infocalypse, it is amazing how nice the SD content looks on the NEC.

Hey all,

...
I've also done some brief DVD watching via component and things seemed a tad grainy... although I still have a positively *ancient* low-end toshiba player, so I'm confident that upgrading to a modern upconverting DVD player with HDMI will work wonders. That and a little tweakage, of course.
...


I was in the same boat, ancient DVD, mine didn't even recognize 16:9 TV and it wasn't progressive scan. Picture was poor to be polite. I thought about buying an upconverting, but rethought it based on a couple things.

1) Take a look at this upconverting DVD player thread
Upconverting DVD Players (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=642191)
there seems to be a number of quirks. There is an LG out too, but it has such a slim input slot it can't handle double sided DVDs.

2) The NEC has a great scalar / electronics which you noted earlier in your post, so why not let it do the work. To totally paraphrase some earlier more knowledgeable post... Its not a long way from 480p to the NEC

3) I wasn't gonna spend alot on a DVD player with the HD DVD players coming soon. So I bought an inexpense DVD player (Denon 1720) low frills progressive scan and recognizes 16:9 and WHOA the picture is amazing. I am running component through the AVR with Digital Audio. Watched the Incredibles and it was Incredible... sorry couldn't resist. Major imprvement. I can wait now for a while before investing in an expensive DVD player. (Hope fully one that will play all formats)

I was in the same boat, ancient DVD, mine didn't even recognize 16:9 TV and it wasn't progressive scan. Picture was poor to be polite. I thought about buying an upconverting, but rethought it based on a couple things.

1) Take a look at this upconverting DVD player thread
Upconverting DVD Players (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=642191)
there seems to be a number of quirks. There is an LG out too, but it has such a slim input slot it can't handle double sided DVDs.

Nods, I've been reading through that thread (and others) over the weekend. The Oppo seems to be pretty good on bang for the buck but I'm not entirely clear if it can output 480p over DVI.. and besides, I'd rather have player with HDMI built in.

2) The NEC has a great scalar / electronics which you noted earlier in your post, so why not let it do the work. To totally paraphrase some earlier more knowledgeable post... Its not a long way from 480p to the NEC.

Given the NEC's awesome scaler, I was gonna try and find a DVD player that will send it 480p over a digital connection. I figure adding progressive scan and removing the A/D conversion should make a heck of a difference.

3) I wasn't gonna spend alot on a DVD player with the HD DVD players coming soon. So I bought an inexpense DVD player (Denon 1720) low frills progressive scan and recognizes 16:9 and WHOA the picture is amazing. I am running component through the AVR with Digital Audio. Watched the Incredibles and it was Incredible... sorry couldn't resist. Major imprvement. I can wait now for a while before investing in an expensive DVD player. (Hope fully one that will play all formats)

Does that puppy have an HDMI output? I'm gonna go take a peek at it. Researching what DVD player to get seems downright silly at times, there's just sooooo many models out there!

EDIT - the Denon 1720 looks good but I don't think I'm going to be able to resist the Denon 1920 instead. It's got everything I was looking for... Does anyone know if the new NEC sets are prone to macroblocking when paired with a DVD player using the Faroudja FLI2310? I've seen a number of threads on this for other displays...

I've noticed something weird that I haven't read about elsewhere in the thread, so thought I'd post.

I use my 50xr5 as a monitor for my HTPC (nvidia 7800gt over dvi-hdmi) using dcypher/cpcat's 1:1 pixel mapping native resolution.

Works great, beautiful picture and the best big screen gaming ever!

My question is this. I've noticed that the overall contrast of the screen (white level) shifts based on the average white level of the content being displayed.

Here's how to see what I'm describing:

I open a web browser (set to my home page google, which is predominantly white.
When the browser window is not-maximized (and doesn't take up the majority of the screen), the white-space on the page is bright white and the desktop is a bright blue.

As I either maximize the Window or enlarge it and slowly move it off the screen, I can see the white levels in the window and the desktop change dynamically and become less vivid.

In other words, when there is a lot of white content on screen, the average white level accross the whole display is lowered.

I remember the "can your set hold black at black when average black level changes" section of DVE and I'm wondering if white level is the same or if I'm setting something wrong.

I've played with most of the logical settings on the 50xr5 and can't find any that effect this.

Any thoughts?

In other words, when there is a lot of white content on screen, the average white level accross the whole display is lowered.

I remember the "can your set hold black at black when average black level changes" section of DVE and I'm wondering if white level is the same or if I'm setting something wrong.

I've played with most of the logical settings on the 50xr5 and can't find any that effect this.

Any thoughts?

What you are seeing is normal.

As the APL of what is being displayed changes there are two things going on, one is perceptual and one is electronic. I'm sure about the perceptual one, not 100% on the electronic.

From a perceptual point of view, if less white is on the screen, what white there is will seem brighter compared to black. That's why all of the calibration disks have patterns for setting brightness / contrast with different APLs. Your eyes adjust to what they are seeing.

The electronic reason is that for an all white screen more current is required and I'm pretty sure the total current will be limited, so the intensity of the white will be lower. This would need to be measured, comparing a 100% white screen with a 100% white square.

In other words, when there is a lot of white content on screen, the average white level accross the whole display is lowered.

I remember the "can your set hold black at black when average black level changes" section of DVE and I'm wondering if white level is the same or if I'm setting something wrong.

I've played with most of the logical settings on the 50xr5 and can't find any that effect this.

Any thoughts?

This is normal behavior for plasma. It's easy to measure, too, and often if you read reviews that do contrast measurements it will be mentioned. A full white 100 IRE screen will have less measured luminance than a 100 IRE window.

I'm not technical enough to tell you how a pdp can still have a "DC restoration" rated as excellent with this sort of behavior although obviously it can and this behavior is universal for pdp's. I'd assume the blacks are relatively constant even though the whites are not.

If you are running NR, you should know that the contrast is limited in the SM for you. You can disable this if you want. You may know this already but instructions are here:http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=148

I wrote this prior to seeing cpcat's reply so now understand this is a plasma thing. I had already turned off the NR limiter in the service menu, so that isn't a factor.

I guess I'll just have to live with it, but I can't imagine that this doesn't impact color accuracy when watching real content, as the display (and apparently all plasmas) clearly shifts how bright white is based on APL. Maybe black level makes a bigger difference in percieved accuracy and that's where PDPs excel.

-----------------
Thanks for the quick response. To test the perceptual end of what you described, I placed the browser window on the right side of my desktop and then covered up that half of the display with cardboard so no light could bleed through.

I then closed and opened the browser window from the taskbar (thus altering the quantity of white screen content on my display without my being able to see the window itself.

As before, the color values and contrast level of the desktop altered dramatically based on whether the window was open or closed.

So when the large white box was displayed, but not seen by me, the white level across the board was decreased.

I've never seen this before on my LCD and DLP sets so wonder if this is a plasma specific thing? Per your technical description, it does seem like the overall power available to the screen decreases fluidly as white content ratio increases.

Bummer if there's no way to solve for this as I end up with very different picture levels based on what I'm doing on the PC and this makes adopting a "compromised" midpoint contrast level both harder and more important.

Have you turned Limit PC off?

Have you turned "Limit PC" to off as described by cpcat above? Did it help?

I assume dyspher is something like powerstrip? I've never used my tv as a monitor, but will as soon as I get a HTPC. What is the highest resolution you can go with from your PC to the plasma?

Also, I have an xbox 360. What is the highest resolution you can run to the nec plasma, 1368x720? I hooked up my xbox 360 to my PC lcd monitor and ran it at 1280x1024 and it looked as good as any pc game i've seen.

I assume dyspher is something like powerstrip? I've never used my tv as a monitor, but will as soon as I get a HTPC. What is the highest resolution you can go with from your PC to the plasma?

Also, I have an xbox 360. What is the highest resolution you can run to the nec plasma, 1368x720? I hooked up my xbox 360 to my PC lcd monitor and ran it at 1280x1024 and it looked as good as any pc game i've seen.

I've got my HTPC and Xbox360 hooked up to my NEC.

I run the Xbox at 1280x720 and let the NEC scale it up. Needless to say, it looks fantastic.

I currently have my HTPC connected via VGA at 1360x768. It will accept other, higher, resolutions over VGA but they will all be scaled to 1365x768. Via VGA, 1360x768 is 1:1 mapped.

Over HDMI, the usable resolutions are 1920x1080i, 1280x720p, and if you have Nvidia hardware 1365x768p. For me, ATI hardware, the first two result in overscan which make it much harder to use. I'm not sure if this is ATI specific or not but since I get a perfect desktop via VGA I'll be going that route for the time being.

I wrote this prior to seeing cpcat's reply so now understand this is a plasma thing. I had already turned off the NR limiter in the service menu, so that isn't a factor.



Just to be sure, you toggled "Limit PC" from on to off in the SM?
You should have noticed an immediate increase in screen brightness on a PC input (including native rate input). After doing this, I had to significantly decrease the contrast setting for native rate input. For native rate, your signal info should read 1365 x 768 and memory 18.

Also, if it's an issue with needing different contrast settings for different inputs, I assume you know that you have 6 picture memories that can be programmed which can be saved per input so they are automatically recalled when the input is selected.

I assume dyspher is something like powerstrip? .


:) :)

Dcypher is a forum member who posted timings from his nvidia card a while back.

Yes, I've turned off Limit PC for contrast enhancement on native resolution sources. It makes a huge difference on contrast in general, so I've used it since day 1 with the set.

But it has no impact on this issue. The white level still floats up and down based on content.

I'm surprised I've never seen this discussed elsewhere since it seems to be common to pdps. Maybe in real world tv/movie/gaming useit doesn't become as noticable as bad black level would be, but in my HTPC scenario its pretty annoying as I switch between browsers, email apps, etc.

Sounds like this is a "feature" and not a "bug", so I'll just have to get used to it. Every technology has some compromises and I guess this is one of plasma's.

I love the 50xr5, so I don't regret my decision. XBOX 360 looks great, my pc games look great, my comcast hd dvr looks great, as do DVDs.

Sorry to change the topic so abruptly, but I'm so very, very close to buying the 50XR5A. Having experienced horrendous disappointment with my last attempt at a plasma (Dell W5001C), I'm going the completely opposite end of the spectrum and going for quality, quality quality.

My bad experiences aren't the point of this message, though... what I'm wondering is:

Where did you folks buy your displays from?

I've heard excellent things about Cleveland Plasma, but my drive to comparison shop demands I check out at least another place. I've checked out the other forum sponsors, but I'm interested in what you people wound up doing. Any information you could provide would be appreciated. :)

Thanks!

Calim, from what I recall from reading and participating in this thread, I think that most people here bought their NEC from one of the forum sponsors (Cleveland Plasma, Plasma Concepts, Visual Apex, etc...) Personally, I bought my 42xr4 from Chris at Cleveland Plasma and can vouch for his super service.

Question: Very Minor, Possibly Imagined:
Running the Breakin DVD. Sometimes it looks like the top line of pixels of the display is a bit brighter than the rest. Could this be just an optical illusion or adjustment or a flaw in the Breakin DVD?. I am not convinced if I am really seeing it or not, when I get very close it is hard to tell. If it was an optical illusion I guess I would expect to see it around all edges, but it looks like it is just the top. During true content I don't see it because it of the chaning image. Just Curious...

I've heard excellent things about Cleveland Plasma, but my drive to comparison shop demands I check out at least another place. I've checked out the other forum sponsors, but I'm interested in what you people wound up doing. Any information you could provide would be appreciated. :)


I took delivery of my 50XR5 (pictured 10 or 15 posts back, i think) just this week. Chris was exceptionally helpful when it came to discussing features and certainly isn't biased towards any one manufacturer. He's also top-notch when it comes to communcation and status updates. I'd heartily recommend him to anyone!

I'm interested in what you people wound up doing. Any information you could provide would be appreciated. :)

Thanks!

Calim, I've heard great things about Chris and have been impressed with my dealings with him prior to buying my PDP, so this is in no way a knock on Chris (I think all of the positive feedback speaks for itself). But, I ended up going with Bob at PlasmaConcepts only because of price and availablility at the time (1st shipment to go out). He was great to deal with and very professional. They are also offering the no questions asked exchange policy on these NEC's too!

Calim,

I bought the NECXR5A from Projector Point; they are also a AVS Forum sponsor. I am very happy with my purchase with them. Check them out. Talk to either Vince or Derek.

Thanks for reconsidering..........

Just one more...Me Too.....I too am a Happy Customer of Chris at Cleveland Plasma. Got my 50XR5 on Friday, I really like his Low Key, Helpful/Professional approach (Low Key being good for me, not liking hard sell and liking the calming influence). Everything went smooth, price was good, service was good and delivery was right on time. I had several pieces and everything came in the right order.

Someome had asked about the LG DVD players with the NEC panels. I have the NEC 42XR4 (from Chris at Cleveland Plasma) and the "upconverting" LG LDA-511. After reading this thread and others, I just feed 480p from the DVD to the panel and the picture is great. I've tried 720p and 1080i, but I just don't see much of a difference. Also, the loading slot works fine on my unit for single or double sided DVD's. fyi, I'm using HDMI/HDMI connection with monoprice cables. All in all, the LG is a good value for what I paid.

calim; I suggest only three sources for your plasma. Plasmabay; I have never used them, but great reputation. Plasmadepot: I have used them twice with one customer-problem but resolved to my satisfaction; and Clevelandplasma:I bought my latest from him and never have I purchased anything over then net with two(!) customer follow-up calls to make sure everytning is well. Chris did it.

You will never go wrong with any of the above.

Hello AVS forum members. I have recently stumbled onto this incredible forum. What a great thing you guys have going here! This is the place to be for quality info. Chris from Clevland Plasma gave me the link to this site because I am extremly interested in the NEC XR5. I am in the market for a 50" plasma, and this set looks like a winner. I was wondering if anybody here recommends the external speakers that you can purchase also? I have a very high quality audio system, but don't really want to run everything all the time. Also would anyone recommend purchasing speakers that were not made for this particular set? I would appreciate any info you guys have on this XR5. I will more than likely be ordering it this week. Thanks guys! :)

I also got my XR5 from Chris - it arrived last night! No complaints here - Chris called to follow up late last night after it arrrived to make sure everything was okay and offer his assistance if I had any questions.

Now I just have to figure out how to get it mounted - did anyone here mount theirs on the BDI Avion mount? We started trying to get it together at about 1am this morning and discovered that the screws that BDI provided are too big for the holes in the TV :( I guess I will be buying a bunch of screws at a hardware store today to try to find some that will work with the TV.

Can't wait to get this thing hooked up after all this time waiting . . .

I thought I remember reading about someone in the thread who bought the 42XM4, but couldn't find them with the search. Can someone who owns this unit comment on any glare? The only difference I can see between this and the XR4 besides the inputs and warranty is the "Bonded Color Filter" on the XR4 which is supposed to improve "color, bright room contrast and sharpness while reducing the multiple image reflections possible with traditional filter technologies."

We won't have direct sunlight on the display, but do have one wall of windows. I can get the XM4 quite a bit cheaper than the XR4 so I'm OK with the inputs and shorter warranty (I can buy an extended and still save).

Come to think of it the 50XR5 doesn't have the Bonded Color Filter either (although it could have other features)...anyone have any glare problems?

Thanks

OK, I am not imagining it....
I have ~30 hours on the XR50 (loving it!), of varied content, low brightness and contrast.

ISSUE: The top line (occasionally 2 lines) of the display are/appear a bit brighter (rough estimate maybe 10-20%).
It is easiest to see on moderately bright solid colors, such as the break in DVD (I have validated it is not the content on the Breakin DVD) and when there are solid colors on regular or hd TV content (multiple sources) at a viewing distance of less than 4 feet.
I can NOT see it/it is not obvious from my 12 foot viewing distance viewing regular content.
If I put the panel on an input with the no signal the nice dark gray screen seems very even.
Can someone validate
Whether they see this or not
Is this something that can be "calibrated/adjusted"
Is this normal that the top line is a bit brighter
Am I being way too Type-A and I should just go sit back down on the couch, forget it and enjoy.
My concern is burn in of this line.
Info appreciated.

I think I had what you were talking about when I first got mine. I adjusted the picture location so that this line was off the screen, and it didn't affect the rest of the picture. You may want to play with "image adjust" feature and see if it helps.

I know you all like the new XR5A. I had really bad experience with this display. Overall it had nice colors and I would not complain about black levels, but I dont think the picture was as clear as some other plasmas on market. The resolution was also very bad. I had connected same source to my 8-9 Years old SONY 27" CRT and this Plasma - picture on this plasma was poor compared to that on the old sony. Only reason I purchased this set was excellent reviews for this in this forum. I have been following this forum since few months - have been researching Plasmas since over an year now. Either I have had all wrong/old cables or very poor resources connected to this plasma. Matter of fact, I was so confident about this display and to justify my purchase, I bought in a new SONY Progressive Scan DVD player which is the latest in market - hooked it with both - the plasma and my CRT. The picture was awful again on this plasma but it was much better on my CRT. Can someone explain what went wrong??
I returned my plasma after testing it for around 6-8 hours - took 15% loss for restocking fees plus twice shipping charges. I am not pleased at all with this. I have now placed an order on Panasonic 50PX60U - these are coming in late March or 1st week of April.
:confused:

Tushar, what cables / outputs from your DVD were you using? If you were using the red/white/yellow (which is called composite btw) connections, you will have a crappy picture which will look better on the old tv than on the plasma. I can't believe you returned it without talking to us first. I guess you had 4-6 hundred dollars that you wanted to throw away.

I know you all like the new XR5A. I had really bad experience with this display. Overall it had nice colors and I would not complain about black levels, but I dont think the picture was as clear as some other plasmas on market. The resolution was also very bad. I had connected same source to my 8-9 Years old SONY 27" CRT and this Plasma - picture on this plasma was poor compared to that on the old sony. Only reason I purchased this set was excellent reviews for this in this forum. I have been following this forum since few months - have been researching Plasmas since over an year now. Either I have had all wrong/old cables or very poor resources connected to this plasma. Matter of fact, I was so confident about this display and to justify my purchase, I bought in a new SONY Progressive Scan DVD player which is the latest in market - hooked it with both - the plasma and my CRT. The picture was awful again on this plasma but it was much better on my CRT. Can someone explain what went wrong??
I returned my plasma after testing it for around 6-8 hours - took 15% loss for restocking fees plus twice shipping charges. I am not pleased at all with this. I have now placed an order on Panasonic 50PX60U - these are coming in late March or 1st week of April.
:confused:

I'm surprised that you were so unhappy with the NEC. While no panel is perfect, the NEC is certainly the equal of most if not all of the better panels on the market today. It's possible that your NEC was defective in some way. No factory's quality control is 100%. That's why you're likely to find some negative comments about any factory produced product that sells in volume. The more sales, the more possibility that someone is going to be unhappy (because as someone once said "You can't please all the people all of the time.") and/or receive a lemon.


Unless your NEC was a lemon, I doubt that a Panny panel will make you much happier - and I'm a VERY happy Panny panel owner. (There just isn't that much difference between the better panels produced by the various panel manufacturers.) Perhaps you prefer the brighter image of the CRT and might find it easier to adjust to an LCD flat panel as opposed to a plasma. If so, you might want to consider a Sharp or Sony LCD flat panel instead. I would also suggest that you take a favorite dvd of yours to a bricks and mortar store (like Best Buy or Magnolia) and have them hook up a dvd player to the various panels that you are considering. That way you can try before you buy.

Come to think of it the 50XR5 doesn't have the Bonded Color Filter either (although it could have other features)...anyone have any glare problems?

Thanks

I've got the XR5 on the same side as an entire wall of windows (with the back of the TV facing the windows). We're on the 4th floor of a building with a Northern Exposure so the sun isn't direct, but we get plenty of light. The windows extend to the ceiling which is about 10 feet. I've got no issues with glare.

I dont think the picture was as clear as some other plasmas on market. The resolution was also very bad. I had connected same source to my 8-9 Years old SONY 27" CRT and this Plasma


Something doesn't add up. The NEC scaler is one of the best on the market. Clarity and crispness of the picture is 2nd to none. If you read back in this thread, that was the deciding factor for me to get the NEC. The picture quality is outstanding. It sounds like you were using the composite hookups, this connection will give you the worst resolution on a HD plasma. Invest in some component cables or HDMI or you will be returning your next TV too.

That's what I think as well haveoneolboy. He should have asked some questions here before returning it at a 15% loss.

Does anybody here know if the speakers available for the xr5 are worth buying? I am probably going to purchase the XR5 this week and need to know if the speakers are worth considering. Thanks.

I don't know techjunky, but I can tell you it sounds good even through cheap 8 ohm speakers. I temporarily have mine hooked up using a couple JVC speakers from a HTIB that I had laying around. I didn't feel like hooking up a surround sound system in our temporary apartment, so I just used the speaker outputs from the TV. If you have some speakers laying around that will look ok for you, I wouldn't worry about buying the ones that go with it.

I don't know techjunky, but I can tell you it sounds good even through cheap 8 ohm speakers. I temporarily have mine hooked up using a couple JVC speakers from a HTIB that I had laying around. I didn't feel like hooking up a surround sound system in our temporary apartment, so I just used the speaker outputs from the TV. If you have some speakers laying around that will look ok for you, I wouldn't worry about buying the ones that go with it.
Thanks MarkyMark! I appreciate the quick response. I can't wait to own this fabulous set!

I'll tell you a funny story. A friend (a contactor) of mine help me, cut holes in my wall for wiring and helped mount my xr. So, I went over his house to see his SONY 42 plasma about 2yrs. old. The picture just wasn’t -quite- right. Good but not as good as I thought it should be.
So I eye balled calibrated it. Better. Then I said let me look at how you cabled it. He said the cable guy set it all up and said this should work out "just fine". It was a little work to take a lookie look. I said Ok. I went home and order a HDMI/dvi cable (monoprice). Went back and said OK. Let’s -redue this-. REconnect his Comcast box HDMI>DVI directly to the Sony and for his DVD component cables directly to the plasma. {the component cable were connect to he Comcast box but they were not doing anything. his DVD player was connect via coax through the Comcast box}. So we had HDMI/divi- box> plasma --DVD component>to plasma. The next thing he said - WOW!! Look at that PQ. We put in a DVD and they said they have never seen this good of a Picture on their plasma. They had been watching for 2yrs- composite...

Yeah DAB. It's a shame when people who don't understand the technology connect it for people who just want a good picture.

Marky_,
Yes, your are right,
However, two years ago i wouldn't have knowen the difference either. Just got into a faster learning curve. Now i am just trying to figure out how to set up a power amp,.
db

Since we are talking connectivity....
Currently I have my Denon 1720 DVD connected via Component to my Denon 2105 AVR then Component to the 50XR, the audio via optical to AVR. Looks pretty darned good. Should I go direct DVD to the panel?

Since we are talking connectivity....
Currently I have my Denon 1720 DVD connected via Component to my Denon 2105 AVR then Component to the 50XR, the audio via optical to AVR. Looks pretty darned good. Should I go direct DVD to the panel?

I would. Or at least try it and see to be sure it doesn't make a difference. With analog especially, bandwidth can be restricted if the switching device isn't up to par.

I ....Started out- all connection via Denon 3803; Then fallowed CPcat's recommend;
Comcast drp>HDMI>plasma
DVD >component>Plasma
Digital coax for audio-
Switch via remotes
Both box & DVD show PQ improvement - Not night and Day, but noticeable enough to keep it this way.
In addition, I think PQ gets better after a little warm up

My theory is "the least interconnects the better" If you don't need to run it through another piece of equipment, I wouldn't. Just another place for the signal to be degraded.

Since we are talking connectivity....
Currently I have my Denon 1720 DVD connected via Component to my Denon 2105 AVR then Component to the 50XR, the audio via optical to AVR. Looks pretty darned good. Should I go direct DVD to the panel?
I have the Denon 4800 AVR and I think it saves on the possibility of breaking down the signal further by just connecting your component cables directly to the display from the DVD player. I have used both hookups and noticed very little difference in the PQ. It really does'nt make a noticable difference though. It doesn't hurt anything by connecting through the receivers component input, but I don't bother with it personally.

Just out of curiosity has anyone tried 480i over HDMI? I've been following this thread off and on, but don't remember a post about it. I know that some of the Pioneer Elite players have the 480i over HDMI and with the NEC scaler I have a feeling that might be a really nice pic.

Does anybody here know if the speakers available for the xr5 are worth buying? I am probably going to purchase the XR5 this week and need to know if the speakers are worth considering. Thanks.

It's difficult to know what you mean by the term "worth buying". I think it's a fair assumption that the NEC speakers will be "OK" but not great. They were designed to fit along side the panel and had to be made to be efficient enough to be driven adequately by the low-power amplifiers built into the plasma (about 10W of power per channel, I think). So if the convenience and compactness of the NEC speakers is a factor, then go for it. If you don't use the NEC speakers but DO wish to use the built in amplifiers, make certain to buy a pair of very efficient outboard speakers that can be driven by a 10W amplifier. If you are going to use outboard amplification, which will almost certainly mean that you will have much more amplifier power, then you can probably spend your money on speakers in a better way than to use it to buy the NEC ones.

It's difficult to know what you mean by the term "worth buying". I think it's a fair assumption that the NEC speakers will be "OK" but not great. They were designed to fit along side the panel and had to be made to be efficient enough to be driven adequately by the low-power amplifiers built into the plasma (about 10W of power per channel, I think). So if the convenience and compactness of the NEC speakers is a factor, then go for it. If you don't use the NEC speakers but DO wish to use the built in amplifiers, make certain to buy a pair of very efficient outboard speakers that can be driven by a 10W amplifier. If you are going to use outboard amplification, which will almost certainly mean that you will have much more amplifier power, then you can probably spend your money on speakers in a better way than to use it to buy the NEC ones.
I just meant are they decent sounding speakers. I own a Sharp 37" LCD and the speaker system is outstanding. They are only driven at 10 watts a piece and sound excellent. I also have an exceptional audio sytsem in my home theater setup, but I really don't want to run my AVR every time I watch TV.

My theory is "the least interconnects the better" If you don't need to run it through another piece of equipment, I wouldn't. Just another place for the signal to be degraded.

ok..that just makes WAYYY too much sense :)

OK, I am not imagining it....
I have ~30 hours on the XR50 (loving it!), of varied content, low brightness and contrast.

ISSUE: The top line (occasionally 2 lines) of the display are/appear a bit brighter (rough estimate maybe 10-20%)....
....

I think I had what you were talking about when I first got mine. I adjusted the picture location so that this line was off the screen, and it didn't affect the rest of the picture. You may want to play with "image adjust" feature and see if it helps.

Thanks... I tired this. I could move the screen around a bit, but didn't seem to change it. It is very minor and I didn't notice it while watching scenes of HellBoy. Talked to Chris @ Cleveland, he reminded to just Call NEC and have 'em come out... Think I will observe it a little more. It is really minor...think I should just let it rest for a while

I also got my XR5 from Chris - it arrived last night! No complaints here - Chris called to follow up late last night after it arrrived to make sure everything was okay and offer his assistance if I had any questions.

Now I just have to figure out how to get it mounted - did anyone here mount theirs on the BDI Avion mount? We started trying to get it together at about 1am this morning and discovered that the screws that BDI provided are too big for the holes in the TV :( I guess I will be buying a bunch of screws at a hardware store today to try to find some that will work with the TV.

Can't wait to get this thing hooked up after all this time waiting . . .

I have my 42XR4 on the BDI Avion mount. It came with 2 bags of screws and there are a bunch left over. You shouldn't have any problem finding the ones you need unless they didn't ship the screws with the mount.

I know you all like the new XR5A. I had really bad experience with this display. Overall it had nice colors and I would not complain about black levels, but I dont think the picture was as clear as some other plasmas on market. The resolution was also very bad. I had connected same source to my 8-9 Years old SONY 27" CRT and this Plasma - picture on this plasma was poor compared to that on the old sony. Only reason I purchased this set was excellent reviews for this in this forum. I have been following this forum since few months - have been researching Plasmas since over an year now. Either I have had all wrong/old cables or very poor resources connected to this plasma. Matter of fact, I was so confident about this display and to justify my purchase, I bought in a new SONY Progressive Scan DVD player which is the latest in market - hooked it with both - the plasma and my CRT. The picture was awful again on this plasma but it was much better on my CRT. Can someone explain what went wrong??
I returned my plasma after testing it for around 6-8 hours - took 15% loss for restocking fees plus twice shipping charges. I am not pleased at all with this. I have now placed an order on Panasonic 50PX60U - these are coming in late March or 1st week of April.
:confused:

I think your experience is the exception to the rule and may point to a defective unit or some other issue.

Thanks... I tired this. I could move the screen around a bit, but didn't seem to change it. It is very minor and I didn't notice it while watching scenes of HellBoy. Talked to Chris @ Cleveland, he reminded to just Call NEC and have 'em come out... Think I will observe it a little more. It is really minor...think I should just let it rest for a while

Have you tried looking at this with solid color screens? Usually, this would be the way to look for pixel defects. I'd probably use black, white, red, green, blue. If you don't see the problem there it's likely not the display. If you still do see it, then I'd call NEC.

I thought I remember reading about someone in the thread who bought the 42XM4, but couldn't find them with the search. Can someone who owns this unit comment on any glare? The only difference I can see between this and the XR4 besides the inputs and warranty is the "Bonded Color Filter" on the XR4 which is supposed to improve "color, bright room contrast and sharpness while reducing the multiple image reflections possible with traditional filter technologies."

We won't have direct sunlight on the display, but do have one wall of windows. I can get the XM4 quite a bit cheaper than the XR4 so I'm OK with the inputs and shorter warranty (I can buy an extended and still save).

Come to think of it the 50XR5 doesn't have the Bonded Color Filter either (although it could have other features)...anyone have any glare problems?

Thanks

I have had this unit for a little over a week and love it. Unfortunately mine is set up in a small room with two windows flanking it from behind, so I get no direct sun light. I do have a ceiling fan with light directly above and I have not had a problem with glare. I usually turn the light down little though just because it is so bright.

Fundi

Finally decided to join you in the NEC forum -- I decided last night to purchase the 42XR4, after waiting for weeks to get the Panny 42PX600. It was just looking too long to wait for that model to come out, plus, the 42XR4 looks SOOOOOO much better than the Panny 60s, which I just couldn't bring myself to get, regardless of the great PQ-for-the-buck. But, after lurking around here for the past week, I don't think I'll be disappointed with the PQ or experience with the NEC!

Also, is there a site that NEC users can go to that is equivalent to Bruzzi's detailed info on the Pannys? He has a great deal of info on the Panny, but not much on the NEC, so I was hoping to find one for MY set, now.

I'll join the chorus on this thread in thanking Chris from Cleveland Plasma for steering me in this direction, too! Looking forward to getting set up, and posting pictures of it, eventually (getting custom-built cabinet made, after I get rid of a lot of stone around my fireplace).

Have you tried looking at this with solid color screens? Usually, this would be the way to look for pixel defects. I'd probably use black, white, red, green, blue. If you don't see the problem there it's likely not the display. If you still do see it, then I'd call NEC.

I re-did the image adjust test and with fresher eyes this AM with solid colors and still observed the "Brighter Line" However, I realized it is not a particular line of pixels. As I move the vertical position down the "brighter" line which was the top edge of the displayed image descended with it, thus it is not actually a line of pixels it, it is the edge of the displayed image. Then I proceeded to move the picture up/down/left /right and noticed that the "Edge artifact" (the edge on all 4 sides tends to be a bit brighter)exists on all edges but when the screen is properly (default) set, you don't see any of them, with the exception of the top.

The strange thing is that it a "grow" the vertical size of the image I don't see it go away... which is beginning to make me believe 2 things, the panel is fine, I may just be observing too close/critical and seeing an illusion(light next to dark at the edge sometimes looks brighter) or the actual shape of the pixels.

I am begining to think the observation is in the observer not the observed.

I will keep an eye on it ... no pun intended...

Thx

Just out of curiosity has anyone tried 480i over HDMI? I've been following this thread off and on, but don't remember a post about it. I know that some of the Pioneer Elite players have the 480i over HDMI and with the NEC scaler I have a feeling that might be a really nice pic.

I picked up the Sony NS975V from Amazon, refurbished, and hooked up the HDMI to the second HDMI input on the NEC. I was expecting the 480i to be the best quality, based on all the raves about the NEC's scaler, but after some experiments I found the 1080i upscaling looked the best.

I output 480i from my Harmon/Kardon and it no doubt gives me the best picture. I am, however, connected with component cables with the DVD player - not HDMI.

I just ordered the XR5 from Cleveland Plasma. These are one hot item fellas. I can't believe how fast Chris at Cleveland Plas. turns these sets over. I am so glad I found out about this display before buying something else. I am pretty confident that this was by far the best value for 50" plasma. I did extensive shopping and comparisions at local stores, but the NEC was not in the mix because they don't sell it around here (Wisconsin). Judging by the glowing reviews in this thread, my patience has paid off. The next display to be mounted on my wall will be the NEC XR5! Time to move my Sharp LC-37DB5U to my bedroom and make room for the new bad boy, the XR5! Ya, I'm a little jazzed up here. ;) :D Thanks Chris at Clevland Plasma for everything! I look foreward to hearing from you about when I can expect my new display. :)

I, too, have jumped on the Cleveland Plasma bandwagon and placed my 50XR5A order with Chris on Monday night. He called up last night to tell me that he was going to charge my card and ship out the display Wednesday (today), so now I just have to wait by the door for my new toy to come.

Oh, and then I get to post pictures so that you can all blast me for my poor living room layout. :D

I have been using 480I over HDMI for my regular DirectTV signal and then use 720P or 1080I when the signal is HD. I find that this works the best for me, buy your mileage may vary.

Thanks,
Bob Doseck
Plasma Concepts

I, too, have jumped on the Cleveland Plasma bandwagon and placed my 50XR5A order with Chris on Monday night. He called up last night to tell me that he was going to charge my card and ship out the display Wednesday (today), so now I just have to wait by the door for my new toy to come.

Oh, and then I get to post pictures so that you can all blast me for my poor living room layout. :D

Yes, pictures!! This thread is lacking in pictures. As soon as my house is finished I will post some also(l am told 4 more weeks :rolleyes: ). I would probably get ridiculed for having my plasma elevated with cinder blocks like it currently is. :D

Me too, which is why I haven't posted any pictures. We're in a temporary apartment until the house sells in South Carolina...(hopefully soon). Right now, I'm using the coffee table in our apartment as the table for the TV. I have cables draped all over for the DVD, XBOX and Cable box. Not very pretty, but this TV is awesome.

Hey JKirkmd, guys......

I've been hanging out on the Panasonic 60U and 600U thread. Had in mind to get the 50" 600U Panasonic but the dates keep getting pushed back and its been a major frustration trying to get product. :confused:

Is the NEC 50XR5A the equivalent of the new Panasonic 50PX600U in features and price? Trying to compare whatever is the closest NEC product. ;)

Thanks!

Is the NEC 50XR5A the equivalent of the new Panasonic 50PX600U in features and price? Trying to compare whatever is the closest NEC product. ;)

Thanks!

Howe, yes the XR5 is the closest NEC product to the PX600U. You will get some addtional features with the NEC, but you should note it does not come with speakers or a stand like the Panny would have. - Just so you don't expect them when it arrives!

Hey JKirkmd, guys......

I've been hanging out on the Panasonic 60U and 600U thread. Had in mind to get the 50" 600U Panasonic but the dates keep getting pushed back and its been a major frustration trying to get product. :confused:

Is the NEC 50XR5A the equivalent of the new Panasonic 50PX600U in features and price? Trying to compare whatever is the closest NEC product. ;)

Thanks!
hey, howe...welcome to/from another Panny refugee!

Actually, I'm getting the 42", but I'm sure the 50" is comparable to the 50PX600U. AND, it's available, NOW! I think some big pluses for the the Panny would be the price from Panasonic Direct, the surround sound speaker system, and the next gen screen, but if you're hooking up to your own speakers, and wall-mounting, much of the advantage goes away.

Plus, did I mention the NEC is available NOW???

And, I'm sure anyone here will agree (and on the Panny thread, I've noticed), the NEC sure looks a lot better than the Pannys! 60 or 600, doesn't matter, the silver just stinks! From reviews I've seen, the PQ differences are probably negligible, and mostly in the eyes of the beholder.

hey, howe...welcome to/from another Panny refugee!

Actually, I'm getting the 42", but I'm sure the 50" is comparable to the 50PX600U. AND, it's available, NOW! I think some big pluses for the the Panny would be the price from Panasonic Direct, the surround sound speaker system, and the next gen screen, but if you're hooking up to your own speakers, and wall-mounting, much of the advantage goes away.

Plus, did I mention the NEC is available NOW???

And, I'm sure anyone here will agree (and on the Panny thread, I've noticed), the NEC sure looks a lot better than the Pannys! 60 or 600, doesn't matter, the silver just stinks! From reviews I've seen, the PQ differences are probably negligible, and mostly in the eyes of the beholder.

Thanks JKirkmd, I appreciate the info. I've seen the 60U and was impressed with the PQ but not with the enclosure. I was actually more impressed with the 500U and 50U in that regard. Nevertheless, I've come to trust Panasonic as a leader in this technology. From extensive reading, I agree their 9G pannel is a step forward by reducing the grid between pixels, anti-reflective filtering, improving already great black levels and reducing price. :D

I'll look into this NEC product. I do need a stand, want built in tuners and sound. PC input, if it just VGA not a desired feature but if its DVI that would be hot. Everyone likes the NEC styling. I liked the Panasonic 600U, in pictures at least, a lot better than the 60U I saw at Best Buy. Bottom line is PQ and price though other factors count after the fact.

If I do go NEC, where might be the best presently recommended deal from a reputable vendor? ;)

I'll look into this NEC product. I do need a stand, want built in tuners and sound. PC input, if it just VGA not a desired feature but if its DVI that would be hot. Everyone likes the NEC styling.

Neither of the 50" NECs have tuners I don't think...

The 50XR5A does have optional speakers that you can purchase and attach... This model also has 2 HDMI and 2 component inputs...

Only the 50XM5A has DVI but no HDMI and only 1 component.

Which brings me to my question...

Just want to confirm.. the only difference in the commercial and comsumer models is the inputs (and which ones except 1080p) right????

I just sold my old TV to I am forced to buy a new one, my lurking has brought me to one of these 2 models of NEC!!!!

Actually the XM5 has 2 component inputs. The BNC input is a component input. You just need the right connectors or adapters.

Thanks JKirkmd, I appreciate the info. I've seen the 60U and was impressed with the PQ but not with the enclosure. I was actually more impressed with the 500U and 50U in that regard. Nevertheless, I've come to trust Panasonic as a leader in this technology. From extensive reading, I agree their 9G pannel is a step forward by reducing the grid between pixels, anti-reflective filtering, improving already great black levels and reducing price. :D

I'll look into this NEC product. I do need a stand, want built in tuners and sound. PC input, if it just VGA not a desired feature but if its DVI that would be hot. Everyone likes the NEC styling. I liked the Panasonic 600U, in pictures at least, a lot better than the 60U I saw at Best Buy. Bottom line is PQ and price though other factors count after the fact.

If I do go NEC, where might be the best presently recommended deal from a reputable vendor? ;)
Looks like we considered a lot of the same things (and certainly the far superior aesthetics of the NEC was a big consderation in my mind). I just could not wait around for the 600s (and would NOT consider the 60s, due to the lack of styling, PIP, and PC input, even though I appreciated Panasonic's technology leadership, as you point out. I'm hoping to find the PQ is equivalent, though, and most people on this thread will support that assumption.

I am getting the optional stand, but foregoing the optional NEC speakers, since I already have better ones with my HTIB, and use a STB that has plenty of tuner capability.

You'll also find that Cleveland Plasma (a sponsor, below) is a well-respected supplier of NECs (as well as Panasonics, if you're still interested!) at good prices, but you can read through other posts for other recommendations, too.

Looks like we considered a lot of the same things (and certainly the far superior aesthetics of the NEC was a big consderation in my mind). I just could not wait around for the 600s (and would NOT consider the 60s, due to the lack of styling, PIP, and PC input, even though I appreciated Panasonic's technology leadership, as you point out. I'm hoping to find the PQ is equivalent, though, and most people on this thread will support that assumption.

I am getting the optional stand, but foregoing the optional NEC speakers, since I already have better ones with my HTIB, and use a STB that has plenty of tuner capability.

You'll also find that Cleveland Plasma (a sponsor, below) is a well-respected supplier of NECs (as well as Panasonics, if you're still interested!) at good prices, but you can read through other posts for other recommendations, too.
I found a local vendor who has this product and will try and get a look at it today. They are mega retail so it will just be a window shop. I'm concerned about the image retention thing people are mentioning. I want to see how the glare factor compares. I watch a significant amount of SD so that's a buying issue. Very few to no one seems to have issues with the new Panasonic on these points, albeit all have glass so there will be some reflections in moderate to high ambient light levels. I'm convinced the Panasonic has extremely quiet fans. Some posters mention the fan on the NEC as audible at times. Beyond that, I expect both products to have exceptional DVD and HD performance.

Well gonna take the plunge!... Thanks for the help and this great thread...NEC XM5 for me....Why is once the decision is made it seems like an ETERNITY until you get your new toy!!!

Whew think I have exhausted every angle and then I find I have a few more questions:) Fortunately they are not decision level questions!

For those that care - I also did extensive comparison between this and the Panny units. The NEC won me over :D

So here goes...

After reading the user manual - think I understand the adjustments/configurations available. (Similar - however - more extensive than I have on my Panny 6UY today).

My quesion is...can I assign multiple saved configurations per input. Or on a related note can I have a seperate configuration saved for. ..lets say..theater 1 on input whatever and a seperate configuration for daylite on input whatever. ("whatever" being equal to the same input).

2 Question - Does anyone have a summary of which adjustments are universal and will overide all other adjustments. I.E. NR for instance?

3 Question - Does anyone know the defaults the NEC ships with? Went through the manual and was not able to discern waht the defaults were - just said there was a reset and what might not work with the default. However that was sporadic information and was not consistant.

As I stated these are not "buying decision" questions. However - are questions whose answers will assist me figuring out the best DVD to mate with this and how I want to cable etc. Of course - I KNOW I could just wait - but ...well....I am sure you understand:)

Thanks
Therese

I found a local vendor who has this product and will try and get a look at it today. They are mega retail so it will just be a window shop. I'm concerned about the image retention thing people are mentioning. I want to see how the glare factor compares. I watch a significant amount of SD so that's a buying issue. Very few to no one seems to have issues with the new Panasonic on these points, albeit all have glass so there will be some reflections in moderate to high ambient light levels. I'm convinced the Panasonic has extremely quiet fans. Some posters mention the fan on the NEC as audible at times. Beyond that, I expect both products to have exceptional DVD and HD performance.
A few things to keep in the back of your mind:

As stated many, many times in this forum, what you see in a store (any store, with the possible exception of a high end botique) will not be set up as well as, nor look as good as what you will see in your own home under your own lighting, seating, etc. conditions.

Image retention diminishes greatly after a couple hundred hours viewing, and is a non-issue.

Since you watch a lot of SD, the NEC's Stadium stretch mode consistently gets higher grades than any of the others out there.

You will want to try it out in your own home, with your own source inputs for a while. For that reason, try to buy from a source that has a liberal 30 return policy.

my .01 (worth half as much)

Neither of the 50" NECs have tuners I don't think...

The 50XR5A does have optional speakers that you can purchase and attach... This model also has 2 HDMI and 2 component inputs...

Only the 50XM5A has DVI but no HDMI and only 1 component.

Which brings me to my question...

Just want to confirm.. the only difference in the commercial and comsumer models is the inputs (and which ones except 1080p) right????

I just sold my old TV to I am forced to buy a new one, my lurking has brought me to one of these 2 models of NEC!!!!

The XR5A will accept 1080P over component 1 input. The XM5A will accept 1080P over DVI and component 1 input.

A few things to keep in the back of your mind:

As stated many, many times in this forum, what you see in a store (any store, with the possible exception of a high end botique) will not be set up as well as, nor look as good as what you will see in your own home under your own lighting, seating, etc. conditions.

Image retention diminishes greatly after a couple hundred hours viewing, and is a non-issue.

Since you watch a lot of SD, the NEC's Stadium stretch mode consistently gets higher grades than any of the others out there.

You will want to try it out in your own home, with your own source inputs for a while. For that reason, try to buy from a source that has a liberal 30 return policy.

my .01 (worth half as much)

Thanks for these comments. The store I intend to visit is a high-end audio salon so I expect better than average set up.

Good to hear that IR is a non issue after time.

I don't usually like "stretched" images so its down to how a typical satellite feed will look on mediocre to good channels.

The XR5A will accept 1080P over component 1 input. The XM5A will accept 1080P over DVI and component 1 input.

Thanks I knew that... just wanted to confirm there weren't any other options or small differences...

I may just get the M5A for the cost difference but having the more useful inputs may be worth the xtra cash in the long run

Hello All- Old Soul with new ID-

The NEC 42XR4 states it has (3) ISF setting in the advance setting control. Is this only on the retail model? As the M4 brochures do not mention this same feature.
Are they really worth anything or just marketing hype? I AVIA and homegrown my own PPD in the past.
TIA

Bob


Panasonic 42THWS5 03'

Well gonna take the plunge!... Thanks for the help and this great thread...NEC XM5 for me....Why is once the decision is made it seems like an ETERNITY until you get your new toy!!!

Whew think I have exhausted every angle and then I find I have a few more questions:) Fortunately they are not decision level questions!

For those that care - I also did extensive comparison between this and the Panny units. The NEC won me over :D

So here goes...


Congratulations, I don't think you'll be dissappointed. :)



After reading the user manual - think I understand the adjustments/configurations available. (Similar - however - more extensive than I have on my Panny 6UY today).

My quesion is...can I assign multiple saved configurations per input. Or on a related note can I have a seperate configuration saved for. ..lets say..theater 1 on input whatever and a seperate configuration for daylite on input whatever. ("whatever" being equal to the same input).


There are 6 separate picture memories. Any and all adjustments are available and appear to stick per memory. This includes the picture mode i.e. Theater 1, normal, bright, as well as the submenu values for white balance and color tune. It also appears that separate white balance submenu settings will stick per color temp setting per memory . The memories will be automatically recalled for the input they are saved for. If you assign more than one memory to an input, it will return to the last memory you had selected for that input. You can still manually select them all as desired and you can reassign them as necessary by doing another save.



2 Question - Does anyone have a summary of which adjustments are universal and will overide all other adjustments. I.E. NR for instance?


As far as I can tell, all adjustments in the "picture" menu are picture memory-specific/custom.



3 Question - Does anyone know the defaults the NEC ships with? Went through the manual and was not able to discern waht the defaults were - just said there was a reset and what might not work with the default. However that was sporadic information and was not consistant.


The default settings for contrast, brightness, tint, saturation are 52,32,32,32 respectively and will turn pink when the value is selected to remind you of the default. The default for sharpness is 15 but this appears leftover from analog source values as edge enhancement over HDMI appears "off" at zero value. There is also a "default" picture mode in the picture menu which returns contrast, brt,tint,sharp,sat, all to defaults. Both the white balance and color tune submenus have reset functions which will return all of the submenu values to defaults if desired.

About the only thing it won't do is wipe your ---. :)

You 'da woman. :)

Cutting back red and magenta to 30 in the color tune menu seems to have solved any issues I had with overdone orange/reds and sunburned fleshtones. NCIS was at least watchable last night. It doesn't seem to have negatively effected the more undersaturated shows either.

Thanks!

Great! If it worked for NCIS, it should work for everything else. (NCIS is consistently so red on every tv that I cannot believe it is filmed this way.)

Now I feel that the money I spent a few years ago to ISF my CRT was worth it!

About the only thing it won't do is wipe your ---. :)

Thanks for the info!! Now if I can figure out a way to get the Harmony to pic up on the memory settings....

The combo(Harm/NEC)might be able to wipe......:)......just about every other combo out!

Therese

Happy to report that my IR issues are all but gone since I adjusted the brightness settings the other day when we were all posting our settings. I can watch CNN or the like, and not have any ticker IR

You 'da woman. :)

Cutting back red and magenta to 30 in the color tune menu seems to have solved any issues I had with overdone orange/reds and sunburned fleshtones. NCIS was at least watchable last night. It doesn't seem to have negatively effected the more undersaturated shows either.

Thanks!
I posted back a day or so about the "over" red. I droped back the magenta-red-& one yellow. it has helped. however, I just haven't had time to watch anything. ME too,
Thanks LisaM & CPcat.
db

You 'da woman. :)

Cutting back red and magenta to 30 in the color tune menu seems to have solved any issues I had with overdone orange/reds and sunburned fleshtones. NCIS was at least watchable last night. It doesn't seem to have negatively effected the more undersaturated shows either.

Thanks!

I have been PM'ed about settings and I have been referring them to your posts. Please post your current settings and don't make me look bad :p

Agree, LisaM can you post your current settings in one place for all of us so we dont' have to do a cpcat + LisaM delta.

I have been keeping links to the evolution on the settings I will post all the links in one place if/when people are interested. I have about 9/10 links to pertinent setting/discussion.

I found a local vendor who has this product and will try and get a look at it today. They are mega retail so it will just be a window shop. I'm concerned about the image retention thing people are mentioning. I want to see how the glare factor compares. I watch a significant amount of SD so that's a buying issue. Very few to no one seems to have issues with the new Panasonic on these points, albeit all have glass so there will be some reflections in moderate to high ambient light levels. I'm convinced the Panasonic has extremely quiet fans. Some posters mention the fan on the NEC as audible at times. Beyond that, I expect both products to have exceptional DVD and HD performance.
Just got back from checking the NEC 50XR5A. The salesman had Direct TV. We looked at HD, Movie Channel and CNN. First there was a BOSE DVD player hooked up by component and then we switched to a high end Marantz DVD with HDMI connection. Tried various scaling from 480 and 780 looking at the latest Star Wars DVD. Good for black levels.

Perhaps settings could be improved, not sure. Blacks were not as black as I remember on the Panasonic even though we dimmed the lights and adjusted brightness lower. The bars above and below the letterbox were a very dark grey and not black, per se. Colors were natural. Could see reflections readily in dark sceenes. Still could see the screen door grid from 4 feet away but not at 7. SD with CNN was mediocre but a bit better with a non HDTV movie channel. I have Dish at home so maybe DirectTV isn't as sharp.

The 42XR4 was nearby and I was very impressed with that. Great picture! So maybe the settings could be improved on the 50."

I liked the design of the NEC's. They are handsome. I need to look at the Panasonic 60U again since there's no 600U to see. I wouldn't buy the 60U but if the 600U hits the streets in like April? Not that its worth holding one's breath for Panansonic the get it together. I'm still on the fence. I didn't see what I needed to make me a NEC customer, yet.

I have been PM'ed about settings and I have been referring them to your posts. Please post your current settings and don't make me look bad :p

O.K. Here are current settings for "Bright" picture mode with inclusion of LisaM's color tune adjustments. This is via HDMI with HDMI set to "high" in the setup menu. If you use component, you'll likely need to set pedestal (setup level) to 3.75 to make the brightness settings equivalent.

Contrast 44
Brt 38 (can adjust +/- 2 for taste without altering grey ramp smoothness)
Color 29
Tint 32
Sharp 0 (for HDMI, may vary for taste, may need to adjust for component input)
NR 2 (set to taste, NR can be at expense of fine detail)
Color temp (mid low customization, highlight mid-low, enter, adjust values to below)
*GR46
*GG42
*GB40
*BR40
*BG40
*BB40
Cinema on
Pic Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low tone auto
Setup level pedestal 0 (set to 3.75 for component input)
Color tune (custom, highlight color tune, enter, adjust to below values)
*Red 30
*Green 32
*Blue 32
*Yellow 32
*Magenta 30
*Cyan 32

To save all to memory, highlight selected memory, highlight "set", press enter

I use the same settings for DVD, but I usually change NR to 1. I have the LG3510a combo DVD/ATSC tuner. My STB is the D*Hughes HTL-HD (also LG made). Both have DVI out. I use AVIA and THX optimizer for calibration as well as some adjustment/tweaking by eye and taste. The brightness/contrast/gamma and color temp settings are set by looking at AVIA needle pulse, black bars, and grey ramp patterns. The saturation/tint is initially set through AVIA blue bars pattern followed by adjustment/tweaking by eye and taste. Sharpness adjustment is via AVIA sharpness pattern and I prefer minimal to no edge enhancement. The color tune adjusments were blatantly plagiarized from LisaM.

Disclaimer: Neither cpcat, inc. nor LisaM "Da Woman" will take any responsiblity/liability for these settings as equipment and personal taste can and do differ. If you begin to smell any strange odors or see any sparks eminate from the screen after applying them cut power immediately and go back to your prior settings.

Thx and possibly stupid question is that for DVD / HDTV or both? And if DVD, just curious what DVD player you use.

Another new owner of NEC plasma. I had been following Panny new plasma thread from the beginning, and I planned to wait for 600U. Browsing around and found your topic. After reading your posts, I decided to give NEC a try :)

Since I feel that I gain a ton of information from this site, I think I should get the Plasma from the sponsors. So I ordered from Cleveland Plasma on Saturday knowing that it wouldn'd be shipped until Monday. Tuesday, the delivery guy called and said I could get my plasma today. That was quick! :D

Unfortunately, I couldn'd found the stand (PX-ST2U) that should be shipped with the plasma. I got only one package. Would it be in the plasma box somewhere? I opened the box already, but I couldn't find anything looks like a TV stand. Am I missing something here?

Could I use the foam stands for the time being? This really ruin my day. Seeing the plasma in front of you, but can't do anything. I might spend time reading manual tonight :o

Anyway, I just contacted Chris, and he is looking at the problem now. Thanks!

Agree, LisaM can you post your current settings in one place for all of us so we dont' have to do a cpcat + LisaM delta.

I have been keeping links to the evolution on the settings I will post all the links in one place if/when people are interested. I have about 9/10 links to pertinent setting/discussion.
I, and I'm sure many others, would appreciate a "library" of those links. CPCat, tony, and LisaM have been very helpful in assembling the settings, and your list would be very much appreciated. I don't expect to get my 42XR4A until next week, but would sure like to know some recommended settings to start with. Thanks!

I might spend time reading manual tonight :o

Anyway, I just contacted Chris, and he is looking at the problem now. Thanks!

Last resort...reading the manual, huh? :) Anyway, Chris is the go-to guy for NEC info, and I'm sure he'll set things right. (plus, I'm hoping the same problem doesn't hapen with mine, since I ordered from Chris, too, and did specifiy the stand, as well!) :D

...
Unfortunately, I couldn'd found the stand (PX-ST2U) that should be shipped with the plasma. I got only one package. Would it be in the plasma box somewhere? I opened the box already, but I couldn't find anything looks like a TV stand. Am I missing something here?

Could I use the foam stands for the time being? This really ruin my day. Seeing the plasma in front of you, but can't do anything. I might spend time reading manual tonight :o

Anyway, I just contacted Chris, and he is looking at the problem now. Thanks!
Congratulations...

The stand will come in a seperate box (mine came later the same day) from a different shipper like UPS. You will know it, it weighs more than 35 pounds, its a great stand IMHO, extremely sturdy, beautiful and pretty easy to install, just have two people. As to using the foam it came in, I was very nervous with mine in the foam untill I got it in the stand, too teetery for me ... Chris had mentioned to me that I could put it temporarily on the carpet, ontop of the floam blanket and lean it against something (like the wall) at a slight angle if I had too. I never had too...

I, and I'm sure many others, would appreciate a "library" of those links. CPCat, tony, and LisaM have been very helpful in assembling the settings, and your list would be very much appreciated. I don't expect to get my 42XR4A until next week, but would sure like to know some recommended settings to start with. Thanks!

I will try to get to it tomorrow... I have a number of links to what I would call important NEC topics/disc(setting, picture, IR, etc) within and without this thread. Then folks will only need to keep one link to the compendium of links.

Another new owner of NEC plasma. I had been following Panny new plasma thread from the beginning, and I planned to wait for 600U. Browsing around and found your topic. After reading your posts, I decided to give NEC a try :)

Since I feel that I gain a ton of information from this site, I think I should get the Plasma from the sponsors. So I ordered from Cleveland Plasma on Saturday knowing that it wouldn'd be shipped until Monday. Tuesday, the delivery guy called and said I could get my plasma today. That was quick! :D

Unfortunately, I couldn'd found the stand (PX-ST2U) that should be shipped with the plasma. I got only one package. Would it be in the plasma box somewhere? I opened the box already, but I couldn't find anything looks like a TV stand. Am I missing something here?

Could I use the foam stands for the time being? This really ruin my day. Seeing the plasma in front of you, but can't do anything. I might spend time reading manual tonight :o

Anyway, I just contacted Chris, and he is looking at the problem now. Thanks!


The stand is shipped by UPS, while the Plasma is shipped Roadway. You will get the stand in a few days if it is like my order. I used the styrofoam shipping corners to hold the TV for the first few days... It worked fine for me... just be careful not to let anyone bump into it.

Thx and possibly stupid question is that for DVD / HDTV or both? And if DVD, just curious what DVD player you use.

See my edit above. :) :)

The stand is shipped by UPS, while the Plasma is shipped Roadway. You will get the stand in a few days if it is like my order. I used the styrofoam shipping corners to hold the TV for the first few days... It worked fine for me... just be careful not to let anyone bump into it.

Thanks for the information. That might be my case too since I got the Plasma so quick, the stand just doesn't catch up. I was trying to use the foam, but it seems to cover the AC connection(the 42XR4A has AC connection at the right side). So I think I need to wait for the stand eventually :o

I output 480i from my Harmon/Kardon and it no doubt gives me the best picture. I am, however, connected with component cables with the DVD player - not HDMI.

Yeah I've read somewhere that some manufacturers optimize their scalers deinterlacers for their component inputs since that's where most 480i will come from.

Agree, LisaM can you post your current settings in one place for all of us so we dont' have to do a cpcat + LisaM delta.

Thanks, cpcat, for posting the settings. The only change that I have is that I set NR to Off. At 1 or 2, I found that it smoothed out the details too much.

Lisa I am impressed....because CPCat is the "Plasma Master"......... :)

He is truly the Yoda of this thread. I am truly honored to have my name even mentioned close to his. :)

Most of us first used the floor and some support to get a quick preview of our new NEC. Not a problem, but remember the following: The manual off-switch is at the bottem and tilting the NEC will shut if off. Also, should you lay it face-down, be very careful of scratching the glass. Finally, when you call your Bother-in-Law over to help hang the unit, try to remind him that fingure prints on the glass are a real bummer.

Oh, the universal wall mount that Chris sells is simple and very good. Don't be afraid of the endless sets of skrews that come with it:there is something in there for every Plasma made.

Thanks, cpcat, for posting the settings. The only change that I have is that I set NR to Off. At 1 or 2, I found that it smoothed out the details too much.

I edited them to indicate adjustments to taste for NR and brightness.

I also added a disclaimer. :)

Here's an interesting thread.... ;)

Review of NEC 42 PDP

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=659287

I'm thinking this is going to be some interesting reading in the next few days :D

On another note...One more question...please....

Does anyone know if the DVI input (on the XM5) accepts 480i? The manual doesn't make this clear. Obvious use - DVD player. Looking at the new Oppo 970H.

Thanks Again!
Therese

I've been culling notes & info from this thread for my reference, figured I'd go ahead and share the info, since someone suggested it a few posts back...not the best format, but it's a starting point; thanks to all those who've shared info on this thread, hope you don't mind my cutting/pasting the info here ;)


Main NEC 50XR5 plasma display thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=622396

NEC FAQ
http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=148

Register your NEC here...
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/SupportCenter/Registration/

---

WALL MOUNT install specifics
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6911452&&#post6911452
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Documents/InstallationGuides/50XR5_IGv10.pdf

---

SERVICE MENU
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6917511&&#post6917511

To access push [EDIT], [EDIT], [EDIT], [EDIT] on the remote.
To leave the SM, repeat the access code or turn off the display.

---

TUNING/CALIBRATION

I suggest looking at the Horizontal Gray Ramp test pattern at Title 1, Chapter 103 (also can be found by menu selecting Chapter 7 - Audio & Video Calibration, Video Test Patterns, Gray Scale & Levels, Grey Steps & Ramps, Horizontal Gray Ramp). It should be smooth with no banding or color shifts across the ramp and linear with no compression at either end. It is also a very useful pattern to set the brightness and contrast to maximize dynamic range for best detail. I use the contrast control to get the white end linear and the brightness control to get the black end linear.

---

Incidentally, color and tint controls are *disabled* on the 50XR5 when feeding the panel native rate so color and tint will need to be adjusted via the HDP. Cinema mode is also fixed to "On" and can't be adjusted and the only available picture settings are "normal" and "default".

---

PICTURE & MODE SETTINGS
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6975457&&#post6975457

There are 6 separate picture memories. Any and all adjustments are available and appear to stick per memory. This includes the picture mode i.e. Theater 1, normal, bright, as well as the submenu values for white balance and color tune. It also appears that separate white balance submenu settings will stick per color temp setting per memory . The memories will be automatically recalled for the input they are saved for. If you assign more than one memory to an input, it will return to the last memory you had selected for that input. You can still manually select them all as desired and you can reassign them as necessary by doing another save.

---

Theater 1 or Normal pic modes both seem good. I agree with turning sharpness all the way down if you are using HDMI/DVI. I use an external scaler and my contrast/bightness will be different than yours, but right now here are my other setttings:

Red Gain (RG), Bias Red (BR), etc
Those are the red, green, and blue gain and bias adjustments found if you
select the color temp in the user menu. These are grey scale adjustments.

Pic mode normal
Temperature settings
*RG 30
*GG 32
*BG 29
*BR 50
*BG 49
*BB 54
Gamma 2.2
Low tone auto
Pedestal 0

I've played with the grey scale while looking at the vertical/horizontal grey ramps on AVIA. The smoother the ramp, the less banding you'll see when watching real material as well. Obviously, a pro ISF'er could do it more precisely but I still think it helps. The pedestal is the IRE setting at which you set the black. Typically, it's 7.5 for Video and 0 for PC. However, when using HDMI setting HDMI to "high" in the setup menu takes care of that already so you need to set pedestal to zero for Video. Using component, set pedestal to 7.5 assuming you are using a standard video input.

I set my color saturation through the scaler. It seems to look the best to me slightly undersaturated if you go by the AVIA blue color bars.

Look at the vertical and horizontal grey ramps on AVIA and the temp settings above should provide smoother ramps. The best default temperature mode seems to be middle low if you want a quick and dirty setup.

---

NEC 50XR5 through HDMI inputs, HDMI set to "high" in setup menu

Contrast 48
Brt 36
Sharp 0
Color 28
Tint 31
Color Temp Mid (at default values, all 40)
Pic mode Theater 1
Gamma 2.2
Pedestal 0
Low tone auto

---

For some reason my brightness is unusually low, the dvd players brightness must have been jacked up or something, but I don't have the remote for it anymore. I think most peoples will be around the 20-30 range.

50 - Contrast
15 - Brightness
28 - Color
28 - Tint
Mid-Low Color Temp
Theatre 1 Pic Mode
Gamma 2.2
Low Tone Auto
Pedestal 0
Gain Red - 26
Gain Green - 22
Gain Blue - 28
Bias Red - 38
Bias Green - 36
Bias Blue - 40

---

More adjustments to "Bright" mode...
With the previous settings I felt the picture was just a little "hot" so I toned down the contrast some. That required boosting the white balance (RGB gain settings) to compensate and keep the AVIA grey ramps smooth. Looking at both the vertical and horizontal ramps, they are the smoothest I've been able to obtain yet and I think it shows with the PQ. I put the prior "bright" setting and this one both in a memory so I can toggle back and forth and I do believe this one I prefer. It seems much smoother overall and maybe not quite as bright but still has plenty of punch.

I increased brightness one tic to 37 and decreased saturation one tic to 29. I always set brightness by the AVIA black bars pattern where I can just barely see the leftmost bar.

Using HDMI, set to "high" in setup menu.


Contrast 44
Brt 37
color 29
tint 32
NR 2
color temp mid low
*GR46
*GG42
*GB40
*BR40
*BG40
*BB40
Cinema on
Pic Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low tone auto
Setup level (pedestal) 0
Color tune all default

---

I would just bump the contrast and brightness down a bit, switch it to theatre 1 (a little darker) and make sure to ramp the sharpness down really low. I am not really sure why they have it so high from the factory but the sharpness introduced many unwanted artifacts in my opinion. I have mine set at around 3 or 4 (16 is default I think).

---

CPCAT + LISAM Settings

Cutting back red and magenta to 30 in the color tune menu seems to have solved any issues I had with overdone orange/reds and sunburned fleshtones. NCIS was at least watchable last night. It doesn't seem to have negatively effected the more undersaturated shows either.

O.K. Here are current settings for "Bright" picture mode with inclusion of LisaM's color tune adjustments. This is via HDMI with HDMI set to "high" in the setup menu. If you use component, you'll likely need to set pedestal (setup level) to 3.75 to make the brightness settings equivalent.

Contrast 44
Brt 38 (can adjust +/- 2 for taste without altering grey ramp smoothness)
Color 29
Tint 32
Sharp 0 (for HDMI, may vary for taste, may need to adjust for component input)
NR 2 (set to taste, NR can be at expense of fine detail)
Color temp (mid low customization, highlight mid-low, enter, adjust values to below)
*GR46
*GG42
*GB40
*BR40
*BG40
*BB40
Cinema on
Pic Bright
Gamma 2.2
Low tone auto
Setup level pedestal 0 (set to 3.75 for component input)
Color tune (custom, highlight color tune, enter, adjust to below values)
*Red 30
*Green 32
*Blue 32
*Yellow 32
*Magenta 30
*Cyan 32

To save all to memory, highlight selected memory, highlight "set", press enter

---

NATIVE RATE via HDMI

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6910803&&#post6910803
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6917691&&#post6917691
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6926935&&#post6926935

I found that 1:1 mapping was a snap. I was making it too hard. Here are the timings (obtained from NEC secondhand) via Lumagen VisionHDP through HDMI:

VTOT 788 HTOT 1526
VACT 768 HACT 1365
VSYN 4 HSYN 50
VFRN 4 HFRN 51

V freq. 60.00 Hz
H freq. 47.20 Hz

Make sure RGB select in setup menu is set to "auto"
Disable orbiting in PDP saver menu
Set image adjust values all to zero.
That's it. Double check signal info in the menu and it should read 1365 x 768 and memory 18.

V-line and H-line patterns via the Lumagen test patterns are perfect one-pixel rows.

---

I've not seen the PQ of the 5060, but I know it does *not* do native and 1:1 over HDMI. That to me would mean at least the electronics are dissimilar.

---

DCypher's computer/HDMI timings with Nvidia
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7184461&&#post7184461

Here's the important note:
Horizontal pixels:
Front-end active is 1368 pixels
back-end active: 1365 pixels

If you don't setup that correctly, it won't sync right!

Hope this helps,
Jeff

Oh yeah... here's a bit more information for you to make things perfect:

go into the NEC's menu and go to the image adjustment:
V-Position: 0
H-Position: +4
V-Height : 0
H-Width: 0

This moves the image 4 pixels to the right without any scaling (fills the entire screen).

...

go into the NEC's menu and go to the image adjustment:
V-Position: 0
H-Position: +4
V-Height : 0
H-Width: 0

This moves the image 4 pixels to the right without any scaling (fills the entire screen).

I'm glad this was brought up again. I just installed a new NVIDIA 6600GT card tonight and went with the DCypher's NVIDIA settings. I then set the Image Adjustments as above, it left me with one unused vertical row of pixels on the right hand side of the display. I bumped it up to +5 and the blank row shifted to the left side and the right side was fine. So somehow I've got 1364x768. I checked to make sure the Orbiter setting was off and the Signal Info shows 1365x768. Any other suggestions?

Here's an interesting thread.... ;)

Review of NEC 42 PDP

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=659287

I'm thinking this is going to be some interesting reading in the next few days :D

On another note...One more question...please....

Does anyone know if the DVI input (on the XM5) accepts 480i? The manual doesn't make this clear. Obvious use - DVD player. Looking at the new Oppo 970H.

Thanks Again!
Therese
Sweet! Glad I made the switch from the Panny! It will be interesting comparing all the settings in a previous post, with the screen shots from the PCMag article. I wonder if those are the settings they used to get the great results?

Hello. A newbie here. I have been doing a lot of research and have decided I will likely get the NEC 50XR5 over the Panasonic 50PHD8UK. I live in Canada and the sellling price of the NEC is only $170 CND (approx. $150US) more than the Panasonic. Since you get 2 HDMI inputs (which are extra on the Panasonic), as well as a longer warranty, and a picture equal to or better than the Panasonic - it seems to make sense to buy the NEC.

A couple of questions:

1) I want to wall mount it - but not too high - about the equivalent height of using the optional stand (I do not want to look "up" all the time to the screen). Would people recommend a flat wall mount or one that has tilt, for that height installation?

2) Is the NEC Vesa compliant for mounts? Are there any particular makes of mounts that people can recommend - or are they all essentially the "same" within each type (fixed or tilt)? Can anyone recommend the Peerless SF660 or ST660?

3) Is anyone using the optional table mount, and have any comments on this option? It just seemed somewhat expensive. I will probably place a storage unit/table underneath to house equipment, so I could go the route of the table mount - except it seems to simply take up space on the table, and its pricey.


I have spent a lot of time researching the monitor, but I don't have a clue about what mount to buy. I realize the mount is a fraction of the cost, but I thought it would be helpfull to draw on the experience of others.

Thanks in advance.

OMG! I just found the lowest price on a 42XR4 I could ever imagine and the store has them in stock too! A few days ago I was looking for a 42" ED PDP to save a couple hundreds dollars, but now that I've found the 42XR4 for only a few hundred more, this will be the one...unless I could find a really good price on a 50XR5. :cool:

Since you get 2 HDMI inputs (which are extra on the Panasonic), as well as a longer warranty, and a picture equal to or better than the Panasonic - it seems to make sense to buy the NEC.

Don't forget the NEC's beautiful industrial design (asthetics).

Anyway if you're going to wall mount it at an optimal viewing height relative to the viewing position then I don't see why you would need a tilt mount.

I too recommend the flat mount. It's cheaper and usually fits the plasma closer to the wall.

3) Is anyone using the optional table mount, and have any comments on this option? It just seemed somewhat expensive. I will probably place a storage unit/table underneath to house equipment, so I could go the route of the table mount - except it seems to simply take up space on the table, and its pricey.


My 42xr4 is sitting on the table stand since there was no option for me to wall-mount it. The stand is very nice - heavy, swivels, looks great, holds the NEC perfectly - but pricey. The panel and stand are on top of my equipment unit and the whole combination works very well.

3) Is anyone using the optional table mount, and have any comments on this option? It just seemed somewhat expensive. I will probably place a storage unit/table underneath to house equipment, so I could go the route of the table mount - except it seems to simply take up space on the table, and its pricey.


I have the table mount for my 61XR4. It's a very sturdy unit and from an aesthetics point of view works very well with the panel.

The viewing height with the stand on my low A/V bench is just perfect.

I went with a stand over wall mounting because I wanted the flexibility to move it with relative ease/safety in case I needed to and getting on/off the wall seemed more risk prone than just sliding the bench around.

I'm using the table swivel mount with my XM5. It's a great stand, very heavy and stable.

I'm glad this was brought up again. I just installed a new NVIDIA 6600GT card tonight and went with the DCypher's NVIDIA settings. I then set the Image Adjustments as above, it left me with one unused vertical row of pixels on the right hand side of the display. I bumped it up to +5 and the blank row shifted to the left side and the right side was fine. So somehow I've got 1364x768. I checked to make sure the Orbiter setting was off and the Signal Info shows 1365x768. Any other suggestions?


The H-position and V-position adjustments on the panel will not necessarily be in one-pixel increments. Is it possible to adjust position through the Nvidia card?

If the signal info says 1365 x 768 and memory 18 then you have native rate. You just need to tweek the output position in finer increments. If you can't adjust it through nvidia, you may need to play around with the h-front and h-back values.

Just in case no one saw the new thread, the 42XR4 got a professional review HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=659287)

What can I say, there are verifying what we already new.

I've been culling notes & info from this thread for my reference, figured I'd go ahead and share the info, since someone suggested it a few posts back...not the best format, but it's a starting point; thanks to all those who've shared info on this thread, hope you don't mind my cutting/pasting the info here ;)

netarc - thanks for all your hard work in consolidating that information. It looks like I've got my work cut out for me when my panel arrives! But, according to that PCMag review, the payoff will be worth it when everything is tweaked just right! It looks like most people use AVIA for a lot of those adjustments - is that the usual recommendation for calibration?

I've been culling notes & info from this thread for my reference, figured I'd go ahead and share the info, since someone suggested it a few posts back...not the best format, but it's a starting point; thanks to all those who've shared info on this thread, hope you don't mind my cutting/pasting the info here ;)




That's great netarc. Thanks for the hard work!

Maybe a moderator can move that entire post to the front of the thread?

It looks like most people use AVIA for a lot of those adjustments - is that the usual recommendation for calibration?

Avia and DVE are the most popular calibration DVDs.

I am a long time Avia user, but have more recently switched to using the GetGray DVD that was debugged by the user community over on the calibration forum.

Full details over there or at www.calibrate.tv.

That's great netarc. Thanks for the hard work!

Maybe a moderator can move that entire post to the front of the thread?
Why not just post it as a "sticky" at the top of the forum? :)

Why not just post it as a "sticky" at the top of the forum? :)

Even better. :)

I guess it depends on how high they'll rate it.

does anyone here acutally have the 61xr4 unit or seen it in person wanting to know is it as outstanding as the 50" unit

Even better. :)

I guess it depends on how high they'll rate it.

Way back when...when I was eagerly following the Panny thread, waiting for the 600U sightings, the mods split off a new thread called: "Official Panasonic PX60/600 Tweaking, Settings, Issues, Technical Thread!" Perhaps we could get a similar one for the NECs? (frankly, I'm surprised there isn't one already, since these are not as new as the 60/600 Pannys)

Way back when...when I was eagerly following the Panny thread, waiting for the 600U sightings, the mods split off a new thread called: "Official Panasonic PX60/600 Tweaking, Settings, Issues, Technical Thread!" Perhaps we could get a similar one for the NECs? (frankly, I'm surprised there isn't one already, since these are not as new as the 60/600 Pannys)

That sounds like the best idea. I am always tweaking and adjusting my settings and love to try other settings as posted too. Should we just start a separate thread with netarc's post or start one fresh...what do you guys think? A sticky would be great, but I think it limits the posts that can be added to it...

does anyone here acutally have the 61xr4 unit or seen it in person wanting to know is it as outstanding as the 50" unit

I've had one in my basement for about a week and a half now.

To summarize, a very impressive unit.

I have my HD cable and Xbox 360 connected via component and my HTPC connected via VGA so both my HDMI inputs are free pending an HTPC upgrade.

I've been playing around with calibration for the last week or so, focussing on the HTPC for the most part, and I'm pretty much dialed in as much as I can be for now short of a full greyscale calibration. I'm waiting to see the SpyderTVPro before I do that. PQ is fabulous. As I go through the collection of DVDs doing comparisons, I'm seeing a lot of stuff that I never noticed before.

I've done a little bit of tweaking on the component inputs, but I'm waiting for some new HD testpatterns to be broadcast up here before tackling that.

EDIT: I forgot to add one thing.

The only negative I have so far is that I have three dead (stuck off) sub-pixels on my unit. A green/red in one place and a red in another.

I've checked with my dealer and NEC (they asked for pictures) and unfortunately these don't fall under the warranty coverage. While I wish they would, I understand the need for a policy and it's pretty reasonable.

In terms of affecting my viewing, if I go looking for the pixel that has both the red/green defect I can find it in certain scenes, but to be honest I rarely notice it when I'm watching movies/TV.

I've had one in my basement for about a week and a half now.

To summarize, a very impressive unit.

I have my HD cable and Xbox 360 connected via component and my HTPC connected via VGA so both my HDMI inputs are free pending an HTPC upgrade.

I've been playing around with calibration for the last week or so, focussing on the HTPC for the most part, and I'm pretty much dialed in as much as I can be for now short of a full greyscale calibration. I'm waiting to see the SpyderTVPro before I do that. PQ is fabulous. As I go through the collection of DVDs doing comparisons, I'm seeing a lot of stuff that I never noticed before.

I've done a little bit of tweaking on the component inputs, but I'm waiting for some new HD testpatterns to be broadcast up here before tackling that.

I do hope you'll post your settings after using the Spyder. ;)

I do hope you'll post your settings after using the Spyder. ;)

Assuming I get one, I definitely will.

As noted in many of the calibration threads, using OTA or cable feeds for calibration is often a crapshoot.

I'm hoping that once the cable HD test patterns are available I will able to correlate what comes out of my HTPC, which can do component output as well, with the broadcast data.

By popular demand :) I started a setting, tweaks and issues thread. Following is the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7360508#post7360508

does anyone here acutally have the 61xr4 unit or seen it in person wanting to know is it as outstanding as the 50" unit
I know that somewhere in this thread there were two people who posted what they thought on the 61". They were very happy with there unit as posted and they had nothing but good things to say to me about the 61" over the phone with a followup phone call.......

I know that somewhere in this thread there were two people who posted what they thought on the 61". They were very happy with there unit as posted and they had nothing but good things to say to me about the 61" over the phone with a followup phone call.......


How do you feel about the 61" nec vs the 65" panny and 61" pio since you sell them

^^^^ The Panasonic is an excellent panel but it quite a bit more than the NEC or Pioneer and to me not worth the extra cash for 4". The NEC and Pioneer use the same screen. The NEC has more inputs, a better warranty, sleaker design, better scalers for starters. The NEC is also about the same price as the Pioneers.

That being said for the buck I vote NEC.

Thanks for the information. That might be my case too since I got the Plasma so quick, the stand just doesn't catch up. I was trying to use the foam, but it seems to cover the AC connection(the 42XR4A has AC connection at the right side). So I think I need to wait for the stand eventually :o

I just want to let you guys know that I got the stand delivered by UPS today. Actually, I missed the delivery, but I saw their bus sitting at the Arby's across my condo, so I just walked there and carried it back :D

The stand PX-ST2U is very heavy and looks as cool as the 42XR4A. I will try to take some pictures this evening.

Kudos to Chris (Cleveland Plasma) for a very satisfied customer service. :)

^^^^ The Panasonic is an excellent panel but it quite a bit more than the NEC or Pioneer and to me not worth the extra cash for 4". The NEC and Pioneer use the same screen. The NEC has more inputs, a better warranty, sleaker design, better scalers for starters. The NEC is also about the same price as the Pioneers.

That being said for the buck I vote NEC.

I second NEC 61". Had mine for more than a month and couldn't be happier. I also purchased it from Chris and I can vouch for his excellent service.

65" Panny was my other choice back then. IMHO, I don't think the extra 4" in a 60" plus plasma makes a huge difference visually. It's huge jump going from 50" to 65", but not so much when you go from 61" to 65". If you plan to hang the unit on the wall, try getting the actual dimensions of both units from the internet and use the blue painters' tape to draw out the units on the wall. To me, the size difference is negligible if you are standing more than 10 feet away. So I went with NEC and ended up using the extra cash for a nice set of surround speakers :)

Hope this helps,

jc

I recently started looking for a large plasma and been reading the avs forum for information - great stuff, thanks .

I am interested in the 61xr4. My question is in the 50” NEC’s model # is 50xr5. Does this mean that the larger 61" TV is a generation behind the 50” or did the numbering start our different?

Any insight you could provide is appreciated.

Thanks
Roy

Roy, yes the numbering just started out different. Both are the current generation panels.

True, but what seems to be the case for the 42XR4 is that the glass is one generation newer than in the 50 or 61. See the spec sheet.

Two days ago my 50xr5a was delivered (thanks Chris at Cleveland Plasma) The display looks great right out of their box, I am following the thread and I have few questions:
I have a comcast dvr box with hdmi, in the box menu I have set to hdmi 1080i I tried 480i but get a bad picture, how do you guys set the second line the 4:3 override, I have options for 480p,strecht 480i and off. In the signal information box I get a resolution of 1920x1080 when I am on hd channels is it normal. Thanks again for this thread.

I have the same box, I think...Motorola 6412 HD dvr. I have my 4:3 override set for 480i. I tried them all and I like the 480i unstretched or anything best. Then I set the TV to stretch in stadium mode any 480i channels.

Setting the moto box to 4:3 & 480i and using the panel's internal scaler should generally provide the best results, at least with panels that have good scalers (e.g., Fuji, NEC, Pio)

If your box has "passthru" you would want to use that as it passes the native resolution of the show to the tv. I know the SA8300HD from Comcast has this, but not sure which box you have.

Unfortunately the Motorola doesn't have a pass-through option. I wish it did, because this NEC doesn't take long to switch from format to format, unlike my hitachi. Hopefully when we get to our new home, we'll have TWC, and get a SA8300HD again.

^^^^ The Panasonic is an excellent panel but it quite a bit more than the NEC or Pioneer and to me not worth the extra cash for 4". The NEC and Pioneer use the same screen. The NEC has more inputs, a better warranty, sleaker design, better scalers for starters. The NEC is also about the same price as the Pioneers.

That being said for the buck I vote NEC.


If money is no issue does the Panny have the better picture quality overall? Just looking to get the best 60" Panel i can get

If money was no object nor size..........overall the NEC will win do to the scalers producing a better picture, especially in the SD range.

Now if you spend another $1000 you can buy an external scaler to get the Panasonic there. (What can I say, I gave a two sided answer.)

Question for Nec owners:

I have the nec 50xr5 and have used it for approx 300 hrs and love it the quality is awesome. But when I watch SD and sometimes on HD when a menu box comes up or a logo like (TBS) in the middle of the screen I can see a lines going from left to right on the tv. So say I have a square in the middle of the screen I would see lines coming off the scree going straight across. Has anyone else seen anything like this? And is there any way to correct this? It is not really a big deal but something that if I could get rid of I would like to.

Thanks

P.S. It looks like when the plasma has to draw something like a white box in the middle of the screen it has some affect on the area around it. For example if the box was in the middle of the screen and the rest of the screen was red you could see a difference in the color to the right and left of the box.

Hello People. I am in dilemma as to what to do. I have been offered a TH-50XVS30 Onyx Panny for $500 more than the NEC 50XR5A. I was pretty much set on the NEC until this. I had not consideredthe Onyx because of the price. Anyone know anything about this unit(Chris??) or have comments? I would really appreciate your input.

The Onyx won't accept 1080P

The ONYX is a nice panel, but I think it has been stated there is no pic quality improvement over the 8UK, so unless you REALLY like the look of the cabinet, I don't think an extra $500 justifies it over the XR5. My opinion only though....if you like it go for it! Come to think of it, doesn't the ONYX use the 7th generation panel? If so, I would definitely go with the NEC. I think Plazman has the Panny 507UY and the NECXR5 and commented that the NEC is a much better pdp.

The ONYX is a nice panel, but I think it has been stated there is no pic quality improvement over the 8UK, so unless you REALLY like the look of the cabinet, I don't think an extra $500 justifies it over the XR5. My opinion only though....if you like it go for it! Come to think of it, doesn't the ONYX use the 7th generation panel? If so, I would definitely go with the NEC. I think Plazman has the Panny 507UY and the NECXR5 and commented that the NEC is a much better pdp.

I'vebeen doing some research on this unit since my request and it looks like the NEC is a better unit in every way. The salesman tried to tell me that the TU-PT700U Digital Media Receiver with the Panny is a better scaler but the specs don't support. while having a separate receiver is attractive it doesn't even support 720p. Looks like a pretty easy decision. I'm glad I didn't cancel my NEC order.

I have the same box, I think...Motorola 6412 HD dvr. I have my 4:3 override set for 480i. I tried them all and I like the 480i unstretched or anything best. Then I set the TV to stretch in stadium mode any 480i channels.
Marky...forgive the dumb question (if it is!), but I'll be getting my XR4A soon, and the moto 6412 from Comcast. Looking at the literature of the 6412, I don't see anything that says "HDMI" as an output. How do you go direct from the 6412 to your PDP? I will use the other NEC HDMI slot for my DVD/AVR output, but thought I'd have an HDMI output on the STB. Any advice? Anyone?

Depending on the vintage of your 6412 it may have DVI instead of HDMI. If that is the case you will need a DVI -> HDMI cable.

HDMI is essentially DVI+audio in a different connector format.

Folks.. I've got a SA8300HD DVR and 50XR5 as well.. Will the picture look better over HDMI vs Component? Also, what resolution/mode should I set my 8300 video setting to? Fixed or Pass Through? Thanks!!

I would use HDMI (I saw a noticeable difference), and DEFINITELY set it to pass through!

Folks.. I've got a SA8300HD DVR and 50XR5 as well.. Will the picture look better over HDMI vs Component? Also, what resolution/mode should I set my 8300 video setting to? Fixed or Pass Through? Thanks!!
What firmware Passport or SARA? ... with Passport...
Select all the output formats 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i that is the effective passthough with the SA83000HD and definitely use HDMI. Just buy a nice cable from one of the sponsors like monoprice no need to pay $150 monster cable and you should get a great picture...I do! :)

There is also SA83000 threads under the HDTV Recorders forums for both SARA and Passport firmware.

Thanks guys.. ordered a some cables from monoprice..

bvader- I'm in Long Beach.. are you going to the grand prix next month?

Depending on the vintage of your 6412 it may have DVI instead of HDMI. If that is the case you will need a DVI -> HDMI cable.

HDMI is essentially DVI+audio in a different connector format.
I guess I'll have to wait to see what box I get. Kinda stinks, though, if they don't have HDMI out, doesn't it? Everyone seems to say the HDMI -> HDMI is the best connection. Or would the DVI -> HDMI result in similar PQ? Which is better video source, then: DVI or Component? (guess I should have waited to order cables - I have 2 x HDMI -> HDMI on order, and being shipped! I can still use one for the DVD, tho)

JKirkMD, I have mine connected with component right now. I may go with a HDMI->DVI later on. I just haven't bought a cable yet. I need to do that because I have to rewire to use my Xbox right now...

I had posed a couple of question regarding the implementation of DVI on the XM5 to NEC. Thought others might be interested. Pardon my somewhat ignorant questions:)

Have to say I am pretty impressed with their customer service. This morning another engineer got back to me..(the first informed me that he would pass me on as I was beyond him...)thought that was great!.

So specifically I wanted to know whether 480i would be handled via DVI. Some implementations do not allow for an interlaced signal to passed - as on some prior NEC displays as well. Does the XM5?

NEC Answer: "480i will be passed and the NEC scaler will handle. For most applications this would be the ideal way to handle." (There was a plug here for the theatersync...I'll skip:))

What testing has been done for 1080p via DVI - supporting both 50/60 and any support for 24/30 - understanding it would be processed to 1080p and then to 768. SPec does not specifiy it can accept this input from a PC...can it?

NEC Answer:"1080p has been tested at 50/60 and have found no issues. No testing for 1080p 24/30 - not sure this is a valid input - to my knowledge no. The spec has a typo that does not list support for 1080p from a PC input. It will take the 1080p 60 from a PC. Multiple sources for 1080p were tested as well as output from pre scalers - (understand that the panel will do best with a native resolution - this was for testing purposes) anticipate source (is there any yet - tongue in cheek) 1080p will be scaled natively."

Do both panels XM5/XR5 employ the same 12 bit processor? If the XM5 can only handle 8 bit max (due to input limitations) - what is happening in the XM5 "differently" than the XR5 when fed 8 bit over DVI than 12 bit over HDMI?

NEC Answer: "Both panels are identical, excluding menu structure and some menu features. (Panel wall for instance) The menu's are different and access to certain items within the menus are different between the two panels." - He did not feel there were meaningful differences..." Both use the same processor. However, processing is different for the DVI input verus HDMI. Essentially the 'extra bits' are employed in the case of the DVI input to 'make up' information". - He then went on to a somewhat more technical explanation that lost me.

Very knowledgeable gentleman. Had some great subjective comments to make about both the XM5/XR5 - what to do in certain applications and how to get the best out of them. We chatted about glass/electronics and the recent PC Mag review of the 42. He clearly was excited over the 42 and the execution they had done on that panel/drivers and electronics.

Well thought I would pass this on in case anyone else has some of these questions....

Therese

I guess I'll have to wait to see what box I get. Kinda stinks, though, if they don't have HDMI out, doesn't it? Everyone seems to say the HDMI -> HDMI is the best connection. Or would the DVI -> HDMI result in similar PQ? Which is better video source, then: DVI or Component? (guess I should have waited to order cables - I have 2 x HDMI -> HDMI on order, and being shipped! I can still use one for the DVD, tho)

My guess is that you aren't going to see a substantive difference between HDMI and DVI. I have used a DVI ---> HDMI cable from Monoprice on my CRT with good success.

After many weeks of agonizing over which plasma to get, I finally pulled the trigger and ordered the 42XR4 from Chris! Very excited to finally get this thing up and running with our new audio system -- it should truly revolutionize movie night at our house! :)

So now I need to figure out the best way to hook this thing up. I have TWC, and they've given me the SA8000HD box, which I believe is the old one (versus the 8300). Does anyone have this box hooked up to their NEC? Is native rate pass through possible? Any tips for getting this hooked up correctly? The installer told me they need to come back to change something in the box when we get the TV, since it's currently hooked up to an old CRT, but I'm hoping I can avoid that since they always seem to want to rewire something in a way that makes no sense.

Also, should I ask TWC for the 8300 (and would they even give it to me)? I started to check out the dedicated thread for these boxes, but it's quite long so I'm hoping maybe I can take a shortcut by checking with you guys first. :D

OUr DVD player is a Panny with HDMI, so I'm thinking that should be pretty simple, with HDMI going to the NEC and digital audio out going to the receiver. I've got all of cpcats and Lisa settings bookmarked which should help me get a head start on getting this thing tweaked. Anything else I need?

Thanks for all your help!
-Jon

Unless they've changed something, the DVI output on the SA8000 isn't activated, so you'd have to use component to connect to it. The 8300 has all outputs available.

I guess I'll have to wait to see what box I get. Kinda stinks, though, if they don't have HDMI out, doesn't it? Everyone seems to say the HDMI -> HDMI is the best connection. Or would the DVI -> HDMI result in similar PQ? Which is better video source, then: DVI or Component? (guess I should have waited to order cables - I have 2 x HDMI -> HDMI on order, and being shipped! I can still use one for the DVD, tho)

Here is a link (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html) with a good explanation about DVI, HDMI, and Component.


The oppo faq section also has a good explanation about DVI/HDMI (http://oppodigital.com/opdv971h_FAQ.htm#B1).

Right now, I have Oppo DVD ->DVI->HDMI-> 42XR4A, and the PQ is pretty good for the most DVDs I have. I might try to compare DVI/HDMI and component some day.

Also, should I ask TWC for the 8300 (and would they even give it to me)? I started to check out the dedicated thread for these boxes, but it's quite long so I'm hoping maybe I can take a shortcut by checking with you guys first. :D


Insist on getting the 8300HD box instead of the 8000. The 8000 has tons of bugs, including audio and video dropouts, etc... You definitely do not want that box. Here in NYC, I've been told that TWC has basically stopped giving out the 8000. TWC has two different types of software - SARA and Passport - depending upon your location. The type of software dictates how the box is initially set up.

After many weeks of agonizing over which plasma to get, I finally pulled the trigger and ordered the 42XR4 from Chris!
...
Also, should I ask TWC for the 8300 (and would they even give it to me)? I started to check out the dedicated thread for these boxes, but it's quite long so I'm hoping maybe I can take a shortcut by checking with you guys first. :D
...
-Jon
Conragts...
From a expansion from an earlier post...

What firmware Passport or SARA? ... with Passport... (So Cal)

1) Select all the output formats 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i that is the effective passthough with the SA83000HD and definitely use HDMI. Just buy a nice cable from one of the sponsors like monoprice no need to pay $150 monster cable and you should get a great picture...I do!

2) Then I use the Digital Optical/Coaxial out to your AVR, (set that in the advanced setting) and you get great 5.1 sound. You can get one of those cheap as well.

3) As to aspect ratio I use 16:9, with stretch for 4:3 and then let the excellent NEC Stadium mode stretch the content when needed.

No need to have someone come out and hookt it up, 2 simple cables, a couple settings and your cooking with gas!

Funny thing TWC in Orange County doesn't "officially" support HDMI (your provider may say the same thing), althought the box and everyting works. (I was told by a tech that "Joe Consumer" is not ready to deal with the quirks/expense of HDMI). I am thinking what quirks/cost one $20 cable and I am happy... ok I had the one on/off quirk but still minor in the grand scheme of things.

There is also SA83000 threads under the HDTV Recorders forums for both SARA and Passport firmware.

There is a quicky FAQ...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7360508#post7360508

BTW... HOB HD has Shrek 2 on it right now through my SA83000 via HDMI, very little tweaking yet, I can stand at 3 ft from my XR50 and it is SOOOOO Sharp it is amazing or astounding not sure which!
Sorry couldn't resist... I am still in awe a week later!

Have you guys seen this?: http://www.pace.co.uk/americas/products/prodinfo.asp?PID=DCT551

I don't have access to HD cable, but this looks pretty cool and it's available from TWC.

Yes that does look cool. Can you elaborate on "available from TWC"?

Edit: Looked on the Pace Site, listed TWC as a customer but couldn't get much deeper than that... but it dooes look cool.

So no one knows or has seen the funny lines that go across your screen when a logo or something else like a box comes on your screen or does anyone listen to me anymore?

So no one knows or has seen the funny lines that go across your screen when a logo or something else like a box comes on your screen or does anyone listen to me anymore?

Haven't seen it on mine. A picture might help.

So no one knows or has seen the funny lines that go across your screen when a logo or something else like a box comes on your screen or does anyone listen to me anymore?

I haven't seen it on the NEC, but I have seen it on the Hitachi when the PC input is on.

So no one knows or has seen the funny lines that go across your screen when a logo or something else like a box comes on your screen or does anyone listen to me anymore?

I see this on both my NEC and Panny. Never bothered me, though.

To all you great 50xr5 owners...

I have been interested in the Denon 3910 DVD player for some time. I am now feeling that the Pioneer DV-79avi would be better because of the 480i feed over HDMI (thanks to all the info. on this thread!).

Does anyone with the 50xr5 have this Denon? Does it exhibit any MB issues (my biggest concern with this unit)? What are you feeding it... 480P over HDMI?

How about the Pioneer DV-79avi... anyone have this hooked up to their 50xr5?
If so, how?

TIA!

shane

Hey Guys: Long time forum member needs to SEE a 50XR5 somewhere in New England before buying on-line.You guys have me 99% convinced this plasma is for me but wife will not allow purchase without inspection first.

I am willing to travel just to get a peek before buying, not allowed to buy one on-line only to have to return it if inspection doesn't work out.
I have called all my local NEC dealers to no avail.

Can anyone help out a fellow member...PLEASE!

Thanks in advance. :D
Steve Longo
Wesford, MA

Is the correct table stand for the 61XR4 model # PX-61ST2U? And is this what it looks like?

http://www.nec.se/upload/bilder/produkter/Plasma/Nya%20modeller%2020051114/Plasma%20Display%20_2.jpg

No that is not the 61" stand. If you can, you might want to consider wall mounting as it will be less. Here is a pic of the stand.

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/images/Products/Accessory/NEW-RES-PX-STAND_61_3-CO.gif
PX-61ST2U

Since somebody earlier mentioned that this thread is lacking pictures, I attach the following:

My 61XR4, in Xbox 360 mode, on the table stand. Gear, from left to right:

Upper: SA8300HD (HDMI), center SP, Xbox 360 (YPbPr), HTPC (VGA)
Lower: Yamaha RCVR, VCR, LD Player.

The boxes holding up the HTPC are temporary. :)

Conragts...
From a expansion from an earlier post...

What firmware Passport or SARA? ... with Passport... (So Cal)

1) Select all the output formats 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i that is the effective passthough with the SA83000HD and definitely use HDMI. Just buy a nice cable from one of the sponsors like monoprice no need to pay $150 monster cable and you should get a great picture...I do!

2) Then I use the Digital Optical/Coaxial out to your AVR, (set that in the advanced setting) and you get great 5.1 sound. You can get one of those cheap as well.

3) As to aspect ratio I use 16:9, with sidebars for 4:3 and then let the excellent NEC Stadium mode stretch the content when needed.

No need to have someone come out and hookt it up, 2 simple cables, a couple settings and your cooking with gas!

Funny thing TWC in Orange County doesn't "officially" support HDMI (your provider may say the same thing), althought the box and everyting works. (I was told by a tech that "Joe Consumer" is not ready to deal with the quirks/expense of HDMI). I am thinking what quirks/cost one $20 cable and I am happy... ok I had the one on/off quirk but still minor in the grand scheme of things.

There is also SA83000 threads under the HDTV Recorders forums for both SARA and Passport firmware.

There is a quicky FAQ...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7360508#post7360508


Thanks for input everyone, I'm going to try and get them to switch out my box for the 8300 once the tv gets here.

Bvader, was looking at monoprice for some cables...do you know what type of digital audio connection the 8300 has?

Thanks!

Thanks for input everyone, I'm going to try and get them to switch out my box for the 8300 once the tv gets here.

Bvader, was looking at monoprice for some cables...do you know what type of digital audio connection the 8300 has?

Thanks!

The 8300 has both optical and digital coax.

The 8300 has both optical and digital coax.

Thanks, would that be the optical toslink here? http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&style=

exactly

I wish my 50" would change into a 61". That is sweet jvincent .

Since somebody earlier mentioned that this thread is lacking pictures, I attach the following:

My 61XR4, in Xbox 360 mode, on the table stand. Gear, from left to right:

Upper: SA8300HD (HDMI), center SP, Xbox 360 (YPbPr), HTPC (VGA)
Lower: Yamaha RCVR, VCR, LD Player.

The boxes holding up the HTPC are temporary. :)

Really nice. Hmmm. 61XR5? Has a nice ring to it. Maybe in a few years...

Well I got my 50XR5, my SA8300HD and my HDMI cable for Charter in Southern California and it does not work. I keep getting a "copy protection error" HDMI blocked.

The specific error is "your TV does not Support HDCP" , use component outputs.

The wierd thing is, when I used a DVI-->HDMI cable w/ a different cable box (MOXI) , it works just fine


Any ideas?

Since somebody earlier mentioned that this thread is lacking pictures, I attach the following:

My 61XR4, in Xbox 360 mode, on the table stand. Gear, from left to right:

Upper: SA8300HD (HDMI), center SP, Xbox 360 (YPbPr), HTPC (VGA)
Lower: Yamaha RCVR, VCR, LD Player.

The boxes holding up the HTPC are temporary. :)

Thanks for posting that pic, very nice! The stand for the 61" is very nice looking. Do you mind taking a direct front angle with the lights off?

Well I got my 50XR5, my SA8300HD and my HDMI cable for Charter in Southern California and it does not work. I keep getting a "copy protection error" HDMI blocked.

The specific error is "your TV does not Support HDCP" , use component outputs.

The wierd thing is, when I used a DVI-->HDMI cable w/ a different cable box (MOXI) , it works just fine


Any ideas?

First to set your mind at ease HDCP is supported on the 50XR5
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/documents/ColorBrochures/NEC100519.pdf

The reason it works over DVI is audio is not carried by DVI and HDCP is Copy Protection for Digital Audio over HDMI, so that really does not prove or disprove anything.

What firmware does your SA8300HD use, Passport or Sara, you should be able to see that when you reboot the box and display it on the screen (turn you contrast down). I am only familiar with Passport. If it is is SARA check out this thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859

I have not experienced this, mine worked first try :o , but I understand and maybe some else can give you further details but this error ocurrs with the "HDMI Handshake" is not completed correctly between the DVR and the TV. You can take a look at the 8300 threads.

Also You may just have a bad SA8300 box, or you may want to power everything down, check all the cables make sure the HDMI cables are completely seated, (they are not the most secure connectors), make sure you only have the HDMI and optical out connected, turn on the TV, reboot the SA 8300 , see what firmware there is, let it go the cycle. It also seem to work better for me to power up the SA8300 first and then the TV (as an ongoing basis), other say other order, you can try both combinations. Also some people experience problems if you have both the HDMI and component hooked up at the same time.

Did you set the Digital Audio Out setting (on passport not sure on SARA)?

Hope this helps a bit...

Thanks for posting that pic, very nice! The stand for the 61" is very nice looking. Do you mind taking a direct front angle with the lights off?

By request. PBS on the screen. The lights are actually dimmed, but the exposure was long enough so that you can actually see the stand.

By request. PBS on the screen. The lights are actually dimmed, but the exposure was long enough so that you can actually see the stand.

AWESOME!!! Thank you!! :eek:

That 61 is seriously nice. Thanks for posting the picture.

Are you going to trade your 42" for one Lisa :D

I wasn't thinking of trading. I was thinking of adding, once I found the $$. :) I love my 42...it isn't going anywhere.

Hi

I know there are already some threads reg. Nec XR 5, but most of them are drifting away of the main issue which is PICTURE QUALITY!!!

I really would appreciate if you could post here your final comments regarding the NEC XR5 after testing/watching this display since a few time.

LOOKING FORWARD ON YOUR FINAL OPINION!!!

thx!

Well I got my 50XR5, my SA8300HD and my HDMI cable for Charter in Southern California and it does not work. I keep getting a "copy protection error" HDMI blocked.

The specific error is "your TV does not Support HDCP" , use component outputs.

The wierd thing is, when I used a DVI-->HDMI cable w/ a different cable box (MOXI) , it works just fine


Any ideas? Had same problem with SA8300HD and 50XR5. Got this suggestion from another thread, worked for me: connect both HDMI and component from 8300, leave NEC on component. Then unplug component and switch NEC to HDMI input. Worked for me.

Honestly, though, I don't see much difference between HDMI and component in HD. Component SD PQ actually seemed a little better to me.

Hi

I know there are already some threads reg. Nec XR 5, but most of them are drifting away of the main issue which is PICTURE QUALITY!!!

I really would appreciate if you could post here your final comments regarding the NEC XR5 after testing/watching this display since a few time.You'll catch a lot more of the XR5 owners by posting your PICTURE QUALITY questions in the big thread since they're subscribed and get emails alerting them to your new message. But since so many have already commented on the great PQ on these new NECs, how many more confirmations do you need? :D

And even if everybody else loves their picture quality, it can go to crap real fast if your particular source is poor (like Satellite for instance).

The panel is the nicest I have seen for the pricing. No regreats on desiding to hang one on my wall :D

Hi

I know there are already some threads reg. Nec XR 5, but most of them are drifting away of the main issue which is PICTURE QUALITY!!!

I really would appreciate if you could post here your final comments regarding the NEC XR5 after testing/watching this display since a few time.

LOOKING FORWARD ON YOUR FINAL OPINION!!!

thx!

If you read through the thread (all zillion pages of it!), I think that you will find a ton of comments on the picture quality of both the 42 and 50 inch NECs. Those comments are what apparently has driven so many people to buy these panels sight unseen.

Since somebody earlier mentioned that this thread is lacking pictures, I attach the following:

My 61XR4, in Xbox 360 mode, on the table stand. Gear, from left to right:

Upper: SA8300HD (HDMI), center SP, Xbox 360 (YPbPr), HTPC (VGA)
Lower: Yamaha RCVR, VCR, LD Player.

The boxes holding up the HTPC are temporary. :)


Hi,
any concerns with "image ritention" when playing games ?

I have owned my XM2 for now 2+ years an love it.

I have noticed it is sensitive to static images, even though so far I don't think any ritention has ever turned into burn-in. I do not however play games on the set. Just curious. When I notice ritention I use the the "white screen" setting for a couple of minutes and then all is good.

ww

LisaM (or any other 42XR owners...)
I own a 50XR, possibly looking at a 42XR for Pops. As far as I can tell, seems like you are really happy with your 42...What is your viewing distance? Pops is at 10-11'ft , I am afraid that a 50 may be a bit too much/overwheming (I sit about 12-13 and 50 is perfect, seemed big at first but I have settled in). Just looking for a 42" owners opinion.

I was finally able to massage my Brother-in-law's fingureprints from my 50XM5's glass that got there when we hung it on the wall. I used the smoothest silk tie I own. It worked wonders.

Picture quaity on my 50XR5 is really good. Even SD, I do however notice that the blacks are not as black as my panasonic 42pwd5uy.. But as a trade off, the scaler is light years better.

Now I have a quandry.. I'd really like a bigger set.. I thought 50 would work but the space really demands a 60" or better..

I've been told the black level on the 61" isn't as good as the 50" which may push me to a panny 65..

Picture quaity on my 50XR5 is really good. Even SD, I do however notice that the blacks are not as black as my panasonic 42pwd5uy.. But as a trade off, the scaler is light years better.

Now I have a quandry.. I'd really like a bigger set.. I thought 50 would work but the space really demands a 60" or better..

I've been told the black level on the 61" isn't as good as the 50" which may push me to a panny 65..

Did you get the HDMI issue resolved?

LisaM (or any other 42XR owners...)
I own a 50XR, possibly looking at a 42XR for Pops. As far as I can tell, seems like you are really happy with your 42...What is your viewing distance? Pops is at 10-11'ft , I am afraid that a 50 may be a bit too much/overwheming (I sit about 12-13 and 50 is perfect, seemed big at first but I have settled in). Just looking for a 42" owners opinion.

My 42xr4 is in my bedroom and my viewing distance is 8-9 feet. I love the 42xr4. Could I have gone for a 50? Probably but this is because I have a 55 inch CRT in the living room where my viewing distance is 9 feet so I am used to it.

Would your dad be comfortable at that distance with a bigger panel? Do you have a decent electronics store near you where he could sit and watch a 50 inch panel from 10-11 feet for about a half hour? Alternatively, if you live close to him, perhaps he could move a chair 10-11 feet from your 50 inch panel as a test?

bvader- Thanks for reminding me. Yes I did, I shut everything off (including the TV) and then re-started it all and no more message. Odd, because I did that quite a few times before.. but.. either way, I'm pretty happy its fixed.

Thanks for everyones help.

Ive got noticeable image retention when I use the "guide" function of my cable box.. Also noticed it last night when a movie was on a particular scene for a while and then switched to another scene.. I could still clearly see the outlines of the walls in the previous scene.. I hope this gets better as I get more hours on the set.

Michael

My 42xr4 is in my bedroom and my viewing distance is 8-9 feet. I love the 42xr4. Could I have gone for a 50? Probably but this is because I have a 55 inch CRT in the living room where my viewing distance is 9 feet so I am used to it.

Would your dad be comfortable at that distance with a bigger panel? Do you have a decent electronics store near you where he could sit and watch a 50 inch panel from 10-11 feet for about a half hour? Alternatively, if you live close to him, perhaps he could move a chair 10-11 feet from your 50 inch panel as a test?

Thanks for the info and suggestions. I had him measure his distance and he is going to some Retailers, but as you know it can be a bit hard to judge Panels there. Unfortunately we live in different states, but he has seen some at his buddiies house. I also suggested to him to make a cardboard model if he really want to judge size at home.

LisaM (or any other 42XR owners...)
I own a 50XR, possibly looking at a 42XR for Pops. As far as I can tell, seems like you are really happy with your 42...What is your viewing distance? Pops is at 10-11'ft , I am afraid that a 50 may be a bit too much/overwheming (I sit about 12-13 and 50 is perfect, seemed big at first but I have settled in). Just looking for a 42" owners opinion.

I love my 42XR4, I've had it since January. My room's seating has viewing distances from 5-11 feet, and the TV fits my needs perfectly.

I think the perceived impact on your room is determined in large part by what you're used to watching. I graduated from a 20" CRT set, so anything seems large compared to that.

Like most people on these forums, I bought the set without seeing it in person beforehand -- with zero regrets.

good luck.

Hi,
any concerns with "image ritention" when playing games ?


None here. My 61XR4 is getting pretty much 50/50 time on the Xbox 360 and TV watching (a mix of SD and HD) and I only ever noticed image retention when it was only a couple of days old.

I'm up near 120 hours of viewing time now and with the contrast/brightness set up properly I don't think IR is an issue.

NEC 42xr4 and 50xr5 owners:

At what distance from the screen does SD viewing achieve an acceptible PQ for you? Acceptible PQ = no SDE, artifacts do not drive you crazy, and general acceptible viewing experience for most major SD channels.

I'm hoping to get a large sampling of responses. Please respond in feet, and remember to note which model you have. You might also want to mention the SD source; mine is TWC digital.

Thanks for participating in the survey!

thanks tony17 for your great response. this is a repost for sluggardly subscribers of the official thread who did not see my fabulous independent thread

My 42xr4 is in my bedroom and my viewing distance is 8-9 feet. I love the 42xr4. Could I have gone for a 50? Probably but this is because I have a 55 inch CRT in the living room where my viewing distance is 9 feet so I am used to it.

Would your dad be comfortable at that distance with a bigger panel? Do you have a decent electronics store near you where he could sit and watch a 50 inch panel from 10-11 feet for about a half hour? Alternatively, if you live close to him, perhaps he could move a chair 10-11 feet from your 50 inch panel as a test?
Did you say you have a 55" CRT? Do you mean a RPTV? I have never seen a 55"CRT. Just curious.

Did you say you have a 55" CRT? Do you mean a RPTV? I have never seen a 55"CRT. Just curious.

Yup, I meant a 55" rear projection CRT.

And even if everybody else loves their picture quality, it can go to crap real fast if your particular source is poor (like Satellite for instance).

Hmmm....wait a moment - I thought one of the strengths of the NEC that folks were touting was that it did a pretty good job of displaying SD content, even the compressed stuff; folks keep saying it's on a par with the Fujitsu's AVM-II, after all.

Is this _not_ the case, then?

I can't speak for anyone with Satellite but my NEC displays SD from a TWC HD dvr extremely well. The PQ is surprisingly good.

I found something funny in the upper left hand corner of my 50XR5's plasma screen.. I originally thought it was a 1/4" vertical hairline crack, but when I took a picture of it, it looks like a rectangle of some sort..

Anyone know what this is? Does anyone else have this? (I hope!!)

I posted the picture in my gallery ..

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/20174/cat/500/ppuser/40856

SD on my XR5 looks better than on my Panny 42PWD5UY using the same SA8300HD converter box at 10-11'

I find it astonishing how DIFFERENT a show on the same channel (i.e. NBC, CBS)can look (even HD) based on how it was filmed, how the image was set up on the post production end etc..

For example, Gray's Anatomy last night in HD.. The picture looked pretty washed out.. I started fretting re: black levels etc.. But then, the show cut to a scene of a city a night w/ night time traffic lights etc. The blacks looked GREAT on that scene, the colors looked incredible. Then, back to the actors, washed out..

I evem walked down the hall to take a look at my older Panny SD set on the same channel, it looked just as washed out.

Later, I was watching Alien vs. Predator (on HBO HD).. the blacks looked really good in some sections, not so hot in others.

I notice a similar trend with DVD's.. On Chronicles of Riddick, the black level and frankly the rest of the picture ALWAYS look spectacular. Then, there are other DVD's where the image just looks OK. Same XR5, same resolution, same DVD player..

NEC 42xr4 and 50xr5 owners:

At what distance from the screen does SD viewing achieve an acceptible PQ for you? Acceptible PQ = no SDE, artifacts do not drive you crazy, and general acceptible viewing experience for most major SD channels.


I sit 9 feet from my 61XR4 and the SD from my digital cable box is quite acceptable.

BTW, here's a pic of the stand that the 61" uses -

Table stand (http://www.electrograph.com/prodspec.aspx?prodid=321100185153&prodmfrpt=PX-61ST1U)

Anyone know what this is? Does anyone else have this? (I hope!!)


It looks like a retaining clip or shim that sits between the clip and the glass. If it's a shim it may have slipped loose during assembly.

BTW, here's a pic of the stand that the 61" uses -
Table stand (http://www.electrograph.com/prodspec.aspx?prodid=321100185153&prodmfrpt=PX-61ST1U)

That is LAST years stand. Below is the new one.
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/images/Products/Accessory/NEW-RES-PX-STAND_61_3-CO.gif
PX-61ST2U

I found something funny in the upper left hand corner of my 50XR5's plasma screen.. I originally thought it was a 1/4" vertical hairline crack, but when I took a picture of it, it looks like a rectangle of some sort..

Anyone know what this is? Does anyone else have this? (I hope!!)

I posted the picture in my gallery ..

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/20174/cat/500/ppuser/40856
Ok and I thought I was looking waaaaayyy to close at my panel.

I can see something which I believe is the same thing ~1/4" x 1/16" x Extremly thin., it looks like a film, tape/protection, laminate overlap. Mine has it in the TL, TR, & BL corners, it is not on the bottom right or at least I cannot see it. I do not know what it is but it looks very "orderly" and part of the panel to me and so I choose to accept it. :cool:

That is LAST years stand. Below is the new one.
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/cms/images/Products/Accessory/NEW-RES-PX-STAND_61_3-CO.gif
PX-61ST2U
Hmmm...thanks, CP - I was told that this stand wouldn't work on the 61" ... but then again the model # actually _has_ "61" in it, so wtf? Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to dbl-check!

Hmmm...thanks, CP - I was told that this stand wouldn't work on the 61" ... but then again the model # actually _has_ "61" in it, so wtf? Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to dbl-check!
For further confirmation there are two great pictures of the 61 and/in the stand by jvincent in the following posts.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7376519&&#post7376519
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7378342&&#post7378342

LisaM (or any other 42XR owners...)
I own a 50XR, possibly looking at a 42XR for Pops. As far as I can tell, seems like you are really happy with your 42...What is your viewing distance? Pops is at 10-11'ft , I am afraid that a 50 may be a bit too much/overwheming (I sit about 12-13 and 50 is perfect, seemed big at first but I have settled in). Just looking for a 42" owners opinion.

I have the NEC 50" and my viewing distance is 8 feet... only had the set for a week now and while I wouldn't go any closer, it is wonderful at this distance. DVD's especially!

It looks like a retaining clip or shim that sits between the clip and the glass. If it's a shim it may have slipped loose during assembly.

Actually, I have the same tiny rectangle in my new 50XR5. It appears to be a standard part of the panel's construction.

I found something funny in the upper left hand corner of my 50XR5's plasma screen.. I originally thought it was a 1/4" vertical hairline crack, but when I took a picture of it, it looks like a rectangle of some sort..

Anyone know what this is? Does anyone else have this? (I hope!!)

I posted the picture in my gallery ..

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/20174/cat/500/ppuser/40856

I have one in all 4 corners, beneath the glass. I had to get my flashlight out to see it. :)

Im ready to purchase my first plasma,Ive done my research now Im down to two choices.Either the panasonic th-42phd8uk or nec px-42xr4a,the nec is more money,looks alittle nicer,better warranty then the panasonic I believe.Im gathering picture quality is close and the panasonic is maybe better in the blacks.Any help here would be appreciated.

Sound like you are done desiding. Good choice. :D

Im ready to purchase my first plasma,Ive done my research now Im down to two choices.Either the panasonic th-42phd8uk or nec px-42xr4a,the nec is more money,looks alittle nicer,better warranty then the panasonic I believe.Im gathering picture quality is close and the panasonic is maybe better in the blacks.Any help here would be appreciated.
------------------

Equivalent picture quality.....Panny better if you watch DVD, NEC better for SD TV. (due to better scaler IMHO) HDTV doesn't really matter, since both are fantastic...

NEC picture is brighter I believe.

see if the price difference justifies the additional NEC features.

I have neither set, but am looking to buy a 42 as well :)

I find that the colors on the NEC are "punchier" than those on the Panasonic - more akin to the Pioneer. I think that the blacks are equal. I struggled with the same decision and bought the NEC due to the warranty, availability, picture that was described as "more 3D" and the reports of great colors.

I find that the colors on the NEC are "punchier" than those on the Panasonic - more akin to the Pioneer. I think that the blacks are equal. I struggled with the same decision and bought the NEC due to the warranty, availability, picture that was described as "more 3D" and the reports of great colors.


Lisa, if I have read correctly this is true for the 42's which seem to have a couple of features the 50's do not have. The 50 nec and panny may be a little closer in picture with the slight nod to the nec. Only reason I have not bought the nec is I am waiting on the Panny 58 60u. If it does come in at a msrp of $4,500, it will be to hard to pass up. :)

I find that the colors on the NEC are "punchier" than those on the Panasonic - more akin to the Pioneer. I think that the blacks are equal. I struggled with the same decision and bought the NEC due to the warranty, availability, picture that was described as "more 3D" and the reports of great colors.
----------

I believe the NEC has more colors, while the Panny has a higher grey scale gradient and somewhat deeper blacks. The NEC also has an overall brighter screen.....

The Panny 8UK looks pretty 3 D to me as well! The Pio colors seem a little 'fake' to me. I also tend to get a little bit of an eye sore when I look at a Pio 5060 (or even NEC XR5) from less than 8 ft. The Panny on the other hand seems fine from 8 ft - could be the lower brightness and deeper blacks (not sure why Panny claims to have the industry's highest brightness levels, when it is obvious they dont!)

The new Panny PX 60U at least on paper have the same number of colors as the NEC and even higher grey scales the current commercial line - I sure can't tell from viewing them though!

If PQ was my ONLY concern I would get the Panny 8UK (or better yet the 65 Panny) with little hesitation. But for all around value, the XR5 is still on top for me. I'm trying to convince myself to like a Fujitsu, but all the recent ones I have had an opportunity to view don't seem as sharp or defined as the Pannys (or even XR5). Everyone says the Fujitsus are the best, but except for better feeds in pro shops, I am not keen enough to see a discernable difference with my preferred NEC and Panny sets (if anything, the picture appears more grainy to me)...

If it does come in at a msrp of $4,500, it will be to hard to pass up. :) the key word is "If" and "When"

Thanks everyone for checking your XR5s for me re: the black rectangle.. NEC support guys had never heard of it.. I'm just glad it's not something broken.

Cheers.

I have been following this thread for awhile now and have garnered some great information. You folks really know your stuff and AVS Forum is a wonderful resource tool.

I'm sure you are all sick of the image retention/after-imaging discussion, but please indulge me and help me get over my phobia! ;) (I apologize ahead of time because this is going to be a little bit wordy).

Prior to upgrading to the NEC 50xr5a, I owned a Sony PFM-42X1 series plasma and did not notice this issue. I have a little over 300 hours on my 50xr5a. I followed the suggestions I found here and used a DVD loop to break-in my plasma (in between watching it myself, of course). I primarily watch the ESPN HD channels, Universal HD, Discovery HD, and movies. For a brief period of time, I also had my Xbox 360 hooked up playing Tiger Woods golf.

I first noticed the issue within the first 50 hours when I was watching an HD channel that was in between programming and displayed a 4:3 image for about 15 minutes prior to starting the next program. When the HD programming started back up, I could tell that the portion of the screen that had the black bars looked as if it was in shadow. It was noticeably darker than the middle of the screen. Several minutes of 16:9 viewing and the screen "washed" back to normal with no permanent issues. I began reading this thread and decided I hadn't broken in the plasma enough and began the DVD looping to run up the hours a little faster. I paid more attention to the after-imaging after that. I was surprised to see that even on Discovery HD after a 4:3 commercial break for a couple of minutes, the sides of the screen would be in shadow for a little bit after that. To make a way too long story short, I'm now up to 300 hours, but I can still see shadowing even after short 4:3 commercial breaks. After 300 hours, I'm surprised it's still noticeable.

In case you care about my settings...I've modified the picture settings very slightly from the factory settings. I didn't really see a need since I love the PQ.

Settings from the Picture Menu:
Contrast - 45
Brightness - 32
Sharpness - 16
Color - 32
Tint - 32
NR - OFF
Color Temp - Middle
Cinema Mode - ON
Picture Mode - Normal
Gamma - 2.2
Low Tone - Auto
Setup Level - 0%

Here are my thoughts/questions:
1) Am I making too much of this and it is "normal" NEC plasma behavior and as long as I'm not sitting on black bars, ESPN logos, or XBox games for more than 8 hours, I'm OK? If I watch a movie or 4:3 programming for a couple hours, several minutes of 16:9 viewing will "wash" it back to normal.
2) I've broken in the plasma for 300 hours, but the plasma needs to have more time under its belt before this dissipates and the after-imaging isn't noticeable.
3) My settings are wrong somehow and I need to back things down.
4) I'm over-sensitive to things like this and I need to sell my NEC, pull my 13" black and white out of the closet, and just sit really, really close. :eek:
5) Some combination of the above or another combination I haven't thought of.

I would love to hook the Xbox 360 back up but need to get beyond these questions. Any guidance or advice or answers you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be thorough. Remember, I'm a new member - treat me gently. :D

I have been following this thread for awhile now and have garnered some great information. You folks really know your stuff and AVS Forum is a wonderful resource tool.

I'm sure you are all sick of the image retention/after-imaging discussion, but please indulge me and help me get over my phobia! ;) (I apologize ahead of time because this is going to be a little bit wordy).

Prior to upgrading to the NEC 50xr5a, I owned a Sony PFM-42X1 series plasma and did not notice this issue. I have a little over 300 hours on my 50xr5a. I followed the suggestions I found here and used a DVD loop to break-in my plasma (in between watching it myself, of course). I primarily watch the ESPN HD channels, Universal HD, Discovery HD, and movies. For a brief period of time, I also had my Xbox 360 hooked up playing Tiger Woods golf.

I first noticed the issue within the first 50 hours when I was watching an HD channel that was in between programming and displayed a 4:3 image for about 15 minutes prior to starting the next program. When the HD programming started back up, I could tell that the portion of the screen that had the black bars looked as if it was in shadow. It was noticeably darker than the middle of the screen. Several minutes of 16:9 viewing and the screen "washed" back to normal with no permanent issues. I began reading this thread and decided I hadn't broken in the plasma enough and began the DVD looping to run up the hours a little faster. I paid more attention to the after-imaging after that. I was surprised to see that even on Discovery HD after a 4:3 commercial break for a couple of minutes, the sides of the screen would be in shadow for a little bit after that. To make a way too long story short, I'm now up to 300 hours, but I can still see shadowing even after short 4:3 commercial breaks. After 300 hours, I'm surprised it's still noticeable.

In case you care about my settings...I've modified the picture settings very slightly from the factory settings. I didn't really see a need since I love the PQ.

Settings from the Picture Menu:
Contrast - 45
Brightness - 32
Sharpness - 16
Color - 32
Tint - 32
NR - OFF
Color Temp - Middle
Cinema Mode - ON
Picture Mode - Normal
Gamma - 2.2
Low Tone - Auto
Setup Level - 0%

Here are my thoughts/questions:
1) Am I making too much of this and it is "normal" NEC plasma behavior and as long as I'm not sitting on black bars, ESPN logos, or XBox games for more than 8 hours, I'm OK? If I watch a movie or 4:3 programming for a couple hours, several minutes of 16:9 viewing will "wash" it back to normal.
2) I've broken in the plasma for 300 hours, but the plasma needs to have more time under its belt before this dissipates and the after-imaging isn't noticeable.
3) My settings are wrong somehow and I need to back things down.
4) I'm over-sensitive to things like this and I need to sell my NEC, pull my 13" black and white out of the closet, and just sit really, really close. :eek:
5) Some combination of the above or another combination I haven't thought of.

I would love to hook the Xbox 360 back up but need to get beyond these questions. Any guidance or advice or answers you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be thorough. Remember, I'm a new member - treat me gently. :D

-----------

I guess some people are bothered by this IR in the NEC. This is the trade-off for the brilliant colors and bright screen. My viewing habits make the IR problem a non issue....

When originally breaking it in during the first 100 hours, I always ran Discovery HD in Stadium or 2:35 mode so that there were never any 4:3 black bars on the sides. Obviously, it is too late for you to do this. Have you tried running the screen wiper? I have never used it but others here with more experience than I will be able to chime in about it. From looking at your settings, I don't see anything obvious that would be causing a problem. Does the shadowing ever go away after you run a 16:9 program? If not, that might be cause for service. If it washes it back to normal, then I think you are okay. I would definitely NOT go back to the 13 inch B&W. :)

When originally breaking it in during the first 100 hours, I always ran Discovery HD in Stadium or 2:35 mode so that there were never any 4:3 black bars on the sides. Obviously, it is too late for you to do this. Have you tried running the screen wiper? I have never used it but others here with more experience than I will be able to chime in about it. From looking at your settings, I don't see anything obvious that would be causing a problem. Does the shadowing ever go away after you run a 16:9 program? If not, that might be cause for service. If it washes it back to normal, then I think you are okay. I would definitely NOT go back to the 13 inch B&W. :)


Yes, it does go away after viewing 16:9 content. I am not seeing any permanent "burn-in" type issue. It just unnerved me a little bit when a very small amount of time displaying black bars caused a shadowing effect. However, it does return to normal after several minutes of 16:9 viewing so maybe I'm just over-sensitive to this issue.

Thanks for the suggestion of running Discovery HD in Stadium for break-in, but I've been using a DVD loop so I think I'm good there. Anyway, I'm well past the first 100 hours. :confused:

MarkDD: I seem to recall a post by someone who had 500 hours on his NEC. I believe that he reported that IR seemed to be much better at that point - a bit beyond where you are now. You might try searching this thread to see if you can find it. If so, there is hope for you. :)

Actually, my comment about running Discovery HD in 2:35 was for anyone who was still in the first 100 hours. Since you are obviously past that point, you might try running screen wiper.

SD on my XR5 looks better than on my Panny 42PWD5UY using the same SA8300HD converter box at 10-11'

I find it astonishing how DIFFERENT a show on the same channel (i.e. NBC, CBS)can look (even HD) based on how it was filmed, how the image was set up on the post production end etc..

For example, Gray's Anatomy last night in HD.. The picture looked pretty washed out.. I started fretting re: black levels etc.. But then, the show cut to a scene of a city a night w/ night time traffic lights etc. The blacks looked GREAT on that scene, the colors looked incredible. Then, back to the actors, washed out..

I evem walked down the hall to take a look at my older Panny SD set on the same channel, it looked just as washed out.

Later, I was watching Alien vs. Predator (on HBO HD).. the blacks looked really good in some sections, not so hot in others.

I notice a similar trend with DVD's.. On Chronicles of Riddick, the black level and frankly the rest of the picture ALWAYS look spectacular. Then, there are other DVD's where the image just looks OK. Same XR5, same resolution, same DVD player..

It's fairly impossible to get correct blacks from different DVDs on any type of tv. I currently have a 60" RP3LCD and even after adjusting the brightness/contrast using the THX Optimizer it's really only good for that specific DVD. Other DVDs might look darker brighter using the same settings.

MarkDD: I seem to recall a post by someone who had 500 hours on his NEC. I believe that he reported that IR seemed to be much better at that point - a bit beyond where you are now. You might try searching this thread to see if you can find it. If so, there is hope for you. :)

Actually, my comment about running Discovery HD in 2:35 was for anyone who was still in the first 100 hours. Since you are obviously past that point, you might try running screen wiper.
Lisa...I am scheduled to receive my XR4 today, and wonder about that break-in period. I hope this isn't too naive a question, but when you say you ran Discovery HD for that first 100 hours - did you literally do that? Left it running all day/night long for 4 days? Isn't there a logo on that station that might leave an impression? Sorry for the seemingly silly questions, but it's going to be my first day with plasma! :D

Come to think of it, I know there is the new thread on settings/tweaks, but does anyone have any tips on that initial break-in process/procedures/tips for the NEC?

Lisa, if I have read correctly this is true for the 42's which seem to have a couple of features the 50's do not have. The 50 nec and panny may be a little closer in picture with the slight nod to the nec. Only reason I have not bought the nec is I am waiting on the Panny 58 60u. If it does come in at a msrp of $4,500, it will be to hard to pass up. :)

My main concern with the 60u series is whether they will have fixed the 720p resolution problem. I would look really close if I were you before buying.

Lisa...I am scheduled to receive my XR4 today, and wonder about that break-in period. I hope this isn't too naive a question, but when you say you ran Discovery HD for that first 100 hours - did you literally do that? Left it running all day/night long for 4 days? Isn't there a logo on that station that might leave an impression? Sorry for the seemingly silly questions, but it's going to be my first day with plasma! :D

Come to think of it, I know there is the new thread on settings/tweaks, but does anyone have any tips on that initial break-in process/procedures/tips for the NEC?


I never ran it unattended. I work from my home so I could check on it occasionally. I ran it 10 hours+/- each day on Discovery HD at 2:35. The Discovery HD logo is mostly transparent. Also, by expanding it that much, it took most of the logo offscreen. From memory, the logo is also not displayed during the entire program. By using 2:35, there was no chance that any black bars would show up during commercials, etc...

During the first 100 days, I also took great care never to have black bars. When I was watching an HD show, I immediately stretched the picture when I sensed that a commercial was going to come on or when FF through a show recorded on the dvr. I also never watched a dvd which would have any black bars at all during that time.

I also immediately turned the contrast and brightness down to less than 50% of the default (which is both listed in the manual in color and on the display in the settings in color) even if it was less than optimum for the picture quality. Figured that it was better to be safe for the first 100 hours.

Hi

Just order my NEC XR5 (shipping to NL coming from Germany)...let's wait and see...keep you posted....is my first plasma

Lisa...I am scheduled to receive my XR4 today, and wonder about that break-in period. I hope this isn't too naive a question, but when you say you ran Discovery HD for that first 100 hours - did you literally do that? Left it running all day/night long for 4 days? Isn't there a logo on that station that might leave an impression? Sorry for the seemingly silly questions, but it's going to be my first day with plasma! :D

Come to think of it, I know there is the new thread on settings/tweaks, but does anyone have any tips on that initial break-in process/procedures/tips for the NEC?

Congratulation on your Panel... My NEC was my first too...

Just a couple more thoughts on Break-In (I am right @ 100hrs and will continue to be conservative for a while longer, probably a full additional 100 hours, conservative engineer can help it)

Something I did, I lowered my Contrast and Brightness ~25% below default but I also went to the Function -> PDP Saver Menu -> Peak Brightness and set it to 75%. That sets a Maximum of 75% brightness across all inputs and Picture memories. That probably ~ equals Lisa's setting of 50% of default.

Also I made a really low contrast/color setting for "Menu" use, like when play with STB menu or DVD menus etc, they tend to be really bright.

I too am very cautious and stretch/zoom/2.35:1 all content for first 100 hours.

I too work at home, I would be very cautious about running the Panel Unattended there is a bit of a Horror Story to that effect earlier in this thread. (Power Cycled, and panel sat on a STB menu screen for hours, it had a happy ending though, but very stressful for the owner)

I did use the break-in DVD to speed up the process, Because there was no menus etc I felt comfortable letting that run unattended for several hours at a time. People in that thread have run that overnight...they are a little braver than I. Although now that I have run it many times I could probably convince myself to do that.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6230381&&#post6230381

My first 100 hours probably consisted of ~50% Breakin-DVD and 50% regular content. I have had verrry little IR in fact if I didn't know to look for it I would never have seen it.

The FAQ / Settings thread is here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7360508#post7360508

...I am scheduled to receive my XR4 today, and wonder about that break-in period. I hope this isn't too naive a question, but when you say you ran Discovery HD for that first 100 hours - did you literally do that? Left it running all day/night long for 4 days? Isn't there a logo on that station that might leave an impression? Sorry for the seemingly silly questions, but it's going to be my first day with plasma! :D

Come to think of it, I know there is the new thread on settings/tweaks, but does anyone have any tips on that initial break-in process/procedures/tips for the NEC?

JKirkmd-

Just to add to what others have written re:break-in -- I have a 42xr4 with about 120 hours.

During the first 100 hours, I lowered the brightness & contrast below the halfway point. I also used "stadium" mode for any 4:3 content to fill up the screen. Most of the high-def channels (like discovery HD & MHD) move or morph their channel logos to prevent burn in. On any other channels that had stationary logos/tickers, or while using the onscreen guide, I just turned on the screen wiper.

I don't use a PC or video game system with my set, but using the above settings, I have never seen IR with my panel.

No worries - enjoy your set.

guys I have a couple of questions:

1- can i use a 25 ft extension power cord (from monoprice) with the 50XR5?

:)

2- what DVD player are you guys using? I need a not so expensive DVD that support 480i over HDMI so to have the NEC scaler do everything, as I understand is a great one!

..after reading this forum for 2 months. Ordered 50XR5A(sight unseen) from Chris at Cleveland Plasma with the NEC stand. Can't wait to lay my eyes on this tv.

Now to get all the other stuff(HD cable box, cables, TV stand, calibration dvd, etc etc)

Can't wait!! :D :D :D

...
2- what DVD player are you guys using? I need a not so expensive DVD that support 480i over HDMI so to have the NEC scaler do everything, as I understand is a great one!

See Below

...
2- what DVD player are you guys using? I need a not so expensive DVD that support 480i over HDMI so to have the NEC scaler do everything, as I understand is a great one!
Please excuse the double post... pilot error
Think you are going to have a hard time finding an inexpensive DVD player that has 480i over HDMI.

More to come on DVD players paired with a NEC 50XR5 Display ....
I am about to do a DVD Player Comparison (the best I can, I am no expert) of a Denon 1720 480i/480p over component (Non Faroudja) vs an Oppo (MediaTek, Faroudja) with DVI->HDMI 480p, 720p, 1080i. I will try to report the best I can on my findings.

I know that infocaplyse should be doing some testing/reviewing with a Denon 1920... so we shall see, maybe he will post his results...

wel, those players here:

Pioneer Elite 79avi
Pioneer Elite 59avi
Sony DVP-NS975V
Arcam DV79
Marantz DV9600
Classe CDP-300
SigmaTek XMB-510
LG LDA-511
NeuNeo HVD2085 (latest firmware as of 3-14-2006)

all support 480i over DVI or HDMI, but I'm wondering how well they work with the NEC. :) And some of those are too pricy for me at this point!

wel, those players here:

Pioneer Elite 79avi
Pioneer Elite 59avi
Sony DVP-NS975V
Arcam DV79
Marantz DV9600
Classe CDP-300
SigmaTek XMB-510
LG LDA-511
NeuNeo HVD2085 (latest firmware as of 3-14-2006)

all support 480i over DVI or HDMI, but I'm wondering how well they work with the NEC. :) And some of those are too pricy for me at this point!
I stand corrected (edited response above), most of those are beyond what I am willing to pay until HD-DVD with the exception of the LG LDA-511 which had some review issues I was not willing to deal with.

I stand corrected (edited response above), most of those are beyond what I am willing to pay until HD-DVD with the exception of the LG LDA-511 which had some review issues I was not willing to deal with.
-------------------------

For what its worth. I am using a Bose Lifestyle 48 over component with my XR5. 480p looks better than 480i. I've tried with a Denon DVD player (not sure the exact model), but again saw 480p being better than 480i over component. Many have reported 480i is better when scaled by the XR5, but not from the two sets I looked at. I now pass 480p to the NEC. Neither DVDs are in the inexpensive category....

I never ran it unattended. I work from my home so I could check on it occasionally. I ran it 10 hours+/- each day on Discovery HD at 2:35. The Discovery HD logo is mostly transparent. Also, by expanding it that much, it took most of the logo offscreen. From memory, the logo is also not displayed during the entire program. By using 2:35, there was no chance that any black bars would show up during commercials, etc...

During the first 100 days, I also took great care never to have black bars. When I was watching an HD show, I immediately stretched the picture when I sensed that a commercial was going to come on or when FF through a show recorded on the dvr. I also never watched a dvd which would have any black bars at all during that time.

My hats off to you Lisa, but I can't commit that kind of time for a break-in period. See, this is my problem. I've been giving serious thought to either a NEC plasma or the Panny 900 LCD projector, but most of the daily viewing my family does is going to be SD DirecTV stuff in the 4:3 ratio, so burn-in is a real concern. My wife will be doing a majority of the watching M-F, and she isn't technologically astute enough to be switching back and forth whenever a commercial is coming on. I can hear it now "We spent how much on this and I have to watch TV all jagged and zoomed in?"

That, and given the fact that I cannot be around to keep tabs on the set, at around 4 hours a night M-F, it'll take us until armageddon to properly break in any plasma or LCD projector.

As much as it burns me to say this(no pun intended), we may have to look at rear-projection sets.

What are the issues with the LG DVD?

And what about the power cord extension? :)