Alright, I've got another question for my fine high tech friends here. I am in the process of shuffling my displays into different rooms so I can make room for the XR5 in the home theater room. I am going to be putting my 37"Aquos in my bedroom and moving my Westinghouse 32" LCD into my son's room. Here is my dilemma. I have only two set top boxes right now, one HD and the other not. For now I am going to move the SD set top box into the boys room.(To young to appreciate HD yet) The HD box I own will be moved to the bedroom and used on the Aquos. Now for the XR5 I would like the best option available for the big dog in the house. Does anyone have any suggestions for a set top box for the XR5 that is compatible with dish network?

------------

Actually I have both Panny and NEC at home. However, my Panny is the commercial 50 inch 7UY series and my NEC is the XR5. The Panny is a year and a half older than my NEC (so has the advantage of being broken in, but the disadvantage of being an older generation). Both sets are in the same environment - my home. So, my subjective reports are based on what I am seeing. Both sets are hooked up to the same STB - SA8300.

I have yet to find someone who owns both the Panny 60U and the NEC XR5, or even a place that carries both sets for a true side-by-side comparison.

Plazman, I hear ya and didn't mean to dismiss your comments, but it seemed from your post that you were comparing the SD quality of the 8UK (which I know is at your friends house) to the XR5. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Plazman:
I thought that SD content was even better on the XR5 than on the Pannys... I´m just to make a blind purchase, and all over the firsts posts of this thread tells that the XR5 has an excellent image for this type of content....
I´m going to use it to watch 50% SD content and 50% DVDs (I don´t have HD channels). If you put in my viewing position, you still prefer the NEC?
Just to clarify my post...

I Run TWC via SA83000HD via HDMI, so I can't really comment there... but I can say Good SD is Good/Fair, bad SD is POOR, but I don't watch much 3rd tier bad SD, but Good/Real HD like Disc HD HBO HD is Awesome!

Good SD... Like Sci Fi Channel, Discovery, TBS etc look fine... and I am quite happy/enjoy watching them on the 50" NEC, I could not image going back to a "lower res solution"... when I say good, I mean just that.. But I will say once I started watching HD its hard to go back... plus all the Core Stations ABC, CBS, NBC, (and some WB, UPN mix) HBO some PPV are all HD.. so they look great...Some SD channels do not look so great ... Some of the niche sations etc... DVDs look fantastic... (have not watched on ED so no opinion there)

But in the end you have to get what makes you happy.... Good luck

Plazman, I hear ya and didn't mean to dismiss your comments, but it seemed from your post that you were comparing the SD quality of the 8UK (which I know is at your friends house) to the XR5. Sorry if I misunderstood.
---------------

Not to belabor the point. But I'm glad you mentioned cpcat. I continue to qualify my comment by IMHO and JMHO because my observations should be considered as a layman's observation based on rudimentary skills.

In the plasma threads I have found cpcats observations be highly honest, reliable and based on a very good understanding of the displays he is talking about. So, if a third-person were relying on the advice of me or someone like cpcat, I would give at least 2 to 3 times extra weightage on what he says. All I am trying to do is to be honest with my impressions so that anyone buying a set unseen can gauge some of the pros and cons, just another data point.

The reason I point out some of the PQ issues I have with the NEC is not because there are major shortcomings in the PQ, but because most people will never have done a A-B comparison before buying (something that NEC needs to fix IMHO), just go to the Bose reviews and the #1 complaint is that Bose does not allow A-B comparisons, why? does it hurt their sales? Do they want it that way? Who knows :rolleyes: My wife was more than happy to buy a Bose by just listening to it in the Bose store and knowing that was her perfect set (she would have bought the thing unseen :rolleyes: ), but many would like to do a A-B comparison before spending their hard-earned money! Look at the excellent review the XR4 got with PC Magazine, what is NEC afraid of? they are a big company they can get shelf space easily.....this is not complicated stuff - big company, excellent product, need shelf space, folks will lay down the red carpet :o

If it were not for this forum, for this thread, how many XR5 would NEC be selling (interesting to see how many distinct members are posting on this thread - probably less than 300 active would be my guess (clearly a vast majority of owners never post))? Check out the NEC website, try to navigate it, it's not a serious online store, they don't have retail outlets :rolleyes: Thank God for Chris at Cleveland Plasma! (although got mine from VA, but 100% customer satisfaction from Chris is awesome) :)

Nice beautiful spring day here in Washington DC....nice to sit outside....thank God for wireless broadband :D

So the conclusion of the Panny beaters is that SD, analog inputs (S-video) and low quality DVD's look better on their set but the XR5A outshines the Panny in High Definition and with high quality DVD's. Looks like I made the right choice on my NEC. :D

So the conclusion of the Panny beaters is that SD, analog inputs (S-video) and low quality DVD's look better on their set but the XR5A outshines the Panny in High Definition and with high quality DVD's. Looks like I made the right choice on my NEC. :D
I will second that shout out! :D

So the conclusion of the Panny beaters is that SD, analog inputs (S-video) and low quality DVD's look better on their set but the XR5A outshines the Panny in High Definition and with high quality DVD's. Looks like I made the right choice on my NEC. :D
-------------------

As long as you are comparing an older generation Panny with the current generation NEC (at least in my case) you'll be happy with the outcome!

Most reviews have said that the Panny 8UK and the new 60U are significant improvements over their preceeding models. So, one would need to factor in how much better the HD with the NEC is (if at all) when compared to the newer Panny sets and if the price difference (the NEC is more expensive) justifies it for you.....well could.

I see not reason why anyone should consider the NEC a bad buy

-------------------

As long as you are comparing an older generation Panny with the current generation NEC (at least in my case) you'll be happy with the outcome!

Most reviews have said that the Panny 8UK and the new 60U are significant improvements over their preceeding models. So, one would need to factor in how much better the HD with the NEC is (if at all) when compared to the newer Panny sets and if the price difference (the NEC is more expensive) justifies it for you.....well could.

I see not reason why anyone should consider the NEC a bad buy
I think your unbiased approach should be credited as pretty straight foreword and an observation to take note of, however, PQ comparisions with Panasonic aside, most, if not all people who have purchased the NEC brand are very satisfied. I auditioned countless plasmas before deciding on the NEC XR5. I choose the XR5 not only because of the exceptional reviews on PQ, but also on other very important variables that need be mentioned. The new Panasonics have received some pretty negative press on the "look" of the display. (Meaning the frame around the display was less than pleasing to most people.) Second, we don't all need an internal tuner because a good number of viewers receive transmission via satellite. (set top box) Thirdly, not everyone needs speakers on the display which add more size to the unit and is pointless if you decide not to use the speakers included with the display. The NEC gives you the option of choosing what you would like to add to the display. It's kind of like purchasing (separates) for a high end audio system. Nothing against Panasonic, but I prefer to be in control of what I want and don't want included with my display. Panasonic was one of the front runners in my decision making process in choosing a quality PDP. (Until I found NEC) :)

I would definatley question that an NEC could better a 50-60 series Panasonic in SD. This seems to be the consensus from those who have seen both.

I would definatley question that an NEC could better a 50-60 series Panasonic in SD. This seems to be the consensus from those who have seen both.
Go ahead and question. It's a free world (Even in "Zion" your listed location) I think. ;) SD PQ most likely wasn't a real huge issue to most people buying an "HD" plasma for several thousand dollars. If a consumer was that concerned with quality SD PQ then he or she does not need to step into the world of high end displays. The XR5 does very good with SD considering it's(SD) such poor quality to begin with. I however watch very little SD programming, so the XR5 is perfect for the consumer who watches primarily high quality signals. :)

I would definatley question that an NEC could better a 50-60 series Panasonic in SD. This seems to be the consensus from those who have seen both.

Not to doubt you Elemental, but where are you seeing that. If I recall correctly, cpcat, had his lumagen scaler hooked to his panasonic px50u for SD, as it was obviously better than the internal scaler (as an outboard scaler should). He then hooked this up to his NEC and found the NEC's scaler to be superior. To me, that would seem that the NEC is superior to both the lumagen, and certainly the Panny.

I am really not trying to start a mine is better than yours war here, as I truely feel they are both great, and the minute differences are probably not worth the effort we're putting into it. However, I just want the statements to be accurate, for those that jump into threads late and only read the last posts.

PS - I saw you just setup your first plasma - hope your enjoying!!!! How the heck are you finding time to post anyway!!!! :)

Not to doubt you Elemental, but where are you seeing that. If I recall correctly, cpcat, had his lumagen scaler hooked to his panasonic px50u for SD, as it was obviously better than the internal scaler (as an outboard scaler should). He then hooked this up to his NEC and found the NEC's scaler to be superior. To me, that would seem that the NEC is superior to both the lumagen, and certainly the Panny.

I am really not trying to start a mine is better than yours war here, as I truely feel they are both great, and the minute differences are probably not worth the effort we're putting into it. However, I just want the statements to be accurate, for those that jump into threads late and only read the last posts.

PS - I saw you just setup your first plasma - hope your enjoying!!!! How the heck are you finding time to post anyway!!!! :)

Hey, no problem. I am not trying to knock an excellent (I believe) brand like NEC.
I would even say the HD on an NEC might outdo the best Pioneer and Panasonic has at the moment.
I am really in no position to say from first hand experience which is what I usually do so I will stay mum on the NEC until I know better. So hard to find these things out in the wild :D .
Yes...it's killing me having to 'work' while my new toy is waiting for me at home. :D

Oh and TJ2, there is never peace in ZION! ;)

Alright, I've got another question for my fine high tech friends here. I am in the process of shuffling my displays into different rooms so I can make room for the XR5 in the home theater room. I am going to be putting my 37"Aquos in my bedroom and moving my Westinghouse 32" LCD into my son's room. Here is my dilemma. I have only two set top boxes right now, one HD and the other not. For now I am going to move the SD set top box into the boys room.(To young to appreciate HD yet) The HD box I own will be moved to the bedroom and used on the Aquos. Now for the XR5 I would like the best option available for the big dog in the house. Does anyone have any suggestions for a set top box for the XR5 that is compatible with dish network?


I've heard good stuff about the VIP622 DVR from Dish. I'm DirecTV, so I can't vouch to that side of the DBS fence. :)

Go ahead and question. It's a free world (Even in "Zion" your listed location) I think. ;) SD PQ most likely wasn't a real huge issue to most people buying an "HD" plasma for several thousand dollars. If a consumer was that concerned with quality SD PQ then he or she does not need to step into the world of high end displays. The XR5 does very good with SD considering it's(SD) such poor quality to begin with. I however watch very little SD programming, so the XR5 is perfect for the consumer who watches primarily high quality signals. :)

I have to side with tech on this one. Sure, when we're spending thousands of dollars on displays (we can only guess how much plazman and cpcat have invested thus far with multiple large displays in their homes :D) we have a right to be somewhat choosy, but you have to look at the big picture (pardon the pun).

I didn't like the idea of spending as much money on my XR5 as I did with SD quality being poor as it is (the signal itself, not how the XR5 deals with that signal), but I sat down and thought about it. I'm not your casual viewer. I work over 80-90 hours a week, sometimes closer to 100-110 during the summers. So I don't watch a whole lot of TV with the free time that I do get. If I'm plopped in front of a display (regardless of which one in the house it is), it is to do one of 4-5 things:

1) Play on the PC/Internet
2) Play a game on one of the consoles (pick one, I've saved 'em all since 1979)
3) Watch my beloved Dolphins choke yet again on the Sunday Ticket
4) Watch a movie
5) On an UBER rare occasion, I might watch OTA HD (CSI or The Unit) or D*TV (usually NFL network or Discovery HD)

My wife and kids are actually the main "users" of this display. I don't like the idea of my wife fiddling with stuff when I'm not home (I love getting the calls at work "Honey, I pressed a button and it's buzzing and nothing is working"), but that is the price I must pay if I want to be able to watch what I want on the XR5 when I am home. To me, it's a perfectly legit trade-off.

And as far as the SD goes....Yeah, SD stinks. But that is because it stinks, not because the XR5 is poor in dealing with it. I will admit that while I am impressed at how well the XR5 does with some SD content (not all channels are created equal, let me tell ya), there have been times where I've been unimpressed, but not enough to be pissed and consider returning or selling the set.

I consider myself a budding A/V connaisseur, but admit that there is a lot I still don't know. If people are going to be that nit-picky, then they need to either invest in a DVDO scaling product or watch everything on a 19" CRT TV from Wal-Mart, where there can be no distortion because the screen is too small.

Pardon for the rant, I'm not trying to whiz in anyone's cheerios, it just tans my toast a bit to hear people complain that their 50" plasma isn't up to snuff. I'm not taking anything away from anyone, but I believe we should focus on the things we do have, and not what we don't. An all HDTV world is coming soon folks, we're just dealing with some of the bumps and bruises of being near the bleeding edge. We can choose to step away, or deal with the unpleasantries.

Pass the band-aids please. :D :cool:

Okay, my turn at dumb question of the day...

Just got back from Radioshack. Finalizing all the cable connections to the XR5 so I can finally put the AV rack back where it will permanently reside (until I get another new toy to put in there :D). I bought a Monster DVI to HDMI converter to use with my DirecTV STB, since I can either use component or DVI (yes, it's HDCP compliant).

I hooked the converter piece to the DVI cable (also monster - leftover from my old Sony 50" LCD RP TV days) and plugged the DVI end into the STB and the HDMI into the HDTV port 4 (the 2nd HDMI port on the XR5).

I've tried switching back and forth multiple times on the TVs remote, but get no signal. Is this an issue because I'm using a DVI-HDMI converter? I could have bought another component cable while there, but I figured that the DVI-HDMI would give me a better picture.

Any ideas?

Okay, my turn at dumb question of the day...

Just got back from Radioshack. Finalizing all the cable connections to the XR5 so I can finally put the AV rack back where it will permanently reside (until I get another new toy to put in there :D). I bought a Monster DVI to HDMI converter to use with my DirecTV STB, since I can either use component or DVI (yes, it's HDCP compliant).

I hooked the converter piece to the DVI cable (also monster - leftover from my old Sony 50" LCD RP TV days) and plugged the DVI end into the STB and the HDMI into the HDTV port 4 (the 2nd HDMI port on the XR5).

I've tried switching back and forth multiple times on the TVs remote, but get no signal. Is this an issue because I'm using a DVI-HDMI converter? I could have bought another component cable while there, but I figured that the DVI-HDMI would give me a better picture.

Any ideas?

What STB are you using? Some have a switch on the back that has to be switched to DVI. (like my Sony HD200) I think some models have a button on the front.

Mike

Samsung SIRTS360 DirecTV STB..

Now that you mention it, lemme go check that...Zoinks!

*Edit - no that isn't it. :(

What STB are you using? Some have a switch on the back that has to be switched to DVI. (like my Sony HD200) I think some models have a button on the front.

Mike

Anyone have an opinion on how HD DVD will might look on the NEC vs. the Panny? (plazman) Has anyone seen it on either yet?

Anyone have an opinion on how HD DVD will might look on the NEC vs. the Panny? (plazman) Has anyone seen it on either yet?

I haven't seen it on either, but I did see it on a Westy, and it looked quite tasty, so I'd be willing to bet that either the NEC or the Panny might make it look doubly sweet. :cool:

Oh Man!! I was just ready to pull the trigger on XR5A, but just saw the news about new Pio model(pdp-507hx). Hmmm, now I'm facing dilemma about whether to wait another 4 months for not having a buyer's remorse.

Oh Man!! I was just ready to pull the trigger on XR5A, but just saw the news about new Pio model(pdp-507hx). Hmmm, now I'm facing dilemma about whether to wait another 4 months for not having a buyer's remorse.


Link please... ? :D

shane

Just got back from Radioshack. Finalizing all the cable connections to the XR5 so I can finally put the AV rack back where it will permanently reside (until I get another new toy to put in there :D). I bought a Monster DVI to HDMI converter to use with my DirecTV STB, since I can either use component or DVI (yes, it's HDCP compliant).

I hooked the converter piece to the DVI cable (also monster - leftover from my old Sony 50" LCD RP TV days) and plugged the DVI end into the STB and the HDMI into the HDTV port 4 (the 2nd HDMI port on the XR5).

I've tried switching back and forth multiple times on the TVs remote, but get no signal. Is this an issue because I'm using a DVI-HDMI converter? I could have bought another component cable while there, but I figured that the DVI-HDMI would give me a better picture.


Was this what you bought?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2123233&cp=&origkw=dvi+hdmi&kw=dvi+hdmi&parentPage=search

How long is your DVI cable? Do you have a way to test it?

Assuming it's a cable problem, your best bet would be to get a new DVI to HDMI cable. For a 10 foot cable you shouldn't spend more than $25, i.e. don't buy a monster cable.

EDIT: I think I got the wrong product from the Shack, but it probably looks similar.

This thread has a link to the Japanese page, which can be transalated using google.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668791

Link please... ? :D

shane

Go ahead and question. It's a free world (Even in "Zion" your listed location) I think. ;) SD PQ most likely wasn't a real huge issue to most people buying an "HD" plasma for several thousand dollars. If a consumer was that concerned with quality SD PQ then he or she does not need to step into the world of high end displays. The XR5 does very good with SD considering it's(SD) such poor quality to begin with. I however watch very little SD programming, so the XR5 is perfect for the consumer who watches primarily high quality signals. :)
----------

Tech I think you validate what I have been saying.

1. The NEC has excellent PQ
2. The NEC strengths (IMHO) is in HD content due to the color, brightness, contrast and blacks
3. The NEC is probably not the best set (JMHO) if you are going to view SD and DVD - basically 480p/480i content. The best set for these are probably an ED plasma, but at 50 inches, the Pannys (IMHO) tend to perform the best (excluding the much more expensive Fujitsus).

Does this mean that the NEC is terrible or unacceptable for 480 content and the Panny likewise unacceptable for HD content, absolutely not! Ideally, you should be able to check out both sets via A-B comparison and see what works for you. Without this, there is no way for you to know which set has a better PQ. However, A-B comparisons may not be that important to you, or you may be one of the lucky people who actually has had the opportunity to see the NEC before purchasing.

BTW: The success of the NEC consumer line is a testament to the awesome brand reputation that NEC as a company has and their history of putting out high quality products, that many (including me) would assume that it were the 'best' set at it's price without any comparison. In fact the only reviews I used were those from this forum - that's it. There were no (as in zero) reviews that I could find on the set from any publication from anyone outside of this forum. That's interesting. At least for the Panny I was able to read cnet, consumer reports and others....

I find the marketing of the NEC an interesting case study. It is certainly different from most other consumer products aimed at a mainstream market that I am aware of. I am not doubting the quality of the product, I own one after all :p

Could NEC have the same success as Panasonic or Pioneer had they adopted a Panny-style mass market approach? would anyone on this forum doubt that they would? Would it help people to be able to compare before they shop? absolutely!

I picked up my toshiba hddvd from tweeter, played with it a little last night. First let me say That my player before was a lg 511 connected via hdmi set at
480i, of all resolution this gave me the best pq. I was never really happy with the picture from the xr5 with the lg, the tv really shines when watching hd tv specifically inhd and discovery channels ( I have a motorola box via hdmi, I had a comcast tech come over the house to get reed of splits and replaced the main run outside, the picture improved by 30%). I thought I would never match the tvhd quality when watching dvd's. I started with a non hd dvd 5th element,
set the player at 480p and immediately saw an improvement over the lg, tried 720p and 1080i but stuck with 480. Then I tried serenity a hddvd I rented from netflix, I hate buying movies :) like I said I thought it will never be like the hd on tv, I was pleasantly surprised. The player at 1080i with blacks on via hdmi, the tv with tony's settings, nr off and theatre mode off seemed to give me a little more pop.
Anyway I"ll play a little more with the setting this weekend but so far so good, the pq was very very close to the hd channels and the difference between the normal dvd and the hd dvd is very evident, not as much as sd channels versus hd, but clearly 2 notches up :cool:

I think this question could be answered better by someone with both panels in the same environment (hint, hint cpcat!) ;)



Well, I responded the way I did because Baracca said he would use his panel only for SD sources. He should reconsider that IMO BTW. As far as the question of SD performance between my XR5 and 50U, I'd definitely give the edge to the XR5. I think the XR5 scaler is better at providing an "HD-looking image" with SD. Also, it's a definite advantage for the XR5 to be able to stretch HD 4:3 images. You were correct in saying that in my experience the NEC scaler is better for both SD and HD than both the 50U and the Lumagen VisionHDP/NEC combo.

For DVD's only, I'd give the 50U the edge. I have a fairly basic DVD player in the LG 3510a though and it might be different with something like the Oppo. I fully expect the gap will disintegrate or even swing in the XR5's favor with HD DVD/BD.

The point here which we might miss is that the processing for the commercial pannys is likely different than the consumer models. Plazman's 7UY may well do a better job with SD than my 50U. The quality of the 60U processing (including the all important 720p issue) is still somewhat of a mystery. The 60U will still suffer from all the other drawbacks of the 50U (lack of adjustability, no NR support, not to mention it's a little ugly and cheap looking) and I personally wouldn't consider a 60U.

I'll hopefully be deciding between the NEC 60XR5 (or whatever they call it) and the Panny 65 9UK in a few years. I think the use of the Pio color filter will close any gap in black level performance (if there is one) or possibly allow for even better blacks on the NEC.

Was this what you bought?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2123233&cp=&origkw=dvi+hdmi&kw=dvi+hdmi&parentPage=search

How long is your DVI cable? Do you have a way to test it?

Assuming it's a cable problem, your best bet would be to get a new DVI to HDMI cable. For a 10 foot cable you shouldn't spend more than $25, i.e. don't buy a monster cable.

EDIT: I think I got the wrong product from the Shack, but it probably looks similar.

That's exactly it. It's a 10ft Monster DVI cable. Heck with it, I bought another component cable for like $15 and returned the adapter. I'll be switching over to the MPEG 4 stuff later this year when DirecTV moves over to the new dishes, ect, so I'll make everything HDMI then.

Thanks for the assist though.

What pisses me off is that I may have a dead DVI cable that I paid over $100 for about 2 years ago...DOH! :D

I picked up my toshiba hddvd from tweeter, played with it a little last night. First let me say That my player before was a lg 511 connected via hdmi set at
480i, of all resolution this gave me the best pq. I was never really happy with the picture from the xr5 with the lg, the tv really shines when watching hd tv specifically inhd and discovery channels ( I have a motorola box via hdmi, I had a comcast tech come over the house to get reed of splits and replaced the main run outside, the picture improved by 30%). I thought I would never match the tvhd quality when watching dvd's. I started with a non hd dvd 5th element,
set the player at 480p and immediately saw an improvement over the lg, tried 720p and 1080i but stuck with 480. Then I tried serenity a hddvd I rented from netflix, I hate buying movies :) like I said I thought it will never be like the hd on tv, I was pleasantly surprised. The player at 1080i with blacks on via hdmi, the tv with tony's settings, nr off and theatre mode off seemed to give me a little more pop.
Anyway I"ll play a little more with the setting this weekend but so far so good, the pq was very very close to the hd channels and the difference between the normal dvd and the hd dvd is very evident, not as much as sd channels versus hd, but clearly 2 notches up :cool:
Now matbe CPCat can verify this......you may want to go with component cables due to the fact that is were the NEC XR5 scales the 1080P...That HD DVD Player outputs at 1980 X 1280 right........

Now matbe CPCat can verify this......you may want to go with component cables due to the fact that is were the NEC XR5 scales the 1080P...That HD DVD Player outputs at 1980 X 1280 right........

HD DVD is only providing 1080i at this point, supposedly through both HDMI and component. Upscaling of SD DVD will only be allowed over HDMI.

1080i, 1080p24 and 1080p60 will be available on the upcoming Sony BD this fall. As far as I've heard, only 1080i will be available via component, so only those of us with the commercial NEC's will be able to try out the 1080p60.

It's interesting, though. For all practical purposes, 480i from DVD is analogous to 1080i from HD-DVD/BD. 480p60 from DVD is analogous to 1080p60 from BD.

Yet, everyone wants 480i over HDMI from DVD and 1080p60 over HDMI from BD. :)

The player at 1080i with blacks on via hdmi, the tv with tony's settings, nr off and theatre mode off seemed to give me a little more pop.
:

I'm not disputing what your eyes see, but theoretically with a 1080i film source leaving Cinema mode "on" shouldl activate 1080i inverse telecine to recreate the original 1080p24 frames. Subsequent frame duplication to 1080p60 by the NEC followed by scaling to 768p should render the most accurate image.

With Cinema mode on, if a film source 3:2 sequence is not detected, the set should default to video mode anyway.

cpcat, plazman:

Thanks for sharing your conclusions! :)

The main reason I´ve been searching for a 50" inches is because I would be sitting about 16.5 feet from the plasma. I had the oportunity in the past to place one 42" and I can tell you that it looked like I was needing the extra inches ..... :D

As I said before, today my viewing habits are 50% SD & 50% DVDs... but in the near future it would be 50% SD & 50% BD or HD DVD.... :eek:

Perhaps many of you are thinking why I get such a high tech device and not feed it with the a proper HD signal.... well, I live in South America and here we don´t have even the idea about the release date of the first HD channel .... :(

I´m thinking about a purchase that will last not less than 2-3 years.... so here I get again stuck and think about Boss10l words...., "An all HDTV world is coming soon folks, we're just dealing with some of the bumps and bruises of being near the bleeding edge. We can choose to step away, or deal with the unpleasantries" :o

Perhaps many of you are thinking why I get such a high tech device and not feed it with the a proper HD signal.... well, I live in South America and here we don´t have even the idea about the release date of the first HD channel .... :(

I´m thinking about a purchase that will last not less than 2-3 years.... so here I get again stuck and think about Boss10l words...., "An all HDTV world is coming soon folks, we're just dealing with some of the bumps and bruises of being near the bleeding edge. We can choose to step away, or deal with the unpleasantries" :o

My sincerest apologies, Barraca. I know that we have quite a global climate here at AVS, and like a typical pig-headed US American, I only thought of "us" when I made that bleeding edge statement.

Again though, it does help prove my point. We have many more programs in HD here in the USA than another whole entire continent. Focus on the positives, not the negatives. Tell you what Barraca. Open invitation for Superbowl Sunday next year at my place. PM me and I'll give you directions. :cool:

XR5 + Xbox 360 = :eek:

[Crush from Nemo] First I was like Woah! Then I was WOAH! Then woah....[/Crush from Nemo] :D

Madden '06
Elder Scrolls: Oblivion
Tomb Raider: Legend

Nice.... :cool:

I did see my first real bit of IR. Only for a few minutes, but it still made my heart jump a beat for a few seconds. :D

It'll be great once I can get the PC hooked up with 1:1 mapping.

As I said before, today my viewing habits are 50% SD & 50% DVDs... but in the near future it would be 50% SD & 50% BD or HD DVD.... :eek:

Perhaps many of you are thinking why I get such a high tech device and not feed it with the a proper HD signal.... well, I live in South America and here we don´t have even the idea about the release date of the first HD channel .... :(


No access to any form of HD satellite service? Sorry to hear that. Like you say, HD-DVD is here and BD is around the corner so it won't be long.

XR5 + Xbox 360 = :eek:

[Crush from Nemo] First I was like Woah! Then I was WOAH! Then woah....[/Crush from Nemo] :D

Madden '06
Elder Scrolls: Oblivion
Tomb Raider: Legend

Nice.... :cool:

I did see my first real bit of IR. Only for a few minutes, but it still made my heart jump a beat for a few seconds. :D

It'll be great once I can get the PC hooked up with 1:1 mapping.

Welcome to the club. :)

Right now I would say my NEC has had equal time DVD/HD/Xbox360. I've noticed some IR from a couple of the setup menus, but it's gone as soon as game play starts.

I thought racing games were good on my old 40" set. Up close and personal to the 61" is a whole different feeling.

Pioneer will be releasing new Consumer plasmas this summer and they are dropping the 43" for the 42". This confirms that Pioneer will be using the former NEC plants to produce their 42" panels and this also explains why the 42XR4 has some of the Pioneer panel enhancements.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668791&page=1&pp=30

It looks like all of the next generation NEC Plasmas will be based on pioneer panels with NEC electronics, similar to how the NEC 42" is now.

It looks like all of the next generation NEC Plasmas will be based on pioneer panels with NEC electronics, similar to how the NEC 42" is now.

The 42 inch panel is made by NEC AFAIK, so you should really say "It looks like Pio will use NEC's panel with their electronics for their 42 inch display". I'm not sure how much the distinction matters at this point, though.

If Chris is correct in that NEC will offer a 60 inch panel this summer, that would indicate an entirely new panel. Up to now, Pio has used the NEC 61 inch panel. I think Samsung and LG make a 60 inch panel, but I doubt Pio/NEC would use another manufacturer's panel.

In addition, I'd speculate that Pio will be using NEC's 50 inch panel and adding their color filter just like was done with the 42 inch NEC. This would make some sense as there would be no reason for Pio to make a 50 inch 1080p panel, a 768p 50 inch panel, and for NEC to continue to make their 50 inch 768p panel.

The 42 inch panel is made by NEC AFAIK, so you should really say "It looks like Pio will use NEC's panel with their electronics for their 42 inch display". I'm not sure how much the distinction matters at this point, though.

NEC no longer manufactures Plasma panels since they sold their plants to Pioneer. NEC is still able to secure panels from Pioneer, including the 50" that was based on NEC technology. The NEC 50" was a stop gap until Pioneer could switch all of the NEC plants over to the new technologies.

The NEC 50" was a stop gap until Pioneer could switch all of the NEC plants over to the new technologies.


Sorry, but what does that mean? :confused:

shane

Sorry, but what does that mean? :confused:

shane

The panel used for the 50XM/XR5 is the same panel that was used in the previous generation 50XM/XR4. Just some additional features were added. The 50" NEC will get the new panel that is currently found in the Pioneers and the 42" NEC when the 50XM/XM6 is released at the end of this year. Pioneer just didn't have enough time to upgrade all of the former NEC lines to the latest panels before NEC released their Plasmas at the end of last year.

The panel used for the 50XM/XR5 is the same panel that was used in the previous generation 50XM/XR4. Just some additional features were added. The 50" NEC will get the new panel that is currently found in the Pioneers and the 42" NEC when the 50XM/XM6 is released at the end of this year. Pioneer just didn't have enough time to upgrade all of the former NEC lines to the latest panels before NEC released their Plasmas at the end of last year.

Confused no mo. Thanks. :)

After much research and excellent feedback from this site I have finally acquired a 42XR4! Wow the PQ is great!

Thanks to cpcat for the link to the service menu link.

I was holding out for a panny phd8 but then saw the NEC SD picture quality in a store and was blown away. I live in South Africa where high def is still a few years away so having a decent SD PQ was essential.

The NEC standard def panel PQ is better than the pwd8 panny. I find the panny picture suffers from the screen door effect.

Picture sharpness is everything to me and the NEC is great with this. Colour saturation and percieved depth are similiarly excellent.

I am still messing about with settings. Contrast and brightness are down for the break in period. I however can't see myself pushing these settings up much if at all after the run in period.

I have made the following interesting observation. To test PQ I have connected my SD set top box to the XR4 via composite, s-video and I have sent s-video into my Yamaha DSPAX757SE amplifier to be upconverted to component and then outputted to the XR4. The highest signal quality my set top box can output is s-video. (You are probably all saying shame!)

There is a slight almost imperceptible improvement of PQ from composite to s-video but the PQ dramatically increases from s-video to component. The satellite signal can look better than a medium quality dvd at times!

This does not make sense as a conversion from s-video to component cannot recover lost signal quality? Or am I wrong? Considering the excellent scaler in the XR4 I would have thought that it would do a better job. Maybe it is just that my Yamaha "works" well with the XR4.

If anyone can shed some light on this anomaly it will be much appreciated.

I am extremely happy with the XR4. The comprehensive list of settings that can be made allow me to set the picture to exactly how I like it.

No IR, No fan noise, No problem!

Congrats gcp, glad to hear you love your NEC as much as we do ours! I too have a few components (old game consoles) via RGB going through my Yamaha HTR-5930 receiver via Component to my XR5, and I must say that I am quite impressed. Whether it is the 5930's doing, the XR5's doing, or the two of them just working together very well in concert with each other I cannot truly say, but I am awwed none-the-less.

I agree on the settings. I put my XR5 to CPCAT's settings during the 100 hour break in period where I did nothing but run the break in DVD continuously, but the picture looks so sweet to me as is, I really can't see messing with it much. Maybe a fine tweak here or there if I ever do pony up the cash to have it professionally calibrated.

Thanks to everyone again in this thread and on the entire AVS site. The support has been great the past 2 years, and I learn something new each and every day. :cool:

Hi,

Thanks to this thread because I am now a very happy owner of the NECXR5.

My old Sony DVD player is dieing and I would be thankful if you could help me select a good DVD player for the NECXR5. I am looking at $100 to $150 price range.

1. Has anyone used the Sony DVP-NS75H with the NECXR5? Is it any good?
2. Most low-end upscale DVD players have HDMI output. Should I use its component or HDMI output for the NECXR5?
3. What other DVD players are good with the NECXR5?

Thanks.

Hi,

Thanks to this thread because I am now a very happy owner of the NECXR5.

My old Sony DVD player is dieing and I would be thankful if you could help me select a good DVD player for the NECXR5. I am looking at $100 to $150 price range.

1. Has anyone used the Sony DVP-NS75H with the NECXR5? Is it any good?
2. Most low-end upscale DVD players have HDMI output. Should I use its component or HDMI output for the NECXR5?
3. What other DVD players are good with the NECXR5?

Thanks.
----------------

I really like the Oppo via HDMI upconverted at 720p. Others prefer the Oppo at 420p. I would use HDMI since it keeps the signal in the digital realm throughout the process. The Oppo isn't the best over component.

The Oppo is around $200.00. But I saw a significant improvement with it. The fact that it also plays DivX is a plus for me.

In the price range you mention the Pioneer 588A-S can be an excellent set as well. I haven't used it with my NEC (only the Panny via component) but no reason why it won't pair well. The PQ is very smooth and an excellent price-for-value (not as good a deal as the Oppo, but the best at this price range)...The 588A-S plays almost anything you throw at it :D

MY audio gear just showed up, Adcom. Wow, is all I can say. So I am redoing my set up and I will be looking too. Probably going to go with the Toshiba HD-A1 that just came out !

www.adcom.com

After much research and excellent feedback from this site I have finally acquired a 42XR4! Wow the PQ is great!

Thanks to cpcat for the link to the service menu link.

I was holding out for a panny phd8 but then saw the NEC SD picture quality in a store and was blown away. I live in South Africa where high def is still a few years away so having a decent SD PQ was essential.

The NEC standard def panel PQ is better than the pwd8 panny. I find the panny picture suffers from the screen door effect.

Picture sharpness is everything to me and the NEC is great with this. Colour saturation and percieved depth are similiarly excellent.

I am still messing about with settings. Contrast and brightness are down for the break in period. I however can't see myself pushing these settings up much if at all after the run in period.

I have made the following interesting observation. To test PQ I have connected my SD set top box to the XR4 via composite, s-video and I have sent s-video into my Yamaha DSPAX757SE amplifier to be upconverted to component and then outputted to the XR4. The highest signal quality my set top box can output is s-video. (You are probably all saying shame!)

There is a slight almost imperceptible improvement of PQ from composite to s-video but the PQ dramatically increases from s-video to component. The satellite signal can look better than a medium quality dvd at times!

This does not make sense as a conversion from s-video to component cannot recover lost signal quality? Or am I wrong? Considering the excellent scaler in the XR4 I would have thought that it would do a better job. Maybe it is just that my Yamaha "works" well with the XR4.

If anyone can shed some light on this anomaly it will be much appreciated.

I am extremely happy with the XR4. The comprehensive list of settings that can be made allow me to set the picture to exactly how I like it.

No IR, No fan noise, No problem!
-------------------

Wondering if the screen door effect is more prevalent on an ED plasma v. an HD one (since the Panny you mention is ED and not HD) as there are almost 50% more pixels on an HD screen....

I guess the display does a better job of scaling a better signal! My experience has been that my XR5 does a better job with scaling 720p to it's native res than 480p and a better job with 480p than 480i, at least for DVDs (i.e. signal being processed in the Oppo upconverting DVD player). For SD I have no way of gauging what happens, but cpcat has observed that the NEC does a better job with scaling 480i SD signal than his Lumagen video processor!

Now I don't know how great Lumagen is, but one of the ISF calibrators I spoke to (the phase when I was convinced I had to have my NEC professionally calibrated) recommended I get a Lumagen video processor and I promptly told him that from this forum I believed that the NEC would not need an external scaler :D

Last point, I 've said before my experience has been not to use the S-Video when possible, I use it as a back-up for viewing SD content in an HD channel. Thankfully you don't have to put up with that (yet) :rolleyes:

Thanks Boss10L for the invitation!

Thinking about the near future of BD or HD DVD, I might be purchasing the XR5 after all. I prefer to have the best possible HD image available! :D

NEC no longer manufactures Plasma panels since they sold their plants to Pioneer. NEC is still able to secure panels from Pioneer, including the 50" that was based on NEC technology. The NEC 50" was a stop gap until Pioneer could switch all of the NEC plants over to the new technologies.

Just because Pio purchased NEC doesn't mean NEC will stop production of panels. NEC will maintain it's identity at least in the short term and I guess it's semantics to some extent but if the NEC production lines are still in use I'd consider it a NEC panel. I don't think it would make sense to dismantle the current NEC production lines and it's likely that both limbs will continue production jointly. Pio has used the 61 inch NEC panel for their 61 inch model. The fact that Pio is switching to 42 instead of 43 next year would suggest to me they are probably using the NEC 42 inch panel production line for their new models.

The current 50 inch panel is NEC made and was not obtained from Pioneer. I think you can speculate which production line will make next year's Pio/NEC 50 inch 768p panel but it would make sense to me for the 768p to come off the NEC production line while the 1080p 50 inch panel comes from Pio's.

The new 60 inch NEC, if that is the correct size according to Chris, is a mystery.

Just because Pio purchased NEC doesn't mean NEC will stop production of panels. NEC will maintain it's identity at least in the short term. I don't think it would make sense to dismantle the current NEC production lines. I think it's likely that both limbs will continue production jointly. Pio has used the 61 inch NEC panel for their 61 inch model. The fact that Pio is switching to 42 instead of 43 next year would suggest to me they are probably using the NEC 42 inch panel production line for their new models.

The current 50 inch panel is NEC made and was not obtained from Pioneer. I think you can speculate which production line will make next year's Pio/NEC 50 inch 768p panel but it would make sense to me for the 768p to come off the NEC production line while the 1080p 50 inch panel comes from Pio's.

The new 60 inch NEC, if that is the correct size according to Chris, is a mystery.

The key is that NEC no longer manufactures panels even if panels are produced on the former NEC lines. Pioneer owns the lines now and they OEM the panels to NEC. When NEC sold the lines they probably had an agreement that ensures they will have a supply of panels coming from Pioneer.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KZC/is_2004_Feb_12/ai_n15754483

"It does not, however, mean that NEC is pulling out of the market. It will continue to sell NEC-branded plasma displays, supplied by Pioneer on an OEM basis."

So does that mean all electronics. scaling, processing would still be provided by NEC if sold under the NEC brand name??? Mike

So does that mean all electronics. scaling, processing would still be provided by NEC if sold under the NEC brand name??? Mike

Yes. :)

hoodlum is correct. NEC no longer makes plasma glass. The plant belongs to Pioneer now so NEC is using OEM Pioneer panels in their plasmas.

The key is that NEC no longer manufactures panels even if panels are produced on the former NEC lines. Pioneer owns the lines now and they OEM the panels to NEC. When NEC sold the lines they probably had an agreement that ensures they will have a supply of panels coming from Pioneer.

Just like I said, semantics. I don't claim to know what Pioneer's plans are. Maybe you have inside info? Disney owns ESPN but MNF will still be an ESPN production this year and the players will not be required to wear mouse's ears. :)

hoodlum is correct. NEC no longer makes plasma glass. The plant belongs to Pioneer now so NEC is using OEM Pioneer panels in their plasmas.

Can you provide a source for that? I'm not disputing the NEC purchase by Pioneer, I just would like to know where you came by the manufacturing specifics.

Also, to what models are you referring when you say NEC is using OEM Pio panels in their plasmas? If you are referring to the current models, I think you're incorrect. In fact, I've heard the upcoming Pio 42 inch panel is actually an NEC panel. Also, I assume you are excluding the 61 inch Pio which is an NEC panel?

Just like I said, semantics. I don't claim to know what Pioneer's plans are. Maybe you have inside info? Disney owns ESPN but MNF will still be an ESPN production this year and the players will not be required to wear mouse's ears. :)

They better not. I love the NFL just as much as any other crazed football junkie, but I draw the line at mouse ears. :D

I am almost ready for install after three weeks of prep time. I am a little obsessive compulsive and decided to replace most my entire home theater setup this week. I found a pretty decent deal on some Polk audio speakers at the local audio/visual store and now here they sit before me waiting to get some action. I decided to try out the following speaker arrangement: Polk Monitor 60's as fronts, Polk Monitor 40's as rears, and a Polk CSI 5 center channel. I figured that would work out pretty good considering the speakers will be driven by 120 watts per channel from my Denon 4800 AVR. I also will be using a B&W 650 as my Subwoofer. I am very excited to get this system rolling. I am kind of a audiophile/videophile in the making. I have several sets of tower speakers I have auditioned and replaced. I am having trouble finding storage, but I can't part with some of the speakers I love. These speakers paired with the XR5 should give goosebumps! I can hardly wait! I want to make sure this install is done right, so I might not complete it until next week! I have some pictures here of my new gear. Notice how the design of the Polk speakers is almost like it was designed for the XR5. The metallic edge surrounding the speaker just like the design of the XR5. :p Man this is going to be great!

Can you provide a source for that? I'm not disputing the NEC purchase by Pioneer, I just would like to know where you came by the manufacturing specifics.

Also, to what models are you referring when you say NEC is using OEM Pio panels in their plasmas? If you are referring to the current models, I think you're incorrect. In fact, I've heard the upcoming Pio 42 inch panel is actually an NEC panel.

cpcat, there is no longer such an animal as a NEC panel, it is a pioneer panel. Take a look at the new 7th Gen 50" Pioneer coming out this summer and you will notice that the resolution is 1365, which means these panels will be coming from the former NEC lines. At the same time the technology used with the 7th Gen Pioneer plasmas is the same as is found on the 6th gen Pioneer and 42XR4 plasmas. This means that Pioneer will now be using the former NEC line to produce Pioneer panels with Pioneer technology. Don't be suprised to see the 61" to follow suit later this year. Pioneer needs to do this in order get economies of scale. NEC has little say as long as Pioneer continues to supply them with panels. NEC will still use their own electronics.

If one can compare the 42" elite to the 42xr4 they might get a idea what the 50xr6 will be like after the new generation pioneer user reviews start coming in June, as I'd guess NEC would be using that panel glass.

Mike

cpcat, there is no longer such an animal as a NEC panel, it is a pioneer panel. Take a look at the new 7th Gen 50" Pioneer coming out this summer and you will notice that the resolution is 1365, which means these panels will be coming from the former NEC lines. .

Gotcha. I just didn't realize that Pio planned to brand the panels on the NEC lines as Pio. I saw where it does indicate that in the article you provided. I read that same article before but not close enough I guess.

Gotcha. I just didn't realize that Pio planned to brand the panels on the NEC lines as Pio. I saw where it does indicate that in the article you provided. I read that same article before but not close enough I guess.

You're starting to understand, but you have to let go of the "NEC lines" quote. NEC does not own a plasma plant anymore....so they no longer have "NEC lines" ;)

If one can compare the 42" elite to the 42xr4 they might get a idea what the 50xr6 will be like after the new generation pioneer user reviews start coming in June, as I'd guess NEC would be using that panel glass.

Mike

And you would be correct. The only differences will be in the electronics.....like Fujistu and Panasonic plasmas.

Can you provide a source for that? I'm not disputing the NEC purchase by Pioneer, I just would like to know where you came by the manufacturing specifics.

hoodlum gave you a source.


Also, to what models are you referring when you say NEC is using OEM Pio panels in their plasmas? If you are referring to the current models, I think you're incorrect. In fact, I've heard the upcoming Pio 42 inch panel is actually an NEC panel. Also, I assume you are excluding the 61 inch Pio which is an NEC panel?

The current line and all future NEC branded plasmas are OEM Pioneer panels. Remember, Pioneer took control of the former NEC plant in 2004....which "offically" made everything that was produced there Pioneer products.

Gotcha. I just didn't realize that Pio planned to brand the panels on the NEC lines as Pio. I saw where it does indicate that in the article you provided. I read that same article before but not close enough I guess.

Here's some more information on the actual acquisition, the reasons for it and the impact it will have.

http://www.pioneer.co.jp/corp/ir/pdf/press/reform/NR041001_NPD_Acquisition.pdf

http://www.nec.co.jp/press/en/0402/0302.html

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_29-3-2005_pg5_23

And, for those who want ALL the details on the industry forecast for 2006, it will cost you $$$$, but it's available at:

http://www.mindbranch.com/catalog/print_product_page.jsp?code=R147-21

I bet NEC is realising they made a mistake to some degree. Depending on what they signed, they could always build another facility........

Chris... why would you think that NEC considers it a mistake?

shane

You're starting to understand, but you have to let go of the "NEC lines" quote. NEC does not own a plasma plant anymore....so they no longer have "NEC lines" ;)

What, are you trying to beat me up now? I think I'll just go ahead and refer to the prior "NEC lines" if I choose, thank you. Wouldn't you like to know from which line your plasma comes from if you were buying?

Here's some more information on the actual acquisition, the reasons for it and the impact it will have.



Thanks.

What, are you trying to beat me up now? I think I'll just go ahead and refer to the prior "NEC lines" if I choose, thank you. Wouldn't you like to know from which line your plasma comes from if you were buying?

I agree cpcat. Its like when Ford acquired Volvo. If I'm gonna buy a XC90, I will consider it coming from the Volvo line. Just because it is ultimately owned by Ford, doesn't mean it can be generalized that simply. It is much more complicated than just saying they are all "Pioneer" lines now. Either way, it's a great situation for the end user, as NEC and Pioneer are two of the best plasma manufacturers out there, and putting their intellectual property together will yield and awesome plasma. I can't wait for them to show up!

Adding fuel to the NEC vs Pioneer debate, if you compare the manuals for the Pioneer Elite 61" and the NEC 61XR4 you will find that they are virtual clones of each other. Right down to the fonts and pictures and the menu hierarchy. Some of the labels for settings have changed, but the menu organization is the same.

The pixel resolution is the same and other than some differences in inputs they are, from comparing the manuals, essentially the same beast.

Chris... why would you think that NEC considers it a mistake?


They did not think they were going to sell as many panels as they have this model year, there projection was way low.

You're starting to understand, but you have to let go of the "NEC lines" quote. NEC does not own a plasma plant anymore....so they no longer have "NEC lines" ;)


You need to realize that Pioneer bought the NEC technology. So the proper way to term this would be Pioneer glass with NEC technology. Pioneer needed a way to make their panels more efficiently to compete.

NEC always supplied the 61" glass to Pioneer. Pioneer isn't going to replace this with a new glass. They are going to keep it as their own and I suspect that is why the 43" panel is being phased out. They realize the 42XR4 glass is superior and are moving in this direction.

They did not think they were going to sell as many panels as they have this model year, there projection was way low.

Pioneer actually shut down 2 of the former NEC lines after they lost the OEM contract to Sony. Maybe they cut back too much.

Chris... why would you think that NEC considers it a mistake?

shane
------------

I had a conversation some time back with a colleague at work who is totally into his AV gear. I was wondering this same thing, why would NEC want to give up their production facilities or Pioneer want to acquire NEC's production facilities?

His explanation went something like this. The most expensive part of a plasma display is the panel itself. Apparently the basic electronics (like the scalers, de-interlacers etc) cost pretty much the same, or the differences in cost have little impact on the overall cost of the unit. Of course R&D costs are different for each producer, but it's a fixed cost and does not factor into the per unit cost.

The assembly is also not a big factor since the production is largely automated.

Supposedly Pioneer had by far the highest cost in the industry for producing panels. Apparently Pioneer had to have a dedicated line for each size of glass they produced and each glass was inidvidually made, whereas NEC and the Panny panels are cut from larger pieces of glass. As a result the assembly line needs to produce only one size which is then cut. According to him, both the NEC and Panny glass currently are almost identical qualitatively. The major differences are the after production coating that is applied to them. So that was his take (as told to me, so this is not my opinion).

My extrapolations based on that :)

So what Matsushita (Pannys) has done is that they have taken their cost advantage in panel production and vastly increased their production capacity, driving down prices.

Now, Panny sells so many more units than Pioneer, not only do they have a lower cost per unit sold (due to lower cost per panel (variable cost), but the R&D and all other fixed costs assigned to each unit is also lower, since they are now spread across a much lager number of units. So, if Panny were to even spend the same $ per unit of R&D, their overall R&D expenditure would be more than twice or thrice that of Pioneer and 'still' they would have a cost advantage due to the lower panel production cost. Panny has a lower variable and fixed cost for each set they put on a shelf (apparently most don't even get that far!)

In essence, unless Pioneer had a way to reduce their cost per panels or pass on the higher cost directly to consumers and thereby have the same revenue as Panny, they would be at a competitive disadvantage. So, the NEC acquisition makes absolute sense for Pioneer.

Since NEC already has the lower cost of producing panels, why would NEC get into such a partnership? For spreading R&D costs could be a reason (cash another). So, I would guess that NEC is probably getting Pioneer technology in return.

Pioneer could have also gone the Fujitsu route and simply got out of the display production business and focused on the electronics. Clearly, one reason for the high price of a Fujitsu (or like brands) is the very steep R&D (and other fixed) cost per unit sold. When you buy a Fujitsu you are paying a premium not just for the best electronics in the industry but also the fact that Fujitsu's fixed cost is allocated amonst a relatively fewer number of sets. Ideally, Fujitsu (their plasma unit) should be a candidate to be acquired by Matshushita (Panny). Would make sense to have the new Onyx line be the Fujitsu! No reason why a Fujitsu owned by Panny would not be priced at or below a current Pio Elite and still turn a profit!

I believe the 50U/500U series were the first time that Panny applied their cost advantage in a big way by driving down prices. The huge sales were then invested in R&D and we're probably going to see further innovations from them in the coming models, while reducing prices further. Matsushita (Panny) right now is driving the consumer plasma market (amongst the Japanese vendors at least) at least in terms of price.

Given that NEC has the cost advantage in panel production cost, we will see all Pioneers and NEC adopt the NEC panels (JMHO). Clearly, it would be in NEC's interest (as well as Pioneers) to leverage each others R&D so that they can combine their competitive advantage. This is clearly a win-win for both companies. Pioneer desperately needs to increase sales and for this they must lower costs - how many times on this forum have we heard, "I liked the Pioneer the best for PQ, but it did not justify the price premium"....the goal will be to reduce costs to Panny levels. NEC already does that but without self space :rolleyes:

Why would NEC consider this a mistake? If they thought they were giving Pioneer a competitive advantage in the industry without getting anything of substance in return. Or if at the time of the deal they thought they were going to exit the plasma market but are now considering a long term play, where they see Pioneer as a competitor.

I am assuming the sale got NEC a bunch of cash, long term access to Pio owned panels. The cash lets them invest in R&D (or create their own plants down the road if they want to, they can always OEM Samsung or LG glass ;) ) and they can sell the panels produced in the 'now' Pioneer owned lines that are allocated to NEC, either back to Pioneer or as finished NEC plasmas. Like I said, it appears win-win :p

Could I be completely wrong. Absolutely! :eek:

(BTW: I'll be glad to advice on any M&A for a very reasonable fee :p )

Pioneer actually shut down 2 of the former NEC lines after they lost the OEM contract to Sony. Maybe they cut back too much.

Seems like Sony is concentrating on SXRD and LCD. I wonder why they haven't tried to become a real player in the plasma market?

I bet NEC is realising they made a mistake to some degree. Depending on what they signed, they could always build another facility........

Chris: With all due respect, that is never going to happen.

Thanks.

My pleasure, Cpcat.....You'd think that I would have something better to do with my time. ;)

You need to realize that Pioneer bought the NEC technology. So the proper way to term this would be Pioneer glass with NEC technology.

For the 50XR5 this would be correct.


NEC always supplied the 61" glass to Pioneer. Pioneer isn't going to replace this with a new glass. They are going to keep it as their own and I suspect that is why the 43" panel is being phased out. They realize the 42XR4 glass is superior and are moving in this direction.

There seems to be some confusion between Pioneer standardizing on certain sizes and the technology they are using to build their panels. The former NEC plants are setup for certain sizes and Pioneer plans on standardizing on the 42", 50" and 61" for all of their Plasmas (including OEM). So this means that Pioneer will be using the former NEC plants for at least the 42" panel since this is what they were sized for. This was announced over a year ago.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_24-3-2005_pg5_15

"Pioneer reiterated plans to focus on high-end plasma displays and to consolidate production of different panel sizes into three exclusive lines — one for 61-inch panels, one for 50-inch panels, and one for 42-inch panels — by 2006/07."

This does not necessarily mean that the former NEC lines will be using NEC technology when building the panels. Judging from the 42XR4 the new Pioneer Panels that will be coming out of the former NEC plants will be significantly based on Pioneer technology. If the 50" continues to be produced at the former NEC plant then it will eventually have the same advancements as the 42XR4. In fact the 50" at the former NEC plant will eventually the match the the 50" at Pioneer plant as this will give them more flexibility. A year from now this will make more sense.

Seems like Sony is concentrating on SXRD and LCD. I wonder why they haven't tried to become a real player in the plasma market?
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part of their recent reorganization and business rationalization move? They picked LCD over Plasma....in the long run, may pay off.

Probably feel BD, HTPC and PS3 are more in line with their LCD investments.

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part of their recent reorganization and business rationalization move? They picked LCD over Plasma....in the long run, may pay off.

Probably feel BD, HTPC and PS3 are more in line with their LCD investments.

Plus, Sony never produced their own glass. They were a bit player in the plasma market, their products were not well received, and they were losing money at it to boot!

Chris: With all due respect, that is never going to happen.
I was not saying they were going to....I said they could. Everyone including companies make mistakes. This may not be a mistake. I was just noting. I am sure there were pros and cons on this deal. Now that 2 years have passed I wonder how NEC feels ????

Plazman,

I have a different take on the NEC sale to Pioneer. First of all NEC is not regretting this sale. NEC is not a big Video Consumer company as most of their products are sold in the industrial/Commercial markets with value adds. NEC came to the conclusion that they needed to expand big time into the consumer Plasma market or become a big time OEM. This was not something they were comfortable committing their resources to so they sold to Pioneer.

Pioneer needed more production and patents to meet demand so they bought NEC's plasma division. But Pioneer completely underestimated how fast they needed to grow and how difficult it would be to integrate the two businesses. They also lost the Sony OEM business but they should have seen this coming. Add to that the price drops over the past 2 years and Pioneer is now in a pickle. They are probably still a year away from totally integrating the 2 businesses and they currently have no plans for new plants. Matsushita is currently producing 5 times the panel production as Pioneer and they plan on doubling this over the next 2 year. I am not sure how Pioneer will survive long term.

I agree with you, in that Pioneer absolutely needs to scale out their production to stay competitive and they cannot do it with their much higher production costs. Samsung and LG focused first on scaling production (with inferior technology) and now are focusing on R&D. Matsushita took somewhat of a middle ground. Looks like Pioneer and Fujitsu went the other way. What I was told (THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL AND NOT VERIFIABLE) is that Matsushita is now the single largest spender in terms of R&D on plasma - sorting of betting on it in a big way (although they seem to be in the LCD and RPT markets as well).

This is compounded with the fact that resources that could have gone into R&D are now going into integration costs.

NEC is in an excellent position really. They always have the option of OEMing their electronics if they choose, or focusing on their commercial plasmas (which sell very well)....

BTW: I have wondered on several occasions including a few pages back on this thread, if NEC was committed to the consumer market and they have (as we all know) an excellent product at competitive prices why would they not make a move know, when the market is still in its early stages....hard to explain.

I am not sure how Pioneer will survive long term.

I have little sympathy for a company that acts like Pioneer. Apple comes to mind also. They will get what they deserve... :eek:

Quick question for the HTPC -> NEC people...

I'm wating to build a new HTPC with a HDMI connection on the video card, so I need to decide how I should connect my current PC to the XR5. Should I use the monitor out on the PC to the monitor in on the XR5, or go with something like this instead:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041901&p_id=2398&seq=1&format=2&style=

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Wondering if the screen door effect is more prevalent on an ED plasma v. an HD one (since the Panny you mention is ED and not HD) as there are almost 50% more pixels on an HD screen....

I guess the display does a better job of scaling a better signal! My experience has been that my XR5 does a better job with scaling 720p to it's native res than 480p and a better job with 480p than 480i, at least for DVDs (i.e. signal being processed in the Oppo upconverting DVD player). For SD I have no way of gauging what happens, but cpcat has observed that the NEC does a better job with scaling 480i SD signal than his Lumagen video processor!

Now I don't know how great Lumagen is, but one of the ISF calibrators I spoke to (the phase when I was convinced I had to have my NEC professionally calibrated) recommended I get a Lumagen video processor and I promptly told him that from this forum I believed that the NEC would not need an external scaler :D

Last point, I 've said before my experience has been not to use the S-Video when possible, I use it as a back-up for viewing SD content in an HD channel. Thankfully you don't have to put up with that (yet) :rolleyes:

Plazman you are correct. The panny is an sd panel that has the screen door effect.

The first NEC i saw was also an sd panel and that sparked my interest in the nec knowing how good the sd panny is rated. I then saw this forum and had a demo of the high def XR4 and the rest is history!

I have seen a lot of talk about Pioneer's purchase of NEC panel production on this forum.

As much as we enjoy NEC sadly they are in the business of making money. If they can sell their crown jewels for more than they worth then well regrettably they will do that or any other business for that matter. Sad really.

Maybe NEC wants the money for some cunning plan to develop SED panels or something! Only time will tell.

Do they still manufacture their own projector's?

has anyone notices a humming noise from the xr5 after its been on for a while?

im trying to get through the breakin period so i have 13HD on for hours on end....

No, never did, and I had mine running for over 110 hours straight, playing a DVD that only showed colored screens, no sound at all.

I have seen a lot of talk about Pioneer's purchase of NEC panel production on this forum.

As much as we enjoy NEC sadly they are in the business of making money. If they can sell their crown jewels for more than they worth then well regrettably they will do that or any other business for that matter. Sad really.

Maybe NEC wants the money for some cunning plan to develop SED panels or something! Only time will tell.



You need to appreciate the fact that NEC sold its plasma division because it too was losing money. I doubt that Pioneer overpaid at the time. But, if Pioneer's gambit doesn't succeed, I guess they'll have thrown more good money after bad, so to speak. That would truly be a shame as the Pioneer/NEC display is, as everyone knows, a stellar product.

As a practical matter, I don't think that any of this will have an impact on current purchasers of Pioneer or NEC displays. Both companies are going to stay in business and address warranty concerns that arise - even if they leave the pdp arena. What I suspect will happen over the next several years is that pdp's will become commodities as prices continue to drop and performance continues to improve. Distinctions between and among brands are likely to become more and more subtle over time until they become almost imperceptible and of little consequence to the vast majority of consumers/users. This will be especially true once SD fades from the scene and scaling becomes less and less critical in evaluating a panel's performance.

This does not necessarily mean that the former NEC lines will be using NEC technology when building the panels. Judging from the 42XR4 the new Pioneer Panels that will be coming out of the former NEC plants will be significantly based on Pioneer technology. If the 50" continues to be produced at the former NEC plant then it will eventually have the same advancements as the 42XR4. In fact the 50" at the former NEC plant will eventually the match the the 50" at Pioneer plant as this will give them more flexibility. A year from now this will make more sense.

I'll continue this speculation a little further. We've not discussed the FHD-1 yet (Pio's 50 inch 1080p glass). I'll bet the 50 inch 768p glass will come off the old NEC/new Pio line and the 1080p glass will be separate. Unfortunately, if Plazman's hypothesis is correct, this will mean the 1080p glass will have much higher costs of production. Not a big surprise considering its expected MSRP of 10K. Seems that will not likely be competitive with the Panny 65 1080p at roughly the same MSRP. :confused: Not sure how many of those panels you'll see.

Quick question for the HTPC -> NEC people...

I'm wating to build a new HTPC with a HDMI connection on the video card, so I need to decide how I should connect my current PC to the XR5. Should I use the monitor out on the PC to the monitor in on the XR5, or go with something like this instead:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041901&p_id=2398&seq=1&format=2&style=

If the monitor out is a standard HD15 (VGA) connector, just use that. The link provided will allow you to connect via the component input, but only if the dongle is directly connected to the VGA port of your ATI card.

BTW, the best resolution for VGA is 1360x768.

What happened to the NEC settings thread? Multiple searches didn't find it.

Tnx,
Ed

It's here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=659424

If the monitor out is a standard HD15 (VGA) connector, just use that. The link provided will allow you to connect via the component input, but only if the dongle is directly connected to the VGA port of your ATI card.

BTW, the best resolution for VGA is 1360x768.


My Radeon 9800Pro card has both HD15 and DVI outs on it. I purchased a DVI & HDMI ended cable from monoprice, as well as a 6ft VGA cable. I'll try both and see how they go. I also ordered a 100ft RJ6 cable, so if I decide to upgrade my PC to Win MC2005 I can stream video. That acually kinda tans my hide that I have to upgrade to stream video. Not that the money needs to be spent, but I just don't want to upgrate to MCE now and then upgrade to Vista again early next year. I'll probably wait anyway regardless.

Thanks for the info. :)

Somewhere back in this thread I think I mentioned I upgraded from a 9700Pro to a 6600GT so that I could get 1:1 mapping via HDMI. I'm using a DVI -> HDMI cable.

While the VGA output from both my 9700Pro and 6600GT were both quite good at 1360x768, there was some ringing, small but noticeable, on edges that isn't there with HDMI connection.

If you're looking for your next upgrade, go for a 6600GT.

Fellas I have been looking for the code to the tv for my new hddvd toshiba the manual as all the tv's except anything nec, can enyone help I checked the nec site but I got lost :o

Code? If you mean model number, I think you said the 50" so, you should have a PX-50XR5A. If you have the 42" it'd be PX-42XR4A.

He means the remote code but I'm not sure how to get it either. I had to program my universal remote keys individually for the XR5.

He means the remote code but I'm not sure how to get it either. I had to program my universal remote keys individually for the XR5.
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I use a Harmony 880 and to get it to learn everything on the NEC remote was relatively painless to me - yes you have to do it manually but should only take 1/2 -1 hour for the whole thing. I use the Harmony remote almost exclusively for viewing purposes. However, still prefer to use the NEC remote when I am using the advanced settings.

If I had to get a universal remote today, I may look at the 890, which is the 880, but uses radio, so would work trough walls. The Harmony handles every single AV device in my home on one remote :D

I have the harmony 880, programmed it with the toshiba all is well except no volume, also to change channels I have the device set to the dvr box not tv.

I also use the Harmony 880. Best remote ever...It took a bit of setting up via the computer to get everything right, but for the most part, it's as smooth as butter.

Back to Pioneer/NEC debate for a sec. Let me see if I have my scorecard correct for the simple man: 1) The XR5 has NEC panel and NEC technology 2) The 1130 has Pioneer panel and Pio tech 3) The FHD-1 will have Pio/NEC new 1080 panel and Pio tech? 4) The XR6, What will it have, Pio/NEC new 768 panel and NEC tech? I'm trying to figure out if I pulled the trigger a couple of months too soon on the XR5.

Fujitsu is finally coming around to making their PDP's in black this June. That's a first step. They still refuse to come down in price and that's going to hurt them in the end. They're refusing to play nice in the sandbox.

Back to Pioneer/NEC debate for a sec. Let me see if I have my scorecard correct for the simple man: 1) The XR5 has NEC panel and NEC technology 2) The 1130 has Pioneer panel and Pio tech 3) The FHD-1 will have Pio/NEC new 1080 panel and Pio tech? 4) The XR6, What will it have, Pio/NEC new 768 panel and NEC tech? I'm trying to figure out if I pulled the trigger a couple of months too soon on the XR5.

Based on what happened with the 42XR4, the 50XR6 will have mostly Pioneer technology.

Back to Pioneer/NEC debate for a sec. Let me see if I have my scorecard correct for the simple man: 1) The XR5 has NEC panel and NEC technology 2) The 1130 has Pioneer panel and Pio tech 3) The FHD-1 will have Pio/NEC new 1080 panel and Pio tech? 4) The XR6, What will it have, Pio/NEC new 768 panel and NEC tech? I'm trying to figure out if I pulled the trigger a couple of months too soon on the XR5.
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To not answer your question directly, there is always something better down the road....

The FHD-1 AFAIK is based on glass coming off the 'old' Pio line along with Pio electronics. The XR6 will be glass coming off the 'old' NEC line with NEC electronics. I would assume that the XR6 will come off the same lines as the current XR5. But the assumption is that the NEC line will be fully integrated to apply some of Pioneers glass innovations such as their bonded filter etc.

I am assuming that the new NEC/Pio panels will look just like the current 5060/Elite panels. The new panels (AFAIK) are supposed to reduce costs for Pioneer rather than to produce better picture (which could be the by product).

I don't see the XR6 significantly improving on the XR5 in terms of overall PQ. For Pioneer the XR6 twin will determine if they are going to continue to be a top player in the plasma market or end up being a Fujitsu-like niche player.

Currently, Panny has a higher margin on a $3,500 (50 inch Pio 50U) than Pioneer on a $ 4,500 (50 inch 5060) set. We all know that Pio is discounting even from that! So when Panny comes out with the 600U, I would say Pio will need to overcome around $1,000-$1,500 from their current cost per unit to stay competitive. So there will be a lot of cost cutting (I presume). You can't reduce costs and improve quality unless you are selling a lot of units, or hope to sell a lot of them. Pio just does not have the production capacity to match Samsung and Panny in terms of volume, so if cutting costs is critical to turn a profit, I am guessing features and/or build quality will have to give way (even Panny did away with the cable card and probably using cheaper plastic in the new 60U)

Based on what I see from the XR5, this is a highly competitively priced product and probably the only consumer unit that I know of that has a better value-price feature than the Panny 60U (even if you account for no speakers and TV tuner JMHO). So, if I were you, I wouldn't be worrying. :D

Based on what happened with the 42XR4, the 50XR6 will have mostly Pioneer technology.

From what I can tell, the only real Pioneer technology on the 42XR4 is the panel's color filter or "crystal clear panel drive". Everything else seems to be NEC-based inluding the panel itself (although the line is now owned by Pio I'll concede. :) )

So if I were answering this question, I'd say most likely the 50XR6 will utilize the contrast improvement due to the color filter from Pio but most likely the processing/electronics will remain NEC.

It's also very possible that the new Pioneer brand 50 inch 768p panel will begin to utilize more NEC based technology.

It shouldn't be hard to tell. If we see a consumer panel that supports native rate and doesn't have the media box it's likely NEC electronics.

It shouldn't be hard to tell. If we see a consumer panel that supports native rate and doesn't have the media box it's likely NEC electronics.
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I would bet that 'will' be the case....

50XR5's are on back order here in Canada; when's the 50XR6s going to show up?

The new models don't come out until December if I remember what Chris said. I had to wait about 6 weeks for my 61XR4.

The new models don't come out until December if I remember what Chris said. I had to wait about 6 weeks for my 61XR4.
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If the new Pioneers are going to come off the old NEC lines I am assuming the XR5will be hard to come by, similar to the Panny 50/500 when then company was retooling for the 60/600 series. Just my conjecture....

The XR5 has been on back order a couple of times in the US as well (towards the end of the infamous Pannys shortage in Jan-Feb of this year). I bet NEC has sold a lot more than they anticipated. The Panny shortage surely helped create a lot of demand (for one that's how I got mine ) and since then it's been word of mouth :D

I know you have tried a lumagen hdp with your display and didn't see much difference in pq, I am thinking of getting a mosquito noise reduction or a dvdo for sd tv and sd dvd, do you think it will help and wich one would serve me better. I am happy with the hd coming from the player and the cable box. The toshiba is a beta product the player is slow, the remote sucks, if you want to get in the setup the player won't resume (thank God for the harmony) :)
and at times the sound disappear I have to shut the tv down get signal from the box and then start the movie again, it only happens at the beginning of a movie, but the pq in sd surprised me I wasn't excepecting much, I use 480p so I can keep the anamorphic display but I have to say that 1080i from the player with sddvd looks better and you were right , the tv reversed back to cinema on in 1080i
Thanks for any suggestion you might have

50XR5's are on back order here in Canada; when's the 50XR6s going to show up?
Not in the US, plenty here.

The new models don't come out until December if I remember what Chris said. I had to wait about 6 weeks for my 61XR4.
Ya know I think they are going to have a mid year release. Ah, who knows, Pioneer is running the show. I know there are like 5 61" NEC left across the US and that is all that is availible till the new line shows up. I know the new model will not be a 61".....60" I was told.....who cares, the important question is will it be 1080P????

I know you have tried a lumagen hdp with your display and didn't see much difference in pq, I am thinking of getting a mosquito noise reduction or a dvdo for sd tv and sd dvd, do you think it will help and wich one would serve me better. I am happy with the hd coming from the player and the cable box. The toshiba is a beta product the player is slow, the remote sucks, if you want to get in the setup the player won't resume (thank God for the harmony) :)
and at times the sound disappear I have to shut the tv down get signal from the box and then start the movie again, it only happens at the beginning of a movie, but the pq in sd surprised me I wasn't excepecting much, I use 480p so I can keep the anamorphic display but I have to say that 1080i from the player with sddvd looks better and you were right , the tv reversed back to cinema on in 1080i
Thanks for any suggestion you might have

I've thought about the Mosquito as well. I can't stop you there. It might clean things up a bit. You'll pay for it though.

I wouldn't worry about the VP30. The Lumagen should at least equal if not better it and as I've said the NEC betters the Lumagen. The Lumagen Radiance (with HQV) or VP40 now that might be a different story.

The Mosquito aside, I think our best bet at this point is improving our source material. That means BD/HD-DVD and better broadcast HD. MPEG4 is a "point of light" for me as far as D* is concerned. :)

Hey guys and gals! I don't mean to break up this heated debate on the comings and goings of NEC and the their business choices, but how about getting back to issues that concern the current NEC product that most of us own and love? I just purchased a new HD set top box for my XR5. I have satellite through Dish Network and decided to upgrade to the vip211. This 211 has Mpeg-4 capabilities and offers HDMI output. Do you think this was a good choice?

Hi techjunky, let us know how sd is using the hdmi on the 211, I plan on upgrading the 622 after we move to our new home, also plan on upgrading the the XR5, but still about 60 days away; so any info on how the XR5 and 211/622 dish receivers work together is really appreciated.

cheers

Mike

Hi techjunky, let us know how sd is using the hdmi on the 211, I plan on upgrading the 622 after we move to our new home, also plan on upgrading the the XR5, but still about 60 days away; so any info on how the XR5 and 211/622 dish receivers work together is really appreciated.

cheers

Mike
No problem Mike! I hope to get it delivered some time this week. I will post results as soon as I can. Take care! :)

I've thought about the Mosquito as well. I can't stop you there. It might clean things up a bit. You'll pay for it though.

I wouldn't worry about the VP30. The Lumagen should at least equal if not better it and as I've said the NEC betters the Lumagen. The Lumagen Radiance (with HQV) or VP40 now that might be a different story.

The Mosquito aside, I think our best bet at this point is improving our source material. That means BD/HD-DVD and better broadcast HD. MPEG4 is a "point of light" for me as far as D* is concerned. :)

Just as a point of reference, there was a gentleman who had purchased a DVDO iScan ultra 2 months ago from a fellow AVS member to try and "fix" his poor D* SD picture. Needless to say, he's got the thing for sale again. :D

*Edit - What I mean is GI/GO. You'll be hard-pressed to fix an already bad SD signal with a scaler. I learned that myself by looking at the VP30.

cpcat - Have you heard when D* is supposed to be making the change to MPEG4? I've been chomping at the bit to get an HD-DVR, but I don't want to drop the bones on it if they're going to pull a "switchie" on me a few months later.

Thanks all for the great replys. I'll take what I have, calibrate it and enjoy it. Another question especially for you DC area folks. I have to move there soon and in the apartment that I will have I'm going to assume that I will not be able to continue my D* service. I can give up the D* temporary and even the NFL ticket for a season :mad: but I just can't do without TIVO! What kind of setup would you suggest in order to have HD and TIVO? I do need to get the digital channels? It's been a while since I've have cable so I don't know what's changed over the last 4 years. Should I go with a Comcast DVR or get one separate from them? Thanks in advance.

I think I may have a peculiar issue, wondering if anyone else has had this same problem and what you did to fix it. My "wide" or "aspect" ratios seem to be off. To give a description, it seems like all the ratios seem more "zoomed" in than before. I fell asleep on the couch earlier tonight, and my wife was watching Pretty Woman on one of the local stations OTA transmitted in HD. When I woke up at the end of the movie, I switched the "wide" ratio to 2.35:1 so it wouldn't mess with the black bars on the commercials (I wasn't really watching, just wanted to help prevent IR). Well, ever since then, everything seems extra zoomed in, with the exception of "stadium" mode. I played about 2 hours of Xbox 360 after that and it looked just fine though. It's very odd. I'm going to go to bed and let it sit overnight, maybe it'll right itself.

Anyone come across anything like this though? I'll look at the manual in the morning to see if there is a way to reset factory defaults and whatnot.

Thanks.

Thanks all for the great replys. I'll take what I have, calibrate it and enjoy it. Another question especially for you DC area folks. I have to move there soon and in the apartment that I will have I'm going to assume that I will not be able to continue my D* service. I can give up the D* temporary and even the NFL ticket for a season :mad: but I just can't do without TIVO! What kind of setup would you suggest in order to have HD and TIVO? I do need to get the digital channels? It's been a while since I've have cable so I don't know what's changed over the last 4 years. Should I go with a Comcast DVR or get one separate from them? Thanks in advance.
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Where are you planning to stay in the DC area? I live around the Tyson's Corner/MacLean area and get Cox - I use the SA 8300 DVR. You can also get any of the satelite providers with TiVo. If you are gong to rent, some apratments may lock you into a cable provider - Comcast, Cox (not sure if you can get the Verizon FIOS), some (not all) allow you to put a dish on the balcony, in which case you can continue using D* :)

If you rent in the suburbs (VA, MD) you are very likely to be able to continue using your current service provider.

I think I may have a peculiar issue, wondering if anyone else has had this same problem and what you did to fix it. My "wide" or "aspect" ratios seem to be off. To give a description, it seems like all the ratios seem more "zoomed" in than before....


I don't know about your set up, but a cable box can have zoom modes built into it as well. A co-worker of mine had a similar problem recently when the zoom mode on the cable box was accidentally changed.

I don't know about your set up, but a cable box can have zoom modes built into it as well. A co-worker of mine had a similar problem recently when the zoom mode on the cable box was accidentally changed.

I figured it out. Somehow, my wife had used the "zoom in" buttons on the remote. I tried using them last night, but I didn't get it to work at the time. Everything is back to normal.

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Where are you planning to stay in the DC area? I live around the Tyson's Corner/MacLean area and get Cox - I use the SA 8300 DVR. You can also get any of the satelite providers with TiVo. If you are gong to rent, some apratments may lock you into a cable provider - Comcast, Cox (not sure if you can get the Verizon FIOS), some (not all) allow you to put a dish on the balcony, in which case you can continue using D* :)

If you rent in the suburbs (VA, MD) you are very likely to be able to continue using your current service provider.


I'll be living in the city near the MCI center. I may have some sort of view of the southern sky but I fear not enough for D* service. I think the complex works with comcast. Did you get your DVR yourself or was it provided by Cox? I'll look into the Verizon FIOS.

Hello everyone! I'm new here. Live in Colorado, and went out looking at plasma displays. Most of them sounded like bug zappers. Even when the sales person told me they were designed for this altitude you could still hear them buzzing. I have not seen a NEC in person but do they make that same noise? I understand they are specifically designed for higher altitude. From reading most of everyone's posts, calibration of the NEC is a hot topic. Is this operation very difficult? I'm considering the 42XR4A. Thanks to everyone for any input and I apologize if my questions are too basic.

Hello everyone! I'm new here. Live in Colorado, and went out looking at plasma displays. Most of them sounded like bug zappers. Even when the sales person told me they were designed for this altitude you could still hear them buzzing. I have not seen a NEC in person but do they make that same noise? I understand they are specifically designed for higher altitude. From reading most of everyone's posts, calibration of the NEC is a hot topic. Is this operation very difficult? I'm considering the 42XR4A. Thanks to everyone for any input and I apologize if my questions are too basic.
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I believe both the NEC and Pannys claim to be designed for higher altitudes, but I don't believe it impacts the buzzing sound you will hear. I do believe that you will hear the buzzing from all sets at high altitude.

Calibrating the NEC (IMHO) not any more difficult that calibrating any other commercial display. I can compare this to a Panasonic 7UY, and they are about the same. Now, consumer units designed for plug-and-play are easier to calibrate since they don't allow you to customize the PQ beyond the basic settings. Based on my viewing preferences, not being able to customize the picture using the advanced settings would have been a deal breaker. I guess you need to decide if you are a plug-and-play sort of person or someone willing to hold a remote and customize the picture until you get the best possible image staring back at you :D

The 42XR4A is almost universally recognized to be a top class plasma.

The only thing that concerns me is the MSRP on this unit. It is listed (MSRP) at $500 more than a 50 inch Panny (60U) and $1,500 than a comparable 42 inch Panasonic, and that does not even include the stand (which will cost you upwards of $200)! While this is a great set, I am not sure I (personally) would pay a 60% price premium (especially since the differences in PQ between the top sets are very subtle to say the least)! If price is not a concern then this obviously one of the very best, but then why not consider the Pioneer Elite 43 in the mix.....

On the other hand I have yet to see anyone on this forum regret their 42XR4 decision - none whatsoever!

My summary is: Great set, great PQ, great build quality, make sure you get a good price or can justify the premium - that's all :D

Thanks allot for the quick reply. When I looking on line I found the NEC for less than 2k before shipping. :) I don't think I'm within the rules of this forum if I list the site, so I won't. Thanks again for the input, I think I may be leaning towards the NEC.

Thanks allot for the quick reply. When I looking on line I found the NEC for less than 2k before shipping. :) I don't think I'm within the rules of this forum if I list the site, so I won't. Thanks again for the input, I think I may be leaning towards the NEC.
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Hmmm. At anything below 2K I would consider the 42- XR4 a steal! I would also be suspicious of any site that posted a price below MSRP - since NEC and Pioneer generally does not allow this. Usually it is 'call for a price'. JMHO, but I would stick with a vendor that is known and reliable. I ordered both my Panny and NEC via Visual Apex and many folks have used Chris from Cleveland Plasma. Make sure you are able to get a reference before purchasing from an online store. I would avoid most of the New York based online stores like the plague :eek: I have heard too many horror stories......

I have to echo what plazman said...

Remember the "rules"

You get what you pay for
If something sounds too good to be true, it most likely is

IMHO, even the most reputable of NEC dealers would be hard-pressed to offer the 42XM/R4 at under $2K.

Those that seek to save quite a bit probably end up losing much more in the end. The price may be legit, but what about after sale support? While NEC does offer a great warranty (on the 'R' "home" models), I'd still be very leery if I wasn't sure that I had the 100% backing of the original retailer I bought from. Check with Chris from Cleveland Plasma, see what he can do for you.

50" model only please! If so, please read this message: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=670644

I guess I have to go out to someone else’s home, & see what their SD looks like on a 50" plasma or a CRT. The reason I bring this up. is after " proper calibration" and cleaning up my power system. MY xr5- SDpq -is very good- granted it is a little softer than a CRT PQ. But still very good.- I have not seen a 50" CRT picture either. I have a friend who is very respected in the HiFi community & really knows his SH^)^*%T. Said, try to get the source material to be as good as you can get it- from the source. Be it power-good input DVD player, good processor for music, good feed from the cables company and you if you can do this you should have a great experience… So I try to get the __ feed__ in to both my music and the xr5 the best I can get it. { My cables are all very reasonably inexpensive}. So if you are concern about PQ- work on the source.
Just my 2.2/2 cent worth {adjusted for inflation}
db

I have had my XR50 for about a month. Having trouble with the SD PQ(I conclude that it is a source issue). Everything else is great. It is Comcast (Motorola) cable with DVI to HDMI to the monitor. Being a neewbe I am overwhelmed with the amount of settings to tweak. I have Several questions I would much appreciate some direction with.

1) SD PQ is "grainy". I am using the settings posted here by cpcat and LisaM. Are there specific adjustments to address the "grainy" issue.

2) the Comcast guy (not very helpful/knowledgable )used component settings. So I took those off and used the DVI and went to the monitor directly. SD PQ probably the same. I did not adjust any settings after this. Does it matter?

3) My understanding is that channels 2-99 are SD. channels 100 to 700 "just" digital and then channels in the 700 to 799 HDTV. If I am able to adjust the SD channels better should I have a separate memory setting?

4) is there a comprehensive place where all the settings are explained (i.e., an orbiter?).

BTW bought the monitor based exclusively on this website-thanks. The information here was much better than the local (Santa Cruz, CA) stores.

Thanks, Greg

greg, 1. ask comcast if you have the most current box- or just take it back and sse if there is a difference. mine is HDMI>box>to XR. I used component when i first purchase and it was good PQ. My SD PQ is quite good.
2. see if you can have the plasma powered pluged into one socket. ( just see if if this helps) and no other EQ.
3. Tony17's thread is one stop/shop.
4. let the xr warm up for a short time....
db

Just bought 42xr4 from Cleveland. Can't wait to get it!!!!!!!

Well, I have posted on this thread for months and I finally am going to see this panel on display right next to a Pioneer 5060. I was told that the 5060 has been discontinued and Pioneer to bring out new glass in one month!

dfdtruckie: I have the 42XR4. It is a great set and you are going to love it.

Just bought 42xr4 from Cleveland. Can't wait to get it!!!!!!!
-------------------------

I wish I could lay my hands on one of these!

congratulations :D

Well, I have posted on this thread for months and I finally am going to see this panel on display right next to a Pioneer 5060. I was told that the 5060 has been discontinued and Pioneer to bring out new glass in one month!
------------

You mean the 50 XR5? My bet is that you'll see equivalent blacks with brighter whites on the NEC. The white on Pioneers look a little 'ivoryish' to me. Overall, very very similar (IMHO). let us know what you think....

I spent many many days deciding between these two sets, even ordered the 5060 and then cancelled it for the XR5. Even after I got the XR5, I went to my BB on several occasions to try and compare the picture performance.

Hey y'all. I've been away a while - lots of work. (bringing my plasma closer to fruition) I have a question for you guys.

I finally had a chance to see a NEC 42XR4 due to the incredible generosity of a forum member who let me take a lot of time with it. (Thanks!!!) I wanted to like it more than I did. Now, I'm wondering if I'm trusting what I saw. What I remember (and this was about 6 weeks ago, so take it with a grain of salt) was a picture which was fabulous on some channels and seemed almost cartoonish to me on others. It was the same with dvd's. It seemed that the panel did better with darker pictures. They really popped and felt very realistic and 3 dimensional. This was true of several HD channels and my dvd of the film Chicago. SD seemed okay as well. But other channels (lighter/brighter ones) seemed unrealistic to the point of distraction. This was true of my Lost dvd as well. The bright colors felt unrealistic/cartoony. Now, I'm not someone who typically objects to saturated colors. I like the Pioneer displays. But it seemed at the time like my 27" Mistubishi CRT might be better with skin tones. Then a week later I noticed it wasn't. Its skin tones aren't perfect by a long shot - though colors are quite good. I think I was watching the plasma more critically than I watch my tv at home (occupational hazard from spending hours here).

So now I'm trying to figure out what I saw. Was it that the NEC isn't for me? Or just that I was watching so critically that anything would look off. I still wish there was a way to see the NEC next to the Pioneer 5060 and the Panasonic 8UK. Of course soon there will be the new Pioneers to look at, and the 9UK. Will I ever stop shopping and buy?

If any of you have thoughts on what I saw or how realistic you find the colors, I'd love to hear them. Thanks for the help!

Channels 2-99 are not only SD but they are ANALOG channels on cable which is as bad as you can get. When I switched from Comcast to DirecTV it made a 500% difference in the PQ of the SD channels as DTV is all digital even with it's lousy compression. (I have the 50xr5 as well). SD looks more then good, in fact I was surprised on how good it looks. Of course when you compare it to an HD channel there is no comparison. There are some SD channels that are not as good as some others but overall SD looks fine (even sretched to full screen).

I got my set a week ago also based soley on discussions here as well (I had a Pana 42PX600 and returned it). PQ is so much better on the NEC.


I have had my XR50 for about a month. Having trouble with the SD PQ(I conclude that it is a source issue). Everything else is great. It is Comcast (Motorola) cable with DVI to HDMI to the monitor. Being a neewbe I am overwhelmed with the amount of settings to tweak. I have Several questions I would much appreciate some direction with.

1) SD PQ is "grainy". I am using the settings posted here by cpcat and LisaM. Are there specific adjustments to address the "grainy" issue.

2) the Comcast guy (not very helpful/knowledgable )used component settings. So I took those off and used the DVI and went to the monitor directly. SD PQ probably the same. I did not adjust any settings after this. Does it matter?

3) My understanding is that channels 2-99 are SD. channels 100 to 700 "just" digital and then channels in the 700 to 799 HDTV. If I am able to adjust the SD channels better should I have a separate memory setting?

4) is there a comprehensive place where all the settings are explained (i.e., an orbiter?).

BTW bought the monitor based exclusively on this website-thanks. The information here was much better than the local (Santa Cruz, CA) stores.

Thanks, Greg

Can lifting the 50XR5A by the sides of the panel with the base attached (base weighs around 28lbs) damage the display? We need to move it to paint. :)

If any of you have thoughts on what I saw or how realistic you find the colors, I'd love to hear them. Thanks for the help!

Do you know if the set was calibrated in any way? If it wasn't then that would account for what you saw.

Also, many peoples preferences differ in terms of colour, so it may just be a case of you not liking his settings.

Do you know if the set was calibrated in any way? If it wasn't then that would account for what you saw.

Also, many peoples preferences differ in terms of colour, so it may just be a case of you not liking his settings.


I don't think their set was calibrated but it had settings recommended by many on this thread (cpcat, lisam). They had several settings and I flipped between them.

How many HDMI inputs does the 61" have?

How many HDMI inputs does the 61" have?

For completeness.

Two HDMI, Two component, one VGA, one composite, one S-Video.

EDIT: This is for the 61XR4 of course. XM4 only has one DVI.

We have been using a Lumagen processor with the previous generation 50xm4s with good success. Perfect 1 to 1 pixel mapping!
Unfortunately the new 50xm5 seems to require different settings for 1 to 1 mapping? I tried some recommended Lumagen setting for the new model,but the horizontal pattern does not quite lock in. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks Dallas
PS. I know the new model has a better scaler,but I still like the white balance enhancements from the Lumagen

Can lifting the 50XR5A by the sides of the panel with the base attached (base weighs around 28lbs) damage the display? We need to move it to paint. :)
When I had to move mine I put one hand on the Handle on the back and the Other under the "Cross Arm" of the stand that seemed to be good support/way to move. I am not sure that I would just lift it by the panel. If you are concerned its only 4 bolts to remove the stand. One note, it is pretty Big/Bulky/Heavy all together.

50XR5's are on back order here in Canada; when's the 50XR6s going to show up?

I am located in Ontario, and just placed an order for the NEC 50XR5A through an authorized online reseller here in the province, and they informed me that it was going to take up to seven weeks to receive my unit.

I was kind of skeptical of lead time, so I did some digging around from other authorized resellers, both online and B&M, and found out that the shipping date should be sometime in June. Needless to say, now comes the anticipation of waiting for my new display.

Just wanted to thank everyone that contributed to this thread and helped me finally take the leap of "Blind Faith" with the NEC display panel.

Thanks
Mark.

Just a public service to the forum: If you are considering the Omnimount Plasma UCL mount - dont. Its not the greatest product out there.... very inflexible, poor support and low build quality.

Just a public service to the forum: If you are considering the Omnimount Plasma UCL mount - dont. Its not the greatest product out there.... very inflexible, poor support and low build quality.


Just curious how you came across your info. A month ago I bought an Omnimount CL-L with a UAL universal adapter to mount my 50XR5A that I'm looking to buy (thanks to all the participants in this thread, but especially CPCat, Plazman, Tony, LisaM). The CL-L is rated at 125 lbs, according to Omnimount's website, and can be used with the UAL adapter, which is supposed to work with the 50Xr5, again according to Omnimount's website as well as several Omnimount Cust Serv Reps I spoke to. Now your comment has me worried. Did I miss something?

As we are speaking about wall mounts, I have this wall mount from MustangAV on order with my panel -- Mustang MTSTAT3-PRO. Is anyone else running this mount, and or can comment on its full compatibility with the panel?

http://www.mustangav.com/mt_stat3pro.asp
(its a link to the manufacturer's website, I don't think that is against the forum rules)

Thanks for any feedback.

Post #2649 Just a public service to the forum: If you are considering the Omnimount Plasma UCL mount - dont. Its not the greatest product out there.... very inflexible, poor support and low build quality.
SHodorov

I have the wishbone UCL_X for my xr5-- if you want to i did a product review a few months back here for AVS- do a search...
I think it does have some issues -"cable management" is a joke. But it is built like a tank, i can extend the 50" plasma out 28" and it is as stable as you can get. and flip it 90` . Can you tell us a little more about what your experiences are??
db

You should ahve bought it last December: I had mine 5 days from the night i ordered it and it came in the morning..... ;^)
db



I am located in Ontario, and just placed an order for the NEC 50XR5A through an authorized online reseller here in the province, and they informed me that it was going to take up to seven weeks to receive my unit.

I was kind of skeptical of lead time, so I did some digging around from other authorized resellers, both online and B&M, and found out that the shipping date should be sometime in June. Needless to say, now comes the anticipation of waiting for my new display.

Just wanted to thank everyone that contributed to this thread and helped me finally take the leap of "Blind Faith" with the NEC display panel.

Thanks
Mark.

We have been using a Lumagen processor with the previous generation 50xm4s with good success. Perfect 1 to 1 pixel mapping!
Unfortunately the new 50xm5 seems to require different settings for 1 to 1 mapping? I tried some recommended Lumagen setting for the new model,but the horizontal pattern does not quite lock in. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks Dallas
PS. I know the new model has a better scaler,but I still like the white balance enhancements from the Lumagen


Look here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=659424

The settings I use with my Lumagen HDP/XR5 are there with detailed instructions. It's headed under "native rate via HDMI".
Enjoy. :)

Post #2649 Just a public service to the forum: If you are considering the Omnimount Plasma UCL mount - dont. Its not the greatest product out there.... very inflexible, poor support and low build quality.
SHodorov

I have the wishbone UCL_X for my xr5-- if you want to i did a product review a few months back here for AVS- do a search...
I think it does have some issues -"cable management" is a joke. But it is built like a tank, i can extend the 50" plasma out 28" and it is as stable as you can get. and flip it 90` . Can you tell us a little more about what your experiences are??
db

Hi DAB,

Do I understand your post above to mean that you can extend the UCL-X to 28" and then rotate it from a horizontal (or landscape) viewing position to a vertical (or portrait) viewing position, and back again? This is precisely the reason I bought the Omnimount CL-L. When I talked to the CSR's at Omnimount, they told me that the CL-X couldn't do the 90 degree rotate thing, and that only the CL-L could. If I had known the CL-X could do that, I would have bought it for the higher weight rating (200 lbs) and longer extension length (28"). Glad to hear you say it's built like a tank. Makes me feel a little better about my CL-L. I wish I had found your product review sooner.

Sorry to digress from plasma display discussion.....

Sorry to digress from plasma display discussion.....

That's ok, most everyone else is discussing HD-DVD right now anyway. I'm getting itchy about it myself even though my head tells me to wait for BD or maybe a combo player (might be waiting forever for that). Didn't someone here post that they had one with an XR5/XR4? Any follow up comments?

.

cpcat - Have you heard when D* is supposed to be making the change to MPEG4? I've been chomping at the bit to get an HD-DVR, but I don't want to drop the bones on it if they're going to pull a "switchie" on me a few months later.

Sorry, didn't see this til now. It's happening as we speak. I think by the end of the year it's supposed to be up and running in the top 12 markets (you'll have to check whether that's the exact number) and then more following in '07. It won't trickle down to me for a few years so I'm not real excited about upgrading any hardware at this point.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=501777

wbe- "I think" i read you could do portrait with the UCL-x. I just looked at it. One might have to rearange the connector. But i'll pull out my spec sheet latter to confirm.
And yes the plasma at 28"extendtion and rotate it 90`. and it is stable. and i would feel very comfortable w/ a 61" working with this also.
db

Do the rails on your wall mounts, span the 8mm threaded holes of the 50XRA or do you use the 4mm threaded holes?

Sorry, didn't see this til now. It's happening as we speak. I think by the end of the year it's supposed to be up and running in the top 12 markets (you'll have to check whether that's the exact number) and then more following in '07. It won't trickle down to me for a few years so I'm not real excited about upgrading any hardware at this point.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=501777

One of my wife's co-worker's husband is an employee of DirecTV, I'll talk to him to see what he has to say. I have a feeling that at least in my area it's going to be a while. It took us FOREVER just to get locals, who knows when we'll be getting HD locals.

As we are speaking about wall mounts, I have this wall mount from MustangAV on order with my panel -- Mustang MTSTAT3-PRO. Is anyone else running this mount, and or can comment on its full compatibility with the panel?

http://www.mustangav.com/mt_stat3pro.asp
(its a link to the manufacturer's website, I don't think that is against the forum rules)

Thanks for any feedback.

Those are rebadged Omni mounts and that is a flat mount that sits to far off the wall, about 2 ". You might as well do with a Sanus VMPL and at least you can tilt it. I have had 2 installs to date and they had those mounts ready to go and I sold them a Sanus for that reason.

http://www.clevelandplasma.com/images/prod_images/t100_1130635350-SanusVMPLB.jpg

If you use a Sanus VMPL 2 it will be about 1" off the wall.

http://www.sanus.com/images/VMPL2s.jpg

Do the rails on your wall mounts, span the 8mm threaded holes of the 50XRA or do you use the 4mm threaded holes?
There is only one and I was just told about it, it is a Cheif mount. Not sure on the model number. There is no other mount made that will span the 8MM holes, not even the NEC mount.

Stumbled upon this thread out of sheer chance and I'm glad I did.. I don't need a tuner built-in nor do I need speakers. Cosmetically, this unit looks fantastic!

Quick questions:

1. My current Sony GWIII RP LCD doesn't allow an HD stretching -- In other words, when I feed in the signal via DVI from my Media Center PC and I play a 4:3 SDTV recorded show, it shows up as 4:3. I can't stretch the thing. Does the NEC 50XR5 have this limitation?

2. Are there discrete remote codes for on, off and input selection?

What is the best articulating wall mount? I want to adjust my plasma from side to side, as well as up and down. I'd like to bring the plasma atleast a foot off the wall.

Anyone tried one?

Stumbled upon this thread out of sheer chance and I'm glad I did.. I don't need a tuner built-in nor do I need speakers. Cosmetically, this unit looks fantastic!

Quick questions:

1. My current Sony GWIII RP LCD doesn't allow an HD stretching -- In other words, when I feed in the signal via DVI from my Media Center PC and I play a 4:3 SDTV recorded show, it shows up as 4:3. I can't stretch the thing. Does the NEC 50XR5 have this limitation?

2. Are there discrete remote codes for on, off and input selection?

Bobby,

The answers to your questions are 1)No and 2)Yes. The NEC has a great stretch mode called "Stadium" that is great with stretching 4:3 HD material (and SD material for that matter)

And yes, there are discrete codes for on/off and all input selections as well as memory setting.

Take care,

Stumbled upon this thread out of sheer chance and I'm glad I did.. I don't need a tuner built-in nor do I need speakers. Cosmetically, this unit looks fantastic!

Quick questions:

1. My current Sony GWIII RP LCD doesn't allow an HD stretching -- In other words, when I feed in the signal via DVI from my Media Center PC and I play a 4:3 SDTV recorded show, it shows up as 4:3. I can't stretch the thing. Does the NEC 50XR5 have this limitation?

2. Are there discrete remote codes for on, off and input selection?

Bobby,

Tony is dead-on. Stadium rocks! The NEC remote is one of the best factory remotes I've ever seen. I use the Harmony 880, but I'd have NO shame in using the NEC one, it's great.

I too (a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...) was a GWIII owner myself. I had one of the infamous "buzzing" bulb sets. It was eventually fixed, but it was such an ordeal that I just decided to sell it. I ended up getting a Sony 30" WS HD CRT set which served me well for almost 2 years, but it was just too small. I was looking at the 50" and 60" SXRD sets, but some of the things owners were saying made me real leery. I started looking at LCDs, but wanted at least 50". I then decided on plasma, and like you, stumbled into this thread and the NEC brand, which IMHO, is an undiscovered gem in the plasma world.

Long story short, I am now the proud owner of a 50XR5A set that I've had for about 3 weeks now. I've fed it all kinds of different signals, and I can't say enough how happy I am with it. Chris at Cleveland Plasma is a great guy to deal with, I highly recommend him, and I know a few members have had good experiences with TV Authority and Visual Apex.

Good luck with your decision. Please let us know how it goes even if you don't end up with a NEC, I know I'm always interested in hearing other people's experiences! :)

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/documents/InstallationGuides/50XR5_IGv10.pdf

Chris, Just for clarification here, when you say 4mm and 8mm. Based on the above NEC spec. Are you speaking of: for wall mount-8-M4 depth 14 and for pc 4mm depth 10. ? {Top left side}
Or where is the 4mm & 8mm holes , on this page.




There is only one and I was just told about it, it is a Cheif mount. Not sure on the model number. There is no other mount made that will span the 8MM holes, not even the NEC mount.

Those are rebadged Omni mounts and that is a flat mount that sits to far off the wall, about 2 ". You might as well do with a Sanus VMPL and at least you can tilt it. I have had 2 installs to date and they had those mounts ready to go and I sold them a Sanus for that reason.

http://www.clevelandplasma.com/images/prod_images/t100_1130635350-SanusVMPLB.jpg

If you use a Sanus VMPL 2 it will be about 1" off the wall.

http://www.sanus.com/images/VMPL2s.jpg
I used the "Peerless"(SF660P) mount that Chris sold me. It looks almost identical to the Sanus mounts pictured here. It worked great! I did the install myself. I lifted the plasma on the mount and walla, it was done! This mount is also theft proof. Unless they decide to take the whole wall! ;) I am in the process of cutting a recessed hole in my wall to house my components. I will post pics when my install is complete. Note* I used 6 screws that were (M4 and 12mm long) 3 screws per bracket. That was the proper bolt size for the XR5.

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/documents/InstallationGuides/50XR5_IGv10.pdf

Chris, Just for clarification here, when you say 4mm and 8mm. Based on the above NEC spec. Are you speaking of: for wall mount-8-M4 depth 14 and for pc 4mm depth 10. ? {Top left side}
Or where is the 4mm & 8mm holes , on this page.

The 8M holes are shown on the right had side of the diagram as 4-8M DEPTH 18. The 8M holes are located just above the top 4M hole and just below the bottom 4M hole, all these holes are in a straight line so what I do in most cases is use the Sanus VMPL or the VMPL 2 and use the top 8M bolts and fill in with as many 4M bolts as I can since there are so many holes in these stlye mounts.

I used the "Peerless"(SF660P) mount that Chris sold me. It looks almost identical to the Sanus mounts pictured here.
There are alot of mounts out there and most are similar, most have excellent products. Tough choices I'll tell you, first the Plasma, then the mount, power conditioner, to buy the extended warranty or not, ect ect LOL :D

When I had to move mine I put one hand on the Handle on the back and the Other under the "Cross Arm" of the stand that seemed to be good support/way to move. I am not sure that I would just lift it by the panel. If you are concerned its only 4 bolts to remove the stand. One note, it is pretty Big/Bulky/Heavy all together.

That's what my brother and I did when we put my XR5/NEC stand on the mantle. It was somewhat bulky, but we moved it no problem. I think it was more my nerves thinking "If we drop this thing, I'm going to walk into the kitchen, find the biggest knife I can, and....."

Chris is right, not even NEC's own 4250WMK wall tilt mount kit rails will span the NEC 50XR5A's 8mm threaded holes, but is designed for the 4mm threaded holes.

Those are rebadged Omni mounts and that is a flat mount that sits to far off the wall, about 2 ". You might as well do with a Sanus VMPL and at least you can tilt it. I have had 2 installs to date and they had those mounts ready to go and I sold them a Sanus for that reason.

If you use a Sanus VMPL 2 it will be about 1" off the wall.

Chris thanks a lot for providing some feedback on the wall mount, I will definitely investigate the Sanus Mount and its availability up here in Canada, as I have seven weeks to look around before I get my panel. :) It seems we are not as efficient up here as you in the U.S.

I think I will look into the VPML 3 as that is the tilting unit according the Sanus website, but the 1.25" clearance of the VPML 2 is very nice also. Decisions.. Decisions.. :D

Thanks once again Chris!

Chris,
Just to Clarify a FYI. My Omnimount Wishbone UCL_XP is mounted using the -4-8M DEPTH 18 holes. They were the largest and appeared to be the strongest. Unless you suggest other wise,,,, the kit came with enough nuts&bolts to attach about 8 plasmas. So I think it should be adaptable to any plasma. However, for the price of this mount {flexibility and built quality are good}, it's cable management is a joke and the plastic covers for the ends and hardware {to make the back look nice and clean} do not work….. At all.
db


The 8M holes are shown on the right had side of the diagram as 4-8M DEPTH 18. The 8M holes are located just above the top 4M hole and just below the bottom 4M hole, all these holes are in a straight line so what I do in most cases is use the Sanus VMPL or the VMPL 2 and use the top 8M bolts and fill in with as many 4M bolts as I can since there are so many holes in these stlye mounts.

DAB,WBE more info about why I hate my mount...

Omnimount is clueless when it comes to helping clients out. The mount had 2 bolts frozen that I had to dremel off. I called for a replacement (local HW stores didnt carry those) it took 2 tries and 12 days to get the right ones sent. Finally got all the hardware and installed the mount to learn that it cannot be locked in a specific position. it just "travels" away from the wall. Omni mount suggested I return it... no much help with everything installed and routed. I got a rubber door guard from HD and jammed it between the cross arms to provide more friction.

When extended over a few inches from the wall the mount has a significant bounce to it. much more then I expected. it gets much worse as you go farther out. I never had an articulating mount before so this may be a normal thing...


"Cable managment" is a bunch of zip ties on a spring loaded wire attached to the top rail of the mount

I also called asking about a center speaker bracket. The lady on the phone said something like 'if i had a dime for every call I get with this question..." she said its something the engineers have been made aware of. When i asked for an ETA her answer was basically - never.


One good thing is that it came with a long and short metal rail for the back plate. the long rail is long enought to span both 8mm bolts. mine is attached using the 4 8mm bolts and 4 smaller bolts as well (I know its overkill)

glad to help with any further questions...

Chris,
Just to Clarify a FYI. My Omnimount Wishbone UCL_XP is mounted using the -4-8M DEPTH 18 holes. They were the largest and appeared to be the strongest. Unless you suggest other wise,,,, the kit came with enough nuts&bolts to attach about 8 plasmas. So I think it should be adaptable to any plasma. However, for the price of this mount {flexibility and built quality are good}, it's cable management is a joke and the plastic covers for the ends and hardware {to make the back look nice and clean} do not work….. At all.
db
I was refering to standard tilt or flat mounts, as far as the 8MM bolt hole span...articulating arm I did not include.........

I know it will soon be asked so here is more info on the Omni mount:
I know I have sold "0" (cheaper version) UCL-L Omni mounts and recommend people to get the UCL-X Platnuim HERE (http://www.omnimount.com/consumer/product.asp?p=208) (high end version)

http://www.omnimount.com/images/products_nsc/UCLXDSL.jpg (http://www.omnimount.com/consumer/product.asp?p=208)

Tony17 & Cpcat,
When you did your xr5 calibration settings. Did you use any form of Bias Lighting (Backlighting)? If so, what kind. If not do you think it might make a difference. My settings have been changing with different light illuminations.
db

Tony17 & Cpcat,
When you did your xr5 calibration settings. Did you use any form of Bias Lighting (Backlighting)? If so, what kind. If not do you think it might make a difference. My settings have been changing with different light illuminations.
db

DAB, no I did not use a bias light when I did my calibrations. I watch TV in the complete dark and that is how I did my calibrations. Good info on both at the following link. I am actually having Eliab do an ISF calibration on my XR5 in mid-June, and am pretty excited about it. I will let you know the results.

http://www.americanwired.com/video/calibration4.html

In case it doesn't work, here is the text from it...

"LIGHT CONTROL

The most obvious and least difficult thing that anyone can do to instantly improve their display's image is to simply turn off all the lights and/or to view it during the evening when the daylight is not a factor anymore. The one and only exception to this rule being a bias light (more on this later). Consider this, a typical theater will have a contrast ratio (CR) of about 100:1. Whereas a typical living room during the day or at night with all the lights on may only achieve a CR of about 10:1. Put another way, in a darkened theater the blacks may be approximately 100 times darker than white. Whereas in a bright living room, the blacks may only be about 10 times darker than white. This greatly limited dynamic range will negatively impact image quality in a number of ways. For one, fine shadow detail (faint information in dark regions of the picture, i.e., pinstripes on a dark suit, etc.) will likely go unnoticed. The same holds true for the opposite end of the spectrum where fine white detail (information in the bright regions of the picture, i.e. clouds, etc.) will be difficult to perceive as well. Colors too will suffer in that they will get washed out by the light hitting the screen. Think of a flashlight pointed at a wall and how the spotlight seems to lighten the color. Even in a very bright room, the light aimed at the wall would still "dilute" the color somewhat. This is an extreme example but nonetheless illustrates to some degree how intense light (i.e., a bright room) can make colors seem faded.

Another reason to do your critical viewing in a controlled ambient lighting environment is because an excessively bright room will significantly alter a picture's "sound-stage" to use an audio analogy or what I refer to as "atmosphere." By that I mean a display's ability to more accurately reproduce the natural conditions associated with a certain time of day, year, and/or climate most noticeable in outdoor scenes. With that audio analogy in mind, if you were to place two speakers side by side and gradually space them apart to their optimum positions while listening to music, you would witness the soundfield grow from a flat boom-box-like quality to a spatial soundstage where the placement of instruments/ musicians will be realized and where a sense of the room that the recording was done in will be possible (particularly with acoustic music). Just as the music would "come alive" as the speakers are moved into to their correct location so will a display's picture as the ambient light in the viewing environment is lowered to its correct level (off!).

Now, some of you might be thinking that you cannot watch TV in a completely darkened room either because it is mostly done during the day in a room were the ambient light cannot be controlled, you or your significant other prefers to have a light on when viewing during the evening, and/or because it causes your eye fatigue. My short response to these objections would be this.

There does not exist, nor will there ever likely exist, a video system that can perform to optimum levels if the image is being bombarded by stray light (even if Joe Kane himself were to calibrate it!).

Why buy a Ferrari F430 if you are only going to drive it to the supermarket? To me, it is perfectly analogous to seeing people spend thousands, often tens of thousands of dollars assembling a video system only to view it with the lights on. Amazingly, I have actually had some clients in the past who insisted on having me perform a calibration with the lights on because that was how they viewed TV, never mind the fact they were paying me almost $500.00 to improve the picture! Occasionally, I would get an individual that wanted me to create a correct setting for nighttime viewing and a correct setting for daytime viewing. Let me make this as perfectly clear as possible.

There is no such thing as a "Correct Daytime Mode" on a display device. I would suggest renaming it "Incorrect Daytime Mode" instead as the brightness and contrast will have to be raised to undesirable (and perhaps unsafe) levels to compensate for room lighting. Thus the term "Correct Daytime Mode" is actually a misnomer as it will surely have to deviate from the truly correct standards set forth by the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) for proper video presentation.

If most of your viewing is done during the day, it is imperative that you do everything possible to eliminate as much of the stray light entering the room. This would entail shutting all blinds in the direction that allows the least amount of light in, closing all curtains, shutting all doors, and of course turning off all the lights. In many rooms, however, this is simply not going to be enough to approximate the desired blackout viewing conditions. One option would be to make cardboard cutouts that can be fitted over the windows. This is an inexpensive and simple solution that will turn any bright room into a video friendly environment. Another option would be to get light-blocking curtains. There are literally thousands that will work with just about any decor. I especially like the thick dark velvet ones which always remind me of being in a theater! Another similar approach would be to get light-blocking shades. Here again you will have a huge selection to choose from. And for those interested in pursuing the best option of all, there are a number of companies that offer motorized remote controllable shades that run up and down on a track that form an impenetrable seal for a total cave-like effect. As you can image, they are not cheap but man are they ever cool! Stewart Film Screen makes such a product which they call "Ambience Cinema Shade." These shades can be custom made to fit any size window and are available in a number of different colors. They can even be custom printed with any image such as movie posters of your favorite films or the pattern of the wall paper in the room!

Not all light in the room is bad however. In fact, the right type of light, with the right intensity, in the right location, can actually be quite beneficial. The issue arises with the types of light that are commonly used in our homes. For one, they are usually too bright and are often placed on an end table in front of the screen. As a result, colors will get washed out, shadow detail will diminish, screen reflections abound, and dynamic range goes out the window (no pun intended!). But another thing occurs which you may not be aware of. Your perception of the colors will also become skewed by the unique spectral characteristics of the light under which you are viewing your display. So depending on the type of bulb that you are using and its age, everything may have a reddish, bluish, or greenish tint. It therefore goes without saying that typical room lighting should be turned off for any type of serious viewing.

IDEAL-LUME BIAS LIGHTING

As mentioned earlier, there is only one light which is acceptable for use in a home theater environment and that would be the Ideal-Lume Bias Light by Cinema Quest Inc. The unit comprises of a slender T5 fluorescent fixture, an electronic ballast, a low wattage T5 bulb, a rotating mechanical baffle tube to regulate light output, and velcro/screws for mounting purposes. What differentiates this light over what you would normally have in your living room is that the bulb itself is the same color temperature as your display should be set to (D6500) and has a very high Color Rendering Index (CRI) of about 90 (out of 100) as well as an excellent Spectral Power Distribution (SPD). In other words, this is an exceedingly neutral light that will not adversely impact your set's picture. But what is also of paramount importance is the location of the light. It needs to be placed behind the TV, horizontally, and usually on the back of the display facing the back wall. The rule of thumb is to have the backlighting be less than 10% of the peak light output of your display. Digital Video Essentials (DVE) has a test pattern which they call "Ambient Light Reference" (Title 12, Chapter 16) that can assist you with this.

Once mounted correctly, the additional light produced by the Ideal-Lume will occupy that part of your field of vision which would normally be occupied by a large movie screen. This in turn relaxes or biases your iris by not having it open fully during a dark scene or close during a very bright scene. This constant opening and closing causes eye fatigue for some people which explains why so many like to have lights on in the first place! By the way, an added plus with a bias light is that it will also improve perceived contrast ratio which is particularly beneficial on digital displays whose black levels are not as "black" as the best CRT monitors. Models start at around $45.00 making the Ideal-Lume one of the best home theater deals ever! "

DAB,WBE more info about why I hate my mount...

Thanks for the info and the heads up. I'll be watchful. I got the mount before I got the TV. Had to make sure it fit my constraints first (still don't have the XR5 yet). So I 'll have to see how it performs when the XR5 finally arrives. Based on your comments, I'll be cautiously optimistic.

When extended over a few inches from the wall the mount has a significant bounce to it. much more then I expected. it gets much worse as you go farther out. I never had an articulating mount before so this may be a normal thing...

I have the CL-L, too, with the UAL adapter (not the UCL-L which automatically pairs the CL-L with Omni's UAM universal Adapter). I am very curious as to how many inches of sag/bounce you are experiencing when extended, esp at full extension. Any idea?

"Cable managment" is a bunch of zip ties on a spring loaded wire attached to the top rail of the mount

I have yet to experience this yet, but upon inspection of my mount, there are plastic covers that are attached to the arms of the mount, that when unattached, allow the cable to be placed underneath and along the arms. Then when re-attached, hide most of the cabling. Based on what you and DAB are saying, it sounds like this doesn't work very well. Oh well. I'll have to give a try anyway. Thanks again for your comments.

After scanning this entire thread :p I'm right back where I started: Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK

Summary IMHO: The 50XR5 probably comes close but there isn't nearly enough feedback available to make a smart decision. Even on this long thread there are maybe 20 owners. Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons. Where can you buy other than Cleveland Plasma? If it's difficult to view and purchase today then what about getting service in 3 years after the NEC/Pioneer merger? IR seems to come up too often. I just can't see taking the "blind leap of faith" when there's a proven alternative that probably costs less.

I know it will soon be asked so here is more info on the Omni mount:
I know I have sold "0" (cheaper version) UCL-L Omni mounts and recommend people to get the UCL-X Platnuim HERE (http://www.omnimount.com/consumer/product.asp?p=208) (high end version)

I would have bought this one, too, but I needed the 90 degree rotate feature the CL-L provides. Luckily, the CL-L's weight rating is high enough (125lbs) to support the XR5 and the UAL adapter (98 lb + 9 lb = 107 lb +/-). Yup, cutting it close. :o

Here's the item...
http://www.omnimount.com/images/products_nsc/CLLDSS.jpg (http://www.omnimount.com/consumer/product.asp?p=205)

After scanning this entire thread :p I'm right back where I started: Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK

Summary IMHO: The 50XR5 probably comes close but there isn't nearly enough feedback available to make a smart decision. Even on this long thread there are maybe 20 owners. Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons. Where can you buy other than Cleveland Plasma?

Here is NEC's website that lists all the authorized internet resellers (http://www.necvsd.com:3000/pxauth/pxresellers.php).

Here is NEC's website that lists all the authorized internet resellers (http://www.necvsd.com:3000/pxauth/pxresellers.php).
------------

Could not find Cleveland Plasma on the list :confused:

After scanning this entire thread :p I'm right back where I started: Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK

Summary IMHO: The 50XR5 probably comes close but there isn't nearly enough feedback available to make a smart decision. Even on this long thread there are maybe 20 owners. Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons. Where can you buy other than Cleveland Plasma? If it's difficult to view and purchase today then what about getting service in 3 years after the NEC/Pioneer merger? IR seems to come up too often. I just can't see taking the "blind leap of faith" when there's a proven alternative that probably costs less.
I made the plunge site unseen, and I couldn't be happier. Even if there was only 20 owners like you say there are in this thread, is it a fluke that we have all received fabulous displays from NEC. I think not. Anyway, you can have Panasonic, I would take an NEC hands down. :)

he is extreme electronics. great guy.

Cleveland Plasma is also known as Extreme Electronics. They are indeed an authorized dealer.

After scanning this entire thread :p I'm right back where I started: Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK

Summary IMHO: The 50XR5 probably comes close but there isn't nearly enough feedback available to make a smart decision. Even on this long thread there are maybe 20 owners. Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons. Where can you buy other than Cleveland Plasma? If it's difficult to view and purchase today then what about getting service in 3 years after the NEC/Pioneer merger? IR seems to come up too often. I just can't see taking the "blind leap of faith" when there's a proven alternative that probably costs less.
First and foremost...
For most of us NEC owners the NEC IS the Proven Alternative.

IMHO... I was IR-Retentive before and when I got my XR5... in retrospect...(and I still reccomend a breakin period) it is way overblown.. in fact I would say it is borderline FUD... My dad bought a 60U, guess what ... put up the menu for a couple minutes turn it off and guess what ... a little IR... the same as an NEC.


BTW
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1941251,00.asp?kc=PCRSS02129TX1K0000530
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1941292,00.asp


But in reality your solution is easy...Do what you are comfortable doing... Turn off the web...close your eyes...ask yourself ... what your priorities are... what your risk/reward ratio is ... and of course what you really want....and get that panel. NEC/PANNY/PIO... your gonna be happy!

I was actually all set to get the 8uk and had one on order when they were nowhere to be found. I decided not to wait anymore and got the NEC sight unseen as well.

The major pro the NEC had over the Panny is the longer and in house warrenty. I would hate it if I had to take a 50" pdp off my wall into my SUV and drive to NJ on a day off to have it fixed....

Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons.

Somewhere in one of the threads is a 3rd party review that says the xr5 has better blacks (according to their test) than the Panasonic 50/500 series. Admittingly that's about the only thing I've seen aside from AVS reviews.

------------

Could not find Cleveland Plasma on the list :confused:


SHodorov and LisaM beat me to it. Also, if you click on the button to sort by URL, you will find alphabetically listed, www.clevelandplasma.com :: Extreme Electronis LLC : Maple Hts, OH

After scanning this entire thread :p I'm right back where I started: Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK

Summary IMHO: The 50XR5 probably comes close but there isn't nearly enough feedback available to make a smart decision. Even on this long thread there are maybe 20 owners. Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons. Where can you buy other than Cleveland Plasma? If it's difficult to view and purchase today then what about getting service in 3 years after the NEC/Pioneer merger? IR seems to come up too often. I just can't see taking the "blind leap of faith" when there's a proven alternative that probably costs less.


Not enough feedback? I wouldn't look at the replys, I'd look at the views of this thread, over 138K. Many people come here just to look for info, review links etc. rather than get into the lengthy discussions on wall mounts and grayscales. I think that there are probably a few more than just 20 owners contributing the thread. I agree with you that NEC consumers panel are all but impossible, CHECK THAT , they CANNOT be found for viewing but that is because of NEC's terrible marketing philosophy if they even have one. Media such as Audioholics and Home Theater Magazine can only review the products if they are sent to them by the companies. Obviously, NEC has not been interested in playing this game. I believe it's just as difficult to get a view at a RUNCO or a top line Fuji but they are considered to be great products anyway. As long as you choose a authorized dealer online or not you should be able have enough time to get a product evaluate it and if it doesn't meet your liking, return it within a reasonable amount of time (minus a modest re-stocking fee of course!). I totally feel you on the blind faith thing but I took the step anyway so I'm hoping works out , [FOOT STOMP!! TO MY FRIEND IN OHIO!!] . Ultimately there's only so much research that can be done and I'm past the point of burnout. I'm really to start watching some TV. Good luck to you.

After scanning this entire thread :p I'm right back where I started: Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK

Summary IMHO: The 50XR5 probably comes close but there isn't nearly enough feedback available to make a smart decision. Even on this long thread there are maybe 20 owners. Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons. Where can you buy other than Cleveland Plasma? If it's difficult to view and purchase today then what about getting service in 3 years after the NEC/Pioneer merger? IR seems to come up too often. I just can't see taking the "blind leap of faith" when there's a proven alternative that probably costs less.

Mule65,

Ultimately you are going to have to buy something you are totally comfortable with. I have just put in my order for the NEC, and I have never seen it, Am I nervous? Of course, its a lot of money being dropped on a display I have never seen. One of my major criteria was that I don't need a cable tuner, and I wanted a display to be easily ISF Calibrated, while the Panny TH-50PHD8UK easily fits those criteria, I did not like the idea of having to purchase (and possibly wait for) the Component/HDMI Blades, with the NEC Two component and two HDMI connections are built in.

But just to reiterate what bvader said, with a NEC, Pioneer or Panny in this price range, you are definitely not going to make a bad choice for a panel.

Good luck with your Plasma hunt.

Mule65,

Nice work on stirring up the hornets nest!

Mule65,

Nice work on stirring up the hornets nest!
Amen Brother!...
What Good is a Pot if is NOT being Stirred!

After scanning this entire thread :p I'm right back where I started: Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK

Summary IMHO: The 50XR5 probably comes close but there isn't nearly enough feedback available to make a smart decision. Even on this long thread there are maybe 20 owners. Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons. Where can you buy other than Cleveland Plasma? If it's difficult to view and purchase today then what about getting service in 3 years after the NEC/Pioneer merger? IR seems to come up too often. I just can't see taking the "blind leap of faith" when there's a proven alternative that probably costs less.


You will not be able to stretch 4:3 HD material or accept a 1080p signal with the 8UK. This, coupled with the complaints of how the "just" mode looks on the commercial Panny, sealed the deal for me. The "stadium" mode on the NEC is fantastic.

I also got leary of Panny shifting their production to Mexico. Seems like more and more posts are popping up about problems.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=656722
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=657257
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=534816
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=642988
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=605490
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655719
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=656030
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=671542
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=650399
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=654405
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655024
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=654644
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=657710
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=578516
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=671760
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=670232

Mule65,

Nice work on stirring up the hornets nest!

Sorry! :) There are certainly a lot of people are watching developments here -- a good sign. I have a month before I buy so nothing wall-mountable has been ruled out yet. Keep the info coming!

Somewhere in one of the threads is a 3rd party review that says the xr5 has better blacks (according to their test) than the Panasonic 50/500 series. Admittingly that's about the only thing I've seen aside from AVS reviews.
--------------
????

I can't get the XR5 to show better blacks than my Panny 7UY, I'd be suspicious of it doing better than the 50/500 (which are later generation) :rolleyes:

What I cannot dispute are:

1. NEC does an amazingly poor job of getting their sets to 3rd party reviewers or on display shelves. To call this a consumer plasma and then make it so hard to evaluate is total nonsense (IMHO)!

2. Runco and Fujitsu are not selling to the same market that NEC is. They are high-end displays that they sell exclusively through high end retailers. I doubt people buy Fujitsu and Runco unseen :rolleyes:

3.The 8UK is significantly cheaper than the NEC XR5 (around 700-800). For the difference you get better connectivity and warranty.

What is subjective (IMHO):

4. The PQ on my Panny 7UY and NEC XR5 is very close and completely in the same league. I would give a slight edge in PQ to the new 8UK (from what I have seen)...

No one can be faulted for buying what they are comfortable. On hindsight, the only reason I bought the NEC unseen was because getting my hands on the 8UK was proving an impossible task and I didn't really like the PQ on the Pioneers, so I rolled the dice (to an extent) on the NEC. Luckily it turned out to be a very good set!

--------------
3.The 8UK is significantly cheaper than the NEC XR5 (around 700-800). For the difference you get better connectivity and warranty.


(The price difference is actually $400-$500 between the XR5 and the 8UK)

You are comparing the price on the consumer NEC against the commercial Panasonic. A fair comparison would be the XM5A which is the commercial NEC against the 8UK. If you do this you will see that the NEC is about $200 less than the 8UK after you buy the input board.

After scanning this entire thread :p I'm right back where I started: Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK

Summary IMHO: The 50XR5 probably comes close but there isn't nearly enough feedback available to make a smart decision. Even on this long thread there are maybe 20 owners. Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons. Where can you buy other than Cleveland Plasma? If it's difficult to view and purchase today then what about getting service in 3 years after the NEC/Pioneer merger? IR seems to come up too often. I just can't see taking the "blind leap of faith" when there's a proven alternative that probably costs less.

Here's a review of the 42" model from a "mainstream" source (PC Mag):

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1941292,00.asp

I own the 50 from Cleveland Plasma and am very pleasd with the monitor. Just FYI, I own the 42 Panny HD (consumer version w/ speakers) and am very happy with that too.

Eric

Originally Posted by rhoffman
Somewhere in one of the threads is a 3rd party review that says the xr5 has better blacks (according to their test) than the Panasonic 50/500 series. Admittingly that's about the only thing I've seen aside from AVS reviews.

--------------
????

I can't get the XR5 to show better blacks than my Panny 7UY, I'd be suspicious of it doing better than the 50/500 (which are later generation) :rolleyes:

...
I think rhoffam is referring to the PCMag review of the 42XR4 which stated the ... to paraphase... The NEC had 3 times better blacks than the Panny... I find that hard/if not impossible to believe... and there was a terrible thrashing thread on that subject... to which some cast then a doubt on the entire review...

But it did give the NEC a very good rating...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1941292,00.asp

Here's a review of the 42" model from a "mainstream" source (PC Mag):

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1941292,00.asp

I own the 50 from Cleveland Plasma and am very pleasd with the monitor. Just FYI, I own the 42 Panny HD (consumer version w/ speakers) and am very happy with that too.

Eric

I own the panny 42" also. It is a good TV 9this was was made in Japan) but doesn't have all the tweaks and settings that I like.

(The price difference is actually $400-$500 between the XR5 and the 8UK)

You are comparing the price on the consumer NEC against the commercial Panasonic. A fair comparison would be the XM5A which is the commercial NEC against the 8UK. If you do this you will see that the NEC is about $200 less than the 8UK after you buy the input board.
-----------

In my book to be considered a consumer model, it should be sold via consumer outlets! The fact that the XR5 includes optional stand, speakers and does not come with a TV tuner leads me to believe that they are more comparable to the Panny 8UK, rather than the consumer Panasonics!

Yes. The XM5A is definitely an option to consider. Does it use the same panel and scalers as the XR5A?

In any case, even at the 400-500 difference (which I am assuming this does not factor in the table stand, which is more expensive for the NEC), you need to evaluate the trade-off of better connectivity (2 HDMI v 0 for the Panny and cost around $150 each) and better warranty (3 years in home v. 1 year take to dealer) and equivalent PQ (some would give the edge to the Panny, while others to the NEC). My rule of thumb is, if you like the PQ of a Pioneer over the older 50/500U Panasonic, you will also prefer the NEC over the Panny. If you prefer a Panny over a Pioneer, you will also prefer the panny 8UK over the NEC!

The other difference is the all black and thin bezel of the 8UK v. the black and silver of the XR5. The XM5A has a pretty ugly 'clown's feet' table stand (IMHO)...

The XR5 is definitely an excellent value.....for what you get.

Perhaps we need to start a campaign to force NEC to have a more customer friendly sales model :rolleyes:

My 2 cents...

--------------

4. The PQ on my Panny 7UY and NEC XR5 is very close and completely in the same league. I would give a slight edge in PQ to the new 8UK (from what I have seen)...



Just to clarify plazman, cause I thought I heard you say it before - but your slightly better PQ edge for the 8UK is really only for DVD's. I think you said (and others) that the HD PQ of the NEC is superior, which I would have to agree with.

Just think that this should be clarified as most people base their decision on one or the other.

:)

-----------

Yes. The XM5A is definitely an option to consider. Does it use the same panel and scalers as the XR5A? Yes, the only difference is the bezel, inputs, warranty and the OSM options are just a little different.


Perhaps we need to start a campaign to force NEC to have a more customer friendly sales model :rolleyes:

My 2 cents...

I agree completely but now that Pioneer has their hands in it............ :eek:

Just to clarify plazman, cause I thought I heard you say it before - but your slightly better PQ edge for the 8UK is really only for DVD's. I think you said (and others) that the HD PQ of the NEC is superior, which I would have to agree with.

Just think that this should be clarified as most people base their decision on one or the other.

:)

Correct! These are both excellent sets and you should sonsider your viewing habits in dermining which one you will enjoy more....

I really like the colors and the 'pop' of the picture when you are viewing channels like Discovery HD etc. The NEC picture is brighter and the colors more vivid than on the Panny 8UK. The Panny's strengths (at least the 8UK IMHO) is in DVDs with lots of dark areas like Master and Commander....

The new consumer Panny - the 60U is much brighter and the colors richer than on the 8UK, therefore the HD performance is more NEC-like....

Just to clarify plazman, cause I thought I heard you say it before - but your slightly better PQ edge for the 8UK is really only for DVD's. I think you said (and others) that the HD PQ of the NEC is superior, which I would have to agree with.

Just think that this should be clarified as most people base their decision on one or the other.

:)
------------------

To clarify.

My viewing habits are more geared towards DVD and movies rather than regular HD Content.

Compared to the 7UY, the NEC is defintiely better than the Panny, since the Panny just isn't bright enough. The 8UK is brightner than the 7UY and HD content is probably very close to the NEC. I personally still feel that the NEC may have a slight edge because the picture has more 'pop', whereas some others feel that the more natural colors of the Panny 8UK may give it the edge.

The whole point is that people have different preferences and both of these are amongst the best :D

Well, I finally managed to see the 50XR5A NEC Plasma today in all it's Glory: DVD, SD content, and HD content from over the air antenna. Myself and a business associate compared it to the Pioneer 50" 505CMX that was on display literally right next to it. ( this is the commercial model of the famed Pioneer 5060.)

I might only be the second person to say this in this entire thread but the Pioneer had a much better picture. I was shocked when I came to this realization. So many people built this thing up and then I was severely let down. I had to let myself trust MY eyes over an internet forum. We even managed to do some basic tweaking on the NEC to try and have it match the Pioneer. It was better, but still a far cry from the Pioneer.

The Pioneer had a better ant-reflective screen and the blacks were superior in every way. Viewing angle was a bit better on the Pionner too but that could just be because the picture was so vivid. The NEC just looked washed out in comparison. If one was not able to compare side by side the NEC would look like a pretty decent panel on it's own.

I got the impression the salesman was trying to push the NEC for some reason and he did say he sells TONS of them. Anyway, in all fairness the NEC has better connectivity options and slightly more pixels but has it's work cut out for it in the imaging department. Both panels were the exact same price. Just thought I'd share a different experience. Right now, I'm not sure what I'll do now. I was so set on the NEC I was ready to walk out with one this afternoon, but that's all changed now. I feel like I'm back to square one. And by the way, in my opinion the panasonics looked by far the worst. Wouldn't even consider them.

Well, I finally managed to see the 50XR5A NEC Plasma today in all it's Glory: DVD, SD content, and HD content from over the air antenna. Myself and a business associate compared it to the Pioneer 50" 505CMX that was on display literally right next to it. ( this is the commercial model of the famed Pioneer 5060.)

I might only be the second person to say this in this entire thread but the Pioneer had a much better picture. I was shocked when I came to this realization. So many people built this thing up and then I was severely let down. I had to let myself trust MY eyes over an internet forum. We even managed to do some basic tweaking on the NEC to try and have it match the Pioneer. It was better, but still a far cry from the Pioneer.

The Pioneer had a better ant-reflective screen and the blacks were superior in every way. Viewing angle was a bit better on the Pionner too but that could just be because the picture was so vivid. The NEC just looked washed out in comparison. If one was not able to compare side by side the NEC would look like a pretty decent panel on it's own.

I got the impression the salesman was trying to push the NEC for some reason and he did say he sells TONS of them. Anyway, in all fairness the NEC has better connectivity options and slightly more pixels but has it's work cut out for it in the imaging department. Both panels were the exact same price. Just thought I'd share a different experience. Right now, I'm not sure what I'll do now. I was so set on the NEC I was ready to walk out with one this afternoon, but that's all changed now. I feel like I'm back to square one. And by the way, in my opinion the panasonics looked by far the worst. Wouldn't even consider them.
-------------

1. I am assuming you meant the Commercial Panasonics 8UK models were 'by far the worst'!

2. Looks like you are not back to square one, but rather it is pretty clear based on what you saw, which set you prefer? :D

3. I have had the pleasure of seeing a commercial Pioneer right next to a commercial Panny right here in our office! Unfortunately, it appears that most people prefer the Panasonics here and an overwhelming majority of them have ended up buying the commercial Pannys for themselves. In fact I don't know of a single person who decided to buy the commercial Pioneer.

Just goes to show, how differently people perceive PQ...

AFAIK, the commercial Pioneer glass are even one generation behind their consumer models, so the Pioneer you saw may even have been using a 5050 rather than the 5060 panel!

Hope you enjoy your Pioneer :p

I think rhoffam is referring to the PCMag review of the 42XR4 which stated the ... to paraphase... The NEC had 3 times better blacks than the Panny... I find that hard/if not impossible to believe... and there was a terrible thrashing thread on that subject... to which some cast then a doubt on the entire review...


PCMag has a real hodge-podge of plasma reviews. They should probably stick with PC's.

Well, I finally managed to see the 50XR5A NEC Plasma today in all it's Glory: DVD, SD content, and HD content from over the air antenna. Myself and a business associate compared it to the Pioneer 50" 505CMX that was on display literally right next to it. ( this is the commercial model of the famed Pioneer 5060.)

.

What I am curious is how you managed to view HD content using over the air antenna. AFAIK neither the XR5 or the Pioneer includes inbuilt HD TV Tuners!

Perhaps the lighting was abnormal? I have never seen the picture look washed out on the XR5!!!!!!

PCMag has a real hodge-podge of plasma reviews. They should probably stick with PC's.
-------------

Hmmmm...I think they (AFAIK it was PC Mag) also found that the Panny was throwing away half of the 720p HD resolution so that SD content looked 50% better than HD! Which is pretty easy to prove wrong by just flipping through your channel and seeing that HD does indeed look better than SD :rolleyes:

There is one thing to say that the Panny (or any other set) does not do a good job of resolving 720p content, but to then say that the resolution on 720p content is worse than standard SD is quite another thing and leads one to question the reliability of the entire review!!!!

What I am curious is how you managed to view HD content using over the air antenna. AFAIK neither the XR5 or the Pioneer includes inbuilt HD TV Tuners!

Perhaps the lighting was abnormal? I have never seen the picture look washed out on the XR5!!!!!!

To be honest, I'm not sure how they had it set up but he definitely said TWICE because he was making a point about it that it was over the air HD. Regarding the lighting, the lights in the room were off. I was not at your average reatil store, I'll leave it at that. Anyway, there's no question that the Pioneer was better than the Panasonic, even the NEC was better by a good shot. I just don't like the panasonic picture quality. It has massive artifacting, seems a bit muddier and softer.

I'd also like to add that SD content looked quite miserable on all of them!
My XBR SD set is looking better and better all the time, but I so want a HDTV for my computer input. DVD's (480P) looked great though.

1. I am assuming you meant the Commercial Panasonics 8UK models were 'by far the worst'!

:confused:
I would assume he thought the consumer models look the worst. The commercial (aka industrial) Pannys aren't in many showrooms. Maybe essogas gives the overall package a higher priority than PQ -- The sleek Pioneers are more impressive that the consumer Panasonic with the power off. Comments like these make "taking a blind leap" even more difficult. :eek:

After scanning this entire thread :p I'm right back where I started: Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK

Summary IMHO: The 50XR5 probably comes close but there isn't nearly enough feedback available to make a smart decision. Even on this long thread there are maybe 20 owners. Outside of AVS Forum I can't find any reviews, ratings, or comparisons. Where can you buy other than Cleveland Plasma? If it's difficult to view and purchase today then what about getting service in 3 years after the NEC/Pioneer merger? IR seems to come up too often. I just can't see taking the "blind leap of faith" when there's a proven alternative that probably costs less.

You have to do what makes you comfortable/happy. If you think the 8UK is where your "sweet spot" is, then I say pull the trigger. Like others have said, at this "level" (NEC/Panny/Pio) of the plasma market I doubt you're going to find a display that completely disappoints. Sure, if I want to nitpick, the XR5A isn't perfect, but it's a damn fine set and everytime I look at it (off or on) I get a ear to ear grin and couldn't be happier in my purchase.

I hear ya on the blind leap of faith. The XR5A for me was a lot of money and I was nervous. But I followed this thread for nearly a month studying everything the other owners posted, and surmised that if I went with the NEC, I couldn't go wrong.

:confused:
I would assume he thought the consumer models look the worst. The commercial (aka industrial) Pannys aren't in many showrooms. Maybe essogas gives the overall package a higher priority than PQ -- The sleek Pioneers are more impressive that the consumer Panasonic with the power off. Comments like these make "taking a blind leap" even more difficult. :eek:

The panasonic we compared but didn't compare it that much because we wrote it off fairly quick was the TH-50PHD8UK. And no, I consider the PICTURE QUALITY to be THE highest priority than the "overall package."

Currently, I'm trying to digest what I saw and learned today. I'm leaning towards the Pioneer 505CMX. It virtually only has one input (DVI) but has the ability to swap out the communication board and the video board (blades as some people refer to them) A company by the name of Extron makes all sorts of boards including a wireless board to stream media from PC's. The guy also said this Pioneer has virtually no IR issues from the get-go. This appeals to me because it was designed to have static images on the screen for extended periods of time and I plan on using mine with my computer.

What I cannot dispute are:

1. NEC does an amazingly poor job of getting their sets to 3rd party reviewers or on display shelves. To call this a consumer plasma and then make it so hard to evaluate is total nonsense (IMHO)!

2. Runco and Fujitsu are not selling to the same market that NEC is. They are high-end displays that they sell exclusively through high end retailers. I doubt people buy Fujitsu and Runco unseen :rolleyes:

3.The 8UK is significantly cheaper than the NEC XR5 (around 700-800). For the difference you get better connectivity and warranty.

1 - I definitely agree there. Granted one of my local boutique A/V stores had a 42XR4 on display (in their receivers room no less!), but I don't know of anywhere else that it can be seen within 50 miles of me. They really need to get it out in the public more.

2 - Probably true, but I'd be willing to bet that the average Runco and Fujitsu shopper could drop the cash on one of them and then not sweat it if they had to/wanted to replace it a year or two down the road. For me, it's an entirely different story.

3 - To me, warranty factors in there right behind picture quality. I mean, no I'm not going to buy a crappy looking set just because it comes with a 10 year warranty, but knowing that the 50XR5A came with 3 years right out of the box definitely helps me sleep better than everyone else's 1 year.

The guy also said this Pioneer has virtually no IR issues from the get-go. This appeals to me because it was designed to have static images on the screen for extended periods of time and I plan on using mine with my computer.

The same could be said for the NEC, Panny, Maxent, ect, ect. Each set is going to behave differently. If you're that concerned about IR, maybe LCD is something you should be considering. IR doesn't bother me, as I know it will eventually go away (not that I've had any real IR to speak of yet), but burn-in is a real concern, and that *can* happen on any plasma, regardless of brand.

To be honest, I'm not sure how they had it set up but he definitely said TWICE because he was making a point about it that it was over the air HD. Regarding the lighting, the lights in the room were off. I was not at your average reatil store, I'll leave it at that. Anyway, there's no question that the Pioneer was better than the Panasonic, even the NEC was better by a good shot. I just don't like the panasonic picture quality. It has massive artifacting, seems a bit muddier and softer.

I'd also like to add that SD content looked quite miserable on all of them!
My XBR SD set is looking better and better all the time, but I so want a HDTV for my computer input. DVD's (480P) looked great though.
-------------------------------------------------

I am not disputing you found and this may well be the case. However, there are so many reviews out there, particularly for the Pioneer 5060 and the Panny 50/500 series. I have never found a single review ever, from any source that ever said that the Pioneer had an outright better picture quality - I have found the reverse to be true on a couple of occassions from reviewers that looked at both sets - Consumer Reports and cnet.com come to mind, even then the consensus was that the PQ are pretty close and comparable.

Interestingly, while many people prefer the PQ of the commercial 8UK Pannys to their consumer counterparts the 50/500 series, almost universally the preference in PQ is in favor of the consumer models for the Pioneers. So what you found is clearly and significantly different from what all other reviewers (excluding yourself) found. Now the overall package of a Pioneer may be more attractive than a bare-bones Panasonic or NEC, but to see massive artifacting and much poorer PQ on the Panasonic (IMHO) seems like an isolated incident.

I have both the NEC XR5 and the Panny 7UY, and with the lights out I can say without any hesitation that the Panny puts forth a more pleasing picture (even for HD), this is because the Panny is isn't as bright as the NEC, the colors are more subdued and the blacks are blacker with less grainiess. Now, I usually watch HD with some light on and the NEC is very pleasing :)

Even if you walk into a BB or Tweeter, and you have the opportunity to see a consumer Panny (since they don't carry the commercial one) next to the Pioneer 5060, the deeper blacks of the Panny and the higher contrast in the Panny over the Pioneer will be evident - even the Tweeter sales guy will have a hard time trying to convince you otherwise. Now if you are watching HD content with lots of colorful baloons, you'll be hard pressed not to like the Pioneer :D

I am not mentioning the XR5 here mainly because there just isn't a lot of 3rd party validation of this model out there. I can say IMHO it has a good image, but I have not been able to compare it closely to a Pioneer 5060. However, many many reviewers have done just that with the Panny and the Pioneer and none have found either the massive artifacting you saw, or that the Pioneer had a clearly better picture. Several ISF calibrationexperts I have spoken to also have said how good the commercial pannys are, and many in fact own them for the ability to show a realistic image....

So what can explain this? Could be the respective feeds, could be the settings, could be just your preference....anyway, thanks for the information :)

The panasonic we compared but didn't compare it that much because we wrote it off fairly quick was the TH-50PHD8UK. And no, I consider the PICTURE QUALITY to be THE highest priority than the "overall package."

Currently, I'm trying to digest what I saw and learned today. I'm leaning towards the Pioneer 505CMX. It virtually only has one input (DVI) but has the ability to swap out the communication board and the video board (blades as some people refer to them) A company by the name of Extron makes all sorts of boards including a wireless board to stream media from PC's. The guy also said this Pioneer has virtually no IR issues from the get-go. This appeals to me because it was designed to have static images on the screen for extended periods of time and I plan on using mine with my computer.
---------------

esso, you may get the Pioneer 5060 for about the same price as the 505CMX after factoring in the stand and needed inputs (I am assuming you would 2-3 component/hdmi input boards).

Know you've looked hard for your set. I hope you're happy with what you bring home :D

I also bought the 50xr5a sight unseen from Chris at Cleveland Plasma and thumbs up to both.

The 505CMX uses a geration of glass 2 times back (5040).

---------------

esso, you may get the Pioneer 5060 for about the same price as the 505CMX after factoring in the stand and needed inputs (I am assuming you would 2-3 component/hdmi input boards).

Know you've looked hard for your set. I hope you're happy with what you bring home :D

Thanks, yes, I might be able to get a 5060 for the price of the 505 after i get the Xporer HD / scaler installed from key digital. It has 4 HDMI ports! But he 505 comes with a stand where I might get it from. I will say the 505 has the worst aesthetics. It looks too industrial. From a design point, Pioneer 5060>NEC>Panasonic>505

As far as my opinion on Panasonic goes, it does have very nice blacks, but there is just something so indescribable that I don't like about them. When I add it all up I just don't like the overall image, the balance of everything just doesn't seem to work for me. And I'll add I don't have any kind of hate-on for Panasonic or any other manufacturer.

And by the way, in my opinion the panasonics looked by far the worst. Wouldn't even consider them.
The panasonic we compared but didn't compare it that much because we wrote it off fairly quick was the TH-50PHD8UK.

Then something is wrong.

Thanks, yes, I might be able to get a 5060 for the price of the 505 after i get the Xporer HD / scaler installed from key digital. It has 4 HDMI ports! But he 505 comes with a stand where I might get it from. I will say the 505 has the worst aesthetics. It looks too industrial. From a design point, Pioneer 5060>NEC>Panasonic>505

As far as my opinion on Panasonic goes, it does have very nice blacks, but there is just something so indescribable that I don't like about them. When I add it all up I just don't like the overall image, the balance of everything just doesn't seem to work for me. And I'll add I don't have any kind of hate-on for Panasonic or any other manufacturer.
-------
I was beaten to it, but as long as you remember that the 505CMX uses an older generation panel than the current 5060. On paper, the 5060 has better blacks, contrast and brightness than the 505CMX!

So at the same price, you are definitely getting more value from the 5060 than the 505CMX (JMHO).

-------
I was beaten to it, but as long as you remember that the 505CMX uses an older generation panel than the current 5060. On paper, the 5060 has better blacks, contrast and brightness than the 505CMX!

So at the same price, you are definitely getting more value from the 5060 than the 505CMX (JMHO).

How do we know it uses older glass? Has Pioneer themselves said this or just speculation? The 505 is a new model for this year...Link please if you have one.

How do we know it uses older glass? Has Pioneer themselves said this or just speculation? The 505 is a new model for this year...Link please if you have one.

Now, based on Pioneers own site my assumption is that the difference in brightness is due to different panels being used. In fact 1000cd/m is the same level of brightness as the 5040/5050 sets. So at the very least they are not identical in terms of PQ!

Also, for comparison purposes the Panny 8UK has (on paper) a higher color resolution than the CMX since it has more than twice the grey scale and displayable colors. The XR5 if I remember correctly has the same grey scale as the Panny, while twice the color resolution. In HD content, the brilliant color resolution of the XR5 is evident!

Here are the basic specs about these models.

Specs on the 505CMX:

Color Resolution: 1024 grey scale, 1.07 billion colors
Brightness: 1000cd/m²(white peak)


Specs on the 5060

High-Definition Resolution WXGA (1280 x 768)
Brightness 1,100 Cd/m
Contrast 4000:1
Digital Chroma Decoder 10-bit

Specs on Panny 8UK
Displayable Colors (billions) 3.62 (full time), 8.58 (maximum)
Up to 2,048 shades of gradation (4,096 shades via HDMI or DVI connection) -
Contrast Ratio Up to 3000:1
14-bit signal processing provide

How do we know it uses older glass? Has Pioneer themselves said this or just speculation? The 505 is a new model for this year...Link please if you have one.

This is common knowledge. The 505CMX uses a glass two generations back (5040). Do a search on the forum to find the specifics.

[QUOTE=plazman]-------------------------------------------------


I had the 8uk a while back and returned it, the local local shop here had the new 60u and he offered to exchange it, after playing with it for a while it just didn' t do for me, yea great blacks but man there is more to life :) Maybe because that day they had the elite on the left of it and the fuji on the right, the elite totally outshined the panasonic imo, the channel was on inhd1 and the elite gave a realistic, bright colors, balanced picture, very smooth, I had the remotes and tried different settings on all the displays. My first choice was the fuji
but like the panasonic seemed a little short of the elite, maybe the silver frame toke some away, the reason why I settled on the nec was the fact that one of the tech I know installed some of them in a hotel lobby and said that scaler of the nec was a little better plus reading the tread here. My next door neighbor saw my nec and wanted to get one but wasn't confortable with online purchase, we went to magnolia and although the salesman was pushing the panasonic his eyes were glued to the elite and paid maybe a little more then a thou to get it. We had the nec and the elite side by side and we agreed that the pq on both were very very close, edge to the elite in sd, but the nec shined with the toshiba hddvd :)

A rare Magnolia Sales Rep will recommend a Panny 60U over a Pio Elite! An even rarer Magnolia (at least where I live) will carry a Panny 60U.

Usually the 60U are with the Pio 5060, and not near the Elites. Also, Elites sell for 2,500 above a Panny 60U, not 1K, so your friend was very very lucky! At that price difference I would take the Elite Pio.

When did you get the NEC? I've had mine for a couple of months now, and like it - but would not return a Panny 8UK for it!

Just wanted to confirm something.

I want to scale/zoom 4:3 content that is sent in via an HD signal on the HDMI connection. Is this possible? I have a media center PC hwere i record a lot of 4:3 content from SDTV. I do'nt want burn-in so would love to scale the 4:3 to 16:9 using some zoom mode.

Just wanted to confirm something.

I want to scale/zoom 4:3 content that is sent in via an HD signal on the HDMI connection. Is this possible? I have a media center PC hwere i record a lot of 4:3 content from SDTV. I do'nt want burn-in so would love to scale the 4:3 to 16:9 using some zoom mode.


Yep, zoom works just fine for my HTPC via HDMI.

[QUOTE=plazman]-------------------------------------------------


I had the 8uk a while back and returned it, the local local shop here had the new 60u and he offered to exchange it, after playing with it for a while it just didn' t do for me, yea great blacks but man there is more to life :) Maybe because that day they had the elite on the left of it and the fuji on the right, the elite totally outshined the panasonic imo, the channel was on inhd1 and the elite gave a realistic, bright colors, balanced picture, very smooth, I had the remotes and tried different settings on all the displays. My first choice was the fuji
but like the panasonic seemed a little short of the elite, maybe the silver frame toke some away, the reason why I settled on the nec was the fact that one of the tech I know installed some of them in a hotel lobby and said that scaler of the nec was a little better plus reading the tread here. My next door neighbor saw my nec and wanted to get one but wasn't confortable with online purchase, we went to magnolia and although the salesman was pushing the panasonic his eyes were glued to the elite and paid maybe a little more then a thou to get it. We had the nec and the elite side by side and we agreed that the pq on both were very very close, edge to the elite in sd, but the nec shined with the toshiba hddvd :)

QUOTE]

Looks like you returned the Panny in Dec and the 60U wasn't even out! Also, looks like you got the Sony XBR for the Panny!!!

The local shop offered to exchange the Panny 8UK for the 60U, when most local shops will not carry the 8UK - was it a personal favor kind of thing? :rolleyes:

A little jog to the memory :rolleyes:

12-24-05, 06:13 PM #20 (Print)
cirob
Member


Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 51 As always, use your eyes to determine the best technology for you.[/

I did that's why I returned the panasonic for the sony xbr

This is common knowledge. The 505CMX uses a glass two generations back (5040). Do a search on the forum to find the specifics. Actually the Pioneer 505 is one generation back. 50---stands for 50" and 5--stands for fifth generation (5050).

I know the NEC 50XR5A would be my first choice however for second the Pioneer PDP-505CMX is an excellent choice. ( lets face it these monitors are almost brothers now) I know if I get this unit I would definetlly get the KEY DIGITAL CARD HERE (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=HDXplorer&productname=) This card also has a scaler on board to make this unit have an Elite picture quality, per Key Digital.

http://www.keydigital.com/images/Video%20Processors/HD_Xplorer_Front_a.jpg (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=HDXplorer&productname=)

^^^^^Looks pretty sweet!

The PDP-505CMX may be the 5th generation of the commercial PDP but is uses an older generation glass. Pioneer always does this with their commercial line. Look for yourself, the specs on the 505CMX glass match exactly the specs of the 5040HD. I will try and find the article for you to read.

Hi,

I just bought a brand new NEC 42XR4. picture quality is stunning !!
The only problem I'm experiencing is that when looking at the TV from the side and light is reflected on it (even when the TV is off) - I see these purple stains all over the TV.

I complained to the shop that sold me the Tv and they replaced it with a brand new one - the same spots appear there too.

Is it normal? this means that when watching TV on daytime and light is reflected from outside the window - I see stains on dark locations of the picture.

Other 42XR4 owners - do you experience the same issue when light is reflected over dark image locations?

Please help.... :confused:

Actually the Pioneer 505 is one generation back. 50---stands for 50" and 5--stands for fifth generation (5050).

I know the NEC 50XR5A would be my first choice however for second the Pioneer PDP-505CMX is an excellent choice. ( lets face it these monitors are almost brothers now) I know if I get this unit I would definetlly get the KEY DIGITAL CARD HERE (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=HDXplorer&productname=) This card also has a scaler on board to make this unit have an Elite picture quality, per Key Digital.

http://www.keydigital.com/images/Video%20Processors/HD_Xplorer_Front_a.jpg (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=HDXplorer&productname=)
-----------
This recommendation makes sense when you want a Pio that looks closest to the XR5. Otherwise there is no reason not to pick a Pio 5060 over the 505 CMX.

The HD Xplorer isn't cheap: The HD Xplorer(TM) by Key Digital(R) is available now, with an MSRP of $1,599. http://www.keydigital.com (CORRECTION) I see that actual street price is closer to half....

Even with the excellent scaler you are left with a possibly inferior panel (compared to the latest generation Pios)

This makes the CMX (after you add in the stand) fairly more expensive than the XR5!

I would think very hard before going the route of the CMX + HD Explorer route - from a cost value perspective at least :eek:

So with the much lower cost of the HD Xplorer, the CMX may indeed make sense :)

Your not even close on the street price of that card !

Your not even close on the street price of that card !
-----------

Chris, thanks for correcting me - I was looking at MSRP + price quoted by another vendor!

The CMX street price with the card (as pointed out by Chirs) is indeed in the same range as the XR5.

I've heard a lot of good things about the Xplorer card, so the CMX is definitely a viable alternative. So if you don't need the speakers and media box and finish of the 5060, the CMX (or XR5) are worthy lower cost alternatives.

In defense of the the CMX, with the Xplorer card it does have a potent processor, at par probably with the best, especially if it is the same as the isynch.

I know I am very happy with my 50" NEC :)

I hate mine, anyone wanna buy it? ;) :D

Counting the minutes until I can get home and watch some movies...... :cool:

Hi Everyone. I’ve been monitoring this forum for several months and I need a little help. I’m driving myself just about insane trying to decide on a 42 inch plasma TV but I think I’ve narrowed it down to the Pioneer Elite 930 or the NEC 42XR4.

It will be our main TV, be used for SD TV, DVD, Cable box, TIVO, and a PC display to show video clips and pictures of the kids, and to view iTunes for music selection

I like everything about the pioneer except: HDMI port does not support PC signal AND the VGA port is on the front of the media box… ugly. I’ve seen this unit and think the picture and the esthetics are beautiful. I don’t want a big fat VGA cable sticking out the front of my entertainment center.

Regarding the NEC, my purchase would be essentially sight unseen, there is a local store that has last year’s NEC 42 inch but says he won’t be displaying the 42XR4.

I have a couple questions…

Fan noise – the pioneer has no fan. Is the fan noticeable? I’m sure watching a nice surround sound movie it’s not, but how about when you are watching the Today show?

PC signal. I was able to feed a PC signal from my 1024x768 laptop into the NEC at the store via VGA. Looked great I think. But to fill the whole screen, it was stretched. That’s fine for web surfing but not for showing baby pictures to the family. I know you can display 1024x768 with bars on the side. My question is, if you display WXGA, does it fill the whole screen nicely with no bars and no stretch?

Does anyone have a PC hooked up via a DVI to HDMI cable and if so, is it a superior picture to the VGA input? Should I even care if the HDMI connection is PC compatible?

I see burn-in discussion popping up. Is this a greater concern with this display over the Pioneer? (I know to a degree it’s an issue with all)

Does anyone have any pictures they can post of their NEC installation on a wall. I’m not crazy about the silver bezel and I can’t seem to find any pictures of the monitor from the side so I can see how wide it is.

Thank you all for any help and advice you can give.

-----------

Chris, thanks for correcting me - I was looking at MSRP + price quoted by another vendor!

The CMX street price with the card (as pointed out by Chirs) is indeed in the same range as the XR5.

I've heard a lot of good things about the Xplorer card, so the CMX is definitely a viable alternative. So if you don't need the speakers and media box and finish of the 5060, the CMX (or XR5) are worthy lower cost alternatives.

In defense of the the CMX, with the Xplorer card it does have a potent processor, at par probably with the best, especially if it is the same as the isynch.

Chris at Cleveland Plasma is the third person today that has said the 505 with teh key digital card is near elite PQ. The other fellow was erik an installer that has chimed in onthis thread, and the third was another reseller here in Canada.

All I can say is even WITHOUT the Key digital card,I preffered the 505CMX over the NEC... (to my eyes and my associate's eyes anyway) This combination however, with the card, is 600 Canadian more than the NEC, 1600 canadian cheaper than the 5060 (which is sold out everywhere I look), and 2500 Canadian cheaper than the Elite. My course of action looks pretty clear at the moment...

I have a 61XR4 so not a direct answer, but some apply.


I have a couple questions…

Fan noise – the pioneer has no fan. Is the fan noticeable? I’m sure watching a nice surround sound movie it’s not, but how about when you are watching the Today show?
Mine has 4 great big honking fans in it. They are for all intents and purposes completely silent.


PC signal. I was able to feed a PC signal from my 1024x768 laptop into the NEC at the store via VGA. Looked great I think. But to fill the whole screen, it was stretched. That’s fine for web surfing but not for showing baby pictures to the family. I know you can display 1024x768 with bars on the side. My question is, if you display WXGA, does it fill the whole screen nicely with no bars and no stretch?


Can't help with this one since the 61 has square pixels so it's a 1:1 map for the desktop.


Does anyone have a PC hooked up via a DVI to HDMI cable and if so, is it a superior picture to the VGA input? Should I even care if the HDMI connection is PC compatible?


I have tried both. DVI/HDMI is better. Specifically there is no evidence of ringing on sharp edges. For the 1365x768 panels you need a newer video card to get 1:1 mapping via HDMI.


I see burn-in discussion popping up. Is this a greater concern with this display over the Pioneer? (I know to a degree it’s an issue with all)


If you follow the general guidelines for break in, IR and burn-in are a non issue. My NEC gets a mix of 4:3 SD, 16:9 HDTV, 2.35:1 DVDs, Xbox 360, etc.

Fan noise – the pioneer has no fan. Is the fan noticeable? I’m sure watching a nice surround sound movie it’s not, but how about when you are watching the Today show?



The Pio media box has a fan if I'm not mistaken and I've heard people complain about the noise. My XR5 fans are barely audible but not objectionable IMO. It's probably a wash and therefore not a factor to use in your decision making.

jlshaw: I have a 42xr4 and can answer one of your questions. I hear absolutely no fan noise at all.

Regarding IR, I have seen none. I watch primarily HD and am careful not to leave a menu onscreen for a long period of time.

[QUOTE=plazman][QUOTE=cirob]

QUOTE]

Looks like you returned the Panny in Dec and the 60U wasn't even out! Also, looks like you got the Sony XBR for the Panny!!!

The local shop offered to exchange the Panny 8UK for the 60U, when most local shops will not carry the 8UK - was it a personal favor kind of thing? :rolleyes:

A little jog to the memory :rolleyes:

12-24-05, 06:13 PM #20 (Print)
cirob
Member


Join Date: Oct 2005


The shop wanted to exchange for another panasonic maybe the 50 or 500u don't know ,( and yes I purchased a sony for my daughter room not to replace the plasma, my kid went on to college and no way she was taking the tv with her), sold it before the nec arrived. The shop mentioned the upcoming 60u, I wasn't interested I don't care for panasonic. It must be nice to have time of day to search people post hystory I am general contractor I do residential and commercial, I am not That sophisticated never finished highschool (can you tell from my writing :) ) don't have a web site and I get confused easily :D :eek: , 5060 500u 60u, I have a headache already :) but I employ 32 people plus equipment and keep them busy year around, you don't know me from a hole in the wall,roll eyes as much as you want, this is a hobby if I am gonna stress over it then it becomes work
have a nice day

[QUOTE=plazman][QUOTE=cirob]

QUOTE]

Looks like you returned the Panny in Dec and the 60U wasn't even out! Also, looks like you got the Sony XBR for the Panny!!!

The local shop offered to exchange the Panny 8UK for the 60U, when most local shops will not carry the 8UK - was it a personal favor kind of thing? :rolleyes:

A little jog to the memory :rolleyes:

12-24-05, 06:13 PM #20 (Print)
cirob
Member


Join Date: Oct 2005


The shop wanted to exchange for another panasonic maybe the 50 or 500u don't know ,( and yes I purchased a sony for my daughter room not to replace the plasma, my kid went on to college and no way she was taking the tv with her), sold it before the nec arrived. The shop mentioned the upcoming 60u, I wasn't interested I don't care for panasonic. It must be nice to have time of day to search people post hystory I am general contractor I do residential and commercial, I am not That sophisticated never finished highschool (can you tell from my writing :) ) don't have a web site and I get confused easily :D :eek: , 5060 500u 60u, I have a headache already :) but I employ 32 people plus equipment and keep them busy year around, you don't know me from a hole in the wall,roll eyes as much as you want, this is a hobby if I am gonna stress over it then it becomes work
have a nice day
-----------

Not sure what you are implying? I was pointing out what appeared to be a basic inconsistency. Since this is a site where people come to for advice and looking for honest opinions, I did a quick check since your comments did not seems to make complete sense :rolleyes:

Not that it's related to this thread in any way, but I am an executive in a high-tech company and so am thankfully also contributing to the economy and well being of our country :)

Cheers :p

Chris at Cleveland Plasma is the third person today that has said the 505 with teh key digital card is near elite PQ. The other fellow was erik an installer that has chimed in onthis thread, and the third was another reseller here in Canada.

All I can say is even WITHOUT the Key digital card,I preffered the 505CMX over the NEC... (to my eyes and my associate's eyes anyway) This combination however, with the card, is 600 Canadian more than the NEC, 1600 canadian cheaper than the 5060 (which is sold out everywhere I look), and 2500 Canadian cheaper than the Elite. My course of action looks pretty clear at the moment...
------------

This afternoon I spoke to a very reliable high-end reseller/calibrator that I have come to know recently about the comments here about the CMX - a couple of hours ago. In general he is very pro Panny commercial (8UK), but he has done several installations (and ISF calibrations) and is pretty honest (IMHO). He said that with calibration he found that the CMX (without the Xplorer board) and the Panny 8UK have almost identical picture characteristics with slight edge on contrast to the Panny. Now since he is predisposed to be pro Panny, I would read this as meaning the CMX is as good if not better than the 8UK! With the Xplorer I would assume the CMX would be a no contest (totally my assumption since he didn't say how much better a fully calibrated Xplorer based CMX would be when compared to a fully calibrated regular CMX)

He also said that he has installed the NEC XM5 (not the XR5 yet) and feels the CMX is a better panel for home viewing purposes since he finds the image quality on the NEC to be too soft, the black levels are inadequate and the panel itself too reflective! I haven't seen an XM5 to be able to see if I agree with this, but isn't the XM5 the same as the XR5?

Anyway, thought I'd pass that along (one data point)....guess the CMX in our conference room must be one poorly calibrated set! So I apologize for initially assuming that the CMX could possibly not be in the same league as the other...

Well I certailly do not agree with that installer. The NEC is an excellent unit and is probably better without a dought than the 505CMX without the card. With the card it is a toss up, however we all know what I have on my wall.

http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0808.JPG

The NEC XR and XM have the same PQ.

Well I certailly do not agree with that installer. The NEC is an excellent unit and is probably better without a dought than the 505CMX without the card. With the card it is a toss up, however we all know what I have on my wall.


The NEC XR and XM have the same PQ.

I am glad to hear that since the CMX I have seen does not touch either my Panny or NEC for image quality (JMHO). Was passing on what one person told me....

The Pannys are by far the most talked about and highly regarded (popular) commercial plasma out there, so I was curious when the CMX topic came up :)

Also, we have at least one other person who preferred the CMX to both the Panny and the NEC!