CRT set? And you have the FiOS box set to output 1080i and have disabled 480i passthrough? Turn off the box then press menu quickly.

The directivo remote worked pointed straight up, through a blanket! Plus the layout of the remote is just hideous. I am starting to get used to it, but wife is PO'd.
Time for a nice universal remote, perhaps?

Well now I'm REALLY pissed. 30 minutes ago I was driving thru Lindenhurst and saw 3 Verizon trucks on a corner. I drove over and asked them when can I tell cablevision to take a hike(not the usual price hike). They said the mayor told them to stop work in the village so they are moving on to Northport. If they receive opposition they just move on to another town.

Now who do I call at Verizon to get info and keep the ball rolling and what do I do at the town level to impress upon the mayor that he can keep his free cable but we want FIOS. Is there anyway to find out if there are deals that cablevision has wit the town?

I WANT MY FIOS!!!!!

Sorry guys I have not had a lot of free time to check my channels. I can say however that Animal Planet (go meerkats!) does not look as good as d*. Also comedy central definately is not as good as d*... plus the sound for comedy central (at least the daily show) is all muffled and weird.

Man, where do we sign a petition to get channels upgraded to HD? Animal Planet has got to get on that list.

I spent a little time with the dvr interface setting up season passes.... what a total PoC compared to the directivo. So primitive.

Once again I would like to give a giant thumbs down to the terrible remote control. If this thing is not pointed directly to the dvr it won't read it. The directivo remote worked pointed straight up, through a blanket! Plus the layout of the remote is just hideous. I am starting to get used to it, but wife is PO'd.

I think I am keeping it though... the HD picture quality is awesome, and the equipment price (free!) vs the $399 d* wants for their hd directivo.... no brainer. I can learn to live with an awful interface (or rather, unlearn to love the tivo). Considering I am not rich and I needs me some HD football my choices are limited.

One last gripe... HDTV eats up hard drive space like mad. I had a couple of movies and 2-3 HD shows recorded and it said I was 90% full. I mean even the bottom of the line 40 hour directivo was awesome compared to that. Whats the top end on this thing, 15 hours?

Side item - I bought a hdmi to dvi cable (mits 65313 only has dvi, no hdmi) but can't get a picture with it so I've been running component. Anyone have any tips on making that work? I've been through all the 6416's menu options (including dvi mode)

Burticus,

Dont even get me started on the remote. I can live with the ergonomics of that thing, but if I didnt have it pointed directly at the box, it did not work. And forget about any kind of range past 10-12 ft...

M

Does anyone know how to disable the 'wireless' portion of the Actiontech router? I've got everything hardwired and I'm getting some interference on a wireless device I've got that I traced back to the Actiontech router. I actually had the same issue with my old router and disabled the wireless function.

Does anyone know how to disable the 'wireless' portion of the Actiontech router? I've got everything hardwired and I'm getting some interference on a wireless device I've got that I traced back to the Actiontech router. I actually had the same issue with my old router and disabled the wireless function.


I would assume u put the routers ip address in your address bar and then log in. Once u get there u should see the tabs

http://www.actiontec.com/products/broadband/4port_wireless_broadband_router/datasheet.php

Thanks 65T500, the installer didn't leave me with the IP or log in info. Tech support cleared it up and I was able to easily disengage wireless.

SO does anyone have a phone number and a name of someone at Verizon where I can get info on when/if they will come back to my town?

I will be going to Town Hall on Friday to complain but I'm sure I will get the runaround from them.

For the audio, did you turn off or reduce audio compression in settings? I believe audio compression is on maximum by default, to reduce the difference between programming and commercials.


That's the price fo quality. They could compromise on quality to increase space, but I sure don't want them doing that.


Is this a CRT set? And you have the FiOS box set to output 1080i and have disabled 480i passthrough? Turn off the box then press menu quickly.


Time for a nice universal remote, perhaps?

Compression is on medium. Wife likes it, she hates it when she can't hear what people are saying so cranks it up then BOOM loud noises.

I agree I enjoy the quality.... but I mean come on. 500gb hard drives are like $150 now, what did they put in the box, a 100?

CRT rptv, 1080i output, I think the 480 is set to stretch, I will fiddle with this tonite. Problem is prolly on the TV site (Mitsubishi 65313) Actually you can just turn the box off and press menu whenever (even from remote) to access that menu. The verizon guys were working from another menu, for diags, I forgot to ask them how they got there.

I have a pronto remote, but it's a PITA to program. I will get around to it eventually. We liked the directivo remote so much I never bothered with it.

I agree I enjoy the quality.... but I mean come on. 500gb hard drives are like $150 now, what did they put in the box, a 100?
There is a 160Gb drive in the unit, which is more than the 120Gb found in most Comcast boxes. Unfortunately, that's inadequate if you like to record a lot of new HD content to watch throughout the year (i.e. after we enter the re-run season), rather than on a week-by-week basis.

There is a 160Gb drive in the unit, which is more than the 120Gb found in most Comcast boxes. Unfortunately, that's inadequate if you like to record a lot of new HD content to watch throughout the year (i.e. after we enter the re-run season), rather than on a week-by-week basis.

160GB is ridiculous, IMO. The HR10-250 from DirecTV has 250GB, and I even consider that to be anemic. I record a lot of HD content to view at my leisure, and I am constantly having to delete material just to ensure I have enough space. These things should have no less than 500GB, IMHO.

160GB is ridiculous, IMO. The HR10-250 from DirecTV has 250GB, and I even consider that to be anemic. I record a lot of HD content to view at my leisure, and I am constantly having to delete material just to ensure I have enough space. These things should have no less than 500GB, IMHO.

I agree about the size of the HD, but given quality or a smaller HD, I'll take the smaller HD every day of the week. I'd be willing to bet that FIOS will eventually roll out boxes with bigger HDs in the not too distant future.

I agree about the size of the HD, but given quality or a smaller HD, I'll take the smaller HD every day of the week. I'd be willing to bet that FIOS will eventually roll out boxes with bigger HDs in the not too distant future.

I agree! It's all about bit rate. I'm happy FiOS seems to be putting out a much higher bit rate than D*. There are ways around a small hard drive (archiving for one), there is no way around a dismal bit rate.

justin.

Ken or anyone I guess,

My reciever does not have DVI or HDMI and my TV has only DVI. How doe the HD box connect to your tv or receiver?

Are you sure your HDTV doesn't have component input? It almost sounds like you're talking about a computer monitor. If all you had was a DVI input and your receiver had no DVI or HDMI output, I don't know how you'd connect it. But that's really odd, I've never seen any HDTV that didn't have at least a component input.

Are you sure your HDTV doesn't have component input? It almost sounds like you're talking about a computer monitor. If all you had was a DVI input and your receiver had no DVI or HDMI output, I don't know how you'd connect it. But that's really odd, I've never seen any HDTV that didn't have at least a component input.


Ken

Sorry for the confusion. I meant to say that while I do have component in and DVI, I do not have HDMI. I am looking at buying an Oppo 971 DVD player that has DVI out and would get connected directly to the tv but I dont know how the FIOS stuff gets connected. If I need the DVI for the HD set from Verizon, I cant buy the Oppo as it only does 480i using component cables.

What does Verizon give you and how is it connected.

Thanks in advance

I believe this is best posted in the hardware thread, but if it belongs elsewhere my apologies in advance. This is a FIOS relevant question preceded by background on my current viewing situation. Anyhow, here we go:

I am a Tampa, FL Brighthouse cable customer with a SA8300 HD DVR hooked up to my HP MD6580n HDTV. When I'm watching SD Sci-Fi network shows such as Stargate SG-1 or Battlestar Galactica which are 4:3 letterboxed, I can press the # key to change the aspect mode as output by the SA8300 to Zoom 1 which then fills the entire screen with little to no cropping of the picture (tested by freezing the frame and switching back and forth between normal and Zoom 1). This is what I would expect as the frame inside the letterboxed 4:3 image is supposed to be 1.78:1, or full 16:9 on the 6580n. There are definite PQ issues watching zoomed analog, but it's not too terrible.

Unfortunately, if I use the aspect controls on the TV itself and switch to zoom mode, the picture is resized to fit perfectly top to bottom, but with 4" wide black bars on the left/right sides (effective stretching the image vertically to an aspect ratio of 1.5:1 instead of 1.78:1). Not a problem since I've been using the SA8300's zoom.

Here's the question: If I switch to FIOS TV, is the 6416 DVR capable of outputting 4:3 SD programming which is letterboxed so that it will properly fill my display at the correct 1.78:1 aspect? I know the 6416 has different zoom output modes, but based on what I've read on the forums, I cannot tell if the 6416 zoom will behave correctly like the SA8300, or if it will do some sort of weird zoom like the MD6580n's built in zoom function.

Thanks in advance,

-db


This was a problem I had. I just got a new HL-S5687W and wanted to be able to stretch and fill. When I went into the 6416 and changed the 4:3 output from 480i to 480P i was able to use Zoom1. One thing that I liked better on bright house is I could also do this on HD channels. If you notice on some of the HD stuff they may show it in 4:3 letter box. With brighthouse I could use the * button and still do a zoom1. With Fios I can only do a widefit which stretchs it a bit and leaves some border on top and bottom. Hope this helps. PM me if you want additoinal info. I'm in Tampa area too and have been playing around a lot with the 6416 and my new DLP.

Ken

Sorry for the confusion. I meant to say that while I do have component in and DVI, I do not have HDMI. I am looking at buying an Oppo 971 DVD player that has DVI out and would get connected directly to the tv but I dont know how the FIOS stuff gets connected. If I need the DVI for the HD set from Verizon, I cant buy the Oppo as it only does 480i using component cables.

What does Verizon give you and how is it connected.

Thanks in advance

The Verizon box has component output.

Ken

Sorry for the confusion. I meant to say that while I do have component in and DVI, I do not have HDMI. I am looking at buying an Oppo 971 DVD player that has DVI out and would get connected directly to the tv but I dont know how the FIOS stuff gets connected. If I need the DVI for the HD set from Verizon, I cant buy the Oppo as it only does 480i using component cables.

What does Verizon give you and how is it connected.

Thanks in advance

Ah, that's good! You're fine then since the FIOS receivers do have component out. :)

I got it to work - the trick is to press MENU quickly AFTER turning OFF the DVR.

Not much on that screen - at least I was able to change my TV setting.


Thanks for posting this.. Having all of my SD channels coming up with Grey Bars was really bothering me. Know I've got the box upscaling to 720 vs. 480 and I 100% thrilled now with my FioS

Ah, that's good! You're fine then since the FIOS receivers do have component out. :)


Thanks Ken,

Do you know what you get thru the component out on the FIOS receiver 480p,1080i?

What does it have for a digital output HDMI or DVI?

Has anyone compared the component out vs the digital out on a large HDTV?

Sorry for all the questions but I am trying to get setup for FIOS when its available and I don't want to buy equipment that I can't use. It's bad enough this hobby is expensive.....the real problem is it's CONFUSING as heck!!!!!

65T500, you set the resolution output in the menu system. It's got HDMI, firewire and component for the HD outputs. What's really nice is that if you have a D-VHS recorder, you can archive HD movies via the active firewire output on the FIOS receiver....a little bonus!

On my 50" Fujitsu plasma, I slightly prefer the HDMI output vs the component. You'll have to try it on your set. In general the HDMI output will look better on fixed pixel displays.

65T500, you set the resolution output in the menu system. It's got HDMI, firewire and component for the HD outputs. What's really nice is that if you have a D-VHS recorder, you can archive HD movies via the active firewire output on the FIOS receiver....a little bonus!

On my 50" Fujitsu plasma, I slightly prefer the HDMI output vs the component. You'll have to try it on your set. In general the HDMI output will look better on fixed pixel displays.


Thanks Ken,

I have a 65 inch CRT RPTV that I will have ISF calibrated when I get FIOS so I want the best picture. If the HDMI is better than the component then thats what I will go with.....if I can add a DVI adapter to the end of the HDMI cable.

I had FIOS internet installed about 3 weeks ago and they have now notified me that the TV portion is available here in Plano, TX. I have some questions regarding the wiring. My house is already wired to a central panel for SAT and cable. I am wondering what infrastructure do I need for FIOS TV? Does the TV originate via RG6 from the ONT or the back of the routers F connector? How many feeds do I need for the HD DVR? How is the multi room vid transfered throughout house? and lastly can I currently receive any analog stations without a set top box or subscription similar to basic analog cable from cable co?

Thanks for any info.

I had FIOS internet installed about 3 weeks ago and they have now notified me that the TV portion is available here in Plano, TX. I have some questions regarding the wiring. My house is already wired to a central panel for SAT and cable. I am wondering what infrastructure do I need for FIOS TV? Does the TV originate via RG6 from the ONT or the back of the routers F connector? How many feeds do I need for the HD DVR? How is the multi room vid transfered throughout house? and lastly can I currently receive any analog stations without a set top box or subscription similar to basic analog cable from cable co?

Thanks for any info.

Correct, RG6 from the ONT - which will need to be split up : the NIM takes an rg6 in and also must hookup to your fios IP network (NIM handles on demand, ppv maybe, don't know what else, it picks up a DHCP address and you don't ever mess with it once it's plugged in). Another RG6 will go to each STB you'll have. If you ask them nicely they will run yet another RG6 to a TV if you want to bypass a STB for analog cable (bottom 50 channels are analog). IMHO the analog is not good looking and you should not bother unless it's for a small tv or you don't want to spend the $3.95 for the SD box for a bedroom, etc.

The 6416 HD-DVR takes exactly 1 RG6 input, it splits it internally to it's 2 tuners.

There is no multi-room video at this stage. (that would be sweet, but no)

The good news is that Verizon will wire all this for you and proved any splitters, etc you may need. You will not have to buy cable. However my installer would not commit to any attic work, they try to use existing cabling where possible.

Has anyone had PPV problems? I tried to order UFC 62 on Sat... I agreed to the fee and selected the record option but it never showed up. I had people over at my house that were getting pretty upset by 9:20pm that it wasn't on yet! I spent 20 minutes on hold with Verizon, gave up, and ordered on Directv just so we could watch it. I wrote hatemail to Verizon, if will be ticked if they try to charge me for something I couldn't watch.

The ordering system for PPV is very cryptic too, bad layout. They really need to take some clues from Dish and Directv.

There is no multi-room video at this stage. (that would be sweet, but no)Yes, there is. It reportedly sucks, but it's available, at least in some areas. It's an ad-on service ($7 more IIRC), enables a single DVR as the server, and only lets SD receivers be clients.

Yes, there is. It reportedly sucks, but it's available, at least in some areas. It's an ad-on service ($7 more IIRC), enables a single DVR as the server, and only lets SD receivers be clients.
I thought it was a $20 add on. :confused:

Has anyone had PPV problems? I tried to order UFC 62 on Sat... I agreed to the fee and selected the record option but it never showed up. I had people over at my house that were getting pretty upset by 9:20pm that it wasn't on yet! I spent 20 minutes on hold with Verizon, gave up, and ordered on Directv just so we could watch it. I wrote hatemail to Verizon, if will be ticked if they try to charge me for something I couldn't watch.

The ordering system for PPV is very cryptic too, bad layout. They really need to take some clues from Dish and Directv.

I wanted to order ESPN X-Games PPV but Verizon FiOS seems like the only service that did not have it. Oh well I guess they don't want my money.

I thought it was a $20 add on. :confused:
Just got brochure in mail on the multroom video. It is $19.95 per month which is a $7.00 addon to DVR.

Also called Verizon today to check on ESPN GamePlan (college Footbal) and was told that it is not available. We really need a contact at Verizon to gripe about programming or the lack thereof.

I am completely satisfied with the overall picture quality on HD and SD and since I don't record anything to keep, the 160gb HDD is a lot better than the comcast 120gb.

If you listen to the audio on the TV (via HDMI) at the same time you listen to the audio on the receiver (via digital optical) is there an echo?Just tried it and I did find a slight, but noticeable echo. I'd say the Digital Optical audio lagged the TV Speakers by 1/2 to 3/4 of a second. Previous to this test, I did notice that the digital optical audio wasn't perfectly synched with the video feed.

I have to fix this. My previous setup was a SD/Tivo from Directv which had composite for video and digital optical audio...and I didn't notice any lag.

I wanted to raise this issue again and relate my own experience. I have read with interest the comments of mjwedeking regarding the echo as confirmed by fmtrojan. I've been meaning to check this for some time in my own case, but just did it the other day. I can report uncategorically that there is no echo in my case. I was wondering since both posters have reported problems with some of their SD channel reception if there is any relationship? It was interesting to me that in order to get the HDMI audio to play through my television's speakers, I had to change the audio output setting of the 6416 from PASS-THROUGH to either AUTO or L-PCM.
I continue to be very pleased with FiOS TV. I kissed D* goodbye last January after 6-1/2 years and have not regretted it for a minute.

Correct, RG6 from the ONT - which will need to be split up : the NIM takes an rg6 in and also must hookup to your fios IP network (NIM handles on demand, ppv maybe, don't know what else, it picks up a DHCP address and you don't ever mess with it once it's plugged in). Another RG6 will go to each STB you'll have. If you ask them nicely they will run yet another RG6 to a TV if you want to bypass a STB for analog cable (bottom 50 channels are analog). IMHO the analog is not good looking and you should not bother unless it's for a small tv or you don't want to spend the $3.95 for the SD box for a bedroom, etc.

The 6416 HD-DVR takes exactly 1 RG6 input, it splits it internally to it's 2 tuners.

There is no multi-room video at this stage. (that would be sweet, but no)

The good news is that Verizon will wire all this for you and proved any splitters, etc you may need. You will not have to buy cable. However my installer would not commit to any attic work, they try to use existing cabling where possible.


Ok if I understand you correctly I will need a n RG6 out of the ONT and into the house. Then split it and one goes to the router and one goes to the set top box. I dont understand how the cable going into the router does anything since there is not an output that would lead to the set top box as well.

I have E* with Voom package. I think HD on E* is really good, especially Voom channels. Those who have had E* before, how is HD picture in comparison with E*, Voom channels? Also I see a number of you comparing Fios with other cable or D*. How is Fios' SD picture in comparison with SD on E*? Also does Fios have plans for adding Voom?

Ok if I understand you correctly I will need a n RG6 out of the ONT and into the house. Then split it and one goes to the router and one goes to the set top box. I dont understand how the cable going into the router does anything since there is not an output that would lead to the set top box as well.

There actually is a rg6 input and output on the nim but because it hooks up to your fios internet too with a cat5 (off your dlink router) it may not be in the same room as your tv. Mine isn't.

I have E* with Voom package. I think HD on E* is really good, especially Voom channels. Those who have had E* before, how is HD picture in comparison with E*, Voom channels? Also I see a number of you comparing Fios with other cable or D*. How is Fios' SD picture in comparison with SD on E*? Also does Fios have plans for adding Voom?

I had E* for a brief time about a 1 1/2 years ago. I do recall finding the SD on D* better than the SD on E*. I recall the SD on E* being rather washed out. On FIOS, most SD channels I watch (and admittedly they're few) are vibrant, sharp and rich in color....certainly better than anything I've seen on either satellite system. My digital cable service picture is closer, but FIOS is still superior.

As far as HD goes, I still think FIOS is better than E* from what I recall, but this question is probably better answered by someone that's had it more recently than me.

I have E* with Voom package. I think HD on E* is really good, especially Voom channels. Those who have had E* before, how is HD picture in comparison with E*, Voom channels? Also I see a number of you comparing Fios with other cable or D*. How is Fios' SD picture in comparison with SD on E*? Also does Fios have plans for adding Voom?

I compared my Fios HD and SD channels with my neighbor's Dish set up and I definitely gave the edge to Fios on picture quality. However, I think that Dish's 622 HD DVR is much better than the Fios Moto 6416. And Dish also has the Voom channels and may soon be adding INHD -- so there is currently more HD quantity on Dish (though FIOS is slated to add more HD channels in the future). So, in my opinion, it's a close call for HD lovers in terms of FIOS versus Dish.

It is unclear at this point whether FIOS will add the Voom channels or INHD for that matter. They have stated that it is there intent to add as many HD channels as possible but Voom is aligned with Dish and INHD is aligned with the other cable operators.

There actually is a rg6 input and output on the nim but because it hooks up to your fios internet too with a cat5 (off your dlink router) it may not be in the same room as your tv. Mine isn't.

He does not have a Dlink...he has the new Actiontec router so his router and Nim are all in the same box..


As for how this works... the actiontec (or your Nim if you have the older stuff) and the STB's use a networking system called MOCA that uses your RG6 cable to send ip based ethernet traffic between themselves. This provides the data for the program guide,PPV and MRV. The Nim function prvides a ethernet bridge between the MOCA network and the Fios Internet LAN network on the router making your STB's able to "see" your PC's and the incoming FIOS network.

Here's an interesting note that I just discovered and hopefully may help some of you. I had unplugged my FIOS PVR and when I powered it back up, I got stuttering video. The picture appeared to be dropping frames. I had seen that before on another TV after moving the box and reinserting the power plug, but the stuttering disappeared the next morning. I believe I have now isolated the issue.

This goes back to our good ol' friend Mr. HDMI (thanks again Hollywood!). It seems that when I removed the power plug and then reinserted it, the HDMI handshake was not 100%. This manifested itself as a stuttering video. When I switched away from that HDMI input to another input, and then came back to the FIOS HDMI input, all was well since it forced a new 'handshake'. This also explains why on a prior occasion the stuttering disappeared in the morning. That was simply because the TV was turned off at night and turned back on in the morning to force another HDMI handshake with the FIOS box.

So if you have any instance of stuttering video, first try to reinstate your HDMI handshake and if that doesn't work, suspect bad wiring. :)

Okay D* is gone. I was able to pick up an HD DVR (after calling to order it) at the Verizon center in Hempstead. There was a little address confusion and driving around Hempstead on Friday afternoon in a storm was interesting, but it I eventually found it with some CSR help. A couple of points about the DVR in comparison to the HD-TiVo I had with D*:

There's no way to switch between the two tuners
No 30 second skip (which was a hack of the HD-TiVo) or advance 15 mins.
The shuttle speeds are a little harder to get used to
Pausing and hitting play will actually skip forward a second or two, so I usually have to hit replay.

Nothing huge, but just some things to get used to. I would really like to be able to switch between tuners. I loved being able to pause one tuner and switch to the other for quick checks or watching two games at once.

I also stumbled on an interesting feature. Verizon ran the emergency alert test yesterday and it actually broke into the playback of a show I recorded the night before. I hit the "list" button during the test and it told me that there were no shows recorded. I thought it deleted everything and I began to freak. When the test was over, everything was back to normal and all my recorded shows were there. Very interesting.

There's no way to switch between the two tuners
No 30 second skip (which was a hack of the HD-TiVo) or advance 15 mins.



These two features are available for most of the 64XX boxes used for cable TV. Check out the following URL and look in the Programming the remote to add these features.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR

These two features are available for most of the 64XX boxes used for cable TV. Check out the following URL and look in the Programming the remote to add these features.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR
Thanks. I don't have the silver remote, but I do have a JP1 remote that I was able to program with the special codes. Unfortunately, I was only able to get the skip working. I can't seem to get the tuner swap code to work.

For those who didn't don't follow the HDTV Recorders forum, here's some of what I learned today in talking with their engineering department:
I talked to Fios Tech Support today to complain about my DVR sporadically not taping David Letterman (anyone else have this problem?) and the tech mentioned that they are sending a "major" software upgrade out soon. In Virginia, it will be sent starting the end of this week through all of next week. She said it would mainly address the problem of not being able to pause live TV sometimes, but I'm hoping it will address the unreliable series recording problem too.
Thought I might elaborate on this...

The CSR probably misunderstood some memo. FiOS has a major upgrade to their DVR software tentatively planned for deployment to one or more markets in November, with other markets (incl. Virginia) to follow in early 2007. This upgrade isn't formerly announced, but it will feature significantly improved functionality. It may be the next major version of Microsoft Foundation Edition, or it may be a completely new interface from another vendor. Verizon won't provide further details at this time (nor do CSRs have such details). Expect a formal announcement this fall.

In the interim, we may see a minor update to the MSFE software in the near future. A minor update to the multiroom DVR application is likely as well.

Some have asked when multi-room DVR functionality will be added for HDTV. This is in the works, but isn't expected to come until after Verizon rolls out the new DVR software. Multiroom support for the QIP6200 and streaming HDTV around the house is tentatively planned for introduction in late 1Q 2007 or 2Q 2007.

Verizon is ordering multistream CableCards (M-Cards) for customers with the Tivo Series3, but they are on backorder and not expected to arrive before November. The multistream CableCard will be priced at the same level as the standard CableCard ($2.95/mo), or perhaps $1.00 more depending on Verizon's final cost. That said, FiOS expects that many customers will pass on the Series3 after they see the new DVR software unveiled towards the end of this year. Customers are advised to wait until they see this new software before buying a Series3.

Thanks. I don't have the silver remote, but I do have a JP1 remote that I was able to program with the special codes. Unfortunately, I was only able to get the skip working. I can't seem to get the tuner swap code to work.

So Ken, how do you find the picture compares to D*?

Thanks to all for prior info. Just got fios (with DVR) installed in Bellmore NY - pq incredible compared to the "optomized" system. So far my interaction has been all positive and professional- from the initial phone call up through the installation (7 hours with preinstalled cable witing). But I miss the 30 sec jump feature on my old Replay unit and need help deciding whether to reprogram the old replay remote via JP1 or purchase a new remote. (budget of around $100) Have tv/amp/dvd/dvr Comments?

Ricky, I only wish you had seen my A/B with D*. My wife and I were both amazed at how much better the FIOS SD was. Colors, clarity, artifacts....alll much better on FIOS SD. Of course the HD is a no-brainer.
what is the HD package that you are getting, at the moment I only have FiOS Broadband 20mb/5mb package, waiting for Fios TV in my area, Fios Braodband installer told me it was available, just some legal issues had to be resolved with local gov't "I hate gov't", till they offered me FiOS TV, at the moment have TWC "bunch of crooks", thinking of going to Dish network for their HD package, 30 HD channels plus local channel HD.

what is the HD package that you are getting, at the moment I only have FiOS Broadband 20mb/5mb package, waiting for Fios TV in my area, Fios Braodband installer told me it was available
See a sample Verizon FiOS channel lineup below:

N. Virginia FiOS channel lineup (http://www22.verizon.com/NROneRetail/NR/rdonlyres/ED53ECC4-12E2-460E-B40D-7E9D9A13BA56/0/VA_NorthernVirginia.pdf#search=%22Northern%20Virgina%20FiOS% 20lineup%22)

If you already have FiOS Internet, their TV package costs $34.95/mo. You get 180 digital channels and ~20 HDTV channels for that price. Unlike Dish Network, FiOS does not charge extra for its HDTV channels. The high-definition picture quality on FiOS is also substantially better than both Dish and DirecTV.

what is the HD package that you are getting, at the moment I only have FiOS Broadband 20mb/5mb package, waiting for Fios TV in my area, Fios Braodband installer told me it was available, just some legal issues had to be resolved with local gov't "I hate gov't", till they offered me FiOS TV, at the moment have TWC "bunch of crooks", thinking of going to Dish network for their HD package, 30 HD channels plus local channel HD.

Pretty much as bfdtv showed.

So Ken, how do you find the picture compares to D*?
The picture is MUCH better than D*. I was sure to make a big deal of that during my "exit interview" when I called to cancel. The D* CSR insted that he never heard about compression affecting quality. I told him that he needs to check out this forum.

Thanks to all for prior info. Just got fios (with DVR) installed in Bellmore NY - pq incredible compared to the "optomized" system. So far my interaction has been all positive and professional- from the initial phone call up through the installation (7 hours with preinstalled cable witing). But I miss the 30 sec jump feature on my old Replay unit and need help deciding whether to reprogram the old replay remote via JP1 or purchase a new remote. (budget of around $100) Have tv/amp/dvd/dvr Comments?

The 30 second skip can be programmed as mentioned above. Choosing a remote is really a preference thing. I always recommend a programmable remote for fexability. I was able to get my Pronto on eBay for a good price, so you should definitely check there. If you go JP1, the device code is 0476, with advanced code 173 used for skip.

I searched through this thread but did not see anything on Descrete On / Off IR codes for the Motorola boxes. Do they have descretes? If not, has anyone come up with a macro workaround, e.g. does pressing some other key automatically power on the unit(s)?

Thanks.

See a sample Verizon FiOS channel lineup below:

N. Virginia FiOS channel lineup (http://www22.verizon.com/NROneRetail/NR/rdonlyres/ED53ECC4-12E2-460E-B40D-7E9D9A13BA56/0/VA_NorthernVirginia.pdf#search=%22Northern%20Virgina%20FiOS% 20lineup%22)

If you already have FiOS Internet, their TV package costs $34.95/mo. You get 180 digital channels and ~20 HDTV channels for that price. Unlike Dish Network, FiOS does not charge extra for its HDTV channels. The high-definition picture quality on FiOS is also substantially better than both Dish and DirecTV.

Currently have DTV here at the house and keep investigating FIOS for TV (possibly internet as well), but I can't really figure out the pricing (much like all of these providers).

Please correct me if I am wrong.

$39.95 a month gets you:
- 180 channels ALL digital
- Local channels
- Hi-Def channels
- On Demand Features
- Receiver/Box

$34.95 if you get internet through them as well.

However, I am still confused, because that portion has no asterics on the mailer, but the astric (1) states that there is an extra fee of $3.95 for recorded programming, but then in another section of the mailer is also says that a DVR is $12.95 without networking. In turn, a networked (SD) DVR costs $19.95?

Bottom line, to get HD-DVR capability I recon the following:

"Basic" Service - $39.95
"Basic" HD-DVR - $12.95
HD-DVR Mo. Fee - $3.95

Total - $60 (including tax)

Does this sound about right?

Gonna throw another wrench into the works - it says internet and software is required for multiroom networking of the boxes? (HD to come later from some of the other posts)...

Bottom line, to get HD-DVR capability I recon the following:

"Basic" Service - $39.95
"Basic" HD-DVR - $12.95
HD-DVR Mo. Fee - $3.95

Total - $60 (including tax)

Does this sound about right?No. The extra $3.95 is only needed if you get the multi-room option ... for each STB you want to access the DVR from.

So ...
"Basic" Service - $39.95
"Basic" HD-DVR - $12.95

Total - $52.90 + Tax (and installation fees and whatever else they throw at ya).

Although ... if all you want is the locals in HD (none of the national HD channels) you could get

"Local" Service - $12.95
"Basic" HD-DVR - $12.95

Total - $25.90 + Tax (and installation fees and whatever else they throw at ya).

Multi-room DVR would be ...
"Basic" Service - $39.95
"Multi-room" HD-DVR - $19.95
"Multi-room" Client STB - $3.95 each

*** - Standard MVPD pricing disclaimer ... ie, this is what I was told an hour ago but you may be told something different and it may change in the next hour :rolleyes: For example, right now if you commit to 1 year TV service they'll waive the $3.95 fee on the first STB.

Gonna throw another wrench into the works - it says internet and software is required for multiroom networking of the boxes?Having a PC on your home network and software on it is required for their 'Media Manager' which lets you view photos or listen to music from your PC (on your TV via the DVR/STB). Recording content on the DVR and viewing it on a client STB doesn't require any software / internet.

I know that you can't have 2 DVR's or 2 Multi-room DVR's in the same room because the remote codes aren't assignable (without blocking one or some other workaround).

Question: Can you have a Multi-room DVR and a standard DVR in the same room? Or do they use the same remote codes/remote control?

No. The extra $3.95 is only needed if you get the multi-room option ... for each STB you want to access the DVR from.

So ...
"Basic" Service - $39.95
"Basic" HD-DVR - $12.95

Total - $52.90 + Tax (and installation fees and whatever else they throw at ya).

Although ... if all you want is the locals in HD (none of the national HD channels) you could get

"Local" Service - $12.95
"Basic" HD-DVR - $12.95

Total - $25.90 + Tax (and installation fees and whatever else they throw at ya).

Multi-room DVR would be ...
"Basic" Service - $39.95
"Multi-room" HD-DVR - $19.95
"Multi-room" Client STB - $3.95 each

*** - Standard MVPD pricing disclaimer ... ie, this is what I was told an hour ago but you may be told something different and it may change in the next hour :rolleyes: For example, right now if you commit to 1 year TV service they'll waive the $3.95 fee on the first STB.

Having a PC on your home network and software on it is required for their 'Media Manager' which lets you view photos or listen to music from your PC (on your TV via the DVR/STB). Recording content on the DVR and viewing it on a client STB doesn't require any software / internet.

Wow, if that's really the case it appears they are the first to have a rather econimical solution to multi-room hd (shared). i asked at cox the other day and was told they were still in testing (although the sd version is in circulation).

i'll definitely have to consider this.

Now if I can just figure out how DTV plans to convert current customers to hd and 5LNBs (didn't see a sticky on that... :( )

I know that you can't have 2 DVR's or 2 Multi-room DVR's in the same room because the remote codes aren't assignable (without blocking one or some other workaround).

Question: Can you have a Multi-room DVR and a standard DVR in the same room? Or do they use the same remote codes/remote control?

I've been wondering that myself.... but I've found that at least the Comcast remote is highly directional... If I point 90 degrees away from the unit, it doesn't respond. It can't even get it to pick up reflected signals from the remote. So I'm thinking of putting one DVR on a bookcase to my left, and using 25' component cables to get to the TV. The other DVR will of course be just below the set in front of me. Should be OK as long as no one to my right tries to use the remote! :D

I know that you can't have 2 DVR's or 2 Multi-room DVR's in the same room because the remote codes aren't assignable (without blocking one or some other workaround).

Question: Can you have a Multi-room DVR and a standard DVR in the same room? Or do they use the same remote codes/remote control?

Multi room DVR and standard DVR.....Same animal! Same remote for all 3 STB's (2500, 6200, 6416 ):(

Wow, if that's really the case it appears they are the first to have a rather econimical solution to multi-room hd (shared)....
The multiroom option is only SD at this time. Oh and if you record a pgm in HD, you can't share it with the SD clients. If / when they get HD multiroom working, you'd need HD client boxes... probably at the same current price of $9.95.

Multi room DVR and standard DVR.....Same animal! Same remote for all 3 STB's (2500, 6200, 6416 ):(


Crap. I don't think I can go from my current 400 hours of DVR capacity to 120.

The multiroom option is only SD at this time. Oh and if you record a pgm in HD, you can't share it with the SD clients. If / when they get HD multiroom working, you'd need HD client boxes... probably at the same current price of $9.95.Sorry ... yes ... that is correct. Guess I should have mentioned that. :o

If you have the Actiontec router, you may want to install the latest 45.120 firmware, released this month. It addresses some issues with MoCA and improves the reliability of multiroom operation.

http://mysite.verizon.net/0100010/firmware/index.htm

Save the 45.120 upgrade (http://home.swbell.net/o1ooo1o/mi424wr_4.0.16.1.45.120.rmt) to your hard drive, then login to your Actiontec router at 192.168.1.1 (http://192.168.1.1) (default login is admin, default password is password) and choose the update firmware option under Advanced.

The firmware upgrade process takes 3-5 minutes. Do not do anything else during this time. You will not lose your settings when updating the firmware.

I also stumbled on an interesting feature. Verizon ran the emergency alert test yesterday and it actually broke into the playback of a show I recorded the night before. I hit the "list" button during the test and it told me that there were no shows recorded. I thought it deleted everything and I began to freak. When the test was over, everything was back to normal and all my recorded shows were there. Very interesting.


The EAS (emergency alert system) is not a Verizon controlled event. This is a Government controlled test that MUST be done once a week at rrandomtimes. It is mmandantoryfrom the government that all DVR functions and pause ability be turned off and the video returned to "live TV" during the test. I know it sux that the STB does not return to its original state when the test is complete, but the dropping of DVR playback during the test is not controlled by Verizon at all. It is good ole Uncle Sam interrupting your recordings..... Not much we can do at this point.

I don't remember what I was watching at the time (it was either a recording or live TV on the DVR), but when the emergency test came on, my TV switched from the DVR feed to my cablecard feed. When the test was over, it returned to the dvr feed.

I don't remember what I was watching at the time (it was either a recording or live TV on the DVR), but when the emergency test came on, my TV switched from the DVR feed to my cablecard feed. When the test was over, it returned to the dvr feed.


All test we have done, the VOD stopped and all DVR recordings stopped and returned to live tv. When the test was over, the feed stayed on the live tv. If we were recording a program, the recording would continue, but the recording would not be "stacked" with all of the other recordings (if it was a series recording). It would be listed by itself.

I searched through this thread but did not see anything on Descrete On / Off IR codes for the Motorola boxes. Do they have descretes? If not, has anyone come up with a macro workaround, e.g. does pressing some other key automatically power on the unit(s)?

Thanks.
No discrete on/off codes. I recall reading about a macro for it somewhere, but I don't recall it. Its kind of unnecessary for a DVR, so I didn't try it.

The EAS (emergency alert system) is not a Verizon controlled event. This is a Government controlled test that MUST be done once a week at rrandomtimes. It is mmandantoryfrom the government that all DVR functions and pause ability be turned off and the video returned to "live TV" during the test. I know it sux that the STB does not return to its original state when the test is complete, but the dropping of DVR playback during the test is not controlled by Verizon at all. It is good ole Uncle Sam interrupting your recordings..... Not much we can do at this point.
Understood, thanks. I know its supposed to be weekly, but I recorded a two hour program with a standalone TiVo and Verizon STB that was interupted three times with the EAS message. I guess they're still ironing it out.

I know that you can't have 2 DVR's or 2 Multi-room DVR's in the same room because the remote codes aren't assignable (without blocking one or some other workaround).

Question: Can you have a Multi-room DVR and a standard DVR in the same room? Or do they use the same remote codes/remote control?

If you must have two in the same room, do what I did with my SA8100HD a long time ago. It ain't high tech, but it worked. I manually turned one box on and one off, and then the remote only affects the one that's on. Then if you want to switch to the other box, hit the "power" button, and voila, you've turned the other one on and the previous one off.

Or, you can just get a Tivo Series 3 like I'm thinkin' about doing, and have 1) a bigger hard drive to begin with, and 2) easy expandability with an external eSATA hard drive. The only problem I see is it only has 1 eSATA port, and eSATA doesn't seem to daisy-chain like firewire.

David

A couple of points about the DVR in comparison to the HD-TiVo I had with D*:

There's no way to switch between the two tuners
No 30 second skip (which was a hack of the HD-TiVo) or advance 15 mins.
The shuttle speeds are a little harder to get used to
Pausing and hitting play will actually skip forward a second or two, so I usually have to hit replay.


I use the Harmony 880 remote, and for this exact box (6416) the skip button forwards 30 seconds. I also hate the lack of responsiveness of the transport buttons, and my wife really misses the blip-blip sound (audio confirmation without LOOKING to see if you have FF1 or FF2). But you know what I DON'T miss? I DON'T miss my HD DirecTivo's glacial guide speed which made it nearly unusable. :)

David