I am curious about the "mounted 1.5' above the screen" portion. For a very large 235:1 screen, say 12' wide, how much higher then the screen does the HD81 need to be mounted? Thanks.

I wouldn't worry about running a 20' HDMI cable. I regularly run 30' to 35' HDMI cables and have never had a problem. BUT don't forget to run the null modem serial cable (or at least some CAT-5 wire from the projector's location to the where your video processor will sit).

The HD81 looks very good out of the box, but it will certainly look better with some adjustments and it will look its best with an ISF calibration,

The projector has digital keystone correction, but you want to avoid using it if you can since it will result in some artifacting.

I would not buy this projector based on the auto iris, and while the problems with the auto iris can be somewhat mitigated with a firmware upgrade, I doubt they can be fully resolved. In other words, don't expect the auto iris of the HD81 to operate like the auto iris on the Sony Pearl. However, the adjustable iris can help maximize contrast ratio depending on source material and the life of the bulb, and it performs as advertised.

The intent is that owners will be able to download new firmware and do the upgrades with just a Windows-based computer and the supplied serial cable.

The video processor is the same one used by the $20k Marantz 1080p projector, so for the price of the HD81, it has an excellent vp.

1080p projectors are very sophisticated pieces of equipment, and HDCP issues only add to their complexity. Like all computer hardware, expect to spend some time installing it correctly, getting it to "play nice" with your other pieces of equipment, and maximizing its picture quality.

"The Auto Iris isn't so good, but, newer HD81s have updated software that corrects this problem. Previous owners can download this update to correct the problem."

That doesn't seem to be the prevaling opinion.

Kevin,
Did I understand it correctly that the projector is designed to be set up 1.5' above or below the top or bottom of the screen? Lets say I'm setting up the HD81 for 15'-18' from a 120" Dia 16x9 screen. Would that distance (1.5"-+) change or have I miss read a previous post?
noah,
I take it the update didn't improve the iris problem much? Is it that bad?

Kevin,
Did I understand it correctly that the projector is designed to be set up 1.5' above or below the top or bottom of the screen? Lets say I'm setting up the HD81 for 15'-18' from a 120" Dia 16x9 screen. Would that distance (1.5"-+) change or have I miss read a previous post?
noah,
I take it the update didn't improve the iris problem much? Is it that bad?

DERG,

I'm sorry but I just have to say something here. I take it you are a nice guy and about to spend a significant amount of money on a new projector. So here it goes:

First to your questions:

- NO, the HD81 is NOT designed to be " set up 1.5' above or below the top or bottom of the screen". It has a fixed offset of 136,5%. That means -> multiply your screen heights with a factor of 0.365 and you will have the distance between the top/bottom of your screen and the middle of the lens. That is the way it is designed... Everything else is just a band-aid!

- FORGET ABOUT THE AUTO IRIS. In over 10 years in this great hobby, owning and evaluating a few dozen projectors I HAVE NEVER SEEN A WORSE AUTO-IRIS implementation in my life - or any implemented feature for that matter. To say this auto-iris is "unusable" and "destracting" is like the greatest understatement of the century - I have never witnessed nor can I imagine a worse implementation - and NO firmware in the world will ever change this (it is by design sloooow and unbelievably noisy)

I'm sorry for speaking so plainly - I'm sure it is certainly not so popular around here - I just want you to avoid a very expensive mistake...

I really don't want to go into details so I close my post with two short comments and let you do the thinking:

- The most important thing when actually buying a HD81 is the return policy of your dealer. Check that before you take the plunge!

- Has nobody ever wondered why there are no "professional" reviews available for the HD81??? We all know that review samples are out there in the hands of reviewers for months now! And yet the only "review" that has been pubished is this : http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/906optomahd81/

Read between the lines! Then look how many early adopters here are asking for and discussing FIRMWARE upgrades! Then wonder why no other reviews get published! Then think about it for a second! All this is for a reason... :rolleyes:

(I cannot believe that some are actually recommending this unit to innocent people...this thing has a thousand and one issues...I will stop now before I get myself into trouble ;) )

Greetings:

I received my brand-new HD81 today and just hooked it up. It has a strange problem.

When it's first turned on, everything seems to work fine, but after only a few minutes of use, the screen goes blue, and the blue light on the projector marked "Lamp" flashes blue, indicating a problem with the HDMI cable between the control box and the projector. I've tried two different HDMI cables, including the 6' one that comes with the projector.

If I unplug the cable from the projector and re-insert it, it works again, but only briefly, then back to the blue screen. It seems like the connector on the projector is intermittent. Sometimes wiggling it restores the picture, but again, only briefly.

I've looked at the connector, and it seems OK.

Has anyone heard of this problem? I sent Optoma a Support e-mail, but haven't heard back from them.

It's looking like I have an intermittent thermal problem. Ratz, I was really looking forward to using it tonight.

-doug-

Greetings:

I received my brand-new HD81 today and just hooked it up. It has a strange problem.

When it's first turned on, everything seems to work fine, but after only a few minutes of use, the screen goes blue, and the blue light on the projector marked "Lamp" flashes blue, indicating a problem with the HDMI cable between the control box and the projector. I've tried two different HDMI cables, including the 6' one that comes with the projector.

If I unplug the cable from the projector and re-insert it, it works again, but only briefly, then back to the blue screen. It seems like the connector on the projector is intermittent. Sometimes wiggling it restores the picture, but again, only briefly.

I've looked at the connector, and it seems OK.

Has anyone heard of this problem? I sent Optoma a Support e-mail, but haven't heard back from them.

It's looking like I have an intermittent thermal problem. Ratz, I was really looking forward to using it tonight.

-doug-

I think Joe Linn had a similar problem and it had something to do with his serial cable, not his hdmi cable. Look for some previous posts from him.

Joe

I think Joe Linn had a similar problem and it had something to do with his serial cable, not his hdmi cable. Look for some previous posts from him.

Joe

Thanks -- I looked, but they had a different problem, albeit with similar symptoms.

I did a bunch of HDMI and RS-232 cable swaps, with no success at all. I also checked the controller box for excessive heat -- it was reasonable. Then I decided to try High Altitude mode ( I live in Denver). Guess what?

It's been a hour now with no blue screen or fluttering. The fan noise is quite a bit higher than I'd hoped, but if it works, so be it. At least is lower than my old Boxlight 555. That thing was like a jet engine with a light bulb and lens glued to the front!

I'll report back if this turns out to be an effective solution.

-doug-

(I cannot believe that some are actually recommending this unit to innocent people...this thing has a thousand and one issues...I will stop now before I get myself into trouble ;) )
I agree that the auto iris is useless -- I've said so many times. I agree that there is a lack of flexibility in installation -- I've said so many times. I agree that the firmware needs further refinement -- I've said so many times. But none of these issues go to the most significant point -- 1080p picture quality.

If firmware releases are indicia of faulty hardware, then essentially every piece of computer and video hardware is a piece of junk, including SD and HD DVD players, most front projectors, MP3 players, HTPC components, etc.

Read "professional" reviews, and every piece of sophisticated equipment has its own idiosyncracies. While Greg Rogers has defined the perfect projector, building it is another matter -- especially for $7,000.

I could have exchanged the HD81 for a Pearl or Mitsubishi LCD -- I chose not to because I found these options to offer a lesser image. I have no financial interest in promoting this projector, and I don't owe anyone an apology for sharing my experiences, both good and bad, with it.

Don't buy this projector for the auto iris. Don't buy this projector if you have a low ceiling or short room. Don't buy this projector if you are uncomfortable dealing with minimal software glitches. But if you want a 1080p DLP projector with a first class processor and an amazing picture for under $7,000, then this is the ONLY game in town.

There is a difference between being innocent and uninformed and there is a difference between the three problems discussed above and the hyperbole that the HD81 has "a thousand and one issues."

When properly installed, configured, calibrated, and fed a quality 1080 signal, the HD81 displays an incredible image that can't be beat for under $20,000, and no one has disputed that -- end of story.

Well said Kevin. We must not loose sight that this is an incredible projector and an incredible value. Problems? Yes, but that's the price we pay for being on the bleeding edge. I'll pay that price any time in order to have the very best projected image possible in a projector I can afford.......
Ed

DERG,
I really don't want to go into details...

this thing has a thousand and one issues...

I for one would like to hear more about details and issues, beyond DI and installation limitations, which every owner of the HD81 posting here has spoken to. We've heard of a couple of HDMI issues and some say loud fan--others say it's not too loud.

The fact that Optoma has released new firmware versions is not a bad thing in my
opinion, this is means they want to get it right. HDMI issues are not uncommon these days with many consumer electronics products.

The Ultimate AV review was a pre-production sample, three firmware versions back from what's shipping currently. The fact that Optoma hasn't put a bunch of HD81's into reviewers hands could speak to the fact that the model is back ordered through November.

I could name five issues associated with the performance of the Pearl, many of
which continue from the Ruby, but that doesn't mean the projector is garbage.

I have a Toshiba HD DVD player that has gone through a lot of firmware updates.
There are many who returned their units, but those that stuck with them have
been rewarded by better and better performance. This is the nature of being an
early adopter.

Yes, I could buy the Marantz 11S1, but is it really worth almost three times the
price of a currently flawed, but gorgeous looking HD81? Does anybody knock the
Marantz because it doesn't have a DI?

Jeff Regan

Does anyone know whether Optoma is shipping the anamorphic lense option that they exhibited at CEDIA?

Supposedly it was going to be a $4,000 upgrade, but I haven't heard of anyone that has been able to get one.

I am seriously contemplating this setup for a new constant height theater in my basement. The Schneider lenses from what I have read are extremely high quality and don't affect picture quality all that much and the outboard processor is capable of the vertical stretch needed to use all the dmd resolution.

Also a quick question about the fixed offset. If I flush mounted the HD81 to my 104" ceiling so that the lense was say 4 inches below the ceiling, would the top of my proposed 54" high screen need to be 19.71" (54 x .365) below the lense of the projector, or 23.71" below my ceiling?

Thanks! I love the forum. Very helpful! :D

I agree that the auto iris is useless -- I've said so many times. I agree that there is a lack of flexibility in installation -- I've said so many times. I agree that the firmware needs further refinement -- I've said so many times. But none of these issues go to the most significant point -- 1080p picture quality.

If firmware releases are indicia of faulty hardware, then essentially every piece of computer and video hardware is a piece of junk, including SD and HD DVD players, most front projectors, MP3 players, HTPC components, etc.

Read "professional" reviews, and every piece of sophisticated equipment has its own idiosyncracies. While Greg Rogers has defined the perfect projector, building it is another matter -- especially for $7,000.

I could have exchanged the HD81 for a Pearl or Mitsubishi LCD -- I chose not to because I found these options to offer a lesser image. I have no financial interest in promoting this projector, and I don't owe anyone an apology for sharing my
experiences, both good and bad, with it.

Don't buy this projector for the auto iris. Don't buy this projector if you have a low ceiling or short room. Don't buy this projector if you are uncomfortable dealing with minimal software glitches. But if you want a 1080p DLP projector with a first class processor and an amazing picture for under $7,000, then this is the ONLY game in town.

There is a difference between being innocent and uninformed and there is a difference between the three problems discussed above and the hyperbole that the HD81 has "a thousand and one issues."

When properly installed, configured, calibrated, and fed a quality 1080 signal, the HD81 displays an incredible image that can't be beat for under $20,000, and no one has disputed that -- end of story.


Kevin,

I knew I would get into troubles :p

Fact is I was thinking just like you. You find me participating all HD81 thread since its very first announcment/presentation at CES. I was a HUGE fan about the idea of getting the 1080p DMD, the Gennum VXP scaler, 300W brightness, I was amazed that TzungILin went the extra mile and integrated an auto-iris (which he said delivers "better" results than the "too aggressive" Ruby implementation...) and above all I was thrilled be the prospect of getting all this at an affordable price. And trust me - the price I could get this was even more tempting than what you guys in the states are paying for it... The offer I got was € 4899.- (including 16% taxes) for the HD81, in contrast you can get a Pearl in Europe for about 4499.- - so the Optoma is one hell of a deal! Almost a no-brainer. I was excited - trust me. Then I got the opportunity to spend 9.5 hours (!!!) at a dealer comparing the HD81 and the Pearl in a direct shootout. Using my own equipment - HTPC, Toshiba HD-DVD player,... all day long! I was SURE I would leave this shootout with a HD81 under my arm - the price was very right, it has all the bells and whistles I'm looking for (at least on paper)...

So what was my experience:

- The picture is sharp, very sharp. It makes the (handpicked, with GREAT convergence) Pearl look overly smooth, even blurred in direct comparison. Especially when feeding 1080p directly from the HTPC. I certainly prefer 1-chip DLPs crispness.

- Optics are VERY good indeed. Almost no CA. Evenly sharp from corner to corner. This certainly has to do with the lack of lens shift - which helps alot getting sharp results from the optical path.

- Alot of brightness, alot of punch! Iris steps help you to get the optimal light output/contrast compromise. The 300W lamp (although just inherited from the EP 910 business projector) was one of the features I was looking forward to the most - solar brightness coupled with 1080p!!! What a prospect. Problem: It is LOUD. 100% unacceptable loud for any high class HT. You now - the whole EP910 background wasn't all that important for me - until I first experienced the HD81 in person. It is a FACT that there is a hell of a difference in designing a BUSINESS projector and a home theatre projector. These are two different breeds altogether. To base the HD81 on the EP910 design was meant to allow a very cost effective and FAST entry into market. That would have been a success when the HD81 really shipped in Juni/July, as originally planned/targeted. IMHO this whole concept has backfired badly - Sure it is bright - but because it is such a small, light, almost fragile unit (some may even go as far as calling it unbelievably cheap looking especially for its price and in comparison with the Pearl - which is a much more robust, solid construction) all there is to cool this thing down is a fast rotating fan. Look at how much work other projector companies invest into building an effective and almost silent cooling design - look at prime examples like the Ruby, Pearl, Mitsubishi HC5000, BenQ 8720... -> these are Home Theatre designs... I'm sorry but the HD81 (especially in high brightness (and thats what we have the 300W for...)) sounds just like a vacuum cleaner. Which is a pretty good thing because that way you don't hear the color wheel whining all that much anymore :rolleyes: Right, "why don't you just build a hush box then".

Band-Aids - that is what this projector sadly is all about.

There is no lens-shift (read: business projector design) - just tilt your screen or deal with a little keystone problem ("which isn't all that apparent to begin with" ...).

The throw ratio is 1.85-2.22 - you are joking right (read: business projector design) - Just buy a smaller screen, cut a hole into the back wall or just get yourself a bigger house then, problem solved

The Auto-Iris is likely the single worst implementation of a feature to ever show up in a professional projection product - sorry, but even if you try really hard you cannot come up with a worse design... - solution: just do not use it, other DLP projectors don't even have this "option" ...

The projector is LOUD (read: business projector design) - solution: build a hush box and use it in economy mode (what good is the 300W lamp then?)

This thing is unbelievably buggy - it "forgets"/defaults settings, it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get the levels right (PC/Video level options in combination with the brightness/contrast/gamma controls were not enough to get proper levels with my HTPC, with the HD-DVD player you have to use PC levels to make it work somehow...), suddenly the color saturation is way off after switching inputs, the HDMI inputs do not have proper EDID programming - It is not possible to boot the HTPC with the HD81 connected to it, you have to boot with a monitor connected to it and switch cables then....... and a 995 other issues :confused: - solution: You have the "old" C05 firmware - well just wait for our new shiny C06, C07. We will get it right this time ;)

My two "favourite" shotcomings:

- The HDMI inputs even of the European version do not support the 1080p/50Hz format :rolleyes: I know that is no (big) deal for you guys in the states but imagine this -> A company comes out with a new $7000.- 1080p projector in the states and DOES NOT support 1080p/60Hz input? What would you think of such a company??? Just unbelievable... Optoma, (what) are you thinking?

- The second is for you guys. Optoma delivers this fancy Gennum VXP based video processor together with the projector - great feature. (Just DO NOT expect the implementation of this video processor to be ANYWHERE near on par with other (stand alone) Gennum based video processors like the Crystalio (which I have) or the upcoming Lumagen. It is a HUGE difference of having the Gennum VXP processor on a spec sheet and building an effective, well rounded and feature rich solution around it...) This processor supports 1080p/24 input - great feature. The projector itself supports judderfree presentation of 24p content @ 48Hz - GREAT feature. Everybody with this projector should do himself a favor and buy a HD-DVD player - and I think most will. So there you have it - HD-DVD with 24p content, a Gennum based scaler and a 24p/48Hz capable projector. Movie nirvana - no 3:2 pulldown judder anymore. Well - lets look closer! ALL HD-DVD player (even the upcoming G2) have 1080/60i (G2 XA2 will have 1080p/60 but NO 1080p/24) output. So the only thing you need a video processor/scaler for with HD-DVD is Inverse Telecine for the 60i -> 24p conversion. But wait - we have a "state of the art" (at least on the spec sheet) Gennum based ( :eek: ) video processor that comes with the HD81. We all know that the VXP DOES GREAT IVTC. So lets feed it the 1080i/60 output from the HD-DVD player - let it do the IVTC -> 24p and enjoy JUDDERFREE playback on our fancy new projector. Wait a minute - the Gennum VXP processor is one of the most advanced video processors around, ANY other Gennum based Scaler/Video Processor (and yes, "even" the Marantz on-board solution) supports its great IVTC capability - any other but NOT the Optoma :rolleyes:

So in order to get judderfree HD-DVD playback with your 24p/48Hz capable video processor/projector combo (which we all agree is a MUST-HAVE) you - and now sit down - have to buy another video processor/scaler (just about ANY recent one will do...), put it between your HD-DVD player and your fancy Optoma video processor. Now you have a proper chain: HD-DVD -> 1080/60i -> "Any other video processor" -> 1080p/24 -> Optoma's video processor -> Projector. No comment!

Remember - this is not some theoretical niche situation - HD-DVD together with the HD81 is a most likely scenario. And look how well Optoma has thought through this...

I could go on and on... There is no point.

Yes, Kevin, the picture quality is very good. But IMHO it is good because TI's 1080p DMD including the new control circuit is really great. Optoma's implementation of it is questionable at best - especially considering that this is supposed to be a Home Theater projector (in reality it is a business projector with the new 1080p DMD stuffed into it, a HT color wheel and some "looks better on the spec sheet than in reality" video processor). I can just imagine what a reviewer like Greg Rogers would have to say about it - but you can rest assured that his review (as well as other "professional" reviews) would and will NEVER get published. And it is certainly NOT because the HD81 is backordered :rolleyes: Optoma would not dare to send somebody like him a review sample, and even if they did we would never see the review published - I take any bet ;)

The Pearl, although I don't like its smooth look with a lack of "punch", seemed like an unbelievably well-rounded product in contrast. But for me it is waiting again - waiting for a much more elaborate and diligent implementation of TI's great 1080p DMD. I REALLY liked the crisp and clean look of this new DMD - Kudos to TI. Let's see what BenQ brings to the table - the W10000 will be slightly dimmer (250W lamp) BUT it is based on a solid, excellent and proven Home Theater (!!!) design (8720) -> it will be SILENT, it will have lens shift, it will have a sane throw ratio, it will have a much more robust build quality, it will have the (even) better lens, it will have processing thats hopefully on par with THIS Gennum implementation and it will certainly have its own share of issues - but I fully expect the issues will not be so excessive. BTW it will cost A LOT less ;) We will see...available next week.

But Kevin, you are just like me - we both just look for a fast and affordable way to get our hands on TI's 1080p DMD. If you want to get early and affordable into 1080p DLP you HAVE to make compromises. The HD81 seemed like a quite good compromise to me - I knew and was willing to deal with its shortcomings and issues - But then I saw it in person, I tried some non standard stuff with it (HTPC, 24p,...) and the issues are just all over the place. I tried really hard to just live with it - but this product has incompetence written all over it IMHO ( the auto-iris implementation is just representative for the design as whole). Sorry for talking so plainly.

And don't get me wrong - I don't expect Marantz's level of execution and accuracy from Optoma but THIS is too much to bear and accept for me. I don't want a product where all I'm thinking about is coming up with band-aids all the time.

Lion,

thank you for restating some of my findings regarding noise and whine from the color wheel. I was beginning to think I had a defective unit. Between the HDMI color, tint repeatability issues (I am using all three HDMI inputs) and the noise that others do not seem to find offensive, I was beginning to doubt my 40 years of experience with AV equipment.

I believe it boils down to how much crap are you willing to put up with for a potentially outstanding picture. Every time I change a source or even a channel, it can take me up to 10 minutes to get a satisfactory picture. Often it is not something I do. Sometimes the color saturation comes up for no apparent reason. When it finally seems to be correct, it is a joy. Getting there is the hard part.

Keep in mind that I am still using C04.

As an HD81 owner in waiting (ordered mine yesterday) I think it might be a good idea to keep a list of issues that we can make sure are in front of Optoma's eyes. Some of these might not be fixable such as the DI implementation or fan noise but others can be addressed by firmware. I think this could be useful for existing users but also prospective HD81 owners who can make a call on whether a particular issue is going to impact them.

Good idea? Bad idea?

While I will post my disagreements with TheLion below, I would like to point out that his posts are well thought out and filled with good information. Also, this projector is clearly not for everyone.

There is no lens-shift (read: business projector design) - just tilt your screen or deal with a little keystone problem ("which isn't all that apparent to begin with" ...).
After careful measurements and using quality universal ceiling adapters that allow for minor adjustments, I succesfully installed this projector without any issues. Admittedly I have an 11' ceiling. If you have an 8' ceiling and are looking at tilting your screen - this projector is not for you.

The throw ratio is 1.85-2.22 - you are joking right (read: business projector design) - Just buy a smaller screen, cut a hole into the back wall or just get yourself a bigger house then, problem solved
Thank God for the long throw of this projector. It sits at the back of my 25' showroom and projects a 126" 16:9 image. This is great for two reasons - one, it is not mounted above any sitting position and two, because of the fan noise, it is not too near any sitting position. Fan noise is definitely unacceptable for a projector in this price range.

The Auto-Iris is likely the single worst implementation of a feature to ever show up in a professional projection product
Not only do I agree, but they DELAYED the release of this projector to implement the auto-iris. To think this projector could have been out in June and with a lower price simply amazes me that Optoma bothered spending the time on a horrible implementation.

This thing is unbelievably buggy - it "forgets"/defaults settings, it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get the levels right (PC/Video level options in combination with the brightness/contrast/gamma controls were not enough to get proper levels with my HTPC, with the HD-DVD player you have to use PC levels to make it work somehow...), suddenly the color saturation is way off after switching inputs, the HDMI inputs do not have proper EDID programming - It is not possible to boot the HTPC with the HD81 connected to it, you have to boot with a monitor connected to it and switch cables then....... and a 995 other issues :confused: - solution: You have the "old" C05 firmware - well just wait for our new shiny C06, C07. We will get it right this time ;)
C05 works great, but I don't use a HTPC. Again, this projector is NOT for eveyone.

The second is for you guys. Optoma delivers this fancy Gennum VXP based video processor together with the projector - great feature. (Just DO NOT expect the implementation of this video processor to be ANYWHERE near on par with other (stand alone) Gennum based video processors like the Crystalio (which I have) or the upcoming Lumagen.
Did you really expect to get a $3,500 scaler and one of the first 1080p projectors for around $7,000? Maybe in a year or two you will, but at today's price point the only people who should be upset are those who already own a Crystalio and don't need the Optoma's scaler box.

Remember - this is not some theoretical niche situation - HD-DVD together with the HD81 is a most likely scenario. And look how well Optoma has thought through this...
IMO, HD-DVD through a HD-81 is stunning.

I could go on and on... There is no point.
Nor do you need to. Your posts here are very welcome and if they scare away some would be HD81 customers its probably for the best. People shouldn't try to cram this machine into a room with the wrong dimensions, put it too close to their seating positions and probably not hook it up to a HTPC until they work out those bugs.

I think I agree with EVERYTHING in your posts, but not your conclusion that "I cannot believe that some are actually recommending this unit to innocent people...this thing has a thousand and one issues". I would agree that this projector is not for everyone, but it is definitely for some.

Lion,

thank you for restating some of my findings regarding noise and whine from the color wheel. I was beginning to think I had a defective unit. Between the HDMI color, tint repeatability issues (I am using all three HDMI inputs) and the noise that others do not seem to find offensive, I was beginning to doubt my 40 years of experience with AV equipment.

I believe it boils down to how much crap are you willing to put up with for a potentially outstanding picture. Every time I change a source or even a channel, it can take me up to 10 minutes to get a satisfactory picture. Often it is not something I do. Sometimes the color saturation comes up for no apparent reason. When it finally seems to be correct, it is a joy. Getting there is the hard part.

Art,

I agree with you a 100%. Problem for me is that even if they fix some of the issues with upcoming firmware updates there still remains my personal feeling of having an incompetently designed product in front of me - totally unacceptable for MSRP $7000.-

The Pearl (and the Marantz, Sharp, Sim2,... for that matter) feels like a well-rounded, professional product, whereas the feeling I personally got from the HD81 was some enthusiast fixing together a business projector, TI's 1080p DMD, a 7 segment HT color wheel and the praised Gennum VXP in his garage. Just my 2 cents.

Thank God for the long throw of this projector. It sits at the back of my 25' showroom and projects a 126" 16:9 image. This is great for two reasons - one, it is not mounted above any sitting position and two, because of the fan noise, it is not too near any sitting position. Fan noise is definitely unacceptable for a projector in this price range.

...

C05 works great, but I don't use a HTPC. Again, this projector is NOT for eveyone.


...


I think I agree with EVERYTHING in your posts, but not your conclusion that "I cannot believe that some are actually recommending this unit to innocent people...this thing has a thousand and one issues". I would agree that this projector is not for everyone, but it is definitely for some.

CriticalListener,

thank you for your comments.

- About the throw ratio - I agree 100% with you BUT 1) the range of throw ratio "should be" much larger than 1.2 in a HT projector and 2) the long throw (= ~1.85 - 2.0) should be the UPPER end of the throw ratio and not the lower end! Something like 1.4-2.0 is optimal -> that way you can place the projector way behind the seating position (at 1.8-2.0) whereas other customers can use their HP screen/ and or a large screen in a smaller room with a seating position at 1.2-1.3x screen width (something thats easily doable with 1080p native resolution) and the projector at 1.5x. But that was not even a design decision Optoma made - they just took the EP910 business projector and the result is this throw ratio... Bottom line: Placement flexibility is non existent. (But we knew THIS all along).

- The HD81 I reviewed has firmware C05!!!

- With "innocent" I mean general customers that don't know EXACTLY what they are dealing with. Even the lack of lens shift can make it hard, yes almost impossible for them to install this thing. And even if you are fully aware of all the limitations and attributes of the HD81 prepare yourself to be surprised (depending on the complexity of your setup/equipment) into how many issues you will run into. Considering this I cannot imagine how one can recommend this projector in general - but that does certainly not mean that there are no customers out there which will be quite satisfied and happy with the HD81. But that's not the basis for recommending a product in my opinion - any single product out there will be considered useful by some customers - but that doesn't make it a "Recommended" purchase in general ...

I really couldn't find much to complain about with the HD81. I did notice it not remembering 7.5 & 0 or PC vs Video but C05 fixed that. Then I was made aware of the color shift when hitting the color control slider. That had to be pointed out to me because I never used the color control, just the RGB-advanced for colorfacts. So my grayscale tunings always matched the devices and looked great by the way. ;)

On the Iris when I had C04 yes the Iris was very active and noticeable, C05 slowed things down to where it would take time to spot it's changes by brightness or shutter sound. In testing though you can get better blacks/contrast by finding a good fixed spot for the Iris. Which you all know by now and testing yourself. You've see it, you get a darker more contrasty image.

Overall the images are colorful, bright with high contrast, very smooth and noise free much like what we liked about the NEC HT1000. What else? oh it's nice to move your devices up to 1080i to match the 1080chip - no more 720p (ComcastHD, HD-DVD, Pany S97) all taken up to 1080i. The optics are excellent also, no CA and the detail test on the HQV test DVD was super crisp.

No problem with fan sound for me, I've been around enough digital projectors to know when the sound level is a problem, the HD81 isn't one of them. Offset no problem for my 106" screen with just 8' ceilings, setup was easy.

You first setup the project on the flush mount, then the screen gets set to the video line widths, from their I lowered my screen to match the video height/bottom, piece of cake. :)

- With "innocent" I mean general customers that don't know EXACTLY what they are dealing with...

That's me! I lesson to others who know about these things & really don't want to make an expensive mistake. But, I can only learn by sticking my neck out & posting some naive questions & get some feedback...& what feedback I got! It's all great & I thank you all.

CRT projectors on large screens always seemed too soft & dark to me + convergence issues. LCOS & LCDs seem to be better but have alignment issues with their 3 fixed panels & lack punch compared to DLPs. Then DLPs have the color wheel flicker problem, but, seem to offer the best bang for the buck.
So, that leaves us with the HD81 & the new, untested BenQ 1000 for under $10k with 1080P. I want to complete my HT in the next few months so I'm hoping to hear better reviews of the BenQ. The HD81, for now, is on hold!

As an attorney, I believe in finding truth through the adversary system, which involves the competent (and passionate) presentation of opposing views supported by facts. In that regard, you’ve done an excellent job arguing and supporting your position, and I hope our debate has "enlightened" folks considering the HD81. I think you state many valid facts and problems with the HD81 and I can see why in your situation it is unacceptable, but I would respectfully disagree with some of your conclusions as to how much these problems impact specific users.

The HD81 on high fan is better than the Samsung H710AE and my old Sony VPH-D50 (crt) projector, about the same as BenQ PE8700 and 7700 and the Optoma H79, and it is without question worse than the Sony Pearl. I don’t have experience with the Mitsubishi HC5000 BenQ 8720, so I can’t compare.

Once I understood the software “glitches” I came up with (IMHO) easy work arounds, and I have not had any problems for the past two weeks – I’ve just enjoyed the image.

You are more of an expert on video processors and I agree that Optoma did not fully exploit the Gennum’s capabilities, but again we are talking about a projector that sells for less than a third of the Marantz. You mention that the Marantz processor can produce judderless motion, but in the Greg Rogers review of the Marantz, he used the same set-up of multiple processors that you say is a major flaw in the Optoma:

"Additionally, I was elated to have a 1080p projector that was able to display video at 48 Hz without motion judder. I used a Lumagen VisionHDQ™ video processor (or a DVDO iScan™ VP30 can be used) to upconvert DVDs to smooth, judderless 1080p48 video for the VP-11S1."
I don't recommend products but I try to provide objective information that has some basis in fact based on numerous observations using the AVIAPro DVD, the Accupel signal generator (built by Greg Rogers and used in all of his reviews), and the Progressive Labs CA-6X colorimeter. I try to avoid emotional superlatives but to provide data as to gray scale, color space, performance under specific test patterns, and describe scenes from DVDs that most people are familiar with. In short, I have tried to be as honest and upfront as to the pros and cons of the HD81.

I thought seriously about trading the HD81 for the Sony Pearl, but I couldn't get past the less 3D image and the problem with white field uniformity (which I thought was noticeable on scenes with substantial white content such as LOTR when the Fellowship is climbing over the snow-covered pass). The Sony may not be as refined as you think -- Dan Rapp had to send his back for repair because when first turned on it would only display pixilated and solarized images until it warmed up. Read the Pearl threads, and you will find that it has its own share of problems and idiosyncrasies.

I hope the BenQ is a viable implementation of the 1080p DLP chip, but I wouldn’t hold my breath that it will be out next week (maybe this only applies to the US), but ask anyone who owned the BenQ PE7700 about their confidence level in BenQ. Again, I think BenQ is a great company with innovative and high-value products, but it has had its share if QC issues. My favorite projector was the Samsung H710AE designed with input from Joe Kane. It threw the most beautiful image until bulbs refused to ignite after 20 hours or so. This is not to knock the Pearl, Samsung, or BenQ, but to point out that in my experience all projectors have issues that one needs to be willing to work around or stick with NTSC technology.

The HD81 is not for everyone, and I certainly hope that potential buyers will fully understand the challenges and benefits of this projector. Something better is always coming down the road in A/V, but my Samsung gave out in August and I had the money to get the HD81 now, so that is what I did. For my home theater environment and system, I don’t regret my purchase and I wouldn’t trade it for any of the other current 1080p options in the same price range. I have seen the $50k to $100k+ projectors at CES, and I got to spend a lot of time with the Runco anamorphic system on the Home Theater Cruise last year. Sure, if money is no object, these are better and more refined products – but at what a price! Indeed, I have not owned or seen a projector in this price range that has provided as much viewing satisfaction and fun as the HD81. And that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

Thanks for an interesting and hopefully informative debate. :)

The Lion,

You have made valid points about the HD81 and its board room table roots, but like the other issues you've described, these issues have been well documented previously. It is a product that is more challenging to install, does not have some of the expected home theater conveniences and is in need of refinement via firmware updates.

BUT, it is the best looking projector under $10K at this moment. There is always something better around the corner, and I hope the BENQ10000 could be one them. Also, the HD81 was designed for 2:35:1 anamorphic lenses from the beginning and a shorter throw would not work with most anamorphic lenses on the market. Pearl is not as good a choice for anamorphic, Marantz 11S1 had to have a firmware update for proper anamorphic aspect ratio.

I sat within three feet of the HD81 during my demo and while the fan was certainly louder
than Ruby or Pearl, I didn't hear the color wheel and I know I won't need to be in high bulb
mode for my room and the pj will be further away.

Sony has had a year to fix or improve certain Ruby issues for the Pearl, which they did in
some cases, but there is still convergence error, CA, white and black level uniformity issues
and certainly less light output than the HD81, and a lens that has a lot of light drop on one end of the zoom vs. the other. SXRD seems to be less detailed and have less native CR and less three dimensionality with the Pearl implimentation. Would you recommend people wait for the next generation SXRD pj from Sony? The price difference vs. the HD81 is about the cost of a basic outboard scaler, which the latter includes.

Your not feeling comfortable with the HD81 is certainly your right, but trying to make forum members who own the pj feel guilty for saying anything positive about it isn't fair.

Jeff Regan

As an attorney, I believe in finding truth through the adversary system, which involves the competent (and passionate) presentation of opposing views supported by facts. In that regard, you’ve done an excellent job arguing and supporting your position, and I hope our debate has "enlightened" folks considering the HD81. I think you state many valid facts and problems with the HD81 and I can see why in your situation it is unacceptable, but I would respectfully disagree with some of your conclusions as to how much these problems impact specific users.

I would really like to thank both The Lion and Kevin Anderson for their valuable comments in this thread. This is the way debate should be conducted. Frankly, it is a breath of fresh air compared to what goes on in the HD-DVD and Blu-ray forums! :eek:

If anything, this debate helps potential buyers to be more informed, which is something we all want. To put it in words that Kevin will appreciate: caveat emptor! ;)

Wow, I've been away for less than a day, and the flood gates (of info) have been released! I second Rob's sentiment: I very much appreciate Lion and Kevin's (and others') thoughts and evaluations; it actually produces a very consistent picture of this pj that is a great help for our community. And it's a credit to everyone that though the discussion has been at time passionate, it has all been honest and to the point of how the pj performs.

Like a number of persons above, I am waiting keenly to see how the BenQ W10000 performs. It will surely be much quieter than the HD81, and hopefully have a shorter throw. And the 8720 platform on which it is based has gotten very positve reviews, so perhaps it will have fewer 'glitches'. It will, unfortunately, not be as bright as the HD81, maybe be quite a bit; to compensate for this the short throw will be a necessity (for me) in order to use a HP screen with it.

This is all good stuff!
Many thanks to all.

Kevin,

I inputted your settings yesterday. They resolved some of the blue green flavor of the whites as delivered. I apologize for my outright dismissal of using those values. It makes sense that a sinle chip, digital device would have negligible variability sample to sample. I went ahead and put the values in for every input. When I finally am able to load C05, I will perform a full blown set up using the 3X version of the Progressive Labs device. I will publish my values for comparison. I expect our results should agree.

CriticalListener,

"It sits at the back of my 25' showroom and projects a 126" 16:9 image."

That calculates to 2.73:1 throw ratio - is that a typo?

Kevin,

"My favorite projector was the Samsung H710AE"

That's before you saw the HD81, right?

Sony has had a year to fix or improve certain Ruby issues for the Pearl, which they did in
some cases, but there is still convergence error, CA, white and black level uniformity issues
and certainly less light output than the HD81, and a lens that has a lot of light drop on one end of the zoom vs. the other.
Why is the Pearl issues important to a HD81 discussion?

Why is the Pearl issues important to a HD81 discussion?

I think he was making the point the the Pearl, say--a pj that the Lion noted was more 'user friendly' and 'mature' than the HD81--also still has 'issues' that have not been fixed even in its second generation.

Why is the Pearl issues important to a HD81 discussion?

Exactly what Millerwill said, The Lion referenced the Pearl as being the more mature
product, better built, quieter, more of a true home theater projector--all of which I agree with, but I wanted to point out that, like EVERY projector out there, at any
price point, there are issues and compromises. The HD81 is no different, albeit, perhaps with more than its share of quirks, limitations, special requirements in its
current form. The HD81, like the Pearl, represent cutting edge technology, especially
at their price points, but even a giant like Sony wasn't able to rid the Pearl of issues
that the Ruby was known for after a year of further development.

Jeff Regan

Kevin,
"My favorite projector was the Samsung H710AE"
That's before you saw the HD81, right?
It would be very difficult for me to return to even a fully functioning H710AE due to the resolution differences. If I was only going to watch SD DVDs and some HDTV, I would have been happy with the 720p Samsung, but once I saw HD-DVD on a 1080p projector, there was no going back.

Maybe we haven't emphasized enough that like all high-rez devices, the HD81 (and other 1080p projectors) can sometimes be too revealing of low quality source material. I would not buy a 1080p projector unless I also had a high-definition DVD player (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) or regular access to high-bandwidth HDTV.

If this is not the case, then stick to the much lower priced 720p projectors.

The HD81, like the Pearl, represent cutting edge technology, especially
at their price points, but even a giant like Sony wasn't able to rid the Pearl of issues
that the Ruby was known for after a year of further development.

Jeff Regan
I agree 100%! There are no perfect products. One person's showstopper is another's micro nit!
I will say that of the Ruby/Pearl issues you mentioned:

2) CA? Says who? :) :)

CriticalListener,

"It sits at the back of my 25' showroom and projects a 126" 16:9 image."

That calculates to 2.73:1 throw ratio - is that a typo?



He's probably talking screen width... these FP guys seem to use that by default. At that, the lense would be 23'4" back at 2.22 throw. Add to that the 12" depth of the projector and you're looking at 8" left over to make up the 25'.

I agree 100%! There are no perfect products. One person's showstopper is another's micro nit!
I will say that of the Ruby/Pearl issues you mentioned:

2) CA? Says who? :) :)

HoustonHoyaFan,

Yes, the HD81 is not the right projector for non-HT buffs. The same could be said
of the first gen Toshiba HD DVD players, but I put up with its quirks because the
image quality pay off is worth it to me. I hope I will say the same of the HD81.

Chromatic Aberration? Check out the Pearl review in AV Guide. I was happy with
convergence and didn't see CA on the Pearl I demoed. The reviewer doesn't like DI either, which I was surprised about--I got the impression he didn't even try it on the Pearl.

Jeff Regan

Does anyone out there own an Optoma HD81 and a XBOX 360? I am most concerned about the noise level of the Optima HD 81. The Xbox 360 is very loud when running. Is the Optoma HD81 louder or quieter than a running Xbox 360?

Does anyone out there own an Optoma HD81 and a XBOX 360? I am most concerned about the noise level of the Optima HD 81. The Xbox 360 is very loud when running. Is the Optoma HD81 louder or quieter than a running Xbox 360?


Good question! I have a 360 as well, so this would be an excellent point of reference. Anyone?

The reason I didn't mention the bulbs was because since the projectors are so new, we all probably within 100 hours of each other for bulb life so the aging characteristics should be similar.
JoeIt isn't just the aging that I am talking about. Bulbs are considered in spec if the are up to 20% above or below their rated brightness. Their spectral balance seems to vary with their brightness. Their aging charectoristics can also vary. There seems to be alot more variability in bulbs than one would think. There are exceptions though.

I haven't measured any HD81s. I am speaking generally about bulbs. It isn't uncommon to find significant differences even from one brand new unit to the next, or from one brand new replacement bulb to the next. I'm only posting a caveat for those using someone elses settings. If they look worse than your stock settings, then don't use them.

Glenn

I, too, would like to compliment Kevin, TheLion, and others in this thread concerning the respectfull way they have stated their opinions and experiences with the HD-81.

One thing for those reading these posts to consider is that PJs of the same model can and do vary. It is likely that some of those posting about how the HD81 is excessively loud truly have units that are louder those those who find it comparable to competing units.

Kevins post about the Sammy H710 being a bit loud is a case in point. The two that I measured were two of the quietest DLPs I have heard. I would put the H710's volume on par with the BenQ 8720.

Glenn

CriticalListener,

"It sits at the back of my 25' showroom and projects a 126" 16:9 image."

That calculates to 2.73:1 throw ratio - is that a typo?
No it's not a typo. I should have said "near the back of my 25' showroom". I also should add that my acoustically transparent screen is 40" from the front wall.

I apologize to you that the answer you got from Optoma technical support is kind of misleading.

ISF Day/ Night mode has been working since the first unit shipped. However, only ISF certified technicians/engineers can have access to the code to enable/disable and change/lock these settings.

Please identify yourself as ISF certified when you call in, our technical support will ask for some form of proof, access code would then be promptly provided.

I just got off with Optoma technical support. They do not know at this time when the ISF Day / ISF Night options will be available - and they apologized because the manual does say these should be working on product release.

I understand that this is supposed to be a location where a set of variables can be modified and saved. Denying the rest of the owners who don't feel the necessity to have an ISF technician do the setup is really tasteless. I paid for a device that advertised 2 settings that are supposed to be ISF certified. I believe Optoma should let me get into those 2 groups of settings.

Great reading so far!

I have not purchased the HD81 yet but I have been reading the manual. I have a few questions.

On p. 36 the manual describes an image shift function that can shift the image 100 pixels in each direction. Can an owner tell me a little more about this function and if there is any picture degradation with its use?

Also on p. 27 the remote has a v.shift function. What is this function capable of?

My setup requires me to mount the pj on a lift and use an electric screen. So I might need to tweak the image position to get it centered. Will these features allow me to do this w/o image distortion? Are either of these features "keystone correction"?

one more question...I downloaded an HD81 calculator awhile back from a poster in this thread using a 36.2% offset. Now that people have this pj in hand, will this calculator give me an accurate idea of placement for my screen and pj?

thanks

o man, I've been itching to use my SPL from radioshack more often....for those curious, my xbox360 scored a whooping 54db from 6 ft away. Turning back on the intercooler, it scored a 58-59.

Someone should take an SPL reading of the HD81 from the same distance at different fan speeds and let us know what kind of SPL readings you get.


One should also note that I took readings with my 360 inside a closet, so any sound projected out the back as well as sides was probably eventually channeled (at least a good percentage of it) back towards the spl tri-pod. Let me know if you'd like me to take the effort to put it in a more open space and re-measure.

ALSO, where is this 4" flush ceiling mount that I've read about so many times in this thread mentioned by TzungILin? This is the only reason I'm still on the fence about this projector. I'm sorta glad about its incompatibility with many people's setups as it is helping drive down the price...no offense to angry hopefuls, honestly though, no lens shift was a bad marketing move :o

wcaughey,

I reported 34 dB and 38 dB at low speed and high speed many messages ago. Also, it is the whine of the color wheel that is the problem, not the blower noise AFAIC.

The RPAU Chief mount gets you 4" down from the ceiling when you xtend the leveling pads. Alternatively, you can install the lateral shift kit and achieve the same 4" height by removing the leveling legs.

Can somebody please answer a question for me on brightness? I have a 136" 1.0 gain screen, and according to online tools would really need a 1.3 gain screen for this projector

1) Is this correct, or do others have a similar size/gain screen and could comment?
2) Would this calculation have been using econo-mode or high brightness anyway?
3) While I am at it - anyone know of where one of these are demo'd in the Dallas area?

Thanks for your help

MrHifi,

I checked out RAPU's Chief mount website and to be honest, I was just plain confused by all the different options, extensions, and whatnot they offered. If you could tell me which parts I would need to order in total for the flush mount kit as well as the flush mount lateral shift kit I would be very thankful.

In Greg Rodgers review of the Marantz's Gennum Deinterlacing everything was excellent accept for video based material with vertical pannings. I tested the Optoma Gennum Scaler this morning and there's no line twitter on vertical panning with the Stars Wars video based intro script. Which is what Greg used to evaulate video materials panning/deinterlacing. The horizontal tops of the lettering dispalyed solid and smooth. So it looks like Optoma got this right from the start.

Tom, do you have any news from Optoma about a possible date of fixing the reported "glitches" in the last posts -I am not talking about auto iris but of the "sillier" bugs?

I am getting nervous because I really have to buy in december, and unless BenQ provides the "killer projector", my decision is either HD72/73 or HD81 but I only would buy the latter if I am sure that at least the minor glitches can be corrected

Tom -- What DVD player were you using, what resolution was it set at, and how is it connected to the Optoma VP?

MrHifi,

I checked out RAPU's Chief mount website and to be honest, I was just plain confused by all the different options, extensions, and whatnot they offered. If you could tell me which parts I would need to order in total for the flush mount kit as well as the flush mount lateral shift kit I would be very thankful.

I would suggest giving Jason or one of the other AVS guys a call. You will get a good price, and they will be able to provide you with exactly what you need. I am using the standard RPAU mount and it works just fine.

Hope this helps,
Mike

"In Greg Rodgers review of the Marantz's Gennum Deinterlacing everything was excellent accept for video based material with vertical pannings. I tested the Optoma Gennum Scaler this morning and there's no line twitter on vertical panning with the Stars Wars video based intro script."

I doubt that Greg meant that it would fail *all* video sequences with vertical panning, so I wouldn't give it a clean bill of health that quickly.

Tom -- What DVD player were you using, what resolution was it set at, and how is it connected to the Optoma VP?

Denon 1600 interlaced over components.

Firmware hub should be up soon, maybe next week. I'll find out when I call in, but first the beta testors will get a shot.

I checked out RAPU's Chief mount website and to be honest, I was just plain confused by all the different options, extensions, and whatnot they offered. If you could tell me which parts I would need to order in total for the flush mount kit as well as the flush mount lateral shift kit I would be very thankful.

I ordered: Chief RPA-U and Chief LSB-100 but I haven't put them up yet so MrHifi would be the best one to confirm!

"In Greg Rodgers review of the Marantz's Gennum Deinterlacing everything was excellent accept for video based material with vertical pannings. I tested the Optoma Gennum Scaler this morning and there's no line twitter on vertical panning with the Stars Wars video based intro script."

I doubt that Greg meant that it would fail *all* video sequences with vertical panning, so I wouldn't give it a clean bill of health that quickly.

That's right, the Marantz just failed video vertical pans. The Optoma does not.

To help build up my anticipation and excitement...

For those who watched 720p projector models for many years that have experienced the hd81's glory....

As someone who is coming from experiences with a Sanyo Z3 for the entirety of my home theater viewing history, what will my reaction (physical, emotional, and psychological) be to a properly calibrated and setup hd81? :)

T
As someone who is coming from experiences with a Sanyo Z3 for the entirety of my home theater viewing history, what will my reaction (physical, emotional, and psychological) be to a properly calibrated and setup hd81? :)
Well, I can't speak from actual experience but I would imagine diapers would be in order...

Well, I can't speak from actual experience but I would imagine diapers would be in order...

I don't know what's funnier: this response, or the title under your username! :D

I won't have my actual theater/house finished until the end of January. Do you think it would be good to hold off to the very last moment to get the HD 81 in order to get the very latest firm ware? How easy is it to do the upgrade?

I won't have my actual theater/house finished until the end of January. Do you think it would be good to hold off to the very last moment to get the HD 81 in order to get the very latest firm ware? How easy is it to do the upgrade?

I believe the beta testers will be seeing the upgrade process this week. So after that we will have a better idea as to how hard the process. is.

Joe

I ordered: Chief RPA-U and Chief LSB-100 but I haven't put them up yet so MrHifi would be the best one to confirm!

I just received mine, the adapter plate for the Chief RPA mount is an SLB-156. I've installed it, works fine.

-doug-

wcaughey,

I ordered the RPAU mount and later ordered the LS100 lateral kit. i have no experience with the flush mount kit but if you are talking about a motorized solution or one that causes the projector to be recessed into the ceiling, be aware of the heat. This sucker is hot. With the RPAU and the LS100 you can get close to the correct placement and still have the ability to adjust he location laterally.

I'm just trying to get the hd81 to the minimum of recomended inches from the ceiling (5" I believe is what the manual says) to maximize my screen height.


weatherby, I'm waiting until the last minute. The way I see it, prices will be lower and the firmware will be well enough along - who knows, with delays on your house the hd82 may arrive with a lens shift and a worthy price! :)

Also, I called Optoma today about a question I had directed towards the Gennum VXP scaler. I wanted to know if it was rack mountable.

It apparantly is, but they hadn't tried it yet - there were parts to do it with the Gennum (really strange that they'd say that). Apparantly it'd be 19" wide compatible. Anyone know if it'd be would it be 2U or 1U?

The C07 firmware that is now in beta test is supposed to address HDMI issues, the C06 firmware was not for this market, just onscreen foreign language tweaks.

Optoma will be testing the new Panamorph UH380 and comparing it to the Schneider and
ISCO II and III this week.

HD81 is still in a serious backorder situation with new units coming in every other week for
QA and then being sent to fill previous orders.

I see that Optoma is selling the HD3000 processor separately for $2999, so that means
the HD81 is only $4000--not that it can be bought without the HD3000 of course.

Jeff Regan

Also, I called Optoma today about a question I had directed towards the Gennum VXP scaler. I wanted to know if it was rack mountable.

It apparantly is, but they hadn't tried it yet - there were parts to do it with the Gennum (really strange that they'd say that). Apparantly it'd be 19" wide compatible. Anyone know if it'd be would it be 2U or 1U?


Optoma told me that the HD3000 was not available with rack ears and they recommended a Middle Atlantic rack shelf. The HD3000 is 17"X2.5"X12", so it
should be rack mountable and is taller than one rack unit.

Jeff Regan

I'm just trying to get the hd81 to the minimum of recomended inches from the ceiling (5" I believe is what the manual says) to maximize my screen height.The manual suggests "at least 10cm distance between the bottom cover of the projector and ceiling."
I think 5" is approximately where the center of the lens will be from the ceiling.

I won't have my actual theater/house finished until the end of January. Do you think it would be good to hold off to the very last moment to get the HD 81 in order to get the very latest firm ware? How easy is it to do the upgrade?If you can start watching the HD81 right now, why wait? Current units should have the C05 firmware version. I think it is clearly Optoma's intent to have an upgrade procedure that can be done by the owner.

If you can start watching the HD81 right now, why wait? Current units should have the C05 firmware version. I think it is clearly Optoma's intent to have an upgrade procedure that can be done by the owner.

I wholeheartedly agree. We all are so much enjoying the HD81. We even use it for everyday TV now. No one wants to watch a puny 36" screen anymore :)

Joe

I see that Optoma is selling the HD3000 processor separately for $2999, so that means
the HD81 is only $4000--not that it can be bought without the HD3000 of course.

Jeff Regan

Well, not exactly. The HD81 doesn't have an internal processor, as far as I know. If it did it would probably be a couple of thousand more. Not only can't the HD81 be bought separately but would also be useless. People keep saying that the price of the HD81 is comparable to the Pearl because it comes with a $3k processor. Well, the Pearl comes with a processor too, and by most accounts it's not too shabby. perhaps somebody would buy a HD3000 for their Pearl, but then they would have two items that have value on their own. Split up the HD81 and the HD3000 and you only have an HD3000 and a doorstop. I think the HD3000 does add value but not 3k more. The value of the HD81, from what I have been reading comes from other factors equally or more importantly, such as native CR, brightness and sharpness. It's at the top of my list for my next upgrade.
Does anybody know, can the HD3000 that comes with the HD81 work with other projectors, or has it been "modded" to only work with the HD81? Thinking down the road, if the HD81 gets fried somehow, does the HD3000 have value.
thanks,
Jason

Does anybody know, can the HD3000 that comes with the HD81 work with other projectors, or has it been "modded" to only work with the HD81? Thinking down the road, if the HD81 gets fried somehow, does the HD3000 have value.The VP that comes with the HD81 will only output a 1080p signal, but I don't know for sure if it would function without the RS232 connection to the projector.

You can buy the HD3000 separately that will work with any HDMI display device and can be set to output at various resolutions including 1080i and 720p.

You make a good point about the HD81 VP possibly being useless without the projector.

The required space between the bottm of the HD81 and the ceiling is 10cm. In inches that is 10cm/2.54cm per inch=4.5 inches. The RPAU mount with the LS100 lateral kit gets you 4" more or less. Without the LS100, you can extend the legs of the RPAU and again get 4". Mine is working without overheating/shuting off under these conditions.

Regarding the ease of upgrading the software, do not count your chickens. I have done this with many satellite and audio devices. Some are simple;some never work. Because the Optoma system has 2 devices to upgrade, I believe uprading will be a tad more involved than what we have experienced before. Sure wish Optoma would get off their___ and give us C04 owners a break.

The required space between the bottm of the HD81 and the ceiling is 10cm. In inches that is 10cm/2.54cm per inch=4.5 inches.
D'oh! :o What was I thinking. Thanks Art.

The required space between the bottm of the HD81 and the ceiling is 10cm. In inches that is 10cm/2.54cm per inch=4.5 inches. The RPAU mount with the LS100 lateral kit gets you 4" more or less. Without the LS100, you can extend the legs of the RPAU and again get 4". Mine is working without overheating/shuting off under these conditions..

So does this means 4.5" from ceiling to center of lens, or what?

Frankly, I've never understood this requirement. There are no vents on the bottom of the projector and there is not a minimum clearance requirement if the projector is table mounted. I wonder if this is a left-over from its "business projector" days.

Here is what the manual says:
"If you buy the ceiling mount from other company, please ensure that there is at least 10cm distance between the bottom cover of the projector and the ceiling."

Frankly, I've never understood this requirement. There are no vents on the bottom of the projector and there is not a minimum clearance requirement if the projector is table mounted. I wonder if this is a left-over from its "business projector" days.

Here is what the manual says:
"If you buy the ceiling mount from other company, please ensure that there is at least 10cm distance between the bottom cover of the projector and the ceiling."

Maybe because on a ceiling mount the heat is rising toward the bottom of the projector?

Joe

So does this means 4.5" from ceiling to center of lens, or what?

Mine is now 4" from the metal bottom that has a small vent opening in it. I believe this opening acts as a source of air rather than a vent. The 10 cm requirement is the nominal free air spacing that most manufacturers require when part of the cabinet is designed to act as a heat conductor. I believe that is the case here. I also believe that going below 4" might be detrimental to the projector's health. Except for a few class A amps from the early '80's, I have never encountered a hotter surface than the bottom of the projector.

Greetings:

I just got my HD81 and now I have to consider getting a new screen; my old one is 4:3 and too small.

The new one will be 16:9, either 92 or 106" diagonal, and used in a fully darkened room. Practically speaking, the throw length can be anywhere between 12 and 18 feet -- with the projector ceiling-mounted. All seats are well within 30 degrees of the screen centerline, so viewing angle isn't an issue.

My wife will have final say on the screen size, but my confusion is about selecting the screen reflectiviy. The best "calculator" that I can find is on ProjectorCentral. It assumes some things about the HD81, but doesn't say what those assumptions are.

Questions: the 1400 lumens quoted for the HD81 are with the lamp in "bright" mode, or normal mode? With the iris fully open? (in other words, if the result is too bright, I can always stop down the lens?) Is the 1400 assuming normal calibration, i.e. brightness and contrast not all the way up?

The screen I have now is 1.3 gain, and even with the iris closed down, it's still pretty bright.

I guess the real question is, Should I get a 1.0 or 0.8 reflectivity screen? Again, I'll use either the 92" or 108" diagonal Da-Lite, Da-Mat or HC Da-Mat.

Thanks, all advice and reference appreciated.

-d-

zelmo,

I have used a 120" diagonal 4x3 DaLite Cinemavision 1.3 gain screen with my last 3 CRT projectors. With this unit, I find the whites are too bright for dark theater use which is the way I iprefer to watch (every light is off and the only light is the scatter off the screen and the white ceiling). In the daytime, it is great. That said, I have a lot of problem seeing black shadows even with the high gain screen. If I were to buy a new screen, it would be a 1.0 that is washable[U]---THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR--- It is very difficult seeing material in the dark areas because of the bright white. However, the bright whites are not so bright that you lose detail in those white areas ( normally the reason one turns down the picture or contrast). Anyway, my choice for you and me if I buy a new properly sized 16x9 screen is a 96" wide, 1.0 gain screen. Probably the DaMat screen.

Qustion: I do not like the black level I see for the letterboxing black above nd below the picture on a 2.35:1 image. I would think that OPTOMA could provide a black like that which occurs in the area outside of fthe 16x9 area when a 2.35:1 image is projected on my 4x3 screen. With my CRT's, I could adjust the blanking to give me a nicely masked 2.35, 2.40 or whatever image. Anyy ideas on how to make that black mask darker?

Mine is now 4" from the metal bottom that has a small vent opening in it. I believe this opening acts as a source of air rather than a vent. The 10 cm requirement is the nominal free air spacing that most manufacturers require when part of the cabinet is designed to act as a heat conductor. I believe that is the case here. I also believe that going below 4" might be detrimental to the projector's health. Except for a few class A amps from the early '80's, I have never encountered a hotter surface than the bottom of the projector.
Thanks for the explanation Art. I am going to use an infrared sensor to measure the temperature of the projector casing closest to the ceiling.

I think I mentioned once before that I used a thermocouple inserted into the exhaust vent of the HD81 to measure approximately 138 degrees on high fan and 155 on low fan with an ambient air temp of around 68 (my theater is in a basement). These are pretty typical temperature ranges based on measurements taken from my last 3 DLP projectors.

Questions: the 1400 lumens quoted for the HD81 are with the lamp in "bright" mode, or normal mode? With the iris fully open? (in other words, if the result is too bright, I can always stop down the lens?) Is the 1400 assuming normal calibration, i.e. brightness and contrast not all the way up?
You can tone down the HD81 by going to econo mode on the lamp and stepping down the iris. You could further dim the image using a Neutral Density filter that some folks use to enhance black levels. I would guess 1400 lumens is at max power. The nice thing about starting with a bright projector is that you have room to increase the brightness as the bulb dims.

I'm just trying to get the hd81 to the minimum of recomended inches from the ceiling (5" I believe is what the manual says) to maximize my screen height.


weatherby, I'm waiting until the last minute. The way I see it, prices will be lower and the firmware will be well enough along - who knows, with delays on your house the hd82 may arrive with a lens shift and a worthy price! :)

Also, I called Optoma today about a question I had directed towards the Gennum VXP scaler. I wanted to know if it was rack mountable.

It apparantly is, but they hadn't tried it yet - there were parts to do it with the Gennum (really strange that they'd say that). Apparantly it'd be 19" wide compatible. Anyone know if it'd be would it be 2U or 1U?


It’s going to be 2 R/U tall. We made a template to send to M.A. The top & bottom are straight but the sides are radius’ed. It has a drop-down panel that will need about a ½ in of free travel yet to be determined.

Mine is now 4" from the metal bottom that has a small vent opening in it. I believe this opening acts as a source of air rather than a vent. The 10 cm requirement is the nominal free air spacing that most manufacturers require when part of the cabinet is designed to act as a heat conductor. I believe that is the case here. I also believe that going below 4" might be detrimental to the projector's health. Except for a few class A amps from the early '80's, I have never encountered a hotter surface than the bottom of the projector.

Art, Sorry to be so dense, but want to make sure I understand this. So the bottom of the pj is ~4" from the ceiling, is that what you are saying? So does this put the center of the lens at ~ 6" or 7" from the ceiling? (The reason this is the relevant parameter is that this is what must be added to the 36% offset to give the minimum 'recommended' distance from the ceiling to the top of the screen.)

"You make a good point about the HD81 VP possibly being useless without the projector"

In the same vain the projector wouldn't be much use without the scaler :)

Art is right about the case acting as a heat sink. The underside (the part closest to the ceiling) gets around 140 degrees where the bulb is located. The rest of the case is in the 90s. So I now understand the reason for the 4" space between the ceiling and the projector.

Still my question (sorry to be stubborn!): so how far, then, is the center of the lens from the ceiling? (Puhleez!)

The centre of the lens is roughly 3" from the bottom of the case. They want another 10cm beyond that, so the center of the lens would be roughly 7" from the ceiling.

millerwill,

Sorry for not getting back to you, I was watching the evening shows on my HD81. Good night last night. Software must have decided to take pity on me. Whole evening was a very pleasant viewing experience.

On my setup, the RPAU with LST100 kit, no extension legs, the lens is 6.25" from the ceiling.

Hi Bill: The center of my lens is 6" from the ceiling.

Kevin and others who may be in the same position,

I just called Progressive Labs the makers of the CA-1 that I own and the CA-6x that Kevin uses. I called to find out if there might be some newer software available so that I might set up the color temp and gray scale on the HD81 with my CA-1. The guy who makes them answered and told me that my unit is worthless for setting up DLP's. Apparently the CA-6x that is offered at the WEB site has been superceded with a newer model. He said that he prepares a file of the sensor's response to different sources, CRT, DLP, LCoS, etc. He never created such files for DLP's with the CA-1 sensor. Apparently, he sets up a file for different projectors and screens which he develops through personal testing. What a disappointment. I thought I owned a universal colorimeter that was absolutely correct by referencing reference sources at reference temperatures. Oh well... There goes another $1,500.00 down the drain. If anyone is interested, he did offer to sell me for $1,000.00, some CA-6x units that are "left over" in a drawer. Apparently these will do DLP. It sounds like you may be OK Kevin but I would check anyway. I've recommended his products to a lot of guys like myself who like to see things set up correctly with traceable referennces. I'm not sure from what he said that these devices are truly accurate with traceability to NTIS.

Scott, Kevin, Art: Many thanks (and a very consistent set of results!) Bill

Also, I called Optoma today about a question I had directed towards the Gennum VXP scaler. I wanted to know if it was rack mountable.

I would advise being careful about heat dissipation if you rack mount the scaler. The Gennum puts out a fair mount of heat. When I first got the HT81, I put the scaler on a shelf in my equipment cabinet. The scaler is not very tall, so there was a lot of air space above it. Both the front and back of the cabinet are open. My receiver was on the shelf below it. After I had been using the projector for a couple hours, it would spontaneously power off. If I powered it back on, it would fail again after about a minute. Once I allowed things to cool down for a while, it would work again. The projector is mounted the recommended distance from the ceiling, so I checked out the scaler. It was quite warm. I took it out of the cabinet and put it on top of the cabinet instead. It has been more than a month since I removed it from the cabinet and I have not had a single spontaneous power off.

Joe

Joe,

While I have observed considerable heat at the sides and top/bottom of the projector, I can honestly say that the scaler does not even feel warm to the touch. I have it mounted on blocks to allow and inch of air space between the top and bottom and the next pices of gear. If it were mine, I would have it checked. I do not believe they run so hot as to shut off. On at least 2 occasions, I have had the projector go to a blue screen. This happened without a loss in connection integrity. It required an unplug/replug to get control again. Also, on 4 occasions the remote has just stopped functioning. Lights stop turning on...totally dead. I pull the batteries and reinstall them...everything works normally. Never had a remote lock up before. No, it is not a bad battery contact or low batteries. I had fresh batteries in the remote

Joe,

While I have observed considerable heat at the sides and top/bottom of the projector, I can honestly say that the scaler does not even feel warm to the touch.

That's interesting. The scaler is nowhere near the same league as the projector for heat production, but after mine has been running for a couple of hours, the housing definitely feels warm. I'm not at home right now to check, but if memory serves me correctly, it is the bottom of the housing that feels the warmest.

Am I the only one whose scaler gets warm after a couple hours use?

Thanks

Joe

That's interesting. The scaler is nowhere near the same league as the projector for heat production, but after mine has been running for a couple of hours, the housing definitely feels warm. I'm not at home right now to check, but if memory serves me correctly, it is the bottom of the housing that feels the warmest.

Am I the only one whose scaler gets warm after a couple hours use?

Thanks

Joe

Well, I have the scaler on top of a box and the projector on top of the scaler. I have never taken the time to feel the heat but I have had no issues.

Joe

Jason Turk just posted some measurements of the BenQ W10000 1080p DLP. The lumen output is amazingly anemic, especially compared to the HD81. Makes you realize how good the HD81 really is in this regard.

Jason Turk just posted some measurements of the BenQ W10000 1080p DLP. The lumen output is amazingly anemic, especially compared to the HD81. Makes you realize how good the HD81 really is in this regard.

100% agreed.

Yes, it's got me (and perhaps many of us) thinking hard again about how I can fit it into my room! (And also looking at the Mits 5000, and waiting for the JVC--sure hope it doesn't also disappoint.)

The funny thing, especially after my "rant" about it, is that after reading the preliminary results of the W10000 I'm back considering the HD81 now...

If they would just come up with a decent firmware update. Are there any C07 beta tester around? What has changed - what is C07 "supposed to do/add"? Any updated feature list and change log available. Tom, Kevin? Thank you.

The funny thing is that after all my complaints, ever since I got things in the ballpark (thanks to Kevin's posted settings) and stopped trying to tweak, I am just LOVING this projector. It is performing flawlessly.

I am eagerly awaiting the C07 firmware release, primarily for the promised 1080i 60->48Hz capability to eliminate the minor judder on HD-DVD.

Otherwise, I'm definitely in home theater nirvana. :)


-Dave

Rob Tomlin, TheLion...
Where can I find Kevin's prelims on the W10000?
Thanks

dknight,
Same here. Wish I had C05 at least.

As far as I know C07 is not yet out but expect it at any time.

Like Dave, I've stopped tweaking and just enjoy watching. I'm continually amazed at how good standard def DVDs look on this projector -- it is like watching them for the first time with new detail and information. I'm starting to think this may be one of the unsung advantages of the HD81, which I attribute to the Gennum processor (it took me a while to find the best settings for SD DVDs and was too busy only watching HD that I didn't initially focus on this aspect).

I watched an HD-DVD the other night (Charlie & The Chocolate Factory) and then put in Star Wars IV (the first Star Wars). Usually, I've been disappointed when going from HD-DVD to SD DVDs, but Star Wars just looked so good that there was no disappointment at all.

it took me a while to find the best settings for SD DVDs
Kevin - would you mind sharing those settings with us. I've been tweaking for SD-DVDs for about a week now and haven't been a seemingly satisfied as you are.

Kevin - would you mind sharing those settings with us. I've been tweaking for SD-DVDs for about a week now and haven't been a seemingly satisfied as you are.

I am guessing that Kevin is using the component inputs as I am. I think a couple of pages back he posted his settings.

Joe

My component settings are at Post No. 2425.

I was watching using upconverted 1080i via HDMI from the Toshiba HD-A1. The biggest improvement came from changing the Toshiba to output via component at 480i. It is a hassle to make the change each time I switch from HD-DVD to SD DVD, but it is worth it.

By the way Joe -- your theater is anything but average!

My component settings are at Post No. 2425.

I was watching using upconverted 1080i via HDMI from the Toshiba HD-A1. The biggest improvement came from changing the Toshiba to output via component at 480i. It is a hassle to make the change each time I switch from HD-DVD to SD DVD, but it is worth it.

By the way Joe -- your theater is anything but average!

Lol, Thanks Kevin. But it is ME that is average ;)

Joe

The funny thing is that after all my complaints, ever since I got things in the ballpark (thanks to Kevin's posted settings) and stopped trying to tweak, I am just LOVING this projector. It is performing flawlessly.

I am eagerly awaiting the C07 firmware release, primarily for the promised 1080i 60->48Hz capability to eliminate the minor judder on HD-DVD.

Otherwise, I'm definitely in home theater nirvana. :)


-Dave

Dave, is this 60->48Hz capability really promised for C07, or just vaguely announced? THIS is certainly a feature that has all the potential to convince me...

Dave, is this 60->48Hz capability really promised for C07, or just vaguely announced? THIS is certainly a feature that has all the potential to convince me...
Wing told me over a month ago they were working on it and it would be in a future firmware release. Whether it turns up in this release remains to be seen....

-Dave

Wing told me over a month ago they were working on it and it would be in a future firmware release. Whether it turns up in this release remains to be seen....

-Dave

Where is Wing when we need him :p

Dave, are you going to be one of the beta tester for C07? Thanks.

He's around I talked to him early in the week about the firmware. He just got the C07 in then and needed to look it over. Then He'll forward it to me and I'll pass it on to the beta testors. Once things go smooth for them, then the online access will start.

He's around I talked to him early in the week about the firmware. He just got the C07 in then and needed to look it over. Then He'll forward it to me and I'll pass it on to the beta testors. Once things go smooth for them, then the online access will start.

Thank you very much Tom, good to hear. When will you be in a position to talk about specific fixes/change logs/added features of C07? Will it include the "promised" 60i->24p update? Would you mind talking Wing into adding 1080p/50Hz HDMI input capability ;) - as I mentioned: Missing this "feature" in the European market is like releasing a projector in the US that doesn't support 60Hz input at its native resolution - WHY would anybody do that? Thank you!

To HD81 owners:

I'm going to buy the HD81, and was wondering,

1. I need a 35 feet RS232 cable. Should the ends be one Male and one Female?
2. Will the Peerless PRS-UNV Universal Ceiling Mount work?

Thanks

Chuong

Well, with the info re the BenQ W10000 rolling out, it's becoming clear that if I want a 1080p dlp pj by this spring, the HD81 looks like its the only possibility. They are all long throw (min throw ratio ~ 1.8), and for me this means a ceiling mounting for it--and this rules out a HighPower screen, which means I need a very BRIGHT pj, which rules out the BenQ, Sharp, etc. (and I'm not going above $10K). (Maybe Joe Kane and Samsung will come to the rescue!)

The only outstanding 'issue' that I haven't been able to resolve re the HD81 is its rather loud noise, which has already been thoroughly discussed. Since I'm not going to be buying until this spring, at the earliest, I hope to have the chance to see some HD81's in actual setups to get a better feeling for whether this will be a problem for me or not. It may just be the price that one has to pay (or else wait another year for the next round of products--not a pleasant thought).

I have to qualify my post above (as usual!). In 'leafing through' the forum I got reminded of the Sim2 D80, their 'budget' 1-chip 1080p dlp (~$10K). As best I can tell, its min throw ration is 1.5--much better than the others. Haven't been able to find anything about its brightness, though. But with this short throw, I might be able to use a HP screen and deal with ~500 lumens. Reports of its PQ are very good.

Both ends are female. Look at post no. 2196 in this thread for instructions on how to wire in the serial cable between 35 feet of CAT-5 cable.

Hi Kevin,

Thank you for your response. I have read most of your posts, and they influenced me to buy this projector. I have the room size and 10ft ceiling to install a 10' diag. 16:9 screen. The bottom of the screen just barely cleared my center speaker -which is 30" high. Due to the fan noise, I would have to build a hush box because the PJ would be right above my head.

Thanks for your description of modifying the factory RS232 cable. However, I will just buy a new 35ft RS-232 cable, since they are cheap.

Just want to confirm.

I should purchase a RS232 cable with Both ends Female, correct? Since the PJ and Video box are both Male -I'm assuming this since I don't have a PJ, yet.

Thanks again for all your great posts.

Chuong

I mention the CAT-5 option because running an RS232 serial cable through an existing installation can be a problem because the connectors are so big. Yes, you want both ends to be female. I'm glad you found the posts helpful.

Kevin,

I was under the impression that you would be reviewing C07 this week. Perhaps I am mistaken. Did Optoma fail to get it out? Is there a chance that we may see a downloadable upgrade path this year? How about TzunLin? Isn't he supposed to be making this model a success? How about it OPTOMA reps, when will us C04 owners get some satisfaction?

I'm anxiously awaiting C07. If the delay is because they are still tweaking the firmware, then I don't mind waiting a little longer.

It seems to me there are two issues. One has to do with tweaking C07 to provide as much benefit as possible. The other is creating a website where owners can download existing and future versions of the software. Seems like the latter could proceed at a far more rapid rate than the first. That is of course unless OPTOMA has found a glitch in the existing software that is in the VXD/HD81. Perhaps it is does not upgrade as easily as we would hope. God Forbid!!!and we wind up having to return the works to OPTOMA.

couple more technical questions having to do with mounting....

With the RPA-U and LSB-100 kit, how far from the front of plate connecting to the ceiling is the projector's lens located. Also, how far from the back of the plate is the rear of the projector. I'm not sure if the chief RPA-U (with LSB-100 kit) is denoted as a 3rd party ceiling mount and therefore wasn't sure if the manual's depictions of the mount and projector dimensions were correct for the RPA-U.

I think we've established that the middle of the lens is 3" below the bottom cover of a ceiling mounted projector, however what are these other measurements.

I'm trying to have a mount almost perfectly placed for an anamorphic setup on the ceiling before ordering and mounting the projector later and I'd like to avoid surprises.

Any help would be awesome, I'm sure not just for me, but anyone considering the HD81.

wcaughey,

One has considerable latitude in the fore and aft location of the projector with the RPAU mount. Because it is a 3 hole projector, one uses only 3 of the 4 legs supplied dwith the RPAU. In so doing one can move the projector along the optical plain almost 2" either way from the geometric center of the three holes. In fact one can displace it laterally almost an inch either way using with the legs. I understand your need for accuracy but having sweat blood to make sure mine would fit, I would counsel you to worry about giving yourself sufficient lateral movement. Mine wound up almost 2" to the left of the optical centerline as you look at it from the front. i have no explanation for this and I assure you that my geometry, judging by the lack of Keystone or skew, is close to ideal. I wound up using up all but 1/4" of the travel allowed by the LS100 kit.

Does anyone have the Pronto ccf codes for the HD81 remote? The ones for the HD72 don't do anything at all.

Thanks,

-doug-

PS, I know I can use the Learn function, just looking for a quicker way out.

I believe you should be 21.72" (60x0.362) above the screen. Not 25".

Chuong

The HD81 may have an unusual or unique protocol for remote codes. I've tried to "teach" the codes to one of my many universal remotes without success, but I'm going to keep trying.

Here are my settings for HDMI with the Toshiba HD-A1 DVD player on a 110" diagonal screen with a 1.4 gain. Your mileage may vary, buyer beware, don't try this at home, and all other such warnings apply:

Pedestal Level: DVI-PC

Iris: fixed at 8-4 depending on source material (sometimes I use auto iris for fun and ignore the pumping and clicking)

Contrast 3

Brightness 0-2 (depending on the source material)

Tint -6

Gamma +2 to +5 (depending on source material; e.g., I thought HD-DVD Bourne Supremecy needed +5)

User Mode: TV

RGB Contrast
R = 4
G = -11
B = -9

RGB Brightness
R = 0
G = -1
B = 0

Dear Kevin,

after looking at your "recommended" settings I would like to start discussing probably the biggest grief I had during my session with the HD81 - I (and my ISF certified dealer for that matter...) was just not able to get even a half-decent level of shadow details with the HD81. That was with HTPC/HDMI input. Shadow details were never lacking or an issue with my HTPC - any projector connected to it, including the Pearl during my HD81 shootout, always give the expected quality in shadow details - just the HD81 refused to cooporate :rolleyes:

Looking at your settings I begin to understand why this is the case. I hope we agree that using DVI-PC as pedestal level (0-255) together with video sources like the Toshiba HD-A1 is "wrong" to begin with - The natural setting is DVI-Video (levels 16-235). Problem is that if you choose the actually correct DVI-Video setting it is almost impossible to set the right brightness/contrast levels without cranking the brightness control all the way up - my experiences are very simular to this review: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/906optomahd81/

So in order to fix the "broken" (it sure doesn't work as it is supposed to) pedestal control on the HD81 you choose DVI-PC. Good thinking, great band-aid BUT what happens if you have an input device with 0-255 levels like a HTPC which would naturally require the DVI-PC setting to begin with??? Which band-aid to use for that? I hope you see the problem. It is nice that you came up with a simple "bug-fix"/work-around/band-aid for the all wrong programming in the HD81 pedestal level setting - but if you have a DVI-PC device there is no way to go. And I hope you will agree with me (as you are ISF certified and all) that setting an "incorrect" pedestal level on purpose just to work around a severe "malfunction" of the HD81 is a less than optimal approach - especially considering that the pedestal control has influence on other factors like the gamma curve as well!

That leads us to the next subject - gamma curve. What is wrong with the gamma curve presets of the HD81? No matter which one I choose I couldn't get just half-decent shadow details (using the HTPC and the DVI-PC setting...). Looking at your settings I begin to understand why. You not only choose the flattest gamma curve ("TV", thats well below Gamma 2.0 according to TzungILin) but also "increase" (= making the curve even flatter) the gamma manually from there (Gamma +2 to +5) -> that should result in a VERY flat gamma curve of even below Gamma 1.8 ("standard" gamma is 2.2, "CRT" gamma (for bat caves...) is ~ 2.4). Did you actually measure the gamma value you are getting with these settings? Please allow me to assume that you choose this "odd"/unordinary (I will go as far as calling it WRONG to choose a "TV" <2.0 gamma curve for home theater purposes. The "TV" gamma curve is for watching in high ambient light scenarios) setting because with any of the logical/correct gamma choices (like standard or film) you are not getting satisfactory results (lacking/non-existing shadow details). If I remember it correctly all the participants of your HD81/Pearl shootout claimed that even with the HD81 at your settings (TV gamma, +2 to +5 additional gamma) the Pearl (which I assume used the standard gamma setting which gives GREAT shadow details IMO) has an edge in shadow details. :rolleyes:

So Kevin, Kudos to you for coming up with a smart and quick band-aid/fix for the "broken" gamma presets of the HD81 - BUT the problem is the same as above. While you can fix the gamma for your specific setup (using the flattest gamma curve you can get) what would you do if you need a flat gamma curve to begin with (setup with lots of ambient light)??? You have no way to go from there. You cannot crank the gamma any higher than you already did... - and

Summary: In order to get proper brightness/contrast levels you have to choose an "incorrect" pedestal setting. In order to get half-decent shadow details you have to choose in "incorrect" gamma curve on purpose. I trust you that you get decent results with all these band-aids - but that works for your HT setup with total light control and 16-235 input devices. There is no way to go from there...

So Optoma, Wing, TzungILin - with all due respect - why do you rely on smart users like Kevin to come up with work-arounds/bug-fixes/band-aids for everything thats broken with the HD81? I mean how hard can it be to get the most basic things like the pedestal level (with related brightness/contrast controls) and gamma curves right? I really don't want this to be a "rant" but I think somebody here has to "step you on the toes" and push things in order that you 1) admit that at its current state an awfull lot and even some very basic things are not working probably/as intended with HD81 and 2) listen carefully to your customers and target group and make sure that Optoma as a company and the market place remembers the HD81 "as a good thing". I'm talking about customer satisfaction here and this is not the equal of customers being satisfied because a) they don't know better or b) they know particularly well and are able to work-around "everything" that's broken ;) I'm talking about providing a thorough firmware update (better make it an upGRADE :rolleyes: hoping for magical C07) that appeases current owners and attracts potential future users - and yes, believe it or not - that includes me... I'm talking about making things right for the sake of your customers and Optomas image as a company.

Things to consider:

- the implementation of the so called "auto/dynamic iris" is a disgrace. It harms Optoma/HD81 much more than it can be considered a useful feature.

- Not providing 1080p/50Hz HDMI input in the European market is an oversight to put it polite!

- Not using Gennums capability to provide proper inverse telecine/framerate conversion to 24p for 60i signals forces people to buy a SECOND video processor/scaler just to enable judderfree playback without 3:2 pulldown with all film based sources like movies on HD-DVD. What good is your 24p/48p input/display capability (thanks for this GREAT feature btw) if there are NO sources that provide a 24p signal??? You have a Gennum VXP processor at your disposal - use it.

- please "rethink" the pedestal and gamma controls -> something went awfully wrong there!

- Make the HD81 remember and stick to HDMI input specific settings...

to be continued ...

Thank you very much.

And Kevin, whats your take on the subject at hand?

Lion,

Your reults agree with mine. While you did not mention it, the noise coming from these machines is much higher than specified by OPTOMA. Nothing on this machine works as advertised. At this level, Optoma better resolve these issues either with new software or replacement machines. A recall would be appropriate considering the potential negative backlash that will be a certainty when the word hits the magazines about how Optoma has produced a piece of gear that just plain fails to operate as advertised. I am so disappointed with this purchase. I have nowhere to go for help because Optoma does not seem to understand how to update and fix these machines.

From my point of vue and using the limited test equipment I own.

I find the noise at low power to be intolerable.

One can not see shadow detail unless you crank up the brightness and/or gamma up so high that the colors are washed out.

Every time I switch source material, it takes 10 minutes or more to achieve a picture that is watchable. Even so, this represents a compromise...not the reason I upgraded from my CRT FP. Although nowhere near as bright and certainly not as sharp, I could see all the shadow detail.

Why haven't we heard from Optoma? When will we get an update. Does Optoma not care about its reputation. The bad publicity from this disaster could affect Optoma's future in the American market.

Lion,


Why haven't we heard from Optoma? When will we get an update. Does Optoma not care about its reputation. The bad publicity from this disaster could affect Optoma's future in the American market.

So, how can we hit Optoma hard on this? I have just taken delivery of my HD81, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately!) my theater is several weeks behind schedule.

I have been following this thread with great interest, of course, and I just hope a lot of fixes will have been implemented by the time we are ready to install.

I think it is a disgrace that no one from Optoma is talking to us. Where are all those guys who were only too pleased to come on to the AVS forum and tell us all about this wonderful new PJ they were bringing to the market place? Now that problems galore are surfacing, they have seemingly submerged in to deep waters! TzungILin, how about it? Where are you and what are you doing to help your baby grow to be a healthy, all grown up PJ? It looked like a very pretty baby at Cedia, but now it's not looking so great!

Perhaps a little campaign among us could put some heat on Optoma? How about we all start e-mailing the major A/V publications and tell them all about the serious problems you (and me, I suspect) are experiencing, not to mention the lack of response from Optoma, either here on AVS or through personal correspondence? Just be sure to copy Optoma with your correspondence. Let's do battle .... nicely, of course.

Hello, Im new to the forum. I just purchased the H81. I have it temporally setup. Im not able to get and picture to be seen through any of the HDMI inputs. I have pressed the corrisponding buttons on the remote but with no luck. Im using a denon 2910 dvd player.
The component part works great. the dvd has the HCCP codeing for the HDMI. Can anyone give me any sugestions?, Is the H81 HCCP compatible?, nothing found in the liteture.

Also I currently have no screen. I do have an older model (10 year) Draper 1.0 gain that dosnt retract up or down anymore that I was thinking of cutting and mounting to a fixed frame. I this a good sulotion or should I be looking at another option for this type projector.

Earl
A.K.A.
Gasman

Hello, Im new to the forum. I just purchased the H81. I have it temporally setup. Im not able to get and picture to be seen through any of the HDMI inputs. I have pressed the corrisponding buttons on the remote but with no luck. Im using a denon 2910 dvd player.
The component part works great. the dvd has the HCCP codeing for the HDMI. Can anyone give me any sugestions?, Is the H81 HCCP compatible?, nothing found in the liteture.

Also I currently have no screen. I do have an older model (10 year) Draper 1.0 gain that dosnt retract up or down anymore that I was thinking of cutting and mounting to a fixed frame. I this a good sulotion or should I be looking at another option for this type projector.

Earl
A.K.A.
Gasman

Regarding hte no hdmi, you need to install the short looping hdmi cable if you are not using a hdmi capable receiver.

For a screen look at http://www.smxscreen.com (This is what I use)

Joe

Thanks Joe, I will check the the website u sugested .

Also, I forgot to say that I connected the dvd player directly to the h81 processor using the short piece of HDMI wire that can with the projector.
Earl

Thanks Joe, I will check the the website u sugested .

Also, I forgot to say that I connected the dvd player directly to the h81 processor using the short piece of HDMI wire that can with the projector.
Earl

Sorry, to clarify use the 3 inch hdmi cable and loop between from and to receiver connections.

Joe

I always receive prompt email responses from Wing Chung, the director of product engineering and David Hwang, the product manager, with my questions. Wing told me he was getting his first look at CO7 last week as well as comparing anamorphic lenses. I've asked about the HDMI issues and he said that is what CO7 is supposed to address. I have not received an answer as to when we will see firmware upgrades on the Optoma site.

Sound and Vision magazine's review of the HD81 noted the black level issue as far as setup
requiring DVI-PC level vs. DVI-Video to see black detail. They said the fan noise was about average, but that it was loud in high brightness mode. And of course they referenced the
installation inflexibility and lousy DI. The review was pretty positive despite the quirks.

I believe that Optoma cares about the HD81 and that's why they are addressing issues with new firmware, but if it can't be downloaded for those who have taken delivery, then
it's not of much value.

I don't know why we haven't heard from TzungILin, although Wing was on this thread
recently. I hope that CO7 is a step forward and that it is made available to existing owners
very soon. When my HD81 arrives, if it doesn't have CO7, I will bring it to Optoma immediately for upgrade--but I'm lucky because I live nearby.

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

How do we reach Wing Chung and David Hwang? I am eager to address them directly.

How do you find out what firmware version you have, is it posted somewhere on the projector?

Earl

Lion,

Your reults agree with mine. While you did not mention it, the noise coming from these machines is much higher than specified by OPTOMA. Nothing on this machine works as advertised. At this level, Optoma better resolve these issues either with new software or replacement machines. A recall would be appropriate considering the potential negative backlash that will be a certainty when the word hits the magazines about how Optoma has produced a piece of gear that just plain fails to operate as advertised. I am so disappointed with this purchase. I have nowhere to go for help because Optoma does not seem to understand how to update and fix these machines.

From my point of vue and using the limited test equipment I own.

I find the noise at low power to be intolerable.

One can not see shadow detail unless you crank up the brightness and/or gamma up so high that the colors are washed out.

Every time I switch source material, it takes 10 minutes or more to achieve a picture that is watchable. Even so, this represents a compromise...not the reason I upgraded from my CRT FP. Although nowhere near as bright and certainly not as sharp, I could see all the shadow detail.

Why haven't we heard from Optoma? When will we get an update. Does Optoma not care about its reputation. The bad publicity from this disaster could affect Optoma's future in the American market.

Art, I feel with you!

"One can not see shadow detail unless you crank up the brightness and/or gamma up so high that the colors are washed out." - That's what I was talking about. Sure, you can "fix"/band-aid shadow details by choosing DVI-PC pedestal level and crank brightness and gamma all the way up ("TV" setting together with another +2 to +5 manual increments = this will result in a gamma curve south of <1.8 -> totally unacceptable for any light controlled home THEATER setup) BUT that always comes with a flatter picture and less vibrant colors to the point of looking washed out compared to the CORRECT gamma setting of 2.2 (up to 2.4 for bat caves...).

Sorry to repeat myself, but how hard can it be to get the most basic and fundamental controls like pedestal level and gamma curves right :confused:

How about we write a letter to Sound and Vision?

WOW! I Really feel for you guys..

This will with no doubt drive away many buyers.

WOW! I Really feel for you guys..

This will with no doubt drive away many buyers.

It depends. Many of the issues with the HD81 can be corrected with firmware, which they are obviously working on. Potential buyers may very well wait until the new firmware is released to see if these issues are fixed.

Some of the frustration also comes from the fact that we really aren't seeing any feedback from any of the Optoma representatives on this thread.

I think it's important to remember that most of the HD81 owners on this thread seem to be happy with their purchase. In general, people who are unhappy with a product are more likely to post on forums than those who are satisfied.

I would ask, other than MrHifi, who owns an HD81 and wants to return it?

Jeff Regan

"I think it is a disgrace that no one from Optoma is talking to us. "

Just curious, are you talking to them? Have you called their CS?

Some of the frustration also comes from the fact that we really aren't seeing any feedback from any of the Optoma representatives on this thread.

That's the point, Rob. If you use avsForum for your marketing purposes in order to promote a product and build up a momentum for free IMHO you should be so fair and pay some of that back to the community here - by providing feedback and support after launching the promoted product in a questionable and half-baked condition.

I think it's important to remember that most of the HD81 owners on this thread seem to be happy with their purchase. In general, people who are unhappy with a product are more likely to post on forums than those who are satisfied.

I would ask, other than MrHifi, who owns an HD81 and wants to return it?

Jeff Regan

"I'm talking about customer satisfaction here and this is not the equal of customers being satisfied because a) they don't know better or b) they know particularly well and are able to work-around "everything" that's broken" ;)

It depends. Many of the issues with the HD81 can be corrected with firmware, which they are obviously working on. Potential buyers may very well wait until the new firmware is released to see if these issues are fixed.
Indeed. I had the HD81 for one weekend (for testing, hadn't bought it) and while the image quality was quite simply superb, it had plenty of annoying issues. I'm waiting to see what Optoma can do with a firmware upgrade before forking over any money.

Indeed. I had the HD81 for one weekend (for testing, hadn't bought it) and while the image quality was quite simply superb, it had plenty of annoying issues. I'm waiting to see what Optoma can do with a firmware upgrade before forking over any money.

Exactly the same here :)

I get my HD81 today and I'm looking forward to using it. I think it is important to keep the issues in front of Optoma in whatever way we can. To that end I am going to create a list of issues that I have seen and ask Optoma to respond to each one with an acknowlegement of the issue, an interim workaround and suggested time for fix - if possible. I think things like the DI implementation are un-fixable without a recall and new hardware. Similarly the noise level is what it is. The solution there may be to build a hushbox and I have just started working with Dave Beatty to come up with a Whisper Flow design. So here is the list I have pulled together from comments made on this forum, mostly be The Lion, MrHifi and Kevin. Maybe those with connections at Optoma like Guitarman can help get some real responses? In the meantime I would appreciate any comments on the list to make it more accurate and complete. I don't have a huge amount of experience with this subject.

GROUP A - Can't be firmware fixed and need a workaround

1. Implentation of DI is not subtle and is noisy
2. General noise levels are too high
3. Lens shift and offset

GROUP B - Firmware may resolve these

1. Pedestal and gamma controls
2. inverse telecine/framerate conversion to 24p for 60i signals
3. 1080p/50Hz HDMI input for European market
4. Retaining HDMI settings
5. Ability for user to download and update software
6. Remote control codes so equipment can be operated via 3rd party remotes

^^ I think you should add "Surprisingly visible rainbows" to Group B.

Are rainbows an individual experience that is out of the hands of Optoma? Is that something that is an issue for TI possibly but just a part of the DLP technology?

Are rainbows an individual experience that is out of the hands of Optoma? Is that something that is an issue for TI possibly but just a part of the DLP technology?

I agree. IMO, rainbows would be out of the scope for Optoma to resolve.

Joe

I agree. IMO, rainbows would be out of the scope for Optoma to resolve.
I wouldn't be quite so sure. A firmware upgrade to my H78 lessened the visibility of rainbows to a level where I could view two entire movies without any adverse effects.

I'm hypersensitive to rainbows, unfortunately, and viewing Sahara (from HD DVD) on the HD81 gave me the dreaded "eyeballs under pressure" feeling within minutes. The movie starts with a night scene and I could see rainbows flashing all over the place. This came as quite a surprise after H78. I could also see rainbows during daytime scenes while moving my eyes around naturally, i.e. following the action and not trying to see rainbows intentionally.

Jeff,

You make me sound like an irrational idiot. Just because I happen to understand the technical shortcomings of this projector/scaler and feel that Optoma owes its american market the decency to provide us with a evice that works as advertised, should not be a reaon to single me out. I believe that anyone who has a projector with C04 is in the same frame of mind.

I would dask whether anyone who took delivery with C04 has receivedd an upgrade to C05 or higher from OPTOMA.

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the Sharp 20K to the HD81? I'm curious what advantages each has over the other.

I think it's important to remember that most of the HD81 owners on this thread seem to be happy with their purchase. In general, people who are unhappy with a product are more likely to post on forums than those who are satisfied.

I would ask, other than MrHifi, who owns an HD81 and wants to return it?

In my three weeks with the HD81, I agree with the negative aspects that MrHifi and TheLion have mentioned. I don't use an HTPC and recommend my customers to stay away from them (mostly because I can't keep their prying hands off of them) - so I don't have the HTPC issues TheLion speaks about. However, I would not return the HD81 for the sole reason that nothing is better under $7,000.

Nothing is going to give you an image as vibrant and clear on a screen >100" wide in this price range. Less than 100" wide, you might want to look at the Pearl.

That said - there is a huge opening for a company to come in with a projector near this price point, with decent shadow detail, quieter and (my personal pet peeve) pre-ISF calibrated.

I have been informed that Knoll should be doing all the above for $9,999 in February (will the above fixes be worth the 30% premium?). And February is AFTER football season is over, so my recommendation today is get the HD81 and enjoy it.

Jeff,

You make me sound like an irrational idiot. Just because I happen to understand the technical shortcomings of this projector/scaler and feel that Optoma owes its american market the decency to provide us with a evice that works as advertised, should not be a reaon to single me out. I believe that anyone who has a projector with C04 is in the same frame of mind.

I would dask whether anyone who took delivery with C04 has receivedd an upgrade to C05 or higher from OPTOMA.

Art,

Remeber when you shared with me your views of my use of the word calibration? You did it in a very nice way and I took no offense. In the same light, I would like to respond to you.

Your messages consistently come across overly negative. To the point that I have begun to discount them as trivial rantings from a negative individual. Through your messages, correct or not, I have garnered the opinion that you are an individual that looks at the negative in the world and that becomes your primary focus.

As I took yours, please take this in the light of trying to be beneficial. But unless any of us know you personally, we have to develop our opinions from your messages.

On another note, I still am running C04 and am extremely happy with my viewing. Yes, I am looking forward to the firmware upgrades for improvements but I am enjoying the projector as it is. I also have turned off the iris as I see no good use for it.

Joe

Art,

I most certainly believe you know what you're doing and that your issues with the HD81 are real. You were the first to bring up the HDMI issues, and these have been confirmed by others, including Optoma. But the fact is, on this thread, you are the only owner who is very unhappy with the product, as is your right. Of course, there are probably a very small
number of owners who frequent this forum with HD81's and fewer still with CO4.

If I were suffering the HDMI/lost settings issues you have, I would use component as a stop gap and would be trying to work directly with Optoma CS. I feel like too many folks
on this forum expect to get customer service satisfaction through this forum. This is not
the way manufacturers normally conduct CS, in my experience.

When I demoed an HD81 at Optoma, the unit was supposedly right out of the box with
three hours on the bulb. Black detail was very good, the processor was switched between
DVHS and Toshiba HD DVD several times, with the Toshiba playing SD and HD DVD's, all without any issues. No tweaks were done between sources.

Either the sources were connected via component (most likely for DVHS)and not HDMI or CO5 already makes a difference in this regard over CO4.

As I've said before, Optoma needs to get the new firmware up on their site ASAP. If they
don't have any idea when this will happen, unfortunately, Art, you may need to send the
HD81 and processor to Optoma--which is a huge hassle, I know.

Jeff Regan

jmorris,

You may be right. I may look at the "negative in the world" and let it become my primary focus." I am not a manufacturer, manufacturer's representative, retailer or reviewer being paid by a magazine to prepare positive sounding copy in order to sell more units of the product. I am a consumer and a hobbyist who enjoys the luxury of being able to understand the technical shortcomings of electronic devices. When I see a problem that makes a device fail to meet not only its advertised specifications such as noise level, but also causes the device to be unusable as delivered without major work-arounds that are far from intuitive and compromise an aspect of performance, e.g. the brightness/gamma/DVI-PC level setting alternatives that are necessary if one expects to see any detail in the darker areas of the field, I report them. [Sorry for the outrageously long sentence].

I apologize to you and to the others on this board who may be offended by my offerings. In the future I will try to listen and speak only when spoken to. My fight is with OPTOMA, not with anyone on this board. I am grateful for the help I have received from knowledgeable members of this board.

Jeff...I must emphasize that I am still waiting for a response from OPTOMA that will make my projector operate correctly. I have contacted OPTOMA and their advice regarding upgrade was wrong. Because of this I have not sent the device to OPTOMA for repair and I am waiting for them to sort out the upgrade protocol and develop a properly working version of the firmware.

I always receive prompt email responses from Wing Chung, the director of product engineering and David Hwang, the product manager, with my questions. Wing told me he was getting his first look at CO7 last week as well as comparing anamorphic lenses. I've asked about the HDMI issues and he said that is what CO7 is supposed to address. I have not received an answer as to when we will see firmware upgrades on the Optoma site.

Sound and Vision magazine's review of the HD81 noted the black level issue as far as setup
requiring DVI-PC level vs. DVI-Video to see black detail. They said the fan noise was about average, but that it was loud in high brightness mode. And of course they referenced the
installation inflexibility and lousy DI. The review was pretty positive despite the quirks.

I believe that Optoma cares about the HD81 and that's why they are addressing issues with new firmware, but if it can't be downloaded for those who have taken delivery, then
it's not of much value.

I don't know why we haven't heard from TzungILin, although Wing was on this thread
recently. I hope that CO7 is a step forward and that it is made available to existing owners
very soon. When my HD81 arrives, if it doesn't have CO7, I will bring it to Optoma immediately for upgrade--but I'm lucky because I live nearby.

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

You are indeed fortunate to live close to Optoma and I suspect that is why you receive responses more readily from Wing, etc. They know you and are probably eager to reply so that you don't come knocking at the door every day!

I still believe that someone, Wing or whomever, should take five minutes out of their day and get on this forum and tell us the real story, i:e, what are they doing to set things right and how they will implement that. Why are we all kept in the dark about what (upcoming) firmware will address? Will firmware updates be readily available for end user's to update at home? Will the DI issue be resolved and, if so, can existing owner's expect a free upgrade?

What is the question now, regarding the comparison of anamorphic lenses? At Cedia we were all assured that the Schneider lens would be shipping within four weeks and now they are doing comparison tests! What's that all about?

Optoma are digging a huge hole for themselves and they will disappear without a trace if they don't get their act together .... SOON!

Jeff. As you are friendly with these guys, could you not ask them to get on this forum and give us some hope? I would address you as Sir Jeff if you can pull that off!

Cheers!

"I think it is a disgrace that no one from Optoma is talking to us. "

Just curious, are you talking to them? Have you called their CS?

Yes! I get put on hold. After about two minutes the line drops. I will try again this week. Also, e-mails are not responded to.

Yes! I get put on hold. After about two minutes the line drops. I will try again this week. Also, e-mails are not responded to.
I have never received a response to an email inquiry at Optoma - going back over a year.

Put in all the Serial # information and your personal information and it is sent to a black hole. Do NOT use email at the Optoma site if you want a response in your lifetime - get on the phone.

FWIW,

I emailed Wing Chug and received the following email.

Dear Sir,

<"I am sorry that our HD81 is causing you all the troubles.

Our customer service will contact you to arrange for a upgrade of firmware to fix the issue that caused memory setting lost.

Regards.">



Seems like they have fixed the HDMI memory issue in C05 or maybe C06. I will let you know what happens.

FWIW,
Seems like they have fixed the HDMI memory issue in C05 or maybe C06. I will let you know what happens.

Art,

According to Optoma, CO7 is designed to address HDMI issues. This is the firmware
that I would want to have uploaded, assuming it proves to be stable after beta
testing.

I was just told that my HD81 is ready to be shipped to me--it will be interesting to
see how I get on with it. It should have CO6 firmware as delivered.

Jeff Regan

For those considering an anamorphic lens for the HD81, or any other digital projector,
I've been told that a comparison between the new Panamorph UH380 and Schneider, ISCO II and III was done at Optoma and that the Panamorph looked very
good. Very little CA, just a bit softer than Schneider, better than ISCO II and held its own with ISCO III. If the UH380 was representative of normal production models,
I'm pretty excited.

Jeff Regan

Hi Kevin,

I notice that you have a Toshiba A1 HD player. I'm thinking of buying the Panasonic Blu-ray player due to the many movie studios that support Blu-ray.

However, I'm also aware of the currently low quality of Blu-ray movies due to the limited usage of single layer. Don't know when the Blu movies will use dual layer to match the quality of HD movies.

Just curious regarding your thoughts on this topic. I want to buy a 1080p player in the next few weeks, and don't want to wait months. If the Blu movies are of such poor quality then I'll probably buy the Tosh-HD-XA2 when it becomes available in a few weeks.

Also, the current quantity of movies in HD is higher than BD.

Thanks,

Chuong

hi
what is the brigthness with a good CR on the H81 (that is with iris set manually, not automatic as it's slow and very visible i read) ?

thanks

That's the point, Rob. If you use avsForum for your marketing purposes in order to promote a product and build up a momentum for free IMHO you should be so fair and pay some of that back to the community here - by providing feedback and support after launching the promoted product in a questionable and half-baked condition.

Oh, I most definitely agree. I hope you didn't take my post to mean that I disagreed with what you said, because I certainly do not.

Art,

Your messages consistently come across overly negative. To the point that I have begun to discount them as trivial rantings from a negative individual.

I'm a lurker but very interested in the HD-81 for my new construction home theater.

Mr. HiFi: PLEASE keep it up. Your posts are based on facts, you simply pull no punches. As I read this thread I find your posts negative only because of the failings of the HD-81. Rather than simply ragging on Optima it seems you want solutions. So do I. This PJ would be perfect in my situation if Optima can get it together.

I do not discount your posts as trivial rantings from a negative individual. I find them very helpful and look forward to solutions from Optima. I hope you keep the pressure on.

Dupe post...sorry

Warren Pierce is the Customer Service Manager at Optoma Technology Inc.. today, he advised that they are updating to C06 at this time. They have no idea when C07 may be available. I will be sending in my request for an RMA number tomorrow. By the time I get it down, it will be a week or so. Also, all updates must be done by OPTOMA because of a "proprietary loading method" whatever that is. This is not mmeant to be negative, just factual based on what I was told.

Oh, I most definitely agree. I hope you didn't take my post to mean that I disagreed with what you said, because I certainly do not.

I hope you didn't take my post to mean that I take it that you disagreed with what I said, because I certainly do not. ;)

I hope you didn't take my post to mean that I take it that you disagreed with what I said, because I certainly do not. ;)

:D :cool:

Warren Pierce is the Customer Service Manager at Optoma Technology Inc.. today, he advised that they are updating to C06 at this time. They have no idea when C07 may be available. I will be sending in my request for an RMA number tomorrow. By the time I get it down, it will be a week or so. Also, all updates must be done by OPTOMA because of a "proprietary loading method" whatever that is. This is not mmeant to be negative, just factual based on what I was told.

Mr HiFi ... According to Jeff Regan, CO6 is already implemented and CO7 is supposedly now in the works and just about ready for beta tests. As Jeff lives close by to Optoma, and has a rapport there with the engineers (not customer service types who only know what comes up on their computer monitor), I would trust him on that.

Warren Pierce is the Customer Service Manager at Optoma Technology Inc.. today, he advised that they are updating to C06 at this time. They have no idea when C07 may be available. I will be sending in my request for an RMA number tomorrow. By the time I get it down, it will be a week or so. Also, all updates must be done by OPTOMA because of a "proprietary loading method" whatever that is. This is not mmeant to be negative, just factual based on what I was told.


Does this mean we will never ba able to download firmware ourselves?

Tony

Guys are a little impatient, I already told you Wing got C07 and was looking it over plus he is working on cleaning up the website for user download. Hoped for the end of last week but give it some time. In the mean time enjoy the movies. :)

Panamorph UH380 and Schneider, ISCO II and III was done at Optoma and that the Panamorph looked very good. Very little CA, just a bit softer than Schneider

What is the quality of Panamorph UH380 compared to Prismasonic's lenses? I have owned one of Prismasonic's older models and it had so much CA that I wouldn't use it with a 1080p projector.

Warren Pierce is the Customer Service Manager at Optoma Technology Inc.. today, he advised that they are updating to C06 at this time. They have no idea when C07 may be available. I will be sending in my request for an RMA number tomorrow. By the time I get it down, it will be a week or so. Also, all updates must be done by OPTOMA because of a "proprietary loading method" whatever that is. This is not mmeant to be negative, just factual based on what I was told.

Just another note from those of us who read these threads and make purchasing decisions based on what we read here. Thanks to you all. Based on this thread I am expectiing my HD 81 on Wednesday. I do hope it has C06. If so I owe you all.

Mr HiFi was gracious enough give me a demo of his HD 81 last month and that sealed the deal for me. Wow what a picture! I grew up with the first Proximas that were toys when compared to what we have today.

I am very glad to see Optoma stepping up to the chalenge here.

For those considering an anamorphic lens for the HD81, or any other digital projector,
I've been told that a comparison between the new Panamorph UH380 and Schneider, ISCO II and III was done at Optoma and that the Panamorph looked very
good. Very little CA, just a bit softer than Schneider, better than ISCO II and held its own with ISCO III. If the UH380 was representative of normal production models,
I'm pretty excited.

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

The Schneider lens was supposed to be available for $4,000 as an option with the projector. Do you know if it is available as promised? Or are they thinking of offering other lenses now also?

Thanks! :)

Could anyone tell me how to determine what firmware is on my hd81 unit>?

Also I get a clicking noise from the projector during play, every couple of minutes or so, Anyone know what might be causing this?
Earl

MCBRacer,

I am only reporting what I was told by the OPTOMA customer service manager. I specifically asked if CO7 would be available soon. He answered as I described. He went to check before giving me an answer. That pertains to the loading issue also. I gave him ample reasons for not sending my projector and VXD to OPTOMA. He said that sending it in would be the only way to get it upgraded. I hope that there is a downloadable version in the works as guitarman says. It certainly would make my life a lot easier. I will wait until after next weekend to send mine to CA. Actually, i may wait until after Thanksgiving.

Igasman,

The clicking noise comes from the Auto IRIS. There has been a lot of discussion about this in this thread. Many of us have turned the auto Iris off because of the noise. The Firmware version is where the projector info. is I believe. Just work your way through the menu trees and you will find it.

John Keller,

It was a pleasure having John over. At the time I had not mounted the projector on the ceiling. You are welcome any time my friend. John got an earful of the DTS demo record. At the time I was trying to resolve the geometric issues. Those have been worked out successfully. John is building a magnificent home theater. Maybe all the local forum members can all meet at John's house after he gets everything put together. How do you like that John? Is that putting you on the spot to get it perfect?

MCBRacer,

I am only reporting what I was told by the OPTOMA customer service manager. I specifically asked if CO7 would be available soon. He answered as I described. He went to check before giving me an answer. That pertains to the loading issue also. I gave him ample reasons for not sending my projector and VXD to OPTOMA. He said that sending it in would be the only way to get it upgraded. I hope that there is a downloadable version in the works as guitarman says. It certainly would make my life a lot easier. I will wait until after next weekend to send mine to CA. Actually, i may wait until after Thanksgiving.

Igasman,

The clicking noise comes from the Auto IRIS. There has been a lot of discussion about this in this thread. Many of us have turned the auto Iris off because of the noise. The Firmware version is where the projector info. is I believe. Just work your way through the menu trees and you will find it.

John Keller,

It was a pleasure having John over. At the time I had not mounted the projector on the ceiling. You are welcome any time my friend. John got an earful of the DTS demo record. At the time I was trying to resolve the geometric issues. Those have been worked out successfully. John is building a magnificent home theater. Maybe all the local forum members can all meet at John's house after he gets everything put together. How do you like that John? Is that putting you on the spot to get it perfect?

Art,

before sending your unit in I would make a 100% sure that you get a full C06 change log with all the issues solved with this firmware update. Even better yet why not just talk to Tom (guitarman) and apply for the C07 beta test? That way you wouldn't need to send your HD81 in and you get the latest firmware long before even Optoma's CS is (officially) aware of it.

Last night I finally got to see a HD81 in action at a friend's home. Very nice imaging; it reminds me of the Optoma HD72...but more detail is visible.

We had a Toshiba HD-DVD machine connected to the HD81 via HDMI interfacing...and found the playback of HD-DVD discs excruciatingly slow. Has any one else have experienced this same anomaly with the HDMI connectivity?...

-THTS

MCBRacer,

I am only reporting what I was told by the OPTOMA customer service manager. I specifically asked if CO7 would be available soon. He answered as I described. He went to check before giving me an answer. That pertains to the loading issue also. I gave him ample reasons for not sending my projector and VXD to OPTOMA. He said that sending it in would be the only way to get it upgraded. I hope that there is a downloadable version in the works as guitarman says. It certainly would make my life a lot easier. I will wait until after next weekend to send mine to CA. Actually, i may wait until after Thanksgiving.

Igasman,

The clicking noise comes from the Auto IRIS. There has been a lot of discussion about this in this thread. Many of us have turned the auto Iris off because of the noise. The Firmware version is where the projector info. is I believe. Just work your way through the menu trees and you will find it.

John Keller,

It was a pleasure having John over. At the time I had not mounted the projector on the ceiling. You are welcome any time my friend. John got an earful of the DTS demo record. At the time I was trying to resolve the geometric issues. Those have been worked out successfully. John is building a magnificent home theater. Maybe all the local forum members can all meet at John's house after he gets everything put together. How do you like that John? Is that putting you on the spot to get it perfect?

Art, based on the noise levels you mentioned in the past I am wondering if you mentioned that too? I would guess that you have a bearing issue and no firmware is going to resolve that.

Joe

I mentioned the bearing issue but received no comment from the CS manager. It was as if he preferred not to comment. I actually raised the issue once each during two conversations. The CS manager was more interested in makingg sure I filled in the RMA return form correctly than the technical details. Like I said before, he had to ask someone else about the version of the software being installed. He also was quite definite about my not being able to upgrade it myself now or in the future.

I mentioned the bearing issue but received no comment from the CS manager. It was as if he preferred not to comment. I actually raised the issue once each during two conversations. The CS manager was more interested in makingg sure I filled in the RMA return form correctly than the technical details. Like I said before, he had to ask someone else about the version of the software being installed. He also was quite definite about my not being able to upgrade it myself now or in the future.

When the left arm doesn't know what the right is doing...

John Keller,

It was a pleasure having John over. At the time I had not mounted the projector on the ceiling. You are welcome any time my friend. John got an earful of the DTS demo record. At the time I was trying to resolve the geometric issues. Those have been worked out successfully. John is building a magnificent home theater. Maybe all the local forum members can all meet at John's house after he gets everything put together. How do you like that John? Is that putting you on the spot to get it perfect?

Neil,

You bet! Invitation made. This thing is ego driven and I would love the chance to show off the new digs. ETF is now the week before Christmas.

I am just finishing the walls in anticipation of insulation and drywall. Last electrical tests this week, carpet ordered and oh yeah...the chandelier has been ordered for the lobby! I will post some pics soon.

Here are the hardware specs so far:
Denon AVR3300, Velodyne DD15, B&W 703 mains, B&W HTM7 center, Definitive UIW-BPZ/A surrounds (4), Monster 7000SS power center, URC MSC400/MX-900 remote system, Stewart 110" Firehawk, Optoma HD81, Toshiba HD DVD, Pioneer Elite DVD, Tivo, Mac G4 music server, Comcast HD, Grafik Eye, motorized curtian, RPG Modex and BAD panels for walls and ceiling, all walls and ceiling isolated with RISC clips, riser isolated with stud beam isolators and two rows of Berkline 090s in leather/vinyl.

I know that as I get closer to finishing I will discover something that will pose an issue either acoustically or with the video but I think I have most of the bases covered.

Back to work. My nail gun is calling me! :rolleyes:

John

WOW!!!!!!!!!! You are a man after my own heart. Did you receive your HD81? What software did it come with?

Jeff,

The Schneider lens was supposed to be available for $4,000 as an option with the projector. Do you know if it is available as promised? Or are they thinking of offering other lenses now also?

Thanks! :)

Purely speculation here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the deal Optoma has with Schneider has gone belly up and they are looking for a new, cheaper source. I always thought that $4000 for a quality product from Schneider was too good to be true. It will be a great shame if this turns out to be the case, that lens was a nice, compact piece, whereas the Panamorph is plain ugly and BIG.

Could anyone tell me how to determine what firmware is on my hd81 unit>?
On your remote click the MENU button. Then go down to SYSTEM. The version number will appear at the bottom.

Purely speculation here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the deal Optoma has with Schneider has gone belly up and they are looking for a new, cheaper source. I always thought that $4000 for a quality product from Schneider was too good to be true. It will be a great shame if this turns out to be the case, that lens was a nice, compact piece, whereas the Panamorph is plain ugly and BIG.

I agree. The Panamorph is bulky and UGLY!

Check out this video from CEDIA that I found on cinenow.com: http://www.cinenow.com/uk/play-video-482.html The Optoma senior product manager crows about the HD81 with the Schneider lens and says that it will be available a week after the show.

YEAH RIGHT!

I agree. The Panamorph is bulky and UGLY!

Check out this video from CEDIA that I found on cinenow.com: http://www.cinenow.com/uk/play-video-482.html The Optoma senior product manager crows about the HD81 with the Schneider lens and says that it will be available a week after the show.

YEAH RIGHT!

To be technical, I don't think he ever specifically said that the Schneider lens option would be available a week after the show, but it certainly was implied.

That Schneider lens looks cool! :cool:

So lets feed it the 1080i/60 output from the HD-DVD player - let it do the IVTC -> 24p and enjoy JUDDERFREE playback on our fancy new projector. Wait a minute - the Gennum VXP processor is one of the most advanced video processors around, ANY other Gennum based Scaler/Video Processor (and yes, "even" the Marantz on-board solution) supports its great IVTC capability - any other but NOT the Optoma :rolleyes:

So in order to get judderfree HD-DVD playback with your 24p/48Hz capable video processor/projector combo (which we all agree is a MUST-HAVE) you - and now sit down - have to buy another video processor/scaler (just about ANY recent one will do...), put it between your HD-DVD player and your fancy Optoma video processor. Now you have a proper chain: HD-DVD -> 1080/60i -> "Any other video processor" -> 1080p/24 -> Optoma's video processor -> Projector. No comment!



My understanding is that if you want judder free, then buy a 1080p HD or Blu-ray player. The output of a 1080p player will match with the 1080/24p input of the Optoma perfectly! The Toshiba XA2 or any Blu Player will output 1080/24p.

You need a 1080p player to maximize the PQ of the Optoma anyway. Why spend more money buying a 1080p PJ, and feed it with 1080/60i???

Chuong

I'm hoping one of the Optoma folks chimes in here soon. The Optoma HD81 has been high (if not top) on my list for my first PJ in a dedicated 14x21 room, but the problems posted here have me concerned, especially with the lack of responses, especially in light of the announcement of the new JVC RS1 price.

I have just got my HD81 with CO5 and couldn't resist the temptation to fire it up before my HT is ready. I projected onto a "cappuccino" colored wall (according to my wife) that was in our double height family room balancing the projecter on a tower speaker and putting the image on a wall that started 12' above the floor. There was plenty of keystoning, the angles were all off and it should have been a horrible experience but it was FANTASTIC. It looked sharper then my 50" DLP TV! Instead of playing with it I ended up watching Cars with the kids. At this point I do not regret my purchase at all..... I will probably try and get a few more hours behind the bulb and post my opinions again they may change once I get more familiar. Damn that thing is bright though..!!!

My understanding is that if you want judder free, then buy a 1080p HD or Blu-ray player. The output of a 1080p player will match with the 1080/24p input of the Optoma perfectly! The Toshiba XA2 or any Blu Player will output 1080/24p.

You need a 1080p player to maximize the PQ of the Optoma anyway. Why spend more money buying a 1080p PJ, and feed it with 1080/60i???

Chuong

Because the Toshiba XA2 will most likely not support 24p output when its released (this information comes from a VERY reliable source) nor does any other HD-DVD player or the vast majority of BluRay player (just Pioneer is confirmed to support it, Sony probably too) out there or announced. Any other source outputs HD film content @ 1080i/60 (D-Theater player, HDTV receiver, upscaling DVD player,.......). That's why people use external video processors/scalers with HD film sources - to do IVTC with proper frame rate adaption.

The Optoma HD81 has been high (if not top) on my list for my first PJ in a dedicated 14x21 room, but the problems posted here have me concerned,

Mark,

Forums are a fantastic resource containing loads of information but if you let reports of problems prevent you from buying a particular product, you'll never buy anything for the rest of your life.

I purchased a Panasonic display device after reading the forums and researching for a long time. I read all about the pro's, cons and potential problems. It's been a few months now and I have no regrets.

Lion,

Pardon my naivete concerning HD DVD players (I have not purchased one yet) but are you saying that the Pioneer Elite BluRay and the Sony BluRay are perfectly compatible with the VXD and therefore are the one's to buy? Ae you referring to VXD's with C04,5 and 6?

Because the Toshiba XA2 will most likely not support 24p output when its released (this information comes from a VERY reliable source) nor does any other HD-DVD player or the vast majority of BluRay player (just Pioneer is confirmed to support it, Sony probably too) out there or announced. Any other source outputs HD film content @ 1080i/60 (D-Theater player, HDTV receiver, upscaling DVD player,.......). That's why people use external video processors/scalers with HD film sources - to do IVTC with proper frame rate adaption.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood something, but I thought the Tosh. XA2 is advertised as a 1080p machine, so are all Bluray players. And there is only one rate of transfer for 1080p, which is 1080/24p. Hence, the 'p' in 1080p. If these so call '1080p' machines xfer in 1080/60i, then the current A1 already does that. What would be the difference between an 1080i and 1080p machine? If there is no difference, then why twice the cost?

Chuong

Because the Toshiba XA2 will most likely not support 24p output when its released (this information comes from a VERY reliable source) nor does any other HD-DVD player or the vast majority of BluRay player (just Pioneer is confirmed to support it, Sony probably too) out there or announced. Any other source outputs HD film content @ 1080i/60 (D-Theater player, HDTV receiver, upscaling DVD player,.......). That's why people use external video processors/scalers with HD film sources - to do IVTC with proper frame rate adaption.


Here is a quote from CNET's review of the XA2 "...1080p output and HDMI 1.3 are reserved for the new step-up model, the HD-XA2 (December, $999)..."

Is CNET wrong?

Chuong

Because the Toshiba XA2 will most likely not support 24p output when its released (this information comes from a VERY reliable source) nor does any other HD-DVD player or the vast majority of BluRay player (just Pioneer is confirmed to support it, Sony probably too) out there or announced. Any other source outputs HD film content @ 1080i/60 (D-Theater player, HDTV receiver, upscaling DVD player,.......). That's why people use external video processors/scalers with HD film sources - to do IVTC with proper frame rate adaption.

Here is another CNET's review of the Panasonic Bluray player, saying it does 1080p output and so do all Bluray players.

"...Panasonic DMP-BD10 and other Blu-ray players' biggest early edge over HD-DVD players from Toshiba, the HD-XA1 and HD-A1, is the ability to output 1080p resolution via the HDMI jack, besting the 1080i delivered by first-gen HD-DVD decks..."

Chuong

I'm hoping one of the Optoma folks chimes in here soon. The Optoma HD81 has been high (if not top) on my list for my first PJ in a dedicated 14x21 room, but the problems posted here have me concerned, especially with the lack of responses, especially in light of the announcement of the new JVC RS1 price.

A 14x21 room is plenty big enough for the HD81. Your concern should be ceiling height. Anything less than 9' will need some creative mounting, unless you are going to a smaller screen.

Chuong

..there is only one rate of transfer for 1080p, which is 1080/24p. Hence, the 'p' in 1080p.
Actually 1080p60 will likely also be supported.

Igasman,

The clicking noise comes from the Auto IRIS. There has been a lot of discussion about this in this thread. Many of us have turned the auto Iris off because of the noise. The Firmware version is where the projector info. is I believe. Just work your way through the menu trees and you will find it.



Thanks Mr.hifi for your info.
Earl

A 14x21 room is plenty big enough for the HD81. Your concern should be ceiling height. Anything less than 9' will need some creative mounting, unless you are going to a smaller screen.

Chuong

I have 9 ft ceilings, would like to mount PJ on back wall (21'), and throw an image onto a 120" 2.35:1 screen, so this PJ is calling my name.

I'm just awaiting the outcome of the firmware upgrade issues, and actually won't be buying until end of the year or in January, so most issues brought up here relating to firmware, etc should be dealt with by then. Should also have actual viewing reports on the JVC by then (actually this weekend) which will be good for comparison...

I have 9 ft ceilings, would like to mount PJ on back wall (21'), and throw an image onto a 120" 2.35:1 screen, so this PJ is calling my name.

I'm just awaiting the outcome of the firmware upgrade issues, and actually won't be buying until end of the year or in January, so most issues brought up here relating to firmware, etc should be dealt with by then. Should also have actual viewing reports on the JVC by then (actually this weekend) which will be good for comparison...

I'm getting mine this Friday supposedly with the C06 FW. Will post results when I have everything calibrated. I don't think they have C07 ready by Jan. since C06 is just released. But good luck!

Chuong

I have 9 ft ceilings, would like to mount PJ on back wall (21'), and throw an image onto a 120" 2.35:1 screen, so this PJ is calling my name.

I'm just awaiting the outcome of the firmware upgrade issues, and actually won't be buying until end of the year or in January, so most issues brought up here relating to firmware, etc should be dealt with by then. Should also have actual viewing reports on the JVC by then (actually this weekend) which will be good for comparison...

I'm getting mine this Friday supposedly with the C06 FW. Will post results when I have everything calibrated. I don't think they have C07 ready by Jan. since C06 is just released. But good luck!

Chuong

Actually 1080p60 will likely also be supported.

I'm not sure what you mean by 1080p60? Or do you mean 1080/60i. Because there is no such thing as 1080p60, unless movies are shot in 60 fps, which they are not.

Chuong

I'm not sure what you mean by 1080p60? Or do you mean 1080/60i. Because there is no such thing as 1080p60, unless movies are shot in 60 fps, which they are not.

Chuong
Now, you are absolutely sure there is no such thing as 1080p60? :D There is also 1080p50 which the PAL users would be interested in.

Movies are not shot at 1080i60 either, but it does exist. :) :)

Yippee! My HD81 arrived and it is a CO6! Now I just have to get the HT up and running, probably just in time for CO7!

For those considering an anamorphic lens for the HD81, or any other digital projector,
I've been told that a comparison between the new Panamorph UH380 and Schneider, ISCO II and III was done at Optoma and that the Panamorph looked very
good. Very little CA, just a bit softer than Schneider, better than ISCO II and held its own with ISCO III. If the UH380 was representative of normal production models,
I'm pretty excited.

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

Have you heard anything more on this subject? We are getting a little eager here, as we will be ready to mount the PJ in three weeks and I would hate to think we will still be waiting on a decision as to whether the Schneider is a dead duck or not!
I wonder if a direct deal with Schneider might be possible. I really liked that lens and would feel somewhat cheated to be told by Optoma to use a Panamorph, or whatever, instead. Thanks!

I wonder if a direct deal with Schneider might be possible.

Why not?

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=91

Why not?

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=91

Craig,

Do you know what the model number of the lens shown at Cedia was? Problem then would be fabricating a mount!

It should be the top lens - 1.33X , and they sell a nice ( pricey ) mount too.

It should be the top lens - 1.33X , and they sell a nice ( pricey ) mount too.

Thanks, I will check it out!

Now, you are absolutely sure there is no such thing as 1080p60? :D There is also 1080p50 which the PAL users would be interested in.

Movies are not shot at 1080i60 either, but it does exist. :) :)

You are correct that 1080p60 exists in the conversion before it's displayed. I was thinking of the xfer process when I wrote the email. And yes, it's possible to xfer at 1080p60 also, but I don't know of any player that does this.

Chuong

I'm sorry if I misunderstood something, but I thought the Tosh. XA2 is advertised as a 1080p machine, so are all Bluray players. And there is only one rate of transfer for 1080p, which is 1080/24p. Hence, the 'p' in 1080p. If these so call '1080p' machines xfer in 1080/60i, then the current A1 already does that. What would be the difference between an 1080i and 1080p machine? If there is no difference, then why twice the cost?

Chuong

chuongvu,

when "they" talk about "1080p" they really mean 1080p/60 support. This is true for the Samsung, Philips, Panasonic Blu-Ray and the HD-XA2 HD-DVD player. Basically they do 3:2 pulldown on the 24p source and then "deinterlacing" the 1080i/60 stream up to 1080p/60Hz. ONLY the upcoming Pioneer and Sony BluRay player support 1080p/24 output without the 3:2 pulldown judder.

chuongvu,

when "they" talk about "1080p" they really mean 1080p/60 support. This is true for the Samsung, Philips, Panasonic Blu-Ray and the HD-XA2 HD-DVD player. Basically they do 3:2 pulldown on the 24p source and then "deinterlacing" the 1080i/60 stream up to 1080p/60Hz. ONLY the upcoming Pioneer and Sony BluRay player support 1080p/24 output without the 3:2 pulldown judder.

Will the PS3 do 1080p24 output?

Will the PS3 do 1080p24 output?

Rob, there are lot's of rumors about that. Most likely not out-of-the-box but with a later firmware update... Where do we know that from ??? :rolleyes:

Question?, could you split the HDMI output that goes to the projector with an Hdmi switcher and send the other split signal to another Projector or TV (thus using the H81 Scaler for the other projector or tv)??
Anyone with input?,,

1gasman

Projector Central Review of the HD81 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_hd81.htm)

chuongvu,

when "they" talk about "1080p" they really mean 1080p/60 support. This is true for the Samsung, Philips, Panasonic Blu-Ray and the HD-XA2 HD-DVD player. Basically they do 3:2 pulldown on the 24p source and then "deinterlacing" the 1080i/60 stream up to 1080p/60Hz. ONLY the upcoming Pioneer and Sony BluRay player support 1080p/24 output without the 3:2 pulldown judder.

Thanks for the info.

Just want to confirm what you said. The XA2 or Non-Pioneer/Sony BD player will xfer 1080p/60 to the Optoma -which is 1080p/24. And the Optoma does not do IVTC so I will see 3:2 judder. That means to avoid adding a costly video scaler I have to buy either Pioneer or Sony Bluray player.

Is this correct?

Thanks again.

Chuong

chuongvu,

when "they" talk about "1080p" they really mean 1080p/60 support. This is true for the Samsung, Philips, Panasonic Blu-Ray and the HD-XA2 HD-DVD player. Basically they do 3:2 pulldown on the 24p source and then "deinterlacing" the 1080i/60 stream up to 1080p/60Hz. ONLY the upcoming Pioneer and Sony BluRay player support 1080p/24 output without the 3:2 pulldown judder.

Hi Lion,

One more question... I thought the movies are encoded in 1080/24 so why would they have to interlace it to 1080i then de-interlace to 1080p again. Couldn't they just do a 3:2 pulldown on the encoded movie content and send it out as 1080p/60?

Thanks,

Chuong

Hi Lion,

One more question... I thought the movies are encoded in 1080/24 so why would they have to interlace it to 1080i then de-interlace to 1080p again. Couldn't they just do a 3:2 pulldown on the encoded movie content and send it out as 1080p/60?

Thanks,

Chuong

The result of an 3:2 pulldown process is unfortunately always a 1080i/60 stream. The pulldown process handles fields not frames.

Thanks for the info.

Just want to confirm what you said. The XA2 or Non-Pioneer/Sony BD player will xfer 1080p/60 to the Optoma -which is 1080p/24. And the Optoma does not do IVTC so I will see 3:2 judder. That means to avoid adding a costly video scaler I have to buy either Pioneer or Sony Bluray player.

Is this correct?

Thanks again.

Chuong

At the moment, yes! Toshiba will provide 1080p/24 output someday - probably even with a new (hardware) revision of the XA2 - or later generation.

But IF Optoma enables IVTC/frame rate adaption for the VXP per firmware update all we need is the 1080i/60 stream and the video processor does the rest (just like an extra external video processor would do). If...

The result of an 3:2 pulldown process is unfortunately always a 1080i/60 stream. The pulldown process handles fields not frames.
Actually the best and easiest way to convert 1080p24 to 1080p60 is by repeating frames with a 3-2 sequence. There is no need to convert to 1080i unless the user wants a 1080i output. It was simply a limitation of a chip used in the Samsung Blu-ray player that it had to first generate 1080i before another chip applied inverse-telecine deinterlacing to output 1080p.

At the moment, yes! Toshiba will provide 1080p/24 output someday - probably even with a new (hardware) revision of the XA2 - or later generation.

But IF Optoma enables IVTC/frame rate adaption for the VXP per firmware update all we need is the 1080i/60 stream and the video processor does the rest (just like an extra external video processor would do). If...

Hi Lion,

Thanks for more info.

I was wondering how bad was the judder that you see on a 1080i/60 source displayed by the Optoma.

I haven't seen anyone else mentioned the judder problem.

Thanks,

Chuong

I agree. The Panamorph is bulky and UGLY!

Check out this video from CEDIA that I found on cinenow.com: http://www.cinenow.com/uk/play-video-482.html The Optoma senior product manager crows about the HD81 with the Schneider lens and says that it will be available a week after the show.

YEAH RIGHT!

To be truthful, I think he was referring to the PJ when he said it would be available in one week, but even that didn't happen! The fact is that everyone from Optoma said for sure the Schneider would be available in four weeks. The same guy seen in the video said, four weeks, and when asked if he was sure that wasn't four months, he emphatically said, absolutely no more than four weeks. Here we are and we are not only still waiting but now they are evaluating other anamorphic lenses, without any explanation. I will be ready for an anamorphic lens in about three weeks, for my installation, and I am displeased that what I saw at Cedia (and so impressed me) may not be what I will be able to end up with.

I have contacted Schneider to try and get some info about the lens we saw at Cedia. Was it a prototype, specifically produced for the HD81, or was it an off the shelf, available item? None of the anamorphic lenses, seen on the Schneider web site, look like that seen at Cedia. Has their deal with Optoma gone belly up? Even if it has, I would still like to get a hold of that lens we saw at Cedia! Anything else would be a compromise, in my opinion.

MCBRacer - I pre-ordered the Panamorph U380 so when I get that, hopefully this month I will let you have my impressions - nothing else to compare it against but I will look out for any image quality issues.

I have 9 ft ceilings, would like to mount PJ on back wall (21'), and throw an image onto a 120" 2.35:1 screen, so this PJ is calling my name.

I'm just awaiting the outcome of the firmware upgrade issues, and actually won't be buying until end of the year or in January, so most issues brought up here relating to firmware, etc should be dealt with by then. Should also have actual viewing reports on the JVC by then (actually this weekend) which will be good for comparison...

Hi Mark!

This is the exact setup that I am looking at for my basement theater. What anamorphic lens where you considering to pair with the HD81?

Thanks

Michael :cool:

To be truthful, I think he was referring to the PJ when he said it would be available in one week, but even that didn't happen! The fact is that everyone from Optoma said for sure the Schneider would be available in four weeks. The same guy seen in the video said, four weeks, and when asked if he was sure that wasn't four months, he emphatically said, absolutely no more than four weeks. Here we are and we are not only still waiting but now they are evaluating other anamorphic lenses, without any explanation. I will be ready for an anamorphic lens in about three weeks, for my installation, and I am displeased that what I saw at Cedia (and so impressed me) may not be what I will be able to end up with.

I have contacted Schneider to try and get some info about the lens we saw at Cedia. Was it a prototype, specifically produced for the HD81, or was it an off the shelf, available item? None of the anamorphic lenses, seen on the Schneider web site, look like that seen at Cedia. Has their deal with Optoma gone belly up? Even if it has, I would still like to get a hold of that lens we saw at Cedia! Anything else would be a compromise, in my opinion.

Also, the Schneider lens on their website goes for $6,150 instead of the announced $4,000 through Optoma!

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=91&IID=851

:mad: :eek:

Hi Mark!

This is the exact setup that I am looking at for my basement theater. What anamorphic lens where you considering to pair with the HD81?

Thanks

Michael :cool:


I would love to be able to swing an ISCO III, but out of budget. I'm awaiting future comments on the new Panamorph UH380.

I would love to be able to swing an ISCO III, but out of budget. I'm awaiting future comments on the new Panamorph UH380.

If the production Panamorph UH380's look like the one that was brought to Optoma by Shawn Kelly last week, well, there is no reason to pay twice as much for an ISCO III. The Panamorph UH380 had less CA than Schneider, albeit slightly softer, was superior in sharpness and CA to the ISCO II and similar in sharpness to the ISCO III with less CA. This quality at considerably less money plus the option to add a motorized transport is pretty impressive, IMO.

I have heard unofficially by a dealer that Optoma is going with the Panamorph UH380 and M380 transport combo for $4500, which is less than the normal Panamorph price on their site(assuming one didn't preorder by the November 14 deadline). I have not received confirmation of this by anybody at Optoma, nor their plans about the Schneider lens. My problem with the Schneider was not wanting to have to manually swing it in and out of the way on a ceiling mounted HD81, but it is a beautiful piece of glass.

I think Panamorph could really have a winner here with great quality at a very
aggressive price, and a motorized transport that can be triggered by the HD81.

Jeff Regan

I just heard from Shawn that my UH380 will be shipping next week so it looks like they are starting to become available.

WOW!!!!!!!!!! You are a man after my own heart. Did you receive your HD81? What software did it come with?

Neil,

The PJ came Tuesday as promised. I was not ready to test it yet so last night was the first power up. Hooked up the Toshiba and all is well. Unit shiped with C06 10.6.06. I have no idea what has been addressed in C06. There is a verticle image shift. Is that new? Also a keystone adjustment. Let me know if there is anything I can look for or try out that will give encouragement to existing owners with C04.

It looks like a fit. My screen and seating will be delivered next week. I can say that I am very happy that the HD81 is mounted in a hush box in the lobby. Standing next to the vent it does make noise. Nothing I can not handle at this time.

Picture is on a stretched sheet so no judgments yet. The remote takes some getting used to but the Toshiba HD DVD remote takes the cake. Ugh! Do any of these manufacturers ever use a TiVo? Now there is a remote. Well that shoud be addressed after setup with the URC system. I have the dealer setting up the stuff to the first time.

Power up test for the wiring will be this week. Then I put it all away until the carprt is installed. Christmas is still 8 or 9 weeks away right? I have time right? :eek:

Back to work.

Sorry Art I was in rapture and called you Neil. :o

John,

I am truly happy for you. The differences I hope will be present in C06 vis a vis C04 have to do with the default values for values for gamma, brightness, color and hue for different inputs, HDMI and analog. Hopefully the PC vs Video brightness levels have been straightened out. Hopefully, the HDMI inputs have stable memories. There are others bu if yo are blessed and have C06, you need not worry. I am waiting for Tom to get back to me about C07 availability. Otherwise, I have a Retrn Authorization Number from Optoma. I will have to send it back and risk damage or destruction in shipment. BTW, you all can bash me for saying this but in my 50+ years of buying euipment I often purchased equipment when it was first available. If gear had a problem or needed modification, the companies would ship replacements immediately. I would think OPTOMA would exchange the HD81 I have for a unit with the proper Firmware. LG and RCA both miled replacement units and let me send my original, defective , units. This engenders good will. Optoma does not seem at all intersted in engendering good will. In fact, instead of paying for the return, they are making me pay for the shipping. The C04 version is crap nd useless. They should recall them and pay for the shipping. I hope Optoma does indeed allow us to update ourselves .

I just heard from Shawn that my UH380 will be shipping next week so it looks like they are starting to become available.

Please keep us posted about any positive, or negative, thoughts when you have the lens installed!

Neil,

There is a verticle image shift. Is that new?

Really??!

If so, you bet it's new!!! This would be a very major improvement and a deal maker for lots of us with 8' ceilings!

Could you confirm that there is actually a vertical lens shift on the newer HD81's

Thanks!!

Luis

I wouldn't be surprised if that's just digitally moving the image within the DMD rather than optically like lens shift which is different.

Gary

Really??!

If so, you bet it's new!!! This would be a very major improvement and a deal maker for lots of us with 8' ceilings!

Could you confirm that there is actually a vertical lens shift on the newer HD81's?

Thanks!!

Luis

It is not new. It is there in C04 (which I have). I believe it will move the pixels up or down by 100 pixels or something like that. It is about 3 inches at my dimensions of a 7 foot wide screen.

Having said that, there are quite a few of us with 8 foot or less ceilings. I believe that Joe Linn has a 7 1/2 foot ceiling and he is extremely happy with his.

Joe

Just got back from EX and was very dissapointed there was no HD81 on display. Not even a unit to show. Nothing. The JVC RS1 was there and looked great. I had hoped to compare the two. They compared the RS1 with the Sharp 20000 and the RS1 looked better in every way. I didn't think it looked overly bright though. Wish I could have compared it to an HD81.
Still leaning towards the HD81 for the brightness and punch and available now.

Yes, I too would be VERY interested in hearing about a head-to-head of the JVC RS1 and the HD81 (analogous to the excellent Pearl/HD81 comparison). The JVC has clearly replaced the Pearl as the best LCoS has to offer (in < $10K). The fact that it looked so good compared to the Sharp is impressive. Probably the only advantage the HD81 would have is its brightness (and maybe ANSI CR); the RS1 would presumably best it, by a wide margin, in O/F CR and black level.

"The PJ came Tuesday as promised. I was not ready to test it yet so last night was the first power up. Hooked up the Toshiba and all is well. Unit shiped with C06 10.6.06. I have no idea what has been addressed in C06."

At the top of the list C06 added a new protocal for the auto iris (less drastic switching) and fixed the defaulting upon shutdown of PC/video, 7.5/0 to PC and 0. I tested it and it remembers your choice. They also added the help statment on "some HDMI devices need PLAY to be hit again". Assume they mean the Tosh HDA1, also added a longer stay for the start up Logo.

"The PJ came Tuesday as promised. I was not ready to test it yet so last night was the first power up. Hooked up the Toshiba and all is well. Unit shiped with C06 10.6.06. I have no idea what has been addressed in C06."

At the top of the list C06 added a new protocal for the auto iris (less drastic switching) and fixed the defaulting upon shutdown of PC/video, 7.5/0 to PC and 0. I tested it and it remembers your choice. They also added the help statment on "some HDMI devices need PLAY to be hit again". Assume they mean the Tosh HDA1, also added a longer stay for the start up Logo.

Tom,

That's good to hear. I will be anxious to try the auto iris again with the new firmware. The logo however, I thought was on long enough already :)

Joe

Check the manufacturing date of 10/06, and it does have the C06.

My screen has come yet so I projected on a texture beige wall. All I did was zoom and focus. What an unbelievable picture that I got from the satellite dish.
I hear the fan but it's not that noisy, and I'm sitting 2 feet from the Optoma.

The manual says that it's compatible with input modes of 1080p/24 and 1080p/60. So I'm confused about member Lion saying that it's not compatible with 1080p/60???

There were 2 issues that I notice. First, about 30% of non-HD, 4:3 channels come in missing a few lines at the top of the image. So the Optoma outputs a line of flickering-dash light. Could it be the scaler? Could it be the TV station? I don't know. It's not really important because I only watch HD channels. And the HD channels in 16:9 are perfect.

The second issue is the halo lights on both sides of the image. It's in the shape of two parentheses ( ). With the image in the middle. It's very visible on dark scenes. I hope dark curtains on the sides will take care of this.

So, the first issue doesn't really affect me. And the second issue is solvable.

It's the best money I've ever spent. I stayed up until 2am then woke up at 5am to watch before the sun comes up. I don't have curtains yet. I'm turning into a vampire! Thank God for daylight, otherwise I would never get anything else done.

I'm getting the Tosh A1 and will watch HD movies tonight. And the picture will even be better. It's hard to imagine that is possible. And with the DaLite screen, it will even be better than that. That's not possible, is it???

I will have to hand out diapers to my guests at the door because as one AVS member said "they're gonna **** when they see the picture!!!". I almost did!

Unbelievable picture. I don't know what all the gripes is about. People should be ecstatic with this good of a PJ. If I didn't have the money, I would starve and not pay rent to buy this PJ.

If you are undecided to get this PJ for whatever reason. Don't be. Remodel your house if you have to, to resolve the large offset and long throw. It's worth it. You will also end up with a bigger house. :)

Life is too short, not to enjoy this much fun.

Chuong

Chuong,

Glad to hear that you are happy. I was told that the halos are only visible at full zoom. I have not personally verified this though.

Joe

Chuong,

Glad to hear that you are happy. I was told that the halos are only visible at full zoom. I have not personally verified this though.

Joe


Thanks Joe for the info. My zoom is not centered since I don't have the PJ mounted in the correct position yet. It's just sitting on my coffee table.

Is that full zoom In or Out?

Chuong

First, about 30% of non-HD, 4:3 channels come in missing a few lines at the top of the image. So the Optoma outputs a line of flickering-dash light. Could it be the scaler? Could it be the TV station? I don't know. It's not really important because I only watch HD channels. And the HD channels in 16:9 are perfect.

The second issue is the halo lights on both sides of the image. It's in the shape of two parentheses ( ). With the image in the middle. It's very visible on dark scenes. I hope dark curtains on the sides will take care of this.
The flickering dashes are data fields in the broadcast signal that are usually covered by the overscan of the display device. This is not a problem with the HD81 or the scaler. Use the "OVERSCAN" button on the menu to "blank" the top lines until the flashing is hidden.

The second issue is light leakage from the lens. The zoom setting can make it more or less noticable depending on the setting, but the halo is always there (it should always fall outside of the screen -- if not, that is a problem). Your idea of using curtians, dark paint, or other light absorbing material will solve that issue.

The flickering dashes are data fields in the broadcast signal that are usually covered by the overscan of the display device. This is not a problem with the HD81 or the scaler. Use the "OVERSCAN" button on the menu to "blank" the top lines until the flashing is hidden.

The second issue is light leakage from the lens. The zoom setting can make it more or less noticable depending on the setting, but the halo is always there (it should always fall outside of the screen -- if not, that is a problem). Your idea of using curtians, dark paint, or other light absorbing material will solve that issue.

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the info. I know I can always count on you for good info. I will try your suggestions.

Chuong

Kevin it's best to use the digital vertical shift when noise is just at the top rather than full overscan. Less scaling for a cleaner picture.

Just talked to Wing he has a newer version of C07 that addressess the 48hz problem. Says they got it to work great with HDMI, component not so easy so it's a no go there. Should be finished next week and he'll try to get the web access going.

Hi Tom:

Chuongvu said his problem was with 4:3 images. In that format setting, the only options are Edge Masking with Overscan -- at least that's what the manual says. I will have to play with these and see what they really do.

I didn't understand overscan to impact scaling but only to mask pixels on any of the 4 sides.