I won't pretend to understand the economics of the audio/video press, but I am perplexed by this apparently widespread policy.

On the assumption that the target audience for such reviews is the consumers who purchase and use these products and not the companies who manufacture, distribute, and sell them, we would be served equally as well by reading that a product performs poorly as we would by reading that it performs well.

When the audio/video press limits coverage to only a pre-selected pool of products guaranteed in advance to receive a positive review, consumers are poorly served.

Now this discussion of "reviews" is definitely "off-topic" but I feel constrained to toss in my .02

My "guess" would be that Greg got into this business first out of love for a hobby which as his knowledge grew turned into a business. For Greg's magazine to turn a profit Greg must have advertising dollars to supplement the cost of production and development or must raise the price of the subscription to cover all costs.

If you accept advertising dollars (as most all magazines do) then you must now serve two masters... which is a difficult job. Greg must find a way to provide valuable information and resource to us, his target audience while at the same time not alienating those who help pay the bills.

While I am not in any way an expert in audio/video marketing I did have quite a bit of experience with this issue working in the aviation industry. An example of the difference in styles and approaches can be seen by looking at the slick glossy "Flying" magazine, versus the "Aviation Consumer" magazine. Very different styles and approaches to reviews, but both provide valuable and insightful information.

Re 480i SDTV, my Comcast box has an override for 480i vs 480p for standard TV. So I can get 1080i and 480i signals out to get the best out of the scaler box.

Currently I am using an HD-Tivo from DTV. It has the option of outputting the signal at either 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

I would "assume" that for HDTV I should set the output to 1080i. Would you also leave the Tivo set to 1080i for SDTV or would you switch it to 480i to cut down on the number of times the signal is processed?

Now this discussion of "reviews" is definitely "off-topic" but I feel constrained to toss in my .02

My "guess" would be that Greg got into this business first out of love for a hobby which as his knowledge grew turned into a business. For Greg's magazine to turn a profit Greg must have advertising dollars to supplement the cost of production and development or must raise the price of the subscription to cover all costs.
Most reviewers get paid so little money that I am sure it is still a hobby for them.

-Mr. Wigggles

My "guess" would be that Greg got into this business first out of love for a hobby which as his knowledge grew turned into a business. For Greg's magazine to turn a profit Greg must have advertising dollars to supplement the cost of production and development or must raise the price of the subscription to cover all costs.

If you accept advertising dollars (as most all magazines do) then you must now serve two masters... which is a difficult job. Greg must find a way to provide valuable information and resource to us, his target audience while at the same time not alienating those who help pay the bills.
This is off topic, so hopefully I won't contribute to keeping it off topic any more after this reply. Perhaps you think I own or publish Widescreen Review? Gary Reber is the founder, owner and publisher of Widescreen Review. His initials are the same as mine, which creates some occasional confusion. Gary writes all of the editorials in the magazine, handles the magazine's business, etc. I'm an engineer and founder of AccuPel (a video generator company). I've written video reviews for over 7 years. I don't have any financial interest in WSR other than getting paid to write for them.

Gary has given me the opportunity to write reviews (and occasionally I write a technical article) exactly the way I choose to do it. I write for WSR because I still enjoy it, not because I want more work to do. If I don't choose to review a product, I don't review it. I'm allowed to write at any technical level that I choose, and take as much space in WSR as I want for each review. Otherwise, I would have quit writing reviews years ago. My reviews simply wouldn't be published in any other consumer video magazine because they would be too long, too technical, etc. So I meant exactly what said earlier. I don't review products that I don't think are worthy of consideration because I won't waste my time (which I value) on them. I can't say it any clearer than that. I want to use my limited time evaluating and reviewing products that I think are worthy of consideration by other video enthusiasts like myself. It's really that simple, whether anyone cares to believe it or not.

Now back to the HD81 (hopefully) ...

Tom,

Is the cooler noise audible in a silent room or if you stand 4' away?

Is the scaler worth the extra dollars (or euro's in my case...)?

Can you see the auto iris working?

Does the h81 stand out of the new 1080p crowd???

It's quiet in econo mode, if you use a set Iris it stays there.

The control box/scaler is a ton of fun and scales and deinterlaces nicely

If you try, you can detect Iris activity. I don't find it a distraction, I find it interesting

For the dollar amount it really stands out. :)

guitarman
Many numbers are now expressed for the contrast of HD81.
At this time which numbers would you like to give us for.

1 iris closed
2 iris open
3 auto-iris with time to react

I believe this months Home Theater mag has a misprint. In their preview section they show the HD81 and say the MSRP is $5,999.

I believe this months Home Theater mag has a misprint. In their preview section they show the HD81 and say the MSRP is $5,999.

Is this an 'online' magazine? If so can you provide an URL?

Thanks

Is this an 'online' magazine? If so can you provide an URL?

Thanks
Sorry - it was the print magazine.

guitarman:
have you seen any other 1080 projectors? If so, are you willing to compare it to the hd81?

I don't want to start a war here. You know I'm not the only one interested in the answer. :)

Tom/G'man

In addition to the HDMI cable is a serial (RS232) cable required between the scaler and the projector. There has been some confusing info on this over the past several months and perhaps you can clear it up once and for all.

Ron Jones

The calculator you can download from post no. 1370 will answer all of these questions.

Sorry to need to ask this, but what is an offset angle? Does it affect the throw distance? How?
As I've mentioned before, I have a very small room, only about 8.2' from lens to wall ahead, and I'd like to have a 72", 16x9 screen (distance from floor to ceiling is about 95", or 2.4 meters). Also, I´m concerned about the excessive 1400 lumens, since HD81 does not seem to have a "economy mode". I´m afraid it will be too bright is such a small room. Does this projector accept a neutral density filter on its lense?
By the way, I could not get its dimensions. By the photos I´ve seen so far, I´m assuming it is no more than about 1 foot deph (0.3 m), can anyone confirm on this? How close to the wall behind can I install it? Does it have air vents on the rear? How about the inputs and power cable? Is any of this on the rear? I´m really with no space to spare, any little inch will be significant.
Thanks a lot.

It's quiet in econo mode, if you use a set Iris it stays there.

The control box/scaler is a ton of fun and scales and deinterlaces nicely

If you try, you can detect Iris activity. I don't find it a distraction, I find it interesting

For the dollar amount it really stands out. :)


Tom, is it just me, or does it appear that you are a little less than overly excited with this PJ so far?

Sorry to need to ask this, but what is an offset angle? Does it affect the throw distance? How?
As I've mentioned before, I have a very small room, only about 8.2' from lens to wall ahead, and I'd like to have a 72", 16x9 screen (distance from floor to ceiling is about 95", or 2.4 meters). Also, I´m concerned about the excessive 1400 lumens, since HD81 does not seem to have a "economy mode". I´m afraid it will be too bright is such a small room. Does this projector accept a neutral density filter on its lense?
By the way, I could not get its dimensions. By the photos I´ve seen so far, I´m assuming it is no more than about 1 foot deph (0.3 m), can anyone confirm on this? How close to the wall behind can I install it? Does it have air vents on the rear? How about the inputs and power cable? Is any of this on the rear? I´m really with no space to spare, any little inch will be significant.
Thanks a lot.


Please I do not wish to appear rude but....

1. If you are only interested in a 72" image why not just buy a rear projection TV? It may just be me, but for me the only reason to deal with the mounting issues of a projector is for that "really big" movie theater like experience.

2. Offset angle = If you set the projector on a level table with the lens 2' above the floor the bottom of the image with this projector will start from 34.86" to 36.77" above the floor depending on the level of zoom. To picture this angle imagine a string run from the center of the lens straight to the wall at a point 24" above the floor and another string run from the center of the lens to the bottom of the image which would be as described above. The offset angle is that angle between the two strings attached to the center of the lens. In the case of the HD-81 that "angle" is 30.8 degrees with the lens all the way open (max zoom [or 1.8 throw] ) to 36.2 degrees with the lens at minimum zoom (2.2 throw).

3. If you are trying to get a 72" diag. image then you need to have the projectors lens a minimum of 9'5" from the wall, which will not work if your room is only 9.2' wall to wall. If you were trying to get a 72" wide picture (not diag.) then you would need the lens a minimum of 10'2.2"

I am sorry but the offset of this projector seems "moot" in your particular circumstances as you do not seem to have an adequate throw distance available to come close to the size image you desire. Remember in addition to the length dimension of the projector you also need to add ~6" to that measurement for connecting cables without bending them excessively. So in your room (assuming a 9'2" room wall to wall) the max image size this projector would throw would be 58.5" diag. or 51" wide.

Tom, is it just me, or does it appear that you are a little less than overly excited with this PJ so far?

My thoughts exactly. Something smells fishy... :rolleyes:

Perhaps the expectations have been too high.
Can we be but happy for a choice of a 1080p dlp with a vxp processor for under 7k$?

Tom/G'man

In addition to the HDMI cable is a serial (RS232) cable required between the scaler and the projector. There has been some confusing info on this over the past several months and perhaps you can clear it up once and for all.

Ron Jones

Yes you'll have to run the two cables. All the remote info is sent through the RS232.

Perhaps the expectations have been too high.
Can we be but happy for a choice of a 1080p dlp with a vxp processor for under 7k$?
That is a major breakthrough, which we should not lose sight of.

Tom, is it just me, or does it appear that you are a little less than overly excited with this PJ so far?

I've been busy dealing with my car. It overheated on the hwy the afternoon I picked up the HD81. Just nursed it home from 35miles away today. Looks like a bad gasket or cracked block. :(

I'll get around to better testing the HD81 a little later.

Please I do not wish to appear rude but....

1. If you are only interested in a 72" image why not just buy a rear projection TV? It may just be me, but for me the only reason to deal with the mounting issues of a projector is for that "really big" movie theater like experience.


If the room is too small a big screen TV won't fit. A 72 inchs rear projection TV probably have a depth of 24 to 30 inchs. In a 8 foot room that is way to much. A projector with a screen take a lot less space. The problem is to find the want that fit. Maybe the H81 is not the one.

If the room is too small a big screen TV won't fit. A 72 inchs rear projection TV probably have a depth of 24 to 30 inchs. In a 8 foot room that is way to much. A projector with a screen take a lot less space. The problem is to find the want that fit. Maybe the H81 is not the one.

In this space I was thinking more along the lines of a larger LCD/Plasma. Which would not have the depth to make the room shrink even more.

I've been busy dealing with my car. It overheated on the hwy the afternoon I picked up the HD81. Just nursed it home from 35miles away today. Looks like a bad gasket or cracked block. :(

I'll get around to better testing the HD81 a little later.

That's a real bummer, Tom. I hope the repair bill doesn't eat into your HD81 budget. :)

Car trouble is a real drag, specially with the first available HD81 sitting in the back seat. Sitting on the highway waiting for the AAA's was not what I wanted to be doing. :)

Interesting how I was pinned out for not being too excited. ;)

Good catch

Well......that was cryptic. :D

Car trouble is a real drag, specially with the first available HD81 sitting in the back seat. Sitting on the highway waiting for the AAA's was not what I wanted to be doing. :)

Interesting how I was pinned out for not being too excited. ;)

Good catch

Hey, I'm just glad to hear that it was due to something other than the HD81!

(not that I am happy about you having serious car trouble) ;)


Seriously, good luck with the car.

Come on Tom -- some of us are about to drop more than 60 C-notes on this toy. If there is a problem, let's hear about it. Are you not giving reports because the bulb popped?

I've had enough troubles with the BenQ PE7700 and the Samsung H710, I don't want to go through this again.

Interesting how I was pinned out for not being too excited. ;)
Considering that you have stated that you have not had an opportunity to really setup the projector yet, it is unfair to assume that this reflects on any manner on the projector. However, if a couple of weeks pass, and you still have no superlatives to describe it, then expect some serious speculation to take place ;)

A bad head gasket is a few hundred dollars of labor to replace a part that costs a few dollars. A cracked block :( ......... I sincerely hope it's the former. So, does the car trouble fully account for your apparent dampened enthusiasm, or have you already put enough time on the bulb to decide that the HD81 isn't quite all you hoped it would be? Even if you answer in the negative, it wouldn't really be all that surprising if some of us had created unreasonable expectations for this machine. Present company included. ;)

Probably I've got the most out of the previous testing I can get.

9235.1 with auto after tuned to D65k in Fixed.

Fixed 3700.1 After D65k

Open 3000.1 not tuned.

I'll see if I can do better. I have an idea to build a black chamber, sensor at one end and the lens in the other. This could give me a more accurate CR measurment.

The car is going into the Califronia retirement program, they crush it and you get $1,000. Time for a new Saab.

Sorry about your car. I know that many people who frequent this forum greatly appreciate you efforts, and I'd add my thanks to theirs. BTW, that 9-3 convertilble really looks sweet.

Interesting how I was pinned out for not being too excited. ;)

Good catch

I thought that was pretty funny myself.....

When Tom is his normal exuberant self... he is accused of being a "fan boy," or worse.

Perhaps he is simply being more cerebral this time... however it certainly is a departure from the norm.

Tom,
From 1.5 screens how would you say the Optoma compares to a calibrated HT1000? :)

Hi Guitarmen

I don't now wich device you use with Colorfacts but if you have the trichromat you can't go below readings from 0,03 ftl.
Then the meter is inaccurate.
So its better to measure close also in a white room its more accurate.

Rob

9235:1 is more like what we were expecting.
What are the corresponding brightness values for these D65 contrast ratio numbers.

Please I do not wish to appear rude but....

1. If you are only interested in a 72" image why not just buy a rear projection TV? It may just be me, but for me the only reason to deal with the mounting issues of a projector is for that "really big" movie theater like experience.

2. Offset angle = If you set the projector on a level table with the lens 2' above the floor the bottom of the image with this projector will start from 34.86" to 36.77" above the floor depending on the level of zoom. To picture this angle imagine a string run from the center of the lens straight to the wall at a point 24" above the floor and another string run from the center of the lens to the bottom of the image which would be as described above. The offset angle is that angle between the two strings attached to the center of the lens. In the case of the HD-81 that "angle" is 30.8 degrees with the lens all the way open (max zoom [or 1.8 throw] ) to 36.2 degrees with the lens at minimum zoom (2.2 throw).

3. If you are trying to get a 72" diag. image then you need to have the projectors lens a minimum of 9'5" from the wall, which will not work if your room is only 9.2' wall to wall. If you were trying to get a 72" wide picture (not diag.) then you would need the lens a minimum of 10'2.2"

I am sorry but the offset of this projector seems "moot" in your particular circumstances as you do not seem to have an adequate throw distance available to come close to the size image you desire. Remember in addition to the length dimension of the projector you also need to add ~6" to that measurement for connecting cables without bending them excessively. So in your room (assuming a 9'2" room wall to wall) the max image size this projector would throw would be 58.5" diag. or 51" wide.
Thank you, very much. I´ll consider everything you´ve suggested. Maybe I should go for a 57" LCD monitor, instead of the PJ.

9235:1 is more like what we were expecting.
What are the corresponding brightness values for these D65 contrast ratio numbers.


31ftcandles when tuned to D65 and using auto iris, no problem with brightness here. 300watt bulb/Larger chip really shines.

9235.1 with auto after tuned to D65k in Fixed.

This is likely not a calibrated number, particularly if the iris operates slower than old Sony HS51!

This has been a problem with both the Ruby and HS51. Grayscale must be calibrated while the auto iris is operating so its image processing can be accounted for!

31ftcandles when tuned to D65 and using auto iris, no problem with brightness here. 300watt bulb/Larger chip really shines.

If memory serves your screen is 80"x45" (25 ft sq) correct?

Assuming my memory serves correctly that's 775 lumens. If we assume that's the iris open brightness, 3000:1 contrast at 775 lumens is pretty darn good.

What's the 100 ire brightness with the iris closed all the way?

It's a 106" diag screen 92"x52". If I figure right that's 34sq ft and 31ftcandles times 34sq ft is 1054lumens. Also dividing lumens by sqft gives 31 ftl off the screen. Almost 3times reference standard.

The Iris at the most closed point took brightness down to 13ftc, 442lumens.

I have seen nothing on the lamp life of this unit. Anyone know? Is it the same as the EP910?

It's a 106" diag screen 92"x52". If I figure right that's 34sq ft and 31ftcandles times 34sq ft is 1054lumens. Also dividing lumens by sqft gives 31 ftl off the screen. Almost 3times reference standard.

The Iris at the most closed point took brightness down to 13ftc, 442lumens.

Wow, 1054 lumens, and still 442 L with the iris fully closed; this is quite impressive, better than I had expected. The 1054 L would produce 31 ftL on a 120" diag Firehawk.

Excellent, it looks like this pj will fit requirement number one for me: brightness (I am using a 123" diag screen 1.3 gain).

Thank you, very much. I´ll consider everything you´ve suggested. Maybe I should go for a 57" LCD monitor, instead of the PJ.

No problem...

There may be some other projectors with a short throw that would work for you, but without the 1080p capability you "may" have screen-door issues.

You might wander by your local AV store and try moving a chair in front of several of thier display LCD or Plasma units at the distance you would be in your room and see which feels/looks the best to you.......

Does anybody know if HD81 is rated for high altitude operation (6100 feet) ? Is there a special high altitude mode that one will have to use or does PJ fan automatically adjust if PJ gets hotter on altitude ?

Thanks, Davie.

It has a high alititude setting.

A question for the experts: with the iris all the way open, Tom's 1054 lumens and a Firehawk (gain = 1.25) produces essentially the same ftL's as the 442 lumens with the iris closed down on a Dalite HighPower (gain = 2.8). The brightness (i.e., ftL's) of these two arrangements is thus about the same, but which would give the better picture? I.e., the better 'real world' CR, the better blacks, detail in dark scences, etc.? Any way to know without doing the 'experiment?

1,054 lumens @ 3,000:1 CR (uncalibrated) vs 442 lumens @ 3,700:1 CR calibrated?

Well we know which one gives the better CR. :) :)

Your whitle level in Auto Iris will be 1318lumens. Run for cover :)

Bill,

"brightness (i.e., ftL's) of these two arrangements is thus about the same, but which would give the better picture?"

On/off CR will be better with the closed iris and HP, which is an advantage that Darin has pointed before.

Bill,

"brightness (i.e., ftL's) of these two arrangements is thus about the same, but which would give the better picture?"

On/off CR will be better with the closed iris and HP, which is an advantage that Darin has pointed before.

Though the FH will do a better job of muting the reflected light, right? But the HP has the advantage that when the lamp dims, one can open up the iris and get the ftL's back! The only solution I can see if to get BOTH a FH AND a HP! A fixed-frame FH, and a HP that one can pull down in front of it when desired; why didn't I think about this before?

PS: But one then has the problem that the optimum location for the pj is different for these two screens; so one needs TWO PJ's--argggg!

I'm viewing the projector on the HP screen. But with the need for a ceiling mount I figure I'm only getting 1.0gain, whites are nice and white with the HP screen. With this kind of lumen level a gray screen will look more 3D/dark but whites can have a tone to them. Trade offs

Hi Tom,

Have you noticed any difference in rainbow artifacts with the HD81? Has the 7 segment color wheel made an improvement in that area? I think there was speculation earlier in the thread that they should be greatly reduced with this projector.

Thanks!

Joe

Ok final number for the Auto Iris. Super tuned with the Accupel HDG3000 to D65k max black/ max white, 2.2 gamma (TV-gamma choice) 8327.1 sensor 4' from lens, 8660.1 sensor back at the screen.

Iris in fully closed position 3000.1, sensor again 4' from lens, ref black/white and tuned with the Accupel D65k.

End result is a stunning picture for 1080i DVD or 1080i HDTV. I like the Auto Iris setting, no messing around it caters to the types of video. Football game filmed in the daytime you're at max brightness. Night time, time to watch Dark City you swing into dark movie mode. No haze excellent blacks.

CA? on all of the many pixel grouped Accupel patterns I can see no color fringe. On the Accupels cross hatch pattern I can see a slight red along the pixel edge. Hope that helps re the lens.


Rainbows! I've seen a few with this projector. Super high brightness/contrast could be the cause. Only a few though and I'm not very prone to the problem.

Tom,

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned earlier... Is the Colorfacts sensor you are using an incident light meter or is it a reflected light meter? The former would mean you are taking fc or lux measurements by pointing the meter at the projector. The latter would mean you are taking ft-L or cd/m^2 readings by pointing at the screen.

Incident measurements take the screen and its gain out of the equation. That sounds like what you are doing but I thought Colorfacts was a reflected light meter? Or is that the "beamer" model that I am thinking about?

Thanks for your work.

-Mr. Wigggles

Hai Tom,

Would you be willing to track light output over the first 100-200 hours every say 30hours so we get a idea of the dropoff ?. Starting at 900+ seems a correct jump going to a 300watt bulbs but many will probably want to know if it follows the normal curve (atleast we can show the curve is normal).

Thanks,

Daniel.

And Tom,

Is it possible that you take some new pictures of scenes you used before with other test like the h30, h72?. For instance The fifth element, Gladiator so we get a general idea? (i'm not that educated, so i love pictures gheghe!! :rolleyes: )

Great info Tom, thanks for taking the time to take our requests and share the knowledge!


How does the HD81 display 24fps material, in 48/72Hz? Or does it make it 60Hz?


Edit: found one answer when rereading Toms review

A question for the experts: with the iris all the way open, Tom's 1054 lumens and a Firehawk (gain = 1.25) produces essentially the same ftL's as the 442 lumens with the iris closed down on a Dalite HighPower (gain = 2.8). The brightness (i.e., ftL's) of these two arrangements is thus about the same, but which would give the better picture? I.e., the better 'real world' CR, the better blacks, detail in dark scences, etc.? Any way to know without doing the 'experiment?

Not quite. Remember that HP is retroreflective and because of the projectors offset you will not get 2.8 gain on the HP.

Tom, after you completed the calibration, where did the lumens stand? Was it still around 1054? Thanks for all your help.

Light levels went down to similar numbers as with the Avia tune up.

28ft candles in Iris auto
13.5ft candles with Iris on fully closed
28ftc Iris open

952 lumens with Auto and Iris open. 28ftl off a 106" diag, 1.0 gain screen.

459 lumens with Iris fully closed. 14ftl off a 106" diag, 1.0 gain screen.

Tom,

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned earlier... Is the Colorfacts sensor you are using an incident light meter or is it a reflected light meter? The former would mean you are taking fc or lux measurements by pointing the meter at the projector. The latter would mean you are taking ft-L or cd/m^2 readings by pointing at the screen.

Incident measurements take the screen and its gain out of the equation. That sounds like what you are doing but I thought Colorfacts was a reflected light meter? Or is that the "beamer" model that I am thinking about?

Thanks for your work.

-Mr. Wigggles

I'm using the Tri-chromat sensor facing the projector lens. I could test the other way also because I also have a Eye-one Beamer which you aim at the screen.

booooo rainbows.
With such high lumens would a filter be a good match?
Help increase contrast and lessen rainbows by cutting lumens?

Hai Tom,

Would you be willing to track light output over the first 100-200 hours every say 30hours so we get a idea of the dropoff ?. Starting at 900+ seems a correct jump going to a 300watt bulbs but many will probably want to know if it follows the normal curve (atleast we can show the curve is normal).

Thanks,

Daniel.


Light levels haven't moved much yet, I'm at 50hrs now.

All this tech talk. Ok there's more than adequate light. But Tom, are you having fun yet? :)

I'm watching the Fifth Elememnet Super Bit right now. Best I've ever seen the movie look, the extra resolution carries over to a simple upscaled HDMI DVD. So not only will HDTV look awesome, DVD will look awesome also. I can also tell ANSI contrast level is huge the very good black level and super high brightness is probably the reason why. But mainly the high brightness level.

I'm watching the Fifth Elememnet Super Bit right now. Best I've ever seen the movie look

It's day time too =)

Now we're talking. :)
Thanks Tom.

Hi Tom,

First of all, thanks very much for all the questions you've been answering for us. It is very much appreciated!

Secondly, I have a question regarding how you've been performing the D65 calibration. It looks like the scaler has sufficient controls to do this, but I was wondering if the projector also exposes gain/bias controls and if so what the preferred method of calibration is? I've never owned an Optoma projector before so forgive me if the question is naive.

I've got a Spyder sensor and am thinking of picking up the CalMan software to assist with calibrating my HD81.

Thanks again!

-Dave

The controller scaler has everything you need. Not only the RGB gains and biases the controller also allows color saturation and tint over HDMI. I used 80IRE and 30IRE patterns and waited for the IRIS to catch up before I did the gain and bias changes. Easy running and surprisingly level D65k with a first time run 2.2 gamma. No need to go any further after that. Colors looks very saturated and natural like I'm use to. :)

Tom, take a look at the outdoor shots from CSI-Miami......... (in HD of course)

They should look absolutely stunning on the HD-81!

....I don't know whether or not it has been reported in this thread - call me lazy but i just didn't feel like going through every single post on a 53 page thread ! - but i just received the latest issue of Home Theater magazine and, under the section "coming attractions", there is a picture of the Optoma HD81, its specs as well as a m.s.r.p. of $5.999 !!??!!....I was under the impression that the list price for the unit was supposed to be anywhere from $8.000 to $10.000...
If this price is correct and not a misprint - taking into consideration the fact that all info listed in the magazine's section comes directly from the manufacturers - that Optoma's HD81 is to be priced for that amount, then i would venture to say that Sony's rumoured "less than $6.000" pricing for the upcoming Pearl is already affecting the market and making waves, and that Optoma decided to fire its own shot at Sony's bow....

I'm watching the Fifth Elememnet Super Bit right now. Best I've ever seen the movie look, the extra resolution carries over to a simple upscaled HDMI DVD. So not only will HDTV look awesome, DVD will look awesome also. I can also tell ANSI contrast level is huge the very good black level and super high brightness is probably the reason why. But mainly the high brightness level.

Tom, does the 7100 still appear sharper to you? how about some comparison screenshots between the two? :)

Last I heard on the price is MSRP $7999 and dealers might sell at $6999.

I haven't viewed the HD7100 since I put up the HD81. Images look very sharp and detailed on the HD81 also, more so on good HDTV.

I'll compare them some time.

If
the Sony "Pearl", ako VW50 , actually lists for $5499, and streets around 4000/4500, and considering it gets motorized Lens Shift etc,

Then this Optoma is a DEAD DUCK ?? :confused:

If the Sony "Pearl", ako VW50 , actually lists for $5499, and streets around 4000/4500, and considering it gets motorized Lens Shift etc,

Then this Optoma is a DEAD DUCK ?? :confused:
Actually, the lumen output of the Ruby is not enough to light my showroom screen, so the Pearl would come up real short. I am very close to putting an HD81 in my showroom, even though I'm a Knoll dealer (that is until Knoll gets out there 1080P unit, which probably won't happen before 2007).

Guitarman - would you say this is the best Optoma projector you've ever seen? And if so, how much better than the 7100 or H79?

If
the Sony "Pearl", ako VW50 , actually lists for $5499, and streets around 4000/4500, and considering it gets motorized Lens Shift etc,

Then this Optoma is a DEAD DUCK ?? :confused:

I don't think so. The "Pearl" hsa an even less wattage bulb than the Ruby. I didn't go with the Ruby because of that.

I am curious though, I originally thought that Sony just made a mistake with the low lumen Ruby, but now their second 1080p pj has even less? Half the wattage on the bulb? Is there an engineering problem sending more light through the SXRD? My understanding is that the panel on the Pearl is only 0.61 inches.

Joe

Last I heard on the price is MSRP $7999 and dealers might sell at $6999.

I haven't viewed the HD7100 since I put up the HD81. Images look very sharp and detailed on the HD81 also, more so on good HDTV.

I'll compare them some time.

thanks Tom - I take it as a positive remark, considering that you were used to the sharpness of the 7100.

thought for me the problem with a bright single chip DLP is rainbows (more visible with more brightness to my eyes).

Hey... I thought that the pearl did *not* have motorized zoom/lens-shift etc?

Having seen Tom's HD81 last night, all I can say is wow! When watching 1080i material like Lost or other HDTV, this is by far the cleanest looking picture I've seen yet. Motion is really smooth too. I do believe I can sit 5' away or even less from a 92" wide screen and not see any pixels or screen door for the most part - that's like .6 screen widths!! This is a very bright projector too. I could see the auto iris operate, but only when going from very dark scenes to very bright ones. I light the fact you can choose a fixed iris or auto - lots of flexibility there.

Standard def dvd's look very good too, but the advantage of 1080 resolution source material quickly becomes apparent after watching it compared to 480 dvd's.

If this machine fits in your theater ( and it appears to work just fine where ever the vaunted HT1000 would have worked ) I recommend checking it out. I just might replace my H79 with this projector.

the Sony "Pearl", ako VW50 , actually lists for $5499, and streets around 4000/4500, and considering it gets motorized Lens Shift etc,

Then this Optoma is a DEAD DUCK ??

This guy must drive a YUGO! :rolleyes:

I don't think so. The "Pearl" hsa an even less wattage bulb than the Ruby. I didn't go with the Ruby because of that.

The Pearl is speced to output 900 lumens, the Ruby was speced at 800 lumens. Note the Ruby puts out ~700 lumens d65 calibrated at min throw.
I am curious though, I originally thought that Sony just made a mistake with the low lumen Ruby, but now their second 1080p pj has even less? Half the wattage on the bulb? Is there an engineering problem sending more light through the SXRD? My understanding is that the panel on the Pearl is only 0.61 inches.
Joe
The panels on the Pearl and Ruby are identical 0.61"

There is not a huge difference in light output between the HD81 and Ruby/Pearl, using Tom's measurement

d65 calibrated Iris Off
HD81 945 lumens @ < ?? CR
Ruby 720 lumens @ 3,200:1 CR

d65 calibrated Iris On
HD81 459 lumens @ 3,000:1 CR
Ruby 370 lumens @ 5,200:1 CR

d65 calibrated Iris Auto
HD81 945 lumens @ 8,327:1 CR
Ruby 720 lumens @ 16,700:1 CR

There is not a huge difference in light output between the HD81 and Ruby/Pearl, using Tom's measurement

The big difference is whether you like the sharper look of DLP or the softer look of LCD / SXRD. HDTV is really crisp looking on the HD81. It looked fantastic. I prefer it myself. But I think I was more impressed with the way this projector handles motion. Very very clean. Now we need everything on dvd to be released on HD-DVD. Now!

Now we need everything on dvd to be released on HD-DVD. Now!

Did you happen to see any HD DVD material on the H81 over at Tom's?

The big difference is whether you like the sharper look of DLP or the softer look of LCD / SXRD. HDTV is really crisp looking on the HD81. It looked fantastic. I prefer it myself. But I think I was more impressed with the way this projector handles motion. Very very clean. Now we need everything on dvd to be released on HD-DVD. Now!

Craig,

You noted some nice distinctions on the projector versus a 720p Optoma that many of us have, the H78DC3/79. You also indicated some great results with 1080p source material.

Can you tell us what that source was and what you viewed? Was it HD-DVD?

Last, if you could, please let us know why you would consider this upgrade for yourself.
(Figure Tom's gotten enough questions, why not share the love?) :p

thought for me the problem with a bright single chip DLP is rainbows (more visible with more brightness to my eyes).

Hey... I thought that the pearl did *not* have motorized zoom/lens-shift etc?


you are correct the "pearl" will only have manul zoom and lens shift

The big difference is whether you like the sharper look of DLP or the softer look of LCD / SXRD.
I partially agree! The other big difference is in CR.

The upcomming battle will be:
Pearl, msrp $5,499; smoother film like look, higher on/off CR
HD81, msrp $7,999; sharper HDTV look, likely higher ANSI CR.

Both great choices for the consumer vs the $15k to $20k 1080p 1DLPs from Marantz, SIM, ...

Did you happen to see any HD DVD material on the H81 over at Tom's?

No, 1080i hdtv recorded on his dvr and standard def dvd's. Since not everyone has an HD DVD player yet ( not to mention they ain't got squat for movies yet IMO ) it seemed more relevant right now to watch those two common sources.

Last, if you could, please let us know why you would consider this upgrade for yourself.
(Figure Tom's gotten enough questions, why not share the love?)

Sure - overall I thought this was the cleanest sharpest picture I've seen yet, with absolutely no screen door at even ridiculously close distances. 1080i HDTV had one of the most rock solid pictures motion wise - much better than my H79. I think my eyes produce more motion artifacts. Overall, with the scaler, I think this is a great value if the prices i hear are correct. Always check AVS first if thinking of buying this.

I just lifted this from Jason Turks review of the new Sim 1080 single chip DLP projector -

See the resolution benefit, coupled with all the other improvements, is what makes this so good. Specifically I am talking about the cleanliness of the image. Most DLP’s tend to have a lot of inherent noise with them (dithering, motion artifacts, etc…). This had such a clean and detailed image, I was surprised it was a DLP.

The Optoma also surprised me when watching 1080i hdtv material on how clean the picture looked. Must be inherent in T.I's new 1080p chip !!

Craig
I think a clean look is more due to updated driving electronics for the 1080p dmd. I think they use dual DDP3021 for 1080p projectors.

Craig
I think a clean look is more due to updated driving electronics for the 1080p dmd. I think they use dual DDP3021 for 1080p projectors.

You could be correct - I have no idea. I'll just say that it is definitely a noticable improvement over any 720p machine by a long shot, when watching 1080 material.

Craig
I think a clean look is more due to updated driving electronics for the 1080p dmd. I think they use dual DDP3021 for 1080p projectors.

Yeah but then they also have 2,25 times as many mirrors to adjust ;)

I am very surprised that normal dvd would look that much better on the H81 as on a H79.

First I always thought that a sharper and better display would show all the shortcomings of the inferior source material even more. Obviously they have some very good electronics in their box or they are smart filtering a lot.

Second since the H81 has double the light of the H79 it should be even tougher too get an equal good picture (blacklevels/ CR etc.)

Too bad I can't see for myself :(

I am very surprised that normal dvd would look that much better on the H81 as on a H79.

I didn't say that a normal dvd looks that much better than my H79. It doesn't in my opinion. Maybe a bit better due to the increase in pixels. The big difference is with native 1080 source material. Big difference there.

Looks like I decided to check this thread back about the right time. I have been considering getting an HD81, and was waiting until it came out to read some reviews. I just checked back for the first time in several months, and it looks like it was just released :D ... I'll certainly have to think about picking one of these up soon!

I have room for a 151" diag. screen in my movie room. Would the HD81 be able to drive a screen that large without it being too dim? (Also, where can I find a screen that large? I did some searching before, and couldn't find one as big as I have room for.)

Sean Dudley

I didn't say that a normal dvd looks that much better than my H79. It doesn't in my opinion. Maybe a bit better due to the increase in pixels. The big difference is with native 1080 source material. Big difference there.

Craig,

Yes we all must be crazy but regarding those 1080 sources, could you expound on the improvement and would it be possible to put a percentage term in the improvement of your viewing in percentage terms?

Since many of us watch a lot of sources in 1080i (via cable/sat) and also HD-DVD this would be really appreciated. :cool:

Have you decided on pulling the trigger?

I'm not sure you need that big a screen. With the lack of screen door you can sit a lot closer to a smaller screen and get the same effect. I'm sure it would drive my 106' wide 2.35:1 screen just fine.

Craig,

Yes we all must be crazy but regarding those 1080 sources, could you expound on the improvement and would it be possible to put a percentage term in the improvement of your viewing in percentage terms?

Well, I'll try. I thought HDTV at 720p on my XGA HT1000 projector was the cats meow. Watching the same 720p HDTV on my H79 was an improvement over the HT1000, but not in my opinion a giant step - maybe a 15 - 20 % improvement at most and mostly due to more pixels. I'd have to honestly say that 1080 HDTV on the HD81 looks really a lot different than my previous projectors. It is more solid during motion, and it is very pleasing to watch. This could also have something to do with the scaler and processing that comes with the HD81 - I don't know. You can sit really close to the screen and not see picture noise or artifacts. It's a big improvement over 720p machines - period. Don't expect more than a small improvement with 480p. Garbage in, garbage out.

Have you decided on pulling the trigger?

I can't right now, but hopefully in the near future.

The big difference is with native 1080 source material. Big difference there.Remember, it's not just the 1080p PJ you are looking at. It is also source material scaled and deinterlaced by the HD3000 Gennum processor that provides inverse telecine and motion adaptive deinterlacing for 1080i sources.

The H79 fed by this scaler also looks fabulous.

Sean,
It's not officially released yet. I think Tom said a couple of days ago they would be shipping 200 units in about 2 weeks.

The following are Tom's numbers for brightness. Just figure out the Sq ft. and gain of your screen and plug in the numbers to see if it will be bright enough for you. Sounds like it should be fine especially if you go with a higher gain screen.

"It's a 106" diag screen 92"x52". If I figure right that's 34sq ft and 31ftcandles times 34sq ft is 1054lumens. Also dividing lumens by sqft gives 31 ftl off the screen. Almost 3times reference standard."

I didn't say that a normal dvd looks that much better than my H79. It doesn't in my opinion. Maybe a bit better due to the increase in pixels. The big difference is with native 1080 source material. Big difference there.

Craig, thank you very much for your review. Have you seen the Ruby by any chance? How does it compare to the HD81 in your opinion?

Can you comment on

- the quality of the lens (corner to corner sharpness, chromatic abbreviation)! I know that the higher resolution automatically give the impression of more sharpness but how is the lens itself holding up? As Greg continues to mention in his WSR articles: "Lens quality is one of the most important factors especially with 1080p projectors"

- the (subjective) contrast/black level of the HD81 compared to your H79!

- the color saturation in comparison with your H79! I consider bold color saturation and punch one of the attributes I enjoy the most about Optoma. I hope that the HD81 further improves this up to the level of the Ruby.

Thank you!

Remember, it's not just the 1080p PJ you are looking at. It is also source material scaled and deinterlaced by the HD3000 Gennum processor that provides inverse telecine and motion adaptive deinterlacing for 1080i sources.

The H79 fed by this scaler also looks fabulous.

That could be too. I have an DVDO scaler feeding my H79 720p, but it doesn't look anything like the picture produced by the HD81 with native 1080i material. That's all I can tell you! Hey - 2X the pixels is making a big difference - it's a far bigger jump from the H79 to the HD81 than from my HT1000 to the H79 resolution wise.

Craig
I think a clean look is more due to updated driving electronics for the 1080p dmd. I think they use dual DDP3021 for 1080p projectors.

Tzungilin sent me a PM with info to help me understand the PJ/processor. As follows -

"Thanks for reviewing HD81, if you have any questions about the machine, please let me know.

HD81 has a lot of unique designs, among them, the top five would be:

First --> 2-piece architecture, front end video processor, powerful I/O

Secondly --> Advanced 3-stage image fine tuning design
Front end:10-bit video processing with 3D comb
De-interlacer/Scalar: best 1080i/p video processor, Gennum GF9351
Image chip: dedicated video & color management chip Jepico

Third --> Advanced IRIS design (auto & 17-step manual)

Fourth --> Flexible user aspect ratio control

Fifth --> DLP technology:
0.95” 1920x1080 Full HD DC3 DMD,
6x RGB, 7-segment DVE color wheel (R/G/B/nd/R/G/B)
Dual DDP3021 formatter chip faster processing

Most of the feautres in Image/Advanced OSD are image features of a dedicated image/color chip, Jepico, we implement many user functions:
User Gamma --> 9 region independent adjustment
User VividColor --> 6 colors, each with 15 regions indepdent saturation and hue controls
User Edgeenhancement --> define good enhancement without edge noises or overshooting.

The three-stage image fine tuning is also very powerful, the SETUP OSD allows you to tune the input source to maximize the black and white levels, and it remembers it. Then on daily viewing, users use Image OSD function (Gennum) to do finer control per the viewing content. In this way, you don't lose out the maximum dynamic range (since it's always memorized in SETUP)"

When Craig was over I showed him some 1080i Lost espisodes which show good blacks and high brightness scenes. Feed over component cables to the Gennum processor. Also showed 1080i Deadwood series from HBOHD to show more of the projectors ability to handle dark movies. Switching to DVD I used the Panasonic S97 with HDMI and set to 1080i. We watched Dark City and The Fifth Element.

Mostly used the Auto Iris, but took a look at Iris off and Iris on at the 11th closed setting, or 2/3'rds closed Iris.

Remember, it's not just the 1080p PJ you are looking at. It is also source material scaled and deinterlaced by the HD3000 Gennum processor that provides inverse telecine and motion adaptive deinterlacing for 1080i sources.

The H79 fed by this scaler also looks fabulous.

You've tried the HD3000 with the H79? How do you like the HD3000?

"Dual DDP3021 formatter chip faster processing" Aren't these items usually inside the projector?

Craig, thank you very much for your review. Have you seen the Ruby by any chance? How does it compare to the HD81 in your opinion?

I can't give an fair assessment compared to the Ruby because the Ruby I saw wasn't set up all that good ( at the Sony Style store in NYC of all places - the Qualia was set up nicely though ). I didn't care for the one I saw though.

- the quality of the lens (corner to corner sharpness, chromatic abbreviation)! I know that the higher resolution automatically give the impression of more sharpness but how is the lens itself holding up? As Greg continues to mention in his WSR articles: "Lens quality is one of the most important factors especially with 1080p projectors"

The picture appears to be quite sharp across the screen. I believe it uses the same lens and case as this Optoma data projector - http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_ep910.htm

- the (subjective) contrast/black level of the HD81 compared to your H79!

About the same. I find both my HT1000 and my H79 to have more than adequate black levels the way I have them set up. I know the Ruby is supposed to trump everything in theory, but I find for me that a good interscene contrast more important. The auto iris is interesting. I like the fact you can adjust the manual iris with the remote if you want too. I'd probably use the fixed iris more myself. But choice is good.

- the color saturation in comparison with your H79! I consider bold color saturation and punch one of the attributes I enjoy the most about Optoma. I hope that the HD81 further improves this up to the level of the Ruby.

Color saturation looks good - at least as good as the H79. The projector gives you a huge menu with control of every aspect of the picture. So one can spend as much time as you want dialing in the picture.

You've tried the HD3000 with the H79? How do you like the HD3000? I liked it quite well. See Optoma HD3000 review and comparisons (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704674).

Things about the HD81 some people might not like -

1. When going from really dark black scenes to really bright white scenes with auto iris engaged you can sometimes momentarily see the scene brighten. Didn't bother me. Might bother you. On the other hand, having 17 manual iris steps at your fingertips, if it does bother you - use the manual iris.
2. Auto iris does make the fan cycle faster. Didn't bother me - it's pretty quiet anyway. If you have the sound cranked up at all you won't hear it. If you watch movies with no sound at all ( Mel Brookes Silent Movie ?? ) it might bug you.

Well, I've spent too much time today over at the constant heigth setups and finding out how the HD81 handles this so cleanly is a HUGE bonus. Going to make it REALLY tough for the Pearl or Ruby to win out with the processer included and me leaning in that direction. Need a few more reviews and hopefully a good viewing at CEDIA before pulling the trigger but this one looks like a winner to me. The wife and I aren't rainbow sensitive so that isn't a big concern.

Since the HD81 has to be mounted quite a bit above the screen--and is quite bright--it sounds like a 'natural' for use with a Firehawk screen, right? Conversely, it sounds like it cannot be mounted anywhere near eye-level to have optimum benefit of a HighPower (which might not be wise anway because the pj is so bright).

Since the HD81 has to be mounted quite a bit above the screen--and is quite bright--it sounds like a 'natural' for use with a Firehawk screen, right? Conversely, it sounds like it cannot be mounted anywhere near eye-level to have optimum benefit of a HighPower (which might not be wise anway because the pj is so bright).

I've come to like the High Power material, but I think you're probably correct in that it isn't needed and you won't get the full gain anyway.

Things about the HD81 some people might not like -

1. When going from really dark black scenes to really bright white scenes with auto iris engaged you can sometimes momentarily see the scene brighten. Didn't bother me. Might bother you. On the other hand, having 17 manual iris steps at your fingertips, if it does bother you - use the manual iris.
An auto iris that you can see working is not very usefull!

Manual iris closed down only gives 450 lumens and only 3,000:1 CR! Not very bright, and below average CR performance. That is a dimmer H79, with 1080p!

945 lumens with iris off is good, but at what CR? < 2,000:1?

The reality is never as good as the fantasy. :) :)

Craig
Has Optoma designed the auto-iris to close down slowly to reach bottom black level in longer low APL scenes? In addition is the design such as to increase brightness more quickly going the other way from a dark scene to a bright one.

HHFan
The brightness with iris closed is pretty good compared with the competition. This is at D65 and no white peaking. You can not argue that it is not a bright projector. With the auto-iris engaged we are talking 3DLP brightness.

Craig
Has Optoma designed the auto-iris to close down slowly to reach bottom black level in longer low APL scenes? In addition is the design such as to increase brightness more quickly going the other way from a dark scene to a bright one.

I'll leave that question for Tom or Wing to answer.

CR was 2700.1 with the Iris off but 945 100IRE is too bright really. The extra lumens become useful when the bulb wears to half life or more. Wonder how much the bulbs cost? :)

CR was 2700.1 with the Iris off but 945 100IRE is too bright really. The extra lumens become useful when the bulb wears to half life or more. Wonder how much the bulbs cost? :)

Tom, so you are saying you are getting

2700:1 @945 ANSI lumen D65 calibrated with iris off/fully opened AND
3000:1 @450 ANSI lumen D65 calibrated with iris on step 17/fully closed

both times in High Brightness lamp mode???


Is it just me or should/must the contrast ratio not increase by much more than 300:1 = 11% with the iris fully closed?

Probably I've got the most out of the previous testing I can get.

9235.1 with auto after tuned to D65k in Fixed.

Fixed 3700.1 After D65k

Open 3000.1 not tuned.

I thought these were the last contrast numbers I saw posted?

I thought these were the last contrast numbers I saw posted?
Final Posted:
Ok final number for the Auto Iris. Super tuned with the Accupel HDG3000 to D65k max black/ max white, 2.2 gamma (TV-gamma choice) 8327.1 sensor 4' from lens, 8660.1 sensor back at the screen.

Iris in fully closed position 3000.1, sensor again 4' from lens, ref black/white and tuned with the Accupel D65k.
...
Rainbows! I've seen a few with this projector. Super high brightness/contrast could be the cause. Only a few though and I'm not very prone to the problem.

HHFan
The brightness with iris closed is pretty good compared with the competition. This is at D65 and no white peaking. You can not argue that it is not a bright projector. With the auto-iris engaged we are talking 3DLP brightness.
3DLP brightness is ~2,000 lumens post calibration. IMO there is no meaningfull difference between 720 lumens and 945 lumens.

I was considering this pj for a non light controlled "family room" setting for TV/sports on a 8' wide screen. While it sounds like it produces a terrific image, it does not sound like it will be appropriate for such a setting.

Craig....... What do you mean there are not any good HD-DVD's out........

What more would you need than "Blazing Saddles?"

Mongo in all his HiDef glory!

:-)

IMO there is no meaningfull difference between 720 lumens and 945 lumens.\

945 is 35% more.

I was considering this pj for a non light controlled "family room" setting for TV/sports on a 8' wide screen.

A front projector might not be the best choice for a room with poor light control. No matter how high the contrast ratio of a projector is, if the ambient light level hitting the screen is high, the darker areas will get washed out lowering the contrast ratio on your screen.

Joe

\

945 is 35% more.
Thanks! :) :)

Of course as you well know, thats the difference between 26 FtL and 20 FtL on the 8' screen I am considering, likely 13 and 10 in 300hours or so. Most people would not be able to tell the difference between them. Neither will look like a plasma in ambient light.

I don't think so. The "Pearl" hsa an even less wattage bulb than the Ruby. I didn't go with the Ruby because of that.

I am curious though, I originally thought that Sony just made a mistake with the low lumen Ruby, but now their second 1080p pj has even less? Half the wattage on the bulb? Is there an engineering problem sending more light through the SXRD? My understanding is that the panel on the Pearl is only 0.61 inches.

Joe

Different lamp chemistries.

The Ruby's 400W lams is Xenon. The Pearl's 200W lamp is UHP.

As was already posted, this results in a higher lumen output for the Pearl.

You may find it helpful to check out the specs that have been posted. Items such as lumen output are included.

HHFan wrote:
Of course as you well know, thats the difference between 26 FtL and 20 FtL on the 8' screen I am considering, likely 13 and 10 in 300hours or so.

I thought that the rating of lamps for projectors was supposed to be the time it took to hit half bright. Is that no longer how they are specified? The link below would back me up, but this was from a quick internet search. I can tell you nothing about the reliability of the source.

http://www.cpilive.net/news_ver2_old/guides_2004/projector_guide_issue_04/Home_Buyers_Guide.htm

I would have thought brightness would follow an exponential decay with 1/2 bright hitting at 2 or 3000 hrs (likely less in a real life situation). Not true?

Since the HD81 has to be mounted quite a bit above the screen--and is quite bright--it sounds like a 'natural' for use with a Firehawk screen, right?Maybe the Grayhawk RS. Should be less visible sparklies and better uniformity while sitting reasonably close, although with less gain and less rejection of some off-axis stuff.
Is it just me or should/must the contrast ratio not increase by much more than 300:1 = 11% with the iris fully closed?I don't know the final numbers, but I have tried to explain before why a single adjustable iris is fairly limited in what it can do with single chip DLPs as far as going to high lumens or high CR. It really takes two irises working in conjunction (one before the DMD chip and one after) to get the best fixed CR in one case and also be able to go to high lumens in another. If people are interested I might be able to find it or go over it again. It has quite a bit to do with considering the white light per area going through the lens and the light for blackouts per area going through the lens. If you already have the iris shut down so that the white light going through it is uniform and so is the light for blackouts, then closing it 50% more just reduces both by 50% without helping the CR. Closing an iris before the DMD perfectly in conjunction with the lens iris theoretically leaves the white level the same (in practice it goes down a little), while reducing the black level much more (thus raising the on/off CR).

--Darin

3DLP brightness is ~2,000 lumens post calibration. IMO there is no meaningfull difference between 720 lumens and 945 lumens.

I was considering this pj for a non light controlled "family room" setting for TV/sports on a 8' wide screen. While it sounds like it produces a terrific image, it does not sound like it will be appropriate for such a setting.

Well, not quite yet. According to two different reviewers, two 3DLP brightness post calibration is under 1000 ANSI.

Projectorreview: SP777 and C3X (http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/infocus/InFocus777/performance.asp#brightness)
SP777: 804 ANSI lumens
C3X: 903 ANSI lumens (low power mode)

Jason of AVS: C3X Lite (http://www.avscience.com/reviews/projector_sim2_cx3_lite.htm)
C3X Lite: 889 (low power), 1048 (high power) ANSI

I am sure that there are mighty machine 3DLP that produces more than 5000 ANSI (1.3" 1080p with big lamp), but for consumer 3DLP 720p, post calibration seems to be around 1000 ANSI.

Of course, the upcoming 3DLP 1080p using 0.95" DMD will be a lot higher than 3DLP 720p using 0.8" DMD.

HD81 is a bright projector, we used 135" screen at CES, and it was too bright to me with the demo (after calibration). But the good thing is, it comes with 17 step IRIS, one can control the IRIS according to his screen size, screen gain and ambient light situation to find a proper SMPTE ft-L performance (betwee 12-18 ft-L). And one can adjust the IRIS periodically to get the same ft-L one desires. So you can get a "constant ft-L" in addition to "constant height" home cinema.

DLP already has very good ANSI contrast and good On/Off without using auto IRIS. LCD/LCOS using auto IRIS may claim good numbers On/Off, but the agressive auto IRIS deployed will diminish the light output, hence at any instance, the image performance is still not as good as a technology with good ANSI/Peak contrast to begin with. I think this projectiondesign webpage (http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1411) explained it well.

So the auto IRIS design philosophy for different projection technology may be totally different. Some technology may need agressive movement or tightness of the IRIS to get good black level, but it loses image intensity along the way for most viewing. For technology that is already good in contrast, it may not need such an agressive IRIS, but rather different implementation. HD81 provides a different auto IRIS thinking, and also 17-step manual for user to choose.

For small screen size, one can default HD81 to Bright mode off to have a longer lamp life, and use manual IRIS to get the desired ft-L according to screen size and gain.

For large size (like 135-150"), one can use Bright mode ON and full IRIS open to get the needed ft-L. If you are using such a large screen, you may consider a gain screen (like 1.3 gain of HD130) to boost the ft-L.

You can also try the auto IRIS feature and see if you like it. If yes, then this gives you a wide dynamic range. So when watching a movie like Van Helsing, on many dark scenes, HD81 closes the IRIS to show good black level, and open up IRIS for bright and colorful scenes.

Ohlson,

HD81 auto IRIS has its algorithm, very different thinking from competitions, I cannot reveal the algorithm, but going from dark scene to bright scene, the change of IRIS is always more obvious than going from bright to dark scene.

We were comparing HD81 to a VW100 the other day, with HD81 set at Bright mode Off and IRIS at step-10, VW100 in auto IRIS, we showed many different DVD sequences, both image are comparable, HD81 still has some edge in overall brightness and ANSI contrast, but VW100 is also a good performer as well. Surprisingly, in dark scenes (Chicago jail cell singing, HellBoy), VW100's black level is on par with HD81, only in extreme dark scene, like total darkness, VW100 does have lowest black levels of the two, but once there are picture levels in the image, the IRIS opens, the black level also raised.

When watching colorful and bright content, with both projectors set to IRIS full Open, then there is no contest. (edit: I forgot to try Alan's trick to boost VW100 lumens!)

This guy must drive a YUGO! :rolleyes:
Just for the record, i own an Audi A8 - but i don't drive, I'm being driven ;)

Well, not quite yet. According to two different reviewers, two 3DLP brightness post calibration is under 1000 ANSI.

Projectorreview: SP777 and C3X (http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/infocus/InFocus777/performance.asp#brightness)
SP777: 804 ANSI lumens
C3X: 903 ANSI lumens (low power mode)

Jason of AVS: C3X Lite (http://www.avscience.com/reviews/projector_sim2_cx3_lite.htm)
C3X Lite: 889 (low power), 1048 (high power) ANSI

I am sure that there are mighty machine 3DLP that produces more than 5000 ANSI (1.3" 1080p with big lamp), but for consumer 3DLP 720p, post calibration seems to be around 1000 ANSI.

Of course, the upcoming 3DLP 1080p using 0.95" DMD will be a lot higher than 3DLP 720p using 0.8" DMD.

HD81 is a bright projector, we used 135" screen at CES, and it was too bright to me with the demo (after calibration). But the good thing is, it comes with 17 step IRIS, one can control the IRIS according to his screen size, screen gain and ambient light situation to find a proper SMPTE ft-L performance (betwee 12-18 ft-L). And one can adjust the IRIS periodically to get the same ft-L one desires. So you can get a "constant ft-L" in addition to "constant height" home cinema.

DLP already has very good ANSI contrast and good On/Off without using auto IRIS. LCD/LCOS using auto IRIS may claim good numbers On/Off, but the agressive auto IRIS deployed will diminish the light output, hence at any instance, the image performance is still not as good as a technology with good ANSI/Peak contrast to begin with. I think this projectiondesign webpage (http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1411) explained it well.

So the auto IRIS design philosophy for different projection technology may be totally different. Some technology may need agressive movement or tightness of the IRIS to get good black level, but it loses image intensity along the way for most viewing. For technology that is already good in contrast, it may not need such an agressive IRIS, but rather different implementation. HD81 provides a different auto IRIS thinking, and also 17-step manual for user to choose.

For small screen size, one can default HD81 to Bright mode off to have a longer lamp life, and use manual IRIS to get the desired ft-L according to screen size and gain.

For large size (like 135-150"), one can use Bright mode ON and full IRIS open to get the needed ft-L. If you are using such a large screen, you may consider a gain screen (like 1.3 gain of HD130) to boost the ft-L.

You can also try the auto IRIS feature and see if you like it. If yes, then this gives you a wide dynamic range. So when watching a movie like Van Helsing, on many dark scenes, HD81 closes the IRIS to show good black level, and open up IRIS for bright and colorful scenes.

Ohlson,

HD81 auto IRIS has its algorithm, very different thinking from competitions, I cannot reveal the algorithm, but going from dark scene to bright scene, the change of IRIS is always more obvious than going from bright to dark scene.

We were comparing HD81 to a VW100 the other day, with HD81 set at Bright mode Off and IRIS at step-10, VW100 in auto IRIS, we showed many different DVD sequences, both image are comparable, HD81 still has some edge in overall brightness and ANSI contrast, but VW100 is also a good performer as well. Surprisingly, in dark scenes (Chicago jail cell singing, HellBoy), VW100's black level is on par with HD81, only in extreme dark scene, like total darkness, VW100 does have lowest black levels of the two, but once there are picture levels in the image, the IRIS opens, the black level also raised.

When watching colorful and bright content, with both projectors set to IRIS full Open, then there is no contest. (edit: I forgot to try Alan's trick to boost VW100 lumens!)


TzungILin, welcome back! Your input and comments were missed and I appreciate it that you found your way back to this thread.

While having you here... Please allow for the following questions ;) :

- What were the design goals setting the color points for the HD81? Further optimizing the brightness by going with a smaller color space, optimizing for the Rec. 709 standard or slightly oversaturating for extra color punch (simular to Sonys Ruby approach)?

- Is the HD81 firmware upgradeable by the user?

- Does your Auto-Iris imlementation feature gamma correction or is it just adjusting the iris/lamp output? And connected to that - does it cause brightness compression inherent to gamma correction?

Thank you!

TzungILin, welcome back! Your input and comments were missed and I appreciate it that you found your way back to this thread.

While having you here... Please allow for the following questions ;) :

- What were the design goals setting the color points for the HD81? Further optimizing the brightness by going with a smaller color space, optimizing for the Rec. 709 standard or slightly oversaturating for extra color punch (simular to Sonys Ruby approach)?

- Is the HD81 firmware upgradeable by the user?

- Does your Auto-Iris imlementation feature gamma correction or is it just adjusting the iris/lamp output? And connected to that - does it cause brightness compression inherent to gamma correction?

Thank you!

This is precisely why I did not post in the past months. Too many questions! :D

1. I think I can answer this question, the design goal of HD81 in terms of color points is to get close to DTV color points of CIE1931. Hence I asked my team to come up with matching coating for it.
2. I'll leave this question to official people.
3. I cannot disclose. I've already talked too much in my previous post.

While comparing to VW100 the other day, I found out by accident that I could come out with a setting in HD81 to have DLP look like a "well-tuned-SXRD"! (studying its degamma characteristics, color settings, sharpness settings, ...)

Things about the HD81 some people might not like -

1. When going from really dark black scenes to really bright white scenes with auto iris engaged you can sometimes momentarily see the scene brighten. Didn't bother me. Might bother you. On the other hand, having 17 manual iris steps at your fingertips, if it does bother you - use the manual iris.
2. Auto iris does make the fan cycle faster. Didn't bother me - it's pretty quiet anyway. If you have the sound cranked up at all you won't hear it. If you watch movies with no sound at all ( Mel Brookes Silent Movie ?? ) it might bug you.

1. Is it easy to spot or do you really have to try hard to see it?

I mean, in the heat of a good movie, does it really bother??

2. Can easily be overcome with a very simple hushbox. The h81 is close to most ceilings anyway! People with two left arms can make it if you ask me.. ;)

akasoft
I think only you can determine what is not distracting or obvious to you.

off topic
What is YUGO?

akasoft
I think only you can determine what is not distracting or obvious to you.

off topic
What is YUGO?

I know, as soon as the h81 makes its dutch debut i will go and see it....

Till that time i like to get as much information about it... ;)

A yugo is a car out of Yugoslavia made by a former gun factory, Vojno-Tehnicki Zavod (Army Technical Institute). They sell them without bullit holes bytheway... :p

A yugo is a car out of Yugoslavia made by a former gun factory, Vojno-Tehnicki Zavod (Army Technical Institute). They sell them without bullit holes bytheway... :p

To expand on this for Ohlson they were sold in the U.S. in the eighties as the cheapest car available. Lots of problems, and have left the market with no remaining support. Think 2 stroke powered Trabant and you'll get the idea.

Well, not quite yet. According to two different reviewers, two 3DLP brightness post calibration is under 1000 ANSI.

Projectorreview: SP777 and C3X (http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/infocus/InFocus777/performance.asp#brightness)
SP777: 804 ANSI lumens
C3X: 903 ANSI lumens (low power mode)

Jason of AVS: C3X Lite (http://www.avscience.com/reviews/projector_sim2_cx3_lite.htm)
C3X Lite: 889 (low power), 1048 (high power) ANSI

A technicality but I should have said ~ 1,500 lumens
WSR has the 777 @ 1,800 lumens IIRC, The HT500 has benn measured at ~2,000, several member posts have put the 777 and C3X at ~ 1,500 lumens.

I will concede that 945 lumens (HD81) is a bright pj, 720 lumens (VW100) is a dim pj! How do we classify the 360 lumens (Marantz 11S1) or 270 lumens (Sharp 12K). :) :)

Is the Marantz 11S1 really only 360 lumens?

Is the Marantz 11S1 really only 360 lumens?
According to WSR
608 lumens @ 2,360:1 in high brightness
416 lumens @ 4,020:1 in high contrast
330 lumens @ 4,020:1 in high contrast economy!

If we add Jasons recent SIM HT3000 review
495 lumens @ 2,326:1 ( 198 lumens befor service menu adjustments)

Maybe the Grayhawk RS. Should be less visible sparklies and better uniformity while sitting reasonably close, although with less gain and less rejection of some off-axis stuff.--Darin

Darin, is the Firehawk sparklie/non-uniform prone if one sits close (I will be at ~1.4 screen widths)? I thought this problem was only if the pj was placed too close; i.e., Stewart says the throw should be at least 1.6. With the lens of the HD81, the throw will have to be greater than ~1.8 anyway, I believe, so I had not thought that the 'sparklie' issue would arise with a FH. I would certainly like to know if I am mistaken.

According to WSR
608 lumens @ 2,360:1 in high brightness
416 lumens @ 4,020:1 in high contrast
330 lumens @ 4,020:1 in high contrast economy!

If we add Jasons recent SIM HT3000 review
495 lumens @ 2,326:1 ( 198 lumens befor service menu adjustments)

Wow. The HD81 is a friggin' LIGHT CANNON compared to those pj's.

:eek:

Wow. The HD81 is a friggin' LIGHT CANNON compared to those pj's.

I thought it was plenty bright myself.

1. Is it easy to spot or do you really have to try hard to see it?

I mean, in the heat of a good movie, does it really bother??

It didn't bother me, and if I blinked I'd miss it. Personally, I believe if I can scrape together the dough to buy one of these, I'd probably use the fixed iris more anyway, and tailor the setting to the type of movie. Once again, choice is good!

... But the good thing is, it comes with 17 step IRIS, one can control the IRIS according to his screen size, screen gain and ambient light situation to find a proper SMPTE ft-L performance (betwee 12-18 ft-L). And one can adjust the IRIS periodically to get the same ft-L one desires. So you can get a "constant ft-L" in addition to "constant height" home cinema.
This is an excellent feature. I had hoped to see it implemented by other manufacturers, but not all listen.

The only important feature I can think of that the HD81 lacks is verticle lens shift. Wonder how long it will be before there is a model with this feature?

Anybody have any input as to if this HD81 is bright enough for a 130" wide microperf, 2:35 Studiotek 130 in my 21x14 ft dedicated room. I'm going to be sitting 11.5 ft at the first row and 18 ft at the second row. Projectorcentral doesn't have this PJ up on their calculator and don't know how to do the math on ft-L and with this constant height setup.

Craig, thank you very much for your review. Have you seen the Ruby by any chance? How does it compare to the HD81 in your opinion?

Can you comment on

- the quality of the lens (corner to corner sharpness, chromatic abbreviation)! I know that the higher resolution automatically give the impression of more sharpness but how is the lens itself holding up? As Greg continues to mention in his WSR articles: "Lens quality is one of the most important factors especially with 1080p projectors"

One thing I forgot to mention, that really stood out on the HD81 compared to any previous projector I've owned or seen, and this probably says a lot about the lens and 1080 HDTV source material - I have never seen such sharp sub titles or menu titles from a projector - ever. It really stood out as a big difference from 720p machines. Tom was playing an episode from Lost that had sub titles on the screen and it was one of the first things I noticed. Sub titles on standard def dvd's didn't look as good of course - again, the source material is now the limiting factor.

Some usage tips about RGB gain and bias - yes, HD81 has RGB gain and bias - in the advanced menu and quite a bit more.

HD81 allows multiple sets of RGB gain and bias.
Users can have one set calibrated for 6500K for watching color movies.
Another set calibrated for 5400K for watching B/W movies and if needed another set at a lot higher brightness (trades off some color accuracy) for usage with ambient light.

These settings (and a lot of other settings) can be saved in different User settings.
3 adjustable user settings are allowed for normal users, 5 settings for ISF certified technicians. (Normal user can select all 5 settings, but 2 are locked and not adjustable except by ISF certified technician)

All these settings have dedicated discrete IR command buttons and RS232 commands to support convenient selection and automation.

RGB gain and bias of different input and different signal type can also be different. (output from DVD, VHS, PC, XBox, set top box..... can vary quite a lot)

To reduce redundancy in work, a copy function is provided to allow user to copy settings from one input to another.

Hi Tom,

First of all, thanks very much for all the questions you've been answering for us. It is very much appreciated!

Secondly, I have a question regarding how you've been performing the D65 calibration. It looks like the scaler has sufficient controls to do this, but I was wondering if the projector also exposes gain/bias controls and if so what the preferred method of calibration is? I've never owned an Optoma projector before so forgive me if the question is naive.

I've got a Spyder sensor and am thinking of picking up the CalMan software to assist with calibrating my HD81.

Thanks again!

-Dave

One thing I forgot to mention, that really stood out on the HD81 compared to any previous projector I've owned or seen, and this probably says a lot about the lens and 1080 HDTV source material - I have never seen such sharp sub titles or menu titles from a projector - ever. It really stood out as a big difference from 720p machines. Tom was playing an episode from Lost that had sub titles on the screen and it was one of the first things I noticed. Sub titles on standard def dvd's didn't look as good of course - again, the source material is now the limiting factor.


Craig, thanks for adding all your observations as we really enjoy getting additional feedback. It would be great to hear more about this sharpness and quality picture with a nice clean 1080 source from the Toshiba HD-DVD.

Of course the more detailed reports we get, the better. :cool:

I am not sure if it was already confirmed, but

Will the scaler output 48hz (or any 24 multiple for judder free film based content) and will the PJ sync to that rate?

What about 50hz for PAL stuff?


thanks

I will concede that 945 lumens (HD81) is a bright pj, 720 lumens (VW100) is a dim pj! How do we classify the 360 lumens (Marantz 11S1) or 270 lumens (Sharp 12K). :) :)


Ruby has 720 lumes for the first 30 minutes or so...From there its going down to 300-350 lumen after just 250 hours - time for a new $900.- lamp. You do the math. ;)

Always arguing how bright the Ruby is out of the box does not provide a realistic picture about its real-world performance.

Ruby has 720 lumes for the first 30 minutes or so...From there its going down to 300-350 lumen after just 250 hours - time for a new $900.- lamp. You do the math. ;)

Always arguing how bright the Ruby is out of the box does not provide a realistic picture about its real-world performance.

To be fair, UHP lamps loose brightness just as fast, they're just cheaper to replace.

Not even close. When Philips introduced the UHP concept, the whole point was an initial loss of 5-10% then it levels off and stays that way until it just doesn't fire up one day.

Output is 48Hz if input is 1080p 24fps (some future HD device such as Pioneer Blu-ray player will support this kind of output)

Output is 60Hz if input is 1080i ,720p, 480i/p (48Hz is not good for video that are not converted from film... - so 60Hz is a better compromise)

50Hz PAL is supported at 50Hz

I am not sure if it was already confirmed, but

Will the scaler output 48hz (or any 24 multiple for judder free film based content) and will the PJ sync to that rate?

What about 50hz for PAL stuff?


thanks

Hello and Thanks for the time,

New here. First post actually. I don’t want to clutter your forum but I have joined to seek expert advice as quickly as I can get it. Perhaps you can relate, but during an addition to my home I have received so much bad advice the last place I want to mess up now is the theater equipment.

After reading as much information as I personally am able to understand I had my theater area pre-wired for a projection unit. I had narrowed the search down to the Optoma HD 81.

In part I based my decision on what I thought to be cutting edge technology and working with (10-15K) for the projector.

When I started construction I read that the Optoma would be out in July, but that was not the case. I have written to the company twice, but have received no response regarding the release. Now, the addition (game room) is completed less the theater.

My questions are fairly simple and if someone would write me privately that would be OK too. Football Looms and the wife is pushing for answers so I turn to your forum for help.

So, is this thing out or not? If not, is there any idea when? Should I wait, do you think- or should I look to another unit all together? You may wonder about the size of the area I have for a theater and the answer is 30’ x 30’ so it will fit whatever. Like many I seek quality but can’t afford systems like many of you have. I am also on the short end of the life cycle and just hope to make the best possible choice.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

Ruby has 720 lumes for the first 30 minutes or so...From there its going down to 300-350 lumen after just 250 hours - time for a new $900.- lamp. You do the math. ;)
.
I s that what yours did? :) My Ruby measured 720 lumens after d65 calibration at 10 hours. Currently at 90 hours it measures 650 lumens.

I fully expect to lose 40% to 50% by 300 hours, but I may not.

Always arguing how bright the Ruby is out of the box does not provide a realistic picture about its real-world performance.
I am sure you know that the real world measurements performed by Bob Sorel Et. al. show that the UHP bulbs also will lose 30% to 50% of their output by 300 hours or so. IIRC Bob measured his Infocus 7210 and his Optoma H79.

Realistic real world brightnmess loss is not just a Ruby/Xenon issue, which is what you are making it sound like.

All bulbs will lose 30% to 50% of their brightness within the first 500 hours,.

At this point I will get either a HD81 (pending rainbow testing) Pearl with Silverstar, or most likely the AVS 333 special for my family room "giant plasma". I am specing 50% original calibrated brightness which is the likely real world performance. :) :)

At this point I will get either a HD81 (pending rainbow testing)

Just FYI, while I can see the rare rainbow on my H79, I saw none on the HD81.

All bulbs will lose 30% to 50% of their brightness within the first 500 hours,

That's one reason I couldn't afford a Ruby - i like to change my bulbs at no more than 500 hours to have a nice bright picture. With the H79 or any other projector with a $400 bulb, that's 80 cents and hour. No biggie. But that's $ 1.80 / hour for the Ruby bulb - yikes!

At this point I will get either a HD81 (pending rainbow testing) Pearl with Silverstar, or most likely the AVS 333 special for my family room "giant plasma". I am specing 50% original calibrated brightness which is the likely real world performance. :) :)

How large a screen are you planning for your 'giant plasma', and what is the light situation in your family room (if you don't mind my asking)?

How large a screen are you planning for your 'giant plasma', and what is the light situation in your family room (if you don't mind my asking)?
I am planning on 8' wide 16x9 ( 96"x54"). The room is 2 stories with a wall of glass so pretty bright even with the curtains drawn.

This will be for sunday family sports, general tv so I can't really light control.

My questions are fairly simple and if someone would write me privately that would be OK too. Football Looms and the wife is pushing for answers so I turn to your forum for help.

Steve


You have got to be kidding. Your wife is in a hurry to get the pj for football season. Does she have a sister?:)

To answer your question, I think Tom said it would be out in the next two weeks. It was mentioned in the last couple of pages.

Ericglo

I am planning on 8' wide 16x9 ( 96"x54"). The room is 2 stories with a wall of glass so pretty bright even with the curtains drawn.

This will be for sunday family sports, general tv so I can't really light control.

Will there be a lot of light shinning directly onto the screen, especially from the same direction as the projector will be a big problem. You may want to look into something like the Visage screen from Screen Innovations: http://www.screeninnovations.com/

This screen is known to hot spot a little but for watching general content I didn't find it distracting, I really had to look for it honestly. I think something like the Visage is the only way to go if you have a lot of light.

They'll be out soon (the first batch) but they're not going to be all over the place. Probably like the first Toshiba HDA1 launch (which way did they go).

I s that what yours did? :) My Ruby measured 720 lumens after d65 calibration at 10 hours. Currently at 90 hours it measures 650 lumens.

I fully expect to lose 40% to 50% by 300 hours, but I may not.


Realistic real world brightnmess loss is not just a Ruby/Xenon issue, which is what you are making it sound like.

All bulbs will lose 30% to 50% of their brightness within the first 500 hours,.


That may be true but it seems that the Xenon looses brightness a lot faster! I have over 500 hours on my HS51 and I don't think it is 50% as bright, and I don't think it lost any noticible brightness in 10 hours from new? Regardless, this is why I would never buy a Ruby, bulb is too expensive! To high a maint. cost for me.

That may be true but it seems that the Xenon looses brightness a lot faster! I have over 500 hours on my HS51 and I don't think it is 50% as bright, and I don't think it lost any noticible brightness in 10 hours from new? Regardless, this is why I would never buy a Ruby, bulb is too expensive! To high a maint. cost for me.
A lot of Ruby owners say they have not lost brightness, until they measure it. :) If your HS51 is typical, your likely down at least 30%.

Of course if you don't wnat to know, don't measure it. :)

You have got to be kidding. Your wife is in a hurry to get the pj for football season. Does she have a sister?:)

To answer your question, I think Tom said it would be out in the next two weeks. It was mentioned in the last couple of pages.

Ericglo
My wife too is a big football fan. She forced me to get a projector in the first place and now wants a 1080p model though she does not use that term. All she knows is that she wants our projector to have the same quality as our Sony SXRD television and I need to make it happen :).

This is an excellent feature. I had hoped to see it implemented by other manufacturers, but not all listen.

Actually, I read Greg's review on one of the Yamaha machine, and saw Greg's comment on this, I think it's a good idea, so we followed Greg's suggestion ...

So Greg is the one that makes this happen ... Thanks, Greg! :)

A lot of Ruby owners say they have not lost brightness, until they measure it. :) If your HS51 is typical, your likely down at least 30%.

Of course if you don't wnat to know, don't measure it. :)

Oh I know I have lost brightness and 30% is probably close. I find myself using high lamp mode a lot now, because it is not bright enough in low anymore. This is why I get so frustrated with all these dim HT projectors.

I am trying to decide if I go with something like this HD-81 and go through all the hassle to mount it perfectly, tilt my screen, etc. or go with something like the Pearl mounted optimally with a HighPower..

My wife too is a big football fan. She forced me to get a projector in the first place and now wants a 1080p model though she does not use that term. All she knows is that she wants our projector to have the same quality as our Sony SXRD television and I need to make it happen :).

Scratch my original comment as I see you already have front projection.

But SXRD at 60" is going to look better than at 120". To me; however, I think 120" looks better all the time, in fact the bigger the better! :)

Im using the ruby with 110" highpower and not complaining one bit about brightness, thinking of doing a scope screen in highpower as well as a second screen behind the 110" electric highpower, I havent heard anyone with a ruby highpwer combination complain about brightness and we have ruby owners of all bulb hours using the highpower, just finished watching goodfellas on hd dvd no problem at all with brightness im over 200 hours

I am at 214 hours on my Ruby/Silverstar combo and it still very bright. No lack of brightness here! ;)

Not even close. When Philips introduced the UHP concept, the whole point was an initial loss of 5-10% then it levels off and stays that way until it just doesn't fire up one day.

I think you need to read DanielO's data here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8179893&highlight=h79+dim#post8179893)

As well as other data by Bob Sorel and others which I'm too lazy to search for now.

That may be true but it seems that the Xenon looses brightness a lot faster! I have over 500 hours on my HS51 and I don't think it is 50% as bright, and I don't think it lost any noticible brightness in 10 hours from new? Regardless, this is why I would never buy a Ruby, bulb is too expensive! To high a maint. cost for me.

Without measurement equipment you wouldn't know unless you were really pushing the limits of screen size. Eyes react logarithmically to light, your pupils just open wider until they can't open any more. It's like audio, if you turn it down 3db does it sound half as loud? No, as 1db is the smallest step in volume most people can hear. The actual sound power however has in fact been cut in half.

Will there be a lot of light shinning directly onto the screen, especially from the same direction as the projector will be a big problem. You may want to look into something like the Visage screen from Screen Innovations




but as they say in the reviews:

"Projector lens center has to be within an angle of 5 degrees from the top or bottom of screen"

is this compatible with the 81 given its lack of lens shift and its 27% offset ?

If my math still works, this is not the case - by far !

PS :this restriction about not posting URLs until you growup is futile...But when it applies to Quotes, ie something which has been posted by others, its STUPID :D

They'll be out soon (the first batch) but they're not going to be all over the place. Probably like the first Toshiba HDA1 launch (which way did they go).

Tom,

I live in the Netherlands (yeah, that little country between belgium and germany.) We will get a H81 with Pal. Can it be that we europeans get a better machine because of this? (i know, this is a heavy statement for you ntsc guys.... :o )

Tom,

I live in the Netherlands (yeah, that little country between belgium and germany.) We will get a H81 with Pal. Can it be that we europeans get a better machine because of this? (i know, this is a heavy statement for you ntsc guys.... :o )

Well someone also coming from that little country and my dealings with optoma nl/uk on this. What is 'normal' is that optoma europe takes 3 months to 'retune/check' a new machine for the european market. Someone from europe goes to the factory several times and then has to sign of on a production batch. Given the information Tom is giving us on the usa release i would expect a november first batch in europe.

Daniel.

Well someone also coming from that little country and my dealings with optoma nl/uk on this. What is 'normal' is that optoma europe takes 3 months to 'retune/check' a new machine for the european market. Someone from europe goes to the factory several times and then has to sign of on a production batch. Given the information Tom is giving us on the usa release i would expect a november first batch in europe.

Daniel.

If you have already ordered your HD81 at a Optoma dealer, you will get one late september.
The delay for the EU market is because Optoma is making a PAL modification on the projector :)

Actually, I read Greg's review on one of the Yamaha machine, and saw Greg's comment on this, I think it's a good idea, so we followed Greg's suggestion ...

So Greg is the one that makes this happen ... Thanks, Greg! :)

WOW, Thanks Greg!!!!

Joe

but as they say in the reviews:

"Projector lens center has to be within an angle of 5 degrees from the top or bottom of screen"

is this compatible with the 81 given its lack of lens shift and its 27% offset ?

If my math still works, this is not the case - by far !

PS :this restriction about not posting URLs until you growup is futile...But when it applies to Quotes, ie something which has been posted by others, its STUPID :D

See this post for offset angle information:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8192742&&#post8192742

Offset angle is 5.44 degrees (rough calculations based on data provided by Tom), so it not that far off your target 5 degrees.

HTH, Davie.

Tom,

I live in the Netherlands (yeah, that little country between belgium and germany.) We will get a H81 with Pal. Can it be that we europeans get a better machine because of this? (i know, this is a heavy statement for you ntsc guys.... :o )

As far as I recall, Optoma natively supports 576i/p on all their recent/current projectors. The 81 should be no exception.

As far as I recall, Optoma natively supports 576i/p on all their recent/current projectors. The 81 should be no exception.

Yeah but like i stated optoma europe will do some tuning/checking/whatever/new documentation/ads and sign of on a european production run. If they claim end of sept. fine lets see what happens :) Im still putting my money on Nov :).

Daniel.

Tom,

I live in the Netherlands (yeah, that little country between belgium and germany.) We will get a H81 with Pal. Can it be that we europeans get a better machine because of this? (i know, this is a heavy statement for you ntsc guys.... :o )

It shouldn't be any better or worse, it will just work better in PAL land. :) You're looking to avoid the nasty controuring problem that's popped up so often. Optoma is scoring it up just for you. :)

As far as location and products. I just went from a Saab to an Alfa Romeo, maybe I should buy a Seleco now. ;)

You should like the HD81, it's got the brightness, blacks, resoltuion you need. Plus that super cool Gennum processor/scaler box. It's not just the deinterlacing it's the vast color controls it has also.
You should like it.

That could be too. I have an DVDO scaler feeding my H79 720p, but it doesn't look anything like the picture produced by the HD81 with native 1080i material. That's all I can tell you! Hey - 2X the pixels is making a big difference - it's a far bigger jump from the H79 to the HD81 than from my HT1000 to the H79 resolution wise.

Thanks for your info, both you and Tom provide great inital impression and I appreciate your hard work. Just a quick comment on your scaler seetup, DVDO doesn't deinterlace 1080i input unlike the gennum processor. If you could compare the H79 and HD81 with the same scaler, that would be great.

Not even close. When Philips introduced the UHP concept, the whole point was an initial loss of 5-10% then it levels off and stays that way until it just doesn't fire up one day.

All bulbs will lose 30% to 50% of their brightness within the first 500 hours.

Actually you're both about right. If you take an UHP bulb and only ignite it once it will burn for at least 1500 hours and remain within 75-90% of it's initial brightness.
If you ignite the bulb 500+ times in 1500 hours you remain with far less then that.

The problem is with re-igniting the bulb, there is an incredible voltage needed to ignite the bulb and what happens is that the electrodes wear off. The particles from the electrodes get stuck to the glass and thus reflect and absorb light from the bulb. If you look at any long time used UHP bulb you can see this.

Actually you're both about right. If you take an UHP bulb and only ignite it once it will burn for at least 1500 hours and remain within 75-90% of it's initial brightness.
If you ignite the bulb 500+ times in 1500 hours you remain with far less then that.

The problem is with re-igniting the bulb, there is an incredible voltage needed to ignite the bulb and what happens is that the electrodes wear off. The particles from the electrodes get stuck to the glass and thus reflect and absorb light from the bulb. If you look at any long time used UHP bulb you can see this. [QUOTE]

Thanks!

As always there isone side and another side!
What a nice way to explain!

Jos

As always there isone side and another side!
What a nice way to explain!

Jos

Im sorry its not, we are talking projectors for home use, infact optoma itself advices against using the projector for more than 8hours. My numbers are based on a avg 4hour runtime and provide real numbers.

I can claim my car does 1000 mpg if i only drive downhill that doesn't make it realistic and these numbers should not be used as PR.

Lets not play games, these bulbs will loose about 50% over the first 1000 to 1500hours when you use them with care in normal operation.

Daniel.

optoma itself advices against using the projector for more than 8hours.

Bummer, so i can cancel my Lord of the Rings EE and Star Wars marathon!? :eek:

Digital projection & projection design rate many of their projectors for 24hrs use, magnesium casing to dissipate heat

24 hrs max or 24/7?

24/7 continuous duty, digital projection supplies projection solutions to the military in many cases, my Ivision HD was a small compact but extremely solid and well made unit and it had the magnesium case, in the case of the larger units designed for the military lens maintenance is required such as removing the lens and changing filters and certain gaskets, im not sure if this maintenance extends to the consumer products but my projector did have the magnesium case and rated for "continuous" duty so for a projector manufacturer to say they dont recommend more than 8 hours of usage warrants some looking into, its not a claim that I usually hear especially when you think of how most projectors come with so many disclaimers such as bulb life and so on, sounds strange that they wouldnt add this to the list

well 3 parts of lord of the rings bring more health problems if you ask me but even if you can run a projector 24h/day its stupid to take this as a basis for bulb life on a hometheater projector and that was my point.

Daniel.

well 3 parts of lord of the rings bring more health problems if you ask me but even if you can run a projector 24h/day its stupid to take this as a basis for bulb life on a hometheater projector and that was my point.

Daniel.

what health problems? :confused:

what health problems?


bathroom breaks

I don't recall seeing the mains power requirements for the projector and for the processor unit. Can anyone tell me what they are?

I have a follow-up question re the adjustible iris discussion of several days ago. Since the HD-81 is so bright with the iris fully open, I imagine that it would be too bright in this configuration with a Dalite HighPower screen (e.g., for a 120" diag screen, I calculate something over 60 ftL). So the adjustible iris is a wonderful thing; by closing it down as far as possible, the lumens go down by ~ 1/3, so that one then has ~ 20 ftL, e.g., for nighttime viewing.

My question: does the iris (when just set manually) work exactly as an ND filter, or is it doing an even a better job of reducing black level and enhancing contrast?

I'm looking forward to a full blow review and possibly a head-to-head comparison with this PJ and the Ruby. This one is on the short list and if it is as good as it appears, I'll probably buy it...

Hi Tom,

Do you know what lamp is used in the HD81? Is it the same lamp as any of the other Optoma projectors? Have you seen a part number so we can check out the replacement cost? Did any of the doc with the projector discuss lamp life?

I sure hope Optoma ships these puppies soon! I'm extremely eager to get mine.

Thanks!

Joe

I have a follow-up question re the adjustible iris discussion of several days ago. Since the HD-81 is so bright with the iris fully open, I imagine that it would be too bright in this configuration with a Dalite HighPower screen (e.g., for a 120" diag screen, I calculate something over 60 ftL). So the adjustible iris is a wonderful thing; by closing it down as far as possible, the lumens go down by ~ 1/3, so that one then has ~ 20 ftL, e.g., for nighttime viewing.

My question: does the iris (when just set manually) work exactly as an ND filter, or is it doing an even a better job of reducing black level and enhancing contrast?

Thr bright ouptut will help combat ambient light!

I'd imagine it uses the same lamp as the EP910. A quick web search indicates $400-$450.

My question: does the iris (when just set manually) work exactly as an ND filter, or is it doing an even a better job of reducing black level and enhancing contrast?

The iris will directly increase in contrast, in addition to lowering black levels (along with overall brightness.) In many rooms, lowering brightness results in an increase contrast because of the reduction of cross reflections off light colored surfaces back to the screen, but an iris will increase contrast even in a totally pitch black room with minimal reflections back to the screen - it is a superior method of cutting brightness compared to an ND filter.

I'd imagine it uses the same lamp as the EP910. A quick web search indicates $400-$450.



How does the lamp in the EP910 compare to the one in the Optoma H78 & 79?

I seem to recall there being some early failure issues with those projectors??

I'm looking forward to a full blow review and possibly a head-to-head comparison with this PJ and the Ruby. This one is on the short list and if it is as good as it appears, I'll probably buy it...

That would be a good comparison so see......

Personally I would rather see a head to head with the HD-81 and the Pearl ... :eek:

... an iris ... is a superior method of cutting brightness compared to an ND filter.

Seth, thanks much; this is basically what I wanted to know. The brightness of the HD-81, coupled with the adjustible iris, seems to make for extremely useful flexibility.

My question: does the iris (when just set manually) work exactly as an ND filter, or is it doing an even a better job of reducing black level and enhancing contrast?
An cat's eye iris on DLP can improve on/off CR on a DLP by a factor of 3 or more! AFAIK it works by reducing stray light within the light engine. The white level is reduce, but the black level is reduce even further, resulting in higher CR.

A ND filter reduces the white and black levels equally, resulting in no increase in CR.

One of the reasons for the surprise of guitarman's measurement is that with the iris closed light reduction of > 50% one would have expected an increase in CR of at typically > 2x instead of the 11% from 2,700:1 to 3,000:1

How does the lamp in the EP910 compare to the one in the Optoma H78 & 79?

I seem to recall there being some early failure issues with those projectors??

Sorry, can't help you there. Tom? Wing?

I have a follow-up question re the adjustible iris discussion of several days ago. Since the HD-81 is so bright with the iris fully open, I imagine that it would be too bright in this configuration with a Dalite HighPower screen (e.g., for a 120" diag screen, I calculate something over 60 ftL).


Not quite, given the lack of lens shift and extreme offset (37.2 degrees right? correct me if this has changed again) you would not be able to setup this projector to realize the gain from a High Power, you would most likely be in the 1.0 to 1.5 gain given that you would have the projector on the floor or against the ceiling. You could put the screen as low as possible and tilt it and maybe you could get the projector around 6 ft off the ground but that is still 3ft above typical head height.

You would need to use a SilverStar to get the brightness you are talking about.

Not quite, given the lack of lens shift and extreme offset (37.2 degrees right? correct me if this has changed again) you would not be able to setup this projector to realize the gain from a High Power, you would most likely be in the 1.0 to 1.5 gain given that you would have the projector on the floor or against the ceiling. You could put the screen as low as possible and tilt it and maybe you could get the projector around 6 ft off the ground but that is still 3ft above typical head height.

You would need to use a SilverStar to get the brightness you are talking about.

Yes, you're certainly right that the lack of lens shift will rule out the HighPower as a good screen choice for the HD-81; my question did not consider this aspect, I was just wanting to know how effective the iris is in obtaining good black level and contrast. E.g., is it as good as a gray screen? I.e., supposing one COULD set up a HighPower for optimum gain, would one get better black level and contrast with a HighPower and the iris closed down all the way, or a Firehawk with the iris fully open (the ftL's will be about the same for these two situations)?

That would be a good comparison so see......

Personally I would rather see a head to head with the HD-81 and the Pearl ... :eek:

I've seen HD81 head-to-head with Ruby in action, actually, side by side, each on a 85" 16x9 screen!

So, personally, I would like to see Ruby vs. Pearl, to see how SONY handles this new 1080p, relative to Ruby. Will they put out the very latest and best technology on Pearl? Or will they, consider the impact to Ruby which is selling quite well, purposedly make a slightly "lesser" projector than Ruby? :)

I've seen HD81 head-to-head with Ruby in action, actually, side by side, each on a 85" 16x9 screen!

How did it compare? It's one thing to look at the "numbers". It's another to see them side by side. Any observations you would like to share?

Yes, you're certainly right that the lack of lens shift will rule out the HighPower as a good screen choice for the HD-81; my question did not consider this aspect, I was just wanting to know how effective the iris is in obtaining good black level and contrast. E.g., is it as good as a gray screen? I.e., supposing one COULD set up a HighPower for optimum gain, would one get better black level and contrast with a HighPower and the iris closed down all the way, or a Firehawk with the iris fully open (the ftL's will be about the same for these two situations)?Mr. Wigggles and others have detailed the tilted screen and tilted projector approach from a not very tall ceiling mounted HD-81. You'd get maybe 1.5 gain this way. The only way to get the maximum gain from the High Power would involve a very tilted Optoma immediately above and behind you with a very counter-tilted High Power. I did this with the BenQ 8700 that had less offset than the HD-81 and it worked OK but I am not going back that direction and not doing an even more extreme version that the HD-81 would require. Plus, the throw of the Optoma is too long for my situation.

I still personally wish Optoma had used the H7* box (with a stronger fan) and lens shift. It would have been so easy to upgrade to another Optoma but now I'm left waiting to see what Sharp, Samsung, or maybe BenQ, offer in the months ahead. I think I'd miss high ANSI contrast with non-DLP.

Dan

Yes, you're certainly right that the lack of lens shift will rule out the HighPower as a good screen choice for the HD-81; my question did not consider this aspect, I was just wanting to know how effective the iris is in obtaining good black level and contrast. E.g., is it as good as a gray screen? I.e., supposing one COULD set up a HighPower for optimum gain, would one get better black level and contrast with a HighPower and the iris closed down all the way, or a Firehawk with the iris fully open (the ftL's will be about the same for these two situations)?

I hear you, and I have debated the same kinds of things. But what I am really debating is if I can change projectors to something like the Pearl, which we know will be capable of producing a higher on/off contrast ratio and mating that with a HighPower vs. the HD81 with a Firehawk? My thinking is for mine and my wife's seat that I can get better lumens combined with better CR from from the Pearl High Power Combo, not to mention I would save about $3K from the HD81 Firehawk combo. I can buy a good scaler with the $3K and have much more flexibility in mounting my projector. The idea of having to tilt the projector up and the screen out is just not that appealing to me. I would do it if there were no other options but I have a feeling that I will have many other 1080P choices after CEDIA and I am not in a hurry.

I hear you, and I have debated the same kinds of things. But what I am really debating is if I can change projectors to something like the Pearl, which we know will be capable of producing a higher on/off contrast ratio and mating that with a HighPower vs. the HD81 with a Firehawk? My thinking is for mine and my wife's seat that I can get better lumens combined with better CR from from the Pearl High Power Combo, not to mention I would save about $3K from the HD81 Firehawk combo. I can buy a good scaler with the $3K and have much more flexibility in mounting my projector. The idea of having to tilt the projector up and the screen out is just not that appealing to me. I would do it if there were no other options but I have a feeling that I will have many other 1080P choices after CEDIA and I am not in a hurry.

Very thoughtful comments. The Ruby/Pearl + HP screen, versus the brighter HD-81 + Firehawk, is a very good question. We need DarinP to analyze this for us!

Question: does the excellent CR and deep blacks of the Ruby/Pearl hold up with a HP screen? (Yes, I've read all those 'Ruby + HP' threads.)

An cat's eye iris on DLP can improve on/off CR on a DLP by a factor of 3 or more! AFAIK it works by reducing stray light within the light engine. The white level is reduce, but the black level is reduce even further, resulting in higher CR.

A ND filter reduces the white and black levels equally, resulting in no increase in CR.

One of the reasons for the surprise of guitarman's measurement is that with the iris closed light reduction of > 50% one would have expected an increase in CR of at typically > 2x instead of the 11% from 2,700:1 to 3,000:1It is really 2 irises working together that get the big improvements like the Sharp 12k showed. With one iris you can get improvement from the first part of the closure because of some overlap region with 12 degree mirrors (which wasn't as big as with 10 degree mirrors), but closing beyond that doesn't give a lot of improvement without also doing something prior to the DMD chip to also clamp the light there in conjunction with the lens iris.

--Darin

If you really need to see a Ruby and h81 beside each other to see some differences between the two, than the h81 makes a real statement if you ask me for being the most complete off the two for lesser money. In that way Optoma did it again! :)

Anybody have the specs on the HD81 vp and what it is capable of "doing"? How does it compare to other stand alone vp's by Crystallio, Lumagen, and DVDO?

Anybody have the specs on the HD81 vp and what it is capable of "doing"? How does it compare to other stand alone vp's by Crystallio, Lumagen, and DVDO?

The HD81 is coupled with the HD3000 vp which has a dedicated thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704674). This would be a good thread question for the vp area.

It looks pretty stout. I wouldn't buy another external vp with the HD81 if you don't already have one...

The HD81 is coupled with the HD3000 vp which has a dedicated thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704674). This would be a good thread question for the vp area.

It looks pretty stout. I wouldn't buy another external vp with the HD81 if you don't already have one...

I saw the HD3000 in the VP thread but thought this was a different processor. Thanks for the clarification.

I saw the HD3000 in the VP thread but thought this one was different. In my preliminary research, the HD3000 had one HDMI input where as this one has 3 - if I haven't missed an update somewhere. That's why I thought it was different...

I see, I'm pretty sure they're one in the same. The HD3000 has three HDMI inputs - I was reading the manual yesterday...:)

Mike

Did we ever get the exact throw on this? I remember from the beginning there was some speculation, but I don't think it was exactly nailed down. I want to do 115" diagonal 16X9 screen at about 14 1/2 feet from lens to screen. I think I'm just outside of the throw range, which is why I need a specific number. Thanks in advance.

Did we ever get the exact throw on this? I remember from the beginning there was some speculation, but I don't think it was exactly nailed down. I want to do 115" diagonal 16X9 screen at about 14 1/2 feet from lens to screen. I think I'm just outside of the throw range, which is why I need a specific number. Thanks in advance.

Do a search on posts from me in this thread. You will find a calculator that will do all of the work for you.

There were multiple versions so look for the last one.

Joe

Joe, I think the question might be more of a request for Wing or Tzunglin to chime in and let us know if the early prediction of throw distance turned out to be accurate, or if it has changed also.

I thought you based your calculator on those early reports.... or did you get some newer info from Tom?

Tom listed some numbers earlier and it seems the throw ratio has not changed. It will be 1.8:1 to 2.2:1 in terms of throw_distance:screen_width.

-Mr. Wigggles

HD3000 and HD81 have 3 HDMI inputs for normal usage.

There is actually a fourth HDMI input (and a second output) dedicated for AV reciever or HDMI MUX device or even another scalar box. If users have such devices the no. of HDMI inputs can be expanded. (all these extra inputs can enjoy the good scaling and color adjustment ability of the HD3000)

Note. If user are not using any of these external HDMI devices, this 4th HDMI input and 2nd HDMI output need to be connected together using a short shunt HDMI cable (provided in our box) for the HDMI function of HD81 to work properly.



I see, I'm pretty sure they're one in the same. The HD3000 has three HDMI inputs - I was reading the manual yesterday...:)

Mike

Mr. Wing.......

If a person had an audio receiver that also did HDMI switching (ie: Pioneer Elite 84TXsi)... would you run your sources to the receiver first and then the HDMI output from the receiver to the HD3000 and then on to the projector?

Tom listed some numbers earlier and it seems the throw ratio has not changed. It will be 1.8:1 to 2.2:1 in terms of throw_distance:screen_width.

-Mr. Wigggles

Thanks.

What would be the maximum throw distance in feet for a 120" wide 2.35 aspect ratio screen? Can I assume 22' or is the throw based on a 16X9 screen width?

Dear HiHoStevo,

Your mentioned method is OK if you are not using the audio function of HDMI inputs connecting to HD3000.
(some users prefer analog or optical method instead)

If you need audio function of HDMI on all 3 HDMI input of HD3000 also

It is recommended to connect

HD3000 (2nd output) to Receiver input and then
Receiver output to HD3000 input (4th input) instead

Otherwise, these HDMI inputs to HD3000 will give no audio.

Special usage tips, if somebody ever need 9 User settings (15 settings for ISF technicians) for his or her HDMI output device, he/she can just connect the device output to 4th input of HD3000 (2nd output is open) now User 1, 2, 3 of HDMI 1, 2, 3 all can be used as separate User settings for this device. (tradeoff is HDMI 1, 2, 3 inputs on HD3000 are not usable)

Mr. Wing.......

If a person had an audio receiver that also did HDMI switching (ie: Pioneer Elite 84TXsi)... would you run your sources to the receiver first and then the HDMI output from the receiver to the HD3000 and then on to the projector?

What would be the maximum throw distance in feet for a 120" wide 2.35 aspect ratio screen? Can I assume 22' or is the throw based on a 16X9 screen width?

Would you be using an anamorphic lens to get the 2.35 aspect ratio, or just masking the top and bottom of the image? If you are doing it without an anamorphic lens, would you be zooming out for 16x9 viewing?

Joe

Joe,

Anamorphic lens for 2.35 ratio viewing with screen masking for 16X9 viewing.

Joe,

Anamorphic lens for 2.35 ratio viewing with screen masking for 16X9 viewing.
What kind of lens?

For horizontal expansion (Prismasonic, ISCO II & III, Panamorph U350 & U50) the throw is calculated using the 16:9 screen width of the HD81 of 1.8 to 2.2.

For vertical compression (Other Panamorph models) then it is based on the 2.35:1 screen width, which is a longer throw.

Mike

Mr. Wing.......

Thank you very much for the response and explanation!

Tom - G'man --

Can you confirm that the required serial cable between the processor and the projector uses MALE DB9 connectors on both ends and the cable is wired straight pin-to-pin at each end (i.e., not a null modem cable configuration)? I may want to go ahead and pre-install a serial cable during construction of our new house (currently being built) and need to be certain I get the correct serial cable configuration.

Ron Jones

Is it screenshot time yet?

Tom - G'man --

Can you confirm that the required serial cable between the processor and the projector uses MALE DB9 connectors on both ends and the cable is wired straight pin-to-pin at each end (i.e., not a null modem cable configuration)? I may want to go ahead and pre-install a serial cable during construction of our new house (currently being built) and need to be certain I get the correct serial cable configuration.

Ron - may I recommend getting the cable and you can always buy a $2 M/F conversion connector.

I don't know how you would control the iris without the RS232 cable, unless the projector has an IR sensor.

Steve is right, so I've deleted my confusing post on this. The manual for the HD3000 processor is not geared for use with the HD81. I wish Optoma would post the manual for the HD81 so we can get definitive answers to these questions.

An Optoma Specific HD 3000 manual was posted but it was posted. It was not final (had internal edits and comments) but it was on the site and downloadable.

Is it screenshot time yet?

Screenshot fest coming on a new thread. Here's a teaser :)

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd81fifth1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd81fifth2.jpg


Very nice black level with CRT smoothness (no pixels to be seen) yet DLP super crisp imaging. Things just got allot better for light weight digitals.

Screenshots taken in econo mode, Iris at stop 12 which is about 2/3's towards the darker.

I don't know how you would control the iris without the RS232 cable, unless the projector has an IR sensor.

It looks like the sensor is blocked off on the front case (not there). I was told the only way to get the projectors menu functions is through the HD81's controller.

Screenshot fest coming on a new thread. Here's a teaser :)

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd81fifth1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd81fifth2.jpg


Very nice black level with CRT smoothness (no pixels to be seen) yet DLP super crisp imaging. Things just got allot better for light weight digitals.

Screenshots taken in econo mode, Iris at stop 12 which is about 2/3's towards the darker.

Now THAT is something to get excited about. I'm having a hell of a time trying to wrap my brain around whether or not this PJ will work in my room without having to tilt the screen. I'm looking to ceiling mount it on a 11' ceiling with viewing height in the first row at about 40 inches - 11.5 back from the screen. 110 inch wide screen. I've played with the calculator but I'm too ignorant to figure out what it is telling me...

Forgive me if this has already been answered, (i haven't read all 58 pages)...This pj and the processor intrigue me for my upcoming CH theater. I looked at the processore link and over there, they say that there is no custom output aspect ratio control, only presets. Somewhere in this thread a LBX mode was mentioned to see hd-dvd menus when using constant height. Does that mean with a combination of the scaling abilities of the processor and (possible) letterbox mode of the hd81 I could have a constant height/fixed lens setup with nothing else required but the anamorphic lens? Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

Now THAT is something to get excited about. I'm having a hell of a time trying to wrap my brain around whether or not this PJ will work in my room without having to tilt the screen. I'm looking to ceiling mount it on a 11' ceiling with viewing height in the first row at about 40 inches - 11.5 back from the screen. 110 inch wide screen. I've played with the calculator but I'm too ignorant to figure out what it is telling me...

It would seem to me that if you have 11 foot ceilings, this PJ shouldn't be a problem in your room.

Rob - That was my thought as well, but I don't understand the output from the calculator. I'm new to front projection so I know it's just me not understanding the results of the tool. Thanks for the input.

Rob - That was my thought as well, but I don't understand the output from the calculator. I'm new to front projection so I know it's just me not understanding the results of the tool. Thanks for the input.

The numbers can be confusing. Just because I know that the PJ will work in your room, doesn't mean I know how it will work! ;)

The fun part is determining exactly how far from the ceiling to mount the pj to match up with your screen height....and then doing it!

:eek:

Forgive me if this has already been answered, (i haven't read all 58 pages)...This pj and the processor intrigue me for my upcoming CH theater. I looked at the processore link and over there, they say that there is no custom output aspect ratio control, only presets. Somewhere in this thread a LBX mode was mentioned to see hd-dvd menus when using constant height. Does that mean with a combination of the scaling abilities of the processor and (possible) letterbox mode of the hd81 I could have a constant height/fixed lens setup with nothing else required but the anamorphic lens? Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

Yes I saw that in action. 2.35 setup with anamorphic lens using the Tosh HD-A1. When you're viewing the movie and bring up the DVD players menus, they will be pushed down out of the way. A quick hit on the direct button of the remote control to choose 4.3 brings the menu's back into play.

Now THAT is something to get excited about. I'm having a hell of a time trying to wrap my brain around whether or not this PJ will work in my room without having to tilt the screen. I'm looking to ceiling mount it on a 11' ceiling with viewing height in the first row at about 40 inches - 11.5 back from the screen. 110 inch wide screen. I've played with the calculator but I'm too ignorant to figure out what it is telling me...

Using the calculator and if you mount the projector as close to the ceiling as possible (about 4 inches from the ceiling to the center of the projector's lens), and with a 110 inch wide screen, the bottom of the screen would be 43.7 inches up from the floor and the top of the screen would be 26.4 inches down from the ceiling (for a 16 x 9 screen). If you move the projector a little more from the ceiling then the screen would also need to be moved lower on the wall by that same amount. With the zoom lens set to the center of its zoom range (i.e., Throw = 2) the distance from the screen to the front of the projector would need to be 18.3 feet.

The numbers for the screen position are based on a fixed projector lens offset of 36.2% as has been claimed for this projector.


Ron Jones

Using the calculator and if you mount the projector as close to the ceiling as possible (about 4 inches from the ceiling to the center of the projector's lens), and with a 110 inch wide screen, the bottom of the screen would be 43.7 inches up from the floor and the top of the screen would be 26.4 inches down from the ceiling (for a 16 x 9 screen). If you move the projector a little more from the ceiling then the screen would also need to be moved lower on the wall by that same amount. With the zoom lens set to the center of its zoom range (i.e., Throw = 2) the distance from the screen to the front of the projector would need to be 18.3 feet.

The numbers for the screen position are based on a fixed projector lens offset of 36.2% as has been claimed for this projector.


Ron Jones


Thanks Ron! I think I was letting some of the options and "looks square" stuff mess with me. Looks to me this would work perfectly in my room given your clarification. Now I just need to see it in person and wait for the theater to get closer to completed...

Tom,
You can now confess to everyone here. You may be playing with the Optoma, but you are watching the Dwin.:D

Ericglo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huligan
Forgive me if this has already been answered, (i haven't read all 58 pages)...This pj and the processor intrigue me for my upcoming CH theater. I looked at the processore link and over there, they say that there is no custom output aspect ratio control, only presets. Somewhere in this thread a LBX mode was mentioned to see hd-dvd menus when using constant height. Does that mean with a combination of the scaling abilities of the processor and (possible) letterbox mode of the hd81 I could have a constant height/fixed lens setup with nothing else required but the anamorphic lens? Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.


Yes I saw that in action. 2.35 setup with anamorphic lens using the Tosh HD-A1. When you're viewing the movie and bring up the DVD players menus, they will be pushed down out of the way. A quick hit on the direct button of the remote control to choose 4.3 brings the menu's back into play.

Thanks for the quick reply Tom, but I think I wasn't totally clear. I guess my question is, will pressing the 4.3 button while in letterbox mode bring everything back to proper 16x9 (i know resolution is lost), allowing me to watch HD and 1.78 movies at constant height without removing the anamorphic lens? Thanks again

Rahul

Hi Rahul,

If the image options of 4:3 and letterbox are like those on the Optoma H77/8/9, then letterbox will do the stretch so you lose the black bars for a constant height set-up with an anamorphic lens, and the 4:3 option will squish th eimage to the equivalent of 16:9 within the 2.35:1 image so you don't have to remove the lens for 16:9 movies.

That's how I use my Optoma with the ISCO II which I don't remove.

Gary

Tom,
You can now confess to everyone here. You may be playing with the Optoma, but you are watching the Dwin.:D

Ericglo

I spend most of the time watching the HD81, I'm at 95hrs now. They want me to run it and makes sure it works perfectly which it has.

I turn on the Dwin once in a while, the Sun has to be down for the CRT. I like what I've done with the Dwin. It's good to have the know how for CRT optimizing, my past days at Keohi paid off.

If I had to pick one to stay and one to go, which one do you think would stay? :)

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HD81 stays!

Actually they both can stay. :)

Yes, it has dedicated buttons to direct select 4:3 and LBX for constant height operation without removing the lens.

Furthermore, Hd81 also provides a programmable 12V trigger output that can be used to control a motorized lens or curtains.


Thanks for the quick reply Tom, but I think I wasn't totally clear. I guess my question is, will pressing the 4.3 button while in letterbox mode bring everything back to proper 16x9 (i know resolution is lost), allowing me to watch HD and 1.78 movies at constant height without removing the anamorphic lens? Thanks again

Rahul

Mr. Wing

Can you confirm that the HD81 is able to take a native 1080p/24Hz input signal and display it at 48Hz with correct color wheel adaption for judderfree presentation? And even more importantly - Does it provide an inverse 3:2 pulldown capability (showing film based 480/1080 60i input at 48Hz)???

When do you expect the first production units to ship in the US? Will it be before CEDIA?

Thank you for your time!

Screenshot fest coming on a new thread. Here's a teaser :)

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd81fifth1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd81fifth2.jpg


Very nice black level with CRT smoothness (no pixels to be seen) yet DLP super crisp imaging. Things just got allot better for light weight digitals.

Screenshots taken in econo mode, Iris at stop 12 which is about 2/3's towards the darker.

Tom,

Thanks for the quick snapshots. This is a regular DVD on what player?
Looks pretty smooth. :p

Dear TheLion,

HD81 will take 1080p/24Hz and display at 48Hz.

However, 480i/1080 60i will be displayed at 1080p 60Hz.

Mr. Wing

Can you confirm that the HD81 is able to take a native 1080p/24Hz input signal and display it at 48Hz with correct color wheel adaption for judderfree presentation? And even more important - Does it provide an inverse 3:2 pulldown capability (showing film based 480/1080 60i input at 48Hz)???

When do you expect the first production units to ship in the US? Will it be before CEDIA?

Thank you for your time!