Bill do you have a Fry's in your area, they have a nice 3 meter HDMI cable for $25.

ok, just some quick comments...comparing Oppo to Sony 75.

First remote far nicer on Oppo versus Sony but many use harmony so who cares ;) Sony's remote is a grayed plastic looking prehistoric version remote. No light up buttons and NO bells and whistles. Very basic. Oppos buttons glow and remote is pretty sharp looking.

Picture quality...I went back and forth today picking out different scenes In LOTR-- watched beginning where you see closeup of the head elf's face (forgive me forgot his name!) watched that scene on Oppo then watched it on Sony. Next watched the scene where Gandolf on his way to Bilbo's house (you see light blue sky )large area directly behind his head also the scene where Gandolf is on the cart with Frodo beside him and you get a great shot of his face super detailed. Here is what I was comparing color and detail (using my eyes). The bottom line I think they looked the same-- BOTH EXCELLENT. I tried to pick out little details that may show up better on Oppo but then they were also there on Sony. I personally don't have macroblocking on my Panny 900 but of course the sony doesn't have that problem either. If I'd never seen both I would honestly say for picture go with either- you won't miss anything.

Features- The Oppo has more. At least what I could find. Maybe I am not as good finding hidden menus BUT I couldn't find a place to adjust Gamma and the RGB such like Oppo has. I did set the Sony to RGB in the setup (hope that was right). Oppo was tweaked according to the tweak thread with no filter using the panny 900 and the Panny was not tweaked for the Sony. I set the sharpness to 1 on the Sony and pretty much followed the suggestions of the manual as far as if settings should be on or off. I ran both the Oppo and Sony on cinema 1. and low mode on the Panny 900.

It appears that Oppo has the tweakability factor and Sony is more along the lines of set a few things and move on. They both have an EXCELLENT picture. No shift on the Sony 75 and loading time was about the same. Both allow for skipping chapters and fastforwarding super quick. It comes down to do you want to be able to tweak alot?? Then go with Oppo if you don't have macroblocking issues on your display. If you have macroblocking issues then go with Sony-- picture is still excellent.

Can't give you a good impression of audio as still setting some things up.

If there are alot of tweak factors that I haven't located then hopefully someone will point that out following this post.

Forgot to mention I was runing Oppo DVI/ HDMI and Sony HDMI

After setting up the player HDMI outputting 720p to my Pio Elite 1130, I notice a significant improvement in pq over my venerable Panny RP-91. I have set the picture out of the Sony 75 on "Standard" , sharpness +1: To my eyes this gives the most realistic and neutral picture (I note above that someone has recommended "Cinema 1" as it is the only mode that passes "blacker than black." Can't speak to that, but to my eyes Standard renders the more natural picture).

Pulling out the usual suspects for evaluation, Monsters, Inc. takes on a depth and reveals details I had not heretofore viewed. Likewise, LOTR, Fifth Element, and King Kong. Further, I really like the audio out of the Sony 75, as I have heard dialogue in movies that I have never heard before.

I suppose most others on this forum have had experience with CD and DVD players that play MP3's, but this is my first - and it really works great. Same for jpegs - just put the jpegs on the disc, add a couple of mp3's and you've got an instant slide show. Quite nifty, I think.

The greatest nit that I have to pick is the presence of that damn zoom icon over the zoomed picture - every now and again I would have liked to fill the screen - the presence of that icon makes this feature useless. Hard to imagine what the engineers at Sony were thinking.

In any case, I'd give the player a 9 out of 10!! :D

LIY

I "feel" as if I'm getting more shadow detail than I was with my old DVD player. I'm using the Cinema 1 setting. I've been watching the first part of the extended edition Fellowship of the Ring. Just based on my memory (and I've watched this movie many times), it fees like I'm seeing more shadow detail. I have an LCD TV, which tends to crush blacks a bit, so this is very good news for me...

Mark

Got a DVP-NS75H yesterday. Hooked it up to TV in my bedroom as an extra player. Don't have a receiver yet for the bedroom so hooked the player's analog audio outs directly to my TV. Immediately got a very loud hum (soungs like ground loop) from TV speakers drowning all dialog. Hum goes away if I unhook the Right channel (red) line and leave it in mono. Old players have never had this problem.

Tried changing cables, moving player, different outlet and hum persisted unless in mono through left channel only. Returned and exchanged player for a new one and new one does the same thing.

Anyone have any ideas on what I might try next or does the best buy near me have a batch of bad players?

Thanks

Just watched King Kong on my 60 inch SXRD and it was just incredible. My previous player was a DCDi equiped Zenith DVB318 and I always had macroblocking problems with that player in dark scenes upconverting to 1080i thru component. The NS75H using HDMI set at 1080i is a very noticable improvement, no macroblocking at all and very nice blacks. The picture is definitely better than the Zenith. This player will tide me over until the true HiDef players come down in price.

I hope your right my DVB318 just crapped out on me and this looks like it may be a best bang for the buck.

I started with a NS70H and exhanged it for a NS90V for the SACD capability. I was very pleased with both players, but troubled by "the shift" on my 50" SXRD. Almost kept the second player, but since the remote was DOA anyway, I decided to return it to give the NS75H a chance. As others have reported, in limited testing, it seems to equal the peformance of the NS70H, but without the shift issue!

In the Chicago area, I found the 85H (changer in black) at BB and Fry's and the 75H at CC. I'm a little disappointed that there is no replacement model with SACD right now (the old changer had SACD but no HDMI, and the new changer has HDMI but no SACD), and I prefer the standard form factor of the previous players as opposed to the ultra slim design of the new model. But it's hard to go wrong for $129.

No image shift problems, although I found that feeding the signal as 480p over HDMI and letting the Panny's scalers do the rest worked the best.


Interesting. Anyone else finding 480p better than 1080i?

I did set the Sony to RGB in the setup (hope that was right).

Actually I thought you'd want to run in the default mode, not RGB; isn't that right?

Can someone check the manual and let me know what the warranty is? amazon says 1 year/90 days, but Best Buy says 1 year/1 year.

Thanks,
Jim

How is the picture quality with components? I would prefer to user the component output to connect the player to my Hitachi 51f520. I tried hdmi with a Panasonic S77 but didn't see any improvements compared to components. I didn't keep the Panasonic because it could not read double layer home made dvd. How is the Sony doing with those dvd?

I'm not sure about the default mode or RGB...I thought in the 70 thread they had said to do that but I will go back and reread.

Bill,BB has one on sale for 52.00-

just need to bring a print out for the price match.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6821317&type=product&id=1091101517438

30 day return policy on all cables;)


Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered on on MONOPRICE for 18 bucks shipped. when I get the player hooked up later in the week I will post a review.

How is the picture quality with components? I would prefer to user the component output to connect the player to my Hitachi 51f520. I tried hdmi with a Panasonic S77 but didn't see any improvements compared to components. I didn't keep the Panasonic because it could not read double layer home made dvd. How is the Sony doing with those dvd?

Sony worked great with Fuji R+ D/L! No problems of any kind. (Could not play the disc on any Panasonic Player that I own - RP91, S77, S35, or Panny DVD Recorder).

LIY

Can someone check the manual and let me know what the warranty is? amazon says 1 year/90 days, but Best Buy says 1 year/1 year.

Thanks,
JimStandard Sony warranty....90 days parts and labor, 1 year parts only.

For those who were familiar with the 70H and have the 75H-- I am sending back the Oppo mainly because I didn't like their aspect settings. Loss of resolution and such with some aspects. Is there ANY loss of picture with running a 2:35 movie-- did you guys just set it to 16:9? Also, I reread in the 70 thread that some menus could only be gotten to when movie was loaded - is that still the case and what is it I haven't gotten to? Is there any way to adjust color in this dvd player like you could in the OPPO?? Thx!

For those who were familiar with the 70H and have the 75H-- I am sending back the Oppo mainly because I didn't like their aspect settings. Loss of resolution and such with some aspects. Is there ANY loss of picture with running a 2:35 movie-- did you guys just set it to 16:9? Also, I reread in the 70 thread that some menus could only be gotten to when movie was loaded - is that still the case and what is it I haven't gotten to? Is there any way to adjust color in this dvd player like you could in the OPPO?? Thx!

Setting it on 16:9 does not solve the black bars at the bottom and top of a 2.35:1 movie. This is pretty irritating as you have noticed. Some are even worse than others; I put in The Doors and it was like I was watching it thru my fingers with my hand over my face.

I think I read upthread somewhere an adjust to take care of this, though not the zoom.

I am at work so I can't search the menu. Does anybody have any more details on how to get rid of the bars without zoom? Thanks.

Also, you must shut off the DVD to adjust the main settings....

I knew about the black bars as I see them on every DVD player- that isn't a problem- I just wanted to make sure setting the dvd player to 16:9 would allow the entire 2:35 movie to show. I did the stopping of DVD to adjust main settings but from what I understood in the 70H sight there is one that you get while dvd is playing...is that true and can color be adjusted like on Oppo?? Thx!

I can do it with my TV viewing settings. When I select "natural" it defaults to 2:35:1 that the dvd player puts out. Since this aspect ratio is slimmer than a 16:9 TV screen, there are black bars on the top and bottom. If I select other viewing modes (widescreen 1,2,etc) I can fill the entire screen either by stretching the picture vertically or filling the entire verticle screen at the expense of cutting off a few inches off each side. I have a toshiba DLP.

For those interested in using the component connection you should save your money and get a lower cost player. The benefit of this and the Oppo are the ability to upscale to 720P and 1080i using the HDMI or DVI output

RWESTLEY-- are there any menus that can be gotten to while dvd is working and can color be adjusted??

On BB's site, they have both players listed, but the 85 in black only. I hope they have the silver one in the store. Anybody get a silver 85 from BB?

You can't get into the setup menu when a disk is playing on the Oppo. You can bring up the virtual keypad which lets you use many remote functions on screen.

Do we know when NS75H will be available in Canada? On-line (sony.ca) or retail?

Thanks.

Received the 85 today from Crutchfield.

Typical Sony build quality, which is either a good or bad thing depending on what you think of Sony.

For progressive film content, the picture quality is outstanding, just like with the previous model.

However, like with the previous models, interlaced content REALLY suffers. The player introduces alot of artifacts at every resolution, and quite frankly looks like crap. If you watch alot of TV show DVD's, many of which are encoded as pure interlaced video, you will want to avoid this player.

Audio is of typical Sony quality.

Kai

Some findings...
I am comparing the Oppo 971H and the Sony NS75H on my NEC 50XR5, and when (if) I get a chance I will spend a little time writing up my a more detailed comparison, conclusion, settings etc but here is an Overview on the NS75H with a little comparison to the 971H for those who might be interested.

In short (considering my short look) for the MRSP/Features/PQ and Audio the Sony NS75H is absolutely a Keeper, (now whether I am keeping it over the Oppo, that is not yet decided) I can say that I would be happy with either...

Setup
Display : NEC 50XR5 (Amazing PDP ... just had to say it!)
DVD Player: Oppo 971H DVI-> HDMI, Digital/Optical out
DVD Player: Sony 75H HDMI->HDMI, Digital/Optical out
Cabling : Quality Non-Monster (Monoprice and cable form Oppo)
Digital/Component: I have only tested via DVI/HDMI, that is all I am interested in.
Resolution: 480p over HDMI for both rendered best PQ
Settings: if I get a chance I can report on mine, but in short, I use basic/default settings, except where it definitely makes sense to set and let the Panel (my awesome panel) do the work.
NS75H : Black Level=Off, HDMI=YBR, pretty much everything else off or defaults.
971H: Video2, True Life=off, CSS=off, NR=off, most everything else default

On NS75H Questions / Concerns:
No Vertial Shift Apparent, i.e. the Vertical Shift as reported with the NS70H is not present. (although I have never seen that player) Image appears to be full and rendered properly. i.e. renders full image on full screen i.e. correct anamorphic.

Fairly Smooth Operation. (The FF and Slow works very well)

I found the unit fairly easy to configure and use.

Sony manual is actually usable.

Some Comparisons:
The NS75H rendered excellent PQ for 480p over HDMI comparable to the Oppo and yes the Oppo has excellent PQ. (480p seems to be what my display likes best from both Players, NEC Scalar is very good, 1080i seemed to add artifacts in particular Vertical Artifacts, 720p was in between, I think this will vary from display to display)
I say PQ comparable and close (for what I have demo'd), but I will not say equal to or exceeds the Oppo. The PQ with the Oppo is simply Outstanding! More on that if/when I can get the time to to go into the detail (demo'd LOTR TTT & Monsters, Inc), I spent my most critical time with the 5th element, and I will say 5th Element, Superbit Looked VERY Good on the NS75H, I did a number checks of comparisons, detail, vertical, horizontal angled artifacts, lettering, color etc. The Oppo still got a slight Nod, picture is just a touch cleaner in some of these areas, (maybe fiddling with the NS75H settings I might be able to get closer). But in short I was verrrrry please with the NS75H picture quality.

STRANGE/INTERESTING The Experiment: (I am fearing even bringing this up because of the tangents it can lead to) I did find that the PQ on frozen/paused frames for Sony NS75H the was not as good as when the frames were rendered during Normal or "Slow/Super Super" play. I find this interesting and will delve into more if I get the chance. Yes I know this sounds weird, if you don't believe me do your own actual experiment (no unobserved theory please) with paused frames and then same frames on super slow ... you will see the differences. On the other hand paused frames on the Oppo were simply beautiful. Feel free to try this experiment yourself. I have some theories on this but again I am not an expert, if I get a chance I will provide great details into replicating "The Experiment" and If I get a chance I will shoot some pictures. Do not confuse this with ACTUAL RUNNING PQ, does not seem to effect that. This WOULD NOT... I repeat WOULD NOT ..... affect my decision on the 75H (thats for those of you that are looking for flaws in an inexpensive player) AGAIN Only reason I even bring this up is that I found it interesting

Build quality of both seemed ok, solid... nothing rattling ;)

Connectivity, pretty much equal with exception NS75H HDMI HDCP compliant, Oppo 971H DVI Non-HDCP compliant.

On screen displays I was fine with both, on player display I think the Sony is better, the Oppo is a bit hard to read.

Both Player allow adjustment of most the common settings (contrast brightness, filters etc) while DVD is playing. However both require stopping the DVD to change resolutions and detailed settings.

Very cursory MacroBlocking test showed MBE not present on both players when paired with the NECXR50 (SWEPII, LOTR:TTT, Monsters Inc, 5th): Was expecting not present on Sony, (non-Faroudja), happy not present on Oppo (Faroudja), need to do a little more checking.

The audio is very good, and would probably give the Sony a nod over the Oppo when it comes to Audio (however I find audio very subjective for me and hard to compare).

Other features etc... FF, Skip, Slow Play etc all worked fine. I don't use Zoom really. Oppo has occasional problems with subtitles that can be fixed with settings, thought I saw a strange Sub title or 2 on NS75H as well during SWEP II, though couldn't replicate.

SUMMARY
PQ give slight nod to Oppo, plus the ability to upgrade firmware/flexibility. (After all, who am I to argue with the HiFI Secret guys, I certainly didn't do all their test). But to be sure the PQ of the NS75H is very good, especially considering the MSRP.
Audio slight nod to the Sony.
Overall... thats your decision :cool:

OTHER STUFF:
I have also seen A LOT of questions about settings... one thing I noticed is that the manual for the Sony player is better than most. Most the questions I have seen WRSPT setting are in the manual. In short my philosophy for a "Inexpensive" DVD player is keep the setting basic and use your display to do the work, if you have an older display you may want to take advantage of the settings in the DVD.

I left all the "Playback Adjustments in their defaults. "Custom Picture Mode" (hit Display twice, go to Memory, picture, brightness, hues, ) settings off or default, Also you can find sharpness, bnr, mnr etc. These can be displayed/adjusted while the DVD is playing. pg 45 of the manual

If you are using HDMI you should probably use the default of YBR.

Cinema1 is the correct way to lower black llevel through HDMI. Corrected by JimSD

I have noticed some questions on the Oppo Operation there is a great thread on the Oppo that will most certainly answer those questions.

I reserve the right to be wrong and change my mind.....

Interesting review bvader, now you have me wanting to try the NS75H on our plasma (currently on smaller LCD). Would have to get an HDMI->DVI cable or adapter though.

There is a black level setting besides the Cinema1 it is on the Screen Setup Menu.
My understanding is that these settings have no effect when you are using the HDMI output. One of them is for outputs other than component and HDMI, the other is for component. The manual recommends using Cinema 1 for movies - I guess that's their way of saying it passes BTB that way.

Some findings...
I am comparing the Oppo 971H and the Sony NS75H on my NEC 50XR5, and when (if) I get a chance I will spend a little time writing up my a more detailed comparison, conclusion, settings etc but here is an Overview on the NS75H with a little comparison to the 971H for those who might be interested.

In short (considering my short look) for the MRSP/Features/PQ and Audio the Sony NS75H is absolutely a Keeper, (now whether I am keeping it over the Oppo, that is not yet decided) I can say that I would be happy with either...

Setup
Display : NEC 50XR5 (Amazing PDP ... just had to say it!)
DVD Player: Oppo 971H DVI-> HDMI, Digital/Optical out
DVD Player: Sony 75H HDMI->HDMI, Digital/Optical out
Cabling : Quality Non-Monster (Monoprice and cable form Oppo)
Digital/Component: I have only tested via DVI/HDMI, that is all I am interested in.
Resolution: 480p over HDMI for both rendered best PQ
Settings: if I get a chance I can report on mine, but in short, I use basic/default settings, except where it definitely makes sense to set and let the Panel (my awesome panel) do the work.
NS75H : Black Level=Off, HDMI=YBR, pretty much everything else off or defaults.
971H: Video2, True Life=off, CSS=off, NR=off, most everything else default

On NS75H Questions / Concerns:
No Shift

Appears to render full image on full screen i.e. correct anamorphic.

Fairly Smooth Operation. (The FF and Slow works very well)

I found the unit fairly easy to configure and use.

Sony manual is actually usable.

Some Comparisons:
Excellent PQ for 480p over HDMI comparable to the Oppo and yes the Oppo has excellent PQ. (480p seems to be what my display likes best from both Players, NEC Scalar is very good, 1080i seemed to add artifacts in particular Vertical Artifacts, 720p was in between, I think this will vary from display to display)
I say PQ comparable and close (for what I have demo's), but I will not say equal to or exceeds the Oppo. The PQ with the Oppo is simply Outstanding! More on that if/when I can get the time to to go into the detail (LOTR TTT & MonstersInc), I spent my most critical time with the 5th element, and I will say 5th Element, Superbit Looked VERY Good on the NS75H, I did a number checks of comparisons, detail, vertical, horizontal angled artifacts, lettering, color etc. The Oppo still got a slight Nod, picture is just a touch cleaner, (maybe fiddling with the NS75H settings I might be able to get closer). But in short I was verrrrry please with the NS75H picture quality.

STRANGE/INTERESTING The Experiment: (I am fearing bring this even up because of the tangents it can lead to) I did find that the PQ on frozen/paused frames for Sony NS75H the was not as good as when the frames were rendered during Normal or "Slow/Super Super" play. I find this interesting and will delve into more if I get the chance. Yes I know this sounds weird, if you don't believe me do your own actual experiment (no unobserved theory please) with paused frames and then same frames on super slow ... you will see the differences. On the other hand paused frames on the Oppo were simply beautiful. Feel free to try this experiment yourself. I have some theories on this but again I am not an expert, if I get a chance I will provide great details into replicating "The Experiment" and If I get a chance I will shoot some pictures. Do not confuse this with ACTUAL RUNNING PQ, does not seem to effect that. This WOULD NOT... I repeat WOULD NOT ..... affect my decision on the 75H (thats for those of you that are looking for flaws in an inexpensive player) AGAIN Only reason I even bring this up is that I found it interesting

Build quality of both seemed ok, solid... nothing rattling ;)

Connectivity, pretty much equal with exception NS75H HDMI HDCP compliant, Oppo 971H DVI Non-HDCP compliant.

On screen displays I was fine with both, on player display I think the Sony is better, the Oppo is a bit hard to read.

Both Player allow adjustment of most the common settings (contrast brightness, filters etc) while DVD is playing. However both require stopping the DVD to change resolutions and detailed settings.

Very cursory MacroBlocking test showed MBE not present on both players when paired with the NECXR50 (SWEPII, LOTR:TTT, Monsters Inc, 5th): Was expecting not present on Sony, (non-Faroudja), happy not present on Oppo (Faroudja), need to do a little more checking.

The audio is very good, and would probably give the Sony a nod over the Oppo when it comes to Audio (however I find audio very subjective for me and hard to compare).

Other features etc... FF, Skip, Slow Play etc all worked fine. I don't use Zoom really. Oppo has occasional problems with subtitles that can be fixed with settings, thought I saw a strange Sub title or 2 on NS75H as well during SWEP II, though couldn't replicate.

SUMMARY
PQ give slight nod to Oppo, plus the ability to upgrade firmware/flexibility. (After all, who am I to argue with the HiFI Secret guys, I certainly didn't do all their test). But to be sure the PQ of the NS75H is very good, especially considering the MSRP.
Audio slight nod to the Sony.
Overall... thats your decision :cool:

OTHER STUFF:
I have also seen A LOT of questions about settings... one thing I noticed is that the manual for the Sony player is better than most. Most the questions I have seen WRSPT setting are in the manual. In short my philosophy for a "Inexpensive" DVD player is keep the setting basic and use your display to do the work, if you have an older display you may want to take advantage of the settings in the DVD.

I left all the "Playback Adjustments in their defaults. "Custom Picture Mode" (hit Display twice, go to Memory, picture, brightness, hues, ) settings off or default, Also you can find sharpness, bnr, mnr etc. These can be displayed/adjusted while the DVD is playing. pg 45 of the manual

If you are using HDMI you should probably use the default of YBR.

There is a black level setting besides the Cinema1 it is on the Screen Setup Menu.

I have noticed some questions on the Oppo Operation there is a great thread on the Oppo that will most certainly answer those questions.

I reserve the right to be wrong and change my mind.....

If your not using the upscaling features in these players and relying on the NEC scaler then you might benefit even more from the new OPPO player coming out that is able to send a 480I signal unaltered from transport to display and let the NEC handle it from their. It is suppose to be realeased at the end of April for a price between $129.99-149.99. Just something to think about.

...
My understanding is that these settings have no effect when you are using the HDMI output. One of them is for outputs other than component and HDMI, the other is for component. The manual recommends using Cinema 1 for movies - I guess that's their way of saying it passes BTB that way.

I took a closer look, I think you are right, Thanks for the correction I updated the post.

If your not using the upscaling features in these players and relying on the NEC scaler then you might benefit even more from the new OPPO player coming out that is able to send a 480I signal unaltered from transport to display and let the NEC handle it from their. It is suppose to be realeased at the end of April for a price between $129.99-149.99. Just something to think about.

Quite possibly true... but I have auditioned 3 players already, not looking forward to a 4th, I would probably wait for the 971H replacement due out late summer if I was gonna make a change. For the moment I am choosing between these 2.

Any ideas how the new Pioneer 696 will compare?

I thought I would give a quick review. I set up my new sony 75 tonight paired up with a TOSHIBA 53" DLP (HM95). PLEASE NOTE THAT I DO NOT HAVE AN HDMI CABLE YET (it should be here by week's end), SO RIGHT NOW I HAVE IT HOOKED UP WITH COMPONENT CABLES.

I put in the Star Wars Attack of the Clones DVD. Initially I saw no picture quality difference compared to my 6 yr old Toshiba 3109 player. After tweaking a few things the picture did seem a bit more vibrant, but no drastic differences. Also, most of the picture adjustments had minimal or no noticable effect on the picture. Even the THX optimizer screens looked identical as with my old player. It could be my display, but with either player I still can't see the 4 shades of white on the first video test screen, it just looks like one large white box all the same shade.....

The remote feels a bit cheap and I am disappointed that it isn't black (I like black remotes). It serves it's purpose though, and is easy to navigate. The player all and all is very easy to navigate through, and the manual is very helpful.

Sound is another story. I noticed a significant difference in sound over my old player. More dynamic range and just a fuller sound in general. I still have to play with some settings, but so far so good.

Well I am hoping to see a difference in the picture when I go HDMI later in the week. I will report back then with my findings.

Lastly, and I know some of you aren't going to believe this, but I didn't see ANY difference in picture (even in fast action scenes) when the progressive scan button was activated (420p) from when it was not (420i). If anything the picture seemed more choppy when running 420p. Very strange.....but my honest findings.

it looks like I'm going to pick up a sony 85h very soon!!!

excellent info from everybody, keep them coming!!!

Couple quick questions.

Is there a black version of the 75? I know there is a black 85.

How quiet is the 75 and 85 during movie playback? Is the drive mechanism silent during playback?

Thanks.

Zzen -- As far as I can tell the NS75 is silver and the NS85 is black and there are no other choices.

I did find some references to a black NS75, but when I looked at the specifications for it, the color was listed as “silver” :eek:.

I'm curious though, for the older versions, the NS70 has specs similar to the new NS75. The NS80 added both a 5 disk changer and SACD playback for the extra price. I can’t find any information on the NS85 on-line to find out if it has SACD playback also.

When I originally picked mine up I hadn't gotten an HDMI cable (ordered one from Monoprice) so I had it hooked up with component cables.

Finally last night I was able to hook it up with an HDMI cable.

My last unit was a Samsung 841 unit, which to sayt the least, I was very much unhappy with.

Upon hooking this one up with the HDMI cable I can say I am quite impressed. To me, picture looks MUCH better than my last player. Very crisp, vibrant. I have a PIO 5060HD and with the Samsung I had to push color to like +12 to get a vibrant picture and to calibrate it according to the AVIA disk. This one... that setting is actually about -5.

Anyway... played several discs, and I am thinking this player is a keeper. Picture is great. I do not notice a ton of difference between 720 or 1080 though... so I am keeping it at 1080. Blacks seemed much better. On my Samsung it was this grayish crap and no real gradations or definition to darker scenes. With the Sony, even my girlfriend was noticing the much sharper, and clearer picture and how much more detail there was in darker scenes.

As for sound, I was impressed. The sound is IMHO much better with the Sony. Actually heard alot more, especially from the rear surround speakers. A few times my girlfriend was looking around or even jumping. I played the battle scenes from Master and COmmander and some LOTR scenes, and you could hear extra details I think I was missing from the Samsung. Course this could just be my opinion only... but I am impressed with this player overall and do not see myself returning it.

To whomever asked about noise of the player during playback... I didn't hear a peep from the player... quiet as a mouse. Normal load time, responsive remote (though once I had it set up, I use my Harmony 676).

When I originally picked mine up I hadn't gotten an HDMI cable (ordered one from Monoprice) so I had it hooked up with component cables.

Finally last night I was able to hook it up with an HDMI cable.

My last unit was a Samsung 841 unit, which to sayt the least, I was very much unhappy with.

Upon hooking this one up with the HDMI cable I can say I am quite impressed. To me, picture looks MUCH better than my last player. Very crisp, vibrant. I have a PIO 5060HD and with the Samsung I had to push color to like +12 to get a vibrant picture and to calibrate it according to the AVIA disk. This one... that setting is actually about -5.

Anyway... played several discs, and I am thinking this player is a keeper. Picture is great. I do not notice a ton of difference between 720 or 1080 though... so I am keeping it at 1080. Blacks seemed much better. On my Samsung it was this grayish crap and no real gradations or definition to darker scenes. With the Sony, even my girlfriend was noticing the much sharper, and clearer picture and how much more detail there was in darker scenes.

As for sound, I was impressed. The sound is IMHO much better with the Sony. Actually heard alot more, especially from the rear surround speakers. A few times my girlfriend was looking around or even jumping. I played the battle scenes from Master and COmmander and some LOTR scenes, and you could hear extra details I think I was missing from the Samsung. Course this could just be my opinion only... but I am impressed with this player overall and do not see myself returning it.

To whomever asked about noise of the player during playback... I didn't hear a peep from the player... quiet as a mouse. Normal load time, responsive remote (though once I had it set up, I use my Harmony 676).

Ashlan, are you setting the Sony to "Standard" or "Cinema 1" (or using another setting)?


LIY

For any of you in the Central Florida area, BB now has them in stock in most stores. The BB associates are completely clueless. On Saturday, they told me they would not have the 75H in stock until May. He could not explain why other stores all over the country already had them. On Monday, I called again and they said they do not have them in stock and it would be awhile. I was about to order it online, but checked the BB website first. Just an hour after they told me they would not have them in stock, they were listed on the website as in-stock for all the stores in the Orlando area. Needless to say, I went ahead and grabbed one there last evening. I ordered the HDMI cable from Blue Jeans Cable and see that they shipped it the same day. I can't wait to get everything hooked up to my new 50" SXRD. Should look great!!

I was wondering if anyone knew if this player was available anywhere in Canada, or if it will ever come to Canada for that matter?

Have checked with 2 Futureshop's and a BestBuy, neither of them could tell me zip. I would love to know if the 75H & 85H are on there way, otherwise I'll just end up buying from the US and blowing the warrenty :( .

Thanks

Tony

Oops...

Ashlan, are you setting the Sony to "Standard" or "Cinema 1" (or using another setting)?


LIY

currently have it on Cinema One setting, but have tried the Standard setting and probably in long run will use the standard setting as most tweaks I do with my 5060 and not the DVD player. Cinema One is a great "out of the box" setting overall though.

I'm curious though, for the older versions, the NS70 has specs similar to the new NS75. The NS80 added both a 5 disk changer and SACD playback for the extra price. I can’t find any information on the NS85 on-line to find out if it has SACD playback also.

No, the NS85 does not have SACD playback.

I was initially confused by this too because the NS80 did, and Amazon had erroneously posted that that th NS85 did as well. I still haven't seen a display model, but I have closely examined the box, and there is no mention of it whatsoever, and the illustration shows no logo or light on the front as there was on the 80. Crutchfield appears to have accurate photos of the NS85, and there are no 5.1 ouputs on the back.

When I originally picked mine up I hadn't gotten an HDMI cable (ordered one from Monoprice) so I had it hooked up with component cables.

Finally last night I was able to hook it up with an HDMI cable.


Good move on the Monoprice cable. I'm not going to say that there aren't instances--or systems--where higher priced cables don't make sense, but I'm dumbfounded when people are talking about spending $50-100+ on an HDMI cable to connect a cable box or a $100 DVD player. Especially when you need 2 or 3 of them. If someone is convinced it is better, that's fine. But there are an awful lot of posts on here that seem to assume that going to DVI or HDMI requires you to spend a lot of money on cables. Try the $7 one first. Or buy both and return one.

Good move on the Monoprice cable. I'm not going to say that there aren't instances--or systems--where higher priced cables don't make sense, but I'm dumbfounded when people are talking about spending $50-100+ on an HDMI cable to connect a cable box or a $100 DVD player. Especially when you need 2 or 3 of them. If someone is convinced it is better, that's fine. But there are an awful lot of posts on here that seem to assume that going to DVI or HDMI requires you to spend a lot of money on cables. Try the $7 one first. Or buy both and return one.

I have to agree with you on cables. I believe this is an area that is "overpriced" and you pay for a name. If the $100 cable shows significant PQ/AQ over the $7.00 cable then I will pay for the "higher quality" but.... thats not my experience. Any one else out there have tried "cheap" vs "expensive" and have seen/heard a SIGNIFICANT difference?

Well, I have paid Higher prices in the past and to me, overall most are not worth it. Second, to me, Monoprice's hdmi cable I bought was very good quality and build. My system is by no means lower end (nor higher end... heh heh), and in some places I have spent more money cause I think it is worth it, but when you go to CC or BB or whatnot and see a .5 meter HDMI cable for $129 and I can get the same from Mono for $14 plus shipping... I will take a chance to have an extra $100+ to spend elsewhere, like on speakers or receiver or even when I saved for my PIO 5060HD.

It is like ones who think buying nothing but Monster or Bose is the way to go... IMHO... disallusioned.

But to each their own. I say... try ones from a place like Mono... they suck... then send them back... but if they work great... you just got a good chunk of change to put elsewhere in yoru system.

I spent some time last evening with the Sony DVP-NS75H. I put it through it's paces with the HQV Benchmark DVD version 1.4. I also retested the Sony DVP-NS70H and a Panasonic DVD-S77S (Faroudja based) as references. All players were hooked up to a JVC HD56G786 D-ILA 720p native display via HDMI. The players were set as follows.

Sony Players:

TV Type: 16:9
YCBCR/RGB: YCBCR
Black Level: On
Progressive: Auto
Picture Mode:Standard
Sharpness: Off

Noise Reduction (DVP-NS75H Only):

BNR: Off
MNR: Off

Panasonic DVD-S77S:

Transfer: Auto1

Manu Sony Sony Sony Panny Panny Panny Sony Sony Sony
Player DVPNS75H DVPNS75H DVPNS75H DVDS77S DVDS77S DVDS77S DVPNS70H DVPNS70H DVPNS70H
Connect HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI
Res 720p 1080i 480p 720p 1080i 480p 720p 1080i 480p

Color/Vert 5 5 10 10 5 5 10 10 10
Jaggies 1 3 3 3 5 5 5 3 3 3
Jaggies 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Flag 5 5 5 10 10 10 5 5 5
Picture Detl 10 0 0 10 10 10 10 10 10
Noise Red NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
MA Noise Red NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
Film Detail 0 0 0 5 5 5 0 0 0

2:2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2:2:2:4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2:3:3:2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3:2:3:2:2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
6:4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8:7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3:2 0 0 0 5 5 5 0 0 0
Mixed 3:2 H 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
Mixed 3:2 V 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10

Total 46 36 41 68 63 63 51 51 51


The Tests

If you are unfamiliar with the HQV Benchmark disc, you can review the manual at HQV manual (http://www.siliconoptix.com/contentEngine/dspDocumentDownload.cfm?PCVID=6557af58-7e90-e2a3-bea3-f6ec25bf8781). Some of the tests can be a little subjective. Adhering strictly to the scoring instructions does a pretty good job of weeding out subjectivity but it's not fool proof.

Take the scores for what they are. They primarily test a player's or display's deinterlacing capability. When watching well made DVDs of movies even basic deinterlacing will look great. When DVDs are made from video sources, movies reedited in video, etc. the basic deinterlacers start to show their flaws. Take the scores for what they are.

Also keep in mind that these tests were administered on my display. While that will not affect deinterlacing performance on progressive output, changes of resolution may affect the test slightly as my display will have to scale anything other than 720p.


Sony DVP-NS75H

While this player is an improvement in that it doesn't shift the image as the 70H did it appears to be inferior at deinterlacing and perhaps scaling. In the Color/Vertical Detail test it shows lost resolution at position #1 on the pattern. Position #1 consists of closely space horizontal lines that alternate between black and white. At 720p and 1080i the lines blend together every so many lines in a pattern. Only at 480p are the lines displayed crisply and cleanly.

In the Picture Detail test the player showed a loss of detail in the bricks on the bridge at 1080i and 480p. The edges of the bricks totally vanish at some points on the bridge. In my notes I noted that the player looked soft at these resolutions.

A new feature to this player is the addition of noise reduction. The settings are called BNR and MNR (mosquito noise reduction). I found the noise reduction functions to be useless and in some cases made the material look worse. Your millage may vary.

Overall this player is more a lateral movement than a step up from the 70H. It has some new features and does not shift the image as the 70H does but to say it is an improvement is a stretch.

Someone asked if this player plays DVD+R DL discs and it does. All the players tested here played the same DVD+R DL without error.


Sony DVP-NS70H

Short of the image shift this is a good player for the price although its deinterlacing skills leave much to be desired. This is quickly becoming the standard that inexpensive DVD players are tested against, especially Sonys.


Panasonic DVD-S77S

Employing the Fouradja chip this player, and others based on the same chip, is a wonder of deinterlacing for the price. I use it as a reference as I don't have and currently cant afford a better deinterlacer. If it wasn't for macroblock enhancing, this player, and the others like it, would be the gold standard.

I had never tested this player at anything but 720p. I had assumed that 1080i would leave the deinterlacing up to my display but it's clear that the player deinterlaces all output on the HDMI interface. It must interlace it to output 1080i. It makes me wonder if the other players do this as well.

Again, this and all the players play DVD+R Dual Layer DVDs without error.

Well, I have paid Higher prices in the past and to me, overall most are not worth it. Second, to me, Monoprice's hdmi cable I bought was very good quality and build. My system is by no means lower end (nor higher end... heh heh), and in some places I have spent more money cause I think it is worth it, but when you go to CC or BB or whatnot and see a .5 meter HDMI cable for $129 and I can get the same from Mono for $14 plus shipping... I will take a chance to have an extra $100+ to spend elsewhere, like on speakers or receiver or even when I saved for my PIO 5060HD.

It is like ones who think buying nothing but Monster or Bose is the way to go... IMHO... disallusioned.

But to each their own. I say... try ones from a place like Mono... they suck... then send them back... but if they work great... you just got a good chunk of change to put elsewhere in yoru system.

I couldnt agree more!

I spent some time last evening with the Sony DVP-NS75H. I put it through it's paces with the HQV Benchmark DVD version 1.4. I also retested the Sony DVP-NS70H and a Panasonic DVD-S77S (Faroudja based) as references. All players were hooked up to a JVC HD56G786 D-ILA 720p native display via HDMI. The players were set as follows.

Sony Players:

TV Type: 16:9
YCBCR/RGB: YCBCR
Black Level: On
Progressive: Auto
Picture Mode:Standard
Sharpness: Off

Noise Reduction (DVP-NS75H Only):

BNR: Off
MNR: Off

Panasonic DVD-S77S:

Transfer: Auto1

Manu Sony Sony Sony Panny Panny Panny Sony Sony Sony
Player DVPNS75H DVPNS75H DVPNS75H DVDS77S DVDS77S DVDS77S DVPNS70H DVPNS70H DVPNS70H
Connect HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI HDMI
Res 720p 1080i 480p 720p 1080i 480p 720p 1080i 480p

Color/Vert 5 5 10 10 5 5 10 10 10
Jaggies 1 3 3 3 5 5 5 3 3 3
Jaggies 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Flag 5 5 5 10 10 10 5 5 5
Picture Detl 10 0 0 10 10 10 10 10 10
Noise Red NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
MA Noise Red NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
Film Detail 0 0 0 5 5 5 0 0 0

2:2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2:2:2:4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2:3:3:2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3:2:3:2:2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
6:4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8:7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3:2 0 0 0 5 5 5 0 0 0
Mixed 3:2 H 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
Mixed 3:2 V 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10

Total 46 36 41 68 63 63 51 51 51


The Tests

If you are unfamiliar with the HQV Benchmark disc, you can review the manual at HQV manual (http://www.siliconoptix.com/contentEngine/dspDocumentDownload.cfm?PCVID=6557af58-7e90-e2a3-bea3-f6ec25bf8781). Some of the tests can be a little subjective. Adhering strictly to the scoring instructions does a pretty good job of weeding out subjectivity but it's not fool proof.

Take the scores for what they are. They primarily test a player's or display's deinterlacing capability. When watching well made DVDs of movies even basic deinterlacing will look great. When DVDs are made from video sources, movies reedited in video, etc. the basic deinterlacers start to show their flaws. Take the scores for what they are.

Also keep in mind that these tests were administered on my display. While that will not affect deinterlacing performance on progressive output, changes of resolution may affect the test slightly as my display will have to scale anything other than 720p.


Sony DVP-NS75H

While this player is an improvement in that it doesn't shift the image as the 70H did it appears to be inferior at deinterlacing and perhaps scaling. In the Color/Vertical Detail test it shows lost resolution at position #1 on the pattern. Position #1 consists of closely space horizontal lines that alternate between black and white. At 720p and 1080i the lines blend together every so many lines in a pattern. Only at 480p are the lines displayed crisply and cleanly.

In the Picture Detail test the player showed a loss of detail in the bricks on the bridge at 1080i and 480p. The edges of the bricks totally vanish at some points on the bridge. In my notes I noted that the player looked soft at these resolutions.

A new feature to this player is the addition of noise reduction. The settings are called BNR and MNR (mosquito noise reduction). I found the noise reduction functions to be useless and in some cases made the material look worse. Your millage may vary.

Overall this player is more a lateral movement than a step up from the 70H. It has some new features and does not shift the image as the 70H does but to say it is an improvement is a stretch.

Someone asked if this player plays DVD+R DL discs and it does. All the players tested here played the same DVD+R DL without error.


Sony DVP-NS70H

Short of the image shift this is a good player for the price although its deinterlacing skills leave much to be desired. This is quickly becoming the standard that inexpensive DVD players are tested against, especially Sonys.


Panasonic DVD-S77S

Employing the Fouradja chip this player, and others based on the same chip, is a wonder of deinterlacing for the price. I use it as a reference as I don't have and currently cant afford a better deinterlacer. If it wasn't for macroblock enhancing, this player, and the others like it, would be the gold standard.

I had never tested this player at anything but 720p. I had assumed that 1080i would leave the deinterlacing up to my display but it's clear that the player deinterlaces all output on the HDMI interface. It must interlace it to output 1080i. It makes me wonder if the other players do this as well.

Again, this and all the players play DVD+R Dual Layer DVDs without error.

Jeff... pardon my ignorance. Is a higher total better or worse?

I was wondering if anyone knew if this player was available anywhere in Canada, or if it will ever come to Canada for that matter?

Have checked with 2 Futureshop's and a BestBuy, neither of them could tell me zip. I would love to know if the 75H & 85H are on there way, otherwise I'll just end up buying from the US and blowing the warrenty :( .

Thanks

Tony

Most likely yes.
The Sony Store and Sony Customer Service didn’t have any concrete info.
But the NS70H is gone now from Sony.ca and Futureshop websites and BestBuy and The Brick are selling them off so it looks like the new models are coming to Canada. Just the question is when?

Any Canadians with some more info?

Thanks,
Adam

Jeff... pardon my ignorance. Is a higher total better or worse?

Higher scores = better performance. Maximum possible score = 130. Since not all the players have noise reduction, those tests were not performed. So maximum possible score = 110.

Higher scores = better performance. Maximum possible score = 130. Since not all the players have noise reduction, those tests were not performed. So maximum possible score = 110.

I assumed as much but wanted to make sure. So it looks like the Panny wins across the board. Would these scores vary THAT much by display type? Have you ever done the Oppo ? if so, the scores? Thanks.

Check this thread for scores on other players. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=550103&page=1&pp=60&highlight=HQV

Remember to drop the scores for noise reduction.

EDIT: Looks like the first post has an Oppo at 75 - 10 for the noise reduction = 64. Pretty much right where I have the Panny DVD-S77S which has the same chip.

Check this thread for scores on other players. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=550103&page=1&pp=60&highlight=HQV

Remember to drop the scores for noise reduction.

EDIT: Looks like the first post has an Oppo at 75 - 10 for the noise reduction = 64. Pretty much right where I have the Panny DVD-S77S which has the same chip.

Interesting.. so one can conclude that the Panny S77S and the Oppo are basically equal and superior to the Sony NS75H?

Still think it should be noted that personal preference and opinions formed by each individual viewing these can change what is best. I mean some might not see the problems another person sees with a particular player. Like I hated my 841, but I have seen on this board others who seem to think it is the best.

Interesting.. so one can conclude that the Panny S77S and the Oppo are basically equal and superior to the Sony NS75H?

At deinterlacing, yes, but the Oppo and Panny (as do all Faroudja based players) suffer from macroblocking enhancement that can look terrible on some displays.

One note on deinterlacing... Film based material stored on DVDs usually deinterlaces just fine with even basic deinterlacers. The problems become evident when the material is video based (some TV series, etc.) or the film based material has had video based material added to it.

As I said, take the test for what they are. Obviously the eye of the beholder is going to be the final word.

Good info. I am just hoping that my new 75H "wakes up" when I hook it up via HDMI. With component cables so far, to be honest, I will just return the sony and keep using my 6 yr old (non progressive scan) player.....I can hardly tell a difference.

It could be my display, but with either player I still can't see the 4 shades of white on the first video test screen, it just looks like one large white box all the same shade.....
I was able to see the 4 shades of white on the THX Optimizer test screen using the HDMI output to a Sharp LCD. I didn't try component.

Re the Color Bar/Vertical Detail test on the HQV disc, can that score be affected by how well the display is calibrated to the player?

Based on what I've seen with the NS75H, the calibration settings would be different with 720p and 1080i than they would be at 480p. Since the test is testing hue and saturation, those settings would need to be adjusted correctly I'd think. Were separate settings used for the 720p/1080i and 480p tests?

Edit:
Re the HQV Flag test, I looked at waving flags on the DVE disc and in Saving Private Ryan and I didn't detect any problems with the NS75H at 720p. That's not to say someone else might not see jaggies there, but nothing stood out to me. I was looking at the pass/fail pictures for the Flag test in the HQV manual (http://www.siliconoptix.com/contentEngine/dspDocumentDownload.cfm?PCVID=6557af58-7e90-e2a3-bea3-f6ec25bf8781) - is it just me or does the section with the stars look better in the picture that fails? Especially the border between the blue section and the red/white stripes.

I spent some time last evening with the Sony DVP-NS75H. I put it through it's paces with the HQV Benchmark DVD version 1.4. I also retested the Sony DVP-NS70H and a Panasonic DVD-S77S (Faroudja based) as references. All players were hooked up to a JVC HD56G786 D-ILA 720p native display via HDMI. The players were set as follows.
.....


Hey thanks for the "real" comparison.... I should get the HQV... My subjective view did choose Oppo PQ over NS75H but not as substantially as your tests.

A question on picture detail and jaggies test etc, are these performed on a paused frame or is the test on material that is playing. The reason I asked is that I noticed that the Jaggies and Detail on the 75H were very poor on paused frames but much better when playing... example if there was a big red ball in the screen it was very jaggy when I paused, but when I played at normal or super slow even if the ball wasn't moving the jaggies were not present... Just looking to become a "smarter".
I have an "Expirement" on this if you would care to replicate...

personally I think this is a great player until the new Oppo version of 971 comes out with HDMI and hopefully better audio. The bottom line is it has a great picture no macroblocking and very good audio (which has been a complaint with OPPO). I won't be watching the benchmark test when I am watching a movie and if I miss the tiny spec that OPPO picks up I will be just fine till OPPO fixes some issues which I am sure they will but right now I want great sound AND great picture and I have it with this in the interim.

Most likely yes.
The Sony Store and Sony Customer Service didn’t have any concrete info.
But the NS70H is gone now from Sony.ca and Futureshop websites and BestBuy and The Brick are selling them off so it looks like the new models are coming to Canada. Just the question is when?

Any Canadians with some more info?

Thanks,
Adam

The NS70H is still on the FutureShop website.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?logon=&langid=EN&catid=24136

I calibrated using DVE with the setting on Standard. My RCA DLP has a setting for black level.

Should I use Cinema 1 and calibrate again?

Black Level: On

Why did you test with Black Level On? The default is off, correct?

Why did you test with Black Level On? The default is off, correct?
If you're using HDMI, the Black Level settings have no effect.

Re the Color Bar/Vertical Detail test on the HQV disc, can that score be affected by how well the display is calibrated to the player?

Based on what I've seen with the NS75H, the calibration settings would be different with 720p and 1080i than they would be at 480p. Since the test is testing hue and saturation, those settings would need to be adjusted correctly I'd think. Were separate settings used for the 720p/1080i and 480p tests?

Edit:
Re the HQV Flag test, I looked at waving flags on the DVE disc and in Saving Private Ryan and I didn't detect any problems with the NS75H at 720p. That's not to say someone else might not see jaggies there, but nothing stood out to me. I was looking at the pass/fail pictures for the Flag test in the HQV manual (http://www.siliconoptix.com/contentEngine/dspDocumentDownload.cfm?PCVID=6557af58-7e90-e2a3-bea3-f6ec25bf8781) - is it just me or does the section with the stars look better in the picture that fails? Especially the border between the blue section and the red/white stripes.

The color bar area looks very much the same between all the players I've tested. I look at that area of the test pattern but I stick to area #1 for scoring. Color settings would not affect this.

No I did not calibrate all players at all resolutions. Panny and 70H were calibrated at for 720p. This should not affect the outcome of the tests.

I was unsure about the flag test as well until I seen it on the Panny. As the flag waves a large ripple goes up the middle of the flag. Every player I've tested to date shows bad jaggies along the edge of the ripple (some more than others) except the Panny. It does a great job of demonstrating how it should look.

Hey thanks for the "real" comparison.... I should get the HQV... My subjective view did choose Oppo PQ over NS75H but not as substantially as your tests.

A question on picture detail and jaggies test etc, are these performed on a paused frame or is the test on material that is playing. The reason I asked is that I noticed that the Jaggies and Detail on the 75H were very poor on paused frames but much better when playing... example if there was a big red ball in the screen it was very jaggy when I paused, but when I played at normal or super slow even if the ball wasn't moving the jaggies were not present... Just looking to become a "smarter".
I have an "Expirement" on this if you would care to replicate...

You're welcome. You should get the disc. It's very informative. I'm not sure how much value it will have in a year or so but what the heck. It might still be able to test next gen DVD (HD) players if they play DVDs as well.

Jaggies tests are done with video in motion. Freezing the frame would not be an adequate test of deinterlacing. Nor would it be representative of what most people use DVD players for.

Why did you test with Black Level On? The default is off, correct?

This will not affect the outcome of the tests and I probably should have excluded that information. Not sure why I have it set the way I do. I matched the 70Hs settings for the 75H.

How about results for a front projection setup?
I have a Panny PT-L500U and wonder if it is worth stepping up to a upscaling player.
Would the macroblocking be more evident on a projector setup?

The color bar area looks very much the same between all the players I've tested. I look at that area of the test pattern but I stick to area #1 for scoring. Color settings would not affect this.
Can you (or anyone that knows) elaborate why color settings would not affect the Color Bar/Vertical detail test if at least part of the test is testing hue and saturation which can be adjusted?

personally I think this is a great player until the new Oppo version of 971 comes out with HDMI and hopefully better audio. The bottom line is it has a great picture no macroblocking and very good audio (which has been a complaint with OPPO). I won't be watching the benchmark test when I am watching a movie and if I miss the tiny spec that OPPO picks up I will be just fine till OPPO fixes some issues which I am sure they will but right now I want great sound AND great picture and I have it with this in the interim.
artimp... Can you expand a bit on your sound eval, I am intrested in your thoughts. I did notice/read that the Sony's audio specs were better than the Oppo, and I thought I could hear some differences but isn't it pretty much Digital to Digital to the AVR and then the AVR processing/DACs from there? What are you hearing or knowing? just curious...

I honestly just thought it had more detail better sound-- just my ears talking 35 year old ears but nevertheless that's just what I came away thinking plus the Oppo had occasional audio drop- has happened to me in movies and it is reported on oppo thread. Never once has that been a talked about issue with several people for the Sony 70 and this is same but fixed version with a few more things added.

Can you (or anyone that knows) elaborate why color settings would not affect the Color Bar/Vertical detail test if at least part of the test is testing hue and saturation which can be adjusted?

I didn't evaluate the pattern for color because in my opinion hue and saturation have zero bearing on deinterlacing. The color being off is not going to cause the pattern to flicker or the bars to merge together. Perhaps if it was very far off the patten might be hard to interpret, but I don't belive that any of the players were so far off at any resolution to affect the test one way or another.

I'm assuming you saw some flicker on the test pattern and that's why the NS75H got a 5 on that test? That test seems to test both deinterlacing (the vertical detail portion of the test) and proper color settings according to the manual. Here's what the manual states:

"The color bar pattern will show if the color hue and saturation controls are set properly and provide a means to evaluate the vertical resolution of the device."

I would think there must be some interplay between the two on their test since they paired them together, but maybe not. The hue on the NS75H can be changed or it could be changed on the display. It would be interesting to see if changing the hue and/or saturation to extreme values can get the test to completely fail.

Any ideas how the new Pioneer 696 will compare?
I'm curious too... so I've decided to wait... until it has been released to make a decision... Whats a few more months??

Just watched King Kong on my 60 inch SXRD and it was just incredible. My previous player was a DCDi equiped Zenith DVB318 and I always had macroblocking problems with that player in dark scenes upconverting to 1080i thru component. The NS75H using HDMI set at 1080i is a very noticable improvement, no macroblocking at all and very nice blacks. The picture is definitely better than the Zenith. This player will tide me over until the true HiDef players come down in price.

A previous SXRD owner said he had small black bars on the sides and had to set overscan to +1 :confused: . Do you have your SXRD set to normal (no overscan)? Are you seeing any shift or other problems on the SXRD? I bought the "70" and returned it because of the shift problem on my SXRD. Been reading here to make sure there are no problems with the "75" on a 60" SXRD..
Thanks, Gerry

For anyone having hooked this up to an SXRD. What settings are you using on the 75? What about the TV?

Just note (I've had this player for one day) but when Ktulu_1 did his test he had sharpness to Off. I found setting it to 1 or 2 (I have 2) takes away some significant softness and adds a little more detail.

Does anyone know if the NS75H has the "chroma bug" present? I've read through this thread and haven't found info relating to it. My appologies if I missed it (this is my first post). Thanks,

Gar1138

I also had the sharpness to 1 and it looked great on the Panny 900 NO SOFTNESS.

I also had the sharpness to 1 and it looked great on the Panny 900 NO SOFTNESS.

FWIW, I too have the sharpness set to +1 (into Pio 1130).

LIY

Does anyone know if the NS75H has the "chroma bug" present? I've read through this thread and haven't found info relating to it. My appologies if I missed it (this is my first post). Thanks,

Gar1138

I'm not sure. But, if you can try out a copy of Toy Story - that's usually the best test.

I pretty much use my PIO 5060 for any settings really... maybe I will try sharpness of 1 to see if I notice anything better. :D

Got mine last night at BB. Still need an HDMI cable since I refused BBs kind offer to pay more or almost as much for cable as the player itself. Any of the more reasonably priced HDMI cables any good or recommended for this machine? Looks like I'll have to get it online since all the B&Ms only carry the sucker cables.

Get your cable from forum sponsor Monoprice. Their quality is great and their price is right.
the 6' or 10' cables will not cost you an arm and a leg and they are heavy with ferrite cores on each end. Don't let BB rip or CC rip you off on cables.

Thanks, rwestley. I was figuring that was the way to go but definitely wanted check with others first.

Get your cable from forum sponsor Monoprice. Their quality is great and their price is right.
the 6' or 10' cables will not cost you an arm and a leg and they are heavy with ferrite cores on each end. Don't let BB rip or CC rip you off on cables.

I agree. My monoprice order arrives Monday April 10th. Dont overpay for cables.

Get your cable from forum sponsor Monoprice. Their quality is great and their price is right.
the 6' or 10' cables will not cost you an arm and a leg and they are heavy with ferrite cores on each end. Don't let BB rip or CC rip you off on cables.

Speaking of Monoprice, *WHICH* HDMI cable do you guys recommend? Mind you, I have never used HDMI before, but I saw different AWG ratings as well as some of them describe having the ferrite cores while some do not. What does all this mean? I get the basic idea with the AWG (assuming it is the same concept as speaker cable), but what exactly are ferrite cores and what do they do?

I haven't picked up this player yet as I haven't even gotten around to pulling the trigger on my HDTV, but I do want to be ready as far as cables go when I do get the components...

PMJ

I'm assuming you saw some flicker on the test pattern and that's why the NS75H got a 5 on that test? That test seems to test both deinterlacing (the vertical detail portion of the test) and proper color settings according to the manual. Here's what the manual states:

"The color bar pattern will show if the color hue and saturation controls are set properly and provide a means to evaluate the vertical resolution of the device."

I would think there must be some interplay between the two on their test since they paired them together, but maybe not. The hue on the NS75H can be changed or it could be changed on the display. It would be interesting to see if changing the hue and/or saturation to extreme values can get the test to completely fail.

Jim, nope no flicker. At some resolutions the player was unable to resolve the individual lines on the pattern at area #1.

I would think so too but the test description contains information that is not included in the scoring section.

The test is to be scored as follows:

10 = Image detail is seen at marker "1", no flicker is observed
5 = Minor flickering is seen at marker "1"
0 = No image detail is seen at marker "1"

None of those options fit what the player was displaying. At some resolutions there is some image detail (not full detail) and no flickering. That leaves me with a choice between a score of 10 or 5. Giving it a 10 would not be indicative of what was being displayed. It gets a 5 because it was not fully resolving the detail at marker 1.

I do not believe that the color would effect this. At 480p which displayed no noticeable change in color the pattern was fully resolved and flicker free. When I get a chance I'll try and go back and review this by calibrating the color at each resolution.

Speaking of Monoprice, *WHICH* HDMI cable do you guys recommend? Mind you, I have never used HDMI before, but I saw different AWG ratings as well as some of them describe having the ferrite cores while some do not. What does all this mean? I get the basic idea with the AWG (assuming it is the same concept as speaker cable), but what exactly are ferrite cores and what do they do?

I haven't picked up this player yet as I haven't even gotten around to pulling the trigger on my HDTV, but I do want to be ready as far as cables go when I do get the components...

PMJ
Assuming you are not going 50ft or something, High-Quality 24AWG HDMI Cables they are pretty heavy duty and the cores are pretty big, they can be difficult to route throught tight spaces, I think are pretty new, I would have order those but I currently have, HDMI Cable male to male 28AWG - 10ft w/Ferrite Cores (Gold-Plated) and it seems to work fine, little smaller and easier to route. I was a bit leary because of how inexpensive they are, but the build quility seems very good. I have a brand new NEC PDP display, My PQ is very clear...

This is the one I got from them... not their lowest priced ones... but was what I needed... very good quality and feel to it... and like I have said before... picture looks great.

Monoprice HDMI (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2283&seq=1&format=2&style=)

Speaking of Monoprice, *WHICH* HDMI cable do you guys recommend?
I got a 6' 28AWG HDMI cable from Monoprice. Product ID: 2412. 'HDMI Cable male to male 28AWG - 6ft w/Ferrite Cores (Gold Plated)'. Works fine with the NS75H.

Isn't some flickering always noticable on the HQV pattern when the player is in an interlace mode (e.g.1080i)? I've never noticed this as a problem watching film-based DVDs which further makes me question many of these tests for film-based DVDs. Other than the resolution and detail tests, I'm not sure about the others.

Jim, nope no flicker. At some resolutions the player was unable to resolve the individual lines on the pattern at area #1.

I would think so too but the test description contains information that is not included in the scoring section.

The test is to be scored as follows:

10 = Image detail is seen at marker "1", no flicker is observed
5 = Minor flickering is seen at marker "1"
0 = No image detail is seen at marker "1"

None of those options fit what the player was displaying. At some resolutions there is some image detail (not full detail) and no flickering. That leaves me with a choice between a score of 10 or 5. Giving it a 10 would not be indicative of what was being displayed. It gets a 5 because it was not fully resolving the detail at marker 1.

I do not believe that the color would effect this. At 480p which displayed no noticeable change in color the pattern was fully resolved and flicker free. When I get a chance I'll try and go back and review this by calibrating the color at each resolution.
Jeff, Thanks for the additional info. It's my understanding that at 720p/1080i the HDTV colorspace will be used which is different than the NTSC colorspace which would be used at 480p. I definitely see a difference in colors between 480p and 720p/1080i with the NS75H.

I'll have to try and find a similar set of patterns on DVE tonight. I remember seeing a set of closely spaced vertical lines last night on DVE and they looked very good to me. But DVE is not HQV, so there could be other differences.

I just got this sony 75h yesterday for my 42 plasma....My actual wife actually was floored how much better it looked compared to my old JVC S500BK progressive player and denon players. I too was really impressed with both picture and sound (optical)! I never realized what I was missing out on till last night. LOTR and 5th Element never looked and sounded so good. I just bought this cause all to gear freaks have been pleased with it and I had 130 bucks to burn. Play's DL disc perfectly. Best purchase for my plasma.

***Monoprice is awesome...cheap, fast cheap shipping,great quality. I've ordered from them DVI-HDMI,Component, 2 Optical, 2 Digital Coax,ect...three time now and all the cables are top notch and all these cables cost me less than 40 bucks with shipping!...I'll always get my cables from them***

If you're using a long run, use 24awg. If you're using a short run, just buy the 28awg.

Monoprice is based in Rancho Cucamonga. I live in San Diego, so my cable came the next day with the cheapest shipping. They have really great service and products.

I'm not sure. But, if you can try out a copy of Toy Story - that's usually the best test.

Thanks for the reply. I don't have this player yet. I'm thinking of getting it and was just wondering if anyone that already has it could confirm if the "chroma bug" is present. Thanks,

gar1138

I just checked my tracking number.. it's scheduled to come tomorrow, but it's ahead of schedule and is out for delivery right now. I'll put up my impressions later on! I've gone without a dvd player for 2-3 months already.. it's been so long.

Monoprice is based in Rancho Cucamonga. I live in San Diego, so my cable came the next day with the cheapest shipping. They have really great service and products.
Interesting. It took USPS 3 days to get it to me in San Diego.

Thanks for the reply. I don't have this player yet. I'm thinking of getting it and was just wondering if anyone that already has it could confirm if the "chroma bug" is present. Thanks,

gar1138I'm not a CUE expert, so take this with a grain of salt. I looked at the menus on Toy Story last night to check for it and didn't see any problem. I used the pictures at the Secrets site as reference as to what the problem should look like and didn't see it. I was viewing on a 32" screen so maybe on a bigger screen it might be more noticeable if there is a problem.

Interesting. It took USPS 3 days to get it to me in San Diego.
I probably just get lucky then. I've only ordered from monoprice 3 or 4 times, and only once did the order take more than a day to arrive. That one order did come on the second day though.

I probably just get lucky then. I've only ordered from monoprice 3 or 4 times, and only once did the order take more than a day to arrive. That one order did come on the second day though.
I live in OC ... I have ordered several times (at least once in the afternoon) and always got them the next day... but I am a bad sample...I am less than 25 miles away :) But quality, ease, price, and speed ... Im In!

Zzen -- As far as I can tell the NS75 is silver and the NS85 is black and there are no other choices.

I did find some references to a black NS75, but when I looked at the specifications for it, the color was listed as “silver” :eek:.

I'm curious though, for the older versions, the NS70 has specs similar to the new NS75. The NS80 added both a 5 disk changer and SACD playback for the extra price. I can’t find any information on the NS85 on-line to find out if it has SACD playback also.
I was in a local store last night(P C Richard on long island), and they had just put on the floor about ten boxes of the NS85--all were silver. At my local BB a couple of days ago, all of the 85's were black, and all of the 75's were silver.

monoprice rocks.......got my cable on the east coast in 2 days. I will be hooking up HDMI tonight and will post comparisons to component cables which I have been using for the past few days (see my review a few pages back).

Can this Sony 75H be hacked?

If this can be a region free player, it would be a great alternative to the Oppo 971H.

I'm not a CUE expert, so take this with a grain of salt. I looked at the menus on Toy Story last night to check for it and didn't see any problem. I used the pictures at the Secrets site as reference as to what the problem should look like and didn't see it. I was viewing on a 32" screen so maybe on a bigger screen it might be more noticeable if there is a problem.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it!

gar1138

Anyone happen to open this bad boy up yet? I hear on the rumor mill that it is using a MTK chipset (rather than the proprietary chipset contained in the NS70 and NS90 series). Just wanted to confirm what decoding and scaling chipset the NS75H is using.

Man, I'm glad you guys are getting great results with this player. I feel left out. :( Anyone else tried the 75H with a CRT, did it produce a softer less detailed image compared to a 480i signal from a typical player. I'm probably going to return it in a couple of days, but want to be sure it's not my cabling or something.

BTW, the 5-Disc version model number is DVP-NC85H (with a 'C'), not DVP-NS85H--might come in handy when searching by model number.

Man, I'm glad you guys are getting great results with this player. I feel left out. :( Anyone else tried the 75H with a CRT, did it produce a softer less detailed image compared to a 480i signal from a typical player. I'm probably going to return it in a couple of days, but want to be sure it's not my cabling or something.I might be able to tell you later on today. Mine might be delivered a day early.

My actual wife actually was floored how much better it looked compared to my old JVC S500BK progressive player and denon players.

I guess, as opposed to your ficticious wife?? ;)

Sorry, I couldn't pass that one up.....

I deseved that 5150zx .... I get you yet:>

I bought one Sunday but had to return it today. Last night it just stopped playing DVD's. I tried about four different DVD's that work with my old player, and all I got was the word 'Cannot' in the player display.

Anyone else seen this? I like the look of the player but don't know if I should get another one or not.

Thanks,
Eric

BTW, the 5-Disc version model number is DVP-NC85H (with a 'C'), not DVP-NS85H--might come in handy when searching by model number.


I caught myself searching for a DVP-NS85H myself and getting no results. I finally figured out it was a C and placed my order. Now I just need to wait patiently ...


By the way, I wonder if "S" means "Single" and "C" means "Changer" in Sony-speak.

I hooked it up and played with it for the past 2 hours or so. I also have it hooked up via component cables so I could toggle between inputs to see the difference.

I played around with scenes from SPIDERMAN, Fifth ELEMENT SUPERBIT, INCREDIBLES

I must say there is not night and day difference between HDMI and component. I had to watch scenes over and over very carefully to see any differences. Here is what I found:

The HDMI looked the best on my set at 1080i (toshiba dlp 53hm95). The colors seemd more accurate using HDMI, and i did see very slight evidence of increased resolution when I sat about 4 feet away from the TV. At normal viewing distance I could not tell any difference.

My biggest complaint with HDMI is that it seems to also magnify the defects on the DVD as well. On some scenes the component setup looked much smoother. The HDMI had considerable noise in the background and you can see pixels kind of moving around and making the picture kind of shaky. (hard to explain) I also noticed in some dark scenes with HDMI the background looked like a dark jpeg picture that you try to lighten up. I don't know if this is called macroblocking, but it looks as if the background can't be displayed properly and has jagged lines all around it. If someone wants I can call out the exact movie scenes I am referring to.

So to summarize......HDMI was not a night and day difference over component. It did seem to sharpen up hte picture slightly and express more vibrant colors but the picture on average had much more "noise" associate with it. I would have to say the component hookup was definately smoother.

I am not sure if I am going to keep this player or not. I don't know if my expectations were too high or maybe there is a problem with my display. Maybe I just need to tweak some settings but honestly I don't know what else I can try.

My HDMI cable is the 14 dollar one from monoprice (3 feet in length, 24 gauge)

The problem is that HDMI will show the defects in a bad transfer. I still think it is the only way to go. Bill is your cable 6' or 3' I did not know the Monoprice carries a 3' cable. Their cables are great even the cheap ones.

I am having a problem now with this DVD player, was working great, than I went to turn it on today and all I get is snow, and HDMI light flickers on the DVD player. I am concerned because I returned my last Samsung upconverting DVD player because the HDMI signal would dropout while I was watching movies. this really seems like more of the same.

Both were connected with HDMI cable to philips 37" LCD flatpanel.

Any suggestions or anyone else experienceing this.

FEW MORE THINGS.....

1. There is a shift on the 75H! While there is no shift between selecting any of the modes in HDMI, the picture is thinner in any of the HDMI modes vs when viewing using component inputs. It is about 3/4" on top and bottom thinner in HDMI mode.

2. I am really liking the sound on this thing.....very strong.....my receiver is 10 units of volume lower than I used to run it and it sounds just as loud.

I did not know the Monoprice carries a 3' cable. Their cables are great even the cheap ones.
They definitely have 3' HDMI cables. I just ordered one for my dad today.

So I let the DVD player cool down and unplugged it from the wall, it had apparently been on all day yesterday. After a while I plugged it back in and there were no problems. I guess these DVD players may have some issue with overheating and HDMI signal.

by the way-- don't know if this was wrong but I had the mosquito noise reducer ON.

1. There is a shift on the 75H! While there is no shift between selecting any of the modes in HDMI, the picture is thinner in any of the HDMI modes vs when viewing using component inputs. It is about 3/4" on top and bottom thinner in HDMI mode.
If it's the same on the top and bottom, how is that a shift? Sounds more like you have a different amount of overscan on those inputs. I've looked at the test patterns in DVE that would show if the picture was being compressed (basically a circle should be round, not oval) and the pattern looks fine.

It's been a while since I checked, but I remember seeing different amounts of overscan for 480i and 480p on our plasma on the component input. It wouldn't surprise me if an HDMI input had a different amount than the component input on your TV.

I hooked up the 75h today. The picture is much more cleaner, much more crisp than my last dvd player (the cheap JSI JS4127). The audio is also much cleaner and crisp.

However, it looks kind of grainy in areas that are black, i.e. a black suit, black car, and so on. It may be due to the settings on my display, which I should probably reset. I set it back and forth between 720p and 1080i and couldn't really tell a difference between the two. I set sharpness at 1 and to cinema 1. I only watched Matrix Revolutions and Batman Begins.

I'll test it out much more later on and tomorrow.

Thanks JimSD, Monoprice indeed has 3'HDMI cables. I think they have even lowered the price on some of them. I have a few regular 6'cables and one 25' cable with ferrite cores and they work great.

I have no issues with shift and I have looked at both component and HDMI. I have a PIO 5060HD plasma though... so who knows.

I also have no graininess, etc. Maybe post all your settings here and we can have a look?

Mine has nice clear sharp picture... very nice.

And whoeverwas saying they had to turn their sound down... I too have had to tweak mine down as when I started using this player the sound was much better than the player I was using before apparently. I hear alot more details... especially from the rear surrounds.... more than once either myself or my GF turned to look... :D :D .

Overall, for what I paid... this player has been very worth it.

I've messed around with it again. I tweaked my tv settings and got the color to look a lot better, but there is nothing I can do about the graininess of the picture. That alone makes me disappointed. At this point, I can't even tell if the picture is more detailed or softer anymore. I have a 30" JVC AV-30W776 CRT.

I'm going to order some component cables next week and see if the sony looks better through component.

Note that I stated the graininess issue back on about page 3 of this thread.

I have only noticed it on one DVD - WOTW, especially in the sky during the storm scene.

I cannot adjust it out....

Can anyone else confirm/refute this? Maybe it is just this guys' tv (hopefully). If the 75 is squishing the picture over HDMI even if only slightly then that is ridiculous. Is a circle really an exact circle with this player over HDMI? Maybe someone with a fixed pixel display can test to rule out geometry errors of the TV. Thanks.

Perfect circle on mine over component to my DLP HDTV as well as over HDMI>DVI to my Sharp DT-300 projector. With as much attention as is being placed on the "squish" & "Shift" issue (because of the 70H) I'm inclined to believe it's an isolated event, otherwise there would be a ton more comments about it.

i just picked up my 75H last night at Best Buy. I have it hooked up to my Toshiba 52" DLP (52HM95) via HDMI cable.
looks pretty good.
it takes a long long time to load a disc sometimes though. but in LotR - FotR and it takes like 15-30 seconds to read it. works fine though after that.

i did have some questions about settings and what not.
I have the DVD Player set to 16:9. i find that this helps with getting rid of a good portion of teh black bars on wide screen DVDs. it usually doesnt get rid of all of them though but greatly reduces them thats for sure. sometimes it will totally get rid of them, but i notice that it also makes it so that i lose like maybe 1/2 inche or less of viewable area on the bottom and top of the screen. left and right is fine as far as i can tell.

is that normal?

I went thru all the settings and i believe i have everyting setup correctly.
i use to have an OLD OLD Sony DVD player i got like 6-7 years ago. it actually HAD a dolby digital/DTS decoder in it, i think it was the first model out or something. if that was set to 16:9 it also does the same thing. i just didnt know if there was a way to fix that.
i need to keep doing some comparisons on it. right now i have it on Cinema 2. most poeple here say they use cinema 1 so i may change to that. i dont have any of those testing programs or whatever you guys use.
Sound is working ok though. although i still have it set to 48 and not 96, what does that actually do?
im using the optical out to a receiver.
If there is anyone else here with a Toshiba model like mine, can you post your TV video settings you use for DVD playback? im still trying to tweak those too.
Thanks for any info...

Can anyone else confirm/refute this? Maybe it is just this guys' tv (hopefully). If the 75 is squishing the picture over HDMI even if only slightly then that is ridiculous. Is a circle really an exact circle with this player over HDMI? Maybe someone with a fixed pixel display can test to rule out geometry errors of the TV. Thanks.

Yeah, mine definately looks better through component unless it is a terrific transfer. The sony does a great job deinterlacing and scaling through HDMI but it has pretty crappy filters. You see every defect in the transfer including grainy backgrounds and noise. I guess that is the difference between this and the more expensive players. They have better filters. Through component the noise is still there but hardly noticeable because the picture is softer. I saw this in SPIDERMAN, SIN CITY, INCREDIBLES, and some frames of STAR WARS ATTACK OF THE CLONES. LOTR looks simply fantastic through HDMI.

I checked the overscan again with the THX OPTIMIZER and the HDMI picture is definately squished over component. Component = perfect circle, HDMI = oval, and yes I checked the picture mode I was in.
morrow373: Yeah, mine definately looks better through component unless it is a terrific transfer. The sony does a great job deinterlacing and scaling through HDMI but it has pretty crappy filters. You see every defect in the transfer including grainy backgrounds and noise. I guess that is the difference between this and the more expensive players. They have better filters. Through component the noise is still there but hardly noticeable because the picture is softer. I saw this in SPIDERMAN, SIN CITY, INCREDIBLES, and some frames of STAR WARS ATTACK OF THE CLONES. LOTR looks simply fantastic through HDMI.

I checked the overscan again with the THX OPTIMIZER and the HDMI picture is definately squished over component. Component = perfect circle, HDMI = oval, and yes I checked the picture mode I was in.

Bill97Z,
Does the THX Optomizer pattern you're using have circle for both 4:3 mode and 16:9 anamorphic mode? If it's just 4:3, possibly your display is showing a 4:3 picture with 480p over component, but stretching it in 720p/1080i since many sets only have one mode for HD signals and stretch it to fill the screen.

Things to try:
1. Make sure your DVD player is set to TV Type = 16:9
2. Experiment with the 4:3 Output setting on the DVD player.
3. Set the HDMI output to 480p as an experiment and see if you get the same results as component

Hopefully it's just a configuration issue.

JIM--->I am set to 16x9 on the dvd player. I didn't try it on 420p with the hdmi....I just did it using 720, 1080 via hdmi. There is definately an oval shape and I can see the picture is a bit thinner. I will try some other configurations tonight.

Todd, I have an hm95 DLP tv too. I am hooked into hdmi. Do you have component cables? If so for kicks hook it up that way too. You can play a movie and just select the different input to see the difference in picture. I wonder if you will have the same findings I have. What resolution looks best? 1080i for me.....

Definately use the 16x9 setting on the dvd player. The black bars are supposed to be there and are not that large. You can alternatively select theatrewide 1 picture setting to fill up the screen but you will lose some of the picture.

A few more comments.......

I don't like cinema 1. I found that the STANDARD setting results in the least amount of grainyness and filters out the noise the best. On cinema 1 using hdmi close ups of peoples faces almost make them look fake and plastic.....I think there is too much contrast.

Those other noise filters included in the player seem useless......I can't see any difference with them on or off.

I urge everyone that has tried hdmi to also try component, you might be surprised.......

If anyone has spider man.....try chapter 25 (i think)......the first 30 seconds of it (up to the explosion) have tons of noise and grains....the picture almost seems like it is flickering and shaking in the background on hdmi. Component offered a much smoother picture. I found the same thing in the last chapter. After peter hugs his buddy and his buddy walks away, look at peters face on his lower chin (left side), it flickers bad.

bill97z,

thanks for the info.
for me it seems that 1080i seems to look better with my setup. i belive i did notice too that standard helps with grainyness. its a give or take really, if you want more contrast and better blacks you will have to have more grainyness.

i will try with component cables as well. does this DVD player upconvert via the component? if not then it will use 480p via component correct?

bill97z,

thanks for the info.
for me it seems that 1080i seems to look better with my setup. i belive i did notice too that standard helps with grainyness. its a give or take really, if you want more contrast and better blacks you will have to have more grainyness.

i will try with component cables as well. does this DVD player upconvert via the component? if not then it will use 480p via component correct?

Yes the 75H will pass 420p or 420i via component.....just press the button on the player to toggle between the two. I can hardly notice any difference though.

JIM--->I am set to 16x9 on the dvd player. I didn't try it on 420p with the hdmi....I just did it using 720, 1080 via hdmi. There is definately an oval shape and I can see the picture is a bit thinner. I will try some other configurations tonight.

Todd, I have an hm95 DLP tv too. I am hooked into hdmi. Do you have component cables? If so for kicks hook it up that way too. You can play a movie and just select the different input to see the difference in picture. I wonder if you will have the same findings I have. What resolution looks best? 1080i for me.....

Definately use the 16x9 setting on the dvd player. The black bars are supposed to be there and are not that large. You can alternatively select theatrewide 1 picture setting to fill up the screen but you will lose some of the picture.

A few more comments.......

I don't like cinema 1. I found that the STANDARD setting results in the least amount of grainyness and filters out the noise the best. On cinema 1 using hdmi close ups of peoples faces almost make them look fake and plastic.....I think there is too much contrast.

Those other noise filters included in the player seem useless......I can't see any difference with them on or off.

I urge everyone that has tried hdmi to also try component, you might be surprised.......

If anyone has spider man.....try chapter 25 (i think)......the first 30 seconds of it (up to the explosion) have tons of noise and grains....the picture almost seems like it is flickering and shaking in the background on hdmi. Component offered a much smoother picture. I found the same thing in the last chapter. After peter hugs his buddy and his buddy walks away, look at peters face on his lower chin (left side), it flickers bad.
I noticed this with standard and cinema 1 also. Same with the filters. I'm very disappointed so far..

Quick set up question ---- Just getting ready to hook my NS85 ( 5-disc ) up to my 37" LCD. This set has HDMI so I can connect it straight to the DVD player. But what about the audio? Will the optical digital output from the LCD also carry the DVD audio in 5.1? Or will I need to optical out directily from the DVD to the receiver for 5.1? (in addition to the hdmi to the set) I will also check out the component hookups as people are saying there isn't much advantage to using the HDMI scenario. Comments please.

Quick set up question ---- Just getting ready to hook my NS85 ( 5-disc ) up to my 37" LCD. This set has HDMI so I can connect it straight to the DVD player. But what about the audio? Will the optical digital output from the LCD also carry the DVD audio in 5.1? Or will I need to optical out directily from the DVD to the receiver for 5.1? (in addition to the hdmi to the set) I will also check out the component hookups as people are saying there isn't much advantage to using the HDMI scenario. Comments please.

Hook your optical cable from the dvd player to your receiver and it will pass sound. HDMI will also pass sound to your tv speakers to turn them off or turn down the tv volume.

Bill, Which disc are you getting the THX Optomizer from? We have several that have it and I can check tonight which type of pattern it has. Newer DVDs have a different set of patterns than some of the older ones.

Do you remember if when looking at the circle pattern if the TV had black bars on the left and right with either 480p or 720p/1080i?

My set, a HP LC3700N has detachable speaker so I'm not going to even install them ( it will not fit in my cabinet with the speaker attached ). But with HDMI also carrying audio to the tv, and there will already be an optical audio out to the receiver for cable / antenna reception, do I also need to make the direct DVD to receiver optical audio connection as well?? I have an extra cable so that is not an issue, just trying to understand the flow of electrons or photons as may be the case.

Quick set up question ---- Just getting ready to hook my NS85 ( 5-disc ) up to my 37" LCD. This set has HDMI so I can connect it straight to the DVD player. But what about the audio? Will the optical digital output from the LCD also carry the DVD audio in 5.1? Or will I need to optical out directily from the DVD to the receiver for 5.1? (in addition to the hdmi to the set) I will also check out the component hookups as people are saying there isn't much advantage to using the HDMI scenario. Comments please.

yeah i just hooked my optical cable from the DVD to my reciever. then i just went to the audio properties of the TV and turned the speakers off. so no sound would come accross the HDMI.

My set, a HP LC3700N has detachable speaker so I'm not going to even install them ( it will not fit in my cabinet with the speaker attached ). But with HDMI also carrying audio to the tv, and there will already be an optical audio out to the receiver for cable / antenna reception, do I also need to make the direct DVD to receiver optical audio connection as well?? I have an extra cable so that is not an issue, just trying to understand the flow of electrons or photons as may be the case.

ive heard that when people use HDMI to send sound to the TV and then use the Audio OUT of the TV to the Reciever IN, it sometimes, on a lot of tv sets, loses 5.1 funcionality. so they recommend hooking the audio straight from the DVD player to the Receiver using either the optical out or coaxial out. depending on what you can use.

I've been reading the forum, but unless I've missed it, I haven't seen any tests using the 75H with a Front Projection System. Anyone tried this baby on a Projector? What are your thoughts? I currently have a cheap Denon prog scan player fed with component. Would love to know what to expect on a projector with the HDMI outputs unpconverting to my native rate of 720P on the PJ

I've been reading the forum, but unless I've missed it, I haven't seen any tests using the 75H with a Front Projection System. Anyone tried this baby on a Projector? What are your thoughts? I currently have a cheap Denon prog scan player fed with component. Would love to know what to expect on a projector with the HDMI outputs unpconverting to my native rate of 720P on the PJ

Yeah, you missed a few ;) I have this hooked to both my DLP tv (component) and my Sharp DT-300 projector (HDMI>DVI) and the picture at 720P is stellar. King Kong is lifesize on my 92" screen!

Bill, Which disc are you getting the THX Optomizer from? We have several that have it and I can check tonight which type of pattern it has. Newer DVDs have a different set of patterns than some of the older ones.

Do you remember if when looking at the circle pattern if the TV had black bars on the left and right with either 480p or 720p/1080i?

I have several as well. I checked with STARWARS attack of the clones DVD. I don't remember any bars but i will check. Remember, not only does the circle become an oval, but I can physically see the letterbox shrink when using hdmi.

I can do it with my TV viewing settings. When I select "natural" it defaults to 2:35:1 that the dvd player puts out. Since this aspect ratio is slimmer than a 16:9 TV screen, there are black bars on the top and bottom. If I select other viewing modes (widescreen 1,2,etc) I can fill the entire screen either by stretching the picture vertically or filling the entire verticle screen at the expense of cutting off a few inches off each side.

A question for all here.
Is this player capable of doing a vertical stretch (in other words *not* ZOOMing) in the 720p mode over HDMI as hinted at above?

I would like a player for an anamorphic/Constant Height setup and very few players allow for aspect control on the HDMI transport.

ted

I bought the NS75H today from the local BB at the regular price.
I'll hook it up this evening using HDMI with my Vizio plasma.
This had better be a great DVD player or you're all in trouble. ;)

I had pre-ordered the new SLV-D570H (DVD/VCR combo) from C'Field, but it's arrival has already been delayed twice: was March, then April, now May.
When Sony announced this new combo at the Vegas line show, they said it would be first available in July. :confused:

Bill97z - I have a strong feeling the reason you are seeing HDMI circle squished is not because of the player. I think the THX optimizer is actually a 4:3 signal so when sending it over component at 480i/p it shows properly, but when you sent it over HDMI at 720/1080 that forces the TV into "full/stretch/HD" mode which will then stretch the 4:3 pic out making it thinner and a circle becomes an oval. Maybe try HMDI with 480p and see what happens. Also what TV pic mode/size are you using in each case. Is your TV a Toshiba?

I could be wrong but just trying to clear this up as you're the only one mentioning this so far.

As an aside the 'grain/noise' that you and a few others has mentioned sounds unfortunate. Hard to choose a player!

Thanks.

Yeah, you missed a few ;) I have this hooked to both my DLP tv (component) and my Sharp DT-300 projector (HDMI>DVI) and the picture at 720P is stellar. King Kong is lifesize on my 92" screen!


I originally read that upconverting DVD players look best on Projectors because the bigger the screen, the easier you can see the better resolution.

Thanks for the comment. Not sure how I missed your original post.

Bill97z - I have a strong feeling the reason you are seeing HDMI circle squished is not because of the player. I think the THX optimizer is actually a 4:3 signal so when sending it over component at 480i/p it shows properly, but when you sent it over HDMI at 720/1080 that forces the TV into "full/stretch/HD" mode which will then stretch the 4:3 pic out making it thinner and a circle becomes an oval. Maybe try HMDI with 480p and see what happens. Also what TV pic mode/size are you using in each case. Is your TV a Toshiba?

I could be wrong but just trying to clear this up as you're the only one mentioning this so far.

As an aside the 'grain/noise' that you and a few others has mentioned sounds unfortunate. Hard to choose a player!

Thanks.

I will experiment tonight, but like i said, the letter box is definately thinner in hdmi mode.

Also very please with this unit through a Optoma H78, with the Sony set to output 720P and the Optoma set to display native resolution image. I think the Sony's image has more "pop" than the Oppo, which I think I'm going to sell now.



I've been reading the forum, but unless I've missed it, I haven't seen any tests using the 75H with a Front Projection System. Anyone tried this baby on a Projector? What are your thoughts? I currently have a cheap Denon prog scan player fed with component. Would love to know what to expect on a projector with the HDMI outputs unpconverting to my native rate of 720P on the PJ

I will experiment tonight, but like i said, the letter box is definately thinner in hdmi mode.

On my PIO 1130, its a perfect circle (when setting the screen mode to 4:3).

LIY

If i buy this player to use component output, should i buy the ns55 instead? Will i have the same quality for less money?

If i buy this player to use component output, should i buy the ns55 instead? Will i have the same quality for less money?

I would think so. But the ns75 has the HDMI input tho.

Tried a few things......

The THX optimizer has two screens with the circle test.....one for 4:3 and one for 16:9. On the second screen i get the perfect circle with component and hdmi.

But.......I am getting some overscan / shift. With hdmi, the bottom of the letterboxed picture is in the same spot but the top is about 3/4" lower. I am definately getting a shift and thinner picture with hdmi vs component.

is this true, I have the new panasonic plasma th-42px60u (native resolution 768). TV is amazing. I set the 75H to 480 resolution under the HDMI section and it looks alot better and clearer than setting it to 720 or 1080i. Should I be doing this. Anyone else who has a native resolution of 768 please comment. What should I set the player too?

Bill, Glad to see you solved one issue. Since the aspect ratio is correct on the 16:9 circle test it seems like you probably just have an different amount of overscan on the HDMI input than you do the component since no one else has seen that. The centering of the image also sounds different. I know my plasma is not centered on the component input - that's why what you're seeing doesn't seem unusual to me. Note: I don't have the NS75H on the plasma, so that's not why it's not centered. In fact, when I was in the service menu of our plasma I saw the overscan and centering were different for 480i and 480p - both on the same component input. So settings like that can definitely vary.

I guess to really verify why it's different you'd have to check with a different brand of player. If it exhibited the same thing via HDMI then you know it's the TV; otherwise I guess it would be the interaction of your TV and the NS75H.

JIM--->If anyone has spider man.....try chapter 25 (i think)......the first 30 seconds of it (up to the explosion) have tons of noise and grains....the picture almost seems like it is flickering and shaking in the background on hdmi. Component offered a much smoother picture. I found the same thing in the last chapter. After peter hugs his buddy and his buddy walks away, look at peters face on his lower chin (left side), it flickers bad.

Bill,

Did you try 480p on HDMI vs. component?

Is everyone finding component better than HDMI? That would be terrible since component doesn't upconvert.

I've fed both component and HDMI to my Projector and HDMI puts out a much cleaner, sparklier (?) picture. Component wasn't bad, HDMI is just better.

I'm having trouble with the 85. It won't upconvert!

I have a westy lvm-37w1 and using hdmi it won't upconvert. It will stay at 480p.

I had a 70H before and it didn't give me this trouble. When I try to upconvert and chose the resolution, no matter what resolution I chose it acts likes its switching resolution on the tv (tv screen goes off and on), but the westy system info says its receiving a 720x480 signal the whole time.

My SA8300HD receiver works fine with hdmi, and the westy reports the correct resolutions 1280 x 720 and 1920 x 540 being displayed.

I wonder if any other people are really upconverting with their 85 or if I have a bad unit.


Can anyone confirm what signal their panels are getting from the 85??

i connect this dvd player to my 4805 projector. i also bought a cheap upconvert dvd player from sears to compare. to my surprise the cheaper player produce better picture. sonys picture was washout and noisy(like tv that has weak signal). i didnt calibrate the cheap player and did the quick set up for sony. hopefully after doing some more tweaking with the sony it will meet my expectation. im so impress with the sound of the sony though. its like night and day compared to the other player. i would like to hear from people how they setup their ns75h specially if they use it with IF4805 projector. thanks.

I'm wondering if its the unit or some sort of problem between the w1 and the new sony models. I don't want to exchange this for a 75 and have the same trouble

any 85 owners out there have any experience with their upconverting features? Have you noticed a big difference when upconverting or are you not sure if the signal is actually changing? Can you verify what signal your panel is receiving to confirm its not receiving 480p after select 720p or 1080i from the sony player?

Is this true, I have the new panasonic plasma th-42px60u (native resolution 768). TV is amazing. I set the 75H to 480 resolution under the HDMI section and it looks alot better and clearer than setting it to 720 or 1080i. Should I be doing this. Anyone else who has a native resolution of 768 please comment. What should I set the player too?

I'm wondering if its the unit or some sort of problem between the w1 and the new sony models. I don't want to exchange this for a 75 and have the same trouble

any 85 owners out there have any experience with their upconverting features? Have you noticed a big difference when upconverting or are you not sure if the signal is actually changing? Can you verify what signal your panel is receiving to confirm its not receiving 480p after select 720p or 1080i from the sony player?
I have the 85 and have no problem with the player upconverting to 720p or 1080i via hdmi (my tv displays in the upper right corner what resolution it is receiving). You may have a faulty player. I would exchange it.

Guess this means that 480i is not selectable via HDMI?

/steve

Who cares? If you are connecting to an HDTV, why would you wanna run anything in 480i? :confused:

Who cares? If you are connecting to an HDTV, why would you wanna run anything in 480i? :confused:

Because many of us prefer to use external scalers and/or image processors, and we want the most unprocessed and error-free data the DVD player can provide to feed them. After an SDI port modification, 480i via HDMI is the second best way to achieve this.

/steve

Who cares? If you are connecting to an HDTV, why would you wanna run anything in 480i? :confused:

Outboard scaling. 480i is essentially the raw data from the DVD.

ted

I'm wondering if its the unit or some sort of problem between the w1 and the new sony models. I don't want to exchange this for a 75 and have the same trouble

any 85 owners out there have any experience with their upconverting features? Have you noticed a big difference when upconverting or are you not sure if the signal is actually changing? Can you verify what signal your panel is receiving to confirm its not receiving 480p after select 720p or 1080i from the sony player?

hidefloans,

I'm having the same issue with the 85 and a Westinghouse 32W1! No matter what the player is set at, the tv states it's receiving 480p. Switching between the three, I can't tell the slightest difference in the image.

About six months ago, I tried the 70H and had the same problem. I tried many other upconverting players and did not have this issue. I just didn't care for the image as much.

I also have a quarter inch gap between the image and the right side of the screen. With the 70H, there were gaps below and to the left. I chalked this up to being the image shift problem. The other players filled the screen.

:confused:

It seems like an issue with the Westinghouse set. HDCP handsakes can be difficult. You might want to wait until the new Oppo player comes out or try the new 52 Panasonic with a MSP price of only $99.

Outboard scaling. 480i is essentially the raw data from the DVD.

ted

Yeah, I get that, but I have always heard that you want the source doing the converting whenever possible. Apparently there are different schools of thought on this, but the way it was explained to me, you ALWAYS want the DVD player doing the upconverting, or whatever source the image is coming from.

Sharpness +1 seemed to give a sharper picture, but isn't it just adding data that isn't in the source?

Based on what others have been saying I tried Sharpness set to +1. I used the test pattern for sharpness in Digital Video Essentials. I honestly didn't see any difference whether sharpness was set to Off, +1, or +2. I could see a difference if I adjusted the sharpness on my TV. I just leave it at Off. As for some of the other settings, the BNR and MNR settings only seem to negatively affect the picture IMO.

I was watching Spiderman last night and Sharpness set to +1 gave a sharper picture.

Yeah, I get that, but I have always heard that you want the source doing the converting whenever possible. Apparently there are different schools of thought on this, but the way it was explained to me, you ALWAYS want the DVD player doing the upconverting, or whatever source the image is coming from.


You heard wrong. You want the processing to be done by the chips,scaler,etc. that does the best job. If you have a 3-5k television such as the Pioneer Elite plasma, what do you think is going to do a better job the Pioneer or the $150.00 dollar DVD player?

You heard wrong. You want the processing to be done by the chips,scaler,etc. that does the best job. If you have a 3-5k television such as the Pioneer Elite plasma, what do you think is going to do a better job the Pioneer or the $150.00 dollar DVD player?

You can't base it on the cost of the display neccesarily. I have a projector with a $4,200 MSRP and the $129 Sony scales much better. You're right, it's all in the chip & scaler. It's in this regard that the Sony excels.

warning possible stupid question.....
Do we know if the NS75H is putting out full 12 bit over YCbCr HDMI or less?

Yeah, I get that, but I have always heard that you want the source doing the converting whenever possible. Apparently there are different schools of thought on this, but the way it was explained to me, you ALWAYS want the DVD player doing the upconverting, or whatever source the image is coming from.

Here comes my caveman AV nOOb take on it...

I think - and somebody will correct me if I am wrong - is that for the display given by the original poster, a Panny PDP, the signal will have to scaled regardless of whether is input signal is 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p or whatever (except for native resolution of the PDP.)

The Panny 42PX60 scales to 1280 x 768. So the question becomes would you rather scale twice or once? With PDPs, feeding 480i from the DVD and letting the scaler in the monitor do the scaling cuts down on the guesswork inherent in scaling.

I had an opportunity to play with the changer 85 version of this player that a friend purchased at a great price. He needed a changer with HDMI that did not produce macroblocking. I tried it in my house with HDMI through a Monoprice switcher comparing the Oppo I own to the Sony. I set up the Sony using DVE and the Get Grey disk. I also tried the THX optomizer. The brightness had to be increased to +1 to pass blacker than black. I also discovered that the auto setting sent out 1080i to my Panasonic AE900 even though it is a 720p projector. I used the manual settings to set it to 720p and turned on the mosquito noise reduction. ( did notice some noise in the picture and turning it on reduced it slightly.

I have not run all the tests disks on it because the friend took it home. I did a quick A B test with the Oppo 971 and I still feel the Oppo produces a better picture with less noise. (I don't have the macroblocking problem) The Sony picture was good and it is nice to see a changer model at a low price. I tried several DVD's that I burned on the unit and they all worked, even DL disks. If you can get one for a good price and you need a changer and have macroblocking issues you might want to consider this unit.

JimSD, just for you... actually I was starting to wonder myself, I ran the Color Bar/Vertical Detail test again on this player. While I didn't calibrate the player for color at each resolution I did play with the hue and saturation to see if I could get the results to change on the pattern at "marker 1". No change. I completely desaturated the color, taking color completely out of the mix, and ran the test at each resolution again. The results at "marker 1" was unchanged and as such the score remains unmodified.

Based on what others have been saying I tried Sharpness set to +1. I used the test pattern for sharpness in Digital Video Essentials. I honestly didn't see any difference whether sharpness was set to Off, +1, or +2. I could see a difference if I adjusted the sharpness on my TV. I just leave it at Off. As for some of the other settings, the BNR and MNR settings only seem to negatively affect the picture IMO.

I read this post before I hooked the player up again and decided to look into the sharpness while I had the chance. Using the "sharpness" pattern on Avia I found the players sharpness settings added a considerable amount of "edge enhancement." For those unfamiliar with edge enhancement there is a great guide at http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm

The sharpness pattern on the Avia disc is great at showing edge enhancement. White ringing can be seen around the black lines and contrasts well with the gray background.

As I said the player adds a considerable amount of EE. So technically it should appear to sharpen the picture. Personally, I find anything that tries to make the picture "better" by adding artifacts unacceptable. Of course, others may have a different opinion and that's ok.

I also found the noise reduction settings to not reduce noise and make the picture worse in some instances. I checked this with the HQV disc when I tested the player the first time but its a totally subjective opinion.

As I said the player adds a considerable amount of EE. So technically it should appear to sharpen the picture. Personally, I find anything that tries to make the picture "better" by adding artifacts unacceptable. Of course, others may have a different opinion and that's ok.

I assume you mean some of the DVD player's tweaks you can do add EE, not literally the player itself.

Yep. Sorry if that was unclear. Sharpness 1 adds some EE and sharpness 2 adds even more.

Here comes my caveman AV nOOb take on it...

I think - and somebody will correct me if I am wrong - is that for the display given by the original poster, a Panny PDP, the signal will have to scaled regardless of whether is input signal is 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p or whatever (except for native resolution of the PDP.)

The Panny 42PX60 scales to 1280 x 768. So the question becomes would you rather scale twice or once? With PDPs, feeding 480i from the DVD and letting the scaler in the monitor do the scaling cuts down on the guesswork inherent in scaling.
There's more than scaling involved, you also have de-interlacing. The video material on DVDs is digitally recorded 480i (720 x 480, interlaced) signal. The Panny PDP is also a fixed pixel digital display. The only way (except for hacked, or SDI modded, DVD players) to get 480i material from a DVD player is over the analog component outputs. This means that the DVD player has to convert the digital information to analog (1 D/A conversion). Then the PDP display has to reconvert the signal back to digital (A/D conversion) for scaling to whatever you want (4:3 = 1024 x 768, or 16:9 = 1280 x 720, not 1280 x 768).

To avoid 2 digital/analog conversions (which adds extra errors and artifacts), you really want to keep the signal in the digital domain, which means sending the video from the DVD player to the display via the HDMI (or DVI) connection. This means using the 480p, 720p, or 1080i formats with the DVD player doing at least the de-interlacing from 480i to 480p (no scaling).

The question now becomes how to get the best picture on the display. This will depend on how good the scaling in the display is compared to the DVD player. The best thing to do is to try all combinations and see which one looks the best.

The bottom line is that you want to use at least the 480p output via the HDMI/DVI connection to avoid any digital to analog conversions.

Jeff (Ktulu_1), Thanks for making the extra effort in checking on the vertical detail test.

Well, I have been quite thrilled with the performance of my NS75 - HDMI into a Pio 1130 (Screen Mode: Full). Discs including MOnsters, Inc., Toy Story, War of the Worlds, etc. have look quite stunning - great detail and depth upconverting to 720p.

But....
Now that I examine 2.35:1 anamorphic films more closely, it does appear that the Sony is foreshortening the height of the letter box -this compared to a Panasonic RP-91 and S35 through component into a Pio 5060 (Screen Mode: Full).

Would be most interested on any comments in this regard!

Would be a real shame if this were true - and a universal constant of this player; as coupled with the inability to remove the zoom icon when in zoom mode, you really are missing the "big Screen" part of "big screen" tv. :(

LIY

According to Pg 68 of the manual for the DVP-NS75H,

*DOLBY DIGITAL
NOTE
"If the HDMI OUT jack is connnected to equipment not compatible with Dolby Digital signals, the "D-PCM" signals will be automatically outupt even when you select "Dolby Digital"

This causes the Dolby Digital audio to be downmixed to 2 channels only

*DTS
NOTE
"if the HDMI OUT Jack is connnected to equipment not compaitible with DTS signals, the "OFF" signals will be automatically output when you select "ON"


I contacted Sony support and was told that if you attempt to connect the DVD player via HDMI directly to the tv and connect the dvd player via Digital Optical the best sound you will get out of the player would be 2.1 audio. He said the only way to get 5.1 and a picture is to connect the player via Component Video and Digital Optical. This setup would not allow me to upconvert.

I want to be able to use the upconverting features of the DVD player (only avail via HDMI) but I want to be able to send the sound to my AV receiver.

Here is my question

1. Is there anyway to connect this DVD player via HDMI for the picture and Digital Optical for the audio without it automatically converting the Dolby Digital (96kHz/24bit) 5.1 signal to PCM (48 kHz/16 bit) 2.1 audio. Can anyone confirm that if you are connecting the DVD players via HDMI and optical to a receiver, you will only get PCM (48kHz/16bit PCM) 2.1.


Sorry for the Noob question I have been away from the whole AV scene for awhile

How does this compare to the new Panasonic S52? The Panny comes with an HDMI cable and retails for slightly less. How do these 2 compare in sound and picture quality? Also, this Sony doesn't come in black does it?

According to Pg 68 of the manual for the DVP-NS75H,

*DOLBY DIGITAL
NOTE
"If the HDMI OUT jack is connnected to equipment not compatible with Dolby Digital signals, the "D-PCM" signals will be automatically outupt even when you select "Dolby Digital"

This causes the Dolby Digital audio to be downmixed to 2 channels only

*DTS
NOTE
"if the HDMI OUT Jack is connnected to equipment not compaitible with DTS signals, the "OFF" signals will be automatically output when you select "ON"


I contacted Sony support and was told that if you attempt to connect the DVD player via HDMI directly to the tv and connect the dvd player via Digital Optical the best sound you will get out of the player would be 2.1 audio. He said the only way to get 5.1 and a picture is to connect the player via Component Video and Digital Optical. This setup would not allow me to upconvert.

I want to be able to use the upconverting features of the DVD player (only avail via HDMI) but I want to be able to send the sound to my AV receiver.

Here is my question

1. Is there anyway to connect this DVD player via HDMI for the picture and Digital Optical for the audio without it automatically converting the Dolby Digital (96kHz/24bit) 5.1 signal to PCM (48 kHz/16 bit) 2.1 audio. Can anyone confirm that if you are connecting the DVD players via HDMI and optical to a receiver, you will only get PCM (48kHz/16bit PCM) 2.1.


Sorry for the Noob question I have been away from the whole AV scene for awhile

woah I didn't know that. If this is true, I won't be getting this player b/c my TV only has DVI so I was going to have to convert the HDMI to DVI and run a seperate fiber optic cable for sound.

Anybody know if the Panny S52 is the same way?

could owners of the DVP-NS75H confirm?

could owners of the DVP-NS75H confirm?

Absolutely, positively false (at least in my case). I have the video hooked up to my Sharp DT-300 projector via HDMI>DVI cable and have the sound hooked up via coax digital cable to my receiver and have stunning sound. I turned the DTS and DD on and also kicked it up to 96Khz. I've watched several movies and my Sony AV receiver faithfully reports DTS 6.1 (Rush Hour 2) as well as DD 5.1 on all the others (Fifth Element, King Kong). Perhaps the HDMI>DVI is the key since it strips the sound from the HDMI connection? I've not run it HDMI>HDMI so the book 'could' be true.

I just hooked up my 85 ( changer ) in my HT. I am using the HDMI out directly to the TV ( LCD ) and then running an audio optical out from the TV into the receiver for sound. My TV will pass 5.1 from the optical out to the receiver. I don't have all my speakers hooked up yet ( in a few days ), but I believe I will in fact be getting 5.1 audio. There are no "direct" connections from the DVD to the receiver.

Question about the HDMI on the back of the DVD--Is anyone else finding in very hard to seat the cable into the player back? I'm firmly pressing it into the socket and its not going in all the way to the seat. Am I just not pressing hard enough? I just don't want to screw up the HDMI jack.

Good info. I am just hoping that my new 75H "wakes up" when I hook it up via HDMI. With component cables so far, to be honest, I will just return the sony and keep using my 6 yr old (non progressive scan) player.....I can hardly tell a difference.

Have to agree completely. I just hooked up the HDMI cable and I see no difference between it and the component hookup. Further, I see no difference between the 75H and my 6 year old panny non-progressive player.

Maybe I haven't correctly set it up yet or upconversion is myth.

I'm only up to page 11 of this thread so far, maybe I missed something.

I'll keep trying to tweak. Probably should take it back and get one at half the price but I won't give up yet.

According to Pg 68 of the manual for the DVP-NS75H,

*DOLBY DIGITAL
NOTE
"If the HDMI OUT jack is connnected to equipment not compatible with Dolby Digital signals, the "D-PCM" signals will be automatically outupt even when you select "Dolby Digital"

This causes the Dolby Digital audio to be downmixed to 2 channels only

*DTS
NOTE
"if the HDMI OUT Jack is connnected to equipment not compaitible with DTS signals, the "OFF" signals will be automatically output when you select "ON"


I contacted Sony support and was told that if you attempt to connect the DVD player via HDMI directly to the tv and connect the dvd player via Digital Optical the best sound you will get out of the player would be 2.1 audio. He said the only way to get 5.1 and a picture is to connect the player via Component Video and Digital Optical. This setup would not allow me to upconvert.

I want to be able to use the upconverting features of the DVD player (only avail via HDMI) but I want to be able to send the sound to my AV receiver.

Here is my question

1. Is there anyway to connect this DVD player via HDMI for the picture and Digital Optical for the audio without it automatically converting the Dolby Digital (96kHz/24bit) 5.1 signal to PCM (48 kHz/16 bit) 2.1 audio. Can anyone confirm that if you are connecting the DVD players via HDMI and optical to a receiver, you will only get PCM (48kHz/16bit PCM) 2.1.


Sorry for the Noob question I have been away from the whole AV scene for awhile


Can someone that is running HDMI to the TV and Optical to a AV receiver confirm??

Can someone that is running HDMI to the TV and Optical to a AV receiver confirm??

On the Sony all outputs are live all the time. I've run my sound via optical and coax while running HDMI out to my PJ and they both work fine.

Have to agree completely. I just hooked up the HDMI cable and I see no difference between it and the component hookup. Further, I see no difference between the 75H and my 6 year old panny non-progressive player.

Maybe I haven't correctly set it up yet or upconversion is myth.

I'm only up to page 11 of this thread so far, maybe I missed something.

I'll keep trying to tweak. Probably should take it back and get one at half the price but I won't give up yet.

I just came back from the Video Only Store in San Mateo, and the sales person was nice enough to let me test out the new Sony DVP-NS75H on the JVC LT-40FH96, which I own, and I have to say, I was not impressed, nor I saw the WOW factor from this DVD player. I tested out, Batman Begins and Polar Express and it seemed the colors were a little bit more vivid and that's about it. My DVB-318 is as good or even better then the Sony.

I guess, I'll have too wait on the new HD-DVD players to come out and wait for users input, before spending the money.

Just my two cents,
Randy

Can anyone tell me if they've had trouble seating the HDMI cable into the back of the 75 or 85? Mine doesn't click into place with firm pressure.

On the Sony all outputs are live all the time. I've run my sound via optical and coax while running HDMI out to my PJ and they both work fine.


I understand that they outputs will work, BUT will they output 5.1? Running HDMI for video but only getting 2.1 sound out of the Optical cable to the AV receiver is not acceptable to me.

I need someone to confirm

HDMI to TV
Optical to AV receiver
5.1 output NOT 2.1 as Sony claims in their manual and live chat tech support

Don't take this the wrong way, guys. I'm still only on page 11, but I get the distinct impression that you fellas don't watch anything but test discs. I trust my eyes. I don't need (and I know this is blasphemy to some hereon) a disc to tell me what's right for MY eyes. Admittedly, I have run through the THX thingie on one of the animated movies I have just for grins (and basically I made no changes from what I had set by eye--I did make changes, but no way could you tell by looking at a dvd). I get the feeling a lot of us have lost sight of the purpose of these devices--entertainment. Unless, you consider test discs entertainment. :eek: I don't begrudge anyone the right to tweak and tweak and tweak, though. I guess I am basically a set it and forget kind of person. I want to enjoy the thing, not make it a second career.

Anyway, I hope you won't run me out of town for saying my piece.

If I can figure out whether this player is actually upconverting, I'll let y'all know.

I understand that they outputs will work, BUT will they output 5.1? Running HDMI for video but only getting 2.1 sound out of the Optical cable to the AV receiver is not acceptable to me.

I need someone to confirm

HDMI to TV
Optical to AV receiver
5.1 output NOT 2.1 as Sony claims in their manual and live chat tech support

My receiver reports 5.1

I bought this player a few days ago from BB. I have it connected to a Vizio P50 PDP via HDMI and I'm also using the coax audio output (Dobly Digital) from the DVD player to my A/V receiver, and all it's working fine and delivering superb 5.1 audio. My HDMI cables do not click into place in the slots on my DVD player nor the back of the HDTV, and it is a known weakness in the design of the HDMI connector. There is some talk of improving the strength and design of this connector in the future.

My initial impressions of the NS75 are consistent with mypepper's comments: it works OK, but no WOW factor at any resolution setting I've tried using HDMI. Using component is not an option in my case, due to the wiring conduit limitations (it's packed) in my home entertainment center. In fact, I'm using this upconverting player just so that I can benefit from the relatively small mass size of an HDMI cable compared to using component plus audio cables. Perhaps I would find more WOW in the PQ if I were to use component, but theoretically HDMI should be a little better...so I've heard. This player is producing a clear, jitter-free image, but I believe the DVD PQ was much better on my old Sony 36" XBR CRT with a simple JVC DVD player outputting over S-Video. Incidentally, I've used/swapped this monoprice HDMI cable for both DVD and HD video (cable box), and the HD PQ is fabulous, so the HDMI cable is fine.

Can anyone tell me if they've had trouble seating the HDMI cable into the back of the 75 or 85? Mine doesn't click into place with firm pressure.

No trouble. Got my monoprice cable today and he slid right in. The HDMI is lit up on the 75H so it should be working correctly per the manual.

Thanks for the replies. My HDMI signals are fine to the TV, but it seems awful flimsy in the back of the DVD player. :(

My receiver reports 5.1

Mine too, 5.1 & 6.1. Audio confirmed.

Whoever designed the HDMI interface should have realized that there could be problems. It is not Sony's fault. There has been talk of improving the interface but nothing has come of it. The DVI interface was much better.

Just got done watching X-Men 2 via hdmi to my PDP-5060HD and coax to my reciever and can confirm DTS 5.1 is being sent to the reciever.

Well... since my last player was a sammy 841, I am thrilled much more with this player than it. The blacks are better to me... darker scenes have more clarity (a known problem on the sammy), and i have to say audio is much better... not that I know why, but it is... especially from the rear surrounds. Considering it is a $129 player, what are you guys expecting?

And I use the test disk as a start.... I calibrate to it, then eye ball it to what my GF and I think looks best. The test disk in my mind is a starting point.

I don't understand how DVD players can vary in sound. If connected via a fiber optic, or coax cable, listening to DD 5.1 or DTS sound, shouldn't all DVD players put out the same sound to your receiver?

I've read several people say this Sony outputs great quality sound. How are you guys determining this? I'm torn as to whether get this player, or the new Panny S52. Will both units give me identical sound, or will this Sony output better quality sound? I listen to primarly concert DVDs, DVD movies, and Xbox 360.

I've had the NS70H since December and have lived with the shifting issue. Movies looked stunning on my Samsung DLP in 720p regardless of the shifting. I contacted Sony months ago and sked about the shift. In response, I have the option of returning the DVD player to Sony for a full refund, even though they don't admit there is a problem with all machines, only perhaps mine. I was waiting to do this until a better DVD player would show up at BB or CC. So I am going to buy the NS75H tommorow from Best Buy and test them both out side by side. I'll let you all know my impressions and perhaps I return the NS70H back to Sony and keep the NS75H. It's a shame the 2X zoom issue wasn't fixed. I'll clearly be able to see if the upgrade is worth it.

Can someone that is running HDMI to the TV and Optical to a AV receiver confirm??

I am running HDMI to my tv.......sound comes out of my tv speakers.... I also run an optical from my DVD player to my receiver....I turn the TV speakers down and use the receiver for DTS and 5.1

Don't take this the wrong way, guys. I'm still only on page 11, but I get the distinct impression that you fellas don't watch anything but test discs. I trust my eyes. I don't need (and I know this is blasphemy to some hereon) a disc to tell me what's right for MY eyes. Admittedly, I have run through the THX thingie on one of the animated movies I have just for grins (and basically I made no changes from what I had set by eye--I did make changes, but no way could you tell by looking at a dvd). I get the feeling a lot of us have lost sight of the purpose of these devices--entertainment. Unless, you consider test discs entertainment. :eek: I don't begrudge anyone the right to tweak and tweak and tweak, though. I guess I am basically a set it and forget kind of person. I want to enjoy the thing, not make it a second career.

Anyway, I hope you won't run me out of town for saying my piece.

If I can figure out whether this player is actually upconverting, I'll let y'all know.

Your TV should display the type of signal it is receiving to confirm....

Your TV should display the type of signal it is receiving to confirm....

I am going through the manual to see if it will. I have a Panny RPTV (relatively new). When I hit info, I don't get a display resolution on the DVD, VCR or STB inputs--it does show it on the Off-Air channels.

Well, I watched about 4 movies this weekend and really played around with my new 75H. So far I experimented with THE INCREDIBLES, STAR WARS - ATTACK OF THE CLONES, STAR WARS - RETURN OF THE SITH, XMEN, XMEN 2, 5TH ELEMENT - SUPERBIT, PREDATOR, FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, SIN CITY, and SPIDERMAN.

It is still very difficult to see any night/day difference in picture with this player and my 6 yr old non progressive scan toshiba player (which already had a great picture). Perhaps I was expecting too much. If I had to make a statement I would say that the black levels are definately enhanced and the colors are a bit more vivid. I don't see much difference in picture using component connections and hdmi at normal viewing distance. On some disks I can see an increased resolution via HDMI but on some disks it almost looks "too sharp." Some peoples faces look like they have too much contrast and look plasticy at close viewing distances. Also with HDMI more background noise is present since the component connection offers a softer picture. Note that these differences are only really noticed when viewing my 53" toshiba DLP from about 3 feet away. Normal viewing distance (11-12') all this goes away and the picture looks smooth and detailed with minimal noise.

That said I really played around with settings and found that the picture looks best when set at 1080i. I am still getting some overscan on the top of my picture (letterbox about 3/4" thinner) vs component, but I think it is my display as others have not noticed this. I don't like the cinema 1 setting that most of you are using. STANDARD setting looks the best to me....it darkens the picture and improves black levels, and tends to hide any noise and artifacts better. The other filters seem useless, even the sharpness settings, I can not see a difference. I like to pause a clear frame on the dvd and then toggle between settings and see how that frame changes. I have mostly been tweaking using that method of comparing still frames, and then watching a 10 second or so sequence repeatedly.

The audio is definately an improvement probably because the player operates at a higher bitrate than my old toshiba. The signal is definately stronger and I run my receiver at a lower volume that usual. The clarity is impressive as well as the separation. The surrounds really come alive more than ever.

All that said I am keeping this player. It is a bargain at 130 bucks and I think it is worth it for the audio alone. The picture isn't a night and day difference, but it is definately no worse than what I had and at least I get to keep up with technoloy using HDMI, and upscaling,etc,etc. I think as I play with it even more and watch more movies I will find the settings that please me the best. I can't say this for sure but so far they seem to vary from disk to disk.

A few last thoughts.....

This player seems to do an excellent job deinterlacing and scaling,etc. If I had to describe it in a few words I would say it is a "what you see is what you get" player. It basically displays accurately what is encoded on the dvds. I have seen artifacts and noise that I never saw before via hdmi but I am convinced that these things are present on the film transfer to DVD and that is why I am seeing them. Component connections offers a softer picture so these things are harder to see in that mode. And remember....most dvds have horrible transfers to begin with. Only a small % of movies out there have really great transfers and with an HD display and HDMI you really see the difference. I guess the weakness of this player could be it's lack of filters. If it had some filtering capability it could maybe enhance a poor transfer dvd into something that looks much better. For the record I don't know of any other players out there that can do this very good, and I don't see SD players getting much better as most of the development now will be for the HD formats. I would hate to say this, but I am starting to see that these HD displays are too good to watch SD DVD's. I definately recommend this player at it's price point. It will definately hold you over for a few yrs until you bite the bullet and get an HD player!

I am running HDMI to my tv.......sound comes out of my tv speakers.... I also run an optical from my DVD player to my receiver....I turn the TV speakers down and use the receiver for DTS and 5.1

I have the same set up. However, volume throught the HDMI on my TV is about fifty percent of the other inputs.

At the receiver, it sounds good so I assume the digital stuff is coming through the way it should. Haven't figured out how to get the Onkyo HTS 780 to tell me what it is receiving. It does recognize different input as it switches back and forth some times on the display.

As with picture quality, I am trusting my senses.

I have the same set up. However, volume throught the HDMI on my TV is about fifty percent of the other inputs.

At the receiver, it sounds good so I assume the digital stuff is coming through the way it should. Haven't figured out how to get the Onkyo HTS 780 to tell me what it is receiving. It does recognize different input as it switches back and forth some times on the display.

As with picture quality, I am trusting my senses.

I agree the digital input volume is much lower than when using RCA cables......

...All that said I am keeping this player. It is a bargain at 130 bucks and I think it is worth it for the audio alone. The picture isn't a night and day difference, but it is definately no worse than what I had and at least I get to keep up with technoloy using HDMI, and upscaling,etc,etc. I think as I play with it even more and watch more movies I will find the settings that please me the best. I can't say this for sure but so far they seem to vary from disk to disk.

Are we really keeping up with technology if the player shows no noticeable improvement over a non-progressive 6 year-old player?

I bought mine on the promise of "near HD quality." The picture looks good, but if the Sony is upscaling, so was my 6+ year-old Panny player.

Maybe I have missed it, but I have yet to see a post where anyone is reporting "near HD quality."

Don't get me wrong. I like the player well enough. But, it hasn't beat my old one yet. :rolleyes:

Are we really keeping up with technology if the player shows no noticeable improvement over a non-progressive 6 year-old player?

I bought mine on the promise of "near HD quality." The picture looks good, but if the Sony is upscaling, so was my 6+ year-old Panny player.

Maybe I have missed it, but I have yet to see a post where anyone is reporting "near HD quality."

Don't get me wrong. I like the player well enough. But, it hasn't beat my old one yet. :rolleyes:

I have not seen an HD quality to compare it to yet......

I don't understand how DVD players can vary in sound. If connected via a fiber optic, or coax cable, listening to DD 5.1 or DTS sound, shouldn't all DVD players put out the same sound to your receiver?

I've read several people say this Sony outputs great quality sound. How are you guys determining this? I'm torn as to whether get this player, or the new Panny S52. Will both units give me identical sound, or will this Sony output better quality sound? I listen to primarly concert DVDs, DVD movies, and Xbox 360.
Bill just said the sound was a big improvement over his older Toshiba DVD player. How is this? How can I tell what newer DVD players put out the best sound?

After some testing and comparison on the NC85H, I found for my panny ED plasma that I preferred the 480i component connection over the HDMI. (Tried all types of picture adjustments on DVD player and TV). Bottom line is I found the HDMI upconversion to be too grainy. Too bad HDMI does not pass 480i as I would have liked the 1 HDMI connector instead of running the 3 component cables. Evidently my TV does a pretty good conversion of the 480i signal.

I needed another DVD player anyway (and 5 disc changer a bonus), so will keep.

JCPZero

Just to update. I have confirmed that my TV is reporting 1080i through the 75H over HDMI. However, there's no difference between PQ of HDMI and component.

Now, when toggling between component and HDMI, I noticed for the first time that there is SIGnificant shift over the component. Like half as much black at the top as at the bottom. Hadn't noticed when watching over component PRIOR to hooking up HDMI. Of course, maybe it's just the DVD I'm watching which is Last Samurai.

Just thought those using component only may want to know. I may still be doing something wrong though so I'll put it through some paces and see.

I think those with large screen projector setups will notice the biggest difference with upscaling players. I have compared this player with the Oppo 971 which produces a better picture for me on my Panasonic AE900. I hooked up a friend's Sony to compare. He needed a changer the 85 model. On another note the Sony does pass 5x1 or 6x1 through coax and toslink along with HDMI. The person from Sony was all wet. It is not unusual that they give out wrong information. That is why I love the Oppo support. No wrong information.

Just to update. I have confirmed that my TV is reporting 1080i through the 75H over HDMI. However, there's no difference between PQ of HDMI and component.

Now, when toggling between component and HDMI, I noticed for the first time that there is SIGnificant shift over the component. Like half as much black at the top as at the bottom. Hadn't noticed when watching over component PRIOR to hooking up HDMI. Of course, maybe it's just the DVD I'm watching which is Last Samurai.

Just thought those using component only may want to know. I may still be doing something wrong though so I'll put it through some paces and see.

FYI - Many displays will have different degrees of overscan depending on input. Your's may be one of them.

FYI - Many displays will have different degrees of overscan depending on input. Your's may be one of them.

Thanks. Something must be up because I know I watched a movie via component prior to hooking up the HDMI and the 2.35:1 picture was centered. I must have altered something somewhere.

Thanks. Something must be up because I know I watched a movie via component prior to hooking up the HDMI and the 2.35:1 picture was centered. I must have altered something somewhere.


Mine does the same thing with HDMI.....I see the same exact picture though (nothing is cut off) but there is about 3/4" more black space at the top of my 53" DLP.

As for those experimenting with component vs hdmi......compare a few clear frames paused.....sit about 3-4 feet from the TV........you can definately see more detail. I agree though, that normal viewing distance there isn't much of a difference. That being said, I have been using HDMI for a few more movies today and I don't know if it's growing on me or what, but especially on gladiator, it does look better!

The other filters seem useless, even the sharpness settings, I can not see a difference.

Strange. Sharpness makes a big difference on my DLP

Are we really keeping up with technology if the player shows no noticeable improvement over a non-progressive 6 year-old player?

I bought mine on the promise of "near HD quality." The picture looks good, but if the Sony is upscaling, so was my 6+ year-old Panny player.

Maybe I have missed it, but I have yet to see a post where anyone is reporting "near HD quality."

Don't get me wrong. I like the player well enough. But, it hasn't beat my old one yet. :rolleyes:


My goodness. It's a $129 player. I have an eight year old non-progressive player that has 50x the build quality, but I wouldn't dream of hooking it up to my current set because I know it can't compete. There are lots of comments and critiques here with very little mention of the displays they are matched with. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this player did not make a noticeable difference with many of your sets. But for me it does.

On my 50" SXRD, the Sony upconvert players (the 70, the 90 and now the 75) were all a minor improvement via HDMi versus the two year old Toshiba progressive (via component) they replaced (the shift issue with the previous players caused me to keep investigating the alternatives). The differences were subtle but not night and day when doing back and forth comparisons. But in living with the players viewing actual material (the shift is solved for me with the 75), the Sony upconverts have often left a smile on my face that I did not get before.

I'm not trying to say it's HD because it's not. But on a good source, it's pretty darn competitive. I've got little kids and too busy a life to audition stuff all evening long. But some of the recent things I've viewed (such as "Walk the Line" or a few LOST episodes from last season) actually looked better overall to me than the Masters coverage on CBS the last couple days. Killer HD broadcasts trump it for sure, but I am very satisfied watching my TV with an upconvert player. If this weren't the case, I would have returned it (the tv, not the player) and waited for more broadcast material.

I've been auditioning a couple of DVD players in my home theatre one of which is Sony's new NS85H. My display is a Sony Ruby projector - 1080p SXRD onto a 110" screen. I've been looking for a high quality DVD to tide me over until the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players make it out. After doing some research I settled in on the Denon 2910. I found a great deal on a Denon 3910 with a liberal return policy and decided to go ahead and audition both of these. Given the price tags of these in the $600 to $1000 range I was also interested in how these might compare to a new generation Sony so I picked up the NS85H 5 disk carousel.

To make a long story short I find the Denon 3910 to have superior video quality to the 2910. Not sure why because I thought the video chips in these were the same. In comparing the 3910 against the Sony I find the Denon to have a very slight edge in picture quality but its ever so slight that the $1000 difference in price just doesn't seem to justify the more expensive player. I did a lot of A/B comparisons of the Eagles Farewell 1 concert. I chose this disk for my testing because I ended up with two DVD's that I can play in each player. There are a lot of dark scenes so it's good for testing contrast and black levels. The Denon seems to have a slight edge in overall contrast and the blacks just seem a little deeper than the Sony. The one issue however I've noticed with the Denon is floating black. This is where there's almost a shimmer of black a shade lighter than black underneath. I've noticed this on Nemo and in some of the Eagles scenes. The other area where I noticed the Denon had a slight edge was where you had vertical or horizontal stripe black patterns that had movement. On the Sony the edges of the black would appear to blur and shimmer as the pattern moved whereas the Denon had more well defined edges and didn't blur as the Sony did. I probably wouldn't have noticed this in normal movie watching if it wasn't for me repeating a loop 20 times.

Last night I watched the Star Wars Empire Strikes back on the Sony. Wow!!! I can see what you guys mean by a really good DVD transfer. I was amazed at how this looked on my large screen. It almost appeared to be in HD, at least the quality I've seen on Cinemax's HD movie channel. The sound of Dolby EX was spectacular. On the Eagles DVD I also could not detect any discernable difference between the DTS 5.1 sound of the Denon 3910 and the Sony. I really did expect to since these are both digital bit streams being read off the player and decoded in my processor.

While the Sony isn't the build quality of the Denon it's a keeper and well worth the $150 I paid!

I just bought the NS75H today and hooked it up to my Samsung HLR5087W 720p set. I had the NS70H since November and have been using it hapilly with the shift issue since movies still looked great.

My first impression is that the shift issue is 100% fixed, and the image is actually brighter on the new DVD after switching to cinema 2 than the same setting was with the NS70H. This could also be because the laser itself has been over-used but there is a noticeable difference with brightness and color between the two.

I am very pleased with this upconversion and as stated above, the quality with standard DVD upconverted can be better than Over the Air HD broadcasts in some cases. The Masters on CBS didn't look good when it was live, however the shots taken of the scenery and of Hogan's Bridge looked noticeably better than the rest of the footage. Now to get back to this DVD player... The NS75H has a few improvements over the NS70H as mentioned in a few posts earlier. The instruction manual is clearly better and explains a lot more than before. I am going to hold off buying any HDDVD or BlueRay until prices of players and discs drop considerably. Till then, I can still play HD thru my PC if need be.

Anyone who has the NS70H will be very happy with the imrovements Sony has made and can be assured this player does not have the shift issue on any setting. And again, the picture quality is outstanding and brighter when compared to my seven month old NS70H which is going to be returned to Sony :)

I just bought the NS75H today and hooked it up to my Samsung HLR5087W 720p set. I had the NS70H since November and have been using it hapilly with the shift issue since movies still looked great.

My first impression is that the shift issue is 100% fixed, and the image is actually brighter on the new DVD after switching to cinema 2 than the same setting was with the NS70H. This could also be because the laser itself has been over-used but there is a noticeable difference with brightness and color between the two.

I am very pleased with this upconversion and as stated above, the quality with standard DVD upconverted can be better than Over the Air HD broadcasts in some cases. The Masters on CBS didn't look good when it was live, however the shots taken of the scenery and of Hogan's Bridge looked noticeably better than the rest of the footage. Now to get back to this DVD player... The NS75H has a few improvements over the NS70H as mentioned in a few posts earlier. The instruction manual is clearly better and explains a lot more than before. I am going to hold off buying any HDDVD or BlueRay until prices of players and discs drop considerably. Till then, I can still play HD thru my PC if need be.

Anyone who has the NS70H will be very happy with the imrovements Sony has made and can be assured this player does not have the shift issue on any setting. And again, the picture quality is outstanding and brighter when compared to my seven month old NS70H which is going to be returned to Sony :)

Do you find you like the Cinema 2 setting over the Dynamic 2 setting? I like a bright juicy picture and I've gone back and forth between those two settings. Standard is just too standard, kinda lifeless and Cinema 1 produced a grainyish (is that a word?) picture with the dark scenes. Dynamic 2 and Cinema 2 are both simply delicious with D2 popping the colors just a bit more. I'm running mine HDMI 720P to my projector. Pride & Prejudice looked great tonight!

I agree with you on the NS70/NS75 comparisons. I too had a 70 and the 75 is a marked improvement.

chall87 -- Thanks for your review. I really appreciate your comparison of the new Sony's (75H/85H) vs. the Denons (2910/3910) on your Ruby (and 110" screen). I have a PJ too (106" screen, but no Ruby :( ), and was debating between the S97 and the 971H, now the 75H. The 75H's price difference means I can buy more DVDs :D.

Do you find you like the Cinema 2 setting over the Dynamic 2 setting? I like a bright juicy picture and I've gone back and forth between those two settings. Standard is just too standard, kinda lifeless and Cinema 1 produced a grainyish (is that a word?) picture with the dark scenes. Dynamic 2 and Cinema 2 are both simply delicious with D2 popping the colors just a bit more. I'm running mine HDMI 720P to my projector. Pride & Prejudice looked great tonight!

I agree with you on the NS70/NS75 comparisons. I too had a 70 and the 75 is a marked improvement.

I assume that you guys are running a calibration utility, like a Avia or VE, after you change these settings from Standard to Cinema? If not, I don't see how you can really do a valid comparison. Clearly, Cinema1 or Cinema 2 boost color (considerably) and brightness (somewhat). Unless you balance these, per Avia or VE, you can't really compare. Can you? :confused:

Note: I continue to use Standard into my Pio, as I am looking for a neutral picture (i.e., I want to see what's recorded on the disk). If necessary, I can always goose up the settings with my tv's remote!

LIY

It is still very difficult to see any night/day difference in picture with this player and my 6 yr old non progressive scan toshiba player (which already had a great picture).

Bill, this might be because the scaler/deinterlacer in your TV is of similar quality as the unit in the 75H.

Dumb question here....how do you let your TV be the scaler/deinterlacer rather than your DVD player...and vice versa??

I've been auditioning a couple of DVD players in my home theatre one of which is Sony's new NS85H. My display is a Sony Ruby projector - 1080p SXRD onto a 110" screen. I've been looking for a high quality DVD to tide me over until the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players make it out. After doing some research I settled in on the Denon 2910. I found a great deal on a Denon 3910 with a liberal return policy and decided to go ahead and audition both of these. Given the price tags of these in the $600 to $1000 range I was also interested in how these might compare to a new generation Sony so I picked up the NS85H 5 disk carousel.

To make a long story short I find the Denon 3910 to have superior video quality to the 2910. Not sure why because I thought the video chips in these were the same. In comparing the 3910 against the Sony I find the Denon to have a very slight edge in picture quality but its ever so slight that the $1000 difference in price just doesn't seem to justify the more expensive player. I did a lot of A/B comparisons of the Eagles Farewell 1 concert. I chose this disk for my testing because I ended up with two DVD's that I can play in each player. There are a lot of dark scenes so it's good for testing contrast and black levels. The Denon seems to have a slight edge in overall contrast and the blacks just seem a little deeper than the Sony. The one issue however I've noticed with the Denon is floating black. This is where there's almost a shimmer of black a shade lighter than black underneath. I've noticed this on Nemo and in some of the Eagles scenes. The other area where I noticed the Denon had a slight edge was where you had vertical or horizontal stripe black patterns that had movement. On the Sony the edges of the black would appear to blur and shimmer as the pattern moved whereas the Denon had more well defined edges and didn't blur as the Sony did. I probably wouldn't have noticed this in normal movie watching if it wasn't for me repeating a loop 20 times.

Last night I watched the Star Wars Empire Strikes back on the Sony. Wow!!! I can see what you guys mean by a really good DVD transfer. I was amazed at how this looked on my large screen. It almost appeared to be in HD, at least the quality I've seen on Cinemax's HD movie channel. The sound of Dolby EX was spectacular. On the Eagles DVD I also could not detect any discernable difference between the DTS 5.1 sound of the Denon 3910 and the Sony. I really did expect to since these are both digital bit streams being read off the player and decoded in my processor.

While the Sony isn't the build quality of the Denon it's a keeper and well worth the $150 I paid!

Hi Chall,

Very interesting post. I do believe the 3910 has an add video feature (called "pixel..." something). Also, I would assume the 3910 has better power/circuitry which would give the video quality a further edge. Your comparison of the Denon 2910/3910 reminds me of the recent comparison I did of the Sony 3100ES and 9100ES. While both of these players share the same deinterlacer and HDMI transmitter, the 9100ES does have an edge in video quality most likely due to the vastly superior power supply and circuitry of the 9100ES (as it weighs twice as much as the 3100ES).

Regarding the video quality of the Denon 3910 - I was able to compare it to the Sony 9100ES on my display (Sony KP-57WS520). I spent several hours doing A/B comparisons and the Sony definitely has better color rendition, black levels, and contrast than the Denon. I would suspect the Denon would excel on deinterlacing tests (such as HQV or Kris Deering's tests), however, for film-based and "real life" viewing, I would suspect the deinterlacing of the 3910 and 9100ES would be very close.

I find your observations and comparisons regarding the 75 very interesting. I once tested the 70 long before I tried out the Denon and Sony ES models (and before my display was professionally calibrated) and was impressed. I opted to stick with my Panasonic XP-30 at the time. All in all, I think Sony has really made BIG improvements in their recent DVD players at all price points.

I hooked up the 85 changer this weekend and so far I don't see a lot of difference between HDMI or component out to the TV. They are both hooked up and I can switch back and forth between the two. I have also confirmed they the DVD player is upconverting to 480p, 720p, or 1080i -- whichever I select from the menu. I have a digital cable running from the player to the receiver input and I have confirmed 5.1 and DTS--sounds great!! For the main sound on the TV I have an optical out from the TV to the receiver and my TV will output ( per the manual ) 5.1 over the optical. However when I select the HDMI input ( dvd player ) on the TV the receiver displays 48 PCM and only goes to 2.1 when I have the TV selected on the receiver ( sony ). Anyone have an answer to this? Why is it not passing 5.1 from the dvd to the TV and then on to the receiver? I am trying to use only the TV remote for watching DVDs instead of using the receiver remote also. While watching DVDs via HDMI, I can select the DVD player on the receiver ( digital coax ) and I will regain the 5.1 and DTS so its not a huge deal. Just hoping that one of you fellas has run across this already and could shed some light.

I still think the HDMI socket / cable connection is crappy. My HDMI cable out of this DVD player is very sloppy and seems like it will pop out at any time. The signal connection is good however since the HDMI light is on and the movies look fine. Any help on the above questions will be appreciated.

Do you find you like the Cinema 2 setting over the Dynamic 2 setting? I like a bright juicy picture and I've gone back and forth between those two settings. Standard is just too standard, kinda lifeless and Cinema 1 produced a grainyish (is that a word?) picture with the dark scenes. Dynamic 2 and Cinema 2 are both simply delicious with D2 popping the colors just a bit more. I'm running mine HDMI 720P to my projector. Pride & Prejudice looked great tonight!

I agree with you on the NS70/NS75 comparisons. I too had a 70 and the 75 is a marked improvement.

I like cinema 2 better than the rest on my TV. I like the colors to be vibrant also however I haven't played with the settings that much since I really liked the way cinema 2 looked over the rest on my initial test run of movies. I am tempted to create my own manual settings but at the moment I'll leave it alone. My only gripe about both of these players is still the 2x icon not fading out during zoom playback. Luckily, the need for me to zoom in on anything is about 5% of my DVD collection :) which are the first non-anamorphic bunch.

One question to all of you here. What sounds settings would be best with using the HDMI cable only to the TV and playing out of my TV's speakers?

Be careful of possible white crushing or not passing BTB with Dynamic or Cinema settings.

Be careful of possible white crushing or not passing BTB with Dynamic or Cinema settings.

I thought that Cinema 1 was the only setting that DID pass BTB. Did I understand this incorrectly?

Can you please explain this whte crushing?

I am using Cinema 2, and it looks great with move DVD's. However with WOTW, the opening scenes (when the kids are being dropped off with Tom Cruze) there is terrible white glow around the figures in the scene. I can't watch it. However I thought I had tried other vidio modes a well and they all looked the same.

Any ideas how I can fix this?

Can you please explain this whte crushing?

I am using Cinema 2, and it looks great with move DVD's. However with WOTW, the opening scenes (when the kids are being dropped off with Tom Cruze) there is terrible white glow around the figures in the scene. I can't watch it. However I thought I had tried other vidio modes a well and they all looked the same.

Any ideas how I can fix this?

That's the way the movie was shot. It's weird, but normal. Spielberg....

White crushing, in non-technical terms, is when certain shades of white are "crushed" or not being seen --- they are overtaken by bright white. In essence, you are losing detail.

I strongly recommend picking up Digital Video Essentials where you can check for this on the grayscale ramp patterns.

I don't recommend using 'gimmick' settings such as Dynamic or Cinema as they strive away from the ideal calibration of your display (if you've calibrated your display properly) and cause other potential video problems problems as mentioned. I'm only basing this on my experience with DVD players in general and Sony's current flagship player, the 9100ES which I'm currently using.

I thought that Cinema 1 was the only setting that DID pass BTB. Did I understand this incorrectly?
Cinema 1 passes BTB for me, but Standard did not. I don't think I really looked much at Cinema 2 or the Dynamic modes. I don't get white crush with Cinema 1 either. The gray scale ramps in DVE look excellent to me. On the white test pattern in the THX Optomizer on Finding Nemo, I can see all the white boxes with no problem.

Actual movies look pretty darn good too. ;)

Try the memory setting and tweak with AVIA or DVE to get the best picture. It should pass blacker than black and avoid white crush doing this and tweaking brightness or contrast as needed with the tests.

Be careful of possible white crushing or not passing BTB with Dynamic or Cinema settings.

I don't understand some of the video terms used. What is BTB or white crushing and how do I detect it? I only notice the image looks better, more vibrant and bright, than if I leave the DVD settings to standard and adjust the TV's brightness and color.

where can I get the DVE or avia disk-- or is there another one out there better to use? I need something not insanely in depth and user friendly. Thx!

Speaking to a Sony Representative over the phone, there is a fix for the DVP-NS70H with the image shrinking issue while using HDMI when it upconverts to 720pand 1080i. Apparently you have to send your NS70H for servicing and they will fix the issue making it the same as the NS75H. Since I bought the NS75H yesterday, and bargained with them over the phone. Sony is going to give me my money back for the DVPNS70H since I already purchased a 75H. Now, they won't do this for everyone since I am a special case. I called Sony the first week I had noticed this problem back in November and they keep phone records, record the calls, and documentation of everything. I was lucky enough to speak to a friendly upper level person who resolved the issue nicely and said he hadn't done a buyback in five years. So i'm happy to be the one in a million :). The only reason they agree to a buyback is because at the time, there was no fix for the issue, and I called them within one month of purchase. At the moment, there technicians that work on DVD players can resolve this problem for all DVP-NS70H owners. So call up and you can get a free upgrade to a similar "bios" or upconverting techno gobbledygook if that is the fix of the NS75H.

artimp -- From Amazon & other on-line vendors. I would recommend either AVIA "Guide to Home Theater" or the Sound & Vision "Home Theater Tune-Up". Both are geared to people not familiar with calibration and have instructions on the DVD (and they're both done by Ovation Multimedia). The S&V one is simpler, newer, and cheaper but doesn't have all of the (optional) advanced test patterns on AVIA.

DVE is much more advanced and is harder to navigate and use - limited, or no, instructions on the DVD.

thx a bunch Claus! Do I need the advanced test patterns?? or will the S&V HT tune up get me a very good picture on my Panny without having to do all the advanced stuff. Thx!

I still don't understand the color part of DVE? I don't know how to use the filter or how it works. Anybody care to explain?

Also, is it 100% verified, that you can still get digital (5.1DD or DTS) via a fiber optic cable directly to the receiver when running a HDMI to DVI cable for picture only?

Also, is it 100% verified, that you can still get digital (5.1DD or DTS) via a fiber optic cable directly to the receiver when running a HDMI to DVI cable for picture only?

Yes, 100%. Optical or Coax at least, not sure about fiber optic though ;)

Also, you can pick up an AVIA or DVE from half.com. That is where I got mine and at a savings over Amazon.

Also, no matter what setting you use, then you should still try to calibrate your set with an AVIA or DVE disk. And it is true, not everyone here mentions what set they have their Sony NS75 hooked to.

Me... I have a Pioneer 5060HD Plasma calibrated and I leave the Sony set at Standard and use my AVIA disk to calibrate the TV... Important to note that for each input you calibrate... so like me who has two dvd inputs, and a tv/cable input, I calibrated 3 times. And it is interesting to see the difference in calibrations between the two DVD players.... I was anyway... I figured they'd be close, but nope...

Anyway.... like I said before... for $129, this is a great player for me... and should last me till I save all those pennies for a 59avi or whatever comes in the future instead.

Other questions on calibration, btw, are answered pretty indepth in the Display Calibration section under Display Devices.

Yes, 100%. Optical or Coax at least, not sure about fiber optic though ;)
;)

Try the memory setting and tweak with AVIA or DVE to get the best picture. It should pass blacker than black and avoid white crush doing this and tweaking brightness or contrast as needed with the tests.

For me, the Memory setting does not pass blacker than black (did it for you?). Only Cinema 1. Go figure! :rolleyes:

LIY

My impression of the 75 after one week.

Equipment: 30HS420 Sony CRT. Crapped out previous player: Zenith DVB318. Movies played most: Bridge on the river Kiawi, Lawrenceof Arabia, October Sky, Shakespeare in Love.

Since my 318 crapped out I have to go by memory. The 75 was hooked up mainly by Audioquest HDMI but also had some component inputs. I auditioned two 75s.

Pros: I felt colors were more vivid and better definded on the 75 esp the first one the 2nd one was more of a toss up for some reason. Sound was better defined and fuller.

Cons: I kept getting this nagging feeling the image was a tad soft even when using the sharpness setting to 2. It's esp too soft with the ahrpness setting set to Off IMHO. My 318 seem by recollection to be a bit more sharper and have a more film-like quality. I also wondered if there was some other noise at play like EE or something with the 75.

I had to up the brightness and contrast level up quite a bit to get the black levels right (esp the brightness). Even then I wonder if blacks were still a bit inferior to my 318. My 318 settings were to just right in relation to the picture on my TV tuner.

Major flaw: I got a green discorloration around certain objections where edges are, or ruffes in clothing or white thin lines. It didn't happen all the time and with everything, but it pop up quite a bit and was much more annoying then any MB from the 318. The sharpness setting set to 1 or 2 seems to add to this green discloration as does 1080i, but it's still there to a much lesser extinct even at 480i with no sharpness over HDMI or component. This seems to be a major flaw and annoyannce and happen with both 75s I tried. I'm surpressed I seem to be the only one having this problem.

I'm taking it back and trying the Oppo which should be here on the 13th and I might try the S97.

I'm confused. If the 70H had all these problems, how come we didn't hear about them before? People raved about the 70H and the 75H is better than the 70H.

I've had the NS70H for seven months. It was a great player apart from the major flaw of AR being off by a few black bars when watching DVD's only under HDMi and 720p or above. When watching a widescreen movie that already had black bars, this was hardly noticeable on a large 50 inch screen.

I've had the NS75H for two days now (watched King Kong, Star Trek IV, Phantom of the Opera, and Ghostbusters) and I have to say it is a better picture quality wise than the NS70H and improves upon it in my opinion with a few more settings. Furthermore, it correctly displays the aspect ratio while playing 720p and 1080i under HDMI!!! :) HIP HIP HOORAY for fixing that problem Sony. Many speculate that they should have tested this product out before shipping it in the first place, and not deny that there was a problem for so long. But I digress.

The difference between me and some others making comments here is that I have a DLP TV which has no convergance problems and is always sharp. This allows me to focus on the DVD's upconverting abilities better than someone with a CRT can if they don't have it perfectly calibrated. Now, I have a DLP Samsung HLR5087W 50 inch screen that has no wobulation and displays very sharp images. Coupled with Samsungs Dnie a DVD coming from a standard DVD looks very good. Upconverting the image and it looks a little clearer and definately better.

This new DVD player has all the best of the NS70H picture qualitywise, adds a little flair with BNR and MNR while making the cinema 1 and 2 options a little brighter. The instruction manual is very easy to understand and I finally have the sound adjusted perfectly. In fact, it looks better than before. So if you hear people saying bad things about this DVD player, perhaps there TV isn't adjusted correctly for it, or they have seen something better side by side. As I said above, I am happy with Sony's decision to buy back my NS70H for the full cost, and now I have something better by Sony. All of you have to remember, the NS70H was a first generation product. They almost always need a bit of tweaking to get it right. This is no different and Sony has made a great DVD player that is a lot cheaper than anything else on the market and produces fine picture and sound.

Does the 75H still have the menu setting for 4x3 on a 16x9 TV like the 70H lets you choose pillarbox or stretched?
yes it does. same as 70h :)

Ah. So if I understand this right, this option will let you watch 4x3 DVDs, on a 16x9 TV, and not have them be forcibly stretched? Meaning, it can put black bars on the sides to 'fill out' the image?

I would like that. My old JVC player had that, but my Samsung player doesn't.

I'm still worried about burn-in, though.