Well I just pulled the trigger on the OMD-5 as the prices are just too good to ignore. I bought two to replace the nanosat's in my system and i'm hoping it proves to be a significant upgrade. My wife may not like the larger size of the OMD-5's but hopefully she'll come around after she hears them. :o

Anybody share their upgrade experience from nano's to OMD-5? I'm excited, but not looking forward to break-in. Has anyone really busted up the drivers from not breaking them in properly?

Well I just pulled the trigger on the OMD-5 as the prices are just too good to ignore. I bought two to replace the nanosat's in my system and i'm hoping it proves to be a significant upgrade. My wife may not like the larger size of the OMD-5's but hopefully she'll come around after she hears them. :o

Anybody share their upgrade experience from nano's to OMD-5? I'm excited, but not looking forward to break-in. Has anyone really busted up the drivers from not breaking them in properly?Usually people's comments about "night and day" difference are over the top, but in this case it's true. Honestly, the Nanosat is pretty limited. The next level up, the Omnisat or OS3, is a decent speaker. The OMD5 is another level up, and a very nice speaker. The size is a big part of what makes that possible, plus the quality of the build. It's a big upgrade.

Break in is probably a myth. (At least for the speakers. Sounds like your wife might need some time ...) If you're concerned, don't turn the volume to 11 for a while. Otherwise, just enjoy the new speakers.

Cool I can't wait.

I've been using the nano's for surrounds and they have always kinda held back the system (epos 12.2 FR/FL, Servo15) but were a decent solution as I have less than ideal placement (& financial) options. They sit on a sofa table behind the couch and this was a far better option than direct radiators which I always felt sound sounded too localized. It will be interesting to see how much larger these are in person and I hope they don't look too out of place on that table.

Got a HK avr3600 (replacing AVR135) on the way as well so these will be my last upgrades for a while. ;) Should be a big upgrade!

Usually people's comments about "night and day" difference are over the top, but in this case it's true. Honestly, the Nanosat is pretty limited. The next level up, the Omnisat or OS3, is a decent speaker. The OMD5 is another level up, and a very nice speaker. The size is a big part of what makes that possible, plus the quality of the build. It's a big upgrade.

Break in is probably a myth. (At least for the speakers. Sounds like your wife might need some time ...) If you're concerned, don't turn the volume to 11 for a while. Otherwise, just enjoy the new speakers.

Although there are differences in opinion on the subject of break in, I would not ignore what Mirage states in their manual. They require the speakers to be broken in for at least 100 hours before they are played at full volume. I have just received a new pair of OMD-5s from Vanns last week. I listened to them for sometime at lower volume levels and then used the weekend to start the break in process. At only 50 hours there was a huge difference in sound. Just my 2 cents.:D

Secondly, these speakers put my massive Infinity Beta towers to shame. They cannot play the bass levels of course, but the mids and highs are awesome. These speakers sound so good that I moved my towers out and just have the OMD-5 speakers with a sub. Next I will order the OMD-C1. The OMD-15s should be in around the November time frame according to Vanns. I am praying that this holds true since I am converting over to these models.

Thirdly, these speakers like power. I have to turn them up a little loader than my older Infinity Beta towers and my Emotiva amp runs a little warmer with the 4 - 6 ohm load. Make sure you have a good amp to drive these if possible.

Cool I can't wait.

I've been using the nano's for surrounds and they have always kinda held back the system (epos 12.2 FR/FL, Servo15) but were a decent solution as I have less than ideal placement (& financial) options. They sit on a sofa table behind the couch and this was a far better option than direct radiators which I always felt sound sounded too localized. It will be interesting to see how much larger these are in person and I hope they don't look too out of place on that table.

Got a HK avr3600 (replacing AVR135) on the way as well so these will be my last upgrades for a while. ;) Should be a big upgrade!

HK have good amp sections and should be a good match for these speakers.

Although there are differences in opinion on the subject of break in, I would not ignore what Mirage states in their manual. They require the speakers to be broken in for at least 100 hours before they are played at full volume. I have just received a new pair of OMD-5s from Vanns last week. I listened to them for sometime at lower volume levels and then used the weekend to start the break in process. At only 50 hours there was a huge difference in sound. Just my 2 cents.:D

Secondly, these speakers put my massive Infinity Beta towers to shame. They cannot play the bass levels of course, but the mids and highs are awesome. These speakers sound so good that I moved my towers out and just have the OMD-5 speakers with a sub. Next I will order the OMD-C1. The OMD-15s should be in around the November time frame according to Vanns. I am praying that this holds true since I am converting over to these models.

Thirdly, these speakers like power. I have to turn them up a little loader than my older Infinity Beta towers and my Emotiva amp runs a little warmer with the 4 - 6 ohm load. Make sure you have a good amp to drive these if possible.

I'm surprised to hear that they are getting another shipment of these speakers. Considering these have been discontinued for some time, I wonder where this mysterious supply is coming from? When I ordered mine a few months ago, the Vann's rep said they bought all that Mirage has left. Guess that isn't true if they're getting more.

Anyhow, regarding break-in, I didn't follow any official procedure, but I did try not to play them TOO loud for several weeks. I must say that at first I was somewhat disappointed with how they sounded, but now that they have broken in they sound much better. I've never had speakers before that needed significant break-in, but it seems that these really do before sounding their best.

Well I just pulled the trigger on the OMD-5 as the prices are just too good to ignore. I bought two to replace the nanosat's in my system and i'm hoping it proves to be a significant upgrade. My wife may not like the larger size of the OMD-5's but hopefully she'll come around after she hears them. :o

Anybody share their upgrade experience from nano's to OMD-5? I'm excited, but not looking forward to break-in. Has anyone really busted up the drivers from not breaking them in properly?

Made that jump myself. I didn't realize what mid and bass I was missing with the nanosats. They did a great job with high end though, but there was a missing gap between that and the where the sub picked up.

The OMD5's are excellent! Love everything about them and with a good quality audio feed like blu-ray they are amazing! Now of course I'm curious what I'm missing with the OMD-15's. It's a never ending cycle. :D

Who's made that jump from omd-5 to omd-15? I have the C1 and it is absolutely perfect, except the OMD-5's sound 'smaller' now then they did when i was using the omd-5 as a center.

I'm surprised to hear that they are getting another shipment of these speakers. Considering these have been discontinued for some time, I wonder where this mysterious supply is coming from? When I ordered mine a few months ago, the Vann's rep said they bought all that Mirage has left. Guess that isn't true if they're getting more.

Anyhow, regarding break-in, I didn't follow any official procedure, but I did try not to play them TOO loud for several weeks. I must say that at first I was somewhat disappointed with how they sounded, but now that they have broken in they sound much better. I've never had speakers before that needed significant break-in, but it seems that these really do before sounding their best.

The break-in just makes since to my mind. Speakers are like electro-magnetic motors that move when electricity is applied. I am no expert, but it seems that the rubber surrounding the speaker takes time to gain the proper elasticity. I don't know how accurate this is, but it makes since to me.:rolleyes:

Now regarding the OMD-15s order from Vanns. I will contact them tomorrow to find out the scope. I contacted them before I started ordering any OMD speakers to make sure that they would be receiving this model again since it is listed as "On Order". They said at the time that they would be receiving more units in November. I will keep you guys posted. If someone from Vanns or who has more info, please feel free to chime in. If they do not get any more, I may have to step up to the still expensive OMD-28s. I want a tower speaker from this line to complete my set. I want to retire my sub again since I am in an apartment. I want a full range sound, but no booming bass.

The break-in just makes since to my mind. Speakers are like electro-magnetic motors that move when electricity is applied. I am no expert, but it seems that the rubber surrounding the speaker takes time to gain the proper elasticity. I don't know how accurate this is, but it makes since to me.:rolleyes:

Now regarding the OMD-15s order from Vanns. I will contact them tomorrow to find out the scope. I contacted them before I started ordering any OMD speakers to make sure that they would be receiving this model again since it is listed as "On Order". They said at the time that they would be receiving more units in November. I will keep you guys posted. If someone from Vanns or who has more info, please feel free to chime in. If they do not get any more, I may have to step up to the still expensive OMD-28s. I want a tower speaker from this line to complete my set. I want to retire my sub again since I am in an apartment. I want a full range sound, but no booming bass.

If Vann's is not getting any more look in the clearance section at Vann's. I have both the 15 and 28's and am very happy with them. Good luck.

John

There are a lot of other threads that cover break-in in detail, if anyone is really interested in it, it's covered much better than it ever will be here - so those would be worth a look.

But if Paul Scarpelli of Triad says break-in is not required, that's good enough for me.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17989193&highlight=break#post17989193

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17035647&highlight=break#post17035647

"I agree with the manufacturers who think playing five minutes of vigorous program material does 90% of the break-in. The temperature and humidity in a room make a bigger difference beyond that first five minutes, and it still isn't much."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16785426&highlight=break#post16785426

The main point is, things that will or won't damage your speakers when they are new, also will or won't damage the speakers when they are used. That's what you want to be aware of, and avoid - clipping, distortion, etc.

Also, all these discussion about fine points seem to make everyone lose track of the important issues.

Things that matter a lot:

- speakers
- placement in the room
- the room
- settings
- and a reasonably decent source and receiver or amp

Things that don't matter as much, and depend on lot on what you want out of a system and how you use it:

- amplification
- finer points of the source electronics

Things that don't matter

- cables
- break in

And of course to the non-system-obsessed, what really matters is what you're feeding in. Which is why for most people a Squeezebox or something is a much better place to spend money than any of those things.

There are a lot of other threads that cover break-in in detail, if anyone is really interested in it, it's covered much better than it ever will be here - so those would be worth a look.

But if Paul Scarpelli of Triad says break-in is not required, that's good enough for me.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17989193&highlight=break#post17989193

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17035647&highlight=break#post17035647

"I agree with the manufacturers who think playing five minutes of vigorous program material does 90% of the break-in. The temperature and humidity in a room make a bigger difference beyond that first five minutes, and it still isn't much."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16785426&highlight=break#post16785426

The main point is, things that will or won't damage your speakers when they are new, also will or won't damage the speakers when they are used. That's what you want to be aware of, and avoid - clipping, distortion, etc.

Also, all these discussion about fine points seem to make everyone lose track of the important issues.

Things that matter a lot:

- speakers
- placement in the room
- the room
- settings
- and a reasonably decent source and receiver or amp

Things that don't matter as much, and depend on lot on what you want out of a system and how you use it:

- amplification
- finer points of the source electronics

Things that don't matter

- cables
- break in

And of course to the non-system-obsessed, what really matters is what you're feeding in. Which is why for most people a Squeezebox or something is a much better place to spend money than any of those things.

I am not trying to argue for or against break in. I just want to follow what the manufacturer recommends listed in the users manual below:



BREAK-IN PROCEDURES
It is VITAL that your new OM Design speakers be allowed to break-in
properly before you perform any precise set up procedures, system
adjustments, and before you play them at higher volume levels.The best
method of performing the break-in is to play a full range musical passage at a
moderate level as long as possible. Utilizing the repeat function on your CD
or DVD player can assist greatly. Optimum sound will not be achieved until
approximately 100 hours of playing time.After break-in, the volume level can
be increased. Do not play the speakers at high levels until the break-in
process has been completed.The transducers need to “loosen up”, and until
this occurs, damage can result to the transducers.




I would hope that the maker performed some real testing to verify that their product requires break-in. I would assume that Mirage has performed such a test. I do know that every speaker that I have ever purchased sounds much better after a reasonable break in period.

Secondly, I have no desire to take sides in this dispute between audio engineers/ companies. Please remember that some of the people arguing these points engineer speakers for a living. They are saying different things and I would be foolish to jump into their dispute and take sides. I respect these people, but at the end of the day somebody is wrong partially or entirely. The risk out way the benefits in my case.

Now back to the subject at hand with OMD shipments. I have received the following response from Vanns:

Thanks for your inquiry as we look forward to the opportunity of earning your
business.

It's showing the date we have from Mirage as to when we'll have the OMD15's
back in stock would be the 25th of this month. They are discontinued, however,
we are still receiving shipments from the manufacturer. If you'd like, I can
sign you up to be notified via email when they come back in. Otherwise, you can
always check the site periodically for updated inventory availability.

If you have any other questions, feel free to email me back.

Respectfully,



Dustin Texley
Product Specialist
www.vanns.com
800-769-5668

I can't wait.:D

There are a lot of other threads that cover break-in in detail, if anyone is really interested in it, it's covered much better than it ever will be here - so those would be worth a look.

But if Paul Scarpelli of Triad says break-in is not required, that's good enough for me.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17989193&highlight=break#post17989193

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17035647&highlight=break#post17035647

"I agree with the manufacturers who think playing five minutes of vigorous program material does 90% of the break-in. The temperature and humidity in a room make a bigger difference beyond that first five minutes, and it still isn't much."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16785426&highlight=break#post16785426

The main point is, things that will or won't damage your speakers when they are new, also will or won't damage the speakers when they are used. That's what you want to be aware of, and avoid - clipping, distortion, etc.

Also, all these discussion about fine points seem to make everyone lose track of the important issues.

Things that matter a lot:

- speakers
- placement in the room
- the room
- settings
- and a reasonably decent source and receiver or amp

Things that don't matter as much, and depend on lot on what you want out of a system and how you use it:

- amplification
- finer points of the source electronics

Things that don't matter

- cables
- break in

And of course to the non-system-obsessed, what really matters is what you're feeding in. Which is why for most people a Squeezebox or something is a much better place to spend money than any of those things.

Good post.

Mr. Scarpelli is a sharp guy. :)

Thanks, WTF. I get lost in the woods a lot here myself. It's fun sometimes, but not the way to decide where to spend time or money.

NETPCTECH, no one has ever been able to explain how playing a new speaker loud might damage it.

Also, the break in idea works great for Mirage, because it gets people to keep the speakers long enough to appreciate them.

If Mirage really wanted to help buyers, though, they'd give them better advice about placement. What they give is fine for certain users, maybe mass-market, new users, and to some degree you can put them anywhere. But it's not really going to give the best sound, and leads to some of the problems people have with too many reflections, experiencing the speakers as too bright, etc.

So I can't say I have too much confidence in the Mirage manuals. But I like the speakers a lot!

Thanks, WTF. I get lost in the woods a lot here myself. It's fun sometimes, but not the way to decide where to spend time or money.

NETPCTECH, no one has ever been able to explain how playing a new speaker loud might damage it.

Also, the break in idea works great for Mirage, because it gets people to keep the speakers long enough to appreciate them.

If Mirage really wanted to help buyers, though, they'd give them better advice about placement. What they give is fine for certain users, maybe mass-market, new users, and to some degree you can put them anywhere. But it's not really going to give the best sound, and leads to some of the problems people have with too many reflections, experiencing the speakers as too bright, etc.

So I can't say I have too much confidence in the Mirage manuals. But I like the speakers a lot!

Agreed. Speaker break-in is suspect at best. I need hard lab data to show the differences before I will totally understand it. Its easy for vendors and experts to give opinions or recommendations, but without controlled testing it is hard to get at the facts over fiction. I will continue to follow the manufacturers data because I have heard improvements. This is what matters after all is can you hear the difference.

Speaker placement for me has been much less of a problem with the Mirage. I have owned several speakers in the past that I have to spend days moving around to get the best sound. I just find it easier worrying about proper distances from walls than dealing with all the tow in and corner placement issues with other speakers.Since the sound is dispersed so wide, I have a much easier time with finding the sweet spot. Again, these are only my opinions. I would probably be saying something different if I had a room with hard surfaces all around.:)

Usually people's comments about "night and day" difference are over the top, but in this case it's true. Honestly, the Nanosat is pretty limited. The next level up, the Omnisat or OS3, is a decent speaker. The OMD5 is another level up, and a very nice speaker. The size is a big part of what makes that possible, plus the quality of the build. It's a big upgrade.

Break in is probably a myth. (At least for the speakers. Sounds like your wife might need some time ...) If you're concerned, don't turn the volume to 11 for a while. Otherwise, just enjoy the new speakers.

I actually went from OS3's to OMD-5's, and even that was a night and day difference IMO. Granted, I suspect the long pole in that difference was going from using an OS3 as a center to using the OMD-C1.

Regardless, as you said the size makes a huge difference. While they certainly aren't hitting low, they hit low enough that you can get a nice blend with a sub at around 80Hz. Using the the OC3's, you had to chose between localization of bass from your sub (assuming it can even hit high enough), or a black hole from 80-120Hz or so. I suspect the difference from Nano's will be even more dramatic.

I just purchased the OMD 15, OMD 5, OMDR, OMDC1, and Sub combo pack. I had Vanns ship all the speakers except the OMD15's until they arrive. At least I can use the OMD 5's as fronts until my towers arrive, then they will be moved to height channels. I really hope the OMDR's were worth the extra money.

I dont see that package on the Vanns website. When did you buy and how much? Maybe i'll call them.

Its on vanns website. you should be able to search for Mirage. Then look at the bottom left corner, It should say "buy mirage and save 60%" or whatever. The other way is to add a speaker to your cart, then click "bundle" if its a bundle option. I bought the OMD15 bundle pack and the OMDR bundle pack. I figured that way I can use the OMD 5 for height and the OMDR for dedicated rears. I dont really need the sub since I have my B&W ASW855 but im trying to sell that. I have to wait a few weeks for the OMD15's. They said the OMD28's were in stock. I asked Vanns if they would drop another $200.00 for the inconvenience which they quickly declined. Oh well, at least I tried. I really hope these are great speakers. I didnt care for the OS line at Bestest Buy. Not enough bass or mids for my tastes. I really enjoyed my real Mirage MS3si. But those were huge caskets. Not sure if its worth the extra money to buy the larger towers. Twice the price but is it twice the sound? after all I am using a sub for most my bass.

My experience purchasing Mirage speakers from Vanns.com (very positive):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19340588#post19340588

I have a couple of setup issues. I'm powering with an Onkyo TX-SR508. It has Audyssey 2EQ. I know now that the tool does not offer EQ calibration of subwoofers. I have two Prestige S10s in the system. I attempted to use the Audyssey setup to level match the subwoofers by running the tests separately with each subwoofer and then doing the final calibration with both subwoofers on.

The result had the crossover with the surrounds set at 150Hz. The Prestige S10 has spec max frequency response at 120Hz +/- 3db which suggests that I might have a gap if I retain the Audyssey settings.

The other issue is that with the Audyssey settings, bass output seems too low in volume. I can run the test tones and the subwoofer channel is barely audible. Again, I know that the basic 2EQ setup does not provide EQ filtering for subwoofers, but I figured that it would at least match levels with the surrounds.

By the way I don't have a meter. Didn't really want to get one for something I was going to check once, but maybe it's worth the investment.

My center is an OMDC1 and fronts and surrounds are all OMD5s. The L and R fronts are in a bookshelf where I removed the shelves above the speaker to give as much space as possible. These are where they are going to have to stay. I thought I would try again with the L and R fronts placed closer to a sidewall of the bookcase or a little further to the back of the bookcase in order to increase bass response of the OMD5s and lower the crossover to the sub.

Any thoughts?

Well I just connected my Prestige S10 sub. The pretty blue light on the front turns on but NO sound from the woofer.. It D.O.A. which is hard to believe. I used the same RCA and Power cord from my other sub which works fine. Not sure what else it could be except a bad internal connection. ARGHHH. I thought they tested these things before they left. But then again the UPS guy litereally kicked it out of the door onto the road when he was delivering it. At least Vann's double boxed it.

I had a similar experience where I hooked up a Prestige S10 and was wondering where the sound was. It was using a new AVR, and I was wondering if something was wrong with the subwoofer preout. I turned the gain to max, and was playing music through and over the course of fifteen or twenty minutes some bass response started developing. By the next day I had bass that would rattle the windows. I'm no expert on these things, but at least in my case there may be something to speaker break-in.

That said, I did receive a damaged subwoofer initially that I had to return.

If there is no apparent physical damage, maybe just allow it to run overnight before requesting the RMA just to make sure the unit truly is dead.

Since my OMD 15's are still on back order I was considering upgrading to the OMD28 but are they really worth the xtra cost? $1,000 for OMD15 and $2600 for OMD28. I would also upgrade my center C1 to a C2 to match which is also an upgraded cost. just wondering if anyone owns the 28's and there thoughts. It's not always worth the extra money to get better sound. I have heard the B&W 802 $14,000 A/B to the 800D $22000 and I couldnt justify the cost difference, Same with the Wilsons. Sometimes you hit a point where the extra money just cant jusify the extra cost. If the sound quality doubles, maybe but if its only slightly better. Just not worth it.

My neighbor just ordered the Mirage OMD 15 package and its still backordered....

Just in case you missed it - this has been asked at least a couple times. You might get some info by looking back in the thread.Sometimes you hit a point where the extra money just cant jusify the extra cost. If the sound quality doubles, maybe but if its only slightly better. Just not worth it.Well, it's never either of those things, which is what makes it hard. You stop being able to get double the sound quality for double the cost once you go past $25 or so.

Also, it depends on whether you're talking sound quality, or enjoyment. In terms of overall enjoyment - there may be places you could spend that money that would create more enjoyment. (No, not Scotch.) A Squeezebox, or a Blu Ray player, or something.

But it's different for everybody. For somebody who really values what the 28's have to offer, and has the room and time to enjoy it - of course, they are a great value, as all the OMD stuff is at these prices.

Since my OMD 15's are still on back order I was considering upgrading to the OMD28 but are they really worth the xtra cost? $1,000 for OMD15 and $2600 for OMD28. I would also upgrade my center C1 to a C2 to match which is also an upgraded cost. just wondering if anyone owns the 28's and there thoughts. It's not always worth the extra money to get better sound. I have heard the B&W 802 $14,000 A/B to the 800D $22000 and I couldnt justify the cost difference, Same with the Wilsons. Sometimes you hit a point where the extra money just cant jusify the extra cost. If the sound quality doubles, maybe but if its only slightly better. Just not worth it.

My neighbor just ordered the Mirage OMD 15 package and its still backordered....

I agree that you will not get twice the sound improvement, but you are missing some key components when considering this speaker.

Firstly, some people require larger higher quality speakers in order to generate adequate sound pressure for larger spaces. These would probably be overkill in my small living room, but someone with a large dedicated home theater need the extra power handling and volume levels that this speaker can produce. You can look back through this thread for comments by some of the owners.

Secondly, what one considers expensive usually is determined by ones income. The equipment I buy now, I could not afford when I was younger and I viewed it as expensive.

Just my two cents.:)

My experience purchasing Mirage speakers from Vanns.com (very positive):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19340588#post19340588

I have a couple of setup issues. I'm powering with an Onkyo TX-SR508. It has Audyssey 2EQ. I know now that the tool does not offer EQ calibration of subwoofers. I have two Prestige S10s in the system. I attempted to use the Audyssey setup to level match the subwoofers by running the tests separately with each subwoofer and then doing the final calibration with both subwoofers on.

The result had the crossover with the surrounds set at 150Hz. The Prestige S10 has spec max frequency response at 120Hz +/- 3db which suggests that I might have a gap if I retain the Audyssey settings.

The other issue is that with the Audyssey settings, bass output seems too low in volume. I can run the test tones and the subwoofer channel is barely audible. Again, I know that the basic 2EQ setup does not provide EQ filtering for subwoofers, but I figured that it would at least match levels with the surrounds.

By the way I don't have a meter. Didn't really want to get one for something I was going to check once, but maybe it's worth the investment.

My center is an OMDC1 and fronts and surrounds are all OMD5s. The L and R fronts are in a bookshelf where I removed the shelves above the speaker to give as much space as possible. These are where they are going to have to stay. I thought I would try again with the L and R fronts placed closer to a sidewall of the bookcase or a little further to the back of the bookcase in order to increase bass response of the OMD5s and lower the crossover to the sub.

Any thoughts?

This weekend I took another crack at placement and re-calibration.

I put on The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King in DTS-ES 6.1 and trimmed the fronts and surrounds to min levels and subwoofer channel to max level. I selected the track where the Olephants attack and did the sub crawl for each subwoofer. Then I put on some Beastie Boys tracks. My low bass issue had definitely more to do with the source. I primarily watch cable TV and was making my evaluation on the basis of programming I normally watch. Put on a source with a meaty LFE track then there is plenty of bass! The room is not a dedicated space; it's a living/work area where I already have three computer workstations. Placement options are very limited. I wound up not really changing up my previous placement. It was a game of inches. I pulled one speaker a few inches toward the center of the short wall as there was a table leg in front of the driver. I pushed it an inch or two closer to the wall. The other subwoofer I pulled a couple of inches away from a corner formed by the wall and a book shelf.

I used Audessey 2EQ to confirm that the two subs were level matched. I ran the auto setup separately for each subwoofer. Each had a trim level of 0 db. Before final calibration I moved the fronts to the outside sidewalls of the bookshelves and then halfway to the back wall. I toed each speaker in so that they were directed to the main LP. Final calibration from the autosetup with both subwoofers powered up had the crossover set to 100Hz and subwoofer trim at -4db. In theory, I guess this is what I am looking for, to have the fronts and surrounds handling more of the mid-bass and not routing to the subwoofer. Having the trim at -4db at least puts me on the good side if I need room to boost the bass further. I confirmed relative levels by attaching the Audyssey mic to my PC and running the signal through a Windows-based peak level meter that I found online. I compared the center and subwoofer levels by running the AVR test tones with the mic at the main LP. Subwoofer level appeared to be in the same ball park as the center level.

I watched Roy Orbison: A Black and White Night BD and Quantum of Solice BD, and I have to say my untrained ears were pretty satisfied especially if I use decent volume. I probably watch TV at relatively low volume which doesn't help bring out the bass response. I went into the AVR advanced settings and set the reference level adjustment for the cable input to +10db. In theory, that should help. I think this is the best I can do without getting a calibrated meter and spending a few weeks tweaking. In the end, I'd prefer to be a setup and forget it kind of guy, so that I can sit down and enjoy what I have. For jollies, I'll still buy a mic for our iPod Touch and get an SPL app and see how the room responds. Seems like a cheap way to satisfy my curiosity.

If I find our camera I will post pictures of the set-up once I hide my wires.

I hope others find my experience helpful for them.

Hey all! I've been quite happy with my Mirage speakers - but I'm always considering an upgrade :p. Guess that's just how this hobby works.


My current setup includes OMD 5 fronts, an OMD C1 center, and OS3 sat surrounds. What I'm looking for is a little fuller response for the surrounds, as well as potentially adding rear(s) to expand the soundfield. I'm hoping someone could give me some insights/recommendations regarding what they think would give me the best sound.

It should be noted that I like a wide, enveloping soundfield (which is why I was originally drawn to Mirage) ... so I'm willing to trade imaging accuracy for envelopment. The options I'm considering are as follows.

Surrounds:

pair of OMD 5's
pair of OMD R's


Rear:

single OS3 sat
pair of OS3 sats
single OMD 5
single OMD C1



Any impressions?

Ordered a pair of maple OMD-5's. Couldn't help myself.

FYI. Vann has the OMD-15 speaker back in stock. Time to start saving.:)

I'm confused, where are they getting new product? I was under the assumption Vann's was closing out the stock.

Is Mirage making more of these?





(PS. Can anyone comment on my post above regarding surround/rears? :p)

i'm confused, where are they getting new product? I was under the assumption vann's was closing out the stock.

Is mirage making more of these?

x2

It is my understanding that Vanns is now the sole distributor of the OMD series. I believe they are making limited quantities even though they have been discontinued for some time. Since they are owned by Klipsch, they have the manufacturing capacity to do this. All I can say is keep them coming.:)

Hey all! I've been quite happy with my Mirage speakers - but I'm always considering an upgrade :p. Guess that's just how this hobby works.


My current setup includes OMD 5 fronts, an OMD C1 center, and OS3 sat surrounds. What I'm looking for is a little fuller response for the surrounds, as well as potentially adding rear(s) to expand the soundfield. I'm hoping someone could give me some insights/recommendations regarding what they think would give me the best sound.

It should be noted that I like a wide, enveloping soundfield (which is why I was originally drawn to Mirage) ... so I'm willing to trade imaging accuracy for envelopment. The options I'm considering are as follows.

Surrounds:

pair of OMD 5's
pair of OMD R's


Rear:

single OS3 sat
pair of OS3 sats
single OMD 5
single OMD C1



Any impressions?

I am confused about your post. Are you saying you will be using OMD C1s for the rear?

I am confused about your post. Are you saying you will be using OMD C1s for the rear?

The bulleted listings are options I'm considering for each position - one listing for surrounds, one listing for rears.


As for the OMD C1, yes I would consider it for a rear. People have been using a center as a single rear since the dawn of DD-EX and DTS-ES. That said, if posters in this thread think it's a terrible idea I'll certainly take that under advisement. I was really just throwing it out there as a possibility to be exhaustive.


So ... any recommendations? :p

The bulleted listings are options I'm considering for each position - one listing for surrounds, one listing for rears.


As for the OMD C1, yes I would consider it for a rear. People have been using a center as a single rear since the dawn of DD-EX and DTS-ES. That said, if posters in this thread think it's a terrible idea I'll certainly take that under advisement. I was really just throwing it out there as a possibility to be exhaustive.


So ... any recommendations? :p

Understood. I would go with all OMD-R for surrounds. If you want to save money, you first option (OMD-5 & OMD-R) is good also.

I am going 5.1 myself 2xOMD-15 , OMD-C1 and 2xOMD-5s for the rear. The diffused sound of the mirage speaker and limited space is my reason.

I'm confused, where are they getting new product? I was under the assumption Vann's was closing out the stock.

Is Mirage making more of these?

(PS. Can anyone comment on my post above regarding surround/rears? :p)

It's an exclusive build for Vann's, who is the sole distributor of the "discontinued" OMD line.

The bulleted listings are options I'm considering for each position - one listing for surrounds, one listing for rears.


As for the OMD C1, yes I would consider it for a rear. People have been using a center as a single rear since the dawn of DD-EX and DTS-ES. That said, if posters in this thread think it's a terrible idea I'll certainly take that under advisement. I was really just throwing it out there as a possibility to be exhaustive.


So ... any recommendations? :p

My personal opinion is to go with the OMD-5s all around in a 7.1 set-up, if that's what you are asking. Although, crowding 2 additional speakers in a small room or very close to the listening area is not preferred to a well-placed 5.x system -- in my opinion. If you have the room and can sufficiently place the Mirage speakers, then go for it.

Do a little research on the effects of placing a single center channel in a 6.x set-up. There are several problems that this would introduce that would prevent me from considering it.

So there doesn't seem to be much love for the OMD-R's versus the 5's?




It's an exclusive build for Vann's, who is the sole distributor of the "discontinued" OMD line.


Interesting. So that means they are actually making more? I was always curious how the walnut looked in person.

So there doesn't seem to be much love for the OMD-R's versus the 5's?

Interesting. So that means they are actually making more? I was always curious how the walnut looked in person.

I have the OMD-Rs as well as the 5s. The R is a big speaker in comparison and needs plenty of room to operate properly, in my opinion. Placement can also be challenging. That being said, the OMD-R is a cool speaker and certainly would be a nice addition to most set-ups.

I don't recall ever seeing a walnut OMD. Gloss Black, Rosenut, and the Burled Maple are the only finishes that I am familiar with.

Raistlin, as WTF suggests, room size and layout are key considerations for going over 5 speakers and for using the OMDRs. You might want to describe the room.

There's a fair amount of discussion of the OMDRs earlier in the thread. It isn't that there's no love. What's not to love?! ;-) They just don't work in all rooms, and even when they do there's the question of whether you're going to get enough extra performance to justify the price, given that it's mostly us cheapskates here these days.

And especially when (IMO) the 4th and 5th speakers in a system aren't that critical, and the 6th and 7th are unnecessary. People won't agree entirely with that, but there's certainly something to be said for focusing your resources on other stuff.

The OS3s do leave a little to be desired, with its midbass limitations the tone and authority aren't what they might be. It's tough to say whether most people would benefit from an upgrade to OMD5s or more, but given what you described, you might be one of them.

FWIW, My neighbor a small living room, NOT a true home theater room and we tried both the OMD 5 and OMDR, and much prefer the OMDR spatial presentation and sound. I will certainly buy these for rears before they stop producing them. The price isnt that far away from OMD 5. Would be the same choice between the OS3 vs OMD 5, the OMD 5 costs more but its performance is justified. Just my opinion.

...The price isnt that far away from OMD 5.

Isn't the OMD-R almost double the price?

FWIW, My neighbor a small living room, NOT a true home theater room and we tried both the OMD 5 and OMDR, and much prefer the OMDR spatial presentation and sound. I will certainly buy these for rears before they stop producing them. The price isnt that far away from OMD 5. Would be the same choice between the OS3 vs OMD 5, the OMD 5 costs more but its performance is justified. Just my opinion.

This is to be expected since the OMD-R drivers are based on the OMD-28 (top speaker), which makes them a small step up from the OMD-5's. According to some of the photos I have seen from Mirage, they appear to have intended for the OMD-R's to match the OMD-28's. The OMD-5's match the OMD-15. I already have the OMD-5's and will be getting the OMD-15's for the fronts. Also, this same difference exists between the OMD-C1 and OMD-C2.

Isn't the OMD-R almost double the price?

Correct because it has double the drivers which are made of Carbon Fiber.:)

Isn't the OMD-R almost double the price?

Correct because it has double the drivers which are made of Carbon Fiber.:)

This was sort of a rhetorical question. Thanks for the confirmation though. :)

Thanks for all the advice so far. I'm on a business trip right now, but will post a diagram for my layout(s) on the weekend. Hopefully that will add some clarity to the situation.

It should be noted that this is a living room setup ... and is not a room I'd expect miracles given the difficult layout. I have a dedicated theater slowly developing in my man-cave for critical use. This is my everyday, TV watching sort of theater.

I went with Mirage because in my testing they play rather nicely in a difficult room while yielding a wide, enveloping sound stage. That's quite the feat given their pricepoint and relatively small size. For a secondary theater it's one of the better values I've come across.







I don't recall ever seeing a walnut OMD. Gloss Black, Rosenut, and the Burled Maple are the only finishes that I am familiar with.

Sorry - brain freeze. I meant the maple. :o

I am considering omd-15's for home theater use.

I know they are difuse but does that ruin the soundstage and imaging?

Can they get loud and dynamic??

Can they work without a center channel?

I am considering omd-15's for home theater use.

I know they are difuse but does that ruin the soundstage and imaging?

Quite the contrary. Although, this really depends on placement and the room in my opinion. Some may consider that the Omnipolar design "color" the sound a little.

Can they get loud and dynamic??

They are not as efficient as JTR's offerings. So, this might be too subjective to answer with any certainty.


Can they work without a center channel?

Very well.

Hope this helps.

This is so damn frustrating!

Cant sell my speakers and cant find replacements

goon,

Why don't you like your JTR's?



As for the questions:

1) I don't really use mine in a 'serious' theater, so it would be difficult for me to gauge imaging. Sound stage however is pretty huge for their size. That's kind of what they're known for.

2) Dynamics certainly are not going to be what you're used to with the JTR's. They are a fairly heavy load, though not much worse than plenty of 'audiophile' speakers. I wouldn't consider them deficient versus the competition.

3) I've been extremely happy with the OMD C1 actually. It's a fantastic center for the price IMO. I haven't had the chance to hear a C2, but I've read it is pretty impressive.

I love the JTR's I just cant afford to have this much money wraped up in speakers.

What do you mean by "heavy load"? They are speced out pretty sensitive. is that a lie?

Who has both OMD-5's and OMD-15's?

I am considering moving the omd-5's to the rear position and picking up OMD-15's to match my C1 center.

Just wondering what difference I'll notice. I'm not by any means unsatified with the OMD-5s as L&R, but the OMD-15s price is just calling me.

Who has both OMD-5's and OMD-15's?

I am considering moving the omd-5's to the rear position and picking up OMD-15's to match my C1 center.

Just wondering what difference I'll notice. I'm not by any means unsatified with the OMD-5s as L&R, but the OMD-15s price is just calling me.

I have 5's and 15's. In a 7.1 setup. Love all of them. Get the 15's. You not regret it.

I love the JTR's I just cant afford to have this much money wraped up in speakers.


Sorry to hear that. The price you're offering is pretty impressive. I just don't think I could fit them though.


What do you mean by "heavy load"? They are speced out pretty sensitive. is that a lie?

Well, heavy load relative to JTR's. That said, I really don't consider 90dB, 6ohm nominal, 4ohm min as being 'pretty sensitive'. I had a slimline Marantz receiver and it kept shutting down the amp :o (though that may have been when I was running all OS3 sats, which are 89dB)

My Marantz 5004 has no issue with them however.






I have 5's and 15's. In a 7.1 setup. Love all of them. Get the 15's. You not regret it.

I think the pertinent question is would someone note an appreciable difference moving to the 15's in a mainly HT setting? Assume an 80Hz crossover.

Does anyone know how often Vanns receives / keeps stock of the OMD line?

As much as I love my Nanos, I recently caught the upgrade bug. I'm a bit hesitant to drop a grand on a pair of the 15's but at least they're currently in stock. If I know they'll still be offered a few months down the line (and maybe reduced?), I might go with two 5's to use as my fronts and just save for the 15's later. Are OMD-5's fairly easy to come by.. and just hit-or-miss with the 15's availability?

Just a quick question-- I'm shopping for some surround speakers for my living room. Have a chance to snag a pair of Mirage Omni 350s on CL for $200. My other options for fronts are the new Pioneers at BBuy ($200 for the pair) or the Polk M60s/M70s for whatever Newegg has them for ($230/$340 routinely I think). If I grab the Omnis, can someone suggest a good center speaker?

I haven't bought anything else yet, grabbed a pair of Pioneer BS-41s for the rears, but am content to throw those in my office if they don't match up well with the other components. Not looking to spend a ton, this is my first setup.

My LR is pretty small, and I'm on the fence about adding a sub to the system. Will be used about equally for gaming/movies/music.

TIA

edit: removed double post!

Does anyone know how often Vanns receives / keeps stock of the OMD line?

As much as I love my Nanos, I recently caught the upgrade bug. I'm a bit hesitant to drop a grand on a pair of the 15's but at least they're currently in stock. If I know they'll still be offered a few months down the line (and maybe reduced?), I might go with two 5's to use as my fronts and just save for the 15's later. Are OMD-5's fairly easy to come by.. and just hit-or-miss with the 15's availability?

I just upgraded from nanos as surrounds to the 5's and they are a far superior speaker. With a decent sub these could easily power a decent size room in a 5.1system. Not in the same league as the nanos don't approach anything natural sounding below 120hz.

For the price I would go 5's all around with the best sub I could afford. Of course, just my $.02

Man....I'm like some of you guys! I have the Nano Prestige set with the S8 sub. Sounds really good but now since Vanns has all these specials, I have gotten the upgrade bug. I would probably be happy with the OMD 5's for freont and rear surround and the OMD-C1 for center, but those OMD 15's look mighty well priced right now! Then the 28's look to be the ultimate speaker I would want to buy and pair with the OMD-C2. I'm waiting on Blackfriday specials, but I hope Vanns doesnt run out of these!!!

Just a quick question-- I'm shopping for some surround speakers for my living room. Have a chance to snag a pair of Mirage Omni 350s on CL for $200. My other options for fronts are the new Pioneers at BBuy ($200 for the pair) or the Polk M60s/M70s for whatever Newegg has them for ($230/$340 routinely I think). If I grab the Omnis, can someone suggest a good center speaker?

I haven't bought anything else yet, grabbed a pair of Pioneer BS-41s for the rears, but am content to throw those in my office if they don't match up well with the other components. Not looking to spend a ton, this is my first setup.

My LR is pretty small, and I'm on the fence about adding a sub to the system. Will be used about equally for gaming/movies/music.

TIA

I say go to Vanns.com and look at the Mirage Bundles. They are having killer sales.

I say go to Vanns.com and look at the Mirage Bundles. They are having killer sales.

The draw of the 350s, without having heard them, is that they're better-rated speakers than the others in my price range b/c they're available for cheap on CL. He has 2 sets available at $200/ea, so basically $100/speaker.
Going over to listen to them this weekend before I buy so I can compare to the Pios and Polks.

FWIW the center Mirage originally sold with the 350s is the C150 (link to Vanns) (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548250588). They also sold more or less the same speaker as the Athena LSC100. I think there was an Energy model too. There's probably some discussion somewhere about it. They are all owned by the same parent company. If you can find any of those on Audiogon or eBay, that's an option. Don't pay more than about $100, though.

Or maybe an old Mirage OM-C3, they turn up from time to time.

FWIW the center Mirage originally sold with the 350s is the C150 (link to Vanns) (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548250588). They also sold more or less the same speaker as the Athena LSC100. I think there was an Energy model too. There's probably some discussion somewhere about it. They are all owned by the same parent company. If you can find any of those on Audiogon or eBay, that's an option. Don't pay more than about $100, though.

Or maybe an old Mirage OM-C3, they turn up from time to time.

Thanks. I'm hoping he has a center to go with the pair of floor speakers. My room is fairly small, 12x18 maybe, so I was hoping to get away without a sub for the first few months.

EDIT: Just found out he has the Omni C150 center for $75. So basically $275 for the (used) front speakers and center channel-- is that a good price for this gear?
Is the Mirage OMD15 the new version of the 350?

If anyone is looking for a small yet decently powerful sub to go with their smaller Mirage OMD's, I'm using an ED A3S-250. It blends perfectly and has a surprising amount of depth and impact for its size.

Granted at the same price ($350) you can get the ED A2-250 which goes lower, but obviously gives up some aesthetics in the process. Depending on your needs and space limitations, I think one of those two have incredible band-for-the-buck.

I paired a set of OMD-5's with a Velodyne Microvee and am super duper pleased. Great compact system.

I need to get a pair of surround speakers for my set up in my living room. Because of the location that these speakers will be placed in, the Omnipolar Mirage Bookshelf speakers appear to be a good choice. I'm looking for advice on whether I should get the OS3-Sat or the OMD-5 (either one in theory will work for me). I've read several pages in this thread and it appears that the OMD-5 gets good reviews. But I just wanted to pose the question about the comparison between the OS3-Sat and the OMD-5 before I pull the plug. Your suggestions will be very helpful to me. Thanks.

Cal68

The OMD-5's have a larger woofer, therefore they have a larger cabinet, weigh more and are generally easier to integrate with a subwoofer. If size is an issue then the smaller OS3's are the ticket for your surrounds.

Cal68,

If size is not an issue, I'd go with the OMD 5 since it can hit close enough to 80Hz to get a good blend with a sub at the traditional THX recommended crossover.

The OS3 sat will leave a whole from 80-100Hz or so. If you run a sub that high it won't be an issue. It comes down to your set up and your needs.



I'm actually in the process of deciding whether to make this very same upgrade. If I decide to go through with it and you feel the OS3's would fit your requirements, feel free to PM me if you want a used pair :p

The OMD-5's have a larger woofer, therefore they have a larger cabinet, weigh more and are generally easier to integrate with a subwoofer. If size is an issue then the smaller OS3's are the ticket for your surrounds.

Cal68,

If size is not an issue, I'd go with the OMD 5 since it can hit close enough to 80Hz to get a good blend with a sub at the traditional THX recommended crossover.

The OS3 sat will leave a whole from 80-100Hz or so. If you run a sub that high it won't be an issue. It comes down to your set up and your needs.



I'm actually in the process of deciding whether to make this very same upgrade. If I decide to go through with it and you feel the OS3's would fit your requirements, feel free to PM me if you want a used pair :p

Thanks shodulik and Raistline_HT. Size is not a big issue for me since it appears that the difference between the OS3 and OMD5 is about an inch in each dimension. I think that I will order the OMD5 from Vann's tonight. Thanks for your input and help. I will let you know how they integrate into my system after I get them.

Cal68

EDIT: Just found out he has the Omni C150 center for $75. So basically $275 for the (used) front speakers and center channel-- is that a good price for this gear?Yes, if they work well and are what you want.Is the Mirage OMD15 the new version of the 350?Not really. The OMD15 is the same general idea (floor standing, omnipolar) but it's a couple levels up in quality and list price from that Omni series. OMD is/was the Mirage flagship line. That Omni series was more of an entry level line.

Yes, if they work well and are what you want.Not really. The OMD15 is the same general idea (floor standing, omnipolar) but it's a couple levels up in quality and list price from that Omni series. OMD is/was the Mirage flagship line. That Omni series was more of an entry level line.

Thanks. Hoping I like the sound. If not I'll snag Polks or Pioneers for not much more.

since we are talking mirage I thought I would ask this here.

I already have a 5.1 set up the room is large about 4000 sq feet. The fronts are mirage m3 si center is mirage si and rears are mirgae mbs mirage subs as well. Driving it is a onkyo nr5008 I want to add the wide surrounds and I wonder if they would be a good fit. The max out at 100 watts and the nr puts out more then that but I am thinking the wides are probably more ambient sound so it is more atmosphere then loudness. I am concerned about the timber matching and think staying within the same brand might minimize it. The reviews are for stand alone and do not touch on this application of it.

Right now I'm running Energy RC-50's for fronts, Energy RCR's for Surrounds, and a Mirage OMD-C1 for my center. I don't have the wall space/room configuration to correctly mount surround backs and surrounds so I am looking to add front height speakers.

My question is would I see much benefit by going with the OMD5's over the OS3's when they're being used as front heights? From what I know it's mostly atmospheric type stuff coming from the heights anyways so I wasn't sure if it would be worth the extra cash to go with the OMD5's

...My question is would I see much benefit by going with the OMD5's over the OS3's when they're being used as front heights? From what I know it's mostly atmospheric type stuff coming from the heights anyways so I wasn't sure if it would be worth the extra cash to go with the OMD5's

The OMD-5 is less expensive than the OS3.

And much better. If you can tolerate the larger size and weight of the OMD5s, I'm guessing that given the high performance level of the other speakers you own, you'd appreciate the OMD5s.

Awesome...for some reason I assumed the OS3's were less due to the smaller size/driver.

$179 a piece for the OMD5's is a great price anyway, and I do not mind the larger size at all. It's the WAF of adding front heights. I need to move so I can have my man theatre where she can't give me a hard time about speaker size and placement.

If Vann's shipped to Canada I'd be in heaven.

Hi - I need to decide on a center channel speaker not as tall as OMD-C1. I just purchased OMD-5's for fronts (thanks to you all and Vann's) and might move them to surrounds to get OMD-15's for fronts. The OMD-C1 is too tall (at almost 8") to sit in front of our flat-panel display (wall mount or other locations aren't an option for us). Height limit for center speaker is 5". I've owned the OS3-cc and felt it had weak dialogue. Anyone have an educated suggestion as to what other speaker might mesh timbre close enough to not create a problem. By the way, our new AVR has Audyssey MultiEQ; perhaps that might mitigate a 'matching timbre' issue. Thanks for your help with this.

Hi - I need to decide on a center channel speaker not as tall as OMD-C1. I just purchased OMD-5's for fronts (thanks to you all and Vann's) and might move them to surrounds to get OMD-15's for fronts. The OMD-C1 is too tall (at almost 8") to sit in front of our flat-panel display (wall mount or other locations aren't an option for us). Height limit for center speaker is 5". I've owned the OS3-cc and felt it had weak dialogue. Anyone have an educated suggestion as to what other speaker might mesh timbre close enough to not create a problem. By the way, our new AVR has Audyssey MultiEQ; perhaps that might mitigate a 'matching timbre' issue. Thanks for your help with this.

I had the same issue, and rather than choosing to downgrade to a lesser center channel, I chose to put my TV on a "riser" so that I had room for the center below/in front of my display.

I would highly recommend with the OMD-C1 as I am in love with mine! It does such and excellent job giving full, clear, and detailed dialogue. In movies I never have to strain to hear what is being said, and with music it is just so rich and smooth. Listening to everything from Andrea Bocelli, Dave Matthews, Michael Buble, or The Foo Fighters in 5.1 PCM is an absolute joy with this thing front and center. :D

Considered going with the RC-LCR to complete the Energy RC setup I have, but the clarity and sound dispersion that the OMD-C1 offers was too good to pass up. And the fact that the Energy's and the Mirage's use a lot of the same technologies and sound characteristics helps the two lines blend very well.

I had the same issue, and rather than choosing to downgrade to a lesser center channel, I chose to put my TV on a "riser" so that I had room for the center below/in front of my display.

I would highly recommend with the OMD-C1 as I am in love with mine! It does such and excellent job giving full, clear, and detailed dialogue. In movies I never have to strain to hear what is being said, and with music it is just so rich and smooth. Listening to everything from Andrea Bocelli, Dave Matthews, Michael Buble, or The Foo Fighters in 5.1 PCM is an absolute joy with this thing front and center. :D

Considered going with the RC-LCR to complete the Energy RC setup I have, but the clarity and sound dispersion that the OMD-C1 offers was too good to pass up. And the fact that the Energy's and the Mirage's use a lot of the same technologies and sound characteristics helps the two lines blend very well.

Agreed - if tadcu could somehow rearrange things to accommodate the C1, it would be worth it. I bought a set of the OMD's back in August (15's C1 and 5's) and am very pleased with them. The C1 makes an excellent center speaker.

BWILBERG266 & MONKUBOY - I suspected it might come up that I should try to accomodate the C1. Thank you both, though, for you well stated comments about the C1's strengths because they make me reconsider possibly raising my display. Nonetheless, anyone else think exact timbre isn't a big issue when using Audyssey....and have any possible suggestions for other not-so-tall center speakers with dialogue clarity.

I've owned the OS3-cc and felt it had weak dialogue. Anyone have an educated suggestion as to what other speaker might mesh timbre close enough to not create a problem. By the way, our new AVR has Audyssey MultiEQ; perhaps that might mitigate a 'matching timbre' issue. Thanks for your help with this.Find a place to mount an OMDC1. Attach it to the ceiling, the top of the TV (upside down). Something. Don't **** around.

Hi

I'm thinking of shipping some Omnican OC-45's to Australia and was wondering if anyone knows the shipping carton size and if possible the weight?

Thank you JC5

^ You might also try contacting Mirage directly.

I have picked up a pair of OMD5's that I am using for my fronts currently. I am evaluating if I want to go with 5's all around for my 5.1 setup. I love that I can move all around the room and still have a solid soundfield, but it is taking a while to get used to the "way" they sound. I have Ascend 340 Classics currently for my L/C/R so they go much lower than the OMD5's. Even though I was running both crossed over to the sub at 80hz, the Ascends still sound fuller. Is it my imagination? This weekend I want to try and hook up one of the OMD5's to the center to see how it performs on center duty. I am very keen on going with the same speaker all around and the OMD5 seem like the ideal choice for my space. Is the consensus that the OMDC1 is vastly superior to a OMD5 for center channel duty or is the difference more subtle?

...Ascend 340 Classics currently for my L/C/R so they go much lower than the OMD5's. Even though I was running both crossed over to the sub at 80hz, the Ascends still sound fuller. Is it my imagination?

Probably not. The Ascend 340 that I'm familiar with is a much larger ported loudspeaker.

...Is the consensus that the OMDC1 is vastly superior to a OMD5 for center channel duty or is the difference more subtle?

I'm not sure that I've come to that conclusion from the info in this thread. A horizontal center is almost always a compromise to accommodate aesthetics.

Superior for one situation is not going to be superior for all. Rooms, layout, source material, calibration, treatments, user-error, etc., etc. will vary wildly.

Hope this helps.

I need to get a floor stand for my OMD-C1 center speaker. Any recommendation for a cheap, no frills, but sturdy stand? (OMD-C1 weighs about 15 lbs.)

Do you know if these kind of stands would work with this speaker? (I don't know if speaker stands are standardized for all speakers, or if each speaker requires a specific type of speaker stand...?)
http://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PRO-PSTND2-Tripod-Speaker-Stand/dp/B000E0PPG0/ref=pd_cp_MI_1
http://www.amazon.com/American-Audio-SPS1B-Black-Speaker/dp/B000GUDMAO/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1288567121&sr=8-13
http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-BF-24B-Speaker-Stands/dp/B00006JQ5N/ref=cm_cmu_pg__header

Thanks!

Superior for one situation is not going to be superior for all. Rooms, layout, source material, calibration, treatments, user-error, etc., etc. will vary wildly.

Hope this helps.

All true. My experience - I have OMD5s all around and an OMDC1 center in a living room HT setup - EQ via Audessey. I did select this center based on information in this thread. The OMDC1 is definitely larger, louder and has more mass than the OMDC5, and it's more expensive. I believe it works well for me because I tend to listen at lower volumes and the larger center, I believe, provides greater clarity for dialogue. If you listen at louder volumes maybe having an OMD5 as a center will be fine. I haven't tested with that configuration.

I need to get a floor stand for my OMD-C1 center speaker. Any recommendation for a cheap, no frills, but sturdy stand? (OMD-C1 weighs about 15 lbs.)

Do you know if these kind of stands would work with this speaker? (I don't know if speaker stands are standardized for all speakers, or if each speaker requires a specific type of speaker stand...?)
http://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PRO-PSTND2-Tripod-Speaker-Stand/dp/B000E0PPG0/ref=pd_cp_MI_1
http://www.amazon.com/American-Audio-SPS1B-Black-Speaker/dp/B000GUDMAO/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1288567121&sr=8-13
http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-BF-24B-Speaker-Stands/dp/B00006JQ5N/ref=cm_cmu_pg__header

Thanks!

Those stands you listed are not the right kind of stands for a C1, especially not those tripod stands. The C-1 is fairly wide so you need a stand that can accommodate a horizontal speaker. This is what I use:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007WIMJW/

The prices on the Mirage speakers have sparked my interest in the brand and technology behind these speakers. However, I went to BB and listened to the OS3's and wasn't impressed. The dialogue lacked detail and I felt the volume would need to be increased too much to get the clarity I need, especially with my high-frequency hearing loss. I listed to some Difinitive tech 800's and they were much better in this regard. The sales associate also said he'd pick them over the OS3s, since he seemed to prefer the direct radiating speaker design and the better detail. I liked the Mirages, but wonder if the OMD5s would make up for the difference in detail? Has anybody compared or owned the two brands? I realized I'm comparing a direct speaker to a omni-polar design, but wonder if there's always going to be a high-frequency trade-off, or if I just haven't heard it since BB doesn't carry the OMD line? I've been looking at a pair of the 15s for the front, a C1, and some OMD5s for the rear.

The prices on the Mirage speakers have sparked my interest in the brand and technology behind these speakers. However, I went to BB and listened to the OS3's and wasn't impressed. The dialogue lacked detail and I felt the volume would need to be increased too much to get the clarity I need, especially with my high-frequency hearing loss. I listed to some Difinitive tech 800's and they were much better in this regard. The sales associate also said he'd pick them over the OS3s, since he seemed to prefer the direct radiating speaker design and the better detail. I liked the Mirages, but wonder if the OMD5s would make up for the difference in detail? Has anybody compared or owned the two brands? I realized I'm comparing a direct speaker to a omni-polar design, but wonder if there's always going to be a high-frequency trade-off, or if I just haven't heard it since BB doesn't carry the OMD line? I've been looking at a pair of the 15s for the front, a C1, and some OMD5s for the rear.

I haven't heard the OS3's but I have a set of the OMD's (15's in front, C1 center and 5's for surrounds) and they are excellent. They are very well timbre matched, too. The OMD line was Mirage's flagship until it was discontinued and most comparisons I've read from people who have heard both lines say there is no comparison, the OMD's are much better than the OS3's. Even with the omni-polar design, I find them to be very detailed. Dialog is crisp and clean. Plus, the prices at Vann's on the OMD line are downright ridiculously cheap for what you get. Given that they are offering free shipping and there's no sales tax, I really think that's a better option than buying from BB.

The prices on the Mirage speakers have sparked my interest in the brand and technology behind these speakers. However, I went to BB and listened to the OS3's and wasn't impressed. The dialogue lacked detail and I felt the volume would need to be increased too much to get the clarity I need, especially with my high-frequency hearing loss. I listed to some Difinitive tech 800's and they were much better in this regard. The sales associate also said he'd pick them over the OS3s, since he seemed to prefer the direct radiating speaker design and the better detail. I liked the Mirages, but wonder if the OMD5s would make up for the difference in detail? Has anybody compared or owned the two brands? I realized I'm comparing a direct speaker to a omni-polar design, but wonder if there's always going to be a high-frequency trade-off, or if I just haven't heard it since BB doesn't carry the OMD line? I've been looking at a pair of the 15s for the front, a C1, and some OMD5s for the rear.

The OS3 and the OMD-5 are both Omnipolar. The OMD is a larger, more robust bookshelf speaker that can be played louder and extend a little deeper without significant distortion.

Depending on the degree of your hearing loss, I would initially agree that a direct radiating speaker might be a better choice. Of course, this is really speculation and will ultimately depend on your hearing, room, placement, equipment, equalization, source material, expertise, etc.

In my opinion, Best Buy is a very tough place to judge speakers properly. It will almost never give you a true idea of how a set of speakers will sound in your home.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the responses. I guess there is no substitute for hearing them, but there isn't another Mirage dealer in my area. I was lucky there was a Magnolia room at Best Buy in my area that carried these lines. The Magnolia room I auditioned them in wasn't bad. I was also able to listen to Difinitive & B&W in it. The deals at Vanns are what sparked my interest, so I know they are almost a steal at these prices. I was hoping the Mirages would be better but the B&Ws and Difinitive speakers had more better high frequency response. BB also didn't have the sepakers set up using Audesy EQ, so that would help too. I don't have a system right now, but have owned Vandersteens and Totems previously. Neither of these two brands is at the price point I'd like to stay at.

lodom - It may be that there is a difference in the way the speakers would suit you. Or, it may be that the receiver settings or placement in the room affected how they sounded.

But it's not a matter of the ability of either speaker to reproduce high frequencies. The human voice is mostly under 3khz, and quite a bit lower for dialogue. So most of the vocal energy is coming out of the midrange/woofer, not the tweeter. Interesting article:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/frequency_e.html

If you have hearing loss, you'd be less likely to notice the differences in the way truly high frequencies (above 8-10 khz) are produced with the Omnipolar tweeter setup. That's the harmonics the article discusses.

I'm not sure what kind of center they had with the OS3 system. That might also be a factor.

Buzzy....good point with the vocal range below 3khz. I'll take a look at the link you posted. I think it is the loss of high-frequency energy, since high frequencies are directional and the tweeter's energy is being radiated in all directions on the Mirages. It is also the difference in the presentation of direct vs omni-polar sound and the differences in imaging. We listened to all the speakers on a $700+ Pioneer receiver using Top Gun on a Blueray and listened to Blues CD as well on a Panasonic player. So, the front end was the same. We also compared the OS3s to the Nanostats, and the OS3s sounded like a bigger version of them. We listened with and without different subs and also used the matching OS3 center. I'd expect incremental improvements moving to the OMD5s. It wasn't fair to compare to the B&Ws, since they were 3x the price and floorstanding models.

The OMD line was Mirage's flagship until it was discontinued and most comparisons I've read from people who have heard both lines say there is no comparison, the OMD's are much better than the OS3's.

I think it's safe to say now that the OMDs have not been discontinued. They are just in limited distribution.

Initially when the OMD line started to vanish from dealers Mirage even erased their existence from their own site. That was two years ago!

Now it seems that the renewed interest at the prices Vann's were selling them to burn out the overstock has woke Klipsch/Mirage up. Mirage once again even have a direct link to the line on their homepage and indicate it's now exclusive to Vann's.

I'd expect incremental improvements moving to the OMD5s.It's actually a big step up. But that doesn't mean you'll like them.

I think it's safe to say now that the OMDs have not been discontinued. They are just in limited distribution.

Initially when the OMD line started to vanish from dealers Mirage even erased their existence from their own site. That was two years ago!

Now it seems that the renewed interest at the prices Vann's were selling them to burn out the overstock has woke Klipsch/Mirage up. Mirage once again even have a direct link to the line on their homepage and indicate it's now exclusive to Vann's.

I think this brings up a legitimate question about whether the new batch of OMDs are the same level of quality as the old. Maybe it is, but if these lower prices are basically the new MSRP, then it wouldn't be shocking if they started cutting corners. I hope I'm wrong, but now I don't feel quite as good about the "deal" I got on these speakers.

I currently have the OMD-5s for front speakers. I will be moving them to the rear when my OMD-15s arrive. What speaker stand would you guys recommended? I would prefer something that I could secure the speaker to.

Thanks.

I think this brings up a legitimate question about whether the new batch of OMDs are the same level of quality as the old. Maybe it is, but if these lower prices are basically the new MSRP, then it wouldn't be shocking if they started cutting corners. I hope I'm wrong, but now I don't feel quite as good about the "deal" I got on these speakers.

I have always assumed that their move to China for production is where the cost savings come from. Also, the fit and finish compare favorably with speakers much more expensive.

I think this brings up a legitimate question about whether the new batch of OMDs are the same level of quality as the old. Maybe it is, but if these lower prices are basically the new MSRP, then it wouldn't be shocking if they started cutting corners. I hope I'm wrong, but now I don't feel quite as good about the "deal" I got on these speakers.

I purchased my set (15's, C1, 5's) in August and am very pleased with them in terms of sound and build quality. I was also wondering how it seems there is an endless supply of discontinued items but I'm not complaining! :D

It's all speculation. What tsaville says could be true.

Or, it may be that they had some spare cabinets or drivers or factories (!) around that they were going to have to pay for anyway, whether they made speakers or not. So it's also possible this is an alternative to shutting down a factory, paying severance, scrapping parts, etc. A way to keep production ready for when they need it.

Also, selling through Vanns must save some markup. If you've ever tried to sell anything through a small retail channel (like audio stores), you know the markups - from production cost to retail price - needed to make it all work at retail are staggering.

I have always assumed that their move to China for production is where the cost savings come from. Also, the fit and finish compare favorably with speakers much more expensive.

I also assume this is where the cost cutting happened. Also, in my home market, Mirage used to be carried by Tweeter who carried the whole line. Now we just have one store I believe other than Magnolia who carries Mirage. My assumption is as follows:

-Magnolia starts selling Mirage nationwide, but opts to not carry the OMD lineup.
-Mirage clears all OMD stock through Vanns, but sales are far better than expected
-Mirage already has the R&D / production and all other work completed for the OMD series. They continue to keep the factory rolling supplying only Vanns at fantastic low prices

Also keep in mind that Mirage was acquired by Klipsch shortly after OMD was created. I'm guessing that from Klipsch's point of view, they can continue to earn some return on the acquisition by selling the OMD series through Vanns. It seems that Klipsch was going to take the Mirage line in a different direction selling only small WAF friendly Omnipolars, but perhaps kept OMD in existence when there really wasn't a downside to kill it off so long as they can do so at profit (no matter how small). Remember that for a short time on the Mirage site, there were no full size speakers, only small stylish ones.

My only complaint is that it makes the brand less desirable. When their "high-end" lineup is being sold for 50% off or more all day long, it's not good for the long-term health of the brand. People get used to the discounts, and now will have a much harder time paying MSRP for full-sized Mirage speakers. I also wonder if we'll see a follow up to the OMD line.

I also assume this is where the cost cutting happened. Also, in my home market, Mirage used to be carried by Tweeter who carried the whole line. Now we just have one store I believe other than Magnolia who carries Mirage. My assumption is as follows:

-Magnolia starts selling Mirage nationwide, but opts to not carry the OMD lineup.
-Mirage clears all OMD stock through Vanns, but sales are far better than expected
-Mirage already has the R&D / production and all other work completed for the OMD series. They continue to keep the factory rolling supplying only Vanns at fantastic low prices

Also keep in mind that Mirage was acquired by Klipsch shortly after OMD was created. I'm guessing that from Klipsch's point of view, they can continue to earn some return on the acquisition by selling the OMD series through Vanns. It seems that Klipsch was going to take the Mirage line in a different direction selling only small WAF friendly Omnipolars, but perhaps kept OMD in existence when there really wasn't a downside to kill it off so long as they can do so at profit (no matter how small). Remember that for a short time on the Mirage site, there were no full size speakers, only small stylish ones.

My only complaint is that it makes the brand less desirable. When their "high-end" lineup is being sold for 50% off or more all day long, it's not good for the long-term health of the brand. People get used to the discounts, and now will have a much harder time paying MSRP for full-sized Mirage speakers. I also wonder if we'll see a follow up to the OMD line.

Maybe there won't be any more full sized Mirage speakers and the plan is to just keep the smaller ones in the retail stores and do the OMD's direct through Vann's? Maybe the cost savings makes the OMD's as profitable as it does selling the smaller ones through a normal retail channel.

Maybe there won't be any more full sized Mirage speakers and the plan is to just keep the smaller ones in the retail stores and do the OMD's direct through Vann's? Maybe the cost savings makes the OMD's as profitable as it does selling the smaller ones through a normal retail channel.

But aren't they cannibalizing their own sales to an extent? Who would buy the OS3 if the OMD5 is readily available for the same price (or cheaper)? Granted, there are many people who will pick up the OS3 in Best Buy, blissfully ignorant about the existence of the OMD line, but it still seems like an odd strategy to me.

But aren't they cannibalizing their own sales to an extent? Who would buy the OS3 if the OMD5 is readily available for the same price (or cheaper)? Granted, there are many people who will pick up the OS3 in Best Buy, blissfully ignorant about the existence of the OMD line, but it still seems like an odd strategy to me.

I believe you have two types of consumers:
1. The Best Buy customer, who probably isnt' going to shop around/audtion a whole lot ... While Magnolia is nice, the rooms typically don't have a couch and the speakers are all in different positions making it difficult to do a true audition.

2. Audiophiles like most of us here.

I assume that once Magnolia started carrying Mirage, along with Vanns blowing them out at 50%, there's little incentive left for the smaller boutiques to keep the line. You don't want to compete with Best Buy, and you don't want to compete with online sales at 50% off.

I'm guessing that OMD was conceived before the Klipsch buyout, and Magnolia rollout. They're probably trying to recoup as much of their R&D etc. by continuing to sell OMD, but it's unlikely that the Best Buy consumer (the ones who actually regularly buy stuff there) will blindly purchase from Vanns.

The downside is that while we're able to get fantastic speakers at fantastic prices right now, it doesn't bode well for the future of Mirage. Then again, i'm not sure Klipsch cares.

I also assume this is where the cost cutting happened. Also, in my home market, Mirage used to be carried by Tweeter who carried the whole line. Now we just have one store I believe other than Magnolia who carries Mirage. My assumption is as follows:

-Magnolia starts selling Mirage nationwide, but opts to not carry the OMD lineup.
-Mirage clears all OMD stock through Vanns, but sales are far better than expected
-Mirage already has the R&D / production and all other work completed for the OMD series. They continue to keep the factory rolling supplying only Vanns at fantastic low prices

Also keep in mind that Mirage was acquired by Klipsch shortly after OMD was created. I'm guessing that from Klipsch's point of view, they can continue to earn some return on the acquisition by selling the OMD series through Vanns. It seems that Klipsch was going to take the Mirage line in a different direction selling only small WAF friendly Omnipolars, but perhaps kept OMD in existence when there really wasn't a downside to kill it off so long as they can do so at profit (no matter how small). Remember that for a short time on the Mirage site, there were no full size speakers, only small stylish ones.

My only complaint is that it makes the brand less desirable. When their "high-end" lineup is being sold for 50% off or more all day long, it's not good for the long-term health of the brand. People get used to the discounts, and now will have a much harder time paying MSRP for full-sized Mirage speakers. I also wonder if we'll see a follow up to the OMD line.

I also have one more theory, Klipsch is doing the manufacturing using their own facility. This would maybe explain the long delays in restocking by Vanns.

Whatever the reason, keep them coming. These speakers are great especially for movies.:)

I think this brings up a legitimate question about whether the new batch of OMDs are the same level of quality as the old. Maybe it is, but if these lower prices are basically the new MSRP, then it wouldn't be shocking if they started cutting corners. I hope I'm wrong, but now I don't feel quite as good about the "deal" I got on these speakers.

possible, but when i look at and listen to my OMD15s I know they certainly look to be worth more that the $500 each when i see plastic and paper in magnolia for the same prices. dont worry about getting a "deal" on them. if you think they are worth the price, then the msrp shouldnt matter.

if they are really only worthy of $250, but msrp was $1500, and you bought them for $499, would you be happy? if they were truly worth $499 in your mind, and you paid $499, would you be happy?

While I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy. Allow me to play devil's advocate here.

If the manufacturing process of the OMD line was indeed streamlined to the point that it has "cheapened" the performance of the speaker, as has been implied by a few "magic bullet" posts, then I propose that almost certainly the specifications of the OMDs would have been adjusted to reflect these "new" (read: cheaper) materials, crossovers, etc. This would probably be reflected on both the manufacturer and retailer websites as well as in the owner's manual. In a nutshell, this would probably require a complete redesign and reengineering of the "former" flagship line. I doubt that is the case.

As we can probably gather, there was a significant markup on the Mirage speakers -- as is the case with most audio/video gear, not just Mirage. Klipsch/Mirage improved its margins by moving the manufacturing process to China, years ago -- as is the case with most audio/video gear, not just Mirage. :)

While I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy. Allow me to play devil's advocate here.

If the manufacturing process of the OMD line was indeed streamlined to the point that it has "cheapened" the performance of the speaker, as has been implied by a few "magic bullet" posts, then I propose that almost certainly the specifications of the OMDs would have been adjusted to reflect these "new" (read: cheaper) materials, crossovers, etc. This would probably be reflected on both the manufacturer and retailer websites as well as in the owner's manual. In a nutshell, this would probably require a complete redesign and reengineering of the "former" flagship line. I doubt that is the case.

As we can probably gather, there was a significant markup on the Mirage speakers -- as is the case with most audio/video gear, not just Mirage. Klipsch/Mirage improved its margins by moving the manufacturing process to China, years ago -- as is the case with most audio/video gear, not just Mirage. :)

I don't think quality has been reduced. API moved manufacturing to China before the Klipsch acquisition I believe. I believe some of the cost savings are from the China move, and the rest are from the fact that they're being sold "direct".

My main concern is that over the long term, Klipsch won't maintain the prestige of the Mirage brand, and the constant sales will end up ruining the brand. Gone of the days of the towering Mirage flagships (think OM-5s). We're lucky to have OMD since it was the replacement for OM before the takeover. I'm not sure what Klipsch will do with the brand going forward.

...Klipsch won't maintain the prestige of the Mirage brand...

I found a pun.

;)

My main concern is that over the long term, Klipsch won't maintain the prestige of the Mirage brand, and the constant sales will end up ruining the brand. Gone of the days of the towering Mirage flagships (think OM-5s). We're lucky to have OMD since it was the replacement for OM before the takeover. I'm not sure what Klipsch will do with the brand going forward.

I think the OMD-levels of speaker are long over. This seems to be a way to keep selling an old speaker line with reasonably cheap and easy distribution. Call it a last gasp for a old warhorse. :)

The OMD series are three (four?) years old now and I don't imagine anyone at Klipsch is pouring money into R&D for a replacement. So they keep making the OMD in limited quantities and people like us will snap them up for something of a bargain. It's easier money to keep this line alive after the design and production issues have been sorted out than it is to start from scratch on development for a more competitive and current model.

Mirage is now seemingly being aimed at those who value style and form factor over pure audio capability. For typical retail stores the cosmetics are what gets the attention of Joe Public.

possible, but when i look at and listen to my OMD15s I know they certainly look to be worth more that the $500 each when i see plastic and paper in magnolia for the same prices. dont worry about getting a "deal" on them. if you think they are worth the price, then the msrp shouldnt matter.

Nah, that doesn't matter.

What really matters is when visitors come around they think they cost much, much more than they really did. :D

I think the OMD-levels of speaker are long over. This seems to be a way to keep selling an old speaker line with reasonably cheap and easy distribution. Call it a last gasp for a old warhorse. :)

The OMD series are three (four?) years old now and I don't imagine anyone at Klipsch is pouring money into R&D for a replacement. So they keep making the OMD in limited quantities and people like us will snap them up for something of a bargain. It's easier money to keep this line alive after the design and production issues have been sorted out than it is to start from scratch on development for a more competitive and current model.

Mirage is now seemingly being aimed at those who value style and form factor over pure audio capability. For typical retail stores the cosmetics are what gets the attention of Joe Public.

Agreed

This is sad, we've seen no new major R&D come out of Mirage since the Klipsch takeover. They're milking the OMD line for whatever it's worth, since it's an old line, and it's easier money than investing in R&D.

I wonder what Ian Paisley and Andrew Welkner are up to these days? Still employed by Klipsch? It was their breakthrough designs that got Mirage on the map. I believe Ian designed many of the Bipolar desings, and Andrew worked on the Omnipolar (so that using 2x the drivers wasn't required).

Presumably Klipsch will just keep making stylish stuff. I hope i'm wrong and we see some truly innovative designs come out of Mirage.

For what it's worth, it seems Klipsch has done the exact same thing with Energy's RC line as with Mirage's OMD. It's *always* on clearance someplace at a fraction of the original price. While it gives us the opportunity to enjoy phenomenal sound at low cost, I fear that Energy and Mirage will fade away over the long term.

The new Veritas line (sold at Futureshop in Canada?!?) also doesn't look very promising, and based on the pictures i've seen doesn't appear to be nearly as appealing as the original Veritas Series.

The one thing most of these posts don't mention is the recession. That's been a big factor for years now. It's no surprise they are not doing major R&D and rolling out new lines during a recession. That would be a mistake. So it's no surprise to see them laying low.

Which makes it hard to tell if it's the recession, or a change in strategy.

The omnipolar design and relatively small size gives them a very good product with a unique niche.

And there is always going to be room for a speaker larger than the OS3, because while the OS3 is a decent speaker, the frequency range is somewhat limited. Whether that's a big enough market to support a line above the OS3 line, that I can't say. But it's not hard to imagine it happening, when the economy improves.

The one thing most of these posts don't mention is the recession. That's been a big factor for years now. It's no surprise they are not doing major R&D and rolling out new lines during a recession. That would be a mistake. So it's no surprise to see them laying low.

Which makes it hard to tell if it's the recession, or a change in strategy.

The omnipolar design and relatively small size gives them a very good product with a unique niche.

And there is always going to be room for a speaker larger than the OS3, because while the OS3 is a decent speaker, the frequency range is somewhat limited. Whether that's a big enough market to support a line above the OS3 line, that I can't say. But it's not hard to imagine it happening, when the economy improves.

Good one.

Any recommendations on speaker stand for the OMD-5s?

This question is directed to Monkuboy:

Monkuboy, you have the OMD Mirage speaker selection that I am considering buying (15's, 5's, C!). I currently own a complete set of Polk Audio Lsi's (Lsi9's, FX's, C). Although I love the sound of the Polks they are almost too directional for me. You really have to be right in the sweet spot to hear them best. Also, because they are 4ohm speakers, it takes some power to push them. Most that own them say that they sound the best when biamping which would necessitate the expense of purchasing two separate power amps.

Recently, I purchased a set of the Mirage Nanosats.....and wow! Now I am interested in pursuing the OMD's like you have. My thinking is that the OMD's will sound even better than the Nanosats, and and the OMD-15's may get somewhere near the bass response that the Lsi9's have. Also, they may need less power being at 6ohms.

What I would like to know is what speakers did you previously have, and now that you have the OMD's are they all that you want them to be.....is there any critisims? Now that you have had them for a while is there ever any thoughts about going back to a conventional type speaker? What about the fidelity on these? From lows to highs are you pretty satisfied with the sound? Everyone talks mostly about the omnipolar sound without as much talk on the actual fidelity.

Thanks in advance,

Devlon

islandman, I hope you get some feedback from monkuboy, but 2 cents from me ... if you like the Nanosat, the OMD5 is many times better. That's not hype, it's just physics - the Nanosat is too small to deliver enough frequency range - and construction quality.

I will say, though, that if you've owned a good set of speakers for a long time, it sometimes takes a long time to get used to a different set.

Just to clarify, I'm very happy with my OMD speakers (and the price I paid). However, I think perception is just as important as reality in the audio world. If you think you got a great deal on some high-end speakers, you're going to look for the positives and probably think they're better than they really are. On the flip side, if you think you bought great "budget" speakers you might be happy but you'll always think you could have done better. I think the OMD line started as the former and has become the latter.

With that said, I think the OMDs sound great, and I've come to grips with owning the best "budget" speakers on the planet. :)

Just to clarify, I'm very happy with my OMD speakers (and the price I paid). However, I think perception is just as important as reality in the audio world. If you think you got a great deal on some high-end speakers, you're going to look for the positives and probably think they're better than they really are. On the flip side, if you think you bought great "budget" speakers you might be happy but you'll always think you could have done better. I think the OMD line started as the former and has become the latter.

With that said, I think the OMDs sound great, and I've come to grips with owning the best "budget" speakers on the planet. :)

I hope i'm correct in saying this, but I don't think they're truly budget speakers. There were hints refering to the OMD line on the Mirage forum (on the Mirage site) before the takeover. I'd like to think that OMD was designed and conceived to sell at full MSRP through select small boutique dealers. The economy, Klipsch acquisition, and offshoring of production changed things and in the end, many of us got some excellent speakers at unheard of prices. If things on the corporate side had happened differently, I don't doubt they would have sold for far more money (why else offer such high end wood and gloss finishes!)

This question is directed to Monkuboy:

Monkuboy, you have the OMD Mirage speaker selection that I am considering buying (15's, 5's, C!). I currently own a complete set of Polk Audio Lsi's (Lsi9's, FX's, C). Although I love the sound of the Polks they are almost too directional for me. You really have to be right in the sweet spot to hear them best. Also, because they are 4ohm speakers, it takes some power to push them. Most that own them say that they sound the best when biamping which would necessitate the expense of purchasing two separate power amps.

Recently, I purchased a set of the Mirage Nanosats.....and wow! Now I am interested in pursuing the OMD's like you have. My thinking is that the OMD's will sound even better than the Nanosats, and and the OMD-15's may get somewhere near the bass response that the Lsi9's have. Also, they may need less power being at 6ohms.

What I would like to know is what speakers did you previously have, and now that you have the OMD's are they all that you want them to be.....is there any critisims? Now that you have had them for a while is there ever any thoughts about going back to a conventional type speaker? What about the fidelity on these? From lows to highs are you pretty satisfied with the sound? Everyone talks mostly about the omnipolar sound without as much talk on the actual fidelity.

Thanks in advance,

Devlon

Well I've actually had several speakers during the past couple of years (people think I have a crazy speaker obsession). I originally had Rocket ELT's (3 of their center channels across the front and the smaller ones for surrounds). Then I was looking at Swans speakers and decided I would get the D2.1se's for the fronts, and at that time the matching center and surrounds were supposed to be a month or two away from release. I kept the ELT center and surrounds but they didn't blend very well. Since the matching Swans kept getting delayed I finally gave up and bought some Emotiva speakers - 2 of the 6.2's for the fronts, a 6.3 for the center and ERM-1's for the surrounds. I figured I would sell the Swans but couldn't find a buyer which is just as well because they really are too nice to sell. Then because the Emo 6.3 didn't match very well with the other speakers as far as timbre, I sold that and replaced it with another 6.2 so I had the same speakers across the front. Soon after, I did the Skiing Ninja crossover upgrade on the 3 6.2's across the front. Then.. I replaced everything again! This time with Hsu HB-1 Mk 2's all around. I thought I was pretty happy with those until I happened to read about the OMD's being on sale at Vanns and the more I read about them the more I figured I should buy them so that's what I did, which brings me to today..

Soundwise: The Rockets are decidedly the least of the speakers I've had in recent times.

The Swans D2.1se's are excellent speakers. I am amazed at what good bass response they have - very tight, visceral bass (you can feel the pluck of a string bass), no boominess whatsoever. They have very good balance and are beautiful, too. The shortcomings are the rear port makes them kind of fussy about placement (they have to be quite a bit away from the wall) and also, they are not real efficient so you need a powerful amp to drive them properly.

I thought the Emo's were on the bright side (the 6.2's and ERM-1). The 6.3 sounds more like the Swans than the other Emo speakers. The Ninja upgrade made them sound better but they were still a bit too bright for my tastes. For example, cymbals come off as being overly bright, if you ask me. They're really efficient speakers and can play loud, and also the build quality is very good. Emo doesn't skimp on any of the parts, even the screws. Unfortunately the flat black finish isn't the most fancy look, but I still like them.

Then I visited the Hsu headquarters and listened to the HB-1 Mk 2's and ended up buying 5 of them that day. Pete Hsu is a great guy - he let me play a bunch of tracks from CD's, explained things, and basically was a great host. The Hsu's are amazing for the price and personally I like them a bit better than the Emo's. While they have horns, they are not at all harsh and don't sound like horns. They have a nice balance. The negatives is that they do have a somewhat boxy sound on some recordings.

So now, the Mirage speakers: One thing I noticed is that they are all very well matched timbre-wise. And you don't have to sit in one place for a sweet spot. You can walk around the room and they sound good no matter where you are; this doesn't mean you can't localize the instruments or vocals - they still do this very well. Personally I think they do better with a sub. Music sounds great on them but when I add the sub (Hsu VTF 2 Mk 3), it adds the kick that is missing from the very bottom of the OMD 15's. Aside from that low bass, the 15's produce the rest of the spectrum very well. I'd say they are faithful. The center and the 5's do an excellent job as well but they are just lacking in the bass section. What I get from them is an open, natural sound and there is no notion of sound coming from boxes. I can't say that about the other speakers I've had. I wouldn't characterize them as boxy sounding (the others) but on the other hand, I knew I was listening to speakers in a box, if that makes any sense. The OMD's do not give that impression.

The Swans have a much tighter, analytical-type sound to them, with instruments and vocals being very well defined. The Emo's sound, well, looser I guess. They are brighter but lack bass. You definitely need a sub with them. With a good sub, they put out a very lively sound. The Hsu's are sort of inbetween the Emo's and Swans. I feel very fortunate to have had all these speakers (in fact I still have the Swans in a 2 channel setup and the Hsu's are in the garage). But, if I were to choose which ones I feel are the best overall, it would be the OMD's. I am very satisfied but like I said, I do think they are better with a good sub. In my opinion they do have very good fidelity. The C1 is really clear with dialog. Even with the omnipolar setup, I have no trouble at all discerning what is being said. All of the speakers are the same way. I give a big thumbs up all around on these speakers - sound, looks, build quality and fidelity.

That said, there are other speakers I am curious about, but they cost a lot more than the OMD's so I will just remain curious about them. :D Gee, sorry to write so much. I hope that was helpful.

Oh also, I am driving the fronts with an Emo XPA-2 and the center and surrounds with an XPA-3. The speakers can play plenty loud and the amps don't break a sweat. They are pretty easy to drive. The center seems more efficient than the other ones.

(hope I didn't put you to sleep..)

Great post.

I'd kind of forgotten about how this is one of the things I like most about Mirage speakers. It's good to be reminded:What I get from them is an open, natural sound and there is no notion of sound coming from boxes. I can't say that about the other speakers I've had. I wouldn't characterize them as boxy sounding (the others) but on the other hand, I knew I was listening to speakers in a box, if that makes any sense. The OMD's do not give that impression.

... (people think I have a crazy speaker obsession).

I wonder why they think that ... ;)

Great summary. Enjoyed it!

Wow, thanks for all the info! Appreciate it! Very Informative. I have been on a witch hunt as well over the last couple years for some really decent speakers in a price range I could afford. I wanted better than what the big box stores carried, so it necessitated me buying speakers....trying them out.....selling speakers....buying speakers,etc.,etc. as I would read reviews on different ones that interested me. Right now, as I mentioned, I am using Polk Audio LSI series which are compared to speakers 2-3 times as expensive. Their ring radiator tweeter is usually only found in $10,000 plus speakers like the Krells. I also have at home here a complete surround set of Wharfedale Diamond 9.6 towers, center and surrounds. The towers are really large....too big, and is the only reason I'm selling them. Amazing sound for the money though. First speakers I ever heard that did not need a sub. I also have a set for Crate PE 126's. 2.5 system speakers....great sound with fat lows and strong mids...but maybe just a little weak on the highs. I keep telling myself with each audio purchase this is the last, but I'm a speaker addict I guess and I just keep ordering, LOL!

Anyway, thanks again for all your info. I did want to ask want preamp you are using with Emotiva power amps? I am considering my first in to the "separates world", and I'm considering Emotiva power amps and their UMC-1 processor. I have a HK AVR 354, and understand I can use the preamp section of it to run the Emotivas, but I don't know if this is as good as having a stand alone processor. Did you notice a difference in sound when you went from a self powered AVR to separate power amps? On many reviews I have read on the Polk LSI's say that they sound even more stunning using separates and biamping. So, before I sell them I will probably order the Mirage OMD's like yours and compare them side by side with all of the PolKs biamped, and with the OMD-15 biamped when I try the Mirages.

Appreciatively,

Devlon

Islandman I would not recommend Emotiva amps at all. If you want to move to separates do it the right way and don't cheap out by getting Emo gear. There are so many other budget amplifier options out there instead. I am still absolutely astonished by how many get suckered in by their pricing model. You definitely get what you pay for with the Emo stuff (amps). Just my opinion of course but I'd keep the HK receiver and do some more research before you waste your money.

Wow, thanks for all the info! Appreciate it! Very Informative. I have been on a witch hunt as well over the last couple years for some really decent speakers in a price range I could afford. I wanted better than what the big box stores carried, so it necessitated me buying speakers....trying them out.....selling speakers....buying speakers,etc.,etc. as I would read reviews on different ones that interested me. Right now, as I mentioned, I am using Polk Audio LSI series which are compared to speakers 2-3 times as expensive. Their ring radiator tweeter is usually only found in $10,000 plus speakers like the Krells. I also have at home here a complete surround set of Wharfedale Diamond 9.6 towers, center and surrounds. The towers are really large....too big, and is the only reason I'm selling them. Amazing sound for the money though. First speakers I ever heard that did not need a sub. I also have a set for Crate PE 126's. 2.5 system speakers....great sound with fat lows and strong mids...but maybe just a little weak on the highs. I keep telling myself with each audio purchase this is the last, but I'm a speaker addict I guess and I just keep ordering, LOL!

Anyway, thanks again for all your info. I did want to ask want preamp you are using with Emotiva power amps? I am considering my first in to the "separates world", and I'm considering Emotiva power amps and their UMC-1 processor. I have a HK AVR 354, and understand I can use the preamp section of it to run the Emotivas, but I don't know if this is as good as having a stand alone processor. Did you notice a difference in sound when you went from a self powered AVR to separate power amps? On many reviews I have read on the Polk LSI's say that they sound even more stunning using separates and biamping. So, before I sell them I will probably order the Mirage OMD's like yours and compare them side by side with all of the PolKs biamped, and with the OMD-15 biamped when I try the Mirages.

Appreciatively,

Devlon

I am using an Emotiva USP-1 for the preamp when in 2-channel mode. I also have a UMC-1 for HT use. When in HT the signal from the UMC-1 is passed through the USP-1 and the USP-1 has no effect on it. As for the UMC-1, I am happy with mine but I don't have a lot of things hooked up to it. In fact, I just have an Oppo BDP83 connected and play blu ray, DVD's and SACD's using that. The recent firmware upgrades seem to have corrected most, if not all of the problems that were plaguing the UMC-1 and while I am happy with mine, I guess my advice would be if you have a lot of different devices connected to it, then I am not so sure it is the right pre/pro to use. I would take advantage of their 30 day trial and test it out.

I do notice a difference between the Onkyo 706 AVR that I was previously using, versus switching to the Emotiva amps. It seems a lot more effortless, like the power and dynamics are there with the separate amps, than with the Onkyo AVR. In terms of the actual sound (like the tone of the instruments, voices, soundstage, etc.), since I didn't A/B them rapidly, I can't say for sure but it just seems like the music really opens up with the separate amps.

Islandman I would not recommend Emotiva amps at all. If you want to move to separates do it the right way and don't cheap out by getting Emo gear. There are so many other budget amplifier options out there instead. I am still absolutely astonished by how many get suckered in by their pricing model. You definitely get what you pay for with the Emo stuff (amps). Just my opinion of course but I'd keep the HK receiver and do some more research before you waste your money.

Well I've read your anti-Emo posts in other threads and all I can say is I am totally happy with my amps and so are a lot of other Emo owners. My amps are built like tanks and I see nothing cheap in the way they are made. That's my opinion, of course, but what I would also like to say is that price is not always indicative of quality or the actual cost of the product. An example of this is the Oppo in the box (can't remember the other company's name right now) that sells for 7x what the Oppo does but is exactly the same unit inside of a shell.

Emo offers a 30 day trial on all their products although with an amp, if you decide to return it that could be pretty costly with freight. The XPA-2 weighs about 65 lbs. Anyway, I love my Emo gear and am a happy owner.

Islandman I would not recommend Emotiva amps at all. If you want to move to separates do it the right way and don't cheap out by getting Emo gear. There are so many other budget amplifier options out there instead. I am still absolutely astonished by how many get suckered in by their pricing model. You definitely get what you pay for with the Emo stuff (amps). Just my opinion of course but I'd keep the HK receiver and do some more research before you waste your money.

I completely disagree with this statement. I have Emo gear and they provide the best bang for the buck and customer service beyond any other brand that I have used. I am not saying that there are not better amps out there, I just do not understand why people complain about Emo amps and they use the same factory as some of the other well known brands. I have seen the factory production photos to prove this.

But don't take my word for it, go check some reviews out at different AV sites like Audioholics or the user reviews at Emotivas forum for more first hand reviews.

I am not trying to bash your purchase at all, I am just trying to keep our peers from being closed minded and brainwashed by Emotiva. I happen to think they both look and sound awful. He may think differently. I only mentioned price because it's a fact that's what draws newer people to them. I think the Mirage's deserve better amplification.

I am not trying to bash your purchase at all, I am just trying to keep our peers from being closed minded and brainwashed by Emotiva. I happen to think they both look and sound awful. He may think differently. I only mentioned price because it's a fact that's what draws newer people to them. I think the Mirage's deserve better amplification.

Well I agree, a person should keep an open mind with respect to choosing equipment. And I also have to say the Emo look isn't the best but I've seen far worse. I took the silver trim off of all my Emo gear and just left the chrome screws in place and to me it looks way better like that. Essentially just a black box with a glowing blue light and those four screws to me makes it look elegant.

As for "brainwashed," I don't feel that is an appropriate term because that implies something underhanded is going on. Emotiva is not trying to fool anyone - I feel they offer an excellent value for their money and they are not trying to mislead anyone. Their service is great and they do offer a genuine 30-day return policy (you will not get any hassle about returning your money - it is done no questions asked).

The return policy is the best thing about Emotiva LOL!!! Sorry I couldn't resist. But yeah at least he can try one out and see what he thinks. I wish I liked their amps because if i did I would have bought one for my little sister long ago and not have to had spent too much cash. Instead I have her powering her OMD-5's with an Onkyo receiver for now.

The return policy is the best thing about Emotiva LOL!!! Sorry I couldn't resist. But yeah at least he can try one out and see what he thinks. I wish I liked their amps because if i did I would have bought one for my little sister long ago and not have to had spent too much cash. Instead I have her powering her OMD-5's with an Onkyo receiver for now.

I understand some of what you are saying. This industry does have a herd mentality when it comes to gear. I feel this way about Paradigm speakers. They use to be the best bang for the buck until they kept raising their prices. By the time I was ready to buy, they had priced themselves out of my budget. Sure they have lower end models now, but that is not what I wanted.

Secondly, the main reason I like Emotiva is because of their transparent approach. They are transparent to a fault. Most companies shy away from this and would rather have their brand name carry them through. I do not appreciate buying receivers and amps that lie about there output. Most companies do not tell you the capacitor and transformer rating used in their equipment. That is when I run far away. I have discovered that the best way to get good performance from a speaker is to supply the maximum amount of power recommended (high current amp). I have owned speakers that would not produce sufficient bass without doing this. This is how the manufacturer measures the performance of their speakers (not with underpowered AVRs).

Lastly, the OMDs require a good amp to perform properly. I have to turn them up louder in order to get the same level of performance as my previous speakers.

Focus, please. This is the Mirage speaker thread, not the Emo amp thread. We all know exactly what thread we can go to if we wanted to debate Emo amps, and it's not this one.

Focus, please. This is the Mirage speaker thread, not the Emo amp thread. We all know exactly what thread we can go to if we wanted to debate Emo amps, and it's not this one.

Well you are right, this is the Mirage thread. But we were talking about driving the OMD's with Emo amps. I just want to say that I feel my Emo amps do a great job with this - they are able to drive the OMD's to loud levels without getting very warm, and the sound I get (my opinion, since I know some others disagree) is very dynamic and detailed.

Mirage is now seemingly being aimed at those who value style and form factor over pure audio capability.That seems a little harsh. The OS3 line sounds pretty good.

And there's something to be said for giving the customer what they want. Trying to sell them something else is usually a recipe for liquidation. Small speakers that make some compromises on audio are what people want, and it shouldn't be that hard to understand why. For most people, they can get 98% of the enjoyment from a speaker that's 25% the size of what speakers used to be.

The reality is that the high end market is pretty small right now.

I'm sure there will be new Mirage products in the future, it's too good a product for that not to happen. And it's not like they need to do a lot of R&D, they can just refine what they have.

Hey Mirage OMD Owners, I need your advice!

I basically have two questions:

1) I am considering buying a 5.0 set of Mirage OMD's (15's, 5's, C1). I am wondering if there is anyone here that has pre/post experience with biamping the OMD-15's? What difference did you notice when you biamped these?

2) I have two nice 12" subs that I run simultaneously. Given that I have these subs, am I gaining anything by putting the OMD-15's in the mix, or am I just as well off by getting all OMD-5's (with C1 for center)? Would the 15's still add a desired character to the sound in this situation? Need your opinions!

Appreciatively,

Devlon

...1) I am considering buying a 5.0 set of Mirage OMD's (15's, 5's, C1). I am wondering if there is anyone here that has pre/post experience with biamping the OMD-15's? What difference did you notice when you biamped these?

Just for fun, I've tried passive bi-amping with unused SB amplifiers on an AVR. A lot, if not most receivers have this capability now. Long story short, I could not hear or measure any difference. You may find, after plowing through countless threads on this subject, that passive bi-amping yields no or insignificant results according to many industry experts.

Active bi-amping is another beast altogether and requires, amongst other things, removing the crossovers in your speakers and the implementation of external crossovers and power amplifiers. If so inclined, I encourage you to set aside a few months to read the spirited debates on the subject.

2) I have two nice 12" subs that I run simultaneously. Given that I have these subs, am I gaining anything by putting the OMD-15's in the mix, or am I just as well off by getting all OMD-5's (with C1 for center)? Would the 15's still add a desired character to the sound in this situation? Need your opinions!

A quality subwoofer or two -- properly calibrated -- will, in my opinion, almost always add to any system. They are specifically designed to play LF and will do so, much better and with more authority than most tower speakers. Consider also that the optimum place for your Mirage speakers is not close to the ideal location to reproduce low frequencies. The OMD-15 may have better mid-bass response than an OMD-5 and they have a speaker stand already included. They're also nice to look at.

Appreciatively,

Devlon

Hope this helps.

Hey Mirage OMD Owners, I need your advice!

I basically have two questions:

1) I am considering buying a 5.0 set of Mirage OMD's (15's, 5's, C1). I am wondering if there is anyone here that has pre/post experience with biamping the OMD-15's? What difference did you notice when you biamped these?

2) I have two nice 12" subs that I run simultaneously. Given that I have these subs, am I gaining anything by putting the OMD-15's in the mix, or am I just as well off by getting all OMD-5's (with C1 for center)? Would the 15's still add a desired character to the sound in this situation? Need your opinions!

Appreciatively,

Devlon

I agree with WhskyTangoFoxtrt's number 2 response. I have had towers and bookshelf speakers, and larger speakers generally provide a bigger sound and can provide more sound for larger rooms. If you have a small room, then the OMD5s will be more than adequate. If you have a larger space, then get the OMD15s.

I currently have two OMD5s for my fronts with a sub. They rival my full size Infinity Beta 50 speakers with the amount of sound they put out. They blend well with a sub because of the strong mid range they produce. I have the center on order. Now having said this, I am still getting the OMD15s because I have always preferred the sound of towers. I figure since the OMD5s work so well, the OMD15s will be more of a good thing since it has more drivers and plays down even lower. I hope this helps.

Hey WhskyTangoFoxtrt, and thanks for the response! In talking directly with Polk Audio (I own a complete surround sound set of Polk Lsi's) they explained that by biamping (removing the connecting speaker terminal tines on the back of the speaker) and running separate power to each pair of terminals and thereby giving direct power individually to each tweeter and woofer would have a definite sonic advantage. I don't fully grasp all that the technician said, but it was something like by removing the these tines, it takes one order of the crossover out of the equation. This still leaves in place the capacitors that are frequency range limiters for the tweeters. He said something like..... any time that you pass power and signal through circuitry, when the power and signal comes out the other side it is somewhat diminished and degraded. Power going through the crossover causes resistance, and resistance helps to create heat and distortion. By putting power directly to the components, and bypassing the first phase of this crossover, there will be a noticeable difference in sound. He said this is particularly true with power hungry 4ohm speakers like my Polk Lsi's. I really shouldn't even being talking about this I guess because I can't remember all he said, and I'm sure I haven't got some of this right. It was all new for me to absorb. But I think I am in the ballpark somewhere. So, other than the regular way to hook up speakers there seems to be also the options:
1) Biwiring
2) Biamping (passive)
3) Biamping (active) [the way I think you were talking about]

Yeah, talking about speaker positioning and bass response circles me back to the Polk Lsi's. Their bass response is stunning given their size. Unique low frequency porting technology they have. I would hope I wouldn't loose too much bass giving them up for the Mirages.

Again thanks WhskyTangoFoxtrt!!

Thanks NETPCTECH for your input!

To recap here:

I agree with WhskyTangoFoxtrt's number 2 response. I have had towers and bookshelf speakers, and larger speakers generally provide a bigger sound and can provide more sound for larger rooms. If you have a small room, then the OMD5s will be more than adequate. If you have a larger space, then get the OMD15s.

(Currently have 3 speaker systems at home: 1) Wharfedale Diamond 9.6 (4 way towers) Diamond 9.CM center and Diamond DFS surrounds 2) Polk Lsi9, Lsic, LsiFX's 3) 5.0 Mirage Nanosats. Each is in a separate room)

Because of the Nanosats I have become fascinated with the Mirage OMD's. I have the room for the OMDs, but I will either have to let go of the Wharfedales or the Polks. I had already made up my mind to try biamping before I got the Nanosats. I am kinda disappointed that if I get the OMD's that I will only be able to biamp the OMD-15's. I'm just wondering if biamping the OMD-15's would yield an even better sound. I guess this is part of the way I'm psyching myself to let go of the cash for another set of speakers!

Thanks for your response!
I currently have two OMD5s for my fronts with a sub. They rival my full size Infinity Beta 50 speakers with the amount of sound they put out. They blend well with a sub because of the strong mid range they produce. I have the center on order. Now having said this, I am still getting the OMD15s because I have always preferred the sound of towers. I figure since the OMD5s work so well, the OMD15s will be more of a good thing since it has more drivers and plays down even lower. I hope this helps.
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I am guess I'm the one that kinda started this whole Emotiva thing indirectly because of asking Monkuboy what he powered his Mirages with which was Emotiva. I am new to AVS and had no idea that by the mere mentioning of that name that such a chain reaction would occur. Yes, I understand this thread was about Mirage originally, but I am glad the conversation digressed to Emotiva, especially as it concerned the UMC-1. Forgive my reopening of this original Mirage conversation about the UMC-1, but I value the opinion of you guys that commented above and want your opinions on other processors as I have eliminated the UMC-1 from my wish list, at least for now.

Are there any processors around the 1k price range that are worth considering? I know the Marantz AV7005 is about to hit, and it seems it is going to be a very competitive piece of gear, but it is hovering around 1400.00. What about Adcom, Denon, Interga, others etc.,etc? Is the multi band eq (15 is it?) per speaker unique to processors like the UMC-1, or are there others that have that as well? Also, since I am running two subs, is just "Y-ing" the single LFE output ok on a 7.1 processor, or is there an true advantage to a 7.2? Is there a particular processor/amp that is popular with the Mirages? I know at one time one of the techs at Polk suggested the HK AVR's. He said many of them there at Polk liked the Lsi/HK AVR combination and thought this make the Polks sound really good.....so, I thought this thinking might also apply to Mirages. Chime back in if you will.

Appreciatively,

Devlon

That seems a little harsh. The OS3 line sounds pretty good.

And there's something to be said for giving the customer what they want. Trying to sell them something else is usually a recipe for liquidation. Small speakers that make some compromises on audio are what people want, and it shouldn't be that hard to understand why. For most people, they can get 98% of the enjoyment from a speaker that's 25% the size of what speakers used to be.


I'm sure they do, but when you look at the lineup for Mirage that seems to be the level of their aspiration now. You can't compare the OS3 to the OMD28 for example because they are leagues apart in build and output.

That's the sad part. Who cares if most people cannot afford the size or price of a high-end Mirage product? This isn't a type of product that should be limited by the reach of the general consumer. Audio speakers are a luxury product not a necessary one and pushing the envelope of design and power is the mark of a company that wants to be recognized for it's technology and aspirations. Otherwise you just have a competent but dull brand.

The vast majority of car buyers will never be able to afford or need a Nissan GT-R for example, but it's presence amongst the average consumer-level cars in the rest of the Nissan lineup gives Nissan an extra level of cache and prestige that allows them to compete with other companies that are usually in a different league.

Same applies to speaker brands. Without a high-end product Mirage drop down as a competitor to more respected manufacturers because they don't have a product that competes at that level.

I'm sure they do, but when you look at the lineup for Mirage that seems to be the level of their aspiration now. You can't compare the OS3 to the OMD28 for example because they are leagues apart in build and output.

That's the sad part. Who cares if most people cannot afford the size or price of a high-end Mirage product? This isn't a type of product that should be limited by the reach of the general consumer. Audio speakers are a luxury product not a necessary one and pushing the envelope of design and power is the mark of a company that wants to be recognized for it's technology and aspirations. Otherwise you just have a competent but dull brand.

The vast majority of car buyers will never be able to afford or need a Nissan GT-R for example, but it's presence amongst the average consumer-level cars in the rest of the Nissan lineup gives Nissan an extra level of cache and prestige that allows them to compete with other companies that are usually in a different league.

Same applies to speaker brands. Without a high-end product Mirage drop down as a competitor to more respected manufacturers because they don't have a product that competes at that level.

Couldn't agree more. They need a new flagship speaker line in place of the OMD line which I love so much. Really hope they revamp soon.

I originally was considering getting 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1. I have two 12" Digital Subs that I was intending to use with these. However, I have read several posts that with the OMD-28s a sub is really not needed. Other posts suggested, "get the best you can afford because you will always wonder if you shouldn't have gone the extra and purchased the 28s!" Well, I have been thinking about that. But, I can't afford the OMD-28s without selling these subs. So what do you guys think?: 1) Go with the 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1 and use them with the subs, or 2) Sell the subs and go with the OMD-28s. Given I have the room for these, and adequately sized room to put them in which would you choose?


Note: One of the things that made me consider that OMD-15s in the mix the most is that is seems to me there is more continuity in the driver match with the 15s, 5's and C1 vs OMD-28s, C2, 5s. Also, one of the things that I liked about the 15s is that is also has a forward firing midrange driver that matches the other drivers in the system. It seems then, in a way, that it is a hybrid between direct (monopole) and omnipolar speaker cabinet design, and this may be a superior design.

(2) OMD-28's by a mile...

Depends on how much use the subs get IMO. I have not heard the 28s, but for movies I just can't live without a solid sub.

I guess I'd still do the 28s, and pick up a sub later if needed.

I originally was considering getting 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1. I have two 12" Digital Subs that I was intending to use with these. However, I have read several posts that with the OMD-28s a sub is really not needed.

How will you reproduce the LFE channel (.1)? Without a subwoofer, you will have the C1 -- which handles the most material on any soundtrack -- and the OMD-5s trying to play low frequencies that these speakers are incapable of reproducing.

Mirage OMD speakers -- including the 28s -- by design, usually require that they are placed a little more into the room than most speakers. While this helps with imaging and sound stage, amongst other things, this is not the optimal location to reproduce smooth; deep bass. This is best reproduced in corners farthest from an opening. Your two subs with 12" woofers can be placed around your room to smooth out the bass or coupled to gain a possible 6 dB increase in response. I believe that the OMD-28s have 8" woofers and at 87 dB sensitivity, they do require a fair amount of amplification -- if you utilize them sans subwoofer.

Note: One of the things that made me consider that OMD-15s in the mix the most is that is seems to me there is more continuity in the driver match with the 15s, 5's and C1 vs OMD-28s, C2, 5s. Also, one of the things that I liked about the 15s is that is also has a forward firing midrange driver that matches the other drivers in the system. It seems then, in a way, that it is a hybrid between direct (monopole) and omnipolar speaker cabinet design, and this may be a superior design.

(2) OMD-28's by a mile...

In a head-to-head comparison, the OMD-28s will have an advantage against the 15s in bass response. The combination of a the OMD-15s and a good sub has many advantages over the 28s in my opinion. :)

Quick, meaningless observation. Having read this entire thread, I feel a certain wistfulness. In another time and another place, with my budget I might have gone with the OMD-15 with OMD-C1 and OMD-5 surrounds in a 5.1 HT application. I don't think the performance/price ratio can be ignored. Alas, getting any sort of tower speakers is just not in the cards. In my house, they would wind up being very expensive scratching posts for cats and very expensive urinals for dogs. It's the simple truth. And that's just not going to happen. I wound up putting together a 7.1 system with OMD-5s fronts and surrounds, and OMD-C1 center and dual subwoofers. I'm pretty satisfied. /End quick, meaningless observation.

Knowing that the application for me, personally, would be 99.9% home theater. It just seems like the OMD-28s would be wasted potential. Fantastic if money is no object, but otherwise it's money best spent elsewhere. Unfortunately, with these speakers only available online, I'll probably never get a chance to listen and judge for myself.

I wanted to thank my fellow forum members for sharing their experiences and advice here. I went with the Mirage for aesthetic reasons primarily. I was looking for small satellites and the Nanosats and MXs were really the only choices that I could audition locally. Based on comments in this thread, I took a leap of faith and upgraded to the OMD-5s even though it was a bit more of a stretch on my budget and the speakers were a little larger than I was looking for. But I'm very glad that I took that leap. Thanks again.

I originally was considering getting 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1. I have two 12" Digital Subs that I was intending to use with these. However, I have read several posts that with the OMD-28s a sub is really not needed. Other posts suggested, "get the best you can afford because you will always wonder if you shouldn't have gone the extra and purchased the 28s!" Well, I have been thinking about that. But, I can't afford the OMD-28s without selling these subs. So what do you guys think?: 1) Go with the 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1 and use them with the subs, or 2) Sell the subs and go with the OMD-28s. Given I have the room for these, and adequately sized room to put them in which would you choose?


Note: One of the things that made me consider that OMD-15s in the mix the most is that is seems to me there is more continuity in the driver match with the 15s, 5's and C1 vs OMD-28s, C2, 5s. Also, one of the things that I liked about the 15s is that is also has a forward firing midrange driver that matches the other drivers in the system. It seems then, in a way, that it is a hybrid between direct (monopole) and omnipolar speaker cabinet design, and this may be a superior design.

According to previous post and reviews, the OMD-28s have very good bass and at times can have to much. In my opinion, a good speaker/sub combo can out perform the single OMD28s if the speakers cannot be placed in ideal locations. If i recall correctly, the OMD28s need to be placed a good distance form the walls in order to perform correctly. Loading up a corner with a OMD28 may result in to much bass boom. A sub on the other hand can be moved around generally speaking.

Having said all of that, I still would love to have a pair of OMD-28s. I agree with what you said about having the same size drivers. Manufacturers tune there speakers and the OMD28s are made to go with the OMDC2 and OMDR. Hope this helps.

Thanks for your replies about this. The replies about the advantages of separate subs makes the most sense to me. It has made me think deeper about this. I could be stuck if there was a problem with the bass frequencies in the room,( i.e., EQ, standing waves, boominess, etc., ) and I wasn't able to move the 28's to a satisfactory position to correct it. On the other hand, with separate subs I can move the subs in a place independent of the tower locations for the best sound if needed. Separate bass EQ would then be possible with the subs, but is not possible on the 28's as far as I can see. Also, my subs have their own room correction EQ, and I had forgotten how important that is. I think I was just lusting over the OMD-28's so hard that I had a momentary lack of reason (there's a song in there somewhere, lol). Thanks all for your input!

Thanks for your replies about this. The replies about the advantages of separate subs makes the most sense to me. It has made me think deeper about this. I could be stuck if there was a problem with the bass frequencies in the room,( i.e., EQ, standing waves, boominess, etc., ) and I wasn't able to move the 28's to a satisfactory position to correct it. On the other hand, with separate subs I can move the subs in a place independent of the tower locations for the best sound if needed. Separate bass EQ would then be possible with the subs, but is not possible on the 28's as far as I can see. Also, my subs have their own room correction EQ, and I had forgotten how important that is. I think I was just lusting over the OMD-28's so hard that I had a momentary lack of reason (there's a song in there somewhere, lol). Thanks all for your input!

Good thinkin! While larger floorstanders are a sight to behold and sound wicked when setup properly with lots of room, I think the most flexible option is what you suggest.

Ugh...seems like nobody wants the 28's in this thread lol!

Ugh...seems like nobody wants the 28's in this thread lol!

I would love to buy the 28s, but when I did the math I couldn't justify it. I could get two 15s, one C1, and two 5s for the price of a single 28. Hard to pass that up, but when bonus time rolls around next year maybe I'll consider the 28s.

Hello All,

Finally jumped in on the Vanns goodness and went with ODM-5's all around. I am looking at also finally wall mounting my 52" LCD along with all the OMD-5's. The rears will be inverted on the back wall of course, but I was wondering if there are any sonic compromises with mounting the R/C/L inverted above the LCD as well? I have them on stands now and they seem to throw sound out uniformly as promised. Have others mounted the front array above their display with good results? It is not a huge room with standard ceilings and about a 9 foot viewing distance.

Hello All,

Finally jumped in on the Vanns goodness and went with ODM-5's all around. I am looking at also finally wall mounting my 52" LCD along with all the OMD-5's. The rears will be inverted on the back wall of course, but I was wondering if there are any sonic compromises with mounting the R/C/L inverted above the LCD as well? I have them on stands now and they seem to throw sound out uniformly as promised. Have others mounted the front array above their display with good results? It is not a huge room with standard ceilings and about a 9 foot viewing distance.

I also have the OMD-5s with the OMD-C1 on order. I cannot answer your question, but I have a question for you. What stands are you using for your OMD-5s. I need to put my rears on stands, but need them to be secure since I have kids. Thanks and enjoy the surround sound.:)

The rears are actually on some bookshelves I have on either side of my couch, so those are not on stands. Part of why I want to go with wall mounting is that it seems to be hard to find the right stands for these. Many of the top plates are too big (corners sticking out). My fronts are on some of the stands that Ascend sells for their 340/Sierras that I had around. The OMD-5's look goofey on top of them now but hopefully it is short term. There are stands by Wood Technology that have a 5.5" by 5.5" top plate that would work I think. The issue for you might be that they are not column type, sand-fillable stands. Heavier stands with museum wax may be a better, more stable solution with little ones on the loose! Best of luck.

Hello All,

Finally jumped in on the Vanns goodness and went with ODM-5's all around. I am looking at also finally wall mounting my 52" LCD along with all the OMD-5's. The rears will be inverted on the back wall of course, but I was wondering if there are any sonic compromises with mounting the R/C/L inverted above the LCD as well? I have them on stands now and they seem to throw sound out uniformly as promised. Have others mounted the front array above their display with good results? It is not a huge room with standard ceilings and about a 9 foot viewing distance.

Hi Dermott,

When I was on the phone with a Vann's rep talking about the mirages, "positioning" came up. He said that the founder of Mirage (forgot the name) inverts his two L/R OMD-5's, and the C1, mounting these three on the ceiling about 3ft in front of the TV Screen which is wall mounted. To make sure I understood I asked the rep again because I was surprised at the placement and distance of the mounting scheme here. He repeated that the 5's were left and right of the TV screen, with the C1 center of it, and all three were about 3ft from the back wall. He said to him (founder) the Mirages sounded best this way, that the center was the most effective positioned here, and that there was no compromise in sound in not having the speakers on the same plane (all even across) with the TV screen. Thought this was interesting. Just thought I would pass this along.

Just to clarify above "by no compromise in sound" he asserted that there was not a problem in time delay of sound to TV screen because of the speakers being 3ft forward of the screen.

Need some help here. I am currently trying to help a guy on another forum (head-fi.com) with some speakers. He has a 600 budget for front and center setup right now. I have OS3 setup (towers, center, and sats) and really like it. I am suggesting he go with the OMD5's at Vanns. Does anyone know how well they would work as a center. I told him that the center in that line would only break his budget about 60 bucks but he is pretty set on 600. It has been awhile since I personally heard these, but I remember really liking them. I am thinking when he gets more money he could possibly (if he is lucky) score some towers and move the OMD5's to the rear.

Need some help here. I am currently trying to help a guy on another forum (head-fi.com) with some speakers. He has a 600 budget for front and center setup right now. I have OS3 setup (towers, center, and sats) and really like it. I am suggesting he go with the OMD5's at Vanns. Does anyone know how well they would work as a center. I told him that the center in that line would only break his budget about 60 bucks but he is pretty set on 600. It has been awhile since I personally heard these, but I remember really liking them. I am thinking when he gets more money he could possibly (if he is lucky) score some towers and move the OMD5's to the rear.

The OMD-5 will make a fine center speaker. In some respects, it would even probably be preferred. I encourage you to take a little time to search this thread as this comes up quite often.

Good luck. :)

What do you think is the better center channel? The OMD C-1 or the HDT-F? I have a pair of OM-6 fronts and I want to match the best I can.

Hi Dermott,

When I was on the phone with a Vann's rep talking about the mirages, "positioning" came up. He said that the founder of Mirage (forgot the name) inverts his two L/R OMD-5's, and the C1, mounting these three on the ceiling about 3ft in front of the TV Screen which is wall mounted. To make sure I understood I asked the rep again because I was surprised at the placement and distance of the mounting scheme here. He repeated that the 5's were left and right of the TV screen, with the C1 center of it, and all three were about 3ft from the back wall. He said to him (founder) the Mirages sounded best this way, that the center was the most effective positioned here, and that there was no compromise in sound in not having the speakers on the same plane (all even across) with the TV screen. Thought this was interesting. Just thought I would pass this along.This makes a lot of sense to me. They fire at a much better angle mounted on the ceiling than on stands, unless you can tilt them forward on stands - and even then it doesn't work as well. And having them away from the back wall puts them that much closer to the listener.

And, that much reduces the reflected sound from the side and back walls that they make so much of. Kind of ironic. But I think that fuller sound works better at first for some people - so it's a good marketing tool for new sales - but if you want clarity, then you want as little reflected sound as possible.

It wouldn't really matter that the speakers are not in the same plane as the TV. What matters is that the speakers are the same distance from the listener. Or, that any differences in distance are corrected by the receiver. Mostly for loudness. I'm not sure that for HT the timing differences would matter, unless the distance difference is large, but it's easy to set the distances anyway.

Bantam, If you don't get an answer here, you might want to get in touch with Mirage. They usually respond. It may be that an OM C2 or OM C3 or an MCsi or something would be a better match to the drivers in those than the centers you mention.

The owners manual groups it with the OMC2 and OMC3:
http://www.miragespeakers.com/images/download/428.aspx

Here's a review with an MCsi:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_4_4/miragem6.html

Fun to read about the OM6:
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/1197mirage/

What do you think is the better center channel? The OMD C-1 or the HDT-F? I have a pair of OM-6 fronts and I want to match the best I can.

Hi Bantam,

Since the HDT-F has been discontinued, it may be difficult to find one to even try it. The OMD's are Mirages flagship line and are now sold at vanns.com for prices below Mirages other lessor quality speakers....at least for now. So, my thinking is that anything in the OMD line would be the best you can get from Mirage. There is some discussion whether the OMD-5 vs the OMD-C1 is better for a center. On the one hand, the OMD-C1 was specifically designed as a center. On the other hand, there are many of the opinion that having the exact same speaker for the front L/R and center is the best. There are positive arguments for both. You'll just need to follow those discussions and decide for yourself. Mirages phone number if you want to call them direct about it is 1-866-428-2122. Hope this helps!

Fun to read about the OM6:
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/1197mirage/

I heard them at a dealer, and they had a nice sound. They were being tested
with Aragon and Bryston amps.

I had three omd5s as fronts and a center and upgraded to a c1. Not that I wasn't happy with the omd5 as a center but I wanted the clearest dialog possible and plan on upgrading to omd15 as l&r.

If I wasn't upgrading I would honestly rather have saved the money. Audessey configured the c1 at -3 db to compensate for it's size.

Either way, you can't go wrong.

Bantam (& islandman) - FWIW I have heard both the (older) OM series and the (more recent) OMD series in the same room, and while an OMD center with OM L and R would be a perfectly good match for some people, there is a difference between the sound of the two. (We may have discussed this earlier.)

It depends on whether it's worth it to you to hunt for a used speaker to get a little better match. And, maybe, how long you think you are going to use these speakers.

Buzzy,
Are you suggesting that the HDT-F would be the better match or are you referring to an another older speaker?

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Hi Dermott,

When I was on the phone with a Vann's rep talking about the mirages, "positioning" came up. He said that the founder of Mirage (forgot the name) inverts his two L/R OMD-5's, and the C1, mounting these three on the ceiling about 3ft in front of the TV Screen which is wall mounted. To make sure I understood I asked the rep again because I was surprised at the placement and distance of the mounting scheme here. He repeated that the 5's were left and right of the TV screen, with the C1 center of it, and all three were about 3ft from the back wall. He said to him (founder) the Mirages sounded best this way, that the center was the most effective positioned here, and that there was no compromise in sound in not having the speakers on the same plane (all even across) with the TV screen. Thought this was interesting. Just thought I would pass this along.

I think what I am to take away from this is that by placing all of the speakers inverted above the screen will not be a compromise. I am not really looking to mount on the ceiling and it is probably more likely that the founders room is larger than the space I have to work with anyway :( I was hoping for some more input from those who actually have them mounted on the same wall as the TV, just above it.

Buzzy,
Are you suggesting that the HDT-F would be the better match or are you referring to an another older speaker?

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.Seems like you missed the post a few back, about the OMC2, OMC3, or MSi.

I think what I am to take away from this is that by placing all of the speakers inverted above the screen will not be a compromise. I am not really looking to mount on the ceiling and it is probably more likely that the founders room is larger than the space I have to work with anyway :( I was hoping for some more input from those who actually have them mounted on the same wall as the TV, just above it.There have been a number of people with that setup. It works well. And for most of the speakers, Mirage describes that option in the manual.

The main thing is to try not to mount them close to a side wall if you can avoid it. Aim the left and right toward the listening position if you can.

I think what I am to take away from this is that by placing all of the speakers inverted above the screen will not be a compromise. I am not really looking to mount on the ceiling and it is probably more likely that the founders room is larger than the space I have to work with anyway :( I was hoping for some more input from those who actually have them mounted on the same wall as the TV, just above it.

I have my OMD-C1 mounted upside down above my TV. The sound is much better than when I had it below the screen. Hope this helps.

http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp173/Bluvette1/DSC02811.jpg

I need some suggestions on a powering some OMD Mirages. I am on the edge of ordering:2x15's, C1, 2x5's.

I am considering the Emotiva UPA-7 (7x125w @ 8 ohm), or the UPA (5x125w @ 8 ohm)

If I biamp the 15's I will need the UPA-7. If I don't biamp I can save about 170.00 and get the UPA-5.

The million dollar question here is will I gain enough sound quality in biamping the 15's that I should get the 7 channel power amp? Or, will I not hear enough difference in doing that and should just go full range on the 15's and save the money and buythe 5 channel amp?

(Also, there is another option if I go full range and not biamp the 15's, and that is, get the Emotiva XPA-5 (5x200w @ 8 ohm). Would this extra power make even more of a difference soundwise, or is it just overkill?)

What's your opinion?

I need some suggestions on a powering some OMD Mirages. I am on the edge of ordering:2x15's, C1, 2x5's.

I am considering the Emotiva UPA-7 (7x125w @ 8 ohm), or the UPA (5x125w @ 8 ohm)

If I biamp the 15's I will need the UPA-7. If I don't biamp I can save about 170.00 and get the UPA-5.

The million dollar question here is will I gain enough sound quality in biamping the 15's that I should get the 7 channel power amp? Or, will I not hear enough difference in doing that and should just go full range on the 15's and save the money and buythe 5 channel amp?

(Also, there is another option if I go full range and not biamp the 15's, and that is, get the Emotiva XPA-5 (5x200w @ 8 ohm). Would this extra power make even more of a difference soundwise, or is it just overkill?)

What's your opinion?

Even though Bluvette is in a better position to answer this, I can give you my limited experience. I am a strong believer in giving speakers good clean power. I have used many AVRs that due not reach their advertised power rating. When I finally switched to separates, I was blown away by the difference. So far I have the OMD-C1 and 2 x OMD5s connected to a Emotiva XPA-5 (I will be ordering the OMD-15s in the future). These lower ohm speakers are a much bigger load on my amp than my previous speakers. They work better with a high current amp like the Emotiva. I biamped my previous speakers with good results, but upgrading to a more powerful amp was even better.:) I hope this helps.

I just got my Mirage OMD-5's and OMD-C1 .. right now I have them getto setup with the wires everywhere (Fieancea is going NUTZ) but i have a electrician comming in a week or so so I can hide the wires and mount the speakers.. right now i have then on my coffee tables about 3 feet off the ground and my center is right under my tv on a mantle.. The problem is that i have to keep the grill off the venter and the tweeter hadle thing is about 1/8 inch from the bottom of the LED LCD TV. so half the speaker is aimed into the bottom of the TV, is this going to cause a problem?

I am runnin 7.1. I have my (4) OMD-5 and my OMD-C1 hooked up with a Emotiva XPA-5 and my (2) OMD-15 front L&R to a Emotiva XPA-2. Could not be happier with this setup works awesome. The speakers perform much better than they did with just my AVR, Yammy RXV 863.

I hear everybody about the power (thanks NETPCTECH, and Bluvette). With Christmas coming, the latest Emotiva Podcast saying there may a price increase soon, taxes do at the end of the year, man....I feel that the pressure is on! I guess I'm trying to be a little thrifty with all things considered.

Anyway, more thinking on this. The UPA-7 averages 125w @ 8 ohms; 185w @ 4 ohms. At 6 ohms (which the OMD's are) this averages to 155w. If I biamp the OMD-15's with the UPA-7, they would actually be getting 310w per cab. On the XPA 3 and 5 series it looks like the math puts these at about 250w @ 6 ohms per channel if cab's are run full range.

It seems, on paper anyway with the UPA-7, that the 15's would benefit from both biamping, and increased power (am I missing anything here?). However, there is still the question in my mind that the 3 channels left at 155W per channel is adequate for the C1 and each of the 5's? I listen at low to medium volumes levels on TV, and Music. Much louder on the volume for HT if that helps. Opinions?

Regards,

Devlon

I hear everybody about the power (thanks NETPCTECH, and Bluvette). With Christmas coming, the latest Emotiva Podcast saying there may a price increase soon, taxes do at the end of the year, man....I feel that the pressure is on! I guess I'm trying to be a little thrifty with all things considered.

Anyway, more thinking on this. The UPA-7 averages 125w @ 8 ohms; 185w @ 4 ohms. At 6 ohms (which the OMD's are) this averages to 155w. If I biamp the OMD-15's with the UPA-7, they would actually be getting 310w per cab. On the XPA 3 and 5 series it looks like the math puts these at about 250w @ 6 ohms per channel if cab's are run full range.

It seems, on paper anyway with the UPA-7, that the 15's would benefit from both biamping, and increased power (am I missing anything here?). However, there is still the question in my mind that the 3 channels left at 155W per channel is adequate for the C1 and each of the 5's? I listen at low to medium volumes levels on TV, and Music. Much louder on the volume for HT if that helps. Opinions?

Regards,

Devlon

I'm afraid you don't have an understanding of bi-amplification or how it works.

I'm afraid you don't have an understanding of bi-amplification or how it works.

That maybe so. I would appreciate you educating me a little more on HT biamping. I come from a different biamping background. But here is what I do know:

I owned a music store for 21 years, and one of the things that we did was to provide sound for local concert and outdoor events. A system that we liked to use back then was a 3 way system comprised of JBL scoops for the low end, Perkins 2560 cabs for the mids, and Community Light and Sound horns for the highs. We liked the sound of Crown power amps for the mids and highs, and Carver PM 1.5's for the lows. We used a Rane AC 22S for the active x-over (crossover). Active or external electronic x-overs are the only way to go as most PA cabinets do not have crossovers at all. Each venue had different acoustics, so the flexibility of an active x-over was a must.

Using an active x-over in a HT situation is not impossible, but it's not feasible. You would have to literally gut the speakers of their capacitors, resistors, coils, etc. ....well the entire x-over and all of it's components would have to go. Then you would have the expense of not only separate power amps, but the external (active) x-overs as well. Then would be the process of careful calibration in matching the x-over points, and slopes on your unit with the frequency range of each component within the speaker cabinet. Power can become more dangerous this way and a blown tweeter is all to easy to do. Although for most speaker cabinets the sound could be much improved.....as for the majority of us doing it, it's just too much trouble, and not worth it.

Next comes passive biamping. Passive biamping is not true biamping (active) where frequencies are divided before the power amps, and does nothing to affect the full frequency range coming from the power amps. The speaker cab is still getting the full frequency range as before, the woofer and tweeter still have their frequency dividing components in place, but by removing the interconnect tine between the four terminal posts it removes one part of the x-over, and this does affect energy, and affecting energy can affect sound. How so?

Passive x-over networks found in, say, HT 2 way speakers, waste an enormous amount of power. This often complex network is made up of large coils, chokes, capacitors and resistors. The circuit splits the full range signal into different frequencies (low, and high) appropriate for the different drivers in the speaker. Further, a x-over network compensates for efficiency differences in the drivers; woofers demand more power than midrange drivers which in turn demand more power than tweeters, etc. Further, each of the drivers has different sensitivities, with some requiring far more (of far less) power than other drivers in the same speaker system. In a passive crossover, the excess power not required is dumped into resistors and burned off as heat. This makes for an incredible waste of power.

Now back to biamping. With the speaker terminal connecting tines removed on the OMD-15,s we have two choices on the way we can biamp with the speaker cables: Horizontal (or standard), or Vertical.

(See next post)

Horizontal or Standard Passive Biamping:

In this standard configuration, you use one amp to reproduce the high frequencies and one to reproduce the low frequencies. In other words, one power amp section of the UPA-7 would power the positive and negative of the tweeter in the speaker cabinet, and another power amp section would power the positive and negative of the woofer, of course, in the same cabinet. Although not frequency range of components in this standard passive biamping scheme, many claim that there is more clarity and detail in areas such as dynamic contrasts, individual voicing of instruments and deep-bass performance as well as providing more efficient power to the speaker cabinet.

See next post

Vertical Biamping:

In this way of biamping you would use a Y adapter to go from the "left out" of the processor to both "left and right ins" of a power amp section, and another Y adapter to the "right out" of the same processor channel to the both the "left and right ins" of another power amp section. See next post-keep running out of room

Supposedly this method has a distinct advantage over the standard configuration. Cross-talk (the tendency for one channel to "bleed through" to the other and thereby cause distortion) in the power amplifiers has effectively been eliminated. Both channels of each amplifier see identical information, so even if there is any kind of spurious leak-through of audio between left and right, because it is the same signal, it cannot create harmonic or inter-modulation distortions. Many claim this offers the highest potential for left and right separation available from a biamplified setup.

My friend Eric owns Home Theater Solutions here, a high audio dealer/installer. His main speaker line is B&W. When I asked him about passive biamping he quoted B&W in saying "that if the funds were available, definitely passive biamp!" This is all I know at this time about biamping. I have never heard a comparison with/without biamping, so I don't really know from experience which way is really better? I am still wondering from my first question about powering the OMD set if using the UPA-7 and biamping the 15's would sound better than running full range with the XPA-5?

I have a Mirage OMD setup consisting of 4 x OMD5 and OMD C1. I noticed that the left woofer of the C1 was constantly buzzing. I rang Mirage and told them this and they offered to send a replacement woofer. I gave them the part no. as I had taken the woofer out. The part no on the woofer was 5DR 63176. The Mirage rep said the part no for the woofer of the C1 is
5DR 63174. The '6' is the woofer for the OMD 15. I then checked the other woofer and the part number on that was also 63176 (and not 63174 as it should be). So either the were incorrectly labelled or they are the wrong woofers...they are exactly the same size so pretty easy for someone to make a mistake. I was sent a new woofer (part no.5DR 63174) and now have one of each in my C1. From the specifications there is a difference in both crossover and frequency response between the two parts. I'm no audiophile and cant really tell if there is a problem but seeing as though it is under warranty would I be better off getting the other woofer replaced as well? Does having slightly different woofers make a diference? A layman would suggest you might as well but I really want to know from someone who understands technical aspects of this. Thanks.

I have a Mirage OMD setup consisting of 4 x OMD5 and OMD C1. I noticed that the left woofer of the C1 was constantly buzzing. I rang Mirage and told them this and they offered to send a replacement woofer. I gave them the part no. as I had taken the woofer out. The part no on the woofer was 5DR 63176. The Mirage rep said the part no for the woofer of the C1 is
5DR 63174. The '6' is the woofer for the OMD 15. I then checked the other woofer and the part number on that was also 63176 (and not 63174 as it should be). So either the were incorrectly labelled or they are the wrong woofers...they are exactly the same size so pretty easy for someone to make a mistake. I was sent a new woofer (part no.5DR 63174) and now have one of each in my C1. From the specifications there is a difference in both crossover and frequency response between the two parts. I'm no audiophile and cant really tell if there is a problem but seeing as though it is under warranty would I be better off getting the other woofer replaced as well? Does having slightly different woofers make a diference? A layman would suggest you might as well but I really want to know from someone who understands technical aspects of this. Thanks.

Hey Rinbren,

I would just call Mirage directly at 1-866-428-2122 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting**************1-866-428-2122******end_of_the_skype_highlighting and ask. It's either a different speaker, or the same speaker with a part# change. Either way, I would call to find out. Good Luck!

rinbren, if you're the kind of person who's going to take apart a speaker, then it's probably worth calling Mirage, as suggested.

The crossover is driven by some electronics inside the speaker, and the frequency response has a lot to do with the cabinet - but there are other ways in which the design of the driver might vary, given that the cabinet sizes are so different between the OMDC1 and the OMD15.

Hello everyone, i have been reading all the forums for years but this is the first time i have posted anything. I purchased some older Mirage speakers earlier this week off of Craigslist and I am having a hard time finding very much info on all of the speakers and subs. I ended up getting a pair of 890i's, a pair of 590i's, a pair of mbs's with the stands, a mc-1 center channel, a bps-100 sub, and a frx-s10 sub. I was able to get all of these for 300.00 which i think is one hell of a deal and there isn't a scratch on them they look like they just came out of the box. The bps-100 isn't working which the owner informed me was the case. Just wondering if you guys could help me out on this one? He purchased them at tweeter and the sub quit working after a week so they gave him a credit and he ended up getting the frx-s10 and they told him to just toss the bps-100. i was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction in diagnosing the issue? I do have some knowledge on electrical systems and think it is probably something simple. I was wondering if anyone has had the same issue with one of their subs could give me some pointers on troubleshooting? My other question is could i use an external amp say a emotive monoblock amp to bypass the internal amp on the sub? Thanks for any help.

Setup:

Samsung 42" Plasma
Nanosat 5.1
Denon 1609

Plus..dvr, xbox 360, etc.

Any Nanosat owners that can recommend a good next upgrade without breaking the bank?

Is there a more dedicated center channel that would work better? Upgrade of the sub? More power?




This was an old post of mine...Since then I have added a BIC H-100 subwoofer. What a great upgrade that was for "cheap".

I feel the setup needs a stronger center at this point. Id like the vocals to be more pronounced. Some replies to this post mentioned getting an Omnisat V2 or OS3 center. Anyone know where one of these can be picked up for a good deal? No way my wife would be cool with spending $400 on a center channel speaker..since the OS3 is all Ive come across so far.

If Im spending $400, Id probably sell my current TV an upgrade it..so that kind of my thought process right now. I think a better center channel would be the best upgrade at this point though.

I was holding off on the OMD-15's for the possibility of a Black Friday deal at Vanns.. and good thing, they're listed at $399/each for the next couple of days! It seems like their site's been down off and on throughout the day, but I was able to make the purchase through Amazon. I just wanted to pass this along! Hopefully I'm not the only one who caves on this unnecessary upgrade :)

I was holding off on the OMD-15's for the possibility of a Black Friday deal at Vanns.. and good thing, they're listed at $399/each for the next couple of days! It seems like their site's been down off and on throughout the day, but I was able to make the purchase through Amazon. I just wanted to pass this along! Hopefully I'm not the only one who caves on this unnecessary upgrade :)

Nice catch, I saw this too. Here's a question I have - please, all responses are encouraged!

I have the Mirage V2 FS, Omni S10 powered by Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K. We watch more TV/movies than listen to music.

I am considering going to the OMD-15. I have not heard the OMD-15, but from what I have read I can only expect to be pleased. Yes/No?

Presently, I do not have any sats...so naturally, I am looking at the OMD-5s as well.

What are your recommendations for Bi-Amping the OMD-15s? I could try it with this receiver and keep the 2.1 set-up...or what I was thinking is getting the OMD-C1 and (2) OMD-5 for a 5.1. Is there any advantage with bi-amping the 15s (or don't even bother with a receiver like this)...?

Surround sound is the no brainer, but does bi-amping make speakers sound that much better?

Kindly, Matt

I'd love to pick up the omd-15s right now while they are 399, but am having trouble pulling the trigger. I haven't heard anyone say they are a big upgrade over the omd-5s and I personally like the form factor of the 5s.

Tough call. $399 is a smokin deal

I'd love to pick up the omd-15s right now while they are 399, but am having trouble pulling the trigger. I haven't heard anyone say they are a big upgrade over the omd-5s and I personally like the form factor of the 5s.

Tough call. $399 is a smokin deal

I currently run the 15's as my front mains, (4) 5's as my side and rear surrounds and a C1 center. I tried the 5's as my mains and though they sounded great the 15's are much much fuller. My room is also quite large for just the 5's 15X27X8. If you can swing the 15's go for it you will be very happy.

I haven't heard anyone say they are a big upgrade over the omd-5s and I personally like the form factor of the 5s.

They are a big upgrade over the OMD-5s.

GREAT! You guys aren't helping me. I currently use the OMD-5s as my L/R front speakers right now and it is getting harder to fight the urge to order the OMD-15s at Vanns current price.

GREAT! You guys aren't helping me. I currently use the OMD-5s as my L/R front speakers right now and it is getting harder to fight the urge to order the OMD-15s at Vanns current price.

If you have the cash and the space do not pass the 15's up.

I was holding off on the OMD-15's for the possibility of a Black Friday deal at Vanns.. and good thing, they're listed at $399/each for the next couple of days! It seems like their site's been down off and on throughout the day, but I was able to make the purchase through Amazon. I just wanted to pass this along! Hopefully I'm not the only one who caves on this unnecessary upgrade :)

Just wanted to say, BoilerMkr you are my hero for the day! I would not have known about the OMD-15 deal except for you mentioning it here. I hadn't seen 399.00 on these for months and months! Just kept hoping for an even better deal than the 499.00 and here it is. I ordered them late yesterday, and I see where Vanns has already shipped them. Wow!

Then, after already being on "cloud nine" about buying these 15's, I went home and there were 2 mint OMD-5's on ebay. I told the guy I would buy them right then if he would drop them down to 100.00 each, and he went for it. Man, it was truly a Thanksgiving weekend for me for sure!

I am still un-decisive on whether the OMD-5 vs the OMD-C1 is the best choice for the center. There are pros/cons for both in this application.

I am anxious about getting these, no only to hear them, but also to compare them against the Polk Audio Lsi9's, Lsic, and Lsifx's that I have. Also, I am going to try biamping the 15's to see if there is a difference.

Just read the for sale rules...Ill delete this. :)

Hello everyone, i have been reading all the forums for years but this is the first time i have posted anything. I purchased some older Mirage speakers earlier this week off of Craigslist and I am having a hard time finding very much info on all of the speakers and subs. I ended up getting a pair of 890i's, a pair of 590i's, a pair of mbs's with the stands, a mc-1 center channel, a bps-100 sub, and a frx-s10 sub. I was able to get all of these for 300.00 which i think is one hell of a deal and there isn't a scratch on them they look like they just came out of the box. The bps-100 isn't working which the owner informed me was the case. Just wondering if you guys could help me out on this one? He purchased them at tweeter and the sub quit working after a week so they gave him a credit and he ended up getting the frx-s10 and they told him to just toss the bps-100. i was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction in diagnosing the issue? I do have some knowledge on electrical systems and think it is probably something simple. I was wondering if anyone has had the same issue with one of their subs could give me some pointers on troubleshooting? My other question is could i use an external amp say a emotive monoblock amp to bypass the internal amp on the sub? Thanks for any help.

Hello Seadaddy,

Big welcome, and glad to have you here! I did some searching on Google and found quite a bit on the 890i, and 590i's. Seems those were getting 4/5 stars everywhere......so, great choice on your part. On the sub, I would go to miragespeakers.com, get their phone number and just call them. Most companies can help you troubleshoot pretty well on the phone. I had a dead polk speaker one time and with the phone help of a tech we were able to troubleshoot the problem. It was a .25 cent capacitor that I was able to solder in myself.

Not sure if this is against the rules or not..if so, mod please just delete it.

But I have a spare Nanosub that came with my nanosat system if anyone wants to buy it. Shoot me a PM with an offer.

You're cool with me! I see nothing wrong with this, but I don't make the rules. Many of us here are wanting to buy Mirage stuff anyway. Buy you might have better luck posting it in the AVS classifieds. Good Luck!

Also, I am going to try biamping the 15's to see if there is a difference.[/QUOTE]

Thanks.

I have a follow-up question. The other thing I am thinking is I keep the V2 FS and adding the OMD-5/C1 for 5.1.

Since the V2 are rated at 8 ohms and the OMD 6, am I going to run into trouble? My receiver supports either setting but not both simultaneously.

Ok, Im looking at upgrading the center on my nanosat setup...Would the Nanosat Center for $160 be a better choice then spending $400 on a OS3 center? Im guessing the Nanosat center would match up better.

My friend Eric owns Home Theater Solutions here, a high audio dealer/installer. His main speaker line is B&W. When I asked him about passive biamping he quoted B&W in saying "that if the funds were available, definitely passive biamp!" This is all I know at this time about biamping. I have never heard a comparison with/without biamping, so I don't really know from experience which way is really better? I am still wondering from my first question about powering the OMD set if using the UPA-7 and biamping the 15's would sound better than running full range with the XPA-5?

This may not help, but I was bi-amping (passively) a pair of Mirage M3-si speakers with two pairs of monoblock power amps. When I removed one pair, the sound was thinner, less full.

Ok, Im looking at upgrading the center on my nanosat setup...Would the Nanosat Center for $160 be a better choice then spending $400 on a OS3 center? Im guessing the Nanosat center would match up better.

Do an OMD5 or OMD c-1.

Both are better options than the ones you listed.

Do an OMD5 or OMD c-1.

Both are better options than the ones you listed.

Do you mean doing the OMD5 as the center? Think the OMD c-1 is more than I want to ask for something for Christmas from the wifey. But, if the OMD5 would work better at a center then say the Nanosat center, Id be all about that.

Wow just saw the height deminsions on the OMD5...

I have the nanosat in front of my tv at the moment and it just barely gets into the viewing area of the screen. I wouldnt be able to put the OMD5 in that same place. Hrmmm.

Argghh...and of course now I missed on the $160 nanosat center while I was draggin my feet!

The more I look at things size wise..Im going to have to stick with the nano center..unless there is another center of similar size.

3In2Out, don't bother with the nanosat center. It's not enough of an upgrade.

What about an Omnisat V2 or OS3 center? Or just an Omnisat V2 or OS3 satellite? OS3 is the V3 version of the Omnisat. Take your time and look for a deal on something that's actually an upgrade.

Link to Mirage Omnisat page (http://www.miragespeakers.com/na-en/products/omnisat-series/)

Or try to figure out a way to mount an OMD5 so it works with your setup. The current prices are unbeatable.

Keep in mind that above the TV, upside down, is another option for these speakers.

IMO an OMDC1 is too much center for a Nanosat setup. You'd be better spending the money on 3 OMD5s to replace the front 3. Which is something to think about. You could sell the Nanosats and the net cost would be pretty low - $300 or so net? For a huge upgrade.

As far as the Nanosat sub, it has some limitations that make eBay or craigslist a better place to try selling it.

3In2Out, don't bother with the nanosat center. It's not enough of an upgrade.

What about an Omnisat V2 or OS3 center? Or just an Omnisat V2 or OS3 satellite? OS3 is the V3 version of the Omnisat. Take your time and look for a deal on something that's actually an upgrade.

Link to Mirage Omnisat page (http://www.miragespeakers.com/na-en/products/omnisat-series/)

Or try to figure out a way to mount an OMD5 so it works with your setup. The current prices are unbeatable.

Keep in mind that above the TV, upside down, is another option for these speakers.

IMO an OMDC1 is too much center for a Nanosat setup. You'd be better spending the money on 3 OMD5s to replace the front 3. Which is something to think about. You could sell the Nanosats and the net cost would be pretty low - $300 or so net? For a huge upgrade.

As far as the Nanosat sub, it has some limitations that make eBay or craigslist a better place to try selling it.


Thanks for the insight. I thought about selling the full nanosat setup and moving to 3 omd5s and my sub, but Id be without surrounds for a while. Not sure how much a Nanosat setup would go for at the moment.

So looks like my options would be:

1. Sell the Nanosat setup and move to 3 OMD5s (Would probably need to get $350 for the Nanosat setup to do this.)

or

2. Try to find a good deal on a V2 or OS3 center. The satellite as a center would be too tall to go to the trouble of changing up the mounting/location for just upgrading the center to another satellite. (Doing this I could also sell the Nanosat its replacing and recoup some money.)

I just found out why the bps 100 was not working, when mirage assembled the sub they never put a fuse in it. So that was an easy 75 cent fix. Also anyone know why they use a slow blow fuse? The only thing i can think of is that it will keep from blowing the fuse in the event of clipping.

I am not sure of the reasoning behind the SB fuses but I can say that in every piece of audio equipment i have owned and bothered to check, have all had SB fuses. My last amp used to blow fuses every now and then and it had the slow blow variety.

Wow, I know I'm late to the party, but these OMDs sound like a great value! My only problem now is space :(

I'll more than likely pick up an OMD-C1 as the center, but unfortunately I can't fit the OMD-15's up front. Instead, for the L/R should I go with a pair of OMD5 or OS3-FS? The OS3-FS will ft perfectly, but are they "sound matched" to the OMD line? Will they sound good with an OMD-C1? I'm not even sure if they will be worth the extra money over the OMD5's...

Either way, I'll be adding a sub as well (more than likely something like an SVS PC12-NSD) and all this will be going into a room that's about 17x15x9, if that helps.

Wow, I know I'm late to the party, but these OMDs sound like a great value! My only problem now is space :(

I'll more than likely pick up an OMD-C1 as the center, but unfortunately I can't fit the OMD-15's up front. Instead, for the L/R should I go with a pair of OMD5 or OS3-FS? The OS3-FS will ft perfectly, but are they "sound matched" to the OMD line? Will the two sound good together? I'm not even sure if they will be worth the extra money over the OMD5's...

Either way, I'll be adding a sub as well (more than likely something like an SVS PC12-NSD) and all this will be going into a room that's about 17x15x9, if that helps.

Get the OMD-5s

+1 on the OMD5s. They do sound different and better than the OS series. Since you'll have a sub, the FS doesn't give you any advantage. And the OMD5s have plenty of power handling ability.

I just found out why the bps 100 was not working, when mirage assembled the sub they never put a fuse in it. So that was an easy 75 cent fix. Also anyone know why they use a slow blow fuse? The only thing i can think of is that it will keep from blowing the fuse in the event of clipping.

Hi Seadaddy:
Though all active (powered) equipment (amplifier, line-level source, processor, powered speaker such as sub-woofer with built-in amp, etc) has - or should have - fuses, passive loudspeakers generally do not have fuses.

According to most manufacturers and pro-sound sources, fuses aren't appropriate for loudspeakers. For example:

....fuses can add distortion as their impedance changes with heating, and are not the best match to model long term heating, or short term over excursion. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslutz-forum/496805-pa-speaker-protection.html

....a fuse may blow with a signal that would not damage the speaker, but it can also pass a signal that can damage the speaker. http://www.jblpro.com/pages/general_faq.htm

Several manufacturers have used protection techniques such as light-bulbs which avoid some issues that fuses would create. Nonetheless, bulbs are not without their own foilables...for a detailed description see the New Zealaander's comments: http://www.churchsoundcheck.com/faq4.html

There's lots of other enlightening info about all this on the internet. For example, a higher-powered amplifier with undistorted un-clipped power is much preferred to a lower power amp which, when it distorts, can send nasty ugly clipped signals to the drivers and burn out the voice coils. An axiom is that speakers are more likely to be damaged by not having enough power than by having too much power. Without having sophisticated active processing such as a limiting curcuit, matching amplifier power to speaker efficiency, room size and acoustics, and listening-level requirements is the preferred method of loudspeaker protection.

Cheers

I don't think Seadaddy was asking why the subwoofer amp has a fuse but rather why it uses a slow blow instead fast blow fuse. My guess would also be for peak power handling in short spurts so that you're not blowing fuses every time the amp gets stressed for a bit.

oops...my bad for not paying attention that the model to which Seadaddy was referring was a powered sub-woofer. you can disregard my "treatise." :)

Yesterday I received my 5.0 Mirage set (4 X OMD5 & 1 X OMDC1). I am still braking them in but loving the sound.

However, checking the speakers I discovered that the midrange driver under the omni-directional tweeter does not seem to be doing much. In other words, unlike every other driver, when I touch the baffle it does not vibrate while playing loud music. Curiously, on the other hand, my receiver's Audessey frequency response graph does not show any dips at any frequencies.

:confused:

Is this normal? Is it a passive radiator? Any other known procedure to check the mid-range driver? Could it be that the midrange frequencies are higher and therefore imperceptible to touch? Any feedback before calling the vendor/manufacturer would be greatly appreciated.

UPDATE: After some additional searching I discovered that other people have observed similar behavior (e.g., Xlr8yourMac).

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I did not see it.

From my research, the OMD-5 speakers seem to be better sounding and more popular than the OS3-Sat speakers. If that's the case, why do the OS3's cost more?

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I did not see it.

From my research, the OMD-5 speakers seem to be better sounding and more popular than the OS3-Sat speakers. If that's the case, why do the OS3's cost more?

That's because Mirage has discontinued the OMD line while the OS line is still actively sold. I have the OMD-5's you speak of as well as the Omnisat V2 (pretty much the same as the OS3's but in an aluminum enclosure) and the OMD's do sound better to me, but it's not as such a drastic difference as I would like to think. With the way the OMDs are currently priced, it's hard to recommend the OS series over this.

I see. That must be why Mirage stills shows the OMD's on their website, but they don't display the MSRP for them. Decisions, decisions.

+1 on the OMD5s. They do sound different and better than the OS series. Since you'll have a sub, the FS doesn't give you any advantage. And the OMD5s have plenty of power handling ability.
Thanks guys! I pulled the trigger...they should be here in a week :cool:

Is there a certain brand of receiver that is prefered to use with Mirage like Marantz is with Klipsch?

Yesterday I received my 5.0 Mirage set (4 X OMD5 & 1 X OMDC1). I am still braking them in but loving the sound.

However, checking the speakers I discovered that the midrange driver under the omni-directional tweeter does not seem to be doing much. In other words, unlike every other driver, when I touch the baffle it does not vibrate while playing loud music. Curiously, on the other hand, my receiver's Audessey frequency response graph does not show any dips at any frequencies.

:confused:

Is this normal? Is it a passive radiator? Any other known procedure to check the mid-range driver? Could it be that the midrange frequencies are higher and therefore imperceptible to touch? Any feedback before calling the vendor/manufacturer would be greatly appreciated.

UPDATE: After some additional searching I discovered that other people have observed similar behavior (e.g., Xlr8yourMac).

I noticed the same thing with my OMD-C1. After checking the cross over points, the OMD-C1s smaller midrange speaker operates within a very limited high frequency range. The range appears to be too high to cause any significant movement. I discover that it does produce sound by carefully covering the tweeter and other midrandges. If anyone else has anymore info, please chime in.

Guld, see this discussion of this same issue and the suggestion of doing a frequency sweep

Discussion in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19016586#post19016586)

Another discussion in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18952175#post18952175)

Mirage says:

Crossover Point 1 kHz and 2.7 kHz

- that is, the woofers cover up to 1 khz, the tweeter covers above 2.7 khz. (Not a hard cutoff - it's phased in.) So if you hear sound coming out between those two points, then the midrage driver is working.

Playing test tones is a lot easier IMO than guessing which speaker the sound is coming out of, trying to cover one up, wondering if it's moving as much as it should, etc.

There are lots of sources for free test tones if you google.

Thanks fellas! Using pink noise and test tones, I tried the pick-a-boo experiment (covering the other drivers) and my findings were consistent with those reported here. I'm glad it's working since I've become very much attached to my new center channel. For what I paid for these speakers, they are a steal -- and their imaging compliment my awkward room acoustics to boot.

Thanks again for the replies.

From my research, the OMD-5 speakers seem to be better sounding and more popular than the OS3-Sat speakers. If that's the case, why do the OS3's cost more?

How do you know the OMDs are more popular? They've only been sold through one online dealer for the past two years, whereas the rest of the Mirage line is available in popular retail stores and on mainstream shopping sites. The new smaller Mirage line are heavily pushed by Crutchfield as a Bose alternative for example and apparently that's how Klipsch/Mirage like it now.

We in this thread do not represent the sales figures for Mirage, we only represent those who know where this forum is and that Vann's are selling an old but good speaker for a stupidly cheap price.

i have an older set of mirage speakers...just wondering if they are worth anything...
the floorstanders are omni 260's and the center is an omni cc...can't remember the surround speaker model numbers right now...

Yes, they probably are. The Omni series was the lower end of Mirage's full size lineup, the higher end was the OM (now OMD line). I believe that there was a newer version (can't remember the name) of your line, before the klipsch buyout, and before Mirage only started making small cute speakers (not including the stuff sold through Vanns).

They are definitely worth something. Are they made in Canada? If so, it's one of the last line's they manuctured before everything was moved to China. I also believe that these were the first full-size speakers to use the Omniguide. Do a search for the Omni 60 and you'll see a few years back they were getting rave reviews on here. I believe teh 260s were the floorstanders. Surrounds were probably Omni-FX. You can try throwing them on the marketplace here, audiogon, or eBay. Selling the floorstanders might be harder due to shipping. They are some very nice sounding speakers though.

yes the surrounds are fx (i just checked) and they were manufactured in canada.

Anyone have a V2 Center or OS3 Center laying around they want to sell?

Just rigged up my new basement 5.1 set-up this weekend. I bought the Mirage MX 5.1 bundle from Vann's. My initial reaction is very good!

Due to space (& wife) issues, I used Mirage Omnican OC-45 in-ceiling speakers for the rears.

If anyone is interested in a coupe of new MX speakers, shoot me a PM before they hit ebay.

ugh, unbelievable. the LED on the s10 i just received is dead after just ONE day! the sub is definitely working. this stinks. i had an original omni s8 for over three years with no problems. maybe this is why the prestige line has been so deeply discounted. :P back to vanns...
well, all i have to say is WTF. the blue led on yet ANOTHER prestige s10 i've owned has died. i can't believe i'm the only one having this problem. the sub is plugged into a decent tripp lite surge protector/line conditioner so i don't think the lamp is shorting out. the sub still works, but it sure is an annoying problem. i'm sure vann's will take it back again, but i'm getting tired of paying for shipping back to them which is not cheap. very disappointed in the build quality of mirage since they moved to china.

Hello all,

I have in my posession 2 sets of OMD-5s intended for surround and front effect duty. However, I had ordered the wrong mounting brackets with only 1/4" threaded stems which is too small for the OMD's threaded insert which appears to be 3/8"?. Are there reducers I can get which will allows for the use of sthe smaller mounting bracket to the larger threaded inserts on the speakers? I tried and ordered 2 sets of these reducers thinking they are what I needed but turns out to be the wrong size though it does say 3/8" to 1/4" reducer. These suckers are HUGE so don't understand why it uses the the above size description:

http://www.airridefittings.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2

Anyone who has experience or can help would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Kenobi

I am running OS3 Sats as my surrounds in 5.2 setup, would upgrade to OMD 5's be a worthwhile upgrade? Would it be worth the money?

well, all i have to say is WTF. the blue led on yet ANOTHER prestige s10 i've owned has died. i can't believe i'm the only one having this problem. the sub is plugged into a decent tripp lite surge protector/line conditioner so i don't think the lamp is shorting out. the sub still works, but it sure is an annoying problem. i'm sure vann's will take it back again, but i'm getting tired of paying for shipping back to them which is not cheap. very disappointed in the build quality of mirage since they moved to china.

Yes, I have a setup with dual s10s and I've experienced a similar issue with the LED on one of the units. If I power up with the power mode switch (""off" to "on") the LED will not light or if the unit is on auto the LED will turn off and not light up again when there is a signal. However, if I have the power mode set to "on" and unplug the unit and plug it back the LED lights and stays lit. Of course, I have to keep the unit powered on all the time in order to have the light. Not energy efficient.

I know exactly how you feel. The speaker works fine, but it's always nice when you pay good money to have the LED as well. For aesthetic reasons, I just keep the unit powered on all the time. Maybe this trick will work for you.

Hello all,

I have in my posession 2 sets of OMD-5s intended for surround and front effect duty. However, I had ordered the wrong mounting brackets with only 1/4" threaded stems which is too small for the OMD's threaded insert which appears to be 3/8"?. Are there reducers I can get which will allows for the use of sthe smaller mounting bracket to the larger threaded inserts on the speakers? I tried and ordered 2 sets of these reducers thinking they are what I needed but turns out to be the wrong size though it does say 3/8" to 1/4" reducer. These suckers are HUGE so don't understand why it uses the the above size description:

http://www.airridefittings.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2

Anyone who has experience or can help would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Kenobi

I think your reducer is a pipe fitting. Those are measured differently. This is what it appears to me.

Yes, I have a setup with dual s10s and I've experienced a similar issue with the LED on one of the units. If I power up with the power mode switch (""off" to "on") the LED will not light or if the unit is on auto the LED will turn off and not light up again when there is a signal. However, if I have the power mode set to "on" and unplug the unit and plug it back the LED lights and stays lit. Of course, I have to keep the unit powered on all the time in order to have the light. Not energy efficient.

I know exactly how you feel. The speaker works fine, but it's always nice when you pay good money to have the LED as well. For aesthetic reasons, I just keep the unit powered on all the time. Maybe this trick will work for you.

hey carny, i appreciate your sympathy and tip!

unfortunately, the LED on my unit is completely dead. it doesn't light up no matter what i do. haven't decided if i'm just going to live with it or waste money on yet another replacement. if i was smart i'd go out and get a hsu or something, but for no good reason, i want the sub and speaker manufacturer to match. maybe i'll swap it out for an mm-8, i don't think that has an LED. :P too bad it doesn't go as deep as the s10.

hey carny, i appreciate your sympathy and tip!

unfortunately, the LED on my unit is completely dead. it doesn't light up no matter what i do. haven't decided if i'm just going to live with it or waste money on yet another replacement. if i was smart i'd go out and get a hsu or something, but for no good reason, i want the sub and speaker manufacturer to match. maybe i'll swap it out for an mm-8, i don't think that has an LED. :P too bad it doesn't go as deep as the s10.

Yes, at the time that I bought I was operating under the belief that sub should be the same brand as the fronts and surrounds. Now, I would probably take a different route. Still, I do like the aesthetics of having speakers with matching finishes. Looks good. I'm fairly pleased with the performance of these subs as well.

I think your reducer is a pipe fitting. Those are measured differently. This is what it appears to me.

Bluvette,

Thanks for your input. You're probably right as even Home Depot had the exact size as my example above.

I am just wondering what others do to retrofit the 1/4" mounting brackets to the larger inserts on these speakers. Maybe I'll just have to be creative and mount the speakers first onto a piece of metal or wooden plate, drill 1/4" holes to then mount the brackets.

Best regards,

Kenobi

Bluvette,

Thanks for your input. You're probably right as even Home Depot had the exact size as my example above.

I am just wondering what others do to retrofit the 1/4" mounting brackets to the larger inserts on these speakers. Maybe I'll just have to be creative and mount the speakers first onto a piece of metal or wooden plate, drill 1/4" holes to then mount the brackets.

Best regards,

Kenobi

Check Lowes. In the hardware section they have a display that has dozens of drawers with all different kinds of hardware. Good possibility you'll find what you need there. It's a 3/8 x 1/4 machine thread reducer.

Thanks much Jack. Will try Lowes and hope for the best!

Best regards,

Kenobi

Anyone have a V2 Center or OS3 Center laying around they want to sell?

I have one currently listed on eBay, I PM'ed you, but if anyone else wants/needs it, feel free to contact me. Nothing wrong with it, just changed my mains/center to another brand.

I'm contemplating selling my OM-9s as well, but they're far more difficult to ship, and I don't know if i'm ready to part with them yet :) The OM-9s were still Canadian made, and have the plates at the back with the designer's names :)

FYI, Vanns got the OMD5s for 129.99 right now!! ..but only the maple color. Im getting a set of 5 and selling my crappy Klipsch Synergy SLX LCRs. i hate them!! after reading thru 100 pages about the OMD5s, i cant wait to get it!!

I have one question though. Im using a Klipsch KSW-10 Subwoofer and the Onkyo TX-SR505. Think I need to upgrade those component too? or can I stick with it for now? my main concern is if my sub will match the OMD5s well.

anyway, this is the lowest I've seen these speakers! and I have been watching them like a hawk!

I'm thinking of getting 2 of those OMD5's from Vann's for $130 that hung8582 just posted about for my front speakers, and pairing it with 2 Nanosats for the surrounds. Anyone have any experience with this setup or opinions on how it would sound?

I'm wondering if having matching sizes for all four (or five, if I got a Nanosat or OMD5 for the center) would be a big advantage in that the rear wouldn't be overpowered by the front. I've read some reviews of the Nanosat 5.0/5.1 package, and they emphasize how good all the speakers sound together; how the setup seems to be "working in harmony" to de-emphasize the speaker locations. I'm hoping that getting bigger front speakers only improves the sound and doesn't screw anything up.

The wife is really pushing for tiny surround speakers, which are the only ones in my layout that will be highly visible, plus I'm not sure she'd like that maple color, otherwise I'd probably just get 4 (or 5) of the OMD5's.

What should I get for the center channel? Before I saw that deal on the OMD5's, I was debating whether to get the Nanosat 5.0, or the Prestige5. It appears that the only difference between the two is the center channel (although after noticing that amazon sells individual Prestige speakers for $200, and individual Nanosats for $125, I'm not so sure anymore... but the fact that they have the same dimensions seems to suggest that they are the same). Does having a more "standard" center channel improve things, or does it counteract that "balance" that I was talking about above?

A couple more questions:
- Is the speaker here (http://www.amazon.com/Mirage-Nanosat-Prestige-High-Performance-Black/dp/B000JFNA4Y/ref=sr_1_12?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1292443045&sr=1-12) the same as the speakers in this package (http://www.amazon.com/Mirage-Nanosat-5-0-5-0-channel-theater/dp/B002Q48XXO/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1292443045&sr=1-7), other than the color/finish?
- Is this center channel (http://www.amazon.com/Mirage-Nanosat-High-Performance-Speaker-Black/dp/B000FJ8026/ref=sr_1_15?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1292443045&sr=1-15) the same one included in this package (http://www.amazon.com/Mirage-Nanosat-Prestige5-High-Performance-System/dp/B000X5NYN2/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1292443045&sr=1-2)?

hung8582, keep what you have for now and use it for a while to see how it meets your needs. There's plenty of time to consider upgrades, but that will do for now. It isn't really a matter of whether a sub will match - subs don't need to match - but whether it performs the way you want it to.

Brent212, Nanosats work well enough for most people as surrounds for home theater and some music, since the range of sound from the surrounds for HT is fairly limited. Matching the surrounds and the fronts will be fine, it's kind of apples and oranges in terms of what they do anyway. All modern receivers have enough adjustments to let you balance the front and the rear, as long as the locations of the speakers are reasonably workable. So given what you say about your wife's views, they should be fine.

But get another OMD5 for the center if you can manage it. That's way, way more important than the surrounds. I'd venture to say that no one should every use a Nano-anything for a center, if there's another option.

As you guessed, the Prestige is about the finish, not the audio quality of the Nanosat.

Just remember to buy what you want, or it will haunt you every time you see or hear the system. :P

Hi everyone, just wondering if any of you have listened to Swans speakers (particularly the DIVA 5.1) and how does it compared to the Mirage OMD-5 (all around in 5.1 configuration) for 80% HT purpose. I've read reviews of the OMD series and all of them are great so I'm deciding to test out the Mirage.

Will the SQ be about the same or will it decrease substantially as the Mirage OMD-5 is a much smaller speaker. I do have a Mirage OMNI S12 sub (it sounds great w/ my SWANS) and I'm pretty sure it'll do well w/ the Mirage OMD-5s. I know there is no comparison in the bass department (I will have the S12 to handle that duty) but the only concern is the SQ of mid and highs. The Swans are very detailed and airy in those department and I do like it. One of the reason why I'm thinking of moving to the OMD-5 is because I now live in an apartment, and the Swans, while it fits (barely), it will be better if I'm going for something smaller. The other reason is of course the WAF (well, she kind of accepted it, coz it's there already. But maybe it'll make her happier if that SWANS is gone) Please comment. Thank you.

FYI, for those considering synergy of the equipments, I'm using a Boston Acoustic reciver, BA-7120 (Sherwood Newcastle R965 clone), and will be using a PS3 as bluray player as well as a Oppo DV970HD SACD/DVD upconversion player.


-=SGI=-

Well the sound will definitely be different than your Diva's (regardless of size) because of Mirage's OMD approach. I highly recommend listening to something in the Omnipolar line first to see if you like it. I happen to really really like the OMD-5's and have 2 pairs myself but I would never use any OMD speaker in my main rig. I currently use the OMD-5's for mostly background music in other rooms outside of my main listening room. The OMD's have performed fantastically for me in that application but everyone has their own opinions.

I have never heard the Diva 5.1's so I cant specifically comment on them.

Well i bit the bullet and ordered 2 OMD5's from Vanns today. Hopefully they sound good in my rears to go with my Martin Logan Preface's

First off, I haven't been on here in a while. I have a pioneer SC-25, 2 OMD 15's a C-1 and two OMD 5's for surround and dual subs. My question pertaining to speaker size is what is the purpose of setting my OMD-15's to small? Then isn't it essentially rendering them the same as the omd-5's? When I set the OMD 15's to small hardly any sound comes out of the the two forward facing speakers on the tower. It just seems like the sound only comes out from the top of the speaker. I have my crossover set at 80Hz.

First off, I haven't been on here in a while. I have a pioneer SC-25, 2 OMD 15's a C-1 and two OMD 5's for surround and dual subs. My question pertaining to speaker size is what is the purpose of setting my OMD-15's to small? Then isn't it essentially rendering them the same as the omd-5's? When I set the OMD 15's to small hardly any sound comes out of the the two forward facing speakers on the tower. It just seems like the sound only comes out from the top of the speaker. I have my crossover set at 80Hz.

I have the same speakers, and also have mine set to small/80 Hz crossover. There is plenty of movement from the active front driver on the OMD 15 when playing material, so I don't think the upgrade over the OMD 5 is pointless. The other driver on the front is a passive radiator, so you won't get as much action from it.

Hi all, would appreciate some feedback.

Room size is 16x15x8.

Usage is 80% movies, 15% gaming and 5% music.

I currently have Infinity Primus 362 R/L and 350Center, a ML Abyss Sub, and Denon 3311 AVR. The AVR is a recent purchase, previously was using a HK347 but alas needed 3D, and more HDMI inputs.

I notice after the AVR upgrade the speakers are sounding more boomy, and am getting fatigued listening to them. They can get loud but they never had that presence. My father has some B&W 800 series I think, and they sound awesome even at low volumes.

Am looking for an upgrade but wanted to try and gauge if going to the Mirage OMD15, 5's and C1 would be a major improvement, and if I need to purchase any additional power amps. Alternatively am waiting for KEF IQ series to go on clearance. Are these two brands similar in performance?

Thanks,

Deepak