[QUOTE=SimpleTheater]My unit has exhibited this problem twice. The first after two months (probably 85 hours on the bulb). I watched it flash its blue led's and shut itself down after about 30 seonds. Then I shut it down by unplugging it AND uplugging the scalar box. I let it sit for 2 hours, then plugged it in again.

The issue didn't arise again until this past Wednesday (about four months of ownership and 137 hours on the bulb). We had just turned it on and the room was cool - about 50° F (we keep it cool and turn on the heat when we use the theater).
The HD81 wasn't on for more than three minutes when the blue screen appeared. I didn't even hesitate, got up and shut off the scalar box (I didn't unplug it just hit the big silver button). Five minutes later I restarted everything and other than losing ALL my settings, it worked fine.

Their may be a difference in our particular problems as when my pj image turns to blue it comes back to the picture anywhere between fifteen to thirty-five seconds later. All the time the blue screen is present we are still getting audio. I don't have to unplug anything and then re-boot, it just comes back by itself and then may not occur again for the rest of the movie.

Their may be a difference in our particular problems as when my pj image turns to blue it comes back to the picture anywhere between fifteen to thirty-five seconds later. All the time the blue screen is present we are still getting audio. I don't have to unplug anything and then re-boot, it just comes back by itself and then may not occur again for the rest of the movie.

MCBRacer,

I'm sure this is unlikely, but your HD81 is not in "Film Mode 48Hz" is it? You might
want to try the projector in High Altitude mode to see if that makes a difference.
I assume you were using Brite Mode, but not High Altitude?

MCBRacer,

I'm sure this is unlikely, but your HD81 is not in "Film Mode 48Hz" is it? You might
want to try the projector in High Altitude mode to see if that makes a difference.
I assume you were using Brite Mode, but not High Altitude?

Hi Jeff,

No, the PJ is not in 48Hz mode. We are not running Brite mode either. I have now put the HA fan on but I can't get to see if that's a fix or not until everyone clears out of here! You wouldn't believe how many people we have working at the house at the moment!

It seems that people have different ideas about what is causing the blue screen. Some seem to believe it is an overheating issue, while some believe it to be a connection problem. If it is an overheating problem, I think we can fix that. We went to the trouble of putting a cool air feed duct to the PJ, keeping in mind that we will eventually build a hush box once evertything is sorted. I just want to know how Optoma were able to run the HD81 all day long at Cedia without it going to blue screen ..... or did it? Perhaps they were running an external fan, to keep it cool!

I'll keep you posted, after further testing this evening!

Hi Jeff,

No, the PJ is not in 48Hz mode. We are not running Brite mode either. I have now put the HA fan on but I can't get to see if that's a fix or not until everyone clears out of here! You wouldn't believe how many people we have working at the house at the moment!

It seems that people have different ideas about what is causing the blue screen. Some seem to believe it is an overheating issue, while some believe it to be a connection problem. If it is an overheating problem, I think we can fix that. We went to the trouble of putting a cool air feed duct to the PJ, keeping in mind that we will eventually build a hush box once evertything is sorted. I just want to know how Optoma were able to run the HD81 all day long at Cedia without it going to blue screen ..... or did it? Perhaps they were running an external fan, to keep it cool!

I'll keep you posted, after further testing this evening!

Being I have not seen what the "blue screen" actually looks like I have a question.

If it is caused by overheating I would expect the bulb to turn off. If the bulb turns off what is creating the blue screen?

Joe

"All the time the blue screen is present we are still getting audio. I don't have to unplug anything and then re-boot, it just comes back by itself and then may not occur again for the rest of the movie."

Which is why I think it's dropping sync from either the RS-232 or HDMI connections.

"All the time the blue screen is present we are still getting audio. I don't have to unplug anything and then re-boot, it just comes back by itself and then may not occur again for the rest of the movie."

Which is why I think it's dropping sync from either the RS-232 or HDMI connections.

We went ahead and shielded out the RS-232 but that did not make a difference. Things are doing better now, after turning the fan speed up to the high altitude setting, as per Jeff Regan's suggestion. I'm not yet going to say this is the cure, that would be the kiss of death, but so far (after three hours of continuous running) we have not seen a blue screen. Perhaps it is an overheating issue. As to why the screen turns to blue, I have no idea!

If the problem occurs again we will try another HDMI cable. I'll report back.

As a footnote .... in Greg Roger's review, he mentioned brightness not being uniform across the screen. We have a curved screen and perhaps this helps with that issue? I cannot see any difference across the entire screen width, not with the naked eye anyway.

On mine I took a look at a 100IRE white 1080i signal to see how the pixels were resolved and thought uniformity of white was excellent. I think Optoma rates it at 95%. You know I wasn't happy with the CR measurment I got which was 2880.1. I did get higher with the sensor back at the screen about 1000.1 more with a black level of 0.006. Darin asked me to put the sensor close to the lens which is when it went to 2880.1 and black when up to 0.026. Still I expected higher but defintely more happy than what Greg got with his projector. I don't know what he uses to test, I do know he checks things at the screen distance. With the auto Iris and AI going I got 6000.1 close up to the lens and 9000.1 back by the screen. Anyway I wouldn't freak about it the picture still looks awesome IMO. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was pure eye candy. :)

On the blue screen, I'll bet if in the menu's you set it to blanking black you'll drop off to a blank screen instead of blue.

On the blue screen, I'll bet if in the menu's you set it to blanking black you'll drop off to a blank screen instead of blue.


Tom that would be the only way to tell if it is a sync issue with the VP.

Dale

Right they're dropping video the bulb isn't acting funny. I think if the RS-232 drops off it will shut the PJ down, anybody see that happen?

Well, I had a blue screen interruption last night, first one since having a few when first using
my replacement HD81. I have 120 hours on this projector and it had been on for
a few hours when, one hour into an HD DVD, it went blue for around 15 seconds. Audio
continued, no HDMI interruption, video came back, projector didn't shut down, just flashing
blue light--I think the power light. The book says there can be a flashing blue light for
power off(cooling-power led) or a flashing blue light for RS-232 interruption(temp. led).
I'm not sure now which light it was.

Curiously, this has only happened when watching HD DVD's, never when viewing satellite via HDMI. The one thing that was out of the ordinary last night is that it was warmer than
usual in the home theater due to higher outside temperatures.

The one thing that was out of the ordinary last night is that it was warmer than
usual in the home theater due to higher outside temperatures.

same here last night. I think it got up to -2F. :eek:

Joe

Yeah don't hurt em in the cold zones, yep over 70degrees yesterday. :) Another 70's day today. I'd focus in on the RS-232, how about a little D-5 sprayed on the connector ends. I use the stuff all the time they says it makes for better connections. More juice

Jeff,

That is exactly what happens if I run mine in a mode requiring low blower. In order to get it back, I must turn everything off and start again remembering to quickly change to high brightness or high aaltitude. I have had no episodes lately because I run it a high brightness all the time. I bet youtr HD DVD unit is sending out a hotter video than some of your other equipment.

Several of you commented on my friends' comments regarding the loss of detail. I apologize for my poor description of their comment. The loss of "detail" they referred to is in the darker areas of the picture, not the sharpness or absolute detail/resolution context. Anyone watching this set would have to agree that when you set the brightness or the gamma settings at a level where shadow detail becomes visible, the gorgeous inky blacks that the set can deliver turn to gray. I prefer to lose some of the shadow detail rather than see gray.

Tom,

D-5, tuner cleaner or even PB Blaster aren't goingto solve this one. Jeff and i are both running gC08 and we both have had the same experience although i appears that Jeff can watch on normal brightness for extended periods of time without a problem. This difference might be due to the fact that LG runs its output levels hot and therefore cause the projector to output higher video levels. This has been a great disappointment.

After all the blue screen episodes we had experienced earlier yesterday and before that, we did not have any re-occurence last night having set the PJ to High Altitude mode. As it was a loud movie the extra fan noise was not a concern. At this point I am believing this blue screen phenomenon to be an overheating issue, not anything to do with cable connections.

As we are going to be shrouding the HD81 in a hush box the fan noise will not be an issue. I hope we will be able to overcome any overheating issues, due to enclosing the PJ, by pumping cool air in to the box as well as utilizing a remote fan assisted exhaust sysytem.

Everything else on my HD81 (so far) is looking great. Both blu-ray and HD-DVD's look fantastic. We haven't been able to check out HDTV yet, our brand new DirecTV HD DVR failed immediately upon boot up! X-Box looks great, but I'm still trying to hide that from the wife!

What bothers me is the bulb's not turning off, which is what should happen if the PJ's overheating. What's happening with the tech area, what do they do what do they say?

Replacment machines would be nice, puts you back to day one. :)

Jeff,
I bet youtr HD DVD unit is sending out a hotter video than some of your other equipment.

Art, I think you may be on to something here. Everytime I've had the blue screen,
and the first few times it shut down as well, it was HD DVD on a bright, outdoors scene.

Last night it was "The Searchers", which has many bright exteriors in Monument
Valley, and the previous movies were also on outdoor scenes.

Art, I think you may be on to something here. Everytime I've had the blue screen,
and the first few times it shut down as well, it was HD DVD on a bright, outdoors scene.

Last night it was "The Searchers", which has many bright exteriors in Monument
Valley, and the previous movies were also on outdoor scenes.

Interesting. Was it always HDMI too? I have always been component and have never seen a blue screen.

Joe

Tom,

If the overheating is causing a solid state device in the video control path to run away, a blue screen (the default mode of a no video signal situation) could well be the result. I believe for the bulb to shut down, the temperature in the projector must exceed some defined level. This is not happening. Instead, I believe what we are seeing is caused by thermal runaway which causes the junction in a solid state device to pass too much current (stop behaving properly). In this case causing the video signal path to be interrupted. The RS232 path could be similarly affected without the thermal shutoff trigerring.

Interesting. Was it always HDMI too? I have always been component and have never seen a blue screen.

Joe

Joe, yes, and I am beginning to think you are the smartest guy in the room because
you made the decision to stay component analog from the beginning. How I wish
there was no HDMI, but HD SDI at the consumer level instead. Never had any problems with SDI or HD SDI with my broadcast video equipment. I wouldn't put up
with it at the professional level. Which begs the question, why do we consumers
put up with so much hassle from our expensive electronics toys?

Jeff: absolutely agree with all that.

There was no need to re-invent anything.

Nick :(

from what I have read, optoma hd81 is really great for the money.

my411family gave it a 5 start and other websites like projectorcentral and so on.
i have yet to see the projector, but compared to other 1080p, seems like a great deal.

Joe, yes, and I am beginning to think you are the smartest guy in the room because you made the decision to stay component analog from the beginning.

thanks but I just joined the club ;)

I bought one of those Xbox DVD drives. So now I have connected one of the DVI outputs from my htPC to a HDMI input on the processor.

So far so good though. I have watched 3 HD movies with this setup and have not seen the blue screen yet. If I do though I can always take the computer back to its component output.

I can also confirm, if it hasn't been done yet (I cannot remember), that the HDMI inputs can receive 1080p signals.

Joe

OK, third night of extensive viewing and no blue screen issues. I am still running on high altitude setting. Today I will go back to the normal fan level and go through the same program material and see what happens. If I get a blue screen then I think we can safely determine the problem. I will be contacting Optoma with my findings but I have a sneaky suspicion they are already full aware of this situation and likely new about it all along! You can bet that their demo's at Cedia, etc, were all run at the high altitude setting.

Everyone who comes by and looks at the picture pq are blown away and all go home ready to negotiate with their respective wives! Naturally I have urged them to wait until the HD81 is fully sorted, if ever, but no one listens anyway!

MCB

I will be contacting Optoma with my findings but I have a sneaky suspicion they are already full aware of this situation and likely new about it all along! You can bet that their demo's at Cedia, etc, were all run at the high altitude setting.
MCB

MCBRacer,

My first HD81 never had the problem in over 200 hours. I think there are many out
there with HD81's who haven't had the issue. In fact, it seems like the early units
were less prone to this.

I think Art may have an interesting theory regarding high APL scenes. Do you recall
if the blue screen problems you've experienced were during bright or dark scenes?

I watched "The Departed" last night, a 2 1/2 hour movie, in normal bulb mode with
no issues. It was not as warm in the room as the previous night, and the scenes
weren't as bright as "The Searchers".

[QUOTE=Jeff Regan]MCBRacer,

My first HD81 never had the problem in over 200 hours. I think there are many out
there with HD81's who haven't had the issue. In fact, it seems like the early units
were less prone to this.

I think Art may have an interesting theory regarding high APL scenes. Do you recall
if the blue screen problems you've experienced were during bright or dark scenes?

Well I think I am looking at absolute confirmation that my blue screen issues are caused through some kind of overheating problem. I ran throught the exact same program material last night, two complete movies, as I had the previous evening. This time I ran the PJ on normal fan mode and after thirty minutes there it was, the blue screen. It happened repeatedly, each interval being longer and longer the further in to the movie. This was not particular to any bright scenes either, it was random.

After I had taken about as much as I could, I put the pj back in to high altitude mode and from there on, no blue screen.

Well I think I am looking at absolute confirmation that my blue screen issues are caused through some kind of overheating problem. I ran throught the exact same program material last night, two complete movies, as I had the previous evening. This time I ran the PJ on normal fan mode and after thirty minutes there it was, the blue screen. It happened repeatedly, each interval being longer and longer the further in to the movie. This was not particular to any bright scenes either, it was random.

After I had taken about as much as I could, I put the pj back in to high altitude mode and from there on, no blue screen.

Sounds like you've got it nailed! Does your HD81 put out a burning smell? My second one did, along with a few blue screens, then it stopped on both counts,
except for the blue screen the other night at 120 hours.

You need to get the projector tested in the hush box to make sure it will work
in high altitude mode. All of us experiencing this issue need to contact Optoma
service.

Jeff and MCB,

While I believe that high average video levels may exacerbate the video signal or RS232 circuit interruption (if we are to believe the flashing blue light), I believe that in C08 the settings may have raised the heat load on the HD81's control or video circuitry to a level that causes thermal runaway. Are you using C08 MCB?

Another possibility is that some bulbs run hotter than others requiring more cooling. Whatever the cause, it does portend badly for the future of our HD81. If it is engineered with such tight tolerances with such a small margin of error for heat, we can expect trouble down the line. These devices abhor high temperatures. Temperature related failures represent THE #1 killer of CE. It is actually a greater killer than consumer error lie misconnection and improper use. Manufacturers normaly design for wide margins of heat tolerance. I am again disappointed. Perhaps the glss is indeed more empty than full when it comes to the HD81. Even so...We own it and I am going to try to get 5 years out of it.

Jeff,

I contaced Optoma about this and they claimed they had never seen this. They offered to exchage again but frankly after experiencing the awful picture of #2, I am holding on to thgis one because th picture is much better than #2.

[QUOTE=MrHifi]Jeff and MCB,

While I believe that high average video levels may exacerbate the video signal or RS232 circuit interruption (if we are to believe the flashing blue light), I believe that in C08 the settings may have raised the heat load on the HD81's control or video circuitry to a level that causes thermal runaway. Are you using C08 MCB?

Mr HiFi,

Yes mine is C08, the first incarnation. Jeff's is a later version I believe.

Jeff,

My PJ does not have any strange smell to it.

I would imagine this would void the warranty, but I wonder, if you were to take a drill to the case and put a lot of holes around the hot spots, if that would cure the overheating issue. Drastic indeed! I think we will be ok when we enclose the pj in the hush box as we will be forcing cool air on to the projector and then exhausting the hot air. We will see!

My CO8 bears date 11/30/06. I have a strong smell at times even in high brightness mode. In low mode or if I place a bright image on hold, a burning smell is a certainty.

MCB I do not believe the cooling equipnt will have any effect on the blue screen issue that those of us with C08 are experiencing. If it is occurring because of a change in the operating level of critical parts of the circuitry due to changes in the firmware, that portion of the circuit that is running away will continue to be overstressed. I tried blowing a fan at the projector when it was in normal blower, low light mode to see if I might avoid the dreaded blue screen. It made no difference.

I recieved a new CO8 to replace my CO6 that keeps shutting off on me. Now I have bright spot on the upper part of the image when in a dark scene. It is about the size of a grapefruit. only visable in dark or black scenes. The rest of the picture is Ok.

Not a real happy camper.

I recieved a new CO8 to replace my CO6 that keeps shutting off on me. Now I have bright spot on the upper part of the image when in a dark scene. It is about the size of a grapefruit. only visable in dark or black scenes. The rest of the picture is Ok.

Not a real happy camper.

Ok, so here we have an HD81 owner that had the shutdown issue with C06. This
tells us that the shutdown issue is prevalent and not limited to C08.

I think the fact that MCBRacer does not have the issue in high altitude, ditto Mr. Hifi,
tells us this is a viable workaround(bandaid).

The bright spot issue that tjgar is having is one I haven't heard of. The number of HD81 owners who are forum members on their second HD81 is disconcerting as are the multitude of ongoing issues.

Having said that, on a brighter note, I watched the Back to the Future series on HDNet with no issues and I even tried Film Mode 48Hz, which seemed to work without the weird frame rates I used to see with the previous projector and C08. Was it better than 60i? I couldn't see the difference, but the color wheel spinning slower makes the projector quieter.

Hmmm,

I have been running in film mode for quite some time now. I also just checked my bulb and I am at 485 hours now. I am also on C04.

I am feeling extremely lucky having not experienced any of the issues so far.

Joe

Hmmm,

I have been running in film mode for quite some time now. I also just checked my bulb and I am at 485 hours now. I am also on C04.

Joe

Joe, I was unaware that C04 had Film Mode 48Hz. C06 does not have it.

The bright spot issue that tjgar is having is one I haven't heard of. The number of HD81 owners who are forum members on their second HD81 is disconcerting as are the multitude of ongoing issues.

Not only do I have a bright spot, but there is somthing else I noticed. The C08 unit has a lot of light leakage. The cieling right above the projector is lit up. I don't remember that kind of light leakage before. Does anyone else have this?

TONY

Not only do I have a bright spot, but there is somthing else I noticed. The C08 unit has a lot of light leakage. The cieling right above the projector is lit up. I don't remember that kind of light leakage before. Does anyone else have this?

I'm on C05 and I don't notice much light leakage. I also have a black ceiling, so it might absorb a lot of the light that is leaking, but looking directly at the ceiling above the HD81, I don't see much light.

tigar,

I noticed that bright spot with my second projector, #2. #3 is not any worse than my first unit in that respect. I believe the scattered light issue is due to construction variability not a deliberate design change.

I'm on C05 and I don't notice much light leakage. I also have a black ceiling, so it might absorb a lot of the light that is leaking, but looking directly at the ceiling above the HD81, I don't see much light.


I have a pretty dark ceiling, and the light leakage is Very noticable.
The spot of light on the screen is noticable in dark scenes. And it is Very noticable in the upper bar when viewing 2.35/1 movies. Very distracting!

Tony

I have a pretty dark ceiling, and the light leakage is Very noticable.
The spot of light on the screen is noticable in dark scenes. And it is Very noticable in the upper bar when viewing 2.35/1 movies. Very distracting!

Tony
It's time to get a new unit.

I have a pretty dark ceiling, and the light leakage is Very noticable.
The spot of light on the screen is noticable in dark scenes. And it is Very noticable in the upper bar when viewing 2.35/1 movies. Very distracting!

It's time to get a new unit.

I would agree. I have a slight half-moon spot of light that appears about 3 feet to the right if the projected image. But it only appears in full zoom. If you are in full zoom try backing it off a little and see if the stray light on the ceiling disappears.

But the light on the image is really disturbing. Sounds like maybe a mirror might be malfunctioning?

Joe

Joe, I was unaware that C04 had Film Mode 48Hz. C06 does not have it.

Maybe they removed it to make the iris work better :D

Joe

Maybe they removed it to make the iris work better :D

Joe

Joe,

Are you sure you're not talking about "Image Mode", which offers "Film", "TV", "Graphic", "PC", and "User" modes? To my knowledge, "Film Mode 48Hz" was
not incorporated in C04, C05, or C06.

Make sure the bright spot is not the lens. If the gain of the screen is high, often the lens willl appear as a bright spot in the image.

It's time to get a new unit.


Your right. I just got in contact with Optoma again, they said send it back. They think that maybe the engine or bulb got dislodged in shipping.

This will be my 3rd unit.

Tony G

Make sure the bright spot is not the lens. If the gain of the screen is high, often the lens willl appear as a bright spot in the image.

Wadya know. I never would have thought of that. :rolleyes: If it is the lens then the reflection should move as he moves, correct?

Joe

Wadya know. I never would have thought of that. :rolleyes: If it is the lens then the reflection should move as he moves, correct?

Joe


I am not quite sure what you mean, but the spot is stationary. It doesnt move, my guess it is some kind of inner engine or lamp spillage.

Your right. I just got in contact with Optoma again, they said send it back. They think that maybe the engine or bulb got dislodged in shipping.

This will be my 3rd unit.

Tony G

Is it just me or does this seem to be the norm? Multiple replacements to finally get one that works (well)?

Is it just me or does this seem to be the norm? Multiple replacements to finally get one that works (well)?

I agree but I have the opposite problem. I have a working one with C04. I want to get to the newer firmware but don't want to send mine in. :(

Joe

I am not quite sure what you mean, but the spot is stationary. It doesnt move, my guess it is some kind of inner engine or lamp spillage.

If I understand Art correctly could what you are seeing actually be a reflection on the screen from the lens itself? Kind of like seeing the brightness of the lens in a mirror.

What is the brighteness of your screen?

Joe

If I understand Art correctly could what you are seeing actually be a reflection on the screen from the lens itself? Kind of like seeing the brightness of the lens in a mirror.

What is the brighteness of your screen?

Joe


I have a firehauk 1.25.

The bright spot has a defined shape that does not move, kind of like a negative shadow.

tony.

I agree but I have the opposite problem. I have a working one with C04. I want to get to the newer firmware but don't want to send mine in. :(

Joe
I'm with Joe on this. I have had two short lived problems with C05 that have not returned. I really wanted Film Mode 48hz, but the idea of taking it down and getting C08 only to get a new unit with possible light leakage, blue screens in low lamp mode, etc. makes me want to just suck it up and keep C05.

Even if they don't send a new unit, they have to open up the box to do the upgrade - otherwise they'd let us do it through the serial port - and the problems with returned units has me on edge.

I really feel for MrHiFi and others who have to keep their unit in bright mode or get a blue screen - even though this is their second or third unit. IMO, it's completely unacceptable that they don't test a unit for all issues before sending out a new one.

If anyone from Optoma is listening (reading) - your support is terrible. I'm going to keep this unit for about three-five years, but I doubt I'll buy another Optoma again. Good customer service would be to contact all owners of non-updateable firmware and tell them that when you finalize C08 we will be issued UPS tracking tags and turnaround will be < 2 weeks. We'll also have a customer service rep who is dedicated to our case who will resolve any problems with new units ASAP.

Apart from my blue screen issue, which requires that I set the fan to the high altitude setting (not bright mode), I have no issues with my HD81 (yet?). I will not be sending my HD81 back to Optoma for fear that I will get one back that has more serious problems! What a terrible statement to have to make! Got that, Optoma?

I'll live with this for the time being and wait until Cedia and see what's coming up next.

Oh, and another quick message to Optoma ... Whatever happened to the promise of downloadable firmware updates with CO8?

With all due respect, I disagree with the theory that a thermal problem should shut off the lamp.

The blue screen symptom is exactly the same as if you simply disconnect the RS-232 cable. The projector could easily have a thermal problem with the RS-232 circuitry that looks like a disconnected cable, but not "overheating" to the point where the lamp shuts off.

-doug-

What bothers me is the bulb's not turning off, which is what should happen if the PJ's overheating. What's happening with the tech area, what do they do what do they say?

Replacment machines would be nice, puts you back to day one. :)

The first time the blue screen happened to me, I went through a self-designed diagnostic program to determine the cause. I noticed that the High Altitude mode solved the problem, so I covered the air inlet port (still in HA mode), and the blue screen returned.

To double check this, I went back to Normal fan mode, waited for the inevitable blue screen, and then used a handheld hair dryer (on "no heat"), pointing it into the air intake grill. The blue screen went away.

During this entire "test" sequence, the lamp never shut off, and the video input was from a DVD player in Standby mode (so that the video input would be present, but at black level. It has nothing to do with APL, at least in my experience.

BTW, in case anyone cares, I'm a broadcast video engineer with 35 years of experience. That doesn't mean much, except that I do have a strong background in video and electrical engineering.

-doug-

[QUOTE=Jeff Regan]MCBRacer,

My first HD81 never had the problem in over 200 hours. I think there are many out
there with HD81's who haven't had the issue. In fact, it seems like the early units
were less prone to this.

I think Art may have an interesting theory regarding high APL scenes. Do you recall
if the blue screen problems you've experienced were during bright or dark scenes?

Well I think I am looking at absolute confirmation that my blue screen issues are caused through some kind of overheating problem. I ran throught the exact same program material last night, two complete movies, as I had the previous evening. This time I ran the PJ on normal fan mode and after thirty minutes there it was, the blue screen. It happened repeatedly, each interval being longer and longer the further in to the movie. This was not particular to any bright scenes either, it was random.

After I had taken about as much as I could, I put the pj back in to high altitude mode and from there on, no blue screen.

My shutdown problem is somewhat different from what I have seen others describe. I don't get a blue screen. There is no warning message. The lamp just shuts off without warning. The temp and power LEDs flash blue until the projector finishes its cool down cycle. Has anyone experienced anything like that?

It happened a number of times when I first got the projector and had the video processor in my equipment cabinet. I removed the processor from the cabinet and the problem stopped. Everything was fine since October. Then it happened a couple times last week and has been fine since. I was waiting until I hear that C08 is generally available before I contact Optoma.

Joe

My shutdown problem is somewhat different from what I have seen others describe. I don't get a blue screen. There is no warning message. The lamp just shuts off without warning. The temp and power LEDs flash blue until the projector finishes its cool down cycle. Has anyone experienced anything like that?

It happened a number of times when I first got the projector and had the video processor in my equipment cabinet. I removed the processor from the cabinet and the problem stopped. Everything was fine since October. Then it happened a couple times last week and has been fine since. I was waiting until I hear that C08 is generally available before I contact Optoma.

Joe

Joe,

Any chance that construction dust has gotten into the projector? How about blasting some high pressure air through the projector's fins? I have a small portable compressor if you need it.

Joe

Joe,

Any chance that construction dust has gotten into the projector? How about blasting some high pressure air through the projector's fins? I have a small portable compressor if you need it.

Joe

Hi Joe,

That is certainly possible. I did vaccuum the air intake. Come to think of it, it hasn't happened again since I did that. The confusing thing is that there was no construction going on when I first got the projector and the problem happened more frequently. Sporadic problems are always annoying because you never know if they are fixed. Fortunately, I have until fall before the terms of the warranty change from "replace" to "repair."

btw, Does anyone know if this projector has an air filter? There was nothing in the manual about cleaning or replacing a filter. My previous DLP projector ended up with dust blobs on the DMD which showed up on the screen.

Thanks

Joe

btw, Does anyone know if this projector has an air filter? There was nothing in the manual about cleaning or replacing a filter. My previous DLP projector ended up with dust blobs on the DMD which showed up on the screen.

Thanks

Joe

The HD81 does not have an air filter.

My shutdown problem is somewhat different from what I have seen others describe. I don't get a blue screen. There is no warning message. The lamp just shuts off without warning. The temp and power LEDs flash blue until the projector finishes its cool down cycle. Has anyone experienced anything like that?

That was my first issue with my HD81. The unit had been on for over three hours and it overheated.

My second issue was with the BlueScreen - which most likely was a problem the HD81 had communicating with the scalar.

Both of my issues are pretty minor. It's the horror stories about new units people are getting that is scaring me. MrHiFi specifically is holding on to a flawed unit because of the poor PQ quality he had with his second unit.

Optoma employees were only too happy to start this thread, but for the kind of money we paid I'd expect MrHiFi to get a personal phone call telling him a new unit is on the way and only AFTER he tests it should he send his exisiting unit back.

That was my first issue with my HD81. The unit had been on for over three hours and it overheated.

My second issue was with the BlueScreen - which most likely was a problem the HD81 had communicating with the scalar.

Both of my issues are pretty minor. It's the horror stories about new units people are getting that is scaring me. MrHiFi specifically is holding on to a flawed unit because of the poor PQ quality he had with his second unit.

Optoma employees were only too happy to start this thread, but for the kind of money we paid I'd expect MrHiFi to get a personal phone call telling him a new unit is on the way and only AFTER he tests it should he send his exisiting unit back.


This is starting to get to me. If you have read my posts, you would know that my first HD81 worked fine for 180hrs then I started to get shut-downs.
Monday optoma sent me a new unit CO8, and it had a bright spot on the screen, very annoying in dark scenes and on wide screen bars.
They sent me a new C08 today. Now I can only get a picture if I use the component inputs. The HDMI (on cable or HDDVD) are not recognized. and after about 10 seconds there is a pop sound and the whole system shuts off, no red or blue lights on the scaler. About 30 seconds later the red light comes back on.
So for the 3rd time I am putting my original unit back up. I now have two new units to send back to Optoma. (plus the old one if they can get me a new one THAT WORKS!
Iwish I never purchased this unit. Not because I think the picture is inferior, its because the the quality control sucks! And I am tired of uninstalling and re-installing.

I forgot to add, My cousin also bought an HD81 (on My recomendation ), And his was DOA, nothing but Green Lines! So of the 4 units I have knowledge of, none were without Issues!
Tony G.

I got the blue screen today shortly after power up and the image would not come back. I had
to power down the projector. I was watching a movie recorded from an HD DVR via HDMI and
the scene was dark, the room was not overly warm, normal bulb mode. Everything was fine
for the rest of the movie.

I wish we could get a hold of Optoma's replacement record with this unit. There is obviously something wrong with them. There I said it...You said I was crazy when I said this a few hundred posts ago. When the more knowledgeable folks on this forum go through three units and still have serious issues, one has to wonder about quality control. I decided to live with having to run full time in Bright mode because I've seen how bad other samples of this projector can be. If I were in your spot tigar, I would pack all of them up and demand a refund. Buy a Panasonic or anything else. This has been and continues to be an unpleasant experience.

Jeff,

I would set it on high brightness if I were you. The picture is better overall and I never get a blue screen. I bet that the quality testing and development work was done in high brightness mode by Optoma. Low level may have been added because of noise issues and the fact that every other projector has this feature. 38 dB SPL at 1 meter C weighted is way too loud. Marketing may have demanded a two step brightness to be competitive however, it appears the fan is less effective with their wind tunnel design and other parts off the projector are not being ventilated properly.

What a mess, this has to be the worst projector to be produced recently, I smell "class action"

Yes it is bad. Optoma should just recall the whole batch and start from the ground up with something else.

Dale

What a mess, this has to be the worst projector to be produced recently, I smell "class action"

I always here "class action" thrown around like it is going out of style. But as always no one ever does anything.

It takes a greedy law firm who wants to make a killing for themselves to create enough enthusiasm and go through the hassles.

BTW, has anyone thought about the fact that we will not be seeing deep color, i.e. HDMI 1.3 is unavailable on our VXD units. Workaround anyone?.

It takes a greedy law firm who wants to make a killing for themselves to create enough enthusiasm and go through the hassles.

BTW, has anyone thought about the fact that we will not be seeing deep color, i.e. HDMI 1.3 is unavailable on our VXD units. Workaround anyone?.
I've got my workaround all planned. When another projector comes out that blows away the Optoma (I don't mean better like the JVC RS1, but blows it away) I'm EBaying my HD81 and buying it (unless that new unit is an Optoma - then I'm staying far away). I figure in about three years such a product will exist and cost around $3,500.

It takes a greedy law firm who wants to make a killing for themselves to create enough enthusiasm and go through the hassles.


I'm looking forward to reading Kevin's response to this!

BTW, has anyone thought about the fact that we will not be seeing deep color, i.e. HDMI 1.3 is unavailable on our VXD units. Workaround anyone?.

Art,

Since HD DVD and Blu Ray don't support Deep Color, and the bandwidth starved
cable and satellite providers won't support it, that leaves the possibility of video
games. Deep Color is an answer to a question that wasn't asked, IMO.

Well, after reading the last 20 posts I have made my mind up, although the potential for an excellent picture exists with this projector, the HD81 is off my radar.

I commend all who have tried to make this one work but as most of you have said it has too many issues to warrant the expenditure. I also appreciate the candid responses and experiences because they give the rest of us the information we need to make an informed decision and that is what this forum is all about. :)

Thanks!

My HD-81 (co6) is still in the box as my theater is not yet finished. Fortunaely I was on the top of the pre buy list for the RS1 so it looks like I will be finding a home for the HD-81 and mounting the RS1. I hope I am making the right decision, but with ALL the issues with the Optoma I am not sure there is much choice. I am using a 123" FH and hope the RS1 is bright enough.
weatherby

Not only the wheels have fallen off the band wagon but the band wagon got all burned up.

I have followed this forum from the start and like to thank everyone for their input. I was so excited about this projector that I went to Infocomm06 to see it in action. Lucky that I live in Canada and it is hard to get one here. The concept of the Optoma HD81 was Great but the execution of the concept was failed. Now the Optoma HD81 is considered as a LEMON. My search continues for a projector.

After I modify Format 1 /Format 2 /etc. sometimes I get a message saying "Do you want to save settings", but most of the time I don't. Does anyone know how to FORCE a save to a Format?

I just re-read the manual and it says it will automatically ask. Sadly it doesn't always ask.

I was just re-reading the User Manual PDF document that came with my HD81. Does anyone else have this exact statement on page 39:
5) A complete gray level bar on the top of screen is shown while adjusting level; it may help user to see different effects with different value to decide a suitable value.
(Dana: I don’t understand this.)

I agree with the editor. Dana (who probably wrote this section) wrote a poor sentence, but you'd think Optoma would have at least proof-read their manual and removed editing notes before sending it to customers.

I was just re-reading the User Manual PDF document that came with my HD81. Does anyone else have this exact statement on page 39:
5) A complete gray level bar on the top of screen is shown while adjusting level; it may help user to see different effects with different value to decide a suitable value.
(Dana: I don’t understand this.)

I agree with the editor. Dana (who probably wrote this section) wrote a poor sentence, but you'd think Optoma would have at least proof-read their manual and removed editing notes before sending it to customers.

That's pretty funny! I just saw it on my PDF version of the manual. Obviously, the
PDF was released prior to the printed manual and was not proofed well. The bigger
problem is that the manual, be it PDF or printed, is just poorly written.

My HD-81 (co6) is still in the box as my theater is not yet finished. Fortunaely I was on the top of the pre buy list for the RS1 so it looks like I will be finding a home for the HD-81 and mounting the RS1. I hope I am making the right decision, but with ALL the issues with the Optoma I am not sure there is much choice. I am using a 123" FH and hope the RS1 is bright enough.
weatherby

weatherby,

It would be great if you could put the HD81 and RS-1 side by side. The CR of the
RS-1 should make for a much better black level in dark scenes, but the HD81 should have the edge on mixed bright and dark scenes. The HD81 has good lumens until it is calibrated for D65. I am impressed with how sharp the RS-1 is reported to be, but can't imagine how it could be more detailed than the HD81.
I recall reading a lot of posts about how sharp a Pearl was and it didn't look that way to me, compared to the HD81.

The JVC RS-1 is probably going to be an amazing projector, but right now it is the
golden child because it hasn't actually delivered in the U.S. Personally, I am leery
of any 3 panel projector due to convergence error. Convergence error correction
is not very effective when there are non-linear convergence errors--which is often
the case with all 3 panel projectors.

Were I to purchase a 1080p projector today, I would look very closely at the JVC
and the Sharp 20K. Either projector would require me to buy an external scaler
for connectivity and vertical expansion in the case of the JVC. Both would end up costing around $1500-$2500 more than an HD81, when the external processor is factored in.

I am also taking delivery of an RS-1 from the first AVScience shipment and my HD81 will be leaving me. I don't know that I'll have any overlap to do a side by side comparison. To be honest, my current HD81 (my third one I might add) is pretty lousy. It has discolored blotches, HDMI issues, amongst other problems.

The HD81 was a great concept with horrible execution. I will never buy another Optoma product. Their quality control is simply deplorable.

I am a long time DILA supporter, so in a sense I'm "coming home" with the RS-1.

Good luck, guys. I'll keep all RS-1 comments to the appropriate threads.

-Dave

I am also taking delivery of an RS-1 from the first AVScience shipment and my HD81 will be leaving me. I don't know that I'll have any overlap to do a side by side comparison. To be honest, my current HD81 (my third one I might add) is pretty lousy. It has discolored blotches, HDMI issues, amongst other problems.
-Dave

Dave,

Sorry to hear about your problems with your third HD81. How does a DLP projector have discolored blotches? Very odd. My HD81 doesn't have brightness or color uniformity issues which Greg Roger's review sample suffered from. I have a 25% fall off on the sides in brightness, but that is due to my Stewart ST130 1.3 gain screen. Color uniformity looks great. We keep seeing differences from unit to unit, which there should not be with a one chip DLP projector.

Clearly, Optoma is a business projector manufacturer first, a sector where many of the problems we've encountered for home theater usage are not issues in corporate board rooms. Although, good reliability should be necessary.

Optoma needs to take a hard look at their manufacturing, quality control and
customer service processes if they intend to stay in the home theater front projection market, especially with higher end offerings like the HD81 and HD81LV,
both of which are hamstrung from their business projector chassis. This must
be the reason why the Sharp 20K can do 9K CR without auto iris, while the HD81
struggles to do 2K and lower than expected lumens, despite having a more
powerful bulb. The next Optoma higher end product has to address, not only
performance, but reliability. I shudder to think of the quality control issues of a
3 chip Optoma projector!

[QUOTE=Jeff Regan]

My HD81 doesn't have brightness or color uniformity issues which Greg Roger's review sample suffered from. I have a 25% fall off on the sides in brightness, but that is due to my Stewart ST130 1.3 gain screen. Color uniformity looks great. We keep seeing differences from unit to unit, which there should not be with a one chip DLP projector.

Other than the blue screen isue, which was determined to be a problem with overheating (overcome temporarily by using the PJ in high altitude mode), I have not had one other issue with this product (so far?). I have virtually zero light fall off to the sides of my 122 inch ST 1.3 screen and I would perhaps put that down to the cinecurve screen. I have yet to fully get in to all the various settings I can play with, but one thing is for certain, I am not getting mine ISF'd! It would appear that an ISF calibration is detrimental to this projector.

We have determined a design, within the hush box, to direct cool air to the air intake of the PJ and this should enable me to go back to the lower fan setting. If not, well at least I have the hush box to all but illiminate any fan noise, if we still need to use the high altitude setting.

I am just totally in awe of the PQ and brightness of the HD81. I sincerly hope that Optoma improves on this product, as far as functionality, reliability and service are concerned, in the next evolution of this projector. They will have to do so, otherwise they will be back, solely, to the corporate boardrooms.

"Dave,

Sorry to hear about your problems with your third HD81. How does a DLP projector have discolored blotches? Very odd. My HD81 doesn't have brightness or color uniformity issues which Greg Roger's review sample suffered from."

My demo looked very good also plus it was allot brighter. I measured 27foot candles which if you times it by the screen sqaure footage gave me 918lumens on a 106"diag screen.

Optoma sent me a HD73 DC3 budget machine and the Ft.candles reading was on the low side 14ftc which is 476lumens on my screen. Pretty average and similar to the H77 the H79 was higher at near 18ftc. But for sure my eye's lit up when the meter registered 27ftc for the HD81. I suspect Greg got a bulb that wasn't up to par. Anybody else have a light meter that also registered high on their HD81?

Is it true that there may be a recall on these because of all the problems? A local shop guy said something to this effect to me the other day. Seems a LOT of people are having issues/problems according to him.

I doubt that, I assume it's not all the machines going to blue screen drop out. I figure what they would do is get back the machines with this problem. Test them out for a period and find the proper fix. In the mean time I would expect a PJ swap for the owners with the same problem.

I haven't talked to Optoma in a few weeks or so, you guys probably know more about it than me. The demo I had ran well and I put a good amount of hours on it with C06. How many guys are having the problem? If I could tell them a number it should help.

I assume it's not all the machines going to blue screen drop out. I figure what they would do is get back the machines with this problem.

How many guys are having the problem? If I could tell them a number it should help.

guitarman,

I count 8 forum members/HD81 owners with the blue screen and/or shut down issue. That represents a high percentage of HD81 owners who post on this forum. There is also a high percentage of HD81 owners who are on their second and even third units from a product that has only been delivering for 5 months.

That is only one issue of many that owners have encountered. My second HD81, with the newer version of C08, has features that no longer work, which worked with the previous C08. We know that Optoma will have to have every HD81 with C04, C05 and C06 returned in order to get new firmware and a motherboard mod. so that someday they will be able to download from the net. Although, from the sounds of it, a large number of HD81's have already been returned and exchanged due to various issues, both hardware and firmware. :(

guitarman,

I count 8 forum members/HD81 owners with the blue screen and/or shut down issue. That represents a high percentage of HD81 owners who post on this forum. There is also a high percentage of HD81 owners who are on their second and even third units from a product that has only been delivering for 5 months.

That is only one issue of many that owners have encountered. My second HD81, with the newer version of C08, has features that no longer work, which worked with the previous C08. We know that Optoma will have to have every HD81 with C04, C05 and C06 returned in order to get new firmware and a motherboard mod. so that someday they will be able to download from the net. Although, from the sounds of it, a large number of HD81's have already been returned and exchanged due to various issues, both hardware and firmware. :(

My original unit (Co6) has the shut down problem, but it is the one I still use.
The 2 CO6 units are waiting to go back, as they are not usable in there current state with different issues. I now have an additional $13000. on my credit card for these two items, and it seems to take an act of congress for Optoma to take them back. They say they only sent me one unit but they sent two and billed for two. The only unit that they have given me an RMA for is the original unit that I am still using.

I have absolutely no faith in this product.
Really fed up!

Tony

guitarman,

I count 8 forum members/HD81 owners with the blue screen and/or shut down issue. That represents a high percentage of HD81 owners who post on this forum. There is also a high percentage of HD81 owners who are on their second and even third units from a product that has only been delivering for 5 months.

That is only one issue of many that owners have encountered. My second HD81, with the newer version of C08, has features that no longer work, which worked with the previous C08. We know that Optoma will have to have every HD81 with C04, C05 and C06 returned in order to get new firmware and a motherboard mod. so that someday they will be able to download from the net. Although, from the sounds of it, a large number of HD81's have already been returned and exchanged due to various issues, both hardware and firmware. :(

They said they only know a two people that sent in the H81 for the blue screen drop outs. So I'd say if you have the problem send it in and pick up C08 while it's there. Anyway on the firmware it's still the same they need both units to get the C08 firmware updated. But future updates would be done via a website. There are things in the working for the HD81 and the future 1080p machine which sound very good. I can't say what but it should make owners very happy.

I hope things iron out smoothly.

Guitarman,

Can you be a little more specific on the 'future' of the HD81? What exactly does Optoma have in mind ? ANY info on this would be greatly appreciated...trust me.

Thanks in advance.
GreekViking

Guitarman,

Can you be a little more specific on the 'future' of the HD81? What exactly does Optoma have in mind ? ANY info on this would be greatly appreciated...trust me.

Thanks in advance.
GreekViking

It may be too late to stem the tide, With comments that 'they' only know of 2 owners reporting blue screens they don't seem to be in touch. :cool:

Tom,

A while back I told Warren about this thread. He said he was going to have his engineers take a look at it. Seems like that did not happen.

Joe

Tom,

A while back I told Warren about this thread. He said he was going to have his engineers take a look at it. Seems like that did not happen.

Joe

I don't believe a manufacturer or customer should use a web forum as part of the
customer service process. It is incumbant upon us as owners to work through Optoma's normal customer service process.

I have corresponded with TzungILin from Optoma in Taiwan, the original poster of
this huge thread, and asked him why he is not active on this thread now that the
HD81 is in customer's hands. He has responded on two occassions that Optoma
USA prefers that North American customers deal with them and have one conduit
of communication, so he has to stay out of the loop.

Optoma USA's approach is not unusual among manufacturers, but I do believe that somebody at Optoma monitors this thread from time to time.

I don't believe a manufacturer or customer should use a web forum as part of the
customer service process. It is incumbant upon us as owners to work through Optoma's normal customer service process.

Why shouldnt they? I would think the best advertising that they could buy from this forum is happy customers reporting their great experiences, or quick resolves, or well QCed replacements.

I cant imagine how many more HD81s they would have sold by now if not for the mountain of crap that they continue to have piled on them for real ****** customer service, on top of a very questionable product.

Tom,

I have some swampland I want to sell you.... Honestly Tom, how can you believe these guys at Optoma and represent a glorious future for us who own the HD81? When i talked to Warren Pierce he said they had never heard of a "Blue Screen Issue". That is a CROCK. I'm not exchnging mine again unless something fails DEAD in it. The variability in PQ should keep anyone who loves the picture quality of their unit from exchanging it. Read the comments guy. The replacements appear to be in worse shape than the earlier units. I pity the poor guy who now has my #2 unit. (Any of you have one that just does not quite look focused?) Optoma will have to pry this one out of my hands. My 2 replacement units were checked by their Techs according to Warren. That is hard to believe considering the condition of #2. I must admit however that #3 looked dso good out of the box at the User1 settings, that I have not ben tempted to adjust it. Maybe they did check it.

I don't believe a manufacturer or customer should use a web forum as part of the
customer service process. It is incumbant upon us as owners to work through Optoma's normal customer service process.

A good example for how this can work to their benefit is Josh on the DVDO threads in the video processor forum.

There was a DVR produced by LG that was a disaster in its original inception. Over a period of 1 and a half years, comments by members of the LST-3410A forum caused LG to make significant changes to the software and the product turned out to be so good that many of us bought 3 or 4 of them. Optoma needs to look around and see how other manufacturers have handled lemons like the HD81. Customers have long memories. Unhappy customers become the reason that some products fail and the engineers and techs supporting such products get fired.

There was a DVR produced by LG that was a disaster in its original inception.

Speaking of DVR's, I now have the DirecTV HR-20 HD DVR and the Dish VIP 622 HD DVR. I didn't have high expectations of the DirecTV HR-20 due to reported bugs, but
I've only had to reset it once so far and it requires DVI-PC level on the HD81, instead of DVI-Video, which the newest version of C08 had allowed for all sources vs. C06 and the older C08 working better with DVI-PC level.

Changing topic a bit. I have a VP12S1 18 ft back from a 110" FireHawk. Would the Optoma be a good replacement for my Marantz? I considered the Sharp 20K, but I expect it to be too dim after several hundred hours.

hjackson

Yes I believe it would be a good replacement as far as brightness goes. I bought my HD-81 to project on a 123" FH from 18'. I chose the Optoma because it had the highest lumen rating for the current 1080P projectors. I haven't actually experienced it first hand as the projector is still in the unopened box waiting for my theater to be finished. I was also on the pre buy list for the JVC RS1 and I am thinking of switching to it.

Why shouldnt they? I would think the best advertising that they could buy from this forum is happy customers reporting their great experiences, or quick resolves, or well QCed replacements.

I cant imagine how many more HD81s they would have sold by now if not for the mountain of crap that they continue to have piled on them for real ****** customer service, on top of a very questionable product.
I agree. We could still have one conduit of communication, but just a reply from an Optoma employee who says "Guys, our customer service phone reps have been briefed on your problem. Call them up and they'll have UPS pick up your units. Me and my guys will personally fix them, upgrade you to C08 and have them back in no time."

"I was also on the pre buy list for the JVC RS1 and I am thinking of switching to it."

The JVC RS1 definitely sounds intriguing, but won't it be too dim for a FH screen that size?

hjackson

tigar,

I hope this is helpful. When I returned units #1 and #2 to Optoma, there was some confusion as to the whereabouts of my returned units. Optoma issues two return slips/RMA #'s for each return. One fr the projector and one for the VXD. When UPS picked up both pieces at my hme, they were of course in the same box and required only one tracking #, RMA #. Optoma was looking for the unused number. This actually happened twwice. I guess the shipping department is not aware of product configuration. I mention his in the hopes it is pertinent to your situation. Good Luck my friend.

tigar,

I hope this is helpful. When I returned units #1 and #2 to Optoma, there was some confusion as to the whereabouts of my returned units. Optoma issues two return slips/RMA #'s for each return. One fr the projector and one for the VXD. When UPS picked up both pieces at my hme, they were of course in the same box and required only one tracking #, RMA #. Optoma was looking for the unused number. This actually happened twwice. I guess the shipping department is not aware of product configuration. I mention his in the hopes it is pertinent to your situation. Good Luck my friend.

I think I'll need the luck. I have not had too much luck so far, 3 for 3 bad units.
Friday Optoma was supposed to e-mail me UPS return tickets. I did not receive them. I called Optoma Monday and talked to the same person, and he said there was a mix-up but he would e-mail them Monday for sure. Again he did not follow through. Right now I still have about $13,000. on my Visa, that I would like to get off!
What I would really like is my money back, but I don't think that will ever happen.

Thanks for the help

Tony

hjackson I really would like to know the answer to that question. I think I will post it on one of the rs1 threads. I was hoping a rs1 calibrated (700 lumens) will be about what the hd-81 is calibrated. Anyone here want to chime in on this subject?

hjackson I really would like to know the answer to that question. I think I will post it on one of the rs1 threads. I was hoping a rs1 calibrated (700 lumens) will be about what the hd-81 is calibrated. Anyone here want to chime in on this subject?
From what I've read you're almost right. A calibrated RS1 seems to be in the 650 lumen range, similar to the HD81, but out-of-the-box the RS1 is about 700 lumens, where as the HD81 is closer to 900 lumens.

If you really need lumens, the Infocus 777 has them in spades.

To all those sending HD81's in for fixes and/or CO8 upgrades, be warned that it seems the second incarnation of CO8 has bugs the first version did not have! I have the original version of CO8 and apart from my blue screen issue (again, fixed for now by using HA mode) I am not experiencing any problems. The autoscope function works and even the auto iris works reasonably well, not clunky as others have reported. I understand that these features are not working well, if at all, in CO8 VII.

MCB,

As I reported earlier, the version of C08 that came with #3 is dated 11/30/06. It was shipped from Optoma in CA around the first week in January. This version must be run at high altitude or in high brightness mode to avoid blue screen issues. I would welcome everyone's report of the dates of their C08 versions. In addition to the reported problems, this version does on occasion forget the settings entered for position, overscan and masking. I find it an annoyance to have to reset these settings or to reset Format 1 or 2. These should have been sensitive to the scan frequencies as are the User 1 ,2 and 3 settings. That would have made a lot more sense and provided uniformity of control operation.

An additional concern I'm having with Optoma is how long its taking them to finalize C08. My skeptical side is thinking they will delay it until AFTER the first batch (C05 and earlier) is out of the 1 year full warranty. Then we'll be paying shipping to get C08, all because we didn't get upgradeable firmware in our original purchase - which was promised when we bought the HD81.

I think I'll need the luck. I have not had too much luck so far, 3 for 3 bad units.
Friday Optoma was supposed to e-mail me UPS return tickets. I did not receive them. I called Optoma Monday and talked to the same person, and he said there was a mix-up but he would e-mail them Monday for sure. Again he did not follow through. Right now I still have about $13,000. on my Visa, that I would like to get off!
What I would really like is my money back, but I don't think that will ever happen.

Thanks for the help

Tony

Well, after a few more phone calls, I finally got to download a couple of RMA packing slips. I will ending back the two bad units today.
They also said they haven't gotten around to testing another new unit to send to me. They want to make sure the next one they send me is problem-free. LOL

Tony

MCB,
As I reported earlier, the version of C08 that came with #3 is dated 11/30/06. This version must be run at high altitude or in high brightness mode to avoid blue screen issues. I would welcome everyone's report of the dates of their C08 versions.

Art,

I had C06 and C08 11/30/06 on my first HD81 and never had the blue screen/shut
down problem. My second Hd81 with C08 1/2/07 has the blue screen issue, inop.
Auto235, inop. programmable trigger and Film Mode 48Hz is grayed out sometimes.

We have seen at least one owner who has the blue screen/shutdown issue with
C06, so I'm not convinced this is a C08 issue. The good news is that my second
HD81 does not have the burning smell anymore, the blue screen problems are rare and the Film Mode 48Hz works well when it's not grayed out, plus all HDMI sources except my DirecTV HR20 use DVI-Video.

Is contrast ratio really as disappointing as stated several times in the new Widescreen Review article by Greg Rogers?

Is contrast ratio really as disappointing as stated several times in the new Widescreen Review article by Greg Rogers?

When there is a mix of bright and dark in a scene, contrast is excellent. When a
scene is all dark, the blacks look gray. It is important to have a room that is as
dark as possible, but even then, the latter example is obvious.

Is contrast ratio really as disappointing as stated several times in the new Widescreen Review article by Greg Rogers?

I've done CR tests on many projectors with the same equipment and enviorment. All across the board the findings have pretty much matched later findings by other reviews, for each projector. This is one of the rare times findings were way different. I can't really tell you why there's a huge difference. Maybe a longshot the two machines were very different.
I got 2880.1 with max iris stop with the HD81, not that great but decent. I got 8xxx.1 using the auto iris. People tend not to like the auto iris but help is on the way to make it better. Can't say much more though. Probably said too much.
:)

When there is a mix of bright and dark in a scene, contrast is excellent. When a scene is all dark, the blacks look gray. It is important to have a room that is as dark as possible, but even then, the latter example is obvious.
I'm curious if the issue is with the source, rather than the projector. For example, on a quality DVD transfer like Batman Begins, I've found CR to be good (yes in a totally dark room). But when I saw a poor transfer of a dark movie ("Last of the Mohicans"), I found CR to be terrible. Scenes were so lacking in detail that they were nearly unwatchable. I have a hard time faulting the projector when I know how good it can look with a quality transfer.

I'm curious if the issue is with the source, rather than the projector. For example, on a quality DVD transfer like Batman Begins, I've found CR to be good (yes in a totally dark room). But when I saw a poor transfer of a dark movie ("Last of the Mohicans"), I found CR to be terrible. Scenes were so lacking in detail that they were nearly unwatchable. I have a hard time faulting the projector when I know how good it can look with a quality transfer.

This is an interesting question. I will watch Batman Begins again. Do you have U571 on HD DVD? I was unhappy with the submarine interiors. There was detail in the blacks, but the everything looked gray. I've been watching the Star Wars series in HD and the opening star fields never look black enough until a large white space ship enters frame, then things look right.

I remember demoing the HD81 at Optoma and commenting on a dark scene in the
Phantom of the Opera HD DVD that I felt looked gray instead of black. I was told
by my Optoma host that on my smaller screen with iris reduced, blacks would look
better. They still look gray even at 11 or 14. I don't believe an auto iris will help
unless there is other processing such as variable gamma and bulb brightness.
Sony Pearl has the best auto iris circuit, but still does some white compression.

The Sharp 20K has great blacks and the HD81 does not seem to have the lumens
advantage that was once thought--at least an HD81 calibrated for D65.

This is an interesting question. I will watch Batman Begins again. Do you have U571 on HD DVD? I was unhappy with the submarine interiors. There was detail in the blacks, but the everything looked gray. I've been watching the Star Wars series in HD and the opening star fields never look black enough until a large white space ship enters frame, then things look right.

Don't get mad at me, but I'm BluRay. :D That said, I thought the dark scenes on Corpse Bride (available on both HD-DVD & BluRay) were good. Good is not great and great is not excellent. Therefore good does not mean black is black. Most noticeable is when a black image is projected on the edges of the screen (right next to the black screen frame) - but it does appear as a very dark gray. Check out the Corpse Bride and get back to me, but I get the feeling my good is equal to your unhappy.

The Sharp 20K has great blacks and the HD81 does not seem to have the lumens advantage that was once thought--at least an HD81 calibrated for D65. :(
I never thought I'd say this, but the HD81 (according to reports) drops off so much in light output after calibration that I'd say this unit should not be calibrated. This is quite frustrating to me because of Optoma's marketing. Their web site still says "Bright 1400 lumens and 10000:1 contrast ratio delivers subtle details and vibrant images".

As my father-n-law would say "Did they test for CR by putting on a complete white field, and then for blacks by unplugging it?"

I never thought I'd say this, but the HD81 (according to reports) drops off so much in light output after calibration that I'd say this unit should not be calibrated. This is quite frustrating to me because of Optoma's marketing. Their web site still says "Bright 1400 lumens and 10000:1 contrast ratio delivers subtle details and vibrant images".


Well, that's the decision I've taken, I blew $400 on an ISF calibration which reduced
lumens substantially. Plus I exchanged that HD81 due to a processor problem and
the ISF numbers don't transfer to the second projector accurately--not even close
(which could be due to bulb differences in part).

As far as the claim of 1400 lumens and 10K CR, well, given a choice between a
Greg Rogers review and a marketing department brochure.......

Well, that's the decision I've taken, I blew $400 on an ISF calibration which reduced
lumens substantially. Plus I exchanged that HD81 due to a processor problem and
the ISF numbers don't transfer to the second projector accurately--not even close
(which could be due to bulb differences in part).

As far as the claim of 1400 lumens and 10K CR, well, given a choice between a
Greg Rogers review and a marketing department brochure.......

Jeff,

Although I have no intention to calibrate my HD81 as I am extremely happy with the image that I am getting I would like to experience what you are seeing with the calibration. I am aware that by simply inputting your settings I will not truely get a D65 calibration but it might be close enough to give me some idea what the effect is.

Would you be willing to share your calibration seetings?

Thanks

Joe

Jeff,
Would you be willing to share your calibration seetings?

Thanks

Joe

Joe,

If the settings aren't working on HD81 #2 in the same room, same screen, it's a long shot for your setup. When my wife and I watched Phantom of the Opera(her fave HD DVD) right after calibration, we both missed the saturation and brightness of my previous settings, which are close to Kevin Anderson's. Fleshtones were accurate, but imagery was less rich. There is a thread on this forum titled, "In Praise of Color Management Systems". There are screen shots of a Sharp 20K uncalibrated and calibrated. The uncalibrated shots are more saturated and warm. This is more like what my HD81 looks like currently.

Here are the ISF settings for HDMI:

contrast 0
bright 3
gamma 0
image TV
iris 5
contrast R 0
G -18
B -23
bright R -1
G -2
B -5

Here are the settings that I am using for HDMI(from Kevin Anderson) :

contrast 3
bright 0-3
gamma 2
image TV
iris 9
contrast R 4
G -11
B -9
bright R 0
G -1
B 0

Your mileage may vary.

I was thinking, as I read about AVS doing not one, but two reviews of the upcoming JVC RS-1, how deafening the silence has been from AVS staff on this HD81 thread. The long promised HD81 review never materialized from Jason. I happen to know that his first review unit had a problem(what are the chances?), but I'm curious as to why we never saw a review in all this time.

Could it be that Jason did do some measurements and saw the under 2000:1 CR and much less lumens at D65 than expected and decided not to publish the numbers? Or, more likely, Jason has been too busy, as we haven't seen other
reviews from him either since November.

The AVS sales staff contributes to most Pearl and RS-1 threads. Here we have a product in the HD81 that clearly has ongoing reliability and operational issues, no way to upgrade firmware except sending units back to the manufacturer and specs that fall far short of those published and there has been no obvious support by AVS for its customers.

Optoma is clearly a big advertiser on the AVS Forum, so I can see why AVS staff would steer clear from this and other Optoma threads that bring up product issues. I'm just feeling a bit left out in the cold by AVS. If it turns out that the JVC RS-1 is problematic, I wonder if the AVS staff will be missing in action as well?

I can understand your frustration, Jeff, but what can you really expect AVS to do? Jump out and say "Dont buy the HD81, its a piece of crap?"

I havent seen a single negative comment made about an AVS person on any product. Not that I can remember, anyways. Its clear to me that if AVS isnt endorsing, defending, or recommending a product line that they offer its because they believe in other products much more.

I think AVS' lack of participation on the Optoma HD81 thread speaks volumes.

Jeff - I've found Jason to be very helpful when you ask him off the forums for his opinions.
In fact, if you read his new RS1 review, he's not trying to hide his current projector recommendation :)

I think the HD81 thread speaks for it self.

If one still decides to buy a HD81 from AVS they offer a return period, so I cant see how they could be more helpful?

I think one problem is that the HD-81 is not there, in terms of price/performance...

I think one problem is that the HD-81 is not there, in terms of price/performance...

I would disagree with that statement but that topic has been fully debated about 50 pages or so ago.

Joe

I would disagree with that statement but that topic has been fully debated about 50 pages or so ago.

Joe

I just thought after reading the comparison reviews against the Pearl in this thread - the HD81 did not really stand out in the competition...and the price differential was huge. But these are all opinions and preferences among individuals and add to that the many variables in the comparison. I guess to each his own.

I think AVS' lack of participation on the Optoma HD81 thread speaks volumes.

Yes, that was my point, actually. By the way, I think Jason and Alan are class acts
and AVS is a great place to buy from with a fantastic return policy. It would be
great if they could be a line of communication between customers and Optoma,
and I don't know what dialog they have with Optoma behind the scenes.

Regarding pricing, the landscape changed when Sony came out with the Pearl
and now the JVC RS-1. Optoma was late delivering the HD81 and has since
reduced the price by $1000 since I purchased. If Optoma delivered on all of
their claims, the HD81 would still be a great value. The outboard processor
is excellent, the projector is gorgeous until it has to deal with dark scenes.

The RS-1 has convergence errors and a zoom lens that changes the CR and
brightness considerably from one end to the other, and it did not meet the
lumens spec, although CR is breathtaking. The advantage gap that DLP held
in sharpness has been reduced substantially by the RS-1, but DLP is still king.

As far as DLP competitors, BenQ is priced similarly, Sharp 20K is closer than
one would expect, but all DLP projector manufacturers will have to respond
to the JVC RS-1 price/performance breakthrough.

As I said previously, my third HD81, #3, looked great out of the box. The settings for User1 provided color temperature readings in the high 6K's at 50 IRE using my trusty Elite DV-09 DVD player. I have always used it and Avia disk as the reference source for setting up many systems. The reason one gets a softer image from the HD81 after adjusting it for 6500K from 20 IRE to 80 IRE is that at the factory settings one runs out of Blue at the high end and red at the other end, (or is it the other way around) Sorry, it has been several months since I checked it. The ISF setup is just another step in satisfying the quantafrenia bug that afflicts many. The idea that someone can come in and make your set look "perfect" or better is very appealing. Unfortunately, while it may satisfy some inner need, the whole thing is based on faulty premises, i.e. that the ISF technician's reference materials are accurately calibrated and that the display device will "look better" to human eyes with settings that are different from what the manufacturer intended. Afte years of setting these things up, I find that way too many owners are less than happy after I set their sets to the "standard" of 6500K. Sony sets for instance are loved by the public. They have out of the box color temp values as high as 9K. I believe that this HD81 is not unlike other high end sets whose designers stray from the established colorimetry standards to provide a pleasing viewing experience. My #3 unit provides an extremely pleasing viewing experience. It did so from the very beginning. So, in spite of the fact that I have to leave the projector set on High Brightness all the time and that in order to mask the noise emminating from the cooling fan and color wheel, I am creating nail pops throughout my house due to the outrageous levels at which I must play the audio, I enjoy watching my HD81 and I am in fact proud that I took a quantum leap forward in terms of picture quality by buying this projector. Would I do it again today, probably not because I would never want to repeat the hours spent trying to get a unit that worked well.

Yes, that was my point, actually. By the way, I think Jason and Alan are class acts
and AVS is a great place to buy from with a fantastic return policy. It would be
great if they could be a line of communication between customers and Optoma,
and I don't know what dialog they have with Optoma behind the scenes.

Regarding pricing, the landscape changed when Sony came out with the Pearl
and now the JVC RS-1. Optoma was late delivering the HD81 and has since
reduced the price by $1000 since I purchased. If Optoma delivered on all of
their claims, the HD81 would still be a great value. The outboard processor
is excellent, the projector is gorgeous until it has to deal with dark scenes.

The RS-1 has convergence errors and a zoom lens that changes the CR and
brightness considerably from one end to the other, and it did not meet the
lumens spec, although CR is breathtaking. The advantage gap that DLP held
in sharpness has been reduced substantially by the RS-1, but DLP is still king.

As far as DLP competitors, BenQ is priced similarly, Sharp 20K is closer than
one would expect, but all DLP projector manufacturers will have to respond
to the JVC RS-1 price/performance breakthrough.


Depending on which review you read the RS1/HD1 did meet its lumen spec, and even exceeded it a bit. Cine4home's new review based their findings on 3 different production units and came out with 720 lumens at D65 at min throw with 12000:1 on/off CR as well. :) Of course you can sacrifice some lumens for even more CR though if you wish.

Depending on which review you read the RS1/HD1 did meet its lumen spec, and even exceeded it a bit. Cine4home's new review based their findings on 3 different production units and came out with 720 lumens at D65 at min throw with 12000:1 on/off CR as well. :) Of course you can sacrifice some lumens for even more CR though if you wish.

Toe,

Thanks for the correction. I was using Jason's numbers. It will be interesting to
see what Greg Rogers comes up with, but I certainly think Cine4home's numbers
are valid, especially since they tested multiple units. Clearly, JVC does not let the
marketing department determine their specs, that is refreshing.

Toe,

Thanks for the correction. I was using Jason's numbers. It will be interesting to
see what Greg Rogers comes up with, but I certainly think Cine4home's numbers
are valid, especially since they tested multiple units. Clearly, JVC does not let the
marketing department determine their specs, that is refreshing.

Refreshing indeed :) I look forward to Greg's review as well, to see what kind of numbers he comes up with, among his other results.

Refreshing indeed :) I look forward to Greg's review as well, to see what kind of numbers he comes up with, among his other results.
Cine4Home (who is a reviewer) stated "lumen ratings are not much lower than the manufacturers specs" over in the Stereophile Ultimate AV HD-1 sneek peek thread.

Hey guys,

I just purchased the HD81 and installed it in a 20' x 20' room. Screen size is 135". Sharpness is great, but colors are a bit off. Does anyone have ballpark figures on the calibration, using it only for HD-DVD or Blue Ray . Maybe someone can write back what he got to compare numbers. ISF and Kevin Anderson settings are not quite the same. Which one do you think shows a better pic?

Thanks in advance.

Cine4Home (who is a reviewer) stated "lumen ratings are not much lower than the manufacturers specs" over in the Stereophile Ultimate AV HD-1 sneek peek thread.


What he should have said is that they actually exceed the specs, if at minimum throw which is what they do according to Ekkehart's (cine4home) review that came out a few days ago. :)

. So, in spite of the fact that I have to leave the projector set on High Brightness all the time ....... .

Art, do you in fact mean to say that you have your HD81 set to the High Altitude setting, not High Brightness? Or do you have it set to both? For my blue screen issue I have to use HA to cure it but I don't run the brighter lamp setting.

ISF and Kevin Anderson settings are not quite the same. Which one do you think shows a better pic?
Thanks in advance.

On my second HD81, Kevin Anderson's settings still look good to me, although for
HDMI he had tint at -6, I have gone back to 0 on this HD81. My ISF settings posted
above, came from my first HD81 and now look plus yellow/green. The out of the box
settings also look cooler than Kevin Anderson's settings, which look warmer on
both of my HD81's. So his settings transferred(except tint), but my ISF settings
did not. YMMV.

Jeff,

So far we should stick with Kevin Anderson's settings, minus the tint setting which should be left at 0. Is this correct ...?

Jeff,

So far we should stick with Kevin Anderson's settings, minus the tint setting which should be left at 0. Is this correct ...?

greekviking,

This is what is working for me. My official ISF calibration numbers didn't transfer to
my second HD81 and my wife and I didn't like the desaturated, less rich look on
the original ISF calibrated projector. The out of the box settings from Optoma aren't bad, but I prefer the warmer look that I get with Kevin's settings. Tint
can be very source dependent. Color bars and a blue gel held over your eyes
to match the bars is the best way to set tint--but it can change from source to
source.

This is a very subjective thing and there are differences in projectors, bulbs, screens, rooms. The best thing to do is leave the out of the box settings in User 1 and load Kevin's settings in User 2 or 3. Then just flip back and forth and see what you prefer.

You can always have an ISF tech calibrate your HD81 if you don't like what you're
seeing, but D65 calibration isn't always suited to everyone's taste and you will lose lumens.

If you have a unit with C08, I founfd the out of the box User 1 settings outstanding for all inputs. What specifically is wrong with your color reproduction? Color Temp, Hue, Saturation or Gray Scale tracking. The variability in these machines is a matter of record. The ISF settings from one machine are not transferrable regardless of what some people believe on here. If you measure the reflected light off the screen rather than the direct light from the projector, the surface finish of your screen will have a big influence on the settings. I can give you my numbers for color temp but that will have very little meaning for you. I would get an AVIA or VE disk and set the HD 81 accordingly. If it still dissappoints, you have other issues. I would use the User 1 out of the box settings. If you find whites have a tint to them adjust the color temp setting accordingly untile the whites look great. The blacks look better when they are a little more blue than green. Sometimes you have to rely on your eyes. One thing is certain, whilesomeone else's settings might appeal to you, it might just as easily provide an unrealistic colr pallette that makes you start blaming the projector. Color temperature errors and hue and saturation issues can be fixed by you if you know what you are doing. You do not need the ISF guy. In fact, I prefer to do it myself....that way when it looks lousy after 6 hours of effort, I do not have to pile financial loss on top ofall te other reasons I have for doubting this projector's ability to reproduce "accurate" color.

Art, do you in fact mean to say that you have your HD81 set to the High Altitude setting, not High Brightness? Or do you have it set to both? For my blue screen issue I have to use HA to cure it but I don't run the brighter lamp setting.

I have mine set on High Brightness and normal altitude. This provides lower noise than using the high altitude setting and lower bulb setting. My PQ is outstanding. I have Kevin's settings in User 3 and my own settings arrived at with my colorimeter and #3. The best performance in terms of pleasing PQ is achieved by watching User 1, the out of the box Optoma settings. Next I prefer Kevin's settings in Use 3. My own settings in User #2 are the most accurate if one is to believe the equipment. It took a lot of fiddling with contrast settings in order t achieve a +/- 400 degree K tolerance between 30 IRE and 80 IRE. Way too much. I guess the bulb is just way too blue. You really have to cut the contrast way down on blue to get even close.
My wife prefers User #1 settings, Optona's, and that is what we watch when enjoying the input devices, HDMI=2, LG LST-3410A's, an 1, LG LST-4200A; YprPb = 1, Motorola HDD200 DCII HD decoder, and 1 Pioneer Elite DV-09 DVD player (480i through component. Through the S input I watch the material coming from 8 SVHS VCR,s, a Motorola 922 C Band receiver, and various other pieces including a Pioneer 700 Laser disk/DVD/CD player. There is a Dell GEN5 connected to the VGA port on the front but unfortunately that only allows you to input lower resolution signals not 1080i and 1080p. BAD DECISION OPTOMA!!!!!!! The coimposite inputs I do not use except when someone has a piece they want to connect with nothing else bot composite video.

BTW, has anyone noticed on the warranty card it voids the warranty if you use the HD81 for more than 8 hours at a time. It also requires an 8 hour rest period in between usage periods according to the warranty card. I CANT BELIEVE ANYONE WOULD WRITE SOMETHING SO PATHETIC INTO A WARRANTY STATEMENT. The lawyers must have been responding to something the enginees told them concerning long term operation. Maybe all the reports of burning smell have some meaning. On the weekends when my wife and I may stay up for half a day or more catching up on the recorded programs, I definitely use it for more than 8 hours at a time. My God what in the hell is going on in the industry. Now we are told how long the unit will last before it implodes? Hey all you wise guys with connections to Optoma. How about finding out why they included such a statement in the warranty.

BTW, has anyone noticed on the warranty card it voids the warranty if you use the HD81 for more than 8 hours at a time. It also requires an 8 hour rest period in between usage periods according to the warranty card. I CANT BELIEVE ANYONE WOULD WRITE SOMETHING SO PATHETIC INTO A WARRANTY STATEMENT. The lawyers must have been responding to something the enginees told them concerning long term operation. Maybe all the reports of burning smell have some meaning. On the weekends when my wife and I may stay up for half a day or more catching up on the recorded programs, I definitely use it for more than 8 hours at a time. My God what in the hell is going on in the industry. Now we are told how long the unit will last before it implodes? Hey all you wise guys with connections to Optoma. How about finding out why they included such a statement in the warranty.

Well I guess that voids my warranty right there. This has to be a joke on Optoma's part. Well yes, let me see .... We at Optoma have not only failed to bring to market a product able to perform to published specifications but it is also an unreliable product. Therefore, we will cover ourselves by creating a loophole to free ourselves from any obligation to the purchaser by including an escape clause in our otherwise generous warranty. Our lawyer's inform us that barely anyone reads the warranty fine print, so we'll be fine.

Well I guess that voids my warranty right there. This has to be a joke on Optoma's part. Well yes, let me see .... We at Optoma have not only failed to bring to market a product able to perform to published specifications but it is also an unreliable product. Therefore, we will cover ourselves by creating a loophole to free ourselves from any obligation to the purchaser by including an escape clause in our otherwise generous warranty. Our lawyer's inform us that barely anyone reads the warranty fine print, so we'll be fine.
Actually I read the fine print and follow it meticulously. Each Sunday this past NFL season me and my buddies would watch the 1pm NFL game, then the 4:15 NFL game and then right into the 8pm NFL game. At 8:59pm I shut off the projector and told all the guys who came over for the game to get out and go home and that I'll TIVO the rest of the game. Then they can all come over at 5am Monday morning before work and we'd watch the rest of the game.

Doesn't EVERYONE watch TV like this?

Has anyone tried an LG BH100 into the VXD? If so, did the 1080p work?

For those with an HD DVR that get HD Net, they send ten minutes worth of HD test patterns
a few times per month. I now have HD color bars, cross hatch, and resolution test patterns.

The resolution chart has a couple of sentences where each line gets smaller in font size and says, "If you can read the number that relates to the text line that you cannot read is a rough estimate of your display resolution. If you can read these last few lines your display is better than mine". The latter sentence gets VERY small, but is still readable from my viewing position.

The next HD Net test pattern broadcasts are:

March 11, 18 and 25 at 5:50am ET/2:50am PT

Jeff,

The HD Net test pattern broadcasts remind me of the Doby FM noise reduction 400 Hz tones that allowed the listener with the appropriate deemphasis network and a Dolby B NR unit to set the level of the signal going into the Dolby NR unit. That was the '70's, the golden age of Hifi AFAIC.

Jeff,
That was the '70's, the golden age of Hifi AFAIC.

Art,

I'd certainly agree with you about the '70's being the golden age of Hifi, I mean that's when I was enjoying 8 track cartridges! :D

Jeff,

I definitely agree with you that the HD81, if it lived up to its specs, is very worth considering. Ive been tempted to buy it several times, but before I EVER buy an Optoma product they are going to have to make it right with you guys.

It is a good sign that they are shipping replacement PJs to you guys BUT it would be much better if we started getting reports from you all that the NEXT PJ you get was QCed properly and that most of your issues were resolved and that you were finally happy.

They need to hire some more QC folks and spend some time with ANY replacement PJs that they send. Its a pain in the ass for me to have to keep taking down and putting up PJs and as interesting as the HD81 or its newer brother sounds the unhappy reports from owners on this thread scares me.

Step up and get these next round of replacement projectors properly and substantially QCed Optoma. Its not too late ... yet.

Step up and get these next round of replacement projectors properly and substantially QCed Optoma. Its not too late ... yet.

youre kidding me right? :rolleyes: :eek:

Art,

I'd certainly agree with you about the '70's being the golden age of Hifi, I mean that's when I was enjoying 8 track cartridges! :D

Ever heard of 4 track? I had a 4 track under dash player. And remember those sliding trays you could mount your player to so that you could remove it so it would not be stolen?

Thanks for the quick trip down memory lane.

Joe

For a group of self proclaimed videophiles, we certainly do not seem to be aiming very high as far as audio is concerned discussing 8 tracks and ...4 tracks? (I assume you are referring to a cassette player jmorris). I want to go on record that I still use a Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck and and a Teac 6010 GSL R to R deck. Sure, I only use them for playback nowdays but there was a time when they ruled!!!! BTW, because of the reported limited audio outputs of the LG BH100, I've decided to wait until the next generation combo HD DVD/BluRay player.

youre kidding me right?

Well, I dont mean Im buying one now. I mean on the "forever" part. 8)

For those with an HD DVR that get HD Net, they send ten minutes worth of HD test patterns
a few times per month. I now have HD color bars, cross hatch, and resolution test patterns.

The resolution chart has a couple of sentences where each line gets smaller in font size and says, "If you can read the number that relates to the text line that you cannot read is a rough estimate of your display resolution. If you can read these last few lines your display is better than mine". The latter sentence gets VERY small, but is still readable from my viewing position.

The next HD Net test pattern broadcasts are:

March 11, 18 and 25 at 5:50am ET/2:50am PT


Jeff what did the ISF guy use to tune up your HDTV signal? Most Optoma projectors show red/contrast as the limiting color so green and blue get tuned up higher to reach the white target which is a good thing. Did you notice the gentlemen doing somthing like that? You lost the tunings with the new machine are you getting a retake for a low or zero come back fee? You should ask about it.

Jeff what did the ISF guy use to tune up your HDTV signal? Most Optoma projectors show red/contrast as the limiting color so green and blue get tuned up higher to reach the white target which is a good thing. Did you notice the gentlemen doing somthing like that? You lost the tunings with the new machine are you getting a retake for a low or zero come back fee? You should ask about it.

Tom,

The ISF tech used Color Facts 6, I believe. He offered to reduce the price by $100,
I think. I am opting to not have this 2nd HD81 ISF'ed for two reasons, first, my
wife and I prefer out of the box or Kevin Anderson's settings and second, I'm afraid I do not have enough confidence in the long term reliability of any HD81
to spend more money on another ISF calibration.

As you know, UHP bulbs are deficient in the red spectrum. In order to obtain D65
with the HD81, my ISF tech had to reduce blue and green substantially(-23, -18),
just as Kevin Anderson did(-9, -11), and Kevin boosted red contrast to +4, so what you are saying is the opposite of the experience I've had as far as blue
and green contrast.

The need to reduce blue and green substantially due to a red gain deficiency has
a big impact on lumens output. What I don't understand is why my ISF settings
look terrible on my second HD81, yet Kevin's settings still look good, other than
returning tint back to 0 from -6 for HDMI.

For a group of self proclaimed videophiles, we certainly do not seem to be aiming very high as far as audio is concerned discussing 8 tracks and ...4 tracks? (I assume you are referring to a cassette player jmorris). I want to go on record that I still use a Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck and and a Teac 6010 GSL R to R deck. Sure, I only use them for playback nowdays but there was a time when they ruled!!!! BTW, because of the reported limited audio outputs of the LG BH100, I've decided to wait until the next generation combo HD DVD/BluRay player.

OT: Nope. I really mean 4 track. It was the same size of the 8 track but had 4 tracks. It only had 2 channels and the tension wheel that you find in the 8 tracks was actually supplied by the machine in the 4 track machines. It poped up through the bottom of the cartridge.

I also have a Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck but my RtoR is an Akai 4 track!! I hate to say it but when all of my vinyl got destroyed in a basement flood I sold my last turntable. So I am now vinyl-less. (I would rather still have vinyl. Sounds way better than molded plastic.)

Joe

For a group of self proclaimed videophiles, we certainly do not seem to be aiming very high as far as audio is concerned discussing 8 tracks

Hey, to a high school kid, there was nothing cooler than 8 track in the car! Besides, with all of the cross talk, I could listen to more than one song at the same time!!

Regarding HD/BD combo players, by mid-summer, you'll be able to buy a separate
HD DVD player and BD player for under $1K vs. a combo that is compromised.
As much as it pains me to say this, I don't believe the long term horizon for HD DVD
is very bright and would certainly not buy a second gen. player at this point.

[QUOTE=Jeff Regan]Hey, to a high school kid, there was nothing cooler than 8 track in the car! Besides, with all of the cross talk, I could listen to more than one song at the same time!!

[QUOTE]

Crosstalk!?! Didn't you C-A-L-I-B-R-A-T-E your player?? (I said that just for Art's benefit. LOL. Not I am ducking and running) :D

Joe

Regarding HD/BD combo players, by mid-summer, you'll be able to buy a separate
HD DVD player and BD player for under $1K vs. a combo that is compromised.
As much as it pains me to say this, I don't believe the long term horizon for HD DVD
is very bright and would certainly not buy a second gen. player at this point.

FWIW, for $199 I purchased the HD-DVD player add-on for the Xbox. It is USB and the drivers are downloaded through Msoft's windows update. It works perfectly as a HD-DVD player.

Sorry all, this must be my OT day. I get one of those per year, right?

Joe

Sorry, I never heard of 4 track endless loop players. Must have been a CA low rider, 18" woofer in your trunk thing...HaHa. I know better, sorry. BTW, looks like time has passed me by. I see that calibrate is now the proper word for what we do. Shows how our language is dynamic. In 1967, when I startd working at the National Bureau of Standards, one of the eminent PHD's took my head off for using "calibrate" the way it is used today.

FWIW, for $199 I purchased the HD-DVD player add-on for the Xbox. It is USB and the drivers are downloaded through Msoft's windows update. It works perfectly as a HD-DVD player.

Sorry all, this must be my OT day. I get one of those per year, right?

Joe

On the topic of this post, but possibly off topic for the thread...

Do you have this add-on HD-DVD player connected to a HTPC? If so could you post the software player you are running, and the basic specs of the PC. PM me if you want.

Thanks

On the topic of this post, but possibly off topic for the thread...

Do you have this add-on HD-DVD player connected to a HTPC? If so could you post the software player you are running, and the basic specs of the PC. PM me if you want.

Thanks

There is a whole AVS forum thread on the topic here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748426&page=1&pp=30

You may want to read the first post and then skip to the last few pages.

I will PM you with my personal htpc details.

Joe

Tom,

The ISF tech used Color Facts 6, I believe. He offered to reduce the price by $100,
I think. I am opting to not have this 2nd HD81 ISF'ed for two reasons, first, my
wife and I prefer out of the box or Kevin Anderson's settings and second, I'm afraid I do not have enough confidence in the long term reliability of any HD81
to spend more money on another ISF calibration.

As you know, UHP bulbs are deficient in the red spectrum. In order to obtain D65
with the HD81, my ISF tech had to reduce blue and green substantially(-23, -18),
just as Kevin Anderson did(-9, -11), and Kevin boosted red contrast to +4, so what you are saying is the opposite of the experience I've had as far as blue
and green contrast.

The need to reduce blue and green substantially due to a red gain deficiency has
a big impact on lumens output. What I don't understand is why my ISF settings
look terrible on my second HD81, yet Kevin's settings still look good, other than
returning tint back to 0 from -6 for HDMI.

CF6 I have that, but wondering what he used to generate an HDTV signal if he charged you for an HDTV tuning? On the red running out, yes right but what the calibrator should do is first increase the red-contrast to the point where it can't register any higher. Usually with Optoma's that's around +20, then the green and blue are moved to form the D65k, usually they get increased a little to draw the red/contrast down so it's meets up.

I don't have the numbers I ended up with when I first tuned up the H81, but the lumens numbers after were still high. 27.50ftc and after 200hrs 27.00ftc. Black level was good also. When I put the sensor back at the screen area I'm pretty sure black level was 0.006. Many don't trust the measurements back at the screen though.

Tom,

When you set the red contrast up to +20, it is almost impossible to get uniform temperature response down to 30 IRE. Also, when the device is driven ( I know that is not what is happening here but whatever the correct terminology is for causing the micro-mirrors to reflect more red light) increases the amount of that background stuff that riggless about and looks like film noise in the solid colors. I reverted back to my user 1 out of the box and preferred it to all my efforts to produce a numerically correct projector. You will recall that I was able to get a temperature within +/-400 degrees from 30 IRE to 80 IRE. I did not like the way it looked even though my numbers were good. I blamed it on my reference device. the CA-1

I'll look around for some papers with numbers saved, 20 is just a number it may have been lower or higher. Bringing the R/C back 1 or 2 numbers from the max point should take care of any dithering. Just guessing but the max pushed D65k white level may have helped the CR reading I got with the IRIS stopped down.

CF6 I have that, but wondering what he used to generate an HDTV signal if he charged you for an HDTV tuning? On the red running out, yes right but what the calibrator should do is first increase the red-contrast to the point where it can't register any higher. Usually with Optoma's that's around +20, then the green and blue are moved to form the D65k, usually they get increased a little to draw the red/contrast down so it's meets up.


Tom,

My ISF tech had an HD DVD with high def. test signals. It wasn't a commercial release, it may have come from Stacey Spears. He promised me he would
get me a copy, never got it. At least I've got a few from HD Net now.

He made it sound like running the red contrast up into plus gain wasn't buying him
anything, but it goes all the way to +50 and I see it adding on this second HD81.
It would have been great to raise red contrast and not lower green and blue contrast, but this did not work for him with my first HD81. He was never able to
get a blue bump out of low IRE. I posted my graph earlier on this thread.

I follow what Tom discusses -- I start by running up red until it stops having an effect on gray scale and then I back it off a click or two. However, with so many "versions" of this projector running around, I'm not surprised to hear of some differences.

After Greg's review of the HD81, I looked closely at field uniformity and mine is much better than what he reports both as to color uniformity and luminance. We did the A/B comparison with the Sony Pearl, and there was no question that the HD81 (at least mine) was much better in this area than the Pearl. The Pearl was distinctly pink and green in the corners, and it clearly showed up in the LOTR I scene where the Fellowship is on the snow field; indeed, this was the very reason I didn't exchange the HD81 for the Pearl. I would, however, agree with his comments about on/off CR vs. intra-scene CR.

As an aside, I picked up a PS3, so I'm enjoying both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. I've had some fun downloading the HD movie trailers on the PS3 web site.

I follow what Tom discusses -- I start by running up red until it stops having an effect on gray scale and then I back it off a click or two. However, with so many "versions" of this projector running around, I'm not surprised to hear of some differences.

After Greg's review of the HD81, I looked closely at field uniformity and mine is much better than what he reports both as to color uniformity and luminance. We did the A/B comparison with the Sony Pearl, and there was so question that the HD81 (at least mine) was much better in this area than the Pearl. The Pearl was distinctly pink and green in the corners, and it clearly showed up in the LOTR I scene where the Fellowship is on the snow field; indeed, this was the very reason I didn't exchange the HD81 for the Pearl. I would, however, agree with his comments about on/off CR vs. intra-scene CR.


Kevin,

My ISF tech said he wasn't seeing any effect in plus values for red contrast, but
my current HD81 does show an effect well up the scale. Different firmware?
Bulb spectrum? Who knows?

I agree about brightness and color uniformity, I have watched The World's Fastest
Indian and my own DVD that I shot at Bonneville countless times. I had a problem
with white shading in my camera when I was on the lens extender that was very
obvious on the salt flat expanses--but the HD81 is not contributing to this in uneven luminance or color purity. I did watch my DVD on a Pearl and saw some
color uniformity issues at the corners.

It is now being reported that the JVC RS-1 may have some uneven luminance at
the corners/edges. While the JVC is certainly reported to do great blacks, the
brighter corners would be a problem when watching letterboxed material. The
Sharp 20K has been reported as having even lower black levels than the JVC,
with no brightness or color uniformity issues. The full field blacks of the HD81
are really gray, much like my 2005 era Sharp 32" LCD display, but an EVEN gray!

Wing was saying the website had a true 1080p download, a racing game I think. Not many if any available 1080p user games yet. So could you see the upgrade of a 1080p clip from the website vs the 1080i from the HDA1?

Frankly Jeff,

A blue bump on low IRE is very desireable. Our eyes tend to see reproduced darkness as green so a little extra blue can really be pleasing. I would go so far as to say that if you input some extra blue, you will be quite happy with the results. If it's good enough for SONY....

I have a question regarding connection of an HD DVD/Bluray player. It seems that if one is to enjoy the best audio possible, one must connect via the 6 channels of analog output of these players. While this is straightforward in theory, practically it represents a troublesome implementation issue for those of us using a pre/pro that does not have 6 channels of analog input. Coming from an audio background, I have built my system around a 2 channel ADCOM preamp and amplifier so that I can enjoy the original stereo sound of various sources without muddying up the sound with digital conversion. For listening to multi channel (5.1 DTS and DD) program material, I have placed a SONY Pre/Pro in the external processor loop of the Adcom preamp. That loop contains both a Sony Pre/Pro and a DTS Millenium decoder in series in that order. When a 5.1 program come into the Sony it is decoded and the LF and RF channels are sent via the DTS decoder which is on Bypass to the Adcom preamp's External processor loop input. The LR and RR channels also pass through the DTS decoder on bypass to the amp for the LR and RR channels. The Center and subwoofer channels follow a similar path ending at their respective amplifiers. When I want to listen to DTS, the DTS decoder automatically senses the DTS encoded bitstream and switches itself off bypass to the input signals from the DVD player. The output of the DTS decoder goes to the external processor loop input as I mentioned previously. Just to be complete...when I want to route material coming into the Adcom preamp to the Sony, I use a 48kHz A to D converter.

Now for the problem. How do I feed the 6 channels of analog audio into the mix? Sure, I could put a 6 channel 2 in 1 out switcher in series with the Sony and Millenium DTS decoder but that is messy. How have you guys done it?

Art,

I would think about changing the 2 components that you have in your process loop for a single component that can handle not only DTS but all of the Dolby variations too. In addition you can then use digital cables, either glass or coax, to connect all of the multi-channel sources to the processor.

Just my thoughts...

Joe

Joe,

I understand that the digital ouput via coax be it optical or copper is only 2 channel for HD DVD material. The SPDIF connector can not handle the lossless Dolby True HD. I've looked at several HD machines and this seems to be the case universally. While the SPDIF would carry 5.1 DD or DTS it will not give you what you pay for unless all you want to listen to is the 5.1 DD and DTS. I am trying to upgrade. My two decoders work well for what they do and I do not like to upgrade unless I am going to get a major improvement. Here replacement with 1 unit would not benefit me. If I wish to use optical or coax, DTS or Dolby I can and do with my existing system. I need to get 6 analog channels in order to enjoy losslees audio from the HD DVD units. Perhaps I am not being clear. Please tell me if that is the case.

I am confused on a number of fronts. And more than likely I am going to learn something here. That is usually the case ;)



My two decoders work well for what they do and I do not like to upgrade unless I am going to get a major improvement. Here replacement with 1 unit would not benefit me. If I wish to use optical or coax, DTS or Dolby I can and do with my existing system.

I totally agree with you on the first point. I too like to only upgrade when there is going to be a dramatic improvement.

On the second point, I had not gathered from your previous post that the processors in your loop had digital input capabilities. My poor assumption.



I understand that the digital ouput via coax be it optical or copper is only 2 channel for HD DVD material.



I can play a 5.1 HD DVD through glass and my Denon receiver "sees" the encoding and outputs 5.1. My experience says that this is not 2 channel. I may not understand the point you were making.



I need to get 6 analog channels in order to enjoy losslees audio from the HD DVD units.



Are you talking about Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio content?

Joe

You can get lossless audio from the HDMI output which is what I use for both the HD-DVD and PS3 (by the way, the uncompressed PCM tracks on some Blu-ray disks are awesome). Of course, you need a device that will accept HDMI audio.

Joe,

I understand that the digital ouput via coax be it optical or copper is only 2 channel for HD DVD material. The SPDIF connector can not handle the lossless Dolby True HD. I've looked at several HD machines and this seems to be the case universally. While the SPDIF would carry 5.1 DD or DTS it will not give you what you pay for unless all you want to listen to is the 5.1 DD and DTS. I am trying to upgrade. My two decoders work well for what they do and I do not like to upgrade unless I am going to get a major improvement. Here replacement with 1 unit would not benefit me. If I wish to use optical or coax, DTS or Dolby I can and do with my existing system. I need to get 6 analog channels in order to enjoy losslees audio from the HD DVD units. Perhaps I am not being clear. Please tell me if that is the case.

Art, I understand the desire not to upgrade unless significant improvements can be realized and I found myself at the same impass a few years ago. I was implimenting a HTPC sound card that in addition the SP/DIF output it had 6 channels analog audio (WMVHD 6 channel sound).

You asked how others (I) did it; Front ending my venerable Yamaha RXV2090 was an external Yamaha DSP1 DD decoder but it did not have analog inputs so...

I found a Panasonic SH-AC500 which has 6 descrete channels in, I used this combo until I wanted to move up to 7.1 audio for the new DD-EX and DTS-ES so my next move was to a Denon 3805 that has 6 channel analog in (EXT In).

Not as 'high end' as your separates but it works... maybe such an outboard unit could interface your HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player to your current set up? I have seen the SH-AC500's for around the $100 mark on eBay.

Al,

That is hilarious. I too had a DSP1 and eventually upgraded to a Denon 3805!

Joe

I should mention that if you are going to upgrade to a device that accepts HDMI audio, make sure that it also passes 1080p video back to the HD81 -- some only pass 1080i video.

OK guys thanks for the input.
Joe, I want to be able to enjoy the Dolby True HD so that is why I am seeking an analog solution. I am glad to learn that most of the HD DVD players will output a DD or DTS substream so that you will get some sound albeit not the best. The Sony EP9ES DD decoder/Pre/Pro only has SPDIF and optical inputs. That is why I use an external DtoA converter.

Al, My beloved Pioneer Elte SP99D Pre/Pro DD Decoder has both analog and digital inputs. Unfortunately, the analog inputs consist of 5 channels rather than 6 (the rear channel input is mono). Your idea of the SA500 has merit but buying a third Pre/Pro would wrangle my conscience.

Kevin I like your idea of buying a device with the proper HDMI input. The reason for purchasing it would be to enjoy the 7.1 material. Also, I can't seem to find a way to connect the 6 analog channels and provide some level control in my current setup.

Looks like for the present when I decide to purchase an HD DVD or BluRay player, I will use the 5.1 optical or SPDIF outputs like you Joe. When I can find an outboard device, a Pre/Pro with an HDMI 1080P input/output capability, I will buy it. I need a separate device because i use very large amps to power my VMPS STIII's and I would hate to replace the amps I have with a low powered multi channel receiver. Any ideas who makes such a device?

.....As an aside, I picked up a PS3, so I'm enjoying both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. I've had some fun downloading the HD movie trailers on the PS3 web site.


Kevin,

Have you seen the problem where the Optoma does not see the PS3? I would have to reboot the PS3 for the Optoma to recognize it.

It happens about 50% of the time. One solution is to swith the Optoma's video to the PS3 first, then turn on the PS3.

Thanks,

Chuong

I need a separate device because i use very large amps to power my VMPS STIII's and I would hate to replace the amps I have with a low powered multi channel receiver. Any ideas who makes such a device?

The Denon, at lease the 3805 has pre-outs as well as high powered outs. You could use the pre-outs to your mains. I used to do that when I had a mixed audio and video system. I would run the L & R pre-outs to my Van Alstine equipment and the rest of the speakers would be run from the high power outputs of the receiver. This type of setup may may serve your purpose.

Joe

I need a separate device because i use very large amps to power my VMPS STIII's and I would hate to replace the amps I have with a low powered multi channel receiver. Any ideas who makes such a device?

Art, I am not even in the same audio universe you are........but...... I have read several folks in the Pioneer Elite 84TXsi forum that are using the 84 as a pre/pro with external amplification. The 84 has just had a firmware update to take care of a reported low LFE issue over PCM, but it should have all the bells and whistles you are looking for if you let your current AMPs do the "heavy lifting!"

Thanks Stevo, I will look at it. I just spent half a day of my life looking at HD DVD and BluRay players. What a compatibility mess. I spent years traveling overseas to participate in standardization committees. My God were the engineers asleep or is it just that the technolgyis movingg too fast. No wonder people like myself fear and detest the upgrade adventure. It used to be something to look forward to and the equipment worked when you got it home. Now it is a crap shoot. I am going to wait. The players are still evolving too fast. We nee some standardization akin to the effort that brought us moving magnet cartridges, the RIAA curve and L&R stereo channels. Digital is a mess. Last night the wind was blowing at 30mph. Neither my rooftop antenna nor Comcast's could receive the HD version of Fox's programming. I wound up watching cable analog. Ughhhh!!! I am in the country in the middle of 100 ft trees but my God , Comcast should be able to send out a steady signal in HD. Somebody screwed up and we are paying for it and will be suffering with this lousy system for some time I am afraid. This digital revolution has too many failure IMHO.

Boy Art, calm down. I have an HD DVD player and couldn't be happier. It works as a great upconverting dvd player too. And the optical audio sounds just as good as it did from my previous Panny RP56 dvd player. I just use a Denon 3806 reciever and call it good.

I just spent half a day of my life looking at HD DVD and BluRay players. What a compatibility mess.

It's called a format war!! :mad:

This digital revolution has too many failure IMHO.

I was thinking about this and agreeing with you. But then I started remembering things like ghosting, channel cross talk, etc. I think in the analog world we had similar failings but we experience them differently. In the digital world it is either there or it isn't. You are not going to get a ghosted pixal similar to the old OTA analog signals.

I think our perceptions and expectations have changed with the digital revolution.

Joe

No question about it Joe. You are right about that. We certainly expect more today. I do appreciate the gorgeous picture I get. it just pisss me off that the United States got stuck with a system tat is so prone to droputs. When Comcast is unable to broadcast a good digital signal and I am unable to use my rooftop antenna, I blame the method. Frankly, the only steady signal I received last night ws from my TVRO 12 ft C/Ku Band dish. HBO, Showtime and everything else including MPEG FTA looked superb there. Why shouldn't the QAM and ATSC systems be equally robust?

And...Craig, Like you, I could compromise and listen to the DD and DTS output with my existing system. But if I am going to throw away $1,000.00 to watch Netflix movies in HD, I want to enjoy the whole enchilada and that includes the glorious audio Kevin spoke of earlier. BTW, I do not believe the lack of features or having compatibility issues is due to a Format War. i believe it is due to the fact that the standards are so porly defined and the technology is so diverse that designing a device to do this or that new thing and yet be compatible with what the other guy is designing for your unit to play on, creates a moving target where the consumer comes up short.

Joe,

I just looked at your home theater. WOW!!!!!! You are a real pro. Wish i had the wherewithall to do what you have done. I can pay no higher compliment than to say that I am ewnvious.

I just looked at your home theater. WOW!!!!!! You are a real pro. Wish i had the wherewithall to do what you have done. I can pay no higher compliment than to say that I am ewnvious.

I've seen Joe's theater in person. It is awesome. The pictures don't do it justice. I, too, am very envious.

The other Joe

I would run the L & R pre-outs to my Van Alstine equipment

Joe

Van Alstine? Boy, that name brings back distant memories. Is the old guy still alive? I remember his push-pull amps, etc. Is that what you are using?

IB

The Denon, at lease the 3805 has pre-outs as well as high powered outs. You could use the pre-outs to your mains. I used to do that when I had a mixed audio and video system. I would run the L & R pre-outs to my Van Alstine equipment and the rest of the speakers would be run from the high power outputs of the receiver. This type of setup may may serve your purpose.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Your construction looks very impressive. When will it be done? Be sure to post lots of pictures then.

Chuong

Joe,

I just looked at your home theater. WOW!!!!!! You are a real pro. Wish i had the wherewithall to do what you have done. I can pay no higher compliment than to say that I am ewnvious.


I've seen Joe's theater in person. It is awesome. The pictures don't do it justice. I, too, am very envious.

The other Joe


Hi Joe,

Your construction looks very impressive. When will it be done? Be sure to post lots of pictures then.

Chuong

Thanks guys. It has been a LOT of fun building. I had spent about 9 months on the AVS forums just reading and learning prior to beginning the construction.

My biggest mistake in regards to the construction timetable was installing the projector. We have been spending so much time enjoying it the installation is just not getting done.

The only thing I have left is the starred ceiling. It is going to be a really tough job so I have been putting it off.

When I am completely finished I will have a photographer friend of mine come and take some really nice photographs and post them.

After that I will be getting more into the automation parts of the theater. I am extremely excited about that as I have been doodling with a number of technologies and putting strategies together.

Joe

Van Alstine? Boy, that name brings back distant memories. Is the old guy still alive? I remember his push-pull amps, etc. Is that what you are using?

IB

Yeah, Frank is still around. Last I heard though his health was failing. I am using his hybrid equipment. A combination of tube and solid state. I have had his equipment for about 10 years but year before last I decided to upgrade and went with his top of the line on both the preamp and the amp.

When I decided to create a fairly decent stereo listening system I got so lucky that my choices for the equipment AND the speakers ended up being manufactured in suburbs of St. Paul. Frank is in Egan which is a south suburb and my speakers are 6.3r Magnaplaners made by magnepan, a White Bear Lake company which is a north suburb.

Joe

my speakers are 6.3r Magnaplaners made by magnepan, a White Bear Lake company which is a north suburb.

Joe

I assume you mean Magneplanar MG3.6/R. I love Magneplanars, but they are not very practical for most home theater systems. My favorite Magneplanar speaker is actually the cheaper MG 1.6. I find the mid/tweeter ribbon on that speaker more natural sounding and like the fact that it has only one crossover point. Great for stereo listening to music.

I found the Van Alstine web site. Interesting and nostalgic.

http://www.avahifi.com/

His stuff was hot when CDs were just a sci-fi rumor.

IB

Al,

That is hilarious. I too had a DSP1 and eventually upgraded to a Denon 3805!

Joe

Yes a great unit in it's day (DSP1), still can't believe how it cost back then! I actually still have it, not sure what it could be used for, I still have the SH-AC500 connected to the RXV-2090 for the 'small system' in the living room. :D

I assume you mean Magneplanar MG3.6/R.

yes, my typo.

I do not use them for the theater. I have a separate music listening area.

Joe

Yes a great unit in it's day (DSP1), still can't believe how it cost back then! I actually still have it, not sure what it could be used for, I still have the SH-AC500 connected to the RXV-2090 for the 'small system' in the living room. :D

I still have mine too. What really bummed me out about this device was the marketing of the ability to update the firmware in the fireld in order to keep it current and then they never came out with a single firmware update.

Sound familiar guys? ;)

Joe

I found the Van Alstine web site. Interesting and nostalgic.

http://www.avahifi.com/

His stuff was hot when CDs were just a sci-fi rumor.

IB

It is still really good equipment :)

I have the Transcendence 8 tube pre-amp and the fet valve 550 amp.

Joe

Joe,

...

I need to get 6 analog channels in order to enjoy losslees audio from the HD DVD units.

Art,

You may have not been aware but you put me on a quest and I have been looking around for an 8 channel solution so that I can experience the HD pure audio, and I got real lucky!!

I was asking some folks on another thread how to get 8 channel analog and someone mentioned that some of the newer motherboards have 8 channel output.

So I looked at my motherboard manual this AM and to my surprise I have 8 channel analog output from the motherboard.

Then I looked at my Denon 3805 manual and sure as sh** I have 8 channel analog input capability.

So if I have time today I am going to go to radio shack and but me 4 1/8" stereo to rca converter cables and give it a try.

I can then play the HD-DVD movies that I have through my directly connected Xbox HD-DVD player and see how it sounds.

I am quite excited and will report back.

Joe

Joe, you've got me thinking, time to look at the motherboard in my HTPC and the idea of HD-DVD add-on drive!

Keep us posted...

I use a Dell GEN 5 that has an Audigy 2ZS. It has 7.1 capability but frankly someone is going to have to convince me that more channels will create a better soundfield. I use the computer in another room from where my AV system is.

My Toshiba A1 HD DVD player only supports 6 channel output. What source with True HD decoding has 8 channel output capability?

My Fosgate FAP-T1+ processor has 8 channel output modes and I like the extra
surround envelopment and additional effects localization it provides.

I have been a big fan of the HD-81 for many months, but have decided to jump ship and move over to the JVC RS-1. I would like to thank all of you especially Jeff for having me in his home to view is great Hd-81 set up. Also to Kevin for taking time to answer so many of my questions. I now have both the HD-81 and the Rs-1 sitting in the box never turned on. I had thought about ABing them but think it will be easier to sell one of them if it is brand new. So if any of you have a friend that wants a good deal on an HD-81 (c0-6) see my post under display devices in the Market place or have them PM. I hope I have made the right decision. Again thanks to all.
Ed

My Toshiba A1 HD DVD player only supports 6 channel output. What source with True HD decoding has 8 channel output capability?


If I understand your question correctly my motherboard in my htPC has full 8 channels. I am using the Xbox HD-DVD add on player and have it connected to the htPC via USB. The drivers are automatically downloaded by Msoft's software update.

I was going to purchase the cables yesterday to try it out but didn't get around to it. I disconnected the projector and we actually got some of the starred ceiling done!! :)

Joe

I have been a big fan of the HD-81 for many months, but have decided to jump ship and move over to the JVC RS-1.

Hey Ed, be sure and let us know what you think. I'm having some of the same thoughts if the black levels of the JVC are as good as they say and the there is not a uniformity issue.

Dan Rapp is suppose to get a JVC soon, and we may do a shoot out again like we did with the Sony Pearl.

For the last number of weeks, I've just been enjoying my Optoma by taking advantage of the best of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

If I understand your question correctly my motherboard in my htPC has full 8 channels. I am using the Xbox HD-DVD add on player and have it connected to the htPC via USB. The drivers are automatically downloaded by Msoft's software update.

Joe

Thanks Joe. I guess my question is does the XBox HD DVD add-on have an inboard
Dolby TrueHD decoder that supports an 8 channel output? I don't know much about
HTPC, but it seems to me that you would need 8 channels out from the TrueHD decoder to get a proper 8 channel sound field.

Ed,

I wish you the best with your RS-1. The reviews I've read have all been positive. The other projector that is of interest to me is the Sharp 20K, but
it probably wouldn't have the lumens for your setup. I hope you will check-in
to let us know how you like your JVC.

Kevin,

I sure hope you get to do a side by side with the HD81 and RS-1.
We know the JVC will have amazing full field blacks, and a natural looking image.
My only concerns would be convergence, which drove me nuts on the Ruby's I've
seen, and color shading error, which I do not see on my HD81.


I have been a big fan of the HD-81 for many months, but have decided to jump ship and move over to the JVC RS-1. I would like to thank all of you especially Jeff for having me in his home to view is great Hd-81 set up. Also to Kevin for taking time to answer so many of my questions. I now have both the HD-81 and the Rs-1 sitting in the box never turned on. I had thought about ABing them but think it will be easier to sell one of them if it is brand new. So if any of you have a friend that wants a good deal on an HD-81 (c0-6) see my post under display devices in the Market place or have them PM. I hope I have made the right decision. Again thanks to all.
Ed

Thank Jeff and Kevin. I'll keep you posted as to my thoughts on the RS1 once it is up and running. Probably another 3 weeks away from having my home/theater finished. I'll be very interested to read what Kevin has to say on a direct comparison of the HD-81 and the Rs-1.
Cheers.......

Thanks Joe. I guess my question is does the XBox HD DVD add-on have an inboard
Dolby TrueHD decoder that supports an 8 channel output? I don't know much about
HTPC, but it seems to me that you would need 8 channels out from the TrueHD decoder to get a proper 8 channel sound field.

The only connection from the HD-DVD drive to the computer(htPC) is a USB cable. So far the Dolby 5.1 has worked fine. I don't think there is a need for any special wiring for TrueHD. Just more bandwidth. I am guessing that the USB 2.0 can handle it.

I have been able to watch 1080p HD-DVD video and audio content through the HDDVD-USB-htPC-Component-HD81 combination with no problems.

We will see how the TrueHD works though.

joe

Tonight I noticed what looks like a hot pixel that is centered on my screen. At first it was a
white spot flashing on and off. Then it became constant. Then it disappeared. Is this the
same as a dead pixel? Does Optoma have a zero dead pixel policy? This thing is right in
the upper center of the screen and will drive me crazy if it is white or black. Has anybody
experienced anything like this with any DLP projector?

Not yet Jeff. Sorry to hear that. Did you check for a piece of material in the light path. As hot as these things run, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that something melted in there. The smel on my unit continues. I had hoped that whatever was causing the smell would burn off. That has not happened.

Tonight I noticed what looks like a hot pixel that is centered on my screen. At first it was a
white spot flashing on and off. Then it became constant. Then it disappeared. Is this the
same as a dead pixel? Does Optoma have a zero dead pixel policy? This thing is right in
the upper center of the screen and will drive me crazy if it is white or black. Has anybody
experienced anything like this with any DLP projector?

Take a look at an all white field and a all black field, see what happens. Optoma will cover nuisance pixel problems for you.

Thanks Art and Tom. This white pixel is intermittant. It flickers sometimes, is solid sometimes
and gone sometimes. I see it well with on black field, can't see it on a white field.

I sent an RMA into Optoma. Here we go again, of course this would seem to be a TI issue and
my last problem was probably a Gennum issue.

Thanks Art and Tom. This white pixel is intermittant. It flickers sometimes, is solid sometimes
and gone sometimes. I see it well with on black field, can't see it on a white field.

I sent an RMA into Optoma. Here we go again, of course this would seem to be a TI issue and
my last problem was probably a Gennum issue.

Sounds like one of the mirrors has a broken wing.

Joe

The hot pixel in the center of frame continues to be intermittant, but now I have an even
brighter and constant white pixel at the top of frame. This one is blazingly bright.

I received a call from Optoma service this morning regarding my RMA request. They wanted to know how old my second projector was. Apparently, if the projector is over 90 days old, they will not do a replacment, only repair the unit you have. This is counter to what I thought the warranty was. My impression was that they replaced the unit in the first year, then repaired for the next two years.

I will follow up on this with Optoma, but if this is truly the case, I want to sign up for their
"Optoma Gold Service", which for $259/year, you get a "Hot Swap" the next business day.
I've never been an extended or enhanced warranty believer, but the HD81 has changed my
mind.

I received a call from Optoma service this morning regarding my RMA request. They wanted to know how old my second projector was. Apparently, if the projector is over 90 days old, they will not do a replacment, only repair the unit you have. This is counter to what I thought the warranty was. My impression was that they replaced the unit in the first year, then repaired for the next two years.

I will follow up on this with Optoma, but if this is truly the case, I want to sign up for their
"Optoma Gold Service", which for $259/year, you get a "Hot Swap" the next business day.
I've never been an extended or enhanced warranty believer, but the HD81 has changed my
mind.

Hey there Jeff I feel for you with all of these problems, Considering this was post #300 for you, do you feel like a Sparton against the Persians? :eek:

Sorry, couldn't resist, Good Luck!

My impression was that they replaced the unit in the first year, then repaired for the next two years.
That was my impression as well, so when you confirm it please post here.

so have we heard if the new firmware is "officially" out... seems like it is taking forever

Jeff,

You and I have been through enough crap with Optoma that they do not deserve another nickel from us. To give them even a farthing would be morally reprehensible. When this baby dies, I will feel justified in replacing it with a projector from anyone else. Every night that I try to see if it will run on low brightness and it turns blue, it intensifies the bad taste in my mouth. I had friends over to watch Flags of our Fathers. The audio was incredible. The picture quality was terrible. Gray areas abounded. Colors were wrong. It just looked bad. I was watching the SD version. Just for grins I routed the composite video feed from the DVD player to my 1971 Sony 15" TV. Colors were magnificent. Well maybe not that good but at least the faces were flesh colored and the black sand that is IWO looked like black sand not greenish puke.

I mention all this because it seems like our projector has trouble with color accuracy and black shadowy stuff when there are big splotches (areas) of it in the field. I would welcome feedback from anyone who has watched "Flags..." with this projector.

I mention all this because it seems like our projector has trouble with color accuracy and black shadowy suff when there are big splotches (areas) of it in the field. I would welcome feedback from anyone who has watched "Flags..." with this projector.
I haven't seen flags, but Last of the Mohican's (SD-DVD) looked terrible. 70% of that movie is a night/evening scene, and black/gray detail was bad. Of course the transfer could have been the problem.

Jeff,

Every night that I try to see if it will run on low brightness and it turns blue, it intensifies the bad taste in my mouth.

Art, This confuses me. What this says to me is that if you generate more heat the projector works better?

Joe

Perhaps you are confusing the intensification of bad tatste in my mouth with the intensity of the light. I see no problem with the sentence as I wrote it. I said that every night I try to get the HD81 to work in low brightness mode. When I do, it t turns blue. What is the problem?

Perhaps you are confusing the intensification of bad tatste in my mouth with the intensity of the light. I see no problem with the sentence as I wrote it. I said that every night I try to get the HD81 to work in low brightness mode. When I do, it t turns blue. What is the problem?

Heh, no I am not confusing the two. If I had the experiences that you and Jeff are having I too would have a really bad taste in my mouth.

Ok, If I understand what you are saying correctly it fails in low brightness and works in high brighteness.

Doesn't low brightness generate less heat? If heat is the issue here.

Maybe I am remembering the options incorrectly. There is high and low brightness and there is high and low altitude mode.

I can understand it if you need to keep it in high altitude mode which runs the fan faster. But high brightness mode is confusing me.

I hate to belabor the point but I want to understand it clearly as I have experience 1 bluescreen but it only lasted for about 2 seconds.

Joe

Apparently, if the projector is over 90 days old, they will not do a replacment, only repair the unit you have. This is counter to what I thought the warranty was. My impression was that they replaced the unit in the first year, then repaired for the next two years.

Hi Jeff,

Did you ever get a confirmation on whether this was true? I, too, had been under the impression that for the first year they just replace the projector. I've been having a problem with intermittent spontaneous power-offs. I was planning on being able to do the swap since I use the projector every night. I'm concerned that with an intermittent problem, they might need to keep the projector for a long time to observer and isolate the problem.

Tom, what is your understanding of how the warranty works?

Thanks!

Joe

I remember it being the first year for the H79.

Guys,

Replacement or repair at heir option. When th unit first came out, they replaced units because it was more efficient and they were looking for trends. I paid for 2 new units from them and I was grateful they allowed me to do this because that way I did not have to be without. Now, it is my understanding that they are repairing or replacing with a rfurbished unit. I'm holding on to mine unless it quits completely.

On another matter. Is the HD AX2 completely compatible with our projector, i.e. will it do 1080p at24fps

Joe,

Within 30 seconds of the moment I place the projector in normal brightness mode and standard altitude mode the blue screen comes on. I then must shut the projector off and turn it back on. If I change either the brightness level to high and/or the altitude level to high, everything will operate perfectly. That is because either high altitude or high brightness mode causes the fan to go to hurricane level and create enough turbulence that whatever gets too hot in low fan modes is cooled sufficiently.

I hope that is clear because I do not know how else to describe it. It all boils down to the fact that when you place either altitude or brightness in high, the fan spins fater. There, I said it again. Got it?

Hi Art,

Thanks for clarifying that. So they just decide on a case by case basis? That's kinda scary. I'm becoming afraid of trading a mild problem for a worse one. I guess that is the boat you have been in all along.

I do use mine with the PS3 which is 1080p 30fps. That works fine, but I have no experience with 1080p 24fps.

That is amazing that something could overheat enough in 30 seconds to cause a shutdown. Yikes!

Joe

Just to be absolutely clear. It takes 30 sec to go to a blue screen. After that I must manually shut it off, wait until it cools and then turn it back on and switch the settings rapidly to create a high blower situation.

I just purchased the XA2 for $610.00 delivered. I hope that is a good price and that it will be compatible with the VXD when set at the 24 fps setting.

As to the case by case basis, I do not know. I do know that after I contacted the persons Jeff referred me to, Warren was very accomodating even when the second unit was not quantifiably bad, i.e. he took my word for my inability to display a sharp picture with #2. Although #3 will not operate in normal brightness or normal altitude, I would never trade it. It is razor sharp. BTW, I have almost 500 hours on the bulb.

One other question...What is the best HD DVD set up disc? I will need one now. I understand that Digital Video Essentials in HD DVD will not be available until May 28, 2007.

Hi Art,

Unfortunately, they are no other commercially available HD-DVD setup disks. That's why people are so disappointed that the date keeps slipping. There are some threads on the HD-DVD software forum where people have made their own. The newest versions of both Ulead Video Studio and Pinnacle Studio have the capability to author HD-DVDs to standard DVDs. They play just fine in HD on the Toshiba players, just with less capacity. People have found test patterns and made them into HD-DVDs. I have made HD-DVDs of HD video I have shot with my Sony HD camcorder. I won't take up any more space since this is OT, but feel free to send me a PM & I'll gladly help you if you would like.

I just checked the HD Digest web site. They are listing March 27 for Digital Video Essentials.

Joe

There, I said it again. Got it?

Thanks Art, the piece I was missing and did not realize is that the fan turns faster in bright mode. It all makes sense now.

Joe

so have we heard if the new firmware is "officially" out... seems like it is taking forever


I just called on tuesday of this week and asked to RMA mine for a firmware upgrade. They sent me an RMA number and said no problem. I am told the current version is C08 by one of their support guys that emailed me back. I was also having problems losing sync with HDMI sources (PS3 and XA2) so im hoping C08 fixes that as well. I got my HD81 in Decemeber from AVS with C06 on it.

They require you to ship it to them (fully insured) then they ship back overnight @ their cost. I asked if they were sending the same unit back or a new one and it sounds like they still just send a replacement but i'm not positive. They wouldnt cross-ship even if i gave them a credit card for security (unless the unit was less than 30 days old).

The worst part is the dang thing costed me $180 to ship to them (insured, 2nd day air)...i didnt want to ground it because it would take a week + 3-5 days turnaround.

Anyways, here's hoping i dont get a lemon back......I'll probably end up buying their gold service jus to avoid this in the future.

I have isolated what triggers my spontaneous power offs. I have a tvix digital media server. When I switch to that, after about a minute the blue "temp" light begins to flash. A few seconds later, the projector powers off. If I switch the HD81 to a different input as soon as the temp light begins to flash, the flashing stops and the projector is fine again.

Originally, the tvix was set to 1080p and connected with a DVI to HDMI cable. I changed its settings to 1080i but nothing changed. I connected with component instead of DVI. Nothing changed. I still get the power offs.

I can't figure out what the tvix could be doing that would cause the HD81 to power off so quickly. Does anyone have ideas?

Thanks

Joe

Oops - you're right. I just got an email from Amazon that Digital Video Essentials has been postponed until May 16.

Joe

Sorry to ask again but do any of you use a Toshiba XA2? If so, have you used the six analog outputs to listen to the internally Dolby True HS et al modes of streamed audio? I can not find a cheap pre/pro ike Al suggeted to use in place of my Sony ESP9ES or the Elite SP99D. The latter lacks analo stereo independent left and right rear channel inputs (they use a mono one)and it lacks a subwoofer input. I am considering feeding the optical or coaxial output of the XA2 to the input of the DTS millenium DTS decoder. Will that get me Dolby True?

Never Mind....I just canceled the order because I read a review that highlighted numerous unresolved issues. The one that made me cancel was the fact that the LFE audio is over 10dB lower than it should be via the analog outputs and the DD and DTS out. That combined with a persistent skipping issue leves me HD DVD less. Bummer....I was looking forward to it.

Hi Art,

I see you canceled your order, but just in case the information comes in useful for you at some future time, here is what I know.

I have the XA1, which also has six analog outputs. I was using them until I bought a receiver that has HDMI input. I use that now. My understandingi is the optical and coaxial digital outputs do not carry TrueHD because they do not have sufficient bandwidth. To get TrueHD, you need to either use the analog or HDMI connections.

Joe

I have been doing some more experimenting with my power off issue. As soon as I begin playback with the Tvix media server, the TEMP light begins to blink blue. If I don't do anything, the projector powers off in a few seconds. If I switch to a different input, the blinking stops immediately. At that point, I have been able to switch back to the Tvix and watch without incident.

Does anyone have ideas what might be going on?

Thanks!

Joe

Never Mind....I just canceled the order because I read a review that highlighted numerous unresolved issues. The one that made me cancel was the fact that the LFE audio is over 10dB lower than it should be via the analog outputs and the DD and DTS out. That combined with a persistent skipping issue leves me HD DVD less. Bummer....I was looking forward to it.

Hey Art, I am sure that all of this would be fixable by a field upgrade of the firmware. :D

Joe

If I switch to a different input, the blinking stops immediately. At that point, I have been able to switch back to the Tvix and watch without incident.
This sure sounds like a communication problem with the serial-controller interface. Perhaps related to the problem I've seen where adjusting contrast or color screws up the color setting, and the only way to reset it is to switch to another input and then back.

Hey Art, I am sure that all of this would be fixable by a field upgrade of the firmware. :D

Joe

Joe,

As much as I want to believe that it might be fixed by some future firmware upgrade, I guess I am a bit gunshy about upgrades be they past, present future or not yet planned. From what I read, Toshiba is not planning future updates after 1.3. The tested unit had 1.3 in it. I may just go back to SVHS tapes if this digital revolution does not stabilize. From my perspective I see a lot of unfulfilled promises that result in considerable inconvenience when you want to just sit and watch the screen instead of fiddle with the equipment. I certainly would not want to have to return 3 units and hope that I get a good one. This Optoma thing has left me bitter. The inability to dull the roar of that fan over my head every night, akin to the high noise torture inflicted on our ARAB POW's, is enough to sour even the most avid hobbyist.

This sure sounds like a communication problem with the serial-controller interface. Perhaps related to the problem I've seen where adjusting contrast or color screws up the color setting, and the only way to reset it is to switch to another input and then back.

Thanks Kevin,

That does sound interesting. Do you know if the problem with the color settings was fixed in C08?

It is odd that it just appears to be that one source that is a problem for me, and the problem is the same whether I am using HDMI or component, 1080p or 1080i. I'd like if it I could find a solution so that I don't have to send in my projector for repair or replacement.

Joe

My HD81 display looks like a planetarium star field when displaying black. Every night a new, super bright pixel appears, visible on all material. I had guests on Saturday night and they had the experience of seeing a new pixel develop in the middle of the program.

Optoma service has been fantastic, they've had a new unit waiting for me since late last week. They have been super responsive, calling and emailing me. They confirmed that HD81's ship with C08 now. When I have a chance to go over there for the exchange, I will find out what the warranty exchange policy is for the first year. I went ahead and signed
up for the Gold Hot Swap warranty program, but haven't heard anything back about that
yet.

I am hoping this version of C08 works better than the last, I'll report what date it shows
and try to find out when the firmware download site will be ready.

Ok, here's what I've found out from Optoma today:

For warranty, HD81 will be swapped in the first 90 days from the invoice date.
It is my presumption that if a replacement fails within 90 days, it will also be
swapped--this is what is going on right now for my third HD81.

Still no ETA on downloadable firmware.

Gold Service Program(Hot Swap) is in effect upon payment and approval. It is only applicable during normal factory warranty duration and ends no later than the original factory warranty.

So you can't renew the Gold Warranty as an "extended warranty"? That kinda sucks...they should allow that as long as you have kept "Gold" through your original factory warranty.

Jeff do you know when you get the upgrade to C08...when the "download able" option is avail you will be able to do it... or is another upgrade required at the service center?

I have C06 and have some HDMI problems that I have worked around but would like to get fixed before I integrate the complete product. for a CE product the development team sure moves slow... I thought this upgrade would have been avail a while ago

Jeff do you know when you get the upgrade to C08...when the "download able" option is avail you will be able to do it... or is another upgrade required at the service center?


Chris,

Net downloads require a motherboard mod. on projectors delivered with C04, C05,
C06. When a unit is upgraded to C08 at Optoma they do the hardware mod. My
assumption is that HD81's delivered new with CO8 have the hardware change incorporated, which I assume has been done in manufacturing in Taiwan. To my
mind, having C08 means not having to send projector and processor back to Optoma
for firmware upgrades.

Hey Jeff,

Looks like I was not able to stop shipment of the XA2. Looks like I will be getting it in a few days afterall. I also found out that mt Pre/Pro has a 6 channel analog bypass mode. Now if I could just find a way to adjust the gain on the 6 channels simultaneously. If any of you have any ideas, I would be grateful. I understand that the XA2 will not do 1080 24p. Does this agree with what you have heard?

Art,

HD DVD really is lovely, I just don't see compression artifacts that are so prevalent with cable
and mini-dish HD programming, plus it is full raster horizontal resolution vs. HD lite found on
DirecTV. The XA2 will do a great job of SD DVD upconverting, but the Gennum VXP already does that very well. The XA2 should have individual channel gains for the analog outputs(not convenient for adjustment during a movie). The problem I have read about with the XA2 is lack of subwoofer level. I have read good things about improved playback on most discs that were problematic on gen 1 players. However, I have heard of some discs having a frame stutter issue. I was hoping the XA2
would have a 24p firmware update by now, but Toshiba was very good with their gen 1 updates. This is unlike Panasonic, who have just come out with an "A" model of their original Blu-Ray player which does what was promised with the original model that was supposed to be enhanced with firmware. But, hey, it only costs twice as much as an XA2!

Thanks Jeff...I am debating whether to not accept the box or alternatively to open it and try it. Your news about gain adjustments on the analog channels sounds like I might be able to choose a level for each channel. Now, if there were an overall volume control.... My Velodyne F1800R has an infrared remote capability that allows you to adjust the subwoofer's volume level. Not very precise , but enough to let me test the player. When the VE disc becomes available, I wil be able to set some accurate levels. Meanwhile, I will try to design a 6 channel line level gain control. If anyone knows of a cheap 6 channel preamp, I'd appreciate a holler.

The XA2 will do a great job of SD DVD upconverting, but the Gennum VXP already does that very well.
Jeff - can you tell the difference between an upconverted image on the XA2 vs the Gennum?

This is unlike Panasonic, who have just come out with an "A" model of their original Blu-Ray player which does what was promised with the original model that was supposed to be enhanced with firmware. But, hey, it only costs twice as much as an XA2!
I own the Panasonic and it has been updated via firmware to do nearly everything they have promised. The next firmware update due in April will add DTS-HD (which is something they promised only via a firmware update).

I would own the XA2 today if it had 7 channel outputs like the Panasonic does (especially at the Amazon price of $599). I also like the fact that the Panasonic can play DVD-A, and will soon have DTS-HD, which the XA2 does not. You can get the Panasonic for $899, so it costs more, but not twice as much. Only a month ago the XA2 cost $729 at Amazon, so the $170 extra for the Panasonic made perfect sense.

Jeff - can you tell the difference between an upconverted image on the XA2 vs the Gennum?


I own the Panasonic and it has been updated via firmware to do nearly everything they have promised. The next firmware update due in April will add DTS-HD (which is something they promised only via a firmware update).

I would own the XA2 today if it had 7 channel outputs like the Panasonic does (especially at the Amazon price of $599). I also like the fact that the Panasonic can play DVD-A, and will soon have DTS-HD, which the XA2 does not. You can get the Panasonic for $899, so it costs more, but not twice as much. Only a month ago the XA2 cost $729 at Amazon, so the $170 extra for the Panasonic made perfect sense.

Simple Theater,

I don't own an XA2, just the old A1. I have used the Silicon HQV test disc(same
chipset used in XA2) with the Gennum vs. the A!, and the Gennum did very well, much better than the A1 upconversion, so I'd be surprised if the XA2 looked much better.

Thank you for correcting me regarding the Panasonic firmware updates and pricing. I wonder why they just came out with an "A" version just a few months
after the original player? DTS-HD has not been used for HD DVD, of course it
might be in the future if a player supported it. $899 is a lot better than $1200
or $1400, whatever the MSRP was and I like the idea of seven analog outputs,
but my Fosgate processor only has six inputs, I believe.

I think Blu-Ray will prevail over HD DVD, or they will both end up losing. What I
don't like are Sony's marketing tactics, claiming victory when there are only 30,000 stand alone Blu-Ray players vs. 200,000 HD DVD players. We don't yet know how
many PS3's will be used for HD movie viewing vs. a very high attach rate of HD DVD titles per player. They claim higher title sales since the beginning of the year,
but these are artificially inflated by free movie vouchers being claimed by PS3 owners. Anyway, off topic, but it's good to see the hardware costs going down
rapidly by both camps.

The problem I have read about with the XA2 is lack of subwoofer level.

If I plug my unit into my McIntosh a/v pre-pro then couldn't I just adust the sub woofer level on the pre-amp? I never understood this and ran into people talking about adujsting the sub-woofer level years ago on th Denon 5900 dvd player that I own. I just run a optical out to the optical in on the pre-amp and adjust level there. The pre-amp does all the dolby and dts decoding.

What am I not understanding?

thanks, Mike

Because the subwoofer level is way to low on the output of the XA2 and I will not have a way to adjust the subwoofer level or any other level when I use the analog Bypass on my Pre/Pro, I need a way to boost the volume level on the subwoofer. I can accomplish that with the remote which will raise the sub,s amplifier's gain. Unfortunately, that will throw the subwoofer off for every other source in my system.

If I plug my unit into my McIntosh a/v pre-pro then couldn't I just adust the sub woofer level on the pre-amp? I just run a optical out to the optical in on the pre-amp and adjust level there. The pre-amp does all the dolby and dts decoding.

What am I not understanding?

thanks, Mike

Mike,

I think what you need to understand is that if you want Dolby Digital + or Dolby
True HD, optical or coax digital outputs will not work. The decoding is done in
the player, therefore you need to use the 6 analog outputs. This is normally a
bypass mode in processors, meaning you won't have level trims on the analog
6 channel inputs and instead must use either the player or an active subwoofer
in the case of the very low .1 signal output on the XA2.

You could use HDMI out to a processor, but I'm not aware of too many processors
that offer DD+ or TrueHD.

Jeff,

UPS just delivered the XA2. I will use the Bypass mode on the Pre/Pro and hope I can get enough control with the internal XA2 level adjustments. Thanks for all your help as usual.

Mike,

I think what you need to understand is that if you want Dolby Digital + or Dolby
True HD, optical or coax digital outputs will not work. The decoding is done in
the player, therefore you need to use the 6 analog outputs.


Is any processing done in the player? I would have thought that no processing is needed because there is no multiplexing going on because of the discreet channels.


This is normally a bypass mode in processors, meaning you won't have level trims on the analog 6 channel inputs and instead must use either the player or an active subwoofer in the case of the very low .1 signal output on the XA2.



I do not believe that being in bypass mode on my Denon (8 channel ext. in) will bypass the discreet channel volume controls in the amp portion of the Denon.

I did buy the cables that I needed. I just have not had the chance to test the TrueHD out yet.

Joe

Is any processing done in the player? I would have thought that no processing is needed because there is no multiplexing going on because of the discreet channels.

I do not believe that being in bypass mode on my Denon (8 channel ext. in) will bypass the discreet channel volume controls in the amp portion of the Denon.

I did buy the cables that I needed. I just have not had the chance to test the TrueHD out yet.

Joe

Joe,

The DD+ and TrueHD must be decoded in the player and output through the discreet 6 analog outputs. Optical and coax digital don't carry the needed bandwidth for
these new Dolby surround codecs. HDMI 1.3 will, but then you need a processor to
do the decoding and I'm not aware of many that have TrueHD built-in.

I'm sure you can use your amplifier level trims, but you'd have to re-trim everytime
you play an HD DVD through the analog inputs on your processor due to the anemic
subwoofer channel output level from the XA2.

With an HDMI connection, the player decodes the DD+ or TrueHD and converts it to uncompressed PCM which is passed along the HDMI connection. The receiver doesn't have to know anything about the new codecs. Nor is HDMI 1.3 needed with the player doing the decoding and passing uncompressed PCM to the receiver.

Joe