Excellent Jvincent. Is this an HD pattern?

Yes.

I haven't seen the recording yet but it was described as standard SMPTE colour bars with pluge and a moving CBC logo encoded at 1080i. There are supposed to be some audio tones as well.

Hello again friends! First off, before you read the rest of this post, rest assured that my XR5 is just fine and is presently on right now(break-in time) O.K now to my little scare. :eek: I havn't had much time to play with the XR5 this week, so I am still very (green) as far as being knowledgable of all the functions and settings the XR5 has. So I get up this morning and I had some time on my hands, so I figured that I would let the XR5 run for a while to continue it's break in period. So, I unplugged my Sharp LCD from my Monster Power center and plugged in the XR5. I then went and grabbed the remote for the XR5 and pressed power on. Oh......... My...........God! Nothing! No picture, nothing. O.K. I figured this has got to be any easy fix, power cord loose, or maybe the cord came unplugged from the power center. I checked all connections and pressed power on my remote again. Nothing! Holy (Bleep) I started to panic! What the hell happened! What will I tell my wife! How will I get this thing serviced? O.K. calm down, I told myself. After letting lose a few to many profanities, I gathered myself together and sat on the sofa to consider the possible solutions to my powerless plasma. After sitting and staring at myself in the reflection of the glass screen, I had a brainstorm. Where is the power button on this display? I had never taken the time to look for it. I looked through my owners manual and (walla) there it was on the bottom of the set. Take into consideration that I have not had time to mount the display yet, so it is resting ever so gently against my living room wall. That is why I didn't notice the power button on the bottom of the display.So anyway, I reached under the display with my finger and felt the power button. I then proceeded to press the button in and (please don't laugh) I was back in plasma heaven again. The power came back on and there was Discovery HD in all it's glory! I must say, My heart was beating out of my chest throughout this ordeal which seemed like it lasted an eternity. Just had to share this ordeal. Have a great day! :)

HEAR HEAR! For making private and public fools of ourselves with expensive toys :D

So anyway, I reached under the display with my finger and felt the power button. I then proceeded to press the button in and (please don't laugh) I was back in plasma heaven again.

I did the exact same thing when I first got my set. Put it on the stand, put the stand on the TV stand, plugged it in, set up the cables, press the power button on the remote... and then had an aneurism when it didn't turn on. Then 10 seconds later I realized, "Oh wait, I should probably press the hard power button".

Thank God I have somebody else who has shared the same temporary agony that I felt in that eternal 10 minutes. You never know, maybe by posting that occurence, I will save somebody the pain of having the same thing happen to them? ;)

Me too. I scurried around all evening getting everything connected just right and then at the climax when I tried to turn the plasma on............nothing. I had my wife and 2 sons sitting beside me for the big moment and they just gave me this crazy look.....this is it??? Alas, I found the power button and turned the panel on, saved me some ridicule.

On a side note. For those of you who want to hook speakers up to this panel but don't want to buy the NEC add-on's, get the small Bose cube speakers. I had some of these lying around and I hooked them up. They sound really good.

New pics, the Plasma in it's permanent home, running break-in DVD & the HSU sub that came today:

New pics, the Plasma in it's permanent home, running break-in DVD & the HSU sub that came today:
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Looks a little high, plus the panel does not look angled down - how far will you be sitting from the set? Do you have any trouble with hiding the cables?

Hopefully you don't have long before you can start enjoying the set

Thanks to the CBC (good to see my tax dollars at work) I've managed to get what looks to be a pretty good setup.

Here's my configuration and what I ended up with.

Source: SA8300HD PVR connected via HDMI.

Final Settings:
Contrast: 40
Brightness: 12
Sharpness: 16 (default)
Color: 26
Tint: 31
NR: Off
Color Temp: Middle (Defaults)
Cinema Mode: On
Picture Mode: Normal
Gamma: 2.2
Low Tone: 3
Set Up Level: 0
Color Tune (Defaults)

HDMI Setup: Low

A few comments. I ended up using HDMI setup on Low rather than high because as I was setting the brightness and contrast, I found that I had more "range" of settings with it at low. The same was true of Set Up Level. Anything other than 0 restricted the range that I could put on the black level, so 0 it is.

First step was to set Black level using the pluge bars. That was easy. Contrast was next.

Now of course, Brightness and Contrast interact. If I turned the contrast much past 45 it started to raise the black level, so that's pretty much the full dynamic range of the panel. I backed the contrast off it's max level of 45 to get as much dynamic range as possible without getting it super bright. I might increase a little later on.

Next was the Colour. It's worth noting that Contrast and Colour interact. Colour is set by matching the blue bar to the white bar viewed through a blue filter and the higher contrast it set, the higher colour needed to be set.

Once I got Brightness, Contrast, and Colour set Tint was next and was pretty much bang on the default.

I went into the Color Temp and Color Tune sub menus to see if I could get the other colours more balanced, as seen through the green and red filters, and to be honest, the best results were left at default.

I also cycled through Theater1/2, Bright, Normal and it had no effect on the colour balance.

I'm watching Rick Steve's Europe on PBS as I type this and the colours and flesh tones all look really good so far, so I'm going to leave it this way for a while.

So does the XR5 support 1080p inputs or is in only the XM5?

Thanks to the CBC (good to see my tax dollars at work) I've managed to get what looks to be a pretty good setup.

Here's my configuration and what I ended up with.

....

hey Jvincent, can you post these in the setting an tweaks thread so they don't get lost/are there too?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7360508#post7360508

So does the XR5 support 1080p inputs or is in only the XM5?

The XR5 does support 1080p inputs.

The XR5 does support 1080p inputs.

On both HDMI and component inputs?

Looks a little high, plus the panel does not look angled down - how far will you be sitting from the set? Do you have any trouble with hiding the cables?

Hopefully you don't have long before you can start enjoying the set

It's about 5' or so off the floor. It's on the standard NEC stand, FWIW. I didn't think it could articulate back and forth, just left and right?? Viewing distance will be about 10-13 feet, closer to 13 though. I'm not worried about hiding cables, this is my living room, not a dedicated theater. I promise not to tell Martha Stewart if you don't. :D

Well, by now I should be well into my 50-60 hour range on the break-in DVD, so I'm hoping by Sunday the family and I can watch some movies. If not, I'll have it all to myself for the next two weeks while laid-up from my surgery. Life will indeed be good. :cool:

hey Jvincent, can you post these in the setting an tweaks thread so they don't get lost/are there too?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7360508#post7360508

Done.

On both HDMI and component inputs?

I think just HDMI, but here you go, see for yourself:

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Products/Product/?product=f618f0e6-179f-416e-a871-a4eb4b03cbbe

FWIW, I wouldn't make so much of a deal for having 1080p over component, the XR5 will just downrez it to native anyway. :cool:

I think just HDMI, but here you go, see for yourself:

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Products/Product/?product=f618f0e6-179f-416e-a871-a4eb4b03cbbe

FWIW, I wouldn't make so much of a deal for having 1080p over component, the XR5 will just downrez it to native anyway. :cool:

Any point in getting the XM5 compared to the XR5, besides the fact you get 2 HDMI inputs vs 1 DVI?

Jvincent,
Thanks for the post of your settings. I put them into a memory and will try them.

I'm not surprised that the color temp values don't effect the color balance much. As I'm sure you know they'll have a much greater effect on contrast/brightness.

I think just HDMI, but here you go, see for yourself:

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Products/Product/?product=f618f0e6-179f-416e-a871-a4eb4b03cbbe

FWIW, I wouldn't make so much of a deal for having 1080p over component, the XR5 will just downrez it to native anyway. :cool:

The XR5 will accept 1080p60 over analog only (VGA, component).

The XM5 will accept 1080p60 over DVI as well.

1080p60 input has a potential advantage with BD. 1080p60 input will only require scaling to 768p60 for display whereas 1080i input requires inverse telecine to 1080p24, frame duplication to 1080p60 then scaling to 768p60.
The 1080p24 to 1080p60 frame duplication inside the BD player is simpler than inverse telecine of 1080i, so at least in theory, 1080p60 might look better.

Any point in getting the XM5 compared to the XR5, besides the fact you get 2 HDMI inputs vs 1 DVI?

XR5 - HDMI
XM5 - DVI

XR5 - 3 year warranty
XM5 - 1 year warranty

XR5 - reasonably priced
XM5 - a little cheaper than reasonably priced :D

IMHO, HDMI is the way the industry is going, why not get a set with 2 HDMI inputs and a better warranty? Don't get me wrong, the XM5 is a killer display, but it's only marginally cheaper than the XR5, and when you're spending in the neighborhood of the XR5/XM5 family, what's a couple hundred bucks?

The XR5 will accept 1080p60 over analog only (VGA, component).

The XM5 will accept 1080p60 over DVI as well.

1080p60 input has a potential advantage with BD. 1080p60 input will only require scaling to 768p60 for display whereas 1080i input requires inverse telecine to 1080p24, frame duplication to 1080p60 then scaling to 768p60.
The 1080p24 to 1080p60 frame duplication inside the BD player is simpler than inverse telecine of 1080i, so at least in theory, 1080p60 might look better.

Once again cpcat, thanks for the assist, even if some of it is somewhat Greek to me. :cool:

Have the HD-DVD or BD camps stated that they're going to allow 1080p over analog? If they aren't, it would kinda be a non-factor if the player were going to "force" the BD's signal output to say 540p, or even 720p rather than 1920x1080, wouldn't it?

Other than sending out from an HTPC to the XR5, why else would someone want to send analog 1080p to the XR5, when in theory, it will be "fitted" to 1365x768 anyway, and the all-digital HDMI connection should produce a "cleaner" signal, right?

Have the HD-DVD or BD camps stated that they're going to allow 1080p over analog? If they aren't, it would kinda be a non-factor if the player were going to "force" the BD's signal output to say 540p, or even 720p rather than 1920x1080, wouldn't it?

Other than sending out from an HTPC to the XR5, why else would someone want to send analog 1080p to the XR5, when in theory, it will be "fitted" to 1365x768 anyway, and the all-digital HDMI connection should produce a "cleaner" signal, right?

That's a good point. In all likelihood 1080p60 and 1080p24 will only be output via HDMI with BD. So the XR5 won't be any help. The XM5 will allow 1080p60 input over DVI though, so that could be an advantage through an HDMI/DVI adaptor.

Sony has said it will allow 1080i over component at least intitially. There's still a chance for 1080p60 as well but I'm not too optimistic. Even with component input, it would still be worth a try.

I certainly don't regret my XR5 purchase (as opposed to the XM5) it's just part of the overall cosideration.

That's a good point. In all likelihood 1080p60 and 1080p24 will only be output via HDMI with BD. So the XR5 won't be any help. The XM5 will allow 1080p60 input over DVI though, so that could be an advantage through an HDMI/DVI adaptor.

Sony has said it will allow 1080i over component at least intitially. There's still a chance for 1080p60 as well but I'm not too optimistic. Even with component input, it would still be worth a try.

I certainly don't regret my XR5 purchase (as opposed to the XM5) it's just part of the overall cosideration.

Oh, same here. I don't regret the XR5 one bit either. If for nothing else, the warranty is what swayed me.

I'm figuring that while these doofuses are fighting (and effectively splitting their installed base), something else (a la holographic storage disks, ect) are going to come along, be bigger, better and cheaper.

Regardless, I'm buying neither until they come down in price and have a good library in place to support the players. By then, one should surely be declared the winner (or in my perfect world - both would lose to a better, unified format).

One other thing to remember in the whole 1080p debate is that it is very, very, very unlikely that any player that supports 1080p over HDMI will also not support 1080i over HDMI.

And since the movies are going to be 1080p24 anyway, having a 1080p60 input is really no advantage.

Boss I may have turned you into a NEC junky.......Well along with a few others. :D Every day I see panels and I see a little glimmer in these NEC that makes them shine apart. (especially for the price)

That's a good point. In all likelihood 1080p60 and 1080p24 will only be output via HDMI with BD. So the XR5 won't be any help. The XM5 will allow 1080p60 input over DVI though, so that could be an advantage through an HDMI/DVI adaptor.

Sony has said it will allow 1080i over component at least intitially. There's still a chance for 1080p60 as well but I'm not too optimistic. Even with component input, it would still be worth a try.

I certainly don't regret my XR5 purchase (as opposed to the XM5) it's just part of the overall cosideration.
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Stopped by the Sonystyle store in Tyson's Corner (Washington DC area) and saw a BD Disk! 25 GB. They also had some films on their LCD that they said were examples of BD-quality. I am definitely getting a BD Player and I am sure it'll look great on the NEC! The PQ of a BD is a thing of beauty :)

I can't imagine paying $1K or more for one of the first uber-players AND then add the cost of the disks. I'm all for PQ, but I also need value - and it's going to be a while before I'm willing to step-up. I am not going to be sucked into buying disks *just* because they are BD or HD-DVD, and I think that is going to be a temptation to many of the early adopters. I'll wait until there is enough content available that I actually want to own.

Thanks to the CBC (good to see my tax dollars at work) I've managed to get what looks to be a pretty good setup.

Here's my configuration and what I ended up with.......

Thanks for posting on the NEC Tweaks site. Looks like a winner! Did you use Avia, since you are citing the filters, etc. that come with it?

It's about 5' or so off the floor. It's on the standard NEC stand, FWIW. I didn't think it could articulate back and forth, just left and right?? Viewing distance will be about 10-13 feet, closer to 13 though. I'm not worried about hiding cables, this is my living room, not a dedicated theater. I promise not to tell Martha Stewart if you don't. :D

Well, by now I should be well into my 50-60 hour range on the break-in DVD, so I'm hoping by Sunday the family and I can watch some movies. If not, I'll have it all to myself for the next two weeks while laid-up from my surgery. Life will indeed be good. :cool:
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Boss, I can well imagine the grin on your face when you turn on the DVD :) Picked out a movie yet?

I view mine from around 9 feet and have it at eye level, get the total immersion for movies in HD for sure!. Anyway, my wife would 'kill' me if she saw wires exposed anywhere around the set. We have the NEC in the living room and the Panny in the bedroom.

Thanks for posting on the NEC Tweaks site. Looks like a winner! Did you use Avia, since you are citing the filters, etc. that come with it?

I have Avia, but I did not use it for this setup. I just used the filters, since they are generic.

The pattern in question was a true HD pattern. By true HD I mean that the raw SMPTE pattern was encoded at 1920x1080i using the correct colour encoding matrix (ITU-709) for HD.

There is an employee of the CBC who is a member of the Digital Home Canada forum who helped to create the pattern and get it on the air.

For DVD calibration, I now use the GetGray DVD, which was defined / beta tested over on the Calibration sub-forum on AVS.

I can't imagine paying $1K or more for one of the first uber-players AND then add the cost of the disks. I'm all for PQ, but I also need value - and it's going to be a while before I'm willing to step-up. I am not going to be sucked into buying disks *just* because they are BD or HD-DVD, and I think that is going to be a temptation to many of the early adopters. I'll wait until there is enough content available that I actually want to own.
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True. I believe it was one of the Terminator movies showing and everything the motion the colors the images were perfect and crystal clear. You could literally watch it with no distortion or graininess from 2 ft away!

The TV they had set-it up with was a Qualia. Now it was supposed to be only a simulated or demo of a BD Movie. The players would be on demo in a few weeks they said.

OTOH: The last time I was at a Tweeter they had the new 42 inch 60U Panny right next to the 42 or 43 inch Pio Elite and they had Narnia playing on all sets - it was apparent that the Panny had the best picture. Even the sales guy at Tweeter (I have been to this store many times and everytime it has been, 'the Pioneer is in a class by itself'), said the sets were basically indistinguishable. Yet the Elite was exactly 2K more. So, to cut to the chase, people are spending more than 1K extra for better PQ all the time. I believe Denon sells plenty of $350-$400 plain DVD players. Or even if you consider video processors that sell for 1,500 and up, the BD and HD DVD players are within the realm of reality.

Yes, we'll have to see how much content will be there. I need to see more than animals and tennis and high school BB on HD....

my 2 cents...

Boss, I can well imagine the grin on your face when you turn on the DVD :) Picked out a movie yet?

I view mine from around 9 feet and have it at eye level, get the total immersion for movies in HD for sure!. Anyway, my wife would 'kill' me if she saw wires exposed anywhere around the set. We have the NEC in the living room and the Panny in the bedroom.

Probably a Pixar film the whole family can enjoy. Considering I'm a very avid scuba diver, I'd likely say Finding Nemo.

My living room is very non-HT friendly, so I have to deal with it as I can. The fireplace was the only way it was going to work unless I really wanted to goof up my viewing angles, and we won't even get into the surround sound headaches it would cause if I don't have the NEC on the mantle.

Don't worry, I'll be doing my best to conceal all my cables. I've just got it kinda "hodge-podged" together right now simply to run the break-in DVD. Once it is finished in 2 days or so, I'll be hooking up everything properly. I still need to go out and buy a component rack, and I'm waiting on my rear/center surround speakers.

I'd be doing backflips, but I've been fighting a very nasty viral infection in my head/chest. Speaking of which, time for Nyquill and bed... :)

I can't imagine paying $1K or more for one of the first uber-players AND then add the cost of the disks. I'm all for PQ, but I also need value - and it's going to be a while before I'm willing to step-up. I am not going to be sucked into buying disks *just* because they are BD or HD-DVD, and I think that is going to be a temptation to many of the early adopters. I'll wait until there is enough content available that I actually want to own.

Oh belive me, if money were less of a concern, I would be an early adopter of both formats with any and all discs they release. I just can't spend that kind of money and hope to still have vital organs intact, especially considering what I've dropped on the NEC & surround sound in the last week. :D

That and I just think this format war is petty BS, solely in place to make even more money for those greedy so-and-so's. Sony is arrogant enough to try it again, and honestly, I'd like to see them fall on their faces, just like with Betamax.

If I do get a BD player, it will be in the PS3. Word on the street though that the price will be in the $650-$750US price range. I doubt we're going to see the mass proliferation that Sony thinks they will have in a short timeframe at that price.

Oh well. Time will tell the tale regardless.....

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OTOH: The last time I was at a Tweeter they had the new 42 inch 60U Panny right next to the 42 or 43 inch Pio Elite and they had Narnia playing on all sets - it was apparent that the Panny had the best picture.

You referring to the Tweeter on Rt. 7 in Tysons Corner? If so, I may have to stop in there tomorrow... :D

You referring to the Tweeter on Rt. 7 in Tysons Corner? If so, I may have to stop in there tomorrow... :D
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Exactly! I live on Rt 7. 1 mile East of Tyson's Corner mall - so I've been the the BB, CC, Tweeter, the Sonystyle and Bang & Olufsen stores....Bang & Olufsen is the best place to check out the Panny 8UK series!

They have both the 500U and the Panny PX 60U, so make sure to look at the right one. You can also see that the new Panny has the better blacks and skin tones.

Needless to say, my wife hates all of them now ;)

Quick question. I'm considering getting the XR5 and have D* HD and plan on running it through hdmi to the panel. How would I run the 5.1 sound from this feed into my HK receiver to use in my home theatre system?

Quick question. I'm considering getting the XR5 and have D* HD and plan on running it through hdmi to the panel. How would I run the 5.1 sound from this feed into my HK receiver to use in my home theatre system?

Connect the digital/optical of the D* box to the digital/optical of the HK receiver.

Hey Simon, good stuff -

I'm in Sydney myself and have been looking at these panels for a little while.

Once you have had a chance to play with it, would love to know if you see any judder with moving images like the footie or not.

I couldn't see any judder, but I only saw it in-store and didn't watch any sports either....

Cheers,

Marcelo

Will do Marcelo, I think I can tolerate footy for that long :) I think tennis will be a good test too. I've only got a crappy LG STB so if it does judder, I won't be convinced it's the NEC.

So far, I've hardly watched it (I must be the only plasma owner who doesn't watch TV!). Been trying to optimise an HTPC to it (which is absolutely stunning).

Simon

cpcat had native going from another source than an HTPC (via HDMI from memory)
DCypher had native going from an HTPC (but I assume via HDMI)

Anyone got native going from an HTPC via VGA?

Is a 1:1 mapping for VGA indeed 1365x768? Or am I trying to achieve the impossible?

Now I've heard that 99% of graphics cards can only have resolutions in steps of 8 pixels, meaning I can only have horizontal resolutions of 1360 or 1368. DCypher got past this by defining the horizontal resolution of 1368 but defining a "back-end active" value of 1365. Unfortunately back-end active only applies to digital connections, not analog like VGA. Which means I can't get 1365.

Simon

Will do Marcelo, I think I can tolerate footy for that long :) I think tennis will be a good test too. I've only got a crappy LG STB so if it does judder, I won't be convinced it's the NEC.

So far, I've hardly watched it (I must be the only plasma owner who doesn't watch TV!). Been trying to optimise an HTPC to it (which is absolutely stunning).

Simon
Thanks Blana.... I'm hoping you're on the laptop while watching TV ... the footy is on tonight isn't it? ;)

I have attached a timings document which cpcat posted here before... this may help you .....

BTW: I don't watch 'footy' but will be watching the Soccer World Cup.....

Hey Simon, good stuff -

I'm in Sydney myself and have been looking at these panels for a little while.

Once you have had a chance to play with it, would love to know if you see any judder with moving images like the footie or not.

I couldn't see any judder, but I only saw it in-store and didn't watch any sports either....

Cheers,

Marcelo

Ok, wached some footy and my conclusion is....

no judder!!

It was very smooth. I'd like to do some more testing however, because my hopeless LG set top box (present from ex-wife) no longer outputs out the VGA or DVI sockets, so I'm running it via component, and I guess it doesn't support HD over component as it was doing 576i. It started breaking up too (as in digital drop outs) - channel 9 does that.

Waiting for a new dual-tuner PC card to be released, so I'm tolerating the LG. At least their washing machines seem to work ok.

What I'd like to know is how did my ex-wife know the LG would frustrate me so much. I thought she was being nice at first...

cpcat had native going from another source than an HTPC (via HDMI from memory)
DCypher had native going from an HTPC (but I assume via HDMI)

Anyone got native going from an HTPC via VGA?

Is a 1:1 mapping for VGA indeed 1365x768? Or am I trying to achieve the impossible?

Simon

I think you'll find that 1360 x 768 will work on VGA but that's as close as you'll get. 1:1 will require that you leave a few unused horizontal pixels black.

NEC and Fuji have both done this for some time, not sure why. A few generations back, NEC created the 1365 x 768 timing but it will only work over DVI/HDMI according to NEC.

Ok, wached some footy and my conclusion is....

no judder!!

It was very smooth. I'd like to do some more testing however, because my hopeless LG set top box (present from ex-wife) no longer outputs out the VGA or DVI sockets, so I'm running it via component, and I guess it doesn't support HD over component as it was doing 576i. It started breaking up too (as in digital drop outs) - channel 9 does that.

Waiting for a new dual-tuner PC card to be released, so I'm tolerating the LG. At least their washing machines seem to work ok.

What I'd like to know is how did my ex-wife know the LG would frustrate me so much. I thought she was being nice at first...

Thanks Blana!! - yap, channel 9 transmission of sports can leave something to be desired sometimes.... thanks for having a look!

LG & ex-wives.... I know what to do to both of them ......

One other thing to remember in the whole 1080p debate is that it is very, very, very unlikely that any player that supports 1080p over HDMI will also not support 1080i over HDMI.

And since the movies are going to be 1080p24 anyway, having a 1080p60 input is really no advantage.

It's not quite this simple. All that's required to get 1080p60 from 1080p24 is simple frame duplication. Then the only step remaining is scaling 1080p60 to 768p60. So, outputting 1080p60 from the player and scaling it to 768p60 in the display should be almost a straight path and relatively simple computationally.

1080i input will require the display to inverse telecine to recreate 1080p24 which can be prone to errors and dropped frames. I'm sure it will still look fine and I'm not trying to create a panic here.:)

1080p24 input capability would also be a theoretical advantage as that would allow native signal input to the display.

Anyone got native going from an HTPC via VGA?

Is a 1:1 mapping for VGA indeed 1365x768? Or am I trying to achieve the impossible?


Via VGA the 1:1 mapping resolution is 1360x768.

I have my HTPC connected that way right now and I get 2 black columns on the left and 3 on the right, or vice-versa.

I have a new video card on the way that will let me do 1365x768 via HDMI but the picture via VGA is no slouch.

Ok, wached some footy and my conclusion is....

no judder!!

It was very smooth. I'd like to do some more testing however, because my hopeless LG set top box (present from ex-wife) no longer outputs out the VGA or DVI sockets, so I'm running it via component, and I guess it doesn't support HD over component as it was doing 576i. It started breaking up too (as in digital drop outs) - channel 9 does that.

Waiting for a new dual-tuner PC card to be released, so I'm tolerating the LG. At least their washing machines seem to work ok.

What I'd like to know is how did my ex-wife know the LG would frustrate me so much. I thought she was being nice at first...
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No judder for soccer was all I wanted to hear!!! awesome. I know the Pioneers have all sorts of problems with soccer. I got nervous because I saw it on a set at BB and got me nervous since the NEC seems to be so close to the Pioneers in terms of picture quality. This is great....

Another happy XR5 owner from Chris at Cleveland Plasma! Now the 100 hour countdown...

.I am going to just throw this out. I might be talking through one of my... other organs.
I had some electrical problems in my home and called PG&E. A lineman came out and changed the power couplings and negative ground at the pole. It has been 4 days now.
I the PQ in my xr5 has improved quite at bit. It was great before but the PQ is more 35mm. colors are deeper and the PQ is more 3D. I am not in the power conditioning camp- do not know much about them nor seen a before/after shootout. (I have dedicated lines for the plasma and dedicated line for EQ.). I’ll keep you posted
dB

I'm not surprised that you are seeing a better quality picture. A/C can cause a lot of inteference in audio & video signals.

Power conditioners will remove this interference noise from both the video source and audio source.

It's not quite this simple. All that's required to get 1080p60 from 1080p24 is simple frame duplication. Then the only step remaining is scaling 1080p60 to 768p60. So, outputting 1080p60 from the player and scaling it to 768p60 in the display should be almost a straight path and relatively simple computationally.

1080i input will require the display to inverse telecine to recreate 1080p24 which can be prone to errors and dropped frames. I'm sure it will still look fine and I'm not trying to create a panic here.:)

1080p24 input capability would also be a theoretical advantage as that would allow native signal input to the display.

--------------------

At least in the case of Blu Ray Sony says they will not downgrade over component.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16565

I have always preferred components over HDMI. I use components for both my NEC and Panny and could never tell the difference between component and HDMI!

So, I'm still eyeing that BD Player for now :)

-----------

No judder for soccer was all I wanted to hear!!! awesome. I know the Pioneers have all sorts of problems with soccer. I got nervous because I saw it on a set at BB and got me nervous since the NEC seems to be so close to the Pioneers in terms of picture quality. This is great....

Unfortunately in Australia footy is rugby, not soccer, so I can't comment on whether soccer has judder or not. I'll report back when some soccer (I mean real football) comes on. I'd be surprised if it does though.

Simon

Via VGA the 1:1 mapping resolution is 1360x768.

I have my HTPC connected that way right now and I get 2 black columns on the left and 3 on the right, or vice-versa.

I have a new video card on the way that will let me do 1365x768 via HDMI but the picture via VGA is no slouch.

That's good to hear - I didn't know if the XR5 was going to scale 1360 up to 1365 or not or add black columns.

Thanks,

Simon

What color is the back of the 50XR5? I'm trying to pick a color for the peerless tilt mount :)


Also, would it make a super huger difference to power condition the XR5? If it does, I'd have to run a long extension to my equipment rack..

--------------------

At least in the case of Blu Ray Sony says they will not downgrade over component.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16565

I have always preferred components over HDMI. I use components for both my NEC and Panny and could never tell the difference between component and HDMI!

So, I'm still eyeing that BD Player for now :)

I think this whole issue of output from BD/HD-DVD needs a little further clarification. It's taken me a while to get my head around it as well. Here is how I understand it:

It's a very similar situation to the way DVD is now. You can either output 480p60 from the player or 480i. 480i is considered "native signal" for DVD but for a film source your display still have to inverse telecine the signal and frame duplicate it to 480p60 inside the display. Alternatively, the player can perform the same off the disc and ouput 480p60. People differ as to what they prefer and it likely depends on multiple factors including the quality of the display's processing as well as the quality of the player.

BD/HD-DVD should be very similar for a film-sourced disc. Either you ouput 1080i and the display performs IVT/frame duplication to 1080p60 or it can be done inside the player. The only difference is that no one is really referring to 1080i as "native signal" for BD/HD-DVD which is probably the confusing aspect.

Unfortunately, you are correct. Everything is compressed and even bit-starved.

In general: OTA , cable, sat feeds in order of increasing bit-starvation of the feed. As you said, it's possible for OTA to be compressed even further depending on mulitcasting, etc. I wouldn't even assume InHD over cable is as good as it could be. Hopefully, we'll have a new "player" first on the list soon: "BD" or "HD-DVD". BD will still utilize MPEG2 but at least will offer a max bitrate of 54 mb/s which is almost 3x the best we're seeing now.

ATSC, or "OTA HD", only allows for one (1) program per TS. That program can contain only one (1) video stream, but may contain multiple audio streams. Thus the video bitrate can be very high to maximize the use of the 19.4 Mbps transport rate.

I have attached a timings document which cpcat posted here before... this may help you .....


Hey cpcat, where did you get the pdf with the EDID data? And is this the EDID from the XR5 or XM5?

.

Via VGA the 1:1 mapping resolution is 1360x768.

I have my HTPC connected that way right now and I get 2 black columns on the left and 3 on the right, or vice-versa.

I have a new video card on the way that will let me do 1365x768 via HDMI but the picture via VGA is no slouch.

What video card are you getting?

.

What video card are you getting?


Gigabyte fanless 6600GT.

ATSC, or "OTA HD", only allows for one (1) program per TS. That program can contain only one (1) video stream, but may contain multiple audio streams. Thus the video bitrate can be very high to maximize the use of the 19.4 Mbps transport rate.

Can you explain this a little further? What is a "TS"? I'm sure you are aware that multicasting of one HD channel with one or even 2 SD subchannels is very common. Commonly an SD subchannel will take up around 4mb/s while a weather radar can take as little as 2mb/s. 19mb/s is still the maximum bitrate/bandwidth for the channel regardless. It's rarer and rarer to find a station that allows the entire 19mb/s to be dedicated to the HD feed. Considering that, BD will allow up to 54 mb/s.

Hey cpcat, where did you get the pdf with the EDID data? And is this the EDID from the XR5 or XM5?

.

Not sure which one you're referring to. The one I use with the Lumagen HDP actually came from NEC. There are some other timings posted by Dcypher which he had to modify a bit to work with the Nvidia card.

The timings should be the same for HDMI/DVI for both the XR5 and the XM5 respectively.

Both can be found at the front of the tweaks thread:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7449726#post7449726

I think anders is confusing the transport stread (TS) that the MPEG-2 is carried in with the QAM carrier that carries the channels.

I think anders is confusing the transport stread (TS) that the MPEG-2 is carried in with the QAM carrier that carries the channels.

O.K. Over my head a little. But I still don't think that will prevent multicasting from starving the bandwidth.

AFAIK many cable co.'s still get their local digital feeds OTA so will still be subject to effects from multicasting. I know of at least one station near me that provides their main feed via fiber to the cable co. though. In that situation, theoretically, mulitcasting may not matter.

What color is the back of the 50XR5? I'm trying to pick a color for the peerless tilt mount :)


Also, would it make a super huger difference to power condition the XR5? If it does, I'd have to run a long extension to my equipment rack..

Very dark grayish-black.

Some believe yes. I would say it probably depends on your situation. My house was built in 1930, so I'm sure I have a whole lot of interference going on in my power lines.

I'll probably go and pick up a line conditioner and try it out. If I don't see a difference, back it will go. I'm already using an APC surge suppressor.

My equipment rack and the monster power center unit is in another room. Would it make sense to run a long extension wire through the walls to the other room into the power center?

I have this power center anyways that will be used for my other components anyhow.

Gigabyte fanless 6600GT.
Nice.....

Thanks for the clarification regarding my earlier question about HDMI vs. component inputs for DVD players everyone. I'm curious, though, what all of *you* use for your component settings. I've checked out all the available settings, and the vast majority of them seem to be optimized for HDMI inputs. I understand about pedestal, but I find it hard to believe that you all just increase that when you switch to component. The picture quality from doing so - for me a least - isn't exactly optimal.

So what do you guys do? Just adjust pedestal level? Do you have other settings for component inputs? If so, would you share?

Thanks again for everything. :)

The settings for black levels for HDMI/DVI with HDMI set to "high" in setup menu and setup pedestal at zero seem more or less equivalent to component input with setup pedestal at 3.75. This obviously can vary some with equipment and it's possible it could even vary significantly .

To really be sure, you'll have to pick up AVIA, DVE, or use some other equivalent test patterns and compare the settings yourself. This will require a DVD player or other source with test patterns that has both HDMI/DVI and component outputs.

So what do you guys do? Just adjust pedestal level? Do you have other settings for component inputs? If so, would you share?


If I get a chance this weekend I'll hook up my PVR via Component and repeat my calibration for those inputs.

OK, as it turns out I got a chance just after posting this.

First comment, the SA8300HD appears to not pass BTB via component since I could not see the BTB bar in the pluge. That is somewhat disconcerting from a correct behaviour perspective and makes the setup harder.

So, I eyeballed the grey bar in the pluge to be the same intensity as the grey bar via HDMI, which does pass BTB.

When all was said and done, all I ended up changing from the defaults was turning down colour to 28. This is with SET UP set to zero and in normal picture mode.

One note. These settings are probably only valid for HD output from a SA8300HD. Component output from a DVD player will likely be completely different assuming the DVD player doesn't clip BTB.

OK, as it turns out I got a chance just after posting this.

First comment, the SA8300HD appears to not pass BTB via component since I could not see the BTB bar in the pluge. That is somewhat disconcerting from a correct behaviour perspective and makes the setup harder.

So, I eyeballed the grey bar in the pluge to be the same intensity as the grey bar via HDMI, which does pass BTB.

When all was said and done, all I ended up changing from the defaults was turning down colour to 28. This is with SET UP set to zero and in normal picture mode.

One note. These settings are probably only valid for HD output from a SA8300HD. Component output from a DVD player will likely be completely different assuming the DVD player doesn't clip BTB.

So, if I have this correct, you are saying that HDMI set to "low" in the setup menu with setup pedestal at zero is about equivalent to component input with setup pedestal at zero? That would make sense.

If you use AVIA, it is not necessary to have below black to set the black level. OTOH AVIA isn't HD (yet). In my experience, though, black level/contrast seem pretty consistent as long as you compare 480p,720p,1080i signals. 480i for some reason seems to vary with some displays.

So, if I have this correct, you are saying that HDMI set to "low" in the setup menu with setup pedestal at zero is about equivalent to component input with setup pedestal at zero? That would make sense.

If you use AVIA, it is not necessary to have below black to set the black level. OTOH AVIA isn't HD (yet).

WRT to the pedestal question, yes. I believe so.

On the AVIA front, you are correct, since AVIA does not contain BTB. However, there has been much debate around the need for passing BTB, and I'm in the camp that it should be sent to the display and the display setup to not have it visible.

The fact that the component output of the 8300HD is not sending BTB would mean that in low intensity scenes the signal processing in the set is working off of truncated data. The visible effects of this has been debated, umm, vigourously in the calibration forum.

How is the sound quaility of the NEC's using the NEC attached speakers? Also, do the NEC's include any of those "simulated surround sound" modes like the Panny's and some others do ?

I have a lg 511 connected via hdmi at 480i to my nec, the pq it's ok , I was thinking to upgrade the player with a pioneer or denon , at tweeter the salesman told me it didn't make sense with the toshiba due next week, so I went ahead and ordered the player he also said few titles will be released next week.
I forgot to ask how well the new hddvd will play the standard dvd's and if It would be better to use use the component at 480i instead of hdmi.

another newb question - I realised that the channels we watch most oftern on dishnetwork show a logo on the bottom right corner... any concern with burn-in? (have a 50xr5 on order...)

8 months of looking,reading now it's time to have fun.
I was going to get the 50XR5 but I new it wasn't what I really wanted.
More posts to follow. Thanks for all the help.

another newb question - I realised that the channels we watch most oftern on dishnetwork show a logo on the bottom right corner... any concern with burn-in? (have a 50xr5 on order...)

Gald to see you joined the club! :cool:

LisaM and others can correct me if I'm wrong, but for the first 100 hours or so, if you watch the TV in "stadium" or "2.35:1" mode, it will scale it all the way in on the picture and you shouldn't have much to worry about. I just said "heck with it" and am running the break-in DVD. It's probably on about hour 85-90 right now, so by tomorrow afternoon, we'll be watching movies!

8 months of looking,reading now it's time to have fun.
I was going to get the 50XR5 but I new it wasn't what I really wanted.
More posts to follow. Thanks for all the help.

Nemker, you suck...just kidding. But seriously, what are you going to do with that glass wall?

Nemker, you suck...just kidding. But seriously, what are you going to do with that glass wall?

Heh, considering how big my XR5 looks to me (and I've had a 50" screen before), I couldn't imagine that beast. Well I could, but then I'd have to sleep in the box that it came in when the wife found out. :D

Tomorrow is the day. I'll have my 100+ hours of break-in completed, and my component rack will be assembled. The XR5 will be fired up for the first time as an actual display, not a RGBGWB (red-green-blue-grey-white-black) displaying piece of glass. :D

With all the talk of Oppo's current offering and their new 480i over HDMI player, I've been thinking, which would be better, one of those, or using the HTPC I've already got? Considering the HTPC will be connected to the XR5 all the time (as well as another CRT monitor - video card supports dual out), would it be wise to use it instead (with minor upgrades)? Here's a quick rundown of the PCs specs, I built it about 2 years ago:

Asus mobo
P4 2.8GHz 800MHz FSB
1GB RAM
80GB main HDD - 200GB slave "storage" HDD
Creative X-Gamer sound card (older version - don't know if 5.1 supported - doubt it)
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB AGP video card VGA & DVI out (supports dual monitors)
TDK DVD+-RW drive

So what do you think? Use the HTPC, or go with a standalone DVD player such as the Oppo?

Go with the HTPC.

TheaterTek with ffdshow using the VGA connection will smoke the Oppo. Unfortunately that vintage of ATI card (I have a 9700Pro) won't let you send native resolution via HDMI. However you can get 1:1 mapping at 1360x768 over VGA.

I've got an Nvidia 6600GT on the way which is supposed to be better than the ATI plus it supports native resolution over DVI/HDMI.

It will wall mount 2" above a custom cabinet(my answer as to what to about the center speaker and hide all the electronics). I'll be sitting about 18' away.

I have a 50" sd rp now and I have the room for a 60". For quite awhile I was reved up about rp's but then I wanted to get away with the big box look.

My wife is OK about all of this but I suspect she will want pay back

I think anders is confusing the transport stread (TS) that the MPEG-2 is carried in with the QAM carrier that carries the channels.

No. TS (Transport Stream) is not carried in a QAM signal on OTA. ATSC uses 8VSB modulation, not QAM. Cable head ends use QAM, typically QAM64 or 256.

.

ATSC, or "OTA HD", only allows for one (1) program per TS. That program can contain only one (1) video stream, but may contain multiple audio streams. Thus the video bitrate can be very high to maximize the use of the 19.4 Mbps transport rate.

No. TS (Transport Stream) is not carried in a QAM signal on OTA. ATSC uses 8VSB modulation, not QAM. Cable head ends use QAM, typically QAM64 or 256.

.

So maybe you could clarify what point you were trying to make originally? We were discussing OTA bandwidth limitations and it sounded like you were indicating the bandwidth would be preserved regardless of number of subchannels carried.

Can you explain this a little further? What is a "TS"? I'm sure you are aware that multicasting of one HD channel with one or even 2 SD subchannels is very common. Commonly an SD subchannel will take up around 4mb/s while a weather radar can take as little as 2mb/s. 19mb/s is still the maximum bitrate/bandwidth for the channel regardless. It's rarer and rarer to find a station that allows the entire 19mb/s to be dedicated to the HD feed. Considering that, BD will allow up to 54 mb/s.

For ATSC terrestrial broadcast (modulated on an 8VSB signal) program delivery is over an MPEG-TS (Transport Stream) at the maximum rate of 19.39 Mbsp in a 6MHz channel.
Yes, in MPEG-TS, you *can* have multiple video streams muxed, however, for ATSC, the MPEG2 spec is constrained further allowing at most ONE MPEG2 video elementary stream.
So, for an OTA broacast, broadcasters have 19.39Mbps dedicated to a single program, or "channel of content".

Make sense?

-anders.

Anyone hooked up their NEC XR5 to an Oppo DVD player? I haven't seen any posting regarding any issues with the Oppo (via HMDI) so I am assuming there are no known issues....

I will post a review on this

Anyone out there using a Denon AVR-3802 receiver? Mine is hooked up to my 50XM5 via S-video to Video 3; HDTivo is connected via DVI. When I mute or unmute the receiver, the picture shifts for a few seconds. If I unplug the S-Vid cable it doesn't happen. My prior TV was connected this same way but didn't have this issue.

rubinjm, just being nosey, but what are you running into the XM5 on S-Video?

For ATSC terrestrial broadcast (modulated on an 8VSB signal) program delivery is over an MPEG-TS (Transport Stream) at the maximum rate of 19.39 Mbsp in a 6MHz channel.
Yes, in MPEG-TS, you *can* have multiple video streams muxed, however, for ATSC, the MPEG2 spec is constrained further allowing at most ONE MPEG2 video elementary stream.
So, for an OTA broacast, broadcasters have 19.39Mbps dedicated to a single program, or "channel of content".

Make sense?

-anders.

So are you saying multicasting effects picture quality or not? If you are saying it doesn't, I disagree wholeheartedly. The 6 mhz channel has a finite bandwidth and the more you try to squeeze through, the more potential for diminishing overall pq. It's very obvious to me especially if 2 or more subchannels are on with the main feed.

Additionally, with BD having a 54mb/s bitrate, it will still be very likely that we'll see better pq than even the best OTA now.

rubinjm, just being nosey, but what are you running into the XM5 on S-Video?

Setup menu for the 3802 & S-VHS.

I added slightly revised settings that can be used for either normal or bright mode depending on preference to the tweak thread if anyone is interested. They aren't very different at all from the prior set. I guess I am more of the "incremental" type. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7457413#post7457413

Breaking news...Running speaker wire stinks...That is all. :D

Ok, wached some footy and my conclusion is....

no judder!!

It was very smooth. I'd like to do some more testing however, because my hopeless LG set top box (present from ex-wife) no longer outputs out the VGA or DVI sockets, so I'm running it via component, and I guess it doesn't support HD over component as it was doing 576i. It started breaking up too (as in digital drop outs) - channel 9 does that.

Waiting for a new dual-tuner PC card to be released, so I'm tolerating the LG. At least their washing machines seem to work ok.

What I'd like to know is how did my ex-wife know the LG would frustrate me so much. I thought she was being nice at first...

Hi Blana, how far away are you seating from the XR5? is about 2 - 2.5m ok for out TV content in Australia?

Cheers,

Marcelo

Well, just finished watching my first movies and TV on the XR5

1) Finding Nemo - Colors were absolutely gorgeous. Nearly messed my drawers, front and back. :eek: :D

2) Star Wars Ep III - Even the wife commented that the picture looked better than the HD WS CRT Sony the NEC is replacing. This was big for her, because she has always been a proponent of CRT.

3) DirecTV HD - Stunning. Just as good if not better than before.

4) DirecTV SD - Overall, I'm impressed how good it actually looks. Some stations look much better than others, so the old axiom that "The source is just as important as the display" definitely holds true.

Keep in mind that all these sources were via component. I can't wait to start watching stuff via HDMI.

My only complaint is that I spent all day today running wires for my speakers/sub/receiver setup, but I must have done something wrong, as I had no sound and was forced to hook up my old 2.1 shelf system (which still rocks after 15 years! :cool: )

Maybe I can find a local AVS'er to lend me some help.

Quick question - I started watching EP III in anamorphic WS, but I was worried about the black bars on top and bottom, so I used the Zoom setting on the NEC. How long should I go before I can stop worrying about burn-in? I ran the break-in DVD for over 110 hours, but I want to be careful. On the other hand, I'd like to start using the NEC as a monitor and play some games on the PS2, and I don't want health meters or scoreboards to burn-in. When is it "safe" (I know, subjective I'm sure) to start using Anamorphic on movies and DirecTV, and to play videogames on the NEC?

Thanks everyone, lovin' every minute of this! (except the audio setup part of it :D)

Hi Blana, how far away are you seating from the XR5? is about 2 - 2.5m ok for out TV content in Australia?

Cheers,

Marcelo

That's about 7 feet, right? If so, I'd suggest at least 10 feet (3.5m) away for a good distance. I'm about 12-13 feet away, and I love it!

They are actually very well hidden as the inputs are about 4-5 inches in. Route the wires to the middle of panel and all is well. Someone will have to be looking from the side to see the wires. I would say the only time a person would need the cover would be if there was a hall entrance on the right side of the panel. (If you are facing the front of the panel the inputs are on the right.)

This is exactly how my set-up will be. Hallway and stairs to the right. From every spot in the house you will be able to see the inputs. Inputs and outputs are always on the wrong side of electronics, notice that? I will be buying mine on the 28th this month.

So are you saying multicasting effects picture quality or not? If you are saying it doesn't, I disagree wholeheartedly. The 6 mhz channel has a finite bandwidth and the more you try to squeeze through, the more potential for diminishing overall pq. It's very obvious to me especially if 2 or more subchannels are on with the main feed.

No. I did not think that was what I was saying. I was mearly stating that an ATSC OTA HD broadcast does *not* have multiple video streams, since as per the ATSC spec you can only have 1 video stream. Thus, the video quality of an OTA HD feed can be quite good.


Additionally, with BD having a 54mb/s bitrate, it will still be very likely that we'll see better pq than even the best OTA now.
I don't know much about the blue ray technology yet... but, Indeed, blue ray content could have better picture quality. It certainly has a higher data rate to accomodate.

OK, enough of this now. I'm starting to feel like I'm at work :D

out.

Quick question - I started watching EP III in anamorphic WS, but I was worried about the black bars on top and bottom, so I used the Zoom setting on the NEC. How long should I go before I can stop worrying about burn-in? I ran the break-in DVD for over 110 hours, but I want to be careful. On the other hand, I'd like to start using the NEC as a monitor and play some games on the PS2, and I don't want health meters or scoreboards to burn-in. When is it "safe" (I know, subjective I'm sure) to start using Anamorphic on movies and DirecTV, and to play videogames on the NEC?

Thanks everyone, lovin' every minute of this! (except the audio setup part of it :D)

I think it's safe for you now as long as you continue to vary the programming. You may see a ghost image of the black bars after watching a 2.35:1 movie which will go away after a few minutes of full screen programming. If this bothers you, you can also consider using the 2.35:1 mode which should get rid of the bars.

That's about 7 feet, right? If so, I'd suggest at least 10 feet (3.5m) away for a good distance. I'm about 12-13 feet away, and I love it!

Thanks Boss, I want to buy a 50" but I'm afraid my seating distance is too short and I will have eye strain at 7 feet .... the 42" can always go to bedroom duty if I end up getting used to it too quickly ;)

This is exactly how my set-up will be. Hallway and stairs to the right. From every spot in the house you will be able to see the inputs. Inputs and outputs are always on the wrong side of electronics, notice that? I will be buying mine on the 28th this month.
In cases like this that is why they make the side input cover. I will say it is easier to get to the inputs with them being on the side especially if you are using a low profile mount.

I hate to say it guys but the trend is starting again. They will be pushed of agian, and when they finally come out they will be in short supply or impossible to find. It is to bad because these are an easy sale for dealers who have them.
This doesn't bode well, does it? Panasonic should call the 600U's the Ltd. Edition 9G Plasma. Each unit could have an engraved signature of the head of Panasonic Consumer Electronics above the serial number. There will be waiting lists with people auctioning off thier place in line on ebay. Anyone with a new in box unit will be able to sell for giga profit margin like XBOX 360's during last XMAS. Only shysters and low level operatives will be able to acquire them at MSRP. No, it doesn't bode well for the elusive, almost mythical 600U series. :(
Actually, these are quotes from the Panny thread, which I have been following since CES in January, looking forward to the new Panny 600U...just wanted to point out why I switched over from WAITING for a 600U, to ENJOYING a new NEC for the last several weeks! Thanks to Chris for pointing out the comparison, and superiority of NECs. I finally saw the Panny 60U in BB this weekend, and about gagged - they are SOooooo tacky looking with all that silver! Yech! While the 600s have a higher quality look than the 60s (whoever in their right minds designed those duck feet stands?) (and I'm sure technologically, they are a great screen), I'm certainly never looking back. Anyone checking out this NEC thread who is still waiting for the 600s, and considering switching over to the NEC, will not be disappointed (in fact, you'll be well-rewarded for considering the alternative)!

I may eat my words, but it seems to me Panasonic may be going the way of Philips/RCA CRT's. They are catering to the masses which is fine for them and the masses, but I'd say this is the point where it starts to lose them shares with enthusiasts like us. I wouldn't even consider a consumer Panny at this point if I were buying.

Actually, these are quotes from the Panny thread, which I have been following since CES in January, looking forward to the new Panny 600U...just wanted to point out why I switched over from WAITING for a 600U, to ENJOYING a new NEC for the last several weeks! Thanks to Chris for pointing out the comparison, and superiority of NECs. I finally saw the Panny 60U in BB this weekend, and about gagged - they are SOooooo tacky looking with all that silver! Yech! While the 600s have a higher quality look (and I'm sure technologically, they are a great screen), I'm certainly never looking back. Anyone checking out this NEC thread, waiting for the 600s, and considering switching over to the NEC, will not be disappointed (in fact, you'll be well-rewarded for considering the alternative)!
I agree with this post 100%. To many people look strictly at specs and hardly at all at the physical appearance of your new display. I take both into consideration when purchasing a display. I looked at an endless list of plasma displays before deciding on the NEC XR5. This is one sexy sleek display. I can't wait to finally get it mounted on my wall! I have to make a few modifications to the wall before this will happen though. When you buy a display for several thousand dollars, don't you want it to look good both powered on and off? If you read through this thread, you will become well aware that the NEC brand is the hidden gem in the plasma world. You will surely love this display whether it be the 42", 50", or the 61.......... So many knowledgable consumers can't be wrong. :)

Alright, I am getting ready for the preparation for install of my XR5. I am debating on the placement of the display. I have two options right now. One spot has a viewing distance of 10.5 feet, and the other is approx. 15" or so. At 15 feet the display looks pretty far away. At 10' the display looks like it may get overwhelming, not sure though. I really don't want to regret placement of this display, because when it's mounted, that will be it's final resting place. Any opinions before I tackle this project? :confused:

I agree with this post 100%. To many people look strictly at specs and hardly at all at the physical appearance of your new display. I take both into consideration when purchasing a display. I looked at an endless list of plasma displays before deciding on the NEC XR5. This is one sexy sleek display. I can't wait to finally get it mounted on my wall! I have to make a few modifications to the wall before this will happen though. When you buy a display for several thousand dollars, don't you want it to look good both powered on and off? If you read through this thread, you will become well aware that the NEC brand is the hidden gem in the plasma world. You will surely love this display whether it be the 42", 50", or the 61.......... So many knowledgable consumers can't be wrong. :)

Double ditto.

Now if I could only get that audio issue figured out......

If it comes down to it, what is a reasonable rate to pay someone to come in and troubleshoot my audio cable setup?

Alright, I am getting ready for the preparation for install of my XR5. I am debating on the placement of the display. I have two options right now. One spot has a viewing distance of 10.5 feet, and the other is approx. 15" or so. At 15 feet the display looks pretty far away. At 10' the display looks like it may get overwhelming, not sure though. I really don't want to regret placement of this display, because when it's mounted, that will be it's final resting place. Any opinions before I tackle this project? :confused:

Are those definite distances, no wiggle room at all?

If so, I'd definitely go for 10.5 feet. It may be slightly closer than you'd want to be, but 15 feet sounds to me like it would be too far.

I may eat my words, but it seems to me Panasonic may be going the way of Philips/RCA CRT's. They are catering to the masses which is fine for them and the masses, but I'd say this is the point where it starts to lose them shares with enthusiasts like us. I wouldn't even consider a consumer Panny at this point if I were buying.
Not to, Me Too! too much, but I just spent the weekend at pops house helping him setup his new 60U upclose and personal. First, the picture is excellent as one would expect with a panasonic, and was pretty good out of the box on standard, but, case and stand, stability, aesthetics (everyone nows how much I think of the NEC stand) exterior build quality, not there, and adjustability in the main menu not there, and some of the menus/info seemed to be "dumbed down", the manual is pretty short no mention of anamorphic etc, did't like the way it selects inputs etc, can't move re-adjust the menu etc, lots of controls that I have become used to are missing. I also think some of these thing would have been a bit over burdening to Dad, so in that respect it is a great fit, pretty east to use right out of the box, "Not A-billion-6 things you have to adjust" (Pops is very sharp, just not overly interested in this stuff). However the glass itself looked excellent and the picture excellent SD looked very good (no HD Yet) and Narnia Was Awesome from an inexpensive DVD player, so it doing what it is supposed to. I think Panny is making great glass, then cutting corners to hit their price and adjusting their taget audience, the masses i.e. consumer reports crowd (not to knock CR but as cpcat said... the non-enthusiast crowd)... ahh back at home with my NEC.

EDIT: OH... Forgot to mention, some minor IR, pretty much exactly what I see on my NEC, leave a menu up for a bit, see a little IR, put on Full screen gone in seconds... basically exactly the same.

Anyone hooked up their NEC XR5 to an Oppo DVD player? I haven't seen any posting regarding any issues with the Oppo (via HMDI) so I am assuming there are no known issues....

I will post a review on this
Hey plazman curious what you think...
Here is a little sub-thread on NEC paired with Oppo a little earlier
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7426058&highlight=oppo#post7426058

I finally saw the Panny 60U in BB this weekend, and about gagged - they are SOooooo tacky looking with all that silver! Yech!
Me too. I actually saw them in two stores while visiting in Albuquerque.

Torch mode pretty much all around (surprise?), but still some interesting comparisons to be made.

The most telling was a 50" 60U sitting below a Pio 4361 (closest comparison to NEC PQ?) While both were too vivid, the Pany was downright awful, to include very noticeable clayface, while running the same feed. I didn't have time to grab the remotes to try to tweak either, but the difference in cosmetics made it all moot for me anyway. I would have to spraypaint the Pany black!

The NEC is a thing of beauty IMO, and you don't even have to turn it on! :D

Are those definite distances, no wiggle room at all?

If so, I'd definitely go for 10.5 feet. It may be slightly closer than you'd want to be, but 15 feet sounds to me like it would be too far.
The 10.5' measurement is pretty close to dead on. The 15' measurement is probably a little more like 16' with a viewer reclined in my sectional. I am leaning towards the 10.5' spot, but at the 16' spot I could cut out a spot in the wall and hide my components behind a glass door. Man this is really a tough call.

Not to, Me Too! too much, but I just spent the weekend at pops house helping him setup his new 60U upclose and personal. First, the picture is excellent as one would expect with a panasonic, and was pretty good out of the box on standard, but, case and stand, stability, aesthetics (everyone nows how much I think of the NEC stand) exterior build quality, not there, and adjustability in the main menu not there, and some of the menus/info seemed to be "dumbed down", the manual is pretty short no mention of anamorphic etc, did't like the way it selects inputs etc, can't move re-adjust the menu etc, lots of controls that I have become used to are missing. I also think some of these thing would have been a bit over burdening to Dad, so in that respect it is a great fit, pretty east to use right out of the box, "Not A-billion-6 things you have to adjust" (Pops is very sharp, just not overly interested in this stuff). However the glass itself looked excellent and the picture excellent SD looked very good (no HD Yet) and Narnia Was Awesome from an inexpensive DVD player, so it doing what it is supposed to. I think Panny is making great glass, then cutting corners to hit their price and adjusting their taget audience, the masses i.e. consumer reports crowd (not to knock CR but as cpcat said... the non-enthusiast crowd)... ahh back at home with my NEC.

EDIT: OH... Forgot to mention, some minor IR, pretty much exactly what I see on my NEC, leave a menu up for a bit, see a little IR, put on Full screen gone in seconds... basically exactly the same.

Well... I set up my buddy's 42" 60U this weekend.
It has a great PQ. Really. The menu and adjustability leaves a lot to be desired... unless one is a 'typical consumer'. The adjustments are actually TOO MUCH for my friend. They are too much for many, and I think that anyone who believes that Panny's are for the masses is exactly correct.

Panny produces a damn fine panel. I was able to tweak this new PDP to a very good PQ without it being too punchy... as it's brand new. The owner and his wife were thrilled to death! I don't blame them... this is as close to a plug-and-play plasma as you can currently get.

Ugly... oh you bet. The silver plastic is hideous (JMHO), but many consumers don't mind it. Even my wife said... "You know, when the lights were down it was not noticeable". True... but the rest of the time, ugh. Keeping it behind the closed cabinet doors during the day and releasing it to sight only just before watching it is one way around the cheese.

That said, I am not interested in one of these for myself. While an excellent purchase for the masses, I want more Tweak-ability to my controls. I want the simple - elegant frame of the NEC (or Panny commercial - 8UK) units.

The NEC seems like the perfect combination of adjustability and elegance... combined with a brilliant panel (but so does the 8UK). I have still not seen one in person, but I hope to soon. I just ordered a 42" Panny 8UK and can relegate it to the bedroom if it doesn't fit my purposes. It is more of a trial PDP for me. I want to see the NEC before ordering... sorry, my *leap-of-faith* ability is not as great as all of yours.

Anyway... just wanted to weigh-in on the Panny 60U issue, having just experienced it. I really want a 50xr5. :D

cheers

shane

Have you read all of the reviews from those of us that have taken the "leap of faith"? We are all very satisfied and thrilled with our sight unseen purchase. What more do you need? You will not be let down by the NEC. :) By the way, if you wanted a trial PDP, you should have bought the 42" NEC.

Have you read all of the reviews from those of us that have taken the "leap of faith"? We are all very satisfied and thrilled with our sight unseen purchase. What more do you need? You will not be let down by the NEC. :) By the way, if you wanted a trial PDP, you should have bought the 42" NEC.


Have I READ these testimonials? I've MEMORIZED them! :D

Yes, of course I could have gotten the 42" NEC, but here where I work, we have scads of 8UK's... mostly 50's. So I am very familiar with the PQ. I figured this was a sure thing... kinda no-brainer. And I like no-brainers. :)

Besides, if I didn't trust the word of all you experts, I wouldn't even be considering the NEC. ;)

shane

just quick Q?- regarding closed caption.
( we where in the middle of a movie , last night so i didn't really want to stop and play w/ it)
I clicked the closed caption button on the DVD player and nothing came out. I will not be able to work on this untill to night ( i have a inlaw visting that needs the CC) do i have to change the CC setting on the xr also? to make the cc work.
I know i can figure it out but just thought to save time.
Need it for both DVD and box..
db

POst: solved it. But still not clear what TEXT 1-4 is all about. Tried each one and nothing changed.

The 10.5' measurement is pretty close to dead on. The 15' measurement is probably a little more like 16' with a viewer reclined in my sectional. I am leaning towards the 10.5' spot, but at the 16' spot I could cut out a spot in the wall and hide my components behind a glass door. Man this is really a tough call.

If all things were equal, I'd go closer. 10 feet is still plenty far enough to not have to worry about seeing the pixel structure. I can't see it past around 5 feet on my XR5.

That said, I'm at 15 feet and I'm happy....

But only until the 61XR5 or XR6 comes around. :)

Heck, I could even go 65, but then I'd have to change brands. :eek:

But only until the 61XR5 or XR6 comes around. :)

Heck, I could even go 65, but then I'd have to change brands. :eek:


You know, now that you mention it, it has been a while since I have read anything about the timeline on new NEC panels. Does anyone (Chris maybe?) know what new NEC PDP products are coming (details would be helpful, if you have them) and when? TIA.

I'd like to start using the NEC as a monitor and play some games on the PS2, and I don't want health meters or scoreboards to burn-in. When is it "safe" (I know, subjective I'm sure) to start using Anamorphic on movies and DirecTV, and to play videogames on the NEC?



Boss,

I have been using my NEC for games since day one, but I have been trying to be extra careful. I usually set the peak brightness to 50% when gaming, sometimes 25% if there are bright, static images that are always present during the game. I am also making sure to fill the entire screen.

These precautions have worked well for me so far, but sometimes I will still see faint "after images", usually a health meter, and only visible when the screen is all black. They always go away after a minute or two of watching tv and I do not think playing games has hurt my plasma in any way.

I have about 140 hours on the NEC so far, I would say 3/4 watching cable/dvd and 1/4 games (both pc and console). I have also ran the break in dvd for a couple of hours here and there. I will probably continue to be careful with pc use and games until I reach 1000 hours.

Please keep in mind though, I'm still a noob when it comes to plasmas. I only have my 140 hours of experience to share.

I'm just hooking up my 50xr5 to a new HTPC I just got and am having a heck of a time getting the resolution right.

Basically I'm trying to get the resolution of my video card to set at 1365x768, so that I can see the desktop in its entirety. The weird thing is that when the card outputs 1280x720, the desktop is too large to fit on the screen, which is confusing to me (ie wouldn't 1360x768 be even larger).

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be changing settings on the monitor itself or some sort of advanced option from the videocard output.

I went for a low power, quiet design, so my graffics card on this machine is a Raedon 9600 with DVI output. The ATI program that controls the settings is Catalyst Control, which I don't have much experience with (this is my first ATI card, I've always been an nVidia guy).

I briefly had the monitor hooked up to my gaming rig, which had a nvidia card and was able to output 1360x768, but even then the screen looked all funky. So I figure I must be doing something wrong.

I've played around with it for hours, so here's my cry for help!
Thanks in advance!

I've played around with it for hours, so here's my cry for help!
Thanks in advance!

For ATI cards of that vintage, you can only get a limited set of resolutions to work over DVI. 1365x768 is not one of them.

For 1:1 pixel mapping you'll need to use 1360x768 on the VGA interface.

1365x768 over DVI is possible with Nvidia cards, I just got my new 6600GT last night and after some dremeling of the heatsink to make it fit in my case, I now have 1:1 mapped pixel glory over DVI/HDMI.

To make Nvidia work you need to define a custom 1368x768 resolution and in the advance timing page for flat panels set the active area to 1365.

If you search this thread for "+nvidia" and "+1365" you'll see a screen shot of the panel in question from DCypher.

You know, now that you mention it, it has been a while since I have read anything about the timeline on new NEC panels. Does anyone (Chris maybe?) know what new NEC PDP products are coming (details would be helpful, if you have them) and when? TIA.

Next December....long wait

I wonder if any of these will be 1080P ?? :)

For ATI cards of that vintage, you can only get a limited set of resolutions to work over DVI. 1365x768 is not one of them.

For 1:1 pixel mapping you'll need to use 1360x768 on the VGA interface.

1365x768 over DVI is possible with Nvidia cards, I just got my new 6600GT last night and after some dremeling of the heatsink to make it fit in my case, I now have 1:1 mapped pixel glory over DVI/HDMI.

To make Nvidia work you need to define a custom 1368x768 resolution and in the advance timing page for flat panels set the active area to 1365.

If you search this thread for "+nvidia" and "+1365" you'll see a screen shot of the panel in question from DCypher.

Hey jvincent - quick question....I'm going to upgrade to an Nvidia card that has the 6600GT chipset, but my Asus mobo is AGP, not PCI express. Any suggestions as to brands? Gigabyte is only selling the 6600GT cards in PCI-E configs. Thanks.

Hey jvincent - quick question....I'm going to upgrade to an Nvidia card that has the 6600GT chipset, but my Asus mobo is AGP, not PCI express. Any suggestions as to brands? Gigabyte is only selling the 6600GT cards in PCI-E configs. Thanks.

Actually, the card I got was a AGP from Gigabyte. It's the silent pipe version.

The model number is N66T128VP. Here's the URL to it on the Gigabyte site.

http://www.giga-byte.ca/VGA/Products/Products_GV-N66T128VP.htm#

I picked mine up from a local place here in town but I've seen them for sale at other online places.

One word of warning on that particular model, the heat pipes stick out over the top of the card quite a bit and it initially didn't fit in my case. I ended up having to dremel out the base of the heat sink to allow the pipe to move down. Thankfully the copper slug that sits on the GPU was big enough that it was still covering it post modification.

Actually, the card I got was a AGP from Gigabyte. It's the silent pipe version.

The model number is N66T128VP. Here's the URL to it on the Gigabyte site.

http://www.giga-byte.ca/VGA/Products/Products_GV-N66T128VP.htm#

I picked mine up from a local place here in town but I've seen them for sale at other online places.

One word of warning on that particular model, the heat pipes stick out over the top of the card quite a bit and it initially didn't fit in my case. I ended up having to dremel out the base of the heat sink to allow the pipe to move down. Thankfully the copper slug that sits on the GPU was big enough that it was still covering it post modification.

Thanks. It'll fit no problem, my case is HUGE. I built it as a gaming rig, I wasn't thinking HTPC SFF at the time. :D

*Edit - Aren't you worried about the lack of a fan? I'll be playing some pretty intensive FPS games, I'm not sure I like the idea of a fanless GPU.

Next December....long wait

I wonder if any of these will be 1080P ?? :)

December 2007?? :eek: That *is* a long wait.

December 2007?? :eek: That *is* a long wait.

That's okay, it'll be 2010 before the wife lets me buy another plasma. :D

*Edit - Aren't you worried about the lack of a fan? I'll be playing some pretty intensive FPS games, I'm not sure I like the idea of a fanless GPU.

I don't game on the HTPC, that what the Xbox 360 is for. :)

Just for kicks I'll probably run something heavy on it to see how it performs temperature wise.

The card it replaced was a 9700Pro with a passive heat sink as well since I like the HTPC to be as quiet as possible.

Is there a digital out connection on xr5 for audio??

I don't game on the HTPC, that what the Xbox 360 is for. :)

Just for kicks I'll probably run something heavy on it to see how it performs temperature wise.

The card it replaced was a 9700Pro with a passive heat sink as well since I like the HTPC to be as quiet as possible.

Some games are great on consoles (I own a PS/PS2/N64/GC/Xbox), but for FPS's and RPGs, nothing beats the PC. I don't care how often I play Halo on my Xbox, it just doesn't feel right unless I'm using a keyboard and mouse combo. :cool:

Agreed, I too like mine quiet, but I usually have my sounds up loud enough (which isn't all that loud) that I can't hear the fans, and I've got 6 80mm fans in my case.

I'll figure something out. I also need a soundcard that supports 5.1 or better as well!

That's okay, it'll be 2010 before the wife lets me buy another plasma. :D


LOL I know what you mean, I wont be getting mine til the end of the year (waiting on a house) but I'll be lucky if the wife lets me get a new one in 2010! Although I might pickup a cheap 42" for the game room before then :D

Is there a digital out connection on xr5 for audio??

No.

I am still in the very early days of owning my XR5. Still on the break-in period. Right now I don't have any external speakers hooked to it yet, so I just let it run for hours on end displaying Discovery HD channel. I went into the living room to just briefly gaze at the XR5 and I found myself being glued to the sofa mesmerized at how truly outstanding this display really is. I have my contrast and brightness set under 50% for the break-in period, and the picture quality still simply blows me away! I can not get over how impressed I am with this plasma display. I can't help but sit back and smile. I can't wait until I can invite company over and "wow" them with the XR5. :) Oh, by the way, could sombody please P.M. me with the code to get into the service menu on the XR5. I don't want to change anything, I'm just curious. Thanks

Oh, by the way, could sombody please P.M. me with the code to get into the service menu on the XR5. I don't want to change anything, I'm just curious. Thanks

Check out Bruzzi's faq for the service menu.

That being said, there is only one item that can be changed, Limit PC.

This is only useful if you are connecting a PC to the display. All of the colour controls that you could ever hope to use are available in the XR5 user controls. Another plus for the NEC.

I only wanted to view the service menu because I was under the impression that you could view the displays power on time. Is this correct?

Yes, you can see the power on time there as well.

Where do I find this BruZZis faq you mentioned?

It's stickied at the top of the plasma forum.

Thanks JV :) !

Where do I find this BruZZis faq you mentioned?

http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=148

Even better, thanks C cat! You guys are great! :)

Hey guys,

Just watching Fifth Element (Superbit) right now in 1:1 pixel mapped native rate glory thanks to the new video card (6600GT) in the HTPC.

Ummm, wow, is all I can say. The spouse came in commented that she never some of the details that we was seeing now.

So, if you're on the fence about either getting an HTPC or a card that will let you do native rate, get off it!

whew. This might sound a little wierd, but never have I followed a thread where something looks so good that people make comments about it when it is 'off'. If I didn't have my 50XM5 on my wall, I would say you is all bonkers.....'cept that the only thing better is when it is...'on'.

Hey guys,

Just watching Fifth Element (Superbit) right now in 1:1 pixel mapped native rate glory thanks to the new video card (660GT) in the HTPC.

Ummm, wow, is all I can say. The spouse came in commented that she never some of the details that we was seeing now.

So, if you're on the fence about either getting an HTPC or a card that will let you do native rate, get off it!


I'm drooling... :o When is the next price drop? :p (oh yeah! 66 messages in 5 years--what can I say, I'm a reader, not a poster.)

Hey guys,

Just watching Fifth Element (Superbit) right now in 1:1 pixel mapped native rate glory thanks to the new video card (660GT) in the HTPC.

Ummm, wow, is all I can say. The spouse came in commented that she never some of the details that we was seeing now.

So, if you're on the fence about either getting an HTPC or a card that will let you do native rate, get off it!

I have a 3 mos old PC hooked to my monitor through VGA. It has Windows XP Media Center, Pentium 4 3GHz, 512 mb RAM, LightScribe DVD-RW, ATI Radeon 200. Could I just get the Nvidia 6600GT and be ready to go?

I have a 3 mos old PC hooked to my monitor through VGA. It has Windows XP Media Center, Pentium 4 3GHz, 512 mb RAM, LightScribe DVD-RW, ATI Radeon 200. Could I just get the Nvidia 6600GT and be ready to go?

Should be.

Since it's a new PC I'm assuming it's got a PCIe slot for the video card and there are plenty of 6600GT or the newer 7600/7800 cards available at good deals.

I use TheaterTek with ffdshow post-processing as my DVD player BTW.

Word of caution, HTPC for DVD playback is a slippery slope that once you start down you will never come back from.

Hey guys,

Just watching Fifth Element (Superbit) right now in 1:1 pixel mapped native rate glory thanks to the new video card (6600GT) in the HTPC.

Ummm, wow, is all I can say. The spouse came in commented that she never some of the details that we was seeing now.

So, if you're on the fence about either getting an HTPC or a card that will let you do native rate, get off it!
Hello friends, I recently obtained the code for accessing the service menu on the XR5. Yikes, I really did'nt understand many of the things listed there. I did however find the "power on" timer. Boy did I underestimate! I was still at only 22 hours of power on time since I got the XR5 last Monday April 3rd. So, needless to say I've got the XR5 running right now. Another thing, I am not exactly a newbie to electronics, but I see many of you using a computer to view movies on your plasma. Are you all using laptops? I have my computer in a completly different room and I don't own a laptop. Is a computer a better option for viewing than a conventional DVD player? Just curious?

Is a computer a better option for viewing than a conventional DVD player? Just curious?

If you were to ask me, I'd say yes. And with a handle like techjunky2 you really should be using an HTPC. :D

This gets debated frequently on the HTPC forum, and the general view is that unless you are willing to fork out for one of the high end Denon DVD players, you will probably get a better picture out of a PC. And even compared to the Denon many people will say that the PC is still better.

The caveat is that it takes work to set it up and if you're not careful about keeping the PC "clean" from a S/W point of view they can become unstable.

That being said, my kids and wife use the HTPC for DVD playback with no issues. It's all nicely integrated on a the same remote control that controls all the other components and for all intents and purposes the HTPC looks and behaves like a STB. All thanks to my many hours of tweaking and customizing of course.

I have a 3 mos old PC hooked to my monitor through VGA. It has Windows XP Media Center, Pentium 4 3GHz, 512 mb RAM, LightScribe DVD-RW, ATI Radeon 200. Could I just get the Nvidia 6600GT and be ready to go?
--------------

I would recommend 1 GB RAM (if not 2 GB). Otherwise you should be fine....

Hello friends, I recently obtained the code for accessing the service menu on the XR5. Yikes, I really did'nt understand many of the things listed there. I did however find the "power on" timer. Boy did I underestimate! I was still at only 22 hours of power on time since I got the XR5 last Monday April 3rd.
Be careful in any service menus if you do not know what you are doing, people have caused harm to there panel............ :(

Is there a digital out connection on xr5 for audio??

Use the digital audio out from your source (STB, DVD, etc) and run it to your receiver.

If you were to ask me, I'd say yes. And with a handle like techjunky2 you really should be using an HTPC. :D

This gets debated frequently on the HTPC forum, and the general view is that unless you are willing to fork out for one of the high end Denon DVD players, you will probably get a better picture out of a PC. And even compared to the Denon many people will say that the PC is still better.

The caveat is that it takes work to set it up and if you're not careful about keeping the PC "clean" from a S/W point of view they can become unstable.

That being said, my kids and wife use the HTPC for DVD playback with no issues. It's all nicely integrated on a the same remote control that controls all the other components and for all intents and purposes the HTPC looks and behaves like a STB. All thanks to my many hours of tweaking and customizing of course.
I see............I actually do own a high end Denon DVD player, but I haven't even hooked it up to the XR5 yet. Maybe I will try it out today and see how it performs. Oh, Chris(Cleveland Plasma), not to worry about me messing with the service menu. I'm not going to touch anything listed there. :) I only wanted to keep track off my break-in hours that way.

One super benefit of the HTPC, you get to skip all the annoying advertisements and previews that they put on DVDs.

That alone is worth it for me.

Hello All,

She (XR5) arrived yesterday. I'm looking forward to what she will do. Presently, I'm stuck with a composite-connecting cable box while Charter waits for more HD boxes to come in. My old dvd player doesn't seem to offer a good signal, nor does it allow me to use all of the wide/zoom modes to fill the screen with every movie. But the piece itself is a beauty. Without this forum I would feel slightly overwhelmed when looking at this complicated piece of art.

David
Bogart, GA

Guys....


which mount are you using for the 50"? I'll either get the 50 or the 42", but I need to know which mount is a good one and still not too pricy...

:) Thank you.

(I would like it to be a tilt mount)

Guys....


which mount are you using for the 50"? I'll either get the 50 or the 42", but I need to know which mount is a good one and still not too pricy...

:) Thank you.

(I would like it to be a tilt mount)

I've heard that the Sanus mount is nice. :cool:

Hello All,

She (XR5) arrived yesterday. I'm looking forward to what she will do. Presently, I'm stuck with a composite-connecting cable box while Charter waits for more HD boxes to come in. My old dvd player doesn't seem to offer a good signal, nor does it allow me to use all of the wide/zoom modes to fill the screen with every movie. But the piece itself is a beauty. Without this forum I would feel slightly overwhelmed when looking at this complicated piece of art.

David
Bogart, GA

Congrats David, it looks great! I'm still in awe every time I look at mine....

My 50xr5 is on the way! Thanks Chris for the good deal and your patience with my nagging you for the last 2+ weeks! Get that sucker out of Buffalo and in to New Joisey!

Is anyone using NEC's 42"-50" tilt wall mount? I wonder if it's any good, as it pretty inexpensive.

I think most people will agree that NEC's build quality is very good. If you are looking for a tilt mount for an NEC plasma and NEC makes a reasonable stand (just googled - that is pretty cheap for a tilt mount) I would go for it. NEC bolt pattern on the back of their plasmas is a little different than most, so you would be assured this mount will fit properly too.

Guys....


which mount are you using for the 50"? I'll either get the 50 or the 42", but I need to know which mount is a good one and still not too pricy...

:) Thank you.

(I would like it to be a tilt mount)


I used the Omni Mount. Here are a couple of pictures. It has hooks that mount to the panel for easy attachment and it also has a locking feature. It was very inexpensive(<$100). I'll try to find pictures of the panel side. I hope to have pictures of my complete new setup in 2 to 3 weeks. Waiting on the fireplace install and carpet :mad:

http://www.cook-mfg.com/1450.jpg
http://www.cook-mfg.com/1451.jpg

I have a 42xr4 which has two HDMI inputs and I have 3 digital sources!

I have a
1) Cable Box (Component or HDMI out)
2) PC (VGA or DVI out)
3) DVD (Component or HDMI out)

I watch the Cable most, PC second and DVD third.

Which inputs should I send to the HDMI?

TIA

I have a 42xr4 which has two HDMI inputs and I have 3 digital sources!

I have a
1) Cable Box (Component or HDMI out)
2) PC (VGA or DVI out)
3) DVD (Component or HDMI out)

I watch the Cable most, PC second and DVD third.

Which inputs should I send to the HDMI?

TIA

Problem solved.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=2777&seq=1&format=2

Hello,

I am a TV newbie, sorry if this has been said in the thread, but it's kind of hard to go through 80+ pages of posts.

The 61" NEC model is a 1366 x 768 resolution right? But it accepts 1080P signals? 1080P as I understand it is 1920 x 1080.

So does the NEC 61" plasma convert all 1080i/p signals down to the 1366 x 768 resolution?

Isn't this less than ideal?

Also - is the 1366 x 768 that the NEC displays interlaced or progressive?

Hello,

I am a TV newbie, sorry if this has been said in the thread, but it's kind of hard to go through 80+ pages of posts.

The 61" NEC model is a 1366 x 768 resolution right? But it accepts 1080P signals? 1080P as I understand it is 1920 x 1080.

So does the NEC 61" plasma convert all 1080i/p signals down to the 1366 x 768 resolution?

Isn't this less than ideal?

Also - is the 1366 x 768 that the NEC displays interlaced or progressive?

Hey Goat. Glad to see you're considering a NEC, plasma's hidden secret for optimum quality at big box store pricing. :cool:

Yes, the NEC will accept 1080p and rez it to the native of the screen.

In all honesty, on a 61" screen, you're going to want to be sitting at least 15'-20' away, and at that distance, your eyes would have a hard time discerning the difference between 768p and 1080i/1080p.

Hello,

I am a TV newbie, sorry if this has been said in the thread, but it's kind of hard to go through 80+ pages of posts.

The 61" NEC model is a 1366 x 768 resolution right? But it accepts 1080P signals? 1080P as I understand it is 1920 x 1080.

So does the NEC 61" plasma convert all 1080i/p signals down to the 1366 x 768 resolution?

Isn't this less than ideal?

Also - is the 1366 x 768 that the NEC displays interlaced or progressive?


Almost all plasmas at this point are 768p. The upcoming Pio 50 inch is 1080p as well as the Panny 65 but you will pay a premium for those. It's not worth it unless you plan to sit 12 feet or closer with a 65 inch screen. For a 61, this distance will be around 11 feet. Unless you plan to sit closer, 768p will be fine. If you do sit closer, you'll have to decide if paying the premium is worth it to you.

Theoretically, 1080p input support is the bigger deal to most of us, although most of the marketing is going towards 1080p screen resolution. 1080p input support over HDMI/DVI will hold an at least theoretical advantage for upcoming BD sources. The XM5/XM4 does support 1080p60 over DVI but you'll need to weigh this advantage against its disadvantages vs. the XR5/XR4 including warranty, number of inputs, etc.

BOSS10L - thanks for the reply

So am I correct in assuming that these NEC displays are always output progressive?

Also - input resolution makes the NEC do the least amount of scaling? (preferable none) Do these NEC models prefer a 720P input signal, or a 1080i input signal, or something else?

thanks

BOSS10L - thanks for the reply

So am I correct in assuming that these NEC displays are always output progressive?

Also - input resolution makes the NEC do the least amount of scaling? (preferable none) Do these NEC models prefer a 720P input signal, or a 1080i input signal, or something else?

thanks

Also, see my reply to you above.

You need to get past this sort of thinking. With adequate scaling/processing, the display will accurately reproduce the image regardless of the resolution of the signal/display. The main consideration for screen resolution is screen size and viewing distance.

cpcat - thanks for the reply.

Yes, it does seem that I may need to get past what is "comfortable" thinking to me. You see, I am no stranger to high-end audio, and where I come from, any conversion of anything is bad. No EQs in my world, absolutely minimal digitization of anything (vinyl LPs only source I take seriously).

So, it seems as though I've fallen down the well and find myself lost. It is a scary place, what with numbers, and conversions, and misinformation, and Best Buy, and the internet, and ethics.

Problem solved.

will not let me post the URL yet

BOSS10L, thanks for the info and I will investigate the switch... but I was looking for a "VGA-to-DVI difference is bigger than Component-to-HDMI" quote or vice versa.

I did have my STB using Component going thru my Receiver to the NEC and changed to a direct HDMI connection (STB->NEC) and saw a major difference in picture quality.

Would I see a similar jump in PQ going from 1024x768 VGA on my PC to ????x??? DVI ?

Or would it be better to to swap the DVD from Component to HDMI?

FYI... There has been some good content/settings added to the Setting and Tweaks Thread over the last week or so; latest cpcat+LisaM XR5 settings XR5, jvincent extensive XM5 settings and me (questionable/rambling content :o ) . Because it is not as active as this thread it often gets pushed down off the first page of the Plasmas and LCD Forum, and I am not sure people realize it is there, but there is good info there for people looking for settings, tweaks FAQish. Please feel free and you are encouraged to add your settings and comments. This panel is so flexible, I personally am interested in everyones settings; I am sure others are as well.

You can find it here:
NEC Settings and Tweaks (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7360508#post7360508)

If I need to be asking this question on the "settings and tweaks" thread, please let me know. I am hoping some simple setting adjustments can be made to get the "pop" I am looking for out of my dvds. I'm not expecting much out of the TV at this point as the XR5 is hooked to an old composite box (waiting for hd box). I have a component-to-component connection to a Panasonic RP62 progressive scan player. It is several years old, but I still expected more. Are there some simple adjustments I can make to either the XR5 or the RP62 that will give it a crisper image? Or is it time to move on to another dvd player?

Thank you

If I need to be asking this question on the "settings and tweaks" thread, please let me know. I am hoping some simple setting adjustments can be made to get the "pop" I am looking for out of my dvds. I'm not expecting much out of the TV at this point as the XR5 is hooked to an old composite box (waiting for hd box). I have a component-to-component connection to a Panasonic RP62 progressive scan player. It is several years old, but I still expected more. Are there some simple adjustments I can make to either the XR5 or the RP62 that will give it a crisper image? Or is it time to move on to another dvd player?

Thank you
A good DVD player certianly doesn't hurt (seperate discussion, I replaced my ancient one with a $200 player (Oppo) and it is very impressive (I also liked the Sony NS75H ), there a number of decent inexpensive players , you can go to the DVD Players Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=18) and get your fill/overfill there) ... but I would abosolutely go to the tweaks threads first... there are some very good example settings posted there.

Many People Like the CPCAT + LISAM Settings
on the First post although they have been updated here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7457413&&#post7457413

There are others there as well...

EDIT: OH, one possible sugestion/approach is that you do as little as possible tweaking in the player (i.e. turn off NR, Cinema Modes, sharpness etc) and do whatever tweaking you do at the panel level..

BOSS10L, thanks for the info and I will investigate the switch... but I was looking for a "VGA-to-DVI difference is bigger than Component-to-HDMI" quote or vice versa.

I did have my STB using Component going thru my Receiver to the NEC and changed to a direct HDMI connection (STB->NEC) and saw a major difference in picture quality.

Would I see a similar jump in PQ going from 1024x768 VGA on my PC to ????x??? DVI ?

Or would it be better to to swap the DVD from Component to HDMI?

There is quite a jump from VGA to DVI (when using an HTPC as the source), that I have verified myself. I have never seen HMDI in action, but I've been told that yes, the jump is great.

Of course, with everything A/V, it will vary from eye to eye and ear to ear. I am still somewhat new to all of this, but I feel I am becoming somewhat of a "critic" who is learning their way around.

Heck, at the money we're throwing around, we better, 'eh? :D

Heck, at the money we're throwing around, we better, 'eh? :D
Ok, yeah. :)

Off to play with my DVI out from my PC to get a better picture than 1024x768 from VGA :D

You know, now that you mention it, it has been a while since I have read anything about the timeline on new NEC panels. Does anyone (Chris maybe?) know what new NEC PDP products are coming (details would be helpful, if you have them) and when? TIA.
I did get an update on the 61" NEC--well 60"

I was told that Pioneer/ NEC will be closing the 61" line down for retooling and coming out with a 60" model sometime this summer....that is all I know....

cpcat - thanks for the reply.

Yes, it does seem that I may need to get past what is "comfortable" thinking to me. You see, I am no stranger to high-end audio, and where I come from, any conversion of anything is bad. No EQs in my world, absolutely minimal digitization of anything (vinyl LPs only source I take seriously).

So, it seems as though I've fallen down the well and find myself lost. It is a scary place, what with numbers, and conversions, and misinformation, and Best Buy, and the internet, and ethics.

I too, have a high end audio background. I use a passive pre all balanced from source to speaker, no eq and with triamplification. I didn't go "all the way" and go vinyl though. I did have a brief foray with tubes.

The reason I mention this is to illustrate there's hope for you yet.
At least you're in the right part of the forum. :)

I did get an update on the 61" NEC--well 60"

I was told that Pioneer/ NEC will be closing the 61" line down for retooling and coming out with a 60" model sometime this summer....that is all I know....


Ummm, summer huh? What do you think the chances of convincing the wife of that one with the XR5 barely behind us????? :D

I did get an update on the 61" NEC--well 60"

I was told that Pioneer/ NEC will be closing the 61" line down for retooling and coming out with a 60" model sometime this summer....that is all I know....

Thanks for the info Chris! Hopeful we will soon know more about their plans, as summer is just around the corner.

Just curious if anyone knows if the NEC warranty is international? If I buy from a USA vendor, will NEC in canada cover the warranty? I know panasonic will not do this.

Just curious if anyone knows if the NEC warranty is international? If I buy from a USA vendor, will NEC in canada cover the warranty? I know panasonic will not do this.

I seriously doubt it since they have Canadian distribution.

I´m almost just about to pull the trigger for the 50XR5 but I want to share with all of you one concern that I stil have:

Although it was asked previously all over this thread, NEC plasmas are more prone to IR problems than others brands, such as for example, Pannys. The solution given was simply to avoid seeing tv or even dvds with black bars in order to avoid this issue.

As my native (and my family) spoken language is spanish, I usually see the dvds with subtitles, in order to let others to understand what it is said. The thing is that on almost every recent dvd movie that I saw, I realized that when you put the subtitles, they are positioned on the "black bars", so I´ll have to let them being displayed during the whole movie in order to see them..... :(

Is this IR problem that I must be taking into account with this panel, considering that I will spend a lot of hours seeing dvds with the black bars? Although I will be still switching seeing dvds with normal tv "standium" mode, is this type of use prone to a hard IR problem and a possible future burn in issue???? :confused:

Thanks in advance,
Gonzalo.

The solution given was simply to avoid seeing tv or even dvds with black bars in order to avoid this issue.


This is only suggested for the first 100 hours of break in. You need to watch full screen content during this time or play the break in DVD for a few days. IR is temporary and is a lot less frequent and hardly noticeable after 200 hours.

I´m almost just about to pull the trigger for the 50XR5 but I want to share with all of you one concern that I stil have:

Although it was asked previously all over this thread, NEC plasmas are more prone to IR problems than others brands, such as for example, Pannys. The solution given was simply to avoid seeing tv or even dvds with black bars in order to avoid this issue.

As my native (and my family) spoken language is spanish, I usually see the dvds with subtitles, in order to let others to understand what it is said. The thing is that on almost every recent dvd movie that I saw, I realized that when you put the subtitles, they are positioned on the "black bars", so I´ll have to let them being displayed during the whole movie in order to see them..... :(

Is this IR problem that I must be taking into account with this panel, considering that I will spend a lot of hours seeing dvds with the black bars? Although I will be still switching seeing dvds with normal tv "standium" mode, is this type of use prone to a hard IR problem and a possible future burn in issue???? :confused:

Thanks in advance,
Gonzalo.
-----------

Gonzalo, my advice would be to go to a store like Tweeter or BB and ask them to play your DVD on a Pioneer 5060 set and see if you like the picture or if you notice IR. Since you can't see the set in person, from my experience the NEC XR5 is very close in performance to the Pioneer 5060 in terms of how the picture looks and behaves. If they have a newer set you may get a better idea of the impact of image retention.

From my viewing experience, I have never been affected by IR. I have not done anything to break in my set. I have watched movies with the borders on the top with subtitles, clearly during the movie you will see no IR at all. The time you will see any is if halfway you decide to switch to a TV channel, you will see some faint lines where the bars were. But IR is not permanent and will not damage your set, as far as I know.

I am not sure if others feel that the NEC is closer to other plasmas, but I have found it to be very close to the Pioneers in terms of how the picture 'pops'.

When I bought it 2 months ago it was not like that but lately when I viewing SD signal and change to HD signal it took 5 to 10 seconds before the HD channels show up. Any idea why? Is there anything I can do? I have DirecTV.

Many thanks.

Also, if you are concerned (i am not) IR. After watching subtitle DVD. Just go into the screen swipe. turn it on for 3-5 min. turn it off and go to bed and forget about it. It has never been a issue with my 4+ month old xr5.
db


-----------

Gonzalo, my advice would be to go to a store like Tweeter or BB and ask them to play your DVD on a Pioneer 5060 set and see if you like the picture or if you notice IR. Since you can't see the set in person, from my experience the NEC XR5 is very close in performance to the Pioneer 5060 in terms of how the picture looks and behaves. If they have a newer set you may get a better idea of the impact of image retention.

From my viewing experience, I have never been affected by IR. I have not done anything to break in my set. I have watched movies with the borders on the top with subtitles, clearly during the movie you will see no IR at all. The time you will see any is if halfway you decide to switch to a TV channel, you will see some faint lines where the bars were. But IR is not permanent and will not damage your set, as far as I know.

I am not sure if others feel that the NEC is closer to other plasmas, but I have found it to be very close to the Pioneers in terms of how the picture 'pops'.

Can you let me know how to turn the screen wipe on and off?

First of all thanks haveoneolboy, plazman & dab for the quick response!
I´m going to follow your advices..... so 50XR5... here we GO! :p
Thanks again! :)

yup. couldn't have imagined a smoother deal. Thanks, Chris.

Can you let me know how to turn the screen wipe on and off?

Make sure you have the Advanced OSM turned on. Go to "Long Life" press menu and you should see the screen wipe option and the inverse picture option. I believe this is right. I have the XM5 and have never used the screen wiper but I think this is where I saw it. Someone else correct me if I am wrong.

haveoneolboy, you are correct about the screen wipe in the XM5. I'm not sure if its the same in the XR4 and 5's though.

After months of reading this forum, I am finally a member myself. 50xr5 arived yesterday and is hanging on my wall today. Watching nemo with my kid now...

thanks Chris for a super fast and smooth transaction...

When I bought it 2 months ago it was not like that but lately when I viewing SD signal and change to HD signal it took 5 to 10 seconds before the HD channels show up. Any idea why? Is there anything I can do? I have DirecTV.

Many thanks.

I have D* and haven't seen this problem. I use the Hughes HTL-HD which is an older receiver with DVI out. Have you tried a reset on the receiver?

Have you changed a setting in the satellite box to pass-through instead of a fixed resolution, ie., 1080i or something? If that's the case, the tv takes a second or two to change resolutions when jumping from 480i to 1080i and vice versa. Just a thought.

Have you changed a setting in the satellite box to pass-through instead of a fixed resolution, ie., 1080i or something? If that's the case, the tv takes a second or two to change resolutions when jumping from 480i to 1080i and vice versa. Just a thought.

No I have not changed a thing in the STB. Also, I do not have pass-thru in my STB.

hlkc, have you tried cpcat's suggestion about rebooting the box? Sometimes some STB's just need unplugged for a few minutes to reboot it and then it'll start working better again. Otherwise, I'm outta ideas.

I have D* and haven't seen this problem. I use the Hughes HTL-HD which is an older receiver with DVI out. Have you tried a reset on the receiver?

cpcat,

thanks for the advice. after unplug it for 5 mins and plug the STB back, the channel change within few seconds. thanks again.

cpcat - thanks for the reply.

Yes, it does seem that I may need to get past what is "comfortable" thinking to me. You see, I am no stranger to high-end audio, and where I come from, any conversion of anything is bad. No EQs in my world, absolutely minimal digitization of anything (vinyl LPs only source I take seriously).

So, it seems as though I've fallen down the well and find myself lost. It is a scary place, what with numbers, and conversions, and misinformation, and Best Buy, and the internet, and ethics.

Don't sound engineers use EQs to mix music? If you want to get technical, playing a guitar solo in one room will sound different than in another room. Are you against natural environmental EQs also? ;)

Don't sound engineers use EQs to mix music? If you want to get technical, playing a guitar solo in one room will sound different than in another room. Are you against natural environmental EQs also? ;)


and compressors, and reverbs, and lots of EQ, and lots of other toys :)

One of the conversations I always have with my coworkers (sometimes it sucks being an audio guy in video production house), is that unless you're going to spend EQUALLY as much money on acoutsically designing your ROOM for audio as you do designing it for visuals, spending insane $$ on audio gear is pointless (IMVHO).

You reach a point of diminishing returns. I'd say that a decent portion of us don't build a dedicated theater room (but, I know forums like this specialize is people who DO do just that). But, the average Joe who just wants a really nice TV in his living room, and some equally nice speakers (again..IMVHO) does NOT have spend $3000 on an amplifier.

that being said. I just got the Outlaw Audio 1070 ($800) and it's amazing. And I'll be buying an Axiom speaker system as well (probably under $2000). And that's pushing it for me. (granted..I do have Genlec's in the recording studio downstairs..but..that's different..hahahah).

I may or may not put an EQ into the system. I do think that it IS worth it, tho..If you're spending the $$ to have your Plasma calibrated, why not get your room calibrated as well...A good EQ rig is essential for that.

Oppo arrived on Friday. Hooked it up to my XR5. So far seen one movie and it looks great! Not sure how this compares with other users but:

1. I tried 480i (component), 480p, 720p (HDMI) and 1080i(HDMI). To me, 720p looked the best, next was 1080i. I am not sure if component had anything to do with it, but 480i had the same problems with less than impressive performance in dark scenes that I was experiencing before!

Now I am truly satisfied with the XR5!

On a side note: I have not experienced any MB issues (in the one movie) that is often reported with the Oppo.

It has been reported that the NEC works best with 480i input. But with the one movie I saw, upconverting made the picture look overall much better. I would say with the good performance I am seeing in the blacks (after some minor tweakings on the set) and the bright picture the set really delivers in all viewing environments.

So, I can blame the relatively poor performance to my previous DVD player - should I mention it? it's not loved on this forum in any case :rolleyes:

OK. So now I am able to recommend the NEC to any interested buyer without reservation. This is only my opinion, so take it for what it is worth. I am hoping that I have finally fixed the issue with DVD performance (I was a little disappointed that DVDs were looking noticeably better on an older generation Panny (7UY) than on the NEC XR5, it was fairly evident to any one in a A-B comparison at around 8 ft or so). Now, I can say the PQ is at least equivalent if not better for DVD (it was already better for general HD content). Now, don't know if the PQ on the NEC also exceeds the 8UK (which I think is equivalent all round to the NEC), but the NEC is pretty close to reference (IMHO) :)

I haven't been posting here much since I haven't been turning on the NEC much recently. Glad to report that the 'turning on the set' issue is likely to change with the new DVD+Monitor combo....

Ok, I have FINALLY decided to go with the NEC 50XR5A after getting tired of waiting for the 600U, and also after reading all these awesome comments......YEAH!!! :D

Last step before I make the purchase is deciding on a stand. I am looking for a desktop model, preferably with both swivel and tilt features, but more importantly something that will allow me to raise the unit high enough to fit my center speaker (~5 in. high) underneath it. Anyone have any advice or know of anything that will fit what I am looking for?

Please help, just want to get this purchase over with.....feel like I have been researching FOREVER :confused:

Thanks in advance :)

Ok, I have FINALLY decided to go with the NEC 50XR5A after getting tired of waiting for the 600U, and also after reading all these awesome comments......YEAH!!! :D

Last step before I make the purchase is deciding on a stand. I am looking for a desktop model, preferably with both swivel and tilt features, but more importantly something that will allow me to raise the unit high enough to fit my center speaker (~5 in. high) underneath it. Anyone have any advice or know of anything that will fit what I am looking for?

Please help, just want to get this purchase over with.....feel like I have been researching FOREVER :confused:

Thanks in advance :)

Congratulations.
I have the 42XR4A mounted on a Chief PSS-2042 tabletop swivel stand. It doesn't tilt, but has height adjustability of about 5 inches. It can swivel 45 degrees in either direction.

Fully lowered, the bottom edge of the TV frame is 1.5" above the shelf it's sitting on. The base of the stand protrudes at most 2.25" beyond the TV frame, so take that into consideration depending on how much shelf depth you need in front of the stand to place your center speaker.

I haven't used any other stands, but this one is benign-looking, heavy, rock solid, and was easy to assemble. The 50XR5 will fit on this stand as well.

Check out www.chiefmfg.com -- you can search their extensive catalog by TV model.

Thanks D2C, this looks great! It just might work :)

I have also found a Peerless (PLT-BLK) and Premier (PSD-TTS/B) tabletop stand, as well as, the NEC (PX-ST2U) one of course. Does anyone know if any of these will allow me to raise the display high enough to fit a 5 in. speaker underneath it?

So D2C...
Where did you order your Chief stand?

shane

Where did you order your Chief stand?

shane
I ordered it (along with my TV) from a local A/V dealer (in Norfolk VA). He looked around at his distributors for a stand to match the TV and my shelving situation.

I apologize for not realizing that Chief doesn't sell direct to consumers.

Forgive me for not reading through as I'm stepping out the door right now but......

Is there somewhere I can see these sets at a B&M in Southern California???


TIA!

Oppo arrived on Friday. Hooked it up to my XR5. So far seen one movie and it looks great! Not sure how this compares with other users but:

1. I tried 480i (component), 480p, 720p (HDMI) and 1080i(HDMI). To me, 720p looked the best, next was 1080i. I am not sure if component had anything to do with it, but 480i had the same problems with less than impressive performance in dark scenes that I was experiencing before!

Now I am truly satisfied with the XR5!

On a side note: I have not experienced any MB issues (in the one movie) that is often reported with the Oppo.

It has been reported that the NEC works best with 480i input. But with the one movie I saw, upconverting made the picture look overall much better. I would say with the good performance I am seeing in the blacks (after some minor tweakings on the set) and the bright picture the set really delivers in all viewing environments.

So, I can blame the relatively poor performance to my previous DVD player - should I mention it? it's not loved on this forum in any case :rolleyes:

OK. So now I am able to recommend the NEC to any interested buyer without reservation. This is only my opinion, so take it for what it is worth. I am hoping that I have finally fixed the issue with DVD performance (I was a little disappointed that DVDs were looking noticeably better on an older generation Panny (7UY) than on the NEC XR5, it was fairly evident to any one in a A-B comparison at around 8 ft or so). Now, I can say the PQ is at least equivalent if not better for DVD (it was already better for general HD content). Now, don't know if the PQ on the NEC also exceeds the 8UK (which I think is equivalent all round to the NEC), but the NEC is pretty close to reference (IMHO) :)

I haven't been posting here much since I haven't been turning on the NEC much recently. Glad to report that the 'turning on the set' issue is likely to change with the new DVD+Monitor combo....
Good to hear/comfirm! I had an ancient DVD player then demo'd a few and ended up with the Oppo. I Think the Oppo pairs very well with my 50XR5, your gonna make me go back and do a bit re-check (I like 480p better). I haven't seen any MBE on any movies... including a fairly poor copy of SWEPII. Hey if you reaalllly want to see the pair rock see if you can get your hands on a copy of a SuperBit DVD... not sure if I am just drinking the cool aid but My 5th element DVD... is beyond stunning. Have You played with the Sharpness on the NEC during a DVD, its a great way to adjust the "Film-ness" Quality. Anyways Glad you are satisfied!

Note: The Oppo 480i component is pretty much universally agreed to be so-so at best

Good to hear/comfirm! I had an ancient DVD player then demo'd a few and ended up with the Oppo. I Think the Oppo pairs very well with my 50XR5, your gonna make me go back and do a bit re-check (I like 480p better). I haven't seen any MBE on any movies... including a fairly poor copy of SWEPII. Hey if you reaalllly want to see the pair rock see if you can get your hands on a copy of a SuperBit DVD... not sure if I am just drinking the cool aid but My 5th element DVD... is beyond stunning. Have You played with the Sharpness on the NEC during a DVD, its a great way to adjust the "Film-ness" Quality. Anyways Glad you are satisfied!

Note: The Oppo 480i component is pretty much universally agreed to be so-so at best
----------------

Yeah. I'm happy with the decision of getting the Oppo (recommended thanks to someone on this forum) :)

Actually that's what I did (and have been doing). Adjusting sharpness up and brightness and color down to get the best picture.

Superbit DVDs are breathtaking on pretty much any set, but would love to stock up on them as they become available :p

Good to hear/comfirm! I had an ancient DVD player then demo'd a few and ended up with the Oppo. I Think the Oppo pairs very well with my 50XR5, your gonna make me go back and do a bit re-check (I like 480p better). I haven't seen any MBE on any movies... including a fairly poor copy of SWEPII. Hey if you reaalllly want to see the pair rock see if you can get your hands on a copy of a SuperBit DVD... not sure if I am just drinking the cool aid but My 5th element DVD... is beyond stunning. Have You played with the Sharpness on the NEC during a DVD, its a great way to adjust the "Film-ness" Quality. Anyways Glad you are satisfied!

Note: The Oppo 480i component is pretty much universally agreed to be so-so at best
----------

My superbit collection includes - Das Boot, both Spiderman, 5th Element, MIB, Lawrence of Arabia and Crouching Tiger. Guess with HD-DVD and Blu Ray my collection probably stops there :rolleyes:

So far I've only watched Lord of the Rings - Two Towers on the NEC/Oppo. I spent a lot of time trying to get the settings right. I switched midway from 480p to 720p and liked it better, I then switched to 1080i, but felt the picture became a little softer. I was watching at a little less than 8ft, so I could detect minor improvements in PQ. I was also looking for visible flaws such as MB. So that's good news. Those pesky Pannys set the benchmark for DVD pretty high - my commercial 7UY is a year and a half old and can easily still hold it's own with the best of them :) So I was being really really picky about the contrast and black levels, I'm sure if I wasn't used to the Panny I would have been thrilled with the NEC PQ to start with...ne

As good as the NEC looks when it is off, it looks even better when turned on :D

I don't have any way of quantifying this, but with more and more hours on the panel I think the picture is getting even better. I have around 700 now. It's certainly plausible that as the overall brightness fades just a little that the absolute blacks could go a little lower rendering a more pleasing picture overall. In the case of the NEC, it has plenty of brightness to spare so I'm not too worried about losing a little.

This could mean it only gets better and better from here on. :)

I just watched my second DVD on the Oppo/NEC combination. This was 'The Quiet American'. The first scene is very dark and at night. Moreso, the movie format shows the top and bottom black bars.

In previous cases if I set the black levels to where the bars don't show, the details on the black water would have been lost almost completely. Now, I could see the outlines of the boats on the water. The movie has lots of dark scenes and I have never seen the NEC do better with this type of picture. This movie is excellent for testing a sets performance with difficult scenes for long periods of time.

However, just for comparison we later tested this on our Panny. I found the Panny to have slightly more detail (the boats and shadows in the water were more defined and clearer) in the very first scene and in the dark restaurant scenes as well. So, I still give the edge to the Panny for DVD. But the NEC is very watchable and I would not complain about the difference between the commercial Panny 7UY and my NEC.

But I too believe that as the set gives up some brightnes the blacks will improve further. In fact the very next scene after the night scene is very bright day, the NEC seemed a tad too bright, when compared to the Panny.

However, if you are ok with adjusting the set between as the movie is playing, you can get Panny level PQ even for DVD, my wife doesn't let me :rolleyes:

----------------

Yeah. I'm happy with the decision of getting the Oppo (recommended thanks to someone on this forum) :)

Actually that's what I did (and have been doing). Adjusting sharpness up and brightness and color down to get the best picture.

Superbit DVDs are breathtaking on pretty much any set, but would love to stock up on them as they become available :p
Hey plazaman , please post your NEC and Oppo setting when you get a chance.

I use the cpcat+LisaM - minus a couple clicks of GG, which looks beyond great for HDTV, but I am not sure it is optimum for the Oppo DVD I mean it is awesome but maybe there is awesomer ;), so I am going to play a little there... but am curious what your best "average settings " (realizing you are adjusting) are for the Oppp/NEC (can post in setting thread if you want)

BTW How's that superbit of Lawarence of Arabia...

Need convenient small speakers attached to set for everyday viewing. NECs are expensive and not as tall at the 50xr5a itself -- I think NEC makes taller speakers matching their industrial 50" set, anyone tried these?

Or, has anyone bought 3rdparty speakers that look good attached to / mounted very close to the NEC 50"?

Need convenient small speakers attached to set for everyday viewing. NECs are expensive and not as tall at the 50xr5a itself -- I think NEC makes taller speakers matching their industrial 50" set, anyone tried these?

Or, has anyone bought 3rdparty speakers that look good attached to / mounted very close to the NEC 50"?

Would you consider a horizontal sound bar from Yamaha or Polk Audio?

Hey plazaman , please post your NEC and Oppo setting when you get a chance.

I use the cpcat+LisaM - minus a couple clicks of GG, which looks beyond great for HDTV, but I am not sure it is optimum for the Oppo DVD I mean it is awesome but maybe there is awesomer ;), so I am going to play a little there... but am curious what your best "average settings " (realizing you are adjusting) are for the Oppp/NEC (can post in setting thread if you want)

BTW How's that superbit of Lawarence of Arabia...
--------------------

I'll make a note to myself to post the settings. I may need a little more tweaking to get it perfect, but that Oppo is a good player (remember it is DVD after all) at that price :p

Among the superbit DVD the Spiderman (both) and Fifth Element ones are the most impressive for both PQ and audio. I used them for calibrating the Pannu 7UY. I may do the same with the NEC. I haven't compared it to the regular WS DVD, but the superbit version of Lawrence of Arabia has excellent audio and the picture is very very good, but not great (compared to the others) - may be because it is an older film. The sound and the image makes it an awesome film to watch on superbit.

I tried the cpcat+LisaM settings, and like you say, it's great for HD. I then went with one of the original cpcat settings, with low brightness and high contrast. I have since tried to dial up the brightness, but end up dialing it down again to the initial settings. In general I have the color turned down, the contrast up and brightness down. I'll post my settings if I remember next time I near the set.

I read an article on the "Steaming rat' method of calibrating a plasma on this forum. Basically it says, don't follow rules just set it so that it looks good for you and don't be afraid to adjust the picture based on what you are viewing. I think this applies well to the NEC. The picture is so versatile that I can pretty much get as good an image as possible for any scene, but there is the problem of always holding the remote and adjusting on demand - I have no problems, but the wife isn't a fan of that! My approach is don't stop until the awesome is awesomer and the awesomer is the awesomest :rolleyes:

Are the universal models all pretty comparable?

I preordered the toshiba hd player from tweeter, got a call today the player is in Tomorrow after work I"ll swing by to pick it up. In the hddvd section of the forum
one tread has been viewed 130765 times :) I"ll post my impressions with the xr5
as soon as I have set up.

Forgive me for not reading through as I'm stepping out the door right now but......

Is there somewhere I can see these sets at a B&M in Southern California???


TIA!
redgtxdi,

None that I've found in Cali. I've tried the LA and SF areas but no luck. All of these places seem to be commerical sales first, consumer second. They didn't have any displays available when I called a few weeks ago and they couldn't really tell you much about the consumer models you didn't already know from the website. They can give you pricing but that's about it. Keep trying though because I hope you have better luck. I'm about to go on blind faith.

--------------------

I'll make a note to myself to post the settings. I may need a little more tweaking to get it perfect, but that Oppo is a good player (remember it is DVD after all) at that price :p

I tried the cpcat+LisaM settings, and like you say, it's great for HD. I then went with one of the original cpcat settings, with low brightness and high contrast. I have since tried to dial up the brightness, but end up dialing it down again to the initial settings. In general I have the color turned down, the contrast up and brightness down. I'll post my settings if I remember next time I near the set.

I read an article on the "Steaming rat' method of calibrating a plasma on this forum. Basically it says, don't follow rules just set it so that it looks good for you and don't be afraid to adjust the picture based on what you are viewing. I think this applies well to the NEC. The picture is so versatile that I can pretty much get as good an image as possible for any scene, but there is the problem of always holding the remote and adjusting on demand - I have no problems, but the wife isn't a fan of that! My approach is don't stop until the awesome is awesomer and the awesomer is the awesomest :rolleyes:
Thanks and fair enough... I will keep doing some tweeking... and post mine as well.

redgtxdi,

None that I've found in Cali. I've tried the LA and SF areas but no luck. All of these places seem to be commerical sales first, consumer second. They didn't have any displays available when I called a few weeks ago and they couldn't really tell you much about the consumer models you didn't already know from the website. They can give you pricing but that's about it. Keep trying though because I hope you have better luck. I'm about to go on blind faith.

I've yet to see one of us "blind faithers" regret it yet. Except that we didn't do it sooner :D

The NEC line is just stunning, and the prices do rival (if not beat) those that the big box stores are charging. To me it was a no brainer. More knowledgeable salespeople who actually gave a damn about me, competitive pricing to what was available through local vendors, and to be honest, a superior product. Nothing I saw before or since I bought the NEC has come close in quality, with some products costing twice as much.

I preordered the toshiba hd player from tweeter, got a call today the player is in Tomorrow after work I"ll swing by to pick it up. In the hddvd section of the forum
one tread has been viewed 130765 times :) I"ll post my impressions with the xr5
as soon as I have set up.

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say. I was going to hold out a bit on the new players to see what was going to happen with the format war, but I'm being awful tempted. :D

I preordered the toshiba hd player from tweeter, got a call today the player is in Tomorrow after work I"ll swing by to pick it up. In the hddvd section of the forum
one tread has been viewed 130765 times :) I"ll post my impressions with the xr5
as soon as I have set up.

Very interesting. Looking forward to hearing about this. :cool:

I've yet to see one of us "blind faithers" regret it yet. Except that we didn't do it sooner :D

The NEC line is just stunning, and the prices do rival (if not beat) those that the big box stores are charging. To me it was a no brainer. More knowledgeable salespeople who actually gave a damn about me, competitive pricing to what was available through local vendors, and to be honest, a superior product. Nothing I saw before or since I bought the NEC has come close in quality, with some products costing twice as much.
-------------

you mean 'do not come close' in the quality of picture, or the general build of the display or both?

From my experience the XR5 is definitely in my top 5 list, I (personally) prefer it over the new consumer Panny (60U) factoring in picture, build quality and aesthetics (I am not bashing the Panny here since you can see from the 60U thread that I believe that is a very good set as well). However, IMHO the displays from the top vendors are pretty close in overall quality and the small nuances make one set better than another (marginally) for different viewing purposes.

I've spent a fair amount of time (my wife would say too much :rolleyes: ) looking and comparing various plasmas in many different environment. My top 5 50 inch plasma (JMHO) sets so far are as follows (I am factoring in PQ, aesthetics and price): In general I believe you will be glad if you bought any of these and probably will not regret your decision.

1. Panasonic 8UK - my reference for plasma PQ!
2. Pioneer Elite - Awesome for HD content, ok with low quality DVD, picture is much brighter than the Panny 8UK, great styling if you like the all black look (like I do)
3. NEC XR5 - Has better connectivity and warranty than the Panny 8UK. Blacks and contrasts appear to be slightly worse, but picture brightness is slightly higher, so does not quite match the Panny 8UK for SD and regular DVD viewing (JMHO). Picture has more 'pop' than the Panny for HD content.
4. Pioneer 5060 - Supposedly has the same PQ as the Elites, but I have tested them side-by-side with the same DVD and the PQ on the Elite somehow seems better to me. The black levels and contrast on the 5060 seem a little worse than the NEC (IMHO), but picture is a little brighter than the NEC!
5 (tie). NEC XM5 - I haven't seen how this set handles HD content using a STB, but was very impressive with HD content from a HTPC. I also like the thin grey charcoal bezel.
5 (tie). Panasonic 60U. On paper the PQ on this set should be better than the 8UK, but somehow I haven't been able to see the same crispness and clarity when viewing either DVD or HD content that I find on a well calibrated Panny 8UK (JMHO). I am also not a fan of the cheap looking stand. I would get the 60U, only if I were sure to put it on a wall. However, most owners seem very very satisfied. For PQ alone, I found that the 60U looks a little better than the 5060 (I saw them side-by-side in Tweeter and adjusted the pictures of both sets using their remote), but it's the aesthetics, the lack of advanced picture settings and the inability to save individual input settings that is a deal breaker for me. If you don't care about that and only care about PQ, this is probably the best set at its price.
7. Fujitsu - I guess you have to be a videophile to truly appreciate this set. I have seen this a few times and each time I found the PQ to be similar to the 8UK - the blacks levels are excellent and the overall PQ is also excellent, but at 2X the price of other sets I am not sure I would pay the premium to get the slightly better PQ (that I cannot seem to find over the Panny 8UK).

There are a couple of other new models out there that are pretty good and somewhat close to the others...but I would not put them in the same league (JMHO)

Hitachi - the Directors series (the 55 inch screen is a novelty)
The new LG looks nice, but I haven't really evaluated it much. Plus, the 60U easily outperformed it when I saw them next to each other in a CC (I did not mess with the LG settings, so I don't know what its potential is)

I personally would never get a samsung - my gym has them all over the place (42 inch Samsung Plasmas) and they do show HD content. I spent a couple of hours trying to fix the picture on one and there is no way that you can get them to show a respectable picture (JMHO). The vivid picture is somehow just built into it's DNA and even if you turn it down, somehow it pops right back!

Anyway, sorry for the long post here. But, my point is that as a consumer you have a lot of really excellent choices and clearly you will be swayed towards one based on what is important to you.

The gripe I have with NEC is that they don't make the consumer model available for public viewing. If a company has a policy of not making their commercial models available in retail stores I can understand, but what is the logic of not making your consumer model available - especially when almost all of them carry their LCD monitors!

In the case of the Pioneer and Panasonics you can at least see the consumer models and get an idea of what you may get. But an NEC has to be bought largely unseen based on feedback from places like this forum. Thankfully, this thread is a testimony to the excellent quality of the product and word of mouth is that the XR5 is a formidable display - but many people are clearly uncomfortable putting down 4K or so of their hard earned money on a CE product they cannot see or compare. I even wrote to NEC complaining about this and that they need to find a way to either put their consumer panels on display or get out of the consumer panel market altogether (unless they are trying to create some sort of a 'mystique' brand image - I'm still waiting for their response :rolleyes:

Sorry for the rant....and happy viewing :)

How can the 8UK be your top choice when it won't stretch HD content and will not accept a 1080p signal?

How can the 8UK be your top choice when it won't stretch HD content and will not accept a 1080p signal?

1. I don't care about 1080p content (for now at least), so it hasn't factored in my choice. Anyway, I am assuming that since one can feed the 8UK native res, one could use a HTPC or external scaler to display 1080p content. Clearly, it won't display 1080p in 1080p resolution, but none of the other plasmas I mentioned will either....

2. Stretching HD also isn't an issue for me since I can stretch it using the STB remote. Also, the only HD content that needs to be stretched are those that are not in HD - i.e. channel is sending 480i content over a HD channel. This also applies to my Panny 7UY which won't stretch it. I control all my devices via a Harmony 880 remote and if needed stretching is not a problem.

3. My primary viewing is with DVD and movies (rather than waching low def content on HD channels), so viewing those types of content are important to me and I have found the 8UK to be the best at this type of content (compared to the others)

Anyway, the rankings were my 'completely subjective' rankings based on 'my experiences' with the various plasma displays. I am sure others would have a completely different opinion from me, which is why I qualified everything with IMHO and JMHO. Many would place the Pioneers and NEC above the Pannys - that's completely understandable and justifiable (IMHO) ;)

OTOH: Anyway, I wasn't aware the 8UK does not accept 1080p signal. From their spec sheet this is what they support. Seems like the display accepts both 1080i and 1080p.

Scanning format 525 (480) / 60i · 60p, 625 (575) / 50i · 50p, 750 (720) / 60p · 50p, 1125 (1080) / 60i · 50i · 24p · 25p
· 30p · 24sF ···· SMPTE274M, 1250 (1080) / 50i

However, I am not an expert and will be glad to be corrected. 1080p hasn't yet factored in my evaluations so far.....

Well I'm in my third week of owning the XR5, and yes, I still haven't reached that 100 hour breakin point yet. I'm working on it though. Meanwhile, I am trying to make a sound decision(no pun intended) on what external speakers to add to the set. I will be using in wall speakers, flush mounted. I recently bought and auditioned my first set of in wall speakers. I hooked them up to the XR5 and, let's say, I was far less than impressed. Not the XR5's problem, but these speakers were horrible. Am I going to have to spend big bucks to get good sounding in wall speakers? I would like to start construction on the wall where my XR5 will eventually be mounted, so any help would be appreciated.

I'll throw this out one more time. Those of you who may have a power conditioner in their system might want tell us your thoughts.
I posted earlier that I had the power coupling & negative changed at the pole for my home.
MY xr5 using mine-Cpat and tony17 setting was a beautiful picture; everyone who saw it said so too. My DVD PQ was great also, but I though I could ring out some PQ with a new player. After the power coupling fix, the PQ is ALLOT better, color is cleaner-more 3-D, more 35mm effect. I have not purchased a power conditioner yet but will soon, to see if that helps too. But I really do not need any better PQ than I currently have. -Well until HD comes out.

TJ2,

Aperion has some new in-wall speakers, and they have always gotten good reviews of their products. I am looking at Orb Audio for my solution, and liking what I see very much. The Wife likes it too, which is very important to me.

Speakers are musical instruments that resonate throughout their entire cabinet. The sound does not just come out the front; it is the entire enclosure that vibrates.

By building a speaker into the wall, the speaker cabinet is eliminated. This is a bad thing, and it is hard to imagine any in-wall speaker sounding decent. It would be like building a violin into the wall so that only the strings were visible/audible, or building a piano into the wall so that only the keyboard stuck out. There is a reason pianos have large resonant chambers, and violins are shaped with a harmonic body, and speakers likewise are fine tuned and engineered so their cabinet contributes to the sound.

By building the speaker in wall, the customer trades off a huge chunk of sound quality. In wall speakers are targetted to the market segment who want to save space at the sacrifice of sound quality.

I recently bought and auditioned my first set of in wall speakers. I hooked them up to the XR5 and, let's say, I was far less than impressed.

Just to be clear, you're not using the internal amp of the TV to drive the speakers, right?

My guess is that you can find all sorts of speaker suggestions in the speaker forum.

Well I'm in my third week of owning the XR5, and yes, I still haven't reached that 100 hour breakin point yet. I'm working on it though. Meanwhile, I am trying to make a sound decision(no pun intended) on what external speakers to add to the set. I will be using in wall speakers, flush mounted. I recently bought and auditioned my first set of in wall speakers. I hooked them up to the XR5 and, let's say, I was far less than impressed. Not the XR5's problem, but these speakers were horrible. Am I going to have to spend big bucks to get good sounding in wall speakers? I would like to start construction on the wall where my XR5 will eventually be mounted, so any help would be appreciated.

If you are talking about running these off the internal amp in the panel I'd suggest a moderately sensitive speaker say 89db or higher and 8 ohms or higher. This will get you plenty of volume and be easy on the internal panel amp. I think Klipsch has started making in-wall models now and they are usually very sensitve/easy to drive due to the horn design.

If you're talking speakers in general hooked to your A/V amp, your choices are endless. Maybe talk to your local B&M HT dealer.

OTOH: Anyway, I wasn't aware the 8UK does not accept 1080p signal. From their spec sheet this is what they support. Seems like the display accepts both 1080i and 1080p.

Scanning format 525 (480) / 60i · 60p, 625 (575) / 50i · 50p, 750 (720) / 60p · 50p, 1125 (1080) / 60i · 50i · 24p · 25p
· 30p · 24sF ···· SMPTE274M, 1250 (1080) / 50i

However, I am not an expert and will be glad to be corrected. 1080p hasn't yet factored in my evaluations so far.....


The 8UK according to the specs accepts 1080p24, 1080p24sf, 1080p30 over VGA only. It will not accept 1080p60 over any input.

It will not accept any form of 1080p over DVI or HDMI. I'm not sure if this could be added with future blade upgrades but it's possible.

1080p60, 1080p24 input could provide at least a theoretical advantage for BD. HD-DVD at least initially is only offering 1080i output anyway.

None of this should be considered deal-breaking IMO only as a piece of the puzzle.
1080i input from BD/HD-DVD should still look stellar assuming the display has adequate 1080i processing.

After talking to my local high end audio specialist, I have decided against buying in wall speakers to hook up to the XR5's internal amp. I think I will just stick with running the audio through my home theater setup rather than deal with another set of speakers. Thanks again. :)

1. I don't care about 1080p content (for now at least), so it hasn't factored in my choice. Anyway, I am assuming that since one can feed the 8UK native res, one could use a HTPC or external scaler to display 1080p content. Clearly, it won't display 1080p in 1080p resolution, but none of the other plasmas I mentioned will either....

2. Stretching HD also isn't an issue for me since I can stretch it using the STB remote. Also, the only HD content that needs to be stretched are those that are not in HD - i.e. channel is sending 480i content over a HD channel. This also applies to my Panny 7UY which won't stretch it. I control all my devices via a Harmony 880 remote and if needed stretching is not a problem.

3. My primary viewing is with DVD and movies (rather than waching low def content on HD channels), so viewing those types of content are important to me and I have found the 8UK to be the best at this type of content (compared to the others)

Anyway, the rankings were my 'completely subjective' rankings based on 'my experiences' with the various plasma displays. I am sure others would have a completely different opinion from me, which is why I qualified everything with IMHO and JMHO. Many would place the Pioneers and NEC above the Pannys - that's completely understandable and justifiable (IMHO) ;)

OTOH: Anyway, I wasn't aware the 8UK does not accept 1080p signal. From their spec sheet this is what they support. Seems like the display accepts both 1080i and 1080p.

Scanning format 525 (480) / 60i · 60p, 625 (575) / 50i · 50p, 750 (720) / 60p · 50p, 1125 (1080) / 60i · 50i · 24p · 25p
· 30p · 24sF ···· SMPTE274M, 1250 (1080) / 50i

However, I am not an expert and will be glad to be corrected. 1080p hasn't yet factored in my evaluations so far.....

Plazman,
I must agree with everything you are saying.
And I am a not so happy owner of the NEC XR5.
I owned and sold to get the NEC XR5 a Panasonic 42” ED Plasma.
I wanted a 50” or bigger Plasma.
Before buying the NEC I looked at another Panasonic and the Pioneer Elite.
But due to the high reviews of the NEC I bought one sight unseen, big mistake!
On SD channels the NEC XR5 can not come close to the Panasonic I owned and on HD channels it is better but not jaw dropping better.
SD channels all look a little off focus and all channels, SD and HD, look like they have a very light fog or haze over them.
I can not believe it is my setup because I had the very same setup when I had the Panasonic.
At this time NEC Tec support is not much help but they do keep giving me suggestions to try.
I guess as a last resort I could pay another $400.00 and see if a professional calibration would help.
I just hate to spend another $400.00 only to find out I now have a $4400.00 lemon.

I just hate to spend another $400.00 only to find out I now have a $4400.00 lemon.



I suspect either you have a defective set or an equipment setup problem. Even with the settings out of the box the XR5 is still excellent, so my advice would be to diagnose the problem. Maybe you could post the settings you are using including connection type as well as associated equipment connected.

ME TOO! After some anxious waiting for a (4hrs) late delivery driver yesterday I setup my 50xr5 today and am thoroughly impressed. I'm glad I went for the 50 and didn't settle for the 42.

My ONLY gripes are lack of AUDIO OUT (should have been a very easy additional since it already has an amp) and why the heck they put the inputs on the side rather then the lower back. I guess to make you spend another 50-70 bucks on the cover. :)

PQ was exceptional on HD and very acceptable on SD out of the box.

Thanks to Chris @ cleveland plasma for the good deal and great service.

After months of reading this forum, I am finally a member myself. 50xr5 arived yesterday and is hanging on my wall today. Watching nemo with my kid now...

thanks Chris for a super fast and smooth transaction...

I suspect either you have a defective set or an equipment setup problem. Even with the settings out of the box the XR5 is still excellent, so my advice would be to diagnose the problem. Maybe you could post the settings you are using including connection type as well as associated equipment connected.


CPCAT,
Here is my setup.
Dish Network 622 receiver hooked to the NEC XR5 by HDMI cable.(could it be the HDMI cable? This is the only difference in hook up from my Panasonic)
622 receiver set to 1080I, 16x9 picture size
NEC XR5 set to receive 1080I signal, everything else set to factory default settings.
For sound I am using a Bose Life style system hooked directly to the 622 receiver.
I have a cheap DVD Cyberhome player hooked by S-video cable; by the way this gives me a pretty good picture, not quite the picture I was getting on my Panasonic ED TV.
CPCAT any recommendations would be GREATLY appreciated!!


As a side note the NEC Tec just got back to me and they are willing to have the TV sent back to NEC for evaluation.
I am not real wild about this for 2 reasons.
(1) I already disposed of the shipping carton.
(2) I do not like the idea of being without any TV for how knows how long, we watch a lot of TV.

Would you consider a horizontal sound bar from Yamaha or Polk Audio?

I might - I am not familiar with those. I had in mind two speakers, one on each side.

CPCAT,
Here is my setup.
Dish Network 622 receiver hooked to the NEC XR5 by HDMI cable.(could it be the HDMI cable? This is the only difference in hook up from my Panasonic)
622 receiver set to 1080I, 16x9 picture size
NEC XR5 set to receive 1080I signal, everything else set to factory default settings.
For sound I am using a Bose Life style system hooked directly to the 622 receiver.
I have a cheap DVD Cyberhome player hooked by S-video cable; by the way this gives me a pretty good picture, not quite the picture I was getting on my Panasonic ED TV.
CPCAT any recommendations would be GREATLY appreciated!!


As a side note the NEC Tec just got back to me and they are willing to have the TV sent back to NEC for evaluation.
I am not real wild about this for 2 reasons.
(1) I already disposed of the shipping carton.
(2) I do not like the idea of being without any TV for how knows how long, we watch a lot of TV.

It sounds like from what you describe that this may be a black level issue.
I couldn't access the manual on the 622 via the E* site, but I would assume the HDMI output should be set on the video standard. If you have an HDMI setup of some sort on the receiver, it should be set to "standard" or "video". "Expanded" and "PC" if these settings are available will correspond to a PC level output which you don't want. If you don't have a setting of this sort, it's likely defaulted for video.

Go to the Setup menu on the XR5 and be sure HDMI is set to "high". Setup level (pedestal) in the Picture menu should be at zero for HDMI input. Also, go to the Signal Info menu and be sure you are receiving 1080i (should say 1920 x 1080 at memory 93).

If this doesn't do it, try component output from the 622. For component output, setup level (pedestal) should be around 3.75 typically but this can vary somewhat.

It would be nice to check the black level with something like AVIA or THX Optimizer but it may not be comparable if using s-video. I don't have an s-video source connected so I can't comment on whether it seems equivalent in black level/contrast setup to component and HDMI.

Another way to set black level is to tune to a station with black bars like a 4:3 broadcast on an HD channel. Get up close to the TV so that you can see the dithering noise inside the black section. Lower the brightness just until the point that the dithering completely goes away. Until this point, you don't have the blackest black possible, lower than this and your black gets no darker but you lose shadow detail. I keep mine one or maybe two ticks above this point.

Hope this helps. Don't give up, one way or another it will get fixed.

I might - I am not familiar with those. I had in mind two speakers, one on each side.

Those are the single speaker that you place under the display (much like a center channel) that supposedly gives the effect of surround sound. I don't debate whether they do or don't, but simply that they are usually quite a bit more expensive than a much better dedicated true 5.1 setup.

[COLOR=Yellow]I owned and sold to get the NEC XR5 a Panasonic 42” ED Plasma.
I wanted a 50” or bigger Plasma.
On SD channels the NEC XR5 can not come close to the Panasonic I owned and on HD channels it is better but not jaw dropping better.[COLOR]

Sea157,

You need to realize that you are coming from a 42ED to a 50HD and set your expectations accordingly. I don't think there is a 50 inch plasma out there that will come close to a 42ED's rendering of an SD signal. Not even the AVMII in the Fujitsu's will do that. Good luck in getting it sorted out...

CPCAT,
Here is my setup.
Dish Network 622 receiver hooked to the NEC XR5 by HDMI cable.(could it be the HDMI cable? This is the only difference in hook up from my Panasonic)
622 receiver set to 1080I, 16x9 picture size
NEC XR5 set to receive 1080I signal, everything else set to factory default settings.
For sound I am using a Bose Life style system hooked directly to the 622 receiver.
I have a cheap DVD Cyberhome player hooked by S-video cable; by the way this gives me a pretty good picture, not quite the picture I was getting on my Panasonic ED TV.
CPCAT any recommendations would be GREATLY appreciated!!


As a side note the NEC Tec just got back to me and they are willing to have the TV sent back to NEC for evaluation.
I am not real wild about this for 2 reasons.
(1) I already disposed of the shipping carton.
(2) I do not like the idea of being without any TV for how knows how long, we watch a lot of TV.
You are using S-Video connection for DVD on a $4,000 plasma? I think you might need to spend some money on better connections and possibly components. You are the only person I have come across who was not satisfied with the XR5. If your Panasonic ED plasma had a better picture than the Xr5, then you have definitely got a problem with your XR5. This is a fabulous plasma display, and I'm sure we can help you with your problem.

It sounds like from what you describe that this may be a black level issue.
I couldn't access the manual on the 622 via the E* site, but I would assume the HDMI output should be set on the video standard. If you have an HDMI setup of some sort on the receiver, it should be set to "standard" or "video". "Expanded" and "PC" if these settings are available will correspond to a PC level output which you don't want. If you don't have a setting of this sort, it's likely defaulted for video.

Go to the Setup menu on the XR5 and be sure HDMI is set to "high". Setup level (pedestal) in the Picture menu should be at zero for HDMI input. Also, go to the Signal Info menu and be sure you are receiving 1080i (should say 1920 x 1080 at memory 93).

If this doesn't do it, try component output from the 622. For component output, setup level (pedestal) should be around 3.75 typically but this can vary somewhat.

It would be nice to check the black level with something like AVIA or THX Optimizer but it may not be comparable if using s-video. I don't have an s-video source connected so I can't comment on whether it seems equivalent in black level/contrast setup to component and HDMI.

Another way to set black level is to tune to a station with black bars like a 4:3 broadcast on an HD channel. Get up close to the TV so that you can see the dithering noise inside the black section. Lower the brightness just until the point that the dithering completely goes away. Until this point, you don't have the blackest black possible, lower than this and your black gets no darker but you lose shadow detail. I keep mine one or maybe two ticks above this point.

Hope this helps. Don't give up, one way or another it will get fixed.


CPCAT,
The only thing I noticed different from your recommendations is I am getting 1920 x 1080 but mine is at memory 94 not 93 as you said.
Might that make any difference?
I will try component hookup tomorrow instead of HDMI and see if that makes any difference.

Thanks for the help!
Steve.

CPCAT,
The only thing I noticed different from your recommendations is I am getting 1920 x 1080 but mine is at memory 94 not 93 as you said.
Might that make any difference?
I will try component hookup tomorrow instead of HDMI and see if that makes any difference.

Thanks for the help!
Steve.

I was mistaken. Memory 94 is 1080i and memory 93 is 720p.

Did you try setting the black level by looking at the dithering in the black bars?

CPCAT,
Here is my setup.
Dish Network 622 receiver hooked to the NEC XR5 by HDMI cable.(could it be the HDMI cable? This is the only difference in hook up from my Panasonic)
622 receiver set to 1080I, 16x9 picture size
NEC XR5 set to receive 1080I signal, everything else set to factory default settings.
For sound I am using a Bose Life style system hooked directly to the 622 receiver.
I have a cheap DVD Cyberhome player hooked by S-video cable; by the way this gives me a pretty good picture, not quite the picture I was getting on my Panasonic ED TV.
CPCAT any recommendations would be GREATLY appreciated!!


As a side note the NEC Tec just got back to me and they are willing to have the TV sent back to NEC for evaluation.
I am not real wild about this for 2 reasons.
(1) I already disposed of the shipping carton.
(2) I do not like the idea of being without any TV for how knows how long, we watch a lot of TV.
-------------------------------

Based on what did it for me:

1. I upgraded my DVD player to an Oppo (connected via HDMI) and now my DVD PQ has improved vastly - comparable to my Panny 7UY. Previously, like you I was a little dismayed at what the XR5 was putting out and was using it exclusively for HD viewing (SD looks better on my Panny as well). However, now inputting 720p from the Oppo to the NEC results in a pretty smooth and crisp picture that I am used to with my Panny. This is a cheap $200 soluion + cable if it works for you. I hear the Panny S97 DVD player also pairs really well with the NEC.

2. Using the S-Video input was another thing I learnt on the NEC - don't use it, unles you want to use it for SD content (see comment below)! I was using it at first since I thought passing 480i (which does not need component) would be fine. When I switched to 480p over component the picture improved (I don't think S-Video input accepts anything but 480i). Now with 720p or even 480p over HDMI DVDs look much nicer :p

3. I believe the NEC is designed for viewing HD and high quality DVDs. Colors and high resolution content is where it does really well. The excelent color depth, brightness and 'pop' that you get with HD content also results in SD content looking grainy and softer than in a Panny. My quick fix for this is to connect the STB via both S-Video and HDMI. I swith to the S-Video for non HD channels and that way increase contrast and blacks so that some of the graininess in the SD content is reduced.

4. A week ago I was putting in '0' as in zero hours on my NEC after just 2 months, because of the SD TV and DVD issue. Now, I've put in around 20 hours in the last three days. Now the Panny gets a little break ;)

Actually when I put my ranking together it was after a lot of thought, especially since I had spent sooooo much time evaluating these sets.

BTW: I agree with the post that even a Fujitsu with the AVMII (supposedly the most sophisticated) chip can match the DVD performance of a 42 inch Panny ED Plasma....

Before handing off your set, hopefully hey will tell you how long they intend to keep it. NEC support is supposed to be amongst the best.

Best of luck :)

Cpcat, there is a great review of the D* 622 over at DBSTALK.com and it reads like a manual. A terrific thread follows.

Plazman,
I must agree with everything you are saying.
......
Hey sea157 Just FYI...the Yellow Color Font you are using is making it verrrry difficult/nearly impossible for those not using the Default AVS Dark setting to read your posts (which I am trying to)...If you want to see what it looks like to a lot of us... go to the bottom left of the page and set the select box to "--- AVS White" and you will see what a lot of us see... which is bassically Light Yellow on Light Gray... reallly hard to read..

And BTW... I really hope you can work out your issues... because I as others have get Great HD, and Extremely Good DVD...I see none of the Haze you are speaking of... But I believe (based on no real data though) believe because the NEC Panel (Or any Very Good Panel) Have such High Resolution and Depth that they expose weak content, settings, calibration and cabling, power condition etc... I have Another question with that 622 have you tired to receive OTA HD...

I basically use a close variation of these settings....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7457413&&#post7457413

I run NEC + Oppo via HDMI @480p (Oppo is ~$200 investment + $20 Monoprice cable), If you ran that and still saw problems... I would suggest that youi may have a problem with the panel.

I Run TWC via SA83000HD via HDMI, so I can't really comment there... but I can say Good SD is Good/Fair, bad SD is POOR, but I don't watch much 3rd tier bad SD, but Good/Real HD like Disc HD HBO HD is Awesome!

Plazman:
I thought that SD content was even better on the XR5 than on the Pannys... I´m just to make a blind purchase, and all over the firsts posts of this thread tells that the XR5 has an excellent image for this type of content....
I´m going to use it to watch 50% SD content and 50% DVDs (I don´t have HD channels). If you put in my viewing position, you still prefer the NEC?

Plazman:
I thought that SD content was even better on the XR5 than on the Pannys... I´m just to make a blind purchase, and all over the firsts posts of this thread tells that the XR5 has an excellent image for this type of content....
I´m going to use it to watch 50% SD content and 50% DVDs (I don´t have HD channels). If you put in my viewing position, you still prefer the NEC?

Hmm. With strictly 480i/p content, you'd be better off with an ED set. The problem is that ED sets at 50 inches are getting hard to come by.

OTOH, with a larger screen, you really need the added resolution of HD sources. This is the whole point of HDTV. People watching on 19 inch screens won't see the difference anyway.

I guess if you are really watching only DVD and SD, I'd recc. getting the 42 inch Panny ED. At 50 inches, you aren't going to find the "right solution" because that size really isn't designed for SD unless you plan to sit fairly far away.

Anyone had the opportunity to do or see a comparison on the new Panny 50PX60U vs the 50XR5a?

Plazman:
I thought that SD content was even better on the XR5 than on the Pannys... I´m just to make a blind purchase, and all over the firsts posts of this thread tells that the XR5 has an excellent image for this type of content....
I´m going to use it to watch 50% SD content and 50% DVDs (I don´t have HD channels). If you put in my viewing position, you still prefer the NEC?
-------------------------

From my experience (as of now), both DVD and SD appear more pleasing to be - crisper and more defined (JMHO) on the Panny. In my very first view I felt that the NEC did better for all levels of TV viewing, however, as I have seen the 8UK on a more regular basis (IMHO) the new Pannys do better with SD content as well, since they are brighter than the older 7UY I have, but not as bright as NEC but with somewhat better black levels.

Overall since I am now using different settings on my NEC for SD content and HD content, I believe the PQ between my NEC as set now and the Panny is indistinguishable to me. However, DVD appears to be marginally better on the Panny, especially for lower quality DVDs.

I don't watch a lot of HD content, and that's why I was a wee bit concerned about the NEC for DVD viewing. Now with a better DVD player DVD viewing is completely saisfying to me.

If you are going to be using the set mainly for 480i/p content, you will really not be doing the NEC justice and I would recommend the Panny without reservation - you'll get better PQ and lower price. The warranty is the only thing you would care about then....

Anyone had the opportunity to do or see a comparison on the new Panny 50PX60U vs the 50XR5a?
-------------------------------

I have the 50XR5 and seen the Panny 60U in both store and at home. Here is my take:

1. I would not trade the XR5 for the 60U pure on my needs mainly due to the aesthetics and the lack advanced picture settings - it's a plug-and-play product.

2. The PQ on paper (I stress on paper) is the best in the industry! It has the highest contrast ratio, the Panny blacks and improved brightness and color depth so that it has the 'pop' that users of the NEC are familiar with when viewing HD content. So, with the perfect feed, you will probably get one of the best PQ available at any price in today's plasmas. Even with some minor settings the 60U looks very very impressive.

3. However, for me, the best of very thing does not present the best picture :confused: In general, I have been more impressed with the 8UK PQ (perhaps because it can be calibrated more finely) and the 8UK (JMHO) has an excellent balance of brightness, color, depth and black-levels.

If you go to BB and compare the 60U to a Pioneer 5060 you will get a good enough comparison (JMHO) of how the NEC compares to the 60U. Just remember to take the Panny (and the Pioneer) out of the torch mode to standard or cinema mode - the modes that you will probably use at home.

Plazman:
I thought that SD content was even better on the XR5 than on the Pannys... I´m just to make a blind purchase, and all over the firsts posts of this thread tells that the XR5 has an excellent image for this type of content....
I´m going to use it to watch 50% SD content and 50% DVDs (I don´t have HD channels). If you put in my viewing position, you still prefer the NEC?

I think this question could be answered better by someone with both panels in the same environment (hint, hint cpcat!) ;)

I think that SD quality can vary from carrier to carrier and channel to channel so greatly that it is impossible to make a conclusion going from one panel setup at one location to another panel setup in another location with possible different cable/sat providers and channels. I know that the difference between comcast and directv in my house is astonishing (with directv far inferior to cable).

Since cpcat has both panels in the same home, I think that would probably be the best comparison. Sorry to put you on the spot cpcat, but I thought that would probably yield the best response.