Not long ago, some NEC salesman suggested to a member to use an all-white screen for the 100-hr break-in. Here is what my NEC documentation states:

"In case the phosphor burn is not severe, an all-white screen may reduce the phosphor burn to an acceptable lever over time. Please note that an all-white screen will decrease the brightness level, so care must be taken to utilize it for the shortest possible time." (bold emphasis mine)

Does anyone STILL suggest this method? Based on this note alone, I will not use it. Has anyone else used this method, either partially or exclusively, for break-in?Hmm... I would say that 70 hours of my 100 hour "break-in" was the white screen. Whoops, missed that one in the manual. Oh well, I haven't noticed a thing... except image retention doesn't really happen anymore, unless I leave my videogames on pause for 10 minutes and then turn the screen to black and try to look for it.

I don't know much about the stretch modes for other plasma TV's, but one feature I like of the NEC is the ability to modify the vertical/horizontal placement and stretch of each WIDE mode. This was useful because my PS2 in anamorphic mode would be perfect except for two very narrow bars on either side. It was very easy to modify the anamorphic horizontal stretch. The great thing is that the NEC remember's this setting for only the input you are using, so it won't change the anamorphic settings on the other inputs.

Are these plasmas better than the elite pioneer 1130

I am looking to buy a 50 incher and need some input. Any opinions out there as to wether I should buy the NEC 50XR5, the Panny TH-50PHD8UK, or wait for the Panny TH-50PX600U ?

Could someone help me with a few questions? First, what are the dimensions of the box that this thing ships in? Second, does it come double boxed...and if so, do you know the dimensions of the inside box? Lastly, will it be ok for me to stand the box on its end for the duration of a 20 second ride up my elevator? I can't imagine that the plasma screen couldn't be suspended in this position for a short period of time, but I'd hate to break the thing before it ever gets turned on.

Thanks for all your help.

Argh, I just tore down my XR5 box last night, so I can't give you the height 100% exactly. However, the base is still assembled in my living room. It measures 15" deep, 54" long. I estimate the height, if it packs symmetrically, at 37".

There is no double box. There are folded panels front and back inside the outer shell, and there are large foam blocks at the corners. It is difficult to break down the box quickly because there are cool little plastic locks that keep the shell connected to the base. You can pull these with pliers, then the shell slides up and off. This allows you to leave the monitor sitting on its base within the lower foam blocks. In my case, this was convenient as it allowed me to mount my wall bracket interface to the back.

I think what you're really getting at though is elevator transport. IIRC, the monitors can be hung by commercial users in the portrait orientation. That's the orientation you desire for the elevator, so I believe you'd be fine. The manual even advises you to place the panel on its face on the floor to attach a mount interface to the back.

Ideally, you'd output 480i over DVI/HDMI and allow the NEC to do the rest assuming it has the best processing. The problem is finding a source that will do this. I thought the Oppo was one of the players that did.

I haven't scanned every post since cpcat wrote this, but the Oppo 971H most certainly does not put out 480i over HDMI (the ideal way to feed the NEC). To fill this need, Oppo is supposedly about to introduce an even lower priced player that has this feature (but apparently no Faroudja chip). The new unit will be called the 970. This is one of the reasons I opted to purchase a new leftover Pioneer 59avi, which is one of the few DVD players that does put out 480i over HDMI (and has excellent audio capability, plays SACDs, etc, to boot). So far, I have not tried the 480i output into my 50XR5. As I reported previously, the 720p output of the 59avi looked great on one film, except there were objectionable motion artifacts in one action scene (Batman Begins). I am not seeing any such artifacts in my regular satellite-sourced (and so far all SD) viewing, so I suspect the problem was with the Pioneer. By this weekend, I ought to have had time to evaluate the Pio/NEC combination with a 480i feed to the NEC.

I am looking to buy a 50 incher and need some input. Any opinions out there as to wether I should buy the NEC 50XR5, the Panny TH-50PHD8UK, or wait for the Panny TH-50PX600U ?
I bought the NEC based on the following criteria:
1. Availability NOW
2. Full ISF C3 adjustments, nearly all available to the user.
3. 68.7 billion colors
4. 2 HDMI inputs
5. NEC's reputation
6. Enthusiastic endorsement by this thread's earliest buyers
7. Price competitive or better than other quality-leading models

Are these plasmas better than the elite pioneer 1130
Since you didn't offer any criteria, I'll answer simply.

Yes.

Are these plasmas better than the elite pioneer 1130


In my opinion any day .
Now that's just my opinion. ;)
I own a 50XR5.

Argh, I just tore down my XR5 box last night, so I can't give you the height 100% exactly. However, the base is still assembled in my living room. It measures 15" deep, 54" long. I estimate the height, if it packs symmetrically, at 37".

Not to bad for estimating, the actual exterior size is 35h x 15.5D x 54.75L.

And my wife wonders why I never throw a box away. Besides what is all that space above the garage good for anyway beside storing boxes. :)

Since you didn't offer any criteria, I'll answer simply.

Yes.


In my opinion any day .
Now that's just my opinion. ;)
I own a 50XR5.

Either of you care to elaborate? What's your criteria?

This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590451) might be helpful.

An excerpt from my response in this thread, which pertains to what I consider the top 4 in the 50in plasma category: Fuji, NEC, Pio, Panny:

...the differences in your categories between the top 4 plasmas, specifically the NEC and Pio would be subtle at best. I would imagine in many cases the differences would be influenced by picture settings and or personal preferences. For example, some folks prefer the more vivid image character sometimes associated with the Pannys, others (like me) prefer the lifelike clarity of the NEC and Fuji. My point is, in this group of plasmas, it often comes down to personal preference as the PQ on all these guys are excellent.

You'll be happy with either choice.

I am planning on doing a minimum calibration using the AVIA disc. Can I do one calibration that will be reflected in the output display for both an HDMI DVD player (Panny S97S) and my Comcast STB? Or do I have to calibrate each signal input? Can a STB input even be calibrated, since it doesn't output test patterns?

Either of you care to elaborate? What's your criteria?
Actually, I did elaborate just before I replied to you. Check post #756. Note, I did not do any side-by-side comparison, as the NEC's are vaporware in B&M's since they are so new, nor did I rely on any website or magazine review, again since the model is so new. Basically, I punted, as did most of the other 50" buyers in this thread. Faithful or crazy we must be.

I am looking to buy a 50 incher and need some input. Any opinions out there as to wether I should buy the NEC 50XR5, the Panny TH-50PHD8UK, or wait for the Panny TH-50PX600U ?


I'd say the choice is between the 8UK and the NEC. For all practical purposes, the new consumer Panasonics don't seem any different than the current models other than adding an HDMI input. The 50XR5 has better resolution and much more flexibility than the consumer Panasonic.

As far as 8UK vs. XR5, my speculation is that you'd be happy with either. It's like Lexus vs. Infinity. If you are planning on using an external scaler or think you ever will, go NEC as it's easier to do 1:1 mapping over HDMI. Otherwise, assuming the 8UK doesn't suffer from lack of full resolution like the consumer panel, go with either and don't look back.

I am planning on doing a minimum calibration using the AVIA disc. Can I do one calibration that will be reflected in the output display for both an HDMI DVD player (Panny S97S) and my Comcast STB? Or do I have to calibrate each signal input? Can a STB input even be calibrated, since it doesn't output test patterns?

There are 6 different picture memories that are programmable and completely independent. This includes all parameters even grey scale and individual color tone adjustments. They will be saved on a per input basis and then recalled when that input is again recognized. They can also be manually recalled if necessary.

If you only have one memory programmed, it will stick for all inputs once selected.

Not to bad for estimating, the actual exterior size is 35h x 15.5D x 54.75L.


Thanks. That should fit in my elevator, portrait style, with no problem.

I mounted my plasma on sanus platinum stand today . It looks great .I am very pleased with the overall look .

I was curious, how many and what type of bolt did you use to attach the monitor to the stand? If I remember correctly from the furniture thread, you are using the Sanus Platinum PFFP2b stand. This is what I plan on purchasing.

In further reading, it appears Chris from Cleveland recommends using 4 8Mx16 bolts. I've read through the Sanus PFFP2b instructions and this appears to be the way that Sanus recommends attaching the mount. I guess I just want to confirm that this is what you did.

Thanks.

Can someone please post all of their settings under the "picture" menu that is not using a scaler

I am having a slight problem with certain hd shows and skin tone it seems there is a slight push towards green on some of the shadows on the faces this only occurs on very few shows not all(24 in Hd). I am sure I am the only one having this problem that is why I am asking foir someone settings who is not having this problem and maybe include a fix.
Thanks

dewsky;

If your using DVI, or HDMI input, there is no tint adjustment. Try using component cables, and there should be an adjustment, but you may not have the problem with that imput.

dewsky;

If your using DVI, or HDMI input, there is no tint adjustment. Try using component cables, and there should be an adjustment, but you may not have the problem with that imput.

SingleAction,

Not sure what your referring to, but all adjustments are available for the HDMI and DVI (if using an XM5) inputs. Tint as well as the bias and gain color adjustments.

dewsky,

I will post the settings I finally decided on when I get a chance, but I would recommend adjusting the bias and gain color settings (most likely the green) under the colortemp setting. You can do this by hitting enter when you have the color temp setting highlighted. see if that helps first.

I am planning on doing a minimum calibration using the AVIA disc. Can I do one calibration that will be reflected in the output display for both an HDMI DVD player (Panny S97S) and my Comcast STB? Or do I have to calibrate each signal input? Can a STB input even be calibrated, since it doesn't output test patterns?

Quinocampa, I don't have an answer for you, but please let me know what you come up with for the best setting for your DVD player as I have the same one and am getting ready to get the 42XR4. I was planning on sending the video via HDMI directly to the set and audio via optical to my receiver (I could run the video thru my receiver via HDMI as well, but I figure why bother, it's probably better to go straight to TV) In any case I'm very curious as to the best settings on the DVD player when connected this way. I've got a TW SA8000HD STB and am planning to do the same there (video via HDMI straight to TV, audio via optical to receiver) although we just got this box yesterday so need to double check the outputs! Thanks

In a wall mounting post- poster said" make sure the plasma does not shake off the wall’”. I do not think that will happen, but it made me think about some thing. Those of you who have decided to stand mount your plasma you should think about an earthquake or even a child or a happy friend bumping in t it. Things do topple over. I am not sure if stand mounts are top heavy. however, There are these cable wires{8") (earthquake kit) with nuts on either end that have attachments that screw into the wall (you lift the nut in a certain way to remove & attach.) so if it is tipped – it may not fall all the way. Just something to consider….
db

In a wall mounting post- poster said" make sure the plasma does not shake off the wall’”. I do not think that will happen, but it made me think about some thing. Those of you who have decided to stand mount your plasma you should think about an earthquake or even a child or a happy friend bumping in t it. Things do topple over. I am not sure if stand mounts are top heavy. however, There are these cable wires{8") (earthquake kit) with nuts on either end that have attachments that screw into the wall (you lift the nut in a certain way to remove & attach.) so if it is tipped – it may not fall all the way. Just something to consider….
db

Just as an FYI, the NEC swivel stand comes with two tabs that can be attached to the bottom of the stand on the back so you can secure it to whatever you place it on. Granted this means drilling holes in a cabinet or entertainment center, but it may be worth it for those worried about earthquakes or kids. (I don't have either worry so I just tossed 'em into the box for now.)

dewsky;

If your using DVI, or HDMI input, there is no tint adjustment. Try using component cables, and there should be an adjustment, but you may not have the problem with that imput.


All of the picture controls are available if using DVI/HDMI assuming an ATSC signal is input to the display (1080i, 720p, 480i/p). If feeding native resolution the tint/saturation controls are disabled and Theater 1 /Theater 2 pic modes are also disabled but grey scale and temperature, color cuts/drives, sharpness and pretty much everything else remains available. This likely is the case for any non-ATSC resolution.

I was trying to decide Panny vs NEC and have read that many people do not like the Panny stretcher on either the commercial or consumer panels. How good is the NEC's?

Conflicted1: Do you mean the "Wide" modes, which are used to stretch the picture in SD? If so, I think that the NEC's Stadium mode is excellent. It is hard to tell that the picture is being stretched at all.

I was trying to decide Panny vs NEC and have read that many people do not like the Panny stretcher on either the commercial or consumer panels. How good is the NEC's?


If you look at the manuals for both the NEC product and the Panasonic product, the description for the NEC Stadium display (page 12 of the 50XR5A manual) and the diagram for Just (page 19 of the Panasonic manual) appear the be about the same. I'm not sure you'll see much of a difference between the two. I suspect that some users may be more sensitive to the stretch mode (stadium or just) than others and that may explain why some have complained while others haven't. If I'm not mistaken, both try to keep the center area of the picture without much change and stretch the material on the sides. The center of the Panasonic Just mode may be slightly wider than the one that NEC uses, but I'm judging that simply by comparing the diagrams in both manuals.

The Just mode on the commercial Panny that I have looks darn good to me. But, again, this is a subjective evaluation. I'm sure that I would think that the NEC Stadium mode looked great, as well.

I'd focus on other distinctions between the 2 panels in making your purchase decision. This one may be inconsequential.

I was curious, how many and what type of bolt did you use to attach the monitor to the stand? If I remember correctly from the furniture thread, you are using the Sanus Platinum PFFP2b stand. This is what I plan on purchasing.

In further reading, it appears Chris from Cleveland recommends using 4 8Mx16 bolts. I've read through the Sanus PFFP2b instructions and this appears to be the way that Sanus recommends attaching the mount. I guess I just want to confirm that this is what you did.

Thanks.

I was planning to wall mount the plasma , and bought a wall mount from Chris ,along with my plasma.
Later i decided to mount it on sannus stand. (I still have the wall mount availble untouched, if anyone is interested including Chris) .

Anyhow . on the back of the 50 xr5 there are 2 coulmns for bolts on each side . I used the bolts supplied with Sanus. I have used the 2 outer columns . One large bolt and a small bolt in the top half and a small bolt in the lower half . TV is pritty steady with this arrangement . Sorry i do n't know the exact size of the bolts . I played with the bolts before mounting to see which fits best .
I stil have to get the wire clutter through the stand to hide them . One of these days will take out time for this ...
I bought my stand on ebay . Ebay had the best price .

In further reading, it appears Chris from Cleveland recommends using 4 8Mx16 bolts. .

If you can I would use the 8 MM bolts. However the 4 MM bolts will work fine, but make sure all 8 bolts that are required are used.

My Pioneer 5040HD is gone and my new 50" XR5 is in route to me. Anyone who is willing to take the trip can come out to take a look.

wow...I should have paid more attention to AVSFORUM. I decided on the 50XM5 but to my deep disatisfaction I could not find one at any of the bigger Plasma Dealers. All of the shops listed on Plasmabuyinguide were out as well as everybody else in the normal AOL and Google searches. At 9PM last night, on page six of the Google Searches, listed somewhere between some site in Finland and a Korean distributor was a listing of ClevelandPlasma. Bingo. I get it in three days. Not being amoung the 'first' hits on a search engine is really good...for us consumers.

If you can I would use the 8 MM bolts. However the 4 MM bolts will work fine, but make sure all 8 bolts that are required are used.

Just to make sure I'm clear; In my post I indicated that you recommended using 4 '8MM x 16' bolts. This is what is supplied with the Sanus stand that I'm considering so hopefully there won't be any issues with the mount.

I'd focus on other distinctions between the 2 panels in making your purchase decision. This one may be be inconsequential.


One difference which is significant is that this mode is available on the NEC for HD sources, on the Panny it is not.

One difference which is significant is that this mode is available on the NEC for HD sources, on the Panny it is not.

This is one of the primary reasons I switched my decision to the NEC after deciding on the Panasonic for months. Now I can easily watch Battlestar Galactica zoomed instead of having black bars on all sides. Stretching SD broadcast as HD is pretty awesome also.

I have used the 2 outer columns . One large bolt and a small bolt in the top half and a small bolt in the lower half . TV is pritty steady with this arrangement . .

Just curious, could you have fit another large bolt in the bottom half?

I've just studied the instructions for both the TV and the stand. I guess the question that I won't be able to answer until I have both in hand is if the bolt holes in the monitor mounts will match up with the back of the TV in such a way that I can use the 4 '8MMx16' bolts.

Big Mac, it sounds like the mount you have matched up with both a 4MM and 8MM bolt in the top half of the mount, but only a 4MM in the bottom half. Please let me know if your TV falls off the mount sometime in the next couple days :)

FYI I've continued to play with the grey scale adjustments using AVIA grey ramps and trying to get the smoothest looking ramps possible. In spite of improving the way the ramps look, real world viewing still seems to look better with the default temperature settings to my eye.

I guess maybe this illustrates why an ISF pro with a colorimeter is needed to adjust the grey scale. :o

I have the Sanus VMPL3 wall mount. It's expandable, so I'm able to catch 3 studs, and with the extension arms on the mount portion, I was able to use 4 8mm bolts and 4 4mm bolts. It's a great mount, really easy to put on the wall, and it's not going anywhere.

My only complaint about the mount is that it's about 2.5 inches thick, so the plasma sits off the wall a total of six inches or so. Doesn't really have that "picture on the wall" feel. Unfortunately, the location of the studs on my wall required me to have a mount that would catch three studs, or I'd use one of the non-tilt mounts that sits an inch off the wall.

One difference which is significant is that this mode is available on the NEC for HD sources, on the Panny it is not.

That's a good point and a nice feature on the NEC. I thought that the issue raised by the poster, however, was the actual difference on-screen between Panasonic Just and NEC Stadium, not the ability to use stretch mode on HD.

I have the Sanus VMPL3 wall mount. It's expandable, so I'm able to catch 3 studs, and with the extension arms on the mount portion, I was able to use 4 8mm bolts and 4 4mm bolts. It's a great mount, really easy to put on the wall, and it's not going anywhere.

That's interesting. I looked at the instructions for the VMPL3. I wonder, if you didn't have the extensions, then you could slide the mount up a couple notches to allow you to use an 8MM and 4MM in the top and then only a 4MM in the bottom becuase the mount wouldn't extend all the way down to the next 8MM hole in the TV (which may be how Big Mac set up his mount).

Oh well, I think J&R has a liberal enough return policy if it doesn't work.

That's interesting. I looked at the instructions for the VMPL3. I wonder, if you didn't have the extensions, then you could slide the mount up a couple notches to allow you to use an 8MM and 4MM in the top and then only a 4MM in the bottom becuase the mount wouldn't extend all the way down to the next 8MM hole in the TV (which may be how Big Mac set up his mount).

.

Exacto.....
My TV is standing rock solid for a greater than a month now. :cool:
I have moved the stand many times without any problems .
Back to State of the Union address.

Article about new NEC plasma launch in UK
http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesnews2006/news20060126-01.html

They only get a 2 yr std warranty. Also, apparently the commercial NEC's have a 'Ticker-Tape' feature that I don't think was mentioned on these boards.

Exacto.....
My TV is standing rock solid for a greater than a month now. :cool:
I have moved the stand many times without any problems .
Back to State of the Union address.

The TV may be rock solid but the State of the Union is on shakey ground.

The TV may be rock solid but the State of the Union is on shakey ground.

Lol..
Hmmmm..
AVS forum is the last place to debate that .. :D :D

Just to make sure I'm clear; In my post I indicated that you recommended using 4 '8MM x 16' bolts. This is what is supplied with the Sanus stand that I'm considering so hopefully there won't be any issues with the mount.

Yes, when a universal mount allows use the 8MM bolts. See the problem is the 8MM bolts are spaced so far apart that not all wall mounts allow these bolts to be used, therefor the 4MM bolts are used. They both will do the job, it is just my personal preference as a custom installer to use the bigger bolts when I can.

My concern with only using the top 8mm bolts and 4 4mm bolts is that for a tilting mount, the plasma is no longer centered top to bottom, and it may affect the tilting mechanism. With the VMPL3, the plasma is centered perfectly, and I can tilt it with one finger.

I am about to buy a 42XR4. I have a Denon 2910 DVD player. I have been reading it may be better to output 480i from the player; and upscale at the monitor.

Is that the way to go?
What dvd players are recommended?

My concern with only using the top 8mm bolts and 4 4mm bolts is that for a tilting mount, the plasma is no longer centered top to bottom, and it may affect the tilting mechanism. With the VMPL3, the plasma is centered perfectly, and I can tilt it with one finger.

The mount I'm planning to use doesn't tilt, but, it might be a better idea to just go buy an extra 4 4MM bolts from the hardware store and use 8 4MM bolts in the proper position.

Is there a new 61 coming out soon? Maybe a 61XR5?

Thanks Mike

I am about to buy a 42XR4. I have a Denon 2910 DVD player. I have been reading it may be better to output 480i from the player; and upscale at the monitor.

Is that the way to go?
What dvd players are recommended?

Look at this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=614206

Apparently the NEC has a very good scaler and from what I've read is best fed the 480i through digital means (DVI or HDMI).

I have not read any comments on feeding this panel a 480i over component. If anyone has compared these two, I would love to know the results.

Thanks

shane

I have not read any comments on feeding this panel a 480i over component. If anyone has compared these two, I would love to know the results.

Thanks

shane

I'll let you know when I get the TV. I plan on using my Denon 2900 and will feed it either 480i or 480p over component.

Is there a new 61 coming out soon? Maybe a 61XR5?

Thanks Mike
The new 61-incher is the XR4. I read a post a couple days ago that someone just took delivery of one. I think they were the first to post.

Can someone give a review on a PX42XM4A? I can get one for a reasonable price and would like to know how they stack up against the panasonics and pioneers of this world. Also, how's the dc restoration on these panels?

Will I encounter the same "black flicker" i've seen on Hitachi panels during dark scenes?

Thanks in advance for any info on these panels!

miccos,

the XM4 should be exactly the same as the XR4 except for having one DVI instead of tow HDMI's, otherwise the reviews should be the same. The DVI may allow 1080p (60) whereas the HDMI will not, but I am not positive on that.

As for black level changing, no you will not find that on the NEC's.

miccos,

the XM4 should be exactly the same as the XR4 except for having one DVI instead of tow HDMI's, otherwise the reviews should be the same. The DVI may allow 1080p (60) whereas the HDMI will not, but I am not positive on that.

As for black level changing, no you will not find that on the NEC's.

That would be correct

That's excellent to hear, I'm quite excited about the prospect of one of these panels.

where do i get a list of authorized online resellers?

I am planning on doing a minimum calibration using the AVIA disc. Can I do one calibration that will be reflected in the output display for both an HDMI DVD player (Panny S97S) and my Comcast STB? Or do I have to calibrate each signal input? Can a STB input even be calibrated, since it doesn't output test patterns?

HDNet broadcasts a 10 minute series of calibration screens every Tuesday morning from 6-6:10AM, I found these useful to calibrate the DirecTV STB input (via component) on My 50XM4A.

I'll let you know when I get the TV. I plan on using my Denon 2900 and will feed it either 480i or 480p over component.


Thanks rhoffman.
I'm wondering more specifically at the difference between 480i over HDMI vs. 480i over component.
That said, just about any informative comparison is appreciated. :)

Cheers

shane

SHodorov,
You can go to:

http://www.necvsd.com/pxauth/authorize_lookup.php

And enter the URL of the company you are looking at. Be sure to add the "www" or it will not work.

Thanks,
Bob Doseck
Plasma Concepts

where do i get a list of authorized online resellers?

I'm new here and didn't realize I could post a link. In any case, go to beyondplasma's website and choose any of the NEC sets. An icon will appear that says "NEC Authorized Dealer". Click on that icon and you'll be taken to an NEC page that allows you to enter an online reseller's name which will then be checked against their list of authorized dealers.

Sorry I couldn't post the exact link. This is the best work-around I could think of.

^^^^ The main rule that is not followed that makes a vender an Authorized dealer or not is pricing. NEC requires all authorized resellers to list at MAP Price. The MAP pricing is high compared to the "Street Pricing" so some dealer choose to put call for price. As of now, on the XR model plasma's, here are the MAP Prices.

PX-42VR5HA............ $2,895.00
pX-42XR4A.............. $3,995.00
PX-50XR5A ............. $5,495.00
PX-61XR4A.............. $11,495.00

If a person sees pricing below this in searches like price grabber they will find unauthorized dealers. Be careful to get your full warranty.

Note: that if a dealer has a site were it says add to cart to find the lowest price, this is allowed. It is the out in the open price that matters which can be gained by the price grabber sites.

A common question may be why have a MAP price policy? It maintains the value of the product. The product does not get exploited by internet pricing.

SHodorov--read further back into this thread. There is a referance to a dealer in Cleveland. Good guy.

I just did a google on '50XM5 and Manual' and i got the NEC site. Now I can load the manual into the hard drive of my computer.

I am getting a little confused (it doesn't take much) here.
RE: Scaling
My feed: Comcast DVR cable box
How do we tell the box or do we tell the XR5 to display 480i or P or 1080i
In the memory setting box, I am not sure how or why to try to set the "input" to one of the above in the memory input setting.
Can anyone clarify "best" way to understand scaling and to step by step show me/us/
Alternatively, on which page in the manual can we find this..

db

I am getting a little confused (it doesn't take much) here.
RE: Scaling
My feed: Comcast DVR cable box
How do we tell the box or do we tell the XR5 to display 480i or P or 1080i
In the memory setting box, I am not sure how or why to try to set the "input" to one of the above in the memory input setting.
Can anyone clarify "best" way to understand scaling and to step by step show me/us/
Alternatively, on which page in the manual can we find this..

db

Every signal except one must be scaled to match the native resolution of the display. This is inherent to digital displays. For the 50 inch, this is 1365 x 768p and for the 42 it's 1024 x 768p. The only signal that doesn't require scaling is a signal which matches the native resolution exactly.

In most cases, the better quality scaling will occur within the display itself. It's designed after all to scale to it's native resolution. Therefore, it's usually best to process the signal as little as possible up to the display and then allow the display to do the rest. This means feeding the display the native resolution of the source whenever possible. If the source is a 720p signal, feed the display 720p, if the source is native 480i, then feed 480i, and so on. If for whatever reason, you can't feed the native source resolution to the display, then do as little as possible to it as a general rule. For example, feed 480p from DVD over HDMI if 480i is not available from the player.

The one exception to this is if using an external scaler/processor or HTPC with high quality video card. You then assume (hope :) ) that the scaling is superior in the processor/HTPC, so you then have the external unit scale everything to the native resolution of the display thus bypassing the internal scaler of the display. In this case as well, it's best to feed the external scaler device native source signals whenever possible.

In your case specifically, try to feed the display native source signals by placing the DVR in "native" mode or whatever the manufacturer chooses to call it.

The picture memories on the NEC will be saved per input, not per resolution, even though you will see a different number designation there for each recognized resolution. If you want a different picture memory setting per resolution for a specific input, you'll have to set up two different memories and manually switch them.

db,

I agree with cpcat. Also, i think you have the SA8300HD correct? If so, it is possible to put it in "passthru" mode which will sent the XR5 whatever the native resolution of the feed is.

Does anyone know if the new 42 or 50 has 3:2 pulldown detection? I don't have a disc that tests this, but I am curious because I feel my display looks a little better when inputting 480i out of my DVD player versus progressive, but my DVD player has 3:2 pulldown detections so that may push me to use it in progressive mode for movies with more action if the display doesn't have the detection. I haven't watched enough DVD's yet to determine what looks better in most situations, so I was wondering if anyone else knows if it does or doesn't have it.

Tony17 & cpcat - you guys are the full cavalry.
I have the Motorola DVR 6412. The box came the day after the xr which wasn't ready to be set up. So SR by phone set it w/ me. was much help. so now i'm over in the Hardware thread learning how the 6412 works- man o man i also have to make a living...
db

Does anyone know if the new 42 or 50 has 3:2 pulldown detection? .

Yes, they do. See the model info pamphlet:http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/ModelInformation/50XR5A.pdf
page En-2 at the bottom.

As I asked earlier, I am looking for a comparison between the two. Has anyone seen both and care to explain the differences both technically and visually?

Yes, they do. See the model info pamphlet:http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/ModelInformation/50XR5A.pdf
page En-2 at the bottom.

Cool. Thanks cpcat. I guess I never really looked at that pamphlet, I just went straight to the user's manual. The lesson as always, besides that I am idiot, rtfm. I feel better now knowing there is no reason to run in progressive mode since I like non-progressive input a little better.

As I asked earlier, I am looking for a comparison between the two. Has anyone seen both and care to explain the differences both technically and visually?

There's not much difference. Both are non-linear stretch modes which means the center of the picture is stretched less than the edges so objects in the center are less distorted. The commercial model Panny stretches the center less than the consumer does. The NEC Stadium is very similar to the Panny consumer Just.

Neither of the Panasonics allow for stretching of HD material while the NEC does.
This means you'll have to watch SD shows on an HD station pillar-boxed on the Panny unless you stretch it through a STB or force down-convert it so the TV can stretch it.

First off let me say that I had a great experience purchasing my 50XR5 through Chris at Cleveland plasma, he has been very responsive to all my questions. Overall I have to say I'm happy with the XR5 the colors are great and even SD is not bad, but I do see a lot of what is called clay face or false contouring. I see it in Sd to HD, although the better the HD presentation the less so. I have tried outputting the signal from my moto 6412 through component as well as DVI to HDMI cables with not too much difference. This plasma is an upgrade from a 42 Visio which also had its fair share of clay face but I seem to notice it more now, maybe because the 50 is just so much bigger. still I'm surprised because there is not much mention of this problem of mine on this thread. Any suggestions? Could it be the Moto box? Is there a setting I'm missing? Don't everybody panic who are considering this plasma, overall I'm still happy.

Hey cpcat or anyone else that might be using an HTPC to output to your new NEC, can you check out the thread:
"nVidia 6600GT HDMI out to NEC 42XR4" found at:
AVS Forum > Video Components > Home Theater Computers
(I should have posted a few times instead of just reading for the past 3 month, stupid 5 post link rule) :p

I'm hoping someone with a new NEC and an HTPC might be able to chime in.

As a side note, I'll run Monitor Asset Manager when connected through all 3 types of connections (HDMI, RGB D-Sub, and Component) and post the results to this thread. I'll do it when I get home tonight. This should settle the debate regarding which resolutions are supported by each input.

Seerden 6,

First off, make sure you ramp that Sharpness down to almost zero, as this adds unwanted artifacts in my opinion. Also, have you done any setting adjustments yet. If you look back, both cpcat and myself posted some settings where we adjusted the color temp individual gain and bias colors to smooth out the gray scale. Since I have done this, the false contouring I had noticed on a very minimal basis is all but gone. I still get a minor case of this on a certain show or two (american idol comes to mind). I'm hoping further tweaks and or a professional calibration will eliminate this completely. Make some adjustments and report back. Take care,

First off let me say that I had a great experience purchasing my 50XR5 through Chris at Cleveland plasma, he has been very responsive to all my questions. Overall I have to say I'm happy with the XR5 the colors are great and even SD is not bad, but I do see a lot of what is called clay face or false contouring. I see it in Sd to HD, although the better the HD presentation the less so. I have tried outputting the signal from my moto 6412 through component as well as DVI to HDMI cables with not too much difference. This plasma is an upgrade from a 42 Visio which also had its fair share of clay face but I seem to notice it more now, maybe because the 50 is just so much bigger. still I'm surprised because there is not much mention of this problem of mine on this thread. Any suggestions? Could it be the Moto box? Is there a setting I'm missing? Don't everybody panic who are considering this plasma, overall I'm still happy.

I've not seen this on my NEC. I didn't see it on my Panasonic either. It's been sporadically reported as a problem with the Panasonics but this is the first I've heard on the NEC. My suspicion is it's source related. It might be interesting to try a DVD source if you can.

As an aside, there seems to be confusion in terms regarding description of artifacts. I'm not sure that false contouring=clay face. I've seen pictures of clay facing, and that's exactly what it looks like-- a clay face on a human. I've never quite understood what false contouring is or if we all even use it to describe the same artifact. If false contouring=clay face, great. I finally understand it. :)

Two other common artifacts: dithering noise and banding. These I think are used fairly consistently and everyone seems to be describing the same thing. Some use false contouring synonymously with banding which is I believe is incorrect.

Another one: solarization. This seems to me to just be banding which you see from a bright light source in the center of the picture like a sunset.

Another one: posterization. Not sure what this is.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now.

tony17,

Thanks for the input. I will copy the settings and input them tonight, I have ramped the sharpness down in the 0-4 range and to be honest have not noticed much difference. I will keep tweaking!

cpcat,

Clay face, false contouring? I dont know, I guess it looks like clay face to me. I have also noticed the banding in bright streens as you describe but this does not bother me as much.

I've not seen this on my NEC. I didn't see it on my Panasonic either. It's been sporadically reported as a problem with the Panasonics but this is the first I've heard on the NEC. My suspicion is it's source related. It might be interesting to try a DVD source if you can.

As an aside, there seems to be confusion in terms regarding description of artifacts. I'm not sure that false contouring=clay face. I've seen pictures of clay facing, and that's exactly what it looks like-- a clay face on a human. I've never quite understood what false contouring is or if we all even use it to describe the same artifact. If false contouring=clay face, great. I finally understand it. :)

Two other common artifacts: dithering noise and banding. These I think are used fairly consistently and everyone seems to be describing the same thing. Some use false contouring synonymously with banding which is I believe is incorrect.

Another one: solarization. This seems to me to just be banding which you see from a bright light source in the center of the picture like a sunset.

Another one: posterization. Not sure what this is.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now.


I would suggest clayface to be renamed as plasterization.. :D :D

No clay faces here

I know we are requested not to discuss price, but I need some feedback. Has anyone purchased an NEC plasma from Pricemad? If so, have you called NEC to see if the serial number comes up as a new unit carrying a warranty? I am interest to get some feedback on this since they are selling the NEC 50XR5 about 10-15 percent cheaper than anyone else. NEC says they are not a licensened as a Plasma reseller, but if the serial number is good, so is the warranty.

The pixel pitch of the 42XR4 is different from the 50XR5 and 61XR4. You'd expect the pitch to be different, but what about the "shape"?

42XR4 - 0.900mm X 0.671mm ( rectangular )
50XR5 - 0.810mm X 0.810mm ( square )
61XR4 - 0.990mm X 0.990mm ( square )

What effect will this have on the picture quality? Uneducated opinion is that the picture quality won't be as good.What's the source if this information?

Type "pixel pitch NEC 42XR4" into Google and see what comes up. At different sites I find:
0.90mm x 0.90mm
0.900mm x 0.671mm
1.08 mm x 1.08 mm

I'm most apt to believe the NEC spec sheet (http://www.necvsd.com/Pxchange/source/spec/NEC080534.pdf) which states that the Pixel Pitch of all 3 new gen panels is 1.08 mm square.

I know we are requested not to discuss price, but I need some feedback. Has anyone purchased an NEC plasma from Pricemad? If so, have you called NEC to see if the serial number comes up as a new unit carrying a warranty? I am interest to get some feedback on this since they are selling the NEC 50XR5 about 10-15 percent cheaper than anyone else. NEC says they are not a licensened as a Plasma reseller, but if the serial number is good, so is the warranty.

That would not be a true statement. They will look at your invoice and see they are not an authorized reseller and possibly void your warranty. There are no loop holes in there system.

My suspicion is it's source related. It might be interesting to try a DVD source if you can.

As an aside, there seems to be confusion in terms regarding description of artifacts. I'm not sure that false contouring=clay face. I've seen pictures of clay facing, and that's exactly what it looks like-- a clay face on a human. I've never quite understood what false contouring is or if we all even use it to describe the same artifact. If false contouring=clay face, great. I finally understand it. :)




cpcat, I,ve never seen this on dvd's, so it may be source related. As for what it is officially called, I have no idea, but false contouring may have been the wrong word. I know it is definitely not clayface because I have seen that. What I see (on a very seldom basis), only happens during a fast moving scene, where the camera is panning quickly away from an individual. It may just be compression noise in the feed, but I am not sure.

What's the source if this information?

Type "pixel pitch NEC 42XR4" into Google and see what comes up. At different sites I find:
0.90mm x 0.90mm
0.900mm x 0.671mm
1.08 mm x 1.08 mm

I'm most apt to believe the NEC spec sheet (http://www.necvsd.com/Pxchange/source/spec/NEC080534.pdf) which states that the Pixel Pitch of all 3 new gen panels is 1.08 mm square.
Your spec sheet (NEC 080534) has been updated (NEC 100519).

Here's how the current spec sheet reads:

Pixel Pitch PX-42XR4A 0.900mm x 0.671mm
PX-50XR5A 0.81mm x 0.81mm
PX-61XR4A 0.99mm x 0.99mm

Bottom line: 50 & 61 inchers are square. Pitch of 42" is rectangular.

Also, have you done any setting adjustments yet. If you look back, both cpcat and myself posted some settings where we adjusted the color temp individual gain and bias colors to smooth out the gray scale. ,

Hey Tony, I'm getting my monitor tomorrow afternoon (thanks Chris!!) and wanted to ask a question about the screen settings. I've gone back through and saved your recommendations on various settings. How much of this will vary depending on source? I have AVIA and I'm familier with the standard settings from my old RPTV (contrast, brightness, hue, tint) but I've never used AVIA for more than those 4 settings. When I get my TV, I plan to connect my SA8300 HD DVR through HDMI eventually (component initially) and my Denon 2900 through component. How applicable will the settings that you and Cpcat have posted be to my setup? (based on your experience of using different sources and having to make adjustments) Should I expect there to me more variation in the specific color settings (which is grayscale, right?) versus the standard adjustment settings? Thanks.

rhoffman,

I would suspect that the contrast and brightness settings would vary the most from source to source. As for the individual colors, they may vary slightly as well depending on your source. I recommend going to the gray scale patterns on AVIA and changing the bias and gain colors (under color temp) to get that to be as smooth as possible. Then go back to ensure that the colors still look accurate (and adjust if needed individually).

I took that and copied it over to my HDTIVO and then made adjustments as I saw fit. The color settings varied slightly from one to the other.

As for the SA8300HD, let me know what you end up with. I was supposed to have that box two weeks ago, but Comcast keeps screwing me, so it is finally going to be here Saturday (I hope at least). Maybe we can compare settings then.

That would not be a true statement. They will look at your invoice and see they are not an authorized reseller and possibly void your warranty. There are no loop holes in there system.

Additionally, if you search this forum for pricemad you will find some unfavorable info. Specifically on resellerratings.com if you get past the first page of (probably fake) reviews, there are several bad stories. And with no warranty, not worth it.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller11587-p2-s1-d1.html#reviews

As long as you guys are talking settings, I have a question about the set up level (pedestal). Do most of you use 0, 3.5, or 7.5?

I tried experimenting going between 0 and 7.5 (for component inputs). The 7.5 level definitely lowers the base black level a couple of notches. When I have it set at 7.5 the brightness setting comes out to about 32 from AVIA. With the setting at 0, the brightness comes out to about 13 from AVIA. Can't tell a whole lot of difference between the two setups when watching DVDs.

When using those same settings for TV though, the images are a little dark. Losing some shadow detail in some scenes. I haven't been able to calibrate this yet out of my SA3250HD so I just bumped the brightness up about 6 or 8 or so, but it is still a little dark. Hopefully I will get the calibration done early Sat. morning from INHD if my alarm gets me up at six am.

Just wondering who else has played with this and what they came up with. Oh, and by the way I have the 42 which doesn't have a low tone setting so I don't know if this makes a difference or not.

I have a few questions for fellow 50XR5 owners. This is my first plasma and I thought that when plasmas are off and also when they are displaying a pure black screen they should look the same. Is this incorrect. I had set in the menu to show black when there is no input and in a dark room the screen is significantly brighter than when the tv is off. Could I have a problem? Is there some setting I missed, or is this how it should be? I thought the lighting technology was similar to CRT tubes, and with those alot of times I can not tell if the tv is on or not if there was no input because there would be no light being output. I hope this question makes sense. Please chime in if you are an owner. Thanks.

That would not be a true statement. They will look at your invoice and see they are not an authorized reseller and possibly void your warranty. There are no loop holes in there system.


Chris,

I was just quoting the NEC rep on the phone and she said they do not care about the invoice seller as long as the serial number shows the unit was not a 2nd or refurb, the warranty would be honored.

I will most likely end up buying my unit from you anyway.

Hello everyone.

I'm having a hard time deciding between the XM4A and the XR4 42" panels. Can anyone give me some insight as to justifying the extra cost for the XR4 over the XM4A? The extra HDMI ports are not really an issue.

I'm more concerned about menu options as I've heard the XR4 is considerably more equipped for fine tuning.

Thanks!

...I'm not sure that false contouring=clay face. I've seen pictures of clay facing, and that's exactly what it looks like-- a clay face on a human. I've never quite understood what false contouring is or if we all even use it to describe the same artifact. If false contouring=clay face, great. I finally understand it. :)

Two other common artifacts: dithering noise and banding. These I think are used fairly consistently and everyone seems to be describing the same thing. Some use false contouring synonymously with banding which is I believe is incorrect.

Another one: solarization. This seems to me to just be banding which you see from a bright light source in the center of the picture like a sunset.

Another one: posterization. Not sure what this is.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now.

Wikipedia has a good definition and photo example of posterization. Apparently, it is a desirable special effect in photographic manipulation. The best example it makes me think of is the movie "Waking Life" where live action is cartoonized, for lack of a better term. There is a commercial running currently featuring the same technique. A finer gradation of tones in a region of an image is replaced with fewer grades, and more abrupt changes. I would think a more limited color palette would result in the same defect. If clay face is describing less-than-detailed coloring, I'd say it is the same. I keep thinking I'd be watching Celebrity Deathmatch...

CNET's HDTV World glossary defines false contouring as:
An artifact common to fixed-pixel displays that produces splotchy, distinct sections in what should be gradual gradations of color or shadows. Also referred to as solarization and posterization.

Wikipedia defines solarization differently, not equating it to false contouring. It is also named more appropriately the Sabatier Effect, which is a photography development effect, if deliberate, or defect, if a mistake. Its outcome on the image could be translated to a video display, and that would be a reversal of tones, like with a photographic negative. I am interpreting, not stating authoritatively.

I'll leave banding and dithering for an extracurricular exercise.

cpcat, I respect your authoritah, so please don't think I'm patronizing. If AVS doesn't have a glossary, it should...

This thing is going to be hot product. People are busy with panasonic and pioneer and don't know what they are missing.
I like the minimalistic design.
Mine should be here within a week or so .

Is this as good as the Pioneer Elite? Or are you comparing it to the non Elite line?

Hello everyone.

I'm having a hard time deciding between the XM4A and the XR4 42" panels. Can anyone give me some insight as to justifying the extra cost for the XR4 over the XM4A? The extra HDMI ports are not really an issue.

I'm more concerned about menu options as I've heard the XR4 is considerably more equipped for fine tuning.

Thanks!
There's a difference in warranty between the XR and the XM. 3/1 on the XR, 1/1 on the XM.

I have a few questions for fellow 50XR5 owners. This is my first plasma and I thought that when plasmas are off and also when they are displaying a pure black screen they should look the same. Is this incorrect. I had set in the menu to show black when there is no input and in a dark room the screen is significantly brighter than when the tv is off. Could I have a problem? Is there some setting I missed, or is this how it should be? I thought the lighting technology was similar to CRT tubes, and with those alot of times I can not tell if the tv is on or not if there was no input because there would be no light being output. I hope this question makes sense. Please chime in if you are an owner. Thanks.


Ya know... this is an interesting question. So I thought I'd bump it and see if someone out there who owns a 50xr5 can answer it. Very curious indeed.

shane

No, there isn't a problem. There is not a plasma out there that will look exactly the same while on with a blank screen as it does when off. What is your brightness setting by the way?

No, there isn't a problem. There is not a plasma out there that will look exactly the same while on with a blank screen as it does when off. What is your brightness setting by the way?


My brightness is at 50 which I believe is two ticks below the default. This was the type of answer I was looking for. I've never had a plasma before this so I was curious. Thanks!

Chris,

I was just quoting the NEC rep on the phone and she said they do not care about the invoice seller as long as the serial number shows the unit was not a 2nd or refurb, the warranty would be honored.

I will most likely end up buying my unit from you anyway.

I guess I was told different. Amazing how a story is always different depending who you talk to. I guess that is why we learn everyday.

I have a few questions for fellow 50XR5 owners. This is my first plasma and I thought that when plasmas are off and also when they are displaying a pure black screen they should look the same. Is this incorrect. I had set in the menu to show black when there is no input and in a dark room the screen is significantly brighter than when the tv is off. Could I have a problem? Is there some setting I missed, or is this how it should be? I thought the lighting technology was similar to CRT tubes, and with those alot of times I can not tell if the tv is on or not if there was no input because there would be no light being output. I hope this question makes sense. Please chime in if you are an owner. Thanks.Check your manual on page En-24, "Setting the background color when no signal is being input". By default it's set to gray. You can choose black also. Apparently the gray setting makes it easier to see that there is no signal...

My brightness is at 50 which I believe is two ticks below the default. This was the type of answer I was looking for. I've never had a plasma before this so I was curious. Thanks!

Default brightness is 32. The number will turn pink when the default value is displayed. Default contrast is 52. Around 48-50 was where I ended up for contrast.

If using HDMI/DVI and a video level input set HDMI to "high" in setup menu, then set pedestal to zero in picture menu. You should then end up with brightness around 36 if you set the black level through AVIA or THX optimizer.

For component input, change pedestal to 7.5 and you shouldn't have to change anything else (or very little).

Nothing produces black levels on par with CRT yet. Plasma does a good job, though. You'll still see some light from the screen even with brightness/contrast set properly and with the screen background set to black.

Default brightness is 32. The number will turn pink when the default value is displayed. Default contrast is 52. Around 48-50 was where I ended up for contrast.

If using HDMI/DVI and a video level input set HDMI to "high" in setup menu, then set pedestal to zero in picture menu. You should then end up with brightness around 36 if you set the black level through AVIA or THX optimizer.

For component input, change pedestal to 7.5 and you shouldn't have to change anything else (or very little).

For the first 100 hours, do you recommend setting the contrast below your calibrated range of 48-50?

For component input, change pedestal to 7.5 and you shouldn't have to change anything else (or very little).

Do you know this from experience or have read it somewhere? I have looked through the user manual a couple of times and it doesn't anything about the pedestal except that it gets darker than normal by whatever percentage you set it at.

I posted a little while back that I have been playing with this setting a bit to try to get some more dark detail out of the cablebox (hasn't been calibrated yet), but I wasn't sure what setting others are using. If it is the 7.5 setting for component, that will simplify things for me.

I understand that not all universal mounts will fit the NEC. I'm trying to figure out if this one will: It will fit the following bolt spacing:
Horizontal spacing: 15" - 29"
Vertical spacing: up to 18.5"

I've tried to get the manual from www.necvisualsystems.com, but it asks me for a password/username? Anyone else having this problem?

Anyhow, does anyone know if these measurements would suffice for the 50xr5?

Thanks

Have any of y'all used this program to calibrate the color settings, and if so, how was it?

Let me add to the chorus of folks giving props to Chris at Cleveland Plasma. He really is as good as what everyone has said in this thread. I got my 50XR5 before Comcast could even provide me with an HD box! But now that I have the box (albeit without HDMI, but beggars can't be choosers), all I can say is wow. Completely blown away by the PQ on HD, DVD, and even SD. Another completely satisfied customer who bought sight unseen based on all the praise here.

Anyhow, does anyone know if these measurements would suffice for the 50xr5?
Thanks

The Installation Guide is (HERE) (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/InstallationGuides/50XR5_IGv10.pdf) for the NEC PX-50XR5

I understand that not all universal mounts will fit the NEC. I'm trying to figure out if this one will: It will fit the following bolt spacing:
Horizontal spacing: 15" - 29"
Vertical spacing: up to 18.5"

I've tried to get the manual from www.necvisualsystems.com, but it asks me for a password/username? Anyone else having this problem?


The website doesn't prompt me for a password. Go to the front page, then products, then 'home', then click on the 50xr5, then 'resources.' It should pull up the information that you need.

Can't even get to any page under the necvisualsystems, direct link to manual or the homepage all prompt for password, must by my computer system at work?

Manual hosted anywhere else?

RP- keep looking you should be able to lookat the spec. from a couple of different sources. State whay moun t you have. There are many attachment point on the back of this set. onless your mount is some strange co. most should wotk.
try this:
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Products/Product/?product=998b83c4-c482-42bd-89ef-9e66e0cc424c

Mount is from www.easymount.com
The EZLCDP-01 will fit the following bolt spacing:
Horizontal spacing: 15" - 29"
Vertical spacing: up to 18.5"

Horizontal spacing of both the M4 and M8 holes is 20.86. Vertical spacing is 19.28" for the M8 holes and 15.04 for the M4 holes. This is according to the install manual Chris linked to.

So is there anyone here with 42XM4A experience? I'd love a bit of a review apart from warranty and input differences.

Well I am a little tired of everyone braging about there NEC. As some may know my Pioneer 5040HD was a year young and out of style. I have access to just about every plasma available and I chose the best unit in my eyes at this time.

My NEC PX-50XR5

PIC 1 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0804.JPG)

PIC 2 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0805.JPG)

PIC 3 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0808.JPG)

I have seen these at the trade shows however to see in a home inviroment is quite different. There is no dought that the whole 10 mins now that I have used it I have seen enough. Pioneer and Panasonic have something to be concerned about......

I am not seeing any clay face......

Horizontal spacing of both the M4 and M8 holes is 20.86. Vertical spacing is 19.28" for the M8 holes and 15.04 for the M4 holes. This is according to the install manual Chris linked to.

Thanks!

To Cleveland Plasma:



Regardless of the quality of the picture, your photos are the best submitted on this site that I've seen from a content perspective. Thanks for sharing them.

P.S. Pioneer really doesn't have anything to worry about.....They purchased NEC's Plasma unit over a year ago. :)

Do you know this from experience or have read it somewhere? I have looked through the user manual a couple of times and it doesn't anything about the pedestal except that it gets darker than normal by whatever percentage you set it at.

I posted a little while back that I have been playing with this setting a bit to try to get some more dark detail out of the cablebox (hasn't been calibrated yet), but I wasn't sure what setting others are using. If it is the 7.5 setting for component, that will simplify things for me.

That's my experience. It doesn't specify in the manual. It makes sense, though, as the video grey scale is set by convention with black at 7.5 IRE. Below 7.5 IRE is therefore "blacker than black". For analog input from PC (VGA, RGBHV) you should set it at 0 as black is 0 IRE on the PC standard. The PC grey scale does not allow for blacker than black.

If inputting through HDMI/DVI, setting "high" for video or "low" for PC in the setup menu does the same thing, so in that case leave the pedestal at zero in the picture menu.

Regardless of the quality of the picture, your photos are the best submitted on this site that I've seen from a content perspective. Thanks for sharing them.



I like Pic 3 the best. Didn't look much for clay facing. There doesn't appear to be any clay-T or clay-A though. :D

For the first 100 hours, do you recommend setting the contrast below your calibrated range of 48-50?


I didn't. I just kept black bars to a minimum. Still do, really, but ghosting is now much less of a problem. I'll probably worry less and less after the 500 hour point.

It seems that temporary ghosting is pretty common with these panels in the first several hundred hours. I've not heard of anyone with any permanent burn-in issues yet. I suspect you'd really have to try hard for that to happen. A 60,000 hour panel should be difficult to burn in, as the phosphor wear rate is low.

I like Pic 3 the best. Didn't look much for clay facing. There doesn't appear to be any clay-T or clay-A though. :D

Clay-A and Clay-T....that had me going....good one cpcat!! :D

Well I am a little tired of everyone braging about there NEC. As some may know my Pioneer 5040HD was a year young and out of style. I have access to just about every plasma available and I chose the best unit in my eyes at this time.

My NEC PX-50XR5


I have seen these at the trade shows however to see in a home inviroment is quite different. There is no dought that the whole 10 mins now that I have used it I have seen enough. Pioneer and Panasonic have something to be concerned about......

I am not seeing any clay face......


WOW!!!! :eek:

I just sent you a PM.


Roberto

That's my experience. It doesn't specify in the manual. It makes sense, though, as the video grey scale is set by convention with black at 7.5 IRE. Below 7.5 IRE is therefore "blacker than black". For analog input from PC (VGA, RGBHV) you should set it at 0 as black is 0 IRE on the PC standard. The PC grey scale does not allow for blacker than black.

If inputting through HDMI/DVI, setting "high" for video or "low" for PC in the setup menu does the same thing, so in that case leave the pedestal at zero in the picture menu.

Hmmmm.... Thanks for the input, I wasn't sure what this setting was really talking about. Your response gave me a starting point to do some more research on this topic. I did some quick google searching and it sounds as if you can't really be sure what your devices will be outputting to the display. However, it appears that the "standard" is for component video to also have a 0 IRE level for black like HDMI/DVI, and a 7.5 level for composite and s-video. Many DVD players have the ability to adjust this to also output black as 7.5 over component by setting an enhanced black or similar switch (my DVD player doesn't have this so I am guessing it is outputting 0 IRE for black).

In either case though, it sounds as though we should be able calibrate the NEC to accommodate either type of input no matter what the pedestal is set at by adjusting the contrast at brightness. This appears to be the case in my setups because I can barely distinguish between the two memory settings I did from Avia with one at 0 and the other at 7.5.

I have a suspicion though that cablebox may have a different pedestal than the DVD player since the dark scenes seem like they are getting crushed, especially in SD. Anyway, I will be able to calibrate the HD signal Sat. morning from INHD and hopefully I will be all set with the possible exception of SD. Don't know if a cablebox output one pedestal for HD and another for SD, but hopefully not.

Well I am a little tired of everyone braging about there NEC. As some may know my Pioneer 5040HD was a year young and out of style. I have access to just about every plasma available and I chose the best unit in my eyes at this time.

My NEC PX-50XR5

PIC 1 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0804.JPG)

PIC 2 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0805.JPG)

PIC 3 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0808.JPG)

I have seen these at the trade shows however to see in a home inviroment is quite different. There is no dought that the whole 10 mins now that I have used it I have seen enough. Pioneer and Panasonic have something to be concerned about......

I am not seeing any clay face......



I have the commercial version of this set, the 50XM5A and although I haven't mounted it yet I just could not wait to hook it up and see the picture. I am watching it proped up against the wall and all I can say is WOW. The clarity and sharpness of this set is amazing. I have it hooked up to the satellite receiver via an HDMI to DVI cable and the picture is awesome. I have only adjusted the settings a little and can't wait to get it up and calibrated. So far the black level has impressed me.

I just got a chance to see one of these in person (the 50XR5). The fan noise is very very quiet (you can only hear it if you hold your ear up to the set and even then it is a 'soft', low frequency sound). There was also no discernable buzz from the electronics. I was also suprised at how little heat radiated from the screen for a plasma display. I'm just about certain I'm going to pick up the 42XR4.

I did some quick google searching and it sounds as if you can't really be sure what your devices will be outputting to the display. However, it appears that the "standard" is for component video to also have a 0 IRE level for black like HDMI/DVI, and a 7.5 level for composite and s-video. Many DVD players have the ability to adjust this to also output black as 7.5 over component by setting an enhanced black or similar switch (my DVD player doesn't have this so I am guessing it is outputting 0 IRE for black).

.


The video standard grey scale is 7.5-235 IRE with 7.5 being black and 235 white. This allows for below black and above white. Proponents of this standard say this allows for more headroom for better black and white detail.

The PC standard grey scale is 0-255 and doesn't allow for below black or above white but uses more steps.

Whether analog or digital the output can be set for either. Most devices meant for consumer video will output the video scale by default or have an ability to switch between the two.

You can look in the manual of the device you are using and it may indicate which standard is used. "CEA/EIA-861" is commonly seen for DVI/HDMI which is set to the video standard. Component (YPbCr) output is set to the video standard by convention.

This still doesn't mean you can't experiment with what looks best to you. By all means, that's what it's all about.

The pedestal setting in the picture menu would appear to be designed to adjust the black pedestal for analog inputs. The HDMI "high" or "low" setting would appear to do the same for the HDMI inputs. I don't think they are to be used simultaneously. If you set HDMI to "high" and place pedestal to anything but zero, you will definitely crush the blacks for an HDMI input. HDMI to "low" with pedestal at 7.5 should be equivalent to HDMI at "high" with pedestal at 0 assuming you are using the HDMI input. The HDMI "high" or "low" setting doesn't effect an analog input.

Ok, silly question. I just unboxed the thing. The manual lists the contents as having 'ferrite cores,' 'cable clamps,' and batteries for the remote. I can't for the life of me find these things. Are they not supposed to be in the separate box containing the cord, remote, and manuals?

Ok, silly question. I just unboxed the thing. The manual lists the contents as having 'ferrite cores,' 'cable clamps,' and batteries for the remote. I can't for the life of me find these things. Are they not supposed to be in the separate box containing the cord, remote, and manuals?

The ferrite cores came in the same box as the power cord if I remember. I'm sure whoever you bought from can send you some if they were omitted. Alternatively, I believe PC/electronic stores carry them.

I guess the cable clamps would be important if you are wall mounting. I don't use mine. I could send mine to you if you can't find them or get some more sent out.

I just checked the AVIA test pattern "Color Decoder Check" on AVIA. Using blue, red, and green filters it's a way of checking the accuracy of your display's color decoder. It reads a perfect zero for all three. This is the best performance on this test I've seen without a doubt. My Sony lcd RPTV had done the best up to this point followed by the Panny TH-50PX50U. Pretty impressive. :)

I am preparing for a 50XR5 wall mount installation and have a few questions:

1) How long is the power cord?

2) Should I independently connect each source allowing calibration by input/device or can I use a switcher and program different memories for a single input?

I’m sure I’ll have more but that will get me started. I’m looking to route wires through the wall and possibly down through a basement crawl space to a cabinet on an adjacent wall. I also have a temptation to run a 50' cable from my Lumagen scaler dedicated to my basement Theater and connect that as well; for curiosity more than anything else.

I like Pic 3 the best. Didn't look much for clay facing. There doesn't appear to be any clay-T or clay-A though. :D

Yeah ..But the blacks are better in pic 1 & 2 ... :D :D :D

For those of you w/o a surround sound setup, what are you using for speakers? Anyone have the NEC side mounts? How do they sound? I'm trying to keep the look uncluttered. Thanks.

I just checked the AVIA test pattern "Color Decoder Check" on AVIA. Using blue, red, and green filters it's a way of checking the accuracy of your display's color decoder. It reads a perfect zero for all three. This is the best performance on this test I've seen without a doubt. My Sony lcd RPTV had done the best up to this point followed by the Panny TH-50PX50U. Pretty impressive. :)


when setting the R, G, and B settings on the AVIA disc, which parameters are you changing?

Bias?

or Gain?

when setting the R, G, and B settings on the AVIA disc, which parameters are you changing?

Bias?

or Gain?

This was with default settings. Changing the color temp doesn't seem to effect the color decoder test much. Changing from mid-low to mid to high at default settings it seemed to stay about the same. Tint/saturation does seem to effect it though as well as the color tune cuts/drives. Again, though, those I left at default as well. Feeding NR through my scaler, tint and saturation is disabled for me so I have to adjust tint/saturation through the scaler. I have tint at default on the scaler and saturation slightly above default but at a level that is fairly undersaturated according to the AVIA blue bars test patterns.

So I think the message here is that the NEC's color decoder is very accurate to begin with. You should be able to use AVIA to get the same result simply by adjusting the saturation/hue with the blue bars test then doing the color decoder check.

I'm another person who has been waiting for a Panny 50PHD8UK but am now about to pull the trigger on a NEC 50XR5, given the great info in this thread.

One question on stretching HD. When watching a network HD program, almost all advertisements are SD. Is there a stretch mode on the NEC that, when selected, will stretch the SD to 16x9 during ads but not mess up the full HD picture during the program?

I'm another person who has been waiting for a Panny 50PHD8UK but am now about to pull the trigger on a NEC 50XR5, given the great info in this thread.

One question on stretching HD. When watching a network HD program, almost all advertisements are SD. Is there a stretch mode on the NEC that, when selected, will stretch the SD to 16x9 during ads but not mess up the full HD picture during the program?

Yes, you just push the button on the remote to switch to Stadium mode. You then switch back to Anamorphic mode when the HD show comes back on.

Yes, you just push the button on the remote to switch to Stadium mode. You then switch back to Anamorphic mode when the HD show comes back on.
That'll work. I was hoping that leaving it in Stadium mode when the program returned might give the same effect as changing back to Anamorphic mode, though it sounds like doing this would result in the center of the picture being stretched out unneccesarily. An "auto-switch" mode would sure be nice. Ah, well. Thanks for the info!

If the station would switch to 480p/i during commercial breaks that would be possible. Otherwise there's no way for the TV to tell the difference.

I don't think anyone has posted has any pictures of the 42XR4 yet. Here are a couple I took this afternoon, not that they look much different than the 50's.

BTW, I haven't seen any banding and have seen no image retention with about 40 hours so far. I also am appreciating the bonded color filter for reducing reflections. The NEC is much more watchable during the day with no shades closed than my previous CRT, even though it has much more glass.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/502/nec_u2_grill.jpg

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/502/cheetahs.jpg

When I'm watching HD, many of the SD commercials come in at 480i/p, so the NEC switches the WIDE mode to stadium for 480i/p, and leaves the HD stuff at anamorphic.

N8G, Looking pretty sweet. All we need now is the owners of the 61" to post some pics.

When I'm watching HD, many of the SD commercials come in at 480i/p, so the NEC switches the WIDE mode to stadium for 480i/p, and leaves the HD stuff at anamorphic.
Nice to hear that this sometimes does kick in. My Moto 6200 series cable box doesn't have a pass-through, so I may be out of luck, since I think it always passes the signal as 1080i. I currently have a Panny 42PWD6UY ED panel, so I'm really getting excited about making the jump up in size and resolution. :)

N8G, Looking pretty sweet. All we need now is the owners of the 61" to post some pics.

Give me a couple of weeks. Waiting for delivery......................

Chris,

What does the 50xr5 do better than the Pioneer 5060?

When I'm watching HD, many of the SD commercials come in at 480i/p, so the NEC switches the WIDE mode to stadium for 480i/p, and leaves the HD stuff at anamorphic.

Pretty cool, so I guess the NEC remembers the zoom setting per source resolution? Is this special or a standard thing a lot of displays do? Philips has an "automatic" zoom mode which I think is supposed to remove any black bars, but I don't know how well it works. E.g. when I saw one at Costco it seemed to stretch a really wide format movie taller than normal, while the TV next to it showed horiz black bars at the top/bottom. I personally would prefer black bars in that situation.

And a random question while I'm here... about how much time does it take to switch inputs? (Doesn't matter too much, just wondering.)

Chris,

What does the 50xr5 do better than the Pioneer 5060?

Short version.

First Pioneer makes a great product. This is my personal opinion. No offense to anyone and take it for what it is worth.

First off I have a Adelphia DVR with great HD programs recorded on it and I have seen these programs many times as I have shown the new guys HD on a Pioneer PDP-5040HD plasma. There were some drawbacks to the Pioneer but I thought how can anything be any better? In one years time I never touched a setting. (NOTE: To view a plasma in any enviroment besides a home is "different". I thought I had the king of the hill.)

Pioneer has a "Fast motion blur" that the NEC does not have. It takes a while to see it on the Pioneer but it is there. I guess a good scaler will take care of this but why pay the extra costs? I would put the 5040 up against the 5060 as I have had a little time to view these. Nothing Pioneer did , as far as improvements, was that noticeable to see in my eyes. Yes there were improvements in 2 generations but no leaps and bounds of improvements.

I have 3 hours of viewing on my new NEC and here is what I see. Everything is about 15% crisper on the NEC and the NEC still has the Pioneer color pop. Black levels are there. SD content is about 300% better than the Pioneer. (That is not a typo). It got to the point were I would only watch 480i and better because the SD content was so bad on the Pioneer. DVD content is off of a 3 year old progressive scan JVC DVD player. (I do not like any of the upscaling DVD players, the functions are to slow). Pioneer did a great job upscaling but the NEC does better. Cleaner, crisper, and color explosion. Need I say more.

Don't believe me come see for yourself anytime.....

"One more thing" Do not think for a second that this is a new and super improved NEC panel, NEC has always been a leader in plasma and projector technology. Why do they not get the hype? Easy, they rely on word of mouth...just like me....

That is it for now........

And a random question while I'm here... about how much time does it take to switch inputs? (Doesn't matter too much, just wondering.)

It switches inputs very quickly. When I am watching an HD recording from the HD dvr and want to fast forward through a commercial, I am able to change the input to Stadium before FFing without having the time to see any black bars. It changes that quickly.

Short version.

First Pioneer makes a great product. This is my personal opinion. No offense to anyone and take it for what it is worth.

First off I have a Adelphia DVR with great HD programs recorded on it and I have seen these programs many times as I have shown the new guys HD on a Pioneer PDP-5040HD plasma. There were some drawbacks to the Pioneer but I thought how can anything be any better? In one years time I never touched a setting. (NOTE: To view a plasma in any enviroment besides a home is "different". I thought I had the king of the hill.)

Pioneer has a "Fast motion blur" that the NEC does not have. It takes a while to see it on the Pioneer but it is there. I guess a good scaler will take care of this but why pay the extra costs? I would put the 5040 up against the 5060 as I have had a little time to view these. Nothing Pioneer did , as far as improvements, was that noticeable to see in my eyes. Yes there were improvements in 2 generations but no leaps and bounds of improvements.

I have 3 hours of viewing on my new NEC and here is what I see. Everything is about 15% crisper on the NEC and the NEC still has the Pioneer color pop. Black levels are there. SD content is about 300% better than the Pioneer. (That is not a typo). It got to the point were I would only watch 480i and better because the SD content was so bad on the Pioneer. DVD content is off of a 3 year old progressive scan JVC DVD player. (I do not like any of the upscaling DVD players, the functions are to slow). Pioneer did a great job upscaling but the NEC does better. Cleaner, crisper, and color explosion. Need I say more.

Don't believe me come see for yourself anytime.....

"One more thing" Do not think for a second that this is a new and super inproved NEC panel, NEC has always been a leading in plasma and projector technology. Why do they not get the hype? Easy, they rely on word of mouth...just like me....

That is it for now........

I'm still confused about the 50XR5 and 42XR4. Are they both the same generation model? Another words, would both of these models be considered like an 8th generation Panny or 6th generation Pioneer? Seems in the specs that the 42" has newer technology.

Well I am a little tired of everyone braging about there NEC. As some may know my Pioneer 5040HD was a year young and out of style. I have access to just about every plasma available and I chose the best unit in my eyes at this time.

My NEC PX-50XR5

PIC 1 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0804.JPG)

PIC 2 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0805.JPG)

PIC 3 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0808.JPG)

I have seen these at the trade shows however to see in a home inviroment is quite different. There is no dought that the whole 10 mins now that I have used it I have seen enough. Pioneer and Panasonic have something to be concerned about......

I am not seeing any clay face......

What are those lines on the upper left hand corner? Is that from the camera?

What are those lines on the upper left hand corner? Is that from the camera?

Yes that is from the camera.....I could not see anything like this on the screen !!

Who knows what is what are who is working with who...... These are the same generation screens and why one is 4 and 1 is 5 only NEC knows....

1-800-284-4484 ...NEC's contact info.

I didn't. I just kept black bars to a minimum. Still do, really, but ghosting is now much less of a problem. I'll probably worry less and less after the 500 hour point.

It seems that temporary ghosting is pretty common with these panels in the first several hundred hours. I've not heard of anyone with any permanent burn-in issues yet. I suspect you'd really have to try hard for that to happen. A 60,000 hour panel should be difficult to burn in, as the phosphor wear rate is low.

Hmmm, maybe it's just me but temporary ghosting still scares the hell out of me, especially on a major purchase. If there's a guest on Larry King i'm interested in i'm going to be sitting there wondering "what if" instead of enjoying the show. I'm watching SNL right now and has a permanent logo on the bottom right corner, is this something that could burn in?

I almost went with a 42" panel, but decided to spend a bit more and get the 50"... now i wish i had the 61"!!! ha ha ha and it's only been 2 weeks!

Seriously, bigger is better, especially with a high quality source...

Just my 2 cents,
Jeff
Never ever go for a 42" FP at 14' unless budget and furniture is the limiting feature. Anyone using a 42" would be using a CRT 4:3 viewing distance calculator (See vd calculator link in my signature block). I view a 45" Sharp at 8.5' only because it was the largest panel outside the $20K 65" I can easily view the new 57" debuting next month and perhaps even a 65" if the budget could handle it. The Sharp is a 1080P Native Display doing 1080i in 1:1 no pixels can be seen until your within less than 2' - 45" is not all that large to my eyes taking that to 14' is a huge diminishing scale of immersion unless someone is buying a state of the art panel to view SD? That would be insane.

I owned the 60" SXRD briefly and it was too large for only "SD Turdvision" (=headaches) but in HD was amazing WoW Factor in the Sweet Spot. Had the Panny PX500 afterwards as members rave about it here and hated it's reflective panel in my sunny room and it could not =SXRD Wow Factor in HD not even close and it had dirty whites.

My Sharp is perfect except for it's size at 8.5' a 57" would be perfect for immersiveness with 1080i. That person with 14' vd a 42" is going to be mighty small and is about double the recommended distance by THX formula's viewing HD material.

Had not known the NEC used a non-reflective panel and of course there's nowhere to actually see one in my region when I checked last year, the closest I could find was Chicago and I'm not driving 350 miles to view a TV. I've seen some rave reviews by European AV folks (Germany) last year where it was chosen as the Best - I think it was the 61". Good Luck on your NEC's the feedback seems unusually positive compared to other panels - Congrats to all for a taking a leap of faith without a hands on view. Always go for the larger quality panel even if it seems too large at first - within 2 weeks it shrinks but a larger panel does not loose the wow factor displaying an HD movie. The impression of the SXRD display showing Van Helsing in 1080i was simply like nothing I'd ever seen and watched the exact same content on the PX500 at 50" and it had ZERO Wow Factor a week later. The SXRD had a form factor the wife hated (even though it repeatedly had her verbalizing "WoW" throughout VanHelsing She's OCD) and either it had to go or I. I would expect a 61" NEC could match it and not require a sweet spot.

Wish you all well with your NEC Plasma's and wish we had them for viewing locally. :)

I've had the 42xr4 for about 4 days and I'm very happy with it. I have two questions about the unit.

1. Every time I go to the unit to see if the fans are on, they are off. Are they temp controlled? I put my hands over the fans and feel no strong air flow. I do feel heat rising.

2. When there is a good amount of white on the screen I hear a buzzing sound from the unit. Is that the power supply and do others hear that? It's very faint but I can hear it now that I'm tuned into it.

Chris,

Thanks for your response. I just wish I could see one for myself. Your feedback is a big help.

doopstr2,

How far away are you from the panel when you hear the buzzing? Would altitude be a factor where you live.

Hmmm, maybe it's just me but temporary ghosting still scares the hell out of me, especially on a major purchase. If there's a guest on Larry King i'm interested in i'm going to be sitting there wondering "what if" instead of enjoying the show. I'm watching SNL right now and has a permanent logo on the bottom right corner, is this something that could burn in?

I haven't seen any image retention on my 42xr4. I currently ensure that what program is on does not display black bars. I let the network logo stay in place and haven't seen any retention. When HD channels goto commercials they have black bars on the side. I don't bother with getting rid of them. From time to time I notice that the black bars on the commercials may switch to grey. I think that's a function of the panel?

Hmmm, maybe it's just me but temporary ghosting still scares the hell out of me, especially on a major purchase. If there's a guest on Larry King i'm interested in i'm going to be sitting there wondering "what if" instead of enjoying the show. I'm watching SNL right now and has a permanent logo on the bottom right corner, is this something that could burn in?

Please don't take offense, but if you are that worried about burn-in maybe you should consider a different technology such as LCD or SXRD just for peace-of-mind. It doesn't bother me that much. I don't worry about logos unless they are extremely bright. I watched a two hour 2.35:1 DVD last night. There was faint afterimaging of the black bars that went away completely in less than 5 minutes of watching Discovery HD. I'd estimate I have around 150-200 hours on my panel so far.

doopstr2,

How far away are you from the panel when you hear the buzzing? Would altitude be a factor where you live.

I can hear it anywhere in the room. The room is 17x12. Altitude is not an issue. My panel is at about a 5 degree downward tilt. Would that cause it?

It very strange that I only hear it when there is a good amount of white on the screen. I'm thinking that producing white takes more power?

Is anyone else experiencing the buzzing during "white" scenes on the 42XR4A?

Is anyone else experiencing the buzzing during "white" scenes on the 42XR4A?

I am very sensitive to noise since I have been dealing with a noisy cable box which I just removed from the room containing the 42xr4. I hear nothing at all from the 42xr4 - no buzzing, no fans, etc... Very quiet.

1. Every time I go to the unit to see if the fans are on, they are off. Are they temp controlled? I put my hands over the fans and feel no strong air flow. I do feel heat rising.I don't have a 42XR4A, but I can tell you that the second I turn on my 50XR5A when it's completely cool, the fans turn on. I'm pretty sure that the fans are temperature controlled, with variable speeds. At least that's what I've gathered from the info on this screen (one of the service menus).
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/8545/fansetsvcmenu7ft.th.jpg (http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fansetsvcmenu7ft.jpg)
2. When there is a good amount of white on the screen I hear a buzzing sound from the unit. Is that the power supply and do others hear that? It's very faint but I can hear it now that I'm tuned into it.Does it make this sound when you have the NEC's white screen turned on? An even brighter white screen than this is to set the NEC to black background on no input, then change to an input that has nothing connected, then set the NEC to reverse the image.

I know crap about power, but have you tried plugging your NEC into a different circuit in your house, maybe one that has nothing else on it? Do you have a UPS with a line conditioner to test? If all else fails, I'd call NEC.

LisaM and rnotley,

Thanks for the input.

I too, would like to know if anyone has any experience witht the NEC add-on speakers? How do they sound? are they worth $250.00? I will use my stereo for movies, etc., but do not want to turn on my stereo to watch the news.

Can you tell me how you get into the service menu and does it show how long the unit has been on?

Can you tell me how you get into the service menu and does it show how long the unit has been on?


http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=148

Sorry, yes it does. You have to scroll through the various menu pages to find it.

Is anyone else experiencing the buzzing during "white" scenes on the 42XR4A?

I can hear some buzzing when a very bright screen is being displayed, but only within 4 or 5 feet. Can't hear it farther than that, and never hear anything from the screen during normal viewing at the normal viewing distance. I think this is very common for plasma screens to have some buzzing from bright screens, but it shouldn't be noticeable during regular viewing.

Ahhhhh...no motion blur. I would catch this alot during the football games on the Pioneer. NONE on the NEC. What a panel :D

The black levels on the Steeler uniforms sure looked good tonight.:):)

Ahhhhh...no motion blur. I would catch this alot during the football games on the Pioneer. NONE on the NEC. What a panel :D

Pioneer has motion blur? Could you elaborate? You are basically telling people that a highly respected and among the most expensive plasmas out there are doing something more common with 32" LCD's? This is a pretty bold statement and would love to hear from Pioneer owners on this.

I hear some noise from my 42XR4...

It comes and goes, and is most noticeable when the signal changes...

Haven't noticed if it is correlated to very bright screens or not.

I'm sensitive to noises, but can hear the noise from less than about 5' or so.

I think my noise is from the fan...cuz when I put my head to the back of the panel it's coming from the heat vents.


Is anyone else experiencing the buzzing during "white" scenes on the 42XR4A?

miccos,

the XM4 should be exactly the same as the XR4 except for having one DVI instead of tow HDMI's, otherwise the reviews should be the same. The DVI may allow 1080p (60) whereas the HDMI will not, but I am not positive on that.

So what does that mean for real world application? How does it look different? Does that mean the XM4 is actually better than XR5 - because of allowing 1080p (60)? Thanks.

I'm looking at the NEC or pioneer professional range - I prefer the looks of the NEC myself and price wise, it's better also.

For my viewing distance, I decided on a 42" ... My problem is that I don't know if the NEC 42" allows for a 1:1 mapping using an external scaler ... I know the Pioneer professional does.... and the NEC 50" also does 1:1 mapping using the HDMI input ....

does anyone here in the forum has a video processor hooked up to the NEC 42" and getting a 1:1 mapping? any DVDO HD+/VP30?

thanks,

Marcelo
PS: very informative thread...

Has anyone who has the 42" X4 peeked inside the TV to see what the sticker says in there? Earlier in the thread someone did it with the 50".

Pioneer has motion blur? Could you elaborate? You are basically telling people that a highly respected and among the most expensive plasmas out there are doing something more common with 32" LCD's? This is a pretty bold statement and would love to hear from Pioneer owners on this.


Scroll back a page or two and you will see how I compared my Pioneer PDP-5040HD to the new NEC. I am, or was a Pioneer owner for 18 months. I also owned a Pioneer PDP-5030HD and noticed the same problem. I did state Pioneer makes an excellent panel, as they do. I am NOT bashing Pioneer in any way or form. I owned 2 of there products for quite some time. I did state this was my opinion. This may be a bold statement but I know what I see, during fast action scenes, for one slit second, the screen goes blurry, then cleans up. (not all the time) Especially during sports in HD. I have heard others complain about this from time to time in the forum. The person must have a keen eye as it only happens for a split second. If you like I can demonstrate in person.

Old Pioneer 5030HD setup HERE (http://www.highdefforum.com/gallery/data/501/50_pioneer_2.JPG)
Old Pioneer 5040HD setup HERE (http://www.highdefforum.com/gallery/data/501/DSCF0350.JPG)

So what does that mean for real world application? How does it look different? Does that mean the XM4 is actually better than XR5 - because of allowing 1080p (60)? Thanks.

To make sure we are talking about the same thing, the XM4 is 42" and the XR5 is a 50" model. If you comparing the XM model to the XR model (either 42" or 50"), the advantage to the XM is having one digital input that can accept 1080p (60). How much of an advantage that is we'll have to wait to be seen, when source material at 1080p (60) is available mainstream (i.e. blu-ray HD-DVD). I personally don't think it is much of an advantage though. The XR gives you 2 HDMI's, so you have an extra digital input and 1080p (60) is accepted over the component and vga inputs as well. Personally I think it would have been nice if NEC inlcuded one HDMI and one DVI instead of two HDMI's on the XR5, but I am sure some will disagree. I just don't see the advantage of HDMI when most people use it as a monitor, and the cable runs are short (your not using the audio portion of the HDMI anyway).

I know crap about power, but have you tried plugging your NEC into a different circuit in your house, maybe one that has nothing else on it? Do you have a UPS with a line conditioner to test? If all else fails, I'd call NEC.

Thanks for all the replies on the noise.

I have actually considered that I may have a circuit problem. My house had some minor electrical issues when I first moved in. I'm going to take a look at the circuit. I also have a UPS w/conditioner that I can use as a test. If the UPS clears it up I'll install a line conditioner. Thanks for the suggestions.

Other than this minor annoyance its a great panel.

Ok, some initial impressions. I haven't run through with AVIA yet as I wanted to get some full-screen HD running for a little while before I throw the test patterns up. I've been using the recommendations for settings given before, and they seem to be pretty accurate (the image looks great anyway). This is my first plasma, so sorry, I can't really compare this monitor to others.

That being said, we ended up watching all of the super bowl last night and I was a little worried about image retention seeing as how the TV has probably less than 15 hours on it. I was pleased that when I turned the TV off there was no retention that I could make out. The funny thing is that my roomates must have turned it back on and watched some other stuff on ABC HD that wasn't filmed in HD for a maximum of 45 minutes. When I turned the TV back on after I got home, there was retention of the black bars and the ABC logo (only on a white or gray screen, I couldn't see it when watching Discovery HD). Those images disappeared after 10 minutes of normal HD programming.

So far I love this thing. I've got no complaints. Via Component hookup, normal SD programming looks far better than I would've expected (dare I say, it actually looks good...I use a SA 8300HD DVR box outputting in native mode). There are no dead pixels, the monitor is totally silent (I can hear the fan only if I put my ear up to the back of the TV), and installing it on a Sanus furniture mount (pffp2b) was incredibly easy.

I'll look to calibrate this week and give you guys some pictures.

rhoffman, you have the 50 right? I am starting to think the 50 may be more susceptible to image retention than the 42 because I have seen no image retention on my screen yet. I don't think anyone else with a 42 has reported any either. The good news is that those that do see it with the 50, it goes away quickly. I am just curious if it has to do with the crystal clear panel drive or bonded filter or whatever, but there does seem to be a difference. Or maybe we just don't have a large enough sample of 42 owners, but it is intriguing to me anyway.

I do have the 50xr5. Going off of some others' feedback from here, hopefully the image retention should cease to become an issue relatively quickly. Until then I just need to keep a better watch over my roomates. Remember that I've probably still got less than 20-25 hours on it.

Actually, something else that I noticed (I guess you would call this 'ghosting') is that if I display the white screen and then bring up the OSD, I can see it ghost as I move it to the 6 different locations on the screen. The image retention lasts for only a few seconds, but you can notice, for instance if you move the OSD along the bottom 3 positions, a line across the bottom from where the gray OSD menu is versus the white at the bottom of the screen. It's not something I'm worried about and it isn't something that I've ever noticed with a picture being displayed.

Watched Roman polanski's "Oliver Twist" last nite .
The movie, off course has phenomenonal photography. The dark scenes , shadows and blacks were superb on my 50 XR5, just the right combination , no added vividness or artificial brightness to the colors . Would highly recommend this movie to check ,what NEC display is capable of delivering.

http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=148

Sorry, yes it does. You have to scroll through the various menu pages to find it.
At the risk of asking a stupid question, how do you get rid of the service menu once it's pulled up? The only thing that's worked for me so far is turning off the television.

BTW, I "calibrated" colors using INHD's Tune Up program on Saturday and didn't have to do much at all (turned the tint level down slightly).

I'm looking at the NEC or pioneer professional range - I prefer the looks of the NEC myself and price wise, it's better also.

For my viewing distance, I decided on a 42" ... My problem is that I don't know if the NEC 42" allows for a 1:1 mapping using an external scaler ... I know the Pioneer professional does.... and the NEC 50" also does 1:1 mapping using the HDMI input ....

does anyone here in the forum has a video processor hooked up to the NEC 42" and getting a 1:1 mapping? any DVDO HD+/VP30?

thanks,

Marcelo
PS: very informative thread...

I'd be shocked if NR and 1:1 isn't possible and even easy, but I can't guarantee it as I have the 50XR5. NEC is known for making this a part of their design, though.
When I was having trouble getting NR to my Panny 50 inch consumer, I talked to Patrick Harkin from Lumagen about it and he said something like "Yeah, we usually reccommend NEC plasmas if people ask for that reason". This was before I was even in the market for another plasma.

Anyway, put an email into NEC tech support through their website and I'm sure they'll tell you and they'll probably give you the timings.

At the risk of asking a stupid question, how do you get rid of the service menu once it's pulled up? The only thing that's worked for me so far is turning off the television.

BTW, I "calibrated" colors using INHD's Tune Up program on Saturday and didn't have to do much at all (turned the tint level down slightly).

You can either toggle it off/on or enter the access code again to exit the SM.

I am playing my 50XR5 for the first time tonight. I threw in the new edition of Toy Story 2, which has a 16x9 aspect ratio. Surprisingly, I get black bars top and bottom. Any idea why? I want to find a DVD to loop for break-in, and this one's a good target, but I have to figure out this aspect ratio first. I have made NO settings changes whatsoever, to either the panel or the DVD player (Panny DVD-S97). Both are new out of the box.

Any help, as always, is deeply appreciated.

Thank you!

Try taking the DVD out of the player and closing the tray. Then see if you can acess the settings menu of the DVD player (not the disc)...probably by hitting a button on the remote control for the DVD player. You may need to tell the player that you have a widescreen TV so look for a setting about that. Another culprit could potentially be if your TV is not in the correct 'wide' mode (this is how the button is labled on the TV remote). Be sure to select anamorphic.

Also, I assume you're using either component cables or the HDMI connection? If not, you should.

Toy Story 1 & 2 are filmed in a 1.78:1 aspect ratio, so the picture should fully fill the screen. One other thing might be to make sure that you have selected the widescreen version of the movie (this may be a feature on the disc, or you may need an actual separate DVD). Look to see if the DVD itself (or the DVD case) is labeld widescreen or fullscreen. You obviously want the widescreen version.

Try taking the DVD out of the player and closing the tray. Then see if you can acess the settings menu of the DVD player (not the disc)...probably by hitting a button on the remote control for the DVD player. You may need to tell the player that you have a widescreen TV so look for a setting about that. Another culprit could potentially be if your TV is not in the correct 'wide' mode (this is how the button is labled on the TV remote). Be sure to select anamorphic.

Also, I assume you're using either component cables or the HDMI connection? If not, you should.

Toy Story 1 & 2 are filmed in a 1.78:1 aspect ratio, so the picture should fully fill the screen. One other thing might be to make sure that you have selected the widescreen version of the movie (this may be a feature on the disc, or you may need an actual separate DVD). Look to see if the DVD itself (or the DVD case) is labeld widescreen or fullscreen. You obviously want the widescreen version.

Thanks for all of that advice -- all good. I had arrived at the same conclusion and tinkered a bit with both the player and the panel. With a DVD movie, it is difficult to step thru all of the modes and try to note whether any content is distorted or clipped on the fly. In the end, I chose something that worked for me and moved on to my more pressing priority -- image studying.

After sitting on my panel for nearly three weeks, I finally watched my first DVD scenes. I spent the most time with Toy Story 2, The Crow, and Sin City. Toy Story 2, being a cartoon, was more difficult to armchair analyze because, well, it is a cartoon! I expect distortion and exaggeration and things like skin tone and colors of nature don't have to be accurate. I chose the others for dark impressions.

I tried upconverting The Crow with my DVD player and thought it looked worse in both hi-def modes. 480p was best. That movie has alot of black and for the most part I was happy. I do not have an experienced videophile's eye though.

With Sin City, most of the film is black and white, with wild splashes of vivid color interspersed. With no calibration whatsoever, I found some blatant greyscale errors and banding. Particularly, multiple scenes featured sky or water shots in which the lighter sections had elements of blue/teal that should have been only grey tones. Had the blues not been polluting the scenes, I might not have had any sensation of banding. Watching this film left me with the strongest conviction that calibration of any form is desirable.

The details in Sin City were very solid. Mickey Rourke plays a rough neck with the most textured facial and skin features I've ever seen in a film. I saw every cut, pock mark, whisker, pit, and lump on his face. Cool! I hope true hi-def looks as great!

Image retention definitely occurred. When changing DVD's, my player's splash screen, a common muted blues image, displayed for as many as 5 minutes. Also, as I was sorting out aspect ratios and reviewing default settings, my OSM's were displayed for about as long. Both images were retained for quite a few moments while the resumed films scrubbed them out. And yes, they eventually faded away, within about 10 minutes. I look forward to the passing of 100-500 hours so this phenomenon passes. However, I am not alarmed. Due diligence should reward.

I am playing my 50XR5 for the first time tonight. I threw in the new edition of Toy Story 2, which has a 16x9 aspect ratio. Surprisingly, I get black bars top and bottom. Any idea why? I want to find a DVD to loop for break-in, and this one's a good target, but I have to figure out this aspect ratio first. I have made NO settings changes whatsoever, to either the panel or the DVD player (Panny DVD-S97). Both are new out of the box.

Any help, as always, is deeply appreciated.

Thank you!

I'm not sure about Toy Story, but only 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 DVD's will be displayed without a letterboxed image. Commonly "cinemascope" AR is 2.35:1. You can zoom the bars away but that will crop some of the sides of the image as well.

If Toy Story is 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 then double-check in the DVD setup menu that you have set up for a 16:9 display. Also double check that the TV is set to "anamorphic".

I am ready to buy a 42XR4; but i'm worried about image retention (aka burn-in). I noticed ther is another older thread regarding this issue on NEC plasmas; that dates back almost a year.

If anyone has had several months operating experience; I would appreciate ther comments.

I am ready to buy a 42XR4; but i'm worried about image retention (aka burn-in).
Image retention is not the same as burn-in. Check the sticky at the top of the forum page.

How is the glare on this set?

Anyone compare this to the Pioneer pro 930 hd?
Its only a $500 difference msrp.

I had my first noticeable experience with image retention on the 50XR5 last night during 24. During the final commercial break, I saw a clear 'impression" of our local FOX affiliate logo in the black bar on the lower right-hand corner. Immediately switched to a basketball game and the impression went away after 10 minutes, but it still didn't give me positive vibes -- my contrast and brightness have been at only 20 since the beginning.

That said, my usage time has been 25 hours and I'll probably be very conservative about break-in (i.e., 200 hours instead of 100).

Very pleased otherwise. Jack Bauer and CTU in HD, much more enjoyable.

in an effort to have as few cables hanging down from this display, how do people handle cable management since it appears that some cables (e.g., power) hang down from the back middle while it appears the a/v inputs are from the side (?).

I will be flat mounting mine to solid wood that is the backdrop of my entertainment unit. Ideally, I want no cables visible. Second best would be on cables coming down from the back middle because a center channel speaker will likely be sitting in front of those cables.

Opinions and recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Eric

i see from recent posts that the harmony site only has the xr4 codes. have they updated it yet to include the xr5? (why can't you search their database from their website?)

eric

i see from recent posts that the harmony site only has the xr4 codes. have they updated it yet to include the xr5? (why can't you search their database from their website?)

eric
yes, the Harmony site has the codes for the XR5. I just loaded mine this weekend and all seems well.

I have the 42XR4 and retention is not an issue.

I'm a total worry wart about it too... I totally try to catch it by switching to other channels and getting close the screen. I've only seen retention once. ON my Dell I saw IR once an hour.

Judging from others posts, I think the 42 is MUCH less prone to IR than the 50.


I am ready to buy a 42XR4; but i'm worried about image retention (aka burn-in). I noticed ther is another older thread regarding this issue on NEC plasmas; that dates back almost a year.

If anyone has had several months operating experience; I would appreciate ther comments.

It seems like the decision to purchase gets harder, not easier. :( I had pretty much narrowed my choice down to the 50xr5, until the recent post and resurrected thread about NEC image retention.

It just seems CRAZY to me people are willing to overlook retention of menus and on screen guides that have only been displayed for < 1 minute. Then rationalize the retention by saying use white screen, inverse, and Screen Wiper then run discovery HD for 10 minutes. All things that seem to decrease the panel life, if for no other reason than making you leave the display on longer.

I am lucky that I have been able to see lots of new HD displays in action in home environments as my friends and family members have all jumped in to the HDTV pool. This includes panny & sammy plasmas, an sxrd, and sammy dlp's. A fiends new 70 inch sammy DLP looks great and so does his fathers sammy 67 1080p DLP. In their homes the off axis viewing is still excellent, you almost have to be on top of the screen to notice any darkening. Maybe because the screens are so damn big.

This has just about ended my desire for the NEC, if I spend 4k plus for a TV I do not want to worry about retention leading to burn in from the o to 1000 hour because I bring up my Comcast on screen guide constantly. :confused:

I don't get how people equate image retention to burn-in. They are totally two different things, yes? Burn-in happens because pixels that aren't used as much have a more young age than others next to it, hence the used aka burned pixels are darker.

As for image retention, if you leave a menu open on a black screen for 5 minutes, then close the menu to see just a black screen, doesn't the space where the menu used to be in fact brighter? Doesn't this mean it's doing the opposite of burn-in!?

So far, nobody on this thread has complained of BURN IN. Pretty much all 50" NEC owners say that image retention happens, but occurs less to never over time. It's too bad that all of us are such new NEC owners, but cpcat in a previous post said that he uses his 50" NEC as a monitor and doesn't have retention issues.

Coming from a guy who plays a lot of games on his NEC, even though I might see some image retention (and only if I look for it on black screens), I'm totally not worried about burn-in. And don't all plasmas have some degree of image retention at first?

Yes, I observed image retention. No, I'm also not worried about it. It is a temporary quirk. Still, it is interesting to say, "hey, there it is; so that's what they were talking about." If it weren't for these kinds of phenomena, would there even be a break-in period? How can we on the one hand commit to a break-in regimen, while on the other hand whinge about the panel's behaviors during said break-in for which it was designed to...break in? "Yeah I'm gonna break-in this panel, but gee, I don't want there to be any reason for it!" It's like changing your vehicle's oil filter after the first 600 broken-in miles, then regretting your purchase because you found metal shavings in the filter. Duh, that was the whole point!

I'm not sure about Toy Story, but only 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 DVD's will be displayed without a letterboxed image. Commonly "cinemascope" AR is 2.35:1. You can zoom the bars away but that will crop some of the sides of the image as well.

If Toy Story is 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 then double-check in the DVD setup menu that you have set up for a 16:9 display. Also double check that the TV is set to "anamorphic".

Personally, I question the logic of putting display settings in the DVD player in the first place. Why do I need contrast and gamma in my DVD player AND my display?! I can zoom on the player and the display too, so I could zoom a zoomed image? I'm sure a purist can justify it, but I'd rather the player simply play what is recorded, send the raw data, and let the panel figure out how to shape the image. I feel doubly sorry for 90's era guys hand-wringing about throwing in their line doublers and scalers on top of all of that. I mean, "I paid 3000 frosties for that scaler!" I shouldn't have to tell a 16X9 panel to go to "anamorphic" mode to show a 16x9 DVD!! That should be "NORMAL" for an HD widescreen panel!! If you look in the manual, it even shows a distorted graphic image. That is confusing, because it implies a 16x9 image would be squeezed vertically.

Rant mode off.

I

This has just about ended my desire for the NEC, if I spend 4k plus for a TV I do not want to worry about retention leading to burn in from the o to 1000 hour because I bring up my Comcast on screen guide constantly. :confused:

Ultimately its your choice. I think you need to read more about this before you make that decision . No one has had serious retention or burn in so far.
Minor image retention is very transient can happen with any panel.I personally would buy NEC again, just because of the spectacular PQ.
I personally hate the bulkiness and weight of the 65 & 70 inch ,mitsubushui's , samsungs and sony sxrd panels, having spent lot of time in researching these before pulling the trigger on NEC .

I'd be shocked if NR and 1:1 isn't possible and even easy, but I can't guarantee it as I have the 50XR5. NEC is known for making this a part of their design, though.
When I was having trouble getting NR to my Panny 50 inch consumer, I talked to Patrick Harkin from Lumagen about it and he said something like "Yeah, we usually reccommend NEC plasmas if people ask for that reason". This was before I was even in the market for another plasma.

Anyway, put an email into NEC tech support through their website and I'm sure they'll tell you and they'll probably give you the timings.

Cheers Cpcat, I sent an email to NEC this morning - will post their reply here on the forum ....

I found out you can get NR via the vga/computer input - however this would not allow for scaling HDCP connections (requires HDMI)...

I'm hoping that NEC built in NR on their 42" HDMI input (like they did on their 50").

cheers,

Marcelo

Ultimately its your choice. I think you need to raed more about this before you make that decision . No one has had serious retention or burn in so far.
Minor image retention is very transient can happen with any panel.I personally would buy NEC again, just because of the spectacular PQ.

I don't think some of us who are considering the NEC are worried that burn-in will occur but that it altars the way we would enjoy the wonderful PQ of these sets. It seems the Panny's, Pioneers"s, Toshiba's etc. have less of an IR than the NEC. I think the problem is that it would be harder to enjoy watching many programs knowing that something on the screen may, at the very least, leave a ghosting image even though it seems to eventually go away. I have over 200 channels, and as of now 12 of them are HD channels. If there's breaking news on CNN i'd be a nervous wreck with the ticker. This is what i mean by it altars my viewing habits. I have never seen IR on a Panny, Pioneer, Toshiba, Hitachi, or Philips. I'm still buying a plasma, but at least for me personally i'd have to pass on the NEC because i rarely watch DVD's, plan to use a PC, and primarily watch what is on at the moment.

I agree with you that you should n't have to worry about spending that much amount of money . It seems you are fixated on this issue . I watched CNN , FOX and HD during my first 100 hrs , except few transient rententions , which everyone is complaining of happened to me . I now am not paying attention ot logo's and bars.
I am not sure whether you can generalize that NEC is the most common with this phenomenon. This is common with other plasma panels, in the first 100 hrs . I would be interested in knowing people who have had serious permannet retention enabling them to discard or cahnge the panel . I do no think there are any atleast with the XR5 .
I would advice you though go with your gut feeling .
I am pleased with my decisionof 50 xr5 and will soon be replacing my family room 32 inch sony with a 42 inch NEC.

I now realize IR is not burn-in. I am worried about IR that may not disappear; or continues to occur after the break-in period.
Is there anyone who has 500+ hours that can answer the question? Perhaps Cleveland Plasma?
I am not trying to be contentious; just looking for comments from current owners.
Thanks for your comments.

I now realize IR is not burn-in. I am worried about
IR that may not disappear.
Is there anyone who has 500+ hours that can answer the question?
Perhaps Cleveland Plasma?

I think you still may be a little confused. IR that does not go away has
turned into burn in.

I do not have 500 hours or my on my unit.

Don't all plasmas have some degree of image retention
at first?
All plasma's have some degree of image retention always.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I am seeing a trend here though. The only people who are complaining
about screen IR are those who do not own a NEC. ( I do not understand this)

This has just about ended my desire for the NEC, if I spend 4k plus for a TV I do not want to worry about retention leading to burn in from the o to 1000 hour because I bring up my Comcast on screen guide constantly. :confused:

Okay, I figured I'd chime in because I may have the most hours on my panel thus far (around 350). I can honestly say the IR has diminished significantly at this point. It takes leaving a menu/screen on much longer to see any sort of ghosting. It also goes away much quicker as well - where it took a minute or so to go away before, it only takes a couple of seconds at the most now.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but to not buy this panel because of the temporary ghosting that may occur is a bit overboard in my opinion. In no way, shape or form do I think this would ever lead to burn in or cause any concern for it in the future either. Last years XR4 had the same posts and possibly worse IR and I bet if you ask all of those folks now what their panel is like, not one of them would tell you they have burn-in.

Again, in the end it is your choice, I would just not recommend passing on this panel due to this perceived issue.

I just checked the SM and I have 280 hours on my 50XR5.

Afterimaging or ghosting as I prefer to call it has decreased significantly and it seems to go away faster. As I've said before, I don't think anyone can say that the tendency to afterimage correlates with an increased propensity for permanent image retention. It may or may not.

The only thing quantifiable I can think of which would correlate would be the panel's half-life. Two panels which are both rated the same should have roughly the same risk of burn-in as burn-in is the result of panel aging. Thus, all of the current generation pdp's should be about the same. This would tend to be confirmed by this IDC/Pioneer article as well:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/273087528Pioneer%20DTV%20White%20Paper%20-%20FINAL.pdf

When all else fails, base your decision on sound logic and research. :)

One quick sort of off topic question. If I were to play video games with a static image on the bottom like a football game(xbox 360) withstatic score on the bottom, which would probably leave burn in if I played for to long, and used the screen wiper which every 10 seconds would cause that part of the image to turn white woyuld I still have to worry about image burn in even though the pixels change every couple of seconds? And no I am not talking about IR I just want to know about burn in.
Thanks

I am seeing a trend here though. The only people who are complaining
about screen IR are those who do not own a NEC. ( I do not understand this)


Yeah, I've noticed that too. The only ones throwing up a red flag don't even own an NEC. I don't think I will never own anything else.

I've been following this forum for a while. Two comments from things I've read:

ALL panels will exhibit some IR when they are fresh out of the box.

IR decreases over the break-in period, and most posters have said it is totally a non-issue after the first few hundred hours. Considering the half-brightness life for most panels is 60,000 hours, IR is indeed a non-issue.

When I got my screen I ran it non-stop for a little over 100 hours on any HD setting I could find that filled the screen and had no logo. I have experienced zero IR. Mine is the 50XM5. I was a bit worried that during this time I watched the Super Bowl with the score remaining somewhat in the samp spot for a bit onger than I wanted. No IR whatsoever. I could not be more happy with my screen.

this is a bit disappointing....from NEC:

Thank you for contacting NEC! The 42XR4 plasma can accept 1024X768 through the HDMI on one condition, if the source has a DVI output and can export the 1024X768 signal at 60hz.

Best Regards
NEC VSD Customer Service
1-800-836-0655
www.necvisualsystems.com


So I have to use DVI to get native resolution? Isn't DVI>HDMI backwards?

I though the cables only worked the other way (HDMI>DVI)?

this is a bit disappointing....from NEC:

Thank you for contacting NEC! The 42XR4 plasma can accept 1024X768 through the HDMI on one condition, if the source has a DVI output and can export the 1024X768 signal at 60hz.

Best Regards
NEC VSD Customer Service
1-800-836-0655
www.necvisualsystems.com


So I have to use DVI to get native resolution? Isn't DVI>HDMI backwards?

I though the cables only worked the other way (HDMI>DVI)?


Get the 50"!!!! :D

Next week I will have had my XR for 60 days. I am not sure how many hours- but over the 100 hr benchmark. I have no issues what's so ever. And I am critical of bad PQ- I am a visual guy. I have five different memories. Night & day issues.
{Those of you who do not have an xr & are concerned about bright rooms- forget it- the xr5 rules} I have glass brick walls- you want to see a bright room on a hill.... facing SW by W.
Anyway: I did the screen sweep and white setting about ever other time I used the XR for a long periods. -Just turned it on - when up washed & brushed my teeth. Came down and turned it off. Lights out...
Just a side note an friend came over for SB and after watching the game, asked if I could come over and see if I could get his 50’ SONY HD plasma, to look this good. Granted his SONY is 2 yr older than mine. And he paid $1,900 more… we have the same Comcast feed..
db
POST POST- I switch between the HD & STB to show everyone the two formats. it was interest that many people have really never (neither did I) seen the two formats side by side. and everyone said the STB really did not look all that bad. tho HD rocks....

Keep the info about image retention coming, y'all. It's one lots of us are watching closely. I can live with it for 100 or 200 hours. But I don't want to have to be careful for long after that. So what's really interesting me is what's happening after a few hundred. tony17 & cpcat, your findings seem really promising. It's great that ir is so much less significant after 300 hours. But I can't wait to find out if there's a time when it goes away all together. Thanks.

I don't get how people equate image retention to burn-in. They are totally two different things, yes?

Couldn't IR of the Comcast on screen guide, TV logo, or black bars on a 2.35 DVD lead to burn in? That is what I am concerned about. Also the fact that it is still happening past the 100hr mark

Another point of interest is IR does not seem to be reported as frequently or with the severity of this panel, specifically the 50 inch.

Ultimately it’s your choice. I think you need to read more about this before you make that decision . No one has had serious retention or burn in so far. I understand your point, but not having owned a plasma before, retention of images left on screen for just a minute or two seems severe to me. Hopefully it really is something that is not worth worrying about.

Thanks to Bigmac, cpcat, tony17and others for there input on this issue. A friend’s boss put 2 of these panels in his house last year, going to go check them out ASAP. Just wish it wasn't a drive over the Woodrow Wilson into Alexandria.

this is a bit disappointing....from NEC:

Thank you for contacting NEC! The 42XR4 plasma can accept 1024X768 through the HDMI on one condition, if the source has a DVI output and can export the 1024X768 signal at 60hz.


What are you trying to accomplish?

What are you trying to accomplish?

I have an external scaler and I would like to get 1:1 mapping ..... however with NEC's reply (I got the same reply as you can see below) - it only allows for 60hz ... I'm in Australia.... 50-hz land.... so I'm not sure if it would work well or if I would see too much judder.....

I think the DVI disclaimer is that most other HDMI sources would not output 1024 x 768 ...
___________________________________________________________


Hi Marcelo,

Thank you for contacting NEC! The plasma can accept 1024X768 through the HDMI on one condition, if the source has a DVI output and can export the 1024X768 signal at 60hz.

Best Regards
NEC VSD Customer Service
1-800-836-0655
www.necvisualsystems.com

All,
I will post this here as well as the original thread I put it in since some of you are asking about the NEC and IR.

I would like to share my experience so far with my 50XR5. I have had it about 3 weeks now, and I have been loving every minute of it. I have it hooked up to an HD DirecTV Tivo via HDMI. Now, my one daughter loves to pause things and go do whatever daughters do for long periods of time. I do get a little IR from the Tivo tracking bar at the bottom, but once I change channels, it is gone within a few seconds and I cannot see it anymore. This really does not worry me at all because we have a 50XR4 demo that does the same thing and there are absolutely no signs of burn in. Overall, the 50XR5 is excellent and I am extremely pleased with the unit. If I had to do it all over again, I would still buy the 50XR5 and not think twice about it.

Thanks,
Bob Doseck
Plasma Concepts

I need to add that the image retention depends upon the characterstics of static image to a large degree. For example my son watches disney channels for hours. The disney logo never left even a transient
image. The other day the menu screen of oliver twist left for 5 minutes left did retain and subsequently was cleared after 15 -20 minutes of watching the movie .
Similarly CNN and Fox log's have not caused any image retention.

Boy how did all of this get started when for 20-30 pages of posts there was nothing about image retention.

I am not seeing alot of IR. Nothing that any of the other 7 plasma's I have used for 3 months or more have had. I can tell you that I do see a stunning panel that definitely separates itself from the rest.

this is a bit disappointing....from NEC:

Thank you for contacting NEC! The 42XR4 plasma can accept 1024X768 through the HDMI on one condition, if the source has a DVI output and can export the 1024X768 signal at 60hz.

Best Regards
NEC VSD Customer Service
1-800-836-0655
www.necvisualsystems.com


So I have to use DVI to get native resolution? Isn't DVI>HDMI backwards?

I though the cables only worked the other way (HDMI>DVI)?

This doesn't sound like a problem at all to me. I wouldn't have a scaler with the current spec HDMI-out anyway. DVI out is much more reliable and flexible right now and supports up to 1080p60 in and out. Not so with the current version of HDMI. Also remember that PC output via a video card will be DVI. Sounds like a Lumagen VisionHDP might be in your future. :)

I have an external scaler and I would like to get 1:1 mapping ..... however with NEC's reply (I got the same reply as you can see below) - it only allows for 60hz ... I'm in Australia.... 50-hz land.... so I'm not sure if it would work well or if I would see too much judder.....

I think the DVI disclaimer is that most other HDMI sources would not output 1024 x 768 ...
___________________________________________________________


Hi Marcelo,

Thank you for contacting NEC! The plasma can accept 1024X768 through the HDMI on one condition, if the source has a DVI output and can export the 1024X768 signal at 60hz.

Best Regards
NEC VSD Customer Service
1-800-836-0655
www.necvisualsystems.com

Hmm. I think most folks in 50hz land end up going through VGA for 50hz and 1:1 at least from what I've read. You might PM fellow AVS'er Madshi on this one. He's been posting over in the Video Processor forum lately in the "Anyone getting NR to a Panny from VP30" thread.

Hmm. I think most folks in 50hz land end up going through VGA for 50hz and 1:1 at least from what I've read. You might PM fellow AVS'er Madshi on this one. He's been posting over in the Video Processor forum lately in the "Anyone getting NR to a Panny from VP30" thread.


cheers cpcat,

regards,

Marcelo

The 50XM5 can accept 1080p through the DVI. HDMI is meaningless to me as I have a seperate audio trail.

This afternoon I watched a documentary about Wal-M*. I cannot speak of the quality of the source material, but there was banding in scenes throughout on my 50XR5. I have less than 10 hours on the panel and no calibration. However, I don't think break-in or calibration will reduce banding. Every time I see it, I swear I'm going to go get my digital camera and post photos of it. Most of the time, I notice it in scenes where whiter colors are concentrated -- lighting reflections off plain white walls, overcast skies, etc. I may even pop it into my old DVD player and watch it again on my CRT. Although I am inclined to dismiss it due to the low-budget documentary source, I did notice it multiple times on the Sin City DVD. Can I get honest opinions from other owner viewers?

Sorry to hear about banding.
Please do post images .
I have not noticed any . I may not have observed carefully enough.

Well, I've been following this thread since day one, and I purchased my 50xr5 after page 4 or so.

Here's a link to my setup:

GO! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6972968#post6972968)

I'm in love with this panel, and wouldn't think of trading it for any other. That being said, I've noticed a couple of issues that I wanted to chime in on. First, I've been noticing a phenomenon where people's skin will look like a topographical map (for lack of better way to put it). This is with both SD and HD. It's hit and miss, but seems more likely to occur during fast movement. Is this referred to as false contouring? Banding? I'm not sure.

Another thing I notice is areas of pixellation during HD broadcasts, again most likely to happen during fast movement. Does anybody w/ experience know if this is inherrent in the HD broadcast? I think it may be, but I'd like to know for sure.

Thanks for any responses.

Glad to hear everyone is enjoying their new NECs.

This is the response I got from NEC regarding the input capabilities of the 50xm5 vs. the 50xr5.

"Thank you for contacting NEC! The HDMI input on the PX-50XR5A does not accept 1080P. The DVI input on the PX-50XM5A will accept 1080P. If BD-DVD and HD-DVD output 1080P on component, RGB or DVI the plasma should be able to accept that signal.

Best Regards
NEC VSD Customer Service
1-800-836-0655
www.necvisualsystems.com"

This should answer many questions for some and raise several for others...
Cheers

shane

According the specifications section of XR5A, it DOES except 1080P. Why they telling us it is NOT accepting now???
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Products/Product/?product=8aac5582-4062-4352-9be4-61e01e59df43

According the specifications section of XR5A, it DOES except 1080P. Why they telling us it is NOT accepting now???
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Products/Product/?product=8aac5582-4062-4352-9be4-61e01e59df43

I think that what he was saying is that the XR5 can accept 1080p over component or RGB... the XM5 can also accept over DVI.

Can anyone confirm this assumption?

shane

I’ve had a 42XR4W for a week now, and am seeking advice re. adjustment of white level.

Video that contains large areas of white or pale cream eg. cloudy sky, white or light cream buildings etc. are washed out and lack detail. Everything else is OK. I’ve adjusted the contrast, brightness, color and tint without much success, doing so only messes up the rest of the pix. I had thought it was due to the initial settling in period, but while slight adjustments have been necessary with contrast/brightness etc., the white issue has not improved. It is irrespective of source material ie. it happens with HD SD & composite. I guess there is something else I should be tweaking, so I’d appreciate suggestions.

Apart from this the panel is terrific, and I can thoroughly recommend it. It was a long search involving a lot of research, looking at most other brands and various models, and we couldn’t be more pleased.

I think that what he was saying is that the XR5 can accept 1080p over component or RGB... the XM5 can also accept over DVI.

Can anyone confirm this assumption?

shane

Confirmed. The problem is that HDMI in its current form can't handle 1080p60. DVI can. It's the interface's fault, not the panel's.

This afternoon I watched a documentary about Wal-M*. I cannot speak of the quality of the source material, but there was banding in scenes throughout on my 50XR5. I have less than 10 hours on the panel and no calibration. However, I don't think break-in or calibration will reduce banding. Every time I see it, I swear I'm going to go get my digital camera and post photos of it. Most of the time, I notice it in scenes where whiter colors are concentrated -- lighting reflections off plain white walls, overcast skies, etc. I may even pop it into my old DVD player and watch it again on my CRT. Although I am inclined to dismiss it due to the low-budget documentary source, I did notice it multiple times on the Sin City DVD. Can I get honest opinions from other owner viewers?

Post your current picture settings and maybe someone can help.

I’ve had a 42XR4W for a week now, and am seeking advice re. adjustment of white level.

Video that contains large areas of white or pale cream eg. cloudy sky, white or light cream buildings etc. are washed out and lack detail. Everything else is OK. I’ve adjusted the contrast, brightness, color and tint without much success, doing so only messes up the rest of the pix. I had thought it was due to the initial settling in period, but while slight adjustments have been necessary with contrast/brightness etc., the white issue has not improved. It is irrespective of source material ie. it happens with HD SD & composite. I guess there is something else I should be tweaking, so I’d appreciate suggestions.

Apart from this the panel is terrific, and I can thoroughly recommend it. It was a long search involving a lot of research, looking at most other brands and various models, and we couldn’t be more pleased.

It sounds like you are crushing whites. Post your picture settings including settings for pedestal, low tone, color temp, and HDMI level (assuming you're using HDMI) and maybe someone can help.

AVIA can be helpful as can THX optimizer which is readily available on many DVD's.

This afternoon I watched a documentary about Wal-M*. I cannot speak of the quality of the source material, but there was banding in scenes throughout on my 50XR5. I have less than 10 hours on the panel and no calibration. However, I don't think break-in or calibration will reduce banding. Every time I see it, I swear I'm going to go get my digital camera and post photos of it. Most of the time, I notice it in scenes where whiter colors are concentrated -- lighting reflections off plain white walls, overcast skies, etc. I may even pop it into my old DVD player and watch it again on my CRT. Although I am inclined to dismiss it due to the low-budget documentary source, I did notice it multiple times on the Sin City DVD. Can I get honest opinions from other owner viewers?

What DVD player are you using? How do you have it connected? After reading your post I popped in Sin City and do not see any of this. Please post more info.

For everyone that loves the Costco return policy and hates the fact that they cannot see any of these NEC units in person, the following may be of interest:

http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/view_release.php?id=13711

Thanks,
Bob Doseck
Plasma Concepts

For everyone that loves the Costco return policy and hates the fact that they cannot see any of these NEC units in person, the following may be of interest:

http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/view_release.php?id=13711

Thanks,
Bob Doseck
Plasma Concepts

Bob: Kudos for adopting such a policy. I'm impressed and hope that this translates into increased sales as, with this policy, you certainly deserve it!

Argghh!!

UPS was supposed to deliver my 50xr5 yesterday. When I track the package online, it says its still "out for delivery" since yesterday!!! Called the local distribution center, and they have no idea where it is. I smell trouble.

I took the entire day off yesterday to ensure that I would be home when it arrived.

Frustrating

Update,
UPS found it and its sitting in my living room, phew

This afternoon I watched a documentary about Wal-M*. I cannot speak of the quality of the source material, but there was banding in scenes throughout on my 50XR5. I have less than 10 hours on the panel and no calibration. However, I don't think break-in or calibration will reduce banding. Every time I see it, I swear I'm going to go get my digital camera and post photos of it. Most of the time, I notice it in scenes where whiter colors are concentrated -- lighting reflections off plain white walls, overcast skies, etc. I may even pop it into my old DVD player and watch it again on my CRT. Although I am inclined to dismiss it due to the low-budget documentary source, I did notice it multiple times on the Sin City DVD. Can I get honest opinions from other owner viewers?

I have noticed some banding since you mentioned that you were seeing it a few days ago. It only happens for me when watching a black scene with a bright light source in the background. Like on the Grammy's last night when a musician would be on stage and they would have the camera facing him and there would be a spotlight behind him surrounded by darkness. The light 'halo' will have a step or two in it transitioning to dark. That is only scenario I see it. I don't see it during any bright scenes or even dark scenes without very bright lights, i.e. "Lost" had no banding.

Based on what I have been seeing you should be able to get rid of it for things like the white walls in the Wal-Mart documentary. Tony17 posted some settings a while ago where he was able to get the gray ramp from Avia pretty flat. I tried those settings, but they really screwed my colors up so I went back to relative default for color and just adjusted contrast and brightness. I still see a few bands in the gray ramp now towards the dark end. I didn't bother trying to adjust these out because I wasn't seeing any banding, but now I know I can see some on shows like "American Idol' when the conditions are right. I will probably try to adjust to get the gray ramp smoother when I have some time to see if I can get rid of them completely.

^^^^^ I am not noticing to much banding on my display. I must say that I have about 20 hours on it so far........

Ok, dumb question, are the ferrite cores for the power cord, or for video cables to the display, thanks.

Yah I want to say that I do see some banding every once in a while but what I have seen is that the more you watch the tv teh less you see. AS my hrs go up towards 100 the banding is basically gone and is it shows up it is only when I first turn it on.

Ok, dumb question, are the ferrite cores for the power cord, or for video cables to the display, thanks.

One goes on each end of the power cord.

One goes on each end of the power cord.


What do they do? Maybe it's about time I contact NEC about them not including them in my TV's box.

What do they do? Maybe it's about time I contact NEC about them not including them in my TV's box.

They help with RF emission insulation. They're probably required for the FCC Class B rating. I doubt they'd make any difference for most. If you don't have any noticeable interference, I wouldn't worry about it personally.

During my continued evaluation of PQ, I popped in Hellboy last night -- plenty of darkness, so I thought it'd be fitting.

Overall, the PQ was excellent. The blacks were nicely detailed, and all the motion was smooth. I noticed the banding in a very striking scene. It is about 50-55 minutes into the film, and Abe, Hellboy, and the Bureau are checking out the subway for demon eggs. Two green-yellow glow sticks were dropped into a water chamber. The scene tracks the glow sticks all the way down thru the water to the bottom. The entire time they were falling, they had three or so halos of banded light around them. I stopped again, and watched it frame by frame as I considered snapping a photo, but in each frame it was less apparent then when playing at normal speed.

I will snap some photos as I continue checking out different DVD's, then I'll post them. What is the most popular way to post photos again?

cpcat, my settings are bone stock, no calibration yet. I am pretty sure I have some centering to do as well. I may watch the THX optimizer this evening. I am still educating myself on basic calibration -- what the order of changes is, which settings correspond with which calibration goals, and I don't want to leave patterns up for lengths of time while I'm futzing around. I'll probably try a professional in a month or two.


Thanks!

cpcat, my settings are bone stock, no calibration yet. I am pretty sure I have some centering to do as well. I may watch the THX optimizer this evening. I am still educating myself on basic calibration -- what the order of changes is, which settings correspond with which calibration goals, and I don't want to leave patterns up for lengths of time while I'm futzing around. I'll probably try a professional in a month or two.


Thanks!

Back the contrast down to 48 (default is 52) and up the brightness to 36(defualt is 32) and see if that helps. If you're using component, pedestal should be at 7.5. If HDMI, pedestal should be at zero. HDMI in the setup menu should be set to high. Low tone should be auto.

If you overcontrast this panel, it will show artifacting for sure and will be even more unforgiving if the source isn't great. That's true with any pdp though.

Not to side track anyone, but I've had an interesting thought. Most of us who are buying now will keep the current set as our primary for say 5 yrs or so on average. At that point, it's likely we'll be looking at a totally new technology: SED. NEC SED has a nice ring to it. Let's see. 1 inch thick with say 65 inches diagonal. 100,000:1 contrast ratio. Blacks as black as deep space. Native rate support. I wonder?

Well, I've been following this thread since day one, and I purchased my 50xr5 after page 4 or so.

Here's a link to my setup:

GO! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6972968#post6972968)

I'm in love with this panel, and wouldn't think of trading it for any other. That being said, I've noticed a couple of issues that I wanted to chime in on. First, I've been noticing a phenomenon where people's skin will look like a topographical map (for lack of better way to put it). This is with both SD and HD. It's hit and miss, but seems more likely to occur during fast movement. Is this referred to as false contouring? Banding? I'm not sure.

Another thing I notice is areas of pixellation during HD broadcasts, again most likely to happen during fast movement. Does anybody w/ experience know if this is inherrent in the HD broadcast? I think it may be, but I'd like to know for sure.

Thanks for any responses.

Glad to hear everyone is enjoying their new NECs.


I posted a few pages back about this very thing although I think that Zouyun describes this better than I did. It appears to me in both HD and SD and especially when the camera scene pans off of somebody I could tell this last night at the grammys as they would pan up the aisle of the audience you could see this slight motion blur on peoples faces, as soon as the pan stops the image clears up again. I have only been able to watch one dvd, happened to be U571 but I don't notice it there. I was only able to watch a few scenes for about 20 minutes but I think I would have noticed it by then. BTW Zouyun, that is a great setup you have I plan on doing something similar as you with regards to inwall speakers. I'm looking at Triads currently. What are yours? I'm still enjoying this PDP HD sports look awesome!

I posted a few pages back about this very thing although I think that Zouyun describes this better than I did. It appears to me in both HD and SD and especially when the camera scene pans off of somebody I could tell this last night at the grammys as they would pan up the aisle of the audience you could see this slight motion blur on peoples faces, as soon as the pan stops the image clears up again. I have only been able to watch one dvd, happened to be U571 but I don't notice it there. I was only able to watch a few scenes for about 20 minutes but I think I would have noticed it by then. BTW Zouyun, that is a great setup you have I plan on doing something similar as you with regards to inwall speakers. I'm looking at Triads currently. What are yours? I'm still enjoying this PDP HD sports look awesome!

Pixellation during fast movement is almost always source related if you are dealing with pdp technology. PDP has the fastest response time of any current digital display. LCD is a different story, but has other advantages over pdp such as less dithering noise.

I see this more commonly with 1080i sources compared to 720p. The Grammy's would be a likely example. CBS football would be another.

I've got Speco speakers. They get the job done, and I've got them in 4 other zones throughout the house, but I think the HT ones are going to be switched out in a year or two to 8"ers.

I'm going to watch Cindarella Man tonight so there should be plenty of content to check for the false contouring (if we can call it such). I've begun to refer to it as the "topo-skin effect" :)

Are any of these Panasonic Plasmas out yet?

cpcat said: Incidentally, color and tint controls are *disabled* on the 50XR5 when feeding the panel native rate so color and tint will need to be adjusted via the HDP. Cinema mode is also fixed to "On" and can't be adjusted and the only available picture settings are "normal" and "default".

What is the deal with this? Isn't this a rather large imposition? What is the downside of this in your view so far? You basically cannot modify the color settings if you use an external scaler? Or am I misreading you? Is this common amongst high end plasma displays? Does the Fujitsu do this too?

Also in an early post you said you removed your Lumagen scaler from the mix and the NEC PQ got better. What is up with that? Is that because the built in scaler is really better than a $1k+ seperate scaler?

What if I wanted to mate the NEC HVQ scaler to this NEC plasma with a native feed over HDMI? That should produce a better PQ right?