Has anyone gotten to see or buy the new 42 inch model yet and if so how is it? Thanks!

Big Mac:

With the quality of the scaler on the NEC, is there any PQ advantage to getting an upconverting DVD player like the Oppo? Have you tested your NEC with a "regular" DVD player to compare?


I have not . I do have an old sony non progressive scan DVD player . I will look into it . Someone else in the forum did mention about this issue and there wasn't much of a difference.

Good question, Viventis. I'm looking at snagging an upconverting DVD player, and wonder if I really need to, even though it only costs two digits, but if it's not needed, I can pick one up really, really cheap, and leave it all up to my NEC XR5 (the sweet thing).

Or what about a non-progressive scan? I am considering the Panasonic DVD-S97S -- progressive scan, upscaling, and HDMI output. Otherwise it is an older Panasonic with none of those three features.

"The Worry Bird"

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for posting your experience, pics, etc. I have been anxiously watching this thread as I would like to "pull ther trigger" very soon.

I was actually ready to buy the 50XM4/50XR4 last year; but only one issue prevented that - it was the dreaded "Image Retention" or "Ghosting" or whatever you want to call it, but the quick test was the was the menu would stay visible on a subsequent black screen (and even in a subsequent picture for a few seconds). I could see this same problem on other derrivitive NEC plasmas (Marantz and Mitsubishi) in showrooms where I had to assume they could really rack up some hours, and so the problem wasn't going away with time.

Can you all confirm that there is *NO* image retention issues? Preferably, can you leave a menu up for a a short period, switch to a black screen, and post a pic of the image retention if there is any?

I'm wondering if anyone in the San Jose area has received one of these yet, and wouldn't mind allowing me to get a quick view - I'll bring beer :) Anyway, seeing something in person would greatly ease the decision for me.

Thanks for all your great reviews and continued sharing of your XR5 experiences!

I am not sure what time period you need to look for image retention.
with Menu on for approximately 5-7 minutes , i have not seen image retention.
Have watched 5 or so movies so far . A better test would be watching a widescreen movie followed by full length . I did that yesterday .
The horizontal bar or line should retain as it is image is stationary for 3 hours . I have not noticed that so far , that 's all i can say in my brief interaction with this new toy .

How & What for cleaning my new plasma screen ?
Thanks for your help in advance .
Chris ( Cleveland Plasma), you have any products fro cleaning etc?

Man,
You seem to be a worry bird . Buy the TV and enjoy.
A great picture quality is what it boils down ot in the end . 1080 or 90 .
This TV has excellent PQ out of the box ,and that is what matters, after you spend all that money. Specs won't make you happy in the end .

I could not agree with you more. One way or the other the consumer electronics companies will ensure that your plasma becomes obsolete, this is how they stay in business. It is not in their self serving interest for you to have a plasma lasting 10 YEARS, not even the ones with 1080P.

Has anyone gotten to see or buy the new 42 inch model yet and if so how is it? Thanks!

I think it is safe to assume that if the scaler is as good as that in the 50XR5 then the 42" will have a better picture as it appears to be the pioneer glass which I believe is the best available. The excellent 14 bit NEC processing should really let this baby shine.

How is it that my post counter is still remaining at 68, too bad for me.

So, I've also been in the market for a new Panny 50", but this NEC is sounding WAY too good to be true. Would most of you prefer the NEC 50" to the Panny? I've been able to locate several of the Pannys locally at excellent prices. Does anyone know of an outlet that sells the NEC and offers competitive financing?

I was really hoping to see more info out of CES this week regarding 1080p plasmas. So far, it looks like nothing exciting has been announced. I imagine that any 1080p Plasma is going to be outlandishly priced for the foreseeable future.

Lastly, are there any potential issues with Blue Ray and HD-DVD compatability with a 720p display such as this?

Thanks!

(Torch) The 42" NEC uses its own glass just like the 50". Only the 61 shares the same glass at this point.

(Big Mac) I'll tell you I have cleaned many screens in my day. To get any piece of glass streek free, looking at it in an angle, in sunlight is almost impossible, until I ran into this product. Takes about 3 mins to clean a screen streek free.

http://www.opti-max.net/images/New-Label10%20copy.jpg

(Drsiebling) There is no dought that the NEC's are changing peoples minds about what a plasma screen is all about.

What is the street price for this 50" NEC? What have people been getting them for?

What is the street price for this 50" NEC? What have people been getting them for?

Just look at some of the sponsor links on the top for this kind of information. Plasmaconcepts, for instance.

Or what about a non-progressive scan? I am considering the Panasonic DVD-S97S -- progressive scan, upscaling, and HDMI output. Otherwise it is an older Panasonic with none of those three features.

"The Worry Bird"

This AVS post is an excellent Primer on how all of this DVD technology works. Well worth the read.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=477740

Does anybody know where you can see one of these in person i New York City or nearby NJ? I called NEC, and they gave me some names. None of them seemed to actually have them. I'm very interested in the 50", but really want to see it first.

I jumped into the wagon without even looking at a XR5.

Now I do not repent it. After I purchased it I compared it with my neighbors Panasonic and other Plasma models at the stores at near by. Stores.

I only have standard def Dish receiver and DVD player.
It made a big difference.

Though I am not very familiar with videophile Lingo, for me and family this is a better purchase.

Sry guys I just cant seem to justify the extra cost increase for the nec over the 50 inch panny and the price of the nec table stand is almost twice the price of the panny stand. No way that the Nec is that much better then the commercial panny. Well have fun with your nec . And yes I do know that the nec has so many more inputs but for right now the panny inputs are good and the price for the panny boards are small.

I jumped into the wagon without even looking at a XR5.

Now I do not repent it. After I purchased it I compared it with my neighbors Panasonic and other Plasma models at the stores at near by. Stores.

I only have standard def Dish receiver and DVD player.
It made a big difference.

Though I am not very familiar with videophile Lingo, for me and family this is a better purchase.


Same here. I had the feeling that it will be a good product and also the 3 yr warranty.
Another reason was the too common feeling with Panasonic and pioneer.
No regrets at all. I had great experience with NEC ealrlier.
My very first desktop computer 11 yrs ago was NEC.
That thing still works .
Total memory 512 MB . :D :D

Sry guys I just cant seem to justify the extra cost increase for the nec over the 50 inch panny and the price of the nec table stand is almost twice the price of the panny stand. No way that the Nec is that much better then the commercial panny. Well have fun with your nec . And yes I do know that the nec has so many more inputs but for right now the panny inputs are good and the price for the panny boards are small.

How much do you think is the price difference ?
I hope you are not looking at MSRP on NEC website . Please check with the online retailers on the forum .

No I have this is where I am seeing the price difference. I cant say the exact price but is is about a seven hundred jr bacon cheeseburger price difference.

No I have this is where I am seeing the price difference. I cant say the exact price but is is about a seven hundred jr bacon cheeseburger price difference.

That sure is a sum .
Don't blame you .
Do the panny 's have the same 3 yr warranty as NEC . That will be a way to justify it to some extent .

Yah the 3 yr over the 1 yr is nice but I am praying that if it doesnt break in the first year it probably wont ever.

No I have this is where I am seeing the price difference. I cant say the exact price but is is about a seven hundred jr bacon cheeseburger price difference.That's what I found to be the difference also. If you throw in the price difference of the stand you can add another $100, or so. Even with the added cost of an HDMI blade the Panny is a better deal. The 50XR5 looks pretty nice, but all else being relatively equal ...

I looked at the photos of this model on the NEC website and I could not see where the HDMI inputs are. The specs say it has two HDMI inputs but I can't physically see them among all the other in/outputs. Thanks.

Yah the 3 yr over the 1 yr is nice but I am praying that if it doesnt break in the first year it probably wont ever.

I hope your prayers come true .
I have had bad expericence with my apple laptop in 2nd year . That wasn't pleasant .
Would recommend a plan which would add another 300-400 bucks .

I looked at the photos of this model on the NEC website and I could not see where the HDMI inputs are. The specs say it has two HDMI inputs but I can't physically see them among all the other in/outputs. Thanks.


On the 50 inch model they are lowermost input on the input panel. Please check page 7 of this thread for picture.

NEC PX-42XR4, PX-50XR5, and PX-61XR4 PDF HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/File/NEC_XR5_Series.pdf)

No I have this is where I am seeing the price difference. I cant say the exact price but is is about a seven hundred jr bacon cheeseburger price difference.

With everything being equal (adding two HDMI/DVI blades to the Panny), and assuming a pedestal stand for each (the nice all-aluminum NEC one), the difference is actually around 300 of those jr cheeseburgers. Considering that you'd have to pay for an extended warranty on the panny to get it out to 3 years like the NEC, the NEC then actually becomes a better value. You would still have to deal with carry-in warranty for the first year on the panny as well.

Go ahead and get the panny if you want, but I wouldn't agree with your value assessment.

Yes with the 3 yr warranty the price would be similar but Say i felt warranties are a waste of money and a way for companies to make 100% profit especially the ones they sell at circuit city and best buy then I would rather save the 300 burgers and treat myself to an hd dvd player when they come out.

I am quite certain that the majority of those third party guaranty plans are a great rip-off. I am also quite convinced that purchasing based upon warranty is a bad starategy to begin with.
Just my opinion.

I don't have stake in the game (yet), but if the warranty length isn't a value proposition then there's another way to bridge that burger gap: the NEC XM5. These commerical models are closer in price to the Pannys. The XM5 input packages are somewhat inferior to the consumer XR5s, but if you can live with just one digital input (DVI-HDCP) for a while maybe 300 burgers will buy a good digital-switching A/V receiver in a year's time.

All I really wanted to say was if I had the money yes I would probably get the nec it looks awesome but for me who cannot afford the little bit extra the panny works great and compares great in the image quality category. Didnt want to ruffle anyones feathers

No worries - Panasonic or NEC. These are both top-notch brands.

Anybody know if the XM5 commerical models have any input replacement/expandability? The Panny commercial units have their blades which provide some degree of future-proofing. I understand w/ the Pioneer commercial models you can replace the input panel (though at significant expense). Any similar upgradability for the XM5s?

As I am in the market for a 50 inch plasma perhaps Chris or someone who knows could comment on the "crystal clear panel drive" and "bonded color filter" mentioned in the NEC 42 inch spec release. Why is the 42 the only panel with these features? Why does the 50 have an R5 designation?

Could any owners comment on the image retention issue. I am very concerned with posts like these as I could never be happy worrying about retention after watching a few minutes of something on a brand new plasma.


But what's freaking me out is i have only been considering plasmas because i hate the projected look of a RPTV or DLP. I have been chastising newbies for refusing to buy plasmas because of the burn-in issue even though they preferred the PQ of the plasma. I've been telling them that Panasonic says that it is equal to CRT levels as far as the possibility of burn in. I've been telling myself, after much research, that unless someone did something really stupid like leave a menu on all night there was no need to worry as long as the contrast was turned down etc. Just simple common sense. Now i hear that a brand new NEC plasma, a reference panel from one of the oldest and most respected companies in the world( of plasma TV's) did show a little image retention after just a few minutes of normal TV watching. I can't live with that, i watch primarilly premium cable, cable news, some DVD's, and some PC usage with an occasional PC game, obviously upgrading to Comcast HD. Once again, what is freaking me out is not that a plasma did show some retention, what is freaking me out is it happened after a few minutes which is way below the threshold of normal viewing. When i would read the various owners manuals they all would say something like " try not to leave still images, logos, etc on screen for certain length of time".....but a few minutes? How can someone enjoy watching one half hour show in its entirety without this baggage hanging over your head? Perhaps that 48 hour torture test was a misprint and meant 48 minutes? I do understand that image retention can be reversed, but that's not the point, the point being that it affects your viewing habits which i didn't want. If there's breaking news on CNN, i don't want to have to hesitate on the remote.

I am quite certain that the majority of those third party guaranty plans are a great rip-off. I am also quite convinced that purchasing based upon warranty is a bad starategy to begin with.
Just my opinion.

I see your point with the first statement. Extended warranties are cash cows for the seller. Some like to have the peace of mind, though.

The second part I don't agree with. A manufacturer who offers an extended warranty as standard with their product demonstrates confidence that the product is reliable. Fujitsu and NEC have the only 3 year manufacturer warranties on pdp's that I'm aware of. Both of these companies have excellent reputations for reliability as well.

with Menu on for approximately 5-7 minutes , i have not seen image retention.
Have watched 5 or so movies so far . A better test would be watching a widescreen movie followed by full length . I did that yesterday .
The horizontal bar or line should retain as it is image is stationary for 3 hours . I have not noticed that so far , that 's all i can say in my brief interaction with this new toy .

Thanks Big Mac,

Can others confirm that there is no image retention? cpcat, could you confirm?
Also, are you all happy with your black levels?

Thanks!

No worries - Panasonic or NEC. These are both top-notch brands.

Anybody know if the XM5 commerical models have any input replacement/expandability? The Panny commercial units have their blades which provide some degree of future-proofing. I understand w/ the Pioneer commercial models you can replace the input panel (though at significant expense). Any similar upgradability for the XM5s?

NEC PX-50XM5 INFO HERE (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Products/Product/?product=7553006a-f0f3-43c5-81c4-1f7e92ec03e0)

As far as expendability, None. Comes with Composite, S-video, Component, Component RGB , VGA, and 1 DVI input with HDPC.

Thanks Big Mac,

Can others confirm that there is no image retention? cpcat, could you confirm?
Also, are you all happy with your black levels?

Thanks!

Black levels are on par or even superior to my TH-50PX50U. Shadow detail is about equivalent.

No problems with image retention. Ghosting or after-imaging is occasionally visible but promptly dissappears with normal viewing. I also saw this with the TH-50PX50U and it became a non-issue after around 50 hours or so on the panel. Can't say whether that will happen with the 50XR5 yet, but I suspect it will.

No matter what plasma you go with, you'll need to practice some burn-in precautions especially in the first 100 hours or so.

See http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/273087528Pioneer%20DTV%20White%20Paper%20-%20FINAL.pdf

and
http://www.fcw.com/vendorsolutions/panasonicplasma.pdf

Talking of blacks .
I watched Madagascar last nite. The black on the penguins back was probably the darkest black , i have ever seen.Like black black . As black as the panel at the bottom of this forum, where cleveland plasma is hosted.

Do you keep your plasma's on or standby mode , when you are away from TV ?.
I assume DVD player is shut off of course cause of burn in.

I have exactly 48" in width to place a 50" plasma. The NEC is 48.3" in width. With only 0.3" overhang, I am contemplating having the front edge of the panel sit outside my entertainment center. I'm not sure how I would go about mounting it, given that the stand has to protrude in front of the panel. How does the stand mount to the panel? Is what I'm thinking about feasible?

No stand here .

I have exactly 48" in width to place a 50" plasma. The NEC is 48.3" in width. With only 0.3" overhang, I am contemplating having the front edge of the panel sit outside my entertainment center. I'm not sure how I would go about mounting it, given that the stand has to protrude in front of the panel. How does the stand mount to the panel? Is what I'm thinking about feasible?

How handy are you? A cheaper route would be install a piece of plywood the proper distance back in the entertainment system and use a wall mount. A wall mount is $125 less than the stand.

This holds for the 50 and 61 inch models. The 42 inch model has the video inputs on the bottom. I like the inputs on the side, actually. They are easier to access but yet still inset from the edge enough to hide the connections.

On a side note, I've made a big change with my 50XR5. I took the external scaler out of the loop entirely. Guess what? The picture is better overall!!
Better blacks, color, contrast. Overall, a richer, more natural image but with no loss in perceived resolution and I think even *less* noise/artifacting. This is one nice set. Thanks to mnfnet for spurring me on to look at the AVIA grey ramps. :) Once I started playing around with the grey scale adjustments, I found I could actually get a nice smooth ramp with the scaler in bypass mode while I still had a few bands with the scaler in the loop.

Here are the results of my adjustments so far. I'm using HDMI/DVI inputs:

Contrast 52
Brt 36
Color 32
Tint 32
Color temp Mid-low with below adjustments
* GR 34
* GG 27
* GB 30
* BR 40
* BG 40
* BB 40
Gamma 2.2
Pedestal 0
Picture mode Theater 1

.


cpcat

Do you believe the fact that contrast should be less than 50 % in the initial 100 hrs ?
Your contrast is set at 52 . Max contrast is around 75 so you are around 65 -70 % with 52.

cpcat

Do you believe the fact that contrast should be less than 50 % in the initial 100 hrs ?
Your contrast is set at 52 . Max contrast is around 75 so you are around 65 -70 % with 52.

I believe it, but the contrast that low just isn't enjoyable for me. I watch almost exclusively HD anyway so 4:3 material is limited to commercials. Also, the NEC allows you to stretch 4:3 HD material (the panny doesn't allow this, worth mentioning) so there's really no need for leaving pillar bars on the screen for any length of time in the break-in period. I plan to watch only widescreen DVD's with 1.85:1 or 1.78:1 AR during the first 100 hours as well. You could also zoom to get rid of black bars but I hate doing that. Finally, for particularly aggravating logos (like Noggin for ex.), I run the screen wiper. The kids don't seem to mind a bit.

I have moved my contrast down to 48, though. I've found it looks a little clearer with sports and I prefer it.

Also, "low tone" set to 1 seems to improve the black levels even further if you want to give that a try.

BTW, those settings you refer to are my initial settings. I had a more recent post with revised settings which I prefer. The only thing I've changed significantly since the more recent post is backing contrast down to 48 and "low tone " to 1.

Can someone explain about the screen wiper - what it does and when (how often) it should be run?

Lisa,

The screen wiper is a bright white vertical bar about 1-2" thick that scrolls from the left to right of the screen every couple of minutes. It can be turned on or off from the pdp saver menu. It is not necessary to run, but some feel it is a nice precaution to run once in a while during the breakin period.

I am getting horizonial running from the bottem of my screen to the top. They are about a foot apart. VERY VERY faint. i see them only when in darken room and dark screen scenes. Color pinkish. I have a comcast HD DR box, so i suspect it is the feed. have not seen these lines when watching DVDs. what is the cause? & correction ?
db

I believe it, but the contrast that low just isn't enjoyable for me.
I have moved my contrast down to 48, though. I've found it looks a little clearer with sports and I prefer it.

BTW, those settings you refer to are my initial settings. I had a more recent post with revised settings which I prefer. The only thing I've changed significantly since the more recent post is backing contrast down to 48 and "low tone " to 1.

In response to cpcat's warning, where he is stipulating that the "75" setting is equal to 100% contrast and therefore suggests that the setting "52" is way over the recommended 50% limit (close to 67%), I will posit that the tv is already calibrated in percentage of contrast, so the setting "75" means 75% contrast. Therefore, the setting "52" is only a little over the 50% line. After all, the tv could never do 100% contrast and 0% contrast would correspond to a white-out (or black-out). Of course, I say this without having consulted the owner's manual; cpcat may be correct.

If max contrast is 75, I'd assume that 50 percent or less would be 37 or less assuming you are set to 100% screen brightness in the pdp saver menu. If you go by the Panasonic whitepaper, 50 percent of max is the recc. for the first 100 hours. However, no rule is absolute and I want to enjoy my TV now. My preferred setting for contrast is around 48 which gives me the best PQ to my eye so that's where I set it. I simply fill the screen almost all the time and am being careful about high contrast logos.

I use the screen wiper just for added insurance for times (like now) where my kids are downstairs with their mother watching Noggin. It's in "stadium" mode but Noggin has an aggravating bright logo in the bottom right corner so I also have the screen wiper on. The kids don't seem to mind a bit.

I am getting horizonial running from the bottem of my screen to the top. They are about a foot apart. VERY VERY faint. i see them only when in darken room and dark screen scenes. Color pinkish. I have a comcast HD DR box, so i suspect it is the feed. have not seen these lines when watching DVDs. what is the cause? & correction ?
db


Could be a ground loop. Try floating the ground with a cheater plug on the TV's power cord and see if that fixes it.

If that's the problem, you'll then have to decide if you want to continue to float the ground or try to fix the ground loop.

I'll hesitate about telling you which way to go, but I can tell you that manufacturers have been floating the ground on CRT TV's for years.

CPCAT, i'll look at that. i have a dedicated (new) line for the HT. all house electrical is new 4 yr old. (connected-xr5-dvd-comcast box- denon 3803) -subwoofer on a different line. I'll look to see if the coax cable needs a ground, they had a copper ground wire on it where the outside cable meets the shorter inside cable (inside the house) , but it wasn't reground after the remolding. Also i'll look at the shorter coax cable connector and make sure it's well connected.
db

I guess I am the only one that has noticed this, but the 42" XR4 has two features that niether the 50" or the 61" have:

"Crystal Clear Panel/Drive" for 130% improved brightness, etc.

"Bonded Color Filter" for improved color and black level...

I read this in the link posted by Cleveland Plasma. What it says to me is that the 42" is the only one of the new NEC's that has the Pioneeer "Crystal Emissive Layer". Comments anyone...if you please...anyone seen the 42" version yet and compared it to the 50???

I guess I am the only one that has noticed this, but the 42" XR4 has two features that niether the 50" or the 61" have:

"Crystal Clear Panel/Drive" for 130% improved brightness, etc.

"Bonded Color Filter" for improved color and black level...

I read this in the link posted by Cleveland Plasma. What it says to me is that the 42" is the only one of the new NEC's that has the Pioneeer "Crystal Emissive Layer". Comments anyone...if you please...anyone seen the 42" version yet and compared it to the 50???

There was a little discussion of this earlier in the thread somewhere so others did notice it. We weren't sure if meant that it has Pioneer glass or what, but as far as I know, no one has their hands on a 42" yet although a couple of people have one on order so we are anxiously waiting their reviews.

Cleveland Plasma thinks it does not share the Pioneer glass. He said earlier, "The 42" NEC uses its own glass just like the 50". Only the 61 shares the same glass at this point." So I guess we don't know why the different features at this point.

I guess I am the only one that has noticed this, but the 42" XR4 has two features that neither the 50" or the 61" have:

"Crystal Clear Panel/Drive" for 130% improved brightness, etc.

"Bonded Color Filter" for improved color and black level...

I read this in the link posted by Cleveland Plasma. What it says to me is that the 42" is the only one of the new NEC's that has the Pioneeer "Crystal Emissive Layer". Comments anyone...if you please...anyone seen the 42" version yet and compared it to the 50???


I posted this question below back on page 10 post #283. Cleveland Plasma responded to some other questions, but not this one.

As I am in the market for a 50 inch plasma perhaps Chris or someone who knows could comment on the "crystal clear panel drive" and "bonded color filter" mentioned in the NEC 42 inch spec release. Why is the 42 the only panel with these features? Why does the 50 have an R5 designation?

Could any owners comment on the image retention issue. I am very concerned with posts like these as I could never be happy worrying about retention after watching a few minutes of something on a brand new plasma.

Cleveland Plasma thinks it does not share the Pioneer glass. He said earlier, "The 42" NEC uses its own glass just like the 50". Only the 61 shares the same glass at this point." So I guess we don't know why the different features at this point.

That is what I am told by NEC reps, in fact two different NEC reps. However I can only go by what they tell me. The only glass shared by NEC and Pioneer is the glass on the 61".

I am still gathering information on the 2 other questions.

Nec Customer care # is 800-284-4484.

My 50xr5 has arrived safe and sound – thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma for “taking care of business”. :) Mount is up and cabling is done, but family business will keep me from actually connecting sources and speakers for a couple of days :mad:

Meanwhile, here are some bits of info I found while doing the physical inspection:

1)Main module ID (viewed through upper-left grid holes on back of PDP) is a Pioneer NP50X6MF01. A quick google search suggests that this may not be new for ’06. @Spur and tomboyter - the plot thickens.

2)Mounting hole locations and screw sizes were spot-on to NEC’s installation pdf. Good thing, since I had previously set the wall mount based on these specs. The panel will end up at the exact height I had planned for.

3)The 2 fans are Sanyo Denko 120mm DC with speed control. They’re located at top center and toward the top left when viewing the panel from the front. Model number does not show up on the Sanyo Denko website. Not surprising, typical for OEM suppliers.

4)This thing is indeed very handsome – very dark gray with a flat silver banding around the outside. I’m especially happy with this, since I’m replacing a commercial 42”, and really like the minimalist look. The silver banding gives the NEC just a bit of class, without being gaudy.

5)The side inputs should be a nice improvement over my last panel’s bottom inputs, especially since I’ll be using both of those poorly designed HDMI connections. Since the right edge is seen when entering the room, I’ll definitely be covering the cables when done with the install.

6)Although I found the expected “Made in Japan” on the display, did not see a manufacture date. Maybe I just missed it. The model and serial numbers were thoughtfully stickered on the side – a nice touch.

Here’s a link to some information on the main module. It’s from Pioneer Japan’s site (in English) and does a nice job explaining NEC’s CCF, Black Stripe and other technologies for those that are interested:

Link Here (http://www.pioneer.co.jp/ppd/en/product/modules/lineup/np50.html)

From what I’ve seen from others here, my meager 2.1 mp digicam will not do justice to this display’s output (honey, we really, really need a DSLR), but I’ll see what I can come up with. As to opinions and impressions, lots more to come in a few days – hope you all do better with the patience thing than I am. I’m really (cough, cough) feeling a sick day coming on!

Dave

Thanks to drgingras, Chris and N8g for the info. The 50xr5 is one of 4 panels I have narrowed my search down to. ( the others being the panny 8uk, 600u and Toshiba hpx)

You guys that buy site unseen fascinate me and I appreciate your sharing.

That is what I am told by NEC reps, in fact two different NEC reps. However I can only go by what they tell me. The only glass shared by NEC and Pioneer is the glass on the 61".


1)Main module ID (viewed through upper-left grid holes on back of PDP) is a Pioneer NP50X6MF01. A quick google search suggests that this may not be new for ’06. @Spur and tomboyter - the plot thickens.

Well according to drgingras we have our answer. I don't think this changes things much for me because if I follow drgingras post correctly this means the 50xr5 shares the new pio panel. Since I have read many post stating these are almost as good to as good as the panny with regard to black levels maybe NEC's tweaks have gotten them over the hump and thus cpcat's post

Black levels are on par or even superior to my TH-50PX50U. Shadow detail is about equivalent.

None of this however makes my decision easier. When I first found this forum I would read posts from people stating the had been searching for a year and I thought they were crazy. I am about to join this club myself :(

1)Main module ID (viewed through upper-left grid holes on back of PDP) is a Pioneer NP50X6MF01. A quick google search suggests that this may not be new for ’06. @Spur and tomboyter - the plot thickens.
Dave

It's fun to play detective and conclude from this that the Pio 50 = NEC 50, but there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. (i) Like Chris, I too have been told on two occasions by NEC reps and a local installer that the glass is NOT the same between Pio and NEC, not yet anyway. (ii) No one is hiding the fact that Pioneer purchased the NEC plasma operation, which in itself may explain the appearance of the Pioneer name on the main module. It would be more informative to get someone who owns a 50-inch Elite or 5060 to look for the stamping on the main module in such a unit, to see if the two units bear identical stampings. (iii) I think I remember that the Pio 50 and the NEC 50 have slightly different pixel counts. (iv) All sources agree that the associated electronics are NOT the same, between Pio and NEC. Finally, the proof is in the pudding; it's a great panel no matter which of the two excellent parents is responsible. It's a win/win situation.

I've gone back to default color temperature setting at "mid". In spite of the fact that the AVIA grey ramp doesn't look quite as smooth, it provides much more accurate colors. I was back to "wow" again last night with CSI Miami.

Also, "low tone" set to 1 at first seemed to improve the blacks a little, but it's stealing too much shadow detail. Went back to "auto".

I guess I'll stick to my day job afterall. :)

I'll leave grey scale adjustment to someone who knows what they're doing.

CPCat, can you publish your up to date settings?

CPCat, can you publish your up to date settings?

I though you'd never ask. :)

NEC 50XR5 through HDMI inputs, HDMI set to "high" in setup menu

Contrast 48
Brt 36
Sharp 0
Color 28
Tint 31
Color Temp Mid (at default values, all 40)
Pic mode Theater 1
Gamma 2.2
Pedestal 0
Low tone auto

Can anyone with the swivel stand please comment on whether the 50XR5 has power swivel like that of the Hitachi models? Or is it old-fashioned manual swivel?

thanks.

I think I remember that the Pio 50 and the NEC 50 have slightly different pixel counts.
Slightly . . .

Pioneer: 1280X768 NEC: 1365X768 Therefore not the same glass.

OTOH, the lower horizontal count in the Pio does not equate to a diminished PQ. It is stellar.

It's fun to play detective and conclude from this that the Pio 50 = NEC 50, but there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. (i) Like Chris, I too have been told on two occasions by NEC reps and a local installer that the glass is NOT the same between Pio and NEC, not yet anyway. (ii) No one is hiding the fact that Pioneer purchased the NEC plasma operation, which in itself may explain the appearance of the Pioneer name on the main module. It would be more informative to get someone who owns a 50-inch Elite or 5060 to look for the stamping on the main module in such a unit, to see if the two units bear identical stampings. (iii) I think I remember that the Pio 50 and the NEC 50 have slightly different pixel counts. (iv) All sources agree that the associated electronics are NOT the same, between Pio and NEC. Finally, the proof is in the pudding; it's a great panel no matter which of the two excellent parents is responsible. It's a win/win situation.

Sorry if I inferred that the main board was common to the Pio50 and Nec 50. The link I provided refers repeatedly to NEC panels, not Pio. As you stated, Pio has owned NEC since 2004, so a board labeled "Pioneer" in a NEC panel does not imply anything. My only suggestion was that this main board part number could possibly mean that this particular board is not a new product. Then again, maybe they're re-using a model number. As I said, the plot thickens, but the whole story has yet to be told. And, yes, my first impression is that this is a great panel, no matter what the outcome.

Dave

Here’s a link to some information on the main module. It’s from Pioneer Japan’s site (in English) and does a nice job explaining NEC’s CCF, Black Stripe and other technologies for those that are interested:

Link Here (http://www.pioneer.co.jp/ppd/en/product/modules/lineup/np50.html)

Dave
Thanks drgingras, interesting reading. And I noted that while this was a Pioneer site, the descriptions were for the NEC panels. Hmmmmm

Sorry if I inferred that the main board was common to the Pio50 and Nec 50. The link I provided refers repeatedly to NEC panels, not Pio. As you stated, Pio has owned NEC since 2004, so a board labeled "Pioneer" in a NEC panel does not imply anything. My only suggestion was that this main board part number could possibly mean that this particular board is not a new product. Then again, maybe they're re-using a model number. As I said, the plot thickens, but the whole story has yet to be told. And, yes, my first impression is that this is a great panel, no matter what the outcome.

Dave

What information did you find that leads you to believe that display panel may not be new? I did a quick google search and looked over the web site you posted, but I missed it. I did see a few copyrights of 2005 while some were 2006, but 2005 was only 10 days ago (that long already?). So do you think this glass was used in the previous gen panels, and they just updated the electronics? Just wondering what you found.

What information did you find that leads you to believe that display panel may not be new? I did a quick google search and looked over the web site you posted, but I missed it. I did see a few copyrights of 2005 while some were 2006, but 2005 was only 10 days ago (that long already?). So do you think this glass was used in the previous gen panels, and they just updated the electronics? Just wondering what you found.

Take a look at this one Google Translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.nec.co.jp/press/ja/0407/2701.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnp50x6mf01%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D) - not exactly conclusive either, but this was what caught my attention.

Dave

Take a look at this one Google Translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.nec.co.jp/press/ja/0407/2701.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnp50x6mf01%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D) - not exactly conclusive either, but this was what caught my attention.

Dave

Hi Dave,

My work blocks any translation pages. Anyway you can copy and paste what this says into a post? Thanks!

Take a look at this one Google Translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.nec.co.jp/press/ja/0407/2701.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnp50x6mf01%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D) - not exactly conclusive either, but this was what caught my attention.

Dave

It sure does look like the NP50X6MF01 panel was used in the last year's 50XM4 model, which is also similar to the 50XR4 commercial version. I guess just because the panel is the same on this year's 50XR5, it doesn't mean NEC hasn't found a improved way to drive the panel to get better blacks. Panasonic has stated that there excellent blacks are due to how the low level firing of the panel is done. I guess the proof is in the excellent reviews the 50XR5 has been getting.

Hi Dave,

My work blocks any translation pages. Anyway you can copy and paste what this says into a post? Thanks!

tony17,

It's a NEC Japan press release dated July 27, 2004. It seems to announce the new (at that time) commercial line of NEC plasmas. The infamous main board is mentioned with the 42 and 50 models. Cut & paste from the press release:

"The plasma display 4 type for business which actualizes the discernment place contrast of industry highest level sale

July of 2004 27th The NEC plasma display corporation

The NEC plasma display this each time, line-up of plasma display for business one newly, the XGA model 3 type (the PX-61XM3J, the PX-50XM4J and the PX-42XM3J) and, the VGA model 1 type (PX-42VM5J) from August 25th of 2004 consecutively, sells the total 4 type at open price.

Merit of the new product is as follows.

(1) Industry highest discernment place contrast actualization
In 50 type XGA models and 42 type XGA models, the new plasma display module which approximately 1.5 times (this corporation former ratio) improvement and electric power consumption approximately 20% (this corporation former ratio) decreases luminous efficiency with the optimization of gas constitution ratio and the adoption of cube type high luminous efficiency cell structure (type turn: Industry highest discernment place contrast 200:1 (at the time of 100 lux) it actualizes the NP50X6MF01/NP42H5MF01) by loading.
(2) Large-sized picture indication of maximum of 305 inches actualization
In addition to the combination of the former 4 aspects and 9 aspects, to actualize the display combination to the maximum of 25 aspects anew, large size display of maximum of 305 inches (at the time of 61 type use) construction possibility.
(3) Largest expression color 4096 gradation 687 hundred million colors actualization
The occasion where the inter- less signal is converted progressively, sampling also the carrier chrominance signal not only the luminance signal, decipherment characteristic of the letter which makes the expression which has the キレ which interpolates to adopt the " MassArea Superior Sampling Technology ", is not the color rainbow straw raincoat possible, is required from business use substantially improvement. In addition, gradation expression of the dark space is improved gamma (gamma) 12 bit conversion processing technology " gamma of revision by the fact that you adopt -12 ", industry highest 4096 gradations, actualizes 687 hundred million color indication suitable image expressions. To collapse black also tend scene such as scene of the room whose monochrome image is dark, being rich, in smooth expression finely indicatory possibility. Furthermore the gradation expression which provides the gamma revision mode of 4 types, adjusts to the image source selective possibility.
(4) Corresponds to various applications the professional use function
which Because the conference system and it corresponds to the needs of presentation use, " the DigitalAccuDevice (R)" (note) 2 systems it loads onto 61 types and 50 types, it actualizes 2 picture functions of the advanced * high picture quality which the child picture is indicated in clearly. In addition, to actualize the multiple interface which makes, the connection with the various image equipment such as loading the DVI terminal which corresponds to the HDCP of the next generation digital interface standard and the BOXPC on the monitor rear adopting the loading possible design possible, in future expandability consideration.


With the NEC plasma display, electronic announcement indicatory and guide in the store and the transportation et cetera with the expansion of the plasma display for business with the line-up renovation of this each time, indicatory use, it is the schedule which keeps aiming toward the guaranty of the share 20% which answers the needs of the customer in, various utilization scenes, such as presentation and the television meeting use in the office and the education system in the plasma display market for business.

Merit and main specification of the new product the annex reference."

Hey, you asked for it :D

Dave

I was looking forward to buying the NEC 42 VR5 this spring, mostly because it delivered the best picture with a SD source (in my opinion), but now I'm thinking about getting the 42 XR4.

I know that HD plasmas typically don't handle SD sources as well as ED plasmas, so I'm wondering if anyone has any comments about the picture quality of the new XR4s when watching standard digital cable TV. I'd love a HD set, but not if it means sacrificing picture quality while watching SD television.

Any comments would be really appreciated....really. Thanks,
D.

Dave,

I actually have the VR5 and did a review of SD against my new XR5 towards the beginning of this post if you want to read it. Bottom line is the new XR5 handles SD exceptionally well for a 50" HD plasma. At about 10' it is just as good as my VR5. You start getting a little closer than that and the VR5 is a little better. This is probably also due to the screen size difference between 50" and 42" as well, so I am sure the 42XR4 will look great. I think LisaM will be the first to receive the 42XR4 so maybe she can comment once setup.

I agree with your assessment of the VR5 too. In my opinion, it definitely has one of the best SD pic quality you can find. I'm still very much enjoying that panel in the bedroom!

Thanks Tony17, that's very encouraging. It will be interesting to read LisaM's take on it when she gets her 42XR4.

Thanks again,
D.
P.S. I just read your indepth review.... well done and very helpful. Thanks one more time.

I am still awaiting the delivery of the new 42XR4 - hopefully on Friday afternoon.

By now I expected to be the happy owner of a 42XR4 panel-- I ordered from Chris on 12-29-05. The shipment made it from New York to Birmingham via Watkin's arriving on 1-4-06 where they were then supposed to transfer it to another freight company for the local delivery. But as of today Watkin's informed me that they don't know where it is-- the consolation they offered me was that it should show back up in a day or two!

I hope that isn't "normal", since mine will ship from New York as well, but to Indianapolis. A little patience and an otherwise busy schedule will alleviate any nerves. Good Luck!

Thanks to Bob at PlasmaConcepts, my 42XR4 was delivered this afternoon (24 hours after placing my order :) ). But, in order to install it, I need the mount which should get here in the next 2 days ! Will have plenty of time this week-end to connect my new toy and play with it. Will keep you posted. :D

I hope that isn't "normal", since mine will ship from New York as well, but to Indianapolis. A little patience and an otherwise busy schedule will alleviate any nerves. Good Luck!


So finally ...............
Congratulations !
I guarantee, you will love it :D :D :D

So, is the NEC XR5 last year's model or what?

So, is the NEC XR5 last year's model or what?

Last year's model didn't have 2 HDMI inputs. Nor did it accept 1080p through the analog inputs. It didn't have motion adaptive deinterlacing either or at least it wasn't mentioned with the specs/brochure. I think we're safe in assuming the electronics are different.

Whether the panel is different I don't know. Doesn't matter to me much one way or the other at this point with the PQ I'm getting from this thing.

Hi All,

Well, i got my 50XR5 (actually a 50XR5A - is there any difference?)
yesterday and after a couple of tweaks, it looks amazing! I went thru avia and calibrated. I was amazed to find that the colors were "perfect" out of the box! The brightness/contrast was not, had to bring it way down).

I have a couple of questions, if anyone out there can help it would be appreciated:

1. When hooked up through the VGA connector to my HTPC (running at 1368x768) I expected 2 pixels of overscan, but i actually see a 2 pixel gray border around the entire image. It's hardly noticeable, but i am concerned about image burn-in for the border. Anybody else have it hooked up through vga?

2. I plan on hooking up my HTPC through the DVI out -> hdmi in (just need to get an adapter) and was wondering what resolutions the NEC will accept over the HDMI inputs? Will i be able to run 1368x768 over the HDMI?

3. I am planning on hooking up a DVD player to the HDMI and looping a movie for awhile (100 hrs). Anyone have any suggestions as to source material? Does it matter at all, or just make sure the image is changing?

TIA,
Jeff

Just received MonoPrice- HDMI cables (i'll give my views latter),
this is the 1st time i have used hdmi cables.
I hooked up to comcast box to xr5 (audio via rca cables to denon 3803)
I get sound but no pic. i switched to hdmi3 on xr5, went into denon 3803 to try to tell it we now have HDMI -not component- , but still no picture.
how do i get the handshake- i have two hdmi cables so it's not the cables.

2. these come with Ferrite Cores- i have not seen these on any other weblink pictures of HDMI cables.
db

Thanks to mhfnet for getting me to scrutinize that grey scale and thanks for cpcat for pushing me to mess with the bias and gain colors under the color temp. After messing with this for a while I have been able to get what to my eyes is a perfect grey scale (taking a picture with a camera yields varying results for some reason, but that's another story). I rechecked the colors with the avia color test patterns and they seem to be pretty accurate after this as well. Anyway, below are my settings used for my dvd player over component to get a the grey scale best. For some reason my brightness is unusually low, the dvd players brightness must have been jacked up or something, but I don't have the remote for it anymore. I think most peoples will be around the 20-30 range.

50 - Contrast
15 - Brightness
28 - Color
28 - Tint
Mid-Low Color Temp
Theatre 1 Pic Mode
Gamma 2.2
Low Tone Auto
Pedestal 0
Gain Red - 26
Gain Green - 22
Gain Blue - 28
Bias Red - 38
Bias Green - 36
Bias Blue - 40

I then took these settings as a base to adjust my hdtivo over hdmi and came up with the following settings. I must say that to my eyes this has produced the most lifelike and amazing images to date. Anyone else with an HR10-250 have an XR5? I'd be curious to hear your settings and/or comments on the below as well.

51 - Contrast
34 - Brightness
30 - Color
31 - Tint
Mid-Low Color Temp
Theatre 1 Pic Mode
Gamma 2.2
Low Tone Auto
Pedestal 0
Gain Red - 27
Gain Green - 26
Gain Blue - 27
Bias Red - 38
Bias Green - 36
Bias Blue - 35

Here are some pics afterwards. I tried to post some that show there is really no clayface from this panel, as I know that last ones I posted ended up looking a little funny. Also, I have to post these with the caveat that they definitely look different from what you see in person. I think the camera adds some sort of brightness on the sides of peoples faces and the reduction in resolution definitely takes away from the sharpness. In person, the skintones look much more accurate and detailed. But I wanted to post something for you guys.

People

http://www.logmonster.com/images/full/?pic=Picture%20050%20Large_1136918184-236-5023.jpg

http://www.logmonster.com/images/full/?pic=Picture%20036%20Large_1136994550-236-5025.jpg

http://www.logmonster.com/images/full/?pic=Picture%20022%20Large_1136961969-236-5039.jpg

Scenes

http://www.logmonster.com/images/full/?pic=Picture%20056%20Large_1136929652-236-5027.jpg

http://www.logmonster.com/images/full/?pic=Picture%20049%20Large_1136902624-236-5028.jpg

http://www.logmonster.com/images/full/?pic=Picture%20054%20Large_1136955754-236-5029.jpg

have people noticed lipsync issues with the 50XR5, or is this problem more prevalent with DLP?

Thanks Tony for the new pics. They look much more even than the other ones. The landscpaes look particuarly nice!

I guess the 50XR5As are rolling in now...suspect the pace of this thread will pick up.

Mine arrived Monday afternoon with box damage. The box had an approx 8" wide opening at the bottom which I didn't see until opening the top to inspect the inside. Took some pix just in case. There was no damage evident to the TV though it suggested some rough handling at some point. Moral of the story: inspect the box thoroughly, including the bottom, before signing off on the delivery.

Got it mounted on the NEC swivel pedestal and Sanus A/V base yesterday and anxiously (based on box damage) cranked it up with OTA HD feed via Tosh DST3000 tuner. Stunning PQ out of the box. One Hidef channel was an interview with dark background, so got immediate opportunity to examine black behavior. Solid blacks, though with decent detail. As some have said, brightness and contrast need to be lowered a bit, but color rendition seemed spot on. Session with AVIA pending.

Then plugged in local analog cable feed via VCR (couldn't get my Tosh to handle the cable signal - problem for another day) and was AMAZED by SD PQ. One of the attributes which attracted me to this model was early reports of good SD PQ. I have a 2001 vintage Tosh HD RP and it was painful to watch SD material. Not so with this NEC.

As reference I spent many hours auditioning the Fuji 50in plasma and was about to pull the string on it when the NEC reports began filtering in. Local Magnolia had the Fuji nearly adjacent to a Panny 50in, which enabled good visual comparison. There was also a 50in Pio, but it was on the other side of the store. They also had ability to route an undivided HD feed to each set. The Fuji PQ was remarkable, subtle yet lifelike. The Panny PQ was also excellent, though a bit more "aggressive". I don't have the benefit of side-by-side among the Fuji, Panny, and NEC, but IMO the NEC PQ ranks right in this company for HD and perhaps slightly better on SD material.

Can anyone with the swivel stand please comment on whether the 50XR5 has power swivel like that of the Hitachi models? Or is it old-fashioned manual swivel?

thanks.

Sorry that no one seems to have answered your question til now. The stand is an "old-fashioned manual swivel type". But it is beautifully made of steel and aluminum, looks very nice once installed, and how often do you plan to swivel, anyway. Excessive swivelling can make you dizzy.
:)

Great job Tony! Can't wait to try those settings.

For the lipsync question: Can't say I've noticed any problem that I thought was the TV's fault. Even when using my external scaler which should introduce some added delay I've not noticed any problems.

DiscoveryHD has a chronic problem on/off though. Do *not* adjust your set though. :) It's them, not us.

what the warranty like with NEC? is it like pio where you have to purchase from an authorised reseller or more like panny where they dont care?

I guess the 50XR5As are rolling in now...suspect the pace of this thread will pick up.

Mine arrived Monday afternoon with box damage. The box had an approx 8" wide opening at the bottom which I didn't see until opening the top to inspect the inside. Took some pix just in case. There was no damage evident to the TV though it suggested some rough handling at some point. Moral of the story: inspect the box thoroughly, including the bottom, before signing off on the delivery.

Got it mounted on the NEC swivel pedestal and Sanus A/V base yesterday and anxiously (based on box damage) cranked it up with OTA HD feed via Tosh DST3000 tuner. Stunning PQ out of the box. One Hidef channel was an interview with dark background, so got immediate opportunity to examine black behavior. Solid blacks, though with decent detail. As some have said, brightness and contrast need to be lowered a bit, but color rendition seemed spot on. Session with AVIA pending.

Then plugged in local analog cable feed via VCR (couldn't get my Tosh to handle the cable signal - problem for another day) and was AMAZED by SD PQ. One of the attributes which attracted me to this model was early reports of good SD PQ. I have a 2001 vintage Tosh HD RP and it was painful to watch SD material. Not so with this NEC.

As reference I spent many hours auditioning the Fuji 50in plasma and was about to pull the string on it when the NEC reports began filtering in. Local Magnolia had the Fuji nearly adjacent to a Panny 50in, which enabled good visual comparison. There was also a 50in Pio, but it was on the other side of the store. They also had ability to route an undivided HD feed to each set. The Fuji PQ was remarkable, subtle yet lifelike. The Panny PQ was also excellent, though a bit more "aggressive". I don't have the benefit of side-by-side among the Fuji, Panny, and NEC, but IMO the NEC PQ ranks right in this company for HD and perhaps slightly better on SD material.



Great ,
I am glad my advice turned out right for you :D :D .

Added a logitech 890 remote my growing home theater .
Ebay has it for reasonable price compared to the other retailers .

thanks you. :)

The biggest problem for me is buying the unit site unseen. NEC plasmas are typically not carried by any of the big retail chains and the only dealers I have been able to find in the Seattle area are professional sound and video or small home theater contractors, which typically don't have plasmas on display. I have to admit the people that bought this plasma have a lot more guts than me buying one without first seeing a display unit, however the good news is that everyone that has bought one seems to be very happy.

However if anyone has a 50XR5 in the Seattle area that is willing to show it off, I am more than willing to trade it for some home theater consulting, help in basic calibration and/or a 12-pack! ;)

I have to admit the biggest problem for me is buying the unit site unseen. NEC plasmas are typically not carried by any of the big retail chains and only dealers I have been able to find in the Seattle area are professional sound and video or small home theater contractors which typically don't have plasmas on display. I have to admit the people that bought this plasma have a lot more guts than me buying one without first seeing a display unit, however the good news is that everyone that has bought one seems to be very happy.

However if anyone has a 50XR5 in the Seattle area that is willing to show it off, I am more than willing to trade it for some home theater consulting, help in basic calibration and/or a 12-pack! ;)
Couldn't agree more. Having said that, for brands which don't frequent the B&Ms there is usually a group who buy it without auditioning. With these forums, those folks can offer reviews and information to shape decisionmaking for the rest of us. But nothing really substitutes for the real thing...up close and personal.

In my case, I bought largely on the come except for a 60min audition of last years NEC 42in model at an HT installers showroom. I searched far and wide for someone with the 50, last years model or otherwise. Even in SOCAL I couldn't find one. I researched reviews on last years NEC models to identify "areas for improvement". I happened into the 42in model just by accident as I was there for another matter. The 42 did provide a baseline for my decision and info from this and other forums helped me look for certain attributes, good and bad.

A risk of following the early returns is potential tendency to minimize issues, so as to not appear premature in buying before previewing. I don't sense that as a problem in this forum but have seen this phenomenon before with other products/forums. There are some fairly direct and knowledgeable people in here, a good combination for research.

By now I expected to be the happy owner of a 42XR4 panel-- I ordered from Chris on 12-29-05. The shipment made it from New York to Birmingham via Watkin's arriving on 1-4-06 where they were then supposed to transfer it to another freight company for the local delivery. But as of today Watkin's informed me that they don't know where it is-- the consolation they offered me was that it should show back up in a day or two!
:)

The order I placed with Chris Took a whole 3 days to get to me. That might have hade something to do with my buying it on a friday:) Don't sweat it man. Good things (like the great customer service and support I got even on things I didn't buy from him) are worth the wait! Enjoy your new 42!!! and let us know how it turns out..

:)

The order I placed with Chris Took a whole 3 days to get to me. That might have hade something to do with my buying it on a friday:) Don't sweat it man. Good things (like the great customer service and support I got even on things I didn't buy from him) are worth the wait! Enjoy your new 42!!! and let us know how it turns out..

I share your appreciation for his customer service commitment-- while the bungling of my delivery is unfortunate and has been disappointing, it was a matter outside of his control and he's doing what he can to make up for my inconvenience. As far as I know the original panel has not yet been located, at least I haven't been notified if it has-- but in the meantime Chris is sending a second panel via an alternate carrier-- whichever arrives first I am to accept, whichever arrives second I am to reject. Besides that he's throwing in some cables and cleaner.

On a side note, I unpacked my Chief PNR-2042 mount today which arrived earlier this week. It was missing the custom interface bracket designed to fit the NEC. Called Chief and they are supposed to be overnighting the missing part.

jmhillrph,
Great companies, both of them, great service !!
After 15 years in the US I still am astonished with customer service here. Compared to Italy it is just mind boggling. Italy is just the 4th world...and unfortunately for many other reasons as well.

This is for all you XR5 owners out there.

Could you give me some idea as to the picture quality when watching DVDs? I just bought and returned a Dell W5001C and was extremely displeased with the shadow detail on it; there was excessive posterization / false contouring that no amount of tweaking or source changes could fix. It was visible both in HD feeds and on DVDs, but it was especially pronounced on the latter. I have a fairly sizeable DVD collection and it's extremely important to me to have the best possible picture quality when watching them.

Everything you guys have said about the 50XR5 has made it my current front-runner in the war for my money, but I was hoping you could give me some more feedback on how well it handles DVDs, especially in the area of shadow detail. Also, could you please let me know what DVD player you're using? (I get the feel I'll see a lot of Panasonic S97's ;-)).

Thanks for your help!

I would say almost stunning.
No problems with shadows here .
I am using a OPPO HD DVD player.

How visibile are the cables on the right side of the display? I think it makes more sense to have cable connections at the bottom or back, rather than the right side.

This may kill the deal for me.

Anyone know how this model compares to NEC's last model the XR4? I ask because I'm going to a place that has an XR4A on display to see what these NEC plasmas actually look like before deciding on the XR5A.

How visibile are the cables on the right side of the display? I think it makes more sense to have cable connections at the bottom or back, rather than the right side.

This may kill the deal for me.

yeah, I was wondering the same. If you are looking at the display, do the cables come out the right side or the left? Can someone post a picture of their ratz nest of cables plugged in?

Hi All,

1. When hooked up through the VGA connector to my HTPC (running at 1368x768) I expected 2 pixels of overscan, but i actually see a 2 pixel gray border around the entire image. It's hardly noticeable, but i am concerned about image burn-in for the border. Anybody else have it hooked up through vga?

2. I plan on hooking up my HTPC through the DVI out -> hdmi in (just need to get an adapter) and was wondering what resolutions the NEC will accept over the HDMI inputs? Will i be able to run 1368x768 over the HDMI?



OK, i've answered 2 of my questions...

1. 1368x768 is not supported over the vga connection. RTFM. can do 1360x768 or 1376x768 and a whole host of others. However, i could never get it perfect, always missing a pixel or two on the sides - certainly good enough - but ... decided to try hdmi...

2. DVI->HDMI produces a stunning picture. Went from "wow, that's a great picture" to "OMG! That's amazing." However, you are limited to "standard" hd resolutions. I settled on 1280x720. Just slightly overscanned which doesn't bother me at all - no unused part of the display, so no worries about strange burn-in.

---

On a side note, as for the "mess of cables" going to the set, all of the cables are easily hidden behind the set (plenty of room from where the connections are made to the edge of the set). Unless you walk to the side of the set, you won't see any cables. Just be neat with your cable management and you can hide everything nicely!

Jeff

yeah, I was wondering the same. If you are looking at the display, do the cables come out the right side or the left? Can someone post a picture of their ratz nest of cables plugged in?


as dcypher says, it is only noticeable if you go to the side or have a room where you can see the side (like mine unfortunatley). they do make a cover however which covers the cables. It looks seemless with the cover on (I posted a pick a couple of pages back). Also, having the cable on the side is actually much more convenient than on the bottom.

If you are all really sweating the cables on the side of the panel, you can also get the optional Input Terminal Cover from NEC. It basically snaps on after you've connected all of your cables, and looks like a smooth finish like the rest of the back of the NEC.

I have a question to those who purchased a wall mount for your NEC. Did you purchase the wall mount from NEC, or a third-party? Reasons why you did one or the other and regrets if any?

a question and a comment.

other than frame, warranty and inputs, are the 50xm5 and 50xr5 identical (glass, guts, etc.)?

a dealmaker for nec over panny displays is the nec's reputation for reliability and performance at elevation. this is important for anyone living above 6400' in elevation (or anyone who may be moving to a higher elevation).

what the warranty like with NEC? is it like pio where you have to purchase from an authorised reseller or more like panny where they dont care?


NEC will honor the warranty as long as it is purchased by an authorized dealer (whether that be online or in store). You can call them to confirm a dealer is authorized or I think someone posted a link to an NEC operated site that you can check various dealers on.

If you are all really sweating the cables on the side of the panel, you can also get the optional Input Terminal Cover from NEC. It basically snaps on after you've connected all of your cables, and looks like a smooth finish like the rest of the back of the NEC.

I have a question to those who purchased a wall mount for your NEC. Did you purchase the wall mount from NEC, or a third-party? Reasons why you did one or the other and regrets if any?

I am using a Mustang mount. I don't have the model# handy, but if Chris Majores pops in, he'll know. This one was recommended by Chris - the vertical distance on the 50XR5 mounting holes is pretty big, many of the universals won't work on the NEC without an adapter plate. Very rigid, good build quality and finish, plenty of horizontal adjustment once on the wall. Only regret, bags of screws were mis-labeled. Other than that, I'm very happy with it.

Dave

Dave,

Would you happen to know the web site address for Mustang mounts?

Dave

I have a question to those who purchased a wall mount for your NEC. Did you purchase the wall mount from NEC, or a third-party? Reasons why you did one or the other and regrets if any?

I was able to use my existing Sanus VMPL2 mount with this unit. I like this mount since it is one of the lower profile models out there so that the TV matches the depth of my Mythos speakers.

The NEC has quite a bit of flexibility to accomodate many mounts

OK, i've answered 2 of my questions...


2. DVI->HDMI produces a stunning picture. Went from "wow, that's a great picture" to "OMG! That's amazing." However, you are limited to "standard" hd resolutions. I settled on 1280x720. Just slightly overscanned which doesn't bother me at all - no unused part of the display, so no worries about strange burn-in.

Jeff


Earlier in this thread cpcat mentions successful native rate input from a lumagen with very specific timings and others mentioned direct confirmation from NEC support that it is possible to input native rate via HDMI. Perhpas it's a problem with getting the right settings with your video card or as your running DVI-HDMI perhaps the HDMI interface doesn't support native rate when the HDMI is running in DVI compatability mode... ( a more concerning issue for HTPC users)

Can anyone test or verify this?

/Rob
possible soon to be XR5 orderer

2. DVI->HDMI produces a stunning picture. Went from "wow, that's a great picture" to "OMG! That's amazing." However, you are limited to "standard" hd resolutions. I settled on 1280x720. Just slightly overscanned which doesn't bother me at all - no unused part of the display, so no worries about strange burn-in.

---

Jeff

Native resolution (1365 x 768) is easy via HDMI on this display as is 1:1 mapping. Here's an excerpt from my earlier post:

Well, I've been "working" hard all day.

I found that 1:1 mapping was a snap. I was making it too hard. Here are the timings (obtained from NEC secondhand) via Lumagen VisionHDP through HDMI:

VTOT 788 HTOT 1526
VACT 768 HACT 1365
VSYN 4 HSYN 50
VFRN 4 HFRN 51

V freq. 60.00 Hz
H freq. 47.20 Hz

Make sure RGB select in setup menu is set to "auto"
Disable orbiting in PDP saver menu
Set image adjust values all to zero.
That's it. Double check signal info in the menu and it should read 1365 x 768 and memory 18.

V-line and H-line patterns via the Lumagen test patterns are perfect one-pixel rows.

Native resolution (1365 x 768) is easy via HDMI on this display as is 1:1 mapping.
<snip>


This statement contradicts what is documented. Please pages En-2, En-3, and En-4 in the Model Information document (link to PDF below.)

For HDMI the document only lists the standard resolutions (page En-2.) For RGB input (via the RGB DB connecter I presume,) it lists myriad other video modes and timings (pages En-3, En-4.)

Do you have some inside information from NEC to corroborate your HDMI results? Is it possible the output from your scaler is being re-scaled by the set without your knowledge?

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/ModelInformation/50XR5A.pdf

[eom]

This statement contradicts what is documented. Please pages En-2, En-3, and En-4 in the Model Information document (link to PDF below.)

For HDMI the document only lists the standard resolutions (page En-2.) For RGB input (via the RGB DB connecter I presume,) it lists myriad other video modes and timings (pages En-3, En-4.)

Do you have some inside information from NEC to corroborate your HDMI results? Is it possible the output from your scaler is being re-scaled by the set without your knowledge?

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/ModelInformation/50XR5A.pdf

[eom]

Hmmm. Not quite sure how to respond to that. Maybe a copy of an email I received from NEC will help to convince you:

Charles,

Hi Charles, Thank you for conta contacting NEC! In regards to your inquiry the 50XR5 will accept the 1365x768 on the HDMI inputs. Also, the 50XM5 and 61XM4 will accept 1365x768 on the DVI input as well. Best Regards NEC VSD Customer Service/Technical Support 1-800-836-0655

Thank You,
NEC Visual Systems Support Team

To access your support request online, click on this link: http://www.necvsd.com/supporttracker/tracker.php?track_id=5367

Hmmm. Not quite sure how to respond to that. Maybe a copy of an email I received from NEC will help to convince you:

Charles,

Hi Charles, Thank you for conta contacting NEC! In regards to your inquiry the 50XR5 will accept the 1365x768 on the HDMI inputs. Also, the 50XM5 and 61XM4 will accept 1365x768 on the DVI input as well. Best Regards NEC VSD Customer Service/Technical Support 1-800-836-0655

Thank You,
NEC Visual Systems Support Team

To access your support request online, click on this link: http://www.necvsd.com/supporttracker/tracker.php?track_id=5367


No, it's not that I needed "convincing". I am questioning what really happens, of course based on "consumer" documentation, as I don't have this display (...yet...) ;)

It's curious that their published documentation does not indicate the panel's native resolution as a supported input format over HDMI. Based on your response from NEC, and your hands-on experience, it's clear that the display works with this setting.

[eom]

^^^Sorry, but I don't understand what you guys are discussing. What is the issue with HDMI? If it has the input what is the issue with connecting HDMI sources?

^^^Sorry, but I don't understand what you guys are discussing. What is the issue with HDMI? If it has the input what is the issue with connecting HDMI sources?

No issues with HDMI that I've found on this panel.

What we are discussing is whether the panel will accept it's native resolution. Digital displays have a native pixel resolution based on the physical pixel count which makes up the panel. For the 50 inch XR5, this is 1365 pixels horizontal by 768 pixels vertical or 1365 x 768.

Feeding the panel native resolution makes it more a passive participant and doesn't require the panel to "scale" the signal. Scaling involves converting the input resolution (eg. 1080i) to match the native resolution of the panel. This is required for all signals when displayed on a digital display. Even 480i (standard old TV resolution) will be scaled to 1365 x 768 and progressively displayed. You can also call this "768p". You could be even more precise and say "768p(60)" which means that an image with 768 lines vertical resolution is displayed at 60 Hz or 60 times per second.

If the scaling done outside the display is of higher quality, this can produce a superior image. This is where external scalers/processors such as the Lumagen VisionHDP, DVDO VP30, NEC TheaterSync, HD Leeza, Algolith Dragonfly, etc. come into play. This can also be done via HTPC (home theater PC) and video card.

Dave,

Would you happen to know the web site address for Mustang mounts?

Dave

www.mustangav.com These are more or less rebadged Omni mounts.



I was able to use my existing Sanus VMPL2 mount with this unit. I like this mount since it is one of the lower profile models out there so that the TV matches the depth of my Mythos speakers.

The NEC has quite a bit of flexibility to accomodate many mounts

NEC's have a different bolt pattern than most panels, therefor not all universal mounts will work with these units. Like the Sanus VMPL will not work with this panel for example.



other than frame, warranty and inputs, are the 50xm5 and 50xr5 identical (glass, guts, etc.)?

a dealmaker for nec over panny displays is the nec's reputation for reliability and performance at elevation. this is important for anyone living above 6400' in elevation (or anyone who may be moving to a higher elevation).

The XM and the XR are the same basic unit and use the same glass. The inputs are differnt therefor altering the "guts" somewhat.

The NEC are high alititude plasma's and are good up to at least 9840 feet.

hi, i was wondering if anyone who has one of the new 50xr5's also looked at the pioneer 5060? i am debating between the two, and any feedback or comparison between these 2 panels would be greatly appreciated.

No issues with HDMI that I've found on this panel.

What we are discussing is whether the panel will accept it's native resolution. Digital displays have a native pixel resolution based on the physical pixel count which makes up the panel. For the 50 inch XR5, this is 1365 pixels horizontal by 768 pixels vertical or 1365 x 768.

Feeding the panel native resolution makes it more a passive participant and doesn't require the panel to "scale" the signal. Scaling involves converting the input resolution (eg. 1080i) to match the native resolution of the panel. This is required for all signals when displayed on a digital display. Even 480i (standard old TV resolution) will be scaled to 1365 x 768 and progressively displayed. You can also call this "768p". You could be even more precise and say "768p(60)" which means that an image with 768 lines vertical resolution is displayed at 60 Hz or 60 times per second.

If the scaling done outside the display is of higher quality, this can produce a superior image. This is where external scalers/processors such as the Lumagen VisionHDP, DVDO VP30, NEC TheaterSync, HD Leeza, Algolith Dragonfly, etc. come into play. This can also be done via HTPC (home theater PC) and video card.

Thanks for the clariifcation, but does this mean I need an external scaler box to get the ULTIMATE image? Is the internal one not enough? Is it even debatable which is better? If there is a debate, chances are there is little to no difference, just like monster video cables vs. something much cheaper.

Native resolution (1365 x 768) is easy via HDMI on this display as is 1:1 mapping. Here's an excerpt from my earlier post:

Well, I've been "working" hard all day.

I found that 1:1 mapping was a snap. I was making it too hard. Here are the timings (obtained from NEC secondhand) via Lumagen VisionHDP through HDMI:

VTOT 788 HTOT 1526
VACT 768 HACT 1365
VSYN 4 HSYN 50
VFRN 4 HFRN 51

V freq. 60.00 Hz
H freq. 47.20 Hz

Make sure RGB select in setup menu is set to "auto"
Disable orbiting in PDP saver menu
Set image adjust values all to zero.
That's it. Double check signal info in the menu and it should read 1365 x 768 and memory 18.

V-line and H-line patterns via the Lumagen test patterns are perfect one-pixel rows.

Hmmm... I am glad you got this to work! However, i tried these settings and the monitor won't sync... ugh.

Here are my actual powerstrip settings:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1365x768=1365,51,50,60,768,4,4,12,72149,33

Generic timing details for 1365x768:
HFP=51 HSW=50 HBP=60 kHz=47 VFP=4 VSW=4 VBP=12 Hz=60

VESA detailed timing details:
PClk=72149.00 H.Active=1365 H.Blank=161 H.Offset=35 HSW=50 V.Active=768 V.Blank=20 V.Offset=4 VSW=4

Linux modeline parameters:
"1365x768" 72.149 1365 1416 1466 1526 768 772 776 788 +hsync +vsync

What's interesting is that when i switch to this video mode, the panel sees it ok (shows 1365x768 memory 18), but no image will display. I tried putting it in standby, then taking it out of standby, but no luck. FYI - I'm doing this from a HTPC w/ an NVIDIA 6600GT DVI -> HDMI.

Who did you talk to to get these settings?

Thanks,
Jeff

I received my 50xr5 yesterday, but I am having a hard time mounting it as I can't find the proper mounting bolts to use with the Sanus Plasma stand as per NEC spec sheet.



My question is do they make M4 X 14 bolts or this just a typo? I do have M4 x 12 bolts. Will using these compromise the installation. I don't want to take any chances.
Any help would be greatly appreciated

No issues with HDMI that I've found on this panel.

What we are discussing is whether the panel will accept it's native resolution. Digital displays have a native pixel resolution based on the physical pixel count which makes up the panel. For the 50 inch XR5, this is 1365 pixels horizontal by 768 pixels vertical or 1365 x 768.

Feeding the panel native resolution makes it more a passive participant and doesn't require the panel to "scale" the signal. Scaling involves converting the input resolution (eg. 1080i) to match the native resolution of the panel. This is required for all signals when displayed on a digital display. Even 480i (standard old TV resolution) will be scaled to 1365 x 768 and progressively displayed. You can also call this "768p". You could be even more precise and say "768p(60)" which means that an image with 768 lines vertical resolution is displayed at 60 Hz or 60 times per second.

If the scaling done outside the display is of higher quality, this can produce a superior image. This is where external scalers/processors such as the Lumagen VisionHDP, DVDO VP30, NEC TheaterSync, HD Leeza, Algolith Dragonfly, etc. come into play. This can also be done via HTPC (home theater PC) and video card.

Can you explain what you mean by scaling with a graphics card? I have an ATI 9600XT card with DVI. To get NR do i use VGA or DVI? If i'm using a Comcast HD STB and a PC connection, what is doing the scaling? Obviously i'd rather have the TV or PC do it but how would i bypass the STB hooked up thru component?

The pixel pitch of the 42XR4 is different from the 50XR5 and 61XR4. You'd expect the pitch to be different, but what about the "shape"?

42XR4 - 0.900mm X 0.671mm ( rectangular )
50XR5 - 0.810mm X 0.810mm ( square )
61XR4 - 0.990mm X 0.990mm ( square )

What effect will this have on the picture quality? Uneducated opinion is that the picture quality won't be as good.

I received my 50xr5 yesterday, but I am having a hard time mounting it as I can't find the proper mounting bolts to use with the Sanus Plasma stand as per NEC spec sheet.



My question is do they make M4 X 14 bolts or this just a typo? I do have M4 x 12 bolts. Will using these compromise the installation. I don't want to take any chances.
Any help would be greatly appreciated

As I have noted not all universal mounts fit the NEC displays. In a case like this it sounds like they did not include the proper bolts.

NEC 50XR5 Installation Guide Here (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/InstallationGuides/50XR5_IGv10.pdf)

First off there are two ways to mount this plasma to a universal mount. Using 8 4M bolts or using 4 8M bolts. When a mount allows I would use the 4 8M bolts.

According to page 4 of 9 on the PDF above, the bolts should be 8 of the 4M bolts and the hole depth is 14 M. Meaning that if the mount is lets say 3 M thick you will need a 16M bolt to use all the threads,or just about. If you find you are in a tough spot a longer bolt and a build up of washers will due. These diagrams are for specific NEC mounts, as you scroll through the PDF NEC has there specific mounts there. To use someone elses mount requires a little leg work in some cases including the possibility of running to the store and buying the right bolts.

The rule of thumb when using a universal mount on any brand TV:

First, do not force any bolts as they should thread in nice and easy. Second, when you can put the part that mounts to plasma up against it and thread in bolts and make sure they are not to long and not to short. Third, when there is a problem or general questions call the Tech support for that brand you have chosen, if they do not offer tech support you may be on your own.

In this case you have chosen an excellent manufacturer for the Plasma display and mount who both have tech support at 1-800-284-4484 (NEC) and 1-800- 359-5520 (Sanus).

Thanks for the clariifcation, but does this mean I need an external scaler box to get the ULTIMATE image? Is the internal one not enough? Is it even debatable which is better? If there is a debate, chances are there is little to no difference, just like monster video cables vs. something much cheaper.

I don't think this is what cpcat was saying. In fact, reading his other posts, I think he came to the conclusion that the scaler in the NEC might be even better than his external scaler. But, I don't want to put words in his mouth, so I'll let him answer that.

On another note, cpcat I think your right about the mid color temp for HD. It just seems to give it a bit more pop while still keeping skintones and images realistic. I've kept the settings I had for my dvd the same for now, as I like the film like picture it gives me, but I think my HD looks best with the following.

48 - Contrast
25 - Brightness
30 - Color
32 - Tint
Mid Color Temp (default gain and bias settings)
Theatre 1 Pic Mode
Gamma 2.2
Low Tone Auto
Pedestal 0

It's interesting I have found that on [Comcast] HD the Component & the HDMI cables setting appear to be the same in a darker environment. However, with SD the HDMI is superior.
Reflection- Bright room. Our living room is bright {glass brick windows} in the day there is some reflection when the viewing angle reflect the windows, but with the wall area is neutral (little/no reflection). I have no other plasma experience in this room for anti-glare issue. I am very happy with the over all performance of the xr5.
One Q? I do have: Memory setting, there are 6. However, if you switch from say Component to HDMI input. Do we get another set of 6 memory settings? So, if not, then some of the memory settings will have to be Component{dvd} and some Cable HDMI settings.
I will post some pictures up this weekend.
db

Is there any way to stretch 2.35:1 dvd movies to full screen? It looks like it is possible in the manual, but when scrolling through the stretch modes, I can't get a full screen (always end up with black bars on top and bottom). I'm connecting the DVD directly to the xr5 via hdmi at 480P (or 720P or 1080i)...

I'm in my break-in period, so I want to keep the screen filled at all times, but would love to watch some 2.35:1 dvds :D

Assuming your DVD player is set to 16:9 then I believe that 2.35 mode will zoom the image so that it fills the screen and side information is lost. This seems to be what happens on mine though I only received and hooked it up last night and haven't had a chance to play it. I wanted to get a jump on break-in so it's sitting on the floor with a 16:9 DVD looping. By the time I am able to get it mounted I will be over the initial 100 hour break-in and will calibrate the picture.

The manual for these panels states:


HOW LONG IS THE WARRANTY
Parts and Labor: Parts and Labor (Excluding the PDP) are warranted for (3) years from the data of the first customer purchase.
PDP (Plasma Display Panel): The PDP is warranted for (1) year from the date of the first customer purchase.


That doesn't sound like a 3 year warrenty to me. That sounds like 1 year panel and 3 year electronics.

The claims others have made in this thread of a 3 year warrenty seem misleading. The warrenty also has no mention of onsite support. It seems like carry in support.

If I'm wrong about this please show me a document that states otherwise.

The warrenty also has no mention of onsite support. It seems like carry in support.

If I'm wrong about this please show me a document that states otherwise.
I sent an e-mail to Visual Apex asking this question specifically, as well as the terms of the optional extended warranty.

Their answer:

"The 3yr is in home service, The extended warranty is also in home
service and starts after the manufacturers warranty.

The extended warranty also covers surge protection."

Warranty is definitely In-home. I belive you are correct in that the panel is only warranted for 1 yr. and everything else is 3 yrs. However, if you buy the plasma with a good cc you they will extend the 1yr portion, in essence giving you 2 yrs on the panel and still getting 3 yrs on everything else.

Thanks for the clariifcation, but does this mean I need an external scaler box to get the ULTIMATE image? Is the internal one not enough? Is it even debatable which is better? If there is a debate, chances are there is little to no difference, just like monster video cables vs. something much cheaper.

I'm still trying to figure out which I prefer. You can rest assured the NEC internal scaling is top notch.

The manual for these panels states:



That doesn't sound like a 3 year warrenty to me. That sounds like 1 year panel and 3 year electronics.

The claims others have made in this thread of a 3 year warrenty seem misleading. The warrenty also has no mention of onsite support. It seems like carry in support.

If I'm wrong about this please show me a document that states otherwise.

It's the best warranty offered by any pdp manufacturer. Fujitsu offers exactly the same warranty. Shop around a bit and you'll see.

You can believe it or not, Ripley. :) Doesn't much matter to me.

Hi again. I got to see a 2 year old NEC 50" Plasma today but didn't get the model #. Anyway, I liked what I saw very much even for a two year old panel. It was not calibrated and the only source I got to test were DVD's. One thing I was concerned about was the noticable lacking of blackness. It was dark grey on even the darkest scenes of Gladiator.

I'm sure the current XR5A is better, but I wonder by how much? I really wonder how it compares to say the black levels of the Pioneer? I know people say that Panasonics have the best blacks out there but I just have to down right disagree with this notion. In my world Pioneers rule all and perhaps the new NEC's are as good? For 2K less I think I can live with inferior blacks, to a degree, but can some of you owners comment on the subjective black level quality and make me feel better? :p

From necvisualsystems website:

Warranty Service

Whenever possible NEC Solutions (America), Inc. attempts to repair defective peripheral products rather than replace them. Customers should follow the appropriate steps outlined below to initiate a warranty service.

Repair:

Contact the product specific 1-800 # associated with the defective peripheral product. The customer must have the model #, serial # and original proof-of-purchase ready. The helpful technical service and support staff will attempt to correct any minor issues that might be causing the product failure. If the technical service and support representative is unable to fix the issue, the support representative will locate the nearest NEC Authorized Service Center for you to take the unit in for service.


If the unit is under warranty, the NEC Authorized Service Center will require the original proof of purchase to obtain the warranty service.


Sounds to me like warranty service is not provided on site.

hi, i was wondering if anyone who has one of the new 50xr5's also looked at the pioneer 5060? i am debating between the two, and any feedback or comparison between these 2 panels would be greatly appreciated.

You should know that the 5060 is a full-function tv that includes tuner(s) and speakers, whereas the NEC is a monitor with no built-in tuner or speakers. The NEC has a longer warranty and two HDMI inputs whereas the Pio has both a shorter warranty period and only one HDMI. The NEC will accept its native rate via HDMI, but I think the Pio does not. The Pio may come complete with a table stand; the NEC does not, but NEC makes one for extra cost. Both are great panels made in the same factory. We think the NEC electronics are unique to NEC despite the common origin, and probably the glass for the two plasmas is different also. You could not go wrong with either product. I own the NEC and have seen the 5060 many times in stores; side by side you probably would not see much difference in PQ on high quality source material. The NEC may have slightly better internal scaling and deinterlacing, so on some material, e.g., SD, the NEC may have an edge, but this is pure guesswork.

Hi again. I got to see a 2 year old NEC 50" Plasma today but didn't get the model #. Anyway, I liked what I saw very much even for a two year old panel. It was not calibrated and the only source I got to test were DVD's. One thing I was concerned about was the noticable lacking of blackness. It was dark grey on even the darkest scenes of Gladiator.

I'm sure the current XR5A is better, but I wonder by how much? I really wonder how it compares to say the black levels of the Pioneer? I know people say that Panasonics have the best blacks out there but I just have to down right disagree with this notion. In my world Pioneers rule all and perhaps the new NEC's are as good? For 2K less I think I can live with inferior blacks, to a degree, but can some of you owners comment on the subjective black level quality and make me feel better? :p An excerpt from my post from 2 days ago: One Hidef channel was an interview with dark background, so got immediate opportunity to examine black behavior. Solid blacks, though with decent detail. As some have said, brightness and contrast need to be lowered a bit, but color rendition seemed spot on. Session with AVIA pending.

I haven't done much HD viewing since. Doing breakin mostly with analog cable feed, zoomed to eliminate logos. The breakin instructions suggest avoiding large/abrupt constrast variations within the picture...xactly what you'd get with HD. Plus I had to juryrig my OTA feed to the TV (for now) to get the HD. Still experimenting with AVIA and DVDs as well. To this point everything I've seen on this plasma indicates solid black levels with decent detail. As I noted in same posting, the overall PQ on this NEC is definitely in the ballpark with the Fuji which I studied closely.

I have had the 42Xr4 in my home for an hour thus far - I hooked it up to dvd and HD cable and am using CPCat's settings until I have time to calibrate it properly. The colors are gorgeous, blacks are black, no dead pixels... The stand is very nice...

I have to publicly compliment Chris from Cleveland Plasma on his excellent customer service. Every step of the way, I knew that I was "more than a number" to Chris - unlike the situation with some other online vendors. In short, a very good buying experience.

I think the 5060 actually has 2 HDMI inputs.

Has anyone received any of the new NEC 42 inch plasmas yet? If so how are they?


You should know that the 5060 is a full-function tv that includes tuner(s) and speakers, whereas the NEC is a monitor with no built-in tuner or speakers. The NEC has a longer warranty and two HDMI inputs whereas the Pio has both a shorter warranty period and only one HDMI. The NEC will accept its native rate via HDMI, but I think the Pio does not. The Pio may come complete with a table stand; the NEC does not, but NEC makes one for extra cost. Both are great panels made in the same factory. We think the NEC electronics are unique to NEC despite the common origin, and probably the glass for the two plasmas is different also. You could not go wrong with either product. I own the NEC and have seen the 5060 many times in stores; side by side you probably would not see much difference in PQ on high quality source material. The NEC may have slightly better internal scaling and deinterlacing, so on some material, e.g., SD, the NEC may have an edge, but this is pure guesswork.

Thanks everyone for your answers. I can't think of any reason not to buy this model.

From necvisualsystems website:

Warranty Service


Sounds to me like warranty service is not provided on site.

That's a quote from the service policy section for NEC peripherals, not their plasmas. You can access the 50XR5 owner's manual on line and read the warranty if you want.

Well, it was only a matter of time. :)

There's not much that seemed adjustable in there. Either that or I could't figure out how to do it. What I was able to do was change "Limit PC" from "on" to "off" which solved my issue with my scaler providing a blander image. Apparently, the brightness/contrast of the display is limited for PC inputs from the factory. I assume this is to prevent image retention from PC users. It makes a big difference. I'm not sure if it effects non-PC inputs as I've not tried yet. I suspect it doesn't.

I've had to back my contrast all the way down to 37 and brightness to 28. This is with the black level set to video all the way from source to display.

There are alot of neat things in there including a clock which shows the number of hours on the panel. Mine read 136. I was surprised at that as I wouldn't have thought I had that many yet.

To access push [EDIT], [EDIT], [EDIT], [EDIT] on the remote.

*Access at your own risk*

Write everything down before changing anything.

To leave the SM, repeat the access code or turn off the display.

I have had the 42Xr4 in my home for an hour thus far - I hooked it up to dvd and HD cable and am using CPCat's settings until I have time to calibrate it properly. The colors are gorgeous, blacks are black, no dead pixels... The stand is very nice...

I have to publicly compliment Chris from Cleveland Plasma on his excellent customer service. Every step of the way, I knew that I was "more than a number" to Chris - unlike the situation with some other online vendors. In short, a very good buying experience.

Woohoo! Congrats Lisa!

Service menu codes may no longer be posted on the open forum. Please PM service menu codes to AVS member BruZZi, and he will make them available in a link in the Display Calibration Forum service menu sticky.

Thanks

Hmmm... I am glad you got this to work! However, i tried these settings and the monitor won't sync... ugh.

Here are my actual powerstrip settings:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1365x768=1365,51,50,60,768,4,4,12,72149,33

Generic timing details for 1365x768:
HFP=51 HSW=50 HBP=60 kHz=47 VFP=4 VSW=4 VBP=12 Hz=60

VESA detailed timing details:
PClk=72149.00 H.Active=1365 H.Blank=161 H.Offset=35 HSW=50 V.Active=768 V.Blank=20 V.Offset=4 VSW=4

Linux modeline parameters:
"1365x768" 72.149 1365 1416 1466 1526 768 772 776 788 +hsync +vsync

What's interesting is that when i switch to this video mode, the panel sees it ok (shows 1365x768 memory 18), but no image will display. I tried putting it in standby, then taking it out of standby, but no luck. FYI - I'm doing this from a HTPC w/ an NVIDIA 6600GT DVI -> HDMI.

Who did you talk to to get these settings?

Thanks,
Jeff

Sorry I didn't see this before.

I got the timings from a post on the Lumagen support forum (UK). Here it is from "Mark":

It turns out that the NEC does take 1365 x 768. See the quote from NEC below. The settings they refer to are (for the 60") HTOT=1526, HACT=1365, HFRN=51, HSYN=50, VTOT=788, VACT=768, VFRN=4, VSYN=4.

First we want to say that we are sorry you’re having such difficulties with your installation. Let’s clarify a few things before we answer your last question. In earlier Support Tracker emails it appears as though one of our past employees sent you some timings that they should not have sent. Those timings referred to the 1365x768 resolution. There is also some confusion back and forth as to what signals are supported and what are not, again we are sorry. In October 2005 NEC will introduce the TheaterSync video processor/scaler. The TheaterSync does have an output resolution choice of 1365x768 as stated in the color brochure. The following plasmas do (will continue) to support 1365x768 on the DVI input only. (PX-50XM4, PX-50XR4, PX-61XM3, PX-61XR3 as well as future models) You will not see any mention of this within the User Manual. Given the fact that it looks like you have tried programming the 1365x768 into your scaler you can try the following. Go to RGB Select and place it in “AUTO”. Go to the Source Information screen to see what signal the plasma is locking on to. It should say 1365x768 @ location 18. If it does not provide that exact information, the plasma is not receiving the correct signal. The 1365x768 timing was created for NEC and our respective OEM customers. Thank you for your understanding. Best Regards NEC VSD Customer Service/Technical Support 1-800-836-0655

[Updated on: Tue, 13 September 2005 06:51]

I subsequently emailed NEC and they confirmed that this also works via HDMI on the new models. That email is posted earlier in this thread.

My pixel clock reads 72078250 if that helps.

Have you double-checked your HDMI/DVI cable? I had one that I used for about a year with sync problems (which I blamed on my DVD/STB) until I replaced the cable and "poof" no more problems.

The next thing I'd do is either email or call NEC tech support for help.
You might also post over at the HTPC forum and see if anyone else might have an idea.

If you get it to work, you'll need to see my post on the Service Menu. Changing "Limit PC" from on to off will likely improve the picture (it did for me).

I think the 5060 actually has 2 HDMI inputs.
You may be correct, but I don't think so. If memory serves me, the 1130 ElitePro model does have two HDMI inputs, but the 5060 has one. Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but it is a very easy fact to check. I am too tired and it is too late at night to bother. I apologize if I temporarily misled anyone, should I prove to be incorrect.

Sorry I didn't see this before.
If you get it to work, you'll need to see my post on the Service Menu. Changing "Limit PC" from on to off will likely improve the picture (it did for me).

Cpcat, are you now saying that, having turned off the "limit PC" function, your external scaler (DVDO Iscan VP30?), set to native rate, I presume, now gives you a superior picture compared to going straight from source into the set itself?

I received my 50xr5 yesterday, but I am having a hard time mounting it as I can't find the proper mounting bolts to use with the Sanus Plasma stand as per NEC spec sheet.



My question is do they make M4 X 14 bolts or this just a typo? I do have M4 x 12 bolts. Will using these compromise the installation. I don't want to take any chances.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
I mounted my plasma on sanus platinum stand today . It looks great .I am very pleased with the overall look .
Which Sanus stand are using?.
You can try the bolts randomly to see which ones fit .

That's a quote from the service policy section for NEC peripherals, not their plasmas. You can access the 50XR5 owner's manual on line and read the warranty if you want.

I checked the 50XR5A Operation manual on line and found the Limited Warranty information on page 33. Still, I could find no reference to at-home service. Am I looking at the wrong document?

I am very interested in the 50xr5. However, the lack of a tuner has me somewhat worried. I watch SD via my D*** 811 through S-video, but also have basic cable for my local channels. I would need to use my VCR as a tuner for this. Can anyone tell me if the S-video composite input on the 50xr5 is seperate from the RCA composite input or does one overide the other? There seems to be only one audio input beside the composite input.

Thanks-Scott

I am either going to purchase the NEC 42XR4 or the Panasonic 50PHD8UK. Which one would you choose?

LisaM,

I'm really interested to know how you like your panel.

I've asked this before, but did not get a response.

"The pixel pitch of the 42XR4 is different from the 50XR5 and 61XR4. You'd expect the pitch to be different, but what about the "shape"?

42XR4 - 0.900mm X 0.671mm ( rectangular )
50XR5 - 0.810mm X 0.810mm ( square )
61XR4 - 0.990mm X 0.990mm ( square )

What effect will this have on the picture quality? Uneducated opinion is that the picture quality won't be as good. "

Any thoughts?

Thanks

The 5060 does have two HDMI's if it important to anyone:

Here are the specs:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/plasma/detail/page/0,,2076_287252631_274927463_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_Plasm aProductDetailComponent

You may be correct, but I don't think so. If memory serves me, the 1130 ElitePro model does have two HDMI inputs, but the 5060 has one. Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but it is a very easy fact to check. I am too tired and it is too late at night to bother. I apologize if I temporarily misled anyone, should I prove to be incorrect.

Cpcat, are you now saying that, having turned off the "limit PC" function, your external scaler (DVDO Iscan VP30?), set to native rate, I presume, now gives you a superior picture compared to going straight from source into the set itself?

Yes, that is my initial impression. I'm using the Lumagen VisionHDP, though, not the DVDO VP30. They both utilize the same Silicon Optix chip, though. The Lumagen is actually cheaper but has only 2 DVI inputs. It also has no internal audio delay but I've not had any lipsync problems.

The NEC internal scaler/processing is still excellent and is superior to my panny Th-50PX50U without a doubt especially with 720p sources. The scuttlebut is that these scalers will improve the overall PQ (if used to feed native and 1:1 mapped) on all plasmas except maybe the Fujitsu models.

I am either going to purchase the NEC 42XR4 or the Panasonic 50PHD8UK. Which one would you choose?

LisaM,

I'm really interested to know how you like your panel.

I've asked this before, but did not get a response.

"The pixel pitch of the 42XR4 is different from the 50XR5 and 61XR4. You'd expect the pitch to be different, but what about the "shape"?

42XR4 - 0.900mm X 0.671mm ( rectangular )
50XR5 - 0.810mm X 0.810mm ( square )
61XR4 - 0.990mm X 0.990mm ( square )

What effect will this have on the picture quality? Uneducated opinion is that the picture quality won't be as good. "

Any thoughts?

Thanks

This is very common with the 42 inch pdp (all manufacturers). The perceived resolution will actually be higher with the smaller screen size of the 42 vs. the 50 inch. The brightness/contrast is also likely a little better for the 42 simply due to the smaller screen.

cpcat,

Thanks for the information. I thought the pixel pitch might be something like that. What about the native resolution being 1024 X 768 vs. 1365 X 768? Will that make much of a difference? If you had the decision between the 42" NEC and the 50PHD8UK Pany, which would you buy?

cpcat,

Thanks for the information. I thought the pixel pitch might be something like that. What about the native resolution being 1024 X 768 vs. 1365 X 768? Will that make much of a difference? If you had the decision between the 42" NEC and the 50PHD8UK Pany, which would you buy?

That just depends on what size you want. If you are further than say 10 feet back, I'd say you'd definitely be happier with the bigger display.

The real choice would be between the respective models of the same screen size.

In that case, I'd say NEC but my experience is based on comparison of the two consumer models, not the commercial.

I'll be about 14 feet away at my normal viewing position. If I could fit the 50" NEC in my space, it would be in the mix. But, it's 0.3" too wide.

Thanks Again.

That's a quote from the service policy section for NEC peripherals, not their plasmas. You can access the 50XR5 owner's manual on line and read the warranty if you want.

The manual makes no mention of onsite repair.

The manual makes no mention of onsite repair.

En -33 of the PDF talks about not covering shipping charges . I guess it depends where you live . If you are close to a a NEC repair service center they may be able to do onsite.If you have to ship you will have to suck up the cost . Also if it is a big manufacturing defect or repalcement , they may consider refunding your shipping .
Bottom line NEC is a great company , You will seldom find major screwups. There warranty is stil the best .
This was not even a deciding factor for me in buying the TV. One Word PQ.
This display delivers it superb.

If warranty is a big concern , you ought to wait for NEC to strike a contract with Costco . As no one can beat there no money extended warranty ..

I never saw the commercial Panasonic only the consumer one in places like Circuit City where it was usually not set up right but still looked pretty good. From my one day of experience with the NEC, I think that the colors on the NEC are much better than on the consumer Panasonic. They tend to jump out at you. I found the colors on the consumer Panasonic to be a bit muted. (Bear in mind, this was only seen in stores - not on a properly set up model.)

I tend to watch only HD and dvds but I will watch an SD program tonight to see how the NEC does with SD. I suspect it will do quite well. I have my HD dvr set up to automatically stretch the very limited SD that I watch in order to fully avoid black bars.

If you like to tweak, I like the fact that the NEC gives you the ability to change individual color settings, etc... There are a ton of user settings which are available via the regular menu and do not require entering the service menu.

My 42 inch NEC is in the bedroom, where the viewing distance is 8-9 feet approximately. The size works well for me since the 50 would have been too wide for my space. However, I think that the 50 would have worked for my viewing distance. (I have a 55 inch CRT in the living room and I sit 9 feet from that so I am used to the combination of size/viewing distance.)

In short, I am already very pleased with my decision to go with the NEC.

I'll be about 14 feet away at my normal viewing position. If I could fit the 50" NEC in my space, it would be in the mix. But, it's 0.3" too wide.

Thanks Again.

Sounds like your choice is made. I'm sure you would have been happy with either.

Yes, that is my initial impression. I'm using the Lumagen VisionHDP, though, not the DVDO VP30. They both utilize the same Silicon Optix chip, though. The Lumagen is actually cheaper but has only 2 DVI inputs. It also has no internal audio delay but I've not had any lipsync problems.

The NEC internal scaler/processing is still excellent and is superior to my panny Th-50PX50U without a doubt especially with 720p sources. The scuttlebut is that these scalers will improve the overall PQ (if used to feed native and 1:1 mapped) on all plasmas except maybe the Fujitsu models.

You would have to think that the Lumagen or a DVDO or any of the top-line external scalers would also outperform the scaler built in to the Fujitsu. Otherwise, it would be/was silly not to spend the extra $ to buy the Fujitsu over the Pio/NEC/Panny.

Regardless of that and more importantly, do your observations indicate that shutting off that function ALSO improves the performance of the NEC when it is driven straight from a source via HDMI (minus the Lumgen)? Would it make any difference what source was used, e.g., DVD vs STB? (If so, one has to wonder why the factory used a default setting that actually compromises performance most of the time.)

So I pulled the trigger on the 42XR4 today with Chris from ClevelandPlasma. Nice guy and he was very helpful. Given what I've read about the superior scaler in the NEC plasmas, is there a particular DVD player that would work best? I purchased an LG LDA-511 because it upconverts. What are the pros and cons of sending 480, 720 or 1080i to the panel? I know my eyes will tell me, but I'm just looking for opinions on this combination. Thanks.

Does anyone know the setup code to program a DirectTV remote for the 50XR5 ? Those in the manual as shown below don't work. Thanks.

10030, 11704, 10019, 10497, 10056

Regardless of that and more importantly, do your observations indicate that shutting off that function ALSO improves the performance of the NEC when it is driven straight from a source via HDMI (minus the Lumgen)? Would it make any difference what source was used, e.g., DVD vs STB? (If so, one has to wonder why the factory used a default setting that actually compromises performance most of the time.)

I'll have to get back to you on that. I've just not had time to switch back and bypass the scaler. I had a home PC crash and have been having to deal with that all day. I suspect it won't make a difference as standard ATSC resolutions will be recognized as so and not as PC signals.

More reviews on the 42" would be much appreciated.

General reviews regarding image retention (i.e. leave the menu on for a few minutes) would be great too. thanks

Could someone with the 42" model give me the vertical dimension when mounted on the stand?

Thanks!

Ben

I have the Pio 5060. Received it the week before Christmas. I had actually ordered an xr5, but got tired of waiting. I haven't seen the xr5, but now that I 've spent some time with the Pio, I'm really, really happy with it. One of the reasons I got it over the Pannys or other models out there was because I wanted very good scaling/interlacing on SD material. It definitely delivers in this area, so those of you getting the xr5 based on its "superior scaling", I'd just like to say that I don't know how much better it can get. DVDs (basic Sony progressive DVD Player, not an "upscaling" model) look absolutely gorgeous. I don't know how much better HD DVD will be, but I'm rediscovering movie watching now. Standard def stuff on DishNetwork looks very good, although since I have the HD channels that's where I'm spending most of my time. My 3 or 4 months of research led me to the NECs and there are many things about the xr5 that appealed to mem, especially the all the adjustable settings. I would also like to hear any comparisons from people who have seen both, but let me tell you, the 5060 is a killer panel. The 5060 DOES have two HDMIs (on the back of the Media Receiver) and two component ins, if you count the one on the front of the MR.



Rod W.

You should know that the 5060 is a full-function tv that includes tuner(s) and speakers, whereas the NEC is a monitor with no built-in tuner or speakers. The NEC has a longer warranty and two HDMI inputs whereas the Pio has both a shorter warranty period and only one HDMI. The NEC will accept its native rate via HDMI, but I think the Pio does not. The Pio may come complete with a table stand; the NEC does not, but NEC makes one for extra cost. Both are great panels made in the same factory. We think the NEC electronics are unique to NEC despite the common origin, and probably the glass for the two plasmas is different also. You could not go wrong with either product. I own the NEC and have seen the 5060 many times in stores; side by side you probably would not see much difference in PQ on high quality source material. The NEC may have slightly better internal scaling and deinterlacing, so on some material, e.g., SD, the NEC may have an edge, but this is pure guesswork.

I think there is some break in for the electronics. The picure improves slightly after 100 hrs.
I only have sd signal and dvd.
It is good to great on SD and DVD compared my neighboursPanasonic.

So I pulled the trigger on the 42XR4 today with Chris from ClevelandPlasma. Nice guy and he was very helpful. Given what I've read about the superior scaler in the NEC plasmas, is there a particular DVD player that would work best? I purchased an LG LDA-511 because it upconverts. What are the pros and cons of sending 480, 720 or 1080i to the panel? I know my eyes will tell me, but I'm just looking for opinions on this combination. Thanks.

480i via HDMI/DVI would be best (in theory) and allow the panel to do the rest.
Following that, I'd feed 480p.

I have the Pio 5060. Received it the week before Christmas. I had actually ordered an xr5, but got tired of waiting. I haven't seen the xr5, but now that I 've spent some time with the Pio, I'm really, really happy with it. One of the reasons I got it over the Pannys or other models out there was because I wanted very good scaling/interlacing on SD material. It definitely delivers in this area, so those of you getting the xr5 based on its "superior scaling", I'd just like to say that I don't know how much better it can get. DVDs (basic Sony progressive DVD Player, not an "upscaling" model) look absolutely gorgeous. I don't know how much better HD DVD will be, but I'm rediscovering movie watching now. Standard def stuff on DishNetwork looks very good, although since I have the HD channels that's where I'm spending most of my time. My 3 or 4 months of research led me to the NECs and there are many things about the xr5 that appealed to mem, especially the all the adjustable settings. I would also like to hear any comparisons from people who have seen both, but let me tell you, the 5060 is a killer panel. The 5060 DOES have two HDMIs (on the back of the Media Receiver) and two component ins, if you count the one on the front of the MR.

Rod W.

I think you are right about the 5060 and 50XR5, they are two of the best plasmas available. I found they are about the same price when you include the stand for the 50XR5. Featurewise, the pros for me on the 5060 are the media receiver (to keep the cabling neat and accessible), IEEE488, and the tuner/speakers for possible future stand alone/wall mount use. On the 50XR5, it is the high quality swivel stand (although I wish is swivels more than 10 degrees), 3 year warranty, advanced adjustments and the looks, because I prefer the matte over the gloss black bezel of the Pioneer. However I believe it is going to come down to the picture quality including accurate grayscale, black level/detail, color accuracy, brightness, picture noise, SD quality and scaling.

I already tested the 5060 at a dealer with my AVIA disk, HQV Benchmark and a couple of my favorite reference DVD's and it passed with flying colors except a couple of issues. One is picture noise and the other is that green is off. It has a lot of dither noise, which kind of bothers me, but is seems tolerable at viewing distances over 8 feet. Also the green is more blue green. Other people also say it has an issue with judder, but I was not able to confirm it. But in all other respects, this is one awesome plasma.

I finally found a dealer that has a 50XR5 on display and although I can't see it side by side with the 5060, I plan to run it through the same paces as I did the 5060. This will probably not happen for another week but I will report back on what I find.

Something tells me this could end up being one hard decision :confused:

I second the lime green observation . I thought i was the only one with that observation . Sometimes the colors on the pioneer appear to be more synthetic than original . No doubt the sharpness of the picture is unbeatable . I am happy with my decision of NEC.

isn't it a pretty big deal that these displays can accept 1080p?

then owners of this display are set when 1080p HD-DVD players finally come out, right?

isn't it a pretty big deal that these displays can accept 1080p?

then owners of this display are set when 1080p HD-DVD players finally come out, right?

Well... It's nice, but 1080 (60p) is only accepted via analog (component and vga) and not via HDMI.

I'm not sure if it will be much of an advantage, especially considering the high quality deinterlacing inside the display (which may be better than what's in the BD/HD-DVD player). BD/HD-DVD will be native 1080/24p. It will be available ouput at 720p, 1080i, 1080 (24p) and 1080 (60p). It will probably look just as good output as 1080i or 1080 (24p). I'll wager 1080 (24p) is accepted via the HDMI input on the NEC but this is yet to be seen.

Regardless of that and more importantly, do your observations indicate that shutting off that function ALSO improves the performance of the NEC when it is driven straight from a source via HDMI (minus the Lumgen)? Would it make any difference what source was used, e.g., DVD vs STB? (If so, one has to wonder why the factory used a default setting that actually compromises performance most of the time.)


OK, I had a chance to check this. I have a bypass mode set in memory on my external scaler. Feeding the NEC 1080i, I couldn't see any difference when toggling the "Limit PC" function on/off in the SM. In addition, there's another function "Limit VD" which is default at *off* and can't be changed. Based on this, I don't think there's any contrast/brightness limiting applied to inputs which are ATSC video resolution. So basically, don't worry about it unless you are feeding the panel a non-ATSC resolution.

does the NEC have HMDI 1.1 or HDMI 1.2?

Well you guys convinced me. I just got off the phone ordering a 50XR5 from Cleveland Plasma.

For those interested in how SD looks on a 42XR4, I watched two reruns of SVU last night in SD and used Stadium to stretch the picture. The picture quality was quite good and using Stadium did not distort the picture at all.

Well you guys convinced me. I just got off the phone ordering a 50XR5 from Cleveland Plasma.

Chris, if you are still monitoring. Is Cleaveland Plasma an authorized NEC dealer? I am thinking mostly about the warranty, not the quality of your customer service (which, according to the posts here, is quite good).

Viventis, yes, he is. Check out (and click) the NEC authorized dealer logo at the bottom of his website.

I would not say I monitor, I participate. The information above is correct.

Chris .
How do i register my panel with NEC ?

Well you guys convinced me. I just got off the phone ordering a 50XR5 from Cleveland Plasma.

I think, it was a smart decision . You won't regret it . :D :D

Register your NEC HERE (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/SupportCenter/Registration/)

Also, anyone who wants to take a chance don't forget to register to win your Home Theater Makeover with NEC. That would be sweet if a forum member won this.

INFO HERE (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/FamilyRoomContest/entry.cfm)

Has anybody integrated the 50xr5's remote functions into their Universal Remote Control yet? I've got an RTI T3, but my master .cml file only has the 50xr4, which is missing a couple commands (like DVD/HDMI4). A .cml file with the 50xr5 in it would be much appreciated.

Has anybody integrated the 50xr5's remote functions into their Universal Remote Control yet? I've got an RTI T3, but my master .cml file only has the 50xr4, which is missing a couple commands (like DVD/HDMI4). A .cml file with the 50xr5 in it would be much appreciated.


I recently bought the new Logitech 890 remote . I had trouble integrating the xr5 all together . I am still working on getting it fixed . The 890 fails to learn from the XR5 remote via IR .

Big Mac...did you mean the 880? I've not heard of the 890. I have integrated the Harmony 880 pretty well into my system. I just chose the 50xr4 when it gave me the options (I guess the XR5 isn't fully in their system yet). It had everything I needed except the PIP functions. I have off tomorrow and am just going to have it learn those four buttons of the NEC remote quick and then I should be done. Maybe I'll give them a call to see if they can add the xr5 commands into their database too.

The 890 is Harmony's latest remote. It's very similar to the 880.

Big Mac...did you mean the 880? I've not heard of the 890. I have integrated the Harmony 880 pretty well into my system. I just chose the 50xr4 when it gave me the options (I guess the XR5 isn't fully in their system yet). It had everything I needed except the PIP functions. I have off tomorrow and am just going to have it learn those four buttons of the NEC remote quick and then I should be done. Maybe I'll give them a call to see if they can add the xr5 commands into their database too.

Thanks for the info, Tony. I still haven't taken the time to reprogram my 676. Maybe I'll wait another few days to see if your phone call does any good :D

So many things to do, so little time! Well, back to trying to get my stubborn 9800pro to sync on an HDMI input :(

Dave

anyone have or seen the new NEC PX-61XR4A? or is there newer out there? who makes this for them?

andy

Sorry I didn't see this before.

I got the timings from a post on the Lumagen support forum (UK). Here it is from "Mark":

[I]It turns out that the NEC does take 1365 x 768. See the quote from NEC below. The settings they refer to are (for the 60") HTOT=1526, HACT=1365, HFRN=51, HSYN=50, VTOT=788, VACT=768, VFRN=4, VSYN=4.

...snip...

I subsequently emailed NEC and they confirmed that this also works via HDMI on the new models. That email is posted earlier in this thread.

My pixel clock reads 72078250 if that helps.

Have you double-checked your HDMI/DVI cable? I had one that I used for about a year with sync problems (which I blamed on my DVD/STB) until I replaced the cable and "poof" no more problems.

The next thing I'd do is either email or call NEC tech support for help.
You might also post over at the HTPC forum and see if anyone else might have an idea.

If you get it to work, you'll need to see my post on the Service Menu. Changing "Limit PC" from on to off will likely improve the picture (it did for me).

Thanks for the info!
So, i was POSITIVE my cable would be fine - custom installer installed a quality HDMI cable, right? Well, I dragged the PC upstairs, plugged it in with a standard DVI cable w/ monster HDMI converter and Poof! absolutely perfect sync at 1365x768! Unreal how much time i spent on that...

So, what's the maximum length of an HDMI cable? I think the installed one is about 40 ft. long....

Thanks again,
Jeff

i think my comcast box recommends a max length of 25 ft for HDMI.

not sure what that's based on though.

Can someone measure the vertical dimension of the 42" NEC when mounted on the stand?

Thanks!

Aja1

Big Mac...did you mean the 880? I've not heard of the 890. I have integrated the Harmony 880 pretty well into my system. I just chose the 50xr4 when it gave me the options (I guess the XR5 isn't fully in their system yet). It had everything I needed except the PIP functions. I have off tomorrow and am just going to have it learn those four buttons of the NEC remote quick and then I should be done. Maybe I'll give them a call to see if they can add the xr5 commands into their database too.


I meant the 890 , which is quite similar to 880 except the IR support and option for more devices .I will change TV commands to XR4.

Aja1, when mounted on the stand, the set is approximately 27 inches high.

Thanks for the info!
So, i was POSITIVE my cable would be fine - custom installer installed a quality HDMI cable, right? Well, I dragged the PC upstairs, plugged it in with a standard DVI cable w/ monster HDMI converter and Poof! absolutely perfect sync at 1365x768! Unreal how much time i spent on that...

So, what's the maximum length of an HDMI cable? I think the installed one is about 40 ft. long....

Thanks again,
Jeff

That's a pretty long way. I think you can get a converter that will convert the signal and send it over fiber-optic for long runs. You then convert it back at the end of the run. I have no idea how much they cost. There are also DVI boosters for extending the range of the regular DVI cable.

This seems like some pretty good info for you: http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/HDMICopperFiber.php
Also see http://www.dtrovision.com/dlrp001.htm

Super Bowl is going to be good this year. :) Ordered my NEC 50XR5 with Cleveland Plasma.

Chris says he hasn't been out of stock of the NEC's yet... well this thread is reviewed by a lot of excited people. If that also represents the rest of North America then sheesh I hope NEC doesn't pull a Panny and start going out of stock in the near future.

I just want to say thank you to everybody that's been contributing to this thread... including the skeptics. Many of my props go to cpcat, thanks for the early on abundance of information. I wish I could be a good resource after I get my NEC, but I've read multiple posts that say I shouldn't ever come back to AVS after I get my gear. What up with that?? :p

What up with that?? :p

Congratulations.

If you wear gloves, mask and a blindfold while you're here the chances of catching upgradeitis are said to be reduced. :)

Aja1, when mounted on the stand, the set is approximately 27 inches high.


Thank you Lisa!

Chris,

Have you had a chance to compare the XR4 and the XR5 yet? Those two extra features... and the possible Pioneer glass 42" should make a difference in the black level. How do you see them, and how do they compare to the Panasonic counterparts?

Can anyone compare any of the nec models to the panny commercial models. from what I hear noone has info on the comparision of the models. I would love to hear how the commercial pannys match up seeing how they are different from the consumer models based on the great reviews for the commercial pannies and the average reviews for the consumer versions. Comparisons plz?

... and the possible Pioneer glass 42" should make a difference in the black level.

The new Pioneer glass supposedly improves on black levels for Pioneer, but it would only be an improvement for NEC assuming the current NEC glass gives only comparable black level performance to old Pioneer glass.

Based on what I'm seeing, this probably isn't the case, since the 50XR5 (undoubtedly NEC glass) seems to perform comparably with regards to black levels with 8th Gen Panny glass. The 8th Gen panny *might* go a little blacker if you float the blacks, but the NEC is definitely equal or even a little better than my Panny in "Cinema" mode which un-floats the blacks.

But still this is fromt the point of view of a panny consumer owner is there any body that could give his/her input with regards to the commercial panny which like I said before is supposed to be much better.

But still this is fromt the point of view of a panny consumer owner is there any body that could give his/her input with regards to the commercial panny which like I said before is supposed to be much better.

I don't know where you are hearing the commercial model is much better than the consumer model. They are essentially the same in terms of performance. They use the same glass, scaler, and internal electronics. The only difference is the looks and the software where the commercial gives you more adjustment room for calibrating than the consumer model does. That is why some people say the prefer the commercial in terms of performance (simply because you can calibrate to your tastes better). As far as blacks, number of colors, the gray scale levels, etc. you are getting the same thing.

OK, a few questions for the experts...
I've seen the NEC 42" advertised under a number of variations on the same model #...are they all the same? For instance PX-42XR4A and 42XR4?

Does NEC make a non-swivel stand for this TV? I don't really need the swivel because we already have a pull-out swivel tray in our tv cabinet.

Lastly, does anyone have any experience with the store brightandsleek? Just stumbled on their website and they seem to have good prices with no shipping and the few reviews I can find are positive.

Thanks

LisaM,

Have you seen any image retention with the 42XR4? It seems that the 50XR5 has more propensity for image retention than the Panasonics.

I've only had the 42 since Friday night but have been playing with it constantly. :) I have not seen any image retention at all thus far. I have had the NEC menu up several times as well as the menu from my 8300HD dvr. I also watched 2 hours of SD on USA, where the non-transparent logo was on screen most of the time. So far, so good.

That's a pretty long way. I think you can get a converter that will convert the signal and send it over fiber-optic for long runs. You then convert it back at the end of the run. I have no idea how much they cost. There are also DVI boosters for extending the range of the regular DVI cable.

This seems like some pretty good info for you: http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/HDMICopperFiber.php
Also see http://www.dtrovision.com/dlrp001.htm


OK, so wanna hear something strange? I took my HTPC back downstairs (still setup for 1365x768) and plugged it back into the original hdmi cable that didn't work, and you guessed it... it works perfectly. I'm scratching my head now. All i can think is that the cable wasn't plugged in properly or something...
Ahhh... finally, everything is working!

You mentioned something about a PC limit or something in the service menu... is this only for the RGB/PC connection or for HDMI as well?

Thanks,
Jeff

LisaM,

Thanks. I hope this continues to hold true. :) I'm really struggling with the decision between the 50PHD8UK and the 42XR4. Size vs. perceived better resolution and more connectivity. I've already got a stand that will work for the 50PHD8UK. So, the cost difference is only about $200. Would the 42" be big enough at a distance of 14'?

I've only had the 42 since Friday night but have been playing with it constantly. :) I have not seen any image retention at all thus far. I have had the NEC menu up several times as well as the menu from my 8300HD dvr. I also watched 2 hours of SD on USA, where the non-transparent logo was on screen most of the time. So far, so good.

Lisa, could you comment on the picture quality of the SD? Thanks

You mentioned something about a PC limit or something in the service menu... is this only for the RGB/PC connection or for HDMI as well?

Thanks,
Jeff

It seems to be for any non-ATSC resolution.
Check your PM.

doopstr2, I purposely watched two hours of SD (recorded on the 8300HD dvr) over the weekend at the request of a forum member. I turned off the stretch mode from the dvr and used Stadium on the NEC to stretch the picture. I found the PQ quite acceptable and could detect no distortion when using the Stadium mode.

Magnatest: At 14 feet, I would go for the 50. I sit 8-9 feet from the 42 NEC and think it is fine but I am used to sitting 9 feet from my 55 inch Mitsubishi Diamond CRT. I even toyed with buying the 50 inch NEC for the bedroom but I don't have a wide enough space to accommodate it. If my viewing distance was 10 feet, I would have figured out how to make the 50 work.

I don't know where you are hearing the commercial model is much better than the consumer model. They are essentially the same in terms of performance. They use the same glass, scaler, and internal electronics. The only difference is the looks and the software where the commercial gives you more adjustment room for calibrating than the consumer model does. That is why some people say the prefer the commercial in terms of performance (simply because you can calibrate to your tastes better). As far as blacks, number of colors, the gray scale levels, etc. you are getting the same thing.

From all the evidence I have seen, you are likely correct.

It's hard to imagine though how the commercial model Panny's have been so revered on this forum with the sup-par scaler that's in it, especially for 720p signals. Maybe this is unique to the 8th gen. panels and was a cost-savings measure.

Thats why for me it is so hard to believe that the scaler is so bad in the panny commercial plamsa because there has been so many great reviews from people who own multiple plasmas and love the pq and image on the commercial panny. Its just like one person telling you the image sucks when 100s tell you it rocks what gives.

N8G,

Do you know for sure that the Panasonic consumer models can do 4096 grayscale steps when fed via a digital input? I have heard conflicting views, but their own advertising seems to say that there are 2048 grayscale steps in the PX50/500. They now are advertising 3072 steps in the PX60/600 models. If the commercial panel is exactly the same as the current consumer model, then how can the PHD8UK's do the 14-bit processing on digital inputs? I have always understood that the commercial panels are where Panasonic puts their best electronics, and since the commercial models came out prior to the consumer models there was some lead time before the consumer sets would catch up.

I apologize if I made it sound I was positive that I knew there is no difference between the commercial and the consumer. I should have said, I can see no evidence there is any difference between the two.

In response to the 720p scaling issue, this information has just recently come to light and I hadn't heard many complaints from either consumer or commercial users before the HT mag review said there was a problem with it. It could be that this only happens over component and most people use HDMI/DVI so they don't see it, or more likely, that most people didn't notice this so there were no complaints. So I don't think this has been even remotely settled yet as to whether this issue does or does not exist with the comsumer models. All I know is that this board is filled with people that love the consumer panny as much as the commercial panny.

As for the 2048 versus the 4096 grey step processing, you can only get the 4096 with the "upgraded" HDMI/DVI board right? So if this this is the case it is possible they didn't use the upgraded board electronics in the consumer model.

Anyway, as I said earlier, my statements should have been prefaced with that this is my opinion based on all the research I have done on both of the Panny's and all the reviews I have read in this forum other places.

I apologize if I made it sound I was positive that I knew there is no difference between the commercial and the consumer. I should have said, I can see no evidence there is any difference between the two.

In response to the 720p scaling issue, this information has just recently come to light and I hadn't heard many complaints from either consumer or commercial users before the HT mag review said there was a problem with it. It could be that this only happens over component and most people use HDMI/DVI so they don't see it, or more likely, that most people didn't notice this so there were no complaints. So I don't think this has been even remotely settled yet as to whether this issue does or does not exist with the comsumer models. All I know is that this board is filled with people that love the consumer panny as much as the commercial panny.

As for the 2048 versus the 4096 grey step processing, you can only get the 4096 with the "upgraded" HDMI/DVI board right? So if this this is the case it is possible they didn't use the upgraded board electronics in the consumer model.

Anyway, as I said earlier, my statements should have been prefaced with that this is my opinion based on all the research I have done on both of the Panny's and all the reviews I have read in this forum other places.

The Commercial models (8UK series) all have the capability of showing 4096 shades of gray on HDMI and DVI. Either blade costs about $150 +/-. Having said this, the image rendered by the component input looks excellent. You should note that the Onyx series (which is a 7th. generation panel) AND the 50PX500U and similarly labeled products (which are 8th. generation panels) are only capable of showing 2048 shades of gray according to the information available on Pansonic's web site. Also according to the literature and specs available on Panasonic's web site, the 8UK panels are capable of displaying many more other signal types than the consumer models. Clearly, the scaler in the 8UK series is different from those used in Panasonic's consumer models. In fact, the scaler is "hyped" in Panasonic's 8UK promotional literature, something that is not done - to my knowledge - in their consumer literature.

I'm sure that the NEC is an outstanding panel, but so are the Panasonic 8UK's. That's why the Panasoinic 8UK's have been reviewed so favorably and are so hard to find - especially in the 42" and 50" varieties. (As someone once said, "You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")

OK, so wanna hear something strange? I took my HTPC back downstairs (still setup for 1365x768) and plugged it back into the original hdmi cable that didn't work, and you guessed it... it works perfectly. I'm scratching my head now.

Jeff;

Are you using an ATI card? The Cat drivers since about 5.4 have a nasty habit of dropping the DVI signal. Also, are you using Powerstrip? If so, would you be willing to share your working configs? Either way, glad to hear you're back up and running!

Dave

Also according to the literature and specs available on Panasonic's web site, the 8UK panels are capable of displaying many more other signal types than the consumer models. Clearly, the scaler in the 8UK series is different from those used in Panasonic's consumer models. In fact, the scaler is "hyped" in Panasonic's 8UK promotional literature, something that is not done - to my knowledge - in their consumer literature.


Which makes sense they can receive many different signals because they are commercial model much more likely to be driven by a PC. I don't see how this fact makes them clearly different scalers.

They are most likely the same IMO. And the only "negative" review of the consumer panel is the recent HT mag review where he says the 720p looked softer than the 1080i on component. Not exactly a condemnation.

Anyway, we should move anymore discusion of the consumer versus commercial panny's to a new thread if we want to continue this dicussion since this thread is for the NEC's. Agreed?

well.. I'd like to possibly get a NEC 61XR4, but it can't be seen anywhere, at least around me. does ANYONE have this set or have seen one and can comment? I was looking at the current Pioneer Elite 61", which is over a year old, but this is supposed to be that much better. any comments, please?

so close to buying the 42xr4.

i'd love to be able to go see the damn thing! but not really feasible, even in san francisco.

if other 42" owners (besides Lisa?) could chime in, i'd be grateful.

well.. I'd like to possibly get a NEC 61XR4, but it can't be seen anywhere, at least around me. does ANYONE have this set or have seen one and can comment? I was looking at the current Pioneer Elite 61", which is over a year old, but this is supposed to be that much better. any comments, please?


While the Pioneer Elite is a good panel, I don't think that anyone would suggest that it is as "current" as the new NEC 61". As the Pioneer uses NEC glass, I would think that you would be better off with the new NEC as it uses the newer generation glass, at least when compared to the present Pioneer Elite unit. Also, there has been some discussion about Pioneer purchasing NEC's plasma unit. My understanding is that Pioneer simply purchased one NEC plasma factory, but not NEC's plasma unit. So, there may not be any assurance that the new Pioneer units will continue to have the same glass as the newer NEC units.

If this was my decision to make, I'd have no hesitation in purchasing the NEC over the Pioneer.

Good luck with your purchase.

It looks like there is an event in San Francisco tomorrow where you can see these new models. look at the NEC Visual Systems website.

They are most likely the same IMO. And the only "negative" review of the consumer panel is the recent HT mag review where he says the 720p looked softer than the 1080i on component. Not exactly a condemnation.



I noticed the 720p softness right off. It's really not subtle if you have seen it done well from another source. The problem is that so many folks out there just think "ah, it's just that 'inferior' 720p signal, look how good it is with 1080i", when in reality they can both look stunning when done properly.

Alright, I'll move on now.

It looks like there is an event in San Francisco tomorrow where you can see these new models. look at the NEC Visual Systems website.

Went to the site. No details given that I could find (or did I miss something)? Can you post a link that gives details... like where it takes place?

TIA

shane

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/NewsAndmediaCenter/Event/?event=ad1489f8-a059-40b2-ad9e-97f50fe7be65

No listing of location. You might have to call.

I noticed the 720p softness right off. It's really not subtle if you have seen it done well from another source. The problem is that so many folks out there just think "ah, it's just that 'inferior' 720p signal, look how good it is with 1080i", when in reality they can both look stunning when done properly.

Alright, I'll move on now.

I was going to move on until I saw your post, but I have to comment that I've studied lots of competing panels and all kinds of sources (including another HDTV panel from another manufacturer in my house - a Sharp LCD which excels at 720p) and I have not noticed ANY softness at 720p on the 65ph8UK.

Now, I'll move on as well. <smile>

I don't think it's open to the public, but I did find the address on the Crestron website:
Jan 17 - Jan 17, 2006
NEC Partner Showcase
Old Federal Reserve Building
San Francisco, CA

It's real tempting since I'm leaning towards getting this panel myself.

Thanks for the info!
So, what's the maximum length of an HDMI cable? I think the installed one is about 40 ft. long....


Does HDMI accommodate long cable lengths?
Yes. HDMI technology has been designed to use standard copper cable construction at long lengths. In order to allow cable manufacturers to improve their products through the use of new technologies, HDMI specifies the required performance of a cable but does not specify a maximum cable length. Cable manufacturers are expected to sell reasonably priced copper cables at lengths of up to 15 meters. As semiconductor technology improves, even longer stretches can be reached with fiber optic cables, and with active cable technologies such as amplifiers or repeaters.


So that's around 49 feet.

More info at: http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp

.

While the Pioneer Elite is a good panel, I don't think that anyone would suggest that it is as "current" as the new NEC 61". As the Pioneer uses NEC glass, I would think that you would be better off with the new NEC as it uses the newer generation glass, at least when compared to the present Pioneer Elite unit. Also, there has been some discussion about Pioneer purchasing NEC's plasma unit. My understanding is that Pioneer simply purchased one NEC plasma factory, but not NEC's plasma unit. So, there may not be any assurance that the new Pioneer units will continue to have the same glass as the newer NEC units.

If this was my decision to make, I'd have no hesitation in purchasing the NEC over the Pioneer.

Good luck with your purchase.

Thanks so much for the response. I called NEC, and they can't seem to answer much in regard to the generation of glass they are using in this model. But they did say it is their newest. I would agree it is far more "current" than the Pioneer. My biggest hesitation is not being able to see the screen, so I'd be going off others testimony's. Looks like as big as this forum is, no one owns one of these baby's yet.

does anyone have the newest 50" they compared to the Pioneer Elite Pro-1130? or the Panasonic Top of the lines?

thanks all for your help. Buying sight unseen is nuts! LOL .. by the way, I've gotten some very good pricing from Plasma Concepts. anyone have any experience with them, or could you recommend anyone else?

Several people in this thread have purchased from Chris from Cleveland Plasma. I, for one, can definitely recommend Chris. I would buy from him again.

I agree with you - buying something this expensive sight unseen is seriously nuts. I am so pleased to be FINISHED with my decision!

I don't think it's open to the public, but I did find the address on the Crestron website:
Jan 17 - Jan 17, 2006
NEC Partner Showcase
Old Federal Reserve Building
San Francisco, CA

It's real tempting since I'm leaning towards getting this panel myself.




I don't see anything that would suggest that it isn't open to the public....

Unless I hear otherwise I'm in!

What random timing! I'm seriously about the pull the trigger within 48 hours.

Swwweeeet.

Thanks so much for the response. I called NEC, and they can't seem to answer much in regard to the generation of glass they are using in this model. But they did say it is their newest. I would agree it is far more "current" than the Pioneer. My biggest hesitation is not being able to see the screen, so I'd be going off others testimony's. Looks like as big as this forum is, no one owns one of these baby's yet.

does anyone have the newest 50" they compared to the Pioneer Elite Pro-1130? or the Panasonic Top of the lines?

thanks all for your help. Buying sight unseen is nuts! LOL .. by the way, I've gotten some very good pricing from Plasma Concepts. anyone have any experience with them, or could you recommend anyone else?

Based on some previous posts it looks like the 50XR5 uses the same glass as last years 50XR4 model. I also believe this might be the case with the 61XR4 but I have heard that the 42XR4 is all new and it shares the same glass technology as the latest Pioneer. However as long as it competes well in areas such as black level with the Panasonic or Pioneer, I don't really care what generation glass it has.

However this is too new a product and such a big purchase, that I definitely wanted to see the unit myself. But finding a dealer that has the NEC on display proved to be very challenging. NEC plasmas are not carried by any large retailers like Bestbuy or CC, but there are numerous professional AV and Home Theater Installers that do. I must have called over 12 of these type of dealers and none had, or even planned, to have one on display. I finally got a hold of the local distributor and he knew of only one dealer that had it on display but it was about 100 miles from where I live in Seattle. Anyway, I made an appointment to see it this coming weekend and feel the trip will definitely be worth the trouble. My recommendation is that if you want to see one in person, call the NEC local distributor in your area. Maybe NEC customer support will tell you who that is or you call some of the local dealers listed on the NEC site to find out who is the local distributor.

If the 50XR5 ends up being as good as the owners are saying, it sounds like NEC could sell 10 times more that they are currently just by getting some larger retailers to handle the product.

I am a little concerned that the glass on the 50XR5 is that same as last years 50XR4 model. However as long as it competes well it areas such as black level with the Panasonic or Pioneer I don't really care what generation glass it has.

However this is too new a product and such a big purchase, that I definitely wanted to see the unit myself. But finding a dealer that has the NEC on display proved to be very challenging. NEC plasmas are not carried by any large retailers like Bestbuy or CC, but there are numerous professional AV and Home Theater Installers that do. I must have called over 12 of these type of dealers and none had or even planned to have one on display. I finally got a hold of the local distributor and he knew of only one dealer that had it on display but it was about 100 miles from Seattle where I live. Anyway I made an appointment to see it this weekend and it is definitely worth it, but what a pain. My recommendation is that if you want to see one in person call the NEC local distributor in your area. Maybe NEC customer support will tell you who that is or you call some of the local dealers listed on the NEC site to find out who is the local distributor.

If the 50XR5 ends up being as good as the owners are saying, it sounds like NEC could sell 10 times more that they are currently just by getting some larger retailers to handle the product.


So, did you see the plasma or not yet? if so, did they have other brands to compare it to? what are your thoughts?

I don't know why so many people are fired up about the Panny Plasmas. I disliked everyone I've seen and I'd never buy one. Best one that I've SEEN is the Pioneer by far. So, after reading this thread I'm hoping the NEC's are more comparable to them than the Panny's. Please someone tell me they are.

I am a little concerned that the glass on the 50XR5 is that same as last years 50XR4 model. However as long as it competes well it areas such as black level with the Panasonic or Pioneer I don't really care what generation glass it has.


If the 50XR5 ends up being as good as the owners are saying, it sounds like NEC could sell 10 times more that they are currently just by getting some larger retailers to handle the product.


NEC just does n't do that .
I am not sure why ?
Even there computers are hard to find in B&M stores.
Not too many people know that NEC even makes cellphones.

http://www.dynamism.com/nec-l1/gallery.shtml

So, did you see the plasma or not yet? if so, did they have other brands to compare it to? what are your thoughts?

Sorry, I edited my post to make it a little less confusing. I won't see it until this coming weekend. However even I my feedback is positive, wouldn't you still want to see one yourself? That was my problem, there hasn't been one bad review on the 50XR5 yet in this thread, I still need to see one in person to make that final judgement.

Also the dealer only has the the 50XR5 on display. However I have already played some of my own demo material on a Pioneer 5060 at another dealer, which I will also play on the 50XR5 to make a comparison. Not as good as a side by side comparison, but it is the best I can do.

Sorry, I edited my post as it was a little confusing. I won't see it until this coming weekend. However even I my feedback is positive, wouldn't you still want to see one yourself? That was my problem, even though there hasn't been one bad review yet in this thread, I still need to see one in person to make that final judgement.

mHfnet,

You are one heck of a patient man !!
I could not resist and pulled the trigger, without seeing it . At that time this thread was only 3 pages old.
You prolly already own a big screen TV , and that may be a reason.
I do respect your decision of spending your money wisely & carefully and something like
picture quality in a TV is very subjective also.
Online research and unbiased customer reviews are gradually replacing the need to see these things in person.
That said , i do not regret my decision of buying without seeing and will encourage me in the future .

so close to buying the 42xr4.

if other 42" owners (besides Lisa?) could chime in, i'd be grateful.

Oysterhead,

I've had my 42xr4 for the last 3 days. Based on strong recommendations from other AVS users, and an endorsement from a local installer, I ordered it without previewing it in person.

And although it's currently "mounted" on two dining room chairs while I await the arrival of a stand, it is a phenomenal set. The black levels are impressive compared to a friend's commercial 42" Panasonic (sorry, don't know the model), and there has been no hint of an afterimage or burn-in, even with extensive use of the menu system.

SD quality, as others have stated, is much better than I thought an HD set would deliver, and the "stadium" setting distorts 4:3 signals less than other HD sets I've seen. The screen seems much less reflective than other plasma displays, although this is pretty subjective given the variety of lighting situations out there.

I concur with Lisa's glowing recommendation - this set is a keeper. Thanks to all of you who have shared your experiences with these new NEC sets - you definitely helped me make an informed decision.

Good luck.

So after having decided on the Panny 8UK, I found this forum and am just about ready to jump on the 50xr5. There is just one concern I have that I would like to ask first: I plan on using it with an HTPC (using mostly for movies and tv). I would definitely want to play video games on it, althought that would not be its primary usage. I've read the forum and issue of "burn in" and "after image". I'm not too worried about "after image" but "burn in" is a bit scary.

I know this has been discussed, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus. As this would be the only factor that would keep me from getting the NEC over the Panny, I just wanted to check and make sure that I won't have to be paranoid using the NEC.

Thanks in advance!

So after having decided on the Panny 8UK, I found this forum and am just about ready to jump on the 50xr5. There is just one concern I have that I would like to ask first: I plan on using it with an HTPC (using mostly for movies and tv). I would definitely want to play video games on it, althought that would not be its primary usage. I've read the forum and issue of "burn in" and "after image". I'm not too worried about "after image" but "burn in" is a bit scary.

I know this has been discussed, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus. As this would be the only factor that would keep me from getting the NEC over the Panny, I just wanted to check and make sure that I won't have to be paranoid using the NEC.

Thanks in advance!

I think the jury is still out. The XR5 hasn't been out long enough.

Here's the thing though. No matter which panel you get, you will still practice burn-in precautions if you're like me. You will be even *more* careful during the first 100 hours just like I did. It's therefore very unlikely you'll experience any burn-in in the first 100 hours as I haven't . After that, the overall chances of any permanent image retention gradually decrease (but you'll still be relatively careful, no matter what brand you have). So why use burn-in as a deciding factor?

Why would I use burn-in as a factor? I wouldn't unless I knew that I wouldn't have to worry about it with one brand vs the other.

If this isn't the case, then NEC here I come!

Thanks so much for the response. I called NEC, and they can't seem to answer much in regard to the generation of glass they are using in this model. But they did say it is their newest. I would agree it is far more "current" than the Pioneer. My biggest hesitation is not being able to see the screen, so I'd be going off others testimony's. Looks like as big as this forum is, no one owns one of these baby's yet.

does anyone have the newest 50" they compared to the Pioneer Elite Pro-1130? or the Panasonic Top of the lines?

thanks all for your help. Buying sight unseen is nuts! LOL .. by the way, I've gotten some very good pricing from Plasma Concepts. anyone have any experience with them, or could you recommend anyone else?

Wassy,

I had actually ordered from Bob at Plasma Concepts and had a great experience. I wouldn't hesitate to go to them at all.

Why would I use burn-in as a factor? I wouldn't unless I knew that I wouldn't have to worry about it with one brand vs the other.

If this isn't the case, then NEC here I come!

From everything I have read at AVS regarding burn-in, it is potentially a factor for all makes of plasma. You need to be careful, particularly during the first 100 hours, regardless of the panel's manufacturer. I strongly doubt that NEC is more susceptible to burn-in than Panasonic, Pioneer, Fujitsu, etc....

I have another question for the 42XR4 owners if you don't mind. What is the noise level like on it? Fan and/or buzzing? I think NEC says the 42 has a couple of db higher noise rating than the 50 so I was just wondering if it is noticable.

I haven't heard anyone complain about it, but my old CRT that just died had an awful buzzing noise that was really annoying during soft sequences so I want to avoid that if possible.

N8G, I just literally put my ear to the side and back of the panel and could not hear anything. I am having problems with my cable box making noise so I am definitely sensitive to it. The NEC is whisper quiet thus far.

LisaM,

I know you've already mentioned the great PQ on SD, but I'm just wondering how it compares to a high quality CRT. I spoke to HDTV techie who said not to buy any plasma if SD PQ is that important to me. He said to expect it not to be as good as any CRT.

I'm a little concerned because due to the limited HD programming available, most of my viewing involves SD. I'd feel pretty crappy if the PQ was noticeably worse on most of the shows I watch.

If a good quality CRT TV delivers a 10 out of 10 in PQ, what do you think the NEC would deliver? I know it's all subjective, of course.

If anyone else gets their 42" NEC XR4, please let us know about the SD PQ. Thanks.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave, I have a good quality CRT (a Mitsubishi Diamond 55 inch) on which SD looks decent. (Caveat: as a rule, I watch only about 10% SD although I have lately been recording old episodes of SVU and Criminal Intent off of USA in SD.) On the 42 inch NEC, I think that SD looks as good - if not better - than on the 55 inch CRT. Of course, part of that may well be due to the difference in screen size with the better picture being on the smaller screen.

I realize this is not important to most folks, but has anyone heard how the 50xr5 add on speakers sound. Not much power on board - 9W x 2. I do not want to have to fire up the HT to listen to the news, etc.