Depends. My doors open out of the theater, therefore they're installed on the outside of the theater door jamb. You leave an inch for the furring strip (in preparation for the Lincacoustic/703. In my case, I had 2x6 construction, plus the width for the furring, so I had to extend the jambs on the HT room side. If your door opens into the theater, then I'd put the door on after GOM. I actually have two doors in my HT room and I did one before and one after GOM (had to special order the door). Both my doors opened out though.

Bud
thanks Bud for the insight. that's helpful.

When you say you have 2 doors, is that 1 entrance with 2 doors (like communicating doors?). If so, do you have a picture what your product?
thanks

No, I have a concession area off the theater that's only accessible from the theater.

Bud

How about a nice coat of paint with a color similar to your other stained peices?

Ronnie

I thought about that too. I may try that before I put carpet on it. Thanks for the suggestion.

JB - here is my doorway at present. The door is installed on the outside wall but opens inward. I will fill out the rest of the opening with 3/4" material just like the rest of my trim and stain it.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6014635sm.jpg

Steve - here are the floors in the rest of the house. Explains the pine thing...

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6014636sm.jpg

(btw Steve - you should have received a package today...)

ebr,

Every thing is looking great! I am having a house built for myself right now too. Unfortunately its only semi custom, and they wont let me work on it during the construction prosses. That would make building my theater soooooo much more easy. I am going to see if they will change a few things for me, if not i might have to remove a wall or 2 :P

Its been a pleasure to see the progress of your theater!

Mike

(btw Steve - you should have received a package today...)
Nothing came today but I'll look for it tomorrow. Thanks.

JB - here is my doorway at present. The door is installed on the outside wall but opens inward. I will fill out the rest of the opening with 3/4" material just like the rest of my trim and stain it.

thanks ebr for the picture.

So if you have your door open to the inside of your HT, I would think that you couldn't open the door all the way. Since you're installing it on the outside wall, would it be better to open outward instead of inward? that way you can open the door fully.

I have a side wall by the entrance that the door opens on to so it opens as far as it ever would anyway.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/theaterlayout3.jpg

I like the door opening into an "entrance" area of the theater like this. That way the door travel area doesn't encroach on any pathways on either side.

That works well. If I opened the door into my room (on the side), it would cause issues with the front row of seats.

Bud

I have to admit I have been lurking....looks good though, keep it up. I have to agree with leaving the wood exposed...it puts a little something extra into the charecter of the room.

Robert

Way too many activities this weekend (3yr old's dance recital, 7yr old's cub scout graduation and I played in a tennis tournament) but got a little bit done on that back wall section with the thick absorber.

Here is 3" of OC 703 with FSK on part of it.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6044644sm.jpg

And, as I had feared, that foil is plainly visible through my fabric

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6044646sm.jpg

So, I turned the FSK around and put the paper side out.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6044647sm.jpg

That solved it.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6044648sm.jpg

Hopefully, turning it around like that won't be a problem. Bryan...? It seems like it shouldn't be. In any case, the only other option would be to put some other black fabric over top of it and I don't see how that would be any better than having it like this. Maybe this is the way its supposed to be anyway. I don't see how that foil wouldn't be visible through just about any acoustically transparent fabric.

Normally you bond the paper side just because it bonds easier than the foil. Whether it shows or not really depends on color and how far away the cloth is from the facing. If it shows, I normally use a layer of thin muslin between the GOM and the scrim.

If you got it to bond OK this way it should still do it's job.

Bryan

I've been lurking for a while, great job; the room is coming together nicely.

Did you get the 703 locally? I checked some of the local places but haven’t found it.

I need some room treatments myself. :)

Also, I was thinking for the steps you could always do a veneer if you’re not happy with the current results.

datobin - PM the guy who posted right above you for materials.

The only veneer I have been able to find locally is oak (which I don't want). I could special order a different species but it appears very expensive and comes in 2x4 sheets which would produce a bunch of seams.

Anyone have an online source for good pine veneer?

I got a little more done today. Basically, I'm stalling a bit until the final electrical inspection on the house is complete.

I got part of the fabric on the wall section where the rack will be. I also fitted the rack and discovered that I was off by 1/8" in my measurements. Had to rip out a section of the rack platform and re-do it with thinner material. Man, why did I use liquid nails on that thing...?

The other thing I did today was paint the screen wall framing black. In past experience I've found if you don't paint it that the black GOM will really show the framing on a completely transparent wall like this.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6054649sm.jpg

So is that noose just a reminder in case you go Liquid Nails again (or a "I can see through the fabric noose)?

Bud

So is that noose just a reminder in case you go Liquid Nails again (or a "I can see through the fabric noose)?

Bud

That's for me if the wife wants to move again...

So is that noose just a reminder in case you go Liquid Nails again (or a "I can see through the fabric noose)? That's for me if the wife wants to move again... :D Too much!!

I didn't show the proscenium wall with the treatments in it so here is the other one.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6064650sm.jpg

3 1/2" of cotton in there. The way the wall is built it will be spaced about 8" off the real wall so should make a pretty fine bass trap.

Here it is with fabric.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6064651sm.jpg

Okay, on with more treatments and fabric. First, the treatments for the lower half of this wall section - FSK faced. I know its wrinkled - didn't get it on there very well this time. But I didn't put the spacers behind this piece of 703 for this very reason so there is a 1/2" gap between the face of the treatments and the fabric.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6064652sm.jpg

And then with the fabric on. See, no wrinkles evident.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6064653sm.jpg

I threw a couple of my sample trim boards up there for a first glimpse of what this thing should look like when it all comes together. There is a little gap in this one junction due to how I had to make the panels come together. It really shows up in this picture due to the flash. It is all but invisible in normal light. I may cover it, but I don't think I'll have to.


Next to attack the screen wall. Another "no trim" fabric junction so the fabric goes up backwards first.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6064654sm.jpg

Then is pulled around the furring to make a nice edge.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6064655sm.jpg

Ebr,

I have a procenium similar to your and I was going to install the fabric just like your above picture shows. However, I have a sloped ceiling where this occur. Any tips on what to do when a side and the top of a fabric panel like this needs to have concealed staple. I do not have any molding planned for the procenium to sloped ceiling junction at this time.

My procenium is like you second room with the skewed side portions of the procenium, but the room is over a garage and has the typical slopes ceilings from the knee walls up to the main ceiling.

Do you have any insight?

By the way, your room is looking awesome, the color scheme and molding set-up is very nice

Thanks

J - I tried to go look at your thread to get a visual but, for some reason, I'm not getting any of the pictures.

Anyway, do both sides of the proscenium die into something or would it be possible to wrap the fabric around it on the screen wall side? If you can wrap it on that one side, you should be able to make it work - although the ceiling junction will be a little tricky to execute.

Basically, you would do this "inside corner" treatment on the top wall/ceiling junction so you'd have to tack the fabric to the ceiling or something to get behind it and staple it to the wall itself (right up at the top). Then put your furring strip in there on the wall and up against the ceiling (you may need to miter this depending on how sloped that junction is). Screw/nail in the furring strip and then let the fabric come down over it.

That takes care of the wall/ceiling junction. You can just staple along the edge of the proscenium side wall junction and use the side wall as your inside corner to cover those staples. Then wrap the fabric around the open end of the proscenium and tack/staple it in the back.

Does that make sense? Tough to visualize this stuff from words sometimes.

If you can't do the wrap and, thus, have three edges that need no staple treatment then, I think, you're SOL. Personally, I would make it easier and put base and crown on proscenium wall.

Glad to hear it wasn't just me who got red X's when looking at J-dubb's thread. Time to fix that J!

I did look at the pics you have on the fotki site, I like the way you are using the room!

Okay, I see here that you haven't designed the proscenium wall end at the screen to be open, but you could.

http://images17.fotki.com/v311/free/ea7d2/8/899163/3480834/PICT0350-vi.jpg

If you just cut out that little piece of top plate and base plate that connect the proscenium to the screen wall (or just leave them there and paint them black), you could have room to wrap the fabric around back there. You would just have a small gap there, but with black fabric on the screen wall and no light back there, it is not a problem.

I have fixed the "red 'X's" 3 times now and they keep coming back. They work for a day or two and go back to "X"s. Now I know why no one is looking at my thread. Sorry guys, I will fix that tonight.

Ebr - I do have base molding, so the bottom is OK. The two sides will have intersecting panels to hide the staples. It is just the top. I will try ther inside corner trick and add crown if it does not work.

Thanks guys **end thread hijack**

More work on the screen wall today.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6074656sm.jpg

I clearly forgot to paint some small furring pieces black. The flash shows them off here but they are not noticeable in normal light. Hopefully, power in the house tomorrow so I can check these things out under the proper lighting and see if anything needs to be fixed.

The furring in quesion was added to deal with these junction points in the fabric.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6074660sm.jpg

To get a good edge there, I cut the fabric just right and then put a piece of furring behind, pulling the fabric through and nailing the furring in place to create the nice seam.

Here it is from behind.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6074658sm.jpg

Was a bit tricky to do this to both sides of the same piece of fabric, but, since I had access to behind it, it was possible.

I also did a couple more of the smaller panels of treatments and fabric but no pics of that as its just more of the same. Don't want to bore y'all with every single section of fabric :).

Nice work.
Boring? Please.
GOM is the finishing touch and takes great care, at least for me.
A fellow diy'er is never bored seeing another's work.

Ebr,

Is your ceiling paint a flat or satin finish? It does not look shiny at all.

Its an eggshell. Makes a nice finish without too much sheen. True flat in a dark color like that will show every variation or smudge.

More fabric panels today. Here is one of the more tricky sections.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6084661sm.jpg

May not look all that tricky, but it was because of the bends for the baseboard coming down the steps. Normally, that's no big deal - just cut the fabric to follow leaving a little extra to hang over. The problem is the fact that my trim is all recessed. You can't cut a piece of fabric and have it bend two ways on an inside corner... Anyway, just had to cut it close and hope it doesn't show.

I have to take this time to throw some props at my man Bryan. I have most of the treatments up now. Pretty much everything except for the back part of the fridge cubby that we're gonna use as another bass absorber. Of course, there's no carpet and no furniture and I've only got an old receiver and analog stereo going in there right now but it sounds pretty darned good.

The best thing is the bass response is very even (meaning consistent, not necessarily flat as I haven't done a sweep measurement) as you walk around the room. Even if you stand in a corner, you don't get a big bass loading bump in the low frequencies. The only place where there is a noticeable hump is standing right in the center of the entrance area and the emphasized frequency there is quite low (I'm guessing 30-40hz) and sounds real nice :). At the moment, its my favorite spot in the room.

Anyway - thanks Bryan for the excellent modelling. I think its gonna work out great.

P.S. I'm gonna paint that step light cover black, so don't panic... ;)

I like it white... mine is white! Granted, I didn't have any Lido style Pine Valley paint handy....

Bud

Your HT continues to impress. Keep up the great work and the pics.
I love the idea of recessed trim! I never thought of that but it will save me another couple inches in a very space concious design. Awesome ebr! Thanks.

The only place where there is a noticeable hump is standing right in the center of the entrance area and the emphasized frequency there is quite low (I'm guessing 30-40hz) and sounds real nice :). At the moment, its my favorite spot in the room.
I had to LOL on that comment. I know I would feel the same way :D And for Bryan, he has already made a huge difference in my HT design and I'm not done either.

Another benefit to the recessed trim is a lot less need for miter cuts and coping joints. Since all the inside corners will be hidden, I can use simple butt joints. Coping took forever last time.

However, realize that, if you have a chair rail (or worse, two like me) it does double the furring requirements to recess the trim.

Some more progress. Here is the whole rack area with fabric.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6094662sm.jpg

And then the other "tricky" side with the steps. Here is the furring frame for the step light. The fact that these had to be furred out allowed me to also even them up. The electrician just stuck them on the nearest stud during rough in and, of course, the studs were not lined up on each side. I wasn't able to get them exactly the same, but I was able to move each of them a little bit and get it a lot closer.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6094664sm.jpg

Hopefully, I'll start with some trim this weekend. I'd like to get all the baseboard up because the carpet installers come Tuesday!

Today's work was mostly finally furring out the entrance area. I had been putting this off because I needed to figure out exactly how the GE was going to fit and how I was going to handle extending the door jamb.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6104668sm.jpg

Also stained my first batch of trim today. Oooh this is gonna look nice...

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6104667sm.jpg

This is pine that is pre-treated then two coats of a "Chestnut" Poloplaz stain and two coats of satin poly (its wet in the pic above - its not that shiny).

I like the look of the stain. Not too dark, but certainly nice to look at!

Yeah, I think its gonna look real nice. Can't wait for it to start coming together, but still a lot of work to go.

Well, I put up some of the first baseboard today. I didn't get a chance to snap any pictures though. I will in the next couple days.

Crunch time really starts now but the rest of the house and move is taking too much time. We have our first walk through on the whole house tomorrow and then I need to really hit the Theater hard to be ready for carpet on Tuesday.

In anticipation of spending most waking hours working on the Theater and the rest of the house we had some family time today. All went to see "Cars". Good flick and those Pixar boys just keep one-upping themselves. The CGI in that thing is absolutely amazing and that was on the big, fuzzy cineplex screen. I can't wait 'til that one comes out on HD DVD - it will be stunning. Every last detail of texture and lighting was attended to such that you really found yourself wondering if you were looking at CGI at all.

Here are some baseboard shots. I like the way this is coming out...

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6124670sm.jpg

Steps were the trickiest part

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6124669sm.jpg

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6124671sm.jpg


And, all cleaned out and ready for carpet tomorrow!!

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6124672sm.jpg

Looking good...I really like the colors youve got in the room!!!

Robert

ebr,

Just awesome! That carpet is really going to tie it all together.

BTW -- did you decide to put carpet on the front of the steps or leave it stained? IMO, the stained looks great and adds some nice POP.

This is really coming together. Very nice.

I agree. This is looking like a great space. I missed the link to an image of the carpet. Have you picked one?

Your HT is starting to look very good indeed...And I must agree the choice of colors is very nice!

Thanks all, I think it is coming together nicely. Definitely in the home stretch here.

Carpet went in today and I got the baseboard (all but two pieces) up just in time.

Here it is going in.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6134674sm.jpg

And here it is complete. The colors are not exactly right - the carpt is a pretty dark brown.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6134677sm.jpg

And one more.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6134679sm.jpg

Tomorrow I'll work on more trim and the few fabric panels I have left. I think the sub arrives tomorrow too so that's gonna make me want to get this thing operational in a hurry... :)

Very nice indeed.

Very sharp, ebr! I love the stage design.

-Gary.

Thanks, Gary. Of course, your theater is the de facto standard for themed rooms. Extremely nice work.

EBR, you gonna follow in Ruben's footsteps and go for a home-made, curved SMX screen?

Looks good man! You certainly have made a ton of progress over the past month or two!

Scott - No. I'm not a glutton for DIY punishment like the Sandman ;). Actually, I don't really see the need for a curved screen in most HT sizes. I guess 12' wide might make sense but my screen is only 96" in 2.35 mode.

Jerrod - coming down to the wire here. We move into the house next Monday. I had wanted to get the theater finished by the time we moved in, but I had to wait too much on the rest of the construction process so that's not gonna happen. It should be close though - just some trim out and things like the ticket booth and fridge cabinet. Living in the same house will make it easier to work on too.

Here is another shot of my trim stained (and the carpet, for that matter). The picture doesn't really do it justice as I'm quite proud of how this is coming out. Looks very rich and lustrous (but not too shiny) in person.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6144684sm.jpg


Today, I tackled the hardest part of the soffit - the front where it meets the screen wall and proscenium. This is the hardest because of the junction with the screen wall and because of the different "depths" of the screen wall and the proscenium walls. I have to do the "inside corner" thing on the screen wall junction and the proscenium walls make that much more difficult. Also this is done with one 173" peice of GOM - on the ceiling. Then, I compounded the problem by cutting my fabric to pretty much exactly 173". This meant I had to have it lined up perfectly to fit on both sides. Doesn't sound so hard, I know but when you see how I have to attach it, maybe you will realize its a bit tricky. Cutting it a little longer would have made it much easier.

Anyway, here it is at first - tacked "upside down" to the screen wall.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6144685sm.jpg

You see how its just attached at the screen wall. I had to have it positioned exactly right so that, when cut to fit the proscenium, it would still reach to the side walls. I really didn't give myself even an inch of play here which was really stupid.

So here it is stapled to the screen wall (right at the top) and stretched to try and be sure it will reach the side walls. Unfortunately, my camera is one of the original digital SLRs from about six years ago and has a fixed lens so I can't get a wide angle one for shots like this. I have thought about replacing it but I really like it and it takes great pictures.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6144686sm.jpg

Now, put the furring strip in there up against the screen wall.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6144687sm.jpg

Finally, bring it back over the furring, cut to proper width and to follow the proscenium (stretching like crazy to get that one corner to the wall...) and staple it to the side of the light tray.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6154691sm.jpg

I'm going to put a piece of my normal trim as the lip on the light tray. Should look sharp but I need to try and find a source for a 12' piece of it. Lowes only has it up to 8' and I'd really like to not have a seam in the trim. If I can't find 12 footers then I'll scarf it and hope for the best.

DOH, I was scrolling down, looking forward to seeing what it looked like when done and BAM, no pic. How disapointing.... :)

Got the pic up. Probably not as exciting as you thought, though, Scott.

Here's the big (pun intended) news for today:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6154690sm.jpg

That's a Mickey D's large cup on that box. This baby is a monster and the temptation to get the room operational without finishing the details is gonna get really bad now...

I love those boxes. I got one delivered last month. Just the thought of what's hiding under that cardboard brings a smile to my face. :D

That's a big box.... I need one of those :)

The room is coming along nicely.

The flush mounted pine trim looks really good, great idea.

Got the pic up. Probably not as exciting as you thought, though, Scott.

Here's the big (pun intended) news for today:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6154690sm.jpg

That's a Mickey D's large cup on that box. This baby is a monster and the temptation to get the room operational without finishing the details is gonna get really bad now...
That thing is HUGE. Which model did you get? Also, where you looking at an HSU VTF3-Turbo also? I may be wrong, though.

ebr,

I love your room so far! I was a big fan of your last theater too for that matter. I'm sure its hard to "one up" yourself each time.

I have a question about your columns. You said you want the center sections to be removable which sounds like a great idea. But how do you cover them with fabric, and at the same time attach them to the wall with something removable? Screw heads would be covered with fabric. So do you use magnets like Bud did with some of his panels? Grill guides? How will this work? I'd like to do the same thing.

First off - sorry for the long absence. We've been moving the past several days. The house is finished (well, except for all those annoying little things the builder still had to fix). The Theater, alas, is not and I have not had a single minute to work on it. Hopefully by this weekend I can pick it up again.

Steve Withey- It is huge. Its the PB12+/2 - 2 12" drivers and 900 watt amp. Its a beast and I haven't even had a chance to really try it out yet. I will say that when I took it out of the box I started giggling like a 12-year old who just farted in church. The thing is just massive. I've pretty much had my eye on this baby all along and I had to re-design my front stage a bit in order to fit it in there.

Steve Johnson - Thanks. I have tried to do a little bit more and a little better each time. This one is definitely the most work and hopefully will be the best. The column middles will just sit in there - held by gravity and friction. They will be removable, but I don't anticipate having to remove them very much. In my past two rooms I had removeable fronts on the speaker columns and the only time I ever took them off was to take the speakers when I sold the house. In the second one, I never even did that as I left those speakers there.

Uh oh...it seems subwoofer problems are contageous.

I hooked up the "beast" and I have to say, I'm underwhelmed. It bottoms out before I can put out anything that I call very impressive. I definitely had more output from my single 12" Atlantic sub last time and I can get just about the same output out of my little 10"er in the next room.

I hope something is wrong with this sub cuz its just not cutting it at all. I have a message in to the boys at SVS but if there are other owners out here with similar experience please let me know. :(

It's a shame, since you were so looking forward to a good experience with this sub.

Yes, that thing should rock. Please let us know what SVS has to say about it.

Guess you could aways build something like SteveCallas' Avalanche 18 Sonosub. However, not sure if the wife would go for it :D Funny thing is he "is" married.. hmm wonder who wears the pants in that family ;)

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/507/110.jpg

OMG! That thing is huge!
And my family is laughing at me and calling me crazy because my HSU VTF3 got delivered a couple days ago. I had to buy it now while it was on sale. I'll email them all pictures of this and say, "Look, at least I'm not as crazy as this guy!".
Hope you get the sub issue figured out.

Hey EBR, maybe you can borrow J.L.'s water-heater of a subwoofer until you get yours figured out. He replaced his sono-sub with dual 18" Tempest into a tall stage.

Hey Eric

Where did you have the sub when you were playing with it? Also, did you actually take any SPL readings?

Bryan

I've tried a bunch of different things in troubleshooting with the SVS guys - different rooms even. It bottoms out at about 97db. The SVS guys say there is definitely a problem and two new woofers should be on the way to me very soon.

OK. Sounds as good as it can I guess. At least they're dealing with it quickly.

Too bad you're having a hassle.

Bryan

Been starting to get a little more done here and there. I promise updated pics tomorrow or the next day. Moving sux. But it is nice to finally be in the new house.

I've got the soffit fabric up all around and am now trying to figure out exactly how I'm going to trim out the columns. Room is completely functional now too, which is a problem :).

Here are a few pics from last week just before the move.

First, the beast in its place:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6154692sm.jpg

Other speakers in:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6154693sm.jpg

...and the screen (bottom panel is temporary):

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6154696sm.jpg

HD-DVD in this setup is absolutely stunning. I really can't imagine any picture quality being better.

Hopefully, some fresh shots tomorrow...

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6154693sm.jpg
Eric,

How is the timbre match between the Ascends and the Bigfoot? Are you happy with the Bigfoot's sound?

They sound great together. I had read info on a speaker shoot out done last year (by Steve Callas I believe) where the Rocket and Ascend sound was deemed to be almost identical. It seems to be the case as I find the front soundstage very smooth and I haven't spent any time tweaking yet.

One other thing I want to mention - I am soooo happy I went with a 2.35:1 setup. The movie experience is so much more real. "Big screen" movies like Apollo 13 are really bigger than life and have an extremely immersive feel (especially in HD) without the screen being huge. I am just zooming, not using a scaler or lens and it is fantastic (of course, I have buku pixels to work with). For those of you on the fence about doing one of these I say go for it. Really makes a big difference.

I replaced the drivers in my SVS today. THAT'S what I'm talking about. Muuuuch better. Now to calibrate, measure and EQ.... :D

Great news on your sub! Sounds like great service from SVS to take care of the problem.

I'll be very anxious to hear what you think of the acoustics. You said in another post that you were happy with the sound of your first room and the second room sounded even better. Now you're aiming to top both of those with this room and Bryan's help. I'm really rooting for you since I plan on working with Bryan for my room, too! And with this being your third theater I figure you've got a pretty well trained ear at this point and will really know what you're listening for! Keep us up posted! :D

I also have a question related to your screen. I've been "on the fence" a bit, but really leaning toward the 2.35 screen. So your post about that was definitely helpful. I'm just not sure on the size. So I was wondering if you're happy with the width you decided on -- and also what that width is, as well as the width of the room for comparison. Thanks.

Hey Steve - I still have a lot of calibrating (measureing and EQing) to do but, so far, I like the acoustics in the room a lot. My wife thinks we can hear even more detail than we did before. One thing I can tell right off the bat is that my bass response is much more even around the room with only minor EQ tweaking and not even trying to optimize sub placement yet. I have one Sting concert DVD where the guy is playing an upright bass that always hit right at my room resonances last time so it was always quite boomy and impossilbe to tame with anything. That same DVD has a very smooth response now.

Now, I think these improvements are probably due to a number of factors:

1) Better bass control treatments per Bryan's help.

2) Better speakers (and sub)

3) Better experience in what I'm doing - I mean you'd think on the third time I might get something right ;).

4) Different room.

On the screen - go 2.35 if you really like movies. If you plan on watching a lot of HDTV or other 1.85 material in your room, maybe I wouldn't recommend it, but for movies (most of the good ones are 2.35 or more) it is really a MUCH better experience. The screen is bigger and wider without being overwhelming because people and objects are the same size as they are in the 1.85/1.78 mode just your field of vision/experience/immersion is increased. This is exactly what cinemascope is all about.

My room is 14' 8" wide and my screen is 92" wide in 2.35 mode. That is very small by most standards out here, but I feel it is really perfect for my setup and preferences. My seating will be at about 9 1/2' and 12 1/2' with my preference being the back row (and that's where I have the audio tuned). HD-DVDs like Apollo 13 are absolutely incredible in their detail and immersion. If you are building a movie room put a movie screen in it if you can.

92" does seem on the small side compared to other screen sizes people mention around here. But I know the automatic tendency is to go too big. Hey, that's why I'm asking you -- third time around, I figure you know what you're doing!

I may have to get my projector a little early to help with that decision -- just have to be careful with that, I know... ;)

Screen size is a personal preference, but 92" from 10-13' away is a pretty big screen (to me anyway).

What I always tell people is to pay attention the next time they go to the movies (at the big cinema). Where do you sit? Front row, middle, back...? Pay attention to how much of your field of vision the screen takes up when you get your favorite seat. Then try to match that relative experience with your screen size and seating distance at home.

The actual screen size is really meaningless (but people like to say they have a 12' or whatever gargantuan size screen). Its the relative size based on your seating distance that matters. The smallest screen you can get that gives you that experience you want is the right one because the smaller the screen, the easier it will be to throw a great image on it (brightness and resolution suffer the bigger you go).

Where do you like to sit at the theater (big cinema)?

Looking good - love the colors! :D

Randy

Thanks, Randy.

Worms - I'm a "middle of the stadium section" kind of guy. Maybe even 60% up that. Basically, I like to position myself so my eyes are close to the middle of the screen height.

Got you. So you are right it makes sense on you size of screen you picked.

Great job so far by the way!

Okay, finally back to work on the room. Here is how I'm going to trim out the columns. I tried a lot of different materials and, in the end, the material I'm using for the rest of my trim is the only thing that really looks right. The consequence of that is that I have to manufacture my own v-groove to get the look that I want. So, to work with a 45deg chamfer bit I went...

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6304762sm.jpg

Also means I've got a lot more staining and cutting to do. Oh well...

Here's a closer look at the v-groove section:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6304765sm.jpg

(hmmm...that picture is revealing a little bubble in the column fabric I need to address)

Also, since I got the drivers replaced in my SVS (and got my BFD in), I've worked a bit on the EQ for the sub. Here it is so far. I'm very interested in any comments anyone has on this - especially Bryan... :)

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/subcorrected.JPG

The response is pretty flat within a couple of plateaus here - one from about 33hz down and the other about 37hz up with my one main null in the middle. I don't mind the high plateau on the lower stuff as I LOVE the low bass this monster puts out :D.

That's all for now. Hopefully, progress will be coming a lot faster now.

Well, I'm not sure how much better you'll really get. You're basically < +/- 3db from < 20Hz to 70Hz. Generally, if you can get a room within +/-5, you're doing pretty well. Now we just need to get the mains integrated into this and see what the overlap between the 2 does to the response.

Bryan

More trim work today. Got one whole side of columns done and got the lip on the light tray.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7024768sm.jpg

The flash always washes the colors out and makes the trim look dull. Here's an attempt at a shot in natural light.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7024771sm.jpg

I guess that really isn't any better. You can see that I did run out and buy some of that blue rope light that Ruben put in. Makes for a much cooler ambience light.

Just incredible. I hope mine turns out half as nice.

I guess that really isn't any better. You can see that I did run out and buy some of that blue rope light that Ruben put in. Makes for a much cooler ambience light.
Eric,

Anyway you can share some more shots of the blue rope lighting against the Volcano ceiling? I'm trying to convince the wife to go blue vs. clear but she wants to see it in action.

Definitely don't go clear. If she wants a yellowish light, go with a frosted or white color. The clear throws all kinds of weird shadows. But, do what you can to convince her cuz the blue is pretty cool.

Here's an attempt at another shot. I don't know how Ruben got such a great photo of his. I'm finding it quite difficult.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7024773sm.jpg

A tripod would help, I guess and it looks like I've got a dust problem on my camera as well...

Anyway, that's what I can do tonight. Hope it helps.

How are you doing your 2.35:1 without an anamorphic lense?

Thanks in advance

Whoa.
Now that looks cool.
For a minute I thought you put in a star field.

How are you doing your 2.35:1 without an anamorphic lense?

Thanks in advance

Just using lens zoom and shift. Since I have 1080 vertical pixels to work with, my zoomed 2.35 image has more resolution than a 720p image with a lens. The downside is brightness and the hassle of having to re-position. Brightness hasn't been an issue so far. My previous projectors have been CRTs and this Ruby is brighter than any of those. And the hassle hasn't been a big deal so far because, I'm finding it pretty hard to watch anything other than 2.35 movies in there as they just look fantastic.

Just using lens zoom and shift. The downside is brightness and the hassle of having to re-position.
Is the wife able to make the adjustment without your help? That was my concern until I purchased a lens.

Just using lens zoom and shift. Since I have 1080 vertical pixels to work with, my zoomed 2.35 image has more resolution than a 720p image with a lens. The downside is brightness and the hassle of having to re-position. Brightness hasn't been an issue so far. My previous projectors have been CRTs and this Ruby is brighter than any of those. And the hassle hasn't been a big deal so far because, I'm finding it pretty hard to watch anything other than 2.35 movies in there as they just look fantastic.

Are you losing part of the image by doing this (sorry for my ignorance but I'm trying to understand 2.35:1 without an anamorphic lense).

Regards...Mark

Is the wife able to make the adjustment without your help? That was my concern until I purchased a lens.

Not a chance.

However, the wife will pretty much never watch anything in this room without me - she just isn't into movies enough that she would do that on her own.

Are you losing part of the image by doing this (sorry for my ignorance but I'm trying to understand 2.35:1 without an anamorphic lense).

No. The part of the image that "bleeds" off the top and bottom when zoomed is the black bars. Its not noticeable at all against my screenwall (which is black GOM). In reality, zooming will preserve the image more correctly than using a lens as there is no digital scaling/squeezing going on and no abnormalities introduced by additional optics (pincushion, chroma separation, etc.).

No. The part of the image that "bleeds" off the top and bottom when zoomed is the black bars. Its not noticeable at all against my screenwall (which is black GOM). In reality, zooming will preserve the image more correctly than using a lens as there is no digital scaling/squeezing going on and no abnormalities introduced by additional optics (pincushion, chroma separation, etc.).

Just remember that when you leave the black areas to fade away into oblivion, you loose brightness compared to using a lens. If you get a lens, you fit the actual image(no black bars) to the full projected image and then that gets squeezed to fit, which makes everything fit perfectly on the screen with no distortion. By doing this, you get the full brightness of the projector and don't loose the extra pixels. That is the theory anyway, I don't know how well it really works, but the theory is good.

Yes, that is the theory, but there are trade-offs.

Brightness isn't an issue for me right now so that's not a plus. And the extra processing and optical distortion (any anamorphic lens is technically a distortion) can introduce other trade-offs.

To stretch the image to the full panel will require a good scaler to take an image who's source is about 800 or so vertical pixels (for HD-DVD) and distribute it across 1080 pixels. This can introduce artifacts. Then, to get it back to the proper aspect, the lens must stretch the image optically in the other direction. This will possibly introduce yet more artifacts (pincushion, chroma separation).

One more tradeoff to the lens is it is a bit of a butt-ugly approach. You have to configure some sort of weird contraption to hang a big boxy lens in front of the projector. Unless you want to pay $4k for an Isco and then rig some sort of weird contraption to hang a nice round lens in front of your projector.

The final trade-off to the lens approach for me is cost as it would cost me about $3k to use a lens with my setup.

So, there are trade-offs to both approaches and, since the main trade-offs of lack of brightness and loss of display resolution (note, the source resolution is the same either way) without a lens are not problems for me, I'm good with the zooming for now.

Well, I got the tripod out and re-familiarized myself with my camera and here is a slightly better shot of the rope light.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7034787sm.jpg

Same dust "starfield". I think that's on the panel so maybe that is another excuse to go for that Rebel...

EBR, The star effects you are seeing in your pics are common in a lot of digital cameras. The CCD inside generates a little noise (the stars) under long exposure times. Newer cameras and high end cameras dont seem to have as big of an issue with this.

If you use photoshop, you can run it through the noise filter and it will clean it up.

Ronnie

ebr, you should try shutting off your overhead lights. I think thats what's washing out the picture when you are shooting the rope light. My room was really dark with the overhead lights on low and the rope on high. Obviously the camera makes a slight difference too :)

By the way, the theater is coming along incredibly.

Ruben

Ronnie - That's definitely dust not digital noise. Its exactly the same in each picture and notice that its also there in the other pictures. You just can't see it as well. My camera used to be high end - its one of the first consumer digital SLRs ever made - but its heavy and has a fixed lens so I'm looking for an excuse to replace it with one of the new Canon's.

Ruben - I did have the main cans on pretty low but I'm sure if I fiddled with it some more I could do better. Thanks for the comment - high praise indeed from the czar of DIY theater building ;).

Definitely don't go clear. If she wants a yellowish light, go with a frosted or white color. The clear throws all kinds of weird shadows. But, do what you can to convince her cuz the blue is pretty cool.

Good news. I showed the wife the color in action and she loved it. We also went to a restaurant over the 4th and they had blue too. She still liked it -- so I'm in :)

Thanks for the pics!!

In the home stretch now - trying to finish the columns. I have to say, I'm pretty tired of staining material about now. I've done about 375 feet of material and I'm not done yet.

Anyway, here's a speaker column being finished out:

First, I'm putting some tape caulk on the back of the angle irons to damp them. May not really need it but this stuff does make a big difference when you "thump" on them. Before the carpet went in, if one of these sections was sitting on the floor and you walked by it you could hear the metal "sing" so I don't want to take any chances.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7054815sm.jpg

The small section without caulking is right in front of the tweeters.

Then, fabric applied.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7054816sm.jpg

Here is the removeable part sitting next to the column base and top on the wall (before trim).

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7054817sm.jpg

Now in place.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7054818sm.jpg

And, finally, with the trim applied.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7064820sm.jpg

Two more columns to go. Then just a couple of fabric sections at the entrance, the fridge cabinet and, last, the ticket booth. Gosh, I better get back to work...

Here is the removeable part sitting next to the column base and top on the wall (before trim).
http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7054817sm.jpg
Eric,

What do you plan to do about the up/down firing woofers in the Axiom QS8s? I don't think you want them firing up/down into the column cavities (even if they are filled with pink stuff). When I called Axiom about this very thing, they recommended I build a cone to deflect the sound out into the room. They are not hard to build and you can easily install them without any modifications to your columns. You will scratch your head a few minutes on the angles and wish you had paid more attention in HS Geometry :D.

Here is the prototype I built a while back with some scrap pine. It took me about 10 minutes to build (and it looks like it) but you'll get the idea.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/cone.jpg

I've thought about doing that very thing because I saw your "deflector" a while back. However, I have had these guys in those positions for a while now and I find it hard to believe I will be able to hear the difference between the way they are now (just open) and with a deflector.

Maybe I'll mock one up and see if I can tell anything.

I've thought about doing that very thing because I saw your "deflector" a while back. However, I have had these guys in those positions for a while now and I find it hard to believe I will be able to hear the difference between the way they are now (just open) and with a deflector.

Maybe I'll mock one up and see if I can tell anything.
Let me know -- I'm curious if you hear a difference. I've only heard great things about the QS8s and how well they do at surround duty.

Looks really good Eric! Nice combination of the fabric and wood!

I hate to Hijack but I am curious abou the cones above....

Are they placed vertical in the column or what.....I cant quite seem to picture it for some reason.

Thanks....Robert

I hate to Hijack but I am curious abou the cones above....

Are they placed vertical in the column or what.....I cant quite seem to picture it for some reason.

Thanks....Robert


My understanding is that the cones are made to be hard reflectors. Since there is a woofer top and bottom on those speakers, you would have a reflector on the top and bottom of the speaker, the cone point always pointing at the speaker.

Eric, great job on the HT. Third time's a charm, eh?

A couple of questions if you don't mind:

1. What are the heights of your soffit and upper ceiling?

2. Could you share your opinions on the Ruby in comparison to your Marquee? I'm currently running an 8111, but know that I'll one day switch to digital.

Thanks.

Looking great, Eric!

Got a question for you on those columns. Since the middle section is made to be removable, is the trim between sections attached only to the removable part? Or is there another trick to it?

Thanks.

RSBerg - Scott is correct in his description.

Matt - Thanks and the ceiling heights are about 8, 9 and 10' depending on where you're standing. So, if you're in the middle of the front floor section - its 10' (actually 10'1" I think) if you're under the soffit on the raised rear portion its 8'. Make sense?

I was in your boat on projectors - had two CRTS - loved them - hadn't seen a digital that would make me switch. But, on this build I really wanted to go digital because I was tired of dealing with that huge beast and I had the HVPS go out on me twice. I had my eye on the Ruby since the fall when everyone started talking about it and I followed the discussions as people first got them in. In short, I'm very happy with it. The blacks are not quite what they are with a good CRT but everything else is as good or better. HD-DVD on it is absolutely stunning - better than any image I've ever seen in my rooms or a cinema.

Steve - You are correct. I designed them so that the trim that runs around the room above/below the green fabric overlaps the removeable section of the column by about a 1/2 inch. So that trim is just attached to the removeable portion and it hides the place where the three peices of column come together.

A bit more progress past couple days. First, a delivery...

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7074852sm.jpg

Berklines! Now... I have to get those things to the basement.

Here is the front row in place. They don't really look anything like this in person. The flash lights up all of the fibers in the micro-fibre and makes them look all shiny. They're not.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7084854sm.jpg

Now, a couple of other small projects going on simultaneously. First, the frame for the lower part of my screen wall - built, painted and waiting for the extra Black GOM I ordered (came up a little short).

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7054814sm.jpg

And, then, the back fridge cubby. I had planned to frame out the rear wall about 10" because we wanted to turn that into a bass absorber. After seeing my room response Bryan wasn't sure we'd need it but said to try it temporarily and make sure it didn't hurt anything so I did and it doesn't seem to hurt so, on the chance it helps, I'm going ahead and doing it.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7084853sm.jpg

After thinking about it a bit, I figure the 8 stuffed, upholstered chairs I'm putting in there are going to have a bigger effect on the sound than anything else I'm doing at this point.

Just for clarity, that back corner was planned to be done this way. The thought with the experiment was that he was happy with what he had prior to doing this. Some people have different preferences in the bottom end - hence the temporary mount to allow him to make his own decision.

Bryan

Hey Bryan - thanks for the clarification. What would you expect the audible impact of that treatment to be? I didn't really notice much in either the response graph or listening to the bottom end except that I now have to turn the system up louder to get the same perceived volume. However, I attributed that phenomenon more to the chairs than that treatment... is that a correct assumption?

I'd say yes. The chairs are providing considerably more absorbtion down low than the area covered by that rear corner. My expectation for the back corner prior to adding seating would be to help a bit more with some non-axial modes and provide a small amount of additional decay time reduction across the spectrum.

Since you have the chairs in there now, if you can, try it again with and without that rear corner. The difference is likely to be subtle - and even moreso since the decision is between some additional 2" 703 and the thicker, more broadband that you have up now.

Bryan

Hello ebr,
I just spent a tidy sum of time reading through your whole thread...from start to here.

First... Good work! and Congratulations for being able to do it. :)

I too have been trying to build a HT in the basement for about an year now; but that project gets pushed back for some or the other reason. I will too start a thread for that project here soon.

Good luck!
-Rajiv

Here are a few pics from last week just before the move.

First, the beast in its place:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6154692sm.jpg




I think you have room for another sub. :D ;) :D
nice theater. So why do you call it the farm house theater? :)
Do you truly live in an older farm house?

Craig

Eric,

That Bigfoot is HUGE. The sub is massive (just the way I like 'em). Those chairs look extremely comfortable -- hope you don't fall asleep in them ;) The SMX screen material looks great too. I decided to use the same material for my HT -- thanks for sending me the material sample.

BTW -- I sent 1/2 of the sample to bpape for his review. Once things slow down a bit for him, he's planning to give it a quick listening test.

Rajiv - Thanks and good luck getting your build off the ground.

Craig - We now live in a brand new farm house. Well, kinda. Its designed to look like a farm house and our neighborhood is called "The Farms". Pine floors, exposed ceiling joists etc.

Steve - yes, the bigfoot is huge but I'm actually thinking about trying another 340SE as a center channel. The timbre match between the Ascends and Rocket is not as good as I had hoped. I'm thinking about ordering a third 340 to compare.

Also, just FYI, that's a Dazian screen. I had issues with the SMX and prefer the Dazian.

Steve - yes, the bigfoot is huge but I'm actually thinking about trying another 340SE as a center channel. The timbre match between the Ascends and Rocket is not as good as I had hoped. I'm thinking about ordering a third 340 to compare.

Also, just FYI, that's a Dazian screen. I had issues with the SMX and prefer the Dazian.
Yes, I remember that now about the screen - sorry :). You had some moiré issues because you could not tilt the material. Also, I think the Dazian is slightly more AT.

As far as the center channel, another 340SE would be perfect. Since I'm going AT now, I will have (3) identical speakers across the front stage too.

Bryan - too late. I had already stapled it in and covered with fabric since the response seemed to be none the worse for it. Since it was in the original design, I figured it was best to have it.

Also, I don't have all the chairs in yet as I'm still working on the final touches and need the space :).

A couple small developments today. It seems Guilford has a bit of an issue spelling "Mooresville". Apparently, in their version, it came out Morrisville (which happens to also be a city in NC) so my 5yds of black fabric I've been waiting on is sitting at a UPS distribution point wondering where in the hell its supposed to be. Hopefully, it will get here tomorrow.

In the mean time, I have prepared the lower panel for the screen wall by putting these little "tabs" on the inside.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7114856sm.jpg

They will serve as friction holders to keep the panel in place under the screen.

Here it is in place (without fabric):

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7114857sm.jpg

The other development is I finally got the pre-processor I will actually be using in the room (been using the one destined for the TV area outside the Theater thus far).

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7114858sm.jpg


I know its a receiver but at half the price and with twice the features, its a pre-pro for me. Gonna dig into the manual right now...

Very nice receiver (sorry pre-pro) :)!

What amps are you running again?

A Lexicon NT512 and NT212 along with an old pro audio QSC. The Lex amps are re-badged Brystons. I'm using the QSC right now for my center channel (the bigfoot) because it was overdriving the Lexicon amp. The bigfoot is a 4ohm speaker and I guess the Lex isn't really designed for that - another reason I'm considering replacing it with a 3rd Ascend.

The other development is I finally got the pre-processor I will actually be using in the room (been using the one destined for the TV area outside the Theater thus far).

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7114858sm.jpg

I know its a receiver but at half the price and with twice the features, its a pre-pro for me. Gonna dig into the manual right now...
Eric,

Let me know how you like the Pio Elite as your Pre-Pro. I was thinking about doing the same thing except with the VSX-72TXV. Also, check your PM in a few minutes.

Still waiting on my fabric to get out of UPS limbo. They promised it was on the truck for delivery today, but it didn't get deilvered here.

So, I did some other detail work, some more staining (maybe the last of it...) and got my new Pio Elite pre-pro hooked up. I decided to give the Pio a clean slate and took my BFD completely out of line and ran the MCACC setup.

Wow. I have got to hand it to the guys at Pioneer. That auto correction tightened up everything. Much more detail and ambiance all around. Even my wife could hear it. And the bottom end, well, I may have a BFD for sale because that thing did a much better job in about 3 minutes than I did in a few hours with the BFD and REQW. Tomorrow, I'll take some measurements and see what the response looks like but I have to tell you it sounds incredible. I got what I was hoping for and now have a room that sounds even better than the previous two. The bottom end especially - it reaches out and grabs you in the gut but at the same time it is very natural and musical on music. I love it.

Up until now I've been using an HK 435 in there. It has auto setup and EQ too (but no low freq) but it can't hold a candle to MCACC - not even close.

I've been going through all my reference concert DVDs (Eagles, HFO and Clapton being the main ones) and have just been blown away (and shaken from the inside). Unfortunately, I must go to bed now...

Wow. I have got to hand it to the guys at Pioneer. That auto correction tightened up everything. Much more detail and ambiance all around. Even my wife could hear it. And the bottom end, well, I may have a BFD for sale because that thing did a much better job in about 3 minutes than I did in a few hours with the BFD and REQW. Tomorrow, I'll take some measurements and see what the response looks like but I have to tell you it sounds incredible. I got what I was hoping for and now have a room that sounds even better than the previous two. The bottom end especially - it reaches out and grabs you in the gut but at the same time it is very natural and musical on music. I love it.

Up until now I've been using an HK 435 in there. It has auto setup and EQ too (but no low freq) but it can't hold a candle to MCACC - not even close.
That is great news. Thay may help me make the decision to get that over the new HK AVR 645 (http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.aspx?Region=USA&Country=US&Language=ENG&cat=REC&prod=AVR%20645&sType=C). Keep us posted on your results.

That is great news. I've been anticipating the release of the new Pioneers for some time now. Reading stuff like this is going to push me over the edge.

Glad to hear you're happy with the results. Though I must say I'm very surprised that you got better results with the Pioneer AutoEQ than with the BFD. The BFD takes a bit of work but it's SO flexible in what it will let you do - especiallyl for the money.

Better make sure you really want to sell it - I suspect you'll have 100 PM's wanting to buy it.

Bryan

Ya know, Bryan its definitely possible that its operator error on the BFD approach but I've done this kind of EQ before with good results. Most likely, its just that I didn't spend the requisite time required to really get it right.

It could also be that the Pioneer isn't really aiming for "flat" response, but rather a response that most people will like. But I took some measurements and found that the MCACC got an even better response curve on the low end than I had managed and it followed the target response curve pretty well - so maybe that's not a good theory either. Somehow, the nulls are gone completely below 70hz. But also, it was able to tighten up all the rest of the channels - something I hadn't spent much time attempting yet. But, I was surprised too at how well the auto EQ did. I was prepared to go without it until I heard the results.

In any case, I think the combination of better treatments (thanks to you) better sub and other speakers and this unit are making for a fantastic result. Whatever it is - I'm just giddy over it.

Interstingly, I'm starting to clip my amps when I really crank it. I can't ever recall doing that in my previous two rooms (same amps) and I pushed it as hard as it would go. I'm not hearing any audible distortion but I'm getting red lights on the hard attacks when I turn it way up. Its got me thinking about replacing the amps as they are only 120w/ch but I'm worried it will cost a lot of money to get any better than these Lexicons (Brystons).

ebr,

How were you able to cut the curvature of the plywood so well for your stage? I'm about to build mine, and I'm not quite sure on how to cut the plywood to match the curve on the frame.

Shareware - see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7343019&&#post7343019) for how I did it. Its not really that perfect, but carpet covers up a lot of flaws... ;).

Thanks so much for the link.
What made you decide to use plywood for the front peice rather than kerfed lumber? Obviously, the plywood seems a lot easier to use.

Finally got my black fabric. I had to have Guilford re-send it because UPS lost track of the one that had the wrong address. Anyway, got the bottom screen wall panel covered and in place.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7174887sm.jpg

Also got the other last bits of fabric up so on to the final touches.

One of my recessed cans ended up needing a socket extender because it was under the soffit so had the 1" of drywall plus the furring for the fabric which left the bulb way up above the trim. I saw the extenders that Bud got but I think he said they were like $3 a piece plus shipping so I went this direction:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7154881sm.jpg

Its one of those things that lets you turn a keyless light into an outlet too - called a current tap. Of course, I don't need the outlet, but it serves to extend the bulb down just the right amount, it was $2 bucks and was readily available.

All that's left now is the ticket booth at the entrance and the final facing on the sides of the fridge cabinet - oh no...more staining... :(. Well, this will be the last of it.

I've got the bottom door on the ticket booth

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7174888sm.jpg

and am working on the upper door that will be the ticket window. Here are the pieces I'm using:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7174884sm.jpg

and here's how it will go together:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7174883sm.jpg

I think I'll paint the letters black and the rest of the wood will be stained. The picture is a blow-up I had made of the cool intro that reaper did for me. Looks sharp.

ebr,

I have read through this whole thread and am very interested in building one in my next house. My family has been in the construction business for years and my father was a drywaller for 17 years. My question to you is, excluding the cost of the audio gear, what do you think the materials cost would be for a room similar in size to your project? - starting with a white box room(which is just drywalled and tape/finished)

(you can pm if you do not want to post this publicly).

I am just curious what it would cost me, considering the labor would be done by me and the audio equipmet will obvioulsy vary anyway.

Great thread though :)

Thanks,
Brandon

Hey Brandon - the materials will vary too depending on things like how much trim and what kind of trim you use, what interior details you want and how they are finished out, the exact fabric (some is more expensive than others) the amount of acoustic materials needed, etc. But, I'd say it could be as little as $2000 depending on all those things.

Here are some of my costs in this build:

Fabric - ~$900
Acoustic materials - $700
Lumber and other materials - ~$2000
Lighting controller - $560
Light fixtures - ~$500
Cabling (in wall)- $150 (I had some 12ga in-wall speaker wire left over from last build)
Acoustic design - ask BPape but its worth every penny

Looks great! The front wall looks very nice.

I really like the ticket window you are doing. Can't wait to see yours and Bud's ticket window done.

Screenwall looks great! Makes a HUGE difference once the black GOM is on, huh?

Are you going to do a "porthole" on your ticket window? How are you going to cut it? Are you going plexiglass?

Bud

Thanks EBR,

A few more questions if thats ok. The GOM Fabric you are using, does that come in any shades of white or similar?(this can be used to conceal the speakers or is it something different)? A dumb question, what does GOM stand for? Where is a good place to purchase this, online?

This is all fairly new to me, sorry ;)


Brandon

GOM is Guilford of Maine. Specifically the normal fabric to hide speakers and treatments is FR701 - 2100 series. It comes in 48 colors. There isn't a white but there are a few shades of tan depending on what hue you need.

Bryan

White is not typically a color used due to the fact that you want the room to not be very light reflective. Are you looking to just cover a speaker panel? If so, you could use white speaker grill cloth for that.

Bud - it is plexiglass and no porthole as mine will have the poster behind it. The last one had a curtain in there to look like a real ticket window but I still didn't have a porthole/speaker. Just was too difficult an item to take on this late in the game :).

Thanks Bryan.

EBR -
The white would be for my fathers project at his new home. He will be building cabinets for some speakers and will cover the area with white speaker fabric which I found on-line through a different company. But now I know what GOM is and where to buy it from. Is GOM the main supplier that most people are using for their theaters?

Thanks guys,
Brandon

Yes, GOM is the standard for acoustic coverings. There are a few others but most use the Guilford stuff. I've used it three times :).

I lack a good wide angle lens, but here is a rough composite of the room substantially complete:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/compangle1wscrnsm.jpg

Pretty sweet. Is that a phootshop of the screen capture or is that a screen shot? Looks like a great picture, although it's slightly tilted! :)

That's an actual screen shot, but, of course, not with that lighting on it.

I took the shot once with the lights up and then again with them down and the movie on. Then stuck them together.

Holy Crap Batman -- your room looks great! What a great job. I love the 2.35:1 screen.

I'm still contemplating if I want to do base and crown on the screen wall. Bud did and you didn't. Both look good. Hmmm :confused:

Looking great, ebr, looking great. The sign on the previous page was very nicely done :) Will you be doing any gaming in this room or movies only? Wow, the GOM turned out fabulous.

Looking great, ebr, looking great.....Wow, the GOM turned out fabulous.

It should look great as his technique has been developed over the course of the previous two theaters! I thought the first one looked great and showed my wife pics of if before we really got into the construction of ours....

Thanks guys. I updated that picture to be a little better composite.

Hopefully, I'll get that ticket door finished today and then get some more final shots.

Thank you everyone for the help along the way but especially Reaper for the initial renders helping me exceed my previous rooms aethstetically and Bryan for helping me exceed my previous rooms sonically.

That comment made my day. I have been wondering how helpful the renders were since your final product deviated from the renders in so many ways. Glad you still believe that they were useful for you. :)

Craig - We now live in a brand new farm house. Well, kinda. Its designed to look like a farm house and our neighborhood is called "The Farms". Pine floors, exposed ceiling joists etc.




I see...
By the way... looks awesome. More pics would be great!! I love the colors.

Craig

Okay, finished the ticket door.

In keeping with doing this all completely by myself, here's how I mounted the door (the hinges I got don't come apart):

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7184912sm.jpg

Although, I think I may have stripped out the set screw on my tripod so this probably wasn't such a great idea.

Here it is finished from the front.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P7184915sm.jpg

Thanks again to everyone. I'm going to post a few finished pics in a new thread.

Well, here I go. Its been a whopping three months and I'm ready to rip a gigantic hole in my brand new theater. Hopefully, when I'm done, no one will be the wiser, but still...

I blame swithey. There. I said it. Its all his fault. In fact, I think it might have been his fault that I switched to a 2.35:1 screen during construction. Oh wait, that was one of the best decisions I ever made...thanks, Steve.

Anyway, from reading his thread and a few other tidbits here and there, I have decided to try and build an Infinite Baffle sub. Yes, I already have a room shaking SVS PB12+/2 hidden beneath my screen but, hey, when it comes to some things, you just cannot have too much horsepower.

So, here we go off on a new construction project. Thanks go to the guys out at the "cult" for getting me pointed in the right direction.

The first thing to do is build a box. This is not your ordinary box that a subwoofer would be built out of. Instead, this box is kind of an "inverted" box as it won't contain the speakers. Instead, they will actually fire into it. This is called a manifold design and it serves two purposes. One, it allows you to have a bunch of drivers without cutting a bunch of individual holes in the wall to contain them. Second, by mounting the drivers such that they fire into the box and each other, they knock down a lot of the mechanical vibration that can be associated with a bunch of big drivers vibrating madly.

My IB design will be a manifold with four 18" - no, that's not a typo - woofers in it. Due to my positioning constraints, only two of my woofers will be opposed to one another so I will have to take other measures to keep the wall from shaking down. My manifold will be sitting on the floor so it will be attached to the bottom of the wall. This will help keep some vibrations down. If its still a problem, though, I can fasten the whole thing to the concrete slab to bring it under control.

So, we start with construction of this manifold. The exterior dimensions will be 44"Long x 21"High x 24" Deep. This is the maximum size I can fit where the manifold will go. The box is built in two layers - an outer MDF layer and an inner OSB layer (check out the cult site to read the reasoning behind this but basically, you need a very stiff box).

Here is the start of construction of the outer box. I am doing this the same way I built my columns - using wood glue and finish nails with 2x2s as corner framing.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/boxconstrsm.jpg

And here is the completed outer box:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/outerboxsm.jpg

Now to cut the OSB pieces to create the inner box. More to come...

C'mon, we all knew you were a closet sub building wannabe! At least your out now! Oh, and at least you got your theater out of the way first... unlike some others around here. ;) :p :D

Bud

My IB design will be a manifold with four 18" - no, that's not a typo - woofers in it.

And here is the completed outer box:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/outerboxsm.jpg

Now to cut the OSB pieces to create the inner box. More to come...
Oh yea!! You make my (what I thought were huge) (4) 15" woofs look like toys. I would love to hear (and feel) your room during the LOTR Ring Drop scene some day. I still cannot believe you did it but am glad you did (and happy to be the BAD influence :D). I'll be right behind you with my build once I finish my LCRs.

And what does the wife have to say about it? Or does she even comprehend what she is in for?

Oh yea!! You make my (what I thought were huge) (4) 15" woofs look like toys. I would love to hear (and feel) your room during the LOTR Ring Drop scene some day. I still cannot believe you did it but am glad you did (and happy to be the BAD influence :D). I'll be right behind you with my build once I finish my LCRs.

And what does the wife have to say about it? Or does she even comprehend what she is in for?

Me: I think I'm going to build another subwoofer for the Theater.

Wife: Uhhh...but you already have that huge thing that you showed off to all your friends. And the Dining Room already shakes when you demo that alien monster movie thing (WOTW)...What will you do with that sub??? How much will this cost?

Me: Don't worry, I'll figure it out...

I built the inner box layer today. 3/4" OSB glued in (tacked to hold it while the glue sets) and all seams caulked generously. I need a brace in the middle of some sort but I also need some drivers. My intended supplier has gone AWOL so I'm in a waiting game now.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/ibinner.jpg

I think this sums it up. Click HERE (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/is_this_great.wav) to hear the audio.

Also, I figure audiogon will be your friend pretty soon so you can unload your SVS monsters?

I just ordered my drivers. Four of these babies:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Q18_170x356.jpg




Fs: 23.8 Hz (mine should have a lower Fs)
Re: 1.4 Ohms/coil (mine will have a single 4ohm coil)
Qms: 5.73
Qes: .63
Qts: .57 (my Qts should be a bit lower too)
Mms: 342g
Cms: 0.13mm/N
Sd: 1210cm^2
Vas: 268 l
Spl: 89.4dB 1W/1m
Bl: 15.1 N/A
Xmax: 27mm
Rms: 1000W
Sub OD: 18.500”
Cut ID: 16.750”
Mounting depth: 10.000”
Displacement: 0.24cuft

Yes, that will be a total of about 1cuft of displacement.

:D :D

[QUOTE=ebr]Way too many activities this weekend (3yr old's dance recital, 7yr old's cub scout graduation and I played in a tennis tournament) but got a little bit done on that back wall section with the thick absorber.

Here is 3" of OC 703 with FSK on part of it.


I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why is the FSK being installed over the OC 703?

Chris

I have a lot of absorption in my room and a lot of it is targeted at lower frequencies. Putting the FSK on the 703 makes it reflect (instead of absorb) the highest frequencies. So, this allows me to have enough absorption to tame the low frequencies without over-deadening the higher ones.

The amount and placement of the FSK (and all absorptive materials) was determined by Bryan.

Does the FSK reflect all frequencies or just upper end? If it reflects all frequencies, wouldn't it have been cheaper to not install the 703 panel in the first place? Or was this done to provide backing for the fabric wall covering?

Chris

I just ordered my drivers. Four of these babies:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Q18_170x356.jpg
:D :D
Is this the original 18" woof you wanted or another? I though you were getting concerned because there was ZERO response from the vendor?

And, you might want to contact the Gecko and get some earthquake insurance. Just read the fine print and find out if "owner created" earthquakes are covered :D

http://ypcommando.com/images/geico.jpg

BTW -- Freak'n awesome. I think I'll be able to feel those way over here in Texas.

Does the FSK reflect all frequencies or just upper end? If it reflects all frequencies, wouldn't it have been cheaper to not install the 703 panel in the first place? Or was this done to provide backing for the fabric wall covering?

Chris

Just the high frequencies. I'm not sure exactly how high. Maybe Bryan can comment if he is still poking around in here.

Steve - these are the original 18" woofers I had designed for. The company is very small and is really targeted at car audio. The whole company was at a car show for a week which is why I couldn't get a response from them. Once they came back, they were right on it and I am optomistic. The main designer is very highly regarded amongst the "woofer" people. He is going to custom build my drivers with specs more targeted at IB (thus the differences in the specs I noted).

The specs and price on these babies are just too good to pass up. My setup will displace about 27 liters of air for only a tiny bit more money than four of the SS 15s (which would displace a little less than 16 liters).

Steve - these are the original 18" woofers I had designed for. The company is very small and is really targeted at car audio. The whole company was at a car show for a week which is why I couldn't get a response from them. Once they came back, they were right on it and I am optomistic. The main designer is very highly regarded amongst the "woofer" people. He is going to custom build my drivers with specs more targeted at IB (thus the differences in the specs I noted).

The specs and price on these babies are just too good to pass up. My setup will displace about 27 liters of air for only a tiny bit more money than four of the SS 15s (which would displace a little less than 16 liters).
You are going to have one hell of a setup. Please report back with the results!

BTW -- I think your wife is going to freak out the 1st time she hears these things in action. Just think -- if you Play WOTW Chap 5, you WILL think the tripods are actually emerging from your room!

The Theater looks awesome! I am completely new to home theaters and hope I can build something that nice one day. One question can someone explain to me exactly what furring is?

The Theater looks awesome! I am completely new to home theaters and hope I can build something that nice on day. One question can someone explain to me exactly what furring is?

Just strips of wood used to bring the surface out to a specific point. When we put materials like the rigid fiberglass on the walls, we need to be able to stretch the fabric over it. We use these strips of wood along the sides of the fiberglass to create a surface the same depth as the fiberglass to which we can staple the fabric.

Here is a wall section with the furring and fiberglass. You see how the wood surrounds the fiberglass and is the same depth.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6044647sm.jpg

So that you can stretch the fabric over it and attach to the wood:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/P6044648sm.jpg

EBR,

I just got done reading through your entire thread and all I can say is wow. I love the theater. The colors are spectacular are the columns. congratulations on a nice piece of work.

John

Thanks, John.

Steve, if your results are good with those custom built woofers, do you think they would start marketing to the IB crowd?

Steve, if your results are good with those custom built woofers, do you think they would start marketing to the IB crowd?


oops - I think you forgot which thread you were in there Steve, uh I mean Scott ;).

They kind of already are as it was the culters who pointed me to them (Thomas, specifically). But, I think these guys are real small and very much car audio enthusiasts, so they don't spend a lot of time with the IB crowd. Also, by comparison, the car audio "bass boomers" have got to out number the IB guys at least a hundred to one. How many times a day do you pull up to a stoplight and feel the groove from the car three positions back of you?

So, to busy myself whilst waiting on my drivers I've constructed the brace for the manifold.

First I laminated two scrap pieces of OSB together to make a 1 1/2" slab sized to fit the inside of my manifold. I notched the back corners to allow for the small part of 2x2 framing that extends beyond the inner layer of the box.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA245144sm.jpg

Now, we want a brace but not to obstruct the sound wave too much so I want to carve out a major portion of this slab. This allows me to experiment and practice with the tools and techniques that will be required to make the driver cutouts so its a double-duty project.

Here is the home made circle cutting jig I made out of some luann I had left over from my theater build.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA245145sm.jpg

Applied to the slab and we now have a curved brace.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA245146sm.jpg

And here it is in place.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA245147sm.jpg

P.S. The utility of this particular brace design for my case is the subject of some debate right now. I'll update this when the dust settles...

oops - I think you forgot which thread you were in there Steve, uh I mean Scott ;).

They kind of already are as it was the culters who pointed me to them (Thomas, specifically). But, I think these guys are real small and very much car audio enthusiasts, so they don't spend a lot of time with the IB crowd. Also, by comparison, the car audio "bass boomers" have got to out number the IB guys at least a hundred to one. How many times a day do you pull up to a stoplight and feel the groove from the car three positions back of you?


Oops. I had both yours and Steve's threads open at the same time... :o

Actually, I don't get bass boomers near me too often anymore. Used too, I guess those guys went off and had kids or something! :D

The amp arrives tomorrow and the drivers on Wed. So, I've decided to go ahead and cut the outer insets for the drivers. I trust the OD measurement listed on the website (18.5"!!) but I want to wait until I can physically measure what the actual hole should be. The published cutout, I'm sure, is assuming an inside mounted orientation so I may need a slightly different cutout for the outside mount.

Anyway, I should be safe with the outside inset cut because there is wiggle room there. Here is the first pass with the 3/4" straight bit:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA305149sm.jpg

I did two passes - one just inside the other - to make a larger inset area so I'm sure I've got enough for the outer edge of the driver.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA305150sm.jpg

And here is the manifold with all the insets:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA305151sm.jpg

Seeing these circles in real life have started to make me think maybe I've gona bit overboard here with 18"ers... :eek:

I hope I don't knock any of the wife's knick knacks off the kitchen mantle!

When I first read the phrase "the wife's knick knacks" I was thinking, "I've never heard anyone call them 'knick knacks' before". But then I read "off the mantle" and figured out that you really meant "knick knacks" Don't know why I decided to share that but it made me chuckle a bit. Sorry. My wife tells me I have an immature sense of humor.

When I first read the phrase "the wife's knick knacks" I was thinking, "I've never heard anyone call them 'knick knacks' before". But then I read "off the mantle" and figured out that you really meant "knick knacks" Don't know why I decided to share that but it made me chuckle a bit. Sorry. My wife tells me I have an immature sense of humor.

ROFLMAO :D

Well, let's hope I don't knock those off either... :rolleyes:

Today's project (while waiting on drivers) was to relocate this electrical run so it won't be crossing in front of my outlet:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA105063s.jpg

It was feeding a receptacle I don't use in the Theater so I just pulled it out, moved the run and turned the receptacle around so I'll have another one in this storage area.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA315152sm.jpg

I also pulled the left forward column and some of the trim out so that I could expose the area where the outlet will be cut.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA315153sm.jpg

Finally, the EP2500 arrived on schedule today so I wired it up and put it into place. Here it is in my "pro stack" which is conveniently remote located in this same storage area (keeps the fan noise from being an issue).

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PA315161sm.jpg

Scott at Fi has convinced me to wire the drivers up in a bridged mono mode. The 2500 will deliver up to 600w per driver in this configuration. In his words, what's the point of buying 28mm Xmax drivers and only pushing them to 3m of excursion ;).

Drivers should arrive tomorrow and then we'll really be cookin' :D

Today I am making final preparations for the installation of the manifold. Here is the outlet area all blocked off:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015162sm.jpg

And [drum roll...] the point of no return...

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015163sm.jpg

All holes cut:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015164sm.jpg

From the other side:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015165sm.jpg

And, lookie, lookie what just showed up at my door. Four of these babies:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015166sm.jpg

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015167sm.jpg

OMG these things are HUGE. Now I am starting to get scared. I've got to figure a way to get these things down here and installed without the wife seeing them. :o

And, lookie, lookie what just showed up at my door. Four of these babies:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015166sm.jpg


Why do you need 4 copies of WOTW?

Now I am starting to get scared. I've got to figure a way to get these things down here and installed without the wife seeing them. :o

Yeah, my wife would be upset if I bought 4 copies of the same movie too... :D

LOL Chia... :D

Continuing the work today, here is the first driver hole cut.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015168sm.jpg

Fitting a driver to be sure it fits properly.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015169sm.jpg

And from the business end...

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015170sm.jpg

All holes cut, clamp holes measured and drilled and t-nuts hammered into the backside.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015172sm.jpg

And, finally, the manifold in its actual resting place:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015173sm.jpg

From the Theater side:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015174sm.jpg

Tomorrow is D-Day - hook it up and let 'er rip. Right now, I have to go take the wife out to dinner to further disguise what is going on down here...

....

Tomorrow is D-Day - hook it up and let 'er rip. Right now, I have to go take the wife out to dinner to further disguise what is going on down here...

I'm very curious how this turns out... looking forward to your comments.

Yesterday's progress:

I used foam tape around the mouth of the manifold to create a gasket where it meets the framing.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015175sm.jpg

And here is the hardware I used to mount the drivers. 3/4" conduit clamps, 10/24 machine screws, bonded washers and t-nuts. Nothing original because these seem to work very well.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB025176sm.jpg

And, just before the moment of truth - drivers installed and wired up.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB025178sm.jpg

Now, at that point, it got interesting. I have no doubt that I could completely tear my house down with this thing. That's kind of the problem right now. When I first started to try and dial it in yesterday my wife was giving me a look that only can be defined as the "that damned thing is resonating throughout the entire house and if you think you're ever going to turn that on while I'm here you've got another thing coming" look...

My mom was over last night as well and it literally drove her outside while I was trying to test out the depth charge scene in U-571. She was on a different floor. My theater was constructed to be isolated from the rest of the house (room in a room) and, I'm finding that worked very well. Of course, with the IB setup, that is shot.

I've got to see if I can dial it in so it doesn't affect the rest of the house as much but I may have to keep the SVS for normal use and only crank the "monster" when its guys "big loud" movie night.

I don't think I've even made these drivers try and break a sweat yet either.

My mom is over again this morning so I can't do much with it right now. Hopefully, I can work on EQ later today.

how did the "knick knacks" hold up?

At the moment, its my "knick knacks" I'm worried about...

I'm reading this while in the office and people are wondering why I'm laughing so hard. This is great.

LOL on MULTIPLE levels Eric!

OMG these things are HUGE. Now I am starting to get scared. I've got to figure a way to get these things down here and installed without the wife seeing them.
http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015167sm.jpg I had the same feeling about my 15s. I can only imagine the 18s.


Now, at that point, it got interesting. I have no doubt that I could completely tear my house down with this thing. That's kind of the problem right now. When I first started to try and dial it in yesterday my wife was giving me a look that only can be defined as the "that damned thing is resonating throughout the entire house and if you think you're ever going to turn that on while I'm here you've got another thing coming" look...
http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB025178sm.jpg Are you sure you aren't talking about MY wife? :D She does not have a clue about my woofer setup yet -- she hasn't even see them herself and hopefully never will :cool:


My mom was over last night as well and it literally drove her outside while I was trying to test out the depth charge scene in U-571. She was on a different floor. My theater was constructed to be isolated from the rest of the house (room in a room) and, I'm finding that worked very well. Of course, with the IB setup, that is shot. I was worried about that. That does make me feel a bit better since I did not do the room-in-a-room isolation like you did. Basically like MarkP said " Your neighbors a few streets over will hate you because of the noise"


Overall -- awesome!!


And now a few questions:

1) You used that 1/2" foam under the manifold. Is that anything special or just something you can get at HD or Harbor Freight?

2) Did you put any gasket material between the drivers and the manifold?

3) You attached the manifold to your existing wall with those metal stud connectors. Is that enough or do you plan to reenforce that with some extra 2x4s?

....And now a few questions:

1) You used that 1/2" foam under the manifold. Is that anything special or just something you can get at HD or Harbor Freight?

2) Did you put any gasket material between the drivers and the manifold?

3) You attached the manifold to your existing wall with those metal stud connectors. Is that enough or do you plan to reenforce that with some extra 2x4s?

The pad under the manifold is that "puzzle-piece" stuff they sell for you to put down on your shop floor as a cushion for your feet. I got it at Lowes.

These drivers have a large rubber surround on them that goes all the way around the frame so I didn't need any other material there.

I think the metal straps will hold fine but I guess time will tell.

Thanks for this. I had been thinking of a similar design for a new theater, and appreciate your comments. Looks great!

You've truly stepped over the edge. You might as well figure out how to blend the SVS in with the IB so you can use both of them when you want. :D

Bryan

You've truly stepped over the edge. You might as well figure out how to blend the SVS in with the IB so you can use both of them when you want. :D

Bryan

That's actually the way I'm thinking of going right now. Not because I think I would actually need both of them but I figure I can tune the IB for just the very low frequencies and the SVS almost just how I have it now. Then, I can use just the SVS for "normal" times (read as: when the wife and kids are home) and, when I really want that punch in the gut - like for guys movie night - I just kick on the IB and get some rubber pants.

Since I can't do much with the new earthquake generator right now, I've put the inside of the room back together.

Here is a shot into the manifold before I covered it back up.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB035184sm.jpg

Sorry, Scott. I tried to mount the drivers so the "Fi" was right side up, but that made the binding posts be on the bottom and wiring was just too tough so I had to go this way ;).

And here is the wall re-assembled. No one could ever suspect the monster that lurks behind there...

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB035185sm.jpg

For a brief time this afternoon, I was alone in the house and tried a couple of things. I dialed in a boost at 20hz and then some big cuts above that and played back the "ring drop" scene. I was at -12 on the pre and when that finger hit the ground I felt a seismic wave travel through my body. I went upstairs and re-played it and the entire house shook and rattled.

The wife came down later and happened to see the assembled monster for the first time and couldn't believe it. She just keeps asking "and why exactly do you need this thing?"

Oh man, I've done it now...

I don't know if you were talking about me when you were mentioning the logo's not being upright on the drivers, but I was gonna ask...

BTW, how much is your fabric moving when that sub is going? Not much since it is such a large area? I would think it would still be moving, but you won't normally see it since it's going to be dark!

I don't know if you were talking about me when you were mentioning the logo's not being upright on the drivers, but I was gonna ask...

BTW, how much is your fabric moving when that sub is going? Not much since it is such a large area? I would think it would still be moving, but you won't normally see it since it's going to be dark!

I knew you were anal, Scott so I thought I'd just nip that one in the bud...seriously, the head designer/honcho at Fi Audio is named Scott. He peruses some of these forums sometimes and was very helpful in designing these things for my installation so I just wanted to let him know I tried ;).

I haven't had a chance to check out the fabric movement yet. I don't think its an issue but it was definitely something I was worried a bit about. In the early going I was thinking I was going to put the manifold up in the upper section of fabric but I was afraid that large section would flap like a sail in the wind. Plus, when I actually started looking at the size of this thing I decided sitting on the floor was really the only practical option.

I have learned a few things today:

1) The boys at SVS build one hell of a sub. There is no doubt that the IB can go louder lower and with more impact overall but I discovered I hadn't even pushed my PB 12+/2 before now. I was very surprised how close I was able to get to the IB performance when I used the same sort of EQ techniques on the SVS as are recommended for the IB (low boost).

2) I didn't need four of these puppies. In an effort to lower the impact on the rest of the house (which didn't really work), I wired up just two of them and I can get more than enough output from them.

3) My wife is really not a fan of low frequencies :(

More to learn tomorrow, I'm sure.

I have learned a few things today:
2) I didn't need four of these puppies. In an effort to lower the impact on the rest of the house (which didn't really work), I wired up just two of them and I can get more than enough output from them.


Interesting. I wonder how many other IB culters have ever tried unhooking a few of their drivers to see what they really need? :rolleyes:


3) My wife is really not a fan of low frequencies :(


You are just figuring this out and you are on your third theater? :eek:

A couple things to toss around here. Size of room, 4 - 15" drivers pound you into submission in a 20' x 40' x 14' room using a single 1200w plate amp. IBs are drivers suspended in free air that take nothing to drive which concerns me that people are telling people you cant get full excursion of a driver without buying multiple amps. I can toast 4 -15" drivers with a 600w plate amp and rip the motors/spiders clean apart in an IB setup.

IB subs were designed by people that wanted clean, smooth, low musical bass. Not muddy, bloated bass you can place by closing your eyes and saying " your woofer is on the left wall in the front of the room"

I have a 5 year old Shiva in a sealed downfiring sub and it will rattle your teeth in a 13' X 30' room with 9' ceilings but it will never handle 10' longer and 5' higher. IB subs need more drivers because of their design and supension. Put on some music, close your eyes and lay back and listen/feel, you should have the efect that your almost floating or suspended by the music . Now do the same with a commercial sub.

If an IB is almost ripping your house apart and your trying to take drivers out, how can a SVS be close when using bass boost? We have a brick deck that wraps around 1 story below the theater and completely on the opposite side of the house, over 150 lineal feet away and the bricks shake as though theres an earthquake. Too me, its a whole different type of bass altogether. Powerful, clean and enveloping

3) My wife is really not a fan of low frequencies :(
Eric,

The wife and I were watching Batman Begins last night. Talk about a great movie with some wonderful LFE. Keep in mind I'm still running my single 8" sub until I get the IB built. The wife explained that the bass was too heavy/loud (It seemed a little weak to me :rolleyes: ). Looks like my wife does not care for heavy LFE either :(

Let's hope MarkP is right about the IB bass being smooth and enveloping (vs. boomy with a standard sealed/ported design). Oh well, I'll just sneak home from work one afternoon every other week and crank it when there is no one at home :D

A new scene to test your subs is the New XMen when the Lady is in the house suspending the guy in the wheelchair. Hold on tight and check for missing shingles, this scene is pretty scary on people that arent used to it and will clear a room. I admit I felt slightly nervous as it just would'nt stop for like 2 minutes it seems

3) My wife is really not a fan of low frequencies :(
I guess we are all sharing the same problem here? :rolleyes:

For my room I haven't started to build the sub (dual transmission line, two 12" drivers) but I know already that there will be a "watching movie together with my wife" and another "movie all alone - nobody in the house" amplifier setting for the sub.... ;)

Read your full post right now - great work and very nice room!

I guess I'm lucky. My wife is a bass head. Half the time, she wants me to turn UP the sub from the calibrated level.

Bryan

Mark - I agree, the IB is a different kind of sound - much lower and smoother and much more of a "pressure wave" when really big stuff happens (like the ring drop). The big SVS I have is a very capable sub but it can't produce that kind of pressure at those levels.

I think the SVS is much better isolated because my room was constructed well and it sits on a sand filled stage which ends up being just below the very front of my dining room (where no one ever is). Also, its not putting out the raw energy below 16hz that the IB is.

The IB is venting into the unfinished portion of the basement and happens to be right under the foyer of the main floor. When I get the room really going with the IB and you stand in the foyer the floor is literally bouncing underneath your feet. In the Theater it is doing exactly what I wanted but my wife is complaining about being in the kitchen (which is next to the foyer) and getting a headache from the [boom][boom][kablam] that just won't quit :).

The cult guys have made some recommendations to build some sort of psuedo enclosure to try and contain the backwave but I'm thinking that its gotta be just about impossible to stop a 110-120db 10hz impulse. I'm afraid I'd go to a bunch of trouble and not really do much of anything. But, I'm still thinking on it. Mark/Bryain if you have any suggestions from your experience, I'm all ears...

I'm going to try and tune the IB to just the VLF so I can just kick it on when I want it (read as: she's not home) and see how that does. I'm sure I could completely replace the SVS with the IB by EQing it properly, but this leakage issue is going to force me to keep the SVS in the mix, I think.

Really ebr Im not sure what advice to give other than try and get that bass outside, I was wondering about those that dont use the attic where a good portion can escape out the vents . I can only imagine how powerful the IB is in your home and your drivers havent broken in yet, these things get better with age from my experience. Also, I dont think building a folded horn or some sort of dampening is going to work, maybe a mountain of rockwool layered in a way that could force the backwave through a labyrinth of passages possibly absorbing slight bits as it passed but this would be a monsterous containment considering your use of 18" drivers but I think you could possibly tone it down. ASJ or FSK Rock wool is cheap so you coud buy a bundle or two and try building boxes around it leaving an opening in different spots as you built another box, and another always leaving the opening at an opposite end with the final hole firing into a decent stack of rockwool. you dont want to contain the back wave, just trap the heck out of it and mellow it down some. Rock wool is pretty powerful.

Imagine if you had made a manifold instead like some suggested, consider the effect of vibration this would have caused even though its just liters of air. You have windows downstairs?

Well, I think I've got a workable setup - for now anyway. I've tuned it so that the IB is supplemental so I guess I'm not going to be recouping any of the extra costs for building this thing. This way I can run just the SVS for "normal" really good bass when folks are around and just kick in the IB when I want to be blown away (and she's not home).

I originally started out trying to use the IB for nothing but the really low stuff (sub 40Hz) but I found the two subs blended much better together if I created a flatter response that matched the SVS from 20 up to 60 or so. I had to play with the phase control on the SVS to get it to blend properly but it is pretty darned good now. Actually, where you are in the room makes a difference on the phase (obviously) but I've got it so that the seating area is pretty consistent. Ironically, if you get right up next to the SVS sub, the bass dies as it is going out of phase with either the mains or the IB. No biggie as I don't plan to watch a movie under the screen ;).

Anyway, here's my "final" (for now anyway) plots for the two subs. Pretty obvious which is which.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/svsandibtuned.jpg

I still am thinking about whether it will be worth the effort to try and do something about damping the back wave. I really think I would have to build a true isolated enclosure to do that (like my theater room is) and then I would possibly compromise the whole IB thing in the process (if I couldn't get it big enough). So, for now, I'll see how much the wifey can tolerate...

So -- which one is the IB sub??? I can't figure it out :confused: :rolleyes: ;) :D

That IB does play well at those really low frequencies. That sells me on the design all by itself. I'm hoping since my IB vents to the outside because of the attic vents, it will not be as loud in my house.

I'll probably have a few different settings in my AVR... a LFE level at -10 when the wife is home (and at night) and one at 0 when I'm home alone :D

Here is the new monster's lair:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/monsterlair.jpg

I took Thomas' (of "the cult") suggestion and built a 2x4 frame around the manifold (out a couple feet) and then piled R-25 batts all around it. That's three full rolls of R-25 and I think it may have actually made a difference - at least on everything except the very lowest stuff - but I haven't had a chance to truly test it out yet.

I also need to take another in-room measurement and be sure I haven't messed anything up with the performance where its supposed to be.

Here is the new monster's lair:

I took Thomas' (of "the cult") suggestion and built a 2x4 frame around the manifold (out a couple feet) and then piled R-25 batts all around it. That's three full rolls of R-25 and I think it may have actually made a difference - at least on everything except the very lowest stuff - but I haven't had a chance to truly test it out yet.

I also need to take another in-room measurement and be sure I haven't messed anything up with the performance where its supposed to be.
Eric,

Please let me know how it works out. I could do something very similar in my attic area. In my case, I would only need to build a "wall" on one side since the other (2) sides are the roof line with vented eaves.

I wouldn't think the insulation would really mess you up. Putting insulation in speakers usually helps the enclosure seem larger. With IB bigger is better. IMHO.

Guys - after more testing today I'm afraid the insulation cage is only slightly helpful. Not really worth the $80+ it cost to build :(.

Yeah the pink stuff ( insulation simulates dead air) isnt going to put a dent in it, but 2" rockwool with multiple containments including gaps between them could possibly cure it. $80 would have got you the first containment done

I've thought about doing that very thing because I saw your "deflector" a while back. However, I have had these guys in those positions for a while now and I find it hard to believe I will be able to hear the difference between the way they are now (just open) and with a deflector.

Maybe I'll mock one up and see if I can tell anything.
ebr,

I'm just starting my home theater construction, and have eagerly been reading through your thread. Great work! I've gotten some great ideas from what you have accomplished.

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on Axiom speakers, and I am looking at QS4's for my surrounds. I've been going back and forth on whether to build columns for them or not. In talking to the Axiom rep, he advised against putting them in columns, because of the way the fire. That had almost settled it, then I found your construction thread.

I really like the design you used for the surround columns. Now that you have been in the theater for a while, how do you like them? Do you get a good surround sound field from the QS8's in the columns? Is there anything that you would have done differently, now that you are up and running?

Thanks for any feedback you could send my way. Congrats again on a great build!

-Daimion

I think my surround field is great. I ran them for a bit with the columns off and I cannot tell a difference between having them on or off. The way I have them designed, there really isn't any "column" around my speakers. Just a couple of small angle irons with holes in them.

I do have the QS8s not the 4s but I don't imagine that would make a difference either.

I took down the insulation cage. Was a big mess and not really doing much of anything anyway. Just turning on the IB when I can and living with the repercussions for now...

As an aside, man why didn't any of you tell me the background and home button on the web page for my new theater were missing...?? I just moved to a new machine and figured out it was referencing a local file (that's what I get for using Word to edit the thing). Anyway, I fixed it now. Sheese - you guys gotta let me know about that stuff. Don't leave me hanging with a sub-par presentation out there... ;)

Well, since you asked... Most of the links in your equipment rack section are broken. I never brought it up because I know that stuff can be a pain to keep up to date.

Thanks, Steve. I fixed the ones I could. I'm afraid some of my equipment is just so old that there are no links for it anymore :o.

Actually, I need to re-do the whole rack section because it has changed quite a bit. I think I'll wait until I decide what I'm gonna do with my current projects which are possibly setting up an HTPC and DVDLobby and getting a scaler and lens for my 2.35 setup.

Well Eric, I had not been paying attention to your web page, since I figured the good pics were on here! Whenever I pass on info on people's home theaters I pass on the AVS thread links and let the people read as much or as little as they want. Looks like I need to add a link to your new theater info on my links page too!

Eric.. beautiful theater.

I just didn't see where you had resolved your amp clipping issues...

It occured to me that maybe you Elite's EQ was pushing some frequencies that were causing your amps to clip..

Just curious what the resolution was...

Hey Mixer. Thanks.

I replaced one of my Lexicon amps with two QSC RMX1450s for my front soundfield. That solved the clipping issue in true Tim Allen fasion -- More Power! :)


All - I have been making some changes. I have installed my new Panamorph UH380 lens and have been re-working the setup with an HTPC and Cinemar software. I'm off to Vegas tomorrow for some R&R so further updates will have to wait til next week.

Vegas for R&R? Should have waited a week and could have had R&R as well as CES!

Eric,
Did you end up sticking with the Pioneer auto EQ settings? I remember you being quite impressed with the results, but it sounded like you might go back and give it another try manually.

Vegas for R&R? Should have waited a week and could have had R&R as well as CES!

I got out of there just as they were arriving. Couldn't talk the wife into going during CES - plus I'm not sure we could have gotten a room - at least one I would pay for.

Was a good time though - and I came out nicely ahead :).

Eric,
Did you end up sticking with the Pioneer auto EQ settings? I remember you being quite impressed with the results, but it sounded like you might go back and give it another try manually.

I do still use the MCACC settings but I've augmented them with the BFD and the IB sub. I think the IB goes too low for the MCACC to work properly. When I re-ran it with the IB it did a much worse job. So, I went back to the original settings and tweaked the IB manually with the BFD and REQW.

Eric, I have been to CES three times and the room rates were not bad and there are ALWAYS rooms available with the sheer number of rooms they have in LV, they simply can't sell out. The closest they probably come would be major fights or Nascar races or something. Of course, they always have the Consumer Electronic Show and the porn convention going on at the same time, so that makes for some interesting views...

Also, a few years back, my wife and I had room reservations all set and decided that we also wanted to see a show. 9 days before leaving for our trip, I got online and was able to get front row tickets to "O" with no problem....

Yeah - we've been there during CES/AVN as well (had some very interesting folks at some of our tables ;)). The real issue in not going that week this time was my wife didn't want me off at CES the whole time.

We got great seats to see Jay Leno (he was doing a quick 2-night standup at the Mirage) just a week before we went too. BTW - Leno was great. I've never seen him do a normal stand up and he went for 90 minutes solid and was very funny.

Okay, I made the promised updates in the rack section on my website as I've finished (for now) the updates and crossover to an HTPC for my std DVD playback. Here is the nitty gritty:

First, the new Panamorph:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/panamorph.jpg

The mount for this is currently very simple - a slab of 1/2" MDF that happens to sandwich perfectly between my ceiling mount and projector. I am going to paint it black and insert a piano hinge such that I can flip the lens up and away for HD-DVD viewing. I don't currently have a way to scale HD-DVD for the anamorphic stretch so that still has to be without the lens. Hopefully, in a few months TheaterTek will have support for an HD-DVD drive or I'll break down and buy an external scaler.

Now, the new rack layout:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/racknew.jpg

The major changes being the elimination of a couple of amps as those duties have been moved to the new Pro-amps that are remote-located now and the addition of the HTPC components. Those are:

- Progear touch tablet PC which runs my modified version of DVDLobby
- External DVD drive (hooked to the HTPC remote located in the storage area) for rental DVD playback
- Monitor for the HTPC/Mainlobby machine.

The other addition is my new EO Tabletkiosk i7209 for which I've created a "Now Playing" Mainlobby scene for visual control of the current feature. What's cool is I've been able to also make the hard buttons on it work to control Play, Pause, next, prev, volume, etc. So, it functions as a cool touch panel remote and a "no look" hard button remote at the same time.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/tabletkiosk.jpg

And, here's a closeup of my modified Mainlobby scenes:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/mydvdlobbyprogear.jpg

I've modified the standard DVDLobby interface to be thumbnails only and have fewer buttons and options (make it real easy for the wife/babysitters). I've also added functionality to set the proper aspect ratio in TheaterTek as well as power on/off my entire system (and it even gives visual cues by lighting up the power button green when everything is on).

Since I eliminated all the DVDLobby views other than thumbnails I also modified what happens when someone selects a movie. In standard DVDLobby, touching the large cover art will play that movie. I've changed it to instead bring up a larger overview scene. I think this is more intuitive and cleans up the interface a bit (IMO).

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/myoverview.jpg

Playing the movie is now accomplished by hitting the "Play" button on either the main scene or overview scene. When you do that, it automatically sends that information to the smaller TabletKiosk and it brings up a Now Playing scene for control of the movie.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/nowplaying.jpg

From there you can do all the normal stuff with either touch screen icons or hard buttons. This includes powering on/off the system again (and again with visual feedback) and volume control - including some pre-sets for really rockin out and for immediately going to a "quiet" mode when the wife comes pounding on the door because the IB is shaking the house ;).

Finally, you can also get to the DVD catalog on the TabletKiosk. I had to modify the interface once again to make it small enough to operate on the 7" screen (the Progear is a 10" screen).

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/dvdltablet.jpg

That's about it for now. The only thing I cannot control with all this new stuff is my Grafik Eye. I could do it but I just don't know if its worth messing with Girder just for that functionality.

Yesterday's progress:

I used foam tape around the mouth of the manifold to create a gasket where it meets the framing.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB015175sm.jpg

And here is the hardware I used to mount the drivers. 3/4" conduit clamps, 10/24 machine screws, bonded washers and t-nuts. Nothing original because these seem to work very well.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB025176sm.jpg

And, just before the moment of truth - drivers installed and wired up.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/PB025178sm.jpg


Now, at that point, it got interesting. I have no doubt that I could completely tear my house down with this thing. That's kind of the problem right now. When I first started to try and dial it in yesterday my wife was giving me a look that only can be defined as the "that damned thing is resonating throughout the entire house and if you think you're ever going to turn that on while I'm here you've got another thing coming" look...

My mom was over last night as well and it literally drove her outside while I was trying to test out the depth charge scene in U-571. She was on a different floor. My theater was constructed to be isolated from the rest of the house (room in a room) and, I'm finding that worked very well. Of course, with the IB setup, that is shot.

I've got to see if I can dial it in so it doesn't affect the rest of the house as much but I may have to keep the SVS for normal use and only crank the "monster" when its guys "big loud" movie night.

I don't think I've even made these drivers try and break a sweat yet either.

My mom is over again this morning so I can't do much with it right now. Hopefully, I can work on EQ later today.


That thing looks like it could give you a full body massage....

so...get back to us on that . :D

i just read through all 16 pages of this thread, and it was informational, and entertaining at the same time...

simply amazing build up sir...

and i don't think there are very many women in the world that appreciate those low frequencies... LOL...

That thing looks like it could give you a full body massage....

so...get back to us on that . :D

It gives the house a full body massage :). Actually, I'm thinking about trying to re-build the thing on my stage behind/under the screen. That project is gonna have to wait a bit, though.

Im - Thanks for the kudos.

EBR,
I did get my 2 15s hooked up to my EP2500 over the weekend. Now I have more than enough power. It is amazing what a little cone area can do. I have them adjusted by the MCACC in my 84 so that both the Infrasub 18 and the 15s sound pretty darn good. It really is incredible when it grabs your chest and never lets go in certain "scenes". All of what I have is behind the front screen in my room. I am glad I did this. Putting them outside the room would only translate for another reason for my wife to strangle me. (Trust me, she does not need another reason)

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/mydvdlobbyprogear.jpg
Most impressive ebr!! I love a clean interface and hope to have something like that setup someday soon.

I noticed that you only have (2) aspect ratios for your movies -- 16:9 and 2:35. I find that I need (5) custom aspect ratios for my viewing:

1) 2:35 Letterbox
2) 2:35 Anamorphic
3) 2:40 (a little more vertical squeeze required over #1 and #2)
4) 1:85 (stretched a little more horizontally)
5) 1:78

Do you enjoy looking at people short and fat or so you have something going on behind the scenes that is not shown on your screens? ;) :D

So far, I've been able to get by with just these two ARs. However, I haven't viewed that many movies yet.

I've gotten so used to stretched people by watching standard TV on my 16x9 plasma that I think I might just leave the lens in place and watch 1.85 movies stretched to 2.35.

So far, I've been able to get by with just these two ARs. However, I haven't viewed that many movies yet.

I've gotten so used to stretched people by watching standard TV on my 16x9 plasma that I think I might just leave the lens in place and watch 1.85 movies stretched to 2.35.Ruben does, using a scaler. I just have two aspect ratios 1.85 and 2.35 so I cheat a little but cant deal with stretched unless its TV and the news or something. Being a fan of College Football and Pros in Jan. I cant handled stretched HD sports or something like Bikini Destinations ultra wide edition.

Ruben says he likes 1.78 shown in 2.35, I know I cant deal with it, I tried but I leave the anamorphic in place

Yeah, over the long haul, I may end up in your camp too, Mark. Not sure if I can take 1.85 content stretched to 2.35. I've watched one or two movies like that but it might bother me after a while. I know I definitely couldn't watch a football game that way - but I don't watch much football in there.

I guess I need to define a "squeezed" AR for 1.85 content with the lens in place and try that out. Or, just get off my dufas and put that hinge in my panamorph mount so I can flip it up.

I finally put the hinge in my lens mount so I can view 1.85 stuff normally now.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/panamorph.jpg

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/Newest/lensflipped.jpg

Pretty simple. Just a couple of strap hinges.

Well, after a couple months of not really being able to use my IB setup and not really being completely satisfied with the sound I get from either the IB or the SVS by themselves, I decided to take Thomas' (of "The Cult") suggestion and build a box inside the room.

Here it is as I'm framing it out. Just the lower portion as I need to put the main speakers in the upper part and I don't want to completely eliminate the bass trapping I'm using that space for.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/wooferboxconst.jpg

Box complete. I put some of that fiberglass I was using for the "cage" inside.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/wooferboxface.jpg

And, finally, with the drivers installed and ready to go.

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/wooferswired.jpg

This is where it gets interesting. I have only done a quick setup so far and a little EQ but I'm already convinced that there was something in my IB design that was compromised. This thing rocks. It gives me the punch of the SVS and the gutteral, house shaking lows of the IB and all with what seems to be a smoother and more natural sound. Whats more, I can tear down my room even more with this setup than I could my IB - without pushing the amp any more than I was before.

Maybe the manifold was too small or maybe those studs in the opening were limiting me or, maybe, the hybrid setup of opposing and non-opposing drivers was fighting each other. I don't know. What I do know is the experience inside the room now is downright terrifying on scenes like the door banging in "The Haunting". And, while it does still affect some of the rest of the house it is pretty much limited to the dining room because it is directly above the Theater. The rest of the house does not shake and rattle nearly as badly even though, in the room, it is an even more severe experience than it was with either the SVS, the IB or both.

My wife came home as I was putting little felt feet on all of her pottery that is on shelves and stuff in the dining room and saw the stupid grin on my face. It still won't be her favorite thing, but the leakage is not nearly as bad as it was. This is especially true with music, which doesn't really cause any rattling anywhere else in the house but is knock you in the chest awesome in the room.

Anyone in the market for a slightly used SVS PB12+/2? It really is an awesome sub. It took 4 18"ers in a 75cuft enclosure to outperform it. :D

Allways awsome to hear sombody try something new and love it so much. Congratulations on your chest-crushing-house(and marriage?)-saving new sub. I also think it is cool how insane those 4 18" drivers look in the front of your room. I am sure you are going to cover them (as would I also) but they sure look intimidating that way right now.

Did you do much in the way of calculations for the new enclosure or did you just make it as big as you could in that space? I have wondered if just going for as large of a sealed enclosure as you can get would be worth a shot.

Good work, now you can enjoy it without the constant concern that sombody is being disturbed elsewhere in the house.

Later,
Brian

Brian - I just went as large as I could with the space I had. I figured if "infinite" was supposedly the best case, then tending towards that would be better too. In other words, I assumed that it couldn't be "too big". Maybe that was erroneous. If it was, I don't want to know about it because I'm quite happy.

And, yes, they are covered. The front of the room looks just like it did before:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/compangle1sm.jpg

No one would ever suspect what lurks under the screen there...until I turn it on :D.

Those drivers are impressive in a line like that. To give you some scale, that is a Rocket "bigfoot" center speaker which is huge. It weighs 42 pounds and it is dwarfed by those 18" bad boys. I toyed with the idea of painting the face of the box black or covering it with fabric so it would look even cooler when I took the cover off, but when it got that far I just wanted to hook those babies up and see what happened.

great minds think alike. after reading your thread about the ib experience i decided to build a "nearly ib" sub for my new theater. i even commented to someone that i was not doing ib because i was seeing that yours was awesome but hard to use when your wife was home :) i tuned my design using unibox. we will soon see how it works.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=797766

or in my theater build thread here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=761723

greg

Ooh, cool. I'll try and keep up with your build and see how it goes (please ping me over here if you think about it once you have results). I thought about designing a port into mine but figured I could always add it if I thought I needed it. As it stands, I don't see what additional a port could add. I have so much displacement capability with my drivers (~27 liters!) I think that makes up for the lack of a port.

Dammit ebr -- what are you doing :eek: You can't change your mind now ;) :D I was thinking about something like that in the beginning -- kind of like a big coffin sub.

DIY is a terrible thing since you can change your mind and it does not involve a ton of cash. If the kids ever sit on the floor in front of the screen -- do they get a blast?

You know -- one other consideration on the improved sound is the location of the drivers. Maybe the front of the room is more optimal?? Who knows -- I'm just happy you can re-coop some of your expense with the sale of your SVS sub!

Yeah, location may be one reason. I also think having the drivers spread out over the entire front of the room probably helps too. I guess the other thing I didn't take into account was that the smaller enclosure I guess is actually more efficient in moving air than the IB configuration - thus increasing the spl capability of the system. I probably could have just used two drivers and been quite happy.

I just took a reading and got 119db at my listening location (2nd row) during the door banging in The Haunting :eek: . This is with the receiver at -10. I was afraid to go any higher. That level just about makes one crap their pants in the room and I was afraid the chandelier in the dining room upstairs was going to come down. I think I'll go back off on that amp a notch right now...

ebr

Great looking theater. What color is the cloth that you used for the screen wall?

Thanks, Mike. It is GOM FR-701 Black.

One more question - does the wood or whatever material the GOM is stapled to need to be painted black so as not to show through the cloth, or is the GOM material opaque enough that this is unecessary?

I just took a reading and got 119db at my listening location (2nd row) during the door banging in The Haunting :eek: . This is with the receiver at -10. I was afraid to go any higher. That level just about makes one crap their pants in the room and I was afraid the chandelier in the dining room upstairs was going to come down. I think I'll go back off on that amp a notch right now...
I need to give that a try on my AVR (at -10) as well to see how mine performs (when the wife and kids aren't home!!). Wait -- I can do it tomorrow. I'm taking the day off to do some work on the room (getting ready for the Super Bowl) and the wife is taking the kids to school. I'll have a good few hours to test 'er out. What demo disc are you getting the material? I think D6 (100% DTS) has that Haunting door banging scene and the Flight of the Phoenix Plane Crash. D15 has the WOW Chap5. Should prove to be pretty interesting.

BTW - how hot do you have your EP2500? I think I have mine about 2 o'clock. I also assume your AVR has the Sub level at 0dB?

Mike - I find that on something like the screen wall, where the black GOM will be directly on the framing members, you do need to paint them black to avoid them showing through.

Steve - The sub level as set by MCACC during basic calibration is at -9.0 and my EP2500 is set at about 16 (9 o'clock). IOW - its idleing. Kind of scary, huh?

I'm using D2 - the LFE disc - and my own material.

Steve - The sub level as set by MCACC during basic calibration is at -9.0 and my EP2500 is set at about 16 (9 o'clock). IOW - its idleing. Kind of scary, huh?

Do you have it bridged? That's some power with lower amps! I think I need to get my other (2) 15's hooked up to get more air-movement :rolleyes: Those 18's rock!

EDIT -- I'll bet since your room is WAY more sealed than mine -- it is easier to pressurize. That is probably why I need more amps to get the same result??

ebr,

I really like what you have done with your setup and 18" woofers. I was wondering if the enclosure for those subs is totally sealed? Looking at your middle pic from post 487 it seems I see a little bit of white on the right (from your back wall perhaps). Did you simply frame the enclosure and build a top, face and then stuff the cavity with the fiberglass?

Again, the end result looks great, enjoy!