NEC new plasma thread!!! - 42xr4, 50xr5, 61xr4 [Text View] - Page 12

plazman

04-29-06, 10:29 AM

In all seriousness, I’ve been searching for a 50”+ screen and my candidates are…
50”/58” Panasonics
50”/61”Pioneers
50” NEC
55” Hitachi
Right now, in this order. My formula being: Price vs Performance vs Size vs Features vs Appearance.
Any input you have, I’d love to hear it.
Thanks,
Mike

Pioneer all the way, high priced yes but what's a thou when you talking best pq :) When I was at magnolia with my neighbor the salesman said that one of the reason pioneer is higher is the parts are made by them, other brands use oem stuff from all over, now I don't know how true this is I do know that this salesman was pushing the panasonic when he saw that the man had his eyes glued to the elite he changed tactics. I can't wait to see the new 1080p display I ear next month:)[/QUOTE]
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Samsung, LG, Panasonic and NEC (XR5 for now) all make 100% of their own components. On the other hand, Pioneer OEMs their Media Receiver from Sharp - so the sales guy at Magnolia (not surprising) does not know what he is talking about!

Pioneers are historically more expensive because of their glass manufacturing process, which is one reason why they acquired NEC - to reduce their costs of manufacturing their panels. I would assume that the upcoming Pioneers will incorporate the NEC glass manufacturing process along with getting rid of the media box (expect for the Elite - maybe).

I bet the sales guy was pushing the Panasonic because they have them in stock and the Pioneers are out of stock (now). They were doing just the reverse around 2 months ago.....

Most Magnolia (based on my experience) will not put a Panny 60U next to an Elite, or for that matter a 5060 next to an Elite. Tweeter OTOH will put the Panasonics 60U/50U right next to an Elite for side-by-side comparison. You're lucky to have found a Magnolia that does this. Since my opinion is that most customers will not be able to justify the 2,500 price difference (in a BB, Magnolia) between a 50 inch Panny and the Elite, unless the Panny was in 'torch' mode.

I am kinda wishing I had held out for the 58 inch - it seems to be the perfect size for my living room. May be I'll see if I can trade up for my Panny 7UY when the 58' comes out :p

csundbom

04-29-06, 10:43 AM

I have an 42XR4 that I am extremely happy with.

I do notice slight colour bleeding on bright colours (mainly reds and blues) and logo's. What I find interesting is that the logo's only bleed to the left side of the logo!

The input source is SD sattelite signal. It is a PAL feed.

Does anyone know what causes this and how I can correct it? I don't see any other posts where people are experiencing the same problems with their NEC's.

I have not checked on DVD if I get the same but will check.

Thanks,

Guy
Sounds like a Y/C delay problem. The color information is not arriving at the same time as the luminance information, so they don't overlap right. It could be a problem with the source or the display. Most likely a source problem if you're not seeing it on DVD. The way component video data works, you will only see this with red and blue, never with green, since the green data is derived from the luma signal. NEC should have a control to adjust Y/C delay somewhere, otherwise you will need an external scaler to correct it.

Best,
Carl

csundbom

04-29-06, 10:51 AM

---------------------

These are from a 42 inch commercial Panny with Standard Def - but impresssive nonetheless!

http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/screen_shots_gallery/
Yes, they are better but still noisy. It's hard to take good pictures from a plasma, since the pixels flicker a lot and you will only capture a slice of the flickering. Here are some good screen-shots from a front projector (Ruby):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7296933&&#post7296933

plazman

04-29-06, 12:09 PM

Yes, they are better but still noisy. It's hard to take good pictures from a plasma, since the pixels flicker a lot and you will only capture a slice of the flickering. Here are some good screen-shots from a front projector (Ruby):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7296933&&#post7296933
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These are definitely in a different league (both picture and pricewise from a 42 inch Panny :D ).

I am assuming the original set-up (that produced these results) matches a an external video processor with the Ruby. This is close to reference quality for HT (at least based on details that can be seen in a screenshot)....

plazman

04-29-06, 12:47 PM

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_2/nec-42xr4-plasma-tv-4-2006-part-1.html

Conclusions

Overall, this is an impressive display by NEC. The two main faults I found with it were the lack of native resolution (dot by dot) support at rates other than 60 Hz (72 Hz, 50 Hz, and 75 Hz would have been a pleasant surprise), and the high amount of grain that appears due to the pixel modulation technique that NEC is using on this particular panel.

For those who are looking for additional third pary validation

Steve L

04-29-06, 12:54 PM

Forgive me if a pointer to Ofer Lafor's review has already been posted, but I couldn't find one after quick scan of this thread.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_2/nec-42xr4-plasma-tv-4-2006-part-1.html

He liked it a lot, with a couple of caveats:

"Overall, this is an impressive display by NEC. The two main faults I found with it were the lack of native resolution (dot by dot) support at rates other than 60 Hz (72 Hz, 50 Hz, and 75 Hz would have been a pleasant surprise), and the high amount of grain that appears due to the pixel modulation technique that NEC is using on this particular panel."

For those that don't know him, Ofer is the moderator of the AVS Video Processor forum.

/steve

plazman

04-29-06, 01:12 PM

csundbom

04-29-06, 01:16 PM

-----------

These are definitely in a different league (both picture and pricewise from a 42 inch Panny :D ).

I am assuming the original set-up (that produced these results) matches a an external video processor with the Ruby. This is close to reference quality for HT (at least based on details that can be seen in a screenshot)....
The guy lists a Gennum VXP scaler as part of his setup, so that's most likely the case. I calibrated a Ruby a couple of weeks ago, and it didn't like 480i/480p signals at all, causing massive edge enhancement and ghosting artifacts. It could all be fixed in the service menu, but it's much better to feed a display its native resolution whenever possible.

But I'm getting off topic here...

Back on topic: I will be calibrating my first 42xr4 in a month or so and will post my findings here. I will also get an opportunity to evaluate it with/without an external scaler at the same time.

Best,
Carl

gcp

04-29-06, 01:21 PM

Sounds like a Y/C delay problem. The color information is not arriving at the same time as the luminance information, so they don't overlap right. It could be a problem with the source or the display. Most likely a source problem if you're not seeing it on DVD. The way component video data works, you will only see this with red and blue, never with green, since the green data is derived from the luma signal. NEC should have a control to adjust Y/C delay somewhere, otherwise you will need an external scaler to correct it.

Best,
Carl
Hi Carl,

Thanks for the feedback.

Does anyone in this forum know if the NEC42XR4 has a Y/C delay adjustment setting in the service menu?

If so how would one set it?

Thanks,

Guy

plazman

04-29-06, 01:21 PM

The guy lists a Gennum VXP scaler as part of his setup, so that's most likely the case. I calibrated a Ruby a couple of weeks ago, and it didn't like 480i/480p signals at all, causing massive edge enhancement and ghosting artifacts. It could all be fixed in the service menu, but it's much better to feed a display its native resolution whenever possible.

But I'm getting off topic here...

Back on topic: I will be calibrating my first 42xr4 in a month or so and will post my findings here. I will also get an opportunity to evaluate it with/without an external scaler at the same time.

Best,
Carl

Any feedback (positive or negative) on experiences with either XR5 or Panny 8UK?

Cheers

gcp

04-29-06, 01:52 PM

Conclusions

Overall, this is an impressive display by NEC. The two main faults I found with it were the lack of native resolution (dot by dot) support at rates other than 60 Hz (72 Hz, 50 Hz, and 75 Hz would have been a pleasant surprise), and the high amount of grain that appears due to the pixel modulation technique that NEC is using on this particular panel.

For those who are looking for additional third pary validation[/QUOTE]

I clearly noticed the picture grain from up close on my xr4 and was quite disappointed in it.

I am however able to see a significant reduction of this phenomenon over the first 100 hours of use. It is now barely noticeable (you have to be very close) and will probably diminish even further. I continue to be amazed at how the panel picture continues to improve as the usage hours increase. I wonder how many hours the review panel had on it?

I also read elsewhere in this forum someone mentioning a reflective purple tinge coming off of the glass. My panel also had this purple tinge when purchased but it has now disappeared after 100 hours use.

These two observations says a lot about the run-in period and how significant it is with regard to pq.

BOSS10L

04-29-06, 02:43 PM

I think some people are taking this all too far. I'm sure that any display, no matter what, will have some imperfections if you look hard enough. If people want to go around nit-picking everything to the point that they are so unhappy that they never make a decision, or second-guess themselves into oblivion, then go ahead.

Me? I'm enjoying my XR5.

cirob

04-29-06, 05:53 PM

BOSS10L

04-29-06, 08:11 PM

Agreed BOSS, nobody watches tv 2" from the glass anyway :) there is more to life I"ll tell you we went to brunch at foxy in providence for legs and eggs now THAT IS HIGH definition :D :D What a PQ :D

I am watchin in the lion's den on discovery with my boy, beatiful.

Probably not, but there are enough people out there that spit, sputter and fret enough that they aren't reveling in the fact that they are lucky enough to be chosing between such fine displays.

It'd be akin to me saying "Well, ya know those tires on that Mustang didn't hook on the track as well as I would have liked" after I just made a sub-9 second 1/4 mile pass. Sure, some passes are better than others, but anything quicker than 10 seconds is butter in my book.

I'm stuck at work right now until 11pm (job#2). I'd rather be home watching SD on a 13" B&W CRT with my boys right now. Be glad for what we have gents, be glad for what we have.....

shane55

04-29-06, 09:21 PM

Please, oh please tell me that these two items have absolutely NOTHING in common.

Let me back up a bit. I have been vascillating between the NEC and the Panny 8UK. So I saw the 8UK on the Costco website and bought it. It was due last Monday and never showed up. Several days of calls and aggrivation and ... it had obviously been stolen somewhere along the way. Way to go kids!

So I thought, screw it... I'm gonna git me one of them thar Pioneers that Costco carries in their store. I did... it is the Pioneer PDP-42A3HD. I figured... How wrong can I go? Pio's are rated so highly, this has gotta be good.

Brought it home last night and I have spent most of last night and today calibrating and testing and trying to make it watchable. Does that give away the gist of this post?

First the good:
I thought that the PQ off my Comcast HD box (via HDMI 1080i) was good. I had Leno and Letterman on, and they looked stunning! Then just for fun, I tuned to them OTA. Oh my goodness, the image was in another league. Really. INHD looks very good as does just about anything that is well-lit... like a basketball game, or golf, or volleyball. The ATSC tuner pulled in more channels than I knew existed, killer! Ok so this thing can do bright images very well. Oh... and the color is generally good (more on that later).

Thats where the positive comments end.

This thing has no blacks. It barely has dark greys. It has no detail in the shadows. None. I have tried every setting (Standard, Movie, torch... etc). Every color temp, every point along the Brightness and Contrast sliders. Regardless of the source, OTA, Cable HD, DVD @ 480P via component... it has blocky, noisy 'blacks' until you turn it down so far that it's just mud and everything that is even moderately low-tone looses ALL detail. :eek:

So just for fun, after dialing it in as well as I possibly could (I don't even want to talk about a Pluge test!) I threw on a couple movie tests. 5th Element Superbit, Spiderman2 Superbit, Underworld Superbit... etc. Brightly-lit scenes were, of course very nice, but how many of them are there in Underworld? Ugh... it was laughably awful. :o

5th Element looked gorgeous... except for anywhere there was a shadow. Yuk.
Same with Spiderman2 and the other discs I put in. Dark hair was splotchy and... oh yeah, here is where I tell you about 'color'. Well lit, everything looks good. Shadows are GREEN, and no adjustment even slightly mitigates that. Oh my. Green and macroblocked and noisy and just awful. Dark 5-o'clock shadows are green.

If all you do is watch HD sports, this is the PDP for you. If you seriously watch ANYTHING else, it's a frustrating mess.

So why do I post this here? First, it's a 42" Pioneer. That makes me wonder if it's the same glass as the NEC's ('cause Pio had been selling 43's). Also, if this is what I would find in an NEC that I buy, it would fly out the window faster than my money. ;)

So... Please, tell me that this thing has nothing to do with the NEC's. When I return it (thankfully it's a Costco purchase, and the salesman said, "If for ANY reason you are not completely satisfied, bring it back", I will need to get something, and I'm back to Panny 8UK (or upcoming 9UK), vs. the NEC. :confused:

Sorry for the extended rant - review.

cheers

shane

cpcat

04-30-06, 12:48 AM

cirob

04-30-06, 06:31 AM

cpcat

04-30-06, 08:29 AM

In the setup menu on the A1, I'm using "extended" for blacks. The reason is that with that setting my setup seemed identical to my previous LG 3510a and D* box and so remains consistent with settings I've posted here as well. Otherwise, I would've needed to lower the brightness setting. This seems to suggest at least some range of consistency among manufacturers, at least between LG and Toshiba that is. :)

The A1 doesn't pass BTB (blacker than black) through its HDMI out so you need to use AVIA or another disc which does not require it to set black level. This isn't as big of a deal as some would have you believe and it certainly doesn't seem to effect performance.

Also, in the picture setup menu on the A1, I would put the mode on "film" as that's the vast majority of what you'll be watching. Make sure on the NEC "Cinema" mode is "on".

I watched a little bit of Nemo during setup just because I was looking at THX optimizer, but I haven't really watched enough SD material to even give an initial impression yet.

plazman

04-30-06, 02:30 PM

plazman

04-30-06, 02:36 PM

Well I got the HD-A1 and took everything up a few notches today. The Last Samurai and Phantom of the Opera are the two titles I have so far. All I can say is it's so nice to finally have a real HD source. :) I now have a benchmark signal with which I can compare. POTO has almost zero noise/artifacting. Even standing close up and looking into very dark backgrounds the only noise is the fine dithering of above black.

Sorry Tony, I know I told you I planned to wait for BD. Just couldn't wait anymore.
----------------------------

cpcat, congratuations! Have you tried to upconvert regular DVD via the HD-A1. I've heard that you can get near HD quality? I saw the images of last Samurai that you posted - very impressive, I was looking for some graininess on your picture, it looked very very tight! Was that on your XR5?

Curious if A1 does a good job with regular DVD on the XR5?

cpcat

04-30-06, 02:46 PM

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cpcat, congratuations! Have you tried to upconvert regular DVD via the HD-A1. I've heard that you can get near HD quality? I saw the images of last Samurai that you posted - very impressive, I was looking for some graininess on your picture, it looked very very tight! Was that on your XR5?

Curious if A1 does a good job with regular DVD on the XR5?

I wish. That was on rdjam's JVC H2K projector with diagonals measured in feet. :) That makes it all the more impressive to me.

I haven't watched one regular DVD yet. I saw a little of Nemo just by accident really because I was looking at THX optimizer. I'll try to pop a few in today and see.

plazman

04-30-06, 02:55 PM

BOSS10L

04-30-06, 03:11 PM

Ho-lee-S^%T.....

I just finally got off my arse and connected my D* STB to the XR5 via HDMI.

D* SDTV imperfections are all but gone.....

Switched over to TNT HD - Blade II showing. I nearly had to change my shorts.

All digital connection = "teh win"

And FWIW, yes, there is a button I needed to press on my D* STB to get the HDMI cable to work. DOH! :D

sea157

04-30-06, 03:31 PM

Korszo

04-30-06, 04:01 PM

Just noticed the fans on my 42XR4 are not running. Never really checked this before. I have the display around 7 weeks. Are the fans temperature controlled or do I have a problem?

TIA ...

RK

dfdtruckie

04-30-06, 04:02 PM

BOSS10L

04-30-06, 04:11 PM

What button did you have to push?

Oddly enough "Output Mode" <sheepish grin> :o

BOSS10L

04-30-06, 04:13 PM

JUST GOT IT!!!!! I just received my new 42xr4a from Chris @cleveland and the shippers delivered it today (a Sunday). I'm consolidating all my gear in one area in my basement and considering hooking up a media center(mac mini). Any suggestions pos or neg would be great. What is the max distance that I can connect an HDMI cable?

Congrats! Monoprice has HDMI and DVI to HDMI cables in lengths up to 100ft, so I would say 100ft. Of course as you probably know, the longer the distance, the more chance there is for signal degradation.

plazman

04-30-06, 04:24 PM

Good for on the A1, the only movie I watched in hd is serenity and I was impressed, I bought doom from amazon can't wait till it gets here, a lot of titles are coming this summer, I want T2 :)
What you think of sd dvd so far, i watched match point last night at 1080i and looked great, in setup do you have blacks on or off. To avoid the black bars on some dvd's sometimes I set the resolution to 480p and still get a good picture I don't like the zoom or stadium look.
Enjoy your player.
--------------------

I saw T2 on a BluRay demo at the Sony store, so not sure if it will be on HD DVD as well!

I think I've finally been overcome. I'll try and get an XA1 tomorrow or A1 if that is not available. I am leaning towards the XA1 mainly for the 5.1 sound. Heard the A1 was 2 channels only, is that right? I was waiting for the BluRay, but August seems really far off....too much waiting :eek:

My connection will probably be HDMI (or may be component) input to display and digital audio out to receiver. XA 1 or A1? I've heard the HD player is even very good via component!

I'll be selling my Denon 1920 DVD player for this upgrade :)

Oppo v. HD DVD....no contest (I would expect)!

cpcat

04-30-06, 05:18 PM

--------------------

I saw T2 on a BluRay demo at the Sony store, so not sure if it will be on HD DVD as well!

I think I've finally been overcome. I'll try and get an XA1 tomorrow or A1 if that is not available. I am leaning towards the XA1 mainly for the 5.1 sound. Heard the A1 was 2 channels only, is that right? I was waiting for the BluRay, but August seems really far off....too much waiting :eek:

My connection will probably be HDMI (or may be component) input to display and digital audio out to receiver. XA 1 or A1? I've heard the HD player is even very good via component!

I'll be selling my Denon 1920 DVD player for this upgrade :)

Oppo v. HD DVD....no contest (I would expect)!

Well, I had a chance to test the A1/XR5 combo with regular DVD today. It is a noticeable improvement over my LG3510a. I'd say I'll be hard-pressed to tell much difference between movies on HBO-HD and regular DVD with this player. The Sopranos is probably still better, though. Sorry I didn't have a better upconverting player to compare to but the LG I think is decent and does upconvert over DVI.

Interesting thing here. I swear it looks better upconverted to 1080i compared to 480p and 720p via HDMI. I didn't understand initially what my eyes were seeing. I think the reason may be analogous to 480i output over HDMI. In other words, the player is scaling 480i but that is all. The NEC then does the rest with it's 1080i inverse telecine magic. I've found to leave the A1's picture mode on "film" with the NEC's Cinema setting "on" with 1080i input to provide the best picture.

Plazman,

There's no reason to spend the extra cash for the XA1. There's absolutely no difference other than a fancier drop down door over the tray and a RS-232 input on the XA1. I'm using the multichannel analog output on my A1 and the sound is absolutely terrific. Ideally, you need a multichannel input with bypass or analog processing only to retain the fidelity of the internal 24/192 DAC's on the A1. I think my ears are "golden" again.

shane55

04-30-06, 05:20 PM

-----------------

That is what was told by A Tweeter sales guy (FWIW). The 42A3 is the new NEC/Pio glass with Pio processors (I believe the same as the 4360). The XR4 AFAIK is the same glass (NEC/Pio) with NEC processor.

Anyway, the NEC processor may overcome some of the limitations you saw with the Pioneer - no harm in trying :p

Well Plaz...
I gotta tell you, this thing is close to unwatchable... except for well-lit programming.

If this IS the same glass as the NEC, then the electronics on the NEC must be the best in the world... or those in this Pio must be some of the worst. I saw better blacks on the Vizio at Costco, but I thought it was just the way this had (or had not) been dialed-in. Now I know.

Having recently set-up my friends 42" Panny 60U, I can tell you that it blows this Pio out of the water. We kicked back and watched some of the same movies I tried to watch on this thing, and they looked great... in a completely dark room. The Pio's 'blacks' glow and are so noisy they are distracting. :(

There is a dealer in SF (kinda tough to get to for me) who has the NEC's on display. I'll try to make it there soon. If the NEC's come close to the Panny in the blacks and the detail in those blacks, then it really could be for me as I really appreciate the added warranty and connectivity that they have over the 8UK.

Cheers

shane

BOSS10L

04-30-06, 07:05 PM

I think I've finally been overcome. I'll try and get an XA1 tomorrow or A1 if that is not available. I am leaning towards the XA1 mainly for the 5.1 sound. Heard the A1 was 2 channels only, is that right? I was waiting for the BluRay, but August seems really far off....too much waiting :eek:

My connection will probably be HDMI (or may be component) input to display and digital audio out to receiver. XA 1 or A1? I've heard the HD player is even very good via component!

I'll be selling my Denon 1920 DVD player for this upgrade :)

Oppo v. HD DVD....no contest (I would expect)!

From what I understand, the A1 will also support 5.1.

*Edit - Found this:

"Built-in multichannel decoders for a range of sound formats ensures improved fidelity and sonic realism Four 32-bit floating-point signal processors deliver a soundstage with incredible depth and detail Onboard Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD (2-ch), DTS and DTS-HD Decoding with 5.1 Analog Audio outputs Multi-Channel 24-Bit/192kHz audio DACs Preprogrammed remote control with TV functions centralizes remote operation Parental lock mode Other connections - 1 set of A/V outputs (composite, S-video, component video); Stereo and 5.1-channel audio out; coax and optical digital out; RJ45 Ethernet and 2 front USB."

Have fun and I look forward to your impressions!

BOSS10L

04-30-06, 07:12 PM

I'm consolidating all my gear in one area in my basement and considering hooking up a media center(mac mini). Any suggestions pos or neg would be great.

I too have been wrestling with the whole media center/HTPC/whatever dilemma. I have considered a Mac Mini myself, but aside from the small form factor and somewhat uber-cool points it would garner, it just seems like it is more of a headache and more expensive than it would be worth. I can build an HTPC that would blow the mini out of the water for about the same price, maybe a hair more. And to be honest, $800 (MSRP) for a media server that can do little else is a bit steep.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the Mac mini, it just isn't cost to performance ratio effective for me.

essogas

04-30-06, 08:00 PM

I too have been wrestling with the whole media center/HTPC/whatever dilemma. I have considered a Mac Mini myself, but aside from the small form factor and somewhat uber-cool points it would garner, it just seems like it is more of a headache and more expensive than it would be worth. I can build an HTPC that would blow the mini out of the water for about the same price, maybe a hair more. And to be honest, $800 (MSRP) for a media server that can do little else is a bit steep.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the Mac mini, it just isn't cost to performance ratio effective for me.

The Mac mini would be my choice over any "build your own" type, just because of it's simplicity and Front row which is built into the machine, it' not even an app!

But hold your horses if you're jonesing for a Home Theatre PC. Stevie Baby has something up his sleeve and based on their track record I wouldn't be surprised if it puts everything else to shame. Read it right here (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/04/27/sharehldrmtg/index.php)

plazman

04-30-06, 08:24 PM

Well, I had a chance to test the A1/XR5 combo with regular DVD today. It is a noticeable improvement over my LG3510a. I'd say I'll be hard-pressed to tell much difference between movies on HBO-HD and regular DVD with this player. The Sopranos is probably still better, though. Sorry I didn't have a better upconverting player to compare to but the LG I think is decent and does upconvert over DVI.

Interesting thing here. I swear it looks better upconverted to 1080i compared to 480p and 720p via HDMI. I didn't understand initially what my eyes were seeing. I think the reason may be analogous to 480i output over HDMI. In other words, the player is scaling 480i but that is all. The NEC then does the rest with it's 1080i inverse telecine magic. I've found to leave the A1's picture mode on "film" with the NEC's Cinema setting "on" with 1080i input to provide the best picture.

Plazman,

There's no reason to spend the extra cash for the XA1. There's absolutely no difference other than a fancier drop down door over the tray and a RS-232 input on the XA1. I'm using the multichannel analog output on my A1 and the sound is absolutely terrific. Ideally, you need a multichannel input with bypass or analog processing only to retain the fidelity of the internal 24/192 DAC's on the A1. I think my ears are "golden" again.

Thanks! I'll get the A1 then, tomorrow is the day :)

BOSS10L

04-30-06, 09:57 PM

The Mac mini would be my choice over any "build your own" type, just because of it's simplicity and Front row which is built into the machine, it' not even an app!

But hold your horses if you're jonesing for a Home Theatre PC. Stevie Baby has something up his sleeve and based on their track record I wouldn't be surprised if it puts everything else to shame. Read it right here (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/04/27/sharehldrmtg/index.php)

Cost is a big factor though. To do everything I would need it would probably run me over a grand using a Mac mini, and it would only be a media server. I could build an HTPC that could do that and much, much more for about the same price.

Thanks for the link. I'm looking forward to what Jobs' will come out with, but right now it is vaporware. And again, will it be the usual Apple overpriced technology?

cpcat

04-30-06, 10:35 PM

Thanks! I'll get the A1 then, tomorrow is the day :)

I think you'll like it.

essogas

04-30-06, 11:13 PM

Cost is a big factor though. To do everything I would need it would probably run me over a grand using a Mac mini, and it would only be a media server. I could build an HTPC that could do that and much, much more for about the same price.

Thanks for the link. I'm looking forward to what Jobs' will come out with, but right now it is vaporware. And again, will it be the usual Apple overpriced technology?

It's vaporware and who knows when it will really hit store shelves? Hopefully sooner than next years Mac expo in january but I doubt it. They save their big guns for that. Will it be overpriced? I think it's a matter of opinion. Will it be more money than other offerings? Most likely. Will I buy one? Absolutely.

plazman

05-01-06, 09:33 AM

Well Plaz...
I gotta tell you, this thing is close to unwatchable... except for well-lit programming.

If this IS the same glass as the NEC, then the electronics on the NEC must be the best in the world... or those in this Pio must be some of the worst. I saw better blacks on the Vizio at Costco, but I thought it was just the way this had (or had not) been dialed-in. Now I know.

Having recently set-up my friends 42" Panny 60U, I can tell you that it blows this Pio out of the water. We kicked back and watched some of the same movies I tried to watch on this thing, and they looked great... in a completely dark room. The Pio's 'blacks' glow and are so noisy they are distracting. :(

There is a dealer in SF (kinda tough to get to for me) who has the NEC's on display. I'll try to make it there soon. If the NEC's come close to the Panny in the blacks and the detail in those blacks, then it really could be for me as I really appreciate the added warranty and connectivity that they have over the 8UK.

Cheers

shane
-------------

I'd be surprised if it didn't come close to the 8UK. I am guessing you'll still see some grainiess and noise in the black areas, but should be close. Another option (which I have found with my XR5) is to make the source as good as possible - I have found the Oppo has helped and the HD-1 (getting it today - yay!) should take it up another notch.

Anyway, since my Panny looks almost perfect with the Denon 1920 - we watched Dune on it yesterday and it was pretty amazing, that the HD-1 may end up replacing the Oppo for XR5.

The available HDMI inputs on the NEC are very helpful for plugging in the new devices that all seem to require HDMI - the 7UY has only component (which is definitely a drawback)....

Dufusyte

05-01-06, 09:41 AM

-------------------
Nevertheless does show that the XR4 is a formidable display. My Panny 7UY outperforms the XR5 when it comes to dark level details and generally better blacks and constrast - no way I am seeing 3X better contrast on my NEC

Keep in mind the 42XR4 is superior to the 50XR5 in terms of blacks and contrast ratio due to the bonded glass etc. Therefore the glowing reviews of the 42XR4 do not necessarily apply to the XR5 in all respects.

plazman

05-01-06, 10:30 AM

Keep in mind the 42XR4 is superior to the 50XR5 in terms of blacks and contrast ratio due to the bonded glass etc. Therefore the glowing reviews of the 42XR4 do not necessarily apply to the XR5 in all respects.

Likely. Unfortunately I haven't seen an XR4 in action :)

If the blacks and contrasts are better on the XR4, then we're definitely taking Panny 8UK class - or better!

shane55

05-01-06, 01:38 PM

-------------

I'd be surprised if it didn't come close to the 8UK. I am guessing you'll still see some grainiess and noise in the black areas, but should be close. Another option (which I have found with my XR5) is to make the source as good as possible - I have found the Oppo has helped and the HD-1 (getting it today - yay!) should take it up another notch.

Anyway, since my Panny looks almost perfect with the Denon 1920 - we watched Dune on it yesterday and it was pretty amazing, that the HD-1 may end up replacing the Oppo for XR5.

The available HDMI inputs on the NEC are very helpful for plugging in the new devices that all seem to require HDMI - the 7UY has only component (which is definitely a drawback)....

One thing for sure, it's not the source. I'm looking at Comcast HD to the Pio with HDMI. I'm also looking at a very strong signal on several OTA channels. That said, I would still assume that even with a lousy source, black would/should be black... not glowing medium flat grey.

Until I see the 42XR4, I'll just have to believe the good people here that it can actually create a 'black' (like the Pannys), as this 42 Pio doesn't come close. It's going back to Costco this week. :(

shane

cpcat

05-01-06, 02:25 PM

Until I see the 42XR4, I'll just have to believe the good people here that it can actually create a 'black' (like the Pannys), as this 42 Pio doesn't come close. It's going back to Costco this week. :(

shane

I believe the 42A3 is actually 5th gen. Pio glass and so it looks like the Tweeter guy snookered you. The 43 inch glass (4360) is 6th, then they will switch again to a 42 inch panel based on the current NEC glass. Here's a thread discussing it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7582937#post7582937

Here's a direct link to the Japanese press release: http://www.pioneer.co.jp/press/release164.html

It looks like it won't be released in Japan until June so I'd assume sometime after in the U.S..

It looks like there's no media box. It has 1080p24 input support as well as 60 and 72hz scan rate support as well. Nice. :)

shane55

05-01-06, 02:29 PM

I believe the 42A3 is actually 5th gen. Pio glass and so it looks like the Tweeter guy snookered you. The 43 inch glass (4360) is 6th, then they will switch again to a 42 inch panel based on the current NEC glass. Here's a thread discussing it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7582937#post7582937

It looks like there's no media box. 1080p24 input support as well as 60 and 72hz scan rate support as well. Nice. :)

Yeah cpcat, I saw this. Look pretty sweet. The (estimated) cost is a bit Pio-extreme, but maybe street proces will actually be workable.

edit: That said, I'm really not interested in speakers or tuner. That's why the 8UK's and NEC's were so perfect for my needs... the NEC moreso with their better connectivity and warranty. ;)

cheers

shane

plazman

05-01-06, 03:23 PM

Yeah cpcat, I saw this. Look pretty sweet. The (estimated) cost is a bit Pio-extreme, but maybe street proces will actually be workable.

edit: That said, I'm really not interested in speakers or tuner. That's why the 8UK's and NEC's were so perfect for my needs... the NEC moreso with their better connectivity and warranty. ;)

cheers

shane
---------------

cpcat may be correct in that Pio may be 5th gen glass (the same that Pio uses on their commercial panels). The sales rep at Tweeter claimed it was a Tweeter special - i.e. Pioneer made it specially for them! The number may have been a little different, but I do remember it being 42 inches....

Based on what I have read so far on the XR4, it should be at par with the Panny, or the folks at PC Mag are total idiots (which may well be the case) when it comes to reviewing plasma sets!

But the grand prize for 'idiotic' reviews goes to 'Secrets' by a wide margin. They recently reviewed the new HD-A1 HD DVD player, but only reviewed it using SD content at 480p and based on this, their final conclusion was that they could not recommend it as an HD Player. Not only that, but it looks like even for SD content, it passed almost all their tests, easily in the 10% of all progressive scan SD players. So they test a product - but not for what it is designed for, they have a set of objective tests - which this product appears to pass with flying colors and yet their subjective conclusion is 'don't buy' :rolleyes: WOW!

sorry for the rant...

But I've just got my XA1 (store was out of A1) and in the last couple of hours, the product looks very promising. Out performs the Oppo even for SD!

cpcat

05-01-06, 03:36 PM

For whatever reason 1080i looks best to me for SD discs. I'm trying to figure out why this might be. I keep the A1 on "film" in the picture menu and the NEC Cinema mode "on" for 1080i sources.

plazman

05-01-06, 03:55 PM

For whatever reason 1080i looks best to me for SD discs. I'm trying to figure out why this might be. I keep the A1 on "film" in the picture menu and the NEC Cinema mode "on" for 1080i sources.
-------------

Me too! 1080i looks best (and amazing). I was not expecting it to do better than the Oppo, but it clearly is :)

I have also noticed that the blacks and dark area details with the XA1 are excellent on the XA1 for SD. It may sound strange but I've spent more time trying to figure out how the player does with SD than HD DVD! I am trying all my past 'problem' DVDs and the upscaling works pretty well. I only watched portions of Serenity, but the PQ was superb.

I'd say at $500 (for the A1) this isn't a bad product at all!

Only tried the XA 1 on my XR5 so far. But XA1 (1080i, HDMI) + XR5 > Denon 1920 (480p, component) + 7UY for SD (JHMO) :D

rubinjm

05-01-06, 07:06 PM

Played a DVD yesterday on my 50XM5 set to Full & saw letterboxing (DVD player is set to widescreen.) Saw on the DVD box that it was 2.35:1 format, so I changed the display mode to match. Letterboxing went away, but some of the credits at the edge of the screen were cut off.

I assumed that using 2.35:1 mode with the same format DVD wouldn't result in any cropping. What am I misunderstanding here?

cpcat

05-01-06, 07:13 PM

-------------

Me too! 1080i looks best (and amazing). I was not expecting it to do better than the Oppo, but it clearly is :)

I have also noticed that the blacks and dark area details with the XA1 are excellent on the XA1 for SD. It may sound strange but I've spent more time trying to figure out how the player does with SD than HD DVD! I am trying all my past 'problem' DVDs and the upscaling works pretty well. I only watched portions of Serenity, but the PQ was superb.

I'd say at $500 (for the A1) this isn't a bad product at all!

Only tried the XA 1 on my XR5 so far. But XA1 (1080i, HDMI) + XR5 > Denon 1920 (480p, component) + 7UY for SD (JHMO) :D

So you got the XA1 afterall, huh? Just had to be better, didn't you? :)

I think I've figured this 1080i output for SD thing out. I initially suspected it was that the A1 was just scaling 480i to 1080i and therefore providing a "quasi-native" signal to the display. I then questioned to self whether this was a plausible conversion. I emailed the CE at Lumagen and here's what he said on the issue:

Hi, yes that can be done. You're probably seeing a better picture because the A1 DVD player does not have a very good deinterlacer. When you start out with 480i (on the DVD) and have the A1 convert it to 1080i all it does is scale--then we deinterlace it and scale again. For 480p it has to deinterlace the video and probably doesn't do so well. If you had 480i HDMI (like the Pio 59avi can do) or got an SDI player the picture would be even better since you'd still be feeding the Lumagen with digital video but you could let us both deinterlace and scale it only once.

regards,
Patrick

So, it seems, the player really can just scale 480i to 1080i and the NEC (or VP) can do the rest. This makes sense now.

That's really impressive that you think it betters the Oppo for SD. I'd say that's a big reason everyone likes this unit so much.

HD-DVD is no slouch either. :)

I've found a big advantage (with HD-DVD) is you can use 2.35:1 aspect mode on the NEC to get rid of the black bars with almost zero degradation of pq. (Gasp!!) Yes, sometimes I get tired of those black bars and watch movies non-OAR.

cpcat

05-01-06, 07:35 PM

I assumed that using 2.35:1 mode with the same format DVD wouldn't result in any cropping. What am I misunderstanding here?

There's no way to do this without altering the picture other than maybe a 3-ton mammoth (or she-moth? :)) sitting on top of your pdp squashing it to 2.35:1 ratio.
The NEC uses a combination of zooming/cropping to accomplish the task.

plazman

05-01-06, 08:11 PM

So you got the XA1 afterall, huh? Just had to be better, didn't you? :)

I think I've figured this 1080i output for SD thing out. I initially suspected it was that the A1 was just scaling 480i to 1080i and therefore providing a "quasi-native" signal to the display. I then questioned to self whether this was a plausible conversion. I emailed the CE at Lumagen and here's what he said on the issue:

Hi, yes that can be done. You're probably seeing a better picture because the A1 DVD player does not have a very good deinterlacer. When you start out with 480i (on the DVD) and have the A1 convert it to 1080i all it does is scale--then we deinterlace it and scale again. For 480p it has to deinterlace the video and probably doesn't do so well. If you had 480i HDMI (like the Pio 59avi can do) or got an SDI player the picture would be even better since you'd still be feeding the Lumagen with digital video but you could let us both deinterlace and scale it only once.

regards,
Patrick

So, it seems, the player really can just scale 480i to 1080i and the NEC (or VP) can do the rest. This makes sense now.

That's really impressive that you think it betters the Oppo for SD. I'd say that's a big reason everyone likes this unit so much.

HD-DVD is no slouch either. :)

I've found a big advantage (with HD-DVD) is you can use 2.35:1 aspect mode on the NEC to get rid of the black bars with almost zero degradation of pq. (Gasp!!) Yes, sometimes I get tired of those black bars and watch movies non-OAR.
-----------

They were out of A1. I would have liked the save the 300! It looks nice though. I've been watching it non-stop! Even my wife came home and just sat in front of the screen - I had Spiderman (Superbit) playing, tonight we watch Apollo 13 in HD.

The XR5 was totally made for a HD Player. I'm also happy about the 2 HDMI inputs. After reading the Secrets review I briefly switched to Component and SD quality immediately went down, not bad but not like what I am seeing now!

All I can say, anyone planning on getting the XR5 from Chris, picking up an HD player won't hurt - it costs as much as a good upconverting DVD layer!

Hmmm...better PQ? This already beats my HD movie channels pretty easily :D

cpcat

05-01-06, 08:32 PM

-----------

Hmmm...better PQ? This already beats my HD movie channels pretty easily :D

I'm trying to resist the temptation to giddiness, but I tell you HD-DVD is the best HD I've seen. You can get right up to the screen and see almost no artifacting, even in 2.35:1 mode on the NEC.

As for SD, it's probably due to the fact that I've been dealing with D* for most of my HD movies, but I think it's comparable to movies I see on HBO-HD and HD-Net. I don't like the 2.35:1 mode as much with SD-DVD though. Like I said before, I think The Sopranos is still better on HBO-HD, but I'll admit I'm a fan of the show as well.

I got Serenity and Million Dollar Baby today both HD-DVD. It was around 45 bucks with tax for both at Walmart. If the wife watches, it will probably be MDB tonight. If not, maybe S. :)

cirob

05-02-06, 06:52 PM

I have a chance to buy a mosquito noise reduction from a european dealer at his price, he says 50% off, he wants me to get him A1 and some movies and send to
naples italy. I was all worked up on the mosquito but now with the A1 looking so good only the sd coming from the cable box, (a moto dvr with hdmi) would require
noise control and at this point even with 1/2 off I don't know if it's worth it, I try to stay away from anything not hd :D

N8G

05-03-06, 03:41 PM

Hi,

I just bought a brand new NEC 42XR4. picture quality is stunning !!
The only problem I'm experiencing is that when looking at the TV from the side and light is reflected on it (even when the TV is off) - I see these purple stains all over the TV.

I complained to the shop that sold me the Tv and they replaced it with a brand new one - the same spots appear there too.

Is it normal? this means that when watching TV on daytime and light is reflected from outside the window - I see stains on dark locations of the picture.

Other 42XR4 owners - do you experience the same issue when light is reflected over dark image locations?

Please help.... :confused:

The purple reflection is from the bonded color filter. It helps to reduce reflections and increase blacks. This works great when viewing the set head on, but when viewing at large angles (+40) you can get the purplish (I think it looks more pinkish) tint. I only notice this though when bright light is reflected directly and watching something dark. If I close the shades or watch more straight on I don't see the tint. So it isn't the set, it is the technology producing this. Most likely most of the newer, higher-end plasmas will also do this as most now include this type of filter.

N8G

05-03-06, 03:51 PM

Fan noise – the pioneer has no fan. Is the fan noticeable? I’m sure watching a nice surround sound movie it’s not, but how about when you are watching the Today show?

I see burn-in discussion popping up. Is this a greater concern with this display over the Pioneer? (I know to a degree it’s an issue with all)

There are a few differences between the 50XR5 and 42XR4. One of these appears to be fan noise. Even though the NEC lists the XR4 having a 2 db higher fan noise floor, most of us owning the XR4 never hear them. I have confirmed they are running from the service menu, but never hear them even from 2 inches. People with the XR5 seem to report they can hear their fans, but just barely.

Another difference seems to be image retention. Owners of the XR4 routinely report having never seen image retention on their sets under similar to conditions whereas XR5 owners will see it. When I first had my set I was very careful with it during the 100 break-in period. As I got past that and never once saw any IR, I started becoming less and less careful to the point now where it never crosses my mind and I watch whatever I want and do not worry about aspect ratios, bars, or logos. So for the XR4 vs. Pioneer, I would say this is a non-issue.

BOSS10L

05-04-06, 08:01 AM

Steve L

05-04-06, 08:59 AM

... when viewing at large angles (+40) you can get the purplish (I think it looks more pinkish) tint.

... Most likely most of the newer, higher-end plasmas will also do this as most now include this type of filter.

I made it a point yesterday to look at the 60 or so 40"- 60" plasma and LCD panels my dealer has on display and I could not detect an off-axis tint on any of them. These included displays from Fujitsu, Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, LG, Sharp and Toshiba.

Based on what I've read here, I was seriously considering a 42" XR4 for my daughter's new apartment, but I'm a bit put off now for two reasons, both related to seating.

Two of the four primary seating positions will be off-axis, so I'm concerned about the tint mentioned above, especially since there is a large window on one side of the room.

All four seating positions will be 7'-8' away, so I'm even more concerned about the "graininess" visible at close distances mentioned in Ofer Lafor's review at:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_2/nec-42xr4-plasma-tv-4-2006-part-1.html

I suspect both these problems may be subtle, but without being able to see for myself, I'm reluctant to gamble with someone else's money. I can't believe there are there no stores in the New York metro area or suburbs that have one on display!

/steve

plazman

05-04-06, 09:03 AM

I'm trying to resist the temptation to giddiness, but I tell you HD-DVD is the best HD I've seen. You can get right up to the screen and see almost no artifacting, even in 2.35:1 mode on the NEC.

As for SD, it's probably due to the fact that I've been dealing with D* for most of my HD movies, but I think it's comparable to movies I see on HBO-HD and HD-Net. I don't like the 2.35:1 mode as much with SD-DVD though. Like I said before, I think The Sopranos is still better on HBO-HD, but I'll admit I'm a fan of the show as well.

I got Serenity and Million Dollar Baby today both HD-DVD. It was around 45 bucks with tax for both at Walmart. If the wife watches, it will probably be MDB tonight. If not, maybe S. :)

--------------------------

I am using the 'enhanced blacks' from the XA-1. It seems to improve dark area details for SD DVDs? I just calibrated my XR5 using THX Optimizer and I believe I am getting truly outstanding image. With the THX Optimizer I can see that via HDMI (on my XR5) I can't see the BTB drop-down shadow in the THX disk, but via component on my 7UY I can. However, from all practical purposes I see no degradation in PQ. If anything the upconverted SD DVD image on the XR5 is more detailed than the standards 480p image on my Panny (can't upconvert via component :( ).

So it does appear to me at least, that the XR5 does much better with good source content. My theory is that the superior video processor highlights both the bad and the good so lower quality sources like (some) DVDs end up showing more of their defects on the XR5 than on my Panny. With the XA-1 I don't see any of these problems, I replayed some of the old problem movies like Gettysburg! I can't almost believe this :confused:

I'm glad Secrets gave such a high rating to the Oppo, I got a good resale price on it :)

plazman

05-04-06, 09:07 AM

I made it a point yesterday to look at the 60 or so 40"- 60" plasma and LCD panels my dealer has on display and I could not detect an off-axis tint on any of them. These included displays from Fujitsu, Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, LG, Sharp and Toshiba.

Based on what I've read here, I was seriously considering a 42" XR4 for my daughter's new apartment, but I'm a bit put off now for two reasons, both related to seating.

Two of the four primary seating positions will be off-axis, so I'm concerned about the tint mentioned above, especially since there is a large window on one side of the room.

All four seating positions will be 7'-8' away, so I'm even more concerned about the "graininess" visible at close distances mentioned in Ofer Lafor's review at:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_2/nec-42xr4-plasma-tv-4-2006-part-1.html

I suspect both these problems may be subtle, but without being able to see for myself, I'm reluctant to gamble with someone else's money. I can't believe there are there no stores in the New York metro area or suburbs that have one on display!

/steve

-------------

My belief is that the graininess is due to the NEC processing. I see more graininess in lower quality sources like DVD on my XR5 than on my Panny 7UY. However, it has been pointed out that the XR4 is superior in many ways to the XR5 that I own (not sure why a 5 would be worse than a 4 in terms of processing :confused: ) so the XR4 may not have the same problems.

best of luck!

Steve L

05-04-06, 10:29 AM

-------------

My belief is that the graininess is due to the NEC processing. I see more graininess in lower quality sources like DVD on my XR5 than on my Panny 7UY. However, it has been pointed out that the XR4 is superior in many ways to the XR5 that I own (not sure why a 5 would be worse than a 4 in terms of processing :confused: ) so the XR4 may not have the same problems.

best of luck!

Not sure if you're talking about the same problem, but here's how it was described in Ofer's review:

"Blacks are a really tough nut to crack for flat panel displays, but dark grays are also a major issue. [...] this is not the case with this panel, which produced quite balanced grays even with very low IRE levels.

However, this does not come without a price. The display flickers and grains quite dramatically on normal content. This is a side effect of the "time modulation" process that plasmas use to produce mid-tones. A plasma pixel can only be turned on or off, it cannot produce intermediate shades like an LCD can. To produce those intermediate shades, plasma pixels blink, e.g., turned on roughly 50% of the time to produce 50% of a particular shade. The eye filters this blinking (in theory), and this produces a "time modulation" version of mid-tones.

This technique is very complex and requires complex timing and electronics to work correctly. A change in the blinking behavior can cause increased grain and video noise on the image. Both grain and noise are visible on the 42XR4. At a distance of about 7 feet, I can still see this noise, but beyond that distance, the issue slowly disappears. If you are planning on using the display at a smaller viewing distance, I would recommend against it."

As you may know, Ofer is the moderator of the AVS Video Processor forum, a NEC42XR3G owner and, IMHO, someone who can be trusted to comment objectively and accurately on the 42XR4. Given my daughter's apartment only allows for a 7'-8' viewing distance, this is probably not the panel for her.

/steve

Marky_Mark896

05-04-06, 02:55 PM

As long as you keep static images and black bars to a minimum, enjoy. If you feel like you are likely to forget or other family members will be using the set while you're away, practice more precautions.

I use the screen wiper when my kids are watching Noggin. I love Noggin, but hate that logo. :)

cpcat, I think I have permanent burn in on my XM5. It's that stupid Noggin logo. It's not very noticable. I have only noticed it for the last few days when I had a hockey game on, and there was empty ice on the screen. It doesn't even show up when I display a white screen saver. I hope it goes away soon... I emailed Noggin to see if they would change their logo. I told them it was burned in to my new 50" plasma. I think we're gonna quit watching it on this TV if they don't do something about it. The least they could do is make it somewhat transparent.

mule65

05-04-06, 03:08 PM

cpcat, I think I have permanent burn in on my XM5

I've heard enough of this -- NEC is officially off my short list. :(

DCypher

05-04-06, 03:13 PM

I've heard enough of this -- NEC is officially off my short list. :(

???

First i've heard of "Permanent Burn-in"...
I watch lots of shows on my NEC with permanent banners (baseball games, etc.) and while the set has some image retention, it's far from Permanent.

Jeff

Marky_Mark896

05-04-06, 03:18 PM

plazman

05-04-06, 03:21 PM

Not sure if you're talking about the same problem, but here's how it was described in Ofer's review:

"Blacks are a really tough nut to crack for flat panel displays, but dark grays are also a major issue. [...] this is not the case with this panel, which produced quite balanced grays even with very low IRE levels.

However, this does not come without a price. The display flickers and grains quite dramatically on normal content. This is a side effect of the "time modulation" process that plasmas use to produce mid-tones. A plasma pixel can only be turned on or off, it cannot produce intermediate shades like an LCD can. To produce those intermediate shades, plasma pixels blink, e.g., turned on roughly 50% of the time to produce 50% of a particular shade. The eye filters this blinking (in theory), and this produces a "time modulation" version of mid-tones.

This technique is very complex and requires complex timing and electronics to work correctly. A change in the blinking behavior can cause increased grain and video noise on the image. Both grain and noise are visible on the 42XR4. At a distance of about 7 feet, I can still see this noise, but beyond that distance, the issue slowly disappears. If you are planning on using the display at a smaller viewing distance, I would recommend against it."

As you may know, Ofer is the moderator of the AVS Video Processor forum, a NEC42XR3G owner and, IMHO, someone who can be trusted to comment objectively and accurately on the 42XR4. Given my daughter's apartment only allows for a 7'-8' viewing distance, this is probably not the panel for her.

/steve

Yes! This would be a very accurate description of the problem. I've mentioned it many times when people ask me about a recommendation. You can see it when you compare my Panasonic (which does not have it) and the NEC. This is more pronounced with SD DVD content and large goes away with the new HD DVD player. But if you aren't planning on getting it, it can be pretty tough watching a movie. For the first two months we hardly watched the NEC (after the initial euphoria of a new plasma) due to the video noise. Of course if I didn't have the Panny and seen the difference we would have thought of it as normal plasma behavior :)

Excellent review by Ofer!!!!

DCypher

05-04-06, 03:24 PM

It's probably just retention, but it's lasting longer than usual. It's been on the screen for 2 days now. I don't think it would really matter what plasma you used...if you watched hours of noggin like my kids and wife do, you'd have retention or burn in from that stupid logo.

Just curious...
how many hours has your monitor been used?
Did you run through a break-in period?

If you have a break-in video to play, i would recommend that... whenever you aren't watching a show, just leave the monitor on with the break-in dvd/vcd.
That should help.

Jeff

Marky_Mark896

05-04-06, 03:40 PM

I forget how to look at it, but quite a while ago it had 680 hours, so I'm sure it has 800-1000 hours on it now. We still get quite a bit of IR on our set, and it doesn't seem to have gotten any less with age. I will say though, the IR usually goes away in a few minutes, and this display has a beautiful picture viewing HD and DVD material.

haveoneolboy

05-04-06, 04:06 PM

Wow, your family watches a lot of television. I have the first XM5A made for the USA and I barely have over 350 hours. What serial number is yours? You can see it on the side with the inputs. I don't get much image retention but our viewing is mostly movies and HD sports. The black bars can show up after watching a DVD but disappear in a minute or so.

Steve L

05-04-06, 04:27 PM

Yes! This would be a very accurate description of the problem. I've mentioned it many times when people ask me about a recommendation. You can see it when you compare my Panasonic (which does not have it) and the NEC. This is more pronounced with SD DVD content and large goes away with the new HD DVD player. But if you aren't planning on getting it, it can be pretty tough watching a movie. For the first two months we hardly watched the NEC (after the initial euphoria of a new plasma) due to the video noise. Of course if I didn't have the Panny and seen the difference we would have thought of it as normal plasma behavior :)

Thanks for confirming what Ofer reported. I've got both a Fujitsu P50XHA40US and a Panasonic 42PD50U, and they are both noise-free as well. Since the viewing distance will be so close, they will need to purchase an HD display. I'd love her to get the 42" Fujitsu HD, but money is a bit tight, so she'll probably wind up with the 42" Panny PX60.

/steve

jsf2001

05-04-06, 04:42 PM

This is always something that has perplexed me.....People's issues with fan noise.

If I'm watching TV or a movie, I have the volume up enough that it would drown out any fan noise that my XR5 (or any display for that matter) can pump out. Ditto for playing games on the PC. I've got a monstrous full-tower case with no less than 8 fans, and it is barely perceptible to me, even when just surfing the net, let alone playing MP3s or a game.

Maybe I'm just extraordinarily good at tuning out background noises (I am married, after all :D), or I guess maybe I'm not that attuned yet.

Funny you should mention this. I tend to agree with you on this, especially since I also installed 2 "quiet" fans in my audio/video cabinet to exhaust heat and the "noise" from those fans really doesn't bother me at all. (They work great, by the way, and I highly recommend them to anyone who plans on enclosing their equipment in a closed cabinet.)

techjunky2

05-04-06, 04:48 PM

I have finally completed my install of my XR5 and and an in wall install of the components. This has been very time consuming, but I wanted to make sure it looked like a quality install. I have included some pics here of my work in progress and the completed install. Feel free to comment. I am very satisfied with the install considering I did every inch of it entirely on my own. Enjoy! I am. :) I just can't get over how nicely these Polk speakers blend in with the Xr5's design. It's a match made in heaven. :D

haveoneolboy

05-04-06, 04:49 PM

I just snapped a screen shot of my 50XM5A at 7 feet. 50"@7'=no noise for me. I would blame all noise on the source. This is a 480i feed from my JVC DVD player.
http://www.glowracks.com/xm7feet.JPG

Marky_Mark896

05-04-06, 04:52 PM

My serial number is 5Z00384 9A. Our TV is on around 16 to 18 hours a day probably even when no one is watching... I know, I know....no lectures please...lol. Anyways, I have never noticed any retention lasting more than a few minutes until the other day when I saw the remnants of the Noggin logo. It is the ugliest most obtrusive logo of any channel out there. The good news is it's all but gone, the bad news is I don't want the girls to watch that channel at all anymore because of it, and it does have good shows for them. What to do, what to do...

Steve L

05-04-06, 05:21 PM

I just snapped a screen shot of my 50XM5A at 7 feet. 50"@7'=no noise for me. I would blame all noise on the source.

I don't doubt that you don't see any noise. In order to show this in an online picture, though, you'd probably want to to send us a close-up shot of the screen that shows some pixel detail. Viewing the entire screen at the picture size you posted, IMHO, I don't think we're seeing quite what you're seeing in person.

The good news is it's quite possible your XM5 doesn't suffer from the same problem as the 42" XR4 or Plazman's XR5. The fellow that wrote the review would have known if the source was at fault, and not the display. Check out some of Ofer's posts and moderated discussions in the Video Processor forum and you'll see he's pretty knowledgable when it comes to this stuff.

/steve

jvincent

05-04-06, 05:29 PM

What to do, what to do...

I'm not familiar with the location / size of the Noggin bug. Will it get moved "off the screen" if you zoom?

plazman

05-04-06, 05:38 PM

I just snapped a screen shot of my 50XM5A at 7 feet. 50"@7'=no noise for me. I would blame all noise on the source. This is a 480i feed from my JVC DVD player.
http://www.glowracks.com/xm7feet.JPG

------------

Noise is not something that you notice in one screen shot, or for that matter in brightly lit scenes. Noise or increased graininess in the image (at least for me) happens when you are watching dark scenes with lots of shadows, for instance Gettyburg in the night scenes inside the cabins or Master and Commander.

If you don't notice image noise or don't have any, then you have nothing to worry about. It may just me my set or the way I perceive the image. Just another data point to consider....

My theory based on my viewing experience has been that the NEC is more sensitive to source data, thereby highlighting both good and bad parts of the picture, which is why I used to notice 'excessive' noise in terms of grainiess and loss of dark area details in several movies (when compared to my Panny).

BTW: nice screenshot! definitely highlights the NEC's ability to handle vivid colors well. However, with cartoons it's often difficult to tell if the colors are accurate. But overall I do like how the NEC handles color, especially in HD content!

cpcat

05-04-06, 05:42 PM

cpcat, I think I have permanent burn in on my XM5. It's that stupid Noggin logo. It's not very noticable. I have only noticed it for the last few days when I had a hockey game on, and there was empty ice on the screen. It doesn't even show up when I display a white screen saver. I hope it goes away soon... I emailed Noggin to see if they would change their logo. I told them it was burned in to my new 50" plasma. I think we're gonna quit watching it on this TV if they don't do something about it. The least they could do is make it somewhat transparent.

Sorry to here that. I bet it will eventually go away. I assume others here have suggested you might use the all white screen or the inverse screen (with the Noggin logo on).

Marky_Mark896

05-04-06, 05:42 PM

I'm not familiar with the location / size of the Noggin bug. Will it get moved "off the screen" if you zoom?

Not completely...it's a huge freakin' thing...They definitely want you to remember what channel you are watching... or which one ruined your plasma...

http://www.noggin.com/img/nav/log132x071noggin.gif

Marky_Mark896

05-04-06, 05:54 PM

I did that stuff cpcat. I think it's about all gone, or at least it's only noticable on solid color screens. It's funny though that when I turn on screen wipe white screen, I can't see it, but can see it when a solid color screen is broadcast...

haveoneolboy

05-04-06, 06:16 PM

Some people could encounter noise from AC. I made sure when I built my house to have the closest AC wire 5 feet away from my audio and video sources/wires. I also run everything through a power conditioner. I know what AC can do to audio and I have heard it affects video signals the same. I wanted the cleanest signal possible for my PDP and AVR. Now you guys are boasting about the the A1 HD-DVD and I am chomping at the bit.

cpcat

05-04-06, 06:28 PM

This technique is very complex and requires complex timing and electronics to work correctly. A change in the blinking behavior can cause increased grain and video noise on the image. Both grain and noise are visible on the 42XR4. At a distance of about 7 feet, I can still see this noise, but beyond that distance, the issue slowly disappears. If you are planning on using the display at a smaller viewing distance, I would recommend against it."

/steve

As Ofer points out, this is inherent to plasma display technology. I think they'll all do it to some extent. It seems to show up in SD and lower quality "quasi-HD" sources like some of the movies I see on TNT, UHD, and HDNETmovies.

It is especially noticeable on my TH-50PX50U with the scene in The Shawshank Redemption the "night of the escape" when they are in their cells after lights-out.
You see a very grainy appearance in dark backgrounds and areas that are near black. With LCD, you won't see this partly because they use analog processing for color which has infinite steps and also partially because the shadow detail will be more obscured with LCD. You can make your plasma look almost identical to lcd in this regard (if you want to) by lowering the brightness more but what you'll give up is shadow detail.

This basically gets to the crux of lcd vs. plasma and which you prefer.

As far as the performance in this regard between my XR5 and my 50U I've actually been bothered by it less on my XR5.

With higher quality sources, it is much less noticeable. With HD-DVD (or at least so far), it's virtually non-existent. I watched Phantom of the Opera last night and it has many dark scenes. The only noise you see in the dark areas (you have to get close to see it) is the very fine dithering of near black. Assuming you have pdp, display black bars on your screen and artificially increase the brightness setting while looking at the bars up close. The "sparkling" you see is dithering noise and this is all I see in dark areas with HD-DVD. Gradually turn the brightness back down until the dithering just completely goes away. That's your approximate ideal brightness setting FYI.

The one thing Ofer doesn't have AFAIK is HD-DVD. It's nice to have a "reference" signal to compare to for display performance. HD-DVD/BD changes everything IMO.

Edit:
Hmmm. Reading the entire review, it appears he was referring to noise/grain with even normal and brighter images. I can't explain that. That's the range where the XR5 definitely beats the 50U in my experience.

Steve L

05-04-06, 08:14 PM

Hmmm. Reading the entire review, it appears he was referring to noise/grain with even normal and brighter images. I can't explain that. That's the range where the XR5 definitely beats the 50U in my experience.

Ofer was also specifically reviewing the 42" XR4. Perhaps this model suffers from DVD grain and noise more than your XR5.

/steve

cpcat

05-04-06, 08:41 PM

Ofer was also specifically reviewing the 42" XR4. Perhaps this model suffers from DVD grain and noise more than your XR5.

/steve

One thing that does come to mind is how "hot" you are running the display and by that I'm referring to the contrast level. I can make my picture very noisy by ramping up the contrast. As Ofer alluded to in the intro of the review, the NEC's are very bright at factory settings.

I've lately decreased my contrast to 42 with brightness level raised slightly to 38 (with the previous "bright" settings I posted).

This will also have the effect of decreasing chance of IR and longer panel life.

agogley

05-04-06, 09:44 PM

I was looking at the NEC 61" models and none of them have HDMI?? I didn't look at the actual manuals but the website doesn't list it nor does the view of the product show one. This seems like a deal breaker.

jvincent

05-04-06, 09:50 PM

Cleveland Plasma

05-04-06, 10:00 PM

2 HDMI for that matter, 2 Component, 1 composite, 1 S-Video, and a VGA Port.

NEC XR Specs Here (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/File/NEC_XR5_Series.pdf)

agogley

05-04-06, 10:13 PM

ducpham

05-05-06, 12:38 AM

big_marcelo

05-05-06, 04:12 AM

One thing that does come to mind is how "hot" you are running the display and by that I'm referring to the contrast level. I can make my picture very noisy by ramping up the contrast. As Ofer alluded to in the intro of the review, the NEC's are very bright at factory settings.

I've lately decreased my contrast to 42 with brightness level raised slightly to 38 (with the previous "bright" settings I posted).

This will also have the effect of decreasing chance of IR and longer panel life.

NR1 also significanly reduces noise on lower quality signals without affecting PQ much ..... is worth trying.

BOSS10L

05-05-06, 06:12 AM

Not completely...it's a huge freakin' thing...They definitely want you to remember what channel you are watching... or which one ruined your plasma...

http://www.noggin.com/img/nav/log132x071noggin.gif

Have you tried PBS Kids Sprout? Same types of programs, but no annoying Noggin logo. My 3 and 8 year-olds enjoy it. Sprout was decent, but then they went and totally changed the program lineup. That's why we watch either Sprout or Nickelodeon now.

BOSS10L

05-05-06, 06:17 AM

Hi,

I am thinking about getting the Sony NS75H DVD Player for my NECXR5. But I have 2 questions before I pull the trigger.

1. Has anyone used the Sony NS75H with the NECXR5? Are they good together?

2. The NS75H comes with upscaled HDMI output: 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Which mode should I use?

Thanks.

1 - I don't know of anyone, but I would assume that unless you already own an Oppo or HD-DVD player, the NS75H *should* be fine. My opinion though would be the Oppo, as there are legions of people who swear by it, including quite a few XR5 owners.

2 - Whichever one looks best to your eyes. :cool:

cpcat

05-05-06, 08:07 AM

NR1 also significanly reduces noise on lower quality signals without affecting PQ much ..... is worth trying.

Yes, excellent point. I normally keep mine on NR-2. Some internal/external video processors incorporate NR schemes which are not adjustable and "always on" so this could certainly be a possible explanation.

plazman

05-05-06, 08:40 AM

1 - I don't know of anyone, but I would assume that unless you already own an Oppo or HD-DVD player, the NS75H *should* be fine. My opinion though would be the Oppo, as there are legions of people who swear by it, including quite a few XR5 owners.

2 - Whichever one looks best to your eyes. :cool:
---------------

I had an Oppo until Wednesday morning!

My XR5 was initially hooked up to the Progressive scan DVD player that comes with the Bose Lifestyle 45 system. After around a month or so of unsatisfactory DVD/movie viewing experience I upgraded to the Oppo. Upconverting to 720p (some prefer 1080i) resulted in a noticeable reduction in general graininess and improved grey area details. I would say with the Oppo, dark area details were comparable to my Panny 7UY (but edge still to Panny).

This week I got the new HD DVD player and the image on the XR5 is perfect (IMHO). Not only HD content, but also SD content look better than I have ever seen in a home theatre in 50 inches - period! Last night we had a close family friend over for dinner. He has the new Panny 8UK and a $3,500 DVD player. Professionally he works in imaging and ultra-high end graphics so I would guess he would know something about PQ! Anyway, to cut a long story short, we watched a SD movie (The Emperor and the Assassin) and his comment was that the PQ matched, if not was superior to his set-up! His impressions were that the colors were richer and the details in the dark areas were outstanding.

So, I take that as an endorsement that the XR5 is an excellent set, but you need to make sure you are using a good source. With less than optimal source you are going to experience greater graininess than say a commercial Panny (7UY, 8UY). I believe the new Panny 60U have the exact same charateristics as the NEC XR5 - which is why you hear people talking about 'noise' in the picture. It's the increased sensitivity in the processor (JMHO).

Now the other issue with the XR5 that comes up regarding IR and screen burn in. I really can't comment on that since I haven't really been affected by it.

Until I hooked up the XR5 to the HD DVD player (XA-1) when anyone used to ask me about a recommendation of the XR5 I used to tell them that if they watched a lot of movies they need to be aware of the source. People who had come over to my home to see the set also noticed it, when compared to the Panny.

Now, I'm not implying that everyone should go out there and get a BD or HD DVD player, or even an expensive upconverting DVD player. But it does help, even with the excellent VP in the XR5!

As for a Sony DVD player. I bought and returned one to the Sonystyle store (not sure which model it was) since the PQ was not any better than the Bose and I didn't like the audio - this was a $200 player. I also tried out the Pioneer Elite 45A and again returned it due to poor audio performance. I am picky about the audio and some of the lower end players do a bad job with the audio. Unless there is some sort of audio pass through (but I haven't figured out how to do that). I guess is you have a high-end AV receiver it'll probably be able to compensate for it. Anyway, the XA-1 audio sounds much much better than any DVD player I have ever owned....

plazman

05-05-06, 08:44 AM

Actually I did look very closely. the NEC website is full of errors. You click on the 61" consumer model and it doesn't show any inputs for HDMI in photos or specifications. You have to go to resources and download the datasheet to see the connections.

NEC's website is pretty much a joke! It is an excellent indicator of how much they value their CE market :rolleyes:

This would be one of my primary concerns about NEC. How much do they care about being in the consumer market? I haven't seen a less user friendly web-site (at least in English) from a major vendor!

Cleveland Plasma

05-05-06, 09:03 AM

^^^^ I do not completely agree. First there web site was launched in January and was a fresh start, therefor yes there is some info there that is in the wrong place. I have went to plenty of sights that have had the wrong info up a time or two. All the information you could ever want to have is there, including the installation guide that shows every dimension you could ever want to know with accessories on the unit, who else offers that? I know of no other manufacturer who offers this.

Not to mention call 800-284-4484 and see how long you wait to talk to a rep, maybe a minute or two.

haveoneolboy

05-05-06, 09:45 AM

Ok, so when I buy a HD-DVD player, where do I purchase the HD Movies? How many titles are out currently?

plazman

05-05-06, 09:50 AM

plazman

05-05-06, 09:53 AM

Ok, so when I buy a HD-DVD player, where do I purchase the HD Movies? How many titles are out currently?
--------------

Most stores that sell the players also sell the movies. There are just a handful now, with more trickling in. Netflix also loans them. However, these HD DVD players are also better than any SD DVD players I have ever owned for upconverting SD DVDs. You get near HD (probably better than most HD TV channels) with SD DVD disks. That was my main surprise, the way it handled SD DVDs. I'm sure the BD players will do equally well when they are out - but at a higher cost....

mule65

05-05-06, 10:19 AM

--------------

Most stores that sell the players also sell the movies. There are just a handful now, with more trickling in. Netflix also loans them. However, these HD DVD players are also better than any SD DVD players I have ever owned for upconverting SD DVDs. You get near HD (probably better than most HD TV channels) with SD DVD disks. That was my main surprise, the way it handled SD DVDs. I'm sure the BD players will do equally well when they are out - but at a higher cost....

Doesn't this just say that your $800 HD-XA1 does a much better job of up-converting 480 than your NEC display?

jvincent

05-05-06, 10:35 AM

Doesn't this just say that your $800 HD-XA1 does a much better job of up-converting 480 than your NEC display?

Yep.

For those of you who don't frequent the HTPC forum, there's a thread showing how a guy disassembled his A1 and has been "hacking" it.

In a nutshell, the A1/XA1 are simply linux based HTPCs. The MB has a mobile Pentium and the O/S and S/W are stored on a flash disk.

They haven't taken a close look at the video chipset yet.

agogley

05-05-06, 11:44 AM

NEC's website is pretty much a joke! It is an excellent indicator of how much they value their CE market :rolleyes:

This would be one of my primary concerns about NEC. How much do they care about being in the consumer market? I haven't seen a less user friendly web-site (at least in English) from a major vendor!

While I noted some major errors in their website information, I can't agree with this post. NEC actually had a very cool feature where you can rotate the plasma display to see all 360 degrees including the inputs. They had the wrong photo up in my case, but it was a very good feature. they just need to update the listed specs and the photos of the models so they are accurate. Otherwise, no complaints.

All the information you could ever want to have is there, including the installation guide that shows every dimension you could ever want to know with accessories on the unit, who else offers that? I know of no other manufacturer who offers this.

It's a nice feature. Although most other manufacturers include user guides on their websites.

plazman

05-05-06, 05:19 PM

Doesn't this just say that your $800 HD-XA1 does a much better job of up-converting 480 than your NEC display?
-----------

That would be my assumption.....that the NEC does better scaling 1080i signal to it's native resolution than scaling a 480i/p signal to its native resolution. JMHO...

cpcat

05-05-06, 07:04 PM

Doesn't this just say that your $800 HD-XA1 does a much better job of up-converting 480 than your NEC display?

There are alot of possibilities for why 1080i output from this player might look better regardless of the disc. I doubt it's just a difference in scaling abilities and I personally don't believe in "upconversion" per se.

One possibility is that the player is simply scaling 480i to 1080i and thus providing a "quasi-native" signal over HDMI from regular DVD to the display. It's been confirmed that the upconverted 1080i signal from regular DVD has the 3:2 sequence intact. This allows 1080i IVT by the NEC then subsequent scaling to native. 480i is not available from HDMI unfortunately to make a comparision.

Another possibility is that, as the player is designed first and foremost for 1080i output, all signals are upconverted to 1080i as the initial step in the player regardless of native disc resolution. This type of down/up processing at least seems to be happening for the 720p output from the player, so it's plausible that other signals are treated similarly. This also might explain why 480p doesn't look as good. (It also could be simply that the 480i IVT in the player just isn't that great). I'm not saying this is a good thing, but it might have been cheaper/easier for Toshiba to do it this way. This is pure conjecture BTW.

An interesting quote from Toshiba:
Output Resolution: As you correctly mentioned, setting the output resolution to the native resolution of the disc (1080i for a 1080P disc, 720P for those discs when they are available) will always result in the best picture. As you can imagine, accomplishing the superb picture you experienced from HD DVD discs and achieving great results when up-scaling standard DVDs is quite a trick for machines that retail for only $500 and $800. And every HD display includes its own scaler, which for the most part perform very well when taking 1080i content for 720P displays. Product decisions are never easy, but this system was selected because it allows the vast majority of customers to see the best possible picture, while maintaining an accessible price point.

plazman

05-05-06, 08:00 PM

While I noted some major errors in their website information, I can't agree with this post. NEC actually had a very cool feature where you can rotate the plasma display to see all 360 degrees including the inputs. They had the wrong photo up in my case, but it was a very good feature. they just need to update the listed specs and the photos of the models so they are accurate. Otherwise, no complaints.

.

I didn't think about that. That's pretty cool indeed. They are pretty common with automobile manufacturers.

However, if you try to use their shopping cart feature, interesting things happen and incorrect items are added to the basket. Perhaps they've changed that now!

Well.....I guess it's not a big deal. How many people go to a web site in any case, especially when there is AVS Forum ;)

RoseRx

05-06-06, 02:38 PM

My NEC XR50A is mounted & seems to be working well. What do I do w/ the large cardboard box it was shipped in? Should I stash it in the attic, providing it will fit thru the drop down staircase opening? I noticed DHL had it enclosed in a sturdier container @ the time of delivery.

Cleveland Plasma

05-06-06, 02:43 PM

If you have the room for it keep it, especially for the first 30 days. You can also break it down to lay it flat somewhere. If you ever move you will need it.

yobob

05-06-06, 02:48 PM

Cleveland Plasma

05-06-06, 03:02 PM

I believe the NEC in-home warranty says they will come to your place if it needs work, and if there isn't a service center within 100 (?) miles, they will send you a box to ship it in.

If it was me, I would get rid of it.

my .01 (worth half as much)
50 miles....but you are right about them sending the box, but what if he moves? All in all it is a box.......recycle it.

hound

05-07-06, 01:50 AM

Sorry if this has already been answered, but I was too lazy to read through 96 pages. Does the 50xr5 have PC inputs?

Marky_Mark896

05-07-06, 07:26 AM

Sorry if this has already been answered, but I was too lazy to read through 96 pages. Does the 50xr5 have PC inputs?

Yes

agogley

05-07-06, 05:07 PM

get rid of the box. If you move you can either carry it yourself or crate it. I had mine crated it and it is a very easy process.

RoseRx

05-07-06, 09:40 PM

Agogley,

Who crated it for you & at what cost? You're right, I don't want to have to store that bulky cardboard box.

ducpham

05-07-06, 09:55 PM

cpcat

05-07-06, 10:01 PM

Sorry if this has already been answered, but I was too lazy to read through 96 pages. Does the 50xr5 have PC inputs?

Either it does, or I'm imagining this. :D

jvincent

05-07-06, 10:18 PM

Hi,

I scan thru this thread to find out how people connect their HTPC to the NECXR5 at native resoluation via DVI. If I didn't miss anything, it seems that it can only be done with the newer Nvidia cards i.e. 6600GT.

Has anyone sucessfully get the Radeon 9800 Pro to drive the NECXR5 at NR via DVI?

Thanks.

It's not possible with that generation of ATI cards. I tried everything I could, but wasn't able to get my 9700Pro to get 1:1 mapping.

The newer ones, X1600 or higher, are supposed to be able to do it but I haven't seen it myself.

ducpham

05-07-06, 11:29 PM

It's not possible with that generation of ATI cards. I tried everything I could, but wasn't able to get my 9700Pro to get 1:1 mapping.

The newer ones, X1600 or higher, are supposed to be able to do it but I haven't seen it myself.

JVincent,

Have you tried your 9700 Pro with PowerStrip?

I am going to try PowerStrip to see if there's any luck.

jvincent

05-08-06, 08:38 AM

JVincent,

Have you tried your 9700 Pro with PowerStrip?

I am going to try PowerStrip to see if there's any luck.

Yep. Tried pretty much everything I could in Powerstrip.

The piece that's missing from that generation of ATI cards is the ability generate single pixel timing for flat panels.

I was originally going to hold off on a new video card purchase until later this year, but the lack of 1:1 mapping on my 9700Pro pushed me to upgrade to a 6600GT earlier than I wanted to.

In the end it was a good move however since the 6600GT is a significant upgrade in PQ over the ATI.

BOSS10L

05-08-06, 12:05 PM

I've been on the fence for some time as to what to do on this whole thing as I have a Radeon 9800 Pro. I finally decided this weekend that until everything is finalized with HD-DVD, BD and Vista HW compatibility, I'm going to pick up a Mac Mini to use as a media server. I went to the local Apple store in the mall this weekend and was blown away at what Apple has done with the Mac in recent times. I haven't really used one in nearly 20 years, so it was a real eye-opening to me. I plan to pick up my Mini sometime between now and this weekend and can't wait to get it hooked up to the XR5. (Yes Essogas, I'm chewing on some crow as I type this. :D)

I will always be a PC guy too (games just are better on PC, no doubting that), but for right now it seems like the Mini does everything I need in a media server plus give me the option of running a whole other computer.

aranganath

05-08-06, 12:52 PM

billybob_jcv

05-08-06, 02:09 PM

I agree. I have several hardcore PC-centric coworkers that are considering the same thing - using a Mac Mini as the front-end of a networked media server system. If Apple is smart, they'll put a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive in it, bundle it with the bluetooth keyboard & a cool remote control, then market the heck out of it!

I would also make a black version for those of us who think the media components shouldn't be the primary focus point in the viewing area... ;)

BOSS10L

05-08-06, 02:13 PM

jvincent

05-08-06, 02:33 PM

BOSS10L

05-08-06, 02:39 PM

I remember when I said I'd always be a PC guy...

My MacBook Pro works great hooked up to my XR5 via DVI. I still haven't had a chance to tweak it to get native resolution, but since I mostly only use Front Row, 1080i out-of-the-box works like a champ.

Hey, hey, hey now, the computer gaming title still rests squarely within the halls of the PC's domain. :D

I'm very interested in your findings as I am considering the possibility of an iMac instead of a Mac mini, but I won't get an iMac unless it can 100% unequivocally be proven that the Radeon X1600 can support 1:1 pixel mapping on the XR5.

I love the SFF of the mini, but am a little worried about it's power (or possible lack thereof). Even with the Core Duo setup, it *seems* somewhat anemic for HD playback via Elgato or up-converted SD DVDs. And when I tweak with the configuration on the Apple store website to "bring it up to snuff", it's only $50 cheaper than a true iMac (I get discounts as a government employee).

That being said, the mini does support 1:1 pixel mapping on the XR5, so it would make it the obvious choice over the iMac if it does not support it.

Regardless, I am looking forward to delving in and learning more about these amazing machines and the great software.

BOSS10L

05-08-06, 10:31 PM

Cool factor of the mini aside, has anyone confirmed that you can get 1:1 mapping from the DVI port of the Mac? That would be a big non-starter for me now that I have seen the glory that is 1:1 mapping on my NEC.

The other thing I would consider is the quality of the actual decoder S/W for the Mac. While the front end / user interface is certainly very nice, I'm not sure that the MPEG decoders available for the Mac are up to par with the latest for Windoze.

Not trying to bash the Mac here, just highlighting that there may be technical issues.

Actually, upon further review, my jury is currently out for Apple and the XR5. There are some of Panny and Pio people who have it working on their PDPs, but at native resolutions such as:

"50PHD8UK and the mini booted into 1366x768 hooked up through DVI"

"I'm running 1280x768 on my pioneer 43" just fine and i like it much better than the 1024x768."

1366x768 is a relatively standard resolution, why has NEC decided to go with the one pixel off 1365x768 resolution?

Seeing as I can't pack up the XR5 and take it with me to the Apple store, maybe I can find a way to "audition" a Mac mini and an iMac here at the house. That is, unless aranganath can confirm or deny that the ATI Radeon X1600 can support 1365x768 on the XR5.

I suppose something like DisplayConfigX or SwitchResX (a la Powerstrip) could work, but I'd prefer something take native "out of the box".

The search for knowledge continues....

*Edit - Created a thread in the Mac HTPC area, let's see how it goes:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7623984#post7623984

ducpham

05-09-06, 01:38 AM

Hi,

May be a dump question but can Mac Mini be connected to a WinXP Media Server?

jvincent,

I don't have time to play game any more so can I use a lower profile card like Nvidia 6200 or 6600 to drive NECXR5 at NR?

Thanks.

wbe

05-09-06, 04:50 AM

Yes, I took the plunge, a la Wile E. Coyote going off a cliff... My first Plasma purchase.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH... Splat! :D

Many thanks for my flat face go to all the thread contributors here, at the Panny thread and the Pio thread, but particularly to CPcat, Tony, and Plazman. I appreciate all the honest comparisons and reviews you all made. In the end, I think what swayed it in NEC's favor was the 3 yr warranty, much less reported problems compared to those I read on the Panny and Pio threads (fan noise, stuck pixels, CSR hassles, cheap look, more expensive/no added value, to name a few), and the fact that given all the plasmas that Chris of Cleveland Plasma could have bought for himself, he chose the NEC. Given the fact that I had decided to buy one sight unseen (call me crazy), I really depended on all the detailed descriptions from Tony, CPcat, Plazman, and Chris to be my "eyes" for me.

Also, I'd like to thank Jamie at Invision Technologies (aka www.plasmaconnection.com) for her help and advice and making sure I considered all angles before taking the plunge. I went through practically all the NEC authorized internet resellers on NEC's website and over those three or four days, her's was in stock and the best deal I was able to find at that time.

I've been watching now for about 20 hrs or so, and am loving DVDs on it, and pleased with SD content for now (especially how it compared to other displays i saw at BB). I intend to make the HD Dish plunge in the future, but for now I am biding my time. Also, I intend to upgrade my DVD player from my Toshiba SD-1409X to I don't know what. Man, it just keeps on going... :rolleyes:

Anyway ,I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow... the "Now you see it, now you don't" setup.

Now that I have the set in home, I am much more relaxed about my decision to buy it. It is a nice looking set. My kids are all "wow!" I'm still getting over some buyer's remorse, but I now know I could not have gone wrong with my NEC or a Pio 5060 or a Panny commercial type. So at this point, I am looking at my purchase as a guarded success. But for some reason I can't stop smiling over the fact that I have one hanging in my house :) Neighbors are starting to talk.... ;)

tony17

05-09-06, 08:36 AM

^^^^^^^^ Congrats wbe, glad to see you finally took the plunge...now the fun begins!!! Get som HD on that thing to see what it really is capable of!!

jvincent

05-09-06, 08:38 AM

I don't have time to play game any more so can I use a lower profile card like Nvidia 6200 or 6600 to drive NECXR5 at NR?

Yes to the 6600.

You want to stay away from the 6200 because it is lacking a lot of "good" video processing features in the GPU.

wbe

05-09-06, 03:37 PM

Just a little history...

A year and a half ago, I told my wife it's time to upgrade our 27" Sony TV to something bigger and better. She said fine, as long as it fits in the entertainment center's TV cabinet area and the doors can close so I don't have to look at it. Great, no problem.

I picked out a 36" CRT in the $1000 range, it fits the height and width constraints and it looks like I'm good to go. Then my wife says,"Geez that looks pretty big. Are you sure it fits?"" Of course it does because I measured it :cool: . "What about depth," she asks. "DOH!!" I reply. Too deep. "Can't I just cut out the back of our custom made entertainment center?" I ask. :o No Way!! Back to the drawing board.

In order to get something CRT-wise that fits, I find my self having to go back down to the 32"-34" range... not the direction I want to go. So I start thinking about other options. And I see a 37" LCD panel. "Hey, that's pretty nice," I say to myself. Good on height and depth and just barely fits width. But, doggonnit, I only gain a little more than an inch in vertical screen size. I really do need bigger set so I can view it from 13'-15' away. What about a 42"?

Not even close... too wide. Stuck again. But wait, there's hope. My imagination kicks in. What about if I rig it so that the unit is stored in the cabinet in the vertical position when not viewing it, and then pulled out and rotated to the horizontal position to view it? BINGO!! I find the mount that works, do some structural reinforcement behind the cabinet for the mount an TV, and whaddya know, I can fit a 50" unit! Wahoo! :D Look what I did dear!!! She thought I was going to shatter all her antiques during the installation process, but I didn't. I got everything mounted, plugged in and, Voila, beautiful home theater... and the TV fits inside the cabinet with the doors closed! She was impressed. Mission accomplished! ;)

BTW, the cantilever wall mount I am using is an Omnimount CL-L with a UAL universal adapter. The self-centering UAL worked perfectly and fit the 50XR5A to a T. The mount works really well. There are screws at every joint location to tighten or loosen their movement to suit your preference. The channels available for cable management are not even close to being able to accommodate all the cables that are leading to or from the panel. Omnimount needs to send that feature back to the drawing board. But other than that, I am very pleased with it. Strong, sturdy, little to no sag when extended, adjustable joint friction with allen wrenches.

BOSS10L

05-09-06, 04:12 PM

Very nice wbe! Way to get the WAF up into the stratosphere! :cool:

Marky_Mark896

05-09-06, 04:31 PM

Yeah wbe good job. Much better than having a 36" crt in there.

Marky_Mark896

05-09-06, 04:34 PM

Jim Hef

05-09-06, 04:36 PM

BOSS10L

05-09-06, 04:45 PM

Oh yeah, btw, I am happy to report that my stupid noggin logo burn-in is all but gone. It has taken a good 3-4 days of pretty constant running, but there is almost no visible evidence of it. I still think I can see it on very still, very solid color backgrounds, but not really. No one else would be able to see it. I have been letting the girls only watch noggin on this set with it zoomed in so much that the logo is completely off of the screen. It takes a bit away from the shows, but not enough to upset a 4 year old. That logo is nasty, because no other channel including CNN or other news channels logos and news tickers have ever caused any problem other than temporary image retention that disappeared in a couple minutes. It's too bad too, because it's a great channel for kids other than that.

Right after I posted about the Noggin logo, I noticed the next morning that I had some IR with the Nickelodeon logo in the lower right-hand corner after the kids had been watching some Saturday cartoons. Within about 2-3 hours later of varied TV watching, it had disappeared completely.

From now on, if the kids are watching, it goes into the most zoomed mode it can (usually 2.35:1). The kids don't seem to notice, and I breathe a little better. Of course, the much more simple solution is to make sure my kids aren't watching that much TV anyway. I agree though, channels like Noggin and PBS Kids Sprout are great. My 3 year-old really enjoys them, and even the 8 year-old and mom/dad get into the act as well occasionally. :eek: :D

Glad to hear everything worked out though!

wbe

05-09-06, 05:37 PM

wbe, you are the man! That's truly thinking outside the box...or is it inside the box??? However, you may want to consider reworking it sometime and placing the reinforcing block to the rear of the cabinet so it doesn't show at any time. Even if it's stained to match, it would still look clunkier than need be. Something to think about.

Thanks for the comments, all.

Jim, you're absolutely right about trying to make the reinforcing block less noticeable. The first and most obvious way, of course, is with a dark stain. I'll try that route first. As far as hiding it altogether, unfortunately the block doubles as a spacer from the back of the cabinet to allow the arm of the mount to extend far enough beyond the cabinet doors so the display can be rotated into place clear of the doors. The arm didn't have the distance on its own.

Chief makes a mount that extends far enough, but the elbow to elbow distance was too wide for the cabinet. Also, the Omnimount option was about $500-$600 cheaper than the Chief option. And, of course, I could then apply that savings to a higher quality panel. :)

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Marky_Mark896

05-09-06, 05:50 PM

I think a dark stain will hide it enough wbe in the back of that cabinet.

techjunky2

05-10-06, 09:10 AM

I am going to post another pic of my Xr5 and my in wall component mount since I did'nt even get one comment on the install. :( I worked really hard on this! I also did every inch on my own. By the way, I watched my first full length DVD on it last night. My wife commented on how good the picture was. :) I told her that the new Voom channels we have now with our VIP 211 Sat box are even better. One question though. I have a Denon 2800 DVD player(couple years old) and it does a fantastic job with the XR5. Does this (OPP0) DVD player really outperform others by a notcable amount? Oh and forgive me, what does "oppo" stand for?

Jim Hef

05-10-06, 09:18 AM

...the block doubles as a spacer from the back of the cabinet to allow the arm of the mount to extend far enough beyond the cabinet doors....
Sounds like dark stain is the trick!!!

Marky_Mark896

05-10-06, 09:22 AM

techjunky2

05-10-06, 09:26 AM

Looks good techjunky. What brand of speakers are those?
I bought a whole line up of Polk speakers. Fronts, center, and rears. The only thing I did not replace is my sub. a B&W 650.

BOSS10L

05-10-06, 09:52 AM

I bought a whole line up of Polk speakers. Fronts, center, and rears. The only thing I did not replace is my sub. a B&W 650.

I did the same Polk route, although based on the pictures of yours, I went the, ahem, more affordable route (translation - I'm poor :D). Seriously though, I love my Polks, and I picked them up for little more than a song and dance....

Fronts: Polk R30s
Center: Polk CSi25
Rears: Polk R15s

Oppo is a brand of DVD player.

techjunky2

05-10-06, 10:40 AM

I did the same Polk route, although based on the pictures of yours, I went the, ahem, more affordable route (translation - I'm poor :D). Seriously though, I love my Polks, and I picked them up for little more than a song and dance....

Fronts: Polk R30s
Center: Polk CSi25
Rears: Polk R15s

Oppo is a brand of DVD player.
Great speakers no doubt. I love them so far. I went with the Monitor 60's(front), the Monitor 40's (rear) and the CSI5 for the (center). All in all I spent a little over $1k on the speaker makeover. I don't believe in spending ridiculous amounts on speakers because unless you are an audiophile listening to records, you can buy outstanding speakers for a much more realistic price. I have owned more expensive speakers, but when you have a decent power supply such as my Denon 4800(AVR), you can make affordable speakers sound far better than you would expect.

mfowler70

05-10-06, 03:09 PM

Greeeaaaat. I finally get set on the Panny 50PHD8uk and then happen to run across this thread from a cross-link. My wife is really getting sick of my waffling.... :)

Looks like a few more long nights of researching are in my future.

Dufusyte

05-10-06, 04:23 PM

From now on, if the kids are watching, it goes into the most zoomed mode it can
Or you could just zoom a couple pixels one way or the other to offset the logo, and every week vary the zoom by a couple pixels one way or the other so the logo is never quite in the same spot.

i guess

muttt

05-10-06, 04:55 PM

Wow, I can't believe I read this whole thread... but I did!

I'm about to take the plunge on a 42XR4. I have a quick question or two that won't affect my purchase either way, but I'm curious.

Quick story on me -
I purchased a 50" Panny 8UK a few months ago and there was a problem with delivery... which was actually a blessing in disguise. As it turned out, I was forced to vacate my current apartment and move in to a new place next week. I found this out back when I ordered the Panny. I say the delivery error was a blessing because I was able to avoid setting up a nice big plasma and then having to move it across Manhattan 2 months later.

Anyway, as it turns out, I'm going to be sitting 5-6' from the display (unlike 10' at my old place) and I personally prefer a 42" screen from that distance. And the 42xr4 it is! I'm very excited to order it in a week or two.

ANYWAY, on to the questions:

1. I believe this was asked somewhere in the thread but never answered. Are the NEC's split screen and/or PIP functions available for use with HD3 and HD4, together? I.e., can I split screen two HDMI sources?

2. This is a modified requery of something I originally asked in the 8UK thread.

Basically, I'd like to use my (IBM) laptop with the XR4 on occasion. But I want to be free to use my laptop all over the apartment. Now that I'm sitting so close to the TV, I don't mind just running a 5 or 6-foot VGA cable and plugging it in to my laptop when I need to. But that raises two issues:

a. Is it a bad idea to have an unconnected VGA cable out there, even if I sit it on a piece of wood furniture when not in use (and presumably avoid switching over to the VGA input on the TV when unconnected)?

b. What should I do about connecting the TV to the laptop, power-wise? Will I fry either one of the devices if they're both on? Should they both be off? One on? Etc.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for this amazing, informative thread.

Phil Manley

05-10-06, 06:15 PM

Recently purchased two NEC plasmas. One 50xr5 and one 42xr. I also got the tilt wall mounts and speakers for both. I bought all from Chris at Cleveland Plasma. Thanks Chris for a great experience. Could not have gone any better. I did a lot of checking and finally decided to go with Chris based on this forum and I am glad I did.

The 50xr5 was installed in my great room. The leather recliner I watch the set from is about 12' away. I was worried about the height, as the tv is mounted on a rock wall above my fireplace, but it ended up perfectly. The set was professionally installed, as I had my house cable installer install the sets. I am using dish satellite and the dish installer was there at the same time the tv installer was there. I have a surround sound system (front & back wall speakers, bass speaker and center channel below tv) with a denon receiver. The installers also figured out how to utilize both the tv speakers and the surround sound speakers with my harmony remote. Basically I mute the surround sound and turn up the volume of the tv speaker, when I want to listen to just the tv.

The sets are just beautiful hanging on the wall. Just the right about of black and silver.

The picture on both sets was nothing short of perfect. Regular tv is as good as I've seen. And HD is even better. I haven't noticed any of the talk about images staying on the screen or any of the other negative comments made.

If there is a better set out there, I haven't seen it.

My home theatre installers told me when they were done that those two tv's had the best picture of any they have ever installed.

techjunky2

05-10-06, 08:19 PM

RoseRx

05-10-06, 08:34 PM

I too bought an NEC 50XR5A sight unseen & Sanus wall tilt mount from Chris @ Cleveland Plasma. His price was best, the delivery time was a mere few days and his knows the product. There were some minor glitches in the installation, but he was available via telephone and we worked thru them. The set has worked like a charm w/ a great picture. If I had to do it over again, I would buy the same unit from the same source.

Unclejeff

05-10-06, 08:51 PM

It has been quite the trip reading these last few pages of this thread...on my 50XM5 plasma via my Apple G5 DVI cable. I have had my 50XM5 since Superbowl (Thanks, Chris...) and have been watching Satellite and DVDs and I only just decided to give it a try with my computer.

LisaM

05-10-06, 08:52 PM

Congrats to all of the new NEC owners. Our numbers here really seem to be multiplying.

wbe

05-10-06, 09:34 PM

I am going to post another pic of my Xr5 and my in wall component mount since I did'nt even get one comment on the install. :( I worked really hard on this! I also did every inch on my own...

I, for one, can appreciate the work you had to do. Kudos on the do-it-yourself method. Thanks for the pix. Classy looking setup.

..... I was worried about the height, as the tv is mounted on a rock wall above my fireplace, but it ended up perfectly....

Wow, on a rock wall? That sounds cool. Any pix?

RoseRx... any pix? It is always fun to see new setups.

Congrats, guys! (and gal? :) )

Pete7874

05-10-06, 10:11 PM

essogas

05-10-06, 11:19 PM

BOSS10L

05-11-06, 08:03 AM

ANYWAY, on to the questions:

1. I believe this was asked somewhere in the thread but never answered. Are the NEC's split screen and/or PIP functions available for use with HD3 and HD4, together? I.e., can I split screen two HDMI sources?

Not sure. I would *assume* so, but I too am very interested in what the answer to this is.

2. This is a modified requery of something I originally asked in the 8UK thread.

Basically, I'd like to use my (IBM) laptop with the XR4 on occasion. But I want to be free to use my laptop all over the apartment. Now that I'm sitting so close to the TV, I don't mind just running a 5 or 6-foot VGA cable and plugging it in to my laptop when I need to. But that raises two issues:

a. Is it a bad idea to have an unconnected VGA cable out there, even if I sit it on a piece of wood furniture when not in use (and presumably avoid switching over to the VGA input on the TV when unconnected)?

b. What should I do about connecting the TV to the laptop, power-wise? Will I fry either one of the devices if they're both on? Should they both be off? One on? Etc.

A) Naah. I mean, sure, it isn't the most optimal idea, but as long as it is covered, so no dust/dirt/moisture gets in there, you should be okay. I ordered cables from www.monoprice.com and their cables came with dust covers on the ends.

B) I would make sure the laptop as well as the TV is plugged into a surge protector. It probably wouldn't hurt to look into renter's insurance and make sure it covers electronics.

Congrats, and enjoy the NEC!

BOSS10L

05-11-06, 08:19 AM

BOSS10L

05-11-06, 08:20 AM

lol. Apple just made it so simple. They are also bringing out a full fledged media server box too. Probably at next January's Mac Keynote.

I know. Part of me wants to wait until then, but patience has never been a virtue I've had any luck with. :D

muttt

05-11-06, 09:59 AM

techjunky2

05-11-06, 10:00 AM

Sorry if this has been covered on one of the previous 100 pages, but doesn't the silver trim around the perimeter and the silver table stand stick out like a sore thumb when watching the TV in a darkened room? Personally I always prefer all black as the reflectionss off of silver/shiny element detract from the viewing experience. Usually when it's all black, it blends nicely into the background and there is less light reflection.
Hello Pete, my name happens to be Pete also. :rolleyes: The silver trim has absolutely no impact when viewing this display(XR5) The only reason it stands out in the pictures I listed a couple threads earlier is because of the flash from my camera. When I am viewing the XR5 without any lights on, the picture seems to come from the wall. You don't notice even a hint of the silver trim around the display. I guess the trim just adds to the sexy look of the Xr5 when it's powered off. I am biased as many others, but for good reason. It's hard to find flaws in this beauty, the (XR5). :D

haveoneolboy

05-11-06, 11:07 AM

BOSS10L

05-11-06, 11:20 AM

Alas, I am a slave to DirecTV for as long as they have a stranglehold on NFL Sunday Ticket. :(

There has been talk (even if only within my head) of also adding Dish as well for some of the exclusive HD content. :D

BOSS10L

05-11-06, 11:23 AM

Boss10L - thanks for the answers!

My HDMI sources will be DVD and STB, and I doubt I'd ever need to PIP/SS 'em. I envision doing so w/ my PS2 (component) and PC (VGA) now and then. Was just curious, as it was asked in the thread but never answered.

I can't wait to get through with the move so I can order the darn thing. I'll post pics when it's all done...

No prob, that's what we're all here for! :cool:

Hmm...you bring up some VERY interesting thoughts...

Madden '07 on the 360 in one SS, NFL Sunday Ticket in HD on the other.... Football overload....
:headbang:

techjunky2

05-11-06, 01:28 PM

Anyone else watching RAVE on Dish Network? I can't get enough of this channel. HD concerts 24 hours a day!! Yesterday I watched Dave Matthew Band, Cindi Lauper, Eric Clapton, The Cure & Sheryl Crow. The picture and sound is just amazing.
I just got the Voom channels through DISH Network and I can't seem to keep a constant signal for more than 15 minutes at a time. I am getting really irritated with this problem. I would like to be able to watch these new channels, but then they start to pixalize and then black out completely. I live in Midwest Wisconsin. Is this a nornal occurence?

haveoneolboy

05-11-06, 02:40 PM

I just got the Voom channels through DISH Network and I can't seem to keep a constant signal for more than 15 minutes at a time. I am getting really irritated with this problem. I would like to be able to watch these new channels, but then they start to pixalize and then black out completely. I live in Midwest Wisconsin. Is this a nornal occurence?

I have never had 1 glitch with mine. Just hours and hours of HD video and 5.1 digital. Do you have the 622 receiver? This is the latest and greatest. Also, check your signal meter and make sure it is over 110. If not, get someone out to adjust the dish for a better signal.

techjunky2

05-11-06, 03:09 PM

I have never had 1 glitch with mine. Just hours and hours of HD video and 5.1 digital. Do you have the 622 receiver? This is the latest and greatest. Also, check your signal meter and make sure it is over 110. If not, get someone out to adjust the dish for a better signal.
I have the Vip211 which is also the latest Dish has to offer. You get a signal of 110! That is unheard of. I can't even get close to a signal that high. Right now I am struggling to get a signal of 50 for the Voom channels. I am having a technican come out on Friday to point the dish again. The Dish representative told me that a signal above 70 would be a good one. I can't belive you can get 110! :eek:

muttt

05-11-06, 04:06 PM

haveoneolboy

05-11-06, 04:07 PM

I have the Vip211 which is also the latest Dish has to offer. You get a signal of 110! That is unheard of. I can't even get close to a signal that high. Right now I am struggling to get a signal of 50 for the Voom channels. I am having a technican come out on Friday to point the dish again. The Dish representative told me that a signal above 70 would be a good one. I can't belive you can get 110! :eek:

My signal fluctuates between 112 and 115. I was told by the installer that it needs to be around 100 for solid HD.

techjunky2

05-11-06, 07:40 PM

My signal fluctuates between 112 and 115. I was told by the installer that it needs to be around 100 for solid HD.
Solid Hd? Not sure what you mean by that. If satellite reception is anything like OTA antenna reception for HD, either you get the signal, or you don't. I spoke to my cable installer and he said he hopes to boost my signal from around 50 to a possible 80 or so . When the signal drops much below 50 I lose everything. Blackout. The picture is fine and actually stunning as long as I can maintain a sat. signal. If I can maintain a steady Sat. signal I will be satisfied. By the way, SD programming is very good with the XR5 paired with the Dish 211.

Unclejeff

05-11-06, 09:27 PM

On the HD D* feed, there are a number of threads over at DBSTALK.com

Lots of frustration with that third satellite. It is not supposed to be working at full power, or something. I was following the threads when the 622 first came out but have not been back in over 60 days. Do a search on 622 and follow the thread. Some help available on hardware, etc. Good luck.

BOSS10L

05-11-06, 10:18 PM

Ok, I just looked at the manual online. Page EN-14 has a chart on compatible split screen sources, and HDMIx2 is not available.

[Edited to note:] There is no similar chart for PIP, so it might be possible using PIP.

Bummer on the HDMI and SS. Oh well, we own NEC plasmas, we can't have everything, can we? ;) :D

haveoneolboy

05-12-06, 09:31 AM

Solid Hd? Not sure what you mean by that. If satellite reception is anything like OTA antenna reception for HD, either you get the signal, or you don't.

I mean that with a signal at around 100 you will not lose your picture or see any glitches. If your signal is low, it will skip, delay, & jump. It isn't a case of its here or it's not here like OTA HD.

Peterlubit

05-12-06, 06:10 PM

I am thinking of buying NEC edtv. Since you had a 42vr5, do you think 42vm5 or 42vp5 are also good? Why did you get 42vr5 over those?

tony17

05-12-06, 08:18 PM

I am thinking of buying NEC edtv. Since you had a 42vr5, do you think 42vm5 or 42vp5 are also good? Why did you get 42vr5 over those?

Peter, not sure who you were talking to, but I will answer since I have the 42VR5. Yes, the VM5 and VP5 are also good TV's, however the VP5 is more for industrial use (different coating on the glass to reduce reflections). My father picked up the VM5 and it is identical to the VR5 picture quality wise. The only differnces are a black bezel, 1 yr warranty instead of 3yr and the menus are a bit different. The reason I got the VR5 is for the warranty and at the time I wanted a silver bezel. Good luck....it's a great panel if you do choose it.

Peterlubit

05-12-06, 08:44 PM

Peter, not sure who you were talking to, but I will answer since I have the 42VR5. Yes, the VM5 and VP5 are also good TV's, however the VP5 is more for industrial use (different coating on the glass to reduce reflections). My father picked up the VM5 and it is identical to the VR5 picture quality wise. The only differnces are a black bezel, 1 yr warranty instead of 3yr and the menus are a bit different. The reason I got the VR5 is for the warranty and at the time I wanted a silver bezel. Good luck....it's a great panel if you do choose it.

Thanks Tony. I was really confused about VR5 and VM5 because in NEC website, they state that VR5 is HD compatible and VM5 doesn't say so. One dealer even told me that VR5 is HDTV. I think that rep was just misinformed. From your experience, are you happy watching HD with this EDTV? I concluded that a good EDTV is better than a so so HDTV. I was going to buy a Fujitsu EDTV, but it didn't work out so now I am researching NEC.

Since I can't see any NEC in person, I am also worried about how it looks. Is the silver bezel good looking color? I really hate the panasonic edtv silver. But Fujitsu silver looks really good.

techjunky2

05-12-06, 09:28 PM

I mean that with a signal at around 100 you will not lose your picture or see any glitches. If your signal is low, it will skip, delay, & jump. It isn't a case of its here or it's not here like OTA HD.
My signal drops out at around 50. I had the installer come back today and my signal is now in the mid 60's and 70's on this very cloudy and rainy day. I am having no dropout issues now at this signal strenghth. HD is fabulous on this XR5! Simply awesome. I can't help but sit back and smile. :)

techjunky2

05-12-06, 09:31 PM

Thanks Tony. I was really confused about VR5 and VM5 because in NEC website, they state that VR5 is HD compatible and VM5 doesn't say so. One dealer even told me that VR5 is HDTV. I think that rep was just misinformed. From your experience, are you happy watching HD with this EDTV? I concluded that a good EDTV is better than a so so HDTV. I was going to buy a Fujitsu EDTV, but it didn't work out so now I am researching NEC.

Since I can't see any NEC in person, I am also worried about how it looks. Is the silver bezel good looking color? I really hate the panasonic edtv silver. But Fujitsu silver looks really good.
Peter, the silver frame around the XR5 is very appealing. No worries. It is a far more attractive than the Pany design. If you are referring to another model, I can't give you an opinion, I havent seen them in person.

Unclejeff

05-12-06, 09:58 PM

Anyone else watching RAVE on Dish Network? I can't get enough of this channel. HD concerts 24 hours a day!! Yesterday I watched Dave Matthew Band, Cindi Lauper, Eric Clapton, The Cure & Sheryl Crow. The picture and sound is just amazing.

This post sparked me to do some searching and I just found out that Dish just started with local channel HD broadcasting in my area two days ago. I have a 622 on order. Signals are now coming in with MPEG 4.

This is in the San FRancisco Bay Area. It seems they are ahead of schedule so it might be wise to do some investigating.

MisterEd

05-12-06, 11:14 PM

No, I wasn't worried but I was very surpised on how fast it appeared. About 300 hrs on my 50xr5 and for the first time I forgot to stretch (I use the 2.35 mode)a "black side barred" show. After less then 15 minutes I realized it and switched to HDNET There were two big dark vertical bars on both sides .... they went away after about 30-40 minutes of watching HDNET but it didn't look too swift. Although I knew it wasn't permanent the sweat did form on my brow when I saw it.

I'm having it ISF calibrated in 2 weeks .... maybe that will prevent it somewhat when they set proper brightness levels. I do run it in "bright" mode using the settings from the other thread.

konoyaro

05-12-06, 11:15 PM

Since the 50xr5 does not have a cable/f-pin input, what options are there for converting to cabling accepted by the monitor? I'm not aware of any f-pin to s-video, composite, etc. converters. :-/

Barraca

05-13-06, 07:05 AM

I was thinking about MisterEd recent post......
Is it really good when you watch 4:3 content or letterbox DVD without stretching to have the panel in "bright" mode??? Even for short periods of time......
Maybe using another more "soft" mode will avoid this from happening so quickly.... Thoughts???? :rolleyes:

big_marcelo

05-13-06, 07:19 AM

Hi, I spent quote a bit of time today playing with an NEC 42" XR4.

I was calibrating it with DVE disk, and used some of the settings posted here in the forum - thanks.

Finally managed to watch Australian Football on it and didn't notice any judder watching 50hz material... pretty excellent. :)

The only question I had is the following. I noticed a lot of grain in the image watching HD TV (1080i) and SD TV (576i) - the grain was clearly visible up to about 8 feet away. Ofer Laor noted this also in his review of HT Secrets. I hadn't noticed this before watching DVD on the set (always looked brilliant) - so watching TV (via Component) was eye opening for me on the XR4.

I tried NR 1, NR 2 & NR 3 - it didn't remove the grain from the image.

Unfortunately, I didn't have an XR5 to compare with.

____________________________________________________________

So, my questions are for owners of the XR5, or people who have been able to compare the XR4 42" and the XR5 50" -

1) does the XR5 50" also has a lot of 'grain' on the image from sd tv/hd tv sources?

2) how far away from the set do you still notice the grain?

__________________________________________________________

Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Marcelo

cpcat

05-13-06, 08:21 AM

1) does the XR5 50" also has a lot of 'grain' on the image from sd tv/hd tv sources?

2) how far away from the set do you still notice the grain?

__________________________________________________________

Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Marcelo

I see no grain at all at any distance. Up close say <5ft there are the usual digital artifacts which depend on signal quality. It's possible the grain you saw has to do with artificially high contrast settings.

Re: Bright mode. I have continued to decrease my contrast level to minimize "black shifting" which occurs with the bright mode. My contrast/brightness is currenty 38/41 respectively. This seems to be about equivalent in overall punch to about 50/36 in Normal mode. At these levels I have no real concern for added propensity of IR. I watch 2.35 HDDVD's now and don't really worry any more but still vary programming. I'm at around 800 hours.

big_marcelo

05-13-06, 10:30 AM

I see no grain at all at any distance. Up close say <5ft there are the usual digital artifacts which depend on signal quality. It's possible the grain you saw has to do with artificially high contrast settings.

Re: Bright mode. I have continued to decrease my contrast level to minimize "black shifting" which occurs with the bright mode. My contrast/brightness is currenty 38/41 respectively. This seems to be about equivalent in overall punch to about 50/36 in Normal mode. At these levels I have no real concern for added propensity of IR. I watch 2.35 HDDVD's now and don't really worry any more but still vary programming. I'm at around 800 hours.

Thanks cpcat! I thought this was more of a 'feature' on the XR4 - I need to see them again side by side.

Many thanks (as usual).

Regards,

Marcelo

ddingle

05-13-06, 10:41 AM

Does anyone know how the Power Management feature works on the current NEC line? If it is on how long will it take to turn off if there is no signal present? Or if that is how it works? Thanks

BuckaTune

05-13-06, 03:08 PM

Hello all,

I am proud to say that I received my NEC 50XR5 earlier this week and I have already wall mounted it and I am starting to break it in. I am happy to report that the panel is in perfect condition with no dead or stuck pixels. What a fantastic panel!!!

I also wanted to thank all the contributors to this thread for making the initial "blind leap" of faith and sharing their experiences with the rest of us.

I do have one question, could anyone who has successfully gone into the service menu of the set please private message me on how they did it. I am just interested in seeing the panel life counter.

I am currently in the process of breaking in the panel, so basically leaving no static images on the screen and I have turned the brightness, contrast and sharpness down. I plan on doing this for approximately 100 hours, but if anyone can suggest something better please let me know.

I will try and post some pictures of the setup very soon.

DAB

05-13-06, 03:16 PM

MrEd, and others RE: IR
When i started seeing IR on the screen after viewing. I just went into Screen swipe(It's in the manul). The picture was back to normal in about a min. I have seen very light IR when i first started view. Not much/none.. now. Delivery date 12-23-05.
db

MisterEd

05-13-06, 04:05 PM

http://www.bruzzi.ws/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=148

I do have one question, could anyone who has successfully gone into the service menu of the set please private message me on how they did it. I am just interested in seeing the panel life counter.

RoseRx

05-13-06, 10:09 PM

How low did you lower the Contrast & Brightness for the 100 hr break-in period? I went 15 & 10. The picture is not great, but I can live w/ it for a few weeks.

Barraca

05-13-06, 10:36 PM

Cpcat & DAB.
Thanks for the info!!!! :)

BOSS10L

05-13-06, 11:38 PM

I put my settings to cpcat's and ran the "break-in" DVD for about 120-ish hours. I then hooked up my sources, and liked the picture enough to not really mess with it too much.

RoseRx

05-14-06, 05:26 PM

Where is the serial # located either on the set or the box for the 50XR5A? I see a whole series of #'s on the labels on the box, but I am not certain which is the serial #.

Marky_Mark896

05-14-06, 06:14 PM

BOSS10L

05-15-06, 12:47 PM

Ok, just for an update, I have 1225 hours on my display so far... That's in 3 months.
Looks like I will get about 146 months out of a set at our current usage (or someone just leaving it on). So that's 12.25 years...by that time I'm positive I'll be changing sets...

Wow...I'm almost at 400 hours in about 2 months, and I'm always harping on the family to turn it off if they're not actively watching it. :D

Cleveland Plasma

05-15-06, 01:06 PM

Where is the serial # located either on the set or the box for the 50XR5A? I see a whole series of #'s on the labels on the box, but I am not certain which is the serial #.
On the panel above the video inputs, on the right side as you are looking at the screen, there should be a sticker with the model and VIN #.

BOSS10L

05-15-06, 04:16 PM

Okay...those that have taken the plunge and purchased Toshiba's HD-DVD players....What do you think? Worth it? The wife and I were at Best Buy yesterday and she was watching the demos being played on the HD-A1. First she remarked at how much smaller the screen on the 42" Westy was compared to our XR5 (this was the same woman who thought our 30" CRT Sony was "good enough") and then she raved about the picture quality difference between HD-DVD and SD-DVD.

I tempted fate (especially on Mother's Day) and slyly asked the salesperson if they had any in stock, and he replied that not only do none of the BB stores within a 100 mile radius not have any, but they can't order them either.

Long story short, she's a HD-DVD fan and given the green light on the HD-A1. I'm gonna take this proverbial ball and run with it. I've done some searching, and I can't find one ANYWHERE (except for Ebay). I have found one trusted AVS "e-tailer" who currently has the XA1 in stock, but is expecting their next shipment of A1's by the end of the week.

So....That being said:

1) What do you think? Is the PQ on them when using NEC plasmas "all that as advertised"?

2) Have you experienced the issues that many other Toshiba owners have? I've got a Harmony 880 so I'm hoping to run it via that and solve the remote issues, but my wife's (not to mention mine) glee will soon turn to disgust if our HD-DVD movies are freezing up and losing sync.

3) Is the XA1 worth the extra $300? This dealer is offering "incentives" to make the deal quite a bit sweeter, but it's still noticeably more expensive. $499 MSRP is one thing for her to agree to, it might be tough to crack at $799 if this dealer isn't getting the A1's in when they are planning on it.

4) If I pick up a HD-DVD player right now, I won't be fixing up my PC into an HTPC anytime soon. Which means I can't stream movies over the network. Anyone know if the A1 or XA1 will play backups of movies I legally own? Another issue is my scuba dive videos. Most of them are created in iDVD and then burned will play in my RCA DVD player but not my Panasonic. I need something that will play all of my formats.

Thanks in advance...

cpcat

05-15-06, 04:32 PM

Okay...those that have taken the plunge and purchased Toshiba's HD-DVD players....What do you think? Worth it?..

I have the A1. The picture is nothing short of spectacular for HDDVD and really nice for 1080i upconverted SD as well. I'd recc. using only the 1080i output over HDMI as the 720p output is less than adequate. This works just fine with our NEC's as they seem to have excellent 1080i processing. Make sure you keep "cinema" on to activate the NEC 1080i film processing.

It's slow and sort of clunky though, but I consider it well worth it.

There are some issues like the lack of BTB and peak white which should be fixed via firmware upgrade. Don't let people tell you this makes a huge difference in pq. The effects of this had to be pointed out to me or I would have never been able to tell. Basically, you may get mild loss of detail in very bright white areas. Also, the LFE channel on the 5.1 analog output seems around -10db in level. This requires some fiddling to get everything balanced but I think I've got it now. I use a 5.0 system so it makes it even more difficult as the player will not re-route the LFE for it's analog outputs if you don't use the .1 channel. I've figured out a work-around but it won't be necessary for you if you have a standard 5.1 configuration. Also, if you plan to use coaxial/toslink connection you'll need DTS compatibility as it only output DTS through this connection by design.

The differences in the A1 and the XA1 are purely cosmetic except the XA1 has an RS-232 port. I wouldn't think the extra cost is worth it for the XA1. Finding one of these may be another thing altogether. BB, Sears, and Tweeter carry the A1. Walmart has the D1 which is identical to the A1 except it's all black.

plazman

05-15-06, 04:45 PM

I have the A1. The picture is nothing short of spectacular for HDDVD and really nice for 1080i upconverted SD as well. I'd recc. using only the 1080i output over HDMI as the 720p output is less than adequate. This works just fine with our NEC's as they seem to have excellent 1080i processing. Make sure you keep "cinema" on to activate the NEC 1080i film processing.

It's slow and sort of clunky though, but I consider it well worth it.

There are some issues like the lack of BTB and peak white which should be fixed via firmware upgrade. Don't let people tell you this makes a huge difference in pq. The effects of this had to be pointed out to me or I would have never been able to tell. Basically, you may get mild loss of detail in very bright white areas. Also, the LFE channel on the 5.1 analog output seems around -10db in level. This requires some fiddling to get everything balanced but I think I've got it now. I use a 5.0 system so it makes it even more difficult as the player will not re-route the LFE for it's analog outputs if you don't use the .1 channel. I've figured out a work-around but it won't be necessary for you if you have a standard 5.1 configuration. Also, if you plan to use coaxial/toslink connection you'll need DTS compatibility as it only output DTS through this connection by design.

The differences in the A1 and the XA1 are purely cosmetic except the A1 has an RS-232 port. I wouldn't think the extra cost is worth it for the XA1. Finding one of these may be another thing altogether. BB, Sears, and Tweeter carry the A1. Walmart has the D1 which is identical to the A1 except it's all black.

I concur. I would not spend the extra 300 for the XA-1. However, I do have the XA-1, because all A-1 were sold out in my area. Having said that I love the XA-1. This works very well with the XR5, I've never had any issues whatsoever!

Auroraboy

05-15-06, 05:21 PM

After far too much thinking about it, I have pulled the trigger on a new 50XR5. It was between the XR5, the new Panasonic consumer 50PX60 and the commercial Panny 50 PHD8UK. As much as I like Panasonic, I simply did not like the all silver 50PX60, and the NEC was of similar value when compared to the 8UK, but came with a few more standard features and slightly better warranty. The 8UK still seems to be most people's reference standard for blacks, so we will see how the XR5 does. I live in Toronto, Canada, so I have never seen the XR5 in person. Taking a leap of faith from all the + feedback on this forum, that I will be happy with the XR5.

I have not decided whether to wall mount, or buy the NEC table stand. I am leaning towards wall mounting, and hiding the cables without having to drill holes in the wall. Will likely have some sort of cabinet/stand underneath the plasma to house cable box, DVD, receiver, centre channel etc.

My local cable provider uses the Motorola DCT 6200 decoder box for HD. The unit appears to have DVI and component out.

Am I correct that my first choice would be a DVI to HDMI cable for feeding the HD signal from decoder to Plasma, and second choice would be component cables?

cirob

05-15-06, 06:02 PM

I had the moto 6200 with the dvi, I had a strange problem using the dvi connection, the picture was green no matter what adjustment I made, at first I thought the display were at fault. Asked my next door neighbor to borrow is box for a test and same greenish screen. Comcast replaced the box with the 6412 with hdmi no more problems tested the dvi and was fine. This seems to be the latest box, ask your cable co if they have them,
the box is a dvr and they charge a little more for it but it's worth it imo.
Good luck with your tv, I have been very happy with mine especially after pairing it with the A1 :)

BuckaTune

05-15-06, 06:17 PM

Quick Question to All the owners.

Do you watch 2.35:1 movies in the Anamorphic setting, and or do you "zoom in" with the 2.35:1 picture mode that fills the full screen?

If you do use the Anamorphic pictures settings, do you worry about the pixels unevenly wearing out, b/c the top and bottom will have the black bars?

Thank you.

cirob

05-15-06, 06:17 PM

Boss try sears or wallmart, sears in mass had quite a few in stock , i bought 3 and send them to italy with few movies. Last night I watched doom not much of a movie but a lots of dark scene, great picture, the nec does shine in hd. Went next door and popped in the movie to check the pq of my neighbor's elite, same thing, beautiful. I can't wait for the elite 1080p, I called magnolia and the salesman said they are going to start taking orders next month. The nec in my espn room with the A1 the pioneer in the living room with blue ray :)

wbe

05-15-06, 07:26 PM

...Do you watch 2.35:1 movies in the Anamorphic setting, and or do you "zoom in" with the 2.35:1 picture mode that fills the full screen?

If you do use the Anamorphic pictures settings, do you worry about the pixels unevenly wearing out, b/c the top and bottom will have the black bars?
Thank you.

I am still in the 100 hr break-in period, so I am not risking any black bar effect for potential image retention reasons (not that I'm overly concerned about this. So far any retention I've noticed has disappeared by just watching different shows or movies, etc). So I think I have used the 2.35:1 setting, and if that doesn't remove them completely, I use the ZOOM setting to make the bars disappear.

Peterlubit

05-15-06, 09:46 PM

Does anyone know if all HDMI inputs are HDCP compliant? Some DVI inputs are compliant and some are not. But I have never read any HDMI inputs stating anything.

BOSS10L

05-15-06, 09:50 PM

Does anyone know if all HDMI inputs are HDCP compliant? Some DVI inputs are compliant and some are not. But I have never read any HDMI inputs stating anything.

Yes they are.

cpcat

05-16-06, 08:08 AM

Does anyone know if all HDMI inputs are HDCP compliant? Some DVI inputs are compliant and some are not. But I have never read any HDMI inputs stating anything.

I've not heard of any HDMI inputs state it either. I've always assumed it was sort of defacto for the HDMI interface.

Audiguy3

05-16-06, 10:18 AM

Okay...those that have taken the plunge and purchased Toshiba's HD-DVD players....What do you think? Worth it? T
Thanks in advance...

You might check out my review of Blue Ray and the subsequent postings here:

http://forums.audiworld.com/htelect/msgs/6920.phtml

Highlights :
90% of the software will be on Blue Ray
Data xfer rates much better with BR
only 1080i now with HDDVD
Better sound capability with BR

Reggie

BOSS10L

05-16-06, 10:24 AM

I've not heard of any HDMI inputs state it either. I've always assumed it was sort of defacto for the HDMI interface.

Same here. That's why I said what I did, as I assumed that the reason the HDMI connection was created was to automatically imbue the HDCP within the equation.

Of course, you know what they say about assuming, and as my dad used to say "You ain't makin' an ass outta me!" :D

BOSS10L

05-16-06, 10:51 AM

You might check out my review of Blue Ray and the subsequent postings here:

http://forums.audiworld.com/htelect/msgs/6920.phtml

Highlights :
90% of the software will be on Blue Ray
Data xfer rates much better with BR
only 1080i now with HDDVD
Better sound capability with BR

Reggie

Reggie -

Thanks for the link. While I did go ahead and purchased an HD-A1 this morning, I've never doubted the technical prowess of BD. I've pretty much said all along that assuming that the PS3's DB drive has comparable image/sound quality to the standalone players, I will be picking up the $600 version (as long as I can get it at MSRP, I'm not going to overpay one of those Ebay vultures who will no doubt hoard them and sell at 2x-3x the price).

I belive in supporting both formats, although I'm not a fan of Sony's tactics and will be doing so for 3 reasons:

1 - I'm a technophile and usually unabashed early adopter. I can't help it.
2 - BD seems to be the superior technology, but HD-DVD is no slouch either.
3 - I'm a hardcore gamer. I gotta have a PS3. The fact that it has a built-in BD drive is just gravy.

I'm not taking anything away from you Reggie, but seeing as the link came from an Audi forums site, it's obvious that you're well-heeled. Alas, I am not, and more than anything else, it comes down to cost. Sure, I'd love nothing more to be shredding up the apexes in a finely tuned super-car, but my budget says no. :D

I think that might be Sony's Achilles heel. Us early adopters will carry the formats on to the next iterations, but the Joe Sixpacks, the ones who will decide if both/either/neither formats will win or even survive, will base their decision mostly based on price. I know historically speaking, $1000 is okay according to what people paid for the first DVD players, but the world has changed much since then. We're used to being able to pay $150 for a DVD player and just can it and replace it when it dies or becomes obsolete. I paid $150 this past weekend for an upconverting 5-disc DVD changer at BB this past weekend. I remember paying 3 times that for my first single disc DVD player (which I still have but doesn't work anymore :()

To each their own though.

Audiguy3

05-16-06, 11:12 AM

snowtrooper1966

05-16-06, 12:06 PM

Greetings!
Sorry, I realize this is a new thread for the NEW NEC's, but I am trying to get some help with last year's model....
I own a PX 50XM4. I am looking for a link to any owner's thread on those TV's. When I first got this TV, I attempted to use DVE to tune it up, but was afraid of IR and Burn In. I have had the TV for about a year, and am pretty happy with it. I still have not tuned it up with DVE, but is about time.
I seem to get a lot of artifacts with SD. I have a dish 811, with some HD feed. The HD looks amazing, but everything else is so so. I watch the HD through my dish 811's DVI output.
I have a Sony HX DVR/DVD player. I selected this model as it had the best DA converter I could afford that also had a DVR.
Most of the viewing is through this Sony. It is hooked up from the Dish 811 (sadly) through S Video. The Dish 811 has component out, but will not let me use the component AND the DVI out, so I selected the DVI for the best HD programming to the TV, and the S Vid to the Sony for everything else.
I originally had the 811 set to output @ 1080 (thinking that was native res for the NEC) but doing research for HD DVD, realized the NEC's native was 720(768). I have since scaled the output from the 811 to 720, thinking it would be best to let the TV do as little processing as possible.
I did come to the realization today that perhaps to tune the TV with the best signal, I should use DVE in a DVD player that has DVI out.
I do use the component out on the Sony to the NEC for DVD viewing, but still seem to see a bothersome amount of "noise" or digital "artifacts". I was watching New World on DVD the other day, and since I have spent so much time lately on PQ, really seemed to notice the picture was not as clear as I would think it should be.
About all I did when I started to tune up the TV was reduce the brightness and contrast. The PLE settings are auto for the DVI input, and 2 (auto for DVD) for the standard feed, since so much viewing includes station logos banners and the like (still afraid of IR and burn in).
Is there anything you might suggest to improve my SD picture quality? I would love to get the NEC calibrated, but live in a remote area (Mammoth Lakes, CA).
I know that using S Vid is not advisable, but I use the DVR a lot. Perhaps just using the DVR for recorded-off-the-air stuff, and consider a HD DVD player. I know I would have to get a DVI switching box so I could feed and all digital signal to the NEC from the Dish 811 AND the HD DVD player (and get an HDMI-DVI cable for the HD DVD player).
I am also kicking around the idea of getting the new Samsung DLP HLS6187. I had a second gen Sammy DLP, and I really seemed to get the POP of a high def image from that TV more than I am from the NEC. Granted, that was my first HDTV, and I did not like the rainbow effect, but understand the faster color wheel has alleviated that concern a bit (and a bigger screen would not be bad...) I am thinking that the native res of the Samsung (1080) would work really well with a new HD DVD player. I am a fan of as little conversion as possible.
Sorry for the length of this post, but thought I needed to let you all know exactly what I am dealing with to get some good info. I am hoping you might be able to help me really enjoy the NEC, or inform me that the Sammy may be better for me (donning flame proof suit;)).
I do not watch sports, but do watch a lot of DVD's, mostly in a dark environment @ about 9 feet away from set.
I sincerely appreciate and thank you in advance for any and all consideration and help!
Best,
James W Barron
snowtrooper1966@hotmail.com

BOSS10L

05-16-06, 12:42 PM

Boss,

I have to say if I was working I would have a HD-DVD now myself too. I am a early adopter - I still have my working Beta-HiFi - though it does not see much use anymore thanks to TiVo.

Don't blame Sony so much for the lack of a standard. I think the other guys were just playing hardball - and the superior capability of BR was not one thing that Sony was willing to give up (hurray for them as the data xfer rate is extremely important)

The Sony guys pointed out that only Universal had not committed to putting titles out in BR so that represented 10% of the market only.

And thanks for the kind words too.

I think the PS3 will be a bargain player. I was planning to hold out for a Universal player - I know LG delayed their BR entry to bring out a Universal player but based on the inputs from the Sony guys I don't think it will be worth it just to get the remaining 10% of the content market.

Take care.

Reggie

I remember the Betamax, my aunt had one, but I was "but a wee lad" and don't actually recall seeing any media on it. :D

I too really wanted to hold out for a universal player, moreso from a financial standpoint than anything else, but having this shiny new plasma and very little HD new content to watch (I've seen the same episodes of American Chopper/Monster Garage/Rides so many times I could scream) that I had to pop for the HD-DVD player. Besides, my wife supports it. I am a stubborn man and pretty much get my way 99% of the time, but when she gives me the green light, I'm not about to tempt fate and wait for her to change her mind. ;)

I just hope the BD drive in the PS3 isn't a badly paired-down one. I'm not expecting it to be reference quality mind you, but I hope it can do the BD technology justice. I have an Xbox 360 that was mainly bought for gaming, but I had plans to purchase the HD-DVD add on that M$ announced. Well, that was before they shortsightedly decided NOT to include the HDMI connection on it. I can see it now, what happens when the studios actually start enforcing those ICT flags....Mr. Gates, this is a gaffe of epic proportions. Almost akin to that waste of silicon space, Windows ME (which I was dumb enough to buy on release day :eek:).

Anyway, regardless what happens with the formats, it's all about the experience. Viva la HD!

agogley

05-16-06, 01:53 PM

At E3, Xbox had it's HD-DVD drive on display. I'm going to hold out on either technology.

techjunky2

05-16-06, 02:09 PM

BOSS10L

05-16-06, 03:11 PM

I'm sorry guys and gals, but I am not even remotely considering buying an HD DVD player anytime in the near future. Yes I love HD and am more than happy with HD programming via satellite, but to buy a DVD player that has only a couple of titles available to view seems a little foolish. For one, this HD DVD player is overpriced. Two, so are the discs. Three, what are you going to do with your HD DVD player if Blue Ray comes out and blows HD DVD right out of the water? I to am an early adopter, but by buying an HD DVD player at this time seems to me like (pardon me) peeing in the wind. Are you going to buy every title that comes out on HD DVD just because of it's resolution? The titles that have been released so far I wouldn't even watch twice let alone multiple times. Sorry to rant about it, but I hope all of you that have ran out to buy one of these overpriced gadgets don't start crying in your posts later this year when HD DVD might already be obsolete. Then again, maybe HD DVD will win the battle. Who knows? :rolleyes:

I have wrestled with that since the HD-A1 was released. I admit that I thought it was quite shortsighted that there weren't a whole lot of movies released for the HD-DVD platform at launch. And I do admit that of the current HD-DVD movies that are out, I would probably only purchase half of them.

But then I sit down and think about it. Sure, it is akin to pissing in the wind, and I sure do hope that the HD-DVD format doesn't become obsolete. But you know what? I believe in supporting what we want. As a onetime hardcore muscle-car guy I know that early adopters and pioneers are what helps shape and push the industry as a whole to new heights, and ultimately, will benefit the end-user, whether it is a new exhaust for that sweet Mustang, or a dual-formatted HD-DVD that has the HD and SD versions of the film on the same disk or in the same package.

I mean, if you really want to get down to brass tacks, we're all kinda pissin' in the wind, aren't we? I know people who are completely content watching local SD OTA TV on a 19" CRT that they've had for nearly a decade. They tell me I'm crazy for having 4 TVs in the house, 2 of them being HD and over 30". We post that some of us have purchased a Harmony 880 and get "cool remote" responses. What is so screwed up about the world today that we get chastised for purchasing a $500 HD-DVD player but commended for plunking down over $200 for a remote (I didn't pay that much, but you get the idea)...

Could the money be spent on more "worthwhile" pursuits? Oh, most certainly. But one thing I've learned (which has really been hammered home as of late) recently is that life is short. I'm not going to my demise without trying to live it to the fullest. I'd rather have regret knowing I tried something and found out it was wrong or that I failed than to sit there and wonder "what if". I've done enough of that in my almost 35 years. It's counterproductive, and will eat you up inside.

BOSS10L

05-16-06, 03:12 PM

At E3, Xbox had it's HD-DVD drive on display. I'm going to hold out on either technology.

No HDMI connection though. Fine if you don't mind 480p when the studios start enforcing HDCP.

cpcat

05-16-06, 03:41 PM

Highlights :
90% of the software will be on Blue Ray
Data xfer rates much better with BR
only 1080i now with HDDVD
Better sound capability with BR

Reggie

I plan to probably get a BR player. I already have the A1. I don't want to turn this into a BR/HDDVD fight, but I could argue every one of those statements as wrong (or immaterial). Let's just leave it at that. Suffice it to say that if there were a "clear winning format" then there would be no controversy.

techjunky2

05-16-06, 04:18 PM

I have wrestled with that since the HD-A1 was released. I admit that I thought it was quite shortsighted that there weren't a whole lot of movies released for the HD-DVD platform at launch. And I do admit that of the current HD-DVD movies that are out, I would probably only purchase half of them.

But then I sit down and think about it. Sure, it is akin to pissing in the wind, and I sure do hope that the HD-DVD format doesn't become obsolete. But you know what? I believe in supporting what we want. As a onetime hardcore muscle-car guy I know that early adopters and pioneers are what helps shape and push the industry as a whole to new heights, and ultimately, will benefit the end-user, whether it is a new exhaust for that sweet Mustang, or a dual-formatted HD-DVD that has the HD and SD versions of the film on the same disk or in the same package.

I mean, if you really want to get down to brass tacks, we're all kinda pissin' in the wind, aren't we? I know people who are completely content watching local SD OTA TV on a 19" CRT that they've had for nearly a decade. They tell me I'm crazy for having 4 TVs in the house, 2 of them being HD and over 30". We post that some of us have purchased a Harmony 880 and get "cool remote" responses. What is so screwed up about the world today that we get chastised for purchasing a $500 HD-DVD player but commended for plunking down over $200 for a remote (I didn't pay that much, but you get the idea)...

Could the money be spent on more "worthwhile" pursuits? Oh, most certainly. But one thing I've learned (which has really been hammered home as of late) recently is that life is short. I'm not going to my demise without trying to live it to the fullest. I'd rather have regret knowing I tried something and found out it was wrong or that I failed than to sit there and wonder "what if". I've done enough of that in my almost 35 years. It's counterproductive, and will eat you up inside.
HEY Boss, I don't mean to offend you or start arguments, but my own personal opinion on either HD DVD format is that to purchase it right now would leave you with far less money to pursue technology that is tried and true. For instance you mentioned your speakers were a lower end Polk speaker. Why not save the money you just spent on the (may become mainstream technology and might not) HD DVD player, and upgrade your speakers? I am not trying to condem you for your purchase, it's a free world, but do you really want to be stuck with a DVD player that might go the way of the laser disc? I have at least $10k probably closer to $15k invested in home electronics and all of my TV's are HD. So, I am in no place to condem you for spending money on cutting edge electronics, I just try and make sure the technology will be around for a few years before buying it. I am sure the picture quality is great with the HD DVD player, but I can't see myself waiting week after week for a new HD DVD title to be released only to to find out that it's a title I don't care to own. Anyway, good luck with your HD DVD player, and I hope for your sake that it is a worthwhile investment. Take care :)

BOSS10L

05-16-06, 04:31 PM

plazman

05-16-06, 04:44 PM

HEY Boss, I don't mean to offend you or start arguments, but my own personal opinion on either HD DVD format is that to purchase it right now would leave you with far less money to pursue technology that is tried and true. For instance you mentioned your speakers were a lower end Polk speaker. Why not save the money you just spent on the (may become mainstream technology and might not) HD DVD player, and upgrade your speakers? I am not trying to condem you for your purchase, it's a free world, but do you really want to be stuck with a DVD player that might go the way of the laser disc? I have at least $10k probably closer to $15k invested in home electronics and all of my TV's are HD. So, I am in no place to condem you for spending money on cutting edge electronics, I just try and make sure the technology will be around for a few years before buying it. I am sure the picture quality is great with the HD DVD player, but I can't see myself waiting week after week for a new HD DVD title to be released only to to find out that it's a title I don't care to own. Anyway, good luck with your HD DVD player, and I hope for your sake that it is a worthwhile investment. Take care :)

tech,

I see your point of view. But based on my personal experience with the XA-1 I have to disagree with some of what you say. I used to own both an Oppo and a Denon DVD player. The Denon cost me a little less than my XA-1 and the A-1 would probably cost about the same.

IMHO the XA-1 is a better upconverting DVD player for SD DVD than either the Oppo or the Denon. Even my wife who is not an audio or videophile has no difficulty in seeing the improvements. As good as the video is, the XA-1 audio is by far better than the Oppo and Denon. So even as a stand alone DVD player I feel fully justified in my investment in the XA-1.

As far as HD DVD - you have got to see it on a 50 inch screen with the lights turned low and the speakers turned up to know what you have been missing ;)

I don't have the greatest audio system (Bose Lifestyle 48), but the audio is rich, full and awesome!!!

Certainly, if I had got a buggy player I would have taken it back immediately. But this product has exceeded my expectations. Well, BD could well be the dominant platform in a years time, and either one can end up as an upconverting DVD player. $500 for a top end upconverting DVD player is a lot more justifiable than a $1000 one!

People talk about the studio support behind BD - but in the next year, the number of titles are about the same for both, and quality wise , I wouldn't say BD is puttng out killer content (JMHO).

I'm not bashing either formats, but I am glad I put my money on an HD DVD player instead of a SD DVD player.....

techjunky2

05-16-06, 04:46 PM

No offense taken at all my friend. Just a spirited debate. :)

Long story short, my ears are not yet attuned enough to know the difference between my $500 Polk speaker setup and a $2500 Klipsch setup. I'm only going to buy those movies which I will actually watch, but I want to see them in as good a quality as I can get them. Another thing to keep in mind is that I don't already have a Denon or even an Oppo upconverting player, so it isn't like I spent $200 or more on one of those and just now am adding an HD-A1.

Me too, or my wife will let me hear it. I'll just have to remind her that she was in favor of it too. :D
Gotcha :) I to have my wife looking over my shoulder at my purchases. Fortunately, like you, my wife was bitten by the HD bug and she has no problems with my passionate interest in cutting edge technology. Look at it from her perspective, I could be out with my friends sitting in a club, drinking our money away, but no, I am furnishing our home with electronics that bring immense enjoyment to us all. I also take great pride in dropping our friends jaws when they experience my Home Theater. Enjoy life my friend, because it is indeed to short. ;)

dfdtruckie

05-17-06, 07:59 PM

I am still in the 100 hr break-in period, so I am not risking any black bar effect for potential image retention reasons (not that I'm overly concerned about this. So far any retention I've noticed has disappeared by just watching different shows or movies, etc). So I think I have used the 2.35:1 setting, and if that doesn't remove them completely, I use the ZOOM setting to make the bars disappear.

So are you watching all of your programs in the "zoom"mode during the first 100hrs? Would watching a dvd in the native disc mode cause image retention? :)

cpcat

05-17-06, 08:03 PM

So are you watching all of your programs in the "zoom"mode during the first 100hrs? Would watching a dvd in the native disc mode cause image retention? :)

Yes. For about 10 minutes. No kidding. It just lasts about that long. I think it's something separate from true image retention but that's just a theory of mine. It still happens for me at 800 hours. Goes away every time though.

I'd probably limit black bars as much as possible during the first 100 hours then after that just be sure to vary the programming.

wbe

05-17-06, 09:40 PM

So are you watching all of your programs in the "zoom"mode during the first 100hrs?

I use my ZOOM mode as my last resort. I haven't made the jump to HD yet, so when I watch my Dish SD programming, the STADIUM mode or ANAMORPHIC mode usually shows no bars, so I don't need to use ZOOM. If I'm watching a channel with a ticker scrolling below, I'll zoom in far enough so that the ticker doesn't appear, even though the PQ worsens when I do that. Just being overly cautious for now.
Would watching a dvd in the native disc mode cause image retention? :)
Sorry, but being somewhat new to this stuff, I'm probably missing your point. I have an older Toshiba DVD player(SD-4109X), and as far as I can tell, all I see it feeding the plasma is 480i (if I understand what I'm looking at. And yes, I'm looking into upgrading). I don't know how to or even if I can change that. If the format the DVD is feeding the panel causes black bars, I make sure I get rid of them. Most of the time I can do this with ANAMORPHIC mode or 2.35:1. If not, I use ZOOM. Hope that answers some of your question. :o

agogley

05-17-06, 10:12 PM

I just placed an order for my NEC 61" consumer model plasma. I eventually went with TV Authority as they pricematched some of the other competitors and gave me the 5 star service program. I'll advise when I get it up and running.

BOSS10L

05-17-06, 10:16 PM

Congrats and welcome! Looking forward to seeing some pics and hearing your thoughts!

netarc

05-17-06, 11:54 PM

Wondering if anyone is using a Denon 3910 DVD player to feed their NEC 50"/61" display?

Any thoughts on this combo?

netarc

05-18-06, 03:37 AM

Just received my 50XR5 this past weekend and got it mounted and running. Gotta say, the picture out of the box left a *lot* to be desired (had tested it with "Finding Nemo," and was pretty bummed at what I saw).

After some tweaking, though - originally based upon cpcat's numerous settings, but then altered by my own prefs and the THX optimizer (haven't found my VE/Avia DVDs yet to run thru these) - I found the picture much/much improved.

It's *still* not as fantastical as I had hoped it would be (particularly given the rampantly happy feedback on this thread ;)), but I attribute that to two things: 1) haven't fully configured the set via AVIA/VE, and 2) I'm feeding it output from the Sony 875P 300disc changer, which is far from a "performance" machine. I'm considering purchasing a single-disc universal DVD player (hence my query re: the 3910, above), though ... but will probably wait until for another week or so, until the panel's racked up some time (running thru the break-in DVD now, a really sweet util!)

One other comment - I am very surprised by how prone to IR the panel is ... e.g., I'll be watching HDTV (OTA via LG 4200 tuner) in anamorphic mode when some commercials will come on - typically these are a mix of 4:3 and letterbox content - by the end of the 2-3mins of commercials the area where the black bars had been displayed are _visibly_ darker than the central portion of the screen! This clears up pretty quickly, though ... but still, it's very surprising! Hoping that this will be much less an issue after a few hundred hours.

dfdtruckie

05-18-06, 07:30 AM

BuckaTune

05-18-06, 10:33 AM

Wondering if anyone is using a Denon 3910 DVD player to feed their NEC 50"/61" display?

Any thoughts on this combo?

Net,

I just recently purchased a 50XR5 (41 hrs on the panel as of today) and I also have a Denon 3910 Universal player. Not to hijack this thread, but I really love my DVD player, the DVD-A/SACD playback is phenomenal, and I have it connected to a Denon receiver thru Denon-Link, which works flawlessly.

But to get back to the topic, I am feeding the panel both through Component cables and HDMI. I have to say I do prefer the HDMI input over the Component as I am scaling with the DVD player's internal scaler to 1080i and inputting it to the panel. I had the same initial reaction as yourself, I had put in "The Incredibles" as my first initial movie and I was less than impressed.

I unfortunately am not sitting in front of my panel right now, but I do remember just a couple of settings after running through the new Digital Video Essentials disc.

Contrast - 37
Brightness - 4

After running the DVE, I have to say I am just blown away by the picture quality of this panel now, and I am more than satisfied with the PQ. I will post my settings when I get in front of my TV again tonight. :)

The 3910 also has the ability to adjust color controls and store them in nine user defined settings, and I have not gone through the adjustments on the player yet, and they are set to default for now. I am looking to get the set (and player) ISF calibrated after I break in the panel for a couple of hundred hours.

As far as IR goes, I have noticed the same thing on my panel as you had mentioned playing 2.35:1 movies in Anamorphic mode, and switching to the respective 2.35 mode on the panel that fills the entire screen, I seen the same black bars that faded away quickly. From what I read on this thread and forum, this issue will dimenish quickly over time as the panel gets broken in properly.

In short, the panel/picture is awesome IMO, and I think you are going to be very satisfied with your purchase decision as you calibrate the TV, and break it in properly.

I apologize if I did not answer your question in more detail, but I will be happy to answer any specific questions you may have about the panel/player combo. I am in the process of trying to get some pictures of my panel/setup with images on it to help others who may be considering this panel.

netarc

05-18-06, 01:11 PM

No need to apologize, thanks for the great info! I may well jump on the 3910 after all...

netarc

05-18-06, 01:12 PM

re: the breakin DVD - it's a tool developed by one of the helpful folks on this forum - it's a sticky in the plasma forum, look for "break-in"

netarc

05-18-06, 01:39 PM

jvincent

05-18-06, 01:59 PM

BTW, can someone confirm the "bit processing" for this panel? I understand many PDPs, up until recently, were still using 8bit processing, which contributed to the banding/posterization issues. Can't find the specs on NEC's site, but I'm assuming it's using at least 10-bit?

And what, exactly, does this "bit processing" spec refer to? Is this the D/A convertor?

The NECs are 12 bit processing. You get this from the "4096 levels" in the feature sheet. While we're at it 68.7 billion colours comes from 4096R x 4096G x 4096B.

The bit processing refers to the width/precision of the internal video processing. Since most digital input is 24bit RGB (8R, 8G, 8B) you would get rounding errors, causing contouring, if you did the signal processing with only 8 bits of precision. 10 bits is better, 12 is better still.

netarc

05-18-06, 02:30 PM

Gotcha, thanks for the info.

Follow-up question re: the ZOOM mode - is the zoom +/- functionality supposed to be disabled when stretching a program in STADIUM mode?

I find that some of the 4:3 SD channels off my LG 4200 OTA/STB continue to display skinny black bars in "stadium" mode (broadcast source issue, I suspect) - I had tried to zoom in to remove these, but the zoom function doesn't work ... switching back to "anamorphic," though, allows zoom to work.

Come to think of it .... when I had used "JUST" (Sony's equivalent to NEC's "stadium") to progressivly stretch this same 4:3 SD content with my previous set (same OTA tuner, into a Sony 34XBR800 16:9 crt), there were no little black bars! So perhaps it's not a source issue after all.

What say ... has anyone else noticed thinner black bars when displaying 4:3 content (SD source from an HD stb) on the NEC in "stadium" mode?

tony17

05-18-06, 02:48 PM

What say ... has anyone else noticed thinner black bars when displaying 4:3 content (SD source from an HD stb) on the NEC in "stadium" mode?

Nope, both my DirecTV and Comcast boxes stretch the 4:3 material in stadium mode without any bars. Is there an overscan adjustment on your stb?

haveoneolboy

05-18-06, 02:55 PM

Net,

I unfortunately am not sitting in front of my panel right now, but I do remember just a couple of settings after running through the new Digital Video Essentials disc.

Contrast - 37
Brightness - 4

Wow, those settings seem low. I have the XM5A and I am running

Contrast 48
Brightness 28
Sharpness 20
Color 30
Color Temp. MID
Gamma 1
Black Level = High (makes it the darkest)
PLE-Auto
NR - 1

This is the compromised settings I have compiled after using THX Optimizer, AVIA, and DVE.

Auroraboy

05-19-06, 07:57 AM

I am awaiting delivery of a NEC 50XR5. Purchased a Peerless 660 wall mount. Also decided to ditch my 5.1 setup due to limited space and layout, as we are moving our TV viewing to another room. Bought the Yamaha YSP800 all in one speaker, so we will see how that works out for TV and movie viewing. Will be getting HD TV via cable and a Motorola 6200 box.

I have an older Sony S530D DVD player that I was going to move over for now, except it is one of those orginal "big" players. Built like a tank. The new ones are much thinner and smaller, and will fit better. It seems that you can pick up a decent player for $150 - $250 these days.

What should I be looking at for playing "regular" DVD's on the XR5? Not interested into jumping into a true HD players until things settle out. Should I be looking at a Progressive scan player, or will an "upconverting" player deliver a better picture than Progressive scan on an XR5? Any brand recommendations?

I did do some seaching on this forum as well as the DVD forum but could not come to any conclusions. Quite frankly, I have spent most of my energy and research over the last several months trying to decide on what type of TV to buy. A new DVD player was not even in my thought process until now. Thought I would ask this question in the NEC thread to get the best recommendation from NEC owners.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.