Ok, my curiosity got the better of me today and I ordered the PHD-101. Total cost with shipping was $179.70. The unit says it does ATSC and QAM, but it also mentions here and there NTSC. It'll be interesting to see if it does NTSC or not. I also plan to open it up and I'll post pics when I get it. I'll compare it to my current LG LST-4200a and my Sylvania SRZ3000.

www.epvision.com
www.epboard.com
www.primedtv.com

I received mine yesterday. The outside packaging is not very good quality and the remote is very flimsy. Performance wise, it found all 17 locals here (Minneapolis) and it seems to be equal to if not better than my LG 3510 (given very limited viewing). Right now I'm using the component outs to my Sanyo Z2. DVI will come soon when my HDMI switch arrives.
As far as I can tell it does not receive NTSC.

Andy

Anyone else try it?

My unit should be here on Monday, so I'll have my thoughts posted then.

Well, I got the unit today and so far it is average for a box, with things I like and things I don't like. For the OTA part, I think it is a good ATSC only tuner.

The only thing that I don't really like about it is that the autoscan has to find the channel for the unit to tune to that channel. Once it finds channels, you can then add or remove the channels from the channel list. There is a neat button, "List", that will bring up a list off all avaliable channels and you can just select the one you want. You are able to tune to a channel or a specific sub-channel.

The EPG only brings up the current channel with no guide screen for all channels. The remote seems to be the exact remote that is used with the Hisense tuner, except for different colors, etc. Channel changing speed seems to be quite quick.

For the QAM part, I am not so impressed. The first time scanning through my channels, it picked up over 320 channels. Most of those are encrypted, are my music choice or other audio only channels, and are the neighbors OnDemand movies. On this first scan, it did not pick up the 3 clear QAM channels I do get. So I think ok, maybe something is wrong so I reconnect my 4200a and it is working fine. So i rescan with the PHD box and it finds the channels this time. One quirk with the QAM side is that you cannot tune to a specific sub channel, only a main channel. This means that to listen to sub-channel 28 of my music choice channel, I have to punch in 63 (my music choice channel), then channel down 28 times to get to that channel. What a pain. This box will automatically add all the encrypted channels to the lineup, so I manually have to go back in and delete them. The 4200a would automatically not show those channels in the lineup. Another thing I don't like about the QAM tuner is that it takes forever to do a channel scan, and it doesn't save a channel list for QAM and ATSC. So for me, when I switch between cable and air, it takes forever, whereas the 4200a just switches the channel listings it is using.

All of that may seem harsh, but since it has usb, most of those problems are in the software which should be upgradable via the usb.

I mainly got it as an ATSC box for an LCD I'm planning on buying, and needed an ATSC box with DVI. I'm quite happy with the ATSC part of the box, with the one minor problem of having to have the channel in the lineup prior to being able to tune to that channel.

I'll post more thoughts as I use the box.

http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Front800x600.jpg (http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Front1600x1200.jpg)

http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Back800x600.jpg (http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Back1600x1200.jpg)

http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Packaging800x600.jpg (http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Packaging1600x1200.jpg)

http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Accessories800x600.jpg (http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Accessories1600x1200.jpg)

http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Inside800x600.jpg (http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Inside1600x1200.jpg)

http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Mobo800x600.jpg (http://12.227.129.113/PHD-101/Mobo1600x1200.jpg)

The tuner is the Alps TDHU2, same as my Sylvania 6900DTE OTA STB, AVER TVHD MCE A180 PCI card and some versions of the ATI AIR2PC-ATSC-PCI card.

It contains the ATI NXT2004 ATSC/QAM DECODER chip: equalizer capability -8 to +45 usec.

Unfortunately, it isn't in the same class as ATI's latest THEATER chip.

I've come across some other little quirks, but don't really affect me to much.

The first is when you use the aspect button to change the aspect of SD material to Cinema mode, and then change to an HD channel, the HD channel is streched vertically just a slight bit. By pressing aspect again, restores the HD pic to correct proportions. This only happens in the Cinema aspect, Normal, Full, and Zoom do not affect an HD picture.

The other problem is that when you select 480i output, the screen size is still set at 16:9 with no aspect control for HD programs. When hooked to an analog TV, HD pictures are shown in a 4:3 window, streched vertically. Since I wont be hooking the unit to an analog TV, this doesn't affect me.

Micro-ATX is looking better and better to me ;)

Does the QAM tuning of the PHD-101 go all the way up to 135, or does it stop at 125 like
the Samsung SIR-T451?

So far the PHD-101 looks like a step backward from the T451 as far as usability goes. But if the QAM tuning is full range, I might get one anyway just to recover the channels that Comcast moved out of my T451's range.

Yes, it goes all the way to 135. You also have the choice of STD, IRC, and HRC for the cable band. I'm going to test out their customer support and email them about some of the problems. It seems like most all the usability flaws could be fixed via a firmware update. If so, this box could be a really good performer.

The tuner is the Alps TDHU2, same as my Sylvania 6900DTE OTA STB, AVER TVHD MCE A180 PCI card and some versions of the ATI AIR2PC-ATSC-PCI card.

It contains the ATI NXT2004 ATSC/QAM DECODER chip: equalizer capability -8 to +45 usec.

Unfortunately, it isn't in the same class as ATI's latest THEATER chip.


Where did you find this info? Was this based on the photos that were posted in this thread earlier?

The above photos clearly show the Alps TDHU2 Tuner Module, which I immediately recognized as being same as in my Sylvania 6900DTE OTA STB.

If you Google "Alps TDHU2", you'll find that various LINUX folk have run across the same Tuner Module in the aforementioned PCI Tuner Cards,
which then leads to info re what is inside when they view the associated LINUX software driver software.

You should also find an Excel (*.xls) file: TUNER MODULES, which I posted with info I have gleaned from various websites on what
is contained in various Tuner Modules, STB's and PCI Cards.

===================================
FYI: If you are a UberGeek with a high speed connection (or you disable images), you might find the fol. website of interest.
It has photos, chip identification and selected LINUX driver code excepts for what appears to be any and all PCI Tuner Cards---WORLDWIDE:
http://www.bttv-gallery.de/
The end of the file has info on a few USB Tuners and a brief, incomplete tuner identification "decoder"....of sorts...

The above photos clearly show the Alps TDHU2 Tuner Module, which I immediately recognized as being same as in my Sylvania 6900DTE OTA STB.

Thanks for the info...

I also had a Sylvania 6900DTE, but I'm returning it to get something with QAM capability. I was pretty happy with the Sylvania, but I kept having intermittent problems with my local OTA FOX affiliate, which was broadcasting at a relatively high UHF frequency (58). I'm going to play around with my antenna some more, but I wanted QAM as backup in case I decide to try for HD over basic cable.

Sorry for the broken picture links. I'm currently switching from MS IIS to Suse/Apache so most of my web content isn't working right now. I'll have them back up in a day or so.

I emailed epvision yesterday to ask if the PHD-101 supported NTSC in addition to ATSC and QAM. Here's their response:

"Thank you very much for your email. PHD-101 can only do digital signals, not NTSC in this moment. I apologize for that. Another model will be due on summer time should have NTSC reception capability."

Unless a great deal on one of the LG 4200a's falls into my lap, it looks like I'll wait until this new unit makes an appearance.

Well, I hooked up the unit via an optical cable today, but found out that there is no sound via the optical port. I emailed them about that and the other glitches I found. I stated that if they cannot be fixed, I'll have to return the unit. Hopefully, I'll hear back soon.

hmm... that isn't very reassuring. I ended up ordering one today :(

Hopefully this isn't a problem common to all units. I see there is no coax audio out, either.

Well, by looking around the epboard site, it looks like they are more into the oem market, which could be a good thing. I think that it might be easier to get into contact with the actual engineers with a company like this, whereas a company like LG or Samsung, you gotta go through stupid sales reps. Since photawn got an email response in one day, hopefully I do to. I emailed the design link instead of the sales link.

As far as the optical out goes, there is defnitely a red light shining out of the port, but just no sound. That tells me that the port itself is working, but that it isn't sending out anything useful.

oryan_dunn,

on a somewhat unrelated note, have you had any luck getting a universal remote to work with the box?

I haven't even tried. I've got a learning Philips that will probably work it after I program it, but I haven't tried any of the precoded codes. I don't want to loose all my 4200a learned buttons just yet.

o_d, I hope you get the same quick response I got. Full disclosure, though: I emailed the sales link. They tend to jump on things a bit faster because it means mo' money...engineers tend to hang back a bit because it means mo' work. :)

Looking forward to following your evaluation...

My god, I can't believe how little there is inside of that thing! They just keep getting smaller and smaller...

Well, I hooked up the unit via an optical cable today, but found out that there is no sound via the optical port. I emailed them about that and the other glitches I found. I stated that if they cannot be fixed, I'll have to return the unit. Hopefully, I'll hear back soon.
FYI: When I first plugged my Sylvania 6900DTE OTA STB into my Sony Surround Receiver, it recognized the DD5.1 signal coming in via either coax or optical input,
but I never heard anything. It would even change between DD5.1 for surround programs and DD2.0 for commercials.
Funai Service Center found something, "fixed" it and returned the unit....but still no-go.

I finally got the coax/optical output to work after replacing my old Sony with a new Pioneer Receiver.

From your profile, it appears that you are using different equipment....but the DD chips might be the same....

You should try the PHD-101 with a couple other Surround Receivers to see if there might be an underlying incompatibility problem....

Well, by looking around the epboard site, it looks like they are more into the oem market, which could be a good thing. I think that it might be easier to get into contact with the actual engineers with a company like this, whereas a company like LG or Samsung, you gotta go through stupid sales reps.

I know what you mean... it reminds me of Momitsu with their DVD players. The engineers had been very responsive IIRC.


I had no problems with optical audio out with the Sylvania 6900DTE and my Harmon Kardon receiver, so maybe I'm in luck.

My god, I can't believe how little there is inside of that thing! They just keep getting smaller and smaller...

Thats what I thought. It looks like most of it is handled in the chip in the center. It does have 2 chips of Samsung RAM for a total of 64MB of RAM. Pretty soon, they'll probably be able to get all the processing on a chip the same size as the actual tuner.

You should try the PHD-101 with a couple other Surround Receivers to see if there might be an underlying incompatibility problem....

I'll give that a whirl, but if that works, then I would still need to return it, since I'm not going to get a new audio receiver (although I really want one that can do dts and dplII).

Micro-ATX is looking better and better to me ;)

Did you mean that an HTPC is looking better for you? I've been torn between the ease-of-use STBs but there seem to be issues with them. An HTPC has issues as well but the added functionality is compelling. I've heard MCE is pretty good, relatively simple to configure/install, and has high WAF.

mike

Well, I got an email response today. Here is my original email:

Hi,

I have several problems with my PHD-101 that I hope can be resolved via a firmware update. Will you be releasing firmware updates for this unit? And if you are, will it be downloadable and installable by the user? It seems with the USB port that you could either download the firmware to a USB key for installation or connect the unit to a PC. I have owned a Hisense tuner that allowed firmware updates via a USB stick.

The first problem I have with my unit is there is no output over the optical output. The red light is there, but there is no sound on my receiver. I’ve tried both Dolby Digital and PCM options in the menu, but neither one works. My receiver is capable of receiving both formats.

The second problem is if I am tuned to an SD channel and set the aspect ratio to Cinema, when I change to and HD channel, the HD channel is stretched vertically. I need to press the aspect key once to get the HD picture back to normal. This behavior is not present if the SD picture is on Normal, Stretch, or Zoom prior to changing to an HD channel.

If these problems cannot be resolved, I will be returning the unit for a refund.

Thanks,

Ryan

and their response:
Hi Ryan,

Thank you very much for your email and apologize for the inconvenience. You are right. Those issues for sure are firmware upgradeable. I am working with our engineers to see if we can release new firmware very quick. Please if you can wait, let me get back to you sometime next week. Either we will release new firmware in time or you can return the unit back to us.

Regards,
Support Team

ePVision.com

Well so far so good

I had the same problem as Ryan and returned the unit. It is too bad as the picture quality and the tuner seem quite good. Hopefully they will be able to fix the problems soon.

Did you mean that an HTPC is looking better for you? I've been torn between the ease-of-use STBs but there seem to be issues with them. An HTPC has issues as well but the added functionality is compelling. I've heard MCE is pretty good, relatively simple to configure/install, and has high WAF.

mike

Yeah, the new nvidia 6150 chipset microATX motherboards with integrated HTPC video, Raid 5, firewire, SATA II, Gigabit lan, built in sound, etc for ~$90 can really twist your head around. It's a two chip northbridge southbridge design with no noisy chipset fans (just heatsinks). Add a HDTV tuner card and you've got your STB, and a decent DVD player (multi-disk if you want, cheap), maybe a PVR, plus a back up computer system in case your main box develops problems. They're making it real easy.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8NGM2-FID&class=mb

I think I'll pick up one of these soon. I have a Sharp aquos LCD with a built in ATSC tuner but unfortunately no QAM tuner or cablecard.

Well, good news. I've been in contact with a guy from epvision and he's sending me out a new firmware today on a USB stick. He said it should be here tomorrow. I'll update the unit and let you guys know. I think this update is only supposed to fix the optical problem. He said the engineer were still looking into the aspect problem.

Well, I got the firmware update, but the update didn't seem to work as the instructions stated. I emailed them back stating my problem. After attempting the firmware upgrade, my unit no longer works at all. All this was in my email. The cool thing is I got a phone call from a guy at epvision to ask me more about the upgrade (he must have got my phone number off my order sheet). He wasn't sure what the problem could have been, but he emailed me a new firmware to try again. Unfortunately, this didn't work either, so he is rushing me a new unit with the upgraded firmware. Now, even thought the box hasn't worked properly, I'm still very impressed with their customer service. After having dealt with the likes of Samsung and Philips, this is a very refreshing break. I could tell I was talking to someone who actually knew his sh1t on the subject. As always, I'll keep you all posted.


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What's the GUI like on that thing? Is it possible for you to take a screen shot of the menu, or maybe the guide?

I'm seriously considering this box, especially after reading about how great the customer support has been. But I can't stand the ugly/poorly designed user interfaces I've seen on a few other boxes. So I was kind of curious about what this one looks like.

go to www.epvision.com and download the manual. It has tons of screenshots that show what it looks like. The thing about the guide (at least currently) is that it only shows the current channel your on. I emailed my contact a long list of features that could be implemented in firmware for this box. Lets just say that if they get even half of them, this will be an outstanding box. I also gave suggestions for the next revision, such as having two coax inputs for both cable and air at the same time. If they added that feature, it would already be years ahead of most other boxes.


...type one out, 23 more avs forum posts to go...

Let us know after you tried the new unit. I like to get one.

D'oh! I've been to that page three times now, and never saw the manual there at the bottom.

Looks pretty nice. The guide thing bothers me a little. But I bet it'll be changed within the next couple of firmware versions. It looks like they actually, dare I say it, care about what their customers think! It's very refreshing.

Did everyone here order it directly from ePVision?

Is the video quality about equal to a MyHD or HiPix card?

Thanks,
Ben

I ordered one Thursday, and I expect it to be delivered sometime tomorrow --- but what's great is, down in the TINY TINY "comments" box during the order, I asked if my unit would have the firmware upgrades.


... and mere moments after I placed my order, I had a response:


Thanks for ordering our PHD-101. The unit you will receive will have optical audio enabled.



Thanks again!



Support Team

ePVision / ePBoard

email: support@epvision.com

Tel: (714) 630-6839


Awesome. I can't wait to test it out.

Well................... at least their customer service is good.

The QAM isn't nearly as awesome as I had hoped. It artifacts for me like crazy.

And with only a handful [ maybe 20 ] channels that actually work out of 395, it is quite a pain to delete the channels, since there isn't a way to delete the channel you are currently tuned to without scrolling through the list of available channels.

The OTA is just fine, but my TV already does that anyway.

I'm not resenting my purchase by any means, but "you get what you pay for" certainly applies here.

--- Haz

Most of the issues with this box are software related. That issue that you bring up is one that I wrote about in my email of suggestions. When I get a chance, I'll post my email of suggestions here, so you all can know what the box doesn't quite do so well at. But, most of the issues are software related, and not hardware.

...type one out, read it aloud, 19 more avs forum posts to go...

I got my replacement unit today. The optical port works just fine. Anyways, here is a list of all the improvements I suggested to their design team:
These are listed in category, but each category is in no particular order.


Remote Control:

1. It seems that there are two buttons that are unused at the moment. One is at the top center and the other the bottom right of the remote.

2. Program the bottom right button as a mirror to the “OK” button so that when someone enters a channel, they can quickly hit the lower right button to accept the channel change, instead of having to wait or move their hand and press the center OK button.
The top center button would be great if it were programmed to show the current signal strength. One press could bring up a small onscreen meter, which would be very easy to get to and helpful for aiming an antenna.




ATSC:

1. It would be helpful if you could tune to a channel not currently in the channel list. If the user enters a channel that was not in the list (as found by auto scan), the unit should take the channel number to mean the RF frequency channel and tune to that channel. This is useful when the unit cannot detect a channel due to the aiming of the antenna. With this feature, the user could enter the RF channel of a known digital station and use the signal strength button mentioned above to fine tune the antenna. For example, channel 55.1 (RF 36.1) is a particularly weak station, that I cannot tune with the PHD unit since I am unable to fine tune an antenna and the auto scan does not detect it. In this case, I could press “3 6 . 1” and have the unit tune to RF 36 and look for a digital signal.


2. On the channel list, if you could store the current program names as given by the PSIP stream of each digital station so that the channel list would not only show the name of the channel, but also the current program name; that would be very helpful.




QAM:

1. Currently, I am unable to tune to a specific sub-channel when using the QAM tuner. For example, channel 100.1 is my digital PBS and 100.2 is my digital CBS. I can only push “1 0 0 enter” to tune to channel 100.1 then I must press channel down to get to channel 100.2. This is very frustrating on my Music Choice channels as I cannot press, for example, “63.28”, I must push 63, then channel down 28 times. This is very annoying to say the least.


2. On my cable system, there are several unencrypted QAM channels, but there are far more encrypted QAM channels. On channel detection, the PHD unit finds roughly 320 channels, only 3 of which are HD channels and a handful are music stations. That leaves around 200-250 encrypted channels that do me no good by being in the channel list. The unit should be able to detect which ones are encrypted and automatically remove them from the channel list as it is scanning for channels.




Both formats (ATSC & QAM):

1. Onscreen menus should have a timeout associated with them, similar to the display when changing channels. If I press the list button, the list display will remain until I press list again, or the clear button. This could cause serious burn-in if left like this. List applies to the Menu, Guide, and List functions.


2. On the channel list, when I press list, the cursor should default to the station I’m currently on. As it is, it defaults to the top item. This isn’t a big deal or OTA programming, but on my cable list, there are well over 100 channels, and if I am on channel 70 and want to go to 75, I’d have to scroll down 75 times.


3. The display of channel number, resolution, audio format, and channel name should show the Dolby Digital format, such as 2.0 or 5.1. This would be a nice convenience factor. So the display instead of “Dolby Digital” could say “DD 5.1” or “DD 2.0”.


4. On channels above channel 6 (channel 7 and above) for OTA and channels above 13 (channel 14 and above) for QAM should allow me to press the channel number followed by a sub-channel number without the need for a press of the “.” button. Since there are no channels above 69 for OTA, pressing “ 2 1 1 “ should automatically select channel 21.1. For the cable, there are no channels above 135, so pressing “1 4 1” should select channel 14.1. Channels below this will still require a press of the “.” button since “6 1 1” could either be channel 6.11 or 61.1.


5. The timeout delay for the information screen could be shorted from 15 seconds (which seems kind of long) to something like 8 seconds. A delay of 15 seconds could still be implemented for other onscreen information such as the guide, menu, and channel list, as those are not automatically put on the screen by a channel change.


6. Another feature that would be nice is that if you scan for an OTA channel list, then scan for a QAM list, the unit would not lose the OTA list. When the user selects an “Antenna” scan, the unit could prompt the user to use the previous list, or to scan for a new one. This way users that switch back and forth between cable and OTA, could just select no to the rescan and use the previous list. I myself have an A/B switch for cable and antenna, and this feature is quite nice on my LG LST-4200a. An idea for a future box, and one that would net you a great deal of sales, is have two coax inputs and store an ATSC and QAM list at the same time, allowing the user to seamlessly go from a cable to OTA channel. I’m a member of several online forums, and this feature is one of the most requested features of an HDTV tuner. Currently, I know of no tuner only (not DVR units) that has this feature. It would be a great opportunity for your company.


7. When the unit goes into standby, the LED on the front remains an amber color. It would be very helpful if when the unit is in standby that the LED would turn red. I have a hunch that it was designed originally to do this, as after I use the power button on the front, the LED is red for a short time until it boots up and turns on.


8. It would be helpful to program the front buttons of “UP” and “Down” on the unit to change channels. Since they do nothing when the menu is not displayed, it would be a nice fall back if you could not find the remote.


Future hardware revisions for the next model:



1. As I stated above, it would be nice to have two coaxial inputs, one for cable and the other for OTA. This would increase the selling point of the box tremendously.


2. Implement a tri-state LED on the front panel for the signal strength: Red for 0-30%, Yellow for 30-70%, and Green for 70-100%. This way, at one glance of a small light, the user can tell the current signal strength.


3. Label the LEDs on the front panel so that the user knows what each one does.


4. Rearrange the Up, Down, Left, and Right buttons on the front panel in a cross for a more intuitive layout.


5. Add a small LCD display that displays the current channel, or time. Let the user choose which he prefers in the menu.


6. Add an NTSC tuner for backwards compatibility with cable systems that have many analog channels still, and will continue to have analog channels, well after the FCC Analog OTA shutoff date.

That's a near perfect set of suggestions. I really can't think of anything that would be useful other than maybe when you press the "add/delete" button in addition to when you press the "list" button it wouldn't start you at the top of the channels list, it would just add/delete the current channel instead.

Of course, in QAM mode, if it would only catch the unencrypted channels, there would be much less of a need for that function.

Great list... I hope they take those items into consideration. That would make the product much more enjoyable to use.

Received the update USB. No problems performing the update, very quick. Optical audio now works. Austin City Limits is now even more a joy to watch and listen to.

Sent the following back with the USB, most matches Oryan:

Update fixed the Optical audio output. Thank you.

Future PHD-101 revision suggestions

1. “realtime” signal strength bar.
a. when in channel monitor, to allow changing through the channel list for
monitoring, assists in antenna mounting

2. Channel list
a. add broadcasted channel id, ie. KVOA, KOLD, WB, Food, ESPN, etc
b. channel access via list using OK button
c. add non previous scanned channel
d. add/del with left/right buttons and confirm with OK, cancel with down button

3. Channel scan
a. with cable scan, option to save or skip encrypted channels

4. Time set from broadcast station
a. selectable station to set time (usually PBS channels most reliable)


Next generation suggestions

1. Channel with simultaneous Time display, blue led preferred
a. Channel display with option to display channel id instead of number
b. Time display 12hr or 24hr option

2. Improve status leds from one to four
a. green power led
b. three signal strength leds green 0-35, yellow 36-74, red 75-100
sounds opposite, but matches VU meter, tachometer, etc.
Space these three leds one position from power led

3. Dual RF input, one ATSC/NTSC, one Cable
a. add NTSC on cable input, FCC turn off date is always changing
b. separate maintained channel scan lists
c. input selection changed by the “grey” button right of the 0

4. CableCard capable

Has anyone tried to use a harmony remote witht he PHD-101? I have a harmony 880 and haven't been able to find the PHD-101 device on the harmony website. I could always just manually program it but I am lazy.

Have any of these "new" suggested features been implemented via firmware update in the past few months?

Thanks!

I haven't heard anything since the firmware that fixed the optical issue. I actually just emailed them yesterday asking about a new firmware. I'll let you know what I hear.

oryan_dunn; Thanks for the great pics, but $160 for this?: I bet it is imported for $30.

The problems you reported for the QAM tuner were the same I had with the Mits 1080 DLP I had. You spend more time deleting channels (one at a time sub channels) that the time it takes for the scan.

This lack of direct channel entry without doing a scan first is a joke! :mad: It's not just this unit either.

The QAM isn't nearly as awesome as I had hoped. It artifacts for me like crazy. Explain?

Any other input on this unit?

Has any of the above issues been resolved?

I spoke at length to someone at ePBoard regarding issues with this unit.

First off, he said there has been one firmware upgrade to resolve a issue with the digital output. They are now working on a upgrade to fix the sub channel issue. You will be able to directly access a subchannel without just entering the major channel number and then toggleing through all of the sub channels as reported eariler. It should be ready to be released soon.

Regarding the problem that most digital tuners have ID'ing a channel by direct entry without doing a scan first (my huge gripe), unlike analog, digital has much more going on and the tuner needs to see and ID the data through a 'scan'.
Why this can't be done by just directly entering a channel number is the lack of insite of the manufacture that goes under the assumption that everyone doesn't know their true channel numbers in their area (say 43.1 for the digital version of analog channel 17 in my area) and the only way for it to work is doing a scan first that gives you channels you wind up deleting anyway (especially cable). :mad:

What they should do, is any channel that isn't in the lineup, when you punch in a number, will take you to that direct RF channel. Users not in the know, will need to do channel scans to find channels, but people who know the right RF channel could benifit.

That's what logic would dictate, but the Asians seem to think differently.

So I'm taking this as ... it's still a good recommendation and has the same drawbacks as just about every other OTA STB out there eh?

I need to replace an old hughes d* box that I think the tuner is going out on and would like a qam capable box for well.... cheap!

I just received this unit and will post my findings.
First off there is a problem out of the box. The unit rarely boots to a active screen. So far, I am only using composite for testing. I have to power down (via the front panel) wait a few minutes and try booting again.
Second I just realized there are NO front panel channel up/down buttons! :mad: Really bad idea, can't belive anyone would make a tuner without these being available. :rolleyes:
And one of the biggest issues is the aspect control or lack of. It doesn't work on all channels. No idea why it would work on some, but not others. All I get is a narrow 3x3 image. :confused:
It isn't all bad news. I just ran some sensistivity tests and out of the three tuners (this and two TVs') this receiver blew away the others by a long shot.

Previously to this, the other sets I tried, the drop-off was around -38dbmV which is still unbelievable considering -35db is the cutoff point for most SLMs' (Signal Level Meters). A -35db analog signal is barely reconizeable on a TV as it is. :eek:

Pluses;
1. Price.
2. Best sensistivity (so far of any tuner).
3. 8VSB & QAM tuners.
4. Multiple outputs including DVI & VGA.

Minuses;
1. No channel up/down on front panel.
2. No 'stand-by' button on front panel.
3. You can't add channels that aren't in the original scan (major issue with most tuners).
4. NOT SUITABLE FOR 4x3 DISPLAYS! Aspect control doesn't work on HD channels.
5. NO channel display on front panel.
6. On screen menu is very hard to read on a smaller screen.
7. No separate memories for OTA & cable.
8. No on-screen display of volume.
9. Two color LED on front panel doesn't tell you if the set booted properly or if it is 'on' or in 'standby'. It is red for booting and orange any other time.
10. Power consumption is almost as much in 'stand-by' as it is in the 'on' state (.13A vs .19A).

Update on the aspect issue. I posted a general question here;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=675703

The question is; do any other owners have this connected to a 4x3 display (any technology)? :confused:

When I first got mine, I hooked it up to my Dad's 32" Sony, but could not find any way to tell the box it was hooked to a 4:3 tv. I thought maybe the 480i setting took care of it, but it did not. Unless the TV has a 16:9 compress, you'd be sol.

It's too bad 'basic' features aren't supported. The unit goes back....................

I am looking at this unit for my parents. they got a DLP right before they started putting tuners into them. I need QAM since their house is in a terrible location for reception. Ease of use is not really a problem, as long as i can set it up with the local channels so all they have to do is channel up or down is fine.

AS long as it is not a 4x3 display, it should be fine.

Its widescreen. The next issue is making sure that thier cable company transmits unencrypted QAM for the locals. They can't use an antenna.

I'm pretty new to OTA stuff, how does this compare to the legendary LG LST 4200a?

Does this unit have a 4th gen LG tuner inside?

It's not LG. Take a look at that photo from the OP. I forgot what it was.

I'm pretty new to OTA stuff, how does this compare to the legendary LG LST 4200a?

Does this unit have a 4th gen LG tuner inside?
No, it has the ATI NXT2004 ATSC Decoder (3.5+ Gen?) inside an ALPS tuner module:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7077583&#post7077583
Based on very unscientific reports from various users, it is probably not quite as
resistant to multipath as the (4th Gen) LGDT3302 ATSC Decoder chip in the LG LST 4200A.

The latest 5th Gen chips are the ATI THEATER, LG LGDT3303 and a few others.
Unfortunately, other than some of the new HDTV's, PCI Cards, USB receivers and SAT receivers,
none are yet found in OTA STB's and DVR's.

Do you know if any other receivers use the 4th gen LG chip?

How does the Voom satellite receiver perform as an ATSC tuner?

I am looking at three different receivers. Can someone suggest which one to get?

Zenith HD-SAT520
RCA ATSC11
Voom Satellite

Thanks

And to eliminate confusion, after Feb., 2009 the FCC should force broadcasters to map to their true RF channel numbers, instead of mapping to the old analog numbers. But AFAIK, they're not going to do this.... The 'whiners' that belong to the NAB did just that and the NAB put pressure on the FCC, so we are now stuck with this stupid, confusing unnecessary 'mapping' issue. :mad:
The FCC will f*** up anything just as they did in the 70's with the 40 channel CB radio fiasco!

BlueSkyzz; Aren't those all satellite receivers??

Yes, they are satellite receivers but they also work as stand alone ATSC tuners.

How does the Digitalstream STB HD1150 compare to the Zenith?

BlueSkyzz,
it has the same guts as the Radio Shack STB. Try posting your question in this thread discussing it (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=577291&highlight=Digitalstream+STB+HD1150).

I thought this was PHD-101 thread? :confused:

Why buy a satellite tuner for just OTA?

I thought this was PHD-101 thread? :confused:

You know, I was thinking the same thing...

BlueSkyzz, you might get more answers to your questions if you start your own thread, instead of asking them in a thread that a lot of people don't read. Plus, it's kind of rude to take a thread over like this.

Those of you who have upgraded your firmware on this device - what do you show as the version under the System Info menu? I just got the box today, and I'm showing version 1.0.1.

If anyone is still interested in this box, it's also available through Amazon Marketplace... this is nice for me because I had some Amazon.com gift certificates, which I was able to use toward this box, making my out the door price even lower. Here is the link. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F3QR9K/103-4248239-2966257?v=glance&n=172282)

This box looks very hacker-friendly. If I had the money, I'd buy an extra to send to someone to see what they can do with it.

This box looks very hacker-friendly. Because of what?

They need to get the basics right first. You can't even use it with a 4x3 monitor. :mad:

Because of what?

Well, the motherboard contains pinouts for some sort of an expansion card slot, which could be interesting. There's also space for additional RAM, and a header clearly labeled as a serial port. All very interesting to a potential hacker.

IF one could get a schematic.

I just ordered one of these on Monday. They are out of stock until the end of the month. I wonder if I'll get a unit with some new firmware.

As long as you don't use it on a 4x3 display..............
Good luck on the firmware. :mad:

I just got an email from ePVision. I had asked about that new PrimeDTV model someone had mentioned in this thread, and I thought I would post their response:

Thank you for your email. We will have a new model by late summer, which
will equip full feature EPG functions, service provided by Tribune Media,
with HDTV tuner decoder built-in together. However, this model won't have
NTSC. Later by the end of this year, another new model will have NTSC
function built-in. currently, our PHD-101 is sold out, and many more units
will be back to our warehouse at the end of this month. Currently, we will
have "New Inventory Promotion Sales" with additional 10% off of our already
low price ($159.95). You might consider to order one now. After inventory
back in, we will keep the same price ($159.95) back. Thanks again.


Sales Team
PrimeDTV / ePVision.com

this model won't have NTSC. Later by the end of this year, another new model will have NTSC function built-in. This is typical of the Asians (Koreans). They have NO clue what they're doing when it comes to marketing products to the US. :rolleyes:

First off, the current model didn't have a NTSC tuner, then they say the next won't. Ok, it will be gone in less than 3 years anyway.
Now, the third model comes along with the tuner. :confused:
Why? In 2 1/2 years it won't matter except for cable (assuming it will have cable allocation table).

Nothing was mentioned about correcting the 4x3 problem (as usual). Unbelievable. :mad:

Bumpy..

Well the phd-101s are back in stock and I finally got mine shipped. I was wondering if anyone is having the same problem I am. Tuning is fine everything powered up with out a hitch. I hooked the unit up through my Pioneer Elite THX A/V Reciever and I got picture and sound using component and fiber for sound. Then I go into the phd-101 audio setup and switch from PCM to Dolby Digital. That's where the problem comes up. Sound turns off, my reciever shows the dolby digital trade mark logo but it's flashing on and off really fast. I'd like to watch my shows in 5.1 dobly digital, ban't seem to figure out what's wrong.

I know my reciever picks up dolby digital because, it works fine with my dvd player and with my ps2 both hooked up optically, so I don't think my reciever is broken.
So far I've tried to switch inputs, I've tested multiple fiber cables, and I've tried 2 difference sources OTA and CATV both are doing the same thing.
Does anyone have and idea why I can't get Dolby Digital to work? :confused: :( :mad:

Beats me.

Maybe it needs a firmware update? But I don't see why these new units would have the old firmware on them.

You should e-mail ePvision about it. They usually respond pretty quickly.

I just got mine on Friday of last week. I have switched between PCM and Dolby with no problems. But, then again, I only did it for a moment. I left it on Dobly.

I recall seeing the software version number. I think it was version 1.1.

I have had no problems with the unit whatsoever, although I do hate the fact that I cannot add channels that did not come up during channel scan. I have some that just will not come in unless the antenna is moved, and then I lose others. This is a real pain.

Well, by looking around the epboard site, it looks like they are more into the oem market, which could be a good thing. I think that it might be easier to get into contact with the actual engineers with a company like this, whereas a company like LG or Samsung, you gotta go through stupid sales reps. Since photawn got an email response in one day, hopefully I do to. I emailed the design link instead of the sales link.

As far as the optical out goes, there is defnitely a red light shining out of the port, but just no sound. That tells me that the port itself is working, but that it isn't sending out anything useful.

Oryan_Dunn,
I am using the optical port on the PHD 101 and works fine. Make sure it is completely inserted ( I had a time getting it aligned with my cable). I am not at home but make sure the switches are set correctly (ie...output video type). Oh, goto to the menu settings for Audio out and make sure it is set correctly....

I received my unit MOnday and was somewhat disappointed i the build quality and documentation(photocopies). The QAM is a bit quirky and concur with the other posts. I guess for the price what can you expect. I would be very surprised if that offered any firmware updates

I have mine connected to a Samsung 32 inch CRT HD display.

Hometurf, Oryan's problem was later fixed with a firmware update.

I just got mine yesterday. Everything was working fine. But then suddenly two hours later my remote control stopped working. I did tried new batteries, turn off/on the unit couple times... didn't help. Could this be the remote control? or the unit itself?

Try unplugging the unit for a minute and power it back up again.
PS; welcome to the forums, neighbor.........

Wonder how long (and how many older units they will have to get rid of) before the 2nd generation models are available? :confused:

I just got mine yesterday. Everything was working fine. But then suddenly two hours later my remote control stopped working. I did tried new batteries, turn off/on the unit couple times... didn't help. Could this be the remote control? or the unit itself?

Well, if you have a video camera, you can point the remote at it and press a few buttons while looking through the view finder. If you see a bright white light shine from it, then it's working. But some video cameras actually filter out infrared light now, so that test may or may not work for you.



Wonder how long (and how many older units they will have to get rid of) before the 2nd generation models are available?


I don't know, all they said was late summer. But I couldn't wait anymore. I just ordered a Humax HFA-100 from J&R. And of course, now that I've done that, the new PrimeDTV tuner will come out in a couple of weeks, and it will be the most amazing tuner anyone has ever seen...

I purchased this unit and notice all the problems mentioned in this forum. At first I thought I could live with it but reality struck....this unit is not practical to use even at this price.

Maybe they will listen to the suggestions expressed hear, then just maybe, it will be a product worth purchasing.

So back it goes.....

Just be sure you write/type all of the issues. Even if it didn't apply to you, mention the 4x3 issue where this can't be used on a conventional TV because of the lack of aspect control (no crop). Also mention the lack of a channel up/down on the front panel.

It does have promise if they would only get their act together.

so overall experience seems to stay away from this product?

any recommendations other than 4200a receiver? that is readily available on the market..

Well, I ended up ordering a Humax HFA-100, and here's why...

I really like the on screen guide on the Humax.

Hardware and software wise, the PrimeDTV unit just seems a little too cheesy for me.

I really liked the way the Samsung SIRT-451 box looked, but it's incredibly SLOW at changing channels, and that drives me nuts...

The Probrand HD3150 seemed alright. But almost everyone who has owned the Humax unit as well as the Probrand unit almost always say they like the Humax better.

Humax is 8VSB only, correct??

Well, I ended up ordering a Humax HFA-100, and here's why...

I really like the on screen guide on the Humax.

Hardware and software wise, the PrimeDTV unit just seems a little too cheesy for me.

I really liked the way the Samsung SIRT-451 box looked, but it's incredibly SLOW at changing channels, and that drives me nuts...

The Probrand HD3150 seemed alright. But almost everyone who has owned the Humax unit as well as the Probrand unit almost always say they like the Humax better.

i guess recommendations that would have atsc/qam with channel memory settings...

I've been reading every post that I can get my browser to in the past few days regarding tuner boxes and am pretty much setteled on this PHD-101.. until I read that 4x3 TVs are not supported, and that they will have a new model in the summer.

Well, its summer and I have a 4x3 tv... I might still be willing to order one even if the new one is around the corner, but just curious about this statement on their web site:


-Video Output format selectable for 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratio
-Letterbox, and Full output modes for viewing 16:9 programs on 4:3 TV and Monitors from SD signal

So which is it? 4x3 or no? Maybe it is a new firmware addition for the shipping models?

For what it's worth, I like mine. The picture is great. It seems reliable. I have had no issues. None of these are perfect.

EGPoulin, PM me. I have a PHD-101 available since I have gone to digital HD cable service.

I'll check the letterbox of 16:9 on a 4:3. I still have my "ancient" RCA 27" s-video/composite only, I'll test the DVI out to my 19" 4:3 computer monitor as well to see if it might just be a interface thing.

So which is it? 4x3 or no? You will be watching a 'crunched' image on a 4x3 monitor.

You will be watching a 'crunched' image on a 4x3 monitor.
Depends upon your TV, My Sony 40inch XBR will properly display and 720 or 1080i inthe correct aspect ratio. The space above and below the picture is not used (scanned). Picture is not "crunched".

Hi Guys,

I am new to this forum. Received my PHD-101 on Friday and noticed several issue. Main one is the sound. There is no sound in either DVI or component video connections. I know some of you also had the same issues. How did you fix it?

Also remote is pathetic. It works when it wants to work. It totally stopped working yesterday. Luckily my Samsung TV remote is working with receiver!!. Atleast most of the functions.

My firmware version says 1.0.1. I wrote them an email describing all issues including the above 2 :mad: Did not hear from them yet.

I appreciate any response.

Thanks
Ruda

My Sony 40inch XBR will properly display and 720 or 1080i inthe correct aspect ratio. Is this a 4x3 or 16x9 monitor? If it is a 16x9, yes it would display properly. I wrote them an email describing all issues including the above 2 Did not hear from them yet. No surprise. Tech support in non-existant via e-mail. Better off calling.

Just got one of these yesterday. Im near Philly with basic Comcast cable, ran the STD channel scan, found over 300 channels which only a few of them come in. Mostly the local stuff is in HD like 3,6,10, FOX, and ESPN which is cool. Definately not a user friendly box and menus. I wonder if I'd be able to get the same channels with an OTA Antenna? Not sure if Id use this box other than for watching the sports broadcasts in HD cuz its such a pain in the arse to use.

You would probably get your locals depend on how close you were to the antennas with OTA> You would not get ESPN.

Is this a 4x3 or 16x9 monitor? If it is a 16x9, yes it would display properly. No surprise. Tech support in non-existant via e-mail. Better off calling.
The sony is a tube 4:3 monitor. It correctly displays a 720 or 1080 image. If you feed it a 4:3 picture that has been upconverted to 720 or 1080 it will piller box them as will any HD l6:9 set. I therefor play 4:3 DVD's at 480P (to fill the screen without distortion) via component inputs and all others at 1080i via HDMI. Both outputs are active on my Pan. S77 dvd player. The sounds are decoded by a Pan SA XR57 that just relaced my older Denon 3300. Great setup...the XR 57 auto decodes DVD audio so you get rid of 6 audio cables and the fiber optic cable. My TWC uses another digital input on the amp and feeds the amp while the video go straight into the TV. Its like having two tv's in one...a 40 inch SD monitor and a 38 HD monitor

I sent this back. Its just not user friendly to use and the remote is a piece of junk and thats all U have to use, plus I didnt get any ESPN high defs and thats important to me. I wound up getting a comcast box and Im very happy with it.

I didnt get any ESPN high defs and thats important to me. Those are 'pay' encripted channels. What, you expected those to be in the clear?? :rolleyes: Universal remotes solve the other problem.

The unit needs tweaking, mostly in the firmware.

And how often do the update the firmware on this unit? How is the firmware updated?

Once per model. :mad:

Wait (as I am doing) for the next model (whenever that is suppose to show).

Once per model. :mad:

Wait (as I am doing) for the next model (whenever that is suppose to show).

Sure now you tell me after I buy one on Ebay for $133!!!!

Well I guess I can use it until a new model comes out and then put this on back on Ebay! ;-)

If anyone's still looking at this thread,
I just got my PHD-101 and hooked it up to my Mits 42" CRT RPTV with the box set to 480p to be safe through setup. I got the channel scan to see all the channels, but it gives no picture at all. I saw menu's just fine, but I can't get it to list anything under 68.1 and the guide shows no channels either.

Any suggestions??

What output are you using? Try another output for starters.

Is there anyone here from Northern NJ who might know how Comcast maps it channels? I just got a PHD 101 but the scan didn't find any unencrypted channels. TV channel 242 and those immediately above are the Hi-Def NYC channels which should be available to basic subscribers according to Comcast. If anyone can tell me where those basic NYC channels are mapped from it might help. Second problem is that I don't have any sound when using DVI (yes audio cables are connected <s>)
Any thoughts. Disappointing, I may have to return this unit.

Ray

Is there anyone here from Northern NJ who might know how Comcast maps it channels? I just got a PHD 101 but the scan didn't find any unencrypted channels. TV channel 242 and those immediately above are the Hi-Def NYC channels which should be available to basic subscribers according to Comcast. If anyone can tell me where those basic NYC channels are mapped from it might help. Second problem is that I don't have any sound when using DVI (yes audio cables are connected <s>)
Any thoughts. Disappointing, I may have to return this unit.

Ray


Hi Ray,

I'm not from your area, but I do have comcast and have just finished reading all the comments in this thread.

First, be sure you are in the right input mode. There are 2; one for OTA signals and one for receiving the HD OTA channels that have been captured by comcast and rebroadcast on the cable. The OTA HD signals that you capture yourself using an antenna are decoded with the ATSC setting and the HD cannels on the comcast cable are decoded with the QAM setting. Be sure you have it set for QAM and do at least 2 scans for channels. Some here have reported that they didn't find them all the first time.

You should end up with something like 300 or so channels (including all sub channels) that you are going to have to go through one at a time to find the clear QAM channels (the local HD channels). Once you find all the good channels, you can go through and deselect all the others. It is time consuming and a real pain, but you will only have to do it once unless you want to try to use both the QAM and the ATSC tuners. You'll have to scan for a new list every time you change.

I just checked the ePVision web site and no mention of the updated PHD-101 or 102 or whatever it's going to be called.

One thing that did intrigue me was the PHTV-320 LCD TV with the ATSC/QAM tuner built in. With the specs and the picture already up, I wonder how long it will be before it is really available and can we trust a company with no TV experience to make a reliable unit.

Kit Kimes
Oswego, IL USA

I just checked the ePVision web site and no mention of the updated PHD-101 or 102 or whatever it's going to be called.

One thing that did intrigue me was the PHTV-320 LCD TV with the ATSC/QAM tuner built in. With the specs and the picture already up, I wonder how long it will be before it is really available and can we trust a company with no TV experience to make a reliable unit. That TV has been there for around four months now. Still no price.

Hi Ray,

I'm not from your area, but I do have comcast and have just finished reading all the comments in this thread.

First, be sure you are in the right input mode. There are 2; one for OTA signals and one for receiving the HD OTA channels that have been captured by comcast and rebroadcast on the cable. The OTA HD signals that you capture yourself using an antenna are decoded with the ATSC setting and the HD cannels on the comcast cable are decoded with the QAM setting. Be sure you have it set for QAM and do at least 2 scans for channels. Some here have reported that they didn't find them all the first time.

You should end up with something like 300 or so channels (including all sub channels) that you are going to have to go through one at a time to find the clear QAM channels (the local HD channels). Once you find all the good channels, you can go through and deselect all the others. It is time consuming and a real pain, but you will only have to do it once unless you want to try to use both the QAM and the ATSC tuners. You'll have to scan for a new list every time you change.

I just checked the ePVision web site and no mention of the updated PHD-101 or 102 or whatever it's going to be called.

One thing that did intrigue me was the PHTV-320 LCD TV with the ATSC/QAM tuner built in. With the specs and the picture already up, I wonder how long it will be before it is really available and can we trust a company with no TV experience to make a reliable unit.

Kit Kimes
Oswego, IL USA

I again called Comcast and was told this time that ALL digital channels are encrypted. Apparently, even though the local HD stations are included in the basic subscription according to their web site, you have to rent a box to see them. It makes me wonder what good TV's with QAM but without a cable card would be. Thanks for your response. I did get about 300+ channels but they were all encrypted.

Ray

Comcast figures all of you in NJ have lots of $$ and should pay for something that is available free with an antenna. Apparently the FCC doesn't make the distinction between analog and digital regarding the availibility of local OTA stations.

Can't wait untill Feb. 2009

I just spoke to ePVision (same guy I spoke to last spring) and he had information about the next model. For reference, here is my list of observations of the current model; Pluses;
1. Price.
2. Best sensistivity (so far of any tuner).
3. 8VSB & QAM tuners.
4. Multiple outputs including DVI & VGA.

Minuses;
1. No channel up/down on front panel.
2. No 'stand-by' button on front panel.
3. You can't add channels that aren't in the original scan (major issue with most tuners).
4. NOT SUITABLE FOR 4x3 DISPLAYS! Aspect control doesn't work on HD channels.
5. NO channel display on front panel.
6. On screen menu is very hard to read on a smaller screen.
7. No separate memories for OTA & cable.
8. No on-screen display of volume.
9. Two color LED on front panel doesn't tell you if the set booted properly or if it is 'on' or in 'standby'. It is red for booting and orange any other time.
10. Power consumption is almost as much in 'stand-by' as it is in the 'on' state (.13A vs .19A). Changes:
Should be available by years end,
Will have front panel channel up/down buttons,
Channel display on the front panel,
NTSC tuner (both cable & OTA),
Next generation intergraded ATI chip (all in one tuner decoder),
Should be able to add a channel that wasn't in the scan by a direct input (eg: 28.1),
NO composite or S-video out!
NO separate memories for OTA and cable. You get either one or the other! :mad:

Unknowns:
If stretch mode was added for a 4x3 HD channel to display on a 4x3 monitor,
Price.

Also, there is a 3rd generation in the works that will have a EPG (possibly TV Guide On Screen). Unknown much more about that one. I suggested dual memories and he suggested dual tuners and dual inputs.
Good luck on that...........

BTW, that 32" LCD set on their web site is toast. They can't import it at the price point they need to make a profit because of LCD price drops. I suggested pulling that model off their site and he agreed (as he has with just about everything else I said).

Interesting reading on this tuner. Too bad can't get it locally to try and be easily returned. Companies should let avsforum members test drive their units for less cash or free and then listen to members comments

The new model PHD-200 is now listed on their site.

Too bad can't get it locally to try and be easily returned. Buy it through them (only place it is sold AFAIK) and if you don't like it return it. You just pay shipping (like most other products).The new model PHD-200 is now listed on their site. http://epvision.com/
$30 less than the Samsung. There is no composite or S video out, so it won't work on analog TVs'. Also, there appears to be the ability to view signal strength on more than on channel at a time. Looking through the manual, there is only one mention of the QAM receiving ability. :confused:
Too bad it's still that chinsey silver. :mad:

I see that epvision website claims that the PHD-200 supports unencrypted QAM.
They also claim it uses ATI Xilleon, which would be 5th Gen if it's the version with the embedded ATSC Decoder...

But I challenge anyone to make sense out of the one and only one mention of QAM in the PHD-200 manual.
It appears that they might have intentionally edited the old manual to delete QAM and simply missed one occurence....
Anyone want to try QAM and let us know????

Contrast this to the PHD-101 manual where unencrypted QAM operation is clearly claimed and is mentioned six times:
http://www.epvision.com/Documents/ManualA5_07.pdf
But again, they can't quite figure out the difference between those very few cable systems that carry 8VSB signals and the majority that carry QAM...

I hope this new model actually maps the channel numbers for open QAM.

Has anyone purchased it yet or am I going to have to be the beta tester on this one?

or am I going to have to be the beta tester on this one? Your turn, I tested it last time. :D
As far as the poorly written manual, nothing unusual for small Asian no name companies. Actually, many of the big name ones aren't much better. :(

I'll give 'er a shot. Just ordered. I had the old one let's see what this baby does.

Just don't tell A/Vspec your getting one. ;)

To late, got that auto email message thing going on in the good'ol inbox;)

Cool beans!!! So do you have the PHD-101 also by chance to do a side-by-side or is this your first trip down the open QMA road?

I just found the PHD-200 and this site today!
How lucky can I get?
Now if only the trial run turns up good results i will make an order also!
Looking forward to sharing info here

Wonder why they did not add a input for both cable and OTA HD feeds??? I have both feeds going to all my other HD boxes.

Cost and apparently Asians think we either have an antenna or cable, not both. :(

Well they shipped it the same day I ordered and UPS says I should have it Fri.

Well they shipped it the same day I ordered and UPS says I should have it Fri.
So do you have the PHD-101 also by chance to do a side-by-side or is this your first trip down the open QAM road?

So do you have the PHD-101 also by chance to do a side-by-side or is this your first trip down the open QAM road?
Yup, have had the 101 for about a year. The interface & features are a little rough but at a basic level it works fine - feeding my Panny 900. The only thing that doesn't work as advertised is DD 5.1 output. I'm sending that to a Pio vsx-1015. When I coose DD on the setup menu of the 101 the pio screen starts flashing and there is nor sound. If I change it to PCM, everything is fine. Of course, I get stereo only at that point. I saw another guy had the exact same problem earlier in this forum.

probably a firmware thing. Mine gives me 5.1 on channels that have it but no sound on some channels that do not have it???? I even have it hooked up both digital and analog just to see if that would help but alas....

Well I am looking foward to your reports on this new piece.... and I hope it does not end up being a piece.... ;)

Ok, just got the PHD202 hooked up and here are some of my notes:

LCD panel is an improvement over nothing on the previous one
Channel #'s show up in it as well as status, such as OFF, SCANNING, BOOTING, etc,.Power light is now red for STANDBY & green for ON - much better than before.
Remote is about the same. a little cleaner. Instead of the one Channel List button you can define three of your own Favorite lists
There is no S-Video or composite video output like the old one
The UI is easier and transparent over what you are watching
The signal strength now shows up when you hit the Info/Guide button when you are watching a channel. Also shows audio format (stereo) and resolution(720p, etc)
You still can only have either OTA or QAM/NTSC because of one RF input. It's nice to have the cable scan pick up all the analog channels too. The UI does a good job of breaking out and letting you manage both the analog and digital channels. Going back to the Favorites, you could set up Fav1 as all SD analog channels and FAV2 as all SD digital and FAV3 as all HD digital. There is manual channel entry instead of just scanning It's easier to include and exclude channels in the FAVs (old List) with the new UI QAM, ATSC & NTSC scans all worked fineQAM SD channels seemed clearer but I haven't had enough time to watch HD

I didn't get to check if the DD5.1 worked yet as no channels were using it when tested. I will update as I know more. So far it seems much improved over the old model and a few bucks cheaper too.

Have you tried to see if there are two independent memories for OTA and cable (using a A/B switch)?

Can you remap QAM channel numbers?

Can you remap QAM channel numbers?

Yea, do we still have to live with 111.14 for Discovery (or what ever it is) or can you map channel 75.13 to channel 6 (or what ever it is)

The only device I ever heard of being able to remove mapping are HD tuner cards. The MyHD 120 being one of them. I don't know if external USB tuners allow remapping.

looking at this phd200 for thanksgiving bargain 37" hd lcd ($488) have an RCA Scenium with build in Qam and digital box from comcast. so i found by accident that tuner of RCA sees hd channels. the lcd doesn't have Qam and in guest room do don't want to pay for another digital box. This sounds like ideal for at least some hd content. is there anywhere that has list of northern nj comcast digital clear channels with numbers, seems they are in the 110-114 range. but thought i'd same labor if someone has already done it.

Have you tried to see if there are two independent memories for OTA and cable (using a A/B switch)?
I see no way to merge the OTA and cable channel scan listings. I also don't think you can remap the channel numbers although this isn't a big deal to me. With the 3 seperate FAV listings you can easily included/exclude a limited number of channels so you don't have to go through the whole list to find the one you want. You can also attach a channel name to the number to make it easier to select a channel.
Also, I know that the old 101 didn't work correctly with 4:3 TV's. Although I don't have a 4:3 handy to test with, it seems that the new aspect ratio functionality will fix this. See the manual for details.

Three separate favorites listings? That intrigues me because I receive OTA stations from three different cities, using a rotator to move between them. It would be handy to flip through only the stations for whatever city I'm pointed towards at the moment.

Probably not important enough for me to shell out for yet another tuner, though, unless it's also more sensitive than the new Samsung unit that I'm using now.

You can also attach a channel name to the number to make it easier to select a channel.

That sounds like a good enough feature to me. I am going to order one.

I see no way to merge the OTA and cable channel scan listings. You might of misunderstood. I know they can't be merged, but can there be two separate lists?? IOWs' , with a A/B switch and a menu change, can you have both?I know that the old 101 didn't work correctly with 4:3 TV's. It's a non issue now. The unit has no SD outputs, so it doesn't matter. But, now it does have a SD tuner. :confused:
Boy, these people keep missing the boat

Out of curiosity, I downloaded the manual for this unit. The "Favorites" section contains the following:

Using FAV1 FAV2 FAV3 button
You can use FAV1 FAV2 or FAV3 button to add or remove the channels also.
1. Press CH+/CH- buttons to select the channel you would like to register.
2. Press FAV1 FAV2 or FAV3 button on the remote control to register it as a favorite channel, select “Add” to register it.
3. In the favorite channel, you can press FAV1 FAV2 or FAV3 button to remove it.
4. After you finish favorite channel registration, by each pressing of FAV1 FAV2 or FAV3 button, you can change the channels between them.

When you press one of the FAV buttons, how does the unit know whether you want to add/remove a channel from a favorites list, or simply go to the next channel in the list? Does a little menu pop up the first time you press a FAV button (which seems to be what #2 is describing), and then you press it again to advance to the next favorite channel?

When you press one of the FAV buttons, how does the unit know whether you want to add/remove a channel from a favorites list, or simply go to the next channel in the list? Does a little menu pop up the first time you press a FAV button (which seems to be what #2 is describing), and then you press it again to advance to the next favorite channel?
When you press FAVx a popup menu comes up with the channels you have assigned to it from the Setup menu. You can also add/remove channels from the popup. Channel advance can be done through the FAV popup or via the Channel Up button.

Channel advance can be done through the FAV popup or via the Channel Up button.

With the FAV popup, is there a separate menu item that advances to the next channel in that FAV list, or do you simply choose the desired channel from the popup? The Channel Up button cycles through all the channels, right?

My Samsung DTB-H260F has only one set of favorites, but you can advance through them simply by pressing the FAV.CH. button. That button doesn't do anything else. To add and delete channels from the favorites list, you have to go to the master channel list. Selecting a channel there gives you a popup that allows you to add it to the favorites list, etc.

With the FAV popup, is there a separate menu item that advances to the next channel in that FAV list, or do you simply choose the desired channel from the popup? The Channel Up button cycles through all the channels, right?

In the FAV popup you see a list of all channels #'s & names that are part of that list. You can use the up/down arrow to select a channel from the list and that channel will be displayed. The list remains on the screen a few seconds so you can pick another channel. To the right of each channel entry in the list is a delete button. From here you can remove channels from the list instead of going back to the master Channel list in the setup menu. If you hit the FAVx key while you were on a channel that was not in the list you have the ability to add it to the list from the popup. A rough corollary is how Favorites works in Internet Explorer. You can go to Favorites - Organize to maintain the whole hierarchy or you can call up a Favorite menu and do some in-context editing right there.
One thing I'm still unsure of is DD 5.1 support. I see all the docs reference DD (w/o a 5.1 suffix). When I go to a show which I believe is transmitting 5.1 and I hit the Info button, it says the show is transmitting in 5.1 but the auto-sense on my A/V receiver indicates it is only receiving a stereo signal over the optical audio connection. I'd be interested if anyone else has this receiver and gets DD 5.1 to work.
The Channel Up button cycles through all the channels you have enabled in the master Channel list - which is maintained in the Setup menu and different from the 3 FAV lists.

But, now it does have a SD tuner. :confused:
Boy, these people keep missing the boat

I think it's a great idea to have an analog tuner and an HD tuner. My TV is the commercial panny plasma with no tuners. How else would I get both SD and HD content without having two tuner boxes?

On another note, I also ordered one so I'll try to post some comments too.

I think we all agree that having an SD tuner is nice. What he was saying is now we've got an SD tuner, but are now missing the very useful SD output. They can't seem to get it right.

Those that want to jump on this should do so soon as the $10 off coupon is set to expire after tomorrow.

I placed my order today and will post my results in the not so distant future....

I think it's a great idea to have an analog tuner and an HD tuner. What he was saying is now we've got an SD tuner, but are now missing the very useful SD output. They can't seem to get it right. The first model had SD out and no SD tuner. The 2nd model has a SD tuner, but no SD out. :confused:
Two years from now SD won't matter (OTA in the US). My point was, it should of been the other way around.

But NTSC is still relavant for those with cable.

But NTSC is still relavant for those with cable.
Agreed. I happen to live in an area where all cable is broadcast in digital so when I do a QAM scan I get both the analog and digital versions of cable channels 1-72 - in addition to all the digital-only channels above 72. The only benefit to me is that I already have the analog numbers memorized so I can punch in 62 and go to Fox News. Otherwise I'd have to get out my cheat sheet and see that FN is on digital channel 84.13.
Tha being said, I have no idea why they don't put two RF jacks in the back and merge the OTA and cable channels into one interface. The advantage here is that I have one Sinclair channel that I can get OTA but not via QAM. It can't be that much more money.

Agreed. I happen to live in an area where all cable is broadcast in digital so when I do a QAM scan I get both the analog and digital versions of cable channels 1-72 - in addition to all the digital-only channels above 72. The only benefit to me is that I already have the analog numbers memorized so I can punch in 62 and go to Fox News. Otherwise I'd have to get out my cheat sheet and see that FN is on digital channel 84.13.
Tha being said, I have no idea why they don't put two RF jacks in the back and merge the OTA and cable channels into one interface. The advantage here is that I have one Sinclair channel that I can get OTA but not via QAM. It can't be that much more money.

I agree. I hate having to use a seperate old RCA DTC-210 for my OTA HD and the PHD for my cable HD.. though I am glad I can get both, I just wish it was in one box. Maybe some day........

I have no idea why they don't put two RF jacks in the back and merge the OTA and cable channels into one interface See my eariler comment.
But NTSC is still relavant for those with cable. Until the MSO drops analog altogether.
BTW, that does apply to me.

They do plan on a third version with some type of OnScreen guide and some other additions.

I just received my unit. It looks like they hit most of the points of my original suggestion list. The unit does have an SD output in the form of 480i over component. While not compatible with all analog TVs, it will connect to most recent analog sets that have component input. It sure would have been nice to have two inputs though. Since the box only costs $160, its still a good deal. So far, it looks like they did a good job for a second attempt at a tuner. The user interface looks much better, on par with Samsung and LG units. So far I've only tested with ATSC; next up I'll test ClearQAM. More thoughts and comparison to the 101 unit will be posted later.

The unit does have an SD output in the form of 480i over component. While not compatible with all analog TVs Actually, you can connect the 'Y' channel (green) to a composite input and watch a B&W picture. When I said a SD output, I was referring to composite and/or S-video out.

I just hooked mine up today. I am feeding it with cable. I was impressed with the HD quality, but the digital channels were a little slow to show up. The FAV feature is nice so I don't have to keep track of the channel numbers for the HD channels.

I'm coming from a motorola 6200 box so I'm used to all the goodies (e.g., flip and browse, etc.). But this is a good low cost, stripped down alternative.

I've been playing with the PHD-200 for a few days now and I'm impressed with the improvements made over the PHD-101, both in terms of features and stability. One of the things I like best (though it takes a bit of thumb dexterity) is the ability to change the channels while editing the Master List. After a scan, I can call up the Master List and surf the channels using the channel + and - keys in the background while paging through the Master List with the up and down navigation keys. When I find a channel I don't want to save, I can hit the OK button to deselect. With the PHD-101, I found myself going through all the channels, writing down the channel numbers I wanted to omit, then going back and editing them out.

Most of all, I'm impressed with the manufacturer's willingness to listen to its customers and make genuine attempts to make the requested changes. I also like being able to easily update the firmware (which I've already done once to resolve an audio bug). In fact, the manufacturer sent me the firmware update on a USB thumbdrive without me even asking for it!

I wish there was some way to control the volume via the PHD-200's remote control; using one controller to change channels and one to adjust the volume can sometimes be a bit annoying. A minor detail, but still...

In summary, I consider this to be a very viable option for someone looking for an ATSC/NTSC settop box, especially in light of its very reasonable price.

Hey guys I was thinking of buying this for my mother she has a Sanyo TV w/ component input(analog). Reason for this is bunny ears on sd channels just aren't sharp like DTV, would this work pretty good for this application?

I also like being able to easily update the firmware (which I've already done once to resolve an audio bug). In fact, the manufacturer sent me the firmware update on a USB thumbdrive without me even asking for it!

Can I ask what your audio bug was? I heard some pretty bad echoing on an SD cable channel today...are we talking about the same thing?

I guess the audio bug was that analog channels were playing the SAP channel instead of what the user selected.

How do you check what firmware it loaded? Can they email out the firmware files or can they be downloaded?

the manufacturer sent me the firmware update on a USB thumbdrive without me even asking for it! For the 200 or the 101? What is the current F/W version? Any screen that confirms this??
I believe you are the first to report a F/W upgrade.

We received the PHD-200 a couple of days ago. Our setup is a Sony WEGA KLV-26HG2 LCD with 1,280 x 768 resolution and no Dolby input.

Our inputs up till now are Directv Tivo DVR, Cox free 15 year old cable fed with analog only equipment, DVD player and a sad VCR. The DVR works ok with great PQ. The free Cox cable will be updated with digital equipment this fall and then we will have to pay for any service. We think that OTA DTV would be fine for our local channels and we will keep Directv as long as we travel six months of the year in our motorhome.

I hooked up the tuner as suggested "Recommended settings to start with: set to Y-Pb-Pr (Component) output from “DTV SELECT” switch and 1080i as display resolution from “RESOLUTION” switch. Next did the initial setup as instructed finishing with the scanning for any signals. Found 19 analog and 15 digital, using the antenna connected. I didn't try the cable input yet. The signal strenghts on digital were 5 or 6 bars. The results from the scanning were great and amazed me because I hadn't yet received the ordered SquareShooter. To do my first setup attempt, I connected a 10' extension to the RG6 that was to go to the Antenna and routed it up a floor lamp with the F connector just above the pole. I then screwed on a coupling and next stuck a wire coat hanger into the coupling so that the hanger was upside down and aimed at about 123°. AntennaWeb shows us to be 30 miles SW of the station feeds in Phoenix. This should say something about the tuner sensitivity, now wonder if the amplified SquareShooter might overload the tuner.

PQ was mostly great. An exception was Fox, so I changed the resolution to 720p and Fox looks better with other channels still looking good to me, would welcome any advice as to resolution choices.

I would prefer adjustable volume control instead of a fixed output level and the need to use a second remote.

The guide gives info for the channel that you're watching and lets you see what the next show will be. Full channel guide would be much better.

The Favs lists work very well, easy to setup and switch channels. You can put whatever channels you want in any of the lists.

To change channels, not using the Favs lists, you can use the P+ & P- buttons or key in the channel number. As it seems I only care about the DTV channels, I may delete all the analogs and use P+ & P- to move up and down the digitals, choices choices.

If you press the guide button twice, you will see info for that channel including strength. I you change channels while the info screen is on, you see all the info that pertains to the new channel that you just changed to. This only works when using the P+ & P- buttons to change channels.

The system info shows ATI theater and version 32.23.01

The remote is ok but would rather be able to control some of it's functions from either the Directv remote or maybe a universal type. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding a different remote and what about codes?

Tim

With a learning remote, you could just teach it the buttons.

My unit arrived today. I have the sound issue reported earlier in the thread. Also my unit will not pick up any digital channels on the open QAM but does pickup HD channels on OTA antenna connection. They are sending me the firmware fix for the sound but I have a feeling I will be getting a new unit due to the no digital channels on the cable.

With a learning remote, you could just teach it the buttons.

Does anyone know the universal remote code for the PHD-200?

VideoBruce -- The firmware upgrade I received was to fix the SAP issue. I did not see what version the original firmware was, but the upgrade I received was "PHD-200 Firmware 011907".

I got the same prob with SAP issue. Also, the vol on the remote is useless. Other than that, the picture looks great on my Panasonic Tao34. Somehow the tuner is not picking up the station info from my Comcast signal. It took me about 2 hr to enter all the station list. Be very careful, if you scan for channel, you WILL loose all your channel info you stored.

It is confirm that vol +/- on remote is not working. All we have is the fix vol level from the box. Also, if you have a tube, the picture on your tubehas about 3~5% displayed outside of the viewable area.

Over all, it is a good value for a digital tuner box. The tech support is pretty good too.

I guess the audio bug was that analog channels were playing the SAP channel instead of what the user selected.

I think it is also in digital channel too. The reason digital channel has sound is because it has only on audio channel.

Also my unit will not pick up any digital channels on the open QAM but does pickup HD channels on OTA antenna connection.
I had the reverse problem - couldn't pick up OTA digital. I rebooted and rescanned and everything was fine. It may have been due to me plugging, unplugging and rescanning OTA & cable a number of times while the box was on the whole time.

I had the reverse problem - couldn't pick up OTA digital. I rebooted and rescanned and everything was fine. It may have been due to me plugging, unplugging and rescanning OTA & cable a number of times while the box was on the whole time.


I think I will give that a try... so just unplug, plug back in and rescan and it picks up the channels?

Also, which cable mode is everyone using? I have Comcast.

Also, which cable mode is everyone using? I have Comcast.

Std cable mode for Comcast here in Chicago area. Std does not mean the bad one you don't want to get.

I think I will give that a try... so just unplug, plug back in and rescan and it picks up the channels?
shut unit off, plug in antenna, turn unit on, do antenna rescan

OTA works fine everytime. Its just Comcast digital channels I can not scan in???

OTA works fine everytime. Its just Comcast digital channels I can not scan in???

I also am not able to scan in QAM channels that the 101 model gets.

It took me about 2 hr to enter all the station list. Be very careful, if you scan for channel, you WILL loose all your channel info you stored.


How did you enter in the station list?

Sending my unit back for another. It looks like mine has a defective QAM tuner as I can not pick up the digital cable stations. Good thing I still have the PHD-101.

So I just ordered this after learning that the Samsung DTB doesnt have an NTSC tuner (seriously, who doesnt have an NTSC tuner, they are even in VCRs).

I have Comcast, so this device should pick up all the basic cable, and the unscrambled QAM cable stations too? Could somone with Comcast verify this please.

Sending my unit back for another. It looks like mine has a defective QAM tuner as I can not pick up the digital cable stations. Good thing I still have the PHD-101.

Was your problem just a problem with the box, or is this an emblimatic problem?

Good question.... I hope I just had a lemon.

No matter what I tried I could not pickup any of the Comcast digital channels. I was able to pickup all the analog channels from Comcast (which I would never use) but no digital channels.

As soon as I get my replacement unit I will let you know... but zman8 let me know how yours works with Comcast when it arrives. I did some internet searching and I think this is the only forum that even talks about this piece of equipment.

Good question.... I hope I just had a lemon.

No matter what I tried I could not pickup any of the Comcast digital channels. I was able to pickup all the analog channels from Comcast (which I would never use) but no digital channels.

As soon as I get my replacement unit I will let you know... but zman8 let me know how yours works with Comcast when it arrives. I did some internet searching and I think this is the only forum that even talks about this piece of equipment.

Well it shipped today, and I am excited to be able to get the basic channels aswell (I actually enjoy watching MTV and SciFi).

I will let you know how it works out (my Samsung currently gets some of the channels, but it is really crazy how many blocked channels showed up in its search hopefully this unit will be better).

I have Comcast, so this device should pick up all the basic cable, and the unscrambled QAM cable stations too? Could somone with Comcast verify this please.

I have comcast in the SF Bay Area and I get basic + digital with the PHD-200. I'm using the STD setting. Also ask for the firmware update. They'll e-mail or mail it to you within a few days. After you update, skip the start-up scan and run a scan using Cable (STD) from the menus. It won't scan correctly from start-up so save yourself 15 minutes by doing it this way.

After you update, skip the start-up scan and run a scan using Cable (STD) from the menus. It won't scan correctly from start-up so save yourself 15 minutes by doing it this way.

I received the update via a memory stick and did exactly like you mention but mine still would not pickup any digital channels.

Also even after the firmware update I still had strange sound on the "Stereo" audio setting and would have to change to "Mono" in order to not pickup the SAP audio. This of course was for the analog stations since mine would not pickup the digital stations to see if the sound was ok.

I received the update via a memory stick and did exactly like you mention but mine still would not pickup any digital channels.

I emailed them today to verify whether they really had QAM in the PHD-200 or not; they replied:

"Yes, Both PHD-200 and PHD-101 support clear QAM, which is un-encrypted cable digital channels. PHD-200 can also receive regular/analog cable unscrambled channel. Thanks.
Support Team,
ePVision.com"

So it would appear you had/have a bad unit?

**Edit** This thread would indicate some other tuners may have issues with some channels on QAM:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799408
Rich

I am a newbie here (and new to the whole HDTV thing). Could some of the more seasoned users provide some guidance to the uninitiated.
My better half and I live on the US side of the Canadian border and love watching the Canadian analog TV stations. Signal is pretty weak though. And the powerful local stations tend to overload antenna amplifiers.

Q1. I hear that PHD 200 has pretty sensitive tuner ATSC tuner. How is the sensitivity with Analog reception?

Q2. Is the upscaling of 480 NTSC content to the 720 HDTV resolution acceptable?
In the Olevia 532H thread there were numerous complaints that the ATI Xilleon chip had trouble properly upscaling SD content (480i and 480p). The problem was significant ghosting when there was a moving image. It was something to do with time based smoothing.

Q3. In order to get best OTA reception I was planning on buying an LCD monitor and then complementing it with the PHD 200. Is that a good idea? Is a dedicated receiver better than the built in tuner of a sub $1000 flat panel TV?

I have been researching this for about two months and am getting nowhere.
Please add some common sense to my confusion. :(

Also ask for the firmware update. They'll e-mail or mail it to you within a few days.

Could you email it to me? If so could you PM me..thanks

Has anyone with this tuner been able to pick up Dolby Digital 5.1 broadcasts? I have the tuner audio set to Dolby but the Superbowl (and other 5.1 broadcasts) only show up on my A/V receiver as Stereo. I verified with our local CBS HD station that they passed 5.1 OTA.

I am a newbie here (and new to the whole HDTV thing). Could some of the more seasoned users provide some guidance to the uninitiated.
My better half and I live on the US side of the Canadian border and love watching the Canadian analog TV stations. Signal is pretty weak though. And the powerful local stations tend to overload antenna amplifiers.

Q1. I hear that PHD 200 has pretty sensitive tuner ATSC tuner. How is the sensitivity with Analog reception?

Q2. Is the upscaling of 480 NTSC content to the 720 HDTV resolution acceptable?
In the Olevia 532H thread there were numerous complaints that the ATI Xilleon chip had trouble properly upscaling SD content (480i and 480p). The problem was significant ghosting when there was a moving image. It was something to do with time based smoothing.

Q3. In order to get best OTA reception I was planning on buying an LCD monitor and then complementing it with the PHD 200. Is that a good idea? Is a dedicated receiver better than the built in tuner of a sub $1000 flat panel TV?

I have been researching this for about two months and am getting nowhere.
Please add some common sense to my confusion. :(

Get a new TV with tuner built in! They all have 5gen chips. They have been getting the new technology sooner than separate tuners. Since all new TVs must have tuners built in, they have volume, which means they'll get the newest chips first. (IMHO). Also, one FCC document I saw had data that proved there is no relationship to TV price vs. quality of the tuner. But there is plenty of data supporting 5th gen tuners are much better than previous incarnations.

Rich

Good news about the new consoles and firmware:

Per an email with the customer support:
Could you please send me the firmware update to the PrimeDTV PHD-200.

Please let me know what type of information you need from me, my address is:

Your unit has been shipped with the latest firmware already. No need for firmware update. Thanks.



Regards,

nevermind...

Get a new TV with tuner built in! They all have 5gen chips. They have been getting the new technology sooner than separate tuners. Since all new TVs must have tuners built in, they have volume, which means they'll get the newest chips first. (IMHO). Also, one FCC document I saw had data that proved there is no relationship to TV price vs. quality of the tuner. But there is plenty of data supporting 5th gen tuners are much better than previous incarnations.

Rich


I wish I could agree with the above recommendation, but I have a new Panasonic TH-50PX600U, purchased December 26th, that gets terrible QAM reception. It has even had the tuner replaced! I have a MythTV system I have built with two individual digital tuners installed that get all local digital channels (32). The Panasonic, on a good day, might get 10 of the most unwatched channels (PBS, etc), but never the most watched channels (ABC, CBS, FOX, etc). My word of advice is to check the board and ASK owners before you buy. Do not rely on the sales person at the store to be totally knowledgeable on the subject and give you a honest answer. There are other owners of this set with the exact same problem as me. I am most likely going to purchase this box to replace the tuner that will not work in the TV I have.

I wish I could agree with the above recommendation, but I have a new Panasonic TH-50PX600U, purchased December 26th, that gets terrible QAM reception. It has even had the tuner replaced! I have a MythTV system I have built with two individual digital tuners installed that get all local digital channels (32). The Panasonic, on a good day, might get 10 of the most unwatched channels (PBS, etc), but never the most watched channels (ABC, CBS, FOX, etc). My word of advice is to check the board and ASK owners before you buy. Do not rely on the sales person at the store to be totally knowledgeable on the subject and give you a honest answer. There are other owners of this set with the exact same problem as me. I am most likely going to purchase this box to replace the tuner that will not work in the TV I have.

He was talking OTA, not QAM(cable) and so was I. However, I agree with you in principle. And cable reception via QAM shouldn't be an issue -- that's a clear defect! Get your money back if they can't fix it(if it's not too late)! You paid for a tuner; you should have one!

I'd love it if there were comprehensive reviews of different tuners in STBs and TV receivers. Seems like reception is a dirty little secret!

I never trust salesmen. I usually research and buy on the internet for that reason. I think if I were buying a TV, however, I'd buy it at a store, test it immediately, and return it within 7 days if it had problems.

Unfortunately, as a consumer, there is little information out there on specific models, other than experiences here. I'm needing a tuner myself, and am looking at either this one or the newest Samsung. Which one is better for long distance reception? I don't know. Which one has better reliablility? I don't know. Which one has better firmware? I don't know. All I know is both use 5gen chips, and therefore should do much better than 3rd or 4th gen chips OTA. QAM? Seems like no-one has reported any problems on the Samsung, but look at the other posts on this thread for QAM.

Rich

Has anyone that has the PHD-200 or the PHD-101 live in a deep fringe area? If you do what kind of digital ota reception are you getting. Which one seems to receive the best signal?
I am thinking of ordering one of the PHD-101 because I still have a few analog tvs that the 101 will work on.

I ordered a PHD-200 yesterday. I have a Westinghouse 27" LCD (the older model with the speakers on the sides) and basic analog cable. I live in an area with a small cable company, their digital package consists of 4 HD stations. A friend of mine gets all of our local HD channels with a Radio Shack antenna and I am getting the same antenna. I live about 40 miles from the TV stations, but it is mostly flat between here and there. He is recording between 90 and 100% signal strength on his TV. I hope to get similar results.
I hope the QAM comes through the cable, also.
No info on this website for my cable company, Northland Cable.
I will report back in a few days with results

I noticed a glitch in my unit yesterday.

I have the HD digital (QAM) channels stored in my FAV1 list. I changed the channel from an HD channel to an analog channel. When I tried to increase or decrease the channel (P+/P-), the channel incremented from the HD channel instead of the analog channel. I'm going to e-mail epvision and see what they say...

My replacement unit is stuck at UPS due to the bad weather here in PA.

It was out for delivery yesterday morning and just before it was to arrive... bam.... bad weather and no delivery....

Will post my findings when the weather clears and they get it delivered to me....

OK, hooked the cable up to my PHD200 and scanned...
Found 12 analog and no digital, bummer. Rechecked and found that it only scanned as an antenna, quick fix and re-scan...

Found 58 analog and 224 digital, BINGO gonna have HD!!!

NOT, 224 digital channels of blank screen (alright, I did get all 60 DMX music channels) NO HD for me!

Now what can I do? How do I word it to the local cable company that there is no clear QAM signal.

Also, I connected a cheap antenna and found 6 digitals. A better antenna will help.

OK, hooked the cable up to my PHD200 and scanned...
Found 12 analog and no digital, bummer. Rechecked and found that it only scanned as an antenna, quick fix and re-scan...

Found 58 analog and 224 digital, BINGO gonna have HD!!!

NOT, 224 digital channels of blank screen (alright, I did get all 60 DMX music channels) NO HD for me!

Now what can I do? How do I word it to the local cable company that there is no clear QAM signal.

Also, I connected a cheap antenna and found 6 digitals. A better antenna will help.

Thanks for sharing your "early adopter" report.

You might want to check and/or post in your local reception area of this forum to see if clear QAM (unencrypted) is provided by your cableco "for locals". I'm unclear as to whether that is required by the FCC or not. You can ask the cableco if they have it with basic cable, but getting the correct response depends upon who you talk to, I'm sure. Probably they encrypt, since you get the sound channels but no picture channels. But maybe they need to change that?

Rich

I can find NO FCC regulation that requires digital channels to be unscrambled. If anyone can cite one, please do so.

I have Northland Cable in Greenwood, SC

Ok, my replacement unit arrived yesterday.... and yes, the new unit works!

I get all the channels my PHD-101 gets.

So yes, I had a defective unit that the clear QAM was not working.

New unit is cool as you can name the channels. Still a pain that you have to go to each and everyone to name it but it is a nice option. The FAV's is cool also but I use an MX900 that I can setup to go right to the HD channel that I want so the FAV's will not be used much in my system but for those without such a remote I could see the use.

As mentioned earlier in the thead, the default scan is a big waste of time as it only scans OTA antenna so if you are trying to get clear QAM from cable you are not going to get anything so as soon as you go thru the default setup, bail out of the scan and then go into setup and select cable and let it scan and it will find the digital channels after the analog scan.

There is still a strange audio problem with analog channels with the SAP but I do not use any of those so YMMV. If you want analog, I do not recommend this unit but if you must, be sure to select "MONO" for the audio mode on those channels and it should be ok. Not sure if you will get PL but atleast you will not hear the bad echo in your speakers.

Will post more as I use the PHD-200 more in the next few days.

OK, hooked the cable up to my PHD200 and scanned...
Found 12 analog and no digital, bummer. Rechecked and found that it only scanned as an antenna, quick fix and re-scan...

Found 58 analog and 224 digital, BINGO gonna have HD!!!

NOT, 224 digital channels of blank screen (alright, I did get all 60 DMX music channels) NO HD for me!

Now what can I do? How do I word it to the local cable company that there is no clear QAM signal.

Also, I connected a cheap antenna and found 6 digitals. A better antenna will help.

Next report:

Hooked up a Radio Shack U75R antenna with a 15-1170 in-line amp. I now have NBC (4.1 & 4.2) CBS (7.1 & 7.2) ABC (13.1 & 13.3) PBS (38.1 & 38.2) PBSHD (38.3) and an independant (40.1). All 3 major network are in HD.

The in-line amp is 10dB, I wonder if a stronger amp would get me FOX?

All stations are between 35 and 70 miles away!

HD Rocks!

There is still a strange audio problem with analog channels with the SAP but I do not use any of those so YMMV. If you want analog, I do not recommend this unit but if you must, be sure to select "MONO" for the audio mode on those channels and it should be ok. Not sure if you will get PL but atleast you will not hear the bad echo in your speakers.

I think that there was an update for this problem. After I received my unit, they sent me a usb drive with the updated firmware on it.

I applied that update and still had strange SAP sounds. I spoke with tech support and was informed that with analog channles that is how it is supposed to work depending on what the station was sending out.

I know it's probably already been posted but how do the aspect ratios compare to the db-2010. The 2010 with it's upgrade lets the aspect ratio per channel stay where you set it. Does either one of these units do that or do you have to change it at every channel change?
If this has already been posted please point me to them because there are a lot of posts to read in these forums....

Thanks

I know it's probably already been posted but how do the aspect ratios compare to the db-2010. The 2010 with it's upgrade lets the aspect ratio per channel stay where you set it. Does either one of these units do that or do you have to change it at every channel change?
If this has already been posted please point me to them because there are a lot of posts to read in these forums....

Thanks

WOW! did I ask the wrong thing? there have been no new posts lately to this thread

Just wondering

WOW! did I ask the wrong thing? there have been no new posts lately to this thread

Just wondering

I am pretty sure that the aspect ratio on my PHD200 switches with the channel, I haven't changed it from the default setting except to see how it looks, but when I change channels, it always seems to go back to what is broadcast.
I only use mine for OTA if that makes a difference???

Has anyone had any luck programming this remote with a Harmony Remote? I can't even get the Harmony to respond even after "learning" commands.

Still not sure what I think of this new unit. When I do a scan it skips over the ONDEM channels so I have to manually enter them in to get to them and it will not let you put them into the lineup or favorites.

Also it seems to jump around when you tune to them. The 101 did not do this as much and picks them up when it scans.

For all the regular open QAM channels it seems to work just fine.

Well, the PHD-200 is basically looking like the "best" (only???) inexpensive unit out there that does NTSC/ATSC/QAM all in one. Are there any alternatives worth considering and/or any other new models coming out soon?

Hard to believe there isn't anything relatively inexpensive out there that supports CableCard.

I'm happy with mine so far.

I think I actually prefer the PHD-101 more then the PHD-200. The favorites are fine on the PHD-200 but if you have a universal remote like the MX-900 then it is not really a big deal. I have all my favorite stations loaded on the remote. Also when watching On-Demand streams the PHD-200 does not stay "locked on" like the PHD-101 does... or I should say does better, but it can also jump off.

Both seem to pick up the same amount of channels from comcast.

As I use both a bit longer and compare I will follow up.

I know LG has some TV's that have built in open QAM tuners and they seem to work ok but do not pick up any of the ON-Demand channels that I could find.

I got one of the first units, sent the damned thing back to fix the analog sound (at my shipping expense which was a ripoff), and have had the new unit for about a month.

The problem with the analog sound was noted elsewhere in this forum. The new unit with the new firmware improved it but did not eliminate it. Some analog channels still have the alternate channel sound in the background. Some channels sound a little distorted. Sometimes the volume starts low and increases by itself. I don't know if it is my imagination, but it seems that the digital channel sound got a little worse at times, like they are forgetting to include the center channel in the two channel output (I'm not using the optical digital output, just the RCA two channel outputs).

I can't believe that they had the nerve to tell somone on this forum that that's the way it is supposed to be! What a bunch of crock. I hope they fix it soon. I just emailed them with my review (asking them to pay any return shipping charge from now on).

Also annoying, you get an audible POP when changing analog channels.

They fixed a problem in the orig unit of too much overscan or upscaling of 1080i and 480i on the DVI 1080i output under "normal" mode. Sometimes, subtitles would be cut off or the station icon would be chopped off. The new unit has fixed that, but 720p is still upscaled a bit too much for DVI 1080i output (I haven't tried any other output mode). Not even a word of thank you from them for pointing the problem out to them (it took some convincing, but the fact that they fixed it means they finally got it thru their heads).

As far as QAM, the tuner is very sensitive. I get all the free qam stations in the SF bay area (dozens; didn't count). I noticed the networks finally starting including that info stuff in the stream so suddenly, e.g., ABS appears at 7.1 instead of some arbitrary number in the 100s, FoxHD at 2.1, ABCHD at 7.1, PBSHD at 9.1, KRONHD at 4.2, CBSHD at 5.1, NBCHDat 11.1. Actually, Fox and CBS have been doing this for a long time, but all of a sudden, ABC, KRON, NBC, and PBS started doing it all at once. Or maybe it is a comcast thing. The SD 480i versions of these are still at arbitrary high numbers.

Much more sensitive than the flakey LG 3410A tuner for QAM (oldest generation). A bit better than my El Gato EyeTV 500 (medium generation). PHD-200 shows better signal strength and locks in more quickly and robustly than the EyeTV.

Didn't bother with OTA checking. Usually that is less problematic than QAM. I only did the manually started scan after setup, so I second what others said: If you aren't getting QAM and you only did the initial scan, try again.

As for aspect ratio, I'm afraid it has to be set one way for all stations. But it seems that the variable stretch mode (I forget what they call it) is smart enough to only apply it to 4:3 stuff. But that mode is absurd anyway. The nonlinear stretch is way too nonlinear, so edges are obviously distorted. Useless until they fix it.

The dumb stations still don't know how to deliver their stuff properly. The networks are sending 4:3 materials on their HD channels as 16:9 with the black bars as PART of the PICTURE!!! So even though my Toshiba HDTV is capable of detecting 4:3 and do some special magic to them, it can't detect it if the dumb networks are adding the bars and sending the bars as part of a 16:9 picture. Ditto for that useless special stretch mode of the PHD 200. It can automatically apply it to 480i which is actually sent as 4:3, but not to those pseudo-16:9 signals.

The so called EPG is hardly anything. I guess the info is still missing from most of the streams. it isn't really an EPG in the normal sense. You can just call up a display per channel to try to see the name of what is being shown. It does tell you whether it is 480i, 1080i, or 720p being sent.

Overall, I can live with the PHD-200. My Toshiba is from a couple of years ago and therefore only has an analog tuner, so I don't have much choice (the LG 3410A got way too flakey). I hope they fix the sound. I'd like to have one tuner for both analog and digital.

There are some really stupid user interface issues, like the cumbersome channel labeling, losing all your labels if you rescan, no preview as you scroll through your favorites list, etc., etc. I wish the engineers would actually use the damned thing!

Can you post (legible) pictures of the inside showing chip and tuner types?
Or at least let us know what's new....

I think the channel info stuff was Comcast's doing as one day here in eastern PA all the channels started coming across as 3.1 6.1 10.1 etc.. with the station info. I actually had to re-scan both the 101 and the 200 unit to pick them up. Also it looks like Comcast took UHD off open QAM as neither unit picks up that channel anymore. :(

I can no longer find the phd-200 on the epvision website. It seems to have been replaced by the phd-205, available June 2007. Same price, $150 plus shipping.

I looked on the epvision website for their ota units. It shows two of their units uses an ati 240.

How fast are the channel changes on these units. Is it as fast or faster as a db-2010 hisense unit?

Just basically curious on these units.... :rolleyes:

Looks like they finally realized what a mistake it was to not include analog outputs.

I had a preorder, and no word from them on what happened there. It went from Mid april to Late June now for a date. I'm getting a little tired of waiting. :confused:

I can no longer find the phd-200 on the epvision website. It seems to have been replaced by the phd-205, available June 2007. Same price, $150 plus shipping.

Wow... they added "digital volume control" how exciting....

Same chip set.

At this rate I guess they will have the PHD-300 out in time for Christmas then? ;)

Got a statement from them today, no mention of expected ship date:

"Thank you very much for your order of PHD-200. We are sorry that our factory in China has been experiencing production delay due to certain long lead-time parts. In this moment, we can't ship your unit on schedule. However, we are in the stage of getting ready to offer you our newest model PHD-205 for directly replacement PHD-200 and better....."

Wow... they added "digital volume control" how exciting....

Same chip set.
Does the 200 have "Composite & S-Video Outputs"? The PDF they sent in the email makes it seem like that's something new.
At this rate I guess they will have the PHD-300 out in time for Christmas then? ;)
Not out, but listed on their site :p They still won't have shipped any of us anything.


Damn I wish they would hurry up and stock something for me to buy!

So far I have bought both of the units they offered... not sure if I will by this next one since it has the same chipset. The composite out would be nice if it worked at the same time as the HDTV outputs but alas they do not. Now maybe with the 300 model!!! ;)

I guess we better stop this talk of the PHD-300 or someone will come along and ask for a link to it.... LOL ;)

I e-mailed PrimeDTV on the status of the PHD-205 and was told they would ship at the end of the month(June) and provided a link for a $10.00 off the regular price. How many people who own the earlier units(PHD-101/PHD-200) would suggest this product? Also, how does it compare to the Samsung unit for quality?

I have both.... they work... sort of.... some issues with audio. PCM channels dont always produce sound for some reason....

I plan on getting one, hoping they got the 'bugs' out of it. It appears that have addressed many of the issues. I don't know about the orginal 'aspect' issues though. I guess we better stop this talk of the PHD-300 or someone will come along and ask for a link to it.... They do plan on a model with some type of program guide in the future (among other things).

I talked to Allan (I believe that is his name) and the 205 should be available the 1st week of July. I did mention the $10 discount and ordered one.

We also talked about 'future' models which would include a DVR. A program guide would be used, but it won't be TVGOS. The unit will have a ethernet port for internet access that is required for the guide. Probably, Zap2It (or similar) will be used. When I heard this, all I could think of this will more complicated that it needs to be just to avoid TVGOS. He suggested the possibility of transferring files through the ethernet port
I then asked him about a 1394 port, but this damn copyright protection came up. I then mentioned the old LG unit that did had a 1394 port. I strongly suggested including one and gave him links for those older 1394 recorders (AV-HDDs') as an example of a use since a internal HDD can get filled very fast (Indigita still makes them);

http://www.intellasys.net/products/index.php?target=indigita/AVHD.txt

Now owned by 'IntellaSys'.
No timetable for this DVR though.

Where is the link to the $10-off coupon?

No idea. Just mention it, he will give the discount.

Seems like a lot of folks like this tuner for fringe to deep fringe use. Have I found my answer? It's getting toward the end of June. Are folks seeing their pre-orders ship yet?

Right now I'm debating between the PHD 205 and the discontinued USDTV unit at Wally for $100.

Are folks seeing their pre-orders ship yet?Please read my above post.I talked to Allan (I believe that is his name) and the 205 should be available the 1st week of July.

I talked to Allan (I believe that is his name) and the 205 should be available the 1st week of July.

Honestly? That sort of thing scares me when it comes to pre-ordering. Once those deadlines start moving, they often take months to stop moving, and the company ships a few units and a lot of people are left waiting and agitated.

I know they don't charge you until it ships, but you still have to hold that money while you sit there with nothing to show for it.

This is the kind of thing that makes shareholders and stakeholders anxious.

you still have to hold that money while you sit there with nothing to show for it. I don't have to hold anything. It gets charged to my card when it is shipped. This isn't a check or money order we are talking about here.

BTW, I could care less about Wall Street.

Sorry. I tend to be very mercantile. I'm very anti-credit.

I don't like credit either. I have paid off my charges each month since the middle eighties.

I don't like credit either. I have paid off my charges each month since the middle eighties.

I have never owned a single credit card. I came of age just about the time free checking and check cards were first coming into the market. Since a check card does the same job for online purchases, I just keep a checking account for the purpose of paying for stuff online.

Anyhoo...

I wonder how long it will be before we see the first hands-on reviews of the PHD-205. I think I'm leaning heavily toward the PHD. If the NTSC tuner works decently at all, and the 205 lives up to the earlier units' reputations, it is going to be hard to go with any other tuner.

So, has anyone gotten theirs yet?

I'm considering canceling my preorder. The website now states shipping in July. This is a perpetual delay going on.

I called yesterday and was told they are being shipped this week and are expected in Calif. in two weeks. The end of this month is the latest update.

Of course this on the real "slow boat from China".

OK, let me see if I get this straight. This is the only DTV tuner with ATSC/NTSC/QAM? Anywhere? Seriously? Bueller?

I was looking to pick up the Samsung DTB-H260F but upon learning about this PrimeDTV unit from you fine folks, I've been holding out. Fact is, when it comes to electronics, I'm a sissy with zero will power whatsoever. Which means that unless something magical happens, I'd probably end up with the Samsung unit at some point this month. And I'd probably regret it. :(

I am looking to replace (and flog on eBay) the Lg LST3510A unit in my media room having just two days ago bought an Oppo DV-981HD unit.

Help!!!

OK, let me see if I get this straight. This is the only DTV tuner with ATSC/NTSC/QAM? Anywhere? Seriously? Bueller?
For under $300 at the present time, I think so. I know it's hard to believe.

I called yesterday and was told they are being shipped this week and are expected in Calif. in two weeks. The end of this month is the latest update.

Of course this on the real "slow boat from China".Let us know if you actually get one...I almost put in a pre-order but I find it strange that the site has all kinds of things (TV's etc..) yet the only thing they ACTUALLY have for sale right now is a few cables. :confused: I mean...am I the only one that wonders what is going on if people have had pre-orders for months now? Can cable sales actually keep the company afloat?

Bump to see if pre-orders are shipping yet. Btw...the coupon code for $10 off is no longer honored even though they still have it up on the page. :rolleyes:

edit- just got a reply back saying that they do still honor the $10 coupon since no units are shipping currently...although my order doesn't reflect the discount yet. YMMV

edit2- If you pre-order and it won't take the coupon code then just e-mail them and they'll fix it for you....assuming the units aren't shipping yet. Speaking of which, no word yet on a definite ship date. :(

The crew on the "slow boat from China" decided to take a Pacific cruise. ;)

The crew on the "slow boat from China" decided to take a Pacific cruise. ;)Or took a detour to South America and are now selling our boxes (cheap) to tourists disembarking cruise ships..

I had thought about buying one of these units at one time. I don't know now.

Hopefully you'll get one before Christmas and inform everyone on the aspect ratio sensitivity etc of these units...

Good luck on (any) shipment

Well, July is all but gone...anyone get a shipping notice yet? Since the 205 is essentially an update of existing models, I'm thinking that there were either serious hardware/firmware issues with the new features to iron out or the factory in China got busted for slave labor. :rolleyes: