jsf,

If you'll look at the specs, motion adaptive isn't mentioned at all for the 50XR4. I doubt they would have simply omitted this as it's a very good selling point. Simple bob deinterlacing is probably present in half or so of current digital displays. It still looks pretty good. I'd almost guarantee that's what's done in my older Sony lcd RP and I've never complained. See the latest issue of Home Theatre for an article on this and there's a thread here discussing it as well. In addition, the email reply above from NEC does mention the improvement in "scan conversion" on this year's model. Again, email NEC if you want, but from the info we currently have I believe I am correct. It appears correct that a couple of the other features were "enhanced". In addition the multi-field noise reduction was added and this was also mentioned in the above email from NEC.

50XR4 specs:http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/documents/ColorBrochures/NEC080448.pdf



50XR5 specs:http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/documents/ColorBrochures/NEC100519.pdf

I understand your point, Cpcat. But, if you look closely at the Home Theatre Magazine article, I believe that you'll notice that most, if not all, plasmas didn't bob. (I'm working from memory on this issue as I accidentally threw out the 2 issues that contained Gary's articles on this subject.) As we all know, plasmas are the high-end of the HD spectrum (along with LCD) and I'm guessing that manufacturers recognized the need to include their best features in their plasma offerings. Moreover, NEC has always been a leader in implementing newer and better electronics in their displays. I have a hard time believing that they were a laggard with motion adaptive deinterlacing a year ago, especially as their products already featured 4,096 steps of gradation (Gamma 12). I suspect that they didn't "tout" the motion adaptive issue because it didn't separate them from their competition in the plasma arena at the time. After Home Theatre Magazine's article, perhaps all the manufacturers are more sensitive to this issue. The absurdity of it all is that the motion adaptive IC chipset is VERY inexpensive and the technology is easily implemented by manufacturers.

Regardless, all manufacturers improve their products each year in some fashion. But, I also believe that revolutionary changes from year to year happen much less frequently than the manufacturers would have us believe. After all, they're in the business of trying to sell you the latest and greatest products. If they don't trumpet differences, they know it will be hard to motivate consumers to buy the newest offerings.

P.S. I honestly don't care enough about this issue to bother calling NEC about it and suspect that no one else does either. Now that I am saying that, I'm laughing at myself for even bothering to take the time to comment on this matter again. I'm sure you feel the same way.

Moreover, NEC has always been a leader in implementing newer and better electronics in their displays. The absurdity of it all is that the motion adaptive IC chipset is VERY inexpensive and the technology is easily implemented by manufacturers.


P.S. I honestly don't care enough about this issue to bother calling NEC about it and suspect that no one else does either. Now that I am saying that, I'm laughing at myself for even bothering to take the time to comment on this matter again. I'm sure you feel the same way.

Don't worry, I'm over my brief period of argumentativeness. I'm been working on that. :)

It's worth discussing, though. I'm not sure it's quite that easy to implement. Motion adaptive for 1080i was only recently added by software update in the past year to the Lumagen HDP (followed last month by 1080i inverse telecine). It still isn't incorporated into the DVDO VP30 due to an insufficient platform (hardware or software, not sure). I do believe it's planned for the VP40 according to what I've read in the VP forums but the last I checked it wasn't even planned as an update to the VP30. Of course both motion adaptive and inverse telecine for SD sources has been standard in most VP's for quite some time and that may have been the reason for their initial successes with improvements people were seeing with SD on the larger screens.

With NEC's rep of being ahead of the curve, maybe 1080i motion adaptive was in last year but was omitted from the spec sheet. Either way, I guess it's Kudos to NEC.

does anyone use the 50XR5 for playing video games? any issues with IR or lag?

Either way, I guess it's Kudos to NEC.

Now, that's a comment that no one could argue with. :)

As an aside, my comment about how easy and inexpensive it was to implement motion adaptive deiterlacing was intended to refer to adding a new or revised hardware board to replace a prior model year's board as the motion adaptive IC chipset is REAL cheap. (That's why it is so common now.) Plus, I'm guessing that the company that sold this chipset to the other plasma manufacturers at the time was knocking on NEC's door, as well. (After all, once they tell NEC that Panny has it, it is hard for NEC not to buy the chipset if they want to remain competitive.)

I didn't even know that you could do a firmware upgrade without a new chipset. I'm impressed that Lumagen was able to do this via a software upgrade. I'll bet that must have been a challenge for their engineers at the time.

And, I never perceived your prior comments as being argumentative. We were just shooting the breeze and having fun. :D

The VP 30 is the current model for DVDO. If they could have included it cheaply I'm not sure why they wouldn't have. Maybe they just didn't want to give up on the Sil 054 as they've used that for some time I think. Lumagen still uses the Sil 054 for SD deinterlacing and they were able to do it. Don't know. It also doesn't make sense why manufacturers like Sharp wouldn't incorporate it with their Aquos panels. Maybe it has to do with the expense of the whole package i.e. SD/HD video and film mode processing. This may not all be available from a single chip. I'm speculating here.

FYI according to the HT article current pdp's which don't do motion adaptive for 1080i include LG and Phillips. NEC wasn't tested. None of the Sharp LCD panels do (even the 1080p). Panny and Pio pdp's passed the test. :)

Here's a nice discussion of the issue of 1080i deinterlacing. It's from Teranex so there's an obvious bias towards the HQV chip: http://www.hqv.com/technology/index1/deinterlacing.cfm?CFID=&CFTOKEN=544b8ed0aaaf3b8d-D6929ACF-7E90-E2A3-B66675A81D6A7AE1

The VP 30 is the current model for DVDO. If they could have included it cheaply I'm not sure why they wouldn't have. Maybe they just didn't want to give up on the Sil 054 as they've used that for some time I think. Lumagen still uses the Sil 054 for SD deinterlacing and they were able to do it. Don't know. It also doesn't make sense why manufacturers like Sharp wouldn't incorporate it with their Aquos panels. Maybe it has to do with the expense of the whole package i.e. SD/HD video and film mode processing. This may not all be available from a single chip. I'm speculating here.

FYI according to the HT article current pdp's which don't do motion adaptive for 1080i include LG and Phillips. NEC wasn't tested. None of the Sharp LCD panels do (even the 1080p). Panny and Pio pdp's passed the test. :)

Here's a nice discussion of the issue of 1080i deinterlacing. It's from Teranex so there's an obvious bias towards the HQV chip: http://www.hqv.com/technology/index1/deinterlacing.cfm?CFID=&CFTOKEN=544b8ed0aaaf3b8d-D6929ACF-7E90-E2A3-B66675A81D6A7AE1

Makes me wonder if real cheap means not real good and some of the manufacturers decided that bobbing was a better alternative. That may explain why most consumers haven't complained about 1080i PQ even if the set they are watching it on is bobbing the picture.

Here's an example of a product that has been available since January, 2004 and only cost $7 - $10/unit to implement.

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/29592/772

I'm sure that there were other, more expensive and perhaps better alternatives around at the time (and perhaps other less expensive alternatives, as well).

Would SDE be of any concern with the 50" size at a distance of 6 feet? Thanks in advance.

Would SDE be of any concern with the 50" size at a distance of 6 feet? Thanks in advance.


I can't see SDE on my 50 until around 5ft. This varies some depending on visual acuity. That's not the only thing I'd consider, though. Even the best pdp's will still have artifacts and also are ultimately dependent on signal quality as well. You'll see everything good and bad with a 50 inch at that distance. You may be someone who'd benefit from 1080p if you are actually planning on sitting that close. Don't forget, though, even a 1080p display is only as good as the source.

Thanks cpcat. My main viewing distance will be from 10 feet. But I also have a love seat along the wall of the room and whoever sits there would be viewing from 6 feet...... Another stupid question, but I notice the resolution of the NEC is 1365 X 768. If signals are sent at either 720p or 1080i, would 720p be considered its native resolution?

Thanks cpcat. My main viewing distance will be from 10 feet. But I also have a love seat along the wall of the room and whoever sits there would be viewing from 6 feet...... Another stupid question, but I notice the resolution of the NEC is 1365 X 768. If signals are sent at either 720p or 1080i, would 720p be considered its native resolution?

The native res. for the XR5 is as you say 1365 x 768 or 768p. 720p/1080i/480p/480i or whatever will have to be processed to 768p by the display. 720p and 480p will only have to be scaled whereas 1080i/480i will require deinterlacing and scaling.

At 10 feet, a 768p 50 inch display would be ideal.

Indianbuckeye, I have no lag issues on my XBox. I have about 140 hrs on my 50XR5, and didn't play any games until after 100 hours. You can save 6 different video settings and I have a video games setting with 50% maximum brightness and reduced contrast.

Even with these reduced settings, static image and HUD IR begins to set in around 30 minutes. I shrugged it off for an additional 90 minutes and finally stopped. IR was very noticeable. I ran the break-in DVD posted in the master break-in thread for about 3 cycles (18 min). Afterward, there was no sign of IR. Since I am still breaking in the display, I would not game without running through a few cycles of the DVD afterward.

IR was a top concern for me in plasma selection as well. This panel seems to take longer to break in than the 100 hours that Panasonic recommends for their panels. I realized, however, that once I became confident that IR could easily be managed in the first 1000 hours, I began to enjoy my panel a lot more. Don't be swayed that there isn't IR with this panel (there is), but it is so easily managed it should not get in your way if it is the last hurdle to clear on your purchase decision.

Makes me wonder if real cheap means not real good and some of the manufacturers decided that bobbing was a better alternative. That may explain why most consumers haven't complained about 1080i PQ even if the set they are watching it on is bobbing the picture.

Here's an example of a product that has been available since January, 2004 and only cost $7 - $10/unit to implement.


I'm sure that there were other, more expensive and perhaps better alternatives around at the time (and perhaps other less expensive alternatives, as well).


The two main players here according to the HT article seem to be Pixelworks (Epson) and Gennum (Westinghouse). The HQV which I'd also assume is a player is made by Silicon Optix/Teranex. Pixelworks seems to be in league with Silicon Optix and HDMI integration seems to be important as well. See http://www.us.design-reuse.com/news/news12668.html

NEC appears to buy from Pixelworks. See http://www.pixelworks.com/product/main.html I didn't have a chance to check to see if they're also a customer of Gennum. The only price I could find for the Pixelworks chip was from a '01 version which was 14 dollars assuming 10,000 units sold.

7-10 dollars per chip is not the same as 7-10 dollars to implement is it? :confused:

The two main players here according to the HT article seem to be Pixelworks (Epson) and Gennum (Westinghouse). The HQV which I'd also assume is a player is made by Silicon Optix/Teranex. Pixelworks seems to be in league with Silicon Optix and HDMI integration seems to be important as well. See http://www.us.design-reuse.com/news/news12668.html

NEC appears to buy from Pixelworks. See http://www.pixelworks.com/product/main.html I didn't have a chance to check to see if they're also a customer of Gennum. The only price I could find for the Pixelworks chip was from a '01 version which was 14 dollars assuming 10,000 units sold.

7-10 dollars per chip is not the same as 7-10 dollars to implement is it? :confused:

Hell if I know, Cpcat. I suspect that the motion adaptive process uses some horsepower and requires a pretty good microprocessor as well.

Hell if I know, Cpcat. I suspect that the motion adaptive process uses some horsepower and requires a pretty good microprocessor as well.

Yes and no. If they have implemented the motion adaptive algorithms in hardware, which is relatively easy to do for a FIXED set of algorithms, then no microprocessor is required. You can do a LOT of vector/pixel processing in parallel in H/W. It's possible that they added some level of programmability too. How much will depend on the feature set, etc.

To anser cpcat's question, the $7-10 is probably the selling price of the chip. These chips tend to be relatively small compared to GPU in video cards, and ship in lots more volume. Since chip selling prices are directly correllated to size and volume, tht price seems right.

The actual development cost of the chips is usually several million dollars, and can be much higher depending on the complexity, so they have to sell a lot to recoup that investment.

I would give my contact at Silicon Optix a call to ask about what they spent but I suspect he would politely decline to answer.

I've continued to experiment with this for all day/night viewing and I've decided to stick with it. The black levels really do seem significantly lower. I think this is on par with my Panny 50U even with the Panny in Vivid or Standard modes (which floats the black so it goes deeper). I think "Bright'' on the NEC also floats the blacks but it's a compromise (isn't everything?).

As an aside, I put my VP back in the loop yesterday and tried using it to simply output 720p to the display. Here was my rationale to try it this way: Feeding 720p to the panel doesn't disable any of the picture menu modes (including Bright mode) and still takes advantage of the VP's 1080i deinterlacing for video and film. Guess what? PQ (both 720p and 1080i) is still easily better (smoother, less artifacting) straight to the NEC. Oh well. :o

I've been experimenting with the "bright" picture mode. It seems to provide dynamic contrast enhancement (DCE) if I'm not mistaken. That's a nice way of saying it floats the black level. Anyway, it seems to lower the black level some overall. I've not seen any negatives yet, but in theory it might produce "shifting blacks" like on the Panasonics. I was never bothered by this but some are so this may not be for everyone. Anyone else try it yet? Here are the settings I came up with (using HDMI, set to "high" in setup menu).

Contrast 49
Brt 36
color 30
tint 32
NR 2
color temp mid low
*GR43
*GG37
*GB37
*BR40
*BG40
*BB40
Cinema on
Pic Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low tone auto
Setup level (pedestal) 0
Color tune all default

I rechecked the AVIA horizontal grey ramp and it has remained smooth. ;)

I had been using Theater 1 but decided to try out cpcat's settings on my 42xr4. I was curious whether settings obtained on the 50 inch plasma would also look good on the 42. I was surprised to find that I really like the Bright setting and that, when I saved the two settings to memory and compared them, the Theater 1 setting now looked a bit too dark. I am going to keep these settings for awhile and try them out with both HDTV and dvd. Thanks, cpcat!

I had been using Theater 1 but decided to try out cpcat's settings on my 42xr4. I was curious whether settings obtained on the 50 inch plasma would also look good on the 42. I was surprised to find that I really like the Bright setting and that, when I saved the two settings to memory and compared them, the Theater 1 setting now looked a bit too dark. I am going to keep these settings for awhile and try them out with both HDTV and dvd. Thanks, cpcat!

I'm interested, between these two settings, do the blacks look darker on one?
You might try switching back and forth on a pillar-boxed or letter-boxed image and pay attention to the relative "blackness" of the black bars.

I can tell a definite difference on my panel. Even on the 0 IRE black bars AVIA pattern I can see the difference.

The native res. for the XR5 is as you say 1365 x 768 or 768p. 720p/1080i/480p/480i or whatever will have to be processed to 768p by the display. 720p and 480p will only have to be scaled whereas 1080i/480i will require deinterlacing and scaling.

At 10 feet, a 768p 50 inch display would be ideal.

So is that mean 720P better to use than 1080i in XR5?

So is that mean 720P better to use than 1080i in XR5?

No. Use the native signal resolution if possible. For example, feed 1080i if watching CBS, 720p if watching ABC, 720p if watching FOX, 480p if watching Lifetime or Oxygen ( ;) ).

Many STB's have a "native" or "all signals" or "pass thru" mode which will automatically feed the native signal resolution to the display.

If you're STB doesn't have this mode, it's a wash between 720p and 1080i so just try them both and pick one. Alternatively, you can manually switch for each channel.

The reason I fed 720p via the video processor was to take advantage of the advanced 1080i deinterlacing in my video processor. For a 1080i signal, the required processing is 1080i->deinterlacer->1080p->768p->display. For a 720p signal, 720p->768p->display. However, if you set your STB to 720p then you are depending on a likely poor deinterlacer to convert your 1080i to 720p in your STB. The best thing in this situation is, like I said, feed the native source signal and depend on your STB to do as little as possible.

In any case, like I noted, the NEC still did a better job than my VP so feed native signal resolution if possible. Sorry for yelling. :)

I just got an email from my dist that the new MSRP on the PX-42XR5 is 3995.00.
I just wish they had dropped the price on the 50" too.

Bill

I'm assuming that's the 42XR4 you're referring to.

I can tell a definite difference on my panel. Even on the 0 IRE black bars AVIA pattern I can see the difference.

Well now I really need to try these out when I get home tonight. I was a big fan of your last settings, although I cranked the brightness down to 25 instead of using 36. I couldn't see any lost detail, and I feel more comfortable with a setting below the factory default.

I wonder if I should try those settings. I have had my XR5 for a month or so and have not touched any settings.

Well, I've probably got 400 or more hours on my set now, but I still get IR. It's very pronounced, but it fades away quickly by watching anything that covers the whole screen and moves regularly. One night I made the mistake of falling asleep to CNN eventhough it was stretched in Stadium mode... The next morning I had some great IR of the ticker and the CNN logo. It went away within 5 minutes, but scared the crap outta me. Other than the IR, I love this XM5. I just bought an Xbox, and have been trying to beat the kids in frogger. We get IR from the score board and health status, but it goes away quickly as well. Also, I have been using Cpcat's settings for a week or so, and I really like them.

I just got an email from my dist that the new MSRP on the PX-42XR5 is 3995.00.
I just wish they had dropped the price on the 50" too.

Bill

I think msrp on the 50" was like $7999 just last year. It has dropped to $5499 for the new 50" this year. How much more do you think it should come down?

I think msrp on the 50" was like $7999 just last year. It has dropped to $5499 for the new 50" this year. How much more do you think it should come down?

Well maybe not MSRP, but there are some forum alliance members who have it listed for quite a bit cheaper than that. I'm ready to buy, but I'm leery of purchasing a plasma that costs thousands of dollars over the internet.

I'm interested, between these two settings, do the blacks look darker on one?
You might try switching back and forth on a pillar-boxed or letter-boxed image and pay attention to the relative "blackness" of the black bars.

I can tell a definite difference on my panel. Even on the 0 IRE black bars AVIA pattern I can see the difference.

I think that the black bars look a drop blacker with the new settings (Bright) versus my old settings on Theater 1. However, the blacks on Theater 1 were pretty damned good too. So far, I really like these new settings. The picture looks great.

Well maybe not MSRP, but there are some forum alliance members who have it listed for quite a bit cheaper than that. I'm ready to buy, but I'm leery of purchasing a plasma that costs thousands of dollars over the internet.

I wasn't talking about whether or not you can buy it cheaper than msrp, hardly anyone actually pays that. I was simply stating that msrp has indeed come down considerably on the 50" as well as the 42'.

Okay, dumb question time. I've been looking all through this thread but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for.

What are the differences between the 50XR5 and the 50XM5?

The XR5 seems to be quite a bit more expensive than the XM5, does it warrant the cost difference?

I'm a little leery of purchasing an expensive plasma screen over the internet/phone, any advice?

Thanks!

the Xr5 is the consumer model and the XM5 is the industrial.

The difference is in the input types. The XM has DVI and more analog RGB inputs while the XR has HDMI and only one RGB. The bezels are also slightly different.

Full details at necvisualsystems.com .

Thanks, I found what I was looking for after I posted. :o

I just think that the MSRP needs to come down another 500 to 700 so the street price could be closer to 3000 (before shipping, and mounting hardware).

Bill

I just think that the MSRP needs to come down another 500 to 700 so the street price could be closer to 3000 (before shipping, and mounting hardware).

Bill

You can get the 50XM5A close to this price ;)

HI all :)

just chiming in in this thread since I am 95% sure that the NEC 50XM5A will be my next and first plasma TV.

One thing that I would have preferred though is to have an HDMI input!
I'm thinking.....my HTPC will take the DVI, the cable box will take Component! If I will ever decide to buy a DVD player, where do I hook it up to?

Buy the little adapter to change the BNC Component input to Reg component and you will be all set with a additional component input.

HI all :)

just chiming in in this thread since I am 95% sure that the NEC 50XM5A will be my next and first plasma TV.

One thing that I would have preferred though is to have an HDMI input!
I'm thinking.....my HTPC will take the DVI, the cable box will take Component! If I will ever decide to buy a DVD player, where do I hook it up to?

I too think that the XM5A is going to be my first plasma, unless I can find a compelling reason to purchase the RM5A instead, or I get a good price quote.

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a DVI switching box, or will that cause some havok with the HDCP?

I too think that the XM5A is going to be my first plasma, unless I can find a compelling reason to purchase the RM5A instead, or I get a good price quote.

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a DVI switching box, or will that cause some havok with the HDCP?

If HDMI is an issue why don't you buy the XR5A. Also has 3 yr wtty vs. 1 for the XM???

...1soupmeister...

the XM5 has DVI in while the XR5 does not.
Since I will be hooking up my HTPC to the XM5 I'd like it to have DVI in.

Is there any other way to hook it up and have the best picture quality possible, beside DVI?

EDIT: I wish the panel was 1280x768p instead of 1365x768 since that way there could be 1:1 pixel mapping. No video cards supports 1365x768....

...1soupmeister...

the XM5 has DVI in while the XR5 does not.
Since I will be hooking up my HTPC to the XM5 I'd like it to have DVI in.

Is there any other way to hook it up and have the best picture quality possible, beside DVI?

EDIT: I wish the panel was 1280x768p instead of 1365x768 since that way there could be 1:1 pixel mapping. No video cards supports 1365x768....


There are ways to get it to do 1365X768, but it involves using Powerstrip and such. My NEC dreams have just taken somewhat of a hit, 1:1 pixel mapping for me will be paramount, as this will be run through my HTPC.

There are ways to get it to do 1365X768, but it involves using Powerstrip and such. My NEC dreams have just taken somewhat of a hit, 1:1 pixel mapping for me will be paramount, as this will be run through my HTPC.


I'm in the same position as you Boos10l! Let me know if you find anything that suits us!

May just have to wait for a true 1900 X 1080 plasma, or go the RP route. :eek: :(

nahhh...not for me. I will be sitting at 11ft and will not be able to tell the difference. Plus I will have to change the CPU on the HTPC to scale up to 1920x1080...

I'm in the same position as you Boos10l! Let me know if you find anything that suits us!
Excuse my ignorance here but would not a "good" DVI cable to HDMI give you what you are looking for? Sound is not a factor for you so you gain 2 HDMI inputs and the added warranty. Your signal would pass through the same as if you had a DVI in. Please correct me if I'm wrong with this.

Yes it certainly would, but I am not sure that the HDMI input on the set will accept PC signals.....will it?

How about the ATI X 1800XL with dual link DVI? I thought I read it would do 1366x768.

Yes it certainly would, but I am not sure that the HDMI input on the set will accept PC signals.....will it?

Yes, it will accept PC signals via HDMI.

Yes, it will accept PC signals via HDMI.

Oh my gosh!!!!

I think I must have read this post around 100 times in a minute.
All resolutions are accepted?

Does the XR5 have a 15 pin DIN RGB input? If so, that's how I'd hook it up. My XM5 has the 15 pin DIN RGB, and it's for use with an HTPC. I haven't hooked one up to my XM5 yet, and I might be a little afraid to with the high IR this set has. I have my HTPC connected to my Hitachi 55", and never have any IR even if I leave one static image for hours.

ya, but DVI is much clearer and the color are far better then using D-sub.

Uh oh...did not know that the XM5 had bad IR!! :(

It does, but goes away quickly when watching full screen video. I am a little afraid of static images for very long though. I doubt I ever hook up an HTPC to this set because of it. Have you actually seen a PC connected via DVI compared to a d-sub connected one? I have loved my HTPC on my Hitachi connected through the D-Sub, but haven't ever tried it using a DVI or HDMI connection.

It does, but goes away quickly when watching full screen video. I am a little afraid of static images for very long though. I doubt I ever hook up an HTPC to this set because of it. Have you actually seen a PC connected via DVI compared to a d-sub connected one? I have loved my HTPC on my Hitachi connected through the D-Sub, but haven't ever tried it using a DVI or HDMI connection.


try using DVi and notice the difference! Colors, brightness, clarity and what more! Haven`t had any experience with plasma and PCs, but I sure do have a lot of experience using LCD monitors for PCs!

I'll have to try it. BTW, this XM5 has a beautiful picture, great black levels and everything. I bought it for my bedroom, so the static image retention wont be a problem for me after I get the Hitachi shipped up here from South Carolina.

I'll have to try it. BTW, this XM5 has a beautiful picture, great black levels and everything. I bought it for my bedroom, so the static image retention wont be a problem for me after I get the Hitachi shipped up here from South Carolina.


Let me know how it goes with DVI! :)

Congrats on the 55" I wish I could afford it.

Right now I'm torn between the NEX XM5, the Panasonic 60U series ...

I've got an ATI 9800 Pro card with DVI out. Sounds good to me.

Now, XM5 or XR5..... :cool:

I have the same card! :D

now, since the XR5 accepts PC inputs over HDMI, I think its better, than the XM5

Double check that the HDMI will accept PC input. I hadn't heard that before.

Yes, it will accept PC signals via HDMI.


Just referring to this post.

:)

Yeah, that's what I mean, you should double check that before you make your purchase.

...I wish I could, but how?

I can call NEC, but that would be the only way for me. Beside asking in those forums...

Check out their specs at NEC's website. I'll look too.

okeydokey!

XR5 manual:
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/documents/UserManuals/usermanual_42XR4A_50XR5A_61XR4A.pdf

It does accpet HDMI via PC! On page 25 of the manual.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2830/untitled11jo.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled11jo.jpg)

Just to clarify what "Accepting PC input" means.

There are a whack-load of resolutions that are accepted. Depending on which one you send, the signal will either be 1:1 mapped or scaled to 1365x768. There is a table in the "model info" document/manual that gives all the mappings.

cool, you beat me to it...I was just getting ready to post that as well.

:D

That is some great info!

I guess if it all else fail, there will be the D-Sub input as a backup! :)

So what is your overall rating Mark, The NEC over the Hitachi????

I'm holding my comparison until I get them side by side. The Hitachi is still in SC. I have to say though, they are both great units. The black levels are better in the NEC for sure. The image retention is non existant in the hitachi though. I think I have the best of both worlds actually. Hitachi for the living room with HTPC and XBOX, and the NEC XM5 for the bedroom for only watching tv and dvds.

I've got an ATI 9800 Pro card with DVI out. Sounds good to me.

Now, XM5 or XR5..... :cool:
That's a no brainer now that you know DVI to HDMI will work. More inputs and 2 more years of warranty. Good luck.

exactely! :D

The only thing that you might want to check is whether the HDMI inputs on the XR5 are HDCP compliant. I had read something about that on this thread recently. The guys were saying the XM5 would be better because the DVI was HDCP compliant. I have no idea if they were right. cpcat or Chris may be able to tell you what that was all about.

Ok. I'm pulling the trigger on this over the weekend. What wall mount would you owners suggest?

Thanks.

The only thing that you might want to check is whether the HDMI inputs on the XR5 are HDCP compliant. I had read something about that on this thread recently. The guys were saying the XM5 would be better because the DVI was HDCP compliant. I have no idea if they were right. cpcat or Chris may be able to tell you what that was all about.

Thank you. I will send a PM to cpcat and see what he says! :)

The only thing that you might want to check is whether the HDMI inputs on the XR5 are HDCP compliant. I had read something about that on this thread recently. The guys were saying the XM5 would be better because the DVI was HDCP compliant. I have no idea if they were right. cpcat or Chris may be able to tell you what that was all about.


I think they are both HDCP, but only the DVI will accept a 1080P signal.

shane

I think they are both HDCP, but only the DVI will accept a 1080P signal.

shane

Try this http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/documents/UserManuals/modelinfo_50XR5A.pdf
and go to page 5. It shows all the supported resolutions.

The DVI on the XM5 will accept 1080p. The XR5 will accept 1080p on component.

The DVI on the XM5 will accept 1080p. The XR5 will accept 1080p on component.

You are correct, of course.
My response was not taking analong feeds into consideration as the questions concerned digital input.

shane

HI all :)

just chiming in in this thread since I am 95% sure that the NEC 50XM5A will be my next and first plasma TV.

One thing that I would have preferred though is to have an HDMI input!
I'm thinking.....my HTPC will take the DVI, the cable box will take Component! If I will ever decide to buy a DVD player, where do I hook it up to?

The XR5 has two HDMI inputs. You can use a DVI/HDMI adapter. 1365 x 768 will work either on HDMI (XR5) or DVI (XM5). I've done it through an HDMI/DVI adapter myself on the XR5. Others here have done it with the nvidia 6600 video card. If you'll look back in the thread you'll see posts with timings for the nvidia card and my VP timings are back there as well. Search for "timings' and that should do it.

The one advantage to the XM5 is 1080p60 support over DVI. Otherwise the XR5 has more inputs and a better warranty.

To the question above regarding HDCP, all the digital inputs on the current NEC's are HDCP compliant.

The XR5 has two HDMI inputs. You can use a DVI/HDMI adapter. 1365 x 768 will work either on HDMI (XR5) or DVI (XM5). I've done it through an HDMI/DVI adapter myself on the XR5. Others here have done it with the nvidia 6600 video card. If you'll look back in the thread you'll see posts with timings for the nvidia card and my VP timings are back there as well.

The one advantage to the XM5 is 1080p60 support over DVI. Otherwise the XR5 has more inputs and a better warranty.

To the question above regarding HDCP, all the digital inputs on the current NEC's are HDCP compliant.

So does that mean that the XR5 only gives 1080p60 over component and not DVI?

So does that mean that the XR5 only gives 1080p60 over component and not DVI?


The XR5 doesn't have DVI. The HDMI inputs will not support 1080p60. This won't work with a DVI/HDMI adapter either (tried it). The component inputs will accept 1080p60, though (tried it). The DVI input on the XM5 does support 1080p60 according to NEC.

The HDMI inputs will support 1365 x 768 on the XR5 with a DVI/HDMI adapter (tried it :)) . The DVI on the XM5 also will according to NEC.

So lemme see if I get this straight....

The XM5 has 1 DVI slot that accepts 1080p60, but nothing else that does.

The XR5 doesn't have DVI, it has HDMI, but it doesn't support 1080p60. The only thing the XR5 does have that accepts 1080p60 is component cables, which will cause major headaches down the road because component doesn't support HDCP, which means no BD or HD-DVD.

Am I the only one who thinks this logic that NEC is using is totally flawwed?

Maybe I'll just wait until late next week when Sony unveils their 1080p60 SXRD sets.....

Im much earlier posts there was an Email from NEC that said the XM5 will accept 1080p via component. I have no use for HDMI as I use a totally seperate audiophile DAC for sound. On my XM5 I use the DVI for my E* Satellite, component for my DVD player and I am using an adapter to run my 15 pin plug from my computer to the 5-point BNC on my plasma. The next generation E* 622 uses a HDMI output and I believe using a cord with DVI at one end and HDMI at the other will suffice. Ability to accept 1080p and the DVI plug pushed me to the XM5

1080p over hdmi is a curiousity, either the manufactors won't or can't implement it blaming a flaw in the hdmi spec, where as the people at hdmi say it has been able to pass 1080p since the beginning (spec 1.0) and it is manfactors fault/choosing to not implement it.

I wouldn't buy or not buy a display based on 1080p60 support. 1080i 3:2 pulldown (which is implemented in many displays with high quality processing including the current NEC's) can detect the 3:2 sequence and reconstruct the original 1080p24 then convert to 1080p60 then to 768p all inside the display.

The difference with 1080p60 input is that the 1080p24 to 1080p60 conversion occurs inside the player, not the display. 1080p60 input will only be an advantage if the better deinterlacer is inside the player. This is similar to 480i input vs. 480p input via DVI/HDMI for DVD now. What would be theoretically best would be 1080p24 input support which is the native form of BD. Assuming the 3:2 1080i processing is good that would be the next best thing.

It would be nice to try 1080p60 vs. 1080i input and decide for myself, but like I said, it's not a deal breaker.

So lemme see if I get this straight....

The XM5 has 1 DVI slot that accepts 1080p60, but nothing else that does.

The XR5 doesn't have DVI, it has HDMI, but it doesn't support 1080p60. The only thing the XR5 does have that accepts 1080p60 is component cables, which will cause major headaches down the road because component doesn't support HDCP, which means no BD or HD-DVD.

Am I the only one who thinks this logic that NEC is using is totally flawwed?

Maybe I'll just wait until late next week when Sony unveils their 1080p60 SXRD sets.....

The XM5 supports 1080p over all of it's HD capable inputs.

It's not that component doesn't support HDCP, it's that analog doesn't allow encryption at all. It's likely the manufacturers will therefore offer only downconverted signals over analog with BD/HD-DVD in another step in "closing the analog hole". In other words, component output may basically be useless for BD/HD-DVD altogether. This is a trend that likely will continue and apply to new STB's as well untill eventually analog will be useless for HD altogether.

Rear projection microdisplay vs. pdp is a thread all of it's own.

cpcat Thank you for explaining what until now has been an extremely confusing concept to me.





I wouldn't buy or not buy a display based on 1080p60 support. 1080i 3:2 pulldown (which is implemented in many displays with high quality processing including the current NEC's) can detect the 3:2 sequence and reconstruct the original 1080p24 then convert to 1080p60 then to 768p all inside the display.

The difference with 1080p60 input is that the 1080p24 to 1080p60 conversion occurs inside the player, not the display. 1080p60 input will only be an advantage if the better deinterlacer is inside the player. This is similar to 480i input vs. 480p input via DVI/HDMI for DVD now. What would be theoretically best would be 1080p24 input support which is the native form of BD. Assuming the 3:2 1080i processing is good that would be the next best thing.

It would be nice to try 1080p60 vs. 1080i input and decided for myself, but like I said, it's not a deal breaker.

Thanks you so very much cpcat! Really appreciate your help and knowledge!

:)

I think they are both HDCP, but only the DVI will accept a 1080P signal.

shane

Ahhh, that's right! That's what I was thinking about. Sounds like you can't lose on either one of these sets... pretty much just whatever inputs you prefer, and the style bezel you prefer.

I wouldn't buy or not buy a display based on 1080p60 support. 1080i 3:2 pulldown (which is implemented in many displays with high quality processing including the current NEC's) can detect the 3:2 sequence and reconstruct the original 1080p24 then convert to 1080p60 then to 768p all inside the display.

My point being though that after all is said and done, we have a display that is only capable of 768p. I can't speak from experience, because I haven't seen either of them myself, but from a pure logic standpoint, 1080p is better than 768p.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just need to make the best decision for myself and that involves getting it past my wife. I don't want to have to explain why I spent thousands of dollars on a set that can't display 1080p native.

Then you factor in BD and/or HD-DVD, why spend another grand to two grand on players that will only output to 768p on the display?

I want to make this work, I want to rationalize buying either one of these displays. But if I'm going to be saddled with the same 1365x768 resolution that all other plasmas have, I might as well go to CC or BB and get one for quite a bit cheaper.

Yes but one thing you must realize and something I have learned over time is that resolution doesnt mean a hott if you display doesnt do a good job at displaying the colors correctly. Picture is not all about the resolution . My freind has a 1080p sxrd and my 768p plasma woops his but in terms of PQ even though it scales to a 1080p resolution. And if you have any doubts about this just download a 1080p movie onto your computer and play it over your crt you will clearly see that it looks good but the colors just dont pop as much as on a plasma and in my opinion that makes the picture look better.

How much content is there to view at 1080p right now? We are at least 3 years away from any native signals being broadcast at that level. By then there will be something bigger and better that we will all want. If you are looking for protection form the future you will still be on this forum wondering what to buy 5 years from now because you can never be current. If it's strictly PC content that you're looking for then maybe you should look at LCD and forget plasma. If it's HD TV then plasma is the way to go.

My point being though that after all is said and done, we have a display that is only capable of 768p. I can't speak from experience, because I haven't seen either of them myself, but from a pure logic standpoint, 1080p is better than 768p.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just need to make the best decision for myself and that involves getting it past my wife. I don't want to have to explain why I spent thousands of dollars on a set that can't display 1080p native.

Then you factor in BD and/or HD-DVD, why spend another grand to two grand on players that will only output to 768p on the display?

I want to make this work, I want to rationalize buying either one of these displays. But if I'm going to be saddled with the same 1365x768 resolution that all other plasmas have, I might as well go to CC or BB and get one for quite a bit cheaper.


1080p screen resolution will not be an advantage to most of us unless we are using a very large screen 65 inches or greater or sitting very close to the screen.
A general rule of thumb is that if you won't sit closer than 3.2x the vertical screen height then you won't benefit. Don't get caught up in the marketing hype and end up spending money for screen resolution you won't benefit from and also end up with a lesser quality display to boot.

For 50 inches, the distance is around 7 feet or greater. Unless you will sit closer or go larger don't use screen resolution in your decision making as long as it's at least 768p. A high quality 768p display will outperform an average 1080p display at this size/distance without a doubt. In other words, use the extra cash to pay for a higher quality display, not marketing hype. Or, just buy an average 768p display and save your money but then you'll have to move to a different owner's thread. :)

It is very trye that it is going to take years for 1080p to sort itself out in the market. Then of course there is this thing with Blue Ray, etc. One can make a decision based on current needs and a bit of a gamble on the future. I waited until DVI became quite common and now of course there is HDMI. Still, I chose the 50XM5 because it has the DVI and it will at least accept a 1080p feed should I want to use such a source. A gamble, yes...but a calculated one.

Has anyone here that owns an NEC had the opportunity to see the new Vizio 42"? Review is here:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1333

Believe it or not I've narrowed my plasma choice down to this Vizio and the 42XR4...not because they are similar in quality (the NEC is obviously superior) but because of the overall price value. Since I'm not a videophile and upgrading from a Sony 27" CRT, I think I would be happy with the Vizio quality, at half the price of the NEC. The money saved could be used later down the line for a 1080p or whatever the latest technology is at that point.

The other big factor is that since the Vizio is offered at a certain warehouse store I can try it out for a few weeks and return it at no cost if it doesn't meet my needs, plus I effectively get an extended warranty for free because of the return policy.

On the other hand, I'm a firm believer in big purchases to buy for quality and keep for the long haul.

Any opinions, especially from any who might have seen the Vizio? (Or any 50" owners who have compared the NEC to the Vizio 50" -- Vizio supposedly based the 42" on the same technology.)

Thanks

1080p screen resolution will not be an advantage to most of us unless we are using a very large screen 65 inches or greater or sitting very close to the screen.
A general rule of thumb is that if you won't sit closer than 3.2x the vertical screen height then you won't benefit. Don't get caught up in the marketing hype and end up spending money for screen resolution you won't benefit from and also end up with a lesser quality display to boot.

For 50 inches, the distance is around 7 feet or greater. Unless you will sit closer or go larger don't use screen resolution in your decision making as long as it's at least 768p. A high quality 768p display will outperform an average 1080p display at this size/distance without a doubt. In other words, use the extra cash to pay for a higher quality display, not marketing hype. Or, just buy an average 768p display and save your money but then you'll have to move to a different owner's thread. :)

Thanks for pointing out things that deep down I knew, but just was being too paranoid to see it. I once owned a 50" Sony GWIII RP LCD TV. I was a fairly early adopter, and because of it, I paid through the nose and was one of those people who got stuck with the infamous "buzzing lamp" sets.

Long story short, I sold the set at a considerable loss, bought a 30" WS HD CRT and my wife was pissed. She keeps telling me we don't need a bigger set, but I know if I get a good one, she'll love it (she did love the GWIII when it was working).

I just can't afford another argument like the one we had over the GWIII. I work too darn hard for my money to drop over $3K on a display only to have my wife say "See, I told you so!"

So, to make a long story short, I've all but decided on the NEC, just need to get things settled at home first. :cool:

That being said, what HD upconverting DVD players are people using with these NEC sets? I've been looking at the 400-DVD Sony monster, but has anyone had good experience with it or another particular player?

Thanks for pointing out things that deep down I knew, but just was being too paranoid to see it. I once owned a 50" Sony GWIII RP LCD TV. I was a fairly early adopter, and because of it, I paid through the nose and was one of those people who got stuck with the infamous "buzzing lamp" sets.


Acutally if you get one of the NECs now you are probably as far away from early adopter as possible. Right now, the 768P Plasmas are probably at, or very near, the apex of their product life cycle.

The 1080p sets are about to arrive, and if you get one of those in the next year you will be an early adopter.

I took a long, hard look at the JVC 1080p Dila and Sony SXRD and in the end chose the NEC.

Acutally if you get one of the NECs now you are probably as far away from early adopter as possible. Right now, the 768P Plasmas are probably at, or very near, the apex of their product life cycle.

The 1080p sets are about to arrive, and if you get one of those in the next year you will be an early adopter.

I took a long, hard look at the JVC 1080p Dila and Sony SXRD and in the end chose the NEC.

What specifically was it that made you choose the NEC over the JVC and the SXRD?

What specifically was it that made you choose the NEC over the JVC and the SXRD?

No one issue really. A combination of the following:

1. Bulb life. Realistically I'm looking at 3 or 4 bulb replacements over the lifetime of the TV and that take a big chunk of the price advantage away.

2. Various reports of blotchiness, colour uniformity issues.

3. "Shiny" front screen.

4. Harder for me to get a 61" RPTV down the stairs than a 61" plasma.

Don't get me wrong, the JVC and Sony are fine TVs, I just figured the NEC was a better bet for me.

I still have my GWIII. It's upstairs in the kids' playroom.

In addition to what JVincent said, to me plasma just has a "real" look that I don't get on my GWIII. Plasma looks more like a big direct-view CRT. It just looks better. I've seen the newer microdisplays and I'm sure they're better in many ways than my GWIII but they still don't have the look of plasma.

And I said I didn't want to discuss microdisplay vs. pdp. So much for that I guess. :)

No one issue really. A combination of the following:

1. Bulb life. Realistically I'm looking at 3 or 4 bulb replacements over the lifetime of the TV and that take a big chunk of the price advantage away.

2. Various reports of blotchiness, colour uniformity issues.

3. "Shiny" front screen.

4. Harder for me to get a 61" RPTV down the stairs than a 61" plasma.

Don't get me wrong, the JVC and Sony are fine TVs, I just figured the NEC was a better bet for me.

Yeah, I've been reading about the "green blotches" that seem to be plaguing some of the SXRD sets. Bulbs....ugh, I've had it with bulbs.

Seems like the choice is rather simple.

I still have my GWIII. It's upstairs in the kids' playroom.

In addition to what JVincent said, to me plasma just has a "real" look that I don't get on my GWIII. Plasma looks more like a big direct-view CRT. It just looks better. I've seen the newer microdisplays and I'm sure they're better in many ways than my GWIII but they still don't have the look of plasma.

And I said I didn't want to discuss microdisplay vs. pdp. So much for that I guess. :)

I guess just more than anything else is the fact that I can't walk into a local B&M and take a look at the NEC myself.

With the previous settings I felt the picture was just a little "hot" so I toned down the contrast some. That required boosting the white balance (RGB gain settings) to compensate and keep the AVIA grey ramps smooth. Looking at both the vertical and horizontal ramps, they are the smoothest I've been able to obtain yet and I think it shows with the PQ. I put the prior "bright" setting and this one both in a memory so I can toggle back and forth and I do believe this one I prefer. It seems much smoother overall and maybe not quite as bright but still has plenty of punch.

I increased brightness one tic to 37 and decreased saturation one tic to 29. I always set brightness by the AVIA black bars pattern where I can just barely see the leftmost bar.

Using HDMI, set to "high" in setup menu.


Contrast 44
Brt 37
color 29
tint 32
NR 2
color temp mid low
*GR46
*GG42
*GB40
*BR40
*BG40
*BB40
Cinema on
Pic Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low tone auto
Setup level (pedestal) 0
Color tune all default

cpcat: I just put these new settings into memory and am A/Bing them against the previous set, which I liked a lot. My only concern with the previous settings was that the Contrast was set pretty high. The picture quality, however, was great. My initial reaction to these new settings is that the picture is not as bright as the previous ones and that, in some dark scenes, I am missing some detail. Obviously, I need to live with them a bit longer to be more definitive.

Were you concerned about IR or burn in with the higher contrast setting from the previous settings?

Were you concerned about IR or burn in with the higher contrast setting from the previous settings?

I was trying to decrease background dithering noise. The higher the contrast, the more you'll notice this. With the new setting, this seems reduced and the picture seems smoother overall but still maintains the punch.

I think I actually see more shadow detail with the new settings. You increased the color temp RGB gain didn't you? This is necessary to compensate for the decreased contrast setting. Also, I increased brightness one tic to 37 and decreased saturation one tic to 29. I always set brightness by the AVIA black bars pattern where I can just barely see the leftmost bar. Sorry I didn't mention these other changes in the header paragraph to my post. I'll go back and edit it so it's clearer.

I think this setting is slightly "warmer" as far as color temp goes which is probably closer to 6500K.

Yes, I made the changes to color temp RGB and to color as suggested. I also lowered red and magenta in the Color Tune from 32 to 31 since I was seeing slightly sunburned faces on some SD channels. Perhaps the differences that I noted were simply due to the change in brightness from one setting to the other. The first setting seemed much brighter than did the second. I don't recall seeing background dithering noise at all with the first setting.

I notice that the NEC material recommends keeping the contrast at 50% or less. In both settings, contrast is over 50%. Is this a concern?

What exactly is considered 50% of contrast's setting? It's midpoint on the slider is 52, but if you look at the max and min of the slider, 36 is the true middle of the values. I have always left mine at 52 except when using cpcat's settings. Maybe that's why I have seen so much IR on my set. I'm bumping my contrast down to 36 to see if I can play with the other settings asnd still get the black levels and picture I want.

cpcat, are you using the HDMI input for your set? Some of your settings are different than what show up on my set, but I'm using component inputs, and I have the XM5. I think you have the XR5 right?

I notice that the NEC material recommends keeping the contrast at 50% or less. In both settings, contrast is over 50%. Is this a concern?

Considering the factory default is 52, that's interesting.

I wasn't aware of that. I know Panasonic put out a white paper on break-in that says something like this. That's (burn-in) the only consideration I'd give it. Other than burn-in, the only theoretical concern with higher contrast would be accelerated aging of the panel. With 60,000 hours to 1/2 brightness, I don't think it will likely make big enough of a difference to worry about. I do keep contrast at around 36 for my pc input, though.

It could be that your 42 inch is responding differently to these settings but you might still keep them both in memory for awhile before deciding on one. There's obviously no rule that states your preferences have to approximate mine either. :)

There's obviously no rule that states your preferences have to approximate mine either. :)

lol...I thought we all HAD to set our tv's to the settings that king cpcat told us to. :)

cpcat, are you using the HDMI input for your set? Some of your settings are different than what show up on my set, but I'm using component inputs, and I have the XM5. I think you have the XR5 right?

Yes, I'm using HDMI input. Using component, based on what I can tell you need to put set up level (pedestal) to 3.75 or even 7.5 to make the settings equivalent to mine. This assumes a Video level input via component. You may still need to tweak your brightness as the exact IRE level for black may still vary even among component video level outputs. You'll need a test pattern to do this accurately such as the AVIA black bars pattern or the THX optimizer drop shadow pattern.

The contrast levels seem equivalent on my setup between component and HDMI but obviously there's no guarantee of that either with various manufacturers of STB's, DVD players, etc.

The AVIA disc is a great investment IMO. You should be able to get one for 15 bucks or less (assuming you don't have it already).

Also, I'm assuming that all the settings options in the picture menu are the same for the XM5 as for the XR5, but it's possible they're not. Can you list your settings options in the picture menu?

lol...I thought we all HAD to set our tv's to the settings that king cpcat told us to. :)

Yes, and to all my loyal subjects, a Good Day. :)

Here's my settings in "Picture" menu:

Contrast - 36
Brightness - 32
Sharpness - 16
Color - 30
Tint - 32
Picture Mode - Bright
NR - NR-1
Color Temp - Mid
Gamma - 1
Low Tone - Auto
Color Tune (didn't mess with these)

My XM5 doesn't seem to have this "setup level (pedestal)" thing you always list. I'm not sure what it does, and if my XM5 has an equivalent setting. I don't have an AVIA disk, I borrowed one when I set up my hitachi but haven't bothered to for this NEC yet. I'll have to go get one. I just made sure I had the contrast and brightness cranked down enough to keep it safe, or so I thought. Now that Lisa got me thinking about what the mid setting should be for contrast, I'm not so sure I was being safe with it.

Also, in the "Long Life" menu, I set the PLE setting to Lock1, instead of Auto, eventhough auto seems to make the picture brighter, I get a flickering like the black level is changing constantly when the scene gets darker or lighter. I bumped the contrast up to 40 now, and think it looks perfect for me. I'm excited to see how the IR is now, but I can't mess with it because my daughters are watching a movie.... I lost my tv rights when I had kids.

Considering the factory default is 52, that's interesting.

I wasn't aware of that. I know Panasonic put out a white paper on break-in that says something like this. That's (burn-in) the only consideration I'd give it. Other than burn-in, the only theoretical concern with higher contrast would be accelerated aging of the panel. With 60,000 hours to 1/2 brightness, I don't think it will likely make big enough of a difference to worry about. I do keep contrast at around 36 for my pc input, though.

It could be that your 42 inch is responding differently to these settings but you might still keep them both in memory for awhile before deciding on one. There's obviously no rule that states your preferences have to approximate mine either. :)

I thought it was really interesting too that the factory default is 52 but the slider only goes up to 64. One of the single pieces of paper which accompanied the manual recommended setting maximum brightness and contrast at no more than 50%. Strange that the PDP would arrive at 52.

The main reason that I was asking is that, so far, I have seen no IR at all from using the higher contrast in your first setting. Of course, I only watch the PDP 2-3 hours/day so perhaps that is a factor. The fact that I have the 42 - with its supposedly improved brightness, etc... may also be a factor.

In any event, I will toggle between both settings. I just wanted to see if I was inviting a problem by using the higher contrast. FWIW, definitely appreciate your repeated attempts to improve PQ by playing around with the settings and posting them for the rest of us.

Lisa, I found it funny that the factory presets were at the center of the slider personally. Usually a TV comes from the factory with brightness and contrast maxed out, and with a red push to overcome the showroom floors fluorescent lighting. I contemplated lowering my contrast since I got the TV, but I thought I'd just leave it alone, but with all the IR I've been seeing with static images (paused DVD's for only a few minutes, or paused DVR, or Xbox) I think I'll leave it at 40 and try it. BTW, does your slider for contrast only go to 64 or is that a typo? My slider for contrast goes to 72. So, I figure 36 must be 50%. I'm setting mine to 40 which is much better than what I had it at (52) but gives a very nice picture IMHO.

Marky_Mark, in my rush to respond, I typed 64 instead of 72 for the max contrast setting. It does indeed go to 72. My initial settings were at 37 for contrast while using Theater 1. I just switched to Bright and the picture looks better. I think the problem is that, once you have watched a brighter picture for awhile, anything with a lower contrast looks dimmer and poor. I was very happy with my initial settings until I started using cpcat's settings, which are brighter and look great. :)

Now I have 3 settings in memory and will keep toggling between them. My only concern was that the contrast was too high and would ultimately damage the PDP. If this is not the case, I would prefer to use cpcat's initial settings.

Lisa, as long as you don't leave a static image on the screen for prolonged times, I don't think a higher contrast will damage the tv. I could be wrong, as I'm not an expert, but I think the only thing a higher contrast and brightness will do is prematurely age your tv, maybe you'll only get 35-45000 hours of use before half brightness, but if you only use it for 2-3 hours a day, I don't think you'll ever see half brightness anyways. 7 or 8 hours a day will get you 20 years before half brightness, so your set should last you 50 or 60 years...

Here's my settings in "Picture" menu:

Contrast - 36
Brightness - 32
Sharpness - 16
Color - 30
Tint - 32
Picture Mode - Bright
NR - NR-1
Color Temp - Mid
Gamma - 1
Low Tone - Auto
Color Tune (didn't mess with these)

My XM5 doesn't seem to have this "setup level (pedestal)" thing you always list. .


Maybe the pedestal could be in the setup menu? If not, I'd assume it's defaulted for video level input.

You may know this, but you can highlight color temp and press enter and this will allow custom grey scale adjustments. This will be necessary if you want to try the King's settings. :) Also, is your gamma really listed as "1"? I'd assume that would represent 2.1 and "2" would be 2.2 and so on.

Just received my 50XR5 plasma... I've been playing around with it and noticed

when I use my current Zenith 318B Upconverting DVD player @ 1080i over component, I am noticing gradiation/banding type issues on peoples faces. This happens at all outputs 480i/p, 720 etc..

Very similar to the Rimes picture earlier in this thread..

Is this normal for DVDs on this set or is it a 318B problem?

Thanks!

Yeah cpcat, my gamma is listed as 1 or 2 or 3, but I assumed it was the same as your 2.1, 2.2, or 2.3. Thanks for the tip on the gray scale adjustment. I did not know about that.

Just received my 50XR5 plasma... I've been playing around with it and noticed

when I use my current Zenith 318B Upconverting DVD player @ 1080i over component, I am noticing gradiation/banding type issues on peoples faces. This happens at all outputs 480i/p, 720 etc..

Very similar to the Rimes picture earlier in this thread..

Is this normal for DVDs on this set or is it a 318B problem?

Thanks!

I have not seen this. I use an LG 3510a which is probably very similar to your Zenith. I like DVI output at 480p as it won't allow 480i over DVI.

If it doesn't occur with other sources I'd assume it's the DVD player until proven otherwise. I've found that you need to put setup level (pedestal) to 3.75 or even 7.5 when using component if you want your brightness settings to approximate those for HDMI/DVI set to "high" in the setup menu. This assumes that both your HDMI/DVI and component sources are video level. However, this may not be an issue with black level that you are seeing.

scmguru, have you tried letting the set do the upconverting, and just feeding it 480i or 480p from the DVD unit? I've heard that a lot of people say that the set does better upconversion than a player does.

cpcat, you beat me to the answer.

I'll throw in though that using my cable box for SD feeds, it looks MUCH better set at 480i and let the set upconvert it. SD looks terrible if I let the STB upconvert it for the set.

cpcat, do you have the setting in the "long life" menu called PLE? If so, what do you have it set to? I just moved mine from "Lock 1" to "auto". It's amazing how much brighter that makes your set, but I had put it on "lock 1" previously to get rid of a flicker of the brightness that I only got when it was set to "auto". So far I'm not noticing that flicker. I'll have to keep watching to see if it does it... This is such a pretty TV though.

In any event, I will toggle between both settings. I just wanted to see if I was inviting a problem by using the higher contrast. FWIW, definitely appreciate your repeated attempts to improve PQ by playing around with the settings and posting them for the rest of us.

Lisa, I've found that on this latest "bright" picture setting, you can tweak the brightness setting up as far as 40 if you want without any detriment to the AVIA grey ramps and it doesn't seem to raise the black level noticeably either. This may help with shadow detail if you want to try it. I've tweaked mine up a notch to 38 after watching some of Law and Order SUV on UHD this afternoon. It always seems to be a good show to evaluate shadow detail to me.

cpcat, do you have the setting in the "long life" menu called PLE? If so, what do you have it set to? I just moved mine from "Lock 1" to "auto". It's amazing how much brighter that makes your set, but I had put it on "lock 1" previously to get rid of a flicker of the brightness that I only got when it was set to "auto". So far I'm not noticing that flicker. I'll have to keep watching to see if it does it... This is such a pretty TV though.

I don't have a "long life" menu at all. The XR5 has a "function" menu which has a "pdp saver" subcategory. Within that subcategory, there is a peak brightness adjustment which can be set from 25-100 percent. The orbiter settings are also contained within this subcategory: "auto 1", "auto 2" and "off". That's the closest I could find to what you are describing.

I'm beginning to think there may be more differences in the XR5 and XM5 than were thought.

Yeah cpcat, seems they definitely had two different programmers for their menu system anyways. Strange, I'd have thought they'd have used the same menu system.

FWIW, that PLE is "Peak Luminensce Enhancement"...

cpcat, I tweaked the brightness up to 39. We'll see what that does.

What do you all have the Peak Brightness in the PDP Saver menu set al?

What do you all have the Peak Brightness in the PDP Saver menu set al?

100%.

I've played with it to see if decreasing it lowers the black level any but it doesn't. I think this setting is meant for airport monitors, etc.

That is what mine is set at too.

That must be the same thing as the PLE in the XM5, because I think it looks bad with anything but Auto selected. Lock1 really cuts down the brightness a ton. But since I set it on Auto again, I noticed a lot of IR again. So now I set the picture mode to Theater 1 instead of Bright. It seems to have made it a good picture, but not too bad of IR. I'll have to go out and buy an Avia disk tomorrow.

I have 500 hours now, and this ghosting/IR issue is now drastically diminished. It seemed to start to decrease significantly after 400 hours. It didn't seem to change much up to about 400 hours.

I'm still unconvinced it has anything to do with permanent burn-in, but in any case this should put current and future owners more at ease.

Hey cpcat, is there a way to access a hour meter on these sets?

It's in the service menu. See http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=148

Cool, thanks. I have 421 total hours, and 408 p-on hours, what ever those two numbers mean... So I have somewhere around 400 hours on the display.

cpcat- Did a bit more fiddling with the DVD player.. I hooked it up to a 1024x768 DLP Projector and it looked great @ 1080i component out, no artifacts.

I'm going to pick up a DVI--> HDMI Cable this week and give it a try w/ that.

So what are you thinking now CPCat, NEC still over Panasonic?

So what are you thinking now CPCat, NEC still over Panasonic?

For the XR5 vs. the 50PX50U I'd give the NEC a significant advantage in resolution especially with 720p sources. Color performance probably an edge to NEC. Black level seems to be comparable between the two now that I've began using "bright" mode on the NEC. The NEC has a smoothness to the image that the Panny doesn't. Probably this stems from the adjustability built in to tweak the NEC to it's best performance whereas the Panny had little adjustability and isn't even ISF'able.

So, yes, I'd say the NEC over the 50PX50U without a doubt with the most significant advantages being resolution with 720p sources and user adjustability.

So, yes, I'd say the NEC over the 50PX50U without a doubt with the most significant advantages being resolution with 720p sources and user adjustability.

I ordered my 50XR5 (sight unseen) last week and I want to thank all of you for the great posts on this thread. It vertainly influenced my decision and you now further confirm that I made the right choice. Delivery is 4-5 weeks out and I can hardly wait. Look forward to tweaking it to your specs CPCAT. You have taken most of the guesswork out of the setup so it will be fun right out of the gate. Again, thanks to all and I look forward to posting my review.

With the previous settings I felt the picture was just a little "hot" so I toned down the contrast some. That required boosting the white balance (RGB gain settings) to compensate and keep the AVIA grey ramps smooth. Looking at both the vertical and horizontal ramps, they are the smoothest I've been able to obtain yet and I think it shows with the PQ.

Cpcat, when you tweak your XR5 using the Avia disk, as I assume you are doing, the signal is coming from your DVD player. As I am sure you are aware, DVD players also have adjustable set-up with respect to brightness, contrast, color temp, etc. Therefore, aren't your preferred XR5 settings highly dependent upon the settings in your DVD player? And if so, is it not dangerous for the rest of us to use your preferred XR5 settings without reference to an Avia disk reproduced from our own DVD player(s)? Finally, even assuming one has one's own Avia disk, how does one decide how to adjust two variables, the DVD player vs the plasma, to get best results? Likewise, if you read the "upscaling DVD player" forum, you will find folks talking about adjusting their DVD players using Avia, without one word about how they have adjusted their displays, which in my view devalues that information as well.

Cpcat, when you tweak your XR5 using the Avia disk, as I assume you are doing, the signal is coming from your DVD player. As I am sure you are aware, DVD players also have adjustable set-up with respect to brightness, contrast, color temp, etc. Therefore, aren't your preferred XR5 settings highly dependent upon the settings in your DVD player? And if so, is it not dangerous for the rest of us to use your preferred XR5 settings without reference to an Avia disk reproduced from our own DVD player(s)? Finally, even assuming one has one's own Avia disk, how does one decide how to adjust two variables, the DVD player vs the plasma, to get best results? Likewise, if you read the "upscaling DVD player" forum, you will find folks talking about adjusting their DVD players using Avia, without one word about how they have adjusted their displays, which in my view devalues that information as well.

You make valid points. There will always be variables beyond our control no matter what. Even the STB vs. the DVD player could certainly be different and obviously DVD is still ultimately an SD source. Ideally, you'd have extensive test patterns generated from each input source both SD and HD. HDnet does have some, but if you don't have an HD-DVR it's difficult to use them in a practical way. Also, upcoming BD will supposedly have test patterns on the first few Sony releases from what I understand so that will help. I'd expect HD test pattern discs (HD AVIA or similar) will eventually be available after BD/HD-DVD is established.

For now, though, AVIA, DVE, THX optimizer or similar SD discs over DVD is the best most have readily available. I certainly would encourage anyone who uses someone else's settings to double-check them for themselves and adjust as necessary for there own particular setup and preferences.

Dangerous? :)

So what are you thinking now CPCat, NEC still over Panasonic?

Has anyone compared the new 61" NEC to the 61" Pioneers? I ask because I know that both share the same NEC glass and, perhaps, some of the same (if not all of the same) electronics and I was wondering if the new NEC was substantially better than last year's model and the present Pioneers.

I've seen the most recent 61" Pioneers - including the Elite yesterday afternoon - and it absolutely pales in comparison to the 65" Panasonic 8UK. I'm wondering if Pioneer/NEC has made the strategic decision to not focus on this segment of the market in a big way until it can market a full spec 1080p 61" or larger panel.

Has anyone compared the new 61" NEC to the 61" Pioneers? I ask because I know that both share the same NEC glass and, perhaps, some of the same (if not all of the same) electronics and I was wondering if the new NEC was substantially better than last year's model and the present Pioneers.

.

How do you know they share the same glass?

I'd doubt the electronics are the same or even shared (just speculating here) as both companies have a "proprietary" reputation for quality electronics.

Don't misread that, I'm not saying they make their own chips. :)

How do you know they share the same glass?

I'd doubt the electronics are the same or even shared (just speculating here) as both companies have a "proprietary" reputation for quality electronics.

Don't misread that, I'm not saying they make their own chips. :)

If I'm not mistaken, only NEC presently makes 61" glass, Cpcat. (Much in the same way as Hitachi is the only present producer of 55" glass, Samsung is the only present producer of 63" glass and Panasonic is the only present producer of 65" glass.) As for the electronics, I believe that there may have been posts on other threads by owners who have suggested that some of the internal components are the same and that - at least in the past - the panels may actually come off of a shared assembly line. Since Pioneer purchased NEC's plasma division a while ago, I can't imagine that Pioneer hasn't been integrating the use of common components across their plasma lines. That would seem to be a no-brainer, especially for a company that is striving mightily to achieve better economies of scale and reduce (and, hopefully, eliminate) financial losses in its plasma division.

Sounds reasonable to me. I guess that would mean the Fuji 63 uses Samsung glass. I was aware already that the Fuji 55 was Hitachi glass.

Somewhere back in this thread there was someone who posted a phone call from an NEC rep regarding the Pio purchase. The rep's reply indicated that the pdp manufacturing divisions would be kept completely separate at least for the short term. Just words, though, and it may or may not have been a source from high up.

Sounds reasonable to me. I guess that would mean the Fuji 63 uses Samsung glass. I was aware already that the Fuji 55 was Hitachi glass.

Somewhere back in this thread there was someone who posted a phone call from an NEC rep regarding the Pio purchase. The rep's reply indicated that the pdp manufacturing divisions would be kept completely separate at least for the short term. Just words, though, and it may or may not have been a source from high up.

I do believe that the Fuji 63 does use the Samsung glass.

As for the NEC rep's comments, they fly in the face of comments made by the CEO of Pioneer, who last fall and this winter commented in several interviews that they are rapidly pursuing integration of the technologies and manufacturing facilities and of the 2 formerly separate plasma divisions.

Here's an example of the press releases that were sent out at the time the acquisition was announced:

http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=6431

(Pioneer's shareholders have been VERY frustrated with the company's financial losses - especially over the past 2 years - and, until Pioneer acquired NEC's plasma division, they were particularly focused on Pioneer's poor financial performance in the plasma sector.)

Here's an example of the kinds of pressures that Pioneer is confronting in the plasma market, generally, and the "road" it may attempt to follow to remain competitive in the plasma display industry:

http://nikkeibp.jp/wcs/leaf/CID/onair/nbe/features/368205

What the NEC rep probably meant to say was that Pioneer did not intend to stop producing NEC "branded" plasma products. After all, each brand has its own following.

I went to a local boutique A/V store yesterday and saw the 42XR4 personally. They didn't have either the XR5 or XM5 in stock, but when they told me how much they were charging for the XR4 (last year's model - right?), I knew I wasn't going to be buying from them.

Anyway, all I can say is WOW. When I walked up to the display, it was showing A Bug's Life in all it's Pixar created glory. The associate asked me if I wanted to see some live action footage, and of course I obliged. He popped in The Matrix, and called up the scene where the Nebakanezzer is hiding from the sentinels (I myself would have chosen the Morpheus/Neo fight scene or the lobby gun battle, but to each their own).

Let me say that I've always felt that The Matrix Trilogy had a "grainy" look to it, something the Wachowski brothers purposely did to enhance the mood, if you will. Well, it looked great.

I'm taking the wife to dinner tonight, butter her up with good food and wine, I'm going to present my argument in a logical fashion, and if she vetoes me, I'll override it anyway. :D

Thanks for hanging in there with me. I just need to decide the answer to two questions:

1) XR5 or XM5? :D

2) What is a good up-converting DVD player to connect to the NECs? I've been considering the Sony 400 DVD mega-changer (model 995), but I've also heard nice things about the Oppo as well. **Edit** - I've been told that the internal processor is better than an up-converting player, so I guess that settles that. :cool:

**Double Edit** - My Harmony 880 was just delivered, I'm on a roll!

I went to a local boutique A/V store yesterday and saw the 42XR4 personally. They didn't have either the XR5 or XM5 in stock, but when they told me how much they were charging for the XR4 (last year's model - right?), I knew I wasn't going to be buying from them.

Actually, the 42XR4 is this years 42 model. The 50XR5 and 50XM5 are the current 50's. I believe you were looking at the current one and not last years.

2) What is a good up-converting DVD player to connect to the NECs? I've been considering the Sony 400 DVD mega-changer (model 995), but I've also heard nice things about the Oppo as well. **Edit** - I've been told that the internal processor is better than an up-converting player, so I guess that settles that. :cool:
Boss, was just about to hit send on a response when I saw your edit. Believe most will agree the NEC processor will match/beat most upconverters. I use a Panny RP82 progressive with my XR5A, component input. Though a bit dated, the RP82 has a good (Faroudja) conversion circuit. When I compare the 480i/480p, there is slightly better performance with the 480i (where the NEC is doing all the conversion work), though PQ in both cases is excellent. I'm approaching 300hrs on the XR5A.

I went to a local boutique A/V store yesterday and saw the 42XR4 personally. They didn't have either the XR5 or XM5 in stock, but when they told me how much they were charging for the XR4 (last year's model - right?), I knew I wasn't going to be buying from them.

Anyway, all I can say is WOW. When I walked up to the display, it was showing A Bug's Life in all it's Pixar created glory. The associate asked me if I wanted to see some live action footage, and of course I obliged. He popped in The Matrix, and called up the scene where the Nebakanezzer is hiding from the sentinels (I myself would have chosen the Morpheus/Neo fight scene or the lobby gun battle, but to each their own).

Let me say that I've always felt that The Matrix Trilogy had a "grainy" look to it, something the Wachowski brothers purposely did to enhance the mood, if you will. Well, it looked great.

I'm taking the wife to dinner tonight, butter her up with good food and wine, I'm going to present my argument in a logical fashion, and if she vetoes me, I'll override it anyway. :D

Thanks for hanging in there with me. I just need to decide the answer to two questions:

1) XR5 or XM5? :D

2) What is a good up-converting DVD player to connect to the NECs? I've been considering the Sony 400 DVD mega-changer (model 995), but I've also heard nice things about the Oppo as well. **Edit** - I've been told that the internal processor is better than an up-converting player, so I guess that settles that. :cool:

**Double Edit** - My Harmony 880 was just delivered, I'm on a roll!

--------------

Nice! I got the 50 XR5 and the Harmony 880. Both great devices. I'm amazed at the Harmony, very cool indeed! oh...and the NEC, you won't be disappointed about that one either

Actually, the 42XR4 is this years 42 model. The 50XR5 and 50XM5 are the current 50's. I believe you were looking at the current one and not last years.

I saw that on NEC's site after I posted. :)

Either way, they wanted more for the 42XR4 than I can get the 50XR5 for...:eek:

Okay - this is what I've come up with so far, please let me know if I am wrong:

50XR5 -

2 Component (accepts up to 1080p)
2 HDMI (accepts up to 1080p)
1 VGA
1 BNC
Assorted analog connections that I won't use
Comes with speakers and tabletop stand
3 year warranty

50XM5 -

1 Component (accepts up to 1080p)
1 DVI (accepts up to 1080p)
1 VGA
1 BNC
Assorted analog connections that I won't use
Comes with speakers and tabletop stand
1 year warranty

I have the 42xr4 and it does not come with speakers. I don't think that the 50 inch does either. You can likely purchase them separately.

Hi, has anyone yet compared the new 42" Panasonic px60 to the 42XR4?

Okay - this is what I've come up with so far, please let me know if I am wrong:

50XR5 -

2 Component (accepts up to 1080p)
2 HDMI (accepts up to 1080p)
1 VGA
1 BNC
Assorted analog connections that I won't use
Comes with speakers and tabletop stand
3 year warranty

50XM5 -

1 Component (accepts up to 1080p)
1 DVI (accepts up to 1080p)
1 VGA
1 BNC
Assorted analog connections that I won't use
Comes with speakers and tabletop stand
1 year warranty

Boss, none of the models come with speakers and a stand. Those are separate. The HDMI's on the XR5 will only accept 1080i (maybe 1080p24, but not 1080p60) - cpcat chime in here, I know you've probably said it 1,000 times, but I just forget :)

other than that I think your right.

The XM5 doesn't come with the stand or speakers. You can order them separately. The XM5 has 2 component inputs, you just have to get the BNC - RCA adapters for the second input.

Boss, none of the models come with speakers and a stand. Those are separate. The HDMI's on the XR5 will only accept 1080i (maybe 1080p24, but not 1080p60) - cpcat chime in here, I know you've probably said it 1,000 times, but I just forget :)

other than that I think your right.

It won't do 1080p24sf. 1080p24 may be possible as that is a listed ATSC resolution. The reason I say this is that my Lumagen VP can be configured to output 1080p24sf (which I did) and I tried it but it was a no go. The VP can't be configured for 1080p24 AFAIK. Maybe an email to NEC might be in order.

Either way, with 1080i 3:2 detection, it likely won't make much of a difference. The NEC should detect the 3:2 and reconstruct the original 1080p24 anyway....

Hi, has anyone yet compared the new 42" Panasonic px60 to the 42XR4?


I've heard of folks with orders in, but I've not heard of any owners of the new px60's yet. I'd say it will be awhile before you'll get a comparison.

I had a few. Never got the chance to crack one open......


http://i7.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/71/46/70_1.JPG

There is no dought that the NEC will still be leading the way. I have already heard comments that the new 9th generation Panasonics look about the same as the 8th generation. There for why not choose something that stands alone in the same price category, after all the NEC is in competition with the 600U not the just released 60U.

Dangerous? :)

Well, OK, so I exaggerated a bit; I admit it's not dangerous.

Thanks for the clarification. I just wanted to make sure I was not missing something obvious re Avia. Just as you have noted, I find that the variability in PQ in relation to source, e.g., HD vs SD, satellite vs OTA, one HD channel vs another, etc., is huge. For this reason, and because I find that, after reducing brightness quite a bit and reducing contrast just a hair compared to the default settings but with zero other adjustments, my set looks so spectacular on the best of the HD broadcasts that I am loathe to fuss with it any further. On the best quality HD, I simply cannot imagine the image could get any closer to "real" than it already appears to be, using (almost only) default settings. Too bad there are entirely too few HD channels.

I'm glad you guys clarified that... ever since I used cpcat's settings, I've been afraid to turn on my set for fear of radiation poisoning or some other catastrophic incident.

LOL. :)

I told you they looked a little "hot" to me. :D

I've been playing with my settings quite a bit since we started this settings chat, and I have come to the conclusion that I like the Brightness set way lower than the default. I have it set at 16. Here are my current settings:

Contrast 40
Brightness 16
Sharpness 10
Color 30
Tint 32
Picture mode - Theater 1
NR - 2
Color Temp - High
All White Balance settings at 40
Gamma 1
Low Tone Auto
Color Tune Default
PLE-Auto

These settings seem to make the XM5 look the most "realistic and 3D" at least for me.

YMMV,
Mark

I love how different all of our settings are...it reflects the different tastes/perception/setups...as it should be!! I have to ask though, do you guys really like the NR? I see you have it set at NR-2. I've messed with this for a while and came to the conclusion it takes away TOO much detail for me. It may be good with SD to smooth out the noise, but on a good OTA channel, it takes away too much detail for me. Any other thoughts?

Tony, I really don't notice much difference with the NR. That is the one setting in my setup that I keep playing with a lot just seeing if I see anything.

Tony, I really don't notice much difference with the NR. That is the one setting in my setup that I keep playing with a lot just seeing if I see anything.

I tested it by pausing close up scenes on quality OTA feeds and then looking for any differences. For example, I noticed the NR took away pores on peoples faces that I could see with it off. Give it a shot..

The Noise Reduction (NR) works great for SD, DVDs and PS2 games for me. I don't like the setting on good quality HD.

I've been playing with my settings quite a bit since we started this settings chat, and I have come to the conclusion that I like the Brightness set way lower than the default. I have it set at 16. Here are my current settings:

Contrast 40
Brightness 16
Sharpness 10
Color 30
Tint 32
Picture mode - Theater 1
NR - 2
Color Temp - High
All White Balance settings at 40
Gamma 1
Low Tone Auto
Color Tune Default
PLE-Auto

These settings seem to make the XM5 look the most "realistic and 3D" at least for me.

YMMV,
Mark

Interesting. From that brightness setting it would seem your component black level may be defaulted for PC input level. You are using component input, right? Speculating a bit here but that would explain why you must turn it down so low. With the XR5, setting setup level (pedestal) to 3.75 or 7.5 compensates for this with component input. Either that or you just prefer a darker picture.

FYI if all the white balance settings are 40 this is equivalent to color temp of "mid" at least it is on the XR5. In other words, you've set the "high" setting to the equivalent default settings for "mid". I don't think there is anything specific to "high" or "mid-low" or whatever other than the values themselves. It also seems that you can save custom values for "high" for example and these become memory-specific. This give you up to 4 custom temperature settings for each memory. Pretty cool. :)

As far as NR is concerned, for me NR-2 cuts down on background dithering (easily seen in red backgrounds), but still preserves detail. NR-3 almost eliminates dithering but at the expense of loss of fine detail and this is especially evident in faces.

cpcat,

I'm not sure about the component input being defaulted to PC, as I don't see any way of changing that. All I know is that with the settings the way I listed above, I have a pretty bright, realistic looking, beautiful picture with nice dark black levels, but still good detail in the shadows. I agree with you about the NR. I like NR-1 or NR-2. With it turned off, it seems like there is too much dithering in the picture. But everyone has their own preferences. Whatever looks best to the individual. Probably all sets aren't calibrated the same as well, some may be hotter than others in color and brightness levels, eventhough the settings values are set identical.

Also, thanks for the white balance setting tip. I had no idea that all I was doing was modifying High to look like mid. I did a default reset on all the settings for the white level, and decided I like mid best.

Okay - this is what I've come up with so far, please let me know if I am wrong:

50XR5 -

2 Component (accepts up to 1080p)
2 HDMI (accepts up to 1080p)
1 VGA
1 BNC
Assorted analog connections that I won't use
Comes with speakers and tabletop stand
3 year warranty

50XM5 -

1 Component (accepts up to 1080p)
1 DVI (accepts up to 1080p)
1 VGA
1 BNC
Assorted analog connections that I won't use
Comes with speakers and tabletop stand
1 year warranty

I don't know about the XM5, but I can tell you the XR5 does not have a BNC input

I don't know about the XM5, but I can tell you the XR5 does not have a BNC input

The XM5 does have a BNC, but can be used as a component input by getting BNC-RCA converters at Radio Shack.

The XM5 does have a BNC, but can be used as a component input by getting BNC-RCA converters at Radio Shack.

and the picture quality would be as good?

and the picture quality would be as good?


Yes, just as good. I use this input for DVD.

:) thank you mucho!

Or just buy cables with BNC on one end and rca on the other from a place like bluejeanscable. They're very inexpensive.

I am in the market for a new Display - While I would like one today I can hang on for a few months(Fall if need be).

I currently have a Panny 42 6UY for my main set and find the picture remarkable - even almost 3 years later - folks that visit me are oftne blown away by the PIC - even those that have much higher end sets. So no complaints there - will be moved to bedroom and continue to serve faithfully.

Really am hankering after a bigger set. However, :(, have a few constraints! I can accomodate somewhere between a 42 and perhaps 55 in. (Have a chief two arm heavy duty articulating mount that is used). Sit aprox 9-10' back.

Needs:
*50" or bigger
*Best PQ (3-4K can get me) particular about blacks, banding, motion artifacts
*Hook Up HTPC(Mac at 1080p) MUST accept 1080P digitally(DVI/HDMI) - needs good scaler
*Hang on wall - using chief mount - under 150 lbs - will get converter plate if needed
*HDCP compliant on at least 1 digitial DVI/HDMI input
*HIGHLY prefer a simple balck frame without any silver/aluminum etc

Do not care about tuners, speakers or number of DVI/HDMI inputs as I will use a switcher anyways(have too many components!) Do not care about remote(have harmony).

Do care about picture adjusmtnets - individual adjustments per input and type.
Am concerned that I wll future (and now) hook up one of my MAC's for content(movies/pictures etc) and need to output 1080P60 so display needs to accept.

Narrowed it down to PLasma(can't hang DLP - see rainbows), LCD - not big enough. Like plasma anyways:)

Narrowed it down (thanks to the wealth of information on AVS) to NEC XM5/Xr5, Panny 9th gen commercial(fall) or possible pioneer in fall (probably well out of price range) unless street drops considerably.Not gonna!!!

So help - which one should I get/wait for?
Does the NEC actually take 1080p(like from a MAC) on the DVI input?
How good is the scaling from the 1080p down to the native res?
Does anyone know if the Comm Panny will accept 1080p(hearing conflicting - I know wrong thread - but thought I'd ask;))
Should I just wait fro a true 1080p display like the Pioneer - is it really worth the probably 3K increase over current 50 inchers to get true 1080p display versus just accepting 1080p?
Should I go down in size and just get a LCD 1080p is the PQ even close?

HELP!!!!! I have read all 55+ pages of this thread, the Panny thread, the Pioneer thread, the various lcd(sharp etc) threads and am confused. I need this set to last a few years - 3-4.

You guys helped me last time and I ended up with the stellar Panny 6UY - Am counting on your help again!!!

Thanks :p :p :p
Therese

Well I finally have the XR5. I put it up on the wall last night and started off with cpcat's bright setting. It is a beautiful piece and so far I am very happy with the picture quality. This has really been a big project as I moved the fireplace from the wall where the NEC is now into the corner. I put up drywall to cover the old hole and did the rock work for the new fireplace location. I still have to hook up the HTPC in the AV closet behind the wall, so I have yet to see DVDs on the NEC.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v467/verthandi1/Fireplace/?action=view&current=P1010070.jpg

Do care about picture adjusmtnets - individual adjustments per input and type.
Am concerned that I wll future (and now) hook up one of my MAC's for content(movies/pictures etc) and need to output 1080P60 so display needs to accept.


If this is your ceiteria then the NEC XM5A is the only way to go. Yes, it will accept 1080p60 through the DVI input.

FYI- No, the Panny will not accept 1080p60. Don't get me wrong Panasonic makes a great product but I was in the same boat as you 2 months ago and found the XM5A as a better value over the commercial Panny (accepts 1080p, more inputs, will stretch 4:3 HD, better adjustability).

Well I finally have the XR5. I put it up on the wall last night and started off with cpcat's bright setting. It is a beautiful piece and so far I am very happy with the picture quality. This has really been a big project as I moved the fireplace from the wall where the NEC is now into the corner. I put up drywall to cover the old hole and did the rock work for the new fireplace location. I still have to hook up the HTPC in the AV closet behind the wall, so I have yet to see DVDs on the NEC.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v467/verthandi1/Fireplace/?action=view&current=P1010070.jpg

Wow. My hat is certainly off to you. Looks great!

Should I just wait fro a true 1080p display like the Pioneer - is it really worth the probably 3K increase over current 50 inchers to get true 1080p display versus just accepting 1080p?
Should I go down in size and just get a LCD 1080p is the PQ even close?


Thanks :p :p :p
Therese

For a 50 inch display, assuming you'll be at a distance of 8ft or greater, no reason to worry about 1080p screen resolution. I'm sure the new Pio will be a great display regardless, but not necessarily due to it's screen resolution and the problem is you'll pay a premium just for that aspect.

1080p60 or 1080p24 input support over DVI/HDMI does have potential advantages, though. BD/HD-DVD adopters will benefit as will HTPC users such as yourself. 1080i input from BD will be just as good assuming the display has quality 1080i inverse telecine to convert to 1080p24 inside the display. I believe that will be the case for us XR5 owners. I'm not optimistic about our chances for 1080p24 input support over HDMI although it remains a possibility. 1080p60 is supported over DVI w/HDCP on the XM5.

Now is a great time to buy 768p plasma IMO. I think LCD will leave you wanting for a more realistic picture especially if you are accustomed to plasma already.

Well I finally have the XR5. I put it up on the wall last night and started off with cpcat's bright setting. It is a beautiful piece and so far I am very happy with the picture quality. This has really been a big project as I moved the fireplace from the wall where the NEC is now into the corner. I put up drywall to cover the old hole and did the rock work for the new fireplace location. I still have to hook up the HTPC in the AV closet behind the wall, so I have yet to see DVDs on the NEC.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v467/verthandi1/Fireplace/?action=view&current=P1010070.jpg

I have to congratulate you. Not only does the installation of the display look great, but also you did a wonderful job with that fireplace.

Enjoy that great panel of yours!

If this is your ceiteria then the NEC XM5A is the only way to go. Yes, it will accept 1080p60 through the DVI input.

FYI- No, the Panny will not accept 1080p60. Don't get me wrong Panasonic makes a great product but I was in the same boat as you 2 months ago and found the XM5A as a better value over the commercial Panny (accepts 1080p, more inputs, will stretch 4:3 HD, better adjustability).

Thanks for the input! Do you have an HTPC or some other 1080p source hooked up? Have you fed this a true 1080p signal - how was the scaling?

I know the current (8uk) Panny won't accept 1080p - was questioning whether the new one would. How did you find that out - I have been looking everywhere:)

Figured somebody had to be in the same boat ;) Especially since I have a Panny - and have never regretted it at all - just a great pic and great control over the PQ.

When you say better adjustability - can you elaborate - very familiar with what I can do with my Panny - so feel free to get detailed:)

How about reflectivity of the glass? About the only minor (and I do minor) issue I have with my Pannny is that it's in a room full of glass on the west side(and I live in AZ!) so afternoon without the shades drawn makes this a slightly difficult beast to see. Any improvement - well - would be an improvement!

One of the things I really like about my Panny is its ability to show SD with a really good pic. Certainly not HD like - but way better than even most CRT's. Were you able to compare the XM5 in that regard? How did it fare?
I am struggling a bit with the value proposition as the XM5 sems to be about 600 more chesseburgers - not a showstopper - but in the back of my mind. Anything you could add so that the value proposition could be properly articulated to my SO:) would be very appreciated.

Okay - I'll stop with the questions...but this will be a sight unseen buy for me as I have not found this unit locally - and I am relying on the trusy AVS folks to steer me right!
Thanks
Therese

For a 50 inch display, assuming you'll be at a distance of 8ft or greater, no reason to worry about 1080p screen resolution. I'm sure the new Pio will be a great display regardless, but not necessarily due to it's screen resolution and the problem is you'll pay a premium just for that aspect.

1080p60 or 1080p24 input support over DVI/HDMI does have potential advantages, though. BD/HD-DVD adopters will benefit as will HTPC users such as yourself. 1080i input from BD will be just as good assuming the display has quality 1080i inverse telecine to convert to 1080p24 inside the display. I believe that will be the case for us XR5 owners. I'm not optimistic about our chances for 1080p24 input support over HDMI although it remains a possibility. 1080p60 is supported over DVI w/HDCP on the XM5.

Now is a great time to buy 768p plasma IMO. I think LCD will leave you wanting for a more realistic picture especially if you are accustomed to plasma already.

Thanks for the reply. I was kinda thinking the same thing re seating distance and 1080p. Remember the discussion several years ago re ED/HD at 10ft and after exhaustively checking it out for myself - came to the conclusion that if you are not close enoug/display is not big enough - all other PQ is relative - then higher resolution does not mean a fantastically better picture. This of course goes out the window the larger the display - for me the sweet spot of the 720p sets seems to be around 50 inches. Reagrdless of DLP/Plasma etc. Anyways...

You mentioned the "1080i inverse telecine to convert to 1080p24 inside the display" - could you talk more about that? Not sure I totally got it. How would you rate the XR5's ability reagrding this? Would it be the same for the XM5?

I am not sure I even understand the methodology of allowing 1080p over component (XR5) as it appears pretty difficult to find a source with that transport - and then of the course there is the whole HDCP thing.

But am sorta concerned that the NEC scaler will be able to handle a 1080p signal and scale it back without all kinds of issues....Any thoughts?

I think given the couple of responses I have - that the XM5 is the way to go - just trying to nail down the litttle "sticklers" in my head so that I can part with all this cash:) I want to do it tomorrow(figuratively speaking) - but want to make sure I did enough homework so that I would not regret this decision 6 months from now. Don't care about a year from now - there will always be bigger, better, cheaper - just want to be relatively okay and meet what I know are my currents needs/wants and some future proofing - re HD DVD/HTPC.

Am tempted on the LCD - have one in my bedroom now(27) and checked out the Sharp 45 last year. Returned it.Was pretty awesome - But do a fair amount of movie watching - in the dark...and find the LCD to be lacking there. Having expanses of gray/black without detail kills it for me. Do like the LCD's for just about everything else. And I really/really/really want a larger set:) So probably gonna stick with the plasma!

Thanks tons for the help!!!!
Therese

You mentioned the "1080i inverse telecine to convert to 1080p24 inside the display" - could you talk more about that? Not sure I totally got it. How would you rate the XR5's ability reagrding this? Would it be the same for the XM5?

I am not sure I even understand the methodology of allowing 1080p over component (XR5) as it appears pretty difficult to find a source with that transport - and then of the course there is the whole HDCP thing.

But am sorta concerned that the NEC scaler will be able to handle a 1080p signal and scale it back without all kinds of issues....Any thoughts?


Therese

With 1080i from a film source it's possible to pick up the 3:2 sequence and reconstruct the original 1080p24 signal. It's then relaitvely simple frame duplication to 1080p60 followed by scaling to 768p. Alternatively, if the set accepts the 1080p24 directly you can skip the inverse telecine step and go straight to 1080p60. Finally, the 1080p24->1080p60 conversion can be done inside the player and input to the display if it accepts 1080p60. These are the three possibilities of what will happen with BD. As far as I can tell, the 1080i inverse telecine is excellent on the XR5 judging from the quality of 1080i film sources (CSI, Law and Order, etc., Cold Case, etc.) The XM5 should have the same abilities from what I can tell but will also be able to accept 1080p60 over DVI.

1080p60 over component will be useful if BD/HD-DVD will allow it over analog. I've heard various hopeful reports but I remain pessimistic over the possiblity.

I wouldn't worry about 1080p60 scaling. With true motion adaptive deinterlacing, it's already happening inside the display with any 1080i source i.e. everything is deinterlaced to 1080p60 followed by scaling to 768p anyway. 1080p60 processing should be a snap. This is the potential advantage of 1080p60 input.

My 50xm5 has run up quite a few hours since Super Bowl weekend when I installed it. Also, I believe any break-in periods are over. One interesting migration during break-in is that the picture has gotten greener so I finally decided to copy CPCAT's settings and give them a try. The first thing I noticed is that the 50xm5 has more color settings than Cpcat's XR4 including magenta. I found all of his settings beneficial on my Dish 811 HD reception except that I had to do my own thing to compensate for the green. This was a bit fun as I have not balanced colors like this since my days in a photo darkroom using Cibachrome filters. If I am reading things correct I think it a bit of an advantage to have more color setting options available on the XM5.

My 50xm5 has run up quite a few hours since Super Bowl weekend when I installed it. Also, I believe any break-in periods are over. One interesting migration during break-in is that the picture has gotten greener so I finally decided to copy CPCAT's settings and give them a try. The first thing I noticed is that the 50xm5 has more color settings than Cpcat's XR4 including magenta. I found all of his settings beneficial on my Dish 811 HD reception except that I had to do my own thing to compensate for the green. This was a bit fun as I have not balanced colors like this since my days in a photo darkroom using Cibachrome filters. If I am reading things correct I think it a bit of an advantage to have more color setting options available on the XM5.

The XR5 has the options under "color tune" for individual adjusment of red, green, blue, yellow, magenta, and cyan but for me I've found it best to leave them all at default.

With 1080i from a film source it's possible to pick up the 3:2 sequence and reconstruct the original 1080p24 signal. It's then relaitvely simple frame duplication to 1080p60 followed by scaling to 768p. Alternatively, if the set accepts the 1080p24 directly you can skip the inverse telecine step and go straight to 1080p60. Finally, the 1080p24->1080p60 conversion can be done inside the player and input to the display if it accepts 1080p60. These are the three possibilities of what will happen with BD. As far as I can tell, the 1080i inverse telecine is excellent on the XR5 judging from the quality of 1080i film sources (CSI, Law and Order, etc., Cold Case, etc.) The XM5 should have the same abilities from what I can tell but will also be able to accept 1080p60 over DVI.

1080p60 over component will be useful if BD/HD-DVD will allow it over analog. I've heard various hopeful reports but I remain pessimistic over the possiblity.

I wouldn't worry about 1080p60 scaling. With true motion adaptive deinterlacing, it's already happening inside the display with any 1080i source i.e. everything is deinterlaced to 1080p60 followed by scaling to 768p anyway. 1080p60 processing should be a snap. This is the potential advantage of 1080p60 input.

Had to read a few times to digest...but think I got it! Thanks:)

Theoretically if the XR5 accepts 1080p over component - shouldn't the XM5? Just a curiosity - as discussed - it may well be mute.

I think you have greatly alleviated my concerns over "future proofing". As I said earlier - less concerned over display - more concerned over input. And I have long since given up on the notion that today's sets will last "10 years" as did prior models. Not from a break/failure mode - more from the rapid change of technology...relatively speaking. SO assume this will move to somewhere else and ...if all works out...the new set will be there 3-5 years down the road.

Thanks Again!
Therese

One of the things I really like about my Panny is its ability to show SD with a really good pic. Certainly not HD like - but way better than even most CRT's. Were you able to compare the XM5 in that regard? How did it fare?


I think you will find most will agree the scaling in the NEC's is superior to that of the Panasonic. It is more in line with the Fujitsu and Pioneer Elits IMO.

I will second that Tony ;)

Okay, I finally had a chance to mess with the Bright setting you posted cpcat. I do have to say there is a bit deeper blacks with that setting. Definitely close, if not right on, with the Panny level. I did not notice any really "floating" of the blacks yet. cpcat, did you witness the blacks floating, or did you just presume that the Bright setting floats the blacks?

Anyways, below are the settings I've settled on. Cpcat, I think we must either have drastically different lighting and setups, or much different taste in colors. Either way is cool, that's what make it individual preferences. Figured I'd post what I settled on for the Bright setting for anyone who wants to try them out. The below is using HDMI with my HR10-250 and SA8300HD.

Contrast 42
Brightness 30
Sharpness 0
Color 32
Tint 32
NR Off for HD material, will sometimes throw on NR2 for SD
Color Temp Mid-Low
GR 30
GG 31
GB 32
BR 38
BG 36
BB 35
Cinema Mode On
Pic Mode Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low Tone Auto
Setup Level 0%
Color Tune - All Default

Okay, I finally had a chance to mess with the Bright setting you posted cpcat. I do have to say there is a bit deeper blacks with that setting. Definitely close, if not right on, with the Panny level. I did not notice any really "floating" of the blacks yet. cpcat, did you witness the blacks floating, or did you just presume that the Bright setting floats the blacks?

Anyways, below are the settings I've settled on. Cpcat, I think we must either have drastically different lighting and setups, or much different taste in colors. Either way is cool, that's what make it individual preferences. Figured I'd post what I settled on for the Bright setting for anyone who wants to try them out. The below is using HDMI with my HR10-250 and SA8300HD.

Contrast 42
Brightness 30
Sharpness 0
Color 32
Tint 32
NR Off for HD material, will sometimes throw on NR2 for SD
Color Temp Mid-Low
GR 30
GG 31
GB 32
BR 38
BG 36
BB 35
Cinema Mode On
Pic Mode Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low Tone Auto
Setup Level 0%
Color Tune - All Default

I haven't noticed any "shifting blacks". I have just assumed Bright utilizes DCE which is a way to cheat for overall lower blacks. I don't notice it much on the Panny either. Sometimes, I'll see a little shift, but this seems to happen with Normal or Theater 1 as well so I think it's the source and not the display.

I don't think it's our color tastes which are different. The difference is in contrast/black level and color temperature. Could be taste or it could be equipment. I'm assuming we both have HDMI to "high" in the setup menu. The color temp values for RGB gain effect white balance (related to contrast setting) while the RGB bias values effect black level (related to brightness). Your RGB gain values are overall lower and cooler (higher in temperature, towards blue). The lower overall values also lower the relative white level.
Your slightly lower RGB bias should shift the bottom of the grey scale towards black, especially in the higher temperature range.

So your settings really are "cool" relative to mine. :)

Your preference for NR off with HD probably reflects a better source signal with cable. I have D*. It's also possible you are seeing less noise with lower white level/contrast settings.
I think I could turn it off or go to NR1 with OTA HD but I tend to just leave it at NR2.

Wow. My hat is certainly off to you. Looks great!

Thanks to you for the settings. I'm sure you spent many an hour getting these settings so that somone like me can spend a few minutes setting them up and enjoying it sooner. :)

I installed my HTPC in the A/V closet a few hours ago. I used the RGB/PC input and set the display up for 1360x768. I had to add an Sony external DVD unit in the sideboad under the plasma. The closet is right behind the wall with the plasma and I snaked the 1394 cable to the PC. So the only A/V equipment in the sideboard is the external DVD, the I/R repeater and the Gyration wireless unit for keyboard and mouse.

After I got it all hooked up, I popped in SW Ep III to watch the opening scenes. It's always looked pretty darn nice on my 42" ED Fujitsu, but the bigger size and the colors on the XR5 just blew me away. I was afraid that going from the ED Fujitsu to the bigger HD NEC might make the DVDs look a bit less sharp. But I didn't need to worry, it was well worth it. I'm using the WinDVD player software so my next upgrade will be the Theater Tek software player. I'm hoping that will get me even better results.

T I'm using the WinDVD player software so my next upgrade will be the Theater Tek software player. I'm hoping that will get me even better results.

I just received my 61XR4 on Monday.

I have it hooked up to an Xbox360, SA8300HD, and my HTPC via VGA. I use TT as my DVD player on the HTPC, and with only minimal setup, the PQ is quite good.

I plan to spend the weekend tweaking and will report back once I'm done. One thing I have noticed so far is that Low Tone set to Error Diffusion seems to provide the best results for me so far.

For those of you who don't read the calibration forum, you should check out the calibration DVD thread. The one that has been developed is really much easier to use than any of the others out there.

More info is also available at www.calibrate.tv .

Thanks for the input! Do you have an HTPC or some other 1080p source hooked up? Have you fed this a true 1080p signal - how was the scaling?

I am still in the process of setup. No, I haven't had the chance to feed it 1080p yet but read back in the thread for those that have. Both DVI and component 1 will accept 1080p on the XM5. My house will be done in 4 weeks and I will get everything hooked up then. Right now I just have DVD and Dish Network hooked up.

I know the current (8uk) Panny won't accept 1080p - was questioning whether the new one would. How did you find that out - I have been looking everywhere:)

I read it on the 60 series Panny thread and looked at a spec sheet.


When you say better adjustability - can you elaborate - very familiar with what I can do with my Panny - so feel free to get detailed:)

There are just a lot more picture adjustments without having to go to a service menu. There are too many to name. Maybe I can take some screen shots of my setup screens to show you.

How about reflectivity of the glass? About the only minor (and I do minor) issue I have with my Pannny is that it's in a room full of glass on the west side(and I live in AZ!) so afternoon without the shades drawn makes this a slightly difficult beast to see. Any improvement - well - would be an improvement!

It states an anti-reflective screen but how anti-reflective can glass be? I'm sure it just has a thin film on it like any plasma these days. I can't tell you if it is better than what you have but I haven't noticed a lot of glare.

One of the things I really like about my Panny is its ability to show SD with a really good pic. Certainly not HD like - but way better than even most CRT's. Were you able to compare the XM5 in that regard? How did it fare?
I am struggling a bit with the value proposition as the XM5 sems to be about 600 more chesseburgers - not a showstopper - but in the back of my mind. Anything you could add so that the value proposition could be properly articulated to my SO:) would be very appreciated.

Most anyone will agree that the scaler in the NEC is superior. It is the strength of this set, it rivals Fujitsu in this area. SD looks really, really good. You will also be able to stretch 4:3 HD material that is not possible with Panny. I don't know where you got the price but it is cheaper than any consumer 50" Panny and can be had at about the same price the the commercial Panny. Value comes into play when you won't need to buy any $180 input boards, can accept 1080p source, and can stretch 4:3 HD material.

Anybody know NEC's pixel policy? I went through their website and instruction manuals. The only thing they say they dont cover is image retention and buzzing sounds.

I'm very interested in pulling the trigger on the XR5 but im terrified of spending that much money and getting a unit with a dead pixel that can be seen from viewing distance. I searched this whole thread and only found 1 person so far wtih a dead pixel. Are there any more?

Anybody know NEC's pixel policy? I went through their website and instruction manuals. The only thing they say they dont cover is image retention and buzzing sounds.

I'm very interested in pulling the trigger on the XR5 but im terrified of spending that much money and getting a unit with a dead pixel that can be seen from viewing distance. I searched this whole thread and only found 1 person so far wtih a dead pixel. Are there any more?

Unfortunately, I have a dead pixel on mine. I contacted my dealer and he contacted NEC and got the official dead pixel policy. I don't have the document on this computer but essentially the policy is:

Always on defect: < 0.00025% = no return.
Always off defect: <0.00075% = no return. I can't remember if this is the exact number but it is definitely higher than the always on number.

Note that they actually count sub-pixels for this math and a single pixel, or three sub pixels, will not be eligible.

My dealer asked me to send a picture with the location on the screen and he would take it up with NEC since in their reply to him they said that they would evaluate any specific claim.

Unfortunately, I have a dead pixel on mine. I contacted my dealer and he contacted NEC and got the official dead pixel policy. I don't have the document on this computer but essentially the policy is:

Always on defect: < 0.00025% = no return.
Always off defect: <0.00075% = no return. I can't remember if this is the exact number but it is definitely higher than the always on number.

Note that they actually count sub-pixels for this math and a single pixel, or three sub pixels, will not be eligible.

My dealer asked me to send a picture with the location on the screen and he would take it up with NEC since in their reply to him they said that they would evaluate any specific claim.

I can tell you that NEC is great in this regard. I had one dead pixel that was extremely noticable on my first VR5 and when I sent them a digital picture to show this, I had an email back from them the next day confirming a new VR5 was already sent....I was truely amazed! Then to make matters even better (or worse at the time) the replacement had a flashing pixel (don't let this scare you, I think there was just a small batch of the VR5's that had this problem in the beginning) so I called them up. Again they asked for some pics; and again within 1 day I was informed another was on the way. They told me to just call when I am satisfied with the panel and they will come pick-up the rest. I have actually NEVER experienced such good customer service. It was really remarkable.

Great products with great service, what more can you ask for? Can you tell NEC's got me hooked? :D

I don't have the document on this computer but essentially the policy is:

Always on defect: < 0.00025% = no return.
Always off defect: <0.00075% = no return. I can't remember if this is the exact number but it is definitely higher than the always on number.

Note that they actually count sub-pixels for this math and a single pixel, or three sub pixels, will not be eligible.


Sorry to hear that you got a dead pixel. Can you see it from viewing distance?

Ok ... so according to my math (and its usually wrong :P ) you would need atleast 8 stuck pixels or 24 dead pixels before they consider an exchange ???

Sorry to hear that you got a dead pixel. Can you see it from viewing distance?

Ok ... so according to my math (and its usually wrong :P ) you would need atleast 8 stuck pixels or 24 dead pixels before they consider an exchange ???

Yes, if you look for it you can see it.

If you divide by 3 to turn pixels into subpixels I think you get the correct number.

Just wanted to give props to Plasma Concepts.. I received my 50XR5 on Saturday and can't wait to put it up.

I initially decided to buy from them because they had a 30 day no questions asked return policy on this unit. I was a bit leery of buying this item sight unseen and wanted the protection of being able to exchange if not happy.

The set was on backorder for a while, but when it did come in, I was promptly contacted and the item was shipped the same day I paid for it.

My delivery company was DHL/Danzas and they were a pleasure to work with.

Truly a 1st class experience all the way around..

Now I've just got to get it installed!

So I am sitting here waiting.... my 50XR5 should be here within the next hour or so I am going over my "Launch Sequence". Suppose I use "cpcat or Tony17 settings" as my initial setting for my "Break In" hours will that be ok? or should I take those setting and still decrease the contrast and brightness?

It is okay to set your TV to these settings to show you how briliant the picture can be but for the most part decrease the brightness and contrast for the first 100 hours.

Tony17: Thanks for sharing your settings. For some reason, they make my 42 seem quite dark. I actually like a "cooler" picture so I thought they would work but the lower brightness and contrast makes a difference on my panel.

Lumagen came out with another software update for my VP so I downloaded the upgrades and tried the VP again. The upgrades were for improved motion adaptive deinterlacing for 1080i sources as well as color performance and a few other bug fixes.

Well, I'm switching it back again. Still not as good as straight to the display.

Oh well. Anyone want to buy a VP?

I'll likely not have any luck selling it on this thread. ;)

What are you folks setting for IR on 50XR5 or:
Advanced OSM
and the
PDP Saver Menu

What are you folks setting for IR on 50XR5 or:
Advanced OSM
and the
PDP Saver Menu

I keep my OSM contrast at low.

For the orbiter, I keep my PC input on auto 2 as it makes it slightly larger than the screen (more overscan).

For DVD and TV input, I leave the orbiter off.

I have >500 hours though. Early on, you might consider turning the orbiter on.
I'm sure it's fine to leave it on even after you have more hours on the panel as well for added piece of mind. I don't think it really matters which auto setting you use, but the auto 1 should give you a little less overscan if that matters to you.

Okay, I finally had a chance to mess with the Bright setting you posted cpcat. I do have to say there is a bit deeper blacks with that setting. Definitely close, if not right on, with the Panny level. I did not notice any really "floating" of the blacks yet. cpcat, did you witness the blacks floating, or did you just presume that the Bright setting floats the blacks?

Anyways, below are the settings I've settled on. Cpcat, I think we must either have drastically different lighting and setups, or much different taste in colors. Either way is cool, that's what make it individual preferences. Figured I'd post what I settled on for the Bright setting for anyone who wants to try them out. The below is using HDMI with my HR10-250 and SA8300HD.

Contrast 42
Brightness 30
Sharpness 0
Color 32
Tint 32
NR Off for HD material, will sometimes throw on NR2 for SD
Color Temp Mid-Low
GR 30
GG 31
GB 32
BR 38
BG 36
BB 35
Cinema Mode On
Pic Mode Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low Tone Auto
Setup Level 0%
Color Tune - All Default

Where do I input the following? I can input everything else but I do not see below no where...

GR 30
GG 31
GB 32
BR 38
BG 36
BB 35

Thanks in advance.

Where do I input the following? I can input everything else but I do not see below no where...

GR 30
GG 31
GB 32
BR 38
BG 36
BB 35

Thanks in advance.

Highlight a color temp i.e. mid or mid-low and press enter. This will bring up a sub-menu with the individual adjustments available. To make it stick, you need to highlight the memory setting, press enter, then highlight "set" and press enter.

Always on defect: < 0.00025% = no return.
Always off defect: <0.00075% = no return. I can't remember if this is the exact number but it is definitely higher than the always on number.

Just confirmed that the always off number is 0.00095%

Click on the Mid-Low and it will bring up the menu for the Gain and Bias settings.

So I am sitting here waiting.... my 50XR5 should be here within the next hour or so I am going over my "Launch Sequence". Suppose I use "cpcat or Tony17 settings" as my initial setting for my "Break In" hours will that be ok? or should I take those setting and still decrease the contrast and brightness?

As long as you keep static images and black bars to a minimum, enjoy. If you feel like you are likely to forget or other family members will be using the set while you're away, practice more precautions.

I use the screen wiper when my kids are watching Noggin. I love Noggin, but hate that logo. :)

Thanks a lot!

Tony17: Thanks for sharing your settings. For some reason, they make my 42 seem quite dark. I actually like a "cooler" picture so I thought they would work but the lower brightness and contrast makes a difference on my panel.

Lisa, did you try just bumping up the brightness and crontrast a bit. That usually doesn't have that big of an effect on color temp. This way it will be slightly brighter and provide more shadow detail, while still keeping the temp cool. I think the thing to remember is that when people post settings, they are more for a reference point. Every setup has different lighting and atmosphere that will make the need to tweak those settings inevitable (they are just a good starting point). Let me know how you make out.

Tony17: I bumped up the contrast and brightness and the picture definitely looks less dark. I am going to keep this setting in memory and toggle back and forth between this one and cpcat's latest bright setting.

Thanks!

Any info on the 84" NEC plasmas that I'm seeing on the 'net for about $7k? I can't find them on the NEC site.

Any info on the 84" NEC plasmas that I'm seeing on the 'net for about $7k? I can't find them on the NEC site.

That's four 42 VP4's ganged together.

^^^^ That has been out for a while. Actually I think you can do that with most displays. I think I am going to get four 61" XR4's to have a 122"...Ya Right.

I'm still trying to figure out which I prefer. You can rest assured the NEC internal scaling is top notch.
True, but if one is piping an HTPC input into the panel, then you'd certainly want to have said input @ the panel's native rate - no reason to scale this. Wondering if anyone _has_ gotten an HTPC input into the panel at n/r successfully?

So, what's the maximum length of an HDMI cable? I think the installed one is about 40 ft. long....
HDMI cable is notoriously prone to damage - very delicate cable, one needs to take extra care when running :(

True, but if one is piping an HTPC input into the panel, then you'd certainly want to have said input @ the panel's native rate - no reason to scale this. Wondering if anyone _has_ gotten an HTPC input into the panel at n/r successfully?

Earlier in the thread there are people who have successfully managed to get 1365x768 using Nvidia cards.

Unfortunately my ATI card won't let me do 1365x768 but the NEC will 1:1 map 1360x768 by leaving 5 pixels blank, which is a pretty good trade off IMHO.

True, but if one is piping an HTPC input into the panel, then you'd certainly want to have said input @ the panel's native rate - no reason to scale this. Wondering if anyone _has_ gotten an HTPC input into the panel at n/r successfully?

Wow. How far back was that? :)

I think if you'll go back there again you'll see I actually was feeding NR and 1:1 through my Lumagen HDP. 1365 x 768 is only possible with DVI out to the display. 1360 x 768 works with VGA as Jvincent mentioned.

That's four 42 VP4's ganged together. Ah, muy bien, thx.

Hey Chris, how are those PX-61XR4As? My neighbor can get me one @ the employee $.

And what stands are available 4 it?

Ah, muy bien, thx.

Hey Chris, how are those PX-61XR4As? My neighbor can get me one @ the employee $.

And what stands are available 4 it?

Go for it.

I've had mine just shy of a week now and it's spectacular. I have mine connected to HD cable, Xbox 360, and an HTPC for DVD playback. Viewing position is 9 feet.

I've got mine on the matching table stand. It's a pretty sweet combo.

The 61" are nice, real nice. Expensive though, even at employee price.

Accessories CLICK HERE (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Products/Accessories/)

http://www.clevelandplasma.com/images/prod_images/t200_1134320450-NEC-PX-61XR4A.jpg

What the NEC rep probably meant to say was that Pioneer did not intend to stop producing NEC "branded" plasma products. After all, each brand has its own following.

Agreed. NEC's PDP and large LCDs have had very good brand reputation with business customers. It would be smart to continue to sell NEC branded PDPs to businesses even if NEC's plasma division was sold to Pioneer. It wouldn't make sense to stop making NEC branded PDPs considering NEC's PDPs were known for their very good image quality before the change in ownership. NEC's PDPs didn't really need any of Pioneers PDP technologies although it helped, what it needed was the combined economies of scale to lower prices to more competitive levels.

It's kinda similar to car companies buying other car companies. For example Ford purchased Volvo's automobile division awhile ago, but they are still making Volvo vehicles. There is also some technology sharing.

BTW can someone save me from having to read this whole 58 page thread and tell me if any pictures of a DVD source has been posted for the NECs?

Go for it.

I've had mine just shy of a week now and it's spectacular. I have mine connected to HD cable, Xbox 360, and an HTPC for DVD playback. Viewing position is 9 feet.

I've got mine on the matching table stand. It's a pretty sweet combo. The table stand is the PX-61ST2U?
The 61" are nice, real nice. Expensive though, even at employee price. Hmm...seems right in line with the Panty 58" street $. So methinks...why wait for the Panty? I get my 2 HDMIs, VGA, 3 more inches, 2 more years warranty, and less silver bezel...oh, and it comes with a bag of chips too... :)

Wow. Another reason to love this hobby. A TV called "Panty". :D

The table stand is the PX-61ST2U?

Correct.

Correct.So, I take it the swivel stand only works with the 42 and 50"?

Okay I am up and running....

DROOL: 50XR5A, SA8300HD over TWC (HDMI), Denon 2105 AV, Definitive Technology Speakers and Cheap JVC DVD Player (480i Component), and in short I am stunned and almost a bit overwhelmed! in a good way. I just got to say this Panel is BIG even at my 12ft viewing distance, The Panel exudes Fit, Finish and Quality and Aesthetics (The Wife said it was "The Prettiest one We Saw"). The HDTV PQ is stunning (yeah already used that word but it seems to be the correct adj) (DSCHD and KCET HD) are really cool. And Chris at Cleveland Plasma was again the man and kept my nerves in check and everything happened just as he said it would. I have many hours of enjoyment both tweaking and watching to come.

NOTE : Beside the Panel the PX-ST2U stand is a beautiful piece of heavy duty engineering. The geek in me weighed it it, it came in just over 35lbs. Together they are beautiful and functional, and not sure anyone mentioned but the handles on the back of the display are Secure and Well placed.

NOTE: For me and other noobs...
1) Don't forget to actually SAVE your picture settings after you set them. :o
2) Also I made a super low color, low contrast picture setting so when ever I want to play with menus I just switch to that picture setting and don't feel stressed out about IR. The Menus on the SA8300, DVD & AV are very bright otherwise.

QUESTIONS: OK enough drool here are the questions.
1) SA8300HD through HDMI, when I turn off the panel it turns off the Cable Box as well, and not successfully I might add, subsequently then the cable box proceeds to switch on and off until I turn the Panel back on and turn off the cable box first. i.e. I seem to have to shut down the Cable box first. The cable box seems to lose a few settings when I have to turn it off. (e.g. Digital Audio Setting). Is anyone else seeing this, and/or is this just part of the HDMI "Handshake" issues and /or is there a setting to not do this. Easy enough to work around, but annoying. I will try a new box on monday as well.

2) BREAKIN / IR : So I grab a couple of DVDs. I put them in and they are letter boxed as expected, but no matter what "Wide" setting I put it on there is still letter boxing (Ok... I am learning), the closest I get is with either ZOOM or 2.35:1. If I zoom in on the ZOOM setting I can fill the screen, but the quality is so/so. The PQ is best with stadium (not bad considering my current DVD player). So should I just suffer with the ZOOMed in PQ until I get a couple hundred hours in or am I missing something or am I being too cautious. At some point I will buy a new DVD player, but not sure when with all the HD-DVD stuff going on, but I may just buy a inexpensive Progressive scan in the interim (mine is 480i). Would That Help? Any thoughts? Am I Missing something?

2) BREAKIN / IR : So I grab a couple of DVDs. I put them in and they are letter boxed as expected, but no matter what "Wide" setting I put it on there is still letter boxing (Ok... I am learning), the closest I get is with either ZOOM or 2.35:1. If I zoom in on the ZOOM setting I can fill the screen, but the quality is so/so. The PQ is best with stadium (not bad considering my current DVD player). So should I just suffer with the ZOOMed in PQ until I get a couple hundred hours in or am I missing something or am I being too cautious?

(Very basic...)
Standard-def TV should be pillarboxed, with black bars left and right, when you have the display on "Normal". This is a 4:3 being displayed at 4:3. Switch to "Stadium", and it'll stretch to fill the screen at 16:9, stretching more at the left and right than in the middle. Hi-def TV is going to be broadcast at 16:9, so you'll want to view in "Anamorphic". Nearly all DVD's are either 16:9 or 2.35:1 (slight variations for this ultra-wide screen). If you watch all movie DVD's on anamorphic, you'll still see a letterbox format for the 2.35:1 films, with bars at top and bottom. Switching to "2.35:1", the image will be zoomed until the top and bottom edges fill the screen, but the left and right edges extend beyond the display boundaries.

(Slightly less basic...)
Your DVD player may be the culprit. Unfortunately, not all monitors or TV's scale, so many sources also scale. I have a Panasonic S97S, and its scaling options used to create all sorts of confusion for me. I have learned to always keep it on "16:9" for films, then let my NEC do any further scaling if I chose to fill the screen with 2.35:1 films. Although I do get some image retention of a 2.35 letterboxed film shown in NEC's 16:9, I get to see the entire film's image, and 10 minutes on Discovery-HD erases the retention afterward. My advice to you is check whether your DVD is scaling the image. Change it there rather than on the NEC and you should then be able to eliminate the bars for 2.35:1 content by setting that on the NEC.

There was definitely a less verbose way to say that, but what the hell.

I have been experimenting w/ Tony 17' and CPCAT’s settings. CPcats, last "bright' setting has shown to be the clearest 35mm PQ so far, very 3-D in it’s imagery. (Gino, I haven't tried your newest settings).
Realizing we have different rooms/lighting/eyesight. I am still having trouble with RED. When a –very- bright red comes on the screen, it is a “blooming red” i.e. A red shirt- it over shadows the body image, so the shirt looks neon. Turning down red is an opinion, however it may affect other color patterns. Moving up whites or lowering color saturation on one of the bias colors might work. Therefore, it is back to “the Tweaking”. I have to wait until dark.
db




Okay, I finally had a chance to mess with the Bright setting you posted cpcat. I do have to say there is a bit deeper blacks with that setting. Definitely close, if not right on, with the Panny level. I did not notice any really "floating" of the blacks yet. cpcat, did you witness the blacks floating, or did you just presume that the Bright setting floats the blacks?

Anyways, below are the settings I've settled on. Cpcat, I think we must either have drastically different lighting and setups, or much different taste in colors. Either way is cool, that's what make it individual preferences. Figured I'd post what I settled on for the Bright setting for anyone who wants to try them out. The below is using HDMI with my HR10-250 and SA8300HD.

Contrast 42
Brightness 30
Sharpness 0
Color 32
Tint 32
NR Off for HD material, will sometimes throw on NR2 for SD
Color Temp Mid-Low
GR 30
GG 31
GB 32
BR 38
BG 36
BB 35
Cinema Mode On
Pic Mode Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low Tone Auto
Setup Level 0%
Color Tune - All Default

I have been experimenting w/ Tony 17' and CPCAT’s settings. CPcats, last "bright' setting has shown to be the clearest 35mm PQ so far, very 3-D in it’s imagery. (Gino, I haven't tried your newest settings).
Realizing we have different rooms/lighting/eyesight. I am still having trouble with RED. When a –very- bright red comes on the screen, it is a “blooming red” i.e. A red shirt- it over shadows the body image, so the shirt looks neon. Turning down red is an opinion, however it may affect other color patterns. Moving up whites or lowering color saturation on one of the bias colors might work. Therefore, it is back to “the Tweaking”. I have to wait until dark.
db

I keep my saturation at slightly lower than default (29) for this reason. Going strictly by AVIA blue bars, it's right- on at default (32), but still looks oversaturated to me. This shouldn't effect the grey scale. If it still seems oversaturated to you, there shouldn't be any problem in decreasing it a little further even. Also you could move the red back a little in the "color tune" menu.

The problem I've had with desaturating further is that color saturation seems to vary some show to show. "Law and Order" for example seems a bit undersaturated compared to something like "CSI Miami" which is oversaturated and too red/orange. CBS sports seems more saturated to me in general than ESPN. You can either find a happy medium or adjust on-the-fly, but I've chosen to try for a setting that is a compromise.

Reds seems overall to be where imperfections will show up most. It seems that red backgrounds always show noise if it's there. This isn't particular to the NEC, but seems to be true for pdp's in general and other digital displays as well.

Okay I am up and running....

QUESTIONS: OK enough drool here are the questions.
1) SA8300HD through HDMI, when I turn off the panel it turns off the Cable Box as well, and not successfully I might add, subsequently then the cable box proceeds to switch on and off until I turn the Panel back on and turn off the cable box first. i.e. I seem to have to shut down the Cable box first. The cable box seems to lose a few settings when I have to turn it off. (e.g. Digital Audio Setting). Is anyone else seeing this, and/or is this just part of the HDMI "Handshake" issues and /or is there a setting to not do this. Easy enough to work around, but annoying. I will try a new box on monday as well.

I had exactly the same problem and changed the macro on my remote to shut off the cable box first. Ths solved the problem with the cable box flickering if it was shut off second. As far as the Digital Audio Settings being lost, this is unfortunately a common problem which happens to me frequently for no reason. I have not found an answer to it other than to reset them manually each time.

I keep my saturation at slightly lower than default (29) for this reason. Going strictly by AVIA blue bars, it's right- on at default (32), but still looks oversaturated to me. This shouldn't effect the grey scale. If it still seems oversaturated to you, there shouldn't be any problem in decreasing it a little further even. Also you could move the red back a little in the "color tune" menu.

The problem I've had with desaturating further is that color saturation seems to vary some show to show. "Law and Order" for example seems a bit undersaturated compared to something like "CSI Miami" which is oversaturated and too red/orange. CBS sports seems more saturated to me in general than ESPN. You can either find a happy medium or adjust on-the-fly, but I've chosen to try for a setting that is a compromise.

Reds seems overall to be where imperfections will show up most. It seems that red backgrounds always show noise if it's there. This isn't particular to the NEC, but seems to be true for pdp's in general and other digital displays as well.

I totally agree. The face colors seem to change from channel to channel. I have found it easier to dial down Red and Magenta in the Color Tune menu from 32 to 30. This seems to be sufficient to prevent sunburned faces on all channels. (The only reason that I also dialed down Magenta is that, when I had my CRT ISF calibrated a few years ago, the calibrator dialed down both in combination to alleviate too much red.) It seems to work here as well.

I had exactly the same problem and changed the macro on my remote to shut off the cable box first. Ths solved the problem with the cable box flickering if it was shut off second. As far as the Digital Audio Settings being lost, this is unfortunately a common problem which happens to me frequently for no reason. I have not found an answer to it other than to reset them manually each time.

I also have this problem with the SA8300. The only solution does seem to be shutting it off before the TV. I'm curious though, what digital audio settings are being lost? Something saved in the cable box?

I also have this problem with the SA8300. The only solution does seem to be shutting it off before the TV. I'm curious though, what digital audio settings are being lost? Something saved in the cable box?

Have you guys tried never turning the box off. I have my Harmony remote setup to never turn the box off. Then I went into the settings menu and told it to turn on everyday at 6:00 (since I think it automatically shuts off in the middle of the night). Doing this has resolved all of the problems you guys are speaking of. Any reason you feel the need to turn it off?

I found that, if connected via HDMI, the cable box automatically shuts off if the tv is off. It worked that way with my CRT too. However, if connected via component, the box stays on when the tv is shut off.

(Very basic...)
Standard-def TV should be pillarboxed, with black bars left and right, when you have the display on "Normal".......
Thanks for the sanity check.

(Slightly less basic...)
Your DVD player may be the culprit. Unfortunately, not all monitors or TV's scale, so many sources also scale. I have a Panasonic S97S, and its scaling options used to create all sorts of confusion for me. I have learned to always keep it on "16:9" for films, then let my NEC do any further scaling if I chose to fill the screen with 2.35:1 films. Although I do get some image retention of a 2.35 letterboxed film shown in NEC's 16:9, I get to see the entire film's image, and 10 minutes on Discovery-HD erases the retention afterward. My advice to you is check whether your DVD is scaling the image. Change it there rather than on the NEC and you should then be able to eliminate the bars for 2.35:1 content by setting that on the NEC.

There was definitely a less verbose way to say that, but what the hell.
But thanks none-the-less, more info and another sanity check... my DVD player was waaaayyyy out of date.

OK, Whilst you were be thoughtful and answering, I went out an bought simple Denon 1720 DVD player progressive and can set the Aspect Mode to 16:9 and Whalluh! 2.35:1 (Incredibles is actually 2.39:1 go figure) now looks great and fills the screen and I must say that the DVDs look much better in general. OK... now I am reallly a happy camper.

I also have this problem with the SA8300. The only solution does seem to be shutting it off before the TV. I'm curious though, what digital audio settings are being lost? Something saved in the cable box?

Thanks for the confirmation LisaM & rhoffman.

My Setup is SA8300HD DVR with Passport on TWC: STB -> HDMI -> PDP & STB -> toslink/Digital Optical-> AVR: As to what information is being lost, it is the Audio Digital Out setting stored on the STB, which I set to Dolby Digital 5.1. Every time I turn the cable box back on it resets to HDMI. Very minor but, annoying.

bvader: I have virtually the same setup except that I have an 8300HD dvr and I connect to the AVR via optical. I frequently lose Dolby Digital in that it goes back to Two Channel Stereo but never to HDMI. The box has been known to lose DD and go back to stereo but I have never heard of it going to HDMI.

I think we have the same setup. Mine is 8300HD DVR too & toslink = optical, hmm sounds like a bug in the firmware to me. It only goes back to HDMI after I power down and power up. I haven't seen it drop the DD, I am sure I will at some point.

Thanks for the confirmation LisaM & rhoffman.

My Setup is SA8300HD DVR with Passport on TWC: STB -> HDMI -> PDP & STB -> toslink/Digital Optical-> AVR: As to what information is being lost, it is the Audio Digital Out setting stored on the STB, which I set to Dolby Digital 5.1. Every time I turn the cable box back on it resets to HDMI. Very minor but, annoying.

I guess I need to check this out. I've got it connected via coax (I think) to my AVR. Maybe it keeps dropping me to 2 channel Dolby instead of 5.1. It definitely doesn't reset itself to HDMI though, because then I wouldn't hear anything.

Although I do get some image retention of a 2.35 letterboxed film shown in NEC's 16:9, I get to see the entire film's image, and 10 minutes on Discovery-HD erases the retention afterward.
Hmmm...this is a concern - in reading throught the thread it sounded like folks were saying that for the first 100-200+ hours the XR5 panel is overly susceptbile to retention, but that this cleared up after a suitable "break-in." Is your panel that's exhibiting this retention issue a new one, or have you had it a while?

Also ... I'm only one page 20 or so of the thread, but thought I'd skip ahead and ask if anyone has definitely confirmed that "zoom" (or other?) modes will function on the NEC with HD sources?

Also ... I'm only one page 20 or so of the thread, but thought I'd skip ahead and ask if anyone has definitely confirmed that "zoom" (or other?) modes will function on the NEC with HD sources?

If you are asking whether you can stretch an HD source using the NEC stretch modes, the answer is yes.

If you are asking whether you can stretch an HD source using the NEC stretch modes, the answer is yes.
Well, not so much stretch - want to know if a letterboxed show on an HD channel (i.e., one with black bars on top _and_ sides) can be "zoomed" ... many other panels lock to "full" mode with any 720/1080 input :mad:

Hey all,

Just finished installing my 50XR5. This screen is every bit as sleek and sexy as people have said, it really looks like a million bucks. I used a generic peerless wall mount and it was a lot less complicated than I expected it to be.

I've yet to toy with any of the settings although I have dropped brightness and contrast down just to get things started during the initial break-in period. I can say this much, all my fears of SD looking like crap have simply floated away.. I have standard DirectTV connected via s-video(!!!) at the moment (cable + HD comes this week... drool) and I'm simply astonished at how well this display can handle such a crappy input.

Also, forget any worries about excessive IR. I watched the latest formula 1 race tonight and never caught even a hint of IR from any of the bars or lines on the screen. I did have a bit of trouble getting the smile off my face, however.

I've also done some brief DVD watching via component and things seemed a tad grainy... although I still have a positively *ancient* low-end toshiba player, so I'm confident that upgrading to a modern upconverting DVD player with HDMI will work wonders. That and a little tweakage, of course.

Here's a couple pictures... the credenza is a Salamandar Triple which looks way better in my living room than I expected it to and matches the NEC perfectly.

http://www.infocalypse.org/pics/plasma1.jpg
http://www.infocalypse.org/pics/plasma2.jpg

Yes, I am one happy camper. Did I mentioned I just signed up for netflix, too? It's going to be a wonderful spring. ;)

Lumagen came out with another software update for my VP so I downloaded the upgrades and tried the VP again. The upgrades were for improved motion adaptive deinterlacing for 1080i sources as well as color performance and a few other bug fixes.

Well, I'm switching it back again. Still not as good as straight to the display.

Oh well. Anyone want to buy a VP?

I'll likely not have any luck selling it on this thread. ;)
Sorry, I missed or mistook your earlier comments on this - so you're saying that feeding HDMI from your DVD direct to the NEC results in a superior picture than using the VP for processing?!? What DVD player are you using, and are you outputting 480p or upscaled video?

Sorry, I missed or mistook your earlier comments on this - so you're saying that feeding HDMI from your DVD direct to the NEC results in a superior picture than using the VP for processing?!? What DVD player are you using, and are you outputting 480p or upscaled video?

What he's saying is that NEC's internal video processing is better than his external VP even after updating his VP's firmware which included video processing improvements.

Well, not so much stretch - want to know if a letterboxed show on an HD channel (i.e., one with black bars on top _and_ sides) can be "zoomed" ... many other panels lock to "full" mode with any 720/1080 input :mad:

The stretch modes "zoom", "2.35:1", and "stadium" are available for HD and SD signals. Stadium is what most use for a 4:3 HD pillarboxed image as it is a non-linear stretch mode which distorts the center of the image less. 2.35:1 is useful for letterboxed images such as 2.35:1 movies shown OAR or DVD's. Zoom would certainly work for a window-boxed image like you mention and could also be used either with pillarboxed or letterboxed images I suppose.

What he's saying is that NEC's internal video processing is better than his external VP even after updating his VP's firmware which included video processing improvements.

Zactly... :)

infocalypse, it is amazing how nice the SD content looks on the NEC.