I just picked up the D* H20 box at Circuit City and plan to install it in the bedroom to feed HD to a new LCD T.V. The first thing I noticed in the packaging was a small box containing a D* approved "B Band Converter (BBC) Module" with instructions. I'm guessing this module is only required if you are using the new 5 lnb dish with MPEG 4. Correct?

I plan on using the H20 box with my current 3 lnb dish setup to receive MPEG 2 HD (current lineup). I don't plan on upgrading to the 5 lnb dish until D* introduces their new HD DVR and adds more lil's in the L.A. DMA. Should I just forget about connecting this module for now? Thanks.

Put it away somewhere you won't lose it, you won't need it til you get the AT9 5 LNB dish.

Heck. Just install it. It won't get lost and it won't hurt anything.

I just picked up the D* H20 box at Circuit City and plan to install it in the bedroom to feed HD to a new LCD T.V. The first thing I noticed in the packaging was a small box containing a D* approved "B Band Converter (BBC) Module" with instructions. I'm guessing this module is only required if you are using the new 5 lnb dish with MPEG 4. Correct?

I plan on using the H20 box with my current 3 lnb dish setup to receive MPEG 2 HD (current lineup). I don't plan on upgrading to the 5 lnb dish until D* introduces their new HD DVR and adds more lil's in the L.A. DMA. Should I just forget about connecting this module for now? Thanks.
You are correct....The B-Band converter is used with the AT9 to pass the Ka-LO band (250-750MHz) signals. A diplexer can NOT be used with this setup, due to the UHF frequencies used.
As greywolf mentioned earlier, just install the converter now; it won't gain you anything, but it won't hurt, either....and saves the trouble of having to remember to do it when you finally DO install the AT9.....! :D

Just curious, does this Bband converter affect signal strength?

i borrowed an h20 over the weekend to test signals with my AT9 dish and they seemed low, but the H20 i was borrowing did NOT have the Bband converter connected.

any help would be appreciated

Just curious, does this Bband converter affect signal strength?

i borrowed an h20 over the weekend to test signals with my AT9 dish and they seemed low, but the H20 i was borrowing did NOT have the Bband converter connected.

any help would be appreciated
Using the B-Band converter shouldn't lower signal levels; the signal strength on the H20 is GENERALLY in the 60s to low-mid-70s.....somewhat lower than the H10, but it's relative...and NOT a cause for concern......

So adding the B band converter doesnt increase signal strength on the 103 sat ?

No. It enables signals from the 99 Sat. There have been reports of bad BBCs so make sure yours doesn't cause a drop from when it isn't on. 60's and 70's are normal readings on the H20 Ku band.

To what frequencies does the BBC convert KaLo (250-750MHz) to?

The BBC is a DiSeq type device that allows 99 to be switched for 103 in the Ka/Ku IF scheme that D* uses

The BBC is a DiSeq type device that allows 99 to be switched for 103 in the Ka/Ku IF scheme that D* uses
I don't see how or why. A satellite receiver alternates between calling for 99 or 103 by generating or discontinuing a 22Kz tone. I'm guessing the B-band converter mixes the 250 to 750 Mhz signals with some other frequency, like possibly 700 Mhz and converts them up to what might be the optimal tuning window of 950 to 1,450 Mhz.

I don't know enough about heterodyne conversion to know if it would be possible to instead subtract them from a 1.7Ghz oscillator to invert and boost them into the same window, but it has been reported elsewhere that at least one receiver lists "inverted" as one of its input configurations.

I just got the Directv HR20-250 installed with the 5lnb dish. The box came with two BBC's and the installer only put one on one of the two tuners. Is there supposed to be one on each tuner or just one? The reason I ask is because the guy that put it in was a trainee and I'm not sure he knew exactly what he was doing.

Thanks!

There should be a BBC on each Sat input.

If the bbc is put in line far enough up the cable, can the OTA signal then be combined into the same cable?

Yes it can. The BBC converts the 250-750MHz band to a higher frequency so it won't conflict with OTA. Just keep the direction on the cable the same and don't put it outdoors.

I'm running an H20 with the AT9 dish and am getting MPEG4 locals....I do not have the BBC installed. I assume the BBC will be required for some future satellite?

DirecTV 10 and 11 which launch next year will transmit signals in the Ka-lo frequency band and then you will need the b-band converters.

I'm running an H20 with the AT9 dish and am getting MPEG4 locals....I do not have the BBC installed. I assume the BBC will be required for some future satellite?

I have been getting HD locals (99 sat) for a year without the b-band converter. You don't need it. I have no idea why.

Just like Tex said, it will be needed when more channels are added after the new satellites go up.

In both the 99 and 103 slots, DirecTV has been allocated 1,000 Mhz of bandwidth. They are presently integrating it into their AT9 system by boosting the upper 500 Mhz to intermediate frequencies that are somewhere above 1,450, and shifting the lower 500 Mhz to 250 to 750Mhz. I believe that all the reports here are that, so far, all HD locals channels are on transponders in the upper 500 Mhz. The selection of Ka satellites and polarities is made by the same technology as for the Ku satellites, with which they have been diplexed.

For what it is worth, DirecTV will be holding its first public seminar on its newest one-wire system in Las Vegas in early January, and from the description in the e-mail I received, it will be more flexible than the system presently used by NAS to squeeze all five of the Ku bands into one coax. WE may ultimately find that there is additional submerged technology in the AT9 system that allows for more frequency agility than it now displays. In particular, DirecTV is claiming that the new system will allow one coax to support two tuners, which it couldn't do with any known capability of its present hardware offerings.

Using the B-Band converter shouldn't lower signal levels; the signal strength on the H20 is GENERALLY in the 60s to low-mid-70s.....somewhat lower than the H10, but it's relative...and NOT a cause for concern......

The signal strenghth on all Directv receivers must be over 70 in order to get a good picture , this signal can gets down when it is raining or heavy winds.

Great news:

The B-Band Converter knows as BBC will be very necessary on November or December 2007 because Directv will provide 150 HD nationals channels.So if you have not this BBC you will not see these channels.
:)

Regards,

Sam

For what it's worth, when I was having trouble with my remote control on my old 3 LNB receiver and called D* for a new one, they told me that they wanted to upgrade my equipment, including a new 5 LNB antenna and receiver. So, I inquired as to how much that would cost me, and I was told $20. Yes $20 and that included installation. So, I ordered the equipment, and 2 installers came out, took down the old 3 LNB dish and installed a new 5 LNB dish and a new receiver. I checked my monthly bill, and there was a one-time charge for $20. So, you might consider returning the H20 receiver and contact D*. Only problem is I didn't get the B BAnd converter. I didn't know I needed one until I received a email from D*. I called and they are sending one out, free of charge. Now I don't have the HD DVR, but I'll get one one of these days, and probably free, just like I got the regular DVR (TIVO) from D*. I'll be getting anoter HDTV soon for the bedroom, and I'll use the old HD receiver that the installers left with the card in it. D* tells me that I can use it in place of the regular receiver by just calling them.

You will need the BBC modules when the new sats go up, to receive all the new National
H/D programming. You can get them for free from D* if for some reason you don't have
them..........
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P4200018

For what it's worth, when I was having trouble with my remote control on my old 3 LNB receiver and called D* for a new one, they told me that they wanted to upgrade my equipment, including a new 5 LNB antenna and receiver. So, I inquired as to how much that would cost me, and I was told $20. Yes $20 and that included installation. So, I ordered the equipment, and 2 installers came out, took down the old 3 LNB dish and installed a new 5 LNB dish and a new receiver. I checked my monthly bill, and there was a one-time charge for $20. So, you might consider returning the H20 receiver and contact D*. Only problem is I didn't get the B BAnd converter. I didn't know I needed one until I received a email from D*. I called and they are sending one out, free of charge. Now I don't have the HD DVR, but I'll get one one of these days, and probably free, just like I got the regular DVR (TIVO) from D*. I'll be getting anoter HDTV soon for the bedroom, and I'll use the old HD receiver that the installers left with the card in it. D* tells me that I can use it in place of the regular receiver by just calling them.

Did you receive a receiver replacement, sometimes tha Dish upgrade has a cost ($49), depends of your credit record it will be free. The HD-DVR receiver costs $750 but if you are agreed about 2 years commitment with D* you will need to pay $299 only.The B. Band Converter is free adding your HD receiver. If you install an HD-DVR you will need 2 B.Band Converters because the HD-DVR has 2 satellite cables from your dish.The B.Band converter is only neccessary with HD receivers. :)

Regards,

Sam

The B-band converter is only required to receive satellite 99. Satellite 103 is block downed to 1650 to 2150 MHz which the newer IRDs can process. This intermediate frequency is called the A-band by DIRECTV. Satellite 99 is blocked down to 250 to 750MHz and is called the B-band. This oddly enough does corresponds to an international frequency spectrum of 500 to 1000 MHz called the b-band. When 22 KHz tone is turn on, the b-band converter blocks the A-band (satellite 103) and up converts the B-band to A-band. The receiver process the B-band as an A-band signal.
The B-band converter is NOT a DiSEqC device.

The B-band converter is only required to receive satellite 99. Satellite 103 is block downed to 1650 to 2150 MHz which the newer IRDs can process. This intermediate frequency is called the A-band by DIRECTV. Satellite 99 is blocked down to 250 to 750MHz and is called the B-band. This oddly enough does corresponds to an international frequency spectrum of 500 to 1000 MHz called the b-band. When 22 KHz tone is turn on, the b-band converter blocks the A-band (satellite 103) and up converts the B-band to A-band. The receiver process the B-band as an A-band signal.
The B-band converter is NOT a DiSEqC device.

This does not quite make sense to me. When you generate the 22Khz tone, 103 is one of the LNBs that is selected, there is no 99 signal coming from the dish on that particular cable. So if the BBC blocked the 103 signal, there would be no signal from either satellite.
According to the FCC license documents, DirecTV10 is authorized to be at 102.8W and will transmit in the Ka b-band (18.3 to 18.8 GHz). DirecTV11 is authorized to the 99 slot (not sure exactly where) and will also transmit in the Ka b-band (18.3 to 18.8 Ghz). So the transmitted frequencies for both satellites will be in the same band, and must both be upconverted to where they would be if they were in the a-band (19.7 to 20.2 Ghz).

And DirecTV says you will need the b-band converters as soon as DirecTV10 starts transmitting, and DirecTV10 is going to 103 so unless I have missed something your explanation does not seem correct.


here's the DirecTV10 license grant http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=421286 and the DirecTV11 application http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-73809 both stating the frequency range as being 18.3 to 18.8 Ghz

Since there are locals from both 99 and 103 right now and the B Band is not in use yet, the explanation can't be accurate.

Since there are locals from both 99 and 103 right now and the B Band is not in use yet, the explanation can't be accurate.
Agreed. The Spaceway satellites at 99 and 103 today deliver signals in the Ka-a band. This will continue. Signals from the 99 satellites are never carried on the same cable as signals from the 103 satellites. When there are two satellites at the 99 location, they will look like one satellite to the receiver, with the higher numbered transponders coming from DirecTV11, and similarly for the 103 location with the higher numbered transponders coming from DirecTV10. . I assume the b-band converters shift the b-band signals into the high end of a-band and leave the low end a-band signals untouched, so the receiver can see all the transponders, but I haven't seen any design details and could be completely wrong.

I have been following this thread and I have not seen a completely correct answer to the B-Band question. I apologize in advance if I missed it...I am new to this forum and I could have missed it.

A quick summary:
The AU9 Slim Line dish has 4 cables. Placing 18VDC on a cable gets you 99/101LHCP. Placing 13VDC on another cables gives you 99/101RHCP. Placing 18VDC with 22KHz tone on another cable gives you 103/110/119LHCP. Placing 13VDC with 22KHz tone on the last cable gives you 103/110/119RHCP. The receiver handles all of this for you obviously.

On each cable there are three "bands" used by DIRECTV. 250-750MHz called the B-Band range, 950-1450MHz called the L-Band range, and 1650-2150MHz called the A-Band range.

The satellite receiver can only make use of the 950-1450MHz L-Band range and the 1650-2150MHz A-Band range. The B-Band converter takes the B-Band range of 250-750MHz and upconverts it to the A-Band range. It does this if it gets (13-18VDC) DC voltage and the DISEQ signal (which I would love it if someone could post all they know of DISEQ)

99 B-Band is not active yet. 99 A-Band (HD locals, 103A-Band (HD locals), 103B-Band (most of the newer HD channels), and of course 101/110/119.

If any of you are getting HD channels without the B-Band converter installed these are legacy MPEG2 HD channels on either 110 or 119 sats unless its an HD local which is off 99 or 103A-Band

I am after any and all information that describes the specifications of DISEQ.

Thanks

Fact is, the satellites at 99 and 103 have an extra 500 MHz of spectrum that was intended for satellite internet service and not intended for television. The satellite internet service was disabled and, unfortunately for DirecTV, that extra 500 MHz cannot be used for broadcast television on the Spaceway satellite platform. DirecTV-10 and DirecTV-11 are to be launched at 99 and 103 and will broadcast the extra 500 MHz alongside the old Spaceway satellites. The problem is that existing subscriber equipment, like the Spaceway satellites, were not intended to use the extra 500 MHz for television. The block downconverter in all customer equipment can and do receive these signals but they convert them to the new 500 MHz frequency range down into the lower 250-750 MHz range, but the receivers cannot use that signal. The B-band converter moves the signal up to 1650-2150 MHz so it "looks" like any ordinary Ka-band signal to the receiver. It also has the added benefit of preserving four-receiver setups without adding an extra switch.

I might add that this solution has not been totally perfect. You can find out more at http://satelliteguys.us/ and my local cable company has been sending letters about the supposed problems with the B-band converter solution.

B-band converters also preclude the use of a diplexor because the B-band conflicts with OTA television.

The AU9 and WB switches may be "smart" enough to respond to either voltage/22KHz "brute force" tone, or to DiSEqC commands. The last time I set up some H20s, there was a step in the guided setup that I didn't think was there before in which, after selecting a dish type, the customer selects between switch types 6x8 or 4x4 and the default setting is 6x8.

I had set up a kludge system in which I was using Hughes 2x1 tone switches and the internal destackers in the H20s, but the H20 was looking for a 6x8 switch and during the signal test, the evens kept switching off and on. I'm sure that was because it was sending out DiSEqC commands. I was able to make my kludge system work by selecting a 4x4 switch.

(Actually, this story doesn't have a real happy ending. DirecTV then disabled the internal L-band destackers in the H20s, so I would up giving this customer 3 external destackers to restore their service).

Some company had produced a really comprehensive tutorial on DiSEqC to which I had stored a link, and when they eliminated those pages, so many people contacted them to complain that they reposted them somewhere esle. If no one finds a DiSEqC tutorial by this evening, I'll pore through my ungrouped favorite pages and see if I can find it.

Well, since I started this thread back in January 06.....

I thought I would ask a question. The HR20 I have in the living room can only receive about half of the new HD channels that D* is now offering. For those I can't receive, I just get a blank screen followed by video "garbage." This is odd because all of my signals from the satellites are in the 80's and 90's, including 103(b). I checked this on both tuners in the HR20.

I have a H20 in the bedroom and it receives all of the new HD channels just fine. So, I doubt it is a satellite signal strength or aiming issue. I decided to order two new BBC modules for the HR20 and installed them, but there is no change. The HR20 can only tune in about half of the new HD channels.

I decided to call D* and they are coming out in a week or so to check out my system to try to determine what is wrong. I have the "sidecar" type dish and there is no OTA or any other line diplexed with the satellite lines. In fact, when D* upgraded my system, I had them run a separate coax from my OTA antenna to the back of the HR20 just to avoid any problems (plus I got whole lot better OTA signal strengths).

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what may be happening in my situation? The HR20 is otherwise fine, records all of the programs I ask it to, and checks out fine.

Thanks.

There should be a BBC on each Sat input.

That's a question I had too. The instructions for the BBC connectors say, "A BBC module should never be used in a system that contains a Frequency Transition Module (FTM) as the equivalent function is already contained in the FTM. The back of the HR20 and the Satellite In 1 input has (FTM) in parenthesis. Does this mean I shouldn't use the BBC connector? Thanks!

The new name for the FTM is the SWM, Single wire multiswitch. They are not yet available to the general public. Use the BBC. If you ever get an SWM, it will be part of the cabling system. It is not in the receiver.

Put it away somewhere you won't lose it, you won't need it til you get the AT9 5 LNB dish.
I have the 5 LNB dish. However, when I connect the module inline with the cable to input 1, the receiver searches for signal (771) but never acquires it. I remove the module and receive all HD channels. Is there a rational explanation for that from anyone? Is this module necessary now or for future use?

I have the 5 LNB dish. However, when I connect the module inline with the cable to input 1, the receiver searches for signal (771) but never acquires it. I remove the module and receive all HD channels. Is there a rational explanation for that from anyone? Is this module necessary now or for future use?

Welcome to the AVS Forum and this thread for your first post! It would help us help you if you told us what model receiver you have and where you attached the BBC. Directly to the box? Are the two short cables attached firmly to the BBC module? (In other words, no movement.)

Thanks. :)

Dana

Hello from France !
I known that this product is quite obsolete now for you
But as a Radio amateur I got some to be used for radio amateur reception
438 Mhz translated to 1838 Mhz ...
I have just one question.
I red in the manual that this unit is always in the A Band mode at power on time !
As we need to use it in the B Band mod, my question is ...
How to tell this unit to Switch between thoses two modes ?
is it a 22 khz commande (I try without succes)
or is it a Diseq command, but which one ?
disecq will send "order" to remove devices such as Switch and so on ..
anybody knows ?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Francois

Are you referring to these?

http://www.solidsignal.com/images/scontent/SUP-2400_H20.gif

They are far from obsolete for Directv use, I think you may be referring to a different device.

hello,
As I said, this is just to use it for radio amateur use !
I didn't find how to commut the two mode A band and B band mode !
22 khz gives nothing and I have no equipment to generate special command i disecq mode ..
So if somebody knows, I would appreciate !
thanks

Are you referring to the Directv BBC or not? You stated the device in question was obsolete which isn't the case with these. It uses the same 22khz signal to activate the BBC.

I just got a HR22 DVR and I am unable to get it to receive a signal at all. I've installed a 5 LNB dish and I've adjusted as the manual says. It gets a strong signal based on an older tivo unit that uses 101 and 103 and all the channels come through, so I know I'm aimed correctly for 101 and 103. I'm confused as to why the HR22 doesn't see them.

After poking around I see these B-band converters and I don't have them. I wonder if that is the problem?

So I may have made a mistake when I wrote 101 and 103. I'm not in front of the unit now and am working from memory as to what Sats had signal. What I see are the only two satellittes this early tivo unit is able to tune to.

Just a note for those who, like me, would like a spare BBC just in case...

Twice now I've ordered BBCs on the D* web site. The first time - maybe a month ago - I ordered two; the second time - maybe two weeks ago - I ordered one. I have not received any. :(

Dana