I did some testing with the HQV test disc to see if it made more sense to playback SD DVD's
with my Toshiba HD DVD player outputting 1080i/HDMI or Sony DVD player at 480i/Component.

As Kevin Anderson previously found, using 480i is a good way to go because of the Gennum
VXP scaling of the HD81. The Toshiba failed several scaling tests that the Gennum sailed through.

Unfortunately, after having watched mainly HD DVD's on the HD81 or HD via satellite, SD
DVD's just don't look that great. Besides the softness, things like artificial detail edges
found on many SD DVD's really ruin the image for me and the HD81 shows every compression artifact. It is easy to get spoiled with HD sources with this projector.

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

I couldn't agree more. I actually find it very hard to watch any standard dvds on my Toshiba or my Denon 2200. The only way I can watch them is with My gasses off!

Spoiled myself
Tony Garippo

Tony:

It's never a good idea to have gasses on in the room while watching movies. :D

I have the new projector mounted. It is much quieter than the first one. 31 dB vs 34 dB . Greatly reduced color wheel noise to the point that I can hardly hear it. It is loaded with C07. The look of this projector is nowhere near as "punchy" as the first one. Optoma has definitely tamed this baby down. The noise I referred to in earlier messages is gone along with those amazingly sharp edges and boundarys between colors. I am looking for Kevin's HDMI settings but can't find them. I have the RGB settings but they are no longer appropriate. Guess i will have to re set the gray scale and re-calibrate (God i hate using that word). More later. C07 has many changes. Many of these appear to have affected PQ. I need to live with this some more.

Tony:

It's never a good idea to have gasses on in the room while watching movies. :D

Your right, and I could have saved over 6K and kept my old 720p pq! as a matter of fact, 480i would be good enough. NOT!!

Tony.

Does the HD-81 take a DB-9 RS 232 cable? If so is it F/F, M/M, or M/F?

Thanks,

David

Does the HD-81 take a DB-9 RS 232 cable? If so is it F/F, M/M, or M/F?

Thanks,

David

Yes, F/F. It comes with two 6' control cables.

Jeff Regan

Thanks Jeff.

Where do you find a 40-50 ft DB9 Serial Cable? I found a M/F, and a M/M, but not a F/F.

I am Pre wiring my new house for this projector, and haven't been able to find this cable.

Thanks,

David

I've been out of town all week and am just catching up with everything.

Tony. Thanks for posting the pictures. Very interesting setup and use of acoustic panels.

Art, I'm glad you got a new projector and hope you can work out the bugs. My HDMI settings at found at post #2338.

David, running 40-50 feet of serial cable with DB9 connectors on each end can be a pain. Try running CAT-5 cable and then splice in the two ends of the provided serial cable (some where in this thread I posted some detailed instructions on how to wire this).

1gasman,

I would not send your HD81 in for a firmware upgrade until the version Optoma would
provide is capable of doing a full download from the net, when their site is running.
Currently, it is unclear whether or not C06 will allow a full download of C07 and above,
because C07 has not been finalized. Once it is clear which firmware version will allow
full downloads via the net, and you send your HD81 in for that version, you should
not need to send your processor and projector back to Optoma again for firmware
upgrades.

If you are having specific issues which can be addressed by newer firmware, then Optoma
should be willing to do a free upgrade. Customer service will not offer C07 until it is finalized, and this is the firmware that is supposed to address HDMI issues.

Jeff Regan

-------------------

Thanks Jeff for your info!

1gasman

Any thoughts on a good SD match for the HD81? If you can (and should) use the Gennum and don't need the scaling that most higher end SD players have they would seem to represent bad value.

Thanks

Piers

Where do you find a 40-50 ft DB9 Serial Cable? I found a M/F, and a M/M, but not a F/F.
I used a 50 ft M/F, which I then plugged the male end to the female end of the supplied cable from Optoma. I haven't had a single problem. But I do agree, why Optoma chose F/F and then only supply a 6 ft cable, when F/F cables are hard to find is another little ding against this projector.

I used a 50 ft M/F, which I then plugged the male end to the female end of the supplied cable from Optoma. I haven't had a single problem. But I do agree, why Optoma chose F/F and then only supply a 6 ft cable, when F/F cables are hard to find is another little ding against this projector.

You can also get a small gender mender from Radio Schack. They are only about an inch thick and provide a good solid connection.

Joe

As to a good SD DVD player, you might want to look into the Oppo DV-970HD because it is one of the few players (maybe the only one) that outputs 480i over the HDMI connection. I haven't seen this player in action, but in theory it should provide the cleanest 480i signal to the Gennum processor. It also won the "Perfect Vision's" Editor's Choice Award.

Here is a link for more info Oppo DV-970HD (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd.html)

Frankly, I've never understood this requirement. There are no vents on the bottom of the projector and there is not a minimum clearance requirement if the projector is table mounted. I wonder if this is a left-over from its "business projector" days.

Here is what the manual says:
"If you buy the ceiling mount from other company, please ensure that there is at least 10cm distance between the bottom cover of the projector and the ceiling."

Maybe because on a ceiling mount the heat is rising toward the bottom of the projector?

Joe

My HT room has and will still have a dropped ceiling consisting of 2x2 ceiling tiles. From the sound of these comments what do you guys think of mounting the PJ directly to a tile that is essentually a grate?

This would allow it to be as high as possible and provide unlimited cooling due to all of the available air space above the ceiling. :)

My HT room has and will still have a dropped ceiling consisting of 2x2 ceiling tiles. From the sound of these comments what do you guys think of mounting the PJ directly to a tile that is essentually a grate?

This would allow it to be as high as possible and provide unlimited cooling due to all of the available air space above the ceiling. :)

Sounds OK for ventilation, But I think that it should be mounted independently, and not from the ceiling grid. Secure it to the ceiling (or Floor) above.

Tony G.

Thanks Jeff.

Where do you find a 40-50 ft DB9 Serial Cable? I found a M/F, and a M/M, but not a F/F.

I am Pre wiring my new house for this projector, and haven't been able to find this cable.

Thanks,

David

go to csncables.com, they have 35' and 50' DB9 M/F cables for less than $10. I bought the 35' cable, then connect the Optoma's supplied DB9 F/F cable to it. When done, I have a 41' F/F cable.

What Kevin suggests will work to. It's just less work for me this way. Be careful that you can not screw the M-F ends together, so I keep this connection outside the wall, just in case it comes loose. Or you can use masking tape. :)

Good luck,

Chuong

I'm planning to buy HD81, and want 120" to 130" wide screen (2.35 CIH setup).
What will be best screen for me. Its not a dedicated theatre. But i will be watching movies at night only. Although ceiling and rug are light colored, and walls are dark beige.
I'm leaning towards Stewart ultramatte 130 or 150

any suggestions??

Thx
mani

I have a 105" wide, 120" diag., 16:9 screen, and I mounted the PJ as close to the screen as the manual allows. And with Brite mode on, and brightness up, it would barely meet my brightness standard for movies For satellite TV, the brightness is OK.

With a 120" wide screen, I'm afraid it would not be bright enough. Originally, I was planning on a 132" diag. screen, but when i calculated the light output at the screen, it was not bright enough.

Chuong

So, which is it...27% or 37%?

The projector central site says the HD81 has a "4x speed" color wheel. Is that accurate?

edit: hey, look who was first to post on page 100! ;)

36.2 to be exact.

Chuong

All,

i have a question that maybe one of you can help with... I am trying to determine the math to calculate the offset, and screen size based upon setback from the screen and distance from the ceiling. Based upon some of the comments I want to make sure it will actually work for my application...

Does anyone have all of the formulas. I have not been able to find anything...but figure I am just missing it :o


I am debating the HD81 vs the HC5000. There is a really cool tool for the Mitsubishi products to do all of the calculations. I am more Pro DLP so would prefer the HD81 :D

Thanks in advance for the help

all the mathematical formulas are in the user's manual, which is downloadable from Optoma's website.

Ok guys, I've just spent 3 days playing with HD81 #2. As I mentioned previously, it is definitely quieter and much easier to live with mounted above and behind my head. The color wheel is the source of the whine but it is acceptable and does not intrude with this unit..

Optoma has made substantive changes to the firmware from C04. HD81 #2 is loaded with C07 which came out 11/20/06. Other than a few additional words here and there that tell you what is happening, the major change I see is that the HDMI-Video level is now usable. My 3 HDMI sources, LG boxes, all interface nicely with the signal level set to video. My SVHS sources also work well at -7.5 IRE which is the Video level for the HDMI video input level also according to the instructions. The HDMI inputs are rock solid as are the memory saving properties of this rvised firmware. Optoma also resolved the over active auto Iris. I use it on auto without any problems. I used Kevin's and my original settings from #1 but I have a lot of red doing that. It is not right for this firmware. If nothing else is wrong, the firmware has changed the look of this projector. Mind you, I can see the crosshatch in the lettering of the text Optoma uses. I use that to focus the projector. Even so, I am getting multiple images and a lot of extraneous little artifacts around sharp boundaries. It tends to blur the image. I was going to put the other projector next to this one to compare but I am just too exhausted.

Bottom line: I wanted a new projector with updated firmware. Optoma obliged me and provided a hand picked unit that had been tweaked. Even so, the settings at the various inputs were unusable as received. I appreciate Optoma's kindness. Nevertheless, this unit, although much more stable, does not deliver a picture anywhere as sharp as the original unit. I am dismayed and do not know what to try next. It is watchable but whereas the original unit's picture could blow you away, this one looks subdued. Even the Optoma sign is not the bright white that I used to see. It is a rather dull white. I believe his is firmware.

Please do not write that I am an ungrateful SOB who looks at things negatively. Imay all of those but not here. I am reporting what I see as I promised. I look fforward to seeing John's when he gets it working. I would welcome hearing from anyone who has C07 loaded in their unit.



I just spent 3 days trying to get a picture that is as sharp and punchy as was the case with #1 projector. I have performed gray scale adjustments and attempted to set the color level to 6500 degress K. The projector runs out of red at IRE levels of 80. The blue At higher brightnesses the blue gets very predominant if you try to get it set at low and mid IRE levels. After spending over 6 hours adjusting and readjusting, I gave up. I could not get it anywhere near as close as I got #1. There is something else. It is like i am looking at something that is just out of focus. My wife commented on the fact that the original machine looked sharper. It did. Unfortunately, it did not remember its settings.

Ok guys, I've just spent 3 days playing with HD81 #2. As I mentioned previously, it is definitely quieter and much easier to live with mounted above and behind my head. The color wheel is the source of the whine but it is acceptable and does not intrude with this unit..


I just spent 3 days trying to get a picture that is as sharp and punchy as was the case with #1 projector. I have performed gray scale adjustments and attempted to set the color level to 6500 degress K. The projector runs out of red at IRE levels of 80. The blue At higher brightnesses the blue gets very predominant if you try to get it set at low and mid IRE levels. After spending over 6 hours adjusting and readjusting, I gave up. I could not get it anywhere near as close as I got #1. There is something else. It is like i am looking at something that is just out of focus. My wife commented on the fact that the original machine looked sharper. It did. Unfortunately, it did not remember its settings.

Art,

Some good and some bad eh? Well It does seem that Optoma is stepping up to the plate here and supporting the users. Hope this continues so we all can get ours pdated without the hassle of sending it in. Although the image on your new unit has me scratching my head. Maybe we don't want an upgrade from C06 until this gets resolved.

My HD81 is still sitting just outside my theater waiting for me to finish the drywall. The 5/8 is done and the ceiling is done completely with the 1/2 and 5/8 complete with the green glue. Next - caulk, joint compound and sand sand sand! Then paint. Ceiling flat black and walls a flat goldish color to match the carpet stars.

Carpet is to be installed a week from Thursday and the Berkline 090s will be delivered the next day. Should be ready for a Christmas opening. The lobby will not be finished as we have not ordered the marble tile - but the chandelier is here! Gotta love a wife that supports the arts!

Best,
John

Art,

I am intrigued by your findings. First, I don't understand how firmware would change sharpness/add multiple images/artifacts to a cross hatch pattern. I could see the NR
circuit softening the image--but I have found the circuit to not do anything. Or a change
in the sharpness circuit range--but you probably didn't run that much higher than 0 or 1.

I had C06 and updated to C08 and didn't see any difference in sharpness/detail/focus. You are also saying that overall lumens seem to be down compared to your first projector.
Is a different bulb being used? Maybe you could exchange bulbs and lenses.(One at
a time.) How does this lens look as far as CA and corner focus vs. the first one?

I am also perplexed about your findings regarding black setting. Unless I use DVI-PC
for HDMI inputs, my brightness is nowhere near 0-4 range. When using component
or composite and 7.5IRE, I have to reduce brightness to -20.

Auto iris was already slowed down for C06, but I've seen it change mid-scene for no
apparent reason. I don't use it.

I have had settings change on me with both C06 and C08. I did notice that using Kevin's
component settings with CO8, I'm seeing a red push on skin which I don't remember with
CO6. I've reduced overall saturation, but might try reducing R contrast instead.

My ISF calibrator said he would try to come out prior to Christmas and this should give me
a better idea of how the HD81 with this firmware does for 6500K and tell me what how he
thinks the black levels should be set.

This is all a bit mysterious, and my having C08 vs. C07 could make our comparisons differ.

Jeff Regan

I sure do appreciate all you going before me and others. I hope when I'm ready to purchase sometime in January that we have answers to a lot of these questions. It is very interesting but confusing how each firmware update seems to have different impact on different units.
I plan on seeing my first Hd-81 this week and am going crazy with the wait. Thanks again to all for the very informative posts...

Jeff,

I watched a lot of TV in the last few days. So much, in fact, that I had to put new batteries in the remote. Unless there is significant sample to sample variation in the TI chips, I have to believe my differences are caused by firmware. The level settings for all the inputs looked terrible as delivered. They were completely different than #1's settings as delivered. I've got HDMI looking pretty good now. The results of my color temperature and gray scale adjustments did not produce usable results. I inputted Jeff's YPrPb settings everywhere and it looks nice. I am back to constant adjustments though. It may be that my Progressive Labs first generation sensor is not compatible with this DLP. The engineer who sells these "reference devices" says that I need a newer unit and that the one I have is not appropriate for this DLP. I've used this device successfully for years albeit not on DLP projectors.

In answer to your questions... I use the barely perceptible pattern of crosshatch inside the white lettering to focus. It is very uniform out to 80% of the field. At the extreme edges, I see a little blurring of the crosshatch but hardly any. The cennter to edge focus is superb in my opinion. Sorry to be stupid or maybe it is out of touch but what is CA? This terminology is new to me. I'll be happy to comment if you tell me.

Where I am is that by using Kevin's component settings with HDMI (If Kevin provided HDMI settings for color temperature, please tell me where they exist.) and using AVIA to set the rest, I have a watchable, good picture through HDMI. Through component and S I can not get the picture correct. I was able to get sufficient color saturation only by setting Color Vividness to 3.

One last question Jeff... Are the settings inputted in each machine done by the QC person at the end of the production line? If not, then how are they determined. As I have said, #1 blew me and everyone who saw it away out of the box. This one is a different sstory. See if you can find this out.

BTW, I may buy a new refernce device. I would feel a lot better if I knew my gray scale was correct.

About the firmware. What's happened is part of the proceedure calls for having the scaler box opened up and a special hook up has to be made. This problem has something to do with the new Sony PS3 and the firmware is all linked in one. After they iron out the Sony part future firmwares will be able to be done at home.

For now they said wait a few weeks till they get a final version. Then owners will have to send the scaler and projector in to Optoma. You would call in to the service area and setup up an RMA. I don't know if they'll cover the shipping expense on the way in but you might try and push for it. In the past mostly the didn't cover it, they just covered the ship back.

About the firmware. What's happened is part of the proceedure calls for having the scaler box opened up and a special hook up has to be made. This problem has something to do with the new Sony PS3 and the firmware is all linked in one. After they iron out the Sony part future firmwares will be able to be done at home.

For now they said wait a few weeks till they get a final version. Then owners will have to send the scaler and projector in to Optoma. You would call in to the service area and setup up an RMA. I don't know if they'll cover the shipping expense on the way in but you might try and push for it. In the past mostly the didn't cover it, they just covered the ship back.

Sorry Tom. I am really confused. What does the HD81 have to do with the PS3?

Joe

They're getting the Pioneer Blue Ray to test to see how the PJ handles 1080p24Hz. I'll bet part of the firmware problem is the Sonys 1080p60hz. Something wasn't right and a change was needed for 1080p60Hz.

FWIW,

C07 has a separate line item that refers to 48Hz. I do not own an HD DVD player so I have not tried this. I do know that line did not exist in CO4.

With that you could sync up a HTPC DVD or Bravo D1 V-incs DVD player that allows 48Hz custom res setups. Some place was selling Bravo D1's for $35 recently. For $35 it wouldn't hurt to test. Plus you buy your DVI to HDMI cable from Mono cables to save.

When you go 48hz panning motions get very smooth with film, but the opening titles of DVD in video get all wacked out. Once the movies going in film the smoothness kicks in. Many like the effect.

Here are some pictures of my small home theater with HD81, Panamorph UH380, and Stewart 2:35 ST130 screen.

Jeff Regan

Here are a couple of screen grabs of new C08 menu items:

Jeff Regan

Here are a couple of pictures of the 100" wide Stewart 2:35:1 fixed screen.

Jeff Regan

Nice Jeff. Looks like you are into cars (given the door on the wall and the movie playing). Doesn't Grand Prix look great?!

Nice Jeff. Looks like you are into cars (given the door on the wall and the movie playing). Doesn't Grand Prix look great?!

Rob,

Yes, right on all counts! Grand Prix is awesome--especially for a 40 year old film!!
Grand Prix and Jarhead are so bright on the HD81 that I have to back the iris down.

Jeff Regan

Some posts ago, I mentioned getting the Oppo DVD player and using its 480i HDMI output to connect to the Gennum. Well I went ahead an ordered an Oppo to try it out, and I was disappointed with the results.

Using the Star Wars IV scrolling text test that Greg Rogers has referred to in his last few reviews of 1080p projectors, I saw jaggies and twitter with the HDMI/480i output. It got a little better with component/480i, and it got worse with component/480p. I could really see jaggies in the angled part of Darth Vadar's helmet when he tells the storm troopers to go down and get the stolen plans.

I went back to the Toshiba HD-A1 using the HDMI/1080i output, and the text was smooth and no twitter and Darth's helmet was now a smooth line. I did this same test with the Cars DVD and noticed a big difference in any image with angled lines, which appear constantly with the "V" motif used so frequently in the movie.

I also looked at this issue using Digital Video Essentials and AVIAPro and the SMPTE test disc.

After getting my HDMI settings nailed down, I'm going to swing back and say that I prefer watching SD DVDs on the Toshiba HD-DVD player using HDMI/1080i.

Jeff, would you try the Star Wars "scrolling-text" test and see what you think. By the way, that is a nice looking set-up and your wide screen looks really w-i-d-e.

I went back to the Toshiba HD-A1 using the HDMI/1080i output, and the text was smooth and no twitter and Darth's helmet was now a smooth line. I did this same test with the Cars DVD and noticed a big difference in any image with angled lines, which appear constantly with the "V" motif used so frequently in the movie.

I also looked at this issue using Digital Video Essentials and AVIAPro and the SMPTE test disc.

After getting my HDMI settings nailed down, I'm going to swing back and say that I prefer watching SD DVDs on the Toshiba HD-DVD player using HDMI/1080i.

Jeff, would you try the Star Wars "scrolling-text" test and see what you think. By the way, that is a nice looking set-up and your wide screen looks really w-i-d-e.

Kevin,

That's interesting. I used the HQV test disc and the Toshiba A1 failed miserably
at 1080i/HDMI compared to my old Sony 7000 DVD player at 480i/component out.
More jaggies, late on film source cadence, couldn't deal with horizontal video crawl
over film.

I will check Star Wars, which I was watching the other day and found that I had
to back down color saturation due to too much red gain in flesh tones.

I must say, the 2:35 screen really does impart a different HT experience. I can't
imagine anybody installing a custom HT not giving anamorphic projection a look.

Jeff Regan

Fantastic pictures, Jeff. If those pics of Last Samurai don't convince you that you need a 2.35:1 screen then nothing will...

My projector is coming back from Optoma today with the upgraded firmware. Can't wait to try out some of the new features, but my anamorphic tests will have to wait till the Cineslide is released.

-Dave

My projector is coming back from Optoma today with the upgraded firmware. Can't wait to try out some of the new features, but my anamorphic tests will have to wait till the Cineslide is released.

-Dave

Thanks Dave. Which lens are you using with the Cineslide? Please let us know
what you think of your new firmware.

Jeff Regan

Thanks Dave. Which lens are you using with the Cineslide? Please let us know what you think of your new firmware.
I have an ISCO II. I've done some basic tests with it and it works quite well. I'm at about a 2x throw and I saw very little keystoning with the lens held in front of the projector. Much closer, however, and I don't think the lens is large enough to accomodate the image.

I'll definitely report on the new firmware. Wing said mine may have a few minor differences from yours (it is a few days newer) - primarily stuff related to the PS3 HDMI issues.

-Dave

Here are some pictures of my small home theater with HD81, Panamorph UH380, and Stewart 2:35 ST130 screen.

Jeff Regan

Jeff probably a dumb question, but is that the manual lens sled? If so how well does it control position and focus when moving into and out of 2.35 mode?

Thanks,

Glenn

I'll definitely report on the new firmware. Wing said mine may have a few minor differences from yours (it is a few days newer) - primarily stuff related to the PS3 HDMI issues. -Dave

Newer firmware? That's it, I'm taking my HD81 back to Optoma for the latest firmware! :D

Jeff Regan

Jeff probably a dumb question, but is that the manual lens sled? If so how well does it control position and focus when moving into and out of 2.35 mode?

Thanks,

Glenn

Glenn,

That's the Panamorph M380 motorized sled. It is very precise in its positioning
and focus does not change. It has two speeds, it comes in automatically depending
upon aspect ratio of the source material.

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

LOVE the Ferrari 308 door you've got hanging on your back wall!

Jeff,

LOVE the Ferrari 308 door you've got hanging on your back wall!

Somehow I'm not surprised you approve, with a forum name like Rosso_Corsa!

Forza Ferrari!!

Jeff Regan

[QUOTE=Kevin R. Anderson]Some posts ago, I mentioned getting the Oppo DVD player and using its 480i HDMI output to connect to the Genom. Well I went ahead an ordered an Oppo to try it out, and I was disappointed with the results. }

I also bought and tried out the Oppo for the 480i on HDMI. I didn't think it looked better but waited for my isf calibration to confirm it. SD DVDs were better upconverted from either my HD- DVD or my Bluray players . So don't waste your money. I have been waiting (and getting less patient) for a good solid firmware update to be available because the calibrator also confirmed what I also knew - that my iris is not functioning. He had not yet calibrated an HD 81 so called Optoma to get the codes to unlock the isf modes. It was Friday afternoon and the only tech available could not give him the information he needed to unlock and load them. I only want to send this in once. This is the first Optoma I have owned and although the HDMI picture quality is outstanding I don't think I will be such an early adopter next time. I am not impressed by the timliness of their fixing issues or lack of ability to provide a calibrator what should be simple info.

Thanks for trying that Oppo! I asked the original question as I need to get an HD/SD player or an HD player AND an SD player and I'm trying to debate what would go best with the HD81. I noticed that the XA2 is being released at the end of this month. As far as I can tell is does support 480i over HDMI although confirmation of this would be great. The XA2 thread is even longer then this one at 105 pages!! The other interesting things about this player are that it has HDMI 1.3. My receiver has an upgrade path to 1.3 which I will be taking to benefit from the audio enhancements although I guess that things like deep color are not going to be passed to the HD81? The player also supports 1080p/24 which sounds like a good thing to me but am I missing anything.....?

On another subject has anyone got the IR port on the scalar working with a Xantech block? I have tried a couple of different mono and stereo cables with no luck.

Jeff,

I am returning #2. PQ is nowhere as good as #1. It just looks fuzzy. Hope #3 works.

In answer to those who feel they ned an "ISF calkibration", whatever that entails, let me just say that this thing is awfully close to 6500 in the warm position. Mine was 6380-6680 for the range of brightnesses it can handle. It does run out of red rather early 80 IRE compared to a 3 gun CRT. Blue is much better than a CRT.

Some posts ago, I mentioned getting the Oppo DVD player and using its 480i HDMI output to connect to the Gennum. Well I went ahead an ordered an Oppo to try it out, and I was disappointed with the results.

After getting my HDMI settings nailed down, I'm going to swing back and say that I prefer watching SD DVDs on the Toshiba HD-DVD player using HDMI/1080i.

Jeff, would you try the Star Wars "scrolling-text" test and see what you think. By the way, that is a nice looking set-up and your wide screen looks really w-i-d-e.

Kevin,

My 1st gen. Sony 7000 at 480i/component looked smooth with the Star Wars opening titles, no jaggies on Darth's helmet. The Toshiba A1 also looked good
at 1080i/HDMI. Looks like the Oppo is the issue, which is strange given its great
reviews.

I used your component settings, but backed down color and red contrast and
find the image to be pretty close to your HDMI settings.

Jeff Regan

The XA2 thread is even longer then this one at 105 pages!! The other interesting things about this player are that it has HDMI 1.3. My receiver has an upgrade path to 1.3 which I will be taking to benefit from the audio enhancements although I guess that things like deep color are not going to be passed to the HD81? The player also supports 1080p/24 which sounds like a good thing to me but am I missing anything.....?

On another subject has anyone got the IR port on the scalar working with a Xantech block? I have tried a couple of different mono and stereo cables with no luck.

I hope the Toshiba XA2 with its 1080p/24 output will work well with the HD81 in
48Hz film mode, as this is simpler than dealing with a 60i signal with 2:3:2 frame
cadence. As far as HDMI 1.3, lets just hope it works with the HD81, hopefully now
that PS3 issues are being addressed, it will carry over to the XA2 and other HDMI
1.3 sources.

I cannot get my processor to work with my Xantech block because my block is
mono I guess. Wing said the processor wants a stereo connection.

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

I am returning #2. PQ is nowhere as good as #1. It just looks fuzzy. Hope #3 works.

Art,

It sure would be great to find out what is going on with that 2nd HD81. Let us
know how #3 compares. Do you still have #1 at home to compare to? I just
don't see how firmware could affect softness or lumens. So much for "hand picked".

I watched Mi3 and King Kong this week and the images were breathtaking. Amazing
detail and three dimensionality, fantastic contrast--the night shots in Shanghai in
Mi3 were the best night time images I can remember seeing ever on a projector.

Jeff Regan

I hope the Toshiba XA2 with its 1080p/24 output will work well with the HD81 in
48Hz film mode, as this is simpler than dealing with a 60i signal with 2:3:2 frame
cadence.

Will the new Tosh HD DVD really output 1080p24? I had heard it would only output 1080p60.

On another subject has anyone got the IR port on the scalar working with a Xantech block? I have tried a couple of different mono and stereo cables with no luck.

I haven't looked at the HD81 documentation but normally, you can't go directly from a IR output block to an input designed for a IR receiver. You need something like the device below for that interconnect.

http://www.smarthome.com/8175.html

Good luck and hope this helps!

<<Here are a couple of pictures of the 100" wide Stewart 2:35:1 fixed screen.>>

Nice setup! Are those B&W Matrix 801's? I have just finished my 2 year eBay search for 2 pairs of vertical 805's for surrounds plus one horizontal center channel 805 (the hardest to find), all of the same vintage as my 801's (around 1992). Remodelling of my home theater (also circa 1992) will hopefully be completed by spring (maybe the HD81 firmware will be downloadable by then), so I'll wait till the whole thing is up and running before deciding if I need a subwoofer. So far, my trusty 801's have provided enough deep bass. I just love these speakers!!

Luis

<<Here are a couple of pictures of the 100" wide Stewart 2:35:1 fixed screen.>>

Nice setup! Are those B&W Matrix 801's? I have just finished my 2 year eBay search for 2 pairs of vertical 805's for surrounds plus one horizontal center channel 805 (the hardest to find), all of the same vintage as my 801's (around 1992). Remodelling of my home theater (also circa 1992) will hopefully be completed by spring (maybe the HD81 firmware will be downloadable by then), so I'll wait till the whole thing is up and running before deciding if I need a subwoofer. So far, my trusty 801's have provided enough deep bass. I just love these speakers!!

Luis

Luis,

My HT uses B&W 802's in the front with THX center, 803's for side surrounds, 805 horizontals for back surrounds, Velodyne 15" sub for front, 10" for rear. The best
add-on has been two Butt Kickers for the sofa! Bass seems to be more than adequate for a 14'X13'5" room. :D

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

I use 2 VMPS STIII's in the front with a custom made VMPS center channel that mimics the STIII's sound. In the rear I use EV Sentry III's with an active low end EQ. I also use a pair of Dynaco A-25's at the sides. a Velodyne F1800R takes care of the .1 channel. If I could get a picture that looked half as good as my system sounds, I'd be in heaven. #1 now belongs to Optoma. #2 will go back Wednesday. #3 should be here Tuesday. #2's edges are blurry, not the GUI edges, the picture edges. For example, the boundary edge between two objects or an object and a background, appear fuzzy. Also, the graininess is outrageously awful as is the presence of blue fringing on the right half of the picture. ( It gets worse the further right from center one looks.) This is subtle and if I had not had a basis for comparison, I probably would have thought that this is the way digital projectors look.

<<My HT uses B&W 802's in the front with THX center, 803's for side surrounds, 805 horizontals for back surrounds, Velodyne 15" sub for front, 10" for rear. The best
add-on has been two Butt Kickers for the sofa! Bass seems to be more than adequate for a 14'X13'5" room.>>

Congrats and enjoy! A Velodyne 15" servo is what I have in mind if I need more bass. Next thing will be a hole on my 8' concrete ceiling to accommodate the Optoma's low offset. I think I'll pass on the Butt Kickers. Life is taking care of that very efficiently in my case!!

Luis

I think I'll pass on the Butt Kickers. Life is taking care of that very efficiently in my case!!

Luis

LOL :D

Jeff Regan

I haven't looked at the HD81 documentation but normally, you can't go directly from a IR output block to an input designed for a IR receiver. You need something like the device below for that interconnect.

http://www.smarthome.com/8175.html

Good luck and hope this helps!

I believe this device is the opposite of what we need. If I understand it correctly, the IR Linc takes an IR output and puts it on the Xantech circuit. I believe we want to take the signal on the Xantech circuit and "push" it into the HD81.

If the mono 1/8" jack won't work we can just use a single IR transmitter off of the connecting block.

Joe

Jeff et al,

Finally bebieve I figured out what is going on to produce the "not quite focused" picture. There are 2 possibilities.

1.) I see blue edges below and to the left of object transitions. In other words for whatever reason the blue image appears just below and to the left of the others. On my 96" wide screen, the width of the blue is 1/16th of an inch. One can see it from 8 feet away.

2.) I have commented on how quiet #2 is vis a vis #1. Today, I set the projector on "bright". A rumbling that sounded like when you blow bubbles through your lips, started up and would not go away although it changed pitch several times. When I returned bright to "off", the rumbling went away but a whine like #1 had began. It is low but definitely louder than when I received it last week.

I hope to connect #3 on Tuesday and be done with all this. To give you an idea of how annoying this is, I watched the Redskins beat the Saints this afternoon on my Sony KDL32-XBR950 using an OTA local Fox 720 feed. The flat panel 32" LCD produces amazing pictures with its 768 native resolution. No noise at all in the colors either!!!!!! Is no one seeing the video noise that I see? I know we had a discussion a hundred comments ago but how are you all dealing with it? Do the 2:35 lenses soften the picture so you do not see it?

I use an HD81 on a 130" 2.35 Screen Research acoustically transparent screen.
IThe biggest challenge was choosing the projector. I spent a day at CEDIA in September, which gave a chance to view a number of projectors. While I couldn't see them side-by-side, I could see them within the same day.

Ultimately I felt the HD81 offered a fantastic picture, especially for the money. While it didn't quite seem to have the pop of the 3-chip SIM2, I doubt anyone would notice unless they could view each within a few minutes of each other and it was $15,000 cheaper.

I initially had great worries from reading this forum. While I don't know anything about the experience of others, in my installation no one has ever noticed mosquito noise or rainbows in the Optoma. I have two rows of seats and the middle seat of the second row sits directly beneath the HD81. Due to a riser for the second row, there's only about 6'3" of clearance between the floor and the HD81 bottom.

Interestingly, that 2nd row center seat is the favorite sitting position of several family members. Even when they're in the theater by themselves, I find them sitting directly beneath the HD81. No one has ever mentioned fan noise and I have never asked if it bothers them.

I am also not inclined to "look for trouble". If the sound seems great and the picture enjoyable--and most of all my family and guests are happy--I am about as close to bliss as I'll ever hope to get.

I've learned a great deal about products and what to look for from all the people that participate in this forum and I thank everyone that has posted their problems and successes. I've also learned that it is easy to mistake the problems that are occasionally experienced by individuals as systemic to a product. Before going to CEDIA, I was nearly at the point of putting theater completion off by a year and waiting for products to mature. By doing so I would have undoubtedly bought better equipment for less money. But I would have missed a year of enjoyment and there's really no way to put a price on that.

In my experience, the HD81 is more than capable of presenting a fantastic picture and allowing the emotion of the content to come shining through. I'd certainly buy it again.

Art,

It sounds like you are having an optical issue, you are seeing chromatic abberations. Have
you looked at a cross hatch with different iris settings?

The color wheel whine is not a good sign, especially since you're experiencing the same problem on two projectors now.

I see noise, especially from satellite on low light scenes, but I see the same on my 32"
Sharp LCD display. I do not find the dithering noise to be objectionable from normal
viewing distances.

I do not find my Panamorph UH380 to be softening the image much at all. I hope HD81 number 3 does the trick. I am able to watch most movies that have good transfers without
being pulled out of the experience due to image issues, and that's what's most important
to me, as I'm sure it is for you. Best of luck.

Jeff Regan

I believe this device is the opposite of what we need. If I understand it correctly, the IR Linc takes an IR output and puts it on the Xantech circuit. I believe we want to take the signal on the Xantech circuit and "push" it into the HD81.

If the mono 1/8" jack won't work we can just use a single IR transmitter off of the connecting block.

Joe

I may have misunderstood what you were trying to accomplish. I downloaded the manual and the IR accessory appears to be an external input device to allow you to put the scaler in a cabinet and have the IR control eye located externally. If you are trying to use the IR jack on the scaler as an output to a Xantech block, I don't think that is possible.

My impression was that you wanted to control the scaler from an existing Xantech IR system. The simplest way to accomplish that objective is to simply put an IR emitter from the Xantech block over the IR eye on the scaler. The IR Linc should also allow you to accomplish this objective but you will have to add the properly wired stereo (tip,ring,sleeve) plug to raw leads from the IR Linc output and plug it into the IR input jack on the scaler.

LearningHT, I myself decided on 13' wide SMX acoustically transparent screen and I have this projector as one of the contenders for my new HT along with RS1.

Please can you share your setup with projector to achieve CIH? I mean if you use any scaler, anamorphic lens, etc. My room has total light control and is 30' Long.

Thanks

I use an HD81 on a 130" 2.35 Screen Research acoustically transparent screen.

I'm not sure if this is an issue with the HD81, the Gennum processor or not an issue at all - but do any of you ever see a very fine line on 2.35 movies, about 1" from the top and bottom of the picture?

I don't see this on all DVD's, and not on any 16:9 material (which completely fills my 16:9 screen), but I do see it on some 2:35 DVD movies.

I was at Optoma today and was told Optoma may announce at CES a new version of the HD-81 which will be designed for larger screens. I think he said up to 200 inches. He said it may have 2000 lumens but he was not very exact in his comments. He said it was for smaller commercial applications not for personal Home Theaters (whatever that means?).

Anyway thought I would pass this little info along.
Weatherby

Simple,

The line of which you speak has been present on both of the samples I have dealt with in my home. I displace the field upwards until the line disappears.

I was at Optoma today and was told Optoma may announce at CES a new version of the HD-81 which will be designed for larger screens. I think he said up to 200 inches. He said it may have 2000 lumens but he was not very exact in his comments. He said it was for smaller commercial applications not for personal Home Theaters (whatever that means?).

Anyway thought I would pass this little info along.
Weatherby

Hmm...I would like to hear the fan on this one. :D

HD81 is already the brightest of the 1080 bunch -- instead of working on brighter projector they better introduce one with lens shift and good firmware.

Having said that, isn't HD81 build on Optoma's 910 model which I believe is for commercial applications ? Why do they need another one ? Anybody heard any news about HD81 successor -- there was a lot of talk about next version with lens shift when news about HD81 offset hit the street.

Cheers, Davie.

Wasn't the HD81 announced at CES last year and then shipped early fall 2006. Consumer electronics have a shelf life of about 18 months so the timing seems about correct

I heard about another product that Optoma is working on, an "affordable" projector/anamorphic lens setup. The impression I had was that this would not be a 1080p projector. Anamorphic 2:35 for the masses!

Jeff Regan

Kits, I have not yet accomplished the anamorphic lens. I plan to do that in Jan. when the Optoma firmware upgrade path is more refined. I'm finalizing my lens order. I want a motorized unit. I'm leaning toward the ISCO III but Jeff Regan's reports of his Panamorph install is tempting. I saw the Optoma/Schneider lens at CEDIA and it looked great. One thing about Optoma though, their new product delivery schedules are rather Optoma-istic. The HD81 delivery was about 5 months later than projected and I don't want to wait that long for an Optoma lens solution.

I'm gathering prices on available lenses/transports now and will decide this week. I'll let you know as the project progresses.

The line of which you speak has been present on both of the samples I have dealt with in my home. I displace the field upwards until the line disappears.

How do you displace the field upwards?

Use vertical shift.

Anyone using this projector with 3 rows of seats and not having a problem in certain rows not able to view bottom of the screen?

I am going to have 3 rows in my theater. 2nd row is on a riser 8" high, 3rd row is 12" higher than 2nd row which means 3rd row is 20" from floor. I created a virtual CIH screen that is 140" wide with bottom of screen 20" above floor and unless the person in first row reclines or no one sits in there, he ends up blocking some view for second row. 3rd rows view is somewhat blocked by second row persons head but that is very minor issue. The main problem with 3rd row is the eye is in line with a point on screen that is way above middle of the screen and it doesn't look good there.

So, I am little confused with this projector as it's main advantage is that it can be used with a large screen. My room is 30' long so I wanted to get atleast 140" wide 2.35:1 screen. But, the fixed offset on this projector is not helping me use large screen even though my ceiling is 8'9"

I want to know if tilting the projector effects the picture in anyway and how much it helps and how it should be done. I tried looking in this thread but I need to take few days off to go through it :-)

Thanks

I heard about another product that Optoma is working on, an "affordable" projector/anamorphic lens setup. The impression I had was that this would not be a 1080p projector. Anamorphic 2:35 for the masses!

Jeff Regan

HD72 (which is 720) is capable of anamorphic lens setup -- I think that masses already got it :) -- now we just need more affordable 1080 DLP -- preferably with lens shift and no firmware bugs ;) .

So, I am little confused with this projector as it's main advantage is that it can be used with a large screen. My room is 30' long so I wanted to get atleast 140" wide 2.35:1 screen. But, the fixed offset on this projector is not helping me use large screen even though my ceiling is 8'9"

I want to know if tilting the projector effects the picture in anyway and how much it helps and how it should be done. I tried looking in this thread but I need to take few days off to go through it :-)

Kits, as you undoubtedly know, the answer is to get the screen higher up on the wall. That'll help immensely with sightline problems. Of course, there's the whole issue of offset to deal with.

My 130" wide Screen Research screen is mounted on a tilt. Top is nearly 5" further out than bottom. I used 6" long bolts at top. We simply mounted the projector and tilted it up so the light struck the top of the screen. Then we adjusted the bolts until the picture appeared square. It took about 15 minutes, including figuring out how to get the projector tuned on and showing a picture for the first time.

My ceiling is about 5" lower than yours. The top of screen is about 15" beneath the ceiling, leaving about 30" of space from screen bottom to floor. In retrospect, I could have raised the screen another 6" or so but I have the clearnace I need for all sightlines, so I didn't bother.

There's a calculator available within this forum and it is a good starting point. Don't be too intimidated by its numbers though, which show the theoretical "perfect" setup. The human eye is pretty forgiving of small deviations. An inch of keystoning won't be noticed across your 140" screen.

I thought about 140" wide but ended up doing 130" because I wanted to have some margin for error and I didn't want to run the projector in bright mode. We're both using no-gain screens and brightness is a concern. I am pretty happy with the 130" size but I think the 140" would have worked. I don't look at my screen and think "wow, it'd be so much better with 10 more inches of width" though. The picture is impressive for the room size. But if 140" is your passion, I think you can do it.

Kits, as you undoubtedly know, the answer is to get the screen higher up on the wall. That'll help immensely with sightline problems. Of course, there's the whole issue of offset to deal with.

My 130" wide Screen Research screen is mounted on a tilt. Top is nearly 5" further out than bottom. I used 6" long bolts at top. We simply mounted the projector and tilted it up so the light struck the top of the screen. Then we adjusted the bolts until the picture appeared square. It took about 15 minutes, including figuring out how to get the projector tuned on and showing a picture for the first time.

My ceiling is about 5" lower than yours. The top of screen is about 15" beneath the ceiling, leaving about 30" of space from screen bottom to floor. In retrospect, I could have raised the screen another 6" or so but I have the clearnace I need for all sightlines, so I didn't bother.

There's a calculator available within this forum and it is a good starting point. Don't be too intimidated by its numbers though, which show the theoretical "perfect" setup. The human eye is pretty forgiving of small deviations. An inch of keystoning won't be noticed across your 140" screen.

I thought about 140" wide but ended up doing 130" because I wanted to have some margin for error and I didn't want to run the projector in bright mode. We're both using no-gain screens and brightness is a concern. I am pretty happy with the 130" size but I think the 140" would have worked. I don't look at my screen and think "wow, it'd be so much better with 10 more inches of width" though. The picture is impressive for the room size. But if 140" is your passion, I think you can do it.

I agree with your offset comments. My screen is 120" wide and I have the top 4" more forward than the bottom of the screen. The projector is also tilted up and I have 1/4" of keystoning. Once I have the velvet installed on the perimeter of the screen I will never notice it. Actually, the only way I knew there was keystoning at all was to measure it on the screen itself.

Joe

PS3 problems , really mad about this after spending a small fortune on projector and dvd player.
There is big problems with the hdmi handshaking if I'm using my optical lead out to the amp. If I'm enable autodetect settings with the ps3 it works great but obviously without sound:(. Soon as I put the optical on it freezes and I get no playback on BLU-RAY movies. The games seem to work OK with hdmi and optical although ridge racer loses image sometimes and I have to pull the hdmi cable out of the scaller and it reappears.
I have phoned Optoma in the UK and told due to the ps3 being import they don't support it. So is there any work around anybody knows that I can do?
I could use component cables I assume but only 1080i would be displayed due to the 1080i componet limitation :( . Would I lose much image quality using 1080i settings over the 1080p.
Any help would be be great I'm a bit frustrated about it :)

PS3 problems , really mad about this after spending a small fortune on projector and dvd player.
There is big problems with the hdmi handshaking if I'm using my optical lead out to the amp. If I'm enable autodetect settings with the ps3 it works great but obviously without sound:(. Soon as I put the optical on it freezes and I get no playback on BLU-RAY movies. The games seem to work OK with hdmi and optical although ridge racer loses image sometimes and I have to pull the hdmi cable out of the scaller and it reappears.
I have phoned Optoma in the UK and told due to the ps3 being import they don't support it. So is there any work around anybody knows that I can do?
I could use component cables I assume but only 1080i would be displayed due to the 1080i componet limitation :( . Would I lose much image quality using 1080i settings over the 1080p.
Any help would be be great I'm a bit frustrated about it :)
I was experiencing a LOT of issues with the PS3 connected via HDMI when I had firmware C05. My issues mainly had to do with Blu-Ray playback (all Fox movies would hang immediately on startup).

The C08 upgrade that I received last week appears to have cleared up my PS3-related issues entirely. Unfortunately, getting C08 installed involves sending your projector and scaler to Optoma for upgrade.

I haven't played very much with anything else that has been fixed by C08.


-Dave

I have c06 and no option of getting the upgrade due to uk not supporting the ps3.
Is the upgrade via pc going to be viable or is it not going to happen.

Thanks.

You guys who are setting up a projector with intentionmal keystoning must have diffrent standards than I do. I find the lack of perfect geometry very hard to live with in a TV. I understand about compromise but an inch of keystone is way over my limit. When door frames tilt inward or outward or boxed menus are not square, I feel that I should correct the discontinuity. The bottom of my 96" wide picture is 16" off the floor. While many may say this is too low, I believe it to be ideal. At that height, the audio image is right where it should be, in the center of the screen, not above it, not below it. Dead center with a spread that spans the screen. While I have a center speaker, I only use it when guests are watching who are not seated in the sweet spot. (There is only one spot in a room where the audio image is correct.) I prefer to use the phantom center mode. My 7 ft. high speakers' midranges are at the geometric center height of the screen. It works guys. Keep that screen as low as possible. Otherwise, think about raising the speakers.

I have c06 and no option of getting the upgrade due to uk not supporting the ps3.
Is the upgrade via pc going to be viable or is it not going to happen.
Whether they support the PS3 or not is really immaterial. There are plenty of OTHER issues with previous firmwares and you should simply demand that they upgrade you to the latest and greatest (which will also hopefully fix your PS3 issues as an added benefit).

I don't understand the technical reasons why, but earlier firmwares (as in before C08) cannot be upgraded without sending to Optoma. The C08 firmware is supposed to allow future upgrades to be done by us end users via a PC RS-232 connection. Serious oversight, if you ask me, but really just one of many with this product. This experience has not given me a warm and fuzzy feeling about Optoma in general.

-Dave

Thanks Dave can you me some ideas on what I can raise as a problem to try and get the latest firmware.
Yeah I'm pretty mad that you are stuffed with the firmware version that cant be updated , we pay a lot of money for this kit £5000 and to be lumped with an hdmi incompatibility is bad.

They seem to be very uncooperative in the UK :(

Thanks Dave can you me some ideas on what I can raise as a problem to try and get the latest firmware.
Yeah I'm pretty mad that you are stuffed with the firmware version that cant be updated , we pay a lot of money for this kit £5000 and to be lumped with an hdmi incompatibility is bad.

They seem to be very uncooperative in the UK :(
Others can probably chime in and add more, but the most glaring one to me was that if you are on an HDMI input (which is set to PC video levels, not VIDEO) and you try to adjust the Color setting, the image gets completely washed out immediately. The only way to "fix" it is to switch to another input and then back again.

This bug made me give up on trying to calibrate the thing until it had been resolved.

-Dave

You guys who are setting up a projector with intentionmal keystoning must have diffrent standards than I do. I find the lack of perfect geometry very hard to live with in a TV. I understand about compromise but an inch of keystone is way over my limit. When door frames tilt inward or outward or boxed menus are not square, I feel that I should correct the discontinuity. The bottom of my 96" wide picture is 16" off the floor. While many may say this is too low, I believe it to be ideal. At that height, the audio image is right where it should be, in the center of the screen, not above it, not below it. Dead center with a spread that spans the screen. While I have a center speaker, I only use it when guests are watching who are not seated in the sweet spot. (There is only one spot in a room where the audio image is correct.) I prefer to use the phantom center mode. My 7 ft. high speakers' midranges are at the geometric center height of the screen. It works guys. Keep that screen as low as possible. Otherwise, think about raising the speakers.

Art,

At lease in my case it has nothing to do with the speakers. It more has to do with my ceiling height of 7.5'. I do not have the complete offset requirement available in my room to have the screen size that I wish (10 feet wide).

So I needed to compromise. However, I agree with you regarding the keystoning. I too do not like it. So in my case I tilted the screen forward and tilted the projector up. This method allows me to "fit" the projector in my room and still view the image without keystoning.

Even in the end though, my calculations were slightly off and I do have 1/8" keystoning over a 5.6 foot height. My screen is permanently mounted so there is not much I can do short of completely rebuilding it. I can only tell that the keystoning is there by measuring it and when the velvet frame is installed there will be definitely no way to notice it. Over time I hope my brain is enjoying the content so much that I forget about the keystoning. :)

Regarding your speaker placement, I don't understand not using the discreet center channel content when it is available. The content was encoded specifically for this purpose. Why run the signal through two speakers when that was not the intent of the creator? (If there is a mismatch between the LR and center speakers in regards to timber, etc. then I can understand the preference of not using the center channel.)

Joe

You guys who are setting up a projector with intentional keystoning must have diffrent standards than I do. I find the lack of perfect geometry very hard to live with in a TV. .......... The bottom of my 96" wide picture is 16" off the floor. While many may say this is too low, I believe it to be ideal.

Exactly, and that's the great thing about home theater. We each get to choose our own standards. Everything we do is a compromise of time, money and tradeoffs. I enjoy reading about your choices, even though I always don't share your belief of best setup.

The bottom of my 96" wide picture is 16" off the floor. While many may say this is too low, I believe it to be ideal. At that height, the audio image is right where it should be, in the center of the screen, not above it, not below it.

Art,

Remember that many of us have a row of seats to shoot over. I wish I could drop the screen but the calculations put me at the edge. I have a 9 1/2 foot ceiling and a 17 foot throw to a 60 inch high screen. I am praying that 24 inches is the right number. I worked it out weeks ago when I started construction.

BTW walls done, painting today, carpet tomorrow and Berklines 090s Friday, movies ???? I still have to hook everything up!!!

John

I just got my HD81 installed and I have tried it for couple of hours.
It has C06 and I am disappointed to find out that the very basic settings
like pedestal level for video-HDMI and color saturation setting don't work correctly.
HD72i I had temporarily didn't have this kind of problems at all.
This projector was a big investment for me and I think that products in this
price range shouldn't have such problems.

Could you please help me by explaining how can I make basic calibration
if, for example, color saturation doesn't do anything and if I look the image through
a blue filter, the saturation is not correctly set? Can this be achieved by setting gains
for each color? HDMI is the only connection type I am willing to use.

On the positive side, the image is very sharp and bright, the black level is clearly better than HD72i but still nowhere near CRT black. The large resolution
helps with digital artifacts like dithering etc. Also the build quality seems to be
sturdy and my initial impression is better than I expected.
Remote control is excellent.

I will probably wait couple of months for Optoma to release a working firmware
version and then send the projector for an upgrade. If Optoma can correct
these glitches in subsequent firmware versions and handles the upgrade well,
then I think I will be happy but if they forget their clients, then I will probably
look for my next projector from other manufacturers.

I will report more details after I have spent some time with the projector.

Kari

Ok, after couple of more hours of use:

I have found ways to work around the glitches I mentioned in my previous post. The user interface of the image adjustments was just a bit difficult to understand. I selected user mode for the color vividness and turned down contrast to something like -6 and then I was able to adjust the color. The contrast setting has some kind of effect to colors and it was like the setting 0 was already somehow clipping the signal. After these changes and using the manual setting of color temperature I was able to get the results I wanted. All this worked differently from HD72i. I also had to change the pedestal level to DVI-PC to reveal all information in the dark areas of the image.

First I tried some DVDs, but when I eventually played some BDs, the image this projector was capable of projecting was mind-bogglingly good! The difference between 1080p and 720p was clear, because I have seats at distance of about 1.3*screen width from the screen. When considering only the picture quality, I think HD81 is better than HD72i in every way. Also, when I selected Film mode and set gamma to -1 the image had the same kind of 3d quality I had with my old CRT projector but at the same time much more brightness than the old CRT (in my opinion, a very challenging scene in this respect is the opening of the movie "Alien"). Digital projectors also feel much more like a real film projector than a CRT, because brightness of one part of the image doesn't affect other parts at all. It is just like light coming through a film.

HD81 is louder than HD72i and when the projector is turned off the sound becomes much more pleasant for a little while before the device is completely in stand-by mode. I conclude from this that it is the color wheel which is making the irritating component of the noise but I am not sure. Anyway, I can live with it because I have previously owned a data projector and I got used to the noise. If you are an audiophile and like to listen the little nuances on multi-channel audio tracks (movies like the bar scene in "Lost in Translation", for example), then this projector is not the best choice unless you are able to hush it by some external means.

Kari

Ok, after couple of more hours of use:

I have found ways to work around the glitches I mentioned in my previous post. The user interface of the image adjustments was just a bit difficult to understand. I selected user mode for the color vividness and turned down contrast to something like -6 and then I was able to adjust the color. The contrast setting has some kind of effect to colors and it was like the setting 0 was already somehow clipping the signal. I also had to change the pedestal level to DVI-PC to reveal all information in the dark areas of the image.

Digital projectors also feel much more like a real film projector than a CRT, because brightness of one part of the image doesn't affect other parts at all. It is just like light coming through a film.

Kari

Kari,

I agree with your findings after my first few weeks with this projector. The RGB
Contrast is the same as what I would call Gain, and is how you tweak the individual color channels, RGB Brightness is how you tweak individual black levels.

What you have found with DVI levels is correct, DVI-PC must be selected even though the source is video, in order to see proper black detail.

People talk about how a CRT or DILA or LCOS display have a "film look". To me,
this projector looks like a 35mm projector image, as you commented. I love the
three dimensionality that the HD81 is capable of, and 1080p just smooths out
the image while resolving so much fine detail. For me, the HD81 gives me more
of a theatrical experience than the Sony CRT projector I had for many years.

I'm glad you are enjoying the Optoma so far. It has its quirks, but the pay off is
worth it, I think.

Jeff Regan

The optics of my HD81 are quite good but not perfect. Red and green colors are spot-on but I can see a blue fringing (is this the correct term, sorry for my bad English) on top of each pixels. It is about 0.8 pixel in height. In horizontal direction the focus is perfect. If I adjust the focus slightly, the blue fringing goes away, but then green fringing appears around the pixels. All HD81 owners, how good is your optics and focus if you look at the screen very closely (for example white text on a black background in the menu)?

I ordered UH380 lens because of many good reviews and screenshots on this forum and I should get the lens tomorrow. Initially, I was planning to buy a Prismasonic lense because they are a Finnish company, but when I tested their H1200 model in local store, it still had some CA. I think, I will probably mount the lens on L-shaped frame so that I can easily turn it 90 degrees (my projector is on a coffee table). This way I should be able to view 2:35:1, 16:9, and 4:3 materials all without black frames with better brightness and contrast and smoother image.

Kari

Phew! With so many negative technical issues still standing on the way of enjoyment (and Optoma's apparent reticence about providing software updates via Internet interfacing like everybody else does to boot), I am now looking for an alternative to the HD81 projector.

Too bad; the thing had a lot of potential... :(

-THTS

Don't be so quick to condemn a company for being reluctant about providing soft/firmware updates.

Given the potential for a) reverse engineering or even worse b) turning your projector into a boat anchor (and not a very good one at that; and should that be a warranty claim?) it is a very difficult thing to justify. We made our update for the VP-12S4 projector public last year for a short while and it didn't take long to change our minds too.

One more observation after toying with the projector:

I can actually affect the focus by adjusting iris setting. When I close the iris manually to value 12-16 I can get perfectly focused pixels with no CA but when the iris is open, then I have the blue fringing on top of each pixel i mentioned in my previous message.

Kari

One more observation after toying with the projector:

I can actually affect the focus by adjusting iris setting. When I close the iris manually to value 12-16 I can get perfectly focused pixels with no CA but when the iris is open, then I have the blue fringing on top of each pixel i mentioned in my previous message.

Kari

Kari,

This is not unusual for any kind of lens. I use Fujinon broadcast zoom lenses for
my high-end video cameras and they all exhibit CA when close to wide open, they
also drop off light level wise at the end of their zoom range. These are $9K to $20K lenses made for 2/3" CCD imagers.

My HD81 has blue fringing on horizontal lines when the iris is more open, happily,
the Panamorph UH380 does not add any CA. At viewing distance, I cannot see
the blue CA error. I have seen very obvious convergence error on some three
chip projectors.

Jeff Regan

I received the UH380 lens today and it is really good quality. The projected image is only very, very slightly softer than without the lens. I think there is little need for better lens than this in home theater installations. There could be small errors in the geometry of the image, but I cannot notice those without a ruler.

Kari

Don't be so quick to condemn a company for being reluctant about providing soft/firmware updates.

Given the potential for a) reverse engineering or even worse b) turning your projector into a boat anchor (and not a very good one at that; and should that be a warranty claim?) it is a very difficult thing to justify. We made our update for the VP-12S4 projector public last year for a short while and it didn't take long to change our minds too.

Dan,
Some did some of the end users mess up their machines when doing their own updates?

There is a potential problem if mistakes occur. Something to think about.

There's no HUGH technical issues with the HD81. First release had two problems that the users found.

1. Didn't remember 7.5 or video IRE, defaulted to 0 IRE or PC.
2. When revisting the color control slider the gamma would change.
Mine had no other problems.

Number one was fixed in the firmware I got and it also slowed the Auto-Iris responce to make it less noticable. As far as the color slider I'll avoid it after my graysale tuning which should be done anyway.

I can actually affect the focus by adjusting iris setting. When I close the iris manually to value 12-16 I can get perfectly focused pixels with no CA but when the iris is open, then I have the blue fringing on top of each pixel i mentioned in my previous message.
This is not a surprise since a camera lens works exactly the same way -- the larger the f-stop, the greater the depth of focus.

I use the manual iris setting and adjust it for the particular source material -- generally between 8-12.

Using a PLUGE pattern (or better yet, an IRE step pattern in 2-5 IRE increments) with the iris and gamma controls, you can arrive at some very satisfying settings for black level, contrast ratio, and focus.

I just got the new Progressive Labs colorimeter, so over Christmas I hope to recalibrate my projector and I will post the numbers of anyone is interested.

I mounted my third HD81 today. This one has C08. It is so quiet compared to 2 which was much quieter than 1. Optoma has attacked and succeeded in quieting this baby. I measured the SN at 29 dB at the same place I measured the other 2. The color wheel whine is gone. The third unit is a charm.

It looks superb out of the box. Like I reported with #2, the levels are set so as to make DVI-Video usable. I am so pleased. Geometrically it looks excellent although for the third unit in a row, I am observing blue fringing as I reported previously. My room has an 8 ft. ceiling. For a 96" wide picture, the bottom of the picture is 16 7/8" from the floor. At this height there is no keystoning of any kind.

Thank you Warren Pierce at Optoma USA. I am a happy camper. Persistence pays off. After 26 years of CRT projectors, this one was worth waiting for. Blacks are every bit as good and everything else is far better.

How much for the colorimeter Kevin. I almost bought one but found the $1,800.00 price tag too high.

I'm glad you are enjoying the Optoma so far. It has its quirks, but the pay off is
worth it, I think.

Jeff Regan[/QUOTE]

------------------

Jeff, very nice photos!!
I have a few more questions for you or others and a few notes:

Still researching the 2:35 screen .

When you are viewing a 2:35 source without the lens, am i correct in understanding that the image is not stretched wide but will have bars on the sides?

Whats your thoughts on the curved 2:35 screen?

Was the powered mount worth the price?

I found that optoma is offering the lens but at a $4000 price(out of my ballpark). They gave me a part number.
I will contact with panamoh on there lens and will try to get the lens from them.


While hitting the remote buttons I stumbled on the menu that is for serviceing, it looked quite interesting and shows all the previous versions and info. I quickly exited it for fear on messing somthing up.

When watching comcast 480p, the image is blurry, I thought the h81 processor would upscale it to 1080i but no differance. The techline had no answers. Any thoughts??

There is a "copy" setting on the H81 menu, I thought that it could be used for the upconversions but is am unable to save the settings I have selected, any idea what "copy" is meant to be? there is no real info in owners manual.

( Im using a denon 2910 dvd player that scales to 1080i and the image looks great. I set the dvd to 480p and let the h81 processr do the scaling and the image looks the same as the 1080i, so i was wondering if the problem is with the comcast signal. The comcast HD signal looks great(1080i).)

1gasman

Thank you Warren Pierce at Optoma USA. I am a happy camper. Persistence pays off. After 26 years of CRT projectors, this one was worth waiting for. Blacks are every bit as good and everything else is far better.[/QUOTE]

---------------------------

Mr HIFI, Is warren pierce the person to talk to about upgrading to c08 or is this an inside contact only??

1gasman

1gasman,

the projector/box remembers different image settings (user1/user2..) for each source/format combination. If you have, for example, found satisfying settings for your hd-dvd player and those are stored for hdmi1/1080i/user1 combination and you want to use the same image settings for another source, for example dvd player connected to hdmi2/480p, you can use the copy feature to copy those settings easily without retyping everything again.

I have used the center of the screen for my previous focus experiments/observations, but I noticed now, that in the corners the focus is not as good as in the center, but this is only a minor problem.

Another observation is that when I feed the projector from my upscaling DVD player, the optoma box scaling from standard PAL to 1080p is mostly like a linear interpolation of the signal producing a smooth but a little bit fuzzy image. When I use the DVD player to do the scaling to 1080i, it looks like it does some additional signal processing to the image (edge detection etc.).

Kari

After using the "copy" function, if you are already using the same source/format/memory bank combination which was the target of your copy, the settings are copied to the memory, but you have to select the mode again for the changes to actually come into effect.

Kari

Jeff, very nice photos!!
I have a few more questions for you or others and a few notes:

Still researching the 2:35 screen .

When you are viewing a 2:35 source without the lens, am i correct in understanding that the image is not stretched wide but will have bars on the sides?

Whats your thoughts on the curved 2:35 screen?

Was the powered mount worth the price?

I found that optoma is offering the lens but at a $4000 price(out of my ballpark). They gave me a part number.
I will contact with panamoh on there lens and will try to get the lens from them.
1gasman

1gasman,

Thank you. Yes, with a horizontal expansion anamorphic lens, it will take a 16:9
frame(with or without a 2:35 letterboxed image within) and expand it to the full
2:35 width, without the lens, you have the same side bars as you would with a
16:9 frame, because that's what it is.

A curved screen can be useful to address the barrel distortion that an anamorphic
lens can cause. I find the distortion to be minor and easily covered by my three
inch velvet frame. A curved screen can be expensive from a vendor such as
Stewart. I also feel like a masking system is not necessary in a dark room.

The motorized sled is expensive, but I use it a lot and am happy I don't have to
reach up to the ceiling to swing an anamorphic lens in and out. With the HD81,
you don't have to move the lens out, if you want to watch 16:9, you just use the
4:3 mode on the projector.

Buying the lens and motorized transport from Panamorph theoretically costs $5K
according to the normal retail price on their site, so Optoma's price looks to be lower. You might check with Jason at AVS to see what he could sell it for. Alternatively, you could hold off on the transport for now and just buy the lens--
it really is worth it if you watch a lot of scope movies.

Jeff Regan

Buying the lens and motorized transport from Panamorph theoretically costs $5K
according to the normal retail price on their site, so Optoma's price looks to be lower. You might check with Jason at AVS to see what he could sell it for. Alternatively, you could hold off on the transport for now and just buy the lens--
it really is worth it if you watch a lot of scope movies.

Jeff Regan[/QUOTE]

------------------
Thanks jeff for your detailed info.
the optoma price, $4000, was just for the lens alone, so I believe the Panamorph price is better unless in missing something.

1gasman

He is the one to talk to at Optoma.

After using the "copy" function, if you are already using the same source/format/memory bank combination which was the target of your copy, the settings are copied to the memory, but you have to select the mode again for the changes to actually come into effect.

Kari


---------------
Thanks kari, I will try that tonight.

1gasman

1gasman,

Thank you. Yes, with a horizontal expansion anamorphic lens, it will take a 16:9
frame(with or without a 2:35 letterboxed image within) and expand it to the full
2:35 width, without the lens, you have the same side bars as you would with a
16:9 frame, because that's what it is.

A curved screen can be useful to address the barrel distortion that an anamorphic
lens can cause. I find the distortion to be minor and easily covered by my three
inch velvet frame. A curved screen can be expensive from a vendor such as
Stewart. I also feel like a masking system is not necessary in a dark room.

The motorized sled is expensive, but I use it a lot and am happy I don't have to
reach up to the ceiling to swing an anamorphic lens in and out. With the HD81,
you don't have to move the lens out, if you want to watch 16:9, you just use the
4:3 mode on the projector.

Buying the lens and motorized transport from Panamorph theoretically costs $5K
according to the normal retail price on their site, so Optoma's price looks to be lower. You might check with Jason at AVS to see what he could sell it for. Alternatively, you could hold off on the transport for now and just buy the lens--
it really is worth it if you watch a lot of scope movies.

Jeff Regan


Hi Jeff,

I'm a newbie with this anamorphic lens topic. I just bought the HD81 a month ago along with a 16x9 screen. My question is if I only watch HDTV and HD/BD-DVDs, and these formats are already in 1.85, do I gain anything using an anamorphic lens?

Also, are you watching 2.35 HD/BD-DVD movies? Most HD/BD-DVDs movies I see are in 1.85 format. Are there any HD/BD-DVD movies in 2.35 format?

Thanks for the info.

Chuong

Chuong,

the video is stored on your typical HD/BD-disk in 16x9 format (1920x1080). Most movies are, however, 2.35:1 aspect ratio and therefore there are black horizontal bars in the image.

Because current digital projectors cannot reproduce black as completely black but a dark shade of grey, this will make the subjective contrast (think about the difference black frames around a picture make and also it is subjectively annoying to see the border between grey projected image and the actual black around it, because then your brains immediately recognize that the "black" is not actually black). Also the grey horizontal bars produce ambient light to your theater and if it is not a bat cave, this light contributes negatively to the objective contrast of the image.

Another problem with the grey bars is, that your digital projector loses its light output comparable to the area of the bars. With 2.35 image on 16x9 projector this means reduction of about 25% in maximum light output because the whole panel is not used.

You can fix these problems by using an anamorphic lens that optically stretches (or vertically compresses.. the basic principle is the same otherwise) the image horizontally by a factor 4/3. You need also to stretch the image with your dvd player or projector vertically by the same amount, so that the whole panel is used to show the image and the final image is in the correct 2.35:1 format (actually it will be 2.37:1 but the difference is small). Effectively you have no removed the grey bars from the image and gain the following advantages and disadvantages:

+ no grey bars -> better subjective contrast, no distracting border between grey/black
around the image (to me personally this is the greatest advantage of using a lens)
+ no reflected light of the grey bars -> little bit better objective contrast if not a bat cave
+ about 25% more brightness (with perfect optics, in practice this is a little bit less)
(you can also trade the added brightness to a bigger picture with the same brightness or
with an iris to better focus of the image)

- little bit smoother image because of added layer of optics (watch for CA here)
sometimes this can even be an advantage because it can make digital artifacts like
screendoor effect less visible
- scaling artifacts, because the player/projector must digitally produce 4 lines of data
from 3. Sometimes this can be an advantage, because low frequency data in the image
(smooth color transitions) can become smoother because of the additional
resolution in the display device. The negative effects are probably some kind of aliasing
errors in high frequency data (for example thin lines), I think. Somebody who has studied
a bit more digital signal processing could give you a more accurate description of this.
- possible geometric distortions caused by the lens
- reflections from the lenses to the room (this is especially a problem with cheaper optics)

With an anamorphic lens you can also affect the throw distance of your projector. This can be a plus or minus depending on your installation.

There are no HD/BD-DVD moves in native 2.35:1 format to my knowledge.

Kari

My wording was not accurate in the previous message:
I wrote that the anamorphic lens give 25% more brightness, but what I actually meant was that without the lens, only 75% of the light output is used.
Kari

I would agree with what Kari stated regarding anamorphic lenses and 2:35 aspect ratio movies within a 1:78(16:9) frame. Most bigger budget Hollywood movies are shot anamorphic
2:35 vs. spherical 1:85. Many of the HD DVD titles I own are 2:35 or 2:40 with the resulting
letterbox horizontal bars top and bottom.

Another advantage of an anamorphic setup is that after the HD81 scaler does a vertical expansion of the image, all pixels are being used for active image vs. wasted on black bars.

My HT room is small, only 13'5" deep, so this gave me an 80" wide 16:9 image with the HD81. By adding a horizontal expansion anamorphic lens, I was able to attain a 100" wide
image when watching 2:35 sources letterboxed within a 1:78 frame. There are times when
I'll even watch a 1:78 source(most HD satellite and cable) in 2:35. The top and bottom of
the image are chopped off, but many times the result is still pretty fun.

The best part of the 2:35 experience is that it is a more natural, immersive way to watch
the "scope" aspect ratio, when using a dedicated 2:35 screen. Much more of an event,
like watching a movie at a theater.

Jeff Regan

Buying the lens and motorized transport from Panamorph theoretically costs $5K
according to the normal retail price on their site, so Optoma's price looks to be lower. You might check with Jason at AVS to see what he could sell it for. Alternatively, you could hold off on the transport for now and just buy the lens--
it really is worth it if you watch a lot of scope movies.

Jeff Regan

------------------
Thanks jeff for your detailed info.
the optoma price, $4000, was just for the lens alone, so I believe the Panamorph price is better unless in missing something.

1gasman[/QUOTE]

Hi guys!

I believe the $4,000 lens is not a Panamorph, but rather the Schneider Anamorphic lens that was shown with the projector at CEDIA.

The Schneider is smaller than the Panamorph and should have excellent optics. Here is a link to more info:

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=91&IID=851

As you can see, Schneider lists the lens for $6,150, so $4,000 is a good deal from Optoma.

Hope that helps. :)

Michael

Chuong,

the video is stored on your typical HD/BD-disk in 16x9 format (1920x1080). Most movies are, however, 2.35:1 aspect ratio and therefore there are black horizontal bars in the image.

Because current digital projectors cannot reproduce black as completely black but a dark shade of grey, this will make the subjective contrast (think about the difference black frames around a picture make and also it is subjectively annoying to see the border between grey projected image and the actual black around it, because then your brains immediately recognize that the "black" is not actually black). Also the grey horizontal bars produce ambient light to your theater and if it is not a bat cave, this light contributes negatively to the objective contrast of the image.

Another problem with the grey bars is, that your digital projector loses its light output comparable to the area of the bars. With 2.35 image on 16x9 projector this means reduction of about 25% in maximum light output because the whole panel is not used.

You can fix these problems by using an anamorphic lens that optically stretches (or vertically compresses.. the basic principle is the same otherwise) the image horizontally by a factor 4/3. You need also to stretch the image with your dvd player or projector vertically by the same amount, so that the whole panel is used to show the image and the final image is in the correct 2.35:1 format (actually it will be 2.37:1 but the difference is small). Effectively you have no removed the grey bars from the image and gain the following advantages and disadvantages:

+ no grey bars -> better subjective contrast, no distracting border between grey/black
around the image (to me personally this is the greatest advantage of using a lens)
+ no reflected light of the grey bars -> little bit better objective contrast if not a bat cave
+ about 25% more brightness (with perfect optics, in practice this is a little bit less)
(you can also trade the added brightness to a bigger picture with the same brightness or
with an iris to better focus of the image)

- little bit smoother image because of added layer of optics (watch for CA here)
sometimes this can even be an advantage because it can make digital artifacts like
screendoor effect less visible
- scaling artifacts, because the player/projector must digitally produce 4 lines of data
from 3. Sometimes this can be an advantage, because low frequency data in the image
(smooth color transitions) can become smoother because of the additional
resolution in the display device. The negative effects are probably some kind of aliasing
errors in high frequency data (for example thin lines), I think. Somebody who has studied
a bit more digital signal processing could give you a more accurate description of this.
- possible geometric distortions caused by the lens
- reflections from the lenses to the room (this is especially a problem with cheaper optics)

With an anamorphic lens you can also affect the throw distance of your projector. This can be a plus or minus depending on your installation.

There are no HD/BD-DVD moves in native 2.35:1 format to my knowledge.

Kari

Thanks Kari & Jeff for much information.

Being new to anamorphic, I'm still have a few questions. First, you said the movie is stored in 16x9 format, then shouldn't I have a full image on my 16x9 screen. My Toshiba HD-A2 will not arrive until next week, so I don't know if the HD movie will fill the entire screen or not. But I thought if the formats of the movie and the screen are the same, then I should get the full image. Similar to HDTV in 16x9 format which fills up my whole screen.

From the two emails, my understanding is that from my HD-DVD movie, I will get a 2.35 image on my 16x9 screen, so I have black bars at the top and bottom, which are wasted pixels. If I use an anamorphic lens, then the VXP will vertically stretch the image to the full 16x9 screen, and I'm not wasting any pixels. Then the anamorphic lens will compress the 16x9 image back to the 2.35 format, and I end up with the same size image as the original 2.35, but it's brighter and smoother because of the higher resolution. Also, the black bars generated by the projector are gone. I will still see black bars on my 16x9 screen, but they are the absent of light, and true black. Is this correct?

In Jeff's case, Jeff has expanded his image using a horizontally anamorphic lens. This is done after the VXP stretches the image vertically. So Jeff actually ends up with a bigger 2.35 image size than the original 2.35. But the resolution is not better because although the image is stretched vertically and use more pixels, but it also got stretched horizontally, so the resolution remains the same. Jeff's image is also not as bright as the original 2.35 because it is bigger. Is this correct?

Also, anamorphic lens will not work with a 16x9 source, such as HDTV. Since the 16x9 source is cropped by the 2.35 screen, this setup is for dedicated movie-philes.

So, if I already have a 16x9 screen, the vertically compressed anamorphic lens will give me 3 benefits. First, the PJ's generated black bars are eliminated. Second, the image has more resolution. Third, the image is brighter.

Thanks for all your help,

Chuong

Chuong,

Now you've got me interested. Good job of laying it out. With my CRT set I vertically compressed the images to use the full resolution. It would be nice to be able to do that again and get rid of the grey bars on the top and bottom of the 2.35 picture. One question... What will the addition of the Scneider Lens do to my throw distance? I can not tmove the projector back further. I have a 96" wide screen.

Chuong,

First, you said the movie is stored in 16x9 format, then shouldn't I have a full image on my 16x9 screen.
If you want to use 16x9 screen, then using a vertical compression lens allows you to use the full screen for 16x9 content when the lens is removed from the light path. You should check, however, what is the recommended throw ratio of the projector (throw distance/image width) for the lens. Not all lenses are compatible with all projectors (check also that the lens is big enough and can be mounted close to the lens of the projector). I think that vertical compression lenses have usually a different recommended throw ratio compared to horizontally expanding lenses. If you use wrong kind of lens, there maybe greater geometric distortions to the image. Many people like horizontally expanding lenses and 2.35:1 screens because this way the height of 16x9 and 2.35:1 image are the same and you can use for example curtains on the sides of the screen to mask the screen, just like in many real movie theaters.
I will still see black bars on my 16x9 screen, but they are the absent of light, and true black. Is this correct?
Yes, you are correct.
So Jeff actually ends up with a bigger 2.35 image size than the original 2.35. But the resolution is not better because although the image is stretched vertically and use more pixels, but it also got stretched horizontally, so the resolution remains the same. Jeff's image is also not as bright as the original 2.35 because it is bigger. Is this correct?

If you use horizontally expanding lens, the image will be bigger than without the lens. If wider image doesn't fit your room, you could move the projector closer to the screen and make the image smaller this way. The word "resolution" is probably a little bit ambiguous here: when I say resolution, I mean pixels/picture and do not consider the viewing distance. Basically, you can think that the projector outputs a constant amount of light (this is not entirely true, because many zoom optics allow more light, when the image is zoomed as big as possible) which is distributed evenly to the projected image. If the light output of the projector is L and the area of the image is A, then the brightness of the image is approximately L/A. You can always trade brightness to a bigger picture. The question about the resolution is actually a bit more thorny: if the original image is stored in 1920x1080 format and you are using native 1080p projector, then the projector should be capable of revealing all information contained in the source even without the lens. With anamorphic lens more pixels are used to show the same image, but to explain everything that happens here requires a very long explanation. By using more pixels, the image can look smoother and screendoor effect is diminished, for example, but do not buy an anamorphic lens for sharpness if you have a 1080p projector. If you are using a 720p projector and you can do the stretching of 1080p signal in the hd-dvd player (or feed the projector with a 1080p signal), then you could, actually, get more image details with a lens. If the projector does the strecthing and you scale down the source in the player to 720p, the the projector cannot "invent" new details to the image.
Also, anamorphic lens will not work with a 16x9 source, such as HDTV. Since the 16x9 source is cropped by the 2.35 screen, this setup is for dedicated movie-philes.

You are correct. Jeff is using the motorized sled to move the lens away from the light path when he views 16x9 material. The sled is controlled automatically by the aspect ratio control of the projector, so it is very easy to use, but quite expensive. I myself didn't have the budget for the sled so I am manually removing the lens when viewing 16x9 content (I have a coffee table mount).

Kari

A horizontal 16x9 expansion lens, like the Schneider lens, will expand your 16x9 image sideways. It will change the throw ratio and you need a wider screen.

There are Panamorph and Prismasonic lens that will vertically compress your 16x9 image into 2.35, in this case, they won't change your throw ratio or your screen. Panamorph and Prismasonic also make horizontal expansion 16x9 lens.

chuong,

With horizontal 16x9 lens, you get to use the full 1080p pixels to "interpret" the 2.35:1 image, meaning you are using more pixels (i.e. vertical resolution) on the same 2.35:1 image. So you do get more resolution. Also the image, though bigger in size, will give you more brigthness as well. Before the 16x9 lens, there are about 1/4 of the lamp power wasted displaying distracting black bars. With 16x9 lens, you get 25% brighter image (full lamp), then expand to bigger image which then of course reduces the ft-L slightly.

If you prefer to have a brighter, more intensity 2.35, use vertical compression 16x9 lens. If you want a Constant Height Cinema, use expansion lens, this gives you wider viewing experiences the 2.35 Scope film was meant to be.

To all HD81 owners (and owners to be),

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! :)

One more thing about anamorphic installations:

When watching a foreign language film with subtitles, many players position the subtitles to the bottom of the 16x9 image, that is, mostly over the bottom black bar. If you now use the stretching functionality of the projector, you cannot anymore see the subtitles in the 2.35:1 image. This is why it is better to do the stretching in the dvd player, if it has that feature (at least my samsung dvd player can do this, they call the feature "ez view" or something like that). Also, if your player has a feature, which allows you to move the position of the subtitles, then you can use the stretching of the projector or video processor.

Kari

Some great info about anamorphic setups, good to hear from TzungILin. I would recommend checking out the AVS 2:35 Constant Image Height forum and Panamorph's site for more info.

Regarding the Schneider lens and Optoma, I don't believe that Optoma is offering the Schneider as originally planned. The $4K was for the Schneider through Optoma. Optoma
is now distributing the Panamorph UH380/M380 combination--the M380 transport even has
a backlit Optoma logo on it. I believe the UH380 horizontal expansion lens is $2500 through Panamorph, and could be less through Optoma or AVS. It offers the best quality
for the dollar, IMO. The Schneider is very slightly sharper and a tiny bit better in light
transfer efficiency. The Panamorph excels in not having any noticeable CA and a large
aperture. When Optoma tested the UH380 against the Schneider, and ISCO II and III,
they were so impressed that they went forward with a deal with Panamorph.

Jeff Regan

I am not remounting anything. My wife has had it with me and thinks I have lost it. I am looking for a second generation HD DVD player. That will fill the 16x9 screen and eliminate the pesky gray bars I get from 2.35 films. Interestingly, i always loved the 2.35 DVD's on my CRT projector because I could squeeze the vertical image down with the Transcanner and the HD700's vertical size controls. The resulting picture was every bit as nice as this projector's 2.35 image projected on a screen that is vertically larger. Soon, I hope to be watching HD format films exclusively

Chuong,

How will you listen to HD Dolby or True Dolby or whatever it is that will only come through the HDMI connector? This HD DVD player requires that you buy an audio receiver or processor with HDMI inputs. Perhaps you found a way around this. Please elaborate. My friends are staying away from this projector for this reaon...No analog or optical or coaxial connection for the HD Dolby audio.

I love #3. It works beautifully out of the box. Congratulations Optoma, you got it perfect AFAIC.

Art,

Third times seems to be a charm! That's great. One would think that digital projectors would be more consistent from unit to unit, but I read about inconsistent Sony SXRD projectors and a recent "lemon" BenQ 1080p unit and wonder.

Regarding HD DVD audio output options, no player model will do Dolby True HD via HDMI except, hopefully, the new XA2 with HDMI 1.3, but the receiver couldn't decode it anyway.
The HD81 does pass audio to a receiver via HDMI when looping through the processor,
but HDMi only supports Dolby Digital and DTS, not DD+ or Dolby True HD.

I use digital coax out with my A1 for Dolby Digital and DTS. DD+ and Dolby True HD requires using the players internal decoding and 6 analog outputs to a 5.1 inputs on a receiver/processor.

Unfortunately, the new Toshiba A2 does not have the 5.1 analog outputs, only the XA2, so
I would rather keep my A1 than buy a new A2. The XA2 has HDMI 1.3 and 1080/60p out.
This costs twice as much as an A1 or A2 and would be more useful if it offered 1080/24p
than 60p.

Jeff Regan

Chuong,

How will you listen to HD Dolby or True Dolby or whatever it is that will only come through the HDMI connector? This HD DVD player requires that you buy an audio receiver or processor with HDMI inputs. Perhaps you found a way around this. Please elaborate. My friends are staying away from this projector for this reaon...No analog or optical or coaxial connection for the HD Dolby audio.

I love #3. It works beautifully out of the box. Congratulations Optoma, you got it perfect AFAIC.

Art,

Found the following paragraph re: Dolby True HD interesting regarding "and/or dedicated analog inputs:

"To gain any real benefit from Dolby TrueHD, you will need to have an A/V receiver, as well as a complete 5.1 speaker setup. Your receiver must have an HDMI input, and/or dedicated analog inputs for at least 5.1 channels of information (your receiver's manual should tell you whether or not you have the correct inputs)."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature_introducingdolbytruehd.html

Art,

Found the following paragraph re: Dolby True HD interesting regarding "and/or dedicated analog inputs:

"To gain any real benefit from Dolby TrueHD, you will need to have an A/V receiver, as well as a complete 5.1 speaker setup. Your receiver must have an HDMI input, and/or dedicated analog inputs for at least 5.1 channels of information (your receiver's manual should tell you whether or not you have the correct inputs)."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature_introducingdolbytruehd.html

slackmack,

The Toshiba HDA1 and HDXA2 takes Dolby TrueHD and converts it to analog or to
DTS or LPCM over HDMI. TrueHD streams that have not been decoded must use
HDMI 1.3 and require a reciever compatible with HDMI 1.3 and Dolby TrueHD
decoder capability.

Jeff Regan

Has anybody tried a DirecTV HR20-700 HD DVR with their HD81? I just had one installed today and it works great via component but I get no signal via HDMI. Not sure if the HDMI is just broken on my HR20 or not.

I'm running firmware C08 FYI....

Thanks.

-Dave

Art, Dave... is C08 upgradeable via Internet as promised? Art, being the most critic in the forum, are you totally happy with it or you consider necessary further improvements? Thanks for all your comments! I am still waiting for Greg review but news on C08 seem promising indeed

Jose

He is the one to talk to at Optoma.

----------------
Thanks art, .

1gasman

Has anybody tried a DirecTV HR20-700 HD DVR with their HD81? I just had one installed today and it works great via component but I get no signal via HDMI. Not sure if the HDMI is just broken on my HR20 or not.

I'm running firmware C08 FYI....

Thanks.

-Dave

This has been done before so I'll ask you. Did you hook up the very small loop HDMI cable supplied with the accessories? Without it you get no out signal.

------------------
Thanks jeff for your detailed info.
the optoma price, $4000, was just for the lens alone, so I believe the Panamorph price is better unless in missing something.

1gasman

Hi guys!

I believe the $4,000 lens is not a Panamorph, but rather the Schneider Anamorphic lens that was shown with the projector at CEDIA.

The Schneider is smaller than the Panamorph and should have excellent optics. Here is a link to more info:

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=91&IID=851

As you can see, Schneider lists the lens for $6,150, so $4,000 is a good deal from Optoma.

Hope that helps. :)

Michael[/QUOTE]

----------------------
Thanks Micheal for the correct info.

1gasman

I find nothing to criticize on this unit including the firmware.

Jeff,

I did not find any analog outputs on the A2. Am I missing something?

Chuong,

How will you listen to HD Dolby or True Dolby or whatever it is that will only come through the HDMI connector? This HD DVD player requires that you buy an audio receiver or processor with HDMI inputs. Perhaps you found a way around this. Please elaborate. My friends are staying away from this projector for this reaon...No analog or optical or coaxial connection for the HD Dolby audio.

I love #3. It works beautifully out of the box. Congratulations Optoma, you got it perfect AFAIC.

Hi Art,

I listen to uncompressed HD DTS through the 5.1 analog outputs on the A1. I have a Lexicon MC-8 that has 5.1 analog inputs. I compared the 5.1 analog inputs uncompressed DTS sound with the compressed Optical DTS output, and couldnt' hear any difference. You gain full bandwidth sound on the 5.1 analog channels, but the DAC in my Lexicon is much better than the DAC in the A1. So, I decided to get the A2 even without 5.1 analog outputs. I will use the Optical output on the A2 for audio. When the XA2 comes out, I will get that unit, and will have 1080p output, and HDMI 1.3.

Currently, Lexicon & Theta don't have any HDMI 1.3 processors yet. But within 6-9 months they will release a HDMI 1.3 processor. At that point, I will upgrade to that unit. Then I will have a full audio & video digital system. The problems with buying cutting edge technology. They cost too much, and hardware/software are not even available. You've found out first hand with 3 Optoma units.

Your friends should not stay away from the Optoma because it is not equipped with a good audio solution. The Optoma is a video projector. Actually, I'm surprised that the HD81 has that many HDMI inputs, and many other analog video inputs. The job of audio falls on the HD-DVD player, and a good audio processor like Lexicon and Theta. So far, I sank about $10k on my video setup, but my audio costs twice as much. It's will be very difficult to find a video box that will satisfy all your audio needs.

Chuong

Jeff,

I did not find any analog outputs on the A2. Am I missing something?

Hi Art,

There are no analog outputs on the A2. You will have to use Optical or Coax for digital DTS, and will not have full bandwidth DTS sound.

Chuong

Chuong,

Now you've got me interested. Good job of laying it out. With my CRT set I vertically compressed the images to use the full resolution. It would be nice to be able to do that again and get rid of the grey bars on the top and bottom of the 2.35 picture. One question... What will the addition of the Scneider Lens do to my throw distance? I can not tmove the projector back further. I have a 96" wide screen.

Art,

There are two ways to do anamorphic.

1. Use a VC-Vertical Compression Lens which will vertically compress the VXP's vertically stretched image. You will end up with the same 2.35 image size as before, but you gain ~20% in brightness and vertical resolution, but horizontal resolution remains the same. The projector's artificial black bars are gone, but are replaced by true black bars (which are the result of the absent of light, so they will be as black as your frame). In this case, your throw distance remains the same. But for a $2,500 VC lens, that's a lot to pay just to get real black bars. The brighter image is not a big plus since the projector is plenty bright enough for my 105" wide screen. The gain in vertical resolution might worth something though.
Also, your HDTV 16x9 source is not affected. No cropping of the top and bottom.

2. Or you can use a HE-Horizontal Expansion Lens which will stretch your image horizontally after the VXP stretched it vertically. In this case, you end up with an image ~20% bigger than your original 2.35 image. But now your image's width is wider than your current 16x9 setup. The vertical image will fill the entire height of a 16x9 screen. So the height of the image remains constant. Since you have a bigger image, you need a wider screen, and you need to move your PJ further back. This will not work for you. To create a bigger 2.35 image, the VXP adds more info to the black bars' area. But the image is not vertically compressed, so the vertical resolution remains the same. However, your horizontal resolution decreases because the HE lens expands the image horizontally. Now, you are using more lamp power to put info into the black bars' area, so there is more light output from the lamp. However, you are expanding the image horizontally, and the PJ is further back, so the overall light at the screen is less than your original image.

Another catch is that you have to change your screen from 16x9 to 2.35. With a 2.35 screen you will get black bars on the sides when watching a 16x9 source like HDTV. If you watch a lot of HDTV like myself (football, basketball, tennis, and other silly TV shows that my wife like), then sounds like you just traded top/bottom black bars for side black bars.

Conclusion: if you are a real movie buff, and mostly watch DVD movies, and have $2,500 to spend, then option #2 is best. IMO, you get a bigger 2.35 image. My goal is to get the biggest screen size the projector can output, and still meet my own brightness standards. Of course, I still want a 1080p sharp image with vivid colors. With a 105" wide 16x9, I think the Optoma maxed out. I have the PJ on Brite mode all the time, contrast at 4, brightness at 7, to meet my minimum brightness standards. I can push the brightness a little bit more, but I will be sacrificing deep colors. After 100 hours, I think the Optoma lost about 10% of light output.

Art,

Toshiba A2 does not have analog 5.1 outputs, the A1, XA1 and XA2 does.

choungvu,

Good info re: anamorphic setups, however, in a horizontal expansion setup with
2:35:1 screen, there is no reason to move the projector back. The anamorphic
lens does the horizontal stretch creating the 20% wider screen, the scaler does
the vertical stretch. With my short throw due to shallow room dimension, the
HE anamorphic lens was the only way to attain a 100" wide image--the HD81
was already at the very back of the room to get an 80" wide image.

Jeff Regan

Art,

Toshiba A2 does not have analog 5.1 outputs, the A1, XA1 and XA2 does.

choungvu,

Good info re: anamorphic setups, however, in a horizontal expansion setup with
2:35:1 screen, there is no reason to move the projector back. The anamorphic
lens does the horizontal stretch creating the 20% wider screen, the scaler does
the vertical stretch. With my short throw due to shallow room dimension, the
HE anamorphic lens was the only way to attain a 100" wide image--the HD81
was already at the very back of the room to get an 80" wide image.

Jeff Regan

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for correcting me. At the beginning I thought the throw distance is not affected with the HE lens also, but TzungILin's post said that it does. So, I got a little confused.

Two questions, approximately, how much less light output is measured at the screen using a HE lens with the bigger image vs. the original 2.35 image? And, you should gain 20% in total area, that's Height x Width. Not 20% in width, and another 20% in height, that would be a 44% increased in total area?

Thanks,

Chuong

Chuong,

My understanding is that, because the horizontal black bars are removed, you gain 20% in
brightness as well as 33% more vertical resolution, as all projector pixels are being used for
active picture content. The Panamorph UH380 has about 97% light transfer efficiency.

If you compare the total active area of a 2:35:1 image letterboxed within a 1:78(16:9) frame vs. a horizontally and vertically expanded 2:35:1 frame due to vertical expansion scaling and horizontal expansion anamorphic lens, you get approximately 35% more
active picture area. Horizontal pixel density will be 25% lower and about 30% less light
per unit area compared to a 16:9 image.

Please read the 2:35 CIH Anamorphic forum FAQ and go to Panamorph's site for more info.

Jeff Regan

you gain 20% in brightness as well as 33% more vertical resolution, as all projector pixels are being used for active picture content

When the VXP stretches the image vertically and adds info into the black bars' areas, does the VXP add additional vertical resolution lines too? For example, if the original image has 1000 lines of vertical resolution, and the VXP adds 200 lines of info into the black bars' areas, does the final image have 1,200 lines of vertical resolution? Or does the VXP add more vertical lines to the entire image, and the image ends up with 1,333 lines?

Horizontal pixel density will be 25% lower and about 30% less light per unit area compared to a 16:9 image.

30% less light output, that's huge. With my current 105" wide 16x9 screen, if I go HE anamorphic, my width will increase to ~130", I'm afraid the Optoma is not bright enough to handle such large images. What do you think?

Chuong

the
HE anamorphic lens was the only way to attain a 100" wide image--the HD81
was already at the very back of the room to get an 80" wide image.

Jeff Regan[/QUOTE]

------------------
Jeff, so in my room, the projector is about 18 feet from the temporary srceen thats 90 inches wide (That screen sits between partition pillors that are 110 inches wide) . Does that mean I will get roughly 110 inches wide with an anamorphic lens and the projector in the same position?

1GASMAN

the
HE anamorphic lens was the only way to attain a 100" wide image--the HD81
was already at the very back of the room to get an 80" wide image.

Jeff Regan

------------------
Jeff, so in my room, the projector is about 18 feet from the temporary srceen thats 90 inches wide (That screen sits between partition pillors that are 110 inches wide) . Does that mean I will get roughly 110 inches wide with an anamorphic lens and the projector in the same position?

1GASMAN[/QUOTE]

From the front of my PJ-lens to screen distance is 17'6", and I'm able to fit a 105" wide image, and I don't have an HE lens. At this throw length, you don't need an HE lens.

Chuong

If I have to screw a lens in every time I want to vertically shrink the image, I will forget it. Last night I watched "Lady in the Water". Learned that the bottom of the screen is not as bright as the top. Otherwise, picture was incredible using factory setting for film and 7.5 IRE. Wow, the green monsters were so perfectly colored and the image looked three dimensional. No artifacts. I do need to level the projector. I think it sagged for some reason. God I love this thing.

If I have to screw a lens in every time I want to vertically shrink the image, I will forget it. Last night I watched "Lady in the Water". Learned that the bottom of the screen is not as bright as the top. Otherwise, picture was incredible using factory setting for film and 7.5 IRE. Wow, the green monsters were so perfectly colored and the image looked three dimensional. No artifacts. I do need to level the projector. I think it sagged for some reason. God I love this thing.

You don't have to screw in any anamorphic lens. The anam. lens is fixed mounted in front of the Optoma's lens. Or for a mere $2,500, you can buy a motorized lens that will automatically move out of the way for 16x9 sources.

Chuong

If I have to screw a lens in every time I want to vertically shrink the image, I will forget it. Last night I watched "Lady in the Water". Learned that the bottom of the screen is not as bright as the top. Otherwise, picture was incredible using factory setting for film and 7.5 IRE

Hi Art,

Did you use 7.5 IRE because you don't see enough details in the dark scenes.

Chuong

When the VXP stretches the image vertically and adds info into the black bars' areas, does the VXP add additional vertical resolution lines too? For example, if the original image has 1000 lines of vertical resolution, and the VXP adds 200 lines of info into the black bars' areas, does the final image have 1,200 lines of vertical resolution? Or does the VXP add more vertical lines to the entire image, and the image ends up with 1,333 lines?


30% less light output, that's huge. With my current 105" wide 16x9 screen, if I go HE anamorphic, my width will increase to ~130", I'm afraid the Optoma is not bright enough to handle such large images. What do you think?

Chuong

Chuong,

Vertical resolution will not exceed 1080, the VXP just repeats some lines to fill the
vertical raster.

I have seen the HD81/UH380 combination as well as HD81/Schneider in Optoma's
demo room with a 150" wide 1.5 gain screen and there was plenty of brightness.
This was, however with new bulbs as far as I know. Those who saw the HD81/
Schneider at CEDIA on a 160" screen said it was very bright.

I can only say that when an HE anamorphic lens is moved into position, I don't
see much difference in light level with a non-anamorphic 16:9 image.

I don't want this HD81 thread to turn into an anamorphic setup thread, so I will
just say that anybody who has the opportunity to see an anamorphic setup should do so. Personally, I find a constant image height horizontal expansion anamorphic setup more dramatic and useful than a vertical expansion constant width anamorphic setup. YMMV.

Jeff Regan

Chuong,

When the VXP stretches the image vertically and adds info into the black bars' areas, does the VXP add additional vertical resolution lines too? For example, if the original image has 1000 lines of vertical resolution, and the VXP adds 200 lines of info into the black bars' areas, does the final image have 1,200 lines of vertical resolution? Or does the VXP add more vertical lines to the entire image, and the image ends up with 1,333 lines?

The typical situation is this: the data on hd-dvd contains video, which has 1920x1080 resolution and it is meant to be shown in 16x9 aspect ratio. If the actual movie is in 2.35:1 format, then basically 817 ( (16/9)/2.35*1080 ) lines of the stored video is used for the film image and the rest of the lines contain those horizontal black bars on top and bottom of the image. When you use VXP to horizontally scale the 817 lines to fill the whole 1080 line physical resolution of your projector, it has to perform a signal processing operation called sample rate conversion. If you are interested in this, you can start learning for example from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_rate_conversion). Note that this process does not add new information to the original image, it just converts the data from one format to another.

Kari

To go from the sublime to the ridiculous... Last night I had family and friends over watching Master and Commander. The projector kept going to a blue screen. It brought itself back to a picture every time but it could take almost 30 sec sometimes. After an hour of this and having checked the HDMI cable beteween the projector and the VXD, I switched to high altitude and bright bulb. No more blue screen. I can't believee #3 is that sensitive to heat where the others were not. Any ideas?

I had exactly the same problem with my HD81 right out of the box! I live in Denver, so after reading the manual, I tried "High Altitude" mode. That solved the problem completely. The only downside is the louder fan noise, but as I mentioned in a previous post, it's still quieter than my old InFocus projector.

-doug-

To go from the sublime to the ridiculous... Last night I had family and friends over watching Master and Commander. The projector kept going to a blue screen. It brought itself back to a picture every time but it could take almost 30 sec sometimes. After an hour of this and having checked the HDMI cable beteween the projector and the VXD, I switched to high altitude and bright bulb. No more blue screen. I can't believee #3 is that sensitive to heat where the others were not. Any ideas?

Zelmo,

That's what I did and it fixed it. The only thing is that I am in MD at sea level. Pisses me off frankly that these are built so close to tolerance.

... Wow, the green monsters were so perfectly colored and the image looked three dimensional. No artifacts. I do need to level the projector. I think it sagged for some reason. God I love this thing.

Art,

I am SO glad that #3 is working so well for you. I guess that I was lucky that my first pj was like your third. I now understand why our impressions were so far apart in the beginning.

Joe

Unless I keep this thing on high altitude with a fast blower, it goes to a blue screen, stays off for an unspecified amount of time and then returns. I checked cooling clearances. Has anyone else observed and resolved similar behavior. i am returning #2 today and frankly, Ii'm concerned that this one continues to go to blue screen.

The picture is incredible. The high blower does mask the color wheel whine so it might be a blessing in disguise.

i am sure i'm late with this request, but could someone post a link to an over-all review of the hd81? i'm trying to decide between the benq 1000 and the hd81 Vs the coming jvc.

thanks,

darryl

i am sure i'm late with this request, but could someone post a link to an over-all review of the hd81? i'm trying to decide between the benq 1000 and the hd81 Vs the coming jvc.

thanks,

darryl


Here is a new review that compares the BenQ and Optoma:



http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/HD81/index.asp (http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/HD81/index.asp)

Jeff Regan

I've posted a note about my similar problem previously, but will repeat part of it here in case it might help someone else.

I had exactly the same problem with the projector going to blue screen after a very short time after power-on.

I originally tried a different HDMI cable, then another RS-232 cable (I was using 50' cables because of my installation). Neither made any difference, so I read the manual and decided to use "High Altitude" mode (high fan speed). This worked, and I haven't had any blue-screen problems since, except:

Once, while I was using the remote to do some Setup things, it went to blue screen. I wasn't watching any video, just Menu stuff. The only way to get it back to normal operation was to turn it off, wait, then turn it back on. As I said, this happened only once, and that was a month ago. I'm assuming that it was a fluke.

On the other hand, I've had the screen go to black for a fraction of a second on three separate occasions while watching a movie. It only happens once during a movie, and then not every time. The problem lasts maybe 1/4 second, then resumes normal operation.

-d-
Unless I keep this thing on high altitude with a fast blower, it goes to a blue screen, stays off for an unspecified amount of time and then returns. I checked cooling clearances. Has anyone else observed and resolved similar behavior. i am returning #2 today and frankly, Ii'm concerned that this one continues to go to blue screen.

The picture is incredible. The high blower does mask the color wheel whine so it might be a blessing in disguise.

i am sure i'm late with this request, but could someone post a link to an over-all review of the hd81? i'm trying to decide between the benq 1000 and the hd81 Vs the coming jvc.

thanks,

darryl

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=715140

That's one that will give you some hard facts. Check out the wide open lumens number on a 106" 1.0gain screen.

Greg Rodgers will have a review out soon, I'll be interested to see how our numbers compare.

The Perfect Vison just reviewed the HD81 with very favorable comments except for the lack of flexibility and the auto iris. The processor got rave reviews.

Kevin,

Have you had a chance to re-calibrate your projector with your new equipment?

Just curious.

Joe

Kevin can you give a URL for the perfect vision review? Is it in issue 73? All I could find was the Optoma 7100.
Ed

I am using DVI-Video regularly with C08. Detail in dark areas is quite dramatic. I have the iris on Auto. I have not input any adjustments to factory settings except tint. Therefore, I am watching with the projector in "graphics". This one looks much sharper than #2. My wife and my neighbor agree. On the negative sid, the whine on this one has grown steadily. My noise level is 33dB measured at the same spot and in the sme manner I took all the mesurements on all 3 machines. QC on these is not good when I can measure that kind of noise variation. Picture wise, this is incredible. There is sme rd fringing but no blue as the others had. The red is to the right and very obvious even with the IRIS at 16. Higher IRIS values minmize fringing.

My guests over Christma were subjected to blue fields on a recurring basis. When I turned the fan up, it stopped. I had turned the house temp to 73. Now I turned the temp back to 70 and the blue field only returned one time tonight. As the house grew slightly cooler later in the evening, I never had another incident.

The picture is so good on this one, that I have decided to accept it. BTW, I am seeing rainbows regularly but briefly.

The review is in the January 2007 issue. Try this link, but you may need to be a subscriber to download the review The Perfect Vision (http://www.avguide.com/the-perfect-vision)

I haven't recalibrated yet, but I hope to do so within the next few days. Tonight we watched Superman II -- The Richard Donner Cut and enjoyed it completely. I've never had a projector that I spent more time enjoying and less time tweaking.

I have now watched many hours of movies and test patterns with my HD81 and UH380 lens. I don't own any measuring devices to objectively set the colors right, but I did spend some time with blue/red/green filters and my bare eye to find subjectively satisfying settings. Eventually, I am very pleased with the results and cannot find anything to complain about the PQ from my seating distance (well, maybe the contrast could be slightly better for space scenes, but otherwise everything is just perfect). I think it is fun how many one can adjust these new projectors. It is possible to get almost any kind of image out from these because they have so many degrees of freedom in settings and the fundamental quality of contrast, resolution, and brightness are so good.

I ended up with the following settings (I always use a HDMI connection):

contrast: -8 ( I couldn't get the high intensity colors/greys right without lowering the contrast)

brightness: -6 - 0 (this depends a lot of the source, for my Samsung HD-950 dvd player 0 was the correct setting, but with Panasonic dmp-bd10 and blu-ray discs I had the best results with -6), I am using pedestal setting DVI-PC for all sources.

color: 0

tint: 0

sharpness: 0

noise reduction: 0

gamma: 0 (I also experimented with gamma values -5 to -1, but their working depended on the source video material)

color temp: user
R contrast: 6
G contrast: 0
B contrast: 0
R brightness: 0
G brightness: 0
B brightness: -1

image mode: film

edge enhancement: off

color vividness: user ( I didn't change the default settings of the user mode)

b/w extension: off

On the negative side, the left border of the image is not focused but with the iris closed the other parts of the screen are very sharp. UH380 works very well and I don't see it degrading the picture quality. I have also encountered the Optoma "blue screen of death" once after having the projector on continuously for many hours. I was using the low lamp mode with the high altitude setting off and the projector is mounted so that it has lots of free space around it. I am living at about 80m above the sea level and my room temperature is quite low.

Kari

Thanks Kevin. I found the article. Was pretty positive about the HD-81.
By the way my projector will be delivered today. It has C06 firmware. I live about three hours from Optoma and want to take it up there to have C08 installed. Does anyone know who I should contact at Optom in Milpitas?
Thanks.
Ed

Today I encountered a new bug: After couple of hours of watching I went to the menu and tried to change from user 1 mode to user 3 and then the projector image turned greenish and it forgot the memory settings. I had to turn it off for couple of minutes to get it working again. I think I will be using the high altitude mode from now on.. HD81 doesn't feel like a ready product but more like beta level system and to me it looks like Optoma just released it too early to beat the coming competition next year :( I just hope that when I send my unit for firmware upgrade sometimes during the next year they can return me a polished product.

Kari

Warren Pierce is a first rate guy. He bent over backwards to satisfy me. My third unit has 08

Anyone using the 12v trigger output on the back of the VXP? Is that just a cable you get at RadioShack?

Thanks,

Chuong

It is fun to play with the abundant settings offered by HD81 and see what kind of images can be produced with this projector. For example, when I use:


noise reduction at max 10,
gamma setting -3 with film mode,
set iris to fully close position 16,
contrast something like -3, and
set the color temperature warmer than my usual settings and maybe increase saturation of colors


the DVD picture looks very much like the low-end Seleco CRT-projector I owned three years ago if my memory serves me correctly. My DVD player upscales the images to 1080i before the signal enters the projector's video processor and it seems that noise reduction even at value 10 doesn't soften the DVD resolution very much but makes the image smoother imitating the CRT horizontal continuity of the signal. My room has a complete control of external light and I have black sheets hanging on walls and on the ceiling in the front of the screen. It is not a complete bat cave, but at dark scenes the wall behind the screen looks completely black, so I am able to use the iris closed etc. I have currently a high power screen, but I am planning to change it to matte white 2.35:1 screen.

I am interested in hearing what kind of image settings other HD81 owners have used. Please post your findings here. Especially you, who own some kind of light/colormeters, signal generators etc..

Kari

Unless I keep this thing on high altitude with a fast blower, it goes to a blue screen, stays off for an unspecified amount of time and then returns. I checked cooling clearances. Has anyone else observed and resolved similar behavior. i am returning #2 today and frankly, Ii'm concerned that this one continues to go to blue screen.

The picture is incredible. The high blower does mask the color wheel whine so it might be a blessing in disguise.

Art, I sure am glad that you persisted with the HD81, after reading how carefully you looked at this unit, I know that it will also pass muster with me! ;)

No just need to find a good deal in or into Canada with warranty...

Al,

My wife agrees that the picture quality on #3 is vastly improved over #2. That should be a very troubling issue to those who expect a perfectly operating device. The fact that this device is so sensitive to temperature that I must put it on"High altitude" in order to prevent blue screen isues, is a disappointment. Why did #2 look so terrible. I could not figure out what it was that caused the "off" look. It just did not provide a crisp, sharp image like #1 and #3 do.

I've tried to get an answer to this several times without success. Each projector has arrived with different settings in the user 1 position and the color temp positions. Warren was not able to verify whether each unit is adjusted against a reference. Does anyone know how these values are chosen? They provide an outstanding picture.

I have CO5 and as I live in VA I can't easily get my PJ upgraded to CO8. I want to do this at the time when future firmware upgrades will be downloaded from the internet so I only need to send it in once. Has anyone had any more news on this? It seemed like months ago that Guitarman thought it would be a couple of weeks. If anyone is going to CES in January can you ask Optoma for some answers to this? I have caught the bug that KariV mentioned earlier about my picture going green and it is really annoying!

Art - I'm also glad that #3 is working out better for you. There are probably hundreds of people who have been following your saga! I do struggle to believe that MD is "high altitude" though!!

I am in fact one of those people following Art findings, and I am almost ready to go ahead with HD81 + C08, but I am still waiting for Greg's review, and it would also be relieving if Art found out what was wrong with #2. Because what happens now if I receive a faulty unit like that? I would never suspect that it is not producing the right picture quality, not having seen a good one...

Jose

pcarey,

if you send your unit in now (call Warren Pierce) you will get C08 installed. I suspect that will be the last upgrade for a while. The projector works beautifully with C08 and the "out of the box" settings are quite good.

jruizcristina,

I will never know why #2 was faulty. I've had a lot of years playing with this stuff and I could not figure out the cause and I was hard pressed to define the nature of the fuzziness. I do know that it was considerably duller than #1 or #2. I could achieve perfect focus but the projected picture looked out of focus. There was some fringing but no jitter. Frankly, I don't know how to define it but when 3 people see the same thing, it is there.

Re. getting a new unit that works like #2. I think you would know. My neighbor came to my home and saw it right away.

Anyone using the 12v trigger output on the back of the VXP? Is that just a cable you get at RadioShack?

Thanks,

Chuong


Chuong,

I use the programmable trigger for the Panamorph M380 lens transport. The
connector is a DC power type. I did not find a ready made cable at Radio Shack,
but they do sell the various size DC connectors and also adaptors that are really
made for AC to DC power supply adaptors.

Jeff Regan

I just recieved my HD-81 yesterday and have a quick question. I want to use the Chief ceiling mount I already have but apparantly I have the wrong plate to connect to the projector. Do any of you know the model # of the correct Chief mounting plate that fits the HD-81. Also where do you get the appropriate size screws?
Thanks.

I used the hardware that came with the Chief Universal mount. There are 4 arms that come with the mount. Take one off, Adjust 2 in the form of an A with the peak facing towards the projector. The third leg goes right up the middle. Works perfectly. I strongly suggest getting gthe lateral kit unless you are a lot luckier than I was getting it perfectly positioned. For me, that kit was a godsend. BTW, I also removed the height adjustment extensions. For better cooling, leave them on.

Al,

My wife agrees that the picture quality on #3 is vastly improved over #2. That should be a very troubling issue to those who expect a perfectly operating device. The fact that this device is so sensitive to temperature that I must put it on"High altitude" in order to prevent blue screen isues, is a disappointment. Why did #2 look so terrible. I could not figure out what it was that caused the "off" look. It just did not provide a crisp, sharp image like #1 and #3 do.

I've tried to get an answer to this several times without success. Each projector has arrived with different settings in the user 1 position and the color temp positions. Warren was not able to verify whether each unit is adjusted against a reference. Does anyone know how these values are chosen? They provide an outstanding picture.

Art, it is just exactly what you mentioned to pcarey and jruizcristina that has me worried, if I get a 'poor example' then what, from Canada shipping these things back and forth across the border becomes a nightmare.

Is there a way to tell if or specify that I only want to receive a unit that has C08 installed?

As for the heat issue, yes that is troubling, mostly because after this many years they should have these kinds of things well in hand.

Call Warren Pierce at Optoma.

Warren Pierce
Customer Service Manager
Optoma Technology, Inc.
Phone: (888) 289-6786 ext. 3852
Fax: (408) 383-3701
warrenp@optoma.com

Great guy who understands.

I just recieved my HD-81 yesterday and have a quick question. I want to use the Chief ceiling mount I already have but apparantly I have the wrong plate to connect to the projector. Do any of you know the model # of the correct Chief mounting plate that fits the HD-81. Also where do you get the appropriate size screws?
Thanks.


weatherby,

The Chief RPAU Universal will work, but the Optoma adaptor is Chief model number SLB-156. I agree with Art that a lateral kit could be useful, as adjustability with the Chief RPAU is difficult and unprecise.

I've also been told that Panamorph is coming out with a mounting plate for the HD81 and Panamorph UH380/M380, for those doing an anamorphic setup.

Jeff Regan

if I get a 'poor example' then what, from Canada shipping these things back and forth across the border becomes a nightmare.

Is there a way to tell if or specify that I only want to receive a unit that has C08 installed?


Al,

If you were to purchase from AVS, you could potentially pay Jason to open and test
the HD81 prior to shipping to you, assuming AVS will do Canadian sales.

I say this because I know Jason has checked Sony Pearls for customers in case of
convergence error being out of spec.

You could also specify C08 as a condition of sale, I would guess.

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

You are absolutely correct about the RPAU Chief mount being imprecise. It is a terrible piece of human engineering although it does allow you to adjust for roll, pitch and yaw. Practically speaking though, I have spent over 45 minutes tring to get the position locked down. Every time you adjust,tighten, the screws, the thing moves.

Regarding the"checking" of the HD81 before shipment. Warren Pierce said that Optoma's Techs checked #2 and #3 before shipment. I'm afraid that techs do not look at these things the way we do. I believe the repair shop moto is, "if it lights, makes noise and moves, it is OK. Jason's review might be more worthwhile. I will say that I began to doubt my own eyes with #2 and thought I was getting too negative until my wife and neighbor came to the same conclusion independently. Quality gradations are subtle and often based on experience and familiarity.

Art, if you change noise reduction setting to a high value, does it look like the softness of your #2 unit or was the softness clearly coming from the optical components of the projector?

Kari

FYI. I emailed Warren Pierce at Optoma this morning. The following is the response:

Hi Ed,

Thank you for your inquiry. The C08 firmware is not officially available
yet. The upgrade we did for your friend was a one-time thing and we won't
be doing any more upgrades at this time.

Regards,

Warren

I am not sure what to tell you. Did you use my name or Jeff's? I was under the impression that they were updating software. Guitarman and Kevin have been urging upgrades. What exactly did you say in your email to him? Please send me a private or if you wish, public, copy.

If I knew the source off the fuzzy picture, I would tell you and everyone else. No, it is not just a noise duction setting. I spent 4 days trying to figure it out unsuccessfully.

Art the following is what I wrote to Warren. I hope you didn't mind me using your name?

Good morning. I just received my HD-81 and before mounting I would really
like to update the firmware from C06 to C08. I understand from Art Neil a
fellow poster at the AVS Forum that the C08 update really takes care of a
lot of the problems that have been present in the earlier firmware.

I live a few hours south of you down here in San Luis Obispo. I will be
traveling near Milpitas next Tuesday the 2nd and was wondering if it would
be possible to drop off the projector for the firmware update. Better yet
would it be possible to wait for that to be done as that would save me
another round trip to pick it up?

Thanks for your time in responding and helping me receive the latest
firmware update before mounting the projector in my new theater.

Sincerely

Ed Weatherby

I also got a very similar reply from Warren. My email was:

Warren,

I understand that you may be able to assist me with an Optoma HD81 that I recently purchased. The unit has some problems and is running firmware version CO5. I think these issues will be resolved by upgrading to CO8 but I am not sure how to go about doing this. I would be very grateful if you could let me know what I need to do to get my HD81 upgraded.

I also have an additional relevant question. There has been some talk that the HD81 may be firmware upgradeable in the future simply by downloading firmware from the internet. This is an excellent idea. Do you know whether the CO8 firmware will allow this to happen? The reason is that if it does not but CO9 or a newer version in a couple of months does it might be worth holding off returning my unit until then.

Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Piers

and his reply was:

Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry. The C08 firmware is not officially available yet. We have been talking about having the firmware available for download in the future, but I don't have any further information on that.

Regards,

Warren

I did reply to ask how we will know when CO8 becomes available and I'm waiting on a reply. It sounds like the official line is "go away" which is a bit of a shame really. I get green screens in almost every movie I watch although switching source seems to fix it. Right now I have my DVD player hooked up via component and HDMI. When it goes green I switch to the other source. Hardly what you would expect to have to do with a $6k PJ!

I encountered the green screen second time and it was again when switching from user1 mode to user3. The green screen bug seems to have nothing to do with the temperature/high altitude mode, because this time I was using the high altitude mode and the bug appeared in exactly the same situation when I was browsing the menus. I just pressed the source button "hdmi 1" again and everything came back to normal, thanks for the hint. There is no need to switch from "hdmi 1" to "hdmi 2" but pressing the same source again does the trick too. Maybe this has something to do with the ISF modes that can be seen in the menu but cannot be selected.

Because the "color" setting is apparently doing nothing and the same functionality must therefore be achieved through the color vividness user mode (which is, btw, offers much more control than a single saturation setting), I would like to ask, is there any way to adjust the values for different levels at the same time? It takes a long time to move each slider individually.

The more I learn how to use all these settings the video processor offers, the more I am satisfied the PQ of HD81. The brochure says that HD81 uses 10 bit handling of colors in its signal processing path.. Does this mean that the DLP element is also capable of showing 10 bits of different shades or is the signal converted back to 8 bit before it is fed to the panel?

Kari

One more question: Does changing all saturation levels (for each six? colors) from the color vividness has the same effect than a single saturation level setting would? Is it possible to simulate a single color saturation setting with these accurately? What does the color vividness actually do (is the algorithm or a manual for using this published somewhere, HD81 manual says very little about this)?

Kari

If you are having problems with them call for a RMA it is the quickest way to resolve it. If they get returns with green screen of death I would bet they would be upgrading them to C08.


Dale

Weatherby et al,

It took me well over a month to establish a rapor with Optoma. The breakthrough came when Jeff traveled to their place and had C08 installed. Using the numbers and email addresses he provided I contacted several people at Optoma concerning my problems which I tried to document for everyone to see and comment on in this thread. Warren and 2 other gentlemen replied by suggesting that I return the unit for upgrade. They felt that my issues might be solved by the newer software that guitarman and Kevin were using. They offered to install whatever softrware happened to be the "latest and greatest". I negotiaed a swap which meant that I paid for a second projector pending return of the first. When the second unit arrived with a terrible picture but with a noise level so low that I felt it was a miracle, I tried to adjust the unit for several days. No amount of fiddling resolved the unfocused, fuzzy, not quite right picture issue. It was quiet, had C07 but looked terrible.

Out of desperation, I called Warren and he agreed to sell me another HD81. With over $13,000.00 chaarged to my credit card, you can imagine my concern that the variability issue might be indemic. When #3 arrived and #2 went back, I saw once again the gorgeous, sharply detailed picture manifested by #1. Unfortunately, this projector's noise level tops 35dB on low speed. There is a terrible high pitched whine at low speed. At high speed, which is necessary to prevent the blue screen from coming on, the projector sounds like a window air conditioner.

I fear that Optoma has had it because of Jeff and me. We may have ruined it for others seeking a firmware upgrade for no reason. ( I did not find a specific problem that needs repair in your message to them.) It sounds like they are only fixing "broken" units.

I went through hell trying to resolve why I could not download and install newer software which allegedly would resolve my performance issues. It is clear now after Jeff found this out and told us that only OPTOMA can upgrade software. From your comments and Warren's rsponse to your request, it appears they are not willing to upgrade just to make people happy. I feel fortunate that I have been able to benefit from Jeff;s information and that Warren Pierce was kind enough to understand why it was important to resolve my complaints. Seems like the "greasy wheel" analogy once again rings true. I am sorry that you were not able to get your software upgraded.

This projector displays a gorgeous picture. The question remains whether the myriad of negative issues which I and others have documented in this thread are significant enough to kill the desire to purchase the HD81. In my case, I regret purchasing the HD81. The hastle to get to where I am was not worth the heartache. I took a lot of grief from folks in this forum when I was called "negative and depressed". I get conerned when I recommend an action in good faith and the outcome turns out negative. This projector was released too early. Every one of us who made comments got bloodied by our comments which often proved correct and a lot of folks did not want to hear negative fact. Positive results that could not be substantiated like those made by guitarman and Kevin have led some to doubt the person when in fact the problem is the variable performance ofdifferent units.

I hope you get a working product that you can live with. I have a noisy unit that is terribly annoying for that reason. It does however provide a picture out of the box that is magnificent. I hope you can come to a point in the near future where you can sit back and watch a movie in peace knowing that even though it has its limitations, this projector gives more "bang for the buck" than any other projector on the market today.

Thanks for your post Art. I wonder how long I and others will have to wait to get the latest upgrade in firmware that will solve the multitude of problems with this projector. Kevin which # are you using? Seems like it is C06? Are you happy with it still? I really wanted to get the latest before going to the trouble of installing. I am very disapointed Optoma was not willing to do this. My home/theater will not actually be finished until the first of March and I am hoping by then Optoma will change their position and offer C08 or above before it is neccessary to install. I wish Warren or others from Optoma would monitor this forum to see what the users are facing. Thanks again Art for your input and forging the way for the rest of us.
Weatherby

I have CO5 and as I live in VA I can't easily get my PJ upgraded to CO8. I want to do this at the time when future firmware upgrades will be downloaded from the internet so I only need to send it in once. Has anyone had any more news on this? It seemed like months ago that Guitarman thought it would be a couple of weeks. If anyone is going to CES in January can you ask Optoma for some answers to this? I have caught the bug that KariV mentioned earlier about my picture going green and it is really annoying!

Art - I'm also glad that #3 is working out better for you. There are probably hundreds of people who have been following your saga! I do struggle to believe that MD is "high altitude" though!!

There's just one problem relating to 1080p that you'll need to send the projector in for. The fix has to be done internally to the processor. After that future firmwares should be up and running for home input.

Tom - thanks for the clarification but it does seem as though they are unwilling to do the upgrade at the moment. If you could help keep us in the loop as to how we can get CO8 that would be really great.

..and thanks for all the Optoma related info on this forum. It was reading your posts about the H78DC3 that originally led me to Optoma!

I also got an email back from Optoma saying to check back with them in a few weeks about the firmware upgrade. Sounds like it is a waiting game for now. Hopefully this will be before Weatherby's HT is done. For me I'm going to mount this thing and just rip it down when I need to send it back!

I agree with Dale... if you are seeing issues I would call in an RMA and get it in for service. They would upgrade the firmware to the latest version typically after troubleshooting any problems reported.

Chuong,

I use the programmable trigger for the Panamorph M380 lens transport. The
connector is a DC power type. I did not find a ready made cable at Radio Shack,
but they do sell the various size DC connectors and also adaptors that are really
made for AC to DC power supply adaptors.

Jeff Regan

Thanks Jeff.

I went to RS and bought the connectors and soldered them to make the 12v trigger cable.

Chuong

weatherby,

I presented my performance issues to Optoma. They repaired them by substituting my original machine with a substitute. Same with #2. The upgrade occurred in order to solve specific interface issues. I believe that if fyou had presented your issues differently, i.e. mentioning specific complaints and device failures, Warren would have been more helpful. In my case, he was ordered to help from above. Squeeky wheel syndrome I guess.

I do feel bad though that you did not get the kind of response I expected. But remember, I'm on #3 and after 3 HD81's, I still have a veryt noisy projector and one that pops up a blue screen if the room becomes tolerable for human metabolisms, 70 degrees. I suspect at the projector's height, ambient might be 72. This projector has a lot of issues.

OK now a question. What HD DVD player should I buy in order to interface properly with the HD81 and provide True HD? Price no object....

Is there any reason other than noise not to use the high altitude setting? My HD-81 is mounted in a seperate room isolated from the theater. Will the increased airflow result in lower heat build up and therefore longer overall life and reliability?

I just recieved my HD-81 yesterday and have a quick question. I want to use the Chief ceiling mount I already have but apparantly I have the wrong plate to connect to the projector. Do any of you know the model # of the correct Chief mounting plate that fits the HD-81. Also where do you get the appropriate size screws?
Thanks.

Hi Weatherby,

You don't need the plate to mount the PJ. I mounted the 3 legs of the Chief to the PJ directly. The Chief's mounting instructions were useless.

I bought the M4, 8mm-long screws at Home Depot (any hardware store will have them).

Chuong

John,
The high blower setting is pobably the preferable choice if noise is not an issue. I turn mine down until the blue screen comes on for the first time. After that, it's high blower.

I had sufficient mounting hardware between the Chief and HD81's bags. I did have to add 9 washers because the screws provided were a bit too long. I may add the legs back on to provide greater projector to ceiling clearance.

John, what HD projector are you purchasing to be able to use the 24 fps (48 Hz actually)? setting

<There's just one problem relating to 1080p that you'll need to send the projector in for.>

Tom,

Would you elaborate please?

weatherby,

....I still have a veryt noisy projector and one that pops up a blue screen if the room becomes tolerable for human metabolisms, 70 degrees. I suspect at the projector's height, ambient might be 72. This projector has a lot of issues.

OK now a question. What HD DVD player should I buy in order to interface properly with the HD81 and provide True HD? Price no object....

Art,

What will happen to the PJ in the summer time when the ambient is not 72? Unless, you run A/C.

I have the Tosh. A2, waiting to upgrade to XA2. Both do not have 24fps output. No player that I know of has 24fps output.

Chuong

Is there any reason other than noise not to use the high altitude setting? My HD-81 is mounted in a seperate room isolated from the theater. Will the increased airflow result in lower heat build up and therefore longer overall life and reliability?

Hi John,

All electronics will last longer if run cooled. The lamp and electronics parts inside the PJ will last longer at lower temperatures.

Chuong

I went through hell trying to resolve why I could not download and install newer software which allegedly would resolve my performance issues. It is clear now after Jeff found this out and told us that only OPTOMA can upgrade software.For the record, because one of the shortcomings of Optoma's previous flagship model, the H79, was lack of firmware upgradability, I asked about H81 firmware upgradability in post #12 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6874754&&#post6874754) of this thread with the response, in post #224 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6903359&&#post6903359), that "2. Yes, user upgradable via www download".

Unfortunately, it seems that capability is not necessarily the same thing as availability.

Good luck with the struggles,
Brent

John,


John, what HD projector are you purchasing to be able to use the 24 fps (48 Hz actually)? setting


Art,

I figured the High Alt setting was just for the fan but wanted to make sure I was not making some other adjustment at the same time.

I have a Toshiba HD-XA1. It is very painful to view any standard resolution sources( lo def tv, video tape ). I also got a Pioneer 46AV that has an upconverter. Have not compaired it with the Optoma processor as of yet. Are there any settings I should be aware of here with lo def?

Picture is great with all HD sources. I am going to put off the calibration until C08. BTW I just got a call from a friend who had his plasma cal'ed and he is raving about the image. I can get a guy to visit for about $300. Is this a good price?

John

Sounds good. Make sure the guy is going to set gray scale tracking and color temperature with a colorimeter. I have a colorimeter and can make things "look good" in a couple hours. Getting everything perfect takes a lot longer. Every input should beset up. Make sure the guy will do more than use the Avia disk. Also, when he is ready to leave, make sure you are willing to live with the results forever. He needs to be familiar with your HD81 and be prepared to call OPTOMA to gain access to the ISF settings for Day and night.

I would bypass the Pioneer's upconverter or at least check performance both ways.

Art,

What will happen to the PJ in the summer time when the ambient is not 72? Unless, you run A/C.

I have the Tosh. A2, waiting to upgrade to XA2. Both do not have 24fps output. No player that I know of has 24fps output.

Chuong

Guess I will have to run the high blower or return the projector to Optoma. i'm beginning to understand the value of purchasing a unit with an american warranty. I wonder how those who purchased from the "broadway" merchants for $1,000.00 less than I did are making out? Haven't seen any on Ebay.

Thought I would pass on another email I recieved from Warren at Optoma. I feel better about getting a firmware update in the future:

Hi Ed,

Its not a position we are taking, its just simply not available yet. When
it becomes available, it will be available. Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks and Happy New Year!

Warren

Guess I will have to run the high blower or return the projector to Optoma. i'm beginning to understand the value of purchasing a unit with an american warranty. I wonder how those who purchased from the "broadway" merchants for $1,000.00 less than I did are making out? Haven't seen any on Ebay.

My PJ was pretty loud on Brite mode too. I run Brite mode all the time because I have a 10' diag. screen and want a bright picture. I built an insulated hush box and all is quiet. With zero ambient sound, all I hear is a small breezy sound.

Funny, my friends thought the PJ was naturally that quiet without the hush box. They thought I built the hush box just to hide the PJ and cables. Of course, they didn't know it was called a 'hush' box.

Chuong

Chuong would it be possible to post a pic of your hush box??

Chuong - I would like to see that too!

Chuong would it be possible to post a pic of your hush box??

Hi Guys,

I will load the pictures tomorrow.

Chuong

Art,

For a HD DVD with a "price is not a problem" I would recommend a HTPC with both HD-DVD and Blue Ray. This will enable you to play both types of disks as Content is King and then you don't have to care about what format the movie you want to see is coming out on.

I have seen some turn key players advertised on this site, I don't have a link handy though

I discovered something new tonight. You may recall that I reported color fringing. Tonight I adjusted a setting on my Pioneer Elite DV-09. In its time, this was Pioneer's top of the line DVD player. In 1998 it cist $1,500.00 at the friendly price. It has an adjustment called Y/C Timing. On my CRT projector I never noticed an effect with this adjustment. Tonight, in an effort to improve the already beautiful 480i YPrPb output of this machine, I changed the Y/C setting value. The color fringing disappeared. No more red to the left of the image. Eureka!!!!!!!! Mr. Watson. Another issue neutralized. If you have experienced fringing when watching DVD's it might be due to this Y/C timing error. Apparently it varies enough that Pioneer included an adjustable control with 5 settings to compensate for Y/C timing differences. FWIW guys...Hope it is useful.

Just out of curiosity,

How is it that the offset for the hd81 - according to the Optoma techies and and specs is 36.2%~, however, when reported by many many consumers is something much different from the 36.2% (i.e. 27%)?

Does it vary from unit to unit? Is anyone actually getting the prescribed 36.2% offset?

I could be wrong but I have heard it depends on whether you are at full zoom or wide zoom where the projector is mounted....

It certainly makes a difference to the top of the image if you zoom out. The image drops by about 4" My PJ is about 180" from the screen. I'm not sure this accounts for the discrepancy though as it only equates to 1 or 2 degrees (I think!)

Gentlemen,

Once you mount the projector at a throw distance that provides the width you desire. there is so much latitude in where you place the image vertically, that I would not be concerned about vertical location. The Keystone adjustment works so well that you can put the image anywhere. Compared to all the other variables that affect the picture, using the keystone adjustment should be of little concern. I have mine located fairly low because I like the audio to fall in the visual plane. If you are of like mind, then you will not have any problem. If you want it higher, just tilt the projector up and perform keystone corrction as necessary. Believe me, if I saw some degradation, I would mention it.

Also, I thought that if I used the new anamorphic lens setting, I would get a vertically larger picture. I did not. Why? I was contemplating a lens that would vertically shrink images but have decided to spend my money on a new HD DVD player if one comes out that will allow me to use the VXD to its highest potential while listening to True HD dDolby.

Gentlemen,

Once you mount the projector at a throw distance that provides the width you desire. there is so much latitude in where you place the image vertically, that I would not be concerned about vertical location. The Keystone adjustment works so well that you can put the image anywhere.

Art is absolutely right but let me encourage you to think about tilting the screen if you can. My PJ is ceiling mounted with about a third of the recommended offset. I set the screen at the height I needed for sightlines and pointed the projector upward to match. My screen top is mounted on bolts that I can screw in or out while the screen bottom is set a fixed distance from the wall.

I tilted the screen until the picture was within 1/4" of width at top and bottom. This took about 4.5" of tilt at the top. I did not use keystone at all. No one even notices the screen is tilted unless I point it out.

Art is absolutely right but let me encourage you to think about tilting the screen if you can. My PJ is ceiling mounted with about a third of the recommended offset. I set the screen at the height I needed for sightlines and pointed the projector upward to match. My screen top is mounted on bolts that I can screw in or out while the screen bottom is set a fixed distance from the wall.

I tilted the screen until the picture was within 1/4" of width at top and bottom. This took about 4.5" of tilt at the top. I did not use keystone at all. No one even notices the screen is tilted unless I point it out.

I did exactly the same thing. Mine was a little less than 4.5" though. More like 3.75. My screen is 10 feet wide.

Joe

Also, I thought that if I used the new anamorphic lens setting, I would get a vertically larger picture. I did not. Why? I was contemplating a lens that would vertically shrink images but have decided to spend my money on a new HD DVD player if one comes out that will allow me to use the VXD to its highest potential while listening to True HD dDolby.

Art,

The setting used for vertical expansion is LBX. The anamorphic lens settings added in C08 are for the AutoScope mode.

The Toshiba HD-XA2 will be the player of choice because initially they will output
1080/60p, but a couple of months after they are released, Toshiba is supposed
to offer a firmware update that will do 1080/24p, which means the VXP won't
have to do too much other than vertical scaling for anamorphic setups. The
XA2 also have 6 channel analog audio outputs as well, which the HD-A2 doesn't
offer. The HDMI 1.3 is pretty useless until there is software that takes advantage
of the new color spec, which isn't written into HD DVD format specs.

Jeff Regan

Ok, I know I'm day or two late on this. I just got my HD81 hung up tonight. I've done nothing to it except test it out. I've done nothing to the settings at all yet and man does this thing have an amazing picture. My wife even noticed it. She said "I didn't think you were telling the truth when you said you were going to upgrade over the Sony Ruby, but Wow this is incredible!" I can't wait to get my Panamorph lens up in front of it tomorrow. It's going to be like watching my HD-DVD and Blu Ray discs all over again for the first time.

Congratulations on mounting your HD81! I upgraded to the HD81 because of HD DVD and I
agree, watching my HD DVD discs is always a revelation after first having seen them with my previous Sony CRT projector. I thought I would move to a Ruby or Pearl, but I never got
excited about them in three demo attempts. Now I've added Dish Network to my DirecTV
because of all the HD channels it offers over DirecTV. The HD81 is like an HD monster that
must be fed continuously!

Wait until you're watching 2:35 anamorphic on your HD81--talk about addictive!! I find
myself watching 16:9 material in 2:35, even though it is cropping the top and bottm of
the source material. Not proper, but fun.

Enjoy!!

Jeff Regan

The Toshiba HD-XA2 will be the player of choice because initially they will output
1080/60p, but a couple of months after they are released, Toshiba is supposed
to offer a firmware update that will do 1080/24p, which means the VXP won't
have to do too much other than vertical scaling for anamorphic setups. The
XA2 also have 6 channel analog audio outputs as well, which the HD-A2 doesn't
offer. The HDMI 1.3 is pretty useless until there is software that takes advantage
of the new color spec, which isn't written into HD DVD format specs.

Jeff Regan

Are you going to get one? I'm very tempted but might just wait until after CES. I think they start shipping next week. I don't know if they output 480i over HDMI but with the Silicon Optix chip inside (allegedly) it's scaling for SD might be close to the HD81 scalar - what do you think?

Are you going to get one? I'm very tempted but might just wait until after CES. I think they start shipping next week. I don't know if they output 480i over HDMI but with the Silicon Optix chip inside (allegedly) it's scaling for SD might be close to the HD81 scalar - what do you think?

I want to wait until Toshiba delivers the 1080/24p firmware update and hear how it looks compared to 1080/60i. 1080/60p is not worth jumping for when we have a Gennum scaler, IMO. Wing at Optoma told me that the HD81/C07/C08 Film Mode 48Hz mode will work well and reliably with 1080/24p output because there is no
2:3:2 cadence to detect and sync to, no frames to throw away, no deinterlacing.

The HQV chip set in the XA2 should be a step forward from what's in gen. 1 Toshiba HD DVD players. My HD-A1 did not do well with the HQV test disc, but the Gennum VXP sailed through it when fed 480/60i from the HD-A1 or ancient Sony 7000.

Speaking of the HD-A1, all of a sudden I keep getting an HDMI Error 1 when I go to play a HD DVD which requires a reboot of the player and my HD81--what a pain.

Jeff Regan

Last I remember reading was that they had not gotten the 48Hz mode for 1080/24p working up to their satisfaction. Has this been remedied with one of the new firmware updates. I quess since only a handful have the new firmware, it can't be tested until the new firmware is in the hands of someone who also owns the new Toshiba or has a Pioneer or Sony Blu-ray player. I've been waiting to hear result on this. Of course, I've also been waiting to see if the new firmware updates are downloadable.

tat

Has anyone, that has the h81 and comcast cable HD, get a fussy picture whe viewing a regular station thats outputting 480p (the scaler dosnt scale up the image).
Wondering whats a solution.

1gasman

Thanks Jeff,

I will look for an XA2. Now if I could just get this thing to stop giving me a blue screen. I've been smelling something burning when the HD81 is on slow blower so I set it to hi blower and suppress my consciousness. It is hard to believe that there is such variability between units. I'm not sure whether I mentioned it but my field of vue is 2.5 in wider than #1 or #2.

Has anyone, that has the h81 and comcast cable HD, get a fussy picture whe viewing a regular station thats outputting 480p (the scaler dosnt scale up the image). Wondering whats a solution.
As a digital set, the HD81 can only display an image in its native resolution, which is 1080p; therefore, of necessity, it is upconverting a 480p image to 1080p. However, as the old computer saying goes, "garbage in - garbage out", and even the Gennum processor can't turn the "sow's ear" of 480p into the "silk purse" of native 1080.

Upconverted 480 DVDs can squeak by, but SD TV is hopeless on a display as revealing as the HD81.

Kevin,

You've got that right. In this day and age of digital available to all of us via multiple media, there is no reason to watch SD unless you like to watch the market or the military and history channels. I use a C Band dish and avoid the cable crunched refeeds. BTW, did anyone catch the Fox feed of the Giant-Redskins game? The ESPN original was superb in HD but the Fox WTTG Washington, DC OTA feed was awful. They screwed up the conversion from the 1080i satellite original on the NFL Network when they converted to Fox's 720P. The Color Temp was way off to the green and the brightness was so high that the peaks washed out and the dark areas were a light green. It was the worst example of poor engineering I've ever seen. Nevertheless, after some hevy fiddling with the user settings for Color Temp, I got it looking pretty good. By that time, the Redskins were losing anyway so all my frustration and subsequent effort were for naught.

Does anyone remember anything being stuck in the air flow path? I can't believe this thing is running as hot as it is.

As a digital set, the HD81 can only display an image in its native resolution, which is 1080p; therefore, of necessity, it is upconverting a 480p image to 1080p. However, as the old computer saying goes, "garbage in - garbage out", and the even the Gennum processor can't turn the "sow's ear" of 480p into the "silk purse" of native 1080.

Upconverted 480 DVDs can squeak by, but SD TV is hopeless on a display as revealing as the HD81.

--------------
Thanks Kevin and MR HIFI for the input. makes sense.

1gasman

Last I remember reading was that they had not gotten the 48Hz mode for 1080/24p working up to their satisfaction. Has this been remedied with one of the new firmware updates. I quess since only a handful have the new firmware, it can't be tested until the new firmware is in the hands of someone who also owns the new Toshiba or has a Pioneer or Sony Blu-ray player. I've been waiting to hear result on this. Of course, I've also been waiting to see if the new firmware updates are downloadable.

tat


According to Wing, it is 1080/60i sources that must be converted to 1080/48p that is
problematic with Film Mode 48Hz, NOT 1080/24p. He said that 24p sources should
work very well.

Jeff Regan

Thats good news to know (regarding 1080/24P). I've been following this thread since i saw the unit last year at CES and would like to replace my projector early next year, but keep getting worried over the "bugs" in the firmware. I'm also not the type to tinker with the system to much, but just sit back and enjoy the picture. I have often wondered if this unit would be good for someone who isn't going to use all of the capabilities of the scaler. Well maybe I could just use some of the settings posted by all of the users who are good at fine tuning the unit.

tat

If you don't enjoy tinkering, then stay away from the HD81. This baby requires a lot of attention in order to create a picture worth the investment. I like to tinker.

Ok, I know I'm day or two late on this. I just got my HD81 hung up tonight. I've done nothing to it except test it out. I've done nothing to the settings at all yet and man does this thing have an amazing picture. My wife even noticed it. She said "I didn't think you were telling the truth when you said you were going to upgrade over the Sony Ruby, but Wow this is incredible!" I can't wait to get my Panamorph lens up in front of it tomorrow. It's going to be like watching my HD-DVD and Blu Ray discs all over again for the first time.

Same here, right out of the box my HD81 looked very natural even with strong vivid colors, bright, great blacks & detail in the blacks, optics were perfect, fine clean image. Most likely just about all will meet these specs, except the ones they send Art. :)
Art lighten up bud. Lets make it a New Years Resolution (always look on the bright side of life) ala Monty Python.

Happy New Year!

Like Art I love to tinker, but my set-up sounds less complicated than his. I only have the Toshiba HD-DVD player and OTA HDTV, and I use two custom settings for each source.

Once I got this baby adjusted, I just "set it and forget it!"

At most, I tweak the gamma setting depending on the source material. My wife is amazed because I've never spent less time tweaking.

Tom,

I'll try and "look on the bright side of life" just for you. However, I would think that even you with your cheery disposition and upbeat positions would be a little disappointed if your unit turned blue on low blower less than 100 ft above sea level.

Kevin,

I have 7 devices plugged into the VXD. 4 of these deliver HD via HDMI or component. Twidling the picture is a necessity.

Happy New Year!

Just finished watching the Rose Parade, gorgeous! Great detail and depth, color saturation--BUT--in high chroma and over exposed areas with all sources, but especially HD, I get over saturated, blotchy artifacts, including fleshtones(especially with HD video vs. film originated material). I think it is a compression artifact and have seen similar with my LCD displays, but it is really obvious on satellite HD sources and very distracting at times.

Does anybody else have this issue?

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

I watched the Discovery HD feed on C Band satellite. Perfection is too small a complement. The local feed here looked good too. Must have been compression artifacts from the SLD, Silly Little Dish.

Guitarman wrote that the optics are perfect. Is this the case for other owners? I am unable to get the left border of the image focused, but other areas of the picture are very good with iris closed to settings 12-16. Every pixel casts a "shadow" of 1-2 pixels on the left side of the image. It is a minor problem and from my seating distance I can see it only as a slight softening of the image, but I would like to know if this is this normal?

Otherwise I am very happy about the picture quality (there is still room for improvement in on/off contrast, but ANSI contrast, brightness, colors, resolution, and image processing/adjustments are more than enough for me). Warning: these new 1080p projectors can consume all your free time because you get so addicted to the film-like beautiful images they produce.

Kari

KariV,

The effect you describe was present on my #2. I could not get it out. It was present with all inputs. #1 and #3 do not exhibit this "shadow". It made the picture look "not quite right". I could focus perfectly but on boundaries between colors, smearing or blending could be observed. I will mention again that with #3 I observed a similar effect but only when watching SD DVD's via 480i component from my Pioneer Elite DV-09. As I mentioned previously, there is a Y/C timing control in the DVD player. When I adjusted this control, I eliminated the color smearing effect completely. I could adjust it to make the smear appear to the left or the right of the object. I mention this only because it appears to relate to the phenomenon yo are observing. Perhaps the HD81 has a setting for "Y/C timing in the service menu that might fix this? As you know, I returned mine after my wife and my neighbor agreed that the picture looked "fuzzy".

Sorry Tom, I know you were hoping for happy thoughts and positive comments always from me but I believe in telling it like it is.

Did anyone happen to watch the NBC HD lineup last night? The colors, blacks and skin tones were superb. I had the projector on DVI-Video and the Iris was off. Incredible picture. I am not sure why others are not using DVI-Video. I get superb color saturation and I can see details in the dark areas like a man's suit jacket. Last night I was able to be thrilled by the picture quality in a way I had not experienced before. The blacks are every bit as good, if not better than what I saw on my DWIN HD700 withe 13K hours on the tubes.

I just replaced my 4:3 high-power screen with 2.35 matte-white. The colors are now much better and the picture looks the same from all angles without any sparkling. Personally, I don't like high gain screens because the left eye is seeing a different image than the right eye and somehow that diminishes the 3d effect to me. I think that high gain screens should be used only in a reflective room or when complete control of ambient light is not possible and maximum light output is needed for the seats in the viewing cone.

Kari

Happy New Year!

Just finished watching the Rose Parade, gorgeous! Great detail and depth, color saturation--BUT--in high chroma and over exposed areas with all sources, but especially HD, I get over saturated, blotchy artifacts, including fleshtones(especially with HD video vs. film originated material). I think it is a compression artifact and have seen similar with my LCD displays, but it is really obvious on satellite HD sources and very distracting at times.

Does anybody else have this issue?

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

I get motion artifacts watching football on Satellite HDTV/HDMI input all the time. I think this is the inherent problem with 1080i. The colors are also more saturated, flesh tones are more red.

Chuong

Jeff and Chuongvu,

I have the greatest respect for the both of you but I can assure you that if you watch a network feed or watch the originating C or Ku band feed there are no artifacts. The problem is with hDish and Direct. My neighbor has the blockiness and he uses Dish. When things move quickly, it looks like SH... He keeps wanting to tie into my 12 ft reflector but that gets very complicated and impractical. If you really want a superb network feed you need a C Band dish, and a Unity Motion receiver to pick up the Network HD feeds via satellite. The crap that is on the little dishes is far worse than the local feeds from the networks.

I was just about to respond but Art took the words out of my mouth. It is definitely the over-compression that both DirecTV and Dish do to cram more channels into the same bandwidth. I just got the DirecTV HR20 HD DVR and the HD locals via the dish look horrible compared to the ones I get with an OTA antenna. It looks fine with still scenes, but as soon as there is any motion it becomes a block-fest. This used to be acceptable when I didn't know any better, but when you see what HD is capable of with an HD disc player, it is just a night and day difference.

-Dave

Jeff,

I get motion artifacts watching football on Satellite HDTV/HDMI input all the time. I think this is the inherent problem with 1080i. The colors are also more saturated, flesh tones are more red.

Chuong

I think you're seeing pixelation on fast motion due to low bit rate HD transmission.
I'm seeing what looks like clipping of high chroma or luma signals, giving a blotchy,
undetailed image. I've seen this with analog component SD sources like DVD, HDMI
sources like HD DVD and HD satellite.

I am beginning to think that my 25' HDMI cable between the VXP and projector might
be the culprit. I find this artifact to be very annoying, although I rarely see it with
HD DVD vs. HD satellite.

Jeff Regan

Jeff,

I am running a$100.00+ 50ft. jacketed HDMI cable. With three LG HDMI sources producing and reproducing HD local TV and my Motorola HDD20 DCII decoder feding theVXD 1080i YPrPb, i don't see it. My neighbor gets really pissed when he compares. Unfortunately, he can not install a big dish because of trees. I have over 300ft. between me and the treeline to the SW.

<<It's will be very difficult to find a video box that will satisfy all your audio needs.>>


Look up the Anthem D2.

Luis

Jeff and Chuongvu,

I have the greatest respect for the both of you but I can assure you that if you watch a network feed or watch the originating C or Ku band feed there are no artifacts. The problem is with hDish and Direct. My neighbor has the blockiness and he uses Dish. When things move quickly, it looks like SH... He keeps wanting to tie into my 12 ft reflector but that gets very complicated and impractical. If you really want a superb network feed you need a C Band dish, and a Unity Motion receiver to pick up the Network HD feeds via satellite. The crap that is on the little dishes is far worse than the local feeds from the networks.

Hi Art,

Yes, I'm aware of the the better signal with C-band dish. However, I don't know of any small size C-band dish. The average size is 6 ft. I live in California, and we don't have big yards. Maybe, I can install a medium size dish for better reception. Watching football is not too bad. I see motion artifacts but no pixelation.

I heard the RCA 18" dish is better than the one Dish provides. Do you know of any small (less than 2') C-band dish?

Chuong

Hi Guys,

I will load the pictures tomorrow.

Chuong

Hi Guys,

Sorry about the delay, too many Holiday parties. But here are the pictures of the hush box.

I insulated the inside heavily, so I can barely hear the fan at zero ambient sound.

Chuong

Chongvu,

I suggest you visit <http://forums.satforums.com/SatForumMaster/start/login.php?webtag=4DTV>.

Ask about FTA MPEG and the type of dish you will need to receive Ku band. This is where most of the network digital feeds are.