I want to desperately take the plunge and buy the 42RX4 but, like hifisponge above, I'm concerned about these reports of excessive grain. C'mon all you 42rx4 owners, tell me the truth, is grain noticeable and distracting from 7,8 ft away, which is my seating distance?

I want to desperately take the plunge and buy the 42RX4 but, like hifisponge above, I'm concerned about these reports of excessive grain. C'mon all you 42rx4 owners, tell me the truth, is grain noticeable and distracting from 7,8 ft away, which is my seating distance?
Hmmm... I am an 50XR5 owner... so you can disregard the rest ;)...I don't have a grain issue at all @10ft, I believe that the NECs are extremely customizable/configurable... the combination of the sharpness controls and NR reduction let me setthe sharpness/filmness for any source...also most of of have noticed that the NEC excels when provided a good source... Plus the way way people nit pick on these forums...I think if the grain was an issue, this thread would be covered with it... but as far I can tell there are very few mentions of grain and almost all of them are centered around the secrets review... and as far as I read the only complaints are up close . "In terms of picture quality, except for the grain one gets up-close," ..7-8' for a 42" is not up close... although that where the secrets guys say it starts to disappear...

did you read the PCMAG review ....
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1941251,00.asp

Here is thier quote
"The NEC 42XR4 ($3,995 list) is the most impressive 42-inch plasma display panel that PC Magazine has tested to date."... just for a different view

Plus you could just buy from one of the forum sponsors that has a no muss no fuss return policy and check it out for yourself...

Hello all -

I'm in the market for a new TV and I stummbled across this thread in my search for candidates. It seems like everyone here is very pleased with their purchase which is always promising, but I'm concerned by a review I read of the 42RX4 in Secrets of Home Theater. The reveiwer states that the set adds a considerable amount of grain to the picture.

http://www.ecoustics.com/secrets/volume_13_2/nec-42xr4-plasma-tv-4-2006-part-1.html

Anyone have any thoughts or comments on this?

I'd say if anything it's not adding grain but simply showing it.

The NEC's give you all the resolution the panel can provide. If you turn noise reduction completely off which is possible through the user menu you will see the result of whatever the source is giving you. This can be bad in the case of D* or very good in the case of HD DVD.

The advent of HD DVD has provided a true HD source with which to measure signal quality. Having this yardstick has opened my eyes. Believe me, it varies widely and is often bad.

On the other hand, the NEC also provides high quality noise reduction algorithms which tame the noise. You have to turn it on though.

bvader, cpcat -

Thanks guys. That PC Mag review was just what I wanted to here. I think this comment from their reviews pretty much says it all.

" . . . Yes, the 42XR4 costs more than most other 42-inch plasma displays, but I have yet to see a 42-inch TV come this close to image perfection . . ."

I was also pleasantly surprised to read, "Compared with the Panasonic TH-42PX50U, a more affordable 42-inch plasma TV, the 42XR4's black levels were almost three times as dark, improving the perception of contrast in the picture, particularly in dimly lit viewing environments." Since the Panny is supposed to be the reigning king of CR. I guess real world testing shows otherwise.

It almost seems like the Secrets to Home Theater reviewer had a bad sample, as he seems competent enough to know to turn on the noise reduction filter.

Cheers,

- Tim

PS: For what it worth, I looked at a 61" Pioneer Elite earlier today and saw no issues with picture noise. Since Pioneer and NEC use the same panels, it would seem that the NEC would have comparable performance.

It almost seems like the Secrets to Home Theater reviewer had a bad sample, as he seems competent enough to know to turn on the noise reduction filter.

.

He is extremely competent, but he also loves to use external scalers feeding native rate to the display. The problem being this also disables the noise reduction in the NEC whereas other displays may have NR "always on" and not defeatable. If your external VP doesn't have high quality noise reduction which most don't, this may result in a grainy image at least on the NEC. The solution is something like the Algolith Mosquito but why pay the price of the Mosquito plus that of an external scaler just to get what's already in the display?

I'd say if anything it's not adding grain but simply showing it.

The NEC's give you all the resolution the panel can provide. If you turn noise reduction completely off which is possible through the user menu you will see the result of whatever the source is giving you. This can be bad in the case of D* or very good in the case of HD DVD.

The advent of HD DVD has provided a true HD source with which to measure signal quality. Having this yardstick has opened my eyes. Believe me, it varies widely and is often bad.

On the other hand, the NEC also provides high quality noise reduction algorithms which tame the noise. You have to turn it on though.

cpcat - is this noise reduction something easily accessible in the menu? HD DVD has looked stunning so far, but if there is a way to make it look even better with the equipment I already have....wooo boy! :D

As an aside, I watched Sin City on the A1 last night. It was simply amazing. Call it blasphemous if you wish, but I cannot wait for Hollywood to ditch film and go to an all digital production cycle from filming to final DVD. :cool:

bvader, cpcat -
...

I was also pleasantly surprised to read, "Compared with the Panasonic TH-42PX50U, a more affordable 42-inch plasma TV, the 42XR4's black levels were almost three times as dark, improving the perception of contrast in the picture, particularly in dimly lit viewing environments."

Carefull on that quote, we NEC folks mostly agree the blacks are pretty darn good, but the 3 times statement has been pretty much picked apart...

and as usual cpcat put is very well..."I'd say if anything it's not adding grain but simply showing it."

The kinda bad/unexpected and of course great thing is when you get a high quality display it will show the weakness and/or strengths of the source fed to it... i.e. You get out what you put in, then with all the controls you can adjust the PQ to taste. I have played with the 60U consumer panny... great PQ, no where near as adjustable.

Yes, thanks bvader and cpcat. That's just the push I needed, too. Welcome to my family room,
Mr. NEC 42XR4!

cpcat - is this noise reduction something easily accessible in the menu? HD DVD has looked stunning so far, but if there is a way to make it look even better with the equipment I already have....wooo boy! :D

As an aside, I watched Sin City on the A1 last night. It was simply amazing. Call it blasphemous if you wish, but I cannot wait for Hollywood to ditch film and go to an all digital production cycle from filming to final DVD. :cool:

Sin City is some flick. I liked it. My wife was appalled by the violence. The violence was cartoonish to me though and I really took to the scarface character.

The NR options are NR off,1,2,3 as I'm sure you know. For HD DVD , off is fine as there really isn't any noise to speak of. I use NR2 for OTA , D* and regular DVD..

Low tone is an adjustment for low level dithering AFAIK. I think 3 is the best but "auto" seems to be basicallly equivalent. 3 uses "error diffusion" which is best for video. I think "auto" simply defaults to error diffusion with TV viewing and that's why you can't tell a difference.

Sin City is some flick. I liked it. My wife was appalled by the violence. The violence was cartoonish to me though and I really took to the scarface character.

The NR options are NR off,1,2,3 as I'm sure you know. For HD DVD , off is fine as there really isn't any noise to speak of. I use NR2 for OTA , D* and regular DVD..

Low tone is an adjustment for low level dithering AFAIK. I think 3 is the best but "auto" seems to be basicallly equivalent. 3 uses "error diffusion" which is best for video. I think "auto" simply defaults to error diffusion with TV viewing and that's why you can't tell a difference.

That scarface character was Marv... he's my favorite....

I would also add in Sharpness, where is not the same as noise reduction the sharpness adjustment can have a significant effect on the "Filmlike Quality/Smoothness" I sometimes adjust it a tick or to depending on the source and my taste.

awwwww,.c'mon(!)Some of these questions remind me of the guy who makes it to the gates of heaven and complains about a light bulb flickering in the far left corner.

This is a great plasma. So good that it reveals all of the short-comings of the sources. Yes, having watched ESPN HD sports, the average FOX broadcast really sucks. It is the NEC that reveals the bad , ugly...and the good.

Are not all of the 109 pages of satisfied customers something with meaning?

Sin City is some flick. I liked it. My wife was appalled by the violence. The violence was cartoonish to me though and I really took to the scarface character.

I liked the movie in spite of myself. Overall the storyline was a bit weak, but I'm a writer by education/passion, so I tend to nitpick more than I should. The visuals were unbelievable though. So many damn possibilities, but Hollywood still likes to use film...

The NR options are NR off,1,2,3 as I'm sure you know. For HD DVD , off is fine as there really isn't any noise to speak of. I use NR2 for OTA , D* and regular DVD..

Actually, I didn't, that's why I asked. ;) :D Thanks for the info though.

Low tone is an adjustment for low level dithering AFAIK. I think 3 is the best but "auto" seems to be basicallly equivalent. 3 uses "error diffusion" which is best for video. I think "auto" simply defaults to error diffusion with TV viewing and that's why you can't tell a difference.

Everything looks great as is so far, and the only settings I changed were using a few of your initial settings when I did the break-in period. I haven't touched it yet with the exception of going into the service menu to see how many hours have accrued.

I liked the movie in spite of myself. Overall the storyline was a bit weak, but I'm a writer by education/passion, so I tend to nitpick more than I should.
Wow....Nitpickin' Frank Miller...or maybe just the adaptation.;)

I had the boys over last weekend to watch the Directors Cut...It was heartily enjoyed by all...

And I definitely could sense a little... ok alot...of panel envy going on...heheh

Well, when there is a NEC on the wall...that happens!

Wow....Nitpickin' Frank Miller...or maybe just the adaptation.;)

I had the boys over last weekend to watch the Directors Cut...It was heartily enjoyed by all...

And I definitely could sense a little... ok alot...of panel envy going on...heheh

It's just that, and this might seem a bit trite, but even though I did enjoy it, I really had a feeling of "been there, done that". I guess in one sense I did hold the movie to a higher standard because it in essence, showed me a glimpse of what is possible. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of technology telling the story (Star Wars Ep. I-III vs the original trilogy), but writers and directors should keep this in mind and use it to their advantage.

have you guys seen the new Pio 6070? I was looking for thoughts about the current NEC 61" model compared to the new Pio (although that may not be fair).

I have a tech Q?. My NEC xr5 Plasma supports 1080i > my Oppo 970HD supports 1080i.
I have connected the DVD player with both HDMI and component. { also to see if i can see a difference in PQ.
When i click the HDMI buttom it displays 720P(64hz). How do i get 1080i??
{i am posting this in the NEC thread as well}

I have a tech Q?. My NEC xr5 Plasma supports 1080i > my Oppo 970HD supports 1080i.
I have connected the DVD player with both HDMI and component. { also to see if i can see a difference in PQ.
When i click the HDMI buttom it displays 720P(64hz). How do i get 1080i??
{i am posting this in the NEC thread as well}
DAB,
Saw your post in the 970 thread too. Now that you now how to set the output resolution make sure you try the 480i and 480p settings as well, I have the 971 and 480p is the best for me. If you still have letter box on some dvd's that is because they are greater than 1.85:1 (1.77:1 = 16x9 1:85 Enhanced for WideScreen ~= 16x9). You can use the 2:35:1 setting on the NEC or.... Or what I like...Use Anamorphic Setting and then Zoom +/- feature to zoom in a couple clicks... it works great!

The NEC has an amazing ZOOM feature... that goes for any one reading this... basically it kicks butt far outclasses the comp IMHO! over pretty much any other zoom I have seen, I have seen zooms on other panels and a number of DVD players, they never measure up... guess thats that awesome scalar doing its thing

BV- yes in last palyer the zoom worked great and i didn't notice a loss of material on the sides. I prefer full scene but not the loss of picture. Here i have been playing w/ the Oppo zoom and nec zoom but have gotten it down yet. I had a couple of hours today in between, some meeting wouldn't get back to it untill friday.. thanks, the movie sound track is very good... clear - sharp - detailed.on this 970.

First of all, I just want to say how pleased I am with this panel. I was all ready to do a big writeup once I fully calibrate this weekend (115 hours and counting, was waiting to get to 100 before moving away from the cpcat/Lisa settings).

I don't know that image retention has been reported in this thread on the 42" model, so let me share my experience.

My breakin period went more or less like this:

-Using cpcat's settings from the calibration thread.

-First 40-50 hours, almost all Discovery HD with occasional other HD channels like ESPN or YESHD (with aspect changed to remove permabars or anything of the sort).

-Next 60 hours, same but with half of it being the breakin DVD.

-At all times, more or less, I was running the screen wiper. Even during the breakin DVD.


Anyway, tonight I came home and had Baseball Tonight on ESPNHD. I didn't mind the bottom ticker because I figured (a) I'm past 100 hours, and (b) it left during the commercials (I checked).

Only one problem: while I was busy doing something else, I didn't notice that the ticker started staying during the commercials. Which leads to my retention.

I decided to put on the screen wiper while I watched ESPN just to be sure, and accidentally hit the inverse instead. Well, when I cycled through to turn it off, my heart jumped as it went to the "White" option. There, on the white screen, was a faint but clear red "ESPN" where it was on the ticker. I flipped around to see if it was noticeable on other channels, and it was (assuming I looked).

I ran the inverse on the ticker for a few minutes, but it's still there.

Now, about 5-7 minutes later, it's BARELY perceptible (but definitely there) on the white screen. It's certainly not noticeable on TV programs, but it's there.

Now, this raises two important issues for me:

1. Burn in. I do not believe this is burn in. Simply put, I've watched some ESPN with the ticker using the screen wiper, but almost all of it was after 100 hours and none for THAT long. Plus, as recently as last night I put on the white screen and didn't notice anything. In short, I'm not particularly worried.

But...

2. Retention. Still seeing a ghost on a white screen after, say, 10 minutes now, has me worried. I did NOT have this program on for that long. I don't mind the screen wiper, and I don't mind being patient, but the idea that I can't throw on ESPN for an hour or two -- or, heck, even a baseball game on YESHD (with a score bar and logo that leave during commercials) -- without experiencing serious image retention is very worrisome. IIRC, the IR issues are much more in the first several hundred hours.

So... Should I avoid watching these channels without changing the aspect to get rid of the bar, even with the screen wiper, and even if I'm not watching for like 5 hours?

Thanks for bearing with me through a long post. FYI, still observable at 20 minutes. (And just to be clear, the only way to tell is to use the white screen. I don't notice it on any channels.)


UPDATE: Still there over an hour later. Ugh.

DOUBLE UPDATE: I ran a little more inverse, which didn't seem to make a difference. I'm going to run the breakin dvd all night again. The shadow is pretty noticable on the first several grey screens, if you're looking in that area of course. Sigh.

TRIPLE UPDATE: Still there the next morning, faint but noticeable, after running the breaking all night. Could I have burned this set in from less than an hour at under stock brightness?

This may have been discussed before but does anyone know if and where in the OSD the 50xr5 has a built in timer that tells how many hours the panel has been used for?

Thanks

Mutt,

I have to say, either you have an extremely susceptible panel and it needs to be replaced....or it is all in your head and your are being over analytical (don't take that the wrong way.....not calling you crazy...but it seems odd) :)

I know that the 42XR4 is less prone to IR than the 50XR5 and I watch ESPN and full Yankees games on YESHD (4hours) and do not get what you are describing. Sure there is some IR if I change to other channels....but that is gone within minutes.

Another example: My wife put my daughters Baby Mozart DVD on for her before bed last night and then came up stairs and never shut it off. I came down to get a drink about 3 hours later and the menu screen had been on for those three hours. This menu has a huge white cow and other bright lettering. When I turned it to cable it was clearly visible. I put Discovery HD on and it was gone in 5 minutes.

I think your either being way to paranoid....or your panel is an exception that needs to be replaced.

Good luck and keep us updated.

This may have been discussed before but does anyone know if and where in the OSD the 50xr5 has a built in timer that tells how many hours the panel has been used for?

Thanks

Can't post the code to get in here (it is in Bruzzi's links) but that is in the service menu, not the OSD.

BV- yes in last palyer the zoom worked great and i didn't notice a loss of material on the sides. I prefer full scene but not the loss of picture. Here i have been playing w/ the Oppo zoom and nec zoom but have gotten it down yet. I had a couple of hours today in between, some meeting wouldn't get back to it untill friday.. thanks, the movie sound track is very good... clear - sharp - detailed.on this 970.
NEC zoom should be much...much ..better than the dvd player zoom.

First of all, I just want to say how pleased I am with this panel. I was all ready to do a big writeup once I fully calibrate this weekend (115 hours and counting, was waiting to get to 100 before moving away from the cpcat/Lisa settings).

I don't know that image retention has been reported in this thread on the 42" model, so let me share my experience.

My breakin period went more or less like this:

-Using cpcat's settings from the calibration thread.

-First 40-50 hours, almost all Discovery HD with occasional other HD channels like ESPN or YESHD (with aspect changed to remove permabars or anything of the sort).

-Next 60 hours, same but with half of it being the breakin DVD.

-At all times, more or less, I was running the screen wiper. Even during the breakin DVD.


Anyway, tonight I came home and had Baseball Tonight on ESPNHD. I didn't mind the bottom ticker because I figured (a) I'm past 100 hours, and (b) it left during the commercials (I checked).

Only one problem: while I was busy doing something else, I didn't notice that the ticker started staying during the commercials. Which leads to my retention.

I decided to put on the screen wiper while I watched ESPN just to be sure, and accidentally hit the inverse instead. Well, when I cycled through to turn it off, my heart jumped as it went to the "White" option. There, on the white screen, was a faint but clear red "ESPN" where it was on the ticker. I flipped around to see if it was noticeable on other channels, and it was (assuming I looked).

I ran the inverse on the ticker for a few minutes, but it's still there.

Now, about 5-7 minutes later, it's BARELY perceptible (but definitely there) on the white screen. It's certainly not noticeable on TV programs, but it's there.

Now, this raises two important issues for me:

1. Burn in. I do not believe this is burn in. Simply put, I've watched some ESPN with the ticker using the screen wiper, but almost all of it was after 100 hours and none for THAT long. Plus, as recently as last night I put on the white screen and didn't notice anything. In short, I'm not particularly worried.

But...

2. Retention. Still seeing a ghost on a white screen after, say, 10 minutes now, has me worried. I did NOT have this program on for that long. I don't mind the screen wiper, and I don't mind being patient, but the idea that I can't throw on ESPN for an hour or two -- or, heck, even a baseball game on YESHD (with a score bar and logo that leave during commercials) -- without experiencing serious image retention is very worrisome. IIRC, the IR issues are much more in the first several hundred hours.

So... Should I avoid watching these channels without changing the aspect to get rid of the bar, even with the screen wiper, and even if I'm not watching for like 5 hours?

Thanks for bearing with me through a long post. FYI, still observable at 20 minutes. (And just to be clear, the only way to tell is to use the white screen. I don't notice it on any channels.)


UPDATE: Still there over an hour later. Ugh.

DOUBLE UPDATE: I ran a little more inverse, which didn't seem to make a difference. I'm going to run the breakin dvd all night again. The shadow is pretty noticable on the first several grey screens, if you're looking in that area of course. Sigh.

TRIPLE UPDATE: Still there the next morning, faint but noticeable, after running the breaking all night. Could I have burned this set in from less than an hour at under stock brightness?
I really doubt that you have permanent burn in, but I share your concern. I originally decided against plasma with one of my first HD displays because of the burn-in issue. I bought a Sharp Aquos LCD and really like that display still, but it it was'nt large enough for home theater. I like not having to worry about burn in with LCD, but the PQ of the XR5 is simply top notch. I must admit that I didn't realize that I would have to "baby" a $4k plasma as if it was an infant child. I really hate the fact that I can't even let my wife or son use the display for fear that they might neglect to get rid of the "black bars on a DVD, or leave a constant image on the screen for to long. I never have these issues with my two LCD panels. I was really under the assumption that they had resolved the burn in issues with plasma displays which is obviously not 100% accurate. I can watch soccer on World Sport HD for half an hour and then turn to another channel and have the score board retained in the upper left hand corner for hours unless I go through the proper measures to get rid of it.(Screen wiper, Inverse white) As (Mutt) noted and rightly so, must we be cautious about what programming we watch on these plasma displays? Do we have a television that is actually dictating what we can and can't watch? I for one am a little irritated with my limitations as a result of the constant monitoring these plasma panels require. Don't get me wrong here people, this is not a bash on NEC. I love my NEC plasma and its performance is top notch, I just dislike the panels constant need for attention.

Tony, thanks for the response. I pretty much have the same impression you do -- either (1) I'm insane or (2) something's off with this panel.

(1) As to whether I'm just seeing things, I'm pretty certain I'm not. You definitely have to look for it, but you can see it. My wife saw it last night and again this morning.

Now, I want to be clear again that unless you're using a solid, light color on the screen (like the white setting or the lighter/medium greys in the burnin DVD), you just can't see it. Maybe, maybe you can get a sense that there's something there, but I think that's more likely just me stretching to see something than something being detectable. And certainly you don't see anything when watching normal channels.

But it's there. And you'll have to take my word for it, but I'm not the type of guy to have a false positive like this.

(2) So that leads to the conclusion that something's up with this panel. I will bring this to NEC's attention and see what they'll do for me. Until then, here's my plan: tonight I'm having someone over and we're going to watch the game on YESHD. No screen wiper, no aspect change. The scoreboard bar and logo will be there and they'll go off during the commercials or replays as they normally do. We might flip over to the NBA game, but I think one long inning should be enough to replicate what I had with ESPN last night -- about 20-40 minutes of a sustained logo. I'll let y'all know if I see something. (I'll be calling NEC this weekend no matter what, of course.)

In the end, I really think it has to be a panel problem. My wife threw a sh!t fit over this because I've been, to paraphrase Seinfeld, a plasma-Nazi during the breakin period. I think if I said "Even after 100 hours, please still put it on standy if you're gonna pause for more than a minute or two" one more time, she'd ask for a divorce. So she's been a little pissed that it was me who gave it this problem.

But as I said to her, I had less than an hour, if not 45 minutes, of a constant white logo on the screen. With my brightness and contrast well below factory levels. After 100 hours of use. If all panels did this, they wouldn't sell any.

(Still, I'm freaking out, as I fear a "you're SOL"-like response from NEC. Thanks for reading my e-hyperventilating :) ).

Muttt,

I noticed that if you are trying to get IR off of the screen, using all white or all solid screens (i.e. breakin dvd), does no good, and if anything makes it worse. You have to remember the IR is really just certain pixels being brighter/darker for a prolonged period of time. The best way to get rid of it is to play moving video that will “exercise” (for lack of a better word) all of the pixels differently.

If you have some IR and then try to get rid of it with white or blank screens you are just going to make it more pronounced….which it sounds like you may be doing. Try running discovery hd or something for 15 minutes. If it is still there after that, then yes call NEC cause something is fishy.

Good luck!

Edit: And don't worry about an SOL response from NEC. If there really is something wrong, they'll be the first to correct it. My dealings with them have been top notch.

Thanks, Tony. FWIW after doing some inverse last night I just watched ESPN on 2.35:1...

remember you can always go to the screen swipe. for a min or two and it cleans up every very well..
db

That is no way to have to watch this panel though. If your not enjoying it correctly, it's not fun. I never baby sit my panel like that and never had problems. Is your IR gone? If not, call NEC and let them know. You really should not have to be watching tv like that.

Mutt,
Tony17 has good advice...

plus take a look at this post and its orginal and followup...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7142361#post7142361

its about a guy that left a static image on overnight, had sever IR, and what he did... plus I also agree just watching regular TV (not inverse etc) it the best way to get rid of IR... although I am speaking a little from inexperience , because I have never had much, I have never even used the wiper, inverse etc... I just mix my content....

(1) As to whether I'm just seeing things, I'm pretty certain I'm not. You definitely have to look for it, but you can see it. My wife saw it last night and again this morning.

mutt,

You're not seeing things, I have the same observations and concerns. And I doubt it is your panel, as mine does the same thing.

Unfortunately at approximately 600 hours I foolishly left CNBC on for around 10 hours to test IR. The CNBC logo is still there a couple hundred hours later. It is faint, but there. I know, I'm the jerk that left the static images on for this long.

Please post your findings as I have the same concerns as you. I also don't see the IR becoming less as the panel ages. I'm afraid to watch anything with a static image for any length of time.

I really don't understand proper use of the white screen, wiper, reverse video, orbiter etc. None of it is documented in the manual. Anything you find out in your testing or from NEC is greatly appreciated.

RK

bvader -- thanks for the link. It was actually tony's response to that post (in which he suggested the breakin dvd) that prompted me to try the breakin dvd fix. I'll work on logging some DHD hours. And, as I mentioned, I'll be watching the game tonight so hopefully that will help wash out that pesky ESPN.

RK - I'm sorry to hear about your retention issue. I'll let you know how things turn out for me.


FWIW, I'm still leaning toward questions about whether my panel's a bit off in any way. I don't think we've had any other reports of long-lasting IR from less than an hour of a static logo after over 100 hours on the panel. Just seems too odd.

bvader -- thanks for the link. It was actually tony's response to that post (in which he suggested the breakin dvd) that prompted me to try the breakin dvd fix. I'll work on logging some DHD hours. And, as I mentioned, I'll be watching the game tonight so hopefully that will help wash out that pesky ESPN.

Ooops...sorry my intention was to show a happy ending...


FWIW, I'm still leaning toward questions about whether my panel's a bit off in any way. I don't think we've had any other reports of long-lasting IR from less than an hour of a static logo after over 100 hours on the panel. Just seems too odd.
hmmmm, maybe so....and hour of anything should clean up in 10 minutesor less or so of watching DISCHD IMHO ....(assuming no making it worse etc)

Muttt,

I noticed that if you are trying to get IR off of the screen, using all white or all solid screens (i.e. breakin dvd), does no good, and if anything makes it worse.
This may be true in theory, but completely false in practice. I have had my 50XM4 (last year's model) for 18 months and IR has been consistent. The DirecTV logo on the HD TiVo's Menus is the most common soure of IR in my use. If a menu has been displayed for a minute or so, I can see its IR when I start watching a show. I usually turn on the white screen on for 30 seconds or so to completely clear the IR. It never gets worse by using the white screen.

Yeah, your probably right...it doesn't get worse, but it definitely takes longer for it to go away than if I use moving video. At least that is what my experience has been.

I've been a little surprised at just how quickly IR takes place, a static image of a 3-4 mintues can still be noticed up to 10 minutes later. My panel is fairly new so perhaps this will diminish over time. I knew about the IR prior to purchase but I have to say it's been a little worse then I expected.

I've played Hexic HD on my 360 for hours on end, and yes it has left a bit of IR, it's usually gone within 5-10 minutes at the most, and it is only noticeable if watching a completely black or completely white (or completely gray for that matter ;)) screen, which doesn't happen all that often.

Quick question for the XBox 360 people. Seeing as the two connections for the 360 are either Component or VGA, would one assume that we should see a better picture quality from the VGA connection?

Only reason I ask this is because if I go into the XBox 360 dashboard and set the display to 720p or 1080i, it is skewed pretty badly, at least until the game itself starts playing. I would assume that a VGA connection would fix this?

I've been a little surprised at just how quickly IR takes place, a static image of a 3-4 mintues can still be noticed up to 10 minutes later. My panel is fairly new so perhaps this will diminish over time. I knew about the IR prior to purchase but I have to say it's been a little worse then I expected.

Those poor NEC/Pioneer guys. ;)

I've been a little surprised at just how quickly IR takes place, a static image of a 3-4 mintues can still be noticed up to 10 minutes later. My panel is fairly new so perhaps this will diminish over time. I knew about the IR prior to purchase but I have to say it's been a little worse then I expected.


My advice is not focus on the IR. Enjoy the rest of the image :D

After awhile it won't bother you one bit....it's like the first dent or scratch on your new car.

The funny thing is, until this issue, I hadn't noticed ANY IR. And I had started to even look for it a little bit, given that I hadn't seen any. Oh, well. My wife has been running DHD for me for a few hours so hopefully that pesky logo will be gone when I return home. (crosses fingers)

My advice is not focus on the IR. Enjoy the rest of the image :D

After awhile it won't bother you one bit....it's like the first dent or scratch on your new car.

I'm sure that's part of the problem, I've been looking for it a little too much which is a shame as the rest of the image looks really, really good.

The funny thing is, until this issue, I hadn't noticed ANY IR. And I had started to even look for it a little bit, given that I hadn't seen any. Oh, well. My wife has been running DHD for me for a few hours so hopefully that pesky logo will be gone when I return home. (crosses fingers)


Enjoy the set as it is meant to be from day 1. My advice is don't bother with a break in disk not bother with running all these white and black wipers (this is not a car) or what not! This is product is designed for watching TV - nothing more, nothing less. You have 3 years of warranty should anything happen to the set. NEC will personally come to your home to fix it.

So relax and enjoy....if there is a logo or some image retained...give it some time and it'll go away. IF it's a huge problem, life is short - sell it on ebay or place an ad in your local paper. You'll probably get a good price then get another display that doesn't have the same problem. But then, it may have something else wrong with it. Then you'll have to do the same cycle again and again until you have the perfect display....but then you'd have wasted all this time and not enjoyed the plasma because you were looking for perfection.

Only God is perfect, everything else is imperfect. My 2 cents.. :)

Those poor NEC/Pioneer guys. ;)
Oh please! Like your panasonic is any better. ;)

Plaz, I'm with you. I was careful for 100 hours, and now I just want to watch TV. And I am.

Tonight I watched the second half of the NBA finals. And, sure enough, after the game I had some IR from the score bar near the bottom of the screen.

So I watched DiscoveryHD for a few minutes, and no more IR.

But I still have that faint ESPN logo. Which, with all respect, I don't think I'm wrong to be a little miffed about and a little worried about. As I mentioned in my original post, I had that ticker on for less than an hour. And it appears to be permanent, as I've been watching moving images over it for a while now. That simply should not happen and I don't think any one else has reported any permanent IR/burn from such a short duration. I'll keep everyone updated once I talk to NEC.

Oh please! Like your panasonic is any better. ;)



what is better is better :D

Oh please! Like your panasonic is any better. ;)

Hey, Plasma of the year...what can I say. :D

Those of you with IR problems, make sure you calibrate! Often times this will solve many of the IR problems due to the brightness levels. My Pio had IR with some games during the initial use and when I used the non-calibrated modes (such as dynamic). If I used the calibrated setting I never got any IR.

I've still had zero problems with my 42XR4. It seems that most of the complaints are coming from 50XR5 owners. The glass being completely different seems to be the crux of the difference in burn in susceptibility.

That being said, my 50XR5 has had no problems. I've probably got around 700 hours. I was initially worried about use from my roomates, they're a lost cause as far as learning how to baby a TV, so I gave in after about 30 hours of use. We watch sports, movies, shows with logos....never had more than just a few minutes of IR that quickly dissipates after changing the channel.

Thought you guys would be interested in knowing that Engadget.com rated the NEC plasmas the top flat panel TV (beating the Pioneer and Panasonic plasmas, and Sony SXRD RP).

http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/08/the-clicker-five-of-the-top-it-tvs-and-who-theyd-be-in-rea/

Thought you guys would be interested in knowing that Engadget.com rated the NEC plasmas the top flat panel TV (beating the Pioneer and Panasonic plasmas, and Sony SXRD RP).

http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/08/the-clicker-five-of-the-top-it-tvs-and-who-theyd-be-in-rea/

Sure doesn't look like a TV contest. ;)

No dought the 50XR5 deserves it !! I have to regreat that I am going to have to let mine go. I see a 61XR4 in my future ;)

No dought the 50XR5 deserves it !! I have to regreat that I am going to have to let mine go. I see a 61XR4 in my future ;)

Chris: Take my word for this, as I've now seen the 61XR4, either keep the 50" NEC you presently have or spring the extra $$ for the 65" Panny. Pioneer/NEC needs to upgrade their 61" sets in the next generation to keep up in the over 60" market. They've both fallen behind.

Chris: Take my word for this, as I've now seen the 61XR4, either keep the 50" NEC you presently have or spring the extra $$ for the 65" Panny. Pioneer/NEC needs to upgrade their 61" sets in the next generation to keep up in the over 60" market. They've both fallen behind.

As I'm interested in a 60+ inch set, why does the NEC fall short? What is it about the picture quality that disappointed you, or what is it about the 50 incher that you think looks better?

Chris: Take my word for this, as I've now seen the 61XR4, either keep the 50" NEC you presently have or spring the extra $$ for the 65" Panny. Pioneer/NEC needs to upgrade their 61" sets in the next generation to keep up in the over 60" market. They've both fallen behind.

Since I own a 61XR4, I'll counter with a "You'll like it just fine."

As you point out, the 65" Panny is extra $$$. Quite a bit extra in fact for only 4" of diagonal. For me, there is no way the picture could be that much better to justify the extra cost.

Will the 61/60XR5 (or whatever they call it) be better than 61XR4? Probably, but it's a fine set as it stands right now and if 50" is too small, then go with the NEC.

Folks, I have a slight issue I'd like help with.

My 42XR4 is looking great. However, I'm having trouble getting appropriate detail in the blacks on my set. People in half-lit scenes wearing dark clothes just look cut out of the background - I can't see the folds of their clothes.

I've adjusted gamma, calibrated from DVE, played with brightness, etc. I will post my settings once I get home, but I'd appreciate tips or tricks you have found to bringing out more dark detail. I'm not talking about black level, which is fine, just the detail of those blacks.

Thanks folks!

Trent

Since I own a 61XR4, I'll counter with a "You'll like it just fine."

As you point out, the 65" Panny is extra $$$. Quite a bit extra in fact for only 4" of diagonal. For me, there is no way the picture could be that much better to justify the extra cost.

Will the 61/60XR5 (or whatever they call it) be better than 61XR4? Probably, but it's a fine set as it stands right now and if 50" is too small, then go with the NEC.

JVincent: No disrespect intended here. I know that the 61XR4 is a nice panel. But, since I know that Chris is now used to his 50XR5, I fear that the difference in PQ between the 50XR5 (which I have also seen) and the 61XR4 will make him regret the switch to the 61" NEC. Since I know that he has access to the Panasonic as well, I am convinced that - if he is determined to go to the larger size - he'd be much happier with the Panny.

On balance, I think he should stick with the 50XR5 and simply wait for the next generation Pioneer/NEC/Panny 60" panels (hopefully, they'll all be full 1080p spec).

As I'm interested in a 60+ inch set, why does the NEC fall short? What is it about the picture quality that disappointed you, or what is it about the 50 incher that you think looks better?

Hifisponge: The 60XR4 is a nice panel but the 50XR5 is a stellar panel. I simply fear that switching from the 50" to the 60" panel will not be a satisfying experience. The 61" NEC picture is noticeably softer and not as bright. (But, I do think it is marginally better than the 61" Pioneer.) The 50XR5 has a lot of "punch."

The 61" NEC picture is noticeably softer and not as bright. (But, I do think it is marginally better than the 61" Pioneer.) The 50XR5 has a lot of "punch."

No sweat, I'm not saying that the 61XR4 is perfect, but then again nothing is.

Specifically to the points you raise, softness and brightness, what was driving the 61XR4?

The reason I ask is that I find the 61" plenty bright. I've got mine calibrated for max contrast ratio for both DVD and HD inputs using the GetGray DVD and a native HD test pattern and brightness is not a problem. If anything the weak point of the 61" NEC is black level.

Similarly for sharpeness. I've got an HTPC connected to my NEC, via HDMI, and I actually turned off extra sharpening post-processing because I found that the panel was fine as is.

Hey, Plasma of the year...what can I say. :D

dude you need a life..... bad :rolleyes:

No sweat, I'm not saying that the 61XR4 is perfect, but then again nothing is.

Specifically to the points you raise, softness and brightness, what was driving the 61XR4?

The reason I ask is that I find the 61" plenty bright. I've got mine calibrated for max contrast ratio for both DVD and HD inputs using the GetGray DVD and a native HD test pattern and brightness is not a problem. If anything the weak point of the 61" NEC is black level.

Similarly for sharpeness. I've got an HTPC connected to my NEC, via HDMI, and I actually turned off extra sharpening post-processing because I found that the panel was fine as is.

I don't disagree about the black level comment, although I don't think that the black level is bad (at all) for every day viewing. My brightness/softness comment related to a comparison that I noted at a friend's house where he has both in one room (one on top of the other in a great room) and reflects the side-by-side (or, in this case, the bottom - top comparison). We were watching sports events on both panels last night (one was the Yankees/Red Sox game in HD; the other was the NBA finals in HD). The PQ on the 50XR5 was noticeably better and that's what is fueling my comments. At first we thought it was the fact that we were watching the Yankees game on the 50XR5 and baseball, by its nature, tends to be more spectacular in HD than basketball. But, we switched channels on both and we both agreed that the PQ of the 50XR5 was noticeably better regardless.

....but the 50XR5 is a stellar panel.

Not bad, I'd say, coming from a Panny owner.


Watch out, here comes E. :)

Not bad, I'd say, coming from a Panny owner.


Watch out, here comes E. :)

I heard you guys raving about it and recommended it to him (the 50XR5) as he was in the market and the Panny 8UK's were nowhere to be had at the time. He ended up purchasing both the 50" and the 61" when redoing his great room, replacing an old 40" Mitsubishi CRT and 32" (I think) Sony CRT. Talk about an upgrade! The great room is spectacular, as you might imagine.

....And, you think I don't pay attention to you guys. ;)

I get no IR(of course, I am not looking for it) and I think this might be because I have zoomed some of the logos out(I do watch Baseball almost every day and the bar with the score should cause IR, but it does not) and I use Cpcat's settings. Either I am blind (which I am not), I have the perfect NEC (50XM5), by zooming out the logos I win, or Cpcat's settings are better than one can hope.

Not bad, I'd say, coming from a Panny owner.


Watch out, here comes E. :)
mr cpcat... you wouldn't be an Entourage fan now would you?

Hey, Plasma of the year...what can I say. :D
Obviously they failed to include the NEC brand when declaring Panasonic "Plasma of the year". By the way "E", you are posting in the wrong thread. Do you secretly have a little panel envy going on here? I don't go poking my nose in panasonic threads. What would be the purpose? Take care! :p

...I have the perfect NEC (50XM5), by zooming out the logos I win, or Cpcat's settings are better than one can hope.
Probably both...
I use Zoom often... a few clicks ... a few clicks there... it is simply awesome on the NEC...way better than I have seen on other panel...
Brought to you by a baised NEC owner

Probably both...
I use Zoom often... a few clicks ... a few clicks there... it is simply awesome on the NEC...way better than I have seen on other panel...
Brought to you by a baised NEC owner
I agree there is no panel that zoomes like an NEC......

Obviously they failed to include the NEC brand when declaring Panasonic "Plasma of the year". By the way "E", you are posting in the wrong thread. Do you secretly have a little panel envy going on here? I don't go poking my nose in panasonic threads. What would be the purpose? Take care! :p

Yeah ok, if you say so. ;)
Ok, I did not realize you had to own an NEC to post in this thread. :rolleyes:

Yeah ok, if you say so. ;)
Ok, I did not realize you had to own an NEC to post in this thread. :rolleyes:

You don't have to own an NEC to post here, but it would be better if you were at least constructive in your comments. I've seen you're posts in this thread and others, and for the most part they tend to be snipes, pot shots and arguments for the sake of argument.

This forum is here to share information and experiences so we can all make well informed decisions and learn more about a common interest. The content of your posts tend to distract from that.

If this is not your intent, you should know that this is how you are comming across. If this is you're intent, please find your entertainment elsewhere.

- Tim

I agree there is no panel that zoomes like an NEC......


Yes. An overlooked but valuable feature. I didn't realize how good it was until I no longer had the XR5. Perhaps Pioneer will incorporate it into their upcoming displays...

If this is not your intent, you should know that this is how you are comming across. If this is you're intent, please find your entertainment elsewhere. - Tim

It is not but I am not part of the NEC herd so don't expect that. :cool:

....And, you think I don't pay attention to you guys. ;)


It's easier to give credit where it's due when you don't suffer from panel envy.

Size does matter (or this is what I'm told). :D

It's easier to give credit where it's due when you don't suffer from panel envy. :D

Just to clarify, I actually do admire the precision of the NEC's.
I don't think they are better overall though..... :)

It's easier to give credit where it's due when you don't suffer from panel envy.

Size does matter (or this is what I'm told). :D

Cpcat: There's no reason for envy regardless of panel size as all of these panels are outstanding. Many people may not feel comfortable having a huge panel in a family room of their house and most don't have the funds to have dedicated home theatre rooms.

Are NEC panels better than those made by Panny or Pioneer in some respects? Probably. But, the others are also better than the NEC panels in other respects. In the end, they're all good, but each brand tends to emphasize different features. What is pretty obvious, however, is that smaller panels tend to be brighter than larger ones on the whole and tend to be sharper as well. That's why there's such a push for 1080p (although we'll have to wait and see if 1080p results - at least initially - in less bright panels due to the greater panel pixel density) and that's also why so many forum members are anxious to see how the newer bigger panels benefit from 1080p.

I love my 65" Panny 8UK. But, I also am fairly certain that once I see a 1080p 65" panel (or similar sized 1080p panel), I'll probably wish that I had one of those instead. I honestly don't think that most owners of 50" and smaller panels will see as big a difference between their existing panels and the 1080p panels when the latter panels are introduced and become widespread. I suspect that the differences in every day viewing will be more like the differences we note in the EDTV and HDTV 42" panels, which many claim to be subtle at best.

So, you should be smiling because I think that you're going to enjoy your 50XR5 for years to come and avoid any substantial envy of those who get to purchase full spec 1080p 50" panels when they become mainstream in a couple of years or so. :)

If someone was willing to swapout my panel free of charge, I would take the same unit I have now, NEC PX-50XR5. Overall for value, PQ, and customer support. NO comparision out there for the price. Believe me I like all flat panels, but from what I have seen everyone else is a little behind. Thats my biased opinion. I can have any flat panel I want and in the 50" size there is nothing better for the price!!

If someone was willing to swapout my panel free of charge, I would take the same unit I have now, NEC PX-50XR5. Overall for value, PQ, and customer support. NO comparision out there for the price. Believe me I like all flat panels, but from what I have seen everyone else is a little behind. Thats my biased opinion. I can have any flat panel I want and in the 50" size there is nothing better !!

I appreciate your opinion, but what I think needs to be emphasized is what you also note, i.e. that everyone else is "a little" behind. Differences between high quality panel PQ is, by and large, marginal and of little or no consequence for most buyers as PQ today is (essentially) excellent across the board regardless of make. Unless you can see an actual side-by-side comparison between panels, one is not likely to even take notice of differences in PQ. That's why JVincent may not be able to appreciate my observation of the differences in PQ between the 50XR5 and the 61XR4. I'm certain that the 61XR4 looks great in JVincent's room, especially as it is not placed immediately to the side or above/below another high quality 50" panel. I also believe that most buyers of 50" panels will feel the same way unless they see their panel side-by-side another premier 50" panel.

I made my comment and suggestion regarding the 61" NEC vs. the 50" NEC to you, Chris, because I have a sense about just how discriminating you are when it comes to PQ and also because you will be in a position to see the 2 displays side-by-side if you ever swap one out for the other. It is for these reasons that I didn't think you'd be happy with the change.

I can have any flat panel I want and in the 50" size there is nothing better !!

WHat? No Fujitsu? ;)

^^^^ "Overall for value"...I did have this in there. Paying almost 100% more for a Runco or Fujitsu in my book is not worth it.

So, you should be smiling because I think that you're going to enjoy your 50XR5 for years to come and avoid any substantial envy of those who get to purchase full spec 1080p 50" panels when they become mainstream in a couple of years or so. :)

I'm very happy but 60 or 65 hopefully will be coming relatively soon to a home theater near me. ;)

I sit at around 15 feet away and I think even at 65 inches I'd have to be convinced by seeing the 1080p version before I'd plunk down the extra cash.

I also have some concerns that the 1080p version may have less relative light output and subject to more video noise than the comparable 768p.

I've heard complaints of excessive video noise on some of the 1080p LCD models.

I've heard complaints of excessive video noise on some of the 1080p LCD models.

Of course, a 1080p display will demand better source material or you will see it.

I'm very happy but 60 or 65 hopefully will be coming relatively soon to a home theater near me. ;)

I sit at around 15 feet away and I think even at 65 inches I'd have to be convinced by seeing the 1080p version before I'd plunk down the extra cash.

I also have some concerns that the 1080p version may have less relative light output and subject to more video noise than the comparable 768p.

I've heard complaints of excessive video noise on some of the 1080p LCD models.

I think that LCD's by their very nature exhibit more video noise. At least that's been my experience with my Sharp LCD vs. the Panny plasma. I too keep telling myself the same thing that you mentioned about sitting distance and the benefit of 1080p as I generally sit 11'-12' from the 65" Panny, i.e. that 1080p would not make a noticeable difference in my room environment (in which the closest seating area is where I sit and the most distant is around 19'). But, I also know - on balance - that if 1080p was available when I made my purchase, I'd have opted for it over 768p, especially given the amount of $$$$ that the investment required. That's why I recommend others to wait for 1080p if purchasing a display over 60" in size. Having said that, I also admit that I wouldn't trade the 65" for a smaller panel (and, perhaps, that's really what JVincent's point was all along when he commented about his 61" NEC).

12 feet is the "watershed" distance for a 65 inch screen when considering 768p vs. 1080p screen resolution based on fairly convervative estimates that I've seen.
"Conservative" meaning in this case a slight bias towards getting a 1080p screen.

So assuming comparable light output and no added noise issues, you'd probably see a better image.

quick questions regarding the NEC XM5 (I'm trying to decide between the XR5 and XM5) -

1) Has anyone tried connecting a 1080p source (scaler/HTPC probably) to the XM5? and has the picture been any better then connecting 720p to the panel?

I prefer the looks of the XR5, however being 1080p capable would be nice for Blue Ray - so I could passthrough 1080p via my scaler without messing the PQ.

I have also read somwhere, hence the question, that you normally get a better PQ by upscaling the image only once - ie: sending 1080p ot the panel - the panel then downscales images (1080p to 768p).

2) I also think I saw photos of the XM5 with the stand of the XR5 - does it fit properly?

Many thanks,

Regards,

Marcelo
PS: I know it would probably be best if I sent a native rate signal (768p) to the panel, however with NR you loose the ability to engage in Noise Reduction and the non-linear stretch mode of the NEC which is really, really good .....

I own the XM5 and a friend of mine brought over his new Toshiba HD player to see if he wants to get the XM5. The picture quality was fantastic. This was a very brief test as he had to take his son to his baseball game. We ran a HDMI/DVI cable to the NEC and used my Audio Aero Capitole to process the sound. We did not get a chance to try all of the settings so we just sent the 1080p into the NEC and this was very good.

I almost bought the Toshiba that same day but I also want to see how Blu Ray does.

Marcello

I thought I read here that the xr5 did 1080p24 over components, correct me if I am wrong, does the xm5 do it over hdmi.?
I am waiting for the vp30 with the abt card to be delivered next week, I originally considered the vp20 but for 200 more and the free card I couldn't resist :)
anyway I am sure cpcat will answer that he is the MAN :) :)

Marcello

I thought I read here that the xr5 did 1080p24 over components, correct me if I am wrong, does the xm5 do it over hdmi.?
I am waiting for the vp30 with the abt card to be delivered next week, I originally considered the vp20 but for 200 more and the free card I couldn't resist :)
anyway I am sure cpcat will answer that he is the MAN :) :)


I don't think anyone really knows. Here's what I know:

The XM5/XM4 accepts 1080p60 over component, VGA, and DVI.
The XR5/XR4 accepts 1080p60 over component, VGA
The XR5/XR4 does not accept either 1080p60 nor 1080p24sf over HDMI.
The XR5/XR4 does not accept 1080p24sf over component.

I know basically squat about 1080p24 as I couldn't figure out a way to get my scaler to output this signal and there aren't any other signals available that I'm aware of at this point with which to test it. It is an ATSC spec'd resolution so it's certainly possible that it's supported.

1080p24 does not equal 1080p24sf. Basically, as I understand it, 1080p24sf is more like 1080i48.

1080p24 is the native signal on HD DVD and BD so that's what we're concerned about.

Marcello

I thought I read here that the xr5 did 1080p24 over components, correct me if I am wrong, does the xm5 do it over hdmi.?
I am waiting for the vp30 with the abt card to be delivered next week, I originally considered the vp20 but for 200 more and the free card I couldn't resist :)
anyway I am sure cpcat will answer that he is the MAN :) :)

Hi Cirob,

As Cpcat says, it is confirmed the XM5 takes 1080p 60/50 over DVI ....

I've got the vp30 with abt102 card also ...... unclejeff, good to know 1080p over dvi works and the picture is excellent...... I see a HD/BR player in our future!

Thanks unclejeff, cirob & cpcat for your replies - much appreciated.

Cheers,

Marcelo

I have been reading this thread for the last 3 months. When I originally stumbled upon the AVS site I was primarily considering the 1140's and 5060's. Thanks to some fantastic help from Chris at Cleveland Plasma, I have for the last 4 days been enjoying the NBA finals and WC soccer via a glorious new panel that I, begrudgingly, purchased sight unseen. A very big thanks to each of you guys and gals for posting your reactions/thoughts regarding the monitor - I couldn't be happier with my purchase and I am quite positive that I wouldn't be here without your reviews. CPCAT, I just implemented your settings and I'm not sure broadcast images could look much better. Short story long, I am very happy to be a new XR5 owner. GO MAVS!

Congratulations bluecardinal!

Enjoy. :)

CPCAT: i was just re-calibratining my XR w/AVIA. So iwent into the advanced setting.
There is no instuctions on why/how to use these advanced setting. no even on their website. Can you tell us- when =where-how-- why. we should use these adv-setting.
{reallizing a ISF pro- would use these- but i am sure they have their own specilized tools-disk}
Thanks,
db

CPCAT: i was just re-calibratining my XR w/AVIA. So iwent into the advanced setting.
There is no instuctions on why/how to use these advanced setting. no even on their website. Can you tell us- when =where-how-- why. we should use these adv-setting.
{reallizing a ISF pro- would use these- but i am sure they have their own specilized tools-disk}
Thanks,
db

You can highlight and select the question mark beside each item in the menu for info on each specific test pattern.

hey cat
did you upgrade your A1 to v1.3 and if you did do you see any changes. I have it on cd but haven't tried yet, I have the 1.2 and happy with it so far. Last night I watched bourne supremacy, what a picture, 3d like, what a nice combo the A1 and the 50xr5

Just an update:

I called NEC support and explained the issue. The guy was very helpful and noted that while burn-in is not normally covered under the warranty, they do take things on a case-by-case basis and he admitted that my situation, assuming it is as I described, is abnormal.

The first step is having an authorized servicer come over to observe the problem and confirm that it's burn-in. We'll see how that goes once I make an appointment...

Just an update:

I called NEC support and explained the issue. The guy was very helpful and noted that while burn-in is not normally covered under the warranty, they do take things on a case-by-case basis and he admitted that my situation, assuming it is as I described, is abnormal.

The first step is having an authorized servicer come over to observe the problem and confirm that it's burn-in. We'll see how that goes once I make an appointment...
Good to hear all around... May Be Abnormal... NEC Being Responsive... case-by-case basis... This all good, only thing bad is that you had to experience it.

I have been looking a little closer at my panel recently due to this discussion, and I can say after watching BBal, or World Cup that the very faint Scoreboard IR, can only be seen on a grey screen and disappears within minutes of viewing other content....hopefully you can get back to that level.

Ohh and lets us know what happens...

hey cat
did you upgrade your A1 to v1.3 and if you did do you see any changes. I have it on cd but haven't tried yet, I have the 1.2 and happy with it so far. Last night I watched bourne supremacy, what a picture, 3d like, what a nice combo the A1 and the 50xr5

I'm using 1.3 but I honestly can't say there's any difference compared to 1.2.
Just had to try it though. :)

Thanks for the support BV.

It's not the most terrible experience. As I mentioned, it doesn't really affect normal viewing. My primary concern is going forward -- if I got some burn-in, however slight, from such a short viewing period, could it happen again/get worse?

A positive development in that regard is that I have experienced some normal IR, which I call "normal" since it disappears after 10 minutes of viewing another channel (or less). Anyway, more updates are to come.

I'm very happy but 60 or 65 hopefully will be coming relatively soon to a home theater near me. ;)

I sit at around 15 feet away and I think even at 65 inches I'd have to be convinced by seeing the 1080p version before I'd plunk down the extra cash.

I also have some concerns that the 1080p version may have less relative light output and subject to more video noise than the comparable 768p.

I've heard complaints of excessive video noise on some of the 1080p LCD models.

I saw the 57" Samsung 1080p panel last weekend and there was plenty of video noise, though not significantly more than the nearby Panny or Pio plasmas when you take into account their smaller size. Perhaps the split HD feeds is partly to blame.

I saw the 57" Samsung 1080p panel last weekend and there was plenty of video noise, though not significantly more than the nearby Panny or Pio plasmas when you take into account their smaller size. Perhaps the split HD feeds is partly to blame.

Interesting. I'll definitely be anxious to get a look at these when they're finally out in numbers.

Mutt Do you have your contrast set at real bright? I used factory setting for the first100-200 hours and I have been following Cpcat's settings since. I get no IR.

Mutt Do you have your contrast set at real bright? I used factory setting for the first100-200 hours and I have been following Cpcat's settings since. I get no IR.
Unclejeff,
No, I've been using LisaM's settings (I originally thought they were cpcat's, but they're LisaM's) with brightness turned down another few notches. Which means both brightness and contrast were well below factory settings.

As I've said, if the use that caused my burn-in caused burn-in for everyone, no one would buy a plasma. Clearly something's up.

Does anyone know if the XM5 will accept an SDI signal. Is the HD BNC connection the same thing?

I am using this monitor as a preview monitor for a video editing station in my post house, and the output from the computer is HD-SDI...

Does anyone know if the XM5 will accept an SDI signal. Is the HD BNC connection the same thing?

I am using this monitor as a preview monitor for a video editing station in my post house, and the output from the computer is HD-SDI...

No. Neither commercial nor consumer NECs have SDI inputs.

There's an SDI blade with the Panny commercials but it's very expensive and I can't recall hearing of anyone using one.

I think SDI-DVI converter boxes are out there.

The Lumagen Vision HDP video processor has an SDI input option available.

Hi everyone,

I am currently in the market looking for a HDTV. I know that I want plasma, and i REALLY REALLY like all that I have heard and seen reported on the NEC-50xr5, but I have some concerns and questions. I have taken the time to read through 66 pages of this thread, and will continue working on it, but was hoping maybe someone could assist me with the following questions:
-I am primarily buying the TV for movies, (DVD and eventually HDDVD/Blueray), and gaming. I plan on getting an XBOX360 with it, and maybe a PS3 as well. Reading through this post history, I was all but sold on it until I started reading reports of image retention issues. Is this something that would be a serious concern for someone who occasionally wants to game 3-5 hours. I really like all that I see and hear on the NEC, but I don't want to be constantly dealing with IR, or having fears of it, (yea, I plan on babying it the first 150-300 hours to break it in).
-Where I plan on putting the screen does not have a cable jack close by, so I will need a tuner short term to get HD channels, and some local SD channels. Any suggestions on a decent tuner?
-Speaker wise, I currently have a Yamaha Surround system. Would it be recommended to pick up some smaller speakers to feed off the back of the system for SD TV viewing, (I don't really want to have to power up the surround system every time I watch the news/etc.)?
-Extended warranties...the rx5 has a 1/3 warranty, with 1yr on the panel. Would it be a good idea to get an extended one, (I see many of you passing, and many advocates for it as well). What typically breaks a plasma TV when something goes bad? Is the panel more or less likely to break compared to other electronics in the TV?
-Here is one I am totally clueless on...what cables do I need to get going? I currently have an older DVD player, that I don't think is even prog-scan. I plan on upgrading eventually, but not immediately. What is the best connection for a XBOX360 (HDMI or component?)? How about the DVD (HDMI?)? Surround sound?
-And finally, Chris of Cleveland plasma, plz check your PM's :)

Thanks to all who can help me out. I will continue to go through the thread to learn, but any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

-Dustin

Hi everyone,

I am currently in the market looking for a HDTV. I know that I want plasma, and i REALLY REALLY like all that I have heard and seen reported on the NEC-50xr5, but I have some concerns and questions. I have taken the time to read through 66 pages of this thread, and will continue working on it, but was hoping maybe someone could assist me with the following questions:

Hello Dustin, welcome to the NEC thread! I purchased my XR5A from Chris about 3 months ago and still in love with this beautiful piece of electronic art.

I'll give my thoughts/answers, but I'm sure those like cpcat who are much more knowledgeable than I will pipe in as well.


-I am primarily buying the TV for movies, (DVD and eventually HDDVD/Blueray), and gaming. I plan on getting an XBOX360 with it, and maybe a PS3 as well. Reading through this post history, I was all but sold on it until I started reading reports of image retention issues. Is this something that would be a serious concern for someone who occasionally wants to game 3-5 hours. I really like all that I see and hear on the NEC, but I don't want to be constantly dealing with IR, or having fears of it, (yea, I plan on babying it the first 150-300 hours to break it in).

IR is real. Honestly, it is just the nature of the beast with plasma. I've had times when I've played 5-8 hour stints of XBOX 360 and yes, I've had some IR, but it goes away within minutes, and the only way I see it is if I get a completely blank screen, or I'm right up on the panel straining to see it. It's no biggie. I have a hair over 300 hours on my set, and the only 2 complaints I have are 1) Why didn't I buy a NEC sooner and 2) Why didn't I get a bigger screen. :D

-Where I plan on putting the screen does not have a cable jack close by, so I will need a tuner short term to get HD channels, and some local SD channels. Any suggestions on a decent tuner?

I don't have much experience with standalone OTA tuners. I have one built-in to my DirecTV receiver. I'm sure someone else on this board can give a better idea.

-Speaker wise, I currently have a Yamaha Surround system. Would it be recommended to pick up some smaller speakers to feed off the back of the system for SD TV viewing, (I don't really want to have to power up the surround system every time I watch the news/etc.)?

IMHO, for what the NEC speakers cost, you're almost better off just using the surround sound system. I have it set on my Yamaha Receiver that it will only play through the front 3 speakers (plus LFE) when we're watching regular TV. At the flick of the remote, I can have 5.1 if the program we're watching supports it.

-Extended warranties...the rx5 has a 1/3 warranty, with 1yr on the panel. Would it be a good idea to get an extended one, (I see many of you passing, and many advocates for it as well). What typically breaks a plasma TV when something goes bad? Is the panel more or less likely to break compared to other electronics in the TV?

The XR series comes with a 3 year warranty, the XM series only has a 1 year warranty. Ultimately, it was the 3 year warranty that swayed me to the 50XR5A. I purchased an extended warranty for a little extra piece of mind. In hindsight it probably wasn't needed, but I sleep a little better knowing I'm covered.

[QUOTE=dlconner]-Here is one I am totally clueless on...what cables do I need to get going? I currently have an older DVD player, that I don't think is even prog-scan. I plan on upgrading eventually, but not immediately. What is the best connection for a XBOX360 (HDMI or component?)? How about the DVD (HDMI?)? Surround sound?

The 360 doesn't have an HDMI connection, you will need to connect via Component cable (that they provide). I'm considering trying to use the RGB connection to see if the picture is any better than component. I'm actually kinda pissed at Microsoft, IMHO, they really dropped the ball with the lack of an HDMI connection.

And as far as the rest, HDMI is the way to go. Some say that there isn't a difference between Component and HDMI, but to my eyes, I disagree. With the sound, if your source material (DVD, ect) and receiver will support it, go with optical audio connection (TOSLINK).

Check out www.monoprice.com for great cables and accessories at very reasonable prices.

Thanks to all who can help me out. I will continue to go through the thread to learn, but any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

-Dustin

We do what we can and we enjoy it. Even if you end up choosing something else, please feel free to stop back in and give your impressions, I know quite a few of us are interested in as many opinions on everything that we can get. :)

...The 360 doesn't have an HDMI connection, you will need to connect via Component cable (that they provide). I'm considering trying to use the RGB connection to see if the picture is any better than component. I'm actually kinda pissed at Microsoft, IMHO, they really dropped the ball with the lack of an HDMI connection. ...

I agree with you on the XB360 HDMI point.
Here's to hoping they release one seperately when they come out with the HD-DVD add on.

I have the HDMI switch from MonoPrice for my STB & DVD player currently.
I'm looking to add PS3 and possibly HD-DVD or BD next yr.
I'm disppointed that I can't currently use HDMI for XB360 :(

Still in love with this beautiful piece of electronic art.

What a fine piece of words. Is there life after NECS' quality and price point. If others only new!

anyone have complete measurements of this thing? I'm specifically trying to figure out how heigh this TV is when you put it on a TV stand so I can start shopping for a TV stand before i actually order the TV.

I guess what i'm looking for is the distance from the bottom of the stand to the center of the screen.

Somebody will probably beat me to it, but I'll measure when I get home tonight.

IR is real. Honestly, it is just the nature of the beast with plasma. I've had times when I've played 5-8 hour stints of XBOX 360 and yes, I've had some IR, but it goes away within minutes, and the only way I see it is if I get a completely blank screen, or I'm right up on the panel straining to see it. It's no biggie. I have a hair over 300 hours on my set, and the only 2 complaints I have are 1) Why didn't I buy a NEC sooner and 2) Why didn't I get a bigger screen. :D


BOSS10L,
Thanks for the response. Just one question on what you posted about IR. You mentioned that if its a completely blank screen, or your up close straining, you see IR. Is that only during the few minutes before it goes away, or is that a permanent effect due to the gaming?

Thanks again for your reply, great info there.

Dustin

So last night I re calibrated (AVIA)my xr5--new DVD player.
After using, CPCATs- Tony17- and my own findings. I calibrated two different memory setting- to see differences over different material-lighting, etc.
Batman Begins, came on over Comcast HBOHD>HDMI. Resolution was set to 720p(?). So I decided to watch it again.
The PQ was very-very good--- until the prison brake where the fog/steam comes on screen (White on White). The PQ was then bad- I could see bands of sq.’s in different colors-slight. Over all bad. You could see (I am not sure of the correct wording) layers of color lying on top of the fog- bands of artifacts- like an inverted pyramid steps. Then it would revert to a non-fog scene and PQ was Stunning- you could see blacks and detail fine.. Any thoughts on WHY? What do I need to change?
db

Any thoughts on WHY? What do I need to change?
db

What do you have "Low Tone" set to? If it's on Auto, change it to "3".

So last night I re calibrated (AVIA)my xr5--new DVD player.
After using, CPCATs- Tony17- and my own findings. I calibrated two different memory setting- to see differences over different material-lighting, etc.
Batman Begins, came on over Comcast HBOHD>HDMI. Resolution was set to 720p(?). So I decided to watch it again.
The PQ was very-very good--- until the prison brake where the fog/steam comes on screen (White on White). The PQ was then bad- I could see bands of sq.’s in different colors-slight. Over all bad. You could see (I am not sure of the correct wording) layers of color lying on top of the fog- bands of artifacts- like an inverted pyramid steps. Then it would revert to a non-fog scene and PQ was Stunning- you could see blacks and detail fine.. Any thoughts on WHY? What do I need to change?
db
Sounds like MPEG compression artifacts to me. Things like fog and rain are very hard to compress, and with the limited bandwidth allocated by cable companies to each channel doesn't help either. Doesn't sound like a panel issue. If you are coming from a analog CRT world, much of this noise would be "smoothed out" and less noticable. Digital displays are much less forgiving with overly compressed material.

Interesting you ask about "low tones" & #3. Those are the two differences I have in the two different memory setting. But I didn't see a difference- I’ll see if I can PVR batman and use it as my test pattern.
db



What do you have "Low Tone" set to? If it's on Auto, change it to "3".

BOSS10L,
Thanks for the response. Just one question on what you posted about IR. You mentioned that if its a completely blank screen, or your up close straining, you see IR. Is that only during the few minutes before it goes away, or is that a permanent effect due to the gaming?

Thanks again for your reply, great info there.

Dustin

Only during the few minutes before it goes away. As long as you're careful during the break-in period (I ran the break-in color DVD for about 112 hours first), you should be fine. Some people have even started using their NECs right out of the box with no real ill effects.

Thanks again BOSS10L. I figured you meant just the few minutes after for IR, but wanted to make sure. As for the XBOX360+HDMI, it is in the near future, along with the HD-DVD hardware mod they plan on releasing, (sorry for lack of links, can't quiet remember where I saw that yesterday...yahoo XBOX360 vs PS3 article maybe).

As for the standalone OTA tuners, anyone have any advice at all for these, (what is a good one)?

Thanks again,
Dustin

So last night I re calibrated (AVIA)my xr5--new DVD player.
After using, CPCATs- Tony17- and my own findings. I calibrated two different memory setting- to see differences over different material-lighting, etc.
Batman Begins, came on over Comcast HBOHD>HDMI. Resolution was set to 720p(?). So I decided to watch it again.
The PQ was very-very good--- until the prison brake where the fog/steam comes on screen (White on White). The PQ was then bad- I could see bands of sq.’s in different colors-slight. Over all bad. You could see (I am not sure of the correct wording) layers of color lying on top of the fog- bands of artifacts- like an inverted pyramid steps. Then it would revert to a non-fog scene and PQ was Stunning- you could see blacks and detail fine.. Any thoughts on WHY? What do I need to change?
db
DAB and others,
I have a slightly of topic question. I had the same experience with Comcast HBOHD via HDMI. I have the 50 xra. I would appreciate more feedback from others about the pros/cons of pairing the NEC with cable vs going to a Sat. feed. I am still convinced that the majority of my issues are with the source. I am consulting with other threads but still want to ask here. Specifically with the NEC any opinions on cable vs. Sat for best PQ?

Thanks, Greg

Specifically with the NEC any opinions on cable vs. Sat for best PQ?


Greg, it's really a question of whether or not your cable/satellite provider recompresses the signal.

There's nothing specific about the technology that makes cable or satellite better assuming you're getting the signal without errors.

Thanks again BOSS10L. I figured you meant just the few minutes after for IR, but wanted to make sure. As for the XBOX360+HDMI, it is in the near future, along with the HD-DVD hardware mod they plan on releasing, (sorry for lack of links, can't quiet remember where I saw that yesterday...yahoo XBOX360 vs PS3 article maybe).

As for the standalone OTA tuners, anyone have any advice at all for these, (what is a good one)?

Thanks again,
Dustin

No problem.

Check this part of the forum for OTA info:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=25

I hope MS offers an HDMI connection, but in all honesty, considering I already own a Toshiba standalone HD DVD player I doubt I'll be purchasing the 360 add-on drive.

I am seriously looking at the 50xr5, but before I plop down the $$$, I had a generic question concerning plasmas. I was in my local home cinema/hi-fi shop and was looking at a 42" Mitsubishi plasma broadcasting a DISH standard def channel. I thought it looked quite soft--softer than my 32" CRT at home. Maybe the Mitsubishi wasn't adjusted properly. I know that this question has been discussed before, but I would be very disappointed if, after getting my new 50xr5 home, standard def channels looked much better on my 6 year old $500 32" CRT than on my brand new $$$ 50" plasma. Please advise.

I am seriously looking at the 50xr5, but before I plop down the $$$, I had a generic question concerning plasmas. I was in my local home cinema/hi-fi shop and was looking at a 42" Mitsubishi plasma broadcasting a DISH standard def channel. I thought it looked quite soft--softer than my 32" CRT at home. Maybe the Mitsubishi wasn't adjusted properly. I know that this question has been discussed before, but I would be very disappointed if, after getting my new 50xr5 home, standard def channels looked much better on my 6 year old $500 32" CRT than on my brand new $$$ 50" plasma. Please advise.

one thing you also need to remember is that you are going from a 32" size to a 50" size..... so if you get the same source image, it may look softer, depending on the quality of the source.... however with HD it should look very, very good.

one thing you also need to remember is that you are going from a 32" size to a 50" size..... so if you get the same source image, it may look softer, depending on the quality of the source.... however with HD it should look very, very good.

So, are you happy with SD broadcast on your plasma, or do you (stupid question) watch SD broadcast on a CRT?

So, are you happy with SD broadcast on your plasma, or do you (stupid question) watch SD broadcast on a CRT?
To understand some of the issues and opinions(sometimes heated) about this subject check out this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=686104&highlight=Best+SD

Here is one of my replies
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7796542&&#post7796542

And a couple more...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7796616&&#post7796616

Amd yes I am happy, especially when the SD signal is good, when its not I put up with it.

So, are you happy with SD broadcast on your plasma, or do you (stupid question) watch SD broadcast on a CRT?

I am waiting for the XR5 - I currently watch SD broadcasts on a 32" CRT.

So, are you happy with SD broadcast on your plasma, or do you (stupid question) watch SD broadcast on a CRT?

I watch SD all the time on my 61XR4. It doesn't get any bigger than that.

Heck, maybe I will get a 42" ED plasma for SD viewing and and the 50" NEC for HD viewing--then my wife would kill me.

And while I am at it, on more question concerning the NEC plasmas: did any of you elect to go with speakers attached to the set and how do you like them?

Heck, maybe I will get a 42" ED plasma for SD viewing and and the 50" NEC for HD viewing--then my wife would kill me.

And while I am at it, on more question concerning the NEC plasmas: did any of you elect to go with speakers attached to the set and how do you like them?
The prevailing wisdom is, that they actually are for the 42" so the don't fit flush and they a bit expensive for what you get.

Well, I had Eliab Alvarez from Avical come to ISF my XR5 today and I have to say I am EXTREMELY pleased!

Eliab walked me through every step of the calibration and explained to me how everything worked. It is amazing how much calculation goes into getting each of the color values accurate. He was showing me the exact x and y axis values that need to be obtained in order to get the correct settings (I was truly humbled in my knowledge :) )

He first showed me the readings with the panel using my both my settings and CPCAT's. And for how good those settings look, it was amazing how far off we were according to accurate color temp, etc. For instance with mine and CPCAT's we are around 8400K, whereas we all know the standard is 6500K. Green and Red were also pretty far off, but Green was the most out of wack. Blue was pretty much dead on already.

Long story short (cause I don't have much time, but may post more when I get the chance), colors, skin tones and shadow detail is much improved. I put on SW EP III that I recorded off HBO HD since I was used to watching it recently (my son has to see it everynight before bed :) ) and I was just floored at the difference. The colors were much more realistic and I saw details in shadows like never before. For instance, in the elevator shafts towards the beginning, I could see every shaft and wall crevice like I never could before.

I know someone else had posted a bad experience in the settings thread with an ISF calibration, so I wanted to share mine as well. I think that person said his values were close to what was already posted, but I can tell you that mine were much different, especially the individual bias and gain settings (which ultimately helped to smooth the gray scale.

For anyone thinking about ISF, I highly recommend it. I would just make sure you get someone who knows what they are doing. Eliab was phenomenal. He spent 4 hours here today and explained every single detail and adjustment he made along with the corresponding effect it would have on the picture. I would highly recommend him to anyone thinking about it.

In summary, ISF'd 50XR5 now equals BLISS!

I just replaced my DVI cable to my 50XM5 with an Audioquest DV-3 cable. Yes, the NEC can sense and respond to the better cable. Don't be fooled. There is room for improvement. It is a bit scary. I would not have believed it had I not seen it.

Well, I had Eliab Alvarez from Avical come to ISF my XR5 today and I have to say I am EXTREMELY pleased!

Eliab walked me through every step of the calibration and explained to me how everything worked. It is amazing how much calculation goes into getting each of the color values accurate. He was showing me the exact x and y axis values that need to be obtained in order to get the correct settings (I was truly humbled in my knowledge :) )

He first showed me the readings with the panel using my both my settings and CPCAT's. And for how good those settings look, it was amazing how far off we were according to accurate color temp, etc. For instance with mine and CPCAT's we are around 8400K, whereas we all know the standard is 6500K. Green and Red were also pretty far off, but Green was the most out of wack. Blue was pretty much dead on already.

Long story short (cause I don't have much time, but may post more when I get the chance), colors, skin tones and shadow detail is much improved. I put on SW EP III that I recorded off HBO HD since I was used to watching it recently (my son has to see it everynight before bed :) ) and I was just floored at the difference. The colors were much more realistic and I saw details in shadows like never before. For instance, in the elevator shafts towards the beginning, I could see every shaft and wall crevice like I never could before.

I know someone else had posted a bad experience in the settings thread with an ISF calibration, so I wanted to share mine as well. I think that person said his values were close to what was already posted, but I can tell you that mine were much different, especially the individual bias and gain settings (which ultimately helped to smooth the gray scale.

For anyone thinking about ISF, I highly recommend it. I would just make sure you get someone who knows what they are doing. Eliab was phenomenal. He spent 4 hours here today and explained every single detail and adjustment he made along with the corresponding effect it would have on the picture. I would highly recommend him to anyone thinking about it.

In summary, ISF'd 50XR5 now equals BLISS!


Sounds like that was money well spent. I know that we aren't supposed to talk about prices, but so that I don't get taken, how much should I expect to pay for professional calibration? I would imagine about $250. Also, what are the meanings of "ISF" and "CPCAT"?
Thank you.

Well, I had Eliab Alvarez from Avical come to ISF my XR5 today and I have to say I am EXTREMELY pleased!

... Lots of really good stuff


Tony,
That is really great but also a huge settings tease....
Can you please post your Post ISF settings (I would love to see the Normal User and Service Menu Settings), if you think that is an ethical thing to do. I know they may or may not work the same for my setup, but the normal User Accessable setting would be verrry interesting. Thanks.

Also what area of the country is Eliab in?

In summary, ISF'd 50XR5 now equals BLISS!

Sounds great. So with the smoother grayscale I assume that false contouring artifacts would be significantly less? I am still jumping between the 50PHD8UK and the XR5 (even though I know I would love either I'm sure). It's just the grayscale ramps and IR (that I think I could learn to live with) that are holding me back from the XR5 at this point.

I would also like to know where Eliab is located?

I found the answer to my question: "I’ve been performing ISF calibrations since February, 1997 and on a full-time basis since January, 2001. I principally service the New York tri-State areas, but have done and continue to do extensive touring throughout the United States having performed over 100 tours to date."

Edit: How many hours are recommended before getting an ISF calibration done? Would as little as 120-150 be ok or do you have to wait longer?

I answered this question too by searching, lol. I guess 200 hours is recommended and 100 hours is ok. I'll leave this and my stupid questions here just so other people won't have to search threads for it, heh.

What specific entertainment stand are you guys using for the 50XR5? I'm about to order the NEC but need an entertainment stand to go with it. I used the measurements of the TV from the NEC installation guide to cut out a piece of paper with the same dimensions so i coudl figure out how high of a stand I needed.

At my viewing distance (9 feet), I need a stand about 22" high (I'm not wallmounting it). But I'd probably be okay with anything 21.5" to 23.5".

I was absolutely in love with the BDI stands, but reality set in and I smacked myself for thinking I would we able to spend $1500 on an entertainment unit. I loved the fact that is has a hidden center channel compartment.

If I get something that is sub-$1000, i can use the extra money on ISF calibration :)

What stands are you guys (and gals) using?

Bobby -

If you like the modern styling of the BDI stuff, you may like this one. It also has room for a center speaker.

http://www.racksandstands.com/Bello-AVSC-2512-3BB0111.html

http://www.racksandstands.com/ has a wide selection of other consoles too.

Cheers,

- Tim

Bobby -

If you like the modern styling of the BDI stuff, you may like this one. It also has room for a center speaker.

http://www.racksandstands.com/Bello-AVSC-2512-3BB0111.html

http://www.racksandstands.com/ has a wide selection of other consoles too.

Cheers,

- Tim

Tim, thanks for the pointer. Great stand at a fraction of the cost of the BDI.

I wanted something not as wide as 63" actually and looking for something more in the 55-60" range if possible. Not sure if that's realistic though, given that I also want space for center channel below the TV for a cleaner look.

Alternatively, I could set the TV as far back on the tabletop as possible, and put the center channel in front.

I noticed that this Bello unit says it has "adjustable legs". Another thing is that this stand is a touch short at 21" and I wanted something 22.5" or higher. Do the legs adjust an inch or more?

^^^While that particular console may not quite fit your needs, there are 205 "plasma" stands on the www.racksandstands.com site. Hopefully there is another on there that closer matches the dimensions you're looking for. I think the hunt is half the fun sometimes.

Good luck!

BOSS10L,
Thanks for the response. Just one question on what you posted about IR. You mentioned that if its a completely blank screen, or your up close straining, you see IR. Is that only during the few minutes before it goes away, or is that a permanent effect due to the gaming?

Thanks again for your reply, great info there.

Dustin


**UPDATE**

Okay, I gave the XR5A a tough, inadvertent, unplanned test last night, and it has passed with flying colors. I got home from work last night at about 10pm, and popped in Saving Private Ryan right about 11pm. I fell asleep on the couch with probably an hour left to go in the movie, and when my wife woke me up at 7am this morning, the menu (which has a lot of static images) had been playing for probably 6-7 hours. I was a hair nervous, and switched the receiver over to DirecTV. True to form, within 5 minutes, all traces of IR was completely gone.

:cool:

Which stand is best for this NEC unit? A few online retailers that sell the NEC recommended ths Premier mount (http://www.premiermounts.com/product.asp?PartId=1252&ProductId=4969) which is much cheaper than the NEC stand.

The neat thing is that it's height adjustable so you can get optimal viewing height.

Jsut got off the phone with a few of the forums sponsors looking for best pricing on this thing, and wow, they are really slagging each other :)

They keep trying to claim that if the other sponsors have better pricing or show pricing on the web, it's because they aren't authorized resellers :)

However a simple search on NEC's authorized reseller search, shows all of them being authorized!

http://www.necvsd.com/pxauth/authorize_lookup.php?host=www.beyondplasma.com

http://www.necvsd.com/pxauth/authorize_lookup.php?host=www.plasmaconcepts.com

http://www.necvsd.com/pxauth/authorize_lookup.php?host=www.tvauthority.com

http://www.necvsd.com/pxauth/authorize_lookup.php?host=www.clevelandplasma.com

Hello,

Has anyone mated their NEC 50XR5 with a DVDO iScan VP30 at 1080p? Or better yet has anyone mated it with a Anthem AVM-50 at 1080p? What success have you had with PQ?

Scott

So I'm a bit confused about something. Does the 50XR5 not support 1080p60 via HDMI? It seems quite misleading to say it support 1080p but not via HDMI.

So I'm a bit confused about something. Does the 50XR5 not support 1080p60 via HDMI? It seems quite misleading to say it support 1080p but not via HDMI.
XM5 - supports 1080p 24/50/60 via DVI

XR5 - 1080p via component - only 1080i via HDMI

So neither support 1080p60 via HDMI? Does anyone know of a 50 inch plasama that does support 1080p60 via HDMI?

So neither support 1080p60 via HDMI? Does anyone know of a 50 inch plasama that does support 1080p60 via HDMI?

The new xx70 series Pioneers do, but they can't natively display it.

Tony,
That is really great but also a huge settings tease....
Can you please post your Post ISF settings (I would love to see the Normal User and Service Menu Settings), if you think that is an ethical thing to do. I know they may or may not work the same for my setup, but the normal User Accessable setting would be verrry interesting. Thanks.

Also what area of the country is Eliab in?

Sorry, bvader, but I respect Eliab's work to much to go posting them all over a forum like this....sorry! Eliab is located in NJ, but I think he does tours around the country during parts of the year.

Sounds like that was money well spent. I know that we aren't supposed to talk about prices, but so that I don't get taken, how much should I expect to pay for professional calibration? I would imagine about $250. Also, what are the meanings of "ISF" and "CPCAT"?
Thank you.

Yes, I am pleased with the results. I wasn't sure if I was going to feel it would be worth it at first. ISF is Imaging Science Foundation (the organization I believe that started calibration and for whom professional calibrators become certified). CPCAT is an owner in this thread who has provided many of us with tons of knowledge and his personal settings for the XR5.

The new xx70 series Pioneers do, but they can't natively display it.

I think they also only support 1080p24 ....

After exhaustive research, I've decided that this plasma panel(50XR5) is the panel for me.

I do have a question, however. I noticed that some people prefer to have an upscaling DVD player while others prefer to allow the TV's integrated scaler do the work. Is there a consensus as to which does a superiour job? Is there a noticeable difference between the two? Thanks for the information in advance.

*I read through this thread, if anyone has a link to a specific comparison, I'd love to see it.

The consensus hereabouts is that the NEC's processors are superior to most out there.

Resolution: the setting of 480i&p>720p>1080i&p
We have been banging around these different resolutions, each of us tiring to receive the best DVD PQ from our sets with our own source {different DVD players- with different scaling capabilities-Computer integration-& what ever else that is thrown into the mix}.
My new OPPO 970HD, player can send: 480i&p>720p>1080i out> HDMI. So I was calibrating the display (avia), one-way, –hoping the 720p or 1080i would be best. Then I change the setting to 480i with the DVD player’s Sharpness to high. And now I think {still experimenting} the PQ is better out of 480i than with 720p. My point here is we have lots of room/options here to set the PQ with.


** Also, one other point. RE: TONY 17's ISF Cal.
Even, if Tony17 sent you his exact calibration and you set your xr5 to his setting. I would bet odd$$$, that an ISF calibration of your set would have different results- close but not the same. --- Different sources create different PQ.
Also ambient light source (back light behind displays) creates a different PQ.
My cousin is color blind- I had to set his display once for his wife’s eyes and a different memory setting for his eyes (mostly sports).

So do any of you think that there is a chance that the new Panasonic TH-42PS9UK coming out next month (replaces the TH-42PWD8UK) could have surpassed the now old NEC 42VM5. If not, then why?

Resolution: the setting of 480i&p>720p>1080i&p
We have been banging around these different resolutions, each of us tiring to receive the best DVD PQ from our sets with our own source {different DVD players- with different scaling capabilities-Computer integration-& what ever else that is thrown into the mix}.
My new OPPO 970HD, player can send: 480i&p>720p>1080i out> HDMI. So I was calibrating the display (avia), one-way, –hoping the 720p or 1080i would be best. Then I change the setting to 480i with the DVD player’s Sharpness to high. And now I think {still experimenting} the PQ is better out of 480i than with 720p. My point here is we have lots of room/options here to set the PQ with.



I have been following your posts with interest in both this thread, as well as the Oppo 970 thread.

Based on the information provided by many members over the years, I recently became the owner of a 50XR5A from Plasma Concepts after nearly pulling the trigger on a Panny 50PHD8UK. For others who still haven't taken the plunge, here are my personal observations after only a week:

- I am viewing this panel from approximately 10 feet in a well-lit family room (well-lit being a bad thing, BTW), and this screen is the "right size" for me. The wife and I had been debating screen size for two years for this room, and I cut out cardboard templates to help us visualize. The templates were a little deceiving, since I sized them for the size of the entire monitor, not the size of the actual plasma panel. We were upgrading from a 27" CRT, and initially the size difference was intimidating, but after 1-2 days, the panel size seems just right. We don't feel overwhelmed by the panel size, like we expected to.
- We don't have HD yet. I still have to get Adelphia out to the house, so we are only viewing SD (over S-video) and DVDs (over component) right now. SD quality is very dependent on the channel, which I believe (but don't know for a fact) is dependent on the amount of compression/quality Adelphia applies to each channel. Most news channels are watchable, but not great. Discovery SD seems pretty good, surprisingly. But none are close to HD quality. DVDs are also so-so, but only because of the source, I am sure. I currently have a Panny DMR-ES10 DVD Recorder. It's a good player, but not a great one. The new panel really highlights the flaws in the rest of your video chain. Consequently, I now have to upgrade my other components to match the quality of the NEC. Consequently, I just ordered a new Oppo 970HD player.
- I have this new panel mounted to the wall using a Sanus VMSA tilt/swivel/articulating mount. I'm running power to it via an outlet box I've added behind the panel using a Leviton surge protected outlet, with a run of Romex from an existing baseboard outlet. And I'm hiding the video wires behind the wall using bulk cable wall plates. When I have enough posts, I'll add pics.
- After reading the NEC settings thread, I am breaking in the panel using factory default settings, with brightness turned down a couple of notches only. I have not seen ANY evidence of IR or burn-in, even when we have accidentally left the panel on a DVD menu for a while, or watching SD stations with logos in the corner. We're watching this TV just like the old one, and everything has been great.
- Finally, the panel itself has no dead or stuck pixels, the price and service from Plasma Concepts and their shipping company (BAX Global) was great, and I have no regrets regarding my purchase decision.

If anyone has any questions, I would be happy to help. The people in this forum in general, and this thread in particular, have been a big part of why I feel like I made the best purchase decision possible. Thanks everyone!

So do any of you think that there is a chance that the new Panasonic TH-42PS9UK coming out next month (replaces the TH-42PWD8UK) could have surpassed the now old NEC 42VM5. If not, then why?

Any speculation along these lines would be just that - speculation.

I think it's best to wait and see the 9th Gen Commercial Panasonics before making any assumptions.

i'm picking up my 50xr5 tonight from the shipping station.
i want to open the box and verify that the glass is not cracked before taking delivery.

my questions are:
1: what the best way to open the box
2: is the box easy to put back on for my ride home
3: will it fit into my suv (nissan pathfinder)?

i'm picking up my 50xr5 tonight from the shipping station.
i want to open the box and verify that the glass is not cracked before taking delivery.

my questions are:
1: what the best way to open the box
2: is the box easy to put back on for my ride home
3: will it fit into my suv (nissan pathfinder)?

1. Assuming the box is like the 61", it's a "two-piece" box that has clips holding the top part onto the base. You release the clips and lift the top off.

2. Bring a friend. It's a two person job.

3. Might be tight in a pathfinder. I'd double check the dimensions of the box / cargo area.

1. Assuming the box is like the 61", it's a "two-piece" box that has clips holding the top part onto the base. You release the clips and lift the top off.

2. Bring a friend. It's a two person job.

3. Might be tight in a pathfinder. I'd double check the dimensions of the box / cargo area.


how do i find the dimensions of the box?

i'm picking up my 50xr5 tonight from the shipping station.
i want to open the box and verify that the glass is not cracked before taking delivery.

my questions are:
1: what the best way to open the box
2: is the box easy to put back on for my ride home
3: will it fit into my suv (nissan pathfinder)?

1: The outside of the box will provide explicit and easy to follow instructions. Basically, you remove four plastic clips around the bottom sides (which can be reused later), open the top, remove some cardboard and polystyrene spacers, and peer inside. At this point, the entire top can also be pulled off.
2: The box, and the other packing pieces, are very easy to reassemble for the ride back home.
3: If you do a search in this thread, I believe that you can find the exact carton dimensions, but it will be close.

In addition, total weight, including the box, is probably around 110 pounds. It's definitely a two-man job (both into the truck, as well as unloading back home). Enjoy!

how do i find the dimensions of the box?
Ask the people you bought if from, that is what customer service is supposed to be all about !!

Ask someone who knows............ 54 long, 35 high, and 16 wide :)

Just ordered my 50XR5 and I just have to say I've received the best customer service bar none in any electronics purchase. Big thumbs up to Chris @ Cleveland Plasma!

Just ordered my 50XR5 and I just have to say I've received the best customer service bar none in any electronics purchase. Big thumbs up to Chris @ Cleveland Plasma!

Chris, do you deliver in Australia?? ;)

^^^^^Actually yes. Anywere in the world in some cases. Warranty issues are something I would recommend talking with the manufacturer about before you purchase. Also look into duties, brokerage fees, taxes , ect. ect. because I do nothing with these fees and sometimes they BITE.

Any idea when the new 1080P models will come out? I'm holding out for a new 60+ size panel.

Thanks, Mike

I have been reading this thread for the last 3 months. When I originally stumbled upon the AVS site I was primarily considering the 1140's and 5060's. Thanks to some fantastic help from Chris at Cleveland Plasma, I have for the last 4 days been enjoying the NBA finals and WC soccer via a glorious new panel that I, begrudgingly, purchased sight unseen. A very big thanks to each of you guys and gals for posting your reactions/thoughts regarding the monitor - I couldn't be happier with my purchase and I am quite positive that I wouldn't be here without your reviews. CPCAT, I just implemented your settings and I'm not sure broadcast images could look much better. Short story long, I am very happy to be a new XR5 owner. GO MAVS!

Just pulled the trigger on a 50XR5 myself today.....Chris at Cleveland Plasma is great to deal with.....will be enjoying this panel very soon.....this thread has been very helpful with my decision......Thanks All

Any idea when the new 1080P models will come out? I'm holding out for a new 60+ size panel.

Thanks, Mike
do you mean 1080p native panel resolution or capable of accepting 1080p signals?

the current XM5 accepts 1080p signals via the DVI input.

1080p native, may take a while longer to arrive and will probably be very expensive to begin with ....

I'm curious too. We hear all about the Pioneer PRO 50" coming out in July that will be 1080P native for 10,000 retail, but nothing from NEC. The NEC's release their new lines in Dec which is fast approaching so why no info on their new line.

I posted this in the settings forum a few days ago, but haven't received a response... Can someone shed some light for me??!

--------------------------------------------

I have officially adopted Cpcat+LisaM BRIGHT Settings on my XM5. They really bring out the black - and glossy too (in a good way)! Any other settings I used left the impression that the panel looked "washed out"...

My XBOX 360 is connected via component and my SAT receiver is connected via an HDMI->DVI cable (DVI Level is set properly on the panel)

Problem is - I find with both sources that the settings are way too.... (insert proper name here). The black is PERFECT, but the color white is almost blinding. It just seems too... "Bright"! I obviously need to tune the panel to decrease the "brightness", but really don't want to lose the pop that these settings are providing...

SO - my question is:
Can I maintain the same image quality (blacks, color tones, etc) by simply lowering BRIGHTNESS ONLY to an acceptable viewing level while leaving all of Cpcat/LisaM's settings intact?? OR do I also have to adjust the contrast, white levels, tones,etc to compensate for the decrease in brightness? (hopefully the answer is yes - otherwise I'm out of my league on this calibration crap - I own DVE but can't figure it out)

THANKS!

SO - my question is:
Can I maintain the same image quality (blacks, color tones, etc) by simply lowering BRIGHTNESS ONLY to an acceptable viewing level while leaving all of Cpcat/LisaM's settings intact?? OR do I also have to adjust the contrast, white levels, tones,etc to compensate for the decrease in brightness? (hopefully the answer is yes - otherwise I'm out of my league on this calibration crap - I own DVE but can't figure it out)

THANKS!

If you are finding that the picture is too bright, you need to lower the contrast, not the brightness. Yes, this is very counter intuitive.

Brightness controls the the black level or the "brightness" of black.

Contrast controls the maximum white level.

You should just need to adjust contrast if you find the set too bright.

I'm curious too. We hear all about the Pioneer PRO 50" coming out in July that will be 1080P native for 10,000 retail, but nothing from NEC. The NEC's release their new lines in Dec which is fast approaching so why no info on their new line.

Bill,

NEC has announced their new plasma's at CEDIA the past few years. If this holds true again, it should be sometime in September at CEDIA when they announce any new panels. But, I agree.....it would be nice to have something sooner...

If you are finding that the picture is too bright, you need to lower the contrast, not the brightness. Yes, this is very counter intuitive.

Brightness controls the the black level or the "brightness" of black.

Contrast controls the maximum white level.

You should just need to adjust contrast if you find the set too bright.

You may also try switching to "Normal". That is what I did.

You may also try switching to "Normal". That is what I did.

True. I actually run mine on normal.

I was giving more general Brightness/Contrast advice.

True. I actually run mine on normal.

I was giving more general Brightness/Contrast advice.


I find that the blacks don't pop as much on Normal as they do on Bright.

So what you're saying is leave the BRIGHTNESS (and all other settings) intact.. and just notch down the CONTRAST.

Correct?

Thanks!

So what you're saying is leave the BRIGHTNESS (and all other settings) intact.. and just notch down the CONTRAST.

Correct?


Correct.

CPCAT- and all, couldn’t sleep last night. So I decided I would really go through the best PQ calibration I could get. Eq: AVIA- -oppo970HD DVD {all player’s setting set to off/neutral}-xr5. HDMI- ambient light, but not 65K. 12 ft distant.
I thought’s were, different resolution settings- 480i-720p-1080i could create different image quality, so I set each memory to different resolution and started AVIA calibrations. Including adv. test Pattern reviews/.
*All internal setting where the same- just; contrast-brightness-sharpness-c/t – where reviewed.
1. M4- cpcat’s- default
2. M5- 720p
3. M6-1080i
4. M1-480i
5. M1- 480i- DVD player - sharpness -set to High

With 1080i&480i- the Brit/sharp ## ‘s where way off from cpcat’s. However, 720p match more closely. Using ROTKing, spider cave scene, they all look OK, though Black/dark scenes looked more detail w/cp’s w/720p and my setting looked a little more wasted out/brighter. {Why would you need the elf lamp if it were that bright inside the cave.}?
Now, the battle scenes- I flipped back and forth M4-5-6, and every time Cpcat’s setting were more detailed-3D effect- clarity color and hue right on – etc. etc…. Also, my source (machine)_ is completely different than his.
Then- tried cpcat’s default with the players-480i-720p-1080i- they were very close- I “think” 720p should be the better setting- one fewer delaceing. But for some reason. I thought 1080i was a little more smother- but it was way late and I need some time to review. Just 2.5 hr of my time, but to put the calibration issues to rest- priceless.
CPCAT- you rule- may thanks
db
CPCAT- if you change any of your settings PM ;^)

I do have a question, however. I noticed that some people prefer to have an upscaling DVD player while others prefer to allow the TV's integrated scaler do the work. Is there a consensus as to which does a superiour job? Is there a noticeable difference between the two? Thanks for the information in advance.



I have the 50XM2 and have tried several resolutions (480P, 720P 1080i). What I found is that 480i looks the best. I tried 2 different DVD players (Tosh S-290 and V-inc D2). 480i bypasses the de-interlacer and scaler of the DVD player. The NEC handles everything better. Give it a try and let us know how goes.

I find that the blacks don't pop as much on Normal as they do on Bright.



I have tested this and it is an illusion. The blacks are the same but look darker on "Bright" because the image is brighter which in essence makes the blacks look darker. Also, you may want to try Gamma 2 in your settings if you like the "Bright" mode. It seems to improve the black level and tones the image down a little and produces dark, rich colors. Give this a try for a week and I feel you will be satisfied.

My NEC 50XR5 is getting delivered tommorow (friday) between 2-4pm. Woohoo!

i just received my tv and i noticed i have 4 very noticable dead pixels.
is there anything that can be done about that?

i just received my tv and i noticed i have 4 very noticable dead pixels.
is there anything that can be done about that?

Are all of the sub-pixels dead? If yes, that should be covered by NEC's warranty.

Best to contact your dealer.

i just received my tv and i noticed i have 4 very noticable dead pixels.
is there anything that can be done about that?

as jvincent said, contact NEC. They replaced my first VR5 for one flashing pixel. They are pretty good to deal with. Let us know what they tell you.

Are all of the sub-pixels dead? If yes, that should be covered by NEC's warranty.

Best to contact your dealer.

i bought it from chris at cleveland plasma. i spoke with him already and will let you guys know the outcome.

thanks for the advice.




nk

Received my TV today from Cleveland plasma.. i ordered on monday and it's already here. Wow!

I setup my new stand, connected all my components then realized my NEC stand didn't arrive. ARGH! Now i have the TV still sitting in the box in my living room. sigh.

Received my TV today from Cleveland plasma.. i ordered on monday and it's already here. Wow!

I setup my new stand, connected all my components then realized my NEC stand didn't arrive. ARGH! Now i have the TV still sitting in the box in my living room. sigh.

I had the opposite problem, a stand and no TV! Hope yours gets there quick before you go crazy!

UPS tracking says it's coming monday! Thankfully I'm out of town this weekend anyways so not missing it.

It's funny though, I have my complete home theatre setup ready but no TV :)

I had mine sitting in the bottom portion of the shipping container for about 2 weeks waiting for my NEC desk stand. (They look like big gray sneakers! LOL) It didn't look pretty, but there was no way I was going to let it sit there off. I secured the panel by running a support wire from behind the set to the wall.

Is there any way using the remote (or even better -the Harmony 880) to change the modes (BRIGHT, NORMAL, THEATER1, THEATER2, DEFAULT) without going through the menu system???

Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness, Color Tune and many other settings are available on the Harmony, but not this..

Anyone?

Thanks,

EnR

Is there any way using the remote (or even better -the Harmony 880) to change the modes (BRIGHT, NORMAL, THEATER1, THEATER2, DEFAULT) without going through the menu system???

Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness, Color Tune and many other settings are available on the Harmony, but not this..

Anyone?

Thanks,

EnR

Good question. I can tell you that if anyone can answer this it is NEC support. They are able to give you the specific hex codes if it is actually a discrete code. You may wanna give them a call. If not, try emailing Harmony, they're pretty good too.

You might also want to poke around here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=mx700

Hey folks - I've been playing with my 42XR4 ever since I got it, and I thought it was just about time to post my settings. There's hardly any out there for the 42", so I thought I'd add mine!

Relevant Equipment: 42XR4 Plasma, Pioneer Elite DV-45A DVD Player, Motorola 6412 s. III HD Cable Box.

These settings were obtained using DVE for my DVDs, and then I transposed the Color Temperature and Color Tune settings from that to my Cable HD input, then adjusted contrast and brightness by eye.

Please note these settings were obtained in a dim room, which I find the most practical for good viewing. You may have to adjust contrast and brightness based on the environment you view your set in.

Here they are - please give feedback - I encourage you to try these on your set!

HD CABLE SETTINGS
Setup Menu
HDMI Setup: High

Picture Menu
Contrast: 42
Brightness: 39
Sharpness: 0
Color: 26
Tint: 31
NR: NR-1
Color Temp: Middle-Low
Cinema Mode: On
Picture Mode: Normal
Gamma: 2.2
Setup Level: 0%

Color Temperature Adjustment (Highlight Color Temp and Press "Enter")
Gain Red: 41
Gain Green: 41
Gain Blue: 42
Bias Red: 36
Bias Green: 42
Bias Blue: 41

Color Tune Menu
Red: 30
Green: 32
Blue: 32
Yellow: 32
Magenta: 32
Cyan: 30

DVD Settings to follow...

DVD INPUT SETTINGS

Picture Menu
Contrast: 36
Brightness: 37
Sharpness: 0
Color: 28
Tint: 32
NR: NR-1
Color Temp: Middle-Low
Cinema Mode: On
Picture Mode: Theater 1
Gamma: 2.3
Setup Level: 3.75%

Color Temperature Adjustment (Highlight Color Temp and Press "Enter")
Gain Red: 41
Gain Green: 41
Gain Blue: 42
Bias Red: 36
Bias Green: 42
Bias Blue: 41

Color Tune Menu
Red: 30
Green: 32
Blue: 32
Yellow: 32
Magenta: 32
Cyan: 30

Please try these if you'd like, and send feedback either on the thread or through PM. Hope you like them!

Congrats tdavis on your NEC. It's nice to know there are two of us now in KY. :)
I bet you may find that as your panel ages you'll end up edging up contrast some and dropping brightness as well. I'm at 1000 hours now and both values have ended up at nearly the factory defaults. I guess someone at NEC actually knows what they are doing.

Tony17 I envy you on the ISF cal. I'm considering it, but as you've said it has to be by someone who knows their sh*t. Sounds like you have found one of those someones.

Hi all, have had my 42XR4 for a few months now and love it but just in the past couple days have had a recurring issue. Ocassionally when I turn the TV on or change channels all I get is static. I get the momentary black screen then it goes to a full screen of static. Sometimes the picture will come back in a few seconds, other times not at all. It seems to be an issue with the TV because my receiver never loses the audio signal from the cable box and turning the cable box off and on has no effect. The only thing that fixes it is to turn the TV off and then back on. So far, that has worked every time. Any one else experienced this?

Thanks,
Jon

Sounds like it could be an HDMI handshaking problem. Is that how you are connected? /steve

My 42XR4 will do something like that when I switch to the HDMI input.

If I'm watching through Component (which I have connected also, for comparison), and then switch to HDMI, the image appears, then blacks out, then reappears a few seconds later. It's part of the whole HDMI handshake process. I have audio throughout as well.

Hi all, have had my 42XR4 for a few months now and love it but just in the past couple days have had a recurring issue. Ocassionally when I turn the TV on or change channels all I get is static. I get the momentary black screen then it goes to a full screen of static. Sometimes the picture will come back in a few seconds, other times not at all. It seems to be an issue with the TV because my receiver never loses the audio signal from the cable box and turning the cable box off and on has no effect. The only thing that fixes it is to turn the TV off and then back on. So far, that has worked every time. Any one else experienced this?

Thanks,
Jon
Welcome to the world of HDCP. I am really considering not using HDMI( using component instead) on some installations as our customers get easily frustrated when the picture goes away. Hard reboots are the only solution. It is not just NEC. We have similar,but different problems with Sony etc. It is exaggerated when switching sources with an outboard device like Lumagen or Gefen.
For enthusiasts like us,it is fairly easy to live with,but on highly automated systems it is difficult to deal with .

Hi all, have had my 42XR4 for a few months now and love it but just in the past couple days have had a recurring issue. Ocassionally when I turn the TV on or change channels all I get is static. I get the momentary black screen then it goes to a full screen of static. Sometimes the picture will come back in a few seconds, other times not at all. It seems to be an issue with the TV because my receiver never loses the audio signal from the cable box and turning the cable box off and on has no effect. The only thing that fixes it is to turn the TV off and then back on. So far, that has worked every time. Any one else experienced this?

Thanks,
Jon
Don't worry your not alone...HDMI & HDCP and STB's

read these and follow thread down the page

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7763149&&#post7763149

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7763908&&#post7763908

Thanks all for the quick responses. I'm using the SA8300HD box through TW with HDMI to the NEC and digital audio out to my receiver. It just seemed weird to me that turning the tv off and on seems to be the only fix. The (temporary) solution is to do a hard reboot to the box and TV then? Also, how do I check if the firmware in my STB has been updated lately? Seems weird this would suddenly start occurring.

Thanks all for the quick responses. I'm using the SA8300HD box through TW with HDMI to the NEC and digital audio out to my receiver. It just seemed weird to me that turning the tv off and on seems to be the only fix. The (temporary) solution is to do a hard reboot to the box and TV then? Also, how do I check if the firmware in my STB has been updated lately? Seems weird this would suddenly start occurring.
You need to get used to the fact that for a while... these things are going to happen, that or go to component... my experience it will vary... I am in a stable mode right now.... but for how long ... who knows ...

Also it was be come very clear to me the the order and patience of turning on the equipment will affect your success rate....
My current sequence
NEC on let settle (make HDCP available)
Cable on let settle
Audio On let Settle...

Flipping between HDMI inputs can also cause problems... but to me... its all the price of addmission, I have chosen to not let it bother me much.

SA83000 there are two main threads in the depending on whether you hava PASSPORT or SARA firmware
PASSPORT
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804

SARA
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859

Diag for Passport
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6866450&highlight=DIAG#post6866450

Also leave the optical digital out to HDMI... unless you are watching a quality DD5.1 show (HBO, CSI, The Closer etc)... and then switch it back.... ahhh you laugh... but so did everyone else ... but now they ask my advice....;)
Good Luck!

Thread ##3226 and 3445 ,
I have not noticed this issue on my xr5>hdmi>Comcast 6412 III at all. But some times the pictures stops/stutters/pixal freezes-1 sec. ANd it is the cable box issue- my friend who has the same service two blocks aways-same box w/ LCD Tv, same issue. Swapped box and it's gone. just haven't had time to drive across town, db

Thread ##3226 and 3445 ,
I have not noticed this issue on my xr5>hdmi>Comcast 6412 III at all. But some times the pictures stops/stutters/pixal freezes-1 sec. ANd it is the cable box issue- my friend who has the same service two blocks aways-same box w/ LCD Tv, same issue. Swapped box and it's gone. just haven't had time to drive across town, db
The particular Blanking issues are Very SA83000 related... I am not a comcast expert... but a quick look at their threads will most likely say not all is perfect there either. Basically the STB, FW and Panels... are probably not implmenting the HDCP the same/to spec.. along with all the other FW/HW related issues... then add in the bandwidth issues cable operators are facing... plus plain ole cable issues... sometimes I am amazed it all works as well as it does... guess I have low expectations... or maybe I am a realist... being I am a SW/EE eng...
But in the end... I have Great PQ :D

For instance DVR'd SWEP III from HBO HD... .prettyy darned amazing! even running on the 2.35:1 wide mode.

Another solution which I have come across, is to set your SA8300HD to either never shut off or to automatically come on at a certain time each day (early morning). This has definitely seemed to solve any problems I had. Give it a shot

Just pulled the trigger on a 50XR5 myself today.....Chris at Cleveland Plasma is great to deal with.....will be enjoying this panel very soon.....this thread has been very helpful with my decision......Thanks All

DITTO! Well, I ordered mine about a month ago, got it in a lil less than a week (display and stand), but FINALLY just got back into town after traveling for work and have set everything up. It's great!!!

Many thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma, and all my fellow forum junkies :p for helping me with this purchase/decision.

Now to adjust all the settings....can't wait!!! :D

Just got my stand yesterday and hooked everything up.. What a gorgeous TV! I'll take some pics of my setup soon and post them up.

I let it run yesterday all night on MTV in zoom mode to start the break in process. It's great because MTV has extremely few static logos on the screen.

I noticed that cpcat's settings are referred to all the time in this thread, but I can't find them anywhere.. can someone give me a link?

There is quite a jump from VGA to DVI (when using an HTPC as the source), that I have verified myself. I have never seen HMDI in action, but I've been told that yes, the jump is great.


Boss, are you sure about this? I connected up my HTPC via DVI and VGA yesterday and VGA was great on my media center 2005 machine.

To top it off, the VGA connection makes setup so freakin simple.

Just got my stand yesterday and hooked everything up.. What a gorgeous TV! I'll take some pics of my setup soon and post them up.

I let it run yesterday all night on MTV in zoom mode to start the break in process. It's great because MTV has extremely few static logos on the screen.

I noticed that cpcat's settings are referred to all the time in this thread, but I can't find them anywhere.. can someone give me a link?

Congrats! 42 or 50?

Hey don't foget to give the stand some love.... sorry its just that basically all the other Panels stands worship at the feet of the NEC stand... whoaaaa thats deep man

Its a truely aesthetically pleasing panel... not to mention the PQ...

Heres the Setting thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7360508#post7360508

There are orginal settings and some revised ones....later in the thread.

Hi everyone. Like many others, I'm a long time lurker who has finally pulled the trigger. I now have my PX50XR5A from Plasma Concepts (great company!) hooked up to a Motorola DCT6200 cable box (Adelphia), Oppo 970HD DVD player (awesome!), Yamaha YSP-800 Virtual Surround Sound Speaker and an old Tivo Series 2. I'm using cables from Blue Jeans cables all-around (great value and quality).

Now that the panel is up to about 150 hours, I'm about to jump into the calibration ring with my new Avia DVD. But to jump start the process, I'm wondering if any of you could help. These are basic settings to my set-up that I would like to set and forget. And yes, I know the usual advice of doing what looks best to me. But these settings are when things look the same to me, and I want to use the setting that's "safe".:

1. Motorola DCT6200 cable box to NEC via DVI/HDMI - There are only three user settings, but they're important: Screen type (16:9), HD output, and 4:3 override. I know that I should output either 720p or 1080i for HD, but I can't see a difference. Over DVI/HDMI, is there a consensus opinion on 720p vs. 1080i? For the 4:3 override, the options are 480i or 480p. Again, I can't tell a difference, so is there is consensus regarding whether the cable box or the NEC has the better de-interlacer?

2. Oppo 970HD to NEC via HDMI - I'm currently using the CPCat settings for DVD playback (thanks!!), and will see if they change much when I do my own calibration, but again, my question is what signal should I be feeding the NEC? I bought the 970HD to have the ability to feed 480i over HDMI, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the de-interlacer in the NEC is better. If the Oppo is better, I'm happy to feed the NEC 480p. Furthermore, has anyone tested the upconverting/scaling of the Oppo compared to the NEC? I know that the common wisdom says that the MTK scaler in the Oppo is "good", and that the one used in the NEC is thought to be "very good", but I haven't seen anyone discuss the various permutations you can have between these two specific devices, and a recommendation on which way to go.

For me, these settings are on the margin, since to my eye, I can't really see a difference when flipping back and forth amongst the combinations above. But if there is a combination that might yield a higher quality calibration, or one that is indeed superior, but I'm not yet sophisticated enough to pick-up on it yet, I would really appreciate your folks' guidance. Thanks!!

so is there is consensus regarding whether the cable box or the NEC has the better de-interlacer?


In following this thread, it seems that the consensus is that the NEC built-in de-interlacer is superior to any STB, so you shoudl set it to 480i and let the TV do the scaling.

Sakaike,

The NEC has excellent processing and as far as your cable box goes ideally you'd feed the panel native signal resolution. In other words, if watching ABC HD, feed 720p, for CBS HD feed 1080i and so on. If you don't have a "native" or "passthru" mode on the STB just try various resolutions and see which you like best.

As far as the Oppo, that's a tough one. The NEC 480i processing is very good and bests my other two hdtv's by a good margin. I'm sure the Oppo does an excellent job of deinterlacing to 480p as well though. Again, you may just have to try both and decide. The Silicon Optix DVD Benchmark disc is available direct on-line at http://www.hqv.com/benchmark.cfm if you want to test both. It would make for a great comparison.

Overall, 480i scored slightly lower for me on the Benchmark disk than 480p,720p, and 1080i from my Toshiba HD-A1. 480i tests the display while the other resolutions all require deinterlacing by the player.

As far as the Oppo, that's a tough one. The NEC 480i processing is very good and bests my other two hdtv's by a good margin. I'm sure the Oppo does an excellent job of deinterlacing to 480p as well though. Again, you may just have to try both and decide. The Silicon Optix DVD Benchmark disc is available direct on-line at http://www.hqv.com/benchmark.cfm if you want to test both. It would make for a great comparison.


Thanks for referring me to that disk. I just placed my order.

I look forward to testing this out and reporting my results here for others to learn from. Thanks again.

[...]As far as the Oppo, that's a tough one. The NEC 480i processing is very good and bests my other two hdtv's by a good margin. I'm sure the Oppo does an excellent job of deinterlacing to 480p as well though. Again, you may just have to try both and decide.[...]

Definitely try both. My Fujitsu panel has one of the best built-in processors out there (AVM II), but the Oppo 970HD de-interlacer does a better job. I send 480p to my panel, which allows me to take advantage of the player's de-interlacer and my 768p panel's superior scaler.

As you can see from my posts over on the Oppo 970HD thread, I'm getting picture quality from this player comparable to HBO HD delivered by DirecTV. Not quite as good as uncompressed broadcast over the air HD, but darned close.

/steve

Just thought I'd check in on my burn-in issue. As I left you, I had some burn-in of the ESPN logo despite watching only 30-60 minutes, with brightness and contrast well below factory settings, and after breaking in the set for over 100 hours. This is obviously highly irregular. I called NEC, and they agreed that it sounded irregular, but said that they obviously couldn't do anything until a service tech observed the problem.

So I got an NEC authorized repairman to come check it out. I didn't tell him what the problem was, but rather just turned on the TV and set the screen to white. He immediately noticed the burn-in ("ESPN!"), yet claimed that this was "normal" and that I must "work with photographs or movies" since I was able to see it. (Nevermind that he noticed it right away.)

I pressed him on the idea that this was "normal" -- I had, after all, broken in the set, turned contrast and brightness down, and hadn't even watched ESPN for very long at all. He commented that my knowledge of best practices was "very well informed." I thanked him but calmly explained that in the process of becoming very well informed, I communicated with many many NEC/XR owners and none had experienced any permanent burn-in from this viewing pattern (settings, break-in, length of time logo was on screen). He insisted that it was just a matter of panel variability, and that "everyone has some burn-in," but they just don't normally notice it. That raised an eyebrow.

(And just to be clear, while I question some of his information, this guy was very pleasant and professional.)

Anyway, I got back in contact with NEC, who had the email and pictures from the service guy on file. The rep I spoke with documented my problem but told me that he could not make any sort of decision on how to proceed -- that would be up to the regional service manager. This was on Friday, and I was told I would hear within a business day or two. Turns out the guy is in training, so I should hear later this week.

Just wanted to post an update....

PS - The burn-in has gotten no-better or worse, and I have not experienced any additional burn-in. I do get some normal image retention which goes away after a few minutes, but nothing permanent.

Just to add my own experience on IR and burn-in to the user database: I have about 150 hours on my 50XR5A. I haven't changed any of my default settings during this time, inclulding brightness and contrast. I have watched all types of programming in all types of modes, including pillar-boxed 4:3 and letterboxed widescreen, SD HD, and DVD, news tickers, logos and the rest. I occasionally get some IR from the bars, top and bottom, side to side, but they go away 100% after about 5-10 seconds of switching content. I have had no IR or burn-in at all from logos, ticker bars, etc., and I've been looking for them. I also have zero dead or stuck pixels on my panel.

I can buy the argument of panel variability as it pertains to the amount of work and time it might take to eliminate IR, but burn-in caused in the way you originally described a while back isn't normal, and I hope you eventually prevail.

Keep us posted and best of luck.

Recieved my 50XR5 today....All I have to say is WOW!....Wonderful picture, simplistic set up menus with alot of control and it looks so darn good!

Thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma for a super job at delivering the goods.....a great buying experience all around.

Hi again all, still in research mode, but have yet another question....

Could anyone comment on the quality of the 61" R4 set? It is a generation behind the R5's, but is there much of a difference? Do you still get the same great picture quality, and processor, or is it a step behind? Is the R4 generation more succeptible to IR than the R5 generation?

Also, when is the NEC61xR5 due? :)


Thanks, as always,
Dustin

I have the 61".

From what I can gather the 61XR4 and 50XR5 are actually the same generation of technology. The 42" is the newer tech with the "bonded colour filter".

Image quality on the 61" is outstanding. I'm not sure how many hours I have on mine now (lots I'm sure) and it gets a varied mix of HDTV, 4:3 SD with grey bars, letterboxed DVDs, Xbox 360 and from what the 50" owners have said I don't think it's any more susceptible to IR.

Only very rarely do even notice IR, usually when moving from a 4:3 HD upconvert with black bars to full HD, and even then it's gone in seconds. I guess technically this is lack of IR since the black bars aren't active.

The 4 and 5 at the end of the model # represents the qeneration of that unit size. Hence the current 50" is the 5th generation in that size. The 61 inch has had only 4 generations ie. it's 1st gen came out the same time as the 2nd gen of the 50". But the technology is the same, both being the latest and greatest;). The next models will propably get released in Nov or Dec. Hope I didn't muddy the waters even more!

But the technology is the same, both being the latest and greatest;).
Almost. jvincent was correct. The 42XR4 is actually a generation ahead (newer glass technology) than both the 50 and 61.
The next models will propably get released in Nov or Dec. Hope I didn't muddy the waters even more!
You may not have, but if not, I just did! ;)

Thanks guys,

I have been having a tough time narrowing it down, but I think I am going to end up with one of the 3 following, (in no particular order):
-Panasonic 58"600U
-NEC61XR4
-NEC50XR5

The panny 58 inch is very appealing due to size, but the first, and only, user report I have heard so far is that the SD content on it leaves a lot to be desired. Also concerned that panny may have more clay face issues than the NEC's. NEC does have a better processor, which will help with standard analog/digital content, so that is appealing as well........just so many DECISIONS! :eek:

Thanks again,
Dustin

yobob,
You are right, the glass in the 42 is the better Pioneer glass (I htink mainly it's toted as having fewer reflection problems). But as far as NEC is concerned the 5th model cycle of the 50" is the same model cycle of the 61". I'm hoping news starts leaking out by the end of summer about the next generations spec's.

yobob,
You are right, the glass in the 42 is the better Pioneer glass (I think mainly it's toted as having fewer reflection problems). But as far as NEC is concerned the 5th model cycle of the 50" is the same model cycle of the 61". I'm hoping news starts leaking out by the end of summer about the next generations spec's.

Thanks guys,

I have been having a tough time narrowing it down, but I think I am going to end up with one of the 3 following, (in no particular order):
-Panasonic 58"600U
-NEC61XR4
-NEC50XR5

The panny 58 inch is very appealing due to size, but the first, and only, user report I have heard so far is that the SD content on it leaves a lot to be desired. Also concerned that panny may have more clay face issues than the NEC's. NEC does have a better processor, which will help with standard analog/digital content, so that is appealing as well........just so many DECISIONS! :eek:

Thanks again,
Dustin

You need to add the Pio 6070 and 5070 to your list. The 6070 will share heritage with the upcoming NEC 60XR5 and the 5070 should do the same with the NEC 50XR6.

The reason that I don't have any Pioneers on the list is because of fears of IR. I have been seeing a lot of reports about how Pioneers are more succeptible to IR, which concerns me, (I plan on gaming on the plasma as well, everything I have seen says panny/NEC are much more resistant to IR from gaming).

Are the new Pioneers less succeptible to IR/BI compared to the previous generations?

Dustin

I would suspect at this point that Pio/NEC will be equivalent in that regard.

The Pio 6070 is a new panel and the 60XR5 will presumably be based on the same glass.

The Pio 5070 is based on the same glass as the 50XR5 but with added Pio modification.

Question - has anyone taken off the handles from the back of this set?....I have mine on a NEC stand (BTW fantastic) and notice the handles from a oplique view....If I did take off I would certainly store them in safe area.

The reason that I don't have any Pioneers on the list is because of fears of IR. I have been seeing a lot of reports about how Pioneers are more succeptible to IR, which concerns me, (I plan on gaming on the plasma as well, everything I have seen says panny/NEC are much more resistant to IR from gaming).

Are the new Pioneers less succeptible to IR/BI compared to the previous generations?

Dustin

I have a PIO 4350 at my beach home and the kids come down and use the X-box and there is some IR(no IR ever on any other viewing), but it goes away in 5 minutes after their session....the PIO is about 1 year old and was properly broken in.....but I just reicved my NEC 50XR5 and IMO is superior in PQ then the PIO....I can't comment on IR yet on the NEC (breaking in on HD MTV and HD Discovery for 100 hours at low contrast and brightness -Thank You very much forum members)

Pioneer and NEC make great plasmas.

Any reported HDMI handshake issues with Directv HD boxes and the NEC plasma sets?

I have a PIO 4350 at my beach home and the kids come down and use the X-box and there is some IR(no IR ever on any other viewing), but it goes away in 5 minutes after their session....the PIO is about 1 year old and was properly broken in.....but I just reicved my NEC 50XR5 and IMO is superior in PQ then the PIO....I can't comment on IR yet on the NEC (breaking in on HD MTV and HD Discovery for 100 hours at low contrast and brightness -Thank You very much forum members)

Pioneer and NEC make great plasmas.

Let's see. NEC, X-Box, sounds like someone needs an HD-DVD player or HD-DVD drive add-on to me! Funny how Pio fits in to all of this though. I think they need to wise up and come over to the winning team.:)

Let's see. NEC, X-Box, sounds like someone needs an HD-DVD player or HD-DVD drive add-on to me! Funny how Pio fits in to all of this though. I think they need to wise up and come over to the winning team.:)

cpcat, I do have the Tosh HD-DVD and is hook up to the Pioneer(for the time being) and it is wonderful....will be hooking up to the NEC after break in...The NEC will be my true HD and HD-DVD source....let the kids have all the fun with the Pio.(they just love that big screen vs an old 27" Sony Trinatron CRT

Awesome, congrats on the A1. Viva la HD DVD :)

So will one EVER be able to watch a movie with top/side bars or something with a logo and NOT have image retention? I have had my NEC 50XR5 display well over the break in period and still if i watch something with a logo or side/top bars for more than just a few minuntes I get IR. I am too scared to let it go in fear it will burn-in. Will I ever be able to fully enjoy my plasma?

HELP! :-\

So will one EVER be able to watch a movie with top/side bars or something with a logo and NOT have image retention? I have had my NEC 50XR5 display well over the break in period and still if i watch something with a logo or side/top bars for more than just a few minuntes I get IR. I am too scared to let it go in fear it will burn-in. Will I ever be able to fully enjoy my plasma?

HELP! :-\

I watched a lot of world cup soccer and the score thicker is up all the time with the espn logo, yes I see retention for maybe 5 min total, I switch to disovery for maybe 10 min and it's all gone.
Relax my man and enjoy the show :)

So will one EVER be able to watch a movie with top/side bars or something with a logo and NOT have image retention? I have had my NEC 50XR5 display well over the break in period and still if i watch something with a logo or side/top bars for more than just a few minuntes I get IR. I am too scared to let it go in fear it will burn-in. Will I ever be able to fully enjoy my plasma?

HELP! :-\
I fully enjoy my 50 all the time. watch a 3 hours letterbox movie... watching mucho World Cup... alll IR gone with DiscHD in ~ 5min... as cirob said ... relax and enjoy the show...

So will one EVER be able to watch a movie with top/side bars or something with a logo and NOT have image retention? I have had my NEC 50XR5 display well over the break in period and still if i watch something with a logo or side/top bars for more than just a few minuntes I get IR. I am too scared to let it go in fear it will burn-in. Will I ever be able to fully enjoy my plasma?

HELP! :-\

I think the degree of IR any particular person experiences will vary a little based on "panel variability" mentioned by an earlier poster. Personally, I watch all varieties of programming with black bars for hours at a time, and only require a very short period, maybe 30 seconds in a worst case scenario, of alternate programming to erase the IR. And even during this period, the bars are barely noticeable. If your experience is anything like mine, I say don't worry about it, and enjoy the panel to the fullest.

I think the degree of IR any particular person experiences will vary a little based on "panel variability" mentioned by an earlier poster.
I think IR has more to do with "Observer Variability" ;)

Recieved my 50XR5 today....All I have to say is WOW!....Wonderful picture, simplistic set up menus with alot of control and it looks so darn good!

Thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma for a super job at delivering the goods.....a great buying experience all around.
All I can say is Ditto! Ditto for the pq, ditto for the ergonomics, ditto for ClevelandPlasma.

The main reason I bought the NEC is the reports on the pq of the SD content that is, like it or not, 90% of the overall programming on TV a t this time. Man-o-Man did I make the right choice. Chris, I will never doubt you again. My choices were a Panasonic 600U or the NEC XR5. In getting the XR5 I notice better color reproduction in any mode than the Panasonic, and the SD scaling is superb (far better than the Panasonic). I watched the Tennis and the F1 racing in SD and actually enjoyed it. I can't wait to get over the break-in period (I noticed the DishNet logo IR and the vertical bars on the screen, but they went away after a couple of minutes of watching HD) to start enjoying it to the fullest. BTW, I did not change any factory settings yet and it is awesome.

I just wanted to mention a funny experience while mounting the set to the wall. I bought the Omnimount UCL-X (I have a big room and I need to turn the set left and right). I had a Stud finder that could not reliably find the studs, I bought a deep scanner stud but this did not lead to any reliable data either. I gave up and called my handyman who brought his industrial strength stud finder but this led to similar results as the previous 2 attempts. At the end the only way we could find them is by good old fashioned tapping on the wall and listening for echos. It worked from the first time. BTW, the wall had insulation in it and the studs were not exactly 16" apart.

The lesson from the above is trust your finger and your ear. Another lesson I learned is that if you break a bolt while over tightening it to the stud, don't panic, just drill another hole to the side of the sud and insert the bolt sideways at an angle.

I will post some pictures about before and after.

I think IR has more to do with "Observer Variability" ;)
Agree with you 100%!!!

RK

Im experience with IR is the same as Sakaike's.

I hate to sound like a whiner.....but I watched a movie for about 1 hr with bars on top and bottom (all well after the breakin period and with settings still at low brightness, contrast, etc), and it literally took all day for the IR to go away with the screen wiper on. I get the same IR after about 1 minute of watchiong a letterbox feed, however, it then only takes about 30 minutes for it to go away. This till seems way too long for only watching a TV show for 1 minute.


I admit I am picky and notice every little spec of abnormality, but is this normal? Like everyone is advising, I just want to be able to relax and watch the show, but with so much $$$ on the line, it's really hard.


Anyone else having IR for such lengthy amounts of time? Am I crazy paranoid or what?!?

I hate to sound like a whiner.....but I watched a movie for about 1 hr with bars on top and bottom (all well after the breakin period and with settings still at low brightness, contrast, etc), and it literally took all day for the IR to go away with the screen wiper on. I get the same IR after about 1 minute of watchiong a letterbox feed, however, it then only takes about 30 minutes for it to go away. This till seems way too long for only watching a TV show for 1 minute.


I admit I am picky and notice every little spec of abnormality, but is this normal? Like everyone is advising, I just want to be able to relax and watch the show, but with so much $$$ on the line, it's really hard.


Anyone else having IR for such lengthy amounts of time? Am I crazy paranoid or what?!?

As I describe in my post a few items above, your experience does not mirror mine, and if it were happening to me as you describe, I would not consider it normal. I will watch a 2.35:1 movie from beginning to end (with CPCAT's settings), and I might get some IR that lasts for a few seconds. I have a couple of hundred hours on the panel.

The only thing I do different from you is I don't use the screen wiper. I just change channels to a station playing dynamic content that covers the whole screen. 10 seconds later I'm good to go.

Yeh, i too thought just changing the channel would work, but it didn't so I tried the screen wiper, I'm just thankful it went away eventually :-\ Don't know what I'll do next, but I thank you for your input.....wish me luck

Wolfer,

How long have you had the display for? If it was mine, I would definately be calling NEC and seeing if they can get someone out to look at it. Most of what I have read on this thread says the IR typically goes away withing 1-10 minutes...30minutes to a day sounds like something may be going on with the screen, and definately doesn't sound like the normal case I have been reading.

Just my two cents.

Dustin

I recently purchased the Oppo 970HD to go with my recently purchased 50XR5A. I will soon be receiving the HQV Benchmark DVD to determine the best settings between the two units.

However, in the Oppo 970HD thread, an LG owner noted that for his display, the Oppo 971 outperformed the Oppo 970 under almost all circumstances.

Has anyone around here performed a similar comparison? Another related question would be if anyone knows if the 50XR5As are in any way susceptible to the Faroudja macro-blocking phenomenon that sometimes plagues Panny's?

If the answer to this second question is no, I'm starting to think that I should swap my 970 for a 971, and perform my HQV benchmarking against that combo.

Any thoughts? TIA.

...
Another related question would be if anyone knows if the 50XR5As are in any way susceptible to the Faroudja macro-blocking phenomenon that sometimes plagues Panny's?
...

Have been running the 971 and 50XR5A for several months ... no macroblocking as far as I can see...I tried to reproduce MBE using the Monsters Inc test..etc... none as far as I can see.

You should not be surprised that the 971 out performs the 970... at delinterlacing...I think at this point given the NEC electronics you are splitting hairs... or maybe I should say pixels..

Have been running the 971 and 50XR5A for several months ... no macroblocking as far as I can see...I tried to reproduce MBE using the Monsters Inc test..etc... none as far as I can see.

You should not be surprised that the 971 out performs the 970... at delinterlacing...I think at this point given the NEC electronics you are splitting hairs... or maybe I should say pixels..

Thanks for the fast reply. Earlier today I placed an order for the 971. Hope to have it in a day or two (I'm in SoCal). I also expect my HQV Benchmark DVD within the next day or two. I then intend to run both the 970 and 971 through the HQV tests at all resolutions (480i/p, 720p, 1080i), and post the results here.

I'll then return one of the two units next week (probably the 970). I have about one week left on my 30-day window for returning the 970.

Hello fellow Nec'ers, I purchased the 50xr5 back in February from Chris at Cleveland Plasma, and have finally wall mounted this display. So I have the rather handsome not to mention expensive swivel stand that I no longer have a use for. If you are interested in purchasing this stand please PM me. I'm in the Seattle area.

Yes, I looked into it. It's a nice little extra discount for AVS members, but nearly enough of one to get me off the 42" ED vs. HD fence. The price spread between the two is still way to wide for me to justify taking the plunge. When it gets down to the $300-$500 range, then I'm in. That's if I don't lose patience waiting for that day which never seems to come, and just go out and grab an ED Plasma or something like the Westinghouse LCD 42" HD that's gotten to be quite popular given it's great "bang-for-the-buck" value (would really prefer to stay in the plasma camp, but my patience is running out).

i TOO have the Oppo970&{50"xr5}. It would be very interesting to see how much better the PQ can get with different DVD players. The PQ w/ the oppo970HD is absolutely great.
and with the SACD as an add feature -great. It just pushed a HD/BR player into the future- future and only had to pay $167 to get it to my door....
db

[QUOTE=wolfer77]I hate to sound like a whiner.....but I watched a movie for about 1 hr with bars on top and bottom (all well after the breakin period and with settings still at low brightness, contrast, etc), and it literally took all day for the IR to go away with the screen wiper on. I get the same IR after about 1 minute of watchiong a letterbox feed, however, it then only takes about 30 minutes for it to go away. This till seems way too long for only watching a TV show for 1 minute.


Wolfie why not use the zoom or the stadium settings to eliminate the bars also any full screen no logos channel will do the trick no need for the screen whiper.
The discovery hd channels works good for the temp ir, bright programs, try it. :)

i TOO have the Oppo970&{50"xr5}. It would be very interesting to see how much better the PQ can get with different DVD players. The PQ w/ the oppo970HD is absolutely great.
and with the SACD as an add feature -great. It just pushed a HD/BR player into the future- future and only had to pay $167 to get it to my door....
db

As promised, I performed the comparison of the Oppo 970 and 971 with my 50XR5A earlier today. The results have been posted here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7962776&&#post7962776

As promised, I performed the comparison of the Oppo 970 and 971 with my 50XR5A earlier today. The results have been posted here:

I'm listing each configuration tested, followed by the scores for each test in the same order as the list above, with the total at the end.

970 - 480i: 10, 5, 3, 10, 10, 10, 5, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 0, 10 - Total: 78
970 - 480p: 10, 5, 0, 5, 10, 10, 5, 5, 5, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 5, 10, Total - 75
970 - 720p: 10, 5, 0, 5, 10, 5, 5, 5, 5, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 5, 10, Total - 70
970 - 1080i: 10, 5, 3, 5, 10, 10, 5, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 0, 10, Total - 73
971 - 480p: 10, 5, 3, 10, 10, 10, 5, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 10, 10, Total - 88
971 - 540p: 5, 5, 3, 10, 10, 10, 5, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 0, 10, Total - 78
971 - 720p: 10, 5, 3, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 10, 10, Total - 93
971 - 1080i: 5, 5, 3, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 0, 10, Total - 78



Thanks for testing this.

I copied your results just for reference. Your 480i result on the XR5 is almost identical to mine. It's actually very good relative to my other two displays. I would not consider 78 a "low" score at all. My Sony GWIII scored 30 and Panny TH50PX50U scored 35 for 480i.

It's a little concerning the 971 is having trouble with 1080i. The test indicates it is resolving sub-DVD resolution at both 1080i and 540p output.

Folks with 8th gen consumer Panasonic pdp's may not find the 971 a very good match as those displays don't process 720p well and the 971 isn't doing very well with 1080i.

Here are my HQV results for reference (tested with the Tosh A1). You have to right click and save to desktop to see the text file.

Wolfie why not use the zoom or the stadium settings to eliminate the bars also any full screen no logos channel will do the trick no need for the screen whiper.
The discovery hd channels works good for the temp ir, bright programs, try it. :)[/QUOTE]


Yeh, that is what I am currently doing to avoid the bars and logos, but I am just tired of having to worry about it, I just want to be able to change channels, sit back, relax and watch :-)

I am on vacation now, but I am gonna test it out some more when I get home next weekend (my roomie is putting on some extra hours for me while I am gone, although by now I am WAY beyond break in :-p). If nothing changes, I may call NEC as dlconner mentioned, cause this just doesn't seem right to me.


Thanks to everyone for their input, it's much appreciated :-)