Thanks LisaM,

I'm not too familiar with all the techincal jargon, so correct me if I'm wrong, but your 55" Mitsubishi CRT is a rear projection unit, is it not? I have a 32" Panasonic GAOO, which is a direct-view CRT. My understanding, and I certainly stand to be corrected, is that a direct-view CRT offers better PQ than rear projection units. My SD PQ is amazing and that's what I'll be comparing the NEC plasma to. That's why I'm concerned (maybe overly) about the SD PQ with the NEC.

Nonetheless, I really appreciate your comments, thanks again. I'm hoping someone who gets an NEC 42 XR4 will be comparing the PQ to a high-end direct view CRT.

Again, thanks!
Dave

Sorry if this is a repeat question. Do the NEC 42 and 50 series 4 and 5 have direct access codes for the different inputs?? The remote as I recall only has a input select button. Thanks

Sorry if this is a repeat question. Do the NEC 42 and 50 series 4 and 5 have direct access codes for the different inputs?? The remote as I recall only has a input select button. Thanks

Yes, there is direct input access on the remote.

I just wanted to mention that the NEC rep at their display at CES indicated that the glass was the same as the previous models.

Sorry if this is a repeat question. Do the NEC 42 and 50 series 4 and 5 have direct access codes for the different inputs?? The remote as I recall only has a input select button. Thanks

I can only speak to the 50"...
Yes.

Jeff

I'm using crappy external speakers connected to the 50XR5, and it works fine for news in the morning - pleny of power.

I'd like to bother anyone with the full hex codes for selecting the DVD/HD4 input on the 50XR5. I have DVD/HD1, 2, & 3 from the 50XR4, but it didn't have DVD/HD4.

Much obliged,


Aaron

I'd like to bother anyone with the full hex codes for selecting the DVD/HD4 input on the 50XR5. I have DVD/HD1, 2, & 3 from the 50XR4, but it didn't have DVD/HD4.

Much obliged,


Aaron

Check this pdf from NEC which includes the specific hex for various functions including input DVD4/HD4.

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/InstallationGuides/50XR5_IGv10.pdf

Oysterhead and anyone in the San Francisco area: visit House of Music. They have 42xr4 and 50xr4 in stock as of last week. They also have Fujitsu fro comparison.

MG2000, been in there..... 50xr4 are older models, do no look like the NEC xr5 series. And when you go in there ask what they want for them $$$$$... and do not laugh it's not polite.....
db

Well after many months (years) of paralysis by analysis my 10 year old RPTV finally started acting up and the wife forced a decision to replace asap. Having lurked in the avs forums for several years I was planning on being an avs lemming and going for the Panny 8UK. As the need for an immediate replacement eliminates the panny as an option I deicded on the 50XR5 over the consumer Pio or comercial Pio. I eliminated the consumer Pio as I wanted native rate input so I could connect and outboard scaler if I find the need. The commercial Pio I've seen and since it's several gens back and gets poorer rating on performance than the NEC or Pannys over the past couple of years I ruled that out. (I have 3 PDP-503s in my office here as a ref)

Thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma I should have a XR5 in a few days. I'll submit my review once I've got it running.

Main use cases in order:
Pioneer DV-59AVi
modded xbox and xbmc
Direct TV (mainly SD at the moment)

/rob

I finally got a hold of the local distributor and he knew of only one dealer that had it on display but it was about 100 miles from where I live in Seattle. .

Where abouts is this dealer? I am interested in the 50XR5A. I am little south of you - Chehalis. Thanks!

Thanks LisaM,

I'm not too familiar with all the techincal jargon, so correct me if I'm wrong, but your 55" Mitsubishi CRT is a rear projection unit, is it not? I have a 32" Panasonic GAOO, which is a direct-view CRT. My understanding, and I certainly stand to be corrected, is that a direct-view CRT offers better PQ than rear projection units. My SD PQ is amazing and that's what I'll be comparing the NEC plasma to. That's why I'm concerned (maybe overly) about the SD PQ with the NEC.

Nonetheless, I really appreciate your comments, thanks again. I'm hoping someone who gets an NEC 42 XR4 will be comparing the PQ to a high-end direct view CRT.

Again, thanks!
Dave

If most of your viewing is going to be SD content, seriously consider an HD set as in most cases, it makes it look much worse simply because you are upconverting 480i to the resolutions of your new TV. I can't speak for the NEC, but I can't see how it can be better than an excellent SD CRT. I own a 35" SONY XBR SDTV and I have not seen one HDTV yet that can match the SD picture quality of this set. Perhaps an expensisve scaller can help a bit. To answer your question I can say SD on HDTV looks like a 6/10. Not quite 50% worse but pretty close.

Just checked out the NEC Partner event in San Francisco. Lots of nice stuff there including the 42xr4, 50xr5, 60xr5 as well as a 57" 1920x1080 LCD.

The cabinets on the new XR series are really nice. Much cleaner and classier than even the Pio Elite IMHO. Imagine a Panny Commercial that was dressed up a little. PQ on the 50" looked nicest to me, but I have to say that 42" was damn nice too.

Told the people at the door that I was representing my company rather than interested in the HT aspect so I didn't ask too many questions about resolutions and such. I mostly went to see what they looked like in person.

Verdict: Worth the price of admission over the Panny and Toshiba in looks alone. PQ was also excellent, although no side by side comparison available.

I'm seriously considering the 42XR4...has anyone here had any experience with the warranty extension service that comes with some credit cards? I just gave Visa a call and they said plasma tvs were covered and it would extend the NEC warranty by one year. So, that would be 2 years for plasma module and 4 years for other. (The phone rep didn't believe me at first when I told her the manufacturer warranty was three years, she'd never heard longer than a year for plasma tvs.) Has anyone here ever gone through Visa and successfully filed a claim?

Here's the info from the Visa website:
http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/benefits/bft_warranty_mgr.html?it=il|/personal/cards/benefits/index.html|Warranty%20Manager%20Service

Thanks!

so i went to the nec showcase in sf today.

so glad i had the chance to see the sets! in fact, the place was a hotbed of all kinds of cool technology...thought I had to act like I was a dealer or something, but quickly found out that it didn't matter. there were even cool parting gifts.

anywho, here's what i learned:

the 42" and 50" produce awesome images. the blacks are very black. the colors pop like a plasma should. i'm buying a 42". (I finalized the return of the Dell today)

the xr's (residential) and xm's (commercial) are the exactly the same, except for the inputs, bezel, and warranty. the commercial xm's have the 5-channel RGB input, component and dvi.

he confirmed the nec's will not take 1080p on HDMI.

my fiance doesn't like the bevelled glass thing on the bottom of the xr's bezel. "it look like a 70's era porn star TV" she thinks the xm's looks way better. but i'm not about to trade hdmi's for a bezel. the rep said that you might be able to put the xm bezel on the xr for a few hundred bones. i think she'll get over it once it's in home, but if not I'll check it out. it's her money too.

the rep said that the contrast ratios reported by nec are based on actual viewing conditions - NOT a completely dark room. given actual viewing conditions, a ratio of 1000 is very high. he also said nec takes much pride in their blacks, and he thinks it's clear that the nec detail in black images is "best in the industry"

he said the new 50" and 42" use glass that is unique to nec - not pioneer. he did acknowledge that the costco 42" pioneer uses the old 42" nec glass. but he noted that the resolutions of the 50" pioneers are different, and the pioneer pixels are rectangular. but not for long. pioneer is ditching the rectangular pixels and going to a more nec-like glass.

he said the warranty is in-home, and the technician network is pretty extensive.

i thought the image retention features were cool. the orbiter, the wiper - the nec's have em all. i found it interesting that he recommended playing the white screen for lots of hours as soon as its recieved to break it in and remove the fresh screen ghosting effects. "with a half-life of 60,000 hours, who cares? play it while you sleep"

i love that the PIP doesn't have any kind of white lines around the frames. i think the white frames are burn-in nightmares. the nec's have no frames, and you can arrange the 2 pictures in several different configurations.

the flat-panel lcd's were pretty cool, but so much $$$$ and blacks weren't as black as the plasmas.

the nec theatresync scaler produced a noticeably better picture on the 61". but for $3k, it better!! i'd like to see if it made much difference on the smaller 42"

fun stuff...can't wait to have it in my living room! i reall y hope the stand doesn't delay my ability to enjoy it!



Has anyone here had any experience with the warranty extension service that comes with some credit cards?

do a search.

others have had success.

but you have to follow the process EXACTLY.

keep very good records along the way

i'm gonna buy with credit for the free extended warranty.

Just checked out the NEC Partner event in San Francisco. Lots of nice stuff there including the 42xr4, 50xr5, 60xr5 as well as a 57" 1920x1080 LCD.

The cabinets on the new XR series are really nice. Much cleaner and classier than even the Pio Elite IMHO. Imagine a Panny Commercial that was dressed up a little. PQ on the 50" looked nicest to me, but I have to say that 42" was damn nice too.

Told the people at the door that I was representing my company rather than interested in the HT aspect so I didn't ask too many questions about resolutions and such. I mostly went to see what they looked like in person.

Verdict: Worth the price of admission over the Panny and Toshiba in looks alone. PQ was also excellent, although no side by side comparison available.

are you sure it was a 60xr5, not a 61xr4 that you saw?

Great info Oysterhead. Thanks!

I realize this is not important to most folks, but has anyone heard how the 50xr5 add on speakers sound. Not much power on board - 9W x 2. I do not want to have to fire up the HT to listen to the news, etc.


The speakers in black (NEC PXSP2UB) look ok with the 50xr5 and provide surprisingly good sound.

oysterhead, can you please qualify the "xr4 and xm4"s with the screen size. I know that the newest 42/50/61's may not have the same suffix number. . .

yeah, sorry, I might have been sloppy with my 4's and 5's....i edited the post to correct for future searchers.

the brochure says this:

RESIDENTIAL:

42XR4
50XR5
61XR4

COMMERCIAL:

42XM4
50XM5
61XM4

the commerical units are the same as the residential except fewer inputs, less warranty, and different bezel.

Thanks for the report, Oysterhead!

The interesting thing is that there is really not that much of a price difference.

Note: last year the only difference was the bezel and warranty. The XM's were selling better due to the black bezel compared to the XR's silver bezel.

so i went to the nec showcase in sf today.

my fiance doesn't like the bevelled glass thing on the bottom of the xr's bezel. "it look like a 70's era porn star TV" she thinks the xm's looks way better. but i'm not about to trade hdmi's for a bezel. the rep said that you might be able to put the xm bezel on the xr for a few hundred bones. i think she'll get over it once it's in home, but if not I'll check it out. it's her money too.

Thanks for the news oysterhead. I am not sure what mean about your fiance not liking the bevelled glass on the xr's though. I haven't seen one in person, but I don't see anything like that in the pictures. The 42 and 50 xr's look the same don't they?

see the light-colored "strip" at the bottom of the set? i think it's a bonafide beveled strip-o-mirror.

that's what she's not into....prefers the plain black like on the commercial models.

others think these sets look awesome... i'm one of 'em

(but she has a much better sense of style than me - I'm just a dude - hell! a 70's era porno star TV sounds sweeeeeet to me!! :) )

so i went to the nec showcase in sf today.
...
i'm gonna buy with credit for the free extended warranty.

Thanks for the report! You're getting me even more excited. I should have my 50XR5 on monday!

are you sure it was a 60xr5, not a 61xr4 that you saw?

good call out. I wasn't sure of the model numbers and I didn't really hassle the rep who was talking to me about it at the time. Plus, I wasn't really interested in the 61" since it was way too big for me.

see the light-colored "strip" at the bottom of the set? i think it's a bonafide beveled strip-o-mirror.

that's what she's not into....prefers the plain black like on the commercial models.

others think these sets look awesome... i'm one of 'em

(but she has a much better sense of style than me - I'm just a dude - hell! a 70's era porno star TV sounds sweeeeeet to me!! :) )

That strip is hardly visible from 8 feet distance, should not be a big issue IMHO.

Hey Oyster...
You said "...he confirmed the nec's will not take 1080p on HDMI."

Will the xm take 1080p through the DVI?

TIA

shane

That's a good question. You might try dropping an email to VSD tech support through the NEC website. It (50XR5) definitely won't take 1080 (60p) through HDMI. It may take 1080 (30p) or 1080 (24p) though.

It will take 1080 (60p) through component and display it perfectly. I've not tried VGA but according to NEC this will work too. I would assume that 1080 (30 and 24p) will work through analog as well.

oysterhead,

How did the 42XR4 look compared to the 50XR5? Why did you choose the 42 over the 50?

Is the NEC 50XR5A glass 50% thicker, 5" vs 3.3" on the Panasonic 50PHD8UK or is someone stretching the truth?

Is the NEC 50XR5A glass 50% thicker, 5" vs 3.3" on the Panasonic 50PHD8UK or is someone stretching the truth?

i think someone is stretching the truth there. The NEC is 3.9" in total thickness so how could the glass be 5".

On another note (I also posted this in another thread, but wanted to bring it up in the main one too), has anyone else tested this panel for judder yet. I had a chance to watch chapter 3 of SWIII last night and can honestly say I saw no judder whatsoever. It appeared to be a smooth pan from sun to ship. This was sending the panel 480i with an older Toshiba player over component. Maybe someone with a better player can check it out as well. Any other scenes that I can check this out on?

Tony17( ),
I watched Batman Begins (twice-3). That DVD has Blacks all over the place. Bats too..
The picture (DVD) also has no jitters, details of the bat cave is excellent, Actions scenes are more detailed than what we saw in the movie theater, {my 5.1 sound system is better than the movies theater}. I am watching DVD’s on the xr5, with a 5yr old PAN-RP82 and the PQ is excellent. {I would love to see what the picture would look like with a -denon 3910 or equivalent.) Also, I have only superficially calibrated the different memory modes & the PQ is excellent. I really have not seen that much SD on a plasma and i am happy with SD matterial. A buddy of mine came over and said my SD picture was way better than on his plasma (but then again he has a LCD ;^) )My Plasma is almost 30 days old now. I have no issues.

Ok I think enough is enough I placed a preorder for the 50xr5a yes I will have to resell my panny stand for the 50phd8uk that I was gonna get but I hope this is worth it. Can anyone tell me if I hook a PC up to this plasma after the break in time period will I still have to worry every coiuple of minutes about burn in or what. I am just worried because one of the uses I thought for this tv was to hook up my pc to it for about 2 hrs at a time.

Also can anyone tell me if this has a cablecard slot and if not does anyone know why they wouldnt inlclude this.

No, there is no cablecard slot. I think NEC designs their plasmas more for people with home theaters where they assume a separate audio system, reciever, etc. are already in place. I'm not saying which is right or wrong, just what I think NEC tries to cater to. Personally, I can't ever see watching tv without dvr/TiVo functions, but I can see where this is an important feature to some. I think TiVo is coming out with a CableCard unit that may fit your needs if you decide on this panel. Not sure when it will be coming out as it has been in development for a while, but I think they are getting closer to releasing it.

Quick question for those of you who own this line.

Break-in period aside, how many of you would be hesitant to play a video game (or some other HTPC equivalent) for say around 4 hours for fear of burn-in?

oysterhead,

How did the 42XR4 look compared to the 50XR5? Why did you choose the 42 over the 50?


i thought PQ on both was top-notch.

I chose the 42" due to $$$, sitting distance, and the fact that we went from a small CRT. A 42" seems big!

No, there is no cablecard slot. I think NEC designs their plasmas more for people with home theaters where they assume a separate audio system, reciever, etc. are already in place. I'm not saying which is right or wrong, just what I think NEC tries to cater to. Personally, I can't ever see watching tv without dvr/TiVo functions, but I can see where this is an important feature to some. I think TiVo is coming out with a CableCard unit that may fit your needs if you decide on this panel. Not sure when it will be coming out as it has been in development for a while, but I think they are getting closer to releasing it.I don't have this display, but I believe that a game that changes maps/levels every so often shouldn't be much of a problem. Still, I would probably take a break and just cycle inputs, or turn the set off and back on occasionally just to be safe - at least until one has reached an acceptable break in period.

Is the NEC 50XR5A glass 50% thicker, 5" vs 3.3" on the Panasonic 50PHD8UK or is someone stretching the truth?

The 61XR4 is 5 inches total thickness. Maybe this is what was being referred to . I think the 50XR5 is around 3.8. The dimensions for the various models/stands, typical mounting, etc. are available on the NEC website in the "installation guide" for each.

Quick question for those of you who own this line.

Break-in period aside, how many of you would be hesitant to play a video game (or some other HTPC equivalent) for say around 4 hours for fear of burn-in?

Just turn the screen-wiper for this during the first few months if you have a concern. Also, the NEC rep told oysterhead to not hesitate about using the white screen to accelerate break-in. See his report in previous post.

I wouldn't worry about accelerating the aging of the panel, either. Like I've said previously, 55,000 hours without burn-in is better than 60,000 with it. Peace of mind is worth it too.

Hey folks.

I've been badgering Panasonic Canada to get me some info about the new Panasonic 1080p 65" plasmas. They talked to Japan and here's what they told me:

1. There will be an "Industrial" version of the 65" 1080p model. It will be produced in the fall.

2. The industrial model will accept 1080p/60 via it's component inputs. Panasonic is still "working on" the digital input. The Panasonic Canada rep does not expect, at this time, that model will accept 1080p via it's HDMI input. ( :( )

"Maybe next year" it will have 1080p input capability for HDMI.

3. It will apparently be outfitted with an optional HD/SDI input board.

That's all I have at the moment.

So is this the same thing that the new NEC's do? Accept 1080P over component? Does that mean there's no advantage to waiting for the full 1080P Panasonic over the NEC?

So is this the same thing that the new NEC's do? Accept 1080P over component? Does that mean there's no advantage to waiting for the full 1080P Panasonic over the NEC?

Well, no, unless you consider that whole native 1920 x 1080 panel thing an advantage. :) ;)
Blue Ray as well as native 1080i should be awesome for 1080p panels in theory. I think Blue Ray will be awesome for everyone for that matter as it will be the first pure non-compressed 1080 source many of us have ever seen (me included).

You'll pay through the nose for the first gen 1080p Panny's though. Additionally, I personally would be leary of the first generation 1080p panels as I'm sure there will be some issues.

I am cautiously optimistic that the NEC panels will accept 1080 (24p) over HDMI/DVI which should be potentially the best way to do Blue Ray if you believe the NEC scales/deinterlaces well.

Thanks. I suppose it was a hypothetical question since the NEC and Pioneer panels I'm deciding between both stretch my budget. The 65" panasonic is but a distant dream.

So what does it mean to accept 1080p on analong connections only (that's what the nec does, right?) And what is its effect on my viewing experience?

I'll be getting my 50xr5 today (yessss), and I will use the plasma for 25% TV, 25% Movies, 50% Games. I don't think anybody on this thread has reported their experience using their NEC with a game console, so I guess I'll share my input if anybody is interested. Though, I might wait until after 100 hrs.

Not sure if it's possible, maybe I can setup a macro on my harmony remote to do a quick white screen or screen wipe and I can just press that every now and then while playing games?

So what does it mean to accept 1080p on analong connections only (that's what the nec does, right?) And what is its effect on my viewing experience?

The NEC will accept 1080 (60p) over component but not over HDMI. It may indeed accept 1080 (24p) over HDMI as well. 1080 (24p) will be the native resolution of Blue Ray so this may well be the best way to do it regardless.
The conversion to 1080 (60p) will either have to be done inside the player or inside the display. It's the same question all over again of where you believe the best processing is being performed. This same question will also apply even if the display is native 1080p.

To answer your question, though, I'm not certain there will be an advantage. 1080p input would obviate the need for deinterlacing in the display, but it may still be best to stay all digital and avoid the D/A and A/D conversion. This is why I'm hopeful 1080 (24p) will be supported via HDMI.

Stupid question time - I keep hearing about floating blacks, but I am unsure what that means, especially how it relates to being able to turn them on/off with a setting on the TV. I thought I had a handle on it, but now I am not sure. This does not have anything to do with flicker, does it.

Well, good news and bad news.

I called and spoke to Lumagen and found out how to set my scaler to ouput 1080 (24fps). The bad news is that the 50XR5 won't accept it over HDMI. According to Lumagen, hardly anything will right now other than Sony Qualia FP's. The good news is that you can still output 1080i from Blue Ray through HDMI and it will obviously work fine and most likely will look stellar.

This may be interesting: 1080i Blue Ray over HDMI vs. 1080p Blue Ray over component. At least we'll have the option of testing it. :)

Stupid question time - I keep hearing about floating blacks, but I am unsure what that means, especially how it relates to being able to turn them on/off with a setting on the TV. I thought I had a handle on it, but now I am not sure. This does not have anything to do with flicker, does it.

No, it has nothing to do with flicker. As far as I know the only manufacturer that has this problem/feature is Panasonic. What is does is adjust the absolute black level depending on the brightness of the scene being displayed. This lets the display have darker blacks on a dark scene and lighter whites on a light scene by adjusting the black level. The problem with this is that many people notice the black levels jumping up and down depending on the scene and it can be annoying to some. Some people don't notice it though.

Well, good news and bad news.

I called and spoke to Lumagen and found out how to set my scaler to ouput 1080 (24fps). The bad news is that the 50XR5 won't accept it over HDMI. According to Lumagen, hardly anything will right now other than Sony Qualia FP's. The good news is that you can still output 1080i from Blue Ray through HDMI and it will obviously work fine and most likely will look stellar.

This may be interesting: 1080i Blue Ray over HDMI vs. 1080p Blue Ray over component. At least we'll have the option of testing it. :)

Will Blue Ray let you output component? I have heard that HD-DVD will not output anything other than HDMI due to over-diligent copyright protection. Wondering if Blue Ray will go the same route.

I've heard ramblings of the same thing but according to reports from CES at least Pioneer will. Point well taken, though. It won't be long before component input will be useless I'm afraid if the copy protection demons have their way, and component 1080p output is probably only vaporware until proven otherwise.

rnotley,

I'll be anxious to hear your results from your gaming. Let us know.

Well, good news and bad news.

I called and spoke to Lumagen and found out how to set my scaler to ouput 1080 (24fps). The bad news is that the 50XR5 won't accept it over HDMI. According to Lumagen, hardly anything will right now other than Sony Qualia FP's. The good news is that you can still output 1080i from Blue Ray through HDMI and it will obviously work fine and most likely will look stellar.

This may be interesting: 1080i Blue Ray over HDMI vs. 1080p Blue Ray over component. At least we'll have the option of testing it. :)

Cpcat -

Thanks for your diligence on this. I've been waiting somewhat anxiously to get the 1080p/24 HDMI answer. Bummer - sort of - I think.

While it would be great to have the panel accept a pure 1080p signal either at 24 fps or even 60 fps, there is still going to be processing inside of the 50XR5 because it's native resolution is 1365x768 and my guess (pure speculation frankly) is that the display's native refresh rate is fixed at 60hz so it would need to covert (speed up) the 24fps to 30fps to match the panels refresh rate. I may not have all of this exactly right but I'm sure you get the point.

That said, I'm wondering whether accepting 1080p via HDMI is really an issue on a panel with a native resolution of 1365x768. Since the panel actually accepts native resolution via HDMI (a huge benefit and one that only a few actually do - I understand the commercial pannys do this but I have also heard it may not really be PnP), doesn't it make more sense to get a next gen scaler that can really do full inverse telecine on a 1080i signal (and accept 1080p) and have the scaler do its magic and output the signal at 1365x768 via HDMI?

I'm currently debating the "65 Panny 8UK and the "61 NEC 61xr4. I've pretty much decided waiting for the next gen of 1080p panels is going to be a long wait, so I'd rather have fun now. This thread has renewed/peaked my interest in NEC.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Rob aka Technut
rskinner@towbes.com

i thought PQ on both was top-notch.

I chose the 42" due to $$$, sitting distance, and the fact that we went from a small CRT. A 42" seems big!


What size television did you move up from and what is your viewing distance? I'm currently using a standard 27" Panasonic CRT and my viewing distance is about 14'. I used masking tape to frame in the size of the 42XR4 in our entertainment center. The size doesn't look too bad.

Cpcat -

Thanks for your diligence on this. I've been waiting somewhat anxiously to get the 1080p/24 HDMI answer. Bummer - sort of - I think.

While it would be great to have the panel accept a pure 1080p signal either at 24 fps or even 60 fps, there is still going to be processing inside of the 50XR5 because it's native resolution is 1365x768 and my guess (pure speculation frankly) is that the display's native refresh rate is fixed at 60hz so it would need to covert (speed up) the 24fps to 30fps to match the panels refresh rate. I may not have all of this exactly right but I'm sure you get the point.

As far as I know, you are correct. The panel's native resolution and requirement for 1:1 is 1365 x 768 (60p) so everything has to be converted to this for display (other than native that is :D ).


That said, I'm wondering whether accepting 1080p via HDMI is really an issue on a panel with a native resolution of 1365x768. Since the panel actually accepts native resolution via HDMI (a huge benefit and one that only a few actually do - I understand the commercial pannys do this but I have also heard it may not really be PnP), doesn't it make more sense to get a next gen scaler that can really do full inverse telecine on a 1080i signal (and accept 1080p) and have the scaler do its magic and output the signal at 1365x768 via HDMI?

Certainly, this is the big advantage of native rate support, especially with true 1:1. I'm not trying to sell Lumagen (well maybe :)) , but 1080 (24fps) input support has been in the works for awhile and will be downloadable free when it's ready. Since this will be the native form of Blue Ray, I'd think it would be preferrable to output native from the disc and to do the rest inside the external scaler. I'll have to confirm, but if I'm not mistaken, you can then perform 3:2 pulldown to convert to 1080 (30fps) followed by deinterlacing to 1080 (60p) and subsequent scaling to native without dropping any frames. All of this is in place now with the current gen. Lumagen except 1080 (24pfs) input support. Most likely, it is similar with the DVDO VP30 as they share the same chip but I'm speculating a bit there.

You *could* take 1080 (60p) from the player and input to the external scaler but then you'd be depending on the player to have the best processing as all the scaler would have left to do is scale 1080 (60p) to 768 (60p).


I'm currently debating the "65 Panny 8UK and the "61 NEC 61xr4. I've pretty much decided waiting for the next gen of 1080p panels is going to be a long wait, so I'd rather have fun now. This thread has renewed/peaked my interest in NEC.

Choices, Choices. :cool: Forgive me if I don't feel sorry for your plight.
My only concern if your plan is use of an external scaler now or in the future would be true 1:1 mapping with the Panny. I've done alot of research on this, and if you read between the lines, it seems that no one has gotten true 1:1 over DVI/HDMI on the Panny's. You should be able to look at alternating black/white H-line and V-line patterns and see true one-pixel wide rows. What I've seen reported were good looking H-line patterns but with moire patterned V-line patterns for whatever reason. I can confirm it's easy with the NEC.

Well I've finally joined the fray tonight. Put a 42XR4 on order with Chris at Cleveland Plasma so with luck I will be watching Lost in HD next week. :cool:

Wanted to thank all the early adopters like cpcat, big mac, lisam, tony17, and johnson5 for all their input, impressions, and tirelessly answering all the questions us poor souls without one kept asking. Thanks also to Oysterhead for crashing the NEC event and posting the information he gathered. You all made my decision much easier. (I know missed some of you, so I apologize if you aren't on the list, you're views were still appreciated!)

I was trying to decide between the Panasonic 42px50u and this and kept going back and forth between them. What pushed it over the edge for me was the alleged goodness of the SD scaler in the NEC, the lack of floating blacks, an additional HDMI, and the swivel stand which I will use often due to my funky room layout. They just all added up to the NEC being the clear winner even though I haven't seen one yet. Hope to validate my choice soon!

Congratulations, N8G! If my experience over the last 2 weeks is any indication, you will not be disappointed in either Chris or the NEC. And Lost looks fantastic - watching last week's episode right now.

Dave

cpcat, or anyone else who's gotten into the service menu. can anyone make out if it is possible to activate the night/day settings feature. I would really like to enable this if possible, but don't want to get an ISF calibration just for that. Thanks!

Well, good news and bad news.

I called and spoke to Lumagen and found out how to set my scaler to ouput 1080 (24fps). The bad news is that the 50XR5 won't accept it over HDMI. According to Lumagen, hardly anything will right now other than Sony Qualia FP's. The good news is that you can still output 1080i from Blue Ray through HDMI and it will obviously work fine and most likely will look stellar.

This may be interesting: 1080i Blue Ray over HDMI vs. 1080p Blue Ray over component. At least we'll have the option of testing it. :)


Ahhh, this is exactly what I was going to ask and you answered it. Thanks! As long as I can use my HDMI to carry 1080i, I'm fine with that. I just didn't want to switch to component!!

Well I've finally joined the fray tonight. Put a 42XR4 on order with Chris at Cleveland Plasma so with luck I will be watching Lost in HD next week. :cool:

Wanted to thank all the early adopters like cpcat, big mac, lisam, tony17, and johnson5 for all their input, impressions, and tirelessly answering all the questions us poor souls without one kept asking. Thanks also to Oysterhead for crashing the NEC event and posting the information he gathered. You all made my decision much easier. (I know missed some of you, so I apologize if you aren't on the list, you're views were still appreciated!)

I was trying to decide between the Panasonic 42px50u and this and kept going back and forth between them. What pushed it over the edge for me was the alleged goodness of the SD scaler in the NEC, the lack of floating blacks, an additional HDMI, and the swivel stand which I will use often due to my funky room layout. They just all added up to the NEC being the clear winner even though I haven't seen one yet. Hope to validate my choice soon!

Good decision .
You will love this panel.

What size television did you move up from and what is your viewing distance? I'm currently using a standard 27" Panasonic CRT and my viewing distance is about 14'. I used masking tape to frame in the size of the 42XR4 in our entertainment center. The size doesn't look too bad.

We went from a 32" CRT....a viewing distance of 14' is getting to the 50" range. my thought: if the extra $1k is not a big deal, I'd go with the 50". if you're already stretching it to get the 42", the go with the 42 and I'm sure you'll be siked. coming from a 27 it's gonna look huge! (dammit another option: go with a cheaper 50" like the Hitachi from Costco)


Thanks also to Oysterhead for crashing the NEC event and posting the information he gathered.

no problem it's always great to encourage people to spend their hard-earned money.

My 50xr5 has shipped! I was hoping to have it this week, but the federal holiday bumped everything, so I'll have it Monday. At least it gives me the weekend to put the mount up and make other preparations. As long as I have it in time for 24, I'm happy!

I can get the Pioneer Elite 50" for the same price as the NEC with speakers. Any reason why I should not choose the PRO-1130 over the 50XR5?

Aside from the obvious difference in size/resolution, are there any other benefits of going with the 50xr5 versus the 42xr4? (still not sure why the 42" is an "r4" vs an "r5" - is this significant?). ie, does it have any technological advantages/advances over the 42 inch version?

thanks

Tough decision...

I believe it comes down to looks and connection options. Pioneer seems to have more stuff in the media box. If you got lots of equipment, Pioneer seems to be the best bet. That price for an Elite isn't possible for even dealers to get, however, so whoever sells it to you must owe you money...

Aside from the obvious difference in size/resolution, are there any other benefits of going with the 50xr5 versus the 42xr4? (still not sure why the 42" is an "r4" vs an "r5" - is this significant?). ie, does it have any technological advantages/advances over the 42 inch version?

thanks


no. in fact, the 42 has some advantages over the 50, including:

1. the screen is bonded, reducing reflection while increasing contrast and brightness

2. it has the "crystal clear panel" which increases contrast/brightnes...not really sure what this means

see this: NEC Brochure (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/ColorBrochures/NEC100519.pdf)

My 50xr5 has shipped! I was hoping to have it this week, but the federal holiday bumped everything, so I'll have it Monday. At least it gives me the weekend to put the mount up and make other preparations. As long as I have it in time for 24, I'm happy!

I'm in the same boat as you, monday also. I'm going with the stand and it arrived today. It's actually very hefty and solid.

cpcat, or anyone else who's gotten into the service menu. can anyone make out if it is possible to activate the night/day settings feature. I would really like to enable this if possible, but don't want to get an ISF calibration just for that. Thanks!

I didn't see anything in there that looked like that. In addition, many options you select can't be changed for whatever reason. There's probably some other "super secret" code. PM me if you need the access code to the SM. It should also be up on Bruzzi's site soon as I forwarded the info to him as well.

I guess you need more than 6 picture memory settings?

no. in fact, the 42 has some advantages over the 50, including:

1. the screen is bonded, reducing reflection while increasing contrast and brightness

2. it has the "crystal clear panel" which increases contrast/brightnes...not really sure what this means

see this: NEC Brochure (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/ColorBrochures/NEC100519.pdf)

What about the pixel shapes. I've read in this forum that the 42" has rectangular pixels. Does this have any meaningful effect, or is it essentially insignificant?

thanks

I guess you need more than 6 picture memory settings?

No, I was actually hoping that there was some sort of internal timer that you would be able to set the panel to automatically switch to ISF Night settings at a specific time....say 7PM or something. I think that would be sweet!

What about the pixel shapes. I've read in this forum that the 42" has rectangular pixels. Does this have any meaningful effect, or is it essentially insignificant?

thanks
In a similar way, the pixels on a 50" Pioneer are also rectangular, but I've never heard of anyone who says they can see a difference. Most say (and I agree) the Pioneer PQ is stunning.

So unless you use a microscope (screendoor anyone? ;) ) you shouldn't be able to tell what shape the pixels are.

my .01 (worth half as much)

no. in fact, the 42 has some advantages over the 50, including:

1. the screen is bonded, reducing reflection while increasing contrast and brightness

2. it has the "crystal clear panel" which increases contrast/brightnes...not really sure what this means

see this: NEC Brochure (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/ColorBrochures/NEC100519.pdf)

Hmm. I'd assumed the 50" was the very latest generation because of the 5 in the model #, as opposed to the 42" 4. Oh well. So can anybody say what effect those two differences seem to have. Does the 42" screen actually look better than the 50" screen? Enough that it might make one go down in size to accomplish the better pic? Thanks.

I have the 42 and it looks great. Many people in this thread have the 50 and love it. I don't think that you can go wrong with either panel. I would pick the size which would work best for you at your viewing distance. I can tell you that, if I had the space and a bit more viewing distance, I would have gone for the 50.

you guys are making too big a deal out of this stuff.

both the 42" and 50" have amazing pictures.

neither have rectangular pixels.

both are the latest gen....it's just the glass in the 42 is a little different.

i defintely wouldn't downsize to the 42 if you have the budget and sitting distance for a 50, that's for sure!

I agree with oysterhead (except for one thing, see below), you would be happy with either.

FWIW, a lot of people who have gone for the smaller panel have experienced "shrinkage" after they've lived with their panel for awhile, and wished they had gotten the bigger one. If you are nine feet or more away, I would go with the 50, just to preclude buyer's remorse for not having gone larger.

The exception: according to the NEC specsheet the pixel pitch of the 42" is .90 X .67 mm. Maybe this is not technically a rectangular pixel, but it's pretty close! ;)

I almost went with a 42" panel, but decided to spend a bit more and get the 50"... now i wish i had the 61"!!! ha ha ha and it's only been 2 weeks!

Seriously, bigger is better, especially with a high quality source...

Just my 2 cents,
Jeff

I almost went with a 42" panel, but decided to spend a bit more and get the 50"... now i wish i had the 61"!!! ha ha ha and it's only been 2 weeks!

Seriously, bigger is better, especially with a high quality source...

Just my 2 cents,
Jeff


I agree Jeff....if those 61's weren't twice the price of the 50, I think I'd have gone for that too! :D

^^^If you have the viewing distance otherwise you'll see the pixels. But what's the point? Sit further away the screen becomes smaller, like the size of a 50" if sitting closer. Sit closer with a 61" and you see the pixels. The 50" is the sweet spot as it has the most pixels for the smallest size they offer. 61" makes no sense unless it has more pixels.

Thanks, y'all. I guess I'll stick with my 50" goal - as I sit 14' away from screen. It's funny that my 27" CRT has worked okay. Now suddenly 42" feels too small.

Now if I could only find one to look at...

have any of the current owners of the NEC used the PIP? If so what sources did you use and how did they look? what about split-screen?

what HD sources are you current owners using (cable, OTA, etc)? If OTA, what tuner are you using?

thanks.

Thanks, y'all. I guess I'll stick with my 50" goal - as I sit 14' away from screen. It's funny that my 27" CRT has worked okay. Now suddenly 42" feels too small.

Now if I could only find one to look at...

If you sit 14' away definitely go with a least the 50 no matter what brand you land on. My distance is around 15' and I'm happy (but I'd be happier with a 61 or 65 :) )

This might have been covered, but I was wondering what I should be sending to the 50XR5 for dvds, 480p or 480i and let it "p" itself.

This might have been covered, but I was wondering what I should be sending to the 50XR5 for dvds, 480p or 480i and let it "p" itself.

In theory, 480i via HDMI/DVI would be best assuming the NEC deinterlacing is of better quality than that in the player. I'd say that's a safe assumption for most players. Next favorable would be 480p via HDMI/DVI followed by 480i via component. This is all theoretical, mind you, and the reality may be there won't be much difference.

have any of the current owners of the NEC used the PIP? If so what sources did you use and how did they look? what about split-screen?

what HD sources are you current owners using (cable, OTA, etc)? If OTA, what tuner are you using?

thanks.

PIP with SD and HD with dish receiver . PIP is much better than the original picture offcourse , the size difference. You can move PIP to four corners .
The split screen also looks good .

my moto box can only output to one digital port at a time.

and I'm not gonna buy an external tuner/scaler for a while.

so i think I'll do PIP with:

1. HD from cable box
2. SD from cable box via VCR (yes I still have a VCR)

PIP with SD and HD with dish receiver . PIP is much better than the original picture offcourse , the size difference. You can move PIP to four corners .
The split screen also looks good .

you get both SD and HD from the dish at the same time or is SD from a diff source?

can the NEC can display 2 HD sources in PIP or split screen but just not 2 HDMI,
right?

Cpcat -

Thanks for your diligence on this. I've been waiting somewhat anxiously to get the 1080p/24 HDMI answer. Bummer - sort of - I think.

While it would be great to have the panel accept a pure 1080p signal either at 24 fps or even 60 fps, there is still going to be processing inside of the 50XR5 because it's native resolution is 1365x768 and my guess (pure speculation frankly) is that the display's native refresh rate is fixed at 60hz so it would need to covert (speed up) the 24fps to 30fps to match the panels refresh rate. I may not have all of this exactly right but I'm sure you get the point.

That said, I'm wondering whether accepting 1080p via HDMI is really an issue on a panel with a native resolution of 1365x768. Since the panel actually accepts native resolution via HDMI (a huge benefit and one that only a few actually do - I understand the commercial pannys do this but I have also heard it may not really be PnP), doesn't it make more sense to get a next gen scaler that can really do full inverse telecine on a 1080i signal (and accept 1080p) and have the scaler do its magic and output the signal at 1365x768 via HDMI?

I'm currently debating the "65 Panny 8UK and the "61 NEC 61xr4. I've pretty much decided waiting for the next gen of 1080p panels is going to be a long wait, so I'd rather have fun now. This thread has renewed/peaked my interest in NEC.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Rob aka Technut
rskinner@towbes.com

But what's the point in buying a $2000 scaler? You may as well wait and buy a 1080p plasma with the extra $2000 you save. So spend $6000 for the TV.

^^ Witha 1080P set, Ithink a scaler becomes even more critical for most stuff you watch will definitley have to be upconverted.

But what's the point in buying a $2000 scaler? You may as well wait and buy a 1080p plasma with the extra $2000 you save. So spend $6000 for the TV.

I think whether to jump in with the first generation 1080p plasmas is a totally separate issue/decision. I wouldn't personally. I think I'd wait until at least 3rd gen. They'll be a much better value (cheaper), better implemented, and likely more reliable as well by then. I think the other question still not answered is whether 1080p will even make much difference without high quality 1080 sources. Blue Ray makes me hopeful but how long will it be before an adequate number of titles are available?

Even then, an external scaler will provide additional advantages. Besides the higher quality scaling/processing for SD and HD, you also get added flexibility built-in such as further greyscale and color adjustment, customizable non-linear stretch modes for SD/HD sources, per input and per *input resolution* programmable picture settings, per input programmable black level pedestal setup, and programmable per- input sizing/cropping/position settings.

That said, all of these features can be intermittently upgraded through free download (referring specifically to Lumagen here) and that way you have some degree of future proofing which helps prevent early obsolescence of your display.

This all assumes a high quality display which supports native rate over HDMI/DVI and preferrably 1:1 pixel mapping as well.

Just ordered my 50xr5 with stand from Chris @ cleveland plasma and cant wait for it to arrive. I have an xbox 360 and an hd stb that I will hook up to it. If I have time I will try to get some pics up for everyone. I am still praying I made the right decision to pay the extra money and go with the nec over the panny. THanks for all the info guys and for being the guinea pigs. I hope one day we can laugh in everyones face for doubting the all mighty NEC.

^^ Make sure to post pics of the 360 games on the screen. Also make sure to tell us how great the combination is, because I'm sure it will be. I can only dream right now... I'm not ion the 100K club yet.

i'd like to hear about image retention (if any) when playing XBOX during the early part of your NEC's life.

There wont be too much xbox 360 usage during the first 100 hours but definetly after I will post some comments.

I can't speak to XBOX image retention, but i can tell you that i see retention very quickly using my HTPC - even with contrast at 35 and brightness at 30. Gotta be really careful not to leave the menus up for too long! My dealer told me to be extra careful for 100 hours, and careful for the first 1000 hrs...

Jeff

I wont care as much because with the first 1000 hrs I will use the swiper or somehting to prevent burn in but that means I get about 59000 hours of viewing with basically no worry of burn in.

can the NEC can display 2 HD sources in PIP or split screen but just not 2 HDMI,
right?

Last night, I briefly had HD via component and HD via HDMI with PIP - was able to switch between the two. So, yes, it can be done. I'm still in my break-in period, so I didn't want to spend too much time on this.

I've not found a use for PBP, since the 16 x 9 views are quite small. Also, a lot of grey (or black, depending on your background choice) remains on the screen in PBP. Definately not a good thing during initial break-in. I'll see if I can post a couple of screenshots this weekend.

Dave

I just bought a new Pioneer 59avi DVD player, and last night I watched my first movie on my NEC 50XR5. I have seen the 59avi in action for the last couple of years in a local high end audio/video emporium, usually driving a Pioneer Elite Pro 1120 and/or 1130 plasma tv. Neither my 59avi nor my 50XR5 have been tweaked in any way. I set the 59avi to feed a 720p image to the plasma. The movie was a rented copy of "Batman Begins", from Blockbuster. It is obvious that the NEC is very comparable to the latest Pioneer Elites in terms of crispness of the image, color rendition, shadow detail, etc. Blacks were black enough not to detract from the overall effect. However, without having the two plasmas side by side, I am not going to claim that the NEC is better than the Pio 1130. My only criticism is that in fast action scenes, like the martial arts fighting scenes, there was some blurring of the moving images. Since I have definitely NOT seen this effect while watching SD broadcasts over my Directv STB, it may be that the NEC scaler is superior to the scaling afforded by the 59avi, and I need to try feeding the NEC with 480i over HDMI from the 59avi, so the NEC can do the de-interlacing and scaling, before I can make a judgment as to where the fault lies.

As far as other issues that folks seem concerned about, I have zero fan noise, even standing next to the set with volume turned down, and I have seen no evidence of image retention whatever. Of course, this may be because I do not use XBOX or feed the NEC from my computer.

Thanks...
Can't wait to hear your observations of the 480i over HDMI. Am looking to do the same. ;)

Cheers

shane

So I've had my NEC 50XR5 for 2 days now, and I'm loving it. I bought sight unseen. Today, I'll mount this puppy on the wall. So far I have about 24 hours of on-time. About 16 hours have been the white screen mode while I'm asleep.

I've watched some TV and played my PS2 on this (TV-hdmi, PS2-component). I've noticed image retention only once, and that was with the guide on the TV. I turned on the screen wiper and it was gone in a minute or two. This happened within the first hour of being on. I haven't tried it since though.

Playing PS2, I haven't had any problems with image retention. I test by unplugging the video every now and then. Most of the "sticky" images on my games don't have that much of a contrast difference between the image and the background, so I don't think it'll be a problem. I have been stretching everything so it fills up the screen.

I also had my hands on a couple PAL games for the PS2. It's great, I can play those now and can benefit from the extra resolution.

Also, no hdmi problems when connecting to my SA8300HD.

Another interesting thing I tried was to have the SA8300HD output s-video to my old crt tv, and hdmi to the NEC. So I had two monitors showing the same output. I noticed that on my old TV would be about 0.1 second faster than the NEC. I was testing on a 1080i channel. I haven't hooked up my sound system yet (tonite), but maybe I need to introduce some delay to match the video?

Another interesting thing I tried was to have the SA8300HD output s-video to my old tv, and hdmi to the NEC. So I had two TV's showing the same output. I noticed that on my old TV would be about 0.1 second faster than the NEC. I was testing on a 1080i channel. I haven't hooked up my sound system yet (tonite), but maybe I need to introduce some delay to match the video?
Hmmmmm

This topic has been floating around the forum without any hits being taken by NEC (AFAIK).

Please do report back on whether you need to introduce audio delay, and whether it is source specific.

TIA

Hmmmmm

This topic has been floating around the forum without any hits being taken by NEC (AFAIK).

Please do report back on whether you need to introduce audio delay, and whether it is source specific.

TIA

I notice no delay either when viewing SD from my satellite STB or when I viewed a movie on my new Pio 59avi (see post above). The 59avi is connected via HDMI and the STB is connected via s-video. However, even if I had noticed lip synch issues, I would not consider that a "fault" of the plasma, and there are several ways to cure the problem, especially if one owns a recent vintage AVR. Most of them can delay the audio to allow video to catch up.

I just bought a new Pioneer 59avi DVD player, and last night I watched my first movie on my NEC 50XR5. I have seen the 59avi in action for the last couple of years in a local high end audio/video emporium, usually driving a Pioneer Elite Pro 1120 and/or 1130 plasma tv. Neither my 59avi nor my 50XR5 have been tweaked in any way. I set the 59avi to feed a 720p image to the plasma. The movie was a rented copy of "Batman Begins", from Blockbuster. It is obvious that the NEC is very comparable to the latest Pioneer Elites in terms of crispness of the image, color rendition, shadow detail, etc. Blacks were black enough not to detract from the overall effect. However, without having the two plasmas side by side, I am not going to claim that the NEC is better than the Pio 1130. My only criticism is that in fast action scenes, like the martial arts fighting scenes, there was some blurring of the moving images. Since I have definitely NOT seen this effect while watching SD broadcasts over my Directv STB, it may be that the NEC scaler is superior to the scaling afforded by the 59avi, and I need to try feeding the NEC with 480i over HDMI from the 59avi, so the NEC can do the de-interlacing and scaling, before I can make a judgment as to where the fault lies.


I'll be very interested in your thoughts. I just got my 50Xr5 and I've had a 59avi for about a year now. I haven't received my wall mount yet so I can't really do much with the plasma yet. I did run it a few minutes from the shipping box bottom with the superbit Fifth Element and I tried, 1080i, 720p and 480i output from the 59avi via HDMI. No tweaking of the picture settings. I was running the in the stadium and 2:35 to 1 modes. I haven't decided if 720p or 480i is better yet. Need more watching time... I did run 720p for a minute without any zoom mode... wow... Wife was floored how good it looked compared to my old rptv that was running the svideo from 59avi at the same time...

/Rob

I am not the an expert like others out here on this forum. But is it really a minus that the NECs don't have built-in tuner since almost every other consumer plasma has one built-in? Also, can I get away with using the tuner that the cable company provides or do I have to invest more $$ for a tuner? A retailer even told me that TVs with built-in tuners have better pictures since you don't have to deal with wires...

What are the pros and cons of having a built-in tuner? Thanks.

Hi Everyone,

Well, I received my 50xr5 today, and managed to get it on the wall. I haven't played with it yet, but I wanted to post a HUGE THANK YOU TO CHRIS at Cleveland Plasma.


This was my first major purchase that was sight unseen and from someone in another state that I couldn't meet in a store, and yet, Chris has managed to make it a great purchasing experience - and one that I would gladly repeat in a heartbeat. Let me tell you all how.

I ordered my plasma about a week and a half ago. It arrived late Tuesday (3 days ago). Unfortunately, there was shipping damage, and the screen was shattered upon delivery. I called Chris, and in less than 20 minutes, another plasma was on its way, and he went the extra mile to expedite the shipping and made sure it got here today! This one arrived with no physical damage :)

Today, Chris followed up with a phone call to make sure the shipping company had contacted me and delivered my plasma. And spent plenty of time with me as I was contemplating various ways to mount this thing - which went pretty smooth BTW.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this review of Chris! Anyone can sell a plasma; however, when things went wrong, Chris' response was exceptional!!

Thanks Chris!
Marc

Whatr shipping company was used?

As many of you know, words cannot describe the image produced by these NEC panels. I'll try, but first a sincere thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma. He is professional, courteous, and informative. Most importantly, he executes. I ordered my 42XR4A last Saturday, and the only thing Chris didn't deliver that I asked for was a Patriots win... :( All week, Chris kept in touch with me via email and provided tracking information on Wednesday (everyone lost a day to the Monday holiday...) and I was called Thursday to schedule delivery... for Friday between 12-3.

Like a ten year old the night before Christmas, I tossed and turned with visions of tiny pixels dancing in my head. After a quick morning in the office, I sped home wondering what time the "big boy" would arrive. As I pulled up, I wondered no more, for there he was, right at my door! It took me about an hour to set up the stand, position the panel on it and connect cables for a Comcast DVR, LG LDA-511 DVD and Yamaha receiver. If possible, I suggest attaching cables with the panel flat on a soft surface. In particular, the HDMI cables were tough to attach as they are underneath the panel. fyi, I ran digital optical audio from the DVD to the receiver and digital coax from the Comcast box. With all systems go, I turned on the DVR, receiver and panel. Wow. Like Dave, the astronaut in "2001 - A Space Odyssey," I'm sure my face was full of wonder as this amazing image overwhelmed my senses...

When I finally came to, I wanted to test every DVD I owned... I did check out "Batman Begins," "Austin Powers - Goldmember," and "Jaws" when my son came home. All looked very good, but I think the "upconverting" feature of the DVD is somewhat hype. I couldn't tell much difference between 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i... I think I'll be investing in a higher-end DVD like a Denon. Any suggestions? Anyway, HDTV is what really rocks this panel. The INHD channels on Comcast show stunning images made for HD. I felt like I was there as the cameras raced through the canals of Venice and slowly toured the great museums of Europe. I've seen HD on a 42" LG panel and on a 42" Samsung DLP set. To my eyes, they simply do not compare to the 42XR4A. Colors are vibrant and lifelike. Black is black. Resolution is crystal clear. The glass reflection is really not noticable. Even SDTV looks great! That surprised me as I've seen it look less than stellar on the other sets.

All that aside, I got this thing primarily for sports and movies. Unfortunately, the biggest drawback is the lack of HD content available, even with the premium channel feeds Comcast threw in for a free teaser. I mean, ESPNHD was broadcasting a late game and it wasn't in HD! What's up with that? As I headlined, the Celtics game was amazing! It was like I had a seat looking out the window of a luxury box, except there was no window on the box because I could hear every sneaker squeak. I don't think it was the HD, but the young Celtics beat the Nets, 99-96. It was the first game of the season I really paid attention to. The image is that good. Anyway, I'm hopeful HD content will increase rapidly and I can't wait for the NFL conference championships tomorrow.

Until then, it will be last season's "24" on DVD, "Million Dollar Baby" in HD that I recorded last night at midnight, "Son Volt in Concert" that I recorded while watching "Sideways," and finally, shopping for a Harmony remote. Any suggestions for that?

For those of you considering this panel, I'll answer any questions I can... It rocks!

I am not the an expert like others out here on this forum. But is it really a minus that the NECs don't have built-in tuner since almost every other consumer plasma has one built-in? Also, can I get away with using the tuner that the cable company provides or do I have to invest more $$ for a tuner? A retailer even told me that TVs with built-in tuners have better pictures since you don't have to deal with wires...

What are the pros and cons of having a built-in tuner? Thanks.

Built in tuner's offer limited advantages. The only real advantage is you lose the box. I have a hard time believing that a cable card device designed in cooperation with the cable industry will actually produce a better picture than a STB/tuner from Sony, Samsung, or LG. 2 way Cablecard is not yet available so DVR/VOD functions will not work anyway and still require a STB. The OTA tuner inside my Panasonic was mediocre and had bad ergonomic design (couldn't manually add channels, channels drop off of list and you have to constantly rescan).

It's like everything else, since the internal tuner's have only been in place for a few generations, they're more immature in their implementation at this point than what you'll get from a nice STB.

"Sideways," and finally, shopping for a Harmony remote. Any suggestions for that?

For those of you considering this panel, I'll answer any questions I can... It rocks!
.
Great
I have the newest harmony 890. It works great . Large number of functions .I would recommend to check out other touch screen universal remote . Logitech's s screen is small . You will have the TV functions spread in 7 pages. That 's lot of buttons and is annouying at times. It does have infra red remote . You can shut off devices without being physically in the room .
The new XR5 series NEC is not in logitech's database . I have named my TV as XR5.
The channel numbers are at bottom and it is painful to hold and press the cahnnel at the same time . I would also recommend looking at Marantz and phillips remotes as well.
Logitech needs to make the screen size bigger.

Whatr shipping company was used?

It was mach1air. Tis may have been 1 in a thousand cases, and I got the unlucky draw - it happens. I will say that even though both deliveries were "curbside," the drivers helped me carry the box inside and were very patient, helping me open the box and unpack enough to check for damage.

It was mach1air. Tis may have been 1 in a thousand cases, and I got the unlucky draw - it happens. I will say that even though both deliveries were "curbside," the drivers helped me carry the box inside and were very patient, helping me open the box and unpack enough to check for damage.


Mine was delivered by mach 1 air . Great service .
This may have been an isolated incidence.

Can somebody PM me with 1) cleveland chris's phone # and 2) the price you paid for this baby? I need to pull the trigger soon. Thanks!

Got my 50xr5 yesterday. I am a first time plasma owner moving up from a 36 inch Panasonic HDTV capable CRT. I am very happy so far with the xr5. Thank you to everyone on the forum for all the great information and reviews. I bought the xr5 without seeing it at a store and I wouldn't have been able to do this without this forum. The panel has first class build quality and is very sophisticated looking. Picture quality is excellent. I am particularly happy with the flexibility of PIP and stretch features. The ability to customize the picture and save multiple settings is also a plus. Also, I am using the built in audio amplifier to drive my infinity bookshelf speakers which saves me the cost of buying a separate amplifier. The amplifier is probably not enough to drive power hungry speakers but is enough in my system.

I want to thank Chris at Cleveland Plasma. The level of customer service could not have been better. He was very patient with me and answered all the questions that I had as a first time plasma buyer. He arranged delivery for me with a shipping company that would help me to bring the set into my apt. The driver actually helped me to unbox the set and put it on the stand. Chris was excellent in communicating the status of the order from start to end. He made sure that I would have the stand (which was sent from a different location) before the plasma was delivered by sending it out 2nd-day delivery. I highly recommend Chris to others on this forum.

Can somebody PM me with 1) cleveland chris's phone # and 2) the price you paid for this baby? I need to pull the trigger soon. Thanks!

If Chris hasn't already contacted you, look at the bottom of this screen - there's a link to his site in the Text Sponsors bar.

While I have a few minute before heading out for the evening, I thought I'd post some links to pictures I promised earlier of the PIP and PBP screenshots I took today. Please ignore the poor quality - as I mentioned in an earlier post, I only have a 2.1 mp digicam. However, for those that were interested in this feature, here you go :)

PIP VGA on main with HDMI HD in window (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2561/pipvgahd4ci.jpg)

PIP component HD on main with HDMI HD in window (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3272/pipcomponenthdmi6fr.jpg)

Worth noting here: while you can move the PIP window to any of the 4 corners, you cannot resize it. And, yes, it's borderless as someone else mentioned earlier.

Side by Side VGA and HDMI HD (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/50/pbpvgahd9uy.jpg)

Side by Side component HD and HDMI HD (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4327/pbpcomponenthdmi7ji.jpg)

While I personally never found a lot of use for these features, they do make better use of the NEC's inputs than some of the other panels out there.

Dave

Hmmmmm

This topic has been floating around the forum without any hits being taken by NEC (AFAIK).

Please do report back on whether you need to introduce audio delay, and whether it is source specific.

TIA

Okay, here's my report back. No problems with delay. I don't know if it is just because I don't notice it, or if the SA8300HD autmatically introduces delay whether you are using the digital or analog audio outputs. But in any case, the audio and video match enough that I don't notice anything. Is there a better test than just lip reading?

Also, PS2 over component has no delay as well. As soon as I hit a button on my controller, the video response is instant. I wish I could get my hands on an xbox360 to test out the HD resolutions... but since the NEC does such a good job at displaying SD, I'm just fine until the PS3 comes out!

There aren't a whole lot of NEC "in home" pictures, so I thought I'd share mine. It's incomplete (cabinet underneath still shipping), but should give you a good idea of what a 50XR5 looks like flat mounted on the wall. Sheesh, my polk satellites sure look puny.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7338/rnotleynec011ki.th.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rnotleynec011ki.jpg)

There aren't a whole lot of NEC "in home" pictures, so I thought I'd share mine. It's incomplete (cabinet underneath still shipping), but should give you a good idea of what a 50XR5 looks like flat mounted on the wall. Sheesh, my polk satellites sure look puny.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7338/rnotleynec011ki.th.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rnotleynec011ki.jpg)

That' s neat.

Does anyone think it will be worth it to get this thing professionally calibrated? Also does anyone have any good out of box tested settings they can give me for an immediate good picture?

Thanks so much I am counting the days till mine arrives and hopefully screens will be on the way.

Yeah, let's get some more pics on here to pull some people off the fences and get those triggers pulled!! :D

Here's my setup from the couch viewing position (click for larger version):

http://www.zouyun.com/nec_front_small.jpg (http://www.zouyun.com/nec_front_large.jpg)



From the kitchen with the Chief mount extended 3 feet:

http://www.zouyun.com/nec_extended_small.jpg (http://www.zouyun.com/nec_extended_large.jpg)



Extend from the side (cable management needs a little work). This mount fricken rocks:

http://www.zouyun.com/nec_extended_side_small.jpg (http://www.zouyun.com/nec_extended_side_large.jpg)



Here's my RTI T3 remote, which puts everything into perspective (and all those remotes in the drawer):

http://www.zouyun.com/rti_t3_small.jpg (http://www.zouyun.com/rti_t3_large.jpg)

Enjoy!!


Aaron

Does anyone think it will be worth it to get this thing professionally calibrated? Also does anyone have any good out of box tested settings they can give me for an immediate good picture?

Thanks so much I am counting the days till mine arrives and hopefully screens will be on the way.


cpcat, posted a couple of settings awhile back too, but out of the box they're really not too bad. I would just bump the contrast and brightness down a bit, switch it to theatre 1 (a little darker) and make sure to ramp the sharpness down really low. I am not really sure why they have it so high from the factory but the sharpness introduced many unwanted artifacts in my opinion. I have mine set at around 3 or 4 (16 is default I think).

If you start messing with the bias and gain colors under the color temp setting you can tweak the pic a little more too.

good luck and post some pics when you can

Yeah, let's get some more pics on here to pull some people off the fences and get those triggers pulled!! :D

Here's my setup from the couch viewing position (click for larger version):

http://www.zouyun.com/nec_front_small.jpg (http://www.zouyun.com/nec_front_large.jpg)



From the kitchen with the Chief mount extended 3 feet:

http://www.zouyun.com/nec_extended_small.jpg (http://www.zouyun.com/nec_extended_large.jpg)



Extend from the side (cable management needs a little work). This mount fricken rocks:

http://www.zouyun.com/nec_extended_side_small.jpg (http://www.zouyun.com/nec_extended_side_large.jpg)



Here's my RTI T3 remote, which puts everything into perspective (and all those remotes in the drawer):

http://www.zouyun.com/rti_t3_small.jpg (http://www.zouyun.com/rti_t3_large.jpg)

Enjoy!!


Aaron


Sweet!!
That 's an expensive but great remote .
Did you try others as well.
I like the thick hand buttons and a large LCD.

I didn't try any others. I horse-traded for this one. I've wanted it ever since I saw it at CEDIA...

You're right, the buttons on the T3 are excellent, and the touchscreen is just the right size. One other positive is the software that you can use to really personalize the interface.

Thanks for the compliment :)

Does anyone think it will be worth it to get this thing professionally calibrated? Also does anyone have any good out of box tested settings they can give me for an immediate good picture?

Thanks so much I am counting the days till mine arrives and hopefully screens will be on the way.


I've experimented quite a bit with this. Use AVIA or THX optimizer to set brightness/contrast. Hue at the defailt setting seems to be about correct.
Theater 1 or Normal pic modes both seem good. I agree with turning sharpness all the way down if you are using HDMI/DVI. I use an external scaler and my contrast/bightness will be different than yours, but right now here are my other setttings:

Pic mode normal
Temperature settings
*RG 30
*GG 32
*BG 29
*BR 50
*BG 49
*BB 54
Gamma 2.2
Low tone auto
Pedestal 0

I set my color saturation through the scaler. It seems to look the best to me slightly undersaturated if you go by the AVIA blue color bars.

Look at the vertical and horizontal grey ramps on AVIA and the temp settings above should provide smoother ramps. The best default temperature mode seems to be middle low if you want a quick and dirty setup.

As an aside, I'm typing this with a wireless keyboard and looking at my pdp as I type. It's a nice picture for surfing the forum as well. :)

Is there any overscan with the nec 50xr5 and if there is how can we correct it?

There's not much overscan. It's around 2 percent as I remember for various sources, but you can adjust as necessary through the image size/position controls.

Worth noting here: while you can move the PIP window to any of the 4 corners, you cannot resize it. And, yes, it's borderless as someone else mentioned earlier.

While I personally never found a lot of use for these features, they do make better use of the NEC's inputs than some of the other panels out there.

Dave

The PIP & side-by-side are actually adjustable/resizeable, although the manual is pretty confusing at describing the specifics.

Once you turn on PIP, pressing "down" on the position control will cycle through the different sizes of the PIP window, up to several sizes larger than those in Dave's useful pictures. Pressing L/R will move the PIP window to other corners.

When side-by-side mode is in use, pushing the position control buttons will expand the selected window vertically or horizontally, so you aren't locked in to 2 windows exactly the same size.

Is anyone in the Southeastern Michigan area able to show me their NEC 50XR5 in action? I'd like to see it in person if possible, if only for a few minutes.

Thanks

Okay, here's my report back. No problems with delay. I don't know if it is just because I don't notice it, or if the SA8300HD autmatically introduces delay whether you are using the digital or analog audio outputs. But in any case, the audio and video match enough that I don't notice anything.
Thanks for the report motley. This thing keeps lookin better 'n better!

It seems like the PQ really does get better as the panel breaks in...anyone else agree?I do agree it seems to get better with time. Hard to say whether it's break-in or whether the adjustments you make are the difference.
This is really strange, but I've noticed the same thing. I haven't made any picture setting changes since the first day, but it really does seem like the picture has a slightly better PQ now than it did when I first got it. It hasn't even been a week, but I've been leaving the white screen on when I'm sleeping.

Is this for real, or just an illusion?

I think I'm close to the 100 hour mark. I think cpcat mentioned you can view the number of hours the panel has been on from the service menu..... need to look into that.

Wow just got my nec 50xr5 with stand and all I can say is wow. The colors are so bright. If anyone can tell me how to post some pics I will for everyone.

If anyone can tell me how to post some pics I will for everyone.www.imageshack.us worked for me. Post 'em up!!

So dewsky, now that you have your NEC, do you feel good about your choice? I seem to remember that you went thru a lot of back and forth when making your decision on what plasma to purchase.

Yes I am so glasd I got the nec I am watchin pirates of the caribbean and I am blown away. I saw the pioneer elite at a store near me and this tv blows it away. I just want to give a shout out also to Chris at Cleveland Plasma for his great service and support. The tv came in only 4 days and the stand came the same day. Thanks for everything chris and thanks for everything forum junkies. I will post pics soon

Ok here you go sry If they dont look perfect I just shot quickly and my camera isnt great.
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/4739/picture0181gb.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7596/picture0199xe.jpg

I know this is stupid but can cpcat tell me what does the RG, GG ,etc mean in your post of the settings I couldnt find those acronyms anywhere is the plasma menu. I am refferring to

Temperature settings
*RG 30
*GG 32
*BG 29
*BR 50
*BG 49
*BB 54
And what do you mean by pedestal 0

Dewsky, you can adjust the different Red Gain (RG) or Bias Red (BR), etc. under the color temp settings. Hit enter when your on the color temp setting such as mid or mid-low to adjust them. For Pedestal he means "set-up-level". I think there are three settings for this, 0, 3.75% and 7.5%. Anything more than 0 looks a little to dark for me.

PS - Anyone else have an HDTIVO with one of these yet?

Congrats to Motley, Zouyun, and Dewsky!

Great pics as well. *Much* better than I could do with my ancient camera.

Dewsky, sorry about the abbreviations. Those are the red, green, and blue gain and bias adjustments found if you select the color temp in the user menu. These are grey scale adjustments. You won't find this in the user menus of most pdp's. There are also seperate color tune adjustments as well. I've played with the grey scale while looking at the vertical/horizontal grey ramps on AVIA. The smoother the ramp, the less banding you'll see when watching real material as well. Obviously, a pro ISF'er could do it more precisely but I still think it helps. The pedestal is the IRE setting at which you set the black. Typically, it's 7.5 for Video and 0 for PC. However, when using HDMI setting HDMI to "high" in the setup menu takes care of that already so you need to set pedestal to zero for Video. Using component, set pedestal to 7.5 assuming you are using a standard video input.

I'd be a little careful with letterboxed DVD's for awhile if I were you (anything with AR more than 1.85:1). I doubt it would cause any permanent burn-in, but it will raise your anxiety level a bit while you are waiting for it to go away. The ghosting seems to get much less noticeable after 100 hours or so. I didn't use the white screen to speed break-in but this seems like a good idea.

I'm using my 50XR5 for PC now and the ghosting is no longer a problem.

Yes I am so glasd I got the nec I am watchin pirates of the caribbean and I am blown away. I saw the pioneer elite at a store near me and this tv blows it away.


well to be honest, virtually every new plasma owner says something like this about their new display, regardless of brand, in comparison to any other brand examined in a store setting. Not to doubt that NEC has a great picture, just that I don't find that these kind of comparisons very useful to someone considering options (unless you were able to get both competing models in the same store for your comparison, ideally side-by-side).

In any case, The Pirates of the Caribbean shot looks very good, regardless of the quality of your digital camera/uploading.

Can anyone confirm that the 42XR4 is the newest model? Another words, would this model be like an 8th generation Panny as far as the most recent improvements?

yes it's the latest gen.

the screen is improved from the previous 42" nec.

however, the 50" might have the same glass as last year's.

Hope I have done this right. Just recieved my 42XR4 from Chris at Cleveland Plasma yesterday and I will say it is as good as I had hoped. I hooked it up with an HDMI cable with a HD Comcast box/DVR and also tested it with the composite cables (red,green,blue) they provide but did not notice a big difference. As I get used to it i will post my thouights and some pictures of my set-up.

well to be honest, virtually every new plasma owner says something like this about their new display, regardless of brand, in comparison to any other brand examined in a store setting. Not to doubt that NEC has a great picture, just that I don't find that these kind of comparisons very useful to someone considering options (unless you were able to get both competing models in the same store for your comparison, ideally side-by-side).

In any case, The Pirates of the Caribbean shot looks very good, regardless of the quality of your digital camera/uploading.

So what's your point? Maybe he wasn't nesessarily trying to fulfill your needs for a comparison in the first place. :rolleyes:

All I can say is for my eyes the nec looks better. This was in a home theatre store where the pioneer was calibrated professionally and it is right down from my house so to me I can see a difference. This is just my opinion and like cpcat said I am not trying to sway anyone or make anyones decision for them I am just letting everyone else out there who wont be able to do a side by side comparison that the nec at least in my eyes comes very close to the pioneer elite.

For those of you getting HD receiption via OTA -- How are you tuning the channels? Did you have to purchase a separate tuner?

I currently use a regular DTV package and don't want to get the DTV HD package just yet.

thanks

I'm now looking at the 50XR5 box sitting in my living room, and with the worst possible timing my wife sprained her ankle last night, so she can't help me mount it.

I've got my camera at the ready, so if there are any pictures of the plasma that people have wanted before it gets mounted, speak now.

Interesting Fact #1: Crate dimensions are 53.9"L x 35.0"H x 15.7"D

I watched the Warrior's Basketball game last night in HD. I was completely blown away how this picture looked. - It was pure 35mm. It was just incredible. You could read the lip of the players as they talked. One more thing ---this is the first time I have every watched a BB game on TV.

** In addition, it appears the PQ looks better after warming up. But not sure, just a new observation.
db

For those of you getting HD receiption via OTA -- How are you tuning the channels? Did you have to purchase a separate tuner?

I currently use a regular DTV package and don't want to get the DTV HD package just yet.

thanks

I use the tuner in my HDTIVO without paying for the HD package from directv. My understanding is that all of their receivers are made that way. Therefore if you just want the OTA you can probably get on old sony or samsung directv hd receiver and use the ota function on it.


** In addition, it appears the PQ looks better after warming up. But not sure, just a new observation.
db

I agree, at first I thought I was nuts, but the PQ deffinitely does get better with time. It just seems like it gets a bit sharper with less noise/motion artifiacts. Maybe an illusion, but when I hear someone else say it too, it's kind of funny. Maybe we're both nuts! :D

So what's your point? Maybe he wasn't nesessarily trying to fulfill your needs for a comparison in the first place. :rolleyes:

just an observation. I had a feeling it might be taken as a criticism of the poster, but I really didn't mean for it to come off that way. I guess I'm just a little surprised whenever I ever see those kind of comments being made, knowing how imprecise they usually are. And I understand your point as well. His post wasn't so much an attempt to sway or make some definitive evaluation, but more as an enthusiastic, and perhaps even relieved, realization as to the quality of the plasma he had decided to plunk down his hard-earned cash for.

Btw, in light of dewsky's subsequent post and added contextual info, now I actually find his initial comment to be useful for a prospective buyer. Again, not that he necessarily intended for it to be taken in that way in the first place.

Hope I have done this right. Just recieved my 42XR4 from Chris at Cleveland Plasma yesterday and I will say it is as good as I had hoped. I hooked it up with an HDMI cable with a HD Comcast box/DVR and also tested it with the composite cables (red,green,blue) they provide but did not notice a big difference. As I get used to it i will post my thouights and some pictures of my set-up.
MSD20,

Congrats on your purchase. Please post some pictures soon and your impressions. I'm also looking at this 42" model as an alternative to a Panasonic. Thanks!

Emailed NEC today about difference in the new NEC 42 and 50 plasma's, response below:

The 42" is a new and improved design which results in better blacks and contrast ratio. It has a higher contrast ratio than the 50" plasmas.

just an observation. I had a feeling it might be taken as a criticism of the poster, but I really didn't mean for it to come off that way. I guess I'm just a little surprised whenever I ever see those kind of comments being made, knowing how imprecise they usually are. And I understand your point as well. His post wasn't so much an attempt to sway or make some definitive evaluation, but more as an enthusiastic, and perhaps even relieved, realization as to the quality of the plasma he had decided to plunk down his hard-earned cash for.

Btw, in light of dewsky's subsequent post and added contextual info, now I actually find his initial comment to be useful for a prospective buyer. Again, not that he necessarily intended for it to be taken in that way in the first place.

Wow. Impressive response. :)

Emailed NEC today about difference in the new NEC 42 and 50 plasma's, response below:

The 42" is a new and improved design which results in better blacks and contrast ratio. It has a higher contrast ratio than the 50" plasmas.

This is great for the 42 in. owners. But don't be concerned necessarily if you have the 50. It's common for the smaller panels to have higher measured contrast ratio. For example, the current 42 inch Panny is 4000:1 compared to the 50 which is 3000:1.

Emailed NEC today about difference in the new NEC 42 and 50 plasma's, response below:

The 42" is a new and improved design which results in better blacks and contrast ratio. It has a higher contrast ratio than the 50" plasmas.


Has anybody seen both? How big does the difference seem to you. I wonder why they would not use the newer glass on the bigger plasmas. Anybody?

My theory is that the glass used in the 50" is the newest available because it was just updated last december which could have been the newest glass and at this time there may not be any new glass available. They could have updated the glass but they probably had no need because updating the electronics improves the picture quality probably enough to be competitive.

This is great for the 42 in. owners. But don't be concerned necessarily if you have the 50. It's common for the smaller panels to have higher measured contrast ratio. For example, the current 42 inch Panny is 4000:1 compared to the 50 which is 3000:1.


42ED is 4000:1. The HD version is 3000:1 ;)

I agree, at first I thought I was nuts, but the PQ deffinitely does get better with time. It just seems like it gets a bit sharper with less noise/motion artifiacts. Maybe an illusion, but when I hear someone else say it too, it's kind of funny. Maybe we're both nuts! :D


I second this observation .
The PQ gradually improves as time goes by. The image after just turning on TV is a lot different than the image an hour later.
Call me whatever , but this observation is fairly consistent.
I bet there is a techinical explanantion for this .

Just finished setting up the 50XR5. Thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma! The panel is everything I expected.

Pic! (http://www.popsiclecan.com/mike_50XR5.jpg)

Just finished setting up the 50XR5. Thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma! The panel is everything I expected.

Pic! (http://www.popsiclecan.com/mike_50XR5.jpg)

Holy crap! :eek: That alone makes me want to buy one right now. Too bad the WAF is making me wait until we're in our house first :rolleyes:

42ED is 4000:1. The HD version is 3000:1 ;)

Sorry, thanks for the correction. Don't lose the point here though. The smaller plasmas will typically have higher measured contrast in large part due to being brighter.

I tried to post a picture but the message said I needed to make 5 posts before submitting one due to spam. I will say I picked up the box from Comcast as I did not want to wait a week for them to come out. I could not change the setting from 480 to 720 or 1080 with the remote so I called them. The customer service rep I spoke to said the box could not be changed! I said that was not possible but she insisted. It was late so I got the bright idea to check the box itself(Explorer 8300D) and after experimenting I found you can change it only from the box itself not the remote. All I can say is WOW! The picture is GREAT! When I am able to post a picture I will also post a picture of the box and where to change it if some of you out there have one as well.

Sorry, thanks for the correction. Don't lose the point here though. The smaller plasmas will typically have higher measured contrast in large part due to being brighter.

Exactly, in the case of the 4000:1 to 3000:1 disparity with the Panasonics, it's because the ED has much larger pixels (same screen size, but less pixels). Larger pixels mean higher ratio of lit area to cell boundary, so brighter picture.

I tried to post a picture but the message said I needed to make 5 posts before submitting one due to spam. I will say I picked up the box from Comcast as I did not want to wait a week for them to come out. I could not change the setting from 480 to 720 or 1080 with the remote so I called them. The customer service rep I spoke to said the box could not be changed! I said that was not possible but she insisted. It was late so I got the bright idea to check the box itself(Explorer 8300D) and after experimenting I found you can change it only from the box itself not the remote. All I can say is WOW! The picture is GREAT! When I am able to post a picture I will also post a picture of the box and where to change it if some of you out there have one as well.

msd,

check the manual. I think you can set that box to do a native passthrough so that whatever is being broadcast (480i, 720p, or 1080i) will automatically be sent to the NEC. I will be getting one of these installed on Saturday so will let you know what I find. Let me know if you figure it out in the meantime.

Can someone tell me after the first 100 hours of burn in will it be ok for me to watch widescreen dvds with the black bars on the top and bottom. I am so worried about burn in because even just going from the title screen to the dvd screen with the greeen box that tells about the ratings I can see some image retention from the title box. Can someone who has had the nec 50xr5 for a while tell me their thoughts plz.

msd,

check the manual. I think you can set that box to do a native passthrough so that whatever is being broadcast (480i, 720p, or 1080i) will automatically be sent to the NEC. I will be getting one of these installed on Saturday so will let you know what I find. Let me know if you figure it out in the meantime.

Thanks, Tony
That would be much easier.
I will look. The problem with the manual is it actually did not say how to do the adjustment I made. I will check and also check the "net" as well. I will post if I find it.
Mike

Can someone tell me after the first 100 hours of burn in will it be ok for me to watch widescreen dvds with the black bars on the top and bottom. I am so worried about burn in because even just going from the title screen to the dvd screen with the greeen box that tells about the ratings I can see some image retention from the title box. Can someone who has had the nec 50xr5 for a while tell me their thoughts plz.

dewsky,

Yes, you'll be fine. There is a big difference between image ghosting (what your seeing) and burn-in. I think you'll be safe to watch black bars after the 100 hours, just use some common sense (like not doing a weekend marathon of 2.35:1 movies). I can tell you that my other NEC acted the same way for a couple of hundred hours, but after about 500 or so the image ghosting is all but gone. My son does all day gaming on that tv now and I have no worries of burn-in.

I'll stop my rambling, but to sum it up, you'll be fine. I would just use a little caution for the first 500 or 1000 hours and then never worry about it again. That's just me though.

:) Well I joined the 50XR5 family yesterday, thanks to Chris at Cleveland Plasma. Chris was great to work with and I would deal him again in a heartbeat.

I look forward to get this baby through the first 100 hours. The purchase was really a tough decision since I had not had a chance to see the 50xr5 before buying. I have done a lot of research and seen other NEC product that impressed me but it was this forum that gave me the confidence to go forward sight unseen. Your comments as to PQ and technical specs really assured me that this is a product that is top notch and after one night of viewing I am pleased.

So a large collective pat on the back to this forum and to Chris. :)

Thanks!!
Rick

With all that has been written about the "newness" of the 42XR4 vs. the 50XR5, for me it comes down to a comparison of the black level between these two sets first, and then a comparison between the 42XR4 and the Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK. Has anyone made these comparisons, either with objective lab tests or subjective eyeball tests?

yet another new NEC owner here....my 42XR4 arrived yesterday in great shape. I had to wait like 4 hours for my fiance to get home and help me mount it on the stand! It killed me!

i'm totally stoked about our decision to send back the Dell W4021c and get the 42XR4. I was surprised to find out that my moto box will output via HDMI and component at the same time, so I was able to do some side-by-side tests! (Dell's coming to get their set this afternoon). I figured a good way to review the NEC would be to compare it to the Dell....I know some of you would think "well, yeah, it will kill a crappy Dell", but the Dell PQ is pretty damn good. In fact, we went to a few big box stores to check out Panasonics (500U's), and both my fiance and I thought the Dell could hang with the Panny in many regards...in other words, before we got the NEC, I thought the Dell's PQ was top notch.

We did a couple switch back-and-forths between component and HDMI, and ended up giving the Dell the HDMI to even the playing field a bit. Also note that I tweaked the Dell for weeks to get the picture right, but only took a few minutes to set-up the NEC. I started out with cpcat's contrast/bright/sharpness setting from his 50". The out-of-box picture of the NEC was a little red, but I turned the red down a bit, and all hints of "too-red" disappeared.

So here it goes:

PICTURE QUALITY: Within seconds (literally!) we could tell that the NEC was superior on both SD and HD. Before changing any of the settings, the colors of the NEC were so much more saturated than the Dell. I don't know if this is a function of the scaler, or the 67 billion colors, but the colors of the NEC are amazing. Skin tones especially. Faces just come to life. But the most dramatic improvement is shadow and highlight detailing. There were sooooo many instances when you couldn't even see a dark object in the Dell that you could make out on the NEC. Any time a scence was very dark or very light, the NEC's picture included objects that the Dell didn't pick up...very cool. I guess the flip side of this would be that the Dell's blacks are blacker than the NEC's. But they're not real! They're like TOO black. When an object is truly black on the NEC - it's truly black. When it's not truly black, you can see the details.

STANDARD DEFINITION: Viewing of SD channels is probably where the NEC really rips the Dell a new one. The stadium function of the NEC does such an awesome job of NOT making images look fat. During face shots it was soooo obvious how the Dell was making people look fat. (it's amazing that this didn't bother me before) This is really the only place where my camera could do justice for the comparison. See for yourself - look at the attached pics of shots from Scrubs...the Dell is in front.

REMOTE CONTROLS: This is really the only place where the Dell excels. I really don't like the remote of either set, but I have to say I like the Dell remote better. It's better looking, and you don't have to point the remote DIRECTLY at the sensor to make it work (you have to be precise with the NEC)

OPTIONS: The menus and number of settings/options on the NEC are awesome. You can change the menu position, the menu contrast, any color setting you can think of, there's like 10 modes of picture saver (image retention reducer), etc. If you want to change it on the NEC, you can. The Dell gives the user limited ability to adjust things.

IMAGE RETENTION: Like any new set, I can definitely see a little bit of ghosting on the NEC. It's just the nature of plasmas....But I think the Dell was much worse at ghosting when it was brand new. The NEC's ghosted images go away much quicker. This was one of the main things that got me motivated to return the Dell. Either way, I can't wait to have lots of hours on the NEC...I hate having to babysit the TV (e.g. zoom in during commercials)...I should admit though that I'm a little anal about making sure there's no chance of ghosting.

AESTHETICS: Before we got the NEC, I thought the Dell was one of the best looking sets...but man the NEC looks SOOO sweet! Full-on professional looking display. The stand especially looks really nice. If there's one thing where the NEC definitely kills the Panny it's in looks. This thing is hot! My finace quickly got over the "bevelled glass" bezel on the bottom. You can't even really see it, and the overall look is just awesome.

That's about all that I can think of now...overall, I'm stoked!

Another shout out to Chris at Cleveland Plasma for seeing me through this...his customer service is top notch.

i was on the nec website looking at the manual about resolution capabilities, i do not know if i was reading it wrong but i did not see antive res support for hdmi ( which is what i would do with dvdo vp30). also it seems that the nec drops the resolution to 1024 by 768 with higher than 720 resolutions (i think that is what the astercks ment? is all this true, my only concern is getting true native resol to the panel to decrease the extra processing.
-rob

Can Anyone tell me if it is better to have my cable box(explorer 8300hd) set to output as passthru or fixed. I figured fixed scales the output via the box and passthru allows the nec to scale. Which one is going to be more beneficial.

Can Anyone tell me if it is better to have my cable box(explorer 8300hd) set to output as passthru or fixed. I figured fixed scales the output via the box and passthru allows the nec to scale. Which one is going to be more beneficial.

dewsky, I am willing to bet the scaler in the NEC is far superior to the 8300HD. I would set it to passthrough. Try them both out and see which one will give you the best PQ. I'd be interested too, as I am getting this box this weekend.

Oysterhead,

Would you mind posting the height of the XR4 from the table surface to the top of the screen, and the width also if you would be so kind. Thank you in advance.

Cleveland Plasma ... Dear Chris,

Have you had the opportunity to make any of the direct comparisons that I mentioned above? By the way, you are making quite a good impression for yourself with all of the "Happy Campers" that you are producing! You obviously take great pride in your customers' satisfaction...kudos.

I must be the only guy who hasn't immediately hooked up my plasma! It has been in its box in my living room for 9 days now. I am finishing up other home projects, and I just haven't gotten to it. Shoot me.

I have heard two burn-in methods on which I'd like a little more detail. The first is looping a DVD for a week. How do you set up this playing style? I didn't know DVD players would continuously play a DVD without going back to the title menu?

The second is this white screen. I haven't double checked the manual, though I have read thru the *.pdf once. You are saying there is a setting that will display a solid white screen, and just leave that going for 5 days? How has this worked out for any of you?

Someone said be careful with black bars for the first 1000 hours. Haha! That's almost 6 months at 6 hours of viewing every single day! Sheesh, just the ticket for anal retentive types. I'd like to set SD to stadium, choose HD primetime whenever possible, most movies are 16:9 anyway, and try to enjoy the panel.

TOMBOYTER^^^^

What you are asking of course is subject to opinion.

That being said the 42" and the 50" NEC's are similar in there deep, dark black level. Comparing the Panasonic 42PHD8UK to the NEC 42XR4 is a much easier because there are still people around complaining about the black level shift in the Panasonic. (short answer)

i was on the nec website looking at the manual about resolution capabilities, i do not know if i was reading it wrong but i did not see antive res support for hdmi ( which is what i would do with dvdo vp30). also it seems that the nec drops the resolution to 1024 by 768 with higher than 720 resolutions (i think that is what the astercks ment? is all this true, my only concern is getting true native resol to the panel to decrease the extra processing.
-rob

I suspect it does support native over HDMI. I'm typing this with native rate via a Lumagen scaler on the 50XR5 over HDMI. Native rate support has been somewhat of a forte for NEC. Here's a copy of a recent letter from NEC tech support. It doesn't mention the 42 inch models but again I'd be surprised if they weren't included. You could call the number at the bottom to confirm.

"First we want to say that we are sorry you’re having such difficulties with your installation. Let’s clarify a few things before we answer your last question. In earlier Support Tracker emails it appears as though one of our past employees sent you some timings that they should not have sent. Those timings referred to the 1365x768 resolution. There is also some confusion back and forth as to what signals are supported and what are not, again we are sorry. In October 2005 NEC will introduce the TheaterSync video processor/scaler. The TheaterSync does have an output resolution choice of 1365x768 as stated in the color brochure. The following plasmas do (will continue) to support 1365x768 on the DVI input only. (PX-50XM4, PX-50XR4, PX-61XM3, PX-61XR3 as well as future models) You will not see any mention of this within the User Manual. Given the fact that it looks like you have tried programming the 1365x768 into your scaler you can try the following. Go to RGB Select and place it in “AUTO”. Go to the Source Information screen to see what signal the plasma is locking on to. It should say 1365x768 @ location 18. If it does not provide that exact information, the plasma is not receiving the correct signal. The 1365x768 timing was created for NEC and our respective OEM customers. Thank you for your understanding. Best Regards NEC VSD Customer Service/Technical Support 1-800-836-0655"


.
It's not surprising at all that the manual states that higher resolutions will be converted to 1024 x 768 on the 42 inch model.
Any resolution other than native will be converted to the native resolution of the display. This is true with all digital displays.

dewsky, I am willing to bet the scaler in the NEC is far superior to the 8300HD. I would set it to passthrough. Try them both out and see which one will give you the best PQ. I'd be interested too, as I am getting this box this weekend.I have an SA-8300HD connected to my NEC 50XR5A via HDMI. There are a couple things I would recommend doing to get the best HD picture quality. The first is to set the SA to Auto DVI/HDMI. This is really the same thing as Pass-through, the SA just changes the wording depending on what output you are using.

Secondly, you should run through the SA-8300HD's setup to make sure that it will output HD at all possible resolutions. By default, the SA will *only* output HD at 1080i. To run the SA setup, first turn the power off on the SA, then hold down the INFO and GUIDE buttons (on the box). This starts setup, and choose advanced mode to run through the resolutions that the NEC will take. For me, it was all but one. Now, for example, the LED on the front of the SA say 720p when I watch ESPNHD. Honestly, I didn't notice the difference really, but I don't really know what to look for!! Still looks awesome to me.

Both tidbits of info, plus many others, can be found at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=471859.

The 42XR4 is 27.5" h x 40.5"w.

The height is measured with the stand from the table surface.


Oysterhead,

Would you mind posting the height of the XR4 from the table surface to the top of the screen, and the width also if you would be so kind. Thank you in advance.

I got my 42XR4 hooked up last night just in time for Lost, just like I had hoped when I ordered it. Unfortunately I didn't have to time adjust much before it came on since I had to do a complete entertainment cabinet overhaul, assemble the stand, mount the tv, put everything back in place, etc. So that meant I still had the cable box outputting 4:3 for most of it, and while it looked nice it was annoying that I couldn't get it to fit the screen right and my wife was yelling at me for trying to adjust the aspect ratios during the show.

Once I did get it dialed in for the last 10 minutes or so the bright scenes looked amazing. The scene where Charlie was swimming out to save the baby floating in the ocean looked stunning. Great color saturation and crisp detail in the waves and Charlie. The dark scenes left a little something to be desired, probably because I didn't attempt to calibrate the contrast and brightness, but just turned them down about halfway from the mid-point default setting. I also had to turn the reds down a little becuase they seemed pushed a bit out of the box.

One thing I forgot to do was look in the back to see the model number of the glass to compare them with the numbers published earlier for the 42 and 50 inch glass that may indicate they glass is reused from previous gens. It would be interesting to note if the 42 is the same or has changed since most seem to think the 42 glass is new and the 50 is the same. Maybe I can talk the wife into unhooking it and pulling it back down, or someone else who has easy access to the back of their panel could check it.

All in all I am very happy with my purchase so far and can't wait to see the results once I get some time to dial things in. Will post some pictures after I do some tweaking and get some time.

Thanks Oyster ! It will fit in my cabinet.

I. So that meant I still had the cable box outputting 4:3 for most of it, and while it looked nice it was annoying that I couldn't get it to fit the screen right and my wife was yelling at me for trying to adjust the aspect ratios during the show.

Once I did get it dialed in for the last 10 minutes or so......

N8G,

Are you sure you were even watching this on an HD channel? I didn't think it was possible to shrink a HD 16:9 source down to 4:3. I could be wrong though..

N8G,

Are you sure you were even watching this on an HD channel? I didn't think it was possible to shrink a HD 16:9 source down to 4:3. I could be wrong though..

Yeah, I checked the source feed and it was 720p and on channel 512 or whatever the HD channel is. The TV wasn't shrinking anything, it was the cable box, and I think it was blowing the image up and cutting off the top and bottom. Stupid thing. Any, I got it figured out now I believe.

One question though is what does your NEC allow you to select when watching a 16:9 HD source? I think my only options are anamorphic, stadium, and zoom. I had assumed that I would set it to normal, but it won't let me choose that. Manual isn't too clear on this, but I assume this is standard operation? When watching a DVD all display options are available.

N8G...720P and 1080i can only use those three stretch options. Anamorphic is actually the normal setting you should be using for 16:9 material. Zoom should be used with 2.35:1 material if you don't want bars and Stadium should be used with 4:3 material being broadcast on an HD channel. Don't really think you need anymore options than that in my opinion. DVD's are 480i or 480p and therefore would have all of the available stretch modes. Take care,

man Lost was amazing last night...I agree that the Charlie saving the baby scene was sweeeet....especially the part where Claire was like Mary....so cool.

Dell still hasn't picked up their display, so I'm still in "look at NEC, look at Dell, look at NEC, look at Dell" mode. It's starting to get annoying.

I've found that another big plus for the NEC is the PQ when looking from angles.

i noticed that when looking from the side, the pic on the Dell gets "fuzzy", while the NEC stays nice and crisp. I bet this is because the XR4's new screen is bonded, as opposed to having two seperate layers like other panels.

also, note that i edited my post above and attached the SD pics (the links didn't seem to be working). again, this is where the NEC is amazing. if anyone thinks that a large portion of their viewing will be SD, they should really consider the NEC's.

N8G...720P and 1080i can only use those three stretch options. Anamorphic is actually the normal setting you should be using for 16:9 material. Zoom should be used with 2.35:1 material if you don't want bars and Stadium should be used with 4:3 material being broadcast on an HD channel. Don't really think you need anymore options than that in my opinion. DVD's are 480i or 480p and therefore would have all of the available stretch modes. Take care,

Thanks Tony. I thought anamorphic was the "normal" settting for 16:9 after playing with it, but I just wanted to confirm this with you guys who have had their display for a while. Not sure why they didn't allow it to use the normal setting because at first I was worried it would be distorting the image somewhat. After close inspection I didn't see any distortion. Seems not as user friendly to be using anamorphic as the name on a 16:9 signal, but whatever, as long as it works.

i noticed that when looking from the side, the pic on the Dell gets "fuzzy", while the NEC stays nice and crisp. I bet this is because the XR4's new screen is bonded, as opposed to having two seperate layers like other panels.
Interesting! I wonder if the same (or similar) would apply to the difference between the 42XR4 and the 50XR5.

Chris @ Cleveland, care to weigh-in on this please?

TIA

Hi,
Some help please. I have the SA-8300HD. Picture looks great. The box was set at picture mode fixed so I decided to change it to their version of Pass Through.
I also went through the advanced set-up and chose every setting they would let me choose except 480P as it would not allow me to set it.
When I turned on the set the HD channels worked fine but when i switched to SD channel it changed to 480P and I got a blank screen. If I set it for 1080 only the picture is fine. Any ideas? I do not want to sound dumb but isn't the idea of pass through so if you watch SD it will fill the wide screen or do I have to stretch it?
Again, If I set the box at 1080i on the setup wizard and keep it at pass through it does what I want but only at 1080i. Am I making any sense?
Mike

PS I have a 42XR4

Since there seems to be some confusion as to what is different between the 50XR5 50XR4 and 42XR4 I thought I might be able just restate what is on the NEC website:

50XR4:
-Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Capsulated Color Filter Technology (CCF)
-AccuCrimson Filter Technology

50XR5:
-Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Capsulated Color Filter Technology (CCF)
-AccuCrimson Filter Technology
-Advanced AccuCrimson Filter Technology

42XR4:
-Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Advanced AccuCrimson Filter Technology
-Bonded Color Filter


So to clarify,
from the 50XR4->50XR5, we gain:
-Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Advanced AccuCrimson Filter Technology

From the 42XR4->50XR5, we gain:
-Capsulated Color Filter Technology
-AccuCrimson Filter Technology

And then the 42XR4 has a bonded color filter that the others do not.

Terms:
Mass Area Superior Sampling (MASS):Eliminates jagged lines and corrects color bleeds to create clear and defined images.

Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling: Eliminates jagged lines, removes color separation and smooths diagonal lines for crystal clear and defines sharp images

Capsulated Color Filter™ (CCF) technology: CCF delivers realistic color reproduction creating the greatest color space when plotted on the C.I.E. Chromaticity chart.

AccuCrimson™ Filter technology: Further enhances the effects of the CCF producing better reds and greens.

Advanced AccuCrimson™ Filter technology: Produces vivid accurate colors by eliminating unwanted internal neon light emission.

Bonded Color Filter: Improves color, bright room contrast and sharpness while reducing the multiple image reflections possible with traditional filter technologies

Since there seems to be some confusion as to what is different between the 50XR5 50XR4 and 42XR4 I thought I might be able just restate what is on the NEC website:

50XR4:
-Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Capsulated Color Filter Technology (CCF)
-AccuCrimson Filter Technology

50XR5:
-Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Capsulated Color Filter Technology (CCF)
-AccuCrimson Filter Technology
-Advanced AccuCrimson Filter Technology

42XR4:
-Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Advanced AccuCrimson Filter Technology
-Bonded Color Filter


So to clarify,
from the 50XR4->50XR5, we gain:
-Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Advanced AccuCrimson Filter Technology

From the 42XR4->50XR5, we gain:
-Capsulated Color Filter Technology
-AccuCrimson Filter Technology

And then the 42XR4 has a bonded color filter that the others do not.

Terms:
Mass Area Superior Sampling (MASS):Eliminates jagged lines and corrects color bleeds to create clear and defined images.

Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling: Eliminates jagged lines, removes color separation and smooths diagonal lines for crystal clear and defines sharp images

Capsulated Color Filter™ (CCF) technology: CCF delivers realistic color reproduction creating the greatest color space when plotted on the C.I.E. Chromaticity chart.

AccuCrimson™ Filter technology: Further enhances the effects of the CCF producing better reds and greens.

Advanced AccuCrimson™ Filter technology: Produces vivid accurate colors by eliminating unwanted internal neon light emission.

Bonded Color Filter: Improves color, bright room contrast and sharpness while reducing the multiple image reflections possible with traditional filter technologies

I'm guessing, but I think that the bonded color filter on the 42" panel might have a substantial impact on reducing image reflections and could be a significant improvement in panel technology. Reflectivity is often a function of the size of the gap between that part of the panel containing the phosphors and the protective glass filter that is at the very front surface. I would think that the smaller the gap between these 2 panes, the less potential for reflection. My guess - and it is only a guess - is that this gap is reduced if the filter is bonded in place as opposed to being attached in another fashion. I say this because bonded front windshields on cars tend to be more flush to the surface when compared to those that are not.

Since there seems to be some confusion as to what is different between the 50XR5 50XR4 and 42XR4 I thought I might be able just restate what is on the NEC website:


50XR5:
-Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Capsulated Color Filter Technology (CCF)
-AccuCrimson Filter Technology
-Advanced AccuCrimson Filter Technology

42XR4:
-Enhanced Mass Area Superior Sampling
-Advanced AccuCrimson Filter Technology
-Bonded Color Filter


So to clarify,

From the 42XR4->50XR5, we gain:
-Capsulated Color Filter Technology
-AccuCrimson Filter Technology

According to your post I think the XR5 has the Capsulated and AccuCrimson filter....so the only addition is the Bonded Color Filter.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. The on the 42XR4 vs the 50XR5, the 50 has AccuCrimson Filter and Capsulated Color Filter versus the 42's Bonded Color Filter. The 42 does not have AccuCrimson Filter, but has the advanced AccuCrimson Filter. Now what all this means, well that I don't know :)

PopsicleCan,

I don't know either!!! I was just noticing from your post it appeared the 50XR5 already had the AccuCrimson and the Capsulated Filters but that the 42XR4 was only adding the Bonded. What it all means in the end....I have no idea....I'm sure they both provide great images.

take care

Want another term to toss around?

I have a .pdf spec sheet that mentions a

"Crystal Clear Panel/Drive provides technology to improve brightness 130% and contrast
100% over previous models and also removes false contouring (42XR4 only)."

No mention in this spec sheet of an Advanced AccuCrimson feature on the 42XR4. :confused:

here's my take:

the 42XR4 has the Bonded Color Filter and Crystal Clear Panel.

both of these are improvements in technology over the corresponding components on the 50" and 61" displays.

other than size (which is probably the most important feature!!), the larger sets have no technology that is superior to the 42" components.

Anyone Know what the Height of the 50XR5 and 42XR4 are with the stand?

Thanks
- Steve

bvader
How Much Vertical Does The PX-ST2U Add
Anyone Know what the Height of the 50XR5 and 42XR4 are with the stand?


The 50xr5 and stand is 32.25 inches tall, the heavy duty manual swivel stand adds 3.25 to the set.

Hi,
Some help please. I have the SA-8300HD. Picture looks great. The box was set at picture mode fixed so I decided to change it to their version of Pass Through.
I also went through the advanced set-up and chose every setting they would let me choose except 480P as it would not allow me to set it.
When I turned on the set the HD channels worked fine but when i switched to SD channel it changed to 480P and I got a blank screen. If I set it for 1080 only the picture is fine. Any ideas? I do not want to sound dumb but isn't the idea of pass through so if you watch SD it will fill the wide screen or do I have to stretch it?
Again, If I set the box at 1080i on the setup wizard and keep it at pass through it does what I want but only at 1080i. Am I making any sense?
Mike

PS I have a 42XR4

Actually, I re-read the many posts on this and have solved the problem. I now have the 8300HD set through advanced set-ups and the picture mode through their version of pass through I believe called dvi/hdmi. I am very happy with the picture.
Thanks Mike

A quick picture of my set-up......42XR4
http://www.msdbak.com/necaa.jpg

just connected 50xr5a to dish network satellite feed and hd pic is spectacular. unfortunately we now live in a rural area so most of our programming is sd, which is not so spectacular. i saw the same dramatic difference with our last plasma in our previous home, but at least there we had cable and could get network feeds of hd from abc, nbc, cbs, fox, etc. so this isn't a slam on the nec plasma in any way. still, i'd like to make sd viewing as good as possible. anyone got any ideas on set up and calibration to optimize sd picture on this plasma?

This is the response I got from NEC regarding the input capabilities of the 50xm5 vs. the 50xr5.

"Thank you for contacting NEC! The HDMI input on the PX-50XR5A does not accept 1080P. The DVI input on the PX-50XM5A will accept 1080P. If BD-DVD and HD-DVD output 1080P on component, RGB or DVI the plasma should be able to accept that signal.

Best Regards
NEC VSD Customer Service
1-800-836-0655
www.necvisualsystems.com"

This should answer many questions for some and raise several for others...
Cheers

shane

Ill be happy with 1080p over component but for the most part I dont think it will matter because most companies will probably allow for some sort of internal scaling in their players to allow for hdmi at lower resolutions.

Can someone explain how the "STADIUM" mode actually changes 4:3 content to 16:9?

Can someone explain how the "STADIUM" mode actually changes 4:3 content to 16:9?

It stretches the material in the corners in both the verticle and horizontal direction, leaving the center of the display alone. This means that it gives a less distorted look for most material where the action or actors are in the center of the screen, i.e. less "fat head" when watching a news report. It works pretty well and I prefer it over the standard stretch mode.

P.S. Look at the user manual posted earlier in this thread (search for calim) to see NEC's description of it. It has little pictures that do a good job of illustrating the concept.

i have a question about standby vs. power:

do you guys leave your panel in standby most of the time, or do you actually toggle the on/off switch on the set?

I'm tempted to pretty much never toggle the on/off switch, and always leave in standby, but I'm not sure...

I've been leaving mine in standby right now. I figure that way the fans can run while it cools down after turning it off. I don't know if they actual do or not since I can't hear them, but I thought it can't hurt. NEC says it only draws 0.9W when in standby mode, so that is pretty much neglible on a power bill.

i have a question about standby vs. power:

do you guys leave your panel in standby most of the time, or do you actually toggle the on/off switch on the set?

I'm tempted to pretty much never toggle the on/off switch, and always leave in standby, but I'm not sure...


Standby ......

i have a question about standby vs. power:

do you guys leave your panel in standby most of the time, or do you actually toggle the on/off switch on the set?

I'm tempted to pretty much never toggle the on/off switch, and always leave in standby, but I'm not sure...

Definitely standby.

So I've had the television for a few days now, and I love it. I used to have an HLN series Samsung DLP, and I had no idea how much I was missing. I had NO idea that HD could look so good.

Right now I have it set to Theater 2 with the contrast and brightness set down halfway from their defaults. It is very very dark. Every now and then, I bump things up to Normal when watching stuff, and it's excellent.

Right now I have it set to Theater 2 with the contrast and brightness set down halfway from their defaults. It is very very dark.

So why are you doing this? As a break-in precaution?

When you say 1/2 of defaults, do you mean they're both set around 25?

yeah, break-in precaution.
Contrast 26
Brightness 16
Sharpness 0 (Just cause I think it looks better)
Picture Mode Theater2 (The darkest according to the manual)

So shadows are completely crushed, but it still looks better than my old DLP. I'll do this until the new tv smell wears off and I don't baby it anymore.

Anyone know whether it will be better to run my plasma under peak brightness of 75% or 100% I like the look of the 100% better but I am afraid about the screen losing some of its appeal after a little while from maxing out the brightness. Anyone have any opinions.

aren't the 100% and 75% just a scaling factor on the picture setting?

so, a 100% brightness with brightness set at 40 = brightness is at 40

a 75% brightness with brightness set at 40 = brightness is at 30

or not?

Interesting I am not sure . I guess it doesnt matter because the 60000 was probably tested at max everything.

i have a question about standby vs. power:

do you guys leave your panel in standby most of the time, or do you actually toggle the on/off switch on the set?

I'm tempted to pretty much never toggle the on/off switch, and always leave in standby, but I'm not sure...

Standby...

Interesting I am not sure . I guess it doesnt matter because the 60000 was probably tested at max everything.

In my opinion, I'd say that is definitely not the case. First of all, the 60,000 wasn't tested. That's nearly 7 years at 24 hours/day. They leave it on for a much shorter period of time, and then try to extrapolate the total life. And I seriously doubt that it's a coincidence that they just happened to get the same number as all of the Panasonic panels. I wouldn't be surprised if they got that number with all the settings at their minimum and on a black screen (both NEC and Panasonic).

Basically, I think the manufacturers are pretty much just pulling these numbers out of their ass. There's a public perception that plasmas "wear out" quickly, and their marketing department asked the engineers to come up with a number that will refute that, and they did.

And feeling this way, I still bought a plasma. Our television is on a max of 3 hours / day, so even if the half-life is only 5,000 hours, I'll get 5 years out of it, which is all I am interested in.

Well I know 5000 hours is kind of low because there is people on this forum that already have at least 10000 and have no sign of lower quality.

new NEC appreciation:

my comcast dvr menu/guide is super high contrast, and on my old plasma if I stayed in the guide/menu for a long time (like when searching for programs to record), "comcast" would sometimes be retained in the upper left hand corner of the screen.

to protect the NEC, I simply set a picture setting (called "menu") with contrast = 8 and brightness = 10. now when I need to surf the guide for extended periods, I just hit "picture memory" on the remote to go the anti-torch setting....

also, i've found that on HD sports I can zoom in and remove the scoreboards from the screen...the PQ is still pretty damn good.

great features to relieve burn-in anxiety for worry-warts like me.

Can someone tell me their usual settings for their nec under the picture setting menu like their contrast brightness color etc
Also does anyone have any good settings for color tune settings for the different colors on the nec

Any one X boxing on the new NEC units ? Please post your experience specially Xbox 360.
I bought one yesterday on ebay.
I am around 100 hrs or so ,and will soon be using it ?

Yes I have the xbox 360 hooked up via component and it looks awesome. The dvd player on the xbox even outputs into 480p which makes all my dvds look great. The games are incredible in hd and the screen is the perfect size. i will try and get some pics up if I can.

Yes I have the xbox 360 hooked up via component and it looks awesome. The dvd player on the xbox even outputs into 480p which makes all my dvds look great. The games are incredible in hd and the screen is the perfect size. i will try and get some pics up if I can.


Great,
Since NEC can upscale ouput from an average DVD player. Xbox is a good DVD player . Does that mean buying OPPO dvd player was a waste of my money ?
Are there any advantages to keeping a separate DVD player, besides Xbox specially with NEC TV's?

(BIG MAC) There is no sence in upscaling twice. I am sure the scaler onboard the NEC if far better than one in a DVD player. This is another advantage to the NEC, no upscaling DVD player required. Just about any Progressive scan DVD player will do.

(BIG MAC) There is no sence in upscaling twice. I am sure the scaler onboard the NEC if far better than one in a DVD player. This is another advantage to the NEC, no upscaling DVD player required. Just about any Progressive scan DVD player will do.

Does it even need to be P-Scan? I'd imagine the deinterlacer in the NEC is better than the one in most dvd players

my sony DVD player looks a little worse when i use 480p instead of 480i

Does that mean Xbox 360 is more than enough?
No need for a DVD player?

Great,
Since NEC can upscale ouput from an average DVD player. Xbox is a good DVD player . Does that mean buying OPPO dvd player was a waste of my money ?
Are there any advantages to keeping a separate DVD player, besides Xbox specially with NEC TV's?

Don't know whether the Oppo is better than the xbox, but there certainly can be a difference. You're still depending on the player to deinterlace 480i to 480p. Ideally, you'd output 480i over DVI/HDMI and allow the NEC to do the rest assuming it has the best processing. The problem is finding a source that will do this. I thought the Oppo was one of the players that did.

I can tell you that my LG 3510a is noticeably better outputting 480p via DVI to my scaler than my PC's DVD drive outputting the same over VGA. I don't have a DVD source that will ouput 480i over DVI/HDMI.

(BIG MAC) Just about any Progressive scan DVD player will do.

The problem is that not many will output 480i via DVI/HDMI. If you use 480p the player is still deinterlacing.

There's also the issue of the player's ability to create the 480i signal accurately. In the end, a higher quality DVD player could still make a difference. Otherwise, to use an analogy, it would be like saying all CD players are equal if you are using an outboard DAC.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=614206

You might want to check this out.

I am planning to get the Pio 59avi or 79avi once I get my PDP, in order to do just that and let the NEC's scaler do the rest. Unless, of course I go crazy and get the Denon 3910... which BTW does NOT output 480i over HDMI. ( :( )

cheers

shane

do any of you have the Harmony 880 or 890?

does it do a good job at controlling your NEC?

specifically, can it switch zoom modes (anamorphic, 2.35:1, etc.)?

if not, i don't see the point in buying the remote.

do any of you have the Harmony 880 or 890?

does it do a good job at controlling your NEC?

specifically, can it switch zoom modes (anamorphic, 2.35:1, etc.)?

if not, i don't see the point in buying the remote.I have the Harmony 880. The NEC 50XR5A isn't in the "pre-configured list", but the 50XR4A is. I think the big difference between the two is PIP, but you can put all that in manually. It should be downloadable soon, the XR5A is just too new I guess.

You can change the aspect easily, but you need to assign the button to one of the LCD buttons... there isn't a standard aspect button on the remote. It took me a little bit to get everything setup the way I wanted, but it's very functional. I wouldn't pay MSRP for it, that's for sure. I had a good experience purchasing mine from ecost.

I have an MX-500 which does a very good job at controlling the zoom modes. All you have to do is teach the Wide button to any button on the remote via the learn function and it works great. Significantly less expensive than the Harmony remote....plus I like the button setup better.

Are you guys buying extended warranties with your NEC plasmas? I'm getting ready to buy the 42XR4 from Chris and leaning towards adding the 5 year warranty he sells but wanted a second opinion...

thanks for the remote info everyone...I'd certainly like to hear about other people's remote experiences, too

LisaM and rnotley: can your remotes do the zoom + and zoom - functions, too? what about the "picture memory" button?


thornsenjon: i bought the extended 5 yr...

but I'm a sucker for warranties.

one of those things....i've never regretted buying a warranty, but i've certainly regretted NOT buying a warranty.

I didn't buy the extended warranty, but I did use a Visa Card that has warranty protection so that extends my man. warranty to 2/4. Good enough for me for $0 extra.

Also wanted to comment on the remote situation. I have a Marantz receiver that comes with a pretty nice universal remote. I couldn't find a code that put everything in, but the one I used allowed a decent starting place with pip, on/off, volume, etc. Then I just programmed the rest in through the learning function. Worked great. Don't need to keep the NEC remote out anymore.

Oysterhead: I haven't taught the MX-500 the code for zoom +/zoom - but I am sure that it could do it. You can teach the remote quite easily by placing it head to head and following the easy directions.

As to the extended warranty, I didn't buy it. I used my American Express card which extends the warranty protection.

thanks for the remote info everyone...I'd certainly like to hear about other people's remote experiences, too

LisaM and rnotley: can your remotes do the zoom + and zoom - functions, too? what about the "picture memory" button?

I'm a long-time user of a Harmony 6-series remote. All I had to add to the 50XR4 profile was the HD4/HDMI input, everything else was there. I also configured the DVD control buttons to do input and memory like the NEC. I then added all the PIP, wide and memory controls to the LCD screen. Took less than an hour to get everything setup and saved - now my Harmony does everything exactly as I want it to do. The NEC remote has been permanently added to my growing collection of unneeded remotes. Wouldn't want to be without this handy remote!

Dave

No extended warranty for me. You get nine months to decide whether or not to get the warrantech warranty, so no point in getting it now. My Amex makes it 2/4, so that seems like more than enough for me. In four years I'll probably get an itch and sell it for SED or whatever.

I have a Harmony 680. I still haven't tweaked it yet, but as of now, it's working fine with the 50XR4 profile. I'm going to add Wide and Picture Memory to the LCD screen.

The 42XR4 looks like it would be the best set for my requirements, but I have three simple questions:

1. I intend to connect it to an HTPC via DVI. Has anyone had success connecting one of the HDMI inputs to a PC with a DVI-HDMI cable? I'm not concerned with 1080p.

2. How noticeable is the fan noise if you put your head behind the plasma? I currently have a Samsung HLP DLP set and the fan is quite annoying. Listening to fans on sets in stores allows me to tell whether or not it will annoy me or if I will ever hear it.

3. I'd like to see one of these sets in person if at all possible. I live in the Seattle, WA area. Does anyone know of any retailers that carry this set? I've read through the entire thread and I know that NEC doesn't push these sets out to very many retailers, but I'm hoping that someone has narrowed down the search somewhat. If no B&M stores carry it in my area, maybe someone can suggest an online retailer that is a little closer than Ohio or New York.

Thanks, and any input or advice is appreciated.

The tag on my panel says the voltage is 100-240V. Does this mean that the panel is compatible in all regions of the world, except for a cord swap?

Chris Majoros is assisting me iron out a misshipment of a 240V plug and Euro manuals within my panel package. I am hoping I will not have to swap the panel as well. I am already speculating that the panel is okay, so I prefer only absolute answers that trump my own opinion.

Thanks!

Kastagir: I think that Visual Apex is in Washington State. Their contact info is located at the top of the page since they are a forum sponsor.

The 42XR4 looks like it would be the best set for my requirements, but I have three simple questions:

2. How noticeable is the fan noise if you put your head behind the plasma? I currently have a Samsung HLP DLP set and the fan is quite annoying. Listening to fans on sets in stores allows me to tell whether or not it will annoy me or if I will ever hear it.


Thanks, and any input or advice is appreciated.

Sorry, I can only answer question 2 for you - I don't hear any fan noise when it is on. I can hear some soft buzzing when a bright scene is displayed, but only if I am within about 2 feet of the display. At normal viewing distance though, I can't hear anything from the panel.

For people that own or have seen the NEC's in person, how do they look compared to the Pio 5060 or 4360? I have seen many NEC pics, but still does not do justice to seeing in person. The only thing I don't like about the Pio's is the glossy bezal. Thanks!

I have driven down to a look Ht store and tried to compare it with the pioneer elite they have there and to my eyes it looks just as good maybe better. But I cannot vouch for everyone this is just my eyes.

After several frustrating days delay waiting for Comcast-initiated water damage to be repaired, finally got the 61XR4 hooked up and firing.

In a word, wow!

I was a little concerned that downsizing from a FP and 106" screen in our new smaller media room would prove to be an underwhelming experience. However it's proved exactly the opposite, watching the NEC from 12-13 ft provides a totally absorbing experience with HD on cable or good DVDs through HDMI. I have set my Pio DV-79 to output 480i/576i over HDMI so the NEC is doing the scaling and seems to be making an excellent job of it. Just watched 'The Girl with a Pearl earring' which has candle-lit scenes as well predominantly black clothing. The blacks were excellent IMO.

I'll post some pics if someone could PM the recommended camera settings.

My thanks also also to Chris at Cleveland Plasma for a straightforward and painless transaction.

The tag on my panel says the voltage is 100-240V. Does this mean that the panel is compatible in all regions of the world, except for a cord swap?

Chris Majoros is assisting me iron out a misshipment of a 240V plug and Euro manuals within my panel package. I am hoping I will not have to swap the panel as well. I am already speculating that the panel is okay, so I prefer only absolute answers that trump my own opinion.

Thanks!

Yes, the NEC panel is fully compatible both from a voltage/frequency and TV standards perspective.

I believe it is the only consumer panel sold in the US that has that capability.

I have watched both NTSC and PAL DVDs already on my 61", and the NEC confirms that it is receiving the signals in the correct resolution from my multistandard DVD player.

Not long ago, some NEC salesman suggested to a member to use an all-white screen for the 100-hr break-in. Here is what my NEC documentation states:

"In case the phosphor burn is not severe, an all-white screen may reduce the phosphor burn to an acceptable lever over time. Please note that an all-white screen will decrease the brightness level, so care must be taken to utilize it for the shortest possible time." (bold emphasis mine)

Does anyone STILL suggest this method? Based on this note alone, I will not use it. Has anyone else used this method, either partially or exclusively, for break-in?

I have'nt used an all white screen. Another member has posted a really great break-in dvd that rotates through a series of full colored screens. I have used this dvd with the contrast and brightness set down very low for a couple of nights. I think this would accomplish the same task with much less possible damage in my opinion.

Can someone please PM me the price people are quoted for 50XR5 and 42XR4? I'm getting ready to strike and want to know what I can afford :)

I've already left a message for Cleveland Plasma and haven't heard back yet. I'm also hoping Cleveland sell the 42/50" stand, too.

Also, what are people's thought on a 50" for 9' viewing distance? I was all set on the 42 until I hear about the "shrinkage" concerns. Should I just suck it up and go for broke with the 50" or stick with the 42" for now?

I can't WAIT NO MORE!!!!

So I pulled the trigger on the 50xr5. Regardless of all the pros and cons, my previous TV blew out a couple weeks ago and I couldn't wait until April (or May, or June) for a Panasonic and I didn't feel like waiting at least a month for a Pioneer.

Could someone help me with a few questions? First, what are the dimensions of the box that this thing ships in? Second, does it come double boxed...and if so, do you know the dimensions of the inside box? Lastly, will it be ok for me to stand the box on its end for the duration of a 20 second ride up my elevator? I can't imagine that the plasma screen couldn't be suspended in this position for a short period of time, but I'd hate to break the thing before it ever gets turned on.

Thanks for all your help.

LisaM and rnotley: can your remotes do the zoom + and zoom - functions, too? what about the "picture memory" button?There hasn't been a button on the NEC remote that I haven't been able to 'program' into the Harmony 880. The thing to remember is that each LCD screenful has only 8 buttons. You can page thru different screens in order to see all the non-standard buttons.

2. How noticeable is the fan noise if you put your head behind the plasma? I currently have a Samsung HLP DLP set and the fan is quite annoying. Listening to fans on sets in stores allows me to tell whether or not it will annoy me or if I will ever hear it.You can't hear the fans at all. Maybe from 4 inches away and even then all you hear is the air movement, not the fan.

Not long ago, some NEC salesman suggested to a member to use an all-white screen for the 100-hr break-in. Here is what my NEC documentation states:

"In case the phosphor burn is not severe, an all-white screen may reduce the phosphor burn to an acceptable lever over time. Please note that an all-white screen will decrease the brightness level, so care must be taken to utilize it for the shortest possible time." (bold emphasis mine)

Does anyone STILL suggest this method? Based on this note alone, I will not use it. Has anyone else used this method, either partially or exclusively, for break-in?Hmm... I would say that 70 hours of my 100 hour "break-in" was the white screen. Whoops, missed that one in the manual. Oh well, I haven't noticed a thing... except image retention doesn't really happen anymore, unless I leave my videogames on pause for 10 minutes and then turn the screen to black and try to look for it.

I don't know much about the stretch modes for other plasma TV's, but one feature I like of the NEC is the ability to modify the vertical/horizontal placement and stretch of each WIDE mode. This was useful because my PS2 in anamorphic mode would be perfect except for two very narrow bars on either side. It was very easy to modify the anamorphic horizontal stretch. The great thing is that the NEC remember's this setting for only the input you are using, so it won't change the anamorphic settings on the other inputs.