hooked up my panny s77 dvd player to the XR5 and it looks horrible upconverting to 1080i the same player looks awesome on my panny 42px50u upconverting to 720p. when i output 480p to the NEC it looks very good. is the scaler in the nec THAT much better than the upconversion from the player (S77)? It looks like I blew $230 on a second S77 just to play it at 480p OUCH!!!

Eric

hooked up my panny s77 dvd player to the XR5 and it looks horrible upconverting to 1080i the same player looks awesome on my panny 42px50u upconverting to 720p. when i output 480p to the NEC it looks very good. is the scaler in the nec THAT much better than the upconversion from the player (S77)? It looks like I blew $230 on a second S77 just to play it at 480p OUCH!!!

Eric

Please clarify. Are you saying that you used the 720p output on the Panny S77 to drive your 42-inch Panny plasma and got excellent results? Then you used the 1080i output on the Panny S77 (same player) to drive your NEC and got poor results? If this is correct, then did you try driving the NEC with the 720p setting, also? Otherwise, no conclusion can be made. The Panny S77 uses the Faroudja chip which is known to cause a phenomenon called "macroblock enhancement" (MBE, in HT-speak), especially when driving plasma tvs. Oddly, from what I have read, it is particularly a problem with Panasonic plasmas, even though the products are of the same brand. So it is interesting to know you had no problems with driving your Panny plasma, despite the frequent reports to the contrary. You might want to do some reading on the upscaling DVD forum to learn whether what you are seeing on the NEC is MBE. If so, it's not surprising, and the NEC cannot be faulted for it (but try 720p, as per above). Finally, if the S77 can output 480i over HDMI or a DVI output (i.e., in the digital domain), that would be a good way to drive the NEC and avoid the upscaling Faroudja chip in the S77.

What is the source of your SD signal? It could be that your STB is deinterlacing and scaling the signal BEFORE the NEC sees it. Thus you are really seeing a deficiency in the built-in scaler of your STB. When I first got my 50XR5, I was receiving an all-SD signal via Directv. About two weeks ago, I switched to DISH for HD and SD service. The HD is fabulous, but SD via the DISH STB is actually inferior to SD via my old DTV STB. This is where I discovered that the DISH STB has its own scaler/deinterlacer, and there is no way to bypass it :mad: The real clue to this problem is the comparison between SD via my outdoor antenna and SD via the DISH STB. The antenna just blows away the STB, which is evidence of the superiority of the scaler in the NEC. I am going to cancel my local channel service on DISH and just use my antenna from now on. (HD is amazing via the antenna as well.) These little thoughtless flaws in the design of the hardware are drowned out by the hype. Even an expensive external scaler and/or a 1080p-capable display will play second fiddle to the built-in scaler in the DISH STB.

I was originally disappointed in the SD picture from my DISH 942 receiver, and now I'm really bummed that I can't even get a clean 480i signal that my NEC can work with. Unfortunately I live in a rural area, so an off-air HD signal isn't an option. So I called DISH and BEE-ACHHED. I was told that they are developing a new receiver (622) that further compresses their signals to make room for the VOOM HD channels, and supposedly the affiliate HD networks later this year. If you choose to believe that, then there's good news and bad. The good news is you'll get more HD choices, the bad news is it'll cost more, be further compressed and yeah, you'll need to buy a new receiver and possibly a new dish.

Good to see the new NEC owners piling on this thread. And, Chris, my man, you need to channel all that profit and positive feedback into a NEC franchise :D :D

I just blew past 220hrs on my 50XR5A and the PQ continues to dazzle me, my neighbors, my dogs, even my daughter - "hey dad, that TV is smokin, can I get one?" :eek:

Good to see the new NEC owners piling on this thread. And, Chris, my man, you need to channel all that profit and positive feedback into a NEC franchise :D :D

I just blew past 220hrs on my 50XR5A and the PQ continues to dazzle me, my neighbors, my dogs, even my daughter - "hey dad, that TV is smokin, can I get one?" :eek:

I guess i'm the only one who has noticed that Cleveland Plasma does not sell the Pioneer 5060 but does sell the NEC 50XR5 and 42XR4. A while back, when there was talk about the comparision between the Pioneer 5060 and NEC 50XR5, Chris of Cleveland Plasma trashed the Pioneer for having motion blur.....something that no professional reviewer or owner had ever mentioned...ever. I'm sure the NEC is an awesome plasma, but when i called him out on his statement he has been noticably silent. To purposely alarm a potential Pioneer owner of a non existent problem so that they will in turn buy the NEC is shameful. Looks like it worked.....many new NEC owners buying their sets from Cleveland Plasma and gloating. Congrats.

I was originally disappointed in the SD picture from my DISH 942 receiver, and now I'm really bummed that I can't even get a clean 480i signal that my NEC can work with. Unfortunately I live in a rural area, so an off-air HD signal isn't an option. So I called DISH and BEE-ACHHED. I was told that they are developing a new receiver (622) that further compresses their signals to make room for the VOOM HD channels, and supposedly the affiliate HD networks later this year. If you choose to believe that, then there's good news and bad. The good news is you'll get more HD choices, the bad news is it'll cost more, be further compressed and yeah, you'll need to buy a new receiver and possibly a new dish.

The 622 is already shipping. It's basically just a 942 that can decode MPEG4. Of course, there are problems with that codec, and Dish is currently only placing an MPEG4 header on the new HD feeds, but compressing them with old MPEG2 (a subject of great bitching over on SatelliteGuys).

Have you tried setting your 942's screen size to 4X3#2 and output to 480i? That setting should eliminate all internal picture scaling (press Help in the HDTV setup menu). Once you do that, toggle the 942 screen mode to "Normal" (instead of stretch, zoom, etc.) and you will get a clean, unprocessed 4x3 SD image passed to your monitor. You can then use NEC's Stadium mode to stretch it to fill the screen. This is how I feed SD to my Elite PRO-610HD (RPTV), and the SD picture looks 10X better than when the 942 screen size is set to 16x9.

The downside, of course, is that you have to go back and change the screen to 16x9 and the output to 720p (or whatever) when you watch HD, but a remote that records macros can take the pain out of that.

Finally, if the S77 can output 480i over HDMI or a DVI output (i.e., in the digital domain), that would be a good way to drive the NEC and avoid the upscaling Faroudja chip in the S77.

Faroudja is known for the quality of it's deinterlacer. I'd say try it both ways and see which looks better. 480p output from the S77 will use the Faroudja deinterlacer and the NEC will do the rest.

I guess i'm the only one who has noticed that Cleveland Plasma does not sell the Pioneer 5060 but does sell the NEC 50XR5 and 42XR4. A while back, when there was talk about the comparision between the Pioneer 5060 and NEC 50XR5, Chris of Cleveland Plasma trashed the Pioneer for having motion blur.....something that no professional reviewer or owner had ever mentioned...ever.

All right here we go. I never trashed Pioneer, lipcrkr. I just made a comment about the Pioneer and this is my opinion and the way I feel. I will further more state that I bash no panels. They all look good to me it is just were they fall in my "scale of quality".

Here is what I said and it started on page 29-31:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well I am a little tired of everyone braging about there NEC. As some may know my Pioneer 5040HD was a year young and out of style. I have access to just about every plasma available and I chose the best unit in my eyes at this time.

My NEC PX-50XR5

PIC 1 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0804.JPG)

PIC 2 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0805.JPG)

PIC 3 HERE (http://www.clevelandplasma.com/cms_files/Image/Hosting/DSCF0808.JPG)

I have seen these at the trade shows however to see in a home enviroment is quite different. There is no dought that the whole 10 mins now that I have used it I have seen enough. Pioneer and Panasonic have something to be concerned about......

I am not seeing any clay face......

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


First Pioneer makes a great product. This is my personal opinion. No offense to anyone and take it for what it is worth.

First off I have a Adelphia DVR with great HD programs recorded on it and I have seen these programs many times as I have shown the new guys HD on a Pioneer PDP-5040HD plasma. There were some drawbacks to the Pioneer but I thought how can anything be any better? In one years time I never touched a setting. (NOTE: To view a plasma in any enviroment besides a home is "different". I thought I had the king of the hill.)

Pioneer has a "Fast motion blur" that the NEC does not have. It takes a while to see it on the Pioneer but it is there. I guess a good scaler will take care of this but why pay the extra costs? I would put the 5040 up against the 5060 as I have had a little time to view these. Nothing Pioneer did , as far as improvements, was that noticeable to see in my eyes. Yes there were improvements in 2 generations but no leaps and bounds of improvements.

I have 3 hours of viewing on my new NEC and here is what I see. Everything is about 15% crisper on the NEC and the NEC still has the Pioneer color pop. Black levels are there. SD content is about 300% better than the Pioneer. (That is not a typo). It got to the point were I would only watch 480i and better because the SD content was so bad on the Pioneer. DVD content is off of a 3 year old progressive scan JVC DVD player. (I do not like any of the upscaling DVD players, the functions are to slow). Pioneer did a great job upscaling but the NEC does better. Cleaner, crisper, and color explosion. Need I say more.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ahhhhh...no motion blur. I would catch this alot during the football games on the Pioneer. NONE on the NEC. What a panel :D

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Pioneer has motion blur? Could you elaborate? You are basically telling people that a highly respected and among the most expensive plasmas out there are doing something more common with 32" LCD's? This is a pretty bold statement and would love to hear from Pioneer owners on this.


Scroll back a page or two and you will see how I compared my Pioneer PDP-5040HD to the new NEC. I am, or was a Pioneer owner for 18 months. I also owned a Pioneer PDP-5030HD and noticed the same problem. I did state Pioneer makes an excellent panel, as they do. I am NOT bashing Pioneer in any way or form. I owned 2 of there products for quite some time. I did state this was my opinion. This may be a bold statement but I know what I see, during fast action scenes, for one slit second, the screen goes blurry, then cleans up. (not all the time) Especially during sports in HD. I have heard others complain about this from time to time in the forum. The person must have a keen eye as it only happens for a split second. If you like I can demonstrate in person.

Old Pioneer 5030HD setup HERE (http://www.highdefforum.com/gallery/data/501/50_pioneer_2.JPG)
Old Pioneer 5040HD setup HERE (http://www.highdefforum.com/gallery/data/501/DSCF0350.JPG)


OK I hope this is straight now. I did not bash Pioneer. I made a comment based on my opinion.

I guess i'm the only one who has noticed that Cleveland Plasma does not sell the Pioneer 5060 but does sell the NEC 50XR5 and 42XR4. A while back, when there was talk about the comparision between the Pioneer 5060 and NEC 50XR5, Chris of Cleveland Plasma trashed the Pioneer for having motion blur.....something that no professional reviewer or owner had ever mentioned...ever. I'm sure the NEC is an awesome plasma, but when i called him out on his statement he has been noticably silent. To purposely alarm a potential Pioneer owner of a non existent problem so that they will in turn buy the NEC is shameful. Looks like it worked.....many new NEC owners buying their sets from Cleveland Plasma and gloating. Congrats.


Did you get rid of that SXRD yet? I suggest you compare the NEC with the Pioneer. They are both excellent sets but my eyes prefer the NEC. I don't see any problem with Chris voicing his opinion. He personally owns these TV's and enjoys them like the rest of us.

LOL :) I went to make my purchase today for the Fujitsu, and guess what, the chain that was carrying it and was going to give me a nice discount is out of stock and no longer carrying Fujitsu, because its too high end for their customers. They are falling back on the Pio Elites. Of course they didn't have the NEC either, bastads :)

I made my decision to purchase the Fujitsu also. I ended up paying about 25% more for it with the table stand.

I sure would have liked to see the NEC. less money; plus two HDMI inputs.

BTW, I sent you a PM on your purchase.

I made my decision to purchase the Fujitsu also. I ended up paying about 25% more for it with the table stand.

I sure would have liked to see the NEC. less money; plus two HDMI inputs.

BTW, I sent you a PM on your purchase.

Hopefully, not to break any rules, but are you saying you were able to get the new 50" Fujitsu for under 5 big ones?? If so, congrats on a great deal...that's pretty good!

Please clarify. Are you saying that you used the 720p output on the Panny S77 to drive your 42-inch Panny plasma and got excellent results? Then you used the 1080i output on the Panny S77 (same player) to drive your NEC and got poor results? If this is correct, then did you try driving the NEC with the 720p setting, also? Otherwise, no conclusion can be made. The Panny S77 uses the Faroudja chip which is known to cause a phenomenon called "macroblock enhancement" (MBE, in HT-speak), especially when driving plasma tvs. Oddly, from what I have read, it is particularly a problem with Panasonic plasmas, even though the products are of the same brand. So it is interesting to know you had no problems with driving your Panny plasma, despite the frequent reports to the contrary. You might want to do some reading on the upscaling DVD forum to learn whether what you are seeing on the NEC is MBE. If so, it's not surprising, and the NEC cannot be faulted for it (but try 720p, as per above). Finally, if the S77 can output 480i over HDMI or a DVI output (i.e., in the digital domain), that would be a good way to drive the NEC and avoid the upscaling Faroudja chip in the S77.

tried outputting @ 720p and it still looks horrible. The S77 outputs at 480p NOT 480i so I guess the NEC will have to re-interlace everything. With that said, the 480p output looks very good.

Yes, it is odd that the same player looks great on a Panny plasma considering its posted difficulty with the faroudja chip.

The last thing I need to do is plug in my 6-year-old Panny DVD player which most certainly outputs at 480i to see how removing the de-interlacing step affects PQ. I'll probably keep the S77 with the unit anyway because of it's added features; the old dvd player does really nothing more than play dvds.

Eric

tried outputting @ 720p and it still looks horrible. The S77 outputs at 480p NOT 480i so I guess the NEC will have to re-interlace everything. With that said, the 480p output looks very good.


Eric

If you feed the panel 480p it will then only need to scale to 768p. No deinterlacing required. If the Faroudja deinterlacer is superior to the NEC (which is plausible given the reputation of the Faroudja deinterlacer) this may be the best way to do it anyway.

tony17 : I sent you a PM.

If you feed the panel 480p it will then only need to scale to 768p. No deinterlacing required. If the Faroudja deinterlacer is superior to the NEC (which is plausible given the reputation of the Faroudja deinterlacer) this may be the best way to do it anyway.

But doesn't the XR5 only have native support for 1080i ? Thus the signal would need to be re-interlaced, no?

Eric

But doesn't the XR5 only have native support for 1080i ? Thus the signal would need to be re-interlaced, no?

Eric

The XR5 and digital displays in general are progressive by nature. Every signal is converted to the native resolution of the display which in this case is 1365 x 768 progressive or 1365 x 768p for short. A 640 x 480p signal will only need to be scaled to 1365 x 768p and will not require deinterlacing. A 1920 x 1080i signal will need to be deinterlaced first, either to 1920 x 1080p (best) or some sets will deinterlace to 1920 x 540p (some loss of vertical resolution occurs). The signal will then need to be scaled to 1365 x 768p before it's displayed.

A native progressive signal (i.e. 720p) requires only scaling and no deinterlacing. This is why 720p often looks better on a digital display especially if the internal scaler doesn't do a good job of deinterlacing a 1080i signal.

Since I use HDMI I like to set pedestal to zero. Where can I set the pedestal to zero. I am able to set everything according to this tread. But I can't find the input for the pedestal. Please help if you know where can I find this input?

Thanks in advance!

Since I use HDMI I like to set pedestal to zero. Where can I set the pedestal to zero. I am able to set everything according to this tread. But I can't find the input for the pedestal. Please help if you know where can I find this input?

Thanks in advance!

It's in the picture menu. It's labeled "setup level" and can be 0,3.5 or 7. The manual refers to it as pedestal so I guess that's a little confusing. HDMI should be set to "high" in the setup menu if you are using a video level input.

The XR5 and digital displays in general are progressive by nature. Every signal is converted to the native resolution of the display which in this case is 1365 x 768 progressive or 1365 x 768p for short. A 640 x 480p signal will only need to be scaled to 1365 x 768p and will not require deinterlacing. A 1920 x 1080i signal will need to be deinterlaced first, either to 1920 x 1080p (best) or some sets will deinterlace to 1920 x 540p (some loss of vertical resolution occurs). The signal will then need to be scaled to 1365 x 768p before it's displayed.

A native progressive signal (i.e. 720p) requires only scaling and no deinterlacing. This is why 720p often looks better on a digital display especially if the internal scaler doesn't do a good job of deinterlacing a 1080i signal.

thanks for the explanation! So, if my Directv HD-Tivo can output 1080i AND 720p what should I set it's output to?

Eric

thanks for the explanation! So, if my Directv HD-Tivo can output 1080i AND 720p what should I set it's output to?

Eric

From what I can tell, the new NEC's employ motion adaptive deinterlacing for 1080i video sources as well as 3:2 pulldown detection for 1080i film sources which should be about the best available right now. "Cinema" mode should be on if you want 3:2 pulldown detection for 1080i film sources. 720p should be no problem. Therefore, feed native source signals to the display using passthru mode if possible.

The only exception might be what started this conversation: the Faroudja deinterlacer for 480i. In that case it sounds like 480p is your best choice if you want to use HDMI input.

From what I can tell, the new NEC's employ motion adaptive deinterlacing for 1080i video sources as well as 3:2 pulldown detection for 1080i film sources which should be about the best available right now. "Cinema" mode should be on if you want 3:2 pulldown detection for 1080i film sources. 720p should be no problem. Therefore, feed native source signals to the display using passthru mode if possible.

The only exception might be what started this conversation: the Faroudja deinterlacer for 480i. In that case it sounds like 480p is your best choice if you want to use HDMI input.

Wow, that's a little bit above my head (my problem, not yours)!

So when you say "feed native source signals to the display using passthru mode" I'm assuming you mean if FOX Sports is using 720p to pass the signal to the NEC @720p or if the other networks use 1080i as their hidef signal to pass it to the NEC @ 1080i, right?

Eric (sorry for the newbie-ness) :confused:

Wow, that's a little bit above my head (my problem, not yours)!

So when you say "feed native source signals to the display using passthru mode" I'm assuming you mean if FOX Sports is using 720p to pass the signal to the NEC @720p or if the other networks use 1080i as their hidef signal to pass it to the NEC @ 1080i, right?

Eric (sorry for the newbie-ness) :confused:

You got it.

Noob. :) ;)

If you feed the panel 480p it will then only need to scale to 768p. No deinterlacing required. If the Faroudja deinterlacer is superior to the NEC (which is plausible given the reputation of the Faroudja deinterlacer) this may be the best way to do it anyway.

Unfortunately, the Faroudja deinterlacer is what introduces MBE, but maybe he is not seeing MBE. Anyway, he seems happier with 480p than with higher output resolutions. BTW, as far as I know a 1080i upscaled image has been deinterlaced prior to upscaling, even though it ends up in "i" mode. So using 1080i output does not bypass the deinterlacer. Only outputting 480i over a digital connection will really bypass the deinterlacer/scaler of the component feeding the tv, be that an STB or an upscaling DVD player. Cpcat, you probably know this.

Personally, I'd rather have the NEC doing the deinterlacing than a $200 DVD player, Faroudja or no Faroudja, or a give-away STB.

Peters4n6: Does the Directv HD STB offer the possibility of bypassing its internal scaler entirely, as per my comment above? If so, I might consider switching from DISH to DTV. Unfortunately, DISH has more and better HD content, however.

Peters4n6: Does the Directv HD STB offer the possibility of bypassing its internal scaler entirely, as per my comment above? If so, I might consider switching from DISH to DTV. Unfortunately, DISH has more and better HD content, however.

Sorry, I don't know.

I was originally disappointed in the SD picture from my DISH 942 receiver, and now I'm really bummed that I can't even get a clean 480i signal that my NEC can work with. Unfortunately I live in a rural area, so an off-air HD signal isn't an option. So I called DISH and BEE-ACHHED. I was told that they are developing a new receiver (622) that further compresses their signals to make room for the VOOM HD channels, and supposedly the affiliate HD networks later this year. If you choose to believe that, then there's good news and bad. The good news is you'll get more HD choices, the bad news is it'll cost more, be further compressed and yeah, you'll need to buy a new receiver and possibly a new dish.

I deliberately delayed my installation until the new generation DISH receivers were available. Because the 622 was still not ready for sale on Feb 1, as previously promised, I finally opted for the zip211, which is basically a 622 with only one tuner and no DVR built in. DISH gave me a separate STB (new model 301) for my SD-only Sony XBR that now lives in my basement. My observations are based on using the 211 with my NEC 50XR5. As I understand it, the scaler in the 211/622 IS a big upgrade over the 942 and earlier DISH STBs, especially with HD signals, but it is still not up to the level of the NEC for deinterlacing and upscaling SD signals. Sorry for the off-topic remarks. Sad fact is that once one has become used to HD on the NEC (even though as you say the HD is watered down, too), it is just hard to watch SD, no matter how well done.

Here's something weird that I noticed recently. I am pretty sure it is from the source, but wanted to check to see if anyone else is seeing it.

When watching a 720p HD channel such as FOX, ABC, or ESPN I will occasionally loose 3/4 of the top row of pixels from left to right with the first 1.5 lit pixels being white. A graphical representation would look something like this:

__________________________________**RGBRGBRGBRGBRGB
RGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGB...

Where the ___ = black pixles, * = white, and RGB = correct picture.

It only happens maybe 1/3 of the time, but when it does it is kind of annoying because the "stuck" pixels show up bright against a dark background. It also seems to go away when a commercial comes on, but the input from the STB is still 720p.

Anyone else see anything like this? Does not happen with any other source or signals. I think I may try to swap the box, but I wanted to see others thoughts first. (box is SA 3250HD, provider is Time Warner, output is component pass through)

Hay, Chris, have you to talked with anyone or reviewed -"what would be the _best_ "dvd player that would work best with the NEC xr5? I want to up grade(current Pan RP82-works great) my DVD player to a univeral to Play SACD&movies. Granted there are 1000s out there. But any observation of a great player at different price points. I do not know if your firm does audio, but you got to have a friend who you would trust to give his views..
db
Post: Yes CPCAT- i have been waiting at least to see what the spec's will be on the HD/BR players. I was told because the scanner for HD/BR were differnt than CD scanners. that a piece of EQ that could be: one -universal- to play DVD formates and SACD formates would have to have 2 scaners and the system would look like the Denon 5806 AV(think very big). So i might just skip the HD/BR debate for next 5yrs and get a PIo79avi or the 3910.& be done with it and enjoy..

Well, I got my stand today for my 50XM5A. It really finishes off the set wonderfully. It looks great even in our temporary apartment setup. I'm looking forward to getting this thing in our bedroom at our new home. Thanks again Chris.

Mark

Here's something weird that I noticed recently. I am pretty sure it is from the source, but wanted to check to see if anyone else is seeing it.

When watching a 720p HD channel such as FOX, ABC, or ESPN I will occasionally loose 3/4 of the top row of pixels from left to right with the first 1.5 lit pixels being white. A graphical representation would look something like this:

__________________________________**RGBRGBRGBRGBRGB
RGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGBRGB...

Where the ___ = black pixles, * = white, and RGB = correct picture.

It only happens maybe 1/3 of the time, but when it does it is kind of annoying because the "stuck" pixels show up bright against a dark background. It also seems to go away when a commercial comes on, but the input from the STB is still 720p.

Anyone else see anything like this? Does not happen with any other source or signals. I think I may try to swap the box, but I wanted to see others thoughts first. (box is SA 3250HD, provider is Time Warner, output is component pass through)

I've heard of this issue. Are you using component to feed your display? If so, I'm confident that it is the signal source (bad STB or weak signal). You can adjust the vertical position of your display to eliminate this if you have the benefit of minor overscan. I'm virtually certain that there is nothing mechanically wrong with your panel. (As an aside, the STB that you are using happens to be the one that was involved in the issue that I'm aware of. That could be coincidental, but this may be more than a coincidence.)

If you have the option to change the type of feed that you are inputting into the panel, try HDMI or DVI and see if this goes away. I'll lay odds that it does.

Peters4n6: Does the Directv HD STB offer the possibility of bypassing its internal scaler entirely, as per my comment above? If so, I might consider switching from DISH to DTV. Unfortunately, DISH has more and better HD content, however.

No the HR10-250 does NOT have native passthrough. This is my only complaint with the STB, albeit a HUGE one in my opinion. You can set it up to toggle through the resolutions (480i, 720p, 1080i) with just the up arrow however. Let me know if you need help finding it, I think it is under Video of the Settings screen.

Hay, Chris, have to talked with anyone or reviewed -"what would be the _best_ "dvd player that would work best with the NEC xr5? I want to up grade(current Pan RP82-work great) my DVD player to a univeral to Play SACD&movies. Grant there are 1000 out there. But any observation of a great player at different price points. I do not know if your firm does audio, but you got to have a friend who you would trust to give his views..
db

I'd almost guarantee the new Blue Ray players will do SACD. Just a thought.

No the HR10-250 does NOT have native passthrough. This is my only complaint with the STB, albeit a HUGE one in my opinion. You can set it up to toggle through the resolutions (480i, 720p, 1080i) with just the up arrow however. Let me know if you need help finding it, I think it is under Video of the Settings screen.

That's a real design oversight IMO. I have the H10 as well as the Hughes HTL-HD (older and made by LG, the one that I use) and they both have native/passthru capability. Of course, they don't have DVR capability like the HR10-250.

I've heard of this issue. Are you using component to feed your display? If so, I'm confident that it is the signal source (bad STB or weak signal). You can adjust the vertical position of your display to eliminate this if you have the benefit of minor overscan. I'm virtually certain that there is nothing mechanically wrong with your panel. (As an aside, the STB that you are using happens to be the one that was involved in the issue that I'm aware of. That could be coincidental, but this may be more than a coincidence.)

If you have the option to change the type of feed that you are inputting into the panel, try HDMI or DVI and see if this goes away. I'll lay odds that it does.

The box only has component output so I can't try another input, but thanks for the overscan tip. I was able to offset the verticle by two lines and move it off the screen, so that is great. I will probably upgrade to DVR someday so I will have to trade the box in then so I will probably just keep this one with the work around till then.

The box only has component output so I can't try another input, but thanks for the overscan tip. I was able to offset the verticle by two lines and move it off the screen, so that is great. I will probably upgrade to DVR someday so I will have to trade the box in then so I will probably just keep this one with the work around till then.

Glad to hear that the vertical adjustment worked for you. :)

watching the olympics on my xr5 with my source being the DirectTV HDTivo passing a 1080i OTA signal via HDMI. when one cycles through the "WIDE" button presses on the NEC remote it goes from "ANAMORPHIC" to "STADIUM" to "2.35:1" and back to "ANAMORPHIC" Anamorphic looks the best, but I thought anamorphic involved some stretching and is not the "best" image. Am I viewing this right? Should I be watching "ANAMORPHIC"? The other settings seem to chop off part of the picture. Don't have the same options on my Panny. On that unit all 720p and 1080i is displayed as "FULL" Is full the same as anamorphic? I think it is, but I'd appreciate some verification.

thanks

eric

watching the olympics on my xr5 with my source being the DirectTV HDTivo passing a 1080i OTA signal via HDMI. when one cycles through the "WIDE" button presses on the NEC remote it goes from "ANAMORPHIC" to "STADIUM" to "2.35:1" and back to "ANAMORPHIC" Anamorphic looks the best, but I thought anamorphic involved some stretching and is not the "best" image. Am I viewing this right? Should I be watching "ANAMORPHIC"? The other settings seem to chop off part of the picture. Don't have the same options on my Panny. On that unit all 720p and 1080i is displayed as "FULL" Is full the same as anamorphic? I think it is, but I'd appreciate some verification.

thanks

eric

Yep, you have it right. Anamorphic is the 'normal' mode for all 16:9 material. I got confused by that too, the manual is a little unclear about this. So anamorphic will not stretch the image at all for a 16:9 image, but will for a 4:3 image.

Re: Optional side-mount speakers for 50XR5

Performance wise they were slightly better than I expected. But, I still intend to use a surround sound system for movies and serials.
Aesthetic values of the speakers are of course subjective to taste so; I’ll post some pictures next week.

Note:
The speakers hide the wiring so well that all input and output terminals are inaccessible for wall mounted panels using these speakers. You will need to remove the panel from the wall to access the side terminals.

Randy

After a week with my new 50XR5 (thanks Cleveland Plasma!!!) I can confidently say that PQ is even better than I expected. SD is much better than my sony Bravia and HD is just unbefrikenlievable!

My only concern is volume of noise the fans make. I can easily hear them from my 12 foot viewing distance. This is in a relatively noisy NYC apartment. They don't seem to be temperature activated and start up as soon as the plasma is turned on. Is this normal?

Thanks in advance.

RE: Fan noise on 50XR5

If I put my ear close to the set, I can hear the fan(s), but they are not noticable from a few feet away. With the volume off and the house silent, I *might* be able to hear them from my normal viewing distance of 12ft, but I'd have to really listen for them. I suppose, though, that if the room temperature was higher, as it will be in the summer (in Phoenix), they might run faster and create more noise.

Well I just ordered my 50XR5A with the Swivel Stand from Chris at Cleveland Plasma (Sight Unseen! .. Huge Growth Point ....I live in SoCal)

I have seen all the other PDP's in this class and appreciate all the thoughtfull information in these forums which helped me make what I feel is an informed decision. I also did outside research and was surprised to find that NEC electronics were held in such high regard.

As Everyone said Chris was very helpful and I feel comfortable working with with.

I am sure I will have many questions... most of which have probably already been answered.

Now the countdown begins!.....

Well I just ordered my 50XR5A with the Swivel Stand from Chris at Cleveland Plasma (Sight Unseen! .. Huge Growth Point ....I live in SoCal)

I have seen all the other PDP's in this class and appreciate all the thoughtfull information in these forums which helped me make what I feel is an informed decision. I also did outside research and was surprised to find that NEC electronics were held in such high regard.

As Everyone said Chris was very helpful and I feel comfortable working with with.

I am sure I will have many questions... most of which have probably already been answered.

Now the countdown begins!.....

Just a matter of few days you will have the unit in your hand, until then it is hard to sleep :p Chris is the man!

Great info!

CPcat, I was hoping to see some of the HD/BR spec's some time soon. So I can makesome kind of a decision. (Wife would like less eq in her living room-so a single sacd/dvd player stays and the other eq goes to the closet}. As I was wandering around the hi-end av stores. One salesman told me that the SACD scanner is different from the HD/BR scanners. {I have learned that OUR AVS friends here have more knowledge and experience than the general AV trade so this is where I do my research} They told me the BOX would have to have two different scanners, so the box would be quite large. And not cheap ($1200 range is fine with me) but they said more like $2K above range for the next couple of years. So i am still waiting for the truth....I might just skip the HD/BR debate for the next 5yrs.... but then again i want the xr5 to really shine....
And SACD is not...

DCypher got 1:1 with the timings I'm using from NEC using the nvidia 6800 over HDMI/DVI if I"m not mistaken. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=622396&page=15&pp=30&highlight=nvidia
earlier in the thread and if you'll backtrack in the thread some you'll find the timings and the copy of the emails from NEC I posted as well.

Here are the timings again:
VTOT 788 HTOT 1526
VACT 768 HACT 1365
VSYN 4 HSYN 50
VFRN 4 HFRN 51

V freq. 60.00 Hz
H freq. 47.20 Hz

Make sure RGB select in setup menu is set to "auto"
Disable orbiting in PDP saver menu
Set image adjust values all to zero.
That's it. Double check signal info in the menu and it should read 1365 x 768 and memory 18. V-line and H-line patterns via the Lumagen test patterns are perfect one-pixel rows.

If you are feeding NR to the panel, the contrast will be limited in the SM. You may want to toggle "limit PC" to off in the SM. Instructions here: http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=148


Can you let me know where can I input the above spec in order to get the prefect 1:1 mapping for the XR5? Right now, I have very poor 4:3 PQ thru the HTPC via HDMI. But if I use HDMI staright to XR5 and the PQ is excellent. I check the MCE setting and it is correct so I suspect I need to set the Nvidia 6600GT card the setting you described above. Attach is the screen shot I have and I don't know what to do... Please help.

Thanks in advance.

After a week with my new 50XR5 (thanks Cleveland Plasma!!!) I can confidently say that PQ is even better than I expected. SD is much better than my sony Bravia and HD is just unbefrikenlievable!

My only concern is volume of noise the fans make. I can easily hear them from my 12 foot viewing distance. This is in a relatively noisy NYC apartment. They don't seem to be temperature activated and start up as soon as the plasma is turned on. Is this normal?

Thanks in advance.


That doesn't sound right. If the room is completely silent, I have to be within 3ft to barely hear the fans, and even then I have to really listen. Mine is wall mounted by the way. I would maybe have a tech check it out. Let us know how it turns out.

I have no fan loudness either. if i am looking for it or right next to the xr5 i hear a very light whisper . My comcast 6412box is twice/3 the loudness of the xr.
db

DAB: Is this with the sound off or on? How is you 50XR5 mounted?

Thanks

1. all eq off- then turn the xr5 on 10min- very very soft fan-1 ft away- 3 ft nothing
2. turned on comcast box (box even off has some quite fan noise) could hear the comcast box 2ft away. just back ground not anything bothersome.
3. wall mounted Omni-wishbone ucl-x.
4. xr5 is a monitor so it would not have any sound- 5.1 stereo provides sound

Can anyone confirm that the PX-ST2U desktop stand for the R5 does infact look like this?

http://www.nec.se/upload/bilder/produkter/Plasma/Nya%20modeller%2020051114/Plasma%20Display%20_2.jpg

if not, does anyone have a real picture link to it. One dealer is saying that the pictured stand is not the one.

That doesn't sound right. If the room is completely silent, I have to be within 3ft to barely hear the fans, and even then I have to really listen. Mine is wall mounted by the way. I would maybe have a tech check it out. Let us know how it turns out.

I second Tony17, I have a very quiet house and I do not hear anything unless I have to be so close, like 2 feets, in order to hear any fan noise.

After a week with my new 50XR5 (thanks Cleveland Plasma!!!) I can confidently say that PQ is even better than I expected. SD is much better than my sony Bravia and HD is just unbefrikenlievable!

My only concern is volume of noise the fans make. I can easily hear them from my 12 foot viewing distance. This is in a relatively noisy NYC apartment. They don't seem to be temperature activated and start up as soon as the plasma is turned on. Is this normal?

Thanks in advance.

Are you sure it's the fans you're hearing? My 50 is in the shop, due to a noise condition that "sounds" like what you're describing. Turns out that my display is making noise from the area of the power supply - the fans are pulling the noise out of the chassis, but not making any noise themselves. I'm still waiting for the results of the shop's troubleshooting, so can't pinpoint the source yet. But, try to see if you can hear the noise from the lower back of your display - maybe it's not the fans on yours either.

Dave

Can anyone confirm that the PX-ST2U desktop stand for the R5 does infact look like this?

http://www.nec.se/upload/bilder/produkter/Plasma/Nya%20modeller%2020051114/Plasma%20Display%20_2.jpg

if not, does anyone have a real picture link to it. One dealer is saying that the pictured stand is not the one.

That is what it looks like, except in the picture the bottom of the stand below the silver "lip" on the base looks silver as well, when it is actually a gloss black.

Can you let me know where can I input the above spec in order to get the prefect 1:1 mapping for the XR5? Right now, I have very poor 4:3 PQ thru the HTPC via HDMI. But if I use HDMI staright to XR5 and the PQ is excellent. I check the MCE setting and it is correct so I suspect I need to set the Nvidia 6600GT card the setting you described above. Attach is the screen shot I have and I don't know what to do... Please help.

Thanks in advance.


Here is a post from DCyper from earlier:
Hmmm... I am glad you got this to work! However, i tried these settings and the monitor won't sync... ugh.

Here are my actual powerstrip settings:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1365x768=1365,51,50,60,768,4,4,12,72149,33

Generic timing details for 1365x768:
HFP=51 HSW=50 HBP=60 kHz=47 VFP=4 VSW=4 VBP=12 Hz=60

VESA detailed timing details:
PClk=72149.00 H.Active=1365 H.Blank=161 H.Offset=35 HSW=50 V.Active=768 V.Blank=20 V.Offset=4 VSW=4

Linux modeline parameters:
"1365x768" 72.149 1365 1416 1466 1526 768 772 776 788 +hsync +vsync

What's interesting is that when i switch to this video mode, the panel sees it ok (shows 1365x768 memory 18), but no image will display. I tried putting it in standby, then taking it out of standby, but no luck. FYI - I'm doing this from a HTPC w/ an NVIDIA 6600GT DVI -> HDMI.

Who did you talk to to get these settings?

Thanks,
Jeff

He eventually figured out that these were correct, but he had a faulty cable. After that was replaced, everything worked fine.

PM him if you need to.

Attached a screen shot of my timings from the nvidia control panel... this should help!

Here's the important note:
Horizontal pixels:
Front-end active is 1368 pixels
back-end active: 1365 pixels

If you don't setup that correctly, it won't sync right!

Hope this helps,
Jeff

Oh yeah... here's a bit more information for you to make things perfect:

go into the NEC's menu and go to the image adjustment:
V-Position: 0
H-Position: +4
V-Height : 0
H-Width: 0

This moves the image 4 pixels to the right without any scaling (fills the entire screen).

I have been following this thread for some time. My question is "Should someone be a videophile like many of you folks here to buy and use a plasma?". Can't a layman like me go buy a good plasma (based on input from this forum) and just start using it without tinkering it too much? You guys scare the heck out of people like me....

Thanks.

I have been following this thread for some time. My question is "Should someone be a videophile like many of you folks here to buy and use a plasma?". Can't a layman like me go buy a good plasma (based on input from this forum) and just start using it without tinkering it too much? You guys scare the heck out of people like me....

Thanks.

LOL

Go out, get an NEC plasma, hook it up to your hi-def cable box / dvr and enjoy :)
My guess is, you'll really like what you see.

(just make sure you break it in properly...)

Jeff

DCypher says it right...

I am unfortunately not a videophile either but I am enjoying the XR5 with very little tweaking. I used the THX optimizer which took only 5 minutes and made an already good looking picture look better... enjoy...steve

I haven't touched a setting yet on my NEC PX-50XR5. Looks just fine to me.....

Hi Guys,

I thought this could be of benefit to UK, Australians or other PAL/50hz countries -


I have found that with 50hz material in PAL land (Australia) there is some judder with slow panning motions and with scrolling text -

I did a quick review of it in the australian DTV Forum - Here is the Link (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=31234&view=findpost&p=357675)

This may annoy some PQ fanatics (like me)... but for most people (even in 50hz PAL land) it would still be a great panel.

I don't think judder would be an issue with 60hz material... thus the US would be fine... lucky!

Cheers,

Marcelo

puppydg68,
Here is another picture of the stand. This picture is without the unit on it.

http://www.plasmaconcepts.com/images/acc_display_660.jpg

Thanks,
Bob Doseck
Plasma Concepts

If you are looking to save a little cash $$$ this Premier Universal stand fits all plasma's.
Street price is about $100 less than the NEC stand.

http://www.premiermounts.com/PartData/Images/large/PSD-TTS_B.jpg

The stand comes in Black, Silver, and Clear. Model: PSD-TTS

Does anyone (Chris?) know of an alternative to the NEC table-top stand that will raise the panel higher over the base, as compared to the NEC stand? I love the build quality and appearance of the NEC-branded stand, but I am interested in raising the panel about 4 to 6 inches higher, in order to provide clearance for a center-channel speaker. Wall mounting is not an option.

I may be turning into a videophile after 25 years as a purist audiophile. First I thought I would be happy forever with good quality R and L front channel speakers only (got a great deal on KEF9000ACE). Then I decided I was missing something with movies and absolutely had to have a subwoofer (just bought a used Revel B15). Now I hanker for a center channel. I suppose surround sound is only a few thousand bucks away.

While I have been tracking everyone's specialized settings I have yet to try to make any changes at all. I just can't get past the 'wow' factor of my 50XM5. I don't really know if any settings can compensate for many of the crappy feeds that we get. When I put on Discovery from my Dish or the local PBS from my antenna, the NEC just makes me want to watch the picture--almost regardless of the content. I have only scorn for the NBC Olympics feed. I get it in the evenings in HD from my Satellite and in HD from my Dish at setting 9232 in the mornings. Yes, I know it is snowing in Torino but even the ice skating has a poor signal compared to ESPN. Oh, if y'all really want to see pure fun try ESPN Basketball in HD. This is a perfect match for the NEC.

I've read most of this topic, but I still have a question.
I want to buy this set and am going to connect it to a HTPC which runs MCE.

Now, if I'm right, the HTPC itself scales the image.
Should I use the scaler of the NEC, or let my PC do the scaling?

What I don't understand is, when I set my pc to output 1365x768 , and I watch "normal" SD television, the HTPC will always scale this to 1365x768 and output it to the NEC(?)

Thanks in advance for the answers :)

IMarkoff, here is a link to the Premier stand were there are technical specs availible.

HERE (http://www.premiermounts.com/techSpecs.asp?ProductID=4969&PartID=1252)

I have a question about audio.

I'm going to be saving some money to purchase the 50xr5 very soon and won't have much to spend in regards to my home theater upon purchase. I will however upgrade down the line in regards to a component based home theater.

My question is this...

In the mean time (between the purchase of the 50xr5 and my home theater,) is there a way I can hook up a stereo sound system? Does this TV have a 1/8" mini stereo audio out? Because I'm wondering if it's possible to hook the 50xr5 with a sound system like the Logitech z5300e.

Your help is much appreciated. Thanks!

It is usually best just to run all audio from your DVD Player, Cable Box, ect, ect to your audio products and all video to the plasma. To run it to the Plasma that has no speakers is doing no good. Note: the NEC's have built in amps for speakers.

Does anyone (Chris?) know of an alternative to the NEC table-top stand that will raise the panel higher over the base, as compared to the NEC stand? I love the build quality and appearance of the NEC-branded stand, but I am interested in raising the panel about 4 to 6 inches higher, in order to provide clearance for a center-channel speaker. Wall mounting is not an option.

I may be turning into a videophile after 25 years as a purist audiophile. First I thought I would be happy forever with good quality R and L front channel speakers only (got a great deal on KEF9000ACE). Then I decided I was missing something with movies and absolutely had to have a subwoofer (just bought a used Revel B15). Now I hanker for a center channel. I suppose surround sound is only a few thousand bucks away.
lmarkoff,
I currently am using the NEC tabletop stand and can't find a good place for my center channel. I didn't even think about getting a new stand! Thanks for pointing me in this direction. Anyway... After Chris's post about the Premier Mounts tabletop stand I was interested in finding out if it would raise my 42XR4 enough to fit my 7.5 inch high center channel underneath. After looking at the spec sheet I was a little unclear, but a call to Premier clarified that with an ~21 inch high screen there should be ~10 inches of clearance under the tv when at the highest point on the stand. I'm ordering one now and will post back to let you know how it works out.

I have a question about audio.

I'm going to be saving some money to purchase the 50xr5 very soon and won't have much to spend in regards to my home theater upon purchase. I will however upgrade down the line in regards to a component based home theater.

My question is this...

In the mean time (between the purchase of the 50xr5 and my home theater,) is there a way I can hook up a stereo sound system? Does this TV have a 1/8" mini stereo audio out? Because I'm wondering if it's possible to hook the 50xr5 with a sound system like the Logitech z5300e.

Your help is much appreciated. Thanks!

No audio outs, just speaker terminals for the internal amp. Don't have a spare set of speakers to use 'till you get your audio setup?

Dave

No audio outs, just speaker terminals for the internal amp. Don't have a spare set of speakers to use 'till you get your audio setup?

Dave

Nope. But here's the thing...

Since I'll be building my eventual home theater component-wise, I was wondering if I should spring for a quality set of satellite speakers that I would use temporarily for stereo input and then place within my component system when I secure some extra funds.

What would you suggest?

Nope. But here's the thing...

Since I'll be building my eventual home theater component-wise, I was wondering if I should spring for a quality set of satellite speakers that I would use temporarily for stereo input and then place within my component system when I secure some extra funds.

What would you suggest?

When I moved my 42 in to the bedroom, I was without a surround system as well. I picked up a pair of Harman Kardon HK3's to hook up directly to the monitor and it works great. I picked them up for like $65. And if you choose a Harman Kardon system down the road, you already have two of them. Also, the silver would probably match the XR5's bezel nicely. Here is a pic of them...

Attached a screen shot of my timings from the nvidia control panel... this should help!

Here's the important note:
Horizontal pixels:
Front-end active is 1368 pixels
back-end active: 1365 pixels

If you don't setup that correctly, it won't sync right!

Hope this helps,
Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks - above are done in 6600GT card in my HTPC. But what about below, where do I input that?

Here are my actual powerstrip settings:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1365x768=1365,51,50,60,768,4,4,12,72149,33

Generic timing details for 1365x768:
HFP=51 HSW=50 HBP=60 kHz=47 VFP=4 VSW=4 VBP=12 Hz=60

VESA detailed timing details:
PClk=72149.00 H.Active=1365 H.Blank=161 H.Offset=35 HSW=50 V.Active=768 V.Blank=20 V.Offset=4 VSW=4

Linux modeline parameters:
"1365x768" 72.149 1365 1416 1466 1526 768 772 776 788 +hsync +vsync

Thanks so much for all the help!

Just a throught Re: Image Retention.. I've got a Panny 42 SD that has image retention. I notice it every night in a totally dark room when I turn it off before I go to sleep. It lasts about 20-30 seconds. But, I never see it in regular viewing.

Funny thing is, I've seen it for the last 2 years to some degree when I shut off the set and never really thought about it.

I agree with the statement that all panels have it to some degree, it just depends on the viewing circumstances and probably also on how hard you're looking for it.

First I'd like to offer my thanks to all the members of this forum. Reading this forum made me buy the 50xr5 and that too from Chris. Thanks Chris for the smooth transaction. I almost decided to go with the Pany PHD8uk when I came across this forum. After reading your real time experiences, I made up my mind and now I am also a proud owner of the NEC product. The plasma is simply superb on the PX-ST2U swivel stand.

I was trying to do some research to set-up my hometheater and am trying to understand the HDMI/upconversion etc., when I came across the following...

Could you please comment if this is true?

.....There are only two types of TV's that are truly digital. These are based on either DLP (Digital Light Processing) or LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon, also called D-ILA or HD-ILA). EVERY other type of TV is actually analog. This includes Plasma, LCD, or CRT (standard rear-projection).
So, unless your TV is DLP or LCoS, component video and DVI/HDMI will look
identical. To take this a step further, DVI/HDMI might actually look worse to you,
since many TV's with DVI inputs disable all picture controls (e.g. brightness,
contrast, etc.) when using a DVI/HDMI signal.

...a call to Premier clarified that with an ~21 inch high screen there should be ~10 inches of clearance under the tv when at the highest point on the stand. I'm ordering one now and will post back to let you know how it works out.

I just did a little research too. As far as I can tell, the position of the plasma off the base of the stand on the Premier product(s) is determined by two 10mm Allen head set screws, one for each of the twin steel posts that constitute the upright support for the plasma. I am a little afraid that over time one or both of those bolts could loosen, for example due to vibration of the plasma, sending the plasma crashing down to the base of the stand. I am hoping to identify a more sturdy support. Incidentally, the stand referenced by Chris may or may not be adjustable, but apparently Premier makes another more expensive stand with longer twin upright posts that definitely is designed to allow the plasma position to be adjusted upward, but it too uses the set-screw method for fixing the plasma in the vertical plane, one screw per each of the two steel posts. Looks scary to me. Perhaps Chris has seen or used one of these stands and could comment on their safety with respect to holding the plasma in position. I hope my perception is incorrect, in fact.

I calibrated my 50XM4A using SpyderTV. Calibration was done on the DVI input using a Denon 2910 DVD player. The biggest change was reducing brightness from 32 to 10 and increasing contrast from 52 to 61. Color temp was changed to low. Color and tint were almost unchanged. All in all I feel it helped black level performance (reduced crush) pretty well.

I just did a little research too. As far as I can tell, the position of the plasma off the base of the stand on the Premier product(s) is determined by two 10mm Allen head set screws, one for each of the twin steel posts that constitute the upright support for the plasma. I am a little afraid that over time one or both of those bolts could loosen, for example due to vibration of the plasma, sending the plasma crashing down to the base of the stand. I am hoping to identify a more sturdy support. Incidentally, the stand referenced by Chris may or may not be adjustable, but apparently Premier makes another more expensive stand with longer twin upright posts that definitely is designed to allow the plasma position to be adjusted upward, but it too uses the set-screw method for fixing the plasma in the vertical plane, one screw per each of the two steel posts. Looks scary to me. Perhaps Chris has seen or used one of these stands and could comment on their safety with respect to holding the plasma in position. I hope my perception is incorrect, in fact.
The stand Chris posted is the only tabletop stand Premier Mounts sells that supports the NEC plasmas, and it is adjustable. They do however sell it in two styles (black & clear) which show up as two seperate models on their site. They also have a Universal Home Theater Stand (notice the lack of the word "tabletop") which is also height adjustable. These products are represented at the bottom this page:
[URL=http://www.premiermounts.com/productPartBrowse.asp?ProductID=5101[/URL]

Worrying about the plasma falling seems a little paranoid when considering the stand is rated for panels up to 61 inches and that their search engine specifically points you to the PSD-TTS model when chosing a new NEC display. I may be the fool I guess. We'll find out. ;)

I'm wondering if I can get closer to 1:1 on my 42XR4A than I have already. I know that it doesn't support a native 16x9 resolution, so this may not be possible, but perhaps someone has come up with a better resolution than what I'm currently using (something like 1232x704 with Nvidia overscan compensation).

Could you please comment if this is true?

.....There are only two types of TV's that are truly digital. These are based on either DLP (Digital Light Processing) or LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon, also called D-ILA or HD-ILA). EVERY other type of TV is actually analog. This includes Plasma, LCD, or CRT (standard rear-projection).
So, unless your TV is DLP or LCoS, component video and DVI/HDMI will look
identical. To take this a step further, DVI/HDMI might actually look worse to you,
since many TV's with DVI inputs disable all picture controls (e.g. brightness,
contrast, etc.) when using a DVI/HDMI signal.

In my condition of quasi-ignorance, I would first tell you that this very quotation was addressed and practically debunked in a recent issue of TPV, I think it was. Anyway, it would seem to be one of those true-true-unrelated issues. While it may be true that the functional nature of plasma, LCD, and CRT is analog (certainly true for CRT, but I don't really know for plasma and LCD; it depends upon whether pixels are binary [on or off] or not), what matters is the way the data are delivered to the processors that immediately precede the display. It seems to me that it is still advantageous to minimize the number of times that the data stream is converted from digital to analog and vice-versa. So one might in theory gain from using a DVI or HDMI input (which permit the set to "see" a digital data stream) without regard to the functional nature of the display itself. In reality, however, it seems that both DVI and HDMI as they are now implemented are problematic or poorly realized, so for that reason only DVI/HDMI connections are often no better and can be worse than analog connections, like the component type. But the problems with DVI and HDMI affect ALL types of displays, not just "analog" ones, even if that categorization of plasma and LCD sets is correct. Hope that helps a little.

I'm wondering if I can get closer to 1:1 on my 42XR4A than I have already. I know that it doesn't support a native 16x9 resolution, so this may not be possible, but perhaps someone has come up with a better resolution than what I'm currently using (something like 1232x704 with Nvidia overscan compensation).

According to NEC native rate is supported on the 42XR4A over HDMI at 60hz.
You might email NEC tech support through the NEC website and ask if they can provide you with timings.

Here's a copy of the response Big Marcelo got from NEC earlier in the thread:

Hi Marcelo,

Thank you for contacting NEC! The plasma can accept 1024X768 through the HDMI on one condition, if the source has a DVI output and can export the 1024X768 signal at 60hz.

Best Regards
NEC VSD Customer Service
1-800-836-0655
www.necvisualsystems.com

Could you please comment if this is true?

.....There are only two types of TV's that are truly digital. These are based on either DLP (Digital Light Processing) or LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon, also called D-ILA or HD-ILA). EVERY other type of TV is actually analog. This includes Plasma, LCD, or CRT (standard rear-projection).
So, unless your TV is DLP or LCoS, component video and DVI/HDMI will look
identical. To take this a step further, DVI/HDMI might actually look worse to you,
since many TV's with DVI inputs disable all picture controls (e.g. brightness,
contrast, etc.) when using a DVI/HDMI signal.

Sounds like propaganda from either Sony or Texas Instruments to me.
DVI/HDMI input remains digital to the display on these and all pdp's that I know of. Early on in the implementation of DVI, there were rumors that some sets did D/A and A/D conversion on the input but that was actually rumored only on the older Sony RP LCD's (irony here?). CRT's are certainly analog, I'll agree with that.

Hello everyone. I am a newbie that had been leaning towards a 42" panasonic commercial model until I found this thread. You all have been very helpful and I am now getting close to pulling the trigger on a 42XR4. For all of you close to San Francisco, House of Music has a NEC 42, 50 and 61 consumer model on display.

Thanks again for all of your help. This is the best informational site out there.

The stand Chris posted is the only tabletop stand Premier Mounts sells that supports the NEC plasmas, and it is adjustable. They do however sell it in two styles (black & clear) which show up as two seperate models on their site. They also have a Universal Home Theater Stand (notice the lack of the word "tabletop") which is also height adjustable. These products are represented at the bottom this page:
[URL=http://www.premiermounts.com/productPartBrowse.asp?ProductID=5101[/URL]

Worrying about the plasma falling seems a little paranoid when considering the stand is rated for panels up to 61 inches and that their search engine specifically points you to the PSD-TTS model when chosing a new NEC display. I may be the fool I guess. We'll find out. ;)

First of all, I agree that Chris would not be recommending this particular Premier stand (PSD-TTS) if he had any doubts about its structural integrity or its grip on the plasma panel. It's just that he did not previously explain that it was height adjustable (or I missed that point). Thus when I went searching for a stand with adjustable height, I found a different product (which I also thought was marketed by Premier, but maybe not) which looks flimsier than the PSD-TTS, has only one cross-member to grip the two vertical steel supports but looked as though it had taller steel supports than the PSD-TTS, thus allowing for higher mounting of the plasma with respect to the tabletop. However, the grip of the cross-member on the two posts is achieved with two set screws. Sorry, but that does not inspire (my) confidence. The PSD-TTS looks better designed, because it has two cross-members. As for my being paranoid - you're darn tootin' when it comes to supporting a 100-pound plasma panel worth thousands of dollars. I really do hope it works out for you, because I may buy one too in future. Problem for me is I need a little more height to get my 50-inch unit up at least 8 inches off the base. Hope the PSD-TTS can do that. BTW, I would go for the acrylic base, because acrylic is tougher, denser, stronger in most ways stuff than MDF; note that the acrylic version weighs 5 lbs more than the MDF one.

^^^^ The bottom line is this, when a mount or manufacturer states this or that will work and support a unit....they back it with insurance. I found these stands Because I felt the NEC stand is a little high in price. Not to bad, but a little high. I have sold more than a few of these stands and have had no complaints. (so far)

As a custom installer I give a :cool: look debating if what they tell me is true. (sometimes)

Well, after reading this thread for what feels like weeks, I have decided to trash my Dell and get the NEC. Here is my problem:

I am gettng a 42xm4 because I am getting it for a really good deal. I am little concerned about connections though. I will be connecting the following:

TW SA8300HD DVR - HDMI -> DVI(nec)
Kenwood DVD - Component -> Component(nec)
PS2 - I have component for this but the last bank of inputs is 5BNC. Can I just get an adapter and plug in the Y,Cb, & Cr and leave the H & V empty. Or should I just plug it in via S-video.

My last option is just to run all three via component thourgh my Denon receiver and then component from the Denon to the Nec.

I am concerned that there is no HDMI like on the XR and only one true Component.

Any direction would be appreciated.

Fundi

You can configure the BNC input on the XM4 to take component input.

You just need and RCA to BNC cable or BNC adapter plugs.

Thanks, that is what I figured just need some to put my mind at ease.

Does anyone have any input on the ISF Cal and the Bonded Color filter that is on the XR4 and not on the XM4? Is it that big a deal not to have them?

Fundi

Please excuse my totally noob question, but I am just starting out my research into plasmas. I am interested in the NEC PX-50XR5A, but it looks like its just a monitor with no built-in tuner or cablecard.

How does one get reception without a built-in tuner or cablecard? I have Comcast basic cable without a cable box. I also live in an area with poor antenna reception. Are you supposed to buy a separate tuner box and connect it to the monitor. If thats the case, where do you buy these boxes from?

you would get a comcast HD dvr....they're like $10/mo + cable fees

Hi folks,

What's the model number for the remote that comes with the 50XM5A?

Thanks!!

Any owners out there who's NEC has passed 200-400 hours+ that can answer yet another question about Image Retention for me? I know IR is not the same as Burn in, but I just do not want to have to switch to another channel or wait 5-10 minutes for any image retention to disappear. And please no replies saying to me yet again that IR <> Burn In, that's been established a while ago. I am not worried about burn in in any plasmas these days, but I'm concerned about the inconvenience of IR if present.

I know a lot of people who reported IR probably had < 100 hrs on their set at the time, but I'd like to know if its still apparent now after more use (even if it is diminished), and how long it takes the after image to go away.

I watch a lot of sports with a lot of static scoreboards. I also play a lot of NBA2k6 on the 360 and Madden which has static scoreboards as well. Other than that I watch a lot of DVD's via my Media Center PC that I am hoping to connect via the HDMI port if possible.

I have no stores around me with a NEC to check out for myself, and my shortlist is down to this NEC and the Panny 50" commercial, but I'm am so confused right now (both are available to me right now, so availability problems doesn't solve my problem). Too bad Canadian Costco's don't sell the Panny's like they do in US :(

Hi folks,

What's the model number for the remote that comes with the 50XM5A?

Thanks!!

The remote for the 50XM5 is RP-112. Do you need one? I happen to have one I don't need.

The 50XR5A's remote is RP-116, fwiw.

If the 50XR5 detects a static image will it automatically dim or blank after a few minutes to help prevent IR and burn in?

If the 50XR5 detects a static image will it automatically dim or blank after a few minutes to help prevent IR and burn in?

No. One unlucky owner had a TiVo image paused overnight. You'll see the story of his successful remedy a few pages back.

I got the Premier mount from chris for the 50XR5. My observations:

The amount of adjustment depends on the placement of the horizontal supports. The stand comes with many screws but the only ones that fit the XR5 cause the horizontal supports to be pretty far apart vertically and at the very top and bottom of the pdp. Because of this you can only raise the display about 2" above the base. There looks to be two additional sets of 4 (vertically aligned) screw locations on the back of the pdp that could be used to attach the horizontal supports lower down and give more room to raise it up but you would have to find your own screws and they would be much smaller than what I used - given the weight and cost I feel better with the bigger bolts.

Overall I have mixed feelings about the stand. The tubes and metal block are quite substantial but the base is painted wood. I for some reason was expecting metal. I also ended up with silver although I thought I had ordered black. As I already had the TV I did not want to wait around for a replacement so I decided to keep it. It is not bad but not as nice as I expected. I think the black model would look better given that it is painted. My guests have said the setup looks good.

[ Note: I never reported this to Chris or asked for a replacement ]

In addition to price I decided on this stand because I think it can allow me to get the pdp closer to the wall than the NEC.

The horizontal brackets are held in place on the tubes by 4 screws (2 tubes and 2 horizontal brackets). Given he physics I think all 4 would have to come lose for it to slide down and even then I think it would be a gradual slide. I have no worries about this.

Cheers, Steve

I got the Premier mount from chris for the 50XR5. My observations:
...Because of this you can only raise the display about 2" above the base.

Cheers, Steve
Two inches doesn't sound very promising. That's basically no more clearance than the NEC base.

If you can use the other set of mount holes I am pretty sure you can get another 4" at least. It would depend on how far down you could put the upper horizontal bracket. All you have to do is find the screws. Some specs are here on the intallation guide page 4 [I can't post links yet].

They are labled "for mount unit" so I think they would be secure. The Premier has vertical rods for using with the 4 vertical holes so I feel it would work.

Good luck.

I don't use powerstrip at all.
Uninstall powerstrip. You don't need it. The screen shot i sent is from the latest NVidia drivers. Create a custom resolution using the nvidia drivers and select it.

Jeff

PS - Totally unrelated, but 1000 hours is a LONG time...

Jeff,

Thanks - above are done in 6600GT card in my HTPC. But what about below, where do I input that?

Here are my actual powerstrip settings:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1365x768=1365,51,50,60,768,4,4,12,72149,33

Generic timing details for 1365x768:
HFP=51 HSW=50 HBP=60 kHz=47 VFP=4 VSW=4 VBP=12 Hz=60

VESA detailed timing details:
PClk=72149.00 H.Active=1365 H.Blank=161 H.Offset=35 HSW=50 V.Active=768 V.Blank=20 V.Offset=4 VSW=4

Linux modeline parameters:
"1365x768" 72.149 1365 1416 1466 1526 768 772 776 788 +hsync +vsync

Thanks so much for all the help!

If the 50XR5 detects a static image will it automatically dim or blank after a few minutes to help prevent IR and burn in?

I think this option is actually available in the user menu under power saver, I'll have to check to be sure.

It does have extensive anti-image retention features including orbiting and inverse/white screen, screen wiper options.

Any owners out there who's NEC has passed 200-400 hours+ that can answer yet another question about Image Retention for me? I know IR is not the same as Burn in, but I just do not want to have to switch to another channel or wait 5-10 minutes for any image retention to disappear. And please no replies saying to me yet again that IR <> Burn In, that's been established a while ago. I am not worried about burn in in any plasmas these days, but I'm concerned about the inconvenience of IR if present.

(

I have around 400 hours now. Ghosting is still present. It's less than it was at first, but I'm not sure if I can say it's changed much in the past 100 hours or so.

XR5 significantly better than the XR4? This thread is making me drool!!! I'd love to get the NEC 50XR5, but I need a silver frame. Does last year's model, 50XR4, (which has a silver frame) perform anywhere near this year's model? Or, is the 50XR5 significantly improved over last year's model? Thanks for your thoughts.

Well, I've been adjusting and adjusting for the best possible PQ over the past several weeks. I use the Lumagen HDP video processor with native rate and 1:1 to my XR5. Resolution has always been great with this setup. Superior to anything I saw with my panny 50 inch consumer pdp. However, I've been bothered by artifacting (false contouring , macroblocking especially in bright scenes). Also, there has just been a grainy look to the image from my seating position which is I think a combination of background macroblocking/false contouring as well as dithering noise. Black level performance seemed very good with this setup. Last night, I decided to take the scaler out and try straight to the set again through HDMI. The pq is overall much smoother with much less artifacting. It's simply a better picture without a doubt. Resolution is maintained with absolutely no dropoff with SD or HD.

I won't say I'll completely abandon using the VP but for now I'm back to straight to the NEC via HDMI/DVI. Kudos to NEC is all I can say. :)

The remote for the 50XM5 is RP-112. Do you need one? I happen to have one I don't need.

The 50XR5A's remote is RP-116, fwiw.

Thanks! I don't need one. What I was looking for was codes and compatability. I'm about to make/program a MX-850 remote. If anyone has made one, I sure would appreciate an upload as I haven't found one yet. Meanwhile I'll keep looking....

I know a lot of people who reported IR probably had < 100 hrs on their set at the time, but I'd like to know if its still apparent now after more use (even if it is diminished), and how long it takes the after image to go away.


I've had my set since last Saturday, so I guess it's now been about 6 days. I'd say I'm well over my 100 hours (so you do the math as to how much it's on each day...) and I can honestly say I haven't noticed image retention since after the first couple days, and since I made adjustments to the "long life" settings. To be honest, the only image retention I had was when I initially hooked it to the cable box, and I saw the cable box's setup menus image retained, and then when watching 4:3 material, I sometimes saw the vertical side bars when I had a blank screen. I have since set the TV so that it stretches 4:3 material using the stadium mode, which doesn't bother me at all. Mostly though, we watch HD or DVD material. I wouldn't worry too much about image retention bothering you though. I never noticed it except when there was a blank screen displayed, never with a program on the screen. I personally love this set, and also put in my vote for the NEC's stand. It is a beautiful, and HEAVY stable stand.

Good Luck,
Mark

XR5 significantly better than the XR4? This thread is making me drool!!! I'd love to get the NEC 50XR5, but I need a silver frame. Does last year's model, 50XR4, (which has a silver frame) perform anywhere near this year's model? Or, is the 50XR5 significantly improved over last year's model? Thanks for your thoughts.

For goodness sakes, the XR5 is black around the perimeter of the screen with a silver bezel surround. That's not close enough to "silver"? Why be that much of a slave to fashion?

I got the Premier mount from chris for the 50XR5. My observations:

The amount of adjustment depends on the placement of the horizontal supports. The stand comes with many screws but the only ones that fit the XR5 cause the horizontal supports to be pretty far apart vertically and at the very top and bottom of the pdp. Because of this you can only raise the display about 2" above the base. Cheers, Steve

I guess I will go with my earlier idea to have a carpenter make me a nice platform for the NEC stand (which I already own and use) using a good hardwood, in order to raise the plasma about 4 to 5 more inches so to accomodate a center channel speaker. One other downside to the Premier stand is that it does not allow for swivel. I've used that feature of the NEC stand several times already, to access wiring or to adjust the position of the set for guests (read "Super Bowl").

I think this option is actually available in the user menu under power saver, I'll have to check to be sure.

It does have extensive anti-image retention features including orbiting and inverse/white screen, screen wiper options.

I am pretty sure the power saver mode only operates when using the RGB input. I would have to check the manual to be sure, but I think that is what I read.

cpcat and Imark, thanks for your comments.

I have seen many setting settings for 50xr5 in the forum. Can someone post the day and night settings for < 500 hours and the same settings for > 500 hours. My apologies, if this has been posted already, could you please point me to the right place.

Thank you all for your valuable inputs.

NEw and old users of the xr5. If you have some"imaging isuues". Go back into your cables systems. Remove them and tight them up again. You might be surprised about how your PQ has improved or other isses address... Pay more attendion to cable/d*** cables from out side to inside... spliters..
just my 2.3/2 cents worth.
db

I have around 400 hours now. Ghosting is still present. It's less than it was at first, but I'm not sure if I can say it's changed much in the past 100 hours or so.


I have to agree with cpcat here, I have about 460 hours on my panel right now and while it is certainly diminished from when I first got it, image retention is still there at times. I had American Idol paused for about 15 minutes last night on a extremely bright scene and when unpaused it was still there for about a minute or so...nothing to bothersome though. I will say on my other NEC I had image retention that significantly diminished after the 1000 hour mark, so I am hoping for the same with the XR5. On my old NEC I can leave static images like the CNBC ticker on for hours and the image retention only last for seconds now.

Is this only available on the XR4's via the ISF, or is also available on the XM5's

Fundi

No. One unlucky owner had a TiVo image paused overnight. You'll see the story of his successful remedy a few pages back.

thats too bad. Even my 2nd gen LG does that in addition to orbiting, and I'm sure it's saved me a few times. I noticed the Panny 8uk does it as well.. You figure it would have been easy enough for them to put it in the firmware...

I had a stand made to put the Premier at the right height and hold my center channel. I got something very reasonable from Gothic Cabinet Craft (on the web) by taking simple open bookshelf and having them adjust the dimensions. I had the larger stand also adjusted to make a matching home for the AV components.

Thanks Chris for offering to get me the black stand. I don't think it is worth the effort. Also, the invoice has the silver model listed which I did not notice earlier so maybe I misheard when we talked. Thanks for the great service.

So what's the latest on these XR5s? Are they backordered everywhere now?

For goodness sakes, the XR5 is black around the perimeter of the screen with a silver bezel surround. That's not close enough to "silver"? Why be that much of a slave to fashion?

You're preaching to the choir....the silver would make my wife really happy so if last year's model is pretty close to this year's model, I'm going to throw her a bone. Any insight?

So what's the latest on these XR5s? Are they backordered everywhere now?

New guy joining the club. As stated by many others, I too, took the plunge this past week and ordered a XR5 blindly. I should know better than to make a purchase this large without actually even seeing it. I even feel foolish admitting that. Anyways, thanks to all that have helped me over the fence. I am excited and eager to enjoy this new display. Unfortunately like the above statement reads. I ordered it directly from NEC (that whole friends and family deal) and they are 6 weeks out!!! So needless to say I am now just staring at a blank wall imagining what this will look like. Once again thanks and I look forward to learning more and not being disappointed with my purchase.

I just found something fun. Using the 'side-by-side' button on my 50XM5 remote I was able to get the same picture from the same source using the DVI and the component connections and this allows me to compare the quality of the two images without having to go back-n-forth for comparison. I have a Dish 811 Satellite receiver with several output options and I decided to try adding HD component connections without removing the DVI connector and then I hit the side-by-side button on the NEC remote and I could see the subtle differances between the two feeds. So far, I prefer the DVI for detail. DVI has more red in the image and it will take me a while to fine-tune it things. This is a great feature to experiment with.

Can someone tell me if there is anyway to get picture in picture with the two hdmis? One highdef image on hdmi 1 and another on hmdi 2

You're preaching to the choir....the silver would make my wife really happy so if last year's model is pretty close to this year's model, I'm going to throw her a bone. Any insight?

If you are asking me to compare the 50XR4 to the 50XR5, I haven't a clue. Perhaps someone else can answer this one. All that I have read on this forum would suggest that the 50XR5 is a great leap forward in most respects. What I was trying to say is that the 50XR5 IS silver (as well as black).

Is there a menu option to view the number of hours logged? How does everyone know how long they've been watching?

Well, I've been adjusting and adjusting for the best possible PQ over the past several weeks. I use the Lumagen HDP video processor with native rate and 1:1 to my XR5. Resolution has always been great with this setup. Superior to anything I saw with my panny 50 inch consumer pdp. However, I've been bothered by artifacting (false contouring , macroblocking especially in bright scenes). Also, there has just been a grainy look to the image from my seating position which is I think a combination of background macroblocking/false contouring as well as dithering noise. Black level performance seemed very good with this setup. Last night, I decided to take the scaler out and try straight to the set again through HDMI. The pq is overall much smoother with much less artifacting. It's simply a better picture without a doubt. Resolution is maintained with absolutely no dropoff with SD or HD.

I won't say I'll completely abandon using the VP but for now I'm back to straight to the NEC via HDMI/DVI. Kudos to NEC is all I can say. :)


Hey cpcat - that is definitely surprising! The one thing about the Lumagens is that they have so many settings, and I'd hope with the right amount of tweeking eventually you should get a better image with it than without .....

speaks volumes about the capabilities of the NEC electronics.....

I just compared the 42" against the Fuji and old pio professional... I still prefer the NEC ...

Hey cpcat - that is definitely surprising! The one thing about the Lumagens is that they have so many settings, and I'd hope with the right amount of tweeking eventually you should get a better image with it than without .....

speaks volumes about the capabilities of the NEC electronics.....

I just compared the 42" against the Fuji and old pio professional... I still prefer the NEC ...

I've adjusted and tweaked, adjusted and tweaked, then some more. :) I've tried just about every setup permutation that I could think of. I have the latest 1080i inverse telecine firmware upgrade for the Lumagen as well.

I've even tried the analog 1080p out to the display.

Gotta hand it to NEC.

Like I said, though, I'm not throwing away the VP yet.

Is there a menu option to view the number of hours logged? How does everyone know how long they've been watching?

The service menu offers this information, somewhere around the 4th or 5th screen. For whatever reason, the admin's find it disagreeable to post the service menu access code here in this forum.

Follow this link:
http://www.bruzzi.ws/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=142

I've adjusted and tweaked, adjusted and tweaked, then some more. :) I've tried just about every setup permutation that I could think of. I have the latest 1080i inverse telecine firmware upgrade for the Lumagen as well.

I've even tried the analog 1080p out to the display.

Gotta hand it to NEC.

Like I said, though, I'm not throwing away the VP yet.

hi cpcat, does the lumagen has a 'sharpness' setting over HDMI? not sure if it does.... I'm sure you would have tried this anyway.

anyway the HDP is a cool machine - but this is excellent news for prospective owners who don't have scalers..... I love the stadium stretch feature for 4:3 SD transmissions

For some that maybe interested, I did a quick comparisson of the NEC 42" vs the outgoing pioneer pro model Here is the link to the Australian Forum (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=31424&view=findpost&p=359151)

hi cpcat, does the lumagen has a 'sharpness' setting over HDMI? not sure if it does.... I'm sure you would have tried this anyway.

anyway the HDP is a cool machine - but this is excellent news for prospective owners who don't have scalers..... I love the stadium stretch feature for 4:3 SD transmissions

For some that maybe interested, I did a quick comparisson of the NEC 42" vs the outgoing pioneer pro model Here is the link to the Australian Forum (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=31424&view=findpost&p=359151)

Yeah, the HDP has sharpness over DVI. Resolution is great either with or without the HDP, though. The sharpness control only adds edge enhancement which I don't prefer. I kept the sharpness at 0 with the HDP and do the same on the NEC, at least over HDMI/DVI.

The big difference is in artifacting. The NEC's scaler/processing has much less. I also like the noise reduction feature and use it set at NR-1. This is one nice display.

Yeah, the HDP has sharpness over DVI. Resolution is great either with or without the HDP, though. The sharpness control only adds edge enhancement which I don't prefer. I kept the sharpness at 0 with the HDP and do the same on the NEC, at least over HDMI/DVI.

The big difference is in artifacting. The NEC's scaler/processing has much less. I also like the noise reduction feature and use it set at NR-1. This is one nice display.
yah, when I was testing the NEC 42", even with the special edition of the fifth element, which is a great testing DVD... it looked much better with NR1 - much clearer image... removed some of the film grain.... I also used the theatre 1 option, have you this one? did you notice any improvements with it?

thanks,

Marcelo

Thanks guys, this decision is driving me crazy. If only the NEC and Panny commercial is available at a place here that allows me to return if I'm not happy. ;( Well, time to just flip a coin.

^^^^^ Why not do this...

Is there anyone who know owns a NEC that regreets buying it?? ( Keep in mind I think about 90% - 95% of the owners bought sight unseen.)

I do not regreet my choice.

yah, when I was testing the NEC 42", even with the special edition of the fifth element, which is a great testing DVD... it looked much better with NR1 - much clearer image... removed some of the film grain.... I also used the theatre 1 option, have you this one? did you notice any improvements with it?

thanks,

Marcelo

I'm going back and forth with NR-1 and leaving it off. It's still pretty clean without it. I watched a 2.35:1 DVD tonight (Wedding Crashers, hilarious!) and even on the 2.35:1 stretch mode it looked fairly smooth.

Here are my current settings through HDMI:

Contrast 48
Brt 40
Color 30
Tint 32
Sharp 0
NR NR-1 or off to taste
Temp Mid-low
*GR 43
*GG 36
*GB 37
*BR 40
*BG 40
*BB 40
Cinema On
Pic Theater 1
Gamma 2.2
Low tone auto
Setup level 0
Color tune default values

Theater 1 seems to provide a richer looking image to my eye than normal does. Theater 2 is even more so but is a little dark.

thanks for the settings cpcat,

cheers!

thanks for the settings cpcat,

cheers!

seen you on another forum, do you own the Australian version of the NEC? if so whats it like and does it have bad judder? I hear only the 42" version of new NEC's have judder in AU but the 50" doesn't... any ideas?

seen you on another forum, do you own the Australian version of the NEC? if so whats it like and does it have bad judder? I hear only the 42" version of new NEC's have judder in AU but the 50" doesn't... any ideas?


I did some extensive testing on the NEC ... I don't own it yet... it has some judder @ 50hz (so the USA folks should be fine!), however its only noticeable when you are watching news tickers or slow paning motions..... and I only really noticed it because it was beside the Fuji 50" and the Hitachi... both other panels the news tickers were very, very smooth...

I want to check the pana professional panel and also test the NEC again with my DVDO 30 scaler....

I haven't seen the 50" NEC yet.... my viewing distance is more suitable for a 42" - however if the 50" was better in respects to judder... I would consider the 50" instead.

as you have read on this forum, the images and PQ of the NEC 42" are stunning... very clear with 3D look with good feeds.... some owners down under don't even notice the judder.... only if you look hard enough ...and I'm hoping its only on news tickers and slow panning motions..... I should be able to live with that....

I did some extensive testing on the NEC ... I don't own it yet... it has some judder @ 50hz (so the USA folks should be fine!), however its only noticeable when you are watching news tickers or slow paning motions..... and I only really noticed it because it was beside the Fuji 50" and the Hitachi... both other panels the news tickers were very, very smooth...

I want to check the pana professional panel and also test the NEC again with my DVDO 30 scaler....

I haven't seen the 50" NEC yet.... my viewing distance is more suitable for a 42" - however if the 50" was better in respects to judder... I would consider the 50" instead.

as you have read on this forum, the images and PQ of the NEC 42" are stunning... very clear with 3D look with good feeds.... some owners down under don't even notice the judder.... only if you look hard enough ...and I'm hoping its only on news tickers and slow panning motions..... I should be able to live with that....

did you get to see any movies that show lots of black like sci-fi movies, and how did it stand up to the panasonic panels? I know they are considered probably the best blacks, is it close to that?

I want to thank everyone here for the great posts and then creating a great dilema for me. After having decided to buy the 50" Panny I now want the NEC without ever having seen it. (Want it bad!!) Here is my problem. I can get Panny service locally but the NEC would have to be shipped for any problems with the screen or glass. Boards ,conectors etc could be handled locally. Are the advantages of the NEC worth taking this chance or should I stick with the Panny. I'm afraid that if I do that I will then get to see the NEC and kick myself for not buying it.
From everythng I've read here the NEC has better PQ; better scaling and better inputs. It also appears to handle SD better which is a concerm for me. Please let me know your thoughts. I know you can't make my decision for me but I'm trying to make a rather large investment on something I've never seen and appreciate your input.

It sounds to me like your mind is already made up. If you believe the NEC has better PQ (I think you're correct), you'd never be satisfied with the Panny no matter what. The warranty is better on the NEC consumer. In the unlikely event of needing panel replacement, all you'd need to do is pack the NEC up and have it picked up vs. needing to make your own arrangements for the Panny.

I'm assuming you saw the post earlier from Chris delineating the in-home warranty policy for the NEC consumer panels. If you live within 80 miles of a service location they'll come and get it/repair it on-site whichever's necessary. If not, they'll pay shipping both ways but you have to pack it up. Additionally, the warranty for parts/labor is 3 years (1 year panel replacement).

Panasonic commercial is carry-in so you have the sole responsibility of getting your panel in for service either way and it's only 1 year.

I haven't seen the 50" NEC yet.... my viewing distance is more suitable for a 42" - however if the 50" was better in respects to judder... I would consider the 50" instead.



I think you may want to check out the 50". To me the 42" seems like it is closer to a Pioneer/NEC collaboration (with the inputs on the bottom) and all then the 50", which still seems to be solely an NEC product. Would be interested in your findings....please let us know.

Thanks guys, this decision is driving me crazy. If only the NEC and Panny commercial is available at a place here that allows me to return if I'm not happy. ;( Well, time to just flip a coin.


Plasmaconcepts allows you to do just that with the NEC!!!!!! check out their website. My guess would be you'll end up keeping it :)

It sounds to me like your mind is already made up. If you believe the NEC has better PQ (I think you're correct), you'd never be satisfied with the Panny no matter what. The warranty is better on the NEC consumer. In the unlikely event of needing panel replacement, all you'd need to do is pack the NEC up and have it picked up vs. needing to make your own arrangements for the Panny.

I'm assuming you saw the post earlier from Chris delineating the in-home warranty policy for the NEC consumer panels. If you live within 80 miles of a service location they'll come and get it/repair it on-site whichever's necessary. If not, they'll pay shipping both ways but you have to pack it up. Additionally, the warranty for parts/labor is 3 years (1 year panel replacement).

Panasonic commercial is carry-in so you have the sole responsibility of getting your panel in for service either way and it's only 1 year.

Thanks cpcat. What you say makes sense and justifies what you had already figured out. That I have made up my mind. I just need that little push to get me over the line. Even though we all make our own decisions we all like that reassurance that you are making the right choice. Again, thanks to everyone. This is a great site and most helpful. I will definitely be providing some feedback afte I get my XR5A. Best regards to everyone.

Thanks cpcat. What you say makes sense and justifies what you had already figured out. That I have made up my mind. I just need that little push to get me over the line.

Okay , here you go.

http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/signjpegs/p/push.h30.jpg

I've got a harmony 6 series and in anticipation of getting a 50xr5 I added the device to my harmony setup and noted that it only has hd1,2 and 3 inputs included. I saw previous posters indicate that they had "added an input for HD4" to the device in the harmony setup.

How is this done?

Thanks

Okay , here you go.




LOL! :)

The problem of doing that is people always have biases towards products they own. If you ask Panny owners, they'd have no regrets either :( So for me it comes down to which one has the least amount of issues that will affect my enjoyment, and owners of NEC and Panasonics have all been very helpful to me so far.

The issues that concerns me:

NEC:
- IR occurs more easily than the Panasonics after break in, and even though its not permanent, I think it will bother me because of what I usually will use the display for (Sports with tickers, news channels, sports video games with scores that cannot be turned off). I am not concerned about burn in whatsoever, but I know I'd be annoyed at image retention/ghosting even if it is for one to five minutes. Been impressed with my friend's 42" Panny which we had games up for 4+ hours, or a poker tourny timer from his computer on with static bright images on for like 6-8 hours without any hint of burnin on black or white screens afterwards. Crazy how we abused his plasma :)
- black levels, although probably a moot point after adjusting the Panasonic to not show the floating blacks as drastically.

Panasonic:
- possible loss of resolution via component at 720p, but could be remedied by not using component at all, or just 1080i via component
- floating blacks, haven't seen it myself, but people say its bothersome
- PQ not as nice as NEC/Pioneer
- Scaler not as good as NEC, although I don't really watch any SD anyways, so no big deal.

If only Costco Canada carried the Panny or NEC... :(

^^^^^ Why not do this...

Is there anyone who know owns a NEC that regreets buying it?? ( Keep in mind I think about 90% - 95% of the owners bought sight unseen.)

I do not regreet my choice.

The problem of doing that is people always have biases towards products they own. If you ask Panny owners, they'd have no regrets either :( So for me it comes down to which one has the least amount of issues that will affect my enjoyment, and owners of NEC and Panasonics have all been very helpful to me so far.

The issues that concerns me:

NEC:
- IR occurs more easily than the Panasonics after break in, and even though its not permanent, I think it will bother me because of what I usually will use the display for (Sports with tickers, news channels, sports video games with scores that cannot be turned off). I am not concerned about burn in whatsoever, but I know I'd be annoyed at image retention/ghosting even if it is for one to five minutes. Been impressed with my friend's 42" Panny which we had games up for 4+ hours, or a poker tourny timer from his computer on with static bright images on for like 6-8 hours without any hint of burnin on black or white screens afterwards. Crazy how we abused his plasma :)
- black levels, although probably a moot point after adjusting the Panasonic to not show the floating blacks as drastically.

Panasonic:
- possible loss of resolution via component at 720p, but could be remedied by not using component at all, or just 1080i via component
- floating blacks, haven't seen it myself, but people say its bothersome
- PQ not as nice as NEC/Pioneer
- Scaler not as good as NEC, although I don't really watch any SD anyways, so no big deal.

If only Costco Canada carried the Panny or NEC... :(

The resolution issue with Panasonic is independent of the connection used AFAIK. This is certainly the case with my TH-50PX50U.

If you've seen my posts, you know that I have been using the Lumagen HDP which is a very well regarded VP with my NEC. I've found the NEC to look better overall without it. I'd say if anything I would have been biased towards using the VP as there's somewhat of a novelty factor involved. If you follow the Panny threads you know that many of the hardcore enthusiasts use VP's with their displays which solves the resolution problem for them. Based on my experience, though, a quality internal scaler such as the one contained in the NEC (and maybe Pio, Fuji as well) can perform better overall. This makes sense as the scaler/processor can be designed around the display. Another way to think of this: its likely that, assuming the VP is feeding NR and 1:1 mapped thus bypassing the display's scaler, those using a VP with the 8UK are at best seeing a picture similar to the one I was before with my NEC/Lumagen combo. The one difference in favor of the 8UK might be slightly better blacks. Nevertheless, the picture I'm seeing now is undoubtedly superior.

So, factor in the cost of the 8UK + VP and you still don't have the overall PQ of the NEC.

I see the IR and possible small black level performance differences as wild cards. They're probably not very significant. If you want it all, go with the Fuji but you'll have to pay extra for it. Even then, what you'd be paying for are the wild cards.

For those of us who are Dish users there is a good review of the Dish 622 HD box scheduled for an April release. The best news is that is will output 480i. There is a review at

www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=53590

The issues that concerns me:

NEC:
- IR occurs more easily than the Panasonics after break in, and even though its not permanent, I think it will bother me because of what I usually will use the display for (Sports with tickers, news channels, sports video games with scores that cannot be turned off). I am not concerned about burn in whatsoever, but I know I'd be annoyed at image retention/ghosting even if it is for one to five minutes. Been impressed with my friend's 42" Panny which we had games up for 4+ hours, or a poker tourny timer from his computer on with static bright images on for like 6-8 hours without any hint of burnin on black or white screens afterwards. Crazy how we abused his plasma :)
- black levels, although probably a moot point after adjusting the Panasonic to not show the floating blacks as drastically.

Panasonic:
- possible loss of resolution via component at 720p, but could be remedied by not using component at all, or just 1080i via component
- floating blacks, haven't seen it myself, but people say its bothersome
- PQ not as nice as NEC/Pioneer
- Scaler not as good as NEC, although I don't really watch any SD anyways, so no big deal.

If only Costco Canada carried the Panny or NEC... :(

Scaler is better in NEC, but it doesn't only make a difference in SD.. a Native 720P res is 1280X720 and your screesn are 1365 @ 720 or something like that, so there is still scaling on a 720P signal, as well as a 1080 signal, so scaling can be important beyond the SD argument. I've seen them side by side (well virtually it was the 42 panny) and the IR is an issue with the NEC, specifically if you are looking for it. Within 5-10 mins of watching a 4:3 signal with black bars, I could still quite easily see the 4:3 bar line in the 16:9 picture, although I was looking for it.. after a few mins at a reasonable viewing distance i stopped noticing it, it did take minutes to go away, not seconds. I found personally that the colour representation between the 2 monitors are different, and it would come down to a matter of taste, for mine I could say the colours may be more rich or vibrant in the panasonic, where on the NEC i found the colours to be more accurate, and balanced. Of course these are only what my eyes see. Call around, or call NEC canada and see if you can find a depot or retailer that has one in stock. If you are fence sitting and this is a significant purchase to you, I would suggest trying your hardest to locate a unit so you can see it yourself. If you have trouble locating an 8uk panny to view, i found that the consumer PX50 models were equivalent in PQ. If you want to see the bezel and style of the panny 8UK in person, they have many in use at various stores at Pacific Mall in Markham.. They are not selling them, just using them to display dvd products they sell or attract people to the store. A panny retailer must have done some big offer for residents of the mall, I remember seeing at least 3 of them in varying sizes..

Cpcat i tried to use your advanced timing for the nvidia cards on the display and when I set apply to enable the settings they automatically reverted to the origiginal settings what is up have you ever seen this???

Cpcat i tried to use your advanced timing for the nvidia cards on the display and when I set apply to enable the settings they automatically reverted to the origiginal settings what is up have you ever seen this???

Did you see this post by DCypher?: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=622396&page=44&pp=30

Scroll down about mid way. He even attached a screen shot of the nvidia timings advanced settings window.

Hi,

I am seriously interested on the purchase of one of the two NEC Plasmas (50xr5-50xm5).

I would like to connect the display through DVI / HDMI to an external scaler. I thereforefore kindly ask you if the display will accept native resolution @ 50hz through hdmi/dvi or if it converts the signal to 60hz internally.

I live in Europe and this information is essential to help me to make the right choice.

I will be glad if someone could help me.


Regards

robertb

The NEC's will only do NR over DVI/HDMI at 60hz. You'll need to go to VGA for 50 hz. Sorry. I've heard the Pioneer commercial Euro models will accept NR over DVI at 50hz but I can't confirm that.

Yes CPCAT I used those timings but when I press accept they seem to be reset back to the default timings whats up???

did you get to see any movies that show lots of black like sci-fi movies, and how did it stand up to the panasonic panels? I know they are considered probably the best blacks, is it close to that?

Hi BAAl,

I tested the NEC versus the pioneer commercial model (equivalent to the 435HD) and the Fujitsu .... I didn't test against the Panasonic, so I can't comment specifically for that.

However I did test dar scenes - Fifth Element, Master & Commander (fog) and Lost in space .... the NEC did very, very well in those tests ...

The new Pio commercial is supposed to have improved the black levels of the one I tested (just released in Australia, I couldn't find a store which had one on display).


The black levels of the NEC are great - and the scaler is possibly better than the Panasonic - however since I didn't test the panasonic using the same discs/scenes its far more of IMHO than actual 'test' ....

Okay , here you go.

http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/signjpegs/p/push.h30.jpg

LOL, LOL :)

Hi,

I am seriously interested on the purchase of one of the two NEC Plasmas (50xr5-50xm5).

I would like to connect the display through DVI / HDMI to an external scaler. I thereforefore kindly ask you if the display will accept native resolution @ 50hz through hdmi/dvi or if it converts the signal to 60hz internally.

I live in Europe and this information is essential to help me to make the right choice.

I will be glad if someone could help me.


Regards

robertb

Hi Robert,

You can find some discussion on the 50hz issues in this Australian DTV Forum - (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=31424&view=findpost&p=358055)

Tomorrow is the day that I become complete as a man. Full report with pictures to come :-D

Question regarding NEC 50XR5A Table Top Stands........I have seen many comments on stands throughout this thread, but they do not tie everything together for me. What are the features of the NEC stand as compared to the Premier stand (as mentioned by Chris from Cleveland Plasma), i.e. do they both swivel, does either of them tilt, what is the max height you can place the plasma from the base?

Also, are there any other stands recommended? Ideally I am looking for a black table top stand that will swivel, tilt, and allow me to raise the plasma at least 6 in from the base (more than 6 would be awesome, but not required). And I of course want something that is sturdy, as I tend to panic a bit when it comes to electronics costing this much $ :-p

I did a little research and found a table top stand by Peerless (PLT-BLK) which does swivel and tilt; however, I have no idea the quality of this stand nor how high the plasma will sit from the base, plus it is rather pricy since you need to purchase a plate adapter, as well as, the stand.

Any help/advice with this matter is greatly appreciated :-D

Tomorrow is the day that I become complete as a man. :-D

Hard to believe , specially with that screen name .
Are your sure ? :D :D

MORE PICS!!!! MORE PICS!!!!

This guy <------- Patiently waiting on pics/review info on the optional speakers.

MORE PICS!!!! MORE PICS!!!!

This guy <------- Patiently waiting on pics/review info on the optional speakers.
You're in luck, I should have those tomorrow too :cool:

I had the same problem when I didn't quite have the timings right, or when i had powerstrip enabled.

Double/Triple check your settings.
What version of the nvidia drivers are you using?
Can you post a screen shot of your timings?

Are you hooking up with DVI/HDMI or VGA?

You can just PM me if you like and we can work at this outside of this thread...

Jeff

Yes CPCAT I used those timings but when I press accept they seem to be reset back to the default timings whats up???

New guy joining the club. As stated by many others, I too, took the plunge this past week and ordered a XR5 blindly. I should know better than to make a purchase this large without actually even seeing it. I even feel foolish admitting that. Anyways, thanks to all that have helped me over the fence. I am excited and eager to enjoy this new display. Unfortunately like the above statement reads. I ordered it directly from NEC (that whole friends and family deal) and they are 6 weeks out!!! So needless to say I am now just staring at a blank wall imagining what this will look like. Once again thanks and I look forward to learning more and not being disappointed with my purchase.

6 weeks! Is NEC starting to follow the commercial Panny 50" business model?

Yep, been following your posts, which is the main reason I'm still considering the NEC (sight unseen ofcourse!) :P I pretty much have to evaluate how much I put weight on those wild cards, and how much more I may be "abusing" my plasma than others on here. Will let you know which way my decision runs...

Thanks!

The resolution issue with Panasonic is independent of the connection used AFAIK. This is certainly the case with my TH-50PX50U.

If you've seen my posts, you know that I have been using the Lumagen HDP which is a very well regarded VP with my NEC. I've found the NEC to look better overall without it. I'd say if anything I would have been biased towards using the VP as there's somewhat of a novelty factor involved. If you follow the Panny threads you know that many of the hardcore enthusiasts use VP's with their displays which solves the resolution problem for them. Based on my experience, though, a quality internal scaler such as the one contained in the NEC (and maybe Pio, Fuji as well) can perform better overall. This makes sense as the scaler/processor can be designed around the display. Another way to think of this: its likely that, assuming the VP is feeding NR and 1:1 mapped thus bypassing the display's scaler, those using a VP with the 8UK are at best seeing a picture similar to the one I was before with my NEC/Lumagen combo. The one difference in favor of the 8UK might be slightly better blacks. Nevertheless, the picture I'm seeing now is undoubtedly superior.

So, factor in the cost of the 8UK + VP and you still don't have the overall PQ of the NEC.

I see the IR and possible small black level performance differences as wild cards. They're probably not very significant. If you want it all, go with the Fuji but you'll have to pay extra for it. Even then, what you'd be paying for are the wild cards.

Good point on the scaling of material other than SD. As for colour accuracy, I've been looking at Pioneers vs Panasonics before, and I like each one differently, and I'm sure I'd like the NEC one as well. When it gets home, each one of these display's colour would probably look great by itself.

As for IR, I was hoping to hear that someone who's at like 900hrs saying that it'd be hard to produce IR after breaking it in for xxx hours, although I guess this set is too new to get that response as of yet.

Anyways, I'll try to locate a NEC somehow like suggested.

Thanks!

Scaler is better in NEC, but it doesn't only make a difference in SD.. a Native 720P res is 1280X720 and your screesn are 1365 @ 720 or something like that, so there is still scaling on a 720P signal, as well as a 1080 signal, so scaling can be important beyond the SD argument. I've seen them side by side (well virtually it was the 42 panny) and the IR is an issue with the NEC, specifically if you are looking for it. Within 5-10 mins of watching a 4:3 signal with black bars, I could still quite easily see the 4:3 bar line in the 16:9 picture, although I was looking for it.. after a few mins at a reasonable viewing distance i stopped noticing it, it did take minutes to go away, not seconds. I found personally that the colour representation between the 2 monitors are different, and it would come down to a matter of taste, for mine I could say the colours may be more rich or vibrant in the panasonic, where on the NEC i found the colours to be more accurate, and balanced. Of course these are only what my eyes see. Call around, or call NEC canada and see if you can find a depot or retailer that has one in stock. If you are fence sitting and this is a significant purchase to you, I would suggest trying your hardest to locate a unit so you can see it yourself. If you have trouble locating an 8uk panny to view, i found that the consumer PX50 models were equivalent in PQ. If you want to see the bezel and style of the panny 8UK in person, they have many in use at various stores at Pacific Mall in Markham.. They are not selling them, just using them to display dvd products they sell or attract people to the store. A panny retailer must have done some big offer for residents of the mall, I remember seeing at least 3 of them in varying sizes..

Hi,

I have a Radeon 9800 Pro so it has DVI and 15DsubRGB output.
Will NECXR5's HMDI happy with my PC's DVI output?

Second question, probably a stupid one but does the NECXR5 made in Japan?

Thanks.

Hi,

I have a Radeon 9800 Pro so it has DVI and 15DsubRGB output.
Will NECXR5's HMDI happy with my PC's DVI output?

Second question, probably a stupid one but does the NECXR5 made in Japan?

Thanks.

Yes to both. The only thing with a PC via HDMI will be the number of resolution options you'll have. HDMI is often limited to 480p, 720p, 1080i. 1365 x 768p is also an option (native rate, see prior posts here for timings). Whether the other common pc resolutions will work I don't know. I use VGA for my pc input and I use 800 x 600 simply because it's too hard to read the text with the higher resolutions from my seat.

What an interesting thread... I must admit, there's a lot of info here that has gone way over my head. However, I'm down to the final four.

Panny TH-50PHD8UK (1 year warranty)
NEC 50XR5 (3 year warranty)
Pioneer Elite PRO 1130HD (2 year warranty
Hitachi 55HDX62 (2 year warranty)

What do you all think?

I like the good ratings on the Panny, love the warranty on the NEC, the Pioneer Elites have always been nice (pricey) with a good warranty and now Hitachi has a 55" Director's series model with a 2 year warranty at 1080p for the price of a 50".

Decisions Decisions...

Thanks.

Scott

What an interesting thread... I must admit, there's a lot of info here that has gone way over my head. However, I'm down to the final four.

Panny TH-50PHD8UK (1 year warranty)
NEC 50XR5 (3 year warranty)
Pioneer Elite PRO 1130HD (2 year warranty
Hitachi 55HDX62 (2 year warranty)

What do you all think?

I like the good ratings on the Panny, love the warranty on the NEC, the Pioneer Elites have always been nice (pricey) with a good warranty and now Hitachi has a 55" Director's series model with a 2 year warranty at 1080p for the price of a 50".

Decisions Decisions...

Thanks.

Scott

The Hitachi isn't 1080p and I'd consider it a notch below the other three.

You'll not go wrong with either of the top 3 but my bias for combination of best PQ and value would be the NEC. This is the NEC owner's thread, afterall. :)

Hi,

I just ordered the NECXR5 from Projector Point. I been told it will be delivered end of next week.

My decision was almost final on the Panny 50UK8 but after reading the NECXR5 reviews I changed my mind.

I like the NEC's warranty, its inputs and its appearance. I hope I made the right decision.

The Hitachi isn't 1080p and I'd consider it a notch below the other three.

You'll not go wrong with either of the top 3 but my bias for combination of best PQ and value would be the NEC. This is the NEC owner's thread, afterall. :)

Have you actually seen all four next to each other? :D

Have you actually seen all four next to each other? :D

Nope. For that I'd have to charge you.

I've seen the NEC 42", the Fuji 50" and the Hitachi 55" next to each other.....

I prefer the NEC 42", then the Hitachi 55" and then the Fuji 50" ... I know others will probably bash me for saying that I prefer the Hitachi 55" versus the fuji ... but the PQ was very nice overall of the Hitachi ... didn't have the same blacks or perceived definition of the NEC..but then again, different panel sizes.... assuming the NEC 50" is similar to the NEC 42" I would suggest I probably prefer the NEC 50" over the Hitachi 55" or the Fuji... then again, I would need to see them side by side... which is not an easy thing to do ....

the better blacks on the NEC gives the picture a 3D sort of feel and look... the hitachi and fuji, albeit still great panels in their own right, looked a bit flat (2D) in comparisson ....

again folks, all IMHO ....

For all the NEC owners and those considering the NEC, please note that what follows is a continuing description of my personal experience with NEC's warranty service and their efforts to satisfy their customer. I have what I believe to be an overly noisy panel - something that is the exception among the owners here, not the norm. My original post can be found here:

Earlier Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7137202&&#post7137202)

Well, the local repair shop wasn't able to help with my complaint about the buzz/hum coming from my 50XR5. I got the "according to the manufacturer,they all do that" diagnosis. The tech offered to calibrate one of my inputs at no charge and return the panel to me some time this week. When I asked about NEC's actual response, he said that they thought my smaller room size (12' x 16'), along with the wall mounting, was the reason I was hearing the noise. It was pretty obvious that nothing more would/could be done by the local tech. I told him to call me this week to set up a return date and time.

I then moved up a notch on the warranty chain by contacting NEC directly. They have a very user-friendly portal on their website for opening support tickets. And they actually follow up with prompt e-mail replies and phone calls! After a lot of questions about my room, mounting, and even ceiling height, I finally convinced the engineers (yep, engineers, that got my attention, too) that the noise was, to me, louder than their normally acceptable 20db standard. I also reiterated that the noise didn't become apparent until after I had the unit operating for a couple of weeks.

Seems that NEC is now interested in picking up my unit for testing at their facility. I suggested that the NEC engineer working on my problem might contact the local repair tech to confirm that I'm not being overly sensitive to this noise. He originally agreed with me that the buzz/hum was very noticable, and I don't want to cut him totally out of the loop. You know, the old burnt bridges thing could end up applying here.

It's nice to know that just a few phone calls and e-mails are getting all this attention. So far, the NEC warranty still seems to be a plus. And, I'm thrilled that their engineers actually tried to duplicate my situation in their lab. Now, seeing a potential problem with my panel, they're willing to ship the unit back to their lab for testing. To me, this says a lot for NEC and their products.

But, I'd really rather be putting hundreds of hours on my plasma instead of thousands of miles :rolleyes:

To be continued...

Dave

The Hitachi isn't 1080p and I'd consider it a notch below the other three.

You'll not go wrong with either of the top 3 but my bias for combination of best PQ and value would be the NEC. This is the NEC owner's thread, afterall. :)

--------------------------

I am busy on this forum today as I spent a good deal of time with a Panny 8 UK and my dear NEC 50 XR5.

Honestly, it's a toss up in terms of PQ. I prefer the NEC for the better warranty and general aesthetics.

However, I have a Panny (7th gen) and it hasn't come close to requiring any service.

I was also surprised to find that the new Panny 8 UK has no fans! totally silent and no IR out of the bat.

But picture clarity of SD was one area where the NEC out performs the Panny. Plus, the zoom and connectivity (although, I don't think connectivity is a problem with the Panny either).

I'd get either the Panny or NEC - whichever is available :)

--------------------------

I am busy on this forum today as I spent a good deal of time with a Panny 8 UK and my dear NEC 50 XR5.

Honestly, it's a toss up in terms of PQ. I prefer the NEC for the better warranty and general aesthetics.

However, I have a Panny (7th gen) and it hasn't come close to requiring any service.

I was also surprised to find that the new Panny 8 UK has no fans! totally silent and no IR out of the bat.

But picture clarity of SD was one area where the NEC out performs the Panny. Plus, the zoom and connectivity (although, I don't think connectivity is a problem with the Panny either).

I'd get either the Panny or NEC - whichever is available :)

The Panny does have fans (50" and 65" for sure). But, they're VERY quiet.

I've seen the NEC 42", the Fuji 50" and the Hitachi 55" next to each other.....

I prefer the NEC 42", then the Hitachi 55" and then the Fuji 50" ... I know others will probably bash me for saying that I prefer the Hitachi 55" versus the fuji
Consider yourself bashed. ;)

I wondered about others experiences with source material. For example, if you own an upscaling DVD player, have you tried feeding the NEC with a 480i signal, assuming your player can manage that? If so, over what type of connector (HDMI vs other)? What were the results comparing a 480i feed to an upscaled feed from DVDs? I own a Pio 59avi and do plan to try a 480i output via HDMI next time I watch a movie.

I am getting SD and HD video via one of the new HD/SD DISH STBs, model vip211. The 211 is connected to my NEC 50XR5 via HDMI. Last night I was watching a movie on one of the SD HBO channels. I compared the PQ with 480i, 480p, and 1080i signals. 480i was worst and 480p was best with 1080i somewhere in the middle. On the other hand, with an HD signal, 480p might have been a tad less good than 1080i. (I need to do a bit more experimentation to confirm that conclusion.) Since the scuttlebutt is that the deinterlacer/upscaler in the 211 cannot be bypassed, I wonder what the 211 does to an SD signal, which presumably comes in as 480i in the first place. Perhaps it does something not so beneficial, to account for the fact that a straight 480i feed from the box via HDMI of an SD broadcast did not look as good as I might have hoped, given the assumed superiority of the NEC processor vs the DISH processor. 480p had better color saturation, less "clay face". Just wondered whether others have made similar or disparate observations.

For all the NEC owners and those considering the NEC, please note that what follows is a continuing description of my personal experience with NEC's warranty service and their efforts to satisfy their customer. I have what I believe to be an overly noisy panel - something that is the exception among the owners here, not the norm. My original post can be found here:

Earlier Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7137202&&#post7137202)

Well, the local repair shop wasn't able to help with my complaint about the buzz/hum coming from my 50XR5. I got the "according to the manufacturer,they all do that" diagnosis. The tech offered to calibrate one of my inputs at no charge and return the panel to me some time this week. When I asked about NEC's actual response, he said that they thought my smaller room size (12' x 16'), along with the wall mounting, was the reason I was hearing the noise. It was pretty obvious that nothing more would/could be done by the local tech. I told him to call me this week to set up a return date and time.

I then moved up a notch on the warranty chain by contacting NEC directly. They have a very user-friendly portal on their website for opening support tickets. And they actually follow up with prompt e-mail replies and phone calls! After a lot of questions about my room, mounting, and even ceiling height, I finally convinced the engineers (yep, engineers, that got my attention, too) that the noise was, to me, louder than their normally acceptable 20db standard. I also reiterated that the noise didn't become apparent until after I had the unit operating for a couple of weeks.

Seems that NEC is now interested in picking up my unit for testing at their facility. I suggested that the NEC engineer working on my problem might contact the local repair tech to confirm that I'm not being overly sensitive to this noise. He originally agreed with me that the buzz/hum was very noticable, and I don't want to cut him totally out of the loop. You know, the old burnt bridges thing could end up applying here.

It's nice to know that just a few phone calls and e-mails are getting all this attention. So far, the NEC warranty still seems to be a plus. And, I'm thrilled that their engineers actually tried to duplicate my situation in their lab. Now, seeing a potential problem with my panel, they're willing to ship the unit back to their lab for testing. To me, this says a lot for NEC and their products.

But, I'd really rather be putting hundreds of hours on my plasma instead of thousands of miles :rolleyes:

To be continued...

Dave

Have NEC keep yours for testing and send you a brand new model so you're not without.

I wondered about others experiences with source material. For example, if you own an upscaling DVD player, have you tried feeding the NEC with a 480i signal, assuming your player can manage that? If so, over what type of connector (HDMI vs other)? What were the results comparing a 480i feed to an upscaled feed from DVDs? I own a Pio 59avi and do plan to try a 480i output via HDMI next time I watch a movie.

480p over DVI looks better to me than 480i over component. The AVIA grey ramps look better as well. I don't have a player that will output 480i over DVI/HDMI.


I am getting SD and HD video via one of the new HD/SD DISH STBs, model vip211. The 211 is connected to my NEC 50XR5 via HDMI. Last night I was watching a movie on one of the SD HBO channels. I compared the PQ with 480i, 480p, and 1080i signals. 480i was worst and 480p was best with 1080i somewhere in the middle. On the other hand, with an HD signal, 480p might have been a tad less good than 1080i. (I need to do a bit more experimentation to confirm that conclusion.) Since the scuttlebutt is that the deinterlacer/upscaler in the 211 cannot be bypassed, I wonder what the 211 does to an SD signal, which presumably comes in as 480i in the first place. Perhaps it does something not so beneficial, to account for the fact that a straight 480i feed from the box via HDMI of an SD broadcast did not look as good as I might have hoped, given the assumed superiority of the NEC processor vs the DISH processor. 480p had better color saturation, less "clay face". Just wondered whether others have made similar or disparate observations.

Many digital SD sources will be native 480p, so that could explain why 480p looks better. It's also possible that even native 480i sources like broadcast TV are upconverted to 480p over satellite even before making it to your house. In that case, converting them back to 480i in your STB might not look as good as leaving them "native".

I'm not surprised that an HD source looks better at 1080i vs. 480p. Wouldn't you expect it to?

Have NEC keep yours for testing and send you a brand new model so you're not without.

I did bring that very idea up. Unfortunately, as mentioned by another member, they don't have any to ship right now. I'm thinking about delaying this whole process until they have stock :D

Dave

I'm not surprised that an HD source looks better at 1080i vs. 480p. Wouldn't you expect it to?

That depends upon your expectations regarding the NEC processor vs the DISH STB processor. Since I expect the NEC to be far better, it is/was possible that sending 480p from the STB to the NEC and letting the NEC at least do most of the upscaling would be better. The fly in the ointment is that the incoming HD signal is 720p or 1080i in theory (or a watered down version of same, in fact), so the STB may act upon the signal to reduce the resolution to 480p before sending it on to the NEC, in which case I would expect the PQ to suffer. My brief observations suggest that this is what happens, to a small degree. I will have to contact the DISH tech staff to find out what the 211 STB does when receiving an HD signal and set to 480p output. I would bet it does act upon the signal in that case.

That depends upon your expectations regarding the NEC processor vs the DISH STB processor. Since I expect the NEC to be far better, it is/was possible that sending 480p from the STB to the NEC and letting the NEC at least do most of the upscaling would be better. The fly in the ointment is that the incoming HD signal is 720p or 1080i in theory (or a watered down version of same, in fact), so the STB may act upon the signal to reduce the resolution to 480p before sending it on to the NEC, in which case I would expect the PQ to suffer. My brief observations suggest that this is what happens, to a small degree. I will have to contact the DISH tech staff to find out what the 211 STB does when receiving an HD signal and set to 480p output. I would bet it does act upon the signal in that case.

You should allow your STB to decode the signal to it's native resolution if possible. Downconversion will result in significant loss of resolution and that can't be reconstituted once it is lost no matter how good the scaling in the display.

I don't know much about the E* 211, but if it's really that bad get another model.
D* HD STB's go for a song at this point even brand new.

To chime in, I bought the 50XR5 unseen from Chris at Cleveland Plasma and have zero regrets. I can not see the difference between progressive and interlaced using the component outs on my Sony NS50 DVD player, so I'm considering getting a player that outputs 480i on HDMI.

I was waiting for the supply on the Panny 8U series to loosen up, but as I read about the NEC and thought about the extra HDMI input, the price difference seemed reasonable. My Lexicon will never support HDMI switching, current HDMI switchers are expensive and possibly unreliable (spec wars), so I'll switch my HDMI at the set and component in the Lexicon MC4.

I purchased a Maxent 42x3 looking for a good buy on Panny glass. I found the firmware just frustrating, and the colors were best using HDMI. I felt that the quality (and size:) of the display was not in line with the audio system - Lexicon MC4 and Mackie HR624/626 bi-amped monitors.

Now, the display and audio are of similar quality - stunning!

Eye and ear candy. :)

I have an 50" XR5A, was using component input as source from my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR. I have the SA8300 set to passthru and 720P and 1080i resolutions. Everything was working beautifully.

I recently upgraded to the HDMI interface. I'm using a Comprehensive Inc. Ultra High Resolution HDMI-HDMI HDCP compliant cable 10'. Now the SA box is set to AutoHDMI/DVI. I have notice now switching from channels that are 1080i to 720p occasionally I will get snow on the display. Switching to other channels still produces snow. I can't seem to eliminate the snow unless I power off the XR5A. This makes me think that it is the XR5A. This is an intermittant problem, I can't seem to isolate it to the SA 8300. Anyone else experiencing this? I'm told either the cable is good or bad.

eyecatcher127, how interesting.... I sometimes get snow too. I never asked anybody else about this...I just always attributed the probelm with the SA8300HD or Cox Cable, not the NEC. My experience is different than yours, though. After I change the channel, I see snow for about 2 seconds before the image comes up. It's odd to see snow in HD.

And it's not very common.. probably happens to me at most once a week. Only on HD channels. I haven't figured out if it happens on certain resolutions, or if I'm changing from one resolution to the next. I'll pay more attention to it next time.

(1) You should allow your STB to decode the signal to it's native resolution if possible.
(2) I don't know much about the E* 211, but if it's really that bad get another model.
D* HD STB's go for a song at this point even brand new.

(1) Whose native resolution are you referring to? The DISH STB is incapable of generating the native rez of the NEC, if that's what you mean. (I'm sure you know that; hence my question.) And of course I know that would be preferable if available. After another night of fooling around, I am back to setting my 211 at 1080i over HDMI. On average this gives the best results on HD and is pretty good on SD too. I have ordered a set of component cables, just to see if it is any better than HDMI, after reading the latest issue of TPV where their guru found many problems with HDMI connections from DVD players to a Vizio plasma.
(2) The 211 is one of two brand new products just introduced in Feb by DISH. By all accounts it has a far better processor than any preceding DISH STB. There is a sister product, the 622, which is just now becoming available. The 622 apparently has the same HD tuner as the 211, but it also has an extra SD-only built-in tuner plus a large capacity DVR. Those two are the latest and greatest from DISH and are the only two that will permit one to receive MPEG4 programming, which is also being introduced by DISH. (This is why you see low prices on older DISH STB models.) I never meant to imply that the 211 is "bad". If it were I would not be so thrilled with the NEC plasma.

I have an 50" XR5A, was using component input as source from my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR. I have the SA8300 set to passthru and 720P and 1080i resolutions. Everything was working beautifully.

I recently upgraded to the HDMI interface. I'm using a Comprehensive Inc. Ultra High Resolution HDMI-HDMI HDCP compliant cable 10'. Now the SA box is set to AutoHDMI/DVI. I have notice now switching from channels that are 1080i to 720p occasionally I will get snow on the display. Switching to other channels still produces snow. I can't seem to eliminate the snow unless I power off the XR5A. This makes me think that it is the XR5A. This is an intermittant problem, I can't seem to isolate it to the SA 8300. Anyone else experiencing this? I'm told either the cable is good or bad.


I have the SA8300 as well and have not encountered this issue at all. I am leaning towards it being a STB issue and not the NEC. I would have comcast come out and try another box first. I know this problem occured in the first couple months of the HDTIVO from DirecTV. It turned out to be bad HDMI boards that were used and has since been corrected. Could be a similar problem....

I also have the SA8300 and I've not encountered that problem. There have been some minor quirks since I switched to HDMI, but all of those are normally solved by just changing the channel once and then everything is fine.

I'm using Cablevision in NY. I'll try to leave it on the channel longer to see if it locks in. switching to other channels doesn't seem to help. If I switch the input source on the NEC to another and back it locks the picture again. I did a cold boot on the SA8300 and still was able to recreate it last night. I'll have to troubleshoot it some more. HDMI PQ looks a little better than the component so I'd like to use it and the cable was expensive so just a little annoying for now. I'm going to contact cablevision to see if they can help.

I'm using Cablevision in NY. I'll try to leave it on the channel longer to see if it locks in. switching to other channels doesn't seem to help. If I switch the input source on the NEC to another and back it locks the picture again. I did a cold boot on the SA8300 and still was able to recreate it last night. I'll have to troubleshoot it some more. HDMI PQ looks a little better than the component so I'd like to use it and the cable was expensive so just a little annoying for now. I'm going to contact cablevision to see if they can help.

You might try another HDMI cable. These digital connections can be quirky. I had an intermittent problem with my DVD player for over a year that I attributed to the player but when I switched the DVI cable for another reason poof the problem was gone and hasn't returned.

(1) Whose native resolution are you referring to? The DISH STB is incapable of generating the native rez of the NEC, if that's what you mean. (I'm sure you know that; hence my question.) And of course I know that would be preferable if available. After another night of fooling around, I am back to setting my 211 at 1080i over HDMI. On average this gives the best results on HD and is pretty good on SD too. I have ordered a set of component cables, just to see if it is any better than HDMI, after reading the latest issue of TPV where their guru found many problems with HDMI connections from DVD players to a Vizio plasma.

The native resolution of the source signal. For example, ABC HD is 720p, CBS is 1080i, SD channels may be 480i or 480p and so on. The STB shouldn't do any real "scaling". What it's doing is decoding the signal either from MPEG4, MPEG2, ATSC, NTSC, or what have you. Hopefully, you have a setting on the STB called "native" or "passthru" or maybe "all signals" which will simply decode the signal and send it to the display at the native resolution of the original signal. Then the display will scale the signal to 768p which is the panel's native resolution. However, if you don't have this setting and only are able to select a particular resolution i.e. 1080i then the signal will be decoded first and then scaled/processed to that selected resolution by the STB (unless it is 1080i native in which case no scaling is necessary). If that's the case you will have to manually switch the resolution on the STB to match the incoming signal if you don't want the STB to scale/process the signal. This is a pain and is why a passthru mode is important.


(2) The 211 is one of two brand new products just introduced in Feb by DISH. By all accounts it has a far better processor than any preceding DISH STB. There is a sister product, the 622, which is just now becoming available. The 622 apparently has the same HD tuner as the 211, but it also has an extra SD-only built-in tuner plus a large capacity DVR. Those two are the latest and greatest from DISH and are the only two that will permit one to receive MPEG4 programming, which is also being introduced by DISH. (This is why you see low prices on older DISH STB models.) I never meant to imply that the 211 is "bad". If it were I would not be so thrilled with the NEC plasma.

It sounds like you probably have just as good or better STB as any of us. I'd be surprised if it doesn't have a passthru mode. I tried to download the manual twice from the E* website but it wouldn't load. Sorry.

The native resolution of the source signal. For example, ABC HD is 720p, CBS is 1080i, SD channels may be 480i or 480p and so on. The STB shouldn't do any real "scaling". What it's doing is decoding the signal either from MPEG4, MPEG2, ATSC, NTSC, or what have you. Hopefully, you have a setting on the STB called "native" or "passthru" or maybe "all signals" which will simply decode the signal and send it to the display at the native resolution of the original signal. Then the display will scale the signal to 768p which is the panel's native resolution. However, if you don't have this setting and only are able to select a particular resolution i.e. 1080i then the signal will be decoded first and then scaled/processed to that selected resolution by the STB (unless it is 1080i native in which case no scaling is necessary). If that's the case you will have to manually switch the resolution on the STB to match the incoming signal if you don't want the STB to scale/process the signal. This is a pain and is why a passthru mode is important.


Dear Mr. cpcat, This is what I have been saying all along. The DISH STBs have NO passthru or "native" capability. One cannot bypass the built-in processor, and yes the box does have a processor. I had a long conversation with a DISH technician on this subject. (That's why I asked about Directv and/or cable STBs, a few days ago.) So, if one wanted to be a purist, one would have to first of all know what is being broadcast (SD at 480i vs 480p or HD at 720p or 1080i) and then be willing to re-set the processor output in the STB to match. As you say, and as I have said above, this is a pain. It's probably worth doing, if one can get the necessary information and if one is watching a movie, for example. For flipping channels, I have now standardized on the 1080i setting.

Cpcat;

In an earlier posting (#1394) I posted a link to a review of the latest Dish 622 box which is supposed to be much like the 211's decoders plust it is a DVR. This review reads like a manual. I think much of what you have been trying to get from Dish is there in the 'review'. I went over to this thread and it is true, Dish does not have Native Pass-through. the review is real good, though.

The DISH STBs have NO passthru or "native" capability. .

Unfortunate. I hope they wise up for the upcoming models. If you want to "set it and forget it", I'd say look at both 720p and 1080i and see what you like better.

If you are asking me to compare the 50XR4 to the 50XR5, I haven't a clue. Perhaps someone else can answer this one. All that I have read on this forum would suggest that the 50XR5 is a great leap forward in most respects. What I was trying to say is that the 50XR5 IS silver (as well as black).

I own the XR4. According to the manufacturer there is zero picture quality difference between the XR4 and XR5. Furthermore, the manufacturer states that there may not be any improvement to picture quality until the generation after the next generation (e.g., XR7).

Does anyone have any information to the contrary?

I own the XR4. According to the manufacturer there is zero picture quality difference between the XR4 and XR5. Furthermore, the manufacturer states that there may not be any improvement to picture quality until the generation after the next generation (e.g., XR7).

Does anyone have any information to the contrary?

Hey ghileman,

Just wondering where you got the information from when you say "according to the manufacturer", cause even the spec sheets list various improvements to color filters, video processing, etc. I think Bob Doseck of plasma concepts has both the 50XR4 and the 50XR5 for which he stated their is, and I quote "quite an improvement". I'm not saying the XR4 isn't a great panel, cause I've seen them and they are exceptional, just wondering where you got the info...

just to edit...I do recall something about NEC indicating the glass was not upgraded since last year, but I don't think that equates to the entire pdp...

I own the XR4. According to the manufacturer there is zero picture quality difference between the XR4 and XR5. Furthermore, the manufacturer states that there may not be any improvement to picture quality until the generation after the next generation (e.g., XR7).

Does anyone have any information to the contrary?

Hard to imagine they would say that even if it was true.
If so, their marketing department needs to be shuffled.

why? for telling the truth? if there is no difference in PQ between the 4 and 5, they should be commended for conceding that fact in public

or are you saying its not true?

(i still haven't bought anything yet, in case you're wondering :)

You can't even say that all XR4's have the same PQ... hell wasn't the 50XR4 *last* year's model, and this year's 42XR4 has improved technology over last year. The statement of the representative of the manufacturer is nonsense.

Plus, the size of the plasma and resolution do have an effect on PQ, so to base PQ on the suffix of the model sounds like sales speak to me.

why? for telling the truth? if there is no difference in PQ between the 4 and 5, they should be commended for conceding that fact in public

or are you saying its not true?

(i still haven't bought anything yet, in case you're wondering :)

Where do you live, Oz maybe?

When have you ever seen a new model anything come out and not have some supposed improvement? That in itself negates the original statement. Even if I knew nothing about plasma tv I could still have this conversation.

I have no idea about this plasma or others, but you are not suggestion that every model increment in a product automaticaly is gauranteed to actually have somekind of significant improvement are you? companies constantly release marginally incremented products under new model numbers in order to drive sales.

and if the manufacturer is saying they did this (NEC) then why would you doubt them?

This is sort of a silly argument, but your statement makes no sense.

If a manufacturer comes out with a new model in order to drive sales, do you think that the manufacturer would then say that the new model offers no improvement over the old one? I would tend to think a statement like that might inhibit sales.

Furthermore, if this actually did happen then cpcat is correct, the sales guys should be fired. It makes no business sense whatsoever.

Had my NEC 42XM2 for nearly 3 years now and the thing is still drop dead gorgeous !!!

HD and Olympics are fantastic. I use a HD DirecTIVO and Zenith 318-B upscaling DVD player.

The NEC is still the best plasma even now.

I saw the newest Mitsubishi and it looked marvelous. Walked up to it and realised it's a rebadged NEC.

Way to go NEC, still hanging in there and making new fans everyday.

Thanks all.

The thing to realize is that with most of these forum postings there is no substantial prrof of anything.One guy is saying that that is what he heard but how reliable is that. I throw it in the hersay pile until there is a majority consensus or hard evidence. Why do we even waste our time discussing this?

________________
Aziz! Light!


That's one of my favourite testing scenes... great DVD the Fifth Element special Edition ..... that scene/chapter looks almost 3D on the new NEC 42" ....

Can we see some more pics of this TV in action?

:)

I believe this information to be false, false, and false. Compare the old PDF to the new PDF and there are a ton of changes in these models. There it is in writing below, enjoy.

Last years models HERE (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/documents/ColorBrochures/NEC080448.pdf)
The new models HERE (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/documents/ColorBrochures/NEC100519.pdf)

Every year something is changed good or bad for that matter. Look at the new Panasonic 60U for example, this is a consumer tv piece and they took away the cablecard slot. They will be selling a lot less of those.

why? for telling the truth? if there is no difference in PQ between the 4 and 5, they should be commended for conceding that fact in public

or are you saying its not true?

(i still haven't bought anything yet, in case you're wondering :)

Seems like sharpie is more confused now than ever . He still has n't made a decision about a panel. He can n't easily eliminate NEC . He is trying to make his decision easier by such statements.
Fujitsu is a great panel, if you can somehow bring that price down.

Well, after months of following the progress of this NEC forum, I had all but decided to make my purchase of the 50xr5. Yesterday, however, I had a bit of a wrench thrown in my plans. I visited one of my local retailers who was having a demo of Blu-Ray and ended up being offered an unbelievable deal on the Pioneer Elite PRO-1130HD. I understand that I can't mention specific pricing, but I can say that the price offered to me was only $200 more than what Cleveland Plasma sells the 50xr5 at delivered. So, for those of you familiar with that pricing, you will be able to tell how outstanding a deal this is. The deal is for a new Plasma in the box from an authorized local Elite dealer. They are also offering me 0% financing for 24 months.

So, we all know how wonderful the NEC is and the Elite has an outstanding reputation as well. With that being said, would most of you pick the Elite at that small a price differential? I have to pull the trigger today on the Elite, so I'd really appreciate all of your opinions.

Thanks again to everyone in this forum! You have all been of enormous help in my Plasma quest!

Oh, I should probably add that one of the reasons for this discount, is that I'm buying 2 Plasmas.

I think an 1130HD over the NEC would be a given, as good as the NEC is :D

I think an 1130HD over the NEC would be a given, as good as the NEC is :D

it boils down to if you want a separate media receiver. The PQ are equivalent between the two. Pio 1130 may have a slight edge on brightness.

NEC has better black levels as well as colors. Just looking at the specs...

I believe retailers usually have a higher margin on Pios and therefore they have an incentive to sell Pios and are set up in stores to attact buyers. Pio in support of their retail sales is very likely to quit or at the very least de-emphasize their commercial sales.

The biggest problem is that you have to buy the NEC unseen. However, I own one and it is a fantastic set. Except for aesthetic reasons I would not pick an Elite over the NEC XR5.

it boils down to if you want a separate media receiver. The PQ are equivalent between the two. Pio 1130 may have a slight edge on brightness.

I have no problem with the seperate media receiver... actually, I kind of like the idea as it will allow for fewer direct connections to the Plasma and a much more streamlined look on the Plasma stand.

That's good to know... not being able to see the NEC is a drawback, but I do have faith in what I've read here from you good folks. Another drawback, is that I really do like Chris over at Cleveland Plasma. He's a terriffic guy and has responded to my repeated inquiries with the kind of service that is second to none.

All things being equal, I think the Elite is probably a better plasma for a variety of reasons. Black levels are exceptional and, while the NECs is also fantastic in this area, I do think the Elite has a slight edge.

Arrgh! Decisions!

There's a reason Pioneer bought NEC.

The NEC is better.

Has Pioneer incorporated NEC guts into all their lines yet?

There's a reason Pioneer bought NEC.

I spoke with the Pioneer Elite VP of US sales yesterday and she explained to me that the purchase of NEC was because they have a much more efficent glass manufacturing process that pioneer wanted. To sum it up, NEC developed a method to produce large panes of glass that could then be cut into smaller, plasma-sized pieces. Previous to this, Pioneer had to manufacture the glass individually for each display. This process enabled Pioneer to produce higher quality glass at a lower cost and in larger quantities.

If you can get a Pio Elite for a good deal, I would go for it. The NEC beats the Pioneer in almost every area except for color banding. Unfortunately, that's what I care most about....

I loved the NEC but ended up returning it and will likely get a Pioneer. I kept seeing color banding in the NEC that I just couldn't get past. It was a VERY hard decision because I absolutely loved the NEC in every other regard. I just posted further details in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7244395&&#post7244395

By the way, I have to give props to Plasma Concepts for making my purchase and return a wonderful hassle free experience. They lived up to their "PC Promise" where you get a full return less shipping charges and gave me absolutely no flack for wanting to return it. In my book, they are the way to go for buying a NEC online.

I loved the NEC but ended up returning it and will likely get a Pioneer. I kept seeing color banding in the NEC that I just couldn't get past.

That was one of my concerns about the NEC. I, too, am very sensitive to these kinds of issues. My Mitsubish CRT RPTV has really spoiled me in these areas. However, before I had it ISF calibrated, I could barely stand to watch it.

Sometimes is actually sucks being a videophile.

Sometimes is actually sucks being a videophile.


Indeed... Ignorance can be bliss.
The fact that my wife notices NOTHING wrong with any picutre... artifacting, MB, banding, whatever... means that just about any PQ is fantastic!

Ah... were our world so simple.

Conversely, her heart doesn't skip a beat on a drop-dead PQ. What a shame. ;)

cheers

shane

So, we all know how wonderful the NEC is and the Elite has an outstanding reputation as well. With that being said, would most of you pick the Elite at that small a price differential? I have to pull the trigger today on the Elite, so I'd really appreciate all of your opinions.

Thanks again to everyone in this forum! You have all been of enormous help in my Plasma quest!

Oh, I should probably add that one of the reasons for this discount, is that I'm buying 2 Plasmas.

How about getting one of each then? :)

That'd be great for us.

The 1130HD adds speakers as well as a tuner, too, doesn't it? The NEC processing is top notch, but Pio has always had a rep for good processing as well. Hard choice. Assuming the Pio now has blacks equal to Panasonic, they might be a smidge better than NEC. Don't think you'll go wrong either way.

Re: banding on the NEC. Overall I see less false contouring with the NEC now than when I was using the Lumagen HDP video processor running NR and 1:1. That's pretty good performance. The AVIA horizontal grey ramp is very smooth as well. I guess there's always better, though, and maybe the Pio could be. Could be worse, too.

Hi Guys,

Great info on the NEC.

One question though, how loud is the fan noise? Is it noticable when it kicks in?

I think I can help! I have both brand new pioneer and NEC in my possesion.

I'm working on a comparison between the Pioneer 505cmx (commercial version of the Elite) and the new NEC XR5 elsewhere in this section. I have the Key Digital HD Explorer card for the Pioneer to get my HDMI. I am using an NAD T-534 w/ HDMI out and 1080i upconversion as the DVD player. I have the NEC brand new in a box, I just need to bring it upstairs. I have only gotten to see the Pioneer so far. My first impression is that I have never seen a DVD look better on a plasma. This includes last years NEC 50's. No contest.

I
I'm working on a comparison between the Pioneer 505cmx (commercial version of the Elite) and the new NEC XR5 elsewhere in this section.

I'm fairly certain the 505cmx uses the 5th gen. Pio glass. The 1130 uses 6th gen. which is touted as having better blacks.

^^^^ CPCAT as always you are right on the money.

Although there have been some comments about fan noise I have never heard any unless my head was listening behind the panel. There is no fan noise as far as I am concerned. Steve

Being a West Coast Boy married to a Mid-Western girl who considers a home to be not natural without some gizmo like a fan on all of the time, take it from me: The NEC has no fan issues!

I'm fairly certain the 505cmx uses the 5th gen. Pio glass. The 1130 uses 6th gen. which is touted as having better blacks.

I have seen both the Elite and 505cmx up close and personal. As a result I immediately stopped caring about which glass the 505cmx has, because I am convinced the the setup I'm currently testing (505 + KDigital card) looks better than the Elite regardless. Not by much mind you. Though I do admit I like the aesthetics of the Elite a little more. I've also talked to people who were positive it had 5G glass and people postive it had 6G glass. To be honest I don't know what glass it has, I wasn't there when they made them. Either way, from what I have seen with my own eyes the NEC has it's work cut out for it, and the 505cmx w/ the Key Digital card is an absolute stunner, and is the best out there right now from what I've seen. I got a whole day off tomorrow and I get to play with plasmas, yay.

I have seen both the Elite and 505cmx up close and personal. As a result I immediately stopped caring about which glass the 505cmx has, because I am convinced the the setup I'm currently testing (505 + KDigital card) looks better than the Elite regardless. Not by much mind you. Though I do admit I like the aesthetics of the Elite a little more. I've also talked to people who were positive it had 5G glass and people postive it had 6G glass. To be honest I don't know what glass it has, I wasn't there when they made them.

Assuming you are referring to the 1130HD Pioneer Elite, it has 6th generation glass and you can confirm that by going to Pioneer's website.

I know the 1130 does. I was actually refering to the cmx. I can see by my post it may have been confusing. Sorry, it was late. :) The point was if they have indeed have different glass in them, the difference wasn't all that noticable in my opinion.

How about getting one of each then? :)

That'd be great for us.

The 1130HD adds speakers as well as a tuner, too, doesn't it? The NEC processing is top notch, but Pio has always had a rep for good processing as well. Hard choice. Assuming the Pio now has blacks equal to Panasonic, they might be a smidge better than NEC. Don't think you'll go wrong either way.

Re: banding on the NEC. Overall I see less false contouring with the NEC now than when I was using the Lumagen HDP video processor running NR and 1:1. That's pretty good performance. The AVIA horizontal grey ramp is very smooth as well. I guess there's always better, though, and maybe the Pio could be. Could be worse, too.

I've spoken to a number of video processor officianados and they claim that the processor has little to do with the banding at all, its at the display level. I've asked sme folks at Fuji about this while researching that display and they confirmed it as well. So its really got nothing to do with your Lumagen. Its either a source issue or a display issue, not a processing issue.

I've spoken to a number of video processor officianados and they claim that the processor has little to do with the banding at all, its at the display level. I've asked sme folks at Fuji about this while researching that display and they confirmed it as well. So its really got nothing to do with your Lumagen. Its either a source issue or a display issue, not a processing issue.

If the processor has no effect, why would it be significantly less without it?

The AVIA grey ramps are clearly smoother without it as well.

I have less false contouring now than with the VP in the loop (and believe me, I tried hard with it). There's also less than with my TH-50PX50U. Dithering seems to be less as well. Like I said, there's always better and maybe the Pio will perform even better in this regard. If that's the way you're headed, don't let me stand in your way. I'm sure you'll have an excellent pdp either way.

I've been experimenting with the "bright" picture mode. It seems to provide dynamic contrast enhancement (DCE) if I'm not mistaken. That's a nice way of saying it floats the black level. Anyway, it seems to lower the black level some overall. I've not seen any negatives yet, but in theory it might produce "shifting blacks" like on the Panasonics. I was never bothered by this but some are so this may not be for everyone. Anyone else try it yet? Here are the settings I came up with (using HDMI, set to "high" in setup menu).

Contrast 49
Brt 36
color 30
tint 32
NR 2
color temp mid low
*GR43
*GG37
*GB37
*BR40
*BG40
*BB40
Cinema on
Pic Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low tone auto
Setup level (pedestal) 0
Color tune all default

I rechecked the AVIA horizontal grey ramp and it has remained smooth. ;)

cpcat, those settings do look good to me as well.

Hey ghileman,

Just wondering where you got the information from when you say "according to the manufacturer", cause even the spec sheets list various improvements to color filters, video processing, etc. I think Bob Doseck of plasma concepts has both the 50XR4 and the 50XR5 for which he stated their is, and I quote "quite an improvement". I'm not saying the XR4 isn't a great panel, cause I've seen them and they are exceptional, just wondering where you got the info...

just to edit...I do recall something about NEC indicating the glass was not upgraded since last year, but I don't think that equates to the entire pdp...

My information comes from someone in NEC's plasma technical support department.

That's interesting that someone says there is a big improvement to PQ between the two. It would certainly be great if that is true. Not to call into question the person at Plasma Concepts, but they do have a financial interest in asserting that PQ improved between the two models.

Can anyone else affirm that and explain why that is the case? The person I spoke with at NEC said that the only things that had changed between the two models are a) the addition of the HDMI inputs and b) some additional menu control features.

My information comes from someone in NEC's plasma technical support department.

.

Is this via email? If so, please provide a copy of the correspondence letter as I and others here have when dealing with NEC tech support. The email will include a confirmatory link to your correspondence with NEC if it's genuine.

It's difficult to imagine how 1080p support could have been added without any internal modification.

My theory still stands one lone person at nec that says the PQ has not improved does not mean anything. IF U were to call about 10 different Nec people I would prob get different results.

Also how would someone from tech support who is not an engineer know anything about the details involved in the PQ of a display

cpcat

I've been experimenting with the "bright" picture mode. It seems to provide dynamic contrast enhancement (DCE).

Your bright setting is very close to almost the same- for my Bright setting. For bright afternoons. I am still working on -Cable images- for normal light in afternoons. The cable broadcasts seem to be different each day- so some tweaking comes into play. I was watch GOLF in HD on sunday and looked like S$$#$#. Then went to the pre oscar HD show- Jessica Alba- was stunning...

Can someone tell me how to save the picture settings in a profile so i can change then at any time of day. I know where to set them at they just seem to go away after i change them.

Can someone tell me how to save the picture settings in a profile so i can change then at any time of day. I know where to set them at they just seem to go away after i change them.

If I remember correctly, when you have the memory title highlighted on the top (i.e Memory 4) hit enter. then it takes you to a screen with the signal info, etc. you can hit save settings I believe from there. You can also put in a specific name for it as well.

Maybe someone at home right now can confirm the above.....

Can someone tell me how to save the picture settings in a profile so i can change then at any time of day. I know where to set them at they just seem to go away after i change them.

Once you have the memory set like you want it, highlight "memory 1" or whichever memory it is and press enter. You then scroll over to "set" and press enter again. At that point the memory is saved and when you return to that input it will automatically be selected again. You can do this with multiple memories (up to 6 I think) and then manually select them at will as well.

Is this via email? If so, please provide a copy of the correspondence letter as I and others here have when dealing with NEC tech support. The email will include a confirmatory link to your correspondence with NEC if it's genuine.

It's difficult to imagine how 1080p support could have been added without any internal modification.

I spoke with someone on the phone. Here is the phone number in case anyone else wants to call to confirm: (800) 284-4484.

Rather than trying to imagine, can anyone explain what technical modifications have been made to improve PQ between the XR4 and XR5? Is it possible that people's eyes are deceiving them?

I spoke with someone on the phone. Here is the phone number in case anyone else wants to call to confirm: (800) 284-4484.

Rather than trying to imagine, can anyone explain what technical modifications have been made to improve PQ between the XR4 and XR5? Is it possible that people's eyes are deceiving them?

Why are you posing this question? Do you already own a 50XR4 and are you wanting to know whether you should spend the bucks to buy a new 50XR5? If so, your concern is legitimate, and you should definitely not make a move until you can either view a 50XR5 to compare it to your 50XR4 or until you can confirm that the information you received over the phone is incorrect. If you don't own either set, then the only issue is whether the XR5 meets your standards for PQ and features. (It's plainly evident from all available information that the XR5 does have some advanced features compared to the XR4, whether or not the two share the same glass.) As for me, I am so blown away by the XR5 that I could not care less whether it is the same as or different from the previous model. What I don't have is fan noise, banding, image retention, or any of the other real or imagined problems that are the bane of anal retentives. Also, after many hours of pre-purchase viewing of Pioneer, Panasonic, and Fujitsu plasmas, I feel comfortable that the NEC is not less than as good as the best of those.

If you read the pdfs as Chris from Cleveland Plasmas suggests, you will see that the most significant improvement regarding picture quality is for the 42XR4 only, in which the brightness and contrast are improved 100% and 200%, respectively. The improvements on the 50 inchers are not that dramatic. Someone had speculated earlier in this thread that the 50XR5 must have been a great leap forward over last year's model based on the positive responses from the forum. I believe the great leap forward is, simply, the increased number of new NEC owners that resulted from the Panny shortage.

I spoke with someone on the phone. Here is the phone number in case anyone else wants to call to confirm: (800) 284-4484.

Rather than trying to imagine, can anyone explain what technical modifications have been made to improve PQ between the XR4 and XR5? Is it possible that people's eyes are deceiving them?

Either you spoke to someone of knowledge at NEC or you didn't. If you are certain of your source, what's the point in posing your question to us? AFAIK, no one who posts here works for NEC so you won't get any more authoratative answers here. If you want to be helpful to the thread, put in an email to NEC like I suggested (through the NEC website) and post your answer here. That way, the information will be credible and confirmable and there won't be any further debate necessary.

Here's the link to one of my prior emails to NEC: http://www.necvisualsystems.com/SupportCenter/SupportTracker/SearchIssue/?track_id=5625&email=cpcat@2geton.net

Edit: I did call NEC @ 1-800-836-0655 and was told the glass on the 50XR5 is the same as the 50XR4 but that improvements in contrast over last years model had been made as well as the addition of 1080p input support. The changes were made internally. This really isn't anything new to almost all of us here. Also, from a quick comparison of the spec sheets, it would appear this year's model adds motion adaptive deinterlacing (a pretty big deal) over last years model as well as "enhanced" mass area sampling (not sure about that one). If I recall, we have discussed that already earlier in the thread. I think there were a few other differences as well. The specs are available for anyone who wants to compare the two at nec's website. I'll put in an email to NEC and try to post something more official as well to put this to rest.

If you read the pdfs as Chris from Cleveland Plasmas suggests, you will see that the most significant improvement regarding picture quality is for the 42XR4 only, in which the brightness and contrast are improved 100% and 200%, respectively. The improvements on the 50 inchers are not that dramatic.

I'd call the addition of motion adaptive deinterlacing (as opposed to simple bob deinterlacing) a significant improvement. I'm assuming this is what's referred to in the spec sheet as "motion adaptive 3D scan conversion". For 1080i sources, one method effectively loses half the vertical resolution and the other does not.

Other differences from comparison of the spec sheets include "enhanced" mass area sampling, "enhanced" Digital AccuDevice, and the addition of "multi-field noise reduction".

Don't forget the addition of 1080p input support for analog outputs.

Hi,

Thank you for contacting NEC! We did improve the scan conversion and noise reduction which will improve video quality overall.



Best Regards,
Michael Szarmach
NEC VSD Customer Service
Ph# 1-800-836-0655
Fax # 1-800-356-2415
www.necvisualsystems.com



-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:04 PM
To: VSD Salesinfo
Subject: Question regarding picture quality between NEC 50-XR4 and XR5


Hello,



I phoned NEC’s technical support department the other day to find out whether or not picture quality has improved between these two models. I was told by the NEC employee that I spoke to that it had not. However, on avsforum.net I am hearing reports to the contrary. Can you confirm whether or not this is true?



Thanks.

I have installed and setup many of last years models, and have spent a significant amount of time in front of them. I am in the process of evaluating the current 50" version and I can say with confidence that is indeed an improved unit regarding overall PQ. This is of course my humble opinion and take it for what it's worth.

Hi,

Thank you for contacting NEC! We did improve the scan conversion and noise reduction which will improve video quality overall.



Best Regards,
Michael Szarmach
NEC VSD Customer Service
Ph# 1-800-836-0655
Fax # 1-800-356-2415
www.necvisualsystems.com



.

Thanks Heir ghileman. :) :)

That would seem to jive with what I've surmised (see above) from comparing the specs as well.

It's a nice set (the XR5). I set up my older Sony WE610 50 inch RP lcd in my kids' playroom today. My visual memory at times has been telling me "hey, the plasmas may have more picture noise overall than the RP lcd did" Now that I have both technologies up and running again I can compare them directly in real time. Most if not all of the noise I'm seeing I see on both sets and thus is probably source related. This confirms what I've suspected, but it helps to be able to see it with my own eyes. The AVIA horizontal grey ramp is a tad smoother on the lcd. This may be due to the analog color processing of lcd.

Of course, the plasma improves upon the PQ in many other areas (blacks, shadow detail, 3-dimensionality, viewing angle). No buyer's remorse here. :cool:

If the processor has no effect, why would it be significantly less without it?

The AVIA grey ramps are clearly smoother without it as well.

I have less false contouring now than with the VP in the loop (and believe me, I tried hard with it). There's also less than with my TH-50PX50U. Dithering seems to be less as well. Like I said, there's always better and maybe the Pio will perform even better in this regard. If that's the way you're headed, don't let me stand in your way. I'm sure you'll have an excellent pdp either way.

Maybe you're right. FWIW I have seen it on the Fujitsu as well. The Pioneer Elite I think is the only one that doesn't have it or at least has it much less noticably.

I noticed the latest issue of 'Consumer Reports' did a thing on plasmas...and forgot NEC.

Either you spoke to someone of knowledge at NEC or you didn't. If you are certain of your source, what's the point in posing your question to us? AFAIK, no one who posts here works for NEC so you won't get any more authoratative answers here. If you want to be helpful to the thread, put in an email to NEC like I suggested (through the NEC website) and post your answer here. That way, the information will be credible and confirmable and there won't be any further debate necessary.

Here's the link to one of my prior emails to NEC: http://www.necvisualsystems.com/SupportCenter/SupportTracker/SearchIssue/?track_id=5625&email=cpcat@2geton.net

Edit: I did call NEC @ 1-800-836-0655 and was told the glass on the 50XR5 is the same as the 50XR4 but that improvements in contrast over last years model had been made as well as the addition of 1080p input support. The changes were made internally. This really isn't anything new to almost all of us here. Also, from a quick comparison of the spec sheets, it would appear this year's model adds motion adaptive deinterlacing (a pretty big deal) over last years model as well as "enhanced" mass area sampling (not sure about that one). If I recall, we have discussed that already earlier in the thread. I think there were a few other differences as well. The specs are available for anyone who wants to compare the two at nec's website. I'll put in an email to NEC and try to post something more official as well to put this to rest.

Cpcat: I think that the NEC's had the motion adaptive deinterlacing the year before but "enhanced" it (whatever that means) for this year's models. The same is true for mass area sampling. For what it is worth, Panny made similar claims with this year's models ("enhancing" both features). My guess is that all of these manufacturers use similar IC's from 3rd. party sources. When the OEM suppliers of the IC's improve their products each year, they simply incorporate them into their own designs and tweak them to match their specific design criteria and preferences (i.e. tastes). This is especially true when comparing products at similar price points.

I have been using my Sony NS50 w/out progressive because it looks better. So I bought a refurbed Sony DVP-NS975V DVD player on Amazon to see if 480i via HDMI looked better than 480i via component cables.

I'm not sure yet if 480i looks better via HDMI than component. But the surprise for me was that upscaling to 1080i looks much better. I was surprised, since I assumed the scaler in the NEC was better than the one in the Sony.

So now, of course, I'm wondering how good the Oppo might look.. oh, these experiments get expensive..

The first time I saw IR from watching a DVD w/subtitles, I got pretty concerned. After I learned how to to access the service menu and find the number of hours (at that point, 25), I decided to speed up the process and do it in a safe manner.

I switched to an unused HDMI input. To play it really safe, I turned off all video sources, so if the set power cycled and swithed inputs, it would still have no source. There was a light gray to the screen and I kept it on while sleeping and when out of the house.

I'm now up over 100 hours and IR is definitely not as sensitive.

This seems to be a fast, safe way to get some hours. I figured if they want you to use gray bars instead of black, gray was a reasonable thing to display and easy to generate.