[/QUOTE] funlvr1965
HT JUNKIE!


Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MADISON wisconsin
Posts: 450 Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67
Im sorry if I missed this in one of the many Optoma threads but did they find out exactly what was causing all the bulb failures, and has it been corrected?




TRAITOR! [QUOTE]

Hmm, since the time that I have sold you the projector (and verified that payment was indeed wire transferred into my bank account) I have realized that I was only fooling myself into thinking that the Ruby was the best projector I have ever seen. 8)

Just kidding. 8)

Just checking out the potential landscape of 1080p PJ candidates for my new media room. If I was not going for a larger 2.35 setup with the possibility of more ambient light than in my current media room it wouldnt be much of a choice for me.

Still a good chance I might try to buy that Ruby back from you for 20% off what you paid for it. 8)

funlvr1965
HT JUNKIE!


Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MADISON wisconsin
Posts: 450 Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67
Im sorry if I missed this in one of the many Optoma threads but did they find out exactly what was causing all the bulb failures, and has it been corrected?




TRAITOR!


Still a good chance I might try to buy that Ruby back from you for 20% off what you paid for it. 8)


WHERES MY GUN!!! :D

Press release:

Optoma Debuts Its True 1080p Home Theater Projector Featuring a New Sleek Design, Studio-Quality Resolution and Image Processing

ORLANDO (June 7, 2006) – Optoma, one of the leading manufacturers of digital projection and display devices, introduces the Optoma HD81 home theater projector, its newest high performance digital projector. The HD81 home theater projector is a true 1080p (1920 x 1080) projector that features Texas Instruments’ BrilliantColor™ color technology, DarkChip3 ™ DMD chipset, studio-grade resolution and best all-around high-quality display experience for home theater enthusiasts.

The Optoma HD81 has the same resolution of modern digital movies, offering an amazing home theater experience. If the home does not have a true 1080p source, with the HD81’s studio-grade professional video/color enhancement processor, the motion adaptive HD de-interlacer will flawlessly convert the content to 1080p.

The HD81 highlights Texas Instruments’ BrilliantColor color processing technology to deliver higher brightness and provide truer, more vibrant colors to the projected picture. With 10-bit color per channel color processing, a 7-segment color wheel and its amazing 6000:1(full on/off) contrast ratio, the Optoma HD81 DLP® home theater projector delivers great color saturation and subtle color details for the best image quality.

With its new industrial design, the HD81 lowers the noise level usually associated with other typical home theater projectors. The patent pending tunnel cooling system is designed for near-silent operation with minimal light leakage.

Specifications:
Display Technology: Single 0.95-inch DarkChip3™ DLP® technology
Brightness (typical): 1400 lumens with a 300W lamp
Resolution: 1080p native, with 1080i HD de-interlacing and color management
Image scaler: Gennum VXP solutions
Color Management: 10-step Gamma enhancement, RGBCYM 6-color, 15-region adjustment
Video Compatibility: NTSC, PAL, SECAM, HDTV (720p, 1080i), EDTV (480p), SDTV (480i), 576i/p
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 native, 4:3 compatible
I/O Connectors: 3x HDMI™ + 1x External HDMI expansion, 2x RBGHV/component (BNC), 2x RCAcomponent, 3x S-Video, 3x Composite, 1x VGA (RGB/YPbPr/SCART), 2x RS232, 2x 12V Trigger, 1x IR port extension
CEDIA certification: ISF ccc certification

The HD81’s video/color enhancement processing system delivers an advanced three-stage process flow (decoding, image enhancement, color reproduction enhancement) that offers impressive, personalized adjustment setting at each stage.

Optoma’s innovative cable management system makes wire-filled installations a thing of the past. Optoma developed this easy-to-install cabling solution to deliver a loss- and interference-free signal from the video/color enhancement box to the HD81 1080p projector. This fully digital source-to-display link is connected through a high-speed digital cable signal; and then transmits data to more than 100 feet.

The two-piece design of the HD81 eliminates the need for multiple cables; all that is needed for the projector to be connected is a single HDMI video cable and a single control cable. With the image enhancement box’s extensive inputs, there are more than enough connections to up-convert sources to 1080p for optimal viewing.

The Optoma HD81 home theater projector will be available in late summer for an estimated street price of $5,999 through authorized Optoma dealers.

And the best part of all is the estimated street price of $5,999. Hopefully we will see 4000:1 contrast and 800+ lumens at D65.

Press release:


Where did you pick this up?

How reliable is this, anybody?!?

Where did you pick this up?

virtualpressoffice.com (free registration required)

How reliable is this, anybody?!?

This PR or this forum member? :D

I agree that $5,999 looks like a typo, but that's what it says.

1 Does the price include the processor?
2 Why do they not do a service to dealers quoting a MSRP of 10k$ which dealers can be "kind" to sell below to you as a favor. Stating a street piice is almost slapping dealers in the face.
3 The value seems incredible and lets hope the performance is good too. Then who is going to buy a 18k$ Marantz?

3 The value seems incredible and lets hope the performance is good too. Then who is going to buy a 18k$ Marantz?

It is really very hard to grasp, indeed ... when I first picked up the rumor about the 6k pricing I thought it must be an error. Now it is mentioned in this official (??) press release. Therefore my question whether Optoma has confirmed this or whether it still is only a bad rumor....

Guitarman can you confirm?

I was hoping the press release would be listed in the "Press Releases" section of the http://www.optimausa.com web site, but unfortunately the last press release they have listed is from April 18th, 2006.

The press release from Optoma sure makes it sound like the price for the two piece system will street at $5999. I guess this could be an error by Optoma but the descrition above the price touts the 2 piece system with only two cords going to the projector.

It even sounds like the projector may have to have the Optoma box to work, similar to the Dwin. There is a control cable from the box to the projector. If this is the case, then the projector would not be sold without the box.

I didn't see any mention of an adjustable iris. Seems like this would have been in the release. Guess we will know soon enough.

It is looking very much like this will be my next projector.

Hey guys,

I just called and talked with Douglas as Optima about the HD81. He said that it will be available around late August, so it looks like it is still a bit of a wait. He said that he doesn't have an exact MSRP right now, that it will be somewhere between $8,000.00 and $10,000.00.

Sean Dudley

The press release from Optoma sure makes it sound like the price for the two piece system will street at $5999. I guess this could be an error by Optoma but the descrition above the price touts the 2 piece system with only two cords going to the projector.

I don't think you can even buy the two parts separately. Optoma has made it very clear from the beginning that the projector and outboard processor are one unit. So I'm sure the price is for the package.

I was just looking over the virtualpressoffice.com's postings from Infocom, and there is also Optoma's announcement of the 7300, a 720p pj also with the Gennum external video processor. It states is 'peak' CR also at 6000:1 and 1200 Lumen brightness. Interestingly, it also lists is 'estimated street price' of $5999, same as that of the HD-81. Sounds fishy. Maybe this figure for the HD-81 IS a typo.

The phrase:

"CEDIA certification: ISF ccc certification" at the end of the specification sort of says it all.

ANYTHING that has been sold with "ISF Certification*" has rarely if ever been a good value. It means you have paid homage to ISF gods and are preparing to sell your product through the low-volume/high-priced CEDIA channel. I think the $5999 price is a typo as well. They COULD do it for that price but I doubt they WILL. We'll see what dealer restrictions are put in place, but since most Optoma dealers do most sales via internet, I don't know how they could market/sell this product differently than their normal HT line.

Still an interesting projector, but don't get your hopes up.

-Mr. Wigggles

*"ISF Certification" doesn't mean ISF Calibrated. It means, among other things, it is capable of being ISF Calibrated.

$5999 street sounds about right. If buyers are getting the Ruby at $7000 than Optoma would set their MAP lower so $5999 would work. The 7300 $5999 is probably the MSRP. They will be selling the Gennum scaler box seperate and will price is at the same street level as the DVDO VP30.

$5999 street sounds about right. If buyers are getting the Ruby at $7000 than Optoma would set their MAP lower so $5999 would work. The 7300 $5999 is probably the MSRP. They will be selling the Gennum scaler box seperate and will price is at the same street level as the DVDO VP30.

But is it reasonable that the 7300 is the same price as the HD-81? They do seem to differ only in being 720p and 1080p, respectively, but I would have thought that there would be SOME price premium for 1080p. ???

$5999 street sounds about right. If buyers are getting the Ruby at $7000 than Optoma would set their MAP lower so $5999 would work. The 7300 $5999 is probably the MSRP. They will be selling the Gennum scaler box seperate and will price is at the same street level as the DVDO VP30.
What is your title with Optoma again?

Last I heard the HD81 will MSRP at $9999. The $5999 is probably MSRP for the HD7300.

What is your title with Optoma again?


Inside man lol

I hope Tom is right about the street price of the HD-81. This will really set a new benchmark that all new 1080p pj's will have to deal with, to all of our benefit!

Anyone care to speculate on how this processor would stack up against the current competition?
If someone was in the market for a processor, would you wait for this to come out

Do we have a full list of the HD-81's specs yet (it's not yet on the Optoma website). In the main thread anticipating the 81, it was stated that it would have an iris when it was finally brought out. I don't see any mention of that in the present announcement; do you know, Tom?

It still seems a little high for a one chipper. 8) Unless the Gennum processor is bundled with it, than that sounds pretty ok. 8)

As Tryg pointed out, the Ruby is a 3 chipper, and so will be the Cinetron.

But is it reasonable that the 7300 is the same price as the HD-81? They do seem to differ only in being 720p and 1080p, respectively, but I would have thought that there would be SOME price premium for 1080p. ???
Not that we should be chatting up street prices, but since they are unreleased....

At $6k MSRP, the 7300 will probably come in around $4k - $4.5k. That is essentially $2500 for the head unit and $1500 - 2000 for the box. It will be interesting to see whether the box is any good.

Anyone care to speculate on how this processor would stack up against the current competition?
If someone was in the market for a processor, would you wait for this to come out
See here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=685816

I wonder how BenQ and InFocus plan on countering the HD81. The way I see it, the HD81 has a few standout features including a two box configuration, a 300 watt lamp, and an anticipated street price of around 6K. The lack of lens shift could be a deal breaker for many, and this feature is likely to be included on whatever 1080P projector BenQ is planning.

Do we have a full list of the HD-81's specs yet (it's not yet on the Optoma website). In the main thread anticipating the 81, it was stated that it would have an iris when it was finally brought out. I don't see any mention of that in the present announcement; do you know, Tom?

Color wheel is RGB/RGBG 6x. I don't know where the RGBCYM came from in the press release. They're showing the final product with the 20step Iris at the show now.

Does the HD81 have a vertical stretch for 2.35 material?

I wouldn't bet against it. Wing is the Aspect guy for Optoma he's initiated letterbox stretch for all their past HT projectors.

Color wheel is RGB/RGBG 6x. I don't know where the RGBCYM came from in the press release. They're showing the final product with the 20step Iris at the show now.
What are the color wheel configurations available for BC? Are there more than 2?

Raol GS
You have Brilliantcolor processing and you might one day see a r g b y cy mg color wheel. AFAIK Brillinatcolor uses rgb transitions for adding extra light. This since r+g , g+b and b+r equals ...

To me Brilliantcolor is mostly to get more light foremost and secondary better color reproduction to business projectors.

What coincides with Brilliantcolor is 10 bit processing with DDP3020 or DDP 3021 and that is the big step up in performance.

I wonder how BenQ and InFocus plan on countering the HD81. The way I see it, the HD81 has a few standout features including a two box configuration, a 300 watt lamp, and an anticipated street price of around 6K. The lack of lens shift could be a deal breaker for many, and this feature is likely to be included on whatever 1080P projector BenQ is planning.
InFocus plans on releasing a 1080P DLP by late July - early August. It will MSRP for $10k and we haven't gotten any street pricing on it yet, but it will have to be competitive with the Optoma & Ruby. The only technical details I am sure about is that it will come with an option for a long or short throw lens. Lumen output, etc. has not been released yet.

The fact that no InFocus 1080P press release or other material has yet been released, makes me wonder if the summer delivery is possible.

Disclosure: I am a dealer of Knoll products (which are very similar to InFocus).

The Optoma folks at the booth at InfoComm are telling people that H81 will be available in late August and sell for $8K from Authorized Dealers. I don't know if that means MSRP or MAP but that's what they're telling people.

DB2,
Are you at Infocomm?

Ericglo

The Optoma folks at the booth at InfoComm are telling people that H81 will be available in late August and sell for $8K from Authorized Dealers. I don't know if that means MSRP or MAP but that's what they're telling people.

Can you get final specs?

Raol GS
What coincides with Brilliantcolor is 10 bit processing with DDP3020 or DDP 3021 and that is the big step up in performance.
Does this mean that if you see a projector with 10-bit processing, you can assume Brilliantcolor? Or does it just go the other way?

Raol GS
...
What coincides with Brilliantcolor is 10 bit processing with DDP3020 or DDP 3021 and that is the big step up in performance.
As we have discussed it in the past, we are in agreement that Brilliant Color is a gimmick more than anything.

I do want to correct you on this last statement. The DDP1010, used in most 720p projectors over the years, had 10 bit processing and that was way before Brilliant Color ever happened. Very few companies used the 10 bit processing but it was there.

Futhermore the "10-bit processing" of the HD81 is LIKELY to happen in the scaler not in the projector head because the link between the projector and the scaler is a HDMI link. Now HDMI does support 10-bit YCrCb and so does the DDP3020 but the former is only at 4:2:2 (i.e. color info is subsampled). Now that isn't a problem for movies but if you have any desire to put a desktop image on the machine you are going to want 4:4:4 RGB going to the projector even if it is "only" 8-bits. So my guess is that they are sending 8bit RGB all the time to the projector head.

Therefore, I doubt the DDP3021 is actually doing any 10-bit processing.

What does this all mean? Nothing really; I am just correcting Ohlson's minor confusion on the matter. I personally would trade full 8-bit RGB (i.e. 16.7 million colors) with no chroma subsampling any day of the week over 10-bit 4:2:2 YCbCr. So, I am not criticizing the 8bit RGB link from the scaler to the projector; I think it is fine.

The suite of technologies encompassed by Brilliant Color is mostly smoke and mirrors. Real performance increases in DLP technology will be from brighter and better optical designs, faster colorwheels, and faster processing (which the 3021 has).

-Mr. Wigggles

The Optoma folks at the booth at InfoComm are telling people that H81 will be available in late August and sell for $8K from Authorized Dealers. I don't know if that means MSRP or MAP but that's what they're telling people.

I was just there yesterday and one of the exhibitors said that it will MSRP for around 10k and street for $7999. It will be available from mid to end of August. He also told me that there will not be two separate units but all integrated into one unit for easy connectivity. I don't know if this is a last minute change or if the guy didn't know what he was talking about.

He also told me that there will not be two separate units but all integrated into one unit for easy connectivity. I don't know if this is a last minute change or if the guy didn't know what he was talking about.

Sounds like he didn't know what he was talking about. Is the projector not there on display? Did you see it? Why hasn't anyone reported on what it looks like now. Out of all the people that visit this forum you would think someone that visited Infocomm would have reported back about this projector if it is indeed set up for viewing at this time.

At Optoma´s UK site you can find a press realise stating that the street price will be 5.999$

I just got off the phone with someone who saw this ( which is why they called ) but I will not reveal his name but he is well respected among the technically talented on this forum.
He was very impressed. He could not see any rainbows but tried. No dithering to his eye on the material they were showing. Good black level and detail. Plenty of brightness. The PD at the show had a little more pop but not much. Keep in mind the PD is 30+ K.

Thats all I got so far. Sounds like a winner.

Edited: He was also told 6k which I assume is street price. Strange a manufacture would promote street price but hey, to an end user thats what counts.

Thanks for the report Alan. I take it that it was a two box design? Sounds encouraging.

Just looked at Optoma UK after Engberg mentioned the article, and here it is:

http://www.optoma.co.uk/optomav2/modules/Otherpress/Optoma%20HD81-Infocomm-Press-Release.pdf

It definitely says it streets at $5,999 which is impressive IMHO.

Gary

They will sell a TON if that price turns out to be true.

Ok so lets start a group buy???

But of course. :) Actually I don't know what the policies will be on this. This is going to be a protected piece from what I understand (so the .com places may not even get it). I don't know what all that translates to for special group buys.
However, no harm in getting interested parties. So, if anyone is intersted, drop me an email at jason@avscience.com. The more people the more potential for a group buy.

I sent you an email. Sign me up once we get detailed instalation requirment specs.

Alan,
Did your source indicate what size and type of screen was used with the HD81?

Optoma might have trouble building in big enough quantities at that price and performance. If this was a lens shift projector the game would have been won by Optoma.

Alan,
Did your source indicate what size and type of screen was used with the HD81?

No. The call was short and to the point. Sorry.
I hope others who saw this will post more info.

Doesn't it have to get down there to compete with the Ruby?

I realize that DLP wants to give the perception that it is the premium product, but I think Ruby sales are proof that the market responds to value pricing.

Ken

Optoma might have trouble building in big enough quantities at that price and performance. If this was a lens shift projector the game would have been won by Optoma.
I'd have taken a flat throw, even. However, if the 20% offset that was originally indicated is true, this thing won't fint anywhere in my room.

Later,
Bill

Just looked at Optoma UK after Engberg mentioned the article, and here it is:

http://www.optoma.co.uk/optomav2/modules/Otherpress/Optoma%20HD81-Infocomm-Press-Release.pdf

It definitely says it streets at $5,999 which is impressive IMHO.

Gary

I told you so, didn't I? :p

Just looked at Optoma UK after Engberg mentioned the article, and here it is:

http://www.optoma.co.uk/optomav2/mo...ess-Release.pdf

It definitely says it streets at $5,999 which is impressive IMHO.

Well, since this is a UK site wouldn't that be $5,999 Euros? Which today would be $ 7,591.00. Still a good price. Still competes with Ruby since I don't like the picture softness of anything but DLP myself. I'm really interested in seeing this projector.

Wow... $6K for a true 1920*1080 1chipDLP? That's a big deal, folks.

With the absurdly overprized 1080 DLP's we have come to know of sofar, this comes as a nice surprise. Optoma could corner the 1080 DLP market with this one and really give the Pearl and Cinetron some hard competition. But lensshift would have been nice, even if that meant a $7K pricetag or something.

I wonder how BenQ will react to this (and everybody else for that matter). :)

Well, since this is a UK site wouldn't that be $5,999 Euros? Which today would be $ 7,591.00. Still a good price. Still competes with Ruby since I don't like the picture softness of anything but DLP myself. I'm really interested in seeing this projector.

Its just a link to the us pressrelease so ehmm no :), i think optoma just put out a wrong pressrelease kinda weird. This will haunt them for a while (again) the price of 7999 aint to but unless you think it was 5999 :).

Daniel.

Well, since this is a UK site wouldn't that be $5,999 Euros?

That would be written €5999. The $ symbol indicates US currency.

Joe

That would be written €5999. The $ symbol indicates US currency.

Well then put me down for 2 at that price! Seriously, that will be as great a new price / performance shake up in the projector world as Ruby has been, eh?

From the looks of it, Sony has made a mint on the Ruby.

This sounds like a great strategy for Optoma. Even if they only made $3,000 on each projector, instead of $5,000 .. if they more than double their sales, which I am sure they could, then they would come out way ahead.

Plus think of all the free money they could make on the number of extended service plans they could sell, as long as they exclude bulb replacements 8).

At this point, the Ruby has already taken a whole bunch of market share but I bet there is still a lot of market share to be had by the 1080p DLP leader. If the Sharp, the Optoma, and the Cinetron hover at the same value point as the Ruby there will be a lot of sales split between them until one of them takes a deeper cut.

I dont see how the Marantz would be able to sell enough to make a dent. It would be tough enough against the Ruby alone, but if the Optoma comes out first by a couple of months .. and at $5,999 I think it could be all over quickly. There might not be a market, except for maybe 3 chip DLPs, left for the rest.

I hope they shift a lot of their capacity into HD81s so that they can come out at that pricepoint and try to take a whole lot of market share.

Looks like front projector pricing is about to fall in line with RPTV pricing finally. Thank you, Sony!

I agree. I think it is a very attractive price, especially considering there are 720p DLPs for nearly twice that. I'm ready to buy one as soon as they are available!

Joe

Even if the $9999 MSRP, $7999 street deal is the truth, I think that is a strong value for a two-piece combo with Gennum's true 1080i deinterlacing, the video switching and scaling engine this system is supposed to include. $5999 as a street price is almost unbelievable for both pieces together. Really, I'll be surprised if they are sold this low right out of the blocks. Pleasantly, but surprised nonetheless.

I remember at CES Tzungilin said they'll make lens shift models later. Using the EP910's platform now for a fast release.

I wonder how the Iris is working out? Ask about it?

At $7,999 for the Optoma vs the Ruby with lens shift and 3 chip, that might not be too favorable for the HD81. The Sharp has lens shift, too.

It definitely is appealing with a $10k MSRP, but it will not be alone. When you factor in Sony service so far on the Rubies, and Sharp's reputation, Iknow it would be up in the air for me.

Hi

Maybe the price should be in pounds UK has no Euro.
Then it wil be 6000p = aboud 9000€

Rob

I spent about 2 hours at the show yesterday, and I plan to return this morning. I was told that it would street for around $6,000 as well. I also saw the Cinetron and was told that although they had announced an MSRP of $6,000 at CES, it might have to come out at $7,000 - $7,500 MSRP to make their (potential) dealers happy.

I had not read this thread to know to ask about whether it was a two piece or one piece unit, but I will check today when I head back over there. Both booths were showing Phantom of the Opera on HD-DVD and it looked great (even if Gerard Butler cannot sing).

/carmi

I spent about 2 hours at the show yesterday, and I plan to return this morning. I was told that it would street for around $6,000 as well. I also saw the Cinetron and was told that although they had announced an MSRP of $6,000 at CES, it might have to come out at $7,000 - $7,500 MSRP to make their (potential) dealers happy.

I had not read this thread to know to ask about whether it was a two piece or one piece unit, but I will check today when I head back over there. Both booths were showing Phantom of the Opera on HD-DVD and it looked great (even if Gerard Butler cannot sing).

/carmi

If you don't mind can you see if you can get final specs?

Joe

If you don't mind can you see if you can get final specs?

Joe

Here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0293508/) are the final specs on the movie, or did you mean the projector? :-) Will check when I head back there.

/carmi

Here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0293508/) are the final specs on the movie, or did you mean the projector? :-) Will check when I head back there.

/carmi

Please do so. I am particular interested in throw and offset.

Thanks much!
_____
Axel

Here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0293508/) are the final specs on the movie, or did you mean the projector? :-) Will check when I head back there.

/carmi

LOL, what a funny guy :D

Joe

Hi

Maybe the price should be in pounds UK has no Euro.
Then it wil be 6000p = aboud 9000€

Rob

It looked like it was the US press release as it was in .pdf format, so the orice is probably correct in US Dollars. Normally I would convert $ to £ and add VAT for a rough UK price, but I think Optoma released the UK H77 at a competative price which was less than the calculation I'd normally use. That was retail and not street though, but it did retail for less.

Gary

This is frustrating that noone is reviewing this projector on this forum after two days of showing. I guess there are not many AVSers attending the show. I am spoiled by how quick we get info about Cedia and CES. Personally, I don't care if it is $8000 if everything is as good or better than what most DLP lovers on this forum believe. I also find it hard to believe that this projector will street for 6K with the two box solution, but it will be nice if it does. My situation can work without lens shift.

Randall,

Infocomm is a very interesting show. If there was one show a year, you could describe as Audio Visual Science it would be that show, BUT it really isn't an HT show (doesn't bother me but that isn't the focus)

Back when companies would compete in the "Projector Shootout", Infocomm was THE show to go to. How projector A did against projector B could easilly make or break a company. Some companies didn't like the competition so starting with Sony in 2000, many started pulling out. The last shootout was in 2001.

95% of the projector manufacturers there make low-margin high-volume business projectors, but some of them also make HT projectors. The other cool thing is the companies attending that do make HT projector forget that they are supposed to charge an arm and a leg for them. If an HT projector is announced at Infocomm, it almost always carries a jaw-dropping price (somehow they forget they're supposed to charge big bucks HT models.) CEDIA is the other extreme, if something gets announced there it usually comes with serious sticker shock (how much is that 1-chip Marantz again?).

You wont find Marantz, Runco, DWIN etc at Infocomm and booth babes have been replaced by the actual engineers. Its that type of show.

If I could justify it, I would go every year.

-Mr. Wigggles

I know it's beating a dead horse but I'll say it again in case Optoma, or BenQ, or Samsung, or whoever is reading: bring out a 1080p pj with slightly shorter throw (or make different throws optional), lower offset and, ideally, lens-shift as soon as possible, please.

I'd likely be emailing Jason now to sign me up for a power-buy had the HD81 included these features.

Dan

Thanks for the interesting info Mr. Wigggles. Guess that explains why we aren't getting any reports or reviews back.

I know it's beating a dead horse but I'll say it again in case Optoma, or BenQ, or Samsung, or whoever is reading: bring out a 1080p pj with slightly shorter throw (or make different throws optional), lower offset and, ideally, lens-shift as soon as possible, please.

I'd likely be emailing Jason now to sign me up for a power-buy had the HD81 included these features.

Dan

Short throw is not the best for CH setup or retro screens. I hate short throw projectors, it puts the projector in front of you most of the time ... unless you call a closet your theater room.

k

Short throw is not the best for CH setup or retro screens. I hate short throw projectors, it puts the projector in front of you most of the time ... unless you call a closet your theater room.

k

Sure, go ahead and make fun of all of us closet videophiles. :)

Joe

Here are my notes from seeing an HD81 demonstrated twice and from talking to several Optoma Technology staff, as well as typing information from their brochure.


First on price, I was told by several different staff that it would be $6,000 list. That includes both an HD81 and its associated scaler.

From their brochure:

Display technology: single 0.95" DarkChip3 DLP Technology
Brightness (Typical): 1400 Lumens with a 300W Lamp and 5-Step Output Control
Resolution: 1920x1080
Image Scaler: Gennum VXP Solutions with 1080i HD De-Interlacing and Color Management
Color Management: Studio-grade CMS, 10-Step Gamma Enhancement, RGBCYM 6 Color, 15-Region Adjust.
Video Compatibility: NTSC, PAL, SECAM, HDTV (720p, 1080i), EDTV (480p), SDTV (480i)
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
I/O Connections: 3 HDMI + External HDMI Expansion
2 RGBHV (BNC), 2 RCA Component, one VGA (RGB/YPrdPB/SCART) 2 RS232, 2 12-volt triggers and 1 IR extender.

Contrast ratio: 6000:1 (true full on/off)

CEDIA: ISF CCC Certifications

You saw this twice? How was the PQ? Are you going to buy it?

I know it's beating a dead horse but I'll say it again in case Optoma, or BenQ, or Samsung, or whoever is reading: bring out a 1080p pj with slightly shorter throw (or make different throws optional),

yea pls! Ruby'ish 1.4 is gd! Otherwise it will seriously need big real estate to have a big screen. I can live with whatever offset, but not the throw.

btw I heard rumours that Infocus may come out with a 1080 1 chip that offers either short/long throw lens as options. Hope it's true.

MrWigggles: yea I remember the 1st time I went to Infocomm, and I saw that PJ shootout. It's really impressive: at least 40 plus PJs lined up in a big convention hall. For that shootout, a bright "light-cannon" can be spotted immediately when u enter the hall!

You wont find Marantz, Runco, DWIN etc at Infocomm and booth babes have been replaced by the actual engineers. Its that type of show.

If I could justify it, I would go every year.

-Mr. Wigggles


There were still some booth babes to look at.:)

I didn't see this pj, so I can't comment on it. I will say that the TI demo of there new 1080p Dynamic Black was impressive. The booth babe said 20000 to 1 on/off. I could believe it. It may be worth waiting for. Don't ask Darin about this as he was more interested in the movie.:)

Ericglo

Here are my notes from seeing an HD81 demonstrated twice and from talking to several Optoma Technology staff, as well as typing information from their brochure.


First on price, I was told by several different staff that it would be $6,000 list. That includes both an HD81 and its associated scaler.

From their brochure:

Display technology: single 0.95" DarkChip3 DLP Technology
Brightness (Typical): 1400 Lumens with a 300W Lamp and 5-Step Output Control
Resolution: 1920x1080
Color Management: Studio-grade CMS, 10-Step Gamma Enhancement, RGBCYM 6 Color, 15-Region Adjust.
Video Compatibility: NTSC, PAL, SECAM, HDTV (720p, 1080i), EDTV (480p), SDTV (480i)
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
I/O Connections: 3 HDMI + External HDMI Expansion
2 RGBHV (BNC), 2 RCA Component, one VGA (RGB/YPrdPB/SCART) 2 RS232, 2 12-volt triggers and 1 I.



CEDIA: ISF CCC Certifications

Tom,

What about final throw and offset numbers?

Joe

Carmi [Ed],

What about final throw and offset numbers?

Joe

Did not get them and they are not in the brochure.

/carmi

You saw this twice? How was the PQ? Are you going to buy it?

I saw it three times, twice yesterday and once on thursday. I am not ready to decide if I am going to buy it until CEDIA. I want to see how good Panasonic's 1080 replacement for their AE900U looks (Panasonic said it would cost around $3,500 list) as well as check out Cinetron's final HD900.

I think it looked good over all.

/carmi

Does the PJ itself have an HDMI input or is it some proprietary connection back to the scaler? (Apologies if this was already dicsussed earlier in the thread.)


You said $6k LIST right? :eek:

If these reports of a $6k MSRP are correct, that is astonishingly good news, especially when there are comparable scalers which sell for $3k by themselves. People keep talking about the Ruby value equation, which is good, but this projector combo has a scaler which should well outperform the built-in processing in a Ruby. If all the positive reports of the PQ of the combo, and this low price bear fruit in the final production version, I will definitely be rummaging through the garage/attic and selling some stuff to get the funds for this baby!

If these reports of a $6k MSRP are correct, that is astonishingly good news, especially when there are comparable scalers which sell for $3k by themselves. People keep talking about the Ruby value equation, which is good, but this projector combo has a scaler which should well outperform the built-in processing in a Ruby. If all the positive reports of the PQ of the combo, and this low price bear fruit in the final production version, I will definitely be rummaging through the garage/attic and selling some stuff to get the funds for this baby!

Does anyone know if there will be an AVS PowerBuy?

I'll take one of the VPI-Aries turntables you got stored up in that garage. Nothing bothers me this week, I snagged two pairs of VMPS Tower speakers at $400 a pair and I couldn't be happier.

Now back to the TV talk. $5999 is a thousand less that I thought the street would be. Anyone know what the DVDO VP30 streets for? Because this is what the Optoma Gennum box will street for separately. I could use one. It has a digital out, HDMI I think.

Does anyone know if there will be an AVS PowerBuy?

Jason is taking names. Send him an email.

Joe

I'll take one of the VPI-Aries turntables you got stored up in that garage. Nothing bothers me this week, I snagged two pairs of VMPS Tower speakers at $400 a pair and I couldn't be happier.

Now back to the TV talk. $5999 is a thousand less that I thought the street would be. Anyone know what the DVDO VP30 streets for? Because this is what the Optoma Gennum box will street for separately. I could use one. It has a digital out, HDMI I think.

Without knowing how they used it there is no way we can tell what the added value of the genum part is. Its a pity but we have seen many less than perfect implemented of the genum and hqv. That stated at $5999 no doubt it makes for a interesting time until we see the first reviews. I hope optoma also made a nice scaler in that case its great value but i also hope they will allows 1080p passthrough so we can use other scalers or processors infront of it.

Daniel.

I hope optoma also made a nice scaler in that case its great value but i also hope they will allows 1080p passthrough so we can use other scalers or processors infront of it.

I would imagine that the scaler does have 1080p pass-through, but if you are going to use a different one, why bother having it in the signal chain at all? I'd think you could offload it for a few dollars to offset the acquisition price of the HD81. After all, the HD81 has a business projector's roots, so I can't imagine there is anything proprietary about the connection (standard HDMI or DVI).

I would imagine that the scaler does have 1080p pass-through, but if you are going to use a different one, why bother having it in the signal chain at all? I'd think you could offload it for a few dollars to offset the acquisition price of the HD81. After all, the HD81 has a business projector's roots, so I can't imagine there is anything proprietary about the connection (standard HDMI or DVI).

Well we have seen a few changes so indeed we are not sure now anymore if the hdmi/dvi is native in thats a option. But say you own a vp30 with the new SD stuff you might want to keep that in the chain (say because you like it better or extra sdi/hdmi) and use the gennum for HD.

Daniel.

I saw it three times, twice yesterday and once on thursday. I am not ready to decide if I am going to buy it until CEDIA. I want to see how good Panasonic's 1080 replacement for their AE900U looks (Panasonic said it would cost around $3,500 list) as well as check out Cinetron's final HD900.

I think it looked good over all.

/carmi

Interesting! I am also going to check out the Panny 65 in. 1080p plasma and
decide between it and whatever the best performance/value single chip DLP
is out at the time.... So far this one is looking pretty good...

Jason is taking names. Send him an email.

Joe

Thanks!

Interesting! I am also going to check out the Panny 65 in. 1080p plasma and
decide between it and whatever the best performance/value single chip DLP
is out at the time.... So far this one is looking pretty good...

Tony, So are you going to settle for 65" (even if it is a plasma), or are you going to go for a truly 'big screen'? I'm totally pleased with my Mits 73" dlp, but am hankering for a 100 to 120" screen, and that seems to demand FP. Now a 100" plasma would be OK (if it were affordable), but I don't think I would be happy with a 65" one.

Well, I met several AVS members at the show, but obviously they havn't posted.

I'll leave the impression to the viewers, let me state what was shown at INFOCOMM:

Demo condition:
123" diag. Stewart HD130 gain 1.3 white screen
Phantom of the Operat CH. 14-18 via HD DVD/Toshiba (so that it has bright and dark scenes)
First 2 days, the IRIS is at smallest step, step 17 and projector at Bright mode. This is set for the small 123" screen. If 135" or larger, I would open up more IRIS.
Last day, I set the IRIS at AUTO, just to see how people react.

Projector:
* Price, at the booth, sales said $8k MSRP.
* 2-piece system, HD81 comes with a Gennum-based scalar box.
* 17-step manual IRIS and an AUTO mode that will adjust the IRIS automatically according to material contents.
* In addition to Gennum, there is a dedicated video enhancer chip after Gennum that will enhance the image/color. It is default at pass-through. The demo I showed is set at color vividness +1, Edge Enhancement +1. Other parameters are untouched, as HD DVD is already very good.
* Most of the demo, I zoomed the image to about 2.1:1 ratio since I feel the 2.35:1 is too narrow. So the Gennum chip first deinterlace HD DVD 1080i to 1080p native, then scale to 2.1:1 and shown at the show.
* No BC is used, I prefer to use the dedicated enhancement chip (which I set at Color Vividness +1)
* The Color wheel is RGB/ND/RGB, 7 segment, at 180Hz, meaning 6x RGB

The first day, I set the brightness at 0, which is probably a little bit too tight, Andrea told me he thought there is a bit cruch at low levels. Next day, I re-calibrated, and the brigthness should be 3 in order to show the correct black level, so my bad! And thanks, Andrea Munti! Great eyes!

At first, I want to use normal mode of the lamp (Eco mode in terms of lamp output) since the screen is not big (123") and I feel the resulted brightness is better for 123", but the sales wanted a more "pop", so I set at Bright mode, which I think it's a little bright. Which was what was shown at the shown.

Personally, when I compare the first two days (tightest IRIS, bright mode) vs. Day 3 (AUTO IRIS/lamp), my personal feeling is that AUTO is way better in terms of dynamic range, and the 3D depth. Most people propably just watch the first 2 days, not able to see the AUTO mode in action. I would suggest any one to try AUTO mode if they buy HD81, the default is set to IRIS off mode.

But the good thing for the 17-step IRIS is that one can set at different steps at different stages of projector use to get a constant ft-L throughout. HD81 is really bright, it sure can fill up 140" or even 150" screen.

Tony, So are you going to settle for 65" (even if it is a plasma), or are you going to go for a truly 'big screen'? I'm totally pleased with my Mits 73" dlp, but am hankering for a 100 to 120" screen, and that seems to demand FP. Now a 100" plasma would be OK (if it were affordable), but I don't think I would be happy with a 65" one.

That all depends on how good the Panny image is compared to the FP image. I
am willing to settle for 91 in. or 100 in. diagonal screen for the FP...

If comparable, I will definitely go for the larger screen...

100 in. plasma is out of my budget :-)

Does the PJ itself have an HDMI input or is it some proprietary connection back to the scaler? (Apologies if this was already dicsussed earlier in the thread.)


You said $6k LIST right? :eek:


Earlier in the thread TzungILin (of Optoma) responded to a question that I had asked by indicating that the connections between the scaler and projector would be a HDMI plus a RS-232 serial cable to use for control (DB9 connections on each end as I recall).

Ron Jones

TzingILin,

"...an AUTO mode that will adjust the IRIS automatically according to material contents."

Is this a dynamic iris then? If so, what is its response time?

Thanks

Earlier in the thread TzungILin (of Optoma) responded to a question that I had asked by indicating that the connections between the scaler and projector would be a HDMI plus a RS-232 serial cable to use for control (DB9 connections on each end as I recall).

Ron Jones

Not much consideration with those of us who have already wired the theater without consideration for a serial cable! :)

I did run a pair of CAT 5 though just in case, there should be some product that would allow me to run serial over that...

Any talk of when these will hit the street??

thanks

I'd like to know what CR figures the auto iris give compared to having it manually set (the Ruby gets >3x the fixed iris CR). This is something I wasn't expecting to be featured in what is supposed to be a kind of stop gap pj until they've developed their own dedicated chassis with lens shift. Well done Optoma.

Gary

Another auto-iris question

1 In the auto mode are there more steps available than just 16 since that would be rather limiting and risk causing noticeable iris changes.

2 Will this auto-iris feature be labelled dynamicblack or is it something else?

Any talk of when these will hit the street??

thanks

I was told August.

/carmi

Not much consideration with those of us who have already wired the theater without consideration for a serial cable! :)

I did run a pair of CAT 5 though just in case, there should be some product that would allow me to run serial over that...

Yes, rj45 to db9 convertrs exist and are vry inexpensive.

Joe

Well, I met several AVS members at the show, but obviously they havn't posted. ...

Has the throw or offset changed?

Thanks

Joe

I'd like to know what CR figures the auto iris give compared to having it manually set (the Ruby gets >3x the fixed iris CR). This is something I wasn't expecting to be featured in what is supposed to be a kind of stop gap pj until they've developed their own dedicated chassis with lens shift. Well done Optoma.

Gary

No lens shift on this unit?

Well, I met several AVS members at the show, but obviously they havn't posted.

I was there the first day and the image appears washed out against an ambient light condition.

I was there the first day and the image appears washed out against an ambient light condition.

Isn't that because of the Studiotech screen?

No lens shift on this unit?

No. According to several people there is no product on their schedule (that goes out until January) that has lens shift.

/carmi

I was there the first day and the image appears washed out against an ambient light condition.

HD81 was in a darken theater room, there is no ambient light.

There WAS a big 2.35:1 demo outside the booth, facing a big TV walls from a neighbor, maybe you were refering to that image? Yes, it was washed-out, but it's not HD81, it was a dual SX+ to demo 2.35:1 1080p.

So, maybe you were seeing the dual SX+ demo? showing Training Day? HD81 only showed Phantom of the Opera.

HD81 was in a darken theater room, there is no ambient light.

There WAS a big 2.35:1 demo outside the booth, facing a big TV walls from a neighbor, maybe you were refering to that image? Yes, it was washed-out, but it's not HD81, it was a dual SX+ to demo 2.35:1 1080p.

So, maybe you were seeing the dual SX+ demo? showing Training Day? HD81 only showed Phantom of the Opera.

Huh? It says HD81 sitting on top of a piano gloss scaler.

"17-step manual IRIS and an AUTO mode that will adjust the IRIS automatically according to material contents."

Wing is a sly devil, he kept this from me all the time. ;) Dream come true (DLP auto Iris). :)

TzungILin, sounds very promising, maybe you could get those responsible for the US website to put up a nice glossy brochure on the wesite so we can all drool!

I just wished that I could see one of these before I order it... :(

Al

Well, I met several AVS members at the show, but obviously they havn't posted.

I'll leave the impression to the viewers, let me state what was shown at INFOCOMM:

Demo condition:
123" diag. Stewart HD130 gain 1.3 white screen
Phantom of the Operat CH. 14-18 via HD DVD/Toshiba (so that it has bright and dark scenes)
First 2 days, the IRIS is at smallest step, step 17 and projector at Bright mode. This is set for the small 123" screen. If 135" or larger, I would open up more IRIS.
Last day, I set the IRIS at AUTO, just to see how people react.

Projector:
* Price, at the booth, sales said $8k MSRP.
* 2-piece system, HD81 comes with a Gennum-based scalar box.
* 17-step manual IRIS and an AUTO mode that will adjust the IRIS automatically according to material contents.
* In addition to Gennum, there is a dedicated video enhancer chip after Gennum that will enhance the image/color. It is default at pass-through. The demo I showed is set at color vividness +1, Edge Enhancement +1. Other parameters are untouched, as HD DVD is already very good.
* Most of the demo, I zoomed the image to about 2.1:1 ratio since I feel the 2.35:1 is too narrow. So the Gennum chip first deinterlace HD DVD 1080i to 1080p native, then scale to 2.1:1 and shown at the show.
* No BC is used, I prefer to use the dedicated enhancement chip (which I set at Color Vividness +1)
* The Color wheel is RGB/ND/RGB, 7 segment, at 180Hz, meaning 6x RGB

The first day, I set the brightness at 0, which is probably a little bit too tight, Andrea told me he thought there is a bit cruch at low levels. Next day, I re-calibrated, and the brigthness should be 3 in order to show the correct black level, so my bad! And thanks, Andrea Munti! Great eyes!

At first, I want to use normal mode of the lamp (Eco mode in terms of lamp output) since the screen is not big (123") and I feel the resulted brightness is better for 123", but the sales wanted a more "pop", so I set at Bright mode, which I think it's a little bright. Which was what was shown at the shown.

Personally, when I compare the first two days (tightest IRIS, bright mode) vs. Day 3 (AUTO IRIS/lamp), my personal feeling is that AUTO is way better in terms of dynamic range, and the 3D depth. Most people propably just watch the first 2 days, not able to see the AUTO mode in action. I would suggest any one to try AUTO mode if they buy HD81, the default is set to IRIS off mode.

But the good thing for the 17-step IRIS is that one can set at different steps at different stages of projector use to get a constant ft-L throughout. HD81 is really bright, it sure can fill up 140" or even 150" screen.

Now that we get closer - Is there any chance for a short throw lens option or an add on lens for shorter throw going to be available. I know Optoma makes a short throw add on for some of their projectors - but i don't think it fits this projector.

Tawn

Well, I met several AVS members at the show, but obviously they havn't posted.Dang. I went to the booth the first day and asked a couple people if you were there or going to be there and they didn't know. I definitely would have gone back if I had known you were going to be there and would have loved to have seen the HD81 with the auto iris. I didn't stop back on day 3 since I had already been there on day one, I tried to hit things I hadn't gotten to, and from what I could gather from the literature it didn't look like there was a dynamic iris.

Guess I'll have to get a look some other time (maybe CEDIA). I heard these are now scheduled for about September. Is that right?

--Darin

@ TzungILin regarding HD-DVD/BluRay 24Hz playback

I consider one of the most important features regarding HD-DVD/BluRay performance the ability to take native 1080p at 24Hz and display this without 3:2 speedup to 60Hz. Therefor adapting color wheel speed for 24Hz. I know that Infocus is supporting it for quite some while now - What about the Optoma HD81???

And I second the request for some idea about the On/Off contrast ratio using the dynamic iris! Is it gamma corrected (simular to the Ruby)?

Thank you very much and congratulations - the HD81 looks like a truly terrific product so far!

TzungILin
I am sorry to be a parrot but ...
I find it VERY POSITIVE that you give the end user the possibility to chose an auto mode.

1. Is your auto mode for the iris a DynamicBlack implementation or your own solution.
2 I know a bit of other auto-iris implementations. Those go well beyond a 4-bit control of the iris setting in response to the video signal.

FWIW, I had created a small spreadsheet to help me calculate the offset and all of the matching dimensions of different screen size choices.

It helped when I was doing my "what ifs".

Joe

Huh? It says HD81 sitting on top of a piano gloss scaler.

Yes, you were looking at the 2.35:1 1050p dual projector demo, because underneath the dual projector, there is a static display stand, with the following machines:

* H31 (I don't know why they are showing it still)
* HD72
* HD7100
* HD7300 with the scalar box
* HD81 (a pearl white unit on top of a piano black scalar box)

The HD81 was the dominate display in that area, so you may mistook the 2.35:1 demo (against ambient light) for HD81.

Inside the HD81 theater room, it is so dark that one cannot see the projector or the box. So, we have a static display in lighted area for people to see. Sorry for the confusion that makes you miss out HD81 demo in the theater room!

Auto IRIS is pretty new, and still experimenting, that is why I chose to show it on the last day, and just for myself to see the differences (I've seen the same Ch. 14-18 numerous time in the first 2 days, and the difference is huge) and see whether can people detect the auto IRIS. I think that is why we have not put it formally on the spec sheet, if it does not work well, it won't show up at the final product.

Darin, sorry to have missed you, I was pretty tied up the first 2 days for meetings.

Olhson, I think to keep AUTO and multi-step manual control of IRIS is the best thing for end user as well, they can choose what's best for them. I can see the SONY VW100 auto IRIS changing too easily, and didn't like its implementation, so I've advised a friend of mine who own VW100 to keep the IRIS open for more picture punch, and better perceived contrast ratio, since the black level is already good to begin with, no need to use the auto IRIS to get the pseudo contrast. But that's just me, some may find auto IRIS quite good to achieve very good black level, be it that the image at that time is quite dim.

TheLion, yes, if 1080p/24Hz input is detected, we will show at 48Hz refresh automatically.

yes, if 1080p/24Hz input is detected, we will show at 48Hz refresh automatically.

YES! Thanks you!

TzungILin,
Sorry I didn't make it over to your booth. Is your iris like the Dynamic Black shown at the TI booth?

Ericglo

TzungILin,

The HD81 is sounding better and better. Might even be enough to overcome the lack of lens shift and large offset for me. One thing I would like to see with the auto iris is the option to start with the iris partially closed. For time to market it could even be just 2 starting positions for choices, but by having the option of starting with the iris partially closed the static on/off CR to start with should be a little better than if the iris starts totally open (depending on how open the most open position is) and that could help keep transitions as the iris closes from being as noticable. Although starting with the iris partially closed might be less dynamic on/off CR (depending on how closed it goes), it could work well in setups where somebody wants to use the auto iris for movies and things they want dimmer with high CR, but also where they want the option of going brighter when lights are on or for other things material (with fixed iris or auto iris). If you guys want to make it totally programmable you could let the user pick the most open and most closed positions for the auto iris to move between.

--Darin

Most of the demo, I zoomed the image to about 2.1:1 ratio since I feel the 2.35:1 is too narrow. So the Gennum chip first deinterlace HD DVD 1080i to 1080p native, then scale to 2.1:1 and shown at the show.

Didn't rescaling to such a close size (breaking the 1:1 pixel correspondence) blur the image noticeably?

Didn't rescaling to such a close size (breaking the 1:1 pixel correspondence) blur the image noticeably?

Ahh, that's part of the test, to see if people knows it's not in native 1080p.

Of course, you can use Native 1080p mode to view unscaled image on HD81. But I intentionally did that just to see how people comment on the image sharpness.

So far, what I've heard (sharpness, details) proved that Gennum scaling is excellent, no one actually knows that I scaled the image. Some people even thought it's from 1080p direct feed from a video server. In reality, it's Toshiba HD DVD 1080i source.

On Day 1 setup, I stored the 2.1:1 zoomed image into display format 1, and just flip between native mode and format 1, and ask sales/PM guys about image sharpness, most of them could not tell, except that one image is larger in height (losing some side info). So I decided to test the viewers with format 1. If you use test pattern, of course, native mode will beat format 1. But, in general viewing, it's hard to tell, unless side-by-side. So I was bold enough to go for using "format 1" display mode for the demo.

Don't worry, HD81 has native mode for 1080p. It just has very flexible display formats that use can create. :)

Thanks TzungILin
Unnecessary changes in iris position is a control problem. the programming might not be optimal. However that has no direct correlation with the number of potential iris positions. I can see no disadvantage in having 256 iris positions over 16.
I want to make it clear that having 17 positions for a static iris position is plenty. It sounds by your report that the auto mode is heading for inclusion in the final product.
HD81 sounds like a small miracle machine.

Thanks TzungILin

VERY good news indeed about the 24Hz/48Hz 1080p playback of the HD81 as I take it from your comment that the color wheel speed adapts accordingly!?!

Does the projected August launch allow for using the new HDMI v1.3 standard?

About the auto/dynamic iris (WHICH IS THE BIGGEST NEWS ABOUT THIS PROJECTOR FOR ME):

- Is the auto iris mode limited to the 17 iris positions like the manual mode or does it employ a (much) finer adjustment?

- Is it "Gamma-Corrected/Ajusting"???

On a side note - you mentioned the HD81 in a pearl white finish whereas there are some pictures of a (much prettier) black unit available on the internet - Which is the color of the final product???

When will we know if the auto iris will make it to production? Any ideas of contrast capabilities with it yet? Does it work like the Ruby and increase video signal/gamma as the iris closes or use some other method?

It sounds like it is working quite well if you were happy enough to leave it operational, as I would assume that if it were bad you would not have let the public see the HD81 with it. :)

Would you say it was more likely to be included than not?

Gary

FWIW, I had created a small spreadsheet to help me calculate the offset and all of the matching dimensions of different screen size choices.

It helped when I was doing my "what ifs".

Joe

I am getting an "Internet Site not found" error when clicking on your link. Is the file still available (yes, I AM registered and logged in).

I am getting an "Internet Site not found" error when clicking on your link. Is the file still available (yes, I AM registered and logged in).

It is uploaded to the AVS site itself. I think you have to do a right-click and "save target as"

Joe

TzungILin,

If it's not too much trouble would you mind responding and letting us know if there is a short-throw lens option and if the offset remained at 27%?

I have a 7 foot ceiling and am affraid that I just don't have enough room.

Thanks

Joe

Personally, when I compare the first two days (tightest IRIS, bright mode) vs. Day 3 (AUTO IRIS/lamp), my personal feeling is that AUTO is way better in terms of dynamic range, and the 3D depth.

TsungILin,

Does "AUTO IRIS/lamp" mean that the HD81 is adjusting the Iris AND the lamp output accordingly??? -> Therefor combining an Auto IRIS with your "Image-AI" tech?

I'm getting more excited by the minute!!!

TzungILin - I am surprised by your comments about the Sony VW100 and auto iris. As a VW100 owner I find the auto iris adds greatly to the PQ - mainly the black level is much darker in this position without sacrificing overall brightness (since the iris of course opens for brighter scenes).

It is exciting to hear about your auto iris in the HD81. I think the auto iris is the ONLY way that a 1080p DLP is going to complete with the VW100 in terms of great CR, great black levels, and all without sacrificing overall brightness.

I've said it before and will say it again. I love the VW100 but will trade it in a second if I can get the same level of CR, deep blacks, and overall brightness while also getting a sharper overall image.

Given that the HD81 may feature an auto iris, and definately will be sharper than the VW100 due to its single chip design, the HD81 could best the VW100 for my purposes and I'd love to see that.

Of course in my case I cannot use the HD81 because of its offset, but maybe a future model...

Speaking of which - TzungILin - are there any plans for a successor to the HD81 that will be just like it except feature a vertical lens shift option??

Too bad you and Darin did not meet up at the show - he has extensive experience with the VW100's auto iris and I'm sure could have provided some great feedback in this area.

Lets guess that lumen is cut to less than half in going from high brightness to higher contrast. Lowering the light output by two thirds is not unrealistic. If any change to the iris represents 1/17th of that I think it would be visible. I think more steps are necessary. However, Optoma might use a lamp modulation to smooth things out.

Lamp modulation and active iris control is how TI descibes DynamicBlack. I hope we get more answers soon.

Iris's obviously work to improve black level, but I'm not convinced about lamp modulation - I'm in doubt that it can decay quick enough from a brighter mode to a darker one fast enough as scene content changes occur, or is it just used in darker scenes? Does the cooling fan(s) ramp up and down with it as the lamp modulates, as I've seen this done on another pj and found the extra noise distracting. When a fan is constant it can be 'filtered out' when you're watching a movie, but if the tone changes it attracts attention.

Of course I've not seen it in this case so could be totaly mistaken, but wonder how well it works in real terms.

Thanks

Gary

"Lowering the light output by two thirds is not unrealistic. If any change to the iris represents 1/17th of that I think it would be visible. "

That comes to about 4% per step; seems pretty small to me, especially given our eyes' logarithmic response.

"I'm in doubt that it can decay quick enough from a brighter mode to a darker one fast enough as scene content changes occur,"

I wouldn't be surprised if it could respond quicker than our eyes.

There's no filament to cool; I'd guess it tracks a reduced voltage input pretty well.

Now that I think about it, someone announced a DLP which gooses the lamp drive just when the red segment is in the optical path, and that happens at least twice per video frame.

If you look at raw light output light with a 2.2 gamma, 75% stim is less than 60% of the light output of 100% stim. The real question is whether those 17 steps are linear themselves, or whether they take into account gamma. Personally, if you design it right, I can see putting in discrete steps for manual control, but would not rule out a continuously variable design with the AUTO mode.


Later,
Bill

I wouldn't be surprised if it could respond quicker than our eyes.

There's no filament to cool; I'd guess it tracks a reduced voltage input pretty well.

Now that I think about it, someone announced a DLP which gooses the lamp drive just when the red segment is in the optical path, and that happens at least twice per video frame.

Good point and great info Noah, thanks. I'd not heard of the red segment light boost before, but if that works then lamp modulation shouldn't be the problem I thought it might be. Maybe fan noise if it's ramped up for longer periods in bright scenes?

Gary

On the Panasonic AE900 my impression has been that with just the gate type iris enabled the dynamic changes are less noticable to my eyes than when I also enable the lamp modulation.

--Darin

When manufactures start using LEDs instead of lamps, then they will have total control of light modulation. Then pair that up with DI. :D Then we will be able to see contrast ratios we once thought was impossible on digital projectors. :eek:

They have the technology out now to be able to do it on lower lumen output projectors.

At work we have a photographic printer that uses a XGA single chip DLP with red, green and blue LED arrays that project the image on photographic paper for a index print at the end of the each order for premium processing product. That machine is made by Agfa and was built in 1998. And you know what, it has made millions of prints with no problems at all. Company wide we have 30 of these machines and only a couple problems with the DMD itself between all 30. I have not seen any issues with the LED arrays themselves. It uses PWM [pulse width modulation] for each array along with the individual mirrors of the DLP chip for color and density of each exposure.

So the technology has been around awhile, they just need to migrate to projectors and give us some reliability for once. Myself I am getting sick of lamps dying before 1000hrs because of lamp manufactures having so many inconstant lamps. :( At least Samsung is coming out with a RPTV model so that’s a start. Hopefully Joe Cane can talk them into using it in their new 1080P projector. :D

Dale

FWIW, I had created a small spreadsheet to help me calculate the offset and all of the matching dimensions of different screen size choices.

It helped when I was doing my "what ifs".

Joe

Joe, could you throw in a calculation for minimum and maximum throw distance? :o

Ok guys, look what I have found for you...

http://www.projectorpoint.com/download.php?id=35141

(complete HD81 brochure!!!) :eek:

Ok guys, look what I have found for you...

http://www.projectorpoint.com/download.php?id=35141

(complete HD81 brochure!!!) :eek:
Sweet, thanks! It looks like the processor has the "from receiver" and "to receiver" silkscreens in the wrong locations. I'd personally think of "to receiver" as an output. :D

That being said, the processor looks like everything I need, minus HDMI 1.3. :mad: Let's hope the pricing is acceptable, and the performance lives up to the chip.

Later,
Bill

Agreed. The receiver HDMI-connection is pretty pointless without HDMI 1.3 support :mad: It will actually break next generation soundformat compatibility.

One thing I keep asking myself is whether it will be possible to update the processor through the RS 232 port. I'm talking not just firmware updates. The Gennum VXP is an open design. You can update pretty much everything down to the scaling/interlacing algorithms used (as marantz keeps doing with its Gennum implementation).

Agreed. The receiver HDMI-connection is pretty pointless without HDMI 1.3 support :mad: It will actually break next generation soundformat compatibility.

One thing I keep asking myself is whether it will be possible to update the processor through the RS 232 port. I'm talking not just firmware updates. The Gennum VXP is an open design. You can update pretty much everything down to the scaling/interlacing algorithms used (as marantz keeps doing with its Gennum implementation).

What does HDMI 1.3 support give over the previous version (please list).

Thanks

PS. BTW this may be an 'old' brochure, the color wheel spec is not correct, should be RGB/ND/RGB? And: "17-step manual IRIS and an AUTO mode that will adjust the IRIS automatically according to material contents.", the brochure talks about only 5 step light control...

Still, nice to see something!

Would this PJ/scaler combo work with a vertical compression (VC) lens to display a nominal image ratios (4:3, 16:9, 1.85:1 and 2.35:1)?

Comments? thoughts?

Thanks

What does HDMI 1.3 support give over the previous version (please list).
Existing HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 implementations can transport 1080p60 and 8 channels of LPCM audio data over a single link cable. HDMI 1.3 will allow 8 channels of more advanced audio to be transported over that same cable (I'm sure with a more restrictive length and quality spec, though. Basically, with HD-DVD and Blu Ray, we are going to get better-than-CD sound (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD), but to transport it requires HDMI 1.3.

Since player manufacturers are expected to start chopping out onboard decode functionality, much as they did with DVDs, in order to save cost, having HDMI 1.3 now is the best way to ensure future compatibility without losing functionality.

That is the issue in a nutshell.

Later,
Bill

Joe, could you throw in a calculation for minimum and maximum throw distance? :o

I would be happy to. But how would I use the throw numbers in calculations? I am a little confused.

Joe

quick question to anyone that saw the demo at the show and has seen a good Ruby setup:
How was the brightness compared to the Ruby? I compared the Ruby to the Sim2 C3X and the 3 chipper just popped off the screen. I know the H81 is not a 3 chipper, but I was wondering if the image "popped" of the screen or not.

What does HDMI 1.3 support give over the previous version (please list).

Thanks

PS. BTW this may be an 'old' brochure, the color wheel spec is not correct, should be RGB/ND/RGB? And: "17-step manual IRIS and an AUTO mode that will adjust the IRIS automatically according to material contents.", the brochure talks about only 5 step light control...

Still, nice to see something!

1) HDMI receiver passthrough supporting next generation soundformats (DD TrueHD, DTS MA HD)
2) Improved HDMI/HDCP handshake with other upcoming HDMI 1.3 devices

Existing HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 implementations can transport 1080p60 and 8 channels of LPCM audio data over a single link cable. HDMI 1.3 will allow 8 channels of more advanced audio to be transported over that same cable (I'm sure with a more restrictive length and quality spec, though. Basically, with HD-DVD and Blu Ray, we are going to get better-than-CD sound (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD), but to transport it requires HDMI 1.3.

Since player manufacturers are expected to start chopping out onboard decode functionality, much as they did with DVDs, in order to save cost, having HDMI 1.3 now is the best way to ensure future compatibility without losing functionality.

That is the issue in a nutshell.

Later,
Bill

Thanks Bill, I understand what it can do for audio, but since this is going to be used to switch video through the scaler it won't really affect the video portion of your setup.

But for the audio loop, hmm I would hope that that portion would be sent back to the 'AV Receiver' unchanged much like an electronic switch. From the "Lion's" post above this would not appear to be the case?

Anything on the Gennum site about this?

But for the audio loop, hmm I would hope that that portion would be sent back to the 'AV Receiver' unchanged much like an electronic switch.
It can't do this without HDMI 1.3 - not enough bandwidth.

It can't do this without HDMI 1.3 - not enough bandwidth.For stuff that is decoded to PCM in the player (like DD TruHD 5.1 eventually) or stuff that is already encoded in lossless without these formats (like with the initial BluRay titles) I don't think this will have any problem. For decoding in the receiver I could see it being an issue.

--Darin

I noticed in the new HD81 brochure on page 2 the statement "Easy Installation with only one cable from the image enhancement processor to the 1080p display" (this single cable feature is also discussed on page 3). This does not agree with previous information, from Jan. 2006 where both a HDMI cable and a Serial (RS-232) cable were required. I do note that on page 3 of the brochure the processor is listed as having "2x RS232" inputs (perhaps just for inputing firmware updates or for connection to an external control processor?). I'm sure that several forum members would be interested to know if there has been a change in the required connections between the processor and projector or if the brochure is incorrect.

Ron Jones
www.dtvmax.com

It can't do this without HDMI 1.3 - not enough bandwidth.

You sure this is a bandwidth issue? AFAIK, the HDM 1.3 spec will not require a new, higher bandwidth, HDMI cable. HDMI 1.3 adds the native HD audio formats to the HDMI spec. However, this may not be because of bandwidth, it may be simply a spec upgrade so that users can be assured that the devices on either ends of the chain support the same technology.

I noticed in the new HD81 brochure on page 2 the statement "Easy Installation with only one cable from the image enhancement processor to the 1080p display" (this single cable feature is also discussed on page 3). This does not agree with previous information, from Jan. 2006 where both a HDMI cable and a Serial (RS-232) cable were required. I do note that on page 3 of the brochure the processor is listed as having "2x RS232" inputs (perhaps just for inputing firmware updates or for connection to an external control processor?). I'm sure that several forum members would be interested to know if there has been a change in the required connections between the processor and projector or if the brochure is incorrect.

Ron Jones
www.dtvmax.com

I noticed the same thing, and am glad optoma is utilizing a single HDMI cable to carry the entirety of the required signal. IIRC, HDMI has always been able to carry 'remote control' signals along with audio and video. I dont see why Optoma would have needed to resort to a serial cable to carry any metadata along wiht the video. Not to mention that a lot of custom installations are probably not prewired with RS232...

The brochure is the one they handed out at CES - so it is pretty old (as technology goes). I'm sure there are a lot of changes since then.

Tawn

For stuff that is decoded to PCM in the player (like DD TruHD 5.1 eventually) or stuff that is already encoded in lossless without these formats (like with the initial BluRay titles) I don't think this will have any problem. For decoding in the receiver I could see it being an issue.

--Darin
Darin - The LPCM format is a lower quality than what is encoded in DTS-HD and TrueHD, unless I am completely off my rocker. Otherwise, LPCM would be the de facto high-end standard given the relative bandwidth issues (e.g., 8 channels of uncompressed LPCM should be no more than 6 Mbps, whereas compressed TrueHD ranges up to 18 Mbps, IIRC).

You sure this is a bandwidth issue? AFAIK, the HDM 1.3 spec will not require a new, higher bandwidth, HDMI cable. HDMI 1.3 adds the native HD audio formats to the HDMI spec. However, this may not be because of bandwidth, it may be simply a spec upgrade so that users can be assured that the devices on either ends of the chain support the same technology.

I'll look it up in a second, but HDMI 1.3 has ~50% greater bandwidth than HDMI 1.1/1.2.

Later,
Bill

Darin - The LPCM format is a lower quality than what is encoded in DTS-HD and TrueHD, unless I am completely off my rocker. Otherwise, LPCM would be the de facto high-end standard given the relative bandwidth issues (e.g., 8 channels of uncompressed LPCM should be no more than 6 Mbps, whereas compressed TrueHD ranges up to 18 Mbps, IIRC).

Later,
Bill

I'm not Darin, but you're completely off your rocker ;)

Guess what the output of a Dolby TrueHD and lossless DTS-HD decode is? LPCM :D It isn't of lower quality, it is simply uncompressed.

The "quality", ie the sampling and bit rates are identical by spec for both LPCM and the lossless compression codecs. Any choice to lower sampling rates for the LPCM track is strictly a space consideration.

Regards,

I'm not Darin, but you're completely off your rocker ;)

Guess what the output of a Dolby TrueHD and lossless DTS-HD decode is? LPCM :D It isn't of lower quality, it is simply uncompressed.

The "quality", ie the sampling and bit rates are identical by spec for both LPCM and the lossless compression codecs. Any choice to lower sampling rates for the LPCM track is strictly a space consideration.

Regards,
John - You know way more about this than I do, but given the Dolby whitepapers that keep getting bounced around in the flame war forums (BD/HD-DVD), I thought I distinctly remembered TrueHD hitting up to 18Mbps.

If these formats fit into the same space as LPCM, which can be carried in 8-channel over 1.1/1.2, why the push for 1.3? I must have missed something really basic about these somewhere along the way.

(or are we talking about not constraining LPCM to 20/48 or whatever it is...)

Later,
Bill

I'll look it up in a second, but HDMI 1.3 has ~50% greater bandwidth than HDMI 1.1/1.2.

Later,
Bill

I think you mean its using 50% more of the total available HDMI bandwidth. HDMI has always had the bandwidth, its just that the newer data types passing over it are requiring more of it.


As for the True HD and DTS HD stuff, the reason why they exist are because they supports high bitrates, but also very flexible channel configurations. 5.1, 7.1, 10.2, etc. You cant just send 10.2 channels of LPCM across a wire and expect it to come out right on the other end. The specs are there so consumers can be assured that both components speak the same language and will work and respond appropriately to whatever format, within the spec, is used.

John - You know way more about this than I do, but given the Dolby whitepapers that keep getting bounced around in the flame war forums (BD/HD-DVD), I thought I distinctly remembered TrueHD hitting up to 18Mbps.


If you added enough channels together you can get there. ;) Remember, youre not limited to 8.1... (EDIT: I believe however, that BR and HD-DVD only allow 8.1)

I think you mean its using 50% more of the total available HDMI bandwidth. HDMI has always had the bandwidth, its just that the newer data types passing over it are requiring more of it.

No. The clock for 1.3 went from 165 MHz to 225 MHz, so I was off. It's a 36% increase in bandwidth, which will make cable quality more relevant the more of that bandwidth is used.

Later,
Bill

John - You know way more about this than I do, but given the Dolby whitepapers that keep getting bounced around in the flame war forums (BD/HD-DVD), I thought I distinctly remembered TrueHD hitting up to 18Mbps.

If these formats fit into the same space as LPCM, which can be carried in 8-channel over 1.1/1.2, why the push for 1.3? I must have missed something really basic about these somewhere along the way.

(or are we talking about not constraining LPCM to 20/48 or whatever it is...)

Later,
Bill

You have, but it's ok.

TrueHD will peak out at 18 Mbits/second. THat doesn't mean it will use all 18 Mbits/second. It would only hit that rate at peaks. The maximum spec for Blu-ray is 24/192K/8ch, which is over 36 Mbits/second without compression.

They don't fit into the same space, they reduce the bandwidth and storage requirements on disc.

Cheers,

Start a new thread guys..........

The impact of not having a yet to be implemented AUDIO standard in your VIDEO equipment is difficult to determine, highly debatable, and certainly not limited to the Optoma HD81.

-Mr. Wigggles

PS. I have started a new thread on 1.3: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7831856#post7831856

The brochure is the one they handed out at CES - so it is pretty old (as technology goes). I'm sure there are a lot of changes since then.

TawnYou're right. Look at the placement of the projector in the brochure on the last page. It's on a shelf right behind and barely above the viewing position - perfect for my current setup. Alas, this won't be the case with the actual HD81. :(

Do we have a launch date yet? Sorry I have been out of the loop. This thread is wayy too large.

TzungILin,

Something just occurred to me regarding your previos comments about how good the scaling looked.

Does this goodness carry over to the keystone correction? If so, a lot more people (including me) would be able to use the HD81 despite its high offset.

Also, I cast my vote for a defeatable Autoiris.

Thanks

Does anyone know if the cable used between the processor and the projector is custom made for the HD81, or whether we can use our existing HDMI cable? I don't want to try and run another cable if possible.

Standard HDMI

http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/optoma_hd3000.jpg

Does anyone know if the cable used between the processor and the projector is custom made for the HD81, or whether we can use our existing HDMI cable? I don't want to try and run another cable if possible.

The photo of the processor rear panel shows a "HDMI out to Display". Although the connector labled "HDMI out from AV receiver" is confusing. It appears this is actually an HDMI input from the AV receiver (into the processor and out of the receiver). If this is the case does that mean the processor actually has 4 HDMI inputs? Finally the HD81 brochure list 2 x RS232 inputs but the rear panel only seems to have one RS232 connector.

Ron Jones

The photo of the processor rear panel shows a "HDMI out to Display". Although the connector labled "HDMI out from AV receiver" is confusing. It appears this is actually an HDMI input from the AV receiver (into the processor and out of the receiver). If this is the case does that mean the processor actually has 4 HDMI inputs? Finally the HD81 brochure list 2 x RS232 inputs but the rear panel only seems to have one RS232 connector.

Ron Jones

I bet the HDMI out to the receiver is an output - not an input, i.e. would be
helpful in sending video ( and more importantly audio :-) to the receiver...

Hey I got the Processor right here now. :) (Optoma HD3000). I hear it should street or MAP at $1500.

If you don't use the receiver for sound you bi-connect the Receiver out to the Receiver in with the very short supplied normal HDMI cable. Video is then processed correctly thru the HDMI/display out.

Native signals need to be sent to a processor. This is the first one I've tried. I had to set the Tosh HDA1 to 480i and use the component cables to see the top notch Gennum deinterlacing. When I tested 1080i from HDMI and used the HQV test DVD I could see it was the Toshiba's deinterlacing I was seeing which is Fair to good, not best.

A Sony Movie wouldn't allow upscaling on components only 480p was allowed and 480i was bypassed. Underworld Evolution, what a babe. :)

I'll try to get some pictures of the machine. It's very solid, has a heavy steel case 9.2lbs.

Where can I find this brochure everyone keeps referring to?

Native signals need to be sent to a processor. This is the first one I've tried. I had to set the Tosh HDA1 to 480i and use the component cables to see the top notch Gennum deinterlacing. When I tested 1080i from HDMI and used the HQV test DVD I could see it was the Toshiba's deinterlacing I was seeing which is Fair to good, not best.
I assume you refer here to a DVD. Not clear what you mean by "native signals."
Have you tested the device with 1080i output from either HD-DVD or broadcast?

Where can I find this brochure everyone keeps referring to?

http://www.projectorpoint.com/download.php?id=35141

Hey I got the Processor right here now. :) (Optoma HD3000). I here it should street or MAP at $1500.

If you don't use the receiver for sound you bi-connect the Receiver out to the Receiver in with the very short supplied normal HDMI cable. Video is then processed correctly thru the HDMI/display out.

Native signals need to be sent to a processor. This is the first one I've tried. I had to set the Tosh HDA1 to 480i and use the component cables to see the top notch Gennum deinterlacing. When I tested 1080i from HDMI and used the HQV test DVD I could see it was the Toshiba's deinterlacing I was seeing which is Fair to good, not best.

A Sony Movie wouldn't allow upscaling on components only 480p was allowed and 480i was bypassed. Underworld Evolution, what a babe. :)
Tom - So this only has three HDMI inputs for video, or can the receiver "in" (labeled as an output) take video as well? This is sounding like a VP20 with HD processing to me. I guess I'm just not understanding why I would want two HDMI cables between my receiver and the HD3000, when one should suffice if my receiver supports 1080p output.

This is sounding weirder and weirder.

(I cross-posted this to the VP forum, since this has more to do with the VP, than the projector itself:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=685816)

Standard HDMI
Image removed

Please link to my thread, rather than grabbing the image out of there. Thanks.

Later,
Bill

Existing HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 implementations can transport 1080p60 and 8 channels of LPCM audio data over a single link cable. HDMI 1.3 will allow 8 channels of more advanced audio to be transported over that same cable (I'm sure with a more restrictive length and quality spec, though...)

The decoded LCPM streams actually require MORE bandwidth than the compressed audio on the disc (hence the reason codecs are used in the first place...), so why woul there be additional cable restrictions as a result of this?

Or are you speaking of greater sampling rates and/or bit-depth? If so, can you supply a pointer to what 1.3 offers in that regard that's new?

The decoded LCPM streams actually require MORE bandwidth than the compressed audio on the disc (hence the reason codecs are used in the first place...), so why woul there be additional cable restrictions as a result of this?

Or are you speaking of greater sampling rates and/or bit-depth? If so, can you supply a pointer to what 1.3 offers in that regard that's new?
Yes, one WOULD think that uncompressed digital audio would take more bandwidth, hence some of the confusiong and Wiggg's request to take it elsewhere. You need 1.3 to transport TrueHD and DTS-HD, which I thought was a bandwidth issue, not a data format issue.

I suspect for the audio side, it's simply a protocol issue, not a bandwidth issue.

http://www.projectorpoint.com/download.php?id=35141


Thanks.

I assume you refer here to a DVD. Not clear what you mean by "native signals."
Have you tested the device with 1080i output from either HD-DVD or broadcast?

I should hv said interlaced signals. One problem the HDA1 locked into 480p for the Underworld movie so no deinterlacing. Scaling of SDTV at 480i from the comcast box does look very good and the same for 1080i HD. Images are smooth.

The best thing I have for testing is the HQV DVD which isn't a high def DVD. When I tested 1080i from the HQV disc I could see the Toshiba's 1080i deinterlacing was overiding the Gennum solution.

I can't remember if this was previously discussed in any of the other 930 posts but has the throw distance for the HD81 been released yet?

I can't remember if this was previously discussed in any of the other 930 posts but has the throw distance for the HD81 been released yet?

Go to post # 1.

Go to post # 1.

Yes, the original specs are there. I for one am still holding out fading hopes that those specs have changed to a shorter throw and a shorter offset requirement.

Joe

Hey I got the Processor right here now. :)

If you don't use the receiver for sound you bi-connect the Receiver out to the Receiver in with the very short supplied normal HDMI cable. Video is then processed correctly thru the HDMI/display out.


Does this mean that the projector HDMI output won't work unless you loop through the receiver in/out? In other words, if you do use the HDMI output to the receiver, must you also use the HDMI input from the receiver to complete the video loop? That could cause huge compatability problems with receivers and processors with screwed up HDMI/HDCP interfaces. It would make much more sense to simply have two HDMI outputs, one for the projector and one for the receiver.

Does this mean that the projector HDMI output won't work unless you loop through the receiver in/out? In other words, if you do use the HDMI output to the receiver, must you also use the HDMI input from the receiver to complete the video loop? That could cause huge compatability problems with receivers and processors with screwed up HDMI/HDCP interfaces. It would make much more sense to simply have two HDMI outputs, one for the projector and one for the receiver.
If I understand what guitarman wrote, it appears that the processor requires a loop back to itself if you do not connect the "Receiver Out HDMI" to a receiver. That's why they supply a very short HDMI cable. When the processor notices the loop, it sends all the audio through the one HDMI cable.

I hope this is NOT true and I misunderstood guitarman's post. Many people like to watch TV on their plasma, and movies on their projector. When catching the 10 o'clock news, they don't want to turn everything on (even if its a macro that does all the work). They just want to turn on the TV and watch using the TV's speakers and then shut it off.

So I hope the unit sends the audio feed through BOTH HDMI outputs.

Reading the manual you only use the short cable loop when you're not using a receiver for sound.

Another setup up choice.
If you have an HDMI equipped AV Receiver and wish to send the audio signal to the receiver, but utilize the HD3000 as the video source selector.

1. Connect the video sources to the HD3000.
2. Attach an HDMI cable to the (To AV Receiver) port on the back of the HD3000. Connect the other end to your AV Receiver. This ill allow the audio signal to be controlled by the AV Receiver.
3. Attach a 2nd HDMI cable to the Av out port on the back of the AV receiver. Connect the other end to the (From Av Receiver) on the back of the HD3000. This will return the video signal in a "pass through" mode.
4. Finally, connect an HDMI cable to the "To Display" on the back of the HD3000. Connect the other end to your display projector. The HD7100 :)

Reading the manual you only use the short cable loop when you're not using a receiver for sound.

Another setup up choice.
If you have an HDMI equipped AV Receiver and wish to send the audio signal to the receiver, but utilize the HD3000 as the video source selector.

1. Connect the video sources to the HD3000.
2. Attach an HDMI cable to the (To AV Receiver) port on the back of the HD3000. Connect the other end to your AV Receiver. This ill allow the audio signal to be controlled by the AV Receiver.
3. Attach a 2nd HDMI cable to the Av out port on the back of the AV receiver. Connect the other end to the (From Av Receiver) on the back of the HD3000. This will return the video signal in a "pass through" mode.
4. Finally, connect an HDMI cable to the "To Display" on the back of the HD3000. Connect the other end to your display projector. The HD7100 :)

Why not just connect the audio (via Toslink or coax) from the source (dvd player, cable stb, etc.) directly to the AV receiver, by-passing the 7100 altogether? And connect the video from the sources to the 7100's external box, via HDMI or DVI. This is what I do with my present RPTV, as do most others (I believe).

"Not using HMDI for audio"
That's the other choice, where they say to use the loop between (AV-receiver out to AV-receiver in) on the back of the Optoma HD3000.
HD3000 will be used only to process the Video signals. The Loop will allow video signals to be properly managed.

You only pickup the video scaling and deinterlacing from the (Display out port) on the back of the HD3000. Not the HDMI out to the receiver port on the HD3000.

This begs the question of how much delay is introduced in the video by the Gennum chip. Presumably the HDMI ports are for HDTV signals which will have higher latency than SD ones? I'd hate to have to configure different audio delays in a receiver based upon which signal is selected in the HD3000.

Of course, if the return signal from the AV Receiver is just a pass-through, why return it at all? Why not just go straight to the projector from the HDMI output on the receiver? You are already having to tell the receiver to select whichever HDMI port is coming in from the processor, so the return trip makes no sense to me.

Later,
Bill

If you must use the loop to get HDMI audio and video from the 3000 to a receiver and the video back to the 3000, I predict problems with certain receivers that won't send the video back. I hope it isn't so.

Why not just connect the audio (via Toslink or coax) from the source (dvd player, cable stb, etc.) directly to the AV receiver, by-passing the 7100 altogether? And connect the video from the sources to the 7100's external box, via HDMI or DVI. This is what I do with my present RPTV, as do most others (I believe).

You'll want to use the HDMI connector for audio formats that cannot be transmitted by coax or Toslink, such as 8 channels of PCM or one of the new formats from Dolby and DTS.

The Loop will allow video signals to be properly managed.

Only if the receiver does the right thing, which is a potential problem given the HDMI/HDPC compatability problems noted by many, many users.

Now that I've seen what the HD3000 can do with Comcast/HDTV and SDTV I think I'll have to have one. The video features are great also. Separate saved tunings for each signal, lots of color control features, B&W enhancement - this adjustment can make an econo bulb setup look brighter than bright mode, Edge enhancement, noise filters 0 & 7.5IRE settings, masking, all very useful. I didn't get any dropouts or sparklies with a mono cable 35' HDMI cable either. So far so good

If you must use the loop to get HDMI audio and video from the 3000 to a receiver and the video back to the 3000, I predict problems with certain receivers that won't send the video back. I hope it isn't so.


I don't believe you would have to loop the video back - you have three
HDMI inputs to the processor, one HDMI out goes to your projector
and other HDMI goes to your receiver/audio processor...

Does the HD3000 have support for fully customizable aspect ratios? I have a constant height screen and would like to take HD input from HD-DVD and vertically scale it to remove black bars from 2.35:1 movies.

If so, then this projector/scaler combo has just jumped to the top of my short list....


-Dave

Yes is has user make up aspect configurations.

Yes is has user make up aspect configurations.
How about resolutions? Custom timings and all that? Or is there only a list of preconfigured resolutions?

This is sounding better all the time. It would be interesting to see a side by side with the Ruby and see how it compares once it's finally released.

Gary

will the scaler pass through 1080p from a bluray player?i'd like to think if my preordered bluray player can output such signal(which i think is the case), that all internal video treatment that normally occur when routing video signals through the scaler of the HD81 would be defeated.

will the scaler pass through 1080p from a bluray player?i'd like to think if my preordered bluray player can output such signal(which i think is the case), that all internal video treatment that normally occur when routing video signals through the scaler of the HD81 would be defeated.

It was mentioned earlier that if fed 1080p24 it would display 1080p48 so I
believe the answer is basically yes, the only thing that would happen is
the repeating of every frame...

I don't believe you would have to loop the video back - you have three
HDMI inputs to the processor, one HDMI out goes to your projector
and other HDMI goes to your receiver/audio processor...
That would be great, but Tom's quote from the owner's manual suggests otherwise, which caused my observation.

Regarding the scaler/processor that will ship with the HD81 - will this support the ability to set grayscale gain/offsets individually at separate, adjustable IRE levels? For instance the Lumagen enables you to set any 11 IRE points you wish and individually set gain/offsets at each level - then smooths the results between points. This provides for great grayscale control - gather than having to use just one set of gain/offsets that are applied over the full 0-100 IRE range. So anyone know if the HD81 scalers supports this or something like it?

The Scaler does haves seperate white level adjustment memories for different signals. IRE choices to match standard NTSC black level vs Japans 0 black level, I just saw 0 & 7.5 I don't think you would need anything else. The 7.5 choice and the Toshiba at Normal black matched up correctly and checked out with the Accupel.

Is the loop back not simply to allow the OSD of the receiver/audio processor to be displayed?

ie VP is video switcher, choose video source - video then sent through audio processor to get OSD - video back to VP for processing?

Hi TzungILi!

I´m wondering if the Optoma will support the new HDMI v1.3. And if not could you incorporate it since the definitive specification is now set and would be a tremenous bonus to the projector for future compatibility?

/Magnus

Hi TzungILi!

I´m wondering if the Optoma will support the new HDMI v1.3. And if not could you incorporate it since the definitive specification is now set and would be a tremenous bonus to the projector for future compatibility?

/Magnus

According to Silicon Image, no HDMI 1.3 products will hit the market until late this year.

Eric

When might there be some reports on actually seeing this model that is a real and ready to ship?
Lately it's all peripheral stuff.

GUITARMAN,

It's late June now, does it come?

guitarman has been quiet lately. I hope, that is a sign, that he is testing the HD81. :cool:

guitarman has been quiet lately. I hope, that is a sign, that he is testing the HD81. :cool:


Werd.

:cool:

Yes, please! Some information would be terrific, especially if guitarman has been testing it at home. Some real world early impressions, bugs, & availability projections, anything on the production unit. Plus, is it reasonable to expect getting our hands on one prior to September?

Werd.

:cool:


Werd Up? :)

Hey guys

I have been anxiously reading about this projector to be my next one. The question now is with the HDMI 1.3 spec being released this week should we wait for a projector that used it. I know there is always something new around the corner, but their talking about billions of colors, deeper contrast, and other benefits. Just a thought, have any of you considered this?

Anyways the 27% offset seems to be fine for my room so I'm ready for the HD81 if its as awesome as we expect it to be....

Jerry

guitarman has been quiet lately. I hope, that is a sign, that he is testing the HD81. :cool:

Full release is in September, I asked today. Actually they have a few beta HD81's coming in very soon I asked if they could send me one. They'll check them over a little then I probably get one to test. They still want the make the auto iris work, of course this is whats causing the delay.

Full release is in September, I asked today. Actually they have a few beta HD81's coming in very soon I asked if they could send me one. They'll check them over a little then I probably get one to test. They still want the make the auto iris work, of course this is whats causing the delay.

Well, it may be worth it.

Full release is in September, I asked today. Actually they have a few beta HD81's coming in very soon I asked if they could send me one. They'll check them over a little then I probably get one to test. They still want the make the auto iris work, of course this is whats causing the delay.

Tom,

Do you or anyone else know if the throw and offset has changed at all from what we all talked about at the beginning of this thread?

Thanks

Joe

Full release is in September, I asked today. Actually they have a few beta HD81's coming in very soon I asked if they could send me one. They'll check them over a little then I probably get one to test. They still want the make the auto iris work, of course this is whats causing the delay.

Damn, September... really should wait but that HD6800 at Costco is tempting! :rolleyes:

No...must...be...strong! Wait just awhile...longer! :o

Hold out!!!!

:)

What will be the max VGA resolution of this projector if I want to use it sometimes as a computer monitor for gaming?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Have Dukane 9011. Iscan HD Scaler. Can't quite get them to work together! Help

Tom,

Do you or anyone else know if the throw and offset has changed at all from what we all talked about at the beginning of this thread?

Thanks

Joe

I would like to know the same thing...

Hello, i am totaly new here. I live in the Netherlands, own a store and follow the avs forum always with great interest. The things you can learn here, great!

I still project with a infocus screenplay and want to upgrade to a hd72 of h79 (if i still can get one). But reading about the hd81 makes me want more.

Is it wise to buy a decent 720p projector or can i better wait a while, save a little more, and purchase a hd81?

Many thanks!.

Hello, i am totaly new here. I live in the Netherlands, own a store and follow the avs forum always with great interest. The things you can learn here, great!

I still project with a infocus screenplay and want to upgrade to a hd72 of h79 (if i still can get one). But reading about the hd81 makes me want more.

Is it wise to buy a decent 720p projector or can i better wait a while, save a little more, and purchase a hd81?

Many thanks!.

As always it is a personal choice, but see post #968 and #969 above... :D

Next month I can get a HD6800 (HD72) for less then $2000, a great deal and definitely a step up from my Infocus LS110 but it is not quite the machine that the HD81 will be.

Our current machines have less then 500k pixels, the H72 around 900k but the H81 will shine with over 2,000,000 pixels for me the wait will be worth it, I know that the picture on the 720 units are great, but I will always know that there is more to be had.

I can see the pixels from my seating position now which is 15 feet from a 8" wide screen. I will be installing a 12' wide AT SMX720 screen for the new PJ and since my seating distance will not be changing I want the smallest pixels possible (1080).

Having said all of this I would likely be happy with the picture from the 720 machine but I feel that it will be money better spent to put the $2000 towards the H81 rather then trying to return the H6800 or worse yet selling it for a loss to get the H81.

As usual YMMV

"Have Dukane 9011. Iscan HD Scaler. Can't quite get them to work together! Help"

Suggest you start a dedicated thread in this or the Video Processor forum.

The offset wouldn't have changed, it's locked into what was mentioned earlier. I think 27% was mentioned, not too bad seems about the same as my HT1000. I like flush mounting anyway it looks cleaner.

I think 27% was mentioned, not too bad seems about the same as my HT1000. I like flush mounting anyway it looks cleaner.

Me too - I much preferred having my HT1000 mounted almost flush to the ceiling than having the H78 hanging 14ins from it TBH. Other than that, longer throw with lens shift and the pj on a shelf right at the back of the room.

Gary

The offset of the HD-81 will work well for me as well. I currently have my H77 hanging 20 inches down from my ceiling. I should be able to mount the HD-81 much closer to the ceiling.

So am I the only unlucky cad that has a 7' ceiling?

Bummer, I remember my friends basements back in New York all had low ceilings. You do know they're working on a lens shift model, lets hope it's not too far off.

Bummer, I remember my friends basements back in New York all had low ceilings. You do know they're working on a lens shift model, lets hope it's not too far off.

No I Didn't. A lens shift and a zoom would be greatly helpful.

I am debating between the hd7100, the hd7300, and the hd81(with low ceiling problems). What are peoples thoughts of going with the 7300 (I have heard it is the same outboard as the hd81) and then upgrading to the hd81 (proj. only if they separate it like the 7100/7300) when the hd81 has lens shift.

Joe

Full release is in September, I asked today. Actually they have a few beta HD81's coming in very soon I asked if they could send me one. They'll check them over a little then I probably get one to test. They still want the make the auto iris work, of course this is whats causing the delay.

Tom: is full release world wide? If not, any word on release in Europe??

Optoma Europe has a weird release plan. HD72 was almost simultaneous in EU and US but HD7100 is not yet available. I'm hoping the HD81 will be here come early fall as my upgradeitis will be in full bloom by then :rolleyes:

No I Didn't. A lens shift and a zoom would be greatly helpful.

I am debating between the hd7100, the hd7300, and the hd81(with low ceiling problems). What are peoples thoughts of going with the 7300 (I have heard it is the same outboard as the hd81) and then upgrading to the hd81 (proj. only if they separate it like the 7100/7300) when the hd81 has lens shift.

Joe

Sounds like a great idea. But you might have second thoughts on dumping the HD7100 after you've seen it. ;) I think you could live with it for quite a long time. Mabye Optoma will work a deal on the HD81 where owners that already have the scaler can save and just get the projector, I'll mention it.

I don't think the lack of lens shift is going to be problem for me, my ceiling height will be about 8.5 feet.

I do however need to find out if the VGA resolutions will be 1920 x 1080 so it can accommodate decent resolutions for computer gaming. I know that the Sony Ruby (VPL-VW100) does display VGA at 1920 x 1080, but so far no one knows, or is not answering, concerning the resolution of the Optoma HD81.

It would be nice if someone could give an answer on this, since it would stop me from buying a Ruby because the Optoma would be better for my situation (the separate box for the wire inputs...).

Tom,

Could you possibly put in a word to the Optoma people for a trade in program? :)

This is the same projector that was supposed to be out in March? lol

I don't think the lack of lens shift is going to be problem for me, my ceiling height will be about 8.5 feet.

I do however need to find out if the VGA resolutions will be 1920 x 1080 so it can accommodate decent resolutions for computer gaming. I know that the Sony Ruby (VPL-VW100) does display VGA at 1920 x 1080, but so far no one knows, or is not answering, concerning the resolution of the Optoma HD81.

It would be nice if someone could give an answer on this, since it would stop me from buying a Ruby because the Optoma would be better for my situation (the separate box for the wire inputs...).

Reading through the 1000 posts on this thread is too daunting to me but I seem to remember reading that the HD81 was to be 1080 wobulated. It would be great if Tom or someone else could give an update to late-starters to this thread like me whether or not the HD81 is going to now use TI's non-wobulated 1080 native chip?

No wobulation. It's the 'full' 0.9" 1080p chip.

Reading through the 1000 posts on this thread is too daunting to me but I seem to remember reading that the HD81 was to be 1080 wobulated. ...
From the first post of this thread:

"1. It is a true 1920x1080 DMD, 0.95","

Everyone, please read the first post of this thread it is made by the lead Optoma engineer. 99% of the first post is still accurate.

-Mr. Wigggles

I don't think the lack of lens shift is going to be problem for me, my ceiling height will be about 8.5 feet.
...
For those with short ceilings there are some tricks you can do to make the HD81 work. The following is one of my favorites. It is from post #99 of this thread.

Guys,

There are some creative ways to use a high offset projector in low ceiling or type of enviroment.

Here is an install of HT1000 in a 7 foot ceiling HT.

http://mrwigggles.250free.com/Tiltedscreentheaterfull.JPG

How did he get a high offset projector down so low? Digital keystone correction? Nope. Serious overscan? Nope.

He tilted the projector up slightly and the screen forward slightly. A 5 degree tilt will give you 1 inch vertical image shift per foot of throw.

With the specs Tzung posted earlier, on the H81, it works out to about 4 degrees of tilt to turn it from a 27% to 0% offset projector. (0% means the lens lines up with the top edge of the picture.)

Some tilt is actually visually appealing IMO. 4 degrees is definitely not too much. Here is rough sketch if you still don't quite follow me:

http://mrwigggles.250free.com/projector_tilt.jpg

The sketch is only for reference. (I free-handed it and then told the program to rotate it 4 degrees - I think it actually turned out fairly accurate)

This level of tilt is not objectionable. For the person in the chair the tangent line is still above their eyes so it doesn't look like the screen is falling forward.

Anyway, where there's a will there's a way. High offset is not that difficult of a problem to overcome.

-Mr. Wigggles

I have a 7ft ceiling, and the HT1000 worked there just fine. I would hope the HD81 would too, but possibly with a lower screen than you have now (the HT1000 was 4:3, but when in 16:9 mode allowed you to slide the image up and down with the 4:3 area like a digital lens shift).

EDIT: Wow, all those posts appeared while I was typing!

Gary

Reading through the 1000 posts on this thread is too daunting to me but I seem to remember reading that the HD81 was to be 1080 wobulated. ...
From the first post of this thread:

"1. It is a true 1920x1080 DMD, 0.95","

Everyone, please read the first post of this thread it is made by the lead Optoma engineer. 99% of the first post is still accurate.

-Mr. Wigggles

The problem is, I'm not sure what all the terminology means. I'm a computer person, not a projector person. I did read the first few pages of posts and after realizing how long it would take me to read, even with the search feature, which didn't turn up anything useful on the first page for me, I posted the question.

Does the above quote mean it will display VGA/computer at 1920 x 1080 resolutions?

Thanks

For those with short ceilings there are some tricks you can do to make the HD81 work. The following is one of my favorites. It is from post #99 of this thread.

Unfortunately, my particular room layout and seating position (which is optimized for stereo music), limits me to a recessed electric projection screen. I won't be able to tilt the screen because of the screen type. Fortunately, I shouldn't need to with an 8.5' to 8.8' ceiling. I think I can order the screen with extra length if I need to as well, I'm likely buying the Da-Lite Tensioned Advantage... I'm still not sure what gain to use yet, but that will depend on the projector I end up purchasing, which I'm obviously not sure of until I figure out what the maximum VGA resolution will be on the Optoma HD81.

Sounds like a great idea. But you might have second thoughts on dumping the HD7100 after you've seen it. ;) I think you could live with it for quite a long time. Mabye Optoma will work a deal on the HD81 where owners that already have the scaler can save and just get the projector, I'll mention it.

Tom, did you mean hd7300? That is the one that comes with the scaler.
Joe

For those with short ceilings there are some tricks you can do to make the HD81 work. The following is one of my favorites. It is from post #99 of this thread.

I remember this. Thanks for the #99 and the new copy.

The throw is 1.8 to 2.2, so let's say 2.0 for easy calc. If my screen is 10 feet wide, my diagonal is 11.5 and 5.6 high (for 16x9).

So... the offset required would be 27% x 5.6 or 1.5 feet or 18 inches. If 5 degrees of tilt gives me 1 inch offset per throw foot then 11.5 x 2 = 23 feet or 23 inches of offset. SO I would need something less than a 5 degree tilt? Am I thinking this all out right? I can do the actual calculations in more detail. I want to make sure I have the math (or is it algebra) right.

Also, I noticed that in the pic both the proj and the screen are tilted. How is this calculated? is it 4 degrees on each? Or is it 2 degrees on each?

Thanks

Joe

I see that the spec is 'officially" anounced, and that the BluRay player from Sony will be sporting it so....

I hope that it is not too late to make the HD81 and the Genum VXP with HDMI 1.3?


New HDMI 1.3 capabilities include:

Higher speed:
• HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth from 165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future high-definition display devices, such as higher resolutions, deep color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.

Deep color:
• HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.
• Lets HDTVs and other displays go from millions of colors to billions of colors.
• Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors.
• Enables increased contrast ratio.
• Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white. At 30-bit pixel depth, four times more shades of gray would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more.

Broader color space:
• HDMI 1.3 removes virtually all limits on color selection.
• Next-generation “xvYCC” color space supports 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals.
• Lets HDTVs display colors more accurately.
• Enables displays with more natural and vivid colors.

The Sony BD player is NOT going to support HDMI 1.3. Sorry.

It doesn't matter if the bit depth supported is higher. Neither the source or the display can support it. The panel drivers on these projectors are probably 8 to 10 bits tops and the source software is 8 bit for both HD DVD and BD. While HDMI 1.3 does provide a lot of room to grow, it is only that.

The Sony BD player is NOT going to support HDMI 1.3. Sorry.

It doesn't matter if the bit depth supported is higher. Neither the source or the display can support it. The panel drivers on these projectors are probably 8 to 10 bits tops and the source software is 8 bit for both HD DVD and BD. While HDMI 1.3 does provide a lot of room to grow, it is only that.

Although the following is not hard evidence, it does seem to indicate that Sony devices will support it (from Audio Video Revolution):

If you were wondering how a format like Blu-ray can launch without a player from its leader Sony, the answer is likely that they were waiting for the HDMI 1.3 spec. While the difference between a version 1.2 and 1.3 of anything seems like no big deal to most consumers, it is important to understand just how powerful this change is in the digital media transmission format. It is so important that Sony made certain it was in the Playstation 3 platform, as well as its Blu-ray players.

OMG :eek: I see what the problem is...Post # 666! ;) ha ha

I remember this. Thanks for the #99 and the new copy.

The throw is 1.8 to 2.2, so let's say 2.0 for easy calc. If my screen is 10 feet wide, my diagonal is 11.5 and 5.6 high (for 16x9).

So... the offset required would be 27% x 5.6 or 1.5 feet or 18 inches. If 5 degrees of tilt gives me 1 inch offset per throw foot then 11.5 x 2 = 23 feet or 23 inches of offset. SO I would need something less than a 5 degree tilt? Am I thinking this all out right? I can do the actual calculations in more detail. I want to make sure I have the math (or is it algebra) right.

Also, I noticed that in the pic both the proj and the screen are tilted. How is this calculated? is it 4 degrees on each? Or is it 2 degrees on each?
Both need to be tilted the same number of degrees. You don't need to lock into hard numbers at this point. You just want to get in the ball park.

When it comes time for your ceiling installation, tilt the projector up and set the zoom such that the bottom of the image fits perfectly on the bottom of your screen. Your image should have a slight trapezoid keystone shape at this point. Now tilt the top the screen forward slightly until the keystoning goes away. Viola! you're done and never had to get out the protractor.

My illustration was just to give you an idea of how it works and how you can make the HD81 work with low ceiling and still have reasonably large screens. Bottomline: if you can tilt your screen, the HD81's offset won't be that big of a problem. Honestly, I think screen tilting can actually be somewhat beneficial in terms of image quality over just keeping the screen flat. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend screen tilting to people who have 9 foot or higher ceilings; if the audience is looking slightly up, the screen will look best tilted slightly forward.

-Mr. Wigggles

Post 1000 (wow)

I have learned through the years that the projectors that don't have the most installation versatility often have the best visual performance. For its time the el cheapo LT150 had some of the best contrast, brightness, and sharpness and it never even had a zoom lens. When the LT150z came out the image wasn't quite as sharp and didn't have as much contrast.

Installation flexibility doesn't come free. super-zoom lens with horizontal and vertical offset*, take more time and money to develope and don't always generate the best results in terms of sharpness and brightness.

To me, the somewhat long-throw of the HD81 could be the limiting factor (considering most people are going to want a big 1080p image). But if you can get the projector into your room, then you could be very well off in the end, better picture with more brightness with less cost.

-Mr. Wigggles

*Bob Williams of Infocus one time explained that while lens shift on an LCD projector is easy to implement, lens shift on a DLP is not at all free and is more complicated. You can search for the exact thread in the archives; he gave a pretty good description.

Both need to be tilted the same number of degrees. You don't need to lock into hard numbers at this point. You just want to get in the ball park.

When it comes time for your ceiling installation, tilt the projector up and set the zoom such that the bottom of the image fits perfectly on the bottom of your screen. Your image should have a slight trapezoid keystone shape at this point. Now tilt the top the screen forward slightly until the keystoning goes away. Viola! you're done and never had to get out the protractor.

My illustration was just to give you an idea of how it works and how you can make the HD81 work with low ceiling and still have reasonably large screens. Bottomline: if you can tilt your screen, the HD81's offset won't be that big of a problem. Honestly, I think screen tilting can actually be somewhat beneficial in terms of image quality over just keeping the screen flat. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend screen tilting to people who have 9 foot or higher ceilings; if the audience is looking slightly up, the screen will look best tilted slightly forward.

-Mr. Wigggles

Will doing it the opposite way work too? The top of the screen is imovable but the bottom I can move back.

Joe