Hi. I am seriously considering switching from DirecTV to Verizon FiOS TV. I live in Fairfax County, Virginia and FiOS TV will be available very, very soon.

My questions concern the installation and wiring.

My understanding is an ONT box will be installed by Verizon on the outside of my house. This ONT will have three (3) connections of type:

1) Coaxial (for FiOS TV),
2) RJ-45 100BaseT Ethernet (for FiOS internet),
3) Not sure, probably simply a regular phone type jack (for my phone service).

The coaxial connection is for the FiOS TV. If the installer runs an RG6 cable from the ONT to my attic (where my DirecTV multiswitch currently is), and replaces the multiswitch with something else (not sure what this would be?), I can use the exising RG6 cables (currently the outputs from the multiswitch) to distribute the FiOS TV signal to the new Verizon FiOS TV STB's and then to my TV's.

Is this correct?

If it is, can I still use my antenna for my local OTA digital channels? Right now, my antenna is in the attic connected to a RG6 cable that is connected to a splitter. Each output of the splitter is diplexed with an output of the mutiswitch. At each TV that I want to get my digital local OTA channels, I have another diplexer and connect each output of the diplexer to the antenna input and satellite input respectively of my current DirecTV STB. I would hope I could do something similar with the Verizon FiOS RG6 in the attic?

If I go with FiOS TV, I will also go with their internet service (15Mbs). I think this setup will be a lot simpler than the TV setup. All they need to do is run an ethernet cable from the ONT into the house and connect it to a wall jack (which they will install). From the wall jack, they will connect an ethernet cable that goes to a wireless router (provided by them). From the wireless router, I can connect my main PC to it using an ethernet cable. My other computers can connect wirelessly to the router using their existing wireless adapters (802.11g).

Is this all correct? ;)

They would just replace the multiswitch with a splitter. FIOS cable behaves just like Comcast cable in the house, nothing fancy needed to distribute it around the house.

You won't be able to diplex your antenna in anymore, you'll have overlap between OTA and their signal range. By the way, if you stick with Directv and get their new 5 LNB dish, you can't use diplexors with it either.

You are correct on the internet part.

Thanks, Matt. When you say "overlap between OTA and their signal range", what exactly do you mean?

Again, thanks for the quick response.

The frequenciy range used for VHF/UHF channels is the same as the analog tier from Verizon, they would step on one another. The new Directv Dish drops down into the OTA range also, hence no more diplexors with it either.

On a side note, the early reviews on FIOS TV in Keller TX I read said it offered great PQ, let us know how it goes.

The great PQ would be the only reason I would switch to FiOS. I'm really getting tired of the reduced bitrates that DirecTV is currently delivering, especially for HD.

The great PQ would be the only reason I would switch to FiOS. I'm really getting tired of the reduced bitrates that DirecTV is currently delivering, especially for HD.

I'd love to have that internet access package they have also. I'd love to tell Comcast to get lost all together. :D

"I'd love to tell Comcast to get lost all together.'

With Verizon's track record on phone service including their insensitivity to customer problems why would you think they would be better than Comcast?

Whether they are better , the same , or worse, remains to be seen. However I for one am very happy their will finally be competition and no longer a monopoly. :)

I switched from COX to DirecTV back in 1998 because the COX PQ was absolutely crap. Since then, DirecTV's PQ has gone down hill as well, including their HD. HDNET used to have stunning PQ. It's a real shame. I paid over $600 for the HR10-250.

rickypicky,
don't worry, Cox hasn't gotten any better.

I have FIOS TV installation for a HD-PVR scheduled for Friday 12/30. I've been using FIOS internet for about 2 months. I currently use DirecTV.

I'm actually considering cancelling/holding off of the installation because I found out the HD-PVR that Verizon uses cannot upscale 480i sources to 1080i. This is important to me because I'm using a Mitsubishi CRT RPTV that takes a second and a temporary "freak out" when you feed different resolutions to the 1080i component video inputs. So, if I for example change channels from HDNet to CNN, my TV is gonna go wacko for about 3 seconds until it can lock on to the 480p signal. Makes channel surfing very difficult. All three HDTV DirecTV boxes I've had for the past 5 years have been able to output a single 1080i format for all channels. :(

"I'd love to tell Comcast to get lost all together.'

With Verizon's track record on phone service including their insensitivity to customer problems why would you think they would be better than Comcast?

Never had any problems with Verizon personally, Comcast on the other hand is dragging their feet even making my cable network 2-way let alone put HD in. As a result I switched to Directv for TV and get to pay about $65 a month for my cable modem at slower speeds then customers with Comcast cable pay for since I don't use them for TV.

Verizon has been a nightmare for me to establish phone service for my mother in an assisted living facility. My sister in law was without phone service for over two months in Florida after the hurricane. My daughter was without phone service for over two week (locally) after a phone problem.

I have FIOS TV installation for a HD-PVR scheduled for Friday 12/30. I've been using FIOS internet for about 2 months. I currently use DirecTV.

I'm actually considering cancelling/holding off of the installation because I found out the HD-PVR that Verizon uses cannot upscale 480i sources to 1080i. This is important to me because I'm using a Mitsubishi CRT RPTV that takes a second and a temporary "freak out" when you feed different resolutions to the 1080i component video inputs. So, if I for example change channels from HDNet to CNN, my TV is gonna go wacko for about 3 seconds until it can lock on to the 480p signal. Makes channel surfing very difficult. All three HDTV DirecTV boxes I've had for the past 5 years have been able to output a single 1080i format for all channels. :(
Yes, I've set my cable converter for only 1080i to avoid 480p/1080i switching with my 1080i CRT-based RPTV. My SA8300HD does a good upconversion job and has a fine DVR ability, although like most cable STBs it seems limited to <1300-line resolvable detail from HDNet's Tuesday 6 am ET test patterns. CableCard users report improved fidelity but so far haven't seen any reliable test pattern numbers.

If anyone gets a FIOS HDTV installation with a DVR, plus a knowledgeable installer, maybe they could uncover the STBs diagnostic mode, then figure out what bit rates Verizon is using for 1080i/720p. A few members in the programming forum maintain sites that provide bit rates for various programs/sources, and have posted threads on how to measure bit rates using a DVR.

An earlier somewhat controversial post mentioned Verizon doesn't 'compress' video from programmers, and the meaning of that is still unclear. (Downlinked 1080i/720p from program sources is typically about 45 Mbps, which gets shrunk to <17 Mbps (video payload) by cable companies or OTA stations.) -- John

I would expect that FIOS will provide the HDTV at the same compression level it is given it by the providers. In other words, if your OTA station is compressing down to 17 Mbps then this is likely what FIOS will get. These guys have a good chance to avoid compressing these signals longer than some of the other guys, especially if they complete their move over the IPTV.

I received an express letter a couple of days ago from Verizon telling me FIOS TV is available in my area. My major concern with this service over my current DirecTV is that their DVR only records up to 85 hours of standard definition broadcast. This likely boils down to 11-12 hours of HDTV, which would not be sufficient. Does anyone have any better insight into this?

I would expect that FIOS will provide the HDTV at the same compression level it is given it by the providers. In other words, if your OTA station is compressing down to 17 Mbps then this is likely what FIOS will get. These guys have a good chance to avoid compressing these signals longer than some of the other guys, especially if they complete their move over the IPTV.Yes, Verizon's FIOS might be expected to relay OTA HD at the station's bit rate (<17 Mbps video payload after removal of forward error correction bits). Believe that leaves a lot of downlinked programming to cable/DBS head ends at ~45 Mbps, though, and with fiber's huge bandwidth advantages--assuming associated gear can take advantage of it--FIOS might deliver MPEG-2 at its 'sweet spot' (23--30 Mbps, according to dr1394 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5072024&&#post5072024)). -- John

Yes, Verizon's FIOS might be expected to relay OTA HD at the station's bit rate (<17 Mbps video payload after removal of forward error correction bits). Believe that leaves a lot of downlinked programming to cable/DBS head ends at ~45 Mbps, though, and with fiber's huge bandwidth advantages--assuming associated gear can take advantage of it--FIOS might deliver MPEG-2 at its 'sweet spot' (23--30 Mbps, according to dr1394 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5072024&&#post5072024)). -- John


I currently get my OTAs via antenna and DirecTV HD STB. Do you think my OTA digitals will suffer going through FIOS? It doesn't appear their box will allow for an antenna connection.

My installation is tomorrow morning.

I currently get my OTAs via antenna and DirecTV HD STB. Do you think my OTA digitals will suffer going through FIOS? It doesn't appear their box will allow for an antenna connection.

My installation is tomorrow morning.

If they pass the signal through untouched as mentioned above, the PQ should be the same.

Never had any problems with Verizon personally, Comcast on the other hand is dragging their feet even making my cable network 2-way let alone put HD in. As a result I switched to Directv for TV and get to pay about $65 a month for my cable modem at slower speeds then customers with Comcast cable pay for since I don't use them for TV.


If you have a cable modem, the network is two way :)

I currently get my OTAs via antenna and DirecTV HD STB. Do you think my OTA digitals will suffer going through FIOS? It doesn't appear their box will allow for an antenna connection.

Wouldn't think OTA via FIOS would be degraded. Cable head ends often get direct feeds via fiber optics, etc., which could exceed OTA unless the cable head end applies rate shaping or other PQ-degrading techniques to conserve bandwidth, (which FIOS shouldn't have to.) With a parallel OTA setup, it's pretty easy, usually, to set up a means of instant, back-and-forth A-B comparisons--say a live CBS football game from OTA and Verizon via a switch, or through two separate display inputs. -- John

If you have a cable modem, the network is two way :)

Yeah I know, ask Comcast why they still hand out STB's that require being plugged into a phoneline and they still don't offer OnDemand in my county. We've had cable modems for 2 years, they have yet to update anything else equipment wise.

"I'd love to tell Comcast to get lost all together.'

With Verizon's track record on phone service including their insensitivity to customer problems why would you think they would be better than Comcast?I switched from Time Warner's RoadRunner to Verizon's DSL and I'm very satisfied with my new ISP. As soon as Verizon FiOS TV is available in Upstate NY, I'll drop Time Warner completely.

My installation is tomorrow morning.


It sounds as if you decided to go forward with your installation. Hopefully your improved PQ will be a good tradeoff for your conversion issue. Best of luck with the install. I just ordered an HDMI cable and a firewire cable in anticipation of next month's installation. Now if they'll just notify me it's available in my area. :eek:

Hi again,

Had my FIOS install this morning, everything went well. I have had DirecTV HD for almost 5 years. I kinda had to run out after he was completed to come to work, so I didn't get to play with everything completely.

Interesting things: installer had to run a RG6 line to my computer/modem location to install another box (hooked up to my FIOS router/modem) that looks like a small router. Apparently, this thing talks through the internet to download program guides to the STBs.

It did take 15-30 minutes initially for each box to download the necessary info to come online. Each box has an IP address.

The motorola HD-PVR they got me has a Seagate 160GB HD in it, I could see it though the top of the box. Picture quality looks pretty good from the HD box. I notice very few compression artifacts on HD channels with my limited observation. The bowl game showing on ESPN earlier today looked fantastic! The new channel "Wealth HD" was showing some SD programming :(

It did take the installer some time to figure out how to access the set-up menu that lets you change the box output resolution and how it handles 4:3 programming. Unlike other HD boxes, you only have two options to watch 4:3 SD programming if you're outputting 1080i/720p all the time. Those two options are a standard stretch or 4:3 w/black bars. Neither is ideal for me, since I have a CRT RPTV and I want to avoid fat people and the black bars could potentially cause burn it. I could switch the box to output 480i/480p for 4:3 SD programming, but that doesn't work well either, because when flipping channels from SD->HD, it takes my set a few seconds to lock on to the new scan rate.

The minor issue above aside, I feel the overall image quality is better than DirecTV, especially on the SD channels. Even a 10% improvement of HD channel performance is worth it IMO.

Had my FIOS install this morning, everything went well.

...I feel the overall image quality is better than DirecTV, especially on the SD channels. Even a 10% improvement of HD channel performance is worth it IMO.

Thanks for taking the time to compose a very informative and helpful post. That is good enough to validate my decision to switch once it is available here in Fairfax County. The reliability of my FiOS internet service after 6 months has won me over. I have been with DirecTV for 6-1/2 years but am not a Sunday Ticket sub. I feel confident that Verizon will have the MLB and NBA sports subscriptions in due time. Here is hoping you enjoy your new service and that you will keep us posted.

Billodom, thanks for the kind words.

As a long-time D* customer myself, I doubt you'll have any regrets about switching to FIOS when available to you. Picture quality is king at my house, and since there is no real premium for the Verizon service over D*, I have to vote with my dollars. If D* had never 'dumbed-down' their HD channel resolutions to HD-lite, then the choice would have been tougher. We'll see what happens with D* goes completely over to MPEG-4, but I'm not holding out any high hopes ;)

Great info!
I have one question, maybe 2.
How much is the FIOS service and are they packaging TV/net/VoIP to existing Verizon Phone customers? I saw that they have just gotten a Video franchise or clearance from NY state to compete with Cablevision. Cablevision is sueing them?
Where will they get their programming from?
My neices family is in one of the NY towns that are in Verizons sights for FIOS and I'm trying to help them make some sense of the situation.
They now have Cablevision, 8 TV's (no STB's) and Optonline. Phone is Verizon.
Town is Massapequa Park.
Where can I get the lowdown on this new option for combining all these services in one fiber optic cable? Besides here of course. I need to catch up and do allot of reading!
TIA & Happy New Year!

Great info!
Where can I get the lowdown on this new option for combining all these services in one fiber optic cable?

The Verizon FiOS TV website (http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/FiosTVHome.aspx) is a good start.

Here is the news release (http://newscenter.verizon.com/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=92868) from Verizon detailing the Massapequa Park video franchise award.

Here is an article (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6286136.html?&display=Features&referral=SUPP) you might find interesting as well.

The minor issue above aside, I feel the overall image quality is better than DirecTV, especially on the SD channels. Even a 10% improvement of HD channel performance is worth it IMO.

Thanks for the very informative post. I know it is difficult to determine 'how much better' the PQ is. I must confess though, I was expecting a bigger jump with FiOS than 10% for HD over D*. As I stated earlier, before 'HD-Lite', HDNet and Discovery HD on D* had the 'WOW' factor. Is the 'WOW' factor back with FiOS?

Also, how much better is the SD with FiOS? Some of the SD channels on D* are, IMHO, unwatchable on my HDTVs (one 30" direct view, one 23" LCD).

Thanks billodom! That's exactly what I needed!!
Now I have to figure out how to handle 8 TV's!
Does anyone know the multi room policy for FIOS? Cable service, just to compare?
I know DirecTV is 5 bux a room and Dish is similarly priced.
Right now they use the cable companies wire directly into the set giving them basic reception.
Be nice to have 1 big set in the den with an STB and movie channels I imagine.
This isn't for me, I'm in Manhattan, but for my neice and her family of 6 in Massapequa Park.

ricky picky: And some of the SD channels (National Geo, live news, and many others give me a fine picture from Directv displayed on a plasma. Of course, if the source is weak, then, the resulting image on the screen is the same. And, I personally believe there are some great HD programs from Directv. The WOW factor is still there for me! Stunning is Sunrise Earth everytime I watch it.

Thanks for the very informative post. I know it is difficult to determine 'how much better' the PQ is. I must confess though, I was expecting a bigger jump with FiOS than 10% for HD over D*. As I stated earlier, before 'HD-Lite', HDNet and Discovery HD on D* had the 'WOW' factor. Is the 'WOW' factor back with FiOS?

Also, how much better is the SD with FiOS? Some of the SD channels on D* are, IMHO, unwatchable on my HDTVs (one 30" direct view, one 23" LCD).


Well the 10% improvement for HD is just a guess.. it's hard to quanitify such things without test patterns. After further watching, there is definitely less MPEG artifacting with FIOS compared to D*. Sharpness is improved as well.

SD channels are the best I've ever seen. Sure, this is some blockiness or compression noise visible, but much less than cable or satellite.

Another poster asked about how much Verizon charges per room. It's more like a cable company. The HD box is $9.95, the HD-PVR is 12.95, and the standard def boxes are $3.95 each. No hardware purchase required.

ricky picky: And some of the SD channels (National Geo, live news, and many others give me a fine picture from Directv displayed on a plasma. Of course, if the source is weak, then, the resulting image on the screen is the same. And, I personally believe there are some great HD programs from Directv. The WOW factor is still there for me! Stunning is Sunrise Earth everytime I watch it.

How long have you had DirecTV? As stunning as Sunrise Earth is now, about 1 1/2 years ago, it was much better. Same for HdNet (Bikini Destinations, as good as it looks today on DirecTV, was much ;) better back then). There is no doubt that the PQ on DirecTV's HD channels looks very good (especially when compared with SD) - it's just not as good as it has been in the past - viewing the same programming. I get my locals OTA, and CBS OTA looks much better than the HD Sunday Ticket games on DirecTV.

There are numerous threads in the HDTV Programming Forum that contain bitrate/resolution issues with DirecTVs HD. Do a search for hdlite.

And believe it or not, I am not a DirecTV basher. I am an eight year subscriber that has thrown a lot of money in their direction. I don't care how many HD channels they offer, just give me a few at full resolution/bitrate!

rickypicky: I started with a Big Dish in 1992 and have been with Directv for many years. Many of us tend to go by 'numbers' far too much. I do not go by numbers, only what my eyes tell me. To me, Directv (if the source is very good) looks very good to me. It looks much better than 480i and 480i looks good, for the most part. I have compared local tv with Directv many times (SD as well) and they look very close in quality to my eyes. I realize you are not 'bashing' Directv (as many do here on this Forum). From time to time, I think it good if the other side is presented. There are always newcomers to this Forum wondering how Directv will look on their home display. Of course, they must decide for themselves. But I am saying, to me, the picture is very good and we (as a family) enjoy what we see very much. Of course, picture quality will gradually get better thru the years. It all began back in the 40's with a small black and white picture. You, as viewers, let your eyes be the judge of the quality images you see on your HD display. There are some here who will never be satisfied with what they see. As for me, I am very pleased. And looking forward to an even better picture in the coming years. I have a Panasonic plasma by the way. And for audio, I do stereo (2-channel) thru a great audio system. Music is my first love.

Just to chime in on the DirecTV discussion-
Back in 2002 I had Time Warner Cable (TWC) here in NYC and DirecTV at a vacation house 150 miles away in the mountains. No choice there as an antenna would give me 1 religious station and 2 unwatchable newwork channels.
I had allot of problems with TWC in NYC because they refused to give me a 'clear' picture and stated that their 'signal strength' was all they were responsible for. Bull! My 'eyes' told me different!
I hooked up to an ababdoned dish on my roof and was able to do an A-B comparison on the same TV (a 31" Panansonic at the time) between the 2 services.
The picture from DirecTV was stunning compared to TWC! I immediately canceled my TWC and had DirecTV do a full install here in Manhattan, NYC. That was all for SD of course.
Now in Feb '05 I purchased my first HDTV, Sharp LC-37G4U, and DirecTV didn't look so good anymore and their HD choices were horrible and expensive too! So, I hooked up my old TWC wire that was still hanging outside my window and compared the signals again!
WOW! TWC must have improved their service to my block because the DirecTV picture was washed out compared to the cable! I was very surprised! I took the TWC promo and hooked back up with cable!
I later found out that DirecTV had watered down their signal since my last comparison (I'll leave the numbers to you guys and use my eyes for myself).
I was scheduled for a Voom install in April but they went out of business before I could get it in! Bummer!
Today I am on TWC-NYC with an SA 8300 HD-DVR and having problems with all my equipment.
From what I've gathered so far I have to imagine that FIOS, with more bandwidth alloted to each channel- especially HD, would look better than all of them! Plus they have those techs watching the feeds to their network at 2 headends! Something I thought TWC had been doing but was proven wrong by a visit to their control room and conversations with some of their engineers on duty at 23rd st. I think Verizon will have the edge due to their FIOS training and customer service experience.
I will recommend that my neice hook up to the FIOS network when they start signing them up in Massapequa Park in a month or two! I already know that the Cablevision service they get there now is not up to par and they refuse to make it better without an upgrade.
Competition will drive this market and hopefully we can have better choices and prices in the future. I'm waiting for MPEG4 to see how that impacts the sats unless FIOS comes to my house!

I did some simple calculations today that would appear to indicate the FIOS is giving me HDTV at ~18.11Mbs.

First, we have to agree upon one assumption. That the 160GB Seagate hard drive in the FIOS HD-PVR holds about 150GB of actual programming. Some space on the HD is for caching live TV and such, and doesn't 160GB actually mean there's several gigs less that is actually available as storage space? Someone more knowledgable about hard drives chime in please.

OK, so I had exactly 7hours 48 min of HD material recorded off of HDNet and HDNet movies. My DVR said I had used 34% of my available space. By division, we can assume you can get ~23:00 hours on the hard drive of HD programming. Still going on the assumption that we have 150GB to record onto, it appears that one hour of HD takes 6.52GB. Divide that out and we have a data rate of 18.11Mbs.

Sound about right? If so, FIOS is definitely not "HD-Lite" ;)

I did some simple calculations today that would appear to indicate the FIOS is giving me HDTV at ~18.11Mbs.

First, we have to agree upon one assumption. That the 160GB Seagate hard drive in the FIOS HD-PVR holds about 150GB of actual programming. Some space on the HD is for caching live TV and such, and doesn't 160GB actually mean there's several gigs less that is actually available as storage space? Someone more knowledgable about hard drives chime in please.

OK, so I had exactly 7hours 48 min of HD material recorded off of HDNet and HDNet movies. My DVR said I had used 34% of my available space. By division, we can assume you can get ~23:00 hours on the hard drive of HD programming. Still going on the assumption that we have 150GB to record onto, it appears that one hour of HD takes 6.52GB. Divide that out and we have a data rate of 18.11Mbs.

Sound about right? If so, FIOS is definitely not "HD-Lite" ;)

Good work, Sam.

After reading John Mason's post earlier in this thread, I did a search and came upon an archived thread (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=464273) that discussed bit rates and how to calculate them. Based on that, I came up with a rate of 15.56--6.52GB/H divided by 3600 times 8590.

Perhaps John will post his comments on your calculations. Thanks again for keeping us advised.

Interesting story on a FIOS install..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6894421&&#post6894421

I already have FIOS Internet and now I'm considering Fios TV. To keep the installer from stapling cabling to the outside of my house, I want to do as much prewiring as I can.

From what I've extrapolated so far.

1 RG6 from outside box to computer router to download channel guide.
1 RG6 from computer router to attic to be split to STBs
1 RG6 from attic to each STB

What am I missing?

I already have FIOS Internet and now I'm considering Fios TV. To keep the installer from stapling cabling to the outside of my house, I want to do as much prewiring as I can.

From what I've extrapolated so far.

1 RG6 from outside box to computer router to download channel guide.
1 RG6 from computer router to attic to be split to STBs
1 RG6 from attic to each STB

What am I missing?

You don't need a separate RG6 cable from the ONT outside to the NIM (the device plugged into your router). In my setup, I have a single RG6 cable coming in from the ONT. It is then split 4 ways - 3 for the STBs, and 1 for the NIM.

Since the antenna and the cable signal from Fios can't both travel on the same coax, I need to find a good cable installer in Flower Mound to run some new cables for me as backup in case Fios goes down. Am I being overly cautious? Has Fios been reliable for everybody?

Since the antenna and the cable signal from Fios can't both travel on the same coax, I need to find a good cable installer in Flower Mound to run some new cables for me as backup in case Fios goes down. Am I being overly cautious? Has Fios been reliable for everybody?
How often does your phone go out? :cool:

How often does your phone go out? :cool:

How often do you lift the handset and check? :rolleyes:

Since the antenna and the cable signal from Fios can't both travel on the same coax, I need to find a good cable installer in Flower Mound to run some new cables for me as backup in case Fios goes down. Am I being overly cautious? Has Fios been reliable for everybody?
I've had FiOS TV and internet installed for about a week now and I haven't had any problems at all. My older brother has had internet for something like 6 months and he hasn't had it go out even once!

How often do you lift the handset and check? :rolleyes:

LOL! :D

Actually, I use Vonage. It goes when the internet goes, which, with Comcast previously, it happened more often than I care to remember.

I inquired to V to see if Fios was available and asked when my town was going to get It... Basically I got a e-mail from V and it said my town was not on the list of Mass. town's that wil be upgrading to Fiber Optic cable in 2006 , but they would contact the St******** town Selectmen when they were ready. SO.. I myself would not be getting anything till late 2007 if then....
I have a two year contract anyway with D**( HD tivo rebate deal) so no biggie.

Might be of interest...

Here's a few photos http://news.com.com/2300-1034_3-5894693-1.html?tag=ne.gall.pg

Dated back to Oct 15th.

I have been a FIOS Internet customer about a year and now am considering dumping E* for FIOS TV. Is there a good source of info about the DVR box as configured for FIOS TV? I looked at specs from Motorolas web site but that told me very little (other than confirming the component HD outs that I need). I am wondering if it has season pass (ala Tivo), and if you can share recordings among STBs using Motorolas MoCa technology.

Try http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=617635&highlight=QIP

for a little bit more info.

Is this the Document you looked at ? http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/product_documents/QIP6416-520408-001-a.pdf

I have been a FIOS Internet customer about a year and now am considering dumping E* for FIOS TV. Is there a good source of info about the DVR box as configured for FIOS TV? I looked at specs from Motorolas web site but that told me very little (other than confirming the component HD outs that I need). I am wondering if it has season pass (ala Tivo), and if you can share recordings among STBs using Motorolas MoCa technology.

Yes to season pass. Not yet to sharing. It's there (supposedly), just not activated yet.

I have had FIOS internet service for about a year in Southlake TX. I had been a cable customer briefly, but the PQ was so bad. I set up an OTA system for local HD's that provided really great picture quality, but occasionally picture dropout. I then went to VOOM which provided programming HD along with my OTA for local HD. Unfortunately VOOM went under and I switched to DISH. They didnt provide locals in HD so still relied on OTA. Southlake is about 25 miles from centralized transmitters in Cedar Ridge and I have a lot of trees with its associated problems. I got tired of locals in SD because my OTA was getting increasingly bad especially in the summer. I then subscribed to DTV which now offers local HD programming. The DTV local programming was missing ABC in HD, but I think the PQ was also compromised. Maybe due to the limited bandwidth problem mentioned here or a bad MPEG4 decoder? A bigger problem was audio dropout. Just about the time that I was wondering how to fix my HD PQ problem, VERIZON offered FIOS TV service in my neighborhood. I am now very happy with the HD PQ, all channels come in including ABC, and no more audio issues. The HD PQ is now everywhere as good as my OTA but without the problems I was encountering. And I guess it can rain with no pixelation, not that that has been a problem lately. BTW I have a Sony HS20 projector with a 108" screen where changes in PQ are easy to assess. However on my Pan 42" plasma everything looks relatively good.

Thanks for the info everyone. That answers my questions. I'm definitely leaning towards pulling the plug on E* and going to FIOS. I've been a relatively happy E* customer but I paid $1000 for the 921 when it first came out so you can guess how I feel about that whole fiasco. I've kind of had it with Charlie's broken promises on that sad box. Also, I've lost my look at 61.5 due to neighbors tree growth which really limits the HD I can receive. Also, the DVR and additional receiver fees do irritate me a bit too. Right now I pay $75 with Dish for
* Americas Top 180 with Locals
* DVR Fee (for 921)
* Addtl receiver fee (for my 921)
* Dish HD Package (no Voom)
* Extended Warranty

I'm figuring with FIOS It will be
$35 Expanded Basic
$12 DVR Fee (I think someone said there is a $12 DVR fee)
$12 Maybe the Entry Movie Package

Totals out to $59


Am I missing something? How much will I pay for a 2nd QIP6416 receiver to service my two upstairs TVs? Also, is the $12 DVR fee correct?

It's 12.95 for the DVR and 34.95 if you also have Internet or phone service with them. Otherwise Expanded basic is 39.95.

I have had FIOS internet service for about a year in Southlake TX. I had been a cable customer briefly, but the PQ was so bad. I set up an OTA system for local HD's that provided really great picture quality, but occasionally picture dropout. I then went to VOOM which provided programming HD along with my OTA for local HD. Unfortunately VOOM went under and I switched to DISH. They didnt provide locals in HD so still relied on OTA. Southlake is about 25 miles from centralized transmitters in Cedar Ridge and I have a lot of trees with its associated problems. I got tired of locals in SD because my OTA was getting increasingly bad especially in the summer. I then subscribed to DTV which now offers local HD programming. The DTV local programming was missing ABC in HD, but I think the PQ was also compromised. Maybe due to the limited bandwidth problem mentioned here or a bad MPEG4 decoder? A bigger problem was audio dropout. Just about the time that I was wondering how to fix my HD PQ problem, VERIZON offered FIOS TV service in my neighborhood. I am now very happy with the HD PQ, all channels come in including ABC, and no more audio issues. The HD PQ is now everywhere as good as my OTA but without the problems I was encountering. And I guess it can rain with no pixelation, not that that has been a problem lately. BTW I have a Sony HS20 projector with a 108" screen where changes in PQ are easy to assess. However on my Pan 42" plasma everything looks relatively good.


How does the FIOSTV PQ compare with Voom (both SD and HD)?

How does the FIOSTV PQ compare with Voom (both SD and HD)?
Kinda hard to compare to something that doesn't exist anymore. :cool:

Kinda hard to compare to something that doesn't exist anymore. :cool:

Not really - I know that my VOOM SD kicked Cox's and DirecTV's butt in PQ and the HD was pretty similar to Cox without having to have to compare them side by side.

Not really - I know that my VOOM SD kicked Cox's and DirecTV's butt in PQ and the HD was pretty similar to Cox without having to have to compare them side by side.
It would probably be hard to find someone who had VOOM, has FIOS now, have them remember what VOOM used to look like and compare it to what they have now. VOOM's been out of business for what a year and the first FIOS TV install is only about 4 months old. And of course there's specific install differences that might influence PQ along with a lot of subjectivity.

Since the antenna and the cable signal from Fios can't both travel on the same coax, I need to find a good cable installer in Flower Mound to run some new cables for me as backup in case Fios goes down. Am I being overly cautious? Has Fios been reliable for everybody?

A simple A/B switch where ever your cable splits off from to all the rooms in your house to allow you to be able to feed either FIOS or cable over your exisiting cabling would be easier...

Does the Verizon FIOStv DVR show onscreen caller-id info? Don't see it addressed on the Moto site for the ref 6416 box. Been a DISH customer for a decade or so and have gotten *real* used to this. Would go a long way for the WAF rating for switching over.

I am in Sachse Tx, just got phone confirmation we are eligible for both FIOS net/tv. Will switch from DSL for sure, and am ready to drop DISH as they piss me off for no deals to existing customers.

Will Verizon install go into attic at all? I am now in a w/c from a wreck(hence my absence from here for 2.5 yrs) and cannot do any wiring I used to. My phone box is on complete other side from my modem spot, plus I have a rash of RG6 connects in attic from Cband to DISH to +VOOM and want to keep my OTA connections also.

Sorry if these are redundant Q's, got a lot of catching up to do. Thanks.

Does the Verizon FIOStv DVR show onscreen caller-id info? Don't see it addressed on the Moto site for the ref 6416 box. Been a DISH customer for a decade or so and have gotten *real* used to this. Would go a long way for the WAF rating for switching over.

I am in Sachse Tx, just got phone confirmation we are eligible for both FIOS net/tv. Will switch from DSL for sure, and am ready to drop DISH as they piss me off for no deals to existing customers.

Will Verizon install go into attic at all? I am now in a w/c from a wreck(hence my absence from here for 2.5 yrs) and cannot do any wiring I used to. My phone box is on complete other side from my modem spot, plus I have a rash of RG6 connects in attic from Cband to DISH to +VOOM and want to keep my OTA connections also.

Sorry if these are redundant Q's, got a lot of catching up to do. Thanks.
Verizon seems to be investing a lot to break into this market and is willing to do just about anything. The only limit I read about is not fishing wires inside walls. It depends on the crew you get and how much you ask them to do.

A simple A/B switch where ever your cable splits off from to all the rooms in your house to allow you to be able to feed either FIOS or cable over your exisiting cabling would be easier...

THAT's why I love the collaborative process! Great idea and thinking out of the box. :)

Kinda hard to compare to something that doesn't exist anymore. :cool:


doesn't VOOM still exist (with Dish network)??

Does the Verizon FIOStv DVR show onscreen caller-id info?
No caller ID. The STBs/DVRs don't even connect to a phone line.

I did some simple calculations today that would appear to indicate the FIOS is giving me HDTV at ~18.11Mbs.


I do not have FIOS but I do know that the firewire ports are active. If you want to get an accurate bitrate count; do a capture with the software DVHSCap. The will tell you the Resolutions and the BitRate of the transport stream.

doesn't VOOM still exist (with Dish network)??
Some of the channels that VOOM used to have might be carried by Dish, but its anyone's guess if the quality is the same. When one has to pay for the satelite by the MB, data rate and PQ is the first victim.

I don't have any formal measurements, but the quality of the HD channels on FiOS are clearly better than D*. The best part is the seamless addition of MHD the other day. If we continue to see this pattern of rapid channel addition (hopefully only bound by getting a carrier agreement) then I will be very very happy.

Called yesterday and set up FiOS install tv(2 HD DVR's)&net. They will be here next friday 2/17, w/ a 1-5pm window.

CSR said they like to put b/u battery in a garage(?), my ONT box will be on opposite side of house w/ no cover available, hope they have a weatherproof box for it. Also sounds like they will run all necessary wire, even in wall, we'll see.

Had read about a special on 1/2 off for movie pkg, she said yes. But then quoted me $5 more/month $39.95 for the Basic Ext pkg instead of $34.95. wtf? Told her no thanks.

Just went w/ the 5meg net, I have DSL(1.5M/384k) with them for $29.95/month and they are just gonna upgrade me to FiOS 5/2M for same price. cool.

I'm ready.

edit: oh yeah, found a blurb saying they haven't initiated caller-id on tv yet because it was low on their customers interest. Think I'll work on that.

Yes, The ONT plugs into a b/u battery unit. The intention of this is to maintain phone service in the case of a power outage. It is not clear whether this maintains internet or TV service, and I have seen at least one posting that says it does not. However, just how much browsing or TV watching will you be doing during a power outage? If you have VoIP, you can always go with a cellphone backup like I do.

Yes, the ONT is reasonably weatherproof. It is similar to other telephony/cable boxes you may have on the outside of your house already.

They will run additional wiring, but I have been told that they tend to take a path of least resistance on this. This means that if it is easier to run the coax around the outside of your house tacked under the eaves instead of running it up through your attic they will do this. The only way to avoid this would be to 1. be present during the install and 2. know what you are talking about with regard to how you would like it wired. Even better would be to have it prewired before they get there, but that may not be an option for everyone.

I had the 15Mb internet service and they boost the overall connection to 30Mb to support VOD. Reportedly, only 15Mb of this is available for internet browsing, however. A specialized firmware is installed into the DLink router they provide to perform this magic I believe.

Good luck on your install!

Yes, The ONT plugs into a b/u battery unit. The intention of this is to maintain phone service in the case of a power outage. It is not clear whether this maintains internet or TV service, and I have seen at least one posting that says it does not. However, just how much browsing or TV watching will you be doing during a power outage? If you have VoIP, you can always go with a cellphone backup like I do.

!
The battery backup is to power the ONT in case of power outage - the ONT doesn't cut one service over the other. Whatever service you have will stay on when power goes out and the ONT is powered from the battery. The problem with Internet or TV service is that the other pieces that make it work (Dlink and NIM) have no back up power. The thing to do is to put the Dlink router and VoIP box (and NIM if you want TV features) on a UPS - this way you'll still have phone when power goes out. A cellphone is always a good backup.

Interesting information on the QIP box in the HDTV Programming forum concerning lack of DD 5.1 on the QIP as an output from the coax or digital output when using the HDMI output to the TV. Will try to get Ken to move the discussion to this forum.

I thought I was just having problems with the Fios Internet, but finally, when my wife complained that the Fios TV was going out, I was able to determine that whenever I log in to the Rhapsody Music Service it knocks Fios TV out. Not sure why, it's just a streaming music service.

I understand that using an HDMI cable causes you to lose DD5.1 sound. But does anyone know if using a HDMI-DVI cable has the same effect?

I understand that using an HDMI cable causes you to lose DD5.1 sound. But does anyone know if using a HDMI-DVI cable has the same effect?

I believe it's even worse. You lose audio completely. DVI wasn't built with the audio channels in mind. You'd think they should have, considering the ease of installation and minimum connections required to each component.

I believe it's even worse. You lose audio completely. DVI wasn't built with the audio channels in mind. You'd think they should have, considering the ease of installation and minimum connections required to each component.

I understand that audio wouldn't be transmitted through the DVI-HDMI cable. I intended to run a digital audio cable in addition to this one. I just want to know if I'll have 5.1 this way.

I understand that audio wouldn't be transmitted through the DVI-HDMI cable. I intended to run a digital audio cable in addition to this one. I just want to know if I'll have 5.1 this way.

No. First, the DVI to HDMI would never pass the audio anyway. If it is HDMI to HDMI it does. However, the Motorola QIP64**, for whatever reason, does not allow you to pass DD5.1 ALSO on either PCM or Digital out at the same time as passing DD5.1 through the HDMI cable.

IF you have a receiver that can take HDMI inputs and act as a switcher, then your receiver should pick up the DD5.1 and process it properly. Now, whether or not it will continue from the receiver to the TV is another point entirely. Has anyone verified this?

I have some questions about FiOS's charges:

a) Will they pay the cost of your DirecTV service committment? (probably not, I would guess)

b) What are the costs of signing up? (Activation, Installation, Equipment)

c) What is the cost (startup and monthly) of a SD DVR?

I understand that using an HDMI cable causes you to lose DD5.1 sound. But does anyone know if using a HDMI-DVI cable has the same effect?

The problem is caused by the TV only accepting 2 channel audio over HDMI, the TV tells the STB to output PCM over HDMI which in turn forces all the digital outputs on the STB to PCM. The STB isn't designed to output PCM via HDMI and DD via out of it's optical or coaxial outputs at the same time. Since the DVI input on a TV will ignore audio, it probably won't force the STB to PCM.

Most TV's these days that have HDMI inputs can't accept more then two channels of audio, the TV makers don't bother with a HDMI chipset that can support anything over two channels since the TV only has two speakers.

One work around for HDMI to HDMI would be to use component connections instead...

Is this HDMI/5.1 audio problem exclusive to the 64** series? I just talked w/ a buddy at work and he has Comcast w/ a Moto box(don't know #) and he says he outputs both just fine. Guess I will have to go w/ component at the moment. Gonna be a bit of a pain, I have an "old" Samsung HLM617W w/ DVI, and I will have to do some input tweaking to get another component input to my liking. I was lazy and never did all inputs "back when".

SJKurtzke, don't know the answer to "a". But "b" is zero, and "c" is 12.95/month, no up front money.
edit: just saw you said "SD" DVR, I don't think they even offer one. the above price is for a HD model. Of course it will do both.

I'm not sure if anyone else has had this problem... it seems VERY strange to me.. After receiving an hdmi->dvi cable, I tried hooking it up and for some reason now the DVR STB doesn't output anything in hd?! Everything looks 480p, even previously recorded hd content...? When I tune into discovery HD or ESPN HD channel, the output is 4:3 from the STB rather than 16:9.

I was curious if anyone else has had this problem before? I switched back to component outputs and the problem seems that the STB is locked in at outputting SD signals only, no 16:9?! I haven't had much time to tinker w/ it, but I was trying to fix the problem w/o having to call verizon. I've turned it off to try and reset it but no luck. Any suggestions?? Thanks.

EDIT: I just swapped the HD stb upstairs to this tv and something definetly got screwed up/changed w/ the DVR STB, after using the hdmi input..? Very strange. Anyone have any idea? Is there a way to reset the STB besides just unplugging it? Thanks.

I have some questions about FiOS's charges:

a) Will they pay the cost of your DirecTV service committment? (probably not, I would guess)

b) What are the costs of signing up? (Activation, Installation, Equipment)

c) What is the cost (startup and monthly) of a SD DVR?

This question belongs in the master topic on Fios Programming, not hardware. Go to:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590208

One work around for HDMI to HDMI would be to use component connections instead...

That is.. if your component input looks as pristine as the HDMI input. Otherwise, look to upgrade your receiver or accept a lesser quality image. :(

I'm not sure if anyone else has had this problem... it seems VERY strange to me.. After receiving an hdmi->dvi cable, I tried hooking it up and for some reason now the DVR STB doesn't output anything in hd?! Everything looks 480p, even previously recorded hd content...? When I tune into discovery HD or ESPN HD channel, the output is 4:3 from the STB rather than 16:9.

I was curious if anyone else has had this problem before? I switched back to component outputs and the problem seems that the STB is locked in at outputting SD signals only, no 16:9?! I haven't had much time to tinker w/ it, but I was trying to fix the problem w/o having to call verizon. I've turned it off to try and reset it but no luck. Any suggestions?? Thanks.

EDIT: I just swapped the HD stb upstairs to this tv and something definetly got screwed up/changed w/ the DVR STB, after using the hdmi input..? Very strange. Anyone have any idea? Is there a way to reset the STB besides just unplugging it? Thanks.

Yes, you need to turn off your STB and then press the menu button. It'll turn on in setup mode. then you can adjust your settings for output and screen. Good luck! :)

I'm not sure if anyone else has had this problem... it seems VERY strange to me.. After receiving an hdmi->dvi cable, I tried hooking it up and for some reason now the DVR STB doesn't output anything in hd?! Everything looks 480p, even previously recorded hd content...? When I tune into discovery HD or ESPN HD channel, the output is 4:3 from the STB rather than 16:9.

I was curious if anyone else has had this problem before? I switched back to component outputs and the problem seems that the STB is locked in at outputting SD signals only, no 16:9?! I haven't had much time to tinker w/ it, but I was trying to fix the problem w/o having to call verizon. I've turned it off to try and reset it but no luck. Any suggestions?? Thanks.

EDIT: I just swapped the HD stb upstairs to this tv and something definetly got screwed up/changed w/ the DVR STB, after using the hdmi input..? Very strange. Anyone have any idea? Is there a way to reset the STB besides just unplugging it? Thanks.

I had the same problem, at least while I had the DVI-HDMI cable setup. As already suggested, the output resolution must be changed in the menu. The problem can also stem from the signal moving from 16:9 to 4:3. If the second item (override) on the menu is "on", and if the HD program is broadcast at an aspect ration of 4:3, the STB will output a SD signal to the TV. I noticed this mostly during the commercials.

QIP64XX - No Picture-in-Picture capabilities w/FIOS TV

As best I can tell PIP is not supported yet. Anyone have any idea why not and when it might be supported. ComCast DVR, which was a Motorola box, had great PIP; any ideas out there on why what or when.

Yes, you need to turn off your STB and then press the menu button. It'll turn on in setup mode. then you can adjust your settings for output and screen. Good luck! :)

This was EXACTLY the fix. Thank you VERY much!! :D It's a bit strange that it does this honestly, kind of stupid really. Maybe it was in the manual that I didn't read..? Either way thanks alot for the fix!

The problem is caused by the TV only accepting 2 channel audio over HDMI, the TV tells the STB to output PCM over HDMI which in turn forces all the digital outputs on the STB to PCM. The STB isn't designed to output PCM via HDMI and DD via out of it's optical or coaxial outputs at the same time. Since the DVI input on a TV will ignore audio, it probably won't force the STB to PCM.

Most TV's these days that have HDMI inputs can't accept more then two channels of audio, the TV makers don't bother with a HDMI chipset that can support anything over two channels since the TV only has two speakers.

One work around for HDMI to HDMI would be to use component connections instead...

My Samsung DLP TV has HDMI and DVI inputs. Unfortunately, connecting the 6416 with a HDMI/DVI cable yields the same result--the 6416 still only passes PCM. According to one poster on this forum, the QIP/DCT STBs are in compliance with the HDMI spec. If you have an AV receiver with HDMI switching you should get 5.1 audio. Still, there is apparently a firmware fix for this issue. I called Motorola technical support and they advised me that they have provided Verizon with the fix and to ask them for it. Verizon tech support did confirm that they have been provided with the fix and are currently testing it. No word on when it would be implemented. In my particular case, I am choosing to go with the improved PQ over HDMI and going with the PCM that my Yamaha AV receiver converts to PLII.

Hi all
Would anyone care to answer some of my questions please. I would be apprciated.

1. Does the box put out 1080i or 720p over component?
2. Can the box be purchase by choice or for rent only?
3. How many tv or room I can install?

This was EXACTLY the fix. Thank you VERY much!! :D It's a bit strange that it does this honestly, kind of stupid really. Maybe it was in the manual that I didn't read..? Either way thanks alot for the fix!

:cool:

Baipai, In response to your Q's:

1. Does the box put out 1080i or 720p over component? Variable
2. Can the box be purchase by choice or for rent only? Lease
3. How many tv or room I can install? whatever your pocketbook can handle

digital_dilemma

Thang you.

My Samsung DLP TV has HDMI and DVI inputs. Unfortunately, connecting the 6416 with a HDMI/DVI cable yields the same result--the 6416 still only passes PCM. According to one poster on this forum, the QIP/DCT STBs are in compliance with the HDMI spec. If you have an AV receiver with HDMI switching you should get 5.1 audio. Still, there is apparently a firmware fix for this issue. I called Motorola technical support and they advised me that they have provided Verizon with the fix and to ask them for it. Verizon tech support did confirm that they have been provided with the fix and are currently testing it. No word on when it would be implemented. In my particular case, I am choosing to go with the improved PQ over HDMI and going with the PCM that my Yamaha AV receiver converts to PLII.
Same situation here with a Sony GWIII. In my case I opted to go with the HDMI output since I have never gotten around to installing rear speakers anyway, and it should be a lot more apparent when they actually load this fix. Thanks for doing the legwork to verify that this is indeed on Verizon's radar.

My FiOS install is scheduled for tomorrow. I currently have a D* multiswitch in my attic connected to my D* dish. The ouputs of the multiswitch go to my three TVs (via the D* STBs). My plan is for the installers to put a splitter next to the multiswitch.

The issues are:

1) To get into my attic you need to climb up a step ladder and kind of 'pull' yourself up,
2) My attic does not have a floor and is extremely dusty.

I'm wondering if the installers will be willing to put the splitter where I want it (next to the multiswitch), or will they refuse and insist on an easier path?

Is this something I should do prior to them coming out tomorrow? If so, can anybody give me specifics on what kind of splitter the FiOS installers use so I can perhaps go out and buy one?

Also, should I run a coax (RG6) from the ONT location to the attic prior to installation, or should I let them do it?

My FiOS install is scheduled for tomorrow. I currently have a D* multiswitch in my attic connected to my D* dish. The ouputs of the multiswitch go to my three TVs (via the D* STBs). My plan is for the installers to put a splitter next to the multiswitch.

The issues are:

1) To get into my attic you need to climb up a step ladder and kind of 'pull' yourself up,
2) My attic does not have a floor and is extremely dusty.

I'm wondering if the installers will be willing to put the splitter where I want it (next to the multiswitch), or will they refuse and insist on an easier path?

Is this something I should do prior to them coming out tomorrow? If so, can anybody give me specifics on what kind of splitter the FiOS installers use so I can perhaps go out and buy one?

Also, should I run a coax (RG6) from the ONT location to the attic prior to installation, or should I let them do it?

Just being nosy, but, why does it matter? You are, in fact, getting rid of D*, right? You can't run D* and Fios on the same cable anyway.

They will do the run, so don't do it yourself. I don't know how they'll deal with the no floor thing, though. They may have orders not to straddle ceiling joists to keep from slipping and falling through the sheetrock or punching a hole in it with their foot.

My FiOS install is scheduled for tomorrow. I currently have a D* multiswitch in my attic connected to my D* dish. The ouputs of the multiswitch go to my three TVs (via the D* STBs). My plan is for the installers to put a splitter next to the multiswitch.

The issues are:

1) To get into my attic you need to climb up a step ladder and kind of 'pull' yourself up,
2) My attic does not have a floor and is extremely dusty.

I'm wondering if the installers will be willing to put the splitter where I want it (next to the multiswitch), or will they refuse and insist on an easier path?

Is this something I should do prior to them coming out tomorrow? If so, can anybody give me specifics on what kind of splitter the FiOS installers use so I can perhaps go out and buy one?

Also, should I run a coax (RG6) from the ONT location to the attic prior to installation, or should I let them do it?

Just being nosy, but, why does it matter? You are, in fact, getting rid of D*, right? You can't run D* and Fios on the same cable anyway.

They will do the run, so don't do it yourself. I don't know how they'll deal with the no floor thing, though. They may have orders not to straddle ceiling joists to keep from slipping and falling through the sheetrock or punching a hole in it with their foot.

Curious?

I just got FIOS TV, and I have never had a DVR or anything like it. I got the Moto qip6416-1 HD/DVR.

I have had a PC though, running Windows XP, with an HDTV Wonder from ATI. With it, I have been able to record programs and store them on my hard drive. Some of them I even encode to a divx file, then store them on my server over my wireless network so I can archive and view them at a later date. Now I understand this might be a touchy subject, but I am just asking out of ignorance.

With the qip6416-1, can I connect my PC to it to capture the HD or SD recordings? Simple question, probably not a simple answer.

TIA

With the qip6416-1, can I connect my PC to it to capture the HD or SD recordings? Simple question, probably not a simple answer.

TIA
In theory, yes, cause the equipment could probably do it, but in reality not until Verizon enables the DVR to do so.

Other threads have described being able to successfully record the local SD and HD stations over firewire to the PC, since these are not protected. You will need one of those HD video recorders with 5C encryption capability to capture the others, I believe, and it is possible that certain programming is protected even from this.

I will do a quick search and post an update if I find the thread I am thinking about....

Okay, the primary reference to firewire recording capability are over at dslreports.com on their FiOS fiber forum.

Here (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15027769?hilite=firewire) is a link to a thread that speaks to it directly.

There is also a sticky thread on firewire recording (IEEE 1394) at the top of the HD Recording forum on avsforums. I found a reference there to successful recording off of the 6416.

Thanks a lot for the reference. Looks like there are some major obstacles though. Are there any tutorials out there that explain how to capture the recording via the firewire to the pc?

I mean do you play the recorded program, then capture it? How do you do this?

What do they mean by national and the term 5c?

This looks like a Herculean task for those of us that want to archive anything not on the national channels? (NBC CBS....)

Am I right?

TIA

Just being nosy, but, why does it matter? You are, in fact, getting rid of D*, right? You can't run D* and Fios on the same cable anyway.

They will do the run, so don't do it yourself. I don't know how they'll deal with the no floor thing, though. They may have orders not to straddle ceiling joists to keep from slipping and falling through the sheetrock or punching a hole in it with their foot.

Well, I had my install on Wednesday. I posted the details here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7141284&&#post7141284) . Overall, I am pleased with FiOS. HD delivery is top-notch. SD is good, although not significantly better than D* (to my eye). Maybe I would see a bigger improvement with a larger TV. My two HD TVs are 30" and 23" respectively.

Update: I was able to do another comparison between D* SD and V* SD. The V* SD is more detailed. I detect less blockiness in the V* picture. I did the comparison over several SD channels and consistently, V* was less blocky. I was using the same TV (30") with D* using component video input and V* using HDMI->DVI input.

What do they mean by national and the term 5c?5C = DTCP and other DRM systems.

5C = 5 Companies ... Hitachi, Intel, Matsushita, Sony, and Toshiba ... which jointly produced the DTCP spec (and authorize other DRMs to interact / work with / share content with DTCP).

http://www.dtcp.com/data/wp_spec.pdf

I've read a lot about Verizon FiOS having a lot of bandwidth for TV but I haven't read how much they have. Has anybody done the calculations to determine:

1) How much bandwidth FiOS TV has
2) With existing programming, approximately how much bandwidth they have left?

It would be dependant on the Font end of the STB that FIOS is using. Cable companys have about 750 Mhz of BW to use, but are limited by the number of analog channels used and modulation (QAM64 or 'QAM256) for digital. Also Limited by cable loss, infrastructure equipment etc. FIOS on the other hand does have lots of available BW on the fiber, but may be using the exact same equipment. Depends on what and how the OTD does its job. IF it is already designed for greater then 750 Mhz then yes they can do lots more channels then cable. And since they are 100% digital and most likely doing QAM256 then they can fit lots more channels, then cable.

P

P is mostly correct. The RF portion of the optics FIOS is using is rated at 51 - 860 MHz, the same as the latest gear some cable companies are using. FIOS also does an analog tier, they reserve channels 2-49 for this from the line ups I have seen. With a set top I believe these analogs are simucast in digital. They are most likely using 256 QAM for all digitals, which could handle 12 SD channels or 2 HD channels of MPEG2 without further compression.

Up to this point FIOS would be equal to cable as far as bandwidth. What really gains more for them is the WDWM on the fiber for telephone and high speed data. On cable these services would be carried in the RF path taking up some of the 810 MHz of bandwidth. With FIOS multiplexing these on the fiber at different wavelegnths they do not take up any of the RF bandwidth. Significant advantage.

Hope this helped.

Up to this point FIOS would be equal to cable as far as bandwidth. What really gains more for them is the WDWM on the fiber for telephone and high speed data. On cable these services would be carried in the RF path taking up some of the 810 MHz of bandwidth. With FIOS multiplexing these on the fiber at different wavelegnths they do not take up any of the RF bandwidth. Significant advantage.

Hope this helped.

:confused: Let me re-phrase my question. Considering what Verizon FiOS TV is currently delivering (and the associated bandwidth they have used), how many more HD channels can they deliver and maintain their current "true" HD standard?

Dang! I worked hard on that explanation :cool:

134 channels in 860 MHz.
48 reserved for analog.
Leaves 86 for QAM 256. I've read 300+ channels total.
-48 Analog
-24 HD (Guess)
Leaves 228 SD digital.

Those 228 at 12 per would be 19 256 QAMs
24 HD at 2 per would be 12 QAMs

That would leave 53 QAMs open for HD or other SD.

Assumptions:

12/1 A/D compression - worst case
NO VOD streams on QAM, all delivered via IP - doubtful
All 256 QAM - probable

Is that better? :D

Dang! I worked hard on that explanation :cool:

134 channels in 860 MHz.
48 reserved for analog.
Leaves 86 for QAM 256. I've read 300+ channels total.
-48 Analog
-24 HD (Guess)
Leaves 228 SD digital.

Those 228 at 12 per would be 19 256 QAMs
24 HD at 2 per would be 12 QAMs

That would leave 53 QAMs open for HD or other SD.

Assumptions:

12/1 A/D compression - worst case
NO VOD streams on QAM, all delivered via IP - doubtful
All 256 QAM - probable

Is that better? :D

Much better :D ...I think...

What I gleen from the above is Verizon has around 53 QAMs open and you can fit 2 HD Channels per QAM, therefore (with my limited math ability) they can fit approximately another 106 HD channels, correct?

Thank you for the explanation. Also, am I correct in assuming that quite a bit of bandwidth can be saved by eventually eliminating the 48 (wasted, at least in my mind :) ) analog locals?

Based on the above assumptions, correct.

Well, got my install yesterday(fri 2/17), the Fiber was run to the house on wednesday. It was a looonnng install. Guys(2) got here @1:30pm, they left at 10pm, w/o my boxes(2 dvr's) being running. The last 1.5 hrs was just waiting for the init d/l's, which didn't come. I let them go home assuming overnight finish, which did happen.

I got the "triple play"(phone/data/tv). The first 2-3 hrs was getting the ONT, primary cat5 and coax run to my office(other side of house). My attic is a real bear, my hat's off to these guys for running everything inside. I warned 'em about it, an when he came down he let me know how "right" I was about my attic, no floor and "real" low.

Then it was about 1/2hr spent getting a dialtone. Turned out to be bad oxidation on my outside wires.

Internet came right up. My Linksys is daisychained behind their D-link, w/ their radio turned off. Just rebooted my Linksys for newIP and was good to go.

Then came tv. They got a little agressive in disconnecting cables in attic, lost my DISH, and OTA antenna. They worked for about an hour getting "what I had" back. The rest of the time was getting boxes in place and hooked up.

I have hdmi->dvi cable on Samsung 61" DLP. Do not get 5.1 out of my optical connect to receiver, hope they get this fixed. I have hdmi to 42" Sony lcd RP in bedroom, works fine.

Have 1 weird issue yet. The box on DLP is "missing" 3 local HD's(Fox/CBS/UPN), I can switch to them, but no pic shows up. Yet they show up on my bedroom box. Called and they tried resetting the box multiple times with no result. They are going to bring me a new box on monday.

PQ - SD channels are noticably better than DISH, this alone makes it worthwhile. HD is good, better than DISH HD, but not quite as good as OTA, IMO, but real close.

Haven't played with it too much yet, my first DVR, gonna be fun messing w/ it. One gripe, I think the remote blows. Tiny little buttons, not well layed out. My brothers Comcast remote is better(also works most of my boxes functions). Oh well.

Overall, pretty pleased so far.

It was a looonnng install. Guys(2) got here @1:30pm, they left at 10pm, w/o my boxes(2 dvr's) being running.
I don't understand this at all. How can Verizon make any money after spending 16+ man-hours hooking you up? Eventually they will have to do much much better than that.

I don't understand this at all. How can Verizon make any money after spending 16+ man-hours hooking you up? Eventually they will have to do much much better than that.
Yes it is a big gamble on Verizon's part - they bank on the fact that most people are too lazy to change providers and like the "package" deal from a single provider.

They hope to grab exactly people like mcduff - all 3 major services, TV/data/phone. At $100+/mo/household they'll get the money invested in these installs back within a couple of years.

The cable companies invested the same way when they installed all that coax in every neighborhood many years ago. I hope they got their money back cause the competition from Verizon will make them lose their profit margin.

I asked the guy if my install will become water cooler talk. :)

He said they are supposed to average 3 installs/day, less when doing triple plays. Also said they are working 60hr weeks, so demand is big. As far as I'm concerned, E* & D* better be real worried too, I've been a E* customer for a decade, but they are losing me.

Biker19 is right, monthly long term customers is where it's at. In my case, they already had my phone and data(DSL), so payback from just tv won't be real rapid. But as long as they treat me right, I'll hang w/ 'em. As noticed w/ my E* service, I tend to hang around as long as you do that, but E* is farking up so adios. But I kept my sat wiring and OTA cable in place, so I can keep my options open.

It is a huge infrastructure cost, figure in the 2man crew that also had to lay the cable to my house, and of course the diggin crews for the main trunks everywhere. whew big $$$.

*had an interruption to this post*

Doorbell rang at 10am, another Verizon tech showed up, said "I'm here for your trouble ticket."(followed shortly by a 2nd guy) Dang, wasn't expecting anybody til monday. They tried a new box, no improvement on the missing HD locals. They wound up having to run a new coax down the wall, the old one just wasn't cutting it. But this was after spending lots of time with phone support trying everything. So add ~5 more manhours to my install.

Am happy to say that everything is now running as expected. I have to say; ALL Verizon techs that I have interfaced with, from the outside ground crew, both sets of inside, to phone support, have been very courteous, knowledgable and professional(the orig install guy even called today, his day off, to make sure everything was ok). Good job guys, keep it up and you will have me for a longhaul.

My FIOS was installed on Monday, the 13th (after a six week wait!). The technicians arrived at 9am and were finished by noon. The fact that my Verizon internet & phone service was already setup and running no doubt speeded the installation.

I replaced the DISH network service to 1 SD television and am adding HD/DVR to my Sony HS10 projector in the Home Theater. Verizon SD reception is marginally better than DISH, probably because I am now using component connections vs. the S video output of the Dish receiver, but the programming guide is nicer. The FIOS remote control is an non-backlit ergonomic disaster. HD in the theater (via the component outputs projected onto a 100" diag. screen) is OK but not quite as good as my Samsung OTA receiver (which was sold on Ebay). HD Net is great, as is HD Discovery. The DVR is easy and fun to use, but with only 160gb of memory, it is too small for very much HD recording (about 25 hrs. max).

Overall, I am very pleased with the quality of both the FIOS product and their service.

It's weird, my 2 dvr's are out of sync. If I am in hall between them, I can hear about a 4-5 second lag between them. They are both in sync to themselves(audio/video). I talked to the phone tech, who called yesterday to once again verify that everything is working ok, and he said that is normal since they are "recording" in realtime, there can be differences in the boxes. He says all newbies to dvr's wonder about this.

Just a little weird for me since they are relatively close together. But no biggie.

I think the phone tech was implying that on one of the DVRs, you must have 're-wound' 4-5 seconds. In other words, if you hit "Live TV" on each remote, they should be back in-synch as they will be in 'real-time'.

If he wasn't implying this, then I think he is full of $hit :D

I thought I was just having problems with the Fios Internet, but finally, when my wife complained that the Fios TV was going out, I was able to determine that whenever I log in to the Rhapsody Music Service it knocks Fios TV out. Not sure why, it's just a streaming music service.

I have experienced lost connectivity in my Lan (all systems) when and only when I connect to Rhapsody. This started when I had FIOS installed a few days ago. I use the wireless D-Link router that was installed with the FIOS. I had no trouble with Comcast. Any ideas?

The techs just left after an easy install for them.

After showing up almost 3 hrs into their appointment window, they finished the wiring part of the install in about 1 hr. Another 1/2 hr later both the DVR and STB were up and running. They were professional and neat about the job - although not necessarily the most knowledgeable - they had no news about the planned networking of boxes later this year.

Happy for far with the service.

Cable-pricing relief for Va. could be on way
House to vote today on a bill identical to one that the Senate passed yesterday
BY JEFFREY KELLEY
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER
Friday, February 24, 2006



Sharon Holman says she has a hard time affording her cable bills. Prices for Holman and thousands of other tube-watching Virginians could drop and service could improve with a bill meant to spawn cable competition.
DON LONG/TIMES-DISPATCH
Sharon Holman has nothing bad to say about her cable television service, except . . .

"I can't afford it, to be honest with you," said Holman, a Richmond resident who pays "half here, half there" on her cable bills. Still, she wants the digital channels and Internet connection of cable.

Prices for Holman and thousands of other tube-watching Virginians could drop and service could improve with a bill meant to spawn cable competition. Today, the House will vote on a bill identical to the one the Senate passed yesterday.

The bills come as Verizon Communications Inc. lays a fiber-optic network throughout parts of the state. The system will allow the telecommunications company to provide video services and compete directly with cable firms such as Comcast Corp.

Verizon backed a bill last year to help it provide video faster than state regulations allow, a move opposed by the cable industry in Virginia. The two sides met for a year and attempted to hammer out an agreed-upon bill.

That didn't happen, and lawmakers settled the differences with compromise legislation that neither side fully embraces nor abhors. Local governments then said the bill needed more municipal and consumer protections, and a few changes were made.

The latest compromise comes at the expense of some control from local governments, fairness among all providers of cable TV and the need for a larger investment from a company wanting to provide TV, such as Verizon.


Verizon's main gripe with the legislation is that it must build out its network to cover at least 65 percent of a locality within seven years. Over time, a city or county can ask the company to serve up to 80 percent of residents.

Verizon Virginia preferred to build its network at a pace it preferred. Company President Robert W. Woltz Jr. yesterday called the build-out commitment a "competitive barrier to entry" -- however, he is quick not to complain about the compromise.

Without being required to serve most of the residents in a municipality, as the cable industry has been for years, many argued that Verizon could skip over poor areas. Verizon denied the claim, and the new bills would prohibit the already illegal practice known as redlining.

Verizon has complained that the traditional practice of gaining "franchise agreements" from every locality it wants to plug into video takes too long at six to 18 months. The bills would allow Verizon and others to strike deals with localities in as little as 75 days.

That prospect worries Del. A. Donald McEachin, D-Henrico, who said yesterday that local governments could lose negotiating power to new cable companies.

Local governments also wanted more public-, educational- and government-access channels, because unknown future needs might require additional stations, said Linda Robinson, Henrico County's legislative liaison. The bills would give localities up to three more channels, with a cap at seven stations.

Cable operators can shut off underused public channels, but the bills would ensure that older stations can't get removed.

Under the bill, if a Virginia locality has at least two cable contracts created a year before July 1, the deals remain.

For instance, in September, Verizon gained a video contract in Fairfax County, where the existing TV provider is Cox Communications Inc. Under the deal, Verizon must serve 85 percent of the county within seven years, and Fairfax -- as well as four other Virginia localities with which the company has garnered deals -- would be unaffected by the legislation until the contract expires.

Verizon is building its network in Richmond and the counties of Henrico and Chesterfield, as well as areas in Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia.

Virginia Cable Telecommunications Association President Ray LaMura said yesterday that the legislation would make for "a level playing field [that] will enable customers to make the choices, and we look forward to competing."


Contact staff writer Jeffrey Kelley at jkelley@timesdispatch.com or (804) 649-6348.

...
Sharon Holman says she has a hard time affording her cable bills. Prices for Holman and thousands of other tube-watching Virginians could drop and service could improve with a bill meant to spawn cable competition.

"I can't afford it, to be honest with you," said Holman, a Richmond resident who pays "half here, half there" on her cable bills. Still, she wants the digital channels and Internet connection of cable.
....


Since when did affordable cable become a right that requires government legislature to ensure?

This is the only country in the world where you can officially listed as being below the poverty line yet still have cable TV. :rolleyes:

sad but true point biker.

but the issue isn't a "right" but a desirable privledge(i.e. TV services) which local govt. can use to generate revenue & exercise power. this is probably why cable TV has been treated like a public utility & is a locally regulated monopoly-until now.
choice is still limited-if you don't have access to Vz fiber or can't put up a sat. dish you're stuck with cable for now.
for those not familiar with Va. municipalities are often totally independent of neighboring counties-this can be true even if the city is totally within the territory of a single county. Hampton Roads, for example, is a generic reference to an area with 6 large cities & 2 suburban counties-8 seperate local govs. Verizon or any other cable competitor has to deal with. IMO it's evident why local control is a big issue in the current Va. bill & why Verizon wants to at least streamline the process.

jim

Thought this might be of interest -

http://www.convergedigest.com/DSL/lastmilearticle.asp?ID=17505

Verizon Sees FTTP Connection Costs at $715 in 2006, Down from $1,200
Speaking at an investors' conference in New York, Verizon's Vice Chairman and President Lawrence T. Babbio Jr. said the company has targeted costs of $890 in 2006 to pass a home or business with FTTP. This cost, which includes a blend of aerial and underground deployment, had averaged $1,400 at the start of 2005. Babbio said that at the beginning of 2005 Verizon's fiber network was passing an average of 100,000 premises per month, and by the end of the year it was passing an average of 235,000 premises per month, as the deployment ramped up to its current and ongoing run rate.

As the network deployment continues to scale up, the same trend applies to costs to connect a premises, Babbio noted. In January 2005 Verizon's connection costs averaged $1,200, and the goal in 2006 is $715.

Some other highlights of the presentation:

Verizon expects the new fiber network to dramatically reduce the costs in outside plant maintenance by at least 40% , with opportunities for further cost reductions in the future.
Most new FiOS data customers are migrating from dial-up services or are switching from cable offerings.
Churn rates for FiOS data customers are below churn rates for other broadband customers.
Verizon expects to build out a network capable of delivering new FiOS TV services to a total of from 3 million to 4 million premises by year-end 2006.
In its first 60 days, Verizon Business has begun migrating off-network voice and Internet protocol traffic on to Verizon's networks, generating cost synergies.
Regarding the previously announced workforce reduction in Verizon Business of 7,000 employees over three years, approximately 3,500 of those reductions will occur in 2006, on a base of 35,000 employees.

http://www.verizon.com
28-Feb-06

At $1000 per connection it will take quite some time to get their money back - of course with a low turnover rate and some decent customer support, they can.

I just found out that I am able to get FIOS tv. I already have their 15/2 internet and like it.
Is it possible to buy an HD or SD cable box that will work with fios instead of paying them either $4 or $12 a month?

I just found out that I am able to get FIOS tv. I already have their 15/2 internet and like it.
Is it possible to buy an HD or SD cable box that will work with fios instead of paying them either $4 or $12 a month?
Not yet. V* is supposed to come out with cablecards in a few months that will make this possible (including using a Series 3 TiVo). I don't know how this works with such features as VOD, but will likely research it some more when the time comes.

You should love FiOS TV. Wonderful PQ. Lots of potential for more and more HD programming, which I hope to see soon. We have had D* for a long time so even the limited VOD on FiOS is fun for us.

I just found out that I am able to get FIOS tv. I already have their 15/2 internet and like it.
Is it possible to buy an HD or SD cable box that will work with fios instead of paying them either $4 or $12 a month?
Big Al,

Where in Tampa are you? I'm in Hyde park but I had not heard that Fios TV was available yet.

Cam

Big Al,

Where in Tampa are you? I'm in Hyde park but I had not heard that Fios TV was available yet.

Cam

I am out in Valrico so I am really in unincorporated hillsborough county. I read in I think monday or tuesday tampa tribrune in the bussiness section that they openned up for TV the day before, so I went I went to the FIOSTV website and put in my phone number.

Just recently (last two months) got the H-20 and 5 LNB set up with D***TV. The audio being out of sync on the local channels is driving me crazy. Any idea what D***TV will try to charge me for cancelling (I think there was a two year commitment)?

Just recently (last two months) got the H-20 and 5 LNB set up with D***TV. The audio being out of sync on the local channels is driving me crazy. Any idea what D***TV will try to charge me for cancelling (I think there was a two year commitment)?
Might have a better chance getting an answer in a D* thread. ;)

Of interest:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6315188.html?display=Breaking+News

Pledge IPTV Box Interoperability


By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 3/10/2006 2:59:00 PM

AT&T, BellSouth, Verizon, and CEA are pledging that their various set-top or other IPTV interface devices will be interoperable.

In essence that means that a box that works on a Verizon system could work on an AT&T system. It also means that others could make boxes that work with the systems.

AT&T is aiming to go the IPTV route with its LightSpeed video service, and is also planning to merger with BellSouth if the government powers that be OK the deal, as they are expected to do.

Verizon is going the TV route with its fiber video service, though it's set-top is IP-based, as is VOD functionality, and it could develop IPTV services going forward.


At CEA's "Entertainment Technology Policy Summit" March 15 in Washington, the companies plan to unveil "principles to ensure the preservation of commercial availability of devices connecting to internet protocol (IP) enabled video service provider networks," which also means a retail market for the devices.

The FCC has attempted to create a stronger retail market for cable set-tops by separating out the surfing and security functions.

I have experienced lost connectivity in my Lan (all systems) when and only when I connect to Rhapsody. This started when I had FIOS installed a few days ago. I use the wireless D-Link router that was installed with the FIOS. I had no trouble with Comcast. Any ideas?

No, just listen to other sources.

It just occured to me after having FiOS TV for a couple of weeks - wouldn't I still have an Internet connection if I cancel the Internet portion of the service? FiOS TV VOD depends on an Internet connection so in order to have FiOS VOD, Verizon must have some IP connectivity.

This is somewhat similar to getting some free TV channels when you order Internet only service from a cable company.

Of Interest:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6048162.html

Makes it sound like Verizon is thinking of putting a Moca bridge in the ONT ... which would let them use coax only into the house ... eliminating the need for running Cat5 into the house (and I guess the NIM) ... reducing the cost-per-install.

Of Interest:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6048162.html

Makes it sound like Verizon is thinking of putting a Moca bridge in the ONT ... which would let them use coax only into the house ... eliminating the need for running Cat5 into the house (and I guess the NIM) ... reducing the cost-per-install.
I thought this was obvious and something they've been working on for a while. I guess the issue is having Verizon lean on its ONT supplier to make this available. It wouldn't save them a whole lot on the IP side since they only supply one CAT5 to the nearest PC with every install. And if they relied on the built in coax to deliver the IP traffic around the house, they would need a NIM like device by every PC - granted in some cases this would be cheaper than the labor of running the CAT5.

It just occured to me after having FiOS TV for a couple of weeks - wouldn't I still have an Internet connection if I cancel the Internet portion of the service? FiOS TV VOD depends on an Internet connection so in order to have FiOS VOD, Verizon must have some IP connectivity.

This is somewhat similar to getting some free TV channels when you order Internet only service from a cable company.


Don't count on it. The VOD comes from their own internal servers. They could certainly cut off the connection to the outside world.

Don't count on it. The VOD comes from their own internal servers. They could certainly cut off the connection to the outside world.
Yeah, didn't think of it that way. I thought the only thing they might do is restrict something in the Dlink router on the premises.

I thought this was obvious and something they've been working on for a while. I guess the issue is having Verizon lean on its ONT supplier to make this available. It wouldn't save them a whole lot on the IP side since they only supply one CAT5 to the nearest PC with every install. And if they relied on the built in coax to deliver the IP traffic around the house, they would need a NIM like device by every PC - granted in some cases this would be cheaper than the labor of running the CAT5.
I am a bit confused by this response. IP traffic is already carried over coax between the NIM and the STBs/DRVs. This is the whole point of the MoCA technology.

Currently V* has to provide four things to make FiOS TV work: 1) the ONT to handle the fiber, with distribution of regular QAM cable over coax and IP over Cat5 (plus phone, of course), 2) a customized router to handle higher bandwidth over IP (and perhaps even to segment the bandwidth for internet vs. guide/VOD), 3) the NIM to take IP off of the router connection and convert it into IP over coax, running to the STBs/DVRs, 4) MoCA STBs/DVRs that can handle all of this.

With a new ONT two of those items disappear. In fact, if you didn't have FiOS internet you wouldn't need a router at all. A single coax connection to the ONT would suffice to connect everything in your home's "coax network". It also opens the door to move the whole business to pure IPTV at some point.

From V*'s point of view this would mean somewhat cheaper installs (don't need to worry about the ethernet or configuring additional equipment), and cheaper maintenance over time (again, with less boxes). It also eliminates a current risk they have that the homeowner will log into the DLink router and screw up the cconfiguration.

I have been told by an inside source that this equipment change is also supposed to clear up some issues with the service, but I have no idea which ones. I also don't know if this perhaps might be a precondition for V* rolling out additional features. We shall see.

The one thing he did say was that they weren't planning on upgrading existing installations, which makes me think this is primarily a cost-of-service issue. He said that you will have to complain about difficulties with the VOD service to qualify for an upgrade otherwise.

A lot of speculation at this point; but that is one reason we all like to browse this forum, isn't it?

I have been told by an inside source that this equipment change is also supposed to clear up some issues with the service, but I have no idea which ones. I also don't know if this perhaps might be a precondition for V* rolling out additional features. We shall see.
(...)
A lot of speculation at this point; but that is one reason we all like to browse this forum, isn't it?True ...

Anyway, my take is that indeed there's lots of little issues / upgrades that they are looking to roll into a new standardized ONT. And instead of having lots of little changes and non-standardized equipment the Verizon (and telco) way is to try to roll all these changes up together and stay more standardized.

Some (speculative) things to look for in a new ONT ...
- GPON (easier support for MDUs and lower cost of laying fiber in other areas)
- Built in MOCA bridge (to reduce cost of install and reduce support / maintenance issues)
- QPSK modulator / demodulator and potential QAM modulator (to support CableCard installs)

Anyway, one of their biggest costs for new installs right now is running the Cat5 into the house so ... the built in bridge makes alot of sense.

Anyway, one of their biggest costs for new installs right now is running the Cat5 into the house so ... the built in bridge makes alot of sense.
I would think the biggest cost would be Verizon paying the folks to dig the trench and lay the fiber from the street to the house.

Even tho both were simple in my case, they still spent more time/money on my TV service than my Internet service. I'd venture to guess they spend more money on installing coax than CAT5.

The one thing he did say was that they weren't planning on upgrading existing installations, which makes me think this is primarily a cost-of-service issue. He said that you will have to complain about difficulties with the VOD service to qualify for an upgrade otherwise.

So if I want the new ONT, I have to complain about difficulties with the VOD service? That's ridiculous!

So if I want the new ONT, I have to complain about difficulties with the VOD service? That's ridiculous!Well if the only two immediate things a new ONT addresses are:
1) reducing cost of initial install
2) VOD reliability (by reducing splitters and potential coax problems between bridge and STB)

Well ... I wouldn't call it ridiculous at all.

Should Verizon go to the cost of replacing your ONT when it wouldn't provide you (or Verizon) any benefit? That would be ridiculous.

The elimination of the NIM would be a large benefit to me.

The installers provided me with a four output splitter. I am using all of those outputs and one of those outputs runs into the NIM. If the upgraded ONT allows me to remove the NIM, I could use that output from the splitter to introduce another STB at the current location of the NIM.

I am aware I could replace the splitter (with one with more outputs) and run yet another coax but personally I'd rather not. Sorry, I don't consider this a ridiculous request. Why should the early subscribers to FiOS TV be stuck with outdated hardware that requires more wiring?

I am aware I could replace the splitter (with one with more outputs) and run yet another coax but personally I'd rather not.Put a two-way splitter where the NIM currently is and run one output to the NIM and another to the (new) STB. No new coax runs required ...

The only problem would be if MOCA had a problem jumping the new splitter ... which would show up as a problem with VOD ... in which case ...Why should the early subscribers to FiOS TV be stuck with outdated hardware that requires more wiring?The only wiring runs that the bridge at the ONT eliminates the need for is the Cat5 from the ONT to your router. That's it. And you've already got it.

Hi,

Hope I'm posting in the right place. It's been a few years for me since I've been here this place has grown.

I have a Mitsubishi 60 inch 60805?. 4x3 hd ready set. I've had a dish 6000 with off air tuner for over 4 years. I wanted to get the new DISH HD DVR. I refused to pay $299 to lease my equipment and pay more. So I thought, I'll try FIOS for a year, then go back if they get their act together at dish. So last week I had FIOS installed for internet and TV in Flower Mound, TX. I thought I would share my experience. If this is the wrong place sorry.

Installation: Took 6 hours even though I was fully wired everywhere. I kept my off air antenna (Stealth) for 2 TVs and had 1 TV (normal added to fios TV) and 1 HDTV mentioned before with the HD DVR added. The put the battery backup in the garage. The guy that installed was slow but very professional and thorough. I was surprised without telling him he knew how to hook everything up.

HD Quality: TBS, HDNET, ESPN look loads better not sure why but it's noticable. I did suffer artifacting on 1 night, but it has not come back.

SD Quality: They local digitals look the same. What I would call the local analog stations appear lower quality, 4,5,8,11,21. Switching to the 800 level hd/sd channels appear to have the same quality. The quality of USA, TNT is about the same to me or slightly better.

Intranet: Faster than my comcast cable modem even thought I went 5/2. Also about 34.95 instead of +$50 per month for the first year.

Programming: For 39.95 I'm getting basically the HD pack + Dish TOP 180 minus the NFL network. I miss the NFL network. To get it I have to subscribe to the "Sports Pack". I had dish top 120 + HD pack before.

DVR: I'm still a DVR idiot and just learning. It appears to suite my needs for now though seems like the hard drive could be bigger.

Additional Pluses: With the 6000, I had to change the TV input and the receiver when going back and forth between SD and HD. I guess the 6000 only output 1080i on hd. So the switching between the HD and SD is seemless now .

Also, channel changing is faster.

More programming

Better HD quality

Cost I pay less for more

Video on Demand: VOD I can view stuff I forgot to program or look at it. Decide if I like it then watch it. Lot's of it is free.

Minuses:
1). The remote for the DVR is slightly small as far as button size
2). The guide doesn't have built in all channels, All Sub, and only 1 favorite list that is not part of the guide. I really hate this.l
3). When viewing 4X3 digital content, either there is not way or I'm too stupid to fill the whole screen of my 4x3 TV. With 6000 you press the * key for the receiver to switch. I tried the aspect and the remote but nothing happens. THis is also a big minus for me. Anyone can help here?

You know, it's funny that the pace of questions and info about FiOS Tv has remained about the same for a long while now.

I had thoughts that as week-by-week more people are offered FiOS High Speed Internet and more areas can get FiOS Tv, the threads here and in HDTV Programming would have become much more active ? Are they not promoting this as much ? Are they counting on simple News Releases to provide drip by drip advertising ?

Multichannel News article says Verizon adding features ...
Multiroom DVR - summer
Photos / music from PCs - summer
Text-based local weather and traffic information - spring

Articles:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6317009.html?display=Breaking+News
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6317091.html?display=Top+Stories

You know, it's funny that the pace of questions and info about FiOS Tv has remained about the same for a long while now.

I had thoughts that as week-by-week more people are offered FiOS High Speed Internet and more areas can get FiOS Tv, the threads here and in HDTV Programming would have become much more active ? Are they not promoting this as much ? Are they counting on simple News Releases to provide drip by drip advertising ?
They don't want to promote it - they are already running full tilt with current installs. Once the pace of installs slows then they might advertise - but it's just not needed now.

Multichannel News article says Verizon adding features ...
Multiroom DVR - summer
Photos / music from PCs - summer
Text-based local weather and traffic information - spring

Articles:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6317009.html?display=Breaking+News
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6317091.html?display=Top+Stories
I'm not sure this is any better confirmation of the rumors about these features we've heard before. The photo/music is a new one tho.... :cool:

I found out today that I can get the internet and TV service and am considering leaving Cox to save some money and get a better pic quality.

How fast is the channel changing on the FIOS TV Service and the speed of menues? My Cox service is kind of slow, which ultimately is annoying. Anyone going from Cox to FIOS? How is the pic quality? Better or worse?

They don't want to promote it - they are already running full tilt with current installs. Once the pace of installs slows then they might advertise - but it's just not needed now.

There may be a little more to it than that. There isn't enough techs to do the installs that would probably pour in if they advertised. The only ads iv'e seen in South Jersey are pizza boxes in an area where they havent even thought about fios, on the back of supervisors trucks and the smear campaign commercials paid for by the cable cos.

I'm not sure this is any better confirmation of the rumors about these features we've heard before.No, it isn't.

First time I've heard more concrete dates and features attributed to Strickland though. He's always demoing cool things that Verizon may (or may not) deploy at some point in the unspecified future ... and usually very careful not get into specific features / timeframes though (or anything that could be quoted / reported as such).

We shall see.

I found out today that I can get the internet and TV service and am considering leaving Cox to save some money and get a better pic quality.

How fast is the channel changing on the FIOS TV Service and the speed of menues? My Cox service is kind of slow, which ultimately is annoying. Anyone going from Cox to FIOS? How is the pic quality? Better or worse?It is good to see a Cox subscriber posting here. Most FiOS subs, it seems, at least the ones who post here, are former DirecTV subs. Hopefully you can get some feedback from ex-Cox subs. I can tell you that the channel changing and speed of menus is very responsive. I certainly wouldn't characterize it as slow. The remote takes some getting used to and for best results you need to have a direct line of sight from the remote to the set top box. I would definitely recommend the DVR over the HD set top box for only $3 a month more. As for picture quality, compared to DirecTV, FiOS blows it away. Of course that's no surprise with the finite capacity D* has and the seemingly ever increasing number of channels. I would love to hear some comparisons of PQ between FiOS and Cox. As far as Internet, the quality and reliability are simply unsurpassed. I have had FiOS Internet for over 9 months and have had to my knowledge one 10-minute outage. And I am on the Internet quite a bit. Any savings you get from one service to the other will be gravy. I pay $45 a month for 15/2 Internet and around $100 a month for TV with two DVRs, one standard definition set top box and get all the movie channels except Cinemax. I can't believe Verizon's customer service would not be better than Cox's, also. Just more gravy. I should tell you that for HD sports, FiOS is still a little light. One advantage they have over Cox is ESPN2's HD channel. But Cox has InHD1 and 2, currently not available on FiOS. Also because of the stranglehold that InDemand has on the professional sports subscriptions, you can't presently get those on FiOS either. Hopefully FiOS will soon be adding Comcast SportsNet's HD feed. Both FiOS and Cox have MASN if you want to watch Nationals games.High Definition (HD) Services

- Customers will need an HDTV-capable or HDTV-ready
set and an HDTV receiver from Cox to receive HDTV.
- Customers must also subscribe to Cox Digital Cable.
- Some televisions sold previously as HD sets only feature
a 720 signal. These sets aren't compatible with Cox's
HDTV service, which requires a 1080i signal.I pulled the above quote off Cox's website (http://www.cox.com/fairfax/rates.asp). Is this for real, particularly the last sentence? What on earth are they talking about? With statements like this, no wonder there is so much FUD about HDTV.

Even if you don't switch, at least you should call Cox and ask for a discount - couch it by saying you are thinking of switching to FiOS. I'm sure they've gotten many such calls already and are probably ready to offer quite a few incentives.

I pulled the above quote off Cox's website (http://www.cox.com/fairfax/rates.asp). Is this for real, particularly the last sentence?No ... it used to be when Cox only deployed the SciAtl 3100HD. The 3100HD didn't provide/support 720p output. It would ONLY output 1080i via component ... and it would automatically convert 720p -> 1080i. But if you had a set that would only accept 720p input ... the 3100HD wouldn't provide any HD.

Cox has now upgraded to the 3250HD (and later boxes) ... the 1080i-only requirement no longer applies.

Even if you don't switch, at least you should call Cox and ask for a discount - couch it by saying you are thinking of switching to FiOS. I'm sure they've gotten many such calls already and are probably ready to offer quite a few incentives.Hey, it's deja vu all over again.With all the promotions going on now I bet you could lower your Cox bill down to $100 just by asking. They are losing many folks like yourself to FIOS. The nice thing about Cox and FIOS is that once all the infrastructure is in place for both you could switch between the two at any time (unlike satelite where you have long term contracts and equipment to buy).That was a response you made to poster croorc last month who was scheduled to switch to FiOS TV on February 21. Unfortunately, he hasn't bothered to post any followup. Well, maybe someday someone will actually switch and let us know what, if any, difference there is in PQ. I'd be shocked if Cox were losing much business to Verizon at this point, given the low publicity for FiOS TV.

How are the On Demand services? Do they have HDTV ondemand? Cox has one or two titles that are out on DVD on deman for 5 bucks. Is there more with FIOS?

I live in Howard County Maryland. I saw contractors installing the overhead fiber lines near my house today.....that means fios is coming to town.

i am going to be upgrading my dsl to the fios internet and cancelling my dish network to go with the verizon extended basic package.

the only negative so far is that verizon does not offer any pakistani/urdu programming. that means i will have to stick with dish for like three channels.

how will that work? (dish reciever and verizon box together)

fog80: I am not sure how u shall be able to combine the programming of the two services since I am presuming you would like to use the internal cable wiring for verizon FIOS TV to your TV. Maybe someone veteran out here can provide some ideas. I am curious as well since I subscribe to International Programming as well

fog80: I am not sure how u shall be able to combine the programming of the two services since I am presuming you would like to use the internal cable wiring for verizon FIOS TV to your TV. Maybe someone veteran out here can provide some ideas. I am curious as well since I subscribe to International Programming as well

i dont have any internal wiring. my dual dish reciever is in an upstairs bedroom and the dish guy ran the coax right through the wall into the room.

the coax enters the house on the ground floor through the wall as well. I am hoping that verizon can just run their own cable side by side with the dish coax.

I'd be shocked if Cox were losing much business to Verizon at this point, given the low publicity for FiOS TV.
They might not be losing the general public, but of the folks that know about FiOS, I'd bet there are fair number that are/will switch.

I switched from Cox Cable TV and Internet to Verzion Fios TV and Internet and so far I have been very satisfied. The package is cheaper than Cox (same premium channels) and I think that overall, the picture quality is better with Verizon. My wife commented to me that she thought the HD broadcasts looked better on Verizon.

In my opinion, HDNet is much better than InHD, at least as far as movie offerings are concerned. The PVR box is much better than Cox's PVR box. For example, Cox's fast forwarding, even at the fastest level, is excruciatingly slow. Not so with Verizon. FIOS's PVR menu is superior also--more intuitive and program/episode searches are more robust.

The only downside--it took two days for the entire install. Two installers on day one (about 10:30 am to 6:30 pm), then one installer on day two (3:00 pm to about 6:00 pm). Part of the problem was that my TV install was only the second one done by the Verizon installer (both installers were verizon employees, not contractors, and no digging in my yard occured). Install was on Feb 22-23.

I contacted Cox before Verizon did the install and notified them that I was thinking of switching to Verizon. The best deal Cox would give me was half-price internet for three months, then afterwards back to the normal fee.

So far, I am very impressed with FIOS, and I would not go back to Cox. I must admit, however, that Cox's customer service had, in my opinion, been very good over the past few years, and the internet connection has been solid. Time will tell with Verizon.

--croorc

Well, maybe someday someone will actually switch and let us know what, if any, difference there is in PQ. I'd be shocked if Cox were losing much business to Verizon at this point, given the low publicity for FiOS TV.

Well, they're about to lose one in Falls Church/Annandale. I'll let you know next week. Had the FIOS 15/2 data package since last October and I'm switching from Cox to FIOS TV next Friday -
:)

I discovered today that there is a major flaw with the FIOS Motorola HD/DVR boxes. I would think that this has been discussed already but I have don't have time to search through the entire thread. I had an entire install of FOIS on 6 TV's today. After the tech left I started to tweak out the units starting with my HT room. The box is run to my IF7205 FP via HDMI, sound to my AVR via coax. The first thing I noticed is that the sound was defaulting to PCM. I played with the little sound setting that Motorola has only to find out there was no way to get the DVR to play in Dolby 5.1 or better. I called FIOS cust support and was transferred to a "specialist". What a joke that was trying to explain while she was on the other line with Motorola tech support. Long story short Motorola has a bug in their box that does not allow DD 5.1 playback when using the HDMI for video and coax or optic for audio. I was told to forget using HDMI and use component instead and that will enable DD 5.1 playback via digital output. They have to be kidding me! I immediately cancelled service and told them to come back and pick up all the equip. Glad I did not cancel my BrightHouse service. FIOS admitted that they know about this issue but feel that it is not a big problem and that they were told by Motorola that they should have a fix in a month or so....I HAVE HEARD THAT BEFORE. Also in Video observation, I have to say I see no quality improvement over BrightHouse. All in all I am very disapointed. I have had FIOS for my data for a couple of months and have been very happy. I really was hoping that FIOS TV would blow me away but that just does not seem to be the case in any way shape or form. In reality I think the PQ with BH is better....go figure.

I would think that this has been discussed already but I have don't have time to search through the entire thread.

You're correct. It's a known issue that's discussed in 25% of the posts. No offense, but if you don't have time to read through a thread then you shouldn't have time to post.

You're correct. It's a known issue that's discussed in 25% of the posts. No offense, but if you don't have time to read through a thread then you shouldn't have time to post.

No offense taken :D Some of these threads are SSSSSOOOOOOOOOO long here that it would take ones weekend to read them. I did breeze through the last couple pages of the thread and did not see anything. Wish I had the time to read every thread I would not of had to go through the time I wasted today on my install with FIOS. But it still wouldn't of changed placing my post to give my opinion. FIOS should be ashamed of themselves! Claiming in full page adds that they have the latest and greatest technology and have a bug like that in their hardware. That bug takes you back five years in tehnology. Another thing I don't like about the Motorola box is that you can only output in a set resolution. The lack of an "auto" mode is another short comming of the Motorola design. This box reminds me of the earlier DTV boxes with all the bugs that they had to work out. Heck, come on... Motorola has designed enough harware to know better than to release a box with these issues.
I will give FIOS credit on their data end as I think it far superior to any other service currently out their. However they have some growing pains to get over with their TV service. Perhaps I will come back to them in a year or so to see if they have outgrown them.

I
had the Verizon Fios "triple play" installed in my house this past Tuesday. The install took all day (9AM-5PM) but all went well.

Love the internet service, just as quick online as the previous Optimum Online broadband cable modem.

The FIOS TV looks great. I don't really like their Motorola 6416 HD-DVR box compared to the Cablevision SA8300 but it will have to do. The Motorola isn't as tweakable as the SA.

And the remote stinks but I will soon activate a Harmony 880.

Overall this install will save me $$ per month and I will have one bill for all these services.

I am pleased. The Verizon guys were great.

No offense taken :D Some of these threads are SSSSSOOOOOOOOOO long here that it would take ones weekend to read them.

Yep, I just finished post #1400 out of 10,000 in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=584936

In another week or so, I should be caught up.


Wish I had the time to read every thread I would not of had to go through the time I wasted today on my install with FIOS.

That's why I haven't gotten it yet.

FIOS should be ashamed of themselves! Claiming in full page adds that they have the latest and greatest technology and have a bug like that in their hardware. That bug takes you back five years in tehnology. Another thing I don't like about the Motorola box is that you can only output in a set resolution. The lack of an "auto" mode is another short comming of the Motorola design. This box reminds me of the earlier DTV boxes with all the bugs that they had to work out. Heck, come on... Motorola has designed enough harware to know better than to release a box with these issues.


No different than D* latest foray into DVR's without TiVo. Plenty of bugs in that one too. The first release is always buggy. I'm sure it'll all get corrected.

No different than D* latest foray into DVR's without TiVo. Plenty of bugs in that one too. The first release is always buggy. I'm sure it'll all get corrected.

I am sure they will in time but I have already been through the growing pains with D@ and Voom. The reason I was switching from Brighthouse was more due to convienience and FIOS's programming package is cheaper (don't know how long that will last). However with no added PQ and Motorola's less than stellar design and shot commings, I think I will sit on the side line and watch. I will give credit to Verizon's cust service, thy are better than most in that respect. I was told that they should be releasing a fix for the sound issue about mid April but once agin I have heard those promisses all to often in the past. If they were given a fix from Motorola and FIOS has not yet implemented it one would think that there are yet issues to work out with it. BTW I was not told by Verizon cust service that Motorola has a "fix" I just read that in an earlier post. They just said they were told there was a release date for mid April.

...The reason I was switching from Brighthouse was more due to convienience and FIOS's programming package is cheaper (don't know how long that will last). However with no added PQ and Motorola's less than stellar design and shot commings, I think I will sit on the side line and watch. I will give credit to Verizon's cust service, thy are better than most in that respect. I was told that they should be releasing a fix for the sound issue about mid April but once agin I have heard those promisses all to often in the past. If they were given a fix from Motorola and FIOS has not yet implemented it one would think that there are yet issues to work out with it. BTW I was not told by Verizon cust service that Motorola has a "fix" I just read that in an earlier post. They just said they were told there was a release date for mid April.Great info. Thanks for posting. Coming from DirecTV like I did, the PQ is a big improvement for me. I wouldn't think there would be much, if any, PQ improvement between FiOS and a modern digital cable plant like BH there in Tampa. I'm looking forward to them resolving the audio issue. Frankly for me and my Yamaha/Klipsch audio setup, I don't notice a big difference between DD5.1 and PLII, but obviously I'd rather have the former. Just like the difference between HDMI and component, on my 46-inch DLP there is not a big difference but there is a difference all the same. Particularly in my case I get much less overscan through HDMI. In the programming area, Verizon has some catching up to do, particularly in HD sports. Not having the InHD channels and their three MLB games a week in high def is a big disappointment to me, not to mention the lack of our regional sports network's HD feed and the 50-plus HD Orioles games they'll be doing this year.

Remember that there's another player to be blamed in this DVR business - Mircrosoft. It's a combination of Verizon telling both Motorola AND MS what it needs/wants changed.

Did you hear about the delay in Vista?

I want to replace the 4-way splitter the Verizon installers gave me last month with an 8-way splitter. Any recommendations?

What are the minimum specifications I should look for?

I want to replace the 4-way splitter the Verizon installers gave me last month with an 8-way splitter. Any recommendations?

What are the minimum specifications I should look for?Good question and one that's probably going to start getting asked more ...

I would say the answer would depend on:

1) What frequency range (MHz) is Verizon using for Moca?

2) Are there any splitter characteristics that make it harder / easier and or more / less error prone for Moca to bridge?

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to either (off-hand).

One problem I have with the Motorola QIP6416 cable box is that the switched outlet doesn't work well with my Sony SXRD.

When I turn off the cable box, I need the Sony to also shut off (which it does..the Sony turns off) but the fan must continue to work for a few minutes (for the bulbs life).

My previous Cablevision SA8300 did that but this Motorola shuts down everything to stop (the fan also turns off).

The settings in the Motorola just aren't as good as the SA.

Anyone know if its possible to get the Motorola to work properly? Or should I just leave the Sony in its own seperate outlet?

The MoCA IP frequency range is 1125 MHz to 1425 MHz.

One problem I have with the Motorola QIP6416 cable box is that the switched outlet doesn't work well with my Sony SXRD.

When I turn off the cable box, I need the Sony to also shut off (which it does..the Sony turns off) but the fan must continue to work for a few minutes (for the bulbs life).

My previous Cablevision SA8300 did that but this Motorola shuts down everything to stop (the fan also turns off).

The settings in the Motorola just aren't as good as the SA.

Anyone know if its possible to get the Motorola to work properly? Or should I just leave the Sony in its own seperate outlet?
I have a feeling your previous DVR's outlet was not switched at all - that's the only way the fan could keep working after the main power is shut down - it needs power.
You should plug the Sony into its own outlet.

Hey all -

Just wanted to give you some real info on the installation of FiOS. I was a former Cox customer who was frankly tired of watching the snowy analog channels and really wanted the "clear" picture Cox promises but can't seem to deliver.

Anyways, since this is hardware related, I thought I'd talk about the install.

Firstly, the guys installing the service seemed more knowledgeable than the Cox guys that I've had in the past (though there was ONE serviceman from Cox that did impress me). They explained what needed to be done, and were very willing to listen to my concerns and work out how the installation took place.

The installation requires a lot of additional hardware (I don't have a sat so I am just comparing to Cox. phone, etc.). They install a battery backup device to power a rather large box outside the house.

The computer is run using an RJ-45 (as others said). Just so you understand how cool this is..you are running RJ-45 to a fiber line run to the house (for the non-techies this sounds real neat LOL). Anyways I did speed tests and have got a firm 15148 down, 1896 up (I got the 15MBps package). This is plain incredible and blows away the Cox connection which averaged about 2-3 MBps down on non-peak times.

The TV was run with my existing Cox lines. However there is a special box they need to have VOD work called an NIM. This box seems to only work with the provided D-Link router (if they ask whether or not you want their router, best say yes). I tried to use it on my LinkSys and it didn't work (called them to confirm that it doesn't work with most routers/switches since it required some firmware in the D-Link). Don't worry if you have another router already configured for wireless, as all I had to do was run a cable from that routers 'WAN' jack into the D-Link network and all worked fine.

Coming from Cox all I can say is that I now have my money's worth. The channel changing is MUCH faster on FiOS. The PQ on all channels is much better, and there are no snowy analog stations anymore. SCI-FI now looks like Cox HD channels :) Most channels look as good as DVD (though the ones that don't are most likely broadcasting poorly).

Anyways, so far I am very happy with the whole process, the total install took about 5 hours, so plan for some time. In the end its very worth it, I love the Motorola HD DVR box, it even looks nice next to my Denon, and sounds great through my Def Tech 7.1 speakers :)

Let me know if you need any more info, I'll try to answer anything that I can. I think FiOS will set a new standard in TV - and I don't even work for Verizon :)

I want to replace the 4-way splitter the Verizon installers gave me last month with an 8-way splitter. Any recommendations?

What are the minimum specifications I should look for?

I had the 8 way installed from FIOS. This is what the splitter say's, hope it helps:

PDI Mega Splitter PDI-8WMVS-5 5-1000MHZ 8 way

Each of the 8 outputs is 12.5DB

BTW this splitter also works perfectly for my Brighhouse, left the splitter in place when I switched everything back.

One other negative with the Motorola box that I also forgot to mention is the use of a cooling fan. It seems pretty much across the board to me that most favor the SA 8300HD DVR to the Motorola. Another thing with the box that suprised me is they use the same body for the DVR and HD box, and this is no small box. It is not high but quite wide. If it is going into a cabinet no problem but on a dresser like in a bedroom the standard HD box takes up a lot of space. Even the SD box is rather on the large side.

I watched Alien vs Predator on my 65 inch rear screen projection Toshiba last night. Since this is an analog TV, I don't run the HDMI out to this set. The sound was very nice, I know I read about the sound problems from HDMI. The DVR playback was flawless, the picture was very nice. The one problem I now note (as written by others) is the Motorola seems to be fixed at 720p, which is not the best resolution for my 65 inch (its 1080i native). It is wonderful for my DLP TV though, which is why the picture is so much better on my DLP. But, my DLP does not allow me to change to widescreen at 720p input (neither will my 65 inch if I use the digital input, but for now its on component).

I will therefore agree that the Motorola box looks nice, has fast menus, and is very easy to use, however I really would like the ability to change the output (768p would be real nice as well), and at some point the 5.1 should work using the HDMI output. But this is PAR for the course, as many want to complain, I remeber only 1 week ago I had 10 HD channels, now I have 21+, and I can wait a bit for this.

Anyways, I am still happy with the service, but there is a few things on the TV side that I hope are resolved sometime in April. This, btw, would not make me go back to Cox, since the PQ is still worlds above them.

An article from 3/15 has some info:
=================================
Following locations:

Essex County;
Cedar Grove, Fairfield, Livingston and Verona

Bergen County: Bogota

Middlesex County: Middlesex

Monmouth County:
Allenhurst, Avon, Bradley Beach, Deal, Freehold Township, Howell Township, Interlaken, Loch Arbour, Neptune City, Neptune Township, Ocean Township and Shrewsbury Township

Morris County: Mt. Olive and Roxbury

Somerset County:
ranchburg, Bridgewater, Green Brook and Raritan

Cool! :)


Article:
http://sys-con.com/read/195199.htm

I believe if you go into the menu (shut off the DVR but leave the TV on...then press MENU till you bring up a white screen that has aspect ratio and other settings such as 720p/1080i) you can change it to 1080i.

Its weird how they designed this DVR.

I believe if you go into the menu (shut off the DVR but leave the TV on...then press MENU till you bring up a white screen that has aspect ratio and other settings such as 720p/1080i) you can change it to 1080i.

Its weird how they designed this DVR.
That doesn't work on mine. :confused:

I believe if you go into the menu (shut off the DVR but leave the TV on...then press MENU till you bring up a white screen that has aspect ratio and other settings such as 720p/1080i) you can change it to 1080i.

.

Turn the DVR or HD Motorola off. Then hit PWR then Menu. Do it in that sequence and it will take you to the menu. It took the tech several times trying this each time to get it to work.


Its weird how they designed this DVR.

Sure is :confused:

I
had the Verizon Fios "triple play" installed in my house this past Tuesday. The install took all day (9AM-5PM) but all went well.

Love the internet service, just as quick online as the previous Optimum Online broadband cable modem.

The FIOS TV looks great. I don't really like their Motorola 6416 HD-DVR box compared to the Cablevision SA8300 but it will have to do. The Motorola isn't as tweakable as the SA.

And the remote stinks but I will soon activate a Harmony 880.

Overall this install will save me $$ per month and I will have one bill for all these services.

I am pleased. The Verizon guys were great.
if you dont mind me asking what town are you in? i'm in the town of hempstead i have been waiting for fios to become available, the fiber has been on the pole for sometime now. i did hear that they were going for approvement from the town which should allow them to reach over 500,000 more people, how long after they get approved to offer fios, do they take to offer it to customers

I'm in Massapequa Park.

Does fios have distance limitations similar to the way DSL does?

No, distance is not an issue with FIOS AFAIK.

Does fios have distance limitations similar to the way DSL does?

I was told no by the FIOS installers.

Does fios have distance limitations similar to the way DSL does?
The only limit is Verizons' willingness to pull it to your house.

Turn the DVR or HD Motorola off. Then hit PWR then Menu. Do it in that sequence and it will take you to the menu. It took the tech several times trying this each time to get it to work.

I got it to work - the trick is to press MENU quickly AFTER turning OFF the DVR.

Not much on that screen - at least I was able to change my TV setting.

The only limit is Verizons' willingness to pull it to your house.


I'm sunk. :o
Live in a nice area that's sparcely populated.

I'm in Massapequa Park.
is that town of oyster bay? how long after the town approved the service did you see verizon offer it

Just had Verizon pick up my FIOS TV equipment. It's a shame the sound issue problem with the Motorola. I have to say that Verizion's cust service is about the best I have seen of any other internet or TV provider. Once they get a few of the bugs they have worked out on the TV end, the other providers out there should start worrying. There data end has been flawless (other than a 30 minute interruption) since I have had it for just over 2 months now. The data end is a definite keeper.

Just had Verizon pick up my FIOS TV equipment. It's a shame the sound issue problem with the Motorola. I have to say that Verizion's cust service is about the best I have seen of any other internet or TV provider. Once they get a few of the bugs they have worked out on the TV end, the other providers out there should start worrying. There data end has been flawless (other than a 30 minute interruption) since I have had it for just over 2 months now. The data end is a definite keeper.
Sorry to see you go. One thing that is nice about being an early adopter is that as the inevitable fixes and enhancements roll in you feel like you are receiving free gifts. I can't wait until the planned weekend addition of NGHD and Fox SW HD, for example.

I expect FiOS to fix the problems many of us are seeing now, and have grown used to being patient with technology as it matures. Over the years I have noticed an increasing impatience in people posting to the avsforum. That does not sync well with the increasing complexity of technology, and the trend (not just Motorola and Microsoft) of shaking things out in the field.

Hopefully you will jump back in after the rest of us have worked through the problems. We have broad shoulders here in avs land :-)....

Sorry to see you go. One thing that is nice about being an early adopter is that as the inevitable fixes and enhancements roll in you feel like you are receiving free gifts. I can't wait until the planned weekend addition of NGHD and Fox SW HD, for example.

I expect FiOS to fix the problems many of us are seeing now, and have grown used to being patient with technology as it matures. Over the years I have noticed an increasing impatience in people posting to the avsforum. That does not sync well with the increasing complexity of technology, and the trend (not just Motorola and Microsoft) of shaking things out in the field.

Hopefully you will jump back in after the rest of us have worked through the problems. We have broad shoulders here in avs land :-)....

Planned weekend addition of Fox SW HD? When is that planned? Getting FIOS data in Plano, Tx tomorrow. Today's paper says TV fiber being pulled this week in Plano to support TV, so I'm thinking of dropping D*.

I'm having an issue with some of my FiOS TV SD channels that I am trying to resolve. For the point of this question, I am not addressing the local SD channels (channels 3-49), which I believe are being delivered in analog. My understanding is:

1) All channels are broadcast simultaneously (digitally) on the FiOS fiber that goes to the side of my house, into my ONT,
2) The ONT places each one of these channels (still a digital signal) into its specific RF slot on the COAX coming out of the ONT,
3) The STB decodes the digital signal for display.

So, if all of the above is correct, can I assume that since the signal between the ONT and the STB is digital and not analog, a damaged COAX cable between them cannot be the cause of a "noisy" picture on some of my SD channels?

I'm having an issue with some of my FiOS TV SD channels that I am trying to resolve. For the point of this question, I am not addressing the local SD channels (channels 3-49), which I believe are being delivered in analog. My understanding is:

1) All channels are broadcast simultaneously (digitally) on the FiOS fiber that goes to the side of my house, into my ONT,
2) The ONT places each one of these channels (still a digital signal) into its specific RF slot on the COAX coming out of the ONT,
3) The STB decodes the digital signal for display.

So, if all of the above is correct, can I assume that since the signal between the ONT and the STB is digital and not analog, a damaged COAX cable between them cannot be the cause of a "noisy" picture on some of my SD channels?
Probably a good assumption - although this should be easy to test with a switch of either the coax or the STB. A bad connection from the STB to the TV could also cause this, in which case the above test won't change anything.

Most of the locals, up to channel 49, are sent in 3 versions: analog NTSC, clear QAM version of the analog and encrypted QAM HD (channels in the 8xx range)

is that town of oyster bay? how long after the town approved the service did you see verizon offer it


Yes, Massapequa Park is in the town of Oyster Bay jurisdiction located on the south shore of the Island.

I believe Verizon got the ok around September 05 and began offering it to the residents as of Jan 06.

They've had a big push here in the month of March, with door to door salesmen.

I've had Verizon FIOS TV for exactly a week now and its fine.

I just have to get used to the channels being in different places compared to the Cablevision lineup.

Probably a good assumption - although this should be easy to test with a switch of either the coax or the STB. A bad connection from the STB to the TV could also cause this, in which case the above test won't change anything.

Most of the locals, up to channel 49, are sent in 3 versions: analog NTSC, clear QAM version of the analog and encrypted QAM HD (channels in the 8xx range)

I see the problem on both of my HDTV's. I've tried HDMI and Component Video on both TV's as well.

Don't get me wrong, on the vast majority of channels, FiOS TV's PQ is far superior to that of D*. It's just on a few channels that I notice it (like Nickleodeon), especially when a cartoon (like Spongebob) is playing. If I turn to the same channel on D*, I still notice the same "noise", just not quite as bad as that on FiOS.

And yes, as my handle indicates, I am picky!

The TV was run with my existing Cox lines. However there is a special box they need to have VOD work called an NIM. This box seems to only work with the provided D-Link router (if they ask whether or not you want their router, best say yes). I tried to use it on my LinkSys and it didn't work (called them to confirm that it doesn't work with most routers/switches since it required some firmware in the D-Link). Don't worry if you have another router already configured for wireless, as all I had to do was run a cable from that routers 'WAN' jack into the D-Link network and all worked fine.



Just found this forum today and so I signed up to hopefully add to the knowledge base here.

As for the use of Verizon specific "D-Link" routers only, that's not necessary. I use Verizon's FIOS broadband internet service with a custom firewall, two wireless routers and a Vonage linksys router and had no problem connecting their "NIM" into my configuration. The only thing that you have to know is that the Verizon "NIM" must go on a subnet that is 192.168.0.X to work correctly. I found that out the hard way when I was upgrading my friend's home network and his VOD services quit working. I had upgraded his system from the "D-Link" router to a better quality wireless router and at the time not knowing what the "little black box" from Verizon was for, I changed the primary router IP address to 192.168.10.1 and after doing some other computer work for my friend, he wanted to show me is new Verizon FIOS TV setup. It was then that we found out that his VOD services no longer worked. I looked at the dumb "Little Black Box" and figured that it wasn't smart enough to ask the DHCP for an address. So I changed the network subnet back to 192.168.0.1 and bingo the VOD services came back.

So when I finally added FIOS TV to my house I knew ahead of time that I needed to have a subnet with 192.168.0.1. So I setup the DMZ out of my firewall with that address and when the Verizon tech came to do the installation I just told him that I'd hook up the "NIM" for him. He complained when he couldn't see the "Verizon D-Link" router anywhere but I told him we'd worry about that if something didn't work after he installed the rest of the equipment. Everything did work and so he didn't even think about it later. The other advantage of having the "NIM" on the DMZ is that I didn't have to change any of my existing traffic shaping in the firewall.

A VOD request does cause about 4mbps of inbound traffic per set top box. So I don't know if there's any issues with say having your Vonage router as your primary. As an example if you had two sets both running a VOD, that would be between 8 and 9mbps and that might flood the elementary traffic shaping in the Vonage router. You'd never see a few dropped data packets while "browsing" the net. VOIP is probably the only situation where you'd notice a problem if there would be one. Now that I think about it both my friends that I configured their Vonage routers, have FIOS TV and they've using the Vonage router as their primary router and they've not said anything about having any phone audio quality problems. I've had FIOS TV up and running for a couple of weeks now and I don't have any problems at all with my Vonage VOIP. It was funny the first time I saw my inbound traffic hit 13mbps when I only have 5/2mbps service. Obviously the VOD traffic gets a free pass at whatever speed it needs.

Hopefully this info helps someone.

Thanks for the info and welcome to the forum !

Another place you may consider posting or at least reading is: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiber
if you have not been there yet.

2) The ONT places each one of these channels (still a digital signal) into its specific RF slot on the COAX coming out of the ONT,





The ONT isn't that smart. The signals are modulated at the CO. The ONT is simply doing an opto to electric conversion.

Thanks for the info and welcome to the forum !

Another place you may consider posting or at least reading is:
if you have not been there yet.


Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

Btw...I've also added my Netgear wireless router back into my system. So I have 2 wireless routers in play...the Verizon D-Link (which usually shows its strenghth as being "very good" to the NetGear which usually shows a strenght of "excellent".


Another cool thing about Verizon FIOS TV:

Last night I was watching American Idol followed by Sons & Daughters on ABC.
I didn't realize that I was watching regular SD channels 5 and 7 (Fox and ABC in NY).

I only realized that I wasn't on the Hi-Def channels when I tuned to The Amazing Race 9 which was in widescreen. Since that show is not Hi-Def, I was wondering why it was letterboxed all of a sudden. Thats when I realized I was on regular channel 2 (CBS) in a stretch mode instead of Hi-Def channel 802.

Thats how good Verizon FIOS TV is....completely fooled me. :D

Help!

I just got a voicemail message from an A/V contractor who is just wrapping up a large home theater installation (aren't they all) in a condo where I am responsible for interfacing the residential units with whatever is available for TV programming sources in the communications closets.

This customer was about to have installed two DirecTV HD DVRs and one regular HDTV tuner. I was going to bring in two stacked DirecTV trunklines, one with Sat A and the other Sat B/C, along with another coax carrying sixteen channels of broadcast HDTV from a master antenna system I built that receives signals from six cities, and destack the stacked signals into a 5x8 multiswitch to support his receivers.

Now he leaves me a messages that he says the "heard" that Verizon is making DirecTV available via fiber, and he wants to know of that is an alternative for this installation. I went to Verizon's site.

I clicked the VerizonFIOS link from bilodom's post #28, but didn't see any reference to DirecTV in it. Can anyone tell me whether VerizonFIOS carries DirecTV programming or, if not, if there is some Verizon fiber service that does?

I also wasn't able to tell from the first couple dozen posts in this thread how Verizon's signal would interface with DVRs. Is it contained within the industry standard 54-860Mz range, such that any old DVR could find and tune it? If so, then what encryption control does it have? If it is distributed over a band that exceeds 860Mz, then are there subscriber frequency converters, or is the customer limited to using Verizon-furnished HD DVRs and the like?

Can anyone tell me whether VerizonFIOS carries DirecTV programming or, if not, if there is some Verizon fiber service that does?


No they don't and no there isn't.


I also wasn't able to tell from the first couple dozen posts in this thread how Verizon's signal would interface with DVRs. Is it contained within the industry standard 54-860Mz range, such that any old DVR could find and tune it? If so, then what encryption control does it have? If it is distributed over a band that exceeds 860Mz, then are there subscriber frequency converters, or is the customer limited to using Verizon-furnished HD DVRs and the like?

Verizon has their own DVR and AFAIK that's all that can currently be used.

J
A VOD request does cause about 4mbps of inbound traffic per set top box. So I don't know if there's any issues with say having your Vonage router as your primary. As an example if you had two sets both running a VOD, that would be between 8 and 9mbps and that might flood the elementary traffic shaping in the Vonage router. You'd never see a few dropped data packets while "browsing" the net. VOIP is probably the only situation where you'd notice a problem if there would be one. Now that I think about it both my friends that I configured their Vonage routers, have FIOS TV and they've using the Vonage router as their primary router and they've not said anything about having any phone audio quality problems. I've had FIOS TV up and running for a couple of weeks now and I don't have any problems at all with my Vonage VOIP. It was funny the first time I saw my inbound traffic hit 13mbps when I only have 5/2mbps service. Obviously the VOD traffic gets a free pass at whatever speed it needs.

Hopefully this info helps someone.
All along I assumed that the video signal itself comes along the coax not the ethernet port - the LAN is only used for signaling. If that's the case, then the traffic would take a huge jump if FiOS was to ever deliver HD VOD. Let's say you have 2 HD VODs channels going - that's over 30mbps going through the router. :eek:

I had the 8 way installed from FIOS. This is what the splitter say's, hope it helps:

PDI Mega Splitter PDI-8WMVS-5 5-1000MHZ 8 way

Each of the 8 outputs is 12.5DB

BTW this splitter also works perfectly for my Brighhouse, left the splitter in place when I switched everything back.

Thank You!

Thanks for the great info, this site is great!

VIDEOKING - That worked great, the PQ on my 65 inch seriously improved. The other setting that is real interesting is the setting below that which sets the resolution of a 480i signal. That helped my DLP by allowing me to use more "widescreen" options, since the options on that TV are limmited in a 720p signal. I still would prefer a "pass-through" option, but these options certainly improved my experiences.

RSA-Retired - Thank you very much for signing on and adding this information! I got frustrated rather quickly with this, and I had hoped the tech knew what he was talking about, I guess not :) I haven't tried this yet, but will a bit later. This will get rid of 1 less piece of equipment that I really don't need :)

Ok, so I guess the only major issue with the box remains the HDMI/DD issue. I found this link, thought this was interesteing and pointed out that this box may not be the only one with this problem (I have to wonder if this is just how Motorola boxes are in general?)

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20930#post20930

Item number 3. At least we're not alone.

Help!

I just got a voicemail message from an A/V contractor who is just wrapping up a large home theater installation (aren't they all) in a condo where I am responsible for interfacing the residential units with whatever is available for TV programming sources in the communications closets.

This customer was about to have installed two DirecTV HD DVRs and one regular HDTV tuner. I was going to bring in two stacked DirecTV trunklines, one with Sat A and the other Sat B/C, along with another coax carrying sixteen channels of broadcast HDTV from a master antenna system I built that receives signals from six cities, and destack the stacked signals into a 5x8 multiswitch to support his receivers.

Now he leaves me a messages that he says the "heard" that Verizon is making DirecTV available via fiber, and he wants to know of that is an alternative for this installation. I went to Verizon's site.


I clicked the VerizonFIOS link from bilodom's post #28, but didn't see any reference to DirecTV in it. Can anyone tell me whether VerizonFIOS carries DirecTV programming or, if not, if there is some Verizon fiber service that does?

I also wasn't able to tell from the first couple dozen posts in this thread how Verizon's signal would interface with DVRs. Is it contained within the industry standard 54-860Mz range, such that any old DVR could find and tune it? If so, then what encryption control does it have? If it is distributed over a band that exceeds 860Mz, then are there subscriber frequency converters, or is the customer limited to using Verizon-furnished HD DVRs and the like?


Verizon does not offer Directv programming over fios.They have a handshake deal with directv to bundle their programming with data(DSL) and voice in areas where fios is not in yet.This was done in order to compete with the local cable companys triple play packages and began before FIOS.But you can only order it as part of a bundle.

Verizon was awarded a video franchise today by the town of hempstead.See it here
http://newscenter.verizon.com/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=93368&PROACTIVE_ID=cecdc7c6c6c9ccc9c6c5cecfcfcfc5cecdcfc8ccc8cbcfc dcfc5cf

Verizon was awarded a video franchise today by the town of hempstead.See it here
http://newscenter.verizon.com/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=93368&PROACTIVE_ID=cecdc7c6c6c9ccc9c6c5cecfcfcfc5cecdcfc8ccc8cbcfc dcfc5cf
when do you think they will start to offer the service to customers

Thanks for the info everyone. That answers my questions. I'm definitely leaning towards pulling the plug on E* and going to FIOS. I've been a relatively happy E* customer but I paid $1000 for the 921 when it first came out so you can guess how I feel about that whole fiasco. I've kind of had it with Charlie's broken promises on that sad box. Also, I've lost my look at 61.5 due to neighbors tree growth which really limits the HD I can receive. Also, the DVR and additional receiver fees do irritate me a bit too. Right now I pay $75 with Dish for
* Americas Top 180 with Locals
* DVR Fee (for 921)
* Addtl receiver fee (for my 921)
* Dish HD Package (no Voom)
* Extended Warranty

I'm figuring with FIOS It will be
$35 Expanded Basic
$12 DVR Fee (I think someone said there is a $12 DVR fee)
$12 Maybe the Entry Movie Package

Totals out to $59


Am I missing something? How much will I pay for a 2nd QIP6416 receiver to service my two upstairs TVs? Also, is the $12 DVR fee correct?


Sorry to jump in late, but you have to pay a fee even though you own the 921? I have Dish, with an old-skool PVR501; and I don't pay any fees to my knowledge. I was told that I wouldn't have to since I bought my receiver.

Are you basically paying a fee for the right to record HD? If so, that sucks out loud.

On the issue of FTTP, I'm on the fence. Verizon's tentacles haven't reached my area yet, but I do have a FTTP option with one of the local utilities- BVUB. It isn't quite as sexy as the FIOS service; but the prices are decent.

I can get expanded basic, 37 digital channels, music channels, Starz/Encore, Starz HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN HD, Discovery HD Theater, and all of my locals in HD. For internet, the speed is 5Mbit/down and 256Kbit up (just like I have with Comcast) for roughly $112/month. I also have the option of using their VoIP service; but I'm really hooked on Vonage so I'll probably stay with them.

If I don't go with BVUB, I might go with D*. E* has been fine, but I want a MPEG4 receiver. I'm not into the receiver merry-go-round. :rolleyes: No matter who I might be with at the time, whenever FIOS gets here, I'll probably switch over to their service.

when do you think they will start to offer the service to customers

Still has to get state approval,probably a few months at earliest.Also Verizon may not be equipped for mass installations yet,which would probably cause further delays once it is available.

Still has to get state approval,probably a few months at earliest.Also Verizon may not be equipped for mass installations yet,which would probably cause further delays once it is available.
i hope it wont be too long i have had enough with the other providers. i know the fiber is up on my block and i have seen it up all over the town :)

Does FIOS TV support TVs with cablecards?

If so, then it might also support the TiVo3.

-- Rich

Does FIOS TV support TVs with cablecards?



Not yet.

Not yet.

Too bad. FIOS in coming to my town. The trucks have been running wires for a couple of months.

I will check with a friend who works at Verizon to see what is up with the cablecards.

- Rich

FiOS does support cable cards they just don't say it. I talked to the installer last week. That is true with most cable co's, they have to support them cuz of FCC law but they don't tell you.

FiOS does support cable cards they just don't say it. I talked to the installer last week. That is true with most cable co's, they have to support them cuz of FCC law but they don't tell you.

That is interesting. Comcast in MA does not charge for the cablecard. That would be nice too :)

- Rich

FiOS does support cable cards they just don't say it. I talked to the installer last week. That is true with most cable co's, they have to support them cuz of FCC law but they don't tell you.
The word on the street is that Verizon supports CableCard 1.0, not 2.0 at this point, but is working the latter.

What this means is that as of today the V* CableCard will not support VOD or the interactive guide; however, a cablecard-ready TV should be able to tune in the V* digital channels.

Other rumors are that V* is working with TiVo on a fully-integrated solution. That, combined with the typical list of TiVo improvements, are a biggee on my future shopping list, if it ever appears.

Just found this forum -- very helpful. I'm not tech-savvy in the least, and I'm really not sure there's a solution to my problem. I had Verizon FIOS cable installed this week, replacing Dish Network. The HD PQ is stunning. However, the SD PQ is pretty poor -- far worse than the Dish SD.

Since the HD is so good, I'm assuming all my settings and connections are OK. Is there anything that can be done to improve the SD PQ? I was actually very surprised at how bad it was -- even the installer made a comment about it. I had read some reviews that stated the Verizon SD was better than Dish or DirectTV, but this is definately not the case at my house.

I have a 40" Sony Bravia LCD, and I'm using the HDMI connector directly from the Motorola HD PRV.

I didn't have HD with Dish Network, so I was just using a coax cable to connect their standard DVR receiver, and the PQ was much better than I'm getting now.

Any comments would be much appreciated.

Given that we are both in Flower Mound I will immediately discount any problem with your original source. SD looks as good and most of the time much, much better on FiOS vs. what I used to see on DirecTV. I don't have first-hand experience with Dish, however.

I will note that originally my SD picture off of FiOS wasn't very good. This seemed to be corrected in a couple of weeks, however, perhaps based on V* reacting to complaints about the poor quality of these feeds.

One possibility is that your previous use of coax was masking the poor SD quality; basically softening the picture to the extent that you weren't seeing the artifacting that is present in the pure signal. I am not sure to what extent this is true or not true, but many people moving to HD report problems with their SD due to this effect.

Here are some things to look at which may help, however:

1. Go into the setup menu of your QIP. You do this by powering off the DVR and then immediately hitting the MENU button on the remote. (Yes, this is odd). To get the pure, unprocessed 480i picture you should set your 480i Override option to 480i. By default this is set to "NONE", which upconverts the 480i picture to whatever your DVR output is set to , 720p or 1080i. Several people have reported that this improves PQ, as the 480i picture is passed through to your TV which is allowed to process it appropriately. I have mine set to "NONE" since I think this gives me a brighter, more vibrant SD picture, and doesn't cause by Sony to have to switch input resolutions with every channel change. YMMV

2. Sony's have a nasty habit of over-enhancing their pictures. I have an older XBR than your unit, but in general get the best picture by putting it into Pro mode and turning off the many enhancements that Sony applies in other modes such as Vivid. You can play with the various enhancements available on your unit (not sure what these are), such as DNE (I think) which lets you play with the reality vs. clarity of the poorer inputs. The Rear Projection forum used to have some great postings by UMR on the GWI and GWII models on tweaking some things in the service menu for even better results. Do a search and see if there is anything for your model, or close to it.

Other than that I am not sure what is going on with you. My SD over FiOS is currently on par with the upconverted SD that is seen on the HD stations (I have done a flip back and forth comparison between CBS-SD and CBS-HD, for example, and currently see little difference). The culprit is either that someone has messed with your 480i Override setting on the DVR or that your Sony's display settings need to be properly calibrated as described above.

Let me know your progress on this.

Zucco,

In what way is the SD picture poor? FIOS-TV should have less compression, however, if you use their DVR that could do it. The Motorola DVRs do real-time mpeg encoding at a horribly low bitrate so you get macro-blocking and motions smear. Dish and Direct TV are digital so there they just dump the bits on disk so there is no additional loss when using a DVR.

You could use a TiVo for SD, get a non-DVR box for normal SD viewing, or wait for the TiVo 3 due out later this year.

-- Rich

I was under the understanding that even the SD stations received by the FiOS DVR are digital (including the local stations), thus all recording is straight-to-disk as with the DirecTV TiVo. Yes, FiOS does also provide an analog version of the low-channel stations on a separate frequency, but the DVR is not consuming this. Therefore, the DVR is not doing any MPEG encoding and is not contributing to the poor quality being seen in this case.

I was under the understanding that even the SD stations received by the FiOS DVR are digital (including the local stations), thus all recording is straight-to-disk as with the DirecTV TiVo. Yes, FiOS does also provide an analog version of the low-channel stations on a separate frequency, but the DVR is not consuming this. Therefore, the DVR is not doing any MPEG encoding and is not contributing to the poor quality being seen in this case.

That may be the case for FIOS, but it is not the case for Comcast. I assumed that Comcast would do the same thing, thereby removing the need for an encoder on the other end. But as it turns out, bandwidth is at a premium so you get mpeg encoding in the DVR. It was not just bad, it was horrible.

- Rich

Is there anyone that's actually USING a cable card with FIOS?

I hear all these rumors that it should work, but I've yet to see anyone actually using FIOS with a cable card.

That may be the case for FIOS, but it is not the case for Comcast. I assumed that Comcast would do the same thing, thereby removing the need for an encoder on the other end. But as it turns out, bandwidth is at a premium so you get mpeg encoding in the DVR. It was not just bad, it was horrible.

- Rich
Back when I first got FiOS TV I complained to Verizon concerning the poor SD quality. At the time I assumed exactly what you are saying: that my local SDs were being received by the box in analog and being encoded to the MPEG2. However, I was informed that this is not the case, and that the QIP's receive ALL of their inputs digitally.

Note that on Motorola's site the QIP is *not* listed as having an MPEG encoder. The DCT6412, however, clearly states the presense of a "Built-in dual MPEG analog encoder". The QIP is also touted as being "all-digital".

This still does not answer the question why our friend is seeing poor SD pictures. I can personally attest that the Dallas locals as of today look very good, so the input feed is not the problem.

BTDT: Thanks a lot for the feedback. Per your suggestion, I set my SD channels to 480i and the PQ is greatly improved -- at least as good as my Dish SD if not better.

This setting had been set to "Stretch", and I was getting a very digitalized PQ (is that what is referred to as "artifacting"?). The 480i setting definately made a huge difference.

BTDT: Thanks a lot for the feedback. Per your suggestion, I set my SD channels to 480i and the PQ is greatly improved -- at least as good as my Dish SD if not better.

This setting had been set to "Stretch", and I was getting a very digitalized PQ (is that what is referred to as "artifacting"?). The 480i setting definately made a huge difference.

What Set-top box are you using?

- Rich

BTDT: Thanks a lot for the feedback. Per your suggestion, I set my SD channels to 480i and the PQ is greatly improved -- at least as good as my Dish SD if not better.

This setting had been set to "Stretch", and I was getting a very digitalized PQ (is that what is referred to as "artifacting"?). The 480i setting definately made a huge difference.
It sounds like your TV is doing a better job at upconverting than your previous settings. I don't know what the QIP uses for video processing, but I do know that the Sonys are reasonably decent at it. Your artifacting may have been due to the QIP first upconverting 480i to 1080i, and then your Sony having to convert it to 788p (I think).

Certainly no good reason to stretch using an RP-LCD set. I watch all of my SD in 4:3 with black side bars. Stretching it just adds to whatever quality problems you might already have in the picture. It also provides an extra incentive to seek our HD programming in beautiful 16:9.

What Set-top box are you using?

- Rich

It's a Motorola Dual-Tuner HD DVR. Not sure about the model number.

So far the only issue I had was with the SD PQ, and that was solved by setting SD to 480i. The HD PQ is excellent, and the DVR has been working great -- it hasn't missed a recording yet. Overall, I'm very impressed with Verizon.

Is there anyone that's actually USING a cable card with FIOS?

I hear all these rumors that it should work, but I've yet to see anyone actually using FIOS with a cable card.
It's kinda hard for anyone to use it when Verizon hasn't made it available yet. ;)

It's kinda hard for anyone to use it when Verizon hasn't made it available yet. ;)
Actually, it has been reported that Verizon will supply you with a CableCard 1.0 if you request it. These don't support the interactive guide or VOD, however. You are correct that a fully-integrated solution is not yet available.

It's a Motorola Dual-Tuner HD DVR. Not sure about the model number.

So far the only issue I had was with the SD PQ, and that was solved by setting SD to 480i. The HD PQ is excellent, and the DVR has been working great -- it hasn't missed a recording yet. Overall, I'm very impressed with Verizon.

Glad to hear that you got it working and are happy. FIOS is coming to my town in the next few months. I hope TV is not far behind.

- Rich

Now I've got to figure out an easy way to switch between my STB and DVD player (Oppo with DVI-HDMI adapter) with only one HDMI input on my Sony Bravia.

I've read the widely varying reports about HDMI switchers on this forum, so I'm thinking about using an HDMI coupler to extend the connection out from the back of the TV a bit (just for convenience), and then manually unplugging each source when I want to switch between them.

Is there any signal degradation with an HDMI coupler? I see a very inexpensive one on the Monoprice website ($5.85). Also, do you think I would lose the settings on my STB by unplugging it from the TV? It would be a royal pain to have to re-set them every time I unplugged it.

Sure glad I found this forum. I didn't even know switchers and couplers were available until I stumbled on here.

I would recommend real switcher with a remote. Monoprice had x 5x1 switcher that is innexpensive (for these things) <$140 and has 5 inputs and equalization.

Gefen has nice products but cost considerably more.

-- Rich

I think he means "with a remote".

Just add a decent programmable remote with macro support and you can make this a seamless part of your setup (i.e. one button to switch from DVR to DVD, making all of the necessary receiver and HDMI switch changes, etc.).

I would recommend real switcher with a remove. Monoprice had x 5x1 switcher that is innexpensive (for these things) <$140 and has 5 inputs and equalization.

Gefen has nice products but cost considerably more.

-- Rich

I was reading on another thread that someone had trouble with the Monoprice 5 x 1 switcher and his Oppo DVD player -- red streaks or something -- and he wasn't able to solve the problem. Since I also have an Oppo, I'm a little concerned about that.

Do you think manually unplugging each componenent is a bad idea? I know it's a little inconvenient, but I don't know if there might be other problems I'm not aware of (like having to re-set the STB everytime I plug it back in).

I would recommend real switcher with a remove. Monoprice had x 5x1 switcher that is innexpensive (for these things) <$140 and has 5 inputs and equalization.

Gefen has nice products but cost considerably more.

-- RichI think he means "with a remote".

Just add a decent programmable remote with macro support and you can make this a seamless part of your setup (i.e. one button to switch from DVR to DVD, making all of the necessary receiver and HDMI switch changes, etc.).Reading y'all's banter reminds me of the old Everett Dirksen quote: "A billion here and a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money." :D Welcome to the wonderful world of consumer electronics.
Seriously, though, Zucco might want to consider one of the new AV receivers with HDMI switching. You'd get your two HDMI/DVI inputs. Of course there's still no certainty that the latest firmware upgrade will allow you to "pass through" the HDMI audio from the QIP 6416 (http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/product_documents/QIP6416-520408-001-a.pdf).

I was reading on another thread that someone had trouble with the Monoprice 5 x 1 switcher and his Oppo DVD player -- red streaks or something -- and he wasn't able to solve the problem. Since I also have an Oppo, I'm a little concerned about that.

Do you think manually unplugging each componenent is a bad idea? I know it's a little inconvenient, but I don't know if there might be other problems I'm not aware of (like having to re-set the STB everytime I plug it back in).

I think the cheapest is the manual switch which should be mechanical so there should be be a problem. That would be better than pluggin and unplugging things.

Otherwise, I would call monoprice and see what they have to say and check out the return policy.

- Rich

or perhaps Zucco should look into upgrading to one of the new sets with dual HDMI inputs, like the Sony SXRD (just an example of one that has this)? He has had his plasma for at least a couple of days. It must be obsolete by now :).

billodom: Yes, this is a fun environment for spending lots of money on little cool toys. I also enjoy the seemingly "free" toys that pop up too, like the latest QIP firmware update. I added the 30-second skip to my remote even though I don't really like to use it. But I just had to have it :D!

...I added the 30-second skip to my remote even though I don't really like to use it. But I just had to have it :D!

I can't get that to work, on my QIP6416 with my One-For-All remote. I send EFC 173, which everything I can find says is the Skip code, but box does nothing. Could you outline how you got that to work? Thanks.

Actually, it has been reported that Verizon will supply you with a CableCard 1.0 if you request it. These don't support the interactive guide or VOD, however. You are correct that a fully-integrated solution is not yet available.

So we still have to find someone that actually asked for it and got it to work (or I should say that *I* do).

My main reasoning is to save on cost AND hopefully when a Tivo Series-3 is released, use the cable card with that and the FIOS.

So we still have to find someone that actually asked for it and got it to work (or I should say that *I* do).

My main reasoning is to save on cost AND hopefully when a Tivo Series-3 is released, use the cable card with that and the FIOS.

I asked about cable card support when I had FiOS TV installed 2 weeks ago. The installer said he had Cable Card 1.0 in his van. CC 1.0 does not support VOD, interactive program guide, or any other 2 way communications. CC 2.0 will support 2 way communications. TiVo Series-3 is planned to use CC 2.0 when it comes out.

I came from (still have) DirecTiVo and miss it badly. I will be the first one to buy a series 3 box when they come out later this year.

i live in brandon, florida and had requested a cc along with 4 stb when i signed up in feb. i was told the cc would not be available for 1 to 3 months and that i would be placed on a list and contacted when available. there would be no install fee on the cc when it became available. got the 4 stb install on march 12 without problems (i already had fios internet).

i called v* last week and spent 30 minutes back and forth on hold while the rep talked to other people. finaly told it was available, would be installed this week, they had no knowledge of a waiting list and the install would cost 24.95. ok.

tech showed up last wed with the cc and said he had never installed one. called hq to activate and got a tech on that end that had never installed one. my tech put the cc in the philips lcd tv which immediately found it. the next 4 hours were spent with the two v* techs trying to get the cc to identify the v* signal. they finally gave up and said it was a bad cc.

Yesterday a different tech showed up with a new cc. he too had never installed a cc. this time the conversation between the tech and hqs lasted two hours. I now get the analog channels and the hd channels (some with no sound). all the channels in the mid range between analog and hd are not present. however, the cc has mapped all channels to the correct display number and identifies them on the channel info header. V* says the cc is working, the set has a good signal and the tv is seeing the cc. they think the problem is in the settings at hq and have escalated the issue to a supervisor.

I suspect it will magically start working correctly in the next day or two when someone makes the right tweak. I like V* but the cc install is not going smoothly. will update after the next round.

Thanks Dorsey, that is very helpful!

By the time they get FIOS rolled out here (we're supposed to have internet stuff this spring, but I think it'll be more like summer), hopefully they'll have the kinks worked out.

I'm hoping that we'll get FIOS TV before year's end as I'm tired of Time Warner jacking up my cable bill every 6-12 months.

wow there are 9 pages of comments. I've had FiOS internet when it's available here in NY. About to jump for FiOS TV. I've been reading a lot of this thread so I have a good understanding of what I'm in for.

However, I'm wondering whether I'll be able watch TV without the DVR or a cable box using just the RG6 line from the wall to a TV once the service is installed.

Also, Is anyone using FiOS TV with Windows MCE 2005? How's that been working out? (Either using the DVR Box through component or a digital tuner)

Yeah, you can watch TV without the box, only 2-50 though. Verizon broadcast 2-50 analog as well as digital up in the 64.102+ range, all unencrypted. There is also the networks in HD. For example I get ch 2 CBS analog on ch 2, HD CBS on 2.1 and digital CBS on 64.102 I have also seen the Music Choice channels with the digital tuner somewhere.

wow there are 9 pages of comments. I've had FiOS internet when it's available here in NY. About to jump for FiOS TV. I've been reading a lot of this thread so I have a good understanding of what I'm in for.

However, I'm wondering whether I'll be able watch TV without the DVR or a cable box using just the RG6 line from the wall to a TV once the service is installed.

Also, Is anyone using FiOS TV with Windows MCE 2005? How's that been working out? (Either using the DVR Box through component or a digital tuner)

Yes you can watch without the stb, but the channel line-up and the need for the stb is the dirty little secret of fios pricing. i paid ~$65 per month for bhn and got about 50 channels on all my tvs with no stb. these included channels i like such as history, discovery, etc. the standard fios tv is ~$35 per month for all tvs but that package gets you 17 channels, mostly local. If you want to watch other channels, you must pay for a stb at $4.95, for which you get about 200 channels. If your tv has an advanced tuner, you can receive more than the standard 17 channels but not all 200 channels providing you are paying for the stb. one of my tvs has advanced tuners - without the stb service i got 17 channels, with it activated and the stb disconnected i got about 50.

I have 5 tvs and i pay for 4 stb and 1 cablecard which adds about $23 per month to the $35 standard fee. not much different than bhn for the channels i really want. the difference is the V* customer service is far better and you get some additonal channels beyond the bhn standard offering. Of course, it also depends on how many tvs you have and how many are hd. the hd stb is $9.95 per month.