"What can you do about it? If the display provides a selection of different gamma's, try them until you find the one that is closest to what you prefer. If it provides a means to set custom gammas then use that adjustment. Other than that, you are stuck. Misadjusting Brightness and Contrast will not fix the problem, but it will create other problems that are worse.

Hope this helps."

It does have many gamma presets and controls. TV choice and PC choice are closer to 2.2. There many gamma steps to choose and there is also custom gamma make your own choices.

Yep, that matches my configuration. At least I know it's not just me! It seems to be coming from "within the lens", rather than from somewhere else on the body of the projector. If I stand at the wall where the halo is, I can see light coming from the lens.

Mike

Re your (and others) halo situation. I wonder, when the anamorphic lens for a 2.35:1 set up is used , if that would help correct this issue? Seems to me it could.

As for light spill from the projector itself (on to the ceiling or wherever) reported elsewhere, I am going to utlize a hush box. That will not only solve that issue but also any problems with fan/iris noise. Is that any worse, seing a box up on the ceiling, than seeing a PJ hanging from the ceiling with a wire loom?

I'd be interested to hear anyone's experience using the HD81 with a hushbox and anamorphic lens as that is what I am hoping to do shortly.

I'd be interested to hear anyone's experience using the HD81 with a hushbox and anamorphic lens as that is what I am hoping to do shortly.

When do you think you will be up and running? Mine looks like mid December.

Probably about the same time. I'm waiting on the new Panamorph UH380 that is coming in November and completing my screen wall to get the final setup. I am holding off on purchasing my HD81 until I can get a good perspective on whether the issues reported here are real and significant to me. The HD81 vs pearl thread has been really good for that. Reminds you that, although there may be bugs and issues these are still excellent projectors - particularly if this is your first foray into front projection.

glenned,

While I agree with several of your points, I must disagree strongly about your interpretation of what parameters of the adjustable picture Brightness and Contrast control. Brightness does affect the Black or darker levels while contrast affects the white or bright levels. By adjusting the brightness I can and do raise the darrker portions of the screen to a level where I can distinguish details that are hidden if the brightness adjustment is set too low. In my case I like to use men's suit lapels to set brightness. Typically, I will choose a scene with a dark jacket in it. When I am able to distinguish the lapel apart from the jacket, I consider that my brightness is set properly.

Please do not tell me that I should use discs with standardized levels. I have those and use them;however often an individual disc may not meet these criteria.

In the case of the Optoma HD81, I find that I often must boost the brightness. I have set the gamma as high as five without success. Brightness always fixes ther aforementioned problem.

The thing with a test disk is they have the correct values for black and white encoded in them (D16 for black and D235 for white) so that you can adjust your settings correctly for video levels. Once this is done provided the source is mastered correctly you will see things as intended.

The time when you will not see shadow detail for instance is when there will be brighter content in the same frame. The bright part will cause your eye to adapt and the shadow detail will become invisible, just like at the theater or in real life. Raising the black level to make it visible raises the black level and reduces contrast and spoiles the directors intended view of the scene. It's an unnatural thing to do IMHO.

Gary.

Art:

Have you played with the "USER" setting in the "IMAGE MODE"? You can increase gamma as to specific luminance levels such that you can enhance shadow detail while maintaining an accurate black level and not impacting gamma across the rest of the luminance levels.

Specifically, set brightness using a test disc and then increase the LEVEL 1 value in the IMAGE MODE - USER to bring the image out of black more quickly for IRE values 1 to 10 or LEVEL 2 for IRE values 11 to 20.

You made need to go back and forth between brightness and IMAGE MODE - USER to get this right.

This should accomplish what you are looking for - solid blacks but better shadow detail.

Probably about the same time. I'm waiting on the new Panamorph UH380 that is coming in November and completing my screen wall to get the final setup. I am holding off on purchasing my HD81 until I can get a good perspective on whether the issues reported here are real and significant to me. The HD81 vs pearl thread has been really good for that. Reminds you that, although there may be bugs and issues these are still excellent projectors - particularly if this is your first foray into front projection.

I agree. It is very easy to be persuaded one way or the other, but as I was told the first time I entered this forum (I was thinking about the Ruby) their is no such thing as the perfect projector, they all have their quirks! I'm sticking with my order for the HD81 and I am basing that purely on my own evaluation of the demo at Cedia and having talked for a lenghty period with two of the Optoma engineers their. Obviously we know all about the lack of adjustability (and we know that will be corrected on the HD81 VII or HD82, whatever) but if it works for your set up I cannot see how the con's could outweigh the pro's. With the size of screen we are going for I think we would have to spend a lot more $'s to get the brightness we desire.

BTW .. why did you decide to go with the Panamorph and not the Optoma/Schneider lens? What is the price of the Panamorph?

Anyway, keep me posted as to which way you go. Best of luck.

MCB Racer

glenned,

While I agree with several of your points, I must disagree strongly about your interpretation of what parameters of the adjustable picture Brightness and Contrast control. Brightness does affect the Black or darker levels while contrast affects the white or bright levels. By adjusting the brightness I can and do raise the darrker portions of the screen to a level where I can distinguish details that are hidden if the brightness adjustment is set too low. In my case I like to use men's suit lapels to set brightness. Typically, I will choose a scene with a dark jacket in it. When I am able to distinguish the lapel apart from the jacket, I consider that my brightness is set properly.

Please do not tell me that I should use discs with standardized levels. I have those and use them;however often an individual disc may not meet these criteria.

In the case of the Optoma HD81, I find that I often must boost the brightness. I have set the gamma as high as five without success. Brightness always fixes ther aforementioned problem.


I am confused as to why you "disagree strongly" with Glenn's comments regarding
" what parameters of the adjustable picture Brightness and Contrast control".

You say "Brightness does affect the Black or darker levels while contrast affects the white or bright levels. By adjusting the brightness I can and do raise the darrker portions of the screen to a level where I can distinguish details that are hidden if the brightness adjustment is set too low. "

Reviewing Glenn's post, I don't see where he ever said otherwise. :confused:

My son came home from college with his super gaming computer. He put on Half-Life in native 1080p. I'm not a gamer, but the visual impact of this game was phenomenal! Many times the image looked more like a window on the real world than a video game.

We also watched Apple 1080p movie trailers downloaded from the web. Really great eye-candy.

One more reason to get the HD81 - it makes for the ultimate computer monitor.

Glad you're happy Kevin. Incredible detail in the blacks, it's the first thing that stood out for us. Well plus the resolution outlines in all the characters in movies.

MCB Racer - there is (or was) a pre buy for the new Panamorph lens in the 2.35 constant height forum. I didn't realise there was an Optoma option at the time so I jumped on the Panamorph power buy at $1500. I have to say it was a very unscientific purchase.........but I'm sure I will love it :)

I think I will probably stay with the HD81 although what seems slightly surprising to me is that in the shoot out between the HD81 and pearl the majority of the differences seemed to relate to LCoS vs DLP differences. I'm not sure how much value the external scaler is adding to the mix over internal scalers. Is it just convenient connections?

"I'm not sure how much value the external scaler is adding to the mix over internal scalers"

Top notch 1080p deinterlacing is hard to come by, that's one. Switching, massive color controls, enhancement control, gamma control. What's not to like about the $3000 scaler?

Exactly. When comparing the HD81 to other projectors, the value of the Gennum scaler must be factored into the equation. It's value in terms of both convenience (connectivity) and PQ benefits cannot be overlooked.

Off the imediate topic but was wondering if anyone had an opinion on a fixed ceiling mount for the HD81? Can I just get a Universal mount from someone like Chief or do I need to get something specific made for the HD81? Thanks.

Off the imediate topic but was wondering if anyone had an opinion on a fixed ceiling mount for the HD81? Can I just get a Universal mount from someone like Chief or do I need to get something specific made for the HD81? Thanks.
I'm using the universal Chief mount and it works great.

-Dave

Kevin,

In terms of responsive comments, your reply regarding how to bring out the details in the shadowy area has to rank among the most useful I have received. I will definitely try that. I wish I had some type of explanation of what the user 1,2 &3 modes accomplish. I thought they were places to store various setup configurations but you sem to be saying that they are preconfigured with settings that affect IRE levels differently. I have not seen this in the manual. If it is there and I missed it, would you give me a page number. I really do appreciate your help. The VXD-3000 is not for the beginner. I now have 46 hours on the HD81 and the more I play with it, the more satisfied I become. I hope to understand dwhatyou described because I find myself adjusting the image throughout the program. This is very annoying to my wife.

Weatherby,

Thhe Chief RPAU mount is what Projectopoint recommended but when I spoke to a tech at Chief, he suggested that the projector specific adaptor would be far easier to implement than the RPAU universal mount that attaches to the projector. Because the HD81 has only 3 holes and requires 4 inches of ceiling clearance, configuring the RPAU can be a bit tricky. In an earlier comment I mentioned that the two installers I hired became so frustrated that they deferred to my suggestion for configuring the RPAU. As a result of the 3 hole issue, the projector appears to be several inches off to one side. I have ordered and am waiting for the lateral adjustment kit to arrive. Hopefully, this will permit me to move the projector into the correct position. Interestingly, my CRT projector had the same problem. Perhaps the wall the screen is mounted on may not be parallel to my rear wall where the projector is. Anyway, I recommend you purchase the Optoma mount or as the Chief tech suggested, buy the correct adaptor for the HD81 rather than the universal mount.

Can I just get a Universal mount from someone like Chief or do I need to get something specific made for the HD81?
Art, look at page 39 of the manual. It is the "USER" option in the "IMAGE MODE."

The projector has an odd 3-hole mount configuration, but the projector is so light that I did not have any trouble using a "universal" spider mount, though it did take some experimenting and swapping around of the legs to get the best fit.

Kevin,

In terms of responsive comments, your reply regarding how to bring out the details in the shadowy area has to rank among the most useful I have received.
Neil,

Apparently, you don't disagree with my post as much as it seems. Kevin's post tells you how to implement my advice concerning setting Contrast, Brightness, and Gamma. My post explained the purpose of these adjustments and what they do in general terms. Kevin's post is telling you specifically how to implement them on the HD81.

Kevin and I are saying the same thing. Use the Brightness control to set the HD81 so that when it receives the video command "Black" it displays the darkest Black it can, but don't lower it any further or you will crush shadow detail. Hence the need for test patterns where you know that the PJ is receiving signals for Black and for the signal levels just above Black. That's how you verify that the signal levels just above Black are not being crushed.

In an actual video image, such as the image of a dark suit, you don't know what levels the suit is coded at. It may very well not be coded to be Black. In fact typically it is not. Also, the colorist who mastered the video may not have intended that the lapel and buttons be very visible. They may be coded to be the same level or a level just above the level of the suit. In that case you are raising the Brightness control in an attempt to correct something that is already correct.

The two disadvantages of using the Brightness control in that manner are that Black becomes elevated and looks even foggier than it has to, and that the CR of the display is reduced creating a less contrasty flat image. You actually are setting your display so that is has LESS dynamic range to work with in delineating shadow detail, and every other part of the video signal range, too.

Your goal should be to set the video signal for Black at Black using the Brightness control. Then use the Gamma controls to raise the brightness level of only the levels above Black so that they stand out more against the Black background. You don't want to elevate Black, too. If you elevate both Black and the details just above Black, the details will stand out LESS than if you leave Black where it should be. The larger the difference in brightness between the different signal levels, the more visible the different levels become. This is the key to the delineation of shadow detail.

The display has a certain dynamic range (measured by on/off CR) to paint all the different video levels in the signal standard. When you allocate more of that dynamic range to the shadow details by increasing the step-up in brightness level from one signal level to the next, you have less left over to work with in the brighter signal ranges. So there is always a compromise. Using the gamma controls to elevate shadow details will compress the mid and bright levels together. Images with those signal levels will be less contrasty for it. You will want to consider the effects of gamma changes on the whole gamut of brightness levels and find the balance that pleases you most.

I have not seen an HD81, yet. I don't know how effective its gamma controls will prove to be, and I cannot tell you how to set them. You will have to tell us if they will get the job done for you. The points I raised are true of all displays and are not particular to the HD81. Most digital displays have limited ability to alter gamma. In most cases if you don't like what the designers have given you, you are stuck. It sounds like the HD81 may be an exception. Please let us know.

I, too, put a great deal of emphasis on a digital displays ability to delineate shadow detail. Greyish Blacks and poor shadow detail have been the achilles heals of digital displays, IMO. I share your concerns with this type of shortcoming. After I calibrate a display, I watch actual video on it that I have memorized to assess it. One of the main PQ parameters I look at is shadow detail. I am sorry that my first post wasn't clearer.

Glenn

Kevin/ Tom -Guitarman/ Dave

I received an e-mail from a on-line seller saying the Optoma is installing new firmware to correct a problem with the HD81. Does anyone know anything about this?

Tony

Kevin/ Tom -Guitarman/ Dave

I received an e-mail from a on-line seller saying the Optoma is installing new firmware to correct a problem with the HD81. Does anyone know anything about this?

Tony

New firmware will be available shortly. I have C04. Some folks have C05. I imagine that C06 is being worked on.

Joe

I am curious how many folks have the halo or crescent of light about 3 feet to the right of the image (if the projector is right side up on a table)?

Joe

New firmware will be available shortly. I imaging that C06 is being worked on.

Joe

I was told by Wing at Optoma that CO6 was in beta testing and one of the features
would be automatic sensing of aspect ratio so that 2:35:1 would go into anamorphic
mode automatically. Don't know what other features/fixes will be available.

Jeff Regan

I am curious how many folks have the halo or crescent of light about 3 feet to the right of the image (if the projector is right side up on a table)?
I've seen this when I zoom the picture all the way in, but when it is adjusted to fit my screen, it is not visible. There are ways to solve this. One is to use light absorbing blocks placed as close to the projector lens as possible to prevent the light spill from reaching the wall. The other is to place light absorbing material where the light hits the wall.

Does anyone have a hush box design that they could share with the rest of us?
clearances needed ect.

Tony

WOW!!!!

I did a basic calibration last night using an Avia dvd. I had very little idea what I was doing but the explanations on the dvd were nice.

But after I was finished and went back to watching content it was even more astounding than before. I had 5 people over and we were switching between HDfootball and HDcsi-miami. I gotta tell you, whoever is in charge of the imagery on csi-miami is amazing. The combinations of colors throughout that show are mind blowing. (And I've been drug free for 30 years :D )

Anyway, I can only imagine what it is going to look like fully calibrated once I have the projector in its final location.

Kevin and Glenned - Thanks for all of the calibration talk. It made me want to try it. AMAZING!!

Joe

I've seen this when I zoom the picture all the way in, but when it is adjusted to fit my screen, it is not visible. There are ways to solve this. One is to use light absorbing blocks placed as close to the projector lens as possible to prevent the light spill from reaching the wall. The other is to place light absorbing material where the light hits the wall.

Thanks. I am zoomed in but won't be in the final location. No worries I guess.

Joe

Glenned,

While this is my first digital projector, I have over 30 years experience adjusting CRT projectors TV's. This HD81 is VERY punchy compared to anything I've experienced before. Unfortunately, gamma settings above 0 are almost useless and have very little effect on PQ. Levels below 0 tend to completely crush blacks. Perhaps my image size, 96" wide on a 1.3 gain screen, is too large because I find that using the DVI outputs from my (2) LG LST-3410A's with the projector set to low bulb and the DVI-PC setting, the pictures are just too dark when viewing shows like CSI. My IRIS is generally set to 8. What does help, a lot, is setting the bulb to the brite mode. The detail in the black areas really stand out beautifully and the colors are even more vibrant. I will continue to experiment. BTW, I used both the AVIA and Video Essentials disks to set the various easily adjustable controls. I have not adjusted the gray scale with my Progressive Labs Colorimeter. I am still waiting for the lateral adjustment kit for the RPAU mount to arrive.

I do have one comment though, setting one of these projectors up is like falling off a log (very easy) compared to the 2-3 days I used to spend on a CRT projector before I was happy with its performance. If anyone here remembers what it took to get a Kloss Novabeam operational, you will understand.

Glenned,

While this is my first digital projector, I have over 30 years experience adjusting CRT projectors TV's. This HD81 is VERY punchy compared to anything I've experienced before. Unfortunately, gamma settings above 0 are almost useless and have very little effect on PQ. Levels below 0 tend to completely crush blacks. Perhaps my image size, 96" wide on a 1.3 gain screen, is too large because I find that using the DVI outputs from my (2) LG LST-3410A's with the projector set to low bulb and the DVI-PC setting, the pictures are just too dark when viewing shows like CSI. My IRIS is generally set to 8. What does help, a lot, is setting the bulb to the brite mode. The detail in the black areas really stand out beautifully and the colors are even more vibrant. I will continue to experiment. BTW, I used both the AVIA and Video Essentials disks to set the various easily adjustable controls. I have not adjusted the gray scale with my Progressive Labs Colorimeter. I am still waiting for the lateral adjustment kit for the RPAU mount to arrive.

I do have one comment though, setting one of these projectors up is like falling off a log (very easy) compared to the 2-3 days I used to spend on a CRT projector before I was happy with its performance. If anyone here remembers what it took to get a Kloss Novabeam operational, you will understand.

Hi Art,

I am definately a newbie to all of this but learning fast. My screen is 96" wide and is also 1.3 gain. So my situation is similar to yours.

When I did my calibration last night I made sure absolutely all image modification settings were off. Including the iris. I am curious why you would put the iris at mid point for the calibration. Why wouldn't you turn it off so it is fully open? Doesn't having the iris half-way closed and turning the bulb to bright contradict each other?

Like I said, I am learning and definately not educated in this area. :)

Joe

As you mentioned, 8 is the factory setting/midpoint for the iris. I put it there because OPTOMA's instructions say the picture is better at lower settings of the iris. Frankly, other than the picture getting brighter, I can not see any difference in PQ whether the iris is at 1 or 16 except that above 12, the picture is so dark that it is uunwatchable in my room. BTW, I do have a white ceiling so I get a lot of light reflecting off that ceiling.

Regarding setup and adjusment... I adjusted everything with the iris at 8 and the bulb on the low setting. That is how I intend to use it most of the time. I use the higher input signal setting because the picture coming from my DVD player looks better if I start from that point. Yes, all my user settings are at 0 to begin with. I have just done a quick run through thus far. When I get the geometry issue under control and finalize the projector's position, then I will set the gray scale and proceed to setting the user controls. BTW, my projector seems to be drifting towards blue green. Perhaps that is what happens as the bulbs age. Not having any prior experience with these devices that are lit with high power lamps, like you, I am learning.

One last comment, and I am amazed to see myself writing this, our eyes and our brains are and should be the final arbitrer of fwhat looks good up on that screen. After seting up projectors in people's homes using Video Essentials, the Progressive Labs Colorimeter, Red, Gree and Blue filters, signal generators and sound level meters, I often find the owner of the device will often make comments like, the "color is too strong", "the colors look washed out", "my eyes get tired because it is too bright" or "I can't see it, it's too dark". On the audio side I regularly hear that there is insufficient bass, not enough is coming out of the rear speakers or the audio isue I hear most often, "I can't hear the words". This after often 2 or 3 days of deliberate exacting set up using the aforementioned disks and equipment to provide reference levels. Audio issues I fix with equalization or tone controls. For video issues I hand them the remote and explain how to adjust the picture. I also explain that I will not be adjusting it again.

I was told by Wing at Optoma that CO6 was in beta testing and one of the features
would be automatic sensing of aspect ratio so that 2:35:1 would go into anamorphic
mode automatically. Don't know what other features/fixes will be available.

Jeff Regan

Hi All,
I'm very interested in this projector & was suprised to see, if I'm understanding Jeff's quote, that the HD81 would streach the vertical so an anamorphic lens could project the image as true 2.35 like the newer Runco's. Is that true? About what does this projector cost? What kind of lens is needed & cost?

As you mentioned, 8 is the factory setting/midpoint for the iris. I put it there because OPTOMA's instructions say the picture is better at lower settings of the iris. Frankly, other than the picture getting brighter, I can not see any difference in PQ whether the iris is at 1 or 16 except that above 12, the picture is so dark that it is uunwatchable in my room. BTW, I do have a white ceiling so I get a lot of light reflecting off that ceiling.

Regarding setup and adjusment... I adjusted everything with the iris at 8 and the bulb on the low setting. That is how I intend to use it most of the time. I use the higher input signal setting because the picture coming from my DVD player looks better if I start from that point. Yes, all my user settings are at 0 to begin with. I have just done a quick run through thus far. When I get the geometry issue under control and finalize the projector's position, then I will set the gray scale and proceed to setting the user controls. BTW, my projector seems to be drifting towards blue green. Perhaps that is what happens as the bulbs age. Not having any prior experience with these devices that are lit with high power lamps, like you, I am learning.

One last comment, and I am amazed to see myself writing this, our eyes and our brains are and should be the final arbitrer of fwhat looks good up on that screen. After seting up projectors in people's homes using Video Essentials, the Progressive Labs Colorimeter, Red, Gree and Blue filters, signal generators and sound level meters, I often find the owner of the device will often make comments like, the "color is too strong", "the colors look washed out", "my eyes get tired because it is too bright" or "I can't see it, it's too dark". On the audio side I regularly hear that there is insufficient bass, not enough is coming out of the rear speakers or the audio isue I hear most often, "I can't hear the words". This after often 2 or 3 days of deliberate exacting set up using the aforementioned disks and equipment to provide reference levels. Audio issues I fix with equalization or tone controls. For video issues I hand them the remote and explain how to adjust the picture. I also explain that I will not be adjusting it again.

So far I am not a fan of the iris. I can really hear mine when it changes. (I am on C04, maybe newer versions will help.) If you have time, try the rough calibration again with it off. I myself did not try a calibration with it on but I really am enjoying the post-calibration image without the iris. (I too have a white ceiling and the projector is in a temporary position.)

I think I have about 65 hours on my bulb and when I did the color calibration it was still spot on on all 3 colors. I was actually a little surprised having viewed the graphs that Kevin provided in an earlier post. But I was using my eyes and not a testing instrument :)

I am in total agreement in the message you are portraying in your last paragraph. One can do all of the measurements and settings you wish but it all is still interpreted by a human being using completely subjectively-based analog tools (eyes and ears). And the dang things keep changing too.

Joe

Glenned,
I do have one comment though, setting one of these projectors up is like falling off a log (very easy) compared to the 2-3 days I used to spend on a CRT projector before I was happy with its performance. If anyone here remembers what it took to get a Kloss Novabeam operational, you will understand.

I did have a Kloss Novabeam and in fact had a Advent VideoBeam (both created by Henry Kloss) before that and have gone thru NEC and Sony CRT projectors since then. I plan on moving to a 1080p DLP next year after I get into our new house and it is good to hear that the setup is much easier than for CRT projectors (which I have spent a lot of time with over the past 30+ years).

Ron Jones

jmorris,

Do me a favor please, and I am not trying to be haughty, nasty or negative. Please refer to the setting of controls as adjustments rather than calibration. I worked for NBS, the National Bureau of Standards, for 5 years early in my career. There they drilled into me that "Calibration" is something that can onle be done using traceable reference standards. Here that is certainly not the case. Because of the way that issue was drilled into me in 1967 at the National Bureau of Standards, I now am extremely sensitive to the proper use of the terminology. Unfortunately. I'll bet if we check the latest dictionaries, using calibrate the way I see it used in these forums probably is an acceptable use of the term. Anyway, for me if for no other reason. No big deal just a favor. I hate the fact that the english language is being destroyed and perverted to so great an extent and at such a rapid rate that soon folks over 50 may not be able to order a hamburger in certain parts of our city's and even worse so called audio and video "philes" may not be able to tell what is truly a reference standard traceable to a standards setting organization like NTIS vs. a CD or DVD with some tones and pictures that the author decides to pass of as a standard level. I have encountered differences in excess of 5 dB when comparing Dolby Digital reference levels on different discs. Color levels are so different from medium to medium that I stopped using them for VHS and SVHS tapes completely.

Thanks for being patient with me. I hope you understand what I am attempting to say.

Ron,

Good to hear there are other old farts out there like me who have some perspective. Up until a year ago, I still used a 1947 Dumont 5 Mhz Dual Trace scope. It died finally so I traded up to a gorgeous Tektronix portable that I bought on EBAY for almost nothing compared to what I was paying for tubes to replace burned out ones on the Dumont.

BTW, this HD81 provides a picturethat is much sharper and detailed than anything I have ever seen from a CRT. That includes what I remember coming from a G90.

So I am thinking of upgrading my Sharp 12K to the HD81. I currently am using the Anthem Statement D2.

If I go with the HD81 am I correct in assuming I would still need to run the hdmi and rs232 cables from the HD81 video processor to the projector and then hookup the output of the D2 to the "From AV Receiver" input? Is this equivalent to a pass-thru mode (i.e. no processing from the hd81 vp)?

I am assuming I can't bypass the vp of the HD81 because of the IR issue (no IR receiver on the projector) and because of the on screen display (assuming the vp is generating all the menus)... is this also correct?

Thanks

jmorris,

Do me a favor please, and I am not trying to be haughty, nasty or negative. Please refer to the setting of controls as adjustments rather than calibration. I worked for NBS, the National Bureau of Standards, for 5 years early in my career. There they drilled into me that "Calibration" is something that can onle be done using traceable reference standards. Here that is certainly not the case. Because of the way that issue was drilled into me in 1967 at the National Bureau of Standards, I now am extremely sensitive to the proper use of the terminology. Unfortunately. I'll bet if we check the latest dictionaries, using calibrate the way I see it used in these forums probably is an acceptable use of the term. Anyway, for me if for no other reason. No big deal just a favor. I hate the fact that the english language is being destroyed and perverted to so great an extent and at such a rapid rate that soon folks over 50 may not be able to order a hamburger in certain parts of our city's and even worse so called audio and video "philes" may not be able to tell what is truly a reference standard traceable to a standards setting organization like NTIS vs. a CD or DVD with some tones and pictures that the author decides to pass of as a standard level. I have encountered differences in excess of 5 dB when comparing Dolby Digital reference levels on different discs. Color levels are so different from medium to medium that I stopped using them for VHS and SVHS tapes completely.

Thanks for being patient with me. I hope you understand what I am attempting to say.

No problem. I have already recalibrated, errr readjusted my thought process :)

Joe

SIf I go with the HD81 am I correct in assuming I would still need to run the hdmi and rs232 cables from the HD81 video processor to the projector and then hookup the output of the D2 to the "From AV Receiver" input? Is this equivalent to a pass-thru mode (i.e. no processing from the hd81 vp)?

I am assuming I can't bypass the vp of the HD81 because of the IR issue (no IR receiver on the projector) and because of the on screen display (assuming the vp is generating all the menus)... is this also correct?
My experience is that you cannot by-pass the vp and at all times it must be connected to the projector via the rs232 3-wire null-modem cable (female on both ends).

The "NATIVE" setting does output with 1x1 pixel mapping, at least using the 1080i output of the Accupel, which I view as the equivalent of pass-through.

Note the following quote from a review of a pre-production model of the HD81 in UltimateAV Magazine. Because of this particular issue the writer said that he could not recommend this projector.

Has this issue been addressed in current production models?


First, the Auto iris was unusable. While it did more than double the measured contrast ratio to 4700:1 (28fL peak white, 0.006fL video black), it pumped mercilessly. If the image shifted from a very bright scene to a dark one (and I'm talking about real program material here, not test patterns), nothing would happen for a second or two and then suddenly, WHAP! The black level would instantly be cut in half. The pumping was also obvious on mid-level to bright scene transitions, but the change there was not nearly as dramatic. I could also hear the whirring of the auto iris mechanism as it opened and closed the shutter.

The most recent firmware mitigates this problem, but the shift of the auto iris is still noticable -- both visually and aurally.

If a sophisticated dynamic iris is a required feature for you, then this is not your projector. That being said, the fixed iris works perfectly well and accomplishes the primary goal of increasing contrast ratio. It also provides a lot of flexibility for different sources and for making adjustments as the bulb dims over its life span. Finally, you can turn off the iris altogether, which I've done on some program material. It's just another option and tool to maximize viewing enjoyment -- it is not a mandatory feature.

I would not use the auto iris for critical viewing, but I have found it very useful for HDTV, and especially for HD football, which usually has overblown contrast to start with. I only hear the auto iris shift when a commercial comes on, and then I don't care.

If you are a "set-it-and-forget-it" viewer, I think it also would be useful since it creates the highest contrast ratio for various sources without any user involvement (this type of viewer is much less likely to be bothered by the pumping or "click" of the auto iris).

I think Optoma was "damned if the do and damned if they don't." If they had just provided the fixed iris, as originally planned, I think it would have been viewed as a plus. Instead, they enhanced the iris, albeit imperfectly, by adding the auto feature and people say it is a negative.

There is an interesting discussion on the Pearl vs. HD81 thread about the pros and cons of a dynamic iris. While it is an oversimplification, one of the reasons the Sony uses a dynamic iris is to help it compete with the inherently better black levels of a DLP.

Hi All,
I'm very interested in this projector & was suprised to see, if I'm understanding Jeff's quote, that the HD81 would streach the vertical so an anamorphic lens could project the image as true 2.35 like the newer Runco's. Is that true? About what does this projector cost? What kind of lens is needed & cost?

I believe the anamorphic compression modes are accomplished by the outboard
scaler/processor. The HD81/processor is definitely designed with anamorphic in
mind--the fact that Optoma demoed it that way at CEDIA illustrates this.

There are several anamorphic lens options available. Optoma showed the HD81
with the Schneider at CEDIA. That lens or perhaps another brand will be available
from Optoma in late November, or December time frame, after they have shipped
the next 100 or so HD81's in November. Firmware version for this next shipment
will be CO5, not C06, according to an email received today from Optoma.

I am leaning towards the Panamorph UH380 which is considerably less money than the Schneider or ISCO versions--and most likely not at the same level of
optical quality as the German manufacturers.

HD81 with processor/scaler is $7K list, Schneider is $4K list through Optoma,
Panamorph UH380 is available on a special preorder basis for $1500, regularly
$2500.

Jeff Regan

Can someone list the link to the HD81 vs. Pearl comparison.

Can someone list the link to the HD81 vs. Pearl comparison.

Its right here in this same forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=734568

I am leaning towards the Panamorph UH380 which is considerably less money than the Schneider or ISCO versions--and most likely not at the same level of
optical quality as the German manufacturers.

I doubt those are even close. Get a good return policy. I haven't found a cheaper lens that I think did 720p justice, let alone 1080p. If I try another one, it will be the Schneider or an ISCO.

I found this on page 35 of the HD81s manual...
Detail informations about LBX mode :
1) Some Letter-Box DVD contents are not enhanced for 16x9 TV,
then image will not look right in 16:9 display.
One can use 4:3 mode to view the correct info.
But if the content itself is not 4:3, it will have black bars around
the image in a 16:9 display. For this kind of content, you can use
LBX mode to fi ll the image in the 16x9 display as much as possible.
2) If you use an external 16x9 lens, this LBX mode also allows you
to watch a 2.35:1 content (include Anamorphic DVD and HDTV
fi lm source) that support anamorphic wide is enhanced for 16x9
Display in a wide 2.35:1 image.
In this case, there are no black bars, the full lamp power and
vertical resolution is fully utilized for maximum viewing effects.
Other than these two occasions, one should stay with 16:9 and
4:3 modes for most viewing experiences.
▪ At this time, the exact aspect ratios for Format 1 and Format 2 have
not been defi ned. For maximum fl exibility, Format 1 are pre-set as
16:9 mode and Format 2 is pre-set as Letter Box.
And thanks, Jeff, for your info.
I haven't seen any projector setup for 2.35 yet, but, it seems like the way to go for the true theater experience.
Does anyone have 2.35 setup & running? I'm building a new home & planning a theater in my basement. The room size is 15 x 26 with no windows, so there's plenty of space & no light issues. I thought the Pearl was the one, but, now I'm thinking HD81 if the anamorphic price isn't bad.

This question might have already been asked and possibly answered but I will ask anyways.

I am virgin to this HT rooms and PJ. I purchased a HD81, and I have it installed in my HT room. The first simple question I have is the scaler taking all inputs (HDMI, Component, S-Video) and upconverting it all to 1080? Or do you need to change any settings. When I change sources, it shows 480, 1080, etc. depending on what it is being fed. My installer told me he "spoke" to Optoma, and they said that everything is being upconverted to 1080, and the numbers that are displayed is only to show what type of device is connected to it. This does not sound right to me, and I wanted to get everyone elses opinion.

I also want to ask another question, but let me give you my setup really quickly. I have a 130" Stewart StudioTek130, which is a Permanently Tensioned screen. My HD81 sits about 22' from the screen. It looks ok, but for some reason I was expecting much more from this PJ since it was supposed to be 1080P, and all the buzz. Again, I am so new to this, and this is my first PJ and HT room, so I might be expecting a plasma HD look, but for the size of the screen, it is doing its job.

I appreciate any honest feedback I can get.



Thanks,
Carlo

My installer told me he "spoke" to Optoma, and they said that everything is being upconverted to 1080, and the numbers that are displayed is only to show what type of device is connected to it. This does not sound right to meWell, duh!?

If the inputs were not being internally scaled to 1080, what exactly do you think you are looking at?!

Your projector can only display one resolution - 1080!! It is a physical "limitation" of the DMD chip.

A 1080p projector is so revealing that it can only be as good as your source material. Feed it anything less than a high-bandwidth HDTV signal or a high-definition DVD, and it will painfully reveal the limitations of "lesser" source material.

The HD81 is showing you the resolution of the input device, but the purpose of the video processor is to scale and process all inputs to the native resolution of the projector, which is 1080p.

If I had been you installer, I would not have left until I provided a demo that would have blown you socks off!

Hi All,
I'm very interested in this projector & was suprised to see, if I'm understanding Jeff's quote, that the HD81 would streach the vertical so an anamorphic lens could project the image as true 2.35 like the newer Runco's. Is that true? About what does this projector cost? What kind of lens is needed & cost?

Dear DERG,

Please refer to the following link for HD81 2.35 capability and the comments from those who have seen it at CEDIA:

Optoma HD81 2.35 1080p 170" demo at CEDIA (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723711)

Yes, the HD81 was designed to be very 2.35 capable!

Glenned,

While this is my first digital projector, I have over 30 years experience adjusting CRT projectors TV's. This HD81 is VERY punchy compared to anything I've experienced before. Unfortunately, gamma settings above 0 are almost useless and have very little effect on PQ. Levels below 0 tend to completely crush blacks. Perhaps my image size, 96" wide on a 1.3 gain screen, is too large because I find that using the DVI outputs from my (2) LG LST-3410A's with the projector set to low bulb and the DVI-PC setting, the pictures are just too dark when viewing shows like CSI. My IRIS is generally set to 8. What does help, a lot, is setting the bulb to the brite mode. The detail in the black areas really stand out beautifully and the colors are even more vibrant. I will continue to experiment. BTW, I used both the AVIA and Video Essentials disks to set the various easily adjustable controls. I have not adjusted the gray scale with my Progressive Labs Colorimeter. I am still waiting for the lateral adjustment kit for the RPAU mount to arrive.

I do have one comment though, setting one of these projectors up is like falling off a log (very easy) compared to the 2-3 days I used to spend on a CRT projector before I was happy with its performance. If anyone here remembers what it took to get a Kloss Novabeam operational, you will understand.

Dear MrHiFi,

Under the Image/Advanced menu, there is an Image mode, inside those choices are four degamma modes, and one user gamma.

Maybe you can experiment the user gamma, it has 9 points, from 10 IRE up to 90 IRE, independent adjustment, where you can create your own gamma curve.

The base degamma for user mode is 2.2, then you use the 9-point independent adjustment to get to a gamma curve that you prefer.

Let me know how you make out.

This question might have already been asked and possibly answered but I will ask anyways.

I am virgin to this HT rooms and PJ. I purchased a HD81, and I have it installed in my HT room. The first simple question I have is the scaler taking all inputs (HDMI, Component, S-Video) and upconverting it all to 1080? Or do you need to change any settings. When I change sources, it shows 480, 1080, etc. depending on what it is being fed. My installer told me he "spoke" to Optoma, and they said that everything is being upconverted to 1080, and the numbers that are displayed is only to show what type of device is connected to it. This does not sound right to me, and I wanted to get everyone elses opinion.

I also want to ask another question, but let me give you my setup really quickly. I have a 130" Stewart StudioTek130, which is a Permanently Tensioned screen. My HD81 sits about 22' from the screen. It looks ok, but for some reason I was expecting much more from this PJ since it was supposed to be 1080P, and all the buzz. Again, I am so new to this, and this is my first PJ and HT room, so I might be expecting a plasma HD look, but for the size of the screen, it is doing its job.

I appreciate any honest feedback I can get.



Thanks,
Carlo


Hey Carlo-

Did your installer do any type of calibration at all? Did he at least use a test disc such as Digital Video Essentials?

The HD81, with the Gennum scaler, has a tremendous amount of tweaking capability. It must be calibrated to look its best.

Also, what are you watching on the projector? Regular DVD? Any HD material? If you don't have one yet, I would very highly recommend purchasing a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player. Having a great 1080p projector like you have, it would be a very big mistake in my opinion to not have one of these players to feed the projector and get all you can out of it!

I know you mentioned having a meet at your HT when you get your chairs in, and I'd love the chance to see your HT and the HD81 in action! :)

P.S. Regarding brightness, what setting do you have the iris at?

TzunIlin,

Thank you for the information. I will be trying it tonight. Last night I watched CBS's Jericho, then ABC's Lost and Finally I watched The Nine on ABC. I watxhed the first two with the Auto IRIs. The brite lamp was on more than 50% of the time. The picture was gorgeously vibrant with rich deep saturated colors. Shadowy detail was amazing...FOR THE FIRST 2 SHOWS. In the first 3 minutes of The Nine, the projector lost its vibrancy. Adjusting color had almost no effect. I played with it for over half an hour to no avail. I reset everything back to where it was when I enjoyed the outstanding PQ with 0 on everything and no vividness boost or edge enhancement. I had very little control even when I set color to 20 and color vividness to 3. Hue had almost no effect even at 20. I tried 20 because the picture tended towards a pale blue tinge. Frankly it looked awful. I went back to CBS to see what CSI looked like. Again, Little or no color. In the last 15 minutes of the nine, the color came back. No it was not the station. I was monitoring on a separate computer monitor that runs off a VGA output on my system. That picture stayed the same.

I suspect I am seeing the glitch in the software everyone has been talking about. Frankly, except for a few brief moments on prior days, the PQ of last night's viewing during the first 2 show and the beginning of the third were the most dramatic experience of TV watching I had ever experienced. Even my wife, who usually has nothing but negative comments about my hobby, had to comment onhow the picture looked like a Kodachrome film slide.

TzungIlin, when are these issues gong to be resolved. I have C04. I know that OPTOMA offered to upgrade the firmware if I sent it out there but frankly, I am not eager to part with it in the middle of the main TV and Football season. I believe Optoma should send us replacement VXD3000's with firmware that resolves the IRIS issue and the Color variation issue. The way mine is working, I can not recommend this HD81 to anyone. You need to provide us working glitch free units either through replacement or upgrade via internet posting of the corect firmware.

Carlo,

At 130", you have to be on the ragged edge of acceptable brighness. With my screen width at 96", I find that setting the bulb on brite or auto is the only way to get a decent picture. Also, your VXD3000 may be experiencing the same issues mine is. As I said in the prior paragraphs. Compared to the absolutely drop dead incredibly beautiful picture I had for the majority of last night's viewing, the rest of my experience with this set has been mediocre to poor incomparison. OPTOMA need to do something. Most of us are approaching a $7,000.00 outlay when you add in cabling, ceiling mounts, etc. We deserve better treatment Optoma.

I have found on the HDMI input that if you make an adjustment to the COLOR or CONTRAST settings that the picture becomes desaturated and loses its "pop."

To fix it, I switched to another HDMI input and then back. That resets color saturation to the perfect level.

I verified this with the AviaPro flashing color bar test.

Next time Art, try changing to a different input and then back again. This is a glitch, and it should be fixed with a firmware upgrade.

Thanks Kevin,

I've tried everything you suggested previously concerning the color control. Now i will try this. Seems ashame that they would sell a $7,000.00 machine with such a major glitch. Any idea when we will get the firmware upgrade?

I have found on the HDMI input that if you make an adjustment to the COLOR or CONTRAST settings that the picture becomes desaturated and loses its "pop."

To fix it, I switched to another HDMI input and then back. That reset color saturation to the perfect level.

I verified this with the AviaPro flashing color bar test.

Next time Art, try changing to a different input and then back again. This is a glitch, and it should be fixed with a firmware upgrade.

I also noticed that the pj lost my user settings, sort of. On the main menu that shows the levels they all said zero (after I had set them the previous evening). Then when I went in to actually re-edit them all of the correct numbers showed up that I had set previously.

I will try your recommendation to change inputs and back and see what happens.

Joe

I have found on the HDMI input that if you make an adjustment to the COLOR or CONTRAST settings that the picture becomes desaturated and loses its "pop."

To fix it, I switched to another HDMI input and then back. That resets color saturation to the perfect level.
The HDMI issues on the HD81 are really starting to drive me nuts. Last night I "accidentally" watched Lost via Component instead of HDMI (from my HR10-250) and my god it looked unbelievable. Better than the many hours of tweaking have ever made my HDMI inputs look.

Just taking the Toshiba HD-A1 as an example here are some of the quirks I've noticed with the HDMI inputs (firmware C05 FYI):

1) Using Video levels requires setting the brightness all the way to 20 and it is still not quite bright enough. Coincidentally, this is still the best I've gotten HDMI to look after calibration.

2) Using PC levels introduces the strange behavior where adjusting COLOR or CONTRAST switches the processor into a mode where the levels go completely nuts (much brighter but more "dull" colors). As Kevin mentioned above, switching to another HDMI input and then back reverts to the original colors.

I'm not even sure which of these two modes (I'll call them BC for "before hitting the Color/Contrast control" and AC for after) is "correct". I've tried bumping the contrast all the way to 20, switching to another HDMI input and then back (to return to BC mode), and then checking a brightness/contrast test pattern from the GetGray calibration DVD, but I'm still lacking in contrast. That is, until I go into AC mode. It is possible to set brightness and contrast correctly in AC mode, but after calibration (with Calman and Spyder2 sensor) the colors are very dull looking and very desaturated. In BC mode I can't even adjust the contrast high enough to begin a calibration.

I'd really like to know what, if any, settings people have honed in on with the HD-A1 via HDMI. My next step will be to try component video instead, especially after how fantastic Lost looked last night via component.

I really wish Optoma would rush a fix for this HDMI problem. The projector is incredible but these quirks are driving me crazy!

-Dave

Dave,

You are experiencing the same issues that I am dealing with. It looks like the only HD compatible inputs one can use with this thing are the YPrPb inputs. With only two of these (No, I have not been able to pass 1080i through the BNC inputs using YPrPb out, I am running woefully short of inputs. Guess I will have to get my Zektor 4 in 1 out and give up the ability to fine tune each input. I am really disappointed. Why is it that all those who reviewed this thing did not find these issues? I am using C04 and I am not sure if it is that much worse than C5.

I also noticed that the pj lost my user settings, sort of. On the main menu that shows the levels they all said zero (after I had set them the previous evening). Then when I went in to actually re-edit them all of the correct numbers showed up that I had set previously.
Joe,

What sort of input device were you using? If it is one that switches resolution depending on content (e.g. an HD receiver that outputs in the same resolution that the content is broadcast in) that could explain what you were seeing. Settings on the HD81 are input resolution dependent, and you need to copy the settings to each of the input resolutions for the given physical input on the scaler.

I've never seen my settings "lost" after making a change, and I have sure made a TON of changes.... ;)


-Dave

I guess I have been lucky because I have older equipment and am not using the HDMI inputs yet. ;) I am running all of my sources through my amp and am connected via a single component connection to the HD81.

For HD content I have a HD PVR and send the HD cable channels through it. Comcast also now has a few HD movies for free "On Demand".

Joe

Joe,

What sort of input device were you using? If it is one that switches resolution depending on content (e.g. an HD receiver that outputs in the same resolution that the content is broadcast in) that could explain what you were seeing. Settings on the HD81 are input resolution dependent, and you need to copy the settings to each of the input resolutions for the given physical input on the scaler.

I've never seen my settings "lost" after making a change, and I have sure made a TON of changes.... ;)


-Dave

Thanks Dave,

That must be it. I was under the understanding that the settings were independent for each physical input.

So are the settings independent for each resolution within each physical connection or just for each resolution across all inputs.

Thanks

Joe

So are the settings independent for each resolution within each physical connection or just for each resolution across all inputs.
There are separate settings for each resolution for each input. HDMI has about 6 different input resolutions supported x 3 HDMI inputs = 18 independent settings just for HDMI. On top of that, there are three "storage slots" for each of these input setting combinations, in case you need to store different settings for a given input/resolution combination.

Whenever I find a setting I like at a given input resolution I'll use the "Copy Settings" feature to copy that setting to all the other input resolutions for that input (assuming that other resolutions are possible from that device).

-Dave

[QUOTE=MrHifi]Ron,

Good to hear there are other old farts out there like me who have some perspective. Up until a year ago, I still used a 1947 Dumont 5 Mhz Dual Trace scope. It died finally so I traded up to a gorgeous Tektronix portable that I bought on EBAY for almost nothing compared to what I was paying for tubes to replace burned out ones on the Dumont.
QUOTE]
Art -

Great minds think alike, about 2 years ago a purchased a 4 trace Tek scope off of eBay to replace an aging 5 Mhz Heathkit O'Scope I had built in the early 70's.

Ron

Last night I spent a couple of hours calibrating my Component input fed by my Toshiba HD-A1. I got a nice grayscale, but I'm not happy with the color saturation after calibration. I'm certainly no calibration expert, so I thought I'd detail my steps and those of you with more experience can correct me if I'm messing up somewhere.

I'm using the Calman "spreadsheet" calibration software with a Spyder2 sensor. Not the greatest tools, I know, but I can tell by eye that my grayscale looks much more accurate post calibration. I'm also using an SD DVD to calibrate it since no HD DVD calibration discs are yet available. I switch back and forth between the GetGray Calibration DVD and AVIA. The HD-A1 is set to output in 1080i mode (component video).

1) First turn off all post processing in the scaler (Edge Enhance, Color Enhance, B/W Expand, etc).

2) Use the calibration DVD to set brightness and contrast with the standard user controls. Sometimes I switch back and forth between GetGray and AVIA to get this right; the component 1080i output of the HD-A1 seems to pass BTB so that made this step easier.

3) Next use the 10% step full field grayscale patterns to measure my grayscale from 0 - 100 (11 measurements). Analyze the RGB results and adjust RGB contrast and brightness in the Color Temperature User menu to bring them more in line. The Red in particular was tailing off above 80 so I had to reduce all the contrasts to make sure I don't run out of Red at the top end.

4) After about 5 or 6 runs through I had a really nice accurate gamma curve with a color temperature very close to 6500K. Viewing a grayscale step pattern looks great.

5) Here is where I get confused: I now bring up the Saturation/Hue adjustment patterns (tried both of my calibration discs) and use a blue filter to adjust hue and saturation. I'm able to dial hue in easily with the user controls; however my saturation is WAY off. No amount of tweaking the color control will bring this in line.

Watching real video content brings home the fact that my colors are very muted and desaturated. The color control does not seem to improve this in any meaningful way.

I even spent some time with the Color Vividness settings, but there are just way too many adjustments in there and I quickly gave up.

It almost seems as if my "color" control is broken. Has anybody else seen this or can identify something I'm doing wrong in my process that would cause such a result? Am I wrong to try calibrating my HD-DVD player input with an SD-DVD?

By the way I got similar results after calibrating the HDMI output of the HD-A1. All the quirks with HDMI are what led me to try component instead, only to end up after all this with similar results.

Any help is appreciated.... :)


-Dave

Last night I spent a couple of hours calibrating my Component input fed by my Toshiba HD-A1. I got a nice grayscale, but I'm not happy with the color saturation after calibration. I'm certainly no calibration expert, so I thought I'd detail my steps and those of you with more experience can correct me if I'm messing up somewhere.

I'm using the Calman "spreadsheet" calibration software with a Spyder2 sensor. Not the greatest tools, I know, but I can tell by eye that my grayscale looks much more accurate post calibration. I'm also using an SD DVD to calibrate it since no HD DVD calibration discs are yet available. I switch back and forth between the GetGray Calibration DVD and AVIA. The HD-A1 is set to output in 1080i mode (component video).

1) First turn off all post processing in the scaler (Edge Enhance, Color Enhance, B/W Expand, etc).

2) Use the calibration DVD to set brightness and contrast with the standard user controls. Sometimes I switch back and forth between GetGray and AVIA to get this right; the component 1080i output of the HD-A1 seems to pass BTB so that made this step easier.

3) Next use the 10% step full field grayscale patterns to measure my grayscale from 0 - 100 (11 measurements). Analyze the RGB results and adjust RGB contrast and brightness in the Color Temperature User menu to bring them more in line. The Red in particular was tailing off above 80 so I had to reduce all the contrasts to make sure I don't run out of Red at the top end.

4) After about 5 or 6 runs through I had a really nice accurate gamma curve with a color temperature very close to 6500K. Viewing a grayscale step pattern looks great.

5) Here is where I get confused: I now bring up the Saturation/Hue adjustment patterns (tried both of my calibration discs) and use a blue filter to adjust hue and saturation. I'm able to dial hue in easily with the user controls; however my saturation is WAY off. No amount of tweaking the color control will bring this in line.

Watching real video content brings home the fact that my colors are very muted and desaturated. The color control does not seem to improve this in any meaningful way.

I even spent some time with the Color Vividness settings, but there are just way too many adjustments in there and I quickly gave up.

It almost seems as if my "color" control is broken. Has anybody else seen this or can identify something I'm doing wrong in my process that would cause such a result? Am I wrong to try calibrating my HD-DVD player input with an SD-DVD?

By the way I got similar results after calibrating the HDMI output of the HD-A1. All the quirks with HDMI are what led me to try component instead, only to end up after all this with similar results.

Any help is appreciated.... :)


-Dave

The only change that I would make, and I am definitely less of an expert than you are, would be to have the HD-DVD player push SD-DVD and let the HD81 processor do all of the work. I know I am talking scaling and not color but I have not seen what you are seeing using the component inputs and the Avia disk yet my process was almost identical to yours.

Joe

The only change that I would make, and I am definitely less of an expert than you are, would be to have the HD-DVD player push SD-DVD and let the HD81 processor do all of the work. I know I am talking scaling and not color but I have not seen what you are seeing using the component inputs and the Avia disk yet my process was almost identical to yours.
I will certainly try that, although I don't think color should be affected by the output resolution but who knows. The reason I used 1080i was because that was the input resolution I was primarily interested in calibrating. I certainly agree that the HD81 will do a better job of scaling 480i than the HD-A1 does, but I don't watch SD-DVDs through the HD-A1. I have an HTPC for that :)

Thanks for the input.

-Dave

5) Here is where I get confused: I now bring up the Saturation/Hue adjustment patterns (tried both of my calibration discs) and use a blue filter to adjust hue and saturation. I'm able to dial hue in easily with the user controls; however my saturation is WAY off. No amount of tweaking the color control will bring this in line.
As mentioned in a previous post, I have seen the same phenomenon . Switch to another HDMI input and then back. Check your color bars again for saturation and they should be right on. I did this a number of times. If you adjust COLOR or CONTRAST, the projector loses saturation. If you switch inputs, it comes back to normal.

Like you, I turned off all the processing for 1080i sources and I used the NATIVE setting for the aspect ratio (this gives 1x1 pixel mapping).

In addition, I think that the black level setting (DVI-VIDEO and DVI-PC) and not set correctly or are not working as they should (the manual is a little confusing because it uses the term "pedestal" which technically doesn't apply to the digital HDMI connection. DVI-VIDEO should be digital luminance levels 16-235 and DVI-PC should be 0-255.

As others have noted, if I select DVI-VIDEO (which should be the correct setting), I have to set brightness to 20 to even got close to the correct setting; therefore, I use DVI-PC, which gives me a brightness setting of 0.

The problem is that the HDTV and DVD output using the "digital video" levels of 16-235. If the projector is set for 0-255, then it has to "convert" the black levels from VIDEO to PC, which can create banding and other artifacts. However, I haven't seen these artifacts using DVI-PC, which is why I think this is not correct.

I will certainly try that, although I don't think color should be affected by the output resolution but who knows. The reason I used 1080i was because that was the input resolution I was primarily interested in calibrating. I certainly agree that the HD81 will do a better job of scaling 480i than the HD-A1 does, but I don't watch SD-DVDs through the HD-A1. I have an HTPC for that :)

Thanks for the input.

-Dave

It must be something because ever since I made my adjustments absolutely everyone that has seen the picture makes comemnts on how amazing it is.

So the projector is capable, we just need to figure out the complexities(capabilities) of the scaler.

Joe

This morning my wife and I finally achieved perfection to within 1/32" in 96" of width. The ability to adjust the projector in slight horizontal movements using the lateral kit that is available for the RPAU, has made the physical mounting on the ceiling worthwhile. I strongly suggest you order the kit if you get a Chief RPAU.

My picture is doing the same thing others are seeing. A full blown setup at this point is useless. The projector has a glitch. I hope that it is the software that they developed for the HD81/VXD3000 combo. Otherwise, why would owners of the VXD3000 not have reported these things. My colors are washed out. Switching the HDMI has no consistent effect. I have two identical sources that use HDMI. At any given moment either or both will be washed out. Someone at Optoma owes us an explanation. Where's Tom and some of the others who did the evaluations? Have you experienced what we are seeing? When will we get an upgrade that works?

I'm not too worried about this problem (yet) because it should be an easy fix with a firmware upgrade (I have version C05).

In re-reading the Ultimate AV review of the HD81, it too mentions the problem with the pedestal setting (DVI-VIDEO vs DVI-PC) and color.

Wings going to Taiwan for a week, says when he comes back he'll clean up the site and get the firmware up for download.

I'm not too worried about this problem (yet) because it should be an easy fix with a firmware upgrade (I have version C05).

In re-reading the Ultimate AV review of the HD81, it too mentions the problem with the pedestal setting (DVI-VIDEO vs DVI-PC) and color.

Have we had any word from TzungILin about all these problems? With the amount of hours he has obviously spent with this PJ I would think he would have experienced all these matters himself. It would be nice to know that someone is working very hard over at Optoma to rectify these faults, rather than keeping us all hoping and waiting, in the dark.

Optoma really do need to step up here and should use this forum to assure us they are doing something. They were all so nice and helpful at Cedia, but where are they now? Also, Optoma, where are those Schneider anamorphic lenses? We were promised delivery four weeks after Cedia and still we have no sign of them. In fact, we can't even get Optoma to give us the specs on this lens!

Come on Optoma.

Kevin,

Do you feel the firmware upgrade will affect both the VXD3000 and the projector? If so, and I believe that is the case, it seems to me that Optoma has many issues to deal with...

DVD-PC/DVI-Video

IRIS reaction and sensitivity in Auto

Intermittent loss of color

BNC inputs do not accept 1080i in RGBHV or YPrPbKevin,

I'm glad you have version 05. Many of us have 04 and it is not a pleasant experience. Granted, their product engineer suggested I send it in for an update but frankly would you want to send yours in after waiting for several months? I think Optoma or whoever has the respnsibility should post the firmware immediately, then do whatever else is necessary. If this product gets any more negative commentary, they might as well stop production.

I've just about convinced myself that the HD-81 is a 'possible' pj for me, but since this will be my first FP setup I'm begining to get a mild case of 'cold feet' with all of these glitches and patches that seem to be necessary to achieve its full potential. The Pearl seems to be a bit more 'idiot proof', and BenQ's pj are reported to be esentially ISF'ed out of the box. I certainly like much of what I've been reading about the HD-81, but I'm a bit skiddish. I'm not going to by buying until this spring/summer, though, so maybe all this will be settled by then. And maybe, even, Optoma will have the 'HD-82' out that is more 'room friendly' in terms of location, lens shift, etc.

I know it is early days for those already up and running with the HD81 but has anyone looked in to replacement bulbs? I checked out the Optoma web site, mainly just to find out the cost of a replacement bulb, but all I got was 'product unavailable'.

I know it is early days for those already up and running with the HD81 but has anyone looked in to replacement bulbs? I checked out the Optoma web site, mainly just to find out the cost of a replacement bulb, but all I got was 'product unavailable'.

Look for a replacement lamp for the EP910 ;)

Look for a replacement lamp for the EP910 ;)

Same thing happens!

While on the subject of bulbs .... How easy is it to replace the bulb in the HD81?

After another day of watching HD, I am more disapointed than ever. SOOOOOOOOOOOO Dark. I had my 1971 Sony KV-1500 on next to my screen. I could see detail in the black that was totally gone on the big screen unless I turned the bulb on brite and the gamma to 5 and the brightness to 15. This washed out the colors and destroyed the picture. This is a real disappointment. Where are you OPTOMA?

I think we need to start up a whole new thread (or a 'sticky', although I'm not really sure what that is) aimed solely at bringing someone out of the woodwork at Optoma, giving some straight answers and informing us of what they are doing to correct all these quirks of the HD81. It's a pity that such a great image producing PJ, that this unquestionably is, should be mired with so many problems. My order is in for this PJ but I am getting concerned about my choice. Question is, what else is out there that will produce such a stunning and bright image to fill a 2.40:1, 122 inch screen? At least at that price point.

We need answers, so come on Optoma, talk to us!

MCBRacer: I'm very much of the same mind as you. There seems to be so much potential with this pj (love the brightness) but all the quirkiness kind of scares me off--especially since this is going to be my first FP setup. About all I can do re calibration on my own is AVIA, DVE, etc. I have had my present 73" Mits 1080p rptv ISF'ed (and though it was certainly an improvement, I had done pretty well on my own), and will likely do this for an FP, but it sounds like the people that have been able to deal with the HD-81 are ISF certified themselves! Thus the HD-81 may not be what I want to take on as my first projector.

I've owned 5 projectors and calibrated dozens more. Every one had some quirk in its operation that required a work-around of one kind or another. HD display devices are incredibly complex machines -- even more complex than your average computer. How many times has your computer had a glitch. Does that keep people from buying and using them? Now that I know the idosycracies of the HD81, I can easily work around them. For the first time yesterday I just watched movies (standard def DVDs at that) and just enjoyed the image, which was incredible. The benefit of watching SD DVDs that I've seens dozens of times is that I started to realize how much more detail I'm seeing with the HD81.

If anyone is interested, I'm happy to post my settings, including the RGB settings for white balance -- not that they will be perfect for you, but they should at least be ball park.

I think the main thing I've done is set contrast and color and then not touch them.

Bill: I think, by the time you are ready to jump in, a lot of issues will be dealt with, except for the auto iris. If you can live without that, I think you'll be OK.

I, on the other hand, have to decide right now, but I don't really see much of a choice, at least as far as a PJ bright enough to fill my screen size. I could go up to the higher price range, but I don't want to do that, I've already gone over budget as it is!

I think their are many people in the same boat (judging by what we are seeing here on the AVS forum) and I believe it is time we heard from Optoma directly. They have set themselves up here with a platform for a great product (i.e; the HD81 V2!) and the last thing they should be doing is ignoring those of us who have either committed to this PJ or are contemplating it, even those who have already dismissed it. The influence of this forum could catapult the HD81 to PJ stardom or it could bring it down very quickly. Just look at how this PJ was glorified (mostly) in this thread and look at how that attitude is apparently changing, now that the product is in the field.

Optoma's timely response could save the day.

After another day of watching HD, I am more disapointed than ever. SOOOOOOOOOOOO Dark. I could see detail in the black that was totally gone on the big screen unless I turned the bulb on brite and the gamma to 5 and the brightness to 15.
Art - have you checked the pedestal level to make sure it is DVI-PC? DVI-VIDEO (at least on mine) is too dark to fix even with brightness and gamma set at full throttle. Have you tried turning off the iris? While it diminishes overall contrast ratio, it certainly increases brightness and shadow detail.

From Kevin R. Anderson. If anyone is interested, I'm happy to post my settings, including the RGB settings for white balance -- not that they will be perfect for you, but they should at least be ball park.

Kevin, I certainly would be interested. Thanks!

Here are my settings for HDMI with the Toshiba HD-A1 DVD player on a 110" diagonal screen with a 1.4 gain. Your mileage may vary, buyer beware, don't try this at home, and all other such warnings apply:

Pedestal Level: DVI-PC

Iris: fixed at 8-4 depending on source material (sometimes I use auto iris for fun and ignore the pumping and clicking)

Contrast 3

Brightness 0-2 (depending on the source material)

Tint -6

Gamma +2 to +5 (depending on source material; e.g., I thought HD-DVD Bourne Supremecy needed +5)

User Mode: TV

RGB Contrast
R = 4
G = -11
B = -9

RGB Brightness
R = 0
G = -1
B = 0

I've owned 5 projectors and calibrated dozens more. Every one had some quirk in its operation that required a work-around of one kind or another. HD display devices are incredibly complex machines -- even more complex than your average computer. How many times has your computer had a glitch. Does that keep people from buying and using them? Now that I know the idosycracies of the HD81, I can easily work around them. For the first time yesterday I just watched movies (standard def DVDs at that) and just enjoyed the image, which was incredible. The benefit of watching SD DVDs that I've seens dozens of times is that I started to realize how much more detail I'm seeing with the HD81.

If anyone is interested, I'm happy to post my settings, including the RGB settings for white balance -- not that they will be perfect for you, but they should at least be ball park.

I think the main thing I've done is set contrast and color and then not touch them.

Kevin, Thanks very much for the reassurance! If I do get the HD-81, maybe you will be out in the Bay Area this summer and I can get you to do a calib for me!!

I do actually believe that I can shoehorn this pj into my room (14x17.2, 8.3 ceiling) if I cut back my intended screen size from 120" diag to 118', not too much of a compromise. And with a 21" vertical offset (and the lens 5" from the ceiling--is this the min that one can do, without cutting into the ceiling, just screwing a mount onto it?), the lens will be 26" from the ceiling. And I would probable tilt the pj slightly, as you do, to reduce it to ~23".

But a couple of questions:

1) Does the video processor, the 7300, have to be in line-of-sight to the remote control (that is in your hand)? Or can it be behind something?

2) There are 3 things that must be plugged into the pj--the power cord, the HDMI, and the control cable, right? It would be most convenient for me to run these all right alongside each other (and also alongside two speaker wires that go to the rear surround speakers). Is there any problem that this would cause; i.e., does the electric field from the power cord cause any distortion in the HDMI or the speaker wires, etc.?

3) The pj will be as close to the ceiling as possible, and as close to the back wall as possible. Since the back wall is above a closet, I can cut small hole in the wall to bring the connections to the pj right through the back wall to it, thus putting the pj right up against the back wall (to get as long a throw as possible). Guitarman said that there is no cooling or exhaust air in or out from the rear of the pj, so it seems that this would be OK; right?

Thanks for any help; I'm beginning to get psyched for this pj since it looks like I can in fact fit it in! Re a screen, I would get a Firehawk G3. Does one know whether the G3 has any more gain than the present G2 version of the FH?

1) Does the video processor, the 7300, have to be in line-of-sight to the remote control (that is in your hand)? Or can it be behind something?
The processor has a remote sensor next to the "on" button, but it also comes with a separate remote sensor and a 6' cord so you can place the sensor in a more convenient location.

Either the sensor on the processor or the remote sensor needs to be line-of-sight with hand-held remote. The projector does not have a sensor.

With an extension cord (easy to make or buy), you should be able to place the remote sensor anywhere you need it. A nice feature.

The projector pulls cool air from the left (when on the ceiling and looking towards the screen) and vents hot air to the right. No venting to the rear.

The power cord may impact the speaker wires but not the HDMI cable (assuming both are properly grounded).

The processor has a remote sensor next to the "on" button, but it also comes with a separate remote sensor and a 6' cord so you can place the sensor in a more convenient location.

Either the sensor on the processor or the remote sensor needs to be line-of-sight with hand-held remote. The projector does not have a sensor.

With an extension cord (easy to make or buy), you should be able to place the remote sensor anywhere you need it. A nice feature.

The projector pulls cool air from the left (when on the ceiling and looking towards the screen) and vents hot air to the right. No venting to the rear.

The power cord may impact the speaker wires but not the HDMI cable (assuming both are properly grounded).

Kevin, Thanks much for the info. Boy, this remote sensor for the 7300 does sound VERY convenient. And from what you say about the fans intake and exhaust (consistent with Guitarman's post earlier), it does sound like I can mount the pj right against the back wall.

Re the speaker wires, since they are the back surround speakers, and thus don't carry very much, I may just try running them around with the power cord. If I did run them separately, do you have any idea how far a 'safe distance' is to have them apart? E.g., if they run parallel but 6" apart, would that be OK?

A question about the Gennum scaler. I keep hearing praises about it, but I am not sure that if living in a PAL country I am going to take advantage of these scaling / pulldown capabilities.

So, to summarize my question: are Gennum scaling algorithms equally good applied to a PAL signal or I am wasting the money? Is there any video processor capable of "slowing down" 25fps PAL DVDs to proper 24fps?

Should I look for a different video processor? May be Sony is better for PAL, being originally from a PAL country???

Please, any help appreciated, I am a little lost on these issues

Bill..............

Did you say you were going to run the cables down into a closet which is at the back of the room and then from there out to the projector?

If I understood you correctly have you considered mounting the projector up in the top of the closet and cutting a small rectangular hole in the wall (where you would have run the cable through) for the light.. just like a "real" theater???

That is similar to how I have my projector mounted and it is absolutely terrific having it completely out of sight!!

I've been studying the HD-81's User Manual and have a question (for Kevin, or anyone else who knows): has to do with connecting a cable stb and a dvd player to the VP box, pp 19 and 20 of the manual. Specifically, I will be using 'option 2' on pg 20 since my avr (Pio 1014) doesn't have a HDMI input. At present I connect the video out of the stb and dvd to my rptv via HDMI, and connect the audio output from each of them directly to the avr via digital audio cables (standard procedure). This leads to audio/video sync issues that I solve with a Felston delay box.

With 'option 2' , I will be doing essentially the same thing: HDMI cables from the stb and dvd to the VP box, and audio cables out from them directly to the avr. And according to pg 20, I connect a short HDMI cable from the 'avr out' to the 'avr in' of the VP. Now the question: will this setup deal with audio/video sync correctly without having to use the Felston box, or not? [Sorry to be so long-winded, but I'm hoping to make the question clear.]

Bill..............

Did you say you were going to run the cables down into a closet which is at the back of the room and then from there out to the projector?

If I understood you correctly have you considered mounting the projector up in the top of the closet and cutting a small rectangular hole in the wall (where you would have run the cable through) for the light.. just like a "real" theater???

That is similar to how I have my projector mounted and it is absolutely terrific having it completely out of sight!!

Steve, now this is a GREAT idea! At present I don't see anything that would prevent it. It would solve the 'throw distance' limitation, but not help any wrt the offset limitation. But it would at least mean that I would not have to have the zoom at its extreme limit, which I presume is good. And it would also obviously solve any 'noise' problem (but which I gather is really not bad anyway).

A possible problem might be heat dissapation: the closet is closed, and reasonably full of 'stuff' (aren't they always?) What about this?

Yes Bill this would get you some more distance for your throw... and for the heat issue, just install a small fan up at the top of the closet where you are cutting a hole to bring the cables through... get a low speed fan with a low "sone" (i think it is spelled) rating and it will be nice and quiet and get rid of any heat issues.

Now the question: will this setup deal with audio/video sync correctly without having to use the Felston box, or not? [Sorry to be so long-winded, but I'm hoping to make the question clear.]
I've done both setups and have not noticed any audio sync issues. There is a test on AVIAPro (I think DVE also has such a test) that will check this with good accuracy. I haven't run it yet because I have not seen it to be a problem.

Kevin,

I tried your posted HDMI settings yesterday and they looked GREAT! Much better than I was able to get tweaking on my own. I've decided to shelve my calibration equipment until a new firmware update is released, since I think that may be the main culprit, but I'm really happy with how things look now. Thanks so much!

Have you messed around with the YPbPr inputs at all? I'd be curious to see what sort of settings you've come up with on that side. I've got an XBox 360 hooked up via component 1080i and it is looking a bit on the dull side..

Thanks.

-Dave

OK, I know that the cooling and exhaust air comes in and goes out the sides of the HD-81. Can someone tell me WHICH SIDE the HOT air comes out? I.e., on the same side as the lens, or the opposite? Thanks much!

Hot air is vented on the opposite side of the lens.

Have you messed around with the YPbPr inputs at all? I'd be curious to see what sort of settings you've come up with on that side. I've got an XBox 360 hooked up via component 1080i and it is looking a bit on the dull side.
I'm glad the settings were of some use. I haven't done anything with the component inputs, but if I get the chance, I will use the Accupel to do a component calibration.

Art - have you checked the pedestal level to make sure it is DVI-PC? DVI-VIDEO (at least on mine) is too dark to fix even with brightness and gamma set at full throttle. Have you tried turning off the iris? While it diminishes overall contrast ratio, it certainly increases brightness and shadow detail.


Kevin,
I assure you, I m doing everything corrctly. I am using the DVI-PC setting because the other is useless, too dark. I have 04 and with my o4, changng color and contrast hardly affects the picture. Switching HDMI's as you suggested has no effect. Perhaps o4 operates differently than 05. From the comments it appears that may be the case. Every so often the picture has saturated colors and is gorgeous. When this occurs, I leave it not adjusting anything even though tint may need tweaking. I am so disappointed!!!!!!!!. Fighting this thing every time I switch sources is getting really old. At this pint, I regret purchasing it and am angry at those who praised this unit without thoroughly evaluating it. My only hope is that Optoma can come up with fixes for whatever is causing the projector to act erratically. I do not have another load of money t throw away. I would love to be able to sit down and watch a program without seeing glitch after glitch manifest itself in front of my eyes. WHERE"S THE NEW FIRMWARE OPTOMA?

Hot air is vented on the opposite side of the lens.

Thanks Kevin!

Kevin,
I assure you, I m doing everything corrctly. I am using the DVI-PC setting because the other is useless, too dark. I have 04 and with my o4, changng color and contrast hardly affects the picture. Switching HDMI's as you suggested has no effect. Perhaps o4 operates differently than 05. From the comments it appears that may be the case. Every so often the picture has saturated colors and is gorgeous. When this occurs, I leave it not adjusting anything even though tint may need tweaking. I am so disappointed!!!!!!!!. Fighting this thing every time I switch sources is getting really old. At this pint, I regret purchasing it and am angry at those who praised this unit without thoroughly evaluating it. My only hope is that Optoma can come up with fixes for whatever is causing the projector to act erratically. I do not have another load of money t throw away. I would love to be able to sit down and watch a program without seeing glitch after glitch manifest itself in front of my eyes. WHERE"S THE NEW FIRMWARE OPTOMA?

Art,

I am waiting for the new firmware release too but I am not experiencing the same problems as the rest of you. I think that I may have mentioned this before but I am solely using component right now. Once I adjusted the projector the image has been outstanding ever since. As you stated above, the projector is capable, which I believe is the critical component. Even though I am not experiencing your difficulties I sympathize because I have enjoyed many movies and TV shows with the amazing picture. Whthout those experiences I would be very frustrated too.

Joe

Jmorris,

Thanks for your kind words. Could not help noticing your signature comments. My son was the drum major for his high shool band. He went on to lead the Gentlemen of the College, an acapella group at William and Mary. My daughter played in the U. of MD band and now plays in the Washinton Redskins Band. She also plays in the U of MD Community Band. Band is good for kids. My son is an attorney and my daughter is a Doctor of Physical Therapy. I am very proud of both of them and I credit their participation in band for much of that success.

Sorry for going off topic guys.

Bill..............

Did you say you were going to run the cables down into a closet which is at the back of the room and then from there out to the projector?

If I understood you correctly have you considered mounting the projector up in the top of the closet and cutting a small rectangular hole in the wall (where you would have run the cable through) for the light.. just like a "real" theater???

That is similar to how I have my projector mounted and it is absolutely terrific having it completely out of sight!!

Steve, I have to thank you again for this suggestion. It has really gotten my mind whirring, thinking about all the good things with this arrangement: no throw limitation, no noise, and no light spillage. And the long throw is perfect for the characteristics of the Firehawk screen, as is the large offset. And I checked last night that the wall between the room and the closet behind is hollow up near the ceiling, so cutting a hole through it will be no problem.

But now that the throw limitation is removed, I can have a larger screen--but how large? My wife and I will be sitting 12.5 to 13 ft from the screen, and I had been planning on 120" diag; but the front wall could easily handle up to 126". I don't want to overdo it (as it has been pointed out many 'first timers' often do), but then I don't want to regret not going large enough. One problem solved, another rears up!

And the offset problem is still there: with a 120" diag screen (59" high) the offset is ~21", so with 5" for the mount the top of the screen 'should' be at least 26" below the ceiling, and thus 15" above the floor (100 - 26 - 59). This is lower than what I think is ideal, but only ~3 to 5" so, so Kevin's experience on tilting the pj a bit seems like it would actually make this not much of a problem.

I'm still going to wait until the spring before I plung into FP, but the HD-81 is certainly at the top of the list at present. And certainly will be if its 'quirks' get ironed out by then. But I am, of course, going to be following the other pj's that will be coming out, the BenQ W10000, JVC 'New', and maybe an Infocus and/or Samsung. But since I really do like dlp, and since the HD-81 looks like it will work for me, I think I will rule out the Pearl, Mits 5000, and Panny 1000.

Just to inform all those suffering with HD81 glitches, I sent an e-mail yesterday to a person at Optoma USA (nameless for now, but someone reasonably high up in the chain there) urging him to review this thread and note the difficulties people are having with this product. I urged him to use this forum to enlighten everyone as to how Optoma are planning to respond to these problems ..... and when!

It may be a complete waste of time, we'll see. If we do not get a response we can all get together and barrage him (and any other contacts at Optoma we can find) with a few hundred e-mails.

I ordered an HD81 today from Jason, along with a Stewart Studiotek 2:35:1 screen. I have
already pre-ordered the Panamorph UH380 anamorphic lens and M380 transport.

I have been in contact with the Optoma product manager and he says they will be putting
firmware updates on the web. CO6 is in beta testing and he told me I can come by and have my HD81 updated since I live nearby, but I'm hoping CO6 will be on the web by the time I get my projector, assuming CO5 has HDMI and other issues.

The Schneider anamorphic lens won't be available until late November or early December through Optoma, is what I'm being told.

Jeff Regan

I ordered an HD81 today from Jason, along with a Stewart Studiotek 2:35:1 screen. I have
already pre-ordered the Panamorph UH380 anamorphic lens and M380 transport.

I have been in contact with the Optoma product manager and he says they will be putting
firmware updates on the web. CO6 is in beta testing and he told me I can come by and have my HD81 updated since I live nearby, but I'm hoping CO6 will be on the web by the time I get my projector, assuming CO5 has HDMI and other issues.

The Schneider anamorphic lens won't be available until late November or early December through Optoma, is what I'm being told.

Jeff Regan

congratulations. Welcome to the club :)

Joe

Jeff, Thanks for the info. It would be nice if they were to post throw distances on the web site for an anamorphic, 2.35:1 set up. I'm actually going with a 2.40:1 set up (Studiotek also) and getting the numbers for this is like getting blood from a stone. The delivery date for the Schneider lens keeps moving ever further away. At Cedia we were assured of delivery four weeks ahead. Good luck with your set up, I hope you (and I) will not be joining the group of angry HD81 end user's!

Jmorris,

Thanks for your kind words. Could not help noticing your signature comments. My son was the drum major for his high shool band. He went on to lead the Gentlemen of the College, an acapella group at William and Mary. My daughter played in the U. of MD band and now plays in the Washinton Redskins Band. She also plays in the U of MD Community Band. Band is good for kids. My son is an attorney and my daughter is a Doctor of Physical Therapy. I am very proud of both of them and I credit their participation in band for much of that success.

Sorry for going off topic guys.

Just one more OT. The best thing I did for my kids was to make them take piano lessons from 6 years old through seniors in high school. Even now, at 24 and 28 they continually thank us for doing that. It was one of the best things I could have done for them. For all of you with young children. Do this for them. It is lifelong and even though there might be tough times going through it, they will thank you forever.

Joe

snip...

And the offset problem is still there: with a 120" diag screen (59" high) the offset is ~21", so with 5" for the mount the top of the screen 'should' be at least 26" below the ceiling, and thus 15" above the floor (100 - 26 - 59). This is lower than what I think is ideal, but only ~3 to 5" so, so Kevin's experience on tilting the pj a bit seems like it would actually make this not much of a problem.

...snip

I have my projector and screen in a temporary position and have very little flexibility to work with. The screen is 8 feet wide and the projector is at full zoom sitting on a table on a hat box behind the couch. (You can see the temporary setup in my theater thread.)

Now for the disturbing news, the projector is 1 foot inside the image. Yes, INSIDE the image. Yes I have about 2 inches of kerning but no one has seen any focus problems. Even when I tell them to look for it. So all of the wranglings we all have done, including me (heck, I wrote the dang calculator), IMO was mostly for naught.

When you convert the digitally created image on the screen to the analog eyes the required calculations become much more flexible than the pure ones we have dealt with. I am sure each person will have their own perceptions but I am going to be more than happy with a small tilt and a small bit of kerning that I will hide with the black velvet surround of the screen.

Joe

I have my projector and screen in a temporary position and have very little flexibility to work with. The screen is 8 feet wide and the projector is at full zoom sitting on a table on a hat box behind the couch. (You can see the temporary setup in my theater thread.)

Now for the disturbing news, the projector is 1 foot inside the image. Yes, INSIDE the image. Yes I have about 2 inches of kerning but no one has seen any focus problems. Even when I tell them to look for it. So all of the wranglings we all have done, including me (heck, I wrote the dang calculator), IMO was mostly for naught.

When you convert the digitally created image on the screen to the analog eyes the required calculations become much more flexible than the pure ones we have dealt with. I am sure each person will have their own perceptions but I am going to be more than happy with a small tilt and a small bit of kerning that I will hide with the black velvet surround of the screen.

Joe

I'm not sure I know what you mean when you say the 'projector is 1 foot inside the image'? You mean the pj is 1 foot BELOW the top of the screen, rather than the offset amount (~20" say) ABOVE it? So you have to tilt the pj enough to shift the image by ~32" vertically? Kevin had to tilt his pj to raise his image by ~11", I believe, and got about 1" of keystone on each side; and you are raising yours by 3x that amount. Seems like you would have a very large keystone. Strange (but I may have missunderstood your situation).

Steve, I have to thank you again for this suggestion. It has really gotten my mind whirring, thinking about all the good things with this arrangement: no throw limitation, no noise, and no light spillage. And the long throw is perfect for the characteristics of the Firehawk screen, as is the large offset. And I checked last night that the wall between the room and the closet behind is hollow up near the ceiling, so cutting a hole through it will be no problem.

But now that the throw limitation is removed, I can have a larger screen--but how large? My wife and I will be sitting 12.5 to 13 ft from the screen, and I had been planning on 120" diag; but the front wall could easily handle up to 126". I don't want to overdo it (as it has been pointed out many 'first timers' often do), but then I don't want to regret not going large enough. One problem solved, another rears up!

And the offset problem is still there: with a 120" diag screen (59" high) the offset is ~21", so with 5" for the mount the top of the screen 'should' be at least 26" below the ceiling, and thus 15" above the floor (100 - 26 - 59). This is lower than what I think is ideal, but only ~3 to 5" so, so Kevin's experience on tilting the pj a bit seems like it would actually make this not much of a problem.



Personally I would be a bit on the cautious side, meaning don't stretch things to their very limit in terms of screen size, which, in turn, will affect things such as offset.

If you are sitting 12.5 to 13 feet from the screen, I would certainly think that a 120" diagonal screen would be sufficient size. That is nearly 9 feet wide. 1.5 screen widths would put you at 13.5 feet, so I think you are about right. I sit 14 feet from my 123" screen, and I consider it perfect. However, it is not unusual for some people who visit to say that the front row is too close for them, and they prefer viewing from the second row (which is on a riser/platform) which puts them at a viewing distance of about 18.5 feet.

I have NEVER had anyone ask me why I didn't get a BIGGER screen! ;)

I'm not sure I know what you mean when you say the 'projector is 1 foot inside the image'? You mean the pj is 1 foot BELOW the top of the screen, rather than the offset amount (~20" say) ABOVE it? So you have to tilt the pj enough to shift the image by ~32" vertically? Kevin had to tilt his pj to raise his image by ~11", I believe, and got about 1" of keystone on each side; and you are raising yours by 3x that amount. Seems like you would have a very large keystone. Strange (but I may have missunderstood your situation).

Well, kind of. Because the projector is sitting on a table it is actually 1 foot above the bottom of the image. And I just got home and actually measured it. It is only 6 inches inside the image. Not the foot that I estimated when I was at work. But still, IMO the offset becomes much less of an issue.

Joe

Well, kind of. Because the projector is sitting on a table it is actually 1 foot above the bottom of the image. And I just got home and actually measured it. It is only 6 inches inside the image. Not the foot that I estimated when I was at work. But still, IMO the offset becomes much less of an issue.Joe

Gotcha--I was inverting the pj in my mind, but the same. I.e., your pj 'should' be ~20", say (the offset amount) BELOW the screen bottom, rather than ~6" above it; still a tilt in the pj to produce a ~26" vertical shift of the image. Weird that you don't get an objectional degree of keystone, but good!

Gotcha--I was inverting the pj in my mind, but the same. I.e., your pj 'should' be ~20", say (the offset amount) BELOW the screen bottom, rather than ~6" above it; still a tilt in the pj to produce a ~26" vertical shift of the image. Weird that you don't get an objectional degree of keystone, but good!

Oh, don't get me wrong. The keystone is objectionable and I will minimize it and hide it. What surprises me is that the focus is not objectionable. That is what actually has curiosity peaked.

Joe

Personally I would be a bit on the cautious side, meaning don't stretch things to their very limit in terms of screen size, which, in turn, will affect things such as offset.

If you are sitting 12.5 to 13 feet from the screen, I would certainly think that a 120" diagonal screen would be sufficient size. That is nearly 9 feet wide. 1.5 screen widths would put you at 13.5 feet, so I think you are about right. I sit 14 feet from my 123" screen, and I consider it perfect. However, it is not unusual for some people who visit to say that the front row is too close for them, and they prefer viewing from the second row (which is on a riser/platform) which puts them at a viewing distance of about 18.5 feet.

I have NEVER had anyone ask me why I didn't get a BIGGER screen! ;)

Rob, thanks for the advice, which I am certainly in need of! I get 1.5 SW for a 120" diag screen (105" W) to be 13.1 ft, but close enough. I only have one 'row of seats' (actually just two, for my wife and me, with a couch on the side for an occasional visitor); i.e., this is not really a 'HT'!

I suppose I'm used to the RPTV forums, where I used to hang out until I got the FP bug. There everyone talks about the 'incredibly shrinking tv', where many people say after a few months that they wish they had gotten a larger set, but no one ever complains about having gotten one too large. FP, of course, is on a different scale, so I suppose that it is possible to get carried away and go too large. (But is this because people really don't like it so large, or that the pj's are just not bright enough to give a satisfactory pic if the screen is too large?)

Rob, thanks for the advice, which I am certainly in need of! I get 1.5 SW for a 120" diag screen (105" W) to be 13.1 ft, but close enough. I only have one 'row of seats' (actually just two, for my wife and me, with a couch on the side for an occasional visitor); i.e., this is not really a 'HT'!

I suppose I'm used to the RPTV forums, where I used to hang out until I got the FP bug. There everyone talks about the 'incredibly shrinking tv', where many people say after a few months that they wish they had gotten a larger set, but no one ever complains about having gotten one too large. FP, of course, is on a different scale, so I suppose that it is possible to get carried away and go too large. (But is this because people really don't like it so large, or that the pj's are just not bright enough to give a satisfactory pic if the screen is too large?)

Bill,

I have a slightly different slant than Rob. I say make the screen as big as your room can handle. You can always shrink the screen by moving your masking in if you find that it is too big. The reverse is definately not true.

Joe

Bill,

I have a slightly different slant than Rob. I say make the screen as big as your room can handle. You can always shrink the screen by moving your masking in if you find that it is too big. The reverse is definately not true.Joe

Well, I had certainly been thinking, of course, that you can't go bigger once you choose the screen. But then I'm not going to have any masking, so I can't really go smaller either. I will, of couse, get the pj mounted first and show it on a sheet, or something, for a couple of weeks, before making the final choice of the screen size. And in this case it's good to have the HD-81 further back than I had earlier thought possible. E.g., by having it in the closet behind the room, it will put the lens ~ 17.5 ft from the screen, so that the throw ratio (1.85 - 2.22) will produce a screen diag of 108 to 130", well covering the limits of feasibility for me. (If I put it back to 18 ft, the range of screen diag is 112 - 134"). So I can put the pj up at 17.5 or 18 ft, and then decide whether I want a screen of 120" or 126", etc. And the offset is little different, 21" or 22" for 120" or 126" diag.

And the offest

Rob, thanks for the advice, which I am certainly in need of! I get 1.5 SW for a 120" diag screen (105" W) to be 13.1 ft, but close enough. I only have one 'row of seats' (actually just two, for my wife and me, with a couch on the side for an occasional visitor); i.e., this is not really a 'HT'!

I suppose I'm used to the RPTV forums, where I used to hang out until I got the FP bug. There everyone talks about the 'incredibly shrinking tv', where many people say after a few months that they wish they had gotten a larger set, but no one ever complains about having gotten one too large. FP, of course, is on a different scale, so I suppose that it is possible to get carried away and go too large. (But is this because people really don't like it so large, or that the pj's are just not bright enough to give a satisfactory pic if the screen is too large?)

Yes, RPTV and FP are obviously very different. All you have to do is ask yourself this question: how many people in the RPTV forums are sitting 1.5 x screen width? Very few! That is why people in those forums always say to go bigger...as big as you can afford, because even with a 70" screen (HUGE by RPTV standards) most people will STILL be further than 1.5 x screen widths!

As for whether people with FP really don't like it so large, or because the PJ's arent bright enought, I would say a little of both. The best think you could do is try to see a FP setup that is as close to your screen size as possible, and view it from the same seating distance that you will have in order to compare.

And remember: it is easy to move seating forward a bit if you think the screen isn't quite big enough.

Oh, don't get me wrong. The keystone is objectionable and I will minimize it and hide it. What surprises me is that the focus is not objectionable. That is what actually has curiosity peaked.

Joe

You don't notice any geometry issues in the image with this setup?

Yes, RPTV and FP are obviously very different. All you have to do is ask yourself this question: how many people in the RPTV forums are sitting 1.5 x screen width? Very few! That is why people in those forums always say to go bigger...as big as you can afford, because even with a 70" screen (HUGE by RPTV standards) most people will STILL be further than 1.5 x screen widths!

As for whether people with FP really don't like it so large, or because the PJ's arent bright enought, I would say a little of both. The best think you could do is try to see a FP setup that is as close to your screen size as possible, and view it from the same seating distance that you will have in order to compare.

And remember: it is easy to move seating forward a bit if you think the screen isn't quite big enough.

Very true. I now sit ~ 10.5 ft from my Mits 73" 1080p dlp rptv, ~ 2.0 SW. I've experiemented with sitting up at 1.5 SW from it, and think it's fine, but it's not quite the same as 1.5 SW from 12-13 ft away. As explained in a post above, I will wait until I actually have the pj and experience it 'on the wall' for a few weeks before making a final decision of the size. Thanks again for the insights!

Very true. I now sit ~ 10.5 ft from my Mits 73" 1080p dlp rptv, ~ 2.0 SW. I've experiemented with sitting up at 1.5 SW from it, and think it's fine, but it's not quite the same as 1.5 SW from 12-13 ft away. As explained in a post above, I will wait until I actually have the pj and experience it 'on the wall' for a few weeks before making a final decision of the size. Thanks again for the insights!

Any time Bill. I think your plan to buy the screen after you have the pj is definitely the way to go in this situation. You can see exactly where everything will fall, and determine what will work best for your situation.

You don't notice any geometry issues in the image with this setup?

Surprisingly no.

Joe

Surprisingly no.

Joe

Interesting. Do you have any geometry test patterns you could put up and see what it looks like?

I'm wondering if Optoma has any plans to introduce a single box solution for those with another scaler or a preference for another scaler? It sounds like the HD81 is pretty well married to its scaler, but I for one wouldn't mind if all or part of that $1000-$2000 for the scaler was applied to more flexible optics - I bet Optoma would sell more pjs too for something with at a little bit more of a zoom range (pref. powered) and lens shift (at least vertical). What do you think?

sethk: I certainly see your point if you already have a good VP. But personally, I very much like the idea of having a VP especially taylored to the pj. Of course that's because I'm not experienced in FP; if you are, I can see why you would like the extra flexibility.

Just one more OT. The best thing I did for my kids was to make them take piano lessons from 6 years old through seniors in high school. Even now, at 24 and 28 they continually thank us for doing that. It was one of the best things I could have done for them. For all of you with young children. Do this for them. It is lifelong and even though there might be tough times going through it, they will thank you forever.

JoeEveryone's experience is different. My mother also made me take piano lessonf from 6 to the end of high school. I would much rather have spent those wasted hours sitting in front of the piano doing something more beneficial to me, like doing nothing at all.

What is the latest info re 'light spillage'? I.e., are people that have the HD-81 seeing it at an objectionalbe level?

jmorris,

No matter how closely you measure the desired location for the projector lens, you may wind up off center. The lateral kit from Chief for the RPAU allows up to 3” either way or 5 ½” one way. We were able to find a position (using the original mounting holes to the ceiling) where there is no keystone and the sides are absolutely parallel to the screen frame. It took us about 2 hours of fidlng but the satisfaction was enormous. Apparently, the optics may or may not have a slght bit of horizontal displacement. In my case the geometrically correct horizontal position had to be corrected by 2 1/4". Getting the vertical tilt correct to avoid any keystone took a while and a great deal of patience. Be prepared to spend some time to get it absolutely correct.

What is the latest info re 'light spillage'? I.e., are people that have the HD-81 seeing it at an objectionalbe level?

It is quite distracting when watching dark scenes. I do not notice it at all on brighter scenes, or if there is a light on in the room. I have made myself a temporary "lens hood", and this improves the situation significantly, but is by no means a 100% solution. I would love for Optoma to come out with some suggestions, an "official" lens hood, or some other fix.

Mike

millerwill,

Compred to the color saturation and brightness issues, light spillage is not significant. I am seeing it mostly on my ceiling.

jmorris,

No matter how closely you measure the desired location for the projector lens, you may wind up off center. The lateral kit from Chief for the RPAU allows up to 3” either way or 5 ½” one way. We were able to find a position (using the original mounting holes to the ceiling) where there is no keystone and the sides are absolutely parallel to the screen frame. It took us about 2 hours of fidlng but the satisfaction was enormous. Apparently, the optics may or may not have a slght bit of horizontal displacement. In my case the geometrically correct horizontal position had to be corrected by 2 1/4". Getting the vertical tilt correct to avoid any keystone took a while and a great deal of patience. Be prepared to spend some time to get it absolutely correct.

Makes me glad I have a Screen Innovations screen. It has one of the best mounting systems I have seen. The way the screen is mounted, I can easily move it left or right, without undoing a single screw. I can't move it up or down though.

It is quite distracting when watching dark scenes. I do not notice it at all on brighter scenes, or if there is a light on in the room. I have made myself a temporary "lens hood", and this improves the situation significantly, but is by no means a 100% solution. I would love for Optoma to come out with some suggestions, an "official" lens hood, or some other fix.

Mike

My Dwin TV3 had this problem with the Zeiss lens (light leaks on the ceiling though, not next to the screen). Dwin owners came up with a fix that involved cutting the lens cap with an X-Acto knife. Put a piece of paper over the lens, trace an outline of the rectangular light image, as well as the outer diameter of the lens itself. Use that template to cut out a rectangular hole in the lens cap. No more light spill.

It is quite distracting when watching dark scenes. I do not notice it at all on brighter scenes, or if there is a light on in the room. I have made myself a temporary "lens hood", and this improves the situation significantly, but is by no means a 100% solution. I would love for Optoma to come out with some suggestions, an "official" lens hood, or some other fix.

Mike

I have not noticed any light spill yet with the exception of the crescent that is 3 feet to the side of the image. I think Kevin responded a while back that the crescent was only apparent at full zoom. I personally have not tested it yet as it is rarely noticeable.

Joe

I suspect the answer to my question may well be "no", but just in case..

My previous projector was an NEC LT-100. It had one bug that actually worked to my advantage. If I connected a DVD player to it with an S-video connection, the LT-100 deinterlaced the signal. However if I used a composite connection, the LT-100 handled the 480i signal as if it were 240p 60 fps. In most cases that was not a good thing, since it lost half the vertical resolution. There are some 3D DVDs pressed for use with LCD shutter glasses. The odd and even fields contain the right and left eye images. The bug with the way the LT-100 handled composite video made it perfect for use with the shutter glasses. I even bought a 3D lens adapter for my camcorder that uses an LCD shutter to record left and right images on the odd and even fields.

I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to use these DVDs and the 3D videos I shot with the HD81. Does anyone know if there is a setting where I can tell the scaler NOT to deinterlace but to display the odd and even fields as successive images?

I'm not optomistic, but I thought it was worth asking.

Thanks

Joe

I'm wondering if Optoma has any plans to introduce a single box solution for those with another scaler or a preference for another scaler? It sounds like the HD81 is pretty well married to its scaler, but I for one wouldn't mind if all or part of that $1000-$2000 for the scaler was applied to more flexible optics - I bet Optoma would sell more pjs too for something with at a little bit more of a zoom range (pref. powered) and lens shift (at least vertical). What do you think?
the HD81, i believe, uses the Gennum VXP video processing chip, which is one of the best.

jmorris,

No matter how closely you measure the desired location for the projector lens, you may wind up off center. The lateral kit from Chief for the RPAU allows up to 3” either way or 5 ½” one way. We were able to find a position (using the original mounting holes to the ceiling) where there is no keystone and the sides are absolutely parallel to the screen frame. It took us about 2 hours of fidlng but the satisfaction was enormous. Apparently, the optics may or may not have a slght bit of horizontal displacement. In my case the geometrically correct horizontal position had to be corrected by 2 1/4". Getting the vertical tilt correct to avoid any keystone took a while and a great deal of patience. Be prepared to spend some time to get it absolutely correct.

Art, Does this lateral kit for the Chief RPAU add any vertical distance between the ceiling and the bottom of the pj? And what is your value for this distance? TIA

I'm very interested in purchasing the HD-80 after reading all the postings relating to it. I'm a novice who have just built a new home with a dedicated theater. The projector sounds like a great value, but I'm somewhat confused with many of the terms used in the forum, specifically offset angle (27deg). I think I understand now what offset angle means, and after reading all the threads, I believe this could work but I would like to verify that with the experts fist. My question is: will this projector work for my room (see specs below):

Room size: 14'W x 22'L x 10'H it has two built-up platforms at 12" and 24" high.
Projector location: a "projector box" was built and the front of the box is 15' from
the front wall, and its bottom is hanging 18" down from the
ceiling.
Screen size: I would like to have 110" 16:9 screen. The first row seating will be
at 15' and the 2nd rolw at 21'.

Optoma just told me that they have received some HD81's from the factory and they were
shipped with CO6 firmware, so all further shipments should come with CO6.(Until CO7 is
developed, of course.)

Jeff Regan

Optoma just told me that they have received some HD81's from the factory and they were
shipped with CO6 firmware, so all further shipments should come with CO6.(Until CO7 is
developed, of course.)

Jeff Regan

Jeff do you specifically what CO6 fixes?

Jeff do you specifically what CO6 fixes?

No, I asked the product manager this question and he said he is interested in finding
out what CO6 offers as much as I am. Before Wing left town, he told me that one
feature of CO6 was automatic aspect ratio sensing so that if a 2:35:1 scope movie
was detected, the processor would do an anamorphic 2:35:1 mode. As far as fixes,
he didn't say.

Jeff Regan

[QUOTE=millerwill]Art, Does this lateral kit for the Chief RPAU add any vertical distance between the ceiling and the bottom of the pj? And what is your value for this distance? TIA[/QUOTE

The lateral kit consists of a couple rails that fit between the part that attaches to the projector and the portion that gets screwed into the ceiling. It adds about an inch to the vertical drop In my case though, I removed the adjustment legs on the spyder portion of the mount that attaches to the projector since the mounting holes of the projector are flat. This gave me back about an inch so I wound up at the original vertical position. I had extended the spyders adjustment legs originally in order to provide the necessary clearing from the cealing for adequate cooling. It all came out perfectly with a bag full of screws left over. In retrospect, the RPAU mount is very flexible in its design and I recommend it highly.

As far as the software now being up to C06 with 07 on the drawing board, I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't time for some action by us early adopters to force Optoma to provide firmware that will permit us to use the advertised abilities of the projector. I am talking automatic lens iris adjustment, color anf hue adjustments that provide visible and significant changes to the images, brightness and gamma adjustments that allow us to see some detail in the black areas of the picture. While some material is overly saturated, like CSI Miami, other shows need significant color and hue adjustment. The HD81's controls do not come close to providing enough adjustability (range or gain) to accomplish this.

When will we see the firmware posted for those of us with C04? If it weren't such a pain in the ___, I would have returned the projector. I am stuck with it because of the amount of the investment. How about it Optoma, is it really that hard to post update firmware? Your actions in this matter have left me disappointed and angry. I am sure there are many others with early software who feel the same way.

No, I asked the product manager this question and he said he is interested in finding
out what CO6 offers as much as I am. Before Wing left town, he told me that one
feature of CO6 was automatic aspect ratio sensing so that if a 2:35:1 scope movie
was detected, the processor would do an anamorphic 2:35:1 mode. As far as fixes,
he didn't say.

Jeff Regan

Runco do an auto switching for 2.35:1 including moving an anamorphic lens in front of the pj I believe, so I wonder if we'll see this auto switching combined with a relay output sometime in the future (using volt free contacts so it can be used on any scope lens sled arrangement).

Gary.

I have not noticed any light spill yet with the exception of the crescent that is 3 feet to the side of the image. I think Kevin responded a while back that the crescent was only apparent at full zoom. I personally have not tested it yet as it is rarely noticeable.

Joe

There is actually more spill onto the ceiling, but it does not bother me since it mostly occurs behind my head :) The crescent to the left of the image is the one that I find distracting. I mounted my HD81 not far from the center of the throw range, so I am fairly close to mid-zoom. Maybe I have a worse case unit in this regard...

Mike

My Dwin TV3 had this problem with the Zeiss lens (light leaks on the ceiling though, not next to the screen). Dwin owners came up with a fix that involved cutting the lens cap with an X-Acto knife. Put a piece of paper over the lens, trace an outline of the rectangular light image, as well as the outer diameter of the lens itself. Use that template to cut out a rectangular hole in the lens cap. No more light spill.

Rob,
That's a great idea! I wonder if I could get a second lens cap so that I would still have an "unmutilated" one.
Mike

Gary,

That sounds like a great feature for Runco. I have ordered the Panamorph M380 transport
which could be triggered by a processor depending on firmware and output, theoretically.
I am excited to be able to build an anamorphic 2:35 1080P HT system for around $11K with
projector, outboard scaler, screen and anamorphic lens/transport. Of course, another way
to look at it is that my HD DVD player is costing me a lot of money, because without it, I wouldn't have felt the need to upgrade!

Jeff Regan

Still figuring out how to fit the HD-81 into my room. Would there be any problem if I replace the power cord with one ~35 ft long? Or I could just use a power extension cord; would this be OK?

My installer wanted to share this info, in case it may be of use to someone out there!


We were fortunate enough to catch the head tech and engineer on the day they were working on the tables to correctly post the throw distance for the HD81 projector and their anamorphic lens on their website. The website has not yet been updated. We took the calculations and applied it to our application. We sent back the drawings for verification from Optoma and they told us this is correct so we’ll share this in plain English.



The minimum throw distance is calculated by taking the width of the screen and multiplying it by 1.9, then the total multiplied by .75
The maximum throw distance is calculated by taking the width of the screen and multiplying it by 2.02, then the total multiplied by .75
The offset from center of lens to the top of screen is 36% above the screen height.
The lens is 5” deep and sits directly in front of the primary lens.


We are going to use a Stewart CineCurve Masking Screen being built as a 2.40:1 aspect to take advantage of certain HD DVD releases. The screen dimensions are 122 x 51 so our calculations were:



Minimum / 122 x 1.9 = 231.80 x .75 = 173.85” from face of screen to center of anamorphic lens
Maximum / 122 x 2.02 = 246.44 x .75 = 184.83” from face of screen to center of anamorphic lens


The Min/Max distance difference is only 10.98”. We set our throw distance at 180”


Offset / 51 x 36% = 18.36” above top of screen to center of anamorphic lens


Having the projector over 18” above the screen barely works with our 9’ ceiling and two tiers of seating. Optoma is supposedly coming out with a new model that has lens shift and addresses many of the issues with the current model.

Optoma is supposedly coming out with a new model that has lens shift and addresses many of the issues with the current model. [/I]

Any hint at the time scale for this?

Still figuring out how to fit the HD-81 into my room. Would there be any problem if I replace the power cord with one ~35 ft long? Or I could just use a power extension cord; would this be OK?
I'm sure the extension cord would work, but most building codes do not allow extension cords to be run through walls. If you can use some decorative conduit to cover the cable as it is run along the outside of the ceiling or wall, that should be OK (see this link (http://www.wiretracks.com/prod.html) ).

Otherwise, run Romex wire through the walls or ceiling and install an outlet in the ceiling or wall close to your projector.

All of these items can be purchased at Home Depot.

I'm sure the extension cord would work, but most building codes do not allow extension cords to be run through walls. If you can use some decorative conduit to cover the cable as it is run along the outside of the ceiling or wall, that should be OK (see this link (http://www.wiretracks.com/prod.html) ).

Otherwise, run Romex wire through the walls or ceiling and install an outlet in the ceiling or wall close to your projector.

All of these items can be purchased at Home Depot.

Thanks Kevin. I've figured out how I can run the power cord along the baseboard of a wall that will not require it goes go inside a wall or under the house. I was just wanting to confirm that having it 35 ft long would not be a problem.

<Optoma is supposedly coming out with a new model that has lens shift and addresses many of the issues with the current model.>

I wonder if Optoma will offer us early adopters a price break on a tradeup to a model that works as advertised?

Mr HiFi & millerwill.

It would certainly be nice if some kind of upgrade program were to be offered, i:e, trade in your HD81 and we'll give you the HD81 V2 for 50% of msrp, but don't hold your breath on that one. Optoma do not seem to have a very good marketing operation in place, so I don't think it would ever dawn on anyone there to look at ways of placating their existing customers.

Their has not been any mention of a time frame for a new version. The HD81 has, after all, only just come to market here and I don't see Optoma coming out with a new, improved version in the immediate future. Perhaps we'll get some wind of it at CES in January, which could mean a possible launch at the end of 2007, early 08, but that's pure speculation. Meanwhile, we need to concentrate on pushing Optoma to get this version sorted to our (early adopter's) satisfaction!

I had been watching SD DVDs on my Toshiba HD-DVD player and just left the output over HDMI at 1080i (e.g., the DVD player was doing the upconverting). For fun, I connected the component cables to the Optoma processor and set the DVD output to 480i (the Toshiba cannot output 480i over HDMI). I must say I was very impressed at how good upconverted DVDs look with the Optoma processor.

I played around with some of the controls and found they can further improve the image of an upconverted SD DVD. I would be careful about using the "auto calibrate" option since it really clipped high luminance levels (e.g., on the THX Optimizer setting for contrast, I couldn't see any of the boxes). I don't know if this is just with the Toshiba, but it really blew out contrast.

On the best DVDs (LOTR), I left noise reduction on "0" and enjoyed a very sharp and detailed picture -- better than I had even seen with SD DVDs. I even tried "edge enhancement" and my initial reaction is that there might be times when this would be of benefit (need to use some test signals on this). On less pristine DVDs, the noise reduction circuit really did a nice job of smoothing out the picture while leaving in plenty of detail.

You wouldn't mistake them for HD-DVDs, but they certainly look substantially better. This is one area where I think the Optoma is better than the Pearl.

[QUOTE=Kevin R. Anderson]... For fun, I connected the component cables to the Optoma processor and set the DVD output to 480i (the Toshiba cannot output 480i over HDMI). I must say I was very impressed at how good upconverted DVDs look with the Optoma processor. ...snip

On the best DVDs (LOTR), I left noise reduction on "0" and enjoyed a very sharp and detailed picture -- better than I had even seen with SD DVDs. [QUOTE]

Hmmm, That's what I have been TRYING to say :D The picture through the component inputs is amazing. Try HDTV throught he components. It is wonderful too!!

Joe

Anyone knows where I could see one of these in the Seattle area? Thanks!

Hmmm, That's what I have been TRYING to say :D The picture through the component inputs is amazing. Try HDTV throught he components. It is wonderful too!!
You did give me the idea Joe -- thanks! I am going to try HDTV through the Gennum processor. I'm not sure I will get to it this weekend, but I'm anxious to calibrate the component inputs. I will let you know how that goes.

You did give the idea Joe -- thanks! I am going to try HDTV through the Gennum processor. I'm not sure I will get to it this weekend, but I'm anxious to calibrate the component inputs. I will let you know how that goes.

I would be anxious to see what numbers you come up with.

Joe

I would be anxious to see what numbers you come up with.

Joe
Me too!

-Dave

I had been watching SD DVDs on my Toshiba HD-DVD player and just left the output over HDMI at 1080i (e.g., the DVD player was doing the upconverting). For fun, I connected the component cables to the Optoma processor and set the DVD output to 480i (the Toshiba cannot output 480i over HDMI). I must say I was very impressed at how good upconverted DVDs look with the Optoma processor.


Hi Kevin,

I just want to make sure I understand correctly. Did you say that there is a substantial improvement when you feed 480i to the Optoma processor through component instead of letting the Toshiba HD-DVD player do the scaling and send 1080i through HDMI? What sort of difference do you see? Is the difference in sharpness, color, or all-around?

I always thought scaling was relatively easy and deinterlacing was more difficult. Since in either case the Optoma processor is doing the deinterlacing, I'm wondering why there would be a big difference in the scaling, especially since there is now a digital to analog and matching analog to digital conversion involved.

Thanks!

Joe

Did you say that there is a substantial improvement when you feed 480i to the Optoma processor through component instead of letting the Toshiba HD-DVD player do the scaling and send 1080i through HDMI?
Yes, this is what I'm talking about. My experience with the Toshiba upconverting 1080i over HDMI to a Samsung H710 720p projector was excellent -- best upconverting I had seen.

I thought the same would apply with the HD81, so I just connected the Toshiba via HDMI @ 1080i to the VXP and thought that was good. There were times when I was disappointed with SD DVDs, but I assumed that was because I was watching so many HD-DVDs.

When I switched to component, I thought the picture was smoother but with more detail both as to picture and color resolution and better color saturation. I saw new details and picture information in LOTR, Moulin Rouge, 5th Element, Lost in Space and other DVDs I've watch a million times. Suddenly, I was very satisfied with the look of SD DVDs on the HD81.

I want to run some test patterns from AVIAPro to get a better idea of what is really going on. I agree that using 480i and component is counterintuitive, but my initial reaction is that this is the way to go for SD DVDs on the Toshiba and Optoma.

I want to run some test patterns from AVIAPro to get a better idea of what is really going on. I agree that using 480i and component is counterintuitive, but my initial reaction is that this is the way to go for SD DVDs on the Toshiba and Optoma.

It might be counter - intuitive, but I've preferred using component from an SDI modded RP56 and an iScan scaler with both my HT1000 and my H79. DVI ( and perhap HDMI ) is not the be all end all that we've been told IMO.

I am fortunate to own a Pioneer DV-09 DVD player. It was ahead of its time with advanced video and audio circuitry including 24 bit 96kHz deoders. I watched and listened to the John Fogerty SD concert this afternoon. It was quit impressive. With sharpness at 8, Color at 7, 0 IRE, Edge Enhaement at 3 and Color Vividness Enhacement at 1, it was moving. With amost 2 killowatts and a half of audio power feeding an 18" Velodyne, 4 15", 4,12", 6 10", 8 4", 8 superdome tweeters and a pair of ribbons, it was soul stirring. Even the Chief mount did not move. My sound level meter registered peaks of 124 dB. To those of you who love this kind of thing, try it. At least it got me to stop thinking about the shortcomings of the HD81.

It might be counter - intuitive, but I've preferred using component from an SDI modded RP56 and an iScan scaler with both my HT1000 and my H79. DVI ( and perhap HDMI ) is not the be all end all that we've been told IMO.

Craig, I don't think that is counter intuitive at all. I certainly think most people would recommend SDI from a RP56 to an iScan scaler over pretty much any other option for SD playback on that setup.

No, I asked the product manager this question and he said he is interested in finding
out what CO6 offers as much as I am. Before Wing left town, he told me that one
feature of CO6 was automatic aspect ratio sensing so that if a 2:35:1 scope movie
was detected, the processor would do an anamorphic 2:35:1 mode. As far as fixes,
he didn't say.

Jeff Regan

I just received an email from Optoma Tech Support with a (very) little info on CO5, CO6:
"The product managers here told me that CO4 to CO5 fixed issues regarding the hdmi color. CO5 to CO6 fixed some language errors in Japanese in the OSD".

I just got back from a 'day trip' down to Milpitas (home of Optoma) to see the HD-81, my first time. It wasn't set up particularly well, and was showing HD-DVD clips on a rather old Dalite screen. But even though the colors were not just right, it was a very sharp and impressive pic. Other observations:

1) The light spillage (out from upper right hand corner of the screen) only appears where the zoom is furthest out, i.e., to produce the smallerst image. When one zooms in even just a bit, it disappears. Since I (and proably most people) would have the pj at its furthest in position, to get the largest pic at a given position, this will not be an issue.

2) It is LOUD. Not sure I would want it within 6 ft of where I was sitting. It is making me think even more seriously about putting it on the ceiling in a closest that goes off the back of my room, and cutting a hole to the wall up near the ceiling.

3) It puts out a lot of hot air! and as Kevin said earlier, it comes out in the side of the pj opposite the lens side.

4) I played with tilting the pj, to lower the image on the screen, and like Kevin and others have noted, I could tilt it enought to bring the image down 12 or 15" and detect no keystoning by eye. I'm sure if the image had been flush with the edge of the screen, one could see a bit. But as the others have said, if your screen border can cover it, your eye won't detect it.

5) And finally, I played with viewing distance, and decided that I was most happy with something between 1.3 and 1.5 screen widths!

I just got back from a 'day trip' down to Milpitas (home of Optoma) to see the HD-81, my first time. It wasn't set up particularly well, and was showing HD-DVD clips on a rather old Dalite screen. But even though the colors were not just right, it was a very sharp and impressive pic.

Cool! Sounds like a fun trip! :) You would think Optoma would have the HD81 set up pefectly though.


Other observations:

1) The light spillage (out from upper right hand corner of the screen) only appears where the zoom is furthest out, i.e., to produce the smallerst image. When one zooms in even just a bit, it disappears. Since I (and proably most people) would have the pj at its furthest in position, to get the largest pic at a given position, this will not be an issue.

At first I found this confusing, but I see what you are saying. When you say most people will have the pj at it's "furthest" position, I think you mean "closest" position to the screen, due to its long throw. Correct? Using terms like "zoom in" and "zoom out" can be confusing, so your clarification re producing "the smallest image" is helpful.

2) It is LOUD. Not sure I would want it within 6 ft of where I was sitting. It is making me think even more seriously about putting it on the ceiling in a closest that goes off the back of my room, and cutting a hole to the wall up near the ceiling.

Very disappointing. I have heard this complaint from far too many people now. This is a big issue for me as the pj will be just behind peoples heads. My Dwin TV3 is somewhat loud, and I really want my next pj to be MUCH quieter.

3) It puts out a lot of hot air! and as Kevin said earlier, it comes out in the side of the pj opposite the lens side.

4) I played with tilting the pj, to lower the image on the screen, and like Kevin and others have noted, I would tilt it enought to bring the image down 12 or 15" and detect no keystoning by eye. I'm sure it the image had been flush with the edge of the screen, one could see a bit. But as the others have said, if your screen border can cover it, your eye won't detect it.

Glad to hear that. Looks like this will work for you then.

5) And finally, I played with viewing distance, and decided that I was most happy with something between 1.3 and 1.5 screen widths!

So you really do like it big and up close! :) With 1080p, you can certainly do that!

Any more impressions regarding the pq? How far off were the colors? Were you given an explanation for this?

Bill,

I'm glad you got to see the HD81 at Optoma, where I saw it a few weeks ago. The unit I saw had only three hours on the bulb and had out of the box settings for the most part--certainly color points. I would be interested in seeing an ISF'd HD81, and Kevin Anderson certainly calibrated his projector and didn't make it sound like it lost too much light, so that's good.

Optoma also had D-VHS playback of a Japanese HD demo tape, and some off air recording
from CBS HD of the Grammy's, a bikini contest-very 3 dimensional ;) and a concert. I was
looking for MPEG artifacts and didn't see any.

Did you see the HD81 with the Schneider anamorphic lens attached? I thought the 2:35
demo was wonderful.

Slackmack,

Regarding firmware versions, I'm pretty sure that CO6 has more going on than Japanese
OSD corrections--it was in beta test for awhile and I know of at least one other feature.
I'm glad that CO5 supposedly addresses some HDMI issues that MrHiFi has been experiencing with CO4.

My biggest concern currently is availability of new product, Optoma only received four units
this week from the factory, which tells me that they won't be in a position to fill back orders
by early November.

Jeff Regan

Cool! Sounds like a fun trip! :) You would think Optoma would have the HD81 set up pefectly though.




At first I found this confusing, but I see what you are saying. When you say most people will have the pj at it's "furthest" position, I think you mean "closest" position to the screen, due to its long throw. Correct? Using terms like "zoom in" and "zoom out" can be confusing, so your clarification re producing "the smallest image" is helpful.



Very disappointing. I have heard this complaint from far too many people now. This is a big issue for me as the pj will be just behind peoples heads. My Dwin TV3 is somewhat loud, and I really want my next pj to be MUCH quieter.



Glad to hear that. Looks like this will work for you then.



So you really do like it big and up close! :) With 1080p, you can certainly do that!

Any more impressions regarding the pq? How far off were the colors? Were you given an explanation for this?

Rob, I don't think they do a lot of demo's at Optoma and thus actually haven't put much effort into this, e.g., by having it well calibrated. My host said that this was one of the first pj's they got. I guess they're trying to sell all they get!

Yes, zoom in/out is often confusing. But the spillage only appeared at the extreme zoom that made the image the SMALLEST for the given location of the pj.

Re whether the 81 will work for me or not is still not settled in my mind. It would be quite a hassle to put it in the separate room, and then deal with the hot air exhaust, etc.; though it COULD be done. It would certainly be enormously simpler to put a Pearl on a stand right behind our seats and get a 120" Highpower for it.

In this vein, after leaving Optoma htwaits (well-respected AVS-er from Palo Alto) and I drove by Mag AV in Palo Alto to see the Pearl that they have showing on a 92" Firehawk. I have to say, it looked very, very nice! (though I still think I would get a HighPower to go with it). So I really do wonder if, for my first jump into FP, if I should not perhaps take the KISS approach (keep it simple, stupid). I had hoped that the BenQ might be a possible 'simple' implementation, but its throw is also turning out to be 'long'. Well, maybe the JVC will be out by spring, and its shortest throw is supposed to be 1.4!

Rob, I don't think they do a lot of demo's at Optoma and thus actually haven't put much effort into this, e.g., by having it well calibrated. My host said that this was one of the first pj's they got. I guess they're trying to sell all they get!

Yes, zoom in/out is often confusing. But the spillage only appeared at the extreme zoom that made the image the SMALLEST for the given location of the pj.

Re whether the 81 will work for me or not is still not settled in my mind. It would be quite a hassle to put it in the separate room, and then deal with the hot air exhaust, etc.; though it COULD be done. It would certainly be enormously simpler to put a Pearl on a stand right behind our seats and get a 120" Highpower for it.

In this vein, after leaving Optoma htwaits (well-respected AVS-er from Palo Alto) and I drove by Mag AV in Palo Alto to see the Pearl that they have showing on a 92" Firehawk. I have to say, it looked very, very nice! (though I still think I would get a HighPower to go with it). So I really do wonder if, for my first jump into FP, if I should not perhaps take the KISS approach (keep it simple, stupid). I had hoped that the BenQ might be a possible 'simple' implementation, but its throw is also turning out to be 'long'. Well, maybe the JVC will be out by spring, and its shortest throw is supposed to be 1.4!


Good points. Yes, I am familiar with htwaits (he's only one of the most helpful people in the rear projection forums)!

Isn't shopping for a pj fun?! Too much to consider!

I am interested in more specific comments regarding the Pearl, especially since you consider yourself a DLP fan, but that is OT here so I will look for your post in another area of the forum or take it to PM.

Thanks for the comments Bill.

Rob, yes, I confess, it is fun! And that's of course why it MIGHT be fun to get a 81, cut a hole in the wall, etc., all the hassle IS fun!

Another tidbit I picked up from my host at Optoma: I was complaining that the throw and offset had changed from what was announced in TzungILin's first posts in this thread (throw went from 1.78 to 1.85, and offset from 27% to 36%), and that the first values would have been fine, but that the final ones caused great difficulty. He said that after the CES of '06, when the HD-81 prototype was shown, they had to completely re-design the lens and optics in the process of bringing it to market, and in so doing the new parameters are what came out.

Am I really the only one who's thoroughly miffed about the mandatory serial cable connection? I got the HD81 in for testing earlier today, and realized I can't install it in any of my theaters because of the serial cable. I keep my scalers in the same rack with my players, which means they are often several meters away from the pj. A 10-meter HDMI with a 2-meter serial cable does not add up.

Here are my settings for component:

Contrast 4
Brightness 4-5
Color 10
Tint -1
Gamma 2
Image Mode TV
Iris Off
All picture enhancements off

Contrast RGB
R = 8
G = -3
B = -9

Brightness RGB
R = 0
G = -3
B = 1

A 10-meter HDMI with a 2-meter serial cable does not add up.
Agreed, but it is easy to cut the serial cable and wire in a CAT-5 cable. Do a search to find a post where I explain how to do this and wiring instructions. It is just a very basic 3-wire null modem cable.

Here are my settings for component:

Contrast 4
Brightness 4-5
Color 10
Tint -1
Gamma 2
Image Mode TV
Iris Off
All picture enhancements off

Contrast RGB
R = 8
G = -3
B = -9

Brightness RGB
R = 0
G = -3
B = 1

Thanks Kevin,

So, with these settings, what are your impressions?

Joe

Agreed, but it is easy to cut the serial cable and wire in a CAT-5 cable. Do a search to find a post where I explain how to do this and wiring instructions. It is just a very basic 3-wire null modem cable.

Im very confused on this.

Why would you need to wire in a CAT-5 cable into a serial cable? What is meant by a 2 meter serial cable vs a 10 meter HDMI? Does the serial cable come with the hd81?

I'm so confused. :confused:

Im very confused on this.

Why would you need to wire in a CAT-5 cable into a serial cable? What is meant by a 2 meter serial cable vs a 10 meter HDMI? Does the serial cable come with the hd81?

I'm so confused. :confused:

A short serial cable comes with the HD81. Not of much use unless the scaler is next to the projector.

If you look back at Kevin's Cat5 post it is just a way to use Cat5 wiring instead of an actual serial cable. Basically putting serial ends on a length of Cat5. No biggie. You can pull a serial cable instead if you wish.

Joe

Can those of you that have the HD-81 comment on how you are finding, or dealing with its noise? I saw it yesterday (at Optoma), and would really like to make it work for me--and the noise is the only 'issue' that I haven't resolved (the throw, the offset, light spillage are all workable for me).

But the noise has me worried. The simplest location for the pj would be ceiling mounted (on a 8.3' ceiling), thus about 4 ft above head level, and right at the back of the room, about 4 ft behind our heads. Any feeling amongst you about whether the pj's noise would be a problem in such a situation? I'm a bit worried that the 'V' formed by the ceiling and back wall will focus the noise right to the sitting area. ???

In thinking about the Pearl, though, it would be on a stand right behind our heads (for use with a HighPower); but it exhausts its hot air through the two front corners, and would thus be right at our heads. Arg!

A short serial cable comes with the HD81. Not of much use unless the scaler is next to the projector.

If you look back at Kevin's Cat5 post it is just a way to use Cat5 wiring instead of an actual serial cable. Basically putting serial ends on a length of Cat5. No biggie. You can pull a serial cable instead if you wish.

Joe

Thanks Joe.

Strange that they would give you a small serial cable. Do they expect you to mount the scaler on the ceiling? ;)

Strange that they would give you a small serial cable. Do they expect you to mount the scaler on the ceiling? ;)
That's what I was wondering about as well. I got the pj in for testing with a very short notice and didn't have time to read through this thread, and was therefore blissfully unaware of the mandatory serial cable. Had I known, I would have made sure I had a 10-meter cable ready for this weekend.

I was thinking about testing the projector in my red theater, but the cabling there is such that I would basically have to install the scaler inside a wall for the cables to reach. Hah.

Millerwill, I don't see the noise in Low mode a problem at all. It's slightly louder than Epson TW600 (PowerLite Pro Cinema 800 in the US), but I wasn't disturbed by it in the slightest. The pj is located about 4 feet behind and 5 feet above my head. Brite mode however hums like crazy. Luckily for me I will very likely never need the Brite mode, as Low pumps out more than enough lumens for my needs. I've got the Iris set to 12, in fact.

I thought Optoma should have included a 30' cable with the projector because a lot of people will be similarly disappointed. As it is, it is not too hard to extend the cable -- I just like CAT-5 because it is cheap, easy to find, and easy to pull, but any wire will do.

On the component calibration, I've spent the last two days only watching SD DVDs and really enjoying how much better they look. I calibrated a 720p projector this afternoon and it was sure fun to compare how much better SD DVDs look on a 1080p projector.

I agree that the noise is only an issue with the "High Altitude" setting or if the lamp is set to "Bright", both of which kick in the higher fan speed. Even then, I often run at high fan speed just to be cautious, and unless it is a quiet movie, I really don't notice it. Room acoustics can make in a big difference in how much you hear a projector fan.

If quiet is a big issue, the Pearl is decidedly better in that department, but then the image is not the same as the HD81.

Can those of you that have the HD-81 comment on how you are finding, or dealing with its noise? I saw it yesterday (at Optoma), and would really like to make it work for me--and the noise is the only 'issue' that I haven't resolved (the throw, the offset, light spillage are all workable for me).

But the noise has me worried. The simplest location for the pj would be ceiling mounted (on a 8.3' ceiling), thus about 4 ft above head level, and right at the back of the room, about 4 ft behind our heads. Any feeling amongst you about whether the pj's noise would be a problem in such a situation? I'm a bit worried that the 'V' formed by the ceiling and back wall will focus the noise right to the sitting area. ???

In thinking about the Pearl, though, it would be on a stand right behind our heads (for use with a HighPower); but it exhausts its hot air through the two front corners, and would thus be right at our heads. Arg!Compared to the Pearl, the HD81 was noticeably louder in my HT that has a 7 ft. ceiling. The sound quality of the fan noise was similar to the H79 I owned previously but maybe twice as loud. As Kevin just noted, the fan setting was at high altitude, (low lamp power mode), though. The Pearl doesn't put out that much heat; seated perhaps 15" in front of and below the Pearl I've not felt it. At that position fan noise, at the high setting but in low lamp power mode, sounds like a medium pitched hum and is not intrusive but clearly audible at quiet parts of a film.

Dan

Compared to the Pearl, the HD81 was noticeably louder in my HT that has a 7 ft. ceiling. The sound quality of the fan noise was similar to the H79 I owned previously but maybe twice as loud. As Kevin just noted, the fan setting was at high altitude, (low lamp power mode), though. The Pearl doesn't put out that much heat; seated perhaps 15" in front of and below the Pearl I've not felt it. At that position fan noise, at the high setting but in low lamp power mode, sounds like a medium pitched hum and is not intrusive but clearly audible at quiet parts of a film.

Dan

Dan (and Kevin), thanks for the replies re the noise of the HD-81; something I will have to weigh.

Re the Pearl, I was down MagAV in Emeryville today (along with the wife shopping) and stopped to see their Pearl setup. The colors were much better on this one than the one I saw yesterday in Palo Alto. But it doesn't have the dlp crispness, which I'm afraid I like. But yes, I did put my hand up to the exhaust, and you're right Dan, it doesn't pump out all that much hot air, not nearly as much as the HD-81 did in the one I saw at Optoma. But then the HD-81 wouldn't be right behind my head if I wind up getting it!

Anyone built a hushbox yet? I know MCBracer was planing to do this and so am I but it would be great to "borrow" someone's succesful design!

I would guess that the HD81 you saw was set at "Bright" mode so that the fan was running on high. I put a thermocouple up in the vent yesterday and noted approximately 140 degree exhaust temp (ambient room temp was 68). When I went to low fan setting, the temp went to around 155 degrees.

I live at an altitude of 4,600 feet, so I tend to use the "High Altitude" setting, but with you at sea level, I'm sure the normal setting (low fan) would be fine.

I thought I read in here that the gennum scaler included with the HD81 wouldn't do inverse telecine on 1080i feeds. I searched here for scaler, gennum, and telecine and couldn't find that. Is that the case?

Also, do you know if the firmware is user upgradeable, or must it be done by an authorised dealer?

Thanks

I thought I read in here that the gennum scaler included with the HD81 wouldn't do inverse telecine on 1080i feeds. I searched here for scaler, gennum, and telecine and couldn't find that. Is that the case?

Also, do you know if the firmware is user upgradeable, or must it be done by an authorised dealer?

Thanks

I will let someone who knows for sure answer this question, but I would be extremely surprised (and disappointed) if the included Gennum scaler doesn't do inverse telecine of 1080i material.

Read Greg Rogers review of the new Marantz. It uses the same Gennum vp, and he had good things to say about its nverse telecine abilities that would apply to the HD81.

The firmware can be upgraded with a serial cable and a computer. Whether they will make it available to users is another issue because if you don't do it right, you can kill the projector.

Anyone built a hushbox yet? I know MCBracer was planing to do this and so am I but it would be great to "borrow" someone's succesful design!

We are nearly complete with our design and when it is finished I will post it here or send you a pm. As we are building a dedicated room, we have the luxury of partially sinking the hush box in the ceiling (9 foot). We will have passive air passing through the hushbox with a remotely located exhaust fan. We won't be hearing a thing from that PJ!

We are nearly complete with our design and when it is finished I will post it here or send you a pm. As we are building a dedicated room, we have the luxury of partially sinking the hush box in the ceiling (9 foot). We will have passive air passing through the hushbox with a remotely located exhaust fan. We won't be hearing a thing from that PJ!


Please post your design and details

Thanks

Please post your design and details

Thanks

As soon as I have it, I will post it.

Thank you for your responses. I found my answer in the screenshot thread. It displays, but at 60hz, not 24 as i had hoped.

I doubt I have an optoma dealer anywhere near me, and I bought from AVS (fedex got it Oct. 3 and I STILL have not received it, but that is another story). So unless the unit has the 05 firmware, I'll probably not find the auto iris useful. After reading some of the comments here, maybe not even with it. There also sounds like a LOT of outstanding firmware issues to be fixed down the road, and I was hoping to be able to get some of those easily.

I found my answer in the screenshot thread.

Mind giving me the link to that thread? Can't find it, so your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! :)

-THTS

I know I've done my share of moaning in this thread, but for the past couple of weeks I've decided to lay off the tweaking and just enjoy. I'm currently using Kevin's posted HDMI settings from a few pages ago and I'm really happy with them overall.

Last night I turned on Sunday Night Football (on NBC - which is 1080i) and was literally FLOORED by the picture quality. I don't think I've watched a 1080i football game on the HD81 yet (only Fox and ESPN so far, which are both 720p) but this thing just looked incredible! It reminded me of the first time I saw a live sporting event in HD about 6 years ago. It takes a lot to wow me anymore in the video front, but this did just that. I ended up watching the entire game with a grin on my face.

Yes, there are plenty of quirks with the HD81; most of them (other than the auto-iris) I expect to be solved over time with firmware upgrades. Last night reminded me just how incredible this projector really is and how glad I am to have bought one. It also emphasizes that with a projector of this caliber, the quality of the source material becomes more and more important.

-Dave

I know I've done my share of moaning in this thread, but for the past couple of weeks I've decided to lay off the tweaking and just enjoy. I'm currently using Kevin's posted HDMI settings from a few pages ago and I'm really happy with them overall.

Last night I turned on Sunday Night Football (on NBC - which is 1080i) and was literally FLOORED by the picture quality. I don't think I've watched a 1080i football game on the HD81 yet (only Fox and ESPN so far, which are both 720p) but this thing just looked incredible! It reminded me of the first time I saw a live sporting event in HD about 6 years ago. It takes a lot to wow me anymore in the video front, but this did just that. I ended up watching the entire game with a grin on my face.

Yes, there are plenty of quirks with the HD81; most of them (other than the auto-iris) I expect to be solved over time with firmware upgrades. Last night reminded me just how incredible this projector really is and how glad I am to have bought one. It also emphasizes that with a projector of this caliber, the quality of the source material becomes more and more important.

-Dave

I agree. Isn't 1080i football amazing?!?!?!?

You should try CSI:Miami tonight also. It too is in 1080i but what they do to the color schemes on that show and how the HD81 projects them will blow your mind.

Joe

I ended up watching the entire game with a grin on my face.




I had a grin on my face while watching it too. But that grin didn't start until the Cowboys scored their first touchdown. In fact, it lasted during the 35 unanswered points that they scored! :p

GO RO MO! :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8325514&highlight=telecine#post8325514
discussion starts around post 105.
I searched for the word telicine.

I haven't been following this thread for awhile because the offset won't work for me, unless I do the unthinkable - use the digital keystone.

I searched the thread and AFAI can tell, everyone shrinks at the thought, but no one has actually tried it.

Would someone w/the HD81 see how much it actually degrades the picture w/HD?

Since it's already scaling anyway, I'd think the effect minimal on regular DVD and lower res sources.

Thanks

When I get my HD81, I plan to watch football as well as movies. I was wondering if anyone knew of a PIP device that might work with the HD81 allowing me to watch 2 games at once.

millerwill,

I will take a stab at the noise issue again. If you check my previous comments, you will note that my dB readings were in the thirties and were punctuated my a midrange hum or whine. That hum or whine is caused by the spinning of the wheel. It is extremely annoying when the projector is not in "brite mode". If you turn off the bulb, it goes away, even when the fan is on cooling the bulb down. It is specially annoying when one is not in brite mode because then there is no extreme turbulunce from the high fan speed. My installation is just like yours. I'm sitting in a recliner with my head 4-5 ft. below and 2 ft in front of the projector. At 34 dB it is loud. At low brightness it is annoying. I feel trapped by something I can not return. I would never have bought this if I had known how noisy it is. I am very angry at those who recommended it and lured us into buying it. This would be an OK projector for a board room. It is way too loud for watching in a home environment. If you were to place a hush box around it, yu would probably burn down your house. This baby breathes fire. I am hoping for reduced proopane consumption this year. I know it puts off as much heat as the blower on my fireplace.

No one has mentioned the mosquito noise and the red and blue fringing around objects. I am new to DLP projectors but if I had conveged a CRT this poorly, I would have been embarrassed. I am also getting some ringing in the signal. Almost like ghosting but it is in the imaging. I am seeing three separate very low level images to the right of the original. Also, regardless of what I do with sharpness or edge enhancement, there is a secondary liner around the edge of heavily contrasted objects.

Anyway, that is where I am after 130 hours.

Noah,

I tried the keystone just after I received it. Frankly, I could not see any difference when I applied 3 units of keystone. Use it. That seems to work.

millerwill,

I will take a stab at the noise issue again. If you check my previous comments, you will note that my dB readings were in the thirties and were punctuated my a midrange hum or whine. That hum or whine is caused by the spinning of the wheel. It is extremely annoying when the projector is not in "brite mode". If you turn off the bulb, it goes away, even when the fan is on cooling the bulb down. It is specially annoying when one is not in brite mode because then there is no extreme turbulunce from the high fan speed. My installation is just like yours. I'm sitting in a recliner with my head 4-5 ft. below and 2 ft in front of the projector. At 34 dB it is loud. At low brightness it is annoying. I feel trapped by something I can not return. I would never have bought this if I had known how noisy it is. I am very angry at those who recommended it and lured us into buying it. This would be an OK projector for a board room. It is way too loud for watching in a home environment. If you were to place a hush box around it, yu would probably burn down your house. This baby breathes fire. I am hoping for reduced proopane consumption this year. I know it puts off as much heat as the blower on my fireplace.

No one has mentioned the mosquito noise and the red and blue fringing around objects. I am new to DLP projectors but if I had conveged a CRT this poorly, I would have been embarrassed. I am also getting some ringing in the signal. Almost like ghosting but it is in the imaging. I am seeing three separate very low level images to the right of the original. Also, regardless of what I do with sharpness or edge enhancement, there is a secondary liner around the edge of heavily contrasted objects.

Anyway, that is where I am after 130 hours.

Art, Thanks for a very straight up reply! (I find these the most useful.)

Art:

Have you thought about listing your HD81 on Videogon? With the current shortage, you may be able to get your money out of it. Also, try buying from AVS Forum next time since they are very good about working with you if you are unhappy with a purchase.

I'm sorry if my enthusiasm for this projector influenced your purchase decision. All I can say is that my experience has been very different than yours.

Keystone artifacts would be most visible when displaying a 1080 signal in native resolution. If you put up a multiburst pattern of 1 pixel width, you will see the lines converge at the top and create an artifact. I'm out of town for the next few days, but when I get back, I will try to take some photos showing the effect of keystone with test patterns and the effect with real images. My guess is that you would notice it from time to time, but almost no one else would.

Kevin,

I am certainly not angry with you. You have been more than helpful. I purchased from a reputable dealer in Minnesota, Kearney Bros. They have a return policy however, i have made a considerable investment towards the installation of the projector that increases the cost considerably. When one adds up the cabling, the adapters, the mounts and the shipping for these, it adds quite a lot. I also paid two men to come and install the unit originally. No, taking it down at this point would be unforgiveable. I've spent many years playing with this stuff as a hobby and as a part time business. As I grow older, I expect things to work as advertised with minimal hastle. I am disappointed that has not been the case here.

Regarding my comments... I have received quite a number of private messages from forum members thankful for the information I have provided. The projector provides a beautiful picture, as crisp and with as much fine detail as I have ever seen. This functionality does come at a price. We are asked to tolerate louder than average and more annoying noise than I have ever been exposed to in my 40 years of active involvement in setting up TV's. It does have some artifacts which may unique to the medium, I don't know. I will keep it. I hope that I can load the firmware when it becomes available.

Perhaps you can answer a question for me? Do they rreally need both pieces at Optoma to update the firmware? The product engineer I spoke to suggested returning just the VXD but he may have been mistaken. I might consider sending the VXD back but feel uncomfortable about repacking and shipping the projector back.

BTW, my projector seems to be drifting towards blue green. Perhaps that is what happens as the bulbs age. Not having any prior experience with these devices that are lit with high power lamps, like you, I am learning.
Mercury based lamps produce more green and blue than red compared with D65. With use they shift further towards green and blue.

Glenn

Hi Art: I'm just sorry you are not enjoying this projector the way some of us are, but certainly your observations are beneficial to potential buyers.

I agree that there is fan noise with this projector, but I have found it to be no worse, and in some cases better, than other projectors I've dealt with, including the BenQ PE7700, the Samsung H710AE, the Optoma H79, the Yamaha, Infocus, and any 3-CRT front projector.

The only projector I have seen that I would call really quiet is the Sony Pearl.

Projectors need to make lots of light -- light makes heat -- heat dissapation requires fans -- and fans make noise. Hopefully, LED bulbs will mitigate this unfortunate fact of front projectors.

I would think that Optoma only needs the VXD to upgrade the firmware.

No one has mentioned the mosquito noise and the red and blue fringing around objects. I am new to DLP projectors but if I had conveged a CRT this poorly, I would have been embarrassed. I am also getting some ringing in the signal. Almost like ghosting but it is in the imaging. I am seeing three separate very low level images to the right of the original. Also, regardless of what I do with sharpness or edge enhancement, there is a secondary liner around the edge of heavily contrasted objects.

Anyway, that is where I am after 130 hours.
Something is very wrong with your unit or other equipment. The artifacts that you list are not normal for HT quality PJs regardless of the technology. A single chip DLP can't have convergence problems. I have never seen image ringing as you describe in any DLP. As for mosquito noise, I am not sure what you are seeing. If you are describing the dithering in very dark greys that can only be seen if you stand a foot or two from the screen, that is normal for DLPs. If you can see it from a normal sitting distance, it is something else.

Glenn

I will take a stab at the noise issue again. If you check my previous comments, you will note that my dB readings were in the thirties and were punctuated my a midrange hum or whine. That hum or whine is caused by the spinning of the wheel. It is extremely annoying when the projector is not in "brite mode". If you turn off the bulb, it goes away, even when the fan is on cooling the bulb down. It is specially annoying when one is not in brite mode because then there is no extreme turbulunce from the high fan speed. My installation is just like yours. I'm sitting in a recliner with my head 4-5 ft. below and 2 ft in front of the projector. At 34 dB it is loud. At low brightness it is annoying. I feel trapped by something I can not return. I would never have bought this if I had known how noisy it is. I am very angry at those who recommended it and lured us into buying it. This would be an OK projector for a board room. It is way too loud for watching in a home environment. If you were to place a hush box around it, yu would probably burn down your house. This baby breathes fire. I am hoping for reduced proopane consumption this year. I know it puts off as much heat as the blower on my fireplace.

No one has mentioned the mosquito noise and the red and blue fringing around objects. I am new to DLP projectors but if I had conveged a CRT this poorly, I would have been embarrassed. I am also getting some ringing in the signal. Almost like ghosting but it is in the imaging. I am seeing three separate very low level images to the right of the original. Also, regardless of what I do with sharpness or edge enhancement, there is a secondary liner around the edge of heavily contrasted objects.

Anyway, that is where I am after 130 hours.

Other than the noise issue the HD81 I saw at Toms I thought had one of the best pictures I've seen so far from a digital projector. Sound like you have more problems with yours than other people are - maybe there is something wrong with your machine or your source or cabling or???

And as far as the noise issue - I consider my H79 and my HT1000 to be too noisy in low lamp mode. I'll never build a theater without some sort of ventilated soffit / cabinet / hush box. They're easy enough to do.

My experience is very different as well.

The HD81 is far quieter than earlier generations of DLP projectors. I measured my previous projector (NEC LT100) at 55dB. Now, that was loud! I am used to that projector, so I find the HD81 to be very quiet. I cannot hear it at all over the soundtrack of a movie. I could always hear the LT100 when it was on.

I've never seen any trace of color fringing or misconvergence on the HD81. Misconvergence can be a problem with 3 chip projectors like the Ruby and Pearl, but it shouldn't be a problem with any single chip projector since there is nothing to converge.

Joe

Wow, what a gambit of experiences! I guess this re-enforces the truism that there is no perfect pj, and certainly not at an 'affordable' price. The upcoming BenQ will presumably have that great crisp dlp look, will be extremely quiet, and (hopefully) have a throw not too long---BUT it most likely won't have the lumens of the HD81!

I haven't been following this thread for awhile because the offset won't work for me, unless I do the unthinkable - use the digital keystone.

I searched the thread and AFAI can tell, everyone shrinks at the thought, but no one has actually tried it.

Would someone w/the HD81 see how much it actually degrades the picture w/HD?

Since it's already scaling anyway, I'd think the effect minimal on regular DVD and lower res sources.

Thanks

Hey Noah,

Not doing the mirrors anymore?

We are finding that the offset is not as critical as once thought. I believe that joe Linn has an offset that is 1/3 of the recommendation, and yes he sees a keystoning. but hides it in his screen trim and does not notice any degradation in image quality.

I have mine in a temporary setup with a 8' wide screen and I have the lens about 6 inches into the image itself. About 110% less than the recommended offset. I have about a 2 inch keystone and notice no artifacts in the image itself.

So unless your dimensions are really drastic I don't think you would be disappointed.

Joe

Yes, with 1/3 the recommended offset, the top of my 9 foot wide screen is about 1 inch wider on each side than the bottom. It is completely hidden by the black border around my screen.

Joe

Wow, what a gambit of experiences! I guess this re-enforces the truism that there is no perfect pj, and certainly not at an 'affordable' price. The upcoming BenQ will presumably have that great crisp dlp look, will be extremely quiet, and (hopefully) have a throw not too long---BUT it most likely won't have the lumens of the HD81!

There are " perfect " projectors, but they are 25K and up .......*








* if I ever can spend that kind of money on a projector, I won't admit to any flaws - it will be perfect!!

There are " perfect " projectors, but they are 25K and up .......*








* if I ever can spend that kind of money on a projector, I won't admit to any flaws - it will be perfect!!

Note that I did qualify my statement with 'at an affordable price'. Of course 'affordable' depends on who's affording it, but you get the gist (< $7K, say).

The upcoming BenQ will presumably have that great crisp dlp look, will be extremely quiet, and (hopefully) have a throw not too long---BUT it most likely won't have the lumens of the HD81!

Or the Pearl for that matter.

Kevin,

My last 2 CRT projectors, DWIN HD500 and 700 were dead silent. The 700 even had a little muffin fan in the power supply. Thanks for the opinion on which piece needs to go back. The mosquito noise on my 96" wide screen is quite visible. The color edge thing does bother me. It is red to the left and blue to the right. Only visible on highly contrasted images. Perhaps it is true for DLP's and is the price you have to pay for the sharpness from a DLP. I hope that when I get C05 in some of my saturation issues will be resolved. i am using 3 HDMI inputs, 2 YPrPb and 1 S input.

Optoma has a couple of beta testers for the upcoming C07 firmware. In a week I hear they will start. Things go smooth then the public can get the ability to input there own firmwares.

I know I've done my share of moaning in this thread, but for the past couple of weeks I've decided to lay off the tweaking and just enjoy. I'm currently using Kevin's posted HDMI settings from a few pages ago and I'm really happy with them overall.

Last night I turned on Sunday Night Football (on NBC - which is 1080i) and was literally FLOORED by the picture quality. I don't think I've watched a 1080i football game on the HD81 yet (only Fox and ESPN so far, which are both 720p) but this thing just looked incredible! It reminded me of the first time I saw a live sporting event in HD about 6 years ago. It takes a lot to wow me anymore in the video front, but this did just that. I ended up watching the entire game with a grin on my face.

Yes, there are plenty of quirks with the HD81; most of them (other than the auto-iris) I expect to be solved over time with firmware upgrades. Last night reminded me just how incredible this projector really is and how glad I am to have bought one. It also emphasizes that with a projector of this caliber, the quality of the source material becomes more and more important.

-Dave

I agree, it looked great. I had sat down on Saturday to do some tweaking and try out Kevin's settings, but Fifth Element looked too good (in 1080i on TNT HD), as did Matrix Reloaded, and I just sat there and watched instead :)

Mike

Mike and Dave, It seems you guys don't have any problem with the pj noise. Do you do anything special, or is it really not so bad?

guitarman:

Thank you. That is the kind of news I was hoping to hear.

Art, Kevin, Joe(s),

Thanks for the good news on the viability of using keystone, or living with it.

The pj porthole in my back wall is 84" high, and the top of my 65x116 screen (with 2" black borders) is 94" high.

Anyone know how much keystoning that would give? The screen is retractable, so tilting isn't feasible.

Uh oh - according to the pj calculator at pjcentral the smallest image width I can get from 23' is 125", meaning the max throw ratio is 2.2:1. Is that correct?

"...there are plenty of quirks with the HD81; most of them (other than the auto-iris) I expect to be solved over time with firmware upgrades."

Does that mean the DI is fixed, or it's hopeless?

"Not doing the mirrors anymore?"

Nope, unforseen installation complications (required seismic reinforcements). Know anyone who wants mirrors and/or a 110" dnp Alpha? :)

Optoma has a couple of beta testers for the upcoming C07 firmware. In a week I hear they will start. Things go smooth then the public can get the ability to input there own firmwares.
Any idea if the ISF Day/Night modes will be included in this firmware?

Optoma has a couple of beta testers for the upcoming C07 firmware. In a week I hear they will start. Things go smooth then the public can get the ability to input there own firmwares.

Guitarman,

You Are saying that the end users can not download there own firmware with any of the prior firmware like C04-C05-C06?

Do all these people have to send the units in to be updated?

This doesn't sound like something someone who just spent close to 7K would want to hear!


Tony G.

Mike and Dave, It seems you guys don't have any problem with the pj noise. Do you do anything special, or is it really not so bad?
I certainly hear the fan, but it doesn't bother me. The projector is about 4 feet behind me and three feet above my head in my primary seating position. Once I start watching something I completely tune out the noise.

The auto-iris, on the other hand, is very objectionable. Way too loud.


-Dave

I certainly hear the fan, but it doesn't bother me. The projector is about 4 feet behind me and three feet above my head in my primary seating position. Once I start watching something I completely tune out the noise.

The auto-iris, on the other hand, is very objectionable. Way too loud.


-Dave

I totally agree. With the projector in its temporary position it is only 2 feet behind my ear. Once you get into the movie it is not noticable at all.

I am not using the iris but I am on C04. Maybe a newer firmware version will help.

Joe

Guitarman,

You Are saying that the end users can not download there own firmware with any of the prior firmware like C04-C05-C06?

Do all these people have to send the units in to be updated?

This doesn't sound like something someone who just spent close to 7K would want to hear!


Tony G.

No. He is saying just the opposite. If the beta testing goes well then we WILL be able to update our own firmware.

Joe

I had a Sony VPH-D50 (3 CRT front projector). That sucker had 15 fans and sounded like a jet engine taking off!!!

"...there are plenty of quirks with the HD81; most of them (other than the auto-iris) I expect to be solved over time with firmware upgrades."

Does that mean the DI is fixed, or it's hopeless?
In my opinion the DI is hopeless. I think they had an adjustable iris design and later decided to try to add the auto-iris functionality. It seems to have 2 basic problems: It is very slow (you see the changes in the middle of a scene) and it is very loud.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The adjustable iris is awesome and was how I always intended to use it. I keep my iris around 10 for watching movies in the dark; if the kids are playing XBox with some lights on or I'm watching football in less than total darkness I'll switch the iris off which brightens things up considerably. All of this is in Econo mode, by the way. If I switched to Brite mode I'd probably scorch my retinas! :)

-Dave

I apologize for an off-topic question, so maybe one of you can just point me to the right place. But as I get more into the FP thing, I would like to be able to do SOME of all the calibrations, gray scale settings, etc., myself. So what is the basic gear that I would need (I have, of course, the AVIA and DVE dvd's, a RS spl meter, and even a light meter, but that's it)? Is it possible to get anything that is really useful for </~ $1K, or do you really have to go way beyond this to get anything worthwhile? (This is strictly for my personal tweaking; I'm not going into the ISF business!)

Exactly how is the firmware updated. Do you plug a laptop into the projector or scaler? Do you down load it to the computer first? I haven't yet ordered my HD81 so haven't seen first hand how it is done. Couldn't find anything in the manual either.
Thanks.

Basically, you connect a serial cable from a Windows computer to the processor, run a program, and do the upgrade.

Thanks Kevin. Hmmm I'm using a Mac laptop. I may need to find a PC I can use.....

dknight and jmorris,

For me the blowing fan noise is less objectionable than the higher, single note tone that seems to be produced by the spinning of the color wheel. Have you all heard this? Maybe it is due to a bad bearing in mine. When you turn the bulb off and the fan stays on, you can hear the monotoned sound go away. If the projector is off brite mode, it becomes the primary sound. Mine is mounted on the ceiling. When it was on the floor temporarily, I never heard that sound at all.

dknight and jmorris,

For me the blowing fan noise is less objectionable than the higher, single note tone that seems to be produced by the spinning of the color wheel. Have you all heard this? Maybe it is due to a bad bearing in mine. When you turn the bulb off and the fan stays on, you can hear the monotoned sound go away. If the projector is off brite mode, it becomes the primary sound. Mine is mounted on the ceiling. When it was on the floor temporarily, I never heard that sound at all.

I do not have that sound. But my projector is still sitting upright. I have not put it upside down yet.

Joe

Kevin, thanks for posting your settings for HDMI and YPbPr. They look great! You have provided a valuable service to HDMI owners. On the settings for HDMI, I didn't see a setting for color (saturation). What color setting do you use for HDMI?

Thanks again!

Joe

Joe,

I don't understand how one person's choice of settings can be used by another person. Each screen has different reflection characteristics and every room has different amounts of reflected light impacting on the screen. Even if these are identical, I dobt whether two production runs of the projector wind up with similar baseline adjustments. CRT's for example are often set by eye to a known reference that is interpreted by humans. I wonder how OPTOMA sets up their sets as they come off the line if they do at all. But even after you get past these sources of variability, what about the differences between the various sources, i.e. equipment and program material. My God, I change my color and hue every time a new show starts. Anyway, please do not interpret this as some kind of put down of Kevin's efforts, it most certainly is not. But to believe that we will have excellent performance by copying someone else's settings is naive and misguided. If you want to do it right, you need a Progressive Labs Colorimeter or similar to set the gray scale to 6500 deg Kelvin or wherever you want it (I like it a bit warmer around 5500 deg Kelvin). Once you do that you need to use and AVIA or Video Essentials disk to establish baseline color and hue settings. Brightness and Contrast must also be set for the lighting conditions you enjoy most often. BTW, that is why you use the ISF day and night modes. Kevin, How do you get in to set those? At that point you can sit and enjoy your set and say I've got it set as well as possible. It takes me about 6 hours to do tis correctly on a CRT set. I am hoping it will go faster here. When I get C07 instaled, I intend to set it up the ay I have described. It will be interesting to compare our individual settings after adjustment of the aforementioned variables for baseline levels of performance.

There is a BIG difference between CRT and digital projectors, especially DLP.

I have had two different CRT projectors (Advent & Zenith) and now two different DLP projectors (NEC and Optoma). Setup is radically different. CRT projectors are analog devices. No two units off the line will be the same. I am very familiar with what is involved with setting one up: adjusting geometry, (pincushion etc), convergence, matching the gain for the three CRTs.

DLP is unique in that it is strictly digital. Even LCD and LCoS need to convert a digital signal into varying degrees of transmission or reflectivity. DLP achieves different levels of brightness by varying exactly how long each mirror is "on." All units rolling off the line are going to leave the mirror "on" for exactly the same length of time when presented with the same value. With the HD81, there is only one DLP chip, so there is nothing to converge. When Kevin adjusts color points and color temperature across the gray scale, those same settings will produce the same result on any two units.

Certainly screen size and type, ambient light, and room characteristics will all affect the picture. The differences will mostly involve brightness and contrast settings. But Kevin's settings will provide a very good starting point for people - especially the red, blue, and green contrast and brightness settings which should get the color points correct and get the color temperature for gray correct across the whole gray scale.

Manufacturers tend to have default settings that will make their device eye-catching in the store. Kevin's settings are for accuracy.

I can certainly tweak with Avia and Video Essentials, but Kevin's settings provide a great starting point.

Joe

I just got off with Optoma technical support. They do not know at this time when the ISF Day / ISF Night options will be available - and they apologized because the manual does say these should be working on product release.

I just got off with Optoma technical support. They do not know at this time when the ISF Day / ISF Night options will be available - and they apologized because the manual does say these should be working on product release.

I thought they were locked so that only an ISF technician can set them?

Joe

The ISF Day/Night options are nothing more than setting memories that are locked so the client cannot alter them.

Art: You are right that posting my settings are not the same as a personal calibration, but my experience is that "shared settings" get you a little closer than factory settings.

Generally, HDMI does not give you color control, and adjusting that setting does not seem to change anything (at least on my unit), so I just leave it at 10. I usually don't post color and tint settings because they are easy to set using DVE and as Art notes, you adjust them for each source and from DVD to DVD.

Mike and Dave, It seems you guys don't have any problem with the pj noise. Do you do anything special, or is it really not so bad?


millerwill,
Sorry for the late response, I have been busy with the day job :( I agree with Joe and Dave. The PJ is mounted about 4 ft above and 3 ft behind my head. I certainly hear it when I have the volume at lower settings, but it is not an annoying sound and easy to tune out. I honestly do not notice it most of the time. We watched "Over the Hedge" as a family the other evening. The volume was at more "normal" listening levels, and I could not hear the projector at all except for scenes with almost no sound.

Art,
It definitely sounds like you have something up with your HD81. I hear the color wheel when it first spins up, but not after that. All I hear is the fan. When I turn the PJ off, the noise from it does not change until the fan goes off. I had a color wheel go bad in my Samsung RPTV, and it was indeed an annoying tone (unbearable by the end; a loud, high pitched screeching sound). Fortunately it was under warranty...

Mike

When Kevin adjusts color points and color temperature across the gray scale, those same settings will produce the same result on any two units Actually, there is one source of variability in the DLP PJ that you havn't accounted for yet. The bulbs vary in color balance from one to the other. The differences can be significant Another source of deviation is differences between various sources, especially analogue sources. Even digital sources sometimes are not engineered to respond in the correct manner. There can be color decoding problems such as using the wrong decoding matrix, or incorrect brightness/contrast levels, or using PC vs Video levels.

Glenn

Actually, there is one source of variability in the DLP PJ that you havn't accounted for yet. The bulbs vary in color balance from one to the other.

The reason I didn't mention the bulbs was because since the projectors are so new, we all probably within 100 hours of each other for bulb life so the aging characteristics should be similar. I don't expect many people will have an ISF technician recalibrate their DLP projectors after every couple hundred hours of bulb life, yet the characteristics of the bulb change as it ages. The diffrences in bulbs is going to be very minor compared with the differences in CRTs in a 3 tube CRT front projector.

Still, as I said before, Kevin's figures provide a very good starting point.

My main point was that setup for a DLP projector is completely different from setup for a three tube front projector. A purely digital device like DLP doesn't have the same need for calibration as an analog device like a three tube CRT. A CRT front projector requires a huge amount of calibration that is not required for a DLP. You need to tune your violin, but you don't need to recalibrate your calculator. Two plus two will always add up to four.

Joe

The ISF Day/Night options are nothing more than setting memories that are locked so the client cannot alter them.

I completely misread the manual which says "For care-free operation, HD81 comes with ISF Modes. The HD81 is designed to offer exceptional performance “out of box”; but since lighting and other factors can affect the performance of yourdisplay device, Optoma offers ISF calibration capability."

Specifically my mind ignored the last word 'capability' and assumed they were preset from the factory.

Optoma really needs to get the tech support up to snuff since I was informed by the tech that they would indeed be adding this to an upcoming firmware update.

Thanks Kevin for the accurate response.

Hi,

Since i´ve received finally my HD81 now i have found out following issues on my unit:

- won´t accept external 1080p@50Hz Signals
- Cannot adjust saturation or tint via the HDMI Inputs
- Automatik iris funktion is crap.

Are there any other know issues with the HD81 yet ? - Sorry but the thread is meanywhile over 80 pages long and it would be great if someone could point out the known issues with the acutal software.

Thanks,
Take care
Thomas

I completely misread the manual which says "For care-free operation, HD81 comes with ISF Modes. The HD81 is designed to offer exceptional performance “out of box”; but since lighting and other factors can affect the performance of yourdisplay device, Optoma offers ISF calibration capability."

Specifically my mind ignored the last word 'capability' and assumed they were preset from the factory.

Optoma really needs to get the tech support up to snuff since I was informed by the tech that they would indeed be adding this to an upcoming firmware update.

Thanks Kevin for the accurate response.

That's right, ISF modes are for an ISF to call in, get the key and setup two grayscales tunings for you. After a bulb gets some hours on it grayscale tunings hold up well for the remainder of the bulb life. A projector will also beneifit even if it's a brand new bulb, specially if the OTB tuning is far out.

I've always advised that using shared settings is not a substitute for an ISF calibration. If I come to your house to do an ISF calibration, you get four hours of my time that is spent doing everything I can to make your projector look as good as possible. I run numerous test patterns; I check the settings on your DVD player and STB; if there is a difference between the gray scale on your DVD player and the gray scale from the Accupel, I calibrate accordingly (e.g., I calibrate the system and not just the projector); I calibrate for the different inputs and resolutions; I use offset files to compensate for the brand and type of screen and all the while I explain (if you are interested), what I'm doing and what I'm looking for. In short, shared settings ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE for an ISF calibration.

However, some of the settings do apply across the board. For example, turn down sharpness to "0" and turn off edge enhancement to avoid edge artifacts. Use DVI-PC for the pedestal level (at least on this projector with firmware C05). When I provide shared settings, I try to include all relevant parameters and I usually don't provide settings for tint and color since those can be set by the user, along with brightness and contrast if you have nothing more than a DVD with the THX Optimizer.

Again, when using shared settings, caveat emptor; your mileage may vary; kids, don't try this at home; should only be attempted by a professional; provided for fun and experimentation only, etc.

I agree..."Kevin's settings provide a great starting point."

OK. I can't see where I could go wrong with the HD81 for my new basement HT. My room is 14.5' x 26' & completely dark. I would need to run my HDMI cable about 20' which might be a concern.
I've been reading many of your posts & think I've learned what I need to know, but, please feel free to add or correct these comments...

1) HD81 is a great HD projector that will require ISF calibration for best picture. Out of box is OK but not great.
2) The projector, mounted 1.5' above or below the screen, will not require keystone adjustments...which is good because it doesn't have keystone adjustments anyway.
3) The Auto Iris isn't so good, but, newer HD81s have updated software that corrects this problem. Previous owners can download this update to correct the problem.
4) Anamorphic lens can be purchased to expand screen to 2.35:1 Cinascope, like newer Runco's.
5) The new Pearl & Mits 5000 are very good too, but, are LCDs which, in general, are lower in brightness.
6) The 1080P video processor is one of the best in the business.

Am I missing anything?